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/tg/ - Traditional Games

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[ERROR] No.73221014 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

How the fuck do we solve the mtg Kamigawa conundrum? If we strip down the setting to its conventional elements, we do an injustice to the source material, but if we try to represent ancient Japan in all its complexity, we alienate most players.

>> No.73221046

Imagine preferring shitty American ninja movie 80s aesthetics over Kamigawa's KINO war between the temporal and spiritual world.

>> No.73221179

The answer is to create another set which *does* alienate most players. I don't care about how badly it sells or if it introduces a mixture of the worst chaff printed and new jank on the order of Umezawa's Jitte, I just want to get a well-written D&D crossover supplement out of it.

>> No.73221208

> D&D

>> No.73221241

I just want shinto the set, no trans shit. Just spirits and priests and cool shit like onmoyodo

>> No.73221256


>> No.73221300 [DELETED] 

How mad would you be if a Japanese company made a game about cowboys without hiring cowboy-descendant game designers?

>> No.73221535

Wrong comparison because cowboys aren't a warrior caste. Plus the original kamigawa writers only hired a japanese concept artist to help them. They still had the wisdom and insight to actually make proper research and weren't fixated on shonen weebness.

>> No.73221649

Buuuuu.. but we need the black trans ninja, samurai, yokai representation anon. Remember all those black trans samurai in feudal japan?

>> No.73221730

Ironic given the amount of white shit the Japanese have "appropriated".

>> No.73221754

I've seen that tweet from /r/freemagic

Funny how these white people are talking among themselves about what will offend Japanese people, when most likely a Japanese player would probably think it'd be neat to have ninjas and shit in MTG too.

I'm reminded of this news:

About liberal whites protesting in a kimono exhibition complaining about whitewashing/cultural appropriation, only to face actual Japanese women showing up saying they don't agree with what they say and welcomed everyone to wear a kimono.

>> No.73221840

I’m European and I have no issue with the lesser races having fun in a bastardized version of medieval Europe

>> No.73221898

Appropriation requires power.

>> No.73221957

You could have just said you have no problem with 5e.

>> No.73221960

I find it so funny how racist "liberals" are. You could easily spin their ideals to support white supremacy.
>white people should not adopt or embrace anything from lesser cultures.
>black people are children/animals, so any black person who participates in arson or vandalism should not be judged as adult humans ("boys will be boys")
>blacks and whites should be separated from each other

The Japanese are very powerful. The Meiji Restoration is proof of that.

>> No.73222171

Please give me a set that alienates me. If I'm immersing myself in the world of magic, if I'm a planeswalker, I want to feel like I'm on a whole new world. I want to see cool shit I don't understand. I want to not understand references to history and legends because I want to believe they are their own characters.
I didn't understand shit about avatar besides the Air nomads are monks and the water tribe are eskimos. I didn't know what all the different martial arts that inspired the bending techniques were. I didn't understand that shit about chakras.

For the love of god, if I just get ninjas and magical girls and other anime shit I just won't give a flying fuck about any of it. I want a new world, not a theme park.That said, if they take anything from anime let it be lolis.

>> No.73222252


>Don't make shitty, bastardized copies of foreign cultures, be authentic and respectful.
>If you treat a group like shit for hundreds of years, don't cry crocodile tears if they hit back
>Organizations and places should be allowed to address specific problems among specific groups rather than forcing everything to be general, and this doesn't reflect society at large

>> No.73222701

Bro dreadlocks are considered cultural appropriation shut your whore mouth.

>> No.73222851

While I totally agree, Ninjas are probably my favorite archetype for Modern and having a broad range of ninjas mixed in with the overarching spirit war stuff could be a lot of fun. White Ninjas starting peasant revolts for tokens could be a whole lot of fun.

>> No.73223192

>twitter screenshots

>> No.73223452

Return to Kamigawa is simple as fuck and I don't get why Wizards hasn't done it yet
>Set it in modern day Kamigawa long after the Kami War
>Have it star Tamiyo because modern WoTC's gotta shill planeswalkers so you may as well use the one from the plane
>Plot is something is making the spirits on Kamigawa upset and it's up to Tamiyo and Jace to find out what's up, turns out a sect of Samurai are conspiring with a malicious spirit to try and bring the descendants of Toshiro Umezawa back to Kamigawa in order to start up some sort of larger conflict
>Returning set mechanics are Ninjitsu, Flip cards (Using the Innistrad/Ixalan style flip card design instead of the old Kamigawa style), and Legendary-matters
>New set mechanics are a new keyword for Samurai to replace Bushido and a revamped version of Arcane
>Have updated versions of some older characters like Michiko's combined form with Kyodai, new versions of the Spirit Dragons, Ink-Eye's successor, etc
>Have a mix of the old Kamigawa creature types (Rats, Snakes, Moonfolk, etc) but also incorporate some Japanese folklore/yokai stuff into some card design
>Showcase cards can either be in Ukiyo-e style or if WotC really wants to spurge on cash hire a bunch of mangakas from Shonen Jump to do the alt art and really draw in the weeb crowd

>> No.73223478

Please no I don't want to actually have to buy the $250 Araki Hirohiko version of some shitty mythic that fucks up modern beyond repair.

>> No.73223532

That’s a special case caused by white people damaging their hair and thinking its the same thing as dreadlocks. Anyone who has the hair texture to wear dreads can do it.

>> No.73223537

Because the first one did not do well sales wise (Hell I remember my shop having saviors for like 1.25 a pack for years after it came out, same with unhinged), but they don't realize that it was a completely different era where Magic was far less popular overall plus the competitive scene was dying after OP Mirrodin block crap. Like what percentage of current players even played back then? Maybe 10%?

>> No.73223584

>Twitter screencap
What is this, /v/?

>> No.73223612

>new jank on the order of Umezawa's Jitte

People couldn't pronounce the name of this card though. According to Rosewater, this is a big problem.

>> No.73223633

>but they don't realize that it was a completely different era where Magic was far less popular overall plus the competitive scene was dying after OP Mirrodin block crap

I think many mtg players are more educated today too with omnipresent video streams. They can bear a bit more complexity than before in terms of the non-mechanical.

>> No.73223638

There are people who pronounce Beleren wrong.

>> No.73223704

How would Kamigawa alienate players? And why would having ninjas and samurai be an injustice?

Gimme Shinto priests waving around those sticks with paper on them and kami that represent every little and big thing in the world. I want a UG Kamigawa God that dips his spear into the ocean to create land masses and I also want figures like Musashi and Benkei. And I'm sure people who like Magic who live in Japan would dig this sort of stuff too.

It's a celebration of their culture. How is that bad?

>> No.73223729

So if I start pronouncing MaRo’s name wrong , does that mean they’ll get rid of him?

>> No.73223733

>>If you treat a group like shit for hundreds of years, don't cry crocodile tears if they hit back
Oh yes, gibs and free college and preferential quotas, how terrible.

>> No.73223866

Here is whats going to happen in a few years:
>everything non-white will be cultural appropriation
>no non-white character will be "diverse" enough
>SJW-clusterfuck catch22 where no one knows what is "poltically correct" anymore
>creators will fall back to medieval european culture and fantasy because it seems the least offensive
>creators will fall back to white characters and white villains because it will be the least offensive

Its going to happen in the next 5 years due to the accelerating leftist purity-spiral.
You heard it here first, screenshot this post.

>> No.73224071

Faggots that know nothing about shinto will never understand what made kamigawa so good.

>> No.73224081

>but if we try to represent ancient Japan in all its complexity, we alienate most players.
What makes learning lore based on Japan any different from learning the lore of MTG, W40k, the smorgasboard of D&D settings, and other works of fiction?

>> No.73224100

SJW "White people should not get involved in other people's cultural heritage."
Klansman "Sounds good to me."

>> No.73224113

Ukiyo-e showcases would be pretty close to peak, but sumi-e would be absolutely patrician.

>> No.73224126

>those sticks with paper on them

>> No.73224146

Is it "er" as in "stern" with accent on the third syllable or "er" said like "air" with accent on the second?

>> No.73224149

Yeah, those. Thanks anon.

>> No.73224206

Yeah, no.

>> No.73224218

Can someone explain to me how a real-world religious symbol like a Torii is ok in modern day mtg? Think about the double standard.

Is it because the Japanese are a peaceful people who never did anything wrong?

>> No.73224222

>>If you treat a group like shit for hundreds of years, don't cry crocodile tears if they hit back
If my people treat your people like shit, don't take your rage out on me. I had nothing to do with it nor the power to change it.

>> No.73224256


I'm sorry, but why is a white women named Athena appropriating the cultural struggles of Japanese people?

>> No.73224261

For starters, you'd need the thriving L5R CCG scene back with Kami was being pushed.

>> No.73224291

Like fresh prince according to nosewater

>> No.73224294

Japan in general has no problem with foreigners taking an interest or participating in their culture. As long as you're respectful about it or at least make a sincere effort to do so they wont mind most of your faux pas. Unlike Abrahamics and Hindus they don't lash out at people who do so.

>> No.73224390

The Kamigawa crew is back
Tellin’ you that MaRo’s wack
“Kamigawa? Didn’t that do bad in market research?”
No, no, no, let us explain the deets first
Kamigawa came after mirrodin
Don’t blame a block for another block’s sin!
“You’re telling me it’s power but what about the flavor?
Names like ‘Untaidake’ didn’t do the audience a favor”
Now listen here mouthbreather
You simpleton
What an absolute moron
Such a fucked opinion
Kamigawa’s flavor was the dopest shit
It was ONLY the mechanics where it took a hit
“I thought the polling made it perfectly clear
Mechanics AND flavor are the downfalls here”
MaRo’s an idiot, he’s wrong and blind
He can’t see that the audience has evolved with time!
So listen to us, the Kamigawa crew
We’ll return to Kamigawa (and Lorwyn too)

>> No.73224540

>Twitter cancellation n999999999
Still, it didn't sell well before, and it won't sell if not filled with Samurai shit and Naruto tier "japanese culture"

>> No.73224546

This, for the most part. Increasingly there's a lot of places where Japanese locals are WAY less patient with westerners. Okinawa in particular has a real duality to it, where if you're a 'typical westerner' you get the cold shoulder, but if you do it right you might literally find yourself invited into someone's home for dinner. It was fucking wild how hospitable people there could be if you're just not an asshole.

>> No.73224549

Kamigawa should never be redone. MtG is such a dumpster fire they'd just fuck it up. Let it stay pristine.

>> No.73224589

>>Don't make shitty, bastardized copies of foreign cultures, be authentic and respectful.
fuck off, literally no one besides middle class white dudes care if someone takes an aspect of their culture and adds it to their fantasy setting.
Time and time again, you faggots act offended on behalf of actual minorities who would in fact welcome seeing aspect of their cultures anywhere.

>> No.73224614

Whites are racist!

>Meanwhile on Japanese television.

>> No.73224690

So much this. Also please, never return Phyrexia. Let it be. Just look at Kaladesh, they had all the chance to make an interesting setting with nods to obscure Indian mythology and culture and what did they do? Curry-Ravnica

>> No.73224710

wait what? why did he apologized? holy shit we need a nuke, a meteorite or a war

>> No.73224736

He was right to apologize, unironically liking the idea of a fucking ninja spirit dragon. Seriously fuck that guy.

>> No.73224788

>have no facebook, twitter or any of that cancerous shit
>change jobs and enter a better, aka pays way better, company
>HR asks me like 20 times if I have social media (twitter, facebook, etc)
>20 times I tell them no
>"...but you're going to create an account, right?"
>Me "no, why?"
>literally looks at me like I'm a rapist or assassin
You're hiring me over my resume and skills not what I do in my free time you motherfuckers

>cooworkers can't stop asking me where to find me when I'm not in the office
>Me "here's my company's number, I have it always on"
>"No, we mean social media"
Fuck off

>> No.73224820

I thought wotc had a defense for this when people were calling out certain blocks for the obscene amount of gays, women or blacks (depending on which block we are talking about) being represented in positions of power and so forth
And it was something akin to "this is our take on a realm that happens to be similar to the real world's version of x"
So, by that logic, we could have a whole weeb plane of skaven ninjas and honorable samurai duels.

>> No.73224832

Just start emailing articles about all those times Facebook datamined their users to the office.

>> No.73224835

Kami are boring on every level: their look, their mechanics, their personality (or lack thereof,) and above all how they were half of all creatures in the goddamn block. Imagine if Lorwyn was 50% elementals or Ravnica was 50% weirds. It was that bad. Any kind of complex human drama would have been both more authentic and more exciting. It'd be a double win.

>> No.73225007

>>SJW-clusterfuck catch22 where no one knows what is "poltically correct" anymore

We are kind of there right now

>> No.73225033


You'd think so.

>> No.73225066


That would be very based.

>> No.73225406

Yeah like the "problem" with Kamigawa is just it was too artsy for the players. The things that made it better as a set made it less accessible. If you want a set like that you will alienate people.

>> No.73225705

>Imagine if Lorwyn was 50% elementals or Ravnica was 50% weirds.
>Lorwyn was a setting about the war between the elementals and the other seven tribes
>Ravnica was a setting about the war between 9 guilds and the weirds

>> No.73225806

You know it was Wizards' choice to have Kamigawa block be a war of spirits against everyone else, right? It didn't have to be that way. Also, the cards in a set don't have to be in the same proportion as the populations of the creatures they represent. Invasion block was considerably less than 50% Phyrexians and much better for it.

>> No.73225937

People have been pronouncing it wrong for years and it hasn't made a difference.

For the record, his mother pronounces it more like Marik Ross Waiter.

>> No.73225992

In the instances where 'Asians' actually take part in this bullshit it's funnily enough always some 4th generation immigrant who has zero actual connection to the culture they're purporting to 'defend' while natives who live immersed in that culture never give a singular shit.

>> No.73226447

>Also, the cards in a set don't have to be in the same proportion as the populations of the creatures they represent.
That's literally racist!

>> No.73227824

Speaking of which, will nu-kamigawa be filled with afro-samurai and indian-ninjas?

>> No.73227921

Americans forget that Britain is a real place with real people.

It’s not just a bastardisation of lord of the rings with knights and elves.

Ban the entire Eldraine block.

>> No.73228114

Holy shit, I thought (or at least hoped) Evan was being ironic, holding a mirror up to Wizards and perhaps the playerbase.

The other tweet in the OP also gets at something that came to my mind. The idea that with a return to Kamigawa, Wizards will look to the culture of anime and manga and not realize that while they're inspired by Japanese culture, they've also increasingly been inspired by just the industry.

>> No.73228170

They can probably only blackwash european stuff like in theros. Doing so with other cultures would be racist. But who knows.

>> No.73228211

>explain to me how appropriating non-dark-skinned cultural symbols is ok
Because the SJWs aren't getting people fired over it

That's literally all this is. Even actual black MTG players don't get that mad about this sort of thing.

>> No.73228368

Unless they drew inspiration from Kamigawa, I'm tempted to say its ignorance on Wizards' part. Other pieces of it could be that only Japan practices Shinto and supposedly not to the same level as adherents of other religions. Alternatively, the people who would get offended by Shinto iconography are either a lot less than those who would get offended by Abrahamic, Hindu, or Buddhist iconography or again, Wizards is just ignorant and not aware of the landmine they're stepping on.

>> No.73228386

Fat black samurai women will alienate the core audience anyway.

>> No.73228459

Did Ahmonket have any races that looked out of place? I would not be surprised if Wizards' current MO is that European inspired settings are fine to be multiracial, but everything or almost everything else has to be monoracial so they don't get shit on.

>> No.73228501

lol Imagine being this much of a faggot cuck.

>> No.73228532

>My Western Education
Don't blame the rest of us for your shitty opinion you culturally imperialist cunt

>> No.73228649

I dont want to go back to lorwyn because im afraid that they'll fuck up lorwyn

>> No.73228679

>literally looks at me like I'm a rapist or assassin
Oh, thats because if you don't have social media they can't police what you're doing in your free time, and this kills the HR rep

>> No.73228694

>I would not be surprised if Wizards' current MO is that European inspired settings are fine to be multiracial, but everything or almost everything else has to be monoracial so they don't get shit on.

Their MO is to dance to the hysterical raving of SJWs and hope they don't get cancelled

>> No.73228725

Everyone hated egyptian plane people looking like african americans. That's why Basri looks the way he looks.

Everyone but left coast self-hating white hormone blobs hates blackwash, those people don't buy shit other than soi lattes and kale. Black people don't play Magic cause it's expensive and JotC won't spare a shekel so there is no actual audience to capture with their bullshit. And what's happening right now in lootmerica is souring the asian and hispanic markets even more against black representation.

If they dare have Kaldheim come after Zen3, and it's blackwashed, they're digging their grave.

>> No.73228743

I will never get tired of seeing the black kid stance the fuck up with his d10(?) out of spite

>> No.73228758

>they're digging their grave.
You mean like didn’t already happen these last 2 years? You fuck really are oblivious

>> No.73228771

>Please give me a set that alienates me.
This is the correct, impossible solution. MTG has monkey-pawed itself into a zillion-dollar Brand, and Brands don't do alienation. That's basically the answer to every /tg/ ragepost about FIRE or fat people or planeswalkers or whatever: you like the tabletop game equivalent of a summer blockbuster. You're just not getting arthouse shit anymore.

If no one's complaining that their traditions aren't being respected, then we're being respectful! "Don't be a dick, and if people tell you you're being a dick, take them seriously (even if you decide they're wrong)."

The, like, 200 outrage addicts (who are all on twitter) pushing absurd cultural purity rules are being stupid, but so's everyone getting outraged back. All the people coming in here with their new super clever ad absurdum to Own The Libs is just jerking off. Don't be a jerkoff.

>> No.73228789

The last two years weren't the peak of a worldwide economic recession. Q1 2021 is.

>> No.73228798

Spoilers, their grave has a big fucking treasure chest full of treasury notes addressed to hasbro at the bottom

>> No.73228830

>2019 was the peak of an economic recession
This is your brain on fearmongering
>2020 killing the game with retarded decisions had nothing to do with the decline despite burgers still impulse buying a bunch of shit cards
Yeah no you’re full of shit

>> No.73228866

You don't get it, anon. I, a white dude with weirdly strong feelings about imaginary women's weight, have tastes identical to the vast majority of collectable card game buyers. If I don't like it, who will possibly buy their shit?

>> No.73228872

The shill can't read lol

>> No.73228921

We ban the setting and scrub it from the game because its pure trash anime cancer shit?

>> No.73228935

>critizice wotc
>no ur a shill
Based fucking retard

>> No.73228980

By making it a supplemental set, so your sales metrics are lower.
Something like Modern Horizons, but all the cards have Kamigawa flavor.

>> No.73229081

>Meanwhile France and Japan are still furiously fapping to each other

>> No.73229606

Except that Kamigawa always did the expansive vaguely japanese stuff well. The point is that the setting ISN'T just ninja and samurai. The myriad kami, kitsune, and normal ass people are all a testament to that. That dude did totally deserve to get called out. The spirit war was really cool. Even if soul shift as a mechanic was more or less worthless outside of maybe two combos.

>> No.73229659

I mean there was a black samurai but he had his dick intact

>> No.73229668

Print it anyways, make it good, and tell anyone who finds it shit to fuck off to a different hobby. Most people blindly buy magic products anyways, so it's not like sales are going to hurt.

>> No.73229675

What does that mean?

>> No.73229700

It means only the dominate race, whites, can appropriate things.

>> No.73229705

>shonen jump
He does seinen now so I wouldn't be worried about it

>> No.73229726

If we punch WotC and Hasbro employees in the crotch until they make an actually good set that we want, will it be worth the effort?

>> No.73229727

>caring about pronunciation
Dude no one in my LGS can even agree on how to pronounce Jace's full name or Nicol Bolas (nickel bowl-ass? Nee-col bowl-us?)

>> No.73229789

>Print it anyways, make it good, and tell anyone who finds it shit to fuck off to a different hobby.

>> No.73229803

Whites are 18% of the population

>> No.73229809

It means it's only bad when whites do it

When someone barges into white spaces, steals white culture, or maligns the entire white race, that's justice and it's okay. When whites do it to any other group, it's appropriation and racism.

Understand? It's bad when whites do it, and good when anyone else does it to whites.

Now stop worrying about anti-white racism and get back to egging on the cultural demolition of your own people. You're evil and complicit no matter what, so that's the only way to redeem yourself for the crimes of your race.

>> No.73229812

Never forget when they printed O-Kagachi and it was shittier than its imprisoned child

>> No.73229814

>That long-winded text on that sign
These people are neurotic and narcissistic byproducts of prescription pills and a life of brainwashing.

>inb4 "no u" fag pops xer head in

Keeping on topic: TQ
My commander is Spirit of Night
Pic related

>> No.73229845

You're not in the commander thread anon

>> No.73229878

Nice echo-chambering, kiddo

>> No.73229936

To be completely fair, there were also young asian americans also protesting. It's a pretty complex topic, honestly. Any real fault lies with how the MFA decided to originally host the event.

>> No.73229950

Thank, God.

>> No.73229967

What's the difference between seinen and shonen? The intended age range?

>> No.73230085

How far is CHAZ from their offices? Gated community woketards 180 as soon as the shit flinging they promote reaches their garden.

>> No.73230148

If coddled asian-americans say blue and first gen asian migrants say red, I'm siding red. It's exactly the same shit as chicanos talking about Aztlan and reclaiming California for the Aztec empire when they don't even know what an Aztec is, who the Mexica were and where the fuck in Mexico their empire was.

>> No.73230303

About 12 miles.

>> No.73230686

I mean, I mostly agree. All the older people seemed to be of the opinion that the younglings jumped up without all the context, and then got entrenched. Good energy, but they should have done some actual research.

>> No.73230853

>It's not a bastardization of anime, ninjas, and samurai designed for white people to appropriate.
But these are made by japanese people. Why a more in depth look on their culture is not appropriation while surface level shit is if it's going to be done by white people anyway

Most important, I bet japanese people don't give shit, they're too busy bastardasing european fantasy anyway

>> No.73231063


>> No.73231419

Can't appropriate white culture because it doesn't exist.

>> No.73231460

Focus gameplay on a specific facet of the setting that is easily digestible - Samurai, for example. Pendragon does something similar with knights and while that game is anachronistic to RL history it does fit the source material well.

This restricts both what parts of society the players interact with and the means by which they do so.

You might also consider adding fantasy elements which allows you to place your characters outside of the society, letting them interact with it in bite-sized chunks Ars Magica takes this approach to 1220 Europe by having players be wizards. Maybe sages or ninja mystics for Japan?

>> No.73231860

>Good energy, but they should have done some actual research.
Dude, they're just parasitised by the Social Justice memeplex. It's nothing to do with injustice, it's about signalling piety.

>> No.73231951

I was asking what's the difference between surface level shit and in depth representations of a culture if in any case it will be done by white people. Isn't it just appropriation with more effort?

I know you're baiting, but it's really hard to keep track of all those changes of definitions for these SJW words. Do people still talk about mansplaining?

>> No.73232065

The difference is how riled up the SJWs are feeling at that moment in time

If they like a thing that's offensive it's "campy" or "charming". Otherwise it gets the hysterical shrieking treatment.

>> No.73232092

We may have to wait a few years to answer this question, at least until the world regains it's sanity. Now is not the time.

>> No.73232136

Just ignore the sensitive people. Caving never makes them go away anyway. I get people are afraid of the mob, but goddamn. Have some dignity. How can he even look himself in the mirror?
Ethnically Japanese women in university who consume a shitload of western media care.

>> No.73232304

He wasn't a samurai, actually. Just a retainer (aka court sideshow)

>> No.73232977

No, you don't get it, man. You spending years mastering and understanding something from another culture, that's just cultural appropriation. They putting on a kimono or something once and posing for photos, that's deep appreciation for the culture and understanding it deeply.

>> No.73233041

>little Tom
Oh you!

>> No.73233066

Kami are the best incarnations of spirits in magic, we need more esoteric bullshit instead of sad dead guy #454

>> No.73233067


>> No.73233210

>How do we solve the Kamigawa problem
Kamigawa was great in terms of aesthetic, and I'd love to see them take it even further in terms of lore and whatnot. There was a portion of the playerbase that hated it for being weeb but they'd hate it in a reductionist version too, so its not fixing anything

It was mostly unpopular because of mechanical problems. It came out after Mirrodin too and happened to be a fucking giant step down in terms of power (i.e. it wasn't broken). Additionally, there was weird shit like Arcane or Soulshift that didn't work with things from outside the block, plus some defunct mechanics like Epic

>> No.73233226

You mean literally any version of DnD? At no point has DnD fantasy reflected the medieval aesthetic correctly, just look at fucking "chain mail"

>> No.73233321

It's not really a religious symbol in and of itself, and it's used in the same context in that artwork as it is in the real world (i.e. marking the transition from outside a shrine to inside, like a set of cathedral doors)
As for why it's in M21, I have no fucking idea, but it's clearly hinting at Kamigawa to some degree with the haiku at the bottom
You forgot to include butthurt Christians, if Jesus got printed in a card they'd fucking lose their minds the same way they though magic was satanic back in the day

>> No.73233382

Shepherd of the Flock feels like it's a reference to Jesus.

>> No.73233584

That's actually a good point to bring up, they just straight up rip off other card games whenever they think they can get away with it. Now they're ripping off Keyforge. That begs the question: what's the next rip off going to be? Maybe the recent uptick in computer card battle games could clue them in on some untapped market that they can weasel their way into?

>> No.73233848

>How the fuck do we solve the mtg Kamigawa conundrum? If we strip down the setting to its conventional elements, we do an injustice to the source material, but if we try to represent ancient Japan in all its complexity, we alienate most players.
You're not a content producer for whatever this gay ass shit is. Do whatever the fuck you want. If you are an actual writer I'd advise you to not concern yourself with Twitter's vast homosexual agenda and make whatever you want, regardless.

>> No.73235479

Just fucking make a magic set with cool shit like samurai and yokais and ninjas. You don't have to represent the culture perfectly. You didn't do it with Theros, you didn't do it with Kaladesh. It's just JAPANESE-INSPIRED. Is everyone fucking retarded? Actually, don't answer that

>> No.73235656

>If no one's complaining that their traditions aren't being respected,
THe problem is that the people complaining about it aren't the people whose traditions are being used.

>The, like, 200 outrage addicts
you mean the people the vast majority of corporations actively listens to? Unfortunately for the world, the twitter mob has actual power now. Those 200 people have constantly gotten corporations to change things in their products (generally for the worse).
I don't see how you're aware that MTG is a Brand that can't afford do alienate anybody, and yet you don't realize that modern Brands (almost literally) bend their knee to the vocal minority on twitter all the fucking time.

>> No.73235708

Ignore progressives.
Remove progressives.
If necessary, fire progressives that are within your company, preferably out of some kind of cannon.

Then take a long, slow sigh of relief, turn to your battered fanbase and go 'Look I know we've been wrong to you in the past but all that changes now, give us a chance to turn this shit show around and I promise, we know which side of our bread has the butter.'
Pretty simple really.

>> No.73235736

I guess they're top tier to the point of being imba or something. personally I preferred the guns germs and steel explanation for the disparity in civilizational achievement but apparently white supremacists, libertarians (but maybe I repeat myself) and woke types absolutely detest jared diamond

>> No.73235738

I fucking despise twitter and anybody who posts anything but art there

>> No.73235816

This is something I'm sure somebody would get upset about if the majority of idiots knew that a torii gate had religious connotations and wasn't just a pretty aesthetic the Japanese just use

>> No.73235836

There is no conundrum. Kamigawa was inspired by Japanese thematics, but it ain't Japan. You don't have to recreate the entire culture to be inspired by a facet of it. Holy shit, the retardation.

>> No.73235850


>> No.73235851

Well there was a white card in the M21 spoilers that featured a black Jeskai monk so you tell me

>> No.73235916


>> No.73236014

Sorry, it's actually blue
Initially I thought she was an Abzan defector, since they tend to be Indian-ish and can have darker skin, but that lady has cornrows so I'm assuming they were going for black

>> No.73236072

Well there's the fact that Diamond was completely unqualified to write such a book (he has a degree in a related field that's 60 years old, taught geography without a degree in it, and no experience with evolutionary biology) and the book itself is unsourced which should be anathema in any field but he got a pass because of personal charisma or something. And after a few years some people started noticing that he was just making up facts (which even got him accused of racism despite being up to that time a point of reference for woke people). He should be regarded as a pop-sci writer and not taken seriously by anyone.

>> No.73236087

Don't forget how minorities and women are so feeble they LITERALLY cannot compete so we give them easier grades and cheaper tuition in STEM fields

>> No.73236109

Did Khans sell like complete shit? Kamigawa's problem is that the cards were so insular and crap that I never wanted more despite how much I loved the ones I had.

>> No.73236136

Not really, Khans was one of a string of record-breaking blocks.

>> No.73236171

Yes. Shonen is for young boys. Seinen is for older boys // adults. Mid highschool +, which is why they're either more violent, have non-explicit sex and cover darker, or introspective topics or be actual romance works. As opposed to the Shonen, Friendship + Adventure "my MC literally doesn't think about romance" "you can't kill your enemys or you'll be like them" et al.
Same with Shoujo and Josei respectively

>> No.73236193


>> No.73236208

Wish I had been able to capture everything before he deleted the tweet. This is all I got.

>> No.73236220

Thanks for reminding me about this fucking awful art too by the way chief

>> No.73236274

So why is "alienating" even part of the discussion?

>> No.73236288


I played ninjas exclusively but if they drop samurai and spirits then shit is going to be gay.

>> No.73236303

I knew /pol/niggers were plebs from their shit taste against Teferi, Mirage, etc, but now you retards are rallying against Kamigawa and hoping for weeb ninja shit only?

You find newer ways to stoop lower than ever. The SJWs are LITERALLY righter than you. In an alternate universe where Wizards would cater to you idiots rather than SJWs, anyone with taste would be much worse off.

The only people with any sense in this thread are: >>73221046 >>73229606 and me

Kill everyone else that posted here.

>> No.73236582

>I'm an Irish-American myself, and I say...
Those people are literally parodies of themselves.

>> No.73236867

It always remind me of an article I read about an Irish-American who went to Ireland and had a mental breakdown because everybody there called him a yankee.

>> No.73237789

Is it this one?

>> No.73237814

Thanks for the input, woman that doesn't look at all Japanese.

>> No.73238086

>but now you retards are rallying against Kamigawa and hoping for weeb ninja shit only
I think you're confusing one random twitter burger with random internet nazis.
The guy who suggested it was clearly your average dumb american and he went woke with apologies a few angry tweets later.
If anything, SJWs are probably going to apeshit when they realize using shinto symbols is cultural appropriation.

>> No.73239166

Shinto is kind of distinct from other "big religions" in that it's just a bunch of rituals and that there's no one, true canon.

>> No.73239279

>whenever deals combat damage
at CMC6 withou haste? eh…
>if that player attacked you during their last turn
wtf,are they actively trying to make this terrible?
>nonland permanent

god, this card is shit.

>> No.73239377

>Shinto is kind of distinct from other "big religions" in that it's just a bunch of rituals and that there's no one, true canon.
>No one true canon
>Different from other religions
You'd be surprised there. Canon is, at best, rather a hotly debated thing in most major faiths.

>> No.73239408

>I played ninjas exclusively but if they drop samurai and spirits then shit is going to be gay.
Honestly, it wouldn't be hard (Or even inaccurate) to retcon Samurai to Knight and Ninja to Rogue (Like how Hounds are now Dogs). It would get them some more out-of-set support by tying them to larger tribes and it would be still plenty fitting.

>> No.73240417

>/pol/ obsession
>SJWs are right
>applying taste to politics
what the actual fuck are you even on about?
where the fuck does right and left wing even come in in all this?
you're such a ginormous faggot it hurts to read your retard post

>> No.73240451

damnit fucking Euro don't make me laugh like that

>> No.73241645

You'er a fuckin' idiot.

What >>73238086 says is correct.
Your irrational hatred for the ever-lurking internet nazis has blinded you to the fact that the dude suggesting going back to Kamigawa and making it ninja only was your average 'lol so random' idiot from reddit who immediately cucked and prostrated himself in the face of being accused of a racial no-no. That ain't a nazi. No one here agrees with his simple view, we just don't like power tripping keyboard warriors dictating what we can and can't have in a fantasy setting, and that doesn't mean anyone here wants to establish a new empire for their people and to reclaim the fatherland.
Nice spacing, btw.
If you hate /pol/ and weebs so much, why are you even on 4chan? I could think of much friendlier places on the internet than here.
p.s. once Rosewater is fired in the coming purity-spiral purge at wotc, we are going to go back to Kamigawa when Hasbro clears house.

>> No.73242162

>No one here agrees with his simple view, we just don't like power tripping keyboard warriors dictating what we can and can't have in a fantasy setting
The power tripping keyboard warriors are the ones rightfully telling him to fuck off, dumbass. There's more posts in this thread crying about the people telling him he's stupid than the actual stupid retard. Pathetic.

>> No.73245432


>> No.73245457

/pol/ never threw a shitfit over tever or mirage stop lying

>> No.73245483


>> No.73245499

Don't do this. Next you are going to suggest removing color identity in edh.

>> No.73245552

When was the last time Christians gained any ground in anything and why is the goalposts always shifted to Christians as a boogeyman?

>> No.73245652

Because the religious symbols of a Torii weren't the problem. I get you're too stupid to understand, but I'm gonna try anyways.

The problem with Crusade was a combination of both the historical realities of what the crusades were, combined with the fact that white nationalists love to lionize the crusades and paint themselves as crusaders.

If you want an example of Christian (specifically Catholic) imagery that's still okay in Magic, think about something like Icon of Ancestry. Stained Glass, especially in this kind of framing, is VERY catholic.
Or if you want something else that's Christian? Swords to Plowshares. Which is from Isaiah 2:4.

That's why a Torii is fine.

>> No.73245780

>Stained Glass, especially in this kind of framing, is VERY catholic.
A very racist and white-centric stance to take, asshole.

>> No.73246311

>the historical realities of what the crusades were
and yet Cathar's Crusade is untouched, having just as much if not more historical relevance because it's even more specific than Crusade

>> No.73246384

Kamigawa's problem were mechanical. If it wasn't such a weak set and had such unrealized mechanics, it would of been received well. no other changes needed

>> No.73247109

I would not mind that.

>> No.73247463

In Star Trek: TNG, Irish actor Colm Meaney was cast to play an "Irish character", so he initially adopted a fake New York accent assuming that's what they meant, and was genuinely surprised when they told him that his character was actually from Ireland.

Then they wrote an episode of DS9 where his character summoned a leprechaun.
>Michael Piller recalled his modifications to the script to placate Meaney: "We needed a reason for it to be happening and we came up with the idea that O'Brien would be telling a bedtime story about a leprechaun. We had the script written, and Colm Meaney called Rick [Berman] and said, 'Every Irish actor I know has worked his entire life to overcome the stereotype of Irish people and leprechauns. It's really racist, and I don't want to do it.' We had no idea there was any sensitivity to leprechauns in the Irish culture and certainly we did not want to force Colm Meaney to act with a leprechaun, but what the hell do you do after you've got a whole story structured around a leprechaun stealing a child? Well, we went through story tales and Robert [Hewitt Wolfe] came in with Rumpelstiltskin, and we went by it at least once, maybe twice, because Rumpelstiltskin wasn't exactly the same thing and wouldn't work in the structure we had. When I finally sat down to rewrite it, I said, 'Okay, Rumpelstiltskin – let's see where it goes.' It was one of those scripts where I had no idea how to resolve it or where it was going to go. I wrote each scene to see if it worked and had fun with it."

>> No.73247547

>Kami are boring on every level: their look
Opinion instantly discarded. Kami have some of the coolest and most memorable designs in Magic.

>> No.73247625

Years later, he was somehow convinced to play a leprechaun in a movie called "The Magical Legend of the Leprechauns". It was set in Ireland, but not filmed there, and all the other Irish characters are played by American or English actors (including an Irish ancestor spirit being played by Whoopi Goldberg).

>> No.73247654


This does not fill me with ire.

>> No.73247726

>sagas are tailor made for kamigawa
she's right, you know

>> No.73251950

Please no, I love both those blocks. they will fuck them up

>> No.73253353

I'm starting to think the problem with X-Americans and "representation" is the Americans.

>> No.73253528

This sad faggot and Ludevic are the reason I completely gave up on MtG. I only play with my wife’s family at the kitchen table and have made maybe one new deck in the last year or two from cards I bought second hand

>> No.73253581

>ninjas and samurai aren’t cool anymore because muh mighty whitey feelings

God I fucking hate you white man burden shitters

>> No.73253625


araki would be cool. i'd like to see hoshikori do something too; some of those mha pages look fucking fantastic.

>> No.73253685

>> No.73253691


I do not want to go back to Kamigawa. Wizards will not get it right. It will modernized anime bullshit, and not strange shinto otherworldliness. The story will involve planeswalkers in some manner, and it will effect the fate of the plane and be unsatisfying. We won’t get the strange kabuki-styled Kitsune, they’ll be anthro-ized. It’ll all be terrible.

>> No.73253724

>bad moon
>makes black stronger
>implying black is bad
Ummmm problematic much???

>> No.73253774

>Apologizing for being excited for a set
Magic was a mistake, it's nothing but trash.

>but if we try to represent ancient Japan in all its complexity, we alienate most players.
Alienate away. Fuck the people that can't "get" Kamigawa.

>> No.73253809

This. The kami shit was fantastic and I cant believe it came from fucking WOTC.

>> No.73253815

you must be new

>> No.73253912


Lean into the "Theme Park Japan" a little bit more and say it's based on anime, or even go as far as to say "It's based on how a lot of spaghetti westerns are rip-offs of Samurai movies so there are cowboy ninjas with six-shooters that shoot kunais" or something, which is a bit of a stretch but still.

The issue is presenting it as "we heavily researched real ancient Japan" whereas if you went "it's based on Japanese pop culture and anime" you could have all the fucking ninjas you wanted.

It's similar to how you could make Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Slayer and its fine, but if the Daniel Day Lewis Lincoln Movie had a vampire in it everyone would be baffled.

>> No.73254122


I don’t want Theros style “Theme Park Japan” for Kamigawa.

>> No.73254337

Or instead they can put some effort into a set it instead of watching the most relevant disney movie they can find on the subject matter and going from there

>> No.73254523


Yeah, but it's Magic. No matter how heavily researched your study of Japan, you still got to fill it with a bunch of wizards and shit

>> No.73254895

Someone edit this to be a MAGA hat.

>> No.73255234

all of 4chan is reacting to twitter threads now
all of table top os reacting to twitter posts (ie sucking bbc)

the internet being available to the masses was a fucking mistake.

>> No.73255288

because japan has real culture while niggers dont and have to make pretend over shit like dreds or lips being too big in a cartoon.

>> No.73255308

I mean, that literally is the case for non-Asian minorities, they have been unable to compete. Such programs exist to hide that fact.

>> No.73255331

It's good to be bad.

>> No.73255596

HR is a bs institution and needs to be abolished. Why the fuck are people unqualified for the actual job who probably dont even know what it is the person they are interviewing will be doing in charge or hiring?

>> No.73255663

HR is for the women quota of the company. Ause 'muh equality " especially if you get govt Grant's for your business.

>> No.73255740

>One guy really likes ninjas and magic, wants to see them combined in his favorite card game
>Everyone else takes things too seriously

Twitter everyone, where everyone takes themselves way too seriously.

>> No.73255827

>realities of what the crusades were
retaliation for hundereds of years of islamic invasion and killings of jewish and christian pilgrims?

>> No.73255843

the worse part is what HR is "for" (protecting people from assholes in the company) never is used that way. The company uses them to get a better case against the "victim" to save their asses. Snakes all of em.

>> No.73255930

And, of course, is a white girl saying nonsensei

>> No.73256072

I would fucking hate for return to Ravnagawi to be a thing.
The actually setting is great without ninja guilds.

>> No.73256099

The fucking art in Kamigawa was atrocious. All the spirits are just amalgamations of body parts.
The literal who in that tweet is a cuck for bending the knee to that woke cunt

>> No.73256101

White girls are utterly broken. They actively welcome incel trannies in their bathrooms and hilariously scream about cultural appropriation of non-white shit. I have no other recourse but to think they are just broken in this current year.

My industry is the same. It's a purity test thing. They actively want to judge what you tweet, what you do and what you like. This shit is self imposed 1984 and I still can't get over anyone caring what the shit anyone thinks online let alone celebrities or people I don't know.

Ironically, the only opinions I tend to listen to are anons here. Because there is no ego attached. There is no updoot. It's purely someone's express opinion or experience (even if it's shit or bait) and all are made equal by the virtue of having no name attached. I thought I would grow out of 4chan now that I'm 30, but I've doubled down even further. I'm here. I'm used to it. I'll probably still be here when I'm 60 at this point, lads.

>> No.73256119

>what HR is "for" (protecting people from assholes in the company)
That's not how you spell "covering the company's ass in case of litigation".

>> No.73256129

>Set it in modern day Kamigawa long after the Kami War
Anon, that was thousands of years ago, and umezawa wasn't that important of a character to the world.
Second off, because it was thousands of years ago and a war would have drastically changed how people interact with and trust kami, the setting would be closer to cyber punk with spirit slaves, or at the very least with spirits left alone and nobody left to worship them or give them offerings.
Best thing I can think of is cyberpunk Japan with corporate ninjas in a world finally feeling the effects of the myojin of nights reach dying.

>> No.73256366

Where did all the love for Kamigawa come from? It was what made me quit magic more than 15 years ago.

>> No.73256505

You know this kind of thing reminds me of when Speedy Gonzales got banned in Mexico, and Mexicans responded with national outcry.

The last people these guys seem to ask are the actual people that would be affected.

>> No.73256529

Twitter posts come from 2% of the american population.
Why the fuck do you allow that cesspool if festering shit to continue existing?

>> No.73256575

The people in that culture don't have to put up with the shit the people who are minorities do. Of course Chinese people in China feel differently about white people getting on traditional Chinese dresses to Chinese-Americans.

>> No.73256653

Create an empty as fuck account with a fake name (who uses their real name online?) and just one picture of you dressed up for work. Never check it.

>> No.73256669

HR is one of those things that when done well is great and when done poorly is useless. They're for keeping bosses from power tripping against the company's interests, working out how many of what jobs you need, keeping track of holidays and payroll and stuff, and basically making sure the people who do whatever the company does don't need to waste time with that shit.

When they suck they don't do any of that, and then have to either justify their existence by making things run less smoothly or just waste time.

They're not a union. They're there to protect the company from its workers, not protect the workers from the company. The thing about protecting the company is that good HR will realise that the power tripping boss is the problem and the workers trying to sue are the symptom.

>> No.73256801

I made a better version

>> No.73256893

When I typed that I was assuming that any offense to Shinto would pretty much come from Asian countries due to it being the state religion of Japan during WWII.

Which the original Kamigawa handled fine to my knowledge, not to mention Japan has its own wizards.

>> No.73257271

Everyone outside of whites are racist. Japanese and chinese hate each other, Japanese hate Koreans, Koreans hate Japanese, China is wiping out non-Han. Nobody likes black people including other blacks.

The problem with whites is that they outpaced everyone else in terms of technology and took over everywhere else then tried to uplift everyone and most people had to be dragged kicking and screaming and always resented whites for it.

>> No.73257629

Kenrith looks like strict orthodox jesus imo

>> No.73257683


>> No.73257808

I can't wait for the inevitable norse plane so I can unleash the full power of autistic bitching about muh heritage

>> No.73257851

By killing SJWs, commies and trannies.
If you remove them you remove the source of the problem.

>> No.73257893

How about you kill yourself you brainwashed wokecult-ghoul?

No wonder getting called an NPC triggers you so hard. You people exist to nod to mainstream consensus.

>> No.73257994

are you just pretending to be illiterate?

>> No.73258339

nice yugioh card

>> No.73259176

Brb gonna go tame a Zebra because Diamond is full of shit

>> No.73260208

Jesus Christ people, Kamigawa is NOT Japan. It would be okay for it to be simpler, but honestly it's better with how it was done and actually was very well received. People are making a big shit over nothing.

>> No.73260431

When us real leftists destroy the wokescolds, all will be good again

>> No.73260520

>Japan has its own wizards.
Thry're called Hikikomori

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