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[ERROR] No.51981802 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Caster Supremacy Edition

>New Unearthed Arcana: Traps Revisited

>Give feedback on the previous Unearthed Arcana:

>New Plane Shift: Kaladesh

>Official /5eg/ Mega Trove v4b

>Pastebin with resources and so on:


>Previous thread >>51975563
How many times have you played in games where the casters outshone the martials?

>> No.51981830

>How many times have you played in games where the casters outshone the martials?
I've never not.
Also, we already have a thread. >>51981678

>> No.51981837

This thread is 7 minutes late

>> No.51984589

This one should be kept alive for when the other hits b ump limit and falls off the board though so not bad on OP, still a faggot though.

>> No.51986843


>> No.51987312

Is there no art of hafling girls with groomed feet hair styled with clips or ribbons?

>> No.51987630

> /tg/ widely shills the new edition of D&D for being player friendly and simple
> goes out of its way to curate new players
> thinks 5e is a shining path to a new future for RPGs
> 90% of arguments for why it is good stem from "well it's not 3.5!"
> now, tabletop hobby is flooded with more roasties and normies than ever before
> dumb-ass mechanics pander to them
> the nat20 meme is in full force thanks to Critical Roll
> Cards Against Humanity has fueled this idea that the fun in gaming stems from ridiculous scenarios creating autistic laughter
> video games have also put the Chaotic Randumb mentality in these new players
> most of the girls don't even bother learning to play as they are there to soak up male attention from beta orbiters
> this is what /tg/ wants

I will never understand you people.

>> No.51987745

Fuck off, Virt.

>> No.51987843

I don't mind bringing new players into role-playing. That doesn't affect me at all.

What I would like is a system with "more" to it. 5e is shallow as a toilet, and has very little usable content.

>> No.51987970

>What I would like is a system with "more" to it.


1) get rid of the stupid "classes are for players only" and make the D&D a system instead of a game

2) rebalance damage so PvP is viable

3) Say that only classes grant feats, not monster HD (so 5e's awesome monster creation is preserved).

4) Reinstate 4e's 1/2 level as an incrementer for proficiency rather than 1/5th level bullshit. This maxes out at +12 which isn't even bad.

5) Give all classes a feat at level 4, 8, 12, 16, and 20.

6) Reinstate something similar to skill tricks for those shitty feats that don't provide good enough benefit. An example is minor feats where you can take two in place of a major feat. Or just cull the shitty feats.

7) Remove multiclass restrictions but discourage dipping.

8) Remove archetypes because they are over-templated bullshit. Or at the very least, heavily rework them, because the only archetype in the game that is at all good or cool or interesting is eldritch knight.

Bam. Solved. No more normalfags shitting up the hobby, and the game has depth and interest again. Merals wanted to rape the chargen game because he sucks at making characters so instead of balancing the game he turned it into restrictive nonsense. He'd rather the online discussion of 5e be "hey look at this EPICK natural 20 I rolled last night and I convinced Asmodeus to suck my dick adn the DM basically had to let it happen because I rolled a natural 20 or else I'm reporting him to the fun police" and "look at this bird race #58932 I homebrewed, let me know if it's balanced guise so I can put it up on DMs guild with the rest of the derivative unoriginal setting-dependent crap content on there."

Which is what happened. I hope WotC is happy.

>> No.51988005


>> No.51988336

Post hilarious character builds.

>> No.51988447


>> No.51988497

After Mystic, which class in D&D 5e should be revisited in an Unearthed Arcana first?


>> No.51988537


one of the best features of 5e is that optimization is generally very light, aside from multiclass shitters

NPCs can have class levels, retard.

Most nonclassed NPCs have about as much HP as a PC would have -- comparing casters vs casters, anyway. Archmages, mages, and drow mages all map to about what a PC would have.

>4) Reinstate 4e's 1/2 level as an incrementer for proficiency rather than 1/5th level bullshit


>Remove multiclass restrictions but discourage dipping.

why do you want to make multiclass even more broken, unfun, and 3e-like?

your advice is terrible

>> No.51988540

Oh man, I actually recognize this pasta.

>> No.51988576

>/5eg/ Discord server

>> No.51988587

Is it as cancerous as the /pfg/ one, with two autists arguing about roll20 vs map tools every day?

>> No.51988594

its worse

>> No.51988611

Last I heard, there was some trannie causing drama because the local beta population thought he was a real girl who might someday let them multiclass out of wizard.

>> No.51988641

>might someday let them multiclass out of wizard.

>> No.51988651

>might someday let them multiclass out of wizard

>> No.51988831

Fucking caster supremacy man

>> No.51988838

>Started too early
>Badly cropped anime OP image
>Casters vs martials opening question

This thread is cursed. Please never make another thread my man.

>> No.51988871

Most of the time it's casual shitposting but there's also good art/token/file troves, build talk, DM and lore ideas, etc. There was drama several weeks ago but the Discord has been around on /5eg/ for over a year now and is pretty solid imo

>> No.51988886

Hey, last thread the Unearthed Arcana link I sent wasn't working correctly for everyone.

I have the PDF, but it's 133MB, so no way I can upload it. So I found a version that's up.


It's all I have that i can share right now, I can make a MEGA with my PDF if this doesn't work. And if anyone knows or can contact MEGA anon, I think this would be useful to have.

>> No.51988919

>MC out of wizard

>> No.51988971

So, anyone else here watch Youtube RPs?

This one for 5e was pretty nice https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8--jm8Tn5U

>> No.51989122

Anyone have any good tutorials for making maps? Or some easy software to use?

Not looking to make some grand world map or anything, just the general region the players will be running around in.

>> No.51989181

All right /5eg/, I'm making a Revised Ranger with a RAW +35 to stealth while still with Pass Without Trace active. I can't seem to think of a fun conclave to choose for this one. Any advice?

Try Inkarnate. It's a rather handy tool that makes nice maps without too much effort.

>> No.51989225

>Literally cannot fail stealth checks against the entire monster manual.

Bounded accuracy was a mistake.

>> No.51989320

Trying to create a dungeon with a heavy focus on cooperation (more so than normal play) that eventually transitions into a hive mind effect. I've got a few planned important encounters within the dungeon, along with an important magical item for my players, but I'm having difficulty filling out rooms for the dungeon that fit the established themes.

Also, for the hive mind effect, I was thinking it would start with players being able to hear each others thoughts, then slowly they begin to accumulate their party members' abilities, starting out with low level stuff and going higher throughout. The downside is eventually one player's pain or afflictions start to hurt the others. This seem like a good idea, bad idea? Too easy to break (though my players are so new to D&D I doubt they'd do anything terrible here)? Too mundane?

>> No.51989405

add a rape scene

>> No.51989433

blame amateur hour UAshit not 5e

>> No.51989470

Wood elf, eagle totem barbarian, magic initiate (longstrider), mobile feat.
Maybe a dip into monk

>> No.51989484

Sorry, posted in the old thread.

What's the difference between optimizing and min-maxing?

>> No.51989488

None of those abilities are new.

>> No.51989493

It depends on the setting

>> No.51989515


>> No.51989518

Ignoring pass without trace (which is a concentration keyword spell), where is the +25 coming from?

>> No.51989521

Min-maxing improves one aspect to the detriment of others (minimizing one to maximize another), optimizing is more general character improvement

>> No.51989561

I'm tired of spamming Eldritch Blast every turn. I just wanted to play a dubious cultist that knows dark magic, why are Warlocks so fucking boring? I feel like a glorified archer! Do things get better as I level up?

>> No.51989597

How are necromancers in 5.0?

>> No.51989598

Should've gone wizard, fool

>> No.51989607

No, warlocks are definitely stealthy scout commandos. Think fantasy equivalent of a guy with nightvision goggles, a gun, and smoke grenades.

>> No.51989616

They're quite necromanty.

ou get some tougher skelly bros than if you're not a necromancer.

>> No.51989625

>Players make a deal with an evil Wizard to cure an incurable curse
>In exchange the Wizard demands they each deliver one rare and powerful magic artifact to him
>These can be either things they find that he takes a liking too
>Or specific items he asks them to find

It seemed like a good idea at the time. But I realized I've given myself a lot more work having to write sidequests for each item. Which will also distract from the main quest.

Not to mention objectively if they find anything good the evil Wizard will want it.

>> No.51989630

Extremely good, you can have a 100% effective char who does huge damage via nothing but Animate Dead.

At level 15, see if you can snag a Mummy Lord.

>> No.51989632

>Why are warlocks so fucking boring
Because most people go in expecting a them to be a weird variation on a full caster class, when in reality they have more in common with half-caster classes, in that they're mostly a dpr donkey class with some neat magical shit they can do on the side.

>> No.51989644


Is there an uncensored version of this? For research into the darker arts of course

>> No.51989646

If Optimization is saying "Let me up my Fighter's STR score to 18 by dropping INT to 14 and CHA to 14 as well," Min-Maxing is saying "Let me give my Fighter 18 STR, 20 DEX and CON to be the perfect tank, I'll just drop INT to 8, WIS to 7 and CHA to 2. Who needs them when I'm a tank?"

>> No.51989676

Buck-Satan's tumblr.

>> No.51989689


Excellent. Just what I wanted to hear.

>> No.51989741

yes, I unironically posted the picture solely that I could go right triangle thingy -> image search -> iqdb

>> No.51989808

Their stupid hide in plain sight ability, camouflage, whatever. That's another 10. Then 15 is just rogue multiclass and dexterity.

>> No.51989810


>> No.51989855

Making up a bunch of new stuff doesn't really seem necessary in this situation when you can just tell them about the Help action and encourage them to use it. The whole sharing abilities and damage thing sounds like it could be novel for an experienced group if done just right but too much for new players.

>> No.51989874


oh, well that's something the DM voluntarily and intentionally did to pour fire ants on his penis

>> No.51989888

So i want to run a campaign after Lost Mines of Phandelver. Which would be the best to hook onto?

>> No.51989925

Have them come across a Paladin who will help them lift the curses if they help him kill the Wizard.

>> No.51989929

Storm King's Thunder.

>> No.51989936


There are some bits either at the end of LMoP or at the start of Curse of Strahd that give tips on how to segue one into the other easily.

>> No.51989954

I'm already running that for another group and don't really want to run that again

>> No.51989975

Expertise was a mistake.

>> No.51989997

Why is the Berg of the Frost Giants so much smaller than the other giant lairs in SKT?

It's the one my players have chosen to take on and it seems to be a very odd combination of being super small but largely empty space with a lack of areas and rooms (some of the others have 30+ and the Berg barely scratches 20 with sub-areas included).

Also, does anyone have decent copies of the map of Svardborg? Seemingly all the other giant lairs are in Dragon+ (Lyn Armaal is in two separate issues for some reason) but Svardborg isn't.

>> No.51990007

What about a quick modification of Castle Spulzeer - it's relatively easy, most of the monsters fit, the main antagonists on the road are a vampire and bandits, at the castle it's a crazy battlemaster with a legendary axe, a bog standard lich, and a slightly beefier banshee (the Ravenloft campaign splat really needs to have Van Richten's type monster options), and it's one of the better 2e modules.

>> No.51990012

You asked what the best one was, not which would be most exciting for you.

I'd say Strahd would be a nice change of tone compared to SKT, you'd only have to beef up the encounters a little since a lot of them are dangerously tough already.

>> No.51990075

spoiler: the lich is a pretty nice guy

>> No.51990126

I don't mind the character design. In fact, outside the shallow combat applications, I think 5e character archetypes and design is superior to 4e.

When I say shallow, I mean combat in 5e lacks depth.

>> No.51990182

Then Veronica was Judas.

>> No.51990192

I recently remembered a 4e adventure I liked running but I can't remember the name of it. I figure someone might recognise it.

There's a big manor out of town and I think it's got Vampires, a hedge maze leading to the master Vampire, the ghost of the old owner in the study and the front door's guarded by some magic plant riddle thing.

It was a free adventure I downloaded maybe 4-5 years ago.

>> No.51990244


>When I say shallow, I mean combat in 5e lacks depth.

Just depends on how many options you use. As a fan of 5e Battlesystem (the When Armies Clash) it can be as involved as you want to be, and certainly can be more involved than 5e.

>> No.51990325

I too am posting here and in the Riverdale talkback thread.

>> No.51990512

What would the general reaction be if, instead of bumping extra attack
- Every class that gets extra attack instead gets double damage but still just one attack
- Fighters get a second attack as their third, that attack also does double damage at their fourth

>> No.51990523

Genuinely worse, famalam. More hits mean more modifiers, more chances to crit, and more triggers of on-hit effects.

>> No.51990539

What's the point?
Just means you have less options on how to split your attacks.
Congrats, fighters are now even worse at fighting groups.

>> No.51990547

I'm playing a Human Zealot Barbarian and I'm wondering how useless am I going to be out of combat? I have 5 skill proficiencies and zero class abilities that do anything outside of "murder people harder". I love the idea of the character but I am worried about that.

>> No.51990549

Not to mention just more things to affect combat in general. The extra damage will be wasted on a low health mob when you could have just killed it with a normal attack then attacked something else.

>> No.51990577

Have you considered just not having bad ideas?

>> No.51990579

You have high strength, and a lot of people don't bother buying mundane gear.
Carry as much adventuring gear as you can and be help solve problems.

>> No.51990588

spend a feat on skilled or ritual caster.

>> No.51990602

I'm going to be 8 STR Cleric.

Should I buy a mastiff and have it carry gears into dungeon with me?

>> No.51990619

So basically use the money I won't be spending on armour later on for loading up on pickaxes, battering rams and other tools like that? I do have a fuck huge carry weight.

My Human feat's GWM and I've only got 5 ASI and I'm going to need all of those to max Strength and Constitution. Plus we've got a Wizard and enough skills between us all.

I'll carry your shit senpai.

>> No.51990674

Spend all your gold on Alchemist's Fire and hire a bunch of peasants to follow you around and throw it. The magic of bounded accuracy will allow many of them to hit their targets.

>> No.51990692

I wouldn't say When Armies Clash fixes what I want. That's more for large scale battles, not the small scale tactical encounters that the typical adventure involves.

>> No.51990694

One of the big problems my group has is that only one player bought any gear and they only got the explorer's pack - it's not like they have a lack of money either, they all have 1,000s of GP and never bother buying anything except weapons or armour.
You want all the gear you can buy and carry.

>> No.51990702

Never really. I've seen games where casters were the primary source of damage but never a game where they outshines the martials in a significant way.

>> No.51990722

Why not a mule?

I didn't realize you could actually split beyond a point. Mainly it just bugs me that all you do with ranged is empty your quiver faster rather than hit harder, but I know for a lot of people the gamey solution is "just pretend the quiver is magic" because apparently resource management is bad.

>> No.51990731

Along this line: be a forge cleric, and transform the mineral content of the ground into coinage. You can then hire an army of peasants to throw rocks. The magic of bounded accuracy will allow them to hit, and deal a minimum of one damage to anything.

As a forge cleric, you can make 100 gold per short rest. That's 100 times what the average peasant makes in a day IIRC.

>> No.51990733

>You want all the gear you can buy and carry.
And then you want a horse to carry more gear than you can carry.

>> No.51990750

>As a forge cleric, you can make 100 gold per short rest.
>Thinking peasants are going to get themselves hired out for their normal disposable income, which means time away from the fields and no food on the table, adding to their future expenses.

>> No.51990776

Resource management is okay.
Ammo management in D&D is dumb for several reasons, including but not limited to:
>casters get infinite cantrips for free
>ammo is extremely cheap
>ammo is available in most locations
>ammo doesn't weigh much
>the cost of ammo means you can craft a ton of it in your downtime

>> No.51990795

And then you carry the horse just to show how tough you are

>> No.51990803

>>casters get infinite cantrips for free
I consider that one a mistake from the get go. Cantrips should have remained spells that can't rip.

>but I want to cast magic all the time
Then fucking play wow.

>> No.51990805

>per short rest

You can just take a short rest 16 times a day, sleeping for the rest of it.Set up a quarry outside the village, and keep digging with your magic power. In a day, you can generate enough gold to pay 100 peasants 16 times what they would earn normally in a day.

>> No.51990835

>play a character that's actually just a full time worker and doesn't adventure
5e is truly the game of kings

>> No.51990850

He pays the plebes to adventure, to kill the things he unleashed by digging too deep.

>> No.51990872

A lot of people say shit about it but we use Spellcasting Modifier X 5 Cantrips per short rest. It's enough that they don't have to really worry about it but it does come up sometimes.

>> No.51990876

The power of money >>>> any spell or feat


>> No.51990878

Is there a correlation between DnD players and TRPGs?

I've been introduced to Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones by a friend, and it's hitting the same itches I get when in a combat round.

>> No.51990899

When Armies Clash can have the entire party just be nestled into as little as 2 stands. Nothing about it has to involve unreasonable amounts of critters by D&D standards; at a minimum its just less polearm-centric D&D with greater stickiness, importance of positioning, on forced movement, and warlord stuff, plus built in cleaving.

Virtually every adventure works just fine with substituting the weakest creatures for a like number of stands.

>> No.51990920

I don't know for sure but I know that I play Fire Emblem for this exact reason - to scratch the itch while I'm DMing for long stretches of time.
Obviously I'm very thankful for the avatar character in Awakening since I get to pick a class and make a character, even if it is all pre-written.
And I know a few of my players play stuff like FE and Dragon Age Origins too.

>> No.51990921

End your life.

>> No.51990937

>mages get far fewer spells

>the spells they have are far weaker and usually can't completely disable the enemy

Spells/day isn't a problem in 3e or TSR editions, but that's because one spell neutralizes the enemy encounter. Sleep went from "wipes out 4d6 orcs, no save" to about 2d6 in 2e, 2d4 hd in 3e and a save, to 0-2 orcs in 5e with a save.

>> No.51990949

First time playing D&D5e. Roll up a Warlock (Great Old One - Pact of the Chain). Now at 7th level. I have two spell slots at 4th level. I have Agonizing blast, which does damage if my shitty rolls will let it hit.

Is a Warlock DPS or Support? I am slightly confused as to how my character ended up feeling so useless.

I have looked some "character optimization guides" but i figured i would ask you guys.

>> No.51990978

Hide in Plain Sight means you gotta stay still. I won't say it isn't broken, but that's a lot of stuff invested to not be seen. 20 Dex, Stealth expertise, Pass Without Trace active, and motionless camouflage.

>> No.51990979

Light DPS, scout, exploration.
They're a light scout class, optimal for campaigns in which you get an average of 8 short rests per adventure.

>> No.51990991

>Is a Warlock DPS or Support?

>> No.51990994

I'm actually okay with that. I would probably buff a few control spells but
- Actual slot-based combat spells are beefier than ever; Magic Missile starts at the same power as if it was cast by a level 5 mage in 2e
- A lot of the combat cantrips are overly powerful compared to actual levels combat spells
- If you take short rest recovery, Wizards and Land Druids still have more or less as many slots per day as they did in 2e.

>> No.51990997

Warlocks are a half-caster or third-caster class disguised as a full-caster.
You're a martial, but your bow is Eldritch Blast. Your couple of spells is just an occasional dressing. Try to get reusable Invocations like the at-will illusions which can be used in lots of interesting ways to keep yourself occupied between your pittance of actual spells.

>> No.51991000 [DELETED] 

why the fuck was my post calling this gross deleted

1984chan strikes again
challenge the janmans fetishes at your peril

>> No.51991003

Use spell slots for whatever is needed but your bread and butter is DPS from Eldritch Blast - like if you were playing an archer, hang back and shoot.

You get most of your non-combat stuff from Invocations and your Pact.

I'm not sure what your issue is. There's an Infernal Tome Warlock in my party, his EB damage is consistently good and his spell selection is generally useful for a party with no wizard or sorcerer.

>> No.51991049

>Get too invested in a character concept before game even starts
>Decide to branch out and try just make some other dudes to see if anything else feels right
>Nothing really sticking or clicking at all
>Need to keep myself flexible in case shit hits the fan
>Try to make characters in Heroforge
>Nothing turning out great
>Decide to make character I want to thinking it will look about the same and will get me in the mood to try other things
>It comes out looking great

Half-Orc Warlock it is. Damn. Time to worship an ancient whale.

>> No.51991139

There is a Monk/Sorcerer (Level6/1) who does all of the stealthing. Who is also an archer.

Then there is a Cleric/Fighter( Level6/1) who cares nothing for stealth probably because the Monk/Sorcerers spends to much with perception rolls.

The warlock has Spell attack bonus of +7. I still get shitty rolls so even with two beams of Agonizing blast i might not do anything for two rounds.

Of they are both elves too so they have low light vision. (or whatever it is called, forgive my ignorance)

>> No.51991148 [DELETED] 

>Actual slot-based combat spells are beefier than ever

Slight correction: Much weaker than ever.

>Magic Missile starts at the same power as if it was cast by a level 5 mage in 2e


AD&D orc: 4.5 hp
AD&D first level magic missile: 2.5
5e orc: 15 hp
5e magic missile: 7.5 damage.

Ignoring the fact that you have brain problems if you choose to prepare Magic Missile in AD&D at level 1, unless you have no choice.

>- A lot of the combat cantrips are overly powerful compared to actual levels combat spells

Magic users are pretty weak these days, to be sure.

Magic missile in AD&D serves the same purpose as cantrips do in 5e; at levels 1-4, its basically like darts (1.5 x 3) or daggers (2.5 x 2 but ready for melee), neither of which are actually "bad" per se. At higher level, though, Magic Missile becomes something possibly worth preparing, so you have a basic, single target effect.

Arcane Recovery is cool, though again, both in terms of control and damage, wizards are crazy weak these days -- not intrinsically a bad thing, due to their cantrips and hp, but quadratic damage progression and encounter wiping control effects are flat out better.

>> No.51991167

Warlocks when built right are support, with the highest damage cantrip in the game. Pick the at-will type invocations, that let you cast illusions and levitate.

Use your familiar to help. You can have an invisible imp, who can fly into someone's range, help action, giving you advantage on your next attack (or whoever you feel needs advantage), and then fly out quite safely.

>> No.51991190

>wizards are bad in 5e
when will this meme die

>> No.51991194

>Magic users are pretty weak these days, to be sure.

You have brain problems if you believe this. 5e, without a single doubt, is a caster's edition of DnD. The only difference between 5e and 3.5e in this regard is that martials can do about as much damage as casters now (on average. Higher single target, Significantly lower AoE).

>> No.51991208

>Actual slot-based combat spells are beefier than ever

Slight correction: Much weaker than ever.

>Magic Missile starts at the same power as if it was cast by a level 5 mage in 2e


AD&D orc: 4.5 hp
AD&D first level magic missile: 3.5
5e orc: 15 hp
5e magic missile: 10.5 damage.

Ignoring the fact that you have brain problems if you choose to prepare Magic Missile in AD&D at level 1, unless you have no choice.

>- A lot of the combat cantrips are overly powerful compared to actual levels combat spells

Magic users are pretty weak these days, to be sure.

Magic missile in AD&D serves the same purpose as cantrips do in 5e; at levels 1-4, its basically like darts (1.5 x 3) or daggers (2.5 x 2 but ready for melee), neither of which are actually "bad" per se. At higher level, though, Magic Missile becomes something possibly worth preparing, so you have a basic, single target effect.

Arcane Recovery is cool, though again, both in terms of control and damage, wizards are crazy weak these days -- not intrinsically a bad thing, due to their cantrips and hp, but quadratic damage progression and encounter wiping control effects are flat out better.

>> No.51991212

>5e is caster edition
5e casters are almost entirely flat out weaker than they were even in 2e except in that they get at will magic attacks rather than being down to a sling.

>> No.51991230

Basing it on orcs doesn't work because 5e's orc is a FR Orc. They're essentially mini-ogres.

Goblins and kobolds are more in-line with what they were in past editions.

>> No.51991243

It's time to stop.

>> No.51991261

I read somewhere that a warlock can cast on touch attacks if a familiar can on the target creature.

Is this true or just incorrect interpretation of the rules?

>> No.51991263

>one of the best features of 5e is that optimization is generally very light, aside from multiclass shitters

So, optimization isn't light at all. Lol. There is a lesson to be learned here about optimization and game design, but you won't learn it and neither will the Wizards of the Coast developers.

>> No.51991280

They're not, they're just weaker than ever before.

>without a single doubt, is a caster's edition of DnD.

Maybe, but far less so than in any prior edition. That's the part that's important to remember.

>The only difference between 5e and 3.5e in this regard


>> No.51991291

> damage


>> No.51991303

I don't think FR orcs have a different statblock in 2e. Are you thinking of Orogs?

>> No.51991306

>wizards are still the best
>they're just worse than they were before
You say that like it's bad or not deliberate

>> No.51991314

What about 4th? Everybody always forgets 4th.

>> No.51991324

>Wizards are the best if I assume that my DM is a little bitch who is just going to hand me new spells like candy and will pull punches on spells like wish and gate

>> No.51991370

...no, Wizards just have more capability than other classes.
Sorry you don't like that fact

>> No.51991383

Letting casters choose their own spells freely was a mistake.

>> No.51991384

Would argue that Bards are actually the best class in 5e, especially when taking all levels into account.

>> No.51991405

Could be, I know I like them both. It may not technically be tactical but I have heard a lot of good things about Divinity Original Sin and I'm curious to know if it's worth getting on console.

>> No.51991410

I'd say Bards are definitely up there, Lore ones especially so

>> No.51991421


>They're essentially mini-ogres.

Nah. Orcs are still the same they've always been, about half as dangerous (or HD wise, anyway) as a ghoul, and 1/4 the hp of an ogre. Unless you're going to tell me these aren't ghouls, but Faerunian Mega Ghoulz. Game with gnolls actually -- a little over twice the HD as an ogre, though.

Similarly, comparing orcs to guards is about the same as in AD&D -- 11 vs 15, likewise AD&D orcs were superior to level 0 types, they can't be dispatched en masse by fighters, and actually got a point of THAC0 and better saves in some progressions. Likewise, generally less favorable, mechanically, than half orcs (unlike in 3e).

>> No.51991424

I mean when they get 2 per level they're probably gonna get almost all the ones the really want at least.

>> No.51991429

IIRC, any character with a familiar may cast touch spells through the familiar.

>> No.51991439

Might be something about the newer editions defaulting to grid. I've been playing 2e for about ten years now, and I can't stand Tactical RPGs. Icewind Dale is much more my jam.

>> No.51991444


There's orcs, ogrillons, orogs, and my personal favorite, neo-orogs, red and black. Doubtless there are more.

>> No.51991465

I didn't forget, 4e has its own weird balancing system and no real mechanical milestones for comparison. They do get a bizarre amount of love though.

>> No.51991492

No idea how people can tell me wizards are "the best" when bards are fully available.

If its about straddling roles and both having lockdown spells and being able to dabble in other things, then no, wizards are not even close to being the best, and are 4th place 9/9 casters, just above sorcerer and just behind arcana clerics.

>> No.51991495

How do you cast Verbal spells underwater, /tg/?

>> No.51991503

How many points of interest on a map is too many?

>> No.51991524

One. Considering certain places more noteworthy than others is merely a limit of human perception.

>> No.51991531

Depends on how big the map is.

>> No.51991533


>> No.51991557

Well, that one's 5000x5000 and the scale is about 50 miles per 70 pixels. The width of the panhandle on Larento there in the middle is 100 miles, for instance.

>> No.51991566

Can't you cast an Air Bubble Spell, or something to that effect?

>> No.51991604

What's up with those african borders?

>> No.51991619

Portent simulacrums army
Abjuration is still better a counter spell war

>> No.51991634

Whaddya mean? The continent itself is supposed to be (not very vaguely) reminiscient of North America.

>> No.51991651

You don't. Get fucked, Wizards.

>> No.51991670


>> No.51991675

Nah the rules say you can as long as you can breathe underwater.

>> No.51991686


Cast water breathing as ritual first. Problem solve.

>> No.51991733

This really should be written somewhere on the rules, because I'm sure many DMs would rule otherwise. Nowhere does it say Water Breathing also means underwater talking.

>> No.51991758

It was probably errata'd and makes sense if you can breathe water as if it were air it makes sense to speak in it as if it were air even though water conducts sound better.

>> No.51991776

>specific points of interest
>on a map the size of a full continent

>> No.51991791


>Portent simulacrums army


>> No.51991818

>mass simulacrum
>muh raw, this is what the spell allows if you're too autistic to understand plain language and everything is a strange computer equation in your mind

>> No.51991827

Messing around with a homebrew class for fun.
>Frail summoner. Super weak on their own offensively and defensively.
>Has a book of contracts.
>Anything with INT 5+ that knows a language and signs its name on a contract volunteers to have a portion of its soul be used to help fuel summoning magic, hurting it with psychic damage whenever you cast.
>Doesn't need to understand what it's signing up for.
It should work out to be very RP-heavy, as the player would constantly have their eye out for strong NPCs or monsters they might convince to sign up--either through legit persuasion or underhanded deceit. Some might sign up willingly (if you're fighting for a noble cause they believe in, for example), while others might get manipulated or tricked into it (though summoning from a hostile host hurts the caster a little too). Can't wait to get dat PDF up and running so people can tell me it's just a shittier / fluffed-up Conjuration Wizard.
Also just for lulz, you can write over a contract in the book with Illusory Script to make it appear to say something completely different. Sign here, please.

Probably looks like Africa because of the Madagascar-looking place to the east,

>> No.51991858

Well, yeah. That's how it's supposed to work, ain't it?

>> No.51991875

If you duplicate a spell, you don't get to cherry pick which elements of the spell you duplicate, retard.

>> No.51991880

So with the Zealot Barbarian and my Damage Aura, do I roll damage once or roll it for each enemy next to me?

>> No.51991885


>> No.51991947

Roll once.

>> No.51992107

Literally nothing wrong with this except the names. Fetishization of "new and original" is just tiresome.

>> No.51992185

Bad for writing, great for tabletop.

>> No.51992188

You make fun of it, but I'd actually totally use this map, with different names. Would love to play in a campaign with that world map, too.

>> No.51992191


>> No.51992205

First, make it big enough for people to fucking see.

>> No.51992212


This is campaign dependant but you need both enough short rests to get more autoscaling mid level spells than normal and a pact keeper rod too put your save DC up above the curve.

>> No.51992235

Give me a morrowind over a sword coast, any day of the week.

>> No.51992298

>You can only take cleric spells after you take all of these thematic and useful domain spells that eat up half of your potential gain or less, got it?
>Features...uh...take cleric features
>Take some more, they're pretty good
>Fuck it, take the level 17 capstone at 14, nobody will notice

>Favored Soul v2
>Aight, it's not a gish anymore, but don't worry you'll be fine, have +1 hp
>And you can learn cleric spells! ...oh, the domains? We had to gut those, turns out according to the guide we wrote sorcerer can't get extra spells known. Gotta keep it balanced, you know. Don't worry about thematics, just grab healing at some point
>Oh, maybe it's a bit weak after all, what else for level 1...Probability manipulation? No sorcerers do that, right?
>Level 6, what to give you. What do other classes get at 6 again? Don't bards get 2 extra spells known? That's it! Like bards!
>You get expertise in cha skills and ya look pretty. You'll thank us.
>14! Big level, eh? Take immunity to poison and disease, on the house
>18! Capstone time! Amazing divine power! ...why not a once a day heal for like 50 hp that you have to be conscious and injured to use? DIVINE!

>Lore Wizard
>Hey wizard, you're the class that uses metamagic and spell mods right? Here, why not change damage type for free, spend spells to increase range to idunno a mile, do fuckextra damage, or make it harder to save against
>Or even creatively change the fundamental magic to alter the save type!
>Oh, and your flexible magic lets you copy other spells and change out your prepared spells on the fly!

I'm so tired of >>>>>Wizards cucking Sorcerers

>> No.51992304

Sounds neat as fuck but potentially imba

>> No.51992322

You can rip the maps out the pdf in the mega.

Fair warning, my players TPK'd in the Berg.

Don't be scared to run the easy Hill Giants first for a free level.

>> No.51992329

GM gave my monk a Ki Fis that fives my unarmed strikes and monk feature attacks +1 atk/dmg. Is that game breaking since no such item exists in 5e?

>> No.51992340

complaining about loremasters is old hat and I hate favored souls, whose sole purpose in fluff is to one up clerics

>> No.51992355

Its overly generous, and about on par with changing a sun blade in an adventure to a sun halberd or whatever; whether its favoritism depends on what other players get.

>> No.51992359

DM'ing a game for a bunch of new players. Wanted a map for a small area to send them on some adventures in and I'm going to add in a mine, some caves and etc later but for now is this good enough?

>> No.51992366

No. There's nothing wrong or game-breaking about "magical fistwraps" or anything like that. It is arguably game-fixing, actually.

Hoard of the Dragon Queen features a Wonderous Item called the Insignia of Claws that does about the same thing.

Dont be a twit, a +1 weapon isn't any more OP because it's on a fucking Monk instead of a Fighter or Paladin.

>> No.51992383

What's your opinion on the Searing Sunburst? 8d6 for 3 ki sounds cool but successul saves deql no damage

>> No.51992395


Looks fine. Almost anything works, honestly, so long as it looks decently attractive.

>> No.51992404

>game breaking
Not at all. Monks need some love, and actually one of the published adventures has an item that gives +1 to unarmed strikes and natural weapons.

>> No.51992406

Draw some mountains and rivers. They'll tell you where cities and borders should go.

>> No.51992411

>tfw Miracle + Vantage + Vengeance is the way to go

>> No.51992419

Monks can, you know, use magic weapons, and I said nothing about "OP."

>> No.51992432

Honestly Sun Soul doesn't get enough credit. It's pretty awesome to throw radiant deathballs at everyone and the AoE abilities are pretty good.

>> No.51992458

Thing about Sun Soul is I genuinely don't get what its "for." Flying shit, especially that which is resistant to nonmagical damage, I'm guessing.

Shadow demons are genuinely cool enough, unlike shadows, to be used as a staple enemy, so I'd definitely use plenty, which ought to keep a Sun Soul monk entertained, but I still don't see, other than those, what sort of situation makes the party go "glad I got this guy!"

Like for example, a roving invisible silencing teleporting scout for the shadow guys, and a quasi battlemaster for slippin people through your bonfires and pushing them back into webs and such for Open Hand, etc. And of course, knockdowns for advantage.

>> No.51992493

Yeah, could be over or underpowered based on the dm. Unwilling creatures could probably get their signature erased by having a cleric Remove Curse on them. I mainly just like the idea that YOU are the devil who goes around making magical deals with people.

>> No.51992512

Honestly it's not the best Monk. It gives up being good at a specific Monk thing like mobility with shadow, control with open hand and survival with long death. For something monks don't get.

The Sun Bolts are pretty gay but Burning Hands and Sunburst are there to give you some weird ranged capabilities against groups and you can still just Stunning strike spam when needed.

>> No.51992524

Thinking about rolling up a Paladin/Wild Mage Sorcerer. Would you let your player roll on the table when they use their smite?

>> No.51992543

>This is basically why I tend to stick my stories in small tribal regions with only a rough summary of neighboring countries besides immediate neighbors of the various petty kingdoms.

Sometimes I actually bother to have a world map in my head.

It's less wanting new and original and more "not wanting a blatant theme park." Mystara and to a lesser extent Birthright were the better generic fantasy AD&D settings for that kind of shit since they went heavy on the various cultures and regions.

>> No.51992563

I mean, you use a spell slot, so yes.

>> No.51992588


I think he means you have some organic borders to the east, and then arbitrarily boxy borders in the middle of the map.

Curvy, meandering borders are usually the result of following natural features of the land, like rivers, mountains, cliffs and the like. These are generally defensible regions for primitive armies. Alternatively, they're a result of border wars and claimed territory.

Geometric borders arise out of (inter)national cooperation and partitioning. The eastern US was partitioned by companies and charters under a single government. The middle and western states had their borders drawn around standardized townships as a result of the Land Ordinance of 1785, which is why they're angular. Towns were literally pre-planned boxes six miles square. Africa was partitioned by colonial powers after the continent had largely been mapped, but without regard to many natural land features or the pre-existing territories of the natives. Those original territories were curvy and organic, but were ignored and replaced.

So organic territorial lines are the result of conflicts and the presence of naturally defensible areas. Geometric territorial lines are the results of treaties and laws.

Whether you intended it to or not, your map tells a story of colonial conquest and westward expansion from the eastern horn. If that's unintentional, you might want to rethink things.

Also, your rivers are fucky. Remember the three rules of rivers:

1. Rivers very rarely fork. It's far more common that two rivers join.
2. Lakes can have multiple inputs, but almost always have one and only one output.
3. Water flows downhill. Duh. It comes from high altitudes, where snowpack will melt throughout the year to feed a river, or it collects from hundreds of smaller streams where localized patches of rainfall can feed into larger and larger flows. Rivers flow to sea level, and never increase in altitude.

>> No.51992596

>not a blatant theme park

Mystara is easily the most theme park official D&D setting. Check out where orcs, gnolls, trolls etc. live, its openly silly as fuck. Not to mention magic user land where all clerics are banned, etc.

>> No.51992604

I would probably let my player roll on the table if they just asked. It's fun, and IMO the vanilla mechanics don't let you roll enough.

>> No.51992606

See, that's what I was hoping, but it's not like you're casting a 1st level spell though.

>> No.51992640

It's definitely not RAW, but it sounds like fun, so if I ever see that at the table, I'll allow it.

>> No.51992722

After examining it closer:

1. I didn't catch that Burning Hands is cast as a bonus action, that's potentially good. So... at level 6, that's 2 bonus action Burning Hands that deal +4d6 per short rest. Decent damage spiking, at any rate.
2. At level 12, besides at will 2d6 radiance bursts, you can pump out 4 8d6 radiance bursts per short rest. These are anti-Con and at least not explicitly things that would trigger Magic Resistance, so there's a lot of things (chasmes, yugoloths, etc.) that have a good chance at being affected that would ignore fireballs.

Speaking of yugoloths, Sun Soul monks actually remind me of the rather badass 1e Arcanodaemon. Gigantic magic resistance, double digit caster level, nearly 100 hp (HUGE by 1e standards), psionics, but most intriguingly, 2d6/1d4/1d4+13 aoe Burning Hands. They have the "honor" of being one of the few monsters that deal less damage in 1e than in 5e (compare with the 1e chasme's weak ass 1-4 proboscis attack).

Then again, in 1e, its very hard to cast any spells while there's a horde of PCs likely focusing on you, while in 5e, its hard to prevent spellcasting altogether.

>> No.51992770

That puts an enormous amount of the power of the class directly in the hands of the DM. You could be much more powerful than a higher level, or much weaker than a lower level, depending on what the DM has had you non-hostily encounter.

Unless you state as a fact of leveling that you've gained the consent of XYZ monster at each level to summon it once per long rest, with a maximum number of summons available per long rest in total. And then you're just playing a pokemon master.

In either case it doesn't sound like the basis of a class. It sounds like the basis of a magic item a campaign arc may be focused around.

>> No.51992797

>whats your class?
why do people like homebrewed classes so much

>> No.51992811

Rarely, if ever only by accident. I've never had a DM that consistently followed the rules for spellcasting. Even if I read out aloud the spell description for each spell as I cast it, the DM ignores me and makes up their own interpretation of the spell. This has happened with every DM I've ever had going back to my first DM. I've pretty much given up and accepted this as the norm, even though I know anyone else would completely lose their shit.

>> No.51992820

Can you give an example? Because this >>51991619 is immediately what came to mind

>> No.51992831

Some people don't like the options presented in the PHB and feel that they're too limiting. At least that's what the middle-easterner that applied to my game with the VAMPIRE CLASS character from ELDER SCROLLS said.

>> No.51992870

Yeah that sounds like a shitty DM. Personally I prefer to stick as close to RAW (or RAI if RAW is too vague) when it comes to everything my players do, spells and otherwise. At the same time I'm also the DM that usually will ban out homebrew stuff because people can't homebrew for shit. Luckily though I DM in adventure league so I never have to worry about anyone asking to bring in homebrew stuff.

>> No.51992883

Right now the kensei monk in a party of monk/wizard/wizard/barbarian is pretty all-star, though he's getting a good boost from the other wizard and I'm trying to stay low-key unless otherwise necessary.

>> No.51992913

My first DM in AD&D made us roll for spellcasting failure on every spell, even though there shouldn't be any spellcasting failure. The Paladin's Protection from Evil gave him complete immunity from all things with an evil alignment, even though it should've only given a small bonus against certain creature types. My Control Flames spell caused an open fire to burn down a whole village and get me executed even though that's not what I wanted it to do. There are many more examples, but I can't remember them. My current DM in 5e ruled that my summoned creatures don't obey me even though it says it right in the spell description, but they'll obey my party members because they're not "abusive". Simulacrum can only duplicate a creature of CR 1 or lower because anything stronger than the Druid's animal companion is overpowered.

>> No.51992951

Simulacrum should be banned anyway. The rest sounds like trash though.

>> No.51993030

Only in a shitty homebrew clusterfuck. Maritals have good nova early on, and we don't play late enough to bend reality.

>> No.51993057

I was thinking World War Z / Generic zombie apocalypse might make a fun premise
>PCs are scavengers leaving the buffer zones in search of supplies and loot in the infected areas
>Buffer zones belong to the hobgoblins while the safe zones belong to the Dwarves in accordance with their contract
>The two towns nearest the buffer is a seaside gambling town and the other is a mages college

>> No.51993068

What'd you use to make the map anon?

>> No.51993073

Morrowind's visuals work really well for Darksun and deserts that were once seas. I used a lot of the "giant crab shells and elves" shit when I did Tartessian elves.

>> No.51993082

Inkarnate. It's a free online one that's really cool.

>> No.51993086

Jesus Christ. Though yeah, I know of nothing good possible to come of simulacrum.

>> No.51993095

Kensai are much better then they look at first glance. Especially after the confirmation they're meant to work with Martial Arts features.

>> No.51993269

Could you elaborate, please?

>> No.51993316

Greater detail
>Gambling Town:
the undead were incorporated into the fighting arenas, broke out of their prisons and infected the populace. Two rival groups of survivors prowl the streets: blue collar gladiators and a rich douchebag and his entourage
>Mage's College:
Everyone (committed suicide?) turned into ghosts and spirits to avoid getting zombified. A couple of cloistered mages are still alive and holed up with the laboratory equipment.

>> No.51993357

Not those dudes, but, Simulacrum is a spell that is ripe for game-breaking potential. It's hard to look at it and NOT carry it to the logical extreme.

>> No.51993375

For a single spell you can make another PC. Sure the time and money involved is annoying, but the actual effect of the spell is just so unbalanced that it should never be allowed. Even without trying to break it you basically double your effectiveness as long as the simulacrum is still alive.

>> No.51993382

I'm not really good at logic, so I see it and think of it as a semi-expensive temporary spare-dude generator or something to reduce the time that goes into making stuff.
Hm, yeah, but it's only temporary, and you'll be whittled down to cantrips before too long, right?

>> No.51993397

another idea i was toying around with is Black Manna as in Manna falling from the sky and feeding the holy lost in the desert
Black manna can satisfy the dead's need to feed on and kill the living for a short amount of time. Thus the more intelligent undead can be bribed.
Is anything I'm coming up with original?
I have a feeling it's been done before

>> No.51993419

Not any of them, but seriosuly, read the spell. There's nothing temporary, and if you're thinking it can't rest or whatever, there's nothing there that indicates anything like that.

>> No.51993421

Not them, but I can elaborate on the Simulacrum shenanigans.

Basically, you cast Simulacrum as a level 17+ wizard and make a copy of yourself. Make sure you know the wish spell and have it prepared. It makes a copy of you with all of your still available spell slots. The new Simulacrum uses wish to make another copy of the real you. That simulacrum has no wish now, but the new one has wish and so do you. Repeat until the DM literally is beating you with the DMG or summons 50 Tarasque to destroy the world. As per RAW, it is an infallible loop.

>> No.51993443

Also worth noting is that if you have access to wish you can use it to cast simulacrum to avoid the cost And I think it reduces the casting time from 12 hours to 1 action but I'm not sure.

>> No.51993448

Eh, that's a dick thing, I wouldn't do that anyway. I suppose it'll be something to work on in a future update.

>> No.51993457

For that to work the DM has to allow PC's to have Wish in their spellbook though. No DM worth his salt would allow that shit, unless it was a Very High Magic campaign.

>> No.51993468

You can choose two spells every time you level up buddy. Who wouldn't choose wish at level 17?
Unless you're just saying wish should be banned entirely, in which case you're no fun.

>> No.51993487

>Any "game-breaking strategy" that involves Wish
>A plan that isn't you bending over, spreading your cheeks and begging your DM to fuck you in the ass hard
Pick one and only one

>> No.51993488

Simulacrum lets you make virtually unlimited copies of everyone (3e and prior eds) or one copy of the best non caster in the party (5e). A champion or another self healing martial makes the ideal servant.

Non self healers, and spell users, are kind of ass, though they work.

It allows you to solve the question of "who's better, martials or casters?" by DUPLICATING A MARTIAL COMPLETELY.

Honestly I don't mind it too much, at least you're still acknowledging martials are grrrrrreat by duplicating one.

Don't have any reason to allow that interpretation.

Wish is 100% fine. The problem is not with Wish, but with Simulacrum.

>> No.51993523

No I'm saying I would rule that it'd be a major quest just to get one Scroll of Wish, and it's not a spell I'd let them record in their spellbook, in my view it's something that a Diety allows the caster or whomever to use their power to bend reality once, the spell and all knowledge of it save that it was used and the differences between before and after would remain in the party's memory.
Wish is still an issue, because if the caster has wish he can make a copy of himself ad infinitum with just wish, simulacrum is not necessary.

>> No.51993528

It is a dick thing. Lucky for me, my players are a bit too dull to pull off such a stunt. Also, I may have spoken out of term when I called it infallible. I just reread the spell, and I think things could become real interesting if the first simulacrum you create in the cycle dies. If that were to happen, you would have no control over any of them, since you only created the first one. The second one created would be in control of the third one and in turn giving him control of all of them. Plus it is as intelligent as the original wizard is and no where in the spell does it say they don't have free will or just stand idly by for instructions. I could see an epic tier campaign based around fixing the fuck up of your wizard buddy who decided to play god.

I will always allow wish, because no player I have ever met uses wish in a safe manner. Makes things a lot more fun and interesting.

>> No.51993532

>Wish is still an issue, because if the caster has wish he can make a copy of himself ad infinitum with just wish, simulacrum is not necessary.

Not at all. Each time, the caster has a 33% chance to FOREVER lose the Wish spell. No chance for abuse

>ad infinitum

You don't get to choose the part of the spell you duplicate... unless you wish for greater effect, in which case you court the DM abusing you and of course a good chance of FOREVER losing Wish.

>> No.51993543

I mean if you ban simulacrum, you're presumably also banning the ability to duplicate simulacrum.

And if you try to do anything not on the spell list, you're running some serious risks if you're DM even allows it to begin with.

>> No.51993552

I want to build a Cleric of Kord for my next game but the Cleric can't really do what I want him to do.

So I was thinking I had three options. Monk Cleric multiclass, Devotion Paladin maybe with Tavern Brawler or a Zealot Barbarian.

Which of these are the most effective and which of these are the most fun?

>> No.51993574

Well, a Scroll of Wish is a legendary item, so of course its a major find.

As is, Wish itself has no problems associated with its use.

>> No.51993597

What are you trying to accomplish with the character? Just be a lover of battle? Might want to go with the UA Forge Cleric for all sorts of goodies.

>> No.51993606

That's a 66% chance for abuse actually

>> No.51993607

> Each time, the caster has a 33% chance to FOREVER lose the Wish spell
Only if you do something beyond duplicating a spell
>You don't get to choose the part of the spell you duplicate
Yes you do

>> No.51993611

5e multiclassing is less "mandatory tool for optimization" and more "weird optional rule." Full paladin is probably better.

If you just want a guy that fucks shit up with his bare hands 24/7, I'd just go monk. Knock people prone erryday to give team wide advantage.

>> No.51993621

Well what is it you want him to do?

>> No.51993631

Duplicating a lower level spell doesn't incur stress so therefore it doesn't incur the 33% chance of not being able to cast wish again.

>> No.51993638

I'd hope to have some kind of divine magic, skilled in athletics plus acrobatics and be tough. Strength focus would be preferred but if I can't manage it I could just go monk.

At this point I'm leaning towards Paladin with a Maul or something reflavoured as gauntlets.

>> No.51993639

>Only if you do something beyond duplicating a spell

Yup, which is what you're doing: wishing to create all effects of Simulacrum but the last part. So, good chance of permanent Wish loss.

>Yes you do

Nope. You duplicate the spell -- in its entirety. If the DM wants to houserule away the last paragraph to make wizards stronger, then that's on him. Either way, the wish is unnecessary.

Simulacrum minus the auto destruct clause is an okay use of one of your (average) three wishes.

>> No.51993646

1. He duplicates the spell, destroying existing simulacra. Read the last paragraph FFS.
2. He wishes for greater effect: a simulacrum effect, minus the last paragraph. 33% chance of permanent wish loss.

>> No.51993650

> all effects of Simulacrum but the last part
That's not how infinite simulacrum works

>> No.51993707

Fire Emblem helps scratching my D&D itch between sessions as well. The combat is eerily similar.

Has anyone ever tried building a Pegasus Knight in 5e? Is there even a similar mount?

>> No.51993722

Well the Pegasus itself is in the Monster Manual so yes, yes there is.

>> No.51993736

Good luck getting your DM to give you a pegasus.

>> No.51993761

There are Pegasus, Hippogriffs, Griffons, and the like. The bigger question is getting your hands on that kind of a mount (IE a mount with fly speed).

>> No.51993781

Should I allow Aarakocra in my games?

>> No.51993803

I'd allow it in my home game. You'd have to seek it out (and honestly I'd have to say you would need to be a NG or LG paladin with the find steed spell to bond with the pegasus), but I see no way in which it would be a detriment to the game.

>> No.51993815

What level?
Is it appropriate to have Elemental Bird people in your setting?
Do you plan on placing on restrictions on their particular fly speed?

>> No.51993827

Yes, as long as you are prepared for flying shenanigans.

>> No.51993828

No big deal really. There's ways to make a character not fly if it would screw things up.

>> No.51993845

>spooky flying shenanigans

Casters are flying at 5th level. Is it really that big of a deal?

>> No.51993852

We're starting at 1 and one player wants to play one, it's just Storm King's Thunder so Aarakocra should be setting appropriate but I have no experience with the race.

>> No.51993857

So is Dual Wield a good option for barbarians without a use for their bonus action or should I just PAM?

>> No.51993860

Man, I really wanted to like the Kaladesh planeshift, but when the character class section is like 'half of these either don't exist or are hunted down', and they don't even bother trying to fit the classes into magitech, or even MENTION the artificer class, it felt ridiculously half-assed.
Partial credit for not using the Eldrazi yet again, I suppose.

>> No.51993866

they can fly right off the bat at level1 with one time or limit placed on them. So yes it is a big deal.

>> No.51993876

I still want them to release one for Theros but II doubt we'll get it.

>> No.51993885

In that case, I would not. Having an Aaracokra flying around would be fairly unbalanced as far as the rest of the group would be concerned, unless all those Giants decide the feathered fly is priority number 1 for a rock throw, of course.

>> No.51993894

By the time you'd get one it would effectively be a broom of flying that could get killed, and the broom in only an uncommon item. I'd say it would be appropriate by level 7-10.

>> No.51993896

Most casters can't build str and carry people into the air or over deep holes / cliff sides.

Overall though, no its not a big deal at all, though you should still be mentally prepared to deal with that third dimension in combat situations.

>> No.51994071

>That's not how infinite simulacrum works

It doesn't. See: last paragraph

>> No.51994083

Infinite simulacrum isn't based on omitting the last part of the spell

>> No.51994089

>Casters are flying at 5th level. Is it really that big of a deal?

man why does everyone fucking forget the Concentration keyword?

The game is balanced around casters being able to do ONE cool thing at a time. Flying should always take Concentration, so that way, being shot can make you fall out of the air.

>> No.51994115

Of course it is.

Duplicating a spell means you... duplicate the spell. You don't get to omit the last paragraph.

>> No.51994158


Ok let me see if I get this retarded argument. You dont get to choose how the spell you cast via wish works. So your saying you can't use Simulacrum on yourself via Wish because you don't get to choose how the spell you duplicated works?

>> No.51994176

It's based on the assumption that simulacrums are simply clones under your control rather than being an extension of you as they have spell slots of their own instead of sharing with the target. This would result in the simulacrum being able to cast and maintain their own simulacrum of the wizard in question, which would be cast via wish in order to make it an action instead of the full 12 hours to cast. Noting about omitting the last paragraph.

>> No.51994179 [DELETED] 

>You dont get to choose how the spell you cast via wish works.

Right. Duplicating a spell means... you duplicate the spell. You don't get to magically omit text from the spell... sorry.

>So your saying you can't use Simulacrum on yourself via Wish because you don't get to choose how the spell you duplicated works?

You can duplicate Simulacrum on yourself via Wish. Tragically, though... you duplicate the last paragraph too.

>> No.51994207


Theres a few things that get around that. Either magic items or high level class features for a couple of archetypes which should put into perspective how powerful a tool they are getting at lv1. Still fucking morons will give shit excuses about how every battle can happen in a closet and how every ranged attack can be used against a guy thats likely already ranged and would require things like that too hit anyway

>> No.51994217

>It's based on the assumption that simulacrums are simply clones under your control
Which is a wrong assumption. It's an illusion spell.

The old Clone spell is what you're thinking of.

Making Simulacrum work like a clone does not count as "replicating an existing level 8 spell", it counts as an extra hard wish.

>> No.51994219

Oh I see, that works.

Kinda similar to turning into someone a dragon as a way to turn into an archmage except that its an interpretation that allows, you know, infinite simulacra over time.

>> No.51994233

>Tragically, though... you duplicate the last paragraph too

OK, I'm joining this discussion late, but I have no idea what you're getting at. The loop as I see it works like this:

1. You cast simulacrum, targeting yourself.
2. Your simulacrum uses wish to duplicate simulacrum, just to skirt the 12 hour cast time. It targets you.
3. At this point, you have created one simulacrum, and that simulacrum has created one of it's own. As it is a distinct creature, it doesn't overlap with your original casting.
4. Each subsequent simulacrum can cast simulacrum via wish, targeting you (the original), creating another copy capable of casting the spell.

I mean, it's abusive and shouldn't be allowed, but it works RAW. Each creator has only a single simulacrum under their control - it's just all simulacrums all the way down.

>> No.51994247


Ok that's what your getting at. This is kind of a weird space for DM interpretation because the Simulacrum is a different individual casting the spell and it could be argued either way as "Its just like another guy casting it" and "It counts as you exactly so no more simulacrum". I'm not sure if we have had confirmation on which interpretation is right either

>> No.51994269

why are your links broken? I see the comment above you guys an the board but it doesn't pop up in your posts.

>> No.51994273

Yeah, I see now, and admitted it.

I will not, however, acknowledge that up to 600 simulacrums an hour, 14400 simulacrums a day is a legitimate reason to say wizards are OP, just that the spell is written retardedly and game developers, outside whoever did BECMI's master set, cannot write certain spell effects without going full retard.

>> No.51994280

I deleted it cuz I noticed I was wrong.

God damn, why is Simulacrum ALWAYS broken as fuck, in everything but 4e and BECMI? They wrote the spell perfectly well in 4e. Its *crazy strong* in 4e, but not at all broken.

>> No.51994283

It was deleted, but since you were viewing the thread at the time it's still there for you.

No problem. Just like pun-pun, or the more fringe case of a wizard using demiplane to create a plane where 8 hours passes in 6 seconds, some things require the DM to rein in. It's typically magic just by the nature of the game.

>> No.51994286

I'm the guy with the crazy DMs. I'd just like to add that the Druid in our party now has a pegasus as well.

>> No.51994294

I've spent far too much time on site.
Looks awesome tho

>> No.51994298

Now there's no context man, it's confusing for people just entering the thread, you shouldn;t do that shit, but your post, so whatever.
Yeah i noticed why the fuck do people do that?

>> No.51994300

>went to bed after posting in the last thread
>see this reply after waking up
>feel mild sense of distant hatred, like someone yelling obscenities from far away
No, I love YOU, random citizen!

>> No.51994318

You should exclusively use aaracockra

>> No.51994326

Pun Pun is kind of an exercise in stupidity using background plot devices -- the idea that sarrukhs could give themselves 2020157 in all their stats all along, but didn't, because they were retarded.

There's all sorts of retarded ways to do this shit, and other dumb stuff, in 3e, but simulacrum's always been fucking terrible.

>> No.51994353


>> No.51994427

Has anyone ever got a miniature from them? How's the quality?

>Yeah i noticed why the fuck do people do that?
See >>51994326
I spent a lot of time on charop boards trying to make specific concepts work; there's a difference between practical optimization and theoretical optimization. Practical optimization is 'I want to play [archetype], how do I make it as powerful as possible', and to a certain extent should be encouraged. Theoretical optimization is 'I wonder if it's possible to have literally infinite stats' it is possible in 3.5, and is done only as a thought exercise in all but the most autistic cases.

>> No.51994447

So is it a bad idea to allow the Weapon Feats UA? The only one I'm worried about is the Barbarian with Fell Handed.

>> No.51994450

I've never bought one myself, but every time I've mentioned it, people have told me it's low quality and overpriced.

>> No.51994467

I wasn't responding to the Pun-Pun part, I was responding to the deleted posts parts, lol

>> No.51994472


Remember the game designers actually thought Wizards would spam Fireballs Clerics would be healbots and Monk was on par with Druid in 3.5. Its why all epic NPCs and Gods were such pushovers. They were thinking AD&D in a game where the full power of internet autism was unleashed so of course they always missed stuff like that

>> No.51994477

5e Clone has roughly the same functionality as it's 3.5 iteration. Simulacrum being an illusion has no bearing on whether or not simulacrums can cast simulacrum
It is something that can be done away via DM fiat, personally if I ever dm'd I wouldn't allow it

>> No.51994526


There's some great insano shit in 3e that would be horrible to play, but time nonsense is probably the most that way. Its possible to make it so Timeless Body (the power not the class feature) or Temporal Acceleration can be used forever, so that you and your friends are either always interacting with a frozen world or unable to be harmed or affected.

Of interest to this are planar shepherds of Dal Quor (the 10x speed factor), but the imo more interesting planar shepherds of Xoriat. Eberron's Far Realm lets you slow everything down so that you operate on Tentacle Time, in which an hour passes outside the bubble for every minute. The use of this is for stowing summons and other things you don't want a duration to tick off, but also for a Nomad or Time Ardent who wanted to use and abuse Temporal Regression -- letting you rewind a whole hour.

It'd be a pretty nice form of ascension for a high to epic level party (probably a time ardent, 1-2 planar shepherds, and one other kind of psionic type) to be able to basically exit time and do whatever.

I tend to view 3e as more like Star Trek than most S&S.

>> No.51994527


Its not likely to be much worse than a Shield master knocking guys on thier rear every round as a bonus action

>> No.51994556

I'm more worried because he dipped fighter for dual welding hand-axes. So he can reckless attack and potentially prone 3 people.

>> No.51994565

That sounds incredibly awesome.

>> No.51994585

>dual wielding

The player is not gonna be a problem broceph.

>> No.51994590


I don't have a rulebook on hand, but could one build a dual Shielder? Aggressively running around shield-bashing 1-2 times a turn?

>> No.51994597

The 'Premium Plastic' ones are alright. A bit pricey, and I wouldn't buy it if you aren't going to get it painted.

>> No.51994598

>one bonus action
>shields past the first do nothing

Nope sorry

>> No.51994604

>0-2 orcs in 5e with a save.
There is no save, but being knocked out by sleep is just a little extra damage from the first hit, not instant death.

>> No.51994611

2 shields won't work but you can always use your attack action to shove and use your bonus action to shove with the feat.

>> No.51994614

Sorry you're right

That's a good point.

>> No.51994654

"Games" or "Systems"?

>> No.51994659

Three attacks with +7 Attack, with ADV, doing 1d6+5 each and if both attack rolls would hit they're prone? All the while doing 1d6+2 to anyone he ends his turn next to.

He seems to be doing pretty well.

>> No.51994717

So, shield paladin.. what stats?

>> No.51994732

In descending order of importance:
Str, Cha, Con, Wis, Dex, Int.

>> No.51994749


>> No.51994759

Why is Swordmaster not a fighter, are you stupid or just gay?

>> No.51994770

Huh, it is in my draft notes.

Guess I just typed over it on accident. Fighter works fine though

>> No.51994821

Since google is apparently useless, where does that particular Olivia Wilde Gif come from, it doe not look like it's from house.

>> No.51994829

Ya know, honestly the core shooty ranger doesn't seem so bad.

>> No.51994854

Hunter is alright. Beast master is the one that's ass.

>> No.51994944

Jason Bateman and Ryan Reynolds in that one movie where they switched bodies.

>> No.51994979

What if the 7th level champion feature Remarkable Athlete outright gave proficiency to initiative?

>> No.51995000

My DM is using only the Core Classes for LMoP, but he let me change from Fighter Champion to Fighter Battle Master.

Any ideas on how to roleplay the change?
I'm by Thundertree, if you're familiar with it.

>> No.51995001

Suggestions of cool uses for Minor Conjuration?

>> No.51995011

Short race can conjure a metal box with a small slot for spell casting.

>> No.51995027

Sun plasma

>> No.51995030

3d6+15 is still not as as good as 4d6+30, if he had great weapon master. The only thing I'd change is make it so he can only prone creatures at the most one size bigger than himself.

>> No.51995034

I'm homebrewing an encounter with doppelgangers.

Would it be cool if I picked 2 out of 4 players, let them know they'll become doppelgangers and let them RP it so the other players get caught unaware?

Or how do a DM roleplay a doppel encounter?

>> No.51995051

Seems a bit unnecessary for such a minor change.

>> No.51995063

I made a not-Artificer who uses it to summon things like wrenches or hammers while working or to summon a fancy chair to look smug in during conversations.

>> No.51995082

Ez- you went from an instinct based fighting style to a trained one, either on your own or due to a NPC training you for a week like that Avatar episode with Sokka.

Just have an NPC point it out anime style in a fight then go back to business as usual.

>> No.51995118

Is allowing a free feat at level 1 going to change much? I just feel like there's some characters who can't afford feats for a while but really want one for there character.

>> No.51995156

No. You could also use training rewards for extra feats, as early as a reward for the first session, to get them hooked.

>> No.51995167

So what's the difference between a Climbing Speed and the Athlete feats? As far as I can tell all climb speed does is stop it costing extra movement so I'm wondering why the Athlete feat doesn't just give you a Climb Speed.

>> No.51995171

You can adjust and manage but it does make some weaker humans. A lot of builds want one feat before pumping stats, humans get an edge in these and pick up an ability score lead from 4.

Also note that people can get +3 to a stat for base 18 that way. But yeah, manageable.

>> No.51995178

>weaker humans

I wouldn't shed any tears for a grossly overpowered race being pared down to equality.

>> No.51995185

Next game I'm running I think I'm going to just disallow variant human and give every character a feat at level 1.

>> No.51995196

Non-variant human is pretty worthless in 5e since most classes care about 3 stats tops. Variant human is still OP. Personally, I'd rather have the former because it means you get more varied party composition until everyone realizes how good half-elves are.

This guy gets it.

>> No.51995202

Yeah I plan to do this but give humans the free skill as well.

>> No.51995219

>give every character a feat at level 1.

The more I play, the more I think this should just be part of the core game. Feats add so much potential personality to characters, but there are also so many that are just never worth taking over an ASI.

>> No.51995228

Working on a homebrew one-shot, how do I make it not feel too railroad-y?

>> No.51995234

>Non-variant human is pretty worthless in 5e since most classes care about 3 stats tops.

Not at all. 3 16s, or fucking 16/14/14/14/12/9 isn't bad at all, and most races get Wow: Its Fucking Nothing for special abilities.

They're definitely on par with dragonborn, elves, dwarves, goblins, hobgoblins, however you slice it.

>> No.51995245

Set up multiple roads that lead to (about) the same destination. Make the players think it was their choice.

>> No.51995247

I was thinking either an additional skill or tool proficiency to go with. After 3.5 I care more about people being able to have a creative character concept and being able to make it happen easily and at the earliest level possible than worrying about balance. An elf bard with a feat at level 1 to get thorn whip via magic initiate isn't going to break my encounters.

>> No.51995299

How would you go about summoning wenches?

No, but you might want to impose some limitations to the free feat. Like no Lucky or GWM at lv1.

>> No.51995333

I hope you plan on removing compulsory feats (PAM, SS, CBE, GWM, some others) as well and giving parts of those for free, then buffing non-variant human to, say, the +2 +1 +1 type.

>> No.51995334

Copy all their character sheets and hand the copies back to them. The doppelganger players have "has a mustache" written on it somewhere in the fluff parts.

>> No.51995412

That's pretty good actually.

>> No.51995454

With the minmax array everybody can get two 16s. after the first ASI the +2/+1 races get two 16 and a 18, just like normal human except humans have no racial features.

So you are giving up on racial features for a +1 in your tertiary stat lasting only 3 levels.

>> No.51995466

>compulsory feats
>bunch of martial stuff
No, I would like other races to be competent fighters at level 1 too.

>> No.51995486


Right, but normal human lets you get 16/14/14/14/12/9. A wizard, for example, is definitely going to benefit from dex, con, and wis at 14, as that's all 3 defensive ability scores.

That's certainly worth whatever garbage most races offer you, remembering that the normal human is "only" on par with elves, dwarves, dragonborn, goblins and hobgoblins.

>> No.51995557

Has anyone played the fan conversion of Age of Worms yet? I was thinking of running it for my group for the next big campaign since I'm fairly new to the system and none of the premade adventures caught my eye like this one.

>> No.51995604

>tfw you ban those from the human selection at level 1
I would honestly limit starting feats to things that are mostly fluff; shit like +1 feats that aren't armor prof or mastery, and possibly ritual caster and magic adept.

>> No.51995611

No, moron. Every race would get the modified gwm and ss and such.

>> No.51995638

The deal is that right now, if you ban non-variant human and give everyone a feat you'll see much more variation in race in the classes that have practically compulsory feats, but you'll still see these people choosing the feats they need to do good.
And if they don't choose those feats? Well, then they'll suck harder.
If you stop them from selecting those feats at all, you nerf the martials. If you stop them from selecting those feats at level 1, they can probably survive I guess.

But really we just need to get rid of those fucking feats, give parts of those feats to each weapon and then what you have is the people who don't want to build fancy feat builds being stronger, the people who want to build fancy feat builds to be as strong as they can being perhaps a bit weaker but everybody having a lot more choice as they no longer feel compelled to get their GWM -> PAM -> Sentinel or whatever fucked up build sequence they need and can spend those feats on interesting things like, say, ritual caster to have some fun utility.

>> No.51995641

Or he could go Variant with resilient con or dex for actual defensive benefits

>> No.51995695

No darkvision, no things like 'poison resistance', no +2 only +1s, no extra skills, no things like fey ancestry or advantage on int/wis/cha saves, no +health or armour proficiency, no 'you can decide to NOT die' ability, reroll all 1s, etc...
Typically, you're trading a +1 in a stat you need AND a bunch of other useful features for... What, +1 to your dump stats?

Non-variant human is okay for paladins (Who need strength for hitting stuff and armour, need dex for initiative and not being clumsy and dex saves, need con for health and con saves, need wis for wis saves and perception and all that, charisma for obvious paladin things and that leaves them with only int to not be a dumb fuck).. When variant human doesn't exist (Because PAM at level 1 is way better).

I'd say non-variant human is on par with dragonborn when the dragonborn plays something that actually needs charisma and strength (Paladin or some of its multiclasses).

>> No.51995713

Yes, the yuan ti, feral winged tiefling, human variant, etc. tier of races is stronger than the human, elf, dwarf, dragonborn tier of races. No doubt.

>> No.51995719

+1 to your 4th stat is not worth
- an extra cantrip (elves)
- bonus action disengage (goblins)
- a d8 hitdie instead of a d6 (dwarves)
- +5 to a check / short rest (hobgoblins)

And darkvision for everybody.

(Obviously normal human is better than some races for wizard in particular, the races that don't get +2 to INT)

>> No.51995738

Fuck off faggot Age of Worms is trash.

>> No.51995814

>getting rid of sharpshooter and gwm
No, fuck you. All PM needs is a slight nerf.

>> No.51995817


>No darkvision, no things like 'poison resistance', no +2 only +1s, no extra skills, no things like fey ancestry or advantage

Mostly teeny little trifles. Other than poison resistance, which is good, though mountain dwarf armor does not remotely synergize with their str bonus (though +2/+2 is still +2/+2, obscenely rare), so you're pretty much looking at a great cleric race in hill giants and not much else. So they probably belong with the other short races, even though they're medium.

Darkvision is a lot less attractive when one realizes you still have disadvantage on perception checks.

>advantage on int/wis/cha saves, no 'you can decide to NOT die' ability, reroll all 1s

Would never dream of putting the human/elf/dragonborn/goblin/hobgoblin tier (which is better than kenku tier) on that level.

You got barbarians, lore bards, druids, melee fighters, sorcerers, warlocks, and wizards in the category of races that do well with 16/14/14/14/13/8 (or whatever); about half the classes in the game. Just about everything that is going to lean almost totally on str, int, or cha, basically.

>PAM at level 1 is way better

No shit, never remotely argued that winged tiefling/variant human tier races were on the same level of a whole lot of nothing tier races.

>> No.51995825

One of my players wantshould to play a wizard who is a professor studying the origins of magic and the weave.

His backstory says that he postulates that magic, both arcane and divine, are the byproduct of "extremely miniscule mechanizations that are omnipresent from a bygone era" the weave is "a result of the interaction between these machanizations whose combined power allows influence on the world". He also states that divine entities are simply "artificial constructs that formed from within these mechanizations".

I usually don't allow meta gaming in the form of anachronistic technology, but I think this is pretty cool and it creates some drama to work with (being named a heretic by any divine worshipers).

Is there any potential for meta gaming that I am missing? Should I allow it?

>> No.51995864

I mean besides being so vaguely worded that you can't draw any conclusions from the statement? His statement could mean anything from "magic is part of the physical laws of the world, magic is just another form of energy and gods are energy given form" to "magic is literally author privilege and the gods are below the DM".

>> No.51995868

>an extra cantrip

Their stats are hot garbage, on the other hand. The amount of characters that can actually use the extra intelligence and the cantrip are not long.

>bonus action disengage (goblins)

There aren't many characters that are going to do well with goblin stats and size that need the added mobility. They aren't even in competition with humans for the same classes (ones that benefit from 16/14/14/14/13/8).


Yeah, they definitely belong on the next rung, with halflings and gnomes.


Expecting a 6 man party is pretty damn cocky. More likely +3 at best.

>> No.51995916

I guess. I was reading into nanotechnology and sentient AI gods.

>> No.51995925

>want to play a necromancer and expand every spellslot into maintaining a small army
>nowhere to keep them when entering any sort of settlement

What to do?

>> No.51995936

Yeah that's not what I'm getting. The thing is I'm not sure what he's trying to say.
>extremely miniscule mechanizations
Does he mean little machines running around? But then how are people controlling them, because machines don't just let anyone run them and even if they do machinery needs energy to run, so magic is still energy, just realized through mechanization. Not to mention this doesn't make sense from a physical reality point of view, this is like the aether argument all over again.

>a result of the interaction between these machanizations
This is just meaningless when combined with 'omnipresent'. If something is omnipresent then the nature of the interactions between the omnipresent are simply the fundamental laws of the world. The omnipresent mechanizations becomes the mechanical aspect of a physical world.

>articifical constructs
But EVERYTHING is an artificial construct under this line of thought.

>> No.51995951

Shallow grave on the outskirts of town. Have them bury and exhume themselves as needed. Later you can use Seeming to keep an entourage.

>> No.51995960

Sounds like he's been reading Numenera.

>> No.51996097

>Getting rid of
If anything, they're being given for free. What's being removed is their synergy with other feats that grant extra attacks.
You use weapon X for GWM's +10 damage, but you use weapon X if you want PAM's reaction attack,for example.

>> No.51996122

>Whether you intended it to or not, your map tells a story of colonial conquest and westward expansion from the eastern horn. If that's unintentional, you might want to rethink things.
That's exactly what happened.

The borders in the east are the result of centuries of wars and follow the land and smaller rivers. It is analogous to Europe, and the states are named and patterned after European countries (Brynwyck, Pent, Ardolia--variations on England; Cattari--Italy; Anzeigar--Germany; etc.).

Westward expansion past that first large river and the huge inner sea / lake wasn't possible due to the obscenely large number of Native American-styled orcs on the other side. The first successful attempts were made after a glacial dam in the north broke (or was broken by FUCKING ELVES, who are French-Canadians) and formed that massive lake and demolished everything downstream, including flooding the ancestral caverns of the Spanish Dwarves.

The Dwarves, unable to drain them, fucked off into the human nations or headed west into the mountains and beyond. They got a head start on colonization because the Orcs weren't as numerous down there. Elves had already expanded eastward prior, but the collapse of the glacial dam destroyed most of their shit on the other side, so they were somewhat reset. The humans could finally get across now that the largest riverside settlements of the Orcs were totally gone.

Expansion even further to the west didn't happen until after a mysterious illness wiped out even more Orcs. The Dwarves also managed to colonize halfway up the western coast and further north the closer to the east you get, so they butted heads with the humans coming in. But something similar as to what hit the Orcs came down and they all died or retreated south of the river border again.

All but one of the rivers starts in mountains and they're simplified views because I can't be assed to do windy bends and forks everywhere. Only the major ones are pictured.

>> No.51996150

I tried to make everything somewhat geographically correct, too. The mountains are either formed of volcanic uplift or slippage at faults (there's a meeting of two plates in the west, actually) and that second river in the west that goes all the way down follows not just the fault line between the two, but the break of an even more ancient glacial dam which flooded a path all the way down through Dwarf Mexico and into the center of the now-desert. There is an unpictured Grand Canyon-styled thing way south of them as a result.

The rain shadow of the mountains is also represented somewhat because holy fuck am I bothered by every fantasy map with a huge forest on the east side of a mountain and barren nothing on the west (assuming it's a northern hemisphere continent and wind goes -->)

>> No.51996167

My problem is you're referring to things like elves on that tier, you didn't mention the ones that're really on non-variant human's tier like hobgoblins or dragonborn might be.

Non-variant human is a good half a modifier in a bunch of dump stats. Elf gives proficiency in perception, weapon proficiencies, minimal sleeping, advantage against charms, +2 in an important stat and +1 in a caster-ish stat, darkvision and then one of the subraces, of which wood elf is pretty damn good considering 35ft speed as a racial is an oddity, mask of the wild can actually prove useful to rangers/rogues sometimes (who use dex) and it gives +1 wis which is another great stat.

Even if you have disadvantage on perception checks, how that affects your passive perception is kind of up to the DM since I don't recall there being anything there about it (Which is what's really important) and you can see enemies at all, which is great considering that's going from 'enemies have advantage against you, you have disadvantage to them' to normal without having a light (There are a number of ways to get light, obviously, but you can't rely on always having light).
>No shit
Considering how MAD paladins are, you might actually think variant human pretty good. It's +5 total to useful stats and you can take PAM at level 4, compared to variant human + ASI being +4, it's just that +2 cha +2 str is probably better than +1 str +1 cha and then +1 wis+dex+con.

>> No.51996185

Alright, I created a Bard, and because Vicious Mockery basically sounded like "Bard - the cantrip", and I have heard you guys say it was good, I picked it, and spammed it.

Now I just got to level 3, and I am considering replacing it.

It feels extremely underwhelming. Never mind the 1d4 damage, the fact that it requires a Wisdom save means it just feels so terribly unreliable. My dc is 14 right now, and it won't got much better. Most enemies seem to pass it half the time, and it just makes it super unreliable.

The 1d4 is completely irrelevant, and isn't doing damage even at level 1.

The wisdom save makes it super unreliable, and with no real way to manipulate the outcome (can't get advantage to the attack, for example)

Disadvantage is only good in certain circumstances. If they are attacking a high AC character, they are unlikely to hit in the first place, and if they are attacking a low AC character (like my bard), they'll probably hit anyway. Couple that with the fact that it probably won't go through more than half the time, and takes up my action, and I can't rely on this ever helping me.

Am I missing something here? Or should I just reserve this for really low wisdom enemies (I have no idea what wisdom the monsters have, so I can't actually abuse that), and do something else with my actions (which I honestly don't know what should be)?

Please, teach me how to bard, /tg/.

>> No.51996212

It's a good spell to cast with your valor bard spec feature. Disadvantage is great, on a rogue (which is like reason 9001 I think Bard should have been a half-caster with sneak attack instead, or, shit, a subclass of rogue with inspiration and a few spells instead of trickster).

That's pretty much it, you're not supposed to spam it, you're still a bard, not a wizard. That's why you have light armor, d8, a semi martial spec, and rogue type weapons, rather than being a gimp with a book.

>> No.51996241

>Implying you can replace it

Once you reach level 5, it will do 2d4 damage. Once you reach level 11, it will do 3d4 damage.

Once you reach level 3, you will do perhaps 1d8+3 damage if you have 16 dex with a crossbow with no additional effects. Level 5, you'll do 1d8+3 damage. Level 11, you'll do 1d8+3 damage. Not considering spells to boost damage or magical items.

It's not a great cantrip, but it does hardly any less damage than any other at-will attack you have (Unless you want to take 2 levels of warlock or something for Xd10+(X*CHAMOD) damage and repulsion) unless you're a valor bard. But lore bard is better, we all know lore bards are best... Usually. Unless you can capitalize on valor bard grappling.

Your problem is you're expecting great at-will damage on a support caster who's great at pretty much everything else.

>> No.51996251

So I pretty much have to go with Valor if I want to contribute meaningfully, and not just be a Wizard-lite with skills like a Rogue?

I was really hoping to pick up Lore College...

>> No.51996311

You don't have to, Lore is good.

Mockery isn't amazing, but still contributes for others. More importantly, The Bard list is almost entirely about control, it's just that Mockery is at best control-lite (it's single target faerie fire with a questionable save and 1d4 damage).

Lore is generally held to be better, mostly because of its ability to be wizard-lite, but people are kind of overrating how good more secrets is when Bard already has a solid spell list for buffs and control.

>> No.51996373

If all you have going for you is 'dealing damage', then something is horribly, horribly wrong for you. Don't value your damage as your contribution, it's other things such as careful placement of a spell that give you value, and going valor bard isn't exactly going to boost your power massively.

There are spells such as 'call lightning' and 'vampiric touch' that allow you to, for an entire minute or more, use your action to make a spell attack likely more powerful than a valor bard's attack, but I don't believe bards get those unless you use one of your level 6 magical secrets on thme, and there are probably better choices. But they exist if that's what you want.

>> No.51996387

>So I pretty much have to go valor bard to contribute
Nonsense, lore bard is one of the strongest archetype. Vicous mockery is better used against a single strong enemy. Use the crossbow on low AC enemy or in encounters with multiple weak enemies.

Imo you're underrating cutting words a lot. The level 6 magical secret really help rounding up the spell list (counterspell !)

>> No.51996394

>people are kind of overrating how good more secrets is

Secrets are absolutely amazing.

Also, to add to this, a Lore Bard is super powerful supporter.

3 additional skills AND expertise is great for being a Skill monkey.

Cutting words - you having issues with getting hit? Spend that reaction to impose a scaling negative modifier. This is AFTER you see the roll. That is amazing.

>> No.51996435

>you're underrating cutting words a lot.
Cutting words is, imo, a significantly stronger reason to take it than 4 more secrets (admittedly secrets at level 6 is definitely strong)

>> No.51996491

>You can cutting words a monster's initiative
>You can cutting words an attack to make it miss
>You can cutting words an AoE damage roll to make a fireball do 1dX less damage to everyone
>You can cutting words a monster's check to not fall off a cliff as you push them, or their attempt to escape a vital grapple
>You can somehow use cutting words to reduce an enemy's perception roll

Alternatively you can be a valor bard and have to actually give them inspiration before they can benefit from your feature, either adding more damage (Wow, 1dX damage against the meatshields that are monsters!) or increasing AC (Literally cutting words in reverse, except they have to have inspiration in the first place, you can't just use it as a reaction to someone about to die)

>> No.51996527

Redpill me on Healing Word
Is combat healing a waste of a turn or is it actually helpful?

>> No.51996533

Moreover, a Valor bard would generally go for crossbow wuth crossbow expert, and then you already have a solid use for your bonus action.

Valor bards can be good, no doubt, but they fill an entirely different role if you go down that path.

>> No.51996544

Healing word is weak in healing, but the bonus action makes it very powerful. Someone was knocked out and rolling death saves. Tell them to man up, and bam, 1d4+mod health back, and they can get back on their feet and get back to killing.

>> No.51996585

Anyone knows where I can find the full art pieces from the magic items in the DMG?

>> No.51996595

>healing word
>waste of a turn
It's the only spell (along with the mass variation) that use a bonus action and not an action.

>> No.51996608

Dress them in robes, use padding where needed. Pretent to be a monk yourself. Tell everyone they've devouted themselves to a vow of silence.

>> No.51996612

What about the stench ?

>> No.51996616

They still have a similar role.

Thing is, they can't really grant inspiration as a bonus action and attack as a bonus action. And using a hand crossbow stops you from using a shield. And if you get high dex you didn't really need medium armour. That said, 3 extra skills on a character with jack of all trades and lots of skills already is...
I guess they could use inspiration before fights for stuff like higher initiative, though.
On a similar yet unrelated tangent, a 20 dex bard with the +5 initiative feat and 20 charisma and 3 levels of rogue and that stupid one level dip of stupid fucking UA multiclass ranger could reach an initiative of
2d20d1 + 5 + 3 + 5 + 5 + 1d12 or 2d20d1+1d12+18. What use is that? Aboslutely fucking no use at all, but it's funny.

Anyway. The valor bard has:
>Better grapples (Expertise+extra attack synergy)
>More damage
>A free feat (Moderately armoured)
And lore bard has
>Better inspiration use (Aggressive)
>More spell versatility (Counterspell+something useful)
>A free feat (Skilled)

The lore bard is better when you get sufficient rests. The valor bard seems to be best if you have to resort to at-will attacks a lot. That's how I'd put it.

>> No.51996628

A vow of not bathing?

>> No.51996630

Prestidigitation the flesh away so that they are squeaky clean skeletons

>> No.51996637

Remember you don't get to cast a full action non-cantrip spell after using healing word. Just saying that as a reminder to all the unenlightened anons here.

Anyway, it's not. Sure, you COULD heal them for more... But why should you care? If you healed them for 10 instead of 3, it matters only the same once an enemy hits them with a 15 damage attack and knocks them right down again.

Healing word is purely for getting an ally off the floor. If you use a variant rule that doesn't allow you to do that with healing, it's practically useless.

>> No.51996720

This, honestly. A true necromancer should take good care of his servants.

>> No.51996737

>The lore bard is better when you get sufficient rests. The valor bard seems to be best if you have to resort to at-will attacks a lot. That's how I'd put it.
Yep, spot on.

I have a level 13 lore bard. The group had 0 support characters, SO I picked this one up. For reasons mostly related to the fact that literally nobody was gold with animals, I went full "animal lover" with expertise in animal handling, Find Steed, and Awaken to use on my pet mouse I got from my Urchin background, because why not.

I started with inspiring leader, heroism (that my GM forced me to replace after 4 encounters and put a level 5 limit on it, because he couldn't deal with it) healing word, and then a ton of other support spells. I was just sitting in the backline, making my party impossible to keep down, an going for me was pointless, because barkskin + shield + counterspell + Warlock with am EB that pushed, reduced movement, and a full list of additional effects.

>> No.51996801


New thread!

>> No.51997287

Any tips for barbarian?

>> No.51997756

Sarruks cannot modify themselves, but the idea is they can turn any scalykind into a god, so you just need to be a reptilian caster and polymorph your familiar into a sarruk.

>> No.51997847

Secretly decide which players get replaced, if any. Publicly reveal that half the party has been replaced. Secretly tell each player that they are not a doppelganger. Sit back and laugh. Reveal the truth when it becomes proven definitively.

>> No.51997892

Sort of. 4E was pretty much a tabletop version of games like FFT.

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