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[ERROR] No.56812434 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Blood Anglets getting replaced by Primaris Edition

>Fill in the survey, ask GW for Jimmy Broadway as Visarch model

>Dark Angels Preview

>Daily Dunked Peaches

>FAQs, Errata, and Designer Commentary (up to 1.3):

>Rules and such. Use Readium on pc/iphone, lithium/kobo on android:
>Everything 8th edition in properly converted pdf & epub, fully bookmarked and linked with in-line errata annotations

>Other Megas

>Old Black Library Mega

>Math-hammer (thank Autism!)

>> No.56812455

First for people are fucking retarded.

>> No.56812479

And we'll follow up those dubs with confirmation that:

You can shoot characters that have a wound characteristic of 10+.

You can overwatch characters if the defending unit is not engaged.

You can't choose not to fight in the fight phase.

Anyone who argues should be dragged out of the store and shot.

>> No.56812480

1th for Lamenters being relevant again.

>> No.56812495

>You can shoot characters that have a wound characteristic of 10+.
>You can overwatch characters if the defending unit is not engaged.
Not until faq clarifies

>> No.56812498

Where dis flowchart at

>> No.56812503

Yes, but can you target a character in a psy phase? Or in a Fight phase with something like the Music of the Apocalypse?

>> No.56812514


>> No.56812516

What? The Blood Angels Primaris have the geneseed flaws? That's lore rape.

>> No.56812525


Besides "you can choose what to summon " what's good for summoning?

Like shit its also basically a guaranteed wound.

>> No.56812530

Summoning is shit, there's no reason to use it in matched play other than to avoid detachment limitations or reduce drops for first turn advantage.

>> No.56812531

>scions with melta/plasma spam and Tonga trukks accompanied by assassins and deathwatch
Could it be viable? If so, how? I want an inquisition strikeforce

>> No.56812533

It's in the BRB you can shoot characters with wounds of 10+

>"This does not apply to CHARACTERS with a Wounds characteristic of 10 or more, due to their sheer size."

CA does not change this at all.

>"Any enemy CHARACTER with less than 10 wounds can only be targeted if it is both visible to the firer..."

It does not specify 10 REMAINING wounds, it says flatly, a character with less than 10 wounds.

Report for summary execution please.

>> No.56812541

Does anybody have a Mega or some sort of repository for the horus heresy audiobooks? I remember finding at least the first three in the series in audiobook format around a year ago here.

I don't have 50 shekels for a single book in audio format.

>> No.56812549

Nope! It's always been they don't have them YET, Anon. It's currently happening.

>> No.56812556

Targeting characters only applies during the Shooting Phase. It is clearly stated in the BRB.

>> No.56812558

Anyone k ow what the rough ratios should be with water:paint:thinner?

>> No.56812560

when /40k/ plays their games, do they declare all their actions like in battle reports? what's the etiquette on chatter?

>> No.56812561


Well, it wasn't a "flowchart", as much as a list of criteria.

>Red: Fluff
>Yellow: Gameplay
>Green: Models
>Blue: Price

>> No.56812563

>Las cannon is more effective than a fucking flamer or blast weapon against swarms

What the fuck gw

>> No.56812579

They specified characteristic and didnt in CA.

>> No.56812581

It's because of the way damage now works.

>> No.56812582

>Alpha legion intentionally pushing the primaris angels to go into the thirst

For what purpose?

>> No.56812585

>Summoning is shit, there's no reason to use it in matched play

I use it to get my Bloodletters 9" away. Because they won't make it to the 9" marker if they were running.

>> No.56812588

So you can't shoot anyone with Music of the Apocalypse because you can't target anyone? You can't cast Infernal gaze? Fuck off.

>> No.56812590

They also didn't capitalize 'Wounds' in CA so therefore we can guess that 'wounds' are something new that no one has on their datasheet, so it's moot.

>> No.56812592


Whoa guess that Trumps CA too.

>> No.56812594

>a week’s worth of discussion on this stupid CA rewording
>when no one ever will use this spam in a game, and every single tourney will slap it down in a single blow
I just want to talk about my gay marines

>> No.56812595

They were probably trying to bait them into the rage, more than the thirst.

>> No.56812600

No, I posted the character entry to show that people whining about not targeting characters is only ever a thing in the shooting phase.

You can blast the fuck out of them with psychic powers or hit them with Music attacks. Don't be a retard. Read. Reading is good. You're not illiterate, clearly, so use your fucking brain.

>> No.56812611

>We do not and can not have knowledge about that.

But we do because just like judges are the appliers of abstract laws to tangible situations. Players are the appliers of game rules to tangible situations. Therefore it is their duty to decide how to apply them.

>What about laws that are completely nonsensical?

There are various situations they can appear in.
But the one i think you tried to refer to are laws that are so nonsensical that they are not applied by any legal body. I dont have the english translation of it but such things exist.

In other cases if you think the laws are unjust-nonsensical etc. You can take them to the Supreme Courts, provided they are non-conforming to the constitution itself.
Since there is no equivelent for plastic toy soldier fighting rules it is not a relevant question.
You can apply what i have written beforehand to them.

>> No.56812616

Blame the autists who LOOK for anything possible to shit on GW for. It’s ridiculous

>> No.56812617

More leaks of the BA?

>> No.56812619

Yeah and why don't they fix it.
You should only take 1 damage max for swarms. That was the entire fucking point.

Fucking nurgling swarms are actually WEAKER against high damage attacks.

>> No.56812624

>he thinks discussion happens on 40kg, instead of autistic shitflinging

>> No.56812642

leave the retards or you'll get covered in drool. It's not worth it man.

>> No.56812643

That change we will need to wait for an FAQ about, cause we've already established GW rules authors are autistic as fuck.

It's retarded and I know I won't be using that rule nor will anyone else in my group cause it doesn't make sense. This is different from the inbred talking all philosophical and trying to save his ass from the frying pan; Being incapable of shooting cause you've got shit on radar but can't see it is retarded.

>> No.56812657

Like thank God they streamlined EVERY thing that was unique. Now everything is a fucking monsterous creature.

>> No.56812667

>2cp for this


Dork Angles get cucked!

>> No.56812669


It's not perfect but it's better than being able to snipe a character because you've lined up two of your transports on either side of the unit so that only a character on the other side of the board surrounded by the rest of their army is visible and target-able.

>> No.56812673

Because now damage doesn't spill over you fucking idiot. That's why you have to slow-roll d3/d6 damage against models with multiple wounds. If you have 3 and someone hits you with 3 lascannons, he could throw 1, 1, and the last dice doesn't matter, since he will kill the model with 2 marked damage. Likewise, if you get hit with 2 5 and 4, you don't mark off 11 damage. You mark 2 on one, then 1 to kill the model and the 4 remaining go away, and then the 4 damage gets marked on the second model and the 1 remaining goes away.

>> No.56812675

I just notice that Storm Bolter do less damage than Bolter in the mathhammer file.
How? They have double the output from the get go

>> No.56812679

Eh it depends on what you use that’s falling back.

>> No.56812683

I can't believe how incompetent GW are with this CA shit.
How fucking hard is it to copy paste a rule that was working and only change what needed to be changed? They clearly know how to copy paste judging from chapter tactics and stratagems.
For fuck sake the way it's currently worded the new first turn rule ONLY applies to the new missions released in CA because no where in CA does it apply this new rule to the old missions, it didn't even get FAQ'd in.
The only good thing to come out of this stupid book are the points changes, which should have just been a few FAQ's or a single large points FAQ, and the Battlezones optional rules.

>> No.56812687

Do you guys have any of these?

>> No.56812688

You're missing the entire point of the discussion. Yes, it says so in the rulebook. But CA overrides that exact passage with another one, where Shooting Phase part is removed, thus causing all kinds of confusion.

>> No.56812693

Have you guys painted any Lime or yellow green colours? I want to use them for my bugs chitin plates but I am utterly useless for colours

>> No.56812707

Sounds viable. I do Scions, Bullgryn and Tanks with Assasisns and Inquisitors and it does well.

>> No.56812711


In general it's very little water to your paint. In my experience it's pretty much a 'feel' thing. I place a small amount of paint down on my palette (maybe two or three brushes full using a small base brush), then putting the tip of the brush into my water for less than half a second, and mixing that water into the paint. That's typically sufficient to thin it out for me, anyway. If you watch any of the WarhammerTV painting tips videos, you can see Duncan applying this method as well.

>> No.56812712

I guess? But let's be honest, for vehicles you have a HUGE space to cover if you want that to happen, and you're probably not going to be able to block off things that hard.

And you've got better things to do than snipe characters and waste time.

>> No.56812715

What are you working on /tg/?

I am putting the finishing touches on my Knight. I'm happy with it, mostly.

>> No.56812720

ooooo, is Corbulo detecting the Flaw, or is it autism transmitted by the Cawlian heretical geneseed?

>> No.56812732

For reference I thought about Escorpena green (moot green) as base layer, shades with Biel-tan green and highlights with yellow (flash gitz / flat yellow)

>> No.56812734

That math-anon incorporates assumed unit sizes into his math, which can make it hard to read if you don't check the relevant column in the row - I don't know what army you're looking at, but e.g. on a tactical squad of SMs, where only the sergeant has a storm bolter, the storm bolter row will list 1 storm bolter's absolute damage, while the bolter row will be for probably 4 or 5 marines, and then down below in the efficiency section, he divides the assumed unit size back out to fix it.

I assume his rationale is somehow making it easier to account for rules that depend on unit size, like gants and grots have.

>> No.56812737

The CA block specifies 'firer' meaning a shooting attack.

>> No.56812740

Finishing painting up Rough Riders. Thinking about painting my Basilisk, Manticore, Taurox Prime and Acolytes next.

>> No.56812741

Yeah but flamers still do less than a las cannon.

Las cannon ignores the saves and can easily one shot swarm, the saves would ignore flamer hits and the fnp is stronger against flamers as nurglings.

The only situation it's better if you roll a shit ton of 1 damage.

>> No.56812742

What are the chances that in 5-9 years GW will act like Primaris Marines are the only Space Marines and never feature old Marines and old special characters ever again?

>> No.56812754

As far I know they are currently plan to release Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Chaos Daemons.

Any rumour about the next codex release after Daemons?

>> No.56812759

It’s legit FLG’s fault. They’re so stupid and monovisioned it’s actively ruining the game. They changed character targeting cause of one stupid cheeese, instead of doing this:

>opposed to normal rules of targeting enemies, you may not target an enemy character with a wounds characteristic of 9 or less if visible enemy units are closer (note if LOS is blocked by your own units, this does not apply)
>if a character has no friendly units within 6”, it may be targeted normally (they’re all alone in the open!)

>> No.56812763


Tau or Necrons.

>> No.56812780

If they get the daemon save then they have as good a chance of surviving 4 flamer hits as they do 1 lascannon hit one-shotting one of them. You're barking up the wrong tree Anon, let it go. You don't want them to add a clause "weapons that auto-hit or have additional shots vs units with higher model counts double their shots" or something, do you?

>> No.56812781

I’m sorry

>> No.56812784

It's actually pretty easy, angle two rhinos/razorbacks fish of fury style and have a las dev squad peaking through the front crack to whatever narrow spot on the battlefield you want.

We had to house rule this because it was getting to be such a problem, especially for units like Gulliman or larger/taller tyranid characters with less than 10 wounds that stand out from the crowd.

Killing Gulliman or sniping out Malenthropes turn 1 is the exact opposite of wasting time. If somebody could roll up, block LOS on everything except my Pedro Kantor. And instantly snipe him with a few las-cannons my list would fall apart pretty early without the re-rolls or buff auras.

>> No.56812789

Nothing yet but I really really want pic related.

>> No.56812797

Then you must be shit at screening units. That's why you wrap them. I guess it's why we've never had problems at my store.

>> No.56812801

Everything you just wrote is worth more than entire CA and I wish you wrote the rules for GW because I honestly can't think of a way to break or abuse that wording.
Although I just remembered one last good thing about CA but it's related to points values, thanks to GW balancing FW now my local store no longer bans FW for in store tourneys.

>> No.56812806


I'm expecting them to release xeno codex.

But I hope that they release the ork codex little later because I hope that they will also release the Gorkamorka game at the same time.

>> No.56812813

To be fair, thats good for any unit. Charge your Land Raider in for a turn to keep itself save from shooting, than fall back the next turn and keep shooting.

>> No.56812818

Looking at SoB.

>> No.56812844

Kind of or I want the nurglings thing reversed.

It just implies the opposite playstyle they used to be. Like shooting your big shot against them used to be a horrible idea because you hit only one dude in the swarm which was pretty cool. It would make sense they dont get a fnp against that but it's like they forgot to reduce the damage.

I miss specialization, like one thing trumps another.

>> No.56812856

What are you talking about? We still have that.

Lascannon trumps everything. :^)

>> No.56812867

E.g. Battle Sisters are exactly as I just described - a Storm Bolter is 1 Storm Bolter, but a Bolter is 5 of them.

>> No.56812869

It means nothing if a rhino blocks the stuff on the ground but not the stuff that's big and peaks above the rhino.

>> No.56812873

Sorry anon, THQ died and with them all hope of quality 40k games.

>> No.56812884

Then you and your bunch are a lot of RAW fags who all qualify as a collective bunch of 'That guy' who need to get laid and mellow the fuck out.

>> No.56812888

Guess I’ll have to modify it. No sane person will ever run less than 2

>> No.56812890

Sounds like the people you play with are the ones who suck at screening, I can't really think of any reasonable scenario where a unit that's technically closer to you on the other side of a piece of terrain than the character is, then I'd assume there's a clear and direct path to the character for assaulting or further movement to make them the closest unit.

That's also why I specified it was a problem for the larger character models, Rowboat Girlyman stands quite a bit taller than most of the chaff units you surround him with, same with Malenthropes and almost anything with a jumppack.

Moral of the story being I shouldn't be able to snipe out characters due to line of sight shenanigans because of RAW. And I doubt the new rule would break all but a few rare scenarios, in which case I would recommend walking CLOSER towards a character out in the open alone.

>> No.56812893

It's really dumb because swarms are supposed to be a bunch of models condensed on one model. Like whats next Las cannon spill on units?

>> No.56812899

We aren't, the few people who tried to bullshit that with us we told no after the first few times it happened. But in a competitive setting shit like that needs to be in place.

>> No.56812900

I’d be a little surprised if you couldn’t choose to not fight in the fight phase. I’d also be confused as to why you wouldn’t fight in the fight phase given the enemy can leave combat, and this his friends will shoot you regardless of if you kill him.

I mean, there have been times where I didn’t fire a weapon because I drew “blood and guts” and needed to charge. But not wanting to stab a fucker? Never happened.

>> No.56812904

>lmao ur bad kid git gud
>no wait ur just some tryhard loser

It's like I'm really on /v/

>> No.56812906


I'm in a weird position with my hobby. I've got a ton of models that I want to finish from my Dark Angels army and my Death Guard army, but I have a hard time working up the nerve to finish them since I have so much to do.

I made the mistake of purchasing all the models very quickly instead of only a box or two at a time, and basically gave myself an obscene work load. Pic semi-related.

>> No.56812911

>Screens his dudes
>Bitches about "waacfas" that found a way around screens

Dear God help us there's more than one tactic of screening you fucking faggot.

>> No.56812913

No different from IG HWTs dying to lascannons quickly, although IG HWTs have had rules problems in every edition I'm aware of, since they've simply never behaved like two models on one base. Similar problem with SM Attack Bikes.

>> No.56812922

But there is no tactic against niggers who wanna be niggers.

Sad but true.

>> No.56812925

I already have a squad of DW terminators. Should I get another one or one of DW knights?

I'm partial to the knights because they look great.

>> No.56812930


At least with attack bikes you can sorta assume that if the bike itself gets taken out then the sidecar spins out and crashes.

>> No.56812934

To be honest that was the payoff to have cheap Las cannons. While swarms are the complete opposite who were suppose to have an edge over stuff like Las cannons.

>> No.56812957

Get the knights. They're fucking great and there's that new strat that'll impose -1 to wound on attacks made against them.
I recommend ferrying them in a crusader though with an interrogator-chaplain for those rerolls

>> No.56812962

LR getting constantly tied up in melee is why they suck, having to pay 2 cp every turn doesn't suddenly make them much to make them much more appealing than storm ravens.

>> No.56812982

not only that, but now DA will have access to Stormravens.

Stormraven + DWK = win

>> No.56812985

I have Custodes one?
Do you have Ahriman playing chess audiobook?

>> No.56812988

Are Obliterators any good?

>> No.56812995

>all the rules are gone now the only thing you do is make a ball of dudes with a character at the center maybe put them in cover
>No reason to flank or spread out your guys or pick which armored side the tank is showing

Checkers are more complex. That game has more emphasis on positioning and flanking.

>> No.56813001

Deepstrike 10 men squad consist of 5 Hammernator + 5 Shooty Termies can be quite nasty. Gives them Belial or interrogator-chaplain for rerolls and they rekt anything they charge or being charged.

Knight is cool to.

>> No.56813012

How do they disembark from the stormraven? in hover mode? and can they end up within 9" of enemies that way?

>> No.56813016

>play GSC
>have tau player bitching about not being able to kill my characters as easily
>mfw he just spams commanders
>mfw I won my first game of 8th yesterday.

>> No.56813017

We've gotten the stormraven?

>> No.56813018

Quite good yes.

Particularly with Slaanesh keyword.

>> No.56813023

how did you win?

>> No.56813024

Yes, 4 shots each makes then useable

>> No.56813029

if it doesn't specify they can hop out the same way they would a rhino.

Valks for instance tell you specifically how it should happen differently from the regular disembarking rules.

>> No.56813031

loading up a valk with dkok engineers sounds fun desu

>> No.56813036

No need to hover, just disembark anywhere within 3" of the SR before you moves.
> can they end up within 9" of enemies that way?

>> No.56813040

Yeah one unit is but they're support instead of a backbone unit. If you were to take two groups of them then plasma terminators would be better.

>> No.56813042

I love me some GSC.

I really hate how their trucks have BS4 though... irrationally so.

>> No.56813049

Why does Corbulo have "deep disquiet" over heretics being torn to pieces?

>> No.56813052

well shit ima buy one

>> No.56813055

Why would they have anything but BS4+?

>> No.56813068

It's about how violent the Primaris got, not that they killed the Alpha Legion.

>> No.56813071

Lucky ambush rolls and throwing a patriarch and 15 purestrains at stuff while a bunch of neophytes bombarded him with lasguns and heavy weapons. There was also a rock grinder with some hybrids that killed a commander

>> No.56813091

I dunno, guess I'm just used to Tauroxes.

>> No.56813092

Yea they're great.
Especially Slaanesh Obliterators.
Best taken in small units as a deepstriking unit, with the points drop in Sorcerer in Terminator Armor deepstrike one of those with them and cast Delightful Agonies and Prescience on them, then use Veterans of the Long War and Endless Cacophony stratagems, pump 3 command points and 2 psychic powers into this one unit and go nova it's hilarious. For double bonus points deepstrike a Jump Pack Chaos Lord too.

>> No.56813095

Is there a top tier SM list that doesn't Guilliman?

>> No.56813104

>top tier list
>not taking the single most blatantly overpowered model in the game

>> No.56813112

When deploying, does putting a unit into deep strike count as a drop? Or do I set all my deep strikers aside?

>> No.56813121

I feel for you. It's frustrating having BS4+ on a transport that wants to be moving all the time. Hitting on 5s is awful. It makes me understand why Ork players go for mobs of boys. It's a big reason why I made my Chimeras be 2 Heavy Flamers. That has been an amazing pay off.

>> No.56813124


>retreat is often the most tactical choice

Mighty space marines, how fearless they are

>> No.56813145

Yeah, the changes to how vehicles work suddenly means that those transports with heavy weapons on them can't do their job and shoot, its crazy considering how much they fucking cost now.

>> No.56813151

Its possible to make ork and eldar list without primarchs, so there must be a way.

>> No.56813155

Most dedicated transports should be like 50% off tbqh.

>> No.56813168

1 unit counts as a drop. It's a nice way to force your opponent to show more of his deployment zone when you keep saying you put 1 in deepstrike. Keep in mind in matched play, only half your units can deepstrike, the other half has to be on the board. Also for counting units on the board, you count the ones in transports too. So a Chimera filled with 2 Characters and an infantry squad would count as 4 units on the table.

>> No.56813169

I bought a metal plasma Cadian, realized he had a backpack battery and the plastic Cadians didn’t, and so resolved to spend the whole week kitbashing plasma Cadians together.

>> No.56813200

Painting a model for my secret santa as part of their gift (an Ork nob conversion). Also painting an Ork Weirdboy and Waaagh!!! Banner conversion, alongside my batch painting of 33-34 boyz and a DG Helbrute. Lotza work.

>> No.56813202

At the very least the swarm might be dense enough that the lascannon is slicing clean through multiple individuals in a line like the old WHF cannons.

>> No.56813214

>how fearless they are
Ld 8. Rerolling Failed Morale Tests.

Which is more than their Chaotic Counterparts

>> No.56813221

What's the title of the one about ahriman?

>> No.56813236

Any GSC players here give me a quick rundown of what's best for each unit?

What upgrades, weapons etc?

Ideas for a cult name?

>> No.56813238

How do we fix them design wise?

>> No.56813249

I finished building my Chimera but I don't have much to make it Chaos for my R&H except for a chaos star around a skull on the hatch and some extra spikes, I intend on adding chains before painting though.
I should start building my knight but I'm planning a kitbash with a Toxicrene to make it Slaaneshi and I don't have a Toxicrene box yet.
I also need to paint more of my Noise Marines and Renegade Vostroyans (disciples and marauders)

>> No.56813255

>boyz mob
>leadership 30 w/other leadership buffs

>> No.56813268

less muscles, more servos

>> No.56813269

My digits will confirm that your cult should be named "Inbred Child Molester Cult".

>> No.56813291

55 points Repressors!
Yes please!

>> No.56813293

They look great for an Imperium unit (gives me so Fantasy/Sigmar vibes) but for an admech unit they lack a lot of cybernetics. Not sure if theres a fluff reason for that but it seems non-suiting regardless.

>> No.56813297

Retreat is not cowardice. Fleeing is cowardice. Different things entirely.

>> No.56813316

>inbred molester cult
told you

>> No.56813348

yes, also indicate the success roll you need
otherwise it's just *roll* *roll* "okay now take 10 wounds off your predator"
"wait what did you just do?"

>> No.56813359

The problem is with troops not with transports, there's no value for them in doing anything between huge melee blob and long range heavy weapons. Most armies can deepstrike their elites as well.

>> No.56813363

Key of Infinity

btw here custodes advent one

>> No.56813385

well this brightens my mood

>> No.56813392

I did the same with my dudes, it helps if you only have a squad of dudes out in front of you so hide the rest in your closet until you're finished with that box

>> No.56813401

>Ideas for a cult name?
Genocratic metakinesis (literally synonyms for "democratic movement)

"we vote by raising of hands"

>> No.56813403

we're happy for you, Brian Hayne!

>> No.56813408

Make their skin bronze,
Change the rest of the color scheme to work with bronze skin.

>> No.56813413

>dedicated transports should be like 50% off
>Razorback with Twin Assault Canno for under 80pts.

Yup. Nothing can possibly go wrong.

>> No.56813417

But what about paper codexes?

>> No.56813420

What special weapons do I give to my Grenadiers ?

>> No.56813421

Holy shit what a picture.

>> No.56813423

no fucking way, I've wanted to do stormraven+knights+chaplain Dreadnought forever

>> No.56813427

The Esoteric Order of Hydra

>> No.56813434


More plugs and gears and shit. I generally give them a pass because I find the underlying concept cool, but I think they missed the mark by not making them the example of taking the Cult Mechanicus ideals to the extreme and making them men, half engine living electricity generators.

>> No.56813436

One that suits their use.

>> No.56813439


>> No.56813444

Fuck me, I'm getting the urge to 'buy a new army' even though I never thought It'd happen. I've still got a good amount of Death Guard to paint up and finish, but Genestealer Cults look so cool.

>Look rad
>No named character bullshit
>No Primarchs
>Shotguns, mining lasers and rocksaws and shit

>> No.56813445

The cult of the gropy tentacle

>> No.56813448

i just write in the changes/corrections along with a reference to where i took it from and which version.

>> No.56813456

>So a Chimera filled with 2 Characters and an infantry squad would count as 4 units on the table.

And only counts as one drop... which is stupid. Should be 1 drop per unit regardless. Even if its
>Commissar Fuckface is a setup inside Chimera "Emperor Save the Queen"

>> No.56813459

they'll ship you whiteout
So nice to have a fuckhuge amount of things changed in your codex, by CA or FAQ, barely 2 months after you paid full price for it :^)

>> No.56813460

so the specific instance flamers being better than lascannons against nerglings, means that there is no specilization?
I mean, being t2 so everything wounds on 2+, and and invuln save means that most high str dmg or rend are a waste of time, but now there is an advantage to using d2+ weapons instead of just spamming weak shots.

It's not like there are no units where you just have a lot of cheap models and armor save, so the lascannon doesn't give advantage for it's higher points cost. I mean it's not like looking in the same codex i don't see cultists, poxwalkers, and plaguebearers.

nurglings are instead extra specilized in that you want high damage, but get no other benefit from the high str or AP that goes with it often. A lascannon can one shot a nurgling swarm, if they fail the save and you roll 4+ for damage (so 1/3 chance if hit and wound), but the lascannon by itself cost more than the nurgling swarm.

>> No.56813467

Excluding weapons.

>> No.56813469

>Everything about them seems cool but their heads look fucking retarded for me

This happens Everytime, always that one thing visually that puts me off.

>> No.56813470

cult subtly infected by nurgle it must be

my digits check you must

>> No.56813471


GSC is legit one of the top-tier armies in terms of aesthetics and concept, too bad they rely too heavy on ambush roles and while they can nitpick units from 2 super strong armies, they don't get any of their bonuses

>> No.56813485


That sounds like a plan. I'm probably going to have to sit down and write a To-Do list so that I can get my armies handled so I won't feel so overwhelmed. lol. My Dark Angels are all loose and assembled, as I have been collecting and playing with them for some time, but a lot of them remain unpainted as I collected faster than I hobbied, but a lot of my Death Guard is still in boxes, so I should be able to get myself to a point where it's all manageable.

>> No.56813486


>> No.56813492

Thanks a lot anon, but unfortunately I don't have the one about ahriman.

>> No.56813494

its called autism sir

>> No.56813495

no good way to handle it.
If you declare contents and have it count as multiple drops, you can then force your opponent to drop 4 units in a row.
If you declare contents after dropping the vehicle, you get put down all your transports first, then put in their contents after you know what your opponent dropped.

With finishing deployment only giving +1 to the go first roll now, it's not huge advantage over your opponent getting to respond to your deployment.

>> No.56813501

>means that there is no specilization
Yeah, everything that isn't a unit full of models is just a monsterous creature but without the keyword.

If anything they are weaker terminators

>> No.56813504

when Sanguinius

>> No.56813520

I start work tonight but I am getting anxiety about it. I was supposed to be third shift which would have been easy to get to but now I'll have to work from the afternoon till after midnight and it's going to put a strain on my family with getting me there and stuff until I can get a vehicle of my own.

Not underage just a NEET trying to get his life back on track and really regretting it. Buses aren't even an option because our public transportation might as well be non-existent and if I bike or walk I know someone will run over me because haha FUCK PEDESTRIANS AND CYCLISTS.

I know it's not 40k related but I'm anxious and don't have anywhere else to vent or anyone to vent to. I'd like to start up the hobby again once I get paid, though.

>> No.56813524

Put Skitarii heads on them

>> No.56813528


pretty sure anything other than hotshot las since the range is so small, but on the other hand if you're planning on suiciding them against infantry i guess it works

>> No.56813529

when they can make it a primaris primarch first

>> No.56813533


note the word OFTEN that is in there.

>> No.56813546

going to a 1500 pt semi-casual charity tourney soon. I think I am going to run a meme list and see how it goes. I am thinking about dropping something to give the bloat his flamer back so I can hit people with 6d6 s7 -1 1dmg auto hits that reroll all wounds but the only options seems to be a weaker knight, a weaker helbrute or no herald to heal them

>DG battalion
DP of N with wings/talons/miasma/supp. plate/arch contaminator warlord trait
Sorcerer with plague wind and curse of the leper
3x Cultists
helbrute with missiles/lascannons
bloat with mower
2x flamer crawlers

Knight with 2 thermal cannons

Herald of nurgle

>> No.56813548

>Excluding weapons.
I was.

Razorback (70) + Twin Assault Cannon (44) = 114pts

Razorback (70/2 = 35) + Twin Assault Cannon (44) = 79pts

>> No.56813554


I missed something. What happened?

>> No.56813561


>> No.56813565

Just a reminder they felt THIS was 14 power points more valuable than the fellblade there.

>> No.56813569

I just don't want to play an army that I'll hate looking at.

Like i just want dudes that are big and bulky but aren't edgelords or special snow flakes.
Which just barely leaves me with space marines. But I feel like they don't trip anything because their lore is so fucking vanilla which is boring.

>> No.56813577

only some SM at that

>> No.56813578

Well do your best buddy.

>> No.56813579

Why is the stompa so damn overpriced? Reeeeeeeee.

>> No.56813580

>I'd like to start up the hobby again once I get paid,
you poor fool

>> No.56813589

I'm still pissed.
>49 power
>For a unit that only outputs 15 power worth of damage

>> No.56813600

>Beleaguered Union of Genocratic Subservients
>National Socialist Party of Tyran Worker Unions
Brotherhood of Hardworking Individualistic Visionaries for Emancipation

>> No.56813602

Could be worse, I work 3rd 7 to 7 with no breaks and literal back breaking work (have to go to a chiropractor for this job every once in a while)

>> No.56813605

This helped me get a ton of my angels done quickly, blessed be our saint lol

>> No.56813609

>no good way to handle it.
I'd personally handle it as follows
>Put a unit in Alternate Deployment.
>Place a unit on the Board.
>Embark a unit on a Transport that hasn't been set up yet.

>it's not huge advantage over your opponent getting to respond to your deployment.
Just annoying when I'm punished for not having transports as an option.

>> No.56813612

Halt there humble merchant, the Imperium searches these dunes for a good tallern army list. Comply immediately with relevant information.

>> No.56813618

I switched their heads for the ones on the Neophyte squad they look better in my opinion.

>> No.56813619


That would actually be easier for me to get to and from.

>> No.56813620

Keywords special notes have been removed besides fly.

>> No.56813621

Yes, retreat is a widely used tactical choice.

>> No.56813623

They have a ton of options. Squad size is 5-10 men, with two special weapons per squad + a heavy flamer team. They have access to all special weapons options available to IG, plus the heavy stubber. However, the only way they can infiltrate is by using Centaurs.

Right now, I'm planning of playing one squad of them in my infantry blob, probably armed with a pair of plasma guns. Flamers would be a waste of their 3+ BS, meltaguns are too expensive, grenade launchers are shit. Stubbers might be an interesting choice.

>> No.56813626

Infiltrating Baneblade

>> No.56813635

Explain. Aren't they still in the core rulebook? What removed them?

>> No.56813642

I would kill for dwarves.
I thought about space wolves but they're like the Luigi of warhammer or that dude with a tribal tattoo.

>> No.56813653


>> No.56813655


they've been FAQ'd to have 2 wounds now, yeah?

>> No.56813666

What? How? Does all damage carry over now?

>> No.56813668

+1 to go first is only for CA missions and ITC tournaments. In normal games it's still who finished first goes first.

>> No.56813674

Get a factory job then anon.

GOOD LUCK and take all the stuff they say about lifting seriously. Also get some really fucking good insoles. Pay and benefits are amazing but hard as balls work that's respectable and typically has growth options.

>> No.56813676

No, they only have 1 wound like ordinary soldiers. The heavy flamer team has 2 wounds though, like the other heavy weapons team.

>> No.56813679

>swarm keyword doesn't have special rules.
>there is no specilization in the entire game.

yeah some neat things were lost when the shit ton of things you need to go back to tables and glossaries for was taken out.

>18 points to 31.
Sure, things that cost 2/3s should be considered the same. And it's not like high str and rend matter against the termis while they are wasted on the nurglings.

>> No.56813680

You could do some sort of space wolf successor that abandoned the wolf stuff for more Viking stuff. My friend runs them and they seem pretty strong crunch wise

>> No.56813686

Nothing is stopping you from making a Marine chapter inspired by Dorfs. Set them up on a mining world, give them an artisan-heavy culture, etc.

>> No.56813689


I applied to multiple factory jobs but none of them cared. I only got the job I got through nepotism. It's maintenance at a mall. Kill me.

>> No.56813690

No, it doesn't.

>> No.56813694

No they're gone from the rule book because it was too much to read them. And they forgot to balance for this.

>> No.56813701

Rest of the BA timeline when?

>> No.56813704

Any thoughts on this? What needs tweaked?

>> No.56813706

So how could a lascannon possibly be better? You get 1 shot = 1 possible kill.

>> No.56813709

Make the model slightly smaller. They are huge dudes right now.

>> No.56813711

How much does this costs compared to a Baneblade, after CA?

>> No.56813722

Oh, you're just whining about the change to 8th edition.

No, lascannons aren't good at killing hordes. Extra damage doesn't spill from one model to the next unless it's Mortal Wounds.

>> No.56813728

Beam Weapon

I'm joking

>> No.56813750

Factories don't hire your first round. But they are always looking for people with hard work experience. Mostly because the job is incredibly serious and most people that start working are weak with hard labor.

Had like two year stacking and cook experience at McDonald's and got hired immediately.

>> No.56813759

I feel like the further this edition goes, the worse Grey Knights (most all elite armies actually) get
Console me tg

>> No.56813792


oh right right, i might take a closer look at them then, i was more inclined towards the general infantry squad for my troop choices

>> No.56813800

At least you're not Necrons!

>> No.56813809

We’re only going to get worse as more codexes release with more toys. And GW’s only excuse will be “the Grey Knights don’t need fancy baubles, they have their psychic might to rely on! Teehee.”
Only inclusion into the Inquisition book has the potential to help us.

>> No.56813813

I just stared collecting space marines, since it was so cheap to get 1k army. But I noticed that lgs plays 1.5k games primarily. Is this list halfway decent? Lgs is semicompetitive, so my list needs to be able to function against many opponents. Feel free to bash and hate a starting player.

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP
++ Battleforged +3cp
(Imperium - Space Marines) [87 PL, 1500pts] ++

+ HQ +

Primaris Captain [6 PL, 95pts]: Master-crafted auto bolt rifle, Power sword

Primaris Lieutenants [5 PL, 74pts]
. Primaris Lieutenant: Master-crafted auto bolt rifle

Primaris Lieutenants [5 PL, 74pts]
. Primaris Lieutenant: Master-crafted auto bolt rifle

+ Troops +

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 91pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle, 4x Intercessor, Intercessor Sergeant

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 91pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle, 4x Intercessor, Intercessor Sergeant

Tactical Squad [9 PL, 177pts]
. 7x Space Marine
. Space Marine Sergeant: Melta bombs
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher
. Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Meltagun

+ Elites +

Dreadnought [7 PL, 136pts]: Twin autocannon, Twin autocannon

Primaris Ancient [4 PL, 69pts]: Standard of the Emperor Ascendant

+ Fast Attack +

Inceptor Squad [10 PL, 135pts]: Assault bolter, 2x Inceptor, Inceptor Sergeant

Inceptor Squad [10 PL, 135pts]: Assault bolter, 2x Inceptor, Inceptor Sergeant

+ Heavy Support +

Devastator Squad [8 PL, 170pts]: Armorium Cherub
. Space Marine Sergeant
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon

Hellblaster Squad [8 PL, 165pts]: Plasma incinerator
. 4x Hellblaster
. Hellblaster Sergeant: Bolt pistol

+ Dedicated Transport +

Drop Pod [5 PL, 88pts]: Deathwind launcher

++ Total: [87 PL, 1500pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

>> No.56813833

Honestly Las cannons was just an example anything with 2 or 4 damage is better at killing hordes.

>> No.56813844

I play Tyranids and *I'm* happy.

>> No.56813849

>What are the chances that in 5-9 years GW will act like Primaris Marines are the only Space Marines and never feature old Marines and old special characters ever again?

Never feature old marines? Seems fairly likely, although probably going to take them the best part of a decade to phase out all the existing kits.

Act like primaris are the only marines? Doesn't seem that likely; chaos marines are going to be around in their current form for a while. Even if they invent a primaris equivalent for them or do chaos primaris, it will take longer to replace their range because it is less of a priority than the top sellers.

Never feature old special characters? Seems more likely that they will upgrade at least some of them into primaris.

>> No.56813852

no it isn't

>> No.56813854

It's not because damage doesn't spread from model to model

>> No.56813855

I’m tryin to find the marks of Chaos page in the CSM Codex, where is it exactly? And how does it work?

>> No.56813879

chapter approved pdf?

>> No.56813885

《THIS UNIT》 is now 《CHAOS MARK》 and can take 《ICON》 neat!

>> No.56813886

Because? If they have 4 wounds it is especially if they have ap and no invuln and the ones with invuln are weaker to multi damage.

>> No.56813901

When is Battlememe gonna update?

>> No.56813912

Here is what I am currently building toward.

Brother Captain w/nemesis stave + Relic storm bolter (warlord - first to the fray
3x10 strikes w/8 falchions+ storm bolter, 2 psilencers
1x10 interceptors w/8 falchions + 2 psilencers
3x5 Purgations w/1 falchion+ storm bolter, 4 psilencers

Vanguard Detachment
Company commander
5 x 1 Acolytes W/boltguns
Culexus Assassin
2x5 Purgations w/1 falchion+ storm bolter, 4 psilencers

Lets you drop, shunt or gate nearly all your good units into your enemies face. You dont have to be behind them, make sure every unit you can has at least one model within 6 of drago and unleash 320+ shots of win. Then even if they are a melee army, you have 60+ dudes with 2 attacks each at least with d3 damage.

>> No.56813914

Do icons cost points, and does the icon have to be visually represented on the model?

>> No.56813916

It doesn't need to?

Unless you litterally allocate ALL attacks to one dude.

>> No.56813933

In case you aren't trolling, damage doenst carry over. If you hit one guardsmen in a guard squad with one wound from a lascannon, and that wound then does 6 damage, only the one guardsman becomes super dead. You will never kill more then one guardsman with a single lascannon.

>> No.56813941

I hear you. I did a lot of Bullgryn and transports early on and everyone was like oh man those things are so tough and devastating! Now I play and people blow them away instantly and they don't do like anything. All my transports get popped turn 1 or all my anti-tank get popped turn 1. Melee still sucks. The more I play the less I want to. I cut things I love out to make sure I can have a chance at winning instead of wasting my time pulling my models 1 by 1.

>> No.56813970

>shoot lascannon at hordes
>hit, wound, enemy fails save
>roll 6 damage
>kill 1 model
Stop bullshitting

>> No.56813973

Okay, this is coming from an IG player so take his advice with a grain of salt.

Grab a couple more guys in that devistator squad. They aren’t there to hold weapons but to instead take hits. A couple 13 Point devistators with bolters who do nothing all game is way better than two 33 Point devistators getting wiped on turn 1 by a tank cannon and subsequently doing nothing all game.

>> No.56813979

SW are great, marines but more in line with what they should actually be like. Can inbed terminators in their squads, much looser weapon option restrictions, everyone has a chainsword so your marines are 2+ attacks. Assault squads have inherent +1 attack on charge. Wulfen are terminators with inherent 3/4 attacks, reroll charge and 5+++. Actual good melee dreads that don't get popped by a stiff breeze.

>> No.56813982

I still somehow get decently far with my deathwing, but I think that is because I mainly play in a horde meta with my guards, so suddenly bringing 25 models in my entire army fucks with them a bit.

>> No.56813987

If summons use powerlevel do I get all their optional wargear for free?

If it says they come with wargear as point payment do I get their optional stuff for free?

>> No.56813995

Your only option is to paint some black guardsmen and run as inquisition.

>> No.56813999

2-4 damage attacks anon.
Not Las cannons. that was an example.

>> No.56814016

Well considering that you have to pay for the summon itself im going to go with no you still have to pay for the wargear.

>> No.56814023

Do 4 damage. Kill one guardsman.
Unless you are very, very specifically thinking about flails, which have a very specific rule letting damage roll over because motherfucking flails, but even those are kind of only meh against hordes. They are best against MEQs.

>> No.56814039

Le epic ruse !

>> No.56814049

I feel like Artillery should have the ability for damage to spill over. Would finally make it usable.

>> No.56814050

God damn anon it's 2 or 4 damage against swarms not hordes. The things with 4 wounds.

>> No.56814055

okay, what are those 2-4 damage weapons that are good against guard hoards, or gaunt hoards, ork boy hoard, etc?

How are they better than a heavy bolter?

>> No.56814056

Saying that "retreat is often the most tactical choice" implies to me that they do this OFTEN.

You are really okay with an image of Space Marines OFTEN retreating?

>> No.56814059

anything that used to have a template should spill over wounds.

>> No.56814066

They cost points. The khorne one lets you reroll charges, the tzeentch one randomly throw out mortal wounds, etc. All equipment is meant to be WYSIWYG you big silly.

>> No.56814069

Thanks! I'll try to note that, I should have enough miniatures for that. It would certainly be sad to lose two lascannon marines in round 1..

>> No.56814084

It's swarms I meant to say swarms FUCK.

>> No.56814089

>All equipment is meant to be WYSIWYG you big silly.

>> No.56814094

Alright, that is actually true. Yeah, thats a problem.

>> No.56814113

Warmaster epub anyone?

>> No.56814114

Just give them a special rule that if the models in the target unit only have one wound each, damage spills over. Doesn't fuck over elite armies anymore, makes horde armies a bit more balances, and makes mechanized armies funner.

>> No.56814136

>daemon prince can't use boon

Gay, he'd benefit from that the most.

>> No.56814138

Now how do we get GW to see this and fix template weapons?

>> No.56814148

oh, okay.
So like 2 units in the game.

Nurglings, still get a 5+ save, and the high str is wasted.

A lascannon is 20 pts. If hit and wound then 1/3 are lost to save and only have those that get through kill a whole swarm, so they second shot is wasted.

There are no D4 weapons that I can think of, if they exist they are super rare, so lets use some D2 examples.

Over charged plasma? 13 pts to the 18 for the swarm, can kill the user. 1/3 get saved, no bonus for the str. Takes 2 unsaved wounding hits to kill.

Neither of those are very cost effective against the nurglings.

Now a flamer specifically isn't as amazing against them as it used to be, but they get 3.5 hits for 9 pts and wound and get through the invuln save the same.

So you are upset that one counter to one unit isn't what it used to be. cry some more.

>> No.56814151

If only get could listen to complaints some how... Hmm

>> No.56814157

Alright, I'm gonna use sm devistator squads as my example here, a 4 man lascannon squad costs you 165 points, meanwhile a 4 man heavy bolster squad costs you 105 points. The lascannon shoot 4 times hitting 2.67 times and wounding 2.22 times, against 4 wound models odds are you will wound one and kill another with no armor saves allowed, well give the lascannon favor and say they got a 3 and a 4 for damage equating to ~23.57 points per damage dealt

Meanwhile heavy bolters shoot 12 times, hitting 8, and wounding 5.33 times killing one base and bringing another down one wound equating to ~19.70 points per damage dealt

So no, lascannon are not more efficient at killing swarms, they may do it slightly faster, but you're devoting a larger part of your army to do it

>> No.56814169

There are also ripper swarms and scarab swarms. So... three units in the game?
It would be fucking hilarious if conscripts became a swarm unit though.

>> No.56814180

A fair amount of melee swings do 2 damage.
Which is what swarms were useful for gunking things up in melee.

>> No.56814184

Heavy weapon squads are also kind of a swarm, I guess. Can at least be justified by the weapon blowing up instead.

>> No.56814185

Yea if only. I wish i knew of some place like that.

>> No.56814195

It would be pretty great if flamers caused double hits to swarms. At least then it would be a gimmick weapon.

>> No.56814196

so a whole lot of extra rules to fit into the weapons text, because rules for weapons are not on the weapons text, with special rules being extremely limited, to help in a tiny very few cases.

Or you could realize that plenty of 'template' weapons are still good, even if not used exactly as they were before. And that the ones that aren't could be better helped on a case by case basis to make sure they fit.

The 'if targetting a unit of x or more, do you' is already used on a some weapons, and would probably fix the weapons that really need help to be good at being hoard killers if that's there only thing.

>> No.56814197

Like if only Games workshop did some kind of... large question gathering mission of the people who make up their audience.

>> No.56814201

I said Las cannons were just an example.

>> No.56814207

So a Manticore battery could one shot your primarch, pick off your vehicles or wipe 30 boys with the same unit. Yeah they'll finally be usable.

>> No.56814218

>It's still fine as a weaker version of the thing that is supposed to be the all rounder

>> No.56814227

How do we make them useful?
>inb4 shoot twice at half speed

>> No.56814234

To be honest would they actually read this in some hypothetical situation where they could actually see this.

>> No.56814240

Point reduction. Same thing for most unusable units

>> No.56814250

Mortal wounds after toughness passed.

>> No.56814254

most of those are either on hyper very expensive units, so them wasting a turn killing the nurglings is great, have -1 to hit, and/or are very expensive themselves to pay for the high str and rend that are worthless against nurglings.

There are a few melee weapons that are very good at countering nurglings for their points. Those weapons aren't super great against most other targets. So instead of there being 'no specialization' is is filling in a specialization.

flamers are still useful. Slightly overcost at 9pts, but they're still used.
Autohits is good, and the overwatch defense is good.

They aren't just the best counter to hoards anymore.

>> No.56814255

Codex >>> BL.

>> No.56814263

So I've been told to drill my barrels What does that mean?

>> No.56814265

No real point spending the money on that kind of thing if you don't actually read the answers. Chances are that they won't meticulously read over every single answer, but at the very least they will randomly read a large number of them.

>> No.56814278

Benis in tailpipe :DDDSD

>> No.56814281

Damage spill over, increase points.

>> No.56814287

that's really good dude

>> No.56814293


>> No.56814295

You see those nice, sexy mechanical barrels? Stick your "Drill" into them.

Alternatively, you can use a dremel to drill out the plastic in your gun and weapon barrels, to make them look better.

>> No.56814296


Yeah, about hte only weapons that one shot nurglings...are titan scale weapons with D6 or such. Which is really not points efficient.

>They aren't just the best counter to hoards anymore.

Honestly, there isn't yet a really good counter to hordes outside the punisher cannon for guard. Most armies could really do with some more anti-horde stuff.

>> No.56814309

>supposed to be.
where are you getting that?
It's good against things with that are hard to hit and overwatching, so long as those things aren't also very tough.
And okay against average infantry, better against light infantry.

It only lost 'is even better against really big clumped up units'.

>> No.56814318

There is the grax flux bombard. And... um....

>> No.56814322

>We might actually get plastic sisters

Huh don't know if I want that.

>> No.56814339

Aren't Hydras good against hoards?

>> No.56814359


they get -1 to hit if the target doesn't have FLY, right?

>> No.56814362

They are better against primaris and other elite armies because of the 2 damage. Hitting on 5s mean that on average, they only get 2-3 hits ground targets, which isn't really ideal.

>> No.56814365

>GW writes poorly written rules that are obviously fucky at first glance
>y u so mean to gee dub?
What's ridiculous is you fanboys that refuse to acknowledge the company's faults. Chapter Approved fails to address any significant balance concerns, fails to add meaningful options or flavor or power to the Index armies, and fails to add interesting new options for gameplay.

>> No.56814376

Fuck, I meant Wyverns.

>> No.56814380

they managed to fix ratlings

>> No.56814390

If youre doing open, power level assumes you take as much or as little wargear as you want, but points wise you have to spend the points you have reserved.

>> No.56814398

The only one of these i intended for is the latter. Artillery should be useful for blowing away lots of cheap units. As of right now you kill at the max D6 units with most artillery pieces. Manticores are a special case though and probably like most of the artillery pieces would need a price bump to now contend with its new strength.

>> No.56814401

20 Infantrymen or 10 Grenadiers ?

>> No.56814408

Mortars are better. On average I only get five or six kills against hordes with the wyvern, and with the price increase they got they just aren't worth it unless you are going for a small a unit count as possible.

>> No.56814413

>Most armies could really do with some more anti-horde stuff.
since the commissar changes I haven't seen as much problem with hoards anymore.
Guards with a lord commissar+valhallans do a bit of this, but that's putting a lot into it now.

Poxwalkers just don't do enough and are too slow, orks... if the codexs helps their internal balance enough then maybe mob rule will need to be toned down.

I haven't faced either of the local nids players since the codex, so maybe there is a problem.

Fully mech guard might have a problem with hoards, but infantry just provide enough value of fire that I don't see the problem.

Having said all this, I do feel that the 'if shooting at unit of x or more models' thing should have been used a lot more. It's already in the rules, and would address most of this.

>> No.56814429

Depends on purpose, 20 infantry for defending and gun line
10 Grenadiers for aggresive behavior

>> No.56814438


i think my infantrymen to grenadier ration ought to be 3:1

>> No.56814440

Anon Flamers are pretty awful, in the normal shooting phase you are on average only killing 1.5 guardsmen or .5 marines the same can be said for overwatch. So unless you have multiple flamers per unit you really aren't doing that much anti-charge deterrents with the damn things.

>> No.56814445

Not really; it'd run the risk of him downgrading to a Spawn or just remaining a Daemon Prince.

>> No.56814449

>I haven't faced either of the local nids players since the codex, so maybe there is a problem.
Gaunts suck and GS are too expensive to be "horde".

>> No.56814451

get a press drill with a tiny bit and stick it into the center of the barrel and drill :D

>> No.56814452

The fuck did they do to them?

>> No.56814457

Main problem with mech guard is that the moment the enemy horde reaches you, you can't do shit. It is impossible to prevent the entire army from just charging you and consolidating into you.
Super elite armies also have this problem, if the can't get easy access to fly.
Honestly, vehicles should get a special rule that is similar to fly. If the can physically move past the enemy models, that can just hit reverse and shoot the next turn. That way I don't get fucked over when fucking tau charge my tanks, and pure assault armies can still lock them up by completely surrounding the tank.

>> No.56814474

Increased their price to 9 points from 7 points. Still good snipers, but you don't just spam them to cover the entire area between deployment zones.

>> No.56814478

Would be a nice general Stratagem

>> No.56814488

>the game has a problem with how strong assault is

>> No.56814492

okay, so on this.
Artillary isn't all the same thing. Artillary that's heavy explosion isn't that great against spread out units, it's just not terrible against them.

So battle cannons and basilisks are pretty good at pounding down building and blowing up vehicles, and also deals decent damage to infantry heavy or light.

Now things that are specifically meant to send masses small shrapnel over an area or similar, that could stand to be better against infantry than it currently is under the rules.

Let wyverns reroll to hit against infantry, or squads of 10+, give the nova cannon an extra d6 attacks against those units, etc.

But spilling over damage is probably the worst solution. Multiple damage weapons are already good against heavy targets, if you make them also good against light targets, now you've made something good against everything.
I thought you wanted to avoid that.

>> No.56814521

Why don't the Necrons just hook up a bunch of blanks to a C'tan shard and power up the no-warp aura to keep Ruinstorm #2 away? They're having trouble finding enough pylon materials.

>> No.56814526

Sounds like you didn't screen your tanks and got within easy charge distance.

Like i dunno man if you have a problem with tau charging you tha sounds like your problem.

Honestly don't you have a shit ton of stuff to prevent that?

>> No.56814530

The game doesn't have a problem with assault. Assault armies have a problem with not having codexes. Tyranids are pretty fucking good, and Bangles are also looking great.

>> No.56814542

>I went gun line pure and they're punishing me for that!


>> No.56814545

How do SM screen anything, they have like 15 infantry usually.

>> No.56814546

guard could use this.
But then against, they do really well with infantry screens.
A tank order would work too.

Don't know how many other armies have this problem. Orks have infantry screens and like assault, tau/eldar/necrons have fly.

Space marines spamming predators?

>tau charge my tanks.
with what?

>> No.56814551

The problem was specifically with mechanized guard. My normal guard list has three guard squads to guard every pair of leman russes, in addition to the guard squads that I use to push up the field.

>> No.56814560

What went right?

>> No.56814566

Blanks are rare, and while the Imperium has the infrastructure to comb its population for them, necrons can only search those they capture.

>> No.56814570

As a Blood Angels player i sit here and i go through the numbers and the problem is as an elite assault heavy army i get destroyed by even the lightest bunches of chaff. Because i just dont have enough guns to destroy the chaff so i can get at the good units and if i go for enough guns i am left with so little assault there is no point in bringing them and i should just go full shooting.

>> No.56814572

>not charging your little blue men to hug onto the tank barrels and be a nuisance

>> No.56814575

ok, SM should have that as 1-2cp strat.
So it's a thing that opponents can work to take advantage of, but can't completely cripple an army.

pure mech SM is the norm?

>> No.56814586

So in warzone Fenris, the changling lets Luther out of his cell. Do we know whats happened since then? Its been 200 years, doubt her has just done nothing but beg for The Lions forgiveness in all that time.

>> No.56814591

It was already out in 2014 but theres still no epub right?

>> No.56814595

They need fixing?

>> No.56814602

you have jet packs so you can fly over the chaff.

if the chaff is completely surrounding the good stuff, then that good stuff can't get free.

>> No.56814617

Wasn't armoured divisions needing infantry escort one of the main lessons of WW2, with disasterous consequences when forgotten about? The game saying "get some men to screen the tanks so you don't get Grozny'd all day" is a feature not a bug, hell even in previous editions the FW armoured battlegroup list needed some mech. infantry to be able to cap objectives iirc.

>> No.56814624

Jesus why do the Fallen look so much cooler than Dark Angels.

>> No.56814627

This. Assault blows this edition. There needs to be more reward for winning assault or for wiping a squad like a bigger consolidate move. More penalties for leaving combat too. Like -1 to hit against the enemy unit when you flee from combat. To represent the allies not wanting you shoot their teammates.

>> No.56814646

What rules of thumb would you suggest for deepstriking against well-screened armies?

>> No.56814648

Good stuff doesn't need to get free when it's shooting.

>> No.56814657

Reading the index for GSC.

Where can I find Aberrant Models? Are they good?

>> No.56814658

Yeah, in my eyes all-vehicle lists are basically skew lists, and skew lists are trash.

Take some footsloggers to secure your flanks.

>> No.56814663

Space Marines/Chaos Space with Land Raiders suffer from being locked in assault pretty badly, in fact they're the list that needs it the most since they lack the screening units guard have.

>> No.56814674

it can't shoot at your assaulter, they're in combat.

If the chaff has room to fall back away from your assault units, there was room to move past them.

>> No.56814682

They can fall out of combat in any direction which is the problem.

>> No.56814683

Land Raiders are transports.
Use the thing you are transporting.

>> No.56814690

So who makes a better air-borne commando army, the Elysians or the Scions ?

>> No.56814710

What happens when it is surrounded?

>> No.56814715

the deathwatch: overkill box, or on ebay.

They're pretty good, but expensive

>> No.56814722

You’re screwed, honestly. If your enemy brings Scouts or goes first and gets max distance between his screen and heavy stuff (one time I played a guy with 80 guardsmen that sprinted up, and his guns pulled back, giving him like 14” between the two), then you’re just flat-out screwed.

The only hope you have is to put everyone in CQC (then they fall back and shoot you off the table....) and have enough shooty power to cripple or kill his heavy ranged hitters. Which for GK is pretty much impossible, so enjoy spending 2 turns killing 1/4 of his army while he spends one turn killing half of yours

>> No.56814726

can't move through enemy models, and can't have any models be within 1" of any of your units, and must maintain coherency.

Do you want me to draw you a picture?

>> No.56814727

In more sense of the clones from start wars the elysians since everything special they have can deepstrike

>> No.56814729

This is one of the only times I will say the GW models look better than the FW equivalent.

>> No.56814737

>pure mech SM is the norm?
What even is mech SM, guilliman and 6 assbacks with 6 lascannon tacs. Any more casual build doesn't bring more than a battalion of troops.

>> No.56814742

If you wanna be clones, go scions.

>> No.56814744

No you're stupid and that's apparent. We are done here.

>> No.56814746

The thing they are transporting has gone after the biggest threat on the table beacuse you don't buy a fucking landraider for a cheap screening unit. Using stormravens instead is the more common answer.

>> No.56814751

You let yourself get close enough to an enemy unit that they could completely surround a large tank, without dropping off your cargo?

Your solution is to not fuck up like that in the first place.

>> No.56814774

Well anon thats kinda hard to do. If we dont want to get all alpha strikey in this conversation we can assume that i am landing my units behind line of sight blocking terrain so that they wont get blown away before they can move next turn. Well then the enemy advances and i lose my shit to a bunch of guns. If i try to charge from 9" theres usually enough room there that i would have to fly into the chaff anyways and then would get blown away next turn.

>> No.56814779

In WW2 tanks were scared of bazookas on tracks and rear armor, not getting shut down because a fire warrior was punching it with his bare hands.

>> No.56814783

Some units like genestealers can move incredibly far like almost 30 inches and still charge. Or da jump boys. You might not always be ready for something like that.

>> No.56814794

so you've already deposited your cargo, gotten your elites into their biggest threat, and oh no,you lose one turn of shooting with your land raider?

>> No.56814813

No it didn't. It ran away from a watcher in the dark like a bitch before it could get there

>> No.56814819

What are handheld shaped charges for 800.

>> No.56814835

They are melta bombs a specific upgrade SM have that don't prevent shooting.

>> No.56814853

iirc, BA have strats and psykic powers that make units move faster.
You need to use them.

The other thing is to bring chaff killers, then not deploy your deep strike turn 1.
just leave them in the air and get 2 turns to clear a hole.
Also of course, focusing your fire to burst a hole and not spreading out.

>> No.56814854

SM don't have them anymore.

Tau come with EMP

>> No.56814859

MSU with 2 meltas and a heavy flamer plus watchmaster in a centaur. Get 2-3 of them. Right in your opponents face early and cannot be ignored without serious consequence.

That being said, engineers are a straight up improvement. Only downside is they cannot do the scout move in the centaur. Other than that they are better in every way plus being cheaper.

>> No.56814867

tyranid maleceptor or toxicrene

>> No.56814879


Maleceptors look cool.

>> No.56814886

genestealers have to come from the front, can't move through units, and are the one a unit that supposed to be able to pull stuff like that with planning and luck.

Da jump still lands them 9" away from everything. Accounting for deep strike and such with deployment is part of the game.

>> No.56814887

Land Raiders have about 150pts worth of guns alone. Yes losing a turn of shooting with it is a big fucking deal.

>> No.56814893

T'au do not have such things. They have photon grenades. Which are pretty fucking useless.

>> No.56814902

The Tau and the Eldar have always had EMP charges.

>> No.56814905

It's an abstraction.

>> No.56814907


>> No.56814917

How to heck to you screen/zone as Deathwatch? our troops are too expensive to just stand in front and we dont have access to scouts

>> No.56814928

Shoot them before they become a problem. Deathwatch 101.

>> No.56814939

realize they are either a supplimental force or a specialized counter force.

So have them as a second detachment to an imperial force they can support, or use them in games where you've talked to your opponent to have a good match.

>> No.56814942

What would you screen as deathwatch, more deathwatch, a flier?

>> No.56814944

what are you gonna ask him /tg/?

>> No.56814945

Serious answer? A guard detachment. You're faction is too small and was probably never actually intended to be fielded solo.

>> No.56814953

Toxicrene is better for melee and have nice shoot

>> No.56814955

Ideally you alpha strike hard and pray.

You could also take an allied detachment of Inquisition and use acolytes to screen.

>> No.56814975

Its been a common knowledge thing since launch that cheap guardsmen/whatever and especially a Rhino ramming their useless bodies into a giant expensive vehicle like a LR Achilles or Leviathan Dread over and over is dumb as hell and makes those units shitty. Overwatch on 6+ should only apply to units with something like an <assault> keyword that could have existed on the most units.

>> No.56814984

>going on reddit

>> No.56815009

>“Valdor remained unmoved. ‘Even now, I would see him taken to Terra, if it could be done. I would wish to know why.’ Russ laughed, a coarse bark that sent more spittle flying into Valdor’s faceplate. ‘You’re still clinging to that? Ha!’ He turned away, swinging his greatblade casually. ‘I’ve known since I first saw this world that we would face one another. I did not come here for prisoners, Constantin. If my Father had truly wished for such, He would not have sent me.’ ‘You were not sent alone, Lord Russ.’ Russ glanced back at Valdor, a sly smile on his fanged face. ‘Oh, that’s it, is it?’ He laughed again, but it was an ice-cold sound. ‘You have the power of Magisterium, and wish to cling to it.’ Russ paced back to him again. He was always moving, restless, like a tempest bound up inside the sham-form of a man. ‘Don’t try to invoke the Lex with me. You claim to speak for my Father, but you’re not His blood, are you? Not like we are. That’s what really gets you, isn’t it? You’re His instruments. He’d toss you aside in an “instant if He cared to. We, though. We. We’re family.’ Russ gave out a great belly-laugh then, amused by the idea. ‘You’ll never understand that.’ Valdor didn’t reply for an instant, seemingly genuinely nonplussed. ‘There are so many errors there,’ he said eventually, ‘I do not even know where to start.”

lmao furry btfo

>> No.56815019

Its not an abstraction at all, the game has mechanics to handle tank hunting infantry with melta guns and thunder hammers and shit. They all shouldn't get the ability to stun lock vehicles for free by default and its actually one of the main uses of cheap infantry now.

>> No.56815032

Is there any good source for 40k audio drama's?

>> No.56815039

What's best for the Goliath Rockgrinder in terms of loadout?

Im thinking flamer.

>> No.56815047

It didn't, a watcher it saw a watcher in the dark and got freaked the fuck out and ran away like a little bitch.

>> No.56815057

I've been looking all over the net, but unfortunately couldn't find it.

>> No.56815061

in what bizarre world are you playing?
You need to get that infantry into the backline to get to the tanks, and then survive the countershooting if you want to deny more than one turn of shooting for the vehicle.

Unless you have fucked up, how is a cheap infantry unit able to do this to enough of your points to be more than a speedbump?

>> No.56815067

>they're like the Luigi of warhammer
A version of the painfully generic main character with an actual personality that takes the vanilla tropes established by said protagonist and does some fun stuff with it?

>> No.56815073

Probably. I'm pretty apprehensive about the heavy weapons penalty for the laser/sonic dealio

>> No.56815076

>"my abstraction is better than their abstraction!"

>> No.56815077

black library

>> No.56815078

> Grabbed Dark Crusade on sale
> Never played a DoW game or Strategy game before
> Decide I should do some learnin before I jump in
> This tutorial might just be the most boring thing I've ever seen

How fucked am I if I just skip it?

>> No.56815093

Flamer, since their other heavies have -1 to hit on the move and you want it moving.

>> No.56815095

You're confusing swarms, which are multi-wound models representing tons of little dudes, with hordes, which are actually a ton of little single-wound dues and actually the worst possible target for lascannons.

>> No.56815113

What tutorial?

>> No.56815122

They were originally a supplement to my DA but I wanted to try running them solo
Transports carrying the big guns mostly
That also seems like a good idea, thanks man

>> No.56815137

Always 20 infantry. Double wounds and the same number of special weapons unless you are also throwing a heavy flamer into the grenadiers which altogether would make them far to costly in points. More attacks in melee. Same morale. Two squads require being shot at by most enemy units and can sit on multiple objectives and can both receive separate orders.

And this is coming from someone who thinks grenadiers are the coolest looking model in the game. They just aren't worth it unless you're putting 5 in a centaur and suicide charging them with double melta, and even then it's questionable. Krieg engineers are better than grenadiers in every way.

>> No.56815141

>orks... if the codexs helps their internal balance enough then maybe mob rule will need to be toned down.
>mob rule
>toned down
>For a faction that has 6+ saves as the norm
Oh zog off mate. Mob rule is fine as it is.

>> No.56815144

For strats you have Descent of Angels. Which still requires you to be within 12" of your target to charge it. You also have forlorn fury but i would argue that it doesn't affect your units that are in orbit so it would useless for deepstriking jump packs anyways. There are no psychic powers that allow your other units to move only the psyker.
The thing about bringing chaff killers is that if you bring a decent amount of options to killl chaff you end up with very little assault unit and of course i know thats the trade off but at that point you might as well just go all shooty and no assault as your assault wont be doing enough anyways.

>> No.56815146

What models actually have the swarm keyword, and what does it do?

>> No.56815151

>They were originally a supplement to my DA but I wanted to try running them solo
If you want something fluffy then take an Inquisition detachment and screen with cheap acolytes.

>> No.56815152

It happens all the time after turn 3 or 4 against guard orks and nids.

>> No.56815158

They should be Strength 3 and always strike last as well.

>> No.56815164

I don't know if any currently have the swarm keyword anymore.
In previous editions they were Scarab swarms, Nurglings and Ripper swarms.

>> No.56815169

There's a few of the audio dramas floating around inside the Megas, you just have to find them. I recommend the Sanctus Reach one called "Klaw of Mork", but that's my personal preference.

>> No.56815171

Yeah the hipster group

>> No.56815176

You click start campaign and it says do you wanna do the tutorial
You play the Tau

>> No.56815186

They still have it and also aren't effected by infantry triggers. But that's about it.

>> No.56815190

Told you the Primaris would have SOMETHING happening to them. They're getting the quirks, times 10. It's going to be great.

>> No.56815193

hence the 'if... then maybe'.
right now it's fine because there isn't really enough else that not being able to clear the swarms easily is fine.

if the rest of the army gets enough of a buff, then MAYBE the amount of protection from moral that mob rule give might be a problem.

At the moment you are correct, it's fine.

>> No.56815200

Swarms have the ability to hold Knights and titans in place

>> No.56815211

I know you're memein' me, son, but this still triggers me.

>> No.56815222

Ork codex should give them a Purge Soul clone. One-shotting Knights les go

>> No.56815225

>after turn 3 or 4.
so you've gotten 3-4 turns of shooting with your tank, and left that unit alone to get into your back line, and don't have anything to clean it up.

Well it sounds like you got outplayed, and are complaining about it.

>> No.56815227

Put everything in cover or transports. I like having an alpha strike team in a flyer, a CC team in a Land Raider and fill out rest with dreads, bikes and sniper kill teams with just stalker bolters.

>> No.56815235

I can see them having a variance of the flaw. Like for example their red fury is much more focused and they are in control of it most of the time, but when they finally snap oh boy let's get the fucking out of there!

>> No.56815243

>They should be Strength 3 and always strike last as well.
>Anything striking last automatically in this edition
Digga iz you high?

>> No.56815250

are nostril flares that common?

>> No.56815253

fuck off

>> No.56815258

Anny nids Player help?

>> No.56815270

I would say so, I don't even think I can raise my upper lip without my nostrils flaring.

>> No.56815274

You know there was an entire Company that was built upon that premise right there. It was the Second company Lead by Captain Donatos Aphael. They were called The Blooded and were known for being able to actually have some sort of control over the Red Thirst instead of just letting it take them.

>> No.56815297

Power of the machine spirit and causes 1d3 wounds more for every 10 models in the objective unit

>> No.56815321

>You’re His instruments. He’d toss you aside in an “instant if He cared to. We, though. We. We’re family.’

No VI, you are the tool

>> No.56815328

Stop being fucking dumb you sound like you've never played before if you think people getting their vehicle charged by gaunts and rhinos doesn't happen every fucking day. Like they wont possibly get there ever because I don't have better shit to deal with on turn one.

>> No.56815349

The tutorial is literally a skirmish in easy mode if I remember well. Just don't play on easy

>> No.56815353

Do acolytes not have a model? I can seem to find much on the site, are they meant to be kitbashed/converted?

>> No.56815374

>if the rest of the army gets enough of a buff, then MAYBE the amount of protection from moral that mob rule give might be a problem.
Anon, before 8th Orks had this thing called 'eavy Armour, which gave an Ork a 4+ instead of 6+. You could equip an entire 30 boy mob with that. Expensive as hell, but it was worth it back in the day (at least back in 3-6e. I'm still a little foggy on what happened in 7th). Orks lost that and got the Mob Rule in exchange to compensate for the fact Ork leadership is absolute shit.

They'd need to do something like bringing back 'eavy Armor for standard Ork boy again AND increasing Orks basic leadership to justify nerfing the Mob Rule for morale purposes. At least that's my take on it.

>> No.56815409

it doesn't, because I don't suck at this game.

Don't leave yourself exposed, and kill things that get into your line. You're fucking up, and want the rules to change to help you.

>> No.56815438

sorry to hear about that.
Is it more common in certain ethnicities?

>> No.56815501

The mega exists for a reason

>> No.56815637

>using a picture with obvious mistake

>> No.56815675

I didnt use any tutorial, its like just build buildings that make better units, make better units, kill enemy.
Character attaches to unit via little arrow on the bottm with + and detaches by same arrow but it changes image.
Thats all you need to know.

>> No.56815824

Thoughts on GSC? They’re by no means anywhere near top tier, but their models are Chad AF. Patriarch is probably my favourite model around.

>> No.56818329

what is this??

>> No.56818366

I think WYSIWYG chokes the hobby side of the game. I will never bring a WYSIWYG army unless by sheer chance.

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