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/tg/ - Traditional Games


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>> No.56275521

First for sane imperial man, nothing wrong with worshipping bugs.

>> No.56275524

1st for sisters

>> No.56275525

How the fuck does anyone get Chosen models now?

>> No.56275535

What do people think of the new Tyranids?

I like that there doesn't seem to be any auto-include, most options seem viable.

On the other hand, nothing seems competitively strong and so it's unlikely they'll see much tournament play.

>> No.56275539

>>56275524
Cucked again

>> No.56275540

>>56275524
These levels of smug should be illegal.

>> No.56275542

>>56275535
Genestealers are auto include.

>> No.56275545

Your dudes > my dudes

>> No.56275550

Anons i want to do tyranids
Is nidzilla good?
What about termagants and tervigons? I like termigants

>> No.56275559

>>56275524
Sisters late as usual

>> No.56275567

>>56275545
My Girls > Your CIS dudes

>> No.56275570

>>56275524
April 1st for sisters

>> No.56275575

>>56275524
More like slowsters.

>> No.56275580

>>56275559
Can you really expect sisters to come first?

>> No.56275581

>>56275559
Women hate it when they come second. .... So I've heard :(

>> No.56275587

>>56275518
Necrons are starting to construct additional pylons, and so wants Cawl, so I guess they might become relevant again, at least a little bit. Although, I dread Cawl will just asspull one someday and the Crypteks technomancy will just end up being a joke.

>> No.56275591

>>56275559
getting some Madotsuki or Wendy Cooldown vibes from this one

>> No.56275596

>>56275542


Oh, yes. I forgot since they were since the dawn of 8th.

I still don't like and won't use them, but they are indeed very strong.

>> No.56275598

>>56275567
My Magnus > Your Magnus

>> No.56275616

Repost: are venom cannons any good on tyranid warriors or nah?

>> No.56275630

>>56275550

Nidzilla is not as good as horde, but playable.

If you like Termagaunts and Tervigons you can go both, tons of Termagaunts with Tervigons drowning the enemy.

Go big squads on the Termas and they're almost unkillable, Tervigons replenish 10 bugs a turn.

>> No.56275634

>>56275598
My Magos>Your Magnus

>> No.56275644

>>56275634
My Magus > Your Magos

>> No.56275650

>>56275511
>The AspSorc and ScarabSorc have no higher chance to explode
They have no higher chance of Perils, but the low wound counts mean that the default result is them Orbitally Bombarding your own army.
>Average of 2 dead rubrics or 1 dead SO.
Unless you're next to friendly units, which is extremely common in 8E.
>There's always risks when it comes to using psychic powers
Sick platitude brah.
>the Familiar stratagem goes a long way to make them useful
Lol, the ability to pay 1CP to actually get a real power on your jihadi squad leaders is a joke.>>56275511
>their guns always fuck up infantry
They're as effective as Storm Bolters against MEQ's and do significantly worse against light infantry.
>Tzaangors are cheap as shit for a marine statline and AP-1 swords in an army that desperately needed bodies AND CC
Tzaangors at 7PPM are too expensive to screen. Sure, they're nice, but you're usually better off just taking Cultists/Horrors.

>> No.56275651

>>56275630
What about Nidzilla with Ripper swarms and some GSC Neophytes riding around in their Goliath?

>> No.56275663

>>56275580
Well they have to be pretty backed up with the whole all-female thing

>> No.56275674

>>56275580
You suck at foreplay if they don't.

>> No.56275677

>>56275616

Venom Cannons got a major price increase (9->20 points), but got better as well.

Before/after
D3 S8 -1 1d
D3 S8 -2 D3d

Warriors aren't amazing, but if you like them take them.

>> No.56275678

>>56275644
My Magnus > Your Magus

>> No.56275682

>>56275492
*makes you work the cotton fields*

>> No.56275703

>>56275682
THICC

>> No.56275704

>>56275682
*Makes you learn how to thin paint*

>> No.56275715

>>56275651


I have no experience on that, but if you like it you should play it.

You will have some problems on taking out tougher targets, but it's not impossible

>> No.56275724

>>56275682
> not photo shopping in some salamander scouts
So lazy anon

>> No.56275738

>>56275682
No, not the whip!

>> No.56275740

>>56275704
*hugs Duncan*

>> No.56275746

>>56275682
I'd like to go down and work her cotton fields if you know what I mean.

>> No.56275764

>>56275740
Remember, multiple short hugs are better than one long hug.

>> No.56275777

>>56275587
Oh sweet, must have missed that pretty important fluff segment. Getting what I wanted, then (so long as Cawly Sue doesn't figure out the culmination of millenia of technological development in the course of the four in-universe months before the plot advances again)

>> No.56275781

>>56275704
I feel like i should watch the How to paint a Bloodthirster video but it always makes me wish we had a How to paint all the other khorne Daemons videos.

>> No.56275793

Opinions on scarab occult terminators please?
Ok
Kinda shit
Or super shit

>> No.56275797

>>56275682
Say no more. SAY NO MORE ;) ;) ;)

>> No.56275804

So what would be a good unit to proxy a Goliath as for Renegade guard?

>> No.56275806

>>56275793
They get dusty real easily.

>> No.56275815

>>56275764
I love this picture so much.

>> No.56275816

>>56275678
>Cock Fight ensues.

>> No.56275822

>>56275804
>twin-gun, pintle-mount
plain-jane taurox

>> No.56275832

>>56275793
Ok
You should deploy them normally or deepstrike at 12inches.
They should not be in combat but should just be blasting at everything that moves with their combibolters, SRC is debatable

>> No.56275833

>>56275777
The annoying thing is that before they started pulling literally everything Primaris out of his ass Cawl was actually a really good character with some neat development (even if it was probably accidental).

"I.. have failed...."

I mean, he's not exactly Cain-tier, but he was by far the best of the Storm Seven despite not getting a hueg amount of screentime.

>> No.56275836

>>56275804
Everyone knows 100% of mining colonies are infected by Genestealers, so no one, not even renegades, have access to Goliaths aside from GSC.

>> No.56275839

>>56275822
Can't be used for renegades.

>> No.56275840

>>56275598

>> No.56275850

>>56275525
I just use the basic CSM box and give them extra bling, special weapons and such.
Alternatively I use a group of spare Aspiring Champions from other times I've used the CSM box.
One time I used a Noise Champion, a pair of Aspiring Champions, and some special weapons dudes as a squad of Chosen. The Noise Champion was the Chosen Champion.

>> No.56275856

>>56275524
More like chubsters of battle AMIRITE?

>> No.56275860

>>56275832
What about the hell FYRE missiles?

>> No.56275862

>>56275836
>100% of mining colonies are infected by Genestealers
>GSC are Unions
it makes perfect sense

>> No.56275868

>>56275860
Always
It's one of the only antitank weapons we have

>> No.56275875

>>56275840
Has anyone painted their Magnus in that original color yet?

>> No.56275876

>>56275815
Is that a Krieger, or did they just steal a Manikin from the nearest WW1 Museum exhibit?

But in all seriousness, I don't see a single aquilla on him.

>> No.56275878

Haemonculus covens.

Good?

>> No.56275881

>>56275862
It's why I'm naming either my Magus or Primus "Scargill"

>> No.56275890

This guy slaps your gf's ass.
What do you do?

>> No.56275891

>>56275868
Ok, final question, 5man squad or full 10?

>> No.56275898

>>56275650
>Extremely common in 8e
Not if you're worried of units dying. It's 6", it's not that big a distance, keep them spread out a little. Not even as much as everybody did back when blast was a thing.

I agree they suck at actually being casters, it's like GW are telling us with the mini-smite that "these guys aren't meant to cast, they're there to log around the warpflame pistol and force weapon to deter chargers". At the very least though, they are far cheaper and less useless than they were back when they costed 58 points and achieved even less.The rubric guns are always effective, outright removing anything with a 5+ off the board and neutering everything else. At best a terminator becomes a carapace vest. They chew through any and all infantry for me and I don't even field that much.

Tzaangors are 7ppm because they might actually get shit done. Dunno about you, but I'd rather pay a tiny bit extra to not have my dudes' sole reason being a distraction. Having a blob of cheap dudes that can actually brutalize something is fantastic. have an ExSorc run around with them and pop WoF and they're very tough to shift. I suspect they might give us something akin to Tide of Traitors in the code, wouldn't be surprised.

>> No.56275899

>>56275840

>> No.56275900

>>56275890
Wait for him to get back in stock

>> No.56275904

>>56275890
>slaps your gf's ass
with WHAT?

>> No.56275907

>>56275836
Why not both?

>> No.56275914

>>56275891
5 Man, despite being literal dust they still flee the battlefield apparently
2x5man also lets you cover more ground and cast a 2nd baby smite

>> No.56275921

>>56275793
Not too shabby in CC but not their role. Deepstrike with combi-bolters, SRC and missile rack. Give them Prescience and aim at expensive special infantry units = enjoy enemy tears.

>> No.56275935

>>56275616
Warriors with deathspitters and a VC are a decently shooty unit.

If you are going Warrior heavy, a Prime is worth considering.

>> No.56275939

>>56275900


How can it be you can't get a Carnifex literally anywhere in the world?

I've heard it from the US and here in Europe/Germany they're since half a year out of stock

>> No.56275941

>>56275914
Nah, sharpnel from the first dead guy's grenades puncture a hole in the other guy and the dust leaks out.

>> No.56275944

>>56275840
What is is with Chaos and Sprouting wings out of humans backs? I mean look at every known depiction of Daemon Primarchs. They all seem to have wings of some sort.

>> No.56275945

>>56275914
>>56275921
10 men lets you have more affected by any psychic buffs.
Reduces drop numbers
And if they charge, one unit fighting means they can't be interrupted.

>> No.56275962

>>56275904

He slices her in half I guess

>> No.56275976

>>56275876
He is scum that doesn't deserve an aquila, that would be too much an honour for a sinner barely above the scum he fights.

>> No.56275979

>>56275944
Makes them look sinister and gives a lot of presence while still being recognizably human in origin

>> No.56275984

>>56275939
Theres a few on ebay but theyre usually thick, and have shit weapon options.

>> No.56275989

>>56275976
Pls no bully Krieg-chan

>> No.56275995

>>56275944
Flight gives good move speed. I like my stuff without it but the rule benefits are immense

>> No.56275998

>>56275945
>>56275914
Question about the box itself. From the sprues, I noticed you get enough of everything to build a 6th Terminator, just you don't have legs. Is that correct?

Doesn't seem to difficult to get hands on a set for cheapo extra bodies. Maybe we'll get termie sorcs in the book.

>> No.56275999

>>56275890
Get some bin bags and something to scrape up whats left.

>> No.56276004

>>56275989
It's the way of the korps, son!

>> No.56276013

>>56275998
Correct you get 6 torsos 12 arms and 5 legs

>> No.56276031

>mfw when I have 6 carnifexes from when they were in a battalion box

Feels good.

>> No.56276033

>>56276013
That's awesome, conversions ahoy!

>> No.56276049

>>56276013
>conversions ahoy!
Indeed

>> No.56276056

>>56275939
>mfw I've had one unassembled for the past 3 years

>> No.56276074

>>56276004
I once heard someone pronounce the 'p' in korps. I cringed.

>> No.56276076

>>56276049
Ayy that looks pretty good. What's it counting as?

>> No.56276083

>>56276049
... what is that?

>> No.56276089

>>56276074
That's a paddlin'

>> No.56276115

>>56275939
>>56275984
I got two on ebay, can confirm

>> No.56276120

This is about everything except a Tervigon I bought after I made this list.

What's a better Hive Fleet?

>> No.56276127

>>56276076
>>56276083
Was to be my sorcerer on bike/disc at the end of 7th.

But base size is actually a big deal in 8th because of auras that I stopped working on it because I probably wont ever put it on a table

>> No.56276151

>>56276120
Kraken with a swarmlord is the best fleet

>> No.56276156

>>56276120
Begone Satan troops

>> No.56276175

>>56276056
Deathstorm box as well?

>> No.56276181

>>56276127
Give him another soul reaper cannon and you can count it as a Forgefiend desu, or another sword and you got a Maulerfiend. Paint the swords as if they're on fire and you got your counts-as magma cutters with the beast's claws being the fists.

>> No.56276206

Any tzeentch daemons players tired of playing the current army? Either get blown away, or play horrors, exalts and changeling and just yawn your way through games? I've tried adding flamers and a big bird but they are just lame ass distractions that die quick and occasionally get off a fun volley. Hopefully the new book spices it up.

>> No.56276207

someone r8 my semi competitive iron wolves list

>> No.56276239

103rd for Exorcists are best and grey knights are pointless

>> No.56276246

>>56275898
>Not if you're worried of units dying. It's 6", it's not that big a distance, keep them spread out a little. Not even as much as everybody did back when blast was a thing.
Yeah, it's not like 6" aura bonuses are a big thing in 8E.

>> No.56276250

>>56276031
Am I gay if I think that guy is cute?

>> No.56276262

>>56275682
The paintjob makes her one boob look like a tiny cleavage. I only saw her other boob after a while.

>> No.56276265

>>56276239
me too thanks

>> No.56276271

>>56276250
Yup. Might as well go suck a dick anon

>> No.56276291

Aaarrgghhh

>> No.56276294

>>56276250
He's got a boyish face, I guess. But that's still pretty borderline.

>> No.56276298

>>56276049
Hella rad

>> No.56276313

>>56276291
Just don't cast anything lol

>> No.56276315

Gah.

Shooty Graia beep boops are so annoying.

>> No.56276316

>>56276291
The price you pay for playing the faction of spikey edgelords.

>> No.56276321

>>56276316
dark eldar don't have any psykers though

>> No.56276335

>>56276291
>he's using psykers

>> No.56276339

>>56276316
You mean the price of playing mummy Egyptians

>> No.56276356

>>56275704
kek

>> No.56276366

>>56276315

Wait, I just realized that Graia's warlord trait only works on assault or rapid fire.

Those close combat firing beep boops were cheating!

>> No.56276367

>>56276321
No you are confused.

Dark Eldar are the Edgy Spikelords

>> No.56276387

>>56276291
STEADY STEADY

>> No.56276397

>>56276291
>ask which unit has that ability
>cast Whenever I'm out of range

>> No.56276425

>>56276339
Magnus alone deserves that and more.

>> No.56276480

>>56276074
wait is it death kore in pronunciation? That sounds way better.

>> No.56276486

>>56276425
you really think mango is going to be affected by this? the only useful thing to block is his long ass charge warptime, but you just cast that from further than 24". What else is even relevant, his smite? He still makes that 50% of the time on 1 die

>> No.56276487

>>56276367

The most spikey and edgy. So spikey so edgy.

>> No.56276506

If I take Deathwing Terminators, do I use the points values for their weapons from the Index, or from the Codex Space Marines?

Ie. are my power fists 12 or 20 points each?

>> No.56276511

>>56275492
Hey so I just came back from a long hiatus since the start of 7E, I gave up on my black templars because I was running double land raiders with fifteen crusaders in each and haywire would eat me alive.
How should I run black templars in 8E? Does the vehicle wounds thing help me out there?

>> No.56276514

Pls frget

>> No.56276525

>>56276480
it's the same as army corps, the 'p' is silent

>> No.56276529

>>56276511
Vehicle wounds means that Land Raiders are a lot more tanky nowadays

>> No.56276537

>>56276397
[Laughs in flying]

>> No.56276549

>>56276048
>The Rubric Bolter was for "internal consistency" with other Chaos Marine units where the Champ gets a Bolter
The Aspiring Sorcerer already functions differently from every other MEQ squad leader.
> The Khopesh is mostly so they don't fold to Riptides or Dreads, though they will still be in trouble if that happens.
Even with your change they're still going to spend the rest of the game fishing for those rends.
>Lord of the Silver Tower, you may be right. It is still a small blast that does full-scatter and requires being completely static in an army that wants to move.
A re-usable S7 AP2 Armourbane Barrage Blast would make the Exalted Sorcerer one of the best shooting HQ's in the game.

>>56276139
Sure, but Land Speeders are both pretty crappy and outright immune to S3 shooting. A Herald is pretty weak in assault unless you spend a bunch of point buying him some weapons, and even then he's nothing to write home about.
>How is the Oracle change a buff exactly?
One target for Grimoie, Invisibility, Endurance, etc. Between Tzeentch, Divination, Malefic, and Kairos's bonus powers, they've got more than enough to worry about doubling up. Being on the ground isn't much a penalty; you mostly want to be there anyways to melee shit.

>>56276206
Yeah, I'm looking forward to the codex making pure Tzeentch Daemons less crappy. I'm curious to see if they'll give us sub-faction bonuses or not.

>>56275793
On the mediocre side of okay- they'll be fine once they get a price reduction in CA. Fairly one-dimensional. Always take the Missiles, SRC is optional, never take the sword on the Sorcerer.

>> No.56276551

Not really any pretty way to pose this fucker, is there?

>> No.56276563

>>56276525
fucking french words. Thanks anon.

>> No.56276564

>>56276551
Not with that attitude

>> No.56276566

>>56276486
>What is Weaver of Fates?
Also.

>Getting 24" from a Nid player if he doesn't want you to
Yeah good luck with that.

>> No.56276568

>>56276425
That all does very little to really curb Magnus and it's asinine to fuck over entire factions (have fun GK) because of one OP model.

>> No.56276569

>>56276506
Not this shit again

>> No.56276587

>>56276529
So I should double down on tanks to support infantry charges?
> mfw I modelled my special weapons guys to have power axes so they couldn't be killed before striking just to have initiative deleted

>> No.56276590

>>56276564

Should I give him a tail biomorph, or is there no bloody point?

>> No.56276592

>>56276569
What?
I'm trying to help a friend start 40k again with his Deathwing, but I don't really get how space marines work across the index and codex

>> No.56276593

>>56276551
>spine banks

For what purpose

>> No.56276597

>>56276551
I would pose them with the body looking up, head roaring up or to the side and all guns looking to the sides, add a dead gaunt in the base to add some drama.

>> No.56276604

>>56276592
Dark Angels are an index army.

That's all you should need to know.

>> No.56276609

>>56276590
You can model one without paying any points for it Just remember to use magnets.

>> No.56276617

>>56276563
I'm disappointed in you for not knowing how to pronounce it before since I learned that shit in like second grade, but I'm happy you learned online in an anonymous environment instead of actually pronouncing it wrong in front of people.

>> No.56276621

>>56276597

It's a really ancient kit. The legs and waist are monopose without extensive greenstuff work.

>>56276593

Maximum dakka.

>> No.56276625

>>56276031
https://youtu.be/GceNsojnMf0

>> No.56276631

>>56276604
You wish. Because DA use some Index datasheets from the Codex part of the Index, and those have points values, a DA player right now needs the Codex Space Marines Codex in order to know the correct costs of things.

>> No.56276635

>>56276551
>shooting carnifex
is that really what the current nid codex has come to? carnifex should be melee monsters only. i dont even play tyranids, but if carnifex had to have some crazy buffs and rules to make them viable to be melee only, it should happen

>> No.56276642

>>56276506
>do I use the points values for their weapons from the Index, or from the Codex Space Marines?

Holy shit this b8 again?! People cant be this fucking retarded, right? If this isnt b8 then the answer is easy just ask yourself this:

Are "Deathwing" or "Dark Angels" using the Space Marine codex or part of it in any way? The answer is no, so you dont fucking use points of a codex that your army isnt part of.

>> No.56276646

>>56276549
>subfaction bonuses
I want to see something like the malefic lord perils powerup to represent literally being made of magic and a full complement of useful psychic powers so that I can have some offense. In reality we're gonna see some gay ass summoning powers bullshit (since they left daemonic ritual as a summoned unit rule not a summoning unit rule they can remake it however they want) and some random buffs.

>> No.56276653

>>56276635

To be fair, I'm building 7 carnifexes and only two of them are going to be full gun-arm.

I agree that it's weird to see that hulking body with only gun arms though.

>> No.56276664

>>56275550
>What about termagants and tervigons? I like termigants

Honestly if you like termagants, skip the tervigons and use those points to take 62 gaunts.

>> No.56276676

>>56276642
But they do use parts of the space marine codex, don't they?

They use the same weapons points sheet that the rest of the index does, including the vanilla marines. Plus they can take shit like Dreadnaughts, unless they use the Index version of those too?

This isn't bait. It's a legitimate question.

>>56276631
Wait, so do you use the codex or index? It seems pretty silly that the Dark Angels stuff would be arbitrarily more expensive, but I'd rather get the rules right.

>> No.56276694

>>56276617
Pic related should hunt me down.

>> No.56276697

>>56276664
Is it bad?

>> No.56276702

>>56276676
The Index entry for Dark Angels says to use the Codex Space marines datasheets in the same Index for various things, like a Chaplain (who can take a Power Fist), but replace <chapter> with Dark Angels. That Index entry for the Chaplain *must* pay Codex prices for its wargear, per the current FAQ.

So you use the Index rules, but need the Codex Space Marines Codex for some costs.

>> No.56276720

Yeah, this definitely looks pretty weird.

>> No.56276730

>>56276635
I thinks it hype.
If it makes you feel better all 7 of my fexes are melee. I always hated putting guns on monsters, it feels like a waste to me, Devourers especially, if you need to get that close to enemies you'd be as well charging.

>> No.56276731

>>56276697
Short answer: yes

Long answer: Putting 62 gaunts on the board are alot harder to remove than a tervigon and will do more work than a tervigon.

But if you like the model, run it. If you prefer termagants, just run more of them.

>> No.56276735

>post yfw waiting for a non-Marine(Loyalist or Chaos) related release

>> No.56276739

Does anyone actually play 30k? Is it any good?

>> No.56276740

>>56276702
Cheers.
So the Chaplain would pay 12 points for fisting, but the Deathwing Terminators pay 20?

Or because the points for the Power Fist is in the vanilla Space Marines section of the Index, and that has been superseded by the codex, do both units pay 12 points?

>> No.56276746

Night Lords are pathetic cowards.

They can't ever win a fair fight.

>> No.56276747

>>56276735
Model release*

>> No.56276751

Asked in /wip/ but may as well post here too.

Does anyone know how blightkings scale compared to thew new plague marine kit? I want to kitbash weapons but I don't want them to be too comically large.

>> No.56276752

>>56276739
Did you like 7th?

If not then no. If you did, don't lie to yourself.

>> No.56276755

>>56275890

Die like a bitch

>> No.56276759

>>56276739
Go ask in /hhg/

>> No.56276760

>>56276735
But I'm not.

>> No.56276767

>>56276525
Wait what? Is that in some sort of American dialect? I've never heard anyone not pronounce the "p" in corps.

>> No.56276770

>>56275781
What'd be the point? You learn how to do it all from the Bloodthirster video. All Khorne daemons have red skin, brass armor, some variation of horns, possibly fire and a weapon. I love Khorne but the fucker's not exactly original.

>> No.56276772

>>56276739
Their general thread went from alive to life support when they stuck with 7th. Alan bligh died, he was the emperor of the HH game. I wouldn't get in now unless you have a group.

>> No.56276777

>>56276635
>>56276730
Have some Mathhammer, fellow nidfags.

>> No.56276789

As someone who's played marines in various forms since 5th edition, what xeno race should I look into starting?

>> No.56276790

>>56276767
Aussie here, we don't pronounce the 'p'
Hard core Death corps

>> No.56276796

>>56276635
>>56276730
>>56276777

>> No.56276797

>>56276770
Its mostly things like Blood Thrones and such that are a pain in the fucking ass to get down.

>> No.56276803

>>56276621
>Maximum dakka.
They're 6" range, so not really helpful on a monster that will probably sit at 18" as much as possible.

I do thibk they're worth it on a melee fex though, since they can be fired in combat.

>> No.56276807

>>56276789
play necrons
>3+ shooting
>horrible in 8th edition
>skeletons

>> No.56276810

>>56276789
Eldar are pretty fun

>> No.56276811

>>56276740
Ruling:
"If I have a Blood Angels, Dark Angels or Space Wolves army, will I need to buy Codex: Space Marines to use my army?
You don’t have to. Other Space Marines factions not covered in the new codex will continue to use all the datasheets, rules and points values in the index until their own codex is released. Rules for new models not covered in the index (like the upcoming Redemptor Dreadnought) will be available in the box with the model and matched play points for these units will be made available online."

The Chaplain Index entry pays Codex costs, because he must. It's the same as for a TSons army trying to field horrors - they have to use the Chaos SM Codex, despite that Codex not being for them. However, the Deathwing Terminators have an Index entry, and no Codex, so they pay Index costs.

In essence, and as per usual, GW's attempt to reduce the paperwork/bureaucracy in figuring out rules and costs has only increased it and made things more complicated.

>> No.56276815

>>56276735
>Playing something other than (loyalist or chaos) Space Marines in Warmarines 40k Marines
oh shit nigger what are you doing

>> No.56276816

>>56276746
This is a poor argument. They are cowards, but not for the efficient victory you posted.

>> No.56276830

>>56276767
>dialect
you sir are surrounded by morons, the correct pronunciation is silent 'p'

>> No.56276840

>>56276751
God why do they make the nurgle stuff so cartoony?

>> No.56276843

>>56276537
>moving your character within 18 inches of a pyscher

>> No.56276850

>>56276777

Could someone please explain what (P+OOE) is?

>> No.56276857

>>56276767
How do you pronounce grand prix?

>> No.56276858

>>56276811
Thanks man

Tbh we'll probably just houserule it among our group to play it sensibly and let him use Codex points, but I appreciate the clarification.

>> No.56276863

So me and my gf female were talking about how to make basic marines with basic bolters better, and I suggested bringing something like fury of the legion back, maybe make CSM have -1 AP at half range and unable to charge, and maybe loyalists can fire twice but can't overwatch or shoot the next turns
Would this be too good or a decent fix? Right now tactical/CSM squads do nothing but die and bring low damage output even for base troops

>> No.56276865

>>56276790
>>56276830
Very interesting. Thank you for confirmation. I am indeed surrounded by immigrants and morons, but such is Canada.

>> No.56276875

>>56276850
Thats a carnifex with 2 sets of scything talons and under the effect of OOE alpha leader.

Speaking of which, here is OOE. Ignore the relic, that didn't quite pan out.

>> No.56276877

>>56276850
Pair + Old one eye.

>> No.56276879

Can you re-roll the roll off +1 to go first? Can the other player re-roll after the re-roll?

>> No.56276891

>>56276803

I'm not really going for 100% optimal as all my carnies having their own look and gimmicks, in this case agressively approaching hordes and laying into them.

Does he look better or worse with the large thresher scythe from the stone crusher kit?

>> No.56276895

>>56276810
Played against Eldar yesterday, all their shit but a unit of dark reapers was at least -2 to hit if not -3, that was "fun"

>> No.56276906

>>56276891
Bone mace all day every day!

but yea, that looks a little oversized. take a top down photo.

>> No.56276914

>>56275875
This is the closest I found

>> No.56276915

>>56276863
>fury of the legion
>no space Marine legions

>> No.56276921

>>56276875
What's the c/e column?

I had the complete text of the relic talons in another thread earlier today, but I didn't copy them down, sadly. Let me see if I can find it again.

>> No.56276926

>>56276895
As an eldar player, I'm disappointed in that guy for giving us all a bad name

>> No.56276928

>>56276915
>something "like" fury of the legion
What's your native language friendo?

>> No.56276931

>>56276906

>Oversized

Yeah, I was thinking that might be a good thing if it's his only melee weapon though.

>> No.56276941

>>56275492
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/nobody-getting-harassed-in-games-workshop-20171106138625

How others see us

>> No.56276949

>>56276840
a good 80% of the cartoonyness is the paintjob

>> No.56276951

>>56276921
Its the total amount of wounds/damage they do in a round divided by their point cost.

>>56276931
Looks pretty good at that angle.

>> No.56276953

>>56276926
Take a wild guess what he played last edition? I'll give you a hint, they could shoot and move and he brought a lot of them
He also declared he wouldn't play 40k until Eldar got thier codex after getting rekt one too many times, then he returned to our LGS after months and won first place effortlessly, sometimes the WAACfags get what they want and you can't stop them

>> No.56276955

>>56276895
>>56276926
It's not even a good list. Shadow Spectres will fold in assault, and flyers can be ignored for boots on the ground wins.

>> No.56276961

>>56276702
>The Index entry for Dark Angels says to use the Codex Space marines datasheets

No it fucking doesn't, it says to use the space marine datasheets from the index.

Dark Angels get NOTHING from the codex.

>> No.56276964

>>56276735

DE getting anything new...

Which actually we got new plastic HQs last time so I won't be to surprised to not get a plastic grotesque kit. Surely, we won't get plastic beasts or court of the Archon. I shouldn't but, I still hope they bring some special HQs.

>> No.56276970

>>56276951
in a phase*

>> No.56276972

>>56276941

>> No.56276979

>>56276949
That is a big part of it but I miss the old visceral feel of the old art.

>> No.56276989

>>56275890
shit my pants because that means tyranids are real and we are all dead.

>> No.56276995

>>56276840

Because Nurgle -is- cartoony.

>> No.56276996

So, going back to some old and dead conversion ideas (fucking GW-Chapterhouse having a bad spat worse than a middle school break up after lunch room unprotected sex). The Parasite of Mortrex would be a damn fine addition to the line up of Tyranid HQ's WS5, BS3, T4, W3, I6, A4, LD10 3+ AV, Synapse creature, Shadow in the Warp, Character, Rending Claws, Implant Attack, and Fly.

I actually want to homebrew some rules for it. Number of things would translate well over to 8th already, BS3 is I think a 5+ or a 4+, not that it matters, WS5 I think is a 2+ (WS4 is old marine line which is now a 3+). Cost 160 points, Tyranid Prime with Devourer and Sything Talons costed 80 points.

>> No.56276997

>>56276676
You can't use codex prices for an index army, and yes it sucks.

Wait for Chapter approved.

>> No.56276999

>>56276875
The relic should be:

S+1 AP-3 D3, equipped model may make 1 additional attack with this profile, 6s to hit with this weapon generate an extra attack, extra attacks cannot generate extra attacks.

But that's not based on a pasted photo or anything, it's fifthhand internet rumor at this point.

>> No.56277001

>>56276811
>Other Space Marines factions not covered in the new codex will continue to use all the datasheets, rules and points values in the index until their own codex is released
>The Chaplain Index entry pays Codex costs, because he must.

You just contradicted yourself.

Fucking loyalists.

>> No.56277011

>>56275944
If you could have wings wouldn't you?

>> No.56277012

>>56276972
>averts eyes

>> No.56277021

>>56276955
It's just nothing dies, I brought 20 berserkers infiltrating turn one and they dissapeared even though I got first turn because he can set up a bubble wrap then redeployed
Like I'll admit I'm not the greatest player ever but that was a tough gimmick to handle when you hadn't experienced it yet

>> No.56277027

Why does Eldar have the worst relics? A 2 damage Shuriken Pistol, really?

>> No.56277028

>>56276955

Don't underestimate their over watch. Still, yeah this is a try hard list for sure.

Melee and flames could clean it up if you have mobility to deliver the damage.

>> No.56277037

Is the swarmlord still really good in the next codex?

>> No.56277038

>>56276997
>waiting for chapter approved
>for an army confirmed getting a book before the end of the year

>> No.56277052

>>56276999
The problem with the relic is that it replaces Massive(?) talons instead of Monstrous(?) Talons. Or the other way around either way OOE can't take it unfortunately.

>> No.56277061

>>56275944
Yeah. Fucking Sangy. I would say Corax too, but his weren't real, just bolted onto a jump-pack.

>> No.56277065

>>56276955

>Shadow Spectres
>Getting assaulted

My dude do you even know what the fuck you are talking about?

>> No.56277066

>>56277021
>>56277028
The only -2 to hit bubble wrap are Rangers and if you can't remove them, then there's something wrong with your list.

>> No.56277069

>>56277027
Novalance is pretty sweet

>> No.56277070

If you took every 30k Primarch and put them next to their legions/chapters in 40k, who would be the most disappointed?

>> No.56277074

>>56276777
>>56276796
like i said, if melee needs to be buffed to make melee carnifex's better, then they should have been. every single picture you see of a carnifex, they are ripping and tearing apart tanks and giant machines, not sitting back pew pewing. that would be like have a space marine with a thunder hammer, but having him just sit back and shoot his boltgun all day. it dosent follow the rule of cool, which is what 40k shoulde be about 1st

>> No.56277078

>>56276941
Accurate.

>> No.56277083

>>56276895
The craftworld ability lowers it by one but you'd need some crazy bullshit like constant conceals and tank advances and some rangers to pull that off.

Shoulda played around it.

>> No.56277085

>>56277070
Curze maybe?

>> No.56277090

>>56277065
Just charge outside flamer range or ram them with a vehicle first you retard.

>> No.56277091

>>56277070
>Iron hand of the iron hands who has iron hands but BL says hates iron hands.

>> No.56277098

>>56276996
Do we know if it's not being added back in the new codex?

>> No.56277100

>>56277052
According to Frontline Gaming, it replaces Monstrous Talons, which in the Index OOE has. But I have no idea about in the Codex.

>> No.56277105

Stormtalon any good? I just saw one for the first time today and I really like how it looks

>> No.56277107

>>56277037
>+1 to his invuln
>Deals mortal wounds
>Longer synapse
>Kept Hive Commander
>Same points
I dunno, you tell me.

>> No.56277108

>>56277090

Charging outside flamer range means you need a higher than average charge roll and if I left a tank up that late in the game I've played poorly.

>> No.56277110

>>56277083
Conceal also only targets a single unit at a time now too

>> No.56277127

>>56277001
Welcome to Gee Dubs. They hate consistency.

"In these instances, use the datasheet from the index, and the most recent points published for that model and its weapons (currently, also in the index)."

>> No.56277132

>>56277108
Shadow Spectres need to be at least within 18" to shoot. If that's not within your tank range by turns 1-2 you're retarded.

>> No.56277135

>>56277066
I don't think you understand how Eldar works
You set the bubble wrap, then redeploy so that the berserkers are over 12" out from a target, then you wipe them

>> No.56277137

>>56277107
And can allegedly take a relic, according to the same rumors about OOE taking the Scythes relic.

>> No.56277141

>>56277070
Probably IF because then they would realize that our primarch is an angry, autistic manlet.

>> No.56277146

>>56277027
CSM have the worst relic. The Cursed Crozius is actually unusable because it requires you to play Word Bearers

>> No.56277153

>>56277107

Did drop to d3 wounds on his attacks..though as you said mortal wounds. I'm glad to see him turn into such a beast. Nice break from flying tyrants with twin linked devourers

>> No.56277156

ETA on blood angel codex? Think necromunda will push it back to dec?

>> No.56277158

>>56277132

What is Webway, what is fire and fade, what is Soul Burst.

>> No.56277168

>>56276964
I just want plastic Incubi...

>> No.56277172

Here's a 1000 pts Ork list for an upcoming tournament I'm going into. I've never been in one before and am wondering if this list has everything it needs to deal with different types of situations.

What to you seems to be the strong points in this list? The weak points? What would you do to fix those weak points?

inb4 play a different army

>> No.56277174

>>56277156
necromunda preorder is Nov. 11th

>> No.56277178

>>56277168

>> No.56277201

>>56277153
Compensation for all the jobbing he gets assigned in the fluff I reckon.

>> No.56277204

>>56277153
Do you have to use the weapon tail though? Could probably just use all 6 on the 3 damage swords

>> No.56277208

How does this look as a start to an Ork army?
HQ
Warboss(84)
-Klaw
-Squig
-Kustom Shoota
Weirdboy(62) x 2

Troops
Boyz(205) x 3
-Boss Nob
--Klaw
-29 Boyz

Elites
Nob w/ Banner(79)

Heavy Support
Deff Dread (140) x 2
-Big Shoota
-Klaw
-Pair of Klaws
Killa Kans(63) x 3
-Rokkit Launcha

>> No.56277213

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRYoY_MkXKY

Eldar vs Tyranids.

Nids are WAACfag as shit in this video.

Half Kraken, Half Kronos.

>> No.56277216

>>56277158
>the squishy and fast unit keeps FUCKING escaping
>just let me shoot you!

>> No.56277225

>>56277213
Glorious. Fuck the Eldar.

>> No.56277231

>>56277225
This is how I feel. I lose to Eldar like 60% of the time.

>> No.56277237

Why the fuck can Blood angels not take the other terminator or dreadnought variants?

Or the other flyers for that matter

>> No.56277241

>>56277213

Reese plays such a slaw ass list in this game.

>> No.56277242

>>56277213

>> No.56277245 [DELETED] 

Alright thanks, tell me whether or not I'm a fucking idiot for wanting to run nidzilla and genestealer cult together. Probably would do Gorgon hive fleet

>> No.56277247

>>56277127
That's the rules for using index units in a codex army. If it's an index army, you only use what's in the index.

>> No.56277250

>>56277070
Alpha legion because they all thought they were alpharius

>> No.56277256

>>56277178

Yes please

>> No.56277266

>>56277061
Dont you dare talk about Daddy Sangy, He died for your sins you know.
>>56277011
I dont need to wish i have jump packs with wings on them.

>> No.56277270

>>56277213
>not separating your units into detachments with attributes/tactics that benefit them most
>losing to people that do
>using godawful stannis memes

>> No.56277271

>>56277231
>60%
Okay, so how's this terrible? That's almost 50/50, nearly an ideal ratio.

>> No.56277272

>>56275939
Because they're not a Space Marine so GW doesn't care about actually making and selling them.

>> No.56277275

>>56277135
Don't deploy your melee units against screens then you retard.

>> No.56277283

>>56277271
It's like he's admitting he's bad and it's just up to chance if he loses.

>> No.56277287

>>56277208
Make sure your boyz are all armed with shootas and your weirdboy has da jump. Get rid of one weirdboy and replace it with a Big Mek with a kustom force field.

Where did you find a Nob w/ Banner? I can never find one anywhere.

Deff Dreads are shit. Have yet to try out Killa Kans. Probably better off with big guns or Mek Gunz.

Warbosses are beasts in combat but you might want to switch him out for a different type of warlord.

>> No.56277291

>>56277158
Webway is 1 unit, 2 if they spend a whopping 3CP. Fire and Fade is one unit. You can't soulburst and have Alaitoc -1 to hit at the same time dumb ass.

>> No.56277294

>>56277271
They're just no fun to play against.

>> No.56277306

>>56277275
Anon are you just trying to pick a fight or do you legitimately not understand the basics of 40k?

>> No.56277313

>>56277294
Why not? They're great to play against.

>Toughness 3 and Strength 3

They're the easiest things to play against.

>> No.56277314

>>56276810
The army is almost as obnoxious as the player base.

>> No.56277320

>>56277294
Yeah this, I'd rather get rekt by a fun army than win against an unfun army, especially if the game is a drug out slog

>> No.56277321

>>56277291

Webway means they start in shooting range - fire and fade means they're not in charge range after that. Its 2 CP, not a huge investment. The fact that it only works on 1 unit is meaningless because it only needs to work on 1 unit.

Additionally they don't need to be Alatioc because they have a hard -1, they're better off in a Ynnari detachment to get shoot twice then fire and fade. If your opponent is letting you charge his Shadow Spectres he's fucking awful.

>>56277275

You don't get a choice - the rangers deploy and block deeper infiltrates then get redeployed afterwards.

>> No.56277324

>>56277294
You say that but in 6 months you'll be playing Eldar. Speaking as an Eldar player who doesn't use Shadow Spectres or spam anything really.

>>56277306
Do you even play? No one who does will drop anything against a screen.

>> No.56277325

>>56277291
It's like he plays against someone who cheats or he's just overreacting.

>> No.56277332

>>56277153
That's only the tail

>> No.56277333

>>56277098
No model, no rules, it's dead worse than shrikes which at least have the option of using index rules still.

>> No.56277338

>>56277294
>I just want to play against something easy

>> No.56277346

>>56277333
To further qualify this, it has been dead since 5th edition, so I have little hope that it is in the codex and no review has shown the parasite anywhere in the codex.

>> No.56277347

beep boop anyone got the last hunt epub?

>> No.56277349

>>56276735
Fortunately GW likes releasing things for Tau

>> No.56277354

>>56277321
If one unit of Shadow Spectres is wrecking your shit then you truly are a retard.

OP was complaining about an entire army that was -2 to hit except Dark Reapers. That's Alaitoc w/ Shadow Spectres or Warp Spiders, you retard.

Then don't deploy them where the rangers are/where they can scout move you retard.

>> No.56277361

Alright tg, rip my fucking idea apart. I want to make a Genestealer cult and Nidzilla army, lovecraft cultists and their outer gods kind of deal. Would this be even remotely viable?

>> No.56277382

>>56277361
>genestealer cult
yes

>> No.56277385

>>56277361
That's basically Genestealer cults in a nutshell dude.

>> No.56277388

>>56277354

Do you know how the rangers re-deploy? I'm assuming you do not.

Also - I wasn't involved in anything other than combating your 'just charge the shadow spectres' advice because it was bad. The way to deal with them is just hit them with mortal wounds or circumvent their defense which is their -1 to hit with weapons that hit automatically.

I could give two shits if someone is playing a tryhard list that tries to max -'s to hit. It is an obvious list that is also fairly easy to dissemble.

>> No.56277392

>>56277107
Got +1T, too. Don't see this mentioned.

>> No.56277411

>>56277388
Eldar Rangers don't even re-deploy, they deep strike. Double checkmate, retard.

If you don't have vehicles to charge Shadow Spectres with, block line of sight, or just charge outside flamer range, you're a retard.

>> No.56277415

>>56277313
You must play against shit players. They are incredibly annoying to play against when the person is good. The Eldar players I go up against are obnoxiously good and very rarely lose.
>>56277324
I will admit I love Yvraine and the whatever the cool female avatar thing is and some of the Wraith units are neat. I also like the Dark Eldar pain engine and Wrack units. The rest of the Eldar stuff I don't like the look of it and I especially hate how their vehicles look. I don't know if you can combine all those units I listed, but if you can and I may pick them up down the road.
>>56277338
I don't want that. There are fun games where you lose and there's annoying armies to play against even if you win. For me, Eldar is the most annoying army to play against.

>> No.56277416

>>56277141
I'd say Ferrus would be more pissed at the IH than the other way around considering their whole "THE FLESH IS WEAK" schtick being the opposite of what he believed.

>> No.56277420

>>56277388
>rangers can redeploy for free
?

>> No.56277421

>>56277324
You're right anon, I'll just start my melee unit in the back of my deployment and run them instead of infiltrating them, they won't get shot down turn one
So as I said do you just want to pick a fight or do you not understand the basics of 40k? Because I could see Both still

>> No.56277434

>>56277153
3 flat, not d3. Small downgrade from d6, but the mortal wounds make up for it.

>>56277204
>>56277332
Now instead of 7 attacks and one must be used on the tail, he gets 6 attacks +1 with the tail. Same effect, but feels less like a restriction and more like a bonus.

>> No.56277436

>>56277411
>>56277420

No its the stratagem. It is almost like you aren't even aware of the actual tools available to Eldar to stop things like infiltrating berzerkers.

>> No.56277442

>Eldar become high tier again
>"Eldar aren't WAAC guys you just suck" fags come out of the woodwork again instantly
Pottery

>> No.56277444

>>56277421
What, do you play on a 12x12 board where the only option is to deploy in front of a screen or at the back of your army?

>> No.56277450

>>56277242
>Fantasy Flight Games 2015

>> No.56277454

>>56277442

I've played the army since 3rd's CW:E - I've always played the top tier build and I've never apologized. I still have all my metal rangers from Disruption days.

>> No.56277458

>>56276239
I like the Exorcists, but I wish they were a little bit better fleshed out.

-How would Guilliman react to learning about the daemonic possession and exorcism they go through? One assumes he's been pragmatic about it, since Primaris Exorcists are a thing now.

-Do the Grey Knights know about the possession thing? One assumes they would (especially if the Exorcists ARE a successor chapter of theirs) -- are they okay with it? (I can only find one questionable quote of Wikia 40k that lacks sourcing that suggests they know, but are revolted by it)

-How do they react when people ask them who their Primarch is? Do they lie? Just say "we don't know"? (And is it really the Emperor, and how the hell does THAT gene-seed work?)

-How badly would other Imperial factions and chapters freak out if they learned how the Exorcists are made? (One assumes at least a few would immediately reach for the Exterminatus button.)

-Does the whole daemonic possession and exorcism process make them invisible to daemons? The lore is a bit broken on that one -- could they stroll up to a daemonette on an invaded planet without being seen and just smash it with impunity, or is it only in terms of being perceived by daemons that haven't materially manifested?

-Wouldn't they freak out psykers due to the faded/complete lack of presence in the Warp (though not to the same extent as pariahs)?

-Do they play nice with other Space Marines/Imperial factions? A few have been mentioned in the Deathwatch, so one assumes they can, at least.

They're a fun chapter, but they don't get used a whole bunch.

>> No.56277460

>>56277436
Let's be realistic here. If they're using Phantasm (which doesn't just work on Rangers btw, you retard) and Webway Assault then they're shit out of CP and if you still can't win against that, you're a retard.

>> No.56277463

>>56277436
>free

>> No.56277489

>>56277361

What big bugs are you taking?

>> No.56277492

>>56277460

It does work on rangers - both happen before the first battle round and there is no reason I cannot deploy my rangers first then use phantasm. Also since when is 3 CP crippling? My lists routinely have 10.

>>56277463

I actually didn't mean to loop you into that.

>> No.56277505

Okay keep telling me how eldar is op guys, I'm taking notes

>> No.56277527

>>56277415
I usually just da jump my shoota boyz 9 inches away from their troops, open all my guns at the second closest unit then charge the closest one. Usually wipe out both units then move in 3 inches to lock myself into combat with a third unit. Then I repeat.

At 2000 points I have 120 boyz in squads of 30, a weirdboy, 2 big meks with force fields and 18 smasher gunz.

>> No.56277529

>>56277505
I wouldn't say OP, just not fun to play against.

>> No.56277535

>>56277489
Idea was flyrant, screamer killers, trygon tunneling some dudes for board control, honestly wasn't sure after that. Probably more cc dudes since I can get a leman Russ for my back field

>> No.56277537

>>56277444
Alright now I'm gonna suspect you just want to pick a fight because you're pretending you don't understand why footslogging berserkers are trash if they aren't in your face turn one
The opponent claims a corner, castles up, deploys a screen that covers thier army, berserkers or whatever your big bad unit is comes in, the screen is redeployed, berserkers are blown up turn one, any dangerous shooty units that haven't put a dent in -12 to hit units die turn 2-3, then super fast units like warp spider move out to claim objectives and mop up, meanwhile rangers are 360 no scoping any characters like smite spammers that could threaten and don't have thier bubble wraps pealed away
I'm not saying it's the most Op build ever to grace 40k or even Eldar, but you refuse to admit it's even a strong list which it objectively is
This is your last (you) because I feel I've stated my case and it'll just turn into insult throwing, try not to think in absolutes from now on though anon

>> No.56277541

>>56277505
Eldar isn't. Ynnari is

>> No.56277545

>>56277505

Eldar paired with Ynnari is where its worst.

>> No.56277546

>>56277458
I don't understand friend, they are locked in a room with people to kill them if they aren't strong enough to exorcise the demon out of them.

>> No.56277558

>>56277505
Eh, they are high tier to mid tier, they just are the newest cheese and aren't super fun to play against

>> No.56277568

How do we fix the psychic phase?

>> No.56277582

>>56277535

Unless you are bringing IG tanks I wouldn't bring cult russes. They are in a bad bad spot from the index. Back field shooting is not the GSC strong suit.

>> No.56277598

>>56276587

Power axes were initiative 1

>> No.56277599

>>56277537
Why would you footslog berserkers when you can put them in transports? If you're gonna infiltrate them, do it outside line of sigth. Stop being retared.

>> No.56277607

>>56277546
Yes, I know, I was asking questions mostly about how the rest of the Imperium perceives them or would react if they ever discovered exactly WHY the Exorcists need so many extra initiates and suffer such high casualties in the last stages of elevating initiates to full marine status. I know and like the idea of pragmatically exorcising them of possession or killing them if the process goes wrong. It's the stuff around it that isn't explained too well.

>> No.56277614

>>56277568
Maybe a limit to how many Psykers you can have. Then armies that are all known for being strong psykers can take more.

>> No.56277618

>>56277458
-I'd assume Guilliman may not aprove but like you said he's a pragmatist and sees that it's worth it.
-In the initial test battle where the exorcists fought and killed all those deamons there were Grey Knights on standby incase it diddn't work, I'd assume that they know and tolerate their existence.
-"We have no idea"
-this
-The way I see it is they have a greatly reduced presence, it's like being around a tau but there's even less of a presence
-In a deathwatch novel an exorcist is assigned to the squad to babysit the librarian and kill him if any warp bullshit happens.
-yes

>> No.56277620

>>56277568
Stop giving metric fuckloads of mortal wound generators to cheap psykers.

Spirit Seers can cast a full powered smite, or Executioner which is guaranteed to wipe out a shitload of guys. Malefic Lords turn into daemon princes on a perils and get full powered smites. Primaris Psykers get full powered smites.

That's the problem. Infinite smite on cheap models. That and Eldar in general because Eldar.

>> No.56277627

>>56277361
Yea that's fine. I go heavy on Acolytes/Neophytes/Magus with Carn/Tyrants/Zoans. Will probably pick up OOE soonish for my carns and kind of debating taking some Bullgryns to be his bodyguard since he's 9 wounds now.

>> No.56277629

>>56277599

Not otherwise involved in this discussion but I think this point here proves why 40k discussions are so weird sometimes.

For some folks 'deploy out of LoS' is super easy because they play lots of LoS blocking terrain whereas I've been to some stores where they just don't have a ton of LoS blocking terrain.

>> No.56277630

>>56277607
I see, I dunno man they sacrifice a shit ton of psykers each day to keep the emperor alive, not sure why they'd be any more shocked that a chapter is pulling demons out of themselves and dying in the process

>> No.56277634

>>56277492
It works on anything. You said Rangers had a re-deploy which they don't. 2CP phantasm + 3CP webway assault is almost all of Eldar CPs unless they're running a battalion, in which case, they're not fielding a -2 to hit army.

>> No.56277646

>>56277535
>>56277582
Cult russ' are fine now. They got Faq'd to have IG's Grinding Advance.

>> No.56277647

>>56275890
get a new gf because theres no way im fucking with a guy that can take on a swarm of nids by himself.

>> No.56277653

>>56277634

Webway is only 3 if you use it on 2 units - not really required if you're already using phantasm so its 3 CP.

Also Battalion is the +3 CP, you're thinking Brigade (which you can still do for Alatioc) however I find double battalion is the better build out.

>> No.56277654

>>56277568
Smite can only be cast 3 times a turn

>> No.56277656

>>56277458
Space marines aren't cubicle drones hanging out at the water cooler. They are an "independent" militant arm sworn to defend the imperium.

For the exorcists to exist and not be excommunicate they must have the favor of some inquisitors in ordo malleus.

>How would Guilliman react to learning about the daemonic possession and exorcism they go through? One assumes he's been pragmatic about it, since Primaris Exorcists are a thing now.

Guilliman probably doesn't know. And they will keep it that way most likely.

>-Do the Grey Knights know about the possession thing? One assumes they would (especially if the Exorcists ARE a successor chapter of theirs) -- are they okay with it? (I can only find one questionable quote of Wikia 40k that lacks sourcing that suggests they know, but are revolted by it)

Both GK and Exos are lead around by Inquisitors. Hell Red hunters get routinely mind wiped after missions. Inquisitors keep shit like this underwraps. GK backed down on killing Space wolves because they are obedient. GK are also fucking heretics carrying around daemon swords and shit.

>How do they react when people ask them who their Primarch is? Do they lie? Just say "we don't know"? (And is it really the Emperor, and how the hell does THAT gene-seed work?)

When is this ever going to happen? Hey dude whose your primarch?
...
Well?
...

>-Do they play nice with other Space Marines/Imperial factions? A few have been mentioned in the Deathwatch, so one assumes they can, at least.

They are in death watch for stupid RPG gameplay reasons. They shouldn't be in death watch. They shoudl be on a tight leash held by the ordo malleus, for when GK is to busy.

>> No.56277661

Does the Space Marine Dreadnought come with enough parts to assemble all his weapon arms or am I going to have to magnetize stuff together?

>> No.56277665

>>56277629
He was extra retard because he thinks the only way to deploy berserkers was against a screen, or the back of his army.

>> No.56277673

>>56277568
Remove it

>> No.56277675

>>56277568
All Psykers with a cost below ~75 get shite Smite. All Psykers with a cost below ~50 get a negative penalty to cast/deny.

>> No.56277684

>>56277665

Depends on your terrain. I travel to lots of stores through the course of my job. I've seen stores where you just aren't going to end up behind LoS blocking terrain if you choose to infiltrate/otherwise alternate deploy.

>> No.56277687

>>56277568
Attempting to Deny the Witch gets +1 to the attempt.

>> No.56277688

>>56277661
I hope you aren't an ICP fan.

>> No.56277697

>>56277568
IDK, give smite a limit to how many times it can be cast in a turn. 3 should do. That's a start. Small exception for line troops with different versions of smite.

>> No.56277700

>>56277688
kek

>> No.56277723

>>56277673
Completely agree.

As models like Imperial Guard Commanders, Apothecaries, and Enginseers prove, there's fundamentally no need for a phase just for a particular kind of specialist - their rules can be folded into the other phases, however it is appropriate to do so.

>> No.56277737

>>56277723
Apothecaries don't have mental battles from across the table.

>> No.56277750

>>56277582
Doesn't the new Grinding Advance rule apply to them now? Seems like it would make a solid anchor in case you missed first turn.

>> No.56277759

>>56277646
>>56277630

Reason I want to go leman Russ over tyrannofex for my back field is because shooting nids doesn't jive with rerolling wounds in fight phase. Unless there's a better hive fleet trait for what in trying to do, but even then I think grinding advance tips it to the russ

>> No.56277764

>>56277737
So? Imperial Guard Commanders certainly do.

Psykers just aren't important enough for their own Phase. Their shit can be done during Movement or Shooting.

>> No.56277765

>>56277656
Well, since they're in the Deathwatch with other chapters, not to mention occasionally working with other chapters and Imperial organizations in operations like the Badab War, the Third War for Armageddon and the 13th Black Crusade, one assumes they occasionally have SOME contact with other imperial types -- the question would probably come up at some point or other, given how important Primarchs are to Space Marines (and how they can help others predict mutations and/or possible ingrained behavior -- sometimes, anyway).

It's not like they can just blurt out "the Emperor!" after all. Assuming even THEY know, that is.

>> No.56277772

>>56277568
Do it like Kings of War. Rather than "powerful power, succeed or fail," make it "degrees of success."

So, as an example, Warptime becomes "roll X dice. For each 4+, you may move this unit forward an inch."

Denial is "roll X dice. For each 4+, subtract a success from your opponent."

Less swing that way, and uberpowers can be "weakened" even if not completely stopped.

>> No.56277777

>>56277558
Not fun to play against is the broadest, most thrown out complaint about everything

>> No.56277783

>>56277777
Checked.

>> No.56277792

>>56277764
>So? Imperial Guard Commanders certainly do.
No, they don't.
>Psykers just aren't important enough for their own Phase.
If you're going to have Deny the Witch, then you really need to stick it into a single phase. I wouldn't mind seeing Deny the Witch disappear (I think that it has historically been poorly balanced and implemented), but as long as it is in, a psychic phase makes sense.

What even is the argument against the psychic phase? They're going to be casting their spells either way.

>> No.56277793

Okay so how should blast weapons increase as they attack larger units. Should it be a flat d3 that increases d3 for each increase in 5? Like with 5 its only d3 10 is 2d3 15 is 3d3 and so on.

>> No.56277805

>If a warlock rolls 10 up (or whatever it is) do they get the d6 roll for smite?

>> No.56277806 [SPOILER] 

>>56277361
point for point, genestealers out perform any of the nidzilla bugs.

>> No.56277815

>>56277772
Yes, degrees of success would make not only psychic better, but also combat, both shooting and melee.

>> No.56277829

>>56277777
I mean I'm not gonna argue against those digits but it's a reasonable complaint if someone is just trying to enjoy a game
If you ask someone if they had fun and they say no you can't tell them they are subjectively wrong and should still force themselves to play
Now if it's a tourney fuck off, people come there to win and you should expect there to be autists who don't care if they or thier opponent enjoys themselves

>> No.56277830

>>56277793
>plasma inceptors get 4d3 plasma shots each against 10 man units

Aaarrrggghhh

>> No.56277832 [SPOILER] 

>>56277805
no, their smite only does 1 dmg.

bring spirit seers

>> No.56277840

>>56277772
Denial should be less efficient than casting. If you're going to go that route, I would make it so that the power determines the X+ needed to cast and each caster instead generates Y dice that they can split between their spells however you want. Denial would also generate dice.

>> No.56277842

>>56277793
>not this shit again
>AnnoyedorJadedAnimeGirl.jpg

>> No.56277849

>>56277793

>"My 3 mortars will fire at your 20-man blob"
>"So that's 3(4d3)."
>"You're keeping track of all these D3s, right?"
Don't over-complicate it. Demolisher cannon rules are as complex as blast rules should go.

>> No.56277854

>>56277764
I wonder if maybe they should move things like orders and healing to the psychic phase and call it the "Abilities" phase.

Putting Orders in the "Abilities" phase would force IG players to think ahead and guess what would orders sufficient for their needs. As it is, if I want to advance but also rank fire I can have each of my CCs order rank fire once, then if the enemy is destroyed order second squads to advance. Or alternatively if one or more units does survive the attacks I can just as easily have the commanders use their second orders for more rank fires.

If all those units already had orders from the psychic phase those kind of on-the-fly changes wouldn't happen.

Or maybe that would just make keeping track of IG units and orders unnecessarily complicated.

>> No.56277857

>>56277764
>movement or shooting
If it's in either of those it's broken, it's obviously best between

>> No.56277859

>>56277765
Since you mention the badab war. Who are the astral claws primarch? When they were loyal what did they answer?

There are tonnes of isolationist unfriendly chapters. When they have to cooperate they do so. They might even have some banter about how good each other is at killing. But there is no reason to think they hang out and swap backstories. These guys aren't guardsmen, they are children molded in to weapons and indoctrinated towards one purpose.

>> No.56277870

>>56277805
For everyone other than Aspiring Sorcerers, Scarab Occult Sorcerers, and Magnus, you only get super-smite on an 11+ (if you get it at all).

>> No.56277879

>>56277854
So a phase where characters should be able to do thier... heroic actions... maybe like a... phase for heroes?

>> No.56277886

What went wrong?

>> No.56277890

>>56277208
I don't know what this guy >>56277287

you don't need 2 weirdboyz unless you want to smite spam, and the KFF is really only going to help the kans and dread since everyone else will be jumped ahead. dreads are good with 4 claws and devastating with a banner behind them but they will get shot at on the way up so maybe the mek would be a solid investment

>> No.56277894

>>56277849
>>56277793
These don't address the core issue, in my opinion: That you can target a unit intermixed with 2 or three other units, but only wipe out the one unit while the others literally in base contact with the destroyed unit don't take any damage.

>> No.56277897

>>56277886
Poor balance. They'll probably double in price when CA hits.

>> No.56277905

>>56277859
Given that they ARE part of the "Dark Founding," I suppose it's not out of the question to just have 'em say "we have no idea, but we're sure he was a great guy" if the question ever got asked. It's not like anyone ELSE knows either, outside of perhaps the Ordo Malleus.

>> No.56277910

>>56277886
Undercosted by 35 points.

>> No.56277919

>>56277806
Is that taking them in nids or as pure strains? Kinda want to do pure strain to get that extra strength and attack from their psychic discipline

>> No.56277923

>>56277653
Phantasm is the re-deploy, Webway is for deep striking Shadow Specters, which apparently wrecks OP.

I was thinking precisely Battalion. But go ahead bring 3 Rangers and HQ bloat, I'll play.

>> No.56277928

>>56277886
>Wait4ChapterApproved/10

>> No.56277950

Could you paint an entire model using the gemstone technical paints? I just used some Waystone Green for the first time, and it looks great. Is it too viscous to adequately spread over power armor?

>> No.56277952

>>56277879
I wouldn't call humping a Leman Russ to extinguish an engine fire "Heroic", but I would call extinguishing said fire with your creepy cyborg fluids an "Ability".

Also, if that's how AOS works, then I can't say that it's a bad way of organizing special actions.

>> No.56277953

>>56277840
The numbers themselves tweaked accordingly, but the idea itself is sound I hope. I mean, "all-or-nothing" crapshoots just aren't fun, like 7e D and Stomps show. And of course, internal balance should matter; the game shouldn't be "gee, do I take Smite or Null Zone" (ala 5th), or "gee, do I take Eadbanger or Da Jump" (ala 8th). Every power should have viable purpose, and be fairly distinct from being "another gun" (which is what Smite currently is).

Back in 7th, I had worked on something like this: Each Discipline had 4 basic and 2 advanced powers, and for each advanced power, you had to take two basic powers from that same discipline. So you couldn't have a caster that knew Vortex of Doom, Mass Hallucination, or Telekine Dome without knowing the basics first. This also made internal balance somewhat easier, as it meant that the dangerous powers required additional investment to unlock.

>>56277792
I remember playing Psykers before 7th brought back the Psychic Phase from 2e. 5th edition is where things got really goofy, as the ambiguity of "game turn versus player turn," combined with certain powers being cast in unconventional phases, led to more bookkeeping than was really needed.

Plus there was some horrid RAW with Eldar Psykers, which were 4th ed in 5th: They cast "at the start of the turn," but two of their powers were Psychic Shooting attacks, and thus had to be cast in the Shooting Phase.

>> No.56277959

>>56277919
They are largely the same, but you will miss out on free power swords for every 4 genestealers, stratagems, and hive fleet traits.

>> No.56277970

>>56277923

2 rangers is more than enough and Eldar should be playing with a fairly high HQ count regardless - the current psychic discipline really benefits from several psykers - taking 4 HQs isn't unreasonable in most lists.

Also I still fail to understand how 3 CP from 10 is really that crippling.

>> No.56277973

>>56277870
Wait so they do get super smite?

>> No.56277980

>>56277952
Yup, basically in the hero phase stuff like swarmy giving the double move and orders would all happen at once, instead of this "at the beginning of the shooting phase/ end of the movement phase" bullshit

>> No.56277983

>>56277806

>Hormagaunt attacks: 2.3332
I know that Hormagaunts have a flat attack stat of 2, but could someone please explain where the .3332 is coming from?
Thank you.

>> No.56278000

>>56277870
Yup, it becomes pretty likely when you have 20 dudes rolling smite in one turn
Also not hard to do

>> No.56278004

>>56277953
>the idea itself is sound I hope
I think so.

>> No.56278012

>>56277806
Hey math anon, do you have one for warriors weapon options?

>> No.56278017

>>56277894
Personally, I am a fan of just bringing back blast templates, making squad coherency 1" or so (just to shut up people whining about 'muh maximum coherency' sperging), and rather than it being scatter, make it a to-hit roll for each model underneath the AOE.

And *mayyyybe* an extra D3 hits against the unit the blast is centered over, just for "direct hits" with Battle Cannons...but honestly, I would rather that the Russ and Vanquisher be rolled up into a single choice again.

>> No.56278022

>>56277983
Scything talon rerolls

>> No.56278023

>>56277973
Why don't you read the Codex?

>> No.56278024

>>56277568
The Nid way, how else?

>> No.56278027

>>56277983
it's to account for rerolls of 1.

>>56277973
They don't.

>Destructor: When this model manifests the Smite psychic power, it has a range of 9" rather than 18" and only deals a single mortal wound.
>only deals a single mortal wound.
>a single mortal wound.
>single

>>56278012
Yes, i just finished it.

>> No.56278028

>>56277970
That's exactly what I thought. 2 Rangers and something that doesn't have -1 to hit. It's not a -2 army then.

You can't have 10 if you want a -2 army.

>> No.56278035

>>56277950
Its going to look awful unless you airbrush

>> No.56278044

>>56277849
Okay its definitely a bit more complicated than i first intended. I think i over thought how poor blast weapons on after basing them off that most old blast weapons are shit. But doing what i suggested would probably only buff the ones that are already decent and only slightly change the ones that are shit. I think it might be less the problem with how many hits a model does and more with how their AP works. As it used to be that Most blast templates took away Armour and now its like some deny armour while others still allow the armour at a shitty save.

>> No.56278048

>>56277905
I would expect more belligerence personally. They would probably quote some arrogant catechism back.
"Only the Emperor is worthy of remembrance" or some shit.
Space marines aren't nice they are cunts.
"What about your primarch?"
"He that questions the might of the Emperor deserves only contempt."

You are acting like marines are soft faggots like normal people, they are indoctrinated cunts. Exorcists should be assholes with an odd vibe and dead eyes. They should be laconic, arrogant and looking for an excuse to cleave in your skull. When you mention the warp chaos anything, like that they should perk up like an attack dog smelling heresy. Making them friendly is retarded.

>> No.56278050

>>56278017
>just bringing back blast templates,
No thanks. Actually using them was a pain in the ass that lead to arguments, and trying to optimally space your dudes was time-consuming.

>> No.56278053

I wonder if the Orks will get some sort of super smite, and how powerful it will be.

>Weirdboy 'Eadbutt!
Warp Charge 6: Target an Enemy Character up to 18" away. Inflict D3 Mortal Wounds. If you roll a 6 for the number of Mortal Wounds, the weirdboy takes one mortal wound and the enemy takes a further D3 MW. These MW can generate additional mortal wounds until either the weirdboy or the target dies.

>> No.56278058

>>56278028

You keep assuming I give a shit about the -2 army. I already said it wasn't good. This WHOLE thing stemmed from you giving bad advice on how to deal with Shadow Spectres. You need to get the people you're responding to.

I'm not the guy who gives a flying fuck about having a -2 to hit army or playing against it.

>> No.56278077

>>56278058
The topic is about the -2 army, you retard.

>> No.56278082

>>56278027
>TFW destuctor used to be a flamer template of rape
>now its just a chastity belt for smite

>> No.56278100

>>56278058
If you can't charge from 9" away and/or charge with vehicles, you're bad.

>> No.56278114

>>56277890
I guess he could use two weirdboyz to do that one spell that gives your guys one extra attack then da jump and hope he doesn't fail the 9 inch charge.

>> No.56278116

>>56278100
>if you can't make a statistically unlikely charge, you're bad
Where did this meme come from and how can we make it stop?

>> No.56278131

>>56277620
Spiritseers use Runes of Battle, not Runes of Fate (which Executioner belongs to). Which is just as well, not that RoB isn't great, but if Executioner was RoB then 35 pt Warlocks with it would be nuts.

>> No.56278139

>>56277777
The biggest reasons why they are annoying
>Long range -4AP, no fun maybe I will make that 6+ save moments
>Serpent Shields making D3 and 2 Damage weapons notably less useful
>Easy access to -1 to hit
>Annoying Psychic powers that are likely to go off, have tons of denies to shut down yours too
>Fly keyword being one of the biggest offenders, ignoring terrain and leaving and shooting after being charged
>Highly mobile so they can just run away no problem

Basically it's like fighting someone who dances around you just out of reach, while spitting in your face without actually directly fighting you. Even if you end up punching him and knocking him out, you still have spit all over you.

>> No.56278142

>>56278050
This is why I said "get rid of the scatter die" and lower squad coherency to 1 inch. Optimal spacing is going to be a thing one way or the other because "muh bubblewrap" or "muh congaline" or stuff. That's assuming they don't just play Mordians and run musket-drills because the penalties to bunching up like it's Napoleonic-era warfare have been mostly nullified.

Truth be told, the real reason small blasts were fairly marginalized in 7th was a general creep in base sizes; Marines going from 28mm to 32mm, the Barkstar being a bunch of 8-point wolves on Terminator Bases, etc. The cynic in me believes the real reason templates are gone though is because unlike plastic dudemans, terrain, etc, templates are something GW can only sell a consumer once.

>> No.56278149

>>56278077

Wrong - this is about you saying the way to deal with Shadow Spectres is to charge them.

>>56278100

Charging from 9" is not statistically likely to occur, it isn't the longest shot but it isn't going to happen more than not. Also - you should never be closer than roughly 30" to Shadow Spectres if the Eldar player is competent.

>> No.56278164

>>56278116
Ever heard of re-rolls? Charge with your vehicles if you're so afraid of the spooky dice.

>> No.56278166

>>56278116
Stop taking the b8 and itll go away

>> No.56278185

>>56278166
bait never goes away it merely changes form.

>> No.56278186

>>56278149
So do it turn 2. If they're too far to get charged, they're too far to shoot. Jesus, do you retards even play?

>> No.56278193

>>56278012
Deathspitters+boneswords

>> No.56278198

>>56275890
Fix bayonets

>> No.56278202

>>56278172
So you don't play. You just stay at home and do maths. Okay.

It's a dice game, you retard. By the same account, those Shadow Spectres could do very little damage.

>> No.56278207

>>56278164
>Ever heard of re-rolls?
Even with a re-roll, you will fail a 9" charge a majority of the time. I can see why you would find dice spooky if you don't understand even basic math.

>> No.56278212

>>56278186

You don't seem to understand the basic strategy of 'webway deploy at 18' then use the Fire and Fade strategem to move.

>> No.56278215

>>56275890
Send in my Bullgryn and have a big boy show down.

>> No.56278229

>>56278139
That's why I play them, it's not because they're op it's just fun to do all that shit.

>> No.56278234

>>56278139
You could do a list like that for every faction though, point being, everything gets called unfun to play against.
Aside from whatever is bottom tier, everyone finds that guy fun to play against

>> No.56278235

>>56278164
You understand that with re-rolls, 9+ charges happen 47.84% (less than half) of the time, right?

>> No.56278238

>>56278166

The statement isn't inaccurate - it is statistically unlikely that you will roll an 8 or better on 2D6. Even with a re-roll it will occur less than 50% of the time (which is a poor strategy to rely on).

>> No.56278239

>>56278024
>yfw Nids get specific updates each year to counter the reigning tournament meta

>> No.56278245

>>56278207
Then don't play. Nothing works, everything fails.

>>56278212
Move your turn, shoot, charge. Simple.

>> No.56278246

>>56277777
Nurgle backs your call not to be a bitch.

>> No.56278248

>>56278048
I was being a little facetious. I don't expect most Space Marines to be school guidance counsellors, after all. The Exorcists ARE stated to be quite calm outside of battle, though. Probably more like monks than anything else -- respond to inquiries with Buddhist-like koans and sayings and that sort of thing. Infuriating in a different way.

They're supposed to be really aggressive in a fight though, ESPECIALLY when Chaos is around, so the perking up bit is probably pretty accurate.

>> No.56278249

>>56278238
This is false. With a re-roll, 8+ will happen more than half the time - in fact, nearly 2/3 the time.

>> No.56278254

>>56278114
true but the first round of boyz may only be hitting fodder units so it would be a waste, better to shield the dreads from lascannon fire

>> No.56278255

>>56278235
More than half of the armies in this game shoot on a 4+. Doesn't mean they shouldn't.

Go home. Don't play.

>> No.56278258

>>56278245

You have to cover 25" of ground in a turn - not that simple.

>>56278249

This is incorrect - it is roughly 47-48% of the time.

>> No.56278259

>>56278212
>not quicken

Bruh

>> No.56278265

>>56277805
Nope, only on Conclaves of 7+ (no need to roll 10+).

>> No.56278271

>>56278259

Quicken is for getting D-Scythes in range.

>> No.56278272

>>56278258
Good thing Fade and Fire is once per phase, eh?

Stay at home kiddos.

>> No.56278273

>>56278245
>Then don't play. Nothing works, everything fails.
Stop saying stupid shit that's easily proven wrong.

>> No.56278286

>>56278272

It only needs to work on one unit. It only needs to function once per phase for the unit you care about. That is an invalid counter to the strategy.

>> No.56278290

>>56278258
>This is incorrect - it is roughly 47-48% of the time.
That's for 9+. 8+ is more likely (also irrelevant to the discussion at hand).

>> No.56278296

>>56278273
Prove it.

>>56278286
It's an army of Shadow Spectres. If it's just one, and you can't handle it, you're retarded.

>> No.56278297

>>56277886
FW can't into balance, in more than one way. Funny thing is, they're PL4, and PL to points is usually on the order of 15-20 equivalence. But they cost 30 for some retarded reason.

>> No.56278299

>>56278258
That's not how math works.

Odds of an 8+ with re-rolls: 0.65972222222222222222222222222222

Odds of 9+ with re-rolls: 0.4783950617283950617283950617284

>> No.56278306

How the fuck do giant characters like Greater daemons, Daemon princes, hive tyrants and Avatars of Khaine lose in single combat to slightly larger than human sized characters like space marine captains and Autarchs? It makes no fucking sense how these giant gods of war are even remotely challenged by something significantly smaller. It would make sense if they were slow behemoths, but all of these things are usually as fast and much more experienced than their adversaries.

>> No.56278312

>>56278296

It isn't an army - its one unit.Supported by lots of other units.

>> No.56278313

Thoughts on this bad boy?
I'm seriously rusing the thought of having 2 or three of them in my army for the rape.

>> No.56278320

>>56278248
Space marines wrote learn hate. They don't usually think a great deal. Mantis warriors probably spout koans out the arse thou.

Catholic space nazis. That's the imperium.

>> No.56278331

>>56278296
>Prove it.
Prove that 1-(26/36)^2=~48%? How bad at math are you?

>> No.56278332

>>56278306
>why do faceless monsters always job to heros

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWorfEffect

>> No.56278341

>>56278296
I see you've gotten a couple people to take the b8, figured I didn't need to keep responding and I was right
What are you gonna spend all your (you)'s on?

>> No.56278343

>>56278053
As a general rule, offensive powers tend to be worse than Smite (Gaze of the Emperor, Vortex of Doom, Mind War, etc) mathematically. There's a few better ones (Executioner vs single wound units, Plague Wind versus 12+ model units, Stream of Corruption vs 10+), but on the whole it's Smite or bust. I'd say 'Eadbanger is as good as it'll get (which is to say, ass), but maybe we'll get that funny Gork/Mork stomp spell.

>> No.56278345

>>56278299
I'm sure that .3 below 50% will make it impossible to charge Shadow Spectres.

>>56278312
Then find someone else to talk to because I was talking to an OP who was fighting a bunch of Shadow Spectres. One unit is easy to shoot down or ignore until you can charge it.

>>56278331
That doesn't prove that nothing works and everything fails.

>> No.56278346

>>56278306
They dodge attacks and usually use relic weapons and plot armor

>> No.56278349

>>56278306
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=887iOKhC2lc

>> No.56278361

>>56278306
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VeVLZvZZvw&t=38s

>> No.56278369

>>56278229
I'm sure it is. It's the same reason why people shitpost. It's fun to be obnoxious.
>>56278234
No, that's not right.

>> No.56278371

>>56278306
>Greater daemons, Daemon princes, hive tyrants and Avatars of Khaine
Literally every one of these has scarier melee stats than SM Captains or Autarchs. The only way either of those two has a chance is if they're using marvels of technology bordering on magic, which is the answer to your question.

>> No.56278374

>>56278343
Blood Boil isnt that bad compared to smite which is nice.

>> No.56278379

>>56277806
Yeah but genestealers are ugly models and rule of cool

>> No.56278380

>>56278239
It's fluffy. How could we not adapt?

>> No.56278387

>>56278345
>That doesn't prove that nothing works and everything fails.
Why would I have to prove your strawman? I've already proved my assertion, all you've done is shitpost and strawman.

>> No.56278391

>>56278371
Or they get shot up beforehand.

>> No.56278395

>>56278254
>He never charged a full 30 boyz into a tank on turn one.

Have you ever lived?

>> No.56278398

>>56278306
Ever play shadow of the colossus, fallout 4, gears of war, or any game that has you fighting big bad guys who are bigger and badder than you?

>> No.56278401

>>56275678
>>56275644
>>56275634
A perfect game of red-clad rock, paper, sisters.

>> No.56278403

>>56278379
>genestealers are ugly models
>play GSC

>> No.56278404

>>56278387
You were replying to that statement saying that it could easily be proven. Prove it.

Prove all your maths and stay at home, kiddo.

>> No.56278407

>>56278313
I really fucking hate that model. Its like a kids first kitbash. Can't speak for how it is on the table though.

>> No.56278409

>>56277759
I mean it's fine either way. Pick what you think has the better weapons for your meta.
>>56278306
Ever see a cartoon or movie where the hero is doing hit and run tactics and constantly running around areas the big bad can't hit him? Thats how I always imagine it.

>> No.56278412

>>56278082
How's this sound
>Remove solo character Warlocks, too much overlap with Spiritseers
>Warlocks can only be taken in Conclaves
>Only know Smite, no other powers
>Drop points to 20-ish
>Destructor, in addition to the existing penalties, is cast on d6+1 for a 50% chance to cast with an easy Deny
>However, it can be cast on a per-model rather than per-unit basis
>End result: dedicated unit for short-ranged and individually weak but strong when massed MW spam, serving as elite infantry for dealing with high invuln units like TH/SS termies
>Actually fits the fluff of them being former Aspect Warriors using their psychic powers for offensive purposes

>> No.56278415

>>56278391
Well, that's always an option as well. I think that guy just doesn't get 40k as a setting. It's about space knights running around fighting space orks and space demons. The knight being able to slay the dragon is just part of that.

>> No.56278419

>>56278004
Thanks. Anyway, I suppose I can dump what I have in a later thread. What I had for the "7.5" Psyker system was:

-Each Psyker gets 2 dice per mastery level, but can only use their own dice. (No "Horrors give all their Warp Charge to Magnus" or so). Alternately, it could be "1 plus Warp Charge."
-Every power had 'degrees of success', with 1-4 levels of strength. More than 4 successes was treated as 4, but harder to Deny.
-Perils was on Double 1s.
-Optionally, some Psykers could "push." They would get a 'free' Warp Charge die, which was colored separately from the rest; if that rolled a 1, the result was Perils and the power failing. (The "Magic Mushroom" rule from WHFB 8th, basically).

And things went off into loony-bin territory from there, and probably could be trimmed down. Some powers were "Resonance Powers," which meant they could be cast out-of-sequence if certain conditions were met (aka "you just activated my Trap Card."). For example, Pyromancy had a power called "Burn the Witch!" which would attempt to incinerate an enemy Psyker upon manifesting a power, with a strength dependent on how many successes said Psyker had in casting.

And then there were the "utility auras", which were 'two-way' effects. As an example (since in this system, Deep Strike used Scatter), Warp Quake would "stop" any Teleporting units that scattered inside its bubble. It could either be used for screening your army, or you could position several Warp Quake generators to ensure that your own guys didn't scatter off-course or over-teleport. Think like how Thrawn uses Interdictor Star Destroyers.

Anyway, Psyker Powers should require thought to work, but reward semi-creative usage.

>> No.56278423

>>56278379
>Genestealers are ugly
Shit taste detected.

>> No.56278429

So it appears that units which failed their charge roll still count as having "charged" and therefore still get to pile-in and consolidate in the subsequent Fight phase.

You guys realize this means Hormagaunts literally cannot fail to make it into range to shut down a units shooting, right?

>> No.56278435

>>56278346
>be swarmlord
>have 4 swords that are pretty much one hit kill to anything man-sized
>be able to move said swords fast enough for them to appear as a blur
>have aeons of experience against countless foes
>have potent Psychic powers and a warp shield
>be 20 feet tall and covered in adamant in hard armor
>lose in a duel to a single space marine chapter master armed with an axe
>inb4 jobber

It makes no sense, no matter how you look at it. Even if the swarmlord was shrunk down to warrior size it should be an extremely difficult fight, especially with the 4 weapons

>> No.56278436

>>56278404

>> No.56278438

>>56278429
So even if you fail your charge, you can still move 3 inches towards the enemy?

>> No.56278443

>>56278412
Give them a built in Jynx and free singing spears and an extra fight phase attack.

I really want the psychic blender

>> No.56278446

>>56278429
Ask the anon who would rather get shot at rather than roll dice for a 47% chance charge.

>> No.56278448

>>56278271
It's so weird that D-Scythes are D1. Like, what's the use case for S10 AP-4 D1? Not that they aren't strong, but their whole profile (including the flamer bit) is like someone mashed up two entirely disparate weapons (in this case, a burna and a wraithcannon) and called it a day.

>> No.56278453

>>56278429
That doesn't sound right. You can only pile in if you can choose that unit to fight.

>> No.56278463

>>56278429
Exact wording pls.
This better not be another drive-by demon-summon meme.

>> No.56278464

>>56278436
>watermark
you should be ashamed of yourself

>> No.56278466

>>56278438
Technically but it instantly makes you That Guy.

>> No.56278467

>>56278139
>Basically it's like fighting someone who dances around you just out of reach, while spitting in your face without actually directly fighting you.
You make them sound like Muhammad Ali.
Now I want to play them.

>> No.56278468

>>56278395
I wish I played people like that but at my store it is screens everywhere

>> No.56278471

>>56278448
It'll delete anything it touches, but only what it touches.

>> No.56278473

>>56278438
That's if something else landed the charge right?

>> No.56278478

>>56278306
>myspeedissuperiorsoimsuretowin.png
Same reason some nice armor makes them tougher than tanks and hammers hit harder than missiles, anon. It's fun.

>> No.56278480

>>56278448
What? No. Clearly nobody would just phone it in and call it a day for the MOST PLAYTESTED EDITION, right?

>> No.56278489 [DELETED] 

>>56278467
And Ali was an obnoxious piece of shit racist. Surprise surprise.

>> No.56278490

>>56278379
This. I fucking hate Genestealers models. The purestrain that come in the Overkill box look good though. I think it's the lack of the chitin that makes em look outta place.
>>56278403
Acolytes/Metamorphs look fairly different from Genestealers. Other than that the only uniting theme in GSC is bald people.

>> No.56278494

>>56278438
No. Because if you fail the charge, even if you move the additional 3" you still can't land within 1" of an enemy unit.

>> No.56278495

>>56278453
No, models that charged in the charge phase can pile in. RAW, even if you fail, you stil charged.

>> No.56278496

>>56278435
>>lose in a duel to a single space marine chapter master armed with an axe
Are you referring to Dante? I'm sure the jump pack, inferno pistol, and 1,500+ years of experience helped.

>> No.56278497

>>56278448
>Like, what's the use case for S10 AP-4 D1
Smashing elite shit, duh.
>their whole profile (including the flamer bit) is like someone mashed up two entirely disparate weapons (in this case, a burna and a wraithcannon) and called it a day.
Are you serious? That's been the D-Scythe since it was first created.

>> No.56278502

>>56278438
Yes, and then consolidate another 3" as well.

>>56278453
OR if you charged that turn. Note it doesn't say successful charge. The main rulebook FAQ even addresses this, and says if a unit that charged is more than 1" away from any enemy models it can still pile-in, and if it's STILL somehow more than 1" away, it can't make any attacks, but can then consolidate.

So if a hormagaunt unit 12" away from the enemy makes a charge roll and fails, it then piles-in 6", fails to make any attacks because too far away, and then consolidates in 6". Guaranteed tap on the nose to prevent a unit shooting next turn, as long as they were close enough to declare a charge roll.

>> No.56278511

>>56278489
That's also the eldar

>> No.56278512

>>56278489
>And Ali is the greatest boxer of all time. Surprise surprise.
fix'd

>> No.56278516

>>56278495
>>56278502
Looks like an oversight then. Email GW so they can fix it.

>> No.56278525

>>56278464
I saved it off of 4chan and never noticed it, but I'm just going to pretend that it's meta-bait.

>> No.56278526

>>56278468
People don't risk it all on turn one at your store?

>> No.56278536

>>56278494
>even if you move the additional 3" you still can't land within 1" of an enemy unit
You aren't required to get within 1" in order to make the pile-in, you just have to end the pile-in move closer to the nearest enemy.

Ofcourse, if you are more than 1" away after the pile-in, you cannot attack. But then you can still consolidate, regardless.

So any charge from 7" or closer CANNOT fail to get you in range of an enemy even if you can't swing at them. For Horms, that's 12".

>> No.56278537

>>56278374
It kinda is, I'm afraid. In its ideal use case of T3 targets (RIP Commissars) it does about 1.5 MWs on average, less as you go up the scale. However, the Death Guard power Curse of the Leper is the same thing only way better (no less than 7 tests versus 3). And guess who just happens to have a -T aura?

But yeah Contagion might just be the best psychic discipline in the game currently. Dark Hereticus and both Runes are also contenders.

>> No.56278540

>>56278502
Pile in and consolidate is part of fight sequence. You can't fight if you're not within 1" of the enemy.

>> No.56278549

>>56278511
Exactly.
>>56278512
>Ali was the greatest boxer of his time and was a piece of shit racist and a draft dodging pussy

fix'd for you too

>> No.56278550

This
>>56278494
Was meant for
>>56278429

>> No.56278556

>>56278516
According to the person I first discovered this with, the designers mentioned on one of their streamed games that this was intentional so that units which failed a charge from only 3"-4" away can still make combat.

>> No.56278567

What are screens?

>> No.56278571

>>56278556
Bullshit. No pile in/consolidate moves unless you fight.

>> No.56278572

>>56278540
You can if you charged, read the Fight rules. Fight sequences triggers if you A) are within 1" of the enemy OR B) you charged that turn.

It specifically doesn't say successfully charged, and apparently that's intentional.

>> No.56278574

>>56278549
Him being a racist, draft dodging pussy, or nigger doesn't change him being the best boxer of all time.

>> No.56278575

>>56278536
That doesn't sound right.

>> No.56278586

>>56278412
I'd be happy with

Destructor: This spell automatically succeeds and can not be deny'd. immediately make d6 8" shooting attacks that are STR5 AP-2 and automatically hit.

>> No.56278587

>>56278540
Incorrect.

"Any unit that charged or has models within 1" of an enemy unit can be chosen to fight in the Fight phase."

>> No.56278592

>>56278572
how can you have charged if the roll in the charge phase means you failed to charge?

>> No.56278593

So if you deepstrike something you're guaranteed a fight?

Nice

>> No.56278598

>>56278567
Large amounts of cheap models to protect more expensive, more deadly, and usually bigger models
Aka bubble wrap

>> No.56278599

>>56278536
But you are not in combat with that unit. So they can still fire next turn...

>> No.56278600

>>56278571
Read the rules. You still pile-in/consolidate if you charged.

>1. Choose Unit to Fight With
>Any unit that charged or has models within 1" of an enemy unit can be chosen to fight in the Fight phase.
>Any unit that charged or

>> No.56278601

>>56278540
The rule for Pile In say states that a unit that charged or is within 1" of an enemy can pile in.

>a unit that charged

>> No.56278605

>>56278574
>Of his time
Fixed it for you again. It does actually change things.

>> No.56278618

>>56278525
I've seen it several times over the weeks in this general. It's actually 10/10. I just hate it.

>> No.56278621

>>56278234
Playing against necrons
>Fun
Try again.

>> No.56278622

>>56278605
Name a better boxer, so we can all see how much of a dumbass you are.

>> No.56278625

>>56278593
You can't go far enough unless you have a bonus to pile-in/consolidate from deepstrike.

>> No.56278631

>>56278592
Because a unit has to declare charge before overwatch, and counts as charging as soon as it declares.

Making the charge roll means you successfully charged.

>>56278593
No, this only works for Hormagaunts because they have double the distance for pile-in and consolidate, and it doesn't guarantee a fight, it only guarantees you get close enough to be in combat with the enemy after consolidating. So they can attack back but you can't attack them.

Still means they have to Fall Back next turn if they want to get out of combat.

>> No.56278632

>>56278600
>>56278601
>>56278593
The rule refers to units that charged, which refers to units that made a charge move as a result of attempting to make a charge move. These /tg/ memes are too much

>> No.56278635

>>56278601
>>56278600
I've never seen this in any games or battle reports ever.

>> No.56278643

>>56278489
Louisville fag here
Please delete your comment anon

>> No.56278645

>>56278599
>But you are not in combat with that unit.
Yes you are, after the consolidate moves.

>> No.56278651

>>56278586
Sounds under powered.
You get 9 str 5 hits with a full conclave.
For the cost of warlock that's kind of nothing.

>> No.56278656

>>56278142
I dont know i think in some way of modifying the shot instead of having to go back onto the old Blast Template model just without the scatter. becuase, as the other anon said, It will cause fights even with the coherency being reduced.

>> No.56278661

>>56278631
>it only guarantees you get close enough to be in combat with the enemy after consolidating.

You cannot get witihin 1" of an enemy unit you FAILED a charge against no matter how far you consolidate/pile in.
What are you not understanding?

>> No.56278664

>>56278632
>The rule refers to units that charged, which refers to units that made a charge move as a result of attempting to make a charge move
Apparently it doesn't.

If that's the case, then Jormungandr all get +1 to their saves against Overwatch, because they don't lose the bonus unless they charged, so if charging isn't decided until after you make the roll, then they don't lose the bonus until after Overwatch was fired.

>> No.56278669

>>56278632
The rules don't clarify that a unit "that charged" refers to a unit that made a successful charge roll or was simply selected to charge. Honestly that seems like an oversight but RAW this new meme doesn't seem to be as easily disprovable as demon drive-bys.

>> No.56278680

>>56278661
>You cannot get witihin 1" of an enemy unit you FAILED a charge against no matter how far you consolidate/pile in.
Yes you can. Read the rules.

>> No.56278681

>>56278632
How the charge phase works
>declare a unit to charge
>roll 2d6 (lets assume the unit fails)
>the unit does not move
>the unit still charged however, it just didn't succeed

Literally just read the rules.

>> No.56278689

So a unit of berzerkers can't fail to at least make it into combat with anything they can declare a charge against?

>> No.56278691

>>56278586
>This spell automatically succeeds and can not be deny'd
Stopped reading right there. Get real, nigga.

>> No.56278698

>>56278669
>The rules don't clarify that a unit "that charged" refers to a unit that made a successful charge roll or was simply selected to charge.
This.

However we do have anecdotal evidence that the designer's mean it to be a unit that was selected to charge. Obviously this isn't a good enough proof to declare the argument case closed, but if it turns out to be true and they FAQ it this way it means Hormagaunts are a guaranteed tarpit from deep strike.

>> No.56278699

>>56278643
>Men defending piece of shit men because they did something other men considered great
The male circle jerk just never ends. What's next? Going to start blaming women for being raped? Well don't look so rapeable next time, am I right guys?

>> No.56278702

>>56278689
and if you use the AL deepstrike trick they are guaranteed 1 fight that turn as well

>> No.56278711

>>56278681
You don't get to move if you don't get close enough?

>> No.56278712

>>56278586
I dunno about can't be denied.
I think it'd be better if the opponent could only deny on 1d6

>> No.56278717

>>56278698
and zerkers

>> No.56278719

W H E N

H

E

N

>> No.56278723

>>56278669
Heading: Choose a unit to charge with
Text: Any of your units within 12" of the enemy in your Charge phase can make a charge move.

That's it, what else could charging refer to.

>>56278664
sure, sounds right

>> No.56278724

>>56278689
Yeah, since they can be chosen to Fight twice, it would go like this:

>zerkers declare charge from 12" away
>fail the roll
>can still be selected to Fight because they charged this turn, even though they aren't within 1"
>pile-in 3" closer
>still too far away to fight
>consolidate 3" closer
>selected to Fight a second time
>pile-in ANOTHER 3" closer
>still too far away to fight
>consolidate last 3", now within 1" of enemy unit, enemy unit counts as being in combat now and will need to Fall Back next turn to get out of combat

>> No.56278726

>>56278719
yeah seriously. I fucking want one NOW, and my codex has been out for how long?

>> No.56278734

>>56278661
Yes you can. You can consolidate into another unit in the fight phase. How is this different?

>> No.56278735

>>56278699
Oh you're a woman? Why didn't you say so? You could've just told me your opinion was invalid from the beginning so I didn't have to bother responding.
Shame on you for wasting my time.

>> No.56278738

>>56278656
I get that. I think the real challenge is making the system able to represent hitting "nearby" units, like flamers not being able to target a Chimera while leaving the troops in front unscathed.

And if fights still happen even with coherency reduction and without scatter...well, there's just no reasoning with people, no? I guess it's one of those things that requires some basic etiquette to sort out...of course, the same issue still happens in 8th with Orbital Bombardments/Linebreakers/etc. "Uh, the two squads are 6.1" away from each other..."

>> No.56278741

>>56278681
can you quote the part where it says
>the unit still charged however, it just didn't succeed
Grammatically, if I choose to leave my house, but I don't make it out my door, I didn't leave my house

>> No.56278742

>>56278699
Women can certainly engage in risky behavior that makes them more likely to be assaulted. Especially if you're the kind that thinks drunk sex is inherently rape.

>> No.56278752

>>56278711
Read the rules and refute me. But RAW you can pile in on a failed charge.

>> No.56278754

>>56278691
>>56278712
You still need to go through the wounds and the saves. Not even mortal wounds.

If you have to roll to cast as well no one would use it. Shuriken catapults have a better payoff than that.

>> No.56278760

>>56278726
May this is just GW testing our loyalty to our loving Grandfather? After all, what exults him more than seven-thousand desperate neckbeard moans for a critical model?

>> No.56278763

>>56278712
>>56278691
I'll be honest i skipped the nightmare of 6th and 7th, so i don't know how to properly translate spells that all automatically passed in past editions.

>> No.56278766

>>56278699
Wut

>> No.56278768

>>56278724
But you can't select them to fight a second time in that case, because then they wouldn't have charged (the first time you selected them they charged) and they don't have anyone within 1"

>> No.56278779

>>56278699
>Insulting king nigger himself
Begone thot

>> No.56278785

Relevant pages and rules for you faggots incapable of opening their rulebook.

>> No.56278787

>>56278768
They still count as charging the second time you select them to fight.

>> No.56278793

>>56278723
Yes this would be quite easily fixed with "any unit within 12" of an enemy model can attempt to charge". That way it would be clear a "charging unit" is one that not only attempted but succeeded. As that isn't the case it would seem just selecting a unit to charge counts as charging. I want to see a nid player just tar and slaughter the board with this to see if GW thinks this is a good design decision.

>> No.56278800

>>56278779
Hah what a fucking nigger.

>> No.56278803

>>56278741
The problem is there are several instances of rules text that refer to a unit that "successfully charged". Therefore it's implied that RAW a unit which failed a charge roll is still a unit that "charged", just not one which "successfully charged".

By RAW that means anything that fails a charge roll can pile-in and consolidate, until FAQ'd otherwise. But again, despite this being anecdotal evidence, one anon has claimed that the designer's in a stream addressed this and said it is also RAI, because they thought that units failing charges from just over 3" away by rolling snake eyes felt stupid.

If this is the case, it might not be an oversight - the oversight might just be that they didn't take this ruling into account specifically with regards to how it interacts with Berzerkers and Hormagaunts, units that can pile-in further than normal.

>> No.56278804

>>56278793
>As that isn't the case it would seem just selecting a unit to charge counts as charging.
You didn't address my point. It lays out what "charging" is, aka making a charge move. Which you don't do if you fail the charge

>> No.56278805

>>56278787
Well fuck me, you're right

>> No.56278808

>>56278735
Too obvious and too boring. Try again.
>>56278742
That's true, it is risky behavior hanging out with your friends at a bar, you should know better, men hang out there!
>>56278779
Lazy, as usual.

>> No.56278816

>>56278768
They still count as having charged that turn they second time, this was even addressed in an FAQ stating they get the bonus attacks from World Eaters Legion trait both times and get the hit-first bonus from charging both times.

>> No.56278822

>>56278793
It's not that great for anything in Nids besides Hormies since they pile in and consolidate 12"

>> No.56278830

>>56278803
What? You can't unsuccessfully charge. You just didn't charge. This is how the english language works.

>> No.56278833

>>56278822
>since they pile in and consolidate 12"
Well, 6" each, 12" total.

Before anyone reads that wrong and freaks out.

>> No.56278839

>>56278816
Yep, I thought the whole charging thing was different, got a bit confused

>> No.56278840

>>56277656
>heretics carrying around daemon swords
WRONG

WRONG

RONG

>> No.56278849

>>56278830
If that were the case then there would be no need for certain rules to say "if this unit successfully charged", they would just say "if this unit charged".

This requires a core rulebook FAQ and possibly an errata on a couple units or the core rules themselves.

>> No.56278850

>>56278804
>After any Overwatch has been resolved, roll 2D6. Each model in the charging unit can move up to this number of inches – this is their charge distance this turn. The first model you move must finish within 1" of an enemy model from one of the target units. No models in the charging unit can move within 1" of an enemy unit that was not a target of its charge. If this is impossible, the charge fails and no models in the charging unit move this phase.

At all times the selected unit is called the "charging unit", even at the end where the unit has failed the charge - they simply do not move, but are still the "charging unit".

>> No.56278854

>>56278803
If you need a 3 inch charge and you pile in 3 inches, you're still not within 1 inch though.

>> No.56278858

>>56278840
Crowe

>> No.56278870

>>56278822
HOLY SHIT you could just lock anything into fighting your nids.

>> No.56278871

>>56278830
I literally posted the page here >>56278785

Show me where it says a charging unit did not charge because it failed to reach its target.

>> No.56278880

>>56278854
If you need a 3" charge then a pile-in would bring you within 1".

If it wouldn't then you needed a 4" charge to begin with, which would mean you were at least 5" away.

>> No.56278883

>>56278849
If the english language were the case? You're committing a fallacy by assuming that lacking "successfully" means that it wasn't implicit in the other cases
>>56278850
They are a unit in the process of attempting to charge. That doesn't necessarily mean that they ever eventually charged.

>>56278871
see >>56278723
The definition of charge is presented, and thus one that doesn't make a charge move didn't ultimately charge

>> No.56278885

>>56278785
>After any Overwatch has been resolved, roll 2D6. Each model in the charging unit can move up to this number of inches – this is their charge distance this turn. The first model you move must finish within 1" of an enemy model from one of the target units. No models in the charging unit can move within 1" of an enemy unit that was not a target of its charge. If this is impossible, the charge fails and no models in the charging unit move this phase.
> If this is impossible, the charge fails and no models in the charging unit move this phase.
>no models in the charging unit move this phase.
I think we're done here.

>> No.56278889

>>56278870
As a Tyranid player I fully expect this to get FAQ'd, but RAW it seems to be legit.

>> No.56278890

>>56278808
This is just really bad b8 anon
Rework your wording, post when more Americans are on, and try not to be so obvious
It's got potential but needs work

>> No.56278892

Do you need to maintain unit 1 inch consistency in a fight?

>> No.56278898

>>56278885
the pile in and consolidate are in the next phase. the issue is with what is considered having charged. I'm positing that they define it as making a charge move.

>> No.56278901

>>56278885
Well it says no models may move this phase. As in at all. So no pile-in, no consolidate. Glad we cleared that up.

>> No.56278906

>>56278892
You have to maintain coherency any time you move.

>> No.56278913

Remember when summon after disembarking guy was master b8'ing and he dodged around people literally posting pictures of the rules and you guys still responded to him until he finally admitted it was all just to see how angry he could get everyone?
I remember that, weird how I thought about it right now

>> No.56278916

>>56278883
>They are a unit in the process of attempting to charge. That doesn't necessarily mean that they ever eventually charged

They are in the process of attempting a "charge move", this is not the same as "charging". This may not be precisely how words work but you have to think in terms of key terms and not literal interpretations otherwise you could interpret anything you wanted with liberal enough use of synonyms.

>> No.56278918

>>56278854
That would be the case if you were more than 3 inches away, aka 3.01 inch away which would have to be the case with rules similar to deep strike

>> No.56278922

>>56278901
Charge Phase and Fight Phase are different phases.

>> No.56278923

>>56278906
So movement phase or anytime you move

>> No.56278928

>>56278883
The english languages strictest definitions aren't what's applicable here, as has been repeatedly stated by the designers/playtesters in every discussion about RAW arguments. No interpretation of RAW that required someone to bust out a dictionary ever EVER turned out to be the correct one.

You are the one committing a fallacy by assuming that anything lacking "successfully" has it implicitly. That's not how rules language works. By certain rules being worded with "successfully charged", that creates a distinction between that wording, and "charged".

>> No.56278930

>>56278923
Any sort of move.

>> No.56278936

Dubs picks my contemptors chapter
Hard mode: no founding legions

>> No.56278938

This would be easy to understand if they didn't translate from English to american.

>> No.56278943

>>56278916
Making a charge move is the only possible definition in the first paragraph. Why would you assume it just means "took part in this phase"
>>56278928
Could you provide some examples of "unsuccessfully completing" an action?

>> No.56278944

>>56278928
Sure, but without busting out a dictionary I think we can agree if something hasn't moved it hasn't charged.

>> No.56278945

>>56278901
>So no pile-in, no consolidate.
Those occur in the Fight phase, so are unaffected by a failed charge roll.

Unless someone can prove that a unit which "charged" and which "successfully charged" are one and the same, and that units which failed to make their charge roll don't count as having charged, then they DO get to pile-in and consolidate.

>> No.56278953

>>56278898
Well you're wrong. Nothing in the rules support the idea that a unit that declared a charge did not charge.

>> No.56278963

>>56278943
>Could you provide some examples of "unsuccessfully completing" an action?
Failing a psychic test.
Failing a deny the witch test.

>> No.56278970

>>56278738
No i get that. Its a real pain, I mean i could see something along the lines of an additional rule that says units within so many inches of the main target unit generate an additional d3 or d6 shots to the adjacent unit. I know its slight rules bloat but i prefer it to blast templates.

>> No.56278972

>>56278913
Just that no one actually agreed with him and I stopped trying to reason when the rules were posted and he was disproved.

>>56278943
>Making a charge move is the only possible definition in the first paragraph. Why would you assume it just means "took part in this phase"
Because charging and attempting a charge move are not defined as the same thing and the fight phase trigger interacts with having charged, not with having made a charge move.

>> No.56278974

>>56278963
You didn't cast a spell then did you, that's why they refer to "attempting a psychic power" or "manifesting a psychic power"

>> No.56278976

>>56278936

Emperor's Sperm Whales

>> No.56278981

>>56278953
Where does this failed charge into consolidate even come into play? You roll under 6 and and your within 7 inches?

>> No.56278982

>>56278936
Grey Knights

>> No.56278984

>>56278858
Crowe doesn’t use it though. He literally treats it like a regular sword, which is why it’s S:User AP-

>> No.56278987

>>56278936
Angry Marines

>> No.56278989

>>56278945
If it didn't move, it didn't charge. How can you charge without moving? Do you just look aggressively at the enemy?

>> No.56278993

>>56278972
>attempting a charge move
succeeding a charge move

>> No.56278995

>>56278936
Red Hunters

>> No.56278999

>>56278936
Big Black Chads

>> No.56279001

>>56278936
Big Black Dicks

>> No.56279005

>>56278936
Sons of the Phoenix

>> No.56279009

>>56278972
>interacts with having charged
not having attempted to make a charge move, or having been activated in the charge phase. there is no reason to believe that a unit that failed to make a charge move charged

>> No.56279010

>>56278936
my special snowflake homebrew chapter
or if not that then Auric Patricians

>> No.56279011

>>56278936
Marines Malevolent

>> No.56279016

>>56278936

Enjoy.

>> No.56279021

Daily reminder that inanimate objects can be elevated by fickle gods to daemon prince ascendancy.

>> No.56279022

>>56278984
still carries it round though

>> No.56279025

>>56278999

>> No.56279029

>>56278989
Yes. If thats how you want to interpret it. Or you could assume their pile in move in the fight phase is their failed attempt.

It makes less sense that a unit charging decides that it can't be arsed and just stands still for no reason while being shot at.

>> No.56279030

>>56279011
Fuck you man. You one the last time
im gonna have to pass

>> No.56279040

>>56278943
>Could you provide some examples of "unsuccessfully completing" an action?
A unit which shot in the shooting phase but failed to hit anything still shot.

A unit which charged in the charge phase but failed to make its charge roll still charged, until stated otherwise.

>> No.56279043

>>56278936
Sons of Guilliman

>> No.56279044

>>56279030
>One
Won*

>> No.56279049

>>56278936
Ultramarines

>> No.56279050

>>56279029
>Or you could assume their pile in move in the fight phase is their failed attempt.
You're really reaching here.

>> No.56279057

>>56278989
How can you get shot on overwatch if you didn't move? Perhaps the phases are an abstraction of what's really happening to make it a game and not real life.

>>56279009
How can you be "charging" and then not have "charged"? At all times the unit having been selected is referred to as "charging" and the past tense of that verb is "charged" whether the models moved or not. See how semantics make both interpretations valid? This needs an FAQ.

>> No.56279060

>>56278999
Whats the shoulder look like?

>> No.56279064

New shit when?

What is GW even releasing this coming weekend?

>> No.56279074

>>56279064
Nid codex.

>> No.56279077

>>56279057
This.

I don't think anyone here is arguing this is how it DEFINITELY 100% works, but it definitely requires an FAQ to clarify one way or the other.

>> No.56279078

>>56279064

Bugs.

>> No.56279080

>>56279050
Not really. Like I said which makes more sense? That theh stand completly still or that the move a small distance

>> No.56279091

>>56278936
Tigers Argent

>> No.56279094

>>56279057
are you retarded? You make a charge roll.

Pass the roll succeed in charging.
Fail the roll fail in charging.
Get shot to bits by overwatch and remove models from the front such that you can no longer reach 1", you failed the charge.

This is basic stuff.

>> No.56279101 [SPOILER] 

>>56279064
sisters

>> No.56279104

>>56279057
Then why do I measure range for overwatch from the range the unit started at? Why not just roll to see how far they'll go so I can measure from that distance and shoot with my entire unit instead of just those in range at the outset?

>> No.56279110

>>56279078
>>56279074
>roacharoni's
gay

>> No.56279111

>>56279060

>> No.56279113

I cant believe the craftworlds Army and the necron Army boxes both sold out. They dont even give you a discount for buying in bulk

>> No.56279122

>>56279040
He's got you there

>> No.56279129

>>56279077
The reason the whole argument came up in the first place was because people were discussing whether or not Jormungandr nids get cover saves versus Overwatch.

If the interpretation is that a unit which hasn't made a successful charge roll doesn't count as having charged, then they wouldn't lose their cover bonus until after Overwatch resolves.

On the other hand, if a unit that DECLARES a charge counts as charging, then Hormagaunts can pile-in and consolidate even against an enemy they failed the charge roll for, guaranteeing they make it into combat.

Tyranids are going to benefit from this FAQ ruling either way.

>> No.56279130

>>56279111
>big black chad
Isn't that the outline of idaho though?

>> No.56279132

>>56279110
Blood angels Follow the bugs. Stay Strong for the Emperor brother.

>> No.56279138

>>56279111
Fuck

>> No.56279140

>>56279094
>>56279104
But if I failed the roll I didn't charge therefore you can't overwatch me?
I'm just making a semantic argument lads, don't respond seriously

>> No.56279153

>>56279130

>> No.56279154

>>56279130
It's literally a map of Chad that I just colored black.

>> No.56279155

>>56278343
foot of gork

10

d3 mortals. On a 4+, cause d3 more. repeat until a 1-3 is rolled

>> No.56279160

>>56279140
overwatch occurs before rolling to see if the charge succeeded.

>> No.56279162

Holy fuck are you guys still arguing about charging?

well STFU and read about tyranid warriors.

>> No.56279163

>>56279110
>roacharoni's

>> No.56279186

>>56279113
From where?
Gw?
People buy from there?

>> No.56279192

>>56279030
>>56279044
I’m not even that anon though
I won fair and square

>> No.56279194

>>56279186
I do to support my GW store that I play at.

>> No.56279202

>>56279155
>10

To succeed cast?
Shieet

>> No.56279207

>>56279162
May as well post tyranid prime

>> No.56279209

>>56278699
right out of left field, go home to non-sequitur town.

>> No.56279216

>>56279162
So, boneswords and deathspitters is the most cost-effective against every target except T8/3+ where rending claws become ever so slightly better, and barbed strangler is better than venom cannon against every possible target? Am I reading that correctly?

>> No.56279219

>>56279153
This meme has reached its peak.

>> No.56279220

Where to get mountains of Hormagaunts cheap?

>> No.56279223

>>56279220
Ebay

>> No.56279224

>>56279132
If they don't get some rules that make them better at jump-pack deepstriking in than the other marine flavors I'm going to fucking riot. It's going to be like a second horus heresy up in this shit.

Also it's pretty much confirmed that either Mephiston, or The Sanguinor is going to be the "primarch tier" unit they get right? I mean who else could it be, Mephiston already has daemon prince stats in a man's body.

>> No.56279228

>>56279162
It's been pretty civil as far as rules arguments on /tg/ go, so I give them props for that.

>> No.56279230

>>56279030
Hey man, you said dubs would get it and that anon got MM for your dudes.

>> No.56279241

>>56279216

Yes, but range/special rules aren't considered for mathhammer.

>> No.56279244

>>56279220
You don't want too many of them, since Genestealers are better for literally everything except locking down units to stop them shooting.

One hormagaunt blob, 2 at the absolute max. Take Stealers as the rest of your melee Troops.

>> No.56279246

>>56279224
>It's going to be like a second horus heresy up in this shit.
>implying this literally isnt going to happen because of Primaris marines and Guilliman once the other Primarchs return

>> No.56279256

>>56279216
Yes, but i hav to rerun venom cannons now that they have ap-2

>> No.56279260

>>56279224
>your face when the BA were able to recover Sanguinus's body and kept it in stasis, while his soul has left it The Sanguinor has possessed it and filled the once dead primarch with insatiable vigor.

>> No.56279267

>>56279192
I am truly sorry anon.
This will displease kek.

>> No.56279273

>>56279256
Oh I didn't realize those were old stats. That changes things a lot, new VCs also went from Damage 1 to Damage D3

>> No.56279281

>>56279207

You are doing great work anon.
Do you have a sheet for the Tyrant?

>> No.56279289

>>56279224
>The Sanguinor is going to be the "primarch tier" unit they get right?
Didn't the sanguinor show up in Ruinstorm recently and pin something in place with Sanguinius's Weapon. Imagine if he showed up with that weapon as our primarch tier unit. And yes i know its bullshit fluff but ill take what i can get okay? I dont care about how that was in the past and this is in the present. They literally had a plot where an apothecary was placed into his sarcophagi to recover during Signus Prime and he talked to a marine in the current era through a psychic link. So if that can happen anything can.

>> No.56279293

Anyone got their hands on a November White Dwarf pdf yet? Keen to read some Necromunda details.

>> No.56279296

>>56279267
>tfw suggest marines malevolent because i like the idea of a chapter of dirtbags who fit in the setting
Is that so hard? To make someone else paint yellow because 2poor4gw?

>> No.56279298

>>56279224
Calling it now: Cawl uses his primaris tech shenanigans allowing Dante/The Sanguinor to possess Sanguinus's body and it will awake from the golden sarcophagus ready to kick ass.

>> No.56279315

>>56279298
Calling it now: you'll getting nothing and like it

>> No.56279322

>>56279162
>>56279256
>>56279273

Fixed Venom Cannons

>> No.56279329

>>56279315
bullshit I'll like it. If we don't get a big model release for BA I'm buying Guiltygearmam, attaching wings, painting him red, and painting his unmasked face gold like a deathmask fuck GW.

>> No.56279336

>>56279281

>> No.56279355

>>56279322
Thanks. This looks much better.

>> No.56279356

>>56279281
>>56279336

here's ranged

>> No.56279358

>>56279315
You say this every time someone brings up the Blood Angel release. Get some new fucking taunts.

>> No.56279380

>>56279329
You should do that anyway. Sounds dope.

>> No.56279385

>>56279336
>>56279356

Stellar job dude.

>> No.56279392

>>56279315
Why do people hate BA again?
Why do people like BA again?

>> No.56279398

>>56279296
I dont like to double up on chapters. Especially when my watch captain is already MM ill let hom choose another if he wants.

>> No.56279405

After running all these tyranid numbers i realized that hormagaunts have no HQ choice.

I think it'd be neat for a 125pt super hormagaunt that gives hormagaunt units within 6" the ability to run and charge.

>> No.56279408

>>56279405
no

>> No.56279415

>>56279408
ah come on, it can't get any more ridiculous than a broodlord.

>> No.56279418

>>56279392
I legitimatly forget they exist sometimes.

>> No.56279424

>>56279329
Yeah, everyone knows the best way to voice displeasure with a company is to give them money.

>> No.56279428

>>56279392
I like them because of the whole Muh Sacrifice for you sins of our primarch and the whole Muh noble but with dark secret underneath of the marines. I also just love Vampires and Blood in General so.

>> No.56279432

>>56279405
Or instead of GW doing this dumb thing of making our Troops need a special specific HQ type to buff them, they could just buff all our troops back up to where they're supposed to be normally.

>> No.56279433

>>56279380
Gullymarm really is a nice model, I've got to GW props for that.

>> No.56279442

>>56279392
>Why do people hate BA again?
Because if they aren't Codex: Space Marines but better, then they whine incessantly about how worthless they are. Some of their wishlisting about what they should get in their codex has been absurd.

>> No.56279443

>>56279356
Well good to know my 2 Flyrants will be continue to be useful. Thanks for putting in all the legwork to make these graphs, anon.

>> No.56279446

>>56279433
except for the non-helmet head.

>> No.56279447

>>56279398
>Someone saved my OC edit
Is this happiness?

>> No.56279448

>>56279405
It's already super fucking weird that they're slower than Genestealers.

>> No.56279450

>>56279392
They're khorne marines but loyalist and still red.

>> No.56279451

>>56279405
>What is the Onslaught power

>> No.56279460

>>56279442
what's the most absurd thing that actually got some traction with people?

>> No.56279466

>>56279451
Really fucking bad because you have to Advance before you can cast it, meaning if you fail the cast you just lost the ability to charge.

Unlike everyone else's speedy power (Warp Time/Quicken/Path) which just gives them an additional move in the Psychic phase.

>> No.56279469

>>56279398
4u ill go extra hard and make you do Celebrants
:^)

Have fun

just kidding you can do crimson fists if Celebrants are too hard

>> No.56279472

>>56279450
is that in the like column or the hate column...?

>> No.56279480

>>56279432
Troops are actually pretty great for tyranids as is.

>>56279451
Can only use it on 1 unit a turn :( i want my 120 strong hormagaunt horde to go fast.

>> No.56279482

>>56279442
>Some of their wishlisting about what they should get in their codex has been absurd.
I mean i literally only saw one guy who made a ridiculous Primarch Sanguinor and then some people here and there wanting the blood angels to be better in assault and having some alpha striking potential.

>> No.56279487

>>56279466
Why would you not advance your hormies every phase? Their sole purpose is to get across the board ASAP

>> No.56279493

>>56279472

>> No.56279495

>>56279487
to charge

>> No.56279502

>>56279482
I'm ok with that as long as they make other stuff more expensive.

Like predators, devastators, etc, the ranged kits become more expensive in points and it will balance out.

>> No.56279503

>>56279495
I feel like this is a circular argument.

>> No.56279506

>>56279446
This.

Helmet makes everything better.

>> No.56279517

>>56279503
Well you would want to run every phase except the one you want to charge. Because hormagaunts lost fleet and can't charge the turn they ran.

>> No.56279519

>>56279503
If you try to circle around you'll take forever, just move them in a straight line directly towards whatever it is you want to charge.

This isn't WFB, there's no real bonus to flanking charges.

>> No.56279520

>>56279516
>>56279516
>>56279516
>>56279516
>>56279516

>> No.56279526

>>56279224
I know fellow son of baal. I don't need to be the OP waac flavor of the month. But damnit I want to be the blitzkrieg army we are born to be

Blood Angels Chapter bonuses
>Units that arrive via jump pack assault may move an additional d3 inches after landing but must love towards the closest enemy unit

>Units that arrive via jump pack assault may add 1 (Maybe 2?) Inches to any charge roll I. The subsequent charge phase

>Blood Angels tactical squads may take jump packs (unlikely) barring that we get assault marines as troops

I think those are fair and fluffy bonuses that aren't "LOL I'M DEH BESTEST LEGION WE AHOUKD GET -10000 TO HIT AND AUTO WOUMD HURR" tier

>> No.56279535

Can fly units charge after leaving fights?

>> No.56279539

>>56279207
Christ this guy has some shit numbers

>> No.56279541

>>56279502
>Like predators, devastators, etc, the ranged kits become more expensive in points and it will balance out.
Id personally be fine with this. Blood Angels aren't known for their shooting and or tanks other than the fact that the tanks go fast and we decided to put a giant flamer on the top of our predator.

>> No.56279545

>>56279535
No, they can still shoot though.

>> No.56279551

>>56279519

>> No.56279552

>>56279535
they totally can.

>> No.56279553

>>56279460
Not BA, but that DA "rumor" with the fire-twice banner and Jonson as Guiliman+1 got a fair number of people to buy it.

>> No.56279564

lets make it to 1000 posts before this thread falls off the board

>> No.56279567

>>56279451
Not particularly reliable? It would be better if they just had a built-in rule saying they can move/advance and still charge in the same turn to really haul ass. As it stands, I can order a guard infantry squad with Move!Move!Move! after moving+advancing and get anywhere between 12-24' in a single turn. Hormagaunts are kinda slow in comparison and they really shouldn't be.

>> No.56279575

>>56279539
Yea, after i'm done running the raw numbers, i'll factor in when he is worth his points when brought with X tyranid warriors.

>> No.56279586

>>56279541
BA are known for Baal predators so they probably have better tanks that can also SUA 9" over codex marines.

>> No.56279623

>>56279575
Yeah, he has a +1 to hit aura that works in melee and shooting. +1 is better than rr1s in almost every scenario (that being you're already BS2+ and aren't shooting at penalty).

Check how many warriors you need to have alive to make it worth it to take him over more warriors.

>> No.56279795

Well, that's odd, I can't seem to find Tyranid Ripper Swarms on GW's site anymore, I thought they sold them. Guess only option anymore is FW's massive pile of rippers.

>> No.56279798

>>56279469
>Celebrants
I will do it. This is my penance.

>> No.56279834

>>56279795
They show up on the aus/nz store.

>> No.56279876

Okay, so got my bitz in today, about and smashed together my idea of a custom Red Terror, uncertain if I want to fully trim the spines on the jaw, and if I want to put the spines I trimmed onto the back as well. But, I like it. When I base it though I am going to have to weight it, that mawloc head is heavy, filled with greenstuff to mate it with a warrior head and the jaws.

>>56279834
Strange, I don't see it in the USA at all when looking through all of the store, searching for ripper, or swarm separately.

>> No.56279901

>>56279798
Should I just go with red background or do the whole red fading to orange down the dreads shoulder pad?

>>
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