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73504915 No.73504915 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Ancient guns are the most underappreciated aesthetic. Knights carrying around big bulky fuckoff cannons bolted to wooden rectangles barely shaped like what a gun should be ought to be more common.

>> No.73505197
File: 187 KB, 1920x768, Zündnadelgewehr_m-1841_-_Preussen_-_Armémuseum.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73505197

Not that old, but I really enjoy the Zündnadelgewehr

>> No.73505248

>>73504915
Knights never carried guns, and the 14th century is hardly “ancient”

>> No.73505311
File: 397 KB, 1252x1226, 1592802690651.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73505311

>>73505248
that is why it's an underappreciated aesthetic

>> No.73505672
File: 264 KB, 1600x427, 1558989672527.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73505672

>>73505197
Mid-19th century firearms were the peak of style. Guns before then were less versatile. Guns after then were/are too utilitarian.

>> No.73505971
File: 408 KB, 2500x2500, 666F0752-AD6F-465D-9A35-ED44853AE15B.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73505971

>>73505248
>Knights never carried guns
The Japanese would like to have a word with you and before you even bring it up, yes, samurai were culturally significantly different from Western knights, but they filled basically the same roles in battle and in their culture

>> No.73506153

>>73504915
Knights would have used smaller firearms as replacements for their lances

>> No.73506237

>>73505311
This guy gets it
Anyone else got knights carrying guns?

>> No.73506307
File: 6.45 MB, 4656x5712, 1586853537767.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73506307

>>73506237
Lots of gun knight art, very little if any gonne knight art

>> No.73506349
File: 434 KB, 602x440, main-qimg-680406b6a05885c7eee1584949e8429f.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73506349

>>73506307

>> No.73506352

>>73506307
I cannot tell how much land these people own

>> No.73506386
File: 74 KB, 573x800, groene_tenten_by_jasonjuta_d5px2wx-fullview.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73506386

>>73506349
Technically not a gonne knight pic but I like this image

>> No.73506387

>>73504915
Because those guns are awesome for rank and people who don't know what a gun is. Someone in a group of 5 with a single shot weapon better be a good swordsman.

>> No.73506404

>>73506386
>technically

>> No.73506447
File: 121 KB, 191x220, firefox_2020-07-01_23-02-47.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73506447

>>73506387
That's why you just play as this mad lad and his combination weapon. The best part about gonnes is that firearms weren't properly standardized yet so they were just welding fucking anything on cannons and welding cannons onto anything. Everyone was experimenting with wild ideas and that's something you could run with in a fantasy world.

>> No.73506461
File: 641 KB, 478x643, 1411100431075.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73506461

>>73504915
Toasting

>> No.73506494
File: 40 KB, 542x389, pistol-shield.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73506494

>>73506447
Like look at this. I don't care if it was impractical for widespread use you fucking bet I'm gonna spring this on my players.

>> No.73506548
File: 25 KB, 602x234, main-qimg-8842e98dac34560ba331b3dcc891d7c6.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73506548

Imagine running away from some guy swinging an axe at you, and then when you think you've outrun him, you get shot.

>> No.73506619

>>73506386
>"Did he fill this to go off in six seconds or only five?" Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself. But being as this is a fire lance, the most powerful lance in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya, punk?

>> No.73506637

>>73506619
To be honest I don’t know what the hell that thing really is

>> No.73506688
File: 402 KB, 1280x1280, beg gun.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73506688

>>73506637
Consult the handy handgonne chart

>> No.73506888

>>73504915
They're ugly, largely ineffective, and can't really be used for any sort of journey unless you're going the realistic route of having the soldiers travel with numerous support personnel.

>> No.73506949

>>73506307
berserk tier

>> No.73507385

>>73506949
https://youtu.be/ocQ6PDiP014

With garage band level Engrish

>> No.73507389

>>73506307
Why were breech-loaders fairly common in the late middle ages, but then disappeared for like 300 years?

>> No.73507641
File: 2.61 MB, 400x225, Nobunaga.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73507641

>>73504915
RESPECT

>> No.73507664
File: 149 KB, 1060x1535, Pewpew.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73507664

>>73504915
POW!

>> No.73507717
File: 2.21 MB, 2316x1362, 1593658584287a.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73507717

>>73506307
It's like recoil isn't even a thing!
Also, I bet that horse'd shit itself... assuming it survived.

>> No.73507719
File: 82 KB, 771x869, Cuirassier.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73507719

>>73505248
Sure, they weren't "knights" in the traditional liege sense but they were mounted cavalrymen with armour and guns.

>> No.73507842
File: 69 KB, 851x831, -lWzlVnLiJo.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73507842

>>73507664
How does he aim the gun?

>> No.73507855

>>73507842
With his iron sights

>> No.73507889

I've given my players guns before. They don't ruin a D&D campaign. Usually the novelty wears off when they fall off the damage curve.

Other weapons in the game scale off stat bonuses, magical enhancements, and feats, but as far as firearms go, you don't get a stat bonus to damage- it's a gun.
There's like two whole feats you can take that's relevant for your gun, one actually being firearm proficient, and the other being CBE which technically shouldn't apply, but since firearms have the loading property, it actually does apply.

You can enchant guns for additional damage, but that's a flat +1 or +2 or whatever upgrade.

A Barbarian's phoenix greatword does fire damage on hit, and can blast off a 3d6 cone of fire as well as stat bonus, weapon bonus, etc.

Once everyone else starts blasting off ridiculous damage at STR mod + weap dam + enchant or DEX mod + weap dam + enchant or whatever and they're still plinking away with flat 2d10 piercing, they typically trade out for something else.

>> No.73507896

>>73507855
I meant that it wouldn't be very comfortable without some form of a cutout in the armpit area
https://youtu.be/kNVfe5Et9-I
Different armour, ofc, but still

>> No.73507901 [SPOILER] 
File: 7 KB, 225x225, 1593666485468.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73507901

>>73507719
Cuirassier and curiouser.

>> No.73507911

>>73507842
Pray and spray

>> No.73507943

>>73507889
>not having equally magical guns

>> No.73507970

>>73507896
I know. It's just a terrible pun.
Because he's wearing a helmet. Made of iron.
That he sees through.
Iron Sights.

>> No.73507987
File: 62 KB, 750x1334, 47Ny6l6kKu4.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73507987

>>73507970

>> No.73507990

>>73506619
kek

>> No.73508040

>"did he fill this to hie off 'i six seconds or only five?" well, to say to thou sooth, 'i all this excitement i kind of lost track myself. Yet being as this is a fire lance, the most powerful lance 'i the orb, and would blow thy pate clean off, thou've got to bid yourself one question: "do my liver moves thrifty?" Well, doth ya, punk?

I could have cleaned this up a bit but the mixture of modern and old english vernacular absolutely kills me

>> No.73508053

>>73508040
meant as reply to >>73506619

>> No.73508483

>>73507901
Goddamnit Carlos

>> No.73508580

>>73506888
That's true for spears and pollaxes too but /tg/ won't shut up about them

>> No.73508656
File: 330 KB, 1280x905, dragon cannon gun fantasy.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73508656

Honestly? Super fun for the right kind of game. I personally prefer my games more of an iron-age fantasy ala Tolkien, so crossbows are as far as I go, but these are great for more grittier games or games with a more technlogical society bent I feel.

>> No.73508841

>>73507389

The moving parts in a pre-industrial, pre-precision era are a bad idea since more often than not it wouldn't seal properly.

>> No.73509033

>>73505672
So why are you posting a super recent gun then?

>> No.73509067

>>73507389
As the other anon said, lots of action-sealing issue. Meaning you'll lose a lot of power in the first place and the risks of failure are higher. It's alright for fairly light canons, but do you really want a gun that as a good tendency to blow up near your face or made very very big? Answer was nope.
Just goes on to show that they had the good ideas right at the beginning but were limited by their technological advancement.

>> No.73509086
File: 586 KB, 1356x1920, 186.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73509086

>>73504915
My man, they're my favorite underused element too. Cherries on top of Sekiro's enemy roster.

>> No.73509089

>>73507389
>>73508841
It could be a competency issue. Some artisans were good enough to make breach-loaders centuries early, but never bothered to pass the skills knowledge needed after a certain point.

>> No.73509506

>>73508580
boo, get better bait (You) heathen

>> No.73509568

>>73507943
>>73507889
Yeah if you want guns in fantasy you don't play D&D/PF. You play GURPS, or SW or something else.

>> No.73509646

>>73507889

Pathfinder uses dex-to-damage.

>> No.73509665
File: 167 KB, 1920x1280, large_Di_2005_1034.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73509665

>>73504915

Yall got any of them breech loading flint/matchlocks?

>> No.73509726
File: 47 KB, 512x336, unnamed.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73509726

>>73509665
here's a pretty often shown breach-loading wheellock with individual self contained metallic cartridges, from the late 16th c. iirc.

>> No.73509783

>>73509726

This looks bulking and small enough to seem like a Dwarven design.

>> No.73509819

>>73504915
I've thought about using guns similar to a spell scroll, a single use powerful resource. Takes about 45-60 seconds to reload after firing so you'd only get one chance to use it per fight. Gunpowder would be rare/expensive so they wouldn't be used at the top of every battle, you'll want to save it for a real nasty bastard. It would make sense that armies would use them but for adventurers fighting up close skirmishes in cramped dungeons it wouldn't be such an overwhelming weapon.

>> No.73509831

>>73509089
More like the only good breechloaders at the time were hand-fitted masterworks and you couldn't afford to outfit an entire army with them. I don't think the skill went anywhere, they just weren't cost-effective. They were bought by rich individuals for hunting or showing off for sure.

>> No.73510281

>>73506307
Imagine how much these dudes would salivate if they got their hands on an ak-47

>> No.73510344

>>73507889
Yeah, guns don't scale with stats, until you realize that your barbarian is strong enough to carry and fire a 12 pound cannon.

>> No.73510391

assuming you either didn't care about explosions or could use magic to negate it, would it be possible to have breech-loading handgonnes with simple cartridges? Like, they're still inaccurate as fuck, clunky, not standardized, but they can shoot faster.

>> No.73510414
File: 95 KB, 1280x720, tiresome.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73510414

>>73509819
>you'll want to save it for a real nasty bastard
>but for adventurers fighting up close skirmishes in cramped dungeons it wouldn't be such an overwhelming weapon

>> No.73510441

>>73509819
>Takes about 45-60 seconds to reload after firing so you'd only get one chance to use it per fight.
Crossbows take longer than guns to reload. Why don't you treat crossbows the same way?

>> No.73510467

>>73510441
not that guy but the first result on google says 15-20 seconds is the reload rate for an experienced crossbowman.

>> No.73510543

>>73506637
It's a primitive fused bangstick for ye olde armored gators but it could be used against heavy cavalry in a pinch.

>> No.73510555

>>73504915
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJzxetbi9e8

holy roman empire and you can have it all

>> No.73510578

>>73505971
Horse archers?

>> No.73510594
File: 195 KB, 500x433, Medieval_Grenade_1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73510594

Same with grenades.

>> No.73510608
File: 173 KB, 500x422, Medieval_Grenade_2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73510608

>>73510594

>> No.73510616
File: 179 KB, 500x414, Medieval_Grenade_5.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73510616

>>73510608

>> No.73510626

>>73510467

It depends on the size of the crossbow.

>> No.73510641

>>73510391

If magic can negate bullets, why cant it negate arrows and bows. A wet bow isnt going to do shit. A rusty sword will crack.

>> No.73511019

>>73509033
He is retard

>> No.73512524
File: 14 KB, 450x180, ImpalaBlade.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73512524

>>73504915
guns are alright automobile + melee is true patrician

>> No.73512742

>>73507889
>but as far as firearms go, you don't get a stat bonus to damage- it's a gun.

Crossbows shouldn't scale with stats either then

>> No.73513204

>>73512742
I mean, higher strenght would improve your firing time.
For the same reason, skill and finesse would help you reload your gun faster and with less fuckups.

>> No.73513818

>>73509819
I was thinking about adding something like this to a game I'm planning. If you only add one as a rare item, or give it to an ally NPC for some fun, it's just flavour without being game-breaking.

>> No.73514329

>>73505672
>t.Obi Wan

>> No.73515139

>>73513204

Higher dex should increse accuracy and speed and maybe damage too.

>> No.73515182

>>73512742
To my mind it depends what sort of thing we're talking about here. If we're dealing with a musket/rifle type thing then DEX will play a significant role, both to fire accurately and to reload rapidly.

For a boomstick (better for sword and sorcery campaigns probably - literally just a tube filled with gunpowder and balls) it's more just point and shoot, and maybe a STR roll not to get knocked off your feet.

>> No.73515200

>>73515139
Accuracy should be based on intelligence either from the start or after a while. Because after a while simply point and shoot isn't what makes you a good shot, ability to calculate distance and remembering previous shots is.

>> No.73515386

>>73506548
Other way around. You fire off one shot as you are approached and after that it's an ax.
It saves you the time it takes to drop a pistol and raise an ax.

>> No.73515705

>>73507389
reliability and cost of manufacture.

>> No.73517647

>>73509819
desu the crossbow rules are good enough to simulate guns unless you want to be a realism fag about it.

I just treat them as high damage crossbows with some drawbacks from the noise if used in a enclosed area. Also useless for stealth.

>> No.73517654

>>73504915
>Muh aesthetics
Kys

>> No.73517756
File: 458 KB, 838x985, 1587935482129.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73517756

love me some trench knights

>> No.73517874

I'm a bigger fan of the Gun wielding samorai, as they actually used guns

>> No.73517880
File: 1.29 MB, 925x738, wwodencannon.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73517880

wooden cannons

>> No.73518895

>>73517647

I dont thik crossbows and bows are that stealthy either. You will hear someone's arrow flying and someone's bow.

>>
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