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[ERROR] No.51421222 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

> Latest News
> New Unearthed Arcana: Rangers and Rogues
http://media.wizards.com/2016/dnd/downloads/2017_01_UA_RangerRogue_0117JCMM.pdf
> Don't forget to rate the Artificer in the official survey:
http://sgiz.mobi/s3/9c17dda91a1d

> Official /5eg/ Mega Trove v4b
https://mega.nz/#F!z8pBVD4Q!UIJWxhYEWy7Xp91j6tztoQ

> Pastebin with resources and so on:
http://pastebin.com/X1TFNxck

> /5eg/ Discord server
https://discord.gg/0rRMo7j6WJoQmZ1b

> 5etools
https://5egmegaanon.github.io/5etools/5etools.html

> Previous thread
>>51411086

So the artificer has been out for a few weeks now. Anyone had any experience with it? Pros? Cons? What are the simplest changes WotC could make to make it better?

>> No.51421240

> discord server
Delete this

>> No.51421288 [DELETED] 

>>51421222
https://discord.gg/vDFsRg2

You have the wrong discord, but I forgive you. Just start using the right one so no one is confused about which is the official one.

>> No.51421324

I'm in two games with artificer alchemists, both at 5th level now. One is having a decent time with it, using thunderstone often, but the other is bored because it's basically a warlock-type "spam at-will with a few tricks per rest" class, but even more focused than the warlock due to the nature of its subclasses.

>> No.51421454

So
Warlock and Sorcerer
How to bring them up to par with wizard?

>> No.51421474

Why is the mariner fighting style just better than the defense fighting style?

>> No.51421503

>>51421240
>>51421288

So this is every thread now, huh.

>> No.51421519

>>51421474
Because Dex is a more useful stat than Strength unless you're the Ultratank Eldritch Knight build that wants Heavy Armor Master.

>> No.51421525

>>51421288
You are one pathetic shitstain.

>>51421222
All OPs, fucking delete the discord links. It only promotes shitflinging and shitposting.
If you're from the discords, fuck off with your whinging.

>> No.51421530

>>51421454
Don't. Reduce the wizard to their power.

>> No.51421554

>>51421222
>>51421288
Fuck off you pathetic piece of shit.

>> No.51421605

>>51421474
It brings medium armor up to heavy armor but doesn't allow for the use of a shield, while defense can stack with both heavy armor and a shield for ridiculous AC gains.

>> No.51421625

What is the best thing to do with Mystic's conquering mind?

>> No.51421638

>>51421454
I'm planing a campaign for the future and was considering implementing these changes for Bladelocks.

Not sure if anything else will get changed but that is what I have for Bladelocks in particular

>> No.51421736

>>51421638
There's still some problems with that, though it's better than normal.

Consider allowing them to add their warlock level to damage with it instead of their Charisma modifier--that way it starts good and scales well, should keep them on-par with martials and make a solid replacement for EB. It also gives them a reason to stick with warlock instead of multiclassing (though it would still be good with, say, paladin or sorcerer).

It may also be good to add a little more defense or mobility, since if they get into melee they're still squishy and MAD. Medium armor and shield proficiency might help, or you could give them +2 AC while wielding their pact weapon and in light armor.

>> No.51422081

What are the best rituals to pick up and is fly or counterspell a better choice on a warlock?

>> No.51422103

>>51422081
Counterspell is just always a good choice.

>> No.51422148

>>51422103
That's what I was thinking, especially since I can pick up investiture of wind in a level or two.

>> No.51422216

>>51421240
>>51421288
Still throwing a hissyfit that you got banned over your pathetic doxxing/private army requests, huh? Fuck off and stop lurking our generals like some kid throwing a temper tantrum. Faggot.

>> No.51422232

>>51421736
Wouldn't that just make bladelocks objectively better than barbarians in terms of damage? You'd be doing way more than rage damage past 5th level and you'd have spells to increase your damage and survivability as well as hinder your enemies. Not to mention without charisma scaling on your attacks you could reliably pick mountain dwarf/variant human with moderately armoured to get the same amount of defense, then stack your physical stats without caring for charisma at all since you could just pick up buffs or auto-hit spells like hex and armour of agathys.

With that in mind it goes without saying that giving them automatic medium armour proficiency would just make things worse, and there's no way you could give them effectively a two hander with shield effect in any remotely balanced way. Bladelock isn't exactly ideal, but there's no sense in just making them a barbarian with spells.

>> No.51422268

>>51422216
Look at the post you just made. Do you not understand why everyone hates you and wants to remove the discord from the OP?

>> No.51422292

>>51422216
Go. Away. All of you.

>> No.51422315

>>51422216
You just conflated the shitflinging autist who created Discord 2:Cancer Boogaloo with an anon who just wants Discord removed from /5eg/ entirely.

Congratulations, you're retarded. Now all of you discord fuckers >>>/out/

>> No.51422353

Tbh this discord drama is the funnest part about 5eg. I'm just glad all the right people got banned.

>> No.51422388

>>51422232
The damage bit is fair. I had forgotten that when I originally did some math on it, I had done "warlock level damage once per turn" with no stacking on extra attack. That way it would work with GFB or BB and you don't always have to do an extra attack. I believe my napkin math put it around or slightly above EB, but still way behind GWM and SS martials, with hex factored in.

>> No.51422426

>>51422353
Drama is never fun, just tedious.

>> No.51422432

What would you recommend me for a cunning and trickster character?

>> No.51422463

>>51422426
That's not true at all. For people invested in the community this is like a soap opera or episode of Jerry Springer. Truly the most exciting thing to happen to 5e in quite a while.

>> No.51422494

>>51422432
An arcane trickster. Then trickster would be in the name and you could constantly use cunning action.

>> No.51422513

>>51422463
No, it's just fucking stupid.
Cut the shit.

>> No.51422526

https://www.dmsguild.com/product/195699/Ravenloft-Bestiary--Monsters-of-the-Dread-Domain?sorttest=true&filters=0_45507_0_0_0_0_0_0

Has anyone purchased this?

>> No.51422531

>>51422463
"the community" isn't 5eg, its a specific subset in a different place, so take it back there. This is two abstractions of meta from D&D 5e

>> No.51422743

Everyone talked about cha-based shillelagh. But what about Arcane Cleric Wis based shillelagh (via maic initiate)

>> No.51422821

>>51422743
What is the benefit of arcana cleric specifically? And shillelagh is normally wis-based and can be gotten by anyone with magic initiate.

>> No.51422827

>>51422743
Monk 1/Arcana Cleric X (Magic Initiate: Druid)

Embrace Wisdom.

>> No.51422841

>>51421240
The discord server is a cool place for alot of us to hang out and talk about the game with a community that's generally pretty chill. There is no problem with it existing or being here, aside from one faggot who banned for attempting to doxx someone and won't shut up about how his discord is the "official" one now (despite being a hugbox with less than 20 active members).

Point is, the discord link is fine for the other 99.9% of us who aren't faggots.

>> No.51422849

>> No.51422872

>>51422821
Wis Based GFB.

>> No.51422884

>>51422841
The amount of shitposting from the original discord suggests otherwise.

>> No.51422885

>>51422872
>GFB
What?

>> No.51422898

>>51422821
>>51422827
Arcana cleric level 8 ability. You add WIS to your cantrip damage.

So GFB or BB shillelagh at that level will do 2d8+WIS+WIS (not including secondary effect), the same as Undying light tomelock.

>> No.51422901

>>51422885
Green Flame Blade.

>> No.51422906

What alignment is the least fun to play and why is it chaotic neutral?

>> No.51422907

>>51422884
You're aware the original discord just wants this thing to die, right? And that all of the shitposting is coming from one guy who's samefagging for attention.

Like seriously, go on the original discord, nobody there is talking about this because we've all decided perpetuating the drama is ban-worthy.

>> No.51422912

>>51422463
It would be amusing if they didn't act like complete mentally deficient shitstains.

>>51422841
You're still banging on about it when literally no one wants any of the discords here. Fuck off with your drama.

You fucks are shitting up these threads when 5eg is usually a chill thread.

>> No.51422915

>>51422885
Arcane cleric can steal wizard cantrip, and count it as cleric cantrip.

Arcane cleric get +wis to damage on any cleric cantrip they cast.

>> No.51422937

>>51422907
The guy already has fucked your name up. And won't stop if discord continues to be posted.
Go promote discord somewhere.

>> No.51422940

>>51422907
I'm sure you can account for literally everyone in that discord's behavior on this anonymous site. Fuck off, we're all sick of your shit.

>> No.51422944

>>51422907
>You're aware the original discord just wants this thing to die, right?
You're aware a good portion of us here want all the discord shit to die, right?
Not even that guy, I'm sick of all the discord shit as well.
Familiarity breeds drama, no matter how much you'll deny it.

>> No.51422957

>>51422915
noice

>> No.51423013

>>51422944
>Familiarity breeds drama, no matter how much you'll deny it.
Fucking this, why else would you come here?

>> No.51423016

>>51422743
I think I'd prefer nature cleric with magic initiate (wizard). GFB won't be as good, but you get heavy armor, a familiar, and more damage scaling.

>> No.51423044

>>51422944
Familiarity breeds children. You're not scared of getting pregnant, are you, Anon-kun?~

>> No.51423047

>>51423013
Exactly, most of us are here for the anonymity specifically so things like this don't happen.
Discord and the like always make this happen, which is why /vg/ is completely fucked, it's unavoidable.

>> No.51423068

>>51422944
Until this whole thing happened, I never once saw anyone complain about the discord link being posted in the opening post. Nobody is stopping you from chatting about anything else, here, anonymously.

The only reason this is an issue is because of one person who thrives on the attention their trolling causes, and it's a damn shame that it's working so well.

>> No.51423081

Who's looking forward to pic related?

>> No.51423097

>>51423081
I am as fuck. Sunless Citadel was the first D&D module I ever ran and I'd love an updated version with hi-res maps.

Please dear god, let Mike Schley do the maps for YTP.

>> No.51423100

>>51422957
> level 8
> 20 WIS
> GFB for 2d8+10 to main target, 1d8+5 to second target
> spiritual weapon for 1d8+5 as bonus action, no need to invest in PAM

That is like.. 38 average damage? Pretty low but still better than pure bladelock, considering the fact that cleric has medium armor and shield proficiency.

> Also optional spiritual guardian for 3d8 damage

>> No.51423104

>>51423068
>The only reason this is an issue is because of one person who thrives on the attention their trolling causes
No, the only reason it's an issue is because of the discord in the first place.
It ALWAYS happens, it's entirely unavoidable.
Look at /vg/.

Again, familiarity breeds drama, no matter how much you'll deny it.

>> No.51423128

>>51423068
Can you fucking not. Are you that autistic that you can't realize it when we tell you we're all sick of your shit, even by association.

You guys weren't afforded attention because you didn't warrant it and went about your business quietly, now you're all fucking screeching attention seekers.

>> No.51423130

What would be the ideal classes for Blackadder's Black Seal?

>> No.51423136

>>51423081
Anything with succubi in it?

>> No.51423139

>>51421736

>warlock level to damage

WHAT

plz my nigga share what you are smokin

>> No.51423153

>>51423097
What was Sunless Citadel about, friend?

>> No.51423199

>>51423081
Fucking Tomb of Horrors? Absolutely.

>> No.51423205

>>51423153
Sunless Citadel was the first module WotC put out for 3e. It consists of small town called Oakhurst, and a large two-level dungeon called the Sunless Citadel. Oakhurst has a few hooks in it (mysterious figures in the night, livestock disappearing, two local adventuring nobles going missing) that leads you to the Citadel.

Inside is a kobold warren looking for their lost white wyrmling, an elven priest sealed away after becoming part-troll, various corridors filled with traps, a massive goblinoid warren, eventually leading to the evil druid in control of it all, who is manipulating the goblinoids to create blights from the evil Gulthias Tree.

It's the origin of twig blights, as well, which have been expanded in the 5e MM.

>> No.51423215

>>51423100
You don't add the same modifier twice.
>GFB for 2d8+5 to main target, then 1d8+5 to the second.

>> No.51423223

>>51423215
There's no such rule in 5e outside of proficiency bonus. If you have features that let you add a modifier more than once, you add it more than once.

>> No.51423237

>>51423016
> not using arcana domain level 16 feature to spam wish simulacrum of yourself. Then use all of them to spam divine intervention to call down
Your god.

>> No.51423258

>>51423081
Assuming the established 258 page count for Wizards adventures, they'll only be devoting 36 pages to each adventure (if all things are equal), will they even do these adventures justice?

>> No.51423269

Am I the only person who hates the Warlock?

It always seems to be a part of the most minmaxed builds, has a habit of attracting edge lords and Bladelocks are the worst thing I've ever had to deal with.

They should never have made one of the core options for a caster be "You get a super cool devil sword". Every time I DM there's always at least one guy who comes up demanding that I use his homebrew fix that's retarded, and then plays a Paladin Warlock multiclass. It's not an original idea, often makes very little sense and very rarely do I get a good explanation for the Paladin levels.

I dunno if it's just my experience but I often have to ask Warlock players to change characters because it's either some op multiclass or is just a bad character in a party dynamic.

>> No.51423291

>>51423269
>It always seems to be a part of the most minmaxed builds
This has to be bait.

>> No.51423305

>>51423269
Warlocks are hard to min-max without cross-classing, at least in comparison to other classes like the Macree Fighter build.

That being said, I hate Warlocks because in 9/10 situations, their best course of action every single turn is to spam Eldritch Blast and they might as well be pic-related.

>> No.51423318

>>51423291
Its a front loaded class, so one of the most common ways to see it is minmaxing fuckholes.

>> No.51423324

>>51423305
While I understand what you're getting at, that turret is hella cool.

>> No.51423332

>>51423291
A 2-3 level dip gives you so much.

>>51423305
Can I play the turret?

>> No.51423343

>>51423215
Are you confusing 5e with pathflounder or ssomething.

>> No.51423348

>>51423258
Many of those adventures were originally very short, page-count-wise. White Plume Mountain (probably the longest of the lot) was only 18 pages, including maps (and with huge type). Sunless Citadel was 33, including all the maps and introduction stuff. Against the Giants is 36-ish with maps.

They should be able to fit it in fine.

>> No.51423357

>>51422526
For that matter, what happened to the DMs Guild in the OP? Is there a backup somewhere?

>> No.51423368

>>51423357
The account that held the DMs Guild and main troves was terminated. I didn't have a Mega backup of the DMs Guild trove like I did the main trove, and interest was so minimal that it wasn't worth reuploading everything.

>> No.51423370 [DELETED] 

>>51423100
>>51423215
>>51423223
The way the spell is written:
>As part of the action used to cast this spell, you must
>make a melee attack with a weapon against one creature
>within the spell's range, otherwise the spell fails.
>On a hit, the target suffers the attack's normal effects,
>and green fire leaps from the target to a different creature
>of your choice that you can see within 5 feet of it.
>The second creature takes fire damage equal to your
>spellcasting ability modifier.
>This spell's damage increases when you reach higher
>levels. At 5th level, the melee attack deals an extra 1d8
>fire damage to the target, and the fire damage to the second
>creature increases to 1d8 +your spellcasting ability
>modifier. Both damage rolls increase by 1d8 at 11th
>level and 17th level.

Primary target:
5th - 1d8
11th - 2d8
17th - 3d8

Secondary (leap to) target:
1st - 1d8+Spellcasting Ability Modifier
5th - 2d8+Spellcasting Ability Modifier
11th - 3d8+Spellcasting Ability Modifier
17th - 4d8+Spellcasting Ability Modifier

Your Spellcasting Ability Modifier only gets added once, and only to the second target. (If it's Wisdom because of the Arcane Cleric and you have 20 Wisdom it's +5)
It could possibly be added more times if there was some kind of class feature but I'm not aware of one.

>> No.51423380

>>51423368
Oh. Okay.
Still, it'd be great if anyone has that ravenloft monsters thing.

>> No.51423393

>>51423370 Correcting my post.
>>51423100
>>51423215
>>51423223
The way the spell is written:
>As part of the action used to cast this spell, you must
>make a melee attack with a weapon against one creature
>within the spell's range, otherwise the spell fails.
>On a hit, the target suffers the attack's normal effects,
>and green fire leaps from the target to a different creature
>of your choice that you can see within 5 feet of it.
>The second creature takes fire damage equal to your
>spellcasting ability modifier.
>This spell's damage increases when you reach higher
>levels. At 5th level, the melee attack deals an extra 1d8
>fire damage to the target, and the fire damage to the second
>creature increases to 1d8 +your spellcasting ability
>modifier. Both damage rolls increase by 1d8 at 11th
>level and 17th level.
Primary target:
1st - nothing
5th - 1d8
11th - 2d8
17th - 3d8
Secondary (leap to) target:
1st - Spellcasting Ability Modifier
5th - 1d8+Spellcasting Ability Modifier
11th - 2d8+Spellcasting Ability Modifier
17th - 3d8+Spellcasting Ability Modifier
Your Spellcasting Ability Modifier only gets added once, and only to the second target. (If it's Wisdom because of the Arcane Cleric and you have 20 Wisdom it's +5)
It could possibly be added more times if there was some kind of class feature but I'm not aware of one.

>> No.51423423 [DELETED] 

>>51423393
>Arcana Domain: Potent Spellcasting
>Starting at 8th level, you add your Wisdom modifier to the damage you deal with any cleric cantrip.
This doesn't have any limitations like the dragon sorcerer and evocation wizard's similar features do. Thus on GFB at the level you get it, you'd add your Wisdom to both the initial and secondary targets (same with BB if you took it).

>> No.51423472

>>51423393
Weapon attack is 1d8+WIS, because of shillelagh.

>> No.51423475

>>51423393
>Arcana Domain: Potent Spellcasting
>Starting at 8th level, you add your Wisdom modifier to the damage you deal with any cleric cantrip.

I did some searches for a Sage Advice on it but it's not clear. Potent Spellcasting doesn't have the limitation that the dragon sorc and evocation wizard have, but it's not clear if it gets added to both targets or not.

>> No.51423488

>>51423393
Weapon attack: 1d8+wis (shillelagh, not counting as cleric cantrip)
GFB primary target: 1d8+wis (arcana domain level 8 feature)
GFB secondary target: 1d8+wis (GFB normal damage)

>> No.51423526

Is there any non-homebrew way to change the damage type of Eldritch Blast?

>> No.51423531

>>51423526
Nope.

>> No.51423532

>>51423526
No.

>> No.51423548

Can you get int-based Shillelagh as a Wizard?

>> No.51423561

>>51423548
Nope.

>> No.51423573 [DELETED] 

>>51423548
No. Theurge cleric get pretty close but there is no RAW telling you to change from WIS to INT.

>> No.51423781

>>51423573
Does anyone actually allow Theurge in their games though? I've never seen any DMs who aren't first-timers allow the class, since it's essentially a wizard who gets access to an entire separate class's spell-list while retaining their own and essentially trades nothing for it.

>> No.51423811

>>51423205
Thanks dude, I was actually picturing something else entirely.

>> No.51423839

>>51423781
>gets access to an entire separate class's spell list
>after 10th level
campaigns_don't_last_that_long_meme.tapestry

>> No.51423843

>>51423811
The citadel itself is a castle that sunk into the ground at some point, sitting at the bottom of a ravine deep enough that it's completely hidden in shadow.

>> No.51423862

>>51423839
>currently level 12, starting from 1
Most people who use milestones do it too slowly. XP is actually pretty quick in 5e if you are doing a reasonable number of combats.

>> No.51423868

>>51423472
>>51423475
>>51423488
Ah, skimmed the previous posts and wasn't seeing all that.

I believe >>51423488 is correct except that the secondary target also gets the Potent Spellcasting damage.

For that matter, both parts of Booming Blade would also get the Potent Spellcasting damage.
Each source of damage gets the mod in this case, unless they change it with Errata like they did Empowered Evocation.

If you happen to be using Empowered Evocation (Wizard Evocation school) and hitting with Green-Flame Blade for whatever reason, then you only add your INT mod once because the rolls are separate. There is nothing strictly determining which roll to apply it to--the primary target or the jump target, so you can choose (in my opinion, since there is no ruling on it and nothing in the books to dictate it). Similar to Scorching Ray.

By the way, for spells like Scorching Ray, I would advise rolling for damage in the same throw as the roll to hit, and choosing which roll gets the INT bonus /before/ you roll. So it's like "Ah, I rolled 6 and 6 +INT but that one missed. I PUSH MY FINGERS INTO MY..." This way you don't cheese it and say "Of course I just add the bonus to one of the attacks that hits!"

>> No.51423869

>>51423839
You get Domain Spells at second level bro.

https://media.wizards.com/2016/dnd/downloads/UA%20Non-Divine%20Faithful%20SFG.pdf

>> No.51423893

>>51423862
>DMG says average party should handle six to eight medium to hard encounters per day

No thanks I like to actually do something other than combat.

>> No.51423901

not to beat a dead horse, but has there been any updates on when the mystic is dropping? or is it still around the end of february?

>> No.51423911

>>51423869
>get 1 domain spell per level until 11th level
>comparable to having access to the full Cleric spell list
>assuming I didn't know what the archetype does
Easy there, friendo.

>> No.51423925

>>51423893
If you don't play the game the way it was designed, complaining about the lack of progression is irrelevant.

>> No.51423929

>>51423811
The citadel itself is a castle that sunk into the ground at some point, sitting at the bottom of a ravine deep enough that it's completely hidden in shadow.

>> No.51423940

>>51423893
>Six to eight combat encounters per DAY.

Fucking geezus man. My game's had two major combat encounter in the last 3 sessions, and each session has been like 3 days time in-game.

Like, I understand if it's a dungeon crawl or something, but damn, in any other situation it's nice to be able to have interests outside of being killbots.

>> No.51423952

>>51423862
In my (granted, limited) experience, the average game that levels at fuckall speed ends up with far more time than anything else dedicating to fucking around and discussing relatively trivial shit

>> No.51423960

>>51423940
>>51423893
Not >>51423862 but XP works fine if you include social encounters like the DMG suggests.

>> No.51423982

>>51423940
Here's the thing though, that's how both progression and spell slots are balanced.
So if you don't have X xp worth of encounters in a rough day, you are going "slower" than intended. Most milestone campaigns I've seen level once or twice per arc, comparatively, you will level roughly 1/X sessions, where tier level from the PHB=X, using XP, particularly if you are including non-combat XP. If not, it may drop to 1/x+1, but that still is far faster than any milestone game i've played.

>> No.51423984

I'm currently running a (non-firearm, per player request) pirate campaign where encounters and loot are themed together, and the party is rewarded for rabble-rousing.

What can i do to make this more fun for players while not being hell for me to manage?

What would you as a player want to see in this setting?

Any ideas for some magical items? I have some that i am using, but need many more.

>> No.51423991

>>51423982
Who in the actual fuck uses EXP points nowadays? It's just extra book-keeping. I tend to just give my players level-ups when they complete plot arcs or otherwise hit important story milestones.

>> No.51424003

>>51423984
Is the party literally rewarded for causing havoc? The only good way i could personally handle that, is to have someone over their heads demanding change. Chaotic god, rebellion, coup, pretender to the throne, the one true king, something like that.

>>51423991
Oh gee, i wonder why so many people never hit level 10.

>> No.51424006

>>51423984
>What would you as a player want to see in this setting?
Intricate sail-swinging mechanics.
Leviathans and other fuckhuge sea monsters.

>Any ideas for some magical items?
Could just rip and re-fluff things from Pirates of the Caribbean.
Get some sick pirate curses in there.

>> No.51424021

>>51424003
In games I've played, we've levelled up faster than our XP should have indicated, we just fucked around way too much to get shit done consistently.

>> No.51424029

>>51423081
>Yet more pre-written adventures
Yay.

Nothing wrong if you enjoy them, though. I just personally can't give a shit. Volo's was at least something.

>> No.51424032

>>51424003
People don't hit level 10 because the game tends to fall apart mechanically around level 12 or 14, especially with casters in the party. By level 10, the player characters are pretty much demi-gods in comparison to most mortals in the setting... but unless you're after some Skyrim-esque power fantasy, it's not a whole lot of fun to play. Past that point the game just becomes an ever inflating power-creep of demons, gods, and extra-dimensional being, and any pretense of the characters being relateable or interesting as normal people goes out the window faster the protagonists of a shonen character who's manga has running for 800 chapters.

>> No.51424038

Do you usually draw your PCs, /5eg/?

>> No.51424045

>>51423925
I actually don't really get the whole 'never beyond 10' statistic.

I think it's more a symptom of how groups can't stick together more than using milestones

>> No.51424055

>>51424032
I'd disagree pretty heavily, I think DMs are just not willing to actually put obstacles in the way of their casters.

The only mechanical problems I have beyond 12 or so is how easy resurrection is and how little high level monsters and such we get.

>> No.51424076

>>51424003
They are within constraints. The captain rewards per slave captured, they keep gold of their kills, etc.

I plan on them "borrowing" a treasure map from an infamous pirate crew, and the rewards take them to a new world island setting where they search for untold riches. And piss off a lot of tropical gods on the way. Not to mention the pirates they stole from and the hardass navy.

>>51424006
I had been thinking of repurposing, but I dont want to offer the players too much at one time. For the most part I am looking for small bits of low loot that they can grab off the corpse of a captain.

For instance, one encounter has boots that assist in jumping, so if you are close enough, you don't have to grapple aboard and make a few checks for it, you can just make a huge ass jump and get first feet on the enemy ship.

I like the bit about curses... I'll look into that.

>> No.51424078

>>51424038
I've just recycled the same drawing. All of my characters end up as a skinny but chiseled dude in a long coat. Usually a Drow Rogue.

>> No.51424094

>>51424038
I can't draw worth shit, so I usually just steal art off the interwebs.

>> No.51424100

>>51423984
>Any ideas for some magical items? I have some that i am using, but need many more.
Do you want
>useful but niche
>Hat of the Eternal Captain
>(Attunement)
>Wearing this hat grants you proficiency in Sea vehicles. If you already are proficient, you may double your proficiency bonus instead. As an action, you may give an order to a creature over which you have authority. That creature gets advantage on its next attack roll or ability check if it follows your orders, otherwise it gets disadvantage on all attack rolls and ability checks until your next turn.

>useful and strange
>Box of the Seaman
>Within this box are a number of tiny Octopus like constructs. Removing one and putting in salt water will cause it to grow to the size of a Giant Octopus, which will attack the nearest creature or boat other than the wielder or anyone on the same boat. Use Giant Octopus statistics, except it is a Construct and not a Beast.
1d4 octopodes per day.
>useful and versatile
>Guard of the Mariner
>+1 Studded Leather (Attunement)
>While wearing this armor, you have a 30 swim speed and 20 climb speed. In addition, you can not be forcibly moved off a boat unless you allow it, instead treat the edge as a wall of force.
Or do you want more eclectic, have to find a use for it things?
>>Oar of the Octopus
>Using this Oar allows you control up to seven other Oars within 60 feet of yourself. They move as if you were using them normally, and you can choose to move them simultaneously, or not.

>> No.51424123

>>51421454
Warlock can't, it's designed like a martial with its short rest spell slots and eldritch blast. I think you'd have to rework either the "always highest level spell slot" or "spell slots back on short rest" mechanic if you want to make them more like wizards.

Sorcerers need better metamagic options, or spell points

>> No.51424124

>>51424045
Of course, either way a group plays will theoretically end up higher than 10, but, in my experience, the groups that use XP are more likely to do so more quickly. That results in groups falling apart before that mark less frequently, although perhaps only in level, and not in IRL time.

>> No.51424131

>>51424076
>small bits of low loot that they can grab off the corpse of a captain
Weak to average strength magic amulets may be worthwhile, as captains would always have the best stuff.
If it's another pirate captain, he'd probably have something really worthwhile on his corpse, after a tough fight, as it's quite likely rare magic items would turn up in plunder, like a ring or two.

If you add a Blackbeard ripoff which you should I'd recommend some wearable item akin to Blackbeard's use of lit fuses in his beard for intimidation.

>For instance, one encounter has boots that assist in jumping, so if you are close enough, you don't have to grapple aboard and make a few checks for it, you can just make a huge ass jump and get first feet on the enemy ship.
That's pretty cool, immediately useful loot is always appreciated.

>> No.51424139

>>51424055
>Allowing Resurrection at all short of the divine intervention of an actual god or through Necromancy with horrible worse-than-death consequences.

>Implying that game doesn't need to change for level 10+ characters when they could literally bring down entire nations on their own based on the typical strength of mortal NPCs (spoiler, most of them are weaker than level 1 players).

>> No.51424144

>>51424006
Forgot to mention, I have some sea monstwr encounters planned.

>Not!Mobydick attacks the ship (enraged by sea god A or some shit)
>players kill the whale
>while dragging body back during night, ropes become cut
>whale missing
>party fucks around
>whale comes back later as zombie, controlled by crazed merfolk necro
>players kill necro and awakened whale
>bodies seperated from ship in a storm
>players fuck around pt. 28
>god confronts players, super pissed
>"now you will face my champions!!"
>whale is a skeletal
>ranimated necrobro back from the dead

Could use work.

>> No.51424161

>>51424144
A Moby Dick that keeps coming back, I love it.
I'd definitely play this, good on you, anon.

>> No.51424176

>>51424139
I mean I houserule resurrection questlines, but on the vanilla mechanical side it's a high level flaw.

On that same note I definitely make at least important NPCs equivalent to PCs in almost every sense. Captain of the guard sure acts high and mighty, might as well have him be a level 10 fighter to rival the parties'

>> No.51424178

>>51424144
I think your flaw is in
>players kill the whale
>while dragging body back during night, ropes become cut
Unless your players just play along, they really have no reason to kill it, and if they do, why do they need to drag it along. Even if they do, they should probably be using chains, and how are they towing a whale big enough to be a threat?

>> No.51424184

>>51424006
Definitely play of the PotC davy jones stuff. Some sort of cursed magic item that can be de-cursed only through divine intervention or the power of love.

They'll never figure it out.

>> No.51424190

How long do the combat encounters in 5e take?

>> No.51424193

>>51424100
I like the hat and leather idea.

First Mates can always use free morale boosts. In a ship setting, getting knocked overboard is pretty much a 6+ turn knockout unless you are real good at climbing or have use of magical rope to prevent grapple tactics.

Octo box seems more like a demigod gifted item to me, but uses range from great to borderline broken.

>> No.51424199

>>51424144
>>51424178
Could be dragging back the whale for a bounty from not!Ahab.

>>51424184
Sounds good.
Even a single use skellie for the night item could be useful, say they've been thrown overboard with no land in sight, then they wouldn't have to worry about drowning.

>> No.51424216

>>51424193
Gotcha, so you want useful, thematic, but not overly strange. I'll think on it a bit.

>> No.51424222

>>51424190
Depends entirely on the group, party makeup, level, enemy makeup, environment, etc. etc.

Not long compared to some past editions, in most cases.

>> No.51424225

>>51424094
Same here my nig, but I sometimes color or alter mine if needed.

>> No.51424232

>>51424190
It depends on amount of players, player classes, player intelligence, number of enemies, strength of enemies, etc, etc.
There are so many variables, it's really a fool's question.

>> No.51424248

Jesus multiclassing prerequisites are super constricting. I just want to have a strength puncher, why do you need me to have fucking 13 wisdom to go monk?

>> No.51424250

Hey gang
I'm looking for a game. Have played plenty of 3.5 and pathfinder, just can't find IRL games because my GM and all the players in my group who weren't That Guy moved away. Is roll20 the way to go or do we have some cool /tg/ games going on? can I find some on the discord? furry / ERP shit need not apply

>> No.51424255

>>51424161

Thanks anon. I hope it turns out as well as in theory.

>>51424178
I thought about adding in a Cap. Ahab charaxter to ask to go whale harpooning with them. Just for obvious plothook reasons. Giving him a whale detecting amulet would be neat.

>also for detecting fat wenches, yarr.

I have made a point to make loot very lucrative for the players. Barrels of salt or wine can be sold just like silk and jewelry. Its all a matter of finding a buyer.

Plus with a whale hunter around, he would want a prize. Is it smart to dedicate an NPC to whale hunting though?

>> No.51424257

>>51424248
Because monks aren't just your average tavern brawler.

>> No.51424264

>>51424257
Then stop giving Monks sole ownership over high-damage punching.

>> No.51424271

>>51424264
It's not my call, anon.
Surely you can figure something out with a Barbarian.
Have a chat with your DM.

>> No.51424276

>>51424199
Yes, sorry anon. My replies are shitty cause im on mobile.

>>51424216
I want to give options for practicality, but also functionality.

Not to say that some items shouldn't be really badass though.

>> No.51424281

>>51424193
>Blade of the Scrimshawer
>Dagger (Attunement)
>This ever sharpened dagger deals an additional 2d4 damage on a hit to any creature with a swim speed.
>While attuned to this dagger, whenever the wielder kills a small or larger Beast with a swim speed, they may spend one hour carving Scrimshaw from its remains. The art piece is worth 2d8 gold, and an additional 2d8 gold per size category above small. This ability can't be used unless the creature died within the last hour.

>> No.51424298

>>51424281
Oh man, I really like that.
Its for the artist who takes his time, but is still eager to slice him some meat.

Bones aren't free, after all.

>> No.51424304

>>51424257
My 8 wisdom Monk begs to differ.

>> No.51424374

>>51424271
Here's how you play an unarmed fighter with barbarian:

At level 20 you do 2d4+11 damage per turn

Meanwhile a monk is doing 4d10 + 5 damage. And has pretty much the only Save-or-Die in the game.

I just want to Asura's Wrath my way through a campaign. Is that too much to ask?

>> No.51424397

>>51422898
Shillelagh changes a weapon but the damage comes from the weapon, not the spell so you wouldn't apply the modifier from the 8th level ability.

>> No.51424412

>>51424298
>Lure Lantern
>This enchanted lantern is made from the head of a mysterious deep sea fish. When water is placed inside the Lantern, it casts bright light in a 30 foot radius, and dim light for an additional 30.
>If placed in the ocean, it attracts various fish from up to a mile away. You have advantage on survival checks to acquire food and the amount of food acquired is triple the normal amount if the lantern is used for this purpose.

>> No.51424422

>>51424281
>>51424412
These are really good. I might try and use them in a seafaring campaign if I can.

>> No.51424429

>>51424397
The second wis came from casting the spell Green-flame blade / Booming blade.

>> No.51424440

In SKT, in Zephyros's tower, there is Navigation Orb, which, if destroyed, can strand the tower. But I can't find AC or health for it in those pages, or in appendix B. No details on how to rule whether it gets destroyed or not.

Am I just overlooking something?

>> No.51424504

>>51424412
>Grasp of the Sea
>Gloves (Attunement)
>This pair of four fingered gloves is made from the remains of a large, tentacled sea beast.
>While wearing these gloves you can't be disarmed.
>You have advantage on Athletics checks involving climbing or grappling.
>If you make an unarmed attack, you deal an additional 1d4 bludgeoning damage on a hit, and may attempt to grapple as a bonus action.

Not as sure on this one, but its where my mind went.

>> No.51424555

>>51424504
>>51424412
Solid ideas anon. I should get in touch with you.

They wont be doing many survival checks, they have enough supplies, but i do want rhem to get shipwrecked at some point when they are following the map.

>> No.51424563

>>51423548
Maybe Theurge with the nature domain would work?

>> No.51424564

>>51424374

Christ dude.

Monk's entire point is to be the best unarmed fighter. That's why. Holy shit.

>> No.51424573

>>51423893
It does not say six to eight combats, it says six to eight encounters.

>> No.51424578

Planning on running a warlock with a fiend patron and a tome pact with heavy emphasis on killing other wizards to loot their ritual spells. I'm snagging mage slayer as a first level feat and then grabbing hold person, hex (obviously), and shillelagh and shocking grasp via the tome pact to make Mage Slayer more effective. Does this anti-mage warlock build sound feasible?

>> No.51424604

>>51424555
At a minimum, its a lantern that doesn't need oil. Not needing fire is always a plus on a boat.

>> No.51424643

>>51424563
Nah. Theurge never have text that change WIS to INT.

>> No.51424648

>>51424604
Point well taken. Shaving small costs off adds up.

>> No.51424651

>>51424564
I don't hate that it's the best unarmed fighter. I hate that it's the ONLY unarmed fighter. I think it's kind of bullshit that the only unarmed fighting class also is forced by RAW to meditate for 30 minutes before it can use its abilities, can heal itself, and can turn invisible.

>> No.51424656

>>51424578
Beware of 8INT 19 STR wizard.

>> No.51424872

>>51424248
Cause monks get 3 attacks per turn at lvl 5 and are the best damage dealers among non-casters at lower levels.

It's only after lvl 10 or so when they start falling behind other martials due to no scaling damage boosts (barb), no extra attacks (fighter) , no fighting styles they could use besides maybe dueling and even for that they have to multiclass, no feats that boost their damage output like GWM/Sharpshooter.
And then they even have the SAME Hp like Rogue while unable to pump Con because they need Wis for AC/Ki saves.

I let them have a few goodies as a housrule:
>d10Hp die
>Extra attack 2 at lvl 12
>An extra ASI so they have 6 and can afford a feat

It breaks absolutely nothing and after the playtests it was meant to be like this originally as they stated multiple times.
It's just that someone in WotC seems to hate the class as a whole (despite it being introduced together with paladin and ranger).

>> No.51424893

>>51424304
>Having LESS than 10 AC

>> No.51424913

>>51423269
>>51423291
>>51423332
>>51423318

I got forced into Warlock by my DM, but I'm warming up to it.

I think the problem people have with bladelocks is aggressive minmaxing. I like it for the flavour - not the edginess, just because my character got imprisoned at one point, and it would have been helpful to have a weapon. Makes sense that he'd go that way, especially with a Rogue/Swashbuckler dip.

>> No.51424916

>>51424144
Cute and stolen for my ocean campaign

>> No.51424929

>>51424872
I would never understand the hate boner towards the monks, the retards who hate the class can fuck right off into a wall.

>> No.51424961

>>51424913
Forced into Warlock? Was it a story reason or...?

>> No.51424962

>>51424248
Look, if I were DMing, I'd allow you to make a 6 dex 6 wis monk if you really wished

I'd also laugh at how that forces you to have 6 AC if you're not wearing armour, and you're penalized for wearing armour.


For people like you otherwise, pugilist exists. I don't honestly think it's all that great but if you really want someone who uses strength and punches (Very little difference to a monk using dexterity and punching) then .. That's the only reason pugilist exists.

But, honestly, 5e is supposed to make sense and it makes sense that strong people are better off fighting with WEAPONS than punching everything.

You could also play a suboptimal barbarain or a shield+fist barbarian who grapples with his free hand and punches the shit out of people.

>> No.51424969

>>51424651
Make an Unarmed fighting style then.

>Brawler

While not wearing a shield your unarmed strikes deal 1d4 damage (use either Str or Dex for attack and damage rolls).
At lvl 6 you gain an additional +1 bonus to damage rolls with unarmed strikes and when someone moves through a space within 5ft of you without using the disengage action you may use your reaction to hit them with an unarmed strike and halve their movement speed.

>> No.51424979

>>51424929
The monk honestly is good fun in fifth edition.

>> No.51424990

>>51423901
>mystic
I was honestly hoping it would be mid feb it drops after the wizard.

>> No.51425015

>>51424872
>best damage of the non-casters
At the lowest levels, a GWM fighter, crossbow rogue, PAM paladin and berzerker or PAM or GWM barbarian can outdamage monk. Those all require feats, but why wouldn't you want feats? That said, a monk with 18 or 20 dex might be able to outdamage most of the above.

At level 5, monk mostly falls further behind compared to the GWM 2d6 user guys above, but the others they're still fairly on-par with. They get stunning strike, however.

While I say that, they're not bad damage dealers. They're just certainly not the best. It won't be denied however they have their place once you start to consider stunning strike and open hand knocking people around.

I don't really feel they need an extra attack in the later levels (Seriously, that's fighter's unique ability), but they are certainly squishy (squishier than rogue, and rogues can fight at range). Maybe some smaller later level feature would be good rather than an entire extra attack, not sure what though.

>>51424929
Monks are by far the easiest class to make a bad fucking monk in if you don't know what you're doing because of how stat dependent they are.

>> No.51425032

>>51423893
It's what a party can handle, not what they have to. It also disagrees with the tables, which would say 6 to 8 easy to medium encounters. In this case I'd go with the table for having more weight and revise it to a somewhat lower number of medium to hard encounters. 3 to 7.

>> No.51425036

>>51421530
Agreedo.

>> No.51425044

Arcana Cleric 1 (for magic missile)
Twilight Druid 17 (for Harvest's Scythe dice)
Fighter 2 (for Action Surge)

Cast a 9th-level magic missile, spending 8 Harvest's Scythe dice:
1d4+1+8d10 damage per missile, 11 missiles = 522.5 average damage

Action Surge, cast an 8th-level magic missile, spending another 8 Harvest's Scythe dice:
1d4+1+8d10 damage per missile, 10 missiles = 475 average damage

522.5 + 475 = 997.5 average damage, no attack or save.

>> No.51425046

>>51423940
It's only when you're in an adventure. It's not every day of your lives. Why else would there be downtime rules and it takes two or three long rests to recover all your hit dice.

>> No.51425052

>>51425044
Why not just take Magic Initiate?

>> No.51425057

>>51425052
If Magic Initiate isn't for a class you already have, you can't cast the spell with a higher-level slot, only once per long rest.

>> No.51425070

>>51425044
If only they didn't specifically talk about how UAs aren't tuned for multiclass.

>> No.51425074

>>51423291
I have a friend who thinks bladelock is the most OP shit.

>> No.51425080

>>51425044
Also the Damage wouldn't be applied to each missile.

>> No.51425081

>>51425070
The problem stems from the wording of Magic Missile, and not from the Twilight druid itself.

>> No.51425089

i dont understand

>> No.51425090

>>51425044
Don't forget a grave cleric.

>>51425080
We've heard this a thousand times without anything to disprove otherwise.

Harvest's scythe adds damage like invocation wizard does, and invocation wizards can get up to +5 to every magic missile.

>> No.51425093

What kind of people pick Dragonborn?

>> No.51425095

I made an attempt at a Theurgist fix today.

>Divine Inspiration
Pick a divine domain from the following:
- Arcana
- Knowledge
- Light

>Divine Initiate
You learn the Thaumaturgy cantrip, and one other Cleric cantrip of your choice, as Wizard cantrips. Additionally, whenever you gain a wizard level, you can choose to replace one of the Wizard spells you add to your spellbook with a Cleric domain spell for your chosen domain. The spell must be of a level for which you have spell slots. Spells learned this way are Wizard spells for you.
These are spells granted to you from your dedication to your faith, in the form of prayers you have recorded and studied intensely. As such, other wizards who are not of the school of theurgy cannot copy these cleric spells from your spellbook into their own

>Channel Arcana
Left the same.

>Channel Arcana: Divine Arcana
As a bonus action, you speak a prayer to control the flow of magic around you. This effect can manifest in one of two ways. If the next spell you cast requires an attack roll, you may gain advantage on that roll. If the next spell you cast requires the target or targets make a saving throw, you may make those targets gain disadvantage on that roll.

>Arcane Acolyte
At 6th level, you gain your chosen domain's 1st level benefits. However, you do not gain any armor proficiencies from your domain.

Left as is.

>Arcane Priest
At 10th level, you gain your chosen domain's 6th level benefits. Your faith and your understanding of magic allow you to delve into your god's secrets.

Left Alone

>Divine Intervention:
You may add your Wisdom modifier in addition to your regular Intelligence modifier to the attack rolls and spell save DCs of spells you cast. In addition, if any spell allows you to add your Intelligence modifier to the damage roll, you may add your wisdom modifier as well.

Pretty major changes

>> No.51425099

>>51425090
>>51425080
>invocation
Evocation, I meant.

Evocation adds +5 to one damage roll.

Twilight druird adds Xd10 to one damage roll.

>> No.51425104

>>51425093
Dragon obsessed autists, and new players who think they sound neat.

>> No.51425120

>>51425093
People who are new to 5e.

>> No.51425121

>>51425093
>>51425104
And normalfags who really liked Skyrim.

>> No.51425127

>>51425104
>>51425120
>new players who think they sound neat

God fucking damn it, right into the stereotype

>> No.51425136

>>51425127
Never let them smother your starshine, anon.

>> No.51425174

>>51425127
Stereotype it may be, but it's based in truth.

There is a third type that play Dragonborn, and that's women engaging in power fantasy who don't want to be burly little ladydwarves or Musclegirl Half-Orcs.

>> No.51425180

>>51424979
I agree.
I personally don't like the class as much as I like rangers for example but there's a certain appeal to this "muscle wizard" class.
Ranger already got their buff in the UA .
Now I think it's the turn for monk and sorcerer to get their fix.

What Sorcerer should get:
>d8 Hp die
>one lvl 1 spell they can cast as a cantrip (at its lowest level) - this should be a lvl 6-9 feature
>at lvl 17 or 18 two metamagic options that only cost one sorcery point are free of their sorcery point cost.
>Maybe throw in a free proficiency with either Persuasion or Intimidation into the mix and let it carry over into multuclassing.

What monk should get:
>d10 Hp die
>using their reaction to execute an unarmed strike or FOB on a non-disengaging target moving within 5ft of them
>Some concentration based ki ability that boosts their damage for a 1d10 once per round. Make it cost 3 ki and let it be a part of the "Ki enhanced strikes feature" that currently lets them overcome the "non-magic weapon resistance" with their unarmed strikes.

>> No.51425188

No other class is going to get a revision, not until they're ready to move on to some sort of full game revision. Ranger only got a revision because of how shit-awful people rated it in surveys, and rightfully so.

>> No.51425192

>>51425174
Yeah, except Dragonborn aren't pic-related, they're even fuglier than the stuff you listed.

>> No.51425203

>>51425180
>>one lvl 1 spell they can cast as a cantrip (at its lowest level) - this should be a lvl 6-9 feature
Make it their level 5 mechanical damage buff feature and it wouldn't be terrible.
Personally though, i liked the idea from yesterday
>spell points
>all metamagic available
>level 7,8,9 spells you choose one of each at the appropriate level, 0 points to cast, once per day each

>> No.51425208

Has anyone used the UA Sharpshooter archetype for fighter?

Im thinking of making a crossbowman with it, and im not sure if I should just stick with Battle Master.

Or to switch entirely and go with a glaive and go polearm focused.

>> No.51425210

>>51425208
Battle Master with the sharpshooter feat will probably be more fun.

>> No.51425214

>>51425188
You're right, Ranger was near on worthless compared to everyone else. It had nothing where it could out do every other class, even in survival their powers weren't all that great.

Monk and Sorcerer are most likely the next weakest but they still have moments where they shine. Ranger needed the fix.

>> No.51425215

>>51425208
Sharpshooter is really just for games without feats, otherwise just taking the same name feat is just as good.

>> No.51425235

>>51425208
A gave it a look for the first time and I've gotta say I'm impressed. I'm not normally a fan of the blander archtypes (Champion, Hunter, Thief and etc) but this seems decent.

I'm very tempted to make the fastest dart thrower in the West out of it.

>> No.51425261

>>51425174
>think about it
>wife last played a Dragonborn barbarian
>after her Orc fighter
>after her Gnoll Str Monk
>after her extremely burly human paladin

Your statement is true.

>> No.51425268

>>51425093

People who min/max poorly. I can't think of a single class where they're the best pick, thanks to that shitty breath weapon.

>> No.51425272

>>51424961
Yeah, my character got sacrificed to Vhaeraun and I made a deal to serve him if I could live again. DM said I had to take my next level in Warlock (GOO).

The whole thing was a bit bullshitty, I was trying to make a magic mirror betray its owner and the next game day I was magicked away, tortured, then sacrificed, without anyone being able to do anything about it.

I only got to resurrect my character at all because the DM sensed people weren't very happy with how it turned out.

>> No.51425279

>>51425180
>>51425203

I think the easiest fix would just be to give them more spell slots. It's the strangest thing that they have the exact same number of slots as a wizard, they should have more to compensate for having lesser spells known. Like how warlocks know very few tricks but can use them at-will.

>> No.51425291

>>51425208

If it's a Fighter, you should either gish or play Battlemaster. Every other option is dull as shit.

>> No.51425292

>>51425268
Surely they'd be fine as fighters.

>> No.51425296

>>51425268
>It's a min/maxing is the proper way to play the game post

Dragonborn do make good Paladins tho

>> No.51425297

>>51425279
You have to redesign their features, at least slightly, in order to do that.
The Spellcasting feature means something very specific, which is why it works at all with multiclassing.

>> No.51425299

>>51425268
What about Barbarians?

>> No.51425308

>>51425296
Travis is the best player period, despite 0 experience. When he got petrified was fucking fantastic.

>> No.51425313

>>51425291
Well I was thinking of playing a paladin, but the campaign is starting around 10, so getting bulk extra attacks might actually be feasible in this campaign.

>> No.51425321

>>51425292
>>51425296

They're not the best pick in either area. Fighters don't need Cha so you're better off with a Half-Orc or variant Human, and Paladin is better with Half-Elf because you get all your important stat boosts still while also getting more skills and languages to face with.

>>51425299

Again, Horc is better.

>> No.51425331

>>51425180
>one lvl 1 spell they can cast as a cantrip (at its lowest level) - this should be a lvl 6-9 feature

That's about the point a cantrip starts approaching a level 1 spell in power; so it'd be good for utility (shield!.... wait, shield is not on sorc list, is it?) but for bursty sorcerers it'd be eh.

>> No.51425335

>>51425308
>Yesterday's episode
>That yelling when Scanlan Died

>> No.51425348

players traversed their way on a surefire path up a mountain. it was dangerous but they made it. they did what they needed to do their last session and ended it in a cave near the top. now they need to head back down and plan on taking the same path.

seems like it'd be boring for them to run them through the same environmental hazards again. expedite this process? is that the best method? should i subvert expectations and have a landslide occur? a blizzard, icing the path and making it tougher?

what would you do? im fairly new to DMing so this is the first issue of "backtracking" that i've dealt with.

>> No.51425361

>>51425348
What was the weather like as they hiked? Were there any big crashes and loud noises in the cave?

>> No.51425367

>>51425361
pretty calm, weather wise. they did meet a metallic dragon on their way up that made them amuse him to pass through.

the cave contained a medusa and her gargoyle pets which they killed, so all i quiet on that front.

>> No.51425376

>>51425335
Didn't Scanlan die in episode 80, though? They're on episode 82 now, on their site.

>> No.51425378

>>51425367
>>51425348
Do broader rolls for whether they fall prey to anything, rather than the specific issues they encountered before. Pick out your personal favourite challenges and pose them in a new way.

>> No.51425380

>>51425321
>Paladin is better with Half-Elf
I dunno. A really strong area attack from level 1 (something paladins don't normally get until ridiculously late) and 24/7 resistance to a single damage type are both great features.

>> No.51425386

Actually now I'm curious. Assuming my DM was cool and is letting me draw as many darts as I want, what's the maximum I could throw in a turn?

>> No.51425393

>>51425380
>A really strong area attack from level 1
>really stong
riiight....

>> No.51425395

>>51425376
Died again.

>> No.51425399

>>51425376
Episode 83 aired less than 12 hours ago

>> No.51425400

>>51425395
What the fuck? Timestamp?

is he actually dead this time or was he revived again

>> No.51425404

>>51425380

The damage resistance is the only good feature there, and only if it comes up. Meanwhile, skills are great pretty much all the time.

>> No.51425407

>>51425400
They ended the episode at the Raven Queen altar in Whitestone. Didn't have time to attempt Resurrection.

>> No.51425412

>>51425400
It failed, so they are trying the new last resort mechanic mercer decided on.

Travis was brilliant, he got pissed they 'wouldn't' bring him back, but you could tell the others wanted weapy so he stopped.

>> No.51425416

>>51425180
>increasing their hitdice

Eeh, nah.
That's rounding out their weaknesses, which is boring. Instead, more things like the >cast a level 1 spell at-will
Except you can probably bet it'd be 'shield' or something. So..

I still think the 'evolving spell line' idea works well for sorcerer. It covers the lack of spells for different dragon types, it covers the lack of spells known in a way that doesn't make them like wizards, it's flavourful (You can cast something similar to fireball, you can also cast simple fire spells weaker than fireball as you need)

And I don't really feel extra proficiencies are going to help.

Sorcerer 'create your own spell' factory when
>start with hardly any points, X
>costs Y points to turn it into an AoE, then Z points to continue to increase the AoE's size
>costs A points to double its range
>costs B points to increase damage
>you get C points for every spell level you increase the spell by
>choose from a simple free effect like 'sets stuff on fire'
>D points to choose from a more useful effect
So forth. Or, I don't know, make it more like the gunsmith's attacks and then their spells are extra.

>> No.51425426

>>51425296
>Paladin
>anything but variant human (PAM) or half-elf
I shiggy
diggy
doo

>> No.51425430

So my buddy's invited me to his game that he wants to first time GM, and I think he's running LMoP?

What's a good origin city for a character from around there? She'll be a cloistered sister, so she'll kind of be from two places, I guess? An origin city and then somewhere a chapel or monastery of Mystra or Azuth or like just a pantheon or whatever.

I've never played in a FR setting before.

Which city has more... like... middling human nobles or merchants?

>> No.51425431

>>51425412
That sounds pretty good. I'll check it out.

Here's hoping its not 3 hours into this 4 hour episode.

>> No.51425444

>>51425426
Or actually include fallen aasimar with that.

>> No.51425456

>>51425431
>Here's hoping its not 3 hours into this 4 hour episode.
It is. They basically spend 3 hours fighting Raishan and then the last hour crying
Good ep though.

>> No.51425459

So what's a good slut class?

>> No.51425501

>>51425459
Fluid Druid.

>> No.51425510

>>51425331
It's mainly meant for utility and yes shield is on the Sorcerrers spell list.
So maybe limit it to spells targeting ones self and enemies to prevent players from quickening/twinning shields on the whole party.

Burning Hands, Charm Person, Chromatic Orb, Color Spray, Comprehend Languages, Detect Magic, Disguise Seif, Expeditious Retreat, False Life, Feather Fall, Fog Cloud, Jump, Mage Armor, Magic Missile, Ray of Sickness, Shield, Silent Image, Sleep, Thunderwave and Witch Bolt sound pretty damn fine as spells-turned into cantrips.

>> No.51425513

>>51425459
Druid for furries (Fuck as an animal)
Paladin for street whores (Immune to STDs)
Wizard for not-sluts mindfuckers (Fool people into thinking they're having sex)
Rogue for mundane sex (Great sex checks)
Bard for a bit of wizard and bit of rogue. (Jack of all trades, mindfuck magic, expertise, charisma and dex)
Barbarian for absolute rough fucking.
Monk for attacking the weak points (and stunningly good sex tampered with wisdom)
Fighter if you want to break time and have sex twice in one round and also more sex feats (Action surge)
Warlock if you're a succubus whore (Alter self at-will, dsguise self, good charisma and various things such as magical utility)
Artificer if you're into toys (Magic items and such)
Cleric if you want divine appointment by the god of sex (Divine domain: Sex)
Sorcerer if your partner is a dragon (charisma and expertise for dragons)
Ranger if you want an ape friend for a gangbang. (Animal companion)

There is no best. D&D is designed so everybody is good at something.
The game was designed with porn in mind.

>> No.51425538

>>51425510
Witch Bolt is useless for it anon. And always useless. Just stop.

>> No.51425551

>>51425538
It's the only long range lightning spell for Blue dragon sorcerrer.
Kinda sad isn't it?

>> No.51425570

>>51425551
FUCKING CHROMATIC ORB DUMBASS
IT DOESN'T CONSUME THE DIAMOND

>> No.51425591

>>51425551
Chromatic orb
Lightning Bolt
Lightning Arrow
Call Ligthning
Chain Lightning
Lightning Lure

>> No.51425599

>>51425570
>not wanting an at-will 1d12 lightning damage attack that requires concentration and automatically hits after the first attack if your first attack hit but you lose concentration if you leave line of sight or use your action to do anything actually fun

>not wanting an at-will spell that is, at times, worse than a 1-4 firebolt and otherwise worse than a level 5-10 firebolt

>> No.51425603

>>51425570
>>51425591
Only Chromatic orb meets the criteria of being a low level spell and even then it's kinda the ''mimic this damage type'' spell.

I wish they made a fucking expanded spell list already to cover all types similar to EE.

>> No.51425613

Playing a Warlock, is it better to cross into Fighter or Paladin? Paladin seems the best one since you can cast Smite with the warlock spells and get them back after a short rest, but a lot of people suggest taking fighter and i'm not exactly sure why. Going Bladelock, and yes I know, but I want to be Trunks from DBZ.

>> No.51425615

>>51425603
Criteria you never listed in your original post. Quit being butthurt that people actually went out of their way to correct that you were wrong and gave helpful advice.

>> No.51425638

>>51421240

>> No.51425651

>>51423940
In game time 3 years have passed and I've reached level 6 from level 1. Completely reasonable leveling rate if you ask me
>>51424139
>he doesn't have CR 30 BBEG Lich as supreme leader of his own kingdom which is in its entirety considered his lair
>people build nations of intelligent races that can be brought down by a few people with a few years adventuring experience.
Level 1-4 is commoner tier. Level 5-10 is village champion tier. Level 11-16 is national recognition tier. Level 17+ is world wrecker.

At level 11+ you may have a large impact on national politics or a country's situation but international treaties and military force and the kingdom's budget on mercenaries can stop you from being the new king by force.

>> No.51425658

Dear God let sorcerer UA be good.

>> No.51425667

>>51425658
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. No.

>> No.51425679

>>51425613
If you're doing the 2 level dip to start, you want Fighter. Better saves, Action Surge. Getting the 2 extra smites per short rest might seem good, but after that you're still reduced back down to "well eldritch blast would just be a better use of my action"

Where as having the ability to open up a can of whoopass by action surging out both of your slotted spells in a single turn will remain more useful at higher levels.

>> No.51425684

>>51425651
>Level 1-4 is commoner tier
Commoners can teleport and fire lazer beams of fire from their eyeballs?

>> No.51425700

>>51424374
>At level 20 you do 2d4+11 damage per turn
>Meanwhile a monk is doing 4d10 + 5 damage. And has pretty much the only Save-or-Die in the game.
>I just want to Asura's Wrath my way through a campaign. Is that too much to ask?
1d4+11 twice for attack, third time with retaliation, with advantage for reckless attacks. Fourth if you frenzy. So 40.5-54, advantage on demand.

Monk does 1d10+5 twice for an action and twice more with flurry. 42 with advantage less on demand from empty body or stunning.

How much more do you need when you also get more hp and can use a shield

>> No.51425709

>> No.51425737

>>51424139
You don't have to worry, you just need 50 peasants with crossbows, say goodbye to your beloved fighter lul.

>> No.51425739

>>51425709
>Katana first bullet point
Wasn't the majority of nip armor constructed of overlapping Iron plates from the early 1500s onward?

>> No.51425765

>>51424032
>Level 10s being demigods...
Buff your campaign. Special lvl 15-20 NPCs and more dragons and Kingdom super weapons for defense against CR 20+ monsters

Throw the JoJo's Bizarre Adventures pillar men into your story as CR 30 monsters and just have them fuck shit up. Whatever makes sense considering the fact that there are probably more adventurers in the past and present than your party and kingdoms have the financial means to do nearly anything.

>> No.51425766

>>51425679
I guess I just don't see the usefulness of action surge? Wouldn't you get the same out of just attacking twice and using smite on both of those attacks? You're right about the better saves.

>> No.51425779

>>51425700
Adding in frenzy is fairly disingenuous, its a terrible ability of a terrible archetype.
I do agree though, let monks be punchy, we don't need more. Taver Brawler exists for a middle ground, extra option, not a build around.

>> No.51425780

>>51425739
Yes, and the katana is pretty bad against it.

Which is true for most swords, to some degree, especially curved ones.

>> No.51425791

>>51424440
I can't say for sure. Haven't read the book. Maybe it is destroyed if you try to destroy or maybe it just follows the rules for items in the DMG.

>> No.51425793

>>51425780
Wasn't saying it was good against it, just that the expectation would still be there.

>> No.51425797

>>51425651
>Level 1-4 is commoner tier. Level 5-10 is village champion tier. Level 11-16 is national recognition tier. Level 17+ is world wrecker.

Whut... just whut...
I don't even know where to begin.

>> No.51425822

>>51424962
>But, honestly, 5e is supposed to make sense and it makes sense that strong people are better off fighting with WEAPONS than punching everything.

Clearly this is why flyweight boxers punch harder than Mike Tyson did.
Fucking what.

>> No.51425836

>>51425613
>>51425679
Paladin is good if you ditch warlock at level 3/4/5 because you're basically becoming a paladin with shillelagh.

Fighter is good if you want to become a sorlock because you get defences and action surge for even more blasting.

Full warlock.. Is not awfully good, but if you really must then you'll want a single level of fighter for the main purpose of giving you a load of AC. You can also then go two levels into fighter if you want, becaue action surge is pretty nice.

>> No.51425841

>>51425822
STR monks still exist.
It's just that they have shit AC and can't survive because of it.

>> No.51425867

>>51425822
The flyweights are aiming for weakpoints with their uncanny wisdom and dexterity. They don't punch the hardest, but they can stun and outwit opponents and attack with speed.

Once it comes to strength, you're better off just using a fucking weapon, the real reason those boxers box instead of swinging fucking axes at each other is because they're not trying to kill each other.
And with that axe, you do more damage than the monk.

>>51425766
This would be true if you were a full paladin who has plenty of spell slots to smite with.
But you don't, smites are a limited resource and action surge is an additional resource that's extremely flexible given the many number of things you can do with an action. And it's per short rest.

I guess it is a fight between 'two level 1 spell slots every long rest and smite' versus an extra action every short rest, but two level 1 smites a long rest is much, much worse than an entire extra action which you can use after using hex on, say, eldritch blast for 2d20+2d6+10 extra damage at level 5 to 10 with 20 charisma, and only more damage at level 11 and 17 onwards.

>> No.51425901

>>51425766
>Fighter 2/Fiendlock 5
>Fireball twice in one turn

>> No.51425903

>>51425867
So what you are saying is that flyweights have the ability to outright kill someone by "hitting weakpoints"?

Yet the guy who can literally break someones face in a single swing does half the damage?

Firstly, never bring realism into D&D. Secondly, even with having "realism" in mind, that is still beyond retarded.

>> No.51425926

>>51425903
This is DnD.
Monks are individuals who strenghtened theri bodies with magical rituals to turn them into weapons.
They are word for word ''muscle-wizards''.

>> No.51425932

>>51425903
Calm your autism anon, and follow your own advice.

Monks have magic fists.

>> No.51425942

>>51425903
You can knock somebody unconscious just by hitting them on the right place on the neck, or something like that.

You're the one bringing in realism, though, saying that the strength punching guy should do more damage than someone with no strength but hitting careful points.
Once we're not bringing in realism anymore, what's the fucking point of arguing?

A fairy walks up to a guy. She blows in his face. Guy explodes.
Why? I don't know, magic or something, why do we care about realism?

Without realism, there is no argument, there is only what exists in people's imaginations. And sure, some people believe in their imagination that punching things really hard is a good way to do things, but more people believe that hitting things with an axe using that strength rather than using your fists is better. So, by way of majority, weapons were made stronger than punches.

>> No.51425947

>>51425867
But wouldn't the smites be a short rest if you use your Warlock spell slots to cast them?

>> No.51425960

>>51425947
If you're going to do that, burning all your spell slots like that, why not just be a paladin instead?

>> No.51425965

>>51425903
I do martials I am fly weight I do kick boxing matches, I do a combat art so flipino martial arts, I have broken a the arm of a man who was 20 kgs of muscle heavier then me when he attempted a mugging.

>> No.51425969

DM's of /5eg/, who is your main bad guy? What is his motivation? How much do your players want him fucking dead?

Mine is a fallen Paladin named Calden Redwood. He is harvesting souls and feeding them to an otherworldly demigod who promises to bring back his long dead wife and child.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQMCAdMadMY

>> No.51425972

>>51425942
Not that guy, but you rarely use strength when using weapons.
If anything, they're more dexterity-minded than actual punching since you've already got a sharpened mass moving at high velocity.

In comparison, you'll always need to exert a fairly serious amount of energy to achieve any reasonable destructive power with fists, which something like a barbarian that can lift 800lbs would be more than capable of doing.

I don't care about "lulmagicfists", monk can be whatever they want to be, mostly disappointing though.
I am in the camp with the previous anon thinking it's strange that monk is the ONLY fist fighter. PF has the brawler atleast.

>> No.51425975

>>51425960
Because then it'd be a long rest to get them back again?

>> No.51425981

>>51425965
Well, not to be that guy, but attempt that on someone with equal training and you'll not be having much fun.

Weight classes exist for a reason, and that's why you'll never see Conor McGregor against Brock Lesnar or something like that.

>> No.51425987

>>51425667
If it isn't I'm creating expanded spell lists for each origin and just flat out making spells for them to use for their types then.

>> No.51426001

>>51425987
Yeah I love Sorcerer's so much. My first character was one and they sucked ass back then as well.

Shadow Sorcerer's decent because of it's abilities but I'd like something a bit less edgy.

>> No.51426008

Assuming the BBEG is some sort of possessed human, what sort of stats should I give him?

I want him to be able to fight the party when they're at early levels and easily wipe them out, but then run away (for plot reasons), so they get an impression of massive strength, but I want them to be able to work up towards killing him.

What's the best way to stat long-term bosses?

>> No.51426021

>>51425044
Goblin or aasimar race for an extra 20 damage to one of those.

>> No.51426023

>>51425867
Heavy weight boxers also don't evolve into hercules or enkidu by knocking out enough goblins.

>> No.51426036

>>51425972
Well, why is strength even a stat in the first place? Why don't we just bundle it in with constitution for bodily strength?

At least in fantasyland, most people will agree in their imaginations that the guys using GWF and the barbarians and the general 'I'M GOING TO HIT SHIT REALLY HARD' people with mauls and greatswords are going to focus mostly on strength.

And when I see typical unarmed martial artists, I would always say they're more towards wisdom and dexterity than strength. They overcome opponents by outsmarting, outmanoeuvring them, using their own momentum against them, striking at vulnerable points, et cetera.

Boxing sort of stuff sounds more 'nitty gritty reality' than 'fantasyland', and in the first place if we brought those guys into the game they might be more constitution focused or something.

>>51425975
Yes, but the paladin also gets many better features for when they don't have spell slots. The warlock is more of a spellcaster, and once you take away those spells.. You can still do things, you can eldritch blast, but you're not really anything anymore except a shittier paladin that has invocations and will eventually get level 6/7/8/9 spells.

>> No.51426068

You people have some weird ideas about martials. You don't evolve into mike tyson by 15, you start as him. You become peak human potential by 4 and past then you become a hero, doing things of myth.

>> No.51426069

>>51426008
You're trying to script things out way too far in advance. And even if the players stay on your railroad tracks, your railroad tracks make no sense (a villain causing a party wipe but making sure every single PC survives.)

>> No.51426073

>>51425901
Now all your spell slots are gone, GG.

>> No.51426076

>>51426023
>not gold=XP
>not evolving due to CASH MONEY
>not buying your way to victory

>> No.51426089

>>51426036
This is where D&D falls a bit flat on it's face, because it's pulling the "hurrdurr2intelligencebarbarian" hit shit hard from western fantasy, and the "punchshittodeath" from eastern fantasy.

Issue with this is that it's usually the other way around, that if you've got enough strength to swing a large sword, it's better to be dextrous in order to get the most out of swordfighting.

Along with weight classes being around since a 120lbs man would just get slaughtered by someone twice his size, assuming equal training.

Now, disregard any and all realism from that, and you're still stuck with the western vs eastern fantasy. There's nothing that says a barbarian shouldn't be able to uppercut someones head off other than people being hung up on the 40lbs monk elf should be the only one able to do it due to mystical eastern arts.

>> No.51426106

>>51426089
That's because going unarmed for no reason is part of kung-fu movies but not Western fantasy. A barbarian going unarmed by choice is just stupid because that's not a convention of the genre he's in.

>> No.51426127

>>51426089
Technique is 80% of weapon use, dex is pretty much for reaction/defence, str is for grapples and weapon control.

>> No.51426134

>>51426089
But a barbarian CAN uppercut someone's face off with +strength +rage damage and your DM might even give you a conditional bonus if you do it at the right time, though don't expect it to be constant ever.

The downside is that they're usually, almost always better off using their finely crafted and carefully designed, enchanted and empowered weapon of destruction instead of just using their fists.

And barbarians follow three main styles anyway:
1. Maul (Strength), GWM, 'nuff said.
2. Halberd (Strength), good if you've got plenty of feats for PAM and maybe GWM on top of that
3. Shortsword (Dexterity), the best option at lower levels without feats, good for dex barbarian and multiclassed barbarian and entirely viable

So it's somewhat true with shortswords.

But we have to either say we want realism or we don't want realism, and 5e is going more towards realism, honestly, and at that point I think it's probably more realistic to fight with weapons unless you're pressured to improvize some sort of action where your weapon is cast astray or too clunky to hit where you need to hit. But at least it's still fanatasy enough that barbarians are still super muscle dudes who get around by swinging a maul really hard, though there are dex barbarians.

Also if your DM allows sneak attack on unarmed strikes, you can do a punchy strength wrestling barbarogue already.

>> No.51426146

>>51426127
>int is required for days of study on how to use things properly and recalling hwo to do everything
>int becomes god stat
>nobody can get around without being smart
And it's accurate, too.

>> No.51426156

>>51426146
>int
>god stat irl
>not charisma

>> No.51426161

Thinking of going Undying Light Warlock 6/Fighter 14

Get that revive going, cantrips, and smacking power. How terrible is this idea? And what could I do to make it better. I just want to play an anime sword wizard. Warlock seems the best fit for the spontaneous casting, and the revive is always nice.

>> No.51426172

>>51425969
There's no one main bad guy. There are organizations and traditions and political machinations on both sides of an uneasy ceasefire, puppets controlled by men with titles into fighting skirmishes they both claim plausible deniability toward because those who could question them are on their payroll.

If you wanted to end The Big Conflict you'd need to depose not one, but two governments in their entirety, whom have both fed their peasants and noblemen alike a constant feed of propaganda in a pre-information age society where conflicting ideas just do not get very far. You'd have to do this while also not sparking a war between them the moment one realizes you've given them an upper hand by making unrest in the other.

>> No.51426179

>>51426146
I mean, the less you abstract, the harder the game is to run.
Reach is the most important factor after technique, so con for height/reach.
Every attack is from a list of tech based on int, the opponent defends depending on positioning and their own technique...
And it isn't d&d

>> No.51426193

>>51426134
>and 5e is going more towards realism
>still argues that monks should be the only fist-murderer because mystical magic

I mean.. if you're going to lobby something, atleast choose something that doesn't contradict what you've been saying thus far?

>Also if your DM allows sneak attack on unarmed strikes, you can do a punchy strength wrestling barbarogue already.
No DM with half a brain would allow that, because that just means that you'd see a retarded Shadowmonk/assassination rogue build.

Since you are however lobbying for more realism, a barbarian should be more adept at actually punching people to death than a monk.

>>51426106
>what is Heracles

>>51426127
Technique falls entirely under dex in D&D. Otherwise fighters and barbarians could never wield weapons since most of them are at +1 or maybe +2 dex mod.

>> No.51426195

>>51426106
>beowulf
I agree with you but there still exist exceptions which say that the unarmed barbarian should still be more than able to kill shit. Perhaps not as well as armed, especially if he trained all his life for armed combat, but he should still be plenty functional rather than 1+X Str

>> No.51426211

>>51426161
It's an okay idea, you get heavy armor+One of the best cantrips in the game+ritual utiltity/ultimate familiar utility
The only major issue I can see if the overlapping of eldritch blast with fighter, because 3 melee attacks is nice but 4 blasts are better.
You might want to do 14 paladin for slightly better stacking together because both use charisma and you'll get auras of protection and shit.
If you go EK fighter then you can do the wonderful thing of giving people disadvantage on saves so then you can use save or sucks to fuck the person over super good.

>> No.51426215

>>51426193
>>what is Heracles
Lets be real here
Hercules is the level 20+ pugilist/barbarian
He ain't the standard for level 1-10

>> No.51426220

>>51426161
So, what, pact of the tome, PAM, quarterstaff, go fighter to beat shit up with charisma/force of will?

It's servicable, though I'd only get more than 3 warlock levels after you've gotten 11 levels in fighter for war magic from EK.

I don't think the revive ability is worth 3 levels until you've nothing much better to do (you already have extra attack 2). Which means you only get it at a late level.

Or you capitalize on having good GFB attacks, avoid PAM but still get shillelagh, aim for 7 levels of fighter for war magic then take 6 levels of warlock. Actually, that sounds much better.

Fighter7/Warlock3 for the base build and then doing whatever the heck after that.

>> No.51426225

What would the IRL equivalent of a character with 20 Strength be? 20 Agility? and so on

>> No.51426228

>>51426156
>implying black people don't have a higher charisma stat but lower intellect stat
>look at where they are now

>> No.51426230

>>51426215
Doesn't change the fact that he is indeed not a monk and still punches shit to death, and is also western fantasy/mythology.

>> No.51426255

>>51423104
>go on /xivg/ after the patch to ask a question
>the entire thread is avatarfags and anonymous persons referring to each other by weird-ass pet names
>demanding screenshots of cat butts and wondering who the most "ebin" ERP sluts are
>see like three other posts asking game-related questions
>all of it drowned by the constant deluge of faggots who can somehow recognize each others' posts by attached image, typing style, or telling each other who they are on a Discord server
absolutely terrible

>> No.51426264

>>51426193
Shadowmonk/assassin is already possible because monk makes at least two weapon attacks that are just as strong as their punch attacks before their bonus attack.

You're basically saying
>if your DM really hates fun, you can't play the character you want, so let's fucking homebrew something because that will definitely work


Also
>and outlands hunter who hunts to survive, pushes their body and trains it to the limit their entire life and also being good at getting really angry should be better at punching than someone who studies unarmed combat with other people their entire life from birth

Either they're both on equal grounds, or the more learned one should be better. Barbarians are not trained in unarmed combat to the same extents monks are, it's more of a hobby-tier thing for them I'd say.

>> No.51426274

>>51424139
>>Implying that game doesn't need to change for level 10+ characters when they could literally bring down entire nations on their own based on the typical strength of mortal NPCs (spoiler, most of them are weaker than level 1 players).
lemme tell you about action economy and what happens when your dumb level 10 ass charges a peasant mob that just throws rocks every round

>> No.51426285

>>51426264
>>51426193
Adding to that...
Well, okay, you're probably not saying to homebrew stuff but that the system in the first place should have had more bloat that made people question whether they should use weapons when everybody can just punch everything to death.

More importantly, I don't see any reason why you wouldn't allow a barbarian to sneak attack with their fists, because it doesn't break anything, it merely encourages more dynamic combat with grappling and shoving and barbarogue shenanigans. If you don't want that, don't allow multiclassing at all. Heck, don't even allow feats or martial classes.

>> No.51426287

>>51426230
I'd say you're gonna need more than 1 example to convince me.
You got hercules and Beowulf but I can't think of any other western heroes or mythological characters who fought notably just by punching, even if they could

>> No.51426293

>7 kinds of fighter
>only 2 kinds of druid

WotC pls

>> No.51426302

>>51426274
Yeah, even if there are a lot of people the players could kill with guerilla warfare there's one born every minute, huh.

Inevitably there's going to be higher level people in the nation (Champions, wizards, etc) that can easily stop a party of level 10+ players even if they do resort to cowardly tactics.

>>51426293
Druid UA is a thing.

>> No.51426305

>>51426285
>barbarian to sneak attack with their fists, because it doesn't break anything
It does break shit, because that would mean that it would also allow monks to sneak attack with fists, which is a terrible fucking idea.

Not the guy you're quoting but there's a fucking reason why they've specifically stated that monk fists are not eligible to be used for sneak attacks.

>> No.51426311

>>51426228
Open a newspaper and tell us if you think a low INT is a barrier to anything now.

>> No.51426343

>>51426305
The only thing "busted" about Monk Sneaks is that they can attempt to land a hit twice with their Attack, and once or twice again with their bonus or Flurry-bonus.

So disallow Sneak Attacks made through bonus actions or Flurry of Blows and you're fine.

>> No.51426353

>>51426311
Celebrities are famous, but the less intelligent ones all get fucked over in some way.

A poor person winning the lottery can often go bankrupt due to how inherently bad with money they were in the first place.

Some celebrities go bankrupt after their initial fame, too.

>>51426305
Why do you think a monk couldn't just attack with shortswords if they wanted sneak attack?
Why do you insist that punching is somehow gamebreakingly more powerful than the monk just hitting something with a weapon, which they can and will do?
The only difference is the monk would have a third chance of getting a sneak attack with their bonus action, when they've already had two chances. Or, maybe, at high levels monks might be able to do 1d10 damage and sneak attack! Except they'll have taken so many monk levels their sneak attack will be piddly.

>> No.51426358

>>51426343
It's entirely invalidating rogues since you'll have a full damage martial that can also sneak attack.

Along with a 2 or 3 level dip in Bard and you'll also get the double proficiency that rogues get, so that makes an entire class useless.

>> No.51426368

>>51426287
I mean, there's a few in here.

>> No.51426369

>>51426069
Not that far in advance.
>campaign begins with party all kidnapped by a cult along with some other peasants
>cult performs some sacrifices and a ritual to summon an ancient demon to bolster their own power
>demon possesses one of the peasants and everything goes wrong, wipes out most of the cultists
>party only have to fight 1-2 cultists max but strong potential they'll take on the demon on the way out
>demon possession should be ridiculously strong but not especially interested in fighting them, more interested in getting away
>plot hook suggests they might try to track it down in order to prevent it killing everything

Just need some stats to make that work. They don't have to follow the demon, I just want it to make good sense if they do. I'll have other potential plots and the like available too, I just enjoy planning things out so all of my improv is backed up by resources.

>> No.51426386

>>51426353
>Let me just entirely ignore that WotC has specifically stated that monks shouldn't get sneak attack on their fists
>Why?
>because muh class identity shouldn't exist, everyone should get sneak attack on everything

shiggitydiggitydoodlenoodlefgt

>> No.51426391

>>51426358
I'm not scrolling up to read the start of this argument to see if someone is discussing UA where Monks just get Sneak Attack progression for free,

but literally how is your complaint different from any other "full damage martial" that goes with a Dex build and takes Rogue levels? How is a Monk/Rogue more busted than a Fighter/Rogue if you disallow bonus attack sneaks?

You are giving up ki and martial arts progression every time you take a Rogue level to get maybe some more damage every round if conditions are right.

>> No.51426400

>>51426386
Unless it's a bugbear monk.

>> No.51426417

>>51426369
>>demon possession should be ridiculously strong but not especially interested in fighting them, more interested in getting away
I've seen this posted here multiple times, is this a trope or are you just the same person

>> No.51426423

>>51426386
Where did they say that?
They might well be wrong, the only evidence you're giving is 'WOTC said so', and WOTC is full of shit like
>Feats are optional
and
>Wish lets you cast spells without their cost components

They did specifically state however that they didn't allow 'sneak attack on any dex-based attack' instead of 'finesse weapons' because they were afraid of future synergies from UAs and such (or if people found out things like PAM + Monk1 + Rogue). And I can understand that somewhat, but I don't see where they said and a sufficient reason why they aren't allowing unarmed strikes to sneak attack, ESPECIALLY ones that only deal 1 damage base.

>> No.51426427

>>51426400
Sure, that's restrictive as shit anyway to the point where you'll almost never see it come into play.

>>51426391
Where the fuck have I stated anything about being busted?
WotC specifically stated that monk fists cannot qualify for sneak attack. The only thing I pointed out that was "busted" is the fact that you're outright ignoring a ruling.

I mean shit, while you're at it, why not allow double int modifier to spells for wizards since you're keen on ignoring the limitations of 5e.

>> No.51426435

>>51426423
>They might well be wrong
>the CREATORS of the entire SYSTEM is WRONG
shooggodygoggodydiggelydidgeridoo

>> No.51426477

>>51426435
I've already shown I'm willing to admit I'm wrong if you can show me where they've actually made a good point other than, say, someone other than the rulesmaster saying
>lol I guess it'd be broken if monks could sneak attack with their fists, not that I've put any thought into it at all

We've proven the creators wrong time and time again. They're not perfect, and they fuck up literally all the time. I mean, even the team leader or whoever you call him has actually gotten rules wrong before such as thinking you roll multiple dice for magic missile.

>> No.51426500

Is Ranger the shittiest class?

>> No.51426502

>>51426423
>a sufficient reason why they aren't allowing unarmed strikes to sneak attack, ESPECIALLY ones that only deal 1 damage base.
You don't need a sufficient reason other than that they ruled it that way.

>Does the Martial Arts feature turn monk weapons and unarmed strikes into finesse weapons?
>Nope. The feature grants a benefit that is similar to the finesse property, but the feature doesn’t confer that property. It would say so if it did.

Hence monks can't sneak attack at all, since they ruled it that way. And since fists in general isn't finessable either, you cannot sneak attack with them. End of story.

>> No.51426503

>>51426477
In which areas did Wizards go wrong?

>> No.51426504

>>51425981
Oh I agree by apparently I hit harder then most males my weight division so maybe I'm just weird.

>> No.51426507

my players really want high fantasy, are kind of murder hobos.. ( im trying to corral them into not chaos gods) they are however only level 5 and are getting into the RP, I decided to let some chaos run rampant since they get bored sometimes. I'm a new DM so I probably suck.

only two of these exist, and it was a crafting fluke since I have a PC who does shrooms, and these are special.

>> No.51426514

>>51426504
>Oh I agree but apparently I hit harder then most males in my weight division so maybe I'm just weird (I do train a fuck ton however).
>Sorry posting from my phone

>> No.51426516

>>51426477
>We've proven the creators wrong time and time again
To reiterate.
>the CREATORS of the entire SYSTEM is WRONG
shaggidelicydiggelidugadangdiddlydetrimentaldidgeridoo

>> No.51426517

>>51426417
Just a trope that I like. I was starting with them getting captured as a way to meet, and it expanded from there.

Haven't posted it before.

>> No.51426546

>>51426500
Pretty much. Hunter is a worse rogue and Beastmaster is just... shit.

>> No.51426562

>>51426503
They do it repeatedly on UAs and there are some initial mistakes, but there are still some they've yet to address.

>release kensei
>oh fucking wait kensei stops you from using monk features, lol didn't notice it

>release twilight druid
>oh lol it allows you to one-shot everything, w-well it's not like we prepared it for multiclass

>the familiar can take the help action is RAI

>all the typos they've had to fix such as destructive smite

>netfighting

>speaking of netfighting, the entirety of 'melee weapon attack', 'ranged attack' and all that is an incomprehensible mess when you add in improvized weapon rules where you can make a melee attack with a ranged weapon in

>they fucking nerfed WOT4E monks after releasing it

>>51426516
Yes, the creators of the entire system are wrong.
Go back to kissing and worshiping your false idol 'perfect gods', but the creators of the game are indeed not perfect and have the potential to get things wrong.

And can you just fucking link me where they commented on fists and sneak attacks already so this doesn't turn into a
>shiggy
>no you diggy
>I doogy
>doo
>fuck you
>fuckity doo you too
and we can actually make some process on agreeing whether or not it should be allowed, for I still see no reason it shouldn't be.

>> No.51426583

>>51426562
>nerfed Wot4E monks

I'm still mad. Water Whip wasn't even OP. It was just "good", and Monks desperately needed options other than Stunning Strike.

>> No.51426596

>>51426562
See >>51426502
It literally takes half a second to google it, but you're apparently too busy being deliberately ignorant to somehow promote your homeruling.
As such, I will grant you knowledge so you can cease being a fucking ignoramus.
http://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/SA_Compendium.pdf

Shiggidyfuckinggiggidydidgeridoodledunkingdamdastardlydecievingdankdaggerduckdick.

>> No.51426599

>>51426596
In case you also do not understand that, it means that unarmed strikes by RAW aren't finessable, hence they will never be able to sneak attack.

>> No.51426607

>tfw classic party for your group used to be fighter cleric wizard thief across the editions
>standard party now is Paladin Wizard Warlock Cleric every fucking time

>> No.51426619

>>51426599
Unless you're a bugbear.

>> No.51426632

>>51426596
You're still not helping. Which part are you quoting?
If it's
"Can a rogue/monk use Sneak Attack with unarmed strikes? The Sneak Attack feature works with a weapon that has the finesse or ranged property. An unarmed strike isn’t a weapon, so it doesn’t qualify. In contrast, a rogue/monk can use Sneak Attack with a monk weapon, such as a shortsword"

Then that doesn't back up your statements at all. They literally just stated RAW. It enforces it as RAI, but that doesn't mean they're saying it would break anything to allow unarmed strikes to sneak attack. They don't provide any reasons why, they just state the fucking RAW.

Fortunately, I happen to know that they said the reason it's finesse weapons and not 'any dex attack' is because they're worried about players finding broken combos in the future, especially with UA releases. The way they said it implies that they didn't know of any broken combinations at the time, thus meaning they didn't think monk+rogue fist sneak attacking was broken.

Of course, you might actually be referring to something else, in which case please kindly point it out.

>> No.51426652

>>51426632
Actually, give me a second, I'm not actually quite sure where they said what I'm saying there that the intention was to avoid broken things in the future, and I remember them saying it, but I'm not finding it on google immediately.

Might've been on a rules clarification article.

>> No.51426666

>>51426500
UA ranger really shines low levels.
At 11 though it starts to get a little weird.
Hunter for example becomes an AOE expert where the bowman clearly outpaces the Melee because of the difference between the two.

>> No.51426685

Would a cleaver follow the stats of a hand axe or a sickle?

>> No.51426686

>>51426632
>Which part are you quoting?

>DOES THE MARTIAL ARTS FEATURE TURN MONK WEAPONS AND UNARMED STRIKES INTO FINESSE WEAPONS?
>NOPE. THE FEATURE GRANTS A BENEFIT THAT IS SIMILAR TO THE FINESSE PROPERTY, BUT THE FEATURE DOESN'T CONFER THAT PROPERTY. IT WOULD SAY SO IF IT DID.

tl;dr, fist weapons do not by RAW work as finessable weapons, since the monk feature doesn't change it INTO finessable weapons.
Not sure how you're not getting this after it's been posted 3 times already.

>> No.51426691

>>51426666
>Hunter for example becomes an AOE expert where the bowman clearly outpaces the Melee because of the difference between the two.
as it should ranger has always been awesome bowman first dex based melee second

>> No.51426703

>>51426562
Hate to break it to you but the UAs are specifically playtest material, which they have the surveys for people to provide feedback and for them to polish their material.

>> No.51426704

>>51426691
>Aragorn is a bowman

kill yourself

>> No.51426728

>>51426686
We all know that it's not RAW allfuckingready.

What you've just stated is hardly any different to the one I stated - 'No, this doesn't work by RAW'.

Show me where they said it was broken. Just because they stated the rules doesn't mean they think the rules perfectly apply to every case exactly how they want it to. They 'could' have made a specific list of conditions when sneak attack applies while still avoiding any broken combos, like saying 'yes, any dex attack gets sneak attack except if you're using a quarterstaff with polearm mastery or if you're using flurry of blows or if...'

But they fucking don't, because the rules aren't supposed to be overcomplicated.

There hasn't been a single point made as to why you shouldn't allow a strength punch to sneak attack, or a dex punch to sneak attack, though in the case of dex punch the only things i can think of are a single level of monk for bonus action attacks that add dex modifier... In which case you could probably have just gotten the two-weapon-fighting style from fighter.

>>51426703
And that's why I provided examples of non-UA fuck-ups, too.

>> No.51426743

>>51426691
No no, I'm more on about the level 11 Hunter feature being leagues and leagues better on ranged than Melee.
On ranged you can hit EVERYONE in your weapon's range (which at max is 150 feet in every direction)
On Melee you just do an eight square spin attack.
Where's the cool in that?

>> No.51426744

>>51426704
he is a dex based mellee.

>> No.51426768

>>51426704
>Aragorn is a Ranger
Nope

He's a Dex fighter with the outlander background

>> No.51426782

>>51426666
>>51426691
If you enlarge yourself enough somehow, whirlwind attack can be pretty terrifying, especially if your DM allows you to make it at 10ft away with a reach weapon.

>> No.51426787

>>51426691
Rangers are not called Rangers because they fight at "range", but because they RANGE.

YOU

DENSE

MOTHERFUCKER


>>51426768
>The Rangers of the North are not a body of organized armed men who range over a region

>> No.51426812

>>51426787
>doesn't know the difference between the word Ranger and the class Ranger

>> No.51426816

>>51426728
>Show me where they said it was broken.
Are you legitimately retarded?
I stated that you were trying to pass off as broken because it ignores the ruling.

>There hasn't been a single point made as to why you shouldn't allow a strength punch to sneak attack
OH I DUNNO DEAR ANON, MAYBE BECAUSE IT BY RAW DOESN'T FUCKING WORK?
Why in the fuck would you insist on getting a "legitimate" reason when the creators themselves says it doesn't work. If you want to homerule then just fucking homerule, it doesn't change the fact that what you're proposing isn't how unarmed punches actually fucking functions.

Literally every single one of your posts is half "but I want a legitimate reason" and the other half being excuses as to why your homeruling should be adopted by everyone.

Also,
>We all know that it's not RAW allfuckingready.
Then why the fuck are you still arguing when you know that you can't sneak attack by RAW?

kingautismo.jpg

>> No.51426820

>>51426812
>the class Ranger is not based on rangers in fiction

??????????
???

?????


??? ??? ???

>> No.51426830

>>51426812
>unironically believes that rangers are called rangers because they fight at range

>> No.51426831

>>51426768
Aragorn is absolutely a str ranger, and his background is noble
Boromir is a fighter, as is legolas (dex battlemaster)
Gimli is a champion
Gandalf is a deva

>> No.51426888

>>51426816
Because, anybody with half a brain can realize this entire conversation has been

>Okay, any DM with sense would let you play a barbarogue who can sneak attack by punching things

>No, a DM wouldn't let you do that, it's broken?

>Why?

>Because it's not RAW.

So what you're basically saying is

>Never do anything that isn't RAW because it's broken

or basically

>Why even fucking have a DM in the first place when you all follow the rules like it's a codebook?

Just because it isn't in the rules doesn't automatically make it broken.
That's like saying 'I want to fucking shoot myself in the head with my crossbow' is broken 'because you can't make the attack action against yourself'.
You might be able to make the attack action against yourself though.

>> No.51426916

>>51426888
not in this exchange, but if a DM doesnt mind, and the players dont mind, then there shouldnt be a problem with using non-RAW shit, right?

who cares unless you're an adventurer's league "competitive" dnd player who plays with randoms all the time.

>> No.51426938

>>51426888
>Just because it isn't in the rules doesn't automatically make it broken.
You clearly are retarded. To rule that anyone using fists can sneak attack is broken, because it isn't RAW, because it BREAKS THE INTENT OF THE GAME.

If someone chips a vase, you'd automatically assume that the vase is overpowered, that's about how tunnelvision you are right now.
Secondly, I am fucking glad you've moved past trying to enforce your retarded houseruling to the system and trying to imply that the DEVS THEMSELVES are wrong about the system.

This is why I stopped coming to /tg/.
>>Why even fucking have a DM in the first place when you all follow the rules like it's a codebook?
Oh but of course, why not add triple modifiers to every weapon, wizard gets to cast 3 spells per round and paladins start with flying and all of their Smites are automatically used with lvl 9 slots.
Because why even use a system when you can have a DM?

The rules are there for a fucking reason, bucko.

>> No.51426952

>>51426916
I play in AL and the DMs there let you get away with stuff by rule of cool all the time

Like using a goblin corpse as an improvised throwing weapon

Or pouring alchemist's fire all over the barbarian to kill a swarm of miniature goblins

>> No.51426977

>>51426916
I'm just hoping they misunderstood the original point back here >>51426134
>if your >>DM ALLOWS<< (Implying it was clear it was never RAW in the first place) sneak attack on unarmed strikes, you can do a punchy strength wrestling barbarogue

And eventually it devolved into 'No, the developers said it's broken' only for it to change into 'No, the developers said it's not RAW'.

>>51426938
Jesus holy fuck anon do you not understand the point of 5e and many RPGS
The rules are supposed to be guidelines, not absolutes. If the DM decides to alter a rule slightly because it would cause problems otherwise (Say, a player wants to abuse simulacrums and it'll cause everybody to stop having fun) then the DM can fucking say 'Okay, there are different rules for this'.

The rules are the intent of the game, but they are not the ABSOLUTE intent of the game. The absolute intent of 5e's rules is to set out the baselines that you should avoid deviating from, but it's fine to make exceptions here and there if it's not gamebreaking and doesn't ruin everyone's fun.

If the DM wants to make a rules alteration, they tell you why. You can't then just say 'but it's not RAW, so it's broken.'
That is not an argument.
You say 'Okay, but aren't people going to multiclass monk/rogue now because it's broken?'
And the DM might have a counterargument, and people will realize that it's actually not broken or actually is. But 'it's not RAW' is not a fucking argment.

>> No.51426998

>>51426812
even the prime example d&d ranger is a melee guy, fucking Drizzt

>> No.51427017

>reading through SKT
>super seeeekrit mary sue Harpers fucking errwhere
>no one knows that they're Harpers despite WEARING A FUCKING HARPER PIN

I swear, this shit and "...male and female of various ethnicities" is really starting to piss me off.

>> No.51427022

>>51426977
Sir spazalot aside, assuming anons DM will adopt any given houserule is asinine.

>> No.51427032

>>51426938
Please explain how "fists are finesse weapons" breaks the game, using specific examples of mechanics, interactions, or situations

>> No.51427084

>>51427022
Well, yes, it is a bit far-fetched, but given there's very little gamebreaking about it I would assume a DM might let you do it.

Not allowing it discourages interesting combat such as grappling opponents, shoving them around and then punching them 'because if you try to grapple with a shield you'll have no weapon to sneak attack with'. And maybe you could say that's overpowered, but the same barbarian could do the same thing except with 1d6 damage instead of 1 damage by dropping the shield and using a shortsword and a free hand instead.
The downside? Well, you've lost 2 AC but you still have uncanny dodge and rage resistances, so what do you care? It's not like you're bashing with the shield for 1d4 damage and sneak from improvized weapon.. sneak.

>> No.51427119

>>51427084
>>51427022
Or, to add to that, let's assume it's not a matter of 'shield or no shield'

If you grapple two people, you need two hands free. You then have no weapons to sneak attack with.
So, you're saying the grappling rogue can't grapple two people without being unable to deal much damage.
If you instead say they can sneak attack on their 1 damage attacks, you're reducing their damage somewhat as a penalty and not allowing them to use magic weapons and such, but allowing them to have fun grappling the shit out of things and then still do stuff.

>> No.51427131

>>51427084
Well, for your specific example, choosing to use a shield is a choice you make, with some inherent drawbacks. Firstly, you second idea, drop the shield, takes your action. Secondly, grappling requires a free hand, so literally punching is out anyway. Thirdly, other anon, the spaz, clearly means breaking the RULES not being overpowered.
Ignoring rules, to ignore more rules, does not a valid point make.

>> No.51427173

>>51427119
Grappling two targets SHOULD stop you from attacking, your response tells me you want to play a gimmick, but insist on mechanical efficiency anyway.
How are you sneak attacking, thematically, when holding two people well enough to prevent movement?
I don't buy it.

>> No.51427192

>>51425779
Not arguing about retaliation every round? I only included frenzy as an afterthought to be thorough.

>> No.51427197

Material spell components, do you require them?

I see them as a hassle, and a barrier for simple spells, so I only require them for rituals. What about you /5eg/?

>> No.51427209

>>51426977
>Jesus holy fuck anon do you not understand the point of 5e and many RPGS
Ah yes, I forgot the clause in the start of the PHB stating "EVERYTHING IN HERE IS OPTIONAL, THE RULES AREN'T RULES, INVENT EVERYTHING."

You're not doing much to dig yourself out of the 'tard hole you've dug there, buddy.
Shiggidydiggidy.

>>51427032
As been stated in probably 16 posts thus far, it doesn't work by RAW, hence it is broken, because it isn't supported by any ruling at all.

>> No.51427227

>>51427197
Wands and staves ignore any without a price tag.

>> No.51427228

>>51425903
Unarmed strikes are not all punches and a raging barbarian hits harder than a monk. Just not as many attacks. Chill.

>> No.51427238

>>51427192
Getting smacked isn't entirely unexpected, just keep provoking AoO until it happens. Plus, you let your friends run around too.

>> No.51427243

I need oneshots tg. Lay em on me

>> No.51427253

>>51427209
Anon you're just retarded, I'm sorry

>> No.51427261

>>51427243
Undersea pirate treasure protected by an ancient hag coven, hilarity ensues.

>> No.51427268

>>51427243
Ok, stand still for a moment.

>> No.51427270

>>51427173
You're sneak attacking because you have them in vulnerable positions where you can execute certain things where you attempt to crush parts of their body, dealing less damage than a typical attack but still.
The idea is that you have mechanical efficiency because otherwise you could just play a barbarian who just punches things for 1+STRMOD+RAGEMOD damage and we could not have this argument altogether. It still works, it still does damage, the barbarian can still take hits, but he won't be mechanically efficient.

>>51427131
The 'drop the shield' idea assumes you never have the shield on in the first place. I just worded it wrong.
The idea is you can already use the shield+rapier style for defensive play or shortswords for more aggressive play. However, the shortswords have the option of dropping swords so you can grapple a guy and then still sneak attack them.
I'll admit the shield+rapier idea is generally stronger already, so it's good that the shortswords have that option, but it's a shame to completely shut down shield+rapier's ability to grapple at all and force them into a more boring playstyle of 'just attack'. If need be, they can nerf it further by saying 'okay, but you'll have disadvantage to hit if you're trying to sneak attack with your fists' or something which means you also have to get advantage to have a chance of even sneak attacking.

>>51427209
Please take by example of the two above anons who actually provide an argument.

>> No.51427289

>>51427253
He's a spastic autist, you are the minmaxing cheat monger, get a room.

>> No.51427304

>>51427227
Only if they're an expensive item like a diamond or some shit. If it's an eye of newt, fuck it.

>> No.51427308

>>51427270
I am not of the opinion that niche gimmicks, like mexican dragon wrestling, needs to be mechanically competitive with standard options.

>> No.51427320

>>51427270
>Please take by example of the two above anons who actually provide an argument.
Where the argument is "FUCK YOU I NEED A LEGITIMATE REASON AS TO WHY MY HOUSERULING SHOULDN'T BE ADAPTED".

tl;dr, short and simple, unarmed attacks can't sneak attack. End of story, end of transcript, there is nothing more to add because that's how it works, full stop.

>> No.51427344

>>51427320
>Where the argument is "FUCK YOU I NEED A LEGITIMATE REASON AS TO WHY MY HOUSERULING SHOULDN'T BE ADAPTED"

And your counter argument is "FUCK YOU RAW IS PERFECT, NEVER TO BE QUESTIONED OR CHANGED OR HOUSE RULED"

I am willing to bet you don't even play RPGs, just pretend you do to shitpost.

>> No.51427359

>>51427320
anon, have you never heard of a sucker punch?

>> No.51427376

>>51427344
My counter argument is "Fuck you it's RAW", you can't fucking push your houseruling onto a system just because you don't like the original you fucking spaztic.

Did you really think that people on here would AGREE with you that RAW should be ignored and that everyone should be able to sneak attack with fists?
Are you truly that retarded?

>> No.51427387

>>51427359
Perfect, are there any mechanical rulings within 5e that allows a character that sucker punches someone free sneak attacks?

No?

Congratulations, you've added nothing to the discussion.

>> No.51427441

>>51427308
Then I guess you either become suboptimal or don't bother convincing your DM to do it and don't play a strength unarmed guy. Though personally I don't care about whether my unarmed guy is strength or dex myself.

There're a couple of things which require minimal changes to allow strength fighterguys to be somewhat adequately an okay even if not entirely optimal idea, such as unarmed strikes being able to sneak attack with disadvantage and changing all of monk's 'dex' based features into 'str' (and not allowing them to take bullshit multiclasses), so I guess if someone wants to do that they should ask their DM instead of complaining that the PHB doesn't suit their exact wants for a character.

>>51427320
Here, let me help you
https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=sage+advice+%22I%27d+allow+it%22+OR+%22I%27ll+allow+it%22
If you search this, you find sage advice articles where they've said 'This isn't RAW, but I'd allow it'
Your precious almighty gods who made the PHB are defying their own RAI to make special exceptions for their characters. Oh no.

>> No.51427459

>>51427387
Yes, I in fact, did just join the discussion, but it seems that guy wants to homebrew, as such, you should stop being a shitter about it. It's logically reasonable to allow, lorewise.

>> No.51427470

You autists will discuss about anything.
In fact, I'd pay to watch all you faggots locked into a room discussing the most inane subjects until all but one decide they had enough. I bet it would go on for days on end.

>> No.51427500

>>51426743
>On ranged you can hit EVERYONE in your weapon's range (which at max is 150 feet in every direction)
That is within a short radius of a point. You don't literally shoot a 150+ feet radius.

>> No.51427539

Is there anyway to make Bladelock not terrible? Gish are fun fantasy wish fulfillment.

>> No.51427542

>>51427470
And you're discussing the discussion. You're more boring by default.

>> No.51427543

>>51427459
As I said before, if he wants to houserule, then by all means fucking houserule.
What I do not allow is that he tried to pass off his houseruling as RAW.

>> No.51427566

>>51427197
>That picture.
Multiple castings of the Friends spell doesn't make it better.

>> No.51427568

>>51427539
Summon the damn thing as a bonus action. No point in making it a full round action.

>> No.51427572

>>51427542
Yeah goy, you're the entertainment. That's the point.
Please don't respond to me any longer, direct your efforts at the current discussion. I'm much too occupied being amused to keep typing.

>> No.51427581

>>51427238
>Plus, you let your friends run around too.
Thank you. I swear that's what eagle barbs are supposed to do.

>> No.51427593

>>51427197
This is the exact reason component pouches / focuses exist.

In a roleplay heavy game I've seen someone use material components to great roleplaying effect, however.

>> No.51427662

>>51427539
Easy; you make a bladesinger, lore bard, edritch knight, arcane trickster, paladin, revised ranger, war cleric, or high elf.

>> No.51427704

>>51427539
>not terrible
Either go fighter1/warlockX and take pact of the tome and use a quarterstaff + GFB/BB
or go
fighter1/warlockX and take pact of the blade and PAM and the pact of the blade invocations when you get them

This way, you'll still be bad and suboptimal, but you won't be absolutely fucking useless trash.


If you want to modify the pact option, you have to remove 'pact of the blade' as a pact entirely or change its purpose so that pact of the blade isn't there to make a non-blade warlock into a blade warlock, but to give blade warlocks some utilities. Instead, whether a warlock uses melee, ranged or both should be decided by an alternate option at level 1 that isn't tied to a patron or pact choice.

>> No.51427748

I'm making a DM's screen today. Any suggested pdf with the most useful information?

>> No.51427784

>>51427243
>a cult is spreading a party drug that turns people into zombies
Act 1: Bard troupe concert turns into dawn of the dead
Act 2: The troupe has been kidnapped during the confusion! Explore/track to drug lab
Act 3: PCs storm drug lab and have to fight cultists and rescue troupe

>A vampire captures a lady
Act 1: PCs are at dinner with noble lady when suddenly BATS EVERYWHERE! Vampire takes the lady!
Act 2: Stage coach chase scene!
Act 3: Boss fight! Use the environment to weaken the vampire!

>A fishing town feeds people to a great old one
Act 1: PCs are sleeping in town when suddenly they are charmed! They must break the charm or drown themselves!
Act 2: PCs investigate, they are attacked by fish people for being nosy
Act 3: Puzzle-fight! They must break a mcguffin in the town church while fighting tentacle things!

>A rival nation is trying to kill the king during a ball
Act 1: PCs must enter the castle as stealthily as possible, fight some guards and take their uniforms
Act 2: Find the assassin! Use scattered info to figure out who it is
Act 3: Protect the king! There was a contingency and the assassin summons a big monster!


I can go on if you guys want more

>> No.51427793

>>51427704
Variant human with moderately armored or dex build praying for a belt of strength also work. Hand Axes are serviceable from level 1. Or dwarf. Especially if you don't actually expect to get to high levels.

>> No.51427823

>>51426743
The Hunter melee power reads:

>You can use your action to make a melee attack against any number of creatures within 5 feet of you, with a separate attack roll for each target.

In the combat rules, it reads (pg 190):
>If you take an action that includes more than one weapon attack, you can break up your movement even further by moving between those attacks.

Therefore, a Hunter with the Whirlwind Attack feature can run around attacking anyone within their movement speed, as long as they're willing to tank opportunity attacks (Which is where Escape The Horde helps)

>> No.51427826

>>51427784
Yes, I want more.

The fishing town one I really like.

>> No.51427831

>>51427784
Go on...

>> No.51427862

>>51427793
Yeah, I guess getting moderately armoured, getting medium armour and shield and about 14 dex then taking pact of the tome for shillelagh is a thing, then using quarterstaff + GWF/BB.
That might be the best way to do it, actually, if you're okay with falling maybe 2 AC short of a plate armour guy with the defense fighting style. Though at later levels you might as well pick up agonizing blast as an invocation and become a normal warlock.

Very little reason to go pact of the blade instead, though.

>> No.51427863

What's better at higher levels on a warlock, hex or witch bolt?

>> No.51427875

An artificer in my group wants the ability to create magic items at a 10th of the cost.

5000 gp - > 500

500,000 gp -> 50,000

now artificers seem really, ok flavorful. They get a scaling gun, can share spells, a robot pet which is CR2 but doesn't scale at all, and gets magic items every few levels.

would you guys change anything about them?

>> No.51427888

Does Shillelagh work with a Glaive? It says club or quarterstaff in the description.

>> No.51427891

>>51427863
Reread Witch Bolt, it doesn't works the way you think it works.

>> No.51427908

>>51427888
I guess you have your answer right there, no?

>> No.51427915

>>51427891
I read it as doing 1d12/spell level and pretty much locking you out of the fight until the target is dead. I'm asking because I assume hex is way better.

>> No.51427917

>>51427875
>create magic items
As if this wasn't bad enough, without
>at a 10th of the cost

If your DM allows this he is a turbofaggot

I'd swap the level 6 ability with the level 5 ability, make the formerly level 6 ability part of a 'pact option'-like choice and also nerf the level 6 feature while also making it scale into the later game.

>> No.51427930

>>51427908
Not really? Because to me it would be a no, but I see a lot of people here say to take it with a glaive?

>> No.51427956

>>51427917
This is what he wants... I was going to just GIVE him the pathfinder summoner pet, spec combined with his gun one.. but I don't know how powerful that is. it's on this thing.

http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/SyF1G_gPg

>> No.51427960

>>51427863
It's either 5d12 instantly as an action and single attack or as a bonus action +1d6 to every attack thereafter.

Let's assume level 11.

>eldritch blast+hex
3d10+3d6+3xCHAMOD (And you can transfer hex around after)
>witch bolt
5d12 (Leaves bonus action free)

I think the answer is obvious.

>> No.51427966

>>51427917
Plu quit avatarfagging when you're calling people fags.

>> No.51427996

>>51427960
It was, it seemed too obvious for the number of times I've seen people grab witch bolt.

>> No.51427998

>>51427915
It only scales on the first turn. "initial damage" it says, I think. Hex is better.

>>51427875
A tenth is too much lads. I'd let his daily increments be bigger, but keeping the price.

>>51427930
Doesn't work with glaives my man. Must be some faggots spewing shit.

>> No.51428063

Make new thread pls, I'm at mobile.

>> No.51428070

>>51427862
You can go on to take heavily armored if it bothers you that much or you want lower dex. Shillelagh is weaker than EB. Greatsword is stronger than EB. If you could use greatsword, and were only playing a 1-10 campaign, it would work out.

>> No.51428098

>>51427956
Yeah, no. There's a very good reason they didn't include extra crafting rules for artificers into arificer, and that's because magic items are essentially class features usually chosen by the DM.

If you let players craft willy-nilly as according to a class feature, they can essentially make themself extra class features.

That said, I'm not sure it's 1/10th of the cost, but it is reduced cost - for example, they can make +1 plate armour for 500gp by those rules.

The extra alchemist items is interesting, but they're mostly different flavours of 'you grant enemies disadvantage/advantage, once a minute' except for stunning which is.. Probably going a bit too far. AoE stuns every minute? Leave the stuns to the monks. Coldsnap is also pretty uninspiring.


Not to mention
>at 6th level you can impose disadvantage to those fucking stuns up to 5 times a long rest if you managed to get 20 int somehow
Fuck off
and then
>at 9th level, add MORE DAMAGE
Fuck off
and then
-
Oh, I see what they've done. They've buffed it because they moved the mechanical companion feature into a subtype.
Hmm. No, I still don't like it. I'd say it's honestly better to work with the player to allow crafting magic items as per the story (rather than 'at-will' with money) and to allow players to trade their 6th level feature for something else like extra custom alchemist brews.

>> No.51428124

>>51428098
If I give him pet crafting I think he'll let off.

Is the pet crafting op, if he still had a gun?

>> No.51428125

>>51428116
New thread, my dudes.

>> No.51428127

>>51427966
Who let you out of your cage and allowed you to speak, faggot?

>>51427996
Witch bolt only does 1d12 damage after the initial damage, and that's stupidly bad compared to just eldritch blasting.
It looks like a good spell, but it's fucking terrible.

>>51428070
Shillelagh+GFB/BB can often be better than EB at levels 1-10 and you don't need an invocation.
It doesn't do much more than that, but it's better than using a rapier and getting extra attack for MADness and either more (if secondary effect doesn't trigger) or less (if secondary effect does trigger) damage.

>> No.51428158

>>51428125
You forgot the title.

>> No.51428168

>>51428125
and you left the discord in

>> No.51428170

>>51428158
Whoopsies.
People can still find it looking for 5eg because of the base post though.

>> No.51428215

>>51421454

I don't get what's so bad about Warlock. It makes a fairly powerful ranged attack every turn and has some nifty spells and abilities that can add to all pillars of play.

>> No.51428255

>>51427376
>you can't fucking push your houseruling onto a system just because you don't like the original you fucking spaztic
Except you can, that's the whole point of houseruling you mongoloid.

>> No.51428260

>>51428215
It just didn't live up to other full caster like WIzard or Lore Bard.

>> No.51428289

>>51428255
>Ah yes, this is my latest houseruling, this means it is completely RAW and will overwrite the current rules and everyone needs to follow it.

Because that's what he was doing you fucking 'tard.

>> No.51428304

>>51428260

Well nothing lives up to full casters because nobody else can toss out a dozen different spells a day.

I don't see why the Warlock keeps getting singled out in that regard. If anything, it's the most well balanced spellcaster.

>> No.51428323

>>51428289
No it wasn't. I can't even imagine how stupid you would have to be to think that.

>> No.51428325

>>51428124
That pet thing is game breaking.

It's also represent everything that is wrong with 3.pf and the thing that 5e trying to move away from. Like cluttering of complex rule, mental note taxing of both player and DM. companion action economy issue.

>> No.51428440

>>51428323
>Coming from the man who not only misinterprets the entire argument, but also automatically assumes that he knows anything about the subject at hand.

Shiggidiydiggidydigeridoo
Calling you dumb would be an insult to actual dumb people.

>> No.51428486

>>51428440
Buddy you don't know who I am. And I saw the whole argument. You just kept saying anything that wasn't RAW was broken like a retard, it's a little late to backtrack on that now.

>> No.51428651

>>51428440
>Buddy you don't know who I am
kingautismo.jpg

>You just kept saying anything that wasn't RAW was broken like a retard
And this is where you pretty much front that you've read fuckall of the actual argument.
The argument was that it was breaking the set rules of how unarmed attacks function, hence it's breaking the intended game, you fullblown autist.

>> No.51428677

>>51427826
>>51427831
Okay here goes

>A noble's domain is being eaten away by a shadowy void
Act 1: while trying to figure out what the void is PCs get attacked by armored skeletons!
Act 2: Suddenly Lord Soth appears! The PCs are sucked into a mirror where a tournament is happening, they must help the pre-undead Soth win to escape!
Act 3: Lord Soth is weakened by conflicting memories! Fight him back into the void!

>A spelljammer crew crash lands nearby
Act 1: PCs see an explosion in the distance, it's a spelljammer! Help rescue the crew!
Act 2: A mindflayer ship appears! They drop intelligence devourers!
Act 3: The ship lands, help your new friends take it from its captain!

>Escape from the desert
Act 1: PCs are attacked by an asshole wizard who plane-shifts them to Athas for no reason!
Act 2: Fight some desert elf bandits!
Act 3: Convince the desert elf shaman to use the lingering magic to plane-shift you back

>> No.51428698

>>51428651
That's just a rewording of what I said, silly.

>> No.51428711

>>51428698
>trying to twist words and pass them off as your own
Which part of the spectrum are you at?

>> No.51428725

>>51428711
Is English not your first language? Maybe that's the problem here.

>> No.51428746

>>51428725
To reiterate;
>You just kept saying anything that wasn't RAW was broken like a retard
And you are claiming that English isn't MY native language?
Shiggidiggidydidgeridoo.

>> No.51428778

>>51428746
So is your issue that those weren't literally your exact words? I suppose that's true.

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