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[ERROR] No.52760603 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Pathfinder General /pfg/

How Good-looking are your Good characters? Not Good-looking as in attractive (but that helps too!), but as in people can tell that they're nice and benevolent and all.

Unified /pfg/ link repository: http://pastebin.com/hAfKSnWW

Current Playtests: https://pastebin.com/quSzkadj

Old Thread: >>52755487

>> No.52760626

>obvious breasts, barely clothed
vulgar

>> No.52760693

>>52760618
Currently, second level. I've got two maneuvers from Mithral Current, two from Scarlet Throne, one from Primal Fury and one from Riven Hourglass (Crushing Blow and Minute hand to play around with).
I'm using scarlet einhander stance, but I can pick a second one (stalker progression wew) that I've yet to settle on.

>> No.52760695

Is there a reason empryal angels are stronger than solar angels despite a 3 car differance?

>> No.52760724

>>52760695

Probably because Empyreal Angels are one eager worshiper away from becoming a God?

>> No.52760861

When did it happen, villains of /pfg/? What was the day you knew it was too late to turn back from the path of Evil?

>> No.52760867

Legendary Guardian's Punishment is far too strong. You can absorb damage (and non-damage debuffs with Cold Iron Call and Durable), and then offload them onto your enemies simply by whacking them and expending martial focus (which you can probably regain at a later point using some move action replenishment such as Focusing Formula).

If no enemy presents itself, you could even carry around a rat to offload damage and debuffs onto.

For reference:

>Punishment
>Prerequisites: Guardian sphere, base attack bonus +5
>When you deal damage to a creature while you have damage in your delayed damage pool, you may spend an immediate action to expend your martial focus and empty your delayed damage pool, dealing that damage to your target. If you possess the Cold Iron Call or Durable talents, you may also transfer any effects you are postponing with those abilities. If the effect allows a save, the target may make a save immediately at the original DC. If the creature saves successfully, the effect is not transferred.

It is all well and good that martials receive new toys to play with, but some of these legendary talents are outliers even by the standards of legendary talents of their level.

>> No.52760875

>>52760867

A
FUCKING
LEAF

>> No.52760879

>>52760867
So is the dog japanese or canadian?

>> No.52760882

What are some cool things you can do with a tumor familiar?

>> No.52760903

>>52760879
Indica

>> No.52760904

>>52760867
>Bag of rats in full effect

DESIGN: FAILED.

>> No.52760939

>>52760882
Someone said it last thread, be a Bloodrager w/ Aberrant Bloodline (or feat into it). Make the tumor familiar a protector. Keep it stuck inside your body. Whenever you take a hit, divert the damage to your tumor familiar. It has Fast Healing 5 and the feats that make it possible for it to take hits for you. Conglaturations you now have essentially 50% extra health on a d12 HD class

>> No.52760957

>>52760939
Bloodragers are d10

>> No.52761003

>There are people in this thread
>Right Now
>Who actually think Blingmaker isn't a bamboozle

>> No.52761051

>>52760939
I like this.

>> No.52761073

>>52761003
I actually isn't a bamboozle for crying out loud. I know the GM, they're serious about running the campaign.

>> No.52761086

So, the idea of playing wizards and stuff always appeal to me, yet when i play them, I always get this feeling that I am not doing things right no matter what and then it becomes not fun as a result. Stuff like not having the right spell for the situation or finding none of your spells is effective, or just a plain lack of creativity

Just what are some things or ideas I can follow to just be better at wizardry anyway?

>> No.52761095

>>52760957
I forgot, but you can do the same thing if you go Barbarian. d12 is only 1 more hp average over d10 anyways

>> No.52761099

>>52761003
Gonna be a whole bunch of salty bamboozlees this week.

>> No.52761102

>>52761073

Did they tell you who they're probably going to pick?

>> No.52761116

>>52761073
Are they excited? I'm excited!

>> No.52761166

Who would make a cuter couple with Casimir: Corwin, Seht or Sandru?

>> No.52761182

Anyone have any experience with any of the weird/bad alchemist archetypes? Gloom chymist, chirurgeon, sacrament, tinker, toxicant, eldritch poisoner, etc.?

>> No.52761185

>>52761166
Seht or Corwin--one of the younger bucks works better than another older guy.

>> No.52761213

>>52761166

But Casimir likes girls!

>> No.52761235

>>52761116
>are they excited

DMS are never excited anon, they're all dead inside. The best you can hope for is enthusiasm and/or dedication to the FUN IDEAL

>> No.52761236

>>52761102
>>52761116
No, they didn't tell me anything. Everything that I know is pretty much what everyone else knows if they keep up with the /pfg/ discord chat, which the GM uses.

The GM is excited about the campaign, and has been working on improving the campaign by changing up a few things that weren't good in the AP. People assume it's a bamboozle because of the picture and name but the GM is just a quirky person at heart.

You'll all have to wait till this weekend to see who's going to get picked. Best of luck to all of you.

>> No.52761237

>>52761213
Silly anon, shipping is not about what a player or character wants. It's about what we want.

>> No.52761255

>>52761237
List the best ships in currently running pf games right now. It doesn't have to make sense. It just has to give you a heart boner.

>> No.52761264

>>52760693
So first thing would be to decide on what to take at third and the second stance.

IMO, the big ones for 2nd level maneuvers are going to be the multihits (rising zenith strike, rapid strike or dual crash), as well as Iron Wave, and a solid counter, if you didn't grab flowing creek. Out of the multihits, dual crash is probably the worst for you, given that it needs some sheathe action stuff to fully proc, leaving us with zenith vs rapid. Zenith is a higher accuracy strike, given that it pulls off of sense motive, and not your lower bab, but it only crits once. Rapid Strike will activate brutal strikes more, which helps keep damage up, as well as working better with extra damage from stances. I'd favor Rapid Strike personally, but Zenith is good too, assuming your sense motive is maxed.

Iron wave is a really nice maneuver as it gives you a ranged option, extra damage, and potentially puts a vulnerability on the enemy for 1 round, which can combo brilliantly. I'd say it's even worth doing when you have to sheathe as a move action. Silver Wave (a 4th level maneuver) is also nice, though maybe redundant. If you have Veiled Moon (idk if you do), it has some nice teleport maneuvers that help mobility a lot.

Counters: Sanguine barrier and Calm the Wake are both really nice, and Stopwatch is potentially better for stopping full attacks, but it's a bit more difficult to use. Sanguine again will be more accurate because sense motive, but only stops one attack, whereas Calm the Wake can potentially stop all attacks from an enemy but needs a save to do that, and it's first block is an opposed attack roll. Remember that you get to swap out a maneuver at 4th and every even level after, so you should be able to pick up a multihit, a counter, and iron wave, (or any other utility maneuver) for your second level maneuvers.

Continued...

>> No.52761288

>>52761264


Going forward I'd also look at the Time Skitter boost (3rd level haste for initiator mod rounds as a boost), Temporal Body Adjustment (4th level condition cleanse counter), Silver Wave (4th level, iron wave's maybe redundant older brother). Also the multihits have triple attack versions as 5th level maneuvers so think about those, and maybe some of the area maneuvers, like whirlpool strike. Veiled Moon has a third level boost that gives incorporeability for one round, which lets you walk through walls and stuff.

Stances: Einhander is a bit of an odd choice given the str monster your going to be; the 1.5 str damage is really good. Reaching Blade Stance gives similar xd6 and reach on the first attack. Primal fury has a scent stance which can be nice utility. It's 3rd level stance is also pretty good damage, though maybe you'd want the defense of riven's 3rd level stance (or veiled, if you have that discipline). Veiled also has a teleport as movement as it's 5th level stance, which is great.

A word on stalker arts and bushido: Stalker arts are your most precious resource, do not waste them. Good ones to pick up would be the Honor Bushido, and either Brutal Assault (if you full attack a lot) or Brutal Ambush (if you hit flat-footed a lot). Ki Vampirism when you get to 11th is also really fucking good. Outside of Power Attack and Furious Focus, your feats should really be going to extra stalker arts. And since you get a bonus feat at 2nd, I 100% recommend taking power attack if that wasn't given through tax rules.

Hope that helps with picking stuff out, man. And 6th level is a really big jump to your action economy, by the way. But you'll still choke on swifts so there's that.

>> No.52761289

>>52761255
>It doesn't have to make sense. It just has to give you a heart boner.

Gloriana x Cashmere

>> No.52761306

>>52760603
Subtle evil is subtle, and evil.

>> No.52761314

>>52760603
Oh look, I guess the ban is over.

>> No.52761315

>>52761236
>The GM is excited about the campaign

Awesome! Now I'm even more excited.

>> No.52761330

>Have to wait until Thursday for the chance at more LOGS
>Vult's been posting manticore girls non-stop
Who is it? Who's going to get mounted and turned into a monster-girl!? I need to know!

>> No.52761332

>>52760695
Mythic power. It makes a significant difference.

>> No.52761339

>>52761236

When I got a review from Wubu they were very nice and helpful, it made my heart swell!

Wubu a cute!! A CUTE!!

>> No.52761343

>>52761330
Nobody, the party is too high optimization and were DIAMOND DOGS all along

>> No.52761344

>>52760603
I tend to go for extremes--either they take pride in looking like they're agents of Good, or I go to my other favorite trope and have heroes who look like they'd be villains otherwise. Big spikes, black armor, red-and-black clothing, the works.

>> No.52761345

>>52761255
I really like the idea of Aranha and Corwin hooking up as FWB initially after everybody else couples off and having it turn into something more.

>> No.52761348

>>52761289
>>52761255

Gloriana x Sigmund while Cashmere watches and learns

>> No.52761405

>>52761289
>>52761255
>don't have to make sense
>Just give you a heart boner

Bon-Bon/Sakaru gib pls and give the clown a cock too

>> No.52761407

>>52761343
That just means they need more encounters to be defeated!

>> No.52761409

>>52761255
Val x Sandru. It hits a lot of similar notes as Valimir, but has a bit of extra spice because of Val's animosity toward Sandru's brother.

>> No.52761418

>>52761330
>Who is it? Who's going to get mounted and turned into a monster-girl!? I need to know!

Lysander

>> No.52761439

>>52761343
>Paladin with Toughness
>high optimization

I'm laffin' m8

>> No.52761442

>>52761255
>It doesn't have to make sense. It just has to give you a heart boner.
Ameiko x Valeria while all the boys watch through the window.

>> No.52761444

When are you guys gonna tell me about your favorite characters?

>> No.52761451

>>52761439
Its a joke m8

>> No.52761471

>>52761255

I want to see Casimir stay old and single, him hooking up with any of the other party members seems weird.

While we're on the topic of SotJR, Corwin x Aranha is adorable, Valeriya x Sandru is growing on me, and Seht x Shayliss working through their troubles to be a Real Couple is kind of sweet!

Onryou x Aldern to complete the set.

>> No.52761472

>>52761339
I had the exact same feeling, Anon! Is this love? Is the love between a DM and a prospective player forbidden?

>> No.52761481

>>52761086
Trying to follow /tg/'s 'why wizards are powerful ' DOESN'T FUCKING WORK.

It never has. Potential breakage=/=actual effectiveness in combat outside of white room theorycrafting. They tell you "wizards are OP" but they can never plan adequately for every situation no matter what. Sure, you can be helpful, but in all truth, trying to win at PF with a wizard is actually a futile exercise in meme-level stupidity because no matter what, you will have failed to manage it. Even if you can amnage it, it requires makign every single player aside from yourself wait for your caster t\o cast a dozen divinations, meticulously plan everythign, and then not have shit go sideways when shit goes down (FYI, shit always goes sideways).

Casters can potentially break games. In actual practice, not so much.

>> No.52761500

>>52761255
>It doesn't have to make sense.
Sigmund X Valeriya

>> No.52761505

>>52761481

Any sensible DM just bans divination/foresight anyway

>> No.52761511

>>52761444
I'm not sure who's my favorite, Anon! It's a hard question; that's why I didn't answer before. I'm sorry for disappointing you.

>> No.52761512

>>52761472
>>52761339

Friendly reminder that the nature of Kingmaker and the lack of actual NPCs for the campaign means Wubu would have to craft and play custom NPCs designed to marry and smooch your PC!

>> No.52761513

How do you build him?

>> No.52761529

>>52761513

Bard with that Int-to-Dip trait.

>> No.52761534

>>52761511
Just tell me about all of them.

>> No.52761539

>>52761513
You can't actually use every stat as a dump stat anon.

>> No.52761547

>>52761481
>but they can never plan adequately for every situation no matter what.
What bout Arcanists, who can literally do exactly that?

>> No.52761561

>>52761442

Why not throw Shalelu into that pile?

>> No.52761562

>>52761513
If that is whiteknighting on the internet, what is being an internet black knight?

>> No.52761568

Thinking about making a summoning-focused wizard, but it would be my first time seriously focusing on using summons ever

What are some of the tips you can offer, anons?

>> No.52761578

>>52761512
If he's got the money, he gets the honey

>> No.52761579

>>52761568
Don't. Summoning fucks the entire game up and makes slow combat even fucking slower

>> No.52761580

>>52761562
>what is being an internet black knight?

/r9k/ and /pol/

>> No.52761598

>>52761512
Oh. I thought he was going to have the players marry and smooch each other.

>> No.52761608

>>52761481
Hey look, someone who doesn't know what they're talking about.

>> No.52761619

>>52761598
Which app would your app marry and smooch?

>> No.52761631

>>52761598

He's going for five players, that is literally impossible unless one girl takes two husbands or one man takes two wives.

Besides, what if the characters don't mesh well? Is he just going to make characters fall on dicks or trip into female PCs until something sticks?

>> No.52761634

>>52761608
Hey look, someone who hasn't actually played with other people in their life.

If you had, you'd know why it doesn't work.

>> No.52761637

>>52761255
>ctrl+f
>no yaoi from FotJR

I'm disappointed

>> No.52761645

>>52761619
Yours.

>> No.52761654

>>52761634
I have and that's why I know you're so full of shit it's leaking from your ears. I know for a fact there are other posters here who've seen casters fuck everything up, too.

>> No.52761657

>>52761534
No, that's silly. I'll narrow it down, but what do you want to know?

>> No.52761659

>>52761608

He seems to know more about what he's talking about than anyone else in this argument.

Wizards seem powerful because they can do anything, but they can't because the person controlling them is inherently limited by the confines of their fleshy, probably defective brain.

>> No.52761668

>>52761255
Either Rubio or Etan and Kelda

>> No.52761669

>>52761332
>>52760724
Sorry, not empyreal lords. I mean the cr 20 angel from bestiary 5 who's stronger stat wise than the cr 23 from the first.

>> No.52761674

>>52761631
>implying there won't be a forever alone perma virgin.
>implying the ones who mesh will get together on their own and the ones who don't will get waifus and husbandus thrown at them until something sticks.

>> No.52761683

>>52761631
Political marriage. It doesn't have to involve sex.

>>52761598
Or they could just have harems. They are running a country, after all, concubinage is their right.

>> No.52761685

>>52761631
>unless one girl takes two husbands

Does she get half of two incomes if she takes two husbands?

>> No.52761688

>>52761659
Someone's who bad at playing a Wizard isn't proof that Wizard isn't broken.

>> No.52761694

>>52761668

I really, really want to see the starry-eyed Etan paired up with Kelda.

>>52761674

Oh my god, what if Wubu throws that one NPC into the campaign.

The one designed to literally cuck and kill the party's waifus.

>> No.52761697

>>52761657
Everything.

>> No.52761707

>tfw you really need to finish your character, but instead keep getting into arguments with people on the internet over Dark Souls Lore

So tell me anons, how do you get in the mood to make characters and stay focused

>> No.52761719

>>52761694
Is that someone from Kingmaker?
Or just one from /pfg/ theorycrafting?

>> No.52761723

>>52761512
I bet he'll design some really handsome ones with a lot of money.

>> No.52761726

>>52761707
I drink heavily and then once i've gotten juuust drunk enough i start writing and let it flow

>> No.52761729

>>52761631
>final Blingmaker party one girl three guys, a final hour quad-app of polyamorous lovers seeking to create a nation where their form of love can legally recognized

>> No.52761739

>>52761669
Stats aren't the true measure of power, anon - the higher stats still only gives the empyrean a CR 20 because their defenses, attacks, spells and powers are still sub-par in comparison to the Solar Angel.

>> No.52761742

>>52761645
B-but Anon, what if they're not romantically compatible? What if it's a loveless marriage?!

>> No.52761746

>>52761707
Make a cute firekeeper who keeps the fire alive inside her chest and needs to find a place to nurture it.

>> No.52761747

>>52761729
I'd watch it.

>> No.52761760

>>52761674

>perma virgin

How do we assign a value to virginity, is it even possible?

I mean, we're playing characters who gain tangible powers from wealth, right? Wouldn't this mean being a virgin in a political environment where that has value... Will give it value?

Furthermore, do you get the value of a person when you marry them, as in you look up, say, Kyras's value from that Thrall chart from the LotLK campaign book, and say, "I get that much because that man is mine."

>> No.52761773

>>52761707
Literally just silence your discord and any communication apps, close pfg thread and sit down for a bit in total solitude and think about what you want to do. That's what I always do.

>> No.52761775

>>52761760
30 pieces of silver

>> No.52761782

>>52761707

Drink, drink, drink.

And when you've drunk enough to drown a mule, you turn on some inspirational music and start figuring out characters you want to play.

>>52761723

I-Is it wrong if I actually want to hold off on boning or getting serious with a character just to see what Wubu whips up?

>>52761719

Kelda Oxgutter is a character from Book 1 of Jade Regent.

>> No.52761785

>>52761739
Sorry I think I was being unclear again. The empyral has higher health, better saves except for fortitude, better attack bonuses I think. I'd have to check out feats and skills more I think.
I guess it could just be solar came out early and empyrals are updates to keep up with creep thanks to more options.

>> No.52761789

>>52761719
Sorta from Kingmaker, Paizo released a book at some point that included a "bonus" NPC that could be added to each of the APs they published at that point. Kingmaker had some android from Numeria that just travels around seducing people and convincing them to do increasingly evil things until he can murder them in the middle of their alignment turning to evil, or something

>> No.52761792

>>52761608
As someone who plays constantly with his IRL friends, I can tell you he does. My group has played a handful of wizards throughout our games as of late, and all of them are middlingly powerful at best and that's even with most of us being a bunch of monstrous powergamers.

Wizards who want to have meaningful input on the battlefield have to specialize, and specialize HARD, or else all they're doing is being a drag on the rest of the party, and a lot of the mindboggling combos that people come up with either rely on spending ungodly amounts of money on Rods that only boost 3 of your spells per day, or rely on enemies failing saves that before, like, level 13-14 are rarely, if ever, going to go above the low to mid 20's. Meanwhile your party Paladin at level 11 is going to have +16-17 MINIMUM to all of his saves, so any spells or status sent his way is going to almost inevitably fail unless he rolls significantly below 10.

>> No.52761797

>>52761775
Oh and you can't divorce her

>> No.52761817

>>52761773

>Keeping Discord on

>>52761789

The Numerian is a Euphoric Jedi from Rahadoum and used for Iron Gods.

The one everyone's thinking of is a lanky, handsome Elven asshole designed specifically to fuck your waifu in the ass and make her scream for it, and the moment you try to attack him he can disappear safely.

>> No.52761818

>>52761792
And you've not once considered that maybe the guy just isn't all that good?

>> No.52761824

>>52761782
No, no, I didn't mean Kelda. I meant the cuck-and-kill machine

>> No.52761842

>>52761688
You clearly didn't read the statement of potential brokenness not being effectively broken. Wizards are potentially broken. they even seem broken in the white room theorycraftign /tg/ loves to demonstrate their proofs with.

In actual play, the player can never pull off half of what /tg/ claims is possible for a variety of reasons, including but not limited to:
GM fiat

other players doing things

changing scenarios not planned for

divinations being inaccurate because the part did things differently than the wizard planned for

actually using wealth by level to buy spells and make magic items

not understanding that low and mid level spells always fail agaisnt high level enemies

the situations of the campaign changing in the time it takes to set up all the spells he needs to cast to control everything to what he wants

And there is a host of other real time, in game situations that a player can't actually plan for because things change in a game that don't change in /tg/'s infamous theorycrafted quantum wizardry.

/tg/ can say wizards break the game all they want but in practice it's a fuckton of work and time consuming shenanigans that would more likely get the other players to kick autism wizard's ass out of the game for holding it up and spotlight stealing.

>> No.52761852

Is Starfinder up anywhere?

>> No.52761858

>>52761852
It literally doesn't exist do some basic research you pussy

>> No.52761860

>>52761792
Oh, and you're not going to have access to the entire wizarding spell list, because in IRL games you're going to rarely come across other wizards that you can crib your answers from, and focusing on Divination is much more handy for out of combat stuff when you can roll Knowledge checks on enemies as a free action to learn about their stats. Then people will wonder what you're doing when you have to sit back and cast Ray of Frost at level 12 because you specialized into Divination and had to choose most of your spells from there.

>>52761818
Actually provide a counter argument bro, I laid out stats and all of us took a good hard look at how casters worked and all came to the same conclusion.

>> No.52761864

>>52761255
/pfg/ this is IMPORTANT! Who are we shipping DHB's characters with.

In one game he's in an all male party so it doesn't work out, but in the other Essa has a chance! DHB has gone on record saying he thinks skinship and romantic relations are important for character development. Who do we ship Essa with?

>> No.52761866

>>52761824

He's a character from the #100 AP, Song of Silver. Cuck-and-Kill is a handsome fae-ish guy who is LITERALLY DESIGNED to be able to easily escape from the PCs the moment they try to attack him.

This would just make him annoying if it weren't for the fact his design is also built around Charisma, and seducing your waifu (literally, your character's lover) into fucking him, falling in love with him, and eventually trying to kill your character in his sleep.

>> No.52761873

>>52761860
This.
Played what would, in theory, have been a broken-ass Rainbow Servant back in 3.5.

I ended up crashing on another PC's couch for the whole campaign and barely making ends' meet because I was spending all my money buying and copying scrolls.

>> No.52761874

>>52761852
You mean Starjammer?

>> No.52761911

>>52761866
So Wubu would have to
>Drag an NPC out of the worst AP
>Slap Mr. Fuck You Player Agency down into a campaign designed around player agency
>Blatantly shoehorn him into a campaign where he doesn't belong
>Go out of his way to fuck up a PC's intended arc
>Possibly kill a PC or at the very least severely damage what was giving them passion for pursuing the campaign
>All just for a bad joke

This runs on the same logic that decided the campaign was a bamboozle. Just because it could happen doesn't mean it will, and the fact that it'd torpedo his reputation means it isn't going to. Not everyone is as desperate for attention as Rory.

>> No.52761945

>>52761911

Anon... He does belong.

This character is designed for Kingmaker, AP #100 included one new NPC for every AP, and the new NPC for Kingmaker was this character.

>> No.52761969

Okay, I'm about to put on my tinfoil hat, so here's a wild theory based on the current crop of applications:
>Overlewd GM picks all girls
>Inserts a male GMPC
>This GMPC probably only has levels in either Aristocrat or some support-related buffing/healing class
>One of the major campaign goals becomes "groom this wimp into a badass to lead your armies"
>GM makes game into a harem animu with a shota prize

>> No.52761995

>>52761969
>Olivia
>not into /ss/
He could have been like a father to me.

>> No.52761996

>>52761945
Wait, what the fuck?
I mean, it doesn't surprise me that Paizo would do that, but is every new NPC in the book as bad as that?

>> No.52762008

>>52761969
>picks all girls
>over half the female apps are succubus
>what started as "groom this wimp" turns rabidly into "Let's take turns raping this wimp"
>Game breaks down cause Succubutts are too busy raping the shota to get anything done.

>> No.52762018

>>52761866
I remember my character encountering this guy and me killing him because my character was massive paranoid and he set off a lot of alarms in my head. My GM actually seemed really disappointed he didn't get to cuck someone. Heck, I didn't even have a lover my character was married to the Law.

>> No.52762054

>>52761860

You don't get the whole list, yeah, but in longer campaigns you're certainly going to be able to pick up a lot of spells, enough that what exactly your character DOES changes on a daily basis as is convenient for the player.

I get stuck as PermaDM for my group because the only other person who runs games has no attention span as a GM and tends to get bored and scrap the idea about three sessions in. So my experience on the player side has been a touch limited, but GMing over and over again has made me come to despise the arcanist and the wizard.

Pirate campaigns? The brawler, investigator, and barbarian are discussing the ideas of boarding the ghost ship pursuing them to fight its undead crew. Arcanist casts a couple spells and sinks the fucking boat by themselves.

And this shit happens all the fucking time if nobody else plays a full-caster. The wizard or arcanist always has something up their sleeve, is rarely in as much danger as the other PCs, and ultimately I need to decide between either being as spiteful as possible towards the wizard's player for being good at that particular class or letting them breeze through everything because the wizard spell list is a goddamn app store for solving problems.

I've found magic-users a lot more bearable since switching over to Spheres.

>> No.52762079

>>52762054
I have been GMing for years and have never had this problem.

I can only say that GMs who experience this are totes garbo.

>> No.52762081

>>52761996
>but is every new NPC in the book as bad as that?

There's some actual gems in it, such as a very flamboyant and colorful girl Tengu in Skulls and Shackles and a pyromaniac bomber Goblin for RotRL.

>> No.52762101

>>52762081
And on the other hand, the fossegrim and futa tiefling.

>> No.52762104

>>52762079

I've never seen a martial death-windmill that can't be managed with like five minutes of planning, but I don't knock the GMs that bitch about that.

>> No.52762114

>>52761842
>GM fiat
>not understanding that low and mid level spells always fail agaisnt high level enemies
And that's all I needed to see to know that you belong on the short bus.

>> No.52762136

>>52762101

Futa Tiefling wasn't actually that bad, she's a weirdo and described as a liability on more than one occasion, especially for Arueshalae's rise to good because the Tiefling's a real brown-noser.

Want to see bad? Let's talk about the half-bodied Android that hates the gods and will kill Casandalee if given the chance.

>> No.52762146

>>52761697
I'll try to remember:
>Illona Bryn Avoca, a 17 year old girl with blue eyes, shoulder-length blonde hair, and tan skin
>Personality: Fatalistic, Disciplined, Religious
>Alignment: Lawful Good
>Vice: Lust
>Virtue: Humility
>Cute girl joins palatinate order of the Ruby Lady in her pre-teens. She excels at her studies and exercises. As the years pass, she receives all sorts of specialized training, though her favorite lessons are those concerning spellcraft, in no small part because she and her instructor Katya carry on a passionate affair in secret. Unfortunately, a jealous rival for Katya's affections murders the woman with the aid of a vile succubus.
>In time, Illona blossoms into the holy warrior she was born to be, and dedicates her life to the defense of the innocent and the destruction of those who would abuse magic and violate the sanctity of the dead's repose. A turbulent world of orcish invasions, deceptive necromancers, and demonic incursions puts her vigilance to the test, and she is not found wanting.
>The heinous murder of one of the Council of Archmagi's members puts the Quest in motion, and she is swept away with a motley band of mercenaries, mages, and miscreants to pursue the perpetrator across the Planes. Over the course of their adventures, she develops feelings for her necromancer companion, though she fails to act upon these, and in the presence of overwhelming Chaotic energies in the eleventh hour, succumbs to the perversion of these desires, losing her mind and setting herself upon the party, slaying the object of her affections before being laid low.

>> No.52762177

>>52761969
I want the kasatha to hug me.

>> No.52762183

>adult men who roleplay as little girls

>> No.52762190

>>52761817
>designed specifically to fuck your waifu in the ass and make her scream for it

What's his build? I need to scavenge and repurpose it for an app, clearly.

>> No.52762194

>>52762136
>>52762101
Let's see...
>Don't know who Jason Nelson is, but I'm going to have to go over his other work and make sure I know what I'm getting into before I run it
>Unsurprisingly, the amazing android atheist is made by Crystal Frasier
>Richard Pett, Rob McCreary, you're cool, keep up the good work.

>> No.52762198

>>52761792
Level 11 wizard. 17 Int on 15 PB, with 8 str, 12 dex and con for good measure. Int 19 with racial, 21 with two levelups, 25 with a circlet. Bonus is +8.

On level 5 spells your DC is 23 before anything else. 24 on the level 6 which a level 11 does have access to.

You're measuring those saves in PVP against literally the most save-happy class in the game which is an error.

(CR12 median saves are 14 Fort, 10 Reflex, 10 Will). With virtually no effort you should be getting a 60% or better success rate. Nothing upping your DCs yet, just a straight cast. Arguably you could do better already just by targeting the weaker save.

From there there's little to no reason not to have at least spell focus (another +1 to the DCs), and both traits and races should afford you another one.

The other big thing about wizards is that those divinations aren't things you use the day you go into the dungeon. Simple auguries help you get your bases covered: they don't tell you "do this", the player still needs a bit of intellect. You do them a few days beforehand. "Hey, there will be cold beasts". "Undead abound". And so on and so forth.This may seem like nothing on paper, but in practice if you make use of simple information like this, you're not caught with your pants down as often.

Teleport. Disintegrate. And many others. These spells if used intelligently will completely bypass problems. How many random encounters are avoided if you could just put a hole through that adamantine hallway? If you could teleport six hundred miles - even if it leaves you a couple off? What's an hours walk to six days of travel? What did you bypass and avoid in doing that?

You're loading up like a blaster or ignoring more general purpose spells, and assuming that a lot of the downtime ones are thing to use in mid-dungeon. But they're not. A wizard certainly can't do everything at once, and not even in the same day. But they can do a lot. More different things than others. And they CAN prepare

>> No.52762201

>>52762136
I don't really see what's so bad about the android honestly.

>> No.52762205

>played the game for years
>seen lots of wizards
>played lots of wizards
Only people who I've met who can actually play a wizard to the point of breaking most campaigns are myself and one of my meat space players. I've seen /pfg/ players try and fail miserably.

There are numerous factors that go into whether a wizard can actually bust a game and in many campaigns lots of these factors are cut off due to limited time, funds, spell slots, etc. Plus 95% of all players I've ever met can't choose spell lists or prepare their spells for shit and fucking flounder the second they wake up. As a GM I make my players write down what they shove in those slots. Most players fucking panic at having to choose. Most players fucking choose garbage half the time and get fucked for it.

Honestly? Most of the time I see GMs get fucked by a wizard it's because the GM bends over and spread it saying "oh mr.wizard please don't violate my campaign, what ever would I do!".

Is it really so hard to ban like 4 spells? Is it really so hard to make encounters that aren't solved by a single spell slots. The number of fucking times I've seen GMs panic when they set up a mystery and remember speak with dead exists is TOO FUCKING MANY. I mean JESUS CHRIST it's not that hard to get around and anyone who knows about magic would have planned for it.

>> No.52762223

>>52762198
>You're measuring those saves in PVP against literally the most save-happy class in the game which is an error.
Incorrect, a human barbarian is gonna have better saves against it.

>> No.52762240

Here is a special Spheres of Might build. It shows what a 1st-level troubadour can do. Everything past the 1st-level package is merely gravy, though various talents can open up powerful new options.

Level: 1st
Race: Aasimar (angel-blooded, light attuned, truespeaker)
Class: Troubadour 1
Ability Scores (20 point buy): Strength 16+2, Dexterity 12, Constitution 12, Intelligence 12, Wisdom 7, Charisma 16+2
Key Traits: Ancestral Weapon (Regional), Irrepressible (Faith), Reactionary (Combat), drawback of choice

Feats:
• Aasimar Bonus: Extra Magic Talent
• 1st-level: Muscular Reflexes

Personae:
• Cunning Servant: Skill focus
• Fool: Bumbling guidance

Martial Tradition: Bushido Way
• Beastmastery (Unskilled drawback): Pet (initiative familiar)
• Dueling (Bloodless Combatant drawback, Clumsy Disarmer drawback, 2 free): Defensive Slice, Scar Tissue
• Equipment (no dedication): Bushido Tools

Magic Drawback: Prepared Caster
Spell Points: 1 level + 4 Charisma modifier + 1 drawback = 6

Magic Talents: 2 base + 1 Extra Magic Talent
• Fate (Neutrality drawback, 1 free): Bless
• Light (Touch of light drawback, 1 free): Encompassing Light, Glory

Key Equipment:
• Free (worth up to 500 gp): Masterwork cold iron and darkwood naginata
• 5 gp: Spiked gauntlet

Initiative:
1 Dexterity modifier
+2 trait from reactionary
+4 initiative familiar
Total: +7

Attack Bonus:
0 BAB
+4 Strength modifier
+1 enhancement
+1 trait from Ancestral Weapon
Total: +6

Regular Damage with Encompassing Light:
2d6 effectively Large naginata
+6 Strength modifier multiplied
Total: 2d6+6 damage (average 13)

Critical Damage:
8d6+24 regular damage quadrupled
+8 damage Bushido Tools
Total: 8d6+32 damage (average 60)

Outside of combat, this troubadour uses their Cunning Servant persona to skill monkey around. They have 6 base skill points and a generous skill list, the Cunning Servant grants another 2 skill points per level and Skill Focus, so the troubadour is quite capable out of combat.

>> No.52762243

>>52762205

>> No.52762253

>>52762240

When it is time to go on a dangerous adventure, they spend 10 minutes switching to their Fool persona. They enter combat with initiative +7 with the help of an initiative familiar.

On a regular hit, they deal middling damage. On a confirmed critical hit, they deal enough damage to detonate a CR 5 or 6.

Since they fight as a Fool with guided bumbling, any time they roll a natural 1, 2, or 10, they can treat that as a natural 20. In other words, they threaten on a 1, 2, 10, or 20, for a 20% critical threat chance.

However, they have numerous ways of rolling twice and taking the higher result: the Fool's built-in "roll an 18 or a 19, fumble that action, and then roll twice and take the higher result on all d20 rolls during the next round" is a good one. The once-per-day Fool surge also lets them roll twice and take either result, and so can their Bless magical talent, which they have 6 spell points a day for. If they roll twice and take higher, they have a 36% critical threat change.

They have Muscular Reflexes for Strength-based Combat Reflexes. Encompassing Light and Glory give them a natural reach of 10 feet; a naginata pushes that out to a whopping 20 feet, and while they have a blind spot 5 to 10 feet away, the troubadour can mitigate that slightly with a spiked gauntlet. In any case, threatening out to 20 feet means that few enemies will dare to tangle with the troubadour, especially when an attack of opportunity could result in an enemy being *obliterated* by a critical hit.

The troubadour also has a heavy armor proficiency, good Reflex and Will, the ability to expend martial focus for a natural 13 on a Fortitude or Reflex save, Defensive Slice (Cut from the Air + Smash from the Air), and scaling damage reduction X/bludgeoning. The character is very well-guarded.

This is a 1st-level character.

A naginata-wielding character themed after theatrical masquerades seems eerily familiar...

>> No.52762255

>>52762223
>Assuming Superstition

>> No.52762262

>>52762243
I'm not even baiting. /pfg/ can't optimize or play its way out of a paper bag and just parrots what ever it hears in this echo chamber.

>> No.52762274

>>52762255
Shit a human barbarian who doesn't take superstition is shooting himself in the foot.

>> No.52762279

>>52762262

>> No.52762282

>>52762240
>ancestral weapon

okay this is just cheating

>> No.52762300

>>52762279
sure buddy

>> No.52762303

>>52762104
That's because anyone who tries to make the argument that martial death windmills are OP here gets laughed out of the room.

>>52762198
Medians are great! For white board analysis and nothing else. Actual in-game encounters from a good (or even an enthusiastic but bad) GM will take into account the strengths and weaknesses of players and change things accordingly. Party wizard completely dominates humanoids with mind affects? Send a couple doombots after him. Party fighter kills your bosses in a single hit? Throw an incorporeal creature or something with crazy high AC so she's not hitting on a 10.

This is what I mean by actual interactions. CR is so unbelievably broken that your numbers are bound to be completely screwed in a real setting if you're running your calcs based off of the averages found within the entire game, because something that will (for instance) steamroll a team of melee combatants is probably not the same thing that will steamroll a bunch of squishy casters.

>> No.52762307

>>52762190

>> No.52762308

>>52762300

>> No.52762313

>>52762253

Wouldn't Defensive Slice include Smash from the Air's wording and have it as an associated feat if it was meant to include Smash from the Air's ability?

Like, there are some oversights in the sphere design but I'm pretty sure nothing in there indicates it's supposed to be two fairly powerful feats, one with a BAB prerequisite, for a single talent you can take at level 1 and right now the only evidence I'm seeing that it is meant to be read that way is your rather generous interpretation of it.

>> No.52762336

>making character
>already had a concept in mind
>start choosing Combat Spheres
>suddenly realize certain parts will either synergize together better, and that I'm dangerous close to spreading myself thin over multiple spheres
Balls. Now I'm in a pickle. I'm making a Bodyguard/Bouncer character who is super loyal to Ameiko for a JR game, but now I'm stuck.
I've already got Barroom and Guardian spheres from both my tradition and from being a sentinal, but the Tradition gives me Unarmed Training as a bonus talent, and I'm unsure how to go with this character. I've already got lots of Improvised Weapon stuff, and I'm going to put a lot into Guardian, so I'm unsure whether to go with my original plan of going Lancer, or to just cave in and make a Punchgirl instead, or maybe go with something else entirely.

Should I sacrifice the flavor and abandon Barroom instead? I would really not like to do so, even if it won't see much use past the first module.

Help me /pfg/, I'm lost and cannot find my way!

Also, anyone have some art of either dark-skin punchgirls or dark skinned warrior girls with polearms? I have a mighty need for them

>> No.52762337

>>52762205
This, plus actually reading what certain spells do by RAW or even RAI would solve like, half of the complaints about overpowered casters here.

>> No.52762347

>>52762274
Unless he wants to be like.

Healed ever. Or otherwise have helpful shit done to him midcombat.

>> No.52762357

>>52762347

A lot of groups prefer to buff up pre-combat and heal post-combat. It's usually a lot more efficient.

>> No.52762359

>>52762336

Punchgirl is a declining stock, sell sell sell.

Futures in Huge-Chested Casters are rising.

>> No.52762368

>>52762303
Yes, jacking up the enemy saves way in excess of what is actually supposed to be there is one way of stopping a Wizard. Well, a Wizard that's focusing on save or lose spells to the exclusion of spells that have effects even if they succeed on their saving throw, or buffs, or spells with no saves.

And the same level of hard countering is a thousand times worse if you use it against a martial, so your point is actually proving everyone else's point.

>> No.52762374 [SPOILER] 

>>52762359
>Futures in Huge-Chested Casters are rising.

I knew it!

>> No.52762384

>>52762282

The troubadour is an overloaded class from the very beginning, and it certainly does not help that the Fool opens itself up to flagrant critical-fishing builds.

>>52762313

Cut from the Air:
>When a ranged attack is made against you or a target adjacent to you, you can cut the weapon (or ammunition) out of the air, deflecting the attack so the target takes no damage. As an attack of opportunity, make a melee attack roll at your highest bonus. If the result is greater than the attack roll total of the ranged attack, the attack is deflected. You must be aware of the attack and not flat-footed. Unusually massive ranged weapons (such as boulders or ballista bolts) and ranged attacks generated by spell effects cannot be deflected.

Defensive Slice:
>When a ranged attack is made against you or a target within your reach, you can cut the weapon (or ammunition) out of the air, deflecting the attack so the target takes no damage. As an attack of opportunity, make a melee attack roll at your highest bonus. If the result is greater than the attack roll total of the ranged attack, the attack is deflected. You must be aware of the attack and not flat-footed.

Defensive Slice lacks the restriction stipulated in Cut from the Air; therefore, Defensive Slice lacks that limitation.

This is part of what makes the one-talent Dueling dip unreasonably strong.

>> No.52762387

>>52762368
Oh yeah, and it makes blasters cry themselves to sleep at night because now they're permanently doing half damage before resistances are even taken into account, so really, good job, you're showing yourself to be an amazing DM.

>> No.52762388

>>52762347
Moment of Clarity exists, most of the time buffs should be on before raging begins, healing should be after combat ends. Moment of Clarity is for when you need it during combat.

>> No.52762396

>>52762313
Defensive Slice lacks the wording from Cut from the Air that tells you what ranged attacks you can't parry. Smash from the Air is "those things we specifically excluded? You get them back now."

>> No.52762397

>>52762359
I want to build a strong portfolio of GUN and 4ARMS. What are the projections?

>> No.52762399

>>52762374

Good taste.

>> No.52762411

>>52762359
Well, she's Gestalt into spiritualist, so does that count? Though I do plan on having her chest being an actual realistic size, so I'm not sure if that will qualify as "huge-chested" Though she's going to be 6'2", so it might scale up

>>52762397
>4ARMS
Excellent taste

>> No.52762418

>>52762396

Huh. That seems like a fairly obvious oversight to fix. These are the same guys that made the Destruction Sphere, which needs to spend talents to get around "OH GOD NOT SMASH FROM THE AIR".

>> No.52762441

>>52762397

GUN is an incredibly unstable stock, it depends on the campaign more than anything.

4ARMS however is incredibly dangerous, proceed with caution.

>> No.52762466

>>52762374

Who does Branwen want handling her Branwens?

>> No.52762469

>>52762198
Yes, you make good points. and yet, in combat, your highest powered spells MUST be your offensive spells, because that 60% success rate drops 5% each spell level - not even considering monster types and immunities that may crop up (undead abound - great, don't load electricity, mind effecting spells, and cold spells - but wait, also a few golems and animated objects? Now you have to make very careful choices, and you hope you have spells that can deal with both at once - and then hope you don't run into an ooze or plant creature that you skipped in your divinations).

Next you have the ominpotence of teleport and disintigrate. You honestly think that making a hole doesn't mean other creatures can use it too? That teleporting you and your party members is foolproof? Yes, it gets you there quicker, but that 11th level caster used one of his highest level spell slots to do it - you know, the ones that you had a 60% success rate with? Oh, but you can wast 8 hours to memorize new spells, right and then another two to get to the dungeon? That's a half a day, which means your divinations are now less accurate than they were, because the dungeon doesn't exist in a vacuum of nothing happening while you're doing other shit. What's worse is when the enemy has spells that confuse your divinations - like false vision, a spell of equal level to divination. Or what if the local do-gooders cleared out all those undead, and left a half-empty warren behind? All those anti undead measures are now wasted resources and more wasted time. It's not even "quantum ogres", this stuff is actually detailed in some adventures (such as the Shcakles adventures, where a scheduled storm sweeps through, or where the undead get hungry and wander away from their normal location if the PCs waste a day on other things).

It is literally impossible for a wizard to prepare for every situation and any eventuality, meaning he ends up with a toolbox that will fail him at times.

>> No.52762471

>>52761236

Got a link to the /pfg/ discord for an anon who just recently downloaded Discord finally?

>> No.52762477

>>52762471
https://discord.gg/5MUj9

>> No.52762485

>about to go to bed when friend kicks juices flowing with potential chargen for a small game he's thinking about
>all I can think about is a shitty gimmick build, even though I have concept after concept
>mfw the shitposting has gotten to me and I am becoming what I hate

Sickly Agathian Aasimar boy devoted to Desna, whose secret vigilante identity is a dancing Desnan Priestess

>> No.52762494

>>52762469

Which is kind of why it pissed me off that the Arcanist got an exploit that lets him pluck something out of his book o' silver bullets in six fucking seconds instead of several minutes for a negligible cost.

It's like, that's one of the places prepared casters are supposed to get tripped up, what the fuck is the point of letting them nearly ignore that for a feat?

>> No.52762497

>>52762485
some gay shit there nigga

>> No.52762502

>>52762485
Link pls go.

>> No.52762504

>>52762485

Please don't, we might not hide our powerlevels here but you can hide your powerlevel with us.

>> No.52762516

>>52762368
Not really, because the enemy passing that save (which is almost always a "save negates" for the spells that actually mean something other than damage) means that spell slot is essentially wasted for the day unless you have more casts of it prepared, and even then that's an entire turn for them to look at you trying to magick them and charge at you in order to turn your face into mush.

Plus a doombot, for instance, is completely immune to mind-affects, so if that's what your wizard has specialized in then they'd better have a backup plan in place. Boom! No jacking up of saves required, and depending on the campaign you're running it may even be easy to implement into the story.

>> No.52762525

>>52762336
>using SoM

Enjoy your dumpster fire.

>> No.52762543

Why is the chirurgeon alchemist archetype so bad?

Why do clerics get to outclass the entire build with a single spell?

I just want to play an alchemist healer. This is bullshit.

>> No.52762548

>Some absolute madman actually put an f-list in their Overlewd profile

christ.

>> No.52762550

>>52762466
INQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW

>> No.52762553

>>52762303
>>52762368
>something that will (for instance) steamroll a team of melee combatants is probably not the same thing that will steamroll a bunch of squishy casters.
In the back of the mosnter books are a set of tables called "Monster Roles". these are mosnter designatiosn for what mosnter to put up against what types of party members are present. The ones that do best agaisnt wizards aren't always the Spellcasters - the Skill monsters are actually more dangerous, because they are stealthy, intelligent, use tactics, and often have poisons or abilities which inhibit spellcasting.

Choosing your monsters with this information can make the encounters much more interesting and possibly more suitable for the type of party your monsters are meant to fight.

>> No.52762558

>>52762477

Sweet. Thanks.

>> No.52762560

>>52762543
Healing is shit in pathfinder anyways

>> No.52762561

>>52762543
Nigga the Infusion Discovery invalidates Chirurgeon

>> No.52762563

>>52762307
>Irresistibly charming
>No ranks in diplomacy

>> No.52762566

>>52762543
>Why is the chirurgeon alchemist archetype so bad?

Because nobody's allowed to heal unless it's MAGICAL!

>> No.52762577

>>52762525
oh-ehm-gee teh sikkest a smrtst comment
how do upboat xD

>> No.52762584

>>52762494
Considering their much lower number of spells castable, that can be a detriment as well - also Arcanists are fucked by the fact that they are split stat casters, unlike all other full casters, needing high int and high cha to be effective.

Also, disallowing that feat is possible.

>> No.52762590

>>52762560
>>52762561
>>52762566
IT'S BULLSHIT!

>> No.52762604

>>52762584

Having seen the Arcanist in play, it doesn't tend to actually run out of spells past sixth level that often unless the player is showing off more than they need to, and you can get by with fairly mediocre CHA. Only one or two exploits actually need it to be that high.

The quick prep thing is an exploit, which I did end up banning mostly because it defeats the fucking point of being a prepared caster.

>> No.52762612

>>52762543
How about a triple-archetyped chirurgeon/wasteland blightbreaker/sacrament alchemist?

>> No.52762613

>>52762590
Nobody cares.

>> No.52762651

>>52762497
>>52762504
On one hand my friends are also a couple of degenerate faggots of similar caliber to you guys, and having a reason to not just slap exposed on Vigilante immediately would be fun. On the other, what the fuck brain. This is not what I meant when I said I wanted to branch out from just being another "boring 20-something dude" again.

>> No.52762660

>>52762563

He's got Versatile Performance (Strings) so it's +22

>> No.52762665

>>52762307
>>52762563
>Entire build relies on him being around water to avoid getting his shit kicked in
>Has to try and get other people to fight for him

>> No.52762670

>>52762584
>>52762604
>arcanist
>needing cha
Cha is a pointless stat for Arcanists. The only thing that uses it are some of the direct damage exploits, which aren't particularly good anyway.

Also, unlike both the Sorcerer and Wizard, Arcanists are STILL spontaneous prepared casters even without the Quick Study exploit. They're STILL better casters than both the Wizard and Sorcerer just from the base design of the class.

>> No.52762672

>>52762612
I mean I'm pretty sure a cleric would still be better in every conceivable way.

To be fair though I haven't read sacrament alchemist at all so maybe I'm wrong. What does it do?

>> No.52762680

>>52762665

Now you see why people think that guy's a bitch and bullshit.

>> No.52762734

>>52762672
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/archetypes/paizo-alchemist-archetypes/sacrament-alchemist/
It's... odd. Basically it lets the Alchemist get a mutagen-based domain. I'm not sure if the amount/day for ability uses can be rest, but since Alchemists can brew multiple mutagens a day they can change their domain on the fly to another one that their deity is based on.

>> No.52762753

>>52762665

>> No.52762793

>>52762734
That sounds confusing as hell.

>> No.52762817

>>52762793
There's probably some use for it, I'm not familiar enough with domains to know off-hand though.

>> No.52762819

Alright, I'm looking at the SoM playtest, and a thought as struck me.

They took out the guide for replacing spell from classes to give them other classes, andthere is very little information or apparent support for gaining Combat Spheres on non-practitioners. Further, Extra Talent doesn't have any prereqs and the playtest lacks a Basic Magic Training equivalent.

So I'm confused, does this mean that anyone can grab a Combat Sphere of choice just by taking the Extra Combat Talent feat, or is there just no support at all?

Am I missing something and am just retarded?

>> No.52762827

>tfw not sure if Overlewd is going to be about combat and shit or if it's going to be about more economics / development / administration

>> No.52762833

>>52762819
>SoM
>Ssalarn
>not being complicated and esoteric as fuck
It's the Arcforge guy, remember that.

>> No.52762842

>>52762485
I'd fuck him.

>> No.52762848

>>52762550

I think we all know the answer to that.

Both of the men, assuming it's 2/2 male/female.

>> No.52762857

>>52762827
C H A R I S M A

>> No.52762876

>>52762848
But which man would she want in which "position"?

>> No.52762880

>>52762827
I don't know anything about it

What's been presented doesn't give you any idea of anything about it

What the fuck IS this game

>> No.52762881

>>52762848
>tfw you'll never branwen Branwwn's branwens.

>> No.52762886

>>52762842
Would you, though? Would you be down for that 7 Str/Dex, 19 Cha?

>> No.52762887

>>52762819

The first and foremost method for non-spheremighters to gain combat spheres is through martial traditions, which are a mess. Here is how they work. If your very first class level is in a class that has proficiency with all martial weapons *or* at least one exotic weapon, you can cash in all of your proficiencies (except for proficiency with light armor and bucklers) in exchange for a martial tradition. A martial tradition is a package of four combat spheres/talents, which you can take drawbacks for.

The following Paizo classes manage to barely qualify for a martial tradition, having proficiency with all martial weapons or at least one exotic weapon, but not heavy armor: barbarian, bard, bloodrager, gunslinger, hunter, inquisitor, investigator, magus, mesmerist, monk, ninja, occultist, rogue, skald, slayer, swashbuckler, vigilante.

This is blatantly, unreasonably, because for the price of essentially "nothing," a bard or an investigator can suddenly gain a tradition like Brutal Butcher or Bushido Way. They both give Armor Training (instant proficiency in heavy armor, for those already proficient with light armor) and Dueling (both drawbacks are to be taken, granting the character Defensive Slice for Cut from the Air + Smash from the Air in a supplement that also presents Strength-based Combat Reflexes, and Scar Tissue for scaling damage reduction X/bludgeoning).

Brutal Butcher gives Axe Training (proficiency with many axes and +2 damage on attack actions with them) and a Gladiator package (take the Braggart drawback and then Fan Favorite). Bushido Way gives Bushido Tools (proficiency with many eastern weapons, including the nodachi, and a multiplied +2 damage on critical hits with them) and Beastmastery (take the Unskilled drawback to gain the Pet talent and thus a +4 initiative familiar).

Remember: this costs the bard or investigator absolutely nothing.

>> No.52762889

How many succubi do we have now for overlewd?

>> No.52762893

>>52762857

>> No.52762899

>>52762819

They took out the buy-in thing because they're working on it, but the intent is that there's no Basic Combat Training, you can just take Extra Combat Talent as a one-to-one feat buy-in if you don't use the revised buy-in system or just want a couple sphere abilities on your martial.

>> No.52762904

>>52762485
Reminds meof that short story from the "Petshop of horrors" manga, where some computer guy would dress up as a chick and go to clubs, and eventually he got murdered by a jealous suitor who though the girl was real and wanted her to himself.

Then they spent a while talking about how all the pet tropical fish the dude owned were all fish capable of successional hermiphroditism

>> No.52762905

>>52762881
Unless you nut up and a PM

>> No.52762914

>>52762819
>>52762887

The second method is to take the Extra Combat Talent feat.

Remember that bard or investigator who just took a martial tradition to gain four talents in exchange for essentially nothing? They now take Muscular Reflexes for Strength-based Combat Reflexes, as well as Extra Combat Talent in the Dueling sphere. They take both drawbacks for Dueling and select Defensive Slice (Cut from the Air + Smash from the Air) and Scar Tissue (scaling damage reduction).

Such is the power of splashing spheremighting onto a character.

Woe betide the enemies if a Path of War initiator takes a Spheres of Might martial tradition and a few iterations of Extra Combat Talent.

>> No.52762932

>>52762881

But there's only one way to make Branwen's Branwens even more Branwen!

>> No.52762943

https://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/SRD:Momento_Mori

>>52762880
It makes it extremely obvious that it's a somewhat evil game and that taking over shit is on the agenda, but it doesn't tell me jack about how I'm meant to accomplish it if the GM even has an idea himself.

>> No.52762948

>>52762914

To be fair, in a system that makes standard action attacks more of a thing while upping how effective they are damage wise DR 2/Bludgeoning is not exactly breaking anything, and Defensive Slice is fine if it can't Smash.

>> No.52762951

>>52762857
Maou is like ten feet tall
Emi is 5 foot six if we're generous
MATING WHEN

>> No.52762971

>>52762943
>but it doesn't tell me jack about how I'm meant to accomplish it if the GM even has an idea himself.

There probably isn't an idea. He just wants boobs.

>> No.52762987

>>52762948

>in a system that makes standard action attacks more of a thing
This is irrelevant in the case of all of the enemies that are not, in fact, spheremighters.

>Defensive Slice is fine if it can't Smash.
And yet, Defensive Slice *can* Smash from the Air.

Defensive Slice is also an easy way to invalidate an entire combat style (ranged attacks) against oneself, which is insanely strong for such a cheaply available talent.

>> No.52763000

>>52762887
>Remember: this costs the bard or investigator absolutely nothing.
That's an exaggeration. It costs them their current proficiencies, and in echange for being able to use all the weapons, they get a more specialized set of proficiencies and benefits.

Which is a good idea in general, and allows more versitility in making builds. Sure, the Investigator and Bard borks this due to thir wierd proficiency list, but for most of the other classes with martial proficiency this is fine.

Really, the only thing wrong with the Tradition system is that they should reduce the amount of available talents by half or so for those that have proficiency in an Exotic Weapon but not in all martial weapons.

You're making too big of a deal with it.

>> No.52763001

>>52762943
He's going to pick the most utterly broken monstergirl apps and then one poor human boi to get jerked around and jerked off by them

>> No.52763003

>>52761864
No ships for Essa. Old and busted.

>> No.52763015

>>52762971
>>52762943
That's because it's being made from scratch and not from out of a published AP.
The GM seems to be making this shit up as he goes, so charitably speaking, he's going to run the game based off what he thinks will please his players. Probably with kingdom building rules.

>> No.52763033

>>52762987
>This is irrelevant in the case of all of the enemies that are not, in fact, spheremighters.
>waaah, this thing that was meant to augment and upgrade the shitty martial system of PF is actually doing its job waaaaaah!
Fucking shit, this is OverPoWered all over again. Fuck off

>> No.52763038

>>52763000

To be fair, 2hu's thing is generally taking things a little past the logical extreme in optimizing but not exceeding what RAW allows for.

Destructive playtesting can be helpful if it's balanced with people that also give a more balanced view of what people will do with the systems.

PF's a ludicrously easy system to break into pieces, so a playtest is gonna be rife with shit like that, but I'll give DDS props that they certainly seem to be more responsive to feedback in this playtest than I've ever seen Paizo be when I took part in the ACG and Occult Adventures playtests.

>> No.52763045

>>52763015
The question is if combat will be a focus, if it'll be a thing but not the focus, or if it'll be literally Overlord where the only actual combat of importance is with ancient evils and or between players. I mean it's Gestalt. With Savage Species.

>> No.52763065

>>52763038
I think 2hu's breaking is useful because 2hu never said that this is what people are going to or should do, just that they literally can do it and you probably shouldn't let a level 1 do enough damage to dismantle a CR 6 on a single critical while having solid stats elsewhere.

>> No.52763070

>>52763000

I think not. Even setting aside the bard and the investigator, consider medium-armored classes like the hunter, the inquisitor, the occultist, the magus, and the skald.

These classes can trade in their medium armor proficiency and their martial weapon proficiency for all of the benefits of either Brutal Butcher or Bushido Way, which are major, non-negligible benefits laid out in >>52762887.

Suddenly, those previously-medium-armored characters are now in heavy armor. With Extra Combat Talent (Oversized Weapons), they are suddenly wielding 3d6 damage greataxes or 2d8 damage nodachis, on top of every other benefit from their martial traditions.

It is power creep, plain and simple. These classes trade in a trivial amount in exchange for plenty of benefits.

>> No.52763085

Spheres of Might is a mistake.

>> No.52763102

>>52763045
The idea of running some shitty little monster tribe means it'll probably be partly Overlord the game in addition to Overlord the animu. Hope he doesn't actually use mass combat though, that's a shitshow.

>> No.52763115

>>52763065
On the other hand, 2hu also applies to games using these builds, so I don't really think he knows how to switch off.

>> No.52763119

>>52763085

To be fair, Pathfinder's weapon combat is apparently completely unfixable.

The baseline version is agreed to be basically fucked if you're not an archer and looking to have a good time, and all 3pp attempts to fix the problem are generally regarded to be too much damage and not much else.

Which is why I've just stopped playing martial characters entirely. The entire system is too much of a hassle to bother with and nobody has any idea how to fix it, so you might as well just play a caster and get on with your life.

>> No.52763121

>>52763115
And then he gets rejected and no harm is done
Munchkins are a useful evil.

>> No.52763126

>>52763033

>Fucking shit, this is OverPoWered all over again. Fuck off

I am somehow doubtful that bards, hunters, inquisitors, investigators, mesmerists, occultists, and skalds were in need of a direct power upgrade from martial traditions.

Antipaladins, cavaliers, fighters, paladins, samurai, and warpriests receive a worse deal out of martial traditions, because they have to sacrifice their heavy armor proficiency for no discernible reason and for nothing in exchange.

Alchemists, brawlers, mediums, spiritualists are completely locked out of martial traditions because they lack the proficiencies to trade in. They are left out.

Since the Spheres of Might team is already writing up conversion archetypes for the great majority of Paizo classes anyway, it would be better for them to handle martial tradition trade-offs for Paizo classes on a case-by-case basis.

Let that sink in. Martial traditions are better for people like bards and investigators than they are for fighters. That is absurd.

>> No.52763139

>>52763126
Fighters, Warpriests, Cavaliers and Samurai should just get martial traditions for free. Whoever the fuck heard of a samurai without formal training in special schools of fighting? It doesn't exist.

>> No.52763142

>>52763119
Path of War has some damage issues, but it makes combat workable on the whole. The supplement failed to give its new classes roles outside of fighting. All of the fixes have fucking failed at that.

>> No.52763150

>>52763065
>1 do enough damage to dismantle a CR 6 on a single critical

But ANYONE can do that, like a barbarian.

>> No.52763160

>>52763150
But not many people have characters who crit 20% of the time at level 1.

>> No.52763172

>>52763150
Yeah but this guy threatens a crit 40% of the time, which is batfuck insane.

>> No.52763184

>>52763142

Part of this, I guess, is that the answer to "what should someone with magic be able to do" is "fucking anything, circumstances permitting," while people's imaginations tend to give out at "OK, but what does this seasoned adventurer do when it's not swordfighting time?"

>> No.52763192

>>52763160

36% much of the time, actually, between the Fool's built-in "roll an 18 or a 19, fumble that action, and then roll twice and take the higher result on all d20 rolls during the next round," the once-per-day Fool surge, and the six points of Bless each day.

>> No.52763206

>>52763003

Essa is dull, Nugget Man is the hotness.

The 2/2 split is making me anxious to see who the two men and two women will be, especially with the understanding that the DM will heavily encourage them to pair up.

>> No.52763221

>>52763184
That's basically my beef with SoM on the whole.

It's trying to be as wide in scope as Power was, but fighting is just a way more NARROW scope than 'literally anything you can do with magic'

>> No.52763223

I'm making my first character soon and I don't really know anything about pathfinder or tabletop games in general

does the stealth skill interact with sneak attacks at all? does stealth come up much?

>> No.52763239

>>52763003
>Valeriya leads the pack with three unique ships, none of which was the classic Val x Cas pairing
And people still think that Onryou is /pfg/'s golden girl

>> No.52763241

What is each /pfg/ game's OP?
>Hard Mode: Must actually have lyrics relevant to the campaign
>Nightmare Mode: Can't use something about money for Blingmaker

>> No.52763242

>>52761255
Calsicahedrix x Rinka, it even makes sense for Jessica Rabbit to be with a weird, awkward furry

Search your heart, you know it to be true

>> No.52763246

>>52763184
More because the martial classes are just martials. For casting classes, the magic that lets them Grease, Decapacitate, Cloudkill, and Meteor Swarm their enemies is also the magic that lets them Create Demiplane, Prestidigitation, Teleport, and Discern Location. For martial classes you need to add on flavor, like the flavor of actually being a seasoned mercenary or something (not just adventurer, since a Wizard 7 can as easily be a seasoned adventurer as a Fighter 7). The only way to fix this is either to add some more fantastical feats like Flash Stepping to be a new Dimension Door or something and even then there's a limit to what sounds reasonable to being accomplished by physical prowess, or by adding flavor to the classes to make Fighter a former soldier or mercenary or something, but that would lock down significantly on possible backstories when Fighter is basically catchall.

>>52763223
>does stealth come up much
Depends, but usually yes.

>> No.52763255

>>52763221

Well, the main thing is that you don't have to add anything to the system if you want your martial character to be an autism-turret that does nothing but a big damage attack every single turn he's not using a combat maneuver.

Classes that aren't casters really NEED things they can do that are as good as just being a magician if you want non-magic classes to stop being garbage by comparison.

>> No.52763257

>>52761255
Orlan x Gamze has a lot of potential. I'm deeply excited for greentexts.

>> No.52763261

>>52763241
RotJR: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6GrHnOLb-Y

>> No.52763265

>>52763241
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyGBqeSUDPw

>> No.52763273

>>52763241
Blingmaker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-UN6uRMBRw

>> No.52763274

>>52763239

Cas old and busted, Val works better with Sandru.

>> No.52763277

>>52763126
>Antipaladins, cavaliers, fighters, paladins, samurai, and warpriests receive a worse deal out of martial traditions, because they have to sacrifice their heavy armor proficiency for no discernible reason and for nothing in exchange.
>>52763070
>It is power creep, plain and simple. These classes trade in a trivial amount in exchange for plenty of benefits.
Alright, hold the fuck up. Are you telling me that losing Heavy Armor, which is already almost never used du to often not being worth it and impossible to grab at 1st level, somehow means these classes are trading the world away compared to a slaptarded investigator who want to get some extra combat ability at level 1 which will inevitable drag completely behind an equivalent Practitioner or dedicated Martial after about 3 levels, especially since Bards and Investigators lack the BAB scaling to make the most out of their talents and abilities

Son, you building mountains out of molehills here. Plus, considering how much level 1 is already a rustydagger shanktown, I doubt this makes much more of a difference in the long run

>> No.52763283

>>52763273
>using that for the garbage that is Blingmaker

Wrong

JUST WRONG

>> No.52763285

>classes that depends on INT, WIS, and CHA are shittier in a straight fight than ones that depend on STR, CON, and DEX but are basically useless outside of it
Just like real life :thinking:

>> No.52763287

>>52763255
And that's why I think the scope is way too big.

The scope needs to be smaller, less specific.

>> No.52763294

>>52763241
Obvious choice is obvious.
Overlewd: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMoVmSV4yA8

>> No.52763304

>>52763241
Shardwalkers: Magic Team

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kpq027OAMv0

>> No.52763306

>>52763239
The Sandru and Sigmund pairings are basically Valimir anyway.

>> No.52763307

>>52762466
>>52762550
>Hopeless nerd with no game
>THE ABYSS KNIGHT
>Dirty peasant
>Elvish jerk
>lukewarm Satanist
>murder monk
>slender kitsune fuccboi
>daddy
>serial killer
>The Nugget Man
>Duncan the Tall
>Jeremiah Johnson: Mountain Man
>The "Gunnery Sergeant"
>Gob Van Winkle

Let's be honest here, /pfg/. I think we all expected better.

Only three of these boors even come close to qualifying for branwenning Branwen's branwens!

>> No.52763313

>>52763307
Do this list for Overlewd

>> No.52763326

>>52763313
Christ, it's been open for like three days. Give it at least a week before we start bemoaning the lack of men.

>> No.52763330

>>52762886
Always wanted to fuck a prettyboy that I could accidentally or intentionally break.

>> No.52763335

>>52763326
Do it for the women too

>> No.52763339

>>52763307
Which three? Might I assume it's just the daddy, the Slow PC, and the weird gobbo?

>> No.52763350

Why is Overlewd so hyped?

>> No.52763351

>>52762889
Because of what it does to CHA, anyone with a CHA class is taking succubus on the other side.

Anything built to be a challenge to some of those monster class gestalts will be an impossible wall for anyone hoping to se something else.

>> No.52763352

>>52763307

Branwen will get enticed by Andrik's golden hair, she wants to claim his scepter for her hoard!

>> No.52763364

>>52762881
>>52762932
It probably takes a whole team of strapping lads to branwen her branwens!

>> No.52763368

>>52763257
Please. It's likely to happen, but if it's just fantasy sweet stuff I don't care. Come back when Gamze's getting superlewd and stealing his undergarments for clam-smacking material.

>> No.52763374

>>52763350
two words

'lewd' and 'gestalt'

>> No.52763380

>>52763350

It's the only game still recruiting once Blingmaker finishes up.

It's also "lewd comfy and Monster" which gets the weebs around here worked up.

>> No.52763383

>>52763351
Imagine a Deathless Ghost | Succubus gestalt tho
>+EIGHTEEN CHARISMA BY LEVEL 9
>MEANING A POSSIBLE 38 CHARISMA BY LEVEL 9
>MEANING +14 DEFLECT / 14 EFFECTIVE CONSTITUTION

>> No.52763385

>>52763246

The only, and I mean *only* spheremighter that has narrative-shaping abilities is the commander.

I consider the commander's narrative-dictating abilities reasonable, even if some could stand to be a little stronger and others should be toned down (e.g. secret ways, for portals).

Spheres of Might should open up the commander's narrative powers to all martials.

>>52763277

People underestimate just how useful heavy armor is. It is a life-saver from 3rd- to about 10th-level. It drops off in usefulness after then, but Dexterity is not in a better spot by that point either, given maximum Dexterity bonuses and the gradual obsolescence of AC.

Spheres of Might's paradigm is currently slanted towards Strength, if only because the martial traditions are set up in such a way as to push Strength-based builds, and if only because Muscular Reflex exists.

And yes. It is absolutely power creep for a 3rd-level bard, hunter, inquisitor, investigator, mesmerist, occultist, or skald to be able to strap on heavy armor and gain all the benefits of the Brutal Butcher or Bushido Way tradition in exchange for essentially nothing.

>> No.52763389

>>52763383
Monster classes are mutually exclusive unless your GM is a masochist.

>> No.52763391

>>52763389
He's already allowed Gestalt with Monster Classes.

>> No.52763400

>>52763285
>real life humans can be broken down into 6 poorly defined ability scores
>real life humans have equal point buy or ability to use said abilities
>People in real life with hight mental abilities are somehow worse at combat despite how actual combat and martial arts requires great ammounts of active problem solving, pattern recognition, and perceptual awareness
>People with the high physical ailities are automatically bad at mental tasks, despite how often times many of these tasks and professions can be eventually learned and mastered if given enough time to dedicate towards training, education, and focus as long as you aren't literally retarded or have an aberrant mental disorder
>implying all forms of active thinking can be so narrowly defined into 3 types, despite the numerous means and methods of learning abilities and the ways in which an individual can not only learn but also apply said learning
>>>/out/

>> No.52763401

>>52763391
>Gestalt is allowed
>Monster classes are allowed
>That automatically means gestalting tow monster classes is allowed right
No.

>> No.52763402

>>52763241
PLD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1bXu0XZDlU
or
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ks8WPvlQpbg

>> No.52763409

>>52763383
Imagine two sorcerers; one not a succubus and one a succubus. The latter will have what, twice the spells of the former, easily +10 to DC on'em, and be a godlike face on top of it.

>> No.52763410

>>52763401
It was meant to be a response to "unless your GM is a masochist".

>> No.52763420

>>52762905
"Is this the best you can do? I've met boggards who could use their hands better!"

>> No.52763421

>>52763409
just pick up Sorcerer at level 4 and Incoporeal / Selective tangibility at level 9 along with finish Succubus :^)

>> No.52763422

>>52763385
>People underestimate just how useful heavy armor is.
Stopped reading right there, thanks for confirming how retarded you are

>> No.52763427

>>52763383
no male equivalent to the succubus class either; nor equivalents for most other stats are there? I guess true dragon for CON and troll for retard-strength?

>> No.52763440

>>52763427
Probably
The Ghost is incredibly broken with anything that can boost stats, since its DEX stat is also its STR stat and its CHA stat is also its CON stat

>> No.52763446

>>52763402

Allow me to offer another choice for PLD.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sDaGSJpGMmA

Maybe Sigmund's Theme?

>> No.52763462

>>52763246
One Piece builder here, this kind of stuff is exactly why letting martials be MORE anime, not less, is the answer here. The fact that you can apparently one-shot the Tarrasque at high enough levels without just inherently being strong enough to do what you see in the gif below is absurd to me, especially when the kind of damage you're putting out is easily enough to level a building in a single swing. (had to post the link because apparently 4chan didn't want me to put it down as my post's image)

https://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/onepiece/images/6/6a/Gomu_Gomu_no_Kong_Gun.gif/revision/latest?cb=20161006173441

>> No.52763465

So, what's the highest ACP you can have? A Gold Tower Shield and +5 Titanic Gold Half-Plate for a 26?

>> No.52763470

>>52763440
I tried to make the ghost something that uses CHA, but I picked two things I'm pretty shit at optimizing. Hope it turns out fun, if the impossible happens and I make it.

>> No.52763490

>>52763241
WWW: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=999RqGZatPs

>> No.52763497

>>52763422

Tell that to the 3rd-level bard, hunter, inquisitor, investigator, mesmerist, occultist, or skald who took the Brutal Butcher martial tradition and the Muscular Reflexes and Extra Combat Talent (Oversized Weapons) feat.

Their attack action with a Large greataxe deals 3d6+2 plus 1.5 times Strength modifier damage (with no attack penalty, unlike with Power Attack), and they are probably in masterwork plate armor.

Dueling's Defensive Cut invalidates most ranged attacks against them, Dueling's Scar Tissue gives them scaling damage reduction X/bludgeoning, and Gladiator's Fan Favorite causes their successful saving throws to make their next attacks more accurate.

>> No.52763506

>>52763462
But anime casters are easily a trillion times more broken than anime martials.

>>52763470
The Ghost alone as a single class is more broken than most gestalt builds, just consider the stacked effects of Ectoplasmic Form, Incoporeal, and Selective Tangibility on top of your normal bonuses.

>> No.52763516

>>52763385
>The only, and I mean *only* spheremighter that has narrative-shaping abilities is the commander.
Wrong, Athletics, Alchemy, Beastmastery, Scout, and Trap all have varying degrees of out-of-combat utility, and thereby limited narrative control

You are either retarded, or don't know what narrative control actually means

>> No.52763533

>>52763506
>>52763506
Really powerful, until you come up against the foils for them? (Channel, force effects, ghost touch?)

I'll be the first to admit I have no idea what I'm doing, I think most of the monster classes are probably really broken, but if they're on the table, I wanna try them for something different. So me picking up a casty ghost and trying things for fun rather than optimum power. Maybe it'll work out, maybe it won't.

>> No.52763543

>>52763497
>ell that to the 3rd-level bard, hunter, inquisitor, investigator, mesmerist, occultist, or skald who took the Brutal Butcher martial tradition and the Muscular Reflexes and Extra Combat Talent (Oversized Weapons) feat.
Okay, now explain to me what is stopping a Sentinal or Fighter, or heck an even a barbarian) from doing the exact same thing to them?

>> No.52763550

>>52763533
Ghosts have +4 against Channel saves and while Ghost Touch / Force effects fuck up the Ghosts, their normal stats and abilities still come into play.

>> No.52763555

>>52763339
Only one out of three? I'd say you're dishonoring your House, but I'm afraid you left whatever family honor remained between that revolting wench's legs last night. Very disappointing!

>> No.52763568

>>52763368
>clam-smacking material

>> No.52763581

>we have two ghosts
>both of them are girls
>one of them is 6 foot 6 the other is 5 foot
No normal heights eh

>> No.52763586

>>52763490
Consider the following

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xS8gohdpEM

>> No.52763587

>>52763380
I want a comfy game with robots. Iron Godmaker when??

>> No.52763597

>>52763587
When you make it.

>> No.52763599

>>52763587
>Iron Godmaker
>not Iron Kings
0 naming sense.

>> No.52763606

>>52763550
Oh yeah, it's far from perfect. Same reason gunslingers are fabulous, until you find enemies with high touch AC, etc. Being undead, I'm sure there's still gonna be problems, but if the beautiful train wreck that is monster classes is legitimately on the table, I figure it'll be fun to try. Haven't found many other ways to play a legitimate spirit without screwing things up royally.

>> No.52763615

>>52763516

Alchemy, Athletics, Beastmastery, Scout, and Trap have precisely zero narrative-shaping abilities.

A wizard's teleport spell certainly influences a narrative a fair bit, but it is *not* narrative-shaping.

When a commander uses secret ways to retcon that there was a portal here all along? When the same commander uses call in a specialist to declare that a helpful NPC is actually available to assist the party? When the same commander uses Now *those* are directly narrative-shaping. They are not necessarily more powerful than teleport spells, raise dead spells, commune spells, and the like, but they allow a player to directly dictate things about the game world to their favor.

Narrative-shaping abilities should really be opened up to all spheremighters.

>>52763543

I am not complaining about the sentinel.

What I am complaining about how the fighter has effectively gained only three talents out of a similar deal (since they had to trade in their heavy armor proficiency). The fighter (coiled blade) archetype helps this somewhat, but that does not help the fighters who wanted to be mutation warriors and the like.

>> No.52763618

>>52763352
All things in the world are hers to possess and that includes his ridiculously enormous scepter!

>> No.52763631

>>52763506
Depends on the show, in OP for example the number of people there that are "casters" (of which I'll count Logia and terrain-affecting Paramecia alongside people like Nami, whose field effects are basically just gished magic) there are regularly countered by martials (includes self-boosting Paramecia like Luffy and Zoans, plus the non-fruit users that are just flat out strong) and you have a system where relying on a single strong ability will only get you so far before you need to innovate and improve yourself in other ways, because your next opponent might not be so easily killed by you spamming 15 Fireballs and then will appear in a flash behind you and unsheathe his sword.

>> No.52763644

>>52763555

Tough talk coming from a backwoods harlot, do you dress up like that to get the blood away from men's brains? Maybe then you'll have a chance to convince us your hackneyed plans for instant wealth make sense.

Nah, you're making your money the old fashioned way, with good honest labor. Knowing you, that's probably on your back or knees.

>> No.52763651

>>52762670
Thanks to the FAQs, CHA also limits the arcanist's Consume Spells and Consume Magic Items class features.

>> No.52763658

>>52760861
When I posted the anime OP.

>> No.52763665

>>52763446
I'd endorse it.

>> No.52763707

I'm trying to wean myself off of insincere apps made with no intention to actually play the game but I really want to make a fun one for Overlewd. What do I do?

>> No.52763714

Is swashbuckler bad if you just take like three levels in it? Seems amazing to me, as a dexfag.

1 level:
>Weapon Finesse
>use charisma instead of int to meet requirements for combat feats
>can spend grit to 5 foot when attacked and add charisma to dodge
>can spend grit to add an exploding d6 to acrobatics, climb, escape artist, fly, ride, and swim AFTER rolling their d20
>can parry for grit, and counter attack if successful
>d10 HD

2 levels:
>charisma to saves three times a day

3 levels:
>+1 dodge AC
>+2 initiative while you have grit
>can get up from prone without AoO, or as swift for grit
>+swashbuckler level to damage, can be doubled by expending grit, and stacks with dex-to-damage feats

With archetypes you can get free weapon focus (rapier), rapid reload (musket), gunsmithing, fire arm prof, make scimitars finessable, or dervish dance (though level 4 for that).

Why is this the same tier as a commoner when it has full BAB and +1 damage every level?

>> No.52763719

>>52763707
make it a meme

>> No.52763723

Another standout Spheres of Might talent that I have been ignoring until now, despite others having mentioned it frequently, is Fencing's Parry and Riposte.

>Parry and Riposte
>When a creature makes a melee attack against you, you may expend your martial focus and use an attack of opportunity to attempt to parry that attack. Make an attack roll as if you were making an attack of opportunity, but for each size category the attacking creature is larger than you, you take a –2 penalty on this roll. If your result is greater than the attacking creature's result, the creature's attack automatically misses and you regain your martial focus. If your base attack bonus is +5 or greater, you may choose to make a single melee attack against a creature whose attack you have successfully parried instead of regaining your martial focus.

It is not difficult to invalidate enemies' melee attacks against you with Parry and Riposte, and to abrogate ranged attacks via Defensive Slice.

>> No.52763743

>>52763714
Swashbuckler is great for those that just want to dish out damage and be a general nuisance to your enemy in battle, but outside of that it falls a bit short in terms of effects on the story outside of being a pretty face.

Also people are salty that you can't hold a girl in your offhand arm while you swashbuckle with your sword arm.

>> No.52763755

>>52761086
Learn the most useful spells of each level. Prepare multiples of them. Leave slots open to fill later (or be an Exploiter Wizard and hotswap with Quick Study). Have scrolls of useful, but niche shit so as not to fill up your day to day preparations.

Make sure you can hit all three saves and have an escape route.

Buff your other party members when you have the chance. Haste is better on them than you, since you don't get an extra action off of it, for example.

Coordinate with your party; your moneymaker spells reshape the battlefield and require everyone on the same page to work. The best example is dropping a debuff fog, then having your allies wait right outside with readied actions to gank the first ones out.

/pfg/ says wizards can do everything and anything because they learned casters secondhand through theory op bullshit. You can do everything, but focus on something or you won't be able to do anything.

>> No.52763768

>>52763644
You know, my mother taught me to make dozens of potions and poultices, to mend bones, stitch skin, embolden the soul, and even thirteen different recipes to still the heart and rot the flesh, and yet in all the world there is not a single recipe or formula capable of removing your head from your rear!

>> No.52763785

>>52763768
That's where real doctors come in

>> No.52763791

>>52763768
>>52763644
>>52763555
>TFW if Kyras gets in the biggest meme-whore since Rory is likely to be the only sane man

>> No.52763801

>>52763723

Isn't that basically the same as what the Swashbuckler's Parry & Riposte already does?

>> No.52763824

>>52763801
Seems so.

>Opportune Parry and Riposte (Ex): At 1st level, when an opponent makes a melee attack against the swashbuckler, she can spend 1 panache point and expend a use of an attack of opportunity to attempt to parry that attack. The swashbuckler makes an attack roll as if she were making an attack of opportunity; for each size category the attacking creature is larger than the swashbuckler, the swashbuckler takes a –2 penalty on this roll. If her result is greater than the attacking creature’s result, the creature’s attack automatically misses. The swashbuckler must declare the use of this ability after the creature’s attack is announced, but before its attack roll is made. Upon performing a successful parry and if she has at least 1 panache point, the swashbuckler can as an immediate action make an attack against the creature whose attack she parried, provided that creature is within her reach. This deed’s cost cannot be reduced by any ability or effect that reduces the number of panache points a deed costs.

>> No.52763831

>>52763791
Who would win in a meme-off between Kyras and Rory if you tied Rory's stupidly enormous cock behind his back?

>> No.52763841

>>52763831
>not shoving it up his ass

>> No.52763846

>>52763768
>>52763791
For all-Gods' sake, I keep telling you, YOU CAN BANG BACK AT THE CAMP, STOP FLIRTING IN COMBAT!

>> No.52763860

>>52761568
>It'll be my first time using summons

DON'T

Unless you know the MM like the back of your hand AND print out your go-
to monsters for table reference, you will slow the game to a crawl and everyone will hate you.

>>52762253
They can put a lot of things together to critfish as a Reach build? And?

Christ, 2hu; just because you can slap a bunch of shit together to have a chance to maybe be as good as a Reach Cleric/Alchemist 85% of the time doesn't mean the class is OP.

Fuck off with your useless theory building bullshit.

>> No.52763869

>>52763801

Yes, and it is just about one of the few good things the swashbuckler has available to it.

Fencing's Parry and Riposte, on the other hand, is available to everyone for a feat via Extra Combat Talent in Fencing with the Clumsy Footing and Honorable Combatant drawbacks. You also gain Read Foe out of it, automatically filling up your Sense Motive with full ranks for your level.

>> No.52763879

>>52763846
>mfw if the both don't get in.

>> No.52763897

>>52763869

See, I diverge from Paizo in that I don't think that ability is so star-spangled awesome you need to at least dip in a garbage-fire class to get access to it.

>> No.52763906

>>52763879
But Anon! Practice makes perfect! Even if you don't succeed today, writing something out helps you get selected another time!
Don't lose hope! I believe in you!

>> No.52763908

>>52763860

Reach clerics and reach alchemists are highly overrated, and I do not know why people bother playing them.

At least Muscular Reflexes would grant Strength-based Combat Reflexes, and Defensive Slice and Parry and Riposte would offer more to do with attacks of opportunity.

>> No.52763916

>>52763723
Well, to be fair, that DOES require you to expend your focus.

How easy is it to recover that off turn?

Focus is still a dumb mechanic.

>> No.52763948

>>52763916

If you are successful, however, you regain your focus.

Interestingly, Defensive Slice and Parry and Riposte are an incentive to *not* actually use Power Attack. That is somewhat surprising.

>> No.52763951

>>52763916

>Recover off-turn

As far as I know, I'm pretty sure you flat-out can't recover your focus on turns besides your own unless there's talents I'm missing. It's normally a full-defense action and sometimes you can do it as a swift if you do something during your turn.

Personally I think SoM might've been better off being combined with the Stamina system but the design intent was for it to combine with the core combat system so I guess you can't really have that count on an optional subsystem a lot of GMs don't even use.

>> No.52763954

What are some good Overlewd ships?

>> No.52763957

>>52763906
It's too late. I'm already in despair.

>> No.52763958

Welp, I think that's enough /pfg/ for one night. I think I'm gonna fire up Runescape and chop some logs.

>> No.52763969

>>52763768
>>52763846
I'd also *greatly* appreciate it if you'd keep the volume down this time. The candle gives me enough trouble sleeping as-is...

>> No.52763972

>>52763954
Succubed x literally all the male apps

Any of the Succubuses x any of the male apps

Ghost girl x other ghost girl.

>> No.52764003

>>52763957
No, Anon! No! Don't lose hope! You can overcome this, I know it! Post your apps! Let us help you become stronger!

>> No.52764010

what does pathfinder have to do with weaboo anime shit? serious question

>> No.52764013

>>52763954
What kinds of NPCs do you want the Overlewd party to run into or buddy up with?

>> No.52764014

>>52763958
>logs

>> No.52764019

Hey guys, as a fix for the Dark Elementalist for an evil campaign, does this work?

>Gain Soul Tormentor as a bonus feat at 3rd, Soul Feast as a bonus feat at 7th, both from Legendary Kineticists
>Instead of gated by CR being greater than or equal to character level, you have to kill a number of sentient creatures with an INT score greater than 1, and the total HD of those creatures must be equal to your total levels in all classes that grant a Kinetic Blast (i.e you must kill at least 3 HD worth of creatures, or consume 3 HD worth of souls, in order to power up completely, if you're a Dark Elementalist 3)

I don't think these fixes are particularly bad- I mean, a Dark Elementalist is definitely a weaker option than a normal kineticist, but flavorwise it's cool as heck and I want to play one in an Evil Campaign

Is Legendary Kineticist (Dark Elementalist, Elemental Scion of Void, Kinetic Duelist)//Slayer (Witch Killer) a good concept for an Evil game? They use destructive, primal magic in the form of devastating blades to hunt down and murder witches that step out of line, and draw power from the souls of the departed

>>52763954
Lucius X All the more serious female apps. I think there was a gnoll in there somewhere.

...wait, aren't Gnolls like 8' tall or something in Overlewd's setting?

>> No.52764026

Is there a feat like the Precise Bombs feat except for... not bombs? I'm trying to build a Gloom Chymist and I don't want to nuke my friends by mistake.

>> No.52764027

>>52764010

As much or as little as you want.

>> No.52764031

>>52763957
It's never too late Anon! Everyone can improve if they put in the effort.

>> No.52764033

>>52763714
A class that is only good for three levels is not a good class. Single classing means taking the shitty parts, too.

Then you get to the fact the good things they have...aren't very good. Grit is hard to regen, Paladins have Cha to saves all day and aren't locked into the worst melee style, exploding d6 to skills does not have the law of averages on your side, HD is not as important as Con for HP, scimitars are already finessable with two feats and an easy skill rank prerequisite, +1 AC isn't shit, +2 Initiative isn't as great as you would think, and there are better damage boosts on other classes.

The only things Swashbucklers have to themselves are standing up from prone without taking an AoO and Opportune Parry+Riposte. The former is niche unless you fight a lot of wolves or trip builds. The latter was really damn good, but your Grit is at a premium and you can't buy it down anymore.

Compare to the Paladin, which wakes up in the morning being able to do +level/+Cha for hit/damage every attack for rounds, that doubles on a very common set of enemies. They get a better version of Charmed Life, better weapons, better armor, a better AC bonus from class, and spells. Then they can also take Xing Grace.

>> No.52764044

>>52764033
>Grit is hard to regen

Yeah, I'm gonna call bullshit on this. Panache is super easy to regen, since you're both a melee DPS and will have a 15-20 crit range from level 5 onwards.

>> No.52764045

>>52764014
Trimming Rune Armor 4 10k gp, follow me to wildy

>> No.52764064

>>52764033

Also if you really like the Swashbuckler's deeds there's now the Virtuous Bravo Paladin, which doesn't get paladin spells but otherwise gets basically all of the Swashbuckler's class features while keeping Divine Grace, Lay On Hands, their auras, and most of Smite Evil.

There's TWO archetypes for other classes that swashbuckle better than the swashbuckler.

>> No.52764074

>>52763969
You louse! Methinks serpentine Envy lies coiled around your heart!

>> No.52764100

>>52764019
Who would you consider the more serious female apps?

>> No.52764107

>>52764010
We're on a weaboo anime board, it's only natural that comparisons would come up.

That said, one of the guys in the Discord chat is talking about how in AD&D certain levels of any given stat would give you inherent boosts, such as having 19 Con giving you Fast Healing 1 every 6 rounds, with each additional Con lowering it down by a round until you got Fast Healing 1 every round at 24 Con. Stuff like this is what should be inherent to characters with high ability scores, and it pisses me off that we don't have things like this inherent to characters with high scores like this without having to spend feats on it in more modern versions of the game.

I'd even be willing to let enemies and monsters get by with having such a thing, because really where, for instance, is a Gryphon going to go in order to heal up from losing 90% of his HP fighting adventurers without having to take a literal month to recover?

>> No.52764138

New thread

>>52764130
>>52764130
>>52764130
>>52764130
>>52764130

>> No.52764143

>>52764107
I want the AD&D shilling to stop.

>> No.52764146

>>52763241
Evil lewd game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NI9Sa8LpZ3g

>> No.52764164

>>52764107
Yeah, man. I love lolrandom inconsistent bullshit in my rules, really improves the game.

>> No.52764174

>>52764100
Lemme see... starting from the bottom of the applications page, and going up, we've got

>Kenna
>Helvetica?
>Olivia
>Crytha
>Cijiska
>Ecaterina
>Yamelia?
>Emilia

Ones with a question mark I'm not sure about

>> No.52764261

>>52764033
Yeah that's all good and all and makes sense mostly, but does that really reduce them to being the same level as the Commoner? And does a double-able class level to damage not count for something?

>> No.52764315

>>52763908
Because you're a goddamned stupid autist who should have died with 4th Edition.

Strength-based Combat Reflexes is neat, but you're gaining three AoOs on a Strfag who takes Dex 14 and Jack shit on a Dexfag. If OPR is part of your build, it can safely be assumed that someone building around OPR and Combat Reflexes in 1pp would also go Dex. You know, because one-dropping Swashbuckler for OPR is its main use now and it hands you finesse. Also Bladed Brush is a thing.

I know Voltroning fiddly bullshit is how you get hard, but for Christ's sake it takes all that to do a Reach gimmick that a 1pp character can walk in with from the jump.

The critfishing is cute, but how much do you have invested to massage the numbers for a still less than 50/50 chance to make something explode?

I can't comment on Defensive Slice, but the actual point of this bullshit seems to be taking advantage of the 3pp design philosophy, MOAR STUFF. With it, you can put together a defensive build at level 1 that would take at least 2nd/3rd to come online with 1pp (1-drop Swashbuckler for the finesse training and OPR, take some class that gives you Longarm and/or Enlarge Person).

Again, so fucking what? You want a cookie? You managed to jump through a bunch of hoops for a one level discount that only matters now because Paizo axed poaching OPR easily. Oh, and a 36% chance of punching way above weight, if focusing all your class's numberfucking abilities on it.

>> No.52764423

>>52764010
Pathfinder, and 3.X in general, expect a higher level of special effects from classes at lower levels than previous D&Ds. The powers of full casters, plus the proliferation of magic/martial hybrids, makes the game more reminiscent of Japanese pop-fantasy, where everyone can do something flashy and supernatural.

Instead of looking to mythic deeds, grognards derided the supernatural martial abilities as anime. This started with the Book of Nine Swords and stuck, until it eventually stopped being a mark of scorn and became a selling point.

Combine that with the popularity of anime, various 3rd party material (or 1st, depending on how you see come classes) invoking anime tropes, and being on a Mongolian Matte Painting board, and there you go.

>> No.52764583

>>52764261
Pally does it better, and it costs way too much to keep that double damage up when you're spending for every hit.

Swashbucklers aren't Commoner tier, though.

>> No.52765389

>>52761264
>>52761288
>late-ass reply to very much not-that-late answer
Don't I look like an asshole?

That sounds like decent advice except it's the vigilante slayer, rather than the brutal slayer. Sneak attack at 1st/every three after, swaps some disciplines, and gets a really silly full-round recovery.

Also can take Investigator talents.

>> No.52765464

>>52763954
The Ghost and the Wraith desu
One of them is light purplish white while the other is pitch black
They're all they have left in terms of options

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