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[ERROR] No.53610975 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Previous thread: >>53597257

>Pastebin:
https://pastebin.com/7HiVphFm

>News
http://theonyxpath.com/release-roundup-may-2017-plus-new-nook-store/
https://www.paradoxinteractive.com/en/white-wolf-partners-with-focus-home-interactive-for-a-video-game-adaptation-of-the-world-of-darkness-storyteller-game-werewolf-the-apocalypse/

This week's Monday Meeting Notes:
http://theonyxpath.com/memorial-day-nonnotes-monday-meeting-notes/

>5th editons cliffnotes
https://pastebin.com/cp0r59da

>Question:
What was an ultimate goal for your character that was actually achieved at some point in the chronicle you played?

>> No.53611399

Alternate Question : Beyond the obvious, how would you fix Beast?

The obvious being not pandering to Tumblrites 24/7/365, making the Hero/Beast dichotomy morally grey, and having the rules re-written by someone who actually understands how to make good mechanics in CofD

Personally, I would make the Insatiables the primary antagonists. I'd use Jacob from OPP's "Beast Sagacious" as an optional win-state.

When it comes to Beasts and Heroes, the players should be asking themselves "Who's the wolf and who's the shepherd?" on a regular basis.

>>53610975

Using Mind, Life, and Dimensional Science, my Progenitor managed to create an Anti-Caul that would reverse a Nephandi's quantum psychic state.

Granted, it had some side effects (Loss of Qlippothic Spheres, took a while to work even if the subject volunteered) But Project: Invictus now has a powerful new tool in it's battle to save the Union.

>> No.53611610

As I said last thread, I'm altering Wisdom to make it something that you only lose for abusing magic. (this includes stuff like human sacrifice and preventing an awakening)

However, traumatic occurrences and terrible acts can still cause a mage to gain conditions. While a mage is the master of their own soul, their psyche is somewhat less inviolate.

Not sure how I'll model that. Perhaps their Wisdom is a bulwark against such conditions, making people with high wisdom capable of being both serene and terrible.

>> No.53611794

>>53611399
For Beast I agree with all your points. Mechanically I'd make it more like Demon with some WW elements thrown in, activating your Atavisms / Horror should be more like Going Loud / Gauru Form then some mostly boring minor abilities.
Granted they need a Gift / Embeds equiv but if I'm manifesting a Dragons soul to wreck shit I want it to be more impressive then a few points of damage.

>> No.53611923

>>53611399
I'd add a "true form" like the DtD demon form, with a form of pseudo-lunacy in bystanders.
The lessons should be just the pov of a sect of Beasts (like the LeS of Requiem).

>> No.53612313

More leaked gameplay footage from the upcoming CoD vidya
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgmiBjJFOSA

>> No.53613576

>>53611399
Drop fammily dinner and crossover mechanics. Maybe use Wraith the Oblivion idea and give hero and beast wraith-his specter dynamic?

>> No.53613892

>>53611399
I'd change the origin of Insatiables, they'd be created the same was as Begotten only the reawakening of their primordial souls or whathavayou broke them. I'd bring back the first draft version of Beasts too, where you were always a cosmic horror not some angsty teen that's given superpowers by your 2kewl new family.

>> No.53614162

>>TODAY’S REASON TO CELEBRATE: Not so much “celebrate”, but certainly we commemorate today all of those who gave their lives in service to their countries.

Why does Rich want to commemorate ISIS or Nazi soldiers? This is fucked up.

>> No.53614257

>>53614162

>> No.53614297

>>53612313
lets see, vampire, vampire, Promethean, vampire and changeling?

>> No.53614325

>>53611794
>>53611923

I like how the solutions to making Beast better are "Make it Demon".

Also, >>53611399 , fuck you, Lairs are great.

>> No.53614399

>>53614325
Demon was the best original idea OPP had by far.

>> No.53614451

>>53614162
It's an old ideal but once upon a time we acknowledged the courage of those who fought and died for what they believe in, even if they were our enemies.

I can acknowledge the SS for example where an elite fighting force without screaming WHITE POWER!!!!!!!!!!!!! at the top of my lungs.

>> No.53614527

>>53614451
But this is fucked up.

>> No.53614569

>>53614527
Don't dehumanize your enemy. He isn't an 'other', he is a person with which we disagree and generally brought violence to us first.

>> No.53615007

So on the topic of Demon and how good it is, anyone got more fiction recommendations that fit the theme of it? The stuff in the books is good but I've seen most of it already.

>> No.53615146

>>53615007
We are talking about DtD right? Two things that come to my mind are Man from UNCLE with is a great spy movie and Blindsight sf book by Peter Wats. It asks a lot of questions about sentience, intelligence and identity but it is also quite bleak

>> No.53615240

>>53614569
This kind of talk is fucked up talk for people who don't know right from wrong. Onyx Path is glorifying evil, that's what it is. I think I'm done with their games.

>> No.53615406

>>53614162
ISIS is not a country tho

>> No.53615446

>>53614162
>>53615240
I feel like this is the same anon that got mad triggered at the Uber thread the other day.

>> No.53615478

>>53615446
What happened in the uber thread?

>> No.53615504

>>53615478
Some anon was sperging out about how terrible it is for a comic to depict Nazis because Nazis are bad.

>> No.53615627

>>53612313
kek

>> No.53615658

>>53612313
Mister I see you and rise you Seers of the Throne
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOtMizMQ6oM

>> No.53615729

>>53615658
I see that and raise you this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2PoSljk8cE

>> No.53615793

>>53615729
Splendid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9MuEA2eF8c

>> No.53615846

>>53615793
some needs to just totaly derail their serious campaigne by pulling something like htis

>> No.53615943

>>53615406
Well Rich is also commemorating the fucks who crashed the plane on 9/11 for their country. Lost anyone then? Not comfortable at all.

>> No.53616100

>>53615943
You know, your life would be so much better if you weren't always looking for ways to be ass ravaged.

>> No.53616139

>>53616100
He has to be trolling. We wouldn't survive being this close to body of such density

>> No.53616176

Is it just me, or was last thread somehow unusual? I can't really explain it.

>> No.53616211

>>53615846
Well if someone in playgroup can pull of Christopher Lee-like voice then his group probably doesn't deserve him

>> No.53616250

I have a question about the books. If I am running just a Hunter: The Vigil game, am I supposed to use the base world of darkness book as well (and by extension the God Machine update) when having my players create characters for the campaign? The god machine update makes it seem way to easy to get OP at the beginning of my campaign.

>> No.53616290

>>53616250
What options do you think are OP?

>> No.53616304

>>53616176
A bunch of people were saying random shit and us Ascension fags decided refight the Ascension war.

>>53615658
>>53615729
>>53615793
The last song you'll ever need for the Giovanni and the seers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Plcogp1zxao

>> No.53616309

>>53616290
Not exactly OP but the extreme reduced cost of merits and skills causes my players to go retard broken like *that*
My question is, do I run out of the book H:TV explicitly?

>> No.53616329

>>53616176
It was us bitching and moaning about an aspect of oWoD. Seems par for the course.

>> No.53616364

>>53616211
I was thinking more that as a bunch of hunters you have this whole plot arc that the vampires and planning something with all the other major supernatural movers and shakers and gathering all this weird exotic stuff, and they hunter go to all this effort to get invites to the event only for it to be a really kick ass party.

>> No.53616371

>>53616309
Well HtV is 1ed so I guess you should probably skip 2ed material and wait for hunter core to get updated. This would help you avoid weird mixups in mechanics

>> No.53616395

>>53616371
So I would run the character mechanics such as Merits, Skills, Attributes and compacts and conspiracies from HTV 1e only? No bringing in base WoD or God Machine Chronicle?

>> No.53616400

>>53616304
But we could use some Void Engineers with delicious cheese
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGV6bCTMM5w

>> No.53616438

>>53616395
No no. Nwod core for 1ed is your firend as well as other 1ed supplements like Inferno. God Machine Chronicle I would skip for now since its 2ed update

>> No.53616537

>>53616438
Got it! Thanks buddy!

>> No.53616714

>>53616364
>Foolish mortals! For crashing this party you have earned enimity of both kindred and awakened! You will now watch us eat this cake! That we will not share!

>>53616537
If you take a look at megabin in ops post everything in Hunter the Vigil and World of Darkness directories is 1ed as far as I know

>> No.53616794

>>53616714
It's not working for me right now. I have all of the books, just at my house. At library right now, not sure if school wifi is blocking using it.

>> No.53616801

>>53616714
except that had gotten invites so it be more like
>nice hunter costumes guys, have some cake and bach is Djing

>> No.53616823

>>53616794
>>53616714
Never mind its working. Is tooth and nail in it? Want to look at the new Compacts and Conspiracies.

>> No.53616889

What if I want to use a 1e bloodline for 2e? Will we receive an update at some point?

>> No.53616895

>>53616801
>I particularly enjoy that leather trenchcoat and katana. Sunglasses at night...classy

>>53616794
One more book you could use is Wicked Dead from VtR line as it gives you some additional bestiary that should be within range of 1ed hunters

>> No.53616945

>>53616889
Thus far only 2ed bloodlines are Neglatu, Khaibit and Kerberos and I haven't seen any info about possible update. Thou there are always homeupdates on OPP forums

>> No.53617134

>>53616895
Good Idea. My idea is to do a midwestern snowtown in the 80's riddled with Vampires blending into society. I want my players to be aware of the supernatural and dealing with it cold war style rooting out evil and deal with consequences of the world around them. Fargo meets Salems Lot if you will.

>> No.53617275

>>53617134
That sounds like a nice set up. Thou small town in the middle of nowhere can probably support one or two vampires tops and they would guard their "domain" fiercely

>> No.53617370

>>53617275
Well I want a plot similar to Salems Lot involving supernatural creatures slowly overtaking an area. Is there another species that would make more sense or should I give up the Salems Lot Angle?

>> No.53617483

>>53616176
People assume that humans would be giving into their inhibitions (thanks to the dark magic); rampant violence, sex, drugs (how did those get there?).

>> No.53617512

>>53617370
Hosts from werewolf the forsaken are something you can take a look at.

From vampire angle I propose.
>Elder/ancilae traveling around midwest since 1st wave of the settlers. Staying for few years in each town and leaving before people start asking questions. Players could piece together his identity by reading old newspapers and documents

>Draugr(0 humanity vampire) racking up body count in nearby wilderness. This of course are pined on bears or wolfs but some bodies dissapear. Could be that he is creating his own pack of larvae(vampire-zombies with pack hunter mentality)

>> No.53617738

>>53617370
Every little town on the fringes of society needs a crazy cat lady.

A crazy cat lady that also happens to be a mage.

>> No.53617756

>>53617738
Promethean maybe?

>> No.53617761

I'm thinking of preventing my Mage players from getting 4-5 dot Practices in order to accumulate a more balanced play in my crossover game.

Is this wrong or am I doing something good?

>> No.53617784

>>53617756
A Promethean would make for an interesting drifter.

Never staying for too long, yadda yadda.

>> No.53617817

>>53617761
Depends, which other splats are you allowing?

If its a game with Demons or Mummies in it, you're wasting your time.

If you're running a Mage/Vampire/Werewolf game, its mostly a token gesture, but there's nothing wrong with it.

>> No.53617835

>>53617784
That works but also one could make ulgan witch living in the dark forest outside of town(forest is super creepy due to disquiet seeping in over time)

>> No.53617877

>>53617761
>preventing mages from being the superior species

You wretch

>> No.53618008

Can you guys post WoD related headers to put in my play by post RP?

>> No.53618014

>>53616895
So the vampires are organizing the party werewolfs are prob bouncing mages send out invited what is everyone elses jobs

>> No.53618053

>>53618014
Demon alters his form to become one-demon jazz big band.

>> No.53618100

>>53618053
Beasts and prometheans not invited

>> No.53618135

>>53618100
Promethean can stand in the smokers zone and still gets the cake. Beast thou I agree

>> No.53618310

How are the V20 books?

>> No.53618371

>>53617761
You can ruin peoples day w/ 2 dot practices.

>> No.53618436

A daily reminder that MiBfags always talk as if soley attributing the invention of public schooling, office supplies and toilet paper to the technocrats.

>> No.53618442

>>53618014
Mages also supply the narcotics, silly.

>> No.53618456

>>53618436
Are you still buttmad from last thread?

>> No.53618645

>>53617761
Mages won't stop over everything if you properly do your job as an ST.

>> No.53618654

I heard that the second edition of C:tL received mixed reactions.
What are the problems?

>> No.53618669

>>53618436
Traditions like the Verbena want to knock us back to the Stone Ages and the Order of Hermes are vying to take over the world and rule over the muggles with an iron fist. Seeing that their fellow wizards were grinding the common people under heel, the Daedalans of the Order of Reason formed out of the Awakened mages who weren't total asshats, and, on behalf of God and the greater good, they began to create a new form of magic that anyone could use. It was a roaring success, and it quickly became so popular, yet they're somehow 'the baddies'?

>Traditions: "Hurr-durr! Boring urban developments and soulless industrial complexes!!"
It's just a plot to deindustralize the West as a means of transferring wealth to the third world, as part of the great equalization that will result in a borderless, raceless world.

>> No.53618710

Red pill me on the Traditions. How are they a better alternative for sleepers than the Technocratic paradigm? Why wouldn't a reformed Union be the best option for sleepers?

>> No.53618741

>>53618669
>They began to create a new form of magic that anyone could use

This is the case for all Paradigms, the Union just took it to another level in production. A normie could still use a flying carpet in a wizard dominated world.

>> No.53618808

>>53618741
A sleeper can't build a flying carpet like they can a plane.

>> No.53618838

>>53618808
That's what I mean by production. The Technocratic Paradigm is easily accessible and replicated.

>> No.53618884

>>53618741
>>53618669
>>53618710
The Order of Reason's original innovation was the discovery of a few principles. The first was the mass-production of a form of sorcery that could be used by anyone, vastly improving the quality of life. The second was the outright banishment from the world of most of the horrors they could find. The third was the rendering of the world rational, comprehensible, and predictable. And the last, was they were the first to apply [though not necessarily discover] the ideas of Consensual Reality on a mass scale.

This allowed them to create a world that was all around better for the average Sleeper then anything the Traditions had done up until that point. However, they became corrupted. The modern Technocracy is a cloistered society centered around ancient old men obsessed with the minutiae of cosmic lore whose primary goal is controlling the Sleepers. In short, they've become the Order of Hermes at its worst, and they are totally blind to it.

Not only that, but their paradigm's insistence on One Truth One World One Reality, if followed through to its logical conclusion, demands that all people believe the same things on everything. There will be no room for other paradigms or even other opinions in the Technocratic end-game, the universe itself could sputter to a stop as a result of rampant fossilization.

If humanity is to survive, the Technocracy MUST be stopped, or it must be reformed. Either is an option that could be taken. The problem with a Tradition victory is that there really is no "Tradition" victory. If the Technocracy falls the Council of Nine may shatter completely as the individual factions try and enforce their paradigm in the wake of collapse. Billions could die as industrial farming just stops working when the masses stop believing in it.

[cont]

>> No.53618931

>>53618884
In order for a true Council victory to emerge, the Traditions would have to stick together and, in the wake of Technocratic defeat, present a semi-unified pan-magical paradigm to the world that still incorporates enough resources to guarantee human survival.

Of course this is only if you're not willing to get your hands dirty. You could go full Gilgamesh and just kill off most of Mankind, send us reeling back to the Mythic Age [with gusto] and then pick up the pieces after. The Sleepers are not the most important part of reality.

>> No.53618981

>>53618884

I don't get how people think technology has to be erased for the Trads to win. Except maybe the Verbena.

>> No.53619038

>>53618808
Wait a minute. If the world is ruled by a magical paradigm, depending on what that entailed specifically, then people could build them. Much like how aeroplanes would not have worked in the Dark Ages.

Long ago with the power of True Faith, this would have worked!

In Order to Prevent a Dog from Barking: Say three times, watching the dog, and lifting your hat straightforwardly:

"The Barbarian Arc, the heart is split and the tail is hung, the key of St. Peter doses your throat until tomorrow."

Compare Egyptian Secrets. Speak the following: Thus did it happen, on a Friday it was, when our Lord God rode over a field of grass, he carried neither money nor purse with him; for he owned naught but his five holy wounds. May God protect us against wolves, dog; and hounds, he gave to St. Peter the keys for the locks, wherewith to dose the jaws of wolves and of dog. In the name of †††

>> No.53619050

>>53618981
Hermetics and Verbena are filthy hippies, that's why.

>> No.53619058

>>53618981
Technology isn't real. It is merely the application of principles of the Technocratic Consensus. The only reason things like electricity and alternating current and wi-fi exists is because the universe we live in runs on those principles.

IF their is a paradigm shift, and people's views turn away from those principles, the technology that runs on them will also cease to exist. We'll have to invent new technology that runs on the new principles of the new dominating paradigm.

In the meanwhile, billions could starve. Humanity suddenly deciding the Platonic Forms , Angels, and Ether are real instead of evolution and antibiotics doesn't just change a few things, it uproots the carefully controlled foundation of mortal tech, that rests on the enforced technocratic paradigm.

Of course the presence of the Etherites on the Council means that if a unified Council existed post-Technocracy, science and tech of some form would be incorporated into the new paradigm, and the Hermetics may even be convinced to begin mass-schooling sleepers in linear magic, but the question is in that transition period, just how many people are going to die for that world?

>> No.53619095

>>53619038
That was true in the Mythic Age. Good luck charms, prayers to ward off evil, and basic alchemy all worked for Sleepers.

The problem was this concept was never really industrialized and mass produced until the Order of Reason came along.

The new Mythic Age would surely have its OWN forms of mass produced sorcery and consistent applications of Consensual Reality. The discoveries of the Technocracy and the principles they used to rise to prominence WILL still exist in the year 2500 AD and WILL be used by whatever paradigm is in charge then, mystick, scientific, or both.

>> No.53619125

>>53619038
>What Hermetics actually want.

>>53619058
>There are people who actually believe in WiFi when this shit was clearly not arround untill the late 90s.
Shiggy Diggy Doo, I Seriously Hope You Guys Don't Do This.

>> No.53619348

>>53619050
You do know that the hermetics have a technomantic house, right?

...oh, wait. You're that guy who projects his real world beliefs onto an RPG about wizards.

>> No.53619349

When the Technocrats try to explain their so-called electromagnetism interaction nonsense in terms of 'photon exchange', what they are really doing is making more vicious lies to strengthen the hold of their consensus. And the worst part is how easily they can redraft it! They can even rewrite history!

>> No.53619367

>>53619058

So people can't just believe both are true? Clearly, they "know" these things work and won't stop believing them just because wizards are now a thing.

>> No.53619368

>>53619348
I wasn't posting that time.

>> No.53619410

>>53619367
The masses believe in a paradigm that is contrary to every other mystick paradigm. They would need to believe in a new paradigm that incorporated elements from both.

>> No.53619480

>>53619050
Hermetics aren't hippies. They approach magick in a scientific manner.

>> No.53619513

>>53619480
>>53619348
No, they approach it in a quasi-rational manner. There is a difference.

House Thig doesn't use Science, it uses the Platonic Forms of technology to create magitek. Again, there is a difference.

They aren't hippies, but they aren't scientists either. They are willworkers, and their knowledge is as much about rational apprehension and intuition as it is about empirical observation.

>> No.53619598

>>53619410

People accept contradictions every day, especially people who beilieve in magic IRL

>> No.53619622

>>53619367
People would have different ways of coping, but people have ways of dealing with it nonetheless. I for one would, in all honesty, turn into a gibbering, hapless wreck.

>>53619480
>Hermetics aren't hippies.
As the resident T.A. (TechnoAsshat), I'm obliged to have to agree with you there. The guy saying so is being uncharitably disingenuous.

>>53619410
>They would need to believe in a new paradigm that incorporated elements from both.
Introduce them into occult traditions that actually work, ala, the minor magics; rites, rituals, spells and talismans, often of folk traditions that still work. They work because those magics ARE reality. Those folk traditions and practices have historical inertia that consensus has not been able to quite stamp out. They are as much a part of reality as the Other Realms and the monsters threatening to wreck havoc on our world.

>> No.53619628

>>53619598
The universe however does not.

>> No.53619680

>>53619513
Science represents all. The Hermetics approach it in a scientific manner in contrast to the Union's own personal sciences.

If it exists, it is a science.

>> No.53619705

>>53619680
No, it doesn't. Science is not a generic word for "Things that are true", it refers to a specific methodology for learning about the world through the process of empiricism and experiment.

If a Hermetic intuits a cosmic truth through sacred rite, he is being RATIONAL, assuming the truth in question is self-consistent and true, but he is being rational in a mathematical, not a scientific fashion.

Which isn't to say the Hermetics don't practice some sciences, astrology, alchemy, etc are all at least partially scientific, but many of their Arts are not so.

>> No.53619706

>>53619513
I think you're confusing science with technology.

Hermetics have a "cause and effect" Paradigm similar to the Technocracy. Both go about much differently. This has been a concept since first edition.

>> No.53619723

>>53619705
Oh god you're the idiot from the previous thread.

Yeah, you can fuck right off.

>> No.53619746

>>53619705
lol

Science corresponds to Paradigm. If the whole world was defined by Hermetic beliefs, there would be another word for it. Hermetics are as scientific as the Union in their own way.

>> No.53619750

>>53619723
I have no idea what you're talking about. Who am I supposed to be?
>>53619706
That does not make their paradigm scientific, or at least, it doesn't make it entirely scientific.

>> No.53619788

>>53619750
>That does not make their paradigm scientific, or at least, it doesn't make it entirely scientific.

Science, technology, magic and miracles are all technically the same thing in Ascension.
Hermetics have always treated magic as a scientific endeavor in contrast to modern methods.

If you want magic as something entirely unscientific, go play Awakening.
Or just play a more primal Tradition that doesn't view it as such.

>> No.53619798

>>53619746
Didnt the technocracy win the ascension war, what happened then?

>> No.53619830

>>53619798
Nobody won. Though the Union is obviously on the winning edge.

>> No.53619858

>>53619830
The nephandi are the ones that are winning

>> No.53619866

>>53619705
>but many of their Arts are not so.
I know what you mean. They had a sterile tradition of writing and reading books that were wholly removed from experience. (These speculations are also to blame for the fact that the seeds of a free Chinese natural science, which undoubtedly existed at the time of Mo Ti and his pupils, were killed, and replaced by this stagnation.) You get such fine traditions as mechanistic number mysticism, and such works as From Medical Astrology to Medical Astronomy: Sol-Lunar and Planetary Theories of Disease in British Medicine, c.1700–1850.

They're still fun to read. And Meme magic works.

>> No.53619869

>>53619788
>>53619750
>>53619706
>>53619705
Why the fuck are you all arguing about the delusions and delusional terms that autistic reality-warpers stupidly use. None of these terms matter and the cosplaying, prop-using retards should all be pitied.

>> No.53619887

>>53619788
Just because Science, Magic, and Faith all are manifestations of the same basic principles of Consensual Reality doesn't make them roughly equivalent to each other.

A Technocrat who builds a device is not practicing religious faith, and a Hermetic who practices the Art is not, generally speaking, doing science. This is the entire reason its called the Art in the first place, because in the Hermetic Tradition, magick is first and foremost the use of Will.

To the average Technocrat, his Enlightened Science is functioning on principles external to himself and the machinery he builds is simply an application of those principles. It is technology, that exists and runs, in theory, regardless of if anyone happens to believe in it.

The Hermetic Arts only work for the enlightened, and even in the ancient Mythic Age, astrology and alchemy and especially theurgy and goetia and elementalism were not viewed as independent of the Magus, but as manifestations of his Will.

A Hermetic works magick by creating a symbolic pathway from his Will to Reality, effecting a change. For instance the concept of Fire is linked to certain colors, emotions, angels, gods, etc, and thus a spell to summon fire would be formed through a symbolic pathway, a conduit, formed of many of those symbols.

Its based on a view of the world that incorporates mystical concepts such as the Platonic Forms, Spiritual Beings, and Higher Worlds.

Astrology and Alchemy can be understood as sciences, of a sort, but a spell that works through sheer willworking and the aid of celestial agents is not a scientific process by any definition of the word!

>> No.53619903

>>53619869
Maybe because it might lead to a discussion about the continued belief in witchcraft and the activities of cunning-folk during the eighteenth century.

>> No.53619912

why does this general always devolves into mage is better than everything else and my mage flavor is better than yours

>> No.53619929

>>53619887
You're trying way too hard now.

Amusing though.

>> No.53619948

>>53619912
It's not devolving. It's elevating to a higher level of conversation. Much like how mages awaken to a higher level of consciousness

>> No.53619962

>>53619887
You realize that in real-world history Hermetics treated what they did as a natural philosophy, right? AKA the precursor to modern science.

Isaac Newton as an occultist. He had faith in god and placed even greater faith in the Corpus Hermeticum and its associated practice of Alchemy.

You're failing to grasp something that has always been a basic part of the history of modern science.

>> No.53619971

>>53619912
The power rankings. Legitimately Mage is stronger than the others because of the retarded amount of power they have that can dick over other characters (Hunter, Vampire etc). Also its the internet. Everyone's dick is 11 inches on the internet.

>> No.53619972

>>53619887
>Tradition, magick is first and foremost the use of Will.
Historical magical practices (and consequently all fictional magic based on it) have often involved what we'd today call a scientific approach that has nothing to do with the magicians' will. Alchemists, for example, broadly believed that their experiments were repeatable and based on natural laws, with the self not entering much into the equation at all (in fact, this approach is what led the modern science of chemi stry to develop from al chemy ). Likewise, John Dee believed that summoning angels by chanting in Enochian was just as much of a universal science as his work in mathematics was. The idea that magic is somehow not just another form of natural law (i.e. a science) is a post-Enlightenment idea. Mage is written from an intensely Modern Western viewpoint, and it steamrolls everything else.

>> No.53619979

>>53619628

The Universe doesn't have an opinion, it's the consensus. If the consensus accepts contradictions, then tough shit for the universe.

>> No.53619986

>>53619971
can we suck some other splat's dick for a while? how about we talk about mummys? I dont know jack about mummys and we never talk about mummys

>> No.53619995

>>53619962
>>53619972
Samethink!

>> No.53620004

>>53619986
Nobody wants to discuss Mummy.

Unless you're atamajakki

>> No.53620006

>>53619986

Mummies are fucking boring.

>> No.53620011

What would be the best tradition for a neme magic paradigm?

>> No.53620023

>>53620011
Meme magic?

Virtual Adepts. Duh.

>> No.53620047

>>53620004
>>53620006
fine then what about hunters? or geists? fucking anything but beasts or mages

>> No.53620055

>>53619986
>>53620047
>>53620006
>>53620004

I personally am surprised that we aren't talking about Renegade. Well, we might but I'm not on tg everyday. I personally am a huge fucking fan of Hunter and Hunter esqu concepts so It's fortunate that there is a lot of conversation over Hunter. But unfortunately from what I've gathered these are the general discussions in every general

1. Beast is SJW material
2. Mage is the best
3. LOL Prometheans
4. Aforementioned Hunter Convos
5. General conversation over character concepts and asking questions on how to deal with unruly players.

>> No.53620056

>>53620047
Fuck off.

Mages are life.

>> No.53620061

>>53619962
>>53619972
No, you're failing to grasp the subtitles and advancements in both mystical and scientific thought, and what ultimately led to them splitting off from one another.

The Hermetic scholars were far more philosophical and far more mathematical then scientific, playing out the conflict between Plato [whose knowledge is based on reason and intuition] and Aristotle [whose knowledge is based on experience] with differing preferences for either as time went on.

For example consider St Thomas Aquinas and the schoolmen. Powerhouses of logic, they used a dialectic reasoning based on the concepts of identifying acceptable axioms [generally certain core principles or authorities on given subjects] and then focusing on the resolving of contradictions and the pointing out of contradictions as their primary form of argumentation.

A very LOGICAL process, but not an EMPIRICAL process. Which is really the core feature here, that the Hermetics despite being scholarly, intelligent, rational, and even on occasion scientific, do have as the basis of their worldview ideas that are more mystical and more based in the realm of deductive truths based on perception, then scientific truths learned through empiricism and experience.

>> No.53620069

>>53620023

With their penchant for the reactionary side of politics and mash-up of modern and ancient ideas, i'd say Sons of Ether

>>53620047

Hunters are a massive grab bag, geists don't have enough info for much discussion

>> No.53620088

>>53620061
Clarification: I realize the Schoolmen are not Hermetics, but they are a good example of a rational medieval philosophy that nonetheless is not predominately "scientific" in nature.

>> No.53620090

>>53620069
mages are a massive grab bag too and all you seem to do is get in penis measuring fights over the various groups. I dont even care about just anything besides mages

>> No.53620094

>>53620055

We don't have much info about Deviant yet

>> No.53620109

>>53620094
Which sucks because the 3 or 4 paragraphs on 1d4chan about it have me greatly interested.

>> No.53620117

>>53620090

Mages are cooler than Hunters. Why do you think mage generates so much discussion?

>> No.53620143

>There are about three Technocrats in the thread, which one does it take to change a light bulb?

>The first couldn't do it. He's too busy arguing about how to get it done without making strong and problematic ontological claims regarding the actual existence of light bulbs.

>The second is occupied arguing about those meddlesome Tradition mages again for blowing the fuse box, which the first mage is questioning the phenomenology behind.

>The third is franticly looking for the candles.

>> No.53620149

>>53620061
Sorry, I just can't agree with you on this one.

Not without respect, of course.

>> No.53620168

>>53620117
I will partially agree and say Mages are cool but my issue with mage is that everytime I think of mages I can only conceptualize things like DND wizards, harry potter etc. It took my friend sitting me down and explaining you can build someone like John Constantine in Mage before I truly accepted mages could be cool and not just their powers.

>> No.53620169

we are now talking about hunters.
what compact is your favorite , why?
same thing with conspiracy.
My favorite compact is thul because I just really like their concept.
Task force Valkyrie is my favorite conspiracy because I love that have all the tech and skill but are just so tied up in bureaucracy they have trouble getting shit done. It just amuses me to no end.

>> No.53620184

>>53620061
>The Hermetic scholars were far more philosophical
Philosophy is dead. Science was once one and the same.

>and far more mathematical then scientific
Mathematics is a lens by which to understand science.

>> No.53620210

>>53620149
Nor I with you. As long as the Hermetics themselves call their process the Art, a word indicating a specific end in mind reached through variable means [if we use the medieval definition for the term] and use methods that combine the scientific/empirical with the mystical/intuitive I don't think its accurate to view the Magus as a scientist. Certain of his disciplines may be scientists, but much of his ideology and other disciplines are not.

And that is ignoring grey areas. For instance, if you use your Will to invoke a natural law to command an Angel to let you shoot fire out of your hands, is that scientific? The answer is a resounding "eeeeeeh"

You're primary agent is your will, so its definitely subjective.

But you're commanding a natural law, which is scientific.

But you're using it to command a particular agent, who is not passive in this process.

But the whole process creates a definitive cause-effect chain that reliably works.

>> No.53620223

>>53620184
Technocrat plz go

>> No.53620224

>>53620169
My Favorite Compact is The Night Watch because I like to combine elements of Watchmen and Blade to create characters for them.

My Favorite Conspiracy is a three way tie between Aegis Kai Doru, Knights of Saint Adrian and VASCU. Artifact Hunting is a concept I love to use in whatever game I play, Bikers with Angel Tattoo powers is cool to me and VASCU seems so easy to roleplay with elements of Hellboy universe in it.

>> No.53620238

>>53620061
>and what ultimately led to them splitting off from one another.

According to the Hermetic Paradigm they didn't split at the core, rather in approach. Hermetics consistently blur the lines though, while the Technocrats are full out science.

Really, it is somewhat absurd to call what the Hermetics do as "unscientific", but certainly there is leeway. Western Esotericism was always very rigid in application, much of it being a precursor to modern science(s).

>> No.53620248

>>53620224
yeah VASCU is really great, I like the whole slasher movie angle part a lot

>> No.53620255

>get invited to the newest Changling system
>no clue what it's about, other than like fae fight against other fae and mythical monsters, while also doing things in a dream world and human area
>or some shit like that
>two other players
>we all kind of make our characters in a bubble as a lark
>one guy is a pooka heroin addict that lives in a halfway house
>another is playing inital D: the tabletop, with him being the like Irish race, dunno what they're called, and serves as a mechanic and racecar driver with the goal of making sweet cash via illegal street racing
>my character is a Sidhe with max ranks in Rememberence, max ranks in melee, and 6 strength, who, due to her "too human" negative trait, feels more at home most times hanging around normies and monster hunting in order to keep humans safe from spooks of all kinds
>GM had planned on the campaign being about dealings with a local Duke, real political stuff, but decided against it and just did a session "on the fly"
>not only did it work great, but everyone got involved, we met in-character naturally, and all of us had a moment to shine

Doing chargen blind may suck most settings, but for some reason it worked like a charm in Changeling. I'm enjoying this so far.

>> No.53620278

>>53620061
>St Thomas Aquinas and the schoolmen.
I like that you know who and what these are.

I'm doing that thing where I GET what you're saying.

Like where you say: "Its based on a view of the world that incorporates mystical concepts such as the Platonic Forms, Spiritual Beings, and Higher Worlds."

That's correct. They would have been all knowing about all kinds of spiritual creatures and where traditionally they may be found, including Fairies, Hobgoblins, Elfs, Naiads, Potamides, Nymphs, Oreads, Hamedes, Dryads, Hamadryads, Satyrs, Sylvani, Napta, Agapta, Dodona, Palea, Feniliae, Gnomi, Sylphs, Pygmies, and Salamanders. The Gnomes were particularly significant as being supposed to be in command of or aware of buried treasure.

They would have been into all kinds of books with titles like: "Dr Rudd's Nine Hierarchies of Angels with their Invocations to Visible Appearance with the Nine Great Celestial Keys, or Angelical Invocations."

>>53620238
>Really, it is somewhat absurd to call what the Hermetics do as "unscientific", but certainly there is leeway. Western Esotericism was always very rigid in application, much of it being a precursor to modern science(s).
I agree with you whole heartedly. It's spliting hairs, arguing semantics/rhetoric/beating a dead horse/something entirely cosmetic. (Did nobody play Ars Magica?)

>> No.53620285

>>53620169

Compact would be Ashwood Abbey. What other group would hunt down a mummy in order to grind it up, mix it with blow, and snort it?

Conspiracy is VaSCU. I'm a sucker for "Millenium" and I love the idea of a group of Hunters that hunt Hunters.

>> No.53620296

>>53620285
Naw VASCU hunts slashers, slashers aint really hunters or even really human anymore.
Ashwood abby is fucking hilarious.

>> No.53620326

Alright I think I am lost, I see a bunch of new Japanese based hunter groups but I don't see what book they come from? Like the Otodo or Azusa-Miko?

>> No.53620338

So wait. Are mages the most powerful Template (both old and new) because it's thematically appropriate?

Or are they the strongest because "wizzerds"

>> No.53620341

>>53620296

Hunters are still technically serial killers. Just because someone has to subsist on blood or can use real magic doesn't mean they're no longer a citizen of the USA entitled to due process.

>> No.53620379

>>53620338
Yes.
>>53620278
As someone who appreciates Epistemology I don't think its splitting hairs, its a very important distinction. Knowing the difference between what knowledge is empirical and what knowledge is deductive is important, especially in a world defined by belief.

And that's ignoring the finer points of divergence between Hermetic and Technocratic epistemology, such as the Hermetics [and Etherites] being far more comfortable with a reality that lacks universals, and where laws of nature are localized.

>> No.53620413

>mystagogues dissecting a changeling

>> No.53620456

>>53620413
But why?

>> No.53620467

>>53620341
yeah but slashers arn't just serial killers they are serial killers that gain werid serial killer magic from being a serial killer

>> No.53620476

>>53619348
>I have literally no sense of humor and get offended when someone makes a joke on 4chan

>> No.53620512

>>53620456
Knowledge. And bullying changelings is fun

>> No.53620513

>>53620379
>Hermetics (and Etherites) [..] comfortable with a reality that lacks universals, and where laws of nature are localized.
[Uncomfortable Shiver]

There is not one single equation which allows them to predict the development of an embryo. (There are so many local interactions in the evolution of complex organisms that it is hard to analyze them analytically with a deterministic science approach.) Who is to say someone there isn't carrying hellspawn after a run-in with witchcraft?

>>53620476
I thought he was commenting on >>53609581 Which would make it much funnier.

>> No.53620554

>>53620467

VaSCU's remit includes all serial killers, not just slashers.

>> No.53620606

>>53620554
you are right but I suppose ive always focused on the slasher angle as I though slasher were a really fucking cool idea

>> No.53620646

>>53620606

It (slasher) is, it's just not the sole draw of VaSCU for me. I just get a kick out of the idea of locking up the local Malleus cell in Lansing

>> No.53620673

>>53620646
that actually sounds really fucking funny. I was always the old crotchety thul bro though

>> No.53620685

>>53620055
Man I'm both hyped and terrified for Deviant. On one hand, DaveB is making it and the concept sounds cool AF. On the other, I expect OPP to completely shit it up in every place they can.

>> No.53620936

>>53620685
Didnt you know that OPP is kill?

>> No.53621086

>>53620936
Wait, what?

>> No.53621137

>>53620936
'no'

>> No.53621194

Does anyone have any helpful pictures, charts, tips or anything to help teach and run 2e mage?

>> No.53621434

>>53621086
OPP is kill. Once they release Beckett's Jyhad Diary, they're done.

>> No.53621850

>>53621434
Source?

>> No.53621903

>>53621194
Your players can and will solve mundane mysteries and problems with casual, even contemptuous ease. Do Not Fight This. Mages get in over their heads seeking (capital M)Mysteries and fucking about with things best left un-fucked with. Embrace this.

Also, if possible and you have players you trust, slowly allow them to solve more and more mundane and immediate problems with the use of magic, gently lead them down the path of detaching themselves from sleeper worries and see just how casually monstrous and dismissive they can become.

>> No.53621959

You know how Saitama from One Punch Man suffers from boredom because he can't experience conflict?

I was thinking of creating an Incarnate Beast who is in a similar situation to Saitama, but in order to prevent their Myth from being Destabilized, they teach people not to seek victory and power for their own sake. Instead, they act as this martial arts master and spiritual guru of sorts who no one can beat but is said to be very wise, so people seek them out for all sorts of advice. They get to Feed their Horror by demonstrating their immense fighting skill and cunning, and teach the Lesson of "embrace your conflicts for they will make you stronger". And if anyone threatens their students over this Lesson, they show up to protect the students. Think Mister Miyagi and Master Shifu, but with a more Mastigos style. They would be an Anakim Tyrant.

How does that sound? I would like advice on how to make them more Beastly while keeping them helpful, and suggestions for a Horror/Lair.

>> No.53621999

>>53621850
>>53621850
The fact that they haven't released anything on time, and they're 4+ years behind on some of their kickstarter or other projects. Plus the fact that apparently they aren't able to pay some of their freelancers and such.

OPP is kill, mark my words.

>> No.53622030

>>53621999
First of all witnessed but second come on man unless you got a source definitively stating they are kill don't state it so authoritatively. You scared the shit out of me.

>> No.53622108

>>53622030
dont we want those assholes dead, arn't they the ones who SJWed the world of darkness?

>> No.53622140

>>53622108
I don't know. I don't know the politics of the companies.

>> No.53622183

>>53622030
Why be scared? If OPP is kill, then we can avoid all of this. I'm sick of waiting 4+ years for a release. I'm sick of the untested mechanics or the rampant craziness like Brucato's food sections or the 'alternate pronouns' bullshit. Just... write a game without injecting your own politics. But what do you expect from a company who has a high-horse transgendered person as one of their core staff, and no actual control methodology.

>> No.53622206

>>53622183
Because then who makes the games? That's why I'm scared.

>> No.53622223

>>53622183
But anon why would you let professionalism get in the way of your preaching and virtue signaling? That's like, what Hitler did when he ran the internet.

>> No.53622276

>>53622206
Aren't no games better then shit games? I would have preferred no Ascencion reboot if it meant no M20 cancer.
Also if OPP dies that means dev work on Komodo: The Dragoning starts sooner, which is a good thing.

>> No.53622283

You know what's missing from the V20 books? Gothic creepy ass quotes like this one, really put you in the mindset of the books

>> No.53622287

>>53622206
Obviously NuWW would license the rights to CofD out to someone else. Perhaps someone more capable of getting shit out on time.

>> No.53623181

>>53622287

I have yet to see a tabletop RPG company that has ever gotten a product out on time. Paizo maybe? Is WotC always on time?

>> No.53623682

>>53623181
4+ years though? Also, BNS has hit (within a couple of months) both of their LARP books.

>> No.53623803

>>53623682

It doesn't really count because its fanbase is bonkers but Palladium has has some RIFTS books still "in production" for the past fifteen years or so.

>> No.53623869

>>53622283

>Hazarski rečnik
>gothic

>> No.53624823

>>53618808
>A sleeper can't build a flying carpet like they can a plane.
Who here in this thread can be said to be able to build a modern plane? Now a jetpack used around a military base at night won't generate nearly as much Paradox energy as a flying carpet zipping down Wall Street. While a computer on the other hand...

>> No.53625054

>>53620117
In popular media 'no mall person fighting against super powered monster' is typically regarded as much cooler than a wizard/occultist

>> No.53625072

>>53620184
Is this /sci/ bait?

>> No.53625117

>>53625072
Pop-Scifags are the worst.

>> No.53625703

>>53618436
A daily reminder that while wizards and witches mumble around in their muddy fortresses, loyal Technocrats enjoy fast cars, sweet perks, and a key to the executive suite.

>> No.53625744

>>53625703

>> No.53625794

So if my werewolf gets turned into lawn furniture...

...is she fucked for good?

>> No.53625796

>>53625703
>loyal Technocrats enjoy fast cars, sweet perks, and a key to the executive suite.
>CofD

>Join the Seers
>You know you want to...

>> No.53625839

>>53625794
>So if my werewolf gets turned into lawn furniture...
>...is she fucked for good?

First, werewolves are usually turned into throw rugs, not lawn furniture.

More importantly, often a transformation is just temporary and used as a warning.

If so, consider yourself lucky, never bother mages again, and be sure to warn your hairy, slobbering friends of the fate that befalls those who wield the power Supernal.

>> No.53625846

>>53625794
Personally I'm of the opinion the werewolves can clash to escape a hostile transformation since they're natural shapeshifters.

>> No.53625852

>>53625839
>often a transformation is just temporary and used as a warning.

Yeah, but what if said mage decides to make it permanent?

>> No.53625957

>>53625852
Isn't that Clashed?

Or Withstood?

>> No.53625965

>>53625852
>Yeah, but what if said mage decides to make it permanent?

Permanent spells are demanding and costly, and rarely wasted on beings that don't really pose a threat such as werewolves and vampires.

Your *really* need to piss a mage off for a permanent transformation.

If you are such an unfortunate victim, your packmates can probably negotiate with some powerful spirit to transform you back. Of course, you would owe a big favor to the spirit AND a very angry and determined mage as an adversary.

>> No.53625969

>>53625852
Then the mage will be a dick and unsafely relinquish the spell and fuck off to turn some other poor creature into furniture.

>> No.53625990

>>53625846
>Personally I'm of the opinion the werewolves can clash to escape a hostile transformation since they're natural shapeshifters.

They can certainly shapeshift into a variety of different throw rugs, but that will hardly solve their problem...

>> No.53625998

Could Mages just make their own general at this point?

>> No.53626024

>>53625969
>Then the mage will be a dick and unsafely relinquish the spell and fuck off to turn some other poor creature into furniture.

You sometimes have to wonder if when meeting a mage in his sanctum, you're in his living room or his trophy room.

>> No.53626035

>>53625998
>Could Mages just make their own general at this point?

You are free to raise any WOD/CofD discussion you want. No one is forcing you discuss Mage.

>> No.53626070

>>53625998
No, it would wither and die swiftly. Shitposting and falseflagging is literally all thats keeping this general alive right now.

>> No.53626264

If you could make your own Path, what would it be?

What would your two ruling Arcana be?

What is the inferior?

What stands it out from the others? What gives it the right to exist? What gives you the right to exist?

>> No.53626286

>>53626264
There are loads of homebrew paths on the Onyx Path forums.

>> No.53626328

>>53626264

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Oe7Q8OCm5I

>> No.53626366

>>53626264
I'd just change the inferior arcanum of Mastigos and Acanthus to Fate and Prime respectively.

I liked the idea of Mastigos being deathly afraid of Fate magic because it's power to bind and connect you to things was antithetical to the Scourging ideology of casting off weaknesses.

Plus the idea of the Acanthus having problems with comprehending the objective patterning and frameworks of the tapestry of Prime because it goes against their flowing mercurial nature.

>> No.53626387

>>53626264
The Path of the Soul.

The seventh Dragon awaits to be born.
Throw off the tyranny of your watchtowers.
Seize Supernal power from the source!

>> No.53626550

Any ideas for a V20 campaign for a bunch of people new to tabletop? I myself have been in or running shit for 10 years, but I recently moved abroad and my new group of friends knows nothing about tabletop. Preferably not your typical "kill the Sabbat" campaign, though, as that's boring to me.

>> No.53626718

>>53626366
I would hate this. Fate goes so well with Space.

>> No.53626759

>>53626550
It really depends on what story they want. If they are newly embraced fledglings the obvious "sire's ally has gone missing" can work to introduce them to your city and its various players.

>> No.53626807

>>53626366

Prime as an Inferior Arcanum would be crippling.

>> No.53626811

>>53610975
Keep the crossover capability but downplay it more heavily.

Change the term for the antagonist splat from Hero to Slayer. And then have the players have to build the slayer that is destined to kill them one day.

>> No.53626828

>>53626811
Meant for this to be in reply to >>53611399

>> No.53626841

>>53626807
>implying Prime Is mandatory

This isn't Ascension.
No single Arcanum is mandatory

>> No.53626871

>>53626366
Those... Are horrible alternative inferior Arcana.

>> No.53627066

>>53626718
Inferior arcana is more flavor than an actual roadblock in my experience.

>> No.53627262

>>53626759
>>53626759

That's the thing, I'm not sure they know what they want - I just told them about the concept of WoD and they seemed interested.

>> No.53627336

>>53627066
The Inferior Arcana are hardly road blocks.

Taking them as your third Ruling is an interesting option, growing beyond the constraints.
In this case, the Mastigos; Mind over Matter

>> No.53627956

Could I have a pair of rank 1 familiars instead of one rank 2?

>> No.53628393 [DELETED] 

who /nephandi/ here

>> No.53628759

>>53627956
Nope only the highest potency familiar spell will stay active.

>> No.53628812

What's the archmaster equivalent for other splats?

Vampires-Methusalem etc...

>> No.53628903

>>53628812
There are none.

>> No.53628906

>>53628812
Dude we get it, you want to shitpost in the supernal realms but that shits not even Covert anymore.

Stop it you half assed magefag.

>> No.53628912

>> No.53628923

>> No.53628929

>> No.53628941

>> No.53628951

>> No.53628959

>> No.53628966

>>53628906
Better to just let it happen. It's not healthy to hold it in.

>> No.53628970

>> No.53628980

>>53614451

Dyin' for an ideal does not sanctify it.

It merely makes you a dead body, sacrificed for a wrong idea.

I feel no need to respect a dead idiot. It cheapens the deaths of those who died for a good cause. Not all dead are equals, and that's a good lesson to remember.

>> No.53628986

>> No.53629000

>> No.53629012

>> No.53629021

>> No.53629027

>> No.53629041

>> No.53629109

>>53628812
The closest you'll come to in Nwod is some stuff about spirits/things that protect their particular splats from Archmasters just erasing them from existance. They arnt named or anything but are out there somewhere, doing shit, nobody knows about

>> No.53629116

>Mage 1e Corebook

>baka

>> No.53629298

>>53628812
This was discussed on the official forums years back, but I cannot for the life of me recall the exact details, simply the fact that the topic had been discussed and clarified. (If my mind has not failed me that badly.)

>> No.53629410

>>53629298

Rose stated that A Thousand Years of Night will NOT be the Requiem equivalent of Imperial Mysteries, does does she have any intention or plans to develop or write such a book. She believe that the themes and setting priorities of Requiem simply don't warrant or demand such a product like they do for Awakening.

>> No.53629437

>>53629116

>> No.53629461

>>53629437
exploding kneecaps?

>> No.53629490

>>53629116
>>53629437

At least they didn't need to >Kill The Batman

>> No.53629689

>>53629437
>>53629490
Wth is wrong with their faces?

>>53629410
There was an outline posted on the forums and from what I recall it is mostly ST advice. I'm kinda happy with that

>> No.53629806

>>53629689
>Wth is wrong with their faces?

Warning: Exposure to the Supernal can cause scarring, erectile dysfunction, abdominal discomfort, blindness, death, soul loss and anal leakage.

If you experience of these side-effects, discontinue spell use immediately, and speak with your Hierarch or Minister to discuss your symptoms.

>> No.53629933

>>53629806
>Warning: Exposure to the Supernal can cause scarring, erectile dysfunction, abdominal discomfort, blindness, death, soul loss and anal leakage.


That's actually worse than the effects of most Paradox conditions.

>> No.53630168

So would anyone here happen to know of some alternate Paradox rules? I want something more thematically interesting then "roll soak vs bashing" in oWoD or "it does fucking nothing" in CofD. I tried googling it but all I got were people whining on RPGnet and the OPP forums and little in the way of actual rules.

>> No.53630531

>>53630168

Found this thread for OMage, could be ported to NMage with a little work

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-classic-world-of-darkness/mage-the-ascension/902392-1001-interesting-paradox-backlashes

>> No.53630584

>>53625054

Harry Potter begs to differ

>> No.53630668

>>53619979

I just figured that the Traditions understood that Belief defines Reality and wanted to show that truth to the world rather than imposing a new paradigm.

>> No.53630728

>tfw its time for the One World of Darkness tri-yearly check in.

S'up /wodg/. Have we had any content worth mentioning since the mobile games and Judas Goat?

>> No.53631068

>>53630728

Yes, see the OP.

https://pastebin.com/cp0r59da

>> No.53632411

>> No.53632689

Here is an idea for a duo of characters: adventurer scientists who work as a team, a Mage and a Demon. The former would be an Obrimos who is a member of the Mysterium and the Thaumatech Engineers. The latter would be an Analyst Inquisitor. They could bicker all day about cosmological maps and such, but they respect each other's intellect and have each other's back when it matters. To borrow some TV Tropes terms, the Obrimos would be Red Oni, while the Analyst would be the Blue Oni. I'm thinking that the Obrimos would belive in a structured, meaningful universe. The Analyst, due to having witnessed the contradictory plans of the God-Machine and their horrible fallout for mankind, would be an atheist, or at least a very skeptical agnostic. They could enter the story when a mysterious event the PCs are investigating draws their attention, and they offer to help with the investigation. However, each one has a different method of handling investigations, and the PCs might be split regarding whose help would be the most useful. Does that sound interesting?

>> No.53632824

Is there any single pdf of the Guide to the Technocracy that isn't missing the last, and arguably most important, part of the book?

I'm very close to purchasing a print copy just to fucking complete this scan

>> No.53632866

>>53632689
Idea is tried and true proof lies in the way you execute them in game. Not so long ago I joined WtF game on my ordo dracul character. Characters that stick their noses in none of their business and offer some contrasting dynamics always liven up the game.

>> No.53633202

>>53632824

The one linked in the OP? That's the one I have and it's all there.

>> No.53633276

>>53633202
Was it under this link because that one is dead for me
Or was it some other one?

>> No.53633367

>>53633276

Yeah, it's the second one and oh wow, you're right, it's completely gone.

Thank fuck I actually saved everything from it a while back.

If it doesn't come back in the next few days, I'll look to upload my copy of those folders on Mega again and link it in the thread, but for now here's what you asked for originally:

http://www1.zippyshare.com/v/aoHqAtVR/file.html

>> No.53633481

>>53633367
Thank you so much, man
I'm planning on running a technocracy game so this would have killed me

>> No.53633499

>>53633481

If you want the Revised versions of the Technocracy Convention books just say so, I can upload those too.

>> No.53633539

>>53633499
Is there more than just the Iteration X one?
Because if so I would appreciate it a lot
And a full product listing for oWoD if you have one because I just realized mine doesn't even list that revised book

>> No.53633663

>>53633539

Yeah, it's got the Progenitors, Void Engineers, NWO and Syndicate too. Here you go:

http://www17.zippyshare.com/v/6GcaG4FW/file.html

Full product listing? Dunno about that one and I can't really bother with copypasting the name of every book for every splatbook in oWoD. There's simply too many of them.

>> No.53634493

>>53633499

You wouldn't happen to have digital web, would you? either version.

>> No.53634774

>>53634493

Sure, I have those, here's both of them in one archive:

http://www29.zippyshare.com/v/LyISPszr/file.html

>> No.53635003

>>53634774

Doesn't seem to wanna let me download. Probably shouldn't have dl'ed that other guys request first.

>> No.53635062

>>53635003

Really? I wasn't aware zippyshare had any sort of limitations. My bad.

>> No.53635107

>>53635062

Actually I had to restart my browser.

>> No.53635135

>>53635062
>>53635107

It works now. Problem fixed and thank you.

>> No.53635164

>>53635135

No problem. Afraid that's it from me for tonight though, so if anyone needs something else that they can't get at the moment from the non-working Mega archive, just reply to this post with what you want and I'll upload it tomorrow and link it either here or in the next thread.

>> No.53636212

>>53629410
Someone mentioned something about the Crone?

>> No.53637163

Why is Vampire the worst of the lines?

>> No.53637283

>>53637163
Why do you shitpost?

>> No.53637440

>>53637163
That's neither beast nor geist so your argument is invalid.

>> No.53637612

>>53628812
There shouldn't be an Archmage equivalent for the other gamelines.

It wouldn't make any sense.

>> No.53637692

>>53630728
They did playtests of V5 at the WoD Berlin event. The pastebin in the OP is what I compiled together from a large chunk of the people who played in the playtest. The majority of it I'm looking forward to, even if I'm going to just waste the Anarchs and have the Camarilla become more insular in my games.

>> No.53637739

>>53637612
Vampires could equal archmages in Masquerade. Why not Requiem?

>> No.53637776

>>53637739
... sigh.

>> No.53637781

>>53610975
Guys, i need to prepare a game set in Japan. For that i need to know some of the 'poor' areas or neighborhoods that i could use as setting. Bonus points for shrines and temples or big residential area. I heard even in Tokyo or Osaka there are these kinds of places, but if possible i wanted a smaller city.

Anyone got any idea or experience?

>> No.53637805

>>53637776
Piss off magefag

>> No.53637938

>>53637805
I'm not a magefag, I'm just FUCKING TIRED OF THE GODDAMN MAGE VS VAMPIRE BULLSHIT THAT HAS DERAILED EVERY FUCKING THREAD FOR THE PAST FOUR FUCKING MONTHS.

>> No.53637980

>>53637938
I tried to get people to talk about something else but they wouldn't
Gonna try again
LETS TALK ABOUT HUNTERS INSTEAD!

>> No.53638002

>>53637739
>Vampires could equal archmages in Masquerade
Not really

>Why not Requiem?
Because street tier gameplay is a better alternative?

>> No.53638022

>>53637739
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2p5T3P2rAE

Step. 1 would be diablerising all Le. It'll be some serious Highlander grade sheeite.

>> No.53638028

>>53637980
I would rather discuss 'mage x vampire' than hunters

>> No.53638056

>>53638028
>Not having it as a threeway.

>> No.53638091

>>53638028
then lets post other stuff
have some leaked footage from the new paradox CoD werewolf vidya. set in europe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhSc8qVMjKM

>> No.53638450

>>53638028

>> No.53638637

>>53628812
For Vamps, go read the Gehenna book for inspiration.

>> No.53638968

>>53620255

That's why it's my favorite splat. Changeling is all about getting crazy shenanigans to occur at a fairly normal power level. It's Hunter but everyone is cosplaying.

>> No.53639074

>>53630668

That, in and of itself, is a new paradigm. If everyone believes that belief defines reality then the consensus that belief defines reality becomes the measure by which things do and do not work.

Anything believed in by anyone will still work.

>> No.53639086

>>53637980
>LETS TALK ABOUT HUNTERS INSTEAD!

Like any Hunter would ever have the slightest chance against an archmage in either the WOD or CofD...

Hunters should stick with easy prey like vampires...

>> No.53639098

>>53637440

>beast and geist in the same sentence

Shit son you have no idea what you're missing.

>> No.53639167

>>53639098
Beast is the worst by far but I think geist is the next weakest gameline. Just there's a power gap

>> No.53639170

>>53639086
that's a stupid argument though... strongest, plot device level version of X can beat Y so lets only suck X's dick. Im sick to death of mage fan wank, if you dont want to talk about hunter talk about literally any splat but beast or mage.

>> No.53639279

>>53638450

This synchs up with "Hell on Earth" in ascension in which the Nephandi somehow manage to win it all and not erase the universe.

I'm still pissed there was no "Chaos Uber Alles" ending. With all the crazy shit in the world these days, terrorism, trump, and other sources of Division everywhere it still seems like the Marauders could win.

>> No.53639285

>>53639167

I played Geist for a while and I thought that it was pretty fun. I agree that it's the weakest, especially because it was pretty much unsupported by White Wolf even before it was released, but Geist has salvageable themes and Beast is just scattershot SJW bullshit.

>> No.53639329

>>53639170

So how about that Caine, huh?

>> No.53639357

>>53639329
If I rectal the stats for caine are :you lose

>> No.53639388

>>53639167

Honestly, geist still seems more solid than mummy or promethean.

>> No.53639549

>>53639388

I think people would have loved it if White Wolf gave a single shit about maintaining the game line.

>> No.53639556

So... the new world of darkness? in setting, is it any good?

>> No.53639649

Interesting fact of the day: Defense of the Sacred Haven is at its most valuable when you use it while traveling. You can greatly mitigate one of the greatest hazards of travel for vampires, unexpected sunlight.

>> No.53639788

>>53639556

Depends on what setting you use I guess. Most splats are designed to have a generic setting and then advice for building your own.

There's something of a metaplot in the form of the God-Machine Chronicle, but I wouldn't bother with that.

>> No.53639865

>>53639556
its doesnt have a "setting" or metaplot which means no stupid baggage but you'll have to do some work to make your own setting.

>> No.53639881

>>53638450
lol

This runs counterproductive to what happened during the Week of Nightmares. The artillery of men specifically killed Ravnos.

Were all Masquerade authors this pissy?

>> No.53639899

>>53639357

>> No.53639929

>>53626550
Flip that on it's ear. When I ran V20 for a group that had no experience with WoD, I made them generate mortal characters and than ran a mass prelude wherein they were all shovel partied. I made them dice off for their clans and generation (13th-10th) and then cut them loose.

Because my dice love irony, the guy who rolled a legit Klansman got Assamite Antitribu, the burned out Rock star with no ambition got Lasombra, the super social pretty boy got Gangrel Antitribu nand the two most well adjusted players got Tzimisce. I then cut them loose and let them escape the sabbat to find their own place in vampire society.

Oh, and I didn't tell them what they rolled. I simply had a 24 hour time skip in which they were involved in events that they had no knowledge of because Hunger Frenzy.

>> No.53639944

>>53639881
The nuclear strike (spirit bombs) originally intended to kill the three Bodhisattvas nearly extinguished Zapathasura as an after effect.

The sunlight produced by the satellites vaporised the Ante instantly. So much for one of the founders of Fortitude, weakened or not.

>> No.53639982

>>53639899
Weakness: horrible parenting skills
TOP FUCKING KEK

>> No.53640049

>>53639881
The assumption back then was that WW authors of the 90s were all biased morons.

>> No.53640089

I just realised...

The current Greater Ministries involve the supremacy of Prime, Forces, Mind, and Space.

Those are the solely the ruling Arcana of Obrmios and Mastigos paths.
Like, exclusively.
The only other Ministry which is anywhere near to such dominance is that of Mamon, Matter. And even that's merely a Ministry on the up-and-up, it's not quite there yet.

Could that potentially suggest that Mages of those two Paths would be more likely than most others to join the Seers?

When I think of Seers, I do generally think more of Mastigos or Obrimos characters, rather than Thyrsus, Moros or Acanthus.

>> No.53640204

>>53639865
>>53639788
I remember the new Vampire book having some stupid story in it, but if it can all be ignored it makes things much better.

>> No.53640481

>>53639285
People complain about its rules being borked. But the ST is borked from the get-go. Geist + Book of the Dead + splats = Win.

People play WoD for the themes, milieu and lore. If they wanted rules that worked, then they'd play something like Savage Worlds or AD&D 2e. WoD is to play Make Belief for teens and adults. If they wanted competetive play and avoiding cases of player in-fighting over e-dicking, then there are better rule sets.

>> No.53640543

>>53640481
Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines from Activision – with all the mods and patchs applied – is an ideal representation of how the table-top expiernce is meant to play out, in theory. And it's a damn fine vidya.

>> No.53640579

>>53640543
> Bloodlines from Activision,
>Activision

GET OUT

>> No.53640580

>>53640576

>>
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