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/tg/ - Traditional Games


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>> No.53698788

First for 8th edition Ork Edition

>> No.53698790

Last night people were working out Ork Boys vs Conscripts mathhammer. Did they reach any conclusions?

>> No.53698798

here a good way to start the thread, name one unit /tg/ thinks has gone from "zero to hero" in the jump from 7th- 8th

>> No.53698799

>brushes always develop a little hook, where the bristles curve
Why? I don't keep paint on them for more than a minute or 2 between dipping them in water and "drawing" lightly on a napkin to clean them off.

Are armypainter brushes shit tier or something?

>> No.53698804

So who's the best chinaman, Z or Alpharius? Or someone else entirely?

>> No.53698816

>>53698798
Fire warriors will break the meta

>> No.53698820

>>53698790
Yes.

>> No.53698822

>>53698790
>ork boyz vs conscript math hammer
god i love 8th so much already

>> No.53698823

>>53698798
Hellblasters

>> No.53698835

>>53698790
whatever the results are it will be enough blood to please Khorne

>> No.53698874

>>53698798
shadowsword went from a small pie plate that would need a lucky six to kill something to what it is in the lore, able to cripple or even kill a knight titan in one shot

>> No.53698876

Anyone else hate the primaris helmet style?

I like beakies and the regular old helmet style better.

>> No.53698897

>>53698804
Alpharius is ruskie, I think.

Regardless, Alpha is almost always just FW stuff (and better for it). Z for everything else.

I bought 30 sisters off him that were pretty decent for 30 fucking bucks. Maybe ~5 were pretty bad? mostly the faces, which I cut off and replaced with other heads anyway.

>> No.53698899

Thoughts on list? Worried it's lacking anti vehicle stuff personally. Could maybe downscale a bit and get an exalted sorcerer with 5 rubrics, all with flamers in a land raider, but it does seem a bit too many eggs in one basket.

Ahriman on Disc 166

Daemon Prince of Tzeentch with twin malefic talon and warp bolter 165

5 Scarab Occult Terminators with Soulreaper Cannon and Hellfyre Missiles 266

Helbrute with twin lascannon and helbrute fist with combi bolter 164

Helbrute with twin lascannon and power scourge 165

10 Tzaangors with Tzaangor Blades and Instrument of Chaos 70

10 Tzaangors with Tzaangor Blades and Instrument of Chaos 70

10 Rubric Marines with Soulreaper Cannon and Warpflamer
256

10 Rubric Marines with Soulreaper Cannon and Warpflamer
256

10 Rubric Marines with Soulreaper Cannon and Warpflamer
256

Rhino with Havoc Launcher and Combi Bolter 83

Rhino with Havoc Launcher and Combi Bolter 83

Total points for army 2000

>> No.53698900

>>53698798

Sanguinary Guard

>> No.53698906

>>53698876
Nope, it's my favourite one. Too bad I don't play Loyalists.

>> No.53698912

So I just finished Dead Men Walking and boy was it emotionally draining. Good, but draining. Has Steve Lyons worked on any other books?

>> No.53698913

So I'm getting back into 40k now that 8'th seems to be unfucking everything, and I have a few of the old metal models from the Inquisitor game back in the early 2000's. Would Artemis or Tyrus make a good proxy for Roboute Guilliman? I really don't like the look of his model, it's too bilngy

>> No.53698916

>>53698876
Heads are still compatible I think

>> No.53698929

>>53698876
I quite like it, makes sense to have a bit of protection for the filter rather than just having it out in the open
>>53698804
I don't think Alpharius is a chink, then again I might be wrong
>>53698798
Ork Boyz :^)

>> No.53698936

>>53698876

>old helmet style

Primaris Marines use mkIV Maximus style helmet. Beakies were mkVI.

>> No.53698938

>>53698798
pic related

>> No.53698944

>>53698912
Down amongst the dead men, still about kriegers, still depressing, but a short story

>> No.53698950

How well trained is a Space Marine in close combat? Are they versed in martial arts, or just enough to operate their weapons effectively?

>> No.53698958

>>53698876
I've replaced all mine with other helmets, and a tiny bit of green-stuff under the head-placement to lift it up a little bit.

>> No.53698965

>>53698936
>old helmet style
I mean this style

>> No.53698975

>>53698950
At least in the HH books, Astartes trained extensively for CC, via sparring matches etc.

>> No.53698980

>>53698950
They spend literally their whole life training in all forms of combat, they're fluffwise excellent in melee

>> No.53698981

>>53698798
Hellions are amazing now with a 14" move and an extra attack.
Or how about 16" with drugs? Or Str 5?
I'm excited for my little Green Goblins to be good.

>> No.53698982

>>53698950
Pretty well trained, they go toe to toe with eldar on occasion.

>> No.53698989

Anyone know any good shapeways store (or anywhere else) that sells good helmet replacements that fit space marines?

>> No.53699003

>>53698989
Puppetswar and maxmini are my favorite, but there's a whole list in WIP

>> No.53699012

>>53698912
>>53698944
Btw, here you go anon :)

>> No.53699013

>>53698876

I actually unironically like the look of the Primaris Marines

>> No.53699016

>>53698950
Extremely well trained, spending in some cases centuries mastering the art of combat.

And that boys and girls is why they are only ~16.6% more accurate in combat than a fucking Guardsman.

>> No.53699027

>>53698975
>>53698980
That doesn't say much, you could spar extensively and still have no technique. And I don't think they'd have enough time to develop them just by sparring, since the other aspects of war (small unit tactics, weapon operation and maintenance, survivalism, communication, combat drills, etc) are much more important and time consuming.

>> No.53699038

>>53699013
Me too. Wish bolt riffles where rapid fire 2

>> No.53699044

>>53698950
They're all basically bruce lee with the musculature and build of a fucking gorilla.

All humans except assassins, and people heavily enhanced by bionics are totally outclassed. Space marines are faster, stronger, more precise, and with superior technical skill.

Also they know kung fu

>> No.53699046

>>53698798
Troops in general

>> No.53699048

hows this look for my first full game of 8th?to me it feels "not enough anti armor/10"
>nb4 he's using retard points
Battalion
99 power level
>Cryptek
>Destroyer Lord
>overlord
> 2X 10 warriors in a ghost ark
>1X 20 warrior unit
>1X monolith
>2X 3 destroyers + 1 heavy

>> No.53699069

>>53698897
Nice to know. Is his stuff in resin or gw plastic?

>> No.53699071

>>53699048
>Power Level

>> No.53699084

>>53698876
I like it, but it's deffinatly messes up the iconic look of SM's. Regardless GW said the actual kits (not the starter set marines) will be compatible with older marks of helmets and shoulder pads.

>> No.53699089

>>53699048
>99 power level
what does this mean in non autist

>> No.53699092

>>53699048
can someone convert this to points

>> No.53699093

>>53699027
You asked a question and got an answer, shitheel.

>> No.53699096

>>53699044
>all humans are totally outclassed
Caiphas Cain went toe to toe with a high ranking astartes and even glanced his armor a few times
though he was considered an amazing swordsman even by the inquisitions high standards, and he admitted that if it was a real fight he'd have lost

>> No.53699097

>>53699048
Fuck the haters. Power levels save time in list building.

>> No.53699100

How's it look? The lord can either chill with the cultists or drop with the sorc and termies. The Sorc runs warptime and prescience to buff the terminators so they can mow shit down with 40 2+ bolter shots and follow up with 21 S6 -1 hits. On average, they'll drop 10 MEQ, 26 Orks, or 33 GEQ. If the lord drops with them, they can reroll 1s on top of the fact. The raptors hang back and play cleanup while the Brute moves forward and chips away at shit until it can smash. It's nice because it doesn't degrade as it gets wounded, either. Hell, it might make MORE shooting.

CSM Battalion
1000pts 6CP

>HQ
Sorcerer w/Jump Pack, Force sword, and Bolt Pistol
Lord w/Terminator Armor, Power Maul, Combi-Bolter

>Troops
3x Cultists x10 w/Autoguns

>Elites
Terminators x10 w/Combi-Bolters and Power Mauls
Hellbrute w/Fist, Combi-Bolter, Reaper Autocannon

>Fast
Raptors x10 w/CMelta, Melta x2

>> No.53699105

>>53698798
Conscripts becamse the best unit in the game

>> No.53699108

>>53698981

I played a game with 10 of them last night against guard. Lost 5 of them to him stealing initiative, killed 4 dudes with the remaining 5s shooting, lost 3 to overwatch and the last 2 killed 5 (all hit all wound all kill).

I didn't have many targets to choose from so they felt wasted, I think they're going to be excellent marine hunters with strength 5.

>> No.53699110

>>53699071
>>53699089
>>53699092
about 2000, its made for people to just bash together quick lists and play

>> No.53699112

>>53699089
Roughly 2000 points.

>> No.53699114

>>53699048
>power level

>> No.53699120

>>53699097
>we make making points stupidly complicated
>that means power levels are somehow a better substitute

Just because you light your house on fire doesn't make the cheapest motel in town suddenly a better place to live.

>> No.53699124

>>53699097
>I don't have 10 minutes (if that) to ensure the fairness and fun of a 2 hour long game

>> No.53699129

>>53699097
I've seen more broken/unbalanced games using power levels than I have seen balanced/interesting games. They should have assumed you were maxed out on equipment, not some "mid drange".

>> No.53699133

>>53699110
a bit less than 2000, id say thats closer to 1850-1700

>> No.53699134

so actual day 1 errata/FAQs
Not the bullshit clearly wrong, why do we have to tell you idiots not to be stupid, stuff.
Hell, no 'i don't like these rules' shit.

Just little weird wordings, typos, missing lines. Stuff that gets missed when your putting out several hundreds of pages of rules.

1) Master of Ordinance doesn't list the barrage as part of it's wargear
2) Wrack leader is listed as being able to take 'tools of torment', but those are listed as replacing a range weapon, and the wrack leader doesn't have one to replace.
3) Autarch weapon list
I could be wrong on this, but it looks like you can take 2 deathspinner/catapults on an autarch, or combined a deathspinners/catapult with a fusion gun ect.
That might be the intent, but seems a bit weird.
4) if a unit that has "always hits on a X+ regardless of modifiers" shoots at a unit with "Is only hit on a Y+ regardless of modifiers", which takes rule takes precedent?

>> No.53699152

>>53698790
I think it was determined the conscripts are more efficient in most cases.

>> No.53699156

>>53699124
>> caring that much

>> No.53699164

>>53699044
>>53699016
>>53698982
They can't be that good, they're only one point of weapon skill better than a Guardsman which is trained for a few months which is the same as modern non-conscriptes soldiers.

I see it like this: WS2 has no training, WS3 has basic training, WS4 is entry-level martial arts and WS5 is advanced martial arts.

>> No.53699166

>>53699048
if you know theyre retard points why are you using them

>> No.53699172

>>53699048
>99 power level

>> No.53699180

>>53698936
>Primaris Marines use mkIV Maximus style helmet
No they don't.

>> No.53699182

>>53698798
The original comeback King

You can lay him low for multiple whole editions..6th and 7th were metaphors for the icy ravine he twice stumbled into

Motherfucker was just licking his wounds and waiting in the shadows the whole time

>> No.53699186

>>53698798
Hemlock Wraithfighter.
It's gun now autohits. So it's wound track basically does nothing.
It can give conceal buff to all units within 3 inches of it's base. Also takes it up to -2 to hit.
-1 leadership aura is a lot useful.

>> No.53699189

>>53699156
>caring so little about playing a relatively fair game that you're not willing to do some simple addition

>> No.53699197

>>53699129
>>53699124
>>53699114
>>53699097
>>53699092
>>53699089
>>53699071
>tfw you just want to have a quick game with your m8 and learn the rules of 8th but instead you get made fun of for using power levels on a website dedicated to indonesian stop motion

>> No.53699198

>>53699093
>gives retarded nonsensical answer
>w-why are y-you calling me out pls stop
Your tears are absolutely delicious.

>> No.53699201

>>53699164
Only autists don't understand that the fluff is more in depth and the WS/BS mechanics are watered down and codified for efficient gameplay.

>> No.53699202

>>53699164
Eldar aspects have the same WS and they spend their immortal lives doing only one thing.

>> No.53699207

>>53699097
>i play 40k the way I play call of duty i dont have time i died ok start over shoot shoot died start over I DONT HAVE TIME GIVE ME MORE MOUNTAIN DEW DONT COME IN MY ROOM MOM

>> No.53699213

>>53699197

Your list is fine, have fun

>> No.53699224

>>53699071
>>53699092
>>53699114
>>53699166

Good sport fellow elegan/t g/entlemen! Power levels are for the unenlightened minds too afraid of the many intricate numbers involved with points. Us real gamers make sure every point is accounted for every time! I bet they would even met their opponent play a 1000pt game with 1001 points! Ha! The barbarians!

>> No.53699225

>>53699189
That's right I don't care. I just like putting miniatures down and playing. You really took your moms advice to be fair to heart.

>> No.53699226

>>53699124
power levels do plenty to give fairness in the type of games you'd use powerlevels to put together.

And don't lie, you don't finish tinkering with points in 10 minutes. You spend 20 minutes getting the first bit done, then an hour making sure you used up the last 100 points exactly how you wanted.

>> No.53699228

>>53699164
No.

Consider that Strength 3 represents both weedy 14-year old conscripts and Ahnold tier Catachan muscles that can break the first guys entire body like a twig.

The system doesn't have the granularity to represent fluff perfectly.

>> No.53699229

Last thread someone talked about a guard vs necron game. They mentioned Bullgryn and rough riders so I wanted to see them in action. Anyone got a link to that game?

>> No.53699230

>>53699201
Then why don't they just make the game reflect the fluff?
>because they would only sell 10 space marines per person if they did
oh

>> No.53699231

How are the Tempestus now? Will they work well if I add some Primaris with them?

>> No.53699232

>>53699197
Don't act like you didn't know what was going to happen.

>> No.53699246

>>53699027
>and time consuming
What part about them spending every waking moment of their lives in combat or prepping to be in combat do you not understand?

The Imperial Fists regularly hold the "Feast of Blades" a tournament between chapters to see who has the best cc combatant. Combat blades, chainswoards, power swords, power mauls, power axes, lightning claws, thunder hammers, dueling blades, etc. You don't have that sort of extensive arsenal and go "yea we don't think cc is that important a skill set".

>> No.53699247

If you like Astartes fluff how can you stand to play them on the table? They get murdered like little bitch boys in comparison to the one man armies they are in the lore.

>> No.53699248

>>53699201
>everyone who disagrees with me is autistic!
Never stop posting.

>> No.53699250

Are there any staples for Chaos Daemons and CSM in 8th? Plague Drones and Plaguebearers have done well for me so far but I haven't tried out CSM yet.

>> No.53699251

>>53698798

Troop choices across the board

Special mention to scions who went from unplayable kirby codex to legitimate and fun space SAS

>> No.53699252

>>53699197
dude you can play however you want, but this is like walking into a different country and asking everyone to speak your language

we don't use power levels, you shouldn't expect us to give you advice about them, because we don't understand them, because we don't want to.

>> No.53699253

>>53699197
If you just want a quick game to learn the rules then why are you posting the list here for feedback? Why do you think we care? If you're posting a list here it's implied you're looking for actual competitive analysis (not that you're going to get it because /tg/ is full of retards who are bad at games)

>> No.53699257

>>53699100
What's your plan in case of tanks? Not sure if a few meltas and Power mauls really are enough. But it's only 1000pts and vehicles cost more so I guess it can do...
Otherwise, lots of bodies, a few killy units. I like the list. Only thing I'm not sure about is the jump pack on the Sorceror but if you have the points to spare...

>> No.53699259

>>53699207
God you people get butt hurt when someone doesn't do things how you want. They made PL for people that play casually.

>> No.53699263

>>53699198
what army are you excited to play in 8th cheetah-chan?

>> No.53699264

>>53699228
But Catachans are merely peak human. Marines are superhuman. It makes sense.

>> No.53699267

>>53699202
>Eldar aspects have the same WS and they spend their immortal lives doing only one thing.
no, only the exarchs are stuck on the path of war.
aspect warriors take off their masks when not in training, and will in time join other paths.

>> No.53699268

>>53698965
Looks the same, just with an additional armor plate over the fuck huge Vader grill.

>> No.53699271

>>53699226
Power Levels have been mathematically proven to be entirely unbalanced, by as much as +/-20% compared to equivalent points.

>> No.53699274

>>53699224
>putting effort into excusing being this fucking lazy

>> No.53699281

>>53699248
>he doesn't know there's an entire universe of books, games, comics, and short stories behind this tabletop miniature game


You don't seriously play this game solely for the game mechanics and dice rolls do you?

Do you?

>> No.53699282

>>53698876
I like it, gets away from the imperial stormtrooper look

>> No.53699284

>>53699225
So why don't you just buy green plastic army men and yell pew pew at each other for a couple hours if you don't give a shit?

>> No.53699288

>>53699264
Right but my point is that there's a huge gap just between two different units that are both Strength 3 in terms of fluff.

That means a mere Weapon Skill 3 can also have a massive gap from "had a few weeks of training" to "can kick the ass of every person you know simultaneously", and WS 4 is a big jump up from there.

>> No.53699294

>>53698876
Beakies have always looked fucking stupid. I honestly don't know what you faggots like about them.

>> No.53699296

>>53699253
>why are you posting your power points list here for feedback?
have you not seen the shitshow it started?

>> No.53699297

>>53699225
you could just play with rocks in the garden then

>> No.53699300

Where is everyone getting rules from? None of the megas in the op seem to have 8e shit.

I've been wanting to get into the game but I wanted to look over the rules we've seen so far too instead of just going off 7e books.

>> No.53699303

>>53699271
>if pushed to extreme within 20% of the points of the other
>so likely within 10% of the other
>points are a perfect representation of balance
seems fine for a quick games or trying out weird ideas.

no ones suggesting it's going to be tournament level balance. That wasn't the point.

>> No.53699306

>>53699201
You can make "efficient gameplay" and also make the marines suitably powerful. That's what points are for.

>> No.53699308

>>53699226
>power levels do plenty to give fairness in the type of games you'd use powerlevels to put together
they are literally WAACfag bait
>And don't lie, you don't finish tinkering with points in 10 minutes. You spend 20 minutes getting the first bit done, then an hour making sure you used up the last 100 points exactly how you wanted.
Anon, does it really take you an hour and 20 minutes to do some addition?
Also, list building software.

>> No.53699311

>>53699246
I never sais it wasn't important. I said it wasn't AS important as their other skills, because quite frankly you don't need to be a samurai to outfight an ork boy, specially when you're a power-armored superhuman with steel bones whose sword is also a monomolecular chainsaw.

>> No.53699314

>>53699300
What do you want to see, I'll post it.

>> No.53699315

>>53699231

>how are tempestus?

Legitimately good and competitive

>how are primaris allied in?

Feel free to add in a hellblaster squad or two, pure tempestus have literally zero heavy support choices. Primaris have no frills long range shooting which compliments the short ranged blinged out scions shooting

>> No.53699317

>>53699224
ah seems we have a plebbiter in our ranks

>> No.53699325

>>53699226
>plenty to give fairness
You can write a list that's 2000 points or 3000 with the same amount of power. And those other symptoms are just because you are an autist and bad at math

>> No.53699327

>>53699224
>he's so shitty at math he has to strawman THIS HARD while gingerly rubbing his devastated anus that everyone else won't oblige him with retard points

>> No.53699331

>>53699303
It's a good mechanic to use with points too.

Want a game / tourney without knights or whatever? Say 2k points, max power 20

>> No.53699334

>>53699303
except for dozens of stores planning power-level tournaments

>> No.53699336

>>53699284
Because I like 40k. I just don't cry like a bitch about fair and balanced. You are over simplifying what I said. I must have really hit a nerve, not playing with points.

>> No.53699337

>>53699231

Scions and Taurox Primes are the most points efficient IG units (conscripts aside). They would be pretty good even if they didn't have deep strike.

>> No.53699342

>>53699097
Anon, listen, the WHOLE POINT of power levels is to give the guys who dont have a list a system to VAGUELY gauge how powerful their army is at a glance.

You dont build towards a limit like points, that is not what it is there for. Trying to use it as a points limit will make for extremely unbalanced games.

>> No.53699351

>>53699331
That's a good point. Using both in combination is patrician.

2k points, no more than 20 power level on any one unit, or more than 25 power level on any single battlefield role except troops.

>> No.53699354

>>53699263
Already having a blast with my World Eaters! Can't wait for the codex to come out so I can get those relics on my Juggerlord.

>>53699281
>everyone who disagrees with me is unaware that fluff exists!
top kek

>> No.53699355

>>53699342
I'm okay with that.

>> No.53699357

powerlevel fag here
currently translating that list into points in hopes of sealing the autism that has been released

>> No.53699358

What buy would go well with my new Plague Marines?

Two chaos rhinos?

>> No.53699360

>>53699048
>power level
>mfw
what is this in points

>> No.53699363

>>53699336
Nah man, I'm just genuinely not understanding why you would ever voluntarily opt to introduce imbalance into your games just to save a couple fucking minutes of napkin math, or why you would spend the time and money required to get into this hobby if you "don't give a shit."

>> No.53699364

>>53699294
This, they just look goofy. Maybe they looked cool 30 years ago

>> No.53699371

>>53699257

I'm not TOO worried about vehicles because the more vehicles there are, the fewer soft targets there are for the termies, which means they'll get to go after whatever. Sadly, they'll only strip about 3 wounds from shooting a rhino and a little less in melee. If it is a tank heavy list then the sorc will probably buff the brute instead and the raptors will pick off what's left.

The jump pack on the sorcerer let's him Deepstrike with the terminators while giving him the movement to keep up with Warptime or to reposition himself.

>> No.53699372

>>53699308
it's not the addition.
You know that. It's the "hmm... I'm 10 points short of getting this... can I take a couple less option and..." shit.

No, if you think the opponent is going to be doing WAAC bullshit, don't use power. Use power when you want to throw together a game for fun that afternoon, or doing a weird scenario.
If you don't want to do that, that's fine. you don't have to use them.
If you and your friends can't play without trying to squeeze out every sort of advantage in your lists, then power isn't for you. That's fine. don't use it.

There are people out there who just want to know their armies are fairly close in terms of what's in them, then have fun. It's okay if you aren't one of them.

>> No.53699374

>>53699334
You mean GW stores trying to test out if they can get people to fall for the new meme?

ITC and all the tourneys that follow their standards already have a system set-up using matched play points, number of detachments, etc.

>> No.53699375

>>53699354
>>53699248
>>53699198

>> No.53699377

>>53699314
Marines, Deathwatch, and/or Grey Knights.

Though I'm mostly interested in Deathwatch or Salamanders Marines, since a friend already has Grey Knights and I want an army that isn't already in my friend group.

>> No.53699379

>>53699363

It's dumb because it's so easy to exploit. You basically just grab shit with expensive wargear.

>> No.53699400

>>53699372
You're supposed to have the list built BEFORE you go in looking for a game, you scrub. And most people have fun juggling the numbers trying to see what they can fit in.

>> No.53699404

How good are we thinking Devilfish are gonna be this edition? I'm excited to run my strike teams in 8th. Tell me nice things about Tau, /tg/

>> No.53699406

>>53699377

>> No.53699408

>>53699288
But the gap is not that big. Peak/bodybuilder human is still weaker than your average bear, it's all about relaivity. The same way you could be a very experienced street fighter and will still lose to an amateur martial artist.

They are all big gaps that still work with my definition without going into nonsense territory.

>> No.53699409

>>53699354
>he doesn't deny not knowing the fluff exists
Holy shit you really do play the game for the mechanics. That is literally autism.

>> No.53699414

>>53698799
are you dabbing your brush tip into recesses or anything like that? like using your brush in a stabbing motion to get into crevices? thats how mine ended up like that

>> No.53699415

>>53699363
Because my friends and I don't give a shit. We do not play competitively.

>> No.53699418

>>53699311
>boy

>> No.53699421

>>53699406

>> No.53699424

>>53698798
Da 'Naut

>> No.53699425

>>53699337

Scions in Valkyries are so good they'll see play DESPITE having deep strike

Scions with tauroxes might still end up deep striking since the taurox is worth it even empty

>> No.53699428

I've done 4 power level 70 games thus far. It was easy and fun. My group is going to start trying out regular points next week.

Power Levels are interesting, they take into account a maxed out squad so it's the equivalent of picking a squad and maxing out the points on them before selecting another. It skews it towards fewer bodies but more gear. Where as in normal matched points you wouldn't always sink every possible point into each unit you had. That would allow you to fill out bodies and get more units.

Power levels are perfect for casual play; quick and easy. Then there's a reason matched still uses regular points; you don't want to fill out your limit by sinking every point into each choice. That allows for more optimization in a list to make it more competetive.

>> No.53699431

>>53699404
They're good. Transports with Fly are extremely useful because they can't be tarpitted or trapped in combat easily. Something like a Land Raider that gets charged by one gaunt will lose a full turn of shooting, and if it gets surrounded it's utterly fucked and the unit inside will auto-die if it gets popped.

>> No.53699432

Anyone who doesn't strive to play optimally is an unenlightened fool. I always laugh at those people when they bring their "fun" suboptimal lists and I ruthlessly destroy them with my finely crafted up-to-meta list.
I don't care about "fluff", only victory.

>> No.53699433

>>53699315
How would fare a tempestus + russes list?

>> No.53699437

>>53699421

>> No.53699444

>>53699400
"hey I've got the day off, want to get a game in", "sure omw".
"Hey, I'm at the store with 100pts of power if anyone wants to show up for a game".
Have a the second and forth saturday be the warhammer game at the store, just show up see who's around for a game.
Finish early, want to try out another idea after.

>And most people have fun juggling the numbers trying to see what they can fit in.
yep, and that's fun for that type of game. Which is why there is also a points system.

>> No.53699451

>>53699433
Taurox Primes are better than Russes.
>>53699437

>> No.53699455

>>53699409
>everyone who disagrees with me only plays the game for the mechanics!
Top kek anon, when will this madness end?

>> No.53699462

>>53699451

>> No.53699477

>>53699415
>spending hundreds to thousands of dollars on expensive miniatures, paints, brushes, and hobby tools
>spending hours painstakingly assembling, painting, converting, maybe even sculpting your miniatures
>lol I don't give a shit
Do you see why I'm having trouble believing that? There are much cheaper and less involved hobbies out there if you just want to have some quick, cheap, imbalanced, no-skill-required fun with your friends.

>> No.53699479

>>53699433

Russes are okay if you can see them as armored bunkers with long range guns that never move unless they have to

An ordinary battle cannon Russ with a lascannon and two heavy bolters is a good all targets piece and with all your scions up the field, it should be able to stay in your deployment zone putting decent damage on anything your opponent brings

Russ punishers are probably the best turret but battlecannons are fine if that's what you have

>> No.53699484

>>53699431
there are a few rules mistakes there.
Fly or no fly, you can withdraw from combat. Fly just lets you shoot after. Disembarking is before movement in all cases.
You can disembark from a transport in combat, so long as you fit within 3" of the transport and 1" from the enemy.

It's 1/6 chance of a mortal wound, not autodeath.

>> No.53699485

>>53699451
I had a dcent scions force from 6th, several squards and former HQs, plus 6 taurox (6 for logic configuration).
Still, I was wondering if one could vary a bit with russes. I like the model.

>> No.53699493

>>53699224

>> No.53699495

>>53699284
Why don't you? if the rules are so utmost in importance, you can save crazy amounts of cash buying army men and gluing them on 32 mm bases. and play the same system. We all got into this game because of the pretty minis or the desire to command an awesome army of toys anon... any other reason is a lie

>> No.53699497

>>53699451
>Taurox Primes are better than Russes
Do they cost more points? That seems weird.

>> No.53699500

>>53699444
Anon, do your lists get burned every time you're done playing with them? You own specific painted models with specific wargear, is it that hard to have two or three lists made in an afternoon that you then use for the next several years with only slight tweaking as you buy new stuff, and just bring with you to pick up games? Holy christ.

You guys act like you have fucking Alzheimer's and every time there's an unplanned game you have to rediscover your entire model collection and figure out what everything costs despite the fact that you would have already made lists for previous games and should have been able to memorize half the points costs already.

>> No.53699502

>>53698816
Gun drones

>> No.53699507

>>53699495
Easy, both are important to me.

>> No.53699511

>>53699485

It's perfectly doable and you won't be gimping yourself all that hard

>> No.53699513

>>53699300
Literally the first one.

>> No.53699519

>>53699224
>so assblasted he made an entire strawman out of his projected insecurities
roflmao

>> No.53699530

>>53699479
>that never move unless they have to
you do know that they have a special rule that the main gun doesn't get the -1 to hit.
I mean, it makes the heavy bolters a bit worse, but it's a bit. Moving up to sit on an objective, or getting cover could easily be worth that.

Other than that I mostly agree.

>> No.53699531

>>53699013
I can kinda agree with >>53698876 about the helmets not being perfect but I think they overall look great. I just wish GW would have just said these were the new marine sculpts instead of making a whole new character and lore for them but it's whatever.

>> No.53699536

>>53699477
He wouldn't do all that if he didn't enjoy doing it , to him (and probably the games designers ) the gaming is the icing on the cake

>> No.53699538

>>53699497
Tauroxes cost less points but put out roughly the same amount of damage as a Punisher, and the Punisher is the best choice of Russ in this edition, therefore...

>> No.53699545

>>53699500
Yeah honestly...not many people have infantry fully magnetized so they can 100% adapt to any list at any moment. Fuck most people just have a few variations of a list at best. Sure, if you've got 4k of marines and want to always tailor a list...well that might be a problem.

Im not 100% on it with this edition, but I could wing what my points of armies woudl be before and be only 10~50 off.

>> No.53699546

>>53699484
>there are a few rules mistakes there.
No there aren't.

>Fly or no fly, you can withdraw from combat.
Not if you're surrounded. You can't move through enemy models. Fly ignores that restriction and can move over enemy models.

>You can disembark from a transport in combat, so long as you fit within 3" of the transport and 1" from the enemy.
Which you won't be able to do if you're surrounded.

>It's 1/6 chance of a mortal wound, not autodeath.
No, you even got that wrong. It's a model is slain on a 1, not suffers a mortal wound. But more importantly, that never comes up, because if a transport is destroyed, the unit inside has to disembark before removing the transport, and again, if you're fucking surrounded, there's no room to place those models, so they all die automatically.

Read the fucking rules, especially before you make some dumbass comment about shit being wrong when you are the one who is wrong.

>> No.53699550

>>53699360
>>53699172
>>53699166
>>53699114
>>53699092
>>53699089
>>53699071
>>53699048
okay so its all added up, its 2150, i guess ill drop the overlord and shave some points and just make it a solid 2000, now we can all go back to shitting on 8ths balance using points

>> No.53699556

>>53698798

Well, Orkanauts are better.

Though this leaves me wondering is putting more than one of them on the table cheese now.

Unfortunately the Stompa may be worse now, but the Kustom Stompa rules have been confirmed for Forgeworld so I can't really complain.

>> No.53699562

>>53699530

Sure it's not a terrible idea but with that loadout you can already hit your opponents table edge, suffice to say with the changes to LOS on vehicles you don't exactly Need to move very much

>> No.53699567

>>53699477
Well your autistic ass will just had to scratch your head and wonder. People get joy from different areas of the 40k game.

>> No.53699572

>>53699550
I didn't expect power levels to actually be this imbalanced compared to points... holy crap people actually use these?

>> No.53699575

>>53699497

Taurox Primes are like 98 points with wargear. They're ultra efficient against basically everything. AFAIK they can only carry Scions which you probably won't put in them but it doesn't matter, they're great even if they transport nothing.

>> No.53699580

>>53699400
Eeeh I wouldn't exactly call juggling numbers fun.
It's to listbuilding what mold-line cleanup is to modelling, a chore neccesary for a good result.

>> No.53699590

>>53699556
>Gork, Mork
>(G)Ork, (M)Ork
>Ork
How come I never noticed this before

>> No.53699599

>>53699590
i love you anon

>> No.53699602

>>53699567
>i am a cuck who enjoys paying full price for half the package: The post
How's your wife's son faring?

>> No.53699608

>>53699500
do you ever play without worrying that your army is exactly as strong as your opponents, or that scenario is perfectly fair.
Do you ever want to try something completely new and different. Do you get ever get board with tweaked lists. Do you ever make a list around an idea other than 'be the most powerful force possible'.

If you don't, okay, don't use power. You don't have to.

>> No.53699619

>>53699572
You're not even supposed to use them for balanced games. You're supposed to use them for games where you put whatever you want on the table and the opponent puts whatever they want on the table and then you add your power levels up, and then the guy who has LOWER power level gets some handicap bonuses like extra command point re-rolls to make up for it, and tries to hold out heroically against overwhelming odds.

If you're trying to get the power levels to match up to each other, you're already doing it wrong and at that point should just be using points.

>> No.53699623

>>53699567
>People get joy from different areas of the 40k game.
You're making it sound so much more noble than it actually is.
You're throwing any chance at balance out the window to save yourself a couple minutes of math, you dumb lazy fucking faggot.

>> No.53699625

>>53699550
>100 PL is about 2000 pts
>comes out to 2150
not too bad if you're just doing a casual quick game where winning and loosing is kinda a secondary worry
obviously a tourney would be people just abusing it as much as possible

>> No.53699628

>>53699580
I enjoy juggling numbers. But then again I've got a degree in this kind of shit.

>> No.53699629

>>53699602
You are really going to be this childish because other people use power levels?

>> No.53699634

>>53699562
that's why I said cover and objectives, not getting into range.
Also, do people not put out LOS blocking terrain? is this not a thing.

>> No.53699639

>>53699575
I am honestly wondering why Taurox are so cheap, it's kind of stunning.

>> No.53699641

>>53699306
ok
guardsmen are now WS3 at 5ppm
marines are WS7 at 30ppm
happy?

>> No.53699642

>>53699608
I can see power points being the new excuse for waacfags bringing broken armies into casual games.

>> No.53699645

>>53699572

I was originally against power levels, but I've unironically had a lot of fun using power levels. I honestly think the only people shitting on them are the people who've never played with them and never will anyway. Hell, most of the people probably never play anyway because this is tg.

>> No.53699649

>>53699619
like age of sigmar?

>> No.53699655

When are the list builders being updated so we can put the fucking power level meme to bed?

>> No.53699659

>>53699623
Don't care about balance. Cry harder. I just don't care. You can't make me.

>> No.53699668

>>53699608
>Do you ever want to try something completely new and different. Do you get ever get board with tweaked lists. Do you ever make a list around an idea other than 'be the most powerful force possible'.
Uh, yeah. You can do all of those things with points. In fact up until 8th edition you always did because the game didn't have power levels. Are you just fucking completely retarded?

>> No.53699670

>>53699629
>gets btfo
>y-your a child!
Kek cuck, your tears are delicious.

>> No.53699673

>>53699357
Don't. Fuck em. power is fun and fine. it's led to several great games for me and mine. Cheers

>> No.53699675

>Drones have protocols to throw off their bodies without any regard for their existence to save t'au lives
>when they do so they'll flee the battle after
Why the fuck aren't drones fearless/have better ld?

>> No.53699676

>>53699645
But they're so easy to abuse... I've built two different 200PL lists, and one was about 600 points more than the other.

There's a fun game and then theres "I get 8 Queens and 8 Knights and you just get 16 Pawns".

>> No.53699684

>>53699511
>>53699479
Thanks!

What's the best configuration for each Russ? Is always better to buy sponson now that the vehicles are less on-shottable?
I was thinking:

Battle Tank - Battle cannon, Laser, no idea on sponsons (Multi-Meltas?)
Demolisher - Demolisher cannon, Laser, Plasma? Or better flamers? Can you overwatch with vehicles?
Punisher - Punisher cannon, bolters everywhere (actually 3)
Vanquisher - Vanquisher C, Lascannon, Multi-Meltas
Executioner - Plasma everywhere, lascannon
Eradicator - Nova cannon and 3 flamers, specific for city scenario, fuck your cover
Extarminator: 3 bolters: dunno what to do with this one, was good but heavily nerfed
Annihilator (FW) - Laser, 2 MM
Conqueror (FW) No Idea. Also, the existence of this one makes clear who wrote large blasts as a simple d6 is a retard. 2d6 drop lower would have been enough.
They designed FW in a corner, I think.

>> No.53699687

>>53699224
>what did he mean by this?
at least your have your fedora, it suits you very very well anon.

>> No.53699693

>>53699659
>t. taufag

>> No.53699708

>>53699655
Both are in progress.
BS 8th module is in beta but has all armies
Babbys first picture book has like half the forces.

>> No.53699713

>>53699673
Power is fine if people have fun with it, but they shouldn't be posting "power level" lists here for feedback because that's completely devoid of the fucking point of power levels.

If they want feedback, it means they want something competitive, which means they should be using points. It's that simple.

People aren't freaking out that someone had the audacity to use power levels, they're just saying don't post that shit here for listbuilding advice because that's not what power levels are for and it's just wasting everyone's time.

>> No.53699714

>>53699641
but what is that in power level?

>> No.53699716

>>53698798
This beautiful bastard right here

I really enjoyed running him alongside a Sunshark Bomber in my game yesterday.

>> No.53699721

>>53699642
assholes will always be assholes.
Assholes trying to abuse a systems is not a very solid critique of that system, because of course they did.

Assholes are more able to abuse this system, so don't use it when playing with assholes.

>> No.53699722

>>53699684
The best configuration for a Leman Russ is Punisher period. In the majority of cases, a Punisher is simply superior thanks to the dumbed down toughness/wounding system. The sheer number of shots it reliably fires makes it mathematically a better choice ~8 times out of 10.

If you're just wanting to play with your models, though, either double down on high-damage weapons with long range, or take as many bullets per turn as you can. Any in-between is just a waste of points.

>> No.53699731

>>53699659
>you can't make me nyah nyah
Holy shit you know you have to be at least 18 to post here, right?
Power levels literally confirmed for children

>> No.53699740

>>53699675

They have "self-preservation protocols," which I assume just means they have AI programmed or simply smart enough to realize it'd rather not be killed.

Maybe it's a quirk of their simple machine intelligence, or maybe it's hard-coded (or maybe they used a companion animal as a base model for the computer brain), but for whatever reason they sometimes would rather not die.

>> No.53699741

>>53699676
It's really not much different to 7e where you could build lists with equal points and inequal balance.

>> No.53699746

>>53699655
What is that image from?

It reminds me of that one, spider man I think it was, comic that ripped some tau.

>> No.53699748

>>53699628
And I enjoy space efficiency and was trained for that.
Sadly packing models is a infinitely small part of the hobby.

>> No.53699751

>>53699673
>>53699713

Power level lists is bait for the ignorant who still don't know the difference between 'competitive' points and 'fun' power levels.

>> No.53699754

Post FW model predictions

Cerastus Knight Atrapos
Power 30

14” 3+ 3+ 8 8 28 4 9 3+

14-7W 8” move
6-1W 4” move

Grav Singularity Cannon
36” D6 S8 AP-4 D6 Roll 2d6, pick the highest for damage

Before shooting roll a d6. On a 1 it suffers a mortal wound and fires normally, on a 6 it does d6 mortal wounds for damage instead of regular wounds. If a model is wounded but not slain on a 6 it takes d6 further mortal wounds.

Beam
8” d6 S12 AP-4 D6 damage, min of 3

Melee
S12 AP-4 D6 damage, min of 3, reroll failed wounds against monsters and vehicles.

Blessed auto sim, on a 6 the wound is ignored

ionic flare shield, -1 to wound rolls made against the knight

macro extinction protocols, reroll to hits against titanic models.

>> No.53699755

>>53699675
They aren't fleeing, they're suffering from malfunctions. Battleshock represents ALL the shit that can go wrong in battle.

>> No.53699758

>>53699713
Then why is everyone attacking people for saying they like Power levels?

>> No.53699759

Guys, Just picked up a shiny new grey plastic kit. My naut, Morka or Gorka?

>> No.53699760

Anyone ever run test games by yourself? Saves time going to the game store or bothering friends.

>> No.53699762

>>53699599
thanks?
y-you too?

>> No.53699769

>>53698798
I'm pretty happy with the Lord of Skulls being a little over 150 pts cheaper.

>> No.53699770

>>53699758

Fear of the new and unknown. Also false-flagging and shitposting.

>> No.53699783

>>53699713
aye, that seems fair. Just seemed like they were all pilling on. because he mentioned power is all. Can't stand that.

>> No.53699785

>>53699770
>Fear of the new and unknown
Actually, it's distaste for the objectively shit

>> No.53699790

>>53699760
nah, I do sometimes math-hammer stuff on paper since I usually know what my opponents'll bring

>> No.53699792

What's the best place for a tattoo like pic related?

>> No.53699794

>>53699759
Gork. The Mork is gonna explode more from its plasma.

>> No.53699795

>>53699713
>People aren't freaking out that someone had the audacity to use power levels,
no people are most certainly doing that.

The rest is true, but people are flipping their shit over the idea that power level is a thing and people use it.

>> No.53699796

Rate my quick test 1k list.
>POWER LEVEL: 56
>Spearhead Detachment
>Primaris Lieutenant
>Primaris Hellblasters
>Primaris Hellblasters
>Whirlwind
>Fortification Network
>Imperial Bunker with Quad Cannon
>Imperial Bunker
>2 Vengeance Weapon Batteries

>>53699655
Never ever going to happen, you're going to have to adapt.

>> No.53699801

>>53699785

If that was the case, they wouldn't be in a 40k thread, or on 4chan for that matter.

>> No.53699802

>>53699770
>fearing the unknown and freaking out about false flags
is /tg/ america?

>> No.53699808

>>53699785
Are you always this much of a faggot? Like, at home? at work? because Holy Shit!

>> No.53699810

>>53699755
>poxwalkers never malfunction
I mean fuck! We finally broke the characteristic value of 10. They could have made some horde stuff like ld15 or something. Really lazy job.

>> No.53699811

>>53699197
Because for 40k fa/tg/uys powerlevels are basically the equivalent of dieting.

>> No.53699815

>>53699792
you should know that Anon :^)

>> No.53699817

HE HE HE HE HE HE
ZEKE ZEKE ZEKE

>> No.53699818

Does anyone else think Tau should be removed from the game? Stupid anime gundam robot lawful good aliens don't belong in 40k.

>> No.53699820

>>53699676

I thought the same thing, but guess what though? It doesn't really matter. Play it out and see what happens.

>> No.53699822

>>53699794

It's shooting is also worse this time around isn't it?

I struggle to see it hitting anything most of the time with Blasts a thing of the past.

>> No.53699829

>>53699796
that made me nauseous
heres your (you) though

>> No.53699830

>>53699794
but it also get's that spiffy KFF. But yeah mortal wounding itself sucks
So it's pretty much attacks vs plasma that can fuck you over?

>> No.53699836

>>53699794
but you don't HAVE to supercharge it

>> No.53699838

>>53699758
Shitposting.
Power levels are fine but they are a fun side attraction that isn't meant to be taken seriously.
Like an aroma therapy stand at a medical convention.

>> No.53699844

>>53699815
I think what you mean...

Just saying that it's a pre-heresy symbol, so....

>> No.53699845

>>53699722
Fine, but there are some borderline cases.
I asked about the flamers, as an example, because IMHO they suit a tank that has a short range and is likely to be assaulted.

Also, I am not sure if Plasma cannon can suit anything or is just better to go MM on any non-bolter sponson.

The punisher model I have, I was thinking about Pask, use another commander for the Vanquisher, use them to buff an Executioner and an Annihilator, and from there I am lost.

>> No.53699848

>>53699818
do you know where you are? who do you think you're b8'ing? theres no tau players here, we ran them off long ago

>> No.53699849

>>53699818
Kill yourself cock gobbler

>> No.53699854

>>53699818
you actually take the setting seriously?

Do you not get the point that while people in the setting take it seriously, them doing so is part of the joke.
It's an absurd setting with wildly different aspects and tone. But everyone in it buys into it all the time.
That's what makes it great.

>> No.53699856

>>53699817
.... how do you know my name?

>> No.53699857

>>53699796
3

>> No.53699861

>>53699792
Ass, tit, or over where your pubes used to be.

>> No.53699863

>>53699455
>doubling down on autism
>had to learn about the 40k universe in a 40k thread despite already playing 40k

>> No.53699865

who here is hyped to read the new tactica articles for 8th on 1d4chan? i hear this time they might actually try and play with the unit before doing the write up!

>> No.53699870

>>53699818
>but muh muh muh m-muh
m-muh muh muh!

>> No.53699875

>>53699829
made me nauseated. Nauseous is when you make other people feel nauseated.

>> No.53699883

>>53699865
2/10
Not worth the capcha.

>> No.53699885

>>53699865
>hyped to read
>1d4chan

Never ever

>> No.53699893

>>53699865
I'll burn it down and rewrite it all myself just get that shithole back to modern if I have to.

>> No.53699894

>>53699865
kek
truth be told, some of the fantasy articles were pretty useful to me, though

>> No.53699899

>>53699818

They're in and we're stuck with them. At least they've made them a good deal less lawful good and a bit more lawful neutral and grey-morality.

Best thing they could do is let Tau expand to more places in the galaxy so they can get their shit kicked in properly. Have a Sept world eaten by bugs, ravaged by ancient, evil aliens, or lost in a warp storm with subsequent records expunged by the Ethereals.

It actually makes a little sense why nothing can penetrate that tight ball of an Empire they have going because they can bring their full might to bear in a short time given their density, but it also means they've got huge plot armor. Let them get their asses kicked a whole lot means lightening up their inner sphere's defenses or giving them more reach so they can exceed their grasp and get fucked over.

>> No.53699902

>>53699863
>he still thinks everyone who disagrees with him hasn't read the fluff because he says so
My sides

>> No.53699904

>>53699875
thanks for reminding me why I'm a bio major and not an english major
other than liking money and respect that is

>> No.53699914

What Chaos heavy support would you support?

Defiler, Vindicator, Predator, Land Raider or Forgefiend?

>> No.53699915

>>53699830
The KFF works if your entire unit is in the 9 inch range. The more dakka helps with its lack of super shots.

>>53699836
Ork plasma is always super charged, we don't turn it down, we amp it up!

>> No.53699923

>>53699894
no-one will admit that if they started in the last few years they spent lots of time reading 1d4 in their early days before realizing the strategies were shit
>totally not projecting

>> No.53699964

If a model has the FLY keyword, does it mean i can place it above other models in the same space? Like how would that work with big models like Carnifexes? I'm pretty sure the base would slide off.

>> No.53699970

>>53699836
Youz is talkin git
Gunz aint spose ta ave safetys deys supposed ta be unsafe.
Like trukks, da only brreaks dey ever see are when dey hit a beakie!

>> No.53699973

>>53699964
you can move over enemy models, but you still can't end your move within 1" of them

>> No.53699977

>>53699902
>he has to take the time to google pictures of animals to respond to me
>still hasn't comprehended what I wrote

>> No.53699981

>>53699964
Read the rules.

>> No.53699985

>>53698798
Baneblades

Okay, hear me out here. Yes, the main cannon has been weakened - but everything about it is so much stronger. All vehicles have gotten a lot more expensive so that's not a big deal.

The thing is, the Baneblade has 9 attacks at WS 5+. Give it 4 Heavy Flamers and the thing is an assault monstrosity because it can shoot, charge in, beat up a unit, and then next turn pull out and do the exact same thing all over again

>> No.53699987

who are the jews of the 41st millennium?
im thinking dark angels have the "shifty shilock" theme down while craftworlders have the zionist side

>> No.53699994

>>53699985
pretty sure bane blades have a rule that just let them shoot if there are enemies within 1"

>> No.53699996

>>53699071
>POWER LEVEL ISN'T BALANCED
>I PREFER THIS OTHER SYSTEM WHICH IS MADE BY THE SAME PEOPLE

Some things in power level are under costed
Some things in matched points are under costed
Some things in power level are over costed
Some things in matched points are over costed

The game literally doesn't change no matter which "balance" you use

>> No.53699997

>>53699985
>hitting on 5+
so it has 3 attacks basically

>> No.53700007

>>53698897
>Regardless, Alpha is almost always just FW stuff (and better for it). Z for everything else.

Are these guys on Aliexpress? Just the letter "Z" is hard to get a good lock on for search purposes

>> No.53700013

>>53699977
>implying i dont have an entire folder of cheetahs laughing at your retardation
>projecting his own search of shitty anime pics which takes longer to reply than i do
>b-but you d-don't understand!
Lmao

>> No.53700019

The current rules for 8e allow you to take noise marines in a World Eaters army

>> No.53700025

>>53699996
Well it comes down to the level of inaccuracy. Being off 1PL is a lot more than being off 5p.

>> No.53700036

>>53699994
>pretty sure bane blades have a rule that just let them shoot if there are enemies within 1"

You're right, so that's even better than my initial cursory glance!

>>53699997
>so it has 3 attacks basically

In addition to 4D6 auto-hitting Strength 5 AP -1 attacks as well as from its Baneblade Cannon and Demolisher Cannon. I think it's pretty fearsome, the adamantium tracks are just gravy imo

>> No.53700039

>>53699981
>go read X!
Not an argument faggot.

>> No.53700041

>>53700007
No.
Email only and don't ask for the email.
Thats rule one of counterfeint-club

>> No.53700042

>>53699923
Oh I don't use any of it anymore, but there were some handy pointers in there for when I was getting a new army etc

>> No.53700048

>>53699451
are Taurox Prime better than Hellhound and variants?

>> No.53700049

>>53700019
The current rules for 8e allow you to take sorcerers and rubric marines in a World Eaters army

>> No.53700050

>>53700025
it doesn't matter though 100 power level =/= 100 power level even in the same index

2000 Points =/= 2000 Points either

There always will be inbalanced shit in tabletop games

Instead of fighting over which imaginary points are better try painting some models

>> No.53700059

>>53700049
to be fair wasn't Ahriman in a world eaters war band for a while?

>> No.53700069

>/40kg/ is just shitposting, memes, and b8
>dakkadakka is just as autistic but they're not being ironic or self-aware about it
>/r/warhammer40k is pic related
is there nowhere I can have a genuine conversation about this fucking game?

>> No.53700073

How viable is this list for a fairly cut throat local meta?
https://webapplications-webroster.rhcloud.com/rc/web/printPreview.html?modeFilter=normal&showPowers=false

>> No.53700080

Are Lychguard still shit?

Do they have any use at all?

>> No.53700092

>>53700039
Excellently deduced, it's not a argument, nor was intended as such, it's an instruction

>> No.53700102

>>53700073
nobody is playing 7th edition anymore

nice fire angels though

>> No.53700109

>>53700069
What do you want to talk about?

>> No.53700126

>>53700080
Think they still got 3+ invul saves. And necrons always come back and the lord can allocate his wounds on them.

So very tough bodyguards.

>> No.53700127

>>53700092
Then fuck you cunt. Don't ever tell me what to do unless you want to get destroyed.

>> No.53700128

>>53700049
Don't world eaters have to have mark of khorne?

>> No.53700144

>>53700050
>it doesn't matter if things are off 0,5% instead of 5%
Maybe drink your paint water too next time. Swallow some greenstuff or something.

>> No.53700147

>>53700069
at your LGS with your friends
you do have those right anon?

>> No.53700150

>>53700013
>he missed it again
That reading comprehension problem is a bitch ain't it?

>> No.53700154

>>53700126
They got dropped to a 4++.

>> No.53700158

>>53700069
My god that post is cancer. Every now and then I need a reminder of why I don't go to reddit.

>> No.53700162

>>53700128
Yes, but that also means you can't use noise marines.

>> No.53700163

>>53700073
You can't link them.
They just turn up blank.

>> No.53700172

So are we back to the days of having to do all but one of every model in a units wounds before we can kill one?

>> No.53700175

>>53699754

Better question
FW models, which will be broken and which will be garbage?

>> No.53700177

>>53700049

So they're pulling a Crull from Winter Assault?

>> No.53700178

>>53700172
No

>> No.53700183

>>53700172
did you even read the rules?

>> No.53700184

>>53700172
No, you have to allocate to wounded models first.

>> No.53700196

>>53700080
better than last edition and also melee is better/10
played a couple games with them, not bad, like all necrons they do better in larger units

>> No.53700205

>>53700069
>>53700158

Reminds me of someone that writes fan fiction and unironically has ponies all over everything

>> No.53700208

>>53700183
Nope, I hate reading shitty scans >>53700184
Cool

>> No.53700217

>>53700154
Still, lychguard are probably the hardest units to kill in the game thanks to their return rollls.

>> No.53700222

>>53700069
I dont see you adding anything to the thread anon... Is there something you want to talk about?

>> No.53700230

>>53699987

I'm disappointed that you've been memed this hard but I'm also disappointed that you've failed to recognize the iconography, thematic, and aesthetic references to Jewish culture present in the Adeptus Mechanicus.

>> No.53700241

>>53700069
careful, theres so many people here from plebbit you get shat on for insulting it these days
but seriously that post, thats like the straw man of what these kinds of 40k players are

>> No.53700247

>>53700163
>>53700102
Oops, retrying

>> No.53700248

>>53700205
It's only fun when the ponies see that they have no chance of surviving before they are slaughtered by marines or Orks.

>> No.53700261

>>53700230
>jews= beep boops
im legit curious, i know little about the traditional culture of our reptilian overlords so i never picked up about their relation to the admec

>> No.53700276

>>53700217
Sure, but you have to invest in them pretty heavily as a squad of five isn't impossible to kill and they're not cheap.

>> No.53700284

>>53700175

Alright, thinking about it.
Broken, the new stuff that FW wants to push. Stuff ported over from 30k
Garbage, whatever they don't sell anymore cause who cares about stuff you cant sell

>> No.53700300

Who's going to join my protest at BAO in Julay?
Power levels are just as good and balanced as points and deserve to be useable in tournament play!
What's a few hundred points worth of upgrades here or there, it's just a game right?
Look for me outside waving a sign with this funny mem e posted on it lolz!

>> No.53700308

>>53700248
Not even then.
Playing hostage with barbie dolls is still playing with barbies, and edgy ponyfics are still ponyfics.

>> No.53700312

So are different marines still going to have their own codex like Blood Angels and Space Wolves etc or is it all being merged into a big Marines codex?

The Imperium Index 1 makes it seem like their would be only one Marines codex.

>> No.53700327

>>53700312
#ASK GW

>> No.53700328

>>53700300
who in the thread is this supposed to be targeting?
at least (you) them and don't be a coward
>t. someone who thinks PL has no place in competitive play

>> No.53700330

>>53700041
>No.
>Email only and don't ask for the email.
>Thats rule one of counterfeint-club

Nvm, found them thanks to leddit of all places. If it's that easy I'm kind of worried it's gonna get shut down lel

>> No.53700333

>>53700308
Is that like the fluffy threads people post on /b/?

>> No.53700364

>>53699134
I feel like "casting smite/offensive magic into combat" should not be allowed

>> No.53700384

>>53700364
Only shit when every squad can use it.

>> No.53700393

I think cheetah poster might be retarded.

>> No.53700402

>>53700393
No more than the ones continually feeding it attention.

>> No.53700408

>>53699985
This HAS to be one of those ideas that sound great on paper, but fall on its face if actually put into practice.

>> No.53700429

>>53699016
>only ~16.6% more accurate in combat than a fucking Guardsman.
learning curve in a nutshell

>> No.53700430

>>53700328
This. I play power levels and I see no reason to use them in an environment where balance is an issue. Power levels are good for in the garage with your buddies.

>> No.53700436

>>53699134
>if a unit that has "always hits on a X+ regardless of modifiers" shoots at a unit with "Is only hit on a Y+ regardless of modifiers", which takes rule takes precedent?
The player who's turn it is decides, it's in the rule book.

Want I want FAQed is
>chaos champion may swap pistol and bolter for...
>(combi weapons)... one of the following
So if he takes a combi-weapon he longer has a pistol?
Why?
This can't be intentional.

>> No.53700446

>>53700364
>no 'i don't like these rules' shit.
read the post.

>> No.53700448

Probably a retarded question, but do I have to use Citadel Paints if I want to enter my army into a GW tournament?

>> No.53700452

>>53700402
I'm pretty sure it is samefriending half the time

>> No.53700464

>>53700448
Is that really a rule?!

>> No.53700477

>>53700436
>it's in the rule book.
cool. Where?
Easy to miss things reading lots of new rules too.

>> No.53700480

>>53700448
>>53700464
It's not. The only thing they frown on is non GW models.

>> No.53700481

>>53700448
Yes, no

>> No.53700485

Not quite sure I see the point of Cataphractii terminators: They’re either mixed role or assault so the slower armour is a liability, Tartaros can fill all the same roles equipment-wise but better, and if you want them just for the 4++ invulnerable, vanilla assault terminators do it better with a 3++ and an extra inch of move.

>> No.53700487

>>53700448
It's a customary for them to take random models from your army and burn them to analyze the paint residue for off-company paints. Standard stuff.

>> No.53700490

>>53700448
Yes. They will scrape random models for GW paint before letting you play. Just make sure all your top layers are GW and you'll be fine.

>> No.53700497

>>53700430
Just gotta make sure war gear doesn't change on the fly

>> No.53700498

>>53699134
>You can only use the Command Re-roll Strategem to re-roll your own rolls.
>Celestine is a unique unit, one per army

>> No.53700506

>>53700480
Good, I use the folk art acrylic from Walmart.

>> No.53700514

>>53700477
"conflicting rules"
The player who's turn it is decides the order so for the attacking player
>Apply, only hit on y+ rule
>Apply only hit on x+ rule which overwrites y+
>need x+ to hit

>> No.53700518

>>53700144
the point isn't "oh you're off by 1 power point" or "oh you're off by 5 matched points"

the point is that 2000 matched points isn't balanced against 2000 other matched points.

There are always models which are more efficient than their points cost and models which are bad.
reading comprehension

>> No.53700526

>>53700448
No but if you based your army with sand it has to be the GW basing sand.

>> No.53700533

So what are the cons of taking 5 captains in my supreme command detachment?
pros:
>higher wound count
>more attacks in cqc
>good weapon options

>> No.53700534

>>53700497
Power levels should definitely be wysiwyg

>> No.53700547

>>53700518
Yeah and if those models that are too efficient for their cost are off by 1ppm it's far more accurate than them being 1PL too efficient. Are you stupid or what?

>> No.53700562

Are Nobz in a 'Naut good now?

>> No.53700566

>>53700485
was kinda kicking myself for getting the tartaros but when I sat down and really looked at it they are better in every way even aesthetically

>> No.53700569

How are you going to equip your Boxnauts for 8th /tg/? I got the start collecting set and don't know how to kit it out.

>> No.53700579

necron player who started the shitshow with his 99 power point list here
my friend texted me and he realized how broken power level is and while he knows we are just playing for fun, his autism won't let him play power level, so now its gonna be 2000 vs 2000 tomorrow, I'm hope you guys are happy

>> No.53700582

>>53700518
Points aren't perfect, but they're a better indicator than power level. The fact that I can give my rubrics a Soulreaper cannon, Warpflamers, and an Icon of Flame for the same price as not giving them that is a problem if you're worried about balance.

Power levels are fine if you don't like 2 seconds of simple addition or competition, but arguing that they're equally or less imbalanced than points is absurd.

>> No.53700588

>>53700566

Well I mean aesthetically the Cataphractii do have those neat shoulder dangles and finger claws?

But I kinda like everything except the arms better on Tartaros.

>> No.53700589

>>53700518
Points at least make an attempt to be balanced, and they're planning to tweak them over time to reflect their performance as metas emerge.
Also, a couple power levels of imbalance can translate to hundreds of points worth of imbalance in the case of some armies/units.

>> No.53700594

So what army got raped the hardest, and what is the shittiest part about 8th?

>> No.53700610

>>53700589
the same people designed both balance levels, they're literally as balanced as one another

>> No.53700614

>>53700594
>your army
>that your army didn't get squated since theyre the NPC faction

>> No.53700618

>>53700594
Too early to really tell but apparently craftworld eldar had a nasty fall from grace.

>> No.53700624

>>53700594
Tau, because they got knocked down from a top tier WAACfag army to mid-tier.
Worst part of 8th will be if horde spam actually does end up being the meta.

>> No.53700626

>>53700594
Tzeentch daemons by far and the low level sort of customization

>> No.53700627

>>53700579
You're welcome.

>> No.53700629

are there any oldfags here who can remember if it was this bad when previous editions came out?
which one was the worst?
or have you all hung yourself after playing through multiple editions of this game?

>> No.53700630

>>53700498
>You can only use the Command Re-roll Strategem to re-roll your own rolls.
>not the bullshit clearly wrong, why do we have to tell you idiots not to be stupid

>Celestine is a unique unit, one per army
wait, is where is the rule about unique models at all?
celestine, like the others, is in a separate box from non-uniques, but I can't find the rule.

>> No.53700636

hey /tg/, is Super Clean a good paint stripper? I basically have an entire army to clean up.

>> No.53700641

>>53700630
Unique models tell you on the datasheet.

>> No.53700643

>>53700610
What part about free wargear isn't getting to you?

>> No.53700646

>>53700618
>fall from grace
>deserved nerfing
big difference

>> No.53700647

>>53700448
While we're on the subject of GW tournaments:

How do GW sponsored tournaments feel about converting GW models with non-GW bits?

For example: I want to use a third-party set of heads for all my Guardsmen (see pic)

Maybe different guns for a few models.

>> No.53700648

>>53700629
8e has the best rules, but this "community" is super shit

>> No.53700653

>>53700579
I wouldn't be here if I were happy.

>> No.53700657

>>53700618

If by "nasty fall from grace," you mean still great, just overshadowed by Ynnari.

>> No.53700661

>>53698899

You have enough soulreapers and Las to at least deter vehicles, though you might struggle to focus vehicles down while they're running circles on the table.

>> No.53700662

>>53700624
If I'm really lucky it will, everyone will start spamming snipers and S4/6 weapons to stop the horde...and then I will get to feild my Tanks in an IG counter-counter meta!

But thats just dreams. Reality will likely be hordes for days until the next points re-balance.

>> No.53700665

>>53700630
he wants those things to be added, anon. The point is that those rules arent there..

>> No.53700667

>>53700636
as long as none of its resin you can put it all in .5M HCl and your dudes will be fine
actually I'm gonna see how that works

>> No.53700668

>>53700618
not really as far as I can tell.
Their most broken shit got nerfed to hell, but if you didn't run that shit they look different but still as good.

>> No.53700669

>>53700643
>all this 0 point wargear in "matched" play

>> No.53700673

>>53700626
Makes me sad that they're the worst of the 4 coming from a Tzeentch player who never did shit like screamer-star or summon-spam. At least the Lord of Change is fun.

>> No.53700676

>>53698798
>most things ork
>most things tyranid
>pick two

>> No.53700681

>>53700646
From what I've been hearing, it went beyond reasonable nerfs. That said, they had a good ride for, what, 5 editions? And there's always the possibility that Codexes released later will work out the kinks?

>> No.53700687

>>53700648
your LGS is your community
/tg/ is just for shitposting and forced memes

>> No.53700693

>>53700629
2e to 3rd was bad. Some people couldn't understand that People that liked the other edition wanted something different from the game. It's the only time I saw people irl quit over rules change.

>> No.53700694

>>53700647
They won't care because you still had to buy a $30 infantry squad for the conversion.

>> No.53700696

>>53700646
>deserved nerfing
All the way to bottom tier?

That's nasty. Like one of those cartoons where you have a misogynist guy who gets turned in to a girl by a witch or something to teach him a lesson about respecting others but then he gets raped by his friends who dont recognize him anymore.

>> No.53700697

>>53700641
>>53700665
ah, I see.
It was clearly intended for celestine, as she's in the unique model section of the point list. So good catch on that.

>> No.53700704

>>53700630
>clarification on the command re-roll should be obvious
>there's been a question about it in almost every thread so far
>even the lead designer had to clarify
Yeah, but "you can re-roll any single dice" doesn't make it clear that you can only re-roll your own rolls, and if that shit's not in the FAQ, I'm literally going to have to print out a fucking tweet to prove it to people.

>> No.53700707

>>53700594
Anything that tried to summon spam

>> No.53700711

>>53700669
You mean like Bolters, dumbass? A squad of Chosen with all plasma pistols and power weapons cost the same amount of power as Chosen with bolters only, that is the problem with Power levels.

>> No.53700714

>>53700696
what cartoons are you watching?
sounds like a steven king novel/ episode of twilight zone/ hentai one off

>> No.53700717

>>53700696
It's not like they got the ork treatment or anything, they're not unplayably bad.

>> No.53700724

>>53700696

CWE aren't a bottom tier army. They've got spammable sniper troops with alternate deployments and Shruiken Cannon bikes are still very good.

>> No.53700736

>>53700696
we already had the local eldar WAACfag at my LGS quit 40k because 8th "was shitty and wasn't balanced" because he had to bring more units than 30 jetbikes, I'm loving it

>> No.53700741

>>53700704
no, rerolling your own shit only is common sense.
Hence, idiot question they shouldn't have to answer.
A lot of people are being really stupid, but that doesn't change it being really stupid.

The wu-tang clan bs gets brought up every thread, but that is also really stupid.

>> No.53700748

>>53700629

Are you judging 'this bad' based on /tg/'s reaction? If so - that's not a good idea. A) /tg/ is shit at 40k, B) /tg/ has a shitty 40k community as a result.

>> No.53700756

>>53700696
>>53700681
>>53700646
>>53700618

I thought Craftworld Eldar were okay? What changed? I know the wraithknight got nerfed to hell but what about shit like Aspects?

>> No.53700761

>ultrmarines nine times the wargear of most other chapters

>> No.53700763

>>53700594

Meta wsie, Tau got shafted the most.
Fluff wise, imperial knights and superheavies in general are in a shitty place because of how the rules work now.

Worst part of 8th is how broken hordes can be.

>> No.53700773

>>53700741
the wu-tang clan bs is a meme that's obviously wrong by a RAW reading of the rules
the re-rolls thing is a genuine question raised because a RAW reading of the rule does not indicate any restrictions on whose rolls you can re-roll, and definitely needs to be in the FAQ

>> No.53700775

>>53700736

I mean bringing 30 or bikes still isn't bad you just gotta snip the ole scatter laser off and glue the shruiken cannon on. Toss in some rangers, and some shit with Aeldari Missile Launchers (which are fucking good) - blamo.

>>53700756

Wraithknight didn't get nerfed, just got costed approprately. Still actually really good, I've played 3 games with a double d-cannon set up and it has performed admirably both as an anti-monster and anti-infantry unit.

>> No.53700777

>>53700756
Spiders and jetbikes aren't such annoyance to deal with. No invisibility on auto-cast. Basically all their crutches got taken away.

>> No.53700786

>>53700763
I'm a nid player and I love it

>> No.53700795

>>53700717
>>53700724
as an eldar player, fluff player btw I thought aspect warrior fluff was cool and ran mostly aspect dar, I don't feel nerfed.

The scatbikes I felt pretty guilty about everytime I used are nerfed, but fuck yeah. Swapping to different weapons and loving the new models. The base TWL paults are actually pretty sweet now too.

Need to see how bad Dire Avengers feel, but the rest looks good. Wraithlord and Avatar got better. Warlocks can now be used to buff any unit which is sweet.

>> No.53700810

>>53700756

They're memeing, CWE are fine, just not as strong as Ynnari and not auto-win anymore.

>> No.53700811

>>53700786

I'd rather hordes not be broken, and Nids being good without having to spam what's meta.

>> No.53700819

>>53700763
Hordes would be ok but GW decided with its infinite wisdom to make all the relevant hordes practically immune to morale, which is the fucking game mechanic to keep hordes in check in the first place.

>> No.53700823

>>53700629
>are there any oldfags here who can remember if it was this bad when previous editions came out?
>which one was the worst?

2nd to 3rd edition.

3rd was just as radical departure from 2nd as 8th is from 7th.

4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th were all just iterations of the basic rules introduced in 3rd.

>> No.53700826

>>53700647
I went to a Game Day in Chicago during 5E

They didn't give a shit about anything. They had a "NO RECASTS" rule as in no making your own stuff. People had recast sprues out in public and nobody cared as long as they weren't selling them, and even that happened a bit under the table.

Some of the best models there were from a dude who recast his stealth suits out of clear plastic. Everyone, including the staff, thought they were awesome.

Some dude playing Feral Orks won, he brought 6 Squiggoths and like 250 2 point Orks or some shit, pretty funny.

>> No.53700827

>>53699294
>>53699364

The cornball sci-fantasy pointed knight faceplates look rad precisely because they do not.

>> No.53700835

>>53698765

So it seems to me that Knight Commander Pask Executioner is actually a solid platform. With his native BS of 2+ he still hits with 3's on the the move and his ability to give orders to himself means that he can re-roll ones and be more liberal in overcharging all his plasma batteries.

D3 + D3 + D6 S7 shots at BS2 seems pretty fucking mean with a pretty low chance to overheat because of the order on board.

>> No.53700836

>>53700819

Agreed.

>> No.53700838

>>53700777
>eldar are a good army with solid units but actually now require planning and have way less safeties and backstops to fall back on
this seems fine

>> No.53700839

>>53700795

If it makes you feel better Dire Avengers cost is almost certainly an error.

>> No.53700844

>>53700826
Awesome! Thanks for the reassurance anon!

>> No.53700865

>>53700819

>Morale was irrelevant last time so made it relevant
>Except tons of armies can ignore morale easily anyway again

>> No.53700870

So, what do you all think of these changes as ways to fix blast weapons?

First give them all a rule that copies the wound allocation for mortal wounds, something like:
>Blast: Excess damage from attacks that are caused by blast weapons are not lost. Instead keep allocating damage to another model in the target unit until either all the damage has been allocated or the target unit is destroyed.

and in addition, instead of making large blasts and up D6s, make them increase in increments of D3s (i.e. a D6 becomes a 2D3, and so on.
This would mean that the average number of shots would increase, and the absolute minimum number of shots put out would increase as well.
In addition it also adds the theoretical option of 3D3 attacks, for weapons that you want to be between old large blast (now D6) and old apocalyptic (now 2D6).

>> No.53700872

more than eldar I'm just glad that it seems Dark Angles are now well less cancerous to play against
I learned out to play around them but i always hated to see the color drain from someones face who brought a shooty army with no ignores covered realized they had to shoot against 2+/3+ cover rerolling

now they are just a variation of standard space marines with good bikers and a gay primarch

>> No.53700883

>>53700819
Nids aren't as immune to moral if you kill the synapse, and the new character protection doesn't apply to anything but broodlord for them. So take down the big ones.

Orcs pretty good at it, but their is a threshold where it goes over. Kill 20 of the 30 man blob and the last 10 go poof.

Commissar+conscript is the most powerful on the face, but also has the biggest counterplay with snipers.

>> No.53700884

>>53700826
>250 2 point Orks
That's fucking beautiful.

>> No.53700885

>>53700865
except they can't

>> No.53700900

>>53700870
So why would you use anything but blast weapons?

>> No.53700904

>>53700872
>now they are just a variation of standard space marines with good bikers and a gay primarch
No, that's Iron Hands.

>> No.53700908

>>53700885

>> No.53700913

>>53700795

I have to hope DA were an oversight and they didn't realize that what they meant to be a 7 pt gun for a character makes a DA nearly double his base cost.

>> No.53700920

>>53700870
i love it
>former blast weapons are still decent at handling infantry and can now blow chunks out of single model units and vehicles
>no hobby aids to keep up with, now all you need is a measuring tape and dice
>saves tons of time
say what you will about it dumbing down the game, but i play guard which is one of the most pie plate heavy armies in the game and i like the changes completely
>hopefully i don't realize i was lying to myself when the hype wears off and the nostalgia goggles kick in

>> No.53700936

>>53700872
I have a buddy who plays his Blood Angels with the Ravenwing rules and holy fuck it was the most unfun thing to play against. I'm glad that and grav aren't insta-takes anymore.

>> No.53700939

>>53700904
>so its not just me that thinks daddy Ferrus looks like a very butch gay guy
also hows the weather on the pleasure planet fulgrim?

>> No.53700940

>>53700900
Because most blast weapons are either overcosted or have shit like punishers as alternatives?

>> No.53700946

>>53700865
In fairness, there are counters to most of the "ignores morale" shit flying around.
For orks, you just need to kill about half of one mob and half of the mob next to it, starting from one side. After that, they'll start evaporating very quickly. Refused flank is the counter.
Conscript blobs deal shit damage and sniping the commissar will see them wiped off the table in no time.
Nids are a little tougher because of synapse, but your AT weapons should be able to do good work against the majority of their synapse creatures.
Horde infantry will be viable and useful, but I don't think it will become the be-all end-all meta.

>> No.53700962

>>53700900
They're still unreliable compared to the alternatives, just like before

>> No.53700968

>>53700870
d3 things I might agree on, but he excess damage I don't.
The larger damage is supposed to represent it being a hard hit not big area. For the same reason krack missiles, meltas, etc don't overflow, neither does the LRBC.
Stuff that was suppose to be just lots of low-mid power hits don't have damage over 1, just lots of potential hits.

>> No.53700970

>>53700962
I'll see when you've done all the math.

>> No.53700974

>>53700920
The stat allocation is all wonky because they sticked to just d3's and d6's. 2d6 is too high for most cases, d6 might be too low. Stuff like pulse driver being d3 is just retarded. Having basic RPG stuff likd d3+2 or d6+1 would have gone long way and heck, even d2 on some cases would have made sense but guess they still don't trust their players with basic math.

>> No.53700981

>>53700763

Yeah they just practically made the Stompa one of those "why should I even bother" options.

>> No.53700984

>>53698798
Electro-priests seem to be much better.

>> No.53700988

How does a Primaris only Black Templars army work?

>> No.53700990

>>53700946
>For orks, you just need to kill about half of one mob and half of the mob next to it, starting from one side. After that, they'll start evaporating very quickly. Refused flank is the counter.

Does Battle Shock (or whatever morale checks are called) only count the number of troops that died in one turn when you roll the die, or the number of troops that died over the course of the entire game?

>> No.53701005

>>53700872
I actually beat a list like that with "the worst list in the store"
>they get cocky and ride up blowing plasma shots all over
>run and charge 30 boyz, 10 tankbustas, 10 burnas, 15 kommandos, 7 bikes
>they drown in green

>> No.53701012

>>53700920

Speaking as someone who hated the small blast templates removing them, even if it meant removing large, enormousness humorously large and "your asshole in prison", was the smartest decision GW made.

Hell, at least some of the small blast weapons got better from the change, frag missiles are D6 shots instead of, at most, hitting one or two units if your enemy has the correct number of chromosomes and spread them out to max coherency.

>> No.53701018

>>53700990
one turn, but the ork rule counts the total models in the unit.
Once they are down to half, they don't have the bodies to still be at decent leadership after a good murdering.

>> No.53701021

>>53700988
Pray to the God Emperor that we get some melee-Primaris. Until then you'll have to deal with a relatively unfluffy army, in playstyle at least.

>> No.53701027

>>53700908
>he's one of those "on paper" retards who thinks every unit in his list will be next to a commissar every single turn.

>> No.53701036

>>53700667
I mean, that's not very concentrated. Is there anything in the paint/plastic that will even react?

>> No.53701037

>>53701012
>hitting one or two units if your enemy has the correct number of chromosomes and spread them out to max coherency.
agreeing with the same argument from the other side, it also save you the time spent carefully placing all your models exactly 2" apart.
It was the right move, but made movement much more time consuming.

>> No.53701065

>>53700974

There really need to add some more weapons like the pred cannon, 2D3 is a nice consistent number of shots. But hes, some larger blast weapons should have more rules like "D6 shots + 1 for every 5 models in the unit" or "D6 shots + 1D3 per 10 models in the unit" but at that point you're really getting muddled in rolling more dice than you should. The less the amount of time between designating a unit to shoot at and that unit taking saves the better.

>> No.53701075

>>53701027

>> No.53701103

>>53701036
shit i meant 5M
glad i made that mistake here, moving a decimal place in the lab on stuff would get me in a lot of trouble

>> No.53701105

>>53700835
(2+2+3.5)/36=about a 20% chance of overheating, doing D6 mortal wounds and completely ruining all your plasma weapons. Careful, that's statistically 1 worthless Pask per game.

I wouldn't be too worried though: Pask is the ultimate "Nuke him first!" target in the game, so he's unlikely to last 5 rounds anyways. Best put the warlord on that OTHER command tank you brought to avoid losing your warlord to Tall Poppy Syndrome.

>> No.53701111

>>53699865
they can't be any worse than what people say in these threads

>> No.53701114

>>53698790
Conscripts shoot better but in all cases get smashed in HtH.

>> No.53701135

>>53700865
>armies now have to work to mostly ignore it instead of having army wide pseudo fearless
i mean its an improvement at least, remember when everyone was worried you'd loose one guy and entire squads would spontaneously combust? seems the pendulum has shifted

>> No.53701140

>>53700946

None of the stuff you mentioned is actually a hard counter, and most can be countered or lessened with basic los abuse.

>> No.53701145

>>53698823

If no one converters the Incinerators into boomboxes. I will be sorely disappointed.

>> No.53701167

>>53700835
>his ability to give orders to himself
I thought the rule said other characters

>> No.53701171

>>53701140
Well apart from the snipers vs comissars. But spamming comissars is lot more efficient and easier than spamming snipers.

>> No.53701172

>>53701027
Charging and nuking machine gunners in the Edelweiss is the only reason I remember that game.

But at 30 points per Commie-Czar, it's perfectly within reason to SPAM THE SHIT OUTTA THEM and their Lord upgrades for redundancy's sake. Hell, why not have a bunch of characters with power swords ready to split heads, except because that's ten more conscripts you could be spamming?

>> No.53701177

>>53700974
the worst offender is one of the bane blade varient's main guns that does D6 damage but has a rule that "treats 1s and 2s as 3s" in an attempt to increase consistency, why not D3+2 or D3+3? the statistics would be close

>> No.53701179

>>53701140
I don't know that there are really any hard counters in 8e. The point is that there are perfectly workable counter-strategies to all-in horde lists.

>> No.53701192

>>53700870
2d6 is an average of 7, and at BS4 that's 3.5 hits. If you could only hit 3.5 models with an APOCALYPTIC BLAST in 7th you need to burn your dice. It really feels like the nerf of the century.

>> No.53701193

>>53700835
Guard Officers can't give orders to themselves.

>> No.53701201

>>53701012
id be a bit better with it if models not fully covered were only hit on a 4+ like 3rd, that made blasts way less silly

>> No.53701212

>>53701037

Which is why it probably made more sense overall to drop the templates, the same with the whole "the player who was shot at assigns the wounds" thing they brought back. I actually liked the remove closest models things (except in melee, that got annoying) because it made more sense and could beat back hordes, inch by inch for every model removed, and got rid of the scenario most of the time where you're left with a sergeant and three heavy weapon guys running around from a squad, and I was really worried about the return of "musical wounds" on multi wound models but the damage statistic actually balances that our pretty well.

Over all the changes made things a lot quicker by way of having to remove rules which have to impact those mechanics (no more Look out Sir!), and meant that the game just feels better because you don't have to argue back and forth with an opponent about whats under a blast template and how far it moved or if it moved in the right direction or was slightly off.

Its refreshing to have my plague champions leading his boys from the front flanked by his flamers and with the rest tightly packed in behind him

>> No.53701219

>>53698790
Connscripts out shoot boyz with orders.
And with orders + a priest can out fight boys, point for point, if they get the charge.

>> No.53701224

Has there been any news about the order of codex releases, or at least when we can expect to start seeing them?
I remember a few anons mentioning the possibility that they would release most or all codices at the same time. Was that rumor ever substantiated?

>> No.53701228

>>53701065
XD3 would be better for most blasts unless you want to be deliberately wild. So, you know, Ork guns.

Like, a 2D3 Battle Cannon is leagues ahead of a 1D6, because you're going to statistically land 1 hit minimum, 3 maximum, 2 average. But a 1D6 means 1.75 average and the dreaded occasional 1.

Plus, if a weapon is too weak or too powerful, adding or subtracting a D3 from it's stats is much less likely to kill or turbocharge the weapon.

>> No.53701246

>>53701193
>I Didn't Read the Unit Card Entries: The Post.

>> No.53701256

>>53701246
Except I did.

>> No.53701263

>>53701228
but don't forget rolling a single dice is a bit better when you remember your command rerolls
as a guard player I'm gonna have like upwards of 13 so i can easily use one every shooting phase

>> No.53701271

>>53701256
An arguement could be made for tanks commanders. But officers can clearly order themselves.

>> No.53701273

Finally got a chance to play 8e, with a friend who only plays Deathwatch + Stormtroopers and only 500 points, so I'm trying to get good functional 500 point lists

We've gotten a chance to play once so far and I tried
Cannonness with Combi-Plasma on foot
Flamer Dominions in flamer Immolator
and 2 teams of 5x Seraphim with Inferno Pistols

I lost, but I have no idea what I learned because the major contributing factor was a Callidus Assassin making 23 4++ saves in a row, rendering my Immolator useless for 3 turns in between killing my Cannoness while I failed multiple Command Point Rerolled Act of Faith attempts

So against my better judgement and this sign from God that Sororitas should just sort of stop, I want to try again

What should I change or try? Footslogging with an Imagifier and fuckton of Sisters doesnt appeal, a Cannoness cant ride in an Immolator with Dominions and doesnt buff Flamers anyway - I was thinking maybe Melta dominions and giving the Seraphim hand-flamers, with the objective of roasting light infantry immediately while the immolator rolls up to bully. I just cant think of a use or need for a Cannoness in an outrider detachment, and cant think of a shooty thing for her to babysit at this points level.

>> No.53701275

>>53701224
death guard and space marines are clearly coming first since they have tons of new models coming out

>> No.53701279

Need a further line on some dedicated horde weapons.
Like if 15+ models in the target, add a further D6 hits or whatever.
To scale up against hordes without becoming supreme tankbusters

Conscript would be a non-issue if the most potent anti horde/infantry guns could really do work against large blobs

>> No.53701284

so i just realized that you don't take morale checks from taking deaths from shooting but it also looks like characters don't test for morale since they don't lose models. i feel like this is wrong, can anyone confirm?

>> No.53701289

>>53701256
Please point to the sentence on Pask's stats page that says "Cannot issue orders to himself" or "Cannot issue orders to characters".

>> No.53701293

so pask is shit now right? am i missing something?

>> No.53701310

>>53701279
>smilingwyverngunner.jpg
>smugflammervets.cadia
>laughingmortarteam.vox

>> No.53701314

>>53701284
Characters don't take morale but you do take morale from shooting. You take a morale test from models lost during the last turn, not just the assault phase.

>> No.53701321

>>53701263
That's nice if you have a single tank, but if you have 4, your only going to have one command reroll to share.

Which is why I'm hoping we get some sort of high-CP strategem that lets us mitigate all the randoms at once.
>Not accounting balance. Example purposes only

Preplotted Targeting: 4 CP
All Weapons with random number of attacks can reroll the number of attacks once in this phase.

>> No.53701331

>>53701314
that makes more sense, it is odd that characters don't take morale checks

>> No.53701353

>>53701331
I'm fine with it, I'd be sad if I had a Bloodthirster magically disappear after taking 5 wounds.

>> No.53701361

>>53700533
Anyone? I am only seeing positives so far

>> No.53701368

>>53701321
i mean that doesn't seem to broken to me, if you use that every turn you won't get more than 3-4 activations a game, and thats if you really build up your army around CP, the only thing i could see being broken would be basilisks and wyverns since they roll multiple dice

>> No.53701383

>>53701273
>a Callidus Assassin making 23 4++ saves in a row
You sure your opponent isn't using loaded dice?

>> No.53701385

>>53700533
add up the points with equipment and you'll see the cons

>> No.53701386

>>53699354
>>53699455
>>53699519
>>53699902
>>53700013
>>53699198
I HATE YOU I FUCKING HATE YOU SO MUCH STOP RUINING EVERY FUCKING 40K THREADS WITH YOUR RETARDED STUPID FUCKING REACTION IMAGES NOBODY FINDS YOU FUNNY YOU CHILDISH PIECE OF SHIT NOW STOP POSTING OR ELSE

>> No.53701395

>>53701386
It's reactions like this that make putting up with cheetah anon worth it.

>> No.53701396

>>53701383
>making a frustrating number of saves
they must have just been playing against me

>> No.53701401

>>53701271
>>53701289

Page 10 of the leaked Imperium list book:
"Voice of Command
This unit may issue one order per turn TO THE SOLDIERS UNDER THEIR COMMAND at the start of the shooting phase." (emphasis mine)

Clearly states who they can give orders to. "Soldiers under their command" does not include themselves.

Checkmate.

>> No.53701406

>>53699829
Can i have Ratlings and Ogryns in a GSC force?

what stops me from doing this beyond having to make a separate force org?

>> No.53701407

>>53701224
>that pic
man alive

>> No.53701408

>>53700013
>>implying i dont have an entire folder of cheetahs laughing at your retardation
This is why I love cheetah-postin

>> No.53701417

>>53701386
and this is why cheetah fag does what he does
hes not the hero /tg/ needs, he's the one /tg/ deserves

>> No.53701424

>>53701331
Characters aren't pussies who run, they've seen shit in their time.

>> No.53701431

are there eldar bone singers who make wraith bone dildos?

>> No.53701443

>>53701353
i've lost my bloodthrister over so much stupid stuff it's silly

>down to 1 wound with dreadknight lurking nearby
>dread gets force off
>fires off psilencer but manage to pass saves
>wiff all but 1 axe of khorne attack
>get a 6
>dreadknight fails
>bloodthrister dies to stormbolters from terminators on overwatch

to say nothing of dying from lasguns

>> No.53701451

>checking local listings for warhams
>see lots of "pro-painted" tau after the tau nerf
fucking WAACfags

>> No.53701453

>>53701406
Yes. Nothing is stopping you.

For bonus style points convert the ogryns to look like big aberrants and the ratlings to look like neophyte child soldiers.

>> No.53701455

>>53699746
venom: space knight

an ion cannon showed up in USAvengers from last month

>> No.53701459

So can I just add a couple of squads of Marine Scouts to my Guard since they're both Imperium faction?

>> No.53701471

>>53701383
we were playing on Tabletop Simulator, and I dont imagine he was or knows how to tweak the dice's physics or import his own loaded ones

>> No.53701479

>>53699899
4th expanse was lost in the warp rift, so it can show up anywhere

>> No.53701480

how do we feel about crisis suits with 2-3 flamers each? Because minimum size is now 3. Point for point they seem like a fair deal, but at a minimum squad size of 3 you end up investing some 200 points which is a lot for a unit that will have to get within 8"

>> No.53701497

>>53701459
Yes, just as you can have a Lord of Change lead a battalion of Thousand Sons. As long as an army shares at least 1 keyword it's legal.

>> No.53701505

>>53701368
3-4 activations if your REALLY pouring on the points.

It takes a single Spearhead detachment to use it once.
It takes two battalions to use it twice
It takes a full Brigade for three times and remember your forsaking save rerolls, autopass moral, and an early countermelee for this.

So your really dumping CP into it, but being a reroll you'll likely only use it for 1s and 2s. Overall a good way to balance tankguard vs the new conscriptguard meta.

>> No.53701508

>>53699796
>Games not out yet
>Vast majority of 40k players will use points
>Youll have to adapt

Oh anon youre in for a rude awakening in about a month.

>> No.53701511

>>53701443
when i played grey knights i don't think my dread knight ever lost its last wound to anything but vehicle explosions/bolters/bolt pistols

>> No.53701529

>>53701459
as long and they are both from <chapter> and <regiment> <wu tang clan> its legal

>> No.53701536

>>53701480
Commanders almost all the time over crisis

>> No.53701542

>>53699758
Because its harder to achieve balance using large increments of points to unit / gear value.

Power level is literally imbalanced crap, math dont lie even if anons dont understand it.

I mean its got a place, but all the anons thinking youll have to adapt from points to power level are pants on head retarded.

>> No.53701563

>>53701401
2/10
including bonus points for the smug anime pic.

>> No.53701564

>>53701511
it was a bad game for the grey knight player in general. his librarian peril'd every turn and blew up. it was hilarious for me though

>> No.53701566

>>53701505
the current 200 pt guard list I've memed up can pop it 4 times with no other uses for CP, I'm using a bane blade so i imagine if i dropped that i could squeeze out a 5th but that would be pretty silly
4CP activations will be a big deal

>> No.53701578

>>53701529

You don't even have to do that you fucking idiot. It is entirely legal because they both have the <Imperium> keyword. At least play the fucking meme properly.

>> No.53701591

>>53701563
>-2 points for not using best girl
>0/10

>> No.53701644

>>53701566
Bull! The Baneblade itself costs more than 200 points! I think you mean 2000.

But more importantly, does this meme'd up list take enough heavy random fire weapons to make the Stategem worth using anyways? Rerolling all the random weapons isn't useful if all you got are lasguns, bolters, heavy bolters, punisher/gatling weapons, etc.

>> No.53701654

>>53701453
Nice. i have Ogryns ready to convert

need to make ratlings out of something. might just use straight up skaven for 'em

>> No.53701671

do you guys want a good laugh?

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/727920.page#9416322

>> No.53701673

>Name IG <regiment> the Salamanders
>Run them alongside Salamanders space marines
>Guardsmen have the salamanders keyword, are affected by <chapter> buffs and <regiment> buffs from their fellow salamanders

Does it say anywhere that you can't do this?

>> No.53701680

>>53698938
Conscripts + Priest + Straken

>> No.53701681

>>53701673
Wow, you so smart! I bet noone ever thought about this

>> No.53701692

>>53701671
It warms my heart to see that Trad is still tardposting after all this time.

>> No.53701704

>>53701673
Enough with these meme, anon, it's been debunked to death, and frankly it's just tiring now.

>> No.53701705

>>53701103

They can be tricky for sure. 5M vs 0.5M is a hell of a difference, there. At that point, I'd be concerned about plastic and even metal, actually, though pewter doesn't react much with HCL I don't think. I honestly don't know.

>> No.53701707

>>53700518
you know damn well points are balanced extremely closely to barely a margin of error and anyone here who says otherwise probably just sucked balls in 7th so badly that GW decided to make 8th a game designed for fucking teenagers.

>> No.53701715

>>53701671
>>53701692

>eceleb/forum celeb time

>> No.53701716

>>53700127
Dont read the rules.

>> No.53701734

>>53701289
"Note that Knight Commander Pask can issue orders to OTHER Cadian Leman Russ characters"

>> No.53701736

>>53701707
Now the damn best models to be produced by GW will see hardly any tabletop usage due to the autistic screeching of fags that couldn't build a list. Eat a bag of dicks

>> No.53701742

>>53699105
The redpill is that conscripts have always been the best unit in the game.

>> No.53701743

>>53701707
1/10, what's left of my soul after reading this general for the past week briefly resurfaced for a couple seconds

>> No.53701752

>>53698765
New best unit in the game. under 150 points for 12 t6 wounds and 18 str 6 shots at 36" that hit on 4's. All the normal benefits of being hypersonic, too.

>> No.53701755

>>53701736
>best models to be produced by GW
pic unrelated?

>> No.53701770

>>53699300
They were thrown around liberally about a week ago.

>> No.53701776

>>53701736
Metal Gear?

>> No.53701783

>>53701736
>expecting sympathy for riptides and tau

>> No.53701832

>>53701752
Annihilation Barge's do pretty similar as well.

>> No.53701842

>>53701736
Much like how fags bitched all through 7th about then being broken, people will bitch all through 8th about how they're trash, when in reality they were only slightly too good and are now are just less aggressively costed

>> No.53701850

>>53701736
I know, right! Now the Forge World Vanquishers will never see the tabletop! At least, not unless FW does something to directly contradict the index.

Fortunately some of the stupider looking models have also been removed from competitive play. Like that stupid looking top-heavy tau mech with tiny needle feet. What was it's name again?

>> No.53701860

>>53701832
It it also immune to melee and capable of moving 60 inches a turn?

>> No.53701876

>>53701479

On the one hand, we could be in for some Event Horizon shit where these guys come back as completely brain-fucked mutants after spending effectively millennia trapped in the Warp that want to share their vision of the greater good with the rest of the Tau Empire.

Or, it'll just be an excuse to give the Tau a power bump by having them come back having spent effectively millennia trapped in the Warp doing nothing but focused ANTI-WARP SCIENCE and directly countering all the Imperium's new Cawl-fueled advancements.

Sadly my money is on the latter.

>> No.53701882

>>53701850
Hurricanepulse I think

>> No.53701904

>>53701850
>Fortunately some of the stupider looking models have also been removed from competitive play.

Anon I know we're all used to them by now (since theyve been around for 30 fucking years), but Leman Russ tanks look fucking stupid. They make no physical sense as vehicles or as tanks, their proportions are wonky, and the models are ancient and undetailed (its like the oldest sculpt left in normal use).

So lets not post one and then act like its hot shit. Even though it is literally hot shit.

>> No.53701908

>>53701876
Personally, I'm hoping for new Tau enclaves popping up on the other side of the galaxy, close to the eye on the far side of the rift, with a few scattered pockets elsewhere, along with more insane renegade Tau trying to uncover this whole chaos business but having trouble due to how hard it is to get daemons to notice them

>> No.53701910

>>53701860
No, but it can bounce multi damage hits and regen wounds.

>> No.53701925

I don't get how lemon rust is supposed to look good.
Can't help but think it is permanently in a state of tipping forward.

>> No.53701938

>>53701910
Welcome to the league of possibly undercosted vehicles

Our motto is "No matter how good we are conscripts are still better"

>> No.53701962

>>53701925
lots of glue and pinning

>> No.53701983

>>53701938
At least i don't think conscripts can do enough to wipe crons so we should do ok vs them.

>> No.53701998

>>53701925
It's stockholm syndrome. It's a shitty model and a hilariously bad design for a tank. I get that MOST tanks in the game are bad designs for actual tanks, but this one looks bad too.

>> No.53702019

>>53701904
True, but neither did the Char 1 Bis. But the Char 1 actually existed, back when designers were still asking questions like "How does I slope armor" or "What am shot traps".

The Riptide looks like something that could only come out of a Japanese light novel...written by an American.

>> No.53702033

>>53701983
I am not going to go digging for all the math that backs it up, but rest assured that they certainly can. Yesterday everyone was searching for any possible model or army that could meaningfully counter them and no one could.

Even shit like 32 taurox primes all with 8 shot volley blasters, 3 shot stubbers, and 20 shot gatling canons couldn't put out enough wounds and would eventually get tabled.

>> No.53702054

>>53702033
I mean I can regen 75% casualties every turn, so it'll just grind at each other until the game ends.

>> No.53702067

>>53702019
Still miles ahead of German Panzers.

>> No.53702079

>>53702033
You've got that backwards. The taurox primes table the conscripts but it can take up to 8 turns which obviously can't happen.

Also the conscripts might still be able to win by objectives if they're not tabled.

>> No.53702082

>>53702019
The leman russ only looks like the char if you cut the char in half, but keep the tiny turret. Then you stick a canon with a barrel so big it would have to shoot country-fair winning watermelons. Then you put giant, nonsensical, sponsons out of the side of it that couldn't possibly WORK.

The Bis looks 10 times better than the garbage that is the russ. Image related, it's the char and the russ based on it.

>> No.53702084

>>53698823
Is there helmet option for that bald guy ?

>> No.53702085

>>53700629
Naw its basically the same as 2nd to 3rd but since its regarded by many as a healthy change from 7th were seeing less of this.
>>53700693

>> No.53702091

>>53699550
They were never going to help you. Your best bet to get help with the list is to wait until the next 40k general, post the list with points, and act like this never happened.

>> No.53702132

>>53702067
Nah. The German Panzers had 3-man turrets. Does wonders for crew efficiency and communication. Also, the right gun is mounted in the right place. To say nothing of better speed.

The Char 1 had a ONE MAN TURRET! Can you imagine trying to load a gun, acquire the enemy, turn the turret, and command the crew all simultaneously? Fuck that noise. Give me a Panzer 3 any day.

>> No.53702139

>>53702091
thats the plan bucko, figure ill post this tomorrow when everything resets

>> No.53702140

>>53702067
>miles ahead of the absolute pinnacle of tank design at the time
Nah. Panzers best until the mid '40s when the russians figured out how to into tank design.

And then the russians dominated tank design into the 60's

When America finally got its shit together(american politicians and generals honestly thought tanks were a short lived fad and that they would be going away after WWII).

Who dominated tank design until the early 2000's when germany got back into the game. America still close 2nd though, with russia close 3rd and britain, china, france, and isreal vying for 4th.

>> No.53702141

>>53701904
Not who you're talking to, but I am an IG player who loves to run armored companies or at least vehicle-heavy armies.

And I agree with you that of all tank designs GW had to pick out, they had to go with the one inspired by World War 1. This might look cool to a lot of people, but this is supposed to be a science fiction game. Granted, it's a weird science-fantasy universe that's essentially a GRIMDARK version of Star Wars, but even Star Wars came up with some SCI-FI looking vehicles.

The Leman Russ is nothing more than a World War 1 tank taken wholesale from historical pics, molded into plastic, and dumped into the year 40000. And those of us who know anything about tanks can't accept that. Hell even those of us that don't know anything about tanks would rather they come up with a new design.

Anyhow, I think GW sees themselves as in a bind: They thing the rules of a Leman Russ are absolutely married to the stats and there's no way around that. Somebody needs to let them know it's okay to release an updated Leman Russ that's a bit more sci-fi looking and keep all the rules for it. Jesus, all they have to do is take a look at their BaneBlade series and just scale that down, and they'd have something a lot prettier to look at.

Marines had their Rhino and Land Raider updated. Why can't the Leman Russ? Would Marine players' feelings get hurt that the Guard might have something cooler looking than they do?

>> No.53702158

>>53700693
To be fair, 2ED was a small skirmish game
3ED kicked it up to giant battles.

Like the average space marine army went from like ~10 models to 25+

>> No.53702176

>>53699105
equal points in fire warriors beat them

>> No.53702185

>>53702141
>They thing the rules of a Leman Russ are absolutely married to the stats and there's no way around that.

Teaches me to post while drinking. I meant to say: They think the MODEL of a Leman Russ is absolutely married to the stats

>> No.53702207

>>53702141
>Would Marine players' feelings get hurt that the Guard might have something cooler looking than they do?
They had to make an entirely new in universe event and ruleset to sell Marine players on Truescale Marines. Take from that what you will.

>> No.53702208

>>53702132
Well, armor wise they were ahead, especially in the use of sloped armor versus the German's aversion to sloped armor until the Panther

>>53702140
Shhhh let me hate on the German tank designs for their overengineering and retarded armor schemes and love the Sherman as the best tank of the war

>> No.53702221

>>53702141

>The Leman Russ is nothing more than a World War 1 tank taken wholesale from historical pics, molded into plastic, and dumped into the year 40000. And those of us who know anything about tanks can't accept that.

Kind of supposed to look crude isn't it?

>> No.53702224

>>53702140
>Nah. Panzers best until the mid '40s when the russians figured out how to into tank design.

Basically every historian on earth will tell you that's untrue. German designs weren't notably better than competing designs until the panzer 3, which had MONTHS of superiority before competing designs like the sherman and t34 beat it. Then it was a constant arms race, with German tanks getting larger but also worse as their ability to manufacture quality steel and engine parts degraded heavily.

>> No.53702236

>>53702132
>>53702140
german tanks were utterly inferior to french tanks in the battle of france
it was the use of them in combined arms operations and the tactics used that made them win so effortlessly, then they started developing proper heavy tanks

>> No.53702238

>>53702158
>To be fair, 2ED was a small skirmish game

It was MEANT to be a small skirmish game, but far too many players still brought humongous armies to the table anyway. Even though it meant the game would last literally an entire day, provided you started in the morning.

3rd edition just slimmed the rules down to accommodate that many models, because they thought it's what players wanted. And apparently, they did. Otherwise 500-1000 points would have been the norm.

>> No.53702244

>>53702033
>Yesterday everyone was searching for any possible model or army that could meaningfully counter them and no one could.
Tyranids already figured that shit out like two days ago. Devilgaunts are the most firepower for the points in the game.

>> No.53702256

>>53702082
It's almost like basing the Leman Russ off the experimental and often impractical interwar tanks lead to a wonky looking impractical tank.

And don't talk to me about nonsensical when the giant robot over their couldn't step in a field without sinking up to it's knees. The overhead tracks, while poor for combat, at least facilitate trench crossings.

>And then you put giant, nonsensical sponsons...

Those are not mandatory, and I try to avoid them. Hence original pic.

Your picking all the wrong fights here, anon. I know my tank looks silly. I LIKE the silly look, because it reminds me of the Bis, the TOG, the Marks, and the T-28. That's what makes the Leman Russ THE Leman Russ. If I wanted sleeker, practical designs I'd be buying up Hammerheads like a speculator (Seriously, Hammerheads are the best thing in the Tau army).

>> No.53702284

>>53702141
Except it's not because its literally HALF as long as that tank and twice as tall. It's not a ww1 tank. It's at best a shitty interperetation of an interwar design and at worst a LITERAL clone of the BDR G1 B, which I can't even find an actual photo of.

But even the tank it's clearly cloning looks 10 times better because the proportions aren't ludicrous.

>> No.53702286

>>53702221
>Kind of supposed to look crude isn't it?

Sure, but THAT crude? The best comparison I can make off the top of my head is imagine a brand new "science fiction" franchise that features space ship fighters that look like bi-planes

>> No.53702295

> Getting into 40k and learning the lore
> Building Blood Angels army
> Loyalist Primarchs coming back

oh man Sanguinius is neat I wonder...

> Turbo mega killed by Horus

oh...

>> No.53702307

>>53702224
>like the sherman
The sherman was never superior to anything except sheer numbers.

The sherman platform was a shitheap. But it was an easy to build shitheap that america was able to pump out.

If russia had tossed america the t34 designs(moreso the T-34-85) their armor would have faired a lot better.

>> No.53702318

>>53702256
The problem is that.
Wait for it.

IT LOOKS FUCKING TERRIBLE

Like, we have good giant robots and bad ones. We also have good looking tanks and bad ones. That is a really terrible looking tank. Its just stupid. It's a worse design than any interwar design mixed with terrible modeling.

>> No.53702327

>>53702236

>german tanks were utterly inferior to french tanks in the battle of france

I thought it was said the french tanks largely had better armor, but that they were slower, had inferior armament and didn't have the advantage of having a crew to handle functions like gunnery, driving and commanding.

I've heard it said it was either the commander or driver that was also the gunner.

I think they also had to manually crank the turret around in quite a few French tanks, while German tanks had a powered turret crank of some sort.

>> No.53702334

>>53702295
>yfw it's actually Sanguinius on the golden throne and Boss E is out there somewhere doing hoodrat stuff with his missing sons.

>> No.53702349

>>53702176
drones beat fwarriors though

>> No.53702353

>>53702236
Heavy Tanks: The absolute pinnacle of "Well it looked good on paper!"

It's all Tiger Master Race until you realize they won't fit on the train, or an inner road wheel broke and you need to remove 5 other wheels to reach it, or the transmission goes kaput because it's lugging around so much armor.

Honestly tank design didn't really hit it's stride until the likes of the Sherman, the T-34, and the Cromwell. Although I'd give a pass to the KV-1. Shame they were all on the assaulting side most of the war and basically had to walk into ambushes all-day every day.

>> No.53702357

>>53702286

I've been under the impression the thing is crude as the realities of the battlefield make it pointless to build anything more advanced.

>> No.53702367

>>53702295
>Take Red Grail
>Feed it to Sanguinor
>????
>Kept you waiting huh?

>> No.53702369

>>53700300
I just made a fully upgraded eldar/deldar list for 100 power and it's only 1901 points though, you're trying to be sarcastic by pretending to be something you aren't when you are actually that thing.

>> No.53702373

>>53702295
I mean there's always the Sanguinor, but he's not quite a replacement for Best Primarch.

>> No.53702377

>>53702307
>Reading Deathtraps and thinking he's done research.

>> No.53702389

im a guard player and this is too much tank wank for me, can someone tell this thread about the rabbits and make a new one?

>> No.53702395

>>53702307
>The sherman was never superior to anything except sheer numbers.

Thicker armor than the panzer 2, able to kill it in a single shot, faster, more reliable, more comfortable for the crew, more advanced radio equipment, etc.

The Sherman platform was fantastic, it's why they made fifty thousand of them and why it was relevant in the war all the way up until the end unlike most german designs.

>If russia had tossed america the t34 designs(moreso the T-34-85) their armor would have faired a lot better.

The sherman was a better design than the t34 in almost every respect other than frontal armor to tonnage ratio. The t34 is notable for being produced in such ludicrous proportions that the fact that changes in temperature would literally crack the armor open and the fact that it deafened its crew didn't matter.

Like 99% of all tank engagements were against infantry and the sherman was a fantastic tank for that role. It was superior to tanks like the tiger which were scary but were also giant cash and resource sinks and would break down constantly.

>> No.53702412

>>53702327
You are correct. French tank designs were worse than the Germans, because while they may be stronger in terms of arms and armament, the softer stats like suspension, speed, and crew effectiveness were capital-A ass.

>> No.53702413

>>53702373
I'd throw money at Dubs's face if they bring Sangy back in that armor.

>> No.53702420

>>53702334
>>53702373
We need more variety in go-to pictures.

>> No.53702440

>>53702318
Destroyer tank hunter looks pretty cool.

Reminds me of the JagdPanzer IV, or Kanonenjagdpanzer

>> No.53702450

>>53699134
>tyranid warriors/shrikes/primes may take spinefists
>there's no point cost at all for these three unit's Spinefists
>at all
I don't even care really, but what the fuck gives?

>> No.53702468

>>53702357
Those massive fucking side sponsons are just flat out BAD DESIGN. Those treads that go up and over the top are just flat out BAD DESIGN.

A crude design churned out for the sake of simplicity and speed of manufacturing doesn't have to include BAD DESIGN choices. See pic.

>> No.53702472

>>53702440
That things basically just a hetzer, but past a certain point all trapezoid tanks with guns poking out the front look the same.

>> No.53702486

>>53702353
>Heavy Tanks: The absolute pinnacle of "Well it looked good on paper!"
Except that we still use heavy tanks today.

You're thinking of super-heavy tanks like the Tiger 2, Maus, Jagdtiger, etc.

> didn't really hit it's stride until the likes of the Sherman
Sherman was a complete deathtrap. Don't believe movies like Fury. The sherman was hot garbage unless it was supporting(not being supported by) an infantry push.

American tank doctrine in WW2 was simply wrong, and while the tank they designed supported their wrong doctrine, it didn't make that doctrine any less wrong and wasteful of american lives.

>> No.53702487

>>53702295
pshhhh .... nothin personnell ... loyalist

>> No.53702499

>>53702413
Maybe all the genetic psychic PTSD bullshit that the Blood Angels deal with will come to a head and bring him back.

Sort of the hints that the Sanguinor isn't real and is the result of all the Blood Angels missing their dad a whole bunch but bigger and pushed forward by the power of Hand-waving and Money.

>> No.53702501

>>53702295
For model selling sake, you know Dubs gonna fuck up the lore to bring him back.

>> No.53702506

>>53702468
At the very least they could have made the russ look cool with all its mediocre design decisions instead of making it look like some sort of chopped in half chibi tank with a tiny turret and a subway tunnel for a gun.

>> No.53702510

>>53702472
I always thought the vindicator could have been a neat TD model if the barrel was a little bit longer

>> No.53702520

>>53702468

A new Imperial Guard tank might be neat, or at least a nice edition to the IG motorpool. Imperial Guard aren't exactly iconic, save for maybe Cadian armor (and that sure as fuck needs a redesign), but they could have some new digs on treads to freshen up the product line. And I don't mean the Taurox, fucking ugly thing.

Something like a Sherman might be pretty awesome, maybe having it echo themes of the Thunderbolt fighter and bring the Cadians from WWI/II fully into ~WWII in terms of design both in the air and on the ground.

>> No.53702521

>>53702284
On that note, the ARL-44 is a good Vanquisher proxy...

>> No.53702523

>>53699556
God those models are fucking ugly. They clearly weren't designed by someone who actually plays Orks, they're just boxes with Ork shit glued on, it's a travesty.

>> No.53702527

>>53702468
The Leman Russ is supposed to be bad. You don't seem to understand the whole concept of the Imperium. It's a bunch of uneducated religious dirt-farmers conscripted into an unceasing warmachine that is constantly losing ground and struggling just to keep its head above the water, with all of its technology produced by utter fucking MANIACS in a machine cult that reproduces technology through rote memorization after losing all of the foundations of science thousands of years ago.

>> No.53702528

so everyone who would buy a new battle tank design that looked more believable and fit a role the russ didn't post guard pics

>> No.53702529

>>53702506
If a new model Leman Russ looked anything like your pic, I would immediately buy a whole damn Company's worth.

>> No.53702534

>>53702486
>Except that we still use heavy tanks today.

No we're using MBT's. Most tanks in the world today that aren't the Abrams are smaller than WW2 heavy tanks and the abrams is kind of a questionable design in 2017.

>> No.53702536

Why this tank become anti-horde thing? I always thought he was built for tank hunting

>> No.53702544

>>53702486
>t.retard who knows nothing of how the Sherman was the best tank of the war with russians preferring them to t-34's and having a far better road performance, optics, and crew comfort as well as the fact that MBTs are most certainly not heavy tanks and the fact that tank doctrine eliminated the idea of heavy tanks as armor and ammunition got better as well as allowing larger cannons on lighter designs

>> No.53702546

>>53702521
>>53702506

Beat you to it with sexy ARL-44. A bad tank that never did anything but a sexy sexy block of metal.

>> No.53702549

>>53702528

I'll take some Cadian infantry if I got models like your pic as well.

>> No.53702555

>>53702506
>>53702521
Fuck, beat me to it.

>> No.53702558

>>53702395
t34 had better armor
better power to weight ratio
better gun

The only thing the sherman had going for it over the t34 was consistency. T34 was a great design built with poor materials and that made it unreliable.

The Sherman was very reliable, reliable at being garbage. American tank doctrine dictated that tanks support infantry, and that airstrikes, artillery strikes, infantry held anti-tank weapons, and field guns were to engage enemy tanks.

Shermans were never designed to go toe-to-toe in armored engagements. American strategists never considered armored engagements until it was too late, the war was well under way and shermans were being fed shit by superior german strategic tank doctrine. To their credit though, America learned quickly and became the country writing tank doctrine rather then failing to learn it.

>> No.53702561

>>53702536
It sure isn't anti horde with its cost and how few shots it puts out.

It's mostly anti terminator.

>> No.53702589

>>53702555
>>53702546
>>53702506
That's twice, dammit!

You could probably get this look by cutting off the top of the Leman Russ tracks above the front large wheel for a sleeker profile, maybe glue the track guards to the side of the exposed hull...

>> No.53702598

>>53702527

Actually there may not be a point in producing anything better.

When your enemy is just going to teleport chunks out of it, tear through it with warp sorcery, pick it up and throw it, tunnel up beneath it and bore through it, wipe it out enmass and ignore it's armor with most forms of weaponry, what is the point in producing an advanced tank exactly?

>> No.53702600

>>53702499
I just hope he leaves Death Company alone.

>> No.53702602

>>53702528
Hell ya! I'm not a fan of the russ to the point that all of mine are converted with chimera bodies.

>> No.53702603

>>53702527
No, I get that and I DON'T CARE.

The Leman Russ is AN UGLY PIECE OF SHIT TO LOOK AT and I want them to write up some fluff to give us a PRETTIER POLISHED TURD to look at!

In fact, I'll do it right now:

They found a Standard Template Construct of a prettier looking tank design.

There, done.

>> No.53702609

>>53702528

>> No.53702610

>>53702510
The vindicator is literally a german Sturmtiger assault gun.

And actually performs that role in 40k.

>> No.53702643

>>53702558
The T-34 was also garbage in that if you were hit then you were almost certainly going to die. The Sherman was roomy enough so that a hit might not actually kill you, and that munition fires weren't as common, and with the Wet Stowage development on later models meant that ammo cook offs were far less likely to happen than on any other tank of the period. As well as the turret being heavily armored and the gun sights being miles ahead of the T-34 and Panther, the Sherman was able to fight most engagements with an advantage alongside it's Vertical Stabilizers. In the compareatively rare tank battles that did happen, the sherman had a win ratio of 1.2:1 against Panthers. The Sherman was a better tank than the Panther and the T-34.

>> No.53702648

>>53702609
Aren't those coils just a little too warm for her to do that? Or is she working on her tan?

>> No.53702656

>>53702544
>t. retard who has never simply gone to google and lookup sherman losses and what their crews thought about them.

History proves that the sherman was a poorly designed tank for the realities of WW2.

Was it well designed to support infantry? Absolutely. But large infantry pushes were an inferior doctrine that both the germans and the russians abandoned in favor of armored engagements and mechanized companies. America didn't catch on until after the war.

>> No.53702665

>>53702603
that's not how things work in the grim dark future

>>53702600
how would that even work? they're crazy because of the psychic aftereffects on their geneseed. remove that and they're just slightly upset marines in black armor

>> No.53702667

>>53702558
>t34 had better armor
Yes. Which mattered dick all because of shitty soviet steel.

>better power to weight ratio
Sometimes, but a slimmer track base and basically the same real world speed.

>better gun
In basically no respect other than pure penetration against other tanks which was then counter acted by the fact that T34s were very badly made so those guns didn't always shoot straight and failures weren't uncommon.

>The only thing the sherman had going for it over the t34 was consistency. T34 was a great design built with poor materials and that made it unreliable.

It was also incredibly unpleasant to actually pilot and had poor visibility for its occupants making them famously easy to ambush.

>The Sherman was very reliable, reliable at being garbage. American tank doctrine dictated that tanks support infantry, and that airstrikes, artillery strikes, infantry held anti-tank weapons, and field guns were to engage enemy tanks.

Thats because tank's in WW2 regardless of side, weren't actually built to fight other tanks. They were built to fight infantry. Which is what the vast majority of them spent almost their entire lives doing. Tanks battles are cool, but they were comparatively incredibly rare compared to other engagements the tanks took part in.

>Shermans were never designed to go toe-to-toe in armored engagements.

Yeah, neither was anything lighter than a Tiger 1 for the germans, and for that matter neither was the T34 which was totally outclassed by almost everything germany released after it.

>American strategists never considered armored engagements until it was too late, the war was well under way and shermans were being fed shit by superior german strategic tank doctrine.

Yes that explains why the germans had basically no tanks by the end of the war. Because "call in planes to shoot it" was a bad strategy.

>> No.53702673

>>53702558
>>53702643

Both of you are full of shit.

Because the M4 and the T34 were both good tanks that spearheaded the advance into Germany. They both have their pros and cons when compared to each other, but otherwise they helped end the war decisively.

>> No.53702700

>>53702667
>Because "call in planes to shoot it" was a bad strategy.
Never said that was a bad strategy, it was a great strategy and it clearly works well because america still does it.

Planes bombing german tanks doesn't make the sherman any less of a bad tank though.

In fact it proves that america put less importance on tanks and more importance on combined arms and airpower. This mindset resulted in shitty tanks.

>> No.53702707

>>53702648

Are the coils canonically hot on the outside? I mean besides when it explodes.

>> No.53702709

>>53702673
The M4 was better.

>>53702700
The T-34 was still garbage.

>> No.53702710

>>53702665
>that's not how things work in the grim dark future

Any edition prior to 8th and I might've said "Yeah, okay, fine."

But now we got Chad Marines and other evidence of at least SOME advancement of technology.

You're acting like a sleeker looking tank is a harder task than literally creating a better genetically altered killing machine than the ones they've been using for the last 20,000 years. Or do you just like to be contrarian?

>> No.53702712

>>53702665
>how would that even work? they're crazy because of the psychic aftereffects on their geneseed. remove that and they're just slightly upset marines in black armor
Dubs can just say after 10k years Sangy still hasn't find a way to cure his son because he's too busy being dead.

>> No.53702719

>>53702598
That too.

More importantly, even if you COULD theoretically produce a more efficient tank, even given those parameters, if you already have the infrastructure in place on thousands of planets to produce the current style, and it would take overhauls of all of your production facilities and factories and retooling and calibrating the workshops to produce these new models done by the few experts you have available to oversee this, but these places are constantly under attack to begin with and the steady stream you're churning out is just barely not even holding the line, do you have the luxury to spend the time and resources to make the switch? Well, to even answer that question, you have to go through lightyears of red tape in the most ponderous, monstrously bloated bureaucracy in history, handling diplomatic relationships between the Mechanicus and the Munitorum that may have been signed in blood oaths 15 centuries ago, just navigating that shit alone could take decades and at any moment a critical decision-maker in that process might just die when his ship is flooded by daemons during a routine warp-jump gone wrong.

And that's just scratching the surface. People who criticise the Imperium for not doing things in a perfectly intelligent manner by our current standards do not possess the observational skills to understand the environment they're working with and how different it is from ours.

>> No.53702720

>>53702709
T34 was less garbage than the sherman though.

>> No.53702737

What would happen if an astartes was put through an assinorum temple training?

Why are there no Vindicare/Eversor Astartes?

>> No.53702739

>>53702700
>Never said that was a bad strategy, it was a great strategy and it clearly works well because america still does it.

Probably because tanks shooting other tanks is a misuse of tanks. If you have incredibly thick armor you don't WANT to fight something with the ability to kill you. That defeats the entire purpose of your armor. War isn't about fair fights.

>Planes bombing german tanks doesn't make the sherman any less of a bad tank though.

Except it really does. The Sherman had an actual battlefield role, the Tiger did not. The T34 had the exact same battlefield role except they were all badly made and had significantly worse battlefield performance against german armor than shermans did.

>In fact it proves that america put less importance on tanks and more importance on combined arms and airpower. This mindset resulted in shitty tanks.

No, it resulted in a very good tank. You have no idea what the actual battlefield role of a tank is.

>> No.53702740

>>53702603
Fuck off autist. It looks better than literally every piece of shit rounded-corner pussy-looking tank that's been posted in this thread so far. IG has an established visual identity, they're not going to fuck with that to satisfy your stupid history wank. Go play literally any WW2 tabletop game instead of 40k if it's such an issue for you.

>> No.53702742

>>53702720
No it wasn't, the Russians themselves preferred the M4A2 over the T-34 for being far more survivable and reliable. The 76mm armed ones were better than the ZiS armed T-34's as well.

>> No.53702765

>>53701497
>>53701529

>> No.53702770

>>53702740
OwO What's this???

All GW has to do is TAKE THAT and SCALE IT DOWN.

>> No.53702777

>>53702740
>Fuck off autist. It looks better than literally every piece of shit rounded-corner pussy-looking tank that's been posted in this thread so far.

>>53702506
EXCUSE ME ANON BUT WHERE ARE THE ROUNDED CORNERS ON THIS VASTLY BETTER LOOKING BUT SIMILAR TANK DESIGN

> IG has an established visual identity
That visual identity is "shit". They should develop a new one.

>Go play literally any WW2 tabletop game instead of 40k if it's such an issue for you.
No.

>> No.53702785

>>53702737

Assassinorum operatives are trained from infancy.

>> No.53702786

>>53700080
I wish they were worth taking but sadly no. The cost is too high for a melee unite that moves a wopping 5"

>> No.53702797

>>53702737
it already was in legions.
vindicare- raven guard
culexus- ts
eversor-world eater
callidus- alpha legion

>> No.53702798

>>53702665

>that's not how things work in the grim dark future

Look, Guilliman's back and cracks are forming all around the Imperium. A living demi-God of legend from ten-thousand years ago just stepped back into the picture and started telling people what to do. Primaris Marines became a thing, as did Cawl's own dreaded innovation, Guilliman is rubbing the High Lords wrong, and a whole lot of institutions are chafing under the strain.

Gully even founded his own not!Ordo Historitos to dig up whatever they can from Imperial history so he can get a grasp on the state of 40k. With a whole bunch of new Inquisitors running around with the stated goal of recovering old knowledge from the Imperium's past, it'd be fairly easy for a few to have dug up some filed-away STCs for the Adeptus Mechanicus to put into production. Cawl would probably bring the pressure on to start building them, and the Adeptus Mechanicus would be a step closer to fracture.

>> No.53702800

>>53702786
You have a transport that moves like 80 inches a turn and literally bamfs them onto the battlefield anywhere instantly.

>> No.53702801

>>53702739
History proves you wrong.

The sherman chassis got upgunned precisely because it was lacking. And that still wasn't enough.

What a surprise that immediately after the war ended the tank doctrine the sherman was designed for got abandoned and american tank design started following russian and german.

>> No.53702807

>>53702710
>But now we got Chad Marines and other evidence of at least SOME advancement of technology.
Advancement of Space Marine technology, which was already cutting-edge state of the art shit produced only by very few, particular experts in that field, for a tiny tiny TINY subset of a fraction of a percent of the Imperium's military might. There are less Space Marines in total than there are planets. The AdMech guys devoted to producing their war materials are like not even a blip on the radar compared to the ones who need to keep up production for the Guard, and on top of that the new Marine stuff was produced by a 10.000 year old Tech Priest with so much political power and resources he's making run for position of Fabricator-General, which, prior to there being a Primarch running about, was effectively the most powerful position in the entire fucking Imperium below the Emperor. And Cawl has had literally millennia to work on this shit, too.

>> No.53702823

>>53702785
That has to do with indoctrination though.

An astartes is already a blank slate when he goes through the geneseed process. Just as new astartes get indoctrinated when they're made into superhumans, they could get assassin indoctrination instead.

You don't need to train an astartes from infancy to have the martial skills of an assassin.

>> No.53702835

>>53702807
Kinda this, Mars doesn't give two shits about improving the Leman Russ. It already HAD a better tank, and abandoned it because the Leman Russ was easier to build and use.

>> No.53702851

>>53702823
There's no reason to mix the two methods, Assassinorum Operatives are already strictly superior to Astartes one for one. They are even more modified and post-human.

>> No.53702860

>>53701459
>>53701497
>>53701529
>>53702765

So, related: Does the Land Speeder Storm come with actual Scouts or are they just like the conscripts for the Forgeworld Gorgon (that is: essentially part of the model)?

Also, what's the post/auto-sage limit now?

>> No.53702865

>>53702710
More like
>"A couple million geneticly improved space marines and their equipment from a single cloning facility on Mars that's going to get massively overrepresented in the upcoming fluff is easier than converting thousands of forge worlds to build a new type of tank, supply new tank parts, and train new tank crews while simultaneously supporting the current crop of tanks long enough to phase in the new armor for a military whose strength is somewhere between tens and hundreds of billions, possibly trillions."

My sense of scale kind of dies around Solar Civilization level so god help me, trying to estimate the number of armored fighting vehicles exist in 40k.

>> No.53702868

>>53702797
>training for the anti-psyker assassin was given to the psyker legion
Really makes you think.

>> No.53702871

>>53702807
Oh go fuck yourself and your fluff wank. You probably don't even play Imperial Guard and never will. People like you are exactly why I'm glad GW has changed its own fluff and pissed off autists like you.

Why the hell do Marine players get a shiny new Land Raider and Rhino to play with and we are stuck with shit that came out in SECOND EDITION???

Hell, even your fanatical fluff-wankery doesn't make any sense because Imperial Guard eventually got VALKYRIES when fluff of the past EXPLICITLY STATED that flying machines were too complicated for mere Guardsmen! SHove it up your ass, you're flat out wrong on this one.

>> No.53702875

>>53702860
It comes with modelled on scouts. Not ones with bases, sorry anon.

Auto sage at 310

>> No.53702877

>History proves you wrong.
No. No it really doesn't.

>The sherman chassis got upgunned precisely because it was lacking. And that still wasn't enough.

Sure. And the majority of them were still filled majority with HE shells and spent their entire careers fighting infantry, which was their intended role and one which they excelled at.

Note how we basically lost none of them in the pacific theater.

>What a surprise that immediately after the war ended the tank doctrine the sherman was designed for got abandoned and american tank design started following russian and german.

That doesn't even make sense. American tank doctrine after ww2 was to develop another medium tank for anti infantry combined arms warfare. The Pershing fought some garbo t34's and beat them but it was also much heavier and was kind of shit in that conflict because it was too heavy and kept getting bogged down. Then the patton was just another wonky medium tank.

We didn't develop a new doctrine of armored combat until the m48 which led to the m60 which we made a ton of.

>> No.53702879

>>53702851
A human that goes through assassin training becomes better than an astartes.

An astartes that goes through an assassin training becomes better still.

>> No.53702884

>>53702835
Welcome to the Astra Militarum, where you're worth less than the gear you use!

>> No.53702896

>>53702868
To kill a psyker you must think as psyker

>> No.53702903

>>53702807
>>53702835

You guys are just being contrarian, digging up some fluff you bothered to memorize, and regurgitating it in an effort to look smart. 40k fluff has always been a malleable thing.

>> No.53702928

>>53702879
>An astartes that goes through an assassin training becomes better still.

I've been under the impression that Astartes and Assassin training/modification are two entirely different, mutually-exclusive things. You either do one thing, or the other. One is geared towards taking out individuals. The other one is geared to fight wars.

>> No.53702929

Uploading tanks that look better than the horrifyingly disgusting looking Russ

>> No.53702932

>>53702877
Not that anon. Not taking sides. But this reminds me of those old tank battles on the history channel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrvRUbyui7s

The Sherman and '34 seemed pretty even in Korea.

>> No.53702934

>>53702877
>Note how we basically lost none of them in the pacific theater.
You're joking right? The japs had virtually no tanks at all. Their combat doctrine was a mix of their own goofy honor society history, and outdated western combat doctrine.

Which actually wasn't as awful as it should have been because the amount of islands, jungles, and all around shitty terrain pushed land vehicles to the fringe anyway.

>> No.53702945

>>53702871
y u hef 2 b mad? is only gam.

>> No.53702946

this thread is proof that tanks are gay

>> No.53702952

>>53702871
I do play guard, faggot, and I'm perfectly happy with my tanks thank you. If you don't like them you can go play a different game and stop shitting up our board with whining.

The IG is not supposed to have cutting edge tech. When you're playing guard you're not the future space version of the American military or the Germans, you're the Iraqi defense forces that were trained by the Americans and have shitty decades-old tech from previous wars just barely better than the ISIS niggers (Orks) that are raiding you, because you live in a fucking warzone and your soldiers are indoctrinated peasants.

>> No.53702953

>>53702929

>> No.53702959

>>53702946
you are the one who is gay

>> No.53702972

>>53702875

Oh well. What's the /tg/ approved 8E way to equip scouts?

>> No.53702974

>>53702929
>>53702953

>> No.53702982

>>53702879
No, that's not how it works you idiot. You don't start out as Astartes, all Astartes were human to begin with.

A human who goes through Astartes training and takes the geneseed modification becomes Astartes. A human who goes through Assassinorum training and takes the Temple modifications becomes better than Astartes. You cannot do one and then the other, they aren't compatible.

>> No.53702984

>>53702959
i don't play tanks though

>> No.53702991

Anyone know how Bolt-Action tanks compare to 40k vehicles in scale?

I'd replace all my Russes in a heartbeat with T34s

>> No.53702994

>>53702974
>>53702929
>>53702953

>> No.53702998

>>53702871

Another anon chiming in-

It was also explicitly stated that the Skitarii and forces of the AdMech were only ever kept around for defense, because the AdMech committing forces to its own interest would have been too threatening for the Imperium. Now Skitarii have been out and about since Mars got brought into the Imperium's fold.

The Custodes also used to never leave Terra, but suddenly they've gone on a number of super-secret missions and now they're deploying en masse to get things done. And Sisters of Silence supposedly died out shortly after the Emperor's death.

Essentially, fluff is a slave to one thing and one thing only: selling miniatures. Fluff follows the pretty injection molded plastic models. Custodes and SoS got new fluff because they got new models and GW wanted to sell them to make money. Primaris Marines are new and have fluff precedent because the same old stuff is sometimes a recipe for a stagnant market.

>> No.53703004

>>53702959
>>53702946
I'm just saying that I'd probably fuck a tank.

>> No.53703008

>>53702903
... Look, I get that you feel strongly about this, but you seem weirdly upset about people disagreeing with you. Mentioning that the Malcador exists is hardly contrarian.

>> No.53703009

>>53702953
>>53702994

What tank is this? Or is it a conversion?

>> No.53703013

>>53702994
>>53702974
>>53702929
>>53702953

>> No.53703023

>>53702610
Mercifully without the whole 'crew must exit the tank to manually load a new shell while being shot at' part.

>> No.53703027

>>53702991
Why would you replace them with those garbage tanks? At least go for a KV series if you want something similar in size, or an IS series.

>>53703009
Converted Malcador with FW Russ turret.

>> No.53703030

>>53702932
>The Sherman and '34 seemed pretty even in Korea.

They were basically the same tank. The sherman mostly had better technology and the crews were better so its ratio is better, but both could kill eachother frontally from the same distances and went the same speed. Both had also received plenty of ugprades by that time period.

>> No.53703034

>>53702952
>The IG is not supposed to have cutting edge tech.

O RLY?

Hell I'm not asking for Astartes tech but at least something that looks a step up from something a 5-year old slapped together.

I bet your ass got severely chaffed when you heard Baneblades were going to be a thing.

>> No.53703035

>>53702991

I'm thinking of adding some IG to my Space Marine army, so I'm curious about this as well.

>> No.53703045

>>53702929

>> No.53703063

>>53702982
>they aren't compatible
>[citation needed]

In support of my point, go look at Eversors and Vindicare's.

How different to they look from regular humans?

Not much at all. So clearly, whatever modifications they receive are to improve musculature, reflexes, toughness etc. Things that astartes already have.

And obviously assassin training, which again, no reason astartes can't learn to be assassins. Many have undergone assassin training of their own in-chapter as part of their duty as scouts, etc. Like Telion.

>> No.53703069

>>53703004
tank barrel = big benis

gayboi

>> No.53703075

>>53702998
Thank you Anon. I'm the guy you're responding to. And I'm going to save this post because this isn't the first time I've gotten into this exact same argument of "The Leman Russ can never ever ever have an updated model because reasons."

>> No.53703085

>>53702934
>You're joking right? The japs had virtually no tanks at all.

AND THE ENTIRE POINT OF A TANK IS TO BE UNNOPPOSED YOU FUCKING MONG

>Their combat doctrine was a mix of their own goofy honor society history, and outdated western combat doctrine.

Actually they did have tanks, they just used most of their metal on their fleet and used a whole bunch of concrete on bunkers for island defense. You're a shit historian.

>Which actually wasn't as awful as it should have been because the amount of islands, jungles, and all around shitty terrain pushed land vehicles to the fringe anyway.

Wow, what an incorrect thing to say. We sent plenty of tanks to the pacific theater, they're great for clearing emplacements.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_4_Chi-To
Here's the Japanese tank developed to counter the m4 by the way

>> No.53703095

>>53703009
I'm not sure but I'm pretty sure they are converted.

>>53703027
Well there ya go.

>>53703045
Delicious chaos, and with the new faction rules it's easier than ever to take and imperial predator in the guard.

>> No.53703109

>>53702334
>>Emperor, you have to sit on this throne or everyone is going to get killed
>>I wanna go do hoodrat stuff with my friends
kek.

>> No.53703111

>>53702998
>implying that changing times and circumstances can't result in armed forces performing different tasks.

You mean like how US Marines went from being a maritime force deployed by boat to beach heads and islands.

To being shock troops deploying from helicopters and sent into the fight before the army is?

What is the US Navy selling for this fluff change?

>> No.53703116

>>53703045
That's a Chaos Predator, so IG will never have it.

>> No.53703131

>>53703116
RENEGADES

>> No.53703135

>>53703085
>All those strawmen
Never said japs didn't have tanks
Never said america never used tanks.

You're floundering M8, you're at the point where you know you can't prove me wrong, so you're twisting my words to create entirely different arguments.

>> No.53703136

>>53703085
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BK_jQERqLzU

>Oh god this early 2000's CGI is so cheesy
Man I miss the old History Channel!

>> No.53703146

I keep trying to build pure marine lists and it's pointless.

Marine shit just costs too much. Power armor's effectiveness has been greatly decreased by the new AP system, while the armor of guard is much better against small arms than it used to be. I keep trying to make lists with devastators and then see guard heavy weapon squads bringing 12 point per model heavy bolters vs 23 point per model devastator heavy bolters.

I want to run a pure marine force but end up putting in guard infantry, guard tanks, guard heavy weapons because it's just so much more efficient to do that, basically just using marines for elites, fast attack, and HQs. Guard just vastly outperform point for point in most roles.

>> No.53703161

>guard get shit tier tanks
>not allowed to have the predator/rhino chassis

>guard gets fucking amazing giant doom walkers
>astartes aren't allowed to have knights or titans.

neat

>> No.53703162

>>53703111
>To being shock troops deploying from helicopters and sent into the fight before the army is?
>What is the US Navy selling for this fluff change?

You mean Boeing. And that would be helicopters.

>> No.53703164

>>53703131
Still won't have it. CSM don't give crap about humans.

>> No.53703178

>>53703164
They share <Chaos> faction keyword as IG and loyal SM share <Imperium>

>> No.53703182

>>53703146
So go Guard with some Marines as augmentation.

>> No.53703184

>>53702929
My favorite has always been this tiny baneblade.

It's basically just photoshop and a trick of light, but a small baneblade would be PERFECT.

>> No.53703211

How many spare parts are in a chaos spawn kit? Anyone got an idea? I'm considering picking up a box of Ogors and I'm wondering how many of those i could turn into spawn with the leftovers from two boxes of chaos spawn.

>> No.53703212

>>53703146
Surely not! I know for a fact the predator wrecks both the battle tank/lascannon and vanquisher/lascannon combos from beyond demolisher range for far less points. That can be your space marine AT right there!

>> No.53703213

>>53703146
Whats about csm?

>> No.53703218

>>53702929
>>53703184

>> No.53703220

>>53703063

Astartes would be hard to mix with an Eversor. Eversors are in a perpetual, unstable mix of chemicals and if they die they lose control and burst in a small but powerful explosion. An Eversor combined with Astartes physiology would be a very bizarre creature and likely one that'd fail one way or the other: either its Eversor implants and modifications fail, or its Astartes geneseed die.

Or it becomes a horrible abomination because sometimes mixing two complex systems and structures results in not exactly a sum of both parts because these systems have cross-interaction. It's why they tell you not to take some drugs at the same time as other drugs because they might one or both do something that neither should do alone. And when you put superhuman biomeds in with exploding super assassin biomeds, you might just end up with a big mess on your laboratory table and a whole lot of lost grant money.

>>53703111

The changing methods of war necessitated changing methods of force deployment. Back in WWII, ships still fought ships. Also helicopters didn't exist. The US Navy didn't change, the edition did and the next US Navy Codex was built on that edition's mechanics, and fluff followed suit.

>> No.53703227

>>53703184
>>53703218
I can dig it

>> No.53703228

>>53701529
Anon you can do it because you build armies from faction keywords and imperium is a faction keyword.

>> No.53703240

>>53703146
And yes, you can try to argue that power armor is stronger now because of formerly AP3 and AP2 weapons being -2 and -3, but before you would constantly have 5+ cover saves so it's effectively the same, but there's a glut of -1 armor save guns that are dropping marines to 4+, but we're still paying 13 points per model for what others are paying 8 or 9.

Predators cost too much, the main saving grace is how efficient razorbacks are.

>>53703182
Sure, but I have a Marine collection, not a Guard one. I just have a handful of guard tanks and infantry squads, most of my army is marines. I don't want to buy a new army.

>>53703212
Define far less points. It's 172 if you give a predator a TL lascannon and heavy bolters, 202 for Annihilator.

>> No.53703252

>>53703220
>The changing methods of war necessitated changing methods of force deployment.
Which is why the custodes is out in force and the sisters of silence have re-appeared.

>> No.53703254

>>53702929
>>53703218
>>53703184

I guess someone went ahead and fully built one. Looks a hell of a lot better than the garbage GW sells.

>> No.53703287

>>53703254
Give me that guy's address. I want to buy a whole army's worth.

>> No.53703289

>>53702946
I hope there's not too much proof of how gay I am for tanks.

>> No.53703294

>>53702929

Looks kind of similar to maxmini's tank.

>> No.53703306

>>53703294
That looks even more retarded than the leman russ.

The KV design was never a good looking one.

>> No.53703322

>>53703306
It wasn't half bad looking without the refrigerator turret.

>> No.53703325

>>53703306
>>The KV-2 design was never a good one.
FTFY.

>>53703294
Nice gothic ork spotting tower.

>> No.53703329

>>53703306

The conversion it's replying to is much better. I do dig the Metal Slug vibe I'm getting from it.

Although if you dig that, there is a Metal Slug model kit.

>> No.53703338

>>53703254
Almost forgot to post this one

>>53703294
Beat me to it!

>>53703306
Nah it looks way better, especially since it looks like a rolling church witch fits perfectly with warhammer's insane fluff.

>> No.53703345

>>53703252
no, that happened because they'd already made models.
Anon was right about that.

However, it's not fluff rape, as the change in fluff fits, as you and other anon point out.

Also, the IG do get new models, sometimes repressenting new tech. But fluff wise they get them last because they need the most mass produceable stuff.

Also, the Russ looks fine. The guard ascetic is blocky and mass produced.

>> No.53703346

Razorback with TL assault cannon and storm bolter: 102 points, 12 S6 Ap-1 shots and 4 bolter shots on a T7 W10 tank

Devastator squad with 4 heavy bolters: 105 points, 12 S5 Ap-1 shots and 2 bolter shots on marine bodies, 3 of those shots are at BS 2+ until you take your first casualty and let the sergeant die to keep your guns going.

>> No.53703350

Did Kill Team survive this transition to 8th Edition?

I would love to talk the lads into getting back into this and we all make small skirmish lists.

>> No.53703361

>There will never be a Battlefield 2142 walker model that I can use as a Knight
why live?

>> No.53703365

>>53703346
Oh and this is also ignoring the fact that the razorback is speed 12 and can carry infantry.

>> No.53703370

>>53703350

No new version of Kill Team, yet.

However, Shadow War: Armageddon seems to have usurped its place, at least for now. It plays a lot like Necromunda did.

>> No.53703376

>>53703085
jap light tanks get laughed at a lot but they were perfect for island warfare and jungle warfare.

they just got fucking wrecked everytime they faced a sherman.

>> No.53703377

>>53703294
Because the design originates in fucking 40k (I mean, applying the KV2 to 40k setting.) Maxmini built it to fill the role of a model IG players never received since epic.

>> No.53703378

>>53703338
half the shit you've been posting looks worse than the Russ.
And all of it would be a massive increase in cost. You know it to be true.

Give me the tanks I can get 6 of without having to skimp on food.

>> No.53703382

>>53703377

I know as much. It's meant to emulate the Ragnarock tank that never got a model.

>> No.53703385

>>53699792
Over the heart where it belongs.

>> No.53703390

>>53703370
>Shadow War: Armageddon
Interesting, i'll check it out. Thanks Anon.

>> No.53703397

>tfw assault cannon lost rend
>but sniper rifles didn't

>> No.53703398

>>53703390

I has a consistent general, so you might be able to find it.

>>
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