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[ERROR] No.57044125 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Previous thread: >>56998532
>This week's Monday Meeting Notes:
Do you guys just not care anymore
>New Geist preview
>New Deviant preview

>> No.57044315

I care, OP. Are you ok?

>> No.57044338

I'm new to WoD, but I'm really interested in running a game of VtM with my group. Any tips for a new Storyteller?

>> No.57044390

so what do you think about the vampire 5e alpha playtest?

>> No.57044424

Changing Ways pdf when?

>> No.57044435

The hunger thing is way to in the forefront. Its not any 'sexier' than a blood pool and directly makes the game about weird compulsions instead of vampire politics. The tone shift is also defaulting the game to neonates/thin bloods, leaving out all the more interesting and developed parts of the setting. The other mechanics also seem like a bad rip off of CofD. Overall it seems like some abomination of 1e vampire and Shitty Swedish/indie/D&D tier elf shit games with random encounter charts.

>> No.57044489

Friendly reminder that the Ventrue Antitribu are ten times better than the other clans

>> No.57044612

Well mages are really easy to take care of seeing as they're only human you just gotta get the drop on them.

The same could be said of every splat though.

>> No.57044653

Are you talking Ascension or Awakening? Mages have built-in contingencies in the latter, the former not so much.

>> No.57045032

>I'm new to WoD, but I'm really interested in running a game of VtM with my group. Any tips for a new Storyteller?

Lay down some ground rules first for your group, and go over (as a group) what you're willing to play, and what you're not. For example, if the group doesn't want to allow for blatant backstabbing inbetween players in the same group, then don't let them. Also includes stuff like what kind of themes you want to include in the game and which ones you potentially might want to avoid if any of your group feels ill-at-ease with them (VtM is set in the World of Darkness, and there's a LOT of dark stuff in said world).

Also set up some rules to make sure everyone understands that they play imaginary characters, not themselves, and that they need to differentiate between OOC and IC. This is especially important if you allow for player-to-player backstabbing and arranging for the deaths of other partymembers.

Next, be flexible, but don't let the group run you over with stuff they want to play during character creation.

Like, if they really want to play a Tzimisce hiding out in the Camarilla (or just a Caitiff with Fleshcrafting), then let them if the story allows for it, but don't let them be a Thinblood Caitiff born to dhampir parents with 5 dots in Thaumaturgy and shit like that.

if anyone wants to play a Malkavian, make sure they understand that they're playing mentally ill and deranged souls with broken psyches, not Looney Tunes characters. In short, avoid Malkavians that run around and slap people in the face with a fish (Fishmalks).

>> No.57045183

>you just gotta get the drop on them

Much easier said than done. Many an arrogant and foolish supernatural or human have failed and experienced fates worse than death.

>Even top power-tier demons are wary of mages

>> No.57045197


>See also woofs

>> No.57045277

FUck off fags

>> No.57045402

Thank you for the advice. My players are pretty good about role-playing, but I'm definitely going to have to temper the expectations of the system, setting, and themes. Trying to make sure that they don't come into this expecting it to be DnD (which we predominantly play).

I've been playing the video game and reading the V20 books. Is there anything else I need to watch/read in order to really get the mood and themes down?

>> No.57045425

Official antitribu power ranking:
>Do these even exist in canon now?-tier

>> No.57045462

Serpents of the Light are the best Vampire clan.

>> No.57045487

ok but mages are cooler than all of those

>> No.57045531


But some traditions are much cooler than others.

>Order of Hermes Supremacy

>> No.57045824

>want to get into mage
>the writing is boring

>> No.57045892

You gotta read the Tradition books. The core books are a bit dry. I highly recommend the Sons of Ether revised book. It opens with a guy with a time traveling car and goes on to explain that lizard people (Mokole) use to rule the world till the plot to Chrono Trigger happened to them. And that the red star in the sky is it happening again.

>> No.57045944

My biggest issue is running into those mini stories. I want something concise first to lay the ground rules really well rather than M20's needless chunky pages about literal nothing.

Do you recommend any other core books anon?

>> No.57045994

The guide to the Technocracy is a lot clearer than most of the other books. Followed by Revised mage having the cleanest rules, 2e has the best metaplot elements, but it sufferes like most metaplot elements from being spread across dozens of random books.

>> No.57046610

>Changing Ways pdf when?

Probably never.

>> No.57047079

>the Technocracy

>The only true heroes in the oWOD.


>> No.57047651

>Wizard says hello

>> No.57047742

There are no Tzimisce antitribu(unless you count Inconnu).
And the assamites still have a presence in the Black Hand. Anosh is still around too

>> No.57047917

>Much easier said than done. Many an arrogant and foolish supernatural or human have failed and experienced fates worse than death.

still happens, even in head-on combat

>> No.57048106

Are you really comparing a Pangaean with playable templates?

Also I didn't realize Archmages weren't needed to kill 'gods'. News to me.

>> No.57048161

>three groups of mages vs the entirety of werewolves

oh the favourable odds :^)

>> No.57048196

samefagging piece of shit

>> No.57048267

>this reading comprehension

>> No.57048287

I want to reply, but I don't know who's baiting and who isn't. It's a conundrum.

>> No.57048371

I wonder how many woofs it took

>> No.57049046

I'm counting Old Clan Tzimisce

>> No.57049912

People hate Changing Breeds, but people hate a lot of things for no good reason. Just give it a try, I thought. How bad could it be?
I found the answer to that and I wish I hadn't.

>> No.57050086

That's just Ol' Brucatto writing about his weird fetishes again.

>> No.57050106


"Shit-Speak" to Father's Thrusting Cock.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

>> No.57050499

sometimes i wonder what the TTRPG scene would be like if inserting shit like this into mainstream rulebooks was considered normal

>> No.57050568

Probably more like FATAL

>> No.57051064

Hollow Ones are my favorite magickal tradition.

Fight me.

>> No.57051120

Your chaos magick doesn't stand a chance against my Ether Powered Demolecularizer.

>> No.57051131

Just read V20 Black Hand. What a cool, weird book. I find it funny that there are at least 4-5 explanations of Souleaters ("the Manus Nigrum is just retarded" {most likely}, Kupala, the Eldest, or the Nephilim) and that they have some mechanics.

Just a lot of good stuff if you have a crossover boner.

>> No.57051155

WTF is the point of the Serpents of the Light? "Setites but voodoo" aren't interesting. Maybe I'm being unfair, but there really doesn't seem to be more to it than that, at least as of Sabbat Revised edition (anyone have the image for that one mocking it?).

>> No.57051164

I always liked the voodoo Over traditional Setitite Sorcery. The Loa are pretty neat.

>> No.57051178

Isn't WW/OP normal? I mean, its not D&D-normal, but its certainly more mainstream and well known than Runequest and Harnmaster.

>> No.57051198

Jesus Christ, I missed that. Changing Breeds as in the one made early on in nwod right?

>> No.57051233

They even have sympathy for, or possibly had a hand in, the creation of the Camarilla, or at least keeping it free of Vicissitude.

>> No.57051374

Weird Science, Gutter Magick.

aren't we both in the same pool being punished for going against "the true ways" of practicing science/magick?

>> No.57051474

It sounds like you're aiming to blow up some killer robots.

>> No.57051498

So who here's ACTUALLY played a game of oWoD Mage and how did it go?

Greentext story me.

>> No.57051518

I went into a derelict building to stop a spirit to chase out the homeless or something. My anti-spirit ether ray backfired and burned the whole building down. That was pretty fun. The next game session I botched a few Science rolls and accidentally set off a nuclear meltdown.

>> No.57051732

>be mage
>see vampire
>turn vampire into lawn chair
>sit on lawn chair


>> No.57051918

Help me out here, all the cores so far have rules for how many expierences to add to a character for making more advanced ones right? What place are those usually located?

>> No.57052026

I believe they stopped doing that with the 2e books.

>> No.57052074

Really? Dammit that's actually kind of a pain in the ass

>> No.57052255

>be on train
>DEROs are attacking it
>ST guilts me for killing them with Rip The Man Body because "they have families"
>get paradox backlash
>get put on trial by paradox spirits for my crimes against reality that look like The Muppet Babies


>> No.57052300

>be mage
>cat is inseminated by a Nexus Crawler (described as "looking as if dipped in clear honey")
>a guy used life magick to turn himself into a coincidental looking version of a minotaur, so just a big hairy dude, who only wears a belt, doesn't know why I'm angry
>imprison a technomancer's soul in a gem
>his friend comes looking for it and says "RELEASE THAT GENIUS AT ONCE"
>there is a hermes mage who floats around in a bubble and is nearly immune to paradox because he's a marauder and if you antagonize him in any way he uses Correspondence to kill you from miles away


>> No.57052320

>> No.57052355

>be mage
>girl tricks me into going into a tentacle pit
>get ripped apart and put together as a nephandus since I moved forward, bad move
>be evil mage
>kill a bunch of werewolves with my now evil friends
>drain caern
>use life to grow a second penis
>fuck the girl from before


>> No.57052442

>be a normal astronaut with ordinary science tools I don't use around people for some reason
>be in space
>there is a hairy guy clearly suffering from genetic lupine syndrome
>not clear how he is in outer space without dying
>I ask him if he wants a suit before he explodes
>he says this is the spirit realm
>I point out they are aliens, not spirits, and we are clearly in outer space
>he attacks
>I use my science to cure him of his lupine disorder
>he turns into meaty chunks as a side effect


>> No.57052640

In VtR2 it's in quick reference sheet in character creation. Don't have other books on me at the moment

>> No.57052977

It wasn't the entirety of werewolves, which you'd know if you'd actually read it.

>> No.57053038

>responding to a seven hour post

you sure showed him

>> No.57053048

You motherfuckers all need The Gate

>> No.57053284

Chadimos is our ally, he doesn't deserve this.

>> No.57053370

>Be wizard
>Take a shit
>Sell it as Mage the Ascension

You faggots still playing a derivative of Ars Magica

OG Hermes for life Faggots

>> No.57053423

>18th century london
>rumors about ancient city discovered in egypt
>lets gather a pary of enlightened gentleman and research it
>Renowed explorer and owner of giant flying boat etherist
>Heir of an ancient druid practices and head of something something nature museum. Brought his plant golem on board.
>Brave and honorable retire army officer. He learned how to tame fire during his army service in india
>Young opera singer. She see city rise from sand in every dream and when rumors reach her she joined the expedition.
>We travel through desert, fight local tribes, banish sand spirits and fight snake gods
>3 sessions
> druid guy volunteered to be entombed within the city to watch over ancient evil and party escape from giant sandtrap that swallow city once more.

>> No.57053432

This sounds fun

>> No.57054278

So you played the mummy returns with sneks instead of scorpions

>> No.57054302

Why include that, why?

>> No.57054417

Why Void Engineers are kindest of Technos.

>> No.57056660

Not many, I imagine. I've seen so many mage players die to werewolves because they don't realize how much damage they can do in a single turn.

>oh, that silver bullet I made didn't quite kill it?
>well whatever I'll shoot it again next turn, mage armor will save me
>mage explodes as woof deals 17 lethal in a single round

>> No.57057186

They do strive to take over nodes though, meaning they're highly aggressive to regular mages.

>> No.57057297

What's with the shitposting magefags

>> No.57057398


>> No.57057411

is that a rhetorical question?

>> No.57057567

Why does Caine look like he's a special consultant for the police who solves their toughest mysteries every week?

>> No.57057756

>shitposting magefags

Talk about redundant terminology.

>> No.57058131

noob question, does the Cheiron Group have anything to do with Pentex?

>> No.57058168

So Death •• allows you to change the features of a corpse or a living being that has at least one box filled in with damage. However there is a another spell that suppresses your life signs so you appear as the undead.

Could you suppress your life signs and then change your features to get around doing damage to yourself.

>> No.57058205

>Literally only played in hypotheticals.

>> No.57058253

No, different continuities.

Pentex = evil for evil's sake ubermegacorporation, captain planet style villains, has 101 offshoots (even a 4chan hacker analog) but the main ones are Endron Oil (the main planet killing one) and Magadon Pharmaceuticals (the main fomor making one)

Cheiron Group = more like Magadon Pharmaceuticals than Pentex, is run by SPACE ALIUMZ out to save the world (yes really)

>> No.57058302

Their autism power level is too strong compared to other the other splat fags, they can basically shitpost forever and never get tired of it.

>> No.57058352

That's how you're supposed to play it, dumbo

>> No.57058479

>open mage the awakening 2E
>gosh can't wait to see what changed
>Character concept: pic related
>Character concept: Aisha muhhamed the independent warlock from somaliland
>Character concept: evil white alchemist

jesus christ

>> No.57058519

You do know that character has been around since 1e, right? She appeared pretty often.

>> No.57058623

You just need a time slowing Ray gun to deal with all those pesky rage actions.

>> No.57058891

You're about three years late to the rainbow slushy

>> No.57059105

If the Mage player was dumb enough to use direct damage effects for dealing with a woof w/o any other contingency they deserved to get blendered.

>> No.57059162

Looking at the Guayota write u p but don't have mummy, so what's the Rite of Return, specifically?

Did it, alone, make mummies or do the Judges have more to do with that?

Was the rite performed correctly?

>> No.57059184

sorry man, nazis don't awaken

>> No.57059214

So dumb Mages? I might as well throw in a Space 3 Mastigos in your theoretical encounter. Werewolves can't do anything about Ban. Or being forcefully turned back into a human.

>> No.57059242

>it's a "/wodg/ thinks Mages are all super geniuses who always plan ahead and make good decisions because they know they're in an RPG" episode

>> No.57059268

I don't need to know I'm in an RPG when I can see the future.

A power than in of itself negates free will as a concept.

>> No.57059285

Nah, it's called common sense.

>> No.57059296

>Werewolves can't do anything about Ban.
They could just shoot you.
Or scare you to death.

>> No.57059311

>Ban, how does it work?


>> No.57059342

If you're banning all life matter and light then you would need matter life and forces and wouldn't be able to see anything outside

>> No.57059357

I live in a state with unrestricted concealed and open carry. What percent of people here do you think exercise that right? Is it 100%?

>> No.57059362

Planning ahead is kind of focal to Mage, Anon. I don't think wizards as a whole are going to be ignorant of how Uratha function, no less your average Mystagogue.

Do you even know what Ban is?

>> No.57059369

>Or scare you to death

>TFW woofags forget that mages are immune to Lunacy

>> No.57059384

>Do you even know what Ban is?
do you? because you think it makes you invulnerable to all harm which it doesn't

>> No.57059410

If I could see the future I could at least tell you the odds on any given person I'd encounter doing it.

>> No.57059425


Wait, how does Space 3 turn a werewolf back into a human? Wouldn't that be Life or maybe Prime?

>> No.57059426

You don't exactly need any additional Arcana to fuck over a Pack of rampaging Uratha.

>> No.57059431

>>TFW woofags forget that mages are immune to Lunacy
lunacy doesn't kill
screaming moon gifts can mind control and soulrip by sight

i like how the fans of a game about being awakened are all powered by ignorance

>> No.57059442

He said Mastigos. So I'm guessing Mind is involved.

If you use it to protect yourself, it most certainly does! Unless you also have some sort of spatial fuckery to work around it.

>> No.57059446


Mages are paranoid about their fellow mages and other high tier threats due to their investigation of the supernatural (and due to mage sight, realization that supernatural crap happens all the time around them).

Simply, if you lifestyle is inherently dangerous, you take precautions in your day to day dealings, and then prepare even more when you expect trouble. If mages are ready to defend against mages, demigods and anti-reality beasts, they certainly can deal with some yorkies with delusions of grandeur.

>> No.57059447

i take it you're unaware of the relocation abilities of werewolves?

>> No.57059452

Ok. This is way too cheesed. What were the devs thinking.

>> No.57059455

Omg you are straight up stupid.

If a whole pack of woofs is stuck in a ban they cant get out and will suffocate.

>> No.57059470

>Lash of Rage (Level Four) — The metis harnesses all of the shame, hate, and fury coiled in his heart and lashes out with it, destroying another. Bones snap, organs rupture, and cavities fill with blood as the metis’s Rage tears the target apart. A spirit of fury teaches this Gift.
>System: The player spends one Rage point and rolls his Rage rating. A target within 100 yards (91 m) takes one level of unsoakable aggravated damage for each success. This Gift can be used safely only once per scene. Any additional uses inflict the Gift’s full damage on both the metis and his target.

This power is difficulty 3 on a full moon for an Ahroun Metis. They also have easy access to rage, potentially making your dice pool 15 (Diff 3). Sadly it can't really be used more than once.

This is the most brutal gift I could find for woofs. Everything else good pretty much requires the Gauntlet to be low to pull off, and is useless in the developed world.

>> No.57059472

it's another 'bork claw bite' episode

woofs never learn

>> No.57059473

Mind 2 faggot.

Just get the woof to kill his packmates.

>> No.57059477


Woofs generally cannot just quickly enter and leave the Shadow anywhere at will (unlike mages with spirit). Also, if the mage has some proficiency with Spirit, ban can bar access to the Shadow.

>> No.57059490

Don't forget you can use life to disable their regeneration as well.

>> No.57059502

i take it you are unaware of how unlikely a woof is to beat a mage in a clash of wills?

What with duration giving extra dice and all.

>> No.57059507

Are we now moving to a pack vs. cabal conflict, instead of the woof vs. mage batter.

If so, it's *really* not going to turn out well for the woofs.

>> No.57059540

So I'm guessing a Thyrsus Adept with proficiency in Space and/or Mind is a literal 'Anti-Woof' wizard?

>> No.57059543

>Ok. This is way too cheesed. What were the devs thinking.

Ban is not so impressive was the target is mages or other very powerful threats. Mage need only be internally consistent, particularly with respect to appropriate adversaries.

>> No.57059581


Pretty much any mage who reaches adept status and is not retarded is an anti-[every other splat] wizard. Given the versatility and power of the Arcana, the XP power curve in Mage is very steep.

>> No.57059588

Reminder that forces 2 gravity control can wipeout a woof pack.

Falling horizontally into a wall 30m away is deadly even for woofters.

>> No.57059594

sure sure
wait! before you werewoofs attack me, please stand around in a small area so i can imprison you while i run away

flawless victory chum

>> No.57059620


I thought you guys were just memeing this mage supremacy talk lol

>> No.57059643

>Falling horizontally into a wall 30m away is deadly even for woofters.
that would do 10 bashing damage it's note even deadly for humans

>> No.57059649

Terminal Velocity (aka 10 damage) does lethal.

>> No.57059658

10 Lethal but, yeah, it's not a guaranteed kill.

>> No.57059669


who better to solve murder than #1 murderer??

what else is he gonna do? drive a cab or something?

>> No.57059683

It's the only reason why they don't shut up about it. It's all overpowered "I win" shit.

>> No.57059688

>small area

you are a fucking idiot.

>> No.57059697


Reverse or nullify gravity.

Let's see how well woofs do hurtling out through the stratosphere into space.

Also note that every mage spell is capable of attacking multiple targets or a sizable area of effect with minor spell penalties and/or a Reach.

>> No.57059706

10 lethal and they are stuck against whatever they hit.

Thats pretty much fucked in my book.

>> No.57059725

1 reach = 5 woofs go flying

this is why your retarded.

>> No.57059752

I mean they aren't stuck. Its just normal gravity. They can stand up and everything. Though I doubt most walls would support a whatever they call Crinos now werewolf.

>> No.57059779

I mean, you're entirely correct, but


>> No.57059783

im sure its called gayform now.

>> No.57059787

It was the culmination of a major necromantic ritual by the Shan'iatu, head priests of the Nameless Empire, to (if my memory is right) consume the titles of the Judges, essentially becoming them. The other benefit is that it would make a whole bunch of their loyal followers immortal and powerful slaves to do their bidding.

It involved feeding Ammut, a creature of unending hunger that either IS the Abyss or a pretty powerful Abyssal Intrusion, with countless slaves and breaking the very fabric of time itself. It has yet to be replicated by anyone, though magical assholes of all types certainly try.

For all the effort they did, the Rite was more or less performed correctly. Most Shan'iatu got to be Judges and they got their Mummies. It just so happened that some of the Shan'iatu ended up possessing some Mummies instead and turning them into horrible flesh warped things called Decieved. Also Ammut decided to turn her sacrifices into zombies that can remember everything and nurse a heavy grudge. Oops.

>> No.57059816

You know what, that's an excellent point. Can't really argue with that.

>> No.57059840

Newbie question; how would ou rank the splats based on overall power for the purposes of mixing the games without any trouble?

>> No.57059848


What are you trying to achieve?

>> No.57059857

I think a rule of thumb sheet would be good, no? Why mix mages and werewolves if they're not going to match well

>> No.57059915

Rule of thumb is just dont do it.

Play a X game and dont allow faggot players to play anything but X.

Its only edgy faggotlords who want to be speshal snowflakes that ever want to play Y in a X game and you dont want them around anyway.

>> No.57060030

when i run a mage group im fucking serious about paradox, the games mechanics are kind of broken , so if you do seriously reality defying shit you`ll regret it

>> No.57060049

You sound like a bitch

>> No.57060108

Paradox is the essential element of the game, that said , if your character is creative at creating situations that can make his magic seem credible, im the first to let a guy do his stuff

>> No.57060121

This isn't Ascension, grognard.

>> No.57060131

If i dont over reach and there are no mortal witnesses.

Then you can go fuck yourself.

>> No.57060156

>Reminder that forces 2 gravity control can wipeout a woof pack.
>Falling horizontally into a wall 30m away is deadly even for woofters.

Not really, it just 10 lethal, falling any distance at terminal velocity is just 10 bashing. Any woof can remain in kuruth and survive that indefinitely.

If the devs are so retarded to make mages so OP, then one can rule lawyer the fuck out of the shitty rule system.

>> No.57060167

Okay weird. I can find one for demon, beast, and vampire, but nothing for werewolf or mage. The heck?

>> No.57060201

That's not rules lawyering, its just a bad plan from someone about as creative as the average clawing woof. Falling isn't a great way to kill something that recovers all lethal every round.

>> No.57060209

So are Werewolves the second strongest after Mages?

>> No.57060221

Not by a long shot.


>> No.57060242

I'd say Demons arguably stronger than Mages

>> No.57060248

Ofc every mage has all arcana at 5 too.

If all you have is forces 2 then its a pretty good way of forcing a entire woof pack to fuck off and take some damage. You then have plenty time to decide what else you are going to do.

I didnt say it was the best way to fuck with woofs. The point was that an arcana at 2 can fuck an entire woofs plans up and thats just the top of the iceberg.

>> No.57060263

loud demons are as fucked in a ban as woofs

>> No.57060289

Loud Demons are kind of glass cannon-ey. Which makes sense given the themes of the game. But it took me for a shock the first time I tried going loud with a burner cover.

>> No.57060312

And those are all the ones that don't have special expierence. Dammit trying to make this work is gonna suck a little bit

>> No.57060324

They're really not.

>> No.57060329


Not who you're talking to but... what do you actually want to do in Mage if there's no downside to using your powers and your powers are the ability to snap your fingers and fix almost all problems (Yes, That's a bit of hyperbole but not by much).

Just feels like it's shouldn't be in world of darkness if there's no actual darkness (and don't give me the "hubris" bullshit. Hubris as a story element only works if there are consequences to extending your reach which doesn't exist when your reach is as long as it is in Mage).

>> No.57060347


God Tier

Semi-God Tier
>True Fae
>Incarnate Beast

Overpowered Tier
>Prep Mage
>Loud Demon
>Fresh Mummy

Higher Tier
>Sin-Eater w/Boneyard

Lower Tier
>Prep Hunter

>> No.57060351

>Just feels like it's shouldn't be in world of darkness
because it's not, it was just different game shoehorned into it

>> No.57060357

>Looking at the Guayota write u p

the what

>> No.57060363

Fixing problems usually make other problems.

And if you ST is putting problems you can solve with a snap of your fingers in your way then thats a shit ST.

Mage is usually about "should i do something" rather than "can i do something. You still have to live with the consquences of whatever you have "fixed". What if there are other Mages who dont want it "fixed"? Pretty sure you can get stories out of that...

>> No.57060416

True. There aren't even good gifts to counter such things in NWoD. At least in OWoD you had spirit of the bird and things like reshape object (for leverage). One of my players was a psychic and just picked a woof up and held it in the air to be beaten on by the rest of the party. It only broke out because the fight was indoors so he made some pillars to push off of.
I'm not really sure what NWoD woofs could even do stuck in the air (or to a wall).

>> No.57060434

i know


>> No.57060680

That sounds all well and good but it's a hollow retort considering WoD general has a fairly dedicated community that goes out of it's way to show in mechanical detail hoe magic is the answer to all problems.

Can you give me an example of how fixing problems makes other problems that can't be solved by just applying more magic (without just saying "the abyss" because paradox is gimped as fuck and this whole conversation was started because of a bunch of anon bitching about the very idea of making paradox harsher)

>> No.57060784

Actions have consequences, continuing to impose your will on the world will eventually reach out like a butterfly effect. Sure you can use more magic to stop those cascading issues, but that can just lead to more problems.

>Guy is dying on the street
>You heal him and save his life with magic rather than taking him to a hospital
>instead of a coma he is now free to live his life
>turns out hes some abhorrent monster or terrorist or any number of other things
>Could even be as simple as his child goes on to do something.
>doing nothing would have left him dead or in a coma

Things kinda like my bad example are mentioned in the books. Infinite power means infinite responsibility. The peak of this is the arch master in one of the books who refuses to take action because of the long reaching consequences.

>> No.57060826


>Gravity, baby!

>> No.57060847

>leave him dead or in a coma

If he's a filthy, Pancryptia-inducing Sleeper, he doesn't deserve any better.

>> No.57060913

>Guayota write up
>the what

Christmas Forsaken bonus material from Chris Allen. It's not canon, but extras from Chris are *almost* as good as stuff from Dave. Even better, he's planning on writing more material over the coming days.

If Rich doesn't hire Chris as the new Forsaken developer, it would be tragic.


>> No.57060918

>be a paramedic
>save guy in street
>turns out he's hitler oh no

deep moral questions

>> No.57060958


That's precisely why Wisdom is not morality, but control of your magic, and Hubris is so risky.

With magic, a mage *knows* more and can accomplish nearly anything. The game is about how mages use and abuse their abilities.

>> No.57060982

Paramedics lack the ability to accurately predict such consequences. Its also not a 'random' action, its their job and what they do. Its natural. What a mage does isn't.

>> No.57061009

And so where does time and fate fit into that huh? You know... the magic that lets you snap your fingers and know what kind of effect comes after each action before you do it...

>> No.57061027

Is there any more content planned for Forsaken? The woofs need some love.

>> No.57061069

Time and Fate make you a god. Everyone but you doesn't even have free will. This would weigh heavily on most people, likely driving them to what society would call 'madness'. just not he turboautists who talk about mage on line

>> No.57061100

>Is there any more content planned for Forsaken?


Werewolf: The Forsaken
Night Horrors: Shunned by the Moon: The Ghost Wolves, The Pure, the Bale Hounds. All enemies of the Tribes with their own myths and legends and Hunting Grounds that will be detailed in this book. PDF/PoD
The Contagion Chronicle: PDF/PoD
Dark Eras 2: PDF/PoD.

>> No.57061112

>I'm not really sure what NWoD woofs could even do stuck in the air (or to a wall).
Breath of Air with cunning renown at least 3 might help.

>> No.57061121

That's such a contrived scenario though and one that is easily remedied by just killing the dude, reversing time or divining the future as a free action before you save them.

And if they were some supernatural monster if you have enough Life to heal you have enough Life to tell thats not human.

And if you just keep going along those lines for your story it just becomes pic related

>> No.57061125

>If Rich doesn't hire Chris as the new Forsaken developer, it would be tragic.

Rich is responsible for Brucato and M20 and MattMc and Beast.

Hiring Chris would be a smart decision, so we must assume it's not going to happen. Sad.

>> No.57061137

>TFW when vampires get no love with all the woof and mage talk

>> No.57061144

>or divining the future as a free action before you save them.
This is called planning. Things like this are how you avoid wisdom loss.

>> No.57061155

Evidently it doesnt because otherwise ever acanthus would be insane. Additionally all mages are awate of those facts, they live in a fake world.

>> No.57061167

At least we have 3 supplements for 2ed. Even if quality is dubious

>> No.57061170

Aren't all the Acanthus stereotypes being whimsical and 'crazy'?

>> No.57061201

But it doesn't make for a particularly dramatic moment because drama comes from failure. But in mage you have no excuse to fail, as a mage you will never try your hardest but fail anyway and have a moment of growth because you can just DO IT

>> No.57061217

That is why I've always preferred Ascension despite its many flaws. The beat system makes dramatic failures a bit more likely, but botches happen fairly frequently and make for some fun times in OWoD.

>> No.57061311

>Aren't all the Acanthus stereotypes being whimsical and 'crazy'?

Acanthus are the douches of the mage world. They mage Obrimos and Mastigos cuddly in comparison.

>> No.57061354

What kinda major homebrew changes to the settings have you guys ever made? New or Old.

>> No.57061426

None mostly. unless the games are inherently broken or rules are missing, such as 1e changeling not actually listing how defense factors into dreams among several other issues. If things are merely OP its usually easy to deal with because NPCs also have access to such things,though I usually let players get the drop at least once or twice with unique creative thaumaturgy till the antagonist works it out.

>> No.57061493

Toned down the edge and wannabe-grimderp a little bit. The book loves to wax poetic how nWoD is our world, "but darker", but IRL is pretty fucking dark already. Replace all those mysterious disappearances with looming vampires or mage supremacy and you're pretty horror already.

>> No.57061532

Mostly setting stuff. Using the main splats cosmology to explain the existence of any other splats.
Biggest thing I can say I've done is tried to bring back hunters closer to reckoning, like full major template tier.

>> No.57061555

>The book loves to wax poetic how nWoD is our world, "but darker", but IRL is pretty fucking dark already.
I was trying to explain the OWoD setting to some new players and was talking about Pentex and their only response was "So its just like the real world".

>> No.57061620

Contagion Chronicle update
>The overall plan for the book is to present a Chronicle where the playable supernatural types are involved in a single world. Specific tweaks to powers or whatever will be provided as needed to enable the Contagion Chronicle to work, and as examples for your own crossover games and Chronicles. So hopefully, you’ll find some answers in how such territorial issues are handled in the specific Contagion Chronicle setting.

>> No.57061640

Try reading the mage night horrors book, they try and give some advice for that sort of thing there.

>> No.57061871

I change up the OWoD Vampire setting a little bit.

Camarilla - Functionally the same except for some clan changes. They're the Austere creatures of the night that play lords and ladies. I make certain Roads a respected presence in the faction because when I run you need a few centuries under your belt before you're prepared enough to make that change of mindset.
-Cappadocian (It never sat well that the right hands of the Ventrue were just left to the slaughter by a splinter sect of their own clan)
-Lasombra (The internal competitors with the Ventrue, I try to go for a Silver Fang/Shadow Lord relationship)

Carthian Movement - I steal the idea of these dudes from NWoD because they're just blatantly better than the Anarchs. Historically I make them a large group of Sabbat Kindred that actually decided to negotiate a armistice with the Camarilla after it's formation. Basically where all the reasonable members of the Sabbat ended up following the Anarch Revolts
-Primarily Brujah but all clans are welcome with proper sponsorship

Sabbat - A radical movement that rose during the period of the inquisition that revelled in it's vampire nature and rebelled against the oppressive elders that sent them to the slaughter. Pretty similar to the Sabbat of the original setting but with different clan focus. The clans were chosen because of their respective histories with Diablerie which is an act the group now views as sacred and a means of redemption.
-Brujah (The martial arm the voice of the group
-Tremere (The brains the kind of a poster child for the power of diablerie)
-Malkavians (The spiritual element of the group that fell in with the group originally because of the strong stigma madness had with possession during the dark ages period)

- Settite (Change them to focus less on snakes and more on the Gnostic corruption of religions as a base of power)
- Gangrel

>> No.57061920

Oh Also

-Assamite (I make them a clan willingly kept at arms length to remain as imparital judges and mediators rather than muslim ninjas. However, they do engage in legislated murder similar to how the Morag Tong in Morrowind operate)

Additionally, I drop the Tzimisce and make them a cultural divide in the clan Venture rather than their own clan because I feel they cross a lot of barriers, these Ventrue are basically pagan old lords with remain independent in the Balkans.

>> No.57061992

Fuck man you cover my exact thoughts on lasombra and tzimisce

>> No.57062192

It actually makes sense. Without Gratiano and Lugoj in there making the sect a farce since its founding, there's still Vasantasena being all principled and shit.

>> No.57062420


Nerf the fuck out of mages (Awakening) in mage only games.

>> No.57062655

In Masquerade, Primogen councils were instituted by the Camarilla at the request of the Brujah, Gangrel, and Malkavians, who were sick of getting shit on by the Prince in 90% of cities (obviously you occasionally had a city with a Gangrel Prince or whatever but realistically it's usually a Ventrue or Toreador). The purpose of a Primogen council is to ensure that all clans have at least one Kindred to represent them in city affairs. This rule can be ignored in cities with particularly strong or isolated Princes, but in the majority of cities it does work this way. I made this rule to explain why Primogen councils are so often portrayed this way despite the official explanation (most powerful elders get together to ensure the Prince doesn't crush them individually) not logically leading to a one-seat-per-clan council.

In Apocalypse, there have been multiple Impergia throughout the ages. The biggest one is the one most people talk about, but there's another big one that caused the Bronze Age Collapse. The Garou don't know this and generally attribute any legends from the minor Impergia to the major one (although some Galliards speculate that there have been others).


>> No.57062814


What does based means?

>> No.57062962

Since Werewolf isn't canon to my Ascension campaign, I completely redid how the Umbra worked. Instead of the various canon Spirits, Umbroods, and dimensions, all real world mythologies are true and have Umbral dimensions. This includes afterlives, since Wraith is also not canon to my campaign. In both cases this was more due to not knowing their setting much at the time, and preferring to make Consensual Reality more prominent.

The practical side-effect is making contact with gods far more common an occurrence.

>> No.57063230

Oh hey speaking of mythologies and spirits
Where the fuck is the Scion 2e

>> No.57063451

>toreador dies by getting one punched by the werewolf she led back to our camp
>the party makes a statue of her and mounts it to the front of her ship
>my malkavian gets a dramatic comeuppance that everyone finds amazing OOC and we all enjoy watching play out
>no one even acknowledges it IC despite the storyteller telling them they'd notice it and instead the coterie goes on a random quest to find a bear ass before a 100 year timeskip takes place

Why are we still here? Just to suffer?

>> No.57063885

Please upload Changing Ways pdf

>> No.57063938


Pretty please

>> No.57064112

Because I like crossover shit, and because Gangrel are one of my favorite Vampire clans and some of the older 1e lore suggested it, I decided that the Gangrel Antediluvian Ennoia had a helping hand in making the Werewolf race some thousands of years ago.

Also, I usually feel like the Demons of Demon the Fallen are too weak for what they are, so I like to alter the rules to make them a force that stands on more even footing with the rest of the OWoD.

>> No.57064181

>I decided that the Gangrel Antediluvian Ennoia had a helping hand in making the Werewolf race some thousands of years ago.

>> No.57064225

>Also, I usually feel like the Demons of Demon the Fallen are too weak for what they are, so I like to alter the rules to make them a force that stands on more even footing with the rest of the OWoD
Aren't demons already the top dogs in oWoD?

>> No.57064347

Not from what I was able to gather.

Many of the Apocalyptic Forms are impressive, but unless they had at least some Torment ratings then it seemed like their abilities to deal and soak damage could be pretty limited. Against a Werewolf for example, who can quite easily deal lots of aggravated damage, it didn't seem like a Demon could last long.

It has been a while since I've read the rules, but that is what I remembered. Demons did have the ability to see through illusions and invisibility quite easily, and I recalled that they could shrug off mind control attempts easily as well, but in a straight up fight they seemed a bit weak.

>> No.57064412

Speaking as a Demon Fag, the rules presented in Demon the Fallen put the Demons on more or less the same level as a Kindred(13th-7th Gen). Lores are mixed bag, if your DM uses the rules from the player guide for Apocalyptic form customization you can do some impressive stuff with it and you can access high torment apocalyptic traits at the expense of gaining torment. That said, the rules presented are for low ranking demons, who knows what Lucifer, the Archdukes or fellows like Charon can do.

>> No.57064448

Nobody awnsered but I think you're good to go. One last advice: let your imagination go wilf as much as you want, but only start preparing the story itself once you know what characters will be playing. All my ideas for three-way tensions between pagans, christians and jews in Late Antiquity (we always play Dark Ages) went to the garbage when my five players decided to make 4 pagans not interested on religion and a zoroastrian.

>> No.57064840

Why you idiots use archmages like they even mean anything other than outliers

>> No.57064890

They're fully playable templates.

They deserve to be on the list like any other.

>> No.57064943

I prefer Ventrue being "new" (adaptable) lords/elites and Lasombra being "old" (reactionary) lords/elites. In the dark ages archetypical Ventrue are frankish and german knights, feudal lords, this new establishment after the end of antiquity. Lasombra are more attached to the mediterranean and roman past, which is seen on their love towards the catholic church (in a lot of ways the real heir of Rome in the West). In the modern nights Ventrue are bankers and businessmen, while a Lasombra would never be caught calling himself that (even if de facto he is). Only ventrue under Lasombra's yoke are medievalish reactionaries. The difference between those two philosophies of power are very important and justify having two elite clans.

Tzimisce would be Lasombra, not Ventrue, in this paradigm. Although I think tzimisces should be allowed to be their own clan if Setites are instead of being a weird egyptian toreador cult.

>> No.57064961

Demon abilities can potentially get up to 6+ tier.

As for who's 'top dog', Archmages take the cake. But we already knew that.

>> No.57065011

Aren't Archmages in oWoD just mages that are too powerful to be on earth while nWoD Archmages are actual gods?

>> No.57065067

If Archmages are the top dogs, why can't they defeat Caine?

>> No.57065078

sounds yiffy.

>> No.57065088

The question isn't why can't they, but why they didn't.

>> No.57065095


>> No.57065115

They didn't, because they can't.

>> No.57065132

It's quite simple, really. Archmages, despite being more powerful than Caine, can't defy God.

But God is just another Archmage so the point is rather moot

>> No.57065158

I bet your dick is as stale as your bait

Only good answer

>> No.57065210

>God is just another Archmage

>> No.57065212


I dunno, I don't buy that dichotomy. They're just as old as the Lasombra (maybe older) and I feel the divide between being an adaptable and reactionary lord, as you put it, should be more of Kindred by Kindred basis kind of thing.

As for the Settites, what I meant to get across was that I don't treat them like Egyptian Toreador. They're the dominant clan of Faith, but their whole goal is to invert it. They're like a Gnostic doomsday cult that infects every religion it comes across with the promise that by tearing down the limitations people put on themselves they can become divine (think Tyler Durden mixed with Alexander Anderson)

>> No.57065300

Given that his lupine disorder allowed him to function fine in a airless vacumn, can it really be a disorder?

>> No.57065336

I'm sorry, anon. I didn't realize how far gone you already are. I will stop now.

>> No.57065457

What vampire clan is /r9k/? or what would the ictional counterpart of that board be like in owod?

>> No.57065464


>> No.57065466


>> No.57065487

Either Nosferatu or the embodiment of edgy fedora-wearing Caitiffs.

>> No.57065587

>be me
>30 years old, living in parents basement
>still virgin
>embraced by nosferatu
>nobody notices because I look exactly the same

>> No.57065700

Mitnick from VtM bloodlines supposedly got better looking after embrace. Think about that

>> No.57065737

You got a chuckle out of me, anon.

>> No.57066397


How will he feed if he never leaves the basement?

Cheetos and corn chip contain no Vitae.

>> No.57066400

Mommy will bring him his bloodies

>> No.57067005

>ST for the WtF game has been missing for a week

comeon bruh, we haven't even discussed what kind of game we wanted yet, 3/5 of us even have characters done, multiple in at least one case

>> No.57067205

Until they get a Second Edition book, they're not canon.

>> No.57067282

What is better: Access to every werewolf gift or access to the first three ranks of every arcanum?

>> No.57067311

Define 'better'.

>> No.57067342

you can do some pretty retarded shit JUST with all the tech gifts, but so can you with all the arcanum

so, yes

>> No.57067353

Access to the first three ranks in every arcanum.

you'll never find uses for 90% of those werewolf gifts.

The arcanum are ALWAYS useful.

>> No.57067382

>tons of useless werewolf gifts since you are in fact not a werewolf
>tons of useless werewolf gifts since they're situation dependant
>tons of useless werewolf gifts since you don't have the energy of the types werewolves use to power them as, again, not a werewolf

compared to

>abilities intrinsic to humans
>work together synergistically as well as individually
>consistently useful in huge varieties of situations since they deal specifically with the universe you live in as a human being
>No situation you cannot cope with in always have some way to deal with any situation because you have access to all the arcana

There's really no contest.

>> No.57067615

undercooked tendies?

>> No.57067899

They're probably looking over at It Came From Beneath the Sea! and trying to see if there's any good rules they can use for Scion.

Joking aside, it'll probably be out in March.

>> No.57068147

>march 2027

>> No.57068453

> should be more of Kindred by Kindred basis kind of thing
This can be said about literally any clan niche, even Gangrel and Nosfies to some degree. Also being old as a group got nothing to do with being reactionary.

>> No.57068456

Deviant when?

>> No.57068592

Errata and FAQ for MtAw when?

>> No.57068756

Were any of the other splats hit as hard as the step down from M:tAs Revised to M20?

>> No.57069258

Are mages and vampires affected by the delerium?

>> No.57069315

Nope. Only baseline mortals

>> No.57069331

>Were any of the other splats hit as hard as the step down from M:tAs Revised to M20?
>hit as hard as the step down from M:tAs Revised to M20?
>step down from M:tAs Revised to M20?
>step down
Are you serious?

M20 increased the power level of mages (at least with it's default rules) from revised.
Paradox is less dangerous, and you don't need as many successes on multi aspected spells.

>> No.57069347

Vampires shouldn't since in their booksplats you get adapted rules for werewolves and while gifts, umbral travel, etc. delirium isn't mentioned as far as I know.

>> No.57069357

What if he cares about quality and not powerwank?

>> No.57069403


I talked with the developer of the Revised Assamites book at length once about what changed in the Clan and their conceptual origin as the 'judges of Kindred', so I really jibe with this.

>> No.57069425

M20 only suffered because SATYROS PHILIP BRUCATO wasn't reigned in with development in any fashion. Also don't forget to donate to his Patreon or he'll lose his apartment.

>> No.57069551

did you know that there is a official VTM online slot machine?

>> No.57069963

These green text stories are giving me aneurysms

>> No.57070298


Can i donate for him to loose his apartment and live on the streets as he so glorifies?

>> No.57070352


>> No.57070380

Phil did nothing wrong

>> No.57070432

Isn't this accounting for 1e books?
Where do 2e splats rank now?

>> No.57070453


>> No.57070462

If that list wasn't 2e then Demon wouldn't be there

>> No.57070621

Aren't Archmages one hit wonders? It probably takes them like ten years to even cast one of their ridiculously costly spells.

>> No.57070810

Ported the Nosferatu weakness from Requiem to the Ravnos in Masquerade bases on a line from book of nod (he, who took no action, but abandoned other to their fate shall be himself Outcast and trusted by none).
Then it turned out this was their original weakness back in 1e

>> No.57070932

What are some interesting and fun derangement for a Malkavian that are more subtle and to obvious but just as, intense and debilitating?

>> No.57071185


>Signs of Sorcery: This book covers the physical, tangible expressions of magic: Sacraments, Magical Tools, Grimoires, and more, as well as the creations of archmages. 120 pages. PDF/PoD.

Wait a second. Call me slowpoke, but wasn´t this book supposed to be about Supernal Mysteries in general? When did that change to
"the physical, tangible expressions of magic"?

>> No.57071265


>thinks SoS is ever going to get finished....


>> No.57071308

Because bitches love Archmages.

>> No.57071335

I was really looking forward to the chapter about Awakenings, and, to a lesser extent, to the one about magical knowledge in general. Looks like those are exactly the ones that are going to be dropped/changed the most.

>> No.57071368

>Phil did nothing right

>> No.57071399

I will bet you twenty dollars the man who drew this picture also draws furry bara porn. There is just no way

>> No.57071466

So I watched "Bright" today and it kinda sparked my interest for Changeling. Can I make arrogant "superelf" in CtL 2ed and make it fit inside the themes of the game(I apologise if this is kinda obvious question but as I said - wasn't interested in ctl earlier)

>> No.57071504

>Can I make arrogant "superelf" in CtL 2ed and make it fit inside the themes of the game
Yes, you can easily do that.

>> No.57071510

That's the censored version
There's a version out there with a massive furry shlong

>> No.57071830

It's not that big.

>> No.57072027

Except they were already talked about in a 2e book. Making them cannon.

>> No.57072078

That's only for imperial practices. You can still can't all your master level spells with imperial factors all you want. They generally account for double to 5 times the amount per -2.

>> No.57072126

>upgrade to a new phone
>Lose all pdfs I had for every rpg I played, which included every single splat of CtL 1e save the goblin markets
I should probably redownload them since I'm trying to find a changeling game and get into mage, plus I sorta have an on hiatus VtM game that I lost the rulebook for as well, but it's just crushed my soul a bit

>> No.57072142

Did you throw away your old phone or something? Why did you not have cloud backups of your mobile data?

>> No.57072164

I turned my phone in and I thought I did. Literally everything copied over except for my pdfs. It may be something to do with iBooks on my laptop, since for some reason they would never add onto it

>> No.57072186

it's pretty thick.
i bet he's a grower

>> No.57072201

>Apple products
Found your problem. Apple sucks dick and so do their back up tools.
Should probably get a real phone.

>> No.57072222

probably should. Doesn't fix my problem though

>> No.57072255

Same poster as here, does anyone have a mega or something with VtM, CtL, and Mage rulebooks?

Bonus points for dnd 5e, Exalted, and Black Crusade, but I was gonna head over to those generals for those games

>> No.57072294

Check the pastebin in the OP. It has most of the pdfs.

>> No.57072483

Oh hey random aside, but this reminds me. How many of the various powers of the various lines are 'complete' and how many of them are there supposed to be a bunch of and the book gives a sampling? Heres what I have so far
Vampire: Don't actually know. I think there are in theory more disciplines out there, since the book of spirits added one. More devotions exist than listed, in theory more sorcery exists than listed
Werewolf: Moon and Wolf gifts are fixed, more shadow gifts and rites existed than listed
Mage: Arcanum are fixed at ten, but of course you can do a bunch with them
Changeling: More contracts exist than listed
Prometheian: I'm also confused on. Transmutations seemed linked to refinements so in theory there are more refinements with more transmutations, but you can't add new ones to existing refinements I wouldn't think. Bestowments are fixed
Hunter: More endowments and tactics exist than listed
Giest: I assume more keys and manifestations exist than listed, since book of the dead added some. And more...whatever their ritual things are called
Mummy I haven't read
Demon: More embeds, exploits, and demonic form powers exist than listed
Beast: More nightmares exist than listed
Do any of these sound wrong?

>> No.57072484

basement rats

>> No.57072607


>> No.57072662

>mfw got into Chaos Magick because of Mage
>mfw Jack Chick is right

yknow its pretty self aware stuff. at its simplest its just you using rituals to set up motivation in your subconcious so you're more likely to set out and accomplish it.

DIY religion.

>> No.57072674

Which edition of Awakening should I get into? 2e or 1e?

>> No.57072768


its got sjw pandering but the magic rules are actually consistent

>> No.57072818

I feel like in terms of general quality M20 was a big step down. To the point where i use the revised rules instead of M20 as my go to.

>> No.57072835

What sorts of sjw pandering? Also, how bad is 1e?

>> No.57072889

You mean affirmations? Those aren't magic you faggot.

>> No.57072915


And like the picture of a free council is a gay pride parade (which i guess makes sense). Theres a sidenote about Zhi/Zhir pronouns.

1e has practices that say you can change things with 3 or 4 dots, but rotes will say you only need 2 dots in life to turn corn into bees.

>> No.57072964


meant >>57058479

>> No.57072985

Sigils are all about the subconcious.

>> No.57073002

Adding made up words to describe basic human psychology makes you no better than the average 'red pill' pick up artist.

>> No.57073008

Question for magefags. If my archmage used Spirit seven to turn himself into a 6+ spirit could he use Influences to mimic imperial spells on a whim instantly without quintessence?

>> No.57073033

Probably but you'd only have the Influences you gave your self with the original spell.

>> No.57073050

IF that's the extent of it, should be fine. As long as that's not stuff that's reinforced in game lore/rules (mostly the latter), it should be better than what 1e sounds like then

>> No.57073055

NO. Yes. Maybe. I don't know.

Despite enabling Archmasters as fully compatible and playing Templates, Imperial Mysteries is really damn vague regarding just how far one can go.

>> No.57073083


>> No.57073097

But that could be any influence. What if I decided to give him a rank 8 influence? There's nothing saying that seven dots CAN'T do it. Like a short cut to transfiguration.

I'm seeing this but the latter part of the book is what confuses me.

>> No.57073107

Does anyone use range bands from Chrod´s Hurt Locker?

I am asking because it mentions that moving between ranges cost a movement action but I don't know what a movement action is.

Do you have to sacrifice your action to get 1 movement action? Or you get 1 movement action as part of your action and then you can sacrifice your regular action for an extra movement action?

>> No.57073122

>As long as that's not stuff that's reinforced in game lore/rules (mostly the latter), it should be better than what 1e sounds like then
Its constantly reinforced with every listed spell as well as how the mages operate in the fiction. The weirdness of the magic system in 1e is inescapable without a heavy dose of house rules. That said, the mess isn't unplayable, it just makes creative thaumaturgy a bit awkward with all the speed bumps. Like certain forms of matter requiring hire dots, or lower forms of life requiring lower dots, or different energy types requiring different dots. This is all cleaned up in 2e.

>> No.57073129


Not only do we need a Mage FAQ for normie wizards, but we also need one for them Archmages as well.

>> No.57073140

You can't really make a spirit higher rank than your arcana dots, including yourself. So you'd be capped on influences by your dots.

>> No.57073177

Where is this stated?

>> No.57073220

In the spells that make spirits? Throughout various books? All of the examples in both 1e and 2e and imperial mysteries?

>> No.57073254

It's awful, so don't bother. Clearly influenced by white wolf.

>> No.57073283

It's not like an Archmage *needs* to turn itself into a spirit to reap the benefits of their capabilities.

It would cut you off from Imperium first and foremost.

>> No.57073329

Not so sure about that. Pangaeans were half-spirit half-supernal monstrosities.

>> No.57073381

At worst you might lose access to your arcana for the duration. If you cast it permanently you are fucking yourself with anything less than 9 or 10 dots. But hay, maybe your personal goals don't involve Ascension just hammering out a new aspect of reality you are actively a god over.

>> No.57073591

This is a very strange and uncreative proposition. I don't think Archmasters are so short sighted to try and empower themselves by becoming anything other than what they are.

There's a lot of overlap between what you can and cannot pull off. Entities(Fate) mucking with the powers of the Gentry is something to note.

>> No.57073661

I never liked that. Seven dots should be messing with anything under 6+ status. It's seriously suggesting that the True Fae are just another vampire, werewolf or sin eater. It also gives the implication that the archmage can just use it to give herself all these god powers without working for them.

>> No.57073678


>> No.57073679

>It's awful, so don't bother. Clearly influenced by white wolf.

Even RitchT went all butthurt to say that fans shouldnt point out how much the book was stealing from Forsaken.

>> No.57073699

>Even RitchT went all butthurt to say that fans shouldnt point out how much the book was stealing from Forsaken.
Are there more details?

>> No.57073719

>seven dots
>can now molest vampires, werewolves and changelings
>but oh wait
>it can also molest true fae!
>forget giving yourself vampire powers
>give yourself true fae powers instead

See what I mean?

>> No.57073732

>Are there more details?

Not so far, everyone know OPP forums is not a place to express honest criticism but to suck dev cock/vagina or everything in between.


I wish I knew enough about computors to constantly dox their shitty forums.

>> No.57073762

True Fae and Changelings would both be considered 'Greater Templates'

>> No.57073767

I do, but whats the problem? Archmage is a game about fighting gods, the primary antagonists are the primary antagonists of the entire World of Darkness. The plot to every gameline starts with "First the Exarchs fucked the world, then some more stuff happened and now we're here"

The idea that True Fae should be sacrosant to that is just your bias. It'd be like if Sin-Eaters complained that Moros Archmages made the Underworld or something.

>> No.57073794

I feel like every time RichT gets ultra defensive its because something sketch is going on or he views it as an attack against him personally. He acted similarly when accused of putting the changeling preview behind a paywall. Also when people were critical of his logos. How does a man who can't take critique end up in an industry where literally the only value is someones opinion of the media?

Not to mention they usually only seem to take feedback from sycophants so nothing actually improves.

>> No.57073807

I don't think you get it. By enabling entities/excisions to fuck with 6+ beings you're basically minmaxing at this point. You might as well say that spirit 7 can molest Luna or copy her powers.

it's not bias i just fint it genuinely weird and irksome that you can do this at two dots before 9

>> No.57073857

So you don't like archmagic. That's fine. But arguing about how it works just puts you in the wrong.

That's what makes it bias there anon.

>> No.57073859

>Also when people were critical of his logos


>> No.57073905

RichT did a lot of the group symbols in OWoD. When he did some for Scion iirc someone on the forums said the old ones are better and he flipped.

>> No.57073914

>It'd be like if Sin-Eaters complained that Moros Archmages made the Underworld or something.


>> No.57074092

Sanguinary Animism could be a good one. I had an interesting idea for an antitribu with it and the flaw where you believe you need to eat the heart and flesh of your victims to draw sustenance, which I plan to do if my storyteller ever runs a Sabbat game.

>> No.57074207

Has everyone seen Chris Allen's Forsaken extras on the OPP forums? They're pretty good, and more are coming.

If Rich doesn't hire Chris as the new Forsaken developer, it will be a crime against role-playing games.

>> No.57074283


What an insecure child

>> No.57074361

>There are no Tzimisce antitribu

V20 says there are, actually, but that they're extremely rare and are usually just using the Camarilla as a temporary cover rather than a permanent place to belong, and the Tzimisce don't feel the need to expend vast resources to hunt down the small numbers that openly call the Camarilla their home.

>> No.57074436

I like the werewolves as magic drug dealers one.

>> No.57074753

Everything but schizophrenia and mpd. Megalomania, paranoia, bulimia are particularly great because they're behaviors you already have as a PC with an extra chance to lose control of yourself and do the worst thing like a vampire.

>> No.57075302


>> No.57075313

A strong delusion. They simply think they are someone or something they are not. Like a trannie vampire desperately trying to find someone to teach him vicissitude.

Or less contentiously, a vampire who THINKS he's an Elder awakening from Torpor and speaks with the refined manner of an Eastern European noble but is in fact a Malkavian who was embraced last Tuesday.

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