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[ERROR] No.54036761 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

What if the tyranids started invading back during the great crusade era? Would the legions and primarchs have been able to fight them off? Could the Heresy have been avoided? How would the emperor have reacted to a new extragalactic threat?

>> No.54036978

>>54036761
>Would the legions and primarchs have been able to fight them off?
Probably.
>Could the Heresy have been avoided?
Possibly.
>How would the emperor have reacted to a new extragalactic threat?
Same as he reacts to any xenos: purge the fuckers.

>> No.54037149

>>54036978
I feel like the legions method of using marines in attrition could come back to bite them in the ass, tyranids getting access to all that genetic material would be pretty bad

>> No.54038702

Primarchs can kill warlord titans in 1v1 combat in the fluff, and the legions run up against just about everything without a hiccup. I doubt the Nids are going to accomplish much here.

Loken and a squad of Luna Wolves kill a gigantic chaos spawn while not knowing what chaos is, and are horrified at the losses of 3 space marines they take.

>> No.54039197

>>54037149
Only if an hivefleet succeed in killing SMs, absorbing them and then survive the rest of the battle to use their genetic material.

>> No.54040092

>>54036761
>2 missing legions

what do you think the bugs are running from

>> No.54040470

>>54038702
There have been various times where the legions took massive losses. We're talking tens of thousands of marines. In the Rangdan xenocide campaigns alone they lost 50,000 marines.

>> No.54040610

>>54036761
>all the primarchs in their prime
>legion strength space marines
>emps
>mechanius is actually making new shit
>will get raped by chaos if they start fucking with their plans
They'd get destroyed harder than 8th edition

>> No.54042363

>>54036761
why is Leviathan so different in terms of attack location and direction?

>> No.54042792

>>54040610
>all the primarchs
Not immune to getting killed by Nids. If they manage to eat a primarch. I imagine the consequences would be severe. >>54040092
>legion strength space marines
Space marine fighting in legion strength would be taking much heavier losses than in 40k, and that means more generic material to the Nids. Also, the more the space marines BTFO the tyranids, the faster they adapt to their strategies and weapons. Certain hive fleets will start taking on different characteristics based on the legions they face and consume
>mechanicus making new shit
Will help, but ultimately not enough. Tyranid adaptation is also way faster, even in the mechanicus prime they wouldn't be able to keep up
>chaos
Need not apply

>> No.54042852

>>54042792
The Tyranids cannot take on the Imperium as it is now without humiliating defeats.

The Swarmlord, the best Tyranid ever in every way possible, was defeated by Calgar in a 1 vs 1. Even Cassius defeated the Swarmlord TWICE within the same war. Dude, stop the Tyranid wank. They are an embarrassment.

When ordinary marines can outsmart and outfight the best of what the Tyranids can offer, then the Primarchs are untouchable by the Tyranids. A primarch would bitch slap the Swarmlord.

>> No.54042876

>>54042363

Some people believe that the 'nids are an Old One creation that lay dormant in just outside the galaxy. Supposed to be used as a weapon of last resort.

Theory goes is that it would be the Old One's reboot option should everything go to shit.
Everything sentient would get devoured and then they'd select out the genetic sequences of the species they wanted to reseed the galaxy with.

Would make sense that the hive fleets would be seeded spherically around the galaxy so that when activated, they come in from all angles and nothing escapes.

>> No.54043114

>>54036761
I think the Heresy would be pretty damn stymied. A lot of the resentment in the legions came from the idea that eventually the Crusade would be over and ungrateful politicians would take over the Imperium. With a potentially limitless enemy to fight, I could imagine that once the threat was properly realised ("Oh wait, these aren't just some random aliens, this is an invasion"), compliance and conquering would be put on hold.
I'd like to imagine the combined might and intellect of Emps and the Primachs would be able to at the very least stall the Hive Fleets in a major way.

>> No.54043168

>>54042792
You're severely underestimating the early Imperium; this was a time of discovery. Horrific creatures were wiped out across the galaxy at costs so great the Emperor forbade them ever be spoken of. For all you know, the nids of 30k were some of those things. For a species that supposedly adapts every generation, 10,000 years is a long, long time, so it's doubtful even if Guilliman had faced them that he'd recognize them in 40k. Be interesting to know if he recognized genestealers, tho.

Genestealers have been known, presumably unchanged, for thousands of years. They're seeded on hulks; spacefarers have probably known them individually (though not necessarily survived them) for longer. Admittedly the last Cults codex tried to have us believe the first cult was only encountered by the Imperium about a hundred years before Behemoth, but that's still distinct from purestrains.

Besides, all fleets so far encountered have a single overwhelming weakness; they need to move forward, need to continually feed, or they overstretch their lines of supply. Once that was realized by any single Primarch with sufficient men and ships under arms, they'd simply harry the Tyranids until they were starved, then exterminate the stragglers.

You're not dealing with Space Marine Chapter Masters - you're dealing with demi-god sociopaths, each of them answerable only to the Emperor, able to recruit and train superhuman warriors in months (with poor results) or years at most, commanding millions of ordinary soldiers, hundreds of vessels of their own, able to requisition more and call upon alliances with Forge Worlds that have no compunction over deploying anus-inverting hate-powered archaeotech; it's the Legions who would come out on top over any Hive Fleet. Hell, Behemoth's ability to hurt the Ultramarines was just because it headed straight into Ultramar; facing the far larger (and unbroken by the heresy) fleets of the Great Crusade, Behemoth would never have made planetfall.

>> No.54043218

>>54036978
>Same as he reacts to any xenos: purge the fuckers.
End this meme. The Emperor only advocated exterminating all xenos actively harmful to or competing with humanity. Harmless ones got ignored, friendly ones got incorporated into the Imperium.

>> No.54043236

>>54043218
No.

The Emperor had Vulkan exterminate Eldar exodites who rescued humans from Dark eldar slavers and then allowed them to coexist with them on their planet.

Source is Promethean Sun.

>> No.54044870

Nids ain't shit, but how about Necrons in 30k?

>> No.54045006

The hive mind would shit it self seeing the their food using volkite and plasma in Mass lol

>(10 Space Marines shooting volkite at 50 tormagaunts)
>27 gaunts turned to ash,the other 23 are burned stumps
>Hive mind:MUUUH BIOMASS!REEEEE
>glaive tanks fires it's carronade cannon
>Fucking swarms of nid turns to dust in mins
>Hive mind:omfg

>> No.54045082

>>54037149
But the Space Marines and Imperium in general have such overwhelming fire power in comparison to their modern day counterparts. Not only are the Astartes Legions massive but even the Adeptus Mechanicus and other factions in the Imperium. There could easily be many times more Imperator class titans and other powerful units facing the tyrannids in 30k.

>> No.54045099

>>54040470
as a counter-point, the way the rangdan xenocide is vaguely described makes them seem like a stronger and more subversive enemy.

The thing with nids is that nowadays they get countered by massive use of force where the guard bring the majority of forces, but the astartes are only the scalpel to launch decapitation strikes. I could imagine the legions decimating the Tyranids due to the tactics they employ and the more readily available technology they can employ. From the destroyer chapters of the legions, their super heavy vehicles and the vast number of war machines the legions brought to bear.

>> No.54045126

>>54040470
So? There was millions of space marines at the time of the Heresy. And fluff marines kill much worse monsters than Nids on a regular basis.

Cato Sicarius killed a C'tan shard that was literally destroying a tomb world solo with a grenade.

>> No.54045221

>>54042852
>ordinary marines
>some of the best warriors from the best, most handsome, most capable, most adaptive fighting force the galaxy has ever known
>ordinary marines

>> No.54045830

>>54043168
>Besides, all fleets so far encountered have a single overwhelming weakness; they need to move forward, need to continually feed, or they overstretch their lines of supply. Once that was realized by any single Primarch with sufficient men and ships under arms, they'd simply harry the Tyranids until they were starved, then exterminate the stragglers.

Can you imagine Alpha Legion vs. the Tyranids? Every time they make planetfall they find that the world they're on is booby trapped somehow.

>> No.54045881

>>54045126
>destroying a tomb world solo with a grenade.

A vortex grenade that created a Warp rift that dragged the C'tan shard into the Warp. The text says the C'tan shard was banished, not destroyed.

>> No.54045937

>>54042792
I like tyranids but come on man

>> No.54045945

>itt people completely forget about the Rangdans which the Imperium extermianted and were comparable to the Necrons in power

>> No.54046018

>>54045945
>were comparable to the Necrons in power
Citation on this? As far as I know we don't have any concrete info on the Rangdans other than that they were the Great Crusade's most difficult campaign.

>> No.54046042

>>54046018
They had mindshackle scarabs on steroids and annihilated an entire Legion of Space Marines. And titan legions. And entire fleets. Info on them is scattered about the Horus Heresy books for forge world. Ultimately it required the Emperor to step in to kill them.

>> No.54046360

>>54039197
Happens all the time in 40k

>> No.54046371

>>54042876
That's a random fan theory and in no way supported by in universe or older lore, that states they are simply unbelievably ancient

>> No.54046376

>>54044870
>Nids aint shit
>Necrons are actually afraid of nids
>Silent king says if nids keep growing soon even a united necron empire cant stop them

Ok

>> No.54046474

>>54044870
All of the Necrons?

>> No.54046485

>>54046376
Necrons are not afraid of the Tyranids. The Triarch Praetorian say that the Tyranids, unless provoked, will just ignore the Necrons.

And I wouldn't trust the Silent King in manners of warfare. Imotekh is the greatest military mind that the Necrons have, and he doesn't think much of the Tyranids.

>> No.54049168

>>54046485
>And I wouldn't trust the Silent King in manners of warfare. Imotekh is the greatest military mind that the Necrons have, and he doesn't think much of the Tyranids.

Silent king saw how many were coming and did an "oh shit" 180

>> No.54049202

>>54046485
The Silent King is the only one who has actually seen the full scale of the tyranid threat out in the void, and he's saying even a united Necrons race might not be able to stop it. The rest of the Necrons don't know shit and will continue to act like pompous dicks who can steamroll through any threat or waitnit out. Numerous tomb worlds have already been destroyed by the tyranids, they are more than capable of doing so.

>> No.54051258

>>54045006
stop, I can only get so erect.png

>> No.54051292

Behemoth, kraken, Leviathan and the smaller hive fleets are beaten at great cost but are ultimately not too much worse than the various other scary xenos species around at that time. Then the next fleets start showing up, bigger and bigger and at greater rates. 30k imperium could deal with the current tyranid threat, they would be hard pressed to stop it he main fleet

>> No.54051455

>>54045126
There were two millions at best even with the most optimistic numbers

>> No.54051463

>>54051292
>they would be hard pressed to stop it he main fleet
Just nevermind the fact that the "main fleet" theory is based on scattered bits of fluff, with no concrete evidence to back it up.

>> No.54051496

If chapters, chapters, a thousand man SM force can create troubles for the bugs, imagine what a whole legion could do.
Also, remember that end-up equipment like titans, baneblades, etc, were much more common and widespread.

>> No.54051559

>>54036761
they are coming back because they have daddy issues. the swarmlord beats up a naked Dorn while screeching out the word "brother" with tears streaming down its face. then chaos still wins

>> No.54051630

>>54042852
>A primarch would bitch slap the Swarmlord.
Considering the biggest Ork Warboss (the Beast) in the last 10k years straight-up KILLED Vulkan in a 1v1 fight after the big guy shoved ol' Goff Beastie into a 'Waaagh! generator', you don't even need to bring up Primarchs here.

The second the nids come into contact with Warlord Urlakk Urg's Ork Empire (y'know, the one the Ullanor Crusade was about), the Tyranids are fucked.

Hell, ol' Swarmy can't even kill Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka or even drive the warlord and his Orks off Octarius, and he's at that for a century now. Apparently he's burned through most of Leviathan's tendrils in the process of trying to devour ONE planet.

Nids would get DESTROYED if they entered the galaxy in 30k.

>> No.54051665

>>54043218
>ones that posed no conceivable threat to humanity at that time or at any time in the future, and could be exploited for food, slave labor, or some other resource were incorporated into the Imperium.

Fixed that for you.

>> No.54051696

>>54045830
Psychological warfare doesn't work on creatures with no sense of self or fear of death.

Booby-trapping a planet is more the speed of the Iron Warriors. They'd set it up like the Iron Cage.

>> No.54051727

>>54036761
The Ordo Reductor would have a collective nerdgasm. Their job is to solve Outside Context Problems like this, and they have a truly spectacular array of bullshit superweapons at their disposal, plus Genetors who do this kind of adaptation competition on a regular basis. They helped the Emperor break the Rangdan over the Imperium's collective knee and fought DAoT Silica Animus regularly, this is another Tuesday for them.

The one Reductor Magos we've met in fluff fought on Istvaan III for the duration, built a Vortex Bomb from his drop pod, hijacked two Land Raiders, a Fellblade, a gunship and then a fucking STARSHIP from Space Marines then rebuilt his SM bro into a cyborg psychic zombie. He wasn't even an Archmagos, these guys are creative.

>> No.54051953

>>54051727
>these guys are creative.
And yet they still haven't figured out a way to properly exterminate those greenskins. Y'know, the most widespread, frequent threat the Imperium had, has, and will ever face?

Aside: according to Index Xenos 2, one of the theories about how Ork numbers increase so fast is their that deities vomit their "numberless progeny across the galaxy with wild abandon".

In other words, some Magos Biologis inside the Imperium thinks Orks are green daemons who can exist realspace.
As an Ork player, I'm just going: "... wut."

>> No.54052120

>>54051953
Orks are stubborn bastards, you know that. There'll always be some overlooked infestation somewhere in the galaxy, they've had bigger problems to deal with since the Great Crusade wasn't done before everything went Octet-shaped. Also they're not given much love in the fluff even if they're perhaps the single scariest HH army in crunch. Top 3, anyway. They have Decima kicking ass, their section in the rulebook and then a couple other tidbits.

Also, why isn't Mork or Gork spawning a bunch of spores somewhere interesting not possible? Seems like the kinda thing they'd do if they saw something they wanted to get the ladz stuck in with. Still some Magos Biologis are a tad mental, you know the Admech. The Ordo Reductor tends to take the near-heretical ones who are actually sane, they're Admech Special Circumstances.

>> No.54052203

>>54036761
It would probably silence any Chaos whispers and actually convince the emperor to be more open with allying with other human/xeno factions.

Any initial invasions would be rebuffed, albeit with heavy losses. Granted those losses can be refilled very quickly in the current state of the Imperium, but the shattering defeat, combined with the Emperor being very much alive and well, would be enough for the entire Hive to change direction.

Remember, by 40k the Milky way is essentially feeling just the side of the entire swarm scraping against it as the Hive Mind travels through darkspace. With this kind of scenario, it might be enough to bring the entirety of the the Tyranids onto the Milky Way.

The Emperor may not spend as much time on his projects at home or maybe even bump up whatever secret plans he had in the future to now. Custodes, human webways, and who knows what else may get fielded now, half finished but still quite powerful tools to defend not just the Imperium, but the entire galaxy.

As large as the Legions are, their numbers would be stretched to defend every single world the Tyranids infest, possibly even losing some as they will initially underestimate the thread of the Hivemind. The Primarchs themselves would have their endurance tested from the never ending war it would bring. Death wouldn't come from a single crushing blow from an equal foe, but a million cuts made by a never ending tide of organisms.

Eldar, possibly orks, and dozens of other xenos may get pulled into this conflict as this will essentially be the biggest bug hunt anyone has ever seen.

>> No.54052606

>>54052120
>Also, why isn't Mork or Gork spawning a bunch of spores somewhere interesting not possible? Seems like the kinda thing they'd do if they saw something they wanted to get the ladz stuck in with.
Mostly because it feels like that'd imply that Gork and Mork are intentional creations of the Old Ones, and not just two VERY terrifying accidents that helped destabilize the once calm Warp during the War in Heaven.

Although having two massive Warp entities that could spawn endless Krork behind enemy lines wherever they were needed would certainly be advantageous to... the... Old Ones...

Oh zog me.

If the theory about Gork n' Mork being able to spew endless ladz into battle is actually true, then the Old Ones are even more short-sighted than I thought! Sure, it's implied that the Ork gods have been around since the beginning of time, but this means those 2 extremely violent, gigantic entities are probably a big part of why the Warp got so fucked up in the first place (You're welcome Khorne...?)

>> No.54052925

>>54043236
>>54051665
You know, I'm told that some people had abusive fathers, but were still able to go on to be competent writers without bringing it up in every single book.
Just saying.

>> No.54052942

>>54051463
It been present in all codex since 3rd at least and is mentioned again in the index, suggesting they are softening up the galaxy

>> No.54053120

>>54051463
The main fleet being way bigger has always been a part of the fluff. 6ed fluff sort of made it seem that Leviathan was the main fleet, but 8ed outright states that the current fleets are just the vanguard and the main fleet is on its way.

>> No.54055010

>>54053120
>made it seem that Leviathan was the main fleet
>made it seem
Only for fools and nidhaters.

It was always clear to anyone paying attention that Leviathan was just the largest fleet invading from a different angle than normal. It just fucked up by spreading itself too far and trying to nom the entire galaxy at once and then focusing on Baal and Octaria/Octarius (the latter apparently for ~112 years since the Octarius War didn't stop during the 8e timeskip).

>> No.54055295

>>54036761
Depends who's writing it. That's it.
You can't make a further argument about who would win because it all comes down to that.
If you take a realistic perspective and say that tyranids have probably eaten most of the other galaxys now then eventually tyranids would win.
If you take an imperium wank perspective then the emperor would shoot a pyrovore with some mind bullets obliterating the segmentum obscuris and killing all tyranids ever with warp shittery

>> No.54055323

>>54036761
what do you mean by this? Which tyranid fleet invades 30k? Behemoth? Kraken? All of the big three? The tyranid outer god itself?

>> No.54055379

>>54052606
Well Khorne is clearly an ork based on how his art depicts him and his being like an Ork in every way, so who knows that is really going on with the warp.

>> No.54058032

>>54055323
The tyranid invasion happens in 30k instead of 40k, sonall of them, invading at roughly the same rate they are now

>> No.54058181

>>54055295
I was thinking it'd be more like Starship Troopers(the movie), where the state of the war is ongoing but actual progress is nebulous.

>> No.54059816

>>54055379
>Well Khorne is clearly an ork based
Considering Khorne's the only Chaos God Gork and Mork don't mind skimming a little bit of Ork 'war emotions' every now and then, it wouldn't be too surprising if the majority of original warp energies that formed Khorne came from the Krorks.

>> No.54059832

>>54059816
Gork and Mork do not have a choice in the matter.

>> No.54060009

>>54059832
>dis humies tryna implie gork n mork wudda naht krump dis korn git ifn he says sumfin

>> No.54060058

>>54055379
When Orks fight and kill, what part of that energy goes to Khorne and what goes to gork&mork? When slaaneshi worshippers spill blood, what part fuels slaanesh and what part feeds Khorne? If tyranids fight each other does Khorne get fuel from the resulting war? How can Khorne ever lose if fighting him just makes him stronger?

Chaos is so stupid, I really wish they put limits on it instead of "EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE FEEDS THE 4 RUINOUS POWERS AND THERES NOTHING TOU CAN DO ABOUT IT!"

>> No.54060094

>>54059832
>implying the Ork gods aren't 100% aware about what's going on and that all Ork-related phenomenon doesn't pass through them first before the Chaos Gods know about it

>> No.54060177

>>54052606
>Mostly because it feels like that'd imply that Gork and Mork are intentional creations of the Old Ones,

No it doesn't.

Orks make Gork and Mork from their collective psychic mumbo jumbo, then Gork and Mork, who now exist, decide it would be cool to randomly throw Ork Spores in random places around the galaxy.

>> No.54060295

>>54060009
>reminder that Khornes finest thought they could steamroll through Octarius and ended up getting fought to a standstill before they Ran away

>> No.54060583

>>54060295
They don't run away. The Warpstorm took them somewhere else. Winning or losing, the daemons were bond to whenever the storm moved on.

And we have been through this dance many times.

>> No.54060853

>>54060583
>the daemons were bond to whenever the storm moved on.
Which left the mortals who'd been tagging along (aside from ol' Kharn) at an extreme disadvantage.
>And we have been through this dance many times.
And if you are who I think you are, you've been wrong every time.

>> No.54060935

>>54046360
But not in 30k.

>> No.54061169

>>54044870
Wasn't there a Tomb World that actually woke up during the Great Crusade by accident? I recall a mention of Trazyn cackling of how thoroughly they got curb-stomped.

>> No.54061245

>>54060853
>And if you are who I think you are, you've been wrong every time.

Nope, you consistently ignore that the daemons are a set timer that will compel them to leave regardless of how the battle was going. This makes you automatically wrong for saying that they ran. Khornate daemons NEVER RUN.

>Which left the mortals who'd been tagging along (aside from ol' Kharn) at an extreme disadvantage.

Mortals are noted to be expendable in the eyes of Khorne. Their blood feeds him as good as any. Kharn and his Slaughterhost are still alive and are still on the warpath.

>> No.54061274

>>54061169
You are wrong. The only fluff we have says that some tomb worlds awakened at the time and watched the Great Crusade sail through the galaxy. That's it.

>> No.54061362

>>54058032
Though, they didn't all come at once, did they?

Like, there was a 250-year gap between Behemoth and Kraken, that's longer than the Great Crusade in its entirety.

How would just Behemoth turning up, say from the Galactic South or something, instead of the East, change things?

>> No.54061381

>muh nids unstoppabil bugs
Come on guys. I thought this meme died in 6th ed when GW realized one faction being the ultimate threat was retarded. The whole concept loses its bite if it isn't resolved in an edition or two of writing.

>> No.54061405

>>54060295
>88 Legions

>> No.54061482

>>54061381
>when GW realized one faction being the ultimate threat was retarded.
Clearly they haven't realized that, because they keeping propping up Chaos as some sort 'uber big bad' for the last couple editions...

>>54061245
1. anon didn't say a damn thing about the daemons. He said "Khorne's finest". That means daemons AND mortals.
2. I never said Kharn was dead. I merely said he and the rest of the Khornate mortals were at extreme disadvantage without their daemon back-up, and had to retreat off the planet.
You know what we call a retreat?
RUNNING AWAY.

>> No.54061522

>>54061482
>Clearly they haven't realized that, because they keeping propping up Chaos as some sort 'uber big bad' for the last couple editions...
They're the main baddies like the IoM is the main goodies because they have the most armies and models.

And I don't recall any fluff saying that Chaos will destroy every other faction as a matter of time.

>> No.54061547

>>54036761
One question nobody's asked is how would the specific timeframe of the Great Crusade change the result of a Tyranid invasion?

I'm not suggesting it happen too early, when it's just the Solar System and a few other colonies, but seeing how things might change depending on when it happens could be interesting.

>> No.54061562

>>54046018
Bligh said they came closer to killing the Imperium dead than anything before or since.

>> No.54061584

>>54051463

One of the words most commonly used to describe the current fleets is "tendrils", groping forward in the void.

Tendrils are attached to a body.

>> No.54061612

>>54061482
>1. anon didn't say a damn thing about the daemons. He said "Khorne's finest". That means daemons AND mortals.

The Khornates daemons are Khorne's finest. Among the mortals only Kharn can be considered worthy while the others quality is unknown. In fact, the text says that the Crusade is mainly daemons with the mortals are the riff raff that are attracted by the Crusade so their quality can range wildly. So you are an asshole.

>2. I never said Kharn was dead. I merely said he and the rest of the Khornate mortals were at extreme disadvantage without their daemon back-up, and had to retreat off the planet.

The Mortals dudes are not the Crusade. The Crusades are the daemons. The mortals are the tag-alongs

>> No.54061767

>>54061612
>The Mortals dudes are not the Crusade. The Crusades are the daemons. The mortals are the tag-alongs
>Kharn and the World Eaters are tag-alongs

Holy crap, you are still trying hard to twist this loss by Khorne's boys into a 'draw' with this crap?
Khorne's Blood Crusade lost at Octarius. It lost 2 times out of hundreds (if not thousands) of successful carnagefest.
Just accept it and move on.

>> No.54061901

>>54061612
>kharn can be considered worthy while the others quality is unknown
Those are the same overwanked warbands from the daemonkin codex. The ones that do stupid shit like slaughtering an entire planet of tyranids despite that being impossible no matter what way you look at it, or beating Tau with bikes and chain axes.

Just accept that Khornes finest had to leave a battle they weren't even winning, which is called a retreat, which is also called running away

>> No.54061937

>>54061901
And we have no proof that they came to the party. It says arandom collection of warbands came and left as the Blood Crusade went on. They weren't the main body of the Crusade.

>>54061767
And you can't read for shiz. The lore says nothing about losing and you tried to pass off the random warbands as Khorne's finest and mainbody of the crusade

>> No.54061959

>>54061901
>Just accept that Khornes finest had to leave a battle they weren't even winning, which is called a retreat, which is also called running away

Forgot this part.

It wasn't a retreat. Like i said, even if they were winning and had the Orks and Tyranids at their mercy, they would have left because they are tied to the Warpstorm that moved them from one battlefield to the next.

>> No.54061978

>>54061612
>. In fact, the text says that the Crusade is mainly daemons with the mortals are the riff raff that are attracted by the Crusade so their quality can range wildly. So you are an asshole.

The text says that forces joined in and dropped off at various points. it says nothing about them being riff raff, unless you somehow think a bunch of riff raff won 99.99% of the battles they were present in even after the daemons moved on.

>> No.54062054

>>54061978
>unless you somehow think a bunch of riff raff won 99.99% of the battles they were present in even after the daemons moved on.

No, the daemons won the battles being the main body of the Crusade. As text says, the spreaheads bloodshed attracted the Khornate warbands to tag along and the text says nothing about them being the finest of Khorne's mortals. They are just a collection of warband that happened to join up. Their quality, like I said, varies a lot

>> No.54062114

>>54061959
>It wasn't a retreat.
The daemons left via warp storm, the mortals are the ones doing the retreating.
>>54061937
>And we have no proof that they came to the party
>Literally shows the area of forces of the 'first and second blades' of the Blood Crusade that showed up at Octarius in >54060295, right above the forces of Octarius and the outcome blurb.
God DAMN do you suck at damage control.

>> No.54062119

>>54061937
>and we have no proof that they came to the party
Bruh they're literally listed in the blood crusade force chart. How are you gonna call someone out for not being able to read for shit when you can't even find names on a picture?
>>54061959
>Even if they were winning
But they weren't, which is the key difference between this battle and every other battle of the crusade, save one. In every other battle they either completely destroyed their foes or had them completely at their mercy before leaving. That's a victory. At Octarius they had to leave and they weren't winning, they didn't even have the xenos at their mercy. They had to forfeit the match

>> No.54062207

>>54062114
>the mortals are the ones doing the retreating.

Where does it say they are Khorne's finest as you said? Checkmate.

>God DAMN do you suck at damage control.

And you suck at reading. You said that the daemonkin elite were present in that battle. Where is this said? Where are the Skullsworn?

>>54062119
>Bruh they're literally listed in the blood crusade force chart.

Cunt, I read it. The only known Daemonkin warband on it is the Brazen Beasts and these guys lore is not explored.

The Elite of the Daemonkin Warbands are the SKULLSWORN, They were not present in that battle.

>But they weren't,

Not the point. The point that regardless of the battle conditions, they would have left because they are on a set time. The Daemons objective isn't destroying the Orks or Tyranids. There goal was to reap as much carnage and bloodshed as possible across as many battlefields as the Warpstorm take them.

>> No.54062287

>>54062207
Also I would like to add that the Brazen Beasts were reduced to a few survivors 5 years before the Great Rift was born.

>985.M41 MIRED IN BLOOD

>The Brazen Beasts face a splinter of Hive Fleet Behemoth on Horos. Though all but exterminated, the Daemonkin are victorious, drowning the planet in Tyranid ichor.

So even the known Daemonkin in that battle weren't at full force.

>> No.54062345

>>54062287
15 years*

>> No.54062475

>>54062207
>implying Khorne's finest is referring daemonkin
>ignoring the fact Ka'Bandha, Skarbrand, Doombree, Karanak, etc. were all there
"Khorne's finest" obviously refers to the champions of Khorne, not the 'daemonkin elite' you keep referring to.

>> No.54062526

>>54062475
See
"those are the same overwanked warbands from the daemonkin codex." >>54061901

Most of the Khornate champions were daemons who were bond to the warpstorm schedule.

The only Khorne's mortal finest that we know off in the battle is Kharn. The Rest are randoms and no-names.

>> No.54062659

>>54062475
He's shifted the goalposts into an area of the field so small no one is even playing there. No one ever said Khornes finest referred just to the mortals, but anon can't just accept that Khornes finest champions in a WAAC list had to forfeit a battle to the Orks and tyranids.

>>54062207
I hear it's a lot easier to reap massive amounts of skulls and blood when you're slaughtering your way through broken armies, not being fought to a standstill.

>> No.54062705

>>54062659
This has to be what, the 3rd or 4th time since 8e came out that anon's been called out on his damage control goalpost shifting?
Or am I mistaking him for Carnac?

>> No.54062805

>>54062526
Khornes finest is referring to the entire force present, I would know because I posted that.

>only kharn
Well he is the only mortal GW Khorne character they could have listed, there were likely several chaos lords and champions leading those warbands.

Even taking into account that not all the elite daemonkin warbands were there, are you going to ignore the fact that the entire world eater legion was present? An entire legion of chaos space marines, lead by a guy who solos titans, backed up by dozens of warbands and countless cultists, with a full mechanized component, had to retreat from Octaria once the daemons vanished. Defend this shit, Khornefags. The daemons may have been on a time limit, but what excuse do thousands of chaos space marines and their allies have for running away?

>> No.54062808

>>54062659
Nope, you are one consistently changed things. Look at the posting chain. First when I said that Khornate daemons didn't run, you switched to saying that mortals retreated all while claiming they were all Khorne's finest.

>but anon can't just accept that Khornes finest champions in a WAAC list had to forfeit a battle to the Orks and tyranids.

Except that isn't what happened. The text that the Blood Crusade had no destination or target. No goal other than bloodshed and carnage. And also that they are tied to the Warpstorms movements.

Bloodshed and carnage was had and the Warpstorm moved on taking the daemons with them.

>I hear it's a lot easier to reap massive amounts of skulls and blood when you're slaughtering your way through broken armies, not being fought to a standstill.

It easy to slaughter a whole lot if you are given more than a few hours but the fucking text says that the Crusade mostly lasted a few hours due to the movements of the Warpstorms that they rode around. So I heard you are dumbass that doesn't understand the text.

Like I said, EVEN IF THEY BROKE THE ORKS AND LINED THEM UP FOR CHOPPING, THE MINUTE THE WARPSTORM MOVES THE DAEMONS WOULD JUST LEAVE THE ORKS BE. Win or lose, it matter not. The storm was all.

>> No.54062825

>>54051727
Apparently the Ordo Sinister is similar to the Reductor, except they have the might and intellect of the Emperor and science behind them. So even more actual OP superweapons and shit.

God I love these ridiculous mary sue Ordos and subfactions that pop up. Its like an internal escalating arms race within the Imperium to build the most sketchy and irresponsible superweapons and place them in the hands of the most unaccountable and mysterious factions.

SURELY NOTHING COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG.

>> No.54062875

>>54062805
>Khornes finest is referring to the entire force present, I would know because I posted that.

A lot of force present are randoms that we know nothing of. So by what right did you call them Khorne's finest? They could be Khorne's worst for all we know.

>there were likely several chaos lords and champions leading those warbands.

Of unknown infamy and status.


>Even taking into account that not all the elite daemonkin warbands were there, are you going to ignore the fact that the entire world eater legion was present? An entire legion of chaos space marines, lead by a guy who solos titans, backed up by dozens of warbands and countless cultists, with a full mechanized component, had to retreat from Octaria once the daemons vanished. Defend this shit, Khornefags. The daemons may have been on a time limit, but what excuse do thousands of chaos space marines and their allies have for running away?

A few question. In Traitor's Hate/Angel's Blade, did the Khorne warbands retreat or did they fight to the last. Did Kharn retreat off world or did he decide to fight to the last with his dudes? The answer is that they choose to fight to the bitter end. Kharn was forcefully teleported away by a servant of Abaddon. So any proof that the Khornates mortals retreated?

>> No.54062877

>>54046371
this.
we know that tge tyranids have already eaten 12 otger5 galaxies. They're from far away and have nothing to do with the old ones, they may even be older than them.

>> No.54062902

>>54062705
>b-but the Orks and tyranids allied, that's what combined means!
>b-but they just left after a few hours because the warp storm dissipated, they probably were BTFOING Orks and Nids on the way out
>b-but only the daemons left and only because they were on a time limit
>b-but the rift war
>b-but those weren't even Khornes best mortals, never mind the entire world eater legion was there!

I'm pretty sure he's not Carnac but he continues to shift the goalposts or demand exact information from the text whenever we speculate based on the contextual evidence. even though he does this himself, for instance when he tried to call the mortal contingent of the crusade riff raff. All I want is for him to admit that the daemons forfeit the match and the mortals ran away, that is all.

>> No.54062925

>>54062902
Just do what I do and play his own game
He says orks and nids allied? I say Fine, but they killed khorne
RIP Khorne, we hardly knew ye, or cared.

>> No.54062970

>>54062902
Not a single goalpost was shifted other than your goalposts.

A) There is no such thing as a World Eater Legion. Kharn killed the legion and splintered it to many warbands.

B) I didn't claim that they were btfoing Orks. That's a lie. The only claim was the the daemons were on a timer that will force them to leave regardless of the battle conditions.

C) what does the Rift War was to do with anything. We don't know what;s the placement of the Octarius battle in the 1000 battles

>he crusade riff raff.

They are the riff raff of the crusade made up of after warband that was attracted to the spearheads. The daemons were the driving force and mainbody of the crusade.

>the mortals ran away, that is all.

The text says nothing.

And previous wars featuring Khornates had them dying to the last. Armageddon and Traitor's Blade being some.

>> No.54062993

>>54062825
>SURELY NOTHING COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG.
>Suddenly a bunch of Lootas steal about a third of these superweapons
Now THAT is a terrifying thought.

>> No.54063023

>>54062875
>Khornes champions are backed up by shit troops
>the entire world eater legion is shit

Careful there anon, the amount of damage control you're attempting could potentially open up a new warp rift.

>any proof they retreated?
About just as much proof as there is of them being teleported away or being wiped out to a man after being stranded on a half ork half tyranid death world with no supplies or reinforcements

>> No.54063054

>>54062875
>So any proof that the Khornates mortals retreated?
The alternative is that the ended up as new bosspole decorations or biomass slurry, and that's still considered a loss by all accounts.

>> No.54063066

>>54063023
>Careful there anon, the amount of damage control you're attempting could potentially open up a new warp rift.

Excep I never stated that. I guess said that the warbands that flocked to the Blood Crusade can range wildly in quality.

>About just as much proof as there is of them being teleported away or being wiped out to a man after being stranded on a half ork half tyranid death world with no supplies or reinforcements

So none. So stop saying that they retreated like its a sure thing.

And bitch please fighting under those conditions is the ideal for these warbands. I mean did not the Brazen Beasts and the Harvest annihilate BILLIONS of Tyranids on their own supplied and unsupported? Going by what's in the Daemonkin codex, the Khornate warbands still got a decent chance of victory.

brb for a bit.

>> No.54063083

>>54063023
Nigga they had beastmen with them
Any quality that the world eaters could have brought to the table was cancelled out by the presence of beastmen

>> No.54063120

>>54062970
>no such thing as a world eater legion
And yet they're listed here in legion strength. In the other charts like this involving chaos space marines they either have them at full legion strength or they list warbands when not everyone was there.

>the text says nothing

Are you saying the Mortals died to a man? They either ran away or they all got slaughtered, both are equally embarrassing and considered losing

>> No.54063162

>>54063066
Alright first you wanna say the mortals were all shitty rabble, now you're acting like they could thrive in a war stranded on Octaria. Are Khorne mortals shitty chaff or warbands that can crush planets? Which is it?

And where is the text saying Kharn even made it off? For all we know he got swallowed whole by a trygon or pulled down by endless poison gaunts

>> No.54063197

>>54063066
>Excep I never stated that. I guess said that the warbands that flocked to the Blood Crusade can range wildly in quality.
Except we know EXACTLY what quality this Blood Crusade had due to the org chart listing.

>>54063066
>So stop saying that they retreated like its a sure thing.
Listen anon. We're being NICE by saying they retreated. The alternative is they got ripped apart by the hellish Ork v Nid meatgrinder to the very last man (sans Kharn of course).

Yes, the Brazen Beast and Harvest annihilated billions of Nids.
From Hive Behemoth.
This is COUNTLESS Nids from Leviathan, all being commanded by the Swarmlord.

And that's not even taking into account the damn uncountable number of Orks led by Ghazzy and equipped with cutting-edge Ork tech that'd be hitting the Khornates from the rear.

>> No.54063374

>>54051953
>>54052606
>>54055379
>>54060094
>>54060295
>>etc.
>thread about Imperium v Nids
>Orkfags have to derail by posting their cherry picked propaganda for no reason

>> No.54063456

>>54063120
>And yet they're listed here in legion strength. In the other charts like this involving chaos space marines they either have them at full legion strength or they list warbands when not everyone was there.

The fluff says that the Legion died in that fateful day. Those are just warbands joined together to form a single and temporarily force.

>Are you saying the Mortals died to a man? They either ran away or they all got slaughtered, both are equally embarrassing and considered losing

Or they are still fighting and thriving on the slaughter. Like I said they got a decent chance of winning. They have the Brazen Beasts with them who can lead them to victory.

And even if they lose, Khorne cares not whence the blood flows. They will gain favor from him.

>>54063162
I said that their quality range varies vastly, serveral time. The riff raff statement is about them being a mismatched collection of warbands randomly joining the Blood Crusade.

>And where is the text saying Kharn even made it off?

...Where did i claimed that Kharn got off in that post? Are you crazy?

>Except we know EXACTLY what quality this Blood Crusade had due to the org chart listing.

No, we don't. The only known-ish warbrand is the Brazen Beasts and World Eaters. The others look like non-names with unknown qualities. Stop bullshiting my god.

>Listen anon. We're being NICE by saying they retreated. The alternative is they got ripped apart by the hellish Ork v Nid meatgrinder to the very last man (sans Kharn of course).

And I am being reasonable and seeing that they are still kicking ass there.

Swarmlord craplord. It matters not. The Kharn is there and the Brazen Beasts are there with their Tyranid Killing Expertise. These are more enough to lead the Khornate warbands to victory.

I mean the Blood Crusade daemons are gone but there is nothing stopping the Khortes from invoking their daemon pacts to bring forth their allied daemon legions.

>> No.54063469

>>54063456
continued...

I am serious. The Khornate warbands have a decent chance of scoring a victory or making ita close one. It's far from finished.

Each daemonkin warrior present in the battle is equal to a million tyranids.

>> No.54063538

>>54063374
It got derailed by Khorne.

>> No.54063586

>>54062902
Not him, but going only by
>>54060295
>>54061978
your claim is bullshit.

>the Khorne armies get thrown onto a planet
>fighting comes to a standstill
>Daemons get sucked away as the Warp storm moves forward
>the mortal soldiers follow

So they didn't ran away because of the meat grinder, they retreated because the Warp storm moved on. As they did "in most cases"

>> No.54063633

>>54062993
Well Lootas did take over a weapons testing world in one of the fluff blurbs in the previous edition.

It ended the way you'd expect it too, with dakka unleashed on multiple planets.

>> No.54063697

>>54063469
>>54063456
>Or they are still fighting and thriving on the slaughter. Like I said they got a decent chance of winning. They have the Brazen Beasts with them who can lead them to victory.
>Against Orks and Nids who have been fighting non-stop for over 100 years over a single planet with each side getting stronger and and tougher each day
The Brazen Beasts are going to do fuck all. All that nid expertise means jackshit when you find yourself being hacked to death by an Ork Stompa while you're crushing some gaunts' skull under your boot.

Khorne's forces lost. Plain and simple. Either they retreated or they all died, because there's no way in hell the mortals would be able to survive sticking around that fucking meatgrinder.

>> No.54063796

>>54063697
No, they didn't. The warbands will obvious fight on and they have warriors whose entire shtick revolves around throwing themselves in the worst kind of meatgrinders against foes that outnumbered by a crazy degree. Just a second let me copypasta the feats of the daemonkin.

>> No.54063834

>>54062825
>Apparently the Ordo Sinister is similar to the Reductor

Ordo Sinister is literally the emps his personal anti-psyker titan legion. Kill the unkillable eldar fucks and terrify worlds into compliance by just marching by.

Ordo Reductor are the crazy weapon scientists that love to perpetrate xenocides.

>> No.54063903

>>54063796
>166.M40 IMMORTALITY’S PRICE

>The Skullsworn fall upon the hive world of Rebas. They are opposed by over one hundred regiments of Astra Militarum, each well dug in and supplied. The war that follows is horrific in its intensity and bloodshed, but after the slaughter of eighty-eight of the defenders’ regiments, the eight surviving Skullsworn ascend to become Daemon Princes simultaneously. Soon enough, nothing remains on Rebas but mountains of skulls.

>301.M40 MARTYRS’ GLORY

>A Daemonkin warband known as the Fists of Brass hurl themselves into the teeth of Waaagh! Badstomp. Explosive carnage breaks out across the seventeen moons of the Madrakae as the two war-hungry hordes collide head on. Massively outnumbered, the Fists of Brass are wiped out within days. However, the oceans of blood they spill draw eight legions of Khorne’s Daemons into reality, starting the war afresh.

>366.M40 PARADISE LOST

>The Wrath fall upon the verdant Eldar Exodite world of Klithaine. In just three months they reduce the paradise to a blood-drenched hell and then slaughter the Biel-Tan warriors who attempt to intervene, devouring their corpses in a horrific feast.

>> No.54063946

>>54063903
>316.M41 DANGEROUS PREY

>After fierce fighting amid the macrotemples of Skeros, the Wych Cult of Tortured Hopes capture a Chaos Lord of the Skullsworn. Bearing him back to Commorragh, the Dark Eldar throw the Daemonkin champion into their gladiatorial arena. Their sport is spoiled, however, when a Bloodthirster bursts from their captive mid-battle. The Daemonic incursion that follows is catastrophic, and results in the utter destruction of an entire sub-realm of the Dark City.

>678.M41 GODS AND MONSTERS

>The Brazen Beasts go to war against the Knights of House Hawkshroud on a death world known only as XIII. Vast war engines duel across the haunted ruinscape, rendering all to rubble. Finally, the Brazen Beasts are victorious after the Caged God slays Hawkshroud’s Baron Arcus in a titanic duel.

>946.M41 THE THREAT WITHIN

>The Harvest erupt from blood-portals within the fortress monastery of the Black Ravens Space Marines Chapter. Days of fierce fighting follow, during which the Harvest kill every last loyalist within the monastery’s walls and use its defence lasers to blast apart the Ravens’ orbital shipyards. Bloodied and exalting, the Daemonkin drop the fortress’ void shields and prepare for the true battle as a tendril of Hive Fleet Behemoth fills the skies.

>985.M41 MIRED IN BLOOD

>The Brazen Beasts face a splinter of Hive Fleet Behemoth on Horos. Though all but exterminated, the Daemonkin are victorious, drowning the planet in Tyranid ichor.

>> No.54063975

>>54063946
>994.M41 DISASTER ON YNGROTH

>Whilst pursuing Harlequins of the Masque of the Silent Shroud, the Wrath battle their way through the Grey Canyons of Yngroth. Just as the Harlequins seem cornered, a warhost from Craftworld Yme-Loc springs from ambush, catching the Wrath in a devastating crossfire. For long moments the Eldar plan looks set to work, until Arbra’Gax, Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage, bursts into reality. Led by this unstoppable demigod of war, the Khornate horde smash their way out of the Eldar ambush, which swiftly devolves into a massacre as the Blood God’s forces punish their devious foes.

>997.M41 ONE HUNDRED SKULLS

>Responding to a daemonic incursion on Hyraq II, a Brotherhood of Grey Knights plunges into battle. Crimson lightning tears the skies as the Grey Knights drive the Daemons back into the Warp, only to face fresh assault by the Bloodgorged. Retreating to a ruined temple, the surviving Grey Knights fight for their lives. In death, every Daemonkin they slay brings forth one of the Daemons the Grey Knights had already banished, until they are overrun by the screaming horde.

>998.M41 THE SWALLOWED WORLD

>Gha’Kharax, Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury, leads the Eightscarred and Skullsworn against the Imperial fortress world of Almarit. The Daemonkin face elements of the Imperial Fists and Raven Guard, reinforced by several regiments of Tempestus Scions. The war grinds on long and bloody, but one by one the Daemonkin reconsecrate the planet’s furnace-temples in bloody ceremonies of ritual sacrifice. As the last shrine falls, Almarit is dragged whole into the Warp, claimed by Khorne as a new Daemon world.

>> No.54063986

>>54063975
>AGAINST THE SWARMS

>Led by packs of snarling Warp Talons, the Harvest audaciously tore their way through the Immaterium and straight into the seething innards of a Tyranid hive ship.

>Spilling into the guts of the mega-beast, the Harvest set about slaughtering the writhing creature from the inside out. Though it sent showers of acid and swarms of weapon beasts against them, the hive ship could not purge its tormentors. Carving a path through the fleshy walls and pulsing viscera that confronted them, the Harvest slew the enormous beast in the name of Khorne, before digging in to resist the inevitable counter-attack. Sure enough, Tyranid bio-craft soon latched onto the hide of their shoal-mate, spewing swarm after swarm of horrors into its carcass. Yet the Harvest counter-charged time and again, the body count rising until Daemons tore through the veil to lend their blades to the battle. Finally, the last Tyranid beasts fell, bodies riddled with bolts and brutally sawn apart. Ichor stained and victorious, the last of the Harvest howled Khorne’s praises into the void.

>> No.54064291

>>54063796
>battle was a standstill when all the daemons were there
>daemons left
>massive portion of the army, including all the most powerful champions
>massive areas where Orks and tyranids were deadlocked with daemons suddenly open ground
>mortals now completely surrounded
I don't think their chances were very good dude

>> No.54066737

>>54046371
Yes, because Imperial records are famed for their historical accuracy.

>> No.54066747

>>54062877
Proof that they've consumed other galaxies?

>> No.54067038

>>54066747
5e rulebook tyranid fluff blurb
"the barren husks of a dozen galaxies lie in their wake."

>> No.54067881

>>54055295
What this guy said. Seriously, there's no need for a pissing contest.
The potency of any one particular race or faction is entirely dictated by the author's preferences and GW sales agenda

>> No.54067909

>>54060094
Are the Ork gods actually real?
I understand that if enough Orks believe something then it becomes manifest purely by their innate psychic potential. The thought of two Ork deities being conjured into existence (with Ork-given idealised traits) is quite terrifying.

Surely if Gork and Mork were real then they'd just completely skullfuck all the existing Chaos nonsense

>> No.54067948

>>54063374
>derailed
>nobody actually talking about the Imperium anymore
>more people talking about Orks, Chaos and the warp

no one cares, start a new thread if you want

>> No.54067985

>>54066747
every Tyranid codex ever?

>> No.54068053

>>54051630
>Believe Vulkan is death

>> No.54068138

Would humanity have a chance against the Nids during the DAoT?

>> No.54068466

>>54068138

DaoT humanity would likely win with ease.

>> No.54069091

>>54067909
>Surely if Gork and Mork were real then they'd just completely skullfuck all the existing Chaos nonsense
Well, they do have some lore beyond in-universe legends about them, so Gork n' Mork definitely exist.
Are they the strongest in all of the Warp? One would think that, but until GW's writers stop using 'Warp' and 'Realm of Chaos' interchangeably (You can have the Warp without the 'Realm of Chaos', but you can't have the "Realm of Chaos" without the Warp) and referring to the Chaos Gods as the most powerful beings in the Warp/Realm of Chaos, the Big Four are practically the strongest beings in there.
That said, Gork n' Mork are last I checked the still toughest gods in the Warp, and capable of shrugging off any attacks by the Chaos Gods and laughing in their face afterward.

It makes sense, given that in order to kill the two Ork gods, you'd have to slaughter every last greenskin in the Milky Way (along with every single greenskin currently floating around beyond the galaxy if the extragalactic probe sent out by humanity in 26k in the older lore is still canon), something that's just simply not possible. You'd have to use some sort of Halo Ring-type weapon to pull that off, and no faction in 40k has that kind of technology at its disposal.

>> No.54069470

>>54068053
>implying I was saying he got permakilled after fighting Da Beast
He's a perpetual mate. Of course he got better later. That's practically a given when talking about Vulkan.

>> No.54069625

>>54044870
If every single Tomb World would wake up at the same time and be actually united (they won't unless the Silent King was there for them) then most likely they would roflstomp the Imperium
Because aren't the 'Crons implied to have tech on level with the Eldar empire (before them offed themselves) and DAoT humans?

>> No.54069748

>>54069625
Not really. They have tech that surpasses anything in the dark age or eldar empire as much as those tech surpasses current tau tech.

They have a fucking orrery that is able to make any star in the galaxy go supernova at any time.

>> No.54070105

>>54045006
Tyranids aren't impressed by Sunfury Plasma Annihilators, I highly doubt Volkite chargers will bother them

>> No.54070244

>>54045006
>>Hive mind:MUUUH BIOMASS!REEEEE
You can't destroy biomass by burning it, lol

Also, 50 gaunts dying is a joke, the swarms throw tens of thousands of them away just to waste the enemies ammunition before a real attack.

>> No.54070266

>>54043168
>Besides, all fleets so far encountered have a single overwhelming weakness; they need to move forward, need to continually feed, or they overstretch their lines of supply.
...no? Tyranids don't have lines of supply. Hive Fleets are self-contained.

>> No.54070343

>>54036761
If the Tyranids invaded in drips and drabs like they are in 40k, there's no contest. The Tyranids, much to my chagrin, would get mulched without much effort on the Imperium's part.

If they invaded with literally everything they had at once? Different story. I'd predict a Tyranid victory, but a hard fought one.

Question of the Heresy is dependent entirely on when they invaded.

>> No.54070371

>>54069625
latest Necrons codex states that if the Necrons all woke up they would be just as numerous as the imperium. Humans stand zero chance against them

>> No.54070864

>>54068138
The same chance they have against the Necrons, except humans actually have biomass worth consuming

>> No.54070974

>>54070371
The Imperium is made of a million worlds. Necron Tomb worlds numbers in many millions.

>> No.54071052

>>54070974
Million minus one.

Cadia is gone.

>> No.54071470

>>54070974

>> No.54071910

>entire legion worth of chaos space marines couldn't do shit on Octarius
>space marine legions would totally wreck tyranids guise

>> No.54072335

>>54067038
>>54067985

Supposition. Not proof.

>> No.54073085

>>54052925
Why exacty does ABD have so much pull on that fact with all the other writers though? Do they all have daddy issues or do they genuinly think it's good story telling for some reason?

>> No.54073741

No different since 30k era Marines were shit compared to their 40k counterparts and dies like itches in droves from the pettiest shit.

30k Marines are suped up Scions with worse standard issue gear but better special tech

40k Marines are actual super soldiers with better standard issue tech but no sweet heresy era special tech

Also, Nustartes being quicker and easier to train/create and ending up as a starkly superior product compared to both

>> No.54074084

>>54073741
30k galaxy had some pretty deadly shit, I don't think they died in droves due to being inferior. Only difference between 30k legionaries and 40k marines that I know of is the degree of psycho-conditioning they're subjected to, which seems to have begun during the Heresy to ensure blind loyalty to their creator's faction, at least according to the Forgeworld books.

No real effect on combat capability, if anything it'd be a detriment and make the 40k marines less imaginative, they certainly have stunted personalities.

>> No.54074136

>>54073741
>30k era Marines were shit compared to their 40k counterparts
>30k Marines are suped up Scions

>> No.54074252

>>54072335
it's written from an all knowing narrators perspective, its proof.

>> No.54074352

>>54074084
Top three Chapter Masters are deadlier than any 30k chaos marine veteran. Including the no-arms.

>> No.54074392

>>54042363
because the others arrive from the galactic rim, leviathan is is angled slightly below the plane so it hits further in.

>> No.54074542

>>54072335
Stop being a faggot

>> No.54077147

>>54074084
I think the way they fought also had something to do with their casualty rates back in the crusade. Nowadays it's rare to see more than a company of marines in one battle, and they fight in squads and not huge formations like in the crusade. Once you have thousands strong formations of space marines, they suffer hard from inverse ninja law and fighting them just becomes an issue of getting through their armor. Pretty much every tyranid weapon stronger than gaunt level weapons shit all over ceramics armor

>> No.54077823

>>54074252
I'm not terribly convinced.

>> No.54077881

The emperor BTFO all 4 chaos gods so bad they had to pull out of Horus. The hivemind was casually pushed aside by slaanesh. Emps would wreck the hivemind

>> No.54078221

>>54060295

Waaaait. Skarbrand, Ka'Bandha, Kharn, AND Doombreed all showed up on the same planet? In the middle of the nastiest Ork / Nid war in the history of history? Chaos faggots really CAN'T resist waving their collective dick every single time, can they?

>> No.54079990

>>54078221
What's most amazing is that they failed to do anything noteworthy but fight to a standstill before they left. They had to pull out while they weren't even winning, Khorne was probably pissed

>> No.54081175

>>54077823
i don't know how it could be more convincing, its an explicit statement of fact in a rulebook. You can't get more canon or certain than that in 40k.

>> No.54081240

>>54079990
Where is the proof that they didn't do anything noteworthy? They were there as a random stop. Their mission was to cause carnage and bloodshed for as long as the storm stays put. Win or lose, curbstomp or standstill, they would have left as the storm moved on. Khorne would be pleased either way because the Blood Crusade mission is single. Spread havoc and bloodshed across the stars. It wasn't a crusade of conquest.

>> No.54081508

>>54081240
Where is the proof that they did do anything noteworthy? Because all the text says they did is fight to a standstill until they left via warp storm. Which isn't noteworthy at all.

>> No.54081587

>>54081508
>Where is the proof that they did do anything noteworthy?

You are the one making the claim. It's on you.

They weren't there to win any wars or battle. They were there to cause carnage and bloodshed and leave. The harvested blood and skulls is enough to satisfy them as they relocated to the next battle. They could have stacked mountains of skulls and took them before leaving.

>> No.54081827

>itt a nice discussion about tyrabuds and 30k is ruined by an assmad chaos cock sucker

CHAOS WAS A MISTAKE

>> No.54082031

>>54081827
They started it.

>> No.54082206

>>54051630
>Use the serie about how ork will never be able to be a major threat to wank orks power in a debate about ultramarines vs tyranid


How retarded can you be ?
We BTFO the best and biggest ork waagh. even unified orks wont dent the Imperium Of ManTM

>> No.54082829

>>54037149
But back in those days, the imperium wasn't tied down by the Codex. They were adaptive. They'd learn quick that attrition just doesn't work against 'nids, and adjust accordingly.

>> No.54083470

>>54082206
>imperial fists wiped the fuck out >imperium losing just about every major battle, badly
>several chapter masters wiped out, including ultramarines
>Vulkan BTFO
>high lords verbally humiliated in their own court by an ORK AMBASSADOR
>attack moon appears right above terra, imperium weeks away from falling
>only won through extremely retarded plot device, not through hard fought military campaign
Imperium didn't BTFO shit. They spent that entire war getting thoroughly bent over and GREENED.com and only won through an extremely retarded plot device. The Sisters of silence trick was cheap bullshit, as was the war not being over as soon as that attack moon appeared above terra. The writers wanked the Orks into high heavens for no reason, then realized they completely backed themselves into a corner.


That's as retarded as the tyranids demolishing a first founding chapter and all of their successors on their home world, having them completely by the balls, only for a warp storm to wipe out the entire fleet and then the primarch himself appear with his crusade immediately after to mop up the rest on the planet, while a Khorne daemknnwioes out the rest on one of the moons but doesn't make any move against the weakened space marines. Oh wait, that actually happened. GW gonna GW

>> No.54086869

>>54081587
>They could have stacked mountains of skulls and took them before leaving.

They also could have been getting drowned in grotz and gaunts before leaving, we just don't know

>> No.54087969

>>54086869
But that doesn't stop xenosfags from making claim after claim, does it?

>> No.54088406

>>54052203
This. Now what I think would be interesting, how would Chaos react? They need worshippers, would they end up assisting the Imperium against the nids?

>> No.54088491

>>54060058
I think that's why the chaos gods' war in the warp against each other can never end. After all, any fighting helps Khorne, any time you take satisfaction or pleasure in anything you help Slaanesh, any time you change something you help Tzeentch and any time you don't you help Nurgle. All of the gods are powering each other just as they gain power for themselves, and to actually start winning would need actions that would fuel the others enough to stop you

>> No.54088545

>>54061522
>And I don't remember any fluff saying that Chaos will destroy every other faction as a matter of time
Then your memory must be lousy. Fluff constantly says that Chaos is eternal, that it will outlast everything. That's why it's sometimes called the Primordial Annihilator in HH books, because it will destroy all.

>> No.54088620

>>54073085
Daddy problem boys always have ego issues in some form or another.

>> No.54088649

>>54062825
Ordo Sinister is just the psyker Titan Legion, WAYY less superweapons and much smaller. Just VERY good at scaring things into compliance and winning the shit out of Titan fights. Reductor have fleets bullshit enough to just Nuke Them From Orbit, but the Sinister are probably scary in a ground battle even though they have only 20 Titans. Ordo Sinister is a hammer, Ordo Reductor is a surgeon with a set of custom tools.

>> No.54088662

>>54074084
I think 40k marines are more potent warriors individually. The codex limitations forces them to really good or their chapter would die off.

>> No.54090134

>>54088662
In 40k the space marines are mostly there for pin point surgical strikes, they're gonna take out the enemy leadership and elite or bring down some important strategic target. The imperial guard is the main army doing most of the fighting. In 30k the space marines were the main army, with the imperial army serving as auxiliaries who mostly just held conquered territories. I don't think crusade era imperium had nearly the amount of imperial guard manpower they do now.

The way space marines fight now is a hard counter to tyranids. The way they fought in the crusade is much less effective, it just becomes an issue of what tyranid weapons can get through their armor and pretty much everything not wielded by gaunts does that

>> No.54090345

>>54044870

They would get fucked raw like everything else.

There is seriously no single opposing force in 40k lore that could have taken Great-crusades imperium except itself, hence the civil-war.

The emperor 1v1'd the Void Dragon incase you forgot.

>> No.54090482

>>54090345
>There is seriously no single opposing force in 40k lore that could have taken Great-crusades imperium except itself, hence the civil-war
Those are some pretty big claims you got there

>> No.54090614

>>54090482

Well nothing in 30k stood a chance. Perhaps pre-rapture Eldar or something might have, but they lacked discipline.

>> No.54090638

>>54052606
which one is which? i'm so confused.

>> No.54090741

>>54046376
lmao, if anything necrons are the anti nids by definition.

>> No.54090840

>>54090482
Eldar Empire, Necron Empire, Old one empire, and to be honest 40k fully awakened necrons and 40k full hive fleet could probably do it

>> No.54090881

>>54038702
>Primarchs can kill warlord titans in 1v1 combat in the fluff

what a bunch of wank.

>> No.54090925

>>54090881
So true. Especially since the more they get wanked, the more autistic screeching would occur if anyone NOT a primarch managed to beat one, thus making it impossible to bring down the wank levels.

>> No.54091016

>>54090840

What makes you think either Eldar or Necron empires could have taken a fully united Imperium with full SM legions, the Emperor and all of it's Primarchs?

We don't know that much about them because they are all distant and vague exposition anyway.

>> No.54091038

>>54090741
agreed but my point still stands, silent king says a fully united necron front cant stop the nids if they keep eating away at the imperium etc

>> No.54091111

>>54091016
The eldar empire? The one that ruled the galaxy with 0 opposition? The one that was so advanced golden age humanity didn't stand a chance?

And the necrons, the ones who could go toe to toe with the eldars makers? The ones who have literally "finished" science? The ones who are a numerous as humanity?

Yeah both would take 30k imperium with little effort

>> No.54091197

>>54091111

Golden age humanity didn't exist at the same time, so how the hell can you know they didn't stand a chance? Golden age humanity dominated the Galaxy too.

> 0 opposition

Oh right, so they fucked themselves to death because they were just so badass right? Pretty sure they were in no form to fight the Imperium if all they were just abunch of Hedonistic layabouts.

Anything to do with the "Old ones" timeline is so nebulous and ill-defined that you can't make any bold claims about how effective they would be vs the armies and factions we actually have logistical data on.

>> No.54091472

>>54036761
I think it'd be pretty well weighted in the 30k Imperium's favor. The Tyranid Hive Fleets come in non-FTL speed waves that a young organized Imperium that isn't a bureaucratic hellhole with its integrated Army/Navy and Space Marine Legions commanded directly by the Primarchs could likely handle pretty well.

If all the Hive Fleets hit at once from their original routes then things might be a little more bleak. The best chance of a fair fight between the two would be the Great Crusade beginning and Hive Fleets arriving in the Milky Way at the same time. A couple decades for the Tyranids to eat their way through helpless human space and gain strength before running headlong into the expanding Great Crusade.

>> No.54091989

>>54091197
>Golden age humanity didn't exist at the same time, so how the hell can you know they didn't stand a chance? Golden age humanity dominated the Galaxy too

Yes they did, humanity spread through the stars, colonising tens of thousands of worlds, and the Eldar Empire stood strong and ignored them because they were totally unimportant, its once the fall happened that the emperor decided to show himself and rally humanity

>Anything to do with the "Old ones" timeline is so nebulous and ill-defined that you can't make any bold claims about how effective they would be vs the armies and factions we actually have logistical data on.

We know anything from that era severely trumps what we have, the war in heaven was greater than the horus heresy

>> No.54092012

>>54091197
>Golden age humanity didn't exist at the same time
oh dude, the golden age ended the exact same time as the Aeldari Empire

>> No.54092296

>>54043236
Eldars are deceptive fucks who probably planned something nasty and vile with these humans, since that's what Eldars do. it was a mercy kill.

>> No.54095472

>>54091197
>Oh right, so they fucked themselves to death because they were just so badass right? Pretty sure they were in no form to fight the Imperium if all they were just abunch of Hedonistic layabouts.

More like they were so badass and unconcerned with golden age humanity or anyone else that they had nothing better to do than fuck themselves to death.

>> No.54095693

>>54091016
The 30k imperium wasn't nearly as strong or unstoppable as you're making them out to be. They were almost destroyed by the Rangdan Xenos and took heavy casualties against foes many times. Fully united Necrons have as many warriors as the imperium does citizens, they'd absolutely wreck 30k imperium. the Silent King, the only character who knows the true extent of both the Necrons and the tyranids, is worried that this might not even be enough to stop the main fleet.

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