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/tg/ - Traditional Games

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[ERROR] No.54701554 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

>Medieval fantasy is the go-to genre for most TTRPGs
Why not space opera? Maybe I'm overlooking something, but wouldn't that make more sense as a genre/setting? Not only is the great expanse of space so vast that it makes your options quite literally unlimited and ever expanding, but various different campaigns and settings could very easily take place within the same universe or even the same galaxy, even if they're mutually contradictory in some parts. Even if you like your swords and your magic, you can still have them and you don't even need to rip off Star Wars per se.

It just makes more sense.

>> No.54701658

I'd say it's just harder to work with, you can do anything with fantasy and everyone'll go "alright" but with sci-fi everything has to be explained lest you get "ACKSHUALLY" five million times.

>> No.54701688

Why go for Elves in Space™ when you can have Elves Classic™ instead?

>> No.54701718

Because magic makes everything easier.

Really though the niftyness of fantasy has really been worn down over the last decade or so. Before it was a genre that was rarely explored to anyones satisfaction, now we have three hobbit movies, a harry potter franchise, how to train your dragon, and dozens of minor cartoons, movies, and series.

Not the same as when 'Wizards', LotR cartoon, and Willow made up the majority of an imaginations source material.

>> No.54701816

Fantasy is not meant to be realistic, so you have less people going into 'tism spasms since any weird inaccuracies within the setting can be hand-waved by "A Wizard did it."

Sci-Fi on the other hand requires much more inherent knowledge on how the world works because we have scientific knowledge on how physics would work IRL, so if you get shit wrong, every autist within range of a computer and a wikipedia page is going to give you the business because your spaceships didn't move exactly the right way in order for it to safely dock into a space station.

So it's generally easier to have things rooted in fantasy since it's the lowest hanging fruit for budding new writers.

>> No.54701826

Because D&D was fantasy and ultimately this is what shaped and shapes the perception of most people

>> No.54701841

magic tits >>>> space tits

>> No.54701862

>the great expanse of space so vast that it makes your options quite literally unlimited and ever expanding
That's the problem. Medieval fantasy works so well because basically everyone already knows how the setting works. You could grab a group of normies at random off the street, tell them they're playing a medieval fantasy game, and be fairly sure they'll be familiar with the general attributes of elves and dwarves and orcs, they'll know the difference between a fighter and a wizard, etc.

Space opera never really had a Lord of the Rings equivalent that codifies a set of tropes that universally apply to throughout the genre. If you tell people to picture a space opera setting, you'll get everything from Star Trek to Dune to Firefly. You'll need to spend a lot of time on exposition, and that's boring for new players.

>> No.54701946

I'd say it's the reverse.

The perceptions of most people are what shaped D&D into what it was. Hell, Gygax and Arneson fought hard and long against many of the ideas we now take for granted as "D&Disms", but only succumbed due to popular support for those ideas.

Later authors and designers rapidly discovered that while they could present their own tastes forward, the only pieces that people would pay attention to are the ones they liked. Popular opinion is what shapes fantasy, and that's why D&D's elves aren't quite like Tolkien's and why we don't see many of Gygax's favorite imposter-monsters around anymore.

>> No.54702285

The reason is that a sci-fi setting requires a lot more worldbuilding than a fantasy setting.

There are several related reason for this; one of the main ones is that fantasy settings tend to be themed around the past, while sci-fi settings are themed around the future. Fantasy settings tend to be low-tech with magic; since our own history is full of functional low-tech settings, we can look to the past to see how farming and government and warfare and all those things worked, before accounting for magic and the differences it makes.

Science fiction, in contrast, is based on more technologically advanced societies, which brings up a whole host of questions. Advanced technology tends to be more complicated, not just in a technical sense but in a practical sense that's directly relevant to the game. How does your setting's FTL work? What weapons can a character or ship have? How and where are they built, and what power supplies do they use? How good are your computers in cyberwarfare? How common are bionic implants? Who manufactures all these things? How does the law handle them? These are just a few of the questions that might come up in a sci-fi campaign, and you have to answer them for yourself. In the future, any field of technology could develop in any number of different ways, and we've got no solid guidelines for them because they haven't happened yet; you could look to other sci-fi for inspiration, but which do you choose and how does it fit together?

In any other story, most of these questions could be handwaved because you aren't presenting the entire setting at once. An RPG doesn't have that luxury. Unlike most authors, who are trying to tell a specific story in a specific part of their setting, you don't know in advance what the players will do or where they'll go; you can't simply handwave things like inter-ship space combat if it's not a major part of the story, because it might end up being a major part of someone's story.

>> No.54702310

You could do both

>> No.54702508

TTRPG fans largely want to wargame sans the 50x$100 vaguely orc-shaped monochrome plastic blops, and it's a physical pain in the ass to wargame plausible SF due to scales and added dimensions.

>> No.54705388

Because sci-fi attracts autistic assholes who just want excuses to whine and bitch at someone instead of creative nerds who want to enjoy themselves.
Which is also the reason why many experienced DM remove guns from their settings when playing with strangers in shops.

Something something too much money and welfare invested on gun.

>> No.54705608

Reminder that it is easier to build a Dyson Sphere, to the point that many scientists think it is inevitable part of the development of technological species, than to invent/build/feed an FTL engine, which would mean that time travel is not only possible but guarantied to happen.

>> No.54705659

FTL = Magic.

>> No.54705914

Something I wish more people would do with sci-fi is try and focus on a single planet or solar system, rather than having FTL and an entire galaxy to deal with.

Maybe it's just the sci-fi games I've played, but it always feels like once you give the players their own ship, the game loses a lot of tension. It's easy to fly away from any sort of danger, and if you only have the one ship then space combat is a constant TPK waiting to happen. Not only that, but space combat also ends up as a slog when everyone is just making the same skill check each turn to fire the guns or steer or whatever else.

Not only that, but having an entire galaxy available means that every planet you go to is going to be shallow by necessity. If you have to go somewhere, there's probably going to be only one important thing on the entire planet to look at, be it a city or a crashed ship or whatever else.

It becomes very tedious, and I've yet to see it work well in a game, be it as merchants, pirates, or military spec ops. You see one barren abandoned mining outpost, you've seen them all.

>> No.54706184

>dyson sphere
>not a dyson swarm

>> No.54706286

But if they focus on a single planet, it is usually cyberpunk and that genre is suitable for only a certain specific niche of people.

>> No.54706314

But big laser gun wielding elves in space suits.

>> No.54706349

Too much clothing.

>> No.54706376

Because D&D and its derivatives are medieval fantasy, and they're the most popular games by a huge margin. Take those away and the most popular settings are Star Wars and WH40k.

>> No.54706402

Elves in space have the benefit of coexisting with tons of other modern (or futuristic) creature comforts.

>> No.54706415

It's only cyberpunk if you decide to have corporations or the government ruling everything with an iron fist. Sci-fi doesn't automatically become a dystopia just because you can't hop over to another planet without worrying about any problems at the last one.

>> No.54706455

How do we fix this autist problem?

>> No.54706476

so more gundam than star wars?

im ok with that

>> No.54706484

You are correct and not wrong.
But reality is that most sci-fi setting that focus on a single planet usually is cyberpunk in nature.

>> No.54706497

Just ignore it?
There are room for everyone and all kind of genre.

>> No.54706507

I'm honestly surprised that Shadowrun is that high up.

>> No.54706679

The obvious solution is have problems that can follow them.

I get the issue of your ship blowing up just being random TPKs though. Perhaps find a mechanism by which the primary form of ship combat involves slinging them into the atmosphere of planets, forcing a crash landing and ground confrontation? Feels arbitrary but I'm sure there's a way to justify it.

>> No.54707358

A medieval world is roughly easy to predict.
A sci-fi world has to many common possibilities
>Instant long range communication
>Mass production of powerful and complex devices
>Extremely fast travel from one location to another
>Incompatible software/incomparable technical skill sets
>Powerful, precise long-range weaponry
>Fucking surveillance
and that's just our world before factoring in teleportation, functional AI, super-fuels, nano-machines and a whole host of other crazy bullshit that may or may not exist.
A GM has to know what does and does not exist and how it interacts with whatever else exists in a logical way. The players has to be able to anticipate what they might go up against at any given time.

Most really popular sci-fi adventures ignore security cameras almost entirely. 40k ignores most meaningful sci-fi tech all together. Dune lacks computers and still ends up crazy complicated. Starwars may have hyperdrive, droids and lasers but in practice it winds up being effectively fantasy WW2.

Technology is fantastical but what makes it a problem in terms of building an open game world is that it's common. Sci-fi is a world built by wizards. As crazy as D&D can get it is spared the fact that all in all wizardry is rare enough to be recognised as such. Life is normal until you encounter a spell or an enchanted dungeon or the magic-man himself. But otherwise life is somewhat predictable.
In a sci-fi world magic permeates life to the point where it, usually, isn't noticed anymore. Finding a way for that world to exist without flying apart the moment a PC touches it is no small feat.

>> No.54707415

As a guy with a computer science degree, the way hacking (and most other things worth computers) work in shadowrun (and some other games written by people who clearly have no idea how such things work) drive me absolutely nuts.

I have friends who have made similar complaints regarding their areas of expertise.

>> No.54707444

How does a Dyson sphere give you time travel?

People do that. It's near future scifi. Stuff like "humans" or "continuum"

>> No.54707463

Or Fringe, or "the 100"

>> No.54707498

Sounds like your autism tbqh

>> No.54707499


FTL gives you time travel. It is an inevitable consequence of the fabric of Space-Time.

>> No.54707522

Well, first you fix the actual problems. Then the "problem" of people noticing them will clear right up.

>> No.54707747


It's pretty common.

Elements that aren't stored to be magic working nothing like that should often annoys people who know how it should work.

Call it "my autism" all you like. For me it's bad compsci that bugs me. For the physicist I know it's ridiculous physics that are front and center. A history prof I know hates d&d's bullshit armor and weapon categories.

Deny it and namecall all you like. Bullshit inaccuracies of real stuff annoys lots of people.

Like this guy >>54707522

>> No.54707759

Aren't supposed*
working nothing like *

>> No.54707834

Shadowrun computers are literally the worst example because they're NOT things which exist in real life.

>> No.54707896

Because "go into the dungeon and slay the monsters and walk out with gold" is really easy to run

>> No.54707995

Starfinder aims to be the "Shadowrun of Space Opera" so maybe this will all change. It's too bad it's 3.5/PF version 2.0 so nobody but a subset of people still playing Pathfinder will actually put up with it.

>> No.54708011

A commlink is just an advanced smartphone type portable machine hooked up to future Google glass.

A cyber terminal is a pc hooked up to vr hardware for the vr interface on the internet.

A cyber deck is a high end terminal with software like a VPN, or onion routing, combined with Mac address spoofing, and ad blockers & always running the browser in private tabs.

It's all shit that you could build today, just better versions of it.

It's still ogc.

I expect if it's got anything good in it we'll see it ported for 5e compatibility, like ultimate campaign.

>> No.54708032

Why are space suits so sexy?

>> No.54708078

Yet they thought it was too hard to give players spaceships.

>> No.54708092

Eh? You don't have a spaceship?

>> No.54708112

Spaceships are overrated.

All you need is a 4-5 man team and a setting filled with Stargates.

>> No.54708116

Fuck are the pathfinder gun rules ever nonsense.

>armor doesn't work, you have to dodge the bullets!

>> No.54708154

A commlink could also be a smart watch.

And they pair with everything using what is just future Bluetooth.

>> No.54708236

I'm 90% sure that they wanted to do "only use armor" originally, but then took a look at their monster manuals and realized that it'd make guns fucking worthless.

>> No.54708275

Why? Bows don't ignore armor and they're fine.

>> No.54708398

At least they dropped all that for starfinder.

>> No.54708483

Because of reload times.

Monsters usually have 0 dodge AC, so they'd have no benefit over bows, but have shittier relooad times, range, and also have the misfire chance.

>> No.54708541

You encounter a dragon.

Medieval game:
>Ok cool, this fits with the setting. Let's figure out how to kill this dragon.

Space game:
> What the fuck, there's no way a creature as large as a dragon could exist due to the square-cube law, and furthermore [AUTISTIC SCREECHING]

>> No.54708572

> implying encountering big alien creatures isn't a part of sci-fi

>> No.54708611

It isn't. Sci-fi fans are, as a rule, way too fucking autistic to let that sort of thing slide. If it comes up, you can bet there will be no end of bitching and ACKXTUALLY bullshit.

>> No.54708633

Encountering big alien creatures is fun, which is the antithesis of autism, which is badwrongfun and REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

>> No.54708668

Guns choke out a lot of different options and don't feel very distinct (with some exceptions, flamers and grenade launchers).
Psykers usually have a very weird position in space opera games.
The setting usually becomes so big that it's hard for players to get invested in them.
There's not a lot of easy access systems for space opera systems, nor a lot of pre made 'adventures'.
Character variety is usually very superficial (lack of classes and races).
Vehicles usually end up playing a big role, but there's usually poor mechanics for handling them.

>> No.54708675


medieval game biggest eneemy is a dragon or something, in space it's smugglers / a space navy / timmy forgot to change the nutrients in the environmental systems and now we have 4 days to get to a space station before we all suffocate

>> No.54708717

>people who know how it should work.
But you don't know how it should work. Shadowrun, for example, diverged from the real world sometime in the 80s (I think), and has had (as of 5e) 95 years of technological development that's not necessarily the same as ours, combined with two major global network failures. Even CP2020 has 30-40 years of divergent technological evolution. Expecting their tech to work in the same way as ours is fucking stupid.

>> No.54708723

You can replicate a Fireball spell with an M34, too, doesn't mean that you should sperg out over D&D making it out of wizard mumbles rather than refined batshit.

>> No.54708783

No one cares. Shut up.

>> No.54708801

Not implying. Stating. "Encountering big alien creatures" pretty much doesn't happen in sci-fi because of how intensely autistic the entire genre is. You'll be lucky to get away with encountering alien microbes, let alone an alien dragon.

>> No.54708805

Ill tell you why, because some autistic tech nerd always spergs out about the technology of the setting and is super critical and ruins the immersion.
It's easier to jut use magic so you don't have to argue with some guy with a STEM degree about how so and so "wouldn't really happen"

>> No.54708819

Don't call your space opera "sci-fi".

>> No.54708829


Well if you really want to go that deep real hacking isn't just sitting in a basement and typing away at a command line like hackerman. You're better off smooth talking your way into your target building with fake credentials and trying to convince people to give you their passwords and access to secure databases so you can run security analysis while in reality you are just copying pasting credit card information on a thumbdrive.

I should know, this situation almost played out exactly like this for the company I work at.

>> No.54708844

Because sci-fi is one of the worst, if not the worst, genre out there. It is an insufferable genre that attracts insufferable people for no reason other than that it gives them an excuse to complain about every little detail. Look at every single sci-fi fandom and you'll see that, plain as day. These are people incapable of simply enjoying something without trying to prove how superior they are.

>> No.54708922

Because even in a soft space opera you need to account for much more things than in most fantasy settings.

Like say even a simple small space federation may have 5-7 different species with different bodytypes, equipment, traditions and so on. Even if we don't account for more any scientific things like differences in food, biology and so on going with more or less space fantasy it is still much more massive in scale.

>> No.54708923

Unfortunately, this is true. I've got a copy of William Gibson's Burning Chrome, and it's got an ad in the back for Interzone. It's the most up-itself ad I've ever seen. For reference, the "modern" it's talking about is 1995.

>Science Fiction is Not Dead!
>Life's too short for the mindless spectacle of most modern visual SF. The chances are you got interested in science fiction because you like the mind-stretch you get from new ideas - and you only find that in the written word.
>Long Live SF!
>Science Fiction is alive and kicking in the UK. Every month half a dozen challenging new science fiction and fantasy tales appear in Britain's best SF magazine - INTERZONE

>> No.54709052

> "Encountering big alien creatures" pretty much doesn't happen in sci-fi

>> No.54709087

Pretty much every big sci-fi franchise has its fair share of big alien creatures.

>> No.54709102

>> No.54709111

>> No.54709129

>> No.54709219

Way to prove his point. It's like you people have zero fucking self-awareness.

>> No.54709593

We were talking about good franchises only friendo :^)

>> No.54709666


>> No.54709725

Frankly the only people who have these sorts of problems are people with crippling levels of autism and very pointed and specific interests and they all seem to congregate here. I don't think normal people have any problem accepting a sci-fi or fantasy setting beyond what interests them and arn't bogged down by such things like getting pissy because a sci-fi series doesn't do FTL travel the "right way" or that a fantasy setting has guns because how else are you going to stay pure to Tolkiens formula of faggot ubermencse elf songs and dwarves with tourettes syndrome and poor dirt farmers

>> No.54709873

Por que no los dos

>> No.54709926

its more like they are getting pissed of by unrealistic things explained through "its the future"
you can explain unnatural or unlogical things in a fantasy setting with magic, but you cant do the same in sci - fi
call it autism but breaking fundamental laws of physics or other shit is just retarded and not cool

>> No.54709967


Sure, let's scrap every sci-fi epic that has massive ship battles in space because you sure as hell arn't going to have dog fights in space ships let alone mechs dueling it out with energy swords and guns.

Let's throw away the cool space suits because there's no way you could have the sort of miniutirzed tech and power sources to power small co2 scrubbers that would last you days or shit like still suits from Dune.

It is autism, if you're willing to accept faggot elf songs, dwarves and dragons why is it so hard to accept space ships, anti-gravity, and sword based combat guns are prevelent?

>> No.54710015

Theres nothing stopping physics in a fictional universe working differently than in our own. And even then, our understanding of the universe and technology is completely different from 200 years ago, why would there not be new discoveries which change the way we understand the universe 200 years in the future?

>> No.54710066

This post is an exemplar of why modern sci-fi is really hamstrung. You've got a genre loaded up with fans who automatically cry about realism and care more about poking holes while willfully resisting verisimilitude. It's like the modern horror fans who actively resist being scared then call every movie dogshit because it didn't scare them and jump scares don't count just because.

>> No.54710119


1) Don't play with autists
2) If you must play with autists, tell them to shut the fuck up when they go ACKSHUALLY

>> No.54710159

i can live with it to a point, but it also gets ludicrous at times
i also dislike retarded things in fantasy and "historical" settings like retarded displays of martial arts which also puts me off quite frequently in movies and video games
just putting in things that look cool doesnt overshadow that they are nonsensical and stupid
some scifi works also pretend like they bear any resemblance to reality, which most works of fantasy do not

>> No.54710194


severely underrated post

>> No.54710207

Fantasy as a setting allows for individuals to make a difference. As technology advances the impact any one person can have with their own two hands decreases and it becomes more and more about organizations.

>> No.54710241

This is obscenely false, both in reality and almost universally in fiction.

>> No.54710242

So what system has a good rule set for vehicle mechanics? I do get that most of them suck but what's the most "realistic" system?

>> No.54710294

Why is it only the nerd sciences that go into autistic rages when a game does their shit wrong? I'm a doctor and I never bitch about how retarded the fakey medical shit in sci-fi games is.

>> No.54710366

Well there is GURPS Vehicles. But many even GURPS fans consider it pretty dense.

New GURPS Spaceships is actually pretty nice. Though at basic it works with more or less realistic approach so combat is a rocket tag with glass cannons everywhere. You can transform it into a space opera setting but you'll need some experience to do it just right.

Mutants&Masterminds should be pretty great for soft space opera with crazy technologies on a run.

>> No.54710413

Well jump scares literally aren't scary, they're startling. They can be employed effectively to create a break in the mood by relieving the tension built up by atmosphere, but just having jump scares without effective set up is hackey writing.

>> No.54710417

If you were just doing basic soccer mom vehicles what system would you borrow from for mechanics?

>> No.54710447

M&M definitely. It doesn't go into any technical details and has all the needed stats. If you want to concentrate on characters instead of vehicles/spaceships it is much better.

If I ever get to run a space military game I'd probably use something like GURPS Spaceships. Maybe a little trimmed down in some parts.

>> No.54710487


>> No.54710511

Thanks for the info Anon.

>> No.54710747


No, seriously. I've yet to find a good system which can handle spaceship combat in a way where all the players feel like they're contributing and get engaged. The only real way is to give each player their own ship, but then either they can't interact out of combat or they're all piloting fighters and every fight is an escort mission. There are no good options.

>> No.54710769

Ah, so when you complained about "screeching", you were actually complaining about people pointing out your errors, which your mind interprets as incoherent offensive noise.

>> No.54710874

>fall in love with Eclipse Phase
>try to GM a few times but it didn't click with, they don't really like sci-fi
>look online for other groups playing it in my country
>last google result in my native language is from 2 years ago
>last fagbook result is from 5 years ago
I just want to play this fucking game.

>> No.54710916

Answer any "well ackshually" with a faint smile and "you're right, that doesn't seem quite right, does it?" With luck they'll either decide something's up and get too invested in solving that riddle to kick up a fuss, and if not then eventually they'll get frustrated that you won't engage and stop complaining.

>> No.54711044

>the solution to being wrong is to be intellectually cowardly and smug about it
Your worldbuilding skills are remarkable.

>> No.54711099

I played in a game where characters were mech pilots. And mechs were basically a second main force in the fleet after line ships.

So big engagements were run by battleships and the like with mechs providing support and escorting them. And all smaller engagements consisted of a carrier, on which we were based, maybe 2-3 specialised smaller ships and mech wings doing the main work.

It was mostly tied to the fact that defensive systems that humans used in a setting didn't get much better with ship size. Unless of course you built some overengineered monstrosity of a battleship. So smaller mechas that could also use effective neural connections were pretty good.

>> No.54711121

It doesn't any longer even get general threads here. The last time was like a couple of months ago.

>> No.54711188

I'm sorry that I'm not willing to sink time and effort into detailing every inane thing just to keep a few autists from shitting themselves in REEEEEEEEEEEEEEAGE!

I don't care about the mechanics of why the Millennium Falcon is able to go into hyperjump, I'm just here to watch light saber battles and shit.

>> No.54711220

You'd have more time if you spent less of it flooding every conversation with strawman tears in hopes that people will stop trying to reason with you.

>> No.54711254

Well autists would generally be able to enjoy more things if they calmed the fuck down and accepted that just because shit's happening in space as opposed to a generic fantasy setting, it doesn't mean that the setting is inherently more realistic.

>> No.54711256

At this point it seems evident that we are one of the first if not the first technoloical species of the galaxy. Any species could colonize the galaxy within a million years. The evidence of their precense would be everywhere. A million years is nothing on the timescale. We also dont see evidence of ancient civilizations tampering with star in other galaxies as one would expect to see. The possible answer is that rare Earth hypothesis is actually right and technological species are rare even if life is common in the universe. Evolution takes time and energy. Our planet remained a slimeball of unicellular life for billions of years. Our sun is bigger than the average yellow star. Smaller planets or planets with smaller habitable zone, like those tidal looked orbiting the more numerous red stars, would have less interactions for evolution like. Meanwhile life evolved on giants wouldnt have time at all since the bigger the star, the shorter their life to the point that not a single red dwarf has ever died. The universe is technically too young. Out of all Earth-like planets that there will ever be Earth is early. Meanwhile, earlier outliners would have been wiped out by gamma ray burst more common when the universe was younger.

>> No.54711259

>Not only is the great expanse of space so vast that it makes your options quite literally unlimited and ever expanding

That's supposed to be a GOOD thing? Increasing scale past certain point only makes things more difficult for the GM for no benefit whatsoever.

>> No.54711260

Also arguably the high orbit and some satelites count easily as part of the planet, setting wise of course.

>> No.54711262

>Not the same as when 'Wizards', LotR cartoon, and Willow made up the majority of an imaginations source material.

Don't forget Conan tho.

>> No.54711281

I find that most scifi is barren, drinks too much from star wars, a shallow and limited universe. Real scifi is much more ambituous.

>> No.54711322

Obviously science fantasy is what you should be running.

Nothing better than the Age of Sail in Space, or Space Westerns with Tao Magic wielding Space Pirates.

>> No.54711346

My buddy and I had a discussion about this the other day. Thing is with fantasy, it creates a lot of "short hand." You say "Let's play a fantasy game!" and people think "Okay, dark wizards, evil barons, rescuing princesses from dragons, elves, dwarves" even if those things aren't around in your setting. On the other hand, you say "Let's play a space game!" and none of that happens. They might think Star Wars, Star Trek, Mass Effect, Bab-5, whatever. There's no base line for space operas like there is for fantasy. Want to write a fantasy novel and include elves? Go for it. Want to write a sci-fi novel and include vulcans? Better not. Each one is its own instance with the only baseline being "Space and spaceships."

>> No.54711665

Science fantasy does not escape from any of the problems stated in the thread since technology is still present, albeit in lesser amount.

>> No.54711740


It's only a problem because autist like you make it a problem. That's like saying fantasy isn't fantasy if you give an elf a fucking cell phone.

>> No.54711778

Unless we give the setting full Metabaron treatment yes it not a fantasy. Because cell phone implies a lot of things even if for the moment we will ignore everything that allows to create one.

>> No.54711920


Let me guess, next you're going to tell me that having people with HONOR and having knights is impossible because guns exist because apparently to people like you knights are D&D classes and not simply a title for a class of people in the same vain as Samurai.

>> No.54711955

>vain as Samurai.
absolutely agree
totally vain these posers

>> No.54712116

No all ask you what exactly makes them knights besides the title on paper and honour. Because in current world and many sci-fi ones it is pretty hard to be a local protector single-handedly (or with help of a couple of your armsmen).

Also what are the genres and themes of the supposed game/book?

>> No.54712163


That would depend on the setting on what constitutes a knight and the requirements for them. Then again, I don't assume they automatically copy or have the same limitations as in real life so maybe this is just a point that can never be reconciled with people .

>> No.54712230

So basically knight becomes anything. Then why do you bring it up at all? Your whole argument kind of doesn't make sense because on hand you are saying that knights are based on the class of people that got their power through arms (or arms of their ancestors) and on the other you say that knight may be anything DM wants and completely depends on the setting.

What was the point?

>> No.54712275


The point is turbo autist like you have no sense of imagination. If in a particular setting knights are suppose to be protectors of the realm or if in another setting it's an ancestoral title of nobility it doesn't fucking matter but to people like you it blows your fucking mind until you REEEEE the universe to implode because it doesn't fit your exacting level of autism. If you need or what to play a game that is ultra realistic and only adheres to real world standards then don't bother the rest of us who arn't crippled like you.

>> No.54712696

What is that and which game is it from?

>> No.54712731

There are multiple reasons why we might not be seeing signs of earlier civilizations. It's entirely possible that technological civilizations are common, and just tend to self-destruct, or just don't expand beyond their solar system for some reason. There's also plenty of things that COULD be signs of other civilizations or remnants of earlier civilizations, and we're just not interpreting them like that because we don't see that as a likely scenario. It's certainly a POSSIBILITY that we're one of the first civilizations in our galaxy, but there's too much we simply don't know for us to hold that as evident.

>> No.54712932

Right now it seems like it's you who have problems with understanding that things are kind of entangled within the game world. You can't say there are cell phones and then say that they suddenly don't work without giving a reason.

Same goes for knights. If you completely change what a word supposed to mean you either should establish it long before PC meet them or stop trying to make any settings. Because that's not a worldbuilding that's some kind of lazy ass shit writing that won't get passing grade even at school.

>> No.54712980

Normal people won't care if your story knows the difference between a longsword and an arming sword, nor will they care that a knight means something besides a title.

In fact, going into pointless detail about bullshit that matters less than the TP I used to wipe my ass this morning is what gives us shit like LOTR, where you'll find five pages of purple prose written about the color of grass because authors back then were paid by the word, not by the content they were creating.

Stop the bullshit, skip the prose, get to the fucking point already.

>> No.54713129

But they would care if you call an axe a sword. Or if you say that suddenly the sword (axe) doesn't work. It may seem like a ridiculous strawman but similar things happens constantly in works of fiction. With heroes forgetting what they can do due to author forgetting it or suddenly finding out that his "genius" plot doesn't work.

In a book at least author may stop and rewrite some parts of his story to make sense. If he is a good author (many just don't care). But you won't be able to do it in an RPG while playing with other people. At least not without looking like a complete douche.

Why miniscule details may not be needed internal consistency is more or less mandatory in RPG settings. And it is harder to do in sci-fi settings than in fantasy. Because in fantasy you can say that some rare skill or ability is known only by one guy who is a bastard that won't teach anyone. And number of such abilities can be pretty large before it starts grating on players. In sci-fi large numbers of "unobtanium" minerals gets stale pretty fast due to gene conventions and make setting look ridiculous.

>> No.54713862


This is complete bullshit and you know it. Being sci-fi doesn't automatically make certain things different. If there was only one guy who knew the process to make unobtanioum or how to mine and he didn't share it and died then people would be fucked.

This is all you're weird ass perception of technology and sci-fi in general. As long as the setting follows it's own rules and stays true to it's own form of internal consistancy who the fuck cares. Well, except for you of course.

>> No.54713961

Legions of autists hold sci-fi to an arbitrarily high regard because space is something that exists within our reality while dragons don't.

There's no difference between [dangerous secret technique lost to time] and [rare material whose mining techniques were lost to time] beyond your weird perception that sci-fi has to follow the rules of reality while fantasy doesn't.

So basically, sci-fi all has to be the same for the same reasons why Martials continue to suck ass in D&D. People think that it should be realistic and if it's not, it's suddenly anime and REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

>> No.54714176

Starfinder aims to not fail
And it's aim is off

>> No.54714227

People already know what standard fantasy is, and rpgs run much smoother if players are familiar with the setting on at least a surface level
You don't need to exposition at players for them to know what dwarves are, but you can still make up the specifics of this particular dwarf fort/kingdom
With space opera there is very little in the way of preconceptions, so using it as an rpg is a little trickier

Also it was first and never left

>> No.54714256

because I already don't know shit about modern technology
how the hell am I supposed to make a consistent sci-fi setting

>> No.54714278

Thanks, they are. Maybe one day you'll learn to just ignore irrelevant details instead of wasting hours trying to satisfy someone who's actively trying to pick fights.

>> No.54714290

It's literally the difference between sci-fi and fantasy. Sci-fi, even soft ones, try to work at least some of implications of its tech into the story. Fantasy just says that it's rare and doesn't involve it in actual worldbuilding.

At how many "rare minerals" will you stop? 10? 20? 100? And how will your world look after this ?

>> No.54714306

A Dimensional Horror and Stellaris.

>> No.54714385

>It's literally the difference between sci-fi and fantasy.
Back then, the differences between sci-fi and fantasy were largely immaterial.

Look at Star Wars, if you took away the space ships, laser weapons, and light sabers, a lot of conventions wouldn't be out of place in your standard fantasy novel.

John Carter of Mars is basically a story about a dude who gets sent to Mars and becomes a superhuman due to the lower gravity while fighting monsters and romancing space princesses.

Fucking Ultima starts off as a fantasy game and ends with you building a rocket to go off into space.

The only reason why you don't see that now is because autists can't handle it when fantasy and sci-fi merge, so it becomes much rarer to see in comparison to shit like "urban fantasy."

>> No.54714409

>As crazy as D&D can get it is spared the fact that all in all wizardry is rare enough to be recognised as such.
Not really. D&D is non fucntional with truly rare wizardy. The writers just ignore it because most people don't realize several cantrips/first level spells pretty much solve shit like world hunger.

>> No.54714491


So basically what you're saying is not only fantasy lazy world building but the uniqueness of it pales in comparison because it doesn't require learning anything about the setting. What is it like to be a commoner in this setting? What major powers and factions do I have to deal with? What is day to day life like?

You act like these answers are automatic in fantasy and not in sci-fi so I can't help but wonder if you're not just trolling or something.

>> No.54714501

...you do realize that neither Burroughs' Mars nor Star Wars are actually sci-fi, right? They're about as far from sci-fi as you can get, idiots just try to shove that classification on them because there are space ships and vaguely futuristic setting.

>> No.54714540

Nah, I can handle it. I just call it space fantasy.

Though in this case there is rarely a reason to do it in space. Because most of the time it becomes much easier to do in a normal fantasy setting with much stronger tropes for races and other shit.

>> No.54714552


I guess that's why you glossed over this part of his post

>Back then, the differences between sci-fi and fantasy were largely immaterial.

And I agree, only turbo autist have made such a hard distinction between fantasy and sci-fi to create this rift where dragons and spaceships in the same setting are somehow anathama or too much for normie minds to handle.

If you want to enjoy your faggot elf song and europenis centric fantasy settings than fine but stop fucking it for the rest of us.

>> No.54714629

No, I'm saying fantasy takes things that should in theory change the course of its history much easier than sci-fi.

Many things like say magic depend on individuals using them. Or the fact that unless we are playing high fantasy with a lot of magic travelling takes a lot of time and can be pretty dangerous. Things do not always mix so much and are not interconnected so hard. They are easier to manage.

Lazy authors are sadly a norm in any genre.

>> No.54714844

There's a difference between being lazy and refusing to do unnecessary work. If the worldbuilding doesn't actually make a difference for the story you want to tell, why spend the time and effort? It's often even counterproductive, since establishing it takes up space that could be used to tell your story and will just bore the vast majority of readers in the hope of chasing the approval of a couple spergs.

>> No.54714911

>No, I'm saying fantasy takes things that should in theory change the course of its history much easier than sci-fi.

Why? What does this even mean?

>Many things like say magic depend on individuals using them.

And not everyone in a sci-fi setting is a super computer hackerman master either

> Or the fact that unless we are playing high fantasy with a lot of magic travelling takes a lot of time and can be pretty dangerous. Things do not always mix so much and are not interconnected so hard. They are easier to manage.

So things like cities or towns with roads from one place to another don't exist in fantasy settings that allow you to have a relatively safe and effiencent means to travel or places outside of mega cities and high populous high tech places can never exist in a sci-fi setting?

I feel you may think people lack the ability to grasp and understand the worldbuilding of a setting for sci-fi because it's assumed, by you at least, that there is no difficulty in anything because of technology that suddenly you're not in any more danger going from point a to point b because you have a car versus a wagon

>> No.54715003

Soon. Prime 4.

>> No.54715068


>> No.54715294

Even in 40k chances of never coming out of the warp jump are lower than for a merchant to die while travelling from one side of the kingdom to the other. If your world resembles anything like medieval times or base D&D setting.

>> No.54715351


But merchant vessels also travel well established void routes and never stay in the warp for extended periods of time as would naval vessels and RT ships who do often have to go in uncharted parts of space but then again they have navigators to help them accomplish this as well.

The point I'm making is that the anon I'm responding to is making it sound like it's impossible for people to understand or grasp things in a sci-fi setting because of the technology which is absurd to me and should be to anyone else.

That would be like saying knives arn't dangerous because we have guns.

>> No.54715458

There aren't enought Dyson megastructures in scifi. Many setting cant grasp any more thab beyond 1 planet 1 (small) town.

>> No.54715596

>Though in this case there is rarely a reason to do it in space. Because most of the time it becomes much easier to do in a normal fantasy setting with much stronger tropes for races and other shit.
Why though?

Anything that makes unrealistic shit possible in fantasy is just as possible in a sci-fi setting, it's just that turbo autists only care about realism in space because somehow, sci-fi is meant to be inherently more realistic for some weird reason.

>> No.54715658

If you don't want your players to object to what you consider unimportant details just make sure to explain to them that you won't bother with such things before the game starts. For example tell them that the game will work kind of like many Star Treck episodes where things are explained with vague/nonsensical technobabble and where internal inconsistencies are accepted.

If they still want to play in your game, they will have accepted those things and if they still insists on complaining you should seriously consider looking for new players.

>> No.54715665

Reminder that no man will ever be fortunate enough to make babies with SamASS

It's not possible to impregnate through anal last time I checked.

>> No.54715713

That, and that she is a horrific abomination on a genetic level, and only appears human.

>> No.54715722


>> No.54715797

No I meant it's just less work for GM to prepare the game this way. If you are not going to use anything from what the space setting gives you over the medieval one why spend additional time on fleshing it out?

If you want to run a lot of consecutive games in it or a large campaign where players will get to do a lot of stuff than maybe it will be worth it.

>> No.54715826

Why dont you mine the Sun?

>> No.54715948

I had somewhere a concept of space knights using stars to power their mechas (or other things, from doesn't matter that much). Giant plates are added to star poles gathering energy from close distance and transferring it directly to a mech to power up it's systems. The only thing that can stand a small chance at taking on such machines are either mechs or massed fleets of ships loaded up to the brim by antimatter and different weapons based on it.

So star knights control one or a couple of systems and more or less only other knights can challenge them. Or someone who is willing to shunt a lot of work into arming an antimatter based fleet and is okay with losing a couple of hundreds of ships to kill one knight.

>> No.54716006

>No I meant it's just less work for GM to prepare the game this way. If you are not going to use anything from what the space setting gives you over the medieval one why spend additional time on fleshing it out?
For the same reasons why most fantasy settings only focus on a continent rather than the entirety of the world?

Again, why am I expected to use an entire galaxy just because I'm writing a story where space travel is possible? I mean, what sci-fi setting in our reality goes through the trouble of maping out every possible planet that you could land on within that setting's universe?

>> No.54716183



>> No.54716199

If you write a story no one cares what you do in your spare time. If you play a game it is. Because you never can be sure what exactly players will do. Even if you do not have a whole setting mapped out you need some basic facts about tech/psionics/whatever be known and consistent. Or you'll start getting troubles with keeping your improvisations up to at least minimal scrutiny when players inevitably poke their fingers into some interesting to them place.

>> No.54716212


I find it curious how much of scifi wastes time with FTL instead of something actually awesome and plausible.

>> No.54716236

You say that like it's a bad thing.

>> No.54716239

>I played in a game where characters were mech pilots. And mechs were basically a second main force in the fleet after line ships.
I like that idea after playing a lot of Sunrider. Could you tell me what system you used by any chance?

>> No.54716241

"Fantasy" as a generic milieu has become a sort of instantly-recognizable cultural background radiation that anyone can sink into without much thought or study.

"Sci-fi" is much more reliant on each author's individual prediction, thus a higher barrier to entry.

>> No.54716265

>Even if you do not have a whole setting mapped out you need some basic facts about tech/psionics/whatever be known and consistent.
Okay, that has nothing to do with mapping out an entire galaxy though.
>Or you'll start getting troubles with keeping your improvisations up to at least minimal scrutiny when players inevitably poke their fingers into some interesting to them
How is that any less of a problem in fantasy?

>> No.54716657

>How is that any less of a problem in fantasy?
As other anons before pointed out more established tropes and standards that allow easier immersion without providing additional information to the players. Unless you run some unorthodox fantasy setting.

I don't actually care about plausibility only consistency of a setting. As long as I can establish some part as integral to the world without it looking out of place or ridiculous I don't care how scientifically viable it is.

>> No.54716803

GM made his own system. And considering that he was a veteran RPG player and had math education it was pretty good.

Characters had 3 main stats for close combat, long range combat and tech. You choose their importance to your character and than could also upgrade some parts of them. Like say upping Dodge in close combat or Missiles in long range.

During combat characters could do from 1 to three basic actions. With 2 being the standard number. If you were doing only one you were getting a bonus and if you were doing 3 you were getting a penalty on rolls. There were also "techniques" that allowed you to do more actions in specific combinations, modified your actions and other things.

Of course what mech you were using also modified the effectiveness of your actions.

>> No.54716817

we need to talk about space elevators
space elevators are the coolest fucking things

>> No.54717130

I bet the maintainance on those things will be hysterical.
>Making one trip = 100+ days of being ABSOLUTELY SURE nothing is wrong.

How long would it take to go from ground to orbit with one?

>> No.54717244

The capacity to suspend one's disbelief is equal to one's enjoyment of science fiction.

>> No.54717280

>reload time.
>miss chance.

The you make weapons that don't suck.

Maybe guns cause bleed damage that you've done the math to ensure it at least keeps up with bows.
Or you make the damage really good to be worth the several attacks you're losing and have that damage scale with your level or something.

>> No.54717528

We can't

>> No.54717719

>so you have less people going into 'tism spasms
You're full of shit.

>> No.54717825

>"Fantasy does not escape from any of the problems stated in the thread since technology is still present."

See how fucking dumb you're being? We've had professional engineers since the Bronze Age you ignorant nigger. Technology has always been a part of human society.

>> No.54717827

Based on this thread, it seems to me like most of the autistic screeching is coming from people who hate sci-fi.

>> No.54717887


>> No.54718022

But she appears like a really hot human, so it's all good.

>> No.54718080


>> No.54718282

Solar Sails?

>> No.54718311

>"Wah, what are we going to do on the bed anon-kun?"

>> No.54718403

>Gygax and Arneson fought hard and long against many of the ideas we now take for granted as "D&Disms"
What were some of these? I'm unfamiliar with older editions.

>> No.54718617

The idea of good-aligned monster races, for example. Gygax was very adamant that all orcs, even newborn orcs, are evil by nature.

>> No.54718896

This was about mechanics that were narrativist shoved in your simulation is gamist rpg.

But yes. People still get pissy about inaccurate fantasy.

>> No.54719645

>on encountering a sapient species of colossal size
"Dude, their planet has multifold more oxygen in its atmosphere than earth. As a result the native life is things like four-foot long pseudo-centipedes as thick as your arm. Think Cretacious era times one point five for perspective.

As a result, the hexipodal reptilians with omnidexterous double-bifurcated tongue-analogue organs are dragon sized.

and they aren't breathing fire: they just hold their plasma casters in their mouths.... the same way they hold pretty much everything. Isn't it dangerous? no more dangerous than holding a plasma caster in your hand: if one is going to go, it's taking you with it."

Honestly, the hardest part for these guys was figuring out how to make a spacesuit for them that would let them use their mouths against the cruelties of the vacuum, but still let them breathe... Short answer: harmonica-esque controls inside for external tentacle manipulators on their faces.

They can also kinda use their front - and - middle sets of legs as manipulators, but that's like an adult human using their toes to do stuff: weird but not impossible.

Anyway, the dragon is baring its massive serrated teeth at you, beyond which you can see fire dancing in it's throat... it shouts a very brief phrase, which your translators prock as "Intruders! Halt!"

>> No.54719684

Make fun of them
Complaining that something isn't hard sci-fi is the same as complaining that it isn't a conspiracy thriller or a rom-com
If you feel like being more subtle, start to deliberately get things relating to their field of expertise wrong

>> No.54719742

>inaccurate fantasy.
What does this even fucking mean?

Can understand if you're applying this to a specific, pre-existing setting, like Conan or LotR or GRRM or something. But outside of established settings and lore, does "inaccurate fantasy" have any actual meaning? It's fantasy for fucks sake. As long as everything is internally consistent, who gives a shit what rules are different?

>> No.54720057

>ummmm ackshully there's no way this science fiction tech could possibly work because-
>sorry we've got to reschedule to that one time period you said you aren't going to be available

Simple and effective solution to the problem

>> No.54720388

Game systems that come with their own settings address most of these problems eventually though, right?
What are your favorite futuristic RPGs?

>> No.54720393

Shit like Studded leather armor, and gambesons being worse than a leather jacket make lots of people irate.

>> No.54720427

this, plus rarely naming swords correctly

>> No.54720505

Those people need to learn that it's all based on Victorian-era 'history' knowledge, not real history.

>> No.54720540

I... I need a hug...

>> No.54720558

Because Medieval Fantasy provides an easy foundation of public domain source material to start with.

Most Space Opera settings on the other hand you have to start from scratch and so most alien races and settings created for Space Opera are subject to copyright.

>> No.54720666

> "Hurr durr I know you are but what am I?!"
Literally the most autistic retort ever
More proof that sci-fi fans have no self-awareness.

>> No.54720698

>Literally the most autistic retort ever

No, that would be rephrasing what the previous person said in a sillier way with "hurr durr" in front of it

>> No.54720946


having been DM for fantasy and sci-fi game settings I can tell you the big issues that sci-fi has are scaling, technological handicapping, and explanation.

in fantasy one madman with no money can do a ton of damage while in sci-fi the same dude would make it 10 feet before dying or becoming a non issue logically. scaling wise a threat in a sci-fi setting needs to be numerous, insanely wealthy, and/ or well connected and the party can only kill so many crime kingpins, CEOs, or aliens before it gets dull.

another glaring issue is technological handicapping. in a sci-fi world players have access to an endless list of technological assistance. one issue I had was "why are we doing_____ when this thing does it easier?" know that feeling of irritation when the one power gaming douche has that "bypass everything" build and abuses it so often you have to take away from the game and work solely on counteracting that one asshole? well compound that irritation a few times, make it at everyone, and all at even less of an expensebto the players than in most fantasy games.

and last as said by other posters explanation. Fantasy's best feature is easy explanations and world building. most conversations go
DM- "you see a floating clear orb glowing faintly"

players- "detect magic. is it magic? I bet it's magic. what kind of magic?"

DM- "yes magic. the magic makes it float."

players- "so a permanent levitate?"

DM- "OLD magic. don't bother rolling for it."

Same thing in a sci-fi setting would get picked apart harder than it should and require far more research than anyone should have to put into what should have just been a useless, but cool floating orb thing.

if you want to do a sci-fi campaign I suggest limiting the usefulness or availability of technology (ironically enough) or have a plot progression that takes those conveniences into account

>> No.54720972

Which is apparently what anti-sci-fi smuglets do whenever someone points out a logic error in their setting, if their frequent strawman arguments are any indication.

The result is as >>54717827 said. Most of the REEEEEEEE comes directly from their posts, but they say it represents people who criticize them, which is why the actual problem is that they're criticized and not that their settings fail to make logical sense.

For a good microcosm of this exchange, see here.

A smuglet babbles about how awful and offensive sci-fi fans are and how their evil stupid genre is totally incapable of doing something it does regularly.

The smuglet is proven wrong.

The smuglet claims that proving him wrong actually proved him right, because the thing he was actually accusing them of is correcting people when they're wrong. Apparently this is the real reason why they and their genre are bad and wrong and evil; the fault lies not with him for being wrong, but them for correcting him.

>> No.54720982

>Studded Leather Armor
This shit gets me irate, but I still have the maturity to accept it as a common, almost staple, trope.

That and it's fucking fiction. Out of all the things to be autistic about, why fictional works?

>> No.54721122

You can break immersion in a fantasy setting by introducing some narratively incongruent element too late in the game.

For instance: say i have a game world that is overseen by four major factions and four minor factions, all with complex interrelated politics, and then there are wandering monsters.

Now, suppose after a good setup and established narrative, i introduce a new faction, whose power is to command the wandering monsters?

Except, they are also implied to have long standing relations with all of the other major factions?

Like "We have always been at war with the Slaani Creature-commanders"

>> No.54721165

If your space setting doesn't have planet-crackers strip mining planets to the core, you are not ambitious enough.

>> No.54721211

>Why not space opera?
Because Gygax and Arneson made Dungeons & Dragons, not Asteroids & Androids.
Was that a serious question, or is it a statement disguised as a question?

>> No.54721271

>Why not space opera?
Less consistent. The core concept of medieval fantasy is pretty standard across games and systems, dudes with swords, bows, and armour, with varying amounts of magic sprinkled in. Space operas can be fucking anything in terms of technology and aesthetic ideas. Case and point is raygun gothic vs sleek scifi vs grimderp aesthetic all of which often have different technology levels and oftentimes in game mechanics.

Put simply when someone says medieval fantasy you instantly have what is probably a good idea of what they mean, if someone says space opera you cannot be certain.

>> No.54721290

You'll notice I mentioned internal consistency.

>> No.54723564

Please don't die, thread.
I'm still waiting for people to post their favorite RPG settings.

>> No.54723717

Machinations of the Space Princess for scifi, though Stars Without Number and its companion Other Dust are also fantastic and well designed games.

>> No.54723815 [DELETED] 

I really liked what I'd seen of the Stars Without Number setting, but the game just looked like standard class-based d20 fare.
Please tell me more about the crunch.

>> No.54723857


FWIW, as a liberal arts nerd (got the MA and everything) I tend to nerd rage at the sociohistorical shit people get wrong. My focus was SE Asia and man, the Shadowrun take on the region is a mess. They have no idea what ethnic groups live where, for starters.

>> No.54723887


Why, so we can see more of how people are simply unable to grasp that sci-fi settings arn't nearily as complicated as they are making them out to be?

>> No.54723896

ancient fantasy

>> No.54723924

Wuxia elements + knights + high fantasy setting.

>> No.54723958

Real quick, is there any actual benefits to having gundam-style mechs?

>> No.54723983


>> No.54723984

>the great expanse of space so vast that it makes your options quite literally unlimited and ever expanding
nothing the concept of other planes existence can't bring to the table.

>> No.54723988

>deleted other post for my stupidity, should have left it
D&D stats, d20 attack rolls & saving throws, simple looking classes
I forgot that skill checks were 2d6 in Stars Without Number

I really like the setting, but I'm not so sure about the crunch

>> No.54724002

or more than 1 world on the material plane, absolutely

>> No.54724017

I ain't even gonna argue with this

>> No.54724028

>Burroughs' Mars nor Star Wars are actually sci-fi, right?

Princess of Mars is one of the originators of the scifi genre, and Star Wars is one of the most popular sci-fi properties in history. You have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

>> No.54724064 [SPOILER] 

>It's not possible to impregnate through anal last time I checked.

It is if you remodel her shithole.

>> No.54724180

For Machinations of the Space Princess I love it's race creation mechanics. It's simple and easy to understand, and can easily even be randomized if I just want to just quickly make something up.

Stars Without Number and Other Dust are also really fucking good at generating campaign settings to play in using just tables. Even if you don't use them as games, as GM resources they're great.

>> No.54724241


Because most space operas operate on a rudimentary ''sci-fi'' formula, meaning they will have to have at least a veneer of plausable science and realism behind any galactic mumbo jumbo, whereas with medieval fantasy you can have all the hocus pocus without ever having to explain shit.

>> No.54724320

Good race creation sounds extremely useful, but I've never heard of the game before.
I'll look into it, thanks.

>> No.54724397

>meaning they will have to have at least a veneer of plausable science and realism behind any galactic mumbo jumbo

I see what you're getting at, but then we end up with threads complaining about boob-plate and about characters using scythes as a weapon.

>> No.54724831

Military games are pretty good in that regard.

- This thing is pretty useful and could save our butts. Let's take and use it.
*battle music, players win*
- Why no one uses it more?
*military bureaucrat shows up and drops a ton of paperwork on players*
- Please provide an after action report. Also the thing that you used was an experimental device that costs like 10 dreadnoughts and our science team will need at least a year to repair damage that you caused to it.

>> No.54724855

Crest of the Stars for nice clear space opera.

Dragonstar for space fantasy.

Eclipse Phase without psionics for something semi-hardish and weird.

>> No.54724872

And Planescape doesn't look like anything resembling a standard fantasy.

>> No.54724892


Nothing wrong with using a scythe if you're a peasant.

>> No.54724920

There's a difference between "magic" and "setting details that just don't make sense".

>> No.54724956

>Something I wish more people would do with sci-fi is try and focus on a single planet or solar system, rather than having FTL and an entire galaxy to deal with.
That's one of the reasons I like Mutant Chronicles so much. It's all contained in our solar system; it's a big place, inner system to the asteroid belt and it's planetoids, out to the outer system and the fringes. Plenty of space to work with and still small enough to feel "local". Though Mutant Chronicles is a dark techno/science-fantasy setting than your usual sci-fi sandbox(Traveler and the like).

>> No.54725001


Why is magic given such carte blanch to be and do whatever?

Do you explain why your historically accurate medievel setting is still the way it is when you have priest who can literally cure any sickness and restore limbs to full use? Or have Druids who can make sure the weather is always optimal for farming or wizards who can create fire from seemingly nothing?

>> No.54725794

Many people say star wars has too much magic to count as scifi.

>> No.54725814

Those people are wrong.

>> No.54726323


It has too much Disney to count as sci-fi

>> No.54728555

>Implying YOU wouldn't be the one thrown on the bed by that gorgeous space amazon.

>Space pirates
>Competent or strong enough to capture and rape Samus
Hahahah No.

>> No.54730491

>Do you explain why your historically accurate medievel setting is still the way it is when you have priest who can literally cure any sickness and restore limbs to full use? Or have Druids who can make sure the weather is always optimal for farming or wizards who can create fire from seemingly nothing?
The reason is: Casters are dicks

>> No.54732883

No it wasn't.

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