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D&D 5th Edition General Discussion

>New Unearthed Arcana: Traps Revisited
http://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/0227_UATraps.pdf

>Give feedback on the previous Unearthed Arcana
http://sgiz.mobi/s3/19723ad02610

>New Plane Shift: Kaladesh
http://media.wizards.com/2017/downloads/magic/Plane-Shift_Kaladesh.pdf

>Official /5eg/ Mega Trove v4b
https://mega.nz/#F!z8pBVD4Q!UIJWxhYEWy7Xp91j6tztoQ

>Pastebin with resources and so on
http://pastebin.com/X1TFNxck

>5etools
https://5egmegaanon.github.io/5etools/5etools.html

>Previous thread
>>52020063

FACT: MANTICORES ARE THE MOST POWERFUL MONSTERS IN THE WORLD

How have you best used Manticores to bully your players?

>> No.52026809

>http://www.strawpoll.me/12466636

A rather basic one this time.

>> No.52026893

Has Speak with Dead been used in any of your campaigns?

>> No.52026925

>>52026893
Yes.

>> No.52026974

>>52026893
No.

>> No.52026982

>>52026893
Maybe

>> No.52026992

>>52026893
fuck you

>> No.52027014

>>52026893
Yes.

It went badly.

>> No.52027052

>>52026893
Speak with Dead is the only reason my current campaign didn't end three months ago. The players don't care about a story, they don't care about any sort of quest, all they care about is killing things and then using Speak with Dead to laugh and call the corpses pussies and piss in their mouth. I need a new group but everyone I know is somehow worse please help

>> No.52027097

9th for Timestop is a joke for a 9th level spell

>> No.52027118

>>52027052
Back when we were drunken teens this happened a few times. The group would kill people they didn't like then Speak With Dead to bring the poor fuck around enough to watch them vandalize his corpse.

Wish I could help more than "they'll maybe grow out of it in a decade or so".

>> No.52027119

>>52027097
>Time-affecting magics before level 9

Rather than make timestop a lower level spell, they merely need to buff it. And even then, considering action economy, I'm pretty sure there're some pretty good uses for it, even if it's a 'get out of jail free' spell like teleport except with more fucking around.

>> No.52027173

>>52027119
I agree it can be lowered in lvl, it has always be 9th level and deserves it.

>I am pretty sure there's some pretty good uses
Everybody says so but I've never seen anything compelling.

>teleport
Just teleport then.

>buff yourself
Concentration

>delayed spells
Really not worth a 9th level slot

>> No.52027176

>>52027097
>>52027119
desu you should be allowed to affect other creatures during it

>> No.52027179

DMs, was there time in your campaign where you threw in this elaborate hook that would tangent your players to this adventure you got planned out that could tide them over for a couple of months or three of good old adventuring but was cut-short to a criminal few weeks when they did something that sensibly ended your planned adventure?

>> No.52027202

>>52027176
Yes, if you affect a creature it should end the spell FOR THAT CREATURE.

>> No.52027206

>>52027119
The problem with buffing is its easy to overshot.

>> No.52027209

>>52026982
I DONT KNOOOOW

>> No.52027255

>>52027209
>>52026893
Can you repeat the question

>> No.52027391

>>52027173
There are plenty of non-concentration buffs out there, or traps or environmental things you can do.

Forcecage, for example, doesn't use concentration and you could easily argue that it doesn't affect other creatures until they try to bash against it or teleport out.

Mirror image. Maybe dispell magic on something that'd fuck up the combat if it's not worn.

Use items. Set up traps. Move a trap. Mostly a lot of environmental things you could do here.
Maybe animate some dead, the dead don't become creatures until after you animate undead them.

Make some walls, minor illusion, this or that. Use your bonus actions to put poison on an array of weapons for the rogue.

I think the main synergy you could be getting is through using your time to interact with the environment, really. The problem is that 1+1d4 turns is basically only an extra 1d4 turns if all you planned to use was your action. Which could be only 1 extra turn, as a level 9 spell.

By the sounds of the 'ready' action description, you could even ready an action to happen later in the round because technically it's still the same round.


Still, I can see some really niche uses cropping up here and there where you simply just need more actions and not the actions something like 'haste' grants you, and those actions aren't just 'fireball enemy again'.


But overall the spell is really niche and it has the chance of rolling a 1 on the 1d4 to give you jack shit but a worse action surge.

>> No.52027402

So my players are thinking of uniting Klauth and his dragon cronies and King Hekaton and like-minded giants to go against Imyrith who I've added that she's in cahoots with a Beholder and Slarkethel.

Their SKT run for the past year has let them unite the giant lords (save for the Hill and Frost giants) with Hekaton and on the other hand, they've made a very uneasy alliance with Klauth and during a little improv and other shit, they somehow managed to get Klauth and Felgolos to help deal with this giant threat (at the time, they really thought something was up with the giants that bringing in dragon's help would be a good idea) I also added some info that Klauth hates the shit out of Imyrith for reasons.

Now with the information that Imryith is behind it all and she's in cahoots with a beholder (something I threw in), the daughters of Hekaton and Slarkethel (I might not bring the kraken in the foray though but I really dig the Society), they're thinking this one big fight to handle that they want to get dragons and giants, enemies that span centuries, to unite for this one moment.

My players are excited at the prospect but I'm wondering if this is gonna bite them (and me) in the ass. I'm just asking for another set of eyes if there might be some crazy plot hole coming in (I mean, you can't just set aside centuries of hatred between dragons and giants for this one dragon gone rogue for once but i'm letting that slide) or should I just let them have it cause "rule of cool"?

>> No.52027421

>>52027179
No. I would not let foolish pride lead me to sabotage my hard work and spitefully blame everyone else for it.

>> No.52027438

>>52027391
Speaking of which, power word: kill is really niche, too.

I think the problem with level 9 spells is there's a couple of overwhelmingly generally great spells like wish and foresight to fuck up the purpose of using any other level 9 spell.

>> No.52027446

Seriously, where did that one anon disappear to?

Got a beta for the orcs, have had for a long time now. Fixed the Wisdom modifier because jesus christ Kensei Monks for murder.

>> No.52027458

How do we fix the kaldesh crafting feats?

Problem: One feat is basically an inferior find familiar. The other feat, quicksmithing can just have find familiar, meaning there's no reason to ever pick up servo crafting.

Problem: Quicksmithing is unclear about how the spells are cast. Are they even cast? you're using artifice instead of hand movements. Is the 10 minute ritual time the time you spend crafting? Or do you craft the object earlier, in your downtime? One way is kind of lame, since it just makes you sort of an inferior spell caster, Don't get me wrong, it's easily one of the best feats you can take in any situation. But it's implemented poorly. the other way doesn't seem to be supported by the text at all.

>> No.52027459

>>52027402
Force them to earn actually getting the drakes and giants cooperate, make them demonstrate s feat or strenght or something

>> No.52027461

>>52027438
At least if the niche use for those spells comes up you're more likely to have the spell prepared than in earlier editions.

>> No.52027485

So, beside the weird and original settings like Dark Sun, Planescape, Spelljammer...what other d&d settings are there and what makes them recognizable?

>> No.52027516

>>52027391
>forcecage
Just cast forcecage then you don't gain anything with timestop there

>non con buffs
Timestop for blink + mirror image. Not worth

>set up traps
Kek you in a level 17+ fight

>make some walls
Make one wall you mean, walls require concentration (except one of them I believe), just cast the wall then.

>minor illusion
Give an example

>poison an arrow
9h level

>still I can see some really niches uses croppong up here
Just like I said, everybody says it has some good uses but I've never seen one.

You gave nice things to do during a timestop
but earnestly, would you cast it for any of the reason you listed above ?

>> No.52027581

I need help making a werewhale, any tips/ideas?

>> No.52027599

>>52027581
Look for posts made on nights of the full moon to observe differences between their natural state and the transformed state.

http://thisisthinprivilege.org/

>> No.52027700

>>52027581
Here's your character art.

>> No.52027755

How would you make the revised ranger spellless? I really like the idea of a ranger without magic.

>> No.52027763

>>52027755
By playing a battlemaster or scout fighter.

>> No.52027825

>>52027446
Allright, anon wherever you are, I'm done (stat-wise). I'm not sure whether I'm up to writing all the fluff for them, especially when you can find all the needed info in Volo.

Or maybe I should just rip pieces of that fluff into these?

>> No.52027894

>>52027763
Neither of those have wilderness mechanics like a ranger, or favored enemy, or good animal companions.

>> No.52027948

>>52027894
>wilderness mechanics
Survival skill.
>favored enemy
Who gives a shit?
>Good animal companions
Ranger doesn't have that either

>> No.52027952

>>52027894
As if favored enemy was worth considering at all.

>> No.52027955

>>52027894
Read Scout Fighter again, to correct your ignorance. Then come back and read this post.

just add the find familiar feat from kaladesh and refluff it as a small animal companion

>> No.52027962

>>52027202
that's...a really good fix, actually. I will steal this.

>> No.52027985

>>52027206
For 9th level spells? I don't think anything can even scratch Wish, so I think it's pretty safe to buff it.

>> No.52028004

So, I want to RIP AND TEAR. And do a fuckton of damage, in melee. And actually stay there, and not have to worry about spell slots or self-heals or whatever bullshit is there. Wha class, or combo, is best for that?

>> No.52028007

So I hear vecna is omniscient in term of knowing secrets, like if you know say a way out of the dnd multiverse he would know it due to it.

>> No.52028082

>>52028007
thats retarded you should feel embarrassed even thinking about that

>> No.52028085

>>52028004
Barbarian? Totem barbarian?

>> No.52028093

>>52027599
underrated

>> No.52028105

>>52028093
nah it's shit

>> No.52028129

>>52028004
>So, I want to RIP AND TEAR. And do a fuckton of damage, in melee.
PAM Oathbreaker Paladin
>not have to worry about spell slots or self-heals or whatever bullshit is there
Doing the sickest melee damage with spell slots or doing mediocre damage without spell slots. Pick 1

>> No.52028130

>>52028082
i was asking it as a querstion wanker, I heard it somewhere and was asking for its vercaity.

>> No.52028152

>>52028085
What about the damage bit?

>>52028129
That's the opposite of what I was aiming for.

>> No.52028154

>>52027097
There's the basic use of putting up all your non-conc buffs if you get ambushed, but there's also a few killer combo uses with spells that don't affect the enemy right away, like cloudkill. It triggers at the start of enemy turn and when they enter the spell's area on a turn, but not when you cast it.

>> No.52028180

>>52027948
>>52027952
>>52027955
Favoured enemy and animal companions who fight in combat are both archetypal for a ranger.

>> No.52028185

>>52028152
Just ask your dm about magic items and how often you'll get them. Maybe beg him for one and tell him your concept?

>> No.52028206

Anyone have any experience with the Oath of Treachery UA?
How'd it play, what was your character like, etc.?
Asking because one of my players is interested and I want to know how it plays out on the table before giving him the go-ahead.

>> No.52028224

>>52028152
I guess you could go PAM GWM Barb but it's not going to do anywhere near the damage any paladin will dish out.

>> No.52028228

>>52027438
>Speaking of which, power word: kill is really niche

Great for killing death fuckery, and Shapechangers.

That onion druid giving you shit with infinite wild shapes? Just shut his ass down

>> No.52028235

>>52028185
Are you telling me that martials are still worthless, even though this edition is praised for fixing that?

>> No.52028243

>>52027962
That's an awful fix, for the record.
>Cast mass buff.
>Whole team has 1d4 rounds to fight enemies one at a time.

>> No.52028258

Friendly reminder that PAM is part of what's wrong with this edition.

>> No.52028277

>>52028258
Also crossbow expert.

>> No.52028278

>>52028206

I went Fallen Aasimar, Paladin of Loki

It was fine. Just fine. Some niche mesh here and there, but at the end, I'd might as well just have had better roleplay with a Valor Bard

>> No.52028291

>>52028258

>PAM is OP meme

kek, good laugh, bruv

>> No.52028301

>>52028291
It's not OP, it's mediocre and everything else is shit.

There's no reason to choose any feat over stat increase. Or PAM. That's why it's shit.

>> No.52028311

>>52028258
You guys really ought to be nicer to Pam.

>> No.52028316

>>52026767
It attempted to snatch the cute Fighter from their encampment late at night because she smelled the most delicious

>> No.52028322

>>52027485
Eberron has magic robots, magic skyships, magic cold war intrigue, and halfling barbarians riding dinosaurs.

>> No.52028341

>>52028243
>implying it wasn't intended

>> No.52028350

>>52028278

Like, for example, you want to maximize missing opportunities, so that means pumping up your armor class to the point where a lot of your other options become boring.

>> No.52028358

>>52028311
She's a fat whore and deserves to be drowned in a toiled.

>> No.52028395

>>52028301
>There's no reason to choose any feat over stat increase.
Why say things that make it so that no one will take you seriously?

>> No.52028398

>>52028154
>non con buffs
yawn.jpg

>killer combo
>casting cloudkill
You need to develop, as of now you are just reducing the duration of cloudkill by 1d4+1.

>> No.52028423

What are some useful ways to use an AT? On the surface, they don't seem too in-depth or useful aside from healer kits.

>> No.52028435

>>52028301
>gwm
>sharpshooter
>cbe
>resilient
>shield master
>sentinel
All respectable feats
>lucky
>magical initiate
Meme feats but fun

>> No.52028438

>>52028398

I suppose that if you're a bard, you can use Time Stop to start laying Circle of Power, Forcecage, Enhance Ability: Charisma and a level 8 Spiritual Weapon

>> No.52028440

>>52028423
Make alchemists fire.

>> No.52028450

>>52028395
Seriously, though, out of all those feats there are like seven or eight worth taking, tops. Others are pretty niche.

>> No.52028458

>>52028438

But then the question becomes:

Why didn't you use Foresight instead?

>> No.52028461

>high fantasy game
>magical beasts every-fuckin'-where
>give players free reign in character creation
we shot "serious" campaigns in the back of the head and dumped that body in a ditch a long while ago.
"So what are you guys playing as."

>A CENTAUR SHIELD PALADIN LANCE ALL-DAY EVERY DAY

>A NAGA HEAVY MUSKETEER

>A DRIDER DRUID / SORCERER

>the final guy.
>a human fisherman

>> No.52028478

>>52028461
Hey, you never know. The guy might have a fun idea in mind.
But you'll probably just get anti-fun responses telling you to kill yourself or go back to pathfinder general because how DARE you play something other than the core four races.

>> No.52028525

>>52027755
Battle master fighter with the outlander theme

>> No.52028533

>>52028004

Soulknife is always the answer.
Resources like a monk, damage like a paladin, flexibility like a warlock with useful invocations.

File's too big cause pics but here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9p7DxYuE-3VRVB2aUFXdmpxMU0

>> No.52028538

>>52028461
Have you never heard of a straight man?

>> No.52028561

>>52028538
This. In a group of weirdos a regular dude provides some nice contrast.

>> No.52028573

>>52028180
It probably wouldn't be hard to work favored enemy and animal companion into feats

>> No.52028576

>>52028478
He did.
I was just surprised how he didn't go for is usual harpy character.

Basically he was your standard fighter class but his fishing rod was his weapon.
>quarterstaff
>with a special ability to HOOK and PULL enemies out of cover.
>advantage on tiny enemies
It was hilarious

>> No.52028615

>>52027097
you just have to pair it up with Conjure Machine and flashy roleplay

>> No.52028632

>>52028576
Well, that sounds pretty fun and tongue-in-cheek. I see nothing wrong with that.

Honestly the opposite, dirt-and-dung peasantpunk fantasy that tries to be all dark and realistic, is way worse imo. I'd rather play a historical setting and treat it like the legends about magic were real.

>> No.52028633

>>52027179
My party had a rival/enemy. A mad scientist with no natural magical inclination, who was obsessed with recreating magic through science. He was a recurring antagonist throughout much of the campaign. When he was finally defeated, it was in his workshop and it was filled with wondrous mechanical machinations and clockwork automatons and equipment far beyond anyone else in the world. There were also horrific blends of mutilated corpses fitted with machinery and, in the last few months of the game he'd made a pact with a demon and had begun intertwining magic into the mix to create a bunch of really cool and disgusting stuff.

They took some awesome loot and his journal and left. His journal was written in code and they needed someone to decipher it. Now here's what should have happened...

They get it deciphered. They learn he had visited this massive underground city filled with sentient and living mechanical beings, and that this all spurred his fascination with machinery. The location is in the journal so they decide to go there and check it out. This city had dozens of unique NPCs and quests and stories for them to find, and more importantly they could potentially be their most useful ally in the main quest of the campaign.

What really happened...

They threw the book in a fire and left.

>> No.52028648

>>52028461
>>52028576
That doesn't sound much like fifth edition... How do monster races look like statwise?

>> No.52028659

>>52028648
Horrendous, probably.

>> No.52028661

>>52028633
Honestly could you blame them? I would've done the same thing. Toss the book in the fire and hope no one ever gets curious enough to recreate the same horror-tech the mad scientist. Sometimes, some tech is just better off lost and forgotten.

>> No.52028675

>>52028648
The same? Why?

>> No.52028676

>>52028435
Not playing your GWM + Lucky Goliath Barbarian with oversized weapons.

Anon get to it!

>> No.52028726

>>52028676
>playing barbarian ever

>> No.52028746

>>52028675
>The same?
same as what?

>> No.52028758

>>52028726
Fighters work well as well, but totems work really well with this.

>> No.52028774

>>52028661
>Honestly could you blame them?
Not one bit. They definitely did the smart thing, which is surprising since this is the same party that summoned a demon because one of them misread a nod.

>> No.52028778

>>52028676
>oversized weapons
That's not a thing anymore buddy.

>> No.52028793

>>52028774
>misread a nod
Under what circumstance did a nod ever mean "Let's summon a demon"?

>> No.52028826

>>52028423
Be small, make Minor Illusions and hide completely inside them

>> No.52028833

>>52028778
You mean the part in the PHB talking about how you have disadvantage with weapons sized for a larger creature isn't actually in the PHB?

>> No.52028879

>>52028458

Because that's not how Foresight works.

>> No.52028884

>>52028758
I just play full caster these days. Because for some reason, no matter which play group I go to in my area, they all suck cock at playing casters. All I see are full damage wizards, sorcerers or warlocks with insanely redundant spell selection, healbot bards, clerics or druids. I honestly blame wow for this shit.

>> No.52028909

>>52028833
DMG actually.
And that restriction is so bad that it may as well not exist anyway.

>> No.52028923

>>52028884
What's the optimal spell selection for a caster in order to render the rest of your party redundant then?

>> No.52028925

>>52028909
How is it bad?

>> No.52028939

>>52028925
Are you asking me why having disadvantage on every attack you make is bad?

>> No.52028945

>>52028909
Protip: Reckless Attack every turn to negate the disadvantage. Live wild.

>> No.52028955

>>52028939
>>52028945

>> No.52028962

>>52028939

With no bonus for it being bigger, no less.

>> No.52028969

>>52028945
Or you could use a normal weapon and have advantage instead. That's kind of a lot better.

>> No.52028975

>>52028962
You get double the damage dice.

>> No.52028986

>>52028969
Sounds like you don't understand the true spirit of a barbarian.

>> No.52028990

>>52028793
A large chunk of the party was on trial for trespassing and assault. The Bard acted as their lawyer and the Warlock prepared a back-up plan in case they lost.

The Warlock contacted her patron for help and struck a bargain with it where she would summon him and he'd cause some chaos and have some fun for a little before they 'fought him back' so they could appear as heroes. My Warlock has done a lot in the service of her patron and the plan amused him (and me) enough to go along with it.

A nod meant things were going well, shaking her head meant they weren't. The warlock confused the two and summoned a demon

>> No.52028994

Let said a npc friend of my pc insulted a prideful dragonborn paladin by calling him a tailless lizard. Should I be worry about him?

>> No.52029001

>>52028969
>>52028939
Take the disadvantage and use Lucky. Or reckless attack.

>> No.52029005

>>52028969
Hmm. I could get advantage on a greatsword and do 2d6, or swing a Large greatsword for 4d6 normally. Either one works, really.

>> No.52029025

>>52028990
An honest mistake of course.

>> No.52029026

>>52029001
Barbarians usually make more than 3 attacks in a day you know.
>>52028986
You mean doing everything you can to get yourself killed as quickly as possible?

>> No.52029039

>>52029026
It's like you're willfully ignoring people telling you about reckless attack

>> No.52029049

>>52029026
>You mean doing everything you can to get yourself killed as quickly as possible?
And looking damn fine while doing it.

>> No.52029052

>>52028235
Martials aren't worthless, it's just you wont be dealing the damage you're asking to deal. I assume by rip and tear you mean utterly destroy enemies? Then no, you wont.
But if you mean cut them down in a 2 turns with a greataxe or something yeah, you will be able to given good stats.

>> No.52029053

>>52028228
How often do you get those?
That's why I'd call it situational. It has uses, sure, but it's situational because otherwise you're normally better off just chucking a load of damage at it.

Though I suppose 100 damage isn't so bad if something has resistance.

>>52027461
Yeah, that's fine enough.

>>52027516
>Just cast forcecage
You can cast forcecage and then do something else such as buff yourself with a concentration buff, then cast fireball or something to end the spell.

>Blink+Mirror image
Plus anything else you can manage to do with your several reactions and bonus actions and moves and object interactions. Though I'll admit making that work is hard.

>DM makes the environment and traps not matter in a level 17+ fight
Then they're honestly a boring DM.

>Just cast the wall then
Again, as with forcecage, it gives you time to do other things, too. You could just cast the spell, but you could also decide to waste a ton of spell slots for a final fight for some sort of burst where you set up all your buffs and such in a row.
I think that's what archmages do anyway, if I remember right. They don't get every level 9 spell, just time stop, so if they're not already prepared they can timestop to prepare themself.

>Minor illusion
Plenty. Wall in front of ally, any noise you need in anyone's voice you want ('Goblin: Retreat!'), maybe an illusionist wizard could cast an illusion box and make it real AND cast forcecage in a turn.

(Cont..)

>> No.52029066

>>52028975

Incorrect.

>DMG: Double the weapon dice if the creature is Large, triple the weapon dice if it's Huge, and quadruple the weapon dice if it's Gargantuan.
>if the creature is large
>PC is only ever medium

There's a reason why Powerful Build exists.

>> No.52029074

>>52028648
Any boons that would come from being monsterous (increased movespeed and mobility in general, better stats and language access) would come at the cost of being a large creature so you'd have to constantly be squeezing.

>> No.52029080

>>52029039
So you give up advantage to deal 1d12/2d6 extra damage? That's fucking horrible. You would be better off using GWM with advantage with a normal weapon.

>> No.52029086

>>52027516
>>52029053
Though the illusionist wizard has to make a spell more powerful than minor illusion to make it real. Most of those are concentration. Still, two groups of enemies immediately boxed off, then you can make an attack with a fireball as well or something.

>Poison an arrow
You poison an arrow while also doing everything else if it's a bonus action. This isn't 'I cast timestop to poison arrows', this is 'I cast timestop to cage these enemies, poison an arrow, cage those enemies, poison an arrow, poison another arrow, cast blink, poison another arrow, then fireball all the remaining enemies'
Timestop is a burst spell that's completely inefficient and unreliable but might show up for use if you know 100% what you're doing at some point. Most people are already probably struggling with a level 17 wizard's spell list.

>> No.52029090

>>52029074
>Large player characters
>A bad thing

>> No.52029099

>>52029053
>How often do you get those?

There's this one guy in my party that I really want to kill, so ... for me, enough.

>> No.52029117

>>52029066
Ah, so you're willfully interpreting the text in an oblique way to purposefully come to the wrong conclusion.

>> No.52029120

>>52027755
Already exists officially

http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/print/Skb9S83L8x?dialog=true

>> No.52029130

>>52029066
Also, that's not what Powerful Build does. This isn't 3.5.

>> No.52029134

>>52029117

No, I'm telling you how it properly works and you're ignoring it so you can continue to believe you're right.

>> No.52029148

>>52029130

Powerful Build gives you the benefit of a large creature's carrying capacity while avoiding to make the player large because being large changes its damage dice.

>> No.52029149

>>52029134
>Big monsters typically wield oversized weapons that deal extra dice of damage on a hit.
It specifically says the weapons themselves are dealing extra damage dice. It then goes on to explain how many extra damage dice it is based on the size of the creature intended to wield it.

>> No.52029158

>>52029099
Follow your dreams, anon.

>> No.52029160

>>52029066

Alternatively, you can use the Enlarge/Reduce rules

+/- 1d4 per size change

>> No.52029163

>>52029066
http://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/02/17/can-pc-races-powerful-build-be-interpreted-as-being-able-to-wield-weapons-made-for-large-creatures/

>> No.52029183

>>52029158

I got my Xavier Protocols down

>> No.52029190

Guys, how would I be able to build guts?
I just wanna be able to swing a sword bigger then me, I guess fighter/barbarian multiclass of some kind?

>> No.52029192

>>52028923
Cleric
>Not turning all your spell slots into Cure Wounds
>Playstyle depending on domain
>Healing Word to get people up, don't use cure wounds in combat
>Spiritual Weapon
>Spirit Guardians
>Contagion (depends on what interpretation they use)
Druid
>Entangle
>Healing Word
>Conjure Animals
>Conjure Woodland Creatures (dependent on how many fucks dm gives)
>Polymorph
>Contagion
Wizard
>Don't need grab every damage spell you see
>Fog Cloud
>Sleep
>Magic Missile
>Flaming Sphere
>Pyrotechnics
>Suggestion
>Counterspell
>Haste
>Polymorph
>Evard's
>Fireball
>Wall of Force

>> No.52029196

>>52028180
The only ranger who gets an animal companion is the Beastmaster. Animal handling is a thing. And beastmaster is hot garbage outside of UA.

Favored enemy is also incredibly questionable.

Also if you want a spell-less ranger, just take the "spells" that are obviously buffs to ranger abilities like hunter's mark. That's it. There's no need to throw a gasket over it considering a lot of the Ranger unique spells are literally pulled from 4e abilities.

>> No.52029204

>>52029192
>all those Wizard spells
>no Slow
Nigger what is wrong with you
Surely this is an oversight

>> No.52029207

>>52029190

Please, don't.

I am begging you. No animu shit on D&D

>> No.52029223

>>52029190
2 levels of barbarian for reckless attack is the best way to offset the disadvantage from using oversized weapons. Or you might just want to talk to your DM if the oversize weapon rules are too annoying to actually play with.
>>52029207
Berserk gets a pass.

>> No.52029232

>>52029196
>playing a Dwarven Shadow Monk
>jacked an orc's Axebeak from one of the early fights in STK
>have been riding and training it the rest of the time
>beat up some Earth Cultists from PotA and stole their stone breastplates
>had our Cleric Stone Shape the breastplates into Axebeak Barding
fuck being a ranger and fuck animal handling, just be bros with an animal

>> No.52029252

>>52028438
>circle of power + enhance ability
That's two concentration spells

>forcecage
What is the benefit of timestop there ?

>spiritual weapon
>buff yourself with with non con spells
yawn.jpg

Would you use your 9th level slot for this ?

>> No.52029256

>>52029207
Toku shit's okay though, right?

>> No.52029260

>>52029207
It's not because of the animu. It's because I like the concept of a guy who swings a fucking massive sword.
>>52029223
I was thinking maybe asking him about the great weapons feat, which we could rework to let me use it without disadvantage?
Thanks for the reckless attack part, forgot about it and was only thinking about rage

>> No.52029275

>>52028258
Compulsory feats are something that has existed since feats came into play. It's not as bad off as it used to be, so it's not the main problem of the edition.

Again, easy fix: All weapons have part of a previously compulsory (or non-compulsory) feat attached to them to make them better. However, you can no longer get those feats.
All no-feater martials are buffed, all feater martials are nerfed, and everybody can stop wasting ASIs on compulsory feats and have fun instead.

>>52028291
>>52028301
>Ha ha why would you ever take PAM over +2 strength?

>> No.52029278

Do you support racial limits to classes?

Anything from only elves can be bladesingers, or that one shitposter a while back who thought dwarves should be banned from playing rogues.

>> No.52029286

>>52029223
>Berserk gets a pass.

You'd think that. And maybe if you talk to the DM in session 0 to see if it makes sense or something, it could even be so.


But I actually have seen a couple of "Gutz" at my tables and it's always not made me not want to blow my brains out

>>52029260

Oh. Ok then, you have a dozen options.

>> No.52029296

>>52029256
Full Plate, EK with magic lighter that gives an extra 5-foot range increase on green-flame blade.

>> No.52029299

>>52029163
>see
>>52029148

>> No.52029302

>>52029192
What about sorcerer?

>> No.52029309

>>52029232
Non-beastmaster ranger do have the benefit of being able to talk to animals in the first place but yeah. At this point I think to add insult to injury, just about every wannabe ranger archetype they made for fighter and rogue is also better at skill monkeying (both AA and Scout get bonus skills)

>>52028258
>Friendly reminder that weapon specialization is what's wrong with AD&D

>> No.52029311

>>52029252

You know what, I thought Cicle of Power wasn't concentration. My bad

I supose you could use it to get a minute casting time spells have a d4+1 rounds shaved off from it.

>> No.52029321

>>52029286
I'm probably gonna DM my next games anyway, so if i ever get out of it I'll use it.
Or I'll use him as a low level DMPC for a session or two

>> No.52029338

>>52029278
>rogues
Rogue, Fighter and Cleric were the universal classes since racial classes stopped being a thing, so no, that's retarded.

I wouldn't enforce racial limits too hard for players, but I would definitely try to see what they want out of a class that in the game world is mostly restricted to one or two races among NPCs when they're not rolling said race.

>> No.52029368

How often do you play up your classes abilities? I love to describe the spells my casters class as magic circles, the colors and the sizes as my character casts their spells. It's fun.

>> No.52029376

>>52029278
One class per subrace. All high elves are wizards, all wood elves are rangers, all half orcs are barbarians.

>> No.52029383

>>52029163
http://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/07/16/is-there-a-goliath-sized-two-handed-sword-and-what-its-stats-would-be/ tl;dr just fluff the big weapon to +1

>> No.52029387

>>52028746
>same as what?

The same stats as everything else in the MM book.

>> No.52029390

>>52029321

The common take I see for Guts is the Half Orc Champion fighter, (for maximum creetz) but I don't recommend it for a long play

>> No.52029406

>>52029278
There's already soft-limits to classes by having half-orcs have mostly melee benefits, for example.

You don't see half-orc wizards often because they don't get a plus to intellect.

That's good enough for me.

The only exception is if something has a specific restriction to a suboptimal race, i.e. 'This subrace can only be played by a half-orc even though it's a wizard archetype', but none of those really exist except slightly with bladesinger though elves aren't exactly bad for that.
I'd enforce elves-only on bladesinger just because I fucking hate it.

>> No.52029446

>>52029278
>dwarves should be banned from playing the class that embodies conniving greed

>> No.52029449

New player here. I'm supposed to be taking part in a 5e campaign soon. I've been looking at class choices and trying to see what would be the best way to do a swordmage of some sort. The Bladesinger wizard from SCAG looks pretty nifty.

Is the Bladesinger stuff good, or is it just a gimmick? I don't really need to be the best melee fighter around AND throw out all the spells, but I'd like to be competent at both, at least. Too many bad memories way back from 3e where I tried to play something like this and just ended up sucking at everything.

>> No.52029452

>>52026809
>Someone voted for Battlerager.

>> No.52029456 [DELETED] 

>>52029204
Slow is pretty good but it does compete with others for concentration and has a saving throw each round. But I've had slow outright end encounters before. It is a spell I could've put on that list along with animate objects
>>52029192
Magic Missiles
Scorching Ray
Haste
Fireball
Polymorph
My experience with sorcerer is pretty limited but the above are solid choices. Twin Haste/Polymorph, especially with a bunch of martials that generally comprise my parties. My metamagic choices tended to be Twin and Quicken. Telekinesis could be an interesting spell to pick up but I'm not sure how it interacts with twinning.

>> No.52029458

>>52029368
I declare in-world when I am using my combat superiority dice as a battlemaster fighter. Why? Because otherwise it just doesn't make sense. Why does my character have an ability that he can't really know when to use? He doesn't know that he has four superiority dice left, or what-not. I did the same thing in 4e. I always called out, in-character, that I had used all my daily powers and that we should rest. Because, after all, I am playing a spellcaster, and they know when they are out of spells. So it is only fair. The DM got really pissed at me but after I BTFO'd him in a debate on the subject, he let me stay in because otherwise he would have looked like a fucking asshole. Maybe some day I will play in a campaign that doesn't have dissociated resource mechanics, but until then, I will continue to play my character the way they should be played. There's a good lesson for game developers here: shit in, shit out.

>> No.52029459

>>52029456
Good luck doing anything but cheesing your way through STK without Slow. Hold Person doesn't work on everything, after all.

>> No.52029469

>>52029204
Slow is pretty good but it does compete with others for concentration and has a saving throw each round. But I've had slow outright end encounters before. It is a spell I could've put on that list along with animate objects
>>52029302
>Magic Missiles
>Scorching Ray
>Haste
>Fireball
>Polymorph
My experience with sorcerer is pretty limited but the above are solid choices. Twin Haste/Polymorph, especially with a bunch of martials that generally comprise my parties. My metamagic choices tended to be Twin and Quicken. Telekinesis could be an interesting spell to pick up but I'm not sure how it interacts with twinning.

>> No.52029500

>>52029390
>half orc
>guts
this is why they're doing it wrong.
I'll probably join some roll20 group and ask to play a human variant. It shouldn't be too hard to balance it and make it work long term.
>>52029406
I've played a halfling paladin with a greatsword, was it fun? Fuck yeah.
Did it feel weird? Yeah, the typical paladin is a 6ft gleaming plate warrior, not a kneecapping hobbit screaming and running at you.
And people mostly don't play races that don't make sense to them. Orcs are generally set up as not!tribal warring peoples, half-orcs usually given the same treatment. Naturally one would expect a shaman or something, but not a full blown wizard. Say a human for example, you could imagine anything from a bard to a paladin.

>> No.52029503

>>52029458
>I BTFO'd him
>this is what rules lawyers sincerely believe

>> No.52029505

>>52029458
Well, depends if you said IC "I'm out of superiority" or anything related meta, it's dumb shit.

If you said IC that "I'm getting tired, my head ain't working straight anymore", you're doing it right.

>> No.52029532

>>52029086
>I cast timestop to cage these enemies, poison an arrow, cage those enemies, poison an arrow, poison another arrow, cast blink, poison another arrow, then fireball all the remaining enemies
I think you reply boils down to this, tell me if it's not the case

You are casting cage timestopped enemy, that's not very useful.
Blink is just there cause you don't know what to do with your turns.
So it's forcage then fireball, the fireball only benefit from timestop if enemies would have spread while you cast forcecage

What if you had 5 turns ? Good luck finding something to after the 3rd. Poison some arrows maybe ?

Would you spend a 9th level slot for that ?

>> No.52029541

>>52029449
Eldritch Knight. If UA is an option Stone Sorcerer or Hexblade Pact of the Blade. If homebrew is an option I enjoy the Magus class.

>Bladesinger
IMO requires a really good set of HP rolls, a monk multiclass and high DEX, INT, and WIS. You can maybe make it work but I think Eldritch Knight would be a better and easier option.

>> No.52029542

>>52029505
>not telling your party you have expended your reserves of power for superior maneuvers for the time being

>> No.52029589

>>52029541
Stop trying to shill the magus
>look how awesome it is, I made a combat autist that has every good feature of every martial at level 3

>> No.52029598

>>52029311
>I supose you could use it to get a minute casting time spells have a d4+1 rounds shaved off from it.

Ok that's an actual use, you'd need to get lucky on the roll and be in a really make or break 'you need to perform the macguffin ritual' climax situation but that's an actual use.

>> No.52029602

>>52029505
No, because it's a stupid shit mechanic. Why do fighters have to use up imaginary bullshit metacurrency that I have to keep track of, just to do their cool shit? Whereas Wizards get the same thing, but with 10d6 fireballs and finger of death and shit. I mean, finger of death is utter boring shit because it is straight damage like everyone else in the party, but it is still better than a fucking fighter having to use up dice just to do his job.

No, fuck off, even the wizard gets infinite cantrips. I am sick to death of Merals and his bullshit. Second wind, bonus action, etc. are all non-features. They do not exist as features. A feature is something that benefits your character, not this cunt shit where I need to X a box on my character sheet, or layer dice all over it, just to play a goddamn fighter. There is nothing interesting about playing a 5e fighter except checking off boxes, to do what a fighter in 3.5 could do by default. Hell, I would rather play a 3.5 fighter in 5e with the fixed action economy, at least I would have more feats and ways to ACTUALLY CUSTOMIZE MY FUCKING CHARACTER. Hell, even if they are shit, at least I have options besides "pick one of these three pre-generated plot lines we chose for you because we are the developers and we can't balance the game for shit without reducing it to an overly-restrictive hugbox."

>> No.52029630

>>52029602
>I am too autistic to understand the concept of abstract mechanics to understand the ability to accomplish out of the ordinary feats

>Seriously shilling for the 3.5 fighter

>> No.52029637

>>52029500
>Greatsword
It feels kind of a shame to choose a suboptimal choice and then to not optimize it. Purposely picking something that you have disadvantage on rather than, say, quarterstaff+PAM+multiclass for shillelagh which would be entirely viable enough.

Though it sounds more of a support paladin than hitting things anyway.

If somebody wants to play a, say, half-orc wizard, they should at least pick good spells and such to counteract the negatives. I'd say it's a totally reasonable thing to do if you want to play a wizard but think you'll just outdo everybody else, so you take a suboptimal choice (Such as suboptimal race or suboptimal stat picks) to balance it out.

Unless your DM just said 'lol no disadvantage with greatsword because fun' in which case, fuck your fun, no fun allowed.

>> No.52029641

>>52029541
Yeah, that's exactly what I want to avoid. Overcomplicated charbuilding really isn't a good idea for the first time. Eldritch Knight is probably the simpler option, looking at them.

On a sidenote, how are bards? I might be down for something like that as well, since it seems to have versatility too.

>> No.52029647

>>52029602
play champion if battlemaster triggers your autism so hard

like holy shit it's a game. It's gonna have some janky rules to balance it out.

>> No.52029648

>>52029459
I haven't had the opportunity to play through skt yet. And I've already said that slow can just win an encounter pretty much outright

>> No.52029649

>>52029503
>greentext that second line
What did he mean by this ?

>> No.52029652

>>52029637
My dm let me use the holy object, being a necklace of bahamut in this case giving me strength which would allow me to strike harder then I would be as a normal halfling.

>> No.52029700

>>52029630
> abstract mechanics

are not the problem here. See hit points are abstract but are represented by a fighter knowing how much energy he has left, or how badly he is hurt.

>>52029647
>like holy shit it's a game. It's gonna have some janky rules to balance it out.

You are taking all the shit Merals feeds into your mouth and eating it right up. No, it doesn't need janky rules to be balanced. That's not a fucking excuse for turning fighters into the same boring-ass resource-management shit they were in 4e because Merals CANNOT do game balance between two distinct systems.

I don't know how anyone compares 5e to 3.5, because the only thing 5e has in common with 3.5 is the shitty vancian triangle casting, and hit dice. The rest is pure, rank, 4e shit. It is 50% 4e, minus the GOOD parts of 4e, with only the bad parts taken out.

The only thing that makes 5e good, is how simple and inoffensive it is.

D&D developers are pretending shit like Background mechanics are a good idea when they have already had their time and are being phased out in favor of better mechanics.

This game is bumbling around in the dark and has no idea what the fuck it's doing. It's surviving on its brand name only at this point.

>> No.52029707

>>52029641
Bards are the best! They can be solid choices for the spell blade class as they have a ton of versatile options. You can play a Valor Bard and get some solid melee damage off while still being a full caster with tons of options, and buffs. Or play a Lore Bard and do pretty much whatever you want.

>> No.52029723

>>52029449
The other archetypes are actually the gimmicky ones. They've got fun little abilities that can be used for some really niche stuff. They're super-focused and pretty funky.

Then you've got Bladesinger, which isn't a gimmick at all. It's all about negating the disadvantages that come from being a wizard and that's all it does. It's a simple, solid base for a class that is pretty good - but very fucking boring. You're swapping out all sorts of fun abilities associated with the various schools of magic for "I want to be able to do not-wizard stuff."

>> No.52029741

>>52029652
>Bahamut
I mean, aside from the 'Paladins aren't really holy guys' meme
>Bahamut
Fuck bahamut. I will make everything in the world bad just because he exists, I will blame it on him and even though that technically doesn't work I'll one day wish it works just to spite people and bahamut, because bahamut is an utter raging faggot. Fuck off with this 'I'm a big ancient powerful RAINBOW dragon, that transforms into a human and wanders around!' bullshit. This is worse than elves. Fuck, he's probably a raging homosexual faggot elf.

I am angry. Angry about Bahamut.
t. Angry dwarf.

>> No.52029742

>>52029707
That sounds pretty good! I also like the fact bards can throw bonuses around. Peope love getting bonuses.

Is there anything I should know about bards, or are they pretty much what they look like? I.E can I just roll one and play with the knowledge that I probably haven't fucked everything up already?

>> No.52029752

>>52029700
well I think it's fun, as does everyone I know. Soooo

>> No.52029765

>>52029446
If I recall, the shitposter though that rogues were actually undwarfy, that dwarven society had no thieves, and being a rogue necessarily made you a thief.

>> No.52029794

>>52029700
>abstraction is bad unless I say so
Also 3.5 was rank shit that even the devs had no idea what they had made. The FRCS is incredibly blatant about it.

>> No.52029795

>>52029449
Bladesinger is just a 'Get a load of AC as a wizard' gimmick. That's literally all it really does.

>Better con saves
>+10ft movement
>+lotsa AC
>+at-will damage sometimes

That's literally all it is.

As >>52029723 said it's about negates the disadvantages wizards have and it's all it does, and I don't like it because it's trying to keep all the advantages of being a wizard with none of the disadvantages.

However, if your DM allowed you to multiclass a level into fighter anyway, it's honestly not really a big deal because your DM is already letting you get heavy armour + shield with no problems just like that.

If your DM allows it, you can go ahead, I guess. It's not like it being pretty boring is going to impact your fun when you have so many spells to use anyway. But you're still a spellcaster before you're a melee dude, definitely.

>> No.52029800

>>52029741
>raging homosexual faggot elf.
Bahamut is a great guy anon I don't know what you're talking about h-haha

>> No.52029802 [DELETED] 

Homebrew class "Only as strong as the GM allows" is go.

Judging by other conjuration spells, spell level => CR is the standard, so that's what I went with. A contract summoner would have to be very RP-based, because a lot of their strength is reliant on what they can get to sign up for them. It'd probably start with weaklings like town guards, but could eventually hit the level of Hill Giants and Hydras.

The player/character would constantly be on the lookout for powerful NPCs or monsters, and coming up with ways to convince (or trick) them into lending their power. You could also probably recruit monsters who are on the verge of death in exchange for sparing them.

I know there's no such thing as a calligrapher's kit. idgaf.

>> No.52029809

>>52029800
What is this?

A 20 for ants?

>> No.52029829

>>52029752
Not an argument. Also, a mechanic being "fun" does not mean it is good. So, nothing about your post means anything.

>> No.52029831

>>52029602
For a battlemaster's maneuvers, it's pretty easy:

>tripping someone at range with a crossbow bolt, you're out of superiority die
Say: "I'm out of my fancy arrows, I need to take a bit to make some more".

>for melee maneuvers
Oh, look, it seems shoving that orc really pulled my hamstring, I need to take a while to recover.

I agree generally that the metacurrency design in 5e is really retarded, and preferred the old, always on superiority dice of the playtest fighter. But it isn't hard to convey that you're out of dice in a non meta way.

>> No.52029844

>>52029794
> well, I can't explain why battlemaster isn't a complete sack of shit
> or why fighters need to spend spell slots (yes, that is what second wind is, it is a magic spell, get the fuck over it) to do fighter things
> b-b-b-b-but, 3.5 was SHIT, yeah, fuck off loser! I bet you liked 3.5 so that makes your argument automatically WRONG

>> No.52029847

>>52029831
This, pretty much.

>> No.52029849

>>52029742
You should be okay it's kinda hard to mess up a bard. Don't forget to grab healing word and depending on what your bard college is, getting booming blade/Greenflame-Blade at level 6 or 10 is worth it.

>> No.52029851

noob here who rolled a sorcerer
obviously havent played a whole lot. what kinds of spells do you grab in early levels? i rolled a sorc and am probably the only caster

>> No.52029862

>>52029809
apologies, have a gif for the problem m'lord

>> No.52029871

>>52029741

>I will make everything in the world bad just because he exists
Wut?

>> No.52029872

>>52029802
Your pdf did the thing. It slided the spell list all the way down out of sight.

Homebrewery has some annoying bugs.

>> No.52029896

>>52029741
I can sympathize with this. I've been at tables where the Bahamut wank was fucking terrible

>> No.52029901

>>52029871
>angry mountain jews having any reasoning capabilities
really activates my almonds

>> No.52029904

>>52029851
You're an only caster and you picked the class that's the worst at doing the caster's magical utility jobs. Well done.

But, no, if you're new to 5e the sorcerer is a perfectly fine choice, possibly even better than going wizard.

Twinned spell is a must-have metamagic choice for once you get to there. Chromatic orb is probably good for the first few levels, shield is good to have, sleep too. Maybe thunderwave.

No, witchbolt is shit.

>> No.52029910

Does anyone know why the playtest fighter got gutted into the unplayable travesty it is today anyways?

>> No.52029917

>>52029765
>bards can't be lawful
>but rogues can

>> No.52029922

>>52029831
>Say: "I'm out of my fancy arrows, I need to take a bit to make some more".

So are these fancy arrows something you can buy? Also what are you buying in order to make them? And why can't a rogue do the same thing if he borrows some of the fancy arrows?

No, a fighter is just good at aiming for the legs. Why can't he do that more than a few times a day? Game balance, which is a bullshit reason for designing mechanics. Put another limitation on it, fuckers. It's not that hard, I've done similar mechanics in games I've made.

> Oh, look, it seems shoving that orc really pulled my hamstring, I need to take a while to recover.

Except why would that happen every time? Also surely there is a way of doing these maneuvers that doesn't involve injury. Fucking disarming someone isn't that exhausting.

> But it isn't hard to convey that you're out of dice in a non meta way.


It isn't hard to do, but if you do it, you are basically deepthroating Meral's shit-infested schlong. He has zero idea how to design games, even when he takes 2 extra years to do it. He panders to grogs who no longer even play D&D current edition, drags a few back who say they like it because it's simple, then they fuck off back to slashing naked medusas in Lamentations of the Flame Princess. So we are left with a shitty system with minimal feats and boring options for character builds. Power comes from customization and 5e's only customization is multiclassing, so of course the power-builds are multiclass. But instead of embracing this and trying to balance the game, they just neuter everything good about it, turn fighters into wizards, and shit it out saying "look how simple it is! oh and look at the pretty art! oooooh"

I play and enjoy 5e, by the way. It's not horrendous. But I will never take it seriously.

>> No.52029937

>>52029910
How was the Playtest fighter, anyways? Compare.

>> No.52029961

>>52029872
Aw shit. Thanks. Definitely didn't look like that in the preview.

>>52029802
>fixed version

>> No.52029970

>>52029937
Basically all versions of the playtest fighter got maneuvers that could be used once per round. You had a martial dice, which could be expended to add bonuses to attack or defense, and interact with opponents in tactically interesting ways.

It was a good system, that eventually became the "you can be tactically cool and strategic, but only 4 times an hour" that the battlemaster is today, and which >>52029922 is complaining about.

>> No.52029986

>>52029970
Oh, if it wasn't clear, you could spend your martial dice once per round, as a reaction or action. You got it back when you started your next turn.

>> No.52030005

>>52029961
>>52029802
Just like all homebrew classes: pretty art and page design, shitty mechanics. 3/10

>> No.52030025

>>52029922
>So are these fancy arrows something you can buy? Also what are you buying in order to make them? And why can't a rogue do the same thing if he borrows some of the fancy arrows?
Trade Secret and lots of training is required to make them. Usually there are only enough of the required plants in an area to make 4 of them. He isn't about to tell the sneaky git how to.

>Except why would that happen every time? Also surely there is a way of doing these maneuvers that doesn't involve injury. Fucking disarming someone isn't that exhausting.

Anybody can disarm people. This is heroic disarming.

>> No.52030030

>>52029910
People who play casters only want the fun things on their classes. Only magic is allowed to be fun. Non-magical classes must not only be un-fun, but conform 100% to the rules of reality, where reality is defined as "whatever I think seems reasonable, not what is actually physically possible". That last part is important, because you wouldn't want martials running, jumping, or lifting as well as REAL WORLD HUMAN ATHLETES.
>this class's powers are too fantastic for what its supposed to be
>it should be more boring
>where are the penalties for wearing heavy armor
>can we get some more encumberance rules
>swinging a sword four times in six seconds is impossible, can we get rid of the capstone too
>knocking people back sounds like something only magic can do
>i just want a nice simple martial class, i don't want to be bogged down with mechanics and options, please force everyone else to be shit because I can't just ignore things I don't want to use

These are the fuckers who want you to take exhaustion and other penalties for sleeping in heavier armor. Martials are "too strong" in combat, so they need to be utterly helpless for a third of the day. H-hey, it's okay, it's balanced guys, my Wizard also can't cast spells while he's asleep, ha ha. Speaking of armor, does anyone else find it weird that plate mail doesn't reduce your jump distance? It's already way too high. That you don't need help getting on a horse? That's not scientifically accurate. Could we work some Dexterity save penalties in here, too? Armor is heavy. Maybe they should get exhaustion every five rounds they fight. It's only fair, that's how real physics works.

Now excuse me, I've got to make an infinitely large clone army of myself and fire Cone of Cold twice out of my magical unicorn mount's butthole.

>> No.52030053

>>52030030
This has been pure grade A autism, congrats.

You're fucking looking fondly at the 3.5 fighter while shitting on the 4e fighter as garbage ffs. You have no idea what fun is.

>> No.52030056

>>52029970
That does Sound pretty good, and I have to join you in wondering what they did with the system.

>> No.52030064

>>52029961
One thing that bothers me: Summoners are Int-casters? I know we need more int-reliant classes, because the ability is already suboptimal, but wouldn't Summoner be the DE FACTO Charisma-caster?

>> No.52030080

>>52030025
>This is heroic disarming.

Top kek. What's the fucking difference, jackass?

> Trade Secret and lots of training is required to make them.

Does it say this in the ability description? No, you're just making up bullshit to justify a bullshit mechanic. Meral's cock must feel real good in your mouth, huh? He loves good boys who justify his terrible game mechanics for him, Maybe he'll even let you taste his "action surge" one day if you apologist-proselytize for why rangers and monks are shit in 5e, too.

>> No.52030086

>>52030030
I'm curious, because I agree with a lot of the things you say, but not necessarily the way you're going about conveying them: What traits and features of the fighter class do you think are boring?

>> No.52030092

>>52030030
This is why you play with people who seem their characters as people who are essentially superheroes but are slowly rising up.
Like an actual hero? Hercules started out as a "human" (ignoring the godhood part but y'know) who had some special lineage, but he was still mortal. But he did shit noone else could do.
And thats why martials are only as gimped as the DM wants them to be, I've never enforced exhaustion to my players because it seems like bullshit that the wizard and slaughter a goblin tribe and take a nap, while the barbarian busts his ass.

>> No.52030100

>>52030053
>You're fucking looking fondly at the 3.5 fighter while shitting on the 4e fighter as garbage
How the fuck did you get that from the post? It's the opposite. The playtesters were all 3aboo casterfaggots who wanted every trace of 4E "can do cool shit" stripped from the class, because Fighters are SUPPOSED to say "i attack with my sword" every round and then sit in their little cuckchair for the rest of the game.

>> No.52030103

>>52030053
> 3.5 fighter

Let you pick from a variety of feats to customize your character. Power Attack and Combat Expertise let you nitpick numbers if you wanted to, and there wer loads of feats if you wanted to focus on weapon style or tactical set ups. Sure they were shit compared to casters but so was everything in 3.5.

> 4e

You can deal double damage once per day.

>> No.52030124

Have you guys played a Mystic? I need a new char for a 5 level game and thougt they looked kinda cool, liking the yedi thing. Are they worth it or are they just shit?

>> No.52030155

>>52030124
The current implementation is overpowered as fuck. If you're allowed to play it, by all means, but you will screw party balance by doing it, and hopefully teach your DM a valuable lesson.

>> No.52030177

>>52029970
So, realistically speaking, how unbalancing would it be if you actually changed it to this? Fighters just being able to do their cool stuff every turn?

>> No.52030178

>>52030005
Slot level => CR is the standard for conjuration spells. This just extends it beyond Beasts and Elementals to more intelligent things, assuming you can get them.
There's also the RP-heavy element of persuasion/deception in getting the creature to sign its name, and its feelings toward you actually mattering mechanically.

>>52030064
Yeah, I'm pretty torn on that. Mainly chose it because intelligence is lacking, and tried to tie it to the arcane knowledge needed to write the magical contracts. You'd probably still need some decent level of charisma for convincing the things you want the signatures of though.

>> No.52030179

>>52029449
Bladesingers are amazing, IF you have the stats for it. Kinda need 16 dex and 18 int before they are better than most. When they have 20 20 they are retardedly good. When i rolled 2 17´s i picked a mele wizard for fun since i had such good stats and then SCAG came out and now I do the most dmg and have the best spells in the team (cept for Smiting Locks) Its pretty Gish

>> No.52030191

>>52030124
The current iteration of the mystic, which reaches up to level 10, is pretty powerful. Within the next few weeks HAAHAHAHAHAno...no they won't deliver. they'll just dangle things before us to no resolution or payoff WoTC should be releasing a full 20 lvl Mystic with every subclass and discipline.

>> No.52030193

>>52030103
It is impossible to make a straight fighter that is interesting or fun in 3.5.

>> No.52030216

>>52030191
I felt like the one that allows you to get a +3/+3 weapon and smite looked a bit too good, so its considered OP by ppl?

>> No.52030226

>>52030193
Eh, not the anon in question but I've managed it with some combat form feats, remembering sense weakness exists, and toying around with a few AFCs.

Though they were still skill starved motherfuckers.

>> No.52030235

>>52030193
Complete bullshit argument because no matter what example I present, you will just say it is not "interesting" or "fun" in your shitty opinion.

However, I have dozens of options to customize my fighter in 3.5. In 5e, I have three.

>> No.52030238

>>52030216
Some builds are a bit over powered. We'll see how this is addressed in the next iteration.

>> No.52030243

>>52030177
Not unbalancing at all IMO. Casters already get cantrips they always have access to, with interesting effects. It would just be a matter of keeping the effects of the maneuvers in line with the effects of cantrips.

I'm working on it right now, and would appreciate any ideas.

>> No.52030251

>>52030086
If you want to do literally anything interesting with the Fighter, you take Battlemaster. That's because Battlemaster is the only archetype (not counting UA shit) that does something even remotely different from the base Fighter. It's still just tacking on little effects to "I hit the guy", but that's all they've fucking got.

Eldritch Knight? Fuck off. This is just a shit Fighter/Wizard multiclass. Not even that, since everyone and their brother is only ever taking Shield and Absorb Elements so they can do boring-ass Fighter things while taking less damage. There is no fantastic new playstyle opened up by this. And I don't want anyone to spew some shit about how LOL YOU CAN CAST HASTE ON YOURSELF, as if you're playing to level 13-14 and having an extra attack somehow makes the class fucking amazing now.

The class already gets "the most attacks", but at levels that most gameplay doesn't take place at. Fuck everyone who acts like Fighters are amazing because they can swing 3-4 times whereas everyone else is stuck at 2. Fighters attack the same amount as everyone else for the majority of the game and it's rare that anyone gets their third attack. Is that a fault of the mechanics? No, not really, but it's a reality of how the majority of tables want to start at low levels and campaigns either finish or groups combust before reaching the point where Fighter gets its ONE FUCKING TRICK, which is STILL "does the same thing it always does, but slightly more".

All martials but the Monk fall into this hole, because at least the Monk can run fast and go up walls or over lakes and jump far and not die when running off a cliff. Is that amazing? Not really. Spells would let you do that. But it's still fucking better than what the non-UA archetypes for the other martials do.

>> No.52030263

>>52030251
>That's because Battlemaster is the only archetype (not counting UA shit) that does something even remotely different from the base Fighter.

Eldritch knight exists, dumb fuck.

>> No.52030285

>>52030235
In 3.5 you would need to take like, 6 feats to be able to do what a battlemaster does at level 3. And battlemasters do it in a way that is less aggravating and actually worthwhile mechanically. The other 3.5 fighter options were static increases to attack and damage. And then there's the issue of them being far less interesting or fun relative to the other classes because the game was so wildly unbalanced. Awful game, awful class.

>> No.52030297

>>52030263
Man, if only you spent another five seconds reading, you would have known I preemptively called you a faggot and avoided making a fool of yourself.

EK is a shit archetype. It's not fun, it's not unique, it's not even GOOD for anything but tanking. Go sit on your greenflame blade.

>> No.52030300

>>52030178
>Slot level => CR is the standard for conjuration spells

True Polymorph as well can't "create" (object into creature) a thing with a CR greater than 9

>> No.52030302

How would you make a pyromancer in 5e?

>> No.52030322

>>52030302
light cleric
wizard or sorcerer with a lot of fire spells
take one of those sorcerer fire-themed archetypes maybe
honestly this is some basic shit anon c'mon

>> No.52030329

>>52030302
The pyromancer sorcerous origin, ya dingleberry.

>> No.52030364

>>52030285
Bitch, I need to take 3 feats in 3.5 just to do what any character can do at level 1 (move attack then move again). So that's not really a point.

> like, 6 feats

Well let's see. Disarming requires two (really, only one). Feinting? Two. Lunge and Goad were both singular feats in 3.5. Pushing, Sweeping, Tripping? All were just one feat. Oh unless you mean Whirlwind Attack, which is agreeably a shit feat. But other than that, nah. And so long as you are not trying to trip a fucking dragon and whining that it's hard to do, you can trip pretty effectively in 3.5. The consequences of tripping are shitty, but they are in 5e as well.

So, not an argument.

> And battlemasters do it in a way that is less aggravating and actually worthwhile mechanically.

The fuck does that even mean? Rolling opposed Strength is too much for your little pea brain?

> And then there's the issue of them being far less interesting or fun relative to the other classes because the game was so wildly unbalanced.

There are those subjective, baseless assertions again. You have no argument, please get the fuck out.

> . Awful game, awful class.

Same applies to 5e.

>> No.52030365

>>52030302
>>52030322
>>52030329
>not making a red dragonborn wizard that only takes flame related spells.
What are ya a bunch of fags?

>> No.52030368

>>52030251
>urrr EK is bad because it triggers my autism
You're in fucking denial if you think feats like PAM, GWM, Shield Master, Sharpshooter, Duel Wielder or Defensive Duelist aren't already mostly what the old feat chains were from the get go.

>> No.52030381

>>52030297
I didn't want to read the rest of your autistic rant. Who gives a fuck if it's unique? Sorry if you are too jaded to enjoy a spellcasting fighter. What exactly do you propose to make fighters "interesting" besides the stupid-ass Battlemaster resource management crap.

>> No.52030386

>>52030368
I haven't mentioned feat chains at all. Go argue with >>52030103. I'm >>52030030 and he ain't. Feat chains were stupid.

>> No.52030389

What would be a good build for a Dwarf Assassin? I'm torn between Rogue Assassin and a Fighter Sharpshooter.

Background wise, he's a dwarf who goes and resolves grudges that cannot be resolved by straight force. I dunno if I want him to be a stabbing or a "snipe with crossbow from bell-tower" assassin.

>> No.52030390

>>52030364
>10 levels' worth of feats to pull off what a BM does at level 3

>> No.52030411

>>52030381
EK isn't a spellcasting Fighter, it's a "use your reaction to take less damage" Fighter. Stop being a little shit.

>> No.52030427

>>52030389

Moutain Dorf gets bonus to Con and Wis me thinks. Both are good, important rogue stats

>> No.52030432

>>52030386
No one is even against your original post, but bitching about EK because you are butthurt about anything that can cast spells, is fucking retarded. Just because you were a bitch in 3.5 and played with munchkins doesn't mean you need to hate everything magical now. Stop.

>> No.52030437

Ended up a 90 yr old elf. How DOES elven adulthood work? Since physical maturity is the same as humans.

>> No.52030459

>>52030390
You learn THREE of those maneuvers at level 3, you retard. Read the fucking class. At least I can disarm WITHOUT a feat in 3.5, it's just unlikely to succeed.

>> No.52030461

>>52030389
Dwarves aren't allowed to play assassins.

You're allowed to play a cleric, paladin, barbarian, ranger, or fighter.

>> No.52030468

>>52030364
So those first two things are actually points against you so I don't know why you bothered. Also you forgot about needing combat expertise for several maneuver feats, a shit feat with an annoying requirement.

Have you read the rules for grappling? An opposed strength check is what it is in 5e, in 3.5 it was such a mess that no one bothered.

>fighters underpowered in 3.5
>subjective, baseless assertion
Maybe try playing the game you fucking idiot.

>> No.52030472

>>52030437
>How DOES elven adulthood work?
Tell us about how human adulthood works first

>> No.52030478

>>52030411
I had fun using Magic Missile instead of carrying a ranged weapon. How is that not a spellcasting fighter? it might be a shit build but that doesn't mean it's not something you can do.

>> No.52030479

>>52030389
Shadow Monk/Rogue.
>blanket the walls in silence
>teleport over to a dude
>shank him in the neck with advantage
>do a sick backflip and kick him off the wall
>jump after him, flutterkick onto his chest gracefully, stab him again
>teleport away and disappear into the countryside
>guards wander by and wonder what the fuck happened to Dorgrim

>> No.52030483

>>52030459
At level 3 you have 4 feats, and one of them has to go to Expertise. Meanwhile the Battlemaster is free to take a feat on top at level 3 which does a lot more than the old feat chains.

>> No.52030484

>>52030411
Only if you play them in an incredibly specific way. And are boring.

>> No.52030499

>>52030468
>An opposed strength check is what it is in 5e,

That's exactly what it was in 3.5, as well. Except you got a bonus attack because if someone drops their weapon and tries to grab you, they are liable to get stabbed. Are you telling me a fighter would let a commoner grab him without even getting in a single dagger stab.

And, fighters being underpowered in 3.5 may be true, but "less interesting" and "less fun" (which is what I quoted, not the bullshit you put in my mouth) is what I was calling out as subjective bullshit. Nice job trying to twist my words.

>> No.52030504

>>52030432
Tell us, Anon, is your ability to read things that aren't there just poor reading comprehension or are there voices in your head whispering to you?

>> No.52030525

>>52030484
This guy >>52030478 is literally the first person in any /5eg/ to ever say he cast Magic Missile as an EK. Every single other time, it's "but EK is great, you can get Shield and Absorb Elements if your DM allows other material like EE, it's super good!" or "yeah but you can Haste or Fireball once you get third level spells fucking never."

>> No.52030534

Can't we all just be friends, /5eg/?

>> No.52030542

>>52030472
You grow old, are forgotten by most people who knew you, then you die, then you're forgotten by everyone. There is absolutely no reason to ever feel shame in this life. Embrace the excitement and freedom that existential anonymity offers you.

>> No.52030554

>>52030534
Not until the last caster (and this includes paladins) are dead and buried for good.

>> No.52030557

>>52030483
> has to go to expertise

I can disarm without a feat in 3.5. I even have a decent chance of success. It's just a stupid idea because you end up getting the attack you gave up a round later as an AoO when he tries to pick up his weapon again. That was a problem with the consequences of disarming, not the 3.5 fighter.

> Meanwhile the Battlemaster is free to take a feat on top at level 3 which does a lot more than the old feat chains

Like what? What exact feats do you suggest I take? Also the feat comes at level 4 not level 3 unless they changed the rules in the past day or so.

>> No.52030572

>>52030499
The part you quoted was about how 3.5 was unbalanced and fighters were shit you nitwit. Learn to read.

While you're at it read the 3.5 grappling rules.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.html

>> No.52030576

>>52030365
>mfw sorcerers don't even have flaming sphere on their spell list

>> No.52030577

Is it possible to make a good survival-based adventure? Or is those "depends on the players if they're into it" like horror-based ones are?

My campaign has made a turn where an long running winter is taking over the world and my players have decided to seek refuge in one of the safe haven cities that have magic and tech that keep shit warm from the cold. They're like 2-3 months away from the place and my players seem to like the journey idea but I can't seem to think of an idea to give them agency in how they survive and still apply it to the rules. One of them is a big Minecraft nut so he's thinking of cutting down trees and making shit but I don't want it to be that simple. Any ideas? Can it work beyond "roll for survival" or other skill checks?

>> No.52030579

>>52030534
I enjoy shitstorms of arguing more than boring old "how is your campaign going?" posts I couldn't care less about.

>> No.52030581

Does anyone have the Monk Pacha Edit 'When the stunning strike hits just right'?

>> No.52030592

>>52030577
Using anything resembling the existing rules for that (where they exist) will be un-fun and require lots of bookkeeping. Best to come up with your own system.

>> No.52030613

>>52030579
Do you wanna help me work out the kinks in my setting backstory

>> No.52030615

>>52030557
Have you ever actually tried to do maneuvers without feats in 3.5? Do you love taking attacks of opportunity then wasting your turn for an attempt to do something far less practical than just attacking? Maybe actually play the game you're defending.

>> No.52030618

>>52030557
Fighters get their first feat at 3, moron

>> No.52030621

>>52030576
Just ask to DM if you can use it.
90% of the time when i ask for a spell with a good reason I get it unless i'm being a pretentious shit
>>52030577
Just watch a survival show for 40m, you'll see how much shit you really need to do to survive and get ideas.

>> No.52030632

Okay, in this hypothetical fighter fix I'm making, because I agree with the autist for the most part, should I touch champion fighter? Or should I leave it alone?

There seem to be good arguments for making it the containment class for people who enjoy simple gameplay.

>> No.52030633

>>52030572
Please link the exact post where I said that.

Oh, look, the grappling rules have base attack plus Strength, whereas 5e has Athletics (proficiency bonus which is the same fucking thing as base attack) plus Strength. Except you get an attack of opportunity as well, which makes sense because if someone tries to grab you you should have a chance to stop them. Oh, and size bonuses / penalties which make sense because it should be easy to grapple a goddamn fairy. I'm sorry if that's too many rules for you, go back to playing Dungeon World if you can't handle that. After all, in that game all you need to do is roll a 10+ and you can wrestle a dragon! Do you feel cool yet?

Yeah, fuck off.

>> No.52030659

>>52028004
Bear totem barbarian with GWM and either Tough to tank more or Mage Slayer to better deal with mages.

>> No.52030665

>>52030618
Please show me this because I don't believe you.

>> No.52030688

>>52030461
Who will stop me?

>>52030427
Good to know!

>>52030479
Sounds cool! What's a good level spread? Though I'd prefer him to be a grim motherfucker instead of a ninja

>> No.52030696

>>52030613
Sure I guess so.

>>52030615
"Shouldn't" =/= "can't", moron. Not much point to disarming

>> No.52030701

>>52030633
I linked the post you said that in the post you're responding to. Holy fuck you can't be real.

Also your chance to stop them from grabbing you is the strength check. No reason to have 3 different opportunities to stop it.

>> No.52030705

>>52030632
Just because you give someone more options doesn't mean they have to use them. If you want to play a Battlemaster and never utilize a maneuver, that's doable. If you want to play a Transmutation Wizard and never fuck around with transmuting objects or juggling your philosopher's stone, you can do that.

Go ahead and fix Champion. If there really exists a person that is too fucking stupid and confused by having more than one option at any time, they will just pick one anyway and keep at it. There's no point in trying to cater to them because they will be happy with whatever the first thing they can understand is.

>> No.52030710

>>52030665
Yeah, my bad, they just get feat 2 at 6 unlike everyone else.

That feat slot still goes to shit that's basically a whole feat chain at level 4.

>> No.52030720

>>52030696
Shouldn't effectively means can't if you will literally never do it. The only reason to do it is if you want to die. I'm not even kidding, the only time I ever tried to grapple in 3.5 was because I wanted my character to die.

>> No.52030724

>>52030688
>Who will stop me?

Nobody, but know that there are people on /tg/ who won't like it because you're contradicting their notions of what a dwarf society is, which of course, are set in stone.

>> No.52030735

>>52030701
I responded to a specific subsection of that post. I'm sorry if you can't even understand how quoting and English sentence structure works.

> Also your chance to stop them from grabbing you is the strength check

Or, you know, I stab them and kill them first because they are opening themselves up to attack by grabbing me.

> . No reason to have 3 different opportunities to stop it.

Or, you know, because I can stab them and kill them before they can even grab me. Strength check is to see if they can maintain their hold.

>> No.52030738

>Muskets can be reloaded and fired in something like 12 seconds
How is this okay?

>> No.52030742

>>52030688
First level Rogue, then the rest Monk until you hit 6 (that's when you get your sweet teleport, but you can have fun with flurry of blows, bonus action dodge, slow fall, extra attack, and some minor spellcasting until then). Any levels beyond that into Rogue, but you might also want Monk 7 just for Evasion. See where your campaign is going when you get there, because most of them don't last much beyond that.

>> No.52030743

I'm thinking of going full anime, and while the Samurai archetype is pretty good for fighters, I'm thinking of homebrewing something for Iaijutsu specifically.

But the question remains whether I should actually make it a monastic tradition for monks or a martial archetype for fighters?

I'm thinking of silly things like giving EVEN MORE ATTACKS, delaying the damage until you sheathe your sword (with some benefits to that, of course) and other fun things like that.

So, is it basically a modified Kensei monk that specializes on swords, or a martial archetype with a weird niche.

I'm kind of leaning toward Monks, because they have unarmored defense, which is sufficiently anime for this. Also one million years of mastery and a blade folded one million times.

The thing is, I've already made two monk archetypes so I'd kind of be inclined to make a fighter archetype now.

>> No.52030756

>>52030710
ok that's what I thought, was wondering if my PHB PDF was somehow fucked up.

But, level 3, level 4. Not much difference.

>> No.52030759

>>52030738
Practice and superior Dwarven engineering.

>> No.52030772

>>52030738
How is this not. The prussian military did it, the french and british did it in 15 seconds, and the 5e musket is basically a flintlock; a matchlock or a wheellock would have a significantly bigger range and damage die.

Crossbows also reload in about a third the time it took irl because it's simpler to balance ranged attacks to do as much damage as melee.

>> No.52030787

>>52030759
>Practice and superior Dwarven engineering.
>dwarven
>engineering
Nobody gives a shit about your mining skills, hillbilly.

>> No.52030792

>>52030735
You are literally defending 3.5's awful mechanics for no reason other than they could possibly be logically justified.
Why?
You could just as easily say that your character is competent enough to try to grab someone without opening themselves up to an extra stabbing. The only reason to leave that in the game is to make maneuvers worse and martials less interesting.

>> No.52030808

>>52030720
>I can pretend words mean different things than I originally intended!

> the only time I ever tried to grapple in 3.5 was because I wanted my character to die.

Let me guess, you tried to grapple a dragon or something stupid like that, which doesn't happen even in fucking animes.

>> No.52030824

>>52030724
I actually considered him in terms of the more generic dwarf society, as well as taking inspiration from the Dark Souls College of Vinheim. After all, grudges must be resolved but you can't always march a big force in and kill them, as much as you'd like to.
So, you have a group of dwarves who are like sin-eaters. They take on the dishonor of deception and stealth. Nominally, they are members of guilds and clans, but they will never truly be inducted into the secrets of their people.

I imagine the character either being abandoned by his clan when he was captured, or failing to kill his quarry, so he cannot return to the hold.

>> No.52030831

>>52030808
>a hero should only have a chance of grappling a small, crippled child!

>> No.52030837

Anybody can share the playtest fighter? I'm considering replacing the current one with it. Is it really that better?

>> No.52030853

>>52030808
I tried to grapple a drow. The first and third time I got hit by the AoO, and the second time I failed the strength check.

Have you never heard someone say "you can't do that" when not referring something physically impossible? ESL anon?

>> No.52030854

>>52030792
>You could just as easily say that your character is competent enough to try to grab someone without opening themselves up to an extra stabbing.

That would be the improved grapple feat. Which also gives you a significant advantage on grappling, one size-category worth. Go ahead and bitch about that while your fighter has something like twenty feats.

> The only reason to leave that in the game is to make maneuvers worse and martials less interesting.

Nice strawman. It must be nice to be able to dismiss every contrary opinion with your fucking martial victim complex. Here's an idea: maybe I don't hate martials but I don't want to make the game a fucking hugbox for them to grapple dragons without effort. The reason martials suck in 3.5 is because wizards can fly and rape them with baleful polymorph or flesh-to-stone. Not because they have to deal with an AoO to be able to literally shut down an opponent with grappling.

>> No.52030867

>>52030302
Red / Gold Dragon sorcerer (race can be whatever but human works best) with as many fire spells as I could get and the elemental adept (fire) feat. If possible, try to get the alchemist jug and use the ale or oil you can get from it to fuel your fire attacks.

>> No.52030891

>>52030831
You're such a moron it's unbelievable. So if I think it's ridiculous to be able to grapple a dragon Los Tiburnos style, that means that grappling has to suck entirely? No, fucker, I was implying it's stupid to expect to easily grapple things ten times larger than you and then whine about muh game balance when you can't do it. Do you get mad when you can't use your Stomp attack on a 20 foot tall giant, as well? or is literally ANYTHING that gets in the way of your precious martial abilities, just another example of the caster patriarchy oppressing you yet again?

Go fucking kill yourself, honestly. You are full of shit, you have no argument except "if you think this you support caster supremacy" which is a load of bullshit. I don't even like playing spellcasters.

>> No.52030902

I'm giving maneuvers to the main 3 fighter subclasses.

What are some ideas you have for maneuvers for Champion and Eldritch Knight?

How about additional maneuvers for Battlemaster?

>> No.52030914

>>52030891
The person who said they suicided with a grapple already stated it was a drow you fucking illiterate

>> No.52030924

>>52030853
Oh no you got hit by an AoO. Someone stabbed you with his rapier when you tried to grab him with your bare hands? The caster patriarchy strikes again! Apparently you should have listened in fighter school when they advised against grabbing enemies with your bare hands without, I dunno, special training of some sort?

> failed the Strength check

So you decided to try to wrestle with a warrior as a manlet, and failed? So you got bad luck? A bloo bloo. Grapple modifiers are pretty fairly balanced. The drow was either far stronger or higher level, which means he SHOULD have won. Sorry if grappling isn't equally valid as attacking with zero training and the ability to completely shut down someone's attacks. I guess everyone should be grappling since there's basically no fucking reason not to.

> Have you never heard someone say "you can't do that" when not referring something physically impossible?

No, because nobody says that except minmaxing fuckers who think that doing something that isn't mathematically the best option is physically impossible.

>> No.52030926

>>52030854
Yeah but why not just make it not trigger the AoO by default? The improved grapple feat could have done something else. Or why even have grappling as an option without the feat if it's literally never a good idea to use it?

How does 5e create a hugbox where you can grapple a dragon easily when it's literally impossible?

>> No.52030940

>>52030914
I'm talking to you, not them. Unless you are the same person.

>> No.52030944

>>52030389
Mountain dwarf rogue, wielding a light crossbow and Rapier. If you want a true assassin then I'd say assassin subclass and double your proficiency in stealth. Max Str instead of dex but get Dex to 14 for your breastplate armor and stealth. If possible get a cloak of elvenkind. The alert feat could also be good to help you go first in times you can't get the drop on your enemy.

>> No.52030950

>>52030924
I already told you I was grappling with the explicit intention of dying because I was aware of what an awful option it was. Keep up.
I was a fighter and the drow was just some goon in a group of 4.

>> No.52030962

>>52030867

Add the Red Dragon Mask, tinderstrike and maybe the staff of fire, and you have it pretty good.

>> No.52030972

>>52030940
The person who said they suicided with a grapple isn't me. I'm mocking your contention that grappling is feasible in 3.5 to the extent it is in 5th without blowing another wad of feats.

Try to keep up, this isn't two separate arguments about grappling, this is someone mocking your retarded arguments based on someone else pointing out the reality of grapple in 3.5

>> No.52030978

>>52030926
>The improved grapple feat could have done something else.

It does, it gives you a +4 grapple bonus.

>>52030950
>I already told you I was grappling with the explicit intention of dying

Then you have no one to blame but yourself. Don't pretend that grappling is a bad option when you suck at grappling as a character then chose to whinge and bitch when your 10 Strength level 1 fighter got BTFO wrestling with an elite drow.

>> No.52030981

I want to make a mounted character, size small.

AKA I want a small character, Gnome/Halfling, with a mount.

No UA, only released stuff. The obvious choices are Ranger or maybe Paladin (Find Steed), and going for a lance build.

Any good pointers for how to do this? I am also not sure if Mounted Combatant is worth going into.

I know Strength is probably my main stat here, maybe followed by Con/Dex?

I like the concept, just not sure how to properly pull it off.

>> No.52030991

>>52030962
>Add the Red Dragon Mask
>treating magic items like an all you can eat menu
>treating a legendary artifact like a part of said menu
Who let the threeaboos out of pfg

>> No.52031001

>grappling instead of using telekinesis
>how do martials even compete?

>> No.52031003

When you're creating npcs, do you just stat them the same way as PCs, or do you build them as monsters as per the guidelines in DMG? I'm starting a campaign, and I'm not sure how I should do it. Especially since the npcs in the Monster Manual are obviously built differently from PCs.

>> No.52031013

>>52030972
>this is someone mocking your retarded arguments based on someone else pointing out the reality of grapple in 3.5

The reality of grapple is, you get stabbed, then you can wrestle someone based on your Strength and level. That is how it is in 5e minus the getting stabbed part. And perhaps the size modifiers so you can wrestle ettins and feel cool for doing dumb-ass anime shit.

Literally the only thing you are on any grounds to complain about is the AoO. So when a commoner militiaman with decent strength grabs and grapples you and you have a dagger out and he has nothing in your hands, and you get pinned on the ground like a bitch when the DM rolls a nat 20, you have no right to complain. At all.

Unless that's just another example of the caster patriarchy in your mind. Martials don't suck, you just suck at being a martial, and expect stupid anime shit like wrestling dragons.

>> No.52031023

>>52030978
Pff, come on man.
You aren't even trying anymore.

>> No.52031040

>>52030991

>Play a serious committed campaign
>Roleplay well and put your heart into your shtick in a way that works
>Your DM doesn't award you a magic item on par with a reward for a level 8 campaign for it


Okay then

>> No.52031051

>>52030981
I've seen someone make a Halfling ranger beast master dual lances that rode a mastiff. I'm pretty sure it was bad but he did it and it sounded entertaining

>> No.52031057

>>52031013
Actually if the AoO hits the grapple attempt ends in 3.5. Maybe try reading the rules.

>> No.52031058

>>52031023
Then explain how that anon was at all treated unfairly. He got bad luck on the roll. If he and the drow were both the same level and had the same strength, their grappling bonuses would be the same. OP just lost the roll. Simple as that. The same thing could happen in D&D 5e.

That leaves the AoO. Sorry if trying to grab someone who has a weapon out means you get stabbed as you are grabbing at them. Ever been in an actual fight or tried to grab someone wielding a knife? Even with fucking black-belt martial arts training you have a very good chance of getting stabbed. But no, martials should be allowed to grab a guy with a knife with no risk of getting stabbed instead of simply attacking, because if martials can't do ridiculous sub-optimal bullshit, that is just another example of how casters are soooo overpowered.

>> No.52031074

>>52031057
Yeah, because if you try to grab someone and they stab you, they get time to get out of the way. Again, grabbing someone with your bare hands when they have a weapon out and ready, is a bad idea, unless you have special training in that. If you want all martials to have this, fine. But not all characters would have it.

>> No.52031079

>>52031040
>legendary artifact
>on par with level 8
You disgust me

>> No.52031080

>>52031001
Martial can tank far more for starters. Martial also don't lose concentration when hit by damage.

>> No.52031096

>>52031058
Your walls of text =/= effort. I mean really try come on. Maybe say something new for once or something. Hell you could actually try addressing people's arguments if you're feeling risky.

>> No.52031103

>>52031079

Black Dragon Mask is literally the L8 reward for HotDQ

You can pick that shit up and go play Storm King's Thunder

>> No.52031119

>>52031096
You don't have an argument besides "martials should be able to grapple with no recourse or retaliation because if they can't then that's just another example of casters getting all the good things, innit?"

There is no other argument. If there is, sum it up in your reply and I will address it.

>> No.52031142

>>52031103
But Hoard was garbage anon and shouldn't be used as an example for anything

>> No.52031152

>>52031079
>>52031103
And fun fact, you still get a legendary item at the end of SKT, a holy avenger that's in the treasure room of the blue dragon antagonist.

>> No.52031156

>>52031051
>>52030981
I would never suggest a mounted character who wasn't a paladin or Bard.

And honestly, fuck small, it takes away your key reason for being mounted from the feat, where you get advantage against smaller creatures (aka medium size).

I would personally take either a Paladin for a strength build with a Lance, or a Bard build for a ranged build.

Though to be quite honest, I would never NOT take Find Steed on a Bard. It is just far too good to pass up.

>> No.52031173

>>52031119
See there you go again, bringing up some shit no one was even talking about.
Just putting words in people's mouths just like every time you bring up grappling a dragon out of nowhere.
Enough of this.

>> No.52031198

>>52031173
>Just putting words in people's mouths just like every time you bring up grappling a dragon out of nowhere.

Then explain what the fuck you think the function of grappling is supposed to be in D&D. Because every time I come into these threads I see this "well grappling is bullshit in 3.5 because size modifiers make it impossible to grapple half of what my DM makes me fight" bullshit. When in reality. grappling in 3.5 is perfectly fair and balanced. It's just not the best option 99% of the time, because guess what, bare-handed wrestling is not a good idea 99% of the time in combat. Does that make combat boring? Fuck no. I've seen people build swashbuckler-buffing martials that can give bonuses and even critical hits to other players to use and provide support while basically stopping the rest of the party from being damaged. I've seen other games where martials could attempt special maneuvers with odd consequences. That's FAR more interesting than fucking grappling.

>> No.52031205

>>52029192
>no hypnotic pattern

How upsetting

>> No.52031218

>>52031198

>> No.52031240

>>52029278
Yeah, bladesingers as elf only is fine, especially given the flavor. Its okay if there's one or two subclasses that V-humans can't take.

>> No.52031247

>>52031218
what?

You know what, I'm done with this thread. None of you can even accentuate what exactly you think grappling is supposed to do. You just whinge and bitch about everything in 3.5 while pretending everything 5e does is great just because it removes all the restrictions on everything. Then call out anyone who wants restrictions or fairness on this bullshit as a fucking anti-fun caster supremacist. Neck yourselves.

>> No.52031262

>>52031247

>> No.52031296

>>52029602
entitlement mentality: the post

>> No.52031297

I play a level 5 protection battle master and I'm the main tank in my party. The only player who comes close for tanking is a druid.

Should I go for sentinel or shield master in a few levels, or something different?

Personally sentinel appeals to me the most, but I'm a little concerned about my vulnerability to magic attacks. I don't want to get blown to pieces and leave my squishy party open.

>> No.52031315

>>52031198
Grappling exists in games where the DM decides 'actually, this is more than just a walk-up and slugfest' where players sometimes have to stop someone from escaping.
Or, it exists to be combined with shove, or to drag someone into an area of effect. Or to drag them underwater.
Or, sometimes, you can just improvize stuff like 'Okay, I want to use this orc.. As a shield from the arrows being shot at me.'

A lot of the uses require your DM to stop being an idiot, but also require thought on the part of the players.

>> No.52031331

>>52031297
If you get sentinel, ask your DM if you can change your conflicting fighting style for +1 AC defense instead.

If your DM allows it, definitely go sentinel I suppose maybe.

>> No.52031332

>>52029278
I think having race specific archetypes (like the Bladesinger) is great. I wish there were a lot more.

>> No.52031338

>>52029795
I like how people are constantly masturbating over multiclassing, to the point that its a total fucking given for everyone but casters, but are horrified by the bladesinger.

Nigger just go life cleric 1

>> No.52031351

>>52031240
I like Bladesinger as the "you can get this as a non-elf if you REALLY put effort into it.

Like the guy who had given a Bard access to it - given some of the things the average party will do, it isn't unreasonable to allow a level 10+ party to impress a bunch of elves enough to learn a "lesser race" about the bladesinger style.

>> No.52031360

>>52029844
>there's an at will centered fighter, a short rest centered fighter, and a long rest centered fighter

>rather than take the fighter that's not about rests I will simply rage about the others

ok

>> No.52031371

>>52031338
That's exactly what I'm saying
Your DM shouldn't allow that in the first place, and thus that means bladesinger is just a work around the 'no one level dip for a ton of AC' rule but somehow even worse

>> No.52031393

>>52031205
I probably should've included Silent Image, Mage Armor, Find Familiar, Shield, Mirror Image, Misty Step, Major Image, Hypnotic Pattern, Bigby's hand and Animate Object. I just got lazy and assumed everyone would get the first half and just forgot to include the bottom half.

>> No.52031506

So I decided to go down the weapon list and think of a 'Okay, well, why don't we give each weapon a bonus?' idea to replace compulsory feats.
This is following off of a number of classes such as fighter having feats which are far too strong over, say, taking +2 strength and leave a big damage gap between the fighters just cruising along and the fighters hardcore optimizing themselves with feats.

But in the end, it's honestly just a clusterfuck and kinda enforces certain playstyles for certain weapons.

In any case, it's far too complicated for normal use.

So, honestly, I'm thinking of doing it as asking each player to suggest a mini-feat for each weapon they have, and then I balance it. I think that works best.
Each player would essentially have a 'fighting style' for their weapon, not necessarily as listed on the fighting styles. At least I can use this clusterfuck of a chart to roughly suggest ideas for weapon fighting styles.

>> No.52031509

The relentless feature doesn't work if battlemasters regenerate their superiority dice every turn. What would be a good replacement?

>> No.52031528

>>52031152
holy shit, FINALLY a printed adventure that has a holy avenger

not that I need permission but its a good milestone

>> No.52031544

>>52031296
"martials should be grateful they are even allowed to swing sticks": the post

>> No.52031556

>>52031360
Because that option shouldn't even exist, and also it is the most interesting one. Eldritch knight is barely even a fighter, more a duskblade reprint (yes I know EK was a 3.5 prestige class). Champion sucks. BM is actually interesting, and since Merals wants to shit on that he forces a resource management to make sure fighters have to give up things to be interesting.

>> No.52031572

>>52031371

>Your DM shouldn't allow that in the first place

If multiclassing is good for the goose, its good for the gander.

>somehow even worse

The bladesinger has great flavor and if anything gishes are more iconic than full casters.

Now tell me

>EK isn't a gish!
>Bladesinger isn't a gish!

I don't care. Don't like it, don't take it. Fucking Christ.

>> No.52031596

>>52031544
Not at all. The continuous whining, self pitying, woe is me, persecuted martial mentality is utterly pathetic.

>> No.52031606

>>52029207
>No over the top stuff in my pulp heroic fantasy game

>> No.52031611

>>52031572
Yes, sure, I'd let them get armour per level, maybe light armour the first level medium armour the next and heavy the third or something, but just a single level dip I'm not fond of.

I've seen it happen before, I've even done it myself as part of a character idea and when a cleric1/CasterX is put alongside a Caster(X+1) then unless the other caster manages to avoid being attacked all the time, I've found the massive boost in AC feels quite unfair. Only that every other level the other caster has a spell level higher.


The bladesinger is a really poor design in my eyes. It's amongst all sorts of flavourful and fun choices, yet it just comes in with a barrelful of flat bonuses to a bunch of stats with the purpose of making wizard into a hard-to-hit chucklefuck.

>> No.52031627

>>52031556
>Because that option shouldn't even exist

Of course it should. People are so fucking upset, and continuously being triggered, about resource management on martial characters that it shouldn't be something for everyone.

Just look at the butthurt, vengeful 3aboo in this thread for example.

>> No.52031661

>>52031611
>The bladesinger is a really poor design in my eyes.

The idea that the bladesinger is lacking in flavor compared to other specialists is a fucking absurdity.

It has flavor that *you* don't like.

>> No.52031665

What are the must-have spells for an Arcane Trickster?

>> No.52031677

>>52031331
I doubt that'd be allowed, since the general attitude in my group is that protection plus sentinel really just makes your reactions more varied. If a party member is struggling I can use protection to help prevent further damage. Or at the start of a fight I can use sentinel to make sure our enemies don't last long enough to get to that stage.

>> No.52031723

New thread lads >>52031717

>> No.52031761

>>52031677
Well, I think that's kind of dumb.

Protection feels like it becomes less relevant as the game goes on and there's more ways to disadvantage enemies, and enemies have more attacks in the first place.

If protection directly conflicts with something you already have, it becomes even more redundant when you could just have +1 AC or whatever.

All it's asking for is 'No, actually, I would have been a lot better off if I got a different fighting style in the first place and then got sentinel than to get sentinel after a directly conflicting fighting style'... Or something. It's not like the fighter's going to be overpowered.

>>52031661
The flavour is 'You dance a lot while also being a caster, so you get more speed and more AC'.
The flavour isn't so bad, but it's the mechanics that are ridiculous. It encourages the wizard to be an AC-stacking pile of chuckle(fuck) and that part of it is much more important than the level 6 extra attack, especially when you get GFB/BB to go alongside it.

It would've been much better if the bladesinger was focused on BB/GFB or melee spell attacks and got maybe a 'reaction to try to deflect a melee attack' to help their survivability instead, or something along those lines. Not just mini-haste.

>> No.52031776

>>52031761
I'll discuss it with him when the situation arises I guess, cheers

>> No.52031780

Does anyone know where I can find a good naval combat system? I'm looking to add some boat combat in one of my games but D&D as a whole lacks any interesting vehicle combat rule

>> No.52031795

>>52031142

Okay, fair, but how about The Holy Symbol of Ravenkind? That can be anywhere from 3 to 10

I'd feel pretty crummy not giving that to a Buffy type character

>> No.52031826

>>52031761
>The flavour is 'You dance a lot while also being a caster, so you get more speed and more AC'.

pretending to be retarded isn't helping your case anon

>> No.52031853

>>52031826
>Strawman
If you were reading, I said the flavour is actually okay, regardless of what I think it is, and that that's not the problem.
The problem is that the mechanics are a load of shit that can be amounted to
'You get AC for all fights where it's relevant'
'You do melee damage'
'You do more melee damage'
/end

>> No.52031889

New Thread!
>>52031717
>>52031717
>>52031717
>>52031717
>>52031717

>> No.52031895

>>52031853

A direct fucking quote is a strawman? Lets summarize your argument fairly.
>I don't like thing

>> No.52031901

>start a new campaign
>make a paladin
>roll stats and buff them, variant human
>19 str 17 con 18 cha, fuck yeah
>pick GWM
>pick vengeance
>hellyeahletsrock.jpg
>proceed to get dropped in literally every combat
>always go last because zero dex
>didn't really count, but the amount of hits taken feels like 17 ac is nothing
>hp burns crazy fast, have to spend lay on hands on myself to last more than two rounds and then still fucking drop
>channel is fucking useless because 1/day, and boss-types are either immune or succeed on their save
>three smites per fucking day, and two are spent on a buff so I don't get dropped first round
>the most damage on a smite was 7, fucking nothing on a 200 hp boss


Have I been tricked, /5eg/? Are paladins a meme? When will shit become good? I mean holy hell, but I was above zero hp longer even when I played obvious casters and was deliberately focused by savvy enemies.

>> No.52031942

>>52031901
>Rolled an 18 and 2 17s
Those awful smite rolls are just karma.

>> No.52032853

>>52031901
Currently playing a half orc vengeance paladin with no problems.

Either you suck or your DM is a dick.

>> No.52032855

>>52029458
>Not just saying "I'm out of bright ideas."
>Not treating your superiority dice as a stamina gauge.
>Etc etc.
Fucking shitposters. I wouldn't reply to one but we're past bump limit already.

>> No.52032907

>>52029532
End time stop with Evard's black tentacles, next round Mordenkainen's Faithful Hound, next round, the hound breaks timestop and you fireball, or whatever. I think. Or just cloudkill->forcecage.

>> No.52032943

>>52029602
>playing a 3.5 fighter in 5e.
>Take away all of your combat options.
>Now spend feats to get combat options everyone gets automatically in 5e.

>> No.52033094

>>52029741
>'I'm a big ancient powerful RAINBOW dragon
Dude, he's Platinum.

>> No.52033133

>>52029904
>Chromatic orb is probably good for the first few levels
>Chromatic orb at level 1.
No. Don't do this again.

>> No.52033194

>>52033133
Why?

>> No.52033215

I'm new to DND 5e and I killed two PC yesterday for the first time.

I have been DMing for my group of friends, which are also knew to this. We are playing Hoard of the dragon queen. It's a party of six people, a Necromancer, Ranger, Monk, Paladin, Fighter and Barbarian. they are in the dragon hatchery and they find a a chute that leads down. The party have disagreements on what to do (the fighter PC doesn't know how to roleplay), and The fighter announces he is going down the ladder. The party splits, the Necromancer and Ranger leave and go and explore other areas leaving the rest.

>> No.52033464

>>52030633
>Enemy attacks you. If this attack hits, you fail.
>You make an unarmed attack. If your attack misses, you fail.
>You make opposed checks. If your enemy outrolls you, you fail.
>This opposed check is based on str, size, and hit dice, which scale wildly out of proportion between PC fighters and NPC/monstrous enemies.
I didn't even have to re-read the grappling rules to know you got them wrong.

>> No.52033653

>>52033215

part 1 I'm on my phone but hopefully you enjoy

>The Monk, Barbarian, Fighter and Paladin see two medium sized humanoids at the bottom of the ladder
>They plan together that they will climb down, and the barbarian will jump attack at 10 ft.
>Make everyone roll stealth set the DC at 10, paladin gets a 6
>they start to climb down and the two humanoids hear them.
>Barbarian drops down to attack, everyone rolls initiative
>Two humanoids are berserkers and there is also the a Half Dragon Champion.
>Battle goes on for at least an hour, I was rolling high.
>Lots of PCs falling unconscious.
>Eventually two PC fall unconscious and both berserkers die.
>Paladin, Barbarian and Half Dragon Champion left
>Paladin tries to attack the HDC hits, the deals damage that brings the HDC down to 1 Health point.
>HDC turns attacks the paladin, paladin drops unconscious
>This is where shit gets fucky

>> No.52033692

>>52029090
Have fun with those squeezing rules.

>> No.52033700

>>52033653

part 2

>Barbarian turns, he is at 4 health points, decided to dash while raging action and climb back up the chute
>everyone gives him the Shiggy diggy look
>As a DM there is 3 Unconscious PC and the HDC
>Don't know what to do, so I roleplay the HDC
>"Some kind of Barbarian you are running away from a battle and not dying in glory! Now I'll kill your friends!"
>HDC stabs the paladin twice, paladin is at 2 saving throws and 2 fail throws
>Fighter and Monk make there death saving throws, fighter is conscious
>Barbarian while up in the other room drinks a health potion.
>Paladin rolls last death saving throw, gets a 5 dies and silence strikes the room.

>> No.52033706

>>52031506
Oh, cool, I was going to start detailing these and checking for balance issues between weapons. Not the assignments I would go with though, personally.

I was also debating on what the requirements would be to get these benefits. Maybe you have to be a certain class, have a certain proficiency, or maybe take a feat that unlocks all the benefits. For balance determination, I'm assuming the fighter would get the benefits for sure. I'll post rough drafts in the next thread.

>> No.52033793

>>52031901
>>channel is fucking useless because 1/day, and boss-types are either immune or succeed on their save
Don't you know you're supposed to use Vow of Enmity on the boss?

>> No.52033813

>>52033194
You have to have a 50 GP diamond to cast it. My party's sorcerer started with Disguise Self and Chromatic Orb. Didn't spend a spell slot until level 2.

>> No.52033818

First time GMing, my player wants to not give his character a backstory or background until later into the campaign, what do.

>> No.52034227

>>52033700

Part 3

>HDC stabs the Monk takes a fail, and attacks the fighter with advantage and misses.
>Barbarian climbs downs and rushes for an attack and misses.
>HDC hits Barbarian, takes damage still standing.
>Monk makes a saving throw nat 20 is conscious and Fighter drinks a health potion
>Barbarian decides to run away, reaction by HDC misses.
>HDC throws a spear at Barbarian, hits Barbarian falls unconscious.
>fighter tries to hit HDC with shocking grasp fails
>Monk stands up and barbarian rolls a 1 two fails
>HDC tries to hit Monk misses
>fighter tries to stand up, HDC gets a reaction hits fighter, falls unconscious.
>barbarian rolls last death saving throw, rolls a 9 PC dies.
>Fighter makes a death saving throw, Monk hits deals 4 dmg killing the HDC

;-------;

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