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[ERROR] No.72181521 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

>Caseless

How do you make your sci-fi guns interesting?

>> No.72181563

>>72181521
>gel rounds
able to kill the unarmored and incapacitate the average hard-suit wearer, but won't pierce a bulkhead. Probably
Trying to use them against the average marine in a combat hardsuit and with actual bullets is inadvisable

>> No.72181570

>>72181521
Gun control and gun-free zones.

>> No.72181610

>>72181563
Friend or foe explosive rounds
Low velocity gel-like rounds made of explosive that impact on the target, forming a shaped charge. If the target is determined to be an enemy, the detonator activates and blows a metal cap right through the target, penetration most conventional armour.

>> No.72181628

>>72181570
That's not sci-fi tho, that's cyberpunk

>> No.72181631

>>72181521
I dont know

Guns go against any aesthetic of an fight or confrontation

only thing i can imagine is survival horror right now

also this >>72181570

>> No.72181635

>>72181521
Guns that shoot silly string and confetti cannons.

>> No.72181647

>>72181570

>> No.72181672

>>72181610
I suppose the question is how the IFF mechanism works. I'm sensing some serious potential for cheesing it.
Shiny armour to mess up targeting lasers, jamming to disrupt any radio control, that sort of thing

>> No.72181681

With 7 different kinds of bullet.

>> No.72181689

>>72181563
>scifi setting
check
>space travel is a reality
check
>inner bulkheads are so fragile that bullets will literally breach the hull and cause decompression
no, this is a modern setting concern for airplanes and now-a-days shuttles

>> No.72181702

>>72181521

>> No.72181716

>>72181689
Actually pistol rounds won't break modern planes pressure from the insides.
FBI did tests in the 70s, 80s and 90s multiple times due to concerns.
A rifle is different but good luck sneaking anything but an obrez onto a plane

>> No.72181734

>>72181521
>Gunpowder guns are used for cultural reasons more than anything else
>Energy weapons are more reliable for unarmored targets, as well as being cheaper to make and use, but still carry the bad rep from days past
>Armor has advanced past the point of small arms fire, all combat is fought with heavy artillery and explosives

>> No.72181769

bullets that travel back in time and shoot your father's balls off, thereby erasing you from the timeline.

>> No.72181779

>>72181769
go back to tumblr

>> No.72181795

>>72181689
>decompression
what a meme. A piece of paper is probably enough to hold 14 psi.

>> No.72181821

>>72181672
Depends if you want it to fail safe or fail dangerously, really.

>> No.72181832

>>72181610
How does the gel magically form a shape charge after impact.
Like not how shaped charges work at all

>> No.72181862

>IFF tied to the firing system prevents unauthorized use and ruins the gun if it's tampered with
>scope linked to helmet HUD, can see through scope to shoot around corners or out of a trench
>onboard targeting computer and robotic tripod for instant turret
>airburst rounds
>scoring system, compete with your comrades for the biggest killstreak, instant feedback on gun handling with tips for improvement
>automated rules of engagement enforcement
>endocrine implant uplink. calms your nerves when it detects you're lining up a hard shot. gives you a dopamine hit for pulling it off.
>gyros compensate for recoil and nudge barrel towards target when it detects you're missing
>active camo, also projects cool skins you buy with your kill points
>taser bayonet
>cigarette lighter

>> No.72181901

>>72181521
Normal weapons put people out of commission, but unless you destroy the brain most injuries can be healed.
Even destroying the brain isn't enough to stop someone from being brought back from a brain scan copy.

Killing weapons need to damage a person's belief system, instead of doing physical damage to them. Memetic weapons, corruptive assaults that paralyse the will, sap memories, destroy motivation, take out allegiances.

Those are the weapons of tomorrow.

>> No.72181902

>>72181862
I like this, actually. How would you do it in a system, though?

>> No.72181905

>>72181521
Ammunition in my last scifi setting was caseless, but there were also some other relatively unique features. Most rounds considered modern are jacketed in a cheap to manufacture high tension ferromagnetic metal-glass instead of copper, polymer, or anything else. The jackets are manufactured in such a way that as a round hits the target the jacket will burst apart violently, this can only happen when the round collides nose-first and only at the velocities the round is traveling after having been fire, this means you won't have ammo blowing apart if you just happen to drop some on the ground. The most common rifle ammo would be betwen 2.5 or 3.5x30, propellants have higher pressures than current day firearms. Most select fire rifles shoot extremely quickly in full-auto, the sound is comparable to a chainsaw, unarmored human sized targets tend to simply fly to pieces when hit by bursts of full auto fire, due to a helical railgun second stage in most weapons rounds often exit the barrel in excess of 4000 ft/s.

Laser weapons also exist but have ammo capacities often at or bellow ten shots in a magazine sized powerpack due to energy density issues, and will quickly overheat and melt their own optics if fired for too long. Backpack nuclear-turboelectric generators exist and can power "siege" lasers capable of cutting through thick walls of essentially any material, however they're very heavy and such weapons require everyone nearby to wear eye protection, light scattering from such large energy weapons can blind unprotected persons and the heat of using them in close quarters can become unbearable without protective gear.

>> No.72181906

Look at what DARPA fantasises about

>> No.72181977

>>72181902
>iff
If you have wristband, gun works, if no wristband, gun no work
>scope
Give a penalty to blind fire, this reduces penalty to blind fire
>instant turret
Create a drone armed with the gun
>airburst rounds
Reduce scatter of grenades
>scoring system
Fluff only
>automated rules of engagement
GM randomly says your gun doesn't work
>endocrine implant uplink
Aim function turns into a free action
>gyro compensator
Recoil compensation
Literally all of these are already in Shadowrun 5e

>> No.72181986

>>72181521
kraut space MAGIC

>> No.72181990

>>72181689
>>72181795
there was a hole in the ISS a couple years ago, they plugged it with epoxy and gauze. you're not at the bottom of the ocean, a bullet-hole in the hull isn't gonna kill anybody, and they already solved this problem with frangible rounds.

>> No.72182000

>>72181716
>>72181795
>>72181990

>> No.72182010

>>72181977
I like it.
Yeah I vaguely remember them. I wanted to see if you had anything weird you wanted to pitch.

>> No.72182058

>>72181628
>>72181647
What's not interesting about this shit?

>> No.72182060

>>72181521
>take normal weapons
>times it by 2

>> No.72182075

>>72182060
I'll take your whole stock

>> No.72182089

>>72182075
Whoops I thought that was the othe rone

>> No.72182108

>>72182010
I'm into more far future stuff like >>72181901
Really, guns aren't interesting by themselves. For most weapons, the idea is just make holes in enemies and make them dead.
Its far more interesting to be able to do more than that. Again, Shadowrun allows this in spades - knockout electric bullets. Knockdown bullets. Anti armour bullets. Shoot someone in the leg to slow them down. Do a trick shot to scare someone.

After all is said and done, though, the only interesting thing guns can progress to is to create more interesting effects than just making the enemy dead, mechanically. Everything else is just a different damage type.

>> No.72182120

>>72182058
You might want to re-read the post responded to by the two posts you responded to.

>> No.72182127

>>72181832
>gel magically form a shape charge after impact.
Memory shape alloys. Or a tiny primary charge that triggers on impact to blow the gel into the appropriate shape.

>> No.72182136

>>72182058
I'm not saying they aren't interesting, I just mean that it's more of cyberpunk

>> No.72182168

>>72182058
They're alright. Mostly amusing because of how they get around California regulations, but not particularly useful beyond being a curiosity.

>> No.72182185

>>72182120
You do realise those guns are responses to gun-control, right?

>>72182136
Is cyberpunk not scifi?

>> No.72182211

>>72182185
What gun control? There are still guns out there so they're clearly not controlled

>> No.72182260

I like the no-bullets route, where the gun doesn't need ammo to fire, but overheats. You could even make it an all-in-one gun where different ammo making it heat up at different rates.

>> No.72182281

>>72182211
That's not how gun control works. If it does in your mind, that makes me very sad: control=/=absolute ban on all for all.

>> No.72182303

>>72182211

>> No.72182327

>>72182260
>attach water jacket to gun

We BRRRRRRRRRRT! now.

>> No.72182344

>>72182281
The absolute ban is what the people pushing for gun control ultimately want.

>> No.72182351

>>72182281
I mean Canada is probably going to full ban guns after their meme shooting where their cops ignored people calling in a dude with a gun

>> No.72182370

>>72182260

>> No.72182409

>>72181521

>> No.72182461

>>72182327
>implying water-cooling is superior to air-cooling
come now.

>> No.72182479

>>72182351
Canada's also a skip, hop, and a jump away from the USSR, so I don't think we're a good metric to compare to.

>> No.72182485

>>72182461
Lets see an air-cooled machine gun fire 12 hours straight.

>> No.72182499

>>72182479
Alaska is closer and I don't think they have similar laws on the books.

>> No.72182503

>>72182370
It's okay, we'll change it in the sequel

>> No.72182536

>>72182479
>Dude uses an illegal gun
>WE NEED MORE GUN CONTROL THAT'LL HELP
kill me

>> No.72182540

>>72182485
Depends on how the air is being cooled. If it's just using regular airflow, it's fucked, no doubt, but air jets with built-in nitrogen coolers? I'll take that over a self-contained water unit any day.

>> No.72182544

>>72182370
anything interesting about the ME gun beside the heating/no ammo ?

>> No.72182564

>>72182503
>within two years all the guns in the galaxy were changed
>even the guns in places that have been in isolation for more than two years, such as people stranded on a planet
>the heat sinks don't even do anything, since the guns don't actually cool down
>you can fire a shot and leave it for the rest of the mission, and in the end it still have the same amount of shots left before you need to eject the sink

Totally a logical change that was not done to make the game more like CoD with reload porn.

>> No.72182591

>>72182536
It doesn't need to make sense, it just need to be vaguely coherent enough for the mass of population to accept it/not care, and let their rights get stripped away, just like our right to free expression.

>> No.72182595

>>72182540
>putting a sleeve around the barrel and filling it with water you top off once in a while is dumb
>system of electric fans and high-pressure liquid gas is way better

wew

>> No.72182625

>>72182591
Hey, if someone can do something I don't like, that's not a right, that's hate.

>> No.72182659

>>72182564
>playing any Mass Effect after the first one
Found your problem.

>> No.72182694

>>72182659
Mah momma didn't raise me to be no stinkin' quitter.

>> No.72182726

>>72181521

You make any weapon interesting, give it a theme and a reputation. The perception of a weapon and what it says about a setting is what makes it interesting and memorable to players.

For example, take the phaser from star trek. It has over twenty settings ranging from flashlight to localized WMD, all of which do their purpose cleanly and efficiently. It is a tool of civilized men, so much so that it appears to be a scanner on first glance. It in and of itself reinforces the themes of Starfleet, which is what makes it memorable to fans.

If you really want your weapon to make an impression on people, you have to craft a good identity for it. It also helps for the weapon to be creatively designed or operate in an interesting way.

>> No.72182737

>>72181521
Voila! The ZF-1. It's light; handle's adjustable for easy carrying; good for righties and lefties; breaks down into four parts; undetectable by X-ray; ideal for quick discreet interventions. A word on firepower: Titanium recharger; 3000-round clip with bursts of 3 to 300. With the replay button, another Zorg invention, it's even easier. One shot... and replay send every following shot to the same location. And to finish the job, all the Zorg oldies but goldies: Rocket launcher... arrow launcher with exploding or poisonous gas heads, very practical... our famous net launcher... the always-efficient flamethrower, my favorite... and for the grand finale, the all-new 'Ice-cube System'.

>> No.72182819

>>72182737
Mah fav'rit

>> No.72182824

>>72182544
basically uses artificial gravity to shave off rice-grain sized fragments from a metal block and fling them at hypersonic speeds. Or like a beam of molten tungsten with one of them, I think.
Also you can just coat said ammo block in various shit to apply special ammo effects.

>> No.72182855

>>72181521
You have them manufactured by E.Y.E, or your setting's equivalent of E.Y.E (alpha legion, assassin's guild, etc...)

>> No.72182876

>>72182824
>solid block of ammo that the gun shapes into projectiles
>manipulated gravity to fling projectiles towards enemy

>> No.72182899

>>72182726
There's an episode of I think DS9 where a character gives a rundown of all the features of a federation phaser rifle and how it operates and then just pulls up a disruptor and the instructions for that are point and shoot

>> No.72182922

>>72182595
>scifi tech
Yes, yes it is.

>> No.72182942

>>72182922
Fans and liquid nitrogen is hardly scifi. If you want scifi, invent a magnetic barrel that doesn't make contact with the projectile and thus doesn't generate heat from friction.

>> No.72182966

>>72182625
Not to go hyper-pol, but people in Canada actually believe they have the right to "feel safe". No joke. My friends have told me this and I've laughed at them, but they were serious and thought it applied to being offended. The absolute state of this country is just sad.

>> No.72182976

>>72182942
and keeps a vaccum maintained by an energy field over the end of the barrel that flicks off at first atom of conductive metal that touches it.

>> No.72182980

>>72182058
The scoped rifle looks like an advanced sex toy.

>> No.72182982

>>72182737
>>72182819
Came for this, was not disappointed.

>> No.72182984

>>72182737
The more widgets you shove into a gun the more problems you'll have on average. This means from the corporate standpoint, as long as you find enough ways to screw people on the warranty, you're super green. I mean what are they gonna do, come down to your office and shoot the place up? They can't! They're gun broke!

>> No.72182992

>>72182737
What's the little red button do?

>> No.72183010

>>72182942
Heat would still be generated by whatever is launching the projectile as well as the friction of the projectile through the air inside the barrel. And in the case of energy shots, the energy itself.

>> No.72183037

>>72181521
Slightly tweaked 'Dune rule'. Hitting a force screen with a beam weapon would cause the power cells of both to explode catastrophically

>> No.72183046

>>72183010
>Heat would still be generated
Two words - Negative Entropy

>> No.72183064

>>72182966
You should act offended that they have knives at home. "Don't they know how many people are killed with knives every day? Especially in countries with restricted firearms laws? I can't believe they don't register knife owners..."

>> No.72183078

>>72181521
They’re imported weapons from the lowest bidder.

>> No.72183106

>>72181570
> Shadowrun in UCA
> Play civilians activists for the rights of non-human meta-humans
> Only the bad guys have guns.
> Police & HTR literally 90 rounds away minimum, 3 seconds round.
> My face when you could run a whole campaign trying to survive the Sons of Saurons shooting up the pacifist convention.


> Arc 1
> Surviving the initial assault
From the scene where PCs were about to give speeches on diversity and the need to discriminate in favor of Trolls based on their low Logic Score in higher education, PCs get an early warning (not surprised) as dangerous gangs or orcs and trolls break through the door and start shooting automatic combat shotguns in the crowd.

PCs must fend for themselves and help as many people hide in fear. 90 - 120 rounds of pure butchery as PCs are (oddly) not that often targeted...

> Arc 2
> Police siege
Hidden within' the conference building, PCs assist police force who make a show of negotiating for the lives of what prisoners the bad guys took. The need to sneak to various areas of the building to give access to Cops and prevent the bad guy from defending.

> Arc 3
> Wtf?
PCs had to overwhelm an armed terrorist by themselves. But as they managed to, they realized that last guy had comms open, and the person demanding a status report on the other side was one of their own wealthy sponsors!!!

>End of campaign 1

>> No.72183117

>>72181521
Ceaseless rounds,10mm assault rifles,Kraut Space Magic perfected by gun crazy freedom hating Earthlings and advanced material sciences allowing for half size rounds with all of the punch. Magazines of hundreds of rounds because there is no fire like suppressive fire.

>> No.72183149

>>72181734
>>Armor has advanced past the point of small arms fire, all combat is fought with heavy artillery and explosives

You're just saying things but then not really considering them... How has it advanced beyond small arms capabilities? Is the armor worn by normal infantry really beyond piercing from guns/energy weapons (also, guns should have an inherent distance advantage on energy, but details)? So do they have energy shields, thick-ass armor, some kind of body-glove made from alien material, powerarmor? If they have something that increases the carrying capacity of the soldier, then so too does the soldier's weapon options increase. If it's just shield/glove/armor, then can the issues be bypassed in hand-to-hand? How has the arms technology fallen behind the armor technology such that there is a disparity that surpasses even World War 1?
Beyond the mechanics of this tech, you also have to think about the tactics and strategy. Sure, you can bomb cities to rubble, burn down jungles, and all that good stuff... but at some point you're going to have to go in with boots on the ground to capture things, and you will never be able to saturate an equivalent state with enough ordinance to crush all resistance. At some point, people are going to get into combat. So what's it like? Are there nests of heavy weapons that mow down infantry? Do soldiers work in pairs or even trios to haul around heavy weapons or do they use vehicles? What about places where vehicles can't fit? Why do people wear the armor at all if it is no good against the only weapons used ("all combat is fought with...")? Why do small arms still exist? With the increase in armor and falling out of small arms in militaries, does the civilian population have access to higher end small arms? There are so many questions just left hanging by making such a giant, sweeping fucking statement.

>> No.72183156

>>72182344
Only in the minds of the crazies who genuinely think I want to really end what amounts to a hyper-expensive hobby where each of your hobby toys costs $500+ dollars per toy.

If getting a gun license was as as difficult as getting a driver’s licenses (in every state in the Union mind you, not just one), then I’d be fine; people are free to blow their cash on whatever they want, $500 dollar toys included.

>> No.72183162

>>72183010
>whatever is launching the projectile

If the gun has infinite ammo, I imagine that means infinite propellant too. So doubt it's stock gunpowder. Especially when the bullet's not sealing the barrel, so most of the energy would get wasted.

>as well as the friction of the projectile through the air inside the barrel.

Yeah, don't think that's gonna produce so much heat it's gonna be a problem. Especially since the barrel could be ventilated as it doesn't have to contain any expanding gasses.

>And in the case of energy shots, the energy itself.

Would an energy shot even need a barrel similar to a regular firearm?

>> No.72183195

>>72183046
The initial point was it would be cool to have a gun that heated up instead of using ammo, and heated up different amounts depending on the type of shot you use. Creating a cooling device that means you no longer have to worry about the key restriction mechanic makes it no longers a cool fun thing.

You now have a fully-automatic Spartan Laser. Good job. You won the game.

>> No.72183217

>>72183195
The more cooling you add the larger and heavier the gun becomes.

>> No.72183318

>>72183064
The regulations are already fucking retarded where I live. If you want a gun, you basically already have to have an intended purpose for it (hunting, target shooting, etc.) and prior, provable experience in firearms handling. This has led to majority of people with no guns and other people with a ton of guns who do a ton of shooting with them. And self-defence is not a thing. Not unless you can prove to the authorities your life is in imminent danger, in which case you might get pepper spray. If some junkie started hacking through my door, my only recourse would be to bend over and take it or take a leap of faith off my balcony.

>> No.72183357

>>72181521
If this SMG is caseless why does it have an opening for a reciprocating bolt to kick out a case?

>> No.72183360

>>72183156
>He thinks gun control will do anything inside of glorious united states of unsecured borders and unsecured/unregistered property and that the majority of gun violence isn't due to the perpetually deteriorating state of mental health in america and drug gangs
dangerously bluepilled, just legalize cocaine and heroin, and then all the mentally ill people just get hooked and OD for their depression instead of shooting stuff up. You could also provide healthcare to everyone, but that probably wouldn't get any votes.

>> No.72183367

>>72183357
So you can clear the barrel in the case of a misfire or unfired round.

>> No.72183418

>>72182992
Tell you what I do like though: A killer. A dyed-in-the-wool killer. Cold-blooded, clean, methodical and thorough. And you sir are a real killer, so I'll tell you about the button: It's a self-destruct device. Press down to arm, release to activate. Burst selector functions as a timer, 3 to 300 seconds. Just press it and set it, otherwise it explodes as soon as you let go of the button. The charge will breach most non-reinforced walls, and clear rooms of up to 15 metres across. Very effective last resort.

>> No.72183431

>>72183418

>> No.72183434

>>72183360
Hey, I’m just picking my battles.
I’m frankly done really trying to make Major positive change and have sort of accepted that I live in a third world nation with a Gucci belt on.

>> No.72183563

>>72183156
You don't need a driver's license to own a car, just to drive one on public roads. If guns were regulated like cars, you would need to pass an exam to get a carry license, and then need a license and registration for the gun or guns you intended to carry in public. Also the types of guns that are legal to carry would be highly regulated. However there would be zero regulations with respect to the kinds of guns you could own and use on private property. So convicted felons would be allowed to own fully automatic grenade launchers as long as they didn't carry them in public. It would however be legal for them to throw one in the back of their pick-up truck to transport such weapons from place to place though. Just like how it's legal to transport non-street legal vehicles in unsecured trailers. I would personally be okay with this, since my take on government is that they can regulate public matter but have no business intruding on private ones.

>> No.72183573

>>72183434
I mean, every nation is a third world nation with a gucci belt on, because we evolved from neanderthals and not capybaras. Anon, you give up much too easily. It's no fun to shitpost at the apathetic, someone has to care. We can't all be posting brainlet wojaks in response to one another.

>> No.72183582

I find guns/weapons in general most interring when they can tell you something about when and where they were made. A last ditch WW2 riffle is going to looks miles different then a gun made only a few years prior or a few years later. for sifi guns think about where and why the gun is being made. Laz guns look like a vaguely gun shaped rectangle because they need to make trillions of them for nose picking conscripts in a never ending state of total war. The guns in mass effect are sleek and look like they take time to put together, while still being functional. These are for well organized security forces and elite teams built for the most part during peace time. If you want your guns to be interesting make them say something about where and when they are built.

>> No.72183602

>>72181570
This honestly. There's no way a sci-fi government would ever allow its citizens to bear arms.

>> No.72183616

>>72181521
L A S E R S
A
S
E
R
S

Directed energy is the future, kinetic energy is just one form of it. If your scifi setting doesn't have cool pew pew then it's useless.

>> No.72183662

>>72183602
Depends how dystopian they are desu. A corrupt government would benefit from ensuring that the street gangs are armed enough to take each other out, and that the poor, mentally ill, or unemployed have an easy way to kill themselves rather than becoming a drain on welfare. Just got to make sure that your underclasses only use their weapons on each other and not their oppressors, but that's easy enough to instill if you've got a good grasp of propaganda.

>> No.72183680

>>72183563
You’re forgetting the fine point, in that it’s also a lengthy process. Time and effort will keep away most of the really crazy ones just like all of the really crazy people often can’t get cars because they’re too insane to really focus long enough to do the necessary testing and work. Plus taxes like you pay taxes on cars in some places and stuff.

I’m fine with people owning guns, it’s in the 2nd Amendment right after all. Besides which, making all guns of a certain type illegal wouldn’t work the same way outlawing alcohol wouldn’t work, because there’s too many of them and it would just make them illegal. Short of literally altering public consciousness about guns that is built up from 300+ years of out personal cultural mythology about how they empower you (even if you’re a poorfag with nothing else of value in your life), I can’t see any realistic way that making laws would help. Besides the argument is a fairly rational one; you need a license for cars because they are expensive and dangerous and could possibly kill someone if use correctly. Guns fit that definition exactly, except killing things is their express design purpose rather then a potential side effect.

I used to not give a shit about the issue one way or another, but then me and my friend basically purchased a gun legally at a legal sporting goods store when one of us was obviously underaged and had no ID whatsoever, and instead of waiting three days it took and hour and a half. And we live in a blue state with pretty rational gun control laws too.

>> No.72183702

>>72183662
Even a corrupt government would still disarm most of the people, the Venezuelan government may be giving weapons to death squads but first they took the weapons from the public so they couldn't fight back.

>> No.72183715

>>72183573
>I mean, every nation is a third world nation with a gucci belt on, because we evolved from neanderthals and not capybaras.
Some less so then others.
>Anon, you give up much too easily.
If optimism will bring back the people I lost because of psychos and idiots who believe conspiracies theories, then sure.
>It's no fun to shitpost at the apathetic, someone has to care.
Not me. Honestly I’m on here to lift pictures and leave; this board is an absolute toilet now and I don’t even care enough to fight for it.
>We can't all be posting brainlet wojaks in response to one another.
And yet we can because it’s happening right now. Don’t confuse “ideally should” with “what is actually happening”.

>> No.72183716

>>72183680
So I can only assume then that you think we should have a license to practice free speech as well.

>> No.72183744

>>72183162
>most of the energy would get wasted
what does that even mean? Energy doesn't just stop existing, it manifests in light, heat, vibrations, etc. until it can slowly be dissipated. Yes it would have infinite propellant, but that propellant would produce heat most likely.
>don't think air friction is going to be a problem
depends on how fast its firing and what it is firing.
>would an energy shot even need a barrel?
not necessarily, but that's besides the point, the energy would almost certainly still cause at least part of the gun to heat up.

>> No.72183769

>>72183702
A low-tech one, certainly. But I'm assuming that a sci-fi government would have at least modern levels of understanding of mass media and propaganda. Why confiscate the guns when you can just brainwash the people with them into doing what you want?

>> No.72183770

>>72183716
You don’t sell speech. Speech develops pretty much no matter what, even if sometimes not very well.
You do sell guns. You aren’t “born” with them any more then you are born knowing what nation you’re a part of or even what state you’re born in. Guns are part of society and you “rights” are determined by the individual social rules of whatever region or nation you belong to and are thus mutable and constructs of human action. Thus any action or inaction involving guns is literally 100% on the people who collectively have the power to do something or nothing about it.

If you think your rights are assured to you by God, then I apologize for insulting your beliefs.

>> No.72183795

>>72183770
>You don’t sell speech.
I see, so it's only the right to say things on camera, or in the newspaper, or on the internet that you should get a license for, since those are all the results of technology and are sold.

>> No.72183796

>>72183715
>I lost because of psychos and idiots who believe conspiracies theories, then sure.
the fuck happened to you to break you so badly dude

>> No.72183814

>>72183769
If you've already got complete control over the media then there's not much point into getting the people to kill each other.

>> No.72183817

>>72183795
You know who’s job it is to convince you of things? Not fucking mine.
>>72183796
You literally do not care.

>> No.72183838

>>72183817
>You know who’s job it is to convince you of things? Not fucking mine.
You got a license for that speech?

>> No.72183873 [DELETED] 

>>72183064
America has equal or higher per-capita knife crime rates as other first-world countries, and then gun crime on top of that.
>>72183318
Guns for self defense are a meme pushed by arms manufacturers. You're infinitely more likely to hurt yourself or innocent bystanders.
>>72183702
A corrupt government will let the people have useless toy weapons, while keeping the good stuff to themselves. Police in America leveled half a city block via airstrike because the niggers were getting too uppity. How do you defend against that with your tacticool AR-15?

TL;DR: Every government has gun control on the weapons that actually matter.

>> No.72183874

>>72183680
So what I'm hearing is that a legal adult with a valid ID and no criminal record was able to pass a background check, which takes a few minutes for the FBI to run, and you see a problem with that because they didn't make him wait 3 days, a measure that even most blue states have done away with because it did nothing?

>> No.72183897

>>72183873
quick rundown on the picture

>> No.72183913

>>72183873
>You're infinitely more likely to hurt yourself or innocent bystanders.
Unless you're going by that one discredited CDC study that only counted cases where the attacker was killed, then no, no actual study backs your claim.

>> No.72183915

>>72183873
>How do you defend against that with your tacticool AR-15?
If Waco and Ruby Ridge are any indication, a few small rifles in the hands of civilians require an entire army to bring down.

>> No.72183921

>>72183838
I’m not interested.
Nothing I say or do will convince you of anything and nothing you say or do will convince me, even in an official debate.
We’re on sub-board a knockoff of a Japanese image board for traditional games; there’s no debate, no rules of engagement, and I get nothing from arguing with you, not even personal satisfaction. And you, no matter how hard you try, can bring back the people I already lost, so therefore you cannot even remotely convince me.

So this is the last (You) you get on this subject. Savor it if it’s what you need, or declare yourself a winner in a contest where you win nothing if that’s what you want or get done off on.

>> No.72183935

>>72183897
Terrorists were holed up in a fortified building, CIA gave the cops a satchel charge to drop on the building via helicopter. Shit caught fire and this was the end result.

>> No.72183937

>>72183921
The authorities have been notified of that unlicensed speech and are on their way, sit tight.

>> No.72183958

>>72183817
>You literally do not care.
sounds like you had some nasty shit
stay strong nigga, don’t let life grind you down

>> No.72183990

>>72182136
cyberpunk is a scifi subgenre you dumb sperg

>> No.72184030

>>72181628
First off, cyberpunk IS sci-fi. Second, while gun control is dystopian, there are plenty of non-cyberpunk settings that would have gun control.

>> No.72184042

>>72181521
tap ever so slightly into biopunk

>> No.72184044

>>72183935
Ooops. Turns out you're right. Deleted my post. Looks like I got bamboozled by literal fake news.

>> No.72184092

>>72183921
That's actually the best part, that talk is functionally useless. Nothing you say will matter, because the tech is advancing regardless and soon gun control is going to be 100% futile as DIY tech gets better and more accessible. DEFCAD is back, but even while it was away lots of projects were continuing on their own. The FGC-9 schematics is now out in the public for anyone to download and anyone with the right printer and materials to make. We went from the Liberator in 2012-2013 as a proof of concept to now a scratchbuilt semi-automatic 9mm carbine that uses no regulated parts. This "war" is already over, and the pro-gun side has won. Everything after that is just a matter of time.

And to bring things back to the OP, that's the big detail that I try to put in my games. Guns and ammunition might not be flashy or advanced, but it's now far, FAR easier for people to obtain and assemble them. It's my approach to tech in general, where the biggest improvements have been to logistics and production rather than the products themselves.

>>72183935
Are you talking about MOVE? Because they weren't terrorists, nor were they implicated in any sort of terrorist attacks on civilians. Pretty much everyone in the Philly area knows what happened was bullshit and it's a huge part of the reason why Frank Rizzo's statue isn't at city hall anymore and was moved to South Philly where he can be with the only people who ever liked him. What happened with MOVE was just as bullshit as what the feds did at Waco and Ruby Ridge, but no one talks about it because it was done to black people in the 70's.

>> No.72184112

>>72182168
borderlands always had the goofiest ass guns. i remember a bandit pistol that had two separate mags angled down from the breech that looked impossible to use without breaking a finger or giving a major burn. and don't forget the jakobs assault rifles with the giant spinning rims. in the third one, i'm playing the smallest character - she has a mech suit, space wizards are retarded, and i'm not playing the tumblr pet character - and i had a launcher that was literally larger than my character.

>> No.72184114

>>72182980
It's just the state telling you to go fuck yourself.

>> No.72184132

>>72184112
Borderlands guns are so bad and I hate them so goddamn much. I have never seen a single good-looking borderlands gun.

>> No.72184145

>>72183037
That's how it worked in the Emperor: Battle for Dune vidya.

>> No.72184160

>>72183716
nice strawman argument. you can't kill someone by talking to them, though in your case, someone might want to kill themselves talking to you.

>> No.72184174

>>72184160
>you can't kill someone by talking to them
You can't kill someone by buying a gun either.

>> No.72184185

>>72184092
Waco was a death cult getting their wish courtesy of their own actions and law enforcement not having a similar death wish.

>> No.72184192

>>72184132
if realism is what you're looking for, i would think that borderlands is the wrong choice. you can jump off the top of a 20 story building without taking damage, and there are space wizards with telekinetic powers.

>> No.72184201

>>72183563
>Grenade Launcher

You do realize its illegal for civilians to own military vehicles except under very specific circumstances and its HIGHLY illegal to own any military vehicle that is still armed, yes?

>> No.72184212

>>72181521
Caseless guns are soulless abominations.

>> No.72184224

>>72183602
>This honestly. There's no way a sci-fi government would ever allow its citizens to bear arms.
Why not? Guns might be a common tool needed for survival. Or, actual day to day policing for the dregs is considered a waste of resources so there is basically no laws for sinless or whoever the niggers happen to be.

>> No.72184234

>>72184201
>You do realize its illegal for civilians to own military vehicles except under very specific circumstances and its HIGHLY illegal to own any military vehicle that is still armed, yes?
You're misinformed.

>> No.72184238

>>72184174
you can't kill someone buying a car, but people still die from crashes. there's reasons why things like seatbelts and airbags were invented, and why you have to drive on designated areas, and not just wherever the fuck you want.
the laws we have dealing with guns are equivalent to strapping a pool noodle to a bare car frame as the only safety measure and calling it a day.
personally, i think there was a point where we could have implemented some sort of common sense gun control, but we cruised past that years ago going light speed. other than a complete cultural shift in how americans perceive guns (which seems unlikely) there seems to be only two options: severely regulating the production and sale of ammunition, or just fucking arm every single person residing in the united states. we've already got more than enough privately owned firearms to accomplish the latter.

>> No.72184253

>>72184201
>You do realize its illegal for civilians to own military vehicles except under very specific circumstances
>mfw a tank requires no paperwork unless the gun is functional
>a functional gun just requires a tax stamp for it and each shell casing it uses
>registering it to drive is a more involved process than getting a tax stamp
>artillery has the same rule as tank guns

>> No.72184265

>>72184224
Modern technology allows governments to exert far more control over their territory than previous civilizations. And control is what it's all about, because without control you can't levy taxes, conscript soldiers, or work with your cronies to develop property. A citizenry that is dependent upon the state for safety gives the state far more control than a citizenry that defends itself.

>> No.72184271

>>72183915
Those are lessons in hostage-taking, not small unit tactics. Doesn't apply if the state stops giving a shit about collateral, which they wouldn't in the kind of SHTF scenario 99% of people envision.

>> No.72184282

>>72184238
>and why you have to drive on designated areas, and not just wherever the fuck you want.
Well yes, they're called trespassing laws. You can drive on your own private property however the hell you want.
>the laws we have dealing with guns are equivalent to strapping a pool noodle to a bare car frame as the only safety measure and calling it a day.
I'd say it's more equivalent to cutting the brakes and then blaming the car for the extra crashes.

>> No.72184318

>>72184265
>Modern technology allows governments to exert far more control over their territory than previous civilizations.
Except that control is illusionary as its bound to the infrastructure and complete private sector support.
>And control is what it's all about, because without control you can't levy taxes, conscript soldiers, or work with your cronies to develop property.
Except when you're confined by that very control. All of those tings require open cooperation.
>A citizenry that is dependent upon the state for safety gives the state far more control than a citizenry that defends itself.
And, also leads to a defunct and pussified state apparatus. Meaning it will have no will to back up its own violence because there's literally no one to draw from capable of it any longer.

>> No.72184345

>>72184318
>Except that control is illusionary as its bound to the infrastructure and complete private sector support.
The infrastructure is mostly owned by the government anyways and the private sector is so tied up with the government that they're almost inseparable. Virtually every law is written with corporate interests in mind.
>Except when you're confined by that very control.
The people are fine with confinement as long as its comfy or they see it as good for them.
>And, also leads to a defunct and pussified state apparatus.
Certainly a major problem until you get robots and drones to do the violence for you.

>> No.72184348

Pistols chambered in rifle caliber rounds become common carry when you're strong enough to wield them as a matter of course.

>> No.72184379

>>72182855
>Anti-Aircraft Revolver

>> No.72184397

>>72184345
>The infrastructure is mostly owned by the government anyways and the private sector is so tied up with the government that they're almost inseparable. Virtually every law is written with corporate interests in mind.
You're missing my point. Bombing a sand nigger in Iraq while you're sitting in your nice comfy green zone or Las Vegas is a hell of lot easier than having your home burned down, no running water, and an unimaginably large enemy surrounding you on all sides.
>The people are fine with confinement as long as its comfy or they see it as good for them.
Except shit breakdown almost immediately in such a scenario. Look at the recent mental retardation by the pozzed out authorities in the United States, "LUL, just stop working bros!!!" You can't have your cake and eat it to. Either your society is open and self supporting or its contracting and knocking on death's door.
>Certainly a major problem until you get robots and drones to do the violence for you.
Except those are incapable of anything remotely close to human combatants. Inferior in every scenario imaginable and incapable of intuitive or advanced thought processes.

>> No.72184446

>>72184397
>Bombing a sand nigger in Iraq while you're sitting in your nice comfy green zone or Las Vegas is a hell of lot easier than having your home burned down, no running water, and an unimaginably large enemy surrounding you on all sides.
Which is exactly why they have so much control. Nobody has the stomach to fight a war against the government, not when it'll result in the loss of their comfortable lifestyle. Afghanistani goat herders already live in a shithole, not much changes by picking up an AK-47 and shooting at convoys, but people in the first world are fat and lazy and much too non-confrontational to sacrifice their comforts for war.
>Except shit breakdown almost immediately in such a scenario. Look at the recent mental retardation by the pozzed out authorities in the United States, "LUL, just stop working bros!!!" You can't have your cake and eat it to. Either your society is open and self supporting or its contracting and knocking on death's door.
If anything I'd say the corona virus only proves my point, the government says "stay indoors and don't work" and everyone follows their orders like good obedient citizens, the small amount of protesters that do show up largely get insulted by everyone else.
>Except those are incapable of anything remotely close to human combatants. Inferior in every scenario imaginable and incapable of intuitive or advanced thought processes.
Well if they don't work out I'm sure we can just import some people from some war-torn 3rd world shithole to do the enforcement for us. We don't need them to be gentle or smart, if you can wave a baton and shoot a gun you're qualified.

>> No.72184451

>I need guns! I cannot rely on the state for safety!

Do you even read what you type

>> No.72184463

>>72184451
I mean, you can't, in fact it's the ideal situation for the state for the people to feel unsafe while also being totally reliant upon the state for safety.

>> No.72184475

>>72182855
the real tragedy of the game is that you can't dual wield HS 010

>> No.72184496

>>72181862
Isn't this just vanquish?

>> No.72184497

>>72184451
>internet tough guys that get off on randomly spouting racial slurs anonymously trying to romanticize their gun fetish

You're expecting a fucking paper, dumbass?

>> No.72184536

>>72184463
you appear to have a very weird idea of what constitutes a "state".

>> No.72184549

>>72181521
Not-Empire is used to quick conflicts that barely need manned space to be won, barely ever goes planetside, just establishes orbital superiority. As such, small arms infantry has become a minor support unit defending extremely precisely guided over-the-horizon, fire-and-forget weapons.

This becomes a problem when they actually come up against a protracted not-Vietnam war, where the goal isn't to take one or two key orbits from some petty corporate fiefdom, but to actually control the economy of one of the most important planets in the area that has gone rogue, i.e. take and hold territory.

The not-Empire deploys with powered exoskeletons, man-portable coilguns and guided gyroget shit, etc. and wins tactically while falling flat on their face strategically. Five men can fight like an army until two get sniped or mined by a guerrilla while they sleep.

Not-Empire decides to stop wasting the equipment, boost the numbers, and get back into small arms infantry. Asteroid mining stations are converted to weapons factories, and that means no organic-derived material or plastics - still heavily used in the high-tech weapons. The weapons are extremely angular and blocky because they're made with tools that weren't meant to be making gun parts.

They're also made for idiots, because the soldiers need rapid training in unfamiliar weapons, and designed by a society that hasn't had to adapt its tactics in a long time. Every part of the gun is labeled with what parts it interlocks with and how to connect/disconnect it. Bright LCD-like ammo displays, red-yellow-green light IFF system. The only "high-tech" part of the gun is the projectile (discarding sabots) and an RFID-like safety to keep it out of guerrillas' hands. Of course for the sake of plot, this malfunctions all the time, and the guerrillas are able to defeat each new version and use captured guns, rinse, repeat.

>> No.72184551

>>72184536
Usually state is used to refer to a country's government.

>> No.72184555

>>72184549
>manned space
manned spacecraft

>> No.72184599

>>72183318
Tell ME about it. I live in a place where crossbows and paintball guns are legally firearms, and there are no Stand Your Ground laws; the judge ruled that if attacked in your house the legal option for you is to RUN AWAY

I can't wait to get out of this shithole

>> No.72184604

>>72184446
>Which is exactly why they have so much control. Nobody has the stomach to fight a war against the government, not when it'll result in the loss of their comfortable lifestyle. Afghanistani goat herders already live in a shithole, not much changes by picking up an AK-47 and shooting at convoys, but people in the first world are fat and lazy and much too non-confrontational to sacrifice their comforts for war.
Except the government can't provide that comfortable lifestyle, and the populations not afraid to execute that war. It's like trying to say a Tiger won't eat someone because its well fed everyday. That's true right up until it isn't. If you're society isn't healthy than it falls and your "control" isn't worth jack shit.
>If anything I'd say the corona virus only proves my point, the government says "stay indoors and don't work" and everyone follows their orders like good obedient citizens, the small amount of protesters that do show up largely get insulted by everyone else.
You're letting media propaganda create a false consensus for you. The protesters ramped up from waving signs around for a few days and are now showing up at Governor's homes armed to the teeth. That escalation took less than forty eight hours. Within that time frame the same governors went from talking about closures lasting until fall to beginning to open up their states on May 1st, expedited. Now, what do you think the next steps would look like?
>Well if they don't work out I'm sure we can just import some people from some war-torn 3rd world shithole to do the enforcement for us. We don't need them to be gentle or smart, if you can wave a baton and shoot a gun you're qualified.
Yep, and there goes your control as the new power kills you to the last and takes over until they collapse from infighting. Possibly an even quicker end for regime than a Communist failure.

>> No.72184677

>>72181521
Unironically, what Borderlands did - specifically having a bunch of different manufacturers with different aesthetics, work ethics and ideas on how a gun should operate.
As an example from the series, Jakobs guns are space cowboy guns, focusing on woodgrain and firing as fast as you can pull the trigger (at least in one iteration, as the companies' focuses shift across the series), whereas Maliwan guns are more standard science fiction-looking affairs that tend to focus on elemental ammo and Torgue guns are big, blocky things that tend to fire explosive rounds and explode like a grenade instead of reloading, teleporting (/making) a fresh gun in your hand when you've thrown the previous one (which sets up an interesting angle for "gun licenses", being literally nonphysical ownership of the concept of a physical gun, which is why a new one is made for you).
I leaned on this heavily when making my homebrew space module a couple of years ago, and came up with companies who, despite focusing on spaceship construction, also made weapons with their own aesthetics:
- Big, blocky, utilitarian - guns that look and feel like Brutalist architecture. Tough, mid-price, easy to maintain, still tend to use ballistic ammo.
- Space Apple, but for guns. Loves making curved white ceramic things, looking like a Portal Gun. Expensive, but gracefully functional.
- Essentially ork guns, held together with tape and hope, somehow very shooty despite not making much sense.
- Space hippy guns. Some are actual organic weapons, grown from cultivated alien plantlife. Remarkably efficient solar cell power.
- Crystal-based laser weapon manufacturer, catering to the upper class.
- Retrofuturists leaning massively on 1960s ideas of what space should look like, ending up with Space Channel 5 aesthetics.
- Alien company. Guns are hard to look at. Mostly unknown.
... and so on.
With this, you can really lean into supercorporate warfare and espionage, too, which is a fun angle for tabletop.

>> No.72184685

>>72182824
>fling them at hypersonic speeds.
Regular guns already do that.

ME guns fire those grain of sand sized pellets nearer to the speed of light. The fluff I believe mentions unprotected targets generally explode when hit with a single round.

>> No.72184711

>>72184092
MOVE were a bunch of wack-jobs that were lead by an unemployed Jamaican or Haitian handyman. MOVE had a long-ass list of complaints from neighbors and multiple run-ins with law enforcement. And they were shitting up the neighborhood and literally living in rat and roach infested filth, harassing the entire neighborhood with loud speakers, and had fortified the row house they were living in with layers of rail-road ties. That said, the Philly P.D. were apparently a special kind of stupid as well on the day of the confrontation. Earlier on the day of the fire, police and SWAT tried breaching in from the basement of one of the row houses next to the MOVE Bunker, but were met with a wall of gunfire from MOVE members armed with semi-automatic rifles, shotguns and pistols. The cops were forced to retreat. Philly P.D then decided to try blowing off one of the upper structures on the top of the MOVE Bunker and have SWAT enter the bunker that way. However, for some idiotic reason, they decided to use Torvex (which is a mining explosive and burns with extremely high temps) as the tool of choice to breach the roof. Needless to say, the results were predictable and they set the roof on fire instead of simply blasting an opening for SWAT to enter. The MOVE members inside doubled down on their stupid levels and were shooting at anyone including fire department members who tried to get close. The Mayor made the call to let it burn and not risk the Fire Fighter's lives. IIRC a young woman and a few children made it out of the MOVE Bunker from a back door. Everyone else inside died. And something like 133 Row Houses burned to the ground before they were able to contain the fire. The whole thing was a cluster fuck, but MOVE wasn't blameless by any stretch of the imagination. They knew they were provoking a fight. That's why MOVE fortified their whole damn place and had a shit-ton of semi-automatic rifles and other fire arms and a butt-load of ammo too.

>> No.72185296

>>72182089
Man I haven't seen this movie since high school.

>> No.72185313

>>72181521
Sword That Inexplicably Can Fight Fairly Against Guns.

>> No.72185445

>>72184599
Bruh. Godspeed to you getting out of California.

>> No.72185477

>>72183814
What if the population is too high ?

>> No.72185484

>>72185477
Overpopulation is a meme. We've got plenty of space and plenty of food for people currently and well into the future. The only way in which additional people would meaningfully make things worse is through climate change and pollution which the governments don't care about anyways.

>> No.72185515

I've never touched a real firearm in my life but I still like to watch the Ian guy on youtube sometimes.

>>72183563
few companies will sell or insure a car to someone without a driver's license. In your scenario I imagine it would be the same with guns. wouldn't mandatory training and exams reduce gun accidents by quite a lot?

>thread is full of misinformation about laws in California
never change /tg/

>> No.72185525

>>72185515
>In your scenario I imagine it would be the same with guns.
Evidently not considering that you don't require a concealed-carry permit to buy a gun in many states and their sellers won't ask you for one.

>> No.72185530

>>72183318
>If some junkie started hacking through my door, my only recourse would be to bend over and take it or take a leap of faith off my balcony.
Just shoot the motherfucker and claim he got shot by an unseen third party.

>> No.72185541

>>72185515
>wouldn't mandatory training and exams reduce gun accidents by quite a lot?
No.

>> No.72185611

>>72185525
I don't think it is the same. You don't need a concealed carry permit to operate a firearm, just like you don't need defensive driving and stunt driving certifications to drive a car like a normal person, just a normal commercial vehicle license if you plan to drive on public roads.

>> No.72185625

>>72185611
Well you do need a concealed carry permit to carry your gun out in public with you, just as you need a license to drive a car on public roads.

>> No.72185645

>>72185625
I guess it depends on the state, whether it allows open carry or not. Personally I'd rather a state allowed open carry but make concealed carry permits difficult to get. If someone wants to be armed while out in public, ok, but they should have to deal with the social consequences too.

>> No.72185652

>>72185645
>he says, posting on an anonymous site where he faces no social consequences for his views and actions

>> No.72185678

>>72183431
Ngyet me ah priest.

>> No.72185712

>>72185645

What exactly are these "social consequences" people always seem to refrain to?

Can I deck a guy, physically punch him, because I take offense that he's armed in public? Can I shoot him? I assume not - so violence isn't a social consequence.

Can I physically bar him from entering a premises where I don't think he belongs while armed? Even if it's a common space, or someone else's property? I assume no, so it's not prohibitive to movement.

Can I call him loud, nasty words? Can I report him to his employer and say that he's disturbing the peace in his free time? Can I film him and follow him around, and fundamentally try to badger him in to desisting? I assume not, that you might suggest that's "harassment" of a sort.

So I can... not be his friend? I can... not speak to him? Unless it's my job to, then I have to acknowledge him I guess or else I'd be "discriminatory"? Those don't seem like particularly persuasive consequences, especially to a man with a gun.

>> No.72185766

>>72184201
Seems like nobody told the folks at https://www.drivetanks.com, because they have fully functional tanks anyone can drive and shoot. They also have artillery pieces, mortars, machineguns, and flamehrowers. There's another place in the US where you can shoot artillery pieces, but I don't remember what's it called so I can't find it right now. They have them all line up on the side of a canyon and you can shoot them into the valley below.

>> No.72185788

>>72183149
Not everything has to be hard scifi, nerd.

>> No.72185812

>>72184238
All those laws only apply on public roads. As long as you do it on your own property, you can legally drive a vehicle made out of a motorboat engine, pvc piping, and plywood, without a license or registration. Hell you could do it while blind fucking drunk.

Also yes, we have enough firearms to arm everyone in the country. It's actually an old common law tradition for it to be required that every free man have a weapon at home, meaning a sword or spear. I think it's time we bring those laws back, except since we're a modern society, it should require every man and woman to have a gun at home.

>> No.72185885

A shotgun whose pellets are connected with monomolecular wire, basically a netgun that cuts its target into pieces

>> No.72186014

>>72182899
Yeah it’s Kira, trying to teach Dukat’s daughter how to energy weapon.
She goes at length about how the Starfleet phaser rifle can do sixty things and it incredibly precise; it’s also more prone to damage, and more fragile.
She then whips out a Cardassian weapon and talks about how ironically enough, the Bajoran resistance liked them becuase they’re space AKs and you just point and kill and it’ll survive a beating.

Weapon of civilisation which can be a tool or a gun, versus weapon of war.

>> No.72186142

>>72181521
Rail accelerated micro-flechettes inside a laser beam.

I like the idea of smart guns that can mod ammunition in the heat of battle based on what an A.I recommends.

Guns that can change form are petty cool. Like an SMG which fires micro-missiles morphing into a Graser carbine.

I'm also a big fan of Knife-Missiles from The Culture series.
A gun which shoots partially-sentient-drones the size of .50 machine gun cartridges that hold a plethora of submunitions. That would be epic.

>> No.72186773

>>72184604
>Within that time frame the same governors went from talking about closures lasting until fall to beginning to open up their states on May 1st, expedited.
The President, his cabinet, his Attorney-General, and literally the entirety of the Fox News list of public personalities have openly stated they want to open the states back up over and over and over again as soon as possible, so a few hundred protesters didn’t really influence anything so much as parrot the existing views of quite a few important people who already want the quarantine to end. Also, if it becomes necessary again due to an infection spike (which already happened in one location) then it’ll get locked down again.
Gun owners in the United States aren’t really soldiers or militia or off-duty weekend warriors, Anon. They’re hobbyists, basically people like us on /tg/ except instead of MtG cards and roleplaying game supplements they spend money on guns. They talk a big game but they’ve never done fuck-all, because the 90’s has shown that if you DO decide to do shit then the government is really great at finding reasons to arrest and/or tragically massacre you.

I mean, those guys up in Oregon called for “true patriots” to send supplies and what they got was dildos and porn.

>> No.72186804

>>72186773
>They’re hobbyists, basically people like us on /tg/ except instead of MtG cards and roleplaying game supplements they spend money on guns.
I guess that makes the militia movement something like LARPers.

>> No.72186817

>>72186804
LARPers with very expensive costumes who talk a lot then always go home and like to make-believe about “the coming war” that never happens, yes.

>> No.72186986

>"futuristic" weapon
>it's a bullpup
Why do people fall for this meme?

>> No.72187089

>>72186986
It’s like the caseless rounds thing; it was a firearms fad when near-future scifi was seriously becoming a major thing and showed up in a lot of art and movies, but it ended up not being as common as people speculated on.
Kinda like how gradually submachineguns and machine pistols got less common as assault carbines filled the same role but with greater power even though once upon a time in the 1980’s SMG’s and machine pistols were hot shit, or how larger caliber handgun rounds kept being developed and in the end people just basically stuck overpressure 9mm ammunition.

>> No.72187112

>>72183582
>built by a bunch of techno-barbarian tribals and nut jobs in a constant state of war

>> No.72187169

>>72184379
just like we like baby !

>> No.72187274

>>72183744
>what does that even mean?
>https://www.twinkl.com/teaching-wiki/wasted-energy
>"Wasted energy is energy that is not usefully transferred or transformed."

>> No.72187394

>>72185515
>wouldn't mandatory training and exams reduce gun accidents by quite a lot?

Well, in the army we had mandatory training with firearms before were even allowed to shoot them. Didn't stop negligent discharges and shit from happening, even to people I knew. And there's always a case once in a while of some private shoving a mortar shell in the wrong way around or firing explosive ordnance at an obstacle in front of them, because they didn't take into account the sights are higher than the muzzle.

>> No.72187472

>>72183770
>You do sell guns.

We also sell people, so I guess there go those rights.

>you “rights” are determined by the individual social rules of whatever region or nation you belong to and are thus mutable and constructs of human action.

Well, enjoy your hate speech laws, friend, because there's no natural, self-evident rights you have if society deems you don't have them.

>> No.72187539

>>72181521
The way I run it is that people are born with firearms attached to their bodies, and new weapons are made through interbreeding. For example, if Mr. Luger and Mrs. Kalashnikov had a baby called Lugishnikov, they'd be born with this fused to them.

>> No.72187542

>>72182564
I think the devs wanted it to be a hybrid system where it had heat managment like the old ME but you could reload for instant heat dispersal but it proved to be too much of a pain and chose a simpler solution for the sake of gameplay.

Though the old system had its problems, like how the hell is a gun supposed to vent hent in hard vacuum or on planets where the air is hotter than the sink is?

>> No.72187592

>>72187542
>the air is hotter than the sink is
You'd probably have a problem melting.
>vacuum
Radiators.

>> No.72187625

>>72187394
>Didn't stop negligent discharges and shit from happening, even to people I knew.
Mandatory driving tests don't stop accidents either, that doesn't mean they don't REDUCE the number of accidents. Do you really think that if you stopped all mandatory tests for driving cars and training, that the number of accidents and lethal accidents on the roads would stay the same?

Similarly, gun safety training will not stop negligent discharges from happening, but they should REDUCE the number of negligent discharges. You can also make the case that if someone fucks up too many times with a gun with negligent discharges, that maybe they shouldn't have a gun if they keep fucking around with it and shooting it into a crowd.

>> No.72187642

>>72187539
>people are born with firearms attached to their bodies,
Talk about a base attack bonus. I mean, this is beyond a class feature -- this is a racial modifier! If these guys multiclass, can they dual wield? I'm glad they're in the ages before cell phones, 'cos if they called their family, I'd get wasted! I mean one of them is bad enough, when they're angry, shit REALLY blows outta proportion! Get a load of these guys -- you'd have to bite the bullet just to say hello! Really goes against the grain, but who am I to argue -- I just wanna shoot the shit, like his gay brother Eddie (he was born with a .22)!

>> No.72187680

>Actually killing people in person
How brusque. I'd digitize my consciousness, copy it, and use it as a sabotage worm. I am the payload, and the effects are whatever I damned well please. Stars Without Number has rules for that sort of thing if I remember correctly.

>> No.72187785

>>72182540
That's not air cooling you double nigger, that's nitrogen cooling

>> No.72187826

>>72187785
78% of air is nitrogen.

>> No.72187866

>>72181832
If that Anon was smarter they'd have compared it to a HESH round. HESH rounds work by smashing a big glob of explosives against an armor plate and detonating it to produce interior spalling. The British are fond of them as tank rounds since they work well against buildings are are sorta adequate against tanks.

>> No.72187926

>>72187625
They don't generally test after age 16 and driver's training has so small an effect that most schools stopped offering it and most insurance companies don't give a discount for it.

>> No.72187943

>>72187680
>actually killing people in person
>clone myself, a person, and go to them to do the dirty work myself
You're too stupid to be a hackerman of that caliber, anon.
A real hackerman would build a robot to hunt down and harvest the living brain of his enemies to make a brain-in-a-jar that he uses to create a virus in the form of a cloned, shackled, and perpetually in pain AI copy he sends to his political, economic, and friendly rivals and occasionally gives access to his friends and families phone lines and internet browsers for brief random viewings you wipe from the AI's memories so each unplanned visit is a brand new hell causing them to randomly spike whatever system they happen to be residing in. Take THAT norton, you fucking hack.

>> No.72187969

>>72187826
Yeah and 78% of all fastfood beef is made of "Other" and that still doesn't change its title.

>> No.72187997

>>72187866
Not so precise vs unarmoured people, though.
Admittedly a bullet sized explosive going off vs skin probably is sufficient to kill anyway.

You're right, though, HESH would be simpler, while retaining the armor defeating capability and friend or foe capacity.

>> No.72188024

>>72187926
>They don't generally test after age 16
What the fuck. Do you just walk into your government offices and just get your license in the US?

>> No.72188037

>>72183715
>If optimism will bring back the people I lost because of psychos and idiots who believe conspiracies theories, then sure.
Man, your friends who told you the news headlines are lying to you aren't conspiracy theorists, they're just way more educated on the subject. You unfriending them is just you hiding away in a bubble.

>> No.72188134

>>72185712
>harassing someones workplace and trying to make them destitute for no reason isn't harassment.
What is this retarded take?

>> No.72188150

>>72188024
Yes. In many states. It's part of why the roads are a nightmare. But no amount of testing solves the IQ problem.

>> No.72188219

>>72183702
>>72183814

Propaganda will work for most cases but I highly doubt you can brainwash everyone.

Consider how many people in modern society are skeptical of verifiably true things - societies always have a ratio of people who will refuse to believe what people in authority tell them. In more populous societies these people can congregate into sizable numbers.

Propaganda also won't completely negate violence and civil unrest, especially if people are hungry and angry.

>> No.72188226

>>72188024
After your first one, yeah, pretty much. There's more paperwork and testing involved if you did something stupid and got your license taken away, but that's about it.

>> No.72188276

>>72187625
>Do you really think that if you stopped all mandatory tests for driving cars and training, that the number of accidents and lethal accidents on the roads would stay the same?

Sometimes I wonder.

It's like in places with more chaotic roads there's sometimes less accidents, because people are more on alert and don't go on autopilot, and driving recklessly is more perilous.

Whereas you get plenty of accidents on very straight orderly roads because people go on autopilot and follow the rules without using their heads, and it just takes one idiot who sees "BIG LIGHT SAYS GREEN!" instead of "is there a fucking vehicle in my way right now" to cause an accident.

I see a lot of people who just assume drivers are competent, which is a comical error.

>> No.72188369

>>72187866
The british are fond of them because they can't into building proper canons that don't suffer routine failure or require constant excessive maintenance. HESH by necessity has to fire at much lower velocities than most other rounds to allow for caking before detonation. This puts less stress on the barrel and firing mechanism which in turn increases their shitty longevity to mildly acceptable levels at the cost of slightly reduced accuracy thanks to higher flight times allowing for more drift due to the coriolis effect and various other wind turbulence with increased drop reducing range.
It's also exceedingly terrible against spaced armor or anything with spall liner.
If it wasn't some shaped charge magic like a real armor piercing round it would do jack all against most wearable armor as you just make it 2 or more layers(that can be thin as hell for even rifle caliber sizes) thick or give it a spall liner which would also be thin as hell for those calibers. A shaped charge would cut through that though at those caliber sizes the actual wound would be small.

>> No.72188398

>>72181521
Make them ridiculously powerful?

>> No.72188430

>>72188398
The gravitational beam emitter has serious power requirements that come with some obvious disadvantages in limited firing.

>> No.72188455

>>72188276
>It's like in places with more chaotic roads there's sometimes less accidents,
Without training and testing, you'd get people thinking chaotic roads aren't perilous, since they haven't crashed before.

The lower signage thing has been demonstrated in some countries, but that's COUPLED with strict tests.

>> No.72188474

Take concept weapons, add integrated holo displays and lights

>> No.72188509

>>72188455
If the people are stupid enough to think the roads aren't dangerous, then no amount of testing will make them think that. And odds are good that the testing won't prevent them from driving either.
There are still huge numbers of license-less people who drive.

>> No.72188510

>>72183602
With 3D printers on every corner, matter replicators in factories, easy access to materials outside of the governments control via asteroid mining and design software you or I can't even imagine the question really is: How the fuck would they stop them?

>> No.72188535

>>72188024
Exactly that.
You need to pass your first drivers test which is a practical. You can fail 3 times before you ever have to pay for it afterwards its cheap as hell but infinite tries. Succeed just once and you now have a license. Any time you need to renew the license you just walk into a DMV, fill out a form, and hand over any requisite info that varies from state to state like title or a passing emissions test or sometimes nothing at all.
You can also drive drink, many many many times, and get caught and theres a solid chance you'll get to keep your license and just have to deal with a whiskey plate or interlock which an idiot can bypass. This can, and routinely does, occur around age 16. If you get caught with your permit with no adult or with too many people in your car or fuck up somehow with your provisional about 99.9% of cops will give you an unrecorded verbal warning because why sack a kid with something like that just don't do it again when they're around haha.
You can smoke and gamble by age 18 as well as join any of the armed forces(17 if your parents consent). The only hiccup we have is no alcohol until age 21.

>> No.72188560

>>72188510
It's dystopian. They'd have the level of personal invasion and control over your life that those like >>72183156 wants.
Think cameras in your eyes, access to the sensors in your home. Complete AI monitoring of your online usage.

It'd be way easier than the 70s era cyberpunk with their poor understanding of machine learning could have imagined.

>> No.72188630

>>72188369
HESH is still given a premium by British armour because it has greater utility against light vehicles and buildings than HEAT.

There was a plan to replace the Challenger 2's rifle'd gun with a Rheinmetall smoothbore to enable the use of HEAT but this was dropped when it became clear we'd be fighting way more COIN ops against men in trucks and mud-brick buildings rather than the Third Shock Army rolling over the East German border in T-80s.

Doctrine doesn't have you using HESH against other tanks, the Challenger 2 also carries APFSDS for that and it works perfectly well against the kind of mid-Cold War tanks most Middle Eastern states use that aren't clad in advanced composites. Worth noting that US Army doctrine also puts APFSDS as a prefered round against enemy armour because of its shorter time to target.

>they can't into building proper canons
>suffer routine failure or require constant excessive maintenance
Uh-huh, right, this is the sole reason behind British armour doctrine for the last thirty years.

>> No.72188646

>>72182058
Bottom one is actually pretty cool. I presume from the lack of buffer that it is a piston AR rather than DI? Either way it looks like it would make a pretty good precision carbine/mini-DMR

>> No.72188674

>>72181521
they shoot scientifically debatable rays of mumbo jumbo with weird effects

>> No.72188692

>>72181521
>How do you make your sci-fi guns interesting?

You make it a bullpup that shoots lasers and folds in on itself and has an ammo system even though it doesn't need one.

>> No.72188730

>>72188535
>>72188150
>>72188226
Wow. No wonder you folks don't think licensing would do anything. If you don't do any test at all of course it's not going to reduce accidents. Fuck. Why should I be surprised? If you make the legislation toothless it's not surprising people will see the measures as useless.

>>72188509
>There are still huge numbers of license-less people who drive.
Here in the UK we have numberplate checks that sees whether you have insurance or not. No insurance? You get pulled over and looked into.
Car sales are traced, and the person who sold you that car gets in trouble as well. There's still people who drive illegally with no licenses and have someone else be insured, but it's harder to do so since you've got to get someone who has passed involved.

You don't need to be perfect with a system, you just need to help it out a lot.

>> No.72188750

>>72188692
Based

>> No.72188771

>>72188455
>you'd get people thinking chaotic roads aren't perilous, since they haven't crashed before.

Those people are fucking idiots and will not learn a damn thing from a test.

They're the same people who swallow tide pods because there's not a "DON'T SWALLOW A FUCKING TIDE POD" on the case.

>> No.72188783

>>72188730
License tests are made at standards for the lowest, dumbest person to pass. That's so they're not exclusionary. That's true even here in the UK.

>> No.72188784

>The Coran Light Automatic Rifle (CLAR, commonly and affectionately referred to as 'Clara' by Security Forces personnel) is bullpup, select fire, gas-operated rifle firing a polymer cased-telescoping 8x48mm cartridge. The long-stroke, constant-recoil operating rod is coupled with a forward recoiling counter-weight significantly reduces recoil, at the expense of added weight and length. The CLAR's polymer receiver and bullpup configuration help keep the rifle in a moderately lightweight and compact configuration, suitable for both long-range foot patrols in the infamous Coran Outback and close-in urban environments, such as the planet's many Mega-Farms.
>The CLAR isn't so unique as its ammunition. The standard ammunition is a triplex cartridge, which fires three, 60-grain projectiles at roughly 3,100 feet per second (940m/s) that disperse at 3.5 MOA from the muzzle. These projectiles offer a hardened steel tip, fragmenting body, and explosive charge that are extremely effective against lightly armored combatants, while offering significantly increased hit percentages at longer engagement ranges, and debilitating effects on targets at close range.
>An alternate loading is also available, consisting of a single 180 grain projectile at similar velocities to the triplex round, for more precise or long-range applications.

>> No.72188833

>>72185712
>Can I call him loud, nasty words? Can I report him to his employer and say that he's disturbing the peace in his free time? Can I film him and follow him around, and fundamentally try to badger him in to desisting? I assume not, that you might suggest that's "harassment" of a sort.
In most places and states the answer is yes. He's also known to be armed with a lethal weapon so any action he partakes against this individual will colored negatively in practically any court. This also effects a bit of the other house of cards that is your argument in that yes a person CAN punch you for it jus like they could punch you for your skin color. The question is the legality following such an action. You'll never be able to spin a punch as a lethal attempt so your ability to retaliate with your gun is null legally speaking and again your actions will be negatively colored so even proper levels of self defense will get you lynched in court(open carry has been legally recognized as an openly antagonistic action plenty of times already) and most states have a duty to retreat law of some kind so even if it was some kind of lethal attempt on your life using your gun or responding in kind is illegal most places outside the interior of your home.
As for debarment most places don't need others stepping in to do this for them as they already have and exercise their legal right to debar you from their establishment for being openly or even covertly armed in the first place and you don't even have the right to complain or challenge that. They don't even need to post that or inform you of this as the burden is on the individual carrying to know ahead of time whether they're even allowed there in the first place.
As for being discriminatory that only really works when it goes against the social favor and leanings of which openly carrying goes directly against and harassing carriers at all is not.

>> No.72188851

>>72188455
>you'd get people thinking chaotic roads aren't perilous, since they haven't crashed before.

This is our 'vehicle fatality rate' statistic.

If someone thinks a passageway crammed with thousand pound slabs of metal going at 40 to 100+ miles an hour isn't perilous just because they haven't collided with one of those devices, you've got someone incapable of reasoning.

>> No.72188869

>>72182485
If you're firing a machine gun for 12 hours straight you're doing something horribly wrong.

>> No.72188886

>>72188869
What if it's 10 machine guns? And WW1? And you're British?

>> No.72188915

>>72188833
At best you could get a court to recognize it and lightly punish the individual but that still puts you out for your end of the legal proceedings for no real effect and at worst nothing happens to them and you're still out for your end and possibly their end of the legal proceedings. If you were rich you could possible leverage the court through appropriate legal weight with the right but expensive lawyers but you've only punished one man and will have to do so again should another challenge you.
So, yes. There would be severe social consequences assuming you live in places where such things aren't already common place and accepted like north country during hunting season or places where on-duty soldier frequent and you happened to be one.

>> No.72189026

>>72188730
>If you don't do any test at all
You do one when you first get your license. After that they assume you know what you're doing unless you prove otherwise. There's not much point in further testing someone after they've demonstrated a basic understanding of how to do things.

>> No.72189028

>>72188833
>>72188915
Your posts are virtually unreadable walls of text.

You could have just ignored the giant and ridiculous strawmanning in the post you're responding too. No one is taking it seriously.

A short way of rebutting would have been: >There are more social consequences than assault, stalking, and harassing unrelated people.
Which completely defeats the entirety of >>72185712

Ignoring the reality, where people will get kicked out of shops at the owners discretion, have the police called on them multiple times, and other people will actively avoid them if they are acting dangerously.

>> No.72189073

>>72189026
Except when the government decides they need more money and makes in mandatory to have you retake the test every few years from your own pocket.

>> No.72189079

>>72185515
>Wouldn't mandatory training and exams reduce gun accidents by quite a lot?

Possibly. The main arguments against that, at least in the United States, are
1) Most gun deaths are suicides (like over 60%), about 30% are homicides, and the remaining 10% are accidents. Compare it to cars, which are responsible for huge amounts of deaths via accidents each year. People need to get licenses and take exams but they're still dumb fucks who do stupid, negligent shit and hurt people. Depending on who you ask, the amount of lives saved won't be worth the added restrictions.
2) Training and exams cost time and money, which precludes poor people (who generally live in worse areas and arguably have a greater 'need' for a firearm for personal defense) from acquiring them easily. There's also the concern that requiring training or exams would be politicized and used to prevent *anyone* from getting a firearm. Imagine if this was the policy in the American South in the 1960s, and the gun licensing board is run by white supremacists. Any white person who shows up passes, anyone else fails their exam for one reason or another due to the bias/political agenda of the person running it. Boom, just like that, defacto gun control/gun bans for people the examiners don't like. This is the concern I think a lot of people have: having some kind of exam sounds like a good idea, but you can also argue that it can be hijacked by someone who disapproves of some or all people from having access to firearms, thus leading to a defacto ban.

I'm not stating this as my opinion, just what I've seen and heard other people around me say on the subject. IMO, it's very, very easy to handle firearms safely. There's people who understand that and people who don't. I don't think making people sit through a mandatory 4 hour class is going to do anything to change the latter, or do anything but waste the time of the former.

>> No.72189089

>>72183106
I like it

>> No.72189120

>>72189073
Why would they make you retake the test when it's cheaper for them to just have you pay your license fee and not hire a team of test proctors?

>> No.72189122

>>72188771
>Those people are fucking idiots and will not learn a damn thing from a test.
Then the test should stop them from fucking passing, then.

>>72188771
Pass rate for UK drivers is 47% for first time drivers and up to 86% within the first 3 attempts. There's still a fair number of people who are filtered out of driving because they are too retarded to know what driving safely is.

>> No.72189158

>>72188630
The sole reason no but a major reason they still rely on older bore technology and can't into cannon innovation even backwards ass russia and north korea have done decades ago.
As a side note, as you mentioned the brits do have apfsds but their accuracy suffers a fair bit as a rifled barrel puts spin on the penetrator as no matter what you do to the sabot to make it try and spin freely the rifling with still impart spin on the penetrator through the sabot causing unnecessary drifting and drag reducing overall energy.
Theres no way to spin mediocrity into success in a scenario where all the numbers are known and can be cross-referenced.

>> No.72189175

>>72189120
Hey, those driving schools want a piece of the pie too. And the government can pretend they're not doing it for just the money. Unlike when they were found out planning to raise tax on food items under the guise of "what are people gonna do, stop eating?"

>> No.72189191

>>72189079
>about 30% are homicides
You should split it up into 20% gang violence and 10% non-gang related homicide.

>> No.72189218

>>72189191
I wasn't so much talking about the nature of American gun *violence* but rather the ratio of gun accidents compared to other causes of gun related death. You're not incorrect, but given the point of my post I figured that was irrelevant.

>> No.72189232

>>72189122
>Then the test should stop them from fucking passing, then.

It's ok, I'll just get a moped, no test needed for that.

>> No.72189261

>>72189175
I could see a guillotine being rolled out in front of the state house of whichever congress decides to try and push that through, followed rather quickly be a recall election.

>> No.72189293

>>72189261
Yeah, well, that's what we get for living in a fucking nanny state where individual responsibility doesn't exist, except when the government actually has to do something (like with corona).

>> No.72189298

>>72189079
>they're still dumb fucks who do stupid, negligent shit and hurt people.
If the number of people doing the tests and still doing stupid, negligent shit, then the tests aren't stringent enough.
>Depending on who you ask, the amount of lives saved won't be worth the added restrictions.
You mean, the corps won't be able to sell as many cars and energy company won't be able to sell as much petrol.

>the gun licensing board is run by white supremacists
I can see that being a problem, but that's something that needs oversight, rather than not having it at all. It can be hijacked, but that means you need to have measures in place that it doesn't get hijacked, rather than having no measures at all.

>There's people who understand that and people who don't.
And the people who don't understand that should frankly be kept track of because they're going to end up shooting something or someone.

Frankly, though, I get it, even if I don't want to get it. There's too much money in selling cars and guns to bring about stricter controls, and where controls have been brought into place, they've been coopted by other groups with big amounts of money to throw around. Which makes the whole system fucked up while groups with money get to call the shots with open greed, as opposed to other countries where there's at least a modicum of hiding one's motivations behind the public good.

>> No.72189304

>>72189218
Nothing wrong with your post. I'm just very biased about it. I really don't like statistics that don't include clarity and would match the official narrative if viewed uncritically.

It's like talking about school shootings where everyone thinks of Columbine, ignoring that 90% of them are off campus, like a drug deal a block away from a college where one person is non-fatally shot. And most of the remaining 10% are in college dorms or accidental discharges.
Mass shootings have the same problem, where it's almost entirely gang violence, or a gun is present without even being fired, and enough people panic and run away and hit their shins or inflict some other self-injury.

>> No.72189319

>>72189232
>It's ok, I'll just get a moped, no test needed for that.
You're still going to kill less people in a moped crash than a car crash.

>> No.72189370

>>72189298
>nobody really wants to own guns or cars, they're just brainwashed by corporations to make them more money

>> No.72189381

>>72189026
It's hard to explain but to be functional in america moreso than most european countries you need a car. Its differences in the distances involved but also how places in general are built in the form of it being common to be able to drive 70+ mph(112ish+ kmh) for 45 minutes one way as an average commute to work anywhere in the country regardless of your social class. The government knows this and has constructed a system that's removed as many obstacles as it reasonably can to anybody getting a license and thus being able to drive. Before you get into arguments over improving public transportation infrastructure the system already in place is much cheaper and requires less oversight.
Having seen cities overseas and seeing plenty of people get blown away by how US cities are built I can see why its shocking because over there you can bike ride to work most places in reasonable times and if you can't or won't your public transport systems are reasonably serviceable where if you tried that with the US public transportation systems its possibly 2 hours for a one-way trip. Some newer and/or more liberally minded cities have better systems in place but they are the vast minority.
Tl;dr America is xboxhueg and we place everything far away from each other because we can so even dumb below minimum wage workers need access to cars.

>> No.72189388

>>72189298
>but that's something that needs oversight,
They would BE the oversight.

>it's all about money
I wish this was more commonly known. Gun and ammo companies have been caught pushing gun legislation before to cause huge spikes in sales. Just like Exxon pushing for carbon taxes to try and crush competitors.

I wish it would be about saving lives instead of money. Then everyone would agree that free ownership of guns is the right thing and there wouldn't be control.

According the U.S. government, guns are used defensively to save lives about 50x more often than to kill people each year. And a pregnant woman alone at home would always want a gun more than to run away.

>> No.72189436

>>72189298
Look pal, if you think it's only the gun lobby that wants loose restrictions so people can buy guns, you're wrong. Is the gun lobby real? Fucking totally. Do gun manufacturers hold sway over American politics? Absolutely. Are gun rights in the US only supported by gun manufacturers? Abso-fuckin'-lutely not.

I don't want to get too deeply into politics but I'll say the way I feel, I'll say that I'm not alone, and I'll leave it at that. Personally, I think gun ownership is a deeply important right for a few reasons. I think the importance of good, upstanding people being able to acquire and use firearms is more important than preventing the risk of simultaneously allowing criminal and incompetent people to acquire and use firearms. I believe society has more to fear from criminals than the incompetent. I believe measures meant to prevent the incompetent from acquiring firearms will do more to prevent competent people from doing so, while doing nothing to stop the criminal, violent people who are going to acquire them anyway.

I think access to firearms is more important than public safety, for the same reason I think right to privacy is more important than public safety, right to due process of law is more important than public safety, freedom of speech is more important than public harmony, freedom of religion is more important than public harmony, etc. I understand completely not everybody's gonna feel that way, and that's fine. We'll have to agree to disagree. The only point I'm trying to make here is it's not *just* some faceless, amoral corporation advocating for a lack of restriction on guns. There's tons of people like me, who get riled up about this stuff and call, write, or email or representatives not to support it.

>> No.72189459

>>72185541

Yes.

>> No.72189477

>>72189261
That's debatable. People have already found out about the millionaires getting on average $1.7 million stimulus checks that won't negatively effect them next tax season from this shit whereas everyone else got $1200 that will be counted against their tax returns next year and no one is raising a voice because the pumpkin man said not to worry ignore shelter in place orders and buy more stuff my muh rights and freedoms.

>> No.72189511

>>72189381
A reasonable point. A shame it takes its toll in accidents and lost lives rather than maintaining infrastructure. Still. Point taken about vehicle testing.

>>72189370
I went to the states not that long ago. Down in Colorado, I saw miles of car dealerships just full of rows and rows and rows of unsold vehicles. And I was frankly amazed at the sight. What sort of corporations just churns out more and more cars when there's no market for it?

Companies that can belch out so much material wouldn't think two seconds about suppressing any changes to help save lives if it sells more cars.

Both owning cars and guns is fine, but for everyone's safety, it's better to actually ensure a minimum competency in using both. Tests just stop corps getting more money, and restricts some folk too dumb to have them. And may be abused to stop others from having them, too. Which is a legittimate point, but propped up by corps mainly not wanting to lose a single sale.

>> No.72189539

>>72189477
There's a bit of a difference between someone else getting more than you and you being inconvenienced by more government bureaucracy with a visible reminder of how badly they're screwing with you to make their friends richer.

>>72189511
>What sort of corporations just churns out more and more cars when there's no market for it?
One where the unions make them build at least a certain number of cars to ensure the workers have jobs. Also, they can sell them at a reduced cost the next year to municipal governments and use that as a tax write-off.

>> No.72189543

>>72189511
I went to the market not that long ago. Down the street, I saw rows of aisles just full of rows and rows and rows of unsold produce. And I was frankly amazed at the sight. What sort of corporations just churns out more and more goods when there's no market for it?

Companies that can belch out so much material wouldn't think two seconds about suppressing any changes to help save lives if it sells more goods.

>> No.72189558

>>72189477
>People have already found out about the millionaires getting on average $1.7 million stimulus checks
The main reason people aren't rolling out the guillotine is because that's such a stretch of the facts that even a sub-100 IQ person could easily determine it was false.

>> No.72189589

>laughing Switzerland

>> No.72189706

>>72189388
>They would BE the oversight
And you need oversight on top of them, checking the more local decisions. If you can't find 5-6 honest folk in the entire nation willing to check on the figures to see if the local teams aren't fucking up, then there's a lot more things to worry about.

>>72189436
>There's tons of people like me, who get riled up about this stuff and call, write, or email or representatives not to support it.
That's fair enough. I can wholly understand those beliefs, especially with the legitimate problems with authority and the already lax laws in place. Unfortunately, I don't think that talking about it would help anyone. This is off topic, anyway.

>>72189543
It's ironic that you think that you're mocking me when that's an entirely accurate risk of food industries lobbying the FDA.

>> No.72189761

>>72189706
>FDA.

I don't live in the states. If you think there aren't rows of car dealerships with rows of cars over here, you're insane. You want dealerships to be empty and once a customer buys a product, they order it from the factory? No, when you go to a store you expect there to be stuff to buy. And the stores will want to keep the shelves stocked. Having tons of "unsold" items available is not the mark of overproduction and corporate greed on display.

>> No.72189788

>>72189706
>If you can't find 5-6 honest folk in the entire nation willing to check on the figures to see if the local teams aren't fucking up, then there's a lot more things to worry about.
I think you need to read the Dictators Handbook. Because the rules to power and the keys needed are applicable to all forms of government, no matter how big or small, and no matter what method of governance.

>> No.72189820

>>72189706
>If you can't find 5-6 honest folk

What makes you think the people in power want honest folk?

>> No.72189835

>>72189820
What makes you think the people not in power are honest folk?

>> No.72189875

>>72189835
People not in power haven't proven they're untrustworthy yet.

>> No.72189884

>>72189835
They volunteered to have power over other people, for one.

>> No.72189899

>>72189884
*haven't volunteered, my B

>> No.72190016

>>72181901
So, every Disney Wars movie and interview beamed into your brain, all at once. Yeah, that'd make some one eat ALL the bullets.

>> No.72190038

>>72189875
>>72189899
Naive. Power is abused even within family units and schools. The only difference is scale.

>> No.72190089

>>72190038
>teenage anarchists didn't like that

>> No.72190099

>>72185515
>wouldn't mandatory training and exams reduce gun accidents by quite a lot?
Yes. Problem is America's military industrial culture precludes them, for a variety of reasons, from mandatory service in the self-defense force where weapons training is most effective.

>> No.72190152

>>72190099
>Yes.
No.
I was military for a decade. It did nothing. In fact, the jobs who were most highly trained with firearms were the most likely to fuck around with them.
The real reason we need mandatory service is because it would stop retards from being afraid of guns.

>> No.72190153

>>72189511
Lives are cheap as is the work most of them do and they replace themselves free of charge. Infrastructure requirements dropping money and then more to maintain it.

>> No.72190261

>>72187542
This is exactly what they were going for. There is a setting you can change in a config file of the PC version of ME2 that turns back on the heatsink functions of guns. The ammo clip system works really well if you play it that way but there would be some idiots that thought it was too complicated and would have bitched so Bioware took the easy way out.

>> No.72190280

>>72190099
>where weapons training is most effective.

Haven't best snipers and soldiers with top marksmanship been one who handled guns in the civilian life?

>> No.72190300

>>72182536
It's also illegal to create a fake police car and wear a fake police uniform but that didn't stop him.

>> No.72190315

>>72189788
>>72189820
>>72189835
Again, if you can't find sufficient people to look into this sort of shit, you have bigger problems and need to overhaul your system.

Look, it's not even difficult. You get oversight on a federal level looking into the shit the state gun review boards and whether or not they are doing a good job.
You get auditors checking into both the oversight committee and the rest of the government oversight committees at the same time.
And importantly, you have people on both sides of the party system on each of these teams.

At least SOME of each team will want to bring the groups down and will do their best to tear down the lower level groups. That means any corp wanting to interfere will need to bribe three separate sets of people, and bribe them enough that overcomes the hate that those folk have for the other side. You need to use the blind hate and party allegiances, not against it. (of course this wouldn't work in America specifically, since one group is rabidly pro gun and the other group is rabidly anti gun, and also pro government control/anti government control)

But all this aside, >>72181570
Is correct. With gun control and gun free zones, suddenly you need firearms that don't look like firearms. Concealed weapons. Disguised weapons. Easily broken down stuff. Strange ammunition.

It gives some more things to worry about over "How much damage does this gun do".

>> No.72190318

>>72184145
That's because that's how it works in the Dune novels.

>> No.72190337

>>72190280
Yes and no. The military prefers to have people who are only kind of familiar with firearms coming in since they have less bad habits to break.

>> No.72190340

>>72190152
>I was military for a decade
How many times have you shot yourself, and how many times have you seen a negligent discharge due to the horsing around, out of curiosity?

>> No.72190362

>>72184030
>gun control is dystopian
americans...

>> No.72190377

>>72185788
The point is that guns always outpace armor just a little bit. A projectile made of X will pierce armor made of X.

>> No.72190399

>>72190315
>it's so easy, you guys, just do it right and you'll never have any problems ever

>> No.72190407

>>72189558
>stretch of the facts
>can readily determine this based on the openly written statements and clauses in the bill and how much is being allocated to that specific group alone out of the total money in place the simple reach an average by dividing by the number it covers and the money in their allotment

>> No.72190428

>>72190315
>Look, it's not even difficult. You get oversight on a federal level looking into the shit the state gun review boards and whether or not they are doing a good job.
>Look, it's not even difficult.
>Mentions Federal overseeing State level, something that is universally difficult, if it even functions at all.
I can think of several examples within the last 5 years where a federal audit team was either turned away, or denied all cooperation and records from the state.
And that's not even counting the tremendous monetary cost, obscene loss of time from bureaucracy, and huge inefficiency of the federal investigations.

You realize the U.S. federal government takes more than 6 months to hire a new person for a position, because there's so many levels of bureaucracy?

It's almost more dystopian than cyberpunk.

>> No.72190443

>>72190362
That's right, anon, just go to sleep and don't notice things.

>> No.72190456

>>72190340
>shot myself
Never.
>negligent discharge
Once with my unit, maybe 10 times on the same bases I was stationed at. Most of the time they were just caught playing and pointing them at each-other while on guard duty, without any actual discharge.

>> No.72190497

>>72190362
>trying to retcon enumerated rights away isn't dystopian

>> No.72190509

>>72190407
>Pure math with no context or understanding of the numbers
Typical, Anon. Please don't be retarded in this gun politics thread. A million dollars isn't even a lot of money, and a small restaurant owner with 50,000$ in his bank account and a restaurant and a business is a "millionaire."
If you're crying about them getting loans from the government to pay their employees and opearting costs, loans that they have to pay back, while the government is forcing them to close down or operate on reduced hours, go cry about your meaningless life instead.

>> No.72190533

>>72190497
what about your right to own slaves? do you live in a dystopinan society now? scratch that, I've been over the pond and you do.

>> No.72190561

>>72190533
What is and isn't a human right is entirely subjective. That being said:
Human beings don't have a right to own other human beings. They *do* have a right to the means to protect themselves from other human beings.

>> No.72190566

>>72190533
There was never a right to own slaves. There's a right to own the results of your labor, sometimes called a right to property. The debate is over people can be property or not.

Europe has much, much more passport-abuse slave labour and human trafficking than the States, so it'd be a pretty good argument to have.

>> No.72190598

>>72190456
Only time I've come close to dangerous handling is when logic and procedure conflicted. It was a exercise where we worked in pairs through a course. At one point we were in a foxhole shooting at targets that would pop up to signify enemy movement. Training was to reload in cover. So, I ran out, ducked down, dropped the empty, insert a fresh one, chambered a round and came back up. Later was told I'm suppose to chamber the round after I'm back up, because of safety reasons.

>> No.72190600

>>72181521

>>72182726
What ^ This Anon said, most folk know what the AK family looks like, even if they can't tell them apart from each other.
Give the weapon a distinct appearance, remember that minimalism is key, don't overdo it with a mass of tacticool giblets, it should be memorable from profile, and that's about all it needs from the art department.
Then, write it a history, and make it commonplace

>> No.72190609

>>72184112
Remember the Tediore guns that don't reload, but instead get tossed like a grenade when they run out of ammo while you print out a new gun? I liked those, a lot.

>> No.72190691

>>72190566
Per capita even the U.K. is land of the slaves compared to the U.S., and it's pretty decent compared to the rest of Europe. The current U.S. Commander In-chief is extremely anti-human trafficking despite the large negative media attention it gets him from the pro-human trafficker party both in the U.S. and abroad.

>> No.72190869

>>72190533
>Equating gun rights to slaves
Absolute chad

>> No.72190916

>>72182000
>gets proven wrong
>acts like a bitch about it
Point and laugh.

>> No.72190933

>>72190869
Well, both are things to own and trade, and the best ones are black, so...

>> No.72191140

>>72181521
regular bullets are no longer lethal due to advanced science, you could blow a hole in someone and nanobots heal it or armor blocks it etc, doesn't matter why but it means your gun needs to do some other weird shit that their defenses can't deal with.

Now it's back to constant innovation, not to make bigger magazines and faster firing rates, it's about coming up with an attack that can't be defended, and a defense that can't be attacked. So you never know what the fuck is going to shoot out of someone's gun.

Sky is the limit, treat it like a super setting except with mad science guns instead of powers. literally anything. some guy has a grow beam that counters hard armor by making flesh expand and get crushed inside your helmet. Have some guy with temporal armor that shifts the user to occupied space if it detects a dangerous collision in a possible future, have it be defeated by a ray gun that speeds up time to kill people with old age, which breaks the armor but doesn't work on anyone with immortality drugs, which don't protect against smartcancer rounds, which are useless against bionics, which get rekt by robot eating dog bullets and etc etc.

If your caveat for changing guns is that "well science would progress past regular bullets" then why stop there? If you can solve "little thing go fast hurt bad" then turn it back into a literal arms race of figuring out how the fuck to actually kill people with your crazy super science, while they are figuring out how to counter with their own super science.

Makes it exciting when a new person shows up because what the fuck is going to come out of their gun? Makes knowledge just as important as tactics and strategy. and I'm not saying you have to go as stupid wacky as I just did with it, but the mentality of not knowing what the enemy has in his pocket is a fun space to play in.

>> No.72192515

>> No.72195866

>>72188560
I mean at that point there's really no advantage to not just replacing your people with robots. Not even cheaper, really. Only reason is if you just wanted to be a dick.

>> No.72196072

>>72183921
damn bro if your potential for thought is so fuckin crystalized that literally nobody is going to change your mind, I would tell you to kill yourself, but your inability to adapt by being so wholly resistant to outside thought will probably end up killing you anyways. Literally same tier as facebook conspiracy theorist and the /pol/ boogeyman.

>> No.72196974

>>72189319
Why don't we just make cars more like mopeds?

>> No.72197260

>>72195866
You don't get the sense of rulership and control if you use robots. That's a basic human motivation.

>> No.72198516

>>72181521
>youwillusewhateverthefuckyouareissued.mp4

>> No.72198551

>>72190691
The median might be more relevant than the average here.

>> No.72199106

>>72190933
>the best guns are black and not nickel coated
nigga the fuck is wrong with you

>> No.72199170

>>72197260
I mean, if they're sentient robots, then sure, I don't see why not. Still probably cheaper than human stock if you're that dystopian. If you're that dystopic then what a human even is is probably ambiguous, so fuck if I know.

>> No.72199371

>>72190609
Oh, I fucking loved those, especially with a Class Mod that let you regen ammo of the same type. Infinite gun bombs forever.

>> No.72199589

>>72181681
remake was dope as fuck

>> No.72199708

>>72181521
Poisoned bullets.

>>
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