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/tg/ - Traditional Games


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[ERROR] No.71387220 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Links:

Trove: https://mega.nz/#F!l6gyGJIY!a9EKxOkVtOV8ZsYQ7XgENQ

Lexicon: SS /file/4wbl1j

Ancalia: The Broken Towers: https://mega.nz/#!UZNnzCSA!IH5GV05_y2kT4Zxq2crY8D43XsP4T4HI24gul4QBnHM

Godbound - The Storms of Yizhoa
SS /file/6nt7ot

>What is Godbound?
A rules-light fantasy power-trip TTRPG about playing demigods, accomplishing epic feats, battling mythological creatures, and reshaping the world in your image.

>Where can I get it?
Look in the trove, or get the free version here :
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/185959/Godbound-A-Game-of-Divine-Heroes-Free-Edition


Hey, I saw that this was getting mentioned in some other threads, so I decided to make a new one just for it!

Thread Questions:
>What advice would you give to someone new at the game, especially regarding character creation?

>What are some of the Godbound that you've made, and how did you decide on that combination of Words?

>Is there any upcoming news about Godbound that you're excited about?

>> No.71387277

Dead gaem lol

>> No.71387447

>>71387220
Always nice to see games other than dnd.
>>71387277
Enjoy your 50th lost mines of phandelver by a gm imitating critical role.

>> No.71387603

One thing that's worth knowing is that, although the game calls a party of PCs a pantheon, the apotheosis rules really do not support polytheism as a group structure; by RAW you *cannot* share worshipers with another godbound, even one ostensibly part of the same religion as you; if a mortal becomes one of your followers, they cannot become a follower of another god without renouncing you, and if they even try to worship multiple deities as a group, their actual worship just gets automatically assigned to one of those deities, without the mortal's knowledge or consent being required. If you want to be an actual pantheon without openly or de facto competing for worshipers with your fellow PCs, you're going to have to homebrew the apotheosis system some.

>> No.71387652

>>71387220
Read the book some time ago and always wanted to play this but could never convince my group or find one.
Anyone have stories/comments of how it plays out in practice?

>> No.71387731

>>71387220
>>71387447
>>71387603
>>71387652
OP here, this got cut from the OP post somehow.

>Have you ever created a Word yourself? If so, please tell us what Word you made an what your process was. What advice would you give give someone else trying to create their own Word?

>> No.71387895

>>71387731
Yeah. I made the Word of Law, because I wanted to play an agressive, sidereal-esque cosmic bureaucrat.

>> No.71388524

>>71387895
Please share the Word here?

>> No.71389314

How about a Discord group if people here want to start a campaign?

>> No.71390015

New to this. Redpill me on it.

>> No.71390526

bump

>> No.71390535

>>71387220
>>71387731
Does anyone have any ideas for making a Gravity Word?

>> No.71390537

>>71388524
Sure.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1liFjH-0VlqxcjEkFgQbxw-gzD_sHfj7hxIaEkVaNbhs/edit?usp=drivesdk

>> No.71393129

Is there a way to tone down the level of action and power of Gifts?
I know that Godbound is great since it can do Exalted 2e better than Exalted itself, but if we want to do Exalted 1e, which was a little less over the top, it’s a bit harder.

>> No.71395677

bump

>> No.71396902

>>71387220
Could the celestial engines be repaired somehow with using shards from them or other engines?

>> No.71399490

>>71390537
Thanks. Any thoughts on a Gravity Word?

>> No.71400935

>>71389314
Is there one already, though?

>> No.71403075

>>71400935
Good question. Anyone?

>> No.71403435

>>71390015
It's like Exalted but not stupid.

>> No.71404942

>>71390015
Ancient wizard-politicians were at war with each other, and broke into heaven to ask God whose ideology is right, but God wasn't there. So they ransack the place and steal the machinery of creation to make their own gods, which begin fighting each other in the streets of heaven. That wrecks most of the remaining divine mechanisms holding up reality, so most of the world crumbles into the void or loses vital parts of physical law, with only a few fragments of any real size remaining. So reality sucks now, vengeful angels have turned a redemption/reincarnation engine into hell, horribly quasi-existent beings are invading from the collapsed parts of reality, mortal nations still clash over the same bullshit, and it's only a matter of time before the sputtering gears that uphold your homelands cease to turn, casting everything you know into the void.

The good news is that those manufactured deities from before have begun to rot, and specific portions of divine power have begun latching onto some people's souls. That'd be the Godbound, the player characters.

>> No.71405010

I have extensive experience with Godbound, having both played a few mini-campaigns of it and having run it.

I have a long, long, very long list of issues with Godbound that have accumulated over the years, but by and large, the root of those issues lies in Godbound being an OSR game with the overall design principles of an OSR game. I really wish that there was some way to excise all of the OSR-ness away from Godbound while keeping the core functions of the various Words and their gifts. I am absolutely not interested in the style of mechanical gameplay that OSR is supposed to put forth, most especially the primitive combat mechanics and the incredibly GM-handwavey mechanics.

I have played and run Godbound with several people who come from a background of D&D 4e, PbtA games, and various non-SRS Japanese tabletop RPGs, and we have generally arrived at the same conclusion. If you like OSR, then you will probably like Godbound. If you dislike OSR but like the idea of a relatively rules-light god game, then you will be fighting against Godbound every step of the way.

It is worth noting that even in dedicated Godbound communities in Discord, there are several rewrite projects. At least three people have gone through most of the core rulebook's Words and gifts to rebalance them, but these rewrites are all based on individual preferences, which means that these homebrew patches are mutually exclusive. Also, none of these even try to touch the OSR bones of Godbound, because they are too heavily-ingrained into the game.

>> No.71405970

>>71404942
>>71387220
>>71387603
So, should you go solo if you can't do that? Should pantheon membership be considered when choosing Words for your Godbound, or should you make them as if they were an individual instead of a member of a group?

>> No.71407969

What if I LIKE OSR?

>> No.71408105

>>71405010
So, in your opinion, what do you propose or think would make Godbound "better" suggesting the OSR limitations were removed.

>> No.71408621

>>71408105

Multiple Discord servers put forth various rules fixes for Godbound.

For a start, there is the Word of Kevin, collected by Nepene:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BJgYgbAPOwYI4Is_rnLh5ByCxkJCyPoNJGrreeUDvQQ/edit?usp=sharing

Perhaps the two biggest overall rule fixes are Darkview's house rules:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DSayfP7dbyOilJqwnUE-zaP0uPKTfjFm/view

And Nepene's own house rules, comprising a much longer document:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/13nooujjQXDHEBfAcJt1xXB-Mmm32MaTZiMMll7EWJwU/edit

However, note that despite Darkview and Nepene coming from the same Discord server, their views on Godbound balance are significantly different, and their house rule sets are mutually exclusive.

There are also many other homebrew fixes and homebrew additions to be found here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/godbound/comments/e9g9q0/a_long_lost_seraphic_vault_of_godbound_homebrew/

However, these are all band-aid fixes that never solve the core issue of Godbound being inextricably tied to OSR design. That cannot be repaired, unfortunately, because OSR is the very root of the system's mechanics. To strip away the OSR-ness would be to completely change the system.

>> No.71411349

>>71408621
Any other thoughts about the system?

>> No.71411760

>>71411349

I have a fair few thoughts on various aspects of the system.

Overall, it is not for me. I have played it multiple times across various PCs, and I GMed it once. It ultimately is not for me, or any of the players I have played alongside, because none of us were particularly keen on OSR-style mechanics to begin with.

If there is anything in particular you would like to know, feel free to ask.

>> No.71411770

>>71411760
What alternative system would you recommend?

>> No.71411889

>>71387277
It's made by one dude, who is doing other games. Beside not everything need option bloat like we got in the '90 and 2000.

>> No.71412224

Same fix as Exalted needs: find you a good system for supers that's well enough balanced, and use the setting material with that system.

>> No.71412518

>>71411770

I do not know. It depends on what exactly you want out of a "(demi)god game," particularly the domain management side and the combat side.

>> No.71412736

>>71405010
That's some good fuckin' pasta.

>> No.71412777

>>71412518
Well what alternative would you personally use?

>> No.71412788

>>71396902
fixing an engine isn't terribly difficult with the right equipment, all you need is to have enough celestial shards to replace however many are missing and either the word of artifice or a word related to the engines purpose.

>> No.71414547

>>71412777

I do not know. It really depends on what I would be looking for in a given campaign. Most of the time, I would just give up and say, "None of the premade systems for (demi)god games are remotely satisfying for me."

I usually wind up running extremely, unrecognizably house-ruled D&D 4e or PbtA for most games anyway.

>> No.71419544

>>71412736
Pasta?

>> No.71421399

>>71393129
You could swap out gifts with Boons from Scion 1e.

I really wouldn't, though. The best part of Godbound is that the players are walking around with a bag full of sledgehammers; when they need a scalpel is when they get creative.

>> No.71421420

>>71405970
Male as an individual. It's fun seeing what people want to be instead of trying to get a spread. Words are broad enough that whatever they do everyone can get involved.

>> No.71421602

>>71421399
>the players are walking around with a bag full of sledgehammers
Could've fooled me.

>> No.71422288

>>71421420
So, what if there's a lot of overlap in a pantheon, then?

>> No.71422731

>>71421420
>male as an individual
As opposed to female as an individual?

>> No.71422745

I'll be running my first Godbound game soon, pretty darn excited. I'm horrifically unoriginal, so I'm gonna pull an Elder Scrolls and have all the PCs begin as captured by a cell of Atheocrats on the Dulimbai-Patrian border. From there, IDEALLY, I'll run Ten Swords and Storms, but I'm prepared for them to swerve anywhere, whether its Patria, Raktia, or if they just decide to go "fuck it" and trash the Atheocracy in Lom.

Since the most LIKELY path is to muck about in Dulimbai and Raktia, I'm focusing on those two first. I have a Dulimbaian and a Raktian in the game, both interested in improving their respective nations.

One concern I have: trying to figure out how to pace a campaign where the PCs try to save all of Arcem. If it might feel too cheap to abstract Dominion/Influence spending on things that the PCs don't have an active interest in resolving on-screen: like purging Ancalia off-screen, for example.

>> No.71422776

>>71405010
Are you going to explain exactly what about the OSR is a dealbreker for you or are you going to continue vagueposting? You could just be plying Noblis, Lords of Gossamer and Shadow ect

>> No.71422909

>>71422776
He dislikes OSR for its reliance on player creativity and the GM okaying their shenanigans. He also dislikes, and actively goes against, the rules presented in the book that tell the GM to go easy on the players.

>> No.71422914

What is the DC for sitting on the THRONE of GOD?

>> No.71422956

>>71408621
Have people tried both darkview and nepene's house rules? How do they play out? I was idly considering using Nepene's, but I wasn't sure.

>> No.71423753

>>71422745

One of the biggest issues with Dominion and Influence is tracking just how many Dominion/Influence-resisters there are in a given area. Consider that "minor spirits, lesser undead, angry priest" are already resistance 1; whereas "skilled mage, strong local ruler, Misbegotten" are resistance 2.

In addition, "If multiple Godbound or entities oppose the work, use the worst penalty, +1 for each additional significant resister."

All of this stacks on top of mundus wards. Thus, if a city has a strong local ruler on top of several angry priests and a mundus ward, changing it up using Influence and Dominion will be heavily unfeasible. Certainly, the party can stroll into a city and start shaking it up, but they would have to do so for every city in a nation if they want to meaningfully influence that nation as a whole using Influence and Dominion.

I am not a fan of the Influence and Dominion rules as they stand and find them too fiddly.

>>71422776
>>71422909

I have no idea how to properly and succinctly explain the OSR game design philosophy. Suffice it to say, it is very different from the sort of game design philosophy that drives games such as Powered by the Apocalypse, D&D 4e, Pathfinder 2e, and Tian Shang (the spiritual successor of Legends of the Wulin), all of which are games whose design philosophies mesh better with my gaming circles and me better than the OSR mindset ever does.

If I had to explain it crudely, I would say that OSR is more about, "If a player wants to do something, they explain it to the GM, and it is up to the GM to make a ruling to figure out how it works," whereas the process for Powered by the Apocalypse, D&D 4e, Pathfinder 2e, and Tian Shang is more akin to "If a player wants to do something, they explain it to the GM, and the GM follows an established and strictly-coded protocol in the ruleset for doing so."

>> No.71423792 [DELETED] 

>>71422956

>He also dislikes, and actively goes against, the rules presented in the book that tell the GM to go easy on the players.

I have no idea what you are referring to in this context.

>>71423753

I tried picking and choosing select portions of Darkview and Nepene's house rules for a game I once ran, though I do not think it made too much of a difference. The Darkview house rules are lighter, whereas the Nepene house rules are far more extensive and cover some Lexicon Words.

>> No.71423839

>>71422956

>He also dislikes, and actively goes against, the rules presented in the book that tell the GM to go easy on the players.

I have no idea what you are referring to in this context.

>>71422956

I tried picking and choosing select portions of Darkview and Nepene's house rules for a game I once ran, though I do not think it made too much of a difference. The Darkview house rules are lighter, whereas the Nepene house rules are far more extensive and cover some Lexicon Words.

>> No.71426874

>>71422731
They meant "make" and you know it.

>> No.71427073

>>71423753
When I think of Godbound rules, I think of it more like Blades in the Dark: "If a player wants to do something, they explain it to the GM, who sets a difficulty and consequences based on the proposed route."

There's a lot of ways to go about getting the same task done in Godbound, based on a character's gifts, but it's different if they are using Passion or Command in terms of the end result.

>> No.71428214

>>71427073

In theory, yes, but part of the OSR-type design comes with a bizarre obsession with hard counters. Generally, in the design principles of Powered by the Apocalypse, Forged in the Dark, D&D 4e, and Tian Shang, hard counters and immunities are relatively rare and relatively unobtrusive.

In Godbound, however, immunities and perfect defenses are so commonplace that they are assumed to be standard. You need to be able to throw up a Nine Iron Walls or something similar if you do not want to be eaten alive by physical attacks, you need to get yourself an intrinsic immunity to mind-affecting effects if you do not want to have your Effort and/or your mind whittled away, and so on.

By extension, if you are a frequent user of mind-affecting effects (e.g. the Passion Word is almost all mind-affecting), and you run into something with an intrinsic immunity to mind-affecting effects, then you are simply out of luck and cannot dispel it.

This extends into combat as well. Combat in Godbound revolves around throwing up perfect defenses, dispelling perfect defenses (e.g. Purity of Brilliant Law), unleashing perfect offenses that cannot miss, and otherwise deploying one hard counter after another. Much like Exalted 2e combat is mote attrition, Godbound combat is Effort attrition. I really, really do not like this design, and it would look completely amiss in Powered by the Apocalypse, Forged in the Dark, D&D 4e, Tian Shang, etc.

>> No.71429035

>>71428214
What you are talking about has nothing to do with OSR design. "In theory, yes, but part of the OSR-type design comes with a bizarre obsession with hard counters" is one of the dumber sentences I've seen. You don't seem to understand what osr is.

>> No.71429342

>>71429035
You mean like how drow were originally conceived to dick over and hard counter PCs in a lot of ways?

>> No.71432957

>>71411760
Any thoughts on chargen or gameplay advice? What about leveraging Godbound powers to build your empire?

>> No.71433659

>>71387277
Here is your (you), now fuck off and speak not a word against Crawford.

>> No.71433748

>>71387220
Everything Crawford makes is great, but Godbound may be the worst of the lot.
It's a clear OSR variant of Exalted, which is commendable - Exalted is great, just weighed down by it's utterly shit ruleset. However, Crawford took the paranoia combat elements and obsessive defensive spam elements and kept them, when they were the worst parts of Exalted.

On top of that, the damage rules which started with SWN heroic mode were never good. I tried them then, I've tried them now, and they're always clunky and not anywhere as elegant as the rest of the system.
I just replaced them with each Godbound/Divine entity taking 1/5th the damage from normies, and dealing 5 times the damage to normies.

>> No.71433811

>>71429342
Nothing about the original Drow involved hard counters to PCs. If you knew shit about the OSR, you'd know that there are actual hard counters in there, but the drow were no such thing.

>> No.71434351

>>71428214
PBTA isn't very good and largely exists solely to let very dull people lacking in creativity replicate the tropes of their favorite TV shows.

In general, I don't particularly care about "hard counters", since they present more interesting dilemmas to circumvent than everything being able to damage or do everything. I don't mind if the book doesn't account for every little scenario, I understand that books have a set amount of wordcount and cannot handle every situation.

>> No.71436206

>>71387220
Redpill me on the Fertility and Medicine domains.

>> No.71437853

>>71429035

Where would you say the issue actually originates from, then?

>>71432957

The biggest thing to watch for is that some Words are worse than others (Fire and Intoxication being the most notable examples, and arguably Wealth as well), whereas some are better than others. Likewise, some gifts loom large and strong, such as Sun's Purity of Brilliant Law.

You will notice that the Darkview and Nepene house rule sets, which, again, are mutually exclusive, go to great lengths to rebalance Words to make them more useful. Perhaps the best way to learn about which Words and gifts are weak and which are strong is to look over their house rule sets and see what they upgrade or downgrade.

If you are looking for straight power boosts at little costs, consider the rules for transhuman PCs in Ancalia: The Broken Towers, and note the sidebar on lesser lineages.

>>71433748

I agree with this overall position. In contrast to >>71434351, I take strong issue with just how much Godbound fixates on being able to throw up hard counters, immunities, perfect defenses, and perfect offenses and being able to dispel them.

I understand that some may be a fan of this style of gameplay, but I am not.

>>71434351

I think that a Powered by the Apocalypse (demi)god game could actually be very good. The engine focuses on genre emulation to the extent that it would be a natural fit for presenting various divine archetypes and letting players play them out. Unfortunately, I have not been able to find any decent PbtA (demi)god games.

>>71436206

Fertility is very middle-of-the-road in terms of balance, and even the Darkview and Nepene house rules do not touch on it too much. The most noteworthy ambiguity is precisely what Birth Blessing can target, and what sort of children it can produce.

If you have a look at the Word of Kevin document posted above and run a Ctrl+F search for "Birth Blessing," you can find some of Kevin Crawford's thoughts on using it to impregnate inanimate objects.

>> No.71437872

>>71436206

Health, like Fertility, is on the more middle-of-the-road side. The Darkview and Nepene house rules likewise barely cover Health.

I would not recommend selecting both Fertility and Health, since there is too much overlap.

>> No.71438019

I might use this system for a Lord of the Mysteries setting. Thanks anon!

>> No.71438887

>>71437872
>I would not recommend selecting both Fertility and Health, since there is too much overlap.
What are some good combos with either, mechanically speaking, then?

>> No.71438930

>>71438887

I do not know. It depends on what you want to do. Generally, "combos" are more concerned with combat builds, whereas for noncombat utility, you want to spread around your choices of Words and gifts to cover as much ground as possible.

In other words, I would choose something that Fertility or Health could not possibly cover, such as Artifice, Command, or Knowledge.

>> No.71438946

>>71438930

In general, Kevin Crawford generally tries to shut down synergies. For example, magical augmentations to your sight (e.g. Sun's Creation's First Light) do not actually extend your ability to shoot at targets using gifts like Bow's None Beyond Reach.

https://www.reddit.com/r/godbound/comments/bn40y2/can_you_use_other_gifts_through_sunlit_sight/en2n56j/?context=3

>> No.71441965

>>71436206
Free features for domains are always fun.

>> No.71445014

>>71438930
Makes sense. Any advice for Artifice, then? Any advice with dealing with mortal foes and/or building an empire? Also, in the perspective of the game, is it better to take control from the current local tyrant, or start conquering bit by bit, building it up from scratch, and why?

>> No.71445545

>>71445014

Artifice is generally acknowledged as one of the strongest and most flexible Words in the entire game. The Darkview house rules, for example, outright say:
>The Artifice Word is potentially the most powerful and flexible Word in the game.
It is really very difficult to go wrong with Artifice. A good start is using Ten Thousand Tools to craft at an incredible rate. Perpetual Perfection can make such crafts immune to decay, and can let you outfit whole armies with magic weapons and armor.

By extension, the Engineering Word is also very strong if it is being used. Brilliant Invention is a stupidly useful meta-gift that can replicate other gifts.

>dealing with mortal foes
Page 145 of Godbound gives an ambiguous set of guidelines for how to handle mortal foes with gifts, and they are not particularly clear on how, say, a mortal's Nine Iron Walls actually works. It is important to have a careful discussion with your GM to figure out how this actually works. This can determine whether or not, for example, a Godbound can use Bolt of Invincible Skill or Unerring Blade to one-shot a Minor Hero; and whether or not two Godbound can do the same to take down a Major Hero.

Also remember that, by default, ranged combat is almost always better than melee combat. The Darkview and Nepene house rules try to address this to a degree.

>building an empire? Also, in the perspective of the game, is it better to take control from the current local tyrant, or start conquering bit by bit, building it up from scratch, and why?
As I imply in >>71423753, if your GM actually follows the rules for Dominion/Influence-resisters and mundus wards, these are the biggest factors you should take into account if trying to use Dominion/Influence to change the world. It does not really matter what methods you use, so long as you can disable or control the mundus wards in your area of choice, and eliminate or otherwise pacify any Dominion/Influence resisters.

>> No.71445964

>>71445545

Another thing to bear in mind is that your starting area, and how feasibly you can move to a different starting area, comprise the single largest factor in determining what sort of problems you can solve.

A campaign that starts in Ancalia's Uncreated zombie apocalypse (which has its own sourcebook, by the way) will be extremely different from one that starts in Dulimbai's Ten Buried Blades/Storms of Yizhao, and one that begins in the modern-day cities of the Bright Republic. Similarly, if the GM is using a homebrew setting, then all bets are off.

>> No.71448335

>>71445545
What's a good third Word, mechanically, for a Fertility and Artifice Godbound?

>> No.71448559

>>71448335

If you want to fight, then pick up something that lets you fight, obviously. Bow is a good choice, and Bolt of Invincible Skill makes cheap and reliable offense from a distance. If you are worried about defense, a lesser lineage using the Ancalia rules can let you pick up Nine Iron Walls.

If you are not interested in fighting, any number of Words might be strong noncombat utility choices. I think that Cities (e.g. Council of One), Command (e.g. A Thousand Loyal Troops), Desire (e.g. Incandescent Need), Earth (e.g. Builder of Mountain Peaks), Entropy (e.g. Best Laid Plans), Faerie Queen (e.g. Sans Merci), Knowledge (e.g. Irresistible Query), Passion (e.g. Banner of Passion), and Sun (e.g. Creation's First Light) are all good choices, but it depends on your preferences.

Some of Kevin Crawford's work is on the much stronger side, too, such as Arch-Psychic:
https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?773601-Sine-Nomine-Godbound&p=21961501#post21961501

While I personally disagree with many of the assessments here, you may care for Nepene's own tier list of Words:
https://www.reddit.com/r/godbound/comments/c9to7r/an_extended_tier_list_for_godbound_words/

>> No.71451100

>>71445545
Nice art.

>> No.71452058

>>71387220
>Godbound - The Storms of Yizhoa
>SS /file/6nt7ot
Link is broken.

>> No.71454301

>>71448559
Is it possible to play a game with no real combat Words?

>> No.71454491

>>71454301

Yes, absolutely, though it depends on a few factors. For one, anyone can simply miracle up combat effects such as Divine Wrath, Corona of Fury, a summon, a zone of danger, an attack negation, an offensive dispel, a defensive dispel, and so on. This will be a drain on Effort, however, and it is not recommended for more than one or two fights per day. If combat in your game is infrequent, you can definitely get away with this.

If you expect more frequent combat in your game, multiple times per day, each Word has combat capacities available to it. At the very least, a purchase of Divine Wrath might help. You might also consider a lesser lineage via the Ancalia rules, picking up a combat gift that way.

Some noncombat gifts can be weaponized. For example, while it is not particularly recommended or even efficient, if need be, A Thousand Loyal Troops can be spammed at effectively zero Effort cost to try to force an enemy to burn Effort or else fall under your control.

Then there is the nuclear option, which is to get other people to do the fighting for you. This one is heavily GM-dependent, because the rules for it are so vague. Specifically, have a look at page 131 for the rules on creating or modifying creatures. Mass-imbuing creatures with an Impossible change can prove incredibly effective if 4 HD Minor Heroes can be made, and if the Influence rules can actually apply to "Powerful creatures can be made as individuals," then the party (or a single character with enough iterations of Influence of the Word) can pool together Influence to create a disposable super-goon on the fly.

>> No.71454516

>>71454491

Additionally, Cinnabar Order archmastery with a Fact is incredibly front-loaded, particularly the Cinnabar Conflagration that can be summoned.

For more general Godbound neophyte advice, I would have a look at Nepene's document on exactly this subject:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1T07aZdApXItP-8ABVgrjnc2awzR8m3nIOGvMNAnkFdU/edit

>> No.71454523

>get really excited about hearing about Godbound
>tried playing Exalted 3e but it was a shit smear
>read the book, fluff is good so far...
>randomised stats
>d20

Yeah...back to Exalted I go.

>> No.71454564

>>71454516

You may also have a look at Nepene's Dominion guide here:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/12E3ua9J4waUtuFxqkJ2LNRvzfQFbRiuJk3D8KzJ4nsM/edit#

And yes, according to Kevin Crawford, creating Minor Heroes seems eminently possible under the creature Dominion rule. This can be crazily overpowered given the right gifts.

https://www.reddit.com/r/godbound/comments/5mj06e/empowering_beings/

>>71454523

I do not like Godbound that much either, as I have covered previously in this thread. I think that its game design architecture is archaic, and that it has many problems. I have played in a few mini-campaigns and GMed one myself, and it simply was not that satisfying. It is simply not the game for me.

But on the bright side, at least there is a default, in-book option for an attribute array rather than randomized attributes.

>> No.71457545

>>71454523
Attributes don't matter.

Your Words and Gifts are the meat of how you are going to meaningfully interact with the world, and lots of words give you automatic 16/18. You can roll like trash and no one will ever know.

>> No.71459586

In addition to Artifice, what are the strongest Words?

>> No.71459753

>>71459586

Again, while I personally disagree with many of the assessments here, you may care for Nepene's own tier list of Words:
https://www.reddit.com/r/godbound/comments/c9to7r/an_extended_tier_list_for_godbound_words/

Have a look at Nepene's beginner's guides, too.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1T07aZdApXItP-8ABVgrjnc2awzR8m3nIOGvMNAnkFdU/edit

https://docs.google.com/document/d/12E3ua9J4waUtuFxqkJ2LNRvzfQFbRiuJk3D8KzJ4nsM/edit#

>> No.71459838

>>71459753

I find some of the examples of Dominion here to be incredibly amusing.

>Mulan, I’ll make a man out of you. An implausible change by General Li Shang, a major hero of the chinese empire, where he converts some peasant boys (and a girl) to be elite soldiers who are masters of rockets, arrow dodging, fighting, and endurance. 2 dominion.

>The Manhattan project. A city sized impossible project which allowed destruction of a city against the resistance of strong local leaders. 16 dominion, one adventure aid. In this case, they needed superlative jewish minds, including einstein, who fled from the holocaust and Germany, along with rebel strikes against the fledgling Germany atomic program.

>Gran Turino. A minor hero wanting to clear his neighborhood of foreign crime befriends the locals and sacrifices himself. Implausible task, no resistance as no strong opposition. 2 dominion.

>Iron man. A minor hero, Tony Stark, builds a superlative suit of armor to let him fight those who would misuse his weapons. 8 dominion minion project.

>Ultron program (age of ultron). An impossible program to provide a legion of robotic suits to help shield the world. Village sized, impossible, 4 dominion and a celestial shard. Required an adventure, defeating an insane AI.

>Wiping out smallpox. A realmwide change to annihilate smallpox from the planet. Plausible project. 16 dominion. Two adventures needed in Ethiopia and Somalia, by the scientist hero Frank Fenner to annihilate the last remnants amidst civil war and famine.

>Brexit. An attempt to remove britain from membership of the EU. Nationwide project, strong local leader resistance. Implausible. 20 dominion needed.

Apparently, for the price of Brexit, they could have built two and a half Iron Man suits instead.

>> No.71461864

>>71459838

Also, apparently, the Gran Torino protagonist played by Clint Eastwood is on the same tier of hero as a suitless Tony Stark.

>> No.71465735

>>71452058
OP here, sorry, I got most of the OP post text from the archives, it must be out of date. Can anyone find a more recent link that works, please?

>> No.71465978

>>71459838
>>71461864
Well what can I say? People just don't want to put enough time and money in power armor and mechs!

>> No.71469171

>>71461864
I wouldn't stack Stark as minor. No matter which continuity, he has saved his Realm from existential threats at least once.

>> No.71469533

>>71459838
>Gran Turino
The MHA guy?

>> No.71470338

>>71469171
Suitless Tony Stark would be a Minor Hero.

>> No.71473673

>>71423753
>If I had to explain it crudely, I would say that OSR is more about, "If a player wants to do something, they explain it to the GM, and it is up to the GM to make a ruling to figure out how it works," whereas the process for Powered by the Apocalypse, D&D 4e, Pathfinder 2e, and Tian Shang is more akin to "If a player wants to do something, they explain it to the GM, and the GM follows an established and strictly-coded protocol in the ruleset for doing so."

"I want the GM to be a machine" basically.

>> No.71475737

>>71473673
It's also not super accurate. I'm a fan of 4e and PbtA, and the latter is much more like the OSR ideal anon is describing. It's all about making big moves as a character, and the MC has some loose categories to slot stuff into for rolls and other mechanical effects. It is very subjective.

Meanwhile, D&D 4e can be run by a GM who actively hates you; so long as he follows the stringent encounter-building rules, you can do a whole campaign of hexcrawl/dungeon delving and not have it be unfair.

>> No.71476211

>>71475737

PbtA games generally have a structure for the GM to operate within, such as a codified list of GM principles and a list of GM moves. There is an actual procedure for the GM to follow, in other words.

>Meanwhile, D&D 4e can be run by a GM who actively hates you; so long as he follows the stringent encounter-building rules, you can do a whole campaign of hexcrawl/dungeon delving and not have it be unfair.
This, on the other hand, is completely untrue even given 100% adherence to 4e's encounter-building rules and using only premade generation 3 monsters.

>> No.71476818

>>71476211
It seems like you're treating the GM as a literal lawyer and insist that everything he says be treated as legal precedent, and not recognizing the reality that he's some dickhead who is making shit up on the fly anyway. I can't really see any reason otherwise why you'd be extremely pissed off at the GM having to shrug and go, "I dunno, I guess if the character is standing in the pool of water, your lightning bolt will hit him even though he's out of range," instead of him having a specific rulebook to pull from that says that.

>> No.71476878

>>71476818
But that's not how electricity and water works.

>> No.71476991

>>71476818

I am generally a greater fan of RPGs that focus on codified mechanical procedures than loosey-goosey handwaving. Godbound falls under the latter category, as far as I am concerned.

>> No.71477042

>>71476818
>the reality that he's some dickhead who is making shit up on the fly anyway
Hmm? No, he isn't. Law is actually a really good analogy, both the law and RPGs benefit from crystal clear guidelines.

>> No.71479959

>>71387220
What are some good Words for if your character wants a harem?

>> No.71480015

>>71479959
Passion, Wealth, Health
>anyone you want is madly in lust with you
>you can keep your harem in style
>never become fatigued or catch an STD

>> No.71480897

>>71387220
Isn't Sorcery as a word a bit overpowered? Or there is something I am not seeing?

>> No.71481213

>>71480897

It depends on whom you ask. Nepene, for example, believes Sorcery to be on the lower end of the power scale:
https://www.reddit.com/r/godbound/comments/c9to7r/an_extended_tier_list_for_godbound_words/

And that is why Nepene gives such heavy upgrades to Sorcery in these two documents:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/13nooujjQXDHEBfAcJt1xXB-Mmm32MaTZiMMll7EWJwU/edit
https://docs.google.com/document/d/12_SLi28r7CCTl-LkTmCfnimqk4iw9euFn2Z6rnJRIOU/edit?usp=sharing

Darkview, likewise, gives Sorcery a slight few buffs:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DSayfP7dbyOilJqwnUE-zaP0uPKTfjFm/view

As for me, I think that Sorcery is a purely middling Word, and that Adept of the Way is one of the weakest greater gifts in the game. However, all of this changes with Adept of the Throne, which opens up ridiculously strong invocations, such as Auspice of the Divine King, Legion of Marching Clay (use the Lexicon of the Throne rules for expending Effort/scene while off-screen to create a huge army of constructs during your downtime), and Summon the Black Iron Servitor (cherry-pick its gifts intelligently).

I still have absolutely no idea what this passage actually means under the context of the Dominion subsystem, though:
>Theurgy is also no substitute for Influence or gifts in working large, long-term alterations upon a place or situation. The marvels created by theurgy may be long-lasting, but they are rarely so perfectly suited to a theurge’s needs that they obviate other forms of effort to attain their ends. More work must be done if its changes are to be stable.

It seems to me that spamming Effort/scene off-screen on Legion of Marching Clay would create a gargantuan army of constructs, which would certainly count as "large, long-term alterations upon a place or situation."

>> No.71481245

>>71454523
Honestly, d20 is still better than the 3 times winner of the award "Good setting terrible mechanics". Give Godbound a try, it's honestly still a step up from Ex 3e (and 2e, for those crazy people still playing that).

>> No.71481987

>>71481213
>>71476211
>>71459838
>>71387220
I saw an archived thread that asked if anyone had created a Gravity Word, has anyone done so or have any ideas for doing so?

>> No.71483523

>>71477042
Even if you take that approach, AW has nothing like crystal clear guidelines. There's broad principles for guidance, and the GM's main action is to make moves "as hard as [they] want." The whole PbtA engine is based on wiggle room and interpretation.

>> No.71483945

>>71481245
Godbound mechanics are bad and the setting is worse than exalted 2e, which is an amazing feat by itself

>> No.71484582

>>71481245
Wouldnt Mutants and masterminds work as well?

>> No.71484873

>>71484582
Why that game?

>> No.71485715

>>71484582
Yes and no.
You can easily build OP demigod-tier heroes in M&M, but you can easily do some game-breaking stuff that needs other game-breaking stuff to counter. Which imo is a bit too unstable for a game for demigods, but perfect for a game for high-leveled supers.

But even if you believe otherwise it is more work to prepare and play than godbound, which is quite simple to run. Still it can work yeah, heck, you can even play D&D with M&M rules the system is rather universal.

>> No.71485812

>>71481213
Maybe if means that if there are conflicting powers, gifts auto-wins against Theurgy. Like someone with Earth can melt your clay army, or Command can take them from you.
>they are rarely so perfectly suited to a theurge’s needs that they obviate other forms of effort to attain their ends
This pobably means that miracles of words are more flexible than specific Theurgy spells.

>> No.71486188

>>71485812

No, that is covered by an entirely separate paragraph:

>Theurgy is also no substitute for Influence or gifts in working large, long-term alterations upon a place or situation. The marvels created by theurgy may be long-lasting, but they are rarely so perfectly suited to a theurge’s needs that they obviate other forms of effort to attain their ends. More work must be done if its changes are to be stable.

>Theurgy and Gifts
>While theurgy is far more powerful than low magic, it is still no match for divine gifts. Theurgy may be dispelled as mortal magic is dispelled, and its powers cannot banish the workings of gifts unless specified otherwise by the invocation. Some invocations truly can be used to overpower gifts, but these tend to be very specific arts or very focused in their application. Unless otherwise specified, theurgy is treated as mortal magic for all interactions with gifts.

The former paragraph, then, has to mean something else. What it means, though, is vague, particularly since the Dominion rules do not touch upon theurgy that much.

Additionally, even the latter paragraph is ambiguous when we look at the rules for dispelling mortal magic.

>A miracle can dispel mortal magic or undo mortal curses if a plausible explanation can be made as to how the Word would apply. Unlike with hostile gifts, this dispelling is permanent.

How does this work, exactly? Suppose a theurge of the Throne has used the Lexicon of the Throne's rules for spending Effort/scene off-screen to spam Legions of Marching Clay ad nauseam. They send off a single one of their constructs to scout. If someone was to dispel that construct, would only that single construct deanimate? Or would that construct and all other constructs animated by a single discrete casting of Legions of Marching Clay deanimate?

In another scenario, if someone was to face a Mob of constructs created by separate castings of Legions of Marching Clay, could the person dispel the entire Mob at once?

>> No.71486287

>>71483523

The way I see it, PbtA games at least have the courtesy to be consistently narratively-oriented, rather than present what is, to me, an unsatisfying mix of hard mechanics and loosey-goosey wiggle room. The degree of mechanical ambiguities in Godbound is something I personally find infuriating.

For example, here is something that is bound to come up once lesser Strifes come into play. Considering that a Godbound can start off as a master of a lesser Strife with a single Fact, and that even an adventure like Ten Buried Blades makes use of enemies with lesser Strifes, this does not seem like an uncommon scenario.

>A miracle can dispel mortal magic or undo mortal curses if a plausible explanation can be made as to how the Word would apply. Unlike with hostile gifts, this dispelling is permanent.

vs.

>True Strife techniques count as divine gifts for purposes of overcoming mortal magics and resisting attempts at dispelling them. Lesser Strifes are less potent, and are treated as low magic techniques when that concern is relevant.

How exactly does this work? The above passage would stipulate that a dispellation of low magic is permanent, but that lesser Strifes are treated as low magic for dispellation.

What happens if someone dispels an enemy using a lesser Strife? Does it cover only a single discrete effect of the lesser Strife? Does the entire lesser Strife vanish permanently?

Even then, if it covers only a single discrete effect of the lesser Strife, this is fuzzy territory. At least with low magic, it is reasonably easy to tell what counts as a single discrete spell, but a lesser Strife is comprised of several individual passive effects. How would dispelling the lesser Strife of the Bitter Rival even work, for example?

>> No.71487210

>>71454523

One field where I think Exalted 3e has more of an edge is the combat system. While it is absolutely far from perfect, there is at least some measure of tactics grounded in the actual mechanics and the selection of character abilities on the sheet. Combatants seldom have to make a choice between trying to efficiently and optimally defeat one another, and "looking cool."

Godbound combat, when you get down to individual combatants trying to efficiently and optimally defeat one another without trying to "look cool," boils down to little more than Effort attrition. The tactics are not very refined at all, and there is little depth to the fighting, in terms of what can be derived from the actual mechanics on character sheets and statistics blocks.

My point of reference here is chiefly RPGs like D&D 4e, Pathfinder 2e, Legends of the Wulin, Tian Shang, and even a couple of non-SRS Japanese tabletop RPGs. All of these games have a reasonable degree of tactical depth that arises from the mechanical options that appear in character sheets and statistics blocks, unlike Godbound.

>> No.71489852

>>71485715
Any tips for an M&M newfag, please?

>> No.71490730

>>71486188

The Lexicon of the Throne's rules for spending Effort/scene off-screen can get very wacky, I should add. It is simple enough to see how this can get silly with Legions of Marching Clay, but envision what happens when someone has the Knowledge greater gift Disclose the Flaw:

>Disclose the Flaw, Instant
>Commit Effort for the scene and choose a target, either creature or institution. Know its current weaknesses and most vulnerable elements at that time, including any hidden means by which it might be killed or destroyed. Creatures reveal their hit dice and Effort totals.

A day of downtime, and the Knowledge-user has a list of every single weakness of all of the people.

>Facts or events perpetrated by someone with the Word of Deception allow their enactor a Spirit saving throw to conceal events from the Word of Knowledge.

Even this is ultimately no defense. The Knowledge-spammer could keep hammering away with Disclose the Flaw again, and again, and again.

>> No.71490850

>>71490730

This, by the way, is why the various intrinsic benefits and lesser gifts that remove the character's need for food and sleep are so effective. (I am a fan of the Freedom lesser gift Shed the Need, because it can immediately remove people's mental illnesses on an at-will basis.) When a character no longer needs to eat or sleep, they have significantly more time with which to spam Effort/scene effects like Disclose the Flaw and Legions of Marching Clay.

>> No.71493663

>>71433659
>Crawford
Who?

>> No.71496367

>>71490850
This is why a GM matters, anon. You hate the idea of someone as an arbitrator between hard rules, broad principles, and player wishes, but they are there for precisely this.

>> No.71496885

>>71493663
Kevin Crawford, the author of Godbound.

>> No.71496945

>>71496885
Is he still working on it?

>> No.71499486

This thread reeks of FOE.

>> No.71499497

>>71499486
Who?

>> No.71499677

>>71499497
GYG

>> No.71499689

>>71499677
Who?

>> No.71501888

>>71496367
He wants the GM constrained by the rules as much as possible so they're less a Game MASTER and more a Game MENIAL.

To each their own but I'm certain the reason he hasn't darkened the fandom of Hero System or GURPS yet despite their tactical complexity is those systems requires the GM not to be a rules-bound idiot.

>> No.71502136

>>71499497
>>71499689
Hyper purist who hate anything that is loosely OSR-related but not to their standards. Which is to say everything OSR.

>> No.71502347

>>71501888
Hero and GURPS have nothing on D&D 4e.

>> No.71502859

What is the most optimal way to build your godbound? Because I feel like grabbing additional words and effort of the word goes a long way, but it's about being able to do things consistently without spending effort that much, right?

>> No.71503020

>>71501888

It is clear that you and I simply have different preferences and backgrounds in our favored RPG systems. The tactics associated with Hero and GURPS are not those I am interested in.

>>71502859

It really, really depends on:
1. What you are trying to do with your character.
2. Whether or not you want to fight, and if so, how you want to fight and what you want to fight.
3. What the starting location of the game is, or at least, the starting location of any real adventuring in the game.
4. How generous you expect your GM to be with various ambiguous rules, such as off-screen usage of Effort, and the Dominion expenditures, particular for the purpose of creating or imbuing minions to send into battle.

Effort of the Word is indeed a very good gift, because Effort is everything, but buying extra Words is below-average, given the hefty price of 3 gift points and the inherent delay required to make the purchase.

You will want to pay careful attention to Facts, an oft-overlooked series of power boosts. They can purchase mastery in a lesser Strife (after the Lexicon downgrades to Godbound usage of lesser Strifes, the lesser Strife of the Torment Defied is still very good), a low magic archmastery (Cinnabar Order archmastery is incredibly front-loaded, particularly the Cinnabar Conflagration summon), or an Ancalian knighthood with a long series of benefits attached.

Another easy power boost is the rules for transhuman lineages in Ancalia: The Broken Towers. The five families are one thing, but the sidebar for lesser lineages is great for picking up an off-Word lesser gift at no extra surcharge.

If your GM allows themed Godbound, some of them can be quite strong. Exemplars (i.e. fake Solars), in particular, are fantastic. The Rebel intrinsic benefit is one of the best in the game, due to the immunity it can confer you and your followers. It can even extend towards fellow PCs: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/sine-nomine-godbound.773601/post-22635226

>> No.71503087

>>71502859

Again, I would recommend having a look at Nepene's guides on this subject.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1T07aZdApXItP-8ABVgrjnc2awzR8m3nIOGvMNAnkFdU/edit

https://docs.google.com/document/d/12E3ua9J4waUtuFxqkJ2LNRvzfQFbRiuJk3D8KzJ4nsM/edit#

And while I personally disagree with many of the assessments here, you may care for Nepene's own tier list of Words:
https://www.reddit.com/r/godbound/comments/c9to7r/an_extended_tier_list_for_godbound_words/

Godbound is ultimately a very loosey-goosey game that is incredibly GM-dependent. I stay in touch with a Godbound GM who has collected several stories about parties defeating Made Gods, including some of their own parties, and every single one of the "clever builds/tactics" involved in each story is heavily dependent on precise GM rulings for a great number of mechanical edge cases.

>> No.71503222

>>71503020
So words and gifts aren't as important at the start as facts are. It'd be important to try to figure out how to do that. I was asking in the context of combat since it seem most words can contribute to combat, but it doesn't take that much investment to be good at it? It takes a lot to fight above your weight class though.

>> No.71503379

>>71422914
Doesn't exist anymore. Was looted and stripped for parts.

>> No.71503428

>>71503222

No, no, no. Words and gifts are still the single most important mechanical facets of the character, and can completely decide a character's most salient capacities. However, you should not overlook Facts, either.

The absolute most effective way to fight in Godbound is to get other people to fight on your behalf, ideally using the Dominion rules for creating or imbuing creatures. The GM I mentioned has observed that a fair few of the "Our party defeated a Made God" stories involved the party sending in an army of minions to do the brunt of the work.

The same GM allowed my own 3rd-level Godbound, in one mini-campaign, to use a mere 8-Dominion change (2 for 100,000 targets, multiplier of 4 for Impossible) to imbue 100,000 mortals as Minor Heroes with None Beyond Reach. Upgraded with Perpetual Perfection and Invincible Iron General, they were able to defeat some rather ridiculous opposition.

The same GM reports an entirely separate 3rd-level party who came up with the exact same idea of using the Dominion rules to imbue a ridiculous amount of mortals as Minor Heroes, upgrading them with Perpetual Perfection and Invincible Iron General, and using them to slaughter vast swathes of enemies. Apparently, they later defeated a Made God this way.

If you want to fight personally, however, it depends on how you want to fight, what you want to fight, and how *frequently* you want to fight.

A Godbound built for fighting major opponents will be very different from a Godbound built for combating Mobs and lesser foes; Nepene's guide covers this quite well. In a similar vein, a Godbound built for several fights in one day will look very different from a Godbound built for one big fight in which the Godbound goes all-out.

>> No.71506384

>>71503379
>Was looted and stripped for parts.
Why?

>> No.71508681

Where can I go to question about specific gifts? Because i'm trying to figure out if commit for the scene means that you can use the effects repeatedly or if it's something that is one and done.

>> No.71508747

>>71508681

It depends on the specific gift and its wording. Generally, however, page 25 covers you here:
>Gifts last as long as Effort remains committed unless specified otherwise in the text. Thus, if a blessing says that Effort must be committed for a scene, its aid lasts a full scene unless the gift says differently.

>> No.71509980

>it's been almost half a decade
>2hu still posts here with his stupid gimmick
>autism everywhere, no actual conversation
>"hurrburr game bad because i cant read"

>> No.71510044

>>71509980
You got any stunning insights to share then?

>> No.71510155

>>71510044
Just the usual.
You guys aren't the audience for this game.

>> No.71510206

>>71510155
Sorry for not being able to appreciate the High Art of Lord Kevin Crawford.

>> No.71510262

>>71510206
You better be nigger

>> No.71511926

>>71508747
Who's this?

>> No.71512121

>>71508747
So Nine's gift from the Sword word only works for once for the entire fight or the whole round?

>> No.71512220

>>71509980
Anon, Colette has been here for over a decade.

>> No.71512331

>>71503428

>multiplier of 4 for Impossible
And yes, I did pay a celestial shard for this.

The premade adventures Ten Buried Blades and The Storms of Yizhao, for example, are rather generous with celestial shards.

>>71512121

Not quite. Have a look at the rest of page 25.

>Gifts often require that Effort be Committed to them in order to use them. Usually, Effort is Committed only as long as the power is in use. A gift that allows flight, for example, might require the user to Commit Effort. They would have to spend a point of it from their pool in order to fly, but could reclaim the Effort as soon as they no longer needed the ability. A lingering curse on a foe might also require Effort, with the blight lasting as long as the hero leaves the Effort committed. Reclaiming Effort is instantaneous and may be done at any time.

>Some gifts require that Effort be committed for longer periods, such as for a scene, or even for a full day. A scene simply means for however long the current event is happening. A fight is usually one scene, as is an infiltration of a house, a debate at court, the pursuit of a fleeing enemy, or other such action. Most scenes last no more than fifteen minutes, though longer ones exist at the GM’s discretion. At the scene’s end all Effort committed for that scene is returned. Effort committed for a scene or for a day cannot be reclaimed early.

>Effort committed for a full day returns each morning, with or without rest. This lengthy commitment is usually only for the most impressive gifts or the wielding of unrefined miracles. Most of these powers create a single sudden marvel that might last only a moment, but the Effort remains committed until the hero can rest for an evening.

This should be self-explanatory.

As an aside, since ranged combat is usually better than melee combat here, it helps to pick up Nine Iron Walls without actually selecting the Sword Word. This can be done through, for example, the Ancalian lesser lineage rules.

>> No.71512355

>>71512331

To illustrate how generous Ten Buried Blades is with celestial shards, one is worn as a pendant by a very weak, noncombatant bandit captain.

>> No.71514570

>take Dragon Word with the gift that gives you a flying speed
>use a Fact to master the Lesser Strife of the Falling Sky
>you've now got a breath weapon that deals 1d10 damage with a 50 foot range, and the ability to autohit someone by dropping out of the sky onto them (and enough flying speed to do this every turn)
>be a badass dragon flying around breathing lightning onto your enemies, with two Words and two Facts to spend on other things
What Words and Facts would be strong with this setup? I was thinking of going with the Lesser Strife of the Empty Mouth School, and maybe the Bow word for breath-weapon optimization - Bow plus Empty Mouth would give you infinite acid breath, right? Maybe spend the third Fact on getting the Seers of the Bright Eye archmage magic, because more information is always useful?

I was also sort of thinking of getting Underworld for a "mother of monsters" sort of dragon.

>> No.71516035

So I decided to check this game out because of this thread and I've got to ask: why the fuck would anyone design their damage system like pic related?

>> No.71517223

Legacy design from a previous product which was designed to convert dnd modules to be done with a single hero.

Basically its to preserve convertibility with all the osr stuff out there.

>> No.71517758

>>71516035
>>71517223
But what if I have zero investment in OSR?

>> No.71518021

>>71514570

If you want to personally do some fighting yourself, as opposed to leaving it to an army of superpowered minions, then it is best to pick a general combat method against worthy foes and optimize that, then pick a general combat method against lesser foes and Mobs and optimize that. You do not gain much from spreading yourself too thinly between combat methods, especially investing in both melee and ranged combat: the returns are starkly diminishing, it cuts into gift points you could be spending on noncombat utility, and it is generally possible to achieve combat flexibility in a pinch using miracles anyway.

I would choose between melee combat or ranged combat and stick to that. Usually, ranged combat is vastly superior due to all of its inherent benefits, but there are some narrow builds and situations wherein melee combat has an edge.

You need to pay a gift point to mix together Strifes. There are some builds wherein this is worthwhile, but I do not think that is the case for you:
>Strifes naturally conflict in their techniques. Heroes who know more than one Strife must choose one to use at the start of a combat scene and cannot use the techniques of any other, including Constant techniques. Masters who spend an extra gift point may integrate all of their current and future completely-mastered styles, allowing them to use all such freely at the same time, with the least restrictive armor and weapon choices applicable to all. This integration applies only to Strifes that have been completely mastered; partially-learned True Strifes aren't familiar enough to integrate with other techniques.

If you want to rely on automatic hits from the lesser Strife of the Falling Sky, you will need some way to avoid drawing free attacks from your target. The Rising of Rain facilitates this, bu that is part of the True Strife. All-Encompassing Presence is excellent for letting any combatant character close and create distances, but that is an Alacrity greater gift.

>> No.71518363

>>71517758
Then you can change it.

It's built into the system pretty deep because it is an OSR product, designed to allow you to easily pull monsters and contextualize them in a world of demigods, but it can be done.

You also spend some time thinking about why you want to play OSR but don't like OSR.

>> No.71518451

>>71518363
>you can change the core system design
So basically writing a new system from scratch?

>> No.71520006

>>71518451
Either that or use a small table to translate die rolls. Kids are too scared of math for FASERIP, though.

>> No.71520281

>>71518363

>You also spend some time thinking about why you want to play OSR but don't like OSR.

I like the setting, the abilities, and the way the setting at least somewhat tries to integrate the abilities. I sharply disagree with the system's mechanics, and I know that to rewrite them would be a vast undertaking.

Perhaps my single favorite aspect of Godbound, when comparing it to other (demi)god games, is how it is completely unafraid to mix in themes of transhumanism and modern-day and sci-fi technology. I absolutely love how one of the main nations of the setting is modern-day America with all of the technology that comes with it (plus cybernetic augmentations), how many of the ruins spread out across the setting are actually abandoned sci-fi laboratories with honest-to-goodness mecha (godwalkers), how one nation is composed of tribal techno-priests salvaging this super-technology ala Endless Legend or Horizon: Zero Dawn, how sci-fi transhumanism and genetic experimentation are woven seamlessly across large swaths of the setting, up to and including having the fae be transhumans and their barrows be bioresearch laboratories.

I like how the backdrop of the setting, which permeates across every nation, revolves not around some godly figures, but across the hubris of three archetypical sci-fi empires: one focused on cold steel and hardware, one focused on personal excellence and transhumanism, and one focused on psychic collectives and mind-controlled citizenry.

I like how the game's mechanics fully supports this, with modern-day firearms, godwalker mechas, and Words like (sci-fi) Engineering, Network, and Artificial Intelligence.

It is not something you see particularly often in this (demi)god game genre. Even Exalted 3e is burying away alchemicals indefinitely, for example.

>> No.71522754

>>71520006
Got any good tables?

>> No.71527417

>>71520281
Really? Why is Exalted doing that?

>> No.71528013

>>71522754
The one posted, bumpfag.

>> No.71528202

>>71422745
I wish you luck on your campaign, friend. I am gearing up for my own, once our Stars Without Number campaign finishes up. We'll be using a setting of my own design, so I'm afraid I can't suggest much for Arcem specifically. That said, I think that it should be possible to draft a rough outline for the campaign that encourages the players to visit each region, so they have a more concrete "on-screen" effect.

>>71405010
>>71411760
>If you dislike OSR but like the idea of a relatively rules-light god game, then you will be fighting against Godbound every step of the way.
I come from a background of mostly Classic World of Darkness and Exalted 2e (my longest and largest campaign), primarily as the Storyteller. I have successfully run Mage: the Ascension. I have never had much luck with OSR dungeon or hex crawl games. What might I have trouble with while running Godbound?

>>71518451
I think the "1/5 from mortals, x5 to mortals" suggestion above seems a simple way to do it. I imagine it changes the damage curve for multi-dice attacks, but works fine otherwise?

>>71522754
Pretty sure that anon is referring to the table in >>71516035

>> No.71529416

>>71518021
Cute dragon.

>> No.71529595

>>71527417
I'm not sure to what extent they are being shelved, but I can easily imagine them doing so. 3e was trying really hard to play up the fantasy, and play down the magitech of the main setting. Autochthonia, the part of the setting that the Alchemicals are from, is full of magitech, and effectively takes place on a sealed plane of existence. So at best, I could see the devs leaving Alchemical Exalted until the very end of 3e. At worst, they might drop them altogether (which would be a pity).

>>71528202
Tell us about your setting, then.

>> No.71530470

>>71528202

I would not know whether or not you would like Godbound, given your cWoD and Exalted 2e background. Perhaps simply know that Godbound combat ports over the rather dull and infuriating, at least in my opinion, aspect of Exalted 2e combat that is a complete obsession with perfect defenses and mote/Effort attrition.

>> No.71532245

>>71530470
How would you fix them, then?

>> No.71532474

>>71532245

I do not know. It would take a heavy rewrite of the entire system.

A typical exchange in Godbound combat might look something like:

"My attack missed, so I will commit Effort for the scene and use Bolt of Invincible Skill/Unerring Blade to turn it into an automatic hit for 4 points of damage."
"In response to that, I will commit Effort for the scene and use Nine Iron Walls for a perfect defense against physical attacks."
"Not so fast. I commit Effort for the scene and use Purity of Brilliant Law to instantly and offensively dispel your Nine Iron Walls."

It really is like that mechanically. And this is before the hordes of minions come in.

If this is fine by you, then by all means, go forth with it. It is not for me, however.

>> No.71534119

>>71530470
Based on what you've said, and the links you've provided, it seems like Godbound's gameplay will be familiar to my Exalted veterans, without bogging us down with all the fiddly combat mechanics and speedbump Charms. And Mage: the Ascension has helped me adjudicate power creation and uses on the fly, so miracles should not be an issue. "Ex2, but faster and more streamlined" is exactly what we would want. Thank you.

>>71529595
>Tell us about your setting, then.
Behind the scenes, it is a sanctuary realm constructed during the Shattering, rigged with a reincarnation grid and other means to ensure comfortable self-sufficiency forever. But something went wrong, there was an internal struggle, and many systems were damaged. Now, the moon is cracked, the sun is permanently bisected, the primary religion teaches that the gods are all dead (but you should obey them anyway), and just recently 10 stars fell out of the sky and imbued random people with divine power (the Godbound, of course).

You've got your requisite isolationist magitech nation that only accepts young, healthy immigrants the better to siphon their life force into maintaining the failing celestial mechanisms. You've got the old, feudal kingdom split into skirmishing and intriguing fiefdoms. You've got the vibrant new state that has embraced industry and matchlock guns and pseudo-Enlightenment ideals and Mercantilism out the ass. You've got the central mountainous region with a shattered heavenly pillar that leaks divine radiation. You've got a lush, wooded region ruled by various kinds of witches and beast people. And you've got the buffer states and scattered island chains where the major powers vie for resources and control.

>> No.71534199

>>71534119
>actually likes Ex2e paranoia combat
Ew.

>> No.71534841

>>71532474

My GM contact for Godbound, whom I have mentioned here >>71503428, has corrected me by saying that *this* is what Godbound combat is actually like once armies of minions get involved:

>"My attack missed, so I will commit Effort for the scene to use Bolt of Invincible Skill/Unerring Blade to turn it into an automatic hit for 4 points of damage."
>"I suffer 4 points of damage and in response, my orbital godhead archer platform vaporizes you with NaN damage worth of arrows from 'same-realm' range."

>"... I use Purity of Brilliant Law to negate the gift that allows them to do that."
>"How do you even target them? You need Line of Sight."
>"No I don't, how can they target me?"
>"Their gift lets them,"
>"Then I'm interacting with the gift, and I should be able to use Purity on it."
>"No, that's not how it wor-"

>-[One Broken Friendship Later]-
>"Man, remember Godbound?"

Armies of Minor Heroes with None Beyond Reach seems like a recurring cheese tactic.

>> No.71534970

>>71534199
>paranoia combat
We always (intentionally) avoided it. Mind you, after 3 years, we were tired of avoiding it, but we managed to keep the campaign going that long without any paranoia combat. No one likes that shit, but the rest of the system can be made to function with (a lot of) effort.

>>71534841
>"No, that's not how it works-"
This is where the argument would stop with my group. We are all there to have fun, not to cheese the system or setting, and they trust my rulings enough to roll with it during a session.

>> No.71537955

>>71534119
Is that the moon?

>> No.71540486

>>71534841
>Armies of Minor Heroes with None Beyond Reach seems like a recurring cheese tactic.
"Cheese" tactic?

>> No.71542908

>>71503020
>It is clear that you and I simply have different preferences...
I'm also not a moron. Hope this helps you resolve your defect.

>> No.71543051

>>71542908
No bully.

>> No.71545579

>>71543051
I agree with that, random anon.

>> No.71546702

>>71532474
Correction. This is how combat works if your pantheon is fighting against enemies that even have these gifts or abilities. Which, most of them SHOULDN’T be, unless it specifically makes sense in the confines of the narrative. Like going somewhere very dangerous, even for Godbound.

Storming the fallen shards of Heaven is very different than fighting the automaton cossacks of the Iron Tsar, or fighting enemies that may be supernaturally empowered, but their abilities may or may not be very effective against the Godbound. Or just regular ass people, or babby tier low magic users.

At the same time, I can see a kernel of truth in what you say. Yes, more upscale fights really does boil down to whittling away Effort, counterspelling, and so on.

What I’ve found that helps for that is admittedly cliche advice: describing the attacks and Effort expenditure narratively does a lot to help make it feel more exciting. I’m not saying describe each and every single attack and miss, but a little garnishing here and there goes a long way.

BUT, as you said, it works for some folks, and doesn’t for others. At that point, one can just shrug and move on, I suppose.

>> No.71546959

>>71546702

>This is how combat works if your pantheon is fighting against enemies that even have these gifts or abilities. Which, most of them SHOULDN’T be, unless it specifically makes sense in the confines of the narrative. Like going somewhere very dangerous, even for Godbound.

Many, many, many meaningful enemies have gifts. The bestiary is chock full of enemies sporting some manner of gifts. Consider that, for example, mortal warriors come in three tiers: "Minor Hero," "Major Hero," and "Great Hero of a Land." Even the Minor Heroes have a single gift, and Major Heroes have three gifts.

If we have a look at the core rulebook, we will find the description of a "ruin" to be:
>"Ruin" is a catch-all term for any potentially dangerous place that would reward the PCs' exploration. It can be an actual ruin, or a parasite god's temple, or the stronghold of a mutant bandit clan, or the labyrinthine sewers of a Patrian city, or a shimmering fragment of fallen Heaven itself. The ruin is dangerous, but there's something there that would make its exploration worthwhile for the PCs.

The prescribed opposition for a "bandit chief"-themed "ruin," one that is not absolute rubbish like that of Big Feet Zu from Ten Buried Blades, is:
>Bandit Chief: Minor or Major Hero with a Skilled Mage lieutenant, a Large Mob of rabble and a Small Mob of veteran bandits

That is non-negligible opposition for a starting pantheon, particularly if the bandit chief is a Major Hero.

Mortal spellcasters are seriously beefy as well. A Skilled Mage:
>represents a duke’s sorcerous vizier or one of the most powerful wizards of a city. Aside from being an archmage of some low magic tradition, they should pick three appropriate gifts as their immediately-available spells. They also get two actions per round.

This is formidable opposition. And let us not even get into Eldritches.

>> No.71546991

>>71546959

Lesser Eldritch:
>These are superlatively-gifted mortal magi, lesser adepts of the Black Academies, high priests of lesser faiths, and court wizards of powerful rulers. They can be treated as adepts of a single Word in addition to that of Sorcery and have mastered the theurgic incantations of the Gate. They are able to take two actions per turn.

Greater Eldritch:
>Great magi of the Black Academies, patriarchs of the Unitary Church, court wizards to emperors, lich-lords of ageless learning, and other great figures of magic qualify as greater Eldritch. They are adepts of at least two Words in addition to Sorcery and can have theurgic invocations of the Gate or the Way. They get two actions per turn.

Master Eldritch:
>These are the sorcerer-tyrants of whole realms or the arcane hermits who dwell in the shattered halls of Heaven. Every degree of theurgy is open to them, in addition to at least three Words aside from that of Sorcery. They get three actions per turn.

If a pantheon confronts a great magus of a Black Academy, a patriarch of the Unitary Church, or a court wizard to the ruler of one of Arcem's great nations, that mortal spellcaster is probably going to be a Greater Eldritch. A low-level pantheon could very well be completely crushed by a Greater Eldritch, depending on how the pantheon is built and how the Greater Eldritch is built. The pantheon's best hope, as it usually is, is to send in empowered minions.

Mortal spellcasters are so ridiculously strong in Godbound that it arguably undermines the Godbound themselves.

>> No.71547261

>>71546991

What about the fae? They come in four tiers: common, beast, lord, and prince. Technically, Letion Si comprises a fifth tier.

Even a common fae, however, has Effort 2 and combat gifts:
>The breeds listed below are some of the most common lineages, along with a typical ability or two they possess. Some sub-strains might have different powers, or more potent versions of these abilities. Most can appear in any of the power levels listed above.

>Goblin Knight: Sword's Unerring Blade and Nine Iron Walls. All armored, well-armed, and deeply disquieting in appearance, either through uncanny beauty or monstrous deformity. Many ride a Horse of Brass and Flame.

I definitely would not discount just how common it is to face gift-wielding enemies in battle.

Personally, I do not think that simply describing attacks, perfect defenses, and Effort expenditures is a particularly good solution. It adds color to the scene, but it does not fix the core of the mechanics. I would rather have a game in which characters have a wide selection of extraordinary/supernatural abilities to use in tactical combat (e.g. D&D 4e), where the flavor goes atop meaningful mechanical decisions; or a game in which narrative descriptions directly influence how attacks and defenses work (e.g. Legends of the Wulin, Tian Shang), not just through crude "stunt bonuses."

>> No.71548922

I'm actually curious how easy is it for you to lose effort. it seems like it's only worth one point of investment, but anymore than three may not be worth it. Unless you want to simply just spam miracles which don't seem efficient either.

>> No.71550029

>>71548922
Not only are there Miracles and "spammable" (very useful if used multiple times) powers that have scene- or day-long commitments (and thus will burn through Effort), but Effort lets you automatically succeed on a saving throw. Those are potent benefits, and expanding one's Effort pool is usually a good idea.

>> No.71552792

>>71550029
Any tips on doing that?

>> No.71554289

>>71550029
Is that Unicron?

>> No.71557276

>>71387220
Thoughts on a Gravity Word? Anyone?

>> No.71557567

anyone remember when we used this system to make Darksiders characters?

>> No.71558519

You were chosen. But chosen by what? By whom?

When the 10 stars fell from the night sky, one of them came to YOU. Did it smash through your roof and into your chest with a roar like thunder? Did it slither up on your shoulder and whisper a secret in your ear? Did it float before you, a silent rainbow, and wordlessly offer you a pact for the power it carried?

However it happened, you have power now, MAGICAL power. Perhaps you had power or magic before, but not like this. This is something miraculous, and dangerous, and you can feel it coursing through every fiber of your being. You have become something other than human, more than mortal.

Perhaps you are aware that power always comes at a price: in debts owed, in sacrifices made, in ideals compromised, in responsibilities gained. You just inherited a LOT of power, and you have no idea what the price is or will be. You should probably be worried. But the good news is that you aren't alone! After all, 9 other stars fell that night; maybe there are more people like you out there. And there is a certain sage who knows a great deal about the stars; he might be worth paying a visit to, before whatever price comes due.

That is just the start, though.
One falling star is an omen. Ten falling stars is a promise. The world is about to change, and you have a sneaking suspicion that you are involved now, whether you want to be or not. There are many people who would cry out for someone with your power to save them. There are many people who would want such power to stay well away. And a few might think that they can take that power for themselves. But the power is yours right now; what changes will you bring about?

>The intro I gave my players for our campaign. Followed by a short setting primer, and our special character creation house-rules.

>> No.71560050

>>71557567
No. XD Have any more of this?

>> No.71561270

>>71558519
Short, concise, evocative, I like it.

I’m excited to get my own game up and running this Sunday. None of us have played Godbound before but all of us have wanted to for a long ass time, so the hype is real.

Even better, the players have actually told me what they want to accomplish, this being a sandbox game. End the eternal war between fantasy Rome and China, properly restore Hell, and curbstomp those angel fucks that keep wrecking shit.

>> No.71561482

>>71560050
thats all i saved

>> No.71561503

>>71560050

>> No.71561516

>>71561503

>> No.71563830

>>71561503
Thanks.

>> No.71566201

>>71561516
Is this all of it?

>> No.71568553

>>71561270
Do you have any more art like this, please?

>> No.71569733

>>71387220
is there any actual fluff about the throne, is it just a cool image?

>> No.71571032

>>71566201
All that i have yes

>> No.71572585

>>71569733
Besides the bit in the opening, you mean?

>> No.71574078

>>71496367
A better ruleset wouldn't require such basic arbitration.

>> No.71574256

>>71574078
You've never played a single game in your life.

>> No.71575811

>>71572585
What bit?

>> No.71578978

>>71574256
You can tell? XD

>> No.71581151

>>71568553
Seconded.

>> No.71582991

>>71581151
Thirded.

>> No.71583222

>>71568553
>>71581151
>>71582991

God, I wish. Unfortunately, my folder of genuinely good "angelic eldritch/alien" art is critically lacking.

>> No.71583278

There's the Angelarium site that's a good source of eldritch-looking angels, though I'm sure everyone and their great grandparents already knew this.

>> No.71585700

>>71583222
That's sad.

>> No.71587676

>>71583278
I didn't.

>> No.71590333

>>71583222
What's a good mix between humanoid and angelic for angels?

>> No.71591147

>>71587676
Eyy, hope you find the site useful then!

>>71590333
How I've usually portrayed them in Godbound is a healthy mix one way or another. Some angels look just like humans but with wings stapled on, others are flaming wheels with eyes on them.

On a separate axis from human-eldritch looking, Archangels devoted to Word-concepts like, say, Artifice or Engineering would look different from one that's an archangel of Fire, or Time. Pic related, probably what I'd steal for an Archangel of Artifice.

>> No.71592878

Spending my time in quarantine rebuilding Scion, because why not.

I'm using Godbound rules as a base because I like them, especially the words/gifts, but I'm thinking of bringing in clocks from Blades in the Dark (more specifically, from Beam Saber). The tl;dr is the GM fills in or erases segments of clocks like in pic related (though they may have 4 to 8 segments depending on how long you want them to run). There's usually an overarching mission clock that's more tricky to fill in, and a bunch of smaller clocks. So the goal in the session might be an 8-step clock "Bind Typhon back under Mount Etna" that the players are trying to fill in, with a 4-step "Jerry steals the Eye of Horus" that the players are trying to stop from completing to prevent their rival from getting a powerful artifact.

The idea is to give some structure to the game beyond just throwing out a gift and having problems vanish, giving it a rising action. The issue is that BitD uses degrees of success and bargains with the GM. For example, you get a partial success so you only fill in one segment of the Typhon clock, or you bargain so you can fill in two segments of the Typhon clock if the GM can fill in one segment of the Jerry clock. A lot of the game's mechanics are built around either making a roll safer (i.e. things are less bad if you botch) or more effective when it does succeed, often at the cost of Stress (a second HP pool, when it fills you get a permanent disability). The PCs have areas of excellence and special abilities, but they are very mortal in BitD.

How can I bring over the clocks to Godbound rules without nerfing the demigods? I don't want to take away the power of words/gifts, but unless there is a cost associated with their use then they'll spam those to fill clocks rather than risk rolls, and many times the gifts are powerful enough that it makes sense to fill large parts of a clock.

>> No.71595178

>>71592878
Let us know when you've got something ready to share, please.

>> No.71597808

>>71595178
Seconded.

>> No.71598092

For reference, Bumpfag? Nobody appreciates the empty replies where you ask other people to produce content bot don't provide anything yourself.

We get actively angry when you second and third yourself to pretend that you're not a lonely leech unable to understand how /tg/ works or produce anything of your own.

>> No.71600273

>>71557276
Seconded?

>> No.71602982

>>71598092
You contribute, then.

>> No.71603223

>>71592878
Are you using Scion 1e or 2e as your origin point, or a mix of both?

As for the clocks, could you treat them as related to the faction system to some degree? For example, each faction now has clocks for Trouble and Cohesion. Or you could decouple it from the usual systems, just using it as a more concrete representation of events taking place. The Titan cult must do X big things to secure its position against the PCs, and the clock indicates how close it is to achieving this.

Tying them in directly to player actions is trickier, because Godbound PCs can move fast, and often avoid immediate mistakes. Unless you are changing up the power levels involved, it may be better to have the clocks be part of knock-on consequences of things PCs do. Sure, no one got hurt when you hurled that truck, but the Collateral Damage clock still ticked along.

>>71602982
These responses don't make people want to contribute. Quite the opposite. Several times I have seen the thread about to die, and chose not to bump because it seemed an appropriate time for it fade away.

>> No.71603926

>>71603223
Nice art, have any more like it, please?

>> No.71604872

>>71603223
I was going for more of a 1e vibe, though I probably am going to step down the Titanomachy a bit so the players aren't under a huge time crunch to go go go, and can work on establishing their pantheon and building Dominion.

I do like the idea of using clocks to track the faction changes; it allows for smaller installments of Influence and Dominion to move a faction along.

The flexibility of the PCs is the big issue I'm having with the clocks. The key is that they should be able to move both forward and backward; it's not a countdown, it's a balancing act between PCs and NPCs as each tries to shove the needle to one end or the other. They don't work unless the players are actively involved in seeing and changing them. Would Godbound work with a levels of success system, or would that make gifts even more OP?

And bumpfag? I did contribute. I talked about something, and got you double-replying with nothing. I'd rather no answer at all and see the thread die than watch you spam every thread on the board.

>> No.71605535

>>71603926
Fantasy city art thread. Check the catalog.

>>71604872
I haven't gotten into Blades yet (despite being interested in Beam Saber) so I might not understand what you are trying to achieve. From my experience with Godbound, in-scene events are fast and a little loose. If you need to track progress on a clock, you are tracking big things. Major events and broad trends. If you are looking at a PC's degrees of success on a roll, you might be too "zoomed in."

That isn't to say it is impossible, especially if you are rewriting the Gifts and other powers to be less "perfect." I just seem to be missing your end goal. What sort of clocks are you envisioning? What sort of roll results might trigger a clock ticking over in this scenario?

>> No.71607048

>>71605535
Thanks.

>> No.71609409

>>71605535
There should be more art like this.

>> No.71611207

>>71605535
The way I would like the see clocks work is as an objective metric of success and failure.

It's super easy in heist games to lose track of elements, for the GM to pull out cheap surprises and no-win conditions, etc. The clocks are open information that everyone knows about, can track the progress of, and change. In Beam Saber, there are explicit rules about how a roll can tick a clock forward or back a step, so that the players always understand the pressure they are under before X happens.

Thinking about it more for Godbound, I'm wondering if substituting in a degrees of success system instead of pass/fail (it can be tied to the damage conversion chart for ease of use), with each degree representing a tick forward/back on a given clock, might work. However, that does have 2 issues:

1) PCs rarely whiff a roll; unless the partial successes also come with negatives, they will blast through clocks without an issue.

2) I don't want to significantly depower gifts, because part of the enjoyment I get from this system is giving the players a phenomenal amount of power they can use at will, instead of gating would-be gods behind unnecessary walls. However, how gifts interact with a clock system would be critical to working out, because if it makes sense to spam gifts that don't require scene- or -day-long commitments of effort to move clocks forward, rather than risking rolls, that is an obvious mechanical flaw.

So the broad stroke I'm looking for is a system to give structure to positive and negative results that the players can see, understand, and work with, that doesn't take away the agency and power inherent to Godbound.

>> No.71613468

>>71604872
Is there seriously a guy with an "EVE Online" T-shirt and a heart symbol coffee mug?

>> No.71613935

>>71613468
Yes. And while I suspect you're BumpAnon, I'll give you a smidge of credit for at least for asking something that ALMOST felt like a real addition.

That's Ptah, Egyptian god of Artisans, who in the modern world is noted to have happily adopted modern "craftspeople" roles like more advanced/niche forms of Engineering, and game design.

In short, he's the God of Nerds. And since the original Scion book was released in 2007, they decided to use EVE as the shorthand for that. (since it's a little more craft-focused than other MMOs)

>> No.71616061

>>71611207
It is possible to add up to a -8 penalty for certain rolls, which (while intended to be super rare) could increase the chances of PC failure. However, the bigger issue you will face are Gifts that don't require a roll, period. How will those interact with your clocks?

>>71613935
>And since the original Scion book was released in 2007, they decided to use EVE as the shorthand for that.
Also, White Wolf had just been purchased by CCP, the makers of EVE. It was a company in-joke.

>> No.71616586

>>71616061
Damnit, I knew there was another level to it, but I couldn't remember it and felt it couldn't be too important for a quick 4chan post.

>> No.71617949

>>71611207
Could you give an example what sort of rolls might affect what sort of clocks? Are you talking about a player failing a stealth attempt, and ticking the "Discovery" clock, for example?

If I were to do a "Scions trying to foil a Titan ritual" plot, I might have 3 clocks going: Ritual Progress, Collateral Damage, Heat. The first is obviously how close the villains are to reaching their goal, and changes based on acquiring or losing materials, gaining access to suitable sites, etc. Maxing out Ritual Progress results in the PCs failing. The second clock is the amount of major damage and chaos left in the PCs' wake, from ruined lives to destroyed property. Filling this clock might cause civilians/allies to turn against the PCs, or aid the villains in some way. Heat would measure how recognized the PCs are (or how big of a threat they are considered) by the villains. This clock fills based on PCs making overt moves, leaving evidence, and causing obvious trouble to the villains. When it maxes out, the villains may go on the offensive against the PCs.

In this scenario, specific roll results will not affect the clocks, but the nature of those actions will. Choosing to smash open a wall instead of infiltrating quietly will increase Heat and Collateral, but is much faster. Killing a civilian witness may reduce Heat, but increases Collateral.

>> No.71619778

>>71617949
Are those Dementors?

>> No.71621124

>>71617949
>Could you give an example what sort of rolls might affect what sort of clocks? Are you talking about a player failing a stealth attempt, and ticking the "Discovery" clock, for example?

Broadly, yes.

The rule for clocks is that they describe obstacles and goals, not methods. So for the described scenario, I'd set up one 6-step clock for Ritual Ruined, a 6-step for Ritual Completed, and a 4-step for Collateral Damage.

The Ritual Ruined and Ritual Completed clocks are in opposition, with the PCs trying to fill the Ruined one before the cultists can do Completed. If the Collateral Damage clock is filled, the PCs did enough damage to have materially harmed their rep, which I would carry over to the faction side.

Beam Saber uses degrees of success to determine how much of a given clock is filled; limited success is one segment, standard is two, great is three (or it can be done to reverse negative clocks, depending on the roll). If the players get a partial success or failure, the MC fills in one or two segments of a negative clock. Importantly, the PCs have abilities that can let them increase level of effect.

So the nature of the action decides which clocks get filled, while the mechanics dictate how much they fill. That's the selling point for me: it's a narrative system, but the mechanics are not at all obscured or dictated by a mother-may-I system.

>>71616061
>However, the bigger issue you will face are Gifts that don't require a roll, period. How will those interact with your clocks?
That's my issue. I could rule something like "Those gifts always cause great effect" but I don't want to mechanically optimize some choices over others, especially choices that are just "I win" buttons instead of doing things.

>> No.71622269

>>71621124
How would Blades/Beam Saber handle non-rolled actions? How would it handle things that simply succeed, with no numerical grading of success? Because that is what Godbound frequently deals in; possessing a suitable Word or Fact obviates all but the most difficult or contested rolls, even when not using a Gift! The intention of this design is to reduce focus on random chance and time spent rolling, the better to focus on what the PCs do and what consequences might come from their actions and approaches.

>> No.71622501

>>71621124
Do you have more Scion art like that, please?

>> No.71625236

>>71387220
Bumping.

>> No.71625486

>>71387731
I made the Word of Vaults, which is about hoarding wealth and operating more as a bank/prison than Wealth is. The published document for it here has 2 versions, the one of the left is the original and the one on the right is one I had to modify to be accepted into a game (whether or not its balance was improved is questionable).

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vSAJrmPft3aeX6SEY9Nx4UzWaHHvIVJSDrtz-_TCZM9mWv9MkF2wOEpBJ1twcZdVKTbEtyyMOdtJno9/pubhtml

>> No.71626453

>>71622269
Beam Saber has a meta-currency called Stress that a PC uses to dictate what happens. So they can spend stress to make a roll easier or more effective, to negate a negative consequence from a missed roll, or to do certain moves on their sheet without needing to roll. Stress is a number that climbs and climbs (and rarely goes down during missions) which you need to spend downtime (between-mission sessions) to clear. If it clears a threshold, your PC takes a permanent debility and is removed from the session.

The obvious solution there is to change Effort into Stress. The problem is that they operate with two different ideas. Effort is meant to be committed, taken back, moved around, and stay active during a session, so it is very slow to whittle down, only when players want to use miracles or their big guns. Limiting it's ability to move around lessens the feeling of being powerful demigods.

>> No.71627333

>>71625486
>Hoard without End has some poor design in it. You Commit Effort for only an action but make a permanent thing, but you are also afraid of someone making something too powerful so you threw in the arbitrary limit about committing for the day for 'particularly powerful objects'. Pick one rule and stick to it, it stops needless semantic disagreements.

>Eidoloic Bastille does not need the level of explanation it gets. Personally I would remove the 'prisoners do not feel boredom' tag, it's pointless and feels like something shoehorned in so you don't feel bad about keeping prisoners indefinitely. They're in your vault, fuck their feelings.

>Unbreachable Sanctum is another Gift that's way too wordy. No need to explain that dragon fire doesn't burn wood, it's a nice image but unnecessary when you've already said it's impervious to damage. Also, there seems to be no end state for that gift - can you make everything in the world Unbreachable Sanctums, one building at a time?

I'm honestly not a fan of the Word in general, it seems to be trying to do too many things. You can create objects (or rather duplicate things and turn one substance into another), access extradimensional spaces of various kinds, build physical structures and reinforce them, go mining... It's too much.

>> No.71627355

>>71625486
>>71627333
I like Opulent Labyrinth and the idea behind Unbreachable Sanctum and Eidolic Bastille, and I think that the Word as a whole could use reworking in that direction. If you're going to crib from other Words, look less at Earth and more at Protection from Lexicon of the Throne, though you'd want to reverse it's selfless nature. Make it less about finding and making things, and more about gathering resources to yourself, protecting them, and hoarding them for your own benefit. Someone with this word should not be a moneyman sprinkling copies of magic swords and giant blocks of gold around the land; they should be a dragon, building their own wealth and power and keeping it out of the hands of others. It can be less fun designing a defensive Word, but the impetus of being a master of Vaults is enough to keep the character active.

Consider something like:
>Eye for Value: Constant. When you enter a new location, you may ask the GM what the most beautiful, the rarest, or most valuable thing there is, and how you can get it. Should you ask, lesser foes are compelled to tell you everything they know about what they value most highly, and the protections around them.

>Baited Hook: Action. Commit Effort when giving someone a gift. So long as the Effort remains committed, the recipient grows more and more covetous of the gift over time, eventually leading to obsession. If the gift has been in their possession longer than a month, you can compel the recipient to either return the gift or give you something that they used to value more highly. When the Effort is withdrawn, you can no longer compel the recipient, but they remain possessive of it.

>> No.71627891

>>71627355
Also, stole both those ideas from the Hoarder playbook from Apocalypse World.

That and the Underworld Word from Lexicon of the Throne are good fodder for Vault.

>> No.71629431

>>71626453
Ah, so Blades is sort of like PbtA, where every action a player might take is covered by a set of discrete Moves, accompanied by dice rolls to determine grades of success/failure? That is definitely different from Godbound's approach. Sadly, I am not sure how to bridge that gap, because it is a fundamental (and intentional on both sides) difference in play style. The best I could offer would be the suggestion from earlier, of decoupling clocks from specific rolls, and instead tying them solely to in-game events. Or porting the concept of Words and Miracles into the BitD system, in some fashion.

>> No.71632220

>>71629431
Is that the Greek underworld?

>> No.71634664

>>71632220
Cerebus looks more like an ugly lizard than a dog...

>> No.71635777

>>71627891
Any other good places to steal stuff from?

>> No.71637935

Throwing in a bump because you guys are on page 10 and despite having the thread open for multiple days I still haven't begun to go through the OP

>> No.71638522

>>71637935
Oh yeah, been there, done that.

>> No.71640698

What Words should the Doom Slayer have? Alacrity, Bow, and Vengeance? Maybe might and/or Protection?

>> No.71642078

>>71640698
I have no idea who the Doom Slayer is, so no clue.

>> No.71642231

Just let this thread archive. We've run out of fruitful discussion, so this is a natural time for it to fade away. The OP will persist for another, what, two weeks after that? Godbound is fun, but unless someone wants to start talking about their campaign, there isn't any reason for this thread to limp along.

>> No.71642835

>>71627333
>>71627355
I fundamentally dislike the notion you have in mind for Vaults. I designed it precisely to be a "a moneyman sprinkling copies of magic swords and giant blocks of gold around the land," as an alternative to Wealth or Artifice that encourages players to actually develop societies so they can add more things to their hoard, whereas both of those Words don't really benefit from sponsoring mortal civilizations.

Hoard Without End is designed to be as powerful as other Gifts from Wealth or Artifice. It can be used to duplicate any mundane thing as an action, in the same way that Wealth can do this or Artifice can make it. Duplicating a legendary magical sword is not equally an investment of narrative resources as duplicating a nice castle-forged blade, and so it also doesn't have mechanical equivalency. Anyway, I don't think there's much ambiguity in 'particularly powerful objects.'

Eidoloic Bastille is meant to offer a form of stasis for its prisoners and permit the Word of Vaults to seal away ancient and terrible threats. If it did not suppress boredom, the inhabitants would invariably go insane and their captivity would be the worst kind of torture imaginable, something that goes against the intention of the Gift to be used on a variety of people, and also heavily discouraging people from ever using it.

Unbreachable Sanctum clarifies that because 'immunity to damage' is something which traditionally has a workaround, oftentimes in the form of environmental changes that render immunity irrelevant. Regardless there's no harm in having that description. As for the end state, theoretically you could eventually enchant every building in the world, just as someone with Fertility could eventually impregnate everyone in the world or make the entire surface extremely fertile. However, it's costly, impractical, and can be undone if really so desired.

>> No.71643136

>>71437853
Lmao shut up weeb

>> No.71643159

>>71642835

>whereas both of those Words don't really benefit from sponsoring mortal civilizations.

Wealth is generally regarded as one of the weaker Words, hence why both the Darkview and Nepene house rules try to upgrade it considerably, and why it is bottom-tier in the Nepene tier list.

Artifice, conversely, is stated to be "potentially the most powerful and flexible Word in the game" in the Darkview house rules, and a top-tier Word in the Nepene tier list.

Wealth does, in fact, try to sponsor mortal societies. That is what all of the object-generation is for, and why Sustain the Multitude and The Golden God's Hand both directly affect factions.

Artifice, similarly, very much benefits from sponsoring mortal civilizations. Ten Thousand Tools allows for the rapid construction of buildings. Transmuter can be used with the rules for off-screen Effort/scene in page 9 of the Lexicon of the Throne to craft entire cubes of steel. Perpetual Perfection can equip a whole army with magic armor and magic weapons.

>> No.71643205

>>71643159
That Wealth and Artifice /can/ sponsor mortal civilizations, very effectively, does not mean they /benefit from/ sponsoring mortal civilizations. A Wealth player has no incentive to actually do that apart from just 'wanting his guys to win' or having a whim - Artifice, even more so, is basically just "I will build the civilization and they will come." Vaults is intended to make players find civilization and then invest in it - they can duplicate new goods easier than the same old ones, and with Opulent Labyrinth they're very heavily incentivized to increase the overall productivity of their sponsored peoples.

>> No.71643358

>>71643205

Is that without precedent? Command's Invincible Iron General encourages you to muster large armies, War is much the same, and Network encourages the proliferation of internet infrastructures, particularly with Web Weaver.

>> No.71643377

>>71643205
All of that just seems wildly off-theme for a word of Vaults.

>> No.71643399

>>71643358
I mean, good for those Words - so what? I wanted to make a Word that was like Artifice and Wealth, but which had a symbiotic relationship with communities it sponsored.

>>71643377
That's like, your opinion, man. Make your own Word if you have a better idea.

>> No.71644722

>>71643159
>can be used with the rules for off-screen Effort/scene in page 9 of the Lexicon of the Throne
Those are NOT "rules," they are warnings. That section is telling GMs to be careful about how they design homebrew, and what sort of effect different designs might have on the game.

As for my group, anything big they want to do during downtime will cost Dominion or Influence, with reasonable discounts for how effective their powers are.

>> No.71645352

>>71644722

Core rulebook, page 25:
>Most scenes last no more than fifteen minutes, though longer ones exist at the GM’s discretion.

Lexicon of the Throne, page 9:
>If he had to Commit Effort every time he used that power, however, at first level he could only manage about 16,000 cubic feet every fifteen minutes or so. Working round the clock without rest, it'd take him two months to recreate the pyramid, which is usually longer than the downtime between adventures lasts unless the PCs are intentionally focusing on their own projects. Material creation that costs Effort can usually solve any immediate problem that requires a lot of the given material, but it can't easily create the kind of campaign-influencing amounts that Effortless creation can.

Is this not an indication that, off-screen, a character is able to refresh their Effort once every 15 minutes? This is the crux of >>71490850, for example.

>> No.71648896

>>71644722
Fire golem? Nice.

>> No.71649313

>>71642835
>whereas both of those Words don't really benefit from sponsoring mortal civilizations.
Wealth is a shit word that doesn't almost nothing except help mortals poorly, Artifice is an absurd word that helps mortals, and supernaturals, more than almost anything else in the game. That you understand this so poorly explains a lot.

>> No.71649365

>>71640698
When I built him a few days ago I decided on; Bow, Endurance, Might, and Vengeance.

>> No.71651033

>>71649365
Share character sheet, please?

>> No.71652040

>>71557276
I like it in concept; you'd just have to come up with enough powers. You've got increase/decrease gravity, flying, center gravity on a given point, maybe a gravitational warp as a ranged attack, something that makes lesser foes either heavily debuffed or outright immobilized in an area around you, and maybe a passive that says you can never be knocked off balance or some such. I'd go to the effort of statting it out, but, you know, Godbound is a game that is not dnd, so finding a group and getting enough experience to do so in a balanced way is a bit off the table.

>> No.71652531

Should be a Crawford general to be honest.

>> No.71653256

>>71649313
Read
>>71643205

>> No.71653271

>>71642078
The protagonist of the Doom series.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NesDPTM2oW4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGfhbCpW-eM

>> No.71653296

>>71652531
Maybe next thread. Stars Without Number is why my group was interested in Godbound in the first place.

>> No.71653665

>>71652531
>Crawford
Why Crawford?

>> No.71656361

Hey, I actually do have a request related to Godbound.

Does anybody have some good character sheets for it? Perhaps either fillable or printer friendly?

Thanks a lot

>> No.71656733

>>71656361
This is what came in the drivethru RPG package

>> No.71657339

>>71656733

Thanks, although I already have that one. I was wondering if there were any good homebrewed ones.

>> No.71659504

>>71657339
I would also like this, please.

>> No.71662628

>>71659504
Thirded.

>> No.71664934

>>71653296
How is that, now?

>> No.71665045

I didn't even know this was a thing. I'll take a look.

>> No.71666773

>>71665045
Do you like Exalted at all?

>> No.71666783

>>71666773
I've been looking into it, but now I'm not sure whether to pick Exalted or this one. Exalted lore seems a bit intimidating.

>> No.71670113

>>71666783
How so?

>> No.71673471

>>71666783
I don't get what you mean, I like the lore.

>> No.71676757

>>71666783
If anything Godbound is in a worse situation.

>> No.71680096

>>71676757
Really? Exalted has the Neverborn.

>> No.71684032

>>71680096
And the Ebon Dragon.

>> No.71684062

>>71680096
>>71684032
Yeah, but Exalted doesn't have the laws of physics breaking down to the point where you get spontaneous demonic invasions and zombie apocalypses happening.

>> No.71686527

>>71684062
>spontaneous demonic invasions
wyld zones
>and zombie apocalypses
shadowlands

This is entirely ignoring that Creation is literally always under assault from the formless chaos and oblivion just by existing.

>> No.71688354

Do you guys think you could strap "words" to a high level OSR than have reached 10th level for a demi god campaign?

>> No.71690473

>>71684062
Point.

>> No.71691506

>>71688354
The problem with that idea is that Words are such a huge jump in power above where OSR typically ends. A player could spend the entire campaign with their fighter, slowly building up his talents and respectability to find retainers, earn a lordship, build a castle, and become a baron, only to get the Word of Command next session and then be able to take over the whole kingdom on a whim. It can feel like it's invalidating all the work that came before. Especially important in OSR games, where lots of players love the scrabbling in the dirt and clever tactics to beat three goblins, as opposed to wiping out armies with a snap of the fingers.

That said, it definitely can work. I would talk about it with the players, and slow-roll out the power creep. Introduce Strifes and Ancalian bloodlines at level 8, see how they take, then float limited Godbound like Exemplars, Arrayed, and Elemental Godbound. Keep building up from there until everyone is comfortable with the power level. Obviously it works best if it's established in the world that these powers exist, but the PCs just haven't been on that level so far and have escaped notice.

>> No.71695399

>>71691506
How did they balance all of those dice?

>> No.71697782

>>71695399
Glue?

>> No.71700356

>>71686527
Which game has the best art, then?

>> No.71702720

>>71700356
Exalted lacks consistency due to a shotgun approach to contracting, Godbound has very little art in comparison but it's consistently decent at worst. So I give it to Godbound solely because it doesn't contain anything that literally made me stop and ask how this passed editorial.

That said Exalted has way more art, good and bad, than Godbound.

>> No.71702738

>>71702720
>Exalted lacks consistency due to a shotgun approach to contracting
[citation needed]

>> No.71703507

>>71702738
Ooh. If that's a BumpAnon post, it's a remarkably good one.

In case you're legitimately unaware: Onyx Path (and before them, White Wolf) have a noted history of using contractors for specific sections of books without giving them means to communicate with other contractors, or having an editor to guide them.

There are exalted books (such as the Manual of Exalted Power: Yozis) that openly contradict themselves between one half and another, because no one told the two writers what the other was saying.

>> No.71706288

>>71703507
I haven't read that book, how do they contradict each other? What other books do so as well?

>> No.71707244

>>71706288
In a lot of ways, mostly tone

>> No.71710568

>>71707244
I think I remember hearing about that, didn't the book's chapters disagree on how inherently evil the Infernals were?

I don't remember any other significant contradictions, though.

>> No.71712134

bump

>> No.71714487

>>71710568
Does anyone else know?

>> No.71716931

>>71387220
We'll probably reach the bump limit in the next day or so, should we make a new thread then, or wait a week or two first?

>> No.71719611

>>71703507
Seriously?

>> No.71720345

>>71691506
Isn’t that from Pitt?

>> No.71722708

>>71720345
I believe so, yeah.

>> No.71722843

>>71422914
No DC, you just have to be worthy.

Good luck.

>> No.71723728

>>71722843
You just have to be the Archgod of Heaven.

>> No.71725759

>>71723728
Is that a reference? I don't get it.

>> No.71727528

>>71716931
I think we should wait a bit.

>> No.71729391

>>71710568

When it comes to the contradictions in exalted, infernal was the worse; however, if you look hard enough through the other books you'll see it. I can't remember other examples off the top of my head.

>> No.71729405

>>71702720
Also, I don't know if i'd consider Godbound to be consistently decent though, some parts of it makes me scratch my head but that might just be the lexicon.

>> No.71729438

>>71653296
And speaking of stars without number, does godbound actually have a similar faction system or should I just port it from there?

>> No.71731493

>>71729405
What puzzles you?

>> No.71732271

>>71729438
I don't recall a faction system off the top of my head, but you should check the book.

>>
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