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/tg/ - Traditional Games


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>> No.51895083

>>51895066
First for benis

:DDD

>> No.51895085

I2 is a spook

>> No.51895108

Let's not ruin this one mmkay?

>> No.51895132

>>51895085
>I2
>2nd post

Pottery

>> No.51895140

>>51895108

Fake. No one plays Vindicators these days, let alone 6 of them.

>> No.51895141

Pure DE for the win. Not feeling this Ynnari stuff

>> No.51895168

Thought you guys might like smug black 40k player kid in 1988 White Dwarf

>> No.51895169

>>51895140
>not wanting 2 massive 10 1 ignore cover blasts
You're like a little faggot

>> No.51895170

>>51895141
I don't know I might try the triumvirate at some point just for fun, but the other eldar factions can go fuck themselves.

What's the difference between craftworlders and harlequins?

One of them are a bunch of clowns, the other are harlequins.

>> No.51895173

>>51895169
>scatters back and kills all 6 Vindicators

REEEEEEEEEEEEE

>> No.51895174

>>51895170

I'd rather add just harlequins than craftworlders. I'll give the book that atleast it makes it easier to do.

>> No.51895176

>>51895168
There's a 99% chance that he was the first person on earth to buy the tau codex with a face like that.

>> No.51895183

>>51895168

>> No.51895199

Any flaws in the list? Thinking of swapping some stuff around for maybe a battlegroup (Gets rid of Vets for 2 LR for Emperor's Fist core) or less drastically removing some stuff for VC and 1 more gun each on vets.

>> No.51895204

>>51895176
How were tau in there first rendition in 40k?

I've heard that they were always the WAAC players army but I don't have any reference point to confirm that

>> No.51895205

If guard gets full squadron bonus i will take 3 demolisher in every game.

>> No.51895211

>>51895204
Dunno, I am a disgusting newfag that started with 6th.

>> No.51895216

>>51895199
I'm not very knowledgable about guard but do you have any anti air in there?

>> No.51895222

>>51895204

The only time Tau were ridiculous were once in 4E due to Fish of Fury and from 6E onwards. They were okay in 5E.

>> No.51895224

>>51895216
Paskisher will deal with most Air Units I come across in my meta, no more than 1 or 2 at a time.

>> No.51895236

>>51895222

Fish of Fury=devilfish spam?

Does this still happen?

>> No.51895243

>>51895222
>They were okay in 5E.
they complained louder than orks do now about it, though, which was real fuckin' ripe

>> No.51895252

lost horribly against daemons today as dark angels

how do i beat Aetaos'Rau'Keres in 2000 point game

>> No.51895255

>>51895216
Hydras are shit so the only AA he would take anyways is his own flyer.

>> No.51895256

>>51895168
>freebies

fuck you can tell just how old that picture is from the caption

>> No.51895270

I need to glue my models but I'm too lazy.

I'm not even like doing anything, just sitting here pressing f5 trying to work up the willpower to continue existing.

Help me.

>> No.51895293

>>51895270

I want you to picture fielding the completed model. I want you to envision the games you will be able to play with it. Now I want you to consider what you spent for that plastic and the waste it will go to if you do nothing. If that doesn't get you off your ass then there is nothing I can do for you faggot.

>> No.51895296

Should I even bring an Emperors Wrath unit? It seems like LRs are just so much better at being artillery than artillery are.

>> No.51895301

Need list advice--wanted to use the harridan because I've had good luck with it and thought it'd be fun to dump gargoyles on someone.

>> No.51895306

How people have actually run Secutarii Peltasts? How much of an asshole would it make me to run a full unit of 20 just so I can try firing 80 S3 Shred shots against local horde army players?

>> No.51895307

>>51895236

Not anymore. The tactic was that units could shoot through other units in their own army if they could draw LoS through them, but because of target priority, your opponent had to fire at the closest models and couldn't target models behind another units.

It was argued that, because Devilfish were Skimmers, Tau could shoot under them. So Tau players could set up a wedge of Devilfish filled with Fire Warriors in the middle, each Devilfish exposing its AV12 front to whomever was in front of it, and each Devilfish had two Gun Drones and a Burst Cannon on the front. That's a whole lot of S5. On top of that, I think models had trouble targeting Skimmers, something like having to stay 2" away, so Tau negated their weakness to melee easily. And the Devilfish could also get Flechette Dischargers for further wounding of anything trying to get in close.

Basically, it was a shitty tactic, but one that used a couple units in combination. Now you just bring as much of a few cheese units as you can.

>> No.51895312

>>51895306

Peltasts are still in experimental rules, so don't get too attached to them as they are now. Newest IA book might revise them to make them more reasonable, and even the HH books will probably tone them down.

>> No.51895317

Why having your soul merged into Slaanesh forever should be a bad thing?

>> No.51895331

>>51895312
Even if they remove relentless or tone down the salvo fire I'd still be fine with them. I like their ability to ignore los and different fire modes are always an interesting thing to me. But I wouldn't mind trying them once before they get toned down.

>> No.51895337

>>51895317

>"merged"

You don't understand Chaos very well.

>> No.51895338

>>51895270

I can't help you because I'm doing the exact same thing instead of going to sleep. I welcome the sweet embrace of oblivion, but my asshole brain decided it wasn't sleepy anymore because I missed my window of opportunity to go to bed while sleepy.

>> No.51895346

>>51895337

I'd like to merge my penis with Slaanesh's vagina if you know what I HEARHRGURHUGHTGUHT

>> No.51895365

I've been flirting with the idea of starting a 40k army for a while, I've got a handful of necron infantry but I got those mostly just for wanting to paint them, seems like they could be sortof boring to put together a full army and play.

Lately it's been Tyranids that feel most fun to me when i think about painting AND playing. Unfortunately I hear that the Tyranids are basically total shit tier in gameplay these days? Like as in highly complicated and restrictive if I want to have any chance of getting a decent game out of them. Is the situation really as bad as they say? Can I get myself a Flyrant and some other stuff and have a decent time, or should I just wait for a new codex or 40k edition?

>> No.51895367

>>51895296
dont be a pussy matt

>> No.51895376

>>51895331

Could work, but just straight cutting their Flechette profile down to 12" could work, although I think all those profiles need a tweak. Killing Relentless is certainly an option, since it means they have a move-and-fire range on the Flechettes of 12", like a shotgun. It also means they can't reliably fire their Kinetic shots, so they either stay still or charge in guns blazing. Or just flare everything and hope the volume of templates and Blind tests make things easy for them to chew up with close-range Flechettes.

>> No.51895381

>>51895337
Then please elucidate me.

>> No.51895411

>>51895367
I don't know this meme. Is it a good idea or no?

>> No.51895428

>>51895411
Being able to twin link arty units for a turn is nice plus the ignores cover order can help them really fuck things up. Personally though I just bring a pair of wyverns though plenty of people seem to like the Emperor's Wrath company.

>> No.51895437

if you think about it, the dark angels troop/transport deal is one hell of a deal
you get all that stuff for the price of a the tactical squad and the conversion kit
the rhino is basically free

>> No.51895438

Back due to popular demand:

Reminder that pic related has a sweet melody which suits them perfectly now

https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=IUGzY-ihqWc&feature=share [Open] [Open]

FAQ:
>Dubstep is gay lol?
Dubstep suits many chaotic factions as it is fairly chaotic
Also this song is hardly Dubstep

>I listened to three seconds and I thought it was shit?
No, you are shit. Try lasting longer than you do in bed next time, before giving a review

>If this music isn't to my personal taste, does that mean it is the wrong song for the Night Lords?
No

>ITS NOT METAL I CAN SHAKE MY NECKBEARD TO????
Metal music doesn't suit chaos, this isn't the 80s. The Night Lords have evolved a lot in the last 8-10 years, so get on board or fuck off. Metal only really suits World Eaters, even then, probably Hardcore.

>My Emps Children love the shit metal though!!!
No, your structured music would bore them to death. Please read current fluff, not your 80s shit

>LOL LOOK MY SHIT SONG ABOUT BATS OR LIGHTNING IS FUNNY
*Pat pat* nice original joke, friend

>Does the above point apply for any of my other "funny" song ideas?
Yes.

>I know more about music than you because that is brostep, not dubstep
Doesn't change the fact that it is the correct song for the Night Lords

>Why did you word that first sentence weirdly?
Because people thought they were clever with their spam filter

>> No.51895445

Is there anything that allows Guard to re-roll 1's aside from Cadian Battlegroup rule?

>> No.51895447

>>51895365
You can beat orks, guard, dark aeldaris, and non competative marines.

>> No.51895451

>>51895438
Ha gayyy

>> No.51895456

>>51895438
Look, he posted it again.

>> No.51895463

>>51895445
Ammunition dump, Kurov's aquila, iron hand tempered helm.

>> No.51895467

>>51895376
Looking at the Hoplites they seem like they could use a tweak too. I find it weird that a melee unit has a higher BS than WS and as far as I can tell relentless serves them no purpose. Though I guess the point of the unit is more to be at the front shielding the units behind it rather than actually charging anything.

>> No.51895484

>>51895451
Sexuality transcends music, friendo

>>51895456
How about you provide some decent discussion instead of spamming?

>> No.51895486

>>51895376
flechettes are going down to s2, hammershot is optional for 3 points a model
t. 30k player

>> No.51895500

>>51895467

These units were based off regular Skitarii Rangers and Vanguard, so they inherited the rules stats of Skitarii. That means and WS3/BS4 and Relentless.

Hoplites I can see destroying vehicles, but how are they going to catch them and how are they going to survive engagement are the biggest problems.

>> No.51895532

How fun is it to run Knights on their own? I really wanna run the following.

Datasheet: Baronial Court

Knight Crusader w/ Thermal Cannon, Avenger Gatling, Stormspear Rocketpod, Meltagun, and Mark Of The Omnissiah 500pt

Knight Warden w/ Avenger Gatling, Reaper Chainsword, Ironstorm Missile Pod, and Meltagun 410pt

Knight Paladin w/ Rapid-Fire Battlecannon, Thunderstrike Gauntlet, Twin-Icarus Autocannon, and Meltagun 425pt

Total is 1335

>> No.51895557

>>51895500
Well if the next IA lets Skitarii take the Triaros that might alleviate that a bit, though that would be expensive as hell unless the Triaros is much cheaper in 40k.

>> No.51895568

>>51895484
>How about you provide some decent discussion instead of spamming?
ironic/10

here's your (you), and that's my bingo square.

>> No.51895580

>>51895365
Tyranids will either continue being total shit or will get better next edition but my money is on "stay shit". As for what to buy...this depends on your meta.

TBQH the situation is even worse than people say... forget about playing against tau or eldar and even deldar will give you trouble. Fighting orks feels pretty even.

The worst part is that if you bring your relatively good units (>3 flyrants, mawlocs) you might get labeled as a tryhard. If you try to make a balanced list, you'll probably get crushed.

Painting then is also incredibly time-consuming and possibly expensive (fwiw two tervigons will need a couple-hundred gants some days, and you'll want them all as troops).

Bottom line is if you want to win most of your games, you've picked the wrong army, and buying optimistically is rarely a good idea.

>> No.51895614

>>51895437
Yeah I was a little shocked, GW bundles seem to normally be shit but this is actually really helpful for building a battle company.

>> No.51895630

>>51895176

>> No.51895638

>>51895614
>have to buy 6 of those shits and you still won't have HQs and auxiliary

Fucking GW just sell a Battle Company box or a box of 3 or 6 Rhinos/pods.

>> No.51895657

Is it obligatory for a unit with Deep Strike rule to arrive to the battlefield via Deep Strike or can he deploy together with the ground forces?

>> No.51895665

>>51895484
You are the last person on earth to say that.

>> No.51895667

>>51895638
No goyim, buy your $20 dollar monopose finecast HQs!
If you don't you aren't supporting the industry goyim ;)

At this point in time I feel like Age of Emperor is just GW blackmail they're dangling over us.

>> No.51895673

>>51895657
Well duh. Ever heard about terminators in LR?

>> No.51895678

>>51895665
I am sure there will be more people who will say that, I am hardly going to be the last.

>> No.51895689

>>51895657

The rules for a unit/formation/army will tell you if the deep strike is mandatory. Most of the time it is optional. Usually it's shit like Drop Pods or themed armies that have a story of dropping onto the battlefield that have it mandatory.

>> No.51895691

Does Necron RP work like FNP or does it happen at the end of the turn or something? I don't trust my mate.

>> No.51895699

>>51895691

It used to resurrect dead Necrons at the end of the turn. In 7th edition, it's simply a special save for when you fail your armor save or don't get an armor save, much like Feel No Pain or WHFB's ward saves.

>> No.51895729

>>51895580
>Fighting orks feels pretty even.

I hate running into Nids as Orks. Mainly because every goddamn MC has Fear and we have no way to ignore that. And we can't just snipe down their MCs because our shooting is shit.

That being said, it's more even than any other encounter. And I have run Dread Mob against Nids, at a tournament. I lost every other game, except against the Nid guy. Honestly felt sorry for him.

>> No.51895785

>>51895729

Ork Walkers will have to take morale checks in the next codex because they're really fired up

>> No.51895802

>>51895785
Don't forget they have to use the grot's LD of 5.

>> No.51895806

>>51895785
>Killa Kanz.

>> No.51895820

>>51895365
I started out like you back in 4th.

You'll have to buy more figures than the space marine fags and you'll be worse off.

>> No.51895834

>>51895699
Fuck fluff, lets "streamline" everything.

>> No.51895850

Dafuq do I do about necrons? The bastards just won't fucking die.

>> No.51895871

>>51895850

S8/10 pie plates or CC walker spam.

>> No.51895878

>>51895204
They were good when first introduced. Then they were pretty awful for a while. Then the new codex came out. And here we are.

Theres a reason noone played them before the rise of the Riptide

>> No.51895909

I was checking out what the games workshop website had for this week and noticed that the polish website has the cadian defence force in stock.
Has this always been there or is this new to this week?

>> No.51895921

Dear GW,

Stop lumping chaos in to two books.
Make a book of Khorne, Nurgle, Tzeentch, Slaanesh, renegades (current book), and traitor legions, with demons and marines in one etc.
Current demons book makes no fucking sense. Current marine book is too bland for anything except recent traitors.

>> No.51895923

>>51895909
it's an old set, but they're doing a rerun of it this weekend

>> No.51895925

>>51895878
I played them when they came out in battlefleet gothic, and started them as a normal 40k army after bfg was cucked just before 7e was released

>> No.51895942

>>51895252
Doesn't Ate-a-taco have a restriction that he can only be used in games of XXXX points and larger? Either way, just don't play against him outside Apocalypse.

>> No.51895947

>>51895923
This weekend only? Ive been meaning to start a guard army actually so the timing of this is perfect

>> No.51895952

>>51895921

It is done.

>> No.51895954

Help. I built this chimera for my GSC and this part seems to be left over...

>> No.51895967

>>51895954

It's a part for building the Basilisk.

It's also missing from the building instructions for the basilisks and tells you to use another (wrong) part instead of it.

>> No.51895977

Rate my list

++ AdM War Convocation (1845 pts) ++


Battle Maniple (855pts)

Skitarii Rangers (120pts)
> Ranger Alpha; Refractor Field
> 1x - Skitarii Ranger; Omnisprex
> 3x - Skitarii Ranger; Plasma Caliver

Skitarii Vanguards (100pts)
> Vanguard Alpha; Refractor Field
> 1x - Skitarii Vanguard; Omnisprex
> 3x - Skitarii Vanguard; Plasma Caliver

Ironstrider Ballistarii (110pts)
> 2x - Ironstrider Ballistarius; Twin-linked cognis lascannon

Onager Dunecrawlers (180pts)
> 2x - Onager Dunecrawler; Cognis heavy stubber, Cognis manipulator, Icarus Array, Mindscanner probe

Sicarian Ruststalkers (160pts)
> 1x - Ruststalker Princeps; Digital weapons, Infoslave Skull, Refractor Field

Sicarian Infiltrators (185pts)
> 1x - Infiltrator Princeps; Digital weapons, Infoslave Skull, Refractor Field


Cult Mechanicus Battle Congregation (555 pts)

+ HQ +

Tech-Priest Dominus (105pts) [Digital weapons, Eradication ray, Infoslave Skull, Macrostubber, Refractor field, Uncreator Gauntlet]

+ Troops +

Kataphron Destroyers (165pts)
> 3x - Kataphron Destroyer; Cognis flamer, Plasma culverin

Kataphron Destroyers (165pts)
> 3x - Kataphron Destroyer; Cognis flamer, Plasma culverin

+ Fortification +

Haemotrope Reactors (120pts) [3x Pair of Haemotrope Reactors]


Oathsworn Detachment (435pts)

+ Lord of War +

Cerastus Knight-Atrapos (435pts); Occular Augmetics

>> No.51895986

>>51895820

What the fuck did you just fucking say about me I'll have you know I'm trained in Guilliman warfare

>> No.51895988

>>51895967
That's some shit! Thank you, I was super confused. Were the chimera and basilisk bundled at some point?

>> No.51895993

>>51895947
>This weekend only?
no, but I think it is a limited run item rather than a permanently available deal

>> No.51895995

>>51895988
The basilisk uses the chimera chassis.

>> No.51896019

>>51895995
Thanks!

What's everyone else working on?

>> No.51896081

>>51895921
At least be happy you get rules representing different legions. Mean while the guard gets Cadians all day, all the time and that's it. Granted you could count DKoK and Elysians if you dip into FW.

>> No.51896088

>>51896081
reee why not chapter tactics equivalent for guard allowing you to play as any guard regiment from the fluff

>> No.51896104

>>51895954
I see 'nids on the background!

>> No.51896107

>>51896088
That's all I want really. I don't necessarily need a codex for every different regiment but goddamn let me have some shit to mix it up for running Valhallans, Mordians, you name it.

>> No.51896108

>>51895381
I think souls get "merged" with slaanesh in much the same way sandwiches get merged with me.

I mean, I like it, but I don't think the sandwich finds the process that enjoyable.

>> No.51896143

>>51895921
No, fuck off.

I'm not buying four books just to play daemons and I dont want any shit marines staining my codexes.
Shoo shoo mortal slaves

>> No.51896153

>>51895365
I'm in the same boat, I love IG fluff but the more I lurk the more I find them boring to paint and flat. I have always had a spot for nids, alternatively /tg/ is slowly luring me towards DE

>> No.51896161

Does anyone know if you can get cheaper stuff if you live in Nottingham? They have their HQ and whatnot here, never been there though

>> No.51896172

>>51896107
While I already have elysians/d-99 from FW I would love for tempestus to have a Karskin regiment tactic which them to merge with Cadians in a more uniform way.
I honestly want a harakoni warhawks to get some sort of regiment tactic like traitor legions, since their more detailed in the differences than chapter tactics (at least I think they are)

>> No.51896185

>>51896172
A supplement like Traitor Legions for IG would be great but GW seems like they were content to just sorta fart out the Cadian supplement and not bother any further.

>> No.51896204

Has there been any thought as to whether you can use the Iyanden supplement with Ynnari? I don't see anything specifically ruling it out

>> No.51896209

Lore question, how do the skitarii, titan legions, and knight houses of a forgeworld relate to one another? Are they each a seperate organization?
Cause I've noticed that the official color schemes for the skitarii and tech preists for each forgeworld don't match the corresponding titan legions.

>> No.51896223

>>51896209
They're all organizations under the Mechanicus, though IIRC the Knight houses are mostly left to their own devices.

>> No.51896254

>>51896209
From what I remember some knight houses and titan legions work differently depending on which forgeworld you're talking about, though I may be wrong
>>51896185
yeah it seems so unfortunately.
I honestly think that militarum tempestus was a mistake as it's such an underdeveloped codex that was rushed and just another "ally army".
Maybe 8th edition might do something about guard regiments

>> No.51896264

So how good a Death Star is 20 Peltasts with Cawl up front to soak damage?

>> No.51896271

R8, M8s

Combo of CC power and ranged might with a bit of gimmicky-ness and distraction.

>> No.51896273

>>51895486
Its a bit sad. They nerfed them too much.

>> No.51896294

>>51896254
Isn't part of Cawl's appeal his high toughness? Putting him into a unit of T3 models seems to kinda negate that, though I guess you could just bubble wrap him instead.

>> No.51896299

>>51895977
Bad and illegal.
Dont use plasma on katas.
Dont use multiple icarus.
Haemothropes only work on plasma pistol/gun/cannon. (Hint hint, you can have10pts servitors in cultmech elite slots)
FW-knights are illegal as a single knight in knight detachment. Yes its stupid but thats how it works.

>> No.51896311

>>51896019
My depression.

Other than that im drooling over Triviriumvate of the Imperium. Cawl is too sexy.

>> No.51896324

hey guys i'm new and would like to get started.
so people adviced getting a start collecting box. however, today i saw the cadian defence force box. how much do you save if you buy the latter?

i'm sorry for bothering you but the prices are not transparent to me yet

>> No.51896326

>>51896294
Unfortunately I believe that 40k works on majority toughness, so cawl would be counted as t3 for the purposes of to wound rolls, it is the same reason that tau do not take an iridium commander (+1T and a 2+ armour save) since the suit is T5 and the drones remain T4, making the entire unit T4 until 1 drone remains. So Cawl's appeal is that he is alone a high toughness model and that his canticles are really good for IG when run with them
>>51896299
so how can you run fw knights?
>>51896019
Working on magnetising my suits, so hard to find small drill bits to make holes where I live, and the only hobby store that does have them is run by cunts with shitty unethical customer service, though that's a story for another time

>> No.51896334

>>51896324
well are you set on starting IG, from what you're saying it seems you haven't even picked a faction yet and are just looking for what's on sale, I suggest taking a look at the factions and/or asking tg for a rundown of them, I'll also happily help you with my knowledge which encompasses most factions with a generic-ish rundown

>> No.51896339

>>51896204
Other than the fact that its supplement for the Craftworld Eldar? You can use supplement for Space Marines or Tyranids with the same line of logic.

>> No.51896341

>>51896326
That's exactly what I meant though about Cawl. By bubble wrapping him I mean just positioning the unit around him. Keep him from getting charged while also being an intervening model.

>> No.51896348

>>51896019
Magnetization of all the weapons and head choices for my Tribune.

Also waiting on 15 Custodes, 2 Ixion Hales(one for converting!), 1 Caladius Grav Tank, and 2 Contemptor Galatus modes.

Not enough gold.

>> No.51896356

>>51896254
>>51896223

I'm mostly asking to try and figure out if I need to come up with different color schemes and iconography for my AdMech, knights, and my warhound.

>> No.51896357

>using phone to browse 4chan
autismus maximus

>> No.51896364

>>51896356
Use whatever color schemes you want. You don't need to but if you want to you can. Alternatively if you want to make them all the same have at it. Literally nobody will say you're wrong for having them all painted the same way.

>> No.51896371

>>51896271
Looks really good, but what points level are you playing at?

>> No.51896372

>>51896364
*You don't need to paint them differently but if you want to you can*

>> No.51896378

>>51896371
Thank you. 2K as the list shows.

>> No.51896380

>>51896341
Ah ok, sorry I'm a bit dyslexic in my reading, um well you should be bubble wrapping him behind tanks, since his canticles can help them and also provide portable cover with their profiles, at least that's how I'd run him if I had a tank IG army, I play elysians so I don't have any use for any of the special characters since I deep strike everything and have no ground vehicles.
>>51896356
I'd say that between the titans and the rest you'd want some differentiation, since knights and titans aren't usually deployed together if I remember correctly, otherwise no one is that autistic to care and sperg out over it, and I'd think it would be cool to have a combined mech/knight/titan sort of thing.

>> No.51896383

>>51895921
>>51896081
>>51896088
>>51896107
>>51896172
>>51896185

Don't mind me, just one of the original races who got a codex in rogue trader with no rules in it, just fluff about our very very different 5 factions.

Watching you imperials and "real threat" chaos guys complain about your options.

>> No.51896385

>>51896380
I'm imagining an Apocalypse game with 10-12 Knights and 4-5 Titans running around on one side would be fucking awesome.

>> No.51896392

>>51896380
Actually I fucked up originally by quoting the wrong post
I meant to quote >>51896264

>> No.51896397

>>51896378
your list is illegal then, you're 2pts over the limit

>> No.51896414

>>51896383
I'm the elysian/d-99 guy and I feel for you, at least you got a shit update over time, I haven't had an update since IA4 2nd edition, how long ago was that?
>>51896385
well then the same colour scheme could work for differentiate forge worlds if you aren't the only one with all of those units.
If you do own 10-12 knights and 4-5 titans
>I wish I could afford that kind of army
>>51896392
No problem anon, I though so but I decided to try to help anyway, hope I was of some use

>> No.51896416

>>51896397

>> No.51896421

>>51896299
> Haemothropes only work on plasma pistol/gun/cannon
> FW-knights are illegal as a single knight in knight detachment.

shit that sucks

>> No.51896425

>>51896294

Yeah, but they functionally count as T4, and he gets to reroll 1s on his 2+ save and rerollable FNP.

And of course his auto-restore D3 wounds per turn trick.

>> No.51896429

>>51896416
since when does 2 points ever do something?
>neuroweb system jammer
one game I watched had 23 conscripts die to gets hot because of it, fucking hilarious

>> No.51896444

>>51896414
I own 5 Knights and 2 Warhounds, sadly.

>> No.51896456

>>51896429
Kek.

I know he's baiting but generally 2-3 points over is fair enough. Not many armies have singular shit that can be taken for less than 5 points, so you'll often find yourself either 2 points above or 3 points below. My rules is that as long as by taking it, you're using more of your legal points as opposed to illegal, it's ok so long as it doesn't go over 5.

Example: Taking a 5 pointer at 1997 is cool, since you're using 3/5 legal points. Taking a 15 pointer at 1987 is also ok, 13/15. Taking a 5 pointer at 1998 is frowned upon but if you can excuse it, might be cool. Taking a 5 pointer at 1999 is a no-go.

In the case of the armies that do have sub-5 singular wargear, I'd ask them to remove it.

>> No.51896462

>>51896414
The ultramarine equivalent of orks, (Goffs), get a new codex all the time.

I'm the one remaining jackass snakebite player who wanted to go full noble savage. I don't have my trademark units in my own codex. I have to use space marine counts-as to play my faction.

space yiffs with lots of thunderwolf cavalry, fenrisian wolf packs, etc. Sometimes a vindicator "squiggoth"

Having said that, I feel for you, at least the orks can kitbash anything they want using anyone else's kits.

>> No.51896470

>>51896444
>5 knights and 2 warhounds
>sadly
>sadly
kek anon, made me laugh and cry at the same time, enjoy your army.
>>51896456
I simply ask my opponent how much his list is, incase it is over/under by 1-2 points, then add/subtract if I can.
But yeah, seems like a good rule

>> No.51896477

>>51896425
They're still getting wounded on 2s at a much wider range of weapons. You'd also be making him much more vulnerable to plasma weapons. Even with the -1S they'd wound the unit on 2s whereas Cawl would only take a wound on a 3+. Someone would need to run the numbers really.

>> No.51896482

>>51896470
Your rule is fine too, especially if they can't find anything to subtract, but as I said few army have sub-5 wargear so you might find yourself going over their points as well, but that's up to personal experience.

It's an easy issue to fix, anyway. Glad my list is good, honestly I didn't even put much thought into it. I just have a bunch of Chaos models that don't fit into my Thousand Sons theme so I decided to slap together a list I can use them in. Pretty fucking cool result if I have to say. Also gives me the opportunity to scratchbuild the Rapiers and Predator turrets/sponsons.

>> No.51896492

>>51896470
It's not an army as much as it is a friend-loser.

I've had the titans for 4 years and people grown everytime they both pop up.

No one likes 2 Double Barreled Turbo Lasers, a Vulcan Megabolter, and a Plasma Blastgun.

Even when I magnetize for 4 Flamers people still act like I'm evil.

>> No.51896493

>>51896104
Haha, you caught me. Trying to pad my 'nids with some GSC to help break my losing streak
[spoilers]Also I like their fluff...[/spoilers]

>> No.51896500

>>51895066
Why are the rules archives such terrible messes?

Seems like we found the one place where /tg/ has insufficient autism.

>> No.51896506

>>51896326
>so how can you run fw knights
-as LoW-choice in other armies.
-as choice in knight detachment if you have as much or more "normal" knights.

>> No.51896511

>>51896444
Squad of Leman's with battle cannons - one 1s Blast shot is not fired and 50% to remove hull point.
2 freaking points.

>> No.51896513

>>51896311
You can break it, anon! I think a lot of us are depressive to some degree, but completing something feels really good.

>> No.51896525

>>51896326
Oof, best to order bits online, I suppose. I recommend aliexpress, bits are super cheap on there. Get magnets while you're at it, too. Everywhere else seems like robbery

>> No.51896538

>>51896462
are those the orks from IA8?
>>51896492
Find someone else with titans/titan class shit (chaos/eldar/tau/idk who else) and play them so that the game is fairly balanced
>>51896482
scratchbuilding/converting is always fun, hope it works out well

>> No.51896545

>>51896477
Nigga think. He has rerollable 2+ and rerollable 5+. He can tank ~113 wounds before taking a wound. Or ~5 before against ap2 weapons.

>> No.51896550

>>51896348
Ho damn. Good luck anon. I am putting magnets all over this Chimera, but it sounds like way more work on your end.

>> No.51896564

>>51896506
oh ok, can you run a single cerastus knight atropos, or do you need multiple knights for it.
>>51896525
thanks, though shipping to Aus is kind of aids time and price wise, magnets aren't expensive from china either, $2.33 for 200 2mmx1mm magnets is cheap enough for me

>> No.51896566

>>51896513
Yeah I'll activate again after hitting gym. Who would have thought that my tendecy to mathmatical autism could make me seriously enjoy lifting weights...

>> No.51896582

>>51896357
B-but anon, I'm making bagels. I can't computer _and_ bagel.

>> No.51896590

>>51896564
> Codex: Imperial Knights: Cerastus Knight-Atrapos may be chosen as part of a Codex: Imperial Knights army as you would other types of Knight. However, owing to their rarity in the 41st Millennium, you may not have more Cerastus Knight-Atrapos in your army than you have Knights of other kinds.

So, bare minimum is 1 GW knight and 1 FW Knight

>> No.51896595

>>51896456
I'm using this. TY anon.

>> No.51896601

>>51896545
It's not exceedingly difficult to bring a bunch of ap2 weapons, and the hoplites behind him would be fairly easy to kill with large blasts/barrage or flanking. I guess it could be cheesy if your opponent is retarded and only attacks head on.

>> No.51896614

>>51896421
wait a sec, I just reread the BRB. weapons displayed are just examples. So AdMech plasma weapons totally work with haemotrope reactors.

>> No.51896622

>>51896590
well that's fucking cancer, I run an allied detachment of elysians since my main force is d-99 and they can't take LOW, so does that mean I can't run an atropos at all?

>> No.51896630

>>51896538
>are those the orks from IA8?
Not really.
Sorta for the last two pages: they have a shout out to snakebite MCs, but they're explicitly few and owned by the non-snakebite faction in the book. It's really just a shout out to models they've already produced.

>> No.51896633

>>51896601
Yeah its not unstoppable in any sense. But adding cawl to any unit will make it much more tanky. Doing 9 ap2 wounds is not exactly easy on some armies and cawl can take 1 wound every turn because he always regens it back.

>> No.51896639

>>51896614
Read the rules for the reactors. By raw you cant use other than those three.

>> No.51896652

>>51896582
that's... that's actually super legit. carry on

>> No.51896668

>>51895307
You couldn't charge skimmers as far as I remember..

>> No.51896678

>>51896668
and they were treated as flyers for the purposes of shooting

>> No.51896687

>>51896223
Fluff wise Knights have their own tech priests who are different in mentality from Mechanicus
Of course then they mess up the fluff by having knight houses on Mars and other forgeworlds and yet somehow mechanicum don't know how their stuff works

>> No.51896688

1000 point capture the relic tournament tomorrow.
Time for ice skating

>> No.51896694

>>51896639
Excuse me ?

>> No.51896731

>>51896595
My pleasure buddy.

>>51896582
I'll have 2, look really good!

>> No.51896755

>>51896688
I always like seeing kharn getting some play. Good luck anon.
>>51896731
If you're in Seattle(ish), come on by.

>> No.51896756

>>51896694
Yes. Says plasmaweapons and points to rulebook. Rulebook lists those three.

Its huge can of worms if people would allow all "plasma" weapons to be amplified. Most of tau basic weapons are plasms. Do you want riptidewing firing 72 blasts per turn because burst weapons are plasma?

>> No.51896798

>>51896756

Weapons with Plasma in the actual name should likely benefit.

Ah, the wonders of GW not quite getting it's own rules.

>> No.51896817

>>51896756
>>51896798

The FAQ on the Plasma Syphon in the Inquisition book says it works on plasma weapons as defined in the rulebook "and weapons with plasma in the name/description" IIRC, which is a decent precedent. Also makes no sense that the Admech can't use the reactor they build with their logo plastered all over it.

>> No.51896823

>>51896817
That'd be useful if Haemotropic Reactors said (as defined by the Plasma Syphon FAQ)

>> No.51896828

>>51896817

I do wonder how this shit happens. Does no one at GW ever sit down and go 'Hey, did we actually define what flamer/plasma weapons means?'

>> No.51896839

>>51896823

Why would a rulebook reference an FAQ?

The FAQ is a clarification of another thing that made the same reference as this bit of equipment.

>> No.51896847

>>51896823
Show me a rule that says it doesn't work on plasma cavaliers

>> No.51896858

Opinions on this list for competitive.
Added corvus instead of a single librarian (command and company masters go in it. Company master has Blade of the Worthy instead of Relic Blade and meltabombs)

>> No.51896861

>>51896828
Alpha Legion get a relic that gives 2+ and a 2++ against flamers. I know there's templates weapons with ap2, do any of them count as flamers (this relic also costs 30 fucking points)

>> No.51896863

>>51896847
Plasma calivers are not a plasma weapon as defined by the Warhammer 40k Rulebook, only by the Skitarii Codex.

>> No.51896872

>>51896828
I have no idea how FAQs aren't more common. Surely all you need to do is get two or three relevant rules writers in a room to talk this stuff over and decide what they meant by that. Forgeworld stuff especially, new HH book is really badly written.

>>51896823

Well, no, it doesn't , but it gives a precedent on what GW considers a "Plasma weapon" which IIRC is decent. Besides, that rules out the vast majority of plasma weapons in the game anyway, so it's completely idiotic that it would only work on those three.

>> No.51896876

>>51896861
25 points. But still

>> No.51896877

>>51896861
>(this relic also costs 30 fucking points)

It's worth it for the 2+ armour save alone. Slap it on a Daemon Prince and you're set.

>> No.51896881

>>51896861

SOB can get Rending Flamers with a faith power so that's an exceedingly rare case where it helps.

>> No.51896885

I really wish AdMech had a well-rounded Elite melee unit that isn't 300+ points monstrous creatures, a bunch of glasscannon assassins or a horde of tiny guys.

Would love to try a melee AdMech list with Phosphor support fire to enable easy charges, Vanguard as -1 Toughness fodder and using a Tech-Priest with the Pseudogenerator as the HQ combatant. Canticles giving up to 3 WS and allowing you to re-roll misses could make this shit pretty fucking brutal.

>> No.51896888

>>51896877
That's true but at that point you might as well go with the iron warriors one that dives iwnd

>> No.51896892

>>51896755
Haha, afraid not. In Southern Europe.

Would be lovely if I could teleport, be here on my bed doing some writing and take a break by popping over for a bagel and a chat across the world.

>> No.51896894

>>51896863
The codex overrules the main rulebook when in conflict.
They're plasma weapons.

>> No.51896898

>>51896872
>it's completely idiotic that it would only work on those three.
Then GW is certain to FAQ it if it's counter to their intent.

>>51896847
Plasma calivers are not "defined in Warhammer 40.000: The Rules".

Neither are Plasma Executiones/Destructors/Star-cannons or Plasma rifles or various plasma weapon relics.

>> No.51896901

>>51896888
Or the Night Lord one that buffs your cover saves. Sure, there's better alternatives out there. But you primarily take these things for the 2+ save, not the secondary effect, and switching up one set of army-wide rules for another (which might not fit your fluff or play style) just to get a slightly better secondary effect for one model might not be appealing to many players.

>> No.51896909

>>51896894
>The codex overrules the main rulebook when in conflict.
No conflict, they aren't even mentioned.

>> No.51896918

>>51896894
Except that's not relevant because it's not the Codex and Rulebook being in contention, it's just the Haemotrope rules. It affects plasma weapons as defined in the 40k Rulebook.

And yes, I get that you think that's dumb and that it shouldn't work that way, but it should be no surprise at this point that GW sometimes puts out rules that have little connection to "common" sense.

>> No.51896928

>>51896918
There's an faq though isn't there

>> No.51896929

>>51896909
>>51896918
>codex says they're plasma weapons
>main rulebook says they're not
They're plasma weapons.

>> No.51896945

>>51896929
The reactor rules say that they only work with Plasma weapons as defined by the rulebook. It doesn't point you towards plasma weapons defined by codexes. It's retarded, and any sensible group will use the precedent set by the Plasma Siphon FAQ, but if we're looking at hard RAW then only the plasma weapons listed in the core rulebook get the bonus.

>> No.51896954

>>51896929
This isn't even worth arguing anon. Go get a houserule for your club if it concerns you for casual play, and email your local tournament organisers if you want a serious ruling.

>> No.51896967

>>51896945
The codex overrules what is defined as a plasma weapon in the main rulebook.

That list now includes plasma cavaliers regardless of whether it's actually written there.

>> No.51896979

>>51896967
>The codex overrules what is defined as a plasma weapon in the main rulebook.

But the codex doesn't come into things. At no point in the reactor rules are you pointed towards the codex.

>> No.51896997

>>51896979
So what?

They're plasma weapons as defined by the 40k rulebook.
The codex changes the 40k rulebook's definition of plasma weapons.

>> No.51896999

Why can't GW just do the usual card game approach of classifying weapons by "archetypes"? Just give every Plasma, Flamer, Las, Power, Force and Melta weapon a classification like "Melee" has ot (and Force and Melta already have) and didcussioms like this would no longer happen.
Alternatively, just add a line to all of those weapons stating "A weapon with 'Plasma' in its name is affected by an rule refering to Plasma weapons." And then give unique weapons a "This weapon is always treated as a Plasma weapon as defined by the core rulebook".

>> No.51897024

>>51896999

Because that would be sane.

>> No.51897030

>>51896999
>implying GW knows the first thing about game design

>> No.51897035

>>51896756
nigga u dum

>> No.51897049

>>51896929
Does skitarii codex actually say that? Like, "they count as plasma weapons" in rules text?

If not then they arent.

>> No.51897069

>>51897035
Please dont shitpost. Pulse weapons (and riptides heavy burst cannon) are plasma weapons.

>> No.51897106

>>51896999
Nice trips, and that's a good idea.

While I agree with you. I think the way the rules are written is pretty good for the most part.

>> No.51897135

>>51897049

>> No.51897136

>>51897049
Dont tell me...

The reason no one is answering this is because none of you actually own the codex and are just arguing to arguments sake?

>> No.51897147

>>51896892
Well it was worth a shot. These will definitely be gone tomorrow. How's Southern Europe this time of year?

>> No.51897155

>>51897049
Even Suncannons don't say that shit, why would they? If they shoot plasma they're plasma. Do you need to have everything spelled out?

>> No.51897167

>>51897049
>>51897135

so, what you're saying that they're called plasma <name>, have the same base stats as BRB plasma weapons, same special rule (gets hot) as BRB plasma weapons, but they're actually NOT plasma weapons?

>> No.51897356

>>51897167
By RAW, no.

Like it has been stated, it would create weird situations if all fluffwise plasma weapons wouldwork. Even Taunar would get a boost.

>> No.51897370

>>51897356
Why wouldn't they? If they captured it, they would use it, same as anyone else

>> No.51897389

>>51897370
Okay then.


Oh and my terminators are immune to your plasma weapons. They are built to withstand insides if plasma reactors. So your s7 ap2 weapons cant hurt me.

[Spoiler]Lets not do this since if we go retard, were gonna go full retard and see how deep this rabbit hole goes.[/spoiler]

>> No.51897399

>>51896858

Company champion is useless when you can take a melta, plasma or grav gun.

I'm not sure the company master is better than a librarian + a better weapon for the razorback

Also land speeders are lame if you dont use 2 flamer / 2 melta speeders

The corvus seems unjustified for a shitty SoB squad.

I'd also add a drop pod for the command squad

>> No.51897437

>>51896223
I wonder how tou move up in the mechanicus and pick your focus? Is it like college where tou choose a major, or do you get assigned to it? How do flesh bags join the cult, and does their particular sect and points of faith determine which group the join?

>> No.51897447

>>51897389
Wrong, they were built to withstand the heat from plasma reactors, not plasma itself.

AND you fucked up your spoiler

>> No.51897458

>>51897389
hah, fair enough :D
btw, seems this same discussion has been around since the reactor has been announced, without any general consensus, afaics

>> No.51897485

>>51895169
I'd rather just take 2 Deathstrikes for the same thing with unlimited range...

>> No.51897582

>>51897437
It's largely a meritocracy with apprenticeships, so magos' form various fields will pick up promising acolytes.

The one's that don't stand out will drudge away unspecialized for decades or even centuries doing generic tasks, wiping servitors's asses, manual data entry and overseeing the non-cult workers.

>> No.51897601

Will we ever get a combined ad mech codex?

>> No.51897642

>>51897601
no

>> No.51897648

>>51897601
I sure hope so. But I guess now we have to wait and see what'll they do in 8ed, since some of the rumours claim they'll ditch the individual codices altogether

>> No.51897661

>>51895301
Unfortunately, for those points, you could just deep strike 100 gargoyles instead...

>> No.51897691

So can anyone share new Mephiston book please?

>> No.51897722

>>51895921
Dear GW, before you cater to this selfish shitlord, I want Tau auxiliaries. Tau is more important to the setting than Chaos, anyway.

>> No.51897770

Question.

If I am running the Castellans of the Imperium formation and a unit dies but is placed in reserves while I have a flyer, can that flyer be used as a transport if it goes into reserves/comes back?

>> No.51897783

>>51897722
Excuse me?

>> No.51897790

>>51897691
dude, that comes out in spetember. can't you google shit?

>> No.51897831

How and why is it C'tan are as powerful as they are?

>> No.51897838

>>51897661
Sure...but gargoyles aren't actually flying and don't shoot 12 S10 AP2 shots, and I can transport the 'goyles on the harridan so they land where I'd like.

...Not even accounting for what a mishap nightmare 100 gargoyles would be, but I know what you mean.

Still, I've had good luck with the thing and was building the list around him, if you don't mind taking that into account with your criticism.

>> No.51897850

>>51897722
I couldn't even be bothered to find a "bait" picture, but here's your (you).

>> No.51897854

>>51897790
You're wrong. Look at BL site.

>> No.51897855

Late reply, but GSC is probably your better bet. You still get some gribbly monsters, but your model count is lower and your army is much more competitive. Plus you can just ally in whatever MCs you want.

>> No.51897859

>>51897855
To whom are you replying?

>> No.51897885

>>51897854
huh, you're right. simon&schuster are publishing it in paperback in sept. my bad

>> No.51897893

>>51897831
Don't they eat suns? I'm not sure on the "why", though. I'll bet someone knows for sure, but asscreatures made of energy seems like a pretty pervasive 40k trope.

>> No.51897894

>>51897855
Whoopsie. This gentleman here.

>>51895365

>> No.51897898

>>51897838
Fair enough, I wasn't actually suggesting that, just lamenting the horrible cost of Tyranid Superheavies.

In terms of actual criticism, there's really not very much to add or take away - everything is either barebones or has necessary upgrades. Lictors have good synergy with mawlocs, fkyrants are flyrants, the mucolid have to be there.

Honestly, for what you want too do, it's pretty optimised.

>> No.51897909

QUICK WHAT'S YOUR FAVORITE ARMY TO FIGHT AGAINST AND WHY?

>> No.51897917

>>51897909
GK BECAUSE I HAZ PLASMA GRAV AND CULEXUS

>> No.51897928

>>51897909
WAR CONVOCATION BECAUSE I PLAY WAR CONVOCATION AND ITS A PERFECT MIRROR MATCH.

>> No.51897932

Salamander army

I have an ironclad 10 sternguard 5 assault terminators

Honor guard command squad or Vanguard

I know jump packs aren't fluffy but as far as filling a role I don't have models for what's the best bet

>> No.51897942

>>51897831
They're probably the most under-explained part of 40k lore, for their importance to the overall story.

As we understand it, they're basically the equivalent of massive warp entities (ie Gods), but exist solely in realspace. Like any energy beings, they need to feed to sustain themselves, but because they only exist in the Materium, they need actual energy instead of shit like worship and emotions. As a result, they suck stars dry and devour the souls of sapient races.

I suppose they're as powerful as they are just by their nature as beings that have to eat stars to survive.

>> No.51897957

>>51897942
like a 40k Galactus

>> No.51897967

Triumverate of da WAAAGH! when?
Seriously, is every faction going to get a batch of heroes in this new campaign?

>> No.51897968

>>51896456
So if I take 200 points at 1899, that's cool because the majority (101) of the points I'm taking are legal.

The problem with your system is that it assumed the last item in the list building is the one up for audit. But the list isn't an "order" it's a whole. Point limits are point limits, and if your opponent agreed to them and adjusted his list to meet the goal, you're being a shitbird by going over at all.

Having a general rule on points is terrible in general, since the books were made so many years apart and the power creep during this edition alone is fucking ridiculous.

I tend to base pointing on my opponent's lists, but even that is iffy. I play Tau, so if my opponent brings riptides I'll counter in kind. Some armies, like orks or dark eldar, I tend to ask them to go 15-200 over points, depending on the value of the game, with more leeway if I feel like playing with my bigger new units and less leeway if I'm playing rail/mech infantry.
I like to loose to swarm nids, so I'll play 950 against 1250 with this one guy a lot. Last stands can be a lot of fun, and I consider it a win if I last 6 turns.
Eldar, daemons, and more than a few marines need to fucking curb their shit though. I know some marine and eldar lists are OK, but I'm not tolerating this 3 points over shit with grav/wraith spam. Make the limit or play someone else, WAACfags.

>> No.51897974

>>51897957
Pretty much yeah. No explanation for how or why they exist, they just do, and they go around fucking things up.

>> No.51897976

>>51897967
I honestly doubt it even if I'd love to see it.

I would expect a Chaos Triunvirate, and probably that's all.

>> No.51897981

>>51897967
gathering storm will have 3 books. after that, we don't know anything

>> No.51897986

>>51897898
They are goddamn expensive for doing...not much in general. A storm surge is 360 points base, ffs. I'd take the heirophant if it were 700 points, but as it stands it's impossible to take outside Apoc and even there is does nothing, although that upgrade for the apocalyptic barrage is fun.

TY for the criticism; I was hoping it was decent/optimized, but it's hard to tell what to take sometimes when building around a single model...

>> No.51897987

>>51895066

Any spoilers yet about Girlyman's return?

>> No.51897994

>>51897909
ORKS BECAUSE I ALWAYS WIN

>> No.51898009

>>51897850
>>51897783
Only the bits about being more important to the setting was bait.

>> No.51898037

>>51897968
>So if I take 200 points at 1899, that's cool because the majority (101) of the points I'm taking are legal.
No, re-read:
>it's ok so long as it doesn't go over 5.

>The problem with your system is that it assumed the last item in the list building is the one up for audit
Not at all. You find what costs enough for you to fix the point overspill, weigh the pros and cons of each and remove something to go down to an acceptable limit.

>Point limits are point limits, and if your opponent agreed to them and adjusted his list to meet the goal, you're being a shitbird by going over at all.
So even codexes that are weaker should adhere to this and go underpoints if they're going over. Judging by your comment about how its underfair due to powercreep, I'm assuming you defending weaker books. In which case you're basically demanding a weaker book to play below the limit or modify their list (which could be inefficient) in order to play.

The rest is your preference, really. If it works for you and your opponents without making enemies, all the power to you. My way works for me.

>> No.51898042

>>51897968
I wanted to hate you when you said you play tau and base your lists off you opponents' but then you said you like to lose to nids and that changed my mind.

I agree and think perhaps the solution is "the majority of points are legal of your cheapest list item/upgrade. I regularly play a tau player who is over by 5 points and I know it's so he can add skyfire to fuck my flyrants even further and I try not to be an ass about it, but I make him fix it.

>> No.51898050

A friend of mine is wanting to run farsight enclaves, any ideas for how to make that a flavorful "your dudes" style? We decided that any of the 8 showing up would be like the avengers coming to help out

>> No.51898063

>>51898037
Oh, other other anon...I forgot you said that. I definitely still like your system

>> No.51898079

>>51898050
Paint them in "finding nemo" colors and give them equivalent fluff.

>> No.51898102

>>51898042
>>51898063
yeah see that kinda shit is poor form. It doesn't go over 5, but most armies have plenty of 5-pointers to remove. Being a dickhole is a moral faux pas but it's not against the game's rules. However you better get rid of a 5-pointer from somewhere cause that is.

>> No.51898129

>>51897967
Orks have nothing that is worth putting in those three slots, that wouldn't just be a remake of an earlier model.

Make it 3 generic boys and it will be the exact same crap that Ork lore is capable of producing.

No Daemon-Angels or Primarchs for Orks.

>> No.51898171

>>51898050
the Enclaves have almost fully embraced the Mont'ka method of Tau warfare, so your army will want to be highly mobile and fast-striking. Fire Warriors in Devilfish to rush enemy positions, crisis teams dedicated to eliminating priority targets. Riptides will be rare if even existent (fluff-wise, XV104s are hard enough to make as is, and the Enclaves lack the resources of the main Empire) and Ghostkeels/Stormsurges/Ta'Unars haven't been leaked to the rebels yet. The Eight in its entirety is very expensive, but one of them could lead the cadre's XV8 complement.

>> No.51898184

>>51897987
Nothing we don't already know, sadly. The usual rumor factories are pretty quiet on this one.

>> No.51898226

>>51896858
Can't start in Allied Transports, brah. I don't even think the SoB can start in the Corvus since the Castellans aren't their own faction.

>> No.51898256

>>51898037
The weaker dexes are so far apart that even 5 points over isn't going to actually be balanced, anyway. But if you've agreed to a point limit, you've agreed to a point limit. If 2 points over isn't going to break the game, 3 under isn't, either, but one is "more legal" than the other.

If your goal is to actually balance your list and your opponents list, though, you often need to dip well beyond the 5 point leeway.

>>51898042
I enjoy "Survive the wave" type games, and it's seems thematically fitting against nids.

"List tailoring" has these huge negative connotations because of WAACfags, but that's like saying that fire is bad because of arsonists. You can use that shit to keep things warm and comfy, too, as long as you're careful.

Next edition, though I'll be back to point-for-point until I get a feel of the general power levels again.

>>51898050
You write "YOUR DUDES," and then when putting together your detachment say that it's a Farsight Enclaves detachment.

FSE is fairly well defined in that it's got four major worlds, but the color schemes of those world's armies aren't well defined, and there are a few less important worlds. Like the rest of Tau, though, it's pretty poorly defined. 90% of the FSE book is Farsight's personal biography and sometimes it feels like the other 10% is about how mad Shadowsun is. How shit actually operates there is anybody's guess, and how many private armies there are is up in the air, too.

>> No.51898297

How to build a fluffy Cadian Battlegroup? I was thinking a command squad, tank company, and an Emperor's blade with an aeronatica detachment for a flyer at 1850 points

>> No.51898301

>>51898050
>We decided that any of the 8 showing up would be like the avengers coming to help out
Outside of fluff, The Eight really...aren't that good at all.
Farsight's obviously good, but the rest all have a weird unintuitive combination of wargear that really doesn't work out together. The Riptide has the Pilot Array despite running the Ion Accelerator, the Broadside taxes a Seeker Missile, the Commanders all either mix weapons or simply have one (other than random Flamers), and everything comes with lots of Drones which is fucking fatal for the Riptide.

Not that the wargear isn't amazing on its own. Fusion Blades are insane, the Talisman lets you Deny on a fucking 4+, and Warscaper alongside Supporting Fire means you'll never be charged.

>> No.51898324

>>51896088

Took GW an entire edition and 3 fucking years to realise that Chapter Tactic equivalents for Chaos was a good idea when they already knew it from back in 3rd. You expect them to have common sense for Guard?

>> No.51898377

I bought a giant worm and I've got more wargear on the tyrant.
I modeled the actual tyrant with a strangler, lash whip and bonesword but I'm not paying 20 points for the sword and whip.

The more pinning I have the more likely it is I can pin someone, they wont be able to shoot me and I dont get a penalty for charging them through terrain.

>> No.51898385

>>51898301
>Talisman lets you Deny on a fucking 4+
Good luck with that. Almost all of the good powers aren't Witchfires or Malediction, that only protects one unit, AND they'll have far more dice than you will.

>> No.51898406

>>51898385
It also gives the Commander a 5++ (combine it with the Iridium Battlesuit and your Commander will be almost as tough as a Riptide).
Either way, for an army with NO Psykers, it gives you some level of protection you otherwise wouldn't have.

>> No.51898437

>>51898377
How casual is your meta?

>> No.51898442

>>51898297
Cadian Battlegroup is just terribad detachment ruleswise. Dont use it if you can.

Other option could be Castellans-detachment. Add something like Inquisitor Coteaz and its much better.

>> No.51898464

>>51898437
Pretty casual.
Very melee focused.

>>51898377
That reminds me, if I use the deepstrike attack to smash a transport and destroy it, can't they just disembark on top of the Mawloc to make it mishap?

>> No.51898472

>>51898377
Your Elites and Fast Attack are fine.
Split the Carnifex Brood into two and your Heavy Support is fine.

HQ and Troops are awful and should be reworked.

>> No.51898511

How terrible of an idea is it for me, as IG, to load up on Scions with volley guns, stick an Auger Array on something like a Hellhound, and bumrush it at the enemy's troops?

I love Scions, but I hate the risk associated with deep striking. I want to use the auger to DS my shit within rapidfire range without having to worry about having something stupid happen because of scatter and losing the whole unit. Volley guns lose half their firepower if I have to move into position due to being salvo.

>> No.51898532

>>51898511
HSVG command squad on a mid or backfield objective is better.

Deep strikers should have plas or melta.

>> No.51898544

>>51895532

frustrating for low tier armies to play against and trivially easy for high tier armies.

also seen as ultra cheesy waac bullshit in friendly games.

>> No.51898557

>>51898442
Why is it so bad?should I stick with CAD?

>> No.51898567

>>51895108
>>51895140
>>51895169
>>51897485

I want to start a mech focused Space army with 3 - 6 vindicators and a shit load of rhinos

Would this be a fun army to play against?

Would I be hated?

>> No.51898571

I just had my first game with my Sisters of Battle, although it was 500 points Sisters as my primary detachment and 500 points of Imperial Guard allies. I played it against a Death Guard formation, and it was really even all the way to the end. Unfortunately I think most of the work was done by my IG half and the Exorcist. The best moment of the game was when his Chaos Lord on 1 wound suffered a death from his Daemon Weapon.
What I learned from this game was to equip my HQ for close combat, she spent 3 turns trying to kill a Nurgle Sorcerer on 1 wound.

>> No.51898608

>>51898571
Or don't get your Hq into CC and force the enemy to run after you.

>> No.51898648

>>51898129
MC Primork
Named wierdbo(ss/y)
Named mek

>> No.51898649

>>51898608
But then I would have been giving the objective to him
Honestly the way Death Guard just took everything I shot at them was kinda discouraging
Meltas, lascannons, plasma cannons...
There needs to be more ways to remove FnP

>> No.51898670

>>51898171
WOrth noting, he wanted to play up the low resource rebellion feel, with lots of patched up custom looking suits, using some third party parts for some distinctively non regulation looking units

>> No.51898689

>>51898649
Isn't FnP negated by double strength, or do Death Guard have T5 like I just realized they did?

>> No.51898724

>>51898689
Exactly

>> No.51898727

>>51898689
>or do Death Guard have T5 like I just realized they did?

They do, so bringing a Leman Russ Demolisher might be worth it.

The problem with Death Guard is most people don't actually play them like Death Guard should be played. Rather than a slowly advancing, footslogging wall of infantry, they take the absolute minimum number of troops choices they can get away with, and spam T6 bike deathstars.

>> No.51898743

>>51898727
I certainly didn't have that problem in my game. He even used Chaos Spawns.

>> No.51898748

>>51898649
I'd consider having poison and other fixed wound roll attacks bypass, or at least lower FNP.

>> No.51898814

>>51898748
Honestly I don't think FNP needs to be any easier to get around. It's already too easy for many units to be shot to death long before they get halfway down the table. GW just needs to be more cautious when applying it to units with T5 or higher.

>> No.51898815

>>51898727
That don't sound very thematic.

Personally i go with couple of 7 strong tacs with PF champ.
Slowly advancing AC devs
Powerschythe deathshroud wannabes
Bikers will be included but as flankers, not to carry the army.

>> No.51898837

>>51898727
>the way it should be played

at this point min/max is a way of life for all the armies. i'm not sure my fluffy slaanesh daemons or biel-tan eldar are actually fluffy these days

>> No.51898858

>>51898727
>>51898837

>mfw the fluffy way to play necrons is also the most effective

>> No.51898898

Sort-of-Newfag here, coming back to the hobbie after years;

I'm torn between Skitarii or Dark Eldar.

I built some Skitarii Vanguard at Christmas (lured by their assault 3 weapons), but I recently found a partially complete Dark Eldar Battleforce box, with the raider and reavers still in it, whilst cleaning out my stuff when my parents kicked me out.

Payday yesterday so I was either going to get some wytches/kabalites to kitbash or another box of vanguard. I love the Dark Eldar cyberpunk feel and their whole 'Fey Folk' fluff a lot more than the pretty limited Skitarii fluff, but reading about actual crunch on 1d4chan and other websites, seems like Dark Eldar are not doing so well gameplay-wise in the current edition.

Am I better off sticking with an infantry-heavy Skitarii force I had planned, or is the Dark Eldar's lack of capability exaggerated and I can follow my heart and go Adarki Aeldari without getting curbstomped everytime I try to play a game?

Are infantry-heavy Dark Eldar viable? I don't own a car so transporting armies with loads of transports, particularly ones as large and fragile as Raiders, on a bicycle is pretty tricky.

>> No.51898911

>>51898815
I usually have 3 bikers for objectiv grabbing and unexpected plasma fire. 9 Chosen with 2 melta 3 plasma and a sorcerer are a very good all rounder unit.

Against Space Wolves at least.

>> No.51898937

>>51898532
Plasma is generally not worth it to me over HSVG because the local meta is all Necrons, all the time. Anything I normally come up against that can't be beaten by AP3 has an invul save anyway. S7 versus S4 sure, but one shot vs four shots. Sadly I don't think FRFSRF works with HSVG, but it would make them even better.

I have way, way better options for dealing with vehicles than melta Scions. I generally run a Vendetta, and a lot of the time a Command/Pask Vanquisher. The Vendetta might as well be invincible against some of the lists I face.

>> No.51898958

>>51898898
>cyberpunk
cybergoth

hellions even got dreadlocks and gasmasks

>> No.51898959

>>51898858
Massed warriors with immortal core, overlord with bodyguard and wall of monoliths?

>> No.51898983

>>51898937
Then I'd say 1 MTCS with 4x HSVG and one normal squad with 2x HSVG just chilling on objectives.

>> No.51899015

>>51896861
If anyone happens to have rending flamers of some kind or a Malcador Infernus.

>> No.51899020

If Emps had rules, assuming they would be pre-throne (30k), obviating the statlibe, what would his psycker-level be? 6 having in count Magnus as a demon prince in 40k is 5 (and I doubt even et that point he is even near to Big E in raw psykick power)? Or even greater, some crazy shit like 10?

>> No.51899035

I'm trying to build a Slaanesh daemon army but I have no Fiends, how many should I buy? How many do I need?

>> No.51899036

>>51899020
Forgot pic related, fuck.

>> No.51899043

>>51895199
You need veterans. Your army will have no midfield presence without them. Unless you plan on sending your company command squad in the chimera to take points. :P.

Midfield presence is important. It lets you get flanking shots on vehicles, delay that charging imperial knight for a turn or two (once he reaches your lines he's going to dropkick your artillery off the board, and even if you kill him its an apocalyptic blast in the middle of a guard blob. Ouch). And threaten enemy artillery bombarding your lines.

Save the Emp's Fist for 2250 points.

>> No.51899052

>>51899020
Whatever he is, he's weaker than Horus.

>> No.51899057

>>51899020
Well he was powerful enough that the Chaos gods were scared of him, and when he enters the Imperial Webway in Master of Mankind, the hordes of daemons that were previously overwhelming the combined Sisters/Custodes/Knights force holding it basically just implode and/or run away screaming from just his presence.

So yeah, I'd say something like 10 from a fluff perspective but then, crunch and fluff don't align or muhreens would all be T5 with three wounds and boltguns would be S5 AP3.

>> No.51899085

>>51899036
He'd be something crazy like ML10. Motherfucker was mistaken for a god for a reason. If you can erase a Demon Primarch from existence with your mind AFTER getting fatally wounded, then you damn well better eclipse every other psyker in the galaxy.

>> No.51899092

>>51898377
That's literally the worst tyranid list I've ever seen posted.

>> No.51899093

>>51899052
would not say that. He only held back against him because Horus was his favourite once and he hoped to redeem him

>> No.51899106

>>51898959

Yup!

>> No.51899128

>>51898898
Unfortunately, the best Dark Eldar units are their transports. Venoms in particular.

>> No.51899136

>>51899020
i really don't wanna see Emps on the battlefield. bad enough we had nagash and he was OP as fuck in whfb (idk about AoS). though, it might be hilarious if he gets a debuff being around orks.

>> No.51899140

>>51899093
>because Horus was his favourite once and he hoped to redeem him
Not according to the latest ADB book! The primarchs were just lab experiments for him, he didn't even bother using their names in private, just calling them by their numbers.

>> No.51899154

>>51895365
Play Orks or DEldar, my dude.

>> No.51899168

>>51898571
>>51898649
>game was really even
>the other guys shit needs needed
?

>> No.51899208

>>51897987
Nothing but speculation.

The Ynnari seem to think that the Emperor is beyond saving and that Jellyman is the one who now needs to lead the Imperium according to GS II

>> No.51899233

>>51898898
Play DEldar, friend. They're fun even if their infantry isn't very good.

>> No.51899249

>>51899208
>the Emperor is beyond saving and that Jellyman is the one who now needs to lead the Imperium
No sir, I don't like this.

And anyway, if the emperor is a perpetual, why is he such a lost cause? Did he use all his juice killing Horus?

>> No.51899256

>>51899140

>just lab experiments for him
>calling them by their numbers

ADB shouldn't ever be allowed to write about Big E or any Loyalist. That's so fucking retarded

>> No.51899267

>>51899020
Well he's been overwhelmed by Orks, encountered technological shields and such he couldn't simply destroy at will, was badly injured by Drach'yen, incapable of stopping the Daemon Armies overwhelming Calastar so he has very clear mortal Limits.

He'd be strong, obviously, but considering its the Emperor numerous people will probably be disappointed if his Miniature doesn't come with a rule which states something akin to 'If you field him you win', which is, seemingly, an interpretation of him which is very popular.

>> No.51899286

>>51899249
Look, I'm not a fan of Jellyman wanking either, but he's literally the only one still around. Everyone else is either dead, "dead," or lost in the Warp.

Again, nothing but speculation, but if he were able to just die and get back up, I'd have thought it'd happen by now. He probably is no longer a perpetual.

>> No.51899289

>>51899256
>>51899140
I might be late to the part, but did ADB's daddy not love him?

>> No.51899306

>>51899289
*party

>> No.51899313

>>51899267
Yeah, I disagree with giving the Emperor rules, because either he's going to be OP as fuck and be unfun, or he'll be balanced and there will be massive bitching about him being reasonable.

Ether way I'm going to work out how many Militia Levies (2ccw Conscripts with Zealot and Rending, in hordes of 50 for 100pts) it takes to kill him and do that, just for fun points.

>> No.51899336

>>51899140
Even now the emp must still be wondering why his sons betrayed him.

>> No.51899350

>>51899128
Venoms are a bit more managable in size and look like they'd survive transport a bit better. Maybe if I just paint them to have a 'battle damaged' look from the start, I can gloss over any snapped spikey bits later on.

>>51899233
Yeah I want fun. More converting interests too. Who needs to win when you can just go really and then explode.

Going to go to meet Slaanesh at 200mph, backwards and on fire.

>> No.51899360

>>51899140
>ADB
>Writing loyalists
>Canon

I like his writing but he's waaay too biased for his loyalist writing to be taken at face value.

>> No.51899372

>>51898377
I remember you. It's fine if you say it has been working. Get lictors though, the mawloc not going anywhere gets old

>> No.51899389

>>51898464
You can want it to mishap then end up in reserves again, its whole deal is TFTD

>> No.51899391

>>51899350

>Going to go to meet Slaanesh at 200mph, backwards and on fire.

Good lad

And you can always run them as Ynnari with Harlequins if you're so inclined.

>> No.51899394

>>51899267
Frankly I always prefered the Emprah to be more mortal and failable.

Make him more interesting as a character than XBAWKSHEUG GOLDEN GOD OF PERFECTION. I like the 'immortal man just doing his best to avoid the horrific extinction of his species his vision of the future showed him'.

You know, the kind of Emperor he was originally, when GW ripped him wholesale from the Dune franchise.

>> No.51899418

>>51899391
I did look at that, the Strength From Death rule seems to lend itself quite well to lots of small, fragile units, so spamming 5-man units in venoms might be more viable with that to back it up.

>> No.51899420

>Abaddon batters his way to the Golden Throne
>casts Constantin Valor's corpse at the base of the throne
>ascends the steps up to the rotting corpse of the Emperor
>readies Drach'nyen to finish the job
>pulls a switcheroo and slays the Emperor with the Talon at the last moment, allowing the Emperor to be reborn in the Warp to prevent the Eye of Terror from consuming the galaxy
>40K 8th edition begins the story of Abaddon's Dark Imperium trying to conquer Guilliman's 500 worlds
Is this the best possible outcome of the 40K End Times?

>> No.51899441

>>51899140
I think that should be viewed as an interesting point of view and way of undertanding the Emperor but that's all.

(Also know as "NOT FUCKING CANON")

I honestly find hard a way to descirbe Big E's thoughs
and emotions with actual precision due to how "inhumane" he was. I mean, I would find hard to emphatize with someone who's around 50k years old an has inmense power.

ADB has just shonw his way of seeing it and that's fine.
Of couse people will take it as canon, and that's a problem, but welp.

>> No.51899442

>>51899418
Feed Wyches into the meat grinder to fuel Soulburst

Either they take them out or you can finally get them into melee to tear shit up

>> No.51899455

>>51899441
But it is canon. Incredibly stupid and retconny, but canon.

>> No.51899464

>>51899455
Well fuck.

>> No.51899472

>>51899442
>Either they take them out or you can finally get them into melee to flail at the enemy ineffectually
Fixed that for you.

>> No.51899474

>>51899420
Yeah, as long as Abaddon using the Talon is him fucking Drach'nyen over at the last minute rather than a conscious decision to allow the Emperor to turn Star Child.

Don't want any redemption in MY forty kay thankyou.

>> No.51899486

>>51899420
>allowing the Emperor to be reborn in the Warp to prevent the Eye of Terror from consuming the galaxy

Emperor + Ynnead team up to kill Slaanesh seems likely.

>> No.51899495

>>51899472
I'm trying to be optimistic

>> No.51899497

>>51899455
Luckily, it'll be retconned again by the next book.

>> No.51899498

>>51899474
It's not redemption, it's Abaddon preventing Chaos from fully consuming the galaxy and ruining his dream of mortal dominion. He isn't doing it for the Emperor's sake, he's preemptively fucking over the Chaos gods so that they can't fuck him over.

>> No.51899511

>>51899497
I doubt it.

>> No.51899527

>>51899486
Slaanesh is getting a new character in AoS (just a repainted older Sorcerer, but still Slaanesh). Slaanesh ain't going anywhere.

>> No.51899567

>>51899168
Well it would be fun to be able to actually kill shit.

>> No.51899632

>>51899567
Being tough is the faction 's gimmick. It clearly wasn't that big of an issue if you still had a close game and multiple characters took wounds.

>> No.51899667

Assuming to only play with friends, what fan dex would you give a Crack at? Would you make your own?

>> No.51899676

>>51899289
He's pretty much said so
The novella Aurelian is almost autobiography- basically his dad wasn't happy with him becoming a writer

>> No.51899684

any white dwarf leaks?

>> No.51899688

>>51899632
I mean yes, but usually I could think of a way to change my army to possibly deal with this stuff better, but the Sisters just don't have access to S10. Should I just count on him rolling less of his 4+ cover saves and 5+ FnPs?
>>51899667
I personally wouldn't. By now GW has an official codex for pretty much every major military faction in the universe.

>> No.51899703

>>51899688
What about... new factions. I got the question when I saw the fan dex for the Covenant and saw it was surprisingly fleshed out

>> No.51899719

>>51898567
Just dont take gladius strike force.

>> No.51899744

>>51899667
Doing a whole 'dex? I'd do a Tzeentch Chaos Marines faction book. Instead of the current mark system, you'd have access to a handful of unit-options like Brotherhood of Psykers, mutations, etc.

>> No.51899774

>>51899688
>Sisters are like a third of a real army
>therefore this other faction needs nerfed despite me having an, in my own words, even game against them

>> No.51899832

>>51899774
I said, "I wish there was a way for Sisters to deal with T5+ FnP"

>> No.51899845

>>51895066
Does ANYBODY have Planetary Empires?

>> No.51899863

>>51899676
So, ADB became a demon-worshiper because his dad treated him badly and sent his brother to bully him?

>> No.51899865

>>51899845
Yea. There are no rules in it.

>> No.51899906

>space marine command squad
>35 dollars
>blood angels command squad
>comes with command squad, blood angels upgrades, and what is essentially an entire space marine commander set which comes with multiple combi weapons melee weapons and is made of compatible componants
>45 dollars
>company command
>comes with a regular space marine command squad and a monopose ultramarines commander
>50 dollars

>> No.51899935

>>51899832
There is. Hit it with Meltas or PE.
>inb4 why bother shooting at a target if I won't wipe it out in one turn with no saves allowed

>> No.51899945

>>51899865
how the fuck you play
HOW PLAY HEX WARHAMMER

>> No.51899961

>>51899350

>> No.51899963

>>51899945
The entire book basically says "You can play fun campaigns with these! We aren't going to give any examples of how to use them tho."

That release was more of a tool than an expansion

>> No.51899982

>>51899935
Except meltas don't negate T5+ FnP. I wish I had penitent engines actually.

>> No.51900036

>>51899372
What's so good about lictors? I really like them but I dont have any more elite slots.

I dont have any of the suppliments so I guess I would have to take a second CAD for extra elite slots? But then I would need a second HQ and they're all so pricey.

Is death leaper any good? I could use him to guide in the mawloc and his snap-shot special rule is cool.

>> No.51900104

>>51895437
it seems like it would be beneficial to buy these even if you only play regular marines

>> No.51900156

>>51900104
>end up with a bunch of identical dark angels bits
my autism wouldn't be able to handle it

>> No.51900300

>>51899982
They still wound on a 2+ and ignore his armor. Why should it be easy for you to entirely negate the special advantages of elite infantry?

>> No.51900359

>>51900300
>elite infantry
You mean every non-cultist in the legion?

>> No.51900412

>>51900359
They also have lower initiative. Maybe just run at them with a pentinent engine and have it powerfist them in melee if you're so worried?

>> No.51900441

>>51899961
>Expecting GW to actually generate it's own ideas

>> No.51900467

>>51900441
Yeah, those scumbags shamelessly ripped off the Zerg too.

>> No.51900494

>>51900467

>> No.51900496

>>51900477
>>51900477
>>51900477

>> No.51900561

>>51900300
Okay that's true, but he still gets a 4+ cover save (on average) and a 5+ FnP on top of that. I dunno, it feels like I should find a way to counter him having those advantages. Death Guard get +1 to their cover saves, T5, and they reduce my model's WS, I and T if they have enough plague marines too, on top of all of them having FnP, and I'm not sure what I should have done differently to win the match.

>> No.51900613

>>51899360
I find this funny cause who gets to decide who can or cannot be trusted?

Doesn't this just become akin to saying if the author doesn't write what I want he's bad? I mean I know ADB's a big focus of it, but isn't he also one of the few people giving Chaos big unambiguous wins in the Heresy?

>> No.51900651

>>51899394
Agreed but, at this stage, too large a segment of the fanbase would probably be furious at the implication that the Emperor can ever be truly wrong on a matter.

The desire for all characters to be fallible, something I personally agree with, does seem at odds with a common perception of the Emperor as being textbook-infallible.

>> No.51900902

>>51896918
I dunno. The 40k rulebook says it only covers "some of the most common" and "example of some" in its prelude, while in addition to errata fully explaining what plasma weapons means (in all the specific cases asked), the latest rules referencing them say

>as defined in Warhammer 40,000: The Rules, including combi-plasma weapons and other plasma weapons such as the plasma rifles of the Tau Empire

Notice they use "including," not "in addition to" or "and," which means the definition of plasma as defined includes those things.

But realistically, what kind of dweeb would ever refuse including "other plasma weapons" with plasma weapons? Like, I can understand the RAW argument, but I can't understand how someone would bother standing by it for a game. It would be like refusing to allow Yarrick as a warlord at any time in the last 3 years. It's like, yeah, they refused to update the FAQ for him, but he has a freaking warlord trait in his profile.

>> No.51900963

>>51899140
No. Fuck off chaos fanboy. Stop spouting shit. The writer of "Master of Mankind" himself has stated that do not take anything that happens in the book at face value.

The only time the Emperor refers to the primarchs via numbers is when he is talking to the Custodes, particularly Ra. Now, it is an established fact that people perceive the Emperor as appealing to their own standards. Arkhan Land sees the Emperor as completely machine like, and believes the Emperor has tons of hidden adjustments like himself. The Silent Sisters, due to being nulls, just see a regular man in pain. Regular humans (for example in a Thousand Sons) see the emperor as Primarch-y with regal features. Similar to how he is portrayed in the famous duel picture. The Custodes feel like they are his firstborn. and are obviousle a bit threatened and jealous of the Primarchs. The Primarchs are even more "unique creations" than them, stronger, faster and better. Thus it is entirely reasonable that the the custodes perceive the emperor dismissing the Primarchs as just tools, or the Emperor refers to them as tools to satisfy the Custodes.

And at the end of the book, the Emperor does call Horus by his name and shows emotion towards him. Also, while I'm at it, I'm gonna disprove some more chaos fanboy wankery:

>the emperor lost to drach'nyen
No. He let drach'nyen impale him to lower his guard. Then teleported away, and sealed drach'nyen into Ra. Why did he do this? Because Daemons can't be killed, they are just banished. Drach'nyen rekt everything in his path from Custodes to Marines, so it would make sense that instead of just banishing him the Emperor decided to seal him into an immortal super-human, tell that superhuman to fuck off into the largest labyrinth in the universe taking drach'nyen with him.

In fact, the Master of Mankind gave the Emperor a massive power boost. Why? He is able to resurrect dead human souls and Ferrus fucking Manus to fight for him.

>> No.51901282

>>51900561
They only get the +1 to cover when you are more than 18" away so normally out of melta range.

>> No.51901422

>>51898557
It's bad because the core requirements are ridiculous. 5 lemans and an engiseer or 170 men and 3 sentinels as the minimum.

The battlegroup is best taken for bonus hqs for your CAD.

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