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/tg/ - Traditional Games


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>> No.70771058

>>70771006
Blue hair at night, coomer's delight. Blue hair at day, stay away!

>> No.70771074

This is the future you choose.

>> No.70771209

>>70771074
better job then I would have done, so am not going to throw any stones. this is for more skillfull anons we have here.

>> No.70771235

When is the next primarch wtf GW

>> No.70771241

>>70771074
Better than your grey tide

>> No.70771246

>>70771074
Is that contrast? looks awful

>> No.70771250

>>70771074
Contrasts are pretty nice for daemons and similar models

>> No.70771262

>>70771250
they make orks a fucking dream

>> No.70771270

>>70771241
A grey tide still has potential at least.

>> No.70771284

>>70771058
That little weird sensation you get is your primal instincts warning you not to stick your tongue, much less your dick against it.

>> No.70771311

>>70771284
I'm not a sexual predator tho

>> No.70771320

>>70771197
There's not that much difference. A game is a game and people play for different reasons.
Maybe you play on a private server, you turn on low gravity, ban the awp, play with uneven teams because one of your friends is bad at the game or have unwritten rules about not camping. Then you go to a lan party hosted by someone else and get shit on by a bunch of players who play competitively. You call them tryhards, while they just think you suck at the game.

>> No.70771333

>>70771246
Contrast is great on smaller models with details. It looks real bad on large flat or smooth areas

>> No.70771350

>>70771311
Yes you are. All men are rapists.

>> No.70771356

>>70771074
The thing is, this model most likely looks pretty okay on the table. It's only when you get a close-up look at models like this when they start to look "bad", and I use that term very loosely.

>> No.70771363

>>70771350
>Father Nurgle sends his blessings!

>> No.70771383

>>70771107
You've never played a roleplaying game, have you?

>video games
You've never played a video game for fun and have that ruined when someone comes in to treat it like a competition?

>sports
You've never done any sports as a hobby or for the sake of exercise?

>Research and practice
See, the thing here is that with 40K, you keep spouting that bullshit when it all comes down to "let's see what rules are broken this time around" and then doing that. It doesn't exactly require a lot of "skill".

>bronze league into masters.
Fucking E-sports ruining videogames for the rest of us. Did you ever play a videogame online before ranking became a thing? TF2 when it wasn't F2P? Unreal Tournament 2004 for FUN, not to be get to Platinum or whatever?

>> No.70771384

>>70771350
I specifically target those kinds of women because they're like the easiest on earth.
the difference between what they post on tumblr and what they do is astonishing

>> No.70771389

>>70771074
was that coloured using felt-tip pens?

>> No.70771396

>>70771006
Is she actually a cripple or is it for show?
thighs look a bit too thicc for someone on a weelchair

>> No.70771397

>>70771383
No one cared in the other thread and no one cares here.

>> No.70771400

What did Nurgle mean by this?

>> No.70771402

Any spoilers for Fist of the Imperium? Epub maybe?

>> No.70771405

>>70771396
>thighs look a bit too thicc for someone on a weelchair
As oppose to those in a wheelchair that regularly do half marathon to get thinner legs?

>> No.70771411

>>70771400
Back to your containment thread, aosfag

>> No.70771420

>>70771397
My (You)'s disagree.

>> No.70771430 [DELETED] 

Reminder to hide and report off-topic posts, and to think before replying to bait. Only you can improve thread quality!

>> No.70771434

>>70771405
Muscular atrophy usually means thin legs if you have spent much of your life sitting in a chair
Was just curious, i'd bone that cripples weird me out

>> No.70771435

>>70771402
>Space Marines win in the end

>> No.70771453

>>70771396
My gf is in a wheel chair and is a little thicc. It's. 100% diet

>> No.70771455

>>70771430
Good point! Thanks, Anon!

>>70771400
That GW isn't afraid to show buttmutations?

>> No.70771457

>>70771384
Based and hypocritic porker pilled

>> No.70771466

>>70771453
Shit boi how you fuck that

>> No.70771472

>>70771430
Who the fuck is "moot" and why should I care

>> No.70771476

>>70771472
Ha ha.

>> No.70771483

>>70771466
She can't outrun me

>> No.70771486

>>70771006
>maximum of four bolts in the magazine

>> No.70771490

Are the plastic tau flyers any good? I'd like to bring all branches of tau military but fuck me the forgeworld flyers are pricey, even looking at china.

When are we getting a look at Tau's PA rules dammit

>> No.70771493

>>70771435
Shame you can't provide full plot summary.

>> No.70771518

>>70771486
that's shitty manlets for you

>> No.70771532

>>70771490
just get a manta pussy

>> No.70771538

>>70771493
Oh you wanted the plot summary? Okay

>It's set in a conflict between the Imperium and it's enemies
>The Space Marines are led by their leader, who is a good guy and knows magic.
>He has a supporting cast of characters with different personalities, some of whom die during the fights.
>The Space Marines fight against their enemies
>There is a shocking event as the Space Marines are betrayed/the enemy's true objective becomes clear/the true, hidden enemy shows up
>The Space Marines overcome this obstacle and fight their enemy some more
>The Space Marines win.

>> No.70771543

>>70771486
One more in the magazine. Counting for round one having minimal shooting, he's got enough to shoot in every round of your average game.

>> No.70771555

>>70771543
You forget that bolters are rapid fire, so he'll shoot two times if he's at half range.

>> No.70771557

>>70771543
*in the chamber.

>> No.70771568

>>70771555
Nah, he just shoots twice as hard. The better you can see your enemy, the angrier you shoot.

>> No.70771585

>>70771333
It can look alright on armour panels but requires technique as opposed to just slapping it on

>> No.70771605

>>70771006
God, Phobos armour gets my dick so fucking hard
All those pouches and scopes and grenades
Twin combat knives for absolutely no reason
Ignores cover and modifiers to hit on the guns
Turn one suicide charges
I bought three invictors and thirty Infiltrators and thirty Incursors and nine Eliminators because Phobos just
GETS
MY
DICK
HARD

>> No.70771606

>>70771486
>>70771543
>>70771557
Really what gets me about these larger replicas that if it's a miniature, I can forgive the lack of attention and detail, but when you make a life-sized model, this shit becomes a glaring issue.

The caliber of that bolter is fucking insane, and he only has five rounds. There is nowhere on him to store extra magazines, and even if they were, they'd be the size of his thigh. He has his finger on the trigger, and there is no apparent safety on the gun.

There isn't a sight on the back either, a visible magazine ejector, or pretty much anything that the gun would require to function

>inb4 they're all just hidden on the left side of the gun

>> No.70771632

>>70771270
Keep telling yourself that.

>> No.70771639

>>70771486
Magazine is obviously double stacked.

>> No.70771650

>>70771639
>maximum of eight bolts in the magazine

>> No.70771656

>>70771606
But it's an upscale of the 2nd edition plastic marines from the starter box. To make it more realistic would completely detract from its aesthetic purpose

>> No.70771660

He tells you to get off his ship. How do you react?

>> No.70771669

>>70771605
looks like something from halo

>> No.70771675

>>70771669
indeed it looks like something realistic and based that had a great impact on scifi.

>> No.70771683

>>70771660
Well since he asked politely, i get off his ship without complaint

>> No.70771730

>>70771400
>*BRAP*
>Clean it up janny

>> No.70771737

>>70771383
I can somewhat relate to what you're trying to say, but the root issue seems to stem from the fact that losing hurts your personal ego regardless of why losing happens.
In each of these categories even when playing with friends people tried to either get the most frags or least deaths in their shooter lobby or score the most goals in a friendly ball game.
I do agree that 40k is extremely poor game for competition because GW actively uses the rules to sell models, but blaming players for treating 40k like any other game seems short-sighted.

>> No.70771738

>want to buy something
>its only available in SC! boxes
fantastic, love this new approach

>> No.70771745

>talkin with my necromunda buddy about 40k at the shop, he's thinking about getting a nid battleforce
>he's bewildered by the way eighth works, I show him the rulebook and the 1d4 tactics page
>the way he talks about the stuff he currently has prompts me to ask what all he does have
>fucker has over 2k of naked nids, guard and gsc before upgrades just sitting around

>> No.70771752

>>70771738
>want to buy something
>it's only available in an expensive 2 player box featuring primaris

>> No.70771756

>>70771074
ah, the famous tranny caste of tau

>> No.70771766

>>70771737
>like any other game
You... Really have never played any single game where the objective is to have fun, not win, have you? You have never even heard of narrative gaming or roleplaying?

>losing hurts your personal ego
No, what hurts is spending 2-4 hours on something that could be fun but isn't.

>> No.70771776

>>70771669
I don’t like Primaris Marines and never plan on buying them but the fact that it looks like something from Halo is actually something I like about that armor

>> No.70771787

>>70771752
That's kind of a good thing. The blightbringer goes for $10 burger dollars on eBay, otherwise GW would've sold it separately for as much as the other elite characters.

>> No.70771791

>Playing 3 Marine lists on day 1 definitely wasn’t a great experience, although they were all wildly different lists, and all three players were great fun to spend a few hours with. I appreciate that I’m part of the problem here, but still, it would be nice if the field was a little better balanced.
NOOO EVERYONE ELSE CAN'T JUST PLAY MARINES THIS IS MY OVERPOWERED CODEX NO NO NOOOOOOO

>> No.70771798

>>70771752
>in an expensive 2 player box featuring primaris
that's a long way to say available for $5 at all chinamen

>> No.70771813

>>70771235
Soon™ Fulgrim will arrive, after Psychic Awakening.

>> No.70771814

I'll admit I have a hard time keeping a nice face on when the dice start biting.
I don't really know what to do about it though, particularly because my main buddy gets really enthusiastic and his shouting glee only agitates me further when I'm rolling like shit or he lands the sixes he needs.
I know on a rational level I'm being dumb even in the moment but I can't help but get tilted sometimes. Winning isn't everything, but the journey isn't fun either when your dudes are getting fucked and doing nothing in their own turn.

>> No.70771815

>>70771791
I miss playing 7th with my traitor legions book. Actually, I miss not playing 8th. I can't even bring myself to play this shithole anymore.

>> No.70771817

>>70771284
yeah, against predators its meant to deter, but within your own species, coloration is meant to attract mates. You even posted an example where it's both.

>> No.70771832

>>70771752
you can buy the dg half for £35 off ebay

>> No.70771836

>>70771813
No. There will be no new primarchs. Maybe in 5-10 years.

>> No.70771842

>>70771814
It's harder on the 1st or 2nd turn when it's obvious you're gonna lose but still have to keep playing for another hour.

>> No.70771849

>>70771737
>losing hurts your personal ego regardless of why losing happens.
A boring game doesn’t make me want to get better, it makes me want to play a different game. I’m a very competitive person but 40k is so unbalanced it doesn’t drive me. Simple math and money is all you need to ensure you have the right army that will win. There’s no skill involved

>In each of these categories even when playing with friends people tried to either get the most frags or least deaths in their shooter lobby or score the most goals in a friendly ball game.
Again, in both of these scenarios skill is involved and your opponent isn’t likely to have a massive inherent advantage. In a good shooter your opponent can’t just decide to have a weapon that automatically hits and deals instant death but you can’t. In a ball game your friend is unlikely to be a professional player if you’re not

I’m a competitive shooter and no matter how much more expensive another guy’s pistol is (unless I’m using something I didn’t properly maintain) it doesn’t make him a better shot

>> No.70771850

>>70771766
It usually goes without saying that simply playing a game is supposed to be fun. That's the main difference between mundane activities like work or studying and playing games. If the simple fact that you are stepping away from your responsibilities to play a game isn't bringing you satisfaction then you need to step away from games for a while and focus on real activities like work or labour.

Now bringing it back to 40k, even during the tough competitive games against my mates I imagine narrative reasons, laser and explosions as the game goes on. You don't have to separate narrative and the game as long as you understand the above about why we play games in the first place.

>> No.70771853

>>70771660
>Look at me.
>I am de captain now.

>> No.70771856

>>70771605
what T'au model is this?

>> No.70771862

>>70771787
>>70771798
>>70771832
>muh ebay
>muh recasters
Yeah let's jump through some hoops and act like gypsies with all the retarded haggling instead of being able to freely buy game pieces from the source.

>> No.70771866

>>70771493
>Space marines arrive
>Suspect the Bad Guys are afoot.
>Kill the Bad Guys and a billion randos
>Some or all of them die, the end.

>> No.70771875

>>70771842
I'm getting into sisters now, and I'm kinda hoping that the miracle dice will allow me to alleviate some of it. Hedging the odd dice roll in my favor should at least make me feel like I'm not getting entirely fucked, or that if I am it's due to my own bad decisions.
Which it often is if I'm being honest, I'm a very glory-or-death kind of player, it just turns out to be death way more often than glory.

>> No.70771877

>>70771862
It's literally less than $9 shipped on ebay right now you double baka.

>> No.70771882

>>70771862
>Buying things off ebay is jumping through hoops

Don't even need to buy the whole half, plenty of people selling just the Blightbringer

>> No.70771893

>>70771605
Ramirez! Switching to your sidearm is faster than reloading! (Tap Y to switch to Belisaurius Caliber pistol with blizzard camo skin).

>> No.70771901

>>70771862
I mean, you're not wrong in that it is dumb and only enables GW's current shit in the long run.

But in the short term you literally can get the model you want for $10-30 right now.

>> No.70771925

>>70771893
>Ramirez
>not a crimson fist

>> No.70771926

>>70771817
Only if it occurs naturally.

>> No.70771929

>>70771893
Are there even any other models in the game holding a pistol with both hands

Oh yeah, Gretchin. Is this the only non-Greenskin-midget who knows how to use a handgun properly?

>> No.70771933

>>70771849
I'm fairly dissatisfied with the current balance in 40k as well, but saying the is no skill involved is false. I've lost countless games by being retarded in deployment as I'm sure you have if you play 40k. I do agree completely that with the way that GW is pushing sales with rules, having money and getting your models painted for you is a sure way to get an upper hand, but that's about where this logic ends. Maybe in couple years when GW actually makes a stable rule set like they have been trying to with 8th we can have a more reasonable game.

>> No.70771941

>>70771669
>bulkier aliens armor
ftfy bud

>> No.70771947

>>70771074
Looks like shit. No highlights, paint is uneven.

>> No.70771949

>>70771929
Isn’t that one of the tacticool Marines? The whole aesthetic is operator shit instead of sci-fi renaissance painting poses.

>> No.70771956

>>70771862
>using one online vendor instead of another is jumping through hoops

>> No.70771979

>>70771893
I'm pretty sure Ramirez would qualify for the astartes project if he was younger. Fucker was hardcore even without the memes.

>> No.70771983

>>70771745
Classic Nids and GSC are so fun to assemble and paint that you end with a lot without noticing

>> No.70771989

>Space Wolves
>Luna Wolves
The Emperor wasn't the most imaginative dude huh?

>> No.70771996

>>70771929
One of the Necromunda enforcers does that.

>>70771956
>Buying a part of a product that someone opened and cut apart and is now selling bit-by-bit is the same as purchasing model kits

Are you being ntentionally stupid?

>> No.70772002

>>70771989
They named themselves

Could also have pointed at the two sets of Angels and two Iron somethings

>> No.70772016

>>70772002
The Luna Wolves didn't name themselves retard.

>> No.70772018

>>70771983
I'm kinda glad for it, I watched him drop half a grand on ossiarchs once and it was concerning.
Plus I know the genestealers are the ones from Space Hulk so I look forward to seeing those on the table.

All in all it'll be a fun army to play with my flamerspam sisters once I get them going.
Maybe a little less so with my tau, but hey.

>> No.70772030

Was it autism?

>> No.70772033

Gabriel Seth is the most based Chapter Master.

>> No.70772042

>>70771605
sneaking up in my one ton suit of armor.

>> No.70772046

Did everyone forget that we were given a stable ruleset for the first time ever at the beginning of 8th? What’s stopping us from just going back to the indexes and sacrificing some new stuff in exchange for a much more balanced game

>> No.70772054

>>70771933
The "skill" lies with your list, your positioning, and target selection. The success of your decisions relies on playing RNG against the odds of your list. In addition, stratagem are just a component of your list, as they are often determined by your list. I don't think "punch the shooties, shoot the punchies, use big stuff on big things" really counts as so much of a skill as it is a baseline retard check.

>> No.70772062

>>70772030
all astartes are autistic, it's in their geneseed

>> No.70772064

>>70772046
The fact that everyone wants a leg up. Only armies I've seen that have spun out of balance are loyalist marines though.

>> No.70772066

>>70771605
>LOOK AT ALL THE POUCHES!

>> No.70772070

>>70772030
You need to have extremely high testosterone levels to wear a topknot or understand Abaddon's reasons.

>> No.70772082

>>70772064
Did you miss when Knights being fed CP by cheap Guard battalions were ruling the tables?

>> No.70772094

>>70772033
>muh 2A 2W
based Seth

>> No.70772110

>>70772082
Apparently I did. Only have one knights player at my store and shows up maybe once a month, but he never took any detatchment of guard.

>> No.70772121

>>70772046
If I'm not mistaken, Ynnari existed in that same Index phase and became the most broken faction simple because they were Eldar with an extra layer of rules. Now fast forward 3 years and we have marines with additional 2 layers of rules. Maybe GW will figure this out and attach cost to extra abilities like they did with stratagems by next edition or next big rulebook.

>> No.70772127

>>70772066
it's not his fault he grew up at the peak of 90's X-Men

>> No.70772133 [SPOILER] 

>>70772066
Do you even know HOW MUCH SHIT YOU CAN PUT IN POUCHES?
Like grenades and scopes

>> No.70772137

>>70772066
>wojack

>> No.70772146

>>70772046
I dont mind a little imbalance if it means getting cool stuff, but the space marines release was just way over the top.

>> No.70772160

>Chaos space marine should be 2W

>> No.70772165

>>70772160
Yes.

>> No.70772168

>>70771947
>paint is uneven.

This is the biggest problem. Also the gray bits just look unpainted which doesn't help.

>> No.70772189

>>70771862
Yeah!!! Why won't GW sell ot $25 when I can get it for $8 on ebay??
MUH SOURCE

>> No.70772192

>>70772160
all space marines should have 2W, primaris should have 3W

>> No.70772201

>>70771006
is it a tranny?

>> No.70772219

>>70772201
I think they're just ugly

>> No.70772225

>>70772192
Primaris should keep their stat line, they get enough through wargear.

>> No.70772226

Todat this question came and I had no idea how it would work, if someone could help:
I charged my KoS towards a Smash Captain and a Sang. Ancient (FNP aura).
I splitted the attacks of the KoS and resolved the Ancient's first.
It ended up killing him and the opponent used the Only In Death Does Duty End and attacked with the Ancient.
How would it work for the attacks against the Smash Captain if the Ancient were to drop the KoS's Wound bracket?
What would happen if the Ancient would actually kill the KoS, before resolving the Smash Captains attacks (since there is no 0W in the bracket)?
Do models only actually get removed after the KoS all attacks are resolved (and the Smash Captain would still have the Ancient's aura of FNP 5+)? If it's the case is there any reason to choose a sequence of which target gets to get hit first (or it's only to gamble the unknown and for the opponent to predict when rerolling or using strats and stuff)?
Does the Only In Death the Duty Ends model only get to attack after the entire KoS's attacks are resolved?

>> No.70772238

>>70772201
Yeah, the sex change went wrong landing xer in a wheelchair.

>> No.70772243

>>70772160
Are CSM the most cucked faction 40k now?
>abysmal legion traits
>no doctrines or equivalents
>1 wound 1 attack marines
>vehicles get absolutely nothing at all
>demon engines hit on 4s
>cultists without any legion or other benefits while guard get orders and better save for same cost
Seems like you need be a masochist to choose to play this.

>> No.70772244

>>70772226
Your KoS attacks first, then the Ancient but you don't go down a bracket for attacks since damage is taken at the end of the attack phase.

>> No.70772246

>>70772064
>The fact that everyone wants a leg up. Only armies I've seen that have spun out of balance are loyalist marines though.

It's just RG, IH and IF really and I'm sure they'll get points nerfs or hit hard by the FW changes.

Most of the others are perfectly beatable considering that PA is going bring most factions up to a decent level (Grey Knights are looking legit now).

I do feel for Nid players though, Cruddace really has it out for them.

>> No.70772259

>>70772243
Roles were reversed around a year ago with CSM players laughing at Loyalists and it will happen again eventually.

>> No.70772277

https://youtu.be/iS1c_HtvvNo

I keep forgetting Plague is a /tg/ fag

>> No.70772278

>>70772243
Don't forget
>Rules spread over 2 other supplements
>If you want to have decent Legion traits you have to play renegades
>but if you play renegades you give up the best stratagem in the book
>but if you want good stratagems and relics you are forced to use basic legions with garbage traits
It's tiresome.

>> No.70772283

>>70771472
New fag detected

>> No.70772285

>>70772244
After the Ancient gets to fight (Only in death strat), does he still be there to give the FNP aura to the Smash Captain? Or in this specific case, he isn't there anymore and the Captain will be in the mercy of the Keeper of Secrets?

>> No.70772287

>>70772133

>> No.70772293

>>70772285
Since it all technically happens at the same time, the FNP is still there.

>> No.70772295

>>70772278
outdated reminder

>> No.70772301

>>70771842
>It's harder on the 1st or 2nd turn when it's obvious you're gonna lose but still have to keep playing for another hour.
Irrelevant of dice rolls, this. I think this is why I've stopped playing. Games are decided super early, but you're an asshole if you don't smile and get your shirt pushed for the next 2 hours. I can't do it. Being on the winning side isn't a I better, either.

>> No.70772304

>>70772243
>>demon engines hit on 4s
Why are you running daemon engines without a discord lord

>> No.70772308

>>70772295
What's "Super Doctrine"?

>> No.70772316

>>70771842
What? If you're not having fun, just concede.

>> No.70772318

>>70772308
Supplement doctrine bonuses

>> No.70772319

>>70772295
>mathhammer
Kys

>> No.70772320

>>70772295
I'd also advice people look at Battle Sisters Squads, which are better than CSM squads while also being cheaper.

>> No.70772322

>>70772278
Red Corsairs at least get a good relic and enough free CP and extra relics to make up for not having VOTLW. They unironically make a better melee CSM list than World Eaters, just because they actually get to get into combat from advance and charge.

>>70772160
Chosen should at least, so you'd actually have a reason to run them.

>> No.70772324

Can I use the stratagem to give an extra warlord trait and give my chief apothecary a trait from the faith and fury book?

>> No.70772332

>>70771842
If it's obvious you're gonna lose by round 2 just concede and get another game going.

>> No.70772339

>> No.70772345

>>70772304
Because it got shot off the board turn one and you shouldn't need characters to make your shit units playable.

>> No.70772380

>>70772295
>CSM get bolter discipline too
>Now 11ppm
>Some tactics and super doctines are useless for Tac Marines so math should be adjusted

Looking pretty balanced aside from the fact that Tac Marines are considered trash now lol .

>> No.70772383

>>70772304
>just take this 160 point tax to make your garbage units better
>wait why are you taking multiple discord lords instead of your garbage units that it's supposed to buff
>wait why are you taking FW dreads that hit on 2s instead of your garbage codex units like we planned to
based GW

>> No.70772385

>>70772319
You're really greentexting mathhammer?
Thank christ I'm randomly popping in from aosg I'd rather deal with the shitheads from /pol/

>> No.70772404

>>70772385
ignore it. it's same as shark spammers in your threads instead we have "playing game = bad" posters.

>> No.70772412

>>70772383
Reminds me that I need to get some FW dreads. Contemptors or Leviathans to start with?

>> No.70772415

>>70772383
Just wait until they nerf all the hellforged dreads in the new index because "it wouldn't be fair to just nerf the loyalist versions".

>> No.70772419

>>70772243
I think of CSM were able to loot/corrupt loyalist space marines equipment and vehicles it might actually help their lines.

>> No.70772441

>>70772415
I think they just need a rule of 1 for all of the FW dreads.

>> No.70772452

Post games.
Had my DG vs DA 2k match.
Went 2nd but still won because DA dude charged all his bikes and planes into my face, killed one Bloat Drone and a bunch of Poxwalkers. then on my turn I just Plaguespittered a bike unit and the Haulers took care of the other one. Daemon Prince clawed the Darktalon down.
Eventually woulda tabled him so he just called it by round 3.

Had another follow up game where he changed his list up a bit. He did better and I flubbed some parts like forgetting to block his bikes with my Nurglings and forgetting to shoot with my Plague Marines but it ended up in a draw. Highlight is when a Bloat Drone with 1W left simply refused to die, surviving 10 bolter shots and melee combat with a Venerable Dreadnought.

Having 2 Poxbringers for the +1S and +1 damage on 6 wound rolls aura is rather good, and the Arch-contaminator DP with the Helm of Fugaris really pulled his weight with the full wound rerolls on Plague weapons.

>> No.70772458

>>70772404
I was about to say atleast people in the aos threads pretend they play. Guess it was pretty obvious bait.

>> No.70772460

>>70772412
2 Contemptors are extremely versatile and can fit into any list. I'd start there. Leviathans are cool, but would require building around.

>> No.70772472

Leave Grey Knights to me.

>> No.70772479

>>70772412
Leviathan has 16 butcher cannon shots but the Contemptor is a cheap, versatile weapons platform that has BS2+ and can load up on quad las.
Up to you.

>> No.70772490

>>70772419
Hellforged Executioner Repulsor when

>> No.70772499

>>70772412
Las Contemptors are great.

Though you may wish to wait for the new FW rules if you aren't going to be using the model in the next month or two as they could become fancy paperweights.

>> No.70772506

>>70772472
I hope you're ready to get raped by GK's new rules they just got.

>> No.70772518

Can we please have the world Eaters and emperors children releases, GW?

Like, there's no way the world Eaters wouldnt sell like hotcakes, idk why they havent done it yet

Pic semi related.

>> No.70772519

>>70772452
This looks a lot like my DG and I love Poxbringers for the same reasons.

>> No.70772531

>>70772518
Once they are done releasing these Psychic Awakening books with 75% marine/imperium content in each they might consider it.

>> No.70772533

>>70772499
I'd be ok with them making them cheaper if they nerf them. Just let them keep their toughness/wounds. I really only use them as distractions

>> No.70772552

>>70772519
I actually copied someone's list for the 2 Poxbringer and 3 Nurgling battalion. Was that yours? Worked really well.
The poxbringer healing up the vehicles was also pretty great.

>> No.70772556

Although I recently started playing the game I’ve decided that I have to play Tau, and I have to bring triple riptides and drone swarms other you can’t beat SMs.

No, honestly, name a Xenos army besides triptides that stands a fair chance against this shit. You know before playing the game I loved the aesthetic of Chaos and sort of liked Grey Knights. After the last absurd overbuffing of the GK I’d just feel dirty playing them. And Chaos, while still aesthetic as ever only get ass-raped by SMs. I also thought about IG with lots of tanks because that’s also cool...just to learn that they’re a joke and get deleted instantly by SMs. In fact in most cases vehicles get deleted immediately by SMs so there’s no reason to bring them. So...it has to be Tau only because they can abuse the shit out of Savior Protocol.

What else are you supposed to do? Just play SM? Play what you want and learn to love the experience of being deleted?

>> No.70772564

>>70772246
Wait a minute,are you reall telling me that robin the "menace" cruddace wrote the 8th edition tyranid codex and had his hands in blood of baal,since there arent any writers credited anymore in the books and their new options are lackluster at best?

>> No.70772581

>>70772380
The point of this isn't that tac marines are super good. It's to show how fucking terrible Chaos Space Marines are.

>> No.70772587

>>70772556
How many tanks are you bringing senpai
If you have 6 cheap as shit tanks he can't kill them all in 1 turn
Just play brainless gunline cadian and play shooting gallery

>> No.70772594

>>70772533
I think the implication was that points might not change, just rules. I could see them going to BS3+ or losing their FNP personally.

>>70772556
Eldar does just fine against new Marines. GSC can compete too if you aren't playing ITC. Other Xenos factions will get buffed with PA.

>>70772564
Cruddace is the head honcho in GW's rules department now IIRC so in theory, it all goes through him at some point.

>> No.70772595

Fuck primaris. Kill them where they stand and deliver their heads to guilliman in gift boxes

>> No.70772613

>>70772594
But Hellforged Leviathans and Contemptors have no FNP

>> No.70772618

>>70772552
Could be since I post about nurgle stuff every once in a while with lists, but it's far from original idea. Glad it's working for you as well though.

>> No.70772624

>>70772066
>dumb wojack poster replying to obvious bait
classic

>> No.70772633

>>70772506
They're not really all that rapey

>> No.70772634

>> No.70772636

How are new SOB? Do the Miracle Dice pay off?

>> No.70772646

>>70772556
Dark Eldar roll over SM like a shit-covered bulldozer. Disintegrator spam on boats and jets with Flayed Skull is very fucking hard to deal with, ignores cover, AP-4 D2 shots fucking everywhere. It pretty much tables my Primaris force in 2 turns if I go second.

>> No.70772655

>>70772452
>Post games
Was supposed to have the final or last before final matches with my Orks vs Eldar and DG in a campaign tomorrow, but looks like thats been rainchecked, so heres a picture from a previous game

>> No.70772658

>>70772634
Me to the left of horus.

>> No.70772660

>>70772613
Oh right, that would seem a fair nerf then to leave Hellforged untouched and hit the Relic versions.

>> No.70772680

>>70772518
What eaters? Who's children? Are they loyalist marines? If not, get fucked.

>> No.70772681

>>70772658
That's Red Angel from that one heresy book about BA.

>> No.70772695

>>70772283
that’sthejoke.pdf

>> No.70772709

>>70772680
This, Games Workshop STILL need to release:

>Primaris Bikes
>Primaris Landspeeders
>Primaris Predators
>Primaris Hellfuries

Plus new Primaris models for the new Forgeworld books. PLUS anything else they haven't leaked.

Please wait your turn.

>> No.70772717

>>70772594
Just kill me now,they literally gave the most crucial position to the most incompetent and asinine man in the company

>> No.70772728

>>70772556
Welcome to the Necron Experience as well. You best put 450 points into Doom-Something or else you're fucked and it basically deletes fancy shit with lots of S10 wounds.

>> No.70772734

>>70772452
That looks awesome and looks like an awesome list you've made. I'm newer to Death Guard and looking at what to buy next and some Nurgle Daemons and Poxbringers seem great, alongside more PBCs. I had a super fun game against Dark Eldar.

I brought 6 Blight Haulers to see how they would do on damage output and they did not disappoint. He tied up one squad of 3 Blight Haulers with multiple Venoms and kept staggering how they came in, but they did a great job of eating a Venom every turn. Typhus was a beast all game smacking around Wracks and those pain engines and various characters. Since I ran dual battalions I had command points to use things I never do, like healing Typhus D3 wounds and doing that once per game mortal wound explosion with him. Tallyman was MVP as always with Arch Contaminator and the Fugaris Helm. He may not be tough or hard hitting himself, but he gave out a great bubble of making my Poxwalkers, Typhus and the Blight Haulers fight significantly better.

Sadly I lost on points, 17-20. It was a decently close game, but I had a full turn of cards I couldn't get and I forgot some of my rules and just played poorly some places. He said his list was designed to get points and not be super killy, so that's probably the only reason the game went as well as it did for me since I still lost a ton of stuff. Ravagers are scary. The thing I need to work on is when to use my Daemon Prince. I held him back all game, waiting to use him as a counter assault, and then I played him poorly and he killed 1 thing then died. I think next time I'm going to move him up with the Bloat Drones.

>> No.70772737

>>70772320
How, exactly?

>> No.70772748

>>70772646
Is that why they did so well at LVO?

>> No.70772811

>>70772737
Cheaper, Acts of Faith, Sacred Rites, Shield of Faith, better Orders than CSM have Legion Traits, more utility since they can give you Miracle Dice back, banner has a better effect than any of the Chaos Icons and better support units.

>> No.70772830

>>70772811
Did you forget S and T 3 to balance those things out? I agree that those are all better tho'.

>> No.70772831

>>70772811
Plus with Valourous Heart conviction supported by Imagifier auras, they ignore AP2 and have a 6+++.

>> No.70772849

Taking modern lore into consideration, why would Sisters of Battle end up fighting Primaris Marines? The Ecclesiarchy seems to be on good terms with both Cawl and Guilliman, at least their only living saint is pals with them.

>> No.70772860

>>70772830
That's true, but the 3+ save makes the Toughness difference moot if a CSM squad and a Sisters squad shot at each other.

>> No.70772867

>>70772830
I never felt like Toughness mattered that much until I started playing Death Guard and seeing just how much T5 makes a difference.

>> No.70772882

>>70772748
Iron Hands spam is not baseline SM. 5+ overwatch, the ability to heal vehicles, pass off wounds and save 1/3 of everything on a giant damaging infantry horde is another level of fuckery entirely.
Playing against IH is like playing against Tau and DE wearing power armour and giving each other handjobs under the table.

>> No.70772885

>> No.70772886

Necrons!

>> No.70772897

>>70772811
>pretty sisters
What is this patriarchal crap?
This isn't some 1960's homemaking appliance commercial, you dinosaur.

>> No.70772919

>>70772849

Well, the SOB have famously bad relations with some space marine chapters (For example, the Flesh Tearers). So Primaris Marines from a chapter with a bad history with the SOB could end up in a fight with them. Then there is the always good goto: Imperial Dickwaving. Marines Want Something, SOB Want The Same Thing. It turns violent. For example, a holy relic sacred to a marine chapter might also be sacred to the Ecclessiarchy (The Primarchs are saints, after all).

>> No.70772939

>>70771756
>tau
the absolute fucking state of tranny-obsessed schizos

>> No.70772945

>>70772897
Come on. Some of them are pretty cute. Also, GW tends to use the wokest heads on their minis to gain good boy points.

>> No.70772957

>>70772882
>Iron Hands spam is not baseline SM.
Oh, but it is because factions don't matter anymore. Every Marine is iron hands whether they're blue, red, green, or whatever.

>> No.70772982

>>70772882
>Iron Hands spam is not baseline SM
No, Imperial Fists are with absolutely absurd amounts of shooting at long ranges while also sniping every character with no risk.

>> No.70772997

>>70772957
My point being playing against any other SM faction BUT Iron Hands will result in a lot of dead marines. There are still players out there who don't want to play IH because it's just fucking demoralising for your opponent.

>> No.70772998

What will happen when the Tau AI rise up?

>> No.70773001

I had a dream that my paintjobs were awful, full of brushmarks and thickened paint. Then I woke up and the paint was thin at least.

>> No.70773023

>>70772998
The tau are too insignificant for their AI to get that collectively powerful.

>> No.70773027

>>70772997
So your army is good if your opponent purposefully gimps himself

>> No.70773029

>>70772982
>Imperial Fists
>especially good at sniping characters

Are you thinking of Raven Guard/Raptors?

>> No.70773034

>>70772867
T5 is a huge breakpoint since it means that almost every heavy hitting weapon will wound you on a 3 at best. Most small arms fire is also around S4 so they'll wound you on a 5.

>> No.70773035

>>70772882
>5+ overwatch

4+ with a 1 CP strat.

The IH supplement was a disgrace - they got the best of everyone's rules in a package that encourages them to castle in a corner and leafblow everything off the board while they are invincible due to Saviour Protocol 2.0, super overwatch and TFC madness. Plus free FNP. Plus no penalty for moving with heavy weapons IN DEVASTAOR PHASE. Plus OP vehicle healing. Plus free reroll 1s. And I haven't even mentioned release Feiros yet.

At least the RG one encouraged aggressive and smart play even if it allowed for degenerate alpha strikes.

>> No.70773036

>>70772998
Delete ethereals, greater good is led according to its actual ideals instead of a totalitarian regime concealed behind a curtain of propaganda, chaos ruins it completely as soon as they catch on.

>> No.70773041

>>70772982
That's Raven Guard.
IF just deletes your vehicles effortlessly.

>> No.70773055

>>70772867
Its why I love the heavier Necron Infantry like Lychguard and Destroyers. 10 T5 guys with 2 wounds that get back up to full on a 5+ every turn are very hard to remove from the table.

>> No.70773063

>>70773029
>>70773041
Fists also can do this. Primaris Eliminators are too good.

>> No.70773081

>>70772734
Blight Haulers are great after the repeated point drops.
Plaguebursts are also another staple. The mortar is a bonus actually, what you want to do is to load them with plaguespitters and trundle up the board to annoy the shit out of frontlines.
140pts for a 12W T8 3+ 5+ 5+FNP with a decent weapon loadout is top value.

>> No.70773103

>>70773063
Thankfully no one at my local GW plays these cancerous lists. If they do I'll probably humor them once then never play them again.

>> No.70773121

>>70772867

As someone who plays SOB, you really notice that T3 when it comes to small arms fire. Being wounded on 3+ instead of 4+ adds up to a lot more wounds and requiring S6 for 2+ over S8 hurts a lot with light anti-tank weapons/plasma. It's only really the biggest guns where you stop noticing it.

>> No.70773210

>>70772452
Oh, I forgot another highlight.
After my drones spit all over his hellblasters there was only one left, so I charged him with my Nurglings. He had nothing left to lose, so he overcharged on overwatch.... and rolled a 1 with no rerolls.
The image of a hellblaster blowing himself up in a panic as a bunch of Nurglings charged him was amusing, to say the least.

>> No.70773224

>>70771756
>caste of tau

>> No.70773243

>>70772624
Worked

>> No.70773252

what are the best units Imp fists can take?

>> No.70773265

>>70773252
Bolter cents

>> No.70773295

How are Ad-Mech doing these days? It's one of the factions that, rules wise at least, I never really see anyone bitching about here, good or bad. They just kinda *are*, nothing more said.

>> No.70773316

>>70773252
Bolter Cents, TFCs, SBR intercessors, and even the Predator with autocannon and bolter sponsons isn't bad. Elims too because they're nuts, plus those phobos marines who cancel deep strikes.

>> No.70773317

>>70771926
nothing that humans can think of isn't natural, since it occurred in their natural brain.

>> No.70773327

>>70773295
They're necrons with the <IMPERIUM> keyword.
Gunline is sorta viable, the fun units are not.

A bit of a chore to paint.

>> No.70773332

>>70772860
>Sisters wound on 4+
>CSM wound on 3+
>Toughness difference moot
???

>>70772831
But I want to use Bloody Rose :(

>> No.70773338

>>70773317
No.
I am using Nature to refer to the other, to the NOT ME, because the Nature and the ME are separate and distinct. This does mean that the body is part of Nature however.

>> No.70773355

>>70772133
Do retards really think 3 pouches is a lot?

>> No.70773356

>>70773332
>getting into close combat
>with your shooty unit
Fucking why? You don't even want to get in melee with your csm squads either since they are fucking horrible in cqc.

>> No.70773364

>>70772201
the photo is from plebbit, where OP lurks i bet.
Lady's got arthritis, and it got worse after pregnancy.

>> No.70773372

>>70771490
You could do Seeker Missile spam with Tanks, Skyrays, and Bombers.

>> No.70773377

New to 40k and wondering if Death Guard are a good option for new players. They looks really difficult to paint with all those bones and shit.

>> No.70773383

>>70773338
oh, a catholic. My apologies and condolences

>> No.70773411

>>70773377
Nudeathguard are painted with contrast paint and washes so they're pretty noob friendly.

>> No.70773415

>>70773316
what about elims makes them crazy? could agressors replace cents if Im trying to make a primaris fluff successor chapter. I know they don't get bolter discipline but can still put out a huge amount of shots.

>> No.70773426

>>70773411
Nice to know the coolest army is noob friendly

>> No.70773437

>>70773415
Snipes out your key characters ez pz
You'd probably need 2 units to be effective though.
Aggressors are mostly a short range unit.

>> No.70773455

>>70773364
It takes some serious balls to propagate your lineage even when you know it has (considerably higher than average) risk of fucking you up.

>> No.70773482

>GWs Tournament Tabletop Standard is literally just painting models like the examples frim the starter painting sets

Well that means all my stuff will be legal

>> No.70773488

>>70773081
PBCs do seem good. I've only used 1 and it sucked every time because people just tied it up over and over which is why I tend to like the Drones more. That said I think PBC need to be taken with 3 to really work.

>> No.70773493

>>70773356
>Sisters wound on 4+ while shooting
>CSM wound on 3+ while shooting
>Toughness difference moot
???

>> No.70773503

>>70773356

That's not the melee numbers. The melee numbers would be Marines wounding on 3+, SOB wounding on 5+.

>> No.70773509

>>70771246
Your a contrast paint human

>> No.70773512

>>70773377
They have a lot of detail for sure but you just need to gloss over most of it. You can be really sloppy with Death Guard. Rules wise they are decent but you will struggle. Build lists to last, bring lots of infantry and daemon engines and focus on just not dying, that's how you will win.

>> No.70773573

>>70772070
Poofters bridal gives the imperium something to hold onto while they blast his anus for the umpteenth time

>> No.70773577

>>70773493
Yes, because you can get more Sisters than you can CSM. They are cheaper with more to them.

>> No.70773581

>>70773377
Death guard are easy as fuck. In general anything that is meant to be ugly/disgusting in lore gives you more leeway in being sloppy on the model.

>> No.70773605

>>70773252
SBR Intercessors, Centurion Devastators with Hurricane/Heavy Bolters, Thunderfire Cannons, some planes.

>> No.70773612

it's hilarious how shit citadel spray is

>> No.70773625

>>70773426
Yep and Contrasts actually look pretty good on them for contrast paintjobs. Paint their armor some kind of green, their fleshy bits some kind of semivibrant flesh contrast. Then you put your metallics on, rust them up to taste and wash the model with green black and brown washes erratically for a splotchy look.

>> No.70773645

>>70773612
I think its the accelerant mix they use. Its some awful proprietary blend that no one in the big boy spray paint industry uses and then they have to go and jack up the price to 3-4 times that of Rustoleum because its Citadel pigments.

>> No.70773652

>>70773488
Yeah, I've been playing with singular models until recently when I got multiples of a certain unit. Really improves my list performance.

Also, just use Plaguespitters on the PBC, the mortar and pintle gun are a bonus. Its main purpose is to get in the face of your opponent/absorb overwatch as you charge it in.

>> No.70773674

>>70772830
I would argue Sisters are still about 1ppm overcosted.

>> No.70773688

>>70773377
do this for their loincloths
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cK97CLGFwY4
adds a whole new dimension

>> No.70773704

>>70772831
The dominant meta force now has AP-3 basic guns.

>> No.70773717

>>70773674
Yah you notice that with non battle sisters
Paying 10 to 11 points for basically a worst tactical marine is silly

>> No.70773752

>>70771074
Poor choice of contrasts for a flat model like eldar. Looks splotchy, the grey looks like bare plastic. There's no real effort into any kind of layering or shading or highlighting. The nuln oil wash is rather ugly looking on the flat surfaces. Arguably salvageable with some subsequent layering to also hide the uglier bits but the paintscheme is also not very pleasing. It would have looked better perhaps if there was a single dominant color or if the color breakdown was more dynamic and interesting rather than blocky. 3/10.

>> No.70773760

>>70773752
bro, now that contrast is out, 99% of the paintfags will only use contrast for everything.

>> No.70773793

>>70771756
Imagine being so obsessed about trannies you cant even look at a mini properly.

>> No.70773804

>>70773752
>Poor choice of contrasts for a flat model like eldar.
Gw told him to use contrast for everything, the 40kfags also hype this painting method.
>Looks splotchy, the grey looks like bare plastic.There's no real effort into any kind of layering or shading or highlighting.
Because they don't use layers or base, they spray then contrast. When the contrast is there they don't know what to do anymore.

>> No.70773819

>The contrast meme

>> No.70773826

>>70772452
Human soup v T’au

>> No.70773828

>>70771756
but trannies belong with Slaanesh

>> No.70773851

so you're telling me aosfags get all this khorne shit and we can't even get some god damn world eaters

>> No.70773863

>cult legions and god specific daemons aren't one faction
Why is this?

>> No.70773874

>>70773819
seems fine to me.

>> No.70773900

>>70773863
because GW's 40k rules team has no fucking clue how to do 40k

Reminder that AoS has sensible faction rules which don't eliminate soup, but actually reward you for not souping. Reminder that the 40k rules team took those rules, and implemented them in detachments, which ensured soup would be the meta for all time.

>> No.70773910

>>70772634
this pic makes me, an imperial fag that was a chaosfag for most of my life, want to go back to chaos.

but then I remember how shit chaos is now-a-days

>> No.70773911

>>70773804
I miss the days of base/wash/highlight when GW actually gave a damn about teaching people how to easily do a proper paintjob rather than just focusing on cheating every aspect of the hobby for less impressive results.

>> No.70773923

>>70772634
who is that wormy fuck with the bat face and four arms? ya know, the one next to fulgrim.

>> No.70773930

>>70773911
Sorry but I play to win and a nice paint job isn't part of that. Have fun getting wrecked at tournaments scrub.

>> No.70773931

>>70773819
looks pretty good

>> No.70773935

>>70773900
>Reminder that AoS has sensible faction rules which don't eliminate soup, but actually reward you for not souping
Which is funny when the original version was basically build on the idea of soup, meanwhile 40k which was always built on factions got the soup push.

>> No.70773964

>go to event where there's GW employees all over
>80% of my army is recasts
>nobody can tell the difference between recast and GW quality so I get away with it scot free

>> No.70773973

>>70773851
WE werent the poster bad guys for this edition.

>> No.70773976

>>70773900
>Reminder that AoS has sensible faction rules which don't eliminate soup, but actually reward you for not souping. Reminder that the 40k rules team took those rules, and implemented them in detachments, which ensured soup would be the meta for all time.

Nigger, are you aware that if SM are dominating the meta is because they get huge buff for being solo SM ?

>> No.70773979

would it be canon to paint an entire mixed daemon legion in the same colors?

>> No.70773986

>>70773964
A long time friend of mine who works at GW still buy recast for anything FW

>> No.70773991

>>70773964
not sure if this is talking about how good the recaster is or how shit the gw minis are.

>> No.70774000

What if this comes back?

>> No.70774005

>>70773991
Yes

>> No.70774016

>>70774000
Then Horde armies dominate everything.
Enjoy IG/Orks/Terma hitting on 3+ re rolling 1

>> No.70774017

>>70773863
Khorne Daemonkin used to be a thing and it was fucking awesome, but it existed for like less than half a year before GW moved onto 8th.

>> No.70774027

>>70774016
Then we bring back old Soft Cover gives -1, Hard Cover gives -2 to hit.

>> No.70774035

>>70773964
>Have a recast HQ
>Geedubs manager says "wow that's a pretty nice paint job"
>mfw

>> No.70774041

>>70771660
Crash his ship with two survivors, then calmly walk away from the wreck.

>> No.70774043

>>70772419
What Chaos Space Marines need, is flat out a complete refocus of their rules.

I would be fine with regular Chaos Space Marines being trashy tacticals; Those dudes are just rogue space marines, nothing to write home about.

However, VETERANS OF THE LONG WAR, the dudes who have been fighting the good fight for 10.000 fucking years shouldn't be the same models on the tabletop as regular chaos space marines. They should be BETTER than regular Space Marines; 2 Attacks, LD9 and some old Veteran skills like Infiltration, Tank Hunters etc.

GW more or less fixed the biggest issue the faction had since 4th ed; Legions only being paintjobs. That was fixed by giving them individual Legion Traits (they fucking suck, but the idea is in the right place) and the supplementary content in campaign books. Yes, I would've been happier with actual Supplements or codices, but I'm okay with the amount I get.

Now GW needs to adress that Chaos Space Marines are overpaying for everything; Cultists are WORSE Guardsmen point-for-point, Chaos Space Marines are worse tacticals point-for-point, Chaos Lords are worse than Captains, Sorcerers are worse than Librarians, all the tanks are worse in every single way and so on.

I'm okay with Obliterators being shitty Centurions with random numbers and Havocs not having sacrificial body donors; At least those units FEEL different when playing with them. Most of the other stuff in the CSM books is just the same shit loyalists get. but with less rules for the same price and generally less/worse gear options. Chaos Marks not doing shit is mostly responsible here.

This is exactly why I think giving Chaos Space Marines doctrines would be a mistake; I don't want the same thing Loyalists get, I want something strong that's also fluffy and different. So instead of getting a broken reward for only playing Codex CSM, I would prefer a strong reward for playing the entire army under one chaos mark, like Khorne, Nurgle or Undivided even

>> No.70774044

>>70773991
A little from column A, a little from column B.

>> No.70774049

>>70774027
>Then we bring back old Soft Cover gives -1, Hard Cover gives -2 to hit.
so you get the exact same thing as of today but instead you have to check for range for every units ?
Just play 8th at this point.
Use UrbanConquest / cities of death rules if you want a tweaked ruleset.

>> No.70774050

>>70773964
who is the recaster?

>> No.70774062

>>70774050
Nice try GW

>> No.70774064

>>70774027
most player play on planet bowling ball so...

>> No.70774068

>>70774049
Don't forget endless arguments on whether more than 25% of the model is covered but less than 50%, or if over 50% of the model is behind cover.

>> No.70774075

>>70774050
There is one that have been operating for 3-4 months that is unironically located in Nothingam.

>> No.70774079

>>70773986
When 70 dollar kits are 22 bucks from China I don't blame them

>> No.70774084

>>70774068
TBF i don't care about the oldhammer rules coming back fanfic, we've been playing CoD for a decade.

>> No.70774087

>>70774075
who is it??

>> No.70774100

>>70773874
>>70773931
Just proving the point that Contrast works good on organic surfaces and looks like shit on huge flat surfaces.

>> No.70774112

>>70773964
>>70773991
As long as you paint the mini decently no one can tell.

>> No.70774118

>>70773986
yeah nobody actually buys from forgeworld, recast quality is usually on par or better and is like 60%-70% off. Sucks that fagworld discontinues a lot of their models too so you basically are forced into going to recasters for them

>> No.70774120

>>70773819
Contrast may as well be renamed to "Organics"

>> No.70774125

>>70774043
>the dudes who have been fighting the good fight for 10.000 fucking years
Due to time passing differently in the Warp, they've not actually got 10,000 years of experience.

>> No.70774127

>>70773819
I wish GW put a disk or something under the feet of all their minis standing on one foot/running. Keeping some of these fucks on their bases is a pain in the ass.

>> No.70774148

>>70772634
Never noticed the guy on fire was a Blood Angel being tortured,I always thought it was just some random traitor marine.

>> No.70774152

>>70772945
yeah it was kinda surreal getting a box of sisters expecting to give all of them helmets and finding out there were a surprising amount of good face sculpts they just hadn't shown off.

>> No.70774158

>>70772030

A miserable pile of spergery. BUT ENOUGH TALK! Have at you!

>> No.70774159

>>70774125
Imagine being a chaos cuck.

You fight in realspace, get your ass handed to you, enter the warp to escape

you recoup and think "haha, those loyalists will be weak when we return"

You return, and warp hasn't been in your favor and now the marines have Primaris and you still have horus heresy era plasma guns

FUCKING >LOL<

>> No.70774163

>>70773976
Yeah that's the issue, they're the only faction with it.

>> No.70774164

>>70774064
That pic makes me want to quit the hobby. I'm fucking glad that every guard player around here has an awesome painted army, and the only crime I've seen them commit is infantry spam.

>> No.70774166

>>70774118
The only real benefit of Forgeworld over recasters is the easier returns process if they send you a fucked mini, like a serious mold slip or something.

>> No.70774168

>>70774087
anon nobody is gonna give away the exact info of their recasters. They might give away hints but that's all. It's up to you to find them yourself. I suggest checking out aliexpress in the meantime, they got a few decent quality recasters on there that are easy to find

>> No.70774180

>>70774043
Careful now, you're getting dangerously close to suggesting good rules for non-Imperial marines here.

>> No.70774188

>>70774100
It's still very inferior to non wash.

>> No.70774201

>>70774159

Imagine being an imperial cuck. You sit there and accept the shitty status quo that only wins fights because of its inertia. The guys who said your empire was a mistake but lost keep coming back every few thousand years and discover that your continued decline only proves them right time and time again.

>> No.70774211

>>70774201
Imagine being deluded

>> No.70774222

>>70771006
What should I field for Sisters if I don't want any of the weird bondage units?

>> No.70774223

>>70774168
>anon nobody is gonna give away the exact info of their recasters. They might give away hints but that's all. It's up to you to find them yourself
the fuck are you talking about? People usually give full info about their recasters here, don't be a stingy nigger.

>> No.70774231

>>70774159
Then you think to yourself;

"Ok, so we're not that much more experienced and now they've got supermarines, but at least we have daemons as Warp-allies!"

only to hear;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SmD6tIJu5c

and pic related to show up.

>> No.70774237

>>70774223
t. GW

>> No.70774254

>>70774159
>horus heresy era plasma guns
Anon......those are far more reliable than modern plasma guns....

>> No.70774267

>>70774237
recasters aren't some closely guarded business with secret handshakes dude, GW don't need to scour threads on /tg/ to find them. They can easily just throw out C&D's to any they find themselves.

>> No.70774285

>>70774231
>LOTD

Squatted

>> No.70774310

>>70774254
>Plasma Weapons which could be carried and used by a Space Marine Legionary in Power Armour were still prone to overheating and leaking energised plasma onto their unfortunate users. Nonetheless the devastating power of plasma weaponry made it too potent to abandon and many Space Marine Legions utilised it in a limited fashion anyway. In the dark days of the Heresy itself, the desperate need for ever more potent armaments pushed early Plasma Weapons to the battle front more and more, regardless of the risks involved.

>Towards the end of the Heresy, the Tech-priests of Mars solved the immediate problems of Plasma Weapons. By slowing the recharge mode of the weapons, they found they could maintain the integrity of the magnetic field containing the energising plasma. This prevented catastrophic leaks detonating the whole weapons. The slower recharge cycle also meant that overheating was kept to a minimum by the weapon's coolant system.

>The resulting Plasma Weapons were relatively safe and reliable, but suffered from a slow recharge rate which limited their effectiveness. Space Marine commanders were far from happy at the compromise but the number of catastrophic meltdowns experienced with the older weapons made Plasma Weapons too dangerous for the Space Marine Legions to continue using otherwise.

>As doctrine within the Mechanicum changed, the old-style, less reliable Plasma Weapons were branded Fabrus Excommunicata, engines of destruction that had fallen from the approval of the Machine God. Within a few centuries, early Plasma Weapons had entirely disappeared. Such a light of reason has never shone over the Traitor Legions. They still maintain and use the old, dangerous Plasma Weapons

tl;dr Traitor Legion plasmaguns a shit

>> No.70774328

>>70772452

>> No.70774333

>>70773760
>>70773804
>>70773911
the fuck are you guys talking about? Most painters still use classic methods, as do GW tutorials. They still do only contrast painting vids but it's long been the consensus that contrast is only useful in certain methods. Only little timmy and painting noobs slap the stuff on willy nilly to get a painted figure on the table asap.

>> No.70774336

>>70771350
But how can a virgin be a rapist?

>> No.70774347

>>70774267
>They can easily just throw out C&D's to any they find themselves.
Which is why most of them are in China or Russia where that shit isn't taken seriously if it comes from a foreign country.

>> No.70774354

>>70774336
He rapes with his eyes.

>> No.70774367

>>70774354
based, sex having is so easy

>> No.70774373

>>70774354
certainly gives a new meaning to the term cockeyed

>> No.70774382

>>70774231
>he doesnt know

>> No.70774385

>>70774347
right, so what's the problem with divulging their details then?

>> No.70774388

>>70771074
Is that contrast? wtf bros a color primer and some washes with some metallic details aint hard, why people do this?

>> No.70774394

>>70774333
>Only little timmy and painting noobs slap the stuff on willy nilly to get a painted figure on the table asap.
Honestly I think that is their only real utility. I mean, you *can* use contrasts in a high quality paint job but I haven't seen a single case where the same result or better couldn't have been achieved via conventional methods. Even existing "quick" methods like just basecoating white or light colour then washing and calling it a day at that generally produces a nicer final product because you have more control over where the wash flows/settles than you do with contrasts.

They're to give people with little or no interest in spending hours painting an option other than running grey-tide/basecoated armies and not much else, imo.

>> No.70774397

>>70774333
Most people who have been in this hobby since 2015ish and earlier sure. I see a lot of new painters just buying 3-4 contrast paints and calling it a day for their scheme.

>> No.70774405

Chaos, though cool, treats it's players like retarded suckers... and the Chaosfags still eat that shit up. They will buy the overpriced minis (tfw normal csm cost more then rubrics or plague marines), eat up the shitty books, and still support their abused faction. Shit like this is why I left chaos.

>> No.70774410

Soon

>> No.70774425

>>70774385
Following the reply chain back up, it seems the recaster in question in this particular case is allegedly based in the UK. Where C&Ds ARE taken seriously.

Like if the police have a choice between kicking your door in for plastic (resin) army men piracy or investigating some serial nonce, it'll be you in the dock explaining why you were making copies of contemptor dreadnoughts in your garage.

>> No.70774428

>>70774405
>tfw normal csm cost more then rubrics or plague marines
Well yeah anon they are newer.

>> No.70774437

>>70774382
k-know what?

>> No.70774447

>daemons
>orks
>flesh
>skeletons/skulls
>applying over metallics to make shiny colored metals
these are the only uses for contrast paints

>> No.70774450

>>70774425
This. Intellectual piracy is easy for police and looks good when they bag people.

>> No.70774456

>> No.70774461

>>70774394
I think it's less that they're not useful for anything else, it's just their uses haven't been found. I tried contrast, but found it just looked cartoony so I wasn't a fan. however, I've found that black templar is pretty decent for coloring dried base paint, as you don't need to thin it down as much. Also flesh tearer's red gives a decent red leather look. Basically, contrasts are heavier washes and you get your best results when you treat them as such.

>> No.70774480

>>70774425
fair enough. I didn't even follow the thread tbqh

>> No.70774490

What faction has the sexiest models?

>> No.70774497

>>70774437
LOTD are squatted. Its official. Their models are no more, their rules have been "legends"-ised, and they make no appearance in any lore. They have gotten the full squat treatment.

>> No.70774500

>>70774490
GSC

>> No.70774520

>>70774497
>and they make no appearance in any lore.
They just got a book.

>> No.70774525

>>70774490
Adepta Sororitas

>> No.70774534

>>70774043
>I'm okay with Obliterators being shitty Centurions with random numbers
But they were 10x more fun and fluffy when they could just use any weapon they wanted.

>> No.70774543

>>70774397
>I see a lot of new painters just buying 3-4 contrast paints and calling it a day for their scheme
even ignoring "muh anecdote", those would be the painting noobs, they'll likely go to classic eventually as imo it's actually easier and gets much better results. Still even if not it's a slim margin of people and doesn't justify the "contrast is the end of painting as we know it!" rhetoric those bozos are spewing. After all, the basic painting starter set GW still do are all base, shade, and layer paints.

>> No.70774547

>>70774461
I tried painting Kabalite armour with it, in red, wraithbone base, which I thought would look alright, bright colour, Kabalites have loads of ridges, recessed detail. It was ok but looked low-effort compared to the way I normally do them so I went back to that. I think you're right in saying they're basically just heavy washes.

>> No.70774548

>>70774490
Grey Knights

>> No.70774556

>>70774405
At the end of the day, you're still collecting models and most people think the stuff they release for Chaos is cool despite the rules.

>> No.70774558

>>70774520
What book?

>> No.70774566

>>70774490

>> No.70774581

>>70774558

>> No.70774593

>>70774566
we have a winner

>> No.70774600

>>70774490
What do you mean as in sexy? If you mean, like, really good looking and well made models, then either GSC, SoB or Deldar.

>> No.70774604

>>70774490
Guard. Basilisks with their very large barrels, manticores with their amazing rockets, manticores with big throbbing missiles waiting to explode.

>> No.70774606

>>70774581
I listened to the audio drama version in bed and have never felt less scared in my life. I literally fell asleep.

>> No.70774611

>>70774543
You were the one pushing anecdotes first, I'd recommend you not act smarmy about them.

>> No.70774625

>>70774600
>SoB
>Sexy
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

>> No.70774635

>>70774016
Main thing I wanted was the malus on long range. -1/2 to hit turn 1~2 to lessen the shooting bias.

>> No.70774638

>>70774125
Some of them will have more.

>> No.70774639

>>70774397
> I see a lot of new painters just buying 3-4 contrast paints and calling it a day for their scheme.
I mean, this is better than the usual *buys can of Chaos Black* and never moves past basecoating their army.

>> No.70774643

>>70774611
How was I pushing anecdotes? It's the general consensus that classic methods are dominant, just look at the GW site, reddit, the fact that the classic painting vids get way more views, likes, and less dislikes than the contrast method ones. You're the ones getting your panties in a twist over one model saying that everyone uses contrast, with your only defense being an anecdote.

>> No.70774648

>>70774625
1. gw paint schemes are notorious for making faces look worse then they actually are
2. I was talking about how good the models look, not wether or not they will make you coom. SoB have some genuinly really well made models.

>> No.70774649

>>70774450
Don't forget all the dangerous high-capacity assault tools they'll be able to take off the streets in such a raid.

>> No.70774651

>>70774600
both/either

>> No.70774652

GSC is not fun to play against. Its impossible to build a fun to play against GSC list because all of their units and rules are designed for WAAC.

>> No.70774654

>>70774625

>> No.70774668

>>70774652
Just play marines LMAO.

>> No.70774670

>>70774652
What is the soispeak?

>> No.70774674

>>70774625
try posting the non 'eavy metal ones. I have to say after seeing months of tranny sister posting it was hilarious seeing people posting actually good looking sisters and the same fags having to reach to call it ugly.

>> No.70774678

>>70774654
sad but true
people dont want hardened, zealous, batshit crazy battle nuns
They want strippers in fetish outfits.

>> No.70774687

>>70774643
>Only little timmy and painting noobs slap the stuff on willy nilly to get a painted figure on the table asap
You essentially used the exact same kind of anecdote I used and we're disagreeing on the extent its in the hobby.

>> No.70774694

>>70774674
Every single amalia I've seen looked like complete ass, and I like the shaved sister so you can't call me an incel

>> No.70774702

>>70774678
I want both. Ugly models are never good
If I wanted ugly I’d look at my wife

>> No.70774706

>>70774687
do you know what an anecdote even is? Don't use words you don't understand retard.

>> No.70774718

>>70774706
Oh please stop throwing a tantrum now. I don't see why you're getting upset over this. Are you a contrast painter?

>> No.70774764

>>70774649
>"Two tubes of glue sir? This is more than anyone could realistically need for personal use surely? Better write you up for distributing narcotics you glue sniffer"
>"And this sir? A "hobby knife"? Looks like a fixed bladed weapon to me sir, that'll be possession of a deadly weapon."
>"And...well, well, well, what is this? A tiny, tiny drill. Only one use for that sort of thing in my experience: lockbreaking. Looks like we've got a career criminal here lads"
>"CID just got back to us on this guy's background check Sarge, no photos of himself online, no social media, nothing, not even a twitter account. He must have scrubbed everything..."
>"Dear god, must be deep into organised crime to be that prepared. Book 'im, this'll fill about 10% of our CPS quota for this month alone. "
>"To think, if he hadn't made the mistake of dealing in illicit copies of tiny plastic army men, we might never have caught him, he'd be out there, on the streets, a menace to the community..."

>> No.70774766

>>70771402
I get the meaning behind the blue armor, but goddamn do codex compliant librarians look fucking weird, the bright blue almost never looks good on non-blue chapters.

>> No.70774767

>>70774718
the fuck are you talking about? All I've done is pointed out to you that what you said is an anecdote isn't one? Why are you trying to paint me as angry and unreasonable? If anything you're the one who got upset when I tore apart your anecdote.

>> No.70774770

>>70774702
>boomer humor
ew

>> No.70774774

Opinion: As a Guard player, my artillery should be able to shoot into combats.

>> No.70774780

>>70774766
what do you think about techmarines
because I kinda feel that way about them

>> No.70774795

>>70774767
You're being confrontational and belligerent. You're acting like you're losing the argument and are lashing out at me trying to find some kind of victory. Every time you've responded to me you've acted like I insulted your mother. Good god.

>> No.70774809

>when there's a raging autistic argument going on in the thread but you're not involved

>> No.70774810

>>70774766
all part of Ward/Gulliman's plan to eventually turn every chapter into ultramarines

>> No.70774835

>>70774385
A lot of recasters are stingy with their info. The ones that get shared here are usually just the ones with sales portals.

>> No.70774847

>>70774795
uh no dude, I've already won the "argument". Your only response to the straight facts I was spitting was an anecdote which I easily disproved, which you got upset about, threw out a no u, which I again easily batted away because what I said wasn't an anecdote, and in doing so showed you have no idea what you were talking about. Now you're trying to insinuate that I'm angry and unreasonable to try and claim some kind of a moral victory, kind of a freudian slip on your part to basically accuse me of the exact thing you're doing.

>> No.70774857

>>70774764
as an amerifag, can someone tell me why british police are so retarded? Ima move to the u.k. to be with my bf and start a new life and i'm kinda scared of the seemingly infinite amounts of dipshits in the ranks of the u.k. police.

>> No.70774861

>>70774780
Same thing really, though I do think that the red is a little less clashing than the librarian's blue, mostly because bolters are traditionally the same red.

>> No.70774878

>>70774847
post your dudes

>> No.70774900

>>70774857
Police world wide seem to be dumb as fuck. In different aspects sure, but everyone seem to be dumb

>> No.70774903

>>70774878
k

>> No.70774908

>>70774857
It's retarded. You'll even get put in prison for defending yourself when an "Oriental" rapes you on the street.

>> No.70774935

>>70774674
>seeing people posting actually good looking sisters
Why not post these "good" looking sisters models again instead of complaining about the trannies of battle as a response brainlet. That is if they exist...

>> No.70774978

>>70774935
okay then

>> No.70774985

>>70774674
This is what I expected from the start, 90% of people who even bother painting just leave skin at a flat layer and a wash that would make all those faces look completely plain or even unnoticeable. Even skilled painters can end up turning average faces into potatoes

>> No.70774988

>>70774903
hot grass anon

>> No.70774994

How would Corona-chan do in 40k?

>> No.70775005

>>70774994
serve papa nurgle

>> No.70775013

>>70774978
CUTE SISTER OF BATTLE
pls giv titi

>> No.70775023

>>70774978
I thought it was pink armor and I was digging it.
Guess I’ll paint some squad pink because by the fuck not

>> No.70775036

>>70774985
it's basically if you paint sisters like guardsmen, you get guardsmen.

>> No.70775038

>>70775005
Would she be bullied by the other nurgle daemons?

>> No.70775054

>>70774857
Nah, don't worry about it. Police here are pretty chill for the most part. A lot of it is just memery. Yeah, don't walk around with a fucking carving knife in your pocket or something but the "lol 'ave u got a liconse for dat spoon sir?" stuff is just memes.

They're no more or less retarded than American cops, but at least over here they don't normally have guns, which is a plus if you're dealing with the more mentally challenged ones in my opinion. I've travelled around a fair bit and I used to drink a lot so I've had my fair share of contact with various police forces around the world and honestly the British police are easiest to deal with.

Hope shit goes well with the move.

>> No.70775056

>>70771400
>>70771730
>Literally and figuratively shitposting
Papa Nurgle would be proud.

>> No.70775057

>>70774857
Senpai they aren't going to accidentally shoot you, take what you can get.

>> No.70775063

>>70775054
honestly the biggest issue with the police outside of the big cities is their lack of presence if anything else.

>> No.70775073

>>70775063
Danish person here, how bad is muslim/nigger crime in the UK?

>> No.70775081

Can anyone recommend a youtuber or book for making realistic looking and weathered vehicles?

>> No.70775082

Quick rules question.
Can a squad of 4 melta Dominions plus one Sister Superior with combi flamer use the holy trinity stratagem?

>> No.70775083

>>70771284
Far right is sexy, I don't care what you guys say.

>> No.70775090

>>70775083
You mean Big Red?
I personally think the girl second from left is kinda qt and looks less crazy than the rest.

>> No.70775092

>>70775082
Yes. Fire both sides of a combi weapon and it counts as both weapons.

>> No.70775096

Need more models like this for nids.

>> No.70775103

Do the forces of Chaos eat human flesh?

>> No.70775104

>>70775103
Some do.
Most don't anything at all because they don't have to as they are rarely in real space.

>> No.70775113

>>70775103
Who doesnt? Even the Guard eats corpse starch.

>> No.70775130

What do Sisters eat and drink between battles?

>> No.70775140

>>70775130
Human flesh.

>> No.70775150

>>70775140
What does human flesh consume?

>> No.70775152

>>70771455
(You)

>> No.70775161

>>70775150
Smaller pieces of human flesh.

>> No.70775190

>>70771893

>teacup hold

Into the trash

>> No.70775201

>>70774857
It's funny, because it's the rest of the world that thinks US police is made up entirely of neonazis on power trip that will shoot you even if you don't resist.

>> No.70775208

>>70774425
why doesn't any of the by standers help, here if someone would se a gypsy fighting two town guards or policemen people would dog pile on the attacker in like 10 sec.

>> No.70775212

>>70775190
Right? Why would you even need to do that in power armor?

>> No.70775218

>>70775054
the amerifag here
thanks for the advice anon. This is honestly a bit reassuring. And thanks for the farewell too!
hope you have a nice day anon

>> No.70775234

>>70775218
Why are so many of you so horribly fat?

>> No.70775235

>>70775201
Honestly the police in US is made up of two types: those in high crime areas who don't want anyone's shit and love-hate their job, likely scared/stressed that some idiot might pull a gun or knife on them and thus have to be always on guard, or just some small-town/county cop who's just a regular member of community who doesn't feel like writing a police report and just want a quiet life.

>> No.70775244

>>70775234
We eat human flesh.

>> No.70775246

>>70775073
can be bad but is mostly limited to the bigger cities like London, Birmingham, Manchester etc

>> No.70775257

do people think this model could be an okey inquisitorial henchman stand in?

>> No.70775266

>>70775244
I hope you cook it well, otherwise it's a nightmare of disease transfer.

>> No.70775274

>>70775234
1. we are the largest 1st world country in the world
2. we produce the majority of the world's fast food chains and we have the most amount of fast food resturants in the world
3. the idea of pumping sugar and sweetener and shit has become acceptable
4. a notion has been slowly creeping up over here that its ok to look like a beached whale.

>> No.70775277

>>70775257
I could see that being an undercover acolyte.

>> No.70775283

Who is your favourite 40K artist? Can be fanart as well.

>> No.70775284

>>70775208
> town guards
Do you live in a Generic Fantasy Setting?

>> No.70775289

>>70775277
ok, thanks.

>> No.70775295

>>70775283
Karl Kopinski.

>> No.70775297

>>70775277
>Baby, that's a man!

>> No.70775323

>>70775284
no. we have police and town guard. police is run and funded by the central goverment. town guard is city sponsored. Town guards can't operate outside of the town, while police can nail your ass no matter where you are and where you travel.

main difference is that guards only have handguns and shotguns, while police can run around with automatic weapons etc Ah and policemen when they are allowed can take weapons home and guards have to leave guns at work.

<=guard on the left, police on the right.

>> No.70775324

>>70775083
she has nudes out if you're into that.

>>70771311
all sex is predatory, by nature.

>> No.70775337

>>70775333
>>70775333
>>70775333
new

>> No.70775351

>>70775295
Best artist GW has ever had. Shit looks real when he draws it.

>> No.70775395

>>70771925
>Spics
>Not everywhere
Anon please

>> No.70775417

>>70775246
So within a few years they'll have become the majority of the country.

>> No.70775422

>>70775208
Because the cops aren't really in any danger, they're just making themselves look like clowns by not just tackling the guy.

Plus in the UK, our self-defence laws are a bit hit-and-miss, you might go over, tackle the guy to the ground for the cops, then find yourself charged with assault because he hit his head when you tackled him. You almost certainly wouldn't be charged, but there's cases where dumb decisions have been made and they've gotten enough media attention that it is at the back of everyone's mind.

So everyone is looking on and thinking; "Well, he's not attacking the cops or hurting them and if I get involved I could get done for hurting the guy they're trying to arrest, so I'd rather just not get involved".

If he was beating on one of the cops, people'd have gotten involved, you can see one guy approach at the beginning before deciding against it. I've seen people jump into a situation when a male and female cop were trying to arrest some drunk guy and he knocked the female cop over and was grappling with the male, three or four guys ran over and dragged him to the ground.

>> No.70775447

>>70771455

>> No.70775541

>>70775422
we have a law that is a called "offence against the honor of the uniform" almost always you get the max sentance for it and it is 2 years. all goverment offcials are protected by it. And you can break it by falling down when police puts you inside their car.

draging a cop on the floor would be considered that. plus obstruction an officer while performing duty, public morality offence, and because while draging the policment you hit him on the ground it would also be assault. Plus there is no small chance you would fall off the stairs and the police station after doing somehting like that.

UK is a wild country with its anti goverment laws. And I thought it was civilized.

>> No.70775578

>>70775208
Because I would like incompetent to be fired not protected.

>> No.70775621

>>70775578
a negro on drugs has the power of 10 men, two unarmed policmen wouldn't be able to stop one. This ain't being incompetent. I wouldn't expect run of a mill policment stop some rampaging roid freaks either.

>> No.70775733

>>70775541
The British Police operate via a system of 'policing by consent' which means they're meant to behave as an instrument of the People rather than enforcers of the Government. Prior to our first police force being set up in London, the Army was used to keep the peace and was extremely unpopular because of it, there were infamous incidents like the Peterloo Massacre where a lot of people died in crackdowns on civil disobedience.

So the first police were set up in London with the understanding they would serve the community there, the community would consent to them having the authority to keep the peace, rather than be government-controlled enforcers like the Army had been. This is why British police uniforms are blue, because it distinguished them from the red uniforms of the Army at the time.

It is a thin line of distinction but this is why British cops can come across as a bit passive compared to other nations where the police are law enforcement rather than community safety officials first and foremost.

>> No.70775896

>>70775733
I don't know when they deal with my people in the UK they don't stuff like that, they wack and electrecute them on sight.

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