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[ERROR] No.54501077 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Now that the dust has settled, did Chaos forces actually win at Octarius, /tg/?

>> No.54501126


They had no other objective other than slaughtering as much as they can until the warpstorm relocated them to another battlefield. They did what they came for and they left to do the same in another battlefield.

>> No.54501165

What happened on Octarius?

>> No.54501212

Wasn't Octarius one of like 2 places were Chaos forces got stopped? Since Orks and Nids don't care for losses either, wouldn't it make more sence to call it a draw?

>> No.54501230

Nids and Orks fought each other for a fuckload of time and then Khornites joined in. /tg/ argued about the winner since then.

>> No.54501282

Octarius was one of the two places that didn't get overrun by the Blood Crusade. You rode out the Blood Crusade until the Warpstorm took the Blooed Crusades away to another part of the galaxy.

You can call it a draw if you wish but the daemons weren't there to win any wars or for comquest. They were there only for battle, blood, and skulls.

>> No.54501500

It's kinda hard for them not to when the shitty writing has backed them I to the corner of "w-well all we needed to do was kill stuff to win, npcfags btfo again!"

>> No.54501610

So was this all escapade just a trick to make chaosfags feel relevant again?

>> No.54501694

No need. Chaos already cracked the galaxy in half and swallowed the majority of Leviathan into the Warp.

This was just a neat cliffnote for the xenofags.

>> No.54501737

I'm out of the loop. Quit playing around 5th, but I used to play Nids. Can someone explain what all has happened, since GW doesn't seem able to write suspense anymore and needs to go ahead and tell people what happens to their respective armies?

Did my old army suffer another brilliantly humiliating loss?

I mean I heard that fucking Guilliman is awake now. I don't understand what they're doing. Why not just wake the Emperor and say humanity won 40k?

>> No.54501835

Remember Kryptoman luring Nids into an Ork kingdom of Oktavius? They are still fighting there 112 years later. Remember how menacing Leviathan was and how Blood Angels were on the ropes? Random warp storm wiped it out and Hivefleet Hydra is eating the rest. Picrelated pretty much sums it up.

>> No.54501915

In celebration for a new era of slaughter and WAAAAAR, Khorne begins something called the Blood Crusade/Red Tide. It's 8 massive daemon armies (and whatever mortals that joined up along the way) that spread across the galaxy using the Warpstorms as a method of travel each going to a different direction. The Crusade having to objective but to slaughter and kill wherever the warpstorms took them. Staying there until the warpstorms moves on taking them with them. The Blood Crusade armies annihilated tomb worlds, Imperial worlds, and entire hive fleets. For 1000 battles, the Blood Crusade never met its match except for 2 instances. Octarius being one of them.

The combined might of the Orks and the Tyranids fought the Blood Crusade to a stand until the daemons were drawn back to the Warpstorms to be relocated to another battlefield.

The Blood Crusade was ultimately disbanded by Khorne when the Rift War was about to start up. Khorne directed his forces to the godly contest being held there.

That's all.

>> No.54501930

Remember when anons were joking GW that anytime chaos wasn't on screen, everyone should be asking, "Where's Chaos?"
Well GW has taken them seriously.

>> No.54501931

>Great Rift
>Random warp storm

>> No.54501952

>that just happened to randomly hit fleet Leviathan, thus pissing all the years spent to build it up as a threat

>> No.54502018

112 years? The setting advanced by 112 years?

Why? I mean WHY. The battles of the setting take place across the entire Milky Way galaxy. There should be no end to the conflict already at hand and that's the point.

Did we do a time skip exclusively so the Ultramarines could measure their dick against new conquests or something?

>> No.54502044

I don't think there's much point in being bothered by a Nid loss. One of the reasons I quit 40k was because the 5th ed Nid book contained mostly losses in the fluff. It didn't sound like GW wanted the bugs to win, and people playing them were supposed to understand they're nameless, faceless bad guys to be wiped out by cool special characters.

>> No.54502064

It was really random. It's hinted that Ka'pandaman caused the Warpstorm to eat the Tyranid fleet.

>> No.54502152

The fact that the Indomitus Crusade lasted 112 years according to Guilliman doesn't mean anything. GW said on facebook time is no longer linear in M41. No sense in keeping track of stuff like that because GW sure as shit doesn't plan to. All dates do is create more room for fluff contradicts noticed by fans who know more about the fluff than GW does by virtue of paying attention to what's actually been written.

>> No.54502344

So explain this Guilliman thing, then. It's a stone's throw from waking up the Emperor himself, because one of the dystopian aspects of the Imperium is the massive church that's sprung up from Lorgar's discredited teachings.

We're looking at the spiritual liege of spiritual lieges, who wrote the book that all Space Marines abide by, and he finds Lorgar's ideology has dominated his father's entire empire even after the Emperor openly punished Lorgor for saying those things. I mean it's like if Ben Franklin crawled out of the grave and was there to tell modern politicians what they intended when they wrote the constitution, only imagine that the entire US military is still absolutely loyal to Ben Franklin and they'd turn on the US if he asked them to.

Guilliman also knows about the fate of the Emperor, and about a ton of things that nobody should know about. Guilliman waking up is one of those things that should be such a massive game-changer.

But I'm going to infer by pattern recognition that Guilliman isn't really doing anything meaningful now that he's awake, other than being another amazing super-soldier above super-soldiers who can arm wrestle with Eldar gods.

>> No.54502529

He's decided that the Ecclisiarchy is too powerful to move against openly while there are enemies on all sides.
>Worship the Emperor if you must, but don't worship me.
And by the end of Dark Imperium, is definitely leaning towards worship himself. Currently he's trying to reform Greater Ultramar and write a new book, the "Codex imperialis" on good governance. He also apparently forcibly removed almost half the High Lords and hand picked their successors.

Also, Emperor worship was a thing during the Great Crusade, and according to some sources, was open across hundreds of worlds by the time they confirmed the Golden Throne was working. And the Ecclisiarchy was founded by a veteran of the Horus Heresy on Terra and was the state religion in about a thousand years. So religion shouldn't be too terribly surprising for Guilliman. Though maybe he's surprised by the fact that it's all organized under roof now.

>> No.54502710

Does Guilliman have stats in the SM codex?

>> No.54502745


>> No.54503076

>T6, W9, 2+/3++ invul
Sounds fucking awful to play against. But then again this is coming from the perspective of 5th edition, where I had to pay 160 points to get T6, W4, 3+.

But anyway, bingo. There it is. They already wrote fluff describing every Ultramarine in the game as the super bestest super secret strongest, so all they had left was to one-up themselves.

Waking the Emperor is next. You'll call me stupid now, but they'll want to sell you the next super special badass and the Emperor is the only super butt club human left who's still, in theory, alive at some capacity.

>> No.54503120

>Waking the Emperor is next.
Nah, not before Sanguinus comes back. Lady Atia, arguably the most reliable rumormonger around, says that anyone who thinks Sanguinus isn't coming back, hasn't seen how the Horus Heresy series is going to end.

>> No.54503145

>Lady Atia

>> No.54503163

Why? Sanguinus being killed at the end of the Horus Heresy is a really big deal and a major part of the Blood Angels fluff. What indicates he's coming back?

>> No.54503171

Like I said, she's a very reliable rumormonger, to my knowledge, she hasn't led the community false yet regarding what's to come.

>> No.54503183

>What indicates he's coming back?
She didn't say. Just that, once the Horus Heresy black library series ends, it'll be apparent he's going to return.
Good money says it has to do with the Sanguinor.

>> No.54503186

>she hasn't led the community false yet regarding what's to come.
Good thing we have all those SoB models in plastic then.

>> No.54503199

I've never seen her say we were getting Sisters, Link?

>> No.54503237

Go look at her fucking blog retard. You know who she is,

>> No.54503326

I am, and abusing ctrl+f. Looking in the wrong places on her blog may make me a retard, but at least I'm not so retarded I shifted of the burden of proof AND put an Ad Hominem fallacy into a single post.

>> No.54503351

>Waking the Emperor is next

Forge World is already making a Big E model for 30k. You can guarantee they will be inundated with requests for "8e Emperor Rules."

>> No.54503496

theyll never mak 30K Emperor

who wants a 10,000 point God Model?

>> No.54503545


He's already listed as an HQ / LoW choice in the Talons of the Emperor list in HH7.

>> No.54503566

That's the problem with waking up or reviving all your mythical lore figures and then statting them out to try to match the myth. You do it with one of them, and it's only a matter of time before you have to do it with all of them. Guilliman waking up was supposed to be one of those "this COULD happen and it would be SO IMPORTANT" type things. Same with the Ynnead or with the Emperor dying and transending to godhood in the warp after his death.

Problem is, if the Eldar are activating the Ynnead and the Imperial heroes are all coming back, then humanity has won the war, because those were the mythical victory targets for those factions.

The victory condition for Chaos is inevitability, for Tyranids it was the rest of the fleets show up - but the Nids are obvious push-overs by now. The Necrons have changed so I don't know what they care about. Tau are too small.

>> No.54503677


When Emps is released, I can't wait to see the math that will tell us EXACTLY how many grots it will take to tarpit him.

>> No.54503750

Isn't Heresy-era Horus statted out? You could probably assume the Emperor would be kinda stronger than that, plus enough psychic powers to make the Eldar feel inadequate.

>> No.54503780


Basic Horus is, not Super Saiyan Horus post-Molech. That is the version that will fight Big E in the last book.

>> No.54506474

>Chaos already cracked the galaxy in half
>and swallowed the majority of Leviathan into the Warp.
what the fuck
when, where and how.

>> No.54506582

Why are you tripfagging here you sad cunt

>> No.54506615

I already know his 40k stats. He's just a really blinged out fortification now. An absurdly high Wound Count and a 2+ rerollable save with automatic pass of all Ld and Morale rolls. And once per phase you can regenerate all spent CP on a 3+.

>> No.54506719

That's not a win in any sense of the word. They won every other battle save one. They came to Octarius with 90% of their special characters, got fought to a standstill, and had to leave. That's a draw.
If you want to pull the "it's a win because they got blood and skulls" then the Orks also won because they got a good scrap out of it and the tyranids won because they consumed the biomass of any fallen chaos mortals.

>> No.54507388

Orks and Tyranids. The only two races that can fight a war that both sides win. That is fucked up enough to make a BL novel series out of.

>> No.54507895

No, Chaos lost because it didn't actually accomplish anything nor defeat either of the forces it was sent up against. Khorne is apathetic towards all things, but the Chaos forces were suitably humble and defeated.

>> No.54508834

>b-but they weren't trying to win
>b-but they had to leave because the warpstorms

>> No.54509061

Good news for you then.

Only Imperium gets mythical figures who can one-shot titans

Ycarne is kinda weak and not half as powerful as Roman Guerillaman.

Only thing Ynnead has done is make it so that Eldar can spirit stone each other. But again, they still go to slaanesh when they die.

Eldar lost out super hard in the mythical figures area. Their Phoenix lords were powerful but then GW turned primarchs from above space marines to literal titanfucking demigods and put them in the rules. You would assume the new Eldar god would at least be on par with any random primarch but nope.

>> No.54509211

The dust never settles, anon

>> No.54509452

In the span of a single paragraph.
Baal is saved from the Tyranids by a tsundere Bloodthirster.

>> No.54510457

>this WAAC list couldn't even kill Ghaz or the swarmlord
Even if that wasn't the reason they were there, it's pretty sad that this much star power couldn't do any more than stalemate a couple of NPC factions

>> No.54511787

>couldn't kill Jobberlord, Lord of Jobbing, who was created specifically to be a named character that could job to named characters to show how COOL and BADASS the other named characters are

>> No.54512071

Nope, the Warpstorm threw them randomly at that planet and they had no objective but to slaughter and kill in the time limit. They weren't there to defeat the Orks or Tyranids. They killed tons of Orks and Tyranids before leaving pleasing the Blood God which was their objective. Thy won and Khorne got his due.

>> No.54512137

They weren't there to specially kill anyone. They came and just saw a forest of mushrooms and bees and then went to harvesting as much as they can before the Warpstorm took them. We know that Warpstorms last for a short while. It's not enough time to harvest all the Orks and Nids and reach their bosses.

>> No.54512193

If they are bringing back the Emperor and giving him a model, then they better give Drach'nyen a model and rules so I can replay the Webway Battle and have Drach'nyen munch on the Emperor.

>> No.54512231

But was apparently enough time to wipe out entire hive worlds, forgeworlds, tomb worlds, hive fleets and win all but one other battle they were involved in. Most of the warpstorms lasted a few hours, but not all of them. And we know the blood crusade was split up into various groups heading out in different directions, picking up and dropping off new combatants all the time, so not every blood crusade battle had this many special characters show up at once.

Chaosfags trying to spin this into anything other than the forces of Khorne meeting their match are cancer

>> No.54512319

>Chaosfags trying to spin this into anything other than the forces of Khorne meeting their match are cancer

Nope, anti-Chaosfags trying to spin this as loss for the Blood Crusade are the cancer here. The Crusade had a clear objective and a set time limit. The 8th ED rulebook says that the daemons weren't concerned with anything other than creating as much slaughter and carnage as possible on as many places as possible. They achieved just that. No matter how you belly ache and pull win conditions out of your butt, it doesn't change the fact that the forces of Khorne got what they came for and left for another battle. And for the record, they would have left even if they were winning the battle.

>But was apparently enough time to wipe out entire hive worlds,

Could have taken a few hours. The Tau conquered an entire hiveworld one day. Are you saying that the Khornates cannot do better?

>> No.54512340

see >>54511787

>> No.54512342


not winning was their wincondition all along

>> No.54512739

>1 shot a titan
Think that honor belongs to Wazdakka... who was discontinued for some dumb reason. But whatever make a bunch of redundant human characters

>> No.54512763

They weren't there to kill him. So whatever.

>> No.54512889

One of the problems with the Nids, or benefits depending on how you look at it, is that the true Hive Fleet is so immeasurably huge that Behemoth, Kraken, and Leviathan are all merely tendrils of what's coming.

It allows them to lose regularly and often because "it's just a tendril and an ultimately futile attempt at staving off what's really out there", but at the same time means that they can never really win (because it makes all the other factions look bad) and are prime targets for being jobbed to show how BIG and THREATENING something is with accompanying "nah not really" for Nids. Chaos being an example, sure they split up huge chunks of the galaxy with the rift and such, except "just one galaxy big fucking deal, the REAL hive fleet chowed down on eight of those things already".

Personally I wouldn't mind if they'd been able to introduce a new, bigger tendril with the Indomitus Crusade time jump. Behemoth was broken by Ultramar. Kraken was broken by Iyanden. Leviathan was broken (allegedly) by Chaos/Orks. Seems like it's time for the next tendril hive fleet to be revealed at this point, but perhaps it'll happen when they get their 8E codex.

>> No.54512915

>and he finds Lorgar's ideology has dominated his father's entire empire even after the Emperor openly punished Lorgor for saying those things
Reportedly, when he woke up he started talking about the Imperial Truth.

The reactions he received were... unfavourable. He keeps his mouth shut about it now and recognises that it was a bad idea to talk openly about that sort of thing. Now he just grumbles and mutters and scowls internally every time he runs across a religious/spiritual thing, such as how he thinks "thank fuck I stopped the singing praises, that shit was fucking annoying" while the tech-priests are armouring him up in the DI novel. He's also arguing with himself about whether the Emperor is really a god or not.

>> No.54512924

So they just showed up and brawled for a few days?

That's anti-climactic.

>> No.54512993

Read Dark Imperium as a long Guilliman greentext about everything being terrible.

>stop talking about my guidebook like its a bible shit
>goddamnit Lorgar ruined everything
>should have fucked up that whatsitplace even harder
>Marneus Calgar more like Barney Failgar
>gonna rebuild ultramar, fuck these humans ruining it
>I'm not a god goddamnit no not even then
>stop singing
>custodes in my day were better
>why doesn't daddy love me
>where are my brothers
>I miss the good old days
>Great Crusade was baller
>bet my homeboys from then were better than these chadmarines Cawl made
>probably gets off on his nerdy ass making alphas
>is that a fucking AI
>fucking hell
>ecclesiarchy getting in my way
>stupid priests
>stupid inquisitors
>what do you fucking mean you can't even tell me the year
>can you not fucking count
>my feet hurt
>I wish I was crusading with my bros again

>> No.54513058

arent the nids and orks basically immune to chaos? how does chaos beat 2 armies that are immune to it

>> No.54513225

It literally says chaos was fought to a standstill, they then just left. Orks and nids are too much of a meat grinder, they realised they weren't making any progress in octarius and left

>> No.54513239

W9 really isn't much of an issue, as far as wounds go he isn't really much better than a carnifex, 2 lascannons could in theory take him out

His armour and revive though are where he gets silly

>> No.54513251


These 4 crazy powerful fucks still couldn't make headway into NidOrk world

>> No.54513271

I like that the new lore is making Chaos even more Edgelord Sued than in the past.

>> No.54513274

Chaos tears are delicious. Cant you guys take a loss? Chaos ripped the galaxy in half and has raped almost EVERY race/ sector. They couldn't do anything to make the 2 Horde races really give a fuck in that fight. Just let the Xenos have this win

>> No.54513280

But when you grind meat down you get blood and skulls. The Blood Crusade got what they can for. Mountains of Ork and Tyranid skulls were reaped before the Warpstorm moved on.

>> No.54513299

And the Orks and Tyranids literally didn't budge, chaos couldn't push into either army to noticeably bother the bugs or shrooms. Where as the rest of the places they fought they steamrolled. Seems like Orks and Nids won the defensive battle

>> No.54513323

It wasn't a loss because the Chaos horde objective was only to fight as long as the Warpstorm stayed in the system. Howe many times do I have to repeat this? Your bellyaching can't change the fluff.

Khorne lost in Terra when the objective was to reach and kill the Emperor. In the Blood Crusade it was just a galactic harvesting force. No objective other than fighting and reaping for the sake of fighting and reaping.
> they realised they weren't making any progress in octarius and left

Winning, drawing, or losing. It didn't matter, the daemons were going to leave the moment the Warpstorm moved on. The Orks and Tyranids didn't drive off the daemons. Stop lying, dude.

>> No.54513359

You can call that a draw if you want but the daemons didn't want the planet or else they would have stayed. Khornate daemons NEVER retreat or flee from battle.

>, chaos couldn't push into either army to noticeably bother the bugs or shrooms.

Other than a single linem you don't know much about what happened. The combined might of nids and Orks fought a spear of the Blood Crusade to a standstill. That's all what's written. Don't headcanon.

>> No.54513371

Remember when Chaos had goals beyond "hehehe you cant stop us and we kill u for fun ;)"

>> No.54513423

It's both. It's always been both. The Chaos rulebooks says that Daemonic incursions can be directed towards a specific target/objective (Terra invasion, Webway War), or have no purpose beyond immediate slaughter and corruption, Sticking around as long the Warprift and Warpstorm remain active.

>> No.54513437

I just miss the days of Chaos when "blood for the blood god" wasn't a 24/7 meme and Chaos had genuine goals, plans, and weaknesses, rather than whatever it is now.

>> No.54513445

So no one won? This was just the worst fight chaos managed to do, but didn't lose it because "Chaos is so random, do what we want!"

Gj chaos


>> No.54513475

Go to bed, Carnac.

>> No.54513483

The guy always seemed like a Jesus character.

>> No.54513502

What if a Beast level Ork appears out of it.

>> No.54513503

>Gets in a time machine
>Got to the past
>2nd ED "Realm of Chaos" Khorne "God of mindless and absolute violence"
>Khornates have no friends

>Go to the future
>AoS "Blades of Khorne"
>Though Khorne is a blunt and direct god, he is master of all forms of warfare. A master strategist and tacticians. There is no tactic, faint, or manoeuvre that Khorne doesn't know about
>Firefist is a honest and good friend to Khayon. The Greater Daemon Ragged Knight called Firefist his brother and puked up a skull gift for Firefist

New fluff > old fluff

>> No.54513523

I thought daemons couldn't see nids though, since they dont have souls.
They dont even have blood, they have ichor!

>> No.54513569

>Tyranids have no souls

No, the Hivemind is their Oversoul and it can be eaten.

>yfw Yriel's spear entity devoured the mind of a Hive Tyrant and then latched itself on the Hivemind and started eating it. Causing the Hivemind harm and wounding it.

The daemons can fight Necrons just fine.

>> No.54513574

that wasn't the majority of leviathan you dunce, that was just a splinter fleet.

>> No.54513586

No, It says it's the END OF LEVIATHAN.

>> No.54513606

Orks got a good fight out of it, so objectively, they're the winners. Chaos is always a bridesmaid and never a bride as per the usual, so they came second and nids objectively lost because all the biomass they got out of it was wasted in the end.

>> No.54513631

>That pic
On a side note, Armor is a great little science fiction book

>> No.54513656


>Hive Fleet Leviathan was the greatest Tyranid threat that the Imperium of Man had ever encountered, a gathering of bio-ships so vast that even the attempts of the noble Blood Angels and all their successor Chapters could not halt its advance. Having consumed the biomass of Human, Ork and Aeldari alike during its relentless advance across the galaxy, the largest tendril of Hive Fleet Leviathan was at the very height of its power, able to form new strategies and tactical counters at an exponential rate. Upon the Blood Angels’ home world of Baal, Commander Dante devised a series of formidable defensive fortifications and awaited Leviathan’s arrival. When the hive fleet’s shadow finally fell upon Baal and her twin moons, bloody battle was joined.

Since people can't read.

Notice the WAS word. Before coming to Baal and being defeated, Leviathan WAS the greatest Tyranid threat in the galaxy. Notice something else. The LARGEST Leviathan tendril went to Baal. Majority of the Fleet.

>Leviathan’s defeat came at great cost, and even then the hive fleet still has many smaller tendrils coiling through the galaxy. Worse, this defeat has merely slowed the threat posed by the Tyranids, not defeated it. With every passing year reports of new incursions arrive, as new hive fleets thrust their tendrils out of the void. Hive Fleet Hydra skirts the galactic rim, biding its time as it gathers up the scattered splinter fleets of previous invasions. Scylla and Charybdis carve parallel paths through Segmentums Pacificus and Solar, far too close to the Imperium’s heartlands, while Hive Fleet Jormungandr cuts its way down from the northern edge of the galaxy. Yet the fear is that these are merely the vanguard of a far greater entity, the true form of the Hive Mind simply softening up the galaxy before it makes its presence known.

Leviathan was defeated. All that remains are smaller Tyranids being eaten by Hydra.

>> No.54513662

>No, the Hivemind is their Oversoul and it can be eaten.

>> No.54513679

"Valedor" and "Wraithflight".

>> No.54513694

>orks been fighting a smaller nid tendril for hundred of years unable to win
>Imperium defeats the largest nid tendril in less than a year

How can the Orks recover from this?

>> No.54513741

>>Imperium defeats the largest nid tendril in less than a year

They didn't though, imperium was losing hard, even after necrons helped, a warp storm appeared, carried the entire fleet "away" and a bloodthirster wiped out a bunch of them. Imperium managed to beat one planet of nids that had no fleet support/ reinforcements

>> No.54513800


wtf is a Warp Beast?

>> No.54513809

Orks won by default, they can't actually lose the goal they had, because it was a big krump and there's only down from that for them. Chaos killing as many things as possible is sort of mitigated by the fact that the things involved were orks and nids, which basically mean Chaos was just kicking sand in a desert.

>> No.54513952


>Literally the first I've heard of chaos fighting in the Octavian war.


So let's put this into perspective, I was the faggot a few months back when 8th was being teased, and we had just seen the galaxy map with the giant warp rift for the first time, who asked what the Fuck was going on with Octarus. GW hadn't said Shit, and none of you faggots had any idea. They had advanced the plot, and as far as anyone was concerned it was Only Orks v Tyranids.


Are you serious right now. Khorne gets involved. Can we not have a single fucking story in this entire fucking universe where Chaos or the God Damn Imperium of Man DONT get involved?


You chaos faggots are worse than Imperial faggots. Death is too good for you


>> No.54513975

All I'm hearing. Why dont you go read the actual fluff before sperging out.

>> No.54514034


Oddly fitting then

>> No.54514045


>> No.54514057

Orks and tyranids aren't immune to getting a chain axe through the neck. The reason they didn't steamroll through them like they did everyone else is for the first time they actually went up against a force equal to them in fury and zeal. The Orks and tyranids have been fighting for years, at this point there are probably a shit ton of nobz and gaunts as big as space marines like in some of the art.

>> No.54514077


No, it wasn't. The Imperium and Eldar were involved in many operations to weaken and contain both sides in the conflict.

The Overfiend and "Deathwatch" (2016) centered around this.

>> No.54514114

>There is a war without end.
>Complains when the god of war and death turn up.

>> No.54514182

>a spear of the blood crusade
>containing pretty much every Khorne character, the world eaters legion, various warbands and a shitload of mortals
Khornes WAAC list got fought to a standstill. All those major characters couldn't break the deadlock before they had to leave via warpstorm. The Orks got a great fight out of it and the tyranids got experience against nearly the best of what Khorne has to offer and the biomass of any mortals and chaos marines killed. Everyone won something but no one won a military victory.

>> No.54514349

>imperium beat the largest tendril
Lol no that's not at all what happened. First the heavily fortified cryptus system, reinforced with Cadian elite and some of their best generals, got BTFO in 2 days. Granted, the plan to constantly reinforce the system with a crusade was a retarded plan from the start given the nature of the shadow in the warp. Anyways, next the blood angels and flesh tearers, along with the remaining SoB and the Necrons just barely managed to hold back the tyranids long enough to blow up a gas giant and wreck large portions of the fleet. The blood angels ended up suffer in near 50% casualties in a mission that lasted a few hours at most.

After that, the blood angels called back all of their successor chapters and managed to delay the tyranids by destroying many of their tendrils, but even then they steamrolled through the defenses and laid waste to Baal. The blood angels pushed back 19 waves of tyranids but by the 20th the tyranids had effectively won. Baal was already in the process of being consumed and Dante was leading a desperate last stand out of mere defiance. Then suddenly the warp storm appeared in the sky and likely fucked up with the time, because as soon as it disappeared the entire tyranid fleet was gone and guillimans indominus crusade was there. Even with Guilliman and the primaris marines it took many hard battles to finally beat a disorganized swarm. Also, k'bandha himself led forces to wipe out the tyranids on one of the moons.

The imperials didn't beat Leviathan, chaos did. The Octarius tendril seems to still be going strong, and the various ones in the galactic south are being absorbed into Hydra, which isn't a real loss for tyranids.

Too many people focus on the actual defeat of the tyranids and not the fact that before that they devastated several systems and caused irreparable damage and loss of manpower. Even when tyranids lose they cause way more damage to the enemy than they gained in turn.

>> No.54514373

>First the heavily fortified cryptus system, reinforced with Cadian elite and some of their best generals, got BTFO in 2 days.

I find it funny that the SOB despite massively smaller numbers and without a fortress did a hell of a lot better than the Cadians. They didn't try to take the nids on in a fair fight and cheated like a motherfucker with ambushes, fighting retreats and using the environment; doing a lot better in the end.

>> No.54514390

Given what we know so far about this battle and what forces are participating, who would have won if the daemons couldn't leave by warpstorm and actually had to finish the fight?

>> No.54514421

Unless Chaos keep getting more reinforcements, surely they get worn down eventually. Mortal worshipers aren't literally popping up out of the ground to replace casualties.

>> No.54514444

There are daemonkin warbands in the Blood Crusade. The harder these guys fight and die, the more daemons are summoned in reality. As long as blood and slaughter are to be had the daemons of Khorne will have a perpetual door way to reality.

>> No.54514476


>> No.54514494

Yes, and with the daemons and the mortals, they got fought to a standstill. Eventually, the mortals will all die, and then you have just the daemons. If fighting those daemons was enough to summon more daemons which was enough to win, then it never would have reached a standstill in the first place.

>> No.54514499

The Fall of Shadowbrink implies that Nid ichor doesn't really do it for khorne.

>> No.54514514

It's all about momentum. The war with the Orks and Tyranids was going back and forth as both factions gained momentum and lost it until they reached a standstill. Standstills never last.

>> No.54514522

Daemonkin implies that Tyranid ichor serves just fine.

>> No.54514556

Okay, where would Chaos even get this momentum from? Daemonic incursions are not inherently self-sustaining, or else we wouldn't have had a second and third war for Armageddon. Unless they're going to inexplicably find a bunker full of Imperial civilians to sacrifice, Chaos can only lose steam.

>> No.54514569

The Orks bloodlust and them being butchered.

>> No.54514583

They weren't sucked into the warp. They were killed by a bloodthirster offscreen.

>> No.54514592

Considering that Octarius is a toxic hellhole infested with tyranid and ork spores, many of those cultists and beastmen will start dying off. They also aren't being replaced, unlike the daemons. The chaos marines also aren't being replaced so eventually they'll start being worn down through attrition. The daemons can replace their numbers through sheer slaughter, but likely not as fast as the tyranids or in as great of numbers as the Orks. Chaos forces also don't have the benefit of being able to easily replace their vehicles and titans. Nids can grow a new biotitan in a couple of days and Orks are constantly cobbling together new gargants. Most chaos tanks, knights and titans are ancient relics from the Heresy that are irreplaceable, and once a daemon engine gets banished it takes a long ass time to come back.

If the chaos forces managed to take out Ghaz and/or the swarmlord, that changes everything. On the other hand, if any of those Khorne heroes are killed, that's a massive momentum shift. The death of one of the daemon lords would severely weaken their hold on the world, especially with the massive shadow in the warp and WAAAGH energy in the air

>> No.54514617

ork blood lust fuels the collective psyci of the orks, not khorne, only the blood letting fuels khorne. If anything, the whole things feels like its kinda forgotten, though it may be used as a xenos version of the "fall of cadia" in the furture (when Gdubs finally gets off their arse and care about the Xenos factions)

>> No.54514623

If this was enough, why did they get fought to a standstill in the first place? Surely they would just snowball out of control right away if that was how it worked.

>> No.54514640

Read this.

Also this


>The Prognosticators of the Grey Knights detect a coming Warp breach in the Endasch subsector. Upon Endasch itself, rival Ork warlords have spilt rivers of gore so copious they are at risk of creating a rift to the Blood God’s own realm. Unable to reach Endasch in time, the Grey Knights send an astropathic pulse to the Deathwatch. A dozen Kill Teams reach Endasch, slaying one of the Ork warlords and his retinue using only thunder hammers, power mauls and fists. Bludgeoning the enemy to death with crushing weapons proves no mean feat, and it costs the Kill Teams a full half of their number. Yet by limiting the blood spilt, the Deathwatch prevent the Warp breach from ever happening. The surviving Ork warlord leads a greenskin crusade out of the subsector. A week later, augur beacons trace the Ork crusade into the Eye of Terror, and the matter is considered resolved.

>> No.54514661

It won't be fast enough to counteract the billions of Orks and Tyranids already on the surface. especially when the Blood Crusade time limit could have been just a few hours.

>> No.54514692


>Whilst on a destabilisation raid to the war-torn Empire of Octaria, the Kill Teams of the Eye of Octos witness a Mekaniak invention that disrupts the synaptic control linking Tyranid organisms. Appearing much like a crown of electricity, it is used by the self-appointed King Mek Baddkrasha to break swarm after swarm. The Kill Teams wait for the two xenos armies to decimate each other before diving in, their Furor teams cutting through to Baddkrasha before escaping with his decapitated head – crown and all – for further study.

Did the Deathwatch do the right thing?

>> No.54514707



>> No.54514732

The dude I was responding was talking about the original form of the battle. He is asking why it was a standstill. My answer is not enough time.

>> No.54514741

I am the dude you're responding to, and no I wasn't.

>> No.54514754

"why did they get fought to a standstill in the first place? Surely they would just snowball out of control right away if that was how it worked"

>> No.54514784


>hurr durr i can't read a reply chain

>> No.54514804

There are rumors that Octarius is getting s campaign book, probably right when the ork and tyranid codices come out. My guess on how the story goes
>book one
>details everything we already knew, ending with Ghaz showing up and beating back the tyranids, with the next wave inbound

>book 2
>swarmlord arrives
>back and forth battle between Orks and Nids
>chaos forces show up
>first wave fought to a standstill
>second wave shows up, k'bandha and doombreed are competing to see who gets the skulls of Ghaz and Swarmlord. Karanak sent too just in case they fuck up.
>warp storm ends after a few weeks, chaos forces leave in frustration
>Ghaz realizes he needs to get back to Armageddon and leaves with the better part of his forces after the daemons
>hive fleet hydra shows up and devours the Octarius system along with the remaining Orks and leviathan.
>sets up the final war for Armageddon and the fourth tyranid war with hydra being the big bad fleet

>> No.54514996

How many chaos bezerkers and daemon heroes do you think died completely ignominiously, for instance being pulled down by Lotz of Grotz, being pulled down by rippers, being choked by poison spores, being tangled in tyranid flora and ripped apart, or being power klawed through the dick by an ork warboss?

>> No.54515703

Doesn't matter. His entire purpose is to die like a bitch to whoever he gets put up against and make anybody else look better. That is the entire reason he exists at all. He is less likely to survive a conflict than a guardsman.
By sending in an entire group of his best guys, Khorne should've killed the Swarmlord a few times over. It doesn't matter if they were there to kill him or not - by simply being there and fighting, the Swarmlord should be dead multiple times. It's almost every single last named Khornate character after all. Instead, not a single mention of the Swarmlord dying is made - or ANYTHING important, even - which leads me to question what the fuck they were even doing.
Were they just standing around picking their noses with their axes while a mass of boyz and hormagaunts crashed into them from either direction?

>> No.54515750

Who says that the Khornates found him mid-battle? Octaria has, IIRC, 3 or 4 massive continents. The daemons would be busy harvesting the closet skulls and blood around them.

>> No.54515987

Because he's the Swarmlord. If there are named characters for him to die to anywhere to be found, he will be there to die to them.

>> No.54516039

The Swarmlord duelled Farsight once and didn't die to him. Farsight held him off for a time and then retreated leaving the Tyranids to devour the tainted biomass and die out.

Does that count?

>> No.54516176

Guilliman himself started to question the Imperial Truth. He found that the emperor was something beyond humanity, even if he found him unworthy of being worship.

>> No.54517507

Why do Orks always skip leg day?
In fact, why does everyone in 40k skip leg day?

>> No.54519512

>le swarmy is the ultimate jobber may may
Alright let's examine all the times the swarmlord has been confirmed killed in the main rule books\campaigns:
>once by Calgar after BTFO him
>once at Valedir by getting shot by several D cannons he had no defense against.

And then in the BL novels
>dies to a squad of elite space marines, defeated earlier by them too

There's also the time commander farsue held him off, but didn't kill him.

So a whopping 3 times the swarmlord has confirmed been killed and one time it wasn't even a fight but an ambush, holy shit what a jobber. Celestine just came on the scene and has died in battle as many times, and how many times have characters like kairos, skarbrand, Magnus or the avatar of khaine jobbed horrifically? Skarbrand jobbed twice in the father storm alone

>> No.54519588

>>dies to a squad of elite space marines, defeated earlier by them too

The Swarmlord dies again in the novel when Cassius destroys the ship that the Swarmlord new body was being created.

>> No.54519624

>Were they just standing around picking their noses with their axes while a mass of boyz and hormagaunts crashed into them from either direction?
Chaosfags unironically would be okay with this because the Khorne guys totally weren't there for glory or anything, they just wanted blood and the puny skulls of boyz and gaunts was enough for them. Faggots couldn't handle taking any noteworthy ones, fucking pathetic.

>> No.54519670

>ship blows up while it was forming
>swarmlord wasn't participating, leading, or fighting in any way
I didn't count that one because it wasn't really a swarmlord defeat. Nobody cares how scary the bad guy is if you blow up his ship before he even does anything

>> No.54519685

How many times does he show up and NOT get killed?

>> No.54519721

Does the Avatar of Khaine ever win? I remember it was once trampled by a hoard of Carnefix

>> No.54519792

A bunch of battles no one cares about because he won them so easily, Ultramar, Octarius, against farsight, that's all I can think of. What's most amazing is how many important battles he didn't show up to, like Iyanden, the devastation of Baal, shadowbrink or gryphonne IV

>> No.54519794

-Avatar of Khaine kills a bunch of Dark Eldar in the Gothic war series. His rampage ends with him grabbing the Archon and then removing his warmask. The sight of the Avatar's true face causes the Archon's eyes and face to melt
-In the Mars series, An Avatar of Khaine rekts Black Templar and kills their chaplain
-In Valedor, an Avatar of Khaine disappears under a swarm of Tyranids. When the Eldar return to the same spot later, they find that Avatar standing on a literal moutain of Tyranid corpses and still adding more Tyranids to the mountainous pile. The Eldar morale is RESTORED by the sight
-An Avatar of Khaine in GS 2 fights Skarbrand. It ends in draw as both combatants expolde from the intensity of the battle.

>> No.54519821

So who's the strongest bloodthirster? Ka'Bandha or Angrath?

>> No.54519869

Ka'Pandaman is Third Host BT.
Angry-Roth is a First Host BT.

So Angry-Roth is stronger. However, recent lore shifted the title of strongest BT from Angry-Roth towards Skarbrand. Angry-Roth remains however the highest ranking BT in Khorne's armies.

>> No.54520277

How big are each of Khornes legions? In fact, just about how big are these unit sizes mentioned in >>54510457

>> No.54520397

You should know how many grotz is lotz of grotz.

>> No.54520613

>8^8 bloodthirsters of the 8th host
>nearly 20 million bloodthirsters total
Holy fuck why are there more bloodthirsters than space marines? This number right here gives me the impression the chaos really is spread out through various worlds and each one only gets a mere fraction of their forces. 20 million bloodthirsters would be enough to overrun the imperium, pretty easily

>> No.54521417

>at least one centuries old chaos space marine was killed by grotz
Khornes greatest champions couldn't do shit to Lotz of grotz, how embarrassing

>> No.54521711

Well, there's multiple solutions here.
1) Games Workshop has no idea what numbers mean, as usual.
2) Chaos is Chaos and doesn't do things that make sense
3) Too busy picking on that faggot Slaanesh to conquer reality
4) only the most elite of those bloodthirsters get to fight - once you hit Fourth Host you're stuck taking care of First through Third's wargear, Fifth is all about skull-masonry and skull-carpentry, Sixth has to transport the skulls for Fifth, Seventh deals with measuring the amount of blood spilled in engagements and in which direction it proceeds post-spilling, and Eighth has to babysit the Bloodletters.

>> No.54521739


20 million bloodthirsters
1 million imperial worlds

There are 32,380 hive worlds, a hive world has 50-200 billion people, roughly.
Then you have the populations of the other 970,000 worlds....

Quadrillions of humans, quadrillions spread across 1 million worlds.

If we are going world to world then there are 20 bloodthirsters per world, however there are several billion humans there to face them per world

20 million bloodthirsters is absolutely nothing against the numbers of mankind, there are more men than the bloodthirsters could possibly hope to kill , in warhammer fantasy it was perfectly possible for a man to kill a greater demon and in 40k surely it is more likely when you have about 700 million people to kill each one?

Besides, greater demons find it massively difficult to materialise, they need a lot of energy and support to do so, that many bloodthirsters could never cross over, besides if they somehow did then khorne's realm would be undefended

>> No.54521837

to put this in context

if a bloodthirster needed to kill 700 million people, and we assume it could kill 10 people per second, then it would take 133 years of non stop killing at this speed in order to kill them all.

Assuming each human has a gun and gets off a few shots at the bloodthirster , even if they only get three shots off that means the bloodthirster is getting hit 2.1 billion times over the course of his 133 year crusade.

>> No.54521999

I wonder what the most efficient bloodthirster-to-planet ratio is

>> No.54522058

So how does the Warpstorm leaving explain the Thousands upon thousands of Mortal Khorne worshippers losing ground and getting kicked out?

>> No.54522156

The problem is that if the Tyranids win they get to recoup their losses and then some, no matter how badly they lost. It's only if the environment becomes corrupted (via Chaos fuckery) or they are forced to retreat/annihilated entirely that the Nids come out without at least breaking even. That's the major reason the Nids are a crisis all by themselves.

>> No.54522175

>An Avatar of Khaine in GS 2 fights Skarbrand. It ends in draw as both combatants expolde from the intensity of the battle

That sounds metal as fuck. I like the idea of the Avatar of Khaine just exploding after it's done it's job. Like it has better places to be.

>> No.54522235

Khorne's top Blood-staticians are still trying to figure it out.

>> No.54522383

Does this mean that most of the Bloodthirsters are pussies?

>> No.54522418

I think you seemed to miss the point, overrun the imperium doesn't mean slaughter every last man in the empire. And I don't know where you got the idea that the bloodthirsters would be spread out evenly on each imperial world. In a scenario in which it were even possible for every one of them to manifest in the material world, they'd probably be spread out in several vast armies each numbering thousands of BTs. Any of those armies would quickly overwhelm most worlds, and even to fight them off would be a massive drain on resources. We're looking at more greater daemons than there were marines in the great crusade.

>> No.54522483

Nah, it means the vast majority of the BTs are hanging out in the warp, either training in Khornes realm or launching assaults into the realms of the other gods. The number of bloodthirsters who actually pay attention to the material team is probably in the tens of thousands, the ones paying attention to AoS likely in the thousands, and only a few hundred actually have a shit about fantasy

>> No.54522560

Text only says the daemons left via warpstorm. It's hilarious to think that all of a sudden the mortals found themselves completely surrounded by Orks and tyranids who were just being stalemated by legions of daemons. The space marines likely made it off after heavy losses, but those cultists, beastmen and traitor guard were probably fucked

>> No.54522607

Does this mean that Grimnir/Gotrek is singlehandedly fighting hundreds of them?

>> No.54522624

I did type out a clarification earlier that assuming averages among planets was not reliable but would serve to illustrate the numbers in question, however i got bored and deleted it.

I dont think that the forces of khorne alone can rival the forces of humanity, humanity can find 20 million heroes out of its quadrillions, humanity can field hordes and armies greater than khorne's.

>> No.54522696

No, it would mean that they're stuck doing menial tasks instead of getting to do what they want to do.
But they're Very Important Khornate Tasks. Those skulls don't haul themselves, you know! And you can't trust just anyone with them - it has to be done RIGHT.

>> No.54522717

>humanity can field hordes and armies greater than khorne's.

No, daemons are endless. Each BT owns a sizeable legion of his own. In fact, Uriel saw a vision of an alien galaxy being overwhelmed and conquered by Khorne.

>> No.54522732

Since General got derailed I'll ask here - how to start demons? Mainly interested in pure, not allying with CSM.

>> No.54522768

Nothing which has scope is endless, Khorne's realm and power has scope, although of great magnitude and incomprehensible to us, the hordes of khorne are described as beyond counting but so is humanity, therefore surely humanity is just as endless?

>> No.54522851

There is no scope in the realm of Chaos. It's defined by having no limits or boundaries. Also there are more BTs out there than those within the 8 Hosts of Khorne.

>> No.54523108


There is scope, just not as we can understand it, for the chaos gods draw power from emotions from the material universe, and the material universe has scope, therefore the immaterial must in some way correspond to that contained within the material, for why would it make sense if they could draw power from events or come into conflict with one another if there was no scope, range or form to their realms and power?

While it may not be as here or as a human mind can understand it , there have to be boundaries

>> No.54523228

Fuck THAT, just drop 20 of them onto each planet, have them split up and act as basically 20 smaller Endbringers. Remember, not many Imperial planets are THAT well defended, that's a major annoyance to a lot of them given it can just lol though most PDF forces until they muster like a massive tank gunline or something. Boom, all the smaller Imperial worlds are in a lot of trouble and you can start picking apart the supply lines to the big boys like Forges and Hives. I'm an Admech fan, not a Daemon one, but frankly Daemons are rather OP in fluff especially with all the recent boosts they've been getting.

There are fuck all Space Marines in the galaxy, don't compare shit to them unless you want to call Iain M Banks and get him to teach them how to scale properly. Seriously, they cut the defenders of an ENTIRE MAJOR FORGE WORLD down to only TEN THOUSAND TROOPS just so their pet Space Marines can save the day. Then the Forge World is crippled for a decade because one Magos died and one Forge was shot up with a few dozen bolters. This on a planet that holds about twenty billion people from previous numbers.


Hey, don't lump all us Imp players in with the Marines. Us Admech are nearly as screwed as the Xenos, we lose almost constantly in any battle we're in, 30k or 40k, and all our talents are ignored to turn us into idiots in the books because "lol superstition". It's almost as bad as the Nids fluff rape at this point. The closest to a God Character we have is Cawl, and he's nowhere NEAR as good as any of the Primarchs yet is still completely mandatory for a decent Admech list. For 100 extra points over him Guilliman gets about 600 points of value total.


I will gladly do said maths, as I did for all the Inferno characters. I just want to see how long it will take my 100 Levies and little coterie of no-arm toasterfucker literally who Myrmidons to kill him DEAD. Killing snowflake characters with meaningless cannon fodder is best game.

>> No.54523236

i thought Guamanian liked calgar

>> No.54523305


>> No.54523436

Except it's repeatedly said that laws of the material universe and time have no power or meaning in the Warp. It's a realm of infinite possibilities.

>> No.54523451

Ork science best science

>> No.54523546


As i said we cannot understand it, it is a real of infinite possibilities but so is the future, however the future is limited in scope and so are their realms, that we cannot understand or measure it does not mean that it is infinite in scope , at least in a way that the gods of chaos can encompass.

>> No.54524754

GW shits the bed when ever it comes to scale. There are ridiculous stories where Khorne bezerkers manage to wipe out an entire planet of tyranids, which makes no sense at all

>> No.54526643


>> No.54527844

>Grot Hordes

>> No.54528030

Nope. Chaosfags can claim all day long that 'B-but blood for Khorne!', when at the end of the day Gorl and Mork basically pushed him aside to wrestle with the Hivemind some more. Orks feed G&M more than Cornflakes, and they did a lot more krumpin' than the spikey onez.

>> No.54528062

It's time for foot sloggin boyz!
>Because everyday is leg day in the 41st millium.

>> No.54528934

>b-but blood for the blood god
I hate this shit. If that's what you call a win then the Orks also won because they got a great fight out of it, and the tyranids won because they got the biomass of those thousands upon thousands of cultists and beastmen who didn't get teleported away when the warpstorms left and couldn't escape in time.

>> No.54529176

What kind of genetic benefit would tyranids get from eating chaos space marines? Wound it be the same as regular marines or would the chaos taint affect them too? And what about eating beastmen, mutants and cultists?

>> No.54529627

>got the biomass of those thousands upon thousands of cultists and beastmen who didn't get teleported away when the warpstorms left and couldn't escape in time.

Tyranids do not eat tainted biomass.

>> No.54529668

Nope, the Orks and Nids rode out the Bloodstorm. If Khorne cared about the planet, then he would have ordered his daemons and armies to stay rather than proceed to the next battlefield via the Warpstorms. Truth is neither Khorne or the daemons cared enough about the planet to stop their galactic slaughtertrain for it.

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