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[ERROR] No.51780135 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Pathfinder General /pfg/

Bloodforge: Infusions update!
How do you feel about the new, really strong catfolk subraces?
How do you feel about ANYONE becoming a catgirl/catboy with Adopted + Bakeneko, even a kitsune or a blinkling?
How do you feel about the other new races/subraces, like tanuki and elf-drow?

Unified /pfg/ link repository: http://pastebin.com/hAfKSnWW

Avowed Playtest 1: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5HkyGRtGZy3SWVhdWFBWERWWjg
Avowed Playtest 2: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rV7kaF9JL2gw9xQalkEnlEDL9WXtbsaCqNABm_pLIgc/edit?usp=sharing

Spheres of Might previews:
Part 1: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aLaYQEFAWU4zQBx58boJPPaySLgJc0Emmw9eKyIJeGI/
Part 2: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pyLq03W2ju58PcKOUq5YXoFowf_weBNzuWtjCMdINXk/edit
Part 3: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-LAt9Ti5pcnvHY4KnFRuItCjqtGM-YJC5r_0zXiKKUk/edit

Bloodforge Infusions updated playtest: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GvwMclLSw15slYI7D5xLdjMzr-Nau92hNha9Sx0LOk4/edit#

Old Thread: >>51774552

>> No.51780187

Forget that shit, here comes the Strange Aeons dump! Starting with the player's guide from last thread.


>> No.51780205

You are trying really fucking hard to start shit ain'tcha?

>> No.51780243

I am posting this again near the beginning of the thread for more coverage. I talked before about the conceptual design of a new class, the Bound. After doing so I looked into the Avowed as a lot of people say it had similar flavor. I have seen that this is true, that they seem to be sort of two branches of the same original concept. In Forrest's idea it is forging a connection between the PC and an external force, in mine it is the PC having an external force trapped inside them.

After thinking on it I have refined portions of the design, and would like to talk about them at least a bit. First I will talk about the three core concepts of the class:
>Bound entity
The bound entity is what you have had put inside you. This was a main topic of discussion last time to refine the possible list, and I got a number of fantastic suggestion that got the sparks going. Bound entity effect what sort of powers one can receive, both Stable and Unstable releases.
>Binding Location
The binding location is where the entity was put inside of you. This modifies what sort of powers one can receive. Binding location, unlike entity, only effects one's Stable releases. I have played with the idea that certain entities only have certain compatible bound locations.
The origin, unlike the other two, does not effect what powers you get. Instead it gives you minor Ex utility abilities and class skills, basically to let you have some abilities pertaining to how you received your entity.

>> No.51780245

Tell me about that character you're making.

>> No.51780249

Yeah, it occurred to me I should wait on the dump in case this gets deleted.

>> No.51780275

FotJR update:

We found our first magic item!
We then found out everyone in the party with detect magic forgot to train in spellcraft, and everyone with good spellcraft has no detect magic.

Mistakes have been made.

>> No.51780277

As one can see this class is highly supernatural, but not a spell caster. Instead many of its abilities will mimic spells. At the moment it is working on the assumption of being 3/4 BaB with 2 good saves. One's 2 good saves will be decided by their bound entity. At the moment I am also working under the assumption of a d10 hit dice, making this class rather odd with a 3/4 BaB and d10 hit dice pairing.

Now let's talk about some things I mentioned in these three concepts:
>Stable Release
Stable releases follow the same vein as rogue talents, rage powers, and alchemist discoveries. The class has a long list of them for the character to choose from every other level. However which ones you qualify for is determined by your bound entity and binding location. Let us say for instance your binding location is your eye, and your bound entity is a fiend. Eye qualifies you for stable releases such as Dark Vision, Aura Sight, True Seeings, etc. Fiend qualifies you for such abilities as fire resistance, tongues, bonuses to diplomacy, etc. Most stable releases have multiple prerequisites that can qualify you for it. An example would be the aforementioned Tongues. One can qualify for Tongues with both a Fiend entity or the Stomach binding location. This means if you chose both then there would be overlap between the two, and indeed you will likely have some overlap somewhere between your qualifications. I have worked out conceptually that if you double qualify it will likely lower the level requirement of the stable release and increase the DC of ones that have DCs, giving incentive to some overlap. Such abilities would be in theme for such a bound.

>> No.51780312

>Unstable release
Unstable releases is something I am currently struggling with design-wise. I am torn between two ideas. Either something akin to how Sorcerer bloodlines work, meaning that at preprescribed levels you receive a feature from your bound entity. Currently this is the less likely of the two. The other idea is more like that of an Oracle Mystery. You have a short list to choose from at prescribed levels. This much choice, along with stable releases makes the class highly modular. Unstable releases would be powerful, but invoke another portion of the class. Right now I am working on a system similar to ego. Using unstable releases will force the character to try and restrain their entity. The idea is if one is only using one unstable release the worst that can happen is they compelled to a task, similar to that of an ego check. However using multiple simultaneous both ups the DC and the stakes, to the point a character can, if they are reckless and use all of them simultaneously they may release the entity entirely.

Now for the current working lists of each:
>Bound entity
Parasite, Spirit, Plague, Fiend, Spell, Twin, Breach, Curse
>Bound Location
Eye, Heart, Arm, Legs, Stomach, Mind
At birth, punishment, inherited, accident, chosen, tricked

I may combine Curse and Spell into one, but at the moment they are different. For the spell I conceptually draw inspiriation from Rincewind in Discworld. For curse I am more thinking of something the classic Kodoku curse infesting someone. As well I have thought of possibly separating out different fiends into Daemon, Demon, and Devil may become important as they are so different thematically.

Another concept I have played with is each bound location having a distinct form of offense that it gets and advances throughout its levels, independent of releases.

>> No.51780325

What's a good strategy to promote harmony amongst crazy people that really shouldn't get along? I need to make sure the party sticks together forever.

>> No.51780329

Common enemy, it's the only way.

>> No.51780332


Are you another player, or the DM?

>> No.51780339

She's a sexy Tiefling pole dancer that venerates Kurgess!

>> No.51780357

Another player, the ever-Helpful cleric

>> No.51780362

So is this Granblue game you guys keep touting any good? I'm normally not a fan of Mobile games, especially ones that require you to be online (one of the reasons why I stopped playing Final Fantasy Record Keeper). What does Granblue have to offer me as a mobile game aside from sexy shortstacks?

>> No.51780371

I have in the past had a party that straddled every portion of the alignment chart that worked together surprisingly well. We indeed had the following alignments in the party: LG, LE, CE, LN, NG, CG. However in the end things ended rather well. I agree with >>51780325 that a common enemy helps.

Some of the characters have becoming surprisingly good friends, including the CE hobgoblin fighter and the LN kobold bard. Really in the end we somehow all ended up agreeing that the LN kobold not only held the party together, but was the only one we all agreed could be the party's leader if push came to shove, much to the surprise of the player.

>> No.51780382


That sexy Tiefling pole dancer better get posted for Wrath of the Raunchy or Taldor Ascendant! She could really come into her own in a level 8 gestalt campaign!


I'm like 85% sure you want me to explain, in some great detail, how the best way you can instill party unity is letting everyone have a go at one of your holes.

>> No.51780409

Frag it, the dump continues! Book 1, In Search of Sanity, something that could easily be a standalone module and what I call most threads.


>> No.51780424


Depends on the type of Cleric you are, of course.

Clerics to Erastil would try to put a good healthy sense of community in the group, while Abadar would be all about dat profit if they worked together.

>> No.51780472

>One's 2 good saves will be decided by their bound entity.
That seems needlessly complicated.

>> No.51780527

Common enemy is an evil cult and possibly their dark Master.

No, that would be impure. Only one may have a go at any holes.

>> No.51780547

I'm working on the apps. Out of town this weekend, but I'm hoping to get something posted next week.

>> No.51780559

>Only one may have a go at any holes.

One... At a time?

>> No.51780566

Cleric of Iomedae

>> No.51780585

One for life, friend

>> No.51780599

You may be right. It would make things too overbearing. I realized when I listed them out most of the list was Fort/Will anyway.

>> No.51780607


She'd try to get the lads united by their sense of camaraderie and brotherhood, possibly by doing everything together and generally feeling comfortable in the other's presence no matter the situation.


That's cute.

>> No.51780608

Are you immature morons seriously posting porn again? Fucking why?

>> No.51780624

Maybe give some option of getting fast reflex as well, for certain entities? Not like three good saves is unheard of.

>> No.51780627

Common goal, common enemy, no method of escape, general camaraderie forged through dangerous situations, flexibility in alignment expression.

Post more butts.

>> No.51780630


Because some chucklefucks think that's a "better" discussion topic than the stuff we were discussing last thread.

Which was, all things considered, very productive.

>> No.51780639

I have high hopes for that game, a good metroidvania with alchemical roots in its story.

On that note, quit it with the barely sfw stuff, please.

Fire forged friendships. Everyone in the group knowing that although they might strike at each other from time to time, it will never be a true strike, and when an outside force dares to raise its head they will all turn to present a unified front.

>> No.51780645

Rate my fighter pi-ef-jee
>Dwarf Fighter
>STR 17 DEX 14 CON 16 INT 12 WIS 14 CHA 6
>Uses dwarven longhammer and dwarven boulder helmet
>Traits: Glory of the Old, Defender of the Society
>Feats: 1 - Steel Soul, Power Attack (bonus), Combat Stamina (bonus)
>2 - Combat Reflexes
>3 - Barbarian VMC: Rage
>4 - Raging Vitality
>5 - Advanced Weapon Training: Warrior Spirit
>6 - Barroom Brawler
>7 - Barbarian VMC: Uncanny Dodge, Advanced Armor Training: Armored Juggernaut (bonus)
>8 - Lunge
>9 - Weapon Mastery: Difficult Swings, Advanced Weapon Training: Abundant Tactics: Barroom Brawler (bonus)
>10 - Advanced Weapon Training: Armed Bravery
>11 - Barbarian VMC: Rage Power: Superstitious, Advanced Armor Training: Armor Specialization (bonus)
>12 - Raging Brutality

>> No.51780654

Howdy samefag.

There's discussion alongside the butts, which you would have noticed if you weren't just looking to be offended/get some (You)s.

>> No.51780699

Does anyone actually care that I'm posting these? I'm already in too deep, so I guess I'll keep going.

Book 2, The Thrushmoor Terror, the only book that actually seems to have anything to do with Thrushmoor, seeing as it's a major town listed in the player's guide that it wants the players to be invested in and all, but, eh.


>> No.51780706

Good idea. I'll try more teamwork-building, maybe more meals and bathing together, maybe some exercise too.

Flexibility of alignment expression is easy to say, but how do you cope with Chaotic dummies that are teamwork-averse?

>> No.51780712

I'm downloading them at least, for archiving purposes.

>> No.51780713

I care, but I'm going to playing in it soon so I'm trying not to spoil myself.

>> No.51780715

So, teamwork feats.

>> No.51780722

>Chaotic dummies that are teamwork-averse
Prove to them that NOBODY else is going to have their backs, and that they need to reciprocate or end up worse than the bandit they raped with a spear the other week.

>> No.51780732

First, why are you setting half your feats on fire for VMC Barbarian if you're a single classed Fighter? You can go Viking Archetype.

Second, most of your feats are going into Rage stuff, so why aren't you a Barbarian in the first place? Just fishing for Warrior Spirit? AAT/AWT is nice and all, but if that's where you want to go, why put so much into the Rage side? Especially trying to do the Tome Fighter/Iron Caster I have All The Feats gimmick with Combat Stamina + Barroom Brawler/Abundant Tactics.

You're a Dorf, but you don't take any of the Cleave+ feats which is the reason to be a Dorf Fighter instead of a Dorf anything else with Steel Soul + Glory of Old.

Honestly, I'm not sure what you're trying to *do* here, character wise. Are you looking for extra attacks? Big PA damage? A large zone of control? Using Rage and cynical Weapon Training bonuses to make TWF a thing? It looks like you're just picking things randoms on the Internet say are good without any sort of build cohesion.

>> No.51780734

Fair enough, Anon. I shall cease! I appreciate all of the advice. Hopefully I can bring all these rogue and witch types in line with teamwork and camaraderie.

>> No.51780737



>> No.51780761

>viking archetype
it's shit
>half your feats
fighters get 21, 5 is not half of them

>> No.51780775

Sounds serviceable. What's his or her story?

Also, party composition?

>> No.51780805

Well I got a Curse of the Crimson Throne campaign starting soon, trying to decide between an intimidation rogue, a crossbow warpriest using my GM's crossbow rules, or a TWF Urban Ranger.

>> No.51780811

I want a fighter, and not a barbarian or a viking, so i can have weapon training AND rage for high hit and damage and adv. weapon and armor training.
My goal is to able to be able to grab all the combat feats I want while putting my main feats into: a) being resistant to magic and generally really tough, and b) making a huge fuck-zone with the hammer that nothing will want to go through while having the helmet for when things get close.
And I'm going with dorf for the magic resistances and the weapon proficiencies. I was thinking about the cleave feats, but it wouldn't leave me enough room to do the other stuff I wanted.

>> No.51780817

TWF Intimidation Slayer, dualwielding crossbows.

>> No.51780822

Escape Route and Lookout

>> No.51780890

VMC Barbarian is much better than the Viking archetype for fighters for a similar result.

>> No.51780913

Ally Shield and Charnel Soldiers a best.

>> No.51780942

Alright /pfg/, lets talk about Theurges.
What are your two favorite caster types/spell lists to combine? Have you ever built or played a Theurge? Is the PrC worth it, or are there better options instead?
Am I bad for wanting to play as a Witch/Druid (Nature Priest)/Mystic Theurge?

>> No.51781000

You're my favorite deputy.

Allright, on to book three, Dreams of the Yellow King, aka, "Trippin' Balls on a River Cruise"


>> No.51781040

What's the largest explosive spell or ability a wizard can cast?

>> No.51781062

Pushing right along, book four is The Whisper out of Time, a name I actually had to look up because this book is so jarring and out of place, I couldn't be arsed to remember it. I'd just been calling it "Suddenly, Gnolls!", as that's pretty much all it is. Maybe the deviants here will get something out of it.


>> No.51781107

Friends, I'm tired.

Tired of always needing to get spiffy spells on my weapons. Tired of always needing a shoulder garment that raises my nebulous "don't die" meter. Tired of wearing belts.

What are some items I could get with a 25k budget that are both useful for a party while being somewhat flavorful?

>> No.51781114

When you explode inside someone.

>> No.51781120

Finally, book 5, What Grows Within, where we get to learn about Xhamen-Dor, a manasaputra actually gets used in a book, and we meet the most adorable trash dog NPC merchant.


Note: Book 6 is legit not out yet. Leak/ShareAnon will probably throw up some screenshots first when it does, but I will try to grab it when it goes public, along with a real pdf of Psychic Anthology and whatever else at the end of the month.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled shit posting!

>> No.51781267

thanks lad, downloaded

>> No.51781320

Are these all cleaned and ready for the trove?

>> No.51781329

Wait a minute...


>this thread starts with a bakeneko

>this is the thread where Bloodforge: Infusions comes out to introduce bakeneko

Was it fate?

>> No.51781376

It was a conspiracy.

>> No.51781380


bakaneko was an inside job!!!

>> No.51781402


>Dumb cat

I get it!

>> No.51781454

>tfw almost none of the Druid archetyes stack since they almost all replace/alter either Nature's Bond or Resit Nature's Lure
>tfw nothing stacks with Nature Priest
>tfw the new alternative nature's bond option won't work either with most archetypes

>> No.51781542

>Fluffy Tails 2 is dead

I called it.

>> No.51781543

easier to grab here than our own fucking website

>> No.51781550


We all did, anon.

We all did.

>> No.51781565

Would you play her as a bard?

>> No.51781595


Catfolk make fantastic bards, anon.

+2 Dex +2 Cha?

>> No.51781597

Have kitsune been BTFO forevermore?

>> No.51781617

What's next?

>> No.51781636

No, they're too retarded to ever learn a lesson permanently.

>> No.51781661

What's the general advice for optimizing kingdom building?

>> No.51781669

>Bakeneko (Race, Catfolk): You gain the beastblood subtype. In addition, you gain the ability to shapeshift between two forms—your natural form becomes a single specific feline of any size between your natural size and Tiny; while in this form you gain the benefits of the beast shape I spell (except that you do not gain any of the ability score increases normally associated with the spell, and you may also choose to have their natural form be a Tiny feline), though they must take the same form each time. If you possesses any extraordinary claw or bite natural weapons, then you maintain up to 2 claw attacks and 1 bite attack while in this form, though they deal damage as appropriate for their new size. Antimagic fields and effects that return you to their natural form revert them to their cat form, and effects that pierce through magical disguises (such as true seeing) reveal your true form. In addition, as a standard action, you may assume the appearance of a specific single human form of the same sex. In this form, you lose all benefits of the beast shape I effect granted by your natural form. Because of telltale catlike features (such as a poorly concealed tail or sharp fangs), you only gain a +5 bonus on Disguise checks to appear fully human when in your human form. However, you gain a +20 bonus on Disguise checks to appear as a normal cat when in your natural form, and you do not take the normal penalty for disguising as a smaller creature when doing so. You can speak and cast spells in your cat form, and have access to any material and focus components that are melded to your form when you transform back into a cat (though expending them will cause them to be used when you transform into a human again). Transforming into a human otherwise functions as alter self, except your ability scores do not change.

A vital fact to note about Bakeneko is that it overrides your race's usual appearance.

A tengu Bakeneko is either a human or a cat.

How can this be used?

>> No.51781702

> More softcore porn


>> No.51781709

>butt is 2 different sizes at once

Poor girl. Is she a follower of Lamashtu? Is that how this happened?

>> No.51781721

Got them all from the cleaners three doors down, so I'd be really surprised if they weren't clean.

Happy to be of help. Which site, if it isn't too much trouble to ask?

>> No.51781744

>softcore porn
>complaining on fucking /tg/ of all places
Here newfag, a (You), specially tailored for you

>> No.51781745

>Do a dungeon with two L3s since I needed money and loot in a campaign
>Face an encounter vs 4 mooks
>Had to retreat because of extremely statistically improbable sets of rolls that led to my characters getting critted and almost dying to four mooks who are a lot inferior to my PCs

...This is just one of those days for me isnt it?

>> No.51781753


>> No.51781777

Gold is a very soft metal, so if you can heat it up enough, you should be able to tear it up with normal tools with crowbars and take it out piece by piece.

>> No.51781783


Wouldn't a faithful to Lamashtu have a well-proportioned, large and very shapely rump?

>> No.51781787

Good thing I never finished my sheet.

>> No.51781788

What's a class that you want to see, but that doesn't exist in PF?

>> No.51781797


Step #1: Keep your entire kingdom in a single hex. Yes, this means depriving yourself of XP rewards, but your kingdom will be more prosperous for it.

Step #2: Assign leadership positions, set edicts, and construct initial buildings and features in such a way that you succeed on Loyalty and Stability checks on a natural 2+.

Step #3: Build nothing but banks to raise Economy and base value, or possibly libraries, mills, and smithies if your Loyalty or Stability needs shoring up.

That is all there is to it. The most optimal possible kingdom is a city-state filled with almost nothing but banks, and perhaps some libraries, mills, and smithies.

Blame Paizo.

The kingdom-building rules have an absolutely pathetic band-aid against this sort of optimization:
>If you get overzealous in constructing a particular type of building in a settlement, the GM should feel free to add events to discourage this practice. For example, a settlement with too many Dumps is prone to otyugh and wererat attacks, and a settlement with too many Graveyards tends to have frequent undead attacks. This should not occur, however, if you build too many Houses, Parks, Tenements, or Waterways.
Which amounts to "We could not balance this, so it is up to the GM to balance it."

>> No.51781801

I highly get the impression they were playing the long con troll given how closely they mirrored the words of the GM of fluffy tails 1 when they deserted their game before that.

Also, was in the thread Fluffy 2 started in, fucking called it from day 0.

>> No.51781811


A class that eliminates other classes from existence

Pathfinder has at least 40 too many

>> No.51781818


Honestly I just want an official Paizo class that actually incorporates Scarlet Throne Style and Strength of Arms.

>> No.51781834

What the crap is a blinkling?

>> No.51781838

Wide hips, certainly. But don't forget she's also a goddess of abominations, aberrations, and mutations.

>> No.51781860


Also, this means that something like a balor or a pit fiend could take Additional Traits, choose Bakeneko as one of those traits, and then forevermore change their appearance to "cat" or "human with feline features."

>> No.51781865

A kingdom with too many banks is bound for a takeover by the Abadar mafia!

>> No.51781880

>Childbirth Goddess is evil

What did Paizo mean by this

>> No.51781891

I disagree.

>More t1/2 beatsticks.
>t4/5 casters

Either that, or many class archetypes that stack with *everything*, designed to move each class available into each tier it is not in.

>> No.51781892

>Wide hips, certainly.

Well of course, that goes without saying, but I'm just figuring (spoilering for obvious reasons) a goddess that wants her faithful to get mounted by monsters will have something the beast identifies as "prime breeding bitch" material, which in most species is a large, shapely rear. Having it all uneven sends the wrong message.

>> No.51781893

what are the most interesting /pfg/ homebrew races? I don't care about fetishes I am looking for things with cool stories or mechanics.

>> No.51781897

I don't know the rest of the party yet, except one who is definitely playing a wizard.
His story is that he's an old vet that's become disillusioned with the dwarf role in golarion society and wants, together with his clan, to bring the scattered dwarf clans together to form a new dwarf kingdom with the territory and money he'll gain from expanding the humble mercenary company that his grandfather runs eventually into a city-state

>> No.51781911

>INT-based divine caster

>> No.51781914

A 9-level alchemy class

>> No.51781915

What is even a T1/T2 beatstick

>> No.51781917


Lamashtu is the Goddess of Monster Rape and Impregnation, she's by no means the Goddess of Childbirth, which is more Pharasma or Feronia's thing.

Even then, Pharasma is better associated as the Goddess of the Dead, which means Golarion really does lack a "dedicated" non-evil fertility figure. Just like it lacks a dedicated "King of the Gods" figure, or a dedicated Sun God, or a dedicated many other things.

Honestly, it feels like Paizo tried so hard at "breaking the trend" they failed to realize why the trend existed in the first place.

>> No.51781925

She's the Mother of Monsters, anon. Note the MONSTERS part.

All those nasty things that burn villages and eat babies? Those are hers.

>> No.51781930


As well, ironically, all of these catfolk subraces still lack darkvision.

>> No.51781933

There's that inquisitor archetype.

Also that one Psychic discipline

>> No.51781937

So, a non-shitty Swashbuckler?

>> No.51781941


>> No.51781953

Probably. Dem blessings of the Mother.

>> No.51781964


Pretty much, yes! Throw in a scaling half-level bonus to AC while lightly armored and you've got something I want to play!

>> No.51781966

>"King of the Gods" figure
Aroden is not dead!

>> No.51781969

Pharasma is the Goddess of Birth. Lamashtu is a rapist.>>51781891

>> No.51781981

Are the spheres archetypes for paizo classes decent at all? I keep hearing people complaining about the sphere magus. Do any paizo classes get decent treatment under spheres?

>> No.51781984

She gives the women fat cocks so they can do the mounting themselves

>> No.51781986

>Pharasma is the Goddess of Birth

Pharasma's status as the Goddess of Birth was an afterthought thrown into her portfolio by Paizo after they, just like us, looked at their pantheon and realized the only fertility goddess was a monster rapist.

>> No.51781998


Delete this.

>> No.51782004

That picture of Aroden reminds me a lot of Sinbad from Magi, which, coincidentally, has recently become god
I wonder if there's some connection

>> No.51782009

It's not so much childbirth as it is fertility, and not the kind of fertility you'd want.

Right, but she's also a patron to mutants and monsters. I think a girl with a misshapen ass could find a home among the Lamashtu clergy if she's fertile.

>> No.51782011

Like Synthesist, druid and other summoners as the next best thing.

Lots of versatility, encounter ending/avoiding abilities, and the ability to fight well in combat.

>> No.51782022

I can't provide "cool," just silly.

Still, here's some mole men: http://pastebin.com/vP8n2YRQ
And ports of some Neopets: http://pastebin.com/7e8FzV1W

>> No.51782027

A class with mathematical magic.

>> No.51782038


>Due to their adequate nutrition and job duties, female knights typically end up with fantastic asses

All those doujins are beginning to make sense!

>> No.51782043

Aroden is alive! He just painted himself blue and hangs out with Pharasma!

>> No.51782053

>A class with mathematical magic
How would that work?

>> No.51782062

Lamashtu would make her fertile

>> No.51782068


>mfw Paizo are so wishy-washy they refused to even kill off Aroden

>> No.51782070

Sacred Geometry and Numeromancy.

>> No.51782074

Like this:

>> No.51782094

I want to see a campaign where a cavalier, Paladin, and a cleric of Iomedae argue over who has the more impressive ass!

>> No.51782107

Like this


>> No.51782130

>Warpriest of Lamashtu makes a dynamic entry and shows them all up

>> No.51782154

paizo website

>> No.51782180

Hi guys, I would like your assistance on a character build for an upcoming game. Mostly a city settings and not using any 3rd party material.

I would like to try out some of the stuff I normally avoid, in this case I am thinking a Ratfolk unRogue. I was also thinking of playing around with VMC and going for a Rogue VMC Magus.

From what I can see ratfolk is pretty perfect with +2 int, +2 dex and bonuses to stealth, perception, alchemy and UMD. So after playing around with a few ideas I figured I want this guy to roll d6's....lots of them.

Some key features as to what I think would make this good/fun:

So two-weapon fighting with short swords
Sneak attack
Major Magic (shocking grasp)
Intensified Spell-Like Ability
Prescient Attack (Su)

So it takes a while to get the abilities, but should actually be hitting pretty decently. What should I do to help me more in the early game? Any archetypes for rogue I should take? Was humming and hawing over Poisoner and utilizing the alchemy bonuses, but poisons can be very so-so and also Counterfeit Mage for some wand abilities for spellstrike, but wands kind of fall off just when i would be wanting them most (level 7 for spellstrike).

Any tips and advice would be awesome.

>> No.51782201

So... a wizard?

>> No.51782218

That sounds fun, but you had better not play a feat intensive fighting style.
I recommend going with frostbite instead of shocking grasp and debuffing with rime spell/enforcer with it as your opening move in a fight, mix with the scout archetype for extra sneak attack, the TWF away once you're in.

>> No.51782224


Would you really need a campaign dedicated to this? Why not just make the occasional character for a /pfg/ campaign that's got a noticeably impressive ass?

>> No.51782228

In a Paizo + Dreamscarred Press game that starts at a low level, is there any better Wisdom-based skill monkey than a lynx catfolk inquisitor (warpath follower)?

6 base skill points.
Conversion inquisition for Wisdom-based Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate, making the lynx's -2 Charisma irrelevant.
Wisdom to monster knowledge checks, Stern Gaze, and Track.

And most important of all:
>Foresight (Su): Lynx catfolk can occasionally look into the future. As an immediate action, a lynx catfolk may reroll any one d20 result they have just made. They must take the new result, even if it is worse, and must wait 1 minute before using this ability again. This racial trait replaces cat’s luck and the sprinter.

This can apply not only in combat, but outside of combat as well. If the lynx does not think a take 10 will be enough to succeed on a skill check, they can make the d20 roll normally and reroll anything 10 or below.

What does /pfg/ think of the lynx's foresight ability?

>> No.51782273


For that matter, would anyone else agree that while the lion, the lynx, and the tiger all receive outstanding racial abilities (powerful build, foresight, and Large size respectively), the cheetah, the jaguar, and the manul are screwed out of anything noteworthy?

>> No.51782281

Shocking Grasp won't be worth using without spell combat, definitely use your major magic for a touch spell that debuffs

>> No.51782293


...that's bad. Like, really bad. Did they just decide to give up like they did with Hell's Vengeance to push Ironfang? That's not how you do a business, Paizo!

>> No.51782294

Why not make every character with a notably impressive ass?

>> No.51782303

Is that not what /pfg/ does already?

>> No.51782314

>free rerolls on a one minute cooldown
Who the fuck thought that was a good idea?

>> No.51782333


Not really, /pfg/ seems really focused on going for large boobs or C-U-T-E!


Oversaturation, if everyone has a nice butt than it gets kind of boring you know? I mean, it doesn't get boring in the sense you don't like the butts, but everyone's butt is stellar so nobody really sticks out aside from their butts.

>> No.51782337

You can play around with some of the optional rules in Spheres of Power to add Weather's "2 mile radius" talent to your Destruction blast. But that requires extra GM approval even beyond using 3rd party, so probably not likely for many games.

I think your best bet is just finding a way to add Widen Spell to a Meteor Swarm without needing a 12th level spell slot. There are many ways to lower the cost of metamagic, so that shouldn't be too hard.

There's also the Words of Power system, which is Paizo official, though it still requires GM permission to use. I think the Burst word can be up to a 40 foot radius as a 5th level spell slot (off the top of my head, don't feel like looking it up), which can come online much earlier than the Meteor Swarm, even if it's not quite as large a possible area.

>> No.51782341

It should be 1 hour at least.

>> No.51782354

It should be 1 day, like every other sensible reroll power.

>> No.51782401

And it'd still be a straight upgrade to Cat's Luck

>> No.51782406


>> No.51782450

Manul are basically fuzzy goblins, honestly, when it comes to Stealth. So they've got that as their niche. Cheetahs and Jaguars are screwed though, yeah.

>> No.51782454

How do I get a shield bonus to AC on an unarmed character without looking stupid because I'm holding a heavy shield while punching? 1pp only.

>> No.51782462

shield spell`

>> No.51782472

Shield Gauntlet Style?

>> No.51782473

That's what Captain America does. Captain America doesn't look stupid.

>> No.51782479

He's a bakeneko shota trap sorcerer street urchin who dresses like a ladybug.

>> No.51782487

Actually, he kinda does.

t. Not Ironman

>> No.51782518


Why not a wolf-girl that dresses like a pumpkin?

>> No.51782543

Because... That's your character so our characters can make a promise to get married when we get older.

>> No.51782564

What is this burning feeling, /pfg/? Like acid coursing through my veins just upon reading this obvious satire?

>> No.51782608


I find it irritating that manuls are severely held back by gaining a Strength bonus (they want to be in melee), yet having only 20-foot speed. The latter also undermines their Stealth benefit.

I also find it annoying that a manul is practically required to invest in Wisdom in the Flesh (Stealth) to make good use of their racial abilities, and even then, they will be held back by armor check penalty if they are in medium armor or heavy armor like many a Strength-dependent class expects.

The manul's flavor does not even match its ability score modifiers.
>+2 Strength, +2 Wisdom, –2 Charisma: Manul catfolk are strong and fast, but they are not nearly as observant as normal catfolk, and they’re easily startled. This racial trait replaces the normal catfolk’s racial ability modifiers.
They are exactly as observant as regular catfolk, and having a bonus to Wisdom means they are more difficult to startle.

>> No.51782614


I've got this too, I've got this burning like my veins are filled with nothing but gasoline.

>> No.51782628

A very insecure magus who clings onto people like a koala at the slightest gesture of kindness.

Wears ragged navy blue cloth in layers upon layers upon layers. Bandana > shawl > poncho > outer skirt > longer skirt > little ankle and wrist skirts (cuffs and anklets).

>> No.51782638

it's the knowledge that you'll never have a cute shota inside you burning you up.

>> No.51782676 [DELETED] 


I find it irritating that manuls are severely held back by gaining a Strength bonus (they want to be in melee), yet having only 20-foot speed. The latter also undermines their Stealth benefit.

I also find it annoying that a manul is practically required to invest in Wisdom in the Flesh (Stealth) to make good use of their racial abilities, and even then, they will be held back by armor check penalty if they are in medium armor or heavy armor like many a Strength-dependent class expects.

The manul's flavor does not even match its statistics.
>+2 Strength, +2 Wisdom, –2 Charisma: Manul catfolk are strong and fast, but they are not nearly as observant as normal catfolk, and they’re easily startled. This racial trait replaces the normal catfolk’s racial ability modifiers.
They are exactly as observant as regular catfolk, and having a bonus to Wisdom means they are more difficult to startle. They are not "fast" either, since they have slow speed and have no Dexterity bonus, unlike conventional catfolk.

>> No.51782690

>+2 wisdom
>less observant
That's literally the opposite of how it works. All the 'observant' skills are Wis based. Manul should be /more/ observant than the average catfolk.

>> No.51782694

So say I cast Enlarge Person on someone and then they proceed to transform into something non-humanoid. Do they just shrink back to normal or does the size change still apply for the duration?

>> No.51782718


I find it irritating that manuls are severely held back by gaining a Strength bonus (they want to be in melee), yet having only 20-foot speed. The latter also undermines their Stealth benefit.

I also find it annoying that a manul is practically required to invest in Wisdom in the Flesh (Stealth) to make good use of their racial abilities, and even then, they will be held back by armor check penalty if they are in medium armor or heavy armor like many a Strength-dependent class expects.

The manul's flavor does not even match its statistics.
>+2 Strength, +2 Wisdom, –2 Charisma: Manul catfolk are strong and fast, but they are not nearly as observant as normal catfolk, and they’re easily startled. This racial trait replaces the normal catfolk’s racial ability modifiers.
Having a bonus to Wisdom means that they are are more observant than regular catfolk, and that they are more difficult to startle. They are not "fast" either, since they have slow speed and have no Dexterity bonus, unlike conventional catfolk.

>> No.51782734

But with a spark, would it be be the greatest fire they've ever seen?

Why would I want that?

>> No.51782755

Does anyone have the Scarred Lands pathfinder material? poked around the usual sources and just found a lot of dead links.

>> No.51782762

He sounds cute! Make him cute!

>> No.51782786

It beats WotC where they kill someone, and then bring them back and then kill them again and then bring them back again then kill them, then bring back yet again.

>> No.51782787

There is a king of the gods, he is called Asmodeus.

>> No.51782797


Delete this, my brother works in Elysium he will get you banned.

>> No.51782812


Another issue I see here is that Dreamscarred Press is trying to fix the underpowered catfolk race by giving them remarkably good subraces such as the lion, the lynx, and the tiger... but the cheetah, the jaguar, and the manul are still shabby, and absolutely nothing has been done for the "regular" catfolk for those who wish to play a Dexterity/Charisma-based housecat.

(Yes, the jaguar is also Dexterity/Charisma-based, but it is quite weak, and everyone who wants to play a Dexterity/Charisma-based housecat should not be told to play a jaguar instead.)

>> No.51782820

delet this

>> No.51782832

>tfw Asmodeus is the most qualified
>tfw during the conflict with The Rough Beast Asmodeus was one of the two gods to take the lead
>tfw Asmodeus lead one of the two sides in The War In Heaven, the winning side
>tfw Asmodeus is either the second or third most powerful god, depending on if you consider off hand forum posts canon
>tfw Asmodeus is unique as the only god with two distinct alignments that both fully function as his alignment as a deity
Who is more qualified than Asmodeus?

>> No.51782848

Hold on.

Would a martial proficient but not exotic proficient medium humanoid wield a large bastard sword at only a -2 penalty?

>> No.51782860

Fuck you my character is already cute, and wouldn't be as adorable or relatable if she were a boy (sorry that's just a fact), would be more like a Small sized creep.

>> No.51782889

No. It's a two-handed weapon if you don't have the feat, and a two-handed weapon of a size larger than you just can't be used. The rules don't leave a loophole in this manner.

>> No.51782894


>> No.51782896

Wait, is a Small magus even a good idea?

>> No.51782900

Torag followed Asmodeus during The War In Heaven.

Though I have to say the best outcome is Asmodeus, Abadar, and Torag leading together. However Asmodeus named Torag when he named all things as the first of the gods.

>> No.51782907

so PF is just entirely anime and furry and fetishes now?

>> No.51782920

Isn't that what the Iconic Barbarian does though? She uses a Large bastard sword.

>> No.51782946

I feel like it's actually been a lot better about not being all that lately.

>> No.51782947


Well, a magus' power comes primarily from dumping craploads of dice from their touch spell of choice, right? Being small shouldn't really impact that.

>> No.51782959

>Feats Cleave, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword)
>She values her over-sized sword (even though she can only truly wield it properly when her blood rage takes her)
Amiri has EWP and she still can't use her sword very well.

>> No.51782975

Please. The best outcome is the Goodclaw. Torag, Erastil, Shelyn, Sarenrae, and Desna. Lawfags go and stay go.

>> No.51782977

>implying it ever wasn't

Look upon Paizo and know it to be true.

>> No.51782999

>No Cayden

Oh hello Paizo.

>> No.51783003

My wizard just used Create Undead to make a Skeletal Champion of some kind of dragon skeleton.

The onyx was supplied by someone else in the form of a pile, so I can't tell how much in gold worth I actually used (it was a big pile)

Does you intrinsically know how much HD worth of undead are under your control at any given time, or am I going to have to think of some roundabout way of figuring it out?

>> No.51783007

If you consider gaining spheres as a fair trade for losing alchemy, the Spheres Investigator is practically a direct upgrade from the base for everything else it gets.

>> No.51783013

It's called being in love

>> No.51783014

The Great Old Ones.

>> No.51783019

>implying Paizuzu's choice wouldn't be Milani
Wasted trips.

>> No.51783023

Out of that list Sarenrae and Torag are the only two I respect.

>> No.51783024

Any god with a G in their alignment

>> No.51783031

I don't think love feels this angry, anon.

>> No.51783037

Torag, Abadar, and Asmodeus actually have a history together, more so than those.

Heck Asmodeus and Sarenrae have more of a history than those gods do.

>> No.51783041

It is, was, and forever will be as long as you comment on it instead of reporting it.

>> No.51783049

Anon, LN is a much better alignment than LG for a deific leader.

>> No.51783056

I want to hug these gods!

>> No.51783059

Posting again. I require opinions on race lore. I do not have many races in my setting, but I will go over a few here for thoughts:

The separate goblinoid creatures are not in fact different species, instead they form a greater single species. In this case goblins are infertile males, hobgoblins fertile males, and bugbears females. Their clans end up strictly matriarchal with a bugbear at its head. When giving birth to a litter generally one child will grow to a hobgoblin, if two do so both hobgoblins will likely be runts among their kind. Hobgoblins practice rampant homosexuality due to their pathological need to mate where as bugbears only become fertile at certain times of the year, this varies from bugbear to bugbear and depends on when they were born. Bugbears can actually choose when to give birth to a new female, and will often send one with several hobgoblins and goblins to be established as a sister clan. This creates vast networks of allied clans stemming from single Bugbears. Bugbears, opposed to goblins and hobgoblins are far longer lived, some reaching as old as two hundred. Goblins, the infertile males, are generally subservient to their larger fertile brothers, but only to a point. However both hobgoblins and goblins will religiously follow the orders of their Bugbear mother or current clan head, this is due to pheromones the bugbear produces. She will often cut portions of her hair off and give it to her servants, these hair soaked in pheromone oil she excretes, and will keep them subservient while away. Goblinoids away from a bugbear for a long periods of time, without such baubles, will grow to realize their subservience.

>> No.51783063

Anon, just because "Paizo hasn't written their interactions" doesn't mean "they have never interacted." All five of those deities are ancient. They were all around to fight Rovagug. You think they've never chatted?

>> No.51783073

Dwarven kind's "lust for gold" is quite literal. Dwarves have no sexes and are a single monolithic species. They are not born, and instead are built. An individual or a community will carve a new dwarf out of metal, stone, or gem and set them life using often poorly understood old rituals. One's material will often decide one's caste throughout life. Dwarven rich will carve their children of gold and gems, this creates a luxury for the rich of having a child as they can afford to pay for the materials of a child alone. Clans and communities otherwise will often come together to pool resources when creating a new dwarf. This is why clans exist, groups who come together to finance new dwarves as well as 'children of the community' where the new dwarf's 'parents' is every member of a town who pitched in. The poorest of dwarves can be made of materials like brick, slate, or even concrete. These urban poor dwarves are seen as disgusting creatures by their brethren often, and such dwarves are most common among populations living outside of dwarven territory. Rich dwarves seldom travel due to the inherent wealth of their bodies. Even if they carry no riches a golden dwarf represents half a ton of gold to the would be highway man. Using a dwarf's body after death is sacrilege, and dead dwarves are enshrined in their base parts. Old dwarven clans will have bars and vaults full of gems harvested from their ancestors. Dwarves however have no natural maximum lifespan and dwarven death only comes in the form of dwarves who died in violence, accidents, or of diseases that effect their kind.

>> No.51783079

What's your beef with Old Dadeye?

>> No.51783088

Nope, too Evil

>> No.51783091

What games have you got coming up /pfg/? Are you excited?

>> No.51783094

Yes, but let us take the fight against Rovagug as a case for how close Abadar, Torag, and Asmodeus are. During the conflict against The Rough Beast ATA together conceptualized, constructed and build the magic that made the great puzzle/box possible. It was their project. Asmodeus wrote the contract, Abadar created the lock, and Torag forged the cage.

>> No.51783110

>too evil
>doesn't contain any evil
>0 evil is too much

>> No.51783121

The absence of Good furthers Evil

>> No.51783146

I mean, there are multiple abadari orders specifically about routing out corruption both political and financial.

>> No.51783154

And anon, I'm saying, we rail against Paizo's ineptitude and laziness at every turn. Yes we know of that interaction between deities. There aren't many things to point to because Paizo hardly ever writes that stuff up. Your perspective is incomplete because you've shackled yourself to hack writers for a setting with a ton of wasted potential, instead of allowing your mind to roam free.

>> No.51783165 [SPOILER] 


Good? Evil? Law? Chaos? Water? Earth? Fire? Air? Faerie? Force? Energies? In the end, all will fade. None of these can be furthered, for in the end not one can escape the coming dark. In the beginning, there was nothing, and it shall end as it began. Even the Horsemen do not realize what exactly they seek, for if they did they would turn from it in horror.

>> No.51783171

Yes, however I can say likely Abadar/Torag/Asmodeus have more interactions as they have multiple sets of canon interactions between the three gods on friendly terms. When there are so few that Paizo thinks are relevant I think likely the ones that are mentioned represent a greater whole.

Basically you're saying "paizo says they are 0 but it's really 10 for 'the goodclaw', but for ATA while they say it is 5 it is really only 5". Likely since they are proportionally more mentions they have proportionally more actual interactions, if all interactions were going to be conveyed.

Also thematically ATA work together a lot better than 'the goodclaw'.

>> No.51783212


>> No.51783256

go to bed Groteus

>> No.51783258

>Basically you're saying "paizo says they are 0 but it's really 10 for 'the goodclaw', but for ATA while they say it is 5 it is really only 5".

>Also thematically ATA work together a lot better than 'the goodclaw'.
Entirely subjective. I say that a builder, a woodsman, a healer, an artist, and a dreamer work together better.

>> No.51783265

>Implying Groetus gives enough of a fuck to even doomsay.


>> No.51783268

Guess the god.

>> No.51783287

Our Lord in Iron.

>> No.51783298

>Entirely subjective. I say that a builder, a woodsman, a healer, an artist, and a dreamer work together better.
As leaders of the gods? No, not really. Those don't fit leadership roles thematically at all. How does a woodsman fit in as "leader of the gods"?

>> No.51783301

Gorum. Do a harder one.

>> No.51783324

If a mortal woodsman can be a leader of men then the god of woodsmen can be a leader of gods.

>> No.51783336

If you honestly thing Torag, Erastil, Shelyn, Sarenrae, and Desna make a better set of deific leaders than Torag, Abadar, and Asmodeus then I have to say you simply have incorrect opinions. You're entitled to them, but they're still shit.

>> No.51783373

If you honestly think Torag, Abadar, and Asmodeus make a better set of deific leaders than Torag, Erastil, Shelyn, Sarenrae, and Desna then I have to say you simply have incorrect opinions. You're entitled to them, but they're still shit.

>> No.51783380

I was going to play a Theurge but my dm decided to let me do a Wizard/Cleric Gestalt instead...lol

>> No.51783398 [DELETED] 

I have seen no case made for your set. My case consists of:
>the three of them have been in leadership roles among the gods before, particularly Asmodeus
>we have evidence of the three working closely together
>the three have been on the same pantheon before
>Asmodeus, The First of the Gods and Namer of All Things has a REALLY STRONG CARE for leader among the gods, especially since he lead one of the two factions during the original wars between the gods
>The Smith, The Namer, and Guardian make a better set than The Healer, The Smith, the Healer, The Dreamer, and the Woodsman (was going pretty good until the Woodsman)
>None of those gods have a good case of being the leader except Sarenrae, and even then hers is inherited

>> No.51783417

I have seen no case made for your set. My case consists of:
>the three of them have been in leadership roles among the gods before, particularly Asmodeus
>we have evidence of the three working closely together
>the three have been on the same pantheon before
>Asmodeus, The First of the Gods and Namer of All Things has a REALLY STRONG CASE for leader among the gods, especially since he lead one of the two factions during the original wars between the gods
>The Smith, The Namer, and Guardian make a better set than The Healer, The Smith, the Healer, The Dreamer, and the Woodsman (was going pretty good until the Woodsman)
>None of those gods have a good case of being the leader except Sarenrae, and even then hers is inherited

>> No.51783422

Evil < Good

>> No.51783457

>the three of them have been in leadership roles among the gods before
>None of those gods have a good case of being the leader except Sarenrae
Torag is in both. Just stop.

>> No.51783471

Make a case for a god against Asmodeus, The First, Namer of All Things. What qualifications does your god have. Some of his include:
>lead the victorious faction during The War In Heaven
>was the one tho actually imprison Rovagug
>named all the god, and all things

Yes and Torag does not have a case for being a leader by himself. Sarenrae does because of her relation to Asmodeus's brother Ihys.

Your not actually making any cases you're just being buttmad.

Heck Apsu is a much better choice for a good leader among the gods because of his own creation myth.

>> No.51783557

Has anyone else considered the Psionic Awakening feat from Bloodforge: Infusions on an unarmored character?

>Psionic Awakening (Heritage, Psionic)
>You have a strong spark of psionic talent.
>Benefit: Choose inertial armor, mindlink, or vigor. You can use that power as a psi-like ability once per day, with a manifester level equal to your character level. At character level 4th and every four levels thereafter, you can use the chosen power one additional time per day.

Consider a 9th-level character with some sort of unarmored AC bonus. If they take Psionic Awakening, since psi-like abilities are automatically augmented up to the highest manifester level, they suddenly have three 9-hour buffs of +8 AC (applies to force effects) each day. That is not bad for a feat, considering it scales higher and higher, and considering that it can help even light-armored characters.

>> No.51783596

IHYS uttered the first sound. IHYS created the first mortals. Asmodeus killed him. Traitorous murderers don't typically make for stable and benevolent leaders.

Please. I'm mad? You're the one who first said my opinions were objectively wrong.

The point of a pantheon is that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. They have a much wider range than your three. And I reject the idea that all leaders need a prior claim to leadership. If that were true then there would never be any new leaders.

>> No.51783643

You're still not making a claim as to why your grouping actually make good leaders. What are their qualifications.

Torag, Apsu, and Sarenrae make good deific leaders on the good side. Torag is actually the weak link here. Apsu because of his creation myth and Sarenrae for both being in that role and her relation to Ihys.

Asmodeus makes a good deific leader on the evil side as he has been in that role before.

Among neutral gods Pharasma makes a good choice.

>They have a much wider range than your three. And I reject the idea that all leaders need a prior claim to leadership. If that were true then there would never be any new leaders.
Ok, then make your case why Desna and Erastil would be good leaders among the gods. What are their qualifications. What in their portfolio or domains makes them suitable to lead the gods? Why should established gods who have taken leadership positions before move aside for these two?

>> No.51783651

Leaders don't need a prior claim to leadership, but people who have previously been established as leaders are a better bet.

>> No.51783666

>IHYS created the first mortals.
Also to mention this is actually incorrect. Asmodeus and Ihys created the first mortals together. Ihys names himself and his brother, the two of them named the rest.

>> No.51783678

>And I reject the idea that all leaders need a prior claim to leadership.
Gods who have been in leadership roles multiple times when conflict faces the gods, both external and internal, make better bets for leaders then gods with no experience with it. I'm still not seeing why half your gods are on your list.

>> No.51783703

False, Satan.
>Then clever Ihys made a discovery that would forever shatter the serenity of these early epochs. He created a new life.

>> No.51783716

>their lack of a central culture means they lack training with the larger weapons they might be expected to use


>> No.51783728

Ah yes you are correct, they shaped reality together and Ihys fucked it up by creating mortals. I admit you are correct here.

I would agree Ihys would make a good leader if he wasn't dead as a doornail. However I'm still not seeing the reasoning behind half your choices.

>> No.51783733

Increased manifester level alone on inertial armor would only affect the duration of the power. You would still need to augment the power with power points in order to up the AC. So at 9th level, you would have someone who could manifest +4 to AC for 9 hours at a time 3x per day. On the other powers, the only benefit increased manifester would provide is to allow you to spend power points to augment the power and to resist dispel attempts. Nowhere in the text you quoted does it say free or automatic augments. Cool, but not overwhelming.

>> No.51783743

Torag for Toil. Erastil for Community. Sarenrae for Healing. Shelyn for Protection. Desna for Imagination.

>> No.51783747


This is why we need to push Amalthea!

>> No.51783750

Also one of my favorite bits:
>Asmodeus, devasted by his brother's act, showed Ihys the chaos and destruction that he had sowed, and Ihys became the first being to know regret
Ihys regretted making mortals until Sarenrae game up and tried convincing him otherwise.

>> No.51783758

I'm stupid, I didn't read where you said psi like abilities are automatically augmented.

>> No.51783770

Uh, anon?

Amalthea's the one who'd be doing the pushing.

>> No.51783774 [DELETED] 


This is untrue.

Ultimate Psionics, page 137:
>Some psi-like abilities duplicate existing psionic powers; unless specified otherwise, such psi-like abilities are manifested as if the psionic power were augmented to the limit of the creature’s effective manifester level.

>> No.51783782

Push her off a bridge, maybe.

>> No.51783803


This is untrue.

Ultimate Psionics, page 137:
>Some psi-like abilities duplicate existing psionic powers; unless specified otherwise, such psi-like abilities are manifested as if the psionic power were augmented to the limit of the creature’s effective manifester level.

A 9th-level character with Psionic Awakening (Inertial Armor) has three 9-hour uses of Inerial Armor each day.

Each use is at manifester level 9th and has an effective 9 power points placed into it, for a +8 armor bonus to AC.

This is incredibly useful for characters with an unarmored AC bonus, and still somewhat useful for light-armored characters, considering how this scales.

>> No.51783830

Those aren't reasoning of why they make good leaders.

>Torag for Toil.
See Shelyn.

>Erastil for Community.
If you want community Abadar is far more qualified in the same position as cities are in his portfolio. Erastil is not really qualified nor has the demeanor to lead the gods, who the fuck would follow him?

>Sarenrae for Healing.
Sarenrae is much more qualified as a war god by most of her actions. However I relent here.

>Shelyn for Protection.
Again Abadar is more qualified here. Also Shelyn has the whole issue of having her insane half brother being around. Also fucking Torag has protection and is far more established at it than Shelyn.

>Desna for Imagination.
Desna doesn't have much that makes her a leader in my mind, looking through her history she has never taken a leadership role.

None of these are great reasoning to make them good leaders among the gods. I still see no qualifications though action for you to speak of. I have mentioned qualifications Sarenrae and Torag have. You're gonna need a more convincing case, especially for Erastil and Shelyn.

>> No.51783854

First of all, kick out Erastil, he is an embarrassment on that list, same with Shelyn. Desna should be out too.

Sarenrae, Torag, and add Apsu

>> No.51783939

Why do buda (hyenas), coyōtl (coyotes), and tanuki (raccoon-dogs) all still transform into foxes? Nothing about their statistics changes the way the yōkai alternate racial trait works, and that trait is quite specific on your true form being that of a fox.

Granted, this is probably a benefit for buda and coyōtl, because seeing a fox is significantly less alarming than seeing a hyena or a coyote, but it is still quite strange.

>> No.51783946

What're your favourite impractical feats?

>> No.51783977

Hey, writer of those three subraces here. The intention was always that they take the form of the animal they're modeled after, not a fox - I kind of thought everyone else would make the same leap of logic I did. Sorry about that, we'll be adding text to clarify that they do indeed take hyena/coyote/raccoon dog forms soon. The stats are the same as the fox, though.

>> No.51783997

This was primarily a balance choice; large size being as powerful as it is meant we didn't want to make them absolutely ridiculous with virtual/real size increases making their damage dice massive as well. The fluff is basically meant to be that due to their lack of a particularly cohesive social structure, they never really develop weapon use and struggle with it more than other races... which is a little weak as justifications go, I'll admit, but you know how it is with those 64d8 Vital Strike builds.

>> No.51784008

I was reading the Eobard Love sheet the other day, and I understand it's supposed to be completely raw legal, but can you really turn mithral full plate into celestial plate?

>> No.51784021

You can have Celestial Plate made out of Mithral, yes. You can actually change the material of any unique armor.

>> No.51784038

Is there a citation on that?

>> No.51784042

I get that it's a balance choice and agree there, it's just that the justification doesn't hold water very well. I'm not seeing the connection between social structure and training with weapons, or why one would affect the other. Plenty of other creatures with Large size and little social structure and still utilize large weapons.

>> No.51784044

So I seem to recall hearing/reading some time ago that Desna is not actually native to Golarion. That she was actually some sort of gibbering horror or other alien creature from offworld/out of the solar system and just takes the form of an elf for convenience's sake. That right or no?

>> No.51784052

Who is Eobard Love?

>> No.51784056


Buda and coyōtl would need some side benefit in hyena or coyote form so as not to alarm people. A fox is significantly more useful as a "cover" than a dangerous-looking hyena or coyote.

Perhaps, since the yōkai alternate racial trait removes the penalty for disguising as a Tiny "fox" anyway, buda and coyōtl can pose as young hyenas or coyotes respectively? It is not as though hyenas or coyotes are Tiny-sized anyway.

>> No.51784060

Are there any Unchained Rogue archetypes that trade out Finesse Training?

>> No.51784086


Note that tiger catfolk (and gamla) are screwed over by taking the Bakeneko race trait.

A tiger catfolk or a gamla with Bakeneko has a human form as their second form, which will probably not be Large-sized. They would also still keep Undersized Weapons, knocking them down to Small-sized weaponry.

>> No.51784091

and then torture them if they disagree with her or fail at trivia.

>> No.51784094

You're gonna use that dex to damage


>> No.51784141


There are these, but they are all third-party, and by Everyman Gaming.





>> No.51784144

I suppose? That does nothing to improve what is a very thin justification for their use of smaller weapons. Though for that matter, that trait is ridiculous, and additionally I wouldn't consider "you get arguably less benefit from this particular trait" to be an acceptable method of mechanical balance.

>> No.51784172

I need traps for my dungeons.
There is any book in the line of Traps & Treachery or Grimtooth's Wurst of traps for Pathfinder done by a third party publisher?

>> No.51784181


I am not arguing against you. From a mechanical perspective, I think that the tiger catfolk is perfectly fine; it is essentially a variant gamla.

What I dislike is how Bakeneko screws over tiger catfolk (and gamla), and how the cheetah, the jaguar, the manual, and the regular catfolk are currently heavily overshadowed by the lion, the lynx, and the tiger.

>> No.51784196

Are saves arbitrary?

>> No.51784217

>Organization solitary, pair, or harem (3–12)

The players encounter a dozen elven maidens chained in a dungeon. They're all crying and begging for help!

But in truth, they're all succubi (male)!

>> No.51784232

Then they are incubi, which do have different stats than succubi.

>> No.51784267

All archetypes are made to pretend unchained never happened and the chained rogue didn't have finesse training to trade out.

>> No.51784274

>dedicated Sun God

What the fuck is Spheres of Power and TFW and PoM or whatever?

>> No.51784285

>>tfw Asmodeus is unique as the only god with two distinct alignments that both fully function as his alignment as a deity

>> No.51784294

There's a city somewhere on Golarion that worships him as a...I want to say L-N god.

>> No.51784333

Yes, is that one in Distant Shores.
They represent Asmo as a buxom devil lady though because is a feminazi utopia.

>> No.51784339

Huh. Cool?

Why no love for Apsu, being one of the first beings in existence?
Great leader best dragon

>> No.51784346

Because he fucked up with his own family?
Apsu is a synonym of disfunctional family, gnoll.

>> No.51784385


Best Dragon, and Best Leader is Queen Lua Culdranth of Dragon Game.

>> No.51784394

Fuck off with your Donut Steel.

>> No.51784409

So is Desna a space alium or what?

>> No.51784413

What are some good general-use languages to know?

>> No.51784433

She's a pathetic waste of time.

>> No.51784435

Is an Azathoth dream which gained self conscience and somehow ended in the chaotic aligned area of the upper realms from the Dreamlands.

>> No.51784442

The bakeneko trait is intended to be a flavor choice. They don't pass as giants in the folklore, they pass as human. You are entirely free to not take that trait if you want to remain a large sized humanoid.

In practice, yeah, it's a bit messy. I'm not exactly attached to the one line of fluff I wrote to justify game balance - if you guys have got ideas, I can work on improving that. ^^

>> No.51784455

Shut up you terrible futa.

>> No.51784479

Can't hear you over this beast domain.

>> No.51784499

That is what pisses me off more of you, that you murdered Churcannus so you could be banged by something when your husbando got bored of you.

>> No.51784514

The most recent session of Dragons has concluded!

This time...

>The party begins slowly crossing the rope bridges in the next room.
>Loud roaring is heard
>The Golem from last session makes its return, shaking stalactites loose from the ceiling and starting to destroy bridges.
>The party begins QUICKLY crossing the rope bridges.

>Astarte takes the long way around due to initially being separated from the group by a destroyed bridge. Ends up getting across with no issues.
>Atolm can fly, so he spends the combat bombarding the Golem.
>Freyda pulls Lameeka back onto solid ground after she whiffs a jump due to her fat ass (She rolled a 2), and then throws Celisse over before jumping herself.
>Zev jumps and glides over a different gap to safety.
>Atolm shoots it in the leg and it falls over into the abyss.

>Party proceeds.

>Trapped room with glass-shard-shooting pillars sensitive to movement.
>Trap/hipbold stealths and reflex-saves her way across room
>Disables trap mechanism through application of violence.


>> No.51784520

Might just be my experience, but I usually get a lot of mileage out of orcish and goblin. Draconic and Elvish are the sort of language that SOMEONE in the party should know, so why not you?

>> No.51784557

Give me a legal way to carry around a blacksmithing station while travelling.

I'm thinking I might be able to equip a large wagon with UC building rules.

>> No.51784564


That is a persistant fucking golem.

>> No.51784566


>The bakeneko trait is intended to be a flavor choice.
It is not just a flavor choice when transforming into a legitimately Tiny creature offers all kinds of avenues for infiltration and getting into places that would otherwise be out of reach.

>They don't pass as giants in the folklore, they pass as human.
There are also few manul catfolk in folklore, yet here we are with a manul subrace. I do not think you should be bound by folklore here; I could easily see a bakeneko from a Small-sized race passing themselves off as a Small-sized halfling in their disguise, or tiger Bakeneko pretending to be a Large-sized giant.

>> No.51784587

Well, ascending to godhood and becoming one of Golarion's core deities was pretty good, too.

>> No.51784595

This is why traits are shit. They're meant to be something that adds flavor to the character but end up being nothing more than something else you minmax and try to insert into your backstory.

Not to mention the trait in question is worth FAR more than 1/2 a feat.

>> No.51784605

>One trial remains, or so declares the disembodied voice speaking half in Gnomish.

>Room is empty, except for a teleportation rune in the center. It is deduced that the rune only receives, not sends.
>Oh hey remember that golem GUESS WHOOOOOO
>It compresses, repairs, and reconstructs itself into a smaller (Read: Large, not Gargantuan) size.


>Astarte retracts her armor into bikini mode so she can actually cast, proceeds to throw oodles of fire.
>Everyone is knocked down due to an earthquakeslam trip.
>Zev scores a 20+ damage crit with her parasol.
>Golem discards sword at low HP and its fists explode into blue fire. Proceeds to blast Astarte with force-damage fire.
>Atolm once again with the killshot.

>In the Queen's old lab
>Boodles of magic stuff all over the place
>Supermagical glass bead inside crystalline cage.
>Upon approach, it activates, revealing itself as a tiny dragonlike fairylike creature
>It introduces itself as the Queen's codex, a living repository of her research notes and other things.
>It has the formula for the Motus, and offers the party the exit and a rest.
>After pillaging the room, the party obliges

(2/3 it turns out, greentexting is haaard.)

>> No.51784607

Depends. If your campaig takes place in Golarion then all is relative to continent.
In Avistan: taldan (a.k.a. Common), varisian (is the traders choice when dealing in black market affairs), sylvan (there is a fucton garillion fae), giant (wouldn't believe how abundant giants are in Avistan), infernal (if you have to deal with Cheliax authorities and want to be also able to understand devils) and finally celestial (lots of empyreal lord cults among the commoners, good way to get them be friendly).

>> No.51784613

At this point, that's more encouragement to restrict them to a single size like the kitsune than to allow more shapes. We have no issue with the slightly odd rules interaction of being adopted into the bakeneko's two forms. We also have no intention of offering additional support to the style.

>> No.51784619


Also, any pure spellcaster caster can and should take the Bakeneko race trait via Adopted, so that they can transform into a Tiny-sized cat in preparation for combat and enjoy +2 AC. That is *not* just a flavor choice.

>> No.51784636


I am just concerned about the Bakeneko race trait having so much weirdness surrounding it, from the fact that tiger catfolk are severely screwed over for taking it (enjoy your Medium size and Small-sized weapons), to it being a top-notch feat for pure spellcasters and pure manifesters who want +2 AC in combat.

Even an actual catfolk pure spellcaster or pure manifester may as well take Bakeneko for +2 AC in combat.

>> No.51784638

Please tell me this is canon. I have an opportunity to talk shit about Desna in game and want to make the most of it.

>> No.51784654

This is true. I will raise restricting it exclusively to catfolk and/or making it only small/medium size to the other authors, so it does not dwarf the effectiveness of other traits.

>> No.51784668


As well, what *does* happen when a yōkai kitsune takes Bakeneko through Adopted?

Their yōkai alternate racial trait and their Bakeneko race trait will conflict on what their true form actually is, and what they can disguise themselves as.

>> No.51784673

Traits are seriously a shit feature
There are too many of them and they are always written with some context in mind that nobody respects anyway

>> No.51784675

Is old canon that showed in the official forums back in 2007. James Jacobs hinted that the reason Desna approached and befriended Churcannus was that she needed information to understand the Prime Material Plane better after Earth Fall. Before the collapse of Azlant she was only a goddess of dreams and luck, but not a good aligned one.
It was the Beast God which who made her shed out her domain on nightmares so she couldn't lure the attention of her daddy or worse.

>> No.51784678

>The party proceeds through the door indicated by the Codex
>Finds themselves in a new location
>Right in front of the Queen

>She congratulates the party on passing her trial, as well as retrieving her best friend (Codex), whom she thought dead.
>She did actually need the Motus recipe though
>Mix up Motus brew for the Queen, which is made from aloe vera, coffee, red wine, cilantro, and dragon blood.
>She is revitalized, shaken from her torpor, and is visibly more 'alive'.

>She looks at the party and says
>"What say you about taking over the world?"

~Session end~

Christ I am bad at greentexting someone else do it next time.

>> No.51784680

This immediately jumped out to me when I read it. I know you're stuck as a Tiny creature so you don't enjoy the same freedom as a Druid, but nevertheless Druids have to take a feat to get this ability. So there's the 1/2 feat value right there, but then there's a ton of other shit stacked on top of it, and it's all very very useful. This is FAR beyond the realm of a trait. And then there's this scenario:

>be dwarf with Adopted/Bakeneko traits
>forms are now a cat and a human
>am somehow still a dwarf

>> No.51784683

Isn't EVERYONE a dream of Azathoth? And everyTHING?

>> No.51784689


You did alright.

>"What say you about taking over the world?"
Fucking CALLED IT!

>> No.51784700


As I have pointed out before, you could wind up with some admittedly hilarious scenarios such as a tengu or an orc or whatnot selecting Additional Traits upon leveling up, taking Adopted and Bakeneko with one of the trait slots, and then forevermore changing their forms to "cat" and "human with feline features."

This, I do not actually have a problem with. The part where Small and Large races get screwed over by taking Bakeneko, and the part where Tiny size grants +2 AC, I do take issue with.

>> No.51784717

>As I have pointed out before, you could wind up with some admittedly hilarious scenarios such as a tengu or an orc or whatnot selecting Additional Traits upon leveling up, taking Adopted and Bakeneko with one of the trait slots, and then forevermore changing their forms to "cat" and "human with feline features."

I'd argue that this specific example is more of a logic problem, and is the purview of a GM to handle. The rules don't exist in a vacuum.

>> No.51784729


I *did* say that I took no issue with that specific use of Bakeneko.

>> No.51784744

Many race traits that alter physical features are nonsensical with the Adopted trait. Adopted/Carnation Scales gives any race pink scales, Adopted/Nine-Tailed Scion allows a Human Monk to take Magical Tail in place of their monk bonus feats. Meanwhile, many traits that can be taken through Adopted grant no benefit at all due to referencing a feature that they do not possess. There is not a significant balance concern with bakeneko being suboptimal for some builds.

Small and Large races who do not wish to cease being that size should not take Bakeneko. The documents will shortly be updated to have Tiny bakeneko will now only gain the size bonuses to AC and attack rolls as if they were small (though they gain all other benefits and penalties of the tiny size category.)

>> No.51784746


What are we doing tonight Queen?

Same thing we do every night Children. Try to take over the world!

>> No.51784747

Are you ready to go full Boardwalk Empire & Dragons at the end of Strange Aeons?

>> No.51784755

Its not easy worship Caiden during the Prohibition.

>> No.51784770

>Seoni is still a big fat slut

>> No.51784771

>Try to fuck the entire world.

>> No.51784776


I mean... its not entirely incorrect.

>> No.51784814

ncie cat

>> No.51784815


Funnily enough this was technically suggested already in game.

Control the world through a metric to of political marriages. The Dragon Queen has enough children that is possible to get at least one in every country in both Avistan and Garund.

>> No.51784841

True to be told a campaign taking place in the early late 10s and early 20s would be awesome.

>> No.51784851


Are there any better Magical Realm items than this?

>> No.51784870


I think these are almost as good for a fraction of the cost.

>> No.51784871

Does Undetectable Alignment work against Gods?

>> No.51784922


>There is not a significant balance concern with bakeneko being suboptimal for some builds.
>Small and Large races who do not wish to cease being that size should not take Bakeneko.

I could understand this if all catfolk were Medium, but instead, there are Small and Large catfolk.

Why are they to be told, "Sorry, but you should not be taking Bakeneko"? It is arbitrary to impose an effective disadvantage upon manuls and tigers wanting to be bakeneko.

>The documents will shortly be updated to have Tiny bakeneko will now only gain the size bonuses to AC and attack rolls as if they were small (though they gain all other benefits and penalties of the tiny size category.)
Why not do exactly what the yōkai alternate racial trait did: make the animal form Small, but give no penalties for disguising as a Tiny cat? Similar wording already exists in the Bakeneko race trait, so this should not be a problem at all.

>> No.51784960

I do picture a mid-level Pathfinder character in a Call of Cthulhu game in my mind going more or less like this:

>> No.51784976


While we are at it, is Psionic Awakening (Inertial Armor) supposed to have it augmentation scale, as detailed in >>51783557 or >>51783803?

It seems like a cheap way of gaining a massive, incorporeal-applicable armor bonus to AC by 8th- or 9th-level. It is obviously not for medium- or heavy-armored characters, but for a character who is supposed to be in no armor or light armor, it is certainly something.

A 9th-level druid taking Psionic Awakening (Inertial Armor) is suddenly enjoying a +8 armor bonus to AC regardless of the form they take, for the price of a single feat.

>> No.51785004

Nice cat

>> No.51785009

We'll be updating the document so that, as a Bakeneko, your disguised form is always the same size as your natural size without the race trait.

I'm afraid that wasn't my work, but I'm bringing it up. No answers yet.

>> No.51785018

Ugh, responded to the wrong post. Sorry, anon, that bakeneko update was meant to be in response to you.

>> No.51785049

>letting 2hu have influence over DSP projects

>> No.51785050

What would be a good class for someone that turns himself and other things into dinosaurs?

>> No.51785070

>People I don't like should never have influence over anything, even when they're right!

>> No.51785075

>Desna is actually a hideous cthulhuesque space mothra

>> No.51785076


Thank you. I appreciate the change to Bakeneko, and hopefully, those wishing to play manul or tiger bakeneko will as well.

>> No.51785087

After discussion, we've determined that inertial armor was indeed too strong a choice for a power to be granted by that feat, and will be changing it to something more in line with the other options.

This is a public playtest. Legitimate points about balance issues were brought up, and the fact that the tiger and manul bakeneko were unable to benefit from the trait introduced in the book was unintuitive and, frankly, a trap option. DSP aims to be responsive to community feedback.

>> No.51785108

Saurian Shaman, though your GM won't let you get near it if he has a brain

>> No.51785124

What does it do?

>> No.51785126


Thank you. I eagerly await the appearance of Bakeneko 2.0 and Psionic Awakening 2.0.

Is there any word concerning the lynx's foresight applying even to mental skill checks, and the cheetah, the jaguar, and the manul being underpowered compared to the other three cats?

>> No.51785139

Heightened wildshaping, standard action summoning able to apply templates. The "restriction" is that everything has to be either a dinosaur or a reptile, which isn't very restrictive.

>> No.51785161

We don't see any issue with Foresight applying to mental skill checks (though it is going to get some weakening). We're currently discussing potential changes to the jaguar. The Manul has gained the Slow and Steady racial trait, which should bring them up a little, but we are indeed discussing improvements to those three subraces.

>> No.51785172

You don't see a problem with a 1 per minute d20 reroll?

>> No.51785186

Hey /pfg/, 5e player here. I've recently joined a friends Pathfinder campaign and I'm having a hard time getting used to how much more crunchy Pathfinder is than 5e. Do you have any tips or tricks to help myself get more familiar with the system/transition from the simple and streamlined mechanics of 5e?

>> No.51785190

We do not see a problem with the ability applying specifically to mental skill checks. The ability itself is going to be rebalanced, and may eventually not apply to mental skill checks - or possibly even resemble its current form. However, we do not see a problem with a reroll that functions on mental skill checks and other effects given the lynx catfolk's fluff.

>> No.51785194

Your table will probably just gloss over or ignore all the crunchy shit. Can you be more specific about what you're struggling with?

>> No.51785196

>We don't see any issue with Foresight applying to mental skill checks
Because seeing a couple seconds into the future lets you use Bluff/Diplomacy/Intimidate/Knowledge/Perception/Sense Motive more effectively?

>> No.51785202

>tfw 2hu was the one who balanced DSPcatfolk

>> No.51785210

Mostly just the sheer amount of shit to keep track of. I'm playing a dwarven Kineticist(probably not the smartest pick for a new player I'll admit) and there's just so much going on I find myself losing track of all the bonuses to add and what exactly I am capable of.

>> No.51785214

Write it down? I'm not sure what to tell you that wouldn't be obvious.

>> No.51785218


The manul might as well receive "Wisdom instead of Dexterity for Stealth checks" outright.

Given that it is a Strength/Wisdom race with no Dexterity bonus, and one whose racial features are reliant on Stealth, the race may as well integrate a trait that is nigh-mandatory for it anyway.

>> No.51785226

If you're new, check out this guide on character building:


And this guide written about the kineticist


They're both written by the same guy named Jolly and they're really helpful.

>> No.51785235

>Kineticist(probably not the smartest pick for a new player I'll admit)

Probably not the smartest pick for any player, period, unless you can use Jolly or Forrest's stuff.

>> No.51785285

It gets the size bonus to stealth already. Manul doesn't need the Dex bonus.

>> No.51785357


Perception checks can get *very* high on monsters, and being Strength-based and thus pushed towards medium/heavy-armored classes certainly is not doing the manul any favors.

Additionally, Wisdom in the Flesh will *still* be a must-have for manuls anyway, since it provides a significant chunk of Stealth for them.

>> No.51785390

This is the same shit that makes you say you have to play samsarans.

>> No.51785402

Sorry about this, turns out I was making assumptions. The bonus on mental skill checks will be removed.

It's not a must-have unless you are both determined to get the maximum stealth modifier possible, and you're wisdom-primary. This applies to all wisdom races. As the game is not tuned to punish people who fail to optimize to the maximum extent, we do not believe Wisdom in the Flesh is a must-have, as you put it.

>> No.51785413


While we are at it, would it be possible to present some sort of trait (not necessarily a race trait) that can give a catfolk darkvision?

"Cats can see in the dark" is iconic, even if it is not entirely true, and it is a little puzzling for blinklings (Bloodforge 1's canine race) to have both low-light vision and darkvision, while catfolk still have nothing on that front.

>> No.51785430


Okay, but since they are already being pushed into medium/heavy-armored builds due to Strength/Wisdom and slow and steady, at least give them some ability to ignore Stealth penalties from armor check penalties.

As it currently stands, a Strength/Wisdom-based manul warder or whatnot is going to have a gutted Stealth bonus due to armor.

>> No.51785438

>As the game is not tuned to punish people who fail to optimize to the maximum extent

Get ready for a revelation about who you're speaking with.

>> No.51785453


>and you're wisdom-primary. This applies to all wisdom races

Also, I would like to contest this. Most Wisdom races do not, in fact, have racial abilities that encourage heavy usage of Stealth. The manul actually does.

>Ambush: Manul catfolk work best with the element of surprise. When a Manul catfolk would participate in the surprise round, they gain a +2 racial bonus on their initiative check, and deal an additional 2 points of damage on melee attacks during the surprise round. This racial trait replaces cat’s luck.
>Padded Feet (Ex): Manul catfolk can move at full speed without penalty when using the Stealth skill. This racial trait replaces sprinter.

Stealth is one of those "all or nothing" skills. If you do not have it very high, you might as well not have it at all.

Given that manuls are probably going to be in medium or heavy armor, Wisdom in the Flesh is looking more and more necessary to actually employ ambush and padded feet effectively.

>> No.51785458

I gotta admit I kinda like the idea of any race being able to become Bakeneko through use of the adopted trait.
"Me clan was killed by those damned orcs! Then the cat folk came and let me live among them. Seeing as otherwise I would have starved I agreed. I'dda refused if I'd known they'd make me one of them! I WAS ONCE A DWAAARRRFFFF!"

Also could make for a fun trait to slap onto a transmutation focused wizard to show off that not all learning experiences go smoothly.

>> No.51785496

So my character now has a familiar that is literally twice as intelligent as he is (9 Int V 18 Int) How can I use this to enhance gameplay

>> No.51785540


New thread.

>> No.51785549

We were on page 7, you dweeb.

New threads only on page 8+.

>> No.51785664

Manul will be gaining a -3 reduction to armor check penalties on stealth. We do not believe that perception checks scale so high that a dex tertiary check made with maximum ranks, would fail at a rate that would impede gameplay. If you have numbers to prove otherwise, they would be very much appreciated - we are only human, after all, and might have missed something or miscalculated, in spite of our best efforts.

>> No.51785671

>an embarassment

>> No.51785790


Essentially, it is a concern that over the stretch from CR 1 to CR 20, average monster Perception rises at a rate higher than 1 per CR.


A CR 1's average Perception modifier is +4.6, while a CR 20's average Perception modifier is +33.8, which means an average Perception increase of ~1.54 to Perception over the course of those 19 CR increases.

Having a primary or secondary score keyed to Stealth is a great help for this, since you will probably be raising that score with level advancement, items, and so on.

Magic items, of course, can shore this up, but then that is patching the issue with magic items.

>> No.51786215

>but then that is patching the issue with magic items.
Isn't that a big part of what the system assumes anyway.

>> No.51787546

>tfw CR3 opponent is an "Average" encounter for a party of 8 level 1 characters

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