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55457005 No.55457005 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Previous thread: >>55429967
>Pastebin:
https://pastebin.com/7HiVphFm
>News
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/200664283/chronicles-of-darkness-dark-eras-2
https://www.paradoxinteractive.com/en/white-wolf-partners-with-focus-home-interactive-for-a-video-game-adaptation-of-the-world-of-darkness-storyteller-game-werewolf-the-apocalypse/
>This week's Monday Meeting Notes:
http://theonyxpath.com/if-mars-has-canals-monday-meeting-notes/
>Question:
Why do you think older vampires are migrating out east in 5th edition?
>5th edition cliffnotes
https://pastebin.com/cp0r59da

>> No.55457018

>>55457005
>>Question:
>Why do you think older vampires are migrating out east in 5th edition?

A literal circle jerk

>> No.55457028

>>55457005
Because the writers realised that telling new players that they've got to persist under the suffocating presence of uber-powerful Vampires isn't exactly fun to start with.

>> No.55457293

>>55457028

It worked from 1st all the way through 20th.

>> No.55457294

>>55457005
>Why do you think older vampires are migrating out east in 5th edition?

To escape from SwedeDracula and his abject lack of talent and creativity.

Those elders already lived through the 1990's, and have no desire to relive the embarrassment.,

>> No.55457394

>>55457293
Sure it "worked" in that they didn't change it.
When most people think Vampire the Masquerade, they hear "Bloodlines", which has a lot more freedom, and a lot less uber-powerful cuntbags waving their blood-engorged dicks in your face.

>> No.55457414

New monday meeting notes
>http://theonyxpath.com/a-billowing-swirl-of-red-sand-monday-meeting-notes/

>> No.55457694

>>55457005
>Why do you think older vampires are migrating out east in 5th edition?
Because they can't resist adding real world political hot buttons. I believe the exact phrase "political horror" is one the things they said they wanted to go for.

>> No.55457872

So Geist and Deviant. 2018 release or 2019? Or are we getting fucked like with Wraith20 and might get them late 2027

>> No.55457951

How would a nWoD/oWoD crossover work?

>> No.55457973

>>55457951
Terribly. Don't do it.

>> No.55457974

>>55457951
Poorly

>> No.55457983

>>55457951
It wouldn't.

>> No.55458021

>>55457951
That's like asking if the Dresden Files would work. Or Fate/Stay Night.

It's shit-talk.

>> No.55458134

>>55458021
Supernatural stuff in the Dresden Files works pretty differently, but you could easily fit it into CofD by changing the stuff to fit the parallels. Harry, I believe, would be a Free Council Obrimos solitary. Not Adamantine Arrow like some people say. In the first book he describes magic as coming from life, humanity, which fits with Libertine views, and he doesn't exactly act all subservient and he bucks at the White Council (Diamond Precept).

>> No.55458139

>>55457951
It would suck. Do it anyway.

>> No.55458146

>Monday Meeting Notes

Damnit, Signs of Sorcery is still in "development."

Dave is a cruel bastard, and my faith is rapidly waning.

>> No.55458155

>Why do you think older vampires are migrating out east in 5th edition?
Inconnu fuckery, some desire to pretend to be Saulot and ask the Kuei Jin for wisdom.

I expect they'll be lots of wisdom, in the same sense that getting shanked gets you a blade.

>> No.55458160

>>55458146
It only got any new progress happening on it in months just recently. It is finally alive again but isn't nearly done. Dave just finally got his irl shit sorted. He was apparently homeless or something for a bit after a flood?

>> No.55458172

>>55458134

Eh, I wouldn't try to do Dresden Files in WoD. For one, mages are seriously threatened by Fey/Werewolves/Vampires so they play on much more even ground.

>> No.55458174

>>55458160
>not just stealing someone elses house with magic
It's like the komodo isn't even trying.

>> No.55458224

>>55458160
>He was apparently homeless or something for a bit after a flood?
He said it was a lot of stuff, including housing issues and being flooded. I believe there was also some illness involved? I also think there was a mention of somebody close to him passing away, but I'm not sure. Still any one of those things on their own would be awful, and he's had some sort of combination. Rough stuff. But I'm sure he's doing his best, and that when Signs of Sorcery does come out it'll be a great supplement. I also don't think it'll be too much longer, in the grand scheme of things.

>> No.55458232

>>55458134

In the CofD, Harry Dresden is definitely a low-Wisdom Obrimos Adamantine Arrow.

So sayeth the Komodo Lord, PBUH.

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/search?searchJSON=%7B%22keywords%22%3A%22harry%22%2C%22author%22%3A%5B%22Dave+Brookshaw%22%5D%2C%22sort%22%3A%7B%22relevance%22%3A%22desc%22%7D%2C%22view%22%3A%22%22%2C%22exclude_type%22%3A%5B%22vBForum_PrivateMessage%22%5D%7D&btnSubmit=&humanverify%5Binput%5D=&humanverify%5Bhash%5D=&humanverify%5Binput%5D=&humanverify%5Bhash%5D=

>>http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/search/text/harry/username/daveb/

>> No.55458260

>>55458172
They're only threatened by the Fae. The Red Court was a special case.

>> No.55458287

>>55458260
>They're only threatened by the Fae
Dresden himself flat out said that vampires are bad news for wizards, period, and that during the vampire war, wizards stayed indoors at night.
You are confusing Dresden, one of the top 100 wizards on the world and the prodigy of his generation, with the average wizard and hedge mage.

>> No.55458290

>>55458172
Being seriously threatened by True Fae would be understandable, and that's the closest parallel for Mab and Lea. It's also appropriate for a Mage to be seriously threatened by a werewolf in Gauru form. As for vampires, Harry was up against elders, primarily. Or at least very powerful ones. And he killed most of them, didn't he? Bianca, the Red King, that one, I forget her name, Arianna? The one he dueled. And he would have beaten the duke guy in the duel too, but the duke cheated.

And he did most of it all on his own. With only minimal assistance from other wizards, which would be very impressive by CofD standards. Remember that he smoked lesser vampires like it was nothing, to the point that one even fled from him in terror.

>> No.55458308

>>55458232
Nah, I don't care what Dave says here. It's just his opinion. Mine is that he would be Free Council.

>> No.55458314

>>55458290
Isn't Dresden some sort of ludicrous baby superwizard, though? Thanks to lineage and his uncles early training in violence?

>> No.55458325

>>55458287
Oh, you're including sorcerers and hedge magicians. Not exclusively wizards of the White Council.

Fair enough.

>> No.55458344

>>55458325
Isn't the main difference between a sorcerer and a wizard that voodoo/evocation is out of the former's reach?

>> No.55458347

>>55458287
They're bad news for the majority of magic-users, yes. White Council wizards? One on one. Ten on one, even? Not so much.

>> No.55458355

>>55458290
>And he killed most of them, didn't he?
Via a memetic kill ritual that was being used against him and created by the Red King.
And no, he didn't do it on his own, he had a small army of high powered wizards AND True Fae, including Odin himself and the second most powerful Fae lord in existence, fighting beside him.
Against Bianca, he didn't win, the ghosts he summoned did the work for him, and if the veil between worlds wasn't so thin, he would not have been able to summon those ghosts at all, and would have died like a bitch.
>>55458325
You need to be a wizard of considerable power before you are even reviewed for the White Council at all. Using them as the benchmark for wizards is like using Masters as the benchmark for Mage oops, you fags already do.
>>55458314
And being a student of the Leannsidhe.

>> No.55458371

>>55458314
He was always acknowledged as being really skilled and talented for his age, which I took to mean that he just advanced to a high level really quickly, since the "Masters" of Dresden Files outstrip him by miles and he admits to himself that his experience and education with magic is pretty lacking, and that he mostly gets by on raw talent. It only started getting into his lineage and shit later on, with him being a starchild or some shit. Probably something stupid and snowflakey that I won't like. The way I see it, he just got to Gnosis 4 and Adept level pretty soon after his "Awakening" and stayed there.

>> No.55458460

>>55458355
He killed Bianca on his own. That he used ghosts to do it doesn't change that. He killed that woman in a duel, on his own, and the Duke cheated him. He also fought the Red King, one on one. He also killed two White Court vampires in a duel. The latino kid didn't help him much. Stop being so angry.

And the White Council isn't just made up of Masters. The ones that don't cut are the ones that are much weaker. White Council wizards are essentially, by Harry's description, wizards that have a sense for magic. That it's an innate part of them and allows to do magic much, much better than the ones who do it "blind". He literally uses painting as a metaphor for magic, and says that people who don't have that sense are painting blind. What does that sound like?

>And being a student of the Leannsidhe.
Doesn't Harry say that Lea didn't actually do much for him, and that her "help" was something like Dumbo's magic feather, in that he already had the power he needed to face Justin, but didn't believe it?

>> No.55458465

>>55458308
>I don't care what Dave says here

Blasphemy! Scriledge! Heresy!

>> No.55458502

>>55458290
True Fae are relatively weak compared to Mab in terms of comparisons. The only wizard capable of taking her on would have been the Original Merlin, from the sounds of things.

As for the 'Red Court x White Council', wizards are individually more powerful than vampires, of any Court. T
he Reds went to a *lot* of effort to take them on. And most likely won't be able to pull it off again.

>> No.55458523
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55458523

>>55458465

>> No.55458551

>>55458290

Mind you, he also got his ass kicked hard by 'A guy with an LMG' even with his shield and needed a mortal to even the odds.

>> No.55458567
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55458567

Geez, this topic has been done to death on ComicVine.

In an even field, the White Council takes shit from no Vampire Court.

>> No.55458574

>>55458502

Mind you 'Guns' did a lot to even the odds with vampires as it gives any nobody the power to kill a wizard.

>> No.55458582

Anyone watch Midnight Texas.

It's a "crossover" magical splat show, and once again, a demonstration of mage supremacy.

>> No.55458584

>>55458574
A stupid wizard, yeah.

>> No.55458609

>>55458574

One of the plot devices in The Dresden Files to gimp wizards are the Rules of Magic (e.g, no killing humans with magix, no mind control, no necromancy, etc.).

http://dresdenfiles.wikia.com/wiki/Seven_Laws_of_Magic

Take those artificial limitations, and wizards would wipe the floor with anyone short of a lesser god.

>> No.55458617

>>55458551
He had no yantras or imbued items, so all he had was his base pool, maybe with a point of Willpower to put into Duration and Scale, and probably some Potency to add to his free ones.

>> No.55458739

>>55458460
After everything these threads have gone through, I believe anyone will gladly run to the defence of a fictional work with wizards *possibly* being equals and/or lesser to vampires fairies, etc.

The Red Court is constantly overwanked by the readers, anyhow. The only faction capable of reliably taking on the White Councul would be the Fey.

>> No.55458751

>>55458502
>And most likely won't be able to pull it off again.
Because they're all dead.

>> No.55458758

>Dresden
And a vampire horde took down heavy hitter mages. Those were some shit fights. Not to mention Bianca actually had Dresden dead to rites. He got ambushed and mind screwed. B only allowed him back up in an attempt to use him as a pawn. Using his chick as leverage and a hostage. But Dresden went full phoenix and kicked off the war early.

>> No.55458777

>>55458758
>He got ambushed and mind screwed
Also literally screwed. They raped him.

>> No.55458782

>>55458584

No, in the Dresden Files even a skilled wizard could die like a bitch to a gun. He's said that Karen Murphy is a more dangerous threat than a lot of wizards for a good reason.

>> No.55458795

>>55458782
Depends on how you look at it. Wards would trump guns.

>> No.55458809

>>55458795

And water trumps magic/mages can't use tech worth a damn.

>> No.55458815

>>55458782
I think "stupid wizard" in this sense means a wizard that goes out without a reliable way to defend himself.

>> No.55458819

>>55458355
The Red Court had access to Outsiders and also had their own users of magic.

It wasn't an even match on both ends.

>> No.55458832

>>55458809
Uh huh...

>> No.55458843

Have we really gone from arguing about wizards vs vampires in one setting to wizards vs vampires in another?

>> No.55458855

>>55458832

That's a core part of the setting, that running water messed up magic.

>> No.55458867

>>55458855
Mhmm

Sooner or later you're going to tell me Harry has a pet skull.

>> No.55458880

Could you get phone reception in the Shadow if you were near an open Iris, wether natural or 'man made'? Or does it just not transfer into Shadow like physical matter does?

>> No.55458893

>>55458867
>>55458855
Isn't running water just because it's a barricade/boundary/threshold of a different sort?

>> No.55458908

>>55458855
It makes it harder to gather the energy, because it scatters it. That's why Nicodemus had Harry under a little waterfall to completely stop him from casting. But water doesn't always mean no magic. Even on a boat going over a lake, Harry and Molly could still cast. It was just harder.

>> No.55459000

>>55458460
>He killed Bianca on his own. That he used ghosts to do it doesn't change that
He also freely admitted that if Bianca hadn't made the veil between worlds weaker, he wouldn't have been able to summon the ghosts at all. That is not an advertisement of personal power.
>Duke
In a contest of wills, he would have beaten the Duke square.
>fought the Red King
Dude, no he fucking didn't, read Changes again, please. He survived being in the Red King's presence, Morgan was the one who almost killed the Red King.
>latino kid didn't help
Lies in your favor are still lies.
>>55458502
If that is the case, then why did the current Merlin flat out say that were it not for the White Council's agreement with the Winter Court, the Council would have been wiped by the vampires?

>> No.55459045

>>55458893

Yeah, throwing a spell into a church would also be very hard. It's why guns are so useful, they ignore all the metaphysical rules in favour of just the physical.

>> No.55459060

The Senior Council held off the -entire- Red Court in that one encounter. You don't become the Merlin by collecting bottle caps.

I'm inclined to believe that wizards > vampires

>> No.55459136

>>55459000
Harry summoned the ghosts, empowered and directed them, and did it all while in a standoff with vampires and armed mortals. Pretty powerful. Morgan was dead by Changes. Harry, on the other hands, jammed his fingers into the eyes of the Red King and burned them out of his skull. And the latino kid got hurt in the duel early on, like a debilitating wound ad left Harry to pick up the slack. What did he do, since you seem to know better?

The White Council was also in a bad place for the war, since they weren't prepared while the Red Court had been gearing for it for a while. I don't recall the Merlin saying that the White Council would have been wiped (what book?) but circumstances are a thing, and so are numbers.

>> No.55459159

>>55459136

That and tech advantages. The Red Court had major advantages in information gathering and information sharing. The more tech advances, the more the wizard disadvantage of 'Can't use advanced tech' kicks in.

>> No.55459173

>>55458232
>sexism
Damsel in distress is a harmful trope, so he needs to learn to let bitches die.

>> No.55459198
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55459198

>>55458232
I cannot believe I didn't know I could mine 4plebs this way. I've been on 4chan how long? Fucking hell. Thanks, anon.

>> No.55459275

>>55458867
He has 2 now, one is his daughter.
>>55459136
>empowered and directed them
He did not, he simply let them loose and they revenged themselves upon the vampires who slew them. He also summoned them while alone in a basement, not during the firefight.
>Morgan was dead by Changes
Does not negate that he was the one who damn near took the Red Kings head off.
>What did he do
Took on the other vampire while Harry crippled the other, then needed to be backed up.
>what book?
Changes, or the book before that. I have them in a stack on my kitchen table.

>> No.55459281

>>55459159
Yeah, wizards are pretty screwed in that regard, which is why securing routes through the Nevernever was critical for them.

>> No.55459307

>>55459281

The wizard disadvantage really feels like some min-maxer went 'Eh, what's the chance the game will go on long enough for this to do anything?'

>> No.55459355

>>55458609
>>55459159
>Seven Laws of Magic
>Wizards cannot use any post-industrial revolution technology

Jim Butcher seriously gimped wizards in the Dresden Files, well beyond paradox in CofD, and they still kick ass.

Without these plot device limitations, the Dresden Files would be one book consisting of introducing Harry following by a victory celebration.

>>55459173
>he needs to learn to let bitches die.

If they act like a bitch, he should slap them like a bitch. it would save a whole lot of trouble later on.

>> No.55459370

>>55459355
The laws of magic is what kills my interest in Dresden. Some of them make absolutely no sense whatsoever.

>> No.55459395

>>55459355
They have problems with tech from beyond WW2.
>>55459370
Why? They make sense in a meta, that magic is dangerous and must be controlled since literally anyone can do it. The series does talk about the times of chaos when the laws weren't cleaved to.

>> No.55459408

>>55459395
>They have problems with tech from beyond WW2.

A lot of it seems to be 'Electronics +'

>> No.55459441

>>55459408
Basically.
Anything that has computer tech in it fizzles.

>> No.55459450

>>55459060
Surprised nobody went further on this. Wizards beat vampires in violent confrontations. Big time.

That whole scene was fucking amazing. Langtry was a beast.

>> No.55459457

>>55459275
>He did not, he simply let them loose and they revenged themselves upon the vampires who slew them. He also summoned them while alone in a basement, not during the firefight.

>http://pnovels.com/grave-peril/chapter-thirty-eight-131870.html

Nearly all of your claims are outright false or disingenuous misrepresentations. Follow the link and read it yourself. Harry summons the ghosts while nearly totally weakened and claims that only MAYBE he wouldn't have been able to do it in other circumstances. He does it in the middle of the fight, not down in the basement and he feeds the ghosts his power. You seem like you really want vampires to be considered just as strong as wizards, when it isn't the case. Dangerous, sure. On individual comparisons, entirely possible. But on the whole? No. We're done, because I don't trust you to argue in good faith. Come back with explicit sources, your word is garbage.

>> No.55459503

>>55459370
They're only considered stupid because of how anal the White Council is about them. They do make sense on paper. Don't kill, don't rob people of their will, don't mess with brains, don't mess with time, don't turn people into other things, no necromancy. Understandable stuff, all told. Execution being the default mode of punishment with only the passing consideration of circumstances? Therein lies the rub.

>> No.55459645

>>55459450
Wizards less numerous though. Especially if you're talking about elites like the Council.

>> No.55459653

>>55459645
Which just makes them all the more impressive.

>> No.55459840

>>55459503
Breaking the laws of magic makes you go crazy actually. Kill some people with magic and your psyche will warp so murder seems like a good first option, wjile if you abuse mind control eventually you'll just solve all your social problems with mind control.

>> No.55459857

>>55459840
Isn't it the other way around? That you need to believe in what you're doing to do it, so if you kill with magic, you're already a killer at heart.

>> No.55459960

Would you rather be a mage from Awakening or Ascension?

>> No.55460025

>>55459960
Awakening. Ascension is too hard core with the Paradox. It sucks.

Awakening is also far more appealing.

>> No.55460077

>>55459960
Awakening. Especially 2e. I wouldn't have to worry about Paradox raping me out of reality just for casting a spell that actually looks like a spell.

>> No.55460191

>>55459653
But in a widespread war, not necessarily the favorites to win.

As far as impressive individuals go, I'd say the surviving Black Court vampires are at the top of the list. Everyone conspired against them, all their secret weaknesses became public knowledge, and still they go on.

>> No.55460206

>>55460191
Vampires aren't impressive because they're vampires.

Go away, you.

>> No.55460228

>>55460206
>Vampires aren't impressive because they're vampires.

Couldn't you say 'Wizards aren't impressive because their Wizards' just as much?'. Anyway, the Dresden Files seems to have the most powerful thing of all being 'Being smart'. Mortals can beat wizards, wizards can beat vampires, vampires can beat wizards. It's all about playing smart.

>> No.55460237

>>55460228
No. Because vampires are vampires, they're automatically trash.

Shoo.

>> No.55460259

>>55460237
Fuck you false flagging changeling faggot. stop pushing your sick ptsd furry shit on the board

>> No.55460470

>>55460191
Impressive in the sense that it's impressive how hard it is to totally eradicate cockroaches, I suppose.

>> No.55460550

>>55457394
the same bloodlines where you are dominated by the prince to follow the plot? Sure sounds like like freedom

>> No.55461129
File: 191 KB, 606x670, 08E84751-3A76-4A78-8981-89CBAE4BB193-3152-00000487F26FCC71.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
55461129

>>55458609
I mean you can just break the rules, lots of wizards do, they are mostly bad ones though.

I think there is even that staff which one of the white concil has that eats the mental sin / damage from killing people as well.

>> No.55461400

>>55459960
Seers > Technocracy > Diamond > Free Council > VA/Ether > Shitty Traditions

>> No.55461434

>>55461400
I wouldn't want to be a Seer, in all honesty. They dick each other over all the time. Like a lot. If you wanted luxury, magic can easily afford you that in a bunch of ways (so long as you don't have too many scruples), or you can just hook up with a powerful and wealthy group in the Consilium.

>> No.55461470

>>55461434
Better to be on the winning side though.
If Seers were no better than, and no more risky than the Pentacle, then nobody would join them.
Well... Assuming full knowledge of options.

>> No.55461502

>>55459960
Verbena
Technocracy
Free Council
Seer
Diamond
VA
Other Traditions

>> No.55461535

>>55461470
Define "winning".

>> No.55461549

>>55461535
Sorry, "on the side that won".
Not to diminish the completeness of the victory the Exarchs achieved.

>> No.55461601

>>55461549
It was a victory, in the sense that they got what they wanted, but I don't know if could be called complete. People still Awaken. Mages still Ascend (if very rarely). For sure, the deck is stacked in favor of the Seers for a lot of reasons, but it's not like they're in a total position of power and the Pentacle is hounded and hunted in every city.

>> No.55461635

>>55461601
>People still Awaken
And many of them decide to serve the Exarchs, and they offer them power in exchange for demands that they kill the rest.

>> No.55461667

>>55461635
And if you want more power that means you'll be killing, or at least ruining, a good number of other Seers in order to climb the Iron Pyramid. Flip that around, that means that you always run the risk of being killed or ruined as a Seer, unless you're content to stay on the very bottom of the organization, doing little and receiving little.

>> No.55462033

Would a coward have low Composure or low Resolve?

Or both?

>> No.55462062

I'm reading through the Mysterium book, and it's fine and all, but it's kind of weird in that it almost seems to bash the Mysterium somehow. Like it goes into their beliefs and theories and influence over history, and essentially says to all of it "Nope, can't tell you. Nobody knows for sure. That's just a theory. Mystagogues believe that, but it's not really true. Nope, sorry, they didn't do that either. These chumps wish they were that global, and even the members they do have that travel are unimportant." And so on.

I don't get it.

>> No.55462068

>>55462033
Low Resolve.
You can be a coward with a high Composure, you just don't show it.
Think Ciaphas Cain.

>> No.55462116

>>55462068
Cool.

So I guess full on 'ruh roh Rwaggy' coward would have both pretty low, since they can't hide it.

>> No.55462143

Anyone got Mage Sorcerer's Crusade corebook pdf? Links I found were dead.

>> No.55462163

>>55462116
Yep, you're also shooting yourself in the foot because you'll likely have only 2-3 points of Willpower.

>> No.55462196

>>55462163
Yeh, it's not even my character, it's pre-built for a one-shot to get people into the hobby. Probably shouldn't be that mean.

>> No.55462289

>>55462196
Nah man do it. Whoever doesn't play that coward is a coward.

>> No.55462380

>>55462289
I'll give him some fun skills to balance it out

>> No.55462467

>>55462143
>Mage Sorcerer's Crusade corebook pdf

Here are all my Mage Sorcerer's Crusade books.

https://www.sendspace.com/filegroup/vTIgo6U1BLjoH%2F0teGYAQA482XVaexIq

>> No.55462658

>>55462380
Just make him Shaggy. Give him Crafts (Sandwiches) Stealth (Hiding behind thin objects) and so on.

>> No.55462675

>>55458290
Dresden won his duel with Duchess Arianna because the Red King set the terms of the duel to specifically disadvantage Arianna. Dresden himself wasn't at all optimistic of his prospects of beating a millenia old vampire elder and accomplished sorceress, until the King disallowed physical combat as part of the duel, reducing it to a pure spellslinging contest.

>> No.55462720

>>55462675
Still pretty impressive that he's only been studying magic for a few paltry decades and beat a vampire who had been studying it for centuries on centuries at the least. As I recall there was no real distinction between the kind of magic the vampires use and the kind wizards use in Dresden Files. It was the same thing, just done differently, or a more malignant aspect of it.

>> No.55462723

>>55462658
>Crafts (Sandwiches)

One of the best things about CofD is that this is valid, and could potentially prove useful.

>> No.55463210

>>55462658
Wouldn't that be more of an "Expression" thing or is expression still useless.

>> No.55463212

You can't add other yantras to a rote, right? So would that make it stupid to take Co-Location or Teleport as a rote as to cast at sympathetic range, a sympathetic yantra is mandatory?

>> No.55463244

>>55463210
I don't see how. Expression is basically being... expressive. Writing, music, dramatic flair, etc.

>> No.55463258

>>55463212
Using one yantra is reflexive, every other yantras increase casting time by one turn.

A Rote grants use of a Mudra Yantra, usually tied to a potent skill. This is not exclusive with any other yantras.

Sympathetic casting requires the use of a sympathetic yantra, which does not grant its normal bonus to the spell.

e.g.
Teleporting sympathetically in a single turn means you can get no dice bonuses, as you need to put your sympathetic yantra in the immediate slot.
Add in another turn, and you can use High Speech or perhaps your Rote Mudra.

Also remember, Rotes hide your signature nimbus in a spell, and grant extra reach. So they're useful for more than a simple Yantra.

>> No.55463267

>>55463212
You can, and probably should, use as many Yantras as your gnosis allows. When instant casting you may only use 1 Yantra per turn reflexively.

Sympathetic casting is a special case where it uses up one of your yantra slots for a 'representational yantra'.

>> No.55463282

>>55463244
Cooking can be an art.

>> No.55463319

>>55463258
>>55463267
Got it. I know how it all works, it was just that one thing I was unclear on.

>> No.55463325

>>55463282
But what are you expressing in that sandwich?

>> No.55463355

>>55463325
Have you ever seen how I spread peanut butter? It's like a performance piece.

>> No.55464598

>>55463355
Peanut butter is repulsive. No true artist would allow it to adorn his yeasty canvas.

>> No.55464737

>>55461549
Well, completeness of Exarchs victory is questionable. Yes, world sucks. But boy it could've sucked a lot, lot more if Exarchs could run the show without interruptions about other Ascended beings and rogue archmages.

>> No.55465987

>>55460206
Actually he's right. Here's what Jim Butcher has to say about who could hurt Mab:

o Titania--though it would be a coin toss. Almost literally.
o The Mothers (who wouldn't)
o The White Council. As in, ALL the White Council. Every wizard on the planet. And they'd need her Name.
o Drakul.
o Ferrovax.
o The Red Court--again, ALL the Red Court, though their odds wouldn't be good.
o The entire White Court--very, very long odds on that, but if they actually pulled it off, whoever took Mab would effectively control her power.
o Cowl (if the Darkhallow had succeeded).
o A union of the old Elders of the Black Court. They were freaking scary until the Whites arranged to have them hounded down by mortals.

So it looks like old Black Court vampires are stronger than wizards, they just have a lot of weaknesses.

>> No.55466124

>>55462062
The Mysterium are assholes. They're tied with the Ladder as the Order most like the Seers.

>> No.55467328

>>55465987
>So it looks like old Black Court vampires are stronger than wizards, they just have a lot of weaknesses.

That quote implies the opposite, you mong.

>> No.55467431
File: 36 KB, 805x669, 1458374657383.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
55467431

>>55465987
>he thinks every black court vampire is an elder
You sound desperate. Don't misinterpret the words of Jim.

And if we're going by updated lore, the Original Merlin could take on Mab.
Quite so, Demonreach being a miniscule taste of that.

>> No.55467510

>>55466124
Funny, I would think the Guardians of the Veil are most like the Seers, in that they want to keep people from the truth. I don't see how the Mysterium is like that at all, when they promote magical knowledge for everyone (who earns it), and don't have much to do with Fallen world politics at all aside from having a lot of Mages in academia. The Silver Ladder might work along political avenues in the same way, but what they work toward is the exact opposite of what the Seers want.

>> No.55467547 [DELETED] 

>>55467328
>As in, ALL the White Council. Every wizard on the planet. And they'd need her Name
>A union of the old Elders of the Black Court.

Sounds to me like the combined power of the strongest Black Court vampires is equal to that of every wizard on the planet. They're probably stronger since the White Council needs Mab's name to be compete while the Black Court does'nt require anything like that.

>>55467431
What part of
>old Black Court vampires
Did you not understand?

>> No.55467571

>>55467547
Just a minor nitpick. There were more black court elders than senior council wizards.

Should think about that. Not saying any of you are wrong, but still. Numbers matter.

>> No.55467583

>>55467328 #
>As in, ALL the White Council. Every wizard on the planet. And they'd need her Name
>A union of the old Elders of the Black Court.
Sounds to me like the combined power of the strongest Black Court vampires is equal to that of every wizard on the planet. They're probably stronger since the White Council needs Mab's name to compete while the Black Court doesn't require anything like that.

>>55467431 #
What part of
>old Black Court vampires
Did you not understand?

>> No.55467585

Concept for a Beast: an Ugallu Collector in between Indiana Jones and Catwoman who specializes in magic items. He loves the thrill of the danger and possessing something everyone else wants, but doesn't want to hold onto the items (both due to a sense of honor and the fact they are often cursed). So he sells the items he acquires to museums and private lower case collectors. The money he gets is used to finance further adventures and invest into the growth of his country. He likes to invite other supernaturals into his adventures, and often becomes friends with them. What might be a good Horror and Lair for him?

>> No.55467609

>>55467583
You're looking too deeply into that quote, sonny jim.

Though, I gather you're using bias as your weapon of choice.

>> No.55467623

>>55458795

I think the relevant part is when Kincaid told Harry at one point (I think) how he'd kill him. From a mile away with a sniper rifle, and Harry was kinda frightened by it because there wasn't much he would be able to do.

>> No.55467637

>>55467583
I'd bet on Senior Council wizards and the OG Merlin over the old Black Court elders, personally.

Also, by "Elders", Jim was referring the every single vampire of the more 'archaic' times as a whole. Not a few oldies.

>> No.55467737

>>55467510
>in that they want to keep people from the truth
Nah, they want to keep unworthy people from the truth. And they got some good points. Just look at the Seers.

>> No.55467750

>>55467637
>OG Merlin
Who created a living prison capable of holding actual gods. It was also bestowed with Intellectus.

The guy is/was probably on the level of the Mothers.

>> No.55467806

Guys, leave the vampfag alone. They were ran out of WoD. Let them have their fun with Dresden.

>> No.55467863
File: 156 KB, 392x340, 1504706232004.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
55467863

>>55467806
>"v-v-vampires aren't b-better than wizards in WoD?"
>"d-don't worry! they're s-stronger in dresden!"
>"w-what do you mean they're still weaker?"
inb4
>"d-don't you worry, I will find another setting to migrate to"

What I've gathered from this thread. It's better to bust their egos than to let them have their fun.

>> No.55467938

>>55467737
Judging people and keeping them from the truth is still keeping them from the truth.

>> No.55468147

>>55460550
At least you get the choice to go against LaCroix and potentially kill the fucker. Hell, you can even "win" the whole plot by playing everyone's favorite munchkin Clan.

That is a lot better than sucking Elder dick unless your ST let you use Elysium/Dirty Secrets.

>> No.55468208
File: 78 KB, 486x474, LaCroix.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
55468208

>>55468147

>> No.55468377

So I've missed everything. How is the 5th ed of VtM?

>> No.55468427

>>55468377
Terrible. Just terrible.

>> No.55468429

>>55464598
Jelly serves the Lie.

>> No.55468436

>>55468377
Silly.

>> No.55468449

The Exarchs are behind mayonnaise.

>> No.55468490

>>55468436
>>55468427
Care to give me a short rundown what did they fuck up?

>>55468449
Is Gate Exarch of mayonnaise?

>> No.55468765

>>55467637
That's still not very many vampires compared to every single wizard. Wizards are rare, but Black Court vampires are almost extinct, and the longer you live the more likely you are to die, so there aren't going to be very many old ones.

Based on that, I wouldn't bet on the White Council seniors. I won't deny Merlin is incredibly powerful, but he was in a league of his own. He isn't involved in this fight, and it would be wrong to use him as a measuring stick because no living wizard is as powerul as Merlin (that we know).

>> No.55468810

>>55468765
You're comparing black court vampires in their prime to the white council. they outnumber the wizards ten to one. Or they *did*, rather.

Individually a Senior Council wizard is going to annihilate even an Elder.
Langtry and his peers held off the -entire- Red Court and their Outsider cohorts.

It's a matter of quality vs quantity, influence and capability.

>> No.55468874
File: 299 KB, 1066x1600, 1482469883448.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
55468874

>>55459960
Ascension, probably with Akashic paradigm given its the least resource intensive and the least likely to trigger Paradox besides Etherite.

Literally all I have to do to get stronger is study, meditate, and work out, and I was going to do that anyway, and as long as I stay within Olympic limits I can do whatever I damn well please.

>> No.55469289
File: 51 KB, 540x720, Brucatto.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
55469289

>>55459960
Awakening, mostly because I like 'wizard-hacker' character archetypes.

>> No.55469506

>>55468490
>Care to give me a short rundown what did they fuck up?
I'm not really down with how they changed Hunger and blood pool stuff, and a lot of the fluff changes are big turn offs. Plus, pictures of their presentation at some place were posted here, and nearly all of the concept pictures were wonky avant garde fashion art shit. Just silly.

>> No.55469720

>>55465987
Ferrovax could not only hurt Mab, according to Word of Butcher he could beat her like a redheaded step-child.

>> No.55470487

Do Geists have an 'oh shit' feature when they get caught in a bad situation?

>> No.55470798

>>55470487
I guess it would be actually manifesting their Geists.

>> No.55472050

Question about Changeling: Lost 1E

Harvest (Pledges) work, exactly?

The text says it gives you a bonus dice equal to its rating for the chosen form of getting glamour. Whoever how does that applies to pledges? (which is one of the examples of the merit) as you dont roll.

>> No.55472631

>>55462163
>>55462163
Ever since I saw True Blood I've wanted to play a character as gullible as Jason Stackhouse, who believes whatever he was told last. Would be fun. Maybe frustrating for other players though.

>> No.55472646

>>55470487
Coming back from death, I suppose.

>> No.55472809

>>55467609
That's my interpretation of the quote too.
>>55467863
Dresden has mage supremacy in three important areas.
1.Mages were supreme in the past and shaped the modern supernatural world more than any other faction. This statement is probably true of Merlin alone.
2.Dresden himself is exceptional for a mage, and he fights a lot of motherfuckers who aren't exceptional enough at what they are themselves to be better than him.
3.Most importantly diplomacy. Mages brokered the supernatural peace, and that makes them the cops and the UN. Even if you're a vampire, even in a big powerful vampire court, a mage is in charge of your shit, or else. The greatest battles of the series have been successfully fought to keep the mage overlords in place.

>> No.55472848

>>55468490
Mayonnaise can be used as a magical tool by Seers dedicated to the Raptor, who know it as the Chain of Eggs. Pentacle mages scrying the aftermath of raids on the Seers have frequently observed mayonnaise being smeared into wounds by Thyrsus mages as a healing sacrament.

>> No.55472864

>>55472050
I'd thought that kind of Pledge really just makes you better at harvesting normally.

>> No.55472874

>>55459960
Awakening, reality's more stable there, and grand unified forces of evil have less power and presence in everyday life.

>> No.55472894

Does anyone have some 80's lookin character art?

>> No.55472916

>>55472809
>Mages brokered the supernatural peace
Bull and shit
One of their major rising stars literally started a war over some puss, he doesn't even get to tap anymore

>> No.55472970

>>55472864
>I'd thought that kind of Pledge really just makes you better at harvesting normally.

No, Harvest is a merit that give you extra dice on a choosen method (emotions, goblin fruits, pledges, dreams)

Pledges that give you glamour is a set amount determined in the pledge. My question is how that work? If i made a pledge with another changeling to give me 1 glamour per month but i have the merit "Harvest (pledges) 5" do i get 5 extra points of glamour from thin air?

>> No.55472972

>>55472916
Are you talking about Dresden? He was the 'excuse', not the cause.

>> No.55473053

>>55472848
So Mayonnaise is evil? I knew it.

>> No.55473133

>>55472916
>Harry
>rising star
Harry is nearly universally looked down on or outright reviled by 99% of the White Court. He was only offered the position of Sentinel because of how desperate they were.

Harry, while starting the war technically, only started it prematurely. The Red Court had been preparing to go to war with the White Council for a long time, and he was a scapegoat more than anything.

>> No.55473274

Where did all these Dresdenfags come from?

Fuck off.

People complain there is no place for fan splats yet allow this dresden shit to go on?

>> No.55473280

>>55467585
I like the concept. You'll find the Ugallu Birthright useful.

As an Ugallu, you'll start with one or two of the following:
* Eye of Heaven, a perception power. More focused on people, less on their stuff, so instead you probably want Needs Must.
* Needs Must, a perception power. Useful for someone who hunts for something hidden, but you can also get by on your Birthright.
* Storm-Lashed, environment tolerance. Not relevant.
* Wings of the Raptor, jump/glide augmentation. Not relevant.

Non-affinity:
* From the Shadows, for hiding, tailing, and physical infiltration.
* Shadowed Soul, for hiding, tailing, and physical infiltration. More supernatural in nature than From the Shadows.
* Infestation, an alternate method of physical infiltration that also makes you harder to kill.
* Alien Allure, appearance powers, for confidence scams and navigating the stolen art underworld.
* Siren's Treacherous Song, voice powers, for distraction and control.
* Mimir's Wisdom, learn secrets and detect lies. You will be awash in blackmail material.

If you hunt by separating people from their stuff, your Lair should be a good place to do that, less a killing ground or fear theater and more of a way to delay and confuse the prey.
* Poor Light is a popular Minor Lair Trait because it's easily invoked. It also hinders Perception.
* Maze keeps the prey busy.
* Sealed Exits stops the prey from getting out.
* Stinging can cause blindness.
* Thunderous/Hurricane make it hard to hear.
* Unstable/Earthquake/Viscous/Engulfing make it hard to move.
* Darkness makes it hard to see, and guarantees shadows for Shadowed Soul.
* Disruption neutralizes guns, making armed guards less dangerous. It'll also fuck up electronic security.
* Suffocating/Noxious Gases give people a more immediate problem than whatever you're doing.
* Mirages confuse.

So I'd say Needs Must/Shadowed Soul, Poor Light/Disruption. Larceny, Stealth, Social Skills generally. Mimir's Wisdom would be a good early use of XP.

>> No.55473294

>>55472916
I'm talking about the Accords, spaz.

>> No.55473314

>>55473053
No, mayonnaise is Supernal. The evil lies in its purpose.

>> No.55473460

Saitama (One Punch Man)

Virtue: Determined/Humble
Vice: Ennui
Aspirations: Be A Hero For Fun, Do The Right Thing

Mental Attributes: Intelligence 2, Wits 8, Resolve 10
Physical Attributes: Special (See Unsurpassable Might)
Social Attributes: Presence 1, Manipulation 2, Composure 8

Skills: Academics 1, Crafts 1, Investigation 2, Occult 1, Athletics (Absurd Agility) 10, Brawl (Punching) 10, Empathy (Personalities) 3, Expression (Heroic) 1, Intimidation (Unsurpassable Might) 3, Persuasion 2, Subterfuge 1

Merits: Area Of Expertise (Punching), Common Sense, Danger Sense (Epic), Fast Reflexes 3 (Epic), Indomitable (Epic), Interdisciplinary Specialty (Punching), Tolerance For Biology, Trained Observer 3 (Advanced), Virtuous (Advanced 3), Ambidextrous, Iron Stamina 3, Iron Will, Resources 1, Status (Hero Association 1), True Friend (Genos)

Willpower: 28
Defense: 32
Initiative: 22
Speed: Special (See Absurd Agility)
Health: Special (See Not Hurt At All)
Potency: 10
Integrity: 9

Dread Powers: Absurd Agility*, Not Hurt At All*, Numen (Occult Sight*), Surprise Entrance, Unsurpassable Might*, //Serious Series//

>> No.55473474

>>55473460
*Absurd Agility: Saitama uses the highest between Dexterity and Wits to determine Defense, adds his Potency to Defense and applies it to ranged attacks. His Dodging rolls receive bonus Successes equal to Potency and are done reflexively. His Speed is considered to be enough to win any Chase against mundane opponents. In the case of supernatural opponents with powers that significantly enhance their Speed, roll a Clash Of Wills against Saitama’s effective Stamina + Athletics of 20, and give him bonus Successes equal to Potency.

*Not Hurt At All: Saitama is considered to have an immunity to harm equivalent to that granted by an Imperial spell of Excision for all Gross Arcana (see Mage The Awakening - Imperial Mysteries). For any source of harm that does not come from the purviews of those Arcana, he still rolls Resolve + Potency to contest, and gains bonus Successes equal to Potency.

*Occult Sight: Saitama is sensitive to supernatural phenomena. He notices the active use of supernatural abilities within the range of his senses and may make Perception rolls to approximate their distance and direction. In addition, by spending a point of Willpower, he can see through powers of concealment, illusion and deceit with a Clash Of Wills using his Wits + Potency as his dice pool, with bonus Successes equal to Potency. Lastly, he always knows when he is being targeted by a supernatural power and may mimic the Aura Reading Supernatural Merit, but without drawback.

>> No.55473485

>>55473460
>>55473474
*Unsurpassable Might: Saitama receives an automatic Exceptional Success on all Physical rolls which benefit from his Punching Specialty. If the action has nothing to do with Punching but is still mostly Physical in nature, he may spend 1 Willpower point to apply the Specialty anyway. He forces any opponent that is not godlike into Down And Dirty Combat. Should he face a godlike opponent, he uses Serious Series.

//Serious Series//: The stats above are for when Saitama isn't making any effort. When he does, he can spend 3 Willpower points to perform an equivalent of an Imperial spell of Transfiguration for Forces (see Mage The Awakening - Imperial Mysteries). That is, he has omnipotence within the purview of that Arcanum, but cannot give that omnipotence to others and needs to perceive his target directly. Only godlike beings may contest this by rolling their Stamina + Supernatural Tolerance with bonus godlike Successes vs Saitama's effective "Rote" of Strength + Brawl + Potency (30 dice) and bonus Successes equal to his Potency.. He he may use techniques other than Punching, does not need Quintessence and does not suffer Paradox.

>> No.55473499

>>55473280
How about a Beastier version? Needs Must/Infestation, Stinging/Hurricane. Everyone in the black market for magic items fears the Locust Man.

>> No.55473537

Question: Why is this board so CofD heavy? I'm big into the OWoD, but i don't see nearly anyone ever talk about it here

>> No.55473592

>>55473537
Because those discussions have had a decade more to happen. "Is the Technocracy the bad guys" for example has been discussed to death.

>> No.55473634

>>55473592
they arent tho rite?

>> No.55473648

>>55473634
maybe

>> No.55473702

>>55473537
Probably because OWoD is shit?

>> No.55473705

>>55473634

The Technocracy are the heroes of the oWOD. They weren't supposed to be, and WW tried their darndest to make them evil, but the Union persevered.

Also, the anti-technology, anti-corporate, recently post-cyberpunk culture of the 1990's left really hasn't aged well at all, similar to how Apocalypse's eco-terrorism is equally embarrassing today.

Also, Brucato favors the Traditions which is prima facie evidence that the Technocracy are the good guys.

>> No.55473749

>>55473702
i like it tho. the lore is really interesting. but i dont find the nwod lore interesting

>> No.55473830

>>55473749
Unsurprising.
oWoD is a setting first, nWoD is a system first.

>> No.55473848

>>55473830
Bullshit. Both new and old have great lore, depending on the line(s) and personal preferences.

>> No.55473871

>>55473848
can you point me towards some interesting nwod lore? I havent found anything that compares to owod

>> No.55473892

>>55473871
What do you like best about OWoD lore? Gauging your tastes to better understand what NWoD lore you might like.

>> No.55473978

>>55473892
So much desu
All of Vampire
The Technocracy
Most of Werewolf
Demon

>> No.55474090

>>55473978
What presentation style is your favorite? Adventures, character writeups, in-world documents, exposition dumps? Do you like stuff with implications for the whole world, or self-contained stories at the character level?

>> No.55474107

>>55473978
If you enjoy the Technocracy, you'll probably enjoy newDemon.

>> No.55474140

>>55473705
>>55473634
>>55473592
My favorite version of the setting is the one where the Traditions and Technocracy both have points and its more a question of ideals and metaphysics then anything.

>> No.55474159

>>55474090
exposition dumps are a favorite of mine. I also especially like the parts in the clan/tradition/convention books where they give you their opinion on the other splats

>> No.55474262

>>55474159
This other anon thinks you might like Demon: the Descent. That book gets right into setting description in Chapter 1. You could give that a try.

Have you checked out Horror Recognition Guide, or the NWoD 1e vampire clanbooks, or Dark Eras?

>> No.55474439

>>55474159
Mummy: the Curse has quite a lot of infodumping.

>> No.55474694

>>55457005
I've got a query about some very specific part of OWoD system. I'd be looking for anyone with experience and/or opinion on the matter.

Ok, so I was looking for information on a thaumaturgy path, namely, the path of elemental mastery. Don't know if you've encountered it before, it's a weird one that lets you interact with the "spirits" in mundane objects and natural elements.

Anyhow, I was looking for people who found clever and useful ways to use that path in a game setting.

>> No.55474895

>>55474694
Do you mean the path of elemental mastery as in, the dark ages one that turns you into a cut rate Avatar bender, the Green Path or that one that does things with entropy/the umbra?

Or are you talking about Koldunic weirdness?

>> No.55474937

>>55474895
Because if it's the first one, ran a break and enter specialist using it once. He'd walk in during the day, become a piece of office furniture and creep as deep in as he could get. Nobody expects a desk to be a thief.

>> No.55475096

>>55474895
I'm talking about the "path of elemental mastery" you can find in the vtm 20th anniversary or the blood magic extension book

Basically the powers of the path are
1. blood buff deluxe
2. spirit's touch deluxe
3. animate object
4. turn into an object
5. summon elemental

>> No.55475151

>>55475096
Well, that B&E specialist I mentioned was basically a new age hippie barring his hindu supremacist leanings. The 'swap into form related to x elemental' is amazing - it's like dark souls pvp with chameleon, nobody pays attention to the furniture. Animate the unmoving is great for quick cash - "Excuse me, mr ATM. You're looking very nice today. Please dispense all your money". And you can frame people - do some silly things in full view of the public like hooking a computer up to it while disguised as another vampire you dislike, ask the atm to dispense its money.

>> No.55475358

Anyone know who wrote the Beijing section of the vampire corebook? And if they're responsible for anything else?

>> No.55475422

So what's going down with Tokyo in 2e? It's in all cores, so I'm curious. Any inter-splat potential?

>> No.55475538

>>55475422
The city is basically fucked. The Werewolves are being pushed around by the Hototogisu and the voyager cults, who are fucking with the shadow. There's a massive packless culture, and magath erupt on a daily basis.

Vampires are getting squashed, again, by the Hototogisu. Who are lead by an ancient hunter-ghoul, incidentally. The kindred zaibatsu are being frozen out, the covenants are gone. The Strix/Tengu are working with the Werewolves, who don't really know why they like vampires so much but will happily take what the Strix will give them.

Mages have a tyranical JRPG situation going on. The government is using 1984 for ideas - the military is hobbled by the government to preserve their power. Which means the city is routinely almost destroyed. Chunks of the city go entirely nonmagical, and yearly amount is growing. The orders are pretty fractured, the silver ladder is pretty much entirely interested in non-magical things.. like the Hototogisu.

And last, the Prometheans, who are being hunted by the Hototogisu for reasons, in a city that's chock full of PAndorans and creepy unfleshed.

Basically, yes. Intersplat potential. The Hototogisu are turning into a gigantic illuminati boogeyman with offices across the world. There are inbuilt crossover hooks for everyone - the Prometheans have the fewest, and those are just for Werewolves and the Hototogisu. You could very easily have a "You all walk into a tavern" game start in Tokyo.

>> No.55475565

>>55475538
>Chunks of the city go entirely nonmagical, and yearly amount is growing

What do you mean by this? Are mages not able to work magic in certain areas?

>> No.55475594

>>55475565
They're called Ansho, one of two 'mage' phenomena. Basically, you walk in and any currently cast spells remain as normal. But you (And items) lose 1 mana/turn and you can cast no more new spells/use attainments/etc.

A Master of Prime can close one, but it takes months of ritual. Apparently 1-3 close each year naturally, while 3-5 open on their own. They can be as small as a block or as large as an entire ward.

>> No.55475663

>>55475594
I bet an Archmaster of Prime utilizing Dynamics and/or Entities/Excisions is behind it. Mystery solved.

>> No.55475682

>>55475594
Sounds interesting. Might even be usable to tone Mages down in crossover all while being thematically appropriate.

>> No.55475733

>>55475594
What's the other 'mage' phenomena?

>> No.55475768

>>55475733
Beacons. You release literally any paradox, or even don't suppress all of it on your wisdom roll, and everything supernatural nearby finds out. Not just mages, but everyone knows something weird just happens and it happened over *there*, right there. Distance is something like Gnosis+successes*10, I think, in metres.

>> No.55476328

>>55473871
Funny, I've never found any oWoD lore that compares to CofD. The only thing I like better about oWoD is Caine and vampire society.

>> No.55476402

>>55476328
Masquerade lore is generally more appealing than that of Requiem.

I like both Mage lines, and Wraith > Geist.

>> No.55476414

>>55476402
Isn't Geist 2e supposed to have rules for playing as a ghost? Although I guess it'll be similar to how the other books have rules for playing their sub-splats.

>> No.55476421

>>55476414
Doesn't really matter, oWoD underworld is a really damn interesting place. nWoD, not so much.

Beetlejuice was my introduction to Wraith.

>> No.55476429

>>55476421
What's interesting about it?

>> No.55476456

>>55476429
The differing societies of the dead, mainly. Death is a bureaucratic affair.

The Grand Maw (AKA 'Grandmother') is also an enthralling setting-piece.

>> No.55476605

>>55476456
I remember reading something about that, a long while ago. A whole bunch of different lords and different parts and stuff, right? Or I might be mixing that up with Geist, because it has a whole "lords of the underworld" thing going on too.

>> No.55476679

>>55476402
Wraith is great, and Wraith 20th being delayed displeases me. WW/OP made probably the best life-after-death RPG of all time with Wraith. Then they shelved it and made inferior successors. Even now they could take a tiny risk by crapping out one of those new SJW SMS Steam games for it, and they don't. Wraith is the Cinderella of Classic World of Darkness.

>> No.55476706

So what are cryptids, exactly? I get the gist of what they are from context, but I've yet to come across a full explanation of what they are.

>> No.55476731

>>55476605
As well as ghosts of figures, like Abel. Though Grandmother hid him away.

The exact society differed by the cultural 'zone' of the deadlands, but yeah. Stygia housed the western dead, the Yellow Jade Empire was roughly analogous to China/Japan/Korea/Vietnam, that sort of thing.
>>55476706
Animal stigmatics in nwod demon. Other lines just have them as generalised 'weird shit'. The demon ones have an instinctive sense for aether, and can be harnessed by angels as hunters. They're just as often a pest - in the 70s, a mothman plague was ruining the US infrastructure. Ironically, they're probably better at it all than Demons.

>> No.55476789

Reason to include Lemuria in your Chronicle:
>bunch of out of touch with their times idiots with super science who claim they once guided society
>back alley shops full of incredible if nigh unsuable technology and weaponry of different eras and aesthetics and cages full of cryptids
>Lemurians constantly spew rumors, gossip, and blatantly incorrect information about other supernatural, which can be true if Storyteller desier or can be just used to be made fun of magefags
>Grabby for any supernatural energy sources and components and eager to trade in superweapons or 'clean ups'

>> No.55476840

>>55476789
Oh, and to make it all better, they can always be rebranded into major or minor splat to suit your needs. Players never need to know that they are dealing with Geniuses, call 'em Stigmatics, Slashers, Sleepwalkers or what have you.

>> No.55476868

>>55476789
>Lemuria
What?

>> No.55476886

>>55457005
Quick WtF question. Do Woofs(pure in particular) have any sort of powers or whatnot that can affect area for long time(decades) and not be particulary overt? What I mean I need something that twists things slightly but you can't quite put a finger on it unless you start digging

>> No.55476907

>>55476868
Antagonist faction from Genius the Transgression.
Basically authors caricature of both Technocracy AND Traditional Mages.
In Genius lore they claimed to rule human development from shadows until protagonist faction started to develop around Islamic Golden Age and overthrew them completely around 80's. Bunch of deluded pseudointelectual wankers who are upset humanity didn't develop in direction they wanted to.

>> No.55476928

>>55476886
The elemental influence gifts at high levels. Otherwise, a month is as long as they go.

They can shape resonance to a degree, so that too, I suppose.

>> No.55476941

>>55476886
They can kill the spirits of an area to remove their influence and then seed new spirits with the relevant kind of Essence, and tend to them and defend them to get a desired new influence on an area. The book describes it as precarious and slow going, but it a) affects areas for long times and b) is pretty subtle.

Maybe they have another, more direct way but I haven't gotten that far.

>> No.55476943

>>55476886
Hell yeah it's called managing the spirit world. Decades of eradicating some kinds of spirits and promoting others can change an area enormously.

>> No.55476953

>>55476907
>Genius
Nevermind.

>> No.55476988

>>55476953
Your ickyness amuses me!

>> No.55476994
File: 12 KB, 258x245, 1546858495865.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
55476994

>>55476953

>> No.55477025

>>55476928
>>55476941
>>55476943
Ok this sounds promising. Will have to read up and iron ou the details while one of the players is stuck in the 1920s while other is trying out more mundane investigation

>> No.55477041

Reminder that nobody cares about Werewolf

>> No.55477079

Genius Antagonist faction's minisplats for those who may possibly be interested (hey, you can always rip these off and repurpose):
>Atomists
>Guys upset about how SLOW humanity is taking it. They want their space vacations, jetpacks, laser guns and robot maids NOW. Generally dig 50's retro futurism.
>Etherites
>Each has one Unified Theory they would Die and Kill for and they live for it. Hair trigger temper. These are Lemyrian commando and heavy cavalry.
>Mechanists
>These guys miss the trees from the forest when it comes to humanity. They see people as numbers and their behavior as predictable and milk the hell out of the simple, easily manipulatable system we call society. Love their gears and cogs.
>Phenomenologists
>Fishmalks of the bad guys. Reality is fake, only individual interpretation matters, hail post-modernism! Psychics and liars, these guys believe only what's most convenient for them at the moment.
>Oracles
>Leaders of these assholes. Believe in objectives morality. Wish we were back in antiques with good ol' sciences of Plato. Signature ability is to instantly recall any trivia fact however obscure available in a well stocked library.

>> No.55477090

>>55477079
Give it up, dude. It's like trying to convince people that Earthdawn is actually great fun or convincing your group to let you play a Purified. I get that you like it, and it SOUNDS interesting, but it'll never happen. More than once.

>> No.55477112

>>55477041
Intelligent people do. It's one of the few playable splats.

>>55477079
Nice, keep it on. Do you have an actual group you play with?

>> No.55477124

>>55477112
Honestly wish I had. Do you?

>> No.55477126

>>55477112
What splats are unplayable, and how?

>> No.55477207

>>55477124
No, for now I go for simpler stuff. I fear the players I know 'd only be interested in edgy vamps and stuff.

>>55477126
Nothing is unplayable, some splats have a mix of problems with the premises of the splat, the cod and games in general. Like vamps.

>> No.55477221

>>55477207
How so? Vampire is about how eternal predators fritter away forever, and the battle against their inner natures. That fits well with the corebook to me.

>> No.55477249

>>55477207
I would argue about promethean and mummy are hardest to work with. Vampire is one of the easier games to get into

>> No.55477343

>>55477249
>>55477221
It's pretty easy to make a vamp game work.
But technically it's less playable. A bit like dnd 3.5 bad balance damages the premises of the game.
First example. It should like a classic rpg, a group game. But themes and concepts are that vamps are dark masterminds. So a session could go on wiht the first player grabbing the narrator for 1 hour playing for feeding, moving pawns and shit. Then the second character do the same, and the third, etc.
For ex, in CoD the vamp condition it really does not produce personal horror. You really are a guy with different needs, and people are very adaptable. Obviously that means the character have to willfully avoid 'game' situation. A bit like in dnd 3.5 craft rules are bad, but characters are supposed to be adventurers.
Similar problems in other splats.
Furthermore orom and mummy are nonsensically rules heavy for the limited audience they cater to.

>> No.55477352

>>55477343
I think you just have poor storytellers.

>> No.55477471

>>55477343
The fuck is an orom

>> No.55477638

>>55477471
Promethean.

>>55477352
No, it's a game problem. CoD are group games, and collaborative too. Vamp hunt is solitary, Woof hunt is group based. Which work better?
Vamp are not human at all, no personal horror (they can terrify mortals pretty good, still). Woof are still human, for the big part at least, there is personal horror (and moral perspective).
Vamps should be gothic and feely, you often end up playing Justice League Dark. Woof are some sort of A-team and you often end up playing the A-Team.
Clearly, it's my opinion. And it's supported by my experience and people I know of. Your mileage may vary. But playable splats are just a few.

>> No.55477675

>>55477638
I will concede point about vampire because most people I played with or talked to irl prefer either more visceral horror/supernatural mystery/cloak and dagger. This is also how I play it

>> No.55477784

Is Awakening the most 'advanced' of the lines? So a big fat fucking "NO" for beginners?

I know Vampire caters to newbies the best, but I don't want to play a fucking goth.

>> No.55477804
File: 76 KB, 480x546, 1484445505407.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
55477804

>>55477784
All CofD systems are quite simple, rules wise. Play whichever you and your group like best.

>> No.55477822

>>55477784
Most advanced in what? Mummy is most begginer unfriendly. Mage and vamp are easy to learn hard ot master deal

>> No.55477825

>>55477804
That picture makes me angry.

>> No.55477834

>>55477822
>he thinks creative thaumaturgy isn't the biggest clusterfuck

Yeah Mage sure isn't crap-difficult for newfags

>> No.55477939

>>55477834
If you actually sit down with 2e and read it, start to finish, it's pretty easy to understand. It's all very digestible, and the book isn't afraid to use plain language to make its points. I imagine that the people who get totally confused by it are the ones who jump right into the middle, reading second hand sources (cough the wiki cough) about the magic system with little to no context. It's like eating a hot dog. A hot dog piled high with a bunch of weird stuff, but still. As for Creative Thaum, the rules are actually pretty simple, and it's something your ST is supposed to be in on, so even if you didn't quite get the process in the book, you'll get the hang of it in play pretty quick. But the spell examples will see you through the majority of simple play.

>> No.55477946

>>55477784
Woofs and fairyes are pretty simple and works good.

>> No.55477964

>>55477939
If the 'lol kinetic shield' meme is anything to go by, I just can't buy your words. It's best to just use the example spells and ditch thaumaturgy altogether.

>> No.55478007

>>55477964
>It's best to just use the example spells and ditch thaumaturgy altogether.

That's like taking the skin off of KFC chicken and leaving the rest to rot.

>> No.55478025

>>55478007
So you enjoy eating shit, which is essentially the deal with playing Mage.

>> No.55478028

>>55478007
KFC chicken is best left to rot

>> No.55478074

>>55478025
Mage is THE shit. Yes, yes it is.

>> No.55478511

>>55477964

Here's how the Kinetic Shield spell would work in creative thaum.

>Player: I wanna make a Kinetic Shield spell.
>Okay, let's do it like Alchemist's Touch. You're only protected from physical impacts, and as a basic spell you're totally protected from mundane bashing damage, and mundane lethal damage is subtracted by Potency. For Reach, you can up to immunity to mundane lethal and reduced mundane agg. Supernatural attacks cause a Clash of Wills, as usual.
>Player: Ok.

Not exactly complicated stuff.

>> No.55478532

>>55478511
that's matter retard

>> No.55478550

>>55478532
And he's using it as an example of how protective Shielding spells not based on a Clash of Wills function.

>> No.55478633

>>55477822
I complain about this every time, but they SHOULD have designed Mummy as the MOST beginner-friendly because PCS START THE GAME WITH TOTAL AMNESIA

>> No.55478820

>>55478633
Thing is even mechanics of mummy where you go ass backwards about the power level you have are not very friendly to begginers

>> No.55479087

>>55478633

Honestly, I feel like it'd be harder to start from zero without some serious promoting for a beginning player. Mummy was always going to be player unfriendly because they're a lesser loved part of the Monster Canon and (I like the game a lot warts and all, mind you) it only exists because someone made a reskin of Vampire once and it didn't get forgotten.

Vampire and Werewolf are and always will be the best beginner games. Vampire because it's got an easy ask and the clans have a decent representation of interpretations of Vampires, and Werewolf because it's for a play cycle that's very similar to what people assume role playing games consist of.

>> No.55479489

>>55478511
Stop using Alchemist Touch as a example for kinetic shield.
Its fucking aids.
Shielding gives total blanket immunity to mundane sources of damage be it bashing or lethal or agg. It can be used against a number of supernatural attacks up to potency which also trigger a clash.

If anything alchemists touch goes against the rules for the shielding practice by mentioning reduced lethal damage and not working vs agg damage.

>> No.55479557

>>55479087
I always thought Hunter was better for total beginners, since it's the easiest in terms of setting (you're a normalfag, then spooky thing happened, fuck that noise, grab a bat and come with me to bash its head in), the players do not have to learn a set of rules for the different "societies" (Werewolf in particular is hard for this) and it's one of the easiest to roleplay fear because your characters are as vulnerable as real people.

>> No.55479614

>>55479557

That's true, but most folks seem to want to go for playing Compacts and Conspiracies right off the bat when they play Hunter, so players needing to learn about the societies is pretty much a given for anyone playing WoD save for Mortal. If we're including Mortal as a splat, them I think I'd actually revise my statement and have Mortal be the most newbie friendly.

>> No.55479661

>>55479614
Compacts aren't that far off and can be summed up in few sentences without missing much but yeah base line mortal running into things is probably the easiest to get into

>> No.55479841

>>55479489
Anon, the creative thaumaturgy rules are complete ass.

Going strictly by them, Prime can grant simple positive modifiers on spellcasting.

>> No.55479882

>>55479489
>Shielding gives total blanket immunity to mundane sources of damage be it bashing or lethal or agg
The book doesn't say that. It just says they " usually provide blanket immunity to natural or
mundane phenomena" (p.126). So it's not really going against anything when Alchemist's Touch doesn't give total immunity to all mundane damage by default, or when Purge Illness and Environmental Shield only offer amounts of protection against mundane things going by their Potency.

>> No.55479895

>>55479841
How do you figure? On both things.

>> No.55479957

>>55479895
Read the section on Bonuses/Penalties
Simple dice pool modifications fall under Trait increases, which are 2-3 dots. 4 if your GM is super restrictive.

>> No.55480022

>>55479957
It would be 3 dots, for either Weaving or Perfecting. Probably Weaving to give a boost to casting the spell itself, and Perfecting if you wanted to empower an already cast spell. It couldn't be two dots, as Ruling can't improve things. It actually makes sense for Prime to be able to these things though. I don't see the problem. It's way better than Exceptional Luck being able to affect spellcasting rolls with Reach.

>> No.55480119

>>55480022
Slight correction, Ruling can add the 8-again or 9-again qualities to your dicepool.

>> No.55480467

Writing some ghosts for a haunted house session and I figured I could the PCs a power from Geist when they possessed. Not full-on Geist mechanics, just drawing some abilities from there. But there are loads of the bloody things, and I don't know where to start.

Anyone familiar with the system able to make some suggests for cool powers in the book? Specifically for:

A Byronic Victorian hunter
A pair of twins who fuck around with taxidermy and Frankenstein's monsters (Player gains 'Crafts (Frankensteinian) •••••' when they're possessed)
A highly religious Puritan who has been inadvertently doing the Devil's biding
A WW1 vet who who died of shellshock

>> No.55480493

>>55480467
If it helps, I was thinking around 3 dot powers, though I'm not sure how the scaling is for Geist.

>> No.55480627

>>55480467
Could use some Benedictines from Hunter as divine powers for the Puritan.

>> No.55480654

Does anyone know of any online Mage games that are recruiting?

>> No.55480732

>>55480654
Your best bet is to lurk in the other prominent communities. RPG.net and OPP Forums. Just googling won't find you many recent ones, and you might even be able to straight up ask somebody to run one for you, if you like the cut of their jib. There are some on Roll20 you might be able to get in on, but they didn't look too promising to me.

>> No.55480734

>>55475151
I'm replying a bit late but I wanted to thank you anyways for the tips.

Also do you have any ideas where I should look for a rough idea of what stats an object animated with this path or a summoned elemental should have?

>> No.55480799

>>55475594
Do we know what causes Ansho ?

>> No.55480852

>>55480799
If we did, it wouldn't be much of a Mystery. Running theories involve Abyssal and Lower Depths interference.

>> No.55480970

>>55480119
>Ruling can add the 8-again or 9-again qualities to your dicepool.

Would a valid Space spell be giving yourself 9 again on shooting as you forcibly flatten space between yourself and the target? Because that sounds pretty useful.

>> No.55481060

>>55480970
Depends on what you mean by forcibly flattening space.

>> No.55481065

>>55480799
Nope. You've got the standard "we wuz archmasterz n sheet" above. It might be some sort of thaumavore. They become less common the further you get from the geographic centre of tokyo, so there's something there. Hell, combine it with the beacons and nip culture and you've probably got some sort of consensus thing going on - people managing to smash magic because it's just not proper, and disruptive to society.
>>55480734
Sorry, no. We just used the stats of the stuff we originally animated for str/stamina, and the skill of the vampire using the path for finesse attributes like dex.

>> No.55481435

>>55480970
sounds legit

matter can give guns 8-9 again pretty easily i see no reason that you couldnt bend space or some shit to make shooting easier also.

>> No.55481456

>>55481065
Where do thaumavores come from then ?

>> No.55481468

>>55481060
I was imagining making it so little fuckups matter less, because the path still leads to the target. Not quite bullet bending around corner stuff, just better regular shooting. Because really, the bullet around corner trick isn't nearly as cool as other shit you can do with Alter Direction at that level

>> No.55481633

>>55481468
Yeah, you could probably do something like that. A "strike true" kind of thing. Something like you compress and focus a path of Space leading to the target, and the bullet flits along it, ignoring outside factors.

>> No.55481688

>>55481456
The moon.

>> No.55481727

The Ansho are really interesting Mystery, yes. Can Nasnasi or maybe Tremeres directly scrutinize them? How about antinomian spells? Spirit powers? Auspex?

>> No.55481751

>>55481727
In much the same way you can scrutinize outer space by sticking your face out an airlock and having a look, yeah.

If we ever get a tokyo book it might be expanded on, but I wouldn't count on it.

>> No.55481845

>>55481751
>tokyo book

fuck no.

>> No.55482190

>>55481845
There'll probably be one.

>> No.55482505

>>55482190
Not with that shittler Hill gone. it was his baby and nobody else will want to touch it

>> No.55483067

>>55482505

I'll do it.

>> No.55483120

>>55483067
Use the shadowrun book and file off most of the serial numbers. T Then you'll have people digging through other books and writing lengthly dissertations on why Shadowrun and WoD are a shared universe. It should keep them busy for months.

>> No.55483148

>>55483120
Can we still have a company run by an actual dragon or does it have to become metaphorical now

>> No.55483150

>>55483120

I'll do you one better: I'll reskin the extremely detailed travelogue part of Kuro RPG. No one will ever know.

>> No.55483274

Is there anything that stops you from taking Professional Training or Mystery Cult (influence) multiple times?

>> No.55483329

>>55483148
Sure, why not? Make it a perfected adept who went for the sixth attainment, skinned the dragon manifest and now wears the severed head. Beats anyone who calls him on it to death. Everything else is going to be weird as all get out anyway, why not that?

>> No.55483364

>>55483274
No, provided you can convince your GM. Character IC will be scheduled to within an inch of their life.

>> No.55483594

>>55483148
IIRC in WoD there's a true fae's avatar with draconic influences who uses the setting's equivalent of WalMart to basically "own" the whole planet in the Wyrd sense of the world

>> No.55483619

What's the most overpowered spell in Mage when crossover is involved?

And why is it Ban?

>> No.55483662

>>55483619
Kinetic Shield

>> No.55483821

>>55483619
Anything to do with gravity and/or lawn chairs

>> No.55483939 [DELETED] 
File: 2.83 MB, 1280x720, 1505616895373.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
55483939

Anyone ever seen a good homebrew Mage skellington-man lich Legacy?

>> No.55483957

>>55483619
RAW? Prime Veiling "Supernal Veil".

>> No.55484007
File: 2.83 MB, 1280x720, A night on the boards.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
55484007

Anyone ever seen a good homebrew Mage skellington-man lich Legacy?

>> No.55484044

>>55484007
skelemens are stupid

>> No.55484409

>>55484007

awakening or ascension?

>> No.55484423

>>55484007

>>55484409
Nevermind I missed the word legacy.

>> No.55484555

Huh. Finally got around to reading thousand years of night. Glad to see they could try doing elder tier stuff without going full retard and just making them into dbz nonsense.
And without being boring. Seeing some actually interesting and engaging material made me realize just how mind numbingly dull every part of imperial mysteries is

>> No.55484581

>>55484555
Has there been an errata yet?

>> No.55484603

>>55484581
Wouldn't know, just started reading

>> No.55485060

>>55484603
I bought it right when it came out. All the errors were kind of hilarious

>> No.55485544

>>55485539

>>
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