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[ERROR] No.72310411 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

The coronavirus and all that is causing people to think about how the world might be radically different in a few years.

What effect does this have on plausibility of cyberpunk setting conceits? I feel like balkanization of major countries will either be validated by it actually happening or refuted by it failing to happen, for one.

>> No.72310680

>>72310411
the US isn't going to balkanize because the coastal faggots can't survive without based Great Plains chads.

>> No.72310732

>>72310680
The US is going to balkanize precisely because the coastal faggots can't survive without the based Great Plains chads.
The coastals need the flyover country far more than the flyover states need coastals. International shipping can be done via the secret southern coast. NY and Cali are just dead weight.

>> No.72310740

>>72310680
>this is what cornfags really believe
In order to end dependency on Plains agriculture, Coastal states would have to reduce consumption of beef. That's literally it. Beef and feed corn are the only things produced in the plains that the other states can't produce in large enough amounts to feed themselves.

>> No.72310768

>>72310732
If the Plains and South are separated from the East and West, there will be nobody to pay their welfare. And it's not like these states are rich now, even without the massively greater amount of money that they receive in federal subsidies than they pay in taxes.

>> No.72310826

>>72310768

I've no idea what you're trying to say.

>>72310411

No real bearing, might make certain world concepts more prevalent in future games but that's about it really. The fact is that this crisis has done less to cyberpunk the real world than the march of time has. We're already living in societies not to far removed from some of the early distopic novels and we're getting closer all the time.

>> No.72310853

>>72310768
They just need to sell some nuclear warheads and initiate a robust public infrastructure program to shore up the economy.

>> No.72310915

>>72310853
>selling your weapons immediately after you and all your neighbors balkanized
This is what the kids call a big brain strategy.

>> No.72310944

>>72310826
Plains and South will be way more screwed than the coasts, because Balkanization implies the loss of a federal government and thus the federal subsidies that those states rely on to function. On the other hand, the coastal states which pay more in federal tax than they get back will be much better off.

>> No.72311004

>>72310680
California and Oregon have agriculture and Cali's economy is strong enough to import food from other countries if necessary. I don't know how the north east would fare though, there's less serious agriculture there and more people.

>> No.72311030

>>72310915
You do realize that selling *some* warheads implies that you're keeping *most* right? The US stockpile of warheads is large enough that selling a handful wouldn't be impactful on the breakaway state's capacity to ensure nuclear deterrence.

>> No.72311044

>>72311030
It also means that your potential enemies now have some.

>> No.72311055

>>72311004
I think they'd have to import food from South America.

>> No.72311071

>>72311004
I don't think that it's guaranteed that California would remain cohesive (let alone team up with Oregon), if Balkanization were to occur. There's a notable divide between north and south California, and the major urban centers are likely to find themselves the target of riots and outright paramilitary action diminishing the ability of the entrenched elites to exert control.

>> No.72311110

>>72311055
I mean we already do that anyway, a lot of the produce in the stores during winter time is from Chile and Argentina. As of 2020 if California was an independant nation it would have the world's 5th highest GDP. Losing the midwest and east coast isn't going to suddenly cripple them.

>> No.72311142

>>72311044
This is technically true, but there are a lot of countries in the world who are very unlikely to act belligerently in the American theater. The sale of the warheads could even be part of a mutual defense pact.
South Korea, for example, would be very interested in acquiring nuclear weapons if the US were to collapse in order to maintain a nuclear deterrent against China and North Korea.

>> No.72311188

>>72311071
The map in the OP is the agreements between states and various other that have arisen do to the lack of federal leadership on the COVID issue. If we assume that the federal government disbands or otherwise becomes irrelevant but the state governments don't, it's a pretty reasonable proxy for how things would work out. Also I think California would probably pull together; nobody who's not from there likes Southern California, but also nobody likes the various yankees, dixies, and other foreigners that make up the far reaches of the US.

>> No.72311353

>>72311188
>The map in the OP is the agreements between states and various other that have arisen do to the lack of federal leadership on the COVID issue.
Exactly.
This isn't representative of balkanization, which is a deeply disruptive and violent process. The federal government isn't going to simply disband or quietly become irrelevant. Actual balkanization of the US would be a piecemeal process which unfolds over the course of several years of civil war.
Absent the threat of a federal response, the militias in the American northwest aren't going to submit themselves to the sovereignty of political elites from LA, SF, or Sacramento. The midwest has a leg up in this aspect because in that part of the US, the violent militia types are in bed with the sheriffs.

>> No.72311570

>>72310411
>question mark on Idaho
God dammit guys, do you seriously have no idea what'd we be a part of?

>> No.72311625

>>72311570
Idaho is currently one of the five states that isn't part of anything. The question mark indicates a potential invitation that has yet to be issued, as described by the text in the sea to the left.

>> No.72311701

>WA
>join hands with commiefornia
Burn down Seattle and any such sentiment would disappear from the state overnight. Rainier eruption when?

>> No.72311745

>>72310411
>What effect does this have on plausibility of cyberpunk setting conceits?
WAY more facemasks and gas-masks. I know we're already heavily invested into these, but it's time to double-down. OUR TIME HAS COME.

>> No.72311816

>>72311745
It's kind of cool how they've immediately become a fashion accessory.

>> No.72311871

>>72310411
MO has been begging to join the midwest since the term was coined, no fucking way they turn down membership.

Not that we'd offer those southern fuckers anything but the business end of a 30.06.

>> No.72311911

>>72311871
They did though.

>> No.72311942

>>72311110
See california is a huge economy because it imports into the USA
If it becomes independent there won't be any imports going though it

>> No.72312107

>>72310732
>The coastals need the flyover country far more than the flyover states need coastals

I get that Californians and New Yorkers are a hateful breed, but this is just some serious delusion. Agricultural economy in the US is subsidized as fuck, and guess who the fuck pays the Lion share of those taxes? Not South Dakota, that's for sure.

By the way your entire Constitution is predicated on the coastal industrial centers making a bitch out of agricultural landowners, so you really are fucking delusional if you think a flu pandemic is finally going to put the Plains in charge.

>> No.72312219

>>72311942
>See california is a huge economy because it imports into the USA
And because it has hollywood, silicon valley, financial centers, manufacturing, agriculture and tourism

>> No.72312336

It's not an anticipation game if Quebec isn't free.

>> No.72312538

>>72312336

Not much of a point, given that Canada is on top of its pandemic, and that's supposed to be the incentive for balkanization here.

Technically Quebec is the worst off province, so maybe you could go with the "and the other provinces finally told them to fuck off" meme, but even then they had a really quick response...

>> No.72315393

>>72311942
See california is a huge economy because of something that doesn't even rank in the top ten most valuable market sectors for the state
If it becomes independent people in the rest of the continent will stop wanting or needing goods from Asia

>> No.72315422

>>72310411
>The coronavirus and all that is causing people to think about how the world might be radically different in a few years
Every. Single. Time.

It ain't gonna happen.

>> No.72315454

>>72311871
>southern fuckers
In what universe is KCMO even remotely the south? It isn't Great Lakes like Chicago or Detroit, but it's still one of the most midwestern cities I can possibly think of

>> No.72315503

>>72311142
Yeah, now that's a revolutionary idea. If everyone has nukes, surely they will think twice before going to war!

>These are the instruments that have revolutionized the methods of warfare, and because of their devastating effects, have made nations and rulers give greater thought to the outcome of war before entering
>They are peace-producing and peace-retaining terrors
NY Times on the Maxim machine-gun

It also massively increases the chances of nuclear exchanges and accidents. Read up about proliferation and the strategic-tactical weapon debate.

>> No.72315514

>>72315422
People ain't gonna think about things?

>> No.72316325

>>72310411
Even in the future cyberpunk dystopia, no one wants Idaho.

>> No.72316671

>>72310826

>I've no idea what you're trying to say.

Yeah, I think that pretty much encapsulates why the midwestern states would be fucked

>>72310853

a program like that is going to cost way more than whatever pittance you can get from selling off nukes, which, by the way, will make you an international pariah so say goodbye to any preferential trade agreements.

>> No.72316720

>>72315454
Literally the Missouri Compromise.

>> No.72316742

>>72312538
>and the other provinces finally told them to fuck off
I mean, the Francophones are already up in arms about the fact that some of the imported disinfectants and related goods are only labeled in English. This is actually something that they have the Gaul to complain about.

>> No.72316847

>>72310411
I doubt the US will balkanize, but if governors keep trying to push these retarded shutdown orders, we might see major businesses going over their heads to the federal government for authorization to operate independent of state authority, laying the groundwork for the semi-sovereign megacorps typical of cyberpunk settings.

>> No.72317054

>>72315514
Think about it if you like, it's not coming true any more than Star Trek

This anon >>72310826 has it right. Momentary crises like these have less impact than the gradual buildup of other factors which compounded over years if not decades. It's like an avalanche - what is the real driving power, the huge weight of snow accumulating slowly on the mountain, or the sudden jolt that shook it loose?

>> No.72317068

>>72317054
Good analogy, my money's on the wheeling seasons and whatever the fuck El Nino's up to as the straws that eventually break the camel's back.

>> No.72317243

>>72310411
If Mexico remains somewhat stable, wouldn’t they send "peacekeeping" forces into neighbouring states, de facto annexing them? Canada could occupy Alaska and perhaps few other places too.

>> No.72317342

>>72317243
Canada can't even occupy itself, let alone Alaska

A new Texican War would be great though, it'll really help reunite the nation and stop this silly do-gooder enabling of illegals

>TLAs reading this, take note

>> No.72317352

>>72310411
Very outdated but oh well

>> No.72317506

>>72310411
One things these maps all fail to account for is the giant crater where Cook County, IL used to be courtesy of us Hoosiers

>> No.72317545

>>72317054
>what is the real driving power, the huge weight of snow accumulating slowly on the mountain,
Massive wealth inequality, widespread poverty and disenfranchisement, and maybe a bit of climate change
>or the sudden jolt that shook it loose?
Coronavirus

>> No.72317582

>>72317352
Not a burger, but that looks pretty interesting

So many questions though
>I don't see what Empire of Rust brings to the party, Empire of Rust should be Commonwealth and Commonwealth should be Euro-dominated, call it UNPROFOR-USA
>why does Disney get XM8? why does Trump get the Steyr Aug?
>wouldn't The Bear, Texas and the Confederacy have very common goals?
>why does Alaska get tomahawks and not Norinco QBZ-95?

>> No.72317658

>>72310740
>Coastal states would have to reduce consumption of beef. That's literally it.
B-but muh In-N-Out Burger...

>> No.72317683

>>72310768
>>72316671
>Red-State America becomes White Power North Korea.

>> No.72318039

>it's another anon divides america as skillfully as africa was episode

>> No.72319986

>>72310915
North Dakota alone has somewhere in the neighborhood of 1200 nuclear warheads.

>> No.72320010

>>72316742
>This is actually something that they have the Gaul to complain about.
Carlos!

>> No.72320513

>>72311745
>>72311816
It took us a decade or two longer than the chinks, but we finally got there.

Now to get armoured jackets and EDC in the common fashion.

>> No.72321580

>>72310680
Ohio will eventually conquer everything & rule from the Moon

>> No.72321749

>>72316742
>I mean, the Francophones are already up in arms

Literally no one cares but medias and one of the shittiest Union there is in the Province (FTQ).

>> No.72321927

>>72315503
>My dynamite will sooner lead to peace than a thousand world conventions. As soon as men will find that in one instant, whole armies can be utterly destroyed, they surely will abide by golden peace

>> No.72321932

>>72310680

t. has never left his home state

>> No.72321963

>>72310411
It's accelerated the growth of technology aided surveillance and authoritarianism. If the country's trajectory isn't altered soon it will end up as a more classic dystopian setting with cyberpunk trappings like high tech/low life. It just wouldn't be corporations in charge, more like a highly socialized central planning government which has mostly coopted corporations and utilizes technology to more easily control it's serfs.

>> No.72322086

>>72318039
This is how the states chose to divide themselves.

>> No.72322125

>>72321963
There hasn't been a lot of signs of the government ceasing to be the bitch of large corporations, and it's not like corporations aren't also spying on people.

>highly socialized central planning government
Because the federal government has done so much planning during this virus. So much planning that the states felt it necessary to build their own separate organizations as depicted in the OP.

>> No.72322153

>>72321963
>It just wouldn't be corporations in charge, more like a highly socialized central planning government which has mostly coopted corporations and utilizes technology to more easily control it's serfs.
In what universe are you living in that US megacorps are losing power?

>> No.72322278

>>72316742
I especially love that not a day after Health Canada apologized for relaxing its labelling requirements for inported disinfectant, it was revealed that the Assemblée nationale had done the same thing in February, and just never announced it

>> No.72322452

>>72311625
Realistically thinking, the Treasure Valley would become a totalitarian state when Boise and the other big cities try to push in on the farms and rural areas. Outside of the Treasure Valley becomes a hotbed of resistance cells and militias trying to break off from the big cities' rule (and Montana trying to edge in on their turf).

>> No.72322637

>>72310411
I don't think the balkanization of the United States is particularly realistic. I could see the West Coast and maybe Texas being peeled off, but most of the country would still coalesce behind something that looks a whole lot like the United States. Fucking geography and shit.

>> No.72322647

>>72322452
>Montanans
>wanting to go to Idaho

>> No.72322669

>>72322278

Truth is, no one cares but Radio-Canada.

>> No.72322792

>>72322669
The Bloc stomps its feet, some Francos are full of faux outrage, most of us are, at most, slightly annoyed

>> No.72322856

>>72310680
>Implying they wouldn't just cuck to Chinese imports like they've been doing for literally decades already

Inland Cali have water issues, but that's the Great Lakes' problem

>> No.72322979

>>72322792

> the Bloc

Makes sense, anything to grab a bit of media attention, the Bloc's been dying for a long while now... Jesus fucking Christ no one but the worst boomers still care about anything the Bloc does or say (and I say this as someone who used to vote for them). Admittedly there's a shitload of low-education boomer in the Province, but still...

I usually am sympathetic to our language laws, given that I'm a lawyer and if you know how the Civil Code treats legal publicity, then most of the language laws we have are basically just a given, but this is just fucking silly.

>> No.72323302

>>72321963
What's the difference? The corporations will happily keep the government around so long as it gives them regular bailouts of taxpayer money, never passes laws that inconvenient them and maintains the puppet show of party politics to keep people mobilizing against each other instead of the corporations.

>> No.72323455

>>72321963

Holy shit are you dumb and blind.
This will only result in more corporate centralization. The Fed wont fade away because it is an important and useful tool to corporate interests. Bezos will own half of the USA's economic activity, and the government will conitnue to function/become even more of a market place of essential services contracts which corporations fight over.

>> No.72324110

>>72322637
US is too homogenized whether or not people want to admit it.

>> No.72324346

>>72312107
BASED AND 1776 PILLED

>> No.72326591

>>72317352
>People's Republic of California
>led by the leaders of silicon valley, Hollywood, and media
>socialist goals

>> No.72326773

>>72322856
The one part of Victoria I liked was how, when the government collapsed, the Rust Belt immediately spiraled down into a brutal "Christian" military dictatorship that sold its soul and resource rights to China and Russia for a penny and a handjob. It sure was weird that they were the protagonists, though.

And the entire Illinois-Michigan-Wisconsin area became the Fourth Reich. That was pretty rad too.

>> No.72327214

>>72326773
If the rust belt were to give away its soul post hypothetical American collapse, wouldn't Canada (or its successor states, if it also collapsed) be the more logical choice of patron, by dint of convenience and proximity to Canada's main manufacturing sectors?

>> No.72327334

>>72327214
Selling your soul to Canada doesn't have that deal with the devil street cred. It just sounds lame.

>> No.72327531

>>72327214
That would just be selling to China-by-proxy. Also Canada is not real country

>> No.72327575

>>72327531
Elaborate, it seems to me that with freshwater reserves, the hydroelectric power of melting glaciers and the newly opened NW passage Canada's primed to be a superpower in the warming world if they snap out of their effeminate bullshit.

>> No.72327591

>>72326591

>> No.72327632

>>72327591
please don't bully me

>> No.72327699

>>72327575
...he says, the same day the Prime Minister bypasses the legislature to disarm the populace.

>> No.72327751

>>72327699
General access to firearms is irrelevant to the preservation of liberty from internal enemies.

>> No.72327806

>>72327699
Who gives a fuck about the populace? Heavily militarise to keep the balkanised US from coming after freshwater and buff the navy to patrol that passage. You can bet that with the chaos down south they'd start throwing their weight around as the newly premier power in NA.

>> No.72327858

>>72310411
I don't understand what the point of all these divisions is when you can connect all the lower 48 together.
>CA aligned with CO
>CO aligned with NM & KS
>KS aligned with MO
>MO aligned with IL & AR
>AR aligned with DE
>DE aligned with MA
>MA aligned with ME

>> No.72327951

>>72327858
Because these agreements were made piecemeal. A unified federal plan would be better, but there isn't one so this is bodged together.

>> No.72327970

>>72327699

You realize anyone and everyone within 50 miles of an Indian reserves has access to military grade hardware, right? If Canucks wants to arm themselves they can real fucking easily. Our government hands out Garand rifles for free to Natives... who gives a shit about AR-15s anyways? Shit rifle.

>> No.72327985

>>72327951
Exactly. The weakness of the Federal government has revealed the social structure underneath it.

>> No.72328276

>>72327531
The US has a marginally greater proportion of Chinese citizens than Canada does,, but alright.
>>72327575
Presumably, a cyberpunk Canada would include mass-industrialization of the North, and you could ratchet up the tensions between a Nunavut government struggling to keep some semblance of relevance as their people migrate to the manufacturing, transport and resource extraction projects of NWT.

>> No.72328381

Manitoba will rise

>> No.72328433

>>72312107
Yes, it's delusion to think that the backwater dullards living meal to meal in the plains will ever be able to upset the well established, economically robust middle kingdom.

>> No.72328528

>>72317582
based on how the two regions are, the dixie and the bear are very different in how they see things.

>> No.72328551

>>72328381

Yes.
Murder the Orangist.
Burn the Brit.
Fuck the Ontarian.

>> No.72328578

>>72328551
>>72328381
dam the panama canal

>> No.72328730

>>72328433

The argument that the Coast are dependent on the central State's agricultural production is defeated by the point that these economies would not be viable absent from the subsidies largely extracted from the more populated coasts.

But dont let an analysis based on current facts deter you from making generic-to-the-point-of-meaninglesness comparisons with the ancient history of a country that has no similarity whatsoever with the one at hand.

>> No.72328850

>>72321963
>the government owns the corporations
I would be more afraid of the converse, if not simply because it's already coming to pass. Restoration of the government against globalist trust interests when?

>> No.72328874

>>72328850

Same moment Nazbol gang finally assemble
probably never sadly

>> No.72329021

>>72328874
>Actual Nazi Commies
>Probably gonna have the rich and powerful ride the wave after the group grows to critical mass (wouldn't be surprised given what some of those fucks get up to)
>Fight to restore the Constitution
This is gonna be one hell of a show. God damn if I live to see this happening I'mma die happy.

>> No.72329249

>>72327699
If Parliament has granted Cabinet the power to do something by order-in-council, then Cabinet doing something by order-in-council is in keeping with the will of Parliament.

>> No.72329259

>>72328730
So what would logically happen to the central states in a balkinization scenario?

>> No.72329368

>>72329259

Sort of an inverted Rush for the West, where whichever coastal centers who balkanized first/best get to rush onwards to try and establish dominance over the central States.

I mean, if we are going to go for a balkanization scenario, we'd better assume complete disintegration of normalcy in the US. Otherwise it doesnt make any sense, there are too many barriers to the rise of a successful secessionist movement there.

>> No.72329598

>>72329368
I don't know. I literally read a story about gunmen storming a local parliament today. I think normalcy in the USA is definitely under threat and has been since at least 2016.

>> No.72329890

>>72321963
Coronavirus accelerated the growth of technology aided surveillance and authoritarianism...???

>>72322153
It's true, S&P is seeing faster and faster turnover - this means megacorps are being overthrown more these days. You gotta understand, the likes of Amazon, Alphabet, Facebook etc are fucking toddlers compared to corps like Coke. We bleat about muh corp dominance but actually the opposite is happening.

>>72327575
"IF"

>> No.72330047

>>72329598

Where? Cant find anything with "gunmen Parliament USA"... and what are local Parliaments in the US? Isnt that your Congress?

>> No.72330210

>>72329890
learn to use the greentext reddit man

>> No.72330290

>>72327575

Canada's hyper effeminate woke PC visuals are just a front tho. It's true that Canadian Libs are probably the Libbest folks out there, but when it comes to fucking over Natives, fucking over rurals, or fucking over non-white non-Anglos, they have no fucking qualms whatsoever. It's all super controlled in the media, and the general niceness of politicians and public figures makes it very easy to compartmentalize.

You probably dont remember this but the US granted political asylum to a BC Native leader in 2003 after a ranch occupation, the dude made his case to a judge that he was likely going to be disappeared if he ever got extradited.

Shoot a school or a crowd and the gun you used to do it will be banned. Shoot a native kid trying to steal your car with a hunting rifle and literally nothing happens.

>> No.72330356

>>72321580
Based Ohioanon, 937 represent

>> No.72330440

>>72330210
make me, incel

>> No.72330470

One depressing thing among many about this cyberpunk present is that there aren't any cool robots around anywhere. At least, I haven't seen any.

>> No.72330693

>>72330047
i think he means those retards in michigan going into the state legislature armed.
this whole thread is hilariously delusional anyway, no one is considering the unspoken point that a us balkanised by states means a lot of shitholes with less people than portugal.
what exactly is going to stop the bigger states ganking them?
Or foreign powers for that matter, and don't say "muh nooks" because you know fuckin well that argument won't work for everyone.

>> No.72330880

>>72330693

Holy fuck, just read the story. Fucking Michigan, man.

>> No.72330884

>>72330693
>no one is considering the unspoken point that a us balkanised by states means a lot of shitholes with less people than portugal.
That the point. Lots of low-pop shitholes = more chances to play White Pride Taliban.

>> No.72331225

>>72330880
A bunch of idiots who will soon realize all their guns, ammo, and tacticool gear won't be respected by the virus. Gene pool's closed due to Covid.

>> No.72331316

>>72327575
Canada is not a country, it is 3 mining companies in a trench coat masquerading as a country.
>>72329890
>Coronavirus accelerated the growth of technology aided surveillance and authoritarianism...???
Disease surveillance. Microsoft and a couple other companies got the contract for it.

>> No.72331384

>>72331316
ALL PART OF THE PLAN!

I really hope this isn't sincere.

>> No.72331868

>>72331384

>> No.72331929

>>72311004
California exports produce. We have zero need for flyover states, we produce more than enough ourselves. Our state alone is one of the largest economies in the world, and we pay far more to the federal government than we receive. If we were to be our own country we would be absolutely fine.

>> No.72331964

>>72331868
well, estrogen does seem to make difference in effects of the virus...

>> No.72332196

>>72331929
Then do what must be done and end this charade!

>> No.72332259

>>72331316
The fuck is the US but oil, guns, tech and Wall street in a bigger coat?
>>72331384
>vaccinations
>to cure a virus
Diabolical, what will they think of next!

>> No.72332283

>>72332196
Aren't there water problems? Maybe try it when you've enough solar panels to fuel reverse osmosis desalinators, crack out those antique maps and claim that you're legally an island.

>> No.72332321

>>72332259
>Diabolical, what will they think of next

Well, the microchip thing is kinda, at least on a surface level, pretty dark.

>> No.72332434

>>72332321
On that topic I'll share this, but only because the last one isn't causing a /pol/storm.

>> No.72332480

>>72332434

I usually fucking hate Garrison on a visceral level, that kind of art really just bugs the fuck out of me, but this one I like.

And the 5G meme is just... oh wow, it's so fucking good. I had my neighbour stop me the other day to tell me about it. 10 minutes later he was talking to me about Transdimensional reptilians taking over.

>> No.72332513

>>72332434
See the mostly consensual erosion of privacy is legitimately terrifying but demonising vaccinations during a pandemic is like not hosing down a burning house because of fluoride in the water. It's these dumb fucks diluting herd immunity that get plagues rolling in the first place.

>> No.72332515

>>72332480
I found them because someone made a new Urban Unease thread. I was looking up pandemic images, conspiracies, memes for inspiration, but reality proved too damn weird.

>> No.72332536

>>72332515

Pretty much.
It's the coincidence of continued normalcy with absolute madness, each side to side and compartmentalized by media and distance.

>> No.72332570

>>72331316
>Disease surveillance
What did they do?
Not a burger

>>72332259
>The fuck is
Any country really
>but oil, guns, tech and Wall street in a bigger coat?

>> No.72332579

>>72332513

Good point. In any case we are what, 2 years away from a vaccine. Talk about tracking who got it and who didnt are ... well, premature beyond being stupid.

>> No.72332634

>>72332570
>Any country really

There is that, but it shouldnt also obscure the fact that Canada was explicitly set up as a riches centralization scheme on the model of the City of London, except our government does it to it's own population instead of old colonies. Wealth inequality in Canada was absolutely insane in the early parts of the last century.

People shit on perequation without realizing it's mostly Ontarians libs who pays it off, and by God we should bleed them dry for what they did to our rural centers.

>> No.72332648

>>72332536
We're all feeling a little crazy right now. Stupid as I think it is re-starting economies before there's any kind of plan in place to keep shit from bursting into flames again, I have to wonder what people will even be like if this keeps going.

Why contain it? Let it spill over into the schools and churches. Let the bodies pile up in the streets. In the end, they'll beg us to save them.

>> No.72332714

>>72332648

>> No.72332894

>>72332648
>pic
kek

Corona aside, economy is going to be hit really hard though under any kind of lockdown condition

>>72332634
>perequation
What's the argument against? Non-canuck but I'd like to visit someday

>> No.72333006

>>72332480
There's a very specific mindset which makes people prone to believing conspiracy nonsense, new-age woo, and other such things, and I can't quite articulate what it is.

It's not necessarily directly related to intelligence; don't forget Steve Jobs was at least reasonably clever & very highly educated, and he tried to treat cancer with seaweed smoothies and meditation or whatever. I think maybe 'scientifically incurious', maybe?

It makes people mistrust any official sources of information, while almost unthinkingly swallow anything spouted off by any source which claims to be 'outside the mainstream'.

Whatever the specifics, it's the modern equivalent of being a cave-man with a gimpy leg, or a medieval peasant with a dodgy immune system, or a nineteenth-century industrial worker with poor situational awareness: You're going to starve to death / die of plague / get caught up in some whirling piece of machinery & torn to shreds / end up putting your faith in complete nonsense which, at best, will severely reduce your ability to compete in the modern world, or at worst will kill you when you try to fight a fully treatable illness with holistic vegan tantric crystals instead of actual, not pretend, medicine. Not to mention the very real possibility of getting held up by your ankles and shaken untill your gold fillings fall out by every con-man going.

It's the latest Darwinian pressure to be applied to the human race.

>> No.72333092

>>72332894
>Corona aside, economy is going to be hit really hard though under any kind of lockdown condition
True. It's kind of a Catch 22, though, since trying to open up without proper testing, protective equipment, and so on will just cause the same problem that forced the shutdown in the first place. You'll reach a point where people aren't sheltering in place because of official instructions but because they're scared of dying. Then the economy will be in the same shitty state and, yeah, there'll be bodies piling up in the streets.

Can't play games with the virus. Can't beg, can't reason with it. This thing's a real piece of work. That fucking stealth mechanic where people are infections for weeks before showing symptoms and according to some reports can be infections for weeks after otherwise recovering.

But when all is said and done there's far worse worldwide disasters. Imagine life under the threat of an extinction level asteroid or Yellowstone threatening to erupt.

>> No.72333185

>>72333092
But the fact is, people are going to literally starve if the economy is dead. Few people have proper savings these days. (I blame consoomerism.)

>> No.72333200

>>72332894
>What's the argument against? Non-canuck but I'd like to visit someday

It's a constant meme in our politics, usually leveled by Prairie folks against Quebecers, but it only serves to show how little they understand about it. Generally goes like

> Quebecer mentions something is fucky about Canadian politics.
> "How DARE you complain about anything when you are sucking our taxes DRY?!? Alberta oil pays for your social net, so shut the fuck up!"

When in reality perequation mostly helps the Maritimes, Nunavut and the NW Territories not be the absolute 3rd world countries they would other be. The calculations for it are pretty complex, but for the most part, the mo ey for it comes from the wealthiest urban centers, with Toronto paying the lion's share of it.

People tend not to know the history up here, so Quebec appears as a shithole filled with lazy bums, because they have a large population that's well established, so why are they so behind on economic matter? But go 70 years back and Quebec is in a completely different place than most of North America, economically. There was a point in the late 19th century where around 98% of the private wealth in the province was owned by people who lived in Westmount. It takes a while to come back from this kind of wealth inequality.

Similar shit happened with Manitoba, Saskatchewan and to a lesser degree, Alberta, but with the caveat that apart from the Metis, there wasnt any (white) local population for Ottawa to fuck over, so they had to do it slower as the Germans and Irish started coming over.

>> No.72333271

>>72332634
That's just colonies for you. Societies built from the ground up to pump resources and wealth back to the metropole are going to have some amount of fuckery baked into the system.

>> No.72333276

>>72332480
>10 minutes later he was talking to me about Transdimensional reptilians taking over.
He's not wrong about that, ya know.

>> No.72333384

>>72333276
Talking about them in public is a bit risky though. It's likely the neighbor was part of a sting.

>> No.72333404

>>72333271

Yes, but as a rural Canuck, it's really disheartening hearing everyone spout the "Canada is nice" meme as if it was a fact. I mean, you can call us irrelevant, fine, I'd be retarded to say otherwise, but our government really does goes out of it's way to fuck over anyone who doesnt live in Victoria, Ottawa or Toronto. It also sucks a lot how much our own rural population is willing to be coopted by its government's media machine to turn them against each other. People from the Prairies, Quebec and the Maritimes have really no good fucking reason not to help one another against Ottawa.

>> No.72333407

>>72333200
> People tend not to know the history up here, so Quebec appears as a shithole filled with lazy bums
>Implying Quebec isn't a shithole governed by losers.

Their government is literally so snowflakey and paranoid that they consider post secondary schools teaching english and english signs for stores to be a threat to their very way of life.

>> No.72333424

>>72333185
Hence the Catch 22, though this kind of shit can be managed. Limited opening, testing and plenty of it (especially before you open so you know where it is safest to open), contact tracing, providing proper medical equipment. Nothing's perfect, but there's ways to do things smart. If you don't, if you try to force it, you'll have the economic catastrophe, people still starving, and a lot more people dying of the virus. A sick labor force cannot grow food or perform essential services. We're seeing that in the meat plants in the US. The government can't just decree these businesses stay open when the workers are getting sick and dying. It just won't work.

But bright side, go the risky route and if you're one of the lucky survivors you'll find a world with far fewer people to compete with. A lot less old voters locking down politics and even younger workers who have died leaving plenty of job vacancies. The dead will envy the living.

>> No.72333446

>>72333404
This is the exact reason that I am seriously considering moving to the US from PEI

Im tired of the Federal Government fucking us consistently because they only ever care about the whims of suburbanite losers that couldn't give two shits about anyone that lives outside their particular metropolis

>> No.72333468

>>72333276
>>72333384

Thing is, about 15 years ago I had a roommate who was clearly schizo, an oil field burnout with way too much money and no sense at all. He would talk to me for hours on end about reptiles and indigo children, all the while smoking blunts one after the other. I like Lovecraft a lot, so when he heard that he started mixing the Mythos into his lunacy and that made for real good entertainment.

Sadly the dude committed suicide. Came back from work one day with the door busted and a notice from the cops. I probably missed some warnings too. Hopefully I didnt encourage him, but oh well, we were living with his sister (who was apparently a reptilian, according to her bloodtype), shits more on her than me.

Still, I get a kick out of talks of reptilians ever since.

>> No.72333484

>>72333384
Not necessarily.
The reptilians running the country count on the fact that most people have been conditioned not see see this image.

>> No.72333508

>>72333484
>this image
>forgets to upload an image

>> No.72333520

>>72333200
>Westmount
>google image
holy shit dem estates

Okay, canucks ITT, so what's on the checklist if I swing by? Toronto sounds like NYC-lite, Quebec was mentioned for history, I ain't going West so no Hongcouver.... what else?

Can't wait to drink maple syrup, scarf bearclaws and poutine - what else is good indig food?

>> No.72333579

>>72333407

And that's the shit I'm talking about. Stop assuming guilt and inform yourself.

1) Language laws in Quebec are a direct consequence of how their Civil Code defines legal publicity. Under that code a business sign is a legal contract, which means it must be predominantly in French, because historically getting the government go recognize that a population should be able to read its contracts was a big issue at some point.
2) Stories about language laws horrors are all examples of government bureaucrats doing zealous interpretation of their duties. On average, case agents will give years to business owners in infraction to correct their mistake. Last I check (admittedly years ago), the average infraction involved at least a dozen warnings with months in between each.
3) English is thought at the elementary level in Quebec depending on the school. My niece went to the Ursulines in Quebec City and she took English from the first grade.

This is the shit I'm talking about. Medias do this all the time because nothing sells better in Canada than "those damn frenchies are at it again". In the meantime Trudeau is fucking us behind our back, and believe me, his last name could be fucking Chinese for what it really mattered.

>> No.72333598

>>72333520

Montreal is pretty insane, as far as a hotspot. Especially if you dont mind thots.

>> No.72333624

>>72333508
tbf, the image probably got reported immediately

>> No.72333659

>>72333446
>I am seriously considering moving to the US
>I'm tired of the Federal Government fucking us consistently
bruh

>> No.72333669

>>72333579
Oh I harbour absolutely no reservations as to what Trudeau is doing. I own tens of thousands of dollars in rare world war two era firearms I would sooner esport to the US for nickles and dimes than let that turbo-fag do

Your missing the point with the language laws. that shit is literally not constitutional. They use the notwithstanding clause, the part of our bill of rights that shouldn't exist, to make it happen.

>> No.72333680

>>72333659
No matter how bad it is in the US, its much, much worse in Canada. You have absolutely no idea.

>> No.72333755

>>72310411
US balkanization is a stupid idea because the US isn't full of a bunch of slavs who murder one another other different accents and religions. Fuck off with your retard maps when you have no understanding of why shit like balkanization happens.

>> No.72333805

>>72333598
Wow Montreal just made it to #1 on the list, how did that happen, I have no idea...

>> No.72333816

>>72331929
>we pay far more to the federal government than we receive
We actually pay only a little more as a portion of the total amount of money moving back and forth. It seems like a lot because there's a lot of money in California, but the state actually gets a ton of federal money by the standards of blue states

>> No.72333828

>>72333755
It happened to Alexander's Empire, Rome, China, the Ottomans, and almost every other empire in history. The exceptions being those that were destroyed by foreign conquerors.
The US fracturing is an inevitability.

>> No.72333833

>>72332434
>swastika made of unbranded condiment tubes
What?

>> No.72333859

>>72333833
Those are clearly McStabby® brand baby bottles, you ignorant dink.

>> No.72333884

>>72333669

The notwithstanding clause was used by the Liberal government, and it was because a Quebec Court of Appeal had overturned the previous version of the text. This was just a political move made to secure a stand on the issue.

And more importantly, this was relevant nearly 30 years ago. Wanna know who busted a vein over the fact the Parliement doesnt require language laws to apply since February for health supplies? Radio-Canada. No one else. Every French-Canadian I've mentionned it too rolled their eyes and said something to the effect of "if you need to read instructions to use lysol, just fucking die already".

>> No.72333903

>>72332894
Not shutting down will just exacerbate the long-term economic effects by making the coronavirus itself worse, though. 2% of the population dying and a large portion of the rest being handicapped to varying degrees isn't going to allow businesses to function normally either, and will last for at least a generation, not just until there's a vaccine.

>> No.72333931

>>72333185
>people are going to literally starve if the economy is dead
Well, if the mostly capitalist system is maintained. There's enough wealth around to keep things going using socialist methods, and you'll notice every government has been doing so.

>Few people have proper savings
This applies to companies as well; lots of corporations have been getting government handouts too.

>> No.72333955

>>72333884
>"if you need to read instructions to use lysol, just fucking die already".

But if you can't read how to safety administer lysol to your lungs the virus will kill you! What now, smart guy?

>> No.72333956

>>72333669

I haven't checked the latest version of what he's proposing to do with the gun ban, but as of yesterday your WWII paraphernalia should be safe. M1 are still good.

>> No.72333982

>>72333755
>the US isn't full of a bunch of slavs who murder one another other different accents and religions.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA yes they are.

>> No.72334030

>>72333903
>2% of the population dying and a large portion of the rest being handicapped
>will last for at least a generation, not just until there's a vaccine
You and I remember coronavirus very differently

>>72333931
>using socialist methods
...let's not go there

>> No.72334066

>>72334030
>remember
It's not over. Perhaps it's not even really beginning, what with all these reopenings.

And vaccines only prevent you from getting the disease, they don't cure you of the effects of having had it, much less of having been on a ventilator for more than a week.

>> No.72334106

>>72333955

I call the local Health-Info line?
The socialist safety net strikes again!

>>72334030
>...let's not go there

Please let's go there. Socialists have the best waifus.

>> No.72334147

>>72334106
Pft, how can I read the hotline number on the can if it's not in my language!? Idiot.

>> No.72334193

>>72327214
Canada isn't as much of an imperialistic beast of a country. You don't think both China and Russia would give an arm and a leg to score both a solid chunk of America's bountiful resources and pound a bigass stake into their former rival's corpse?

>> No.72334269

>>72334193
Russia's more likely to go for their old colonies in Alaska first while the PRC's after Cali, if Canada doesn't scramble for the other scraps it's only a matter of time before it too gets recolonised.

>> No.72334310

>>72334269
China and Russia can pursue multiple avenues of conquest, my man. The territory's already been conquered by The Democratic People's Republic of Victoria, all these countries have to do is go "we'll give you X amount of military hardware and build X infrastructure, and you'll let us have the national forests and resource rights in exchange". And the protagonists taking this deal is presented as nothing but a good thing, because boy howdy, the author William Lind is a man who knows his realpolitik.

>> No.72334398

>>72334193
>You don't think both China and Russia would give an arm and a leg to score both a solid chunk of America's bountiful resources and pound a bigass stake into their former rival's corpse?
Nope.
Both China and Russia have more immediate concerns than trying overt conquest of the American continent. They are large countries home to multitudes of people whose rivalries have, can, and likely will again escalate into violence. Both countries must also face significant geopolitical threats from their neighbors, which can further threaten their internal stability. Then, even without the cohesion of the federal government, an actual invasion of America is practically begging to get embroiled in drawn out guerrilla war. Russia would rather reclaim the territories that broke away during the USSR collapse. China would rather do the traditional chinesey thing of extorting its neighbors to finance increasing levels of corruption within the ruling bureaucracy.
Simply removing the US federal government as a player on the world stage is enough.

>> No.72334910

>>72334269
>Alaska
Nah
Russia will just kick their rival while he's down, destabilise the various feuding states with agents and disinfo, while making a grab for Arctic marine resources

>exactly what they're doing now

>> No.72336208

>>72333484
Hey, I can see it just fine.

>> No.72336353

>>72331929
Don't let the door hit you on the way out then

>> No.72337149

>>72334398
The Chinese would take over US shit in the pacific, but would probably stop short of Hawaii. The Russians might use the absence of USA as an opportunity to take over Ukraine and maybe parts of Eastern Europe like the Baltic countries. The only counties that could credibly invade the USA are Canada and Mexico. Even they would probably sugar coat it by calling it a "humanitarian intervention" or something happy like that.

>> No.72337153

>>72317545
Boomerbonic plague isn't a system-overthrowing jolt in and of itself, the great depression it'll create is.

>> No.72337363

>>72316847
>>72321963
>>72323302
The corporations are fine with bribing goverments to act as their bullyboys instead of hiring mercenaries to run things directly.
>>72330290
>You probably dont remember this but the US granted political asylum to a BC Native leader in 2003 after a ranch occupation, the dude made his case to a judge that he was likely going to be disappeared if he ever got extradited.
The US grants asylum to a lot of people on extremely dubious grounds.

>> No.72338064

>>72321927
Can't help but notice the absence of WW3 since the invention of the atomic bomb guaranteed it couldn't be won. He was right, he just underestimated the explosiveness required.

>> No.72338436

>>72338064
Eh, I feel like the radioactivity plays just as big a role. Atomic bombs were initially thought of as just another class of specialty munition like Grand Slams or dam busters.

>> No.72339764

>>72336353
You'd become a chinese colony within hours of leaving the protection of the US military.

>> No.72340121

>>72339764
As long as we don't have to deal with you

>> No.72340399

>>72337149
>The Chinese would take over US shit in the pacific, but would probably stop short of Hawaii.
The Chinese would stop well short of Hawaii.
Absent the US as a counterweight, we can expect Japan to militarize overnight. The country is practically one screwdriver away from being a nuclear power, and would quickly form a coalition including all the pacific countries that were formerly under the US aegis. Even India is likely to get in on this; after Modi kicks out the last muslim he'll need another enemy to rally the public against and China is perfect for that.
At most China will retake Taiwan. Depending on how much foreshadowing there was prior to the collapse of the US they might be able to adequately prepare, but if Taiwan does manage to hold out against Chinese invasion, it'll be because of corruption/incompetence on China's part.

>The only counties that could credibly invade the USA are Canada and Mexico. Even they would probably sugar coat it by calling it a "humanitarian intervention" or something happy like that.
Canada is very unlikely, even as a humanitarian intervention. Canada lacks the manpower and the political jingoism necessary to pull it off solo. They could be a part of a broader UN intervention, but the goal of the exercise would be to prolong American instability in order to keep the people from quickly coming back together under a government the international elites don't approve of.

Mexico on the other hand, I feel would own up to the fact that their invasion is rooted in revanchism. Mexico has gotten the shit end of the stick for a long time now, and a balkanized US would be the perfect opportunity for revenge. The Mexican government would probably see the high number of hispanics living in the US as a source of saboteurs and intel. Alternatively, one or two of the more powerful cartels might move in to establish their very own narcostate in the ashes. Southern California would be hit hardest.

>> No.72340473

Possibly relevant

>> No.72340553

>>72329598
When the Black Panthers went to a state government, all that changed was that they got better security in the capital building.

Mind you, the Black Panthers brought unloaded guns with no ammunition because it was only to make a point and they were very averse to the possibility of actually starting an armed conflict, which isn't the case in Michigan.

>> No.72340620

>>72330693
>a lot of shitholes with less people than portugal.
>what exactly is going to stop the bigger states ganking them?
There is no complete answer to this question, but there would definitely be diplomatic concerns for those larger states. Any major powers getting involved would cause coalitions to form quickly, for one. But it's still possible that a savvy expansionist coastal power could be very relevant in these areas. I think navigating this situation would be a good setting for a campaign, which is kind of the point.

>> No.72340650

>>72340399
We're talking about the same nation whose police stand down against druglords since they lack the firepower advantage. If the US government wasn't there to stop them, I'd give /k/ decent odds of being able to fight the mexican army off, if not outright try and carve out an empire.

>> No.72340660

>>72339764
California has a slightly greater population and markedly greater economy than Canada, and despite of what the memes might tell you, Canada isn't a Chinese colony.
>>72340399
>Canada is very unlikely, even as a humanitarian intervention. Canada lacks the manpower and the political jingoism necessary to pull it off solo.
There's also the issue of Canada having spent the last two centuries struggling to build its identity on not being the USA. The sudden incorporation of millions of former American citizens would be a cultural-political nightmare.
More likely, if Canada were to get involved at all, it would be to prop up successor governments of convenience, like the Midwest Partnership

>> No.72340691

>>72321963
You know the Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act that the Senate scrambled to get through this year?
What if I told you it had been sitting on the backburner for a full year?
HR748 was sponsored by Rep. Courtney, Joe [D-CT-2] and introduced on 01/24/2019 to the house.
How much do we want to bet that the company that makes the vaccine also made the virus because we going full Deus Ex up in here.

>> No.72340718

>>72340650
I never said that Mexico or the Narcos would be successful in the long term, just that they'd be the most likely to make the earnest attempt.

>> No.72340719

>>72337153
>Boomerbonic
This meme is very overblown with regards to the facts. The majority of people on respirators now are in the 15-40 age range. The reason there's not a high number of deaths from them is because they can survive longer in that state, but the numbers that are able to successfully get off the respirators and return to healthy life are still way lower than the number dying. Additionally, even those who survive have to deal with the respiratory and neural damage, which will take years at best and some of which will inevitably be permanent.

>> No.72340778

>>72337149
>but would probably stop short of Hawaii
Why would the Chinese stop short of Hawai'i? Unless someone else stops them, they'll take and colonize every small island in the pacific and many in the Indoneseia region and even Indian ocean (although the premise that nobody stops them would be rare in Indonesia and even less likely the further west they looked).

>> No.72340987

>>72340778
>Unless someone else stops them
That's the thing.
There's lots of people with an interest in stopping China.
Japan, Australia, India, the UK, Russia, Philippines, Indonesia, Taiwan, France, and literally everyone else who isn't landlocked or North Korea.
Except even North Korea, as a buffer state, doesn't want China to get too big or they'd loose their utility as a buffer state.

>> No.72341029

>>72310680
But don't most Great Plains states depend on federal financial assistance mostly pulled from tax revenue in Coastal regions?

>> No.72341129

>>72329598
It not so much that they stormed the place as they pulled they're usual stunt of showing up at the capitol with their AR15s but got pissy because the police wouldn't let them in the gallery because it was being used by the government body to have more room for physical distancing. See these chuckle heads show up to these things armed like that all the time in states with open carry laws but they are too much of a bunch of pussies to actually DO anything.

>> No.72341203

>>72317352
>communist utopia
>death camps for white people
It is sad to see what the Marxist idea has become in the US under leadership of FBI.

>> No.72341366

>>72340719
On the otherhand it is absolutely wiping out most members of The Greatest Generation and The Silent Generation it gets it's hands on like it did in Italy.

>> No.72341455

>>72337363
>The US grants asylum to a lot of people on extremely dubious grounds

Never before or since to a Canadian citizen.

>> No.72341497

>>72333404
It's fascinating to read about canadan politics outside the perspective of a sheltered ubranite whose idea of american politics (and his own) comes from the Daily Show and John Oliver

>> No.72341594

>>72333404
Dude, rural life is dying. Get out while you still can.

>> No.72341951

>>72340778
The Chinese military is built primarily for the defence of China. This is because they are new to their superpower status and have yet to develop effective means of projecting power around the world. The logistical challenge would be significant and literally no-one (not even North Korea) would want them to succeed. There is plenty of trouble for the Chinese to find closer to home that would keep them occupied. Like the Japanese as >>72340399 points out. They would be far more likely to try to win over whoever ends up as the local boss with economic assistance (read: cash).

>> No.72342086

>>72340691
There's something seriously wrong with the system when a bill from 2019 is "amended" in 2020 with "strike all after the enacting clause and insert the following text". I guess it works RAW, but surely it can't be intended that the senate can just take a bill that's passed the house and just overwrite all the text.

https://www.congress.gov/congressional-record/2020/03/25/senate-section/article/S2063-3

>> No.72342213

>>72342086
That doesn't sound like good governance.

>> No.72342371

>>72341497

Fuck John Oliver, that cunt comes anywhere close to Manitoba and he's moose bait.

That fucking hypocrite made fun of us during his last election coverage for having laws that fined him for saying shit about our elections, you know, him being a foreign media trying to influence the election, you know... Called us pussies and even made a fucking song about it... two months later he's calling for sanctions against Russia for ads bot littering Facebook.

But noooooo, we're the pussies for fining him 5k per opinion segment he does, you know, something he's barely going to notice on his show's budget, while America must start an Assassin's War against Russia or else Trump will have succeeded in a Putin-backed fascist takeover of the White House.

Fuck John Oliver. Tie him up naked on top of Mount-Royal during a snowstorm. God it'd make me happy.

>> No.72342544

>>72310680
The greatplain's chads can't survive without the export industry of cash crops provides by the east and west coastal regions, and soemthing like a full third of the energy production of the entire country is dependent upon the gulf states...

>> No.72342588

>>72317352
major issue I see there is that you more or less have to cut Louisiana in half ish. The lower half is both New Orleans and the Acadiana region, which are primarily catholic. Northern louisiana would 100% be dixie but southern louisiana is it's own, weirdly liberal and french beast.

>> No.72342726

>>72340473
Thanks anon, I'm kinda bummed no-one cared about the cyberpunk part of the OP.

Also drive-thru strippers is just something that should be more known about

>> No.72342727

>>72332714
>That filename

>> No.72342813

>>72342588
>The lower half is both New Orleans and the Acadiana region, which are primarily catholic. Northern louisiana would 100% be dixie but southern louisiana is it's own, weirdly liberal and french beast.
So what you're saying it Louisiana should throw its lot in with the corridor from New Brunswick through Quebec into eastern and northern Ontario to revive New France?

>> No.72342817

>>72333579
That first point speaks to me on an emotional level, because during the great depression down here in Louisiana, there was a concerted effort by the state level government to eradicate cajun french. When I was in school the older teachers (like the 70-80 year old ladies) would tell stories about how they were forced to literally punish and ignore any children who spoke french for any reason, even things like asking to go to the bathroom, to treat them as if they hadn't spoken up at all, then punish them for soiling themselves, or to punish them if they persisted in speaking cajun french. Keeping in mind most teachers down here at the time were bilingual because of how heavily mixed the population was of english and french speakers. And I know that there were other measures like making it illegal to publish adverts in papers in french and similar things iirc

People make fun of Quebec about their whole nigh-manic levels of devotion to preserving the french language up there, but I can't imagine that they didn't go through very similar things at various points in their history. After all, it all but succeeded here in obliterating french speaking. It still happens in a lot of the more rural towns (like the super boonies), but in the big cities like New Orleans, Lafayette, Baton Rouge, etc? Not common in the least.

That shit leaves scars.

>> No.72342932

>>72337149
and both of them would use weakening of the USA to take cracks at various US backed international conventions and laws (Berne Convetion and Creative Commons are both things more or less constantly being assaulted by both nations and they're underpinnings of the international copyright system especially in protecting tiny creators and artists online).

The danger of a weakening USA is not in the US being directly invaded, but in it's hegemony over the geopolitical structure of the world passing onto another nation. That wouldn't be UTTERLY horrific (just really really REALLY bad) if Russia came out on top... but if China does I am genuinely terrified as someone who has done a lot of business on Mainland china. The basic assumptions of business ethics that the USA (often half sarcastically) upholds with it's hegemony over trade and international law just don't exist there. If normal mainland chinese business ethics and practices became the NORM the world over things could get really fucked up, especially for anybody who was a very small creative or business type. Things aren't great for them NOW but you just have to look at what constitutes good business ethics on mainland china to see how it can get so much fucking worse.

>> No.72343055

>>72342932
I'm less worried about the shift of hegemony from the US to China as much as I am shift into a world where there is no hegemon. Not because I'm particularly fond of licking boots, but because without a superpower half-nobly and half-dickishly holding up the global system, the global system just kind of stops existing.

I don't really want to get pulled back into a world where everything's divvyed up between a handful of nations and their spheres of influence again. This my just be wild, unfounded paranoia on my part, I don't know.

>> No.72343220

>>72340399
Japan would likely hook up, hardcore, with a bunch of the other south pacific nations, the group that Singapore is currently a major power in. Maybe drag Australia in, assuming that the formerly imperially occupied portions of that existing alliance can get over their utter visceral hatred of Japan. They could shut down something like 40-60% of China's fossil fuel imports overnight if they wanted and China could do jack shit about it because their navy is so basic bitch compared even to the smaller ones like Singapore's (who happily 'misfire' cruise missiles off the bows of China's warships when they try to muscle their way into shows of force in Singapore's waters, say what you want for that tiny totaletarian beuracracy, they take no shit). It's the big reason that China is making such a heavy push for green energy, not out of a duty to the environment or anything like that, but to make themselves less dependent on imports and thus influenced through them.

>> No.72343272

>>72340399
>>72343220
How well do the US and India get along? It seems like they'd make a natural ally to keep Chinese aspirations in check.

>> No.72343295

>>72317683
>The Blue States become some demented cross between Singapore and Cape Town: Whiny delusional people surrounded by massive shanty towns full of shitty poor people.

>> No.72343342

>>72342813
Not sure, it's weird because the culture doesn't match THERE either. It's a primarily catholic region, with a massive diversity of races from how many different groups have come here at different times.

>Native American Baseline
>French Colonists
>Spanish Colonists
>Acadian Diaspora primarily settles here after the conquest of Canada following the French and Indian War
>More French Colonists
>Annexation of part of Spanish/Portugese Florida (where we get the tip of the boot)
>Louisiana Purchase and the expansion west, leading to the explosion of the Mississippi River mouth, and thus New Orleans, as the primary trade port in the entire USA, leading to a massive influx of immigration from the rest of the states, as well as settlers who didn't cut it finding their way down here eventually, then spreading out into the swamps and Bayous for alternative trade routes found in the Atchafalaya Basin
>Reconstruction, the massive immigration of displaced black populations to Louisiana before it began SERIOUSLY ramping up it's own jim crow laws, since it had already had, paradoxically, some of the most liberal slave and interracial laws in the entire confederacy due to the massive carribean, mulato, and creol populations that already existed there.
>More immigration weirdness as the trans continental north-south line from Chicago to New Orleans is canceled during Reconstruction as the plan goes from treating the occupied south as a war torn part of their own nation to occupied territory (this alone accounts for something like 95% of the problems of the entire bible belt even to this day)
>The first oil booms begin to take off, leading to populations from China and other east asian nations that had previously been part of the infrastructural expansions of the west to coming here in massive waves to assist in the new construction of energy infrastructure
>cont.

>> No.72343364

>>72343055
I would rather there be a bit more chaos than for a hearltess totalitarian nation like China to become the next global hyperpower

>> No.72343402

>>72343295
>In the distant future of 20XX, crack has become a form of currency with welfare and food stamps losing value.
>Migrating bands of crackheads end up leaving the midwest and festering on the coasts where there's more crack.
>Politicians and CEOs realize crack is now more valuable than gold, so they set up crack farms to feed crackheads crack and send them to attack other crackheads serving rival corporations.
>Shopping cart chariots, brutal crack warriors wearing Squirrel pelts and Paw Patrol backpacks, fighting each other with lawn chairs and sharpened sticks.
Crackpunk.

>> No.72343466

>>72343342
>The videogame industry is almost literally born in Shreveport, the northern most city of Louisiana of any size, and spurs on development of tech colleges, some that can compete at an IV League level in pure computer sciences if nothing else, in the larger cities to the south, leading to large influxes of college style immigration and more than a few start ups in the surrounding area based around digital entertainment. Even today, about 75% of all post processing for CG from hollywood movies is preformed out of University of Lafayette due to their continuous investment into this department. Smaug from the Hobbit? Happened in the servers there. Avatar? Maybe not ALL of the post processing, but a good bit of it certainly went down there, the new Star Trek movies? Yep. (tbc: they didn't MAKE the scenes here, they just exported the files to be run through massive servers for post processing)
>The oil center is placed in Lafayette Louisiana, and the newest oil and fossil fuel boom occurs, leading to many energy companies from across the world putting up offices in the acadiana, new orleans, and baton rogue areas of the southern half of the state, while almost entirely ignoring the northern half. Leading to even more communities from across the damn world forming.

The last big wave I was aware of was made up, primarily, of Koreans and Philipinos. We've also got a huge slavic population, specifically Roma, who are refugees from the balkans and other east european countries. My dad (a civil law lawyer) does a lot of work for them getting them off of spurious charges from their home governments or angry rivals from wherever they were born trying to stick them back into the gulags, and in return they help out my family with mechanical trouble and other odd jobs.
>cont

>> No.72343524

>>72326591
You would not believe how much these people play lip service to socialist ideas just to win public support while letting the poor fester in massive Crackhead tent cities. It turns out giving shitty deadbeats free money does wonders for public opinion, enough to ignore all the surveillance, glass ceiling societal advancement, and insane debt festered on everyone save for the wealthy. Just give the people their next fix and they'll shut the hell up.

I know a guy who owns a trucking fleet and he only hires Mexicans due to them preferring meth, making them work better than a white guy on heroin. That's how fucked California is.

>>72343402
It's already here, just open your eyes.

>> No.72343545

>>72343466

I think we got a large refugee population because Louisiana is like, one of only 2 states that follows a civil law code based on the napleonic code, which means that rather than following the rules of common law in terms of court judgements (which is primarily based on precedent and history), it follows a codified set of laws, and due to the weirdness of immigration law, it makes it REALLY DIFFICULT to remove someone's refugee status here once they've gotten it, and the state judiciate might primarily be on the redder and conservative side of things, but they're absolutely RABID about maintaining their primacy as much as possible over any federal rulings or interference, so they hate ICE with an unholy passion for the most part, especially since ICE has been abusing it's 'you can search shit without a warrant within 100 miles of any border of the USA' grant around here due to how many ports we got and it's proximity to Mexico.

Which, to finish off this whole thing:
>>72342813
>>72343342
>>72343466

means that southern Louisiana is a very weirdly red, conservative part of the USA that is multiracial and multiculutral as fuck. Most of us blame it on gerrymandering and redmapping, our state is BADLY gerrymandered, and the southern half o the state, which makes up the majority of the population, would be 1 blue district and 2 or 3 swing districts, rather than 1 blue district and 5 red ones.

>> No.72343582

>>72340399
It wouldn't be the Mexicans launching an 'official' invasion. It'd be Cartels, Santa Muerte types, and PMCs serving one Corp or another. I know enough beaners who'd see it as a war of liberation where they'll finally get their precious blondes, only to find themselves getting herded by gun point into a methlab. You'd be amazed at how many of them see the Cartels as Robin Hood and his Merry Men. Even with the Cartels taping their executions.

>> No.72343596

>>72342813
>>72343545
Final judgement: South Louisiana would be it's own weird creole thing lead from New Orleans, surviving on oil exports, rice farming, and fishing, and likely called "The Coonass Territories" by everyone around it. Assuming it wasn't wiped out entirely for being a sinful blight on the bible belt. They wouldn't even have to work hard. Just wait 20 years and the hurricanes will do it if we don't have federal aid and the army corps of engineers.

>> No.72343778

>>72310826
>I've no idea what you're trying to say

Take it from someone who actually works for state government in Tennessee; the moment the people living in major cities realize they have to depend on the idiot hicks in thier own rural areas to keep food production up is the moment when the South realizes how fucked it is if it ever tries to secede. And those same idiot hicks aren't as innawoods as they'd like to have the rest of the country think they are. The moment electricity, running water, and gasoline stop being a given, they will all try to escape enmass.

Cali and the entire Boston-DC corridor have enough cash and manpower to turn everything outside of major cities into thriving farmland. The southern states barely have enough money to keep their own schools and hospitals open.

>> No.72343914

>>72343778
Texas, Georgia, and Florida are the only Southern states that don't seem financially retarded.

>> No.72344260

>>72343914
>Texas
Oil, beef, and overall size
>Georgia
One of the county's top 5 hubs for international travel and a major agricultrual force
>Florida
The country's only tropical region that can be driven to, plus Mouse Money, plus a major agricultural force

Not hard to see why.

>> No.72345005

>>72341951
>The Chinese military is built primarily for the defense of China
If by 'defense' you mean 'keeping the average pleb Chinese from revolting against their leaders' than yes.

>> No.72345091

>>72317352
>Maxine Waters and the Silicon Valley/Hollywood/media capitalist ghoul squad
>communist
lmao no, with those people in charge California would be ancapistan

>> No.72345095

>>72345005
Well, yes. Although I am sure they would blame any internal disorder on the USA, so in a delusional sense it would defence from an outside threat.

>> No.72345121

>>72338064
Only because nukes were kept out of everyone's hands. Even then the Cold War was a close thing.

>>72340473
>neon anime
It's not anime when it's real, it's based on pics of Tokyo and HK

>>72340691
>lol I don't know how bills work and I must tinfoil

>>72343220
>Singapore's (who happily 'misfire' cruise missiles off the bows of China's warships when they try to muscle their way into shows of force in Singapore's waters
Since when has Singapore ever done that?! Since when has China ever muscled into Singapore waters?!

>>72341951
Yeah defence of "China" all the way down the 9DL

>> No.72345147

>>72311701
It's more we'd go with NorCal (Cali would break up hard in any Balkanization and even Texas might split) And this is based more on Corona response, so it makes sense that even if we hate those fucks, we can't let a potential vector have anything.

>> No.72345221

>>72343272
This has been true for a while but Trump shifted substantially away from working with India. He's been willing to concede points to China at India's expense even when it wasn't super necessary.

>> No.72345224

>>72322979
I'll be honest with you, the bloc still serves it's function of being a kingmaker, due to the way Canadian politics handle seat assignation.

I'll keep voting Bloc, because of this slim chance of Bloc being the one to decide who becomes the PM of canada, and giving more power to the province that way.

also because it drives the rest of canada nut that we don't embark in this barely disguised two party system [/spoiler[

>> No.72345286

I really have to ask why people think that a balkanized US would have it's successor states be voluntary things? Like, there's a lot in this thread and past threads with similar topics about how certain states hate the populations of other states, or how certain areas within a state would rather associate with another state, but what makes you think that they'd be given a say in it at all?

If the United States shatters, we won't wind up with a dozen well-functioning and representative governments formed by voluntary association or some shit. Strong states or strong clusters of states will seek to corral neighboring states which have something they need, and they will either succeed in doing so or drive those states into the arms of another strong state.

>> No.72345317

>>72345286
Not only that. Within each strong successor the reins will be held by the people who took control. These people are more likely to be ruthless, drastic and brutal than kind, thoughtful and conciliatory.

>> No.72345372

>>72343596
Fine, fine, so no unified cyberpunk pan-north-american New France.
You could still have the aforementioned French-speaking regions of Canada as a standalone polity, governed by a tenuous partnership between the oil and shipping of New Brunswick, the manufacturing and mining of northern Ontario and Quebec (minus all or part of Ungava, which presumably ends up in Inuit hands as part of Newnavut), and whatever remains of the governments active in the Ottawa-Montreal-Quebec corridor.

>> No.72345374

>>72345317
The main question is 'what causes' the balkanization,

is it a slow decline of the American Ideal that makes the states realize "We can do better on our own"

or a bloody civil war tearing apart the country and ending in an uneasy peace?

>> No.72345376

>>72345286
Because it actually takes a huge amount of resources to control a population like that. And in US where so many people have so many guns? The confusion of that battlefield would make Syria look like child's play in slow-mo.

As it is, it's likely that the state borders would be porous as fuck in reality, due to lack of resources to police and the fact that the US has not had the need for internal borders for the best part of 2 centuries now

>> No.72345515

>>72345376
You act like Cali/New York blocs would have to 'control' the central states with military force, how is anyone in the flyover going to make money without being backed by a coastal power with an actual economy? The flyovers would not want to go it alone.

>> No.72345551

>>72345515
The flyovers control the grain and the oil, Why would they delegate their power to a man on the 5th avenue who never sowed a field?

>> No.72345593

>>72345551
Maybe because their farms need industrial equipment to keep running, chemicals, etc, and remember that a huge portion of the central states are unemployed or retired, who's going to pay their bills? Not to mention that farmer Bob still wants his consumer goods the same as anyone. The flyovers have been on the federal tit for at least half a century, they're gonna need someone to come replace momma.

>> No.72345606

>>72345551
For the same reason every society since the invention of agriculture has centralized their power in urban centers and dominated the hinterland from the metropole?

>> No.72345669

>>72345593
In a balkanized US, The flyovers would very much have the incencitive to spend money on themselves, rather than voting against their own interest by giving powers to states that, in such a situation, would no doubt go 'full democracy' and ask the less populous states to kiss their ass.

>> No.72345720

>>72345669
If the federal government is no longer in effective control, then the flyovers don't have any money, ether because the US dollar has no value anymore, or because their welfare has simply stopped. Now you might say "well the coastal states money will all be devalued too", yes, true, but the coastal states have a huge industrial base and ready workforce, plus, let's be honest, they are just plain better run than the flyovers, so the coasts will clearly be able to establish themselves first and start producing the things the flyovers need before they could do it themselves.

The flyover states can barely even run themselves now with federal aid, some parts of the country have third world levels of sanitation and public heath infrastructure, how the hell are the kind of brain trusts behind the Kansas tax cuts gonna possibly sustain themselves when nobody is subsidising them?

>> No.72345794

>>72345372
One millions hours in MS Paint

>> No.72345795

An uneasy alliance between aging governments weakened by the megacorporations' rise and formerly anti-government populists could be good. Make government great again vs ancaps and woke capital.

>> No.72345825

the cold-war showed that the smart solution is to just bite the bullet and give people what they want. There were genuine threats that the Italians and French would turn communist. The solution? Just give people workers rights and social programs. Suddenly without anything to complain about, people didn't want to be communist anymore.

Same thing. If the rich were smart, they'd realize how precarious things are, and stop trying to hoard ALL OF THE MONEY, and instead support programs that would give them less money overall, but much more stability. Like even ignoring the whole guillotine thing- sure you can make more money if you do housing scams, but you make less money if your housing scams crash the economy.

>> No.72345868

>>72345825
>the solution to problems is to solve them

>> No.72345870

>>72345720
Some restructuration would no doubt need to be done. But there are definitely in the flyovers the basis for unification.

Firstly, if we pull some Benedict Anderson, they got the 'Imagined community' part down for forming a nation, the idea that there is 'us', the people of the land and 'them' the people of the city.

I think a restructuration like that could involve a sort of 'democratic maoism' or other similar 'directed economy', which would be necessary to employ the small budget in a meaningful way to bring improvement to the regional economy.

I am by no mean a communist, but I recognize the ability of such a program to generate industrial improvement while keeping National sovereignty

>> No.72345883

>>72345794
that is legit beautiful anon, but no doubt would 'Neo France' claim Labrador

>> No.72345890

>>72345515
And the Cali/NYC blocs are gonna be really good at fighting off the flyovers when the latter marches in and demands concessions at gunpoint, amirite?

>>72345606
And every society has had difficulty keeping the hinterland suppressed. Try playing the Sheriff of Nottingham game, you're gonna get Robin Hooded.

>> No.72345909

>>72345825
>you can make more money if you do housing scams, but you make less money if your housing scams crash the economy

Um, anon... this is exactly why the "rich hoards all the money" memes are just that, memes

>> No.72345921

>>72345825
I don't think moderation even exists in the English language anymore. In any case you, as a social elite, need the mental faculties to defer gratification to preserve social stability at the expense of profits this quarter.

>> No.72346016

>>72345890
It’s less the Sheriff of Nottingham game so much as it is the Harrying of the North game, y’dig? It’s hard to control a hinterland, but it’s fair easier to maintain control of fortresses, population centers, resource extraction facilities, and logistics hubs while occasionally sending out rowdy boys to burn a village or two.

>> No.72346061

>>72345890
Bruh, cities have always dunked on rural areas, this goes back to the invention of settled society.

Either everyone becomes a horse archer nomad or they just wind up neglected provinces for a city-state.

>> No.72346071

>>72345883
I just went by census divisions, so the borders are garbage, but I figured Newfoundland loses Labrador at the same time Quebec loses Ungava and for the same reason. Those regions are mostly FN/Inuit. Although maybe they get Labrador minus Nunatsiavut.

>> No.72346097

>>72310826
>I've no idea what you're trying to say.
You know the top 13 of Mitch McConnel’s campaign donors aren’t even in the state that he represents? In fact, they’re mostly living or based in blue states. This is because red states put out so little revenue that the funds needed to run for elections simply don’t exist in their home states, so they need to look to other groups and organizations to fund elections. This is one of the reasons why no matter how many governors and senators and congressman Republicans get elected to red states their finances never seem to improve; you’re quasi-obligated to help out your constituents because they keep you in political power, but outside of Texas (which honestly could be a nation by itself without problems) almost all red states are kind of welfare absorbers and thus never actually help their congressmen or senators or governors get elected beyond casting votes. This vote-casting would be real important, but the one thing that seems universally true if human beings is that it’s REALLY easy to manipulate us en-masse using media of any kind so actually getting them to vote is trivial at best.

I feel the need to note I’m not actually blaming Republicans for this because this actually hasn’t always been true, it’s just the way elections and economics have changed over time have altered the political priorities of our elected officials.

>> No.72346103

>>72345890
>And the Cali/NYC blocs are gonna be really good at fighting off the flyovers when the latter marches in and demands concessions at gunpoint, amirite?

And the tiny states are gonna intimidate the big states how exactly?

[it thinks my link is spam but look it up]

Most US servicement are from the bigger states, the flyovers aren't particularly more militarised than the coasts (except Florida for some reason but they were bound to control their own bloc anyway). Soldiers are gonna be loyal to where they were raised and their families live.

>> No.72346125

>>72311004
>California and Oregon have agriculture
God we have so many farms up here. Like, ninety percent of the Willamette Valley is taken up by fucking farms and Northern California feeds the entire west fucking coast by itself.

>> No.72346134

>>72345825
>>72345921
Has giving them what they want ever satisfied dole-bludgers? They'll just ask for more more more. Hell, we live in the most comfortable era of our times, with the greatest possibilities all around for socio-economic mobility, the most affirmative action of all kinds for all kinds of (allegedly) disenfranchised groups, and what do they want? MORE.

Fucking cry me a river, it's peasants in Africa and India and China who deserve the sympathy, not these entitled little shits.

>> No.72346166

>>72345224

I can respect the strategy, even if I dont respect the Bloc itself nowadays. And French-Canadians certainly dont seem to have any better options on the Federal level.

And yes, anything to drive away from the Lib/Con dichotomy helps. Although the NDP is really fucking shit nowadays too...

>> No.72346182

>>72345794

My God this needs to happen so bad, and yet there is no fucking timeline in which it will.

Fml.

>> No.72346196

>>72346134
>he greatest possibilities all around for socio-economic mobility

ok boomer

>> No.72346238

>>72346071
Here's my take on it,

the dotted portion would likely be a highly contested area, due to the presence of the so important dams to the Quebec energy grid

>> No.72346253

>>72346134
>Hell, we live in the most comfortable era of our times, with the greatest possibilities all around for socio-economic mobility, the most affirmative action of all kinds for all kinds

This is your brains on Media.

>> No.72346254

>>72327575
All owned, or partly owned, by Chiang. Canada isn't a real nation, instead it's this bizarre corporate condominium with an immigration system designed to bring over specialized tech workers as that's the current big industry. Hence why Pajeet gets in over Vlad, and why Pajeet brings in Pajeeta, Pajet, Paqeet, and Poojet. Indians make up most of the population now by my calculations.

>> No.72346259

>>72346134
economic mobility is actually going down and has been for 30 years my man
it turns out cutting education, welfare and healthcare spending traps people in cycles of poverty

>> No.72346286

>>72346259
But anon, you can just magic money into your bank account by wishing real hard, so poverty must be explicitly and completely the fault of the individual...

>> No.72346300

>>72346286
Prosperity Gospel is heresy.

>> No.72346304

>>72346238

Quebec would 100% genocide its Native population before it parted with its hydro-electricity. It's half of their their economic strategy.

>> No.72346314

>>72345890
>And the Cali/NYC blocs are gonna be really good at fighting off the flyovers when the latter marches in and demands concessions at gunpoint, amirite?
Well yeah, they have an advantage in population, manufacturing, and technology, the exact things that have won every symmetrical war since the industrial revolution. It's possible the flyovers stay independant by fighting guerilla war against any coastal interlopers but they sure as hell aren't going on the offensive.

>> No.72346348

>>72346304
Mhm, but we're assuming a 'cyberpunk/balkanized' situation where the natives are somehow very strong.

>> No.72346426

>>72346196
>>72346253
^ No, THIS is your brains on media.

The Internet has created so much opportunity but you can't see it all around you. Well alright, suit yourself; guess what - you get what you deserve.

>>72346259
Those are memes not facts

>cutting education
US education funding is at ATH
>welfare
ATH
>healthcare
dipped a bit after Obama, but still a steady increase over the decades

>> No.72346442

>>72346314
>Well yeah, they have an advantage in population, manufacturing, and technology, the exact things that have won every symmetrical war since the industrial revolution.

I mean, the red states thought that shit didn’t matter back during the last time we had a big disagreement, and they still won.

Oh.
Wait.

>> No.72346452

>>72346182
This is a cyberpunk/north-american balkanization thread. We can just make this timeline happen for the purposes of the setting.

>Alberta makes good on its ill-advised threat to separate, losing most of Treaty 8 territory, but gaining parts of inland BC, effectively relegating them to third world status.
>The remaining parts of BC including Vancouver island, effectively cut off from Canada, joins the Western States Pact from the OP.
>Manitoba and Saskatchewan virtually disintegrate overnight, with everything east of Lloydminster breaking into tiny pieces based on with First Nation warlord has the most guns.
>Some Louis Riel larpers manage to keep Winnipeg more or less intact, and are desperately trying to rebuild Canada starting with Rupert's Land.
>The Inuit band together and decide "Fuck it. We're going back to the old ways now" and manage to sway large parts of Alaska through Newfoundland to their side.
>Everything south of the Cornwall-Sudbury line is ruled by Queen's Park, claims to be the real Canada.
>Nouvelle France emerges from the aforementioned corpo-governmental alliance, with loose backing from the UN and EU, where France uses its permanent seat on the UNSC to prevent any action which might threaten Nouvelle France's regional power.

>> No.72346456

>>72346314
Modern megacities have a historically new level of logistical disadvantage, due to electricity and oil enabling correspondingly increased population density. They'll starve to death faster than ever before if they lose supply lines, and their supply lines are also more fragile than ever before.

The flyovers don't need a war, not even a guerilla war. Cut the power and the cities are paralyzed. Cut the bridges or water, and the cities harbours will struggle to keep them alive. A few mines or torpedoes from a dissident submarine, B52, or Florida-militia saboteur, and it's all over.

>> No.72346483

>>72346456
>dissident submarine

>> No.72346493

>>72346238
I mean, fair. Like I said, I just used census divisions, and didn't really take into account the exact distribution of economic activity. Odds are the hydroelectric dams, much like the mining areas, would be key to Nouvelle France's survival.

>> No.72346497

>>72346348

Then you would have some negotiations for Quebec to retain exploitation rights over the dams, and likely control of the Hudson's Bay. There really arent that many Natives left. You'd have to go all Shadowrun "Natives get magical powers" to explain how they could really trouble even Quebec on the long term.

The latest demands for an Indian Partition of Quebec was for like a third of the territory, on the side of Labrador, a large corridor going from the st-Lawrence up to the very top of the province.

Came as a huge shock too because the man announcing the demand was a Native politician who had built his career by being way more reasonable than most Native chiefs are. He (Chief Gros Louis) was the Chief of the nicest reservation there is in Canada, in Quebec City. You usually dont know you've entered the reservation until you are downtown and spot the teepee and native restaurants. But after something like 30 years of being reasonable and mostly respected by French-Canadians, he makes this absolutely ridiculous demand that would never even be considered seriously.

>> No.72346534

>>72346452
>First Nation warlord

One of the largest Native Nation of the area are named the Blood Tribe. If that doesnt beg to be turned into a roving band of scavenging madmen, I dont know what could. (Tho in rl they are pretty chill folks)

>> No.72346587

>>72346456

That's where Canada/Nouvelle-France becomes a power player. Nearly half of the 13 colonies was once heated/lighted by Quebec's Hydro (that probably changed in the last few years tho).

>> No.72346615

>>72346016
Such targets are lots more decentralised and spread out than in medieval times though

>>72346314
>It's possible the flyovers stay independant by fighting guerilla war
That's my point; they will make taking them or even raiding them more trouble than it will be ultimately worth

>> No.72346616

>>72346587
it's still a thing.

Worse is that in the contract we signed, there's a clause that says "If you don't have enough power to power us and yourselves, Americans get priority"

>> No.72346642

>>72346452
>>Everything south of the Cornwall-Sudbury line is ruled by Queen's Park, claims to be the real Canada.

And this is where everyone else would go get their slaves. 100% justified.

>> No.72346656

>>72346456
I get it. You want these things to actually work in real life.
They don’t. Sorry.

>> No.72346685

>>72346616

Are you guys anywhere close to ever being in the red tho? I dont remember ever hearing about shortages.

Seriously people dont give you folks enough props for what you built there. Fuckhuge economic/political asset. I know you get shit for the Maritimes export contracts, but that's just business, and the Maritimes being bad faith players. You deserve to milk them for what you did for them there.

>> No.72346693

>>72346615
>Such targets are lots more decentralised and spread out than in medieval times though
Such targets are also connected by much faster and more robust means of transport and communication than in medieval times, however.
>>72346616
That sounds like a bad contract to have signed. I assume there was some kind of additional pressure involved?

>> No.72346745

>>72346615
>That's my point; they will make taking them or even raiding them more trouble than it will be ultimately worth
Sure, but assuming that big coastal states like California, Florida and Texas can hold onto the important stuff inside their borders, they need a lot less from the midwest and rust belt states than those states need from the coast.

>> No.72346788

>>72346693
>That sounds like a bad contract to have signed. I assume there was some kind of additional pressure involved

Not him, but it was likely under duress from shits like Cuomo, apparently he's had Quebec's hydro in his sight for a while.

Not that it likely matters tho. Quebec also heats and lights something like a third of Ontario, and get all the hydro from Labrador to resell at huge premiums because they are the ones who built their dams, taught them how to run them, and bankrolled their constructions (and the fucking cunts have the gall to complain when the Hydro price skyrockets and Quebec makes banks, despite it being clearly written as the fucking intent of the contract)

>> No.72346813

>>72346693
HydroQuebec is trying very hard to appease the americans, they give americans the kind of gifts that are 'too costly' to do here.
Like, there was a municipality who had powerlines planned to go straight through the middle of the town, the ugly, gigantic kind. The town asked "Can you guys bury those? It's gonna be an eyesore and not the kind of shit we want to show people coming into town."

Hydro Quebec replied "No can do, it's standard procedure to have high, standing lines, those are easier to repair anyway."
Same thing happened a few miles down in america, and without even contesting, they just dug them under, no fees asked.

>>72346685
We're not close to being in the red, we're even losing the power we overproduce, but I doubt we're gonna build 'more' dams because we are more divised internally than we were back then, with also green tards that go like 'but muh animals, we can't build dams, it's bad for the wildlife! D-;

>> No.72346840

>>72346452
Might be my last map before I get too drunk for MS Paint
Anything in grey is assumed to be contested. The FN and Inuit only managed to get this much momentum because Canada was still powerful enough to fuck over Alberta when it was first separating, and cucked them out of Treaty 8 lands, including most of their oil, just to spite them. The Louis Riel larpers, mostly Métis (fun fact, the Métis and FN historically hate each other with a passion, with some claiming Métis stands for May Be Entitled to Indian Shit) are loosely aligned with Nouvelle France, given their shared history, and are trying to wrest control over their surrounding territory piece by piece. Nouvelle France, in red, has kept most of Quebec old dams. The Maritimes unified under Newfoundland, and are represented in pink, because I like their old flag.

>> No.72346884

>>72346813
>'but muh animals, we can't build dams, it's bad for the wildlife! D-;

Well, it is really fucking bad for the wildlife. I dont mean to be a Lib here, but the Boreal forest is a huge fucking asset we need to keep and hand over to our kids.
But I mean, sacrifices, at some point, have to be made, if you are going to have a population living in the winters we have. I doubt you guys need to build more dam tho... you can probably just optimize the ones you have for the next few generations.

>> No.72346922

>>72346788
>>72346813
Huh. I suppose my guess would be that they're worried that, if they don't bend over backwards, they might not get access to the American markets or some shit?

Otherwise it just seems bizarre.

>> No.72346935

>>72346840
>fun fact, the Métis and FN historically hate each other with a passion

Holy shit yes. The only time I was actually afraid I was stuck in a fight I couldn't talk myself out of was with a drunk Native who had heard my last name.

Dude was fucking enormous too. Like 3 times my mass. No doubt he could've killed me with a single punch. Fucking random.

But it must be said, Natives hate real easily. They hate the French-Canadian with a passion that makes the worst Eternal Anglo from Ottawa seems real meek in comparison.

>> No.72346969

>>72346935
>But it must be said, Natives hate real easily. They hate the French-Canadian with a passion that makes the worst Eternal Anglo from Ottawa seems real meek in comparison.
Seriously, I've met a lot of natives who would give most poltards a run for their money. I never understood their hatred for the French, mind, given how they were comparatively much kinder than the Brits were when they showed up to the party.

>> No.72346973

>>72346922

Or it's just a safety measure to insure Quebec doesnt create artificial scarcity and uses that to sky rocket the prices, or even possibly punish the States for trade disputes, like with what Trump did a couple years back. I can understand why you would want insurances that Quebec or Canada isnt simply going to turn off the switch on New York in the middle of January. Not that it would be something Quebec would do, they know that's the kind of thing you dont walk back off.

>> No.72347073

>>72346969

I'm a bit crusty on that side of the history, but it comes down to repatriation and the Lac Meech accords IIRC. Quebec wanted its Founding Nation status recognized, or some other PR move like that. A greater degree of recognition than what the Native Nations were getting anyway. It came down to one Native Representative in Manitoba I think weither or not Quebec would get it, and he voted no, while he cried like a little bitch on TV that he knew he was doing something bad to a Nation he didnt have anything against, but he couldn't allow them to have what they didnt get.

There's also the whole boarding school issue, but honestly, that shit should be more on the Catholic's Church head than that of the French.

>> No.72347508

>>72342726
Probably because we're already living in the age of cyberpunk, except it's not all it's cracked up to be. Our cybernetics are lame and rejection prone, our AIs are a joke, our sexbots are little better than humanoid shaped fleshlights, Sure there's armed militias but they haven't really progressed redneck yokels and crazy survivalists. You likely won't be getting into spirited debates over property ownership and tax laws from them, but hey they'll willingly crowd together during a worldwide pandemic, many without masks, waving their guns around as if the virus gives a shit, and chanting LIVE FREE OR DIE though given their behavior it's more LIVE FREE AND DIE HORRIBLY AS YOUR LUNGS AND OTHER MAJOR ORGANS FAIL!

You want to talk the fantasy of cyberpunk, sure, that's awesome. You can even get hot cyberelf slaves wat do. If you want to talk about the reality, fuhgeddaboudit. Stick with William Gibson, you'll have more fun.

>> No.72347522

>>72347508
Some of them remember their masks.

>> No.72347547

>>72346656
>-t. has never done a CARVER matrix

The most dangerous thing about urbanites is condescending ignorance.

>> No.72347854

>>72347547
>condescending ignorance
That's pretty much the human condition, son.

>> No.72347877

>>72346456
>>72347547
Oh hey, are you the guy from that thread a few weeks ago who kept talking up how self-reliant and powerful rural areas are while also having to introduce unanimously mutinous nuclear submarine crews and hypercompetent terror cells striking six electric pressure points to justify a grassroots victory for extremely underdeveloped areas in a wild civil war scenario between urban and rural America?

I remember that thread. It was very funny.

>> No.72347889

>>72345221
>>72343272
The east asia pivot, and the deliberate courtship of India, started under Obama. The US wants to improve relations with India not only to obtain a valuable ally for containing China, but also to gain favorable trade deals. China isn't as attractive for foreign investment as it used to be (especially in the wake of the rona), so there's a push to start outsourcing manufacturing to India instead.

>> No.72348054

>>72347889
'sides, Pakistan totally not knowing where Osama was all this while, reeeaaallly pissed off a lot of folks

>> No.72348105

>>72347877
No, but power grid sabotage isn't hypercompetent stuff. It's Cletus on an ATV with a bolt action skill level.

>> No.72348145

>>72346134
>we live in the most comfortable era of our times
If you're at least moderately wealthy.

>with the greatest possibilities all around for socio-economic mobility
Not even remotely true. The greatest mobility is in times of conquest and military raiding. Even in recent times, economic mobility has been going down since the 80s.

>affirmative action
Not actually important or relevant, and also generally not a thing like it used to be.

>it's peasants in Africa and India and China who deserve the sympathy
There are plenty of places where shit isn't great, but you've picked three examples where overall there's a lot of upwards economic mobility and general levels of wealth are increasing rapidly. The US may have a greater preponderance of entrenched wealthy folks, but these are the areas where hope for the future abounds.

>> No.72348172

>>72347508
>our AIs are a joke,
Never forget that the biggest and most advanced AI made freely available to the general public was intentionally hobbled because it mistook some black people for gorillas.

>> No.72348271

>>72348172
We invented racist AI and they killed it! The bastards!

>> No.72348293

>>72348271
Atleast, when Terminator happen, the robots will say 'POC' instead of 'black people'

>> No.72348473

Here's my semi-balkanized North America from my admittedly more space-focused setting.

>> No.72348754

>>72348293
Half-giants are clearly still fair game.

>> No.72348958

>>72348473
>Greenland
>relevant
>ever
Somebody swallowed the global warming pill a little too hard. Even if the globe warmed to where they had temperate weather, it's still a little island with a handful of people. Denmark isn't very relevant just because the weather is nice by Scandinavian standards, after all.

>> No.72349103

>>72348958
Marine resources, anon

>> No.72349119

>>72348958
Oh, I've got this whole pseudoscience bullshit in my setting to justify it, don't worry. Global Warming is just a small part of it.

Long story short, humanity expands out beyond Earth, Earth's economy begins to use extraterrestrial energy and mineral resources, and then a bigass space war causes Kessler fuckery in orbit for the better part of a century. To meet the desperate energy needs of a rebuilding world, some genetic fuckery was done to create strains of trees that would grow extremely quickly. These trees would then be converted into ash, and then into diamond dust. Which is a pretty solid fuel source, if you can mass produce it using bullshit future technology. So anyways, that's why Canada, Greenland, and the not-appearing-on-this-map Siberian and Antarctic nations are relatively prosperous. This is all like, 300ish or 400ish years in the future, for the record.

>> No.72349302

>>72348958
It's the last place you'd expect to be relevant, thus it will assuredly become the most relevant. That's just how these kinds of movies play out, anon.

>> No.72350009

>>72348958

> Canary Island Super Tsunami finally happens, wiping the east coast from Boston down to Puerto Rido, forcing mass relocalisation for dozens of millions of Burgers

Simulator make it happen now plz.

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