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[ERROR] No.55937955 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Stories where your players practically invited death.

>players challenge an NPC to russian roulette
>NPC is supposed to be more than a bit insane with a god complex, and a gambling addict, the players don't know that
>the players try and rile him up
>he shouts at the players "You call me a coward and yet stand there as the fearful. I am no coward. Luck is always on my side for I am the chosen of fate."
>picks up the gun and holds it to his temple.
>say he pulls the trigger three times
>I secretly roll what chamber the bullet is in (it was the 5th)
>players call bullshit and get pissed when he doesn't get shot in the head
>tell him it was literally a coin flip chance
>NPC puts down the gun "Are you as favored as I?"
>players want to wave their big dicks around, one of the PCs grabs the gun
>I roll secretly what chamber the bullet is in (roll a 1)
>player pulls the trigger and shoots himself in the head, falls over dead
>NPC just starts to laugh because to him this is just confirmation of what he's been saying.
>players get royally pissed

They're the ones who challenged him to russian roulette. I don't even feel bad.

>> No.55938141

> how Russian roulette works
> this
Pick one

>> No.55938194

Did the player spin the chamber after grabbing it? If not, the bullet should still be in the 5th chamber (so second trigger pull by the time the PC has it).

>> No.55938229

They spun the chamber again so I rerolled.

>> No.55938256

I was gonna ask this. Seriously, if you're going to do Russian roulette, have everyone state in which order they're gonna hand the gun around, how many times everyone's gonna pull the trigger, if the person will spin the chamber, and then roll for each spin so nobody bitches out. If anyone blows their brains out you can stop and make adjustments from there.

>> No.55938401

you cant roll secretly on these case. make him pick a number and if he rolls it he is dead. roll in the open.

>> No.55938424

Also, roll in the open, fuckface. If someone gets shot, you'll know.

>> No.55938483

Why would he not spin the chamber?

>> No.55940744

You are all retarded. If you don't want to die from bullet to the head, don't play a fucking Russian roulette.

It should be secret, no fucking rolling in the open. If, for instance, he told the number that player needs to roll to shoot himself, it would mean that his character was forced into spinning the chamber every time he wants to shoot. That's disgustingly stupid.

Trust your fucking GM or don't play with him.

>> No.55940829

A character died last session because he went behind enemy lines and didn't retreat when he should have.

>> No.55943755

>Rolling an instant death die in secret

Are you retarded?

>> No.55945210

>New guy has his 3rd session
>He has his first battle with us and felt like he was capable of wandering around alone
> "Kek, no anon, don't do it"
>Gets mad and does it anyway
>lvl 7 ranger wandering around in a game he has almost no experience
>ambushed by hunters in a forest we told him was dangerous because BBEG troops were in that zone
>almost dead, makes a soul contract with the leader of the hunters to be able to survive the encounter, forcing him to cooperate with the BBEG
>In the previous session, he also made a soul contract with a dragon king, which was also the king of my PC
>that escalated quickly
>my PC ended up killing him because said dragon king was pissed off and my head was going to be chopped out if I didn't killed him

>> No.55945841

Only War? What kind of regiment?

>> No.55946039

From the perspective of the players:
>I challenge him to russian roulette, calling him a chicken if he doesn't
>"the man laughs and picks up a gun from the counter, pulling the trigger three times at his head with a confident grin. It doesn't go off"
>bullshit, roll that
>"I did in secret, it was in the fifth chamber"
>whatever man, you could have made that up but fine
>I spin the chamber and put it to my head too, pulling the trigger once
>"the gun goes off, you die. The man laughs at your attempt as you fall to the ground"
>you didn't even roll for it
>"I did in secret, it was in the first chamber this time"
>bullshit you just made that up
>"no I didn't I rolled it in secret, it was fair"
>fuck you

>> No.55946076

How would you not know someone is rolling die, unless you're fucking deaf?

>> No.55946108

If you don't trust your GM to roll dice in secret without purposefully trying to kill you, WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU WILLINGLY START A GAME OF RUSSIAN ROULETTE

>> No.55946148


How many chambers did the gun have? Was it a 5 chamber or 6 chamber revolver? Like if it's a 5 chamber revolver then that's like a 20% chance of death, pretty high odds for PERMANENT DEATH. Like what, 16% for a 6 chambered revolver?

>> No.55946170

>This specific monster is 40ft tall, violent, eats people among other things, has fast ranged attacks, and is generally difficult to escape from. The players know this.

>As you enter the large clearing, on the other side in the distance you recognize the monster, hunched over, apparently eating. It is not directly facing you. What do you do?
>"We stop moving and wait."
>"We're going to wait and see."
>Are you sure?
>Okay. The monster finishes eating about a minute later, stands up to full hieght, and as it looks around you feel it's gaze fall to you. Roll initiative.

>> No.55946260

>Not trusting your GM
You're either in a shit group or a shit person. Either way you shouldn't continue to play.

>> No.55946280

>In Russian Roulette

>> No.55946289

The point is that, from the player's perspective, the GM could have just arbitrarily decided when the gun went off and when it didn't, and only rolled the die behind his screen as a formality. It doesn't matter whether the GM was actually being fair with it or not, but bad dice rolls resulted in group drama solely because the dice were hidden.

Avoid group drama. Roll your dice in public unless it's actually a roll they shouldn't see.

>> No.55946383

This came up in my game. How i did it:

>roll d6 secretly to determine the chamber
>write it down on piece of paper, folded and put in middle of table under the book
>gun gets passed around clockwise
>eventually reach the PC
>he is number 4
>player gets pissed
>unfold paper
>paper says 4

And thats how the arguement went.

>> No.55946384


Clearly he re-spun.

>> No.55946405

Because that's not how you play Russian roulette.

>> No.55946424

For the record, i told them it was a dumb idea, and that it was 2 npcs vs 4 PCs, and i even let them make an initial check to try to get a hint to the chamber.

>> No.55946476

>The group closet psychopath impulsively attempts murder on a jerk merchant
>Paladin hears the ruckus, and enters the shop
>Blocks his killing blow
>Merchant escapes, calls guards
>Party steps aside and let's the guards attempt arrest
>"I resist arrest"

Basically the guards murderraped this guy and he got pissed nobody helped him.

What makes it worse is he kept saying his alignment was Chaotic Neutral as if that excuses attempted murder over a mild snarky insult.

>> No.55946495

ITT: bad GM backpedals after the thread calls him out

>> No.55946691

A year ago or so:

>Enemy summons crystal spider which draws explosive runes, maximum of 3
>Said enemy remains hidden following the PCs from a distance while the spider is meant to blow them
>PCs start noticing things being desintegrated and at one moment the pants of one of them explode wounded him severely
>PCs retreat to a nearby town to heal the wounded and try to spot the threat
>Notice the runes and discover their effect with a roll
>During the run one of them sees that he has a rune on his body
>OK I use my ki power to hit myself with a lightning
>you mean the rune?
>Death assured

>> No.55946759


Oh man I have a friend like this.

>> No.55946776

Low magic 3.5 - Despite this, one member of our party has acquired a level in cleric causing him to be Ranger 4 / Cleric 1 (with a BAB of +4, the Combat Expertise Feat and the Improved Unarmed Strike Feat - these become important later). Other characters were unaware of his ability to cast spells. The player of this guy is known for "rollplaying" as opposed to "roleplaying" and sometimes making awful decisions through a twisted logic that none of us have followed.

We're outside of a large tree house protected by a Dire Bear. It's not charging us but it is approaching and appears to be protecting the tree house. We back away slowly. Eventually it's in melee with said Ranger/Cleric and myself (a fighter). It doesn't attack but stands on its hind legs and roars.

I take this as a sign it just wants us gone so I oblige. Total Defense (+4 Dodge bonus to AC) and move back 30 feet. This would provoke an attack of opportunity from the Dire Bear but it chooses not to take it, solidifying my assumption.

The Ranger/Cleric goes next.
Turn 1
DM: What do you do?
Player: I use my animal domain power to Speak with animals. "What do you want, bear?"
DM:: The bear lets out another fierce roar yelling "LEAVE"! No other players can understand it. In fact, to all of you it appears that he is simply speaking nonsense to a roaring bear.
Turn 2
Player: Um...I punch the bear. I use combat expertise to dump my max BAB (4) to AC (+4). (Some math happens. Player hit, did a paltry amount of damge (4, maybe?)). Okay, now with my higher AC I move away 30 feet!

At this point everyone is staring at him open-jawed. The DM then describes the bear taking the provoked attack of opportunity, easily hitting because it's a dire bear and initiating a grapple it could not lose with improved grab.

From our characters' perspective while we made a break for it, he babbled some nonsense, tried to speak to a bear, was roared at, and finally punched the bear before being taken to pieces.

>> No.55946815

>gets told to leave
>already saw someone leave without being attacked
>decides to punch the Dire Bear anyway

>> No.55946859



>> No.55946912

In the future, for instant death rolls, he just needs to roll in the open instead of secretly.

Lesson learned. Forgive and forget. Not a big deal

>> No.55947082


If you and me played Russian Roulette for real, are you going to know which chbe the bullet is in? No. Why should the players then? All I'm seeing is an excuse to metagame

>> No.55947119

>Roll your dice in public unless it's actually a roll they shouldn't see.
Like a roll to determine which chamber the bullet is in when they're playing Russian roulette? Seems to me they shouldn't see that one, especially if it gets rolled before the player takes his action as the OP seems to imply. If the die was cast AFTER the player said "I pull the trigger", then yeah, I see no problem with rolling in the open.

>> No.55947123

Not in the case of Russian-Fucking-Roulette where you don't know where the bullet even is. That's the point

>> No.55947534

What did we do to anger you so badly that you would inflict this picture on us Anon? Why do you hate us so?

>> No.55947667

Take you collectivist bullmess somewheres else. I'd yank that Nubian goddess's nappy-ass head around and use it as a handle.

>> No.55948159

Had a team of players that infiltrated an enemy Super Dreadnought. We're talking a starship the size of Rhode Island, man, like you need cars and shit to get around. So my players jack a few of the response strike team's vehicles to cruise around in and head for the nearest drive core. They meet some resistance along the way but their combat cars are tough and armed, so it's not really that bad for them.

Cut to them at the drive core. They rig it to explode, dead man's switch. Begin negotiations with the captain over vidcoms. Threaten to blow the ship if the captain doesn't give them a ship and safe passage. Captain laughs, makes a crack about not negotiating with terrorists and jettisons the core.

>> No.55948327

Did they know that a core can be jettisoned?

>> No.55948466

I have no idea what setting you're talking about, but wouldn't jettisoning something called a "Drive core" result in pretty fucking bad consequences to the ship in question? Like a car jettisoning its engine.

>> No.55948650

Yeah. Their first ship had suffered critical damage to the core during a battle and they'd been forced to drop it (in the face of their enemy).

Setting is a homebrew running in the Stars Without Number system with a few tweaks. Dropping a core is a big deal, but ships have spares and will only be on emergency backup power for a turn or two (5 to 10 minutes). Military ships usually have multiple drive cores for redundancy and additional power requirements.

They knew all of this, but figured they could intimidate the captain into giving in to their demands before a system specifically designed to get a supercritical exotic matter bomb out of the ship could do its job.

>> No.55948855

And all the players see is an excuse for the DM to arbitrarily decide who to die.

>> No.55948881

If you think the DM will just randomly kill you, you're either being an asshole or the DM is. Stop playing with them.

>> No.55948932

So he didn't follow your script and you killed him bravo truly an amazing simulation I'm sure

Whenever a GM boasts about fucking over a player for not obeying his gay script it makes me cringe. Just make it so he wanders into something mildly interesting and has to make a roll or two, then he'll go back to the group happy.

>> No.55948948

>All of two people "call him out on it"
>Most of the thread argues against people saying he should roll in the open
>For Russian fucking roulette
I think the OP said it best: If you don't want to get shot, don't play Russian Roulette, you retard.

>> No.55948964

I don't see anything about the GM backpedaling, only idiots bitching because he rolled in secret.

>> No.55949082

What system?

>> No.55949222

No, the image was just because. It was in Legend of the 5 Rings

>> No.55949272

>a small village near a forest is infested by forest bandits
>group of 4 ronins find out about the bandits
>making plans on how to most effectively murderhobo
>eventually, talks of scouting out the village begin
>ronin shugenja volunteers to go
>rest of the ronin wait at the edge of the forest to keep an escape route ready for him with bows
>ronin shugenja gets into the village unnoticed
>after a while of observing, a few bandits leave a house
>bandit leader, who was with them, rolls well and notices shugenja who rolled poorly
>initiative is rolled
>shugenja lights himself on fire with magic (doesn't damage him, only damages enemies)
>the enemies get in melee range
>he attacks them with dragon breath, nails all of them
>doesn't do a lot of damage
>bandits hack at him
>does more damage to him
>but eventually dies

That's my most recent memory of someone who had a deathwish

>> No.55949307

Yeah the DM should've just run a separate solo campaign for the guy who decided to go off on his own while the other players just watched.

>> No.55949330

To contain the Thrill of the Player, the roll should be hidden but he can choose a fellow pc he trusts to overwatch the dm. No bullshitting and thrill

>> No.55949642

>muh script

If it wasn't shit the player wouldn't try escaping it to begin with. Either way it's your fault.

>> No.55949662

If you actually played any RPGs you'd know that the first rule is never split the party.

>> No.55949705

>a trope for lazy GMs exists
>I better choose the shittiest way to punish players for trying to have a moment of fun

Or you could gently guide him back to the group and continue. But nah, your story is so cool I'm impressed that you punished that player can I come play at your game please?

>> No.55949731

What is your pic from

>> No.55949737

>a player is acting like an idiot, therefore the GM must be railroading
The GM may or may not have been doing something wrong, but you're still retarded.

>> No.55949747

Mount and Blade.

>> No.55949771

It's only "acting like an idiot" if your feeble brain is incapable of thinking of something interesting to happen so you just kill the character instead

Stop pretending that your gay autistic script has any validity, it's obvious that you just punish things you dislike

>> No.55949772

That's stupid, if he retreats he goes deeper into enemy lines

>> No.55949786

Thing is, the party way unseen in front of the enemy lines and would have killed key people in the defenses so he would have been able to escape.

>> No.55949791

>everyone who disagrees with me is the same person
How does it feel to know that you're both retarded AND delusional? Going to a dangerous place alone and with no support is, in fact, acting like an idiot. You can argue about whether he should've gotten killed or not, but he was still acting like an idiot.

>> No.55949813

>PC doesn't retire to be a farmer

>> No.55949828

Sure. While I'm at it, why don't I gently reach down between his legs and stroke his scrotum while telling him what a special boy he is?

>> No.55949836

...Again it's only "dangerous" because your lazy and arbitrary script declares it so. It could just as easily be a strange, challenging, but manageable location where some small accomplishment could be had.

... If you weren't lazily punishing players that is.

>> No.55949854

>shitty, entitled player who thinks the GM is his slave
No one wants you in his game.

>> No.55949857

>player pisses off royally a master jewelcrafter that he needs to deal with because he has the skills to work on a giant rough gemstone he found
>players find out he has a son that turned to crime, start looking for him hoping to redeem him and gain the merchant's favors
>while traveling on a road where many bandit attacks have been reported (including sightings of the merchant's son in this band of bandits), yo and behold the merchant's son running on the road scared shitless with clothes ripped and claw and bite marks on his body, screaming about monsters
>they try to calm him, and after a good intimidation he stops screaming and flailing
>not long after a band of 4 goblins come down the road and meet the party, see the merchant's son (who is now screaming and trying to run away) and demand they give them to him because they have unfinished business as the guy tried to assault and rob the goblin party along with his ruffian gang
>players say no, because the right way to handle this situation is to bring the boy to justice and other righteous bullshit
>one of them starts boasting about goblins being little shits and that the party pretty much massacred a goblin village in the mountains (the goblins are actually coming from the village, since they wanted to massacre that goblin village first, you'll understand why)
>culminates with the goblins giving them a last chance to hand over the boy, they refuse (in addition the wizard felt magic emanating from the goblins) and attack
>the goblins transform into barghests and the PCs realize their grave mistake, the barghests give them 2 more chances to cease this fight in exchange for the boy and one of their souls
>they of course refuse, and it ends up with a last stand between the cleric and one barghest, the cleric is on death's door and strikes a desperate deal with the barghest, giving away the souls of his incapacitated party members (Lawful Good Life Cleric by the way), and an additional soul in 7 days

>> No.55949871

>never split the party
I hate this shit, I can understand it from a gaming point of view, but from a narrative point is stupid, sometimes you need to have someone be the bait, or have someone stall the enemies while the rest saves the innocents, eacape, whatever. I hate the "players go together in a 2x2 squares formation and gangbang every enemy ever"

>> No.55949885

>the GM should rewrite large parts of the setting because a player happens to be an idiot
You're just an entitled piece of shit.

>> No.55949889


Opinion... disregarded.........

>> No.55949891

Oh trust me, I wouldn't go near autistic GM like yourself, and if I do I'm perfectly behaved and willing to go along with their boring fucking scripted railroad stolen from Berserk. But I mostly GM myself because I'm so tired of uncreative faggots like yourself ruining RPGs.

>> No.55949892

Could the party have run away?

>> No.55949901

From Barghests? Not a chance, they can even cast dimension door.

>> No.55949908

>be scout
>have huge bonuses to stealth, perception and ways of teleporting back to safety instantly
>GM rocks fall me because I decide to explore the front for my team
Why have scout roles/archetypes then?
Why have teleport back to safety powers?

>> No.55949912

Ah yes, the last defense of a boring railroader

>> No.55949918

I think you got the wrong thread, homeboy.

>> No.55949948

Reminds me of the GM who threw at us a balor when we were 5th level chars and after being TPKd he complained about us not fleeing completely forgetting that's what we tried to do but were unable bevause the fucker moves waaaaay faster, flies and teleport at will

>> No.55949954 [DELETED] 

So the only way they could've saved their skins was to hand over the son of the merchant to the enemy.

What was your intent there, exactly? Did you want to avoid the party get in the good graces of the merchant at all costs?

>> No.55949971

Could they have asked the Barghest to do something else for them, an attempt at diplomacy and making a deal to save the boy's life?

>> No.55949974

Then you have shitty players, or you have a shitty DM that the players believe have reason to arbitrarily kill them.

I would have absolutely no issue with my DM doing the potential death roll in secret, if I WILLINGLY ENGAGED A GAME OF RUSSIAN ROULETTE.

if you can't trust the people you're participating in a fucking hobby with, I can't imagine what a paranoid sack of pathetic human trash you are, or how fucking terrible the people you choose to associate with are.

>> No.55949991

Diplomacy takes a minute or else you have a - 20. Abd if you die two a couple of barghes chances are your level is so low you can't diplomacy against hostile monsters

>> No.55950021

The Barghest were talking and demanding the boy to be forked over, no?

If the Barghest were hostile, they would have attacked immediately, by the way. They were aggressive, not hostile, meaning sure, the attempt at diplomacy would have been hard. But not impossible.

Now please don't speak for the GM, unless you are the one who posted >>55949857

Because accepting a mission even from a group of bad shits is a pretty common plot hook.

>> No.55950075

They had the choice of not talking to the goblins or engaging them in any way and just let them pass, which the merchant's son told them they were vicious monsters, the choice of not starting combat, 2 chances to stop the combat and they didn't do any of these. So fuck off.

This wasn't about the "enemy". Also only one player (The Cleric) was adamant to enter the jewelcrafter's graces because it was him who ticked him off. And he was also the one who wanted incessantly to fight the enemy at all costs, the last one standing, and had really bad luck with the dice.

The problem with the boy is they wanted to off him without causing a fuss because he knew what they are, they wouldn't have let him go.

They weren't hostile initially. But their attitude changed after they found out the group was responsible for destroying the goblin village they wanted to massacre (Barghests need to eat goblin souls to enter Gehenna, basically their version of heaven) and especially after the group initiated combat.

>> No.55950148

Okay, so the group had the chance to just take the boy over their shoulder and ignore the barghests and walk back to the merchant, is that it?

Because from the way you wrote >>55949857
>not long after a band of 4 goblins come down the road and meet the party, see the merchant's son (who is now screaming and trying to run away) and demand they give them to him because they have unfinished business as the guy tried to assault and rob the goblin party along with his ruffian gang
The barghests didn't seem inclined to just let the party ignore them and let them go back to the city.

>> No.55950176

They decided to engage the goblins on the road, they were somewhere where the goblins couldn't see them but they could see the goblins initially (the road was littered with giant rocks thrown on the field by giants long ago).

>> No.55950215

Were there signs that the goblins where more than they appeared? I would imagine a small group of goblins all alone in a forest would be very skittish and constantly looking out for danger, whereas goblins who are in a much higher number are less shaky and more focused on preparing more arrows and weapons for the rest of the raiding band to use and stuff.

Point is: did they have a chance to know that they were going to pick a fight with enemies that are much stronger than themselves?

>> No.55950290

>Ever trusting the GM

What in the actual fuck.

>> No.55950318

If you don't trust your GM, you shouldn't even be playing.

>> No.55950376

Learn how to read. It becomes abundantly clear from "I roll secretly what chamber the bullet is in (roll a 1)" that he respun.

>> No.55950379

I think this is one of the best 'the player was asking for it' situations I've witnessed. Very amusing. Thank you for sharing.

>> No.55950383

>Point is: did they have a chance to know that they were going to pick a fight with enemies that are much stronger than themselves?
Am I supposed to give them creature statistics? Say the gods whispered in their ears "Nah brah don't mess with those weed gnomes they bad stuff"? They knew from the bandit those monsters are supernatural, can teleport, are really vicious and mowed down his buddies in seconds.

>> No.55950433

>this is what GMs actually believe
You're just a faggot like anyone else. Gary Gygax days are long over

>> No.55950445

>what is reading comprehension

No, if they have a ranger or someone who knows behavior pattern of usual goblins should be able to tell if a goblin is behaving in a certain way.

If someone rolled well in an assessment roll (wisdom/nature/insight) then you could have let them known that these 4 lone goblins do not look like their are afraid, even if they are alone in the wilderness and goblins are known for their cowardly nature.

That would have been a surefire way of saying "these goblins behave strangely and are probably unusual"

Also, if the party would not have been able to outrun the barghests, how was a lone bandit able to, exactly?

You seem to be ignorant, forgetting that
>Players are retards and need to be told at least five times before they understand

Yes, you had the bandit tell them: but that alone is not enough to convince a party of murderhobos that shit is fucked and they need to GTFO

>> No.55950474

>to overwatch the dm
You don't get it, do you?

>> No.55950545


>> No.55950617

ok thank you

>> No.55950639

>players get their hands on the tower of a deceased archmage.
>laboriously clear rooms of defenses, find out what various magical apparatuses do, essentially waging a small war on the auto-defenses.
>along the way, go on adventures to raise capital or acquire information to help secure the tower.
>make enemies along the way doing said adventures.
>one such enemy gathers up a small army (about 100 men) and lays siege to their tower
>odds aren't looking good, so the players decide to cut and run, raise their own force and retake the tower later.
>they can do this because the tower has a teleporter
>before they pull out, they spend time activating defenses, taking everything they can conveniently carry, and trashing the rest
>one of the things they can't take with them is a huge crystal made out of stuff called crysx, which is essentially a colossal magical battery. It carries a huge amount of energy, and taking it through the teleported will make it explode.
>so, got to get rid of it.
>they decide to use it to power their teleport out.
>it is an order of magnitude more energetic than the stuff they usually use.
>don't even make them roll !not spellcraft, just warn them that the chance of a teleporter mishap is "overwhelmingly likely"
>they do it anyway.
>resulting explosion causes TPK, and blows up most of the tower and the besieging army to boot.

>> No.55950766

>players can only see the world through GM's descriptions
>GM tricks and lies to them
Fuck you

>> No.55950800

>putting a gun to your head and pulling the trigger

>> No.55950808

I love these threads, in 90% of the posts the dude complaining (in this specific thread GMs) are the ones to blame

>> No.55950834

>That would have been a surefire way of saying "these goblins behave strangely and are probably unusual"
They already knew that.

>Also, if the party would not have been able to outrun the barghests, how was a lone bandit able to, exactly?
He ran while his party was busy getting eaten by the Barghests.

>Yes, you had the bandit tell them: but that alone is not enough to convince a party of murderhobos that shit is fucked and they need to GTFO
They learned to not be as murderhoboyi.

>> No.55950849

They didn't, the characters are dead, they can't learn. Or are you enforcing metagaming in your games?

>> No.55950853

>player pulls the trigger and shoots himself in the head, falls over dead
Chick tried to warn us about them dark dungeons

>> No.55950871

>They didn't, the characters are dead, they can't learn. Or are you enforcing metagaming in your games?
They learned to be less murderhoboyi in the next campaign. Also the Cleric didn't die.

>> No.55950895

>They already knew that.
That's not what I inferred from your earlier posts. How did you clue them in that these goblins are not like the others?

>> No.55950906

I don't get it, are they getting resurrected? I understand that the cleric could have learnt to never save anyone from a danger or to help people but the other PCs are dead, how can they learn if they're dead?

>> No.55950931

This sound a lot like what happened once in my group, though the player looked like he was the going to shoot himself but ended emptying the gun on the bad dude, GM didn't take this the good way because that wasn't """"honorable"""""

>> No.55950932

>They didn't, the characters are dead, they can't learn.
The problem here isn't that the CHARACTERS were stupid, it's that the PLAYERS are.

Or are you saying that no-one can learn to roleplay better?

>> No.55950956

t. mentally handicapped

>> No.55950959

I don't see they were role playing badly, could you point where they roleplayed badly? Or you think that because they didn't do what you wanted them to do makes then bad roleplayers?

>> No.55950971

It's always amazing how many people miss the fucking point as soon as an elementary math/logic "puzzle" is involved.

>> No.55950976

Shit player detected

Neck yourself

>> No.55950981

>bad role-playing
See >>55949857, where?

>> No.55950982

Well, I ASSUME their characters had decent intelligence and wisdom scores. Do you have any evidence to the contrary?

>> No.55951001

You're the one saying they're bad roleplayers, you're making the claim, you have to provide the proffs, and from the first post I don't see bad roleplayers

>> No.55951006

>face sleeping dragon
>after having snuck around in its lair and stolen something
>decide to walk up to it and poke it with a sword
>tell it to fuck off
>tell it to leave its gold behind too
Unless you're all roleplaying characters who are both morons and totally arrogant, this is bad roleplaying. 99% of characters should tell the guy to 'stop before you get us all killed!' or at least leave the cave without him.

Unless he's some sort of charismatic suicide cult leader and he has convinced the other characters to follow him to their deaths.

>> No.55951016

Who are you quoting, where does that come from?

>> No.55951028

1. The thief told them they were goblins that could transform into monsters.
2. They were not skittish like regular goblins and had a distinct appearance with bestial characteristics like enlarged fangs and large claws.
3. The mage sensed a magic aura emanating from them.

Nobody is getting resurrected after their soul is eaten. The cleric had to atone for the shit he did, campaign continued with the OTHER players making new characters.

That's another anon you're responding to.
Also they did not want to back off or surrender even when they were losing. Not all encounters can be won and some don't need to be forced. They learned that.
I'm not sure what good/bad roleplaying has to do though with the fact the Cleric (Lawful Good) instigated all this shit because he was greedy fuck and wanted those sweet gemstones cut and then literally fucking sacrificed everyone to save his hide.

In the end they did defeat the big bad (Dragon Turtle - Map Related) with new characters and an atoned Cleric.

>> No.55951030

They should have just shot the NPC.

>> No.55951094

>2. They were not skittish like regular goblins and had a distinct appearance with bestial characteristics like enlarged fangs and large claws.
Why didn't you say so in the first place, in your earlier posts?

>3. The mage sensed a magic aura emanating from them.
Alright, now you know that 2-3 hints are not enough: you need at least 5. That's my experience with most groups: they need to be told things over and over again.

Given that you didn't mention that you told your players about the goblin's bestial features in your previous posts, nor that the group was initially unseen by the barghest pack, I doubt your story happened at all and believe you only made it all up for this thread. Either that or you're embellishing it to make people agree that your group is at fault, when the TPK is purely on you.

>> No.55951097

Only smart PC here.

>> No.55951118

>GM sets up a Russian roulette game
>My character just agrees, because "I have no reason to be afraid of a stupid gun"
>We go through the gun, shot 4 is the bullet, and it was on my characters turn
>No problem, playing DnD, I have 130 HP.
>GM tries to bullshit it to the heavens, but despite his fancy calculations and multiplication, he can't justify the damage going higher than 100.
>Gets angry, and says I die anyway because the gun is apparently not a normal gun, and he doesn't need to roll, it just killed me.
>Cleric revives me, we kill the gambler who initiated the game, and grabs the gun that can apparently one shot a 140 HP guy because "reasons". Without rolling for damage.
>GM argues that it only does 1d10 damage for us, that it was *magic* from the gambler that made it one shot me
>But I was the one wielding and shooting it?
>He ends the session, and cancels the campaign, and leaves completely furious.

>> No.55951167

Believe whatever you want, but goblins who are actually barghests have those features anyway, didn't think it was that big of a reveal to you specifically and in addition they were somewhat wary at first for an encounter with monsters, that's why they were at first unseen.

>> No.55951173

Shooting yourself to the head counts as coup de grace, and since you're doing it willingly, you forfeit your chance to make a fort save.

>> No.55951204

>1. The thief told them they were goblins that could transform into monsters.
That doesn't mean much
>2. They were not skittish like regular goblins and had a distinct appearance with bestial characteristics like enlarged fangs and large claws.
Monkey goblings
>3. The mage sensed a magic aura emanating from them.
Detect magic doesn't do shit on supernatural creatures. If he sensed somethign that could mean only magic items of they had spells actived on them, nothing points out to barghest or something different than a goblin with a spell on him and/or a magic item in his belongings

The thing still is, you put goblings in front of them and expect your players to not treat them like goblins. The only problem I see is that they were to genre savvy for your game maybe.

>> No.55951210

I think a bullet to your owe brain that you line up yourself would probably count as a self inflicted coup de grace. The fort save on which would equal to the damage the gun did too (which is auto-matically a crit sense lining it up and letting a shot happen counts as helpless) +10. A high level barbarian would have problems making that role.

>> No.55951218

>you're doing it willingly, you forfeit your chance to make a fort save.
That doesn't work like that. Only harmless (keyword) effects allow you to don't roll the save.

If you drink a glass of wine (which is poisoned) willingly you still get the roll.

>> No.55951228

if you play Russian roulette without spinning the chamber you are the retarded.

>> No.55951231

>A high level barbarian would have problems making that role.
>Not having the "I automatically pass a Fort save X times per day" feat
You can grab that before even getting to 10th level

>> No.55951232

Are you one of his players? You've been posting really defensive and accusatory the entire time for something that supposedly is not personal?

>> No.55951253

Different dude, my current Pal, who is 8th level and has way less HPs than 130, has a Fort of 21. Lets assume that gun deals 1d10 as the anon said, lets assume maxes and is a crit, that's 20, and a DC of 30, I would only need a 9 to pass it. Turn me into a 130 HP char (so 13th level or higher) and possibly I can pass that roll on anything than a nat1.

>> No.55951271

This is the second time I post in this thread actually.

>> No.55951283

>Only harmless (keyword) effects allow you to don't roll the save.
No, actually, you can forfeit your save against any effect, harmless or not.

>> No.55951310

Now we're getting into a edition thing. Which feat/game/edition/book are you referring to and does that setting/edition have guns outside of Pathfinder I'm not aware of any DnD books having straight up guns officially.
Also the original point stands outside of having a specific bail out you're still dead kiddo.
+21 to fort at level 8
How? Is is this a class feature or a different game entirely. The example I gave doesn't apply to 4e or 5e most likely

>> No.55951321

Only if the player wants it. So unless the player didn't want to roll fort on that head shot you can't force him to not roll.

Harmless effects are another story, with those you can hand wave the roll even if the player doesn't want it.

>> No.55951333

3.PF has that feat, as in 3.5 and PF, probably 3.0 because that thing was portable with 3.5, right? I don't remember.

>> No.55951334

Dumb waste of opportunity that left the game wrecked and over.

You could have simply teleported them to another plane, with the tower and the besieging army blasted to bits. The only question a DM should ask himself is "Will this make the game more fun or interesting", and when the answer is no (such as when the result is fucking ending the game), don't do it.

>> No.55951376

this is bait

>> No.55951378

1 level sohei Monk (+2 to Fort, Refl, Will)
6 levels unlightened Paladin (+5 Fort, +2 Refl, +5 Will)
1 level in unarmed Fighter (+2 Fort)
26 Cha (+6 to all saves due divine Grace)
18 Con (+4 to Fort)
+2 cloak of resistance

Total 21

>> No.55951389

>26 Cha
Fuck, meant 22. Bonus is right, score was wrong.

>> No.55951391

I'm not a 3.5e expert or anything but I play it a bunch using the dndtools and what not and I'm not familiar with any such feat (unless its in dragon mag who knows what shit lies in their but I wouldn't call it common). It certainly isn't in the DMG, PHB, PHB2 (for 3.5e and pf).
Could you name it? I kinda want to use for a meme character.
And yeah 3.0 stuff is usually fine with most DMs (not officially of course) on a per item basis with some notable not-okay exceptions like the harm spell.

>> No.55951440

>that one guy who got himself thrown in jail and stuck in a near endless loop of being beaten to death by the guards & revived olny to be beaten to death by the guards all because he wouldn't shut the fuck up.

it's a story I've told a few times here but it's probably one of the few moments where I'm glad i don't do DnD anymore.

>> No.55951482

Nu-/tg/ really is filled with a bunch of utter irredeemable blubbering vaginas.

Rolling out in the open? Not allowing insta-death when the players ask for it? You fucking pathetic nu-male nerd-culture big-bang-theory-watching cuckfucks.

>> No.55951500

Please do us all a favor and tell us what game system something like this cannot happen in? I'd love to play it.

>> No.55951513

Interesting when in TBBT the only one rolling is the GM and he hides the rolls.

>> No.55951533


No such thing as "coup de Grace" or fort saves.

>> No.55951540

I dont think you know what that word means.

I was just telling the story, since that's what this thread was for.

My GM was a retard for setting up this scenario, in DnD 5e, where rules like this doesn't exist.

>> No.55951548

>unlighted paladin
>unarmed fighter
>3.0 class I've never heard of
What the fuck are you building nigga?
And yea your saves are quite high cause of that. I wouldn't say that's anywhere near the norm for anyone.
>Lets assume that gun deals 1d10 as the anon said, lets assume maxes and is a crit, that's 20
I looked a pfs guns and outside the blunderbuss all of them have crits x3 or x4 pushing the save or die DC quite a bit

Which means the only gun you'd reliably survive Kurt Cobaining is a shotgun of all things.

>> No.55951599

Who said 3.0? I just said that my Pal would pass a possible DC 30 (assuming that gun deals 20 on max crit)
Also I thought I typed Enlightened Paladin, guess phone "corrected" it. PF archetypes btw
Sohei Monk is a monk that can use light armors
Enlightened Paladin is a paladin who can only use light armors but adds Cha to AC and has ki points and other monk stuff
Unarmed fighter is a fighter who can pick unarmed style feats without needed the requirements

By themselves they give you nothing more than their parent classes to saves, I could have not mentioned those archetypes and nothing would change

>> No.55951617

Fuck, I press send too early
Most guns (at least the ones you can russian roulette with) in PF deal 1d4 or 1d6, make it 6x4, that's still 24 max crit, add 10 for the DC and that's 34, with my 21 Fort I "only" need a 13, but I'm also not a dude with 130 HPs.

>> No.55951663

No but HP is still an abstraction of various things. I'd rule put him into death saves immediately with one failure because you shot yourself in the fucking temple but he could still be saved.
Unless he's level 15+ he's going on the floor.

>> No.55951677

Wow that's a really poorly designed game then. Is that mean if when you sneak up on a bandits tent while they're sleeping their is no mechanical way at all to quietly/immediately kill them? You'd have to full attack and hope that works? The same with unconscious enemy bodies if they have a healer still up too.

>> No.55951696

I mean, certain effects you can almost treat like Power Word:Kill where you die/go death saves immediately upon hitting it. Gun to head, knife to throat, etc.

>> No.55951766

>unconscious enemy bodies
This is quite easy. They are already down, two attacks (which automatically hit) will take them out, no damage roll required.

>Is that mean if when you sneak up on a bandits tent while they're sleeping their is no mechanical way at all to quietly/immediately kill them?
Short answer: No
In reality, things are quite deadly in 5e, so if your party sneaks up on 4-5 sleeping enemies, chances are you'll kill most of them before they ever get to respond anyway. Luck is still a factor, however.

Assassin Rogues can certain crits with double damage and absurd amounts of sneak attack damage, so all but the mkst tanky NPCs will likely get one shot by that single attack.

>> No.55951778

DM arbitration. 5e went the way of not trying to include exceptions, feats and rules for every little eventuality. If you approach it the way 3.x was approached, you're really not doing it correctly.

They were trying to avoid shit like Rumormonger.

>> No.55951805

Dude with 130 probably isn't multi classing monk and pally hard. Saves usually ain't that good at those levels my dude the standard barb+prestige at 10 get around +8-10 from class and +4-6 from scores and maybe +1-2 from items Having good monk saves, with paladin divine grace + high CHA, as well as dipping in a few +2 fort at level 1 classes, does get you some pretty beastly save scores but those are the exception rather then the rule. I mean you can see that right?

>> No.55951872

Wouldn't that imply the DM was fully within reason to arbitrate a self inflicted shot to the head is lethal?

>> No.55951972

Why not roll
>1d6 shot on 1
>1d10 shot on 1-2
>1d4 shot on 1
>1d3 shot on 1
>1d6 shot on 1-2
>1d6 shot on 1-3

As the game progresses?

>> No.55951986

Remove 1d6 shot on 1-2 from that list

>> No.55951987

PF made a lot of feats that weren't in 3.5 brah.

>> No.55952015

Pretty much everything in 5e is made of paper compared to previous editions.

>> No.55952031

>I slit my own throat
>okay roll 1d4 damage

>> No.55952058

Of course.

>> No.55952134

He's not me. I've stopped replying after >>55951094

>> No.55952147

To be honest I wasn't trying to optimize saves, I was trying to make a decent unarmed pal, rest was just a cool byproduct.

>> No.55952164

Why do you not like playing games anon? Because the difference between good and bad decisions, with the latter leading to bad outcomes, is one of the defining characteristics of a game, role-playingbor otherwise.

To not have a "you really screwed the pooch, you die or lose in some other fashion" robs player choices of their consequences and makes the game less meaningful.

>> No.55952198

>less meaningful
It's a game, and not some metaphorical journey of life lessons and enlightenment - and it's fucking over with a TPK. End of fun.

You may tell yourself that players need a sword dangling over their necks to derive enjoyment and immersion from the game, but that's just not true.

>> No.55952234


>> No.55952271


You turned goblins into much more powerful monsters. You're literally half a step removed from the
meme tpk.

You were That Guy.

>> No.55952462

I don't see it.
Also I didn't turn anything into anything, Barghests are in the books.

>> No.55952488

If players ever get the impression that they cant die and nothing has consequences it will devolve into stupid shit fast and become all the more boring to them. Nothing is fun about crawling through a dungeon where victory is guaranteed and the only requirement is to show up. If challenges both mental and mechanical are not overcome why are you even playing a game? If there's not failure state then its not you pulling off incredible feats its the DM narrating at you (or worse you narrating at the DM) at you until the session ends.

>> No.55952559

>illiteracy: the post
It has nothing to do with immersion. It has nothing to do with enjoyment. If your decisions are not affecting the outcome, YOU ARE NOT PLAYING A GAME.

>hey anon, I wouldn't derive immersion and enjoyment from this game of chess if you checkmated me after I played an idiotic blunder. You totally shouldn't do it

Or, if you prefer more collaborative games, if we're all playing thishttps://www.amazon.co.uk/Lord-Rings-Board-Game/dp/1589947061

And between us we play our cards badly and all get corrupted, we should lose. Because that is an essential part of playing a game. If you cannot have fun if your own poor decisions lead to a clear "you lost", then quite frankly you're too immature to play games, role playing or otherwise.

>> No.55952597

Hahaha dude, "goblin or goblins are secretly an emormously powerful monster or monsters" is almost as common a trope for tpk as rocks fall. It's literally become a joke to represent a dm ragequitting.


>> No.55952742


>> No.55952995

>Get told of a terrible Lich who wants to rule the world
>Your level 1 character challenges him to a one on one duel
>Character dies
Wow, why was I punished for doing something stupid?

>> No.55953385

>1st level chars can enter in the Litch's dungeon and even manage to reach the throne room
How did they manage to still be 1st level?

>> No.55953390

They knew the goblins were actually monsters, try harder.

>> No.55953549

>Everywhere the PCs go must retroactively be made safe.
>The PCs should have no lasting negative consequences for their actions.
Fuck off.

>> No.55954219

All they knew is that some no name petty bandits got beaten by no less than, but probably more than, 4 goblins. Which is possible.

>> No.55954291

>Muh numbers are too high, so i can't commit suicide
God i hope i'll never meet you. Fucking rule lawyer.

>> No.55954494

>Change lich to dragon

There. Is that better for you?

>> No.55955288

There are however instant death rules.

>> No.55955443

If it was pre-established as a dangerous area the PC should obviously expect some sort of resistance.
If the entire party is discouraged from going at that time then one dude going in alone would be considered an exceptionally bad idea.
GMs aren't babysitters and shouldn't have to stroke the player's dick when they do something stupid.
You wouldn't get mad at a video game that killed you when you wandered into a high level area at a low level would you?

>> No.55955592

Essentially after fighting wolves and werewolves and getting to the old bonegrinder my party met the hags outside their home and the hags were upset. I was the DM, they camped after the werewolf encounter.

My wife decided to cast Tasha's Hideous Laughter on one, and initiative was rolled.

>Hags get high Initiative
>One hag polymorphs the fighter
>One hag magic missiles my wife
>0 hp
>Other hag joins intitative
>Lightning bolts get let loose
>Party is nearly dead, Cleric actually died
>Last Hag surrenders, offers to rez Cleric
>Reincarnates instead
>Cleric now a Drow Female
>Strahd has been observing this
>Fighter decides to attack the last hag
>Barbarian attacks
>She lightning bolts
>They drop
>Strahd lands to abduct Ireena

They were all dead or mostly dead at this point.

>> No.55956236

>in a forest we told him was dangerous because BBEG troops were in that zone

A forest that that group also wandered, got our asses kicked, barely escaped and knew that nothing good would come if we were unprepared.

>Nah man, I can't kill all the troops and get all the loot for myself if I do it alone.
>Literally new and interesting places to go and he chooses the one that can and will kill him.

Your players must have a lot of fun anon, do you also lick their balls?

>> No.55957046 [SPOILER] 

>having the freedom to go anywhere at any level, regardless of danger, is bad
>you would die if you go there, therefore you shouldn't be allowed to go there

Freedom+Open World > Railroad + Always on CR

In one campaign, I had a powerful vampire and a house full of corpses. The house itself had little loot that looked intentionally placed, with the amount of treasure slowly increasing as it leads you to the dungeon below.
(Find bodies past pieces of good, obvious treasure. Wonder why they 'didn't pick any up'. HMMM)
The corpses and several other "subtle" hints that this wasn't a place to be taken lightly. The vampire was basically a trapdoor spider that lead adventurers to their doom with a few shiny objects. When he finished eating them, he'd keep most of the good loot and place the mundane stuff back on his "treasure trail of death".

Didn't think it was that great, but apparently one of my players stole the idea for his campaign like a year later and claimed it was his.
>mfw he didn't even change the vampire's name

>> No.55957056

Adding a bigger battery to something doesn't simply make it work better. Generally speaking, an energy overload causes shit to break and not work in the process.

>> No.55957527

>i pick up the ritual dagger and stab it into my heart
>i dunno. maybe it'll make me a god or something
"holding the dagger, you feel that would be a horrible idea"
>that's fine. i do it anyway
"you stab yourself for x damage."
>what happens
"you start bleeding profusely."
>wtf. i do it again
"you stab yourself again for x damage."
>what happens
"what usually happens when you stab yourself in the heart twice. you die."

I've had retards like you before.

>> No.55957554

How'd you come up with that? That's pretty dang good.

>> No.55957579

But there's an easy solution to this. Just write down the roll on a piece of paper and cover it. Then reveal it once someone gets shot.

>> No.55957689

>be me, new guy in group in the middle of a campaign
>don't do much because I have no real context to what's going on yet
>starting to make a few suggestions here and there about what to do since it's my 3rd session
>all my suggestions get shot down because they're stupid even though they make sense to me
>ask why, players bring up some contrived reason related to something that happened 10 sessions ago
>feel like i have no agency after a while
>just wander off to see if i can do something that isn't just follow the party aimlessly
>party gets angry at me for trying to split off from them even though i plan on returning asap
>do it anyway because it's better than nothing
>know there are enemies in the woods, plan on avoiding through stealth
>DM doesn't even give me the option to avoid combat; get ganked
>only get one choice: take bullshit contract to help the BBEG or die
>take choice that doesn't kill me hoping that at least this situation could lead to some interesting RP dynamics later or the DM could give me an out
>other party member gets angry and kills me anyway because "that's what my character would do"
I hope this isn't how it went down.

>> No.55957819

No wonder you're shit. Anyone who derives "enjoyment" from playing out memorized lines from a solved game is an autistic retard. I bet your games are poorly thought out railroading shit.

>> No.55957853

>Reading comprehension
Litches have dungeons with monsters and stuff to protect themselves, how can a 1st level group reach the throne room while still being a 1st level group? if they managed to reach the throne room they should be in a higher level than 1st.

>> No.55957888

Simon? if not, damn, a friend of mine did the same, though it didn't end in TPK, my sorcerer killed the vampire even though the GM tripled his HPs and got caught in a couple of fumbles to kill us (well at that moment me because the rest were dead).

>> No.55957891

>PCs are in a catacomb system controlled by a wraith disguised as a vampire
>The caves are loaded with undead minions
>After a fight with the 'vampire' and his minions our that guy refuses to heal for some reason
>Eventually they find a room with a huge pit full of bones with a black bow sticking out of the middle
>That guy is a ranger so he decides he wants it due to his class and that it is obviously a magic item and starts to climb into the pit
>The rest of the party starts to follow him
>"Stay here in case there is danger"
>They argue that the pit is obviously a trap but he won't relent and says that if they go in the pit he wouldn't go in
>They let him go
>He goes in and grabs the bow only to get attacked by four necrophidius
>He gets mesmerized immediately and bit
>Dies because he only had four health left because he wouldn't fucking heal
That wasn't even the dumbest way one of his characters died while playing that map...

>> No.55957901

>every lich MUST BE CR 69
>how can a 1st level group reach the throne room

read my post

because the monster fucking wants them to
so he can kill them

>> No.55957931

>I surpassed humanity and became a demigod
>Mundane shit must affect me as the farmer next door
Dunno why it's ok for you that a dude survives a firebreath from a colossal dragon that instantly covers an entire forest rendering everything into ashes but a gun to the head is automatic death

>> No.55957938

They challenged the Lich to a duel, they even said his name, now the Lich got to turn up else he will be called a pussy

>> No.55957946 [DELETED] 

Niggers have the most disgusting bodies.

>> No.55957963

>my PC ended up killing him
That wasn't the GM you replied to you absolute wanker

>> No.55957969

>Creates a trap to lure and TPK first level characters with no chance of survival
>Blames players for their outcome

>> No.55958050

Players have to learn that not everything is what it seems so they don't develop bad habits

>> No.55958131


Not that guy, but
>Wow, here's an interesting situation where player choices could lead to a huge variety of potential consequences, all negative but interesting in their own right. Maybe they end up lost somewhere far, far away from their intended destination. Maybe they end up on another plane of existence. Maybe the surge causes some sort of magical feedback into their bodies. Maybe it messes up their body structure in some way. Maybe it makes them half-ethereal, or fuses them with other objects or creatures or something. Maybe it etc. etc.

Are you really so dense as to not see the potential of the situation, driven directly by the player choices? But instead of being imaginative and giving players terrible consequences in a way that still lets the game continue with new and interesting twists, you just end it. Game over, any investment you had with the characters or story is just gone. If I was a player I'd be pretty dang frustrated with the GM.
And no, stabbing yourself in the heart is not even remotely comparable a situation, what a terrible strawman.

>> No.55958225

Not everywhere needs to be made safe for PCs, but all areas should give the PCs opportunity to avoid danger if it's too deadly for them.
>but muh stupid players doing stupid stuff while in x scenario
Yeah, no shit. Stupid is stupid. But you shouldn't immediately punish someone for doing something as open ended and innocuous as walking into a fucking forest.
If Bilbo walked into Mirkwood and was instantly ganked with no opportunity to survive then it'd be a really shitty book.

>> No.55958233

>empty dungeon
>other than being full of corpses
>most of which, if looked at properly, looked like they were heading toward the exit
>loot boxes that look fresh

Are you so fucking dense that you think

and it's not an instant TPK. Two people left the dungeon because they fucking used the information given to make a deduction about their surroundings, and used that to survive. They got to keep the meager treasure they'd gathered, meanwhile the greedy lootwhores who mindlessly run room to room don't get rewarded. They get baited. Like flies.

>> No.55958275

Games are intended to come to a conclusion, not to keep going until the fun dribbles out and it dissolves for lack of interest. Quite frankly, if your game does not have a "lose" (which probably includes death, as well as other non-death lose states) you are almost certainly playing a shitty game. It is entirely fair, and good refereeing, to tell your players that their gross stupidity has lost them the game, whatever form that loss takes.

>> No.55958278

>After the bone pit incident I alow him to bring in the wizard he had on reserve
>He introduces himself by saying he came here because he "sensed a great evil" and the told everybody what race he was two times
>He didn't even get that right claiming that he was half-dragon and half-human despite being a lizard man
>The party tears through the catacombs with relative ease with that guy playing a surprisingly competant wizard
>After they defeat the wraith the party wonders around a lkttle and finds a hidden treasure room with a stupid joke item in it
>A sub sandwich with horns and a tail
>The Broodwich from Aqua Teen Hunger Force
>It functions the exact same way as it did in the show complete with cackling devil voice
>Party fighter catches on and puts the whole thing in his mouth just to see if it works the same way
>Describe how it takes him to an odd empty world full of hostile creatures with axes
>He spits it out and tells the party what happened
>The devil voice fails to convice them to eat the sandwich and tells them that they win a prize for resisting the temptation of the Broodwich
>A portal opens up and the voice say that they won "Free brain surgery!"
>Party laughs and declines
>That guy stops them
>"Wait, what if it increases our wisdom?"
>Jumps in portal
>Gets lobotomized
>Comes back out of the portal and eats the sandwich
>Dissapears never to be seen again

>> No.55958286

>why didn't stabbing myself make me win the game
>this is the GMs fault

it wasn't a strawman. it was a situation that literally happened.
>do a stupid thing expecting a good outcome
>bad thing happens
>double down on bad thing
>worse thing happens
>blame everyone else

>> No.55958503

Sure, I agree completely. But a total and complete 'You Lose' situation should be pretty rare and come around due to players total ineptitude or retardation. Like >>55957527
and >>55958286, stabbing yourself in the chest is pretty retarded, and the player who did it deserves what he got.
But the situation given here isn't like that at all. Yeah, it was a risky decision on the players part, and should definitely have negative consequences. But that doesn't mean 'suddenly death and end of campaign'. If anything the situation sounds like the perfect opportunity to advance the game in new and unexpected ways. Death should really be reserved as a final option.

>> No.55958551

Are you speaking hypothetically or did one of your players actually do this? I need to know for sanity's sake

>> No.55958685

I flat out told them, without even demanding a roll, that using the crysx crystal in the teleporter was insanely dangerous and overwhelmingly likely to lead to a teleporter mishap. It is entirely within the realm of gross idiocy that is well worth a you lose to press ahead at that point.

>If anything the situation sounds like the perfect opportunity to advance the meaningless narrative in new and unexpected ways.

FTFY. The shit you're advocating is pretty much "the players should not lose the game if it's an RPG", and that the only level of poor play that should lead to a loss is attempted suicide. That's ridiculous. It also seems to imply that the game has no scope other than following the PCs around as they do whatever the fuck, which IMO is a terrible way to play.

>> No.55958746

Usually a teleportation mishap means it sends you somewhere you didn't intend to go, not an explosion that kills everyone. What else were they supposed to do in that situation, anyway?

>> No.55958787

Oh, I would lay bets a player did this.

The Head of Vecna works every time.

>> No.55958819

I would argue that it depends on the circumstances. Yeah, if the campaign was going well, it's kind of a waste to end it like that. I may be too generous towards the GM in this specific case, but maybe the campaign was losing steam. Maybe it was going to end soon anyway. Maybe going out with a bang was a fitting end for the campaign.

No, he's saying that there are more interesting, more FUN ways to have a teleporter mishap than TPK and instant end of campaign. "Ok, you all die, the end" is hardly the ideal way of ending the campaign even if the players do something retarded, especially when that something opens up more interesting ways to end the campaign.

>> No.55958870

How does any of that contradict what I'm saying? I agree, using it was insanely dangerous and overwhelmingly likely to lead to a teleporter mishap. What I don't understand is why you seem so insistent that the only possibility for that is 'YOU LOSE, GAME OVER'. There are dozens of possibilities, all of which would only have made the game better while still dealing serious consequences to the players for their actions.
And yeah, I do believe that (in a normal-style campaign) players shouldn't outright lose the game UNLESS it is due completely to their overwhelming idiocy or ineptitude. Neither of which fits in this situation at all.

>> No.55959152

>UNLESS it is due completely to their overwhelming idiocy
>players do thing

Yeah, I'm not him, but goddamn you're a hypocrite.

>> No.55959160

If there's no warning shot, then it's fucked up. That's why he didn't die on the first stab.

I will never defend players doing absolutely stupid things, but there has to be a warning shot of somesort. The teleporter situation isn't inherently awful, but it's definitely not great.

The first time he tried to activate the portal, things should've started sparking or showing signs of overload before it was jammed in. Danger needs context. Also, punishing the entire party for the actions of a single retard is almost never a good idea. It's one thing if someone drops a weapon during a stealth, alerting the guards and getting everyone captured. That's all fine and dandy, but it's absolute horse shit if one choice kills your entire team.

One of my players actually did this. The team interrupted a sacrifice. The tard assumed the ritual dagger would turn him into a god just because I described it to have "subtle" magical properties. So during the interrupted ritual, he stabbed himself, saw a bad result, then did it again.

He started his own DnD group after that. Haven't spoken to him since, but heard that he talked plenty of shit about me and my DMing. Ironically, completely ripped off (at least) one of my dungeons where a vampire was living in an empty dungeon like a trapdoor spider. Didn't even bother to change the vampire's name.

>> No.55959204

Oh I love these threads, I have a gish gallop of bad decisions here.

>WoD game, all mortals
>Basic plot,PCs all know a murder victim who dug too deep into a cult. He left them a tape where he predicted how they'd cover it up. However, weird shit is also going down, like hidden messages in strange places.
>Game continues, sub groups form in group, and there is obviously a cult as well as something that isn't the cult fucking with the group/small town.
>Clues so far, someone or something built strange machines made out of gold, cult is sacrificing people to these things, something else is trying to communicate with strange messages in radio/phones etc.
>Obvious god machine is obvious.
>Party finds notes from dead plot guy that insinuate that small town is next Sodom & Gomorrah/hurricane is coming. So, you know, time limit.
>Sub groups then go in very... unintuitive directions.

>First sub group consists of the occultist and the tech expert, they decide that the best option is to get paid. So they take some of the gold and deposit it in the bank. They're plan is to steal the gold back and any culty things they happen to find and cash in on bank insurance.
>Second (sane) sub group consists of the town doctor and some locals. They aren't buying the supernatural angle, but they want to figure out what the murder cult is doing so they can try and stop it/find out anything else they can.
>Third group consists of Local hillbilly and a war veteran. By the end they decided that mass cult slaughter was the best possible option.
>Fourth group consists of the town sheriff and whoever decides to trust him that session. He has but one want, be a corrupt sheriff and avoid death.

I shit you not, all four groups manage to fuck up badly enough to fuck near TPK, it's a touch long though, should I continue?

>> No.55959214

>"Wait, what if it increases our wisdom?"
I was about to say he was literally Master Shake but no, he's actually fucking worse. Shake realizes that brain surgery is fucking stupid and there is a jump cut to after just for effect so we don't know if he was actually convinced to get it.
Your player actively decided, immediately, that brain surgery from a devil sandwich was a good idea.

>> No.55959232

>players do incredibly retarded thing after explicitly being warned and die

>> No.55959280

Yeah they should've gone out and died to the 100-man army instead of trying the thing that at least might not lead to certain death.

>> No.55959284

When the subset of places that "you don't want to go" includes a huge number of lethal choices, there's often only an academic difference.

>What else were they supposed to do in that situation, anyway?
Use one of numerous other power sources they had available that aren't far too m uuch energy to dump into the thing.

And I'm saying that if you solely create consequences that keep the game going, you've eliminated fail/loss states in your game. At that point, you're probably not actually playing a game, you're just having some kind of shared narrative experience. You (and the other anon) seem to be operating under this assumption that barring other considerations, the game SHOULD go on, and the characters SHOULD live, and it's the ref's job to facilitate that. I disagree with that sentiment enormously. The game is meant to be won or lost, and if you screw up, you should lose, the same way that if you play well, you should win.

>> No.55959307

>How does any of that contradict what I'm saying?
Have you tried reading it?

>What I don't understand is why you seem so insistent that the only possibility for that is 'YOU LOSE, GAME OVER'.
It was not the only possibiltiy. It was, however the possibility that the locus of how teleporters work in setting, the amount of power they threw in theirs, and the dice roll landed upon. It's really no different than if the players picked a fight with something far too strong for their characters to handle and got wiped out (something else, I suspect, you'd scramble to find alternatives that don't end the game for)

>all of which would only have made the game better while still dealing serious consequences to the players for their actions.
They only "make the game better" if you ascribe to a series of assumptions about what is and isn't a good game. And I very much doubt that you're working from the same set that I am. If you have a game about clearing and refurbishing a tower, and you've blown up said tower, the game's lost, and whether or not your characters survive is an incidental detail.

>And yeah, I do believe that (in a normal-style campaign) players shouldn't outright lose the game UNLESS it is due completely to their overwhelming idiocy or ineptitude
And I do not. I believe that games should be a challenge, and that RPGs are games. You should have roughly as big of a chance of a big loss as a big win, with a large grey area in the middle. And if you don't play well, you deserve to lose.

>Neither of which fits in this situation at all.
Putting a massive bomb that you KNOW is a massive bomb and you can't teleport through the teleporter because it will explode, so instead you try to use it to fuel the telporter even though you know it will probably lead to your death is entirely "overwhelming idiocy"

>> No.55959318

>instead of trying the thing that at least might not lead to certain death.
You mean just using the teleporter normally and not jamming some extra bullshit magic crystal into the mix?
The situation was not a binary choice

>> No.55959328

Except that was never said. The words used were "teleporter mishap", which are incredibly fucking vague and could lead to any number of interesting scenarios like what >>55958131
said. The problem is that your viewpoint is so fucking black and white that the concept of "negative player consequences" equates to "KILL THE PLAYERS WHENEVER THEY DO SOMETHING STUPID" which is a retarded line of thought if you actually want to keep a game going. Hell, I'd have either called a break or ended the session early and made a table out of every possible outcome I could think of (including the TPK) and then rolled for it. But nah, the teleporter HAD to explode and kill everyone because vague warning label = death

>> No.55959349

These threads really show who the kids from /v/ are that grew up on games like skyrim that scale everything in the games world to their characters level

>> No.55959372

Oh so that's the same shitty player you mentioned earlier, that explains a lot.

>> No.55959474


>> No.55959489

You're a fucking idiot if you think anyone's suggesting the players be rewarded, as opposing to saying that there are better ways to punish them than LOL GAME OVER XDDD

>> No.55959509

Holy shit, rolling in the open for Russian Roulette takes all the tension out of the scene. If you don't want your character to instantly die don't put a gun to their fucking head.

>> No.55959511

Mount and blade warband, very fun game

>> No.55959519

>I chew on the bomb
>the world explodes

>I chew on the bomb
>my teeth get fucked up

>I chew on the bomb
>it explodes and gives me superpowers

>> No.55959534

I kind of feel like it's a dick move because the players had no way of knowing they were going into something they had no way of winning. Sure, the trail of magic items should've been suspicious, but what if they had been higher level than the monster? For that matter, how did the vampire know it wouldn't bring in something that could kill it?

In the very likely situation that we're talking about D&D here, I think having the vampire just be a regular monster that kills people is a waste. Maybe if they were random peasants, sure, but adventurers are potentially useful and he can cast Dominate Person at will. I would've had him mind-control the PCs, maybe have a few quests where they do his bidding and possibly have a way to free themselves down the line.

>> No.55959570

>Choose to play Russian Roulette
>Choose to pull the trigger
>It's the GM's fault that you died.

>> No.55959580

Sorry, but given the information in this thread I have to highly disagree with the idea that the player actions in this exact situation were so egregious as to warrant death. Severe consequences sure, but not death.

>game about clearing and refurbishing a tower
You made it sound like that was only one part of the campaign, essentially the players home base. If the entire campaign was based around the tower then yeah, that changes things. Though even then I can imagine ways the game could continue on.

I think the issue's more that you're looking at tabletop RPGs more explicitly as a game, and I see it more as collaborative storytelling. Death forces the story to end prematurely, and should really be reserved for dramatically appropriate times or complete player idiocy. Different strokes for different folks. I'd probably never want to play under you from the sounds of things, but if it works for you and your group then more power to you.

>> No.55959584

>And I'm saying that if you solely create consequences that keep the game going, you've eliminated fail/loss states in your game.
And I'm NOT saying that you should solely create consequences that keep the game going. A big explosion that simply kills everyone is a fairly boring way to end the campaign. You could have had the PCs teleported to Abyss or any of the lower planes and killed by fiends. Hell, a mishap on that scale could have created a RIFT to some other plane: the PCs still die, next campaign(with new PCs) is about dealing with the rift. Even if you wanted to end the campaign then and there, a big explosion was a boring way to do it.

>> No.55959620

You sound like someone who holds a firecracker and sues the manufacturer for blowing your own fingers off.

>> No.55959634

>dude just make a entirely new setting with no consequences for the party doing dumb shit, that's not a reward
I bet you would complain if they died after being teleported somewhere else for doing some other stupid shit like jumping off a cliff to "test the gravity"

>> No.55959741

The players were retards, but you kind of were too for doing something that looked like you might be cheating when there was no real reason to do so. Why not have them roll 1d6 and die on a one?

>> No.55959748

>except for the five levels of dungeon descending into darkness
>more and more skeletons
>no monsters
>fresh treasure boxes
>so many context clues over the course of minimum 2 fucking hours

Are you seriously so dense that you just walk into pitch black rooms?
You see corpses of people who look stronger than you and feel confidence?
Everything is going TOO WELL and you think "I'm just so fucking good and free gold never comes at a risk."

He preferred the blood of greenhorns since terror makes blood a special type of warm.

Go play Skyrim.

>> No.55959782

>You made it sound like that was only one part of the campaign, essentially the players home base

please re-read
The entire raison d'etre at that point was either to clear out the tower, or to acquire resources to clear out the tower.

>You made it sound like that was only one part of the campaign, essentially the players home base.
But why SHOULD the game continue on? The game continuing on should itself be something considered, not a default assumption. Ending a game has nothing wrong with it, either in victory or defeat (or some marginal middle-ground)

>I think the issue's more that you're looking at tabletop RPGs more explicitly as a game,
Well, yes.

Who cares? A loss is a loss is a loss, and whether the characters die in an explosion, teleport into solid rock and die, end up in a hellscape that quickly kills them, all leads to the same results. Characters dead, objectives unfulfilled.

And given the rotating GM seat, as well as the low likelihood of ever returning to this setting again, who cares if there are consequences down the line?

>> No.55959806

ITT people that speed up when they see a yellow light instead of slowing down then blame the other driver after getting in a car crash

>> No.55959859

>A loss is a loss is a loss
That's not even remotely true if you actually care about the game.

>> No.55959877

>Are you seriously so dense that you just walk into pitch black rooms?
People have portable light sources even in medieval societies you know, especially with magic.

>You see corpses of people who look stronger than you and feel confidence?
How does someone look stronger than you in a system where appearance and power level have nothing to do with each other?

>Everything is going TOO WELL and you think "I'm just so fucking good and free gold never comes at a risk."
Of course there was a risk but they had no way of knowing it was a risk they couldn't handle.

>> No.55959913

Perhaps I exaggerated, but in this circumstance

>dying bcause teleporter exploded
>dying because it dropped you in a lava pit
>dying because it dropped you in a demon city
>dying because it destroyed your teleporter and now have no way out while the besieges cut you to pieces

Are pretty meaningless distinctions.

>> No.55959965

I'm suggesting the GOOD option. Don't cause a TPK but punish the PCs in a way that'll make them think more about their actions in future. For example, the teleporter malfunctions and sends them to the ethereal plane, where'll they'll have to find a way home while fending off horrifying extraplanar creatures. Or alternatively, the teleporter explodes in the process of teleportation. You arrive off target, you take X damage, most of your equipment got teleported elsewhere and/or you now have some kind of magical radiation poisoning. Pick literally any consequence you can think of that will punish the player's bad decision-making while keeping the game interesting.

See above. I'm fucking astounded that you can't seem to comprehend the idea of having a negative outcome that doesn't end the fucking game. Your thought process is more black and white than a zebra in a 1950s documentary.

>> No.55960075

>portable light sources
The mage noped out when the retards decided to go down a trap door into complete darkness.

>how can someone look stronger than you
Well, if a severed arm is the size of your torso, the guy who owned it is probably stronger than you.
and the severed head of a mage with a glyph on his head. It was made exceedingly apparent in the previous session that you had to be at least level 2 or 3 to survive having a glyph put on you.

>they had no way of knowing it was a risk they couldn't handle
>they had no way of knowing
>no way of knowing
>no way

Never DM.

Go play Skyrim.

>> No.55960100

I don't prescribe to 'failing forward' instead 'failing back'. Failing forward as a concept relies on the GM pushing the narrative forward by adding things when the players fail. I much prefer to force the players to rethink their tactics and pursue other avenues themselves. I always say I give all my players the tools for success and if one thing doesn't work they should try something else.

It's better this way and encourages players to think of solutions themselves rather than be handed them.

>> No.55960119

>2 hours of context isn't enough

Holy shit dude.

>> No.55960142

If the players thought he was cheating with the first roll, then why on earth would they still continue with the Russian roulette? If you think your GM is fudging dice in such a life-or-death situation, then you can either back out of it or work something out with him to make sure if you're that worried.

Why shoot yourself in the head if you thought he was cheating?

>> No.55960203

Are you serious? I can't tell.

>> No.55960227

>Player breaks into dragon queen (lowercase)'s hoard and tries to steal back an item the dragon took from another party member.
>gets caught
>wakes up in prison- literally, a small dark honeycomb with a lid, and the dragon lounging on top of it.
>"W-well I'm evil, I'd be resistant to torture!"
Yeah okay enjoy your sensory deprivation sweatbox for as long as you want.
>Finally convinced that maybe being trapped in a small, dark, hot cell indefinitely and with no outside stimulus might creep her out
>gets the dragon's attention
>Dragon gets out its new captive to play with, ie, torment, terrorize, and see if there's any reason *not* to kill her horribly
>Tries to sell herself as valuable, useful, Oh, I can do you favors, c'mon, I'm great
>Dragon is unconvinced
>Fall back on, "W-well you CAN'T kill me! Someone already tried and *failed!* I'm immortal!"*
I should have had the dragon kill her here, desu
>finally goes "Fuck it, I'm done, just kill me senpai"
>killed by dragon

*plot wise, she'd been 'killed', then narrowly cheated out of the dead books with the aid of a psychopomp. But it was still really, really dumb to challenge a dragon to kill you.

All she had to do was grovel. Cower. Cringe and whimper and beg. It's a fucking dragon, play to its ego you goddamn mongoloids, it's not hard. You will literally die if you insist on sticking to "B-but I'm a hardcore badass who NEVER bends the knee!"

>> No.55960286

Play on godmode then. Challenge is there to actually be there, not to be fake pretend there and the party always wins no matter what. No asspulls for what actually happens, if its what they earned, they deserve it. If they bitch about it, its their own fault for not telling you they want god mode on and to never lose.

>> No.55960401

In the player's defense, being forced to grovel and beg is a pretty shitty thing to have to do in order to not get fried. Depending on how the situation was roleplayed I wouldn't blame them for deciding - in or out of character - that death was preferable to destroying their pride, especially if it wasn't clear that doing so would let them go free.

>> No.55960415

>or example, the teleporter malfunctions and sends them to the ethereal plane, where'll they'll have to find a way home while fending off horrifying extraplanar creatures.
WHY would it do that? Why would something with way too much of a power source "malfunction" in a way that it simply works even better than before? You plug in a nuclear factory batter into a lightbulb, it's not going to shine so bright it turns into a beacon, you're going to make the bulb explode. You shove too many volts into your computer, it's not going to run at maximum overdrive, you're going to fry your components. You overcharge a teleporter, it's not going to make you go even further, it's going to most likely kill you in some way

>> No.55960455

>send them on an adventure for being idiots that pushed a button they were told would cause bad things to happen
>this is your idea of punishment
Go use a can of gasoline to start a grill, tell me what happens

>> No.55960464

It was also at the end of a very late night session, and online, so I'm sure frustrations were rampant.

That said, I never WANT to kill a player who's been worked into the story and all, and I'd like to think the tropes and knowledge of dragons are widespread enough that people would actually know that begging and grovelling (or flattering and toadying) is what they like.

>> No.55960504

It sounds like he was having fun with it.

>> No.55960512

>old school western game
>system is a hyper-lethal homebrew thing one of the players' dad wrote in the 90s, based on western III and boot hill
>players are traveling to agua fria to find the killer of a friend who got lynched
>shitty weather hits, horses panic, players realize they're gonna die of hypothermia if they don't find shelter
>skillmonkey gets a godlike tracking result of 35 DC20
>they spot smoke a couple hundred meters away and come upon a small caravan camp
>they're invited in to sit, sing and take shelter
>night passes, day comes
>camp is awoken by hooves and gunshots, bandits have come upon the camp and are demanding a map from the oldest man there
>the players are cautious, realizing they have no idea what's going on
>all but one, who draws his revolver against 10 mounted bandits
>demands they leave, i figure it'd be weaksauce if he just straight up got shot
>they leave, threatening them that it won't be the last time they hear from them
>player takes extreme offense to this, mounts up and chases after them
>chase lasts roughly 6 seconds, as his horse falls under him from a single well placed shot from the bandit leader
>player breaks leg, keeps trying to shoot at them
>at this point the skill monkey runs up, takes his revolver from him and starts shouting at him
>player ignores this, draws his rifle from saddle holster and keeps trying to shoot them
>straight up say they're too far away at this point
>player gets pissy and says he wants to take a break
>session halts
>haven't played since
>this was two weeks ago

playing with randoms at uni was a bad move.

>> No.55960519


>> No.55960598

Should have shot him in the leg as a warning, having the bandits take off emboldened the player to keep acting like a retard

>> No.55960601

Why type all that out when you could've just said "But muh realism!" and it would've conveyed your entire point?
I use the term "punishment" to refer to giving your players a negative consequence in response to something they've done out of ignorance that could lead to said consequence. Using a MAGIC teleporter by overcharging it with a MAGIC power source is sure to produce unpredictable MAGIC effects. It is not unreasonable to "punish" the players by forcing them to survive in a harsh alien environment or work to deal with their newly-gained Magic AIDS. Your real-world analogy is irrelevant.

>> No.55960618

Not really a begging for death moment, more of a what the hell are you doing kind of thing, but here goes anyway.

Party's trying to get into a noble family's good graces for reasons. Finds out a bunch of gremlins stole a wedding dress that's very important and needed very soon so there's a strict time limit here. Figure out that a different family's villa that recently became haunted by a pale maiden waiting for her wedding day means it's their group of gremlins having fun with the dress. So the party decides to nail the villa's doors and windows shut and set the thing on fire. Not just lightly scorching a corner to make threatening smoke kind of on fire, but fireball scrolls rigged into every entrance and barrels of oil rolled downhill to hit the villa kind of fire.
Result was no more villa, no more wedding dress, and two families very upset at the players. I did give out xp for 'solving' the gremlin situation. Campaign did get sidetracked for a while until the players figured out a way to calm down the first noble family. By making a counterfeit dress to replace the first one. Without telling the nobles it's a counterfeit. That backfired too, but that's a story for another time.

>> No.55960641

>bullshit you just made that up

Fucking walk out then faggot

>> No.55960644

>"But muh realism!"
It's not "realism" it's "Point A does not reasonably lead to Point B"

I don't, and never have, given a shit about realism, just something being reasonable. That is not reasonable. There's nothing reasonable about giving a teleporter way too much power and the only consequence being "you went further than intended"

>> No.55960648

>muh semantic "argument"
Thanks for confirming you have nothing of value to say, keep floundering though

>> No.55960676

the game works in a real funny way, you can aim at something, say his leg, roll a D20 and add your skill. 50 is a hit right where you aimed, but anything lower than that you roll a d20, look at an overlay that's a huge ring thing with 20 lines of circles going into the middle. you then have 50 dots that you count down from the outer ring from, so the innermost dot is 50, the outermost is 1. what this means in practice is that you can miss his leg, but hit him in the face or torso fairly easily. it's very neat but makes things very accidentally lethal, the shot to the horse was meant for his arm.

>> No.55960697

>I much prefer to force the players to rethink their tactics and pursue other avenues themselves.
This is assuming that it was due to a major tactical fuckup. If it was a reasonable plan (even a slightly flawed plan) but they got fucked by chance, then failing forward is perfectly valid.

I'd only recommend failing back when they decide to take up the evil talking sandwich on his offer of brain surgery.

>> No.55960713


>> No.55960718

I see, interesting way to handle accuracy

>> No.55960731

it's kind of gimmicky, dunno if i prefer it over normal roll to hit but it's very neat since you always have a chance of straight up doming someone, just needs luck.

>> No.55960759

He told the players outright, in his campaign world FUCKING WITH BATTERIES IS A REALLY BAD IDEA. But no they went ahead and did it anyway.
> muh possibilities
> muh player agency
> muh entitlement
> muh player driven
Storytelling is cancer. Go join a fucking literature circle.

>> No.55960834

ITT: people who think tabletops should never have a loser, and that death as a consequence should be avoided no matter what, even when it makes sense.

My advice is to go play a singleplayer game, put it on easy and play, if you die just install cheatengine and get some scripts going for your gaming experience. But otherwise stay the fuck out of the games, no one wants babies who can't handle either taking or giving consequence.

>> No.55960915

Fair enough, "muh realism" doesn't do your point justice. I understand not wanting to fuck up your idea of logical cause and effect in order to cater to the PCs, I usually reject the idea myself. But in this case we have a huge magical power source being connected to a magical teleporter in a presumably high-magic setting. The absurdity of that alone should at least allow you to suspend your disbelief and consider the wide array of possible ways this teleporter can malfunction.

If "you're flung much farther than anticipated" isn't reasonable enough then how about "Your body's materialization goes wrong, you now all have tumours" or "the surge of energy overloads your brain, your character now has amnesia", or "overloading the teleporter fucked up its accuracy, the items you just risked your lives to gain have been scattered across a 100-mile radius".

A good DM can easily think of an interesting and reasonable compromise that lets the players continue playing but doesn't let them get away with their igorance

Read the post again, if you think I was just arguing semantics then you're stupidity is beyond help.

>> No.55960936

>you're stupidity
Fuck, your retardation must've rubbed off on me

>> No.55960942

>all caps MAGIC
>I'm not arguing semantics
You rolled a 1 on your bluff check

>> No.55961024

My point was that you can't equate a real life fuckup with a scenario that involves magic up the ass because the latter has a fantasy element that makes the outcome more unpredictable than simply "lol it explodes". There's a difference between arguing semantics and calling out an apples and oranges analogy.

>> No.55961122

>start of the argument is whether dumb players doing dumb shit could get them killed
>your entire defense can be summed up as "they shouldnt because magic"

>> No.55961129

Unfortunately he is just kind of an idiot.
He actually got kind of mad when I told him that he was dead.
He also gets pissed off when other players 'don't take the game seriously' and starts in character fights when characters make puns and shit.
I revived his ranger for giving me a good laugh though and let him reuse the wizard sheet in a different campaign.

>> No.55961159

I think what the guy is saying is that you can have a lot of different things happen, basically whatever you want, because "magic" does not follow real life rules, only the rules as explained or as implied.
A rogue teleporter can do all kinds of shit, limited to the GM's imagination.

>> No.55961316

By your logic nothing can be absolute at the risk of a player character having a really bad day, that's not how role playing games work with emphasis on Game, would it help you if he wrote the rules for fucking with batteries before play commences 'on a failed saving throw the battery explodes and does 1Dmega-tonne of damage?'

>> No.55961331

>start of the argument is whether dumb players doing dumb shit could get them killed
Wrong, it was whether dumb players doing dumb shit could cause a TPK and result in a game over. That's what happened in the >>55950639 post that we're arguing over.

And my response the entire time has been "wtf no, don't end the game over one dumb move when there are other outcomes that still show the players they fucked up".

The point of "magic-related accidents can reasonably produce unexpected results" is what I'm suggesting in this particular context. If those PCs instead decided to leap out of the tower window on the twelfth floor then keeping them alive is less reasonable for example.

>> No.55961437

>in the first sentence

>> No.55961441

The most baffling thing is that the player thought being evil would make her resistant to torture somehow. What the fuck?

>> No.55961485

>>55961159 (which is basically TL;DR of my argument)

I'm not suggesting we never allow players to be killed by their own stupidity. I think doing that would kill the tension for the DM, as well as the players if they caught on. If my players killed themselves in a situation where I couldn't reasonably justify them surviving then I'd definitely just let em die.

But in this>>55950639 scenario there's more than enough room for doubt that a huge-ass magic power surge can do things other than blow up and kill all the PCs. And if the alternative is closing my books and going home then why wouldn't I consider those other outcomes?

>> No.55961504

>Not acknowledging the big very important difference between player death and campaign death
You DO know what a semantics argument is right?

>> No.55961529

It need not have been a tpk, all manner of things could have occurred.
The GM CHOSE a tpk, and I'd ask the GM why they took they most final route possible at the expense of the campaign.

>> No.55961546

To rephrase and reframe this interaction in a D&D context instead of thinking about the battery as a magically related accident leading to muh wonderment and mystery think of the battery as a trap.
In a typically D&D game the rogue is searching for a trap on the door, makes a skill check fails to find it.
>PC 'Fine I open the door'
>DM 'Ooops you fail to find the trap which has now activated, roll a saving throw and I'll roll your damage.
> PC fluffs his saving throw, trap damage results in PC death.
Your response: But wait, No! Have you considered there are so many more interesting possibilities, perhaps the trap is a water pistol?

>> No.55961566

Do you actually think that is equivalent at all to what is being talked about?

>> No.55961609

Yes, you are doing it right now by droning on and on about the difference between character and party death with absolutely no one is under the impression that we are talking about character deaths
I know you gave a weak argument, you know you have a weak argument, you all but admit this by autistically focusing on one irrelevant thing acting like it backs everything you say up
Stop being a whiny little bitch and accept that stupidity has consequences, especially if you are warned against it, doubly so in a situation where the stupid action is completely unnecessary and just using the teleporter normally would have prevented a party kill
Go to /v/ if you can't handle losing a game you fucking man child

>> No.55961629

If I used your perspective then I'd instead call the DM a dick for ending the game over one trap, even if he did give the players a vague warning about "teleporter mishaps"

>> No.55961662

>we never allow players to be killed by their own stupidity.
You keep using sentences to this effect throughout your arguments whilst dismissing the idea the player's environment is independent of them and has just as much potential to cause harm or death.

>> No.55961700

this should be the new standard

>> No.55961707

Yes I absolutely do, the D.M has consulted his notes and has prior considered the ramifications of fucking with batteries. You're refusing to acknowledge absolutes exist and the D.M is perfectly within his rights to impose them.

>> No.55961721

What if the thief was soloing the dungeon?

>> No.55961791

and stop.
I'd give any GM shit who decided the only end result of a magic item mishap is the disruption of the entire campaign. It screams that the GM wanted the campaign to end, or were too rigid/in love with the idea of some catastrophic explosion that they would trade the campaign for it.
If it knocked off a few pcs, cool.
Scrambled the entire group, or flung them into another plane of existence, awesome, plot hooks everywhere.
Saying "you are all dead, reroll" means the game has come to a screeching halt the same way a player argument can sink a game. It means you are utterly destroying tempo and flow of the campaign with no chance of recovery... for what exactly?
To wag a finger at the players?
I don't understand this idea that shattering a campaign based on a nebulous outcome that is entirely in the GM's hands is worthwhile.
In the trap case, it is not equal in the slightest; traps and their effects are entirely covered by the rules. An actual example would be:
>DM: 'Ooops you failed to find the trap which has now activated, you are dead
This is more in line to the information we have. There was no mention of saves made, damage rolled, just a end result dictated by the GM, which is why I question it.

>> No.55961803

Depends on wich system you are running, but I wiukd argue that small groups (say 2 ) ñlayers is brtter for those purposes because dice can fuck you up

>> No.55961815

And you know what?
If the players got saves, or some chance to escape, failed those, and ate a shitton of damage, I am absolutely fine with that.
Everyone at the table signed on for something like that, and it has precedence in many rulesets.
The GM decreeing that you are dead smacks of overreach of authority that damn near every player I know, including myself, would take umbrage with. Hell, even Basic D&D You Die traps had you save first.

>> No.55961841

Okay, looks like I actually have to fucking spell it out for you. Here, I'll even use >le reddit spacing so that it's all the more obvious.

The PCs needed a way to escape from a tower.

They had a magic teleporter that could get them to safety.

They also had access to a crystal that acted as a powerful magic battery.

The DM warned them that using this crystal would overload the teleporter. The words he used were "the chance of a teleporter mishap is overwhelmingly likely".

The PCs decided that it was worth the risk. This was a foolish decision.

The DM could have portrayed this foolish decision any way thought was reasonable. Another anon and I have already listed several.

Instead, the DM decided to rule it as a TPK and end the game, no roll.

I'll repeat that last bit just in case it still didn't penetrate your thick skull: The DM ENDED THE GAME when there were many other reasonable courses of action.

Do you see now? Do you see why this looks like a bad idea on the DM's part? Do you see why it's fucking retarded that the players should just go home because "hurr stupidity has consequences"? Especially when there are PLURAL consequences that the DM can choose between?

And do you see why I feel the need to repeatedly specify that this is a party kill because you don't seem to grasp that party kills are something that shouldn't fucking happen when there are other reasonable alternatives?

>> No.55961843

ITT: Roleplaying Game or Cooptional Storytelling™ ?

>> No.55961866

Let it go, anon, if the guy is going to continue arguing after this, he's fishing for (you)s.
I said my piece, and I'm done.
Since Basic, they are generally considered one and the same. Part of the game is telling a story that is built upon and by the actions of the players.
Why are you acting like they can only be one or the other? You drink the WoD koolaid?

>> No.55961912

>This is more in line to the information we have. There was no mention of saves made, damage rolled, just a end result dictated by the GM, which is why I question it.
Well to be honest the D.M was much more lenient than my trap example because rather than roll a Spellcraft he outright gave them 'Batteries bad m'kay?' Whereas in my example I had the rogue make a search check. Then way back up this thread the D.M stated he rolled a saving throw which was fluffed a la my trap example, both trap and magical mishap did 1Dmega-tonne hit point damage = equals TPK.
Perfectly legitimate handling of in game play, anon.

>> No.55961926

I'd pretty much run out of ways to make it simpler. Honestly the main thing that rustled my jimmies was the fact that a huge magic explosion is something that just screams "make a table of wacky (but interesting and not just lolrandom) side effects for the players". Felt like a missed opportunity desu

>> No.55961942

"I've tortured people, I should know how to resist torture."

>> No.55961946

Depends on the game and the situation.
A SR game where the B&E guy is off alone, a D&D game where the scout moves ahead to pick out locations, a DH game where the face goes to the bar dressed down to trawl for info, yeah.
If you are in a dangerous area, keeping a tight formation is sensible, but not always ideal. Everyone should be able to use their strengths.

>> No.55961947

>everyone is only talking about party kills anyway
>but I need to keep specifying over and over that Im talking about party kills, which everyone already understands, because I need a straw to grasp at and say you just don't understand
>I have to do this because despite the scenario being plainly laid out, first by others and now by myself, I can't handle the fact the stupidity should have consequences and instead should be rewarded by letting the group survive and keep going on
>did I tell you it was a party kill
You are literally a tale full of sound and fury told by an idiot and signifying nothing

>> No.55961973

Done yet?
Different skill set.

>> No.55961980

>There was no mention of saves made
Well he did tell them not to do it, sounds like the party failed their sense motive roll

>> No.55962032

>"that's dangerous"
>we do dangerous shit all the time. i do it.
>"everyone dies. the end."
>what the fuck?
>"i said it was dangerous!"

Danger needs context. See

>> No.55962045

Sounds like the party failed their sense: common roll.

>> No.55962047

If you understand the argument then by all means refute it. You've yet to justify why a party kill is an appropriate response to player stupidity when there are other solutions available. If you can't actually provide anything substantial beyond the meaningless "players deserve consequences" rhetoric then I'll just stop responding.

>> No.55962065

>we do dangerous shit all the time. i do it.
Typically, trying to do thsoe dangerous things doesn't have the voice in the sky that controls all things telling you it's a really stupid idea

>> No.55962153

>muh meaningful argument
Fucking irony, and if you seriously don't understand how to learn from consequences than you really are a man child, from now on every person in that party is going to think twice about overloading things and hoping for the best and will listen to any warnings the DM gives them, in turn this will make them consider other more creative plans for handling situations, because that's what adults do when they lose a game
Children throw autistic fits and go on and on about how they shouldnt have lost in the first place and blame everyone else

>> No.55962158

I thought it was kinda dumb and also very b-but muh PC! "I'm speshul and awesome and totally wouldn't give in to *that!*" kind of behavior.

>> No.55962180

Why shouldn't it result in death? So far your only excuse on why the players should get to keep playing their characters for doing something monumentally retarded is "MAGIC" each and every time. Using your own argument, a magically induced death (explosion, your particles get torn apart, your brain is melted by magic, half of you is teleported elsewhere, your soul is ripped out of you and shoved into the deepest pits of some stygian hellscape, etc.) are also all equally valid possibilities. And don't say "Because the DM shouldn't kill you!!!" or something retarded about the GM waving his dick around. What makes you so right? We don't have magic, and even in-setting, almost every fantasy setting ever has magic as this nebulous and mysterious thing that nobody truly understands

>> No.55962290

>So, we'll start mid game. Around this point, the first machine has been found under the pawn shop (owned by the occultist) with notes that imply that other machines like it exist. Hillbilly group may have discovered another machine offering wishes in the form of 'somebody dies, you get the thing.' But after hillbilly didn't take it seriously and lost his sister to it, decided not to push his luck but at least inform the others.
>Since getting the wish requires blood, hillbilly assumes that anyone with hand wounds is confirmed cult, this will be important later.
>Occultist informs town doctor about possible bank robbery because 'cults follow money.' Doctor informs him that this is a retarded idea and they need to focus on a possible cubby hole of dead plot guy at the abandoned building that may be trapped/exposed. This becomes a slight bickering match between the two, and between other players having to bounce early and this split, town doc walks into the probably trapped building with war veteran. On the plus side, neither manages to get caught in the time bomb explosion from the other primary threat (for reference, we have the machines, the cult,and this newly discovered baddie who wants the whole town dead to kill the former two.) On the less than good side, war vet gets drugged and starts to see more spooky shit.

Now, with that shit show out of the way, let me tell you about mad king doughnut.
>Corrupt sheriff, shit at his job, vice is gluttony with a focus on doughnuts, I allowed this if and only if he followed the 'vice causes suffering' schtick. So he had to do something drastic for the love of cheap pastries.
>He delivered, outright skipping shifts and hiding out in the diner or at his house.
>Glorious as that is, he had trouble remembering his deputies names (he had and will lose all 4 of them)
>He also got all his 'how to be a cop' ideas from really bad crime dramas.
>continued in next post.

>> No.55962345

Just stop trying to argue with the retard, he's one of those people who probably doesn't even play RPGs but is obsessed with how "hardcore" he is.

>> No.55962437

It is.
Resisting torture requires specific training to do so.

>> No.55962447

>So, mad king doughnut did not give a shit about cultists or machines, even after his department was implicated as involved.
>He only cared about covering his own ass, to the point where he 'almost murders' half the town, numerous times, just to avoid subterfuge checks, because the corrupt cop forgot to pick up ranks in lying.
>The reason I bring this crazy bastard up is that other than a bad case of 'murder is the only option' he is really, really bad at being sheriff.
>"Hey, doughnut guy, the cult is probably onto you, maybe you shouldn't send deputies alone in places, they might get killed."
>"Then they are doing a shit job."

Almost on cue, he (for once) listens to another party member and sends a deputy out to check out the gas station... alone... to look for cult shit. When the inevitable happens and she vanishes, he chooses not to go looking for her, why? Because he forgot that he ever sent her out and didn't take the 'hey, so and so hasn't come back.' to heart. This will not be the only time that he derps his way into losing someone and forgets to make sure it went well.

>Moving back to the hillbilly group, war vet is still recovering from the drugging when hillbilly decides that he has found enough 'cultists.' So far his list is the mayor's wife, the guy who does finances for the hospital, and the coroner who signed off on the obvious coverup.
>Now, most murder hobos would jump one of them and be done with it... But that is not this hillbilly. First, he begins to seed doubt in the town, telling normal people that a fucking cult of murderers is responsible for the murderers in various bar scenes, war vet backs him on this.
>Stage 2 of his plan is simple, take out literally all the utilities, to make sure that cultists cant make phone calls and have stable alarm systems. He tells no one that he's about to do this.
>MFW he turns the small town into fucking Monsters of Maple Street.
>He then torches/bombs a few cult members houses

>> No.55962501

You did nothing wrong but next time you should do like the anon who suggested you use an observer for that kind of roll if the players are going to be pissy. The player was an idiot.

This is ambiguous. Splitting off from the group isn't inherently stupid though it can be frustrating and dangerous. Making the choices he made to stay alive and then dying for them seems like he had no real chance of living the moment he left the party, which would be pretty shitty on someones part. There are better ways he could have been encouraged to engage differently with the campaign and better ways he could have handled the events no doubt but there must a lot of details that could clarify things.

You're an ass for putting your players in a situation with such a tiny chance at a winning outcome: there are games where that's normal but when we're talking about goblins and clerics it doesn't seem like this is one of them. They could neither run nor be diplomatic (they didn't know what they were dealing with in time to not piss them off) nor fight. What the hell did you want them to do?

You're an ass because teleporter mishap != death, so saying there's good chance that something will go wrong doesn't convey to them that this is a tpk scenario: you didn't give them even a chance at all the info and are now insinuating that they're the stupid ones. Your campaign sounds exceedingly boring and it's for the best that it died at least.

Now that I've judged all of you from some, probably false, sense of superiority, as is the spirit the of this thread, I'm off!

>> No.55962502

Learning from consequence is absolutely important, I just don't see why the DM has to declare "game over" in order to get the players to reflect on their actions. Keeping the players alive while dishing out some lasting side effects of the "teleportation mishap" will get the players to learn their lesson while still having fun. Killing them and ending the campaign will instead undo all progress both the players and DM had been working towards. If you were the DM, surely you wouldn't want your own game to go up in flames?

>pic related
The DM can do whatever the fuck he wants in the situation and I'm simply trying to understand why he would cause a party kill when "MAGIC" could reasonably be used to justify giving them a different "punishment" instead. I'm not saying it shouldn't be able to kill 'em all. Of course it can, but as the DM why the fuck would you make it so?
>inb4 But killing both the players and the game is the only way to get them to stop being dummies!!

>> No.55962531

It was his 3rd sesión because the other 2 previous sessions we were following around so he wouldn't kill himself. Why do I say this? Because he tried to murder everything that had a heart beat or not. We decided that we were going to return to a place to rest and buy some stuff, but he got angry because there wasn't going to be any unpunished murder and prefered to go in a solo exploration
>Ok anon, but don't go near that place, it's dangerous and people have died around that place, we almost got our head chopped once
>"Pfff, you are just cowards, more loot for me"
After realizing that it wasn't a great idea to wander in said place and 4 rounds of a one sided battle, he was captured.
I trully didn't wanted to kill him, just make him unconscious, but after a few blows he wenr full "Oh, fuck you guy, I'll kill you before you kill me"
There were a lot of moments when he could have escaped, stealed the contract or explained himself, instead he became a servant without any kind of brain control or illusion spell.

>> No.55962601

And what I'm trying to understand is why you're treating a "Game over, better luck next time" as the worst thing ever. There's nothing wrong with it, except your cock-eyed delusion of "The show MUST go on!"

>> No.55962608

Bored, gonna rule on shit.
DM's right. I don't know why /tg/ is suddenly filled with faggotry over this, I normally expect a little better of you all.
To clarify, it is implied this is a "realistic" or at least modern game by noting someone as "Russian". And Russian Roulette's entire purpose is that you don't know the result. Sure, they can roll 1d6 and die on 1. But that doesn't quite replicate the roulette wheel, especially when the option of "Just shoot the guy" was on the table.
DM again, sounds like the player kinda' wanted it.
I only give this to the DM if players blatantly chose not to stealth while observing the creature. Or they did and dice gods just rekt'd them, but then that's not quite the point of the thread.
DM and kek. Should be in "That Guy" thread though.
DM I guess, feel like I'm missing a lot here but "I hit myself" seems to be the point of the post.
DM and kek.
I tentatively give this to the DM. On the surface it's fine but the deeper it goes it seems like there's quite a bit of weird stuff going on in the game. Separating in known danger is pretty universally bad tho.
>literal player suicide
Players in the right (finally), mostly, anyway. From what I see the players were on a mission (even if self-appointed) to get the guy's kid and the not!goblins were direct agents concerning the kid. I'm sure the players knew something was up with the goblins but not enough was given to warrant TPK or something truly powerful. Players should have been allowed to flee or be left alone after getting rekt and losing the kid. Maybe get a new thing where they have to ambush the barg's later or steal the kid back stealthily.
Players asked for it but DM gave more than what they were bargaining for. Sounds like you just wanted to end the game desu.
Sounds like dice are right here desu.
DM's right, holy shit these players sound weird

>> No.55962637

>In all fairness, its a brilliant, if not brutal plan.
>Less fairly, nobody else was warned this was going down.
>Occultist group decides to rally the small mob, not to hit the bank, but to steal clues from other ID'ed cultists whose houses have yet to be torched.
>The town believes that the cult itself is doing this shit.
>This gets out of hand, as was made obvious from some dialogue scenes that it would.
>So they get some clues, and also paint a giant target on their asses.
>these clues point to the possible location of the third threat, so the party decides to get rid of that first. For the first time in a month and a half's worth of sessions working mostly together; hillbilly is still just killing anyone with a cut hand.

Now here is where it all starts going to hell. In all fairness, I am sort of jumping from point to point, though I'll add details if needed.
>Sheriff finds out, as group is convening, that one of his deputies is a cultist. They decide to 'interrogate' him. Meaning that he gets his skull busted open. Thankfully, doc manages to keep him alive.
>"You can't kill the machines, they keep it away, they keep us safe! Plot guy looked inside one, that's why he died, it wasn't our fault!"
>So they forced him to look into a machine to test this theory, which melts his gray matter. The location of all of this? The police station. During a deputy's lunch break.
>"We'll just handcuff him and stick him in a cell, she's sure to buy it!"

Now, here is the thing, guy playing the occultist, no patience. So, he decides that since the town is going to shit because all the utilities are gone, now is the perfect time to rob that bank... instead of meeting up with his friends. Because it's just him and tech guy, they use some of the more violent townies to help out. (social focus character, and he had drugs to pay them with.)

>> No.55962646

>b-but why
Drastic consequences create a real sense of danger, this deepens immersion and gives more weight and meaning to the players actions
A bitter defeat makes victory even sweeter
>b-but you don't want it to end r-right
Let's say it didn't explode and sent them to another plane, that's still the end of everything they were working towards and had accomplished with the tower as they start out on a whole new journey, your suggestions contradict your point

>> No.55962713

DM, I-I'm not sure what the player was even asking for though...
Start was pretty intense, but player certainly asked for it by the end. Honestly chillest DM of the pack here so far though.

Think that's all of it except for the 4 groups DM who's going up now.
Surprised I ruled in DM favor majority of the time despite being a player mostly nowadays.

My "Asked For It" stories are:
>Rogue Trader
>One player knowingly is housing a chaos cult on the ship
>Others finally find out
>Bitches when the entire ship raids his section to root out heresy
There were so many opportunities to bluff, convert the cultists back, anything really.

>Friend wants to run Pathfinder
>I outright taunt him and make a level 1 Commoner
>Somehow haven't died
I've been asking for it for years now and the blue-balling is what's really killing me.

>> No.55962753

>>A sub sandwich with horns and a tail
>>The Broodwich from Aqua Teen Hunger Force
>>It functions the exact same way as it did in the show complete with cackling devil voice
That's good stuff. Love that episode

>> No.55962855

>He does not tell the party that he is doing this now, so he misses the rallying to go to the stupid dangerous cell tower to deal with one of the 'bosses.'
>Now the last deputy is off looking into literally the same thing that got the first killed. So to reiterate, one so on lunch, the other is a vegetable, and the third guy is probably dead. And a bank is about to be robbed.
>It's around this point that I reminded the players that NPCs had sanity as well. So maybe they should be careful on what they do with their NPC friends.
>This is forgotten in less than ten minutes as the occultist group drives a dude nuts by showing him a machine... then they convince him to kill all the cultists... then himself.
>They did not take any money, just some safety deposit boxes.
>MFW a bank robbery becomes a mass shooting and there is literally only one deputy to react to it, and the sheriff is missing without reason.

From here, party goes through some shit to clear out the not!dungeon. Occultist group does catch up, but they split up inside the dungeon after pseudo-boss reveals that she can look through other people; so, you know, 'I know what you did three hours ago.' type shit.

That said, the sane group catches up to her first and she cuts them a deal, she tells them that the machines can be overloaded and destroyed, but the thing in them will get out so they have to banish/trap it. If they can do it in 4 hours, then she'll chill on the 'kill everyone' plan and instead focus her efforts on finishing off the cult/playing signal jam for the machines. She even leaves a note so that the other group gets the idea when they do catch up.

So the plan is simple, at least people meet up in the final spot to kill/neutralize whatever supernatural thing is fucking with everything. Cult has nothing to do since the machines get overloaded, nobody else has to die.

Spoiler: half the party and not a single NPC survived.

>> No.55963176

So, this final party fuckup is more a tragedy of errors than anything, and we have the 4 groups I talked about earlier fully formed. Only difference? Tech expert wound up going with the sheriff in the anecdote I'll go into soon.

>Sane group is sane, was sane.
>Meetup time is established as well as gear necessary. An auto mechanic, however, decided to change things up without telling the party. All she had to do was get the strange part she found in an earlier session and get to the meetup point.
>"but wait DM, that church girl is going crazy/possibly about to be killed/possessed, I can save her! And the mom of plot corpse too! They're just a little out of the way!"
>Now, all the while it's been well known that the town is going nuts, a bunch of people dying with no rhyme or reason and rumors of a murder cult kind of does that.
>And she wants to kidnap the pastor's daughter.

Suffice to say that she was unsuccessful, enough to where sane group short waves hillbilly and begs him to go get her/'hey be ready to bounce once this goes down.'

>Back to the occultist and his crazy shit. So, he decides that 'bitch talking to god through machines can't be trusted, fuck her deals."
>Fair enough, so he and computer guy take their time breaking into the locked room and destroying the surveilance/communication computer, psuedo boss herself already flew the coop.
>They then rig the whole thing to explode.
>Psuedo-boss turned kind of ally short waves the group 'Times up darlings, should have warned your friends better.' Though without the tower, she's not a threat, though the tower was signal jamming to buy them time. This was on the note left to the occultist group
>Occultist bugs out after that, his work done. Computer guy goes with Sheriff back into town, in his car, to retrieve NPCs.
>There is now only one deputy, dealing with a mass murder, spree killings, and possibly a mob.
>Hillbilly offers her some kin as volunteer help, she takes it.

>> No.55963268

That you don't see why a game people have been pouring themselves into for months or years coming to an abrupt and unsatisfying end is a bad thing, tells me you've never actually played in one.

>> No.55963314

Oh, I have a couple.

>gestalt party
>level 10
>finds a treasure room full of epic weapons. But the trick is that to claim them they need to fight the heroes who wielded the weapons. If they beat them they get the weapon. Party roles knowledge skills and find out these heroes are literally epic(like 20).
> Most players go nah, we'll deal with the loot later
> that one guy goes I challenge one of 'em
>did the time honored gm thing of "are you sure you wanna do this" three time as per usual.
>the hero summoned commended the guy before they get into honourable combat. Player grt's his head vorpaled.
>player acts all pouty despite all the warnings

>new game after first one ended
>same bloody player, this time is a warshaper (i.e body horror the class)
>fights a flesh corrupting creature ala deadspace
>the party knows at this point that the virus causingthe corruption is caused by a sleeping mad god and that they needed to seal it away.
>seen that touching the infected creatures is very VERY bad over the 11 session campaign.
>"I want to grapple it and out cthulu it"
>sighs and gives the usual 3 warnings before letting him grapple it.
>he gets corrupted and consumed after failing 3 forts saves AND giving him plenty of chances to back out.
>gets salty about it.

Honestly if the other players didn't consider him a good friend, I'd question why they have him around since he keeps pulling this time and time again. Maybe its train wreck syndrome

>> No.55963952

>Now, hillbilly is pretty easy to understand, the only abnormal thing is his strategy for this. See, he wants the town good and nuts because then they'll finish off the cult for him. Once he saw how nuts they got, he had a change of heart.
>Still, everyone in the party has been warned that shit is going down soon one way or the other; so the options are either to try and escape the town or try and stop the bad shit before it hits.
>And then the perpetually MIA sheriff shows up, in his car. Computer guy is driving, and they found an NPC accused of rape from an earlier session.
>"Hey, shit's going to hell anyway, let's go kill that guy."
>They turn the sirens on for full shock and awe factor as they run and gun a man down... just a block away from the police station where the sole surviving deputy organizes whoever is left.
>They hear another siren.
>Now, there are plenty of ways around this, a car chase, explaining the situation since she has been given enough scraps to know that something is going on, anything.
>Remember that the sheriff has a bad case of murder being the only option.
>He fails to kill her before she radios anyone nearby.
>They got the car chase after all
>Moving back to auto mechanic, she has completely missed any meetup time, but she managed to attain a crazy pastor's daughter.
>To her credit, combat did not intensify until they were close to the plot area.
>However, the rest of the party decided to leave a half hour earlier.
>Mechanic wins the combat, and does the thing to overload the infrastructure, releasing the monster inside. The one that needed to be banished or trapped and needed multiple people to do so...
>Back to the best cop ever, turns out that they got grenades from the occultist. And they killed quite a few people, and got pinned in an alley. Just as the monster finishes dealing with auto mechanic and saunters into town.
>That combat goes someone better (tech guy had a bane.) But they didn't win and the disaster went off.

>> No.55963980

In his defense, he clearly needed brain surgery.

>> No.55964123

>So, half the party escapes, no NPCs saved, and between a monster and a natural disaster death was pretty well handled throughout. Admittedly, I did feel a bit bad and did offer the dead players a chance to try and fix something up post hoc. But it was still a glorious little nosedive minutes to midnight.

Worst part is? They had ample warning, between the notes left by plot corpse and the pseudo boss diplomacy, they knew 'hey, we do this and we need to be ready to put it in the other box/banish it.' And they still decided 'now is the time to go completely bonkers.'

I'm starting them on a hunter game next weekend and I can't wait to see what they'll bring to the table.

>> No.55964401

>playing a game that is literally based around a 1 in 6 chance of instant death and expecting not to die
I think you might be the retarded one friend

>> No.55965009


>> No.55965131

>why can't you just run me my own campaign in this group setting of people who want to play together
>i'm not selfish, you're just lazy

1:"Hey everyone, lets play pirates together!"
2: "Sounds good."
3: "Yeah pirates sounds fun."
4: "Hell yeah."
1: "I'll be the referee."
3: (immediately leaves the yard)
1: "...okay. lets just play."
-an hour later-
3: "What the fuck? You said we were playing pirates together, but when I went off on my own, you didn't follow and make the entire group-based game about me!

If someone wants to go for a bit scouting, hit up a shop on their own, whatever, that's all fine
...but if you really think that you're owed a solo campaign in the middle of (and i repeat) A GROUP ACTIVITY, and it's somehow the DMs responsibility to coddle you back into doing what everyone agreed to do....

maybe just don't play DnD.

>> No.55965818

>just guide me back
>like the fucking inattentive sheep I am

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