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[ERROR] No.74571494 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Paizo Games General /pgg/


As an adventurer, what are your favored foods as you rest in the inn?

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Previous Thread: >>74458656

>> No.74571541

Have you ever played a mother? Not just a motherly character, but an actual mother? What role in the adventure did your character's children have?

>> No.74571641

Playing through Curse of extinction as a team of 3. A Fighter, Rogue, and Alchemist. I've adjusted the enconters themselves to match up to the party being down 1 player by making the encounters match up to the xp budget they should be for 3 players. But having hit the ringmaster's wagon, bardolph and the snakes we've come so damn close to death, especially with the poison effects. Does life get any better or we looking at an existential hell?

>> No.74571763


If it's any mercy, there's always more and more adjustments as needed or tossing the poor fools a friendly healer, at the least. NPC buddies can cover a few gaps...

>> No.74571824

I want to clarify 1e Vampire Hunter's Vampiric Focus ability
>The vampire hunter can have only one vampiric focus active at a time. Benefits from different vampiric foci do not stack with one another, including temporary hit points from multiple foci.
Does that mean that at 8th level, if I pick Vampiric Agility and Vampiric Call, I can't have both active when I activate Vampiric Focus?

>> No.74572048

How feasible would it be taking the NPC i gave them already(the fighter) and giving him some healer tools and Continual recovery?

>> No.74572102

I mean...maybe, but they still have to survive the sum duration of battle. Do they know, mechanically that their ally is a fighter. Or could you sneak in a cleric?

>> No.74572221

They know. The idea was to give them a meat wall. Going with the idea of it being a laborer who worked with their circus troop and picked up some medicinal skills taking care of the odd injury and whatnot. Should have gone with a champion really, but one player is a dhampir so positive energy healing is a nogo

>> No.74572370

I'm finding Fall of Plaguestone's pretty brutal without deliberately toning down just about every encounter as well

>> No.74572476

If your players are *almost always* fighting things above their level for any number of reasons (they're good at the game, there's a lot of them, the nature of the plot they pursue, GM just doesn't like hordes of peon enemies slowing the game, etc), is it fairly reasonable to houserule the Incapacitation trait as only being in effect for the strongest foe present? Is that too gamey?

So that if one of my players accidentally or intentionally builds to use Incap spells, this doesn't mean part of their character has been made fucking useless based entirely on something they have no awareness of and is largely behind the screen?

>> No.74572589

Incapacitation is effectively a hidden +10 to their saving throw. Consider making that a +5 or some other number to reduce the impact.

>> No.74572630

Not in an inn but, in a 1e pf fey campaign I would buy eggs and bacon from the local farmers market every week cus the other players wouldn't eat anything but "mush".

>> No.74572648

But it should be ordinary-effective on regular enemies. If your regular enemies are higher level, why should that affect whether abilities you have work at all? From a game standpoint, it's made for boss enemies, so you could just implement that more directly and say that's who it applies to.

>> No.74573960 [DELETED] 


>> No.74576464

Good choice you really cannot go wrong with the classics.

>> No.74577638

Has anyone ever played a Dungeon Keeper/Dwarf Fortress style game? I suppose it could work similar to Kingmaker Hexploration, but i'm instead considering doing it dungeon keeper like where the players encounter some sort of ancient creature (not necessarily evil) imprisoned under the earth.

they can then go around the overworld and recruit allies to join the settlement. you can do exploration by sending goblin/kobold/dwarf/gnome type mining teams you've brought in to your fold to make paths
i can remember 3e had some shit about mining speeds based on profession i think

>> No.74577906

Maybe it'd be best to just ignore the positive/negative healing rules for now and give them an actual healer/debuffer support. It's bad now and just going to get worse. It doesn't help a damphir is unintentionally a net negative for survival in this situation.

Keep the fighter around, but round out the group with the "white mage" to help them along. Maybe make it a friend of the fighter.

>> No.74578773

You could use an occult caster and have them use Soothe since it doesn't have the positive trait. A bard would fit right into any circus troop too.

>> No.74579377

You could also have a pocket Alchemist giving them a few infused elixirs of healing every morning (alchemical healing is neither positive nor negative). He doesn't even have to be fighting.

>> No.74580838

This isn't a terrible idea. if anything put it as a vague "financier" backing them for some unknown reason. It gives you easy plot hooks.

>> No.74581106

Thoughts on this 2e sheet mockup?

>> No.74581816

Extinction Curse is anything but solid. It sells itself as the circus AP but the circus moves to background extremely fast (past second book it's barely worth a mention) and tries to push a shitty environmentalist plot instead. Not only that, but the plot itself is extremely disjointed and poorly done. First book alone hass an extremely bad mystery hook with the killer springing outta the ground and yelling I KILLED HIM and mayor randomly walking up to the party and asking them to clean up the town despite the real troublemakers being elsewhere and the party knowing about it Not to mention the eponymous Extinction Curse doesn't even enter the picture until the sixth book. You'd have to seriously rework this module to run it.

>> No.74581842

I'm liking the efficient usage of area. The only small nitpicks I have, are that the special abilities and skills boxes feel a a touch small, for writing into the area allowed. Otherwise, good work!

>> No.74582179

Pretty good, but I have a few pieces of feedback:

I think the fonts are a little hard to read
Something about the boxes makes it look cluttered and hard to read at a glance
I want a place to put the total iterative attack bonuses so I don't have to do the math in my head every time
I think you only really need 2 melee attacks and 1 or 2 ranged attack sections
Taking away the attack sections leaves room for more abilities

But it's pretty good. Thanks for sharing.

>> No.74582235

Thanks for the feedback, this is just a draft working on. The second page is gonna be dedicated to feats, gear and special abilities. I'll mess with this more because I like this game a lot so far, but can't stand the default sheet.

>> No.74582302

Small nitpick : you should probably make the Armor box have a minus rather than a plus in front of it, given that it's a penalty.

>> No.74582538

No, the point is to force them to be prepared in higher level spots without tying the DC to the spell level or baking in level considerations to the heightening scheme. Blasting spells have to continuously heighten to maintain relevance in a world where HP increases with level, but things that apply conditions otherwise don't because Paralyze is always Paralyze. Incapacitation puts them all on the same demand for heightening, but also fucks over using them on bosses to cheese the action economy disparity.

If I'm at level 7, my first level Burning Hands is still shit against a level 6 mook, and so too should my incapacitation spells if I prepare them in first level slots. Some utility spells get to buck the trend (Grease), but not all of them, clearly.

>> No.74582671

Which archetype would you find best for bard? We just hit level 2 and GM is considering adding free archetype variant rule.
Is familiar master worth it? I started as gnome with familliar from feat, so far it was useless or forgotten

>> No.74583862

Good point. I'm gonna fix this later.
Any suggestion on the fonts? Trying to find one that has a fantasy atheistic but readable

>> No.74584092

My party had a TPK yesterday in the hermitage and i thing that we will start edgewatch. I only read till the end of the second book and i need to say that without the circus the history will be probably better.

>> No.74584437

>without the circus the history will be probably better.
Without the circus you get your bogstandard save-the-world shit that amounts to touching X macguffins and proceeding to final boss.

>> No.74585253

Calibri is always a nicely readable font.

>> No.74585424


Here again

I forgot to add what I like best about the sheet: how it uses most of the page. And I like that it has room for item bonuses.

After taking another look what might help with readability is to have underlines instead of boxes.

>> No.74586863

I was thinking of actually taking the boxes, and having the text inside the box at around 50% opacity. I'll post something later.

>> No.74587908

I was actually going to suggest leaving only the bottom and left edges of each box, but that works too.

>> No.74587926

There's no place to put a bonus to initiative

>> No.74588063

Isn't initiative in 2e mostly based on Perception unless another stat can be used?

>> No.74588155

There's a significant amount of effects that provide a bonus to just whatever you used for Initiative, the most common being a 1st level general feat and a 7th level Fighter class feature, so it's actually more broadly applicable than, say, the Legendary tickboxes for attack and armor, which are high level things that only one class each receives. I wouldn't cut those out either, so I'd put in an initiative bonuses box.

>> No.74588178

Yeah, initiative is usually a stealth or perception roll.

>> No.74588240

Correct. Which then receives initiative bonuses from Incredible Initiative, an automatic Fighter increase at 7th level, certain Survival feats, the initial Scout feature, at least 1 spell, or even penalty from mutagen use. These are initiative modifier effects, not part of Perception or Stealth. They don't go anywhere else except Initiative.

>> No.74589386


Thinking of running a Starfinder horror game in the future, but I wanted a couple of comfy sessions for the party to bond. Fear of loss only matters when you care about the characters, etc. Does being sent to fight and bring back an SRO who accidentally got programmed with videogame information as a mistake sound fun for a first level mission?

Planning for it to be obstacle course based, to run through how flanking, aoos and skill checks work, while having a boss fight being the SRO having arranged the final warehouse area into a streetfighter stage, complete with music, to attack the party.

>> No.74590181

Sounds pretty dang cool. Just play the SRO up as a terminator. It never slows, it cannot be stopped. Keep it going to plot levels of silliness.

>> No.74590963

Looks good but obviously made in excel.

I would make some images/etc in paint (pixel perfect) to put arround numbers. A full box for normal numbers, a [ ] for things you add, () for proficency bonuses...

that way you know the shape you are looking for when you need a bonus.

>> No.74591371

Please add a space specifically marked for anal circumference

>> No.74591791

Familiars are good for out-of-combat utility, but for in-combat stuff, you're gonna want Beastmaster. That said, Celebrity and Dandy are both solid choices for Bard, as are any of the CHA casting multiclass archetypes.

>> No.74592029

When making a new campaign, how far ahead do you write up/prep for? Do you prep all necessary base game info and up to the first encounter, do you prep as much of the game as possible before the first session, or what? I'm trying to set up my game for my friends, DMing is usually really hard for me and I'm having trouble figuring out a good balance on prep-work to game time.

>> No.74593139

I prep 3/4 noteworhty "hooks", with some variety,

"cave nearby has hobgoblins, two guards have gone awol, string of thefts recently, rich noble has made new strange friends"

Then I flesh out some basic encounters, but that's not too hard with the online encounter builders/treasure builders.

Once I get a feel for the "type" of adventure the players want, then I make a grand conspiracy involved in it, stat out some big players, and figure out what the big players want.

Give each big player a small reason to hate the other big players, maybe something that the players could use as leverage. Give them all a big weakness to, such as a family, in debt to a loan shark, old/dying while owing their soul to a devil, etc.

>> No.74593265

How does one best make a "balanced" amorphous, slimy, or otherwise gooey race for 1e? What traits would be too much to give to a playable race?

>> No.74593854

Trying to build the ultimate worshiper of Gorum but I've run into an issue. I figured the truest of the Gorumite would be a level 20 fighter. No time to spend not learning the art of fighting? Praying? What's that pussy shit. But it would make sense to be a Sentinel PrC and actually get rewarded by Gorum for his efforts. Which makes more sense?

>> No.74594181

Our party desperately needs a striker. 1e and I'd strongly prefer to play a martial. Any suggestions? Level 7, was thinking UnRogue.

>> No.74594276

Slayer is good

>> No.74594443

Both are good, especially since Gorum offers good boons and his obediance is very simple and easy. Though the question you must ask yourself is if you're willing to give up on Advanced Armor/Weapon Training for the duration of the PrC. On the one hand you'll geg really strong at using a Greatsword, but on the other hand you'll be missing out on skill versatility.
Also, regardless I recommend taking the Divine Weapon Technique for Gorum, as being able Vital Strike on a charge is pretty good.

>> No.74594904

for 1e it's actually a warpriest.

>> No.74595939

Take the arsenal chaplain archetype if you go this route, it opens up some fun stuff thanks to weapon training.

>> No.74596514

It depends a little bit on what kind of game you want to run, but something I usually recommend is having an idea of how it will end. Starting games and "making the end up as I go along" has never worked out for me. I don't mean you should have one fixed ending with no possible way to deviate from it, but I do mean you should know who the BBEG is, what they're doing, and why they're doing it. Those three things will help you adapt and improvise on the fly when the need comes up. And if you have smaller adventures inside your campaign, that's just a matter of figuring out the who-what-why for successively smaller BBEG, like inverted matryoshka dolls. Also, just to be clear, these BBEGs don't have to literally be people, they can be whatever is opposing the party in a given section of the adventure. The reason it's important to do this is because it grants you a clearer understandings of the motives of who/whatever is opposing the party at any given time.

>> No.74597441

Does anybody have any advice on extending the mosquito witch after the written scenario? I have some ideas on what to do for the witch herself, but don't know how to let the players get there in the first place. How would you run the initial investigation?

>> No.74598424

Locals are getting attacked by mosquito swarms, maybe the witch is gathering up blood for some sort of evil outsider summoning? Have them try to figure out the source of the swarms?

>> No.74600737

What your favorite Archetype in 2e so far? I'm a big fan of duelist for a swashbuckler

>> No.74602015

Beastmaster is looking really fun for ranger!

>> No.74602787

Actually made it in illustrator. I'll take it as a compliment for the alignment being spot on lol.

>> No.74604200

I also like the idea of snare trapper for alchemist. Specifically if your DM lets you invent some custom snares.

>> No.74606230

After taking some feedback, here is version 2. Just wondering what you guys thought again. Thanks.

>> No.74606256

Forgot to attach it.

>> No.74606279

How's the trapper work out for them? Does it give the poor alchemist somethi8ng to do in combat?

>> No.74607553

Too many boxes.

Take top left. looking at the "wisdom boost" and you are lost in a sea or rectangles with no idea which ones are the ones you actually care aboutr.

Bold the modifiers ones, do something.

I would get rid of one ranged and one melee attack. give more room for abilities/ability descriptions/page numbers.

you also need a lot more space for HP damage and shield damage.

The right side of languages isn't aligned.

>> No.74607916

It's much better, but there is still a bit of clutter and other problems remaining.

The air around the text is super tiny which makes the whole thing much harder to read. Try to create more open space, it does wonders for readability.

Lots of the boxes aren't aligned properly still, and imo they are too big. You could probably just make all the strikes into generic strikes and let the player write if its a ranged attack or not. The skills have the info about what to put in the boxes in the box itself, why not do the same with the strikes.

The style of your + marks are all over the place, and the ones by the skills are minuscule, but the worst offender is the one by the shield so you can probably just drop that one. You'll never have a stat or item mod of multiple numbers so you could reduce the size of those boxes too. Damage types could be reduced to just a single letter too. It also feels redundant to have "Proficiency" written over half the proficiency boxes when stuff like Saves and Perception doesn't have them. The text size of the stat names under ability scores is so tiny you'd need hawkeyes to read it if it's ever getting printed, so you can consider removing the full name and just DEX and the like or increasing the size.

The sizes of the header texts are all over the place, I like the size of the "Weapon and Armor Proficiency" the most since the other ones are a bit too big and distracting. Speaking of that block, the whole block just feels very loose compared to the rest of the rather rigid setup you have so it feels very out of place.

Try to make more of the same type of headers more uniform, the stats like "STR" and the saves like "REFLEX" look way too different from let's say "Unarmored" or "Marital".

Lastly, personally I would maybe move the lore to the bottom of the skills and maybe add another one or two. Some classes like bard get a special lore skils which would instantly fill both of the lore slots.l

>> No.74608568

>You sit down for food at the inn, what do you order?
Why do GMs ask this inane shit of PCs in the first place? There aren't even that great a variety of things to get at an inn in the 1700s or whatever, most likely they only prepared 1-2 types of food in each evening. A GM's act of asking this shit tells me that the GM is currently frantically scribbling notes to fill out the rest of the session as we speak.

>> No.74608598

Out of all of the non-class ones, I think Golem Crafter is the one that is most interesting and cool.

>> No.74608659

Where is that? Is it in 2e?

>> No.74608768

Sorry it's Golem Grafter, not Crafter. My mistake. Basically you start replacing your body parts with cool golem ones. It's even pretty mechanically good.

>> No.74608860

>Why do GMs ask this inane shit of PCs in the first place?
I get tossed a stupid PC question like "What's the shopkeeper's wife's name?" or "Did I have any dreams when we rested last?" at least once every other session. The least they could do is think about what their character might want to eat, once in a while.

>> No.74608909

But as I said it's a nonsense question to begin with. They should be telling you what they have, not asking you to guess what 1 thing they are currently serving.

>> No.74609246

It's only a nonsense question if I the DM autistically figured out the menu beforehand. The whole point of asking my players what they want to eat is to get them engaged in the worldbuilding and their characters, even with trivial shit like meals.

If my players sidle up to a tavern and ask what they're serving, I have to come up with N food items that they may want and list them off. If they just come out and say "MEAT!", either on their own or at the request of the waiter/barkeep/madam, then I save time describing the bread, get to spend more time describing the lamb, and establish that the party are savage carnivores who don't eat their veggies.

I know Quantum Ogres are a tabletop boogieman but I suppose my taverns have Quantum Menus.

>> No.74609317

All this talk of food reminds me of the Feast generator that Orteil, the guy that made Cookie Clicker, made relatively recently:

Maybe use that in your games if someone asks what's on the menu.

>> No.74609441

Depends on the group I guess but I mix this shit in just to make sure everyone's awake because otherwise it's just me shuffling everyone along and the same two people only making decisions for everyone, and honestly a solid half the time it leads off on an interesting tangent so it generally pays off.

>> No.74609732

You meet a werewolf wearing silver fullplate and holding an unholy symbol of Zon-Kuthon. He probably has an erection. Your DM might be a furry.

>> No.74609903

I help pry him out of that torture device and tell him not to do that to himself ever again.

>> No.74610195

you also need a lot more space for HP damage and shield damage.

The right side of languages isn't aligned.

The language thing is fixed. As for the strikes, I wanted to keep the same number as the default sheet. How would you increase the size for the HP options

That plus symbol for the shield was actually the wrong font.

I see what you're saying about the headers stuff.

>> No.74610500

Bruh if he's a Zon-Kuthon worshipper he's probably just trying to get off, leave him alone.

>> No.74610903

How does Pathfinder 1e's Focused Discipline stamina point combat trick work?

>Familiarity with the military traditions of your homeland inspires uncommon valor in you.

>Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on all saving throws against fear effects. Whenever a fear effect targets you and fails to affect you (either because of a successful saving throw or because of immunity to fear), you gain a +2 morale bonus on attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, and CMB checks against the creature that attempted to use the fear affect on you for 1 round.

>Combat Trick
>Source PPC:WMH
>Note If using the optional Stamina Pool rules, the following trick may be used with this feat.
>Combat Trick: You can spend 2 stamina points in order to gain the benefit of Focused Discipline for 1 round as if you had been targeted by a fear effect that failed to affect you.

As far as I can tell, it should be trivial to spend those stamina points throughout three or four rounds of combat, so it is a two-feat investment for a +2 morale bonus to attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, and CMB checks throughout the entire fight.

On the other hand, normally, Focused Discipline grants the bonus only against a specific creature. How, then, does the stamina point effect work?

>> No.74611123

The stamina use lets you act as if any creature you want had targeted you with a fear effect. You can choose any creature and gain a +2 against them.

You have to keep in mind though that 1) the effect only lasts for 1 round, so you have to spend 2 stamina each round to get +2 to your rolls per creature, and 2) if you run out of stamina you become fatigued until you spend at least a minute out of combat.

>> No.74611335

[citation needed]

>> No.74611366

What the hell is that "Grilled Enoki Mushroom" dish? Enoki mushrooms are tiny stringy mushrooms used in Miso Soup and such, that looks like a completely different shroom.

>> No.74611413

Between fighter (mutation warrior) and paladin (oath of vengeance) and assuming a high point buy, would you say that there is a clear winner between them in terms of overall power level and usefulness as beatsticks, or would you say that they are roughly comparable?

>> No.74611427

idk but they're not from any boss specifically it looks like

>> No.74611538

Messing around with this just as an image (sorry), this is what anons mean about creating whitespace in the document.

It has 2 purposes: reducing the visual feeling of clutter, and leading your eyes directly to the important parts that aren't whitespace. In this version of your sheet, anything that is not directly used in play does not receive a complete box. Those are just things that lead you into the boxes.

There are also a bunch of little things that are nitpicks here but are important, like room to put in each level of multiple attack penalty on Strikes, putting STR/DEX instead of STR for all Strikes (which you still have on ranged, and doesn't universally apply to melee), making sure have a place to put other damage additions that will get added onto Strikes (everyone will be adding Shock/weap spec/etc to their weapons later and other abilities will also add things to damage), and mentioning a place to put range for weapons.

If you genericize Strikes (which you have no reason not to, all the data points were the same), you have 4 slots for it, which is enough for even the most prolific weapon-users I've ever seen use.

Meanwhile there needs to be space for special actions, which neither you nor the original sheet have, and I think it's a big oversight. In PF2, every single class there is will be providing special actions, many of which become your bread and butter that you use constantly (especially for noncasters). It's silly not to put them here, so I did.

Last, I noticed you typoed INTV in the Arcana skill

>> No.74611551

If I have to make sure my players are awake I generally have a roundtable to see what players want in a game and whether we should continue, not adjust whether I ask them what meals their characters have or what length their toenails are.

>> No.74612182

As a paladin, you have healing,smiting,spells and face skills as perks along with other miscellaneous bonuses. Assuming the average neutral/evil baddie spread, you are solid in most games. The only realisj downside is having to spread your stats a bit thinner...

Mutation warrior, by itself is pretty nice as a focused beatstick with access to self flight. Pick up a two hander and SMASH! Look at supporting this route with another archetype or maybe so ething like VMC barbarian to further that focus on smooshing things.

What sounds funner to you?

>> No.74612489

But which is more powerful overall?

>> No.74612579

Powerful at what?

The fighter can smash real good. But that's about all they can do.

The paladin doesn't deal as much damage as the fighter. But they bring more to the party than a beat stick.

Between those 2, the paladin sounds more useful.

>> No.74613366

What sort of power do you wanr out of this? What sort of gameplay?

>> No.74613915

looking for starship operation manuel for starfinder, anyone has it ?

>> No.74613917

Actually, this brings up a good question.

Does anyone know any books that actually deal with cooking/crafting with monster parts? I know therer's the one archetype for Blacksmith and some scattered Dragoncrafter stuff, but I want more and I remember seeing it at one point.

>> No.74613956

>Akashic Guru (Ex)

>The danava pillar is connected to the Akashic Record. It gains a +20 racial bonus on all Knowledge checks, and it can expend 1 point of mythic power to recall its previous self from the Akashic Record without spending an action. If it does so, it is restored to full hit points, regains all uses of its spell-like abilities, and loses all conditions and spells currently affecting it (beneficial or detrimental); it does not regain any uses of mythic power. Since the ability does not require an action, the danava pillar can use this ability even when it can’t take actions, as the universe itself attempts to prevent the threatened destruction of the pillar.

If a danava pillar is mythic rank 10 and has ten uses of mythic power each day, then does one have to burn through eleven iterations of the danava pillar of the Akashic Record to finally take them down?

>> No.74614028

It's a question of system mastery. The paladin has self healing, condition removal, immunity, spells, sick saves, smite evil, and either a mount or weapon buff. The Mutation Warrior has double the feats, AWT options, and mutagen. Most players don't know how to leverage those feats in a way that actually makes the fighter compete with a paladin, and you're bound to fail if you try to emulate a paladin's durability.

If you default to taking Weapon Focus, Skill Focus, and Dodge, then stay away from Fighter.

>> No.74614385

Making a Ratfolk Bonded Investigator. The server I might be joining uses Elephant in the Room rules so I get free weapon finesse, how should I build them? I visualize them as a merchant + doctor(selling services for shiny objects) and was thinking between natural attacks, Bladed Brush with a Glaive or TWF with a tailblade. Leaning on probably not doing the natural attacks one because biting your enemy is kind of unhygienic

>> No.74614996

Depends on
>If you can stack archetypes
>What 3PP systems are allowed
>What gear they have available
>Level in question
>What 1PP content is allowed
>What subsystems are in use (ie. stamina etc.)

If you want a Fighter to perform at its peak you really need to have a bunch of system mastery.

>> No.74615141

Yes, and each time one of your party does Yin and Yang immediately turns that individual into a baby with 0 class levels, and can only be turned back into your original comrade with a Wish/Miracle.

So I hope you've got like, 10 Wishes ready.

>> No.74615305

I suddenly wonder if Fighters are truly a good class for beginners or not considering that, they are simple at a glance but...

>> No.74615698

In Pathfinder 1e, what are the ideal methods of being able to threaten all squares with a two-handed reach weapon, at all times? That is, a spiked gauntlet will not cut it; it absolutely must be the reach weapon itself, and it absolutely must be at all times, rather than toggling reach on and off.

>> No.74615974

Not the best answer, but grabbing a scorpion whip and taking the whip mastery line can get you what you'd like.

>> No.74615998

Would having four arms and simultaneously wielding two of the same reach weapon but one with the reach on and the other with it off be sufficient?

>> No.74616423

play a kasatha^^

>> No.74617070

Anyone see any cool 3rd party stuff for 2e? I like the look of legendary kineticist.

>> No.74617858

Use the mutation figher, grab a bow. If you build it right it wins.

>> No.74618130

It only Yin and Yangs you if it would drop you to 0 HP. Sure, you have to grind through nearly 6000 HP worth of Danava, but it doesn't automatically baby you.

>> No.74618391

And they only gain one of those abilities to begin with

>> No.74619882

>If you build it right it wins.
In what category? I'm having trouble seeing how the fighter would beat the paladin in damage if they're both archers, considering how rigid the bow meta is. How would you build a lv 7/12 fighter to compete with smite damage?

>> No.74620801

Fighter-specific feats are one way.

>> No.74621536

did the APG make alchemist not suck ass? it feels like the class was sacrificed so that the rest of 2E can largely be really well thought out by killing one of the few good things 1E did

>> No.74621746

It gave some overall nice new items, and some decent new feats like healing bombs, but overall, no, since it did nothing to fix the core issues of Alchemist.
It did give us an example of a good int-based martial with Invest though, so you can take ideas from it for an Alch homebrew.
However, I feel like Paizo realised how badly they overvalued alchemical items seeing how the Investigator gets full martial proficiencies, double skill feats/increases and decent if situational class features, while still having partial access to alchemical items.
Which means we will probably see a fixed Alchemist eventually.
>it feels like the class was sacrificed so that the rest of 2E can largely be really well thought out
It actually was somewhat like that. The current rushed alch was the price to pay for getting rid of the idiotic Resonance system to which playtest alch was tied.

>> No.74621812

>It did give us an example of a good int-based martial with Invest though,
with what now?

>> No.74621831


>> No.74621936

>did the APG make alchemist not suck ass?
No. But the new investigator class is basically the alchemist done right.

>> No.74622500

does anyone else struggle a lot more in making character concepts in 2e? Maybe I just need to play more buy I struggle a lot in picking how to build anything now.

Let's say I want to build a knowledge master. Do I go enigma bard or investigator? Do I go lote master or is that just doubling up on enigma bard? There's just so many ways of doing everything I freeze up

>> No.74622715

This is probably the most helpful anyone has been on this project, thanks. I will do something like this.
Does anyone know the font that is used for headers in the book?

>> No.74623071

Does anyone actually like the Andorans and their nationally employed and sponsored terrorists?

>> No.74624402

Man you know it'd be absolutely wild if Kanela turned out to be canon in Rise of the Jade Regent.

>> No.74624404

Personally, I like having the choice between multiple ways of making a playable character out of a concept, since it gives you more of a choice over the mechanics.
But I can see how choice paralysis can set in.

>> No.74624672

Fighter is kind of a misleading class. It looks simple, has simple features, and its archetypes look like simple replacements. However, if you want to play a fighter beyond power attacking on a charge or just full attacking with a bow etc. You really have to know mechanics. Which advanced armor trainings are worth taking, which advanced weapon trainings, what is in each weapon group, are the alternate favored class options viable, what archetypes replace useful abilities/or otherwise downgrade the main chassis, what archetypes straight up buff the fighter, what archetypes can stack, how item mastery can be exploited, what combat stamina does, is it worth it to dip into other classes or prestige classes for the build you want etc.

A higher end fighter can look like an entirely different class than the stereotypical depiction of a fighter. Take how Paizo stats Valeros, and compare it to say, a Fighter (Eldritch Guardian/Mutation Warrior) using combat stamina, barroom brawler, abundant tactics. item mastery feats, and is properly geared. They don't even look like the same class anymore based on what they can do.

>> No.74625288

How would you, personally, rank the 2e classes you've played from most fun to least fun?

>> No.74625337

I can't remember the name but there's a raccoon-people race that has a ton of heritages and feats AND comes packaged with complete firearm rules and options for classes to use them (without necessarily being the raccoon race).

It was complete (and will probably be comparable in number of options for races to the common ones for several books), thorough and expands the content available to everyone by its inclusion. A+.

>> No.74625474

Saturday game of Rise of the Jade Regent is having their final boss fight right now, incidentally.

The first great Circus is drawing to a close.

>> No.74626304

Is it bad that I'm somewhat thankful for the raw system mastery required to squeeze the most out of the fighter?

>> No.74626830

So I'm a new pathfinder player. Chose to be the voluntary healbot as a cleric of Desna because the party had a wizard who was also a worshiper of Desna. 3 or 4 play sessions later, the wizard lies dead at my feet because of an inter-player conflict. Basically the wizard insulted a dwarf and not-so subtly implied that dwarves are known for being cowardly and slovenly.

Then the entire party turns to me and says that I'm the party leader now. Apparently the wizard had a GM-introduced item that designated that person an active agent of the god they worship. So because I worship Desna, I have to be party leader now.

I just wanted to heal people now I'm in charge. Wtf should I know? I feel like I've been handed a shotgun and told to learn how to use it by doing some old fashioned soldiering. Its been several months since then and I've learned a lot, but I feel like I'm not learning it fast enough
I just wanted to heal people now I'm picking missions and trying to juggle our party reputation and cash inflow. somebody please stop me

>> No.74626947

You're a man now anon, responsibility is never truly won through force, but carried as a burden by those deemed worthy. If you have not been ousted as a fraud, then you have proven yourself full of competence.

>> No.74627129

That would make me feel good... if multiple players havent already gone through 3 characters since I started. apparently this is normal tho and my first several play sessions were unusual for their lack of player character death.
The GM is a bit of an old fashioned sort where he likes to gear the challenge to be high. Mostly fair I think, but wtf do I know I'm the newest player.

to give an idea, my party is 6 people all level 6 or 7s (we start at lvl 6 cause its such a long run campaign). So I took a mission to get some money for the party and pay off some debts for a resurrection and remove Feeblemind. The wizard wants us to collect alchemical ingredients from FIRE GIANTS. and little babby me thought "oh its like one of those WoW quests. This will be okay!"

last play session 2 players died. first time so many died without inter-player violence being involved. Somebody stop me before I get us all killed

Thankfully I do have a plan. one of the players rolled up another cleric so between the two of us we have enough casts of Stone Shape to put a giant 30 feet into the ground for all of us to take turns hitting. but still wtf man

>> No.74627158

Just to be a bit of a smartass, theres this
>Frodo: "I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened."
>Gandalf: "So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.”

Well, theres nothing wrong with going with the flow anon. Since you are new and it seems you are not that experienced in tabletop in general, who knows, it can be a learning experience. Your party seems rather chill if not much drama has ensued over that so I'll just say this, its okay to make mistakes. And remember, delegation is a thing, if you feel you cant handle a thing, find somebody in your party who can handle it better and dont handle everything by yourself.

>> No.74627232

That actually sounds pretty fun. It also sounds like players would have died no matter what mission you choose. So I wouldn't worry about it.

>> No.74627264

Its funny you mention Gandalf. Cause of the artifact, I actually have a mortal boss that i answer to when I'm acting as an agent of Desna.
I have SO MUCH sympathy for Gandalf in this scene https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxmzuNkk4HI
since I've had to play that out once or twice with the NPC in charge of the league of god agents

>> No.74627273

>Fire Giants
>At level 6

Guess nobody in your party has any idea how much of a fucking bad idea that is. And as a reminder, its okay to go ask other players of what they think of a situation

>> No.74627309

Depends. Do you think the fighter should have a higher upper limit? Like should they be able to scale quadratically like a caster if given a high level of system mastery.

>> No.74627328

That seems like a good idea really anon, after all, Casters scaling quadratically is already a bit dependent on system mastery to begin with because they need to know which spells is for what, how to combo them, the proper metamagic spells and which spells is crap and which is not, why not grant that to Martials too?

>> No.74627361

At the very least if you doom your party completely, it makes for a lulzy story to be told to the next generation of idiot adventurers.

>> No.74627445

Everyone in the party is giving me that impression. That no matter what I do, the GM will find a way to kill SOMEONE, only time will tell who dies next. For someone who just wanted to help keep the other players alive when I started, this kind of hurts my soul a little bit. But its still fun and wow this is the first time since college classes that I felt like I had to work my brain over for a solution

Pathfinder makes me feel like I'm solving genuinely hard problems for the first time in years. Neat. but still.... can I do better?

>> No.74627483

Depends - are you playing PF 2e, and if so, do you want to lean heavily into the leader role, the healer role or something else?

>> No.74627511

My group's down to a GM and 3 players. Can anyone share an experience if an eldritch scoundrel can work as a utility supplement for an actual arcane caster?
We have a paladin and a druid that survived the fight my attempt at an eldritch knight didn't. I've had problems with magus in the past because they just don't get the useful diversity of a wizard until much much much later. But ES gets wizard spells. So they can cast protection from energy and mage armor.

>> No.74627573

The gm is interested in "eventually" doing a 2e game, but he already planned with someone else that the other person would GM the next game after this one "concludes"
How you conclude a multi-year long campaign where its easier to just introduce new level 6 players than level them up with the party the old fashioned way.... I have no idea.

I feel like I'm riding on a flying carpet, but I have no points in ride, fly or anything else related.

>> No.74627586

oh and I guess for now I should be leaning into the leader role. I have no idea how long this 2nd cleric will last tho

>> No.74627857

Sure. You'll miss out on the 7-9th level options but you can always grab UMD.

Alternative classes for good utility choices are the Skald, Bard, Investigator or Alchemist.

>> No.74627912

It's official, bitches

Rise of the Jade Runedork is finished

>> No.74627918

After 3 and a half years of play. The Original App Circus Games have completed.

Ameiko is on the throne, The Jade Regent has been defeated. And the Sudden Appearance of Runelord Kazroug trying to fuze the timelines to achieve ultimate power has been thwarted.

>> No.74627944

Thats nice and all
But Molthune Knights when tho?

>> No.74627964

When The Great Second App Circus Begins.

>> No.74627993

>tfw my internet is too shit for online games, so I'll never be able to enjoy app circus without the constant reminder of how pointless the attempt would be

>> No.74628028


Dragon Game 1 and 2, Rise of the Jade Regent Friday and Saturday, CotST... all finished.
Blingmaker is still running... but that's Blingmaker.

>> No.74628052

Mom's tits are way fatter than that.

>> No.74628076

She's keeping them small as a measure of politeness.

>> No.74628135

Since I had only just realized I cant actually take Magic Warrior with Kensai as a Magus, which one to drop? I can still pull off the mask + secret identity part + having been educated at Magaambya part even as a Kensai no?

>> No.74628155

>I can still pull off the mask + secret identity part + having been educated at Magaambya part even as a Kensai no?
Indeed, there are even feats dedicated to doing so. Magic Warrior offers you nothing, while Kensei is a good critfisher, so keep the Kensei

>> No.74628167

pf2e, if I wanted to build an investigator who used str instead of dex as his second highest stat would that be viable? the idea would be to take medium armour and be able to do somewhat more consistent damage thanks to having a good str score.

>> No.74628227

Alright, I think I'll do that. Though, Magic Warrior does offer stuff like being able to fly for quite some time at level 3(if you use a bird mask) and has a few anti scrying benefits and later on(a point where you might not even reach), Druid spells. Still I get your point

I suppose if I want to, I can later take Magaambyan Arcanist PrC if I so wish to pursue that flavor. At least I feel I am not locked out of other spell lists when I have put skill points in UMD which I can boost later.

>> No.74628283

Weapon-wise, you need an Agile or Finesse weapon to take advantage of Devise a Stratagem and Strategic Strike. You can use a non-Finesse Agile weapon and not really lose much; all weapons that meet this criteria are 1d4 or 1d6 weapons, and the only "better" option is the Spiked Chain, which is 1d8 Finesse non-Agile, but also uncommon.

Armor-wise, you're going to need to dip into Sentinel Archetype for medium armor proficiency, or your shitty Dex is gonna hurt your AC.

>> No.74628343

armour wise, can't I be human and take general training and grab the armour proficiency feat? and I don't really care about having a 1d8 weapon, i'm more wanting a consistent +3 to damage.

>> No.74628371

Finesse is just a way to partially mitigate loss from being high Dex low Str. Agile doesn't interact with attribute choice at all. You can totally just pump Str and hit people with a Finesse weapon while ignoring that trait. You will hit just as accurately and hit harder than a Dex-pumped character using it, no loss.

>> No.74628378

>armour wise, can't I be human and take general training and grab the armour proficiency feat?
Yes and if you're starting at first level that's what you want to do. However when you get expert proficiency with light armor at 13th level it won't scale, so by then you'll need the Sentinel Archetype.

>> No.74628414

it doesn't scale at all? thats sort of peculiar. is there anyway other than that archetype to get scaling armour prof?

>> No.74628469

Nope, as of right now if you want scaling armor outside of what your class gives you you need the archetype

>> No.74628645

interesting. would it break anything to have a houserule that makes armour gained from feats scale automatically with your class based armour?

>> No.74628683

Not really.

>> No.74628698

It's certainly a buff to otherwise fairly garbage feats, and invalidates some feats like Diverse Armor Expert. Not that anyone really wants to take those feats.

All armor except the heaviest armor is functionally +5 AC before runes, with optimal stat distribution, and plate trades 1 more AC for -5 speed (a shitty trade if you ask me). If you ask me, you might as well rule that there's Unarmored and Armored proficiency, and let people wear whatever the hell they want.

>> No.74628756

Armor's balance factor in 2e is in being able to achieve something around max-Dex AC with less or no Dex. Its caps ensure it is never more than +1 above a perfect-Dex character.

>> No.74628868

An unarmored character will get +5 AC for +5 worth of stats (20 Dexterity).
Anyone in Light or Medium armor will get +5 AC for +4 worth of stats, assuming you're just meeting the Strength requirements (10 Strength + 18 Dexterity for Leather, up to 16 Strength + 12 Dexterity for a Breastplate).
Anyone in Heavy armor will get +6 AC for +4 worth of stats, but pay -5 speed (or a feat tax to remove it) for that extra point of AC.

Bulk is negligible, because its always matched by the bulk limit you gain by meeting the strength requirement. A heavy armor wearer and a light armor wearer have effectively the same free bulk available to them, assuming optimal stats.

Thus, the balance comes down to cost, specific magic items, sleepability/donning times, armor specializations, and the rare Bulwark trait for heavy armor wearers.

Even pure dexterity characters will never get +6 or +7 to their AC before runes, because you have to wear at least Explorer's Clothing to carry potency runes.

>> No.74628931

I'm saying armor is a character's excuse not to invest in Dexterity. A character with high Strength with armor gets to be better at melee combat than a Dex character and never needs to pay a Dex tax to survive it. That's why it is worth class features, it is not a null trade to have it.

>> No.74628999

I note that the best Heavy Armor in 2e tends to give more AC overall than lighter armors even with Dex taken into account. What helps is that Full Plate also makes up for your lower Dex too by giving you a bonus too to a defensive stat which would normally be lower if you dumped Dex

>> No.74629047

How do I optimize for pinning down cute fey and outsiders in Pathfinder 2?

>> No.74629062

Yes, but you have to be a Dwarf (already slow, plus a feat) or a Hellknight Armiger (two feat tax) to not take a 5 foot speed penalty. I'm not sure why I'd ever wear Fullplate over a Breastplate. I don't value the +1 AC over getting my action economy randomly fucked by being a hair too slow to reach an enemy.

>> No.74629158

Fighter. Anyone can have high Athletics and Strength, but THEY get to Stun people who they've grabbed, and in the process or doing any of these Presses that contribute to their grab combos, they roll Strikes. Fighter Strikes are the best there are, and that means the highest critical chance, enabling a Hammer or Flail group user to place your cute fey prey on the ground entirely in the process, losslessly. Even attempting to get up is a window for further disaster against a Fighter because of your AoO feature.

Honorable mention to Barbarian, though. Furious Bully actually gets them the highest pure Athletics checks, for rolling to get them into Restrained, and Barbarian with deer antler instinct attacks have *reach* grapples that they can enhance with Handwraps of Mighty Blows.

I hope this helps your feyfuck adventuring anon

>> No.74629164

Alternatively, be a Half-Elf with Nimble Elf or just Elf.

>> No.74629191

Based on feedback, I think I mostly got it. Thanks for your help, I'm gonna finish the last two pages later.

>> No.74629219

There's also the option of using an armored skirt with medium armor. It is mostly the same as having heavy armor, but what's different about it is that an 18 Strength 0 Dex character can still reach +5 AC that only has a -5 speed penalty (which someone of your strength just ignores).

Otherwise you have to have at least +1 Dex to reach +5 unless you go into the -10 speed heavy armors.

Much later on in life of course this speed issue becomes moot due to Mithral.

>> No.74629230

Where do you put Strike damage that comes from having additional runes and damage bonuses from class or feats?

>> No.74629238

Other than >>74629230 I really like it! This is a solid sheet Anon.

>> No.74629270

Could a Fighter poach those barbarian abilities by multiclassing? If not, Fighter sounds like the better angle.

And thanks, I wanna find a cute fairies and just go to town

>> No.74629307

Not entirely. The deer antler reach factor just never comes to multiclass Barbarian (specialization instinct abilities aren't in multiclass barbs), and the rest of their grapple benefits would come super late in the multiclass because they're level 8 and higher for Barbarians themselves.

A Barbarian could actually take the Fighter feats through multiclass more easily (Combat Grab and Dazing Blow are 2nd and 6th level), but they would never receive the training level of the Fighter. It's give and take.

>> No.74629324

I think I get it. I'll think it over, anon, but thanks for your guidance.

>> No.74629474

Monks are the other grapple class and they can fucking throw people absurd distances with a feat at level 6.

>> No.74629728

What's the more prestigious magical college between Mwangi's Magaambya, Absalom's Arcanamirium or even Varisia's Acadamae?

>> No.74629886

This is a great improvement anon.

>> No.74630272

Only now do I realize that the Maelstrom is an actual ocean between the Outer Planes, and that its title of "the Cerulean Void" is referring to its sea-like qualities.

Am I one of the few people who has realized this, or is this just common planar knowledge that everyone knows but never mentions?

>> No.74630283


You could run a naval campaign set in the Outer Planes, where proteans and other chaotic neutral outsiders take the role of Abyssal/Siren-like figures. Outer Planar navies become very important.

>> No.74630303

Sexy. Well done.

>> No.74630380

So I've been messing with a gimmick build for PF1 based around grappling. So far I've got up to a +15 grapple CMB at level 3, and 29 grapple CMD. This is with a half-giant striker (strong style grappler), using Spheres of Might stuff to apply extra CMD bonuses, and Deific Obedience (Falayna) for the +4 sacred bonus to grapple.

This is blatant shenanigans, basically just with the idea of reliably pinning and then tying up enemies, and eventually doing it in a single round (Brute + Quick Force + Manhandle to bull rush as a move action and grapple as a swift action, then a standard action grapple to pin, then greater grapple to tie up as a move action).

It's hard to find art, though. Got anything that would fit the vibe of a half-giant without weapons in the picture?

>> No.74630461

>Spheres of Might
into the trash it goes.

If unbalanced cheating third party stuff is allowed, then no one cares.

>> No.74630729

>Got anything that would fit the vibe of a half-giant without weapons in the picture?
How about normal brawler art, but you photoshop in a small prop to make it look like half-giant brawler art?

>> No.74631134

2E isn't at all well thought out anon.

>> No.74631141

I change my mind Spheres of Might is good actually.

>> No.74631164

>the math finally fucking works out for everyone, both in offense and defense
>generic actions provide both simplicity and flexibility together
>degrees of success enables everything to be less binary, losslessly condense wildly variable maneuvers such as grapples into high and low odds results in one clean implementation, and balance strong spell effects with lesser ones
>entire jank full attack system that plagued the shit out of 3.5/PF is somehow fully replicable in the generic action system in superior fashion, no longer part of awful leveling breakpoints, and now able to be cut up into pieces
2e is pretty well thought out, honestly. A lot better of a second attempt and mechanics overhaul than Starfinder was, which just made everything worse while attempting to address the same issues.

>> No.74631340

>the math finally fucking works out for everyone, both in offense and defense
No it fucking doesn't.

>> No.74631382

>everything scales by level, with a tightly bounded attribute/item bonus on top, maybe a +1 here or there
>being better at things means you're about +2 to +4 ahead at it
>the defense against it also scales by level, the same training metrics and similar item metrics just slightly behind so the game isn't frustrating
>martials with level appropriate equipment on average edge-out spells but it's never too far out at any level
>anon here says the math doesn't work out, so it must not

>> No.74631510

The math is dogshit.

Give me 1e back.

>> No.74631551

>where the math is OBJECTIVELY worse
pick any other sticking point moron

>> No.74631596

Congarts, gonna tell us the character epilogues?

Blingmaker endless

Much obliged for your contributions, Sir/Madame.

>> No.74631771


>> No.74631806

I've given you plenty of actual reasons, if you want to embarrass yourself by spouting bullshit without a single counterpoint, knock yourself out I guess.

>> No.74632720

Anons I'm trying to build a Crimson Templar in 1e, and want some ideas. For reference the group I play in is pretty min maxed and I know that this PrC isn't that good. I was thinking of taking 3 levels in Paladin, 1 in Unbreakable Fighter, 1 in Tanglebriar Demonslayer/Divine Tracker Ranger, and 1 in either Samurai/Cav/Brawler? Then full Crimson Templar. Stats would be (pre racial):
16STR, 12 DEX, 14CON, 10INT, 8WIS, 14CHA.
Anything I should do different? Maybe 2 levels of fighter with no archetype?

>> No.74632812

Maybe last level in UnMonk?

>> No.74632855

Go 4 levels in Paladin.

>> No.74633063

trying to make a buff for striker's fiery offensive on r20's community pathfinder sheet, is there any easy way to not have to mess around with the buffs itself too much?

i've tried using the custom attributes thing that the sheet has, but when i update the values of the tension it won't update the buff until i re-add the values, so i still have to mess around on the sheet instead of just keeping track of the tension i have on the actual token

>> No.74633115

Since you need Vital Strike and a BAB of +6 to qualify for Crimson Templar, your 6th level should be in something that grants you a bonus feat. Otherwise you'll have to wait an additional level before you can enter the prc. I'm also not sure why you're going Unbreakable. Are you doing a stalwart build?

>> No.74633224

Unbreakable is a good 1 level dip, also GM let's everyone take Power Attack for free.

>> No.74633229

What would you have him take instead of unbreakable? It's really efficient.

>> No.74633238

i wouldnt say that, endurance and diehard are pretty lackluster, especially given diehard is just the "hey GM can you kill my PC real quick?" feat

>> No.74633322

The section labeled "item." Its meant for enhancement bonuses. I guess that label could be changed to misc.

>> No.74633360

So should I take two levels of normal fighter instead? Or another in Paladin as >>74632855 said?

>> No.74633418

There's a reason why the Pirate Queen sails the seas in the Maelstrom.

>> No.74633518

I'm talking about Vital Strike, not Power Attack. You need +6 BAB to fulfill the prerequisites for Vital Strike, which means you can't take it before your 6th level. So unless you gain a bonus feat at level 6 you have to wait until level 7. If you wait until level 7 then you can't enter Crimson Templar at level 7 because you don't qualify for it.

It's only efficient if you need Endurance/Diehard for prerequisites, which is why I asked about Stalwart.

>> No.74633615

Ah, my bad. So then fighter 6th level then I see.

>> No.74633863

Are there any dragons that are pink in color?
I'm trying to figure out what type of dragon to use as a personality/gimmick base for a Carnation-scaled kobold.

>> No.74633875

I dunno if this is similar for 1e but in 2e the only detailed description of the planes is in the Gamemastery Guide of all things so while it's probably common knowledge in-universe it's unsuprising if it's uncommon knowledge to any player that hasn't dug through every book.

>> No.74634151

Crystal Dragons have multicolored, crystalized scales. A pink one isn't that unbelievable (pic rel, their 2e art has one with some pink scales).
Also, most Esoteric, Planar and Outer Dragons don't have a set appearance, so you can just use one of those. A pink Dream or Bliss Dragon would make sense.

>> No.74634216

Anybody wants a Starfinder Core Rulebook?
I've got a Paizo Key.

Reply with a generated email or something.

>> No.74634292

How often do Tieflings’ kids turn out to be Tieflings?

>> No.74634356

Considering the compounds of Tieflings in places like Kintargo? Pretty likely.

>> No.74634415

In general, tieflings will produce other tieflings. There are however very rare cases where, if a tiefling mates with a member of their parent race, that the child may be a normal member of said race, though its exceedingly rare for that to occur

>> No.74634430

It's stated that children from a tiefling/tiefling couple will be tieflings themselves most of the time, but rare cases where a tiefling couple has a normal kid do exist.

>> No.74635844

Don't forget that monk now has Gorilla Stance, which gives the only grapple 'weapon' available at level 1. Monk also has Clinging Shadows Stance, which duplicates the Furious Bully circumstance bonus for grapple (but not other Athletics attacks) as well as being a grapple and reach 'weapon'.

With these in mind, for maximum restrained results I'd personally look at a monk rather than either fighter or barbarian, and maybe fighter dedication to grab those grab-related feats.

>> No.74636197

Finished sheet. Its not perfect, I am going to make a character description page eventually, but here is all that you would need.

>> No.74636303

Fixed some alignment issues really quick.

>> No.74636376

Oh, darn, I forgot that the grapple property doesn't let you overlap item bonuses directly to Athletics and from the weapon thing. However, I think Clinging Shadows Initiate is still the best option because it also applies the circumstance bonus to your Escape DC, not just the initial attack.

After checking the numbers, it looks like about the max raw number you could get with any build right now at level 20 is +40 Athletics to grapple:

Legendary Athletics: +28
Strength 24 (max Strength plus belt of giant strength) +7
Clinging Shadows Stance or Furious Bully: +2 circumstance
Greater armbands of athleticism: +3 item

If you have an alchemist in the party, you can get that to +41 by regularly downing major bestial mutagen, which ups the item bonus to +4.

An ancient gold dragon has a Fort DC of 47 and a balor has fort DC 49, so you're going to be more often than not succeeding on the check against the beefiest level-comparable monsters, but you'll still be needing to get a 16+ or 17+ to critically succeed and restrain them.

This gets a lot easier if you build around also inflicting frightened, since each point of frightened reduces those DCs 1-to-1. Same with drained. Less does drained than frightened, but there's a selection of cold and necromancy spells that can inflict drained, so coordinate with your party members.

In the best-case scenario, you've just downed a major bestial mutagen, you or somebody else has rendered the target frightened 2, and your party wizard just hit the other guy with wail of the banshee and inflicted drained 4. You now have an effective +47 to grapple against the target's listed stats, at which point you're going to be hitting a critical success against the ancient gold dragon half the time.

>> No.74636513

Oh, and at level 20 with Legendary Athletics, you have an Assurance result of 38. This is enough for you to always automatically restrain any creature with Fort +18 or less indefinitely (with no chance for natural 1s because you're not rolling). From my eyeballing, this includes most creatures of level 7 or lower and some creatures of level 8 and 9, like the efreeti.

>> No.74636698

Do Bards in 2e not have the option to grant any bonuses to skill checks anymore?

>> No.74636745

At level 20, creatures that are that far below you are practically fodder. You don't really need to bother grabbing them when they can barely hit you.

>> No.74636789

Good point, I forgot about status bonuses. As long as your party is set up for it (bard, buff spells, whatever), you can expect to get at least a +1 status bonus to those grapple attacks when it's important and a +2 if you have a well-run bard, so make that +42 to grapple baseline, or effective +49 in that best case with the debuffs.

>> No.74636806

>not wanting to hogtie a cute efreeti

>> No.74636869

Just back them into a corner and watch them feebly try and move past you.

Also does their Burning Grasp consider your penis "grabbed" when you mating press them?

A Legendary Performance Bard automatically succeeds on Aid when using Inspire Competence, which is a +4 circumstance bonus. You can get up to a +3 status bonus with Inspire Heroics/Song of Strength as well.

>> No.74636909

Getting a lot of use out of the Harm Spell as a Sorceror, but nervous about dropping that 30-foot Emanation on my friends. Are there any feats I can take to exclude targets?

>> No.74636989

Cleric has Selective Energy, but I don't think there's a Careful Spell-esque feat for Sorcerers or Wizards.

>> No.74636992

Sadly, not as a Sorcerer. Selective Energy is exactly what you are looking for, but it's Cleric-only.

>> No.74637088

Well, good to know, thank you. Maybe my DM will consider letting me take it as a boon or something at some point.

>> No.74637373

>Kobold Druid with the Frog Domain

>> No.74637394

You can take Advanced dogma at lvl 12 to get it as well

>> No.74638000

Anyone happen to know what the longest weapon in the Heavy Blades category is?

>> No.74638149

dimensions aren't given for weapons, and none of the heavy blades have reach, so if I had to guess probably the Nodachi since its the only heavy blade that is also a polearm

>> No.74638209

The nodachi has the largest overall size including the hilt, but the greatsword has the longest blade. The nodachi is the better mechanical weapon choice, since it's 18-20/x2 (or a full 15-20/x2 compared to the 17-20/x2 for a greatsword once you get Improved Critical). Since it's also simultaneously a polearm and a heavy blade, you can also use polearm gimmicks with it like Shield Brace or Shielded Staff Style to use a shield simultaneously.

If you want to be truly ridiculous, combine with powerful build (3PP like half-giant or the aegis class) or with an oversized weapons ability (like that one tiefling alternate ability) to use a Large nodachi like pic related.

>> No.74639538

Don't forget keen as an option for getting that crit up.

>> No.74639699

>Scaled Disciple
>Prerequisites: Ability to spontaneously cast divine spells, kobold.
>Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus to your caster level when casting spells included in the dragon domain or subdomains. Your spontaneous divine spellcasting qualifies in place of arcane casting for the dragon disciple prestige class, and you may increase spellcasting in your spontaneous divine class as you progress in dragon disciple levels. Add the bonus spells gained from the blood of dragons ability to those you can cast as divine spells.
So, what would be some good oracle mysteries or other spontaneous divine options to go with this?

>> No.74639823

Keen doesn't stack with Improved Critical. It's the same end result either way.

The only thing that DOES stack with any other crit range improvement is the Critical Edge talent pick from the stalker class from Path of War. You could pick it up with one level in the class, but if you're going to do that you might as well take two levels to also add Wisdom to Init and Reflex, and/or two levels of it with the Brutal Slayer archetype to replace Dex to AC and Reflex with 1/2 your Str mod (on top of that Wisdom bonus).

Well, the main problem with that is losing your baseline class progression, so you want a base class that just has as much stuff as possible that's not really level-scaled, or that's still useful after losing the level scaling.

>> No.74641648

To be fair, Oracle does have stuff like that. Your curse still progresses when you level outside of Oracle, albeit at half rate, and some revelations just give your feats or other non-scaling abilities. Not sure what mystery would be the best choice though, I've never looked into it. I'm going to guess the Battle mystery, because it's all around pretty solid.

>> No.74642125

>Weapon Trick (Polearms) lets me wield Nodachi's in one hand since its a polearm
>I can also make it a double weapon with Spear Dancer Style
>And still wield a shield with Shield Brace

>> No.74643492

So you could fuck all kinds of cuties

>> No.74644032

So, I know in Kobolds of Golarion they mentioned the existance of translucent-scaled, or "ghost" kobolds, and just vaguely mentioned that they are very rare and auspicious. Did we ever get any more information on them? Were they ever mentioned in any modules? What would transluscemt scales even look like on them? Just slightly shiny like a pink holographic flip card? Or maybe like an albino lizard?

>> No.74645676

>spear dancer style

What would that even look like,half-swording, or something?

>> No.74646090

Exploits just look like whatever you want them to.

>> No.74647108

Real question is, what of sort of things would be neat ways to explain it as.

>> No.74647270

Imagine a pole dancer kicking your ass while also performing

>> No.74648310

So, like vauting off the sword, planted into the ground landing a kick?

>> No.74648468

Maybe more like one of these critters

>> No.74648482


>> No.74648498

Or this

>> No.74650565

Like so?

>> No.74652420

counterpoint: 2e loses all sense of actual heroism and being someone who actually gains something by leveling because of the fact that math is so tight. It's just not fun.

>> No.74652569 [DELETED] 

If assurance included your ability modifier in its calculation (while still ignoring bonuses/penalties), how much of an impact would this have? Would this make it too strong of an autosuccess feat for certain things (like Athletics)? With what >>74636513
said, being level 20 and legendary and only being able to auto succeed against things over 10+ levels under you seems incredibly underwhelming.

>> No.74652601

If assurance included your ability modifier in its calculation (while still ignoring bonuses/penalties), how much of an impact would this have? Would this make it too strong of an autosuccess feat for certain things (like Athletics)?

>> No.74654428

What makes it not fun for you, just out of curiosity? The tighter math would seem like it'd be a nicer thing to have.

I'm not playing the edition as of yet, but I'm interested in learning pro/cons of it.

>> No.74655413

Yes, it's already very strong

>> No.74656186

I don't think assurance is intended to make difficult or level-appropriate checks auto-passes. It's there to make very easy checks auto-passes (basically insurance against rolling really low). A good example is like using assurance to automatically pass a check to add a low level spell to your spellbook or succeed on a medicine check.

It's not there to make tripping or intimidating or whatever an enemy an automatic success (unless they are much lower level).

Letting you add your modifier to assurance is basically giving someone an automatic 10 on all their rolls with a skill which is broken because a 10 will succeed on non-trivial checks a lot of the time. It's almost as if there'd be no point to rolling at all which is not what the game is all about.

>> No.74656434

Not him, but I tried playing 2e and immediately disliked it. I was playing a Bard, for the record, and one of the biggest take aways from 2e I had was how much I disliked character advancement. The granularity of all the different feats and feat categories is fine, desirable even, but so many of those feats felt either useless (especially with the skill feats) or like they didn't play well with my other abilities. If I had the describe the feeling I got from 2e character building, it was simultaneously having too many feat slots and too few feats to choose from.

I'm starting a 2e game soon, probably going to run Age of Ashes, and just see if I like 2e any better as a DM instead of a player. I have a cautious optimism.

>> No.74656917

Working on it, hot shot

>> No.74656958

Booze and meat and meat and booze

>> No.74657587


>You learned early on that teamwork can help keep you safe from troublemakers.

>Benefit(s): Choose one teamwork feat that requires an ally with the same feat to be adjacent to you. You may benefit from that teamwork feat as long as you have an ally within 10 feet of you (though your ally does not benefit from the teamwork feat unless it also has this trait or a similar ability).

Are there any other "similar abilities" out there or was this just future-proofed language? I can't think of any.

>> No.74657845

Not that anon, I like 2e and its advancements (especially with the archetype system), but I can admit that there are many feats that feel overly specific or unsynergenic.

Though I can say its a fault of having to start small and build up a new powerlevel of feats and systems from scratch, instead of having 3.5 as a baseline. As time moves on, we are seeing some more effective and interesting feats of all kinds, even if some are still too specific.

Though I prefer the "Too many feat slots, too few to choose" issue over how 1e handled it. Even if I never get any more feats, there's enough for me to work with that I feel like I'm building the character in my head more than just getting the idea to function to begin with.

>> No.74657917

Well, one could argue the Inquisitor's solo-tactics ability would count, as it does the exact same thing.

>> No.74657978

Not really? Solo Tactics makes your allies count as if they had a Teamwork feat for your benefit, but the Undine Loyalty trait extends the range at which you can benefit from your ally's teamwork feat. They still have to actually have the teamwork feat for Undine Loyalty to do anything.

>> No.74658078

Haven't seen any either. I remember trying to build around that trait but didn't find anything gamechanging. Swarm Scatter necromancer via Charnel Soldier for the memes, though.

>> No.74658127

My character will be having the Leadership feat after prestiging into Noble Scion, I'm thinking of making both his cohort also an Undine and have them both share this feat. I already wanted to get a Ring of Tactical Precision for the cohort as part of an Aid Another build, so a teamwork like Shake it Off could be worth taking.

>> No.74658339

Does spell resistance apply against potions? What about extracts? 1e Pathfinder.

>> No.74658413

Yes to both.

>> No.74658443

Damn. Alright, any suggestions for how someone with spell resistance that can't be lowered should get their healing? I hope there's a better option that using the Heal skill to Treat Deadly Wounds 1/day.

>> No.74658475


One of the most valid criticisms of 2e

At least it's a problem that will probably go away over time as more options are released.

Some skill feats are very powerful like battle medicine or intimidating glare and you can base a large part of your character on just those skill feats. It's kind of weird that that bucket of feats is kind of supposed to just be flavorful weak stuff but then also has a few really strong options...

Class feats will absolutely continue to improve, however. It will probably be the case that martial classes feats are more impactful, but that's because they don't cast spells which is another major way that casters have to customize their characters. I do feel that there are just a lot of caster feats that are absolute dogshit, though which is a serious bummer. My poor wizard. They have to do something to improve that situation. Maybe they will with the new magic book.

Regardless of how you feel as a player, however, I think you'll find that GMing 2e is much, much more fun than GMing 1e. The system for setting DCs is extremely easy, balanced and versatile. Simply learning how simple and level-based DCs work cover basically everything. I GM'd 1e for years and still have no idea how to set most DCs in that game... Combine that with the fact that monsters actually have interesting abilities that you get to use, their abilities aren't hidden generic feats and the encounter-building rules produce combats of the difficulty that they say they will? I think GMing 2e is just so much better.

Whether your players like it more will come down to taste among many other factors, but I can imagine a lot of tables will switch just because GMs enjoy 2e more.

>> No.74658577

Yeah, running 2e has been insanely fun for me. Messing about with initiative, snares, and 3 actions have been fun to do, I've been giving my players a lot of fun and unique combat challenges. And yeah, the DCs have been easy to establish and figure out.

>> No.74658733

Speaking of Wizards, that reminds me of something else that soured my first 2e experience. I'm a big fan of familiars, but there was tons of arguing on the Paizo forums about what the "right" way to have familiars work is, vis a vis the minion rules and exploration modes and all so many rules in what felt to me like an area where you shouldn't need rules. Apparently people were worried about breaking action economy with familiars. I think they were probably PFS players who had seen too many wand-imp memes over the years in 1e, but dude, I just want to have myself a small talking animal.

Anyway, that didn't really matter much to my actual experience with 2e because it was all arguements that other people were having away from the table I played at. But it was still annoying, in the sort of way that listening to your neighbor's loud music when you're trying to do your own thing is.

My secret advice for setting DCs in 1e after several years of DMing is actually don't set DCs most of the time, just let characters who are invested in something succeed at the thing they were built to succeed at most of the time, and just roughly eyeball everything else as either 25%, 50%, or 75% odds but that's neither here nor there in a discussion about 2e. It's secret advice because most players and other DMs freak out when they hear it.

I did already try my hand at running 2e, technically, but with Fall of Plaguestone my group really didn't like Etran's Folly or the NPCs that much and soon enough we stopped playing. But I enjoyed running enough that I think I might like the system more from the DM's seat. Part of what appeals to me about DMing 2e is how much easier it is to get players that aren't already familiar with the system into it. My next group has little to no TTRPG experience, and having tried to teach 1e to new players before, I know teaching them 2e has been easier than 1e would have been.

>> No.74658938

Just get them to luck out on the SR check, it's highly unlikely that it's so high your party can't beat it 40-60% of the time if your GM is being fair.

>> No.74659054

>, vis a vis the minion rules and exploration modes and all so many rules in what felt to me like an area where you shouldn't need rules.

Familiars should use rules because the fact that they can act as an extra set of hands. Even in their most simplistic applications, they are a tool that can be used for the player's benefit, much like their sword or actual tools.
If you just want a small talking animal, nothing is stopping you from asking your GM and making sure you aren't allowed to use it in any situation, but your character is a living entity in their world. There are very, very few circumstances where someone wouldn't use the sentient, obedient, magical animal in their backpocket for anything.

And at its heart, it is Pathfinder, of course it is going to having rules for that specific scenario. It may not be GURPS but it is a core aspect of the heroic fantasy. Especially with Witches back on the table.

At least as they are now, the familiar rules are pretty easy to understand and works pretty well while abiding to the customization aspects of 2e. My only real complaint is the Bulk rulings in regards to them and how it makes the Toolbearer ability a little useless?

yeah, I can see why that is a problem. That dealt some pain to read as a DM, but I can see how it can work. I feel like failure is as valid a character building and storytelling device as success.

>> No.74659403

>At least as they are now, the familiar rules are pretty easy to understand and works pretty well while abiding to the customization aspects of 2e. My only real complaint is the Bulk rulings in regards to them and how it makes the Toolbearer ability a little useless?
I recall a particularly obnoxious debate about familiars in exploration mode that basically amounted to, "the rules say exploration mode activities that 'correspond to roughly 20 actions per minute, might have limited use or cause fatigue', so if you want to stride AND command your familiar/animal companion to also stride, you are fatigued".

>That dealt some pain to read as a DM, but I can see how it can work. I feel like failure is as valid a character building and storytelling device as success.
In situations where a DC is easily available, I just use that DC. Most common checks in 1e Pathfinder have DCs that are pretty easy to calculate or are just opposed by someone else's check. What I'm talking about in the spoiler is for the comparatively rare situation of someone making a check when I have no idea what the DC should be. It's not worth interrupting the pace and flow to go scan the rules and do Google searches for five minutes I can calculate the exactly perfect DC to use. The other aspect of it is that most characters who are good at a skill are REALLY GOOD at a skill in my experience, especially once you're out of Rusty Dagger Shanktown, and rolling is sometimes just a formality.

>> No.74659454

>My secret advice for setting DCs in 1e after several years of DMing is actually don't set DCs most of the time, just let characters who are invested in something succeed at the thing they were built to succeed at most of the time, and just roughly eyeball everything else as either 25%, 50%, or 75% odds but that's neither here nor there in a discussion about 2e. It's secret advice because most players and other DMs freak out when they hear it.
Me over here asking my players to roll things and I'm just like "yeah that seems high" or "yeah that seems low".

If I didn't specifically prep the roll beforehand (enemy, trap, etc.), then I just eyeball it nine times in ten.

>> No.74660995

Are there any good third party adventure-path-style books that fully embrace the established Pathfinder/Starfinder lore and world? Especially 2e, I'm not especially thrilled with the current APs but I'd love to not have to just entirely make up my own.

>> No.74661049

>Are there any good third party adventure-path-style books that fully embrace the established Pathfinder/Starfinder lore and world?
All of the setting stuff is Paizo's product identity, so third parties wouldn't be able to use them without negotiating the rights. So to answer your question: no.

>> No.74661130

encounter ideas for a corrupted forest which is home to a former mercenary army (consisting of Lepers), and horrible bog monsters? I need to fill in my random encounter sheet for that region of my map

>> No.74661233

Hags, slimes, and nagas are always a good go-to.

>> No.74661252

Party level and edition?

>Local dragon asshole or its brood. Black dragons are assholes.
>Various varieties of angry flora.
>Stumbling into a battle between corrupted fauna and their natural counterparts.
>Stumbling into a battle between the mercenaries and either local demihumans like lizardfolk/frogman tribespeople, or the law who isn't willing to let an army chill in some country's forest.
>Will-o-wisps and other spectral undead, or the corpses of long-dead mercenaries rising from the bog.

>Mercenary camp followers, bathing or doing laundry or whatnot.
>Either mercenaries or other travelers, who have gotten their wagon stuck in the mud of the bog.
>Some sort of creature that offers passage over a particularly nasty portion of the bog. May possibly betray them.

>> No.74661297

>Heroes, there is a lost child of mine in this swamp! But he is mixed into the swamp with a large number of uncreative ghosts and spirits also pretending to be lost, to lure travellers to their deaths!
on the house

>> No.74661417

variant outcomes
>none of the children are real
>none of the children are real, but there's an old man they find who helps them look, who is actually the lost child who's now lived 80 years out here
>more than one lost child is real
>the man is actually Freddy Krueger and the players don't pick up on it from his description because of all the leper mercenaries
>there isn't even one singular fucking lost child, real or fake, ghosts got bored of this centuries ago
>the lost child specifically came out here to join his magical ghost coven
>the lost children are ALL d&d3.5 meenlocks meaning they inflict 1d4 wisdom damage from 300ft away every 1d4 rounds on a failed Will save, slowly driving the entire party crazy while they become more paranoid and see shifting shapes in their peripheral vision, and when they succumb they are dragged underground where the meenlocks touch them from all sides and turn them into meenlocks

>> No.74661760

Local myths about a vengeful spirit created by the the town nearby when they killed a leper who fell in love with a townsman's daughter
>bonus points for gruesome murder
>bonus points for the myth being true

>> No.74661826

You could even briefly confound the players with encounters with 2 separate ghosts, the leper and the townsman, and they have to think critically about who is actually their enemy after they find out there was more than one.

>> No.74661837

Roc or Elephant companion for a druid? Provided we already have two frontline characters.

>> No.74661844

Roc, for the sole purpose of not getting in everyone's way.

>> No.74662578

>actually don't set DCs most of the time, just let characters who are invested in something succeed at the thing they were built to succeed at most of the time, and just roughly eyeball everything else as either 25%, 50%, or 75% odds
As a player it's really obvious and annoying when the DM does this. You might as well not invest in skills at all beyond the bare minimum because your mod will cease to matter, the DM just decides if you succeed based on if you rolled above 10 on the d20 or not.

>> No.74664127

There is also the nice fringe benefit, the roc can be used as a flying mount.

>> No.74665950

For extra credit, have the other ghost be innocent in appearance.

>> No.74668200

Would it better as arbitrarily set DCs the DM feels is appropriate?

>> No.74668262

To be blunt, yes.
If you gonna make me roll, I might as well feel like I'm gonna fuck up the simplest task.
Otherwise DON'T ASK ME TO ROLL, NIMRODS. Just let us succeed and move on.
The point of rolling is to bridge the gap between player and character, to gamify conflict. If you can't fail, then there is no game and you are just wasting everyone's valuable time.

>> No.74669636

Reasonable. My group is rampant with silly high arbitrary DCs for perception rolls, which are called for, all the time...

>> No.74671287

>Myconid soup

I'm curious what this would taste like.

>> No.74672254

please respond

>> No.74672321

I'd read it as gaining more options at 8th/16th level, but can still only have one active at a time. Note that the time limit for foci is tracked individually. At 8th level you have two different time pools to pull from.

>> No.74672973

If I take eight levels in bard and then start taking levels in something else, does the DC for Dirge of Doom and other abilities continue to scale with his overall character level, or just his levels in bard? This is for 1E, BTW.

>> No.74673204

Just bard levels. Outside of a few small things, most everything is tied to the actual class or in special cases called out by a prestige class, they can progress, otherwise no go.

>> No.74673316

I'm trying to make a tank with Dirge of Doom so I can use Shatter Defenses with the rest of my party. Any recommendation on how to build that? I can't dip into Paladin due to alignment restriction.

>> No.74674035

Go straight bard:

Look for feats like this, I'd say.

>> No.74674898

Always class levels unless specified otherwise. But Dirge of Doom doesn't have a saving throw, everyone is just no-save shaken for as long as you perform.

Just use Dazzling Display if you want to AoE shaken. Dirge of Doom seems like a lot of investment for a minor benefit.

>> No.74675518

(2e) How do you go about running a dungeon, especially if using some sort of VTT with a squared grid? I'm especially confused as to how to deal with passage of time/player movement/light and line of sight, like what's the step-by-step of exploration?

>> No.74676175

No such thing as a straight bard

>> No.74676253

Some VTTs have tools to let you set up LOS or at least fake it on the fly. Passage of time is fluid depending on whether you want to limit your players to the 6-seconds-per-round-one-person-takes-a-turn-at-a-time standard or let it be more freeform until an encounter happens.

>> No.74677850

So after taking a look at Nodachi's being polearms, I'm finding that Spear Dancer Style in general actually works with Unchained Rogue really well if you can get away with using Human's Adoptive Parentage to get Weapon Focus at 1st level before you get +1 BAB. Getting a Double Weapon you can Finesse and having to spend less money looks good on paper. Also getting Spear Dancing Spiral by 3rd Rogue level lets you get Dex to damage with your polearm too.

>> No.74679278

Don't make people take turns outside of combat unless it's a very finnicky area requiring it. Just ask for a marching order.

>> No.74679910

Yeah, I don't like the idea of taking turns when doing exploration. How would you suggest I pace movement, though? They tell me where/what direction they want to go and I stop and update the map accordingly whenever there's a significant change (like a fork in the corridor or a door/room)?

>> No.74679924

Yep, exactly.

>> No.74680220

Is there anywhere to read or at least see references of the different practices of alchemy - the list on https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Alchemy is all red linked except for the ones that link to the alcohol page to list items. What I see is maddening since most of the detail of alchemy seems to be half explained in the descriptions of alchemical items themselves. I want to know what the functional or at least apparent differences are to be able to describe two or seven different alchemists beyond suggesting how ready for adventure they are. But so far I can only muster a difference between "Chemist" and "Herbalist".

>> No.74680257

A lot of that page seems to be sourced from the Pathfinder Companion: Alchemy Manual, which is on the Trove.

>> No.74680632

I know 2e Alchemist is considered bad, but what about an Alchemist multiclass, for the little extra oomph of mutagens and poisons in combat?

>> No.74680721

I'm sure both are viable if that's the kind of character you want to play.

But neither option seems all that amazing.

>> No.74680784

I mean dedication is 1-2 feats for a respectable damage or padding increase, like a Barbarian dedication that doesn't cut off your Concentrate actions.

>> No.74680821

what would be the easiest way in 2E to make a red mage style character? I know magus is coming out eventually, but that's a class thats all about damage instead of a jack-type

>> No.74680993

Mutagens and poisons just feel underwhelming. Much like the alchemist class itself. The items you can make will constantly be underleveled, so the enemy will likely succeed its saves against your poisons.

Unfortunately you'll have to pick one side to focus on, spells or swords. You cannot be equally good at both of them. So I think a fighter with the wizard dedication would be the best option at the moment. Your hit rate is better than any other class. But you won't have many spells until lv12+.

>> No.74681382

Sure, but virtually nothing else is actually adding to your damage with just class feats. Poison is uncertain damage, but the possibility of bonus damage is still kind of rare for feats. It just lasts until you attack with it so it cost you zero actions to set up, and can potentially add a fair bit of persistent damage if they botch the save, especially at low level.

Energy Mutagen pumps your damage by 1 at the starting level and if you take the second Alchemist feat would give you 1d4 bonus damage for combat on all attacks, one action to activate. At low levels, you could set up Juggernaut Mutagens for 5 free HP padding anytime an attack might be ineffective or impossible.

You have as many of these as your level per day, ie you're not running out after like level 5.

>> No.74681483

Fighter is still a fantastic user of True Strike, Longstrider, Mirror Image and Haste honestly, as well as utilities like Invisibility, Illusory Object and Ghost Sound to mess with and evade enemies. You can True Strike a Swipe for instance to get high-odds critical for knockdowns on 2 targets, or on one of your debilitating Press attacks to ensure it if you would only drop a -10 attack to do it.

Adding to the reason to use Fighter, Fighters and Champions arguably make good use of attributes to have stuff like a maxed mental stat in addition to maxed strength because their heavy armor allows them to get away with 0 Dex. Non-heavy armor users can't get away with that. As a result you can be looking at 19 Str 18 Int by level 5 (18/16 beforehand), losing nothing in melee but having full power cantrips. When you're hasted by an ally for instance, Striking twice and Electric Arcing 2 enemies is probably better than using your last -10/-10 attacks (EA doesn't have attack trait and even damages enemies on their passed save), Ray of Frost is 120ft range so you don't have to be an awkward switch-hitter, and Shield is always nice.

>> No.74681508

all of this is just how to make a magus/gish style character. if you want to be a red mage just be a war cleric with an archetype into wizard or something to pick up some blasting

>> No.74681634

I really wish I could recommend Warpriest for the concept, but last I looked it was too difficult to be useful with the current Divine list. Has that changed since APG's spell additions? They also never reach Master in physicals, they just get Expert at 7 and sit. They're behind in each by substantial amounts and a melee who takes a caster dedication is behind Warpriest spell training by exactly 1 more while being fully kept up at physical, and still gets to finish at Master caster training.

>> No.74681747

Honestly, the Warpriest framework being there as an example is set up to support an absolutely TRIVIALLY easy Magus homebrew: Put the Wapriest progression onto the Wizard class in place of getting a School and boom, that's pretty much what they're going to do anyway. Magus style actions are already just out-of-the-box supported like in >>74681483's Electric Arc example. No further work required (or really welcome, since creating Spellstrike will overtune your homebrew due to full spell damage progressions for everyone).

>> No.74682103

the red mage spell list is the druid/primal one, which has healing, damage, and buff/debuffs

>> No.74683165



>> No.74683554

I'll take the current state of skills over shit like power attack being too good to not take or all the fucking feat tax that the interesting stuff had in 1e. Archetypes are a nice bandaid for classes with weak feats as well.

>> No.74684430

Muscle wizard. Proficiency isn't as punishing as BAB was, so you can make up the difference with strength and self buffs.

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