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[ERROR] No.56003265 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Guard Nerf edition.

Previous >>56000020

>Warhammer Community news(New FAQs and Errata for the Astra Militarum and beyond)

>Daily Duncan Playlist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnS1CmgB7ko&list=PLEaPE4sLDA7ucJ0dkiVZSW6ghZUNGFHIW [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]

>Eldar entire codex revealed by Striking Scorpion 1488
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ne8vBVT8N0 [Embed]

>GW FAQ (1.1):

>FW FAQ (1.1):

>Rules and such. Use Readium on pc/iphone, lithium/kobo on android:
>Everything 8th edition in properly converted pdf & epub, fully bookmarked and linked with in-line errata annotations

>Other Megas
>Old Black Library Mega

>WIP Math-hammer doc (Thanks Chart-Anon!)

>> No.56003295

*sobs into pile of empty bottles*
*BLAMs self*

>> No.56003296

First for the first!

>> No.56003298

So what's up with Primaris Marine Gene-Seed? Cawl claims their gene-seed is more genetically pure, stable, and without the defects or mutations of their predecessors. Is that true? Can I finally make a Loyalist Chapter from a Primarch that isn't Rob, Khan, Ferrus or from the traitorous Lion?

>> No.56003299

>like a load of factions equally
>can't choose which
>endlessly trapped in indecision

>> No.56003302

Which doctrine would work best to emulate the krieg infantry?

>> No.56003304

Xth for Guardfags eternally BTFO

>> No.56003310

NO, my company champion WILL be useful one day. I just have to keep using it.

>> No.56003337

Start cutting based on things you want/don't want.

One of the easiest is moving a long the "do I want tons of models or an elite few" line.

>> No.56003339

Anyone else disappointed with DG 'tankiness', vs assault cannons and shuriken cannons, you get shredded.

Not really worth the extra points cost.

>> No.56003349

‘Summary Execution: The first time an Astra Militarum unit fails a Morale test during the Morale phase whilst it is within 6" of any friendly Commissars, one model of your choice in that unit is slain and the Morale test is re-rolled (do not include this slain model when re-rolling the Morale test).’

>> No.56003351

>commissars are fine in combination with some units. Broken in combination with others
>common reasonable suggestions were just increasing the number of models killed by a failed morale test from 1 to d6
>GW ignores those, and changes the commissar so it's actually straight up worse to have one than not have one.
>seriously: having a commissar in your army will cause more model losses per morale test than not now.


>> No.56003355

Git lucky

>> No.56003362

Shoot or stab?
Hordes or elites?
Men or vehicles?

>> No.56003365

Which factions do you like?

>> No.56003378

>>GW ignores those, and changes the commissar so it's actually straight up worse to have one than not have one.
>>seriously: having a commissar in your army will cause more model losses per morale test than not now.
>ignoring that they buff the Leadership of units around them to 9
>ignoring that this ability has the chance to make you pass a morale test if you weren't auto-failing
>ignoring that conscripts were the most busted unit in the game until now

>> No.56003383

What makes you think Eldar won't be beat with the nerf stick if they are OP too?

>> No.56003390


Wow it's almost like infantry-heavy armies are vulnerable to miniguns...

>> No.56003391

>IG unit fails morale test and they turn tail and run.
>commissar shoots them as they flee.
>fails morale test again and they keep running. As the deamons/xenos chase them down as they overrun their position.

As much as this hurts my army. That is hilariously dark and can't be angry about it.

>> No.56003400

Sure, go ahead. We won't stop you?

Maybe the Death Korps of Krieg?

>> No.56003402

More models per failed morale test, but if you can avoid failing at the cost of 1, what are the odds that you'll not fail?

>> No.56003409


I want a moderate to low model count. So no orks, nids or guard. Ideally men over vehicles, I like footslogging. Not much between shoot or stab, maybe leaning toward stab, but I know combat is garbage now.

>> No.56003414

That is also fucking as it should be. A shouty man with a gun is not scarier than literal daemons.

>> No.56003417

Combat is not garbage, it's better than it's been for the past couple editions.

>> No.56003422

Will the Waacfags go to Girlyman lists?


>> No.56003425

Hemlock Wraithfighter tho.
Cannot be charged by non <FLY> units
Using Altaioc tactics and runes of fate, it can make itself -3 to hit.
Ignores wounds and mortal wounds on a 6+
Reduces enemy leadership
Can deny
Can Cross the board in a single turn
S10 gun

Why ever take another unit?

>> No.56003430

>GW ignores those, and changes the commissar so it's actually straight up worse to have one than not have one.
But anon math is subjective.

>> No.56003433

>but I know combat is garbage now.
It's the best it's been in two or three editions.

What do you think of Space Marines? Just as a whole?

>> No.56003434

Melee isn't garbage, Anon.

>> No.56003446

Lychguard vs Praetorian.

I mean, the warscythe and having the dynasty rule is great, especially when the movement isnt as important with the whole Zandrake/Obryon trick.

But having a pistol is good, since you get to shoot in melee now, right? Is this worth loosing the dynasty rule?

>> No.56003453

>300 Conscripts

Because you need ground units to be legal. Plus they will get nerfed.

>> No.56003460

>moderate unit count
>mix of ranged and melee

Nigga that's Death Guard. Get that. You're strongest at the sub 18" range and do tons of mortal wounds in the sub 7" one.

>> No.56003463

how is the new rules? is 40k similar to aos gameplay now? should I get the eldar start collecting box? I would like to play some small games like 1k max. and eldar is my fav faction.

>> No.56003470


If I was gonna play Space Marines, I'd want to do Primaris only. Except I know they're hammered shit, and especially since I don't want a repulsor.


I keep hearing that it is, that you'll just get shot to shit while you're trying to cross the board.

>> No.56003476


Melee Admech, emphasis on Dragoon squads and Electros and such. Got some decent dakka in there too, gorgeous models and all the kitbash room you could ask for.

>> No.56003481


>low model count

The god of war demands skulls anon, you'd better not disappoint him.

>> No.56003483

>Using Altaioc tactics and runes of fate, it can make itself -3 to hit
It can't cast Conceal, bruv, and the power doesn't work the same anymore anyways.

>> No.56003496


Death Guard seem cool, but aren't they overplayed as fuck? Like, being half of the starter suggests they're the new Everyone Has An Army Of These Guys.

>> No.56003504

as others have said, melee is good now.
Necrons are your typical resilient footslogging army.
Demons are mainly stab and don't have vehicles. Rely on deep strike and running
Deathguard is also a CSM faction that's footslogging and super resilient
World Eaters are the stabby version of CSM

>> No.56003509

How does it feel to know that psykers are superior to commissars?

>> No.56003516

You only get to shoot in melee during your own shooting phase, so pistols are more defensive. Since as it is

>Fight in your own fight phase, take some damage from enemy
>Enemy's turn
>Enemy shoots you point blank with pistols
>Take damage from enemy
>Fight back
>Your turn
>Shoot with pistols, finally
>Fight in melee

Pistols are only good if you're on the defensive or plan on being stuck in combat for an entire game turn.

There are lots of ways to reach melee effectively these days. Transports, teleporting, etc can get you there on turn 2, maybe turn 1 if you're lucky.

All that means is that you can assemble an army for cheap as shit from people who bought the boxes for the Imperial side.

>> No.56003526


>what are rhinos
>what are drop pods
>what are jump packs
>what is teleport
>what are raven guard/alpha legion infiltrator stratagems

>> No.56003528


You want to play what you like or what makes you the biggest hipster?

>> No.56003529


I actually really like World Eaters but the Berzerker models are hideous compared to basically everything else. Plus I'm never sure about CSM because as much as I love their fluff and the idea of them, all the extra stuff (dinobots etc) I really don't like.

>> No.56003530


a knowledge of history

>> No.56003535

I can not settle on a 40k army, Anons. My girlfriend has nearly 2k points of Death Guard and I can't choose what to play.

I want something choppy, zergish and assault-based, preferably Imperium. How are Space Wolves/ Blood Angels these days?

>> No.56003538

Sudden death rules.
-3 is a psychic power that currently affects caster and infantry around it so only works on one model assuming it doesn't fail to cast
In the new book it's rumored that conceal is now a targeted spell so won't even work on hemlock
also rumored that hemlocks can only even cast the debuff half of runes of battle now.
Hemlock doesn't have bonus to cast so against any other big(200+ pts) meta relevant caster (ie magnus) it's not even getting that off.

>> No.56003546

Hmm. Maybe not as good as I thought. Stillb being able to dump some shots into the guys I'm about to charge in the shooting phase is nice.

>> No.56003548

Good, though of the two SW are the more zergish. BA can be tactical.

>> No.56003556

If I intend to play CSM, can I field an army of multiple legions?
Like can I have Death Guard and Iron Warriors? Are there any restrictions i need to follow in order to do so?

>> No.56003558

Who needs a commissar?

>> No.56003561

>Stillb being able to dump some shots into the guys I'm about to charge in the shooting phase is nice.
>shoot before charging
>Opponent removes closest models
>1-2" added to required charge distance

>> No.56003572

>gnoring that this ability has the chance to make you pass a morale test if you weren't auto-failing

I'm not ignoring this, you're misunderstanding how the math works.

The average roll of 1d6 is 3.5. The average roll of 2d6 taking the lowest but adding 1 is 3.53. I don't know exactly what the average roll of 1d6 then reroll if failed is, but I know that it is going to be higher than 2d6 take lowest, because there's no filtering choice element. Which means that taking the commissar increases your morale casualties.

The only argument that I think is an effective counter is the increased leadership. So a commissar will save about 4 models from the increased leadership. From a conscript blob (leadership 4 to 8). Take out the one they're going to lose for sure, and you've got a net gain of 3 models saved. But that isn't really the point.

Previously commissars were saving entire units with the summary execution ability. Outside of conscripts, this was fine and balanced. Infantry squads were good. Ogryns were good. The ability went from broken on conscripts and good on everything else, to actually worse than not having it at all on everything.

Which is such a huge over correction that it makes me worried for what's going to happen with my army's codex and faq.

>> No.56003573

*Throws 36+6d6 bolter shots at your infantry*

>> No.56003580

You can have them as separate Detachments in the army. Or you can just do "chaos soup" and take whatever you like from all the varieties of CSM, plus Daemons. There are bonuses for doing pure detachments of one legion though, but it's fine to take two detachments in an army.

>> No.56003587

>eldar get the old summary execution factionwide

>> No.56003591

>literal mind control is better at making others not run away than being mean to them

Gee, who would've guessed.

>> No.56003597

Hey I've been sticking female heads on my guardsmen and I want them to have helmets, it's been going okay but I've run into the problem of not having enough helmets per box to get a good 50/50 ratio, I would normally just accept a 5/2 ratio but they are cadians, everyone is a solder so... but I digress. Is there a way to cut the helmets of my extra male heads? I've tried my pliers and even a box cutter but no luck.

>> No.56003598

Well, lychguard it is! Warscythes for fun and profit

Are the Judicator Battalion's preatorians only the Praetorian bits?

>> No.56003601

If you want to use some of DG's special units(Basically anything besides Plague Marines) then they need to be in a separate detachment.

>> No.56003606

Eldar don't have cheap 30 man hordes, retard.

>> No.56003608

>seeing jimmy get shot by Your Friend, the Regimental Commissar doesnt fill you with as much stalwart heroism and bravery as a psyker reaching into your soul and shoving the heart of a lion and the will of the emperor directly into you

who would have fucking guessed

>> No.56003615 [SPOILER] 

I actually use Chosen.

>> No.56003629

A while back, about two weeks, we banned guard from our store.

The local waacfag switched to eldar.

how the fuck did he know?

>> No.56003633

How? AL?

>> No.56003636

>WAAC fags btfo

I hated being associated with them.

>> No.56003639

exactly which makes it even worse as the points impact for one extra of their models running away is about the same as 10 conscripts running away
thanks for backing me up on this one bruh

>> No.56003643


>> No.56003648


Because Eldar are always going to be good as long as Phil 'BasedGod' Kelly works for GW?

>> No.56003652


Then be happy that they're migrating to other armies.

>> No.56003654


Loyalty is its own reward :^)

>> No.56003659

Being better still doesn't make something good.

>> No.56003662

>happy IG just became monobuild scions


>> No.56003666

It's like you don't understand why Conshits were cancerous.

>> No.56003670


You don't have to run dinobots to play CSM.

If you don't like the Berzerker models, you could buy the Mark III space marine models, and then get the bolt/plasma pistols and chainsword/chainaxe bitz for cheap from a bitz seller on ebay. World Eaters could still be using Mark III since they had a lot during the heresy era, and they aren't the type to care about technologically advancing their armor.

>> No.56003671

the only thing that gets my goat is losing the safety window of "your dudes dont die getting out of a Valkyrie if it moved exactly 20"

how dare they make my supersonic fighter jet slow down and VTOL so everyone can jump out safely

>> No.56003675

Yeah I'd rather my guard army be shifty desu. I can go back to drowning the enemy in my blood in peace.

>> No.56003678

kitbash form age of sigmar khorne models

>> No.56003693

Low model count tyranids

Genestealer slingshots are literally what you're after.

>> No.56003698

And how does that compare to what GW has been doing actively balancing shit since 8th started?

>> No.56003703


>> No.56003706

That was the gist of my post anon, use context clues.

>> No.56003707

Grey Knights, Anon. Grey Knights.

>> No.56003712

>things guardfags are BTFO
>Doesn't realize IG still has like 5 different ways to mitigate morale, they just have to work for it a bit more

You're also forgetting the fact that artillery weren't touched in the slightest. Guard is still pretty good, we just had some of our more bullshit stuff pulled in line with other codexes.

At least conscripts aren't autotake anymore, so maybe all the tourneyfags will stop taking random Imperial Army +Celestine + Guilleman + 120 conscripts = Because Fuck You and any fun you may have had.

>> No.56003714

the AL stratagem is REALLY useful for chosen, guaranteed first blood or even a vehicle kill

>> No.56003722

Did they just nerf your commissars, Anon? Did they?

>> No.56003725

Just remember anons if every army is nerfed into the ground then they are all balanced

>> No.56003728

They shoot twice per shooting phase when they remain stationnary, and they each have 6+1d6 shots to fire.

>> No.56003730

No, I play necrons. I'm still angry.

>> No.56003734

>Needing to make meta builds to win


*Scouts a baneblade*

>> No.56003743

Enjoy your boost in Chapter Approved, Anon.

>> No.56003744

>unironically liking dreadknights

Why do they insist upon adding terrible designs to things I like?

>> No.56003751

>end of 8th edition
>nerf train has continued relentlessly, pushing everything down
>end result is every army is the exact same mechanically.

Finally, """Balance"""

>> No.56003752


I want to avoid gimmick lists like that, because it leaves my army unusable after one bad FAQ.

>> No.56003753

I got my dreadnaught and made that the body with arms and legs. Looked dope.

>> No.56003762


>> No.56003765

Page 112 – Brood Brothers Change this rule to read: ‘The influence of a Genestealer Cult permeates all aspects of a society, including any Astra Militarum regiments stationed on their world. To represent the elements of such forces that have been subverted by a cult, you can include Astra Militarum units and Genestealer Cults units in the same matched play army, even though these units don’t have any Faction keywords in common. However, you can only include one Astra Militarum Detachment (one in which every unit has the Astra Militarum keyword) in a Battleforged army for each Genestealer Cult Detachment (one in which every unit has the Genestealer Cults keyword) in that army and every unit in the Astra Militarum Detachment that has the <Regiment> keyword must replace it in every instance on its datasheet with Brood Brothers (you cannot include any Astra Militarum named characters in such Detachments). In such cases, simply ignore the Astra Militarum units when choosing your army’s Faction.’

>> No.56003766



>> No.56003768

First turn can still give advantage, even in a perfect mirror (re: Chess).

>> No.56003775

>mfw the push for more female representation ends up turning 40k into a waifu game.

>> No.56003777

Its simple anon, Squat all Xenos and just make the game CSM vs Space Marines. Itll be perfect

>> No.56003778


>> No.56003780


>if they remain stationary

so if you're opponent puts a unit 18" or less away from them. Which he won't do after the first game

>> No.56003781

>maelstrom mission 5
>-4 to hit rangers
wew lad

>> No.56003787

>happy IG just became monobuild scions

You do not understand how guard works if you think that's the only powerful thing they have now.

>> No.56003789

>already plays Sororitas

my time has come

>> No.56003790

Three Imperial Knights, one armed with the Thermal Cannon, Meltagun and Powerfist to hunt down tanks, the second one with the Battlecannon and the Chainsword to deal with MEQs and a Castigator Knight to unload quite a lot of BRRRRRRRRRRRRTTTTT into hordes (14 shots at S6, Ap-2 and D2) and hunt down monsters and vehicles with his Warblade (4 attacks at S14, Ap-3, D5).
Add to that three squads of Death Korps infantry and a squad of Combat Engineers in a Centaur transport to deliver Acid Gas bombs an maybe Demolition Charges. And three Quad Launchers to shell the everloving shit out of any horde.

Yes or no?

>> No.56003791

>commisar makes guardsmen as fearless as marines are
>this still isn't enough for IGfags

>but muh more losses
No. The ONLY unit in the entire codex, the entire fucking codex, that can take more than 10 men are conscripts, who most definitely should be more affected by morale you fag. Go suck a big fat nigger cock you absolute fucking faggot

>> No.56003792

Astra Militarum army for sale unpainted on eBay already.
Yum yum guard tears

>> No.56003799

They fire twice with their grenade launchers too, anon.

>> No.56003804

Combined squad guardsmen

>> No.56003809

>faggots running from guard because they cant cheese and Insta win
>they sell all their stuff for dirt cheap eventually after months of highballing people

>> No.56003811

Not that anon, and not a guard player, but I'm glad they didn't gut the faction. As you said, just the bullshit. I'm pretty sure the only faction people want to see nerfed is Tau, because their reaction to the index was pure gold.

>> No.56003817

>I can't read: The Post

>> No.56003820

I was wondering about this with marines too. If I use hellfire shells and then use my ammo cherub, do I get to fire hellfire shells twice? Factoring in captain rerolls and the signum, that's 2D3 mortal wounds on any target within range for a 10pt heavy bolter.

>> No.56003829

Me too, Anon. Ahead of the curve.

>> No.56003831

I want to build a small (1000pts) GS army - that's my current list I made to plan my future purchases.

Patrol Detachment (Tyranids) [58 PL, 999pts]
Broodlord: Power: Catalyst
Broodlord: Power: The Horror

2x 19 Genestealer (Rending Claws)

Heavy Support
Trygon Prime: Adrenal Glands, Bio-electric Pulse with Containment Spines, Biostatic Rattle, 3x Massive Scything Talons

I feel like I can change a few things but I'm not sure if these are good ideas
- I can drop the second Broodlord for 13 more genestealers and run 3 units of 18, 17 and 17 GSs or
- I can keep two Broodlords and split these two units I already have into 13, 12, 12 to fulfill battalion detachment requirements or
- I can drop the second Broodlord to run 2x 20-GS units and buy two boxes of Termagants for a 24-bugs unit (12 with devourers and 12 with fleshborers)
Will any of these do the trick or should I stick with the current list?

>> No.56003838


>> No.56003840

>and of course I'm fucking poor right now

Daddy needs himself a new tank company dammit, why did the nerf have to happen now?

>> No.56003848


not really. that guy is just going to buy an eldar army now. then sell that when the next best book comes out and buy that.

This is why GW does this shit. They know tournament rats will drop $5k per edition chasing the cheese.

>> No.56003849

Are the result of a stratagem, they are not a unit unto themselves. And that's the price you pay for combing: buffs become more effective, but morale does as well. Their is absolutely nothing wrong with that

>> No.56003850

Do you want to buy riptide? Like 4 or 6Riptides?

>> No.56003851

That base is disgusting. I love it.

>> No.56003859



>> No.56003862

I'm eager to start Blood Angels, but have no idea where to start. Should I buy a shit load of Assault Squads and just go from there? And do BA's have any restriction when it comes to taking units? (Since they don't have their own Codex anymore.)

>> No.56003865

He's not really losing anything though. He's going to make most of his costs back by reselling the cheese to delusional laacfags who let tournament metas control their lists just as much as the waacfags.

>> No.56003866

>playing tau


I would sooner be a filthy traitor than an alien.

>> No.56003867

>people say diversity is bad for 40k

Currently reading Talon of Horus and so far, there are tons of powerful and awesome women and people of colour.

>The Anamnesis

Even Khayon is described as being 'dusky'.

Much better than the 100th shitty Gaunts Ghosts book.

>> No.56003873

>The average roll of 2d6 taking the lowest but adding 1 is 3.53.
You don't even do this. And no, you are ignoring what I said, because if you pass the fucking test, you don't lose any models. You're only showing the math for what happens when you autofail - yes, having the Commissar is not worse than not, in that specific case, to an infinitesimally irrelevant degree.

>> No.56003876

Delet this right now

>> No.56003882

You'd need to guarantee that you go first though. I've used Arkos a few times and it's kinda hard to place him, especially if you go last.

>> No.56003884

a couple of much needed nerfs does not make the army monobuild you fucking fag

>> No.56003885


>Make unit laughably overpowered
>nerf it into oblivion so it's completely useless
>come out with army that has the exact same stuff, unnerfed

nice balance you got there

>> No.56003891

Because we knew the Eldar Codex was next and Eldar have literally never not been OP in the games entire 30 year history except for half of one edition?

>> No.56003893

Guard had two good troop choices before this. Now they have one.

>> No.56003895

>t. ass blasted meta nigger

Keep shelling them sheckles out goy.

>> No.56003896

Time to ban Eldar right anon?
Soon it will just be space marines. As God intended.

>> No.56003900


>> No.56003901

It doesn't make the fearless as marines, marines get to chose to reroll whilst the commissar has no choice. So, lose so many men that they can't pass even if you roll a 1, roll a 1, commissar blams one and makes you reroll the 1 so you take 1+whatever more casulties than you would have done anyway.

>> No.56003904

I want templates back, /tg/

>> No.56003908

How about primed scatterbikes?

>> No.56003909

You can deploy whenever before the first turn, just put them deep on some objective or something if you can't go agressive. Good positioning is always helpful

>> No.56003915

>troop choices are the only units in the army

>> No.56003918

I mean, I was just pointing out what you talked about how conscripts were the ONLY thing that COULD take more than ten models. Which isn't true.

The point is that commissars helped a lot with managing those losses. Not that I really mind personally or think it kills Guard or anything but having a unit meant to help with leadership not function isn't exactly ideal.

>> No.56003920

Sure, but you won't place him in rapid fire range with plasmas if you go last.

>> No.56003942

>>Make unit laughably overpowered
>>nerf it fairly so that it's now a balanced unit
>>come out with army that has the same benefit as old Commissars on models that cost 3x as much as Conscripts and more expensive support elements

>> No.56003954

>nerfing nids
We're mediocre at best, who the fuck thinks we need a nerf?

>> No.56003957

Tell that to Grey Knights.
Or Necrons.
Seriously, stop being such a faggot.

>> No.56003961

>- I can drop the second Broodlord for 13 more genestealers and run 3 units of 18, 17 and 17 GSs or
Retarded, you lose synapse coverage and become less effective in combat.
>- I can keep two Broodlords and split these two units I already have into 13, 12, 12 to fulfill battalion detachment requirements or
You become too vulnerable to losing your four attacks, don't do this.
>- I can drop the second Broodlord to run 2x 20-GS units and buy two boxes of Termagants for a 24-bugs unit (12 with devourers and 12 with fleshborers)
There is literally no point to this, especially since you're not even using a Tervigon.

>> No.56003962

You were almost right. Guard had two good troop choices and one ridiculous broken troop choice before this. Now they have 3 good troop choices.

>> No.56003974

not the guy you are quoting but ive never played a game in which they didnt get to shoot like that at least once. put them up in a ruin and place a bait unit at the base and then when they use one of their alpha deep strike units to take the bait you wipe the deep strike squad through weight of fire,

objective camping is annother good use for em.

>> No.56003977

Wow, imagine if you had to play an army at some point that didn't have the ability to take amazingly powerful, cheap units in every slot to easily create a brigade in 2000 point games. 40k would basically be unplayable at that point wouldn't it?

>> No.56003979


Literally no one is saying that.

>> No.56003983

Re posting from other thread.I am playing a 2k 2v2 Game soon. I'll be IG and GK vs DG and Chaos Daemons/CSM. I know the GK will probably be bringing Termies. Kinda still feel like I'm gonna get shredded tho.

>> No.56003991

>Talon of Horus

>> No.56003994

I can make a brigade in a 1k game even with kriegers

>> No.56003995

Q: If I issue an order to a unit with an Officer who has the
Laurels of Command, and I roll a 4+ to issue another order
to the same unit, do I resolve the first order before issuing
the second?
A: Yes.
The fuck is this.

>> No.56003997

>3 knights


>> No.56003999

>Kept saying they're going to nerf commisars and conscripts
>No one believed me
>Finally vindicated
It feels good.

>> No.56004000

Salty IGfags who think that if their 3 point 5+ save 24" range shooting conscripts that still benefit from orders half the time can't also ignore morale, then Tyranids 4 point 6+ save 12" range gun bugs that have almost no buffs and rely on massive, expensive, unhideable monsters instead of 30-point untargetable commissars, shouldn't be able able to ignore morale either, even though that's the most core element of their entire faction identity and has been since their inception in the 80s.

>> No.56004004

>the GK will be bringing Termies
Give your GK-bro the fucking memo:
Termies ARE SHIT.
Tell him to play Purgators, Strikes and Paladins.

>> No.56004006

Wow, imagine if instead of nerfing the armies that have more than one troop choice to the point that they have only one troop option that's viable, GW would instead buff the armies that have no troop choices at all?

Wouldn't that be a crazy game, where every army has diverse options? I don't think I'd like it. I'd rather play 8th edition, where every army only has one option, which isn't appreciably different from any other comparable option in every other army!

>> No.56004010

>all these flavor of the month guardfags mad that their army is no longer completely immune to morale

>> No.56004012

the index imp 1 has the list what they can take.
it should be in the links above.
Maybe start with the start collecting box. its usually good value. or one of the starter kits (Dark Imperium, know no fear... as you may take primaris. and the models are kinda cheap)

>> No.56004018


The salt is amazing. I love watching guard fags cry.

>> No.56004021

>yfw plastic Sisters

>> No.56004023

So it seems like I should stick with the first list to keep both broodlords for 3 synapse dudes in total and hope that I will get into cc, yup?

>> No.56004026

Alphabet Bird, Magnus, Celestine, Guilliman and AL nerfs when?

>The Anamnesis

Literally whos?

>> No.56004029

>Give your GK-bro the fucking memo:
>Termies ARE SHIT.
>Tell him to play Purgators, Strikes and Paladins.

Are they really that bad now?

>> No.56004032

Does anyone else also wish they made 8th edition codexes look like how they were in 7th?

>> No.56004034

Again, I actually do play necrons.

I wanted my dudes brought up to the guardfag's level, not the guardfags brought down to mine.

>> No.56004038

It's funny because they still have access to 4 different ways to prevent Morale from mattering and they're still being little bitches about it.

>> No.56004039


>> No.56004049

I'm waiting until they start bottom-barrelling the price.

I hope it happens, guardsmen squads are both great and underutilized so having a lot of men is still great.

>> No.56004052

>tfw tread head
>never even wanted to conscript spam
Now all these faggots are jumping ship and now everyone will shut the fuck up about guard. Thank the emperor.

>> No.56004053

Basically. Though you've got so much speed you should be able to hit combat with minimal if any losses regardless.

>> No.56004061

I don't think anyone that wasn't a delusional WAACfag thought they would go unnerfed. I was saying the same thing.

Yes. The only dudes GK should put in Termie armor better be HQs, Paladins and Ancients. And Apothecaries I guess.

>> No.56004063

>seriously: having a commissar in your army will cause more model losses per morale test than not now.
Can we stop spouting this bullshit? A Commissar gives his Ld8 to nearby units. Conscripts have Ld4. By having a Commissar around Conscripts, you lower morale losses by 4 per test at base.

I repeat: whoever was saying Commissars make you lose more units to morale is full of shit. Stop parroting this.

>> No.56004064


>> No.56004065

What's army has a low model count that can slap shit in melee without needing a transport to carry them around in?

I'm strapped for space to keep my models and I don't plan on playing over 1500 pts

>> No.56004066

Cyrexia was the badass tech lord of an entire forgeworld in the Eye of Terror.

Gyre is a bad ass daemon changeling which favours a female wolf form.

Nefertari is a bad ass true born dark eldar scourge, sworn in service to Khayon.

The Anamnesis is Khayon's ship's machine spirit, the main biological part being a dusky Prosperan woman.

>> No.56004068

Did I miss something? Did they faq commisars or something?

>> No.56004069

>I just wanted my army to become insanely broken
>I didnt want the broken army to be nerfed
Now this is some high quality bait

>> No.56004071

Either way is good really, staying on objective with cover save and -1 to hit will make your opponent go nuclear.

>> No.56004075

Remember when people said chapter approved would only address points values and that actual factual rules were set in stone and only points would be changed.

>> No.56004082 [DELETED] 

Why are white people so insecure? Literally no one pay mind to this trivial shit. More and more I am starting to believe that white folks are really inherently racists more so than any sort of folks.

>> No.56004083

Interceptor grey knights m8

>> No.56004087

Well you're in luck, because your army is still due for buffs and Guard didn't get brought down to anywhere even fucking NEAR Necrons level.

>Flyer spam status: NERFED
>Conscript status: NERFED
>Guilliman status: Awaiting CA nerfs
>Celestine status: Awaiting CA nerfs
>Smite-spam status: Awaiting CA nerfs
>Forge World shit status: Awaiting CA nerfs

We're getting there lads.

>> No.56004089

out of the loop. how were they nerfed?

>> No.56004093

That sounds like something thirteen year old DoW III player would make, actually.

>> No.56004094

>18" range
>stationary for double shooting

That's cute

>> No.56004096

Commissars no longer auto pass morale. Tyranids are the sole owners of synapse once more.

>> No.56004099


ADB is garbage. Nobody gives a shit about women in the setting, what people care about is that his characters are wanked as Sues (Khayon) and waifus (every fucking female character he has ever written).

>> No.56004109

Typical ADB's waifus.

>> No.56004111

Don't be delusional, Guard will still absolutely fucking destroy you.

more seriously I'm content to just wait for everyone's codexes, plus Chapter Approved to mitigate some of the wonkiness. We always knew Codices were straight upgrades from Indices, so Guard are hardly down at your level, and when your codex comes out I'm sure it'll be kind. At the very least you'll get the things that have been coming standard with every codex - Objective Secured, ways to farm more command points, a -1 to hit faction, some FnP, and stratagems to infiltrate and deep strike your shit

and I have no doubt Necron Relics will be a fucking RIDE

>> No.56004119

Artillery can't Take Cover anymore, and lose MoO rerolls at closer than 36

>> No.56004124

THank you, jesus christ these faggots are insufferable.

>> No.56004125

I've heard they're not that powerful in 8th edition anyway. Also, who doesn't love some big, stompy Knights in shining armour running around, while Kriegers be trenching?

>> No.56004130

>A Commissar gives his Ld8 to nearby units. Infantry squads have Ld7 whilst the sgt is allowed.
Fixed for you.

>> No.56004138

>He doesn't have a player in his area that actually understands how fucking good infantry squads are now

Anon, ALL THREE OF THEIR TROOPS ARE GOOD. You just never saw infantry squads because tryhards liked using rentaconscripts to screen their Ultramarines.

Infantry squads are stupid good you just need to build the list with them in mind, they're not a fire and forget unit like conscripts were. Most get really big buffs out of their regiment traits too.

>> No.56004142

How does that work? I'm looking at picking up Nids and will probably get the new SC! when it comes out

>> No.56004144

>trips of redemption

By the emperor!!

>> No.56004151

...yes, that's still true. This isn't Chapter Approved, retard, it's the Guard Codex FAQ/Errata.

>> No.56004155

Let me put it like this:
>Strike costs 21 points, has a 4 shot stormbolter
>Purgator costs 23 points, has a 6 shot psilencer
>Terminator costs 48 points, has a 4 shot stormbolter
>Paladin costs 55 points, has a 4 shot stormbolter

Two Strikes are cheaper than a Terminator, have the same melee attacks, wounds and twice the shooting. The only advantadge the Terminator gets is a 2+5++

A Paladin, on the other hand, cost 7, I mean just 7 fucking points more and gets and extra attack, wound (which makes them so much better against Terminatorkillers like Plasma and Autocannons), the option for more special weapons, a Sergeant that hits on 2s and Unit sizes that can go beneath 5 if you want to.

Terminators are so bad it isnt even funny. Any other unit in the codex fills their role better for less points.
>Massed Stormbolter fire/Obsec
Strikes are cheaper and better
>Elite hard hitting units
Paladins are far superior, and a smaller squad of Paladins will absolutely rip a more expensive Terminator unit.

>> No.56004157

>buy resin plague marines just before dark imperium release
>paint, Base, leave on shelf to strategically accumulate dust
>pack in case every time but not in the army
>when someone accuses you of jumping on the bandwagon, reveal them dramatically
Problem solved

>> No.56004163

So... about this


>> No.56004165

WIP? WIP. Just finished hacking this Archon together. Not looking forward to the gap filling and minor sculpting, but I love his ridiculous fuckhueg blaster.

>> No.56004171

How do I 1k pts GK cheaply and don't get auto-tabled? I want an elite army for some budget fun with friends and GK seem to be fine

>> No.56004172

>and lose MoO rerolls at closer than 36
That was already a thing

>> No.56004179

Well, he sure ain't going to get cover anytime soon.

>> No.56004180

Genestealers are fast and get to advance with every movement and can still charge

Swarmlord lets them move twice

Generally a consistent first turn charge.

If you really want to push it you can tyrannocyte in swarmlord and drop in genestealers with a trygon tunnel. I just prefer to avoid that big an investment and use devilgants for consistent trygon tunnel lethality myself.

>> No.56004181

ITT we laugh at everyone who bought hundreds of conscript models.

>> No.56004183

It's not completely useless, it's the exact same that Space Marines get for the loss of one model.

>> No.56004184


>> No.56004185

Late to the party much anon. What a faggot

>> No.56004187

>infantry squads are conscripts

>> No.56004189

This is way better for Guard players who actually like Guard fluff. Commissars are not hive lords; people are people and even the threat of death may not be enough when fleeing from another threat of death.

Synapse is the property of Nids.

>> No.56004191

thank the emperor I'm not the only one who noticed that. That could be taken a lot of different ways.

I'm going to play it as the orders need to not be related, like say FRFSRF then move move move or something but I could see some fuckstick claiming you could use it to shoot twice now by issuing two different "fire" orders.

>> No.56004193

Right but everyone thought codex rules were impervious to non clarification rules changes. Summary getting an entire overhaul wasn't something people thought could happen. They could FAQ Guilliman to a garbage pile tomorrow if they wanted to.

>> No.56004195

The start collecting box is really good value for what you get, 10 man tacs, termie captain and Baal pred are a good start. Keep in mind however that ba tactical are shorter than normal marines, so if you stick them next to primaris they look like children

Our unique units mostly suck. Deathcompany are overcosted and sanguinary guard don't know what they want to be fighting . Libby dreads are nice though

Named characters are mostly solid, with mephiston probably being the worst. Lemartes is mandatory if you run deathcompany with astorath being a possible sub out

Ultimately until we get out codex we are just red marines. You'll have to stick with the good units in the generic codex to be competitive

>> No.56004196

>some Strikes
>Either a Dread or a small squad of Paladins

>> No.56004209

>Knights with Krieg
>not having your Knights lord over pathetic feudal world guardsmen

>> No.56004210

GK are best played with a supporting army such as guard to provide bodies. Not a GK player so I can't tell you much else. Also 1k is not generally considered balanced by the wider community.

>> No.56004213


>> No.56004218

Bad for smelly neckbeard WAACshitters, amazing for the game and every man of taste, substance and class.

>> No.56004222


>> No.56004223

Is there any way to run an Infanty Squad IG army without blobbing it up that won't get fucked immediately?

I like the idea of seperate squads.

>> No.56004227

You are aware they still buff the leadership of all units around them, right?

>> No.56004230

Because they're boring to fight against and require your opponent to spam anti-tank weapons

>> No.56004232


>> No.56004234

Fortunately, my play group is incredibly lenient on cover and LOS. We tend to ignore heavily converted stuff if it's obviously in cover/blocked. Imagine this models gun barrel sticking up over a wall. It can't shoot you, you can't shoot it. Common sense.

>> No.56004235

No, if you want to run infantry in IG, your effective options are limited to scions and ogryns now.

>> No.56004237


>> No.56004242

who the hell was using take cover on manticores, you used that for your baneblade

>> No.56004243

is that what made conscripts so good? how did that make them so good, i don't quite get it

>> No.56004244

>>butthurt commissar shitters say their unit is useless
>>ld9 bubble and killing psykers for their own good on a cheapo character is useless
Get fucked fuck men.

>> No.56004248

Back when templar could not ally with psykers besides GKs I would ally them.

>> No.56004250

Thanks man I appreciate the explanation

>> No.56004251

How can one be this wrong?

>> No.56004258

A good read for a wanting soul.
>One of the relics WILL be a phylactery.
>Whether it still gives 6th RP for characters could still go either way.

>> No.56004261

As a guard player, I'm elated that conscripts are back where they belong.

>> No.56004265


>> No.56004266

Grey Knights, man.

>> No.56004267

Infantry models just have to be within terrain, it doesn't matter how obscured they are.

>> No.56004268

In the case of conscripts, they buff it by 4.
In the case of Infantry Squads and Scions, they buff it by 1. And now they increase morale losses by 1. So your argument is kind of moot.

>> No.56004269

Bandwagon guardfag tears are delicious.

>> No.56004272

Well >>56003351 did not mention conscripts at all, so the fact your attempted rebuttal hinges soley on the fact that the only unit in IG effected by commissars is conscripts is a pretty glaing flaw.

>> No.56004275


>> No.56004280

>the virgin Astra Militarum
Spams conscripts with a commissar + artillery because its "meta". Always uses Cadian doctrine, or Tallarn if he brought a couple russes. His army is hideous unpainted Catachans. Gets butthurt when commissars are nerfed, switches to (unpainted) Eldar immediately after selling his army for a couple hundred USD on ebay. Nobody likes playing him. He will never know the joy of placing a fully painted, personalized army onto the battlefield.

>the chad Imperial Guard
Brings nothing but tanks, and plays them as whatever regiment he has them modeled as regardless of the meta. His army is completely painted in detailed schemes with thinned paints and expertly applied washes. He is completely unaffected by the Commissar FAQ, finally happy that the stigma attached to his army is passing and his tanks are still competitive. Both he and his opponents enjoy all their battles.

>> No.56004281


>Right but everyone thought codex rules were impervious to non clarification rules changes.
Not really, we've been told constantly this whole edition that if some things are clearly broken GW will fix them.

The only reason they're holding off on the CA changes is they need more time to carefully evaluate how much to change the points by.

>> No.56004285

>TFW was going to buy like 400 but only bought 100 in the end.

I have dodged a bullet of massive proportions.

>> No.56004288

This is literally how it worked for the past few editions. You killed a guy and rerolled the test. It's still better than the previous version too since if your guys failed twice in that edition they could be automatically destroyed even if they had only lost a couple of people by being too close to a board edge or by getting run down in close combat.

>> No.56004290

Gks are shit at any point level beneath 1k.
Now, I'd recommend something like an HQ, some Paladins, a Dreadnought, and a Purgation Squad with Psilencers. Fill out the last couple points with whatever else you feel like.


You go full on crazy mode like I did.
Recently had a 750 point Tournament, I brought
>Brotherhood Champion
>Purgation Squad with Bolters and Halberds
>Purgation Squad with Bolters and Halberds
>Purgation Squad with Psilencers
>All of them fit neatly into a LAND RAIDER CRUSADER
Come seize my Initiative, BITCH

>> No.56004293

Conscripts now only get orders on 4+ and can't autopass morale with Commissar nerf. They are no longer a hyper efficient meatshield that also throws out massed fire.

>> No.56004294

how do you play 1ks if you don't want to take magnus?

>> No.56004299

>commissars are fine with some units
>some units
Gee, I wonder who I could have been referring too?

Probably tesla warriors in the necron codex. Commissars are so good with those guys.

>> No.56004305

You don't lol

>> No.56004308

You don't sadly. Gotta wait to 1ksons codex, or tzeentch daemons at least.

>> No.56004313

>MSU Rubric squads
>Pred or two
>couple of tzaangors
>few Sorcs
>AL Helbrute detachment to unlock stuff
>just get fucking Magnus

>> No.56004315

Living the dream if Allies of convenience ever becomes a thing!

>> No.56004316

I wonder how Commissars work with Regimental Standards and something like the Catachan doctrine of getting +1 Ld. if an officer is withing 6".

>> No.56004317

ravenguard strategem is also amazing with them.

>> No.56004318

This is truth. Russ tank company now and forever.

>> No.56004322

Maybe I could add Conscripts that look like penal regiments someday

On the other hand, they're just three models, and when they are gone the rest of the list probably melts like butter in the hot sun anyway, what with just three squads of guardsmen and some artillery sitting around.

>> No.56004325

>And now they increase morale losses by 1
Unless you pass because of the re-roll, which you usually will with 10-man units. And if that happens, guess what, you effectively limited your losses to Morale to a single guy, which is exactly what Commissars did before.

You overreactionary faggots need to calm down and look at the rules.

>> No.56004326

>All this Cultist conversion fodder on Ebay
>Don't have to spend a gorrillion dollars on infantry squad boxes now
Imperiumfag tears are delicious and good for my wallet.

>> No.56004328

non-blob infantry squads are solid. You get even more cp than conscript blob guard does so take units that let you take advantage of that. Cadians with Creed are an excellent choice for them considering he's consistently four and often five orders, and if you roll low you can always just leave some men unordered if they weren't going to accomplish much anyway.

>> No.56004330

Sweet! Cheap models up for grabs.

>mfw GW sold out of half their guard models
>mfw they immediately nerf them in an FAQ released after their codex

They knew what they were doing...

>> No.56004333

good. fuck people who buy models and make armies just to win. same type of people that don't paint their armies because they don't even care about the hobby

>> No.56004337

you play Tzeentch deamons with a patrol detachment

>> No.56004338

Everything but conscripts you complete moron. >commissars are fine in combination with some units. Broken in combination with others
The broken with part refers to conscripts, the fine with part refers to other infantry.

>> No.56004342

Flank with rough riders and double up on the heavy weapon teams firing lines.

>> No.56004345

Take a fucking 15 point Astropath and the 200 conscripts you bought for totally fluffy and hobby reasons are still fully immune to morale, fuck.

>> No.56004346

Not their fault Cheesemongers are thirsty for them wins, man.

>> No.56004347

>Interceptor GKs
Where the hell did you get that idea? Falchions arent that good, mate. Our Paladins and Dreadnoughts are for melee. All our PAGK types are for shooting point blank with bolters or from behind a wall with psilencers

>> No.56004351

You run a lot of them. Yes, one infantry squad is irrevocably fucked. Which is why you run like 12 of the damn things.

Look at the platoon organisation chart in the codex, we used to run that fucker as a single troop choice in older codexes. If you're taking anything less than at least double the troops choices your opponent has and using infantry squads, you have horribly fucked up.

You need it to be at the point where the opponent can kill half of them in turn 1 and all you need to do is spread out a bit and it looks like he barely did a dent. Infantry squads also kind of need fire support for obvious reasons, so they tend to mesh well with Leman Russ support, officers, and other units that can benefit from their screens. Sprinkling in pyskers and priests helps too.

>> No.56004352


>> No.56004353

Still boring to fight. 1 knight is cool to add to a list, 3 is hella boring outside of apoc

>> No.56004359

I'm unironically happy for you, friend.

RIP Eldar players who got to enjoy only a few fleeting months of freedom from the WAACshitters that will now be flooding back to them.

>> No.56004367

Creed locks you out of Grand Strategist, and costs as much as two senior officers for those 4 orders anyway.

>> No.56004371

Man we get faq and shitposting started.

>> No.56004373

And the cheesemongers got played. I like GW's new strat.

>> No.56004374

I worked out the math just now, the commissar reroll will result in a pass in 29% of cases, assuming an equal distribution of necessary targets to roll under with the reroll.

Which isn't good enough to overcome the guaranteed 1 loss from that reroll anyways, especially when you consider that in about as many cases the reroll will result in more losses from morale.

>> No.56004378

Then they too will be nerfed.

>> No.56004390

But they are. Falchion Interceptors put out more attacks per point than even Paladins, and have their jump generators to double as anchors while your actual Paladins deep strike.

The ONLY thing PAGK do worse than Termies is survive, arguably, and that's where Paladins excel.

>> No.56004392

>Nefertari is a bad ass true born dark eldar scourge, sworn in service to Khayon.
Jesus fucking Christ

>> No.56004393

If you're fielding GK and not shooting then assaulting, what exactly are you paying points for?

>> No.56004398


My tankers are actually space marines not IG, I'm just memeing.

>> No.56004404

What’s the name of that smug cunt playtester who incorrectly touted much shit to be “amazing” and insisted shit was “fine” (like conscripts)

>> No.56004410

I played them back in their first remake because i used them in 4th a lot. I assumed they were still good at raping soft targets.

>> No.56004421

I told people right at the start of the edition this was the new plan.

Every new book is going to look broken at first. WAACfags will rush out to buy all that shit. Two weeks later, GW will nerf them. Queue WAACfag tears, GW wins huge PR points with everyone else who gets to mine the salt for great lulz. Next Codex repeats the cycle. GW rakes in WAACfag cash on EVERY SINGLE RELEASE, REGARDLESS OF ARMY, until these faggots are completely broke and all the armies are balanced.

>> No.56004422

Eh, I'm just building them right now anyway, and my Kriegers should be in the mail on monday too. Someday I'll stock up on Kriegers, penal conscripts, Bullgryns, Basilisks and Death Riders and build the nightmare that is not!Verdun in the 41st milennium.
Until then, I'm okay with three centerpiece models and some chaff.

>> No.56004423

>no infantry platoon wave of guardsman player who was ultimately unaffected by conscript nerf

I'll remember this when you need a screen for those genestealers treadhead.

>> No.56004430

And you seriously think the whining guarfags are complaining about their 10-man infantry squads no longer being immune to morale? Or their 30-man conscript blobs?

>> No.56004431

Guard fags are justifiably angry that they got bait and switched and only scions are viable now.

People who are shortsighted and don't play guard are happy that waacfags who switched to guard got blown the fuck out.

People who aren't shortsighted and don't play guard are worried that the same balance technique will be applied to their faction.

That technique being: good but not great with the index, overpowered with the codex, and underpowered with the faq.

>> No.56004434


>> No.56004436

What's the issue?

Dark Eldar don't have a problem with Thousand Sons or Tzeentch.

If he was a Slaaensh guy I'd get that it was inappropriate.

I think its awesome to have a dark eldar scourge in service to a Chaos Sorcerer. People like Trayzn. Why can't Chaos also have cool aliens as servants?

>> No.56004438


How do Admech and GK fit in that plan?

>> No.56004445



>> No.56004448

Reese's Peanutbutter Cups

>> No.56004459

Reecius, and he stopped saying Conscripts were fine after they won NOVA months ago, admitted he was wrong and said nerfs were coming.

>> No.56004467

Maybe its my meta, then. For me its pretty much only worth using tough units like paladins and dreads in melee because anything else will die afterwards, even if they charged. I use my PAGK as shooty anchors that sit safely behind my Paladins who eat up the wounds for them.

>> No.56004476

Those regiment buffs and things like standards do not affect commissars as they're not part of the regiment. The commissar's ability allows friendly units to use his leadership for tests. This means if you say had a Catachan officer and Standard next to a Catachan infantry squad as well as a commissar, the infantry squad gets a better benefit from their officer and flag than they do the commissar, in this case regiment bonuses make them LD 9, Commissar makes them LD 8.

This is intentional and hilarious, as Catachans are well known for their hatred of commissars. It feels right that they're just as brave if not more so than the average commissar.

>> No.56004481

Filler releases done by interns because the designers don't have time to fuck around with every single book like this.

>> No.56004487

I'm not angry at all, it was obviously broken as fuck. If you did not see this coming you deserve to waste your money.

t. Guardfag

>> No.56004489

>Dark Eldar don't have a problem with Thousand Sons or Tzeentch
Yes they do. All Eldar despise Chaos in all its forms, and DE in particular are especially hateful of psykers.
ADB's writing is beyond shit, it's just absurd.

They don't. Sins of 7th and 5th respectively.

>> No.56004492

>1 hour old general
>alredy bump limit

>> No.56004497


They hired tourneyfags instead of real players as playtesters. Rookie mistake.

>> No.56004500

>only scions are viable now

Exactly as planned!

My 5th edition stormtroopers list had all but lost hope by the end of 7th, BUT WHO IS LAUGHING NOW?!!

>> No.56004504

>was going to buy like 400
I dunno, I think your case is terminal.

>> No.56004508

this thread is FULL of guard players delighting in the tears of bandwagoners, what are you talk about. The only "guard" players that seem mad are the ones selling hundreds of unpainted conscripts.

I'm curious whether craftworlds will get a similar treatment, but aside from Alaitoc Flyer spam and maybe Fire Prism/Cloudstrike Wave Serpent alpha strike, they seem to be in a pretty decent-ish place, hanging out with death guard and admech in terms of power

>> No.56004514

>That technique being: good but not great with the index, overpowered with the codex, and underpowered with the faq.
Funny, because Guard were Overpowered with the Index, SUPER Overpowered with the Codex, and now Great but not Overpowered with the FAQ.

>> No.56004523

>Every new book is going to look broken at first.
CSM, AdMech, Death Guard, and GK don't really have anything broken. And SM just has Rowboat, but he's one model and doesn't matter for everyone not playing Ultramarines.

CSM breaks Fagnus, but that's the fault of Fagnus and his interaction with Warptime and the Tzeentch power. You could maybe argue that Warptime does the same for Morty, but there's a reason Fagnus gets used 100% of the time in Chaos Soup and Morty rarely does.

>> No.56004525

Yeah, if everyone rocks assault units you're put in a rough spot.

They're great for chumping guard and tau, or finishing off injured units.

>> No.56004527


>Only scions are viable now

Look bud, your army has a shit ton of great stuff. Treat your chaff infantry as the disposable S3 battery it is and get over yourself.

>> No.56004535

As always Craftworld Eldar players

>> No.56004539

Every time

>> No.56004547

>Page 138 – The Dagger of Tu’Sakh
>Add the following sentence at the start of the rules text:
>‘Infantry Officer model only.

Well shit, so much for hiding my Tank Commander from the fucking Shadowswords. I did at least convince my LGS mnager we needed more BLoS terrain, though.

>> No.56004551

you can only do that power once a turn and I don't even think an astopath can pull of that power.

So in reality you're paying 40 for a primaris pysker to make a 30 man conscript unit fearless. Then you have insane bravery for another 30, then you bring Valahallans with the Mk 45 bolt pistols to keep say another 60-90 in line with old commissar rules.

Honestly Valhallans still work pretty decently with commissars around conscripts, since they cut their battleshock in half.

>> No.56004554

anyone here ever use one of these before?

>> No.56004557


I'm never going to settle on an army. Never going to be happy. I long for death.

>> No.56004558

I think you got them in reverse:

>the virgin flufftard
spends years of his life not having sex and instead painting miniatures in excrutiating detail.
>will spend further years of his life talking about the exploits of his toys and his exact regiment history to any woman too nice to tell him she isn't interested until he asks her out on a date
>nobody likes playing him, because he always tells them exactly why what they're doing isn't in accordance with his headcanon interpretations of a nebulous and often retconned fictional universe
>will never know the joy of winning a game

>the chad waac
>spends years of his life having sex. Too much time spent inside women and gyms means he has to skip on painting, but that's fine he never really cared about that anyways
>enjoys winning and has lots of money to burn from his lucrative male jiggolo business, so he just buys whatever is most effective in the current meta and then hires illegal immigrants to assemble them
>Doesn't care what the fluff says, knows that GW has horrible writers anyways
>will never know the pain of losing

>> No.56004559

>tanks shoot twice

Conscript cuck detected.

>> No.56004562

Tyranids are the real threat to the galaxy.

>> No.56004564

>someone was specifically talking about how utterly useless a commissar is at what his job is supposed to be for normal infantry and you just went HURR CONSCRIPTS
>better double down

>> No.56004565

>Yes they do. All Eldar despise Chaos in all its forms, and DE in particular are especially hateful of psykers.
>ADB's writing is beyond shit, it's just absurd
Talon of Horus (i didnt read it( played rather in 32k than 40k right?
DE society changed a great deal during that time, including the whole atrophied psyker stuff.

Not that the DE should view humans as anything other than useful vermin, but still

>> No.56004571

>the time has come and so have I.

one job

>> No.56004573

I think the first few books needed to set the base power level before they could start releasing the broken ones, otherwise people wouldn't be able to realize how much more powerful the newer ones were in order to fall sucker to this strategy and bandwagon onto it.

>> No.56004575

>Choppy, Zergish, and Assault based
>preferably Imperium
Eh, I think Space Wolves are prolly what you want then, what with Phil Kelly writing their rules.

>> No.56004576


Doesn't Guilliman see play in Imperial Soup a lot? He's still pretty powerful.

>> No.56004583


>> No.56004584

Eh, that's a given.

>> No.56004585

Got the names wrong. The ones still calling them Imperial Guard are the autists, the ones calling them Astra Militarum are the new guys playing the game with whatever they like

>> No.56004587

>Guard fags are justifiably angry that they got bait and switched and only scions are viable now.

There's not enough smug anime images in the world to describe how bad this player is.

>> No.56004589

>I'm never going to settle on an army. Never going to be happy. I long for death.
there is a way
have multiple armies.
i chose that route too. its expensive but there is no other way

>> No.56004590

it literally is mathematically worse than no execution

>> No.56004591

You spelled GW wrong.

>> No.56004596

DE don't use psykers because it's dangerous to use them in commoragh, and because big daddy vect said so.

DE have no rules. By saying "Dark eldar wouldn't do that" you have caused 7 different dark eldar to do that, all attempting to outdegeneracy each other while doing it.

>> No.56004598

>What is "Cult of Sacrifice" ?

>> No.56004599

>guard nerf not only makes commissars worthless, if you use them, their ability makes the leadership roll EVEN HARDER, since it's another model slain in the unit

why the FUCK?

>> No.56004602

I was thinking the same, after i read about daemonic invasion on hive fleet.

>> No.56004603

>what is fluff
t. WAACfag

>> No.56004606

Stop trying to trigger Carnac and shit the thread up, we don't need another autism slapfight.

t. oldfag Nid player, obey your elders bitch

>> No.56004611

Do you even know anything about Dark Eldar? Signs point to no.

The whole POINT of them is that they are a snapshot of the worst parts of the Eldar empire before the Fall. They have ALWAYS hated Chaos and ever since the Fall, they have hated psykers too, because a single psyker could spell the end of Commorragh.

>> No.56004612

It doesn't make the roll harder, since the extra model doesn't count as a casualty. It does increase the overall amount of morale casualties compared to not having a commissar at all.

>> No.56004616

>I think its awesome to have a dark eldar scourge in service to a Chaos Sorcerer. People like Trayzn. Why can't Chaos also have cool aliens as servants?
>Willfully pledging service to a human

Waifu factor aside existing to jerk ADB's donut steel, come the fuck on

>> No.56004617


>> No.56004618

>reading comprehension

The extra model doesn't count.

>> No.56004619

But it's fun to poke the chaosfag...

>> No.56004621

>he is so insecure he needs absolutely win at a friendly game to validate himself.

>> No.56004628

I haven't seen Imp Soup pop up in a while, and in any case wasn't the fearless Conscript blob a staple of that list too?

>> No.56004631

it literally mathematically is not, you're ignoring all cases where the re-roll saves you from failing as well as the commissars leadership buff in the first place

>> No.56004638

Cawl+dakka-bots+Wrath of Mars strat is pretty fucking broken.

But that doesn't matter for everyone not playing Mars so a-okay.

>> No.56004640


Anon, I am not a millionaire. I lack an excess of internal organs.

>> No.56004641

How many times you going to post this anon?

>> No.56004646


>> No.56004647

Necrons don't lack for Anti-vehicle; their Heavy destroyers and Praetorian spider tank using Heavy gauss cannons.

They're not all that durable though. They're more akin to weed than a brick wall, growing back if you leave even a single one.

>> No.56004650

>tfw the ahriman novel has a girl as their machine spirit too, but it's written well

Carmenta was great.

>> No.56004655

>So what's up with Primaris Marine Gene-Seed? Cawl claims their gene-seed is more genetically pure, stable, and without the defects or mutations of their predecessors. Is that true? Can I finally make a Loyalist Chapter from a Primarch that isn't Rob, Khan, Ferrus or from the traitorous Lion?
Yes, it is and yes you can. He has a full bank of geneseed for every legion.

It is also more pure since it has basically been stuck in storage the whole time instead of being reused constantly.

It has all the same defects the original geneseeds have though (in the case of things like Space Wolves, Blood Angels etc), since he was requested to keep them.

>> No.56004659

>are worried that the same balance technique will be applied to their faction.

Nope, not at all, I don't base my army around FOTM, I take units because I like them.
If there's regular fixes GREAT it means the game is alive an not just a 7 year luck of the draw.

>> No.56004660

Maybe if you haven't been around long enough to get tired of seeing many, many threads destroyed in the same old cyclical autistic argument over and over

At least wait til our Codex comes out, then you can taunt him with all the fluff of Tyranids ruining Chaos in it.

>> No.56004673

>t. oldfag Nid player, obey your elders bitch
cant stop laughin at your thorn dicks

>> No.56004674

well fuck, I missed the brackets.

Still, that ability still makes commissars worthless.

>> No.56004675

>I don't even think an astopath can pull of that power.
Wrong. Astropaths get a penalty to casting Smite, but can cast every other power just fine. Mental Fortitude is WC4, meaning they have a 11/12 chance of casting it.

>> No.56004679

b-but anon as a sisters player I must remain a chaste maiden

>> No.56004688

True, I guess. Fine.

>> No.56004693


Why would I be worried? I play CW:E.

>> No.56004695

I'm gonna cum inside you with my tanned tallarn dick.

>> No.56004696

ah, my bad then. I knew they had some sort of penalty but couldnt remember it off the top of my head.

Point still stands though, he's only affecting 30 conscripts at a time.

>> No.56004701

Those beak dicks were terrifying honestly

But yeah those models looked like shit. Most other Tyranids from that era were better by varying degrees of "slightly less shit" to "god tier sculpts still better than the modern ones"

>> No.56004704

Once again, no it isn't.

>> No.56004711

I just want infantry platoons back.

>> No.56004722

Annihilators got what was expected in the FAQ, with a hull-mounted one that's 5 lascannon shots so they're pretty decent now.

Thunderers and Malcadors got shafted though.

>> No.56004724

gives all infantry 8 leadership and rerollable morale, so it makes every single guardsman near them as hard to scare as marines.

I'd say that's worth, what, 30 points. It's about what sisters pay for a "reroll morale" elites choice character with literally no other function.

>> No.56004732

Once again, it is.

>> No.56004746

Uh Uh

>> No.56004751

What happened with conquerors?

I was gonna put a yoy order out today for more turrets.

>> No.56004753

Where did you find that ??

>> No.56004760

Not him but same page as the Guard FAQ, they released a FW one and a GSC one too.

>> No.56004785

You don't get it. They HAVE to reroll moral. That means if the enemy kills 6 infantry, and you roll a two, then the commissar shoots a guy and you STILL have to roll a D6 for casualties. Just for example. At least it makes platoon standards, commissar tanks, Petrov's 45, and the Catachan/Mordian doctrines more useful.

>> No.56004795

It isn't "rerollable morale", since usually rerollable morale is a choice.

Instead, imagine this scenario:
>Conscript blob takes 7 casualties
>need to roll a 1 to avoid any casualties.
>you roll a 2
>1 guy flees
>commissar shoots that person immediately.
>the rest of the guardsmen, who were ignoring their fleeing comrade turn and look behind them.
>they realize a gun toting psychopath is behind them in addition to the guntoting psychopaths in front of them, and both are willing to shoot.
>forced reroll
>roll a 6
>5 more conscripts flee

Gee, thanks GW!

>> No.56004807

GW Facebook just confirmed that the IG Codex was already at the printers before 8th edition had even released.

>> No.56004823

>That means if the enemy kills 6 infantry, and you roll a two, then the commissar shoots a guy
Uh, no. If the enemy kills 6 guys, and you roll a 2, the result is 8, which is your Leadership, so you pass.

>> No.56004824

What do you do if you've got an infantry heavy force and are faced with a mechanised/tank force?

>> No.56004835

thats hilarious AND fluffy

>> No.56004838

Not how it works, Anon.

>> No.56004842

And yet for every time you roll a 2 into a 6, you'll also roll a 6 into a 2.

>> No.56004843

>Bandwagon fags
thank god, get out muh army

>> No.56004847

Spam cheap ass melts guns and over charge plasma guns

>> No.56004851

Well the fact you have losts of infantry should mean you have lots of cheap platforms for AT weapons. Lacannon teams/Devestators, Autocannons, Plasma, Melta, Power Axes in a pinch, swarming with krak grenades, etc.

>> No.56004855

Right, and on average you're worse off with the commissar than you would be with a unit that just buffed leadership.

>> No.56004856


Fuck me I'm going to need a bigger bucket for all these sweet salty Guardfag tears.

>> No.56004863

thank fucking god
I love running commissars protecting regular infantry squads so this doesn't really effect me

>> No.56004870

So that makes commissars not only a waste of points but detrumental, seeing as it comes with a dead guardsman to start off with.

>> No.56004874

No, you aren't.

Your math is jank, it doesn't account for the chance of reducing casualties at all.

Also if you can find me another unit in the Guard Codex that increases Conscripts Ld to 8, please go on.

>> No.56004880

Which effectively becomes a three because of the dead conscript.

Mathematically, over averages, the comissar makes the leadership results slightly worse than if he wasn't there. It should have been optional at the VERY least.

>> No.56004892

How is turning 5 morale casualties into 2 detrimental?

>> No.56004895

The chance of reducing casualties is balanced out by the chance of increasing casualties.

And then you increase casualties on top of that with the +1 guy killed.

>> No.56004897

Doesn't add to the morale roll, Anon.

>> No.56004900

>Wake up, get on 40kg...holy shit, I'm going to need 2 diet cokes for this

Alright, having thought through the commissar changes, I'm going to try to approaching this objectively. I admit that's hard, since I have been playing this army for 17 years, but here we go. I welcome any critical critiques of my logic if I make mistakes.

Let's say I have a unit of conscripts with no commissar. They have a base Ld of 4. Opponent shoots at them and inflicts 4 casualties. I roll morale, and I assume I roll a 4 (slightly worse than average). The conscripts fail by 4, take 4 more casualties for a total of 8. Drawing this logic out:

>4 casualties = +4 more casualties
>5 casualties = +5 more casualties
>8 casualties = +8 casualties
>12 casualties = +12 casualties

So without a commissar, conscripts lose double their number from morale. Now, with a commissar who confers Ld 8 on the unit:

>4 casualties = +0 casualties (pass)
>5 casualties = +1 casualty +1 from BLAM = +2 casualties
>8 casualties = +4 casualties +1 from BLAM = +5 casualties
>12 casualties = +8 casualties +1 from BLAM = +9 casualties

Commissars aren't worthless, they force the opponent to inflict a minimum of 5 casualties on average before morale losses start, and they reduce all morale losses by an average of 3 or so. Given the commissar is 30 points and conscripts are 3, he is saving about 9 points of dead people per inflicted test. Not great, but not awful. I think I'm ok with this.

The real problem, I think, is that astropaths are 21 points and can make a unit fearless, plus take away cover from the enemy to boot. Primaris psykers are even more versatile at 40 points, and then there are Inquisitors. Given these other things of similar price that perform better in every way, you are kind of hurting yourself choosing the commissar over them. Why take him, other than you like the way the model looks? I guess his aura means you confer his Ld buff to multiple squads, so that's a point in his favor at least.

>> No.56004901

Best part of the book.

>> No.56004909

Buy the mk3 burning of Prospero marines. Chain axes and world eater veteran helmets and shoulder pads from forge world. Boom heresy era looking zerkers.

>> No.56004910

Because you can also turn a two into a five

And the problem is the mandatory killing on any failure, even if the failure results in an amount of dead troops that would be acceptable.

Rolling any number on a d6 has exactly equal odds. a reroll only makes it better if you can choose to do it or not.

>> No.56004914


I don't think you understand what commissars do in the background anon

>> No.56004915

how is turning 2 casualties into 4 helpful?

>> No.56004921

>IG finally free of WAACfaggotry
thank god
post reactions

>> No.56004930

Which is still lower than a 6, idiot.

>Mathematically, over averages, the comissar makes the leadership results slightly worse than if he wasn't there.
No it doesn't, unless you're consistently taking so many casualties that you're auto-failing all your morale tests.

Here's how the commissar works:

If you're taking just enough casualties to have a chance of losing some more guys to morale, he reduces the average number of guys you will lose. If you're taking so many casualties morale is going to hit hard, he's going to make it hit slightly harder.

It's fluffy as fuck. Sometimes he shoots a guy and it prevents some from running away. Other times the whole unit is routing in terror and he attempts to shoot one to keep them from fleeing but it does nothing, they're too far gone.

It's fucking perfect.

>> No.56004943


You can blam guardsmen in all your squads every turn. You can only make one squad fearless with psychic powers per turn, and you have to determine in advance which one will get the buff(meaning the enemy can just shoot a different squad to try to rout it)

>> No.56004944

>Given these other things of similar price that perform better in every way, you are kind of hurting yourself choosing the commissar over them. Why take him, other than you like the way the model looks? I guess his aura means you confer his Ld buff to multiple squads, so that's a point in his favor at least.

you're limited to one of each power per psychic phase. Commissar abilities work nonstop and can affect multiple units. This matters more for conscript spam. If you're running 1-2 conscript units then yes, pyskers and strategems are a better plan.

>> No.56004946

Commissars aren't /tg/ memes.

They judge situations and mostly only execute when it actually would help.

That's not to say that most of them are Ciaphas Cain, Ibrahm Gaunt, or Yarrick, but they're not retards either.

>> No.56004979

I like that too, shame they still haven't fixed the vanquisher.

>> No.56004981

leman russes still exist anon.

>> No.56004987

Im stuck between necrons and eldar

>> No.56004991

Thank you for shutting that faggot up with his bad math.

>> No.56004994

With psykers you're limited to one of each power per phase, the opponent can deny, and even on a 4+ power it's still possible to brick your roll.

>> No.56005003



>> No.56005008

>Commissars aren't /tg/ memes.

They didn't used to be, but recent GW fluff makes them that way.

Also, we've had retard commissars forever. Why do think certain regiments like Catachans have such a high "accident" rate for theirs? It's because there were commissars who heard a word other than "advance and die for the emperor" and quickly earned a knife in the back.

>Leman Russes
I think you mean punishers. Most of the russ variants really aren't that bad.

Especially now that eldar tanks have the same ability.

>> No.56005012

Just take one maxed out conscript squad and two infantry squads as tax, you should be minimizing the number of troops you take to get better units on the field anyway.

>> No.56005024

>be me
>play orks since 3rd ed, 20,000+ points of converted literal retards.
>try and play in my area with stygies admech, ravenguard marines, alpha legion chaos, some faggot eldar player talking about how he is finally painting his eldar, blue no suprise, and fucking death guard whom converted 3 blight haulers to have a blanket -1 all around.

is GW seriously this fucking retarded. I might as well rip half my index out and throw it in the garbage. Also fuck you powergaming faggots.

I pray to gork and mork orks get some rule that says their shooting cant be modified. Its just fucking garbage.

>> No.56005025

>Especially now that eldar tanks have the same ability.
Only one tank, and it's really only good because of the Stratagem.

>> No.56005030


Yeah, that's the conclusion I'm drifting towards, as well. Commissars are quite decent when surrounded by 3 conscripts units, since they reduce morale losses on all of them automatically.

If you only have 1 conscript unit, psykers are better.

If you have 2 units...that's kind of a gray area. Two astropaths is 41 points, just 11 more and you ignore ALL morale, plus take away enemy cover from shooting. That's probably a better bet.

>> No.56005039

>you're limited to one of each power per phase
So it's good for one blob, and you have Pietrov's Mk45 for the other, and Draconian Disciplinarian for a 3rd. 90 Conscripts safe before the Commissar nerf even comes into effect.
>the opponent can deny
They will never be in range unless you're retarded, not even if they're GK.
>and even on a 4+ power it's still possible to brick your roll
You have a mere 1/12 chance of failing to cast a WC4 power, and even if you somehow do, you would reroll it with one of your infinite CP. The chance of failure is incredibly unlikely to the point that it is in fact one of the most reliable powers in the game.

Stay salty though, your tears sustain me and your bad math and poor grasp of the rules amuses me.

>> No.56005040

is pic related your model?
Cause its fucking dope

>> No.56005041

I fucking told everyone that THE NEXT CODEX WILL BE BETTER, but God forbid people play the army they like.

>> No.56005044

>and fucking death guard whom converted 3 blight haulers to have a blanket -1 all around.
Blight Haulers don't give a -1 to hit, that guy lied to you.

Also if you're playing Orks and relying entirely on shooting I don't know what to tell you, get fucking good, you're not a shooty race.

>> No.56005055

>Sees Commissar Nerf
Eh. I'll just take more infantry. Catachans are already Ld 8 anyways.
>Is reminded of this

Yes, internal balancing does mean more to me than overall power level. I remain more pissed off at this once thing than anything else.

>> No.56005065

Wait til Tyranids come out and you literally cannot hit them at all.

>Two astropaths is 41 points, just 11 more and you ignore ALL morale
You can only cast the same power once per phase, and have a chance to fail.

>> No.56005066

The problem with your logic is that it only considers the leadership change that commissars provide, and not superior alternatives that can do the same thing.

For instance, it's now more cost effective to have the leadership buffs with command squads and OFFICIO PREFECTUS COMMAND TANK stratagems. Particularly the stratagem.

Further, your logic ignores the effect on the rest of the army. A commissar will only boost infantry squads and scion leadership by 1 as long as both squads have a scout seargeant. Which means for those squads, commissars are 30 points spent on no net effect. Again, the stratagem becomes more cost effective.

The changes that have happened with commissars have made it so that IG armies will trend even further towards the monobuild of tanks and scions. Woohoo I guess?

>> No.56005070


Oh yeah, you can only cast the same power once per phase...thanks for reminding me, you can tell how often I use psykers.

I mean, it kind of hurts to see this commissar change, but that's probably just my bias since I don't like scions? I'll take a wait and see attitude before I pass judgment.

>> No.56005075

>you're ignoring all cases where the re-roll saves you from failing
and you're ignoring all the cases where you roll a 1 still fail shoot a guy and reroll the morale test
>besides the ld buff
did i fucking mention the leadership buff ? i said his execution is worse than no execution, which is mathematically correct
the average of 2d6 choosing the lowest +1 is 3.53 which is alread yworse than average , but it's not like that you have to shoot someone regardless of if you fail or not. regardless if you rolled a 2 or a 6 on that morale test , if you fail you're rerolling it .
his ld buff is a moot point on infantry squads cause the execution costs you a guy anyway and he only has 1ld more

>> No.56005087

>All these people wanting to start/improve their GK
What fucking bizzaro world did I phase into? Today and yesterday I've seen the most posting about GK strategy and being overall more positive oriented posting about them.

Are we really not as bad as it seems?

>> No.56005092


you still havent filed the chaos symbols off some of those lads

>> No.56005095

Only the Triarch Stalker is the decent one, and its for Targeting Relay.

As for Heavy Destroyers (assuming a squad of three), you get a 36 inch range Lascannons for 225 points that will get insta-gibbed immediately due to prevalence of multi-damage weapons. Reanimation protocols does dick all if the entire squad is dead. Although we could use that stratagem that GW FB gave us for 4cp....fuck that

>> No.56005103

Try being tau.

>tau are a shooting race
>our basic troops can't even hit eldar fliers or rangers anymore.

>> No.56005107

Pietrov's Mk45 will work for anything within 6" of him, not just a single unit. It makes your company commander a literal old commissar.

Vallhallan conscripts will become the new TFG move, mark my words. It's not really changed anything other than meaning that the IG player doesn't have as many fallback plans.

>> No.56005110


and I'm not going to, because I am lazy. Come at me, bro

>> No.56005115

Yeah, I'm just wondering if it's a straight up "don't modify unit's Ld. to be 8, just use this model's Ld. instead of the unit's" vs. "unit's Ld. is buffed up to this model's Ld." to which you could add additional buffs. Ld. 10 conscripts seem a bit over the top.

I guess one could just field combined Catachan infantry squads with officer and flag instead of conscripts.

>> No.56005120


I absolutely cannot wait to annihilate that commander with an Autarch and laugh when the whole thing goes to shit.

>> No.56005123

>and you're ignoring all the cases where you roll a 1 still fail shoot a guy and reroll the morale test
Which are fine because that's fluffy, and the Commissars general leadership buff still more than counterbalances that in terms of average morale casualties reduced.

>did i fucking mention the leadership buff ? i said his execution is worse than no execution, which is mathematically correct
Except you only have the execution inside the Leadership buff bubble, so it doesn't fucking matter, faggot, they come together.

>> No.56005128

So what is the best way to run an army with 2-3 Knights as the core?

Admech tech-priests for repair and stratagems? Is there anything else that can buff knights?

>> No.56005132

>owns 20,000+ points
>apparently incapable of making a melee-centric list out of his collection
Doesn't add up, cap'n.

>> No.56005141

>his ld buff is a moot point on infantry squads cause the execution costs you a guy anyway and he only has 1ld more
It only costs you a guy if you were failing in the first place, which is what he already fucking did, reduce Morale casualties to just 1. Not 0. If the re-roll then causes you to pass, you only lost one guy, the same as before the nerf.

I don't understand what is difficult about this for you. Having a commissar is strictly better than not having a commissar.

>> No.56005144

>be cobranon
>get my single squad of conscripts finished converting literally two nights ago
>this happens

>> No.56005145

Where he then starts spamming Iron resolve, Insane Bravery, and takes half casualties from battleshock.

It's not as OP as they were, but it's still the most cost efficient screen you can get in the game.

>> No.56005146

>What happened with conquerors?

Basically cheaper MBT with 24" less range.

>> No.56005147

>gets empirically proven wrong
>y-your math is narrow and subjective!
So this is what it's like to see a man BTFO'd.

>> No.56005148


admech can spend CP to have canticles affect knights too. Allows for always counting in cover, rerolling 1's in fight/shooting or +1 S

>> No.56005150


So morale officers are more necessary for untrained militia and green troops who will run away at the first sign of trouble, than for full-time soldiers? Makes sense to me.

>wasting command points on a commissar tank

>> No.56005163

What are some ways to give the 30k iron warrior battle automata a grey knight flavor?

I love the models and want to use them as dreadknights since i cant stand the way baby carriers look

>> No.56005169

the standard and other benefits do not stack with commissars in any ways. Note the commissar ability says "use HIS leadership" so it doesn't matter if you got plus 30 leadership, the commissar ability still gives you leadership 8.

>> No.56005179

Eh...maybe? Positioning would make that difficult, as would the commander's increased health and invuln save.
>Hides behind a wall. Becomes invincible.
>Hides behind a tank. Becomes invincible
>Hides behind a particularly fat Orgyn. Invincible.

>> No.56005180

sadly no, best models i ever made were these 2.

>> No.56005181

>wasting points on a commissar when you could just buff a tank you were already using to be better.

>> No.56005195

dakkajets, kannons and a very few other options are our best shooting units. I dont think I should be punished for wanting a LITTLE shooting.

>> No.56005196

Will this IG memeing stop once the Eldar codex drops?

>> No.56005201

I have to admit those are rad as fuck, though.

>> No.56005204

>doesn't just make infantry squads and combine them with some CP

>> No.56005205


>Is on a jetbike

Problem solved.


Requires the use of CP - which granted AM get more of than most but it is still a resource and each can only be used once per phase.

>> No.56005208

Oh yeah I completely forgot ogryn bodyguards, thanks for reminding me

making said tank even bigger target when there are no ways to hide it

>> No.56005214

a squad of 20 doesn't fit in a chimaera.

>> No.56005215

>That Mecha Gigga SQUIG
Zog me zats booteful'

>> No.56005221

You can have a little shooting, just get within 12".

Dakkajets in particular should have no problem doing this. Also Raven Guard and Alpha Legion don't benefit from the -1 on stuff like tanks, for example.

>> No.56005222

Considering the wash that was 7th, and the ever-present shitflinging in our general direction courtesy of 1d4memespouting autists, GK players like you and I have learned to appreciate the little things. Our codex is probably the worst codex there currently is, but it's still an improvement on the index which was, itself, an improvement on 7th edition.

GK players right now are at home in the casual meta, bringing interesting and balanced lists that are fun to play and play against. Luckily for them this will always be the dream meta for any player that doesn't have an inferiority complex. The best games happen here.

So quality of life is generally pretty good.

>> No.56005224

No, there's room for two armies to bitch (see: taudar). Once Tau codex drops though...

>> No.56005228


You didn't paint the white stripes on their helmets, you can just run them as regular infantry if conscripts are no longer flavor of the month

>> No.56005232

>The first time an Astra Militarum unit fails a Morale test during the Morale phase whilst it is within 6" of any friendly Commissars, one model of your choice in that unit is slain and the Morale test is re-rolled (do not include this slain model when re-rolling the Morale test).’
>The first time
I hadn't paid attention to this. Does this mean that the rule only applies once to each unit?

>> No.56005238

It's stopping today because the FAQ fixed the worst abuses. No more Take Cover on Vehicles and no more conshits immune to Morale for ezpz.

>> No.56005241

Neither do those conscripts, so what exactly are you complaining about?

>> No.56005245

Orky as fuck
those look great

>> No.56005247

>plays evil suns
>has a total of about 80 regular boyz who always went in trukks with power klaw nobs, now those trukks are 2x as many points, neutering my all in your face by turn 2 army.

Even if I were to buy more boyz, with my 15 trukks and 5 battlewagons, 3 koptas for transports I dont have the numbers to make a difference because they are so fucking expensive transport wise.

>> No.56005248

So without Commissars, command tanks, morale buffs, all that stuff, are Conscripts still worth a damn as meatshields? 60 to 90 half-morale Valhallans sitting in front of an Admech or Guard tank line is still an excellent bullet sponge as far as I can tell for only 210/330 points respectively, and the latter also brings 3CP for around the same cost as a pack of Electros or two tanks.

>> No.56005251

>You didn't paint the white stripes on their helmets
I was told it went on their shoulderpads.

>> No.56005257

>guardfags told me that Chapter approved wouldn't nerf conscripts and IG come Christmas when I said I'd drink his tears when that happens
It's literally like Christmas come early

>> No.56005259


>Command tank
The issue there is that you are now sinking CP into something instead of paying the 30 points. That's an alternative which may or may not be a good one depending on the context and how your army is built. Really, that's flexibility, not redundancy.

>the rest of the army
Never needed Commissars. Unit sizes are so much smaller and leadership so much higher in even baseline infantry squads that there was never a need to use commissars on them anyway. They are there to keep recruits in line, not hardened infantry.

>more tank and scion lists
I admit conscripts became less optimal, which means conscripts get better at their expense. I'm not a fan, either, especially given that infantry got no buffs at all, but it's not the end of the world.

>> No.56005260

>tallarn models
Gimme, Chinamans mold is fucking shitting out trash half the time with mold slips

>> No.56005261

ayyy paranatural

>> No.56005263

I'm trying to decide A) on how much I like guardians and B) if I do like them should I run them 20 strong?

You can only take a moral check once per phase afaik so I think its there as a just in case clause.

>> No.56005268

I used the conscripts and infantry squads for different purposes.

>> No.56005272

And here I was worried about using Tallarn since it seemed too good not to. Hold me /tg/

>> No.56005273

Per Morale phase, yes.

>> No.56005277

I think it means each Morale phase. Pretty sure it's future-proofing for abilities that make you have to take Morale tests twice in the same turn.

>> No.56005282


Not really, because you double your shooting casualties with morale losses. Every dead conscript is a loss of 6 points and 2 models, every dead infantry is probably only 4 points and 1 model. You need the Ld synergy to make them worth it, or you need to be Valhallan.

>> No.56005288

That's not what it says. You don't do multiple test on a single moral phase

>> No.56005289

i really really like the right one.

>> No.56005294

You make the tank that was the smallest threat a commissar tank, not the command tank with all sponsons ordering himself about.

>> No.56005295

Yes, they are. That's why they were broken before the FAQ.

Now Brimstones are the worst offenders, and I'm pretty sure they're due for more nerfs in CA.

>> No.56005299

They lose their reroll to hit?

>> No.56005303

Take the conscripts you made, make them into infantry squads, use the combined squad stratagem to turn them into a 20 model infantry squad with better stats, Ld., ability to take orders, etc., use that as your "conscript" squad. Sure, you're limited to 20 model units, but better than nothing.

>> No.56005310

How would you write it if you could only use it once though?

>> No.56005312


>> No.56005313

that means another afternoon of repainting them though

fuck my lazy ass.

>> No.56005315


I don't mind brims as much because I can in fact make them take morale casualties.

>> No.56005319



>> No.56005321

Command points are pretty cheap, especially if you're setting up the typical bunker with the russ and a screening conscript unit.

The real problem with the nerf is still that having Summary Execution on a model is strictly worse than not having it at all. It betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of probability, and makes me think that an intern just slapped this change into the pdf without actually running any numbers.

Which is a terrifying fucking thought for future "balancing".

>> No.56005322

Alaitocfag here. Here's hoping GW nerfs us too. I don't want to be associated with waacfags.

I started CWE right when the index came out, so most of my shit is still unpainted, too. Goddamnit.

>> No.56005327

But 36'' can only be contested by other 36'' weaponry most of the time, which is nice, and using other units to screen is also an option.

>That god damn Strat will be in the codex, just you wait.

>> No.56005328

Seems so. But their gun got a lot better. If I were a total asshole, I'd just use Conquerors and Annihilators.

>> No.56005330

The first time an Astra Militarum unit fails a Morale test during the battle

>> No.56005331

My problem is firing efficiency. Once people realize they can kill 7 infantrymen and the remaining HWT and Sargant will statistically flee, it's going to be much more difficult getting them to overkill.

>> No.56005334



I agree it sucks that Ork shooting is going to be useless against Alaitoc with Conceal or camo cloak snipers, it kind of reduces some of the unit options in your army.

What about choppa+slugga and burna boyz mobs? A horde with lots of melee or flamer attacks that is fearless until it gets down to its last few models should still be good, the way this edition works?

>> No.56005342

Valhallans make them alright. Otherwise Conscripts are "why don't you just take more infantry faggot and be a better bullet sponge" tier.

>> No.56005348

Why would you give that shitter attention?

>> No.56005350

I literally don't believe you.

>> No.56005354

They were delusional of they did not see this coming.

>> No.56005362


You are not taking into account the fact that the commissar confers his leadership bubble to the unit. The BLAM casualty and the leadership buff are a packaged deal, you can't examine one without the other.

As I said here >>56004900 even with the extra execution loss, commissars confer net positive value to their units.

>> No.56005370

>The real problem with the nerf is still that having Summary Execution on a model is strictly worse than not having it at all.
No it's not, we've gone over this many times, you've been BTFO by multiple people who can do math better than you, and even IF you were correct, the leadership buff alone from commissars means at worst summary execution just mitigates that bonus, with a net gain of still preventing more morale casualties while having a commissar around than not having a commissar around, so stop being stupid. Not every ability in the game is supposed to be a positive.

>> No.56005375

It will not be nerfed. They are not going to get rid of the -1 to hit tactics.

>> No.56005381

Anon, that's irrelevant to the analysis. You can examine one without the other, because there are units in the IG codex that can give comparable or better leadership buffs than the commissar without the tax of summary execution.

>> No.56005389

>tfw your WAACfag friend argues against you and proclaims how great a strat it is.
>tfw he won't admit that it's difficult to even reach 4 cp with crons in small games.
>tfw the same exact thing can be accomplished for either 25 points, or using a single transport.

>> No.56005391

>Otherwise Conscripts are "why don't you just take more infantry faggot and be a better bullet sponge" tier.
Conscripts in Commissar bubble are as durable to morale as Infantry in a Commissar bubble, while costing 1 less ppm. So they're still better bullet sponges.

>> No.56005398

>sadly no, best models i ever made were these 2.
right and propa orky

>> No.56005401

I bet you like random stats for chaos you moron.

>> No.56005408

>You can examine one without the other, because there are units in the IG codex that can give comparable or better leadership buffs than the commissar without the tax of summary execution.
Such as? What other units can give +4 or +5 leadership?

>> No.56005434

2 CP can make any leman russ (which isn't a tax, you were taking them anyways) into a 5 LD buff for conscripts.

>> No.56005441

>be shit in 7th
>8th ed index comes out, are one of the worst armies, but still not as bad as 7th
>codex releases, have the competetively weakest codex, along with it having even less effort put into it than admech, but its still actually an improvement over the index

Pretty much what>>56005222 said

>> No.56005450

So now you have the option of spending 2 CP or 30 points, and one of those isn't vulnerable to getting raped off the board by AT weapons turn 1.

>> No.56005451

While it is way too expensive to see general play, I will concede it is a good option to have.

The opponent removes your last real threat, and you can threaten to put the entire squad back up. Maybe even at a 4+ with your cryptek.

Not gonna say it's great, but options are pretty cool to have.

>> No.56005473


No, their aren't perfect alternatives. Psykers can only use the morale power once per phase, limiting them to one squad per turn and that's at the opportunity cost of psychic barrier or smite.

The commissar tank costs CP, which means its opportunity cost is defensive gunners, aerial spotter, an extra relic, two extra rerolls, or anything else you can get with 2 CP.

The commissar fills a niche role as a cheap morale buffing battery that gets most return on investment when surrounded by lots of low Ld units, and he does it for 30 points and 0 CP, 0 psychic tests. Your psyker is now free to cast +1 save or -1 to hit on your conscripts instead and they won't take morale losses.

>> No.56005476

One of them isn't vulnerable to getting raped off the board by snipers/alpha strikers turn 1.

Your point? I'd rather spend the CP now than get a far less effective 30 point tax.

>> No.56005477

>>That god damn Strat will be in the codex, just you wait.
I suspect it will be, but they'll reduce the cost to 3CP.

That, combined with abilities to gain more CP, combined with points cuts, should help a lot, before even accounting for Dynasty traits and other shit like that.

>> No.56005490

Remember Astropaths can and should drop their melee weapon to go down to 15 ppm.

>> No.56005497

That's wrong you retard. Holy shit, do guardfags even know their own rules? first the retard who claimed only lord commies give their LD and now this.
>guardfags tried to claim that their the only ones who play the game
Who's laughing now?

>> No.56005498

Snipers are a lot harder to field than anti-tank.

Every army has stuff that can gut a russ turn 1. Not everyone has access to cost-effective snipers, not to mention it's easier to just hide a Commissar out of LoS than a fucking tank.

>> No.56005517

Leave the conshitter crybaby to throw his tantrum in this thread and move on already.

>> No.56005528


I don't think you can do that, anon. They come with a force stave, it's not optional, is it?

>checks book
>this model may replace stave with laspistol

Holy shit, thank you for saving me 6 points in every game I ever play

>> No.56005536

>"having a commissar is worse for your morale than not having one!"
>no it's not, here's rules you ignored and math proving you wrong
>"I-I wasn't talking about those rules!"


>> No.56005548

My problem with it is that it's single use, as in, you can only purchase it once per game. Why would they even put such a fucktarded handicap on it? The orb does the same thing and has the same restriction because it is a physical object you pay for. But a stratagem?

Plus, the post it originated from seems more like a "lolfuckcrons" than it is a legitmate answer.

>> No.56005599


>> No.56005600

Commissar boosts morale in general(4->9), making you decidedly less likely to fail in the first place AND gives you the ability to reroll if you fail at all. If you don't fail the commissar has saved you models. If you do fail, and he forces a roll of 1 into a six (worst possible scenario) you are losing a net of 1 extra guy thanks to the reroll.


is the only roll that results in increased casualties (by one at that)


result in fewer casualties.

Ergo Commissar reroll results in fewer casualties than it creates assuming that all rolls result in failure.

>> No.56005650


Commissars are Ld 8, Lords are 9, senpai. Otherwise that's basically what >>56004900 said.

>> No.56005829

>still arguing about the leadership buff.

No anon. Reread the post you responded to.

Further, let's examine your math.
If you need to roll a 1 to pass a check, and you roll a 2, commissars will now increase your casualties on any reroll of a 3, 4, 5, or 6. (ignoring the extra guy that the commissar has just shot). I could go through the whole list, but just demonstrating 4 extra rolls that you didn't take into account should be enough to show your math is shit.
Remember, the commissar reroll is not optional. It's mandatory.

>> No.56005851

Uh. An orb lets you reroll failed RP rolls.
Doesn't do jack shit if the entire squad gets deleted since there will be no RP rolls.
>The strat comes into play here.

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