Quantcast
[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / g / ic / jp / lit / sci / tg / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports / report a bug ] [ 4plebs / archived.moe / rbt ]

Due to resource constraints, /g/ and /tg/ will no longer be archived or available. Other archivers continue to archive these boards.Become a Patron!

/tg/ - Traditional Games


View post   

[ Toggle deleted replies ]
>> No.53552663

FIRST FOR LAND RAIDER DRIFTING

>> No.53552690

Voidravens are seriously expensive, but that 72" bombing run tho...

>> No.53552698

I really hate how convoluted these points systems are now. I've built and checked my list over 4 times now and I'm still finding errors.

There's a ton of typos/missing entries/wrong values plastered through these books, too. At least for tyranids.

Maybe the complexity was in part made to push an upcoming list builder app? I might just give in and go to power levels now...

>> No.53552700

Soon to be the most annoying unit of 8th edition

>> No.53552718

Necros are now the new WAAC-fag toy

>> No.53552725

>Black Knights are 50 pts per instead of 40
>14" range with 18" plasma that doesn't have to Get Hot
>Cover isn't its own save, so now they can have a 2+
BUT
>Jink isn't re-rollable, and is now a 5++, why even bother if they have to be shot with a Plasma Cannon before it's even advantageous?
>Darkshroud now costs 128 pts per instead of 95
>Icon doesn't add to any save, instead detracts from enemy hit rolls. Meaning MEQs hit on 4+
>Doesn't protect itself any more
>instead of FnP, Ravenwing Apothecaries are Techmarines for meat, and cost 97 pts per instead of 70. And are also a separate Elites choice.
>Plasma talons are Assault 2 instead of Rapid Fire

>> No.53552727

How will (You) generate psychic powers, and other random effects like DE combat drugs, in 8th edition?

http://www.strawpoll.me/13087618

>> No.53552734

>>53552700
36 points each including the gun

>> No.53552749

Had a few hours breaking down the changes in the DE index to see what's been buffed and what's been nerfed making like for like lists on paper and 7th ed Battlescribe.

I'm struggling to determine why you'd take Hellions over Reavers ever still or what roll Hellions are meant to play. Anyone help me out?
Stats I was using to compare

5× Hellions 85 (92)
Stun claw 7
10 poison shots at 18"
11 attacks on the charge
+1 wound per 6 rolled by heliarch
5 wound squad
14" movement and [Hit and Run]

3× Reavers 90 (124)
Grav Talon 5, Heat Lance 25, Agoniser 4
2 (4 in rapidfire) poison shots at 24"
1 heat Lance shot
7 attacks on the charge
4+ roll for mortal wounds on any model within 1" of grav talon
6 wounds total
16" movement

>> No.53552756

>>53552698
It's because you are playing an NPC army

>> No.53552769

>>53552700
>>53552734
>drop anything with a Heat Lance/Melta next to it
>deletes then unit in a single turn of shooting
lmao

>> No.53552784

>>53552749
>attacks on the charge

You do realize you no longer get an attack for charging right ?

>> No.53552786

>>53552698
I guess maybe GW thought that the points costs would only be used by hardcore tournament players, and so it's okay to expect those sort of people to crunch numbers. It sounds like everyone's ignoring power levels and using points, however.

>> No.53552796

>>53552784

Yeah bad habit, I just mean the profiles have that many attacks

>> No.53552811

Fish of Fury is back!

>> No.53552813

Do we know what the first codex will be? I'm assuming Primaris.

>> No.53552815

>Aspiring Champions with double bolt pistols are a thing now

>> No.53552826

Woods - Get cover when the entire unit is inside
Ruins - Get cover when the unit is inside
Crater - A model gets cover if it is inside

How many people are writing these rules?

>> No.53552829

So many fucking typos. "Supa rokkit" vs "Super rokkit". What the fuck Gdubs.

>> No.53552838

>>53552637

Who is GW trying to fool with these Space Marinelet heroes (can manlets be heroes)? Who would even pick these up if they weren't a Japan only release with the Primaris Marines on the way?

>> No.53552841

Which chapters make heavy use of terminators and dreadnoughts? I would prefer no special snowflakes

>> No.53552846

>>53552813
Primaris
Nurgle
Primaris
Nurgle
Primaris
Newish faction
Primaris
Partially new faction
Nurgle
Primaris

>> No.53552851

>>53552786
that's cause power level is kinda dumb for anything but narrative play where you agree on a scenario beforehand and build your army accordingly
marines are cheaper than fucking scouts

>> No.53552853

>>53552749
Did you mix up Hellions and Reavers? Because that comparison makes Hellions look better.

However Reavers are more tanky, with a better toughness and save. Being multiwound models they are also less vulnerable to morale. They can also move 24" in a turn.

>> No.53552856

Remember, kids! By naming the Sept faction keyword <Wu Tang Clan>, and the Craftworld keyword <Wu Tang Clan>, they now share a faction keyword and can ally as separate detachments!

>> No.53552862

>>53552725
How is Plasma Talons being Assault 2 a downside? How is having a straight-up 5++ bad when *everybody else* has no link at all? And the Icon still works on itself.

>> No.53552868

>>53552856
NICE MEME!

>> No.53552872

>>53552749
>>53552853
Reavers have 2 roles for me now
>Fast, tough unit to intercept a charge and tie something up for a bit
>Character/TEQ hunters

>> No.53552875

So has GW issued a formal statement about their whole ruleset getting leaked and everyone fucking hating it?

>> No.53552880

>>53552875
You're being very cute, anon.

>> No.53552883

>>53552841

White Scars

>> No.53552888

>>53552875
nothing yet, and dont expect anything

they want to pretend nothing is on fire

>> No.53552897

Hey can anyone tell me where the datasheet for the thousand sons Exalted Sorcerers are leaked?

>> No.53552898

>>53552875
>hating it

You might be in the minority there, son. All 20 of the guys in my area are stoked about this release. Its brought 2 old players out of the dark since the rules were leaked.

Even our tau players are happy with the balances.

>> No.53552902

>>53552875
They did say theyll be updating with codexes... and what a sad day it is when i want to go back to codex creep because at least then things were somewhat balanced.

>> No.53552904

>>53552875
Not everyone hates it, Anon. Just a minority.

>> No.53552910

>>53552875

im just shocked that people have been this stupid and believing theyd get functioning armies

>> No.53552916

>>53552875
If AoS has shown anything, going by people's first reaction would be a dumb thing anyway, let alone knee-jerk reactions of internet nerds that do nothing but shout about doom & gloom.

>> No.53552918

>>53552725
The fag from the last thread.
Cry even harder, mr Deathstar.

>> No.53552919

>>53552875
well i dont hate it but im pretty disappointed, its quite obvious they didnt playtest enough based on the games ive played. there are SO many ways to abuse the rules.

>> No.53552920

>>53552875
does everyone hate it?

I haven't been checking this shit lately. how do you qualify "everyone hates it"? is it causing massive butthurt on facebook and dakkadakka etc. or something?

>> No.53552921

So how's the timeline looking?
Lacking some ork interaction, I haven't really followed The Gathering Storm too closely.
But Rowman woke up at 5 min before midnight and some shit went down before that huge warp storm emerged, right?

At what point in time were the primaris marines manufactured?
was Cawl working on them the whole time in secret? Or did they just finish them after Rowboat woke up and now that they've brought them out some few ten to hundred years have passed since The Gathering Storm?

>> No.53552930

>>53552875
>everyone
>not just a couple of loud morons that fail to realize that all armies have changed

>> No.53552932

>>53552916

AoS has gotten better, but people's first reaction to it was absolutely correct.

Narrative play my ass!

>> No.53552934

>>53552916
aos was dead for a year until they released all the tomes and the handbook.
so i guess we wait a year to play? great idea, so much fun will be had!

>> No.53552936

>>53552786
I feel like they tried way too hard to appeal to a casual crowd they'll never have?
"Oh who would ever take time to do all that math? Who is that patient? Certainly not our players, who had to paint, build, detail and assemble tiny plastic men that cost two arms and two legs!"

Speaking of casual, though, whatever happened to those kid-friendly pre-primed models they said they were going to push? I never heard and more on them, and never saw any except a tac marine and chaos marine box.

>> No.53552938

>>53552916
AoS killed fantasy. Not sure if thats a knee jerk reaction so much as rigor mortis.

>> No.53552942

>>53552875
>t. man who wasn't around for third edition

>> No.53552945

>>53552786
Of course we are. Power levels are mathematically provably fucking broken. Even more so than the god awful points values.

>> No.53552948

>>53552921
>was Cawl working on them the whole time in secret?

Yes

Rawbooty told him to wake them.

>> No.53552955

>>53552920
No, but some people have declared everything broken and beyond salvageable, like how Tau are now unplayable as a faction and how Berserkers are the worst unit of all armies. You know, reasonable assessments after glancing at the rules once.

>> No.53552970

>>53552898
>Even our tau players are happy with the balances.

What a crock of shit. Tau players are losing their minds. Have you seen Advanced Tau Tactica? It's like they have regressed tot he Mont'au. Sad!

>> No.53552979

>>53552955
Oh yeah, that guy who said they were dead as a faction.

And who the fuck said that about Berserkers, I'm sad I missed the sperging.

>> No.53552988

>>53552920
Some sites have banned discussion of it because the reaction has, in some communities, been so bad GW was complaining it was causing bad press for them i.e. warseer.

GW is afraid that knowing things about their product will make people not want to buy it. Think about that for a second.

>> No.53552997

>>53552934
AoS was played in that year as well, quite a lot in fact, it was just that the GHB fixed the one glaring issue by getting rid of all the fan-made balance systems and introducing an official one.

>> No.53552998

>>53552988
Proofs?

>> No.53553006

>>53552898
Have you not seen the people saying theyre burning their armies?

>> No.53553014

>>53552955

well thats dumb.
They have removed all artifacts, spells, faction rules and supplement units/rules, and all formations of course.
This edition was created when AoS was created, this has been the plan all along. Make a game for any casuals so they can have higher turnover with starter packs and then sell a shitload of extra codexes and supplements that they earlier could only sell once every few years.
Now its gonna be a yearly thing because "balance".
And the shit-turds are just gonna gobble it all up.

>> No.53553016

>>53552998
Heres the thing about a website deleting everything and banning further discussion... it doesnt leave much proof.

>> No.53553019

>>53552988
I have serious trouble believing that.

>> No.53553023

>>53553016
No, proof that GW told them to. Someone would have proof of that.

>> No.53553026

>>53552997

pretending that Aos was well received is delusional. its taken so much PR money to get back the money they lost on that release theyre probably still paying for it.

>> No.53553032

>>53552988
I think GW is more concerned with the fact that if everyone has already all the rules and can print them as many times as they want nobody would ever buy their rulebooks or indexes.

>> No.53553033

>>53552838
They seem rather proportionate though

>> No.53553034

>>53553014
>And the shit-turds are just gonna gobble it all up

Sure am! This edition looks great.

Also, shit-turds, really? What a redundant insult.

>> No.53553035

If every army is nerfed then is anyone actually nerfed?

>> No.53553044

What are the auto include tyranid units?

Biovores, exocrine, OOE, hive tyrants w/guard, lictors, carnifex, wariors and what else?
How to equip them?

>> No.53553046

Warhammer Community just released a video showing the design process and interviews with the writing staff for 8th ed.

https://youtu.be/zNLGXJVpZhE?t=10

>> No.53553056

Anybody know of any good 40k podcasts, just getting back in.

>> No.53553060

>>53553034

ohno someone enjoying a less involving and interesting game! Ohmy is my face red now

>> No.53553066

>>53553046
got me

>> No.53553070

>>53552902
>because at least then things were somewhat balanced.
>somewhat balanced.
>balanced.
>BALANCED

B A L A N C E D

>> No.53553071

So with the new weapon rules, if an Aspiring Champion replaces his bolt pistol with a second bolter or a combi, doesn't that mean he gets to fire both bolters each shooting phase? So long as it's not a pistol or a grenade, a model is said to be able to fire all of its guns.

It's like getting a free storm bolter, since bolters are free.

>> No.53553078

>i can no longer buy 3 wraitknights and have my whole army list for the next 4 years
>woe is me this game is crap now

>> No.53553079

>>53552637
Stupid question about making army list, do you have to pay for the wargear the base model is equipped with?
Pic related, would it cost 150 points or 192 points?

>> No.53553080

>>53553035
Necrons were grossly buffed, so the premise doesn't really work.

>> No.53553086

>>53552846
Is this by weeks or by months. I just want Morty

>> No.53553087

>>53553060
Yeah, let that be a lesson, Anon.

>> No.53553092

>>53552811

Whatever, I'll just deepstrike my guys from behind since they no longer scatter.

>> No.53553093

>>53552902
so these are the people who complain about the new ruleset

>> No.53553097

>>53553046

>> No.53553099

>>53553079
Yes. For matched play, the basic cost of a model is without weapons. You have to add in the weapons on the profile.

>> No.53553100

>>53553079
You have to pay. It's the same deal with IG vehicles coming with HBolters, or Deldar raiders coming with dis cannons.

If a unit's cost includes its wargear, it will say so on the points sheet (like Assassins do). Most, however, will say "without wargear."

>> No.53553106

>>53553079
In general, yes.
You pay the points for the base model.
You look at what gear it is equipped with.
You look at the point costs of said gear.
You pay for that.

>> No.53553107

>>53553078
ssentially this. Note like that, barring legitimate complaints like "the blast rules do not represent a large blast correctly, the math is wonky" or "this is slightly overpriced", the biggst complainr ar th netlisters.
See this faggot. MUH SAVES >>53552725

Fuck them, honestly.

>> No.53553110

>> No.53553111

>>53553014
>This edition was created when AoS was created,
Source: My Ass

>> No.53553112

>>53553079
192 points
it clrealy states (wargear not included) at the top of the point costs , the occasional exception being named characters but those are in a diffrent tab

>> No.53553113

>>53553100
This is one of the stupider design choices I've seen, and I teach design at a school where the kids take my class to avoid doing gym.

>> No.53553120

>>53553071
Can't do that, the AC loses both the pistol and bolter if he wants special equipment.

>> No.53553121

>>53553071
yes, if theres not a "instead of" or "replace" text in the wargear text you will have both and can shoot both

>> No.53553124

>>53552902
The cognitive dissonance is strong.
I am curious, anon, which army did/do you play?

>> No.53553125

>>53553113
Okay.

>> No.53553126

>>53553100
>>53553099
>>53553106
>>53553112
Well, that's incredibly fiddly... Thanks

>> No.53553131

>>53553046
fuckin got em

>> No.53553134

>>53553044
Hive guard with impaler cannons look pretty good too.

>> No.53553135

can someone clarify: are commander aura affect commander himself?

>> No.53553136

>>53553080

>implying guard weren't also insanely buffed

Hope you're ready to see 250 conscripts on the table, each 50 man blob with a commisar, and getting frf,srf orders every turn to literally rape baneblades, imperial knights, and land raiders
And that's just half of their army.

>> No.53553140

>>53553113
Is any of your kids a GW game designer, by chance?

>> No.53553143

>>53553125
If you are required to take those items, why not include their points, and reduce the cost of alternate replacement items?

>> No.53553146

>>53552734
around 1 mortal wound per shooting phase is kinda shit in my opinion and even if it does not hit the target you must wait to the next turn to move to detonate the mine and with the new rules even a guardsmen squad can split lasfire to cover almost every mine you can launch and pop them on a +4 +2

>> No.53553147

>>53553135
Yes

>> No.53553151

>>53553079
You have to look in the back of the index for points costs of weapons. It says right there that the model's cost does not include weapons, so yes, you also have to pay for base wargear. Although a lot of stuff like bolters and chainswords are 0 points.

>mfw a helbrute is almost 200 points now

I just checked the chaos index and shit seems all out of whack. On one hand, a lot of things got more expensive, but on the other hand, some things got cheaper which would have made them balanced in 7th (like the plasma pistol is now 7 points). I don't really know how to digest this shit, these new point levels all seem so bizarre and arbitrary, but maybe it will be alright. But the points costs are inflated so hard now that 2000 points is the new 1500 etc.

>> No.53553154

>>53553140
No they don't let kids do stuff like that, obviously, anon.
It's not advanced enough.

>> No.53553155

>>53553135
Unless stated otherwise, yes.

>> No.53553162

>>53553154
fair enough

>> No.53553169

>>53553126
Not really. If you had just read the point sheet, it says clearly that model's point cost Does Not Include Wargear. It's different from what you're used to, but not fiddly.

>> No.53553170

>>53553151
Flash Gitz - 27 points a model.

Go look at that statline.

>> No.53553174

>>53553143
because then you would have to have multiple lists for every Piece of gear, depending on which unit can take it and how many points it will cost for either of them to buy it.

I can see why they did this, then again, I can see why one wouldn't want to do this just the same.

>> No.53553176

>>53553134
>impaler cannons

old and busted, being heavy you will lose BS, making the enemy roll for anal circumference while moving is better I say

>> No.53553178

>>53553143
Because then those alternate replacement items would be undercosted for other units.

>> No.53553179

>>53553135
in aos models are confirmed to be within range of their own abilities , i'dd expect the same to be the case in 8th

>> No.53553181

>thinking about getting into 40k with the new edition
>try watching Long War podcast about 8th
>its a bunch of tourneyfags
>all they do is shit on open/narrative, power levels, maelstrom missions
>NO ITEMS FINAL DESTINATION FOX ONLY level of faggotry
>one of them has trailer trash sideburns and vapes constantly

Is the whole 40k community this awful?

>> No.53553184

>>53553134
Somebody said you can only take hive guard in units of 3, not 6 for matched play, is this correct?

>> No.53553187

>>53553143
Because you also have the option to change them, like an Hbolter into Hflamer or dis cannon into Dlance. It's far easier to have a base model with added gear than a base model that doesn't match yours and then need to play "how to adjust it" games to find your final cost.

>> No.53553193

>>53553174
If only there were some kind of datasheet, where all the things available to a unit could be listed alongside their points values...

>> No.53553196

>>53553169
No, I mean how many pages you have to flick through to get all base cost of a model. 3 pages to get the cost of 1 basic variant of a models is more than needed.

>> No.53553199

>>53553181
Can be, but no, not all of it.

>> No.53553200

>>53552897

no one has exalted sorcerer leak?

>> No.53553202

Of the HH books, wich is the one our favourite edgelord messes shit up in Imperium Secundus?

>> No.53553205

>>53553176
Well, I know this is a pretty fucking left-field suggestion, but you could always stand still to shoot your 36", no-LOS-required gun.

>> No.53553218

>>53553196
Well, I won't argue with you there. Base cost should have been included on the unit sheet instead Power Points or whatever, and there's literally no reason in this digital age to not have wargear costs right there on the sheet too.

At least they were kind enough to throw all of a faction's costs - for units, guns, and everything - onto one page, so if you know what you have already, totaling their points is very easy.

>> No.53553225

>>53553200
>>53552897

>> No.53553229

>>53553200
nvm found it...

>> No.53553233

>>53553218
2 steps forward, 1 step back I guess. Anyway, thanks for the clarification

>> No.53553235

>>53553169
>but not fiddly

Not that guy but this new codex, sorry "index" layout is autistic as fuck, literally what the hell am I reading.

They didn't include base wargear in the unit points cost because . . . why exactly? It makes no damn sense, what is even the reason for making people do an extra step to calculate the shit their dudes always come with anyway. The old codexes where it just says "replace weapon with x for y points" got it right, this new shit is just convoluted for absolutely no good reason. A total number of 0 people are going to play with power levels so that whole datasheet clutter just adds to the unnecessary bloat and page flipping and remembering arbitrary numbers.

I want to be optimistic but there is an assload of dumb design in this new index paradigm.

>> No.53553237

>>53553193
And then you'd have to remake the entire datasheet if you wanted to rebalance the points costs. Now GW can just release an updated points table instead. That was the whole point of moving over to the new system.

>> No.53553239

>>53553181
Yes.

>> No.53553241

>>53553225
thanks man, it was so far down i thought theyd forgotten :/

>> No.53553243

>>53553136
50 conscrips all within rapid fire range (which is highly unlikely) will only do like 4 wounds/turn to a t6+ sv3+ model

>> No.53553245

>>53553235
see >>53553218

>> No.53553253

>>53553205
>stand still
what?

>> No.53553264

If your selling your army I feel you need to take a step back, calm down, grot your teeth and start thinking.

You nerfed my Leman Russes to crap? Very well, GW I accept your challenge!

First: two battalion detachments. I need every command pointI can grab for this.
Next: 4 Tank Commanders. Pask is (relatively) cheaper and BS2+ so he's an auto take.
3rd: Troops with heavy bolters, maybe some conscripts. Minimum tax is 48*3*2=288 points. Not a problem.
Elites: grab a techpriest, a platoon commander, and a commissar for each detachment. Buffs all around. If I can fit it, a mecvet and/or mec-command squad with babysitting PC.

The tanks will be BS3+ rerolling 1s with commands, with Pask as the exception. Gunna run them all as vanquishers because double fuck you GW I want big guns. Pask runs a battle cannon though, because I'm using the command reroll to get 4-5 practically guaranteed d3 damage hits per turn. Each tank is 212-222 points.

Is this a viable army? Eh, won't know. Is it playable? Yes. I can land an average of 6 shots from four vanquishers at 48", with Pask only boosting the damage output thanks to Battle Cannon bullshit. It should be enough to screw up anyone's day.

>> No.53553275

I can't get over Inquisition being able to use any Imperium vehicles. Like, its not a bad thing and its pretty fluffy, but I just can't get over it.
I can't wait to load up a Nighthawk full of acolytes.

>> No.53553289

>>53553243

It's not at all unlikely to be within 12 inches of an enemy on a stadard tabletop.

>only 4 wounds

Considering how cheap they are, how impossible they are to get rid of, and how much damage they can do, it's obviously worth it if you look at the points cost.

>> No.53553292

>>53553275

wtf is a night hawk

>> No.53553295

>>53552932
My narrative ass play!

>> No.53553296

>>53553243
3.7 with FRF!SRF!, but who's counting?

...Holy crap that's weak. Is there no way to get rerolls for IG yet?

>> No.53553300

>>53553235
You use the points during army creation and you need 2 pages. The datasheet with the available options and the page with the points. You add these up and write them in your list.
How is that hard again?
In previous editions you had flip pages to check what options you had available (list of x weapons with points) and the point of the unit itself.
If anything it removes clutter because now it keeps pointcosts where it belongs: pregame. Once the army is done you only need the datasheets and have every unit or weaponstat on them.

>> No.53553313

>>53553292
Stormeagle variant

>> No.53553317

>>53553296
Get 50 command points and use them all on your conscripts

>> No.53553319

>want to start a Chaos marines army
>Slaanesh is my favorite, but no models for them
>all regular Chaos marines are 11 year old sculpts and manlets also
>It's also Nurgles turn, and more than likely it'll be Khorne marines next because GW constantly jerk Khorne off at any chance

Life is suffering

>> No.53553328

>>53553317
Can't you only use a given strat once per phase?

That said though, CP are easy as all fucking hell to get with IG now that platoons are gone. We're going to be shitting out CP. I feel like we won't even need commissars to handle our morale at this rate.

>> No.53553330

>>53553319
AoS is going to get Slaneesh elves if you really want to be a degenerate

>> No.53553336

>>53553319
Fulgrim and the EC soon, brother, have some patience and the glorious Third will be here soon.

>> No.53553337

>>53553319
>mfw world eaters player

>> No.53553338

>>53553296

>weak
Those 50 conscripts cost 150 points, and with that many wounds to chew through, they're incredibly hard to get rid of.

To kill off 250 conscripts (less than half the points of a full army) you'd need about 150 space marines shooting unmolested for 6 turns straight.

>> No.53553344

Jesus fuck, icon of flame is so terrible.

>> No.53553349

If an Attack Squig is free, why would you ever not take one? Why even make it an option? Your model is significantly weaker without it.

>> No.53553350

>>53553338
For significantly less points, a squad of HWT and lascannons could tear a t6+ model a new one.

If I wanted to be immovable, I'd just take necrons. Their new RP is completely out of this world.

>> No.53553353

>>53553035
Well yes - now everyone is nerfed. I don't know the original of the term exactly but now everything is weak like a Nerf gun.

>> No.53553356

>>53553319

>mfw death guard player

>> No.53553357

>>53553070
Who are these people who thought 7th was balanced? What armies did they play???

>> No.53553358

>>53553237
You mean like the codexes they plan on releasing...?

>> No.53553364

>>53553319
Because you call them Manlets. Slaanesh doesnt like it when you talk shit but act all gibsmedat anyway.

>> No.53553365

>>53553289
it's gonna take a while to get them all in range though, and they'll presumably be taking shots all the while
they're gonna be a great unit sure , but there are counters , gotta keep that commissar bubblewrapped !
>>53553296
there's an order that allows you to reroll 1's but obviously that means giving up FRFSRF so why you'dd ever do that on anything but plasma squads is beyond me
also yarrick gives you a 6 inch reroll to hit's of 1's (and all failed to hits if shooting orks)
harker also allows catachans within 6 inches to reroll 1's

>> No.53553379

>>53553319
Our time will come, brother.

>> No.53553380

>>53553181
No. Watch Wargaming Minions and Miniwargaming Instead.

>> No.53553382

>>53553358
Yes. With the new system you can just release a new points table if things need to be rebalanced, instead of having to put out a whole new codex.

>> No.53553383

>>53552970
>What a crock of shit. Tau players are losing their minds. Have you seen Advanced Tau Tactica? It's like they have regressed tot he Mont'au. Sad!

Rules look great Gue'la. On the internet everyone is a pessimist.

>> No.53553388

http://www.strawpoll.me/13087891

Alright chaps, lets take a head count. Who preferred 7th.

>> No.53553389

>>53553350

>For significantly less points, a squad of HWT and lascannons could tear a t6+ model a new one.

150 points of lascannon teams do 2 wounds against a T8 Sv 3+ model, and get blown away way way easier.
Hell, losing a single model can make you lose the 3 team squad with a bad leadership check.

>> No.53553399

>>53553357
For some people, the rose-tinted glasses drop down the instant something is updated.

>> No.53553402

Why the hell is any of this a thing? Any of it?

>> No.53553403

>>53553382
Except they ARE going to be putting out whole new codexes. They've said that. That is a thing that will be happening.

>> No.53553406

>>53553330
Sauce?

>> No.53553410

>>53552875
It was just mentioned on twitch/warhammer, they said they know they leaked and people have seen them through "nefarious means" but they still won't answer any questions about things they haven't officially announced.

>> No.53553415

>>53553319
>mfw Night Lords

I cannot believe its actually normal in this game to launch a new edition and have no support for so many factions.

Its like if Fifa launched with every non-champion league team filled with nameless reserve players.

>> No.53553416

>>53553365

>it's gonna take a while to get them all in range though, and they'll presumably be taking shots all the while

I've already spent hours running the numbers.
It basically doesn't matter.
They just have too many wounds for a tank of the same point cost to do anything, and they get so many shots that they win most encounters I ran.
Even in the encounters they lost, they did way more damage than conscripts with lasguns have any business doing to vehicles.

If there's a counter, I'm yet to see it.

>> No.53553423

>>53553388
>Was
>8th not even released yet
>All armies have stopgap rules so that everybody can play
>Just like the slim, bland 3rd edition codexes
>"Was"

Also funny how first 7th surged, but not long thereafter 8th started trucking ahead. More proof that the grumpy grognards with a stick up their ass sideways are the quickest when it comes to complaining about something without giving it any thought or chance.
top kek

>> No.53553429

>>53553403
Yes. And if it's unbalanced, it can be fixed easily, instead of letting the army stay broken for years until the next codex comes out.

>> No.53553434

>>53553423
>projecting this hard

>> No.53553435

>>53553006

I've seen Chris-chan saying a lot of stuff but I don't take it as an indicator of what the American public wants to do.

>> No.53553442

>>53553402
fear of list sprouting around exploting said rules

like an army specialised in deep striking that comes down only at the last turn with enough alpha strike power to turn the table on the objectives alone, or the occasional unbalanced psychic power getting spammed to no end now that you can choose it.

>> No.53553443

>>53553415

>Night lord players
>complain when their special armywide rule is fear
>complain when they don't have it

>> No.53553447

>>53553423

>All armies have stopgap rules so that everybody can play
>Just like the slim, bland 3rd edition codexes

I hope you're referring to the army sections in the back of the main rule book

>> No.53553448

Could a servo skull potentially retain the personality of the person it belonged to? An inquisitor with a wisecracking servo skull sounds cool.

>> No.53553449

>>53553434
><standard 4chan reply no.6>

>> No.53553451

>>53552853

Why does it make them look better?

>> No.53553454

>>53553415
I'm the Slaanesh fag and I'll agree with you. I wish more Chaos renegade marines that don't like Chaos would get some representation

>> No.53553457

>>53553423
>people who feel emotions have invalid opinions

spoken like a true autist

>> No.53553461

>>53553448

How does a skull retain a personality?

>> No.53553465

>>53553448
Sorta a thing in vaults of terra

>> No.53553467

>>53553447
The first few codexes in 3rd edition were dogshit as well. That's why "3.5e" is common parlance.

>> No.53553470

>>53552700
>taking biovores over an exocrine, which is a fucking engine of destruction now

>> No.53553472

Say I have something like a frag missile, that is HeavyD3, do I make a single roll to hit then make D3 rolls to wound, or do I make D3 rolls to hit?

Having a discussion with a friend over which it is, and we can't actually find anything in the rules to definitely say one way or the other.

>> No.53553473

Regarding targeting, are vehicles held to the same rule as infantry? I.e if there's a bunch of guard in front of a baneblade do I have to shoot them first or is it like the example of Magnus the Red; 10+ wounds Is target able?

>> No.53553474

Template weapons were kinda cool desu
I'm sad

>> No.53553476

>>53553110
is that dow 2 martellus?

>> No.53553480

>>53553461
by keeping the brain bits safe
at least for the most part

>> No.53553481

>>53553474
One of the few things that kept it from just being math hammer.

>> No.53553483

>>53553447
What it's like is the 3rd edition rulebook army lists.

>> No.53553484

>>53553389
>150 points of lascannon teams do 2 wounds
wat
i did the math 150 points of lascannon teams ( 144 for 6 lascannon teams to be precise assuming the 4 points ppm for them isn't a typo ) do 5.8 unsaved wounds against t8 3+ save and can do so from across the map, unlike conscripts who need to get 50 guys within 12 inch to do 3.7

>> No.53553493

>>53553443
my army is half raptors

literally can't even field it in 8th

>> No.53553494

>>53553472
d3 rolls to hit.

>> No.53553495

>>53552841
Iron hands use a ton of dreads. Not sure about terminators. I know their Gorgon Terminators in 30k are decent. And the fluff is that the wearer is cybernetically fused to the armor.

>> No.53553502

>>53553415
>They tease about Night Lords in their daily spoilers
>No Night Lords rules

>> No.53553505

>>53553467

Mostly just the IG and Chaos ones.

>>53553483
Alright

>> No.53553508

>>53553472
You need to determine how many attacks a ranged weapons has before you know how many dice you need to roll to hit

>>53553473
Only units with the Character keyword and less than 10 wounds can't be targeted unless they are the closest unit in the shooting phase.

>> No.53553513

>>53553474
yeah it was fun to shoot a big green piece of plastic from my flamer dudes, now they just feel like glorified bolters. it does help prevent shitty players from cheating though.

>> No.53553514

>>53553481
Yeah, added a bit of strategy and diversity. I don't understand the choice of removing them

>> No.53553515

>>53553388
Well 8th edition certainly has it's fans, but it's far from unanimous.

>> No.53553516

>>53553472

I'd assume you roll a D3 to see what number of shots your firing, then roll to hit with that number, then roll the necessary number of wounding dice. I assume this because otherwise it makes hitting with randomized shot weapons succeptible to all their shots missing if your fail to hit on the first roll and that would be shitty as dicks m80.

>> No.53553518

>>53553389
5.83, actually, from 144 points of lascan HWT (x6). Since we're including orders, it's 6.48 wounds when rerolling 1's to hit.

And for a mere 114pts, 6 autocannon HWT will deal four wounds even against T6. 4.44 if rerolling 1's to hit with orders.

And for 165 pts, 3 armored plasma sentinels can do other fun stuff.

>> No.53553520

for sale in my area. beautifully painted

>> No.53553531

>>53552841
probably the most famous terminator-heavy army is dark angels deathwing.

>> No.53553532

>>53553319

>just want to build a nice undivided Black Legion army
>shitty Abaddon
>shitty Chaos Marines
>shitty Havocs
>no Chosen

>> No.53553536

>>53553508

I see so I can't screen my venoms with a wall of 4 wound razorwing flocks? Finding less and less use for the beasts as I think about them...

>> No.53553537

>>53553493
Yes you can.

Outrider Detachment.

>> No.53553538

>>53553520

Very cool!

How much?

>> No.53553539

>>53553494
>>53553508
>>53553516
Thanks folks, that was the side I was arguing so I'm glad everyones got my back.

>> No.53553545

>>53553484

You did the math wrong.
6 lascannon teams equals 6 shots at BS 4+
3 hits.
Wounds on a 3+ for 2 wounds.

>> No.53553551

>>53553515
I think it's more a case of 7th edition having its enemies lol.

7th edition can go burn in hell for all I care.

>> No.53553552

>>53553388
I had no idea there were this many shills.

>> No.53553556

>>53553532
It's such bullshit honestly. I don't know why GW insist on hyping up chaos as a threat when they all look like malformed marinelets that look garbage when put next to any other model

>> No.53553558

>>53553545
of which 1/6 are saved and they do 3.5 damage on average a piece
so 5.8

>> No.53553562

>>53553545
They do D6 damage each though, so unless you're firing them at basic infantry they'll do way more than 2 wounds.

>> No.53553564

>>53553502
raptors got nerfed as well
lmao

>> No.53553565

Its pretty hot right now but I'd like to paint on the balcony. How much will the sun fuck up my paint?

>> No.53553567

>>53553518

> Since we're including orders, it's 6.48 wounds when rerolling 1's to hit.

Who said we were including orders?

How do you get 6.48 wounds from firing 6 shots?

>> No.53553569

I don't know what I should think about the changes to psykers.
I liked having all these Psychic abilities. I played eldar in essence because they are really cool to play as a psyker-warhost with all these different powers to try... now all I have is 6 powers for my craftworlders and 3 for my harlequins. These three mind you are way less cool than the shit the shadowseer could pull in 7th.
I like the mechanic chance but the lack of powers is really sad.

>> No.53553576

>>53553388
>voting on a system that isnt released vs one that has been out for 4 years

>> No.53553578

>>53553552
Anybody who bought or buys from GW is a shill. If you gave them any money, even in a roundabout way, you are enabling them.

>> No.53553580

>>53553264
This army sounds, would create quite a nice match against some horde army as the horde closes by and the battalion manoeuvres to not be outflanked / deal with deepstrikes

>> No.53553581

>>53553502
>Word bearers specifically mentioned under the legion rule explination
>No word bearer rules
>Word bearer rules likely to suck ass when/if they come because summoning is dogshit and that was all they got in 7

>> No.53553585

>>53553576
>isnt released

>> No.53553589

>>53553505
Space marines, eldar and dark eldar also received significant rules updates and expansions to their completely lacking initial codexes over the course of the edition. Orks too, if you count the speed freaks variant.

Whenever anyone fondly remembers 3rd edition, they're thinking of its latter half. Initially it was received quite poorly.

>> No.53553592

>>53553567
There's this new stat called damage, anon.

>> No.53553594

>>53553520
>We've ALL seen some shit

>> No.53553595

>>53553567
>Who said we were including orders?
well if the conscripts don't get FRFSRF they get bumped down to 1.7 unsaved wounds per turn
and we're also forgetting to calculate in the point cost of a commisar in this whole thing
>How do you get 6.48 wounds from firing 6 shots?
they do d6 damage per shot

>> No.53553602

>>53553576
>isnt released

>> No.53553605

>>53553567
Because 3.7 includes 50 conscripts using orders to get Rapid Fire 2 before getting into range, granting 200 shots. Without orders, those conscripts are only scoring 1.85 wounds in the premise even within rapid fire range.

And you get those wounds because each lascannon deals D6 damage - or an average of 3.5 damage.

>> No.53553607

>>53553569
Things like psychic powers are just on hold untill the codex is released. Then GW said they'll expand the armies with more warlord traits, psychic powers, strategems, FOC, relics ...

>> No.53553611

>>53553556

Especially when a single set of sculpts (a Chaos Marine kit) could be made into both Chosen and Havocs with literally one extra sprue for special weapons.

I was especially ticked over no Abaddon model during the whole Gathering Storm arc. It's finally his big moment...and the Eldar and Imperium get a bunch of fancy new character models.

>> No.53553612

>>53553576
>isnt released
you... don't have 8th ed yet do you anon...

>> No.53553613

>>53553585
>>53553602

>2 days of leaks is the same as a game being out and people playing multiple games

>> No.53553615

No one is a match for my POWERFUL LIMBS

>> No.53553617

>>53553562
>>53553558

Alright, so you still did the math wrong.
Rerolling 1s on a 4+ to hit is a 7/12 chance to hit.
So (7/12)*(2/3)*(3.5) times 6 shots total is 8+(1/6) wounds

>> No.53553619

>>53553515
>30 votes
wew

>> No.53553624

>>53553589
And they're forgetting the monster that was the 3.5 chaos space marine codex.

>> No.53553625

>>53553613
You haven't played any games? Our local stocker has been running games since the Indexes arrived.

>> No.53553630

>havoc launcher was nerfed and has no AP now

why'd they have to do that man

I will stay positive though. HL is 1 point cheaper for whatever reason. Plasma pistols are 7 points and can be used in CC so they seem alright now.

>> No.53553632

>>53553615
>Not the sexy bloated stomach version

>> No.53553633

>>53553624
best codex ever

>> No.53553634

>>53553625
How's it going?

>> No.53553635

>>53553576
>isnt released
Anon, the entire fucking edition leaked.

>> No.53553637

>>53553454
>>53553443
>>53553502
I would have been tolerant if GW gave all the Chaos marines access to Primaris-like troops.

A generic 10 man kit so we could start building something for the new era while using existing shoulders/helmets for conversion to our favored legion.

Instead its
>Loyalists... and Nurgle.. BUT NOONE ELSE >YOU HAVE TO WAIT BECAUSE REASONS

Why leave out so many?.. i dont fucking get it.

>> No.53553641

>>53553480
>>53553448
The skull is just the chassis for a drone.

>> No.53553642

>>53553615
>Ballsack in one hand
>Dick in the other

Sometimes it seems like the model designers like to try what they can get away with. Just like the numarins captain with a bone on his boner.

>> No.53553643

>>53553607
God, I hope so.
I want my Telepathy, my Daemonology and my Divination back goddamnit

>> No.53553644

i guess its time to suck it up and buy some scions and a taurox

>> No.53553648

>>53553634
Broken as fuck. Tyranids and Dark Eldar wipe armies off the table by turn 3.

Most people I know have gone back to 7th, because it's not a GW store and we're allowed to do that.

>> No.53553650

>>53553605

Those weapon teams also die at the drop of a hat, whereas clearing off 50 conscripts is incredibly difficult.

>> No.53553657

>>53553576
>isnt released
>isnt
>released

>> No.53553660

>>53553633
If you played CSM, sure.

You'll probably hear Eldarfags claim that their 7th edition codex was the best ever for years to come.

>> No.53553662

Nidbros, what units are you currently excited for?

I'm honestly surprised at Exocrines and Biovores being great. I know the vast majority of stuff is excellent now (even pyrovores aren't fucking shit, what the hell) but I'm curious what you're looking forward to.

That and I'm trying to fill the rest of the 500 points in my 'nid list and want to hear what other people think.

>> No.53553664

I tried to make a 1000 point list using the models I own, take a look!

DELDAR Out rider Detachment

HQ: 342 points
Archon w/ Agoniser, Blast Pistol, Phantasm Grenade
71p

Sslyth x4
176p

Venom w/ 2 splinter cannons
95p

FAST: 338 Points
Scourge x5 w/4 haywire blasters
118p

Reaver x3 w/ caltrops, blaster and agoniser
114p

Reaver x3 w/ caltrops, blaster and agoniser
114p

TROOPS: 211 points
Warriors x10 w/ splinter cannon
85p

Raider w/ disintegrator and shock prow
126p

ELITE: 95

Trueborn x5 w/ 2× dark Lance
95p

What do you guys think?

>> No.53553666

>>53553625
my local is a GW so we're not getting shit until saturday when the official preorder starts

>> No.53553667

>>53553589

SM and eldar only had an initial codex.

>> No.53553673

>>53553607
How about special rules?

>> No.53553676

>>53553556
>>53553611

My favorite part was when Guilliman was revealed and had a dead Black Legionnaire on his base. Hilarious irony that gud-looking Chaos models are now just part of a loyalist base.

>> No.53553680

>>53553666
If someone playing Nids or Deldar offers you a game, decline.

If someone playing Guard or Orks offers you a game, don't bother, you'll win.

>> No.53553684

>>53553664

P.s this list comes to 994 points in 8th whereas in 7th it was 956 points. I think reavers and venoms will fall out of favour due to their high cost...

>> No.53553685

>>53553275

I can't get over not being able to give my inquisitor power armor or my acolytes at least carapace

And then they go and make acolytes 3 wounds each which is probably better than a 4+ save and the 2+ Look Out Sir is better than a 3+

So I don't know how to feel

Except any non terminator Ordo Malleus inquisitor might as well just take Coteaz and rename him since he's a straight upgrade for laughably little cost

>> No.53553688

>>53553664
Swap out the Haywire for Blasters or Dark Lances and take the Talon instead of Caltrops and you'll be fine
Just don't expect to hold on to Objs

>> No.53553689

>>53552921
Guilliman got Cawl to begin work on them back in M32 iirc because he knew that things could and most likely would get worse and with progress stagnating he wanted elites ready for when shit really hit the fan. It took Cawl thousands of years to get a viable improvement over the current geneseed that wasn't heavily detrimental to it's recipients. He orders call to bring the first batch online when the warp storm happened.

>> No.53553692

>>53553184
Anyone?

>> No.53553693

>>53553662
Mawlocs are still absurdly cheap for what they bring. Mortal wounds and then an unreasonable number of attacks because you're one inch away that forms a giant distraction for people to shoot at all for just 105 points.

Carnifexes are cheap again too.

>> No.53553698

>>53553688

Why swap haywire out? They have a bolter equivalent profile against infantry I figured they're the best all rounder

>> No.53553700

>>53553680
mfw playing scions and I've been getting nothing but buffs in 8th

>declining matches

or i could not be a raging fag and just play them to see where they are and arn't strong

inb4 tyranids are the new tau

>> No.53553701

>>53553676
That's nothing compared to how much time there was between the excellent looking Thousand Sons rubric remains in the Thunderwolf sprue, meant to be glued on a base, and the actual release of plastic rubrics.

That was just rubbing salt in the wound.

>> No.53553706

>>53553615
>None can stand before my FOURTY SHOTS

Flesh-hive is gonna be the shit, brilliant counter to anyone deep-striking in

>> No.53553707

>>53553667
>forgetting craftworlds
>forgetting the entire index astartes line of rules expansions
>forgetting all the expanded rules and errata in white dwarf people had to photocopy/cart around with their books
they did not only have an initial codex

>> No.53553710

>>53553698
It's more the fact that this Ed so far looks to make Darklight weapons king
In terms of power it goes Darklight > Heat > Haywire = Poision > Shredder/Stinger

My 2k list is dripping with high -AP

>> No.53553713

>>53553607
Anon trying to reason that is a bit pointless right now. People have seen all the indexes, they think that is ALL the ed (like >>53553635
this autist) and they have cast swift judgement. Everything is doomed nothing is saved burn your armies feel the butthurt.

>> No.53553729

>>53553650
Okay? They're still attacking from 48" away instead of 12", they aren't slogging around 6" a turn while most things are much faster, and I'm not worried about a small horde of genestealers jumping on them and ruining the effective potential of 180-fucking-points of models (with commissar) instantly.

Conscripts have their place, anon, I won't argue that. But trying to use them for hunting big game and denying other sources for hunting big game is remarkably stupid. I mean, 9 models of Mortar HWT will knock out 8.75 of your conscripts every turn without Orders and assuming you pass every morale test, and the lot of them will only cost 81 pts.

>> No.53553732

>>53553662
Carnifex, Harpies, mawlocs, deathleaper maybe. (all besides classic swarmlings)

>> No.53553733

>>53553402

1ksons and daemon players have not seen this yet. They still believe they can play with magic haha

>> No.53553735

new tyranid list:
20 biovores
thoughts?

>> No.53553738

>>53553174
It doesn't really make sense to have the point cost be the same for different units either though. Like, buying a powerfist on a Chaos lord (WS2+ A4 and higher survivability) costs the same as getting one for a champion (WS3+ A2).

>> No.53553740

>>53553700
Trust me. There is nowhere they're not strong. I could make a bad tyranid list and table people.

>> No.53553741

>>53553729
you could plop a commissar into your conscripts, and just try to keep the enemy repeatedly disengaging to deny them their firepower, while you use the HWT to blast things

>> No.53553744

>>53553402
To absolutely cuck all drop pod fags

Based gw

>> No.53553746

>>53553713
So unless I'm burning all my models right now I'm doing it wrong ?

Maybe I'm too happy that Rubrics are actually usefull for a change.

>> No.53553751

>>53553740
I look forward to it, sounds like penitence after the hilarity of respawning scions and tauroxes in 7th

>> No.53553752

>>53553735
Need HQs.

>> No.53553755

>>53553729
And those mortars will be doing it from entirely out of sight, 48" away, and entirely without fear of retaliation.

God damn I fucking love mortars. Why are they so fucking cheap now?

>>53553741
That's the point. Conscripts have their place, but so does other stuff.

>> No.53553769

>>53553502
>>53553581
>legion rules released
>get my nurgle army, nice spread of bikes and havocs
>"Y-You Nurgle WAAC fags are going to get it when 8th drops!"
>we end up becoming the face of chaos
Drinking in the tears, tastes good.

This RICH sickly arouma of dispair.

>> No.53553773

I've been busy so I'm just now hearing about 8th edition news.

I gather that there was a bunch of nerfs. How is my Knight household list looking?

>> No.53553776

>>53553680
>just handing victory to your enemy because you're too incompetent to play your army without spamming riptides
Classic taufag

>> No.53553778

So, as a Guard player i have two, precisely two concerns about my army right now.

1. If veterans have better BS and can stock more special weapons, and infantry squads can't platoon up, what s the point of infantry squads at all? If you want mechanized you want veterans, and if you want to bubble wrap or blob you want conscripts. Where does baseline infantry fit in?

2. If we get a codex update, please please please give the exterminator heavy 8. It doesn't deserve the nerf! YES I KNOW THIS ISN'T A QUESTION, YOU PORTED EVERYTHING ELSE GREAT BUT WHY WHY WHY DIDN'T YOU PORT MY BELOVED POMPOM CORRECTLY.

>> No.53553779

>>53553752
swarmlord

>> No.53553785

>>53553710

Alright if I drop the reaver agonisers I can afford blasters on 4 scourges, why change between grav talon and caltrops? More wounds with the caltrops no?

>> No.53553788

>>53553710
I wouldn't neglect the poison, with transports getting more expensive and large blasts getting fewer hits most of the time, we may see more footslogging infantry this edition. I'm thinking of using splinter cannons as the heavy weapon for every gunboat squad, for example.

>> No.53553789

I didn't want Primarchs before, but since I've decided to paint Imperial Fist Primaris and ally Custodes (yeah I know they're a bit gimped now) I really fucking want Dorn to lead these crusading motherfuckers

>> No.53553790

>>53553746
BURRRRRNNN THEEEEM

No seriously, just feels like some armies got their playstyle slightly changed so the old way to play them is no more or sub-par so it feels underpowered or unflavoursome for some people.

I do think that 1K sons need their own unique psychic abilities and I am hopeful they'll get something in the corresponding codex. I guess I am one of the few optimistic retards in this thread

>> No.53553800

>>53553693
>>53553732
The only thing about the mawloc I don't like is that the attacks are just strength user, AP0 and only do 1 damage. Maybe looking at carnifexes has spoiled me but does it lack melee punch?

>> No.53553802

>>53553735
Get deepstriked to death

>> No.53553803

>>53553755
I'm glad mortars are cheap now, I always fielded HWTs with them and they ended up being wasted points in all games.
I'm absolutely loving 8th edition so far.

>> No.53553804

>>53553729

>Okay? They're still attacking from 48" away instead of 12",
At least they can move without losing accuracy

>they aren't slogging around 6" a turn while most things are much faster,
Your super heavy tanks can't run from a board full of conscripts.

>and I'm not worried about a small horde of genestealers jumping on them and ruining the effective potential of 180-fucking-points of models (with commissar) instantly.
The conscripts can just take the losses, fall back, and let someone else shoot them
The weapon teams die instantly.

Did you think about this at all before posting it?
You gave another reason why conscripts are better.

>Conscripts have their place, anon, I won't argue that. But trying to use them for hunting big game and denying other sources for hunting big game is remarkably stupid. I mean, 9 models of Mortar HWT will knock out 8.75 of your conscripts every turn without Orders and assuming you pass every morale test, and the lot of them will only cost 81 pts.

Mortars have nothing to do with this. Stop deflecting.

>> No.53553805

>>53552698
A lot of stuff in the daemons codex as far as wargear just isn't costed. Burning chariots can take blue horrors for no cost ostensibly. Soul grinders and exalted alluresses can exchange wargear but their point profiles just say already included.

All in all it actually amounts to daemons getting some point reductions even when receiving ostensible buffs to units.

>> No.53553808

>>53553769
No bikes for you, though.

>> No.53553811

>>53553773

>knight player

>> No.53553817

you roll for damage after the save roll has been failed

>> No.53553820

>>53553710
So blasters, dark lances and disintergrator cannons?

What are the bad choices in the codex, are wytches still shit?

>> No.53553825

>>53553778
some quick mental math hammer says that right now, the BC and AC are identical against MEQs, with the BC having a slight upper hand against other targets

so, it does need a buff, since it cant handle hordes better nor does it focus fire better, winning out only in reliable damage, which could be better than superior swingy damage

but heavy 8 is insane in comparison, it would be hilariously superior to the BC, and negate any other weapon in your arsenal

>> No.53553826

Codex: Q'Orl when?

>> No.53553831

>>53553778
Like always, vets hit better than guardsmen but cost more. Like always, guardsmen hit better than conscripts but cost more. If +1 pt for +1 BS and access to weapons doesn't sound like a bad trade to you, run guardsmen over conscripts. Vets, however, are elites now, so they take an entirely different slot that isn't troops.

>> No.53553833

>>53553811
>frog poster
What can I say anon, I like big stompy robots

>> No.53553834

>>53553773

It can literally be raped by hundreds of conscripts with lasguns while you pick off maybe 12-15 a turn.
You will be tabled by pretty much any list by turn 4 at the latest anyway.

>> No.53553835

>>53553820
It's all pretty good.

>> No.53553840

>>53553800
That's always been the point though, they're good at eating things but their limbs leave much to desire.

>> No.53553846

>>53553778
>1. If veterans have better BS and can stock more special weapons, and infantry squads can't platoon up, what s the point of infantry squads at all? If you want mechanized you want veterans, and if you want to bubble wrap or blob you want conscripts. Where does baseline infantry fit in?

Infantry squads are cheap as fuck, meaning you can fill out a lot of Troops slots for almost no cost, and fill Heavy and Elite slots with HWTs and special weapon squads, all for dirt cheap.

You're going to have a billion Command Points, and orders that enter automatically, up to 18" if you bother with vox casters (and you should).

It's actually a huge upgrade.

>> No.53553850

>>53553785
>Unit get's hit with a MW if enemy retreats vs MW when charging
It depends on what you're using them for - i use my reaver as fast anti-chargers, T5 due to +1 drugs

>>53553820
There are no real "bad" choices
Wyches and Hellions are good - Mandrake can be amazing in large groups
Reavers and Splinter cannons got nerfed
Heat Lances now seem to be anti TEQ

>> No.53553852

>>53553778
>1.
Troop tax to get a fuckload of command points
>2.
Could be an oversight some retard in the design team did, could also be that this retard is clinically retarded and actually intended to nerf the exterminator, either way GW will never fix it. Jump on the punisher looser, we're going to BRRRRT

>> No.53553855

>>53553196
Here's a tip. Just print out your points pages. It's not all that "fiddly" after that.

>> No.53553856

>>53553800
Crowd control? if you manage to burrow again you can pop up again somewhere useful (different blob).

Also just realised it doesn't have the Swallow whole ability. which unit did have it then?

>> No.53553859

>>53553805
Wait, so daemons are still OP?
Not nerfed in to the ground?

>> No.53553860

>>53553804
You aren't even worth talking to. Never mind, I'm going to bed.

Play with 250 conscripts, anon. No one will stop you.

>> No.53553865

>>53553834
>literally need 400 bolter shots to kill a stompa
>knight is even bigger, with more wounds and better saves
technically possible, but i really doubt you will get anywhere without lascannons to back up your conscripts

>> No.53553866

>>53553565
it will dry before you get it on the model. look like shit

>> No.53553876

>>53553820
Wyches are amazing now for one reason and one reason only (don't listen to anyone else, their reason is not real reason).

Hexatrixes are free. Agonizers are 4 pts.

Now, run fucking wild on them, you blood sluts.

>> No.53553883

>>53553689
What always amuses me about the whole "we need Primaris reinforcement" angle is that the IG/IN are the backbone of the Imperium's fighting capability. 95% of the fighting is done by Joe Nobody while Astartes, game changing as they can be in a warzone, are too few and far between to realistically prosecute wars on the scale needed.

While Primaris is a step towards helping that, a far more effective decision in these "desperate times" would be to remove some of the compartmentalization of the IG that has been hamstringing them after Ribbit Gorillaman. I understand why it was done but he has been peeling back a lot of his initial codex decrees as of late and the IG/IN being a cohesive fighting force would fix 80% of the problems they have. Actually having regiments being combined forces instead of relying on a separate armour regiment under command of another guy to support your infantry only regiment (that may not have even been deployed in the correct place) without air coverage because the Navy commanders decided they wanted more strike craft in their Dictators instead of bringing your air support.

The IG would be capable of having what they needed, where they needed, and when they need it without rolling the dice on the labyrinthine Munitorum to shuffle every little piece around. They could retain some of the separation to cut back on the rebellion risk but this structure was designed by Bobby G during a militant downsizing in the Imperium and has been a plank in its eye ever since he got put on ice.

>> No.53553884

>>53553755
ehh heavy weapons teams are very vulnerable and a single dedicated enemy artillery piece will most likely knock all of them out in a turn
i feel like hwt are adequately priced as they are now
the future might prove me wrong though , haven't really seen what other heavy weapon team esque units are priced like for other factions

>> No.53553890

>>53553218
Well they didn't do that so datasheet wouldn't have to be changed whenever they update points. Just the few pages where points are located. Power levels on the other hand won't be updated for balance.

>> No.53553892

>>53553859
No, they are nerfed to fuck.

>> No.53553893

>>53553790
I like the Tson changes

Exalted Sorcerers are cheaper than Sorcerers and are beatsticks
Scarabs with a cannon cost as much as they did bare in 7th
While rubrics are a nice 20ppm
Diet Smite™ i'm hesitant to use because half the unit dies to the resulting perils but it's a good thing to have up my sleeve

Hopefully their rules, if they ever get them, will have a way to mitigate perils

>> No.53553898

>>53553850

I must have misread the text on caltrops; I though it was mortal wounds to the enemy when the reavers fall back as a parting gift.

>> No.53553910

>>53553883

How does this force 95% of the playerbase (SM players) to buy more models?

>> No.53553911

>>53553319
exact same feeling bro, i dont know how im not gonna buy anything for atleast another 6months

>> No.53553912

>>53553733
>chaos can easily take psykers with full access to 4 different tables
>Meaning while other armies are restricted to basically having 3 powers max, they can manifest as many as 12 a turn before smites

>> No.53553913

>>53553630
Havoc launchers suck now, don't bother with them.

Pretty much all blast weapons look terrible, desu.

>> No.53553914

>>53553357
>Who are these people who thought 7th was balanced? What armies did they play???

GKs and Eldar, I guess.

Brb with my army of invisible, fortuned, guided Seer Council on jetbikes.

As for imbalance, the only thing I really see hurting is melee / assault units that can't deep strike / teleport / infiltrate. A lot of good ones can. A lot of good melee units CAN'T deep strike as well, and IMO it really depends on how the terrain is set up at your LGS and what scenario you're playing as to how effective you can be at melee.

If you're playing a LGS that leaves a lot of open space or charge lanes, it's going to be harder. If you play somewhere with more obscuring / LOS blocking terrain, it'll be easier to get in. But there's still overwatch to get through, and even though it specifically says "only 6s" there didn't seem to be anything limiting the number of shots?

That would be pretty bad trying to charge an assault cannon or something getting full shots at you...

>> No.53553916

>>53553850

What makes wyches and Hellions good? I'm just not seeing it other than for Hellions that they're cheaper than reavers now.

Also what's your verdict on beasts? I'm liking the idea of razorwing chaff but the rest seems lacking

>> No.53553917

>>53553876
>people called me mad when I have my wytches and trueborn sargents agonisers
But wait, can a character climb in a transport with another squad still or does the succubus walk?

>> No.53553921

>>53553893
Guess they just made them more than a one trick pony.

>> No.53553922

>>53553913
>Pretty much all blast weapons look terrible, desu.
Not fucking MORTARS.

>> No.53553924

>>53553275
Just the inquistors themselves though. Noone else has authority. It's more to let you "Ally" them into those forces.

>> No.53553927

>>53553685
Yeah I'm with you on that actually. The loss of options feels weird but then the buffs and the vehicles ... I think where we stand will only be figured out once play starts

>> No.53553946

>>53553910
I'm talking fluff only not marketing. You can do both just fine in universe to sell Primaris. It just would make sense to also unfuck the military as a whole at the same time.

>> No.53553948

>>53553181
Nah. Watch "Winters SEO" mate.

>> No.53553949

Where's the rulebook? I can't find it in the maze of mega links in OP.

>> No.53553953

>>53553778
>Where does baseline infantry fit in? bubblewrap with equipment
cheap troops that can still operate somewhat independently , unlike conscripts which need to be babysitted by a commissar and commander. it's a small niche but it exists
i agree infantry squads need to be able to blob up again though
>exterminator
if it was heavy 8 it would have been statistically better than any other russ variant against almost any target which would be kinda silly

>> No.53553956

TIME FOR DEGENERACY

>> No.53553957

>>53553865

Bolters and lasguns are literally both just as effective against vehicles in 8th.
Since conscripts can be bought at a fraction of the cost, and cheaply made to fire twice as much per turn, it's way easier than you think.

A 560 point crusader would be about the same cost as 3 50 man blobs, supported by a command squad and commisar each.
The crusader kills like 14 models a turn with all its weapons, for 42 points of damage. If it's concentrated properly, maybe 48 points or so.

The conscripts from 12-24 inches on the other hand deal about 6 wounds to the crusader, for a quarter of its health, or about 140 points of damage.
At 12 or less, they do double.

Its true that the knight outranges them, and they will have to run up for a turn or two, but the fact that these two armies are even close to being on the same level,
let alone the conscripts winning, is retarded.

>> No.53553959

>>53553924
I think the acolytes have it actually. Anyone got their page?

>> No.53553964

>>53553913
My biovores aren't complaining.

>> No.53553968

>>53553892
O-Oh...

And Slaanesh marines?

>> No.53553972

>>53553917
Everyone can cram in transports if they fit.

But man, this one slight change with the whip changes everything. Wyches have always been really solid in surviving melee but really, really, super shit at hurting anything there with their S3 and no AP. Now, instead of mediocre shields for that expensive succubus, they are excellent fucking shields for their hekatrix who can actually tear things a new one, and you can still stuff a succubus in there for overkill.

Also, you get WAY more flexibility with Combat Drugs now. Gaze upon pic fucking related.

>> No.53553974

>>53553911
Feels bad man
I've a feeling we will be waiting longer than six months as well

>> No.53553978

>>53553913
well it's not like they were good in 7th. if you were lucky you would get what, 2 S5 AP5 hits? at least now pretty much every roll you make with new havoc launchers going to hit more than the old havoc launcher, just without AP.

I'm just taking mine because it makes my rhinos look baller and we don't have razorbacks.

>> No.53553982

>>53553912
slaanesh discipline seems great

>> No.53553983

>>53553922
>tfw my Iron Warriors can't spam mortars like Perturabo intended
IT'S NOT FAIR! Why can't we have nice things?

>> No.53553992

>>53553910
by making their poster boy look less retarded

>> No.53553993

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/06/01/new-warhammer-40000-battlezones-june1gw-homepage-post-4/

>> No.53553995

>>53553380
Aren't miniwargaming the inbred Mormon cultists?

>> No.53553996

>>53553181
>Is the whole 40k community this awful?

It's harder to find Narrative players, but they're out there.

>> No.53553997

>>53553974
please dont make me wanna kill myself

>> No.53553998

>>53553983
Does IG share any keywords at all with chaos to imply renegade? If not, I'm sorry anon. Not really sorry. I have 21 HWT mortar bases painted and ready for this.

>> No.53554010

>>53553852
Perhaps said retard wanted players to invest in the Battle Cannon again, since it's now the best long range weapon by a fair margin. Fine by me since I have 2 Classic Russes. Meet Clink and Clank, the Smashit Brothers.

In close quarters I'm curious about the Demolisher vs Punisher and Executioner. Someone wanna mathhammer that? I'm gonna magnetize either way, I'd just like to know.

>> No.53554015

Okay, /tg/, are we going to need 40k 8th and before 8th threads, or what?

>> No.53554024

>>53553957
>Bolters and lasguns are literally both just as effective against vehicles in 8th.
not against t6-7, aka the majority of vehicles , not everything is a leman russ or landraider , and bolters also have the edge shooting against t3-4 infantry (aka both their intended use)
to top it of both cost 0 points for their respective faction

>> No.53554025

>>53553957
>Bolters and lasguns are literally both just as effective against vehicles in 8th.
I have no idea what your current bitchfit is about, but neither of those should be used against vehicles unless there's literally nothing else in their range and these guys have nothing better to do.

>> No.53554035

>>53553581
Word Bearers will continue to be shit (which is sad, its the legion I play) because they continue to focus on mono god legions and tzeentch ruined any summoning.
Not that the rules for it were any good in 7th.

All those cool possibilities with possessed, gal vorbak or models like zardu layak and its worth nothing.

>> No.53554037

>>53553916
Hellions are fast, access to drugs and their weapons do 2dmg each
Not to mention if you combo up Wyches, Succy and Bloodbrides you get a obscene amount of attacks with decent -AP
Beasts are effectively the same as before - Birds and Kymerae are the only ones worth taking

>>53553898
Actually you might be right, not that GW made it clear

>> No.53554040

>>53554015
No

>> No.53554042

>>53554010
I know they got tougher but man does it feel like they knocked the teeth out of the Russ. BC does what? 1.35 dead marines on average?

>> No.53554044

>>53554010

Very smooth colour. Do you use an airbrush?

>> No.53554045

>>53553773
You a fan of chaos knights?

>> No.53554053

>>53554024
Yeah, I should have said against knights, not vehicles.
Only realized that error after posting.

>>53554025
If you read my post, I gave an example of how conscripts with lasguns an no antitank at all, out shoot an imperial knight.

>> No.53554060

>>53554040
Good.

>> No.53554061

>>53554045
I could be... go on...

>> No.53554065

>>53553993
That looks fun, in a batshit everything-fucking-dies sort of way.

>> No.53554066

>>53553733
Played a game last night with my generic Daemon list
>Screamers 3×3
>Flamers 3×3
>Exalted Flamers 1×3
>Lord of Change
>Fateweaver
>Pink Horrors 10×3

Safe to say Screamers and Horrors were trash.

>I miss 6e Horrors :/

Fateweaver's extra damage and d3 Command wasn't worth his weakened Invulnerable Save

Exalted's still suffer from short range guns and not enough punch to break vehicles.

Think if I play again it will be mostly Daemon Princes

>It's time to do the mash.

>> No.53554071

>>53553998

Probably will in the Forgeworld chaos book

>>53554035

It's a shame we have no idea what chapter tactics/legion tactics will do yet. It'd be neat if Word Bearers Possessed always got 3 attacks.

>> No.53554074

>>53552815
Any reason for it? I've got a bunch of berserkers, some of them have a chainaxe and a chainsword, which might actually be neat in this edition. Others got two bolt pistols, or bolt/plasmas.

>> No.53554088

>>53553648
This seems like a thing that has not happened. At least not in like one day.

>> No.53554094

>>53554071
They said the fw chaos index will have the renegade list

>> No.53554099

>>53553949
>>53553949
>>53553949
Please ;_; Respond.

>> No.53554102

>>53553997
God damn Khorne will be next I guarantee

>> No.53554110

>>53553648
>it's not a GW store and we're allowed to do that
Does GW really forbid playing older editions of their own game?

>> No.53554124

>>53554042
The defanged main guns are somewhat made up by the fact that sponsons are actually usable now.

No more snap-shots.

>> No.53554126

>>53554088
That's probably because it didn't happen

>> No.53554128

>>53554061
The only knight that's worth taking now is the renegade variant with two avenger gatling cannons.

>> No.53554135

>>53554037

I'll have a look at how all the cult units interact, guess I can give Hellions a go aswell as the nerf to reavers is putting me off

>> No.53554142

What do you think of this mostly-theory IG list? It's got most stuff I already have.

2000 IG: making a list out of what I have + a Stormlord I want.
Brigade Detatchment (+9 CP):
HQ: Company Commander w/ plasma pistol, power sword - 39 points
HQ: Company Commander w/ plasma pistol, chainsword - 35 points
HQ: Company Commander w/ plasma pistol, chainsword - 35 points

Troops: Infantry Squad w/ flamer, autocannon, vox - 67 points
Troops: Infantry squad w/ flamer, autocannon, vox - 67 points
Troops: Infantry squad w/ flamer, heavy bolter, vox - 60 points
Troops: Infantry squad w/ sniper rifle, lascannon, vox - 67 points
Troops: Infantry squad w/ sniper rifle, lascannon, vox - 67 points
Troops: 5- man Militarum Tempestus squad w/ plasma gun, melta gun - 64 points

Elites: Veterans w/ 3 melta guns, sergeant w/bolter, Chimera w/ multi-laser, heavy flamer - 199 points
Elites: Veterans w/ 3 plasma guns, sergeant w/ bolter, Chimera w/ multi-laser, heavy bolter - 180 points
Elites: 5 Ratlings - 25 points
Elites: Master of Ordnance - 38 points
Elites: Commissar w/ bolt pistol & chainsword - 30 points
Elites: Commissar w/ bolt pistol & chainsword - 30 points
Elites: Commissar w/ bolt pistol & chainsword - 30 points

Fast Attack: Hellhound w/ inferno cannon, heavy flamer - 110 points
Fast Attack: Armoured Sentinel w/ plasma cannon - 55 points
Fast Attack: 2x Armoured Sentinel w/ plasma cannon - 110 points

Heavy Support: Wyvern w/ heavy bolter - 93 points
Heavy Support: Heavy Weapon Squad w: 3 missile launcher - 72 points
Heavy Support: Heavy Weapon Squad w: 3 missile launcher/Lascannons(?) - 72 points

Super-Heavy Auxillary Detatchment: (+0 CP)
Lord of War: Stormlord w/ twin heavy bolter, 2 heavy stubbers - 452 points

Total: 1997 points, 9 CP.

>> No.53554146

>>53553470

Exocrines are good now?

>> No.53554152

>>53554099
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B4IGo22sDo4zdEtrRmEyelg2TkU

There's also a mega link, but i'm too fucking lazy to search in the archive.

>> No.53554159

>>53554044
No. Just a lot of cleanup and 2 thin coats.

>>53554042
Because of the variable shot count the BC performs much more weirdly now, along with a lot of other explosive weapons.

In point of fact it does this:
3.5 (average # of shots)
1.75 (guard BS, 50%)
1.4583 wounds (86.67%)
0.97 unsaved wounds (66.67%)

And this is out of cover.

By contrast the Exterminator does this:
4 shots
2 hits
1.333 wounds (66.67%)
0.667 unsaved wounds (50%)

Really I think the effort was to nerf all Russ weaponry so that the Basilisk (which gets a shot count reroll) could shine.

That and the fact that the ssponson weapons can fire without much trouble now. So any Russ without sponsons is going into combat naked.

>> No.53554160

>>53554066
what did you play against?

>> No.53554164

>>53552718
Not so fast, nidleaf. The weebs are already assembling their swarmlords.

>> No.53554175

>>53554110
Yes.

The games you play in store are basically free advertising for what they're selling so everything has to be current edition, GW models only.

>> No.53554216

>>53554053

The problem with 300 conscripts vs a knight is that the knight is perfectly safe once it's in melee since the number of 5+ S3 attacks against it will drop dramatically

>> No.53554238

>>53553968
Noise Marines are awesome.

Icon need an errata, but everything else is amazing.

Sonic Blasters are Assault 3 and the champion can take it too, Blastmaster is solid, Doom Siren is nerfed but you can use it in addition to any other weapon the Champion have, they all have an extra attack over CSM and they cost just a little more.

Also, the Song ability is very useful.

All and all, Noise Marines are not the absolute best Cult troops like in 7th edition, but they are very solid.

I would use them over CSM even without the Sonic Weapons.

>> No.53554241

>>53554164
Oh hai carnac

>> No.53554246

>>53553924

Acolytes have it too

11 acolytes and an inquisitor all with plasma/melta guns are sick as fuck

>> No.53554257

>>53554216

You need to go read up on how melee works now.
The conscripts can just run away from the knight at the cost of being able to shoot that turn.

Meanwhile all the conscripts nearby are shooting 4 shots each.

>> No.53554269

>>53553402
To stop WAACfag tyranid players from moving, shooting, running, and charging their entire armies turn 1

>> No.53554270

>>53554053
>If you read my post,
you mean the one where you gave the conscripts 2.7 extra wounds on average ?
200 bs5+ lasgunshots do 3.7 unsaved wounds to t8 3+
the knight on the meanwhile can move 12 inch , so if all the conscripts are in rapid fire range he has a guaranteed charge kills 14 models with shooting (if your math is to be trusted) and then kills 6.66 more of them in melee

the knight loses 3.7 wounds from 50 conscripts rapid firing it (which is almost never going to happen)
0.66 from 76 over watch shots
and 0.66 from 36 melee hits
on average
while killing about 20 models , without the commisar 16+d6 models of the remaining unit would run away

and commissars are really weak to snipers

>> No.53554271

>>53552718
I think the new living metal rule is better than the old one. Wipe out a unit and its gone, without soaking massive amounts of fire from armor + regen save against single wounds.

>> No.53554274

>>53553982
All three actually seem pretty good to me. Though obviously the Tzeentch one is a little less consistent without casting bonuses, those last two are pretty devastating.

>> No.53554276

>>53554060
Anyone who is a die-hard 8th hater can and probably will just move to Horus Heresy and play 30k.

>> No.53554292

>>53554257
>The conscripts can just run away from the knight
And then in its turn the knight strolls after them and charges again. After shooting them up a bit for the hell of it.

>> No.53554308

>>53554269
Oh my sweet summer child, I'll still be doing all of that even with these petty restrictions

>> No.53554314

>>53554270

>200 bs5+ lasgunshots
Gonna go ahead and stop you here.
Reread the post more carefully next time, or I won't waste my own time replying again.

>> No.53554325

>>53554241
>muh carnac boogiemonster
Hit a nerve, didn't it? Enjoy your new waacfriends enriching your faction :)

>> No.53554330

>>53554292

Yeah, I'm sure killing the extra 7 conscripts is worth the other blobs all getting double the number of attacks against you.

>> No.53554340

>>53554292
they might as well fight it. overwatch + combat theyll make their points back eventually.

>> No.53554362

>>53554325
As long as i can crush them under my bug feet as always I'll be fine :^)

>> No.53554368

>>53554146
Being able to fire a heavy 6 that deals 2 damage per hit twice a shooting phase that can hit on a 3+ is pretty good.

>> No.53554371

>>53554066
Anymore you could tell us. I got exams comign up so wont get a game in for awhile. How'd the LoC go?

>> No.53554383

>>53554074
Rule of cool

I'm gonna take them on units that play defensively (Heavy Havocs) and are liked to get charged, so I can shoot them in the next shooting phase.

Nothing too fancy but it's awesome.

>> No.53554397

>>53554042
I offer this alternative: I call it double battalion tankery:

troops now cost 40 points instead of 50. Grab 6 of them and their heavy weapons for cheeps. Take a couple of platoon commanders and commissars to make them effective.

Now take 2-4 tank commanders and make one of them Pask. If that's too expensive upgrade a platoon commander to company commander to fill in the extra slot.

Make Pask a Battle Cannon. Now use the command reroll on him every turn that he rolls What you deem an unsatisfactory number of shots from the battle cannon. Between that, BS5, and possibly rerolling ones depending on how you interpreted the orders rules, you should have about 4d3 wounds per turn.

Other tank commanders work similarly but less awesome. They should cost around 215 to 260 points depending on sponson loadout.

>> No.53554399

>>53554308
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xu1Sr57vE9Q

>> No.53554405

>>53553388
>http://www.strawpoll.me/13087891
No option for 4th.

Why bother?

>> No.53554411

>>53554257
>>53554292
>>53554371
You forgot the order: "get back into the fight"

We all Tau now!

>> No.53554416

>>53554160
Orks.
Exalted Flamers couldn't punch through even a Trukk.

Pinks got swarmed by Orks cheaper than them.

Screamers tried to act as skirmishers as they have in the past. But didn't have the punch.

Oddest thing is all the melee buffs we get
>Heralds give +1S, blessing to give +A/S.

>> No.53554424

>>53554159
Incidentally I went ahead and mathed out the Vanquisher against a T8 3+ unit vs the other two:

Battle Cannon: 1.167 unsaved wounds
Exterminator Array: 0.667 unsaved wounds
Vanquisher Cannon: 0.9375 unsaved wounds

Note the Vanquisher only does this well because of its 2d6-take-the-highest wounds,meaning this only works if the target has 6 wounds or more. Also note that it's worse than the Battle Cannon even so. Let's try one used by a Tank Commander:

Battle Cannon: 1.556 unsaved wounds
Exterminator Array: 0.888 unsaved wounds
Vanquisher Cannon: 1.25 unsaved wounds

And just for the sake of argument, Knight Commander Pask:

Battle Cannon: 1.94 unsaved wounds
Exterminator Array: 1.11 unsaved wounds
Vanquisher Cannon: 1.5625

This, coupled with the Vanquisher's inability to take on crowds, betrays it's sad state as a terminal sufferer of one shot disease. It simply can't deliver the consistent performance of the Battle Cannon.

>> No.53554441

>>53554405
It goes without saying thats why.

>> No.53554442

>>53554411

Good point. The command squad for that blob would have nothing better to do, so they might as well use that order.
Thanks for reminding me.

>> No.53554455

>>53552875
My knee jerk reaction was hatred and despair, but now that my autism has settled down a little and I've had a chance to screw around with some army lists, I'm realizing that it's really not so bad.
There are still some things that bother me about the new edition, especially the way blast weapons work now, but overall I think it's just going to require some adjustment.

>> No.53554459

>>53554411
means they can't get FRFSRF though

>> No.53554461

anyone got those "8th ed" comics from yesterday? they gave me a good chuckle in these dark times

>> No.53554478

>>53553957
This is more an indictment of Commissars then conscripts.

>> No.53554481

>>53554459

True, but its better than not shooting at all.

>> No.53554506

>>53554481
those orders are still wasted on ordering a meatshield unit to fall back and fire thier shit guns, vs letting a HWT/command squad reroll 1s to hit or something

>> No.53554509

>>53554478

Sort of.
I mean, even regular guardsmen without any orders at all, still fare way better against super heavies than they should, and still come out on top in way too many encounters.
But you're right in that comissars are what make the conscript blobs completely broken.

>> No.53554518

>>53554371
LoC did amazing. Literally the entire game was Fateweaver and Lord of Change fighting everything, while the rest flopped around, being useless.

It's why Princes are looking so appealing.
>No stat degrade, super killy, tankier vs. AP0, and "cheap"
>Could easily replaced the chaff for 2-3 Princes and had a much closer fight.

Princes also have 10 W, so they can hide behind units.

>> No.53554528

I just noticed something.
The hellfire rounds for the special-issue ammonition say that you always wound on 2+ unless you fire at a vehicle...
Tau Battlesuits don't have the vehicle keyword and nothing I found tells you that the Battle Suit Keyword also makes it a vehicle.
Am I missing something or am I going to 2+ rip a fucking Riptide to shreds.
(well I guess it does have a 2+ save so it's not that easy...)

>> No.53554542

>>53554506

Having +100 lasguns shots is way better than 3 lascanons rerolling 1s

>> No.53554559

>>53554528
Stormsurge has vehicle tag now but Riptide is and has always been a monsterous creature.

>> No.53554564

>>53554528
Is this for the Vindicare assassin? Yeah, he's a beast.

I hope that Beast Hunter rounds make a return in FW and make the Vanquisher viable again.

>> No.53554566

>>53554441
Oh, of course. My mistake.

>> No.53554567

So what's the standard in the new edition? 1500, 1850, or 2000?

>> No.53554571

Are there any reasons to take platoon commanders?

>> No.53554575

>>53554518
>so they can hide behind units.
Sadly no they cant its under ten in the rules. Kinda why I was curious about the LoC to see if it was survivable enough.

Oh well monster mash again is fine. At least its easier to field now so meh.

>> No.53554578

Is there a better cropped version of the leaks? I want a version with one page per 'pdf page' rather than the current pdf which is two pages per ' pdf page'

>> No.53554584

>all these faggots not understanding that to make games lighter on rules you actually have to remove some of them
>whining about muh flavor when they haven't played fifth and half the complaints are about shit like big psychic tables

nu tg a shit

>> No.53554591

>>53553014
>Being this ass hurt that your special snowflake hobby is now easier to play
I guess explaining the rules to people was the only time you ever got to feel smart or useful huh?

The old rules were a bloated piece of shit. Same goes for the old WHFB rules. 8th is looking amazing so far, just like AoS is 1000 times better than WHFB.

>> No.53554594

>>53554567
I'm going for 1500, looks like a fair round number and it's half of the point maximum suggested by the rulebook

>> No.53554598

https://youtu.be/BVkdw5s3joI
>old-school nidfags fight off waac bandwagoners circa 2017 (colorized)

>> No.53554625

>>53554564
Deathwatch, don't know about the assassins

>> No.53554627

>>53554542
>Having +100 lasguns

we literally just established that the order used would be the one to enable fall back and fire, so no you wouldnt have +100

>lascannons
or mortars, which are amazing
or for a respectible 172 points (depending on how much the tempestor costs, because its not in the points tables) you can deepstrike a tempestor prime, 2 command squads for 7 plasma gunners and a medic

give the tempestor prime command rod for 2 orders per turn to give both squads rerolling 1s, shit out 14 s8 -3 d2 reroll gets hot plasma, face tank shots with the prime and heal with the medic, or revive a plasma a turn

>> No.53554628

>>53552902

>> No.53554631

>>53554575
Ah crap. Thought it was 10 OR less.
Bah.

They're still good.

LoC (and Fateweaver) were done in by Boy mobz desu. They murdered the big shit easily. Just when I eventually ended up with 50 attacks hitting on 3s wounding on 5s I'll fail my 4+ (or 5+)

Which is why I think DPs will help. Double Talons with 7 A are the cheapest and (almost) as effective as the "best" load out of Axe.

>> No.53554649

>>53553319
>manlets
eh, it's the circumference that matters

also we had khorne, tzeentch and nurgle, so our favourite trap should be next

>> No.53554664

Whats the cheapest way to get on the conscript blob train? All my main infantry squads are Death Korps, what are good conversions for a PDF meat shield blob

>> No.53554672

>>53554584
A SHIT

>> No.53554676

>>53554257

You're going to have a hell of a movement phase trying to keep 250 guardsmen 3" away from a knight desu, let alone a whole army

>> No.53554683

>>53554649
It'll be Khorne again, mark my words

>> No.53554691

>>53554509
Not really. Without the insane bravery effect, battleshock balances the conscripts and other infantry just fine. Your theoretical matchup just hinges on whether the Knight player has snipers or psychic powers, or jump assault troops or whatever that can get at the commissar. The Knight himself can just walk over the conscripts and punch him to death if you aren't careful about how you bubble wrap him. Once the Commissar's gone, it's no longer even a comparison.

>> No.53554707

>>53554578
DIY

>> No.53554709

>>53554664
Glue these guys to doller coins and paint in the faces and guns. Nuln Oil it. Don in an hour

>> No.53554713

Are mortars really that much better? What's the cost per squad? How many wounds can they inflict on most things on average?

>> No.53554714

>>53554567
Probably 2000 for "tournament" standard. 1500 for smaller casual games. 1000 can get pretty small unless you're all infantry.

>> No.53554717

>>53554598
If I had to pick a species to live through the apocalypse I honestly think I would pick ants over people

>> No.53554719

>>53554664
ebay

>> No.53554725

Anons I need your help.

Right now I have a hive tyrant, 2 carnifexes, 3 warriors, 10 gargoyles and 20 termagants.

I want to go nidzilla bir am unsure what else I need. Definitely a trygon, but what else? Maybe an Exocrine?

>> No.53554729

>>53554627
>because it's not in the points tables
prime's 40 points

>> No.53554733

>>53554683
Battle Zone: Armageddon will be the first Warzone of 8e

Featuring DP Angryron and Gorkcarne (or is it Morkcarne) aka New Ghazghkull

>> No.53554741

>>53554729
i didnt say prime did i

>> No.53554746

>>53554709
Kek

>> No.53554769

>>53554627

>we literally just established that the order used would be the one to enable fall back and fire, so no you wouldnt have +100
What is rapid fire?

>> No.53554783

>>53554691

>commissars aren't just good, they're essential to infantry guard lists

Feels

Good

This plus tempestus being troops makes me happy

>> No.53554785

>>53554729
>>53554741

that being said i'm retarded and forgot the command squads dont have tempestors, only the scion squads

either way its an issue that needs to be addressed
>>53554769
>What is rapid fire?

its not +100 then is it? the +100 comes from orders turning your lasguns from 2 shots to 4, you cant get that if you use the orders to fall back and shoot

>> No.53554790

Can I make an entire army out of Deathwatch?

If so, can they use most SM stuff as well? Like Land Raiders, etc?

>> No.53554792

>>53554713
IG mortars are d6 attacks, at str 4 ap 0 and dmg 1, no los needed.

>> No.53554793

>>53554594
what would be the standard power level rating then?

>> No.53554794

>>53553922
My imperial guard army has snipers and mortars in its squads. 7th was pain. But I am so hype now!

>> No.53554805

>>53554746
/pol/ get out

>> No.53554808

>>53554792
So long range flamers with no auto hit

>> No.53554817

>>53554793
I guess 100

>> No.53554819

>>53554691

>Not really. Without the insane bravery effect, battleshock balances the conscripts and other infantry just fine.
The conscripts only take about double the casualties.
Which if you read earlier in the thread, you'll see isn't enough to put the knight ahead.

>Your theoretical matchup just hinges on whether the Knight player has snipers or psychic powers, or jump assault troops or whatever that can get at the commissar.
The matchup is conscripts vs Imperial Knight.
A matchup which shouldn't even be close enough to talk about, but is. And is matched to the opposite side.

>The Knight himself can just walk over the conscripts and punch him to death if you aren't careful about how you bubble wrap him. Once the Commissar's gone, it's no longer even a comparison.
It's easy to protect him, and like I said, even without the comissar, a typical shooting phase for the knight would be like 12-15 kills. Which is a significant bonus to the casualties it does, but nearly enough to make the encounter not retarded.

>> No.53554820

>>53554741
Eh, Tempestor is part of the squad. He's the sergeant.

>> No.53554836

>>53554785

It's +100 lasguns, because without the order, they wouldn't get any shots.
With the order, they get their normal 100 shots from rapid fire.

>> No.53554851

>>53552918
I don't want deathstars.

I think handing out that many nerfs, and then hiking the points cost is bad. Unless CC is as viable as they said it's going to be and in that case BK's being very choppy isn't bad.

>> No.53554854

>>53554817
everyone seems to be going with points, but i think i will use power levels to get a rough draft of my army, before going with points to fine tune their wargear

>> No.53554860

>>53554713
By mathhammer, the Wyvern is equivalent to 2 squads of mortars. Since mortars cost 27 (I think) per squad and the wyvern 85, you're paying 30 points for the wyvern's immunity to battleshock and durability (12 wounds at T3 5+ vs 11 wounds at T6 3+; it's nearly twice as hard to kill).

On the other hand the mortar teams can be ordered, which improves their effectiveness, but will also delete the point difference.

>> No.53554873

>>53554584
>Liking the dense rulesets
>Liking the easily accessible USR's
>Liking WS divide
>Liking Facings
>Liking blast markers

Dis like they took a fantasy game which had a good release and went "how can we hack away enough of our already popular sci-fi game so it'll fit?"
spoil- is what happened
If I'm a shit I'm proud.

>> No.53554874

>>53554790

Yes and yes

They lose some stuff like land speeders I think but get their own flyer

>> No.53554888

>>53554820
yes i know that, but he doesnt have a points cost if my point, unless he's gone from 22 points to 10 (9+1 for lasgun)

>>53554836
sure i get that, but at that point why are you not ordering another squad to get FRFSRF, letting the in combat conscripts get extra attacks off before getting mulched

>> No.53554896

>>53554874
Neat, thanks!

>> No.53554902

Blood angels assault marines can't take melta guns anymore. Time to put them under the knife.

>> No.53554905

>>53554860
Wyvern is 93 with heavy bolter, no?

>> No.53554908

>>53554888
>yes i know that, but he doesnt have a points cost if my point
none of the squad leaders have points costs, mate

literally none of them

>> No.53554915

>>53554888

>sure i get that, but at that point why are you not ordering another squad to get FRFSRF, letting the in combat conscripts get extra attacks off before getting mulched

For the purposes of the discussion that was being had, each conscript blob had its own command squad.

>> No.53554925

>>53554860
And Wyvern can be buffed by Master of Ordnance for 38 points.

>> No.53554928

>>53554860
I'm gonna be taking wyverns, for one i already own three and they can at least partially resist to alpha strikes unlike mortars

>> No.53554933

>>53554790
Their own stuff plus

>> No.53554954

>>53554819
Well then if it's conscripts vs knights, drop the commissars and orders.
Besides, even with all the bells and whistles you're never going to get enough conscripts in range to worry the knight

>> No.53554960

>>53554873
Not talking about actual rules, but some anons are legitimatly wondering about how their army rules were reduced when they were orifinally hyped about a simpler, faster version of the game
Last thread was awful

>> No.53554971

>>53554908
so are they costing 0 points, or the same as the other squad members? Its not exactly specific
>>53554915
I...completely disregarded that when arguing, you are entirely right then anon my bad

>> No.53554980

>>53552838
I DO like more dynamic legs.

Sphess Muhreens running n' gunning would be a cool pose to have.

>> No.53554984

>>53554851
They're two wounds now. That probably had something to do with the increase.

>> No.53554989

>>53554933
It annoys me to no end that there aren't any Deathwatch Scouts

>> No.53555002

What do jump packs and jet packs do?

>> No.53555008

>>53554960
Yeah...
My death guard went from relentlessly advancing legionaries to CSM with moldy armour and some extra plague marines.

>> No.53555028

>>53555002
Give you a better movement stat and lets you assault flyers

>> No.53555036

>>53554971
It's very specific. Each squad has a "points per model" and "number of models" in the points cost table. Leaders cost the same as other models.

>> No.53555038

>>53554631
I think this is why be'lakor is in the daemon section with 8 wounds. He serves as a mini prince that can actually hide and buff your units instead of drawing fire.

>> No.53555040

>>53555028
Which does what? Because they sure as hell don't say on the damn data shits.

>> No.53555042

>>53554989
Look at this niggas boy band haircut

>> No.53555044

>>53554954

>Well then if it's conscripts vs knights, drop the commissars and orders.
Don't be a smartass

>Besides, even with all the bells and whistles you're never going to get enough conscripts in range to worry the knight
The knight doesn't have nearly enough wound output to stop them.
As has been posted here several times, its only killing like 14 conscripts per shooting phase. It would take about 11 turns to kill the 150 conscripts, their command squad, and the commissars.
And that's completely unimpeded firing.

Meanwhile, those conscripts do about a quarter of its wounds at 24 inches, and half at 12.

Even if it's like you say, and the situation is somehow impossible, isn't the fact that they take out half a knights wounds from 12 inches away enough to show how retarded this all is?
Do you really think a bunch of conscripts should be anywhere near that threat to a knight? Even like 1/10th the threat?

>> No.53555071

>>53554989
An army that is created of tons of veterans doesn't have any people who are fresh outta the sarcophagus? Color me surprised.

>> No.53555075

>>53553349

It is true that Attack Squig may not be impressive but if your Warboss have power klaw then it is good idea to have Attack Squig to deal with weaker enemies.

>> No.53555076

>>53554989
Well they ARE supposed to be honoured Veterans, only SW have "veteran" Scouts.

But yeah it'd be nice with some affordable objwctive holder and snipers.
Stalker bolter scouts with specialist ammo yes pls.

>> No.53555083

>>53555036
> Leaders cost the same as other models.

is where i'm saying is not specific, the entry in the scions says it is made up of 1 tempestor and 4-9 scions, then when you go to the points list it only lists scions (although it does say 5-10 models)

i'm happy to say im wrong im just saying it seems a bit dumb that a different stat model costs the same

>> No.53555091

>>53554905
Ah, forgot about the heavy bolters. So it costs 3.44 but is equivalent to 2. You're mostly paying for durability.

>> No.53555092

>>53554984
>realize I didn't look at wounds before
>Apothecaries have 5 fucking wounds
>Darkshroud has 9
>Libby's get Mortal Wounds and can also cast -1 to hit

NVM I'm retarded. As long as CC is good, I remove literally all my complaints except that Rwing Command Squads should still be a thing.

>> No.53555093

Why is FW stuff resin
I fucking hate resin

>> No.53555110

>>53555093
GW dumpster and experiment factory

>> No.53555112

>>53555083
leaders where always included for free for guard

>> No.53555119

>>53555044
You realize FRFSRF only affects one unit of conscripts and is not a bubble right?

Still great but you aren't getting 600 shots without a few more officers (which isn't unreasonable to do now that they don't have command squad taxes)

>> No.53555122

>>53555071
>Scouts can only ever be new recruits

>> No.53555126

>>53554142
Commissars are 31 points because of the bolt pistol. Otherwise I like it.

>> No.53555127

>>53555093
Why don't you mail them and ask?

>> No.53555129

>>53555122
If you are stuck as a scout for that long then their is probably something wrong is all i'm saying.

>> No.53555130

Where are jump/jetpacks and other USRs rules?

>> No.53555135

>>53555093
Cheaper small batch productions.

Order 10.000 of something and you might persuade them to make a plastic kit for it

>> No.53555138

>>53555044
>Do you really think a bunch of conscripts should be anywhere near that threat to a Knight?

Yes they should, my Uplifting Primer says so!

>> No.53555142

>>53554980

I really dig the squad. Reminds me that I don't like the Primaris models a whole lot.

>> No.53555155

>>53555083

I think it's to ease list building. Tempestor aren't significantly different from the rest of the squad barring some melee upgrades if I remember.

>> No.53555164

>>53555112
>were always

but this isnt 7th edition, the tempestor prime used to be free but it isnt now, for example

>> No.53555165

>>53555129
Some scouts turn down the chance of becoming a full marine, Telion literally trains people to be captains

>> No.53555167

>>53555044
>isn't the fact that they take out half a knights wounds from 12 inches away enough to show how retarded this all is?

Not really. Honestly I'm not really worried about your verisimilitude premise. I'm just worried about if it's an optimal tournament strategy. If it's optimal people may netlisting it. If it's just odd fluff dissonance I have no problems. Tons of aspects of 40k are, and have been, incredibly gamey already.

>> No.53555172

>>53553356
No terminators for you untill the codex comes out.

>> No.53555174

>>53555112
Not true, if you math enough (compare with special weapons squads) you see that back in 7th sergeants alone were a fucking mandatory 10 points tax on platoons.

Which fucking sucked because 9 times out of 10 it would have been much preferable to just have an extra lasgun. But nope, laspistol +10 point tax for an extra attack on a model that will die to the mere mention of melee.

I'm so happy infantry squads finally cost 40 points instead of 50, now it makes sense to get them instead of suicide meltavet tax on every list (which was "parking lot or die" anyway).

>> No.53555177

>>53555155
sure but it would be nice if they actually said it was the same cost somehere

also GT get back on discord, you're my only scion brother

>> No.53555191

>>53555119

Yes, I'm well aware. The scenario mainly being discusses involved a command squad for each blob, as well as a commissar.

And like I aws saying, even without all the buffs, and whatnot, and even in the scenario most unfavorable to the conscripts, the wound trade between them and the knight still isn't very favorable at all.
The knight should be not at all concerned with them, but in 8th edition, it very much is.

We're using Knights as examples, but the same goes for other superheavies as well.

GW didn't do their mathhammer right when making a lot of these units, and as a result there will be many things broken at least until codexes come out.

I wanted 8th to be great and balanced right off the bat, and I'm sad that it's not.
But denying the problems won't help fix them.

>> No.53555196

>>53555092
The darkshroud also affects itself. Units that have auras that affect <keyword> work on themselves too so long as they also have that keyword.
The loss of a unified command squad does still suck though, but I am liking the look of a beefier deathwing champion.

Ride on battle-brother

>> No.53555199

>>53555130
There is no USR.
Only weapon types.

>> No.53555221

>>53555044

>killing 14 conscripts per shooting phase

Don't forget melee too, it can stomp surprisingly well now

But the other important thing a knight pays for is it's movement and unless the guardsmen start in the knights deployment zone he should be able to use his 12" movement and long range guns to mitigate how many guardsmen can actually shoot at him at one time

Doubly so if those guardsmen blobs are congalining back to the commissar

>> No.53555224

>>53555199
So how does one figure out what jetpacks and jump packs do?

>> No.53555235

>>53555167

Well that's where you and I are going to have to disagree.
I care about fluff and rules functionality way more than netlists and tournaments

>> No.53555241

>>53554989
Deathwatch doesn't take scouts. Scout sergeants are fully fledged marines using the inferior armour to better integrate with the initiates they're training.

cyrus was in his power armour when he was with the deathwatch

>> No.53555248

Can't stand the Nurge Prince, so made my own.

Rate please, /tg/!

>> No.53555259

>>53553912
Supreme Command Detatchment: GK Librarian, Rune Priest, BA Librarian, DA Librarian, Generic Librarian

>> No.53555260

>>53555224
Says so on units that have them.

>> No.53555265

>>53555221

These arguments have already been talked to death. Just read the thread and you'll find someone made a response to what you posted already.

>> No.53555266

>>53553624
Stop, I always get all sad and nostalgic when I think about that codex.

>> No.53555277

What's the appeal of Tzeentch? He makes everyone turn it to mutated spawn creatures, that must suck.

>> No.53555282

>>53555241
>He doesn't know Deathwatch operatives can wear scout armour

>> No.53555293

>>53555165
I can't imagine any reason why someone would turn down the chance to become a full marine but i guess everyone has their purpose.

>> No.53555295

>>53555083
Every model in the unit has the same points cost. I don't know how much more specific you want it to be - that's what it says. You might think it's dumb, but it isn't ambiguous.

>> No.53555300

>>53555248
Disgusting.

Claw could be better tho, look frail.

>> No.53555318

>>53553993
Where are the reguar warlord traits? I can't find them

>> No.53555326

>>53555248
quality
good work anon

>> No.53555327

Guard players are actually worrying about being bad this edition. We are going to be top tier I can tell. We have it all.

>> No.53555334

>>53552841
Blood Angels

They're like all about assault termirs and have more dreadnoughts than any other chapter (iirc)

But we just got wiped out by bugs and are being rebuilt by guilliman so who knows what we have now.

>> No.53555341

>>53555295
>that's what it says

literally where, thats what ive been asking, its literally the only scion unit that has separate models with stat differences

>> No.53555343

>>53555235
We knew the game was "everything hurts everything" from the start. And conscripts seem like the most extreme example in the game. Luckily with point balance updates GW can correct if they need to. Maybe conscripts just also need to be 4 points or whatever to account for the power as buff multipliers and the simple minimum offensive output of a warm body provided by the system. At least GW has a mechanism to handle that this time.

>> No.53555347

>>53555093
At least FW stuff is miles higher quality than bubbly, fragile, pinned to hell GW """""""""""""""""""""""""""fine"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""cast

I spend longer getting these goddamn things presentable than I do painting them at this point

>> No.53555348

>>53555282
I'm assuming that is something FFG stuck in their books, and I will continue ignoring it completely.

>> No.53555352

>>53555327

Post a list you'll be running.

>> No.53555353

>>53555248
Nice. Not too sure whats going on with the arm and the sword but very nice!

>> No.53555355

>>53555318
Gone

>> No.53555360

>>53555293
the way I remember it is that some guys just get told "ur a scout sarge now", and get stuck training scouts for all eternity

>> No.53555364

>>53553184
>>53553692
look at the unit size: 3-6. You can take 6.

>> No.53555367

>>53555348

FFG was never cannon.

>> No.53555378

>>53553692
>>53553184
ANYONE

>> No.53555379

>>53555343

Yeah, I think guard are going to have to have some points cost increases, and frfsrf will probably need nerfing. Getting twice as many shots is just too good imo.
I really hope they do make good balance changes with the codexes, because I don't want another edition of obviously broken unbalanced spam and cheese.

>> No.53555381

>>53555260
No they don't.

>> No.53555384

>>53555248
Noice. Looks really cool, though it's hard to make out in its entirety.

It's not the only model that doesn't look great, pic related is my home made Great Unclean One and am slooowly building up ranks of Nurgle daemons. I'm still hoping for a new plastic GUO to convert into a lady friend for Papa here.

>> No.53555386

>>53555347
oh I have those guys in metal somewhere.. Sometimes I hate this hobby, mostly when assembling stuff

>> No.53555387

>>53555360
Man being that guys gotta suck. It's like being the guy with the lowest score in the police academy. You dont get to become a new officer you just get to sit around and tell people how to do the job you want.

>> No.53555392

>>53555334
They're mostly vanguard vets, assault marines and death company than assault termies. I thought it was the SW that had the most dreads? Though that might have changed with the whole Magnus thing

>> No.53555401

>>53555341
In the points table? The unit is "Militarum Tempestus Scions", models per unit is 5-10, and the points cost of each and every single one of those models is 9, (witthout wargear). What part of this are you struggling to understand?

>> No.53555402

>>53555293
It's a honourable role for acolytes (who survive intact in body and mind) the failure of the black carpace or other mandatory enhancements.

>> No.53555404

>>53555352
I don't even know yet. Scions for mobility, Conscripts for field control and tarpitting, at least 3 commissars, 2-4 mortar squads, lascannon squads, basilisks, Manticore, ratlings. Not sure what else.

>> No.53555415

>>53554805
>thinks kek is from pol
Newfag pls go.

>> No.53555417

>>53555401
the part where the tempestor is specifically not a scion, it never has been because it has different fucking stats and it costed almost twice as much as scions in 7th edition

all they need to do is either say "the tempestor is a scion with the following wargear" or something like that

>> No.53555428

>>53555379
>>53555379
They don't need any adjustments. Guard seem pretty balanced versus everything else right now. On paper it seems like a lot but in game it will be worse and won't get to happen more than once.

>> No.53555434

>>53555381

>> No.53555437

>>53555417
Why does that matter? The points table is done by unit type, not by model type.

>> No.53555438

>>53555248
Custom HQs are the best
Here's my Archon, shame the gold death mask came out a bit too thick - but the model is effectively stratch built

>> No.53555448

My old Guard list ran:
3x 50 guardsmen
3x 50 conscripts
3x commissars
3x priests

My new list is going to run
6x 50 conscripts
6x commissars

Thoughts?

>> No.53555450

>>53555379
>frfsrf will probably need nerfing. Getting twice as many shots is just too good imo.
Not really. Without blob squads, concripts are the only unit worth frfsrf. And they're bs 5+

>> No.53555457

>>53553729
This.
Conscripts are cheap bubble wrap, not damage dealers.
IG players can spam the shit out of 10-wound heavy weapons for peanuts, and be rewarded for it with buckets of command points.
Also they still have at least one good tank in the form of the Punisher.

>> No.53555460

Do boys lose green tide if their unit size is reduced under 20 because of losses?

>> No.53555464

>>53555428

We'll see how you feel when you run against a conscript frfsfr commissar blob with mortar spam yourself.

>> No.53555471

>>53555248
Amazing! I have no idea what I'm looking at and that makes it even better.

>> No.53555485

>>53555450

It's still a way better order for infantry than rerolling 1s on hits or wounds
And their infantry is already more than good enough without it.

>> No.53555496

>>53555434
That's one jump pack unit. Check the assault squad entry.

>> No.53555497

>>53553292
The sexiest UJM of the early to mid 1980's with 655cc of four cylinder shaft driven power

>> No.53555507

>>53555457

>Conscripts are cheap bubble wrap, not damage dealers.

The math says they're both.

>> No.53555518

>>53553995
Oh, that explains it.

>> No.53555520

>>53555191

As a knight player I'm relieved that my robots don't invalidate an entire guard armies infantry

Actually I don't feel bad about playing knight lists which is a huge first for me

>> No.53555525

>>53555464
I'll be running the same thing so I guess I'll be up against a 6 hour game thanks to mass dice rolling and blob fights.

It won't be that bad. It wasn't that bad in 7th with fearless Conscripts that had 4++ with psykers mixed with wyvern and easier to destroy vehicles thanks to ignore cover autocannons and lascannons.

You people worry too much.

>> No.53555526

>>53555364
>>53555378
Thank you. Time to spend half my point level and my savings in hive guard. Now what to field them with..

>> No.53555529

For all Guard players, I have tabulated the effects of the six (actually 7 now because of the overcharge plasma) Russ guns and here are my results.

The best gun changes depending on the target, but not as much as you would think. I calculated average performance Vs 4 statlines: GEQ (T3, 5+), MEQ (T4, 3+), vehicle (T7, 3+) and Tank (T8, 3+). Open-topped vehicles are T6, but this doesn't change things all that much, and you'll see why in a moment.

Vs single wound targets (MEQ and GEQ only) the punisher is a clear winner, followed by the Demolisher and the overcharged Executioner cannon.

Vs Multiwound targets (all 4 statlines) the Demolisher comes out on top, with the Punisher falling into second and the overcharged Executioner taking third.

The battle cannon is a flat 4th place and the best of the long range guns. After that the order splits up again, with the executioner being better than the exterminator vs single wound targets and vice versa vs multiwound targets.

Dead last, to no one's surprise, is the Vanquisher.

Hope this helps. In both cases the overall winner only inflicts 3.3 wounds or so, so keep that in mind.

>> No.53555550

>>53553773
As gay, gimmicky, cancerous, and out of place in 40k as ever.

>> No.53555557

>>53555191
>>53555191
The thing is, super heavies are fucking stupid and should have never been brought out of apoc. Now people are finally punished for bringing gay knights and shit. I'm happy.

>> No.53555570

>>53555529
I should correct this. The Vanquisher is superior to the exterminator vs multiwound targets. I missed a cell on my spreadsheet.

Otherwise all the numbers are accurate.

>> No.53555573

>>53555520

Hope you enjoy being tabled every game by the one army build that should by fluff be the least effective against you then.

>> No.53555581

>Chaos Lords have WS 2+ and BS 2+ and can reroll 1's
>Give the rerolls to nearby units
>Now actually worth keeping them with Noise Marines
Time to murder!

>> No.53555583

>>53555434
How about jetpacks? None of the Tau entries with jetpack keyword have jetpack rule.

>> No.53555585

>>53554989
The only chapter that sends scouts to the Deathwatch is the Space Wolves.

>> No.53555588

>>53555437
because I had it in my head that points costs were assigned per model, which was only challenged when i saw this squad

however i looked at the top of the points list and it does say unit so im retarded and they are buffing scions even more, 30% squad cost reductions across the board

>> No.53555595

>>53555417

The unit is tempestus scions

There are 5-10 models in the unit

The UNIT costs 9 points per model

The tempestor is a model in the unit

He is 9 points

>> No.53555596

>>53555557

>im happy about rules clearly not working as intended, units being imbalanced, and stupid scenarios becoming cheese, because it means [those guys] lose
Great.
Thanks for keeping me informed on that front.
Swell hearing from you.

>> No.53555614

Vox-caster: If a friendly OFFICER is within 3" of a unit with a vox-caster when using their VOICE OF COMMAND ability, you may extend the range of the order to 18" if the target unit also contains a vox-caster.

So is this a good reason to take a command squad? So far, I've not seen any reasons to take one. It's just an expensive 4 man unit which can be targeted.

>> No.53555617

>>53555448

Nothing wrong with priests

>> No.53555621

>>53555040
It says on the flyers sheets that only models with the fly key word can assault them.

>> No.53555622

>>53555507
Nah, their guns are still shit.

>> No.53555626

>>53555529

Where does the Leman Russ Annihilator fit in to all of this?

>> No.53555631

>>53555529
>Open-topped vehicles are T6
nah open topped is a 4+ instead of a 3+ for the most part
heck the only difference between a scout and an armored sentinel is the 4+ armor save , 1 icnh movement and the pseudo infiltrate special rule

interesting list though

>> No.53555633

>>53555529
So basically take Punishers on everything.

Well anyone who wasn't already doing that is a moron anyway.

>> No.53555635

>>53555573

I will enjoy the day when my opponent brings 150 conscripts for each of my Knights as that'll be a fun as fuck game

>> No.53555639

>>53555529
>After that
Can you clarify what you mean here? I'm having trouble figuring out exactly what scenario or set of guns you're referring to by "after that".

>> No.53555643

>>53555497
you not wrong anon, i chose a klr instead of a used one of those and ive always thought i chose wrong

>> No.53555649

>>53555617
Well, Guard Priests got squatted. So there's that wrong with them.

>> No.53555650

>>53555448
Is think about keeping the priests, +1 attack makes them less of chumps in melee. Another +1 attack from straken is cool too. With the fix bayonets order, you might even win some combats.

I think if do 10x30 over 6x50.

>> No.53555658

>>53555596
Sorry the rules are no longer tipped totally in your favor. I made due without complaining for years, now you can too.

The rules work just fine. Mathhammer isn't the game, it's just a general idea. There are other factors. Your precious knights will still be good and just as gay as they always have been.

>> No.53555663

>>53555496
Theres a easier way to beg for the rules

>> No.53555665

>>53555649
You can take them anyways. They've still got Imperium as a key word.

>> No.53555669

Why do dark angels get their own book over black Templars and white scars? Shit, I bet iron hands could be more interesting. It blows my mind how boring this chapter is and how they just can't get a mini Dex or a couple pages in the space marine codex.

>> No.53555673

>>53555126
Yeah, and tempestus hotshots too. Add those, remove a command plasma pistol into a bolt pistol and we're at an even 1999. Master of Ordnance makes wyvern rapey, hws sit in the Stormlord for protected dakka with a commander, one commissar each for the vets for independent operation, the rest of the commanders and commissar added to infantry firing line. Hellhound and sentinels move around fighting what's needed. Maybe switch the hellhound for a bane wolf, the chem cannon is also pretty nasty, and cheaper.

>> No.53555679

>>53555614
>>53555614
That and itbhas the highest special weapon density in the game; every single model in the squad can take a special weapon.

4 meltas? Yes.
4 flamers? Yes.
4 plasma guns? Yes!

>> No.53555681

>>53555415
Your response is just a sign that you're too far gone into the alt right scene.

>> No.53555688

>>53555614
it's a better special weapons squad than a special weapons squad
plunk a medic in there and and revive your bossman on a 4+
shooting at a 4 wound 5+ save unit is probably gonna mean your opponent is wasting some shots because overkill

>> No.53555693

>>53555583
The rule that jetpack units get is "fly". It lets them fall back from melee and still fire that turn.

>> No.53555698

>>53555583
From my 3 minute skim I recall they have the FLY rule.
Thats what they get.

>> No.53555704

>>53555658

I'm neither a knight nor imperial guard player.
Well I've got like 40 unpainted guardsmen in a box somewhere, but whatever.

Point is, I'm frustrated that conscript blobs is a meta way to deal with superheavies, the exact opposite of how it should work.

They'll hopefully fix it with the codexes, but until then, at least you get to feel good after being sexually bullied by a knights player.

>> No.53555710

WHAT THE HELL CAN TAKE PHYLACTERIES

ALSO HOW DO I FIX MY BROKEN CAPSLOCK BUTTON

>> No.53555712

>>53555673
Master of ordnance has the big drawback of functioning only against targets 36" or more aways wich is a huge distance considering it's 3/4 of the Wyvern's range

>> No.53555715

>>53555679
One heavy bolter and the squad melts, goodbye points.

>> No.53555716

Deldar players, how should I equip scourges in 8th, given that
>all blaster bitz will be being used on kabalite warriors/trueborn
>as will all splinter cannon bitz
Is it worth giving them dark lances? I'll have loads of those left over, while you only get a single heat lance & haywire blaster bit in each scourge kit. And they still hit on a 4+ if they move.

>> No.53555735

>>53555704
I never had trouble with knights I just think they are ill fitting. I hate super heavies and hated apoc back in the day.

>> No.53555740

I'm awful at theory crafting and I'm drawing a blank in how to equip death company. They're still blenders but they're extremely expensive right now, is bp+chainsword the best loadout just to keep costs down?

>> No.53555744

>>53555681
Are you one of those people who cant remember things from more than a year or two ago?

I've spent way more time saying "kek" as the bastardised Asian (or orcish for wow friends) version of "lol" than anything "alt-right".

Top kek m80 you're fixated on politics, not me.

>> No.53555747

>>53555715
transports exist

>> No.53555758

RIP Necrons

>> No.53555763

>>53555002
Fly lets you fall back from cc and still fire. Also changes how you interact with some terrain.

>> No.53555766

>>53555626
Standby.

Assuming it's a 2-shot lascannon, the annihilator is equivalent to the Demolisher against vehicles and tanks and inferior to it against infantry.

>> No.53555767

Anyone experimenting with primaris in armies yet?
Are primaris marines getting their own book or are they going to be in the marine Dex?
When is the marine Dex coming?

Any answers would be appreciated.

>> No.53555770

>>53555715
a heavy bolter fired at bs3+ deals 1.1111 wounds to a command squad in cover

>> No.53555782

>>53555735

Okay. I don't really disagree with that.
I'm not saying super heavies were any better in 7th btw.
Knight armies either won by default, or got tabled because the enemy brought tons of AT. There was really no in between.

>> No.53555792

>>53555704
>>53555573

Conscript spam is Literally hard countered by vindicares

>> No.53555803

>>53555763
Damn

That makes eldar vehicles pretty goddamn good actually, fire prisms can disengage and blast the shit out of AT melee squads then

>> No.53555807

>>53555792
How?

>> No.53555815

>>53555614
The Vox unit on one infantry squad works to give orders to other infantry squads so no real reason to get the command squad.

>> No.53555816

>>53555807
Kill the comissars. Any snipers will do that since comissars cant take fire for shit.

>> No.53555821

>>53555792

The cheesiest parts of it are, yes.
Boy, I sure am glad fucking conscript blobs are going to be so meta that we have to come up with ways to hard counter and out cheese them!

>> No.53555823

>>53555639
I mean everything after the Battle Cannon, which is the 4th best gun against everything.

If you don't include forge world, anyway.

>> No.53555835

>>53555792
That's why you have more than Conscript spam to win.

>> No.53555837

>>53555807
Vindicare targets out characters
If Vindi in cover targets reduce their Hit Rolls by 2 (6 reduced by 2 is 4, conscripts can't shoot him)
He hits on 2+, wounds infantry on 2+, ignores invulnerable saves, and does d3 damage from a mile away.

>> No.53555841

>>53555807
take out the commissar, kill 26 conscripts and the others run away to the point where the unit size is irrelevant
a commissar is t3 w3 5+ so even a normal sniper rifle will do the job quite easily

>> No.53555847

>>53555643
Gotta get it in the siren blue, the wineberry color is what turned me away from every other one I'd seen

>> No.53555854

>>53555816
>>53555837
>>53555841
damn, guard really did get fucked over

>> No.53555858

>>53555821
You're stupid. Every army will have units and characters that need sniping. Snipers will be a meta unit and so having counters to snipers will also be meta. Character hiding and spam will be real.

>> No.53555874

>>53555807

One vindicare will remove a commissar every other turn, two will remove a commissar per turn

>> No.53555878

>>53555858
There is no way to hide characters from snipers, as far as I know only one unit has any kind of "bodyguard" ability.

>> No.53555885

>>53555837
don't forget da vinci is a character so you can't even target him most of the time

>> No.53555888

>>53555854
Not really. We have 31 point Commissars. We will have more than one.

>> No.53555892

>>53555858
Snipers are pretty damn expensive, though, and characters have a ton of wounds now.

These are 20 a pop, still good probably but I think people overestimate just how much of a gamechanger snipers will be.

>> No.53555894

>>53555767
>Anyone experimenting with primaris in armies yet?
No

>> No.53555895

>>53555874
Two vindicares are 180 pts. Still cheaper than the Blob + Commissar

>> No.53555899

>>53555874
Well, for the price of a Vindicaire, they can probably afford a lot of Commissars.

>> No.53555904

>>53555868
>>53555868
>>53555868
>>53555868

>> No.53555905

>>53555858

Great, better hope you can get some sniper in your army, or you get auto tabled by commander cheese lists.

>> No.53555906

>>53555878
You can physically block the LoS with vehicles. A wall of rhinos/chimeras to guard characters. Heck a lemon is pretty sturdy wall to overcome.

>> No.53555909

>>53555878
space marine honour guard have a bodyguard rule, I believe tau drones and tyranid guards also have something similar

Oh, and Nork. Nork's got his bodyguard rule too.

>> No.53555911

>>53555878
Out of los is what I meant by hide.

>> No.53555914

>>53555712
Yeah, I see it now. Maybe switch him out for a Command Squad with medipack and flag for an even 2000.

>> No.53555919

>>53555740
Kinda depends on your typical targets. If you aren't sure i'd go with mostly BP/CS and a few Thunder Hammers mixed in to give them game against heavier targets.

>> No.53555927

>>53555841
Sniper rifles have ap- and only deal 1 damage, and only deal mortal wounds on a 6. The exitus rifle the Vindicare uses has slightly under a 1/3 chance to outright kill a commissar, though.

Basically if you're guard, any assassin's on the field need to die IMMEDIATELY.

Which is a shame because the Vindicare imposes a -2 on enemy BS if he's in cover, AND gets a 4++. So you're gonna need to put a lot of shots on him.

>> No.53555933

>>53555899

Commissars are roughly 35 points depending on kit.

>> No.53555949

>>53555927
And a character. So probably won't even be a valid target.

>> No.53555967

>>53555899
Vindicares are 90 ppm or 180pts for 2
50 conscripts + 1 Commissar = 180pts

>> No.53555970

>>53555927
and a commisar is t3 sv 5+ he's as squishy as a guardsman aside from his 3wounds
4 successful sniper rifle wounds and he's out most likely

>> No.53555974

>>53553995
Nah man, they're just Canadian. Easy mistake to make.

>> No.53555978

>>53555927
Need counter snipers for him. I need more ratlings. I only have 8. Also you can use vehicles to block Los for Commissars.

>> No.53555980

>>53555196
>Ride on battle-brother
I'll call you when I find those totally unrelated heretics we're really focused on for some reason.

>> No.53555987

>>53555949
Yeah, you'd have to countersnipe or flank him. He's probably one of the most survivable units in the game now.

>> No.53555995

>>53555892
Thinking that Skitarii Transuranics will probably be up there in terms of sniping. S7 Ap-2 Ignore Cover D3 Damage with a chance for a Mortal Wound, and two per squad at BS4.

Sure, they won't be oneshotting big boys, but lesser characters won't be happy.

Perhaps I should make a Vindicare Ranger Alpha Primus. Might be fun to team them up with two 5-Ranger Arquebus squads, about thirty to forty Vanguard, a row of NeutronCrawlers with an Icarus and a couple Destroyer squads and pop leaders and buffs from a mile away.

>> No.53556006

>>53555823
Ah, I see. I was just confused by the listing of both overcharged executioner and executioner and your paragraph break. That's all one sceanrio.

>> No.53556045

>>53555854
Nah, this is normal gameplay and target priority stuff.

>> No.53556051

>>53555918
>>53555918
>>53555918
>>53555918
>>53555918
New Thread

>> No.53556067

>>53555970
4.5 wounds, because of that 5++. That's 6.75 hits, which is 10.125 shots.

You'd need an entire squad of ratlings or similar b.s. 3+ snipers firing all at once to kill ONE (maybe), and any guard player worth his models will be taking two if he's got a big blob,since they're so cheap.

Hardly a hard counter.

>> No.53556072

>>53555878
There are a bunch of bodyguard units. Not everyone has them though.

>> No.53556089

>>53555899
2-3>>53555899

>> No.53556206

Anybody got a mega link for the full 8th edition leak? Like all the books?

>> No.53556208

>>53555841
>kill 26 conscripts
I was doing the math in this and it's harder than people think. An earthshaker kills ~2 a turn.
A punisher kills about 5.

Condos are cheap to the point where for the most part they can walk across the battlefield and beat most tanks to death with their rifle butts, for the same amount of points.

>> No.53556281

>>53555277
Forbidden knowledge, magical powers, and hope for a better future.

>> No.53556310

>>53555347
What the fuck.

SUPERIOR BRITISH PLASTIC FOLDED OVER A MILLION TIMES

>> No.53556325

>>53556206
It's in the thread, if you can't find it, 40k isn't for you.

>> No.53556360

>>53555434
None of the Tau Jetpacks say anything

>> No.53556375

>>53555892
Ratlings are 7pts. You could easily take 30 squads of them which more than enough to kill T4 5w 3+ character per turn. Or 3x T3 4w 5+ characters.

>> No.53556388

>>53556325
It's not the link in the op is it? That's a tiny file

>> No.53556421

>>53556388
They work, used to be a link with raw images but it ate bandwidth like mad.

>> No.53556459

>>53554142
Got a list for my upcoming Apoc

Brigade:
-- HQ
- Tank Cmd
- Tank Cmd
- Cmpny Cmd
- Cmpny Cmd
- Cmpny Cmd

-- Troops
- Tempestus (meltas)
- Infantry (GL)
- Infantry (GL)
- Infantry (GL)
- Infantry (GL)
- Infantry (GL)

-- Elite
- Bullgryns
- Special Weapons (Demo)
- Veterans (Melta, Lascan)
- Veterans (Sniper, Lascan)
- Veterans (HeavyFl, Fl, Lascan)
- Command Sq (Plasma)
- Command Sq (GL)
- Command Sq (GL)

-- FA
- Sc Sentinel (Missile)
- Ar Sentinel 2x (Auto)
- Bane Wolf (MeltaMelta)

-- HS
- Heavy Weap Sq (Lascan)
- Hydras 2x
- Manticore
- Russes 3x

-- Flyers
- Valkyrie

Vanguard:
-- HQ
- Yarrick

-- Elites
- Primaris Psyker
- MOrdinance
- OotFleet
- Commissar
- Ministorum Priest
- Tempestus Command Sq

Superheavy
- Shadowsword.

>I mustered up the effort to pointscheck two units
This just in, Indexes are retarded

>> No.53556477

>>53556360
That's because all they give is a 8" move, [FLY] and [JET PACK] keywords

>> No.53556506

>>53553388
The fact that 7th was that horribly broken and still has so many votes...

>> No.53556678

>>53552938
>AoS killed fantasy

>> No.53556686

>>53555224
They don't do anything. Rules are on a unit by unit basis.
Models that previously had jump pack rules now typically have longer movement distances and the fly keyword, enabling them to charge flyers.

>> No.53556857

In my opinion, the best part about Primaris Marines is that they look less-goofy than the original marines and, -finally-, I can take 40k seriously.

>> No.53556889

>>53556421
Cheers mate.

>> No.53557206

>>53553264
Grot yer own teef ya filfy zogger!

>> No.53557252

>>53556857
why would you want to take 40k seriously? it's a love letter to all the over the top 80s action with 5 minutes to the death of the universe.

>> No.53557331

>>53555293

Horus Heresy had a similar character from Emperor's Children (who stayed loyal, btw). His deal was that he liked it as a Sergeant, he could do that job better than any other Sergeant, and was comfortable and beneficial to the Legion in that role and position.

Sometimes it's not simply about climbing the ladder until you fall off, it's about knowing the place you belong on it. Had he taken up the promotions offered him, he would have been a bad Captain and a worse Lieutenant.

>> No.53557398

>>53557252
It was in the 90s

>> No.53557479

I havent really kept up with this game since 5e, is it safe to assume that GW is going to be releasing the codices at a snail's pace, once every 3-4 months?

And is the general assumption that the codices are going to heavily update a lot of armies, filling in gaps/giving new units and gear to the ones that desperately need it, and special rules/relics for delicious fluffy armies?

I crave my army getting updated from the trash bin they're at right now, but also already know we're probably third from the bottom on GW's to-do list and would rather not wait till a week before 9e to get a codex.

>> No.53557572

Should I glue a flamer on my cadian guy or a grenade launcher?

>> No.53557663

>>53554528
Hellfire rounds? I dont see any of that in the new book

>>
Name (leave empty)
Comment (leave empty)
Name
E-mail
Subject
Comment
Password [?]Password used for file deletion.
Captcha
Action