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/tg/ - Traditional Games


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>> No.53574828

First for orks still suck sad, green is pain

>> No.53574832

>>53574802

Is this the worst official SM paint scheme that isn't a 30 year old meme from Rogue Trader?

>> No.53574848

>>53574832
>Emperor's Shields
more like the emperor's jesters

>> No.53574865

Why are autocannons so best?

>> No.53574867

Who's tougher? Plague marine or Rubric marine vs one wound stuff?

Also if you're hit by a d3 damage, you don't get the +1 right? As you resolve saves before damage even if later it does 1 damage?

>> No.53574883

How do I get a looted Knight?

>> No.53574888

>>53574865
Are they? What makes them good?

>> No.53574891

>>53574867
Yes.

>> No.53574892

I don't have the rulebook and am trying to make a list, how does power translate to points?

>> No.53574895

>> No.53574899

How are Mutilators now?

>> No.53574901

what legs are these?

>> No.53574905

>>53574802
nth for Tau WAACfags BTFO

>> No.53574907

>>53574895

>exposed missiles everywhere for no reason

>> No.53574912

>>53574892
One powerlevel is about 20-25 points.

>> No.53574913

Why did they fuck psyker heavy armies? Why does GW hate variety?

>> No.53574915

>>53574888
48" range, 2d3 shots, S7, AP-1, d3 damage

>> No.53574916

>>53574895
This is a good thread, don't bring that ilk in here to trash up the place.

>> No.53574917

>>53574849
>grey knight librarians can't take grey knight gear

Are you okay

Do you have brain damage

>> No.53574920

Best nid HQ?

OOE or Swarmlord?

>> No.53574926

r8 my leman russ tank names pls

some of them probably arent fitting for a lemon so I need help whittling them down

>bonus points for working out the type of lemon the name belongs to

Most of them are loosely themed around a guard regiment working alongside the Howling Griffons.

Names:

A Moments Penance
Pride of Mancora
Oathsworn Chaperone
Last Judgement
Bittersweet Baroness
Pride Before Fall
Bondsman of Dennar
Emperor’s Gauntlet
Paragon’s Folly
Honour’s Bounty
Gertrude
Insult and Injury
Bane of Cowards
Mancorian Jester
Stalwart Dawn
Two Drink Minimum
Dagger in the Eye
Wrenched Wench
Belay That Order
Bulwark of Intent
Staunch Refusal
Barking up the Wrong Barrel
Backhander
Full Fathom Five
Better than Valour
Scythe of Damnation
Old Man of Mancora
Ready or Not
Clobbered Renegade
Villein’s Vice
Bush Beater
Traitor’s Remorse
In Ceramite Clad
Three-Inch Fool
Despair’s Visage
Lady’s Protest
The Big Fella
Heretic’s Doubt
Harbinger of Piety
On Bended Knee
Lawbringer

>> No.53574931

>>53574905
To be fair, they promised you can field anything you want. You can't field 3 Riptides now and not expect to lose.

>> No.53574933

>>53574905

>It's a slap in the face to all players with 3 or more Riptides to nerf them so hard.

Fucking disgusting Tau players. What else is new?

>> No.53574940

The more I read the army lists and point costs the more confused I get, and more convinced that they are filled with mistakes I get.

Typhus costs 164 points including wargear.
Lord of Contagion costs 185 points including wargear.

This is despite the fact that Typhus is the same or markedly better in every single way (ie, same stats, better weapons, an extra aura, is a psyker!!), there are no areas where he is worse as far as I can see. And this is just one thing, there are plenty others similar.

It really concerns me that the points costing is so broken, because that means the balance of the game will be broken. Am I missing something? I feel like I must be.

>> No.53574942

>>53574926

>pt. 2

Judge and Jury
Above Reproach
Sow of Discontent
Fealty’s Reward
This End Up
Graceless Fiend
Kraken Cracker
Baron of Mancora
Griffon’s Aerie
Where Griffons Dare
Thou Doth Protest
Saint & Sinner
Rough and Ready
Bunch-Backed Grox
Mercy Denied
Imperator’s Impasse
Wyrm-tongue
Mancorian Kiss
Humble Pie
Taste of Reckoning
Just Desserts
Plasteel Lining
Ardent Prayer
Sanctified Fool
Say My Name
Dogged Squire
Ever Faithful
Two Birds One Tank
Flower of Defiance
Steel Thunder
Ogryn’s Kiss
Lance Held High
Offense Taken
Tyrant Fodder
Purest Purpose
Point of No Return
Never Say Martyr
Beyond Gallantry
Warden of Dennan
Heart of Dennan
Last Greased Gasp
Dennan Stout
Two For Flinching
Shield of Dennan
Erred Errant
Ride Unto Ruin
Light of Dawn
Gratified Resolve
Long Time Coming
Hand In the Cookie Jar
Cawl’s Crackpipe

>> No.53574948

>>53574832
Pre-6th Minotaurs scheme.

>> No.53574950

>>53574905
>It's a slap in the face to all the players with 3 or more Riptides

>> No.53574963

>>53574905

I mean, they're kinda right that it's been chunked down to the point of not really being worth taking at all.

Nerfing something to the point where it's stupid to spam it is good, nerfing it to the point where it's pointless is p bad game design.

>> No.53574966

>>53574883
Don't play Matched

>>53574915
Oh, I thought you meant regular Autocannons
Yeah the Predator one is pretty great

>> No.53574968

>>53574867
Plague most likely.
>Depends on AP and if cover is a factor, and the Strength of the gun.

Can Plagues use their "FNP" vs Mortal Wounds?

>> No.53574979

>>53574968
Nurgle Daemons can in AoS

>> No.53574981

>>53574968
I think they can

>> No.53574986

>>53574917
I swear to god, I read through the entry like 5 times before and never noticed that line
My bad, you're right

>> No.53574988

>>53574883
>only two dakkas and one choppy bit
Yu's muckin about.

>> No.53574990

>>53574968

Yes.

>> No.53574997

>>53574979
>>53574981
Then Plagues hand down as their FNP is better than an invulnerable save as Mortal Wounds can't ignore it.

>> No.53575007

>>53574901
Look like Fire Warrior legs with human feet.

>> No.53575009

>>53574926
>>53574942
How many fucking tanks are you fielding?

>> No.53575017

>>53574883
Wonderin' dat meself.

We don't have allied detachments anymore. What do?

>> No.53575020

>>53574905
>It's a slap in the face to all the players with 3 or more Riptides
Too bad it wasn't a boot in the ass

>> No.53575021

>>53574931
I mean you can but it would have to be in a high point game and they sure as hell wouldn't do the work they used to.

>> No.53575026

>>53574730
I'm this >>53574055 Anon.
Here's a sergeant I finished recently. I'm happy with how he came out, except for the face.

>> No.53575027

Are Tau still forbidden from using their own squad's markerlights? there's no information on the section whereas it was there in previous editions.

Also, are Coldstars viable now? Movement seems to be massive and being locked into the BRRRRT cannon isn't as bad due to having even more shots now.

>> No.53575029

>>53574912
Thanks but is there a definitive answer for posterity sake?

>> No.53575036

>>53574926
>Most of them are loosely themed around a guard regiment working alongside the Howling Griffons.

>> No.53575040

>>53575017
The "one faction" rule is only for matched, narrative and open lets you do whatever

Still 7 layers of bullshit that Tyranids get Leman Russes before Chaos and Orks do

>> No.53575043

>>53574940
Yeah the index point costs are a mess. I'd assume when the first balance wave hits the point costs start to make sense again.

>> No.53575044

>>53575029
That is the definitive answer you stupid fuck

>> No.53575046

>>53575009

...I got a little carried away this afternoon.

I have 10-15 lemons and a few chimeras plus a Knight and maybe a Baneblade.

>>53575036

Cruddace pls no

>> No.53575047

>>53574905

Im so glad I only ever bought 2 of them.

>> No.53575052

>>53574997

It's much less effective than an invuln against multi-damage weapons though.

>> No.53575053

>>53575029
Click the first link in the OP and get the rules.

>> No.53575055

>>53574940
How much is a Tychus model? I'll bet that GW is in it for the $$$.

>> No.53575061

>>53575029
No. There is no direct powerlevel to points conversion, they are calculated in different ways.

>> No.53575069

>>53575046
No anon, Crud plays 2 armies Guard and Howling Griffons, you are the Cruddance

>> No.53575073

>>53574905

What a time to be alive.

>> No.53575074

>>53575009
not enough.

>> No.53575081

>>53575040
>Still 7 layers of bullshit that Tyranids get Leman Russes before Chaos and Orks do

Chaos should've got the same clause GSC got.

Orks should have gotten, any AM vehicles can replace Imperium tag with ORK, and <Clan> and reduce BS to 5+

>> No.53575085

>>53574905
>tfw stop by my local GW store Tuesday
>have a great time chatting with my fellow fa/tg/entlemen
>Subject of 8th comes up, redshirt talking about how some people are salty online
>we all chuckle about it, though noone says out loud that its the Taufags
>conversation moves on with me mentioning that the new dread skipped leg day
Love my local community, gonna stop by tomorrow for the big day.

>> No.53575088

We're gonna need a re-stat for 8th.

>> No.53575089

>>53575029
No, Power doesn't include Wargear, so converting points to power is hopeless

>> No.53575092

If someone started Death Guard due to the starting edition, would you look down on them?

>> No.53575095

>>53575027
You don't "Use" markerlights anymore, you just get an effect when targeting that unit relative to how many markerlight hits you have on it. The assumption is that everyone can use them

>> No.53575096

>>53575027
So far it seems like they can use their own markerlights now. It's pretty essential thing for sky ray whose whole point is to be able to fire its own missiles independently. With new point costs crisis suits got hit hard and point-for-point commanders trump them hard.

>> No.53575097

>>53574905
>expecting top 3 NOVA armies to stay at the same level in power rankings
These are bandwagoners obviously and have no clue how edition changes work nowadays

>> No.53575104

>>53575052
Can you explain how?

Isn't the options:
Plague: Take Armour Save, if failed take FNP
Rubric: Take 5++

>> No.53575113

>>53575092
The opposite!
They're really cool models and more Chaos players are always welcome


Can't say the same for Primaris players though

>> No.53575115

>>53574963
They still have decent weapons on a tough to kill platform. Try finding stronger (more armor, wounds, rending weapons) units at the same price point.

>> No.53575123

>>53575069

>it was me all along

oh no

>> No.53575130

>>53575104
Take armour save, roll damage, roll FNP for each damage

>> No.53575133

Coming Soon: Space Marine Repulsor :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io3RLZJYqXk

Is that the new primaris transport?
It will, in any case, struggle to turn with those big reactor and tiny skies in the front

>> No.53575143

>>53575092
Traitors arr rook arike to me.

>> No.53575144

>>53575089
>>53575061
Then why the fuck does the list builder even exist when it uses power level?

>> No.53575151

>>53575130
5++ is better against shit like autocannons, lascannons and so on.

>> No.53575152

>>53575081
No, bugger off and get your own units. GSC an get more civilian funky conversions and Orks can get more KND level of scrap technology.

Sick of every other army having a way of stapling IG units to theirs with no downside, they even count as their faction when GSC do it in 8th.

Gimme my Imperial Genestealers you cunts.

>> No.53575166

>>53575144
You're fucking retarded, anon. I swear you are

You can switch to points with the click of a button right above Army Book

>> No.53575172

>>53575130
But the Invulnerable is All Or Nothing?
You either save and take no damage or Fail and take (say) 6 Wounds

>> No.53575178

>>53575133
It floats, whatcha want?

>> No.53575186

>>53575144
Power is for easy army comparison, the one with less Power starts first and you get a free re-roll for each 10 Power below your opponent's

Points are still for determining match sizes, same as before

>> No.53575187

>>53575152
>In this Anon's Headcanon: Guardsmen can't fall to Chaos, the Post

>> No.53575189

>>53574806
>>53574880

with that paintjob, more like harakoni shithawks

>> No.53575192

>>53574905
>Eldar broken for 5 editions
>no nerf
>Tau broken for one edition
>nerfed into unplayable

>> No.53575195

>>53574867
T4 2+ 5++
T5 3+ 5+FNP
Hit by a multilaser: (2/3)*(1/6)=0.11vs (2/3)*(1/3)*(2/3)=0.15
Hit by a heavy bolter:(2/3)*(1/3)=0.22 vs (1/2)*(1/2)*(2/3)=0.16
Hit by a bolter: (1/2)*(1/6)=0.08 vs (1/3)*(1/3)*(2/3)=0.07
Hit by a lasgun: (1/3)*(1/6)=0.06 vs (1/3)*(1/3)*(2/3)=)0.07

There's not really a clear winner, plagues do better against bolters and heavy bolters whilst 1kson do better against lasguns and multilasers.

>> No.53575198

>>53575095
>>53575096
But then how does the order of firing work? It's still a Heavy 1 weapon so it must be fired, I assume, at the same time as every other unit in the squad. This means you can't fire markerlights, get the counters and then apply the buffs to the rest of the squad.

>> No.53575201

>>53575172
Indeed, but stuff like melted can't reduce it. So plague marines are good vs mortal wounds, Rubrics vs heavy weapons and both pretty good vs small arms fire

>> No.53575202

>>53575133
Power level 14

S7 T8 W13 Sv3+
Turret - Heavy Lascannon, Heavy Stubber
*Resolve shots with Heavy Stubber first, if the Heavy Lascannon targets a unit hit by the Stubber, it may reroll misses

Hull-mounted Twin Lascannon, swivels up/down and left/right

Rotor cannon is a pintle mounted upgrade

Missiles: Roll a D6 at the start of each fight phase for each enemy unit within 1", on a 4+ it takes D3 mortal wounds (slightly better Frag Assault Launchers)

Transport Capacity 7, can only transport Primaris Marines

Decays its Movement/BS/Attacks as it loses wounds
Movement 10" BS 3+ Attacks 3 base

We heresy boys

>> No.53575203

>>53574926
>>53574942
This isn't halo, try again

>> No.53575205

>>53575192
Eldar being OP isn't a bug, it's a feature.

>> No.53575207

new marines
same proportions in relation to the enemies
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/06/02/new-warhammer-40000-a-vision-of-the-far-future-june2gw-homepage-post-4/

>> No.53575213

>>53575152
If you think that's bad, Chaos staples a shitton of Space Marine units to their with no downside either

Same reasoning

>> No.53575217

>>53575092
I'm doing it, sort of. I already have Nurgle Daemons, so I'm branching out to DG when they hit.

>> No.53575224

>>53574905
>SLAP IN DA FACE
Holy shit this brings me back to the old WoW days. What next - is someone gonna try to cast Bus Shock on GW?

>> No.53575227

>>53575043

Balance in 7th vs balance in 8th:
Eldar Jetbike with twin Shuriken Catapults? 17 points.

Eldar Jetbike with Shuriken Cannons? 27 points.

Relative point difference for the superior option: ~ 60 percent.

Eldar Jetbike with twin Shuriken Catapults? 30 points.

Eldar Jetbike with Shuriken Cannons? 32 points.

Relative price difference: ~7 percent.

Last I checked nobody was complaining about unupgraded Jetbikes, just ones that were all Scatter Lasers or Cannons.

>> No.53575233

>>53575152
>AM vehicles are the most common mass produced war machines in the imperium
>"Why does everyone have captured AM vehicles?"

>> No.53575236

>>53575202

Huh so it's more like a halfway point between a razorback and a land raider

14 power level is way less than a normal land raider

>> No.53575247

Post good Cadian proxies because cadians are ugly as fuck

>> No.53575249

>>53575207

Well yeah I've seen them in person next to a death guard from the box and a thousand son.

They seem to be fractionally taller than the new scale for marines, but only look outright fucking stupid next to shorter, older ones.

>> No.53575252

>>53575192
Tau's been broken for 6th and 7th.

>> No.53575253

>>53575198
When you fire with a unit you choose which weapons you fire first. In case of fire warrior squad with a squad leader that has light you shoot the markerlight first and if it hits you'll get the benefit for the pulse weapons.

>> No.53575259

>>53575227
How much are scatbikes now?

>> No.53575261

>>53575186
>>53575166
My bad I'm retarded

>> No.53575264

>>53575207
>Dat art
Holy balls of Guilliman.

>> No.53575272

>>53575247

A N V I L

I N D U S T R I E S

>> No.53575287

>>53575187
I would like to know how you would feel if your army's gimmick was that pretty much every other faction could take their stuff. And I mean taking EXACTLY their stuff, not similar versions like SM:CSM and IG-R&H, those are fine as they aren't direct copies and are often a bit weaker.

GSC just straight up gives you AM units to add to your list at no extra cost/downside. And looting vehicles is just an excuse to take the unique stuff everyone else has and giving it to Orks.

>> No.53575297

>>53575247

Here's my Cadian proxy.

My meta plays in a slightly different scale though.

>> No.53575301

>>53574883
>>53575017
Wu-Tang Clan

>> No.53575306

Is there an admech faction similar to inquisition or can they have inquisitor?

>> No.53575312

>>53574920
anyone?

>> No.53575313

First for all dread armies are for fridge fetishist waacfags.

>> No.53575314

>>53575259
37 instead of 27. So it's a 7 point upgrade.

That said, since it's a heavy weapon it's -1 to move and shoot. The Shuriken Cannon is Assault, and Bladestorm now works on vehicles. Also, the Farseer can guarantee Doom rather than having to randomly roll for it.

There's no move-after-shoot, but Fly means you can shoot after withdrawing. Eldar still get Soulburst.

>> No.53575315

>>53575144
What list builder? Is there one already?

>> No.53575330

>>53575202
Aren't squad sizes locked at 5? So 5 guys and maybe a gravis captain that counts as 2?

>> No.53575333

>>53575315
https://webapplications-webroster.rhcloud.com/rc/web/index.html#!/rosterCreator

>> No.53575349

>>53575202
>Makes co-axial weapons a thing again
>Gives them to new Primaris vehicle only

Yeah, fuck you too GW.

>> No.53575350

>>53575253
Huh, where's this written? This still doesn't mean I can go around exhausting all my lights first (even on shas'uis f.ex) and then go back to the grunts after everything yeah? 1 squad at a time.

>> No.53575351

>>53575287
>IG-R&H, those are fine as they aren't direct copies and are often a bit weaker.

>Orks should have gotten, any AM vehicles can replace Imperium tag with ORK, and <Clan> and reduce BS to 5+
>reduce BS to 5+
>reduce

>And looting vehicles is just an excuse to take the unique stuff everyone else has and giving it to Orks.

And? That's LITERALLY what Orks do. Add in Don't Press Dat and reduce BS5+ and it's not like looting Vehicles will break Orks

>> No.53575354

>>53575306
The Imperium is a single faction now so yes they can

>> No.53575356

Anyone know if there is a mega or torrent which have more of the audiobooks? The one in the links doesnt have that many.

>> No.53575365

What's the best way to deal with Predator Autocannon spam? I'm asking for a friend.

>> No.53575387

>>53575365
With whom?

>> No.53575395

>>53574806
http://www.anvilindustry.co.uk/AFTERLIFE/Republic/Republic-Grenadiers

>> No.53575405

>>53575247
https://madrobotminiatures.com/index.php?main_page=what_are_custom_squads

>> No.53575409

So this will be my 1500p list for now. Beat me internet!

Prime can't be targeted unless snipers.

Hormas consolidate 6" => holding enemys in place.

Gens having 4 attacks each and doing an additional damage if wounding on 6+ => killing everything and anything.

Venoms give -1 to hit the whole army.

rippers are just fillers. Sitting on a objective or whatever.

>> No.53575411

>>53575287
>IG-R&H
But that's the problem

Renegades and Heretics don't exist anymore

>> No.53575416

>>53575026
Very nice, I like your yellow.

>> No.53575420

>>53575026
I to, hate faces.

>> No.53575430

>>53574899
Anyone?

Are they just shit melee oblits?

>> No.53575444

>>53575333
>No Imperial Guard
:(

>> No.53575448

32 point difference between a quad Las predator and a Las Devastator squad I can't see where the squad shines except for the cover bonus and the ability to maintain movement and bs when wounded. Also looks like the cherub can eat a wound

>> No.53575468

>>53575192
Eldar was nerfed as hell. Warp Spiders are now boring infantry that can move slightly farther, Windriders can no longer jink or get out of LOS, grav tanks get NOTHING for being fast floating vehicles made with magical wraithbone and superior Aeldari technology.

>> No.53575470

So I'm looking at Matched play point tables, and I'm wondering why they didn't put the battlefield roles in the table as well? Surely it'll be nice to know what role a unit has at a glance, especially when you need roles to fill out detachments

>> No.53575479

>>53575365
Assault them with deep strikers or outflankers if your army has them, they either have to fight you with their shitty combat stats or fall back and not be able to shoot.

>> No.53575488

Would some SOB units work well in a mostly IG army? Would some IG units work well in a mostly SOB army?

>> No.53575496

>>53575430
They are ________________________quite ugly tbh_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

>> No.53575508

>>53575207
Does the vibe of this pic feel like Gillman is pulling a Superman Injustice and going full tyrant?
A huge statue of his face, what look like prisoners, glum colours.
Looks like grillimandark is back in 40,000.

>> No.53575511

>>53575409
Well, against my orks it'll pretty much just be a question of who gets the charge off first.

>> No.53575517

>>53575470

The whole point of matched play is to appeal to the autismos who like fiddling around with detail and flipping through the book.

If you want everything at a glance use powerlevels.

>> No.53575525

>>53575508
Shouldve said that these prisoners look to be also building the statue in some quarry.

>> No.53575526

>>53575508
Why is that guy holding a steering wheel?

>> No.53575527

>>53575508
That's just what 40k always looked like.

Gillybilly isn't making things better, just making sure they survive.

>> No.53575529

>>53575207
LOOK OUT BROTHER MANLET, YOUR PAULDRON IS CONSUMING YOUR ARM.

>> No.53575532

>>53575508
I like the picture
It seems to show that things are staying grimdark
Girlyman isn't here to make it noblebright

>> No.53575539

>>53575508
I don't think its Bob but his dad.

>> No.53575544

>>53575517
>points are for autismos
>the game totally hasn't been entirely based on that concept for decades
>use powerlevels instead
stop trying to force this meme, there's zero reason to ever use power levels for anything, not even narrative play

>> No.53575547

>>53574802
So now that I can take Tyranids and IG in the same army, what are some good shenanigans to get up to?

>> No.53575549

Is there any news on index: forces of chaos?
Will it include the IA14 Heretic guard?

>> No.53575550

>>53575470
Always remember this is the same company that thought it was a good idea to write points on the very back of the book and throw units wildly together instead of sorting them alphabetically, or at least from infantry to vehicles. And for some reason can't give everyone a codex at the same time.

>> No.53575552

>>53574899
They're fine, thanks for asking.

>> No.53575557

>>53575529
But that's a primaris marine.

>> No.53575561

>>53575529
>that plasma gun
That art dump was a real mixed bag.

>> No.53575563

>>53575529
>selective breeding ensures that this breed of space marine has the largest pauldrons available when deployed into battle.

>> No.53575568

>>53575526
Whoever drew it probably just got done watching Fury Road.

>> No.53575569

>>53575430
>4" movement on a melee unit
they're shit
they get 3 attacks and hit with S6 to 8 AP -1 to -3 and DMG 1 to 3
lots of randomization going, but even with the bottom end result they will be dangerous marines but not more
personally I don't like them and will stick with obliterators even though I like those less than their 7th ed version as well

>> No.53575572

>>53575085
Nice social interaction bro

>> No.53575578

>>53575549
That's in Astra Militarum.

>> No.53575581

>>53575529
Does that daemon's head double as a crossbow?

>> No.53575591

>>53575581
>bloodletters have a shooting attack in 8th
heh

>> No.53575601

>>53575561
What the fuck is that?

>> No.53575612

>>53575511
How many units do you have? If you got 9 or more I will get first turn if you don't steal initiative.

But yes, orks are very powerfull too.

>> No.53575613

>Power Fist
>Melee Sx2 AP-3 Dd3, -1 to hit, 20pts
>Thunderhammer
>Melee Sx2 AP-3 D3, -1 to hit, 20pts
Why would I ever take a Powerfist. The thunderhammer is straight-out better and the same price. Did I miss something?

>> No.53575618

>>53575601
Some sort of Ministorum assembly.

>> No.53575624

>>53575613
How is it better, when they both have the same stats apparently?

>> No.53575626

>>53575613
Isn't thunder hammer two handed? So with Powerfist you can take another weapon but with thunder hammer you can only take it?

>> No.53575641

>>53575624
based on what he listed
powerfist is D3 damage, so averaging 2
thunderhammer is 3 damage, so it seems to be hitting the powerfists maximum everytime

>> No.53575647

Can a Wraithknight kill a unit in melee, soulburst move, then consolidate 3"? Or is the consolidate negated?

>> No.53575655

>>53575624
powerfists have D3 damage
thunderhammer has 3 damage flat

>>53575626
it's onehanded, GW wouldn't break the thunderhammer + stormshield combo

>> No.53575658

>>53575655
>>53575613
Fist is 20
Hammer is 25

>> No.53575659

>>53575613
Availability
Not all squads can have thunder hammers and they're 5pts more expensive on characters

That and they may be two handed like >>53575626
Said

>> No.53575680

Helbrute, pure melee or melee and ranged weapon?

>> No.53575684

>>53574883
Count as gorkanaut.

>> No.53575686

>>53575561
>that priest
heh

>> No.53575691

>>53575641
Oh yeah, right. But I guess >>53575626 applies too, so you wouldn't be able to take a gun. Unless you're always in melee, I'd rather take a gun and the powerfist.

>> No.53575697

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8k6EpVUQIvUOHBfVGZ3bWIzUUU/
Bug calculator, git sum.
if i fucked anything please let me know

>> No.53575699

>>53575655
I know they're not two handed for termies, but for regular space marines?

>> No.53575707

>>53575658
Hammer is 25 only for characters. Sarge and Vanguard pay 20 for it.

>> No.53575712

Crusaders can no longer protect allies, have one wound.

Acolytes have three wounds(?!) and mortal-self-wound Look Out Sir for Inquisitors

DCAs have one wound, meager 5+/5++ no means of getting to combat safely without a transport.

There go all of my plans for having a fluffy ragtag henchmen squad for my inquisitor.

Also, why is the Xenos inquisitor bonus worse than the other two? Just because there are more xenos factions doesn't mean they're played in higher volumes. Xenos inquisitors also loss all access to interesting gear, the only thing we kept was the shitty needle pistol, which even acolytes can use now.


They then taunt us with an old photo of a fluffy henchmen squad led by an inquisitor.

And the horribly limited selections of psychic powers for everyone fucking sucks. I can understand reducing schools to three selections, but limited to one school on top of that sucks on ice.

>> No.53575727

>>53575626
>>53575659
>>53575699
No, nothing two handed about thunder hammers

>> No.53575734

>>53570523
> Hah, you missed me ya git! *looks down at dead grot and new bullet hole in himself* OK, ya got, but it 'din hurt!
>>53570839
> 'daptus cuk cuuukstodz. Is that one of those weedy fits that pushes a stick around in da humie boys huts?

>> No.53575735

So just how many people here actually come up with backstory to their force? I have been working on R&H based on Ultramar Auxilia corrupted by Khorne and started carving out their own nation between Ultramar and the Tau, and thought of expanding it some.
As well, someone assure me that R&H will be good, I've already started an infantry heavy army with Anvil industry heads and greenstuff shoulderpads.

>> No.53575740

>>53574895

More stolen Tau tech? You have no shame.

>> No.53575746

>>53575699
>>53575655
do the two-handed rule even exist in 8th? If so, I missed it.
>>53575659
you can have one on each sarge, + Vanguard Vets

>> No.53575754

Thoughts?

What's the point level everyone's looking at?

>> No.53575760

>>53575754
2000

>> No.53575762

Just some interesting numbers for you all

Sternguard vet with special issue bolter: 19 ppm

PA Grey knight with storm bolter: 21 ppm

Assuming rapid fire range and units of 10 guys each, firing against MEQs

sternguards: 20 shots, 13.33 hits, 6.67 wounds, 4.44 failed saves

Grey knights: 40 shots, 26.67 hits, 13.33 wounds, 4.44 failed saves

Sternguards have an extra 6" of range, grey knights can deep strike

Grey knights are better in melee.

Sternguards are better against marines in cover, (3.33 vs 2.22)

I'll leave it with no more commentary but I will say the storm bolter changes really do make PAGKs hit above their weight against non termies.

>> No.53575772

>>53575740
The Imperium has had anti-grav technology since before the Tau were cavemen-tier.

>> No.53575779

>>53575754
I still think 2K will be standard around my area but so many people had their armies crunched in points and for now Forgeworld units are unusable (REEEEEEEEEEEE), people are sticking to 1.5K for now.

>> No.53575783

>>53575746
>do the two-handed rule even exist in 8th?
I haven't seen it so far
rather than weapons having a two handed rule you get squad upgrades that only allow one weapon like the wulfen great frost axe

>> No.53575789

>>53575727
In that case it's a question of

A: can said unit take it.

B: Is 3D worth the extra five points

>> No.53575792

how exactly did riptides get nerfed?

>> No.53575795

>>53575468
for the non initiated:
Boring ---> no broken rules to exploit immediately standing out
Bland ---> cannot build deathstar on that
and so on

>> No.53575796

>>53575735
liked the Il Kaith craftworld fluff, so I just expanded on that a bit.
And created a really obtuse reference to Lobster Johnson for my striking scorpion exarch.

>> No.53575799

>>53575754
100 power! It looks like the best amount for the new game, leaves room for double knight + army.

>> No.53575802

>>53574895
the chassis looks fine, but the stupid amount of weapons on it is the problem.

>> No.53575816

>>53575601
A triptych.

>> No.53575817

>>53575192
On the plus side they are easy to get cheap right now.

>> No.53575820

>>53575712
>There go all of my plans for having a fluffy ragtag henchmen squad for my inquisitor.

I thought dca were ministorum? Don't Sisters vehicles allow ministorum infantry?

>> No.53575824

>>53575762

Also psycannons that move are only slightly (and I mean .22 of a wound) different than a storm bolter against T4.

Still have a lot of utility against T7 and 8

>> No.53575826

I'm thinking of actually getting that Mek blister thing and another Deff Dread and having it nestled between two Dreads as they advance up the battlefield. Could be good.

>> No.53575829

>>53575783
>>53575746
Nop, 2handed is gone, Heavy Thunder Hammer used to have it, no more.

>>53575802
Or the arrangement of them at least.

>> No.53575830

>>53575772

And you lost most of it. After Damocles, you have it again. Suspicious, isnt it?

>> No.53575831

>>53575795
Boring ---> Elite that acts exactly like a basic troop with extra movement.

>> No.53575839

A question for fellow tau players. On saturday i'll play a game against necrons. It's our first game of 8th edition wh40k so we're going for 1000 points lists. Opinions on this list?

double plasma+flamer commander with ATS

cadre fireblade

4 units of 6 firewarriors

3 units of 5 pathfinders

Crisis suit team with double fusion blasters and Multitrackes

assorted drones: which ones would be more useful in my situation?

>> No.53575840

>>53575754
>the list builder updated while I wasn't paying attention
>made that autistic calculator for nothing
Killing myself desu

>> No.53575842

>>53575712

If you're okay with a soritas rhino you can fit your inquisitor, some acolytes, crusaders and DCAs all in one vehicle.

>> No.53575854

>>53575826
Actually, how to the point costs on a dread work? So it already comes with 2 dread klaws. Are they both 30 points because their stock or is one 15 and one of the "subsequent" klaws?

>> No.53575856

>>53575783
No. However some models, like Death Company, replace both their weapons with one thunder hammer, whereas only a chansword is replaced with a power fist.

>> No.53575879

>>53575073
>enemy aircraft come screaming in
>drone lazily floats upwards
>gets sucked up into the engine
>flier explodes

yes

>> No.53575890

What the hell is up with people making it a big point in saying that they'll be playing a rule or the game a certain way when confronted with something they got wrong or didn't understand at first?

>> No.53575891

>>53575856
My bad, meant to reply to >>53575746.

>> No.53575902

>>53575820
They were previously part of Ministorum(SoB/Witchhunters books) and Inquisition.

It doesn't matter who "owns" DCA if you have no way to protect them outside of a transport.

Before you would buddy them up with Crusaders, who could protect them long enough for the DCAs to make it into melee combat. Now they're going to fucking die 9/10 before they get there, 5+/5++ be damned.

>> No.53575903

Oh shit Chapter Approved is back!

>> No.53575913

>>53575829
yeah its true, there's like 3 fucking guns and 50 missiles all jammed into that tiny fucking turret.

>> No.53575914

>>53575839

Agains Necrons? If they have the same stats as before, you are better of spamming as many S7 and S8 as possile.

>> No.53575916

>>53574899
How do you think a 4M assault model that only fits in a land raider is?

They're garbage. Worse than last edition.

>> No.53575918

>That fa/t g/uy opening stuff on GWs youtube page

Holy shit, he looks so happy.

>> No.53575922

>>53575890
autism

>> No.53575927

Valkyrie Grav Chute is now considered a disembark, -not- a deep strike.
Meaning guardsman can grav-chute anywhere within a Valkyries, 20'' move, and be 9'' away from their target, then move 6'', advance d6'' and fire assault weapons.
>Where were you when guard can put 3 command squads sporting 12 melta guns anywhere on the board whenever they choose.

Get fucked super heavy players.

>> No.53575929

>>53575830
Arkhan Land be praised, proving fishfaces wrong since the 31st milennium.

>> No.53575932

>most balanced edition is a filthy lie and they are going to demonstrate why using your anus tier
Imperial Guard, Necrons

>stronk tier
Ultramarines, Grey Knights, Tyranids, craftworld eldar, chaos marines

>good tier
Other marine chapters, Orks imperial knights, chaos daemons

>basically functional tier
Admech, dark eldar, sisters, inquisition

>well meme'd, my friend tier
Assassins.

>uhhh, did we hit him too hard? Is he ok? tier
Tau.

>> No.53575935

>>53575842
This doesn't fix crusaders not being able to do their job in protecting more frail units in shooting and melee. As soon as they step out of the box all hell breaks loose.

>> No.53575943

>>53575918
That limited edition book set looks incredible. I would be excited too.

>> No.53575962

Why do people hate on WAAC?
No one goes into a competition to lose or have fun, they do it to win.
Now if it's just a friendly game in the store with no stakes other than throwing dice then WAAC is whack.

>> No.53575968

>>53575932
>Ork Imperial Knights

Make it happen GW.

>> No.53575973

>>53575144
>>53575166

List builder?? Where??

>> No.53575974

>>53575922

fair point

>> No.53575978

>>53575916
I don't think they can be possibly worse than last edition. Play them in friendly games if you like the models y tho but don't buy them if you don't have them.

>> No.53575980

>>53575927
Doesn't disembarking count as a move now?

>> No.53575982

>>53575968
Looted knights never.

>> No.53575986

>>53575830
>After Damocles, you have it again. Suspicious, isnt it?

More like after Rowboat got a xeno waifu, the Imperium "rediscovered" Grav vehicles. THAT is suspicious.

>> No.53575987

>>53575962
Because 99% of the time they're talking friendly games you fucking mong.

>> No.53575997

>>53575902
Oh, I see, you're saying buying them a transport is now mandatory in your view. Gotcha.

>> No.53575999

>>53575962
>Now if it's just a friendly game in the store with no stakes other than throwing dice then WAAC is whack.
That's why. If you're playing in a tournament then squeezing every last bit of mathematical efficiency is to be expected. It's the WAACfags who bring their A-list to a friendly match with no stakes that are the problem. Typically they'll gloat about it, too.

>> No.53576005

>start playing tau right after fish of fury fiasco
>riptide codex comes out
>play 3 games and then suddenly my gaming group falls apart.
>don't play games without my group.
>group is thinking about getting back together for 8th edition and have reached out to me.

Please don't lump me in with triple riptide tau owners. I have always loved my armored company tau army.

>> No.53576006

>>53575754
Why using One One Eye if you don't use any fexes?

Why no Tyrand Guards? They take wounds of the Tyrand on a 2+. Making him much more survivable against big guns. Which he needs with the W6 damage they are doing.

Maybe you should think about toxin sacks to have more against T8 units with 16+ wounds like land raider or knights.

Other then that it's hard to say how good it will perform without knowing anything about the meta. Points are now computer generated and much more balanced so you can't fuck up THAT much.

>> No.53576024

>>53575350
Shooting phase rules. You select a squad that shoots and all targets that squad will shoot. Then you choose weapon(s) to fire, all the same guns go at the same time. Roll hit, wound and all that jazz and move over to the next gun(s). So you do have to use one squad fully before moving to another but you can use the light first to benefit the rest of the squad if you fire them at the same target.

>> No.53576026

>>53575997
Isn't overwatch still a thing now as well? If so, even charging out of a transport doesn't make sure they stay safe.

>> No.53576027

>>53575980
That's a negative.

>> No.53576033

>>53575932
>>uhhh, did we hit him too hard? Is he ok? tier
>Tau.

It's a Kelly shifts all the blame onto Tau to preserve his precious Aeldari. episode.

>> No.53576036

How are DEldar shaping up this edition? No longer low tier I hope?

>> No.53576037

>>53575986
I eagerly await imperial guardsmen half-eldar with las-shurikenguns and dire avenger armor with normal IG helmets.
And an eldar entombed in a dreadnought.

>> No.53576043

>>53575999
But unless you agree that it's a friendly game, aren't you expected to bring your A-list?

>> No.53576047

>>53574907
They look like a defensive weapon of some sort. Probably it can destroy missiles or nearby infantry.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Fist_(countermeasure)

>> No.53576051

>>53575935

Yeah, crusaders can still body block for inquisitors but that's acolytes job anyway.

>> No.53576054

>>53576026
You can charge with the transport itself first to tank the overwatch. Standard mech tactic in 8th.

>> No.53576061

>>53575795
Boring/Bland---> unit lost unique ability or flavorsome regular ability to become a space marine, as anything else is too complicated for 5 year olds.
Case in point: The shokk attack gun lost its mishap table. I think this makes it bland.

>> No.53576067

>>53576036
Good. The seem mid tier at.worst.

>> No.53576077

>>53576006
You're right about OOE and lack of fexes.
Would you use a swarmlord instead?

I mistakenly thought the hive guard could take wounds similarly as the tyrant guard like an idiot.

Where would you have the sacs?

>> No.53576079

>Marine with Primaris: I am growing stronger

>> No.53576084

>>53574832
Noteworthy, the helmet colour is the company indicator for this chapter

>> No.53576087

>>53576043
A lot of confusion could be solved this way, yes. That's exactly what I do when I'm setting up a game, I ask if we're bringing "friendly or mean lists." Saves a lot of butt hurt if you just establish it in advance, but people here are way too autistic to think of simple solutions like that, I guess.
Part of it is also that some people are genuinely just shit at the game, and what they think is effective is actually shit, so they whine online when they get trashed all the time. Like the local Ork player who swore by fucking Lootas, which have always been garbage, and then acted like it was so unfair when he lost.

>> No.53576088

>>53576047
That or just fancy new smoke launchers.

>> No.53576095

>>53576033
>>53575932
The annoying thing about tau is how some of their rules actually cancel out some of the basic rules.

Like how models can fire every weapon they have, unless one of those weapons happen to be a heavy marker light. which is annoying for stealth suits or cadre fireblades. i mean whats the harm in allowing the small arms fire from said units in firing at the same time as a marker light?

or how you can overwatch as many times as you like, UNLESS you use for the greater good, in which case you can't over watch at all afterwards.

why not just make the for the greater good overwatch be one time only. while defensive overwatch be unrestricted.


But i get that they were worried about how powerful tau had become.

>> No.53576098

>>53576077
>>53576006
also what's your opinion on Lictor/Deathleaper?

>> No.53576100

>>53576043
Depends.
In 7e my group would sometimes want to run something different (which usually would be suboptimal.)

We usually gave each other vague ratings. "Hey, want to play a game, bringing a goofy, well rounded, strong, etc. list"

>> No.53576111

"Delcare how you will split the shooting unit's shots before any dice are rolled, and resolve all the shots against one target before moving on to the next"

Strike team with Shas'ui with markerlight. 1 single target. So assuming this wording it's either.

A) Shas'ui can fire markerlight first, resolve it and the remaining squad can make use of the markerlight buff.

B) Since it's only 1 target, all shots targetting it must be fired at once. Resolve all together, they don't benefit from the buff.

Which is it?

>> No.53576114

>>53575151
No.

>> No.53576122

>>53576079
>Marine with Primaris: I am gaining brozuf

>> No.53576133

>>53576122

>> No.53576136

>>53575297

Cringe

>> No.53576145

>>53576111
They removed networked markerlights, so I'd assume the first, or skyrays are nigh-on useless.

>> No.53576148

>>53576067
That's good enough for me. I can't wait to tear into my SM friend.

>> No.53576161

>>53576133
His legs do not look okay

>> No.53576167

>>53575932
Guard are top tier you fool

>> No.53576175

>>53575973
google it.

>> No.53576179

Okay, am I the only one weirded out that the executioner and the punisher are the cheapest options for Leman Russes?

Especially since "Fire on My Target" Makes supercharging that executioner pretty safe?

>> No.53576185

>>53576087
Always good to be on the same page as your playing partners IMO.
>>53576100
You're right, a lot depends on your local meta. You can't be a WAAC-fag if everyone else is also WAAC-fagging, but if people normally play casual games at your shop, you have no business bringing cheese.
>>53575999
so basically don't be an asshole

>> No.53576199

>>53575306
They very much can. And lots of admech serve as acolytes for Inquisitors with an option of becoming one themselves.
Basically, unless an inquisitor has a pet monkey, he'll rely on admech quite heavily.

>> No.53576207

>They're not dice at all! They're little metal skulls.

>> No.53576210

>>53576027

Why are they outside?

>> No.53576214

>>53575712
I too miss the massive warband. I always wanted to run a hilarious blob mob of maxed everything.

>> No.53576217

>>53576061
What really?
That shit was the tits.

>> No.53576225

>>53576167

They are at the top in that list.

>> No.53576232

>>53575792
They cost 100p more per suit, their ion accelerators can't delete whole squads at whim and markerlights are arguably worse.

>> No.53576236

First list I'll run for 8th

Grey knights 1999/2000

Voldus

10 Paladins with 2 daemonhammers

Paladin ancient

Apothecary

10 man strike squad with 2 daemonhammers in a rhino with an extra storm bolter

10 man strike squad with 1 daemon hammer, incinerator and psilencer in a rhino with extra storm bolter

10 man interceptor squad with 2 incinerators

Razorback with double assault cannon

It's mostly just the stuff I have assembled already rather than any overarching strategy

>> No.53576237

>>53576077
Swarmlord is great. CC-killing machine and his movement buff is boss.
But he really needs guards because after 1-2 games your enemy will put everything he has into him.

sacs give +1 damage per woundroll of 6+. So best unit are genestealers. They have 4 attacks each if you have more then 10 in a unit and you get double benefit on a 6+

>> No.53576244

So

Mass Infantry or Tanks, which is best as Guard in this edition?

>> No.53576251 [SPOILER] 

>>53574895
>>53574907
>>53575802
sorry for my mediocre photoshop-fu, but I couldn't help it...

>> No.53576258

>>53576179
It's because the Executioner is mathematically not that great compared to other options. Overcharge is the only thing that makes it not complete garbage tier, so yeah, it's only okayish if you're spamming re-rolls of 1 to hit.
The Punisher is undercosted, so just be glad that you have at least one good option. The Demolisher is mathematically the best option against multiwound targets with at least a 4+ save or better.
Some guard-anon posted all the math and explained this a few threads back.

>> No.53576274

>>53576232
>arguably
They are worse.
You can't even use them to spam 3+ accuracy shots from fire warriors because their rifles are ap 0 and lack the numbers to force enough significant saves like orks.

>> No.53576277

>>53576251
Why should we forgive you when there is nothing to forgive?

>> No.53576279

>>53576098
It's sad they don't give and reserve bonus. But they are pretty good assassine units.
Think about how many armies rely on a character buff. If your opponent don't bubble wrap his important character Deathleaper can take him out and give you an advantage.

>> No.53576284

>>53576225
Correction I am the fool and the fag. I thought it was the other way around that Necrons and Guard would be violated in the anus.

>> No.53576285

>>53576251
Yes its perfect

t. GW

>> No.53576290

>>53575902
Lol they'll be fine. They need a transport, but tons if assault units do too
>>53575935
So it sounds like the complaint is that what used to be a brokenly good unit is only really awesome now.

>> No.53576293

>>53576251
>I am become dakka, bane and wet dream of ork-kind

>> No.53576298

>>53576251
Needs sponsons.

>> No.53576300

>>53576161
That's what happens when you cut your legs off to emulate the Skitarii legions who wore their shitty flesh legs to stumps clearing the surface of Mars of nasty gribblies.

Cult mandated amputation ftw.

>> No.53576303

>>53576251
this is how it would have been if it came out 15 years ago nice humblebrag btw

>> No.53576319

>>53575932

Ultra's have their own codex now?!

>> No.53576325

>>53576061
but he was talking about eldar, and the only unique abilities they lost were the ones that were a bit too much.
Jetbikes and warpspiders being super broken.

Striking scorpions get to appear out of nowhere. Swooping hawks still super fast and can drop grenades, and jump into the backfield and fly off.
Banshees actually even faster and better in combat.
Firedragons still hot death on a stick (not auto one shotting tanks, but that's just not a thing this edition).
Dire Avengers are kinda boring upgrades to the base troops, but they always were that.

>> No.53576328

>>53576251
I like it more than the real one

>> No.53576334

>>53576251
>I want to loot it

>> No.53576340

>>53576319
No.

>> No.53576343

>>53576319
It's called the Codex Astartes, yes.

>> No.53576348

>>53576293
Orks don't mind facing enemies with more dakka, that just means more dakka to loot after they win.

Unless they don't win, but that's okay because they had a good fight, so they win anyway.

>> No.53576349

>>53576258
>The Punisher is undercosted, so just be glad that you have at least one good option
Not really it's pretty good but not undercosted. The dakka taurox prime that does the same thing for two thirds the price is probably undercosted.

>> No.53576363

>>53576033
So the 6e and 7e narrative continues.

>> No.53576381

>>53576349
I just mean that it's undercosted compared to the other leman russ main guns. Should be 25-30 pts considering that it's objectively better against all targets than the rest, with the exception of the Demolisher being the best against multi-wound high save targets.

>> No.53576393

>>53575932
Why do you put Orks only in good tier? Boys spam with character support and burnas are amazing.

I would put DE much higher too. Attacking with vehicles to soak up overwatch then rip off your face with cc. or just use mobility and concentrate fire on your important units.

>> No.53576396

>>53576290
>Lol they'll be fine. They need a transport, but tons if assault units do too
Any assault unit with a 3+ can footslog in this edition with high degree of safety.

>So it sounds like the complaint is that what used to be a brokenly good unit is only really awesome now.
They were far from broken, you ditz. Mixed henchmen squads were our staple, and relied upon in the case of melee squads. Even when optimized, they were a few steps from being on even playing field with higher mid-tier assault squads.

>> No.53576401

>>53576251
It's zogging beautiful

>> No.53576421

>>53574901
Anvil Industires grenadier legs
>>53575007
To much work for me

>> No.53576429

>>53576277
>>53576303
thanks, anons. didn't want to catch a compliment, I think that contemptor-pimp-anon and some others did a better job. since 40kg has a critical crowd I wanted to take the wind outta the sails...

>> No.53576433

>>53576325
How exactly are Banshees better?

Striking Scorpions can finally be an effective tarpit unit, their weapons still suck, yay!

>> No.53576439

>>53576237
Thoughts?
Are warriors ever worth taking over sheer numbers?

>> No.53576442

>>53576340
>>53576343

That's a shame, Ultras shouldn't be in the same book as the lesser, plebian chapters.

>> No.53576450

>>53576298
fuck yeah! sorry, I am too lazy, someone else do it!

>> No.53576454

>Space Marines are going full noblebright with grav tanks
>It falls to us and our ancient models to remind the galaxy of the glorious Imperial grimdarkness

>> No.53576455

When do pre-orders normally go live in canada?

>> No.53576457

https://www.warhammer-community.com/warscroll-builder/

AoS scrollbuilder is up.

Any idea if we're getting one for 40k?

>> No.53576465

>>53574895
So I'm guessing -
>twin linked lascannon
>multilaser
>heavy stubber
>missile launchers
>whatever the minigun is
Frankly that's a lot of dakka compared to most space marine vehicles

>> No.53576473

Possession of the galaxy is mankind's birth right.
Xenos leave.
Traitors leave.
Daemons leave.

>> No.53576481

>>53576442
>not giving inferior chapters a chance to bask in the light of glorious spiritual liege

>> No.53576482

>>53576454
>Not embracing the new superior noblebright.

>> No.53576486

>>53576455

saturdays 1pm est

>> No.53576488

>>53575735
200 malitia strong here. Believe brother

>> No.53576490

>>53576442
How'd Roboute Guilliman react when he found out his nephews do a better job following his teaching than his own sons.

>> No.53576492

>>53576396
>Any assault unit with a 3+ can footslog in this edition with high degree of safety.
They may be safe, but they aren't going to be fat enough to catch anything your opponent doesn't want you to assault.
>>53576396
>Even when optimized, they were a few steps from being on even playing field with higher mid-tier assault squads.
You're kidding right? They wrecked things. I stopped using them and min sized special weapon acolytes to avoid feeling scummy.

>> No.53576493

>>53576454
[in a gadda da vida playing in the distance]

>> No.53576503

>>53576473

But he's cool with Yvraine

>> No.53576512

>>53576439
Warriors are ok. You can take a bio cannon every 3 models and splitfire it into something.
Like with most units they are best with their buff-character.

It's something that annoys me with the rules so far: every buff character gives basically the same bonus to a specific unit. So it's pretty much the same composition every time you take one because of the benefits.
That and any bonus beeing converted unit wide so building on combos is much much stronger then diversity in models or lists.

Get fucked creative players.

>> No.53576523

>>53576473
Mutants are allowed to stay right?

>> No.53576525

>>53576492
He's not kidding, he just doesn't play in your super casual meta.

>> No.53576531

>>53576486
Thanks, friendly anon.

>> No.53576536

>>53576490
>So hey...you autists realize that the codex was a guide book, not the rule of law? Right?

>> No.53576544

>>53576393

Orks are for sure the strongest good tier army. Moving them to weakest stronk tier wouldn't be too big a deal.

Delder are where they belong.

>> No.53576546

>>53576512
Yeah most of the buff units are "re-read 1's"
Yawn

>> No.53576560

>>53576503

She got monkey'd, so it's ok.

>> No.53576584

>>53576536
Classic Ultramarines, backpeddling when they know they can't compete.

Go ahead and take a backseat. We'll be the poster child for 8e.

>> No.53576594

>>53576393
>burnas are amazing
Only unit worth giving burnas to are Kommandos because they get it for free.

Orks suffer from almost all of their specialist units being dogshit AND overcosted.

Buggies and Flyers are the only things not absurdly overpriced outside of troops.

>> No.53576601

Can someone explain combi weapons in 8th edition to me? Fairly new to the game and I'm not sure what the advantage is. I'm looking at the helbrute datasheet in the chaos book and it says you can incorporate a combiflamer or combibolter into its Helbrute Fist. Would this allow me to shoot when I punch, or is this just mostly fluff?

>> No.53576613

>>53576503
Eldar are honorary humans.

>> No.53576629

>>53576490

One ultramarine scout has more value than your entire chapter, also your primarch was a weak autist

>> No.53576631

>>53576601
did you also check the wargear page to see what the weapon actually does? It sounds like you may not have.

>> No.53576636

>>53576601
>Would this allow me to shoot when I punch

It would allow you to shoot with it in the shooting phase.
Something like this.

>> No.53576644

>>53576433
move 8.
Always attack first.
wave serpents can now be assaulted from
-1 to hit in close combat.

as for scoprions. In melee they were always 70% just surviving to have the exarch do the killing, which they aren't quite as good at. But mandiblasters are better 1/6 a mortal wound before fighting. They can shoot while in melee. and don't underestimate the weight of s4 attacks they put out.

>> No.53576663

>>53576629
Is Cato getting PRIMED?
Is he getting killed off in the Dark Imperium novel?

>> No.53576674

Repost time:

So with the recent leak postings I knocked together a battlescribe file for marines/knights/fortifications last night. still needs work but the major building blocks are there. Thankfully most of the rules shared among data sheets are the same.

https://www.mediafire.com/?wp5lxhhgjp879mx

I just don't have the time currently to learn to into Github to put up a file repository, but this should do for a preview build. the terminator selection logic needs tweaks but should be servicable for the moment.

some rules have a shorthand for effect because of space or expediency.


Please reply with bug reports or votes on which faction I should do next once regular marine profiles are done, I need to look at something else for a bit.

>> No.53576688

>>53575962
Because historically GWs rules for 40K haven't stood up well to even half hearted stress testing. Plenty of other games use the same constraints and strategies in casual and competitive but with 40K you need a gentleman's agreement not to try too hard.

>> No.53576703

>>53576594
>significant changes in how hits, wounds, saves and break tests are resolved
>have less than a week to do test games
>can definitively say what is under and overcosted.
pick 2.

>> No.53576712

>>53574905

>> No.53576714

>>53576319

>> No.53576715

>>53576613
>Ynnari are honorary humans
ftfy

>> No.53576721

>>53576688
Must be where I developed, building a cheesy a list as possible and kicking your opponent's shit in was what was expected in my lfgs. But that was back in 5th so who knows howhat much they changed.

>> No.53576739

>>53575409
I'm not convinced. Here's my list:

Tank commander, LRBT bolterboat
Lord commissar, PP, PS
Company commander, BP, PS

6 x Infatry squad, PG, AC

Commissar
3 x Platoon commander

3 x Scout sentinels, HF

2 x LRBT bolterboat
3 x HWT, ML

You won't even get close.

>> No.53576744

>>53576167
>Guard are top tier but you don't like most changes because you were a mech company player.

Why GW did that to me

>> No.53576760

>>53576512
So what you're saying is warriors aren't worth dedicating the HQ slot to dropping the second tyrant for a prime?

>> No.53576763

>>53576703
>hits, wounds, saves and break tests are resolved
Nigger you joking? The only hard thing to call is the effictiveness of vehicles based on the average amount of antivehicle weapons that will see place.

Break tests for Orks is you get to ignore it until your squad drops to less than 10 models.

>> No.53576769

>>53576258
What he said about the others Lemans?

>> No.53576780

>>53576544
How exactly are Grey Knights or Ultramarines better then a Ork hord? You won't win any mission with GKs against a decent ork player. Holding objectives is per number of units. Even if a GK is unkillable the ork just has to feed him cheap units.

DE didn't lose as much to more costly vehicles as others and still get to spam dark lances and poison weapons. Destintegrator cannons just rape elite units. wyches can actually tie you in combat.
I can't see why they should be that low compared to most of the others above.

Also: Tau players cry too much. They are much harder to play now but if you can controll the middle and keep the enemy from your viable shooting units they aren't that terrible.
Won't say they are great but it's overdramatic how much hate they are getting.

>> No.53576803

So i take it that power is a loose ranking based off of a units durability where as points is an all round specific overview of a units capabilities.

thats sort of the feeling i'm getting.

>> No.53576814

>>53576780
>Even if a GK is unkillable
Ork fliers are absurd at killing GK's.
Ork fliers are absurd in general now.

>> No.53576821

Who got fucked the hardest? Tau or Tzeentch Daemons?

>> No.53576826

>>53576821
Tau.

>> No.53576827

Why is there no Grey Knights Start Collecting box?

>> No.53576830

Does this seem fun/decent/whatever for smaller games (my club typically plays 1000-1500 points)? Trying to get my dudes painted up now people hopefully won't refuse games as soon as they hear the word "tau", even though I never liked the big suits. Don't know if I've got too little infantry, is it worth dropping some drones & seeker missiles to try to shoehorn in another squad?

>Tau, Patrol detachment, 999/1000 points.

>HQ
Cadre fireblade - 42
2 Gun drones - 16

>Troops
11 Fire warriors (11 pulse rifles, 1 markerlight) - 91
2 Gun drones - 16

>Elites
3 Stealth suits (2 with burst cannon & ATS, 1 with fusion blaster & drone controller) - 122
2 Marker drones - 20

>FA
10 Pathfinders (7 pulse carbines & markerlights, 3 rail rifles) - 137
Recon drone, pulse accelerator drone - 30

>HS
Hammerhead gunship (railgun, 2 burst cannons) - 175

1 Broadside (heavy rail rifle, 2 plasma rifle, 1 seeker missile, shield generator) - 178
2 Missile drone - 40

>DT
Devilfish (1 seeker missile) - 132

Undecided whether the fire warriors or pathfinders ride the devilfish. If it's the fire warriors the drones run alongside, btw.

>> No.53576838

>>53576744
Mech as in vets in Chimera and Taurox and then tank Support?

Cause it's better now. There are heavy Support and elite based detachments. Not only that but you can have commanders and vets ride together so you can get orders for vets much easier.

Not to mention you can fire heavy weapons in the move with bs4+ and you get a bonus heavy flamer in addition to your 3 special weapons and 5 point sgt play pistol. Shit loads of dakka.

>> No.53576839

>>53576763
T4 now requires S8 to wound on 2+.
AP is completely changed, so stuff like 2+ armor isn't an all or nothing effect.
Moral isn't an all or nothing effect. (this is for everyone, not just orks)
No more initiative score so the "i2, orks are a melee faction" meme is completely dead.

>> No.53576851

>>53576821
why did Tzeench demons get fukt? I've not been paying much attention to 8th. Are my Khorne demons still okay?

>> No.53576864

>>53576827
No plastics

>> No.53576874

>>53576864
You high or stupid?

>> No.53576883

>>53576851
>why did Tzeench demons get fukt?

Summon spam, screamer star.

>Are my Khorne demons still okay?

Not really.

>> No.53576896

>>53576594
Burna boys get them for free (point costs basically included in the 14 points).
Them having AP-2 in melee is amazing too. Put them in a trukk and go ham.

I have a feeling you just looked at some profiles and point costs and don't consider any actuall useage on the battlefield.

Yes almost all ork units die fast and don't do stupendous amounts of damage. But just like DE you have to learn how to use a glass cannon effectively and not just waste it.

>> No.53576898

Can someone give me a quick rundown on why people are saying guard are top tier?

>> No.53576899

>>53576838
>>53576744
Sorry phone posting. plasma pistol not play pistol

>> No.53576911

>>53576251
Can we somehow combine these two?

>> No.53576914

>>53575189
Ouch, got any tips to improve on? Basecoat em with grey maybe? Thinner?

>> No.53576916

>>53576780

Ork armies are going to be big interlocking systems now. As long as they've got their big blob(s) out, the whole army will be ded 'ard. Once those blobs get focused down to size though, all the support units and what not will vaporize to morale.

If people end up packing less anti-horde weapons on average than I expect, this weakness may be less severe.

>> No.53576917

>>53576851

I think because now in order to create more squads (summoning) you have to spend command points.

>> No.53576922

>>53576874
>>53576864
>>53576827
No plastic HQ, AFAIK.

I could be wrong on that though.

>> No.53576924

>>53576911

>> No.53576931

>>53576851
Summoning was nerfed really hard in matched play, same with split. It's currently very hard to spam Psykers in 8th.

Chaos Daemons should be fine overall, you're just probably not going to run mono-god anymore.

>> No.53576932

>>53576814
my bad. I meant even if they would be unkillable. Which they are most certainly not.

>> No.53576934

>>53576827
There is
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-AU/Grey-Knights-Strike-Squad-10

>> No.53576935

>>53576851
so the really really stupid cheese shit that was powerful, but above all the worst to play against, is gone.

ie summon spam so your psychic phase takes 20+ minutes every turn, and an extra 20 minutes of set up.

now tzeetch actually plays the game, instead of stalling until the opponent just wants to go home.

>> No.53576943

>>53576898
Cheap everything. Cheap characters, tons of command points, cheap infantry, no tax on Conscripts, cheap artillery out the ass, easy access to snipers, cheap officers to spam orders, cheaper heavy weapons than Marines and many more to shoot and cheap deep striking cheap troops.

>> No.53576944

>>53576917
>you have to spend command points.
you mean actual points.

Summoning isn't free anymore. You need to set aside points to summon.
Its basically flexible deepstriking.

>> No.53576947

>>53576898
Heavy weapons teams.
Taurox.

>> No.53576948

>>53576465
>multilaser
fuck you Goto, they won't put multilasers on Land Raiders just to make your novels canon

>> No.53576951

>>53576830
Take gun drones for hammerhead instead of burst cannons. As long as the drones are attached to the tank their wargear count as wargear for the tank. So you get 8 pulse carbine shots at 3+ for 16p instead of 20p of two burst cannons. As an added bonus if your tank dies the drones have a good chance of surviving it.

>> No.53576963

This game seems nerve wracking with the way all the rules get reshuffled every couple years and your thousand-dollar-hundred-hour army can either become nerfed to shit or actually illegal to field. Why do people put up with that? Is it just the hope of their army getting better in the shuffle?

>> No.53576973

>>53576935
Psychic phase is also severely castrated, all of their shit costs more, and most of their army got a mini version of smite that can only be cast with 1d6 and a lasgun to compensate.

>> No.53576974

>>53576838
But now full infantry blob plus HWT are much much better now.

>bonus heavy flamer in addition to your 3 special weapons

But can't you do that since Vets are a thing?

>> No.53576978

>>53576935
Someone actually understanding anything about the game. Thank you kind sir.

>> No.53576987

>>53576944

>Summoning ain't free
>Daemons gotta be paid for with points from your list

>> No.53576989

>>53576944

My bad, thanks for correcting me! I'm a cron player so I'm not really paying too much attention to that kind of thing

>> No.53577005

>>53576963
Most people are in it for the fun

>> No.53577006

>>53576974
That's what I mean like vets can load the fuck up on weapons and get a commander to give an order to them. They have tons of fire power.

>> No.53577027

>>53576963
only company level sci-fi wargame.
decent models. fluff that is stupid but amazing.

It's not well balanced, but still pretty fun.

If your into focused tactical play, it's not the game to you.
If you want dozens of space knights charging giant monsters to kill them with chainsaw swords. it's the only game out there.

>> No.53577033

>>53576963

Looks like this time they didn't try to work with what wouldn't play nice in the old system and just scrapped it all.

Also seems like units are being tooled around with so they can be adjusted through playtesting.

>> No.53577037

>>53576944
Summoning requires you to pay for the models in advance. You then roll to be able to summon the unit based on their power level. Higher the power level, the harder to summon and if you flub it you take mortal wounds. This replaces deepstrike for demons.

Summoning is also god specific now (i.e. Tzeentch can't summon Slaanesh demons).

>> No.53577047

>>53576769
I found the post. I won't put all the math because it was a huge post, but here are the conclusions and ratings he put after the math:

Conclusions
>Demolisher cannon is the clear winner against multi-wound targets with good saves.
>Punisher puts out respectable and consistent numbers against pretty much everything else.
>Eradicator might be worth it against GEQs in cover, but is too weak to be considered otherwise.
>Exterminator suffers from low damage output across the board.
>Executioner is too weak against its intended targets unless you supercharge it, which is quite risky.
>Battle cannon is basically a mediocre demolisher cannon, but might be worth considering for its range and relative consistency compared to the demolisher.
>Vanquisher is entirely too piddly to ever consider, since it is outclassed by both the battle cannon and demolisher cannon, even against its own optimal targets

Top tier
>Demolisher
>Punisher
Mid tier
>Battle cannon
Situational tier
>Eradicator - only if you're expecting GEQs with cover saves
>Executioner - only if you have access to rerolling to-hits of 1
Shit tier
>Exterminator
>Vanquisher

>> No.53577055

>>53576739
You hit on 5+ with most of your army. All relevant units in my list move 8"+advancing and can still charge.
Genestealers have 4 attacks each, hitting on 3+, doing 2 damage and ignoring armour on every roll of 6+
Hormagants can consolidate 6", which you do twice in a combat (before and after attacks).

I'll have eaten most of your army by turn 2 my boy.

>> No.53577063

>Every vehicle in Necron rules has 3+ BS or better
>Except the Monolith with 4+

but why

>> No.53577069

>>53576963
I'll tell you what the guy in the tabletop told me when I started.
"Don't pick up whatever's most powerful, pick up something you will have fun playing or what looks the coolest to you. If you pick up a bad army it will eventually get better but op shit will definitely get weaker."
And that's how I picked CSM in 6e

>> No.53577078

>>53577037
>Summoning requires you to pay for the models in advance
this is wrong.

You put aside X points that you use to pay for summoned units.

Like I said, its basically flexible deepstriking, since you can summon what you need as you need it.

and any chaos character can summon now (iirc)

>> No.53577083

>>53576963
>actually illegal to field
Very rare and even then you can almost always pic up a box or two that will let you field your old guys just fine.

>> No.53577091

>>53576839
And how is any of that something thats hard to disdern? Weapon profiles and "whats good" is even easier to tell at a glance under the changes.

Orks suffer from your units still having almost no saves, hitting everything on a 5+. That combined with specialist ranged weapons all being incredibly overpriced in the wargear section.

With the removal of template weapons, less reliance on morale tests, and the price hike of trukks, you really just want to blob. Fliers are all strong now due to the free bombs they get even if they struggle to hit anything and get WORSE at doing so as they take hits.

Hell just look at Warbikers vs Warbuggies.

Theres literally no reason to ever bring Warbikers over Buggies. What fucking retard at GW thought not giving Ork Bikes the ability to benefit from Waaagh was a good idea?

>> No.53577095

>>53576963
This is the first big rule shuffle in over a decade. No lists were invalidated and the broken armies were nerfed because they needed to be.

Most people just play for fun.

>> No.53577100

>Lady Atia "Let's say so much - you will be getting some new tau stuff that's not directly part of the t'au empire "

>> No.53577102

>>53577063
No pilot.

>> No.53577103

>>53576973
1 in 3 chance of 1d3 mortal wounds on cheap survivable basic troops.

Also, it's not about powerlevel. It's about the summoning list being the worst thing to play against. Other cheese lists might table you by turn 3, but at least the game was over.
summon cheese made you sit there while your opponent played with themself.
I enjoy games I lose against other armies more than I enjoyed games I won against summon spam.

>> No.53577112

>>53577100
KROOT SUIT RIOT CONFIRMED

>> No.53577128

>>53577047
I wonder if the GSC vanquisher stats (S9) make it a situational option.

>> No.53577129

>>53577102
Did they always not have pilots? Genuinely curious. I always figured someone or something was driving the damn thing.

>> No.53577135

>>53577047
Thanks you very much anon.

>Exterminator shit tier
Holy shit i though it would be considered much better since it have more consistent number of hits/damage

>> No.53577137

>>53577100
Any word on chaos or morty?

>> No.53577141

>>53577091
Orks hit in cc on 3+ or 2+. And there are weapons that hit automatically.
Orks are cheap or have multiple wounds (and sometime power armour).

You never played a mass cc-army did you?

>> No.53577157

looted wagons WHEN

>> No.53577170

>>53577103
Am I the only Tzeentch daemon player who didn't use summoning spam in 7th and is primarily upset with 8e because I've lost most of my mind dakka with half my army now becoming the melee units I deliberately choose Tzeentch to avoid?

>> No.53577174

>>53577100

Probably new xenos auxiliary, maybe some of them exclusive to the 4th Sphere of Expansion colonies.

>> No.53577176

>>53577137

>> No.53577180

>>53577055
5+ to hit doesn't matter when I have that many shots. And no first turn charge for you because you need to get past my scout sentinels fist. 20 stealers make about 8 unsaved wounds to them and then you have to deal with russes. Oh, and you are under fire from my infantry and hwts all that time. Still not convinced.

>> No.53577182

So how are Orks and Nidz faring so far in 8th, I remember hearing they were the worst armies by far in 7th so just been wondering

>> No.53577185

>>53576830
I'd personally lose the stealth suits for more fire warriors, and if i wanted to keep a fusion blaster i'd get a piranha instead. Piranha is half the price of the stealth suit team but tougher and as many wounds and faster. same amount of shooting at same range at same bs too. and it'll be 40 points cheaper that way you can include another minimum strength firewarrior unit and even get to keep the marker drones. and if you feel like adding to that firewarrior team you can pinch a few points from saving on some things.

remember you'll also get the two drones on the piranha as well.

>> No.53577215

>>53577182
Orks are great footslogging and in the air, decent in vehicles
Nids are the new WAACfags

>> No.53577218

>>53577055
You don't consolidate your movement before attacks, you can move everyone 2" towards the nearest enemy unit if at least part of your unit is within 1" of part of theirs.

>> No.53577227

Stats. The pintle weapon is optional and just a rotor Cannon, so you can leave it off if you don't like the look.

>Power level 14

>S7 T8 W13 Sv3+
>Turret - Heavy Lascannon, Heavy Stubber
>*Resolve shots with Heavy Stubber first, if the Heavy Lascannon targets a unit hit by the Stubber, it may reroll misses

>Hull-mounted Twin Lascannon, swivels up/down and left/right

>Rotor cannon is a pintle mounted upgrade

>Missiles: Roll a D6 at the start of each fight phase for each enemy unit within 1", on a 4+ it takes D3 mortal wounds (slightly better Frag Assault Launchers)

>Transport Capacity 7, can only transport Primaris Marines

>Decays its Movement/BS/Attacks as it loses wounds
>Movement 10" BS 3+ Attacks 3 base

>> No.53577231

>>53577091
because your short hand you use for evaluations is off.
That shorthand is a trained intuition. Which are good, but take time to retrain.

You look at survivablity, but your trained intuition says "oh those things die this fast", but that intuition isn't going "s6 and 7 only wound on 3". You know that to be true, but your intuitive short hand isn't using that.
Your intution is saying "I only have a 6+ save, so no save", because it hasn't locked in that "bolters and other base guns no longer ignore that 6+ save, so I actual do drop loses from those by 5/6s".

You look at prices of wargear and you're standard of 'overpriced" is based off of your memory of cross faction prices from the last edition, not the current edition.

You're talking about toning of things, and until you test it you should not trust your instincts on those things. This is the way the brain works. Evaluation instincts have biases, some of them trained. You should not trust them too much outside of the parameters that trained them.

>> No.53577250

>>53577129
>Did they always not have pilots?

Yes.

>> No.53577259

>>53577100
CHAOS TAU CONFIRMED.

>> No.53577270

>>53577170
yes.
I hate to say it but yes.
In my experience, nurgle players were always cool and put a shit ton of effort into making their models look amazingly disgusting. And tzeetch were always the worst.

Admittedly, small sample size so high variance, but there were no fucking counter examples.

>> No.53577276

>>53577250
Oh. Well never mind then. Thanks for clarifying.

>> No.53577301

>>53577180
>thinking I can't just go pass the scout sents with my superiour movement.

Just do the math. Hitting on 5+ is huge. It's litterally only 1/3 of your shoots hitting instead of halve.
Anything the gens touch will die. 80 attacks hitting on 3+, wounding your infanterie at 3+ and your vehicles on 5+.

And don't let me start on the game beeing mostly about objectives which you hold if you have superiour numbers.

>> No.53577312

>>53577227
>can only transport primaris marines

This feels really stupid

>> No.53577327

>>53577095
>No lists were invalidated

Sisters that lost their command squads tell me otherwise.

>> No.53577328

>>53577185
Wasn't sure about the piranha, I actually thought the opposite to you: that it looked pretty fragile, while the stealth suits might take some shifting with their armour save (up to 2+ in cover, which they can get more easily than the piranha) and -1 to hit.

But overall, do I definitely need more fire warriors then?

>>53576951
Sadly, dumbass younger me built it that way before reading the rules. Is the difference so great that it's worth cutting the model up?

>> No.53577336

>>53577170
No. Contrary to what anons think, Daemon tourneygits won not by summoning but by buff-stacking atop Plague Drones and Screamers and stealing objectives.

>> No.53577339

>>53577227
Do you think it's Heavy Support?

>> No.53577342

>>53577227
You're a fucking rotor cannon.

>> No.53577343

>>53577312
How so?

>> No.53577348

Can you take an invulnerable save against Mortal wounds?

If a unit of company ancients that have storm shields use their bodyguard ability can they use that storm shield to save the Mortal wound?

>> No.53577358

>>53577170
>Am I the only Tzeentch daemon player who didn't use summoning spam in 7th and is primarily upset with 8e because I've lost most of my mind dakka with half my army now becoming the melee units I deliberately choose Tzeentch to avoid?

In the same boat here. Ran witchfire heavy Tzeentch for several editions and probably summoned maybe 200pts total over all of 7e.

Just to find out my Screamers, Exalted Flamers, and Pink Horrors got a lot worse.

>> No.53577362

>>53577348
No saves of any kind against mortal wounds.

>> No.53577363

>>53577348
No. Mortal Wounds ignore Invulnerable saves.

>> No.53577368

>>53576421
thank you beautiful anon

>> No.53577376

>>53575943
im dying to know the price so i can budget accordingly

>> No.53577382

>>53577047

it triggers me how bad exterminators are now.

and how bad leman russ in general are.

>> No.53577400

>>53577362
>>53577363
So if I was going to try to tank wounds a squad of company veterans with an apothecary would be the most effective way?

>> No.53577405

>>53577358
Theres so many Nice Players on 40kg now. i bet in a month there won't be anyone here who ever owned even one riptide.
Fuck you stop trying to impress anons.

>> No.53577409

>>53575980
No, but you have to do it before the transport moves.

>> No.53577420

>>53577362
Unless you're Eldar. Farseers have the ability to ignore Mortal Wounds on 5+. All Mortal wounds, not just those from Perils mind you.

Incidentally, Doom lets all their allies re-roll to wound an enemy unit.

>> No.53577430

>>53577405
Not my fault your local meta is a WAAC infested cancerhole

>> No.53577436

>>53577343
Primaris marines not being able to ride in some normal space marine vehicles could be reasoned as them actually being too big.

The inverse really shouldn't be true for space marines trying to ride in a space that's too big for them.

>> No.53577444

If Primaris Marines have three extra implants and Imperial Fist lineage Marines have two fewer implants does that mean than an Imperial Primaris Marine is basically a normal Space Marine?

>> No.53577450

>>53577328
its just a fusion blaster sort of implies a more offensive role. I just prefer to have a fusion blaster on a really mobile unit either a deep striking crisis team or a piranha.

I was also thinking about getting you your second troop since you're pretty low on numbers there. and you need two troops in most forces and if you're just parking in terrain then 5 firewarriors will still get 3+ saves in terrain while being able to shoot further than the stealth team.

Its just personal preference on units in the end however.

>> No.53577451

>>53577420
Anyone with the "new" fnp equivalents can. Nurgle stuff, Death Company(6+), Dark Eldar(6+), etc.

>> No.53577457

>>53577444
>3 + (-2) =

>> No.53577463

>>53577444
He's still just a marine who can't spit.

>> No.53577468

>>53575831
>>53576061
Sorry your netlist broke, go have your mum make you some tendies, you'll feel better.

>> No.53577480

>>53577436
Not really true.
What if the seats are too big for regular space marines?
Where are the Primaris Marines riding if they can fit in the little marine transports?

>> No.53577491

>>53577227
>can only transport Primaris Marines

I guess it was too much to ask Cawl for a fucking foot stool to be installed so the manlet marines could get in and out

>> No.53577497

>>53577231
>Your intution is saying "I only have a 6+ save, so no save", because it hasn't locked in that "bolters and other base guns no longer ignore that 6+ save
Because we aren't talking about boyz.

Your lootas and flashgitz have a 6+ save. Your bikes have a 4+ with no jink.

You dont give a fuck about boyz dying when something looks at them because they are immune to morale and are dirt cheap. You care one hell of a lot more when your 40-50 point model dies from a slight breeze, especially when you could have just bought more boyz.

You can look at the cost of units compared to the cost of other units, its not goddamn rocket science.

>You cant use intuition
Motherfucker what kind of stick up your ass do you have to think your toy soldier game is some kind of crazy deep game where you cannot look at the simple profiles and costs and derive its value?

The only thing you cant spitball is how durable vehicles are due to them being weaker overall so armies will pack less anti armor.

>> No.53577501

>>53577463
>"We do not spit" -Imperial Fists

>> No.53577502

>>53577405
/shrug. Responding to the guy who asked if he was the only Tzeentch player who didn't summon spam

Honestly I missed 6e the most for Horror spam

Two squads of 20 Horrors both with a Herald with Conjuration Loci.

Prescience each squad with the Herald. Then unload 3d6 S6 from the Herald and 4d6 from the Horrors. Blasting Banner for an additional 2d6.

Sure my opponents had (at least) a 6+ to ignore my Powers, but it was still satisfying.

Then 7e limited to one power per unit and made Horrors casting Flickering Fire redundant as they had lower BS. (Not taking into account that there was never enough dice for every Psyker.)

>> No.53577513

So Tzaangors are pretty good, right? 5++, +1 move, -1 rend on default weapons and T4 for 6pts sounds like a pretty decent deal.

Although they seem to be weak against battleshock, so taking them in units greater than ten is probably not a good idea.

>> No.53577522

>>53577491
>Implying a Primaris marine would stoop so low as to let manlet marine into their hover transport.
>Implying they'd lower their hover tank that low to the dirty ground
>implying they don't hover just out of reach of manlet marines and laugh as they beg for a ride.

fucking manlets think that they deserve shit.

>> No.53577527

>>53577400
Stand the apothecary behind the veterans. You can choose which model the wounds go on, but if one model already has suffered a wound he has to take them first. Pick the most expendable guy to die first. Mortal wounds do spillover however.

>> No.53577530

>>53576457

2019

>> No.53577543

>>53577227
The coaxial ranging gun with tracer rounds is neat. Actual, if outdated, tank tech.

>> No.53577556

>>53577227
So the space marine tank with a lascannon has an option for a coaxial weapon that lets it reroll misses but the vanquisher doesn't?

>> No.53577560

just got off phone with local GW, $420 USD for the Limited Edition rulebook

>> No.53577567

Is there a list builder up for everyone in 8th yet?

>> No.53577581

Did GW release those free core rules already?

>> No.53577582

>>53575409
You need two HQs with a Battalion

There's no reason to take a prime over a broodlord with no warriors and that many stealers just dump a few horms and the rippers to make up the points

You will never keep all of that in synapse with one slow 8" range synapse creature

You have no fucking psykers in a psyker army

You will lose on objectives because everything will charge towards the nearest enemy with IB outside of the 8" bubble on the one Prime who can pretty easily be sniped

Newnidfags pls go. You make the old hive fleets look bad.

>> No.53577595

>>53577451
no, as much as people like to say 'they're all worded the same', they aren't.

some say only mortal wound (farseer). some say only wound (not including mortal wounds) DE. Some say wound or mortal wound (avatar of Khaine).

From AoS, I assure you, if it just says wound, and not 'wound or mortal wound', it does not protect against mortal wounds.

>> No.53577606

>>53577063
Note because of Q-Shields a Doomsday Ark is more survivable than a Monolith to anti armor(d3 and d6 wound shit) and about half the cost.

>> No.53577608

>>53577527
It's gonna be Vulcan hestan so he can buff the flamers and meltas in the squad and I'll keep 5 as extra wounds for him the apothecary can then revive or heal as needed gonna throw em in a land raider redeemer for that sweet flamer action

>> No.53577613

>>53577543
>>53577227
So the MarineMarines' MarineMarineMobile can have a coaxial gun for its main gun but the Vanquisher and Baneblade variants can't? Fucking hell.

>> No.53577614

>>53575247
Just use Arcadians from Victoria
They're resin remakes of the metal cadians.

>> No.53577625

>>53577581
should be tomorrow

>> No.53577626

>>53577491
>>53577522

HER NAME IS YVRAINE

I HAD A DREAM ABOUT HER

SHE RINGS MY penis

>> No.53577664

>>53577560
Thats bullshit but I believe it

>> No.53577667

>>53577606
Quantum Shields are trolling incarnate. It's like Trollzyn-pattern frustration generator.

>> No.53577668

>>53577626

HE LIVES ON MY BATTLEBARGE

AND DRIVES A TAUROX

>> No.53577700

>>53577047
I think the Eradicator will be good. No idea how strong cover will be in this edition and for some units and some units will get +2 cover.

>> No.53577706

>>53577497
>do you have to think your toy soldier game is some kind of crazy deep game where you cannot look at the simple profiles and costs and derive its value?
no I'm saying you totally can. It's skill you train your rapid thinking intuition to do. There are a lot of those. You and I have both done this.
But we did this under a different framework, and we haven't had a chance to retrain our framework.

When you do fast calculations and complex comparisons, your using a process of thinking that's extremely powerful and very trainable. But it's prone to biases and shortcuts, and unlike the slower thought process doesn't point out those shortcuts.
And right now your trained shortcuts are out of date.

It happens, to everyone. It's like when you go to country where they drive on another side of the road, or a new car with gas pump on the other side. Your brain will start to do it's rapid processing, and you'll make mistakes and have to catch yourself.

You're in the same situation thing here. Everything is off a little bit. You can absolutely learn these things, they aren't even that hard. But you haven't had a chance yet to retrain your instincts.
Be very tentative about your 'sense' of how powerful or expensive things are, because that's using intuition that's not currently up to date.

>> No.53577725

>>53577382
Lemans are just as okay as they always were. They weren't great in 7th, they were very okay.

The real shiners this edition are Taurox and Taurox prime, the Basilisk and Manticore. Everything else is solid to okay.

>> No.53577729

>>53577301
>Just do the math
I did. You kill the sentinels, losing some stealers during the process. That's a turn. Then you have to kill my russes, which you wound at 6+, thus they have a decent chance of survival and killing some stealers, even if in a couple of wounds left. That's turn two or likely three. Then my infantry deals with the remaining stealers and that's pretty much a game because I still have most of my firepower and you have lost your main attack group. And I didn't even concider siezing the initiative, which I can reroll, effectively doing it at 5+.

>> No.53577740

>>53575314
>There's no move-after-shoot
Goddammit that was the entire schtick of jetbikes.

>> No.53577746

>>53577664
Truth, very very depressing Truth....

>> No.53577752

>>53577667
>mfw there were literally necronfags bitching that quantum shields were bad when the leaks first came out because ~75 bolter shots could kill their barges if it never got a chance to regen Wounds

>> No.53577759

>>53577218
>You don't consolidate your movement before attacks, you can move everyone 2" towards the nearest enemy unit if at least part of your unit is within 1" of part of theirs.
its called pile in, its normally 3", its before attacks, and hormagaunts can do it 6"

>> No.53577763

>>53577625
Much appreciated m8.

>> No.53577764

>>53577725
Why're the Tauroxes good now?

>> No.53577779

Guilliman is going to kill Mortarion.

>> No.53577784

>Stealth suits are the new Crisis.

>> No.53577788

>>53577706
This, so much. People are still thinking in terms of 7th edition, but so many of our analytical shortcuts went out the fucking window with the new core and it'll be a LONG time before any of us have a good set of data to be able to compare points costs vs effectiveness again.

>> No.53577790

>>53577327
What could command squads take that other squads can?

>> No.53577791

>>53577763
so im getting ahead of myself and traveled 2 weeks into the future...ya..will be available on launch day

>> No.53577795

So what's everyone betting for the ETA on an Ork codex?

My guess is 2-3 years.

>> No.53577797

>>53577764
The prime. It's a fairly cheap vehicle with a gun that's the same stats as the Leman Russ Punisher main gun. 20 shots S4.

>> No.53577803

>>53577740
Can crisis suits and warp spiders still shoot n'scoot, anyone?

>> No.53577804

New player here looking into an army for 8th, my original interest was Harlequins, but I wanted to make sure I'm understanding these changes properly.

It seemed before like a Harlequin army would pretty much force an enemy in range with the Shadowseers' primaris power, but now they have neither a means to protect themselves from long range nor the crazy attack steroids (solitaires, at least) that they used to. That being the case, what exactly is their strength now that justifies their point costs?

>> No.53577811

>>53577764
Fast, 4 Autocannon shots and Taruox Prime has 20 shot gatling gun plus 4 Autocannon shots.

>> No.53577818

>>53577803
No

>> No.53577819

>>53577752
I'll admit to being of them. Necron vehicles look incredibly frail and they are, against light AT. Yet they are so fucking hard to kill with heavy AT. How that will turn out will depend on the meta but if autocannon spam becomes meta, we can simply play Monoliths.

>> No.53577821

Is it tomorrow for white dwarf as well, or next week?

>> No.53577822

>Skitarii lost Crusader
>Can't enter any transport in the Imperium
>Have to wait for Fires of Cyraxus in the hope of getting transport
>It's never coming

>> No.53577823

>>53574895
I dig it
Is that a Primaris on the top? are Manlet Marines reduced to vehicle crew now? :^)

>> No.53577826

>>53577706
>He can't do Ork math
A Stompa is 150 Boyz.
Tankbustas are 2 Boyz.
Would you rather have 2 Boyz over 1 Tankbusta? If so then its worse.

>> No.53577840

>>53577821
at launch as well according to last months

>> No.53577851

>>53577668
I'M JUST A BALD MARINELET BABY

YEAH I'M JUST A BALD MARINELET BABY

COME PLAY 7TH EDITION

MAYBE WITH ME

>> No.53577852

>>53577822
It's probably coming incredibly soon, actually. The reason they held off was because they didn't want it to be immediately rendered useless by 8th edition and have to write it all over again, so you can bet they've been translating it over all this time instead and it should be good to release shortly after they get all their indexes out in june

>> No.53577861

>>53577818
Urgh. I get the whole streamlining thing, but that seems a bit anti-fun.

>> No.53577866

>>53575314
>>53577740
also, there is the hidden nerf to scatterlaser (and to a lesser extent shuriken cannons).
S6 no longer wounds T4 on a 2+.

Also for jetbikes, jinking is no longer a thing.

For farseer and warlocks adding a jetbike is now significantly more expensive (50+pts for farseer, 40 for warlock, this does not include the cost of the twin spault).

other significant change, warlocks are now no longer restricted to guardian squads, they move freely and their powers buff any unit within 3".

Wraithlords have a good reason to take spaults over flamers now. and in general seem better.

>> No.53577867

>>53577804
Use their transports. Keep in mind that Harlequins aren't really designed as a fully realized force on their own but are intended to supplement other Eldar options. They're probably strongest in Ynnari.

>> No.53577868

How can the new fluff be this objectively bad? Like holy fuck who is writing this shit? It feels like an entirely different setting, like a fanfiction.

>> No.53577883

>>53577861
4U taudarfag

JSJ was the definition of anti-fun for everyone else. Literally such gamey bullshit.

>> No.53577889

>>53577868
>feels like fanfiction
It's 40K lore alright.

>> No.53577892

>>53577803
No. Only the Riptide if he's willing to suck a mortal wound.

Instead they get fly which lets them fall back from melee and still fire that turn.

>> No.53577893

>>53577595
>From AoS, I assure you, if it just says wound, and not 'wound or mortal wound', it does not protect against mortal wounds.

Depends on the wording even still

Disgustingly Resilient (nurgle feel no pain) says "every time this model loses a wound"

Molten body says "Everytime the avatar suffers a wound or mortal wound"

the difference being between "suffers a wound" and "loses a wound".

if it triggers off wound loss, you can take it against mortal wounds, if it triggers against suffering a wound, you cant take it against mortal wounds unless it specifies.

>> No.53577894

>>53577826
do you know if you want 2 boyz over 1 tankbusta?
how do you know?
that's where you are using the shortcuts.

>> No.53577895

>>53577868
>objectively
I don't think you understand what that word means, anon

>> No.53577901

>>53577868
It's been this way since 5th, where have you been?

>> No.53577909

>>53577895
Writing can be objectively bad and if you think it can't, then you are dumb.

>> No.53577911

>>53577883
What, even before the OP codexes? I don't recall anyone complaining in 5th.

>> No.53577915

>>53577895
No I think he does

>> No.53577916

>>53577867
Hm, I had considered that option, though their loss of Rising Crescendo concerned me quite a bit.

I do very much like what I've read of Ynnari in terms of fluff, though, so I'll have to see how their playstyle looks and figure some things out from there.

>> No.53577928

>>53577779

two digits off being a meme my friend.

>>53577797

nah the punisher is str 5

taurox being good now is due to doubling its firepower whilst also not just being swept off the table by anyone that looks at it funny.

>>53577851

COS GUILLIMAN DOESNT KNOW WHO I AMMMM

AND HE DOESNT GIVE A DAMN AHBOOT ME

ive got two thunderhawks to the iron cage baby

come with my yellow bros and dont say maybe

>> No.53577940

>>53577822
>Use Elite detachment
>2x20 Peltasts in Triaros
>Two Arquebus teams with Omnispexes
>Snipe leaders, Neutron antitank, unleash barrage of flechette doom and deepstrike Thallax onto objectives.

Gonna be fun.

>> No.53577944

>>53577894
>do you know if you want 2 boyz over 1 tankbusta?
Yes, more boyz means more reliable leadership and more free Nobz.
Also a fair amount of shots on run and shoot. The fact that twin linked anti-infantry guns are super rare now compounds this fact.

>> No.53577952

>>53577895
Nah, I'm with him on that.
Back in the day 40k was over the top, but was very good in finding the right balance between satire, self-awareness and good storytelling.

The new stuff takes itself way too seriously, while telling poorly thought out stories.

I mean you can be shit, but have humor about it and still make it work.
If you are shit, but think you are THE shit then you are in fact just shit.

>> No.53577954

>>53577804
harlequins now have a 4++ and run and charge from turn one for +1ppm (iirc)
they now get furious charge all the time in the form of s4 weapons, and their weapons now have actual AP values, instead of relying on gimmicky rules (6s to hit, hammer of wrath, single attacks)

Shadowseers have a -1 to wound aura, which is awesome
all their non-infantry have a -1 to hit aura, which is awesome

Harlequins are super fast, can advance and charge (so 18" + 2d6 threat range on bikes), and have other ways to move fast (solitair, twisint pathways on shadowseers)

>> No.53577961

>>53577822
>Be Skitarii
>Don't walk

You're just some no respect little punk, huh?
I hope the machine spirits in your knees recognise your perfidy and shut you the fuck down.

>> No.53577965

>>53577911
Being able to move out from total concealment, fire all your weapons, and then move back in before the enemy can return fire, only because the game is necessarily turn-based when it's supposed to abstractify everyone acting simultaneously, is total horseshit, and always has been.

>guns sights trained on the corner of the building, ready to fire to pin down the jetbikes/suits as soon as they come into vision
>taudarfag shit comes into vision
>instead of pulling triggers, guys waiting to shoot have to sit there going "sir, why can't we fire?!"
>"because it's not our turn yet soldier"
>taudar garbage sits there unloading a full salvo of fire unmolested until it's done shooting all of its guns
>goes back behind wall again
>?????
>you're a fucking faggot

>> No.53577997

>>53577909
it can, but I'm guessing he's not using the few objective standards.
and even those objective standards can be violated for good writing under certain situations.

Run on sentences are bad, unless your James Joyce and that's the point.
Lack of clarity in vocabulary and grammar is bad, unless it a Clockwork Orange.
Violating the established narrative is bad, unless you're using the technique of the unreliable narrator.

Hell, in 40k I can use an example where using objectively bad writing is great. The sections in Ciaphas Cain where your reading memoirs of Sulla are great because they are so bad.

>> No.53577999

>>53577909
>Writing can be objectively bad

Actually it can't.
That's just something lit majors say to feel better about themselves.

>> No.53578002

>>53577100
O'SHOVA-SAMA!!!!!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaLsg3M7jOs

>> No.53578017

>>53574899
Really good at punching the shit out of tanks and monsters that aren't rocking a 2+
Since they can party with a Lord in terminator armor, delivery method is either teleportation or Land Raider.

If you're down with teleportation, the Lord with Wings/Jump pack can make up for the units slow speed, and with unerring accuracy in landing, you can assault the turn after they hit the ground.

Really impressed with the improvement, random, but with decent rolls they still provide a killy chubby honor guard. I like them.

>> No.53578065

>>53577889
>>53577895
>>53577901
If you think everything from Wrath of Magnus onwards has been several degrees worse than everything preceding it you're either shit-tasted or blind.

>> No.53578066

Are grenade gauntlet bullgryn even worth it?

Is Slab or Brute shield better?

>> No.53578081

>>53578065
Hasn't been*

>> No.53578084

>>53578065
Someone hasn't read the 3rd/4th ed fluff.

Going from great to majorly shit was a much bigger jump than majorly shit to slightly more majorly shit.

>> No.53578101

>>53577944
except the way leadership works now small units don't actually suffer as much.
Your instincts says "small unit, a couple of deaths moral fails and the unit is gone".
except now only a couple deaths means you only add a few points to the moral roll, so you aren't going to lose troops.

A 5 man squad with leadership 5 doesn't actually worry as much about moral as that 20 man blob of orcs.
See if you lose 1 man out the 5 man squad, you only lose more on a 5+, and then only 1 or two. but if you lose 4 guys the squads already basically dead so you don't care about the low moral.

Now the 20 man squad, it doesn't have to roll as long as there are 10+ left, but lets say I kill 11 in a turn. Now yo do have to roll. And you add 11 to the roll. The squad is gone.

Your using a moral shortcut that isn't correct anymore.

>The fact that twin linked anti-infantry guns are super rare now compounds this fact.
well twin linked is just 2 guns now, and anti-infantry guns are going to be more common because you can now use them against vehicles.

>> No.53578109

>>53578066
I'd say Slab. 2+ armor helps more against small arms, and against something like a lascannon you still get a 5+ save. With AP -3 being the most common thing in close-combat, the Slab shield is only marginally worse against those while offering superior protection against anything weaker.

The only place I think the brute shield really wins out is against AP -4 stuff, but outside of melta and the really big melee weapons some walkers have, that's less common of a concern

>> No.53578112

>>53577095
all my lists were invalidated because of faction reshuffles

- Inquisition player

>> No.53578125

>>53577901
>Tfw you got into the game in 2007, just in time for 5th to stomp on everything you liked about the setting

>> No.53578132

>>53577952
Pretty much. At least previous fluff had a modicum of internal consistency, now the same characters act like completely different people.

And don"t even get me started on the overall reduction of the setting to the personal pissing contests of a few hollywood-tier hero and villain characters, the former who don't ever fucking lose even when they should.

>> No.53578133

>>53578101
>Now the 20 man squad, it doesn't have to roll as long as there are 10+ left
Wat?

>> No.53578139

>>53578084
>3rd/4th ed fluff

>The plague stirred within him and poured out as a black cloud of Nurgle-marked flies which swarmed around the doomed Cadians. Some of them were dying of blight even before Typhus' bellow of rage immersed them and boiled their flesh into puddles of diseased matter. Typhus strode through the miasma, his dread scythe swinging before him in an unstoppable figure-of-eight that reaped men with terrifying ease. Capering ahead of him. his Nurglings chewed on the exposed faces of the fallen and dragged at the legs of those who were trying to escape.

>The Cadians fought back as best they could but their lasgun fire pattered harmlessly from Typhus massive Terminator-armoured form and no bayonet could pierce the web of death from Manreaper. As he marched along the trench he harvested the souls of the Cadians. Their officers rushed at him, their finely-crafted power swords raised, but each was dismembered in turn. After a while there was only the rain, the flies, the shrieks of the daemons and the hulking, one-horned personification of death stalking though the trenches. Like a leviathan of legend, the Herald killed men by the dozen and then by the hundred. In his wake the dead and the wounded swelled with pustules before bursting to unleash more plague flies. This battlefield was now a place of death in more ways than one. The diseases that had taken root would spread so that this, which once had been a defensive strongpoint. would now be a festering wound.

>He nodded his satisfaction. The Cadian soldiery were veterans, brave and tenacious. They could not blame this defeat on the numberless hordes of Chaos. They might try but they would know that one of Nurgle`s captains had slaughtered an entire company, and they would know terror. The knowledge would gnaw at them, the tale would be magnified, many would turn, others would falter. The fall of Cadia was one step nearer and with it the godhood Typhus craved.

So different from now!

>> No.53578143

>>53578066
>having Ogryn subhumans in your glorious Guard army
no thank you

>> No.53578154

>>53576433
You just drop them out of a transport and laugh your way into the charge chasing your serpent that just absorbed the overarching.


Scorpions are great.

>> No.53578159

>>53578084
I'm specifically comparing to ALL previous fluff. This shit is objectively worse than anything Matt Ward could throw at us.

>> No.53578164

>>53578109
Thanks friend. I was thinking Slab is better and also because you can do the whole +1 to armor save Psyker ability. Bullgryn don't seem like competition against some of the strong melee units anyway, so it's probably better to use them to bully normal units while you drown the tough stuff in Conscripts.
>>53578112
I'm a bit sad about that too, but acolytes seem to have a lot of fire power now which is cool. They are just less personalized and also I don't get to have my massive henchmen mob.
>>53578143
They are so cute though.

>> No.53578168

>>53578143
>Not wanting the most loyal and pure of faith Ogryns in your Guard.

Absolutely heretical.

>> No.53578184

>>53577866
I would call it a sidegrade considering they gained an extra wound, Bladestorm works on vehicles now, the Farseer can guarantee Doom and doesn't actually have to hide in a unit. You could set up a perfect cordon around him and have him hide in the center and he'll be untargetable.

>> No.53578200

>>53578139
That sounds amazing. What is the source?

>> No.53578204

>>53577961
>go through agonizing procedures to have my legs removed and replaced with advanced machinery to give me the edge in combat for the omnissiah
>conscripts can walk the same distance

>> No.53578220

>>53578204
Serves you right for cucking for a Necron deity!

>> No.53578227

>>53577999
Not him, but it absolutely can say through a lack of detail or characterization, or even not delivering on foreshadowing and reader expectation. You don't need to be a lit major to enjoy literature.

Also for what its worth, I love 40k books and stories even though I realize they don't have the best writing.

>> No.53578228

>>53578204
>agonizing procedures to have my legs removed

You're losing flesh and flesh is weak.

>> No.53578231 [SPOILER] 

>>53574895
>>53576251
>>53577227
Got a better pic here with an alternate loadout.

>> No.53578233

>>53578204
>>go through agonizing procedures to have my legs removed and replaced with advanced machinery to give me the edge in combat

WRONG! It's so you can walk a long time.

>> No.53578235

Don't know if this has been asked before, but oh well.
In the leaked 8th edition rules, Assault Weapons allow a model to Advance and still fire, while suffering a -1 to their hit roll. How does this affect the actual die roll? Let's say an Immortal with Tesla Carbine does this, does his roll of 6 to hit become a 5 due to Advancing first, thus not allowing Tesla to activate? Or is the hit roll a 6, but just subtract 1 from the result, which allows Tesla to activate?

>> No.53578248

Is it shit

>> No.53578252

>>53578231
>insulting Rick Priestley's legacy like that
Fuck you and everything you stand for.

>> No.53578259

>>53578184
sidegrade for cannon bikes.
Downgrade for scatbikes, because they also get -1 to shoot, and can't shoot if they advance.

and Avatar gets the biggest benefit from that, as farseer could hide units, but now the Avatar can hide just as well.
As an aspect heavy/combined arms player I'm actually loving this new list. I get to use the footlocks with my aspects, Avatar looks good. Wraithlord looks usable. Fireprism looks fun.

Actually like the new serpent shield as an idea and am interested to see how it works out.

>> No.53578260

>>53578002
wot

>> No.53578263

>>53578235
I think it just makes your BS worse

>> No.53578272

>>53578235
you cant trigger "6s to hit" effects if you have a -1.

Note that effects like this are denoted as "6+ to hit", meaning that if you had a +1, it would trigger on 5s as well.

>> No.53578273

>>53578252

>> No.53578276

>worst fluff
>worst rules
Is 8th objectively the worst edition?

>> No.53578281

>Sixty million years ago a race of cancer patients found a star vampire and put him in a suit.
>The star vampire had a black cloak and a scythe and turned the cancer patients into robot skeleton men
>They then had a big war with some aliens.
>That is why today black cloaks and scythes and skeletons are associated with death.

This is 3e fluff.
This is """""good""""" fluff.

>> No.53578298

>>53578263
>I think
why do people do this.

>> No.53578313

Greenpill me on Orks, are they better than Chaos space marines?

>> No.53578325

>>53578281
I feel like people who think 40k fluff is going downhill need to remove the rose-colored glasses, its just cause they have nostalgia for being kids and having 40k be a brand new fresh experience.

>> No.53578326

>>53578272
I guess that makes sense. Tesla does state a "6+ to hit", not just a "6 to hit".

>> No.53578330

>>53577779

Of course Gulliman is going to kill Mortarion, Mortarion is a daemon prince so can safely die at the end of any campaign without it effecting anything.

You know, like how Magnus died in the Fenris campaign and was immediately ready to take part in the gathering storm.

Angron and Fulgrim will die in the campaigns they show up for too.

>> No.53578333

>>53578276
I think you mean
>worst fluff
>best rules
Guess which one of those two is easier to ignore and write your own?

>> No.53578334

>>53578298
Ergo sum

>> No.53578336

>>53578143
>being a HFY retard who exclusively plays humans in a sci-fi settings

>> No.53578354

>>53577047
>Vanquisher run to the ground
That was my favourite variant :'(
Now lascannon heavy weapon teams do it better

>> No.53578357

>>53575409
I'll beat you with this

>> No.53578363

Wow this Fate of Konor global campaign coming up in July is the first 8th edition news I'm genuinely excited about. Should be dope.

t. salty 1ksons player

>> No.53578369

>>53578336
>human soldiers in the "Imperium of Man"
>HFY retard
ok

>> No.53578372

>>53578281

Well, the Necrons not having any personality in the modern age was a little shit, but they fixed that.

Yes, the Nightbringer imprinting himself as an instinctual fear on all old one derived life is badass.

>> No.53578377

>>53575207
>https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/06/02/new-warhammer-40000-a-vision-of-the-far-future-june2gw-homepage-post-4/
looks pretty good, they'e finally getting the hang of digital art

>> No.53578378

>>53575932
How are guard top tier?

>> No.53578392

>>53578330
>You know, like how Magnus died in the Fenris campaign and was immediately ready to take part in the gathering storm.
Classic Chaos maneuver. Chaos loses but wins anyways. Get fucked, Fenris. :^)

>> No.53578395

>>53574895
Is that a Bradley?

>> No.53578397

>>53578369
Yes that's what you are

>> No.53578403

>>53578133
oops, fucked up there was using old mob rules.
See problem with shorthand.

Still that makes my point even better.
That 5 man unit has leadership 6, maybe 8 if their is a boss nearby. So they aren't likely to lose models, or more than one, until you lose like 4 guys in a turn. In which case the unit was basically dead.

That 20 man unit of boys, if they lose 9 guys. Their leadership is now 11. So they are definitely losing guys, but not the whole squad. Losing 6 and you won't lose any.

Now the example doesn't scale and is more complicated, but in both cases you need to lose about half your squad in a round for you to worry about moral, and you worry the same in both cases.

>> No.53578406

>>53578372
>the Nightbringer imprinting himself as an instinctual fear on all old one derived life is badass.

No it's not.
It doesn't even make sense.
The Grim Reaper is an artistic representation of death, it's not even scary.

>> No.53578409

>>53578397
You don't really know much about 40k then

>> No.53578413

>>53578377
Some of the pieces still look way to clean to me, and are still a lot goofy, but yeah, generally they are improving.

>> No.53578419

>You have to set aside points for summoned units in your army list
What is the point of summoning then?

>> No.53578421

>>53578403
Comparing losing 4 guys to losing 9 guys is not a fair comparison though.

>> No.53578422

>>53578235
All effects that apply on specific dice results are after modifiers.

Only exceptions for now are in the core rules: 1s to hit/wound/save always miss independantly of modifiers and double 1 or double 6 on psychic tests cause perils of the warp.

>> No.53578427

>>53578406
idk dude he has a skellington face and those are kinda scary

>> No.53578428

>>53578392

What you mean fail then flail around looking for a side goal to declare was your real plan all along and you meant to fuck up?

>> No.53578429

>>53575932
>grey knights tier two
>csm tier two
>guard tier one
>dark eldar not top tier

Shit tier list.

>> No.53578440

>>53578419
Flexibility

>> No.53578442

>>53574895
IS THERE ANYTHING THEY WON'T EMBIGGEN?!

>> No.53578446

>>53578419
So you can chose what you want to summon as the situation calls for it?
Its a flexible reserves.

>my opponent has a lot of armor?
looks like I should summon some burning chariots

>my opponent has a lot of hoards?
looks like I should summon some flamers

>> No.53578451

>>53578409
I do know a lot about 40k. You're the one who sounds likes someone who just found out about 40k two or three years ago and exclusively plays le hoomans because he was the kid in middle school who could exclusively talk about WWII and was obsessed with history so now he has to play Imperial Guard because lolz it's just like historic wargaming

>> No.53578458

>>53578406
also, it's rose out of a particular time in europe, it's not universal even on earth.

>> No.53578462

>>53578406

Yeah bro you wouldn't shit your pants at all with the Nightbringer chasing you.

>> No.53578464

>>53578378
Stupid "everything wounds on a 6 so mass guardsman is top tier" meme

>> No.53578468

>>53578419
Tactical flexibility.
200 points can be Flamers, Bloodcrushers, Brimstone Horrors. Whatever you need it to be.

>> No.53578469

>>53578276
look man, give it a try. if not sell your shit cheap, wait for 9th, or go back to 7th

>> No.53578479

>>53578464
Yeah, must be that and not guard being both the cheapest and shootiest army right now.

>> No.53578489

I found the solution to your horde problems.

>> No.53578502

Death Guard just beat Primarines yet again on Warhammer TV demo game.

>> No.53578505

>>53578440
>>53578446
>>53578468
Well I guess for Deamons it makes sense. But for Tyranids it makes the Tervigon pointless. Why set aside 200 points for Termagants when you can just field 200 points of Termagants at the start of the game? Really takes the wind out of my sails.

>> No.53578513

>>53578462
Except we're not talking about anyone fictional character.
Apparently all the races in the galaxy were supposed to fear skellymen with scythes because Nightbringer.
But it's not a particularly frightening image.

>> No.53578514

>>53578462
>GodEmperorShardingNightbringer.jpg

>> No.53578517

>>53578502
What's the format of the games? Points or Power?

>> No.53578519

>>53575932

>Necrons up top

Necrons have very little in the way of efficient anti-big thing weaponry. They also lost their position as most durable faction because RP got nerfed into the ground for the majority of units and now only really works out well for 20 man warrior blobs.

>> No.53578520

>>53578276
Early 3rd Ed. had the worst fluff, and by that I mean almost no fluff. They introduced a completely brand new faction, DE, with a codex that had about a page worth of fluff in total even counting things like sidebar quotations. Most players had no idea what they were about for years.

>> No.53578525

>>53578502
I thought primarines won the first game?

>> No.53578529

>>53578502
In random players games Death Guard are winning almost every time. Primaris Marines are considered very okay.

>> No.53578533

>>53578272
neat, means devastator marines can have one plasma cannon that never overloads because of the sergeant's signum.

>> No.53578537

>>53578505
Tervigon can act as a "transport" for those summoned gaunts so they can't be targeted.

>> No.53578538

>>53578513
I would presume that's how we perceive it.

>> No.53578545

>>53578502
Looks like Primaris Marines aren't actually Chads but instead tall autists.

>> No.53578554

>>53578502
Not really all that surprising. Death Guard actually got, you know, stuff. Stuff that they can use in various ways. Primarines got some guns, some other guns, and a crappy jump unit.

>> No.53578555

>>53578260
Ya kok

>> No.53578558

>>53578419
It replaced deepstrike.
>>>53578468
A demon character can sacrifice their turn to summon a unit of the same god. No Tzeentch Herald summoning Bloodletters or anything like that. It's also not automatic. You have to roll 3d6 and roll over the power level cost of what you want to summon or some shit like that.

>> No.53578562

>>53578517
Points.

>>53578525
Oh I was referring to all the WarhammerDay games I didn't realize they played twice on stream.

>> No.53578566

>>53578554
>tfw 225 points for a 3 man assualt squad

>> No.53578575

>>53578231
kek. saved

>> No.53578581

>>53578533
A 1 is always a 1 regardless of modifiers.

>> No.53578582

>>53577091
>Warbikers vs Warbuggies
There's plenty of reasons to use both.
Warbikers are literally twice as good per point at shooting infantry, but shorter ranged. They're meant to directly get up into people's faces and hose them with bullets before charging to protect them from too much retaliatory fire. They also have their wounds spread out amongst more models (reducing their vulnerability to high damage weapons), and can bring a PK into melee.
Buggies have a totally different purpose. They're for delivering rokkits into your opponent's back field units. Even if you don't upgrade them to rokkits, they only have one wound over warbikes concentrated into fewer models, so high damage shots are scarier for them. They have the same number of attacks per point in melee (unless you upgrade to rokkits), but can't bring a PK. They can, however, outflank really reliably now for a turn 1 rokkit salvo that can't be shot before delivery.
In short, apply yourself, and at least make sure you know what you're talking about before you post.
There might be people here who mistake your authoritative tone for actually knowing what you're talking about.

>> No.53578584

>>53578421
it is, or rather it shows the complexity going on here and why the short cuts can be wrong.

The 4 guys might cost as much as the 9 guys, they might be twice as hard to kill, they might be just as easy to kill but do more damage, they might be able to do damage before being exposed to the weight of fire.

The particular point, that big units of boys are more resillient than smaller units of tankbustas, in terms of moral, is what I was getting at.
A 5 man unit of tankbustas with nob doesn't actually have a weakness from moral under the new system, because they're only going have a serious risk about losing models to moral if the unit was basically wiped out in one turn.

The big block of boys unit actually has to worry about moral, they a big unit can lose enough models in a round that there is a real chance of losing 4-6 models to the moral check. Their moral protection is only against losing the first couple turns of 3-5 troups (which the tankbustas don't worry about for moral, because that just killed them).

>> No.53578586

>>53578554
are the knew death guard units actually that good? reading the rules for their shit I just felt that they were sort of ok

>> No.53578596

>>53578566
A 3man assault squad that he fucking charged into plague zombies for no raisin only to have typhus and a defiler come push their shit in next turn. Literally why.

>> No.53578602

>>53578581
thats not true. a 1 always fails on hits wounds and saves. thats it.

You still count your result as a 2 if you rolled a 1.

>> No.53578605

>>53578406
>grim reaper isn't scary

get out of here Death, we're busy talking about tabletop miniatures

>> No.53578613

>>53578558
Yes. But ANY Chaos Character can summon now
>Word Bearer Dark Apostle here

>> No.53578621

>>53578562
Yeah primarines won that one. The lord of Contagion advanced like a retard into a hellblaster squad and a captain with support buffs and was kill. It all went downhill from there.

>> No.53578640

>>53578586
In comparison to Primaris Marines? Yes. Death Guard in the starter set at least have a psyker, some zombies to roadblock, and some tough units. Primaris has 'Marine with Bolter', 'Marine with Plasma Gun', and 'Marine with Assault Bolter who has an ability related to charging but why would you ever charge these fucks since they have no worthwhile melee weapons'.

>> No.53578642

>>53578602
Inversely, don't shoot overcharged plasma at stealth/camouflaged units. You're going to be sad.

>> No.53578644

>>53578586
Are you kidding? They're T5 MEQ with 5+++, good psychic powers, and cheap chaff that's immune to morale and can spawn more of themselves when killing things.

Compared to that Primarines are paying more than Tac Marines for basically the same amount of firepower and less cost-effectiveness vs multi-damage weapons.

>> No.53578654

>>53578605
Isn't that on some hospital on Mexico? Have to say, it's gotta be the coolest way to advertise your job.

>> No.53578656

>>53578602
this man gets it. plasma triggers death on a "hit roll of a one" a 2 is a miss automatically because of the auto failure rule, but the total of 2 does not trigger overload. I'm not aiming for some magical "never miss" effect, just pointing out that with the way plasma is worded the signum stops a dude from melting himself.

>> No.53578657

So, what times does pre-orders usually go live? is it the same around the globe or different times depending on loction?

>> No.53578664

>>53578602
>>53578642
It specifically says "regardless of modifiers". You only check the actual result of the die for gets hot triggering.

>> No.53578675

>>53578642
also true, depending on how thier particular camo rule works. the fact that most orks can't hit a vindicare at all amuses me.

>> No.53578679

>>53578505
Healing existing squads does not take points.

>> No.53578691

>>53578537
You know what, I guess it makes sense for that. Since Fleshborers only have a 12 inch range spawning units on turn 2 and 3 when they're in range could be effective.

>> No.53578701

>>53578231
Wtf? Why would someone glue bits to a stick of deodorant like that?

>> No.53578707

>>53578644
Death Guard and hoard mutants are really cool, shame their models are absolute garbage. I was thinking about getting the starter box until I saw the reveal.

>> No.53578718

>>53578640
If you're clearing trash you can shoot with the heavy bolters, charge in, do a mortal wound or two if you're lucky, get some attacks in, then leave combat and shoot again because you can fly.

>> No.53578722

>>53578691
You also don't pay points for reinforcing existing squads. Keep the Tervigon next to a couple units of 20-30 termagants, any time they suffer 10+ casualties restore them to max. If you do it every turn that's 50 free termagants, no more rolling, no more running out of larvae, no more giving the enemy additional kill points.

>> No.53578732

>>53578718
You can't leave combat until your next turn, that leaves you in a bad position for the opponent to send something deadlier your way.

This literally just happened on the stream.

>> No.53578735

>>53578664
>It specifically says "regardless of modifiers".
No it doesn't. Show me the plasma gun that mentions "regardless of modifiers.

>> No.53578736

>>53578679
>>53578722
>Healing existing squads does not take points.
Well shit, never mind. The Tervigon is great.

>> No.53578745

>>53578596
Gotta make the defiler look good, man. I bet they still have loads of defiler kits sitting in a warehouse. Gotta sell em off before the next shiny daemon engine comes around.

>> No.53578748

>>53578732
Well don't charge something if you're in range to be counter-charged

>> No.53578776

>>53578732
I meant that, maybe I was unclear. If you're clearing an objective of cultists and you charge smart the risk of actually losing one of these guys is low. But yeah, in that instance it was pretty dumb.

>> No.53578778

Which Index book should I get?

>> No.53578788

>>53578778
The ones available for free online.

>> No.53578798

>>53578778
What army do you want?

>> No.53578803

>>53578701
Original 'eavy Metal construction, when there were no vehicle kits.

>> No.53578804

>>53578736
It also gives nearby termagants re-roll 1's to hit, can cast smite, and its scything talons are decent despite only having 3 attacks.

>> No.53578814

I think Primaris Marines would do better if they swapped the Interceptors for another Hellblaster squad.

>> No.53578831

>>53578814
Yeah, but then they would shoot the starter box death guard off the table every single game. I hope the multipose inceptors come with better options.

>> No.53578841

Rate.

>> No.53578845

>>53578664

really buddy? I see nothing to that end, and the rule you reference is just about failure to hit, not the result after modifiers

>> No.53578857

>>53578517
the first was power. the second points

>> No.53578887

Why is the Neuro Disruptor more expensive than the fusion pistol? 6" more range for 3 str 1 shot gun, like even Guardsmen would laugh at that.

Not like its gonna be a problem, since everything else for harlie seem good, but shit I really like the look of that gun, now I have to stick to the butt ugly Fusion pistol.

>> No.53578890

>>53578841
Are people really taking terma instead of hormagaunts?

>> No.53578894

>>53578701
That's some classic 80s conversion work, you fucking heathen.

>> No.53578902

>>53578378

Because comissars, HWTs, dirt cheap conscripts, HWTs, valks, HWTs, command squads, and HWTs.

>> No.53578912

>mutilators the same price as obliterators for an infinitely worse unit
why didn't GW even try to buff them just a little bit?

>> No.53578913

>>53578890
With Tervigon, yes.

>> No.53578914

>>53578887
yeah not sure whats going on with the neuro disruptor points. its likely because of the d3 damage

>> No.53578918

>>53578890
Only because of the Tervigon for free respawns.

>> No.53578929

>>53578378
horde armies in general will be able to take and hold objectives like nobody's business, and objectives win games.

>> No.53578948

>>53578912
Everything that wasn't a cult marine was straight up nerfed anon.

>> No.53578962

>>53578231
> Dat feel when I actually have one of these
> Mfw my first thought when I saw the new grav-tank was "How am I going to konvert this from two deoderant sticks?"

I have one "Deoderant Tank" with two-cyclone missile launchers, heavy bolter, and 2 hunter-killer missiles. 7th edition was pretty good to them, what with the ability to outflank behind some poor bastard on turn 2 and delete an entire tank from the board.

>> No.53578965

>>53578929
Orks and 'Nids are better at taking objectives, Guard is better at holding them. Seems fluffy.

>> No.53578984

>>53578664

It does not say that anywhere

>> No.53578997

>>53578378
They just have so much of everything. Lots of shooting, lots of bodies, and lots of mobility thanks to rough riders, deep striking scions and valkyries.

>> No.53579006

>>53577227
Can it fly?

>> No.53579019

>>53578890
You want both for different reasons.

Hormagaunts are fast tarpits that can lock things in combat and stop them shooting.

Termagants are cheaper objective holders, and turn the Tervigon into a ridiculous value machine.

>> No.53579025

Ratlings or command squads with sniper rifles?

>> No.53579060

>>53579006
asking the real questions. if it can then this might be a battle tank worthy of my raven guard. I try to stick to mobile stuff, so the new inceptors and the fact devs can actually move made me pretty damn happy. Still slightly annoyed at the drop pod cost increase, but I understand why it was needed and I'll adapt.

>> No.53579061

>>53579025
Show your enemies the power of Hobbiton.

>> No.53579063

>>53578914
I'd be okay with it always wound on 3+ against non-vehicle and deal 1 damage. Just make it at least playble :(. It was an awesome weapon in 7th but expensive as balls.

>> No.53579090

>>53578378

Scions are one of the best troop choices in the game and put out a ridiculous amount of dakka for the cost of a tactical squad while deep striking

Heavy weapons teams are cheap as fuck, cheap enough to make masses lascannons and heavy bolters a legitimate threat

Commissars are some of the best morale defense in the game

Orders are good

Valkyries are the best air transport and give whoever is inside an extra 20" of threat range since they're the ONLY transport in the game where you disembark After the vehicle moves.

Valkyries are good enough that they legitimately are better at putting scions and meltas in optimal range than deep striking. Let that sink in.

>> No.53579112

>>53579025
Ratlings, unless you want a heavy weapon too

>> No.53579137

>>53579025
Ratlings. The shooting and moving is pretty great, plus they can have more shots per unit. I might have to use command squad snipers though too because I only have 8 Ratlings, but I have about 5 normal Snipers.

>> No.53579157

>>53578248
yeah sure, why not

>> No.53579163

>>53579025
Chuck Ratlings into a ruin and laugh as your 3+ armour midgets take potshots at their characters. With the new way in which snipers can cause mortal wounds on a 6, you want weight of shots over quality. Then again, that was always the case with snipers, but now they actually have a purpose.

>> No.53579177

>>53579163
I was looking at that. The +2 cover thing doesn't make a difference vs the Command Squad. Ratlings have a 6+ save so with +2 cover they get 4+ and a Command squad also gets 4+.

>> No.53579182

>>53579163
To be fair, that does depend on the Quality in question. I can see myself using 2x2 Omnispex Arquebi and a Ranger Primus using Vindicare rules and blowing away every character ever for about 300 points.

>> No.53579215

>>53578948
Untrue. Chosen are miles better thanks to combi weapon rules, and the champ having 3 attacks. You can be a cheap version of hellblasters, or load up on FUCKING FIVE POINT power axes and go head hunting. Same is true of terminators

>> No.53579231

The more I look at it the more I think Tyranids are not as strong as people were initially saying. I think nids were just so used to being shit for so long that every single buff immediately jumped out at them and looked great, but they need them just to stay afloat, it doesn't look like it's actually pushing them to the top necessarily.

Now this is just in terms of pure fighty value. They might turn out to be sick good at the objective game or something, but I don't think nids are going to be tabling other armies in 2-3 turns like the alarmists are crying about.

If anything, it's Ork Boyz tabling you that you need to worry about. Carnifexes aren't really gonna do shit.

>> No.53579240

So lads I recently got back into 40k after a decade of withdrawal from my resin addiction and have decided to start anew with a steel legion army.

I kicked it off right away by getting a couple of models to start with:
>Commisar Yarrick
>1 infantry sqaud
>1 heavy bolter unit
>1 lascannon unit
>1 Chimera
>and to top it off one commamder.

The focus of my army is that of mechanised infantry whilst trying to stay as loyal to the fluff imperal guard structure as possible.

My route of action was that of bulking out with chimeras and masses of infantry with a couple of leman russ executioners and rounding off my heavy weapons teams.

Am i doing it right or headed down a dreaded path of no return?

>>
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