Quantcast
[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / g / ic / jp / lit / sci / tg / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports / report a bug ] [ 4plebs / archived.moe / rbt ]

/vt/ is now archived.Become a Patron!

/tg/ - Traditional Games


View post   

[ Toggle deleted replies ]
File: 79 KB, 1061x771, 1229566348722.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
53225456 No.53225456 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Prove that a character who fails the Akagi Test can still be well written. I'll wait.

>> No.53226082
File: 19 KB, 543x543, smug-paul-atreides.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
53226082

>>53225456

>> No.53226106

Can't be done. I can't even think of a good moral character that was ever played straight and wasn't poorly written.

>> No.53226135

>>53225456
What does this guy have against Kenshiro?

>> No.53226141

>>53226106
>I can't even think of a good moral character that was ever played straight and wasn't poorly written.
Read decent fiction/stop playing with murderhobos.

>>53226135
It's autism.

>> No.53226191

>>53225456
A work of fiction can be imperfect while still retaining some value.

I never watched Fist of the Northstar but I have similar complaints to those you mention about Jojo. That said, the characters' developments are not the focus of that work. There are other aspects of it to be enjoyed, like the artwork, music, and effects.

However, I agree that better written characters would improve the overall product.

>>53226141
Played straight != never has any moral conflicts. Take, for example, Vash from Trigun. His character is essentially a straight "good guy" but placed in a world that constantly forces him to reconsider his morals.

>> No.53227672
File: 9 KB, 480x360, i'm not sure that word means what you think it means.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
53227672

>>53225456
>moralfag

>> No.53227682

>>53225456
What does Akagi have to do with anything?

>> No.53228420

>>53226082
Paul's character is a bit more complicated than that, imo. He's a good person at heart but the circumstances of battling the Harkonnens and later ruling as Emperor force him to become a ruthless conqueror. His regret of this and fear of the horrors his actions could create hundreds or even thousands of years later are what drive him to take a self-destructive path in Dune Messiah.

You could argue, though, that it's unrealistic for someone with that much power to not be corrupted by it, and that Paul should have held onto the throne and saved Chani, no matter what the consequences were for the rest of the galaxy. That he doesn't reveals a lot about Frank Herbert's personal philosophy. Herbert would later write that "Power does not corrupt, but it is magnetic to the easily corruptible", which implies that to a truly good person, like Paul (or his father Leto) power is burden that is taken up by the ruler on behalf of the ruled.

>> No.53228458

>>53225456
>I didn't understand the context of First of the North Star: the post
Complaints like this go on /a/ or, even better, on /trash/.

>> No.53228462

>>53228458
*fist

>> No.53228484

>>53228458
Explain.

Genuinely. Not trying to be an ass, I just don't know enough about fist of the North star to see where you're coming from.

>> No.53228523

Falstaff

>>53228484
>>53227682

Not him but the image was originally written because of a guy on I think /v/ who REALLY hated FotNS and went on and about how Akagi was amazing and "a mature show for mature gentlemen like me". I'm not saying that to meme, that basically was his exact words.

Which kinda ignores that most of Akagi's character is purely that he does what he does because he doesn't care if he lives or dies.

>> No.53228531

>>53228484
Simply put, it's a bait image, with OP strawmaning FotS and Kenshiro for bait purposes.
While he is rather straightforward, he is still more nuanced than that. Plus, the original manga in general went for idealised characters and character types rather than realistic ones. Which is not necessarily good or bad.

>> No.53228547

>>53225456

Superman. Go read All Star Superman or 'What's So Funny About Truth, Justice & the American Way?'

He's not always well written but no character that's lasted that long is consistently well written.

>> No.53228554

>>53228484
FotNS takes place in a post-apocalyptic setting where the bulk of the enemies that Kenshiro kills are either CE raiders who are over 10 ft. tall and capable of lifting steel girders with their bare hands or arrogant kung-fu guys who abused their martial arts prowess to abuse people under their "care" and worked under the Big Bad of the series.

Nobody who gets murdered by Ken didn't deserve it for one reason or another and outside of Ken and his friends, most of the setting is actually as bitter and depressing as you'd expect for a place that's mostly a desert with nothing but empty buildings dotting the landscape.

>> No.53228664

>>53228484
It was the 80s, and FotNS was probably the first post-apoc story written in japan that featured a ruined, wasteland-like setting where bandits and brigands were free to do as they pleased, with Kenshiro as the "only straight man".tm set on a quest to right the world's wrongs while exploding he head of every bad guy. In a sense, he is the prototype of a certain kind of hero in japanese media, and while the execution might be goofy sometimes (or rather often), it is mostly because it was sort of an experiment done in the era in which japanese comics were starting their sudden growth.

>> No.53228692
File: 21 KB, 700x700, Ackchyually.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
53228692

>>53228664
>It was the 80s, and FotNS was probably the first post-apoc story written in japan that featured a ruined, wasteland-like setting where bandits and brigands were free to do as they pleased

Violence Jack came before FotNS, and was even darker than that.

>> No.53228721

>>53228692
>probably

>> No.53228733

>>53228721
>probably

I know, just thorwing some trivia in.

>> No.53228736
File: 60 KB, 1010x176, morals.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
53228736

Now that's a bait I haven't seen in a long time.

A long time.

>> No.53228749
File: 744 KB, 1280x720, twwuLVA.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
53228749

Hey you know who's a better character than Akagi

Funny because his character is that he's a piece of shit and exclusively hangs around worthless piles of garbage

>> No.53229162
File: 32 KB, 500x500, 4t6kMu7b.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
53229162

Saitama.

>> No.53229183

That image is retarded.

FotNS makes it clear that Toki would have been the best successor, but due to Toki's radiation sickness, Kenshiro is the best second option. He might not be as good as Toki, but he's certainly less brutal than Raoh.

Let's not discuss Jagi.

>> No.53229239

>>53226106
>>53225456

Samurai Jack

>> No.53229253

>>53229162
>>53229239
Don't take him seriously. His picture is ten years old and we haven't fed this particular troll in like eight years.

Maybe a few more and it'll starve.

>> No.53229256

>>53229239
/thread

>> No.53229265
File: 41 KB, 837x768, bait is everything.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
53229265

>'if any work of fiction does not include the above it is well written'

>people still respond seriously

>> No.53229279

>>53229265
We can take a bait and have a discussion over it if it pleases us, fisherman-sensei.

>> No.53229288

>>53229279
But anything that could ever have been discussed of this was already gone through ten years ago. You are either children following the mistakes of the previous generation, or senile old men rambling about the same old bullshit.

Talk about something new instead.

>> No.53229314

>>53229265
Season 3 never

>> No.53229480

>>53225456
Isnt this the whole point of paladins?
they are able to be moral absolutists because their morals come from a source of authority (in this case god) characters who base their morality entirely personally are boring in my opinion

>> No.53229535

>>53229480
I personally think that playing with these archetypes is the thing from which I derive most pleasure. I like a Paladin that follows his god out of conviction even though he has moral qualms about it or his personal morals are different. Also appreciated are characters who struggle in keeping their morals, who still have to integrate theit Jungian shadow, so to speak.

>> No.53229541

>>53228523
It also ignore's the fact that Akagi himself is pretty moral. While he gets his jollies risking death, Akagi himself never does anything particularly amoral, and usually goes out of his way to punish evil or abusive people.

>> No.53229546

>>53229535
Yea I agree to some extent but that can often lead too some really edgy characters if you don't do it right

>> No.53229877
File: 48 KB, 524x1200, 1350831092594.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
53229877

>>53225456

>> No.53229891

>>53228692
It also had the most amazing dub of all time.

>STOP IT, YOU'RE SHOOTING EACH OTHER!

>> No.53230232

>>53228420
Indeed so, but if we are going to simplify characters like kenshiro into its skeleton, Paul Atreides almost fits the entirety of "the moralfag". In fact, i believe that in dune, either in Muad'dib or prophet books in the actual book, they, in simplified form, state "Atreides good, Harkonnen bad. Atreides kill Harkonnen." Or it was an excerpt from one of princess Irulean's quotes. Of course, even if Paul Atreides has these qualities, it does not mean he is not well writen. Thus Smug Atreides is my counterpoint to OP's bait discussion.

>> No.53230443

>>53228523
>>53226135
>>53229253
>>53229265
>>53229288


THE IRONY OF COURSE IS THAT NOT ONLY HAS /tg/ HATED MORALFAGS FOR YEARS, ESPECIALLY KENSHIRO, BUT WILLINGLY SUCKED AKAGI'S COCK WHEN HE WAS FIRST STARTING OUT AND OFTEN WOULD WILLINGLY GIVE HIM AMMUNITION TO USE ON OTHER BOARDS

YOU WILL IGNORE THIS POST BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT ANY LESS TRUE NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOUR REVISIONIST AGENDA TRIES TO SPIN IT

>> No.53230484
File: 25 KB, 323x454, For_what_purpose.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
53230484

>>53230443

>> No.53230535
File: 52 KB, 230x320, 1493929927499.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
53230535

>Kenshiro
>bad
Is this what we've come to?

>> No.53230546

>>53230535
you're aware /tg/ has always hated him right?

>> No.53230549

>>53226106
Ghost Rider?

>> No.53230558

>>53230443
>>53230546
Have you spent the last eight years in suspended animation? The whole thing hasn't even come up in all this time.

It's like striding to Berlin now and loudly announcing Germany has always hated Jews.

>> No.53230562

>>53230443
put on your trip and go back to /his/ my dude

>> No.53230573

>>53230546
Kenshiro hardly shows up in /tg/ discussions and when he does it generally seems to be positive such as the "/tg/ anime list" or the manly tears meme.

>> No.53230574
File: 53 KB, 1024x674, c035c879cad56c0a33a2ec8ca886b65bdf36ef20_hq.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
53230574

>>53230546
>/tg/ is one person
Given the amount of people on this board who play paladins and vouch for LG as the one true alignment, I'd say you are objectively wrong.

>> No.53230585

>>53230558
THAT'S WRONG MY KIKE FRIEND, GO CHECK THE ARCHIVES AND YOU'D SEE NOTHING HAS CHANGED ONE FUCKING IOTA. AKAGI REALLY SHOULD BE CONGRATULATED FOR HIS SUCCESS FOR CREATING SO MANY DRONES THAT CARRY ON HIS MESSAGE LONG AFTER HE'S GONE. YOU SHOULD BE PROUD TO BE THE PRODUCTIVE LITTLE WORKER BEE YOU ARE BUDDY! CONGRATS!!

>> No.53230613

>>53230585
>put on your trip and go back to /his/ my dude

>> No.53230658

Kenshiro.

>> No.53230695
File: 251 KB, 734x950, 1488145209882.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
53230695

>> No.53230749

>>53225456
This guy sounds like the kind of DM that forces the paladin to fall. Edgelords should just be ignored and banned from creating content.

>> No.53230789

>>53230695
>emps
>a moralfag

The Emperor is written as the epitome of "fuck you I do what I want and damn the potential consequences"

>> No.53230796

>>53225456
Samuel Vimes.
>He's the chief of police for a high fantasy metropolis. No sane person would walk up to a 9' tall living chunk of granite with diamond teeth and tell it that he is under arrest, much less have backup in doing so.
>Hypocritical
Uh, no, he doesn't murder anyone... actualy, I can only directly recall two people who he's killed, one was with significant warning about the nature of his weapon, which the victim actually leapt into the line of fire of in order to catch the projectile... the other was Carver. Carver does not change later in life. Carver was dead before Vimes had his first pair of leather - soled boots. Time travel shenanigans. Long story short: he's his own mentor, and carver was a bastard.
>Manchild
The paragraph does not actually reflect on the title, so, Sam Vimes does think about what he does, specifically how to do the right thing the right way. His morality is constant throughout and nothing he does violates his own morality, no matter how grimey that may seem.
>Unlikable
No, people pretty damn well like him.
>Shounen
He is a moral policeman. Startlingly reflective of a real person.
>Only show one emotion.
... nope. He's mostly inquisitive, though. Funniest bit was probably the spinning maids from his last book.

>> No.53230801

>>53225456
Does anyone think it's weird to include the incredibly moralistic argument "you can't just kill people for being bad because they might have a change of heart" in this tirade? Isn't that contradictory?

>> No.53230857

>>53230801
You expect consistent moral views from an edgelord? They fall on whichever side benefits them most: wanting mercy for everything *they* have done, but having no empathy for anyone else. It's like looking at the morality of a teenager.

>> No.53230868
File: 7 KB, 273x537, 1379871580305.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
53230868

>>53230801
Edgefags like OP don't know anything about the morals they claim to hate. They pretty much want freedom of consequence, and being able to be evil without repercussions (such as the hero getting sick of their shit and killing them) is the ultimate wet dream of these degenerates.

>> No.53230930

>>53230857
>>53230868
You would know, wouldn't you /tg/ trash? Fucking rats that you are.

>> No.53230951
File: 330 KB, 1016x701, Perfect alignment chart.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
53230951

>>53230930
Of course we know. We were teenagers like you once.

>> No.53230957

>>53230930
Says the ultimately petulant fool who wishes to do anything and everything without regret or consequence.

>> No.53230974

>>53230951
>Xenomorph
>Sexy-scary
What?

>> No.53230983

>>53230930
Just play GTA with cheats on. You'll get everything you want. Do whatever, no consequences.

>> No.53231014 [SPOILER] 
File: 307 KB, 1200x1000, 1494775951367.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
53231014

>>53230974
Dude, the xenomorph is a rape allegory. it's head is shaped like a penis. It plants a seed inside of you that tears you apart from within. Xenomorphs are scary-sexy.

>> No.53231029

>>53230983
Goat Simulator is even better for that. No police. No enemies. just you, your tongue, maybe a jetpack..

>> No.53231069

>>53226135
Kenshiro is self-justifying power fantasy about revenge. Some people just dislike such things.

>> No.53231076

Well isn't this a blast from the past.

How many of you were actually here in 2009?

>> No.53231079

>>53226106
Raoh will do anything to feel like he won

>> No.53231096

>>53231014
Don't forget that they were specifically designed to invoke both male and female reactions in a person's brain. And designed to be sexually appealing despite how hideous they are. Everything about them was meant to make people feel REALLY uncomfortable.

>> No.53231106

>>53225456
>Not realistic; their actions and decisions simply aren't founded in any reasonable human behavior
Jesus. Or any larger-than-life martyr character, for that matter.

>> No.53231109

>>53231014
Every part of it is designed to look like something erotically evocative, with an overall design of an apex predator covered in spikes. It's also supposed to be somewhat emasculating in how it overpowers, rapes and kills big buff marines.

Its fucking spooky.

>> No.53231171

>>53231076
I remember being so fucking confused by the person making that argument and trying to engage with them and explain how literally nothing they said was making sense but they simply got angrier.

>> No.53231208

>>53230974
It's Scary-sexy.

X axis labels take precedence over Y axis ones.

Sexy-scary is that one MTG girl with the big booty and a boomerang taped to her head.

>> No.53231256

>>53231208
Ahhh, thanks anon.

>> No.53231312
File: 95 KB, 512x556, 1477463462450.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
53231312

>>53230951
>hungry hungry hippos
i laughed way more than i should

>> No.53231399

>>53230558
But that is the absolute, unvarnished truth. DEUS VULT!

>> No.53231465

>>53231069
You haven't actually read it, have you?

>> No.53231694

>>53230951
I don't get Hungry-sexy (blue hair) and Faggy-Hungry (Sunglasses - kebab?)

>> No.53231834

video games

>> No.53232164
File: 317 KB, 967x966, (k) k explains Giger and Beksinski.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
53232164

>>53230974

>> No.53232294

>>53230951
>>53230957
I highly doubt Marxist pieces of shit like /tg/ even had enough braincells to rub together to 'realize' traditional morals were bad until you were galvanized by your overlords.
But now you can hammer out ten paragraphs to your heart's content about why moralfags are problematic and dragging down fiction and feel like a champ when your fellow parasites gather around here to jerk you off.

>> No.53232341

>>53231014
This shouldn't expand dong, but it does.

>> No.53232425
File: 101 KB, 666x800, 1494595755763.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
53232425

>board full of pseudo-intellectual numales feels both threatened but smugly superior to strong masculine characters who embody good moral values

wow who could've predicted this outcome???

>> No.53232555

>>53226106
Don Quixote, The Bible, The Green Knight, Faerie Queene, Piers Ploughman, Berserk, The Worm Ouroboros

>> No.53232568

>>53232555
Oh, and Legend of the 10 Elemental Masters.

>> No.53232607

>>53232425
Sorry, which board are you talking about? /Tg/ is full of neck beard mysogynist white knight moralfag edgelords, remember?

>> No.53232649

>>53232607
this is unironically true

>> No.53232655

>>53228420
Paul knew he had to do horrible things and give up his own humanity to save their civilization from some great catastrophe, but stopped halfway because he didn't have the balls to become one with the worm and take the mantle of God Emperor.
That's pretty realistic to me.

>> No.53232975

...what is going on in this thread?

>> No.53233042

>>53232975
Three intellectual discussions that are separate from each other all of which spawned from OP's shitty bait.
1. Morality vs amorality.
2. Sexy aliens from alien.
3. Dune

>> No.53233075

>>53233042
And then people talking about old /tg/

>> No.53233167

>>53229162
Saitama obeys none of those points.

>> No.53233227
File: 2.92 MB, 291x300, 1377048156138.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
53233227

>>53232555
>The Bible
>not poorly written

>> No.53233235

>>53233227
Uh, yeah. It's generally considered at the pinnacle of western literature. Because it's really fucking good.

>> No.53233242

>>53233227
I assume he means Jesus since he also says Berserk as in the entire manga

>> No.53233300
File: 461 KB, 368x701, 1418883061004.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
53233300

>>53233235
>never read the Bible
It's not good. It's not well-written. Most of it can't even be considered Western, much less the pinnacle of such literature. Do you even think before you post?

>> No.53233312

>>53233300
>NO, YOU ARE WRONG!
uh-huh

>> No.53233321

>>53233242
Well yeah. OT shit DEFINITELY doesn't have "good moral characters which are played straight".

>> No.53233330

>>53233312
You can't think of any possible reason for the Bible's notability other than its literary merit? Like the fact that people believed and still believe it in whole or in part to have been literally true?

>> No.53233343

>>53233330
You don't think something which is religiously influential can't also be well-written?

>> No.53233361

>>53233075
He said 'intellectual' discussions.

>> No.53233363

>>53233343
I'm saying it's certainly disingenuous to point toward its revered status as in any way indicative of the actual quality of its writing.

>> No.53233366

>>53233343
>coughdivinecomedycough

>> No.53233375

>>53233343
Different translations have different quality, honestly.
>kjv over rsv fite me

>> No.53233387

>>53233363
You might say that if you had literally no idea what criticism exists about the Bible.
>>53233375
Of course.

>> No.53233394
File: 10 KB, 201x251, download.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
53233394

>>53225456
How about a half-demon half-human half-angel who the fate of the universe revolves around, is well liked by all but the obvious villians and is one of the most enjoyable characters out there?

>> No.53233434

I plugged 'Akagi Test' into Google and got fuck all. Who is this asshole and why should I give a fuck?

>> No.53233435

>>53225456
Whoever made this image could've just said they hated Kenshiro. No need to thinly veil it with some pseudo-intellectual observation.

>> No.53233463
File: 11 KB, 320x350, photo19.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
53233463

>>53233235
>>53233312
>>53233343
>>53233387
ok

>> No.53233468

>>53233394
You might even say he's a man and a half.

>> No.53233495

>>53233435
The same could be said of /tg/ for the past ten years.

>> No.53233506

>>53233463
You wish your snownigger sagas could compete with the might of the dusty Jew dick.

>> No.53233509

>>53233394
Hes also half witch and is the rightful King of England.

>> No.53233513

>>53233495
Your words are as empty as your soul. /tg/ ill needs a poster such as you.

>> No.53233544

>>53225456
I watched the akagi anime the joke is that the canonical depiction of the character has nothing to do with this internet meme.

The guy who made this meme is inexplicably using the character "akagi" to symbolize some other character archetype that has nothing to do with the show he's actually from.

>> No.53233558

>>53233513
What is /tg/? A miserable little pile of shitposts!

>> No.53233835

>>53233558
Doesn't have the same effect when nobody can hear your glass shatter when it hits the floor.

>> No.53233856

>>53233835
Yeah. In internets, nobody can hear your glass shatter.

>> No.53233996
File: 122 KB, 515x1295, 1420070493383.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
53233996

>>53229877
Here, have an even more relevant version

>> No.53234039

>>53226106
Guts

>> No.53234125

>>53229877
>>53233996
>Appeal to force

Nice going - you just need to get rid of the hypocrisy and you're ready to shed away your moralfaggotry and become a true enlightened man.

>> No.53234204

>>53234125
That wasn't an appeal to force. But you knew that, didn't you?

>> No.53234221
File: 11 KB, 259x194, 1371879555490.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
53234221

>>53232294

>> No.53234557

>>53225456
The Akagi Test has no authority over the quality of any work, and no character is obligated to live up to its judgement. A thread died for this.

>> No.53234641

>>53234557
but the thread was probably just as shit desu

>> No.53235320

>>53233996
Funnily enough, just yesterday there was a STALKER thread on /v/ where OP was an complete idiot and shot a guy begging for a medkit, which resulted in all the NPCs hating him and OP complaining like a faggot.

>> No.53235375

>>53228484
It's basically Mad Max, except Max looks like Bruce Lee and makes people explode by punching them.

>> No.53235454
File: 303 KB, 650x1045, dredd.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
53235454

>>53225456

>> No.53235478
File: 51 KB, 555x344, 1437641347673.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
53235478

>>53232294

>> No.53235567

>>53233434
Probably some edgelord from some shitty anime that morons like OP jack it to for being nihilistic with a wicked sense of humor or something.

>> No.53235684

>>53235567
Well, the mango/animu is about a fearless dude who plays mahjong against the Yakuza. But the edginess really comes from the tripfag who named himself after the main character.

>> No.53235695

>>53234125
Anyone who shits on others for being better people than them, while also trying to excuse behavior that's obvious either selfish (at best) or evil (at worse), are the types of people who are only law-abiding because they fear the consequences of their actions, in which case their presence only lowers the quality of the community as a whole.

When you end up in jail, try calling the other prisoner who murder a pedophile moralfags, it'll certainly be interesting to read about on the 11pm news.

>> No.53235735

>>53235684
This is not the first time I've ever seen Mahjong being referenced in a show. What is it about Mahjong that makes it so popular among high stakes eastern gamblers?

>> No.53235838

>>53230443
I wasn't on /tg/ back then

>> No.53235874

>>53234125
Force is literally the only thing that matters in this world. Whether through violence or diplomacy, both are showing that you are able to exert your will and not be subject to the force of others.

>> No.53235918

>>53235735

A lot of criminals really like mahjong.

>> No.53235943

>>53235695

This. It really reeks of the kind of people who think to themselves that the only reason they don't commit crimes is because they won't get away with it.

>> No.53236118

>>53235874

This assumes that all wills are created equal.

>> No.53236167

>>53236118

Willpower is a product of environment, not biology. Even a cornered rat will bite a cat.

>> No.53236220

>>53236118
A superior will wouldn't cry like a bitch when their philosophy doesn't work out in their favor.

>> No.53236282

>>53236118
Nothing is created equal.

>> No.53236401

>>53225456
There is nothing more moralfag than thinking that killing active villains is wrong

>> No.53236412

>>53235567
Yeah much less pathetic that /tg/ does the same thing for whatever dual-katana wielding fedoralord character you play as in D&D.

>> No.53236469

>>53236282

Not without mass production anyway.

>> No.53236542

>>53230951
>Scary/Scary

Looks legit.

>> No.53236568

>>53230951
What the hell is the Sexy-Sexy pic?

>> No.53236574
File: 154 KB, 478x1925, 17358857_1276968632350309_6341265061955744547_o.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
53236574

>>53236412
Nah, shitting on people for having morals automatically makes you the most pathetic person in the room.

It's basically saying "man, those Chads sure are lucky that there are laws to protect them from me. Then they'd realize that beneath my warm exterior beats the heart of a cold and twisted psychopath."

You're like the worst aspects of a sheep and a (beta) wolf.

>> No.53236653

>>53231014
>>53231096
>>53231109

It's truly immaterial and everlasting in it's design. The sheer talent and skill focused into making a terrifying sex symbol is remarkable, especially compared to shit like Teeth, where you just have a sexy stripper, but then she has sex and her vagina has teeth.

Reflecting on such good design makes me even more sad that I am not in the slightest interest in Alien Covenant.

>> No.53236719

>>53236568
the MC from Persona 4, getting all the girls like the chick magnet he is.

>> No.53236795

>>53233321
Theologically god is the ultimate good

>> No.53236916

>>53236795
If you ignore all the shit he did before jesus, maybe.

>> No.53237007

>>53231694
Ilyana is a Fire Emblem mage whose sole trait is that she's always hungry.

Even for Fire Emblem, where they feel the need to write 45 one note dimensional characters instead of maybe 10 good ones per game, Ilyana is fucking characterless, lifeless, and silent. Which of course means people see her as a moe waifu. Low energy. Sad.

>> No.53237016
File: 481 KB, 225x225, 1412729138822.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
53237016

>>53225456
>moralfag
You've never actually been outside and interacted with real human beings. I can tell.

>> No.53237034

>>53232294
>/tg/ is one person

Also you sound like a parody of /pol/

>> No.53237083

>>53236916
If you don't believe God, the creator of everything that exists and the living standard of morality, had the moral authority to do what he did and give the commands he gave, you don't really understand what "God" means.

>> No.53237126
File: 551 KB, 750x1000, Wrath-of-Olympus-Zeus_card.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
53237126

>>53237083
I don't think anyone ever claimed Zeus had the moral authority to anything.

>> No.53237213

>>53234039
He's not a played straight moral character though he stars out violent and learns to trust people and all that junk but he for a large part of the series is motivated by hate and revenge not any sort of morality

>> No.53237228

>>53237126
The Greek thing was that though the gods were flawed there were still important things they were in charge of, mainly hubris. Yeah, gods are dicks but they're still the authority and the world will fuck you sideways if you've got even a single nostril pointed towards your own farts.

Except fucking ICARUS, Icarus didn't deserve shit.

>> No.53237236

>>53237083
A lot of people don't actually believe the Abrahamic God ever existed, and, I don't think that god is the ultimate god even speaking theologically, it's just the dominant one of the current age.

>> No.53237294

>>53235735
>What is it about Mahjong that makes it so popular among high stakes eastern gamblers?
It's multiplayer drafting chess. Your discards feed into your opponents and by focusing on what they throw away and change you can narrow down what they're going for, and thus deprive them of it while you can. It's a great big tug of war that still relies on the random assembly at the start so a game can immediately be over after one turn. It's got overcomplicated rules and scoring and within a Yakuza premise the playing and cheating gets much more dangerous, so within Akagi at least the MC's sheer insanity makes the risk a lot more palpable.

>> No.53237308

>>53237126
Nobody claimed Zeus was an omnipotent creator of all that existed, either.

>>53237236
Sure, but we were discussing the actions of God in the OT, and if you acknowledge those actions as having actually happened then you pretty much also have to acknowledge God as the absolute, all-powerful I AM. In that context, it doesn't make sense to say God acted immorally in the OT.

>> No.53237343

>>53235874
Fucking this.

>> No.53237354

>>53237083
>The Patrician took a sip of his beer. “I have told this to few people, gentlemen, and I suspect I never will again, but one day when I was a young boy on holiday in Uberwald I was walking along the bank of a stream when I saw a mother otter with her cubs. A very endearing sight, I’m sure you will agree, and even as I watched, the mother otter dived into the water and came up with a plump salmon, which she subdued and dragged on to a half-submerged log. As she ate it, while of course it was still alive, the body split and I remember to this day the sweet pinkness of its roes as they spilled out, much to the delight of the baby otters who scrambled over themselves to feed on the delicacy. One of nature’s wonders, gentlemen: mother and children dining upon mother and children. And that’s when I first learned about evil. It is built into the very nature of the universe. Every world spins in pain. If there is any kind of supreme being, I told myself, it is up to all of us to become his moral superior.”

>> No.53237413

>>53236568
Persona 4 protagonist wakes up covered in bitches because he forgot to turn his swag off

It's on Youtube

>> No.53237447

>>53237354
Again, in the context of OT-as-fact, then the corruption of this world is due to Man's sin in Eden. What you described is the fault of Man, not God. Man, because of his sin, is just deserving of every suffering that befalls him, and can only be grateful that faith in God allows an escape from an eternity of the same.

>> No.53237467

>>53237447
>Life on Earth is just as bad as Hell itself
I KNEW IT!

>> No.53237491

>>53229877
>>53233996
I strongly dislike self-righteous moralists but one gotta be especially dumb to denounce stronger people's beliefs in their face.

>> No.53237502
File: 1.45 MB, 255x191, laughing merchant.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
53237502

>>53237447
>he's looking at it from an Old Testament perspective
>but through a christian lens
Ha! You're not gonna get a clear answer that way, my friend.
By design, the world was never perfect.

>> No.53237523

>>53237083
Of course he didn't have any moral authority. Being a deity doesn't inherently give you any authority over morality or suddenly make your actions moral by virtue of your own divinity. Plato bitchslapped Euthyphro for trying to claim that bullshit thousands of years ago.

Being "God" just means that you have enough power that no one can contradict your decisions or condemn you for immorality because you have an unquestionable monopoly of force.

And that's even ignoring shit like the Great Flood, where God specifically walked back his actions and vowed to never do them again because he recognized that they were neither just nor moral.

>> No.53237550

>>53237523
>you have enough power that no one can contradict your decisions or condemn you for immorality because you have an unquestionable monopoly of force
That's literally what moral authority is.

>> No.53237552

>>53237447
There's a simple term that helps clean up that contradiction, though abrahamfags will get their panties in a twist over it

The Demiurge. Gnostic version, not platonic.

>> No.53237591

>>53237550
>That's literally what moral authority is.
Maybe if you have no understanding of morality.

>> No.53237611

>>53237591
The only morality that is relevant is the one that can be enforced.

>> No.53237636

>>53237611
Nigger that's law.

>> No.53237670

>>53237636
Not necessarily.

>> No.53237682

>>53237552
Why would the dorky kid in baseball shoes from Nocturne piss off abrahamfags?

>> No.53237707

>>53237670
Morality doesn't suddenly change because its no longer enforced. It just means that whoever is enforcing their imperfect morality is themselves immoral.

>> No.53237745

Children tend to enjoy moral centric protagonists. It appeals to the moral policeman freshly instilled in their young brain. Older audiences tend to enjoy characters who are reflective of real people, characters who are morally ambiguous or at the very least are logically fleshed out.

Adults who cling to black and white heroes are essentially overgrown children. It is likely they own every silly piece of plastic Nintendo has spawned and think the WiiU is an innovation.

>> No.53237757

>>53237707
From the enforcer's point of view, they are moral and you are not. And the enforcer is the one with the gun.

>> No.53237811

The funny thing about FotNS is that it often gets close to being interesting, but it always steers around any interesting implications of its own premise to make itself boring despite the odds.

You've got an invincible hero. It's a foregone conclusion that he will win any fight he's in. We all know that and so does he. Okay, that can still work. Just derive drama and conflict from something oher than the question of whether the hero will win his next fight. Except no, in every episode the fight is the main attraction and they always treat it like Kenshiro might not win this time, fooling nobody. It's boring.

Our hero is also a hardline super-square champion of old-fashioned morality in a post-apocalypse. Okay, that's great, because it presents a host of problems that he can't just murder his way out of. Maybe his people are starving and can't live without stealing, but he won't let them. Maybe there's no longer the infrastructure to support things like police and prisons, but he's reluctant to punish lesser crimes with death. Maybe he expects ordinary people to live exactly like he does, but they can't because fighting actually bears risks for them. Maybe he himself is starving, which would make him no longer invincible. But no, they just skip over most questions of material hardship.

See? It's shit like that that makes this show baffling.

>> No.53237813

>>53237745
I think the reason is more that morally infallible characters are more often power fantasies that children enjoy more than adults

>> No.53237846
File: 590 KB, 1280x1026, 1416456924261.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
53237846

>>53230974
>>53231014

It is sexy, no doubt.

>> No.53237944

>>53237757
Well his point of view is wrong

>> No.53237948

>>53231109
Marines kill Xenomorphs easily, the bugs need overwhelming numbers + ambush from a conveniently cramped rat-warren environment to really be a threat

>> No.53237952

>>53237944
Have fun proving it.

>> No.53238019

>>53225456
>needing a checklist to spot good fiction
Sad!

>> No.53238021

>>53237467
That's not really what I meant to imply; if anything, what suffering there is on Earth would be a mere foreshadowing of eternal damnation would be like.

>>53237502
As far as I can tell Genesis presents an account of a perfect world up until humans ruined it.

>>53237523
>Being "God" just means that you have enough power that no one can contradict your decisions or condemn you for immorality
No, that's what societies mean when they say "god" with a little g. We are in fact discussing the Abrahamic actually omnipotent, actual creator of everything type God. Morality in a biblical context is quite clearly derived from him; he made everything, said "this is how you do things", and then you either do it like he said (moral) or don't (immoral). The creator has authority over the creation, and more importantly the disobedience of the created justifies punishment from the creator.

For your other point, you'd have to show me a verse where God expressed regret or remorse over the flood. Just because he said he wouldn't do it again doesn't mean that he thought it was wrong of him to do it in the first place.

>>53237552
First I've heard of this, but a quick glance at Wikipedia leaves me utterly unconvinced of its philosophical necessity, since I don't think the "problem of evil" is a problem at all.

>> No.53238084

>>53238021
So Earth is a literal taste of hell.....

>> No.53238098

>>53237952
Why would I have to prove it? I'm not trying to convince the other guy. I know he's wrong and I'm right, and that I'll never be able to convince him otherwise.

>As far as I can tell Genesis presents an account of a perfect world up until humans ruined it
The garden of eden wasn't on earth tho. And that's assuming it wasn't just a metaphor.

>> No.53238136

>>53238098
meant to also reply to >>53238021

>> No.53238140
File: 29 KB, 358x343, What the fuck am I reading.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
53238140

>>53238021
>I don't think the "problem of evil" is a problem at all.

>> No.53238179

>>53238140
The problem of evil is the incompatibility between observed reality and a religion that Anon doesn't belong to.

>> No.53238214
File: 805 KB, 2141x3000, THIS_MAN_IS_YOUR_FRIEND.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
53238214

Reminder that Satan's greatest sin was attempting to liberate you from ignorance and slavery. The core morality of the bible is to enforce unquestioning, unflinching obedience to a supreme authority. The idea of surrendering authority over yourself and "placing yourself within God's hands" is seen as a good thing.

The original sin is defiance, and it is what gave you free will.

>> No.53238268

>>53238214
Satan never rebelled, God always knew that mankind was gonna eat from the tree and planned accordingly, and the whole point of mankind's existence is to make perfection from an imperfect world using our free will (as a long and protracted way of god showing the angels that free will is a good idea).

>> No.53238394

>>53238214
>Reminder that Satan's greatest sin was attempting to liberate you from ignorance and slavery.

Satan handed Eve a metaphorical gun and said, "Hey, your dad doesn't want you to play with these, because you can't handle them. Wouldn't it be SUPER COOL to just shoot a few rounds in the air, and prove him wrong?"

The Knowledge of Good and Evil isn't just KNOWING about evil - it also gives the person the ability to enact evil and therefore sin against God, and damn them to eternity in Hell because of it when mankind is not at the level of understanding to know the penultimate consequences of evil. Just like a toddler cannot understand the consequences that can arise from playing with a loaded gun, Man could not (and arguably still cannot) comprehend the ultimate consequences of understanding true evil and its long-term consequences.

Also, it's a classic "Fuck you dad, I know better - oh wait shit no I didn't fuck dad help" scenario.

>> No.53238467

>>53238268
>>53238394
>Hey, I'll give humans free will, to show all of the angels how great it is.
>Also, I'll damn them to an eternity of suffering if they do anything other than unquestionably following what I demand of them, because having free will doesn't mean that they should ever use it for anything.

And you guys worship this dude?

Man, every time I hear Christians describe their religion, it sounds worse and worse.

>> No.53238493

>>53238394
It's not an apt comparison because the consequences are entirely invented by God. Everything that happens is because God wanted it to be exactly that way. It's more like if an abusive dad said to his toddler "don't mess up or I'll beat you bloody," knowing full well the kid is going to mess up and just relishing the opportunity for punishment that he himself created.

>> No.53238570

>>53238467
>Also, I'll damn them to an eternity of suffering if they do anything other than unquestionably following what I demand of them, because having free will doesn't mean that they should ever use it for anything
Except he won't, because the christians were wrong and hell doesn't exist. The bible gives only the smallest mention of what the afterlife is like, and eternal torment is nowhere close to what it describes.

>> No.53238662

>>53238570
If one is going to believe the unfounded ancient ramblings if desert retards in the first place, it's just sort of a given to follow one of its associated religions as a cultural institution, including those things that aren't in the original desert ramblings. Sort of like how it's just a thing now that elves have pointy ears and balrogs have wings.

>> No.53238695

>>53238662
>balrogs have wings
fuck off nigger

>> No.53238711

>>53238467
The core value of the Abraham religions is blind obedience. Not only should you obey your master without question, you should thank him and worship him.

>> No.53238714

>>53236574

>> No.53238719
File: 2.20 MB, 1500x1000, z13[1].png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
53238719

I certainly hope that my fellow Christians in this thread are members of the only true faith, that of the Catholic church, and that none of them have fallen for Lucifer's disgusting protestant scheme to trick otherwise good men and women into damning themselves by separating from the faith.

It would be shameful to find that my fellows here on /tg/ are heretics who have turned away from God's light and instead pray heartily to demons while mistaking the whispers of the Devil in their ears for a "personal relationship" with the Lord.

>> No.53238721

>>53238662
Elves are better with pointy ears. Abrahamic monotheism is not better with retarded strictness under threat of eternal torment. Since the original did not have this shitty concept, one should not care about the associated derivative that does.

>> No.53238727

>>53238662
Also to ignore the things i the original texts that are inconvenient or don't fit the desired tone. See Tom Bombadil and/or the Witch of Endor.

>> No.53238735
File: 463 KB, 800x1280, Screenshot_2017-05-15-00-56-53.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
53238735

>tg, at it again

>> No.53238762

>>53238394
>it also gives the person the ability to enact evil and therefore sin against God, and damn them to eternity in Hell
There is only one sin and it is defiance. All other sins are extrapolations of the core value of unquestioning obedience.

Hell is also a creation of God. Created for the defiant, to be punished eternally for their finite crimes.

This, of course, presumes that hell exists, and is not merely a tool to scare slaves who dare to use their gift of wisdom in to abandoning it.

>> No.53238777

>>53238711
>The core value of the Abraham religions is blind obedience. Not only should you obey your master without question, you should thank him and worship him
Except that's wrong because the "core values" of abrahamic monotheism weren't values to begin with. They were a deal; you know, the whole Holy Covenant thing.
God went to abraham and said "if you and your descendants worship me, I'll make you guys a nation," and Ambraham said "sure, that sounds fair." And it was. The laws you find in the old testament aren't supposed to be followed because they're right of perfect or anything like that: they're supposed to be followed because God will protect your nation if you do. If you don't care about being a great nation (a perfectly valid thing to feel) you're under no obligation to listen to god.

>> No.53238798
File: 56 KB, 780x524, _tg_ 1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
53238798

>>53238735
Man I fucking love this place

>> No.53238821

The Count of Monte Cristo is considered one of the greatest novels of all time, and basically no one in it acts with moral ambiguity.

Why did Fernand Mondego fuck over Dantes? Because he was a jealous asshole. Why did Dantes let himself by consumed by his revenge? Because revenge was all that mattered to him anymore.

>> No.53238841

>>53225456
Seriously? This shit is trite; you want a moral character who is simultainiously likable and unlikable at once according to those rules, you goddamn akagi-fag.

A well written moral character: Sam Vimes. Prove me wrong. Wait, you can't, because your tastes are trash and so are you.

>> No.53238889

>>53238711
Y'know, anon, you keep posting, and keeping getting picked apart. It's actually fairly entertaining, even moreso because this thread started off as ancient /v/ copypasta.

>> No.53238893

>>53238098
Garden of Eden wasn't on Earth? I have no idea how you get that out of Genesis.

>After being kicked out of the garden, Adam and Eve got in their spaceship and blasted off to find another planet.

>just a metaphor
Nah, from a theological standpoint it doesn't make sense as a metaphor. If the Eden wasn't real, then the fall of man wasn't real, and if the fall of man wasn't real, then what caused the corruption of creation?

>>53238140
I don't think there is an inherent logical conflict between a benevolent, omnipotent deity and the existence of evil in our world.

>>53238268
Satan definitely rebelled in the biblical account. Just because God knew he would rebel and accounted for it in his plan doesn't mean Satan didn't rebel of his own free will. (Inb4 people say angels don't have free will; where do people even get that idea?)

>>53238467
People like >>53238268 are espousing a pretty unorthodox view of Christianity. This anon >>53238394 is spot on.

>>53238570
Jesus talks a whole lot about hell in the new testament: outer darkness, weeping and gnashing of teeth, eternal fire, and so on (those are all from actual verses). He paints a pretty clear picture of unending suffering.

>> No.53238937

>>53238841
All Discworld protagonists are boringly invincible. Nothing bad ever really actually happens to Sam Vimes, despite all his grumbling.

>> No.53238948

>>53225456
Damn, it's been a while. Way to bring back old bait.

>> No.53238976

>>53238777
Except that's wrong. Even predating the covenant, God demanded obedience. Adam and Eve were expected to obey from the day of their creation. Cain and Abel were made to offer tribute without a covenant. The world was purged of those God saw unworthy of life 11 generations before Abram was ever born, long before he made his covenant and became Abraham. Obedience was expected before bargains were offered.

The moving past that, the new covenant is more of the same from before the covenant. You are not offered a deal, there is no trade. You accept my son as your savior as do as he commands, or you suffer eternally in a place I created for the disobedient.

Your obedience is expected, regardless of any covenant.

>> No.53238982

>>53238777
Except that's wrong because the Old Testament roundly condemns the surrounding cultures practicing idolatry and various other things which go against the covenant, even though those other nations never struck a deal with God. Clearly the commandments that God gave to the Israelites, at least the ones concerning morality, were applicable to everyone, even the gentiles.

>> No.53238998

>>53238976
>>53238982
Oops, didn't refresh before I posted, but guy above me said it better.

>> No.53239015

>>53238893
Garden of Eden was heaven.

>People like >>53238268 (You) are espousing a pretty unorthodox view of Christianity
That's becasue I'm espousing Judaism, not christianity.

>> No.53239041

>>53238721
Well, it's inescapable. Every religion goes beyond its seminal sacred texts to include a body of ultimately unfounded opinions and traditions. Jews have the Talmud, Catholics have the Magisterium, Muslims have various tafsir and fatwas, and Protestants have the fucking 700 Club.

>> No.53239061

>>53238982
Yeah, because Idolatry was fucking awful. The idol worshipers were bad because they sacrificed babies by burning them alive, or mutilated themselves to gain favour from Ba'al. It was never simply about the idols.

>> No.53239066

>>53238893
You're still running into the problem that in your view of Christianity, God explicitly created beings with free will, then immediately devised an eternal torture chamber for anyone who used it to do anything other than blindly follow his will.

>I don't think there is an inherent logical conflict between a benevolent, omnipotent deity and the existence of evil in our world.
lolwut?

Evil fundamentally can't exist in a world where an omnipotent being has both the will and ability to remove it. If God is intentionally allowing evil to exist, then he's not benevolent, and if he doesn't want it to exist but is incapable of removing it, then he's not omnipotent.

>> No.53239075

>>53239061
And YHWH would never command human sacrifice or self-mutilation, right?

>> No.53239111

>>53239061
Yeah, that's part of the point. I think we're in agreement here when I say that idolatry and its accompanying practices were heinous and went against the values in the OT, and since the OT condemns those cultures even though they never made a covenant with God it's clear that those values apply to everyone.

>> No.53239113

>>53239061
>they sacrificed babies by burning them alive, or mutilated themselves to gain favour from Ba'al

...say the holy texts passed down by religious fanatics from a rival sect.

>> No.53239135

>>53239061
Ba'al was 11 tiers of fucked up.

>> No.53239147

>>53239061
>It was never simply about the idols.
Which is why the ten commandments clearly state that idolatry isn't a sin, but self-mutilation and human sacrifice are unacceptable regardless of reason.

Oh.

Wait.

>> No.53239206

>>53239135
More fucked up than commanding war crimes and cutting off every baby's foreskin?

>> No.53239220

>>53239061
That's assuming, of course, that the bible can be trusted to accurately portray the rights of worshipers of Ba'al or Moloch.

>> No.53239221

>>53239075
>Human sacrifice
You are reffering to the binding of Isaac. the binding of Isaac was a test for Abraham... and he failed. We know this because the binding of Isaac was the last time God speaks to Abraham in the Old Testament. He was supposed to not sacrifice Isaac - to rebel against God and do what was Right. Instead, he almost killed his son.

>mutilation
You are refering to circumcision. The mutilation I am talking about is much, MUCH worse that circumcision. THey would poke mens' eyes out with a hot knife to gain Ba'al's favor.

>>53239113
And also from the acheological evidence proving that there was child sacrifice happening there.

>>53239147
It isn't a sin. Just becasue something is commanded, doesn't mean it's 100% right. It's lawful, not good.
If you're Jewish, you shouldn't bow to idols, because that is the core of the Covenant and the deal Jews have with God. If you want to worship idols and you're not Jewish, that's fine: the commandments don't apply to you.

>> No.53239258

>>53239061
>taking jewish propaganda on the face value
Israelites hated every other semitic tribe with a passion, better go by archeological evidence.

>> No.53239265

>>53239221
>And God told Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac, but that was just a silly trick to see if he would do it.

Good to know that we're on the South Park level of exegesis.

>> No.53239291

>>53239206
Let's see "Holy" Prostitution, Sacrifices, Mutilation, "Holy" Rape, god knows what else.
I haven't really paid attention to Ba'al. That, I'm not the other anon who keeps going on about things that are off-topic.

>> No.53239312

>>53239015
Oops, my bad, but that does raise another question. How can the Garden of Eden be heaven under Judaism? As I recall, heaven is never mentioned in the OT, and many Jews were not even convinced there was an afterlife.

>>53239066
For actions to have meaning, the actor must have free will. For free will to be meaningful, there must be consequences to one's actions. God gives free will that humans might enact a meaningful love for him, but of course with that free will comes the opportunity to sin. Because he loves humans and respects their free will, he also respects the results of our freely chosen actions; he won't force you to love Him, and he won't force you to go to heaven. Thus, the existence of hell.

As I read it, hell is essentially being forever removed from God's presence; it's an eternal disconnect from the Creator, a painful solitude. It's not a literal torture chamber with cackling demons (indeed, the demons suffer in hell as well). It's simply the result of rejecting God; if you reject him, he rejects you, and you get to be alone forever.

>> No.53239325

>>53239221
The binding of Issac was a trap, then. The pact was for Abraham to worship and obey God. God speaks directly to you and says "I want you to give me your son as a sacrifice."

There was no correct answer for Abraham.

>> No.53239341

>>53225456

Why can't a well-written piece of fiction feature a douchebag who's in the wrong?

>> No.53239370

>>53239221

>archaeological evidence

What archaeological evidence?

>> No.53239392
File: 71 KB, 800x560, waiting merchant.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
53239392

>>53239147
>>53239221
In fact, I'm going to go further on this topic. If you are Jewish, you have 613 commandments by God that you have to follow (to benefit from the covenant). If you're not Jewish, there are only 7 things that you have to do to be considered righteous in God's eyes: the 7 Noahide Laws
1. Do not deny God's existance.
2. Do not blaspheme God.
3. Do not murder.
4. Do not engage in illicit sexual relations.
5. Do not steal.
6. Do not eat from a live animal.
7. Establish courts/legal system to ensure obedience to said laws.
If you do these 7 things, then God's happy with you. You will notice a distinct lack of God commanding unfailing obedience listed here.

>>53239258
except that's what I literally said >>53239221

>>53239312
>How can the Garden of Eden be heaven under Judaism?
It's a theory mentioned in the apocrypha. We're not even sure if heaven as a concept is a thing that exists, but if it does, it's assumed that Eden is heaven (since Eden doesn't exist on earth, and is decribed as paradise)

>> No.53239399

>>53239221
>We know this because the binding of Isaac was the last time God speaks to Abraham in the Old Testament.
Circumstantial evidence at best.
>to rebel against God
Which never ends good, according to Bible.
>Just becasue something is commanded, doesn't mean it's 100% right.
If it's commanded by a human. You're talking that omniscient, benevolent God is not 100% right when he'd laying his law.

>> No.53239426

>>53239392
One question, how is killing witches/sorcerers NOT murder?

>> No.53239444

>>53239206
>More fucked up than... cutting off every baby's foreskin?
Circumcision reduces infant and childhood infections and problems relating to cleaning under the foreskin.

Also note that in a nomadic/desert society, there's not necessarily always going to be enough water and supplies to be meticulously cleaning underneath the foreskin to prevent infections.

While in modern day it may be mostly superfluous except as a traditional religious practice, at the time, circumcision was likely a very important practice whose benefits massively outweighed the risks and side effects.

Calling it "fucked up" or "mutilation" completely ignores that it historically served a valid and important role in slightly reducing the horrendous number of ways you could die from disease before puberty.

>> No.53239460

>>53239426
Killing isn't murder when it's justified, and if sorcery is a crime with a penalty of death under divine law, then you best get executin'.

>> No.53239474

>>53239312
>As I read it, hell is essentially being forever removed from God's presence
Then you suck as reading comprehension, because Jesus talks about hell not as metaphorical place, but a very real place that's incredibly horrible.

Darkness, weeping, gnashing of teeth, fire, one who can destroy both soul and body. Shit is not ambiguous.

>> No.53239520

>>53239325
God also said that Abraham shouldn't kill/sacrifice humans.
The real rebellion he was tested for, however, wasn't to see if Abraham would disobey, but if he would argue. All he had to do was ask loud enough (like he did during Sodom and Gemorah) and God would have said he dind't need to do it.
But whatever. I could say anithing, and you're just gonna view it in the worst possible light.

>>53239426
>One question, how is killing witches/sorcerers NOT murder?
It's a law that you can't do magic. The punishment is execution. That's not murder.

>> No.53239552

>>53239474
I never said it wasn't real, but I do think the language describing it is at least somewhat metaphorical (which is not to say it's not incredibly horrible). For example. how can it be both "outer darkness" and "eternal fire"? If it was a physical place filled with fire, it wouldn't really be dark now, would it?

My point is that being completely separated from God is exactly why it's so horrible. God is the giver of life, and humans naturally crave his love and goodness. If you are apart from the very source of goodness, love, mercy, etc., then all you have left is bitterness, sorrow, despair, hatred, etc. It would very much be an eternity of torment.

>> No.53239563

>>53239392
The Noahide laws are themselves are demand for unfailing obedience. God arbitrates righteousness not based on the guidance of the character of someone, but instead based on their ability to obey his laws.

God has the ability to understand all, to understand the reasons and justifications for every action. Yet these are not the parameters for which he judges you. Instead he proscribes his commands onto you, for which you will be judged.

Do you not see the implicit demand for obedience in all of this?

>> No.53239581

>>53239399
>You're talking that omniscient, benevolent God is not 100% right when he'd laying his law
Yes, because the basis of the law isn't "do this because it's the right thing to do." Jews are supposed to follow the law because it's the terms of the Covenant with God; the fact that it's a decent code of laws is secondary to that fact.
Judaism is not the best religion ever made, and I say that as a Jew.

>> No.53239589

>>53239552
>For example. how can it be both "outer darkness" and "eternal fire"? If it was a physical place filled with fire, it wouldn't really be dark now, would it?
Are you implying that your God could not create a place of both eternal darkness and eternal fire?

>> No.53239595
File: 896 KB, 1268x634, IMG_1416.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
53239595

>>53225456
>Atticus finch
>samurai Jack
>classically-styled Knights in various works
>most superheroes
>Juror 8 (I dunno lol I always like him)
>old west gunslingers (Shane first that comes to mind)
>LotR (frodo, aragorn, Sam, Gandalf
>Star Trek (Kirk, Picard)
>Harry potter (inb4 faggotry)
>Shakespeare's whole works are set on a moral plain pretty much akin to your pic
>>>>Mr Smith goes to Washington
>oh, and RoboCop. Like fuck

There's more, but I think you get the idea. As a moralfag, I can say just because you have beliefs doesn't mean you can't/don't struggle with tough questions.

And honestly, moral characters are the most kickass. There's something about a man that sticks to what he believes in, no matter the odds, that's just plain cool

>> No.53239616

>>53239460
>>53239520
So how come Voodoo, mysticism, astrology, etcetera HAVE'NT been exterminated on sight?

>> No.53239630

>>53239616
*Haven't

>> No.53239649

>>53239563
>The Noahide laws are themselves are demand for unfailing obedience
No, they're guidelines for how to be good. God judges you on whether you're a good person or not. The Noahide laws are god giving you the test answers in advance so that there's no confusion for when your big day comes.

>> No.53239660

>>53239616
Because that was a law that was mandated for the governing of the nation of Israel. The morality hasn't changed, so witchcraft is still wrong, but you're also supposed to obey the government, and in this case most governments don't mandate the execution of witches.

>> No.53239671

>>53239312
>For actions to have meaning, the actor must have free will. For free will to be meaningful, there must be consequences to one's actions. God gives free will that humans might enact a meaningful love for him, but of course with that free will comes the opportunity to sin. Because he loves humans and respects their free will, he also respects the results of our freely chosen actions; he won't force you to love Him, and he won't force you to go to heaven. Thus, the existence of hell.

There's no meaning in said actions having the free will to choose otherwise if the only purpose they serve is to provide a vehicle to send people to an eternity of suffering. If you want unquestioning obedience and strictly punish any deviation from obedience, then you want an automaton, and there's no point in giving the creation free will.

It's the same dilemma in robotics and AI development. If you want something to carry out orders, then you program in those orders. Giving the creation free will and critical thinking is inefficient and absurd unless the goal is instead to create a well-rounded person who can make decisions and form beliefs independent of their creator's will, even if those decisions and beliefs are incorrect.

>> No.53239694

>>53239616
Two reasons.
1. They can't actually do magic, obviously; they're just pretending.
2. Because in context, someone who practiced magic did a lot of shady shit, like human sacrifices, dealing with demons, and decieving people. That was the kind of stuff that the law had a problem with: not the fact that you were using supernatural powers

>> No.53239701

>>53226135
He's already dead.

>> No.53239720

>>53239649
>If you're not Jewish, there are only 7 things that you have to do to be considered righteous in God's eyes: the 7 Noahide Laws
>God judges you on whether you're a good person or not.

Which is it. Are these the metric for which God judges righteousness, and actual laws to be obeyed? Or are they suggestions and guidelines with no bearing on God's decisions making?

You can not have it both ways.

>> No.53239721

>>53239221
>You are refering to circumcision. The mutilation I am talking about is much, MUCH worse that circumcision. THey would poke mens' eyes out with a hot knife to gain Ba'al's favor.
>it's OK, I only ask you cut off a small part of your kids, not large parts

Are you even hearing yourself twist and weasel your way past the logic pitfalls here? You say that the idolatry was never the point, but instead it was a law to stop mutilation and child murder.

If God thought mutilation and child murder was bad, why not just decree it?

I mean, he put in 421 laws for Jews, why not put in " no mutilation and child killing" to make it clear for everyone else? >>53239392

The Bible is not well written as an instruction guide, and it's not well written as a story.

>> No.53239726
File: 223 KB, 598x631, mr_rogers_thumb[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
53239726

>>53225456
Mr Rogers.

>> No.53239756

>>53239694
So supernatural powers aren't inherently wrong?
>>53239660
>Tfw communism can do a better job of keeping magic at bay then god-fearing people

>> No.53239770

>>53239616
Short answer: Catholicism

Slightly longer answer: Catholicism is the basis for a lot of Christianity, even Protestantism is heavily influenced by Catholic philosophy.

And in the eyes of Catholics, witches aren't real. Magic isn't real. People attempting to practice magic are at bets larpers and worst heathens, and you should deal with those problems accordingly.

>> No.53239776

>>53230951
What is scary-hungry? Bottom left.

>> No.53239777

>>53239589
Sure, he could make fire that doesn't give off light, but the language still reads to me as somewhat metaphorical regarding physical details. For example, it says that they will be "thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth," but it also says they will be, "thrown into the lake of fire." Again, being thrown outside into outer darkness doesn't really seem to match up to being thrown into a lake of fire.

It's not like the Bible is devoid of metaphorical language in general, either. Jesus tells a number of parables, which are explicitly metaphorical.

>> No.53239829

>>53239770
The Inquisition severely shitted all over everything, didn't they?

>> No.53239830

>>53239777
Yet the exact phrasing of hell in a lot of parables remains strikingly similar. Weeping, gnashing of teeth, outer darkness, fire.

Again, you posit a lake of fire as being contrary to outer darkness. However, we are dealing with supernatural place designed to maximize suffering. Fire but also darkness is not an unthinkable prospect. A lake of fire that is also darkness is, likewise, not an unthinkable prospect.

>> No.53239831

>>53239444
>Circumcision reduces infant and childhood infections and problems relating to cleaning under the foreskin.
>I'm literally God, the all powerful
>I will tell my chosen people to cut bits off children's dicks so they will die less
>they die because I created disease and pain so that they would die due to it
>I didn't bother making them just not grow foreskin in the first place so they wouldn't have to cut it off

Sure thing, Bro. God doesn't like mutilation, and the Bible isn't just made up by religious nutters in the desert who says what God wants is coincidentally useful rules to survive in a desert and as a murderous society in pre-industrial times.

And since God is real, let's keep cutting off dick ends.

>> No.53239844

Samefag as >>53239777 and a number of others, but I have to bow out because all this typing is bad for my tendonitis, so I won't be able to respond anymore. Sorry to leave this discussion unfinished!

>> No.53239871

>>53239844
Aw , nuts, was about to lay into you.

Have a good day and I hope your tendinitis isn't too bad!

>> No.53239911

>>53230546
I believe you meant to write
>you're aware I have always hated him right?

>> No.53239917

>>53233227
To be fair any book written by that many different people will be inconsistent.

>> No.53239932

>>53230695
The Emperor had no morals at all asides from "fuck aliens and interdimensional mind ghosts".

>> No.53239940

>>53239829
>Just because magic isn't real doesn't mean you can't do shitty things for Magic's sake

>> No.53239944

>>53239829
The inquisition actually explicitly didn't deal in witch hunting.

What the inquisition largely dealt in was heresy, apostasy and sin. Even the Spanish inquisition, the height of inquisitorial abuse, did not give a single fuck about witches. Because they had real things to deal with, like Jews who didn't want to convert. And recently converted Jews who were still secretly being Jews.

>> No.53239965

>>53237034
This is a /v/ermin Anon, /pol/fags aren't this stupid and angry.

>> No.53240010

>>53239940
>>53236574
Pic related?

>>53239944
They interrogated the fuck out of the Templars though.
Obviously that was a land grab but it's still horrifying.

>> No.53240017

>>53239944
Dat's ta thing though, roight?

Cause the Spanish Inquisition wun't astually bout huntin witches, no one would expect them when they strung up some broad by the neck.

>> No.53240097

>>53240010
He did mention inquisitorial abuse, my friend

>> No.53240176

>>53239444
>making an unnecessary wound on a child of 8 days which could fester, cause urological and sexual dysfunction is justified because dirty goatfuckers allegedly didn't have a way to bathe in the desert (yet somehow Muslims did), and because it allegedly protects from disease

Stop.

>> No.53240205

>>53240176
Muslims circumcise their young as well, idiot.

>> No.53240284

>>53240205
I'm talking about the fact that Muslims bathe regularly, or should, due to it being stated clearly in their holy book, you retarded fuck.
Also, refer to >>53239831

>> No.53240647

>>53239720
They're the same thing. If you're a good person, you don't murder or steal or rape or any of that other stuff. It's not rocket science.

>>53239756
Of course they're not. Nothing wrong with summoning fire to heat your tea, or what have you.

>> No.53240868

>implying goku, the direct opposite of kenshiro is well written

Not hating on goku or dragon ball, itsone of my favs but still

>> No.53240946

>>53240868
Goku is very moral, man, he just doesn't take shit very seriously until it gets to a certain point.

>> No.53241030

>>53240946
>Goku is very moral
>Started a deathmatch tournament that endangers trillions of people across the different universes because he was bored and had nothing better to do.

Yeah, sure.

>> No.53241042

>>53241030
He just reminded the supreme deity of his idea, he didn't come up with it.

>> No.53241185

>>53236574
I feel like people misrepresent that arguement. The idea I was raised with is it was gods laws that shaped our society for you to not have that desire. Not that religious people are only holding back because they fear hell

>> No.53241289

>>53241185

Perhaps, though it does seem to be fairly common for theists who are arguing for objective morality / morality only coming from a divine source to say shit like "If God hadn't told me not to rape/murder/steal, I'd be in jail right now!". There's no saying how honestly they believe that, ofc, but they do say it.

>> No.53241304

>>53241042
he also let a guy who killed half his friends go because "he was a worthy opponent"

Akagi is a saint compared to Goku

>> No.53241339

>>53241185
Here's the thing mate, if you say that the only reason why you don't engage in fucked up behavior is that God told you not to do so, it paints the picture that without religion, they'd do that fucked up behavior on the premise that beyond the consequences on earth, death is final.

A truly decent person doesn't do that shit because they don't want to harm others, not because they're afraid of getting dumped into a lake of fire for all eternity.

>> No.53241364

>>53241304
Maybe, but that was because Goku wanted to prove and did prove that he was better than Frieza, that he didn't have to kill him to win, Frieza had lost and couldn't deal with it and forced Goku to kill him. Also, Goku has a history of defeating somebody who wanted him dead only to befriend them, like Picollo, and Vegeta, Goku is an idealist, whereas Akagi seems to be a realist, and a pragmatist.

>> No.53241382

>>53241304
>he also let a guy who killed half his friends go because "he was a worthy opponent"
To play devil's advocate for a second, Yamcha died to a Saibaman and the rest died because of Nappa. In fact, Vegeta was to one to buy them enough time to where Goku could arrive in enough time to save Gohan, Krillin, and Yajirobe.

>> No.53241417

>>53237447
>Believing in "Sins of the Father"

We are responsible for our own works and sins and no one else.

>> No.53241431

>>53225456
Now there's a bait I haven't seen in a long, long time.

>> No.53241773

>>53241417
I agree, but it doesn't change what was said. Everyone sins.

>> No.53241985

>>53225456
>see OP from the catalog
Let's see what-

>>53226082
>>53230232
Oh, well then. Good Job.
I did not come here to post this specifically, but well done.

A quick glance at the rest of thread tells me it is just an argueanon chumming the waters for easy prey.
I'll be leaving then.

>> No.53242025

>>53241382

never forget that Toriyama himself fucking loathes the anime adaptation for plugging "hero" vibes into goku's personality which he personally described in interviews as toxic and evil in the original material.

then again, this is DBZ, not shit worth caring about or acknowledging as anything but dogshit, so....

>> No.53242331

>>53238893
>If the Eden wasn't real, then the fall of man wasn't real, and if the fall of man wasn't real, then what caused the corruption of creation?
I remember being taught that it was a metaphor, but the ACTUAL "fall of man" was closer to man, as thinking creatures, realizing the concepts of Good and Evil. Which, you know, involves thinking rather than eating any sort of fruit.

So the very act of granting someone Free Will could also be seen as a "fall", although I'm pretty sure that's not what mr. religion teacher said.

>> No.53242340

289 replies and 39 images omitted.

/tg/ I am disappoint.

>> No.53242392

>>53228736
I saw it last week.

>> No.53244717

>>53236795
Theologically, sure.

Literarily, no.

>> No.53244722

>>53241339
You literally ignored everything that anon said just so you could spew your hackneyed m'lady-tier rant.

>> No.53244775
File: 129 KB, 515x1295, IMG_0779.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
53244775

>>53225456
>That image

>> No.53244821

>>53244775
2slow

>> No.53244837

>>53225456

B8 still going.

Have a (you)

>> No.53244843

>>53244775

(You) can have a (You) too.

>> No.53244886

>>53230951
>hungry hungry hippos
teehee~

>> No.53244906

>>53239776
A monster in a Junji Ito manga, if you liked that single picture you should look him up.

>> No.53244977

>>53230951
So we did finish this, I didn't stick around to see

>> No.53244995
File: 188 KB, 1422x1152, nyan.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
53244995

>>53230951
>princess bubblegum
>delicious sexy

>> No.53246806

>>53244722
Mostly because everything he had to say was complete bullshit.

>> No.53247245

>>53246806
Why should I believe you? It seemed correct to me, and you haven't addressed it.

>> No.53247257

>>53226135
The text spells it out for you.

>> No.53247398

>>53244906
Look up what? Ito drew more than one manga.

>> No.53248524

>>53225456
not to out myself as a newfag, but Akagi test? Is it just the OP? Because I think the whole thing can just be summarised by the phrase "one dimensional"

>> No.53248666

>>53248524
Oh sweet summer child, let me explain: /tg/ is contrarian by nature. In an era of moral relativism, people would normally defend the moralfag. But the REAL contrarian thing, right now (and a natural counterpoint to our social justice-infested culture) is to make edgelords not built around modern definitions of 'good' but rather ancient, pre-modern forms of what is considered good/right, which naturally does not align with simplistic one-sided 'good' characters.

Back when everyone was making edgelord in trenchcoat with katana, /tg/ was sucking the dick off of moralfag characters.

>> No.53249010

>>53248666
>In an era of moral relativism
Such a thing exists only in the ravings of those who want, desperately, to be victims.

>> No.53250361
File: 18 KB, 100x235, 1494769740515.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
53250361

>>53238937
He loses a fucking eye, he's having heart problems, and he's getting old and it shows; you're an idiot who can't read.

>> No.53251433

>>53226106
Spongebob Squarepants.

>>
Name (leave empty)
Comment (leave empty)
Name
E-mail
Subject
Comment
Password [?]Password used for file deletion.
Captcha
Action