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[ERROR] No.51334235 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Kamigakari Anon, are you still present to answer inquiries?

Old Thread: >>51221531

>> No.51335697

>>51334235
Doesn't seem like it. But if this thread lives long enough, I'll have a table of all PC-relevant Talents for quick comparsion and overview.

>> No.51337879

>>51335697
Nice! Looking forward to it.

I am reading through the book right now. Looks interesting, albeit the writing is dense and sometimes kinda hard to parse. It is also interesting to see how Japanese treat their RPGs differently. Like that GM advice that is basically straight up saying "you can invalidate your PCs' actions freely and move the story forward if you think you should."

>> No.51338776

Since people talked about it in the last thread, I fixed up some fillable character sheets. First time doing anything like this, so I assume other people could make them much more aesthetically pleasing, but they should be functional enough.

>> No.51338822

>>51338776
And here's the record sheet as well.

Also, since I completely fell in love with both the setting and the system after Kamigakari Anon's posts, I ended up buying the core book + 3 of the expansion books. My Japanese is acceptable at best (and translating takes quite some time to say the least), but I am thinking of at least translating any relevant information for the new styles/races, if Kamigakari Anon moves on to some other project. You'll just have to wait 'til they get shipped over from Japan.

>> No.51338889

>>51338822

Anon that's breaking it down into a boxed set. Where did you order yours? And when you get them, would you mind supplying us with cover art, and perhaps one or two internal art pieces? Not the full range, but just some stuff I can toss in to break up the text a bit more than it is.

>> No.51339189

>>51338889
Got the books from CDJapan. Can recommend them, it is a good site.

And would like to give you guys art, but unfortunately I don't really have access to any scanner. Hopefully someone else can provide on that front.

>> No.51339453

>>51339189
I have a scanner, but I live in Germany, so shipping and customs make purchasing anything from Japan a financial nightmare.

>> No.51340084

>>51338822
I'd have asked the original translator if I'd seen the first thread live, so I'll ask you now. Can you translate the FAQ he mentioned last thread? I feel like that would be fairly helpful since we can't nust8call one of you up everytime we have a question.

>> No.51340247

what is the setting like?

>> No.51341123

>>51340247
It is a mashup of every "modern urban fantasy" anime, LN and manga you can think about. Superpowered human hunting for supernatural threats and disturbances? Check. Secret societies like the Church, Mage Association, Demon Hunters, megacrops, assassins groups etc.? Check. Supernatural critters and more powerful beings hidden in the confluxes of ley lines? Check. Powerful beings spwaned from negative emotions and the malice of humanity, wishing for universal destruction and signing dark pacts with normal people? Check. "Most of the mythology is true, magic exists" premise? Check. Lots of random mythological names and artifacts appearing? Check. Focus on young characters and the option being descendant from gods/vampires/mage lineges/kitsune/whatever? Check. Magical girls, henshin heroes, shadowbending assassins, mages uploading their spells to smartphones? Check. Lots of generally weeb/chuuni shit like magical circles, sigils appearing on your body (including eyes!), secret techniques, fighting inside "barriers" (mirror dimensions ala Doctor Strange Movie) and oversized weapons? Check, of course! Hell, there are even Heroic Spirits in the expansions.

Overall, it is not original at the least but it is also kinda fun in its simplicity. It's a kitchen sink of anime tropes and Japanese modern fantasy so if you like that you should recognize most elements pretty quickly.

>>51338822
You are doing God's work, Anon. New Styles/Races/Armaments would be really cool. There is already Cyborg translated in the last thread, in case anybody missed it.

>> No.51342690

>>51340084
I started looking through the FAQ, but ran into a minor problem: Since it refers to the pages of the original handbook, it is kinda hard to know exactly what it is talking about with just the translated PDF. Especially so when I don't have all the original Japanese terms.

I'll get to it once the books arrive, unless I get too distracted by all the new fancy stuff.

>> No.51343156

is there a pdf?

>> No.51343297

>>51343156
It's in the previous thread

>> No.51345658

>>51343156
Here, I will even spoonfeed you

>http://www.mediafire.com/file/183vmgy8b3w1uj3/Kamigakari.rar

Also, Cyborg translated:

>http://pastebin.com/CYHt7S3U

>> No.51347143

>>51341123
>megacrops

God damned plant people.

>> No.51347159

>>51345658
Not him but thanks for the Cyborg stuff, anon

>> No.51347424

This game sounds really fun, the dice system seems great. Anyone play or planning a session yet?

>> No.51347975

Maybe they wanted an actual PDF

>> No.51348600

I have come up with what I think is a very powerful build.

Basics:
• World Influence Level: 1
• Race: Cyborg (Cyberdive, Precise Adjustment)
• Stat Type: Martial
• Main Stats: Strength 7, Agility 6, Intellect 1, Will 1, Luck 1
• Main Style: Arc Slayer A (Secrets of the Destroyer, Yang Style, Mysteries of Battle)
• Secondary Style: Dragon Carrier A (Crystal Transformation)

Items:
• Weapon: Form: Ranged: Heavy Firearm, 2500G, plus free Enhancing Modifications
• Protector: Suit: Resist Jacket, 800G
• Accessory: Hand: Magatama Bangle, 500G
• Accessory: Lower: Tactical Holster, 1000G
• Accessory: Upper: Jacket, 100G
• Remaining: 100G

Derived Statistics:
• Accuracy: 7 = 7 Strength + 1 Arc Slayer - 1 Heavy Firearm
• Evasion: 8 = 6 Agility + 2 Arc Slayer
• Conjuration: 1 Intellect
• Resistance: 1 Will
• Insight: 1 Luck
• PD: 24 = 4 half Strength rounded up + 4 Arc Slayer + 6 Heavy Firearm + 4 Enhancing Modifications + 2 Magatama Bangle + 4 Tactical Holster
• MD: 1 half Intellect rounded up
• Initiative: 11 = 6 Agility + 5 base + 7 Arc Slayer - 5 Heavy Firearm - 2 Resist Jacket
• HP: 46 = 7 Strength + 1 Will + 3 thrice level + 35 Arc Slayer
• Armor: None
• Barrier: 3 Resist Jacket

For [5] at the start of combat, this character enters Crystal Transformation for +1 Rank to all attacks.

For [E] and [O], not that trivial a cost, they can activate Precise Adjustment, Yang Style, and Mysteries of Battle. This gives +1 Accuracy, +1 Rank, and +10 damage.

In other words, this character can, on a regular basis, target three enemies within 8 squares at a total of Accuracy +8, Rank +2, and PD +34. That is completely devastating.

Noncombat-wise, the character can pull their weight with high Strength and Agility and Cyberdive. The one weakness of this build is its frailty.

Can anyone see any issues with this build? More importantly, can anyone come up with a build that can kill multiple enemies with even greater ruthless efficiency?

>> No.51349451

bump

>> No.51350946

Kamigakari PDF page 123: Shadow Gate and Shadow Wind effects are exactly the same, except the range. Even the fluff descriptions are the same. Is this intended?

>> No.51351448

>>51348600
Heavy Firearm doesn't add to your [PD] {Combat Stat}.

>> No.51351630

>>51351448

I seem to have made an error. I included the PD twice from the Tactical Holster. Therefore, the damage should simply be:
>• PD: 20 = 4 Arc Slayer + 6 Heavy Firearm + 4 Enhancing Modifications + 2 Magatama Bangle + 4 Tactical Holster

Which is still a mighty high amount that goes up to +30 with Mysteries of Battle.

Another heavy-offense build I am considering is an Elder Mage A + Dark Hunter A who uses Shadow Double on Grand Spell Invocation. How well might such a build work?

>> No.51351723

Kamigakari PDF page 243: For the "Range of Attack Actions with No Range" section, the last line should most likely say "Magic Attack" instead of "Melee Attack."

>> No.51351970

>>51351630
>Shadow Double on Grand Spell Invocation
What are you trying to do with your regular Attack Timing?

>> No.51351993

Holy shit! First time I'm hearing about this game. Almost didn't even click the thread, but I was bored. So glad I did!

I read through the old thread and am really excited about the system now. Also kind of sad because I was working on a system with similar mechanics ideas but this game seems to do it much better! Ha, ha. Oh well, maybe I can steal from it.

Thank you so much for translating!

>> No.51352274

>>51351970

A regular attack with a Focus, presumably.

>> No.51352473

Kamigakari PDF page 126 and 128: There are two Talents named Element Burst. The second should be changed to something else, as Element Master and Origin Power both refer to Element Burst.

>> No.51352672

>>51352274
Sounds unreliable since you have to trigger Damage Calculation to use Shadow Double. Using a talent that lets you make a regular attack after you use Grand Spell Invocation normally, and then applying cost discounts to both could be the better path.

>> No.51352729

>>51352672

>you have to trigger Damage Calculation to use Shadow Double
Given a very high Conjure from being a magus with Familiar the ability to swap out d6s with Influence, and targeting two enemies with a Focus, it cannot be too bad. There is also the magus's Attack Magic to assure a Damage Calculation.

>Using a talent that lets you make a regular attack after you use Grand Spell Invocation normally
Such as...?

>> No.51352943

>>51352729
Such as Digital Sorcerer A's Battle Interpreter.

Elder Mage A already gets Quick Spell, which has a similar effect to Shadow Double.

>> No.51353134

>>51352943
Never mind Battle Interpreter. At least the Shadow Double or Quick Spell method costs one less spirit.

>> No.51353211

>>51353134

Quick Spell comes only at level 3, minimum.

Could Shadow Double and Quick Spell be used together for two Grand Spell Invocations in a row?

I have to wonder how well this build actually performs compared to the gunner in >>51348600 and >>51351630.

>> No.51353262

Main Style: Elder Mage A
Second Style: Arc Slayer A

Lv3: Elder Mage A - ◎ Attack Magic Expert
Lv5: High Talent - Continuous Action
Lv10: ※ Style Ultimate - ◎ Invincible Manslayer)
Lv10: High Talent - Great Caster

Invincible Manslayer turns Grand Spell Invocation into [Cost: Doubles]. Attack Magic Expert treats one part of that cost as paid. Starting level 10, fire away with 1-spirit Grand Spell Invocation, using Continuous Action to use it twice. Use your other levels and resources to add to damage. Lv15 should take Continuous Action again for more spam.

>> No.51353352

>>51353262
>level 10

>> No.51353387

>>51353352
>not playing the long game

>> No.51353556

>>51353387
>implying you'll get there before your game falls apart

>> No.51353624

>>51353556
The build still works before level 10. It would simply use less Grand Spell Invocation and more weapon attacks to varying degrees.

>> No.51354476

>stats directly affect accuracy and avoidance
>choose 2 stats to increase every single level
>there are three different avoidance stats, none of which help with accuracy
Why

>> No.51354856

>>51347143
Also present!

>> No.51355306

>>51348600
Aren't Heavy Firearms restricted to Utility styles? You would have to give up one talent to take Weapon Proficiency instead.

>> No.51355467

>>51350946
Seems like it. Also check the cost and range.

>> No.51355504

>>51354476
That's a feature called [Anti Snowflake].

>> No.51355975

>>51355306

You are correct. Let us update the build, then.

Basics:
• World Influence Level: 1
• Race: Cyborg (Cyberdive, Precise Adjustment)
• Stat Type: Martial
• Main Stats: Strength 7, Agility 6, Intellect 1, Will 1, Luck 1
• Main Style: Arc Slayer A (Secrets of the Destroyer, Yang Style, Mysteries of Battle)
• Secondary Style: Dragon Carrier A (Crystal Transformation)

Items:
• Weapon: Form: Ranged: Firearm, 1300G, plus free Enhancing Modifications, plus Multi-Target for 1500G
• Accessory: Hand: Magatama Bangle, 500G
• Accessory: Lower: Tactical Holster, 1000G
• Accessory: Upper: Jacket, 100G
• Remaining: 600G
• Session Prep: Gain 200G, then buy Protector: Suit: Resist Jacket, 800G

Derived Statistics:
• Accuracy: 8 = 7 Strength + 1 Arc Slayer
• Evasion: 8 = 6 Agility + 2 Arc Slayer
• Conjuration: 1 Intellect
• Resistance: 1 Will
• Insight: 1 Luck
• PD: 18 = 4 Arc Slayer + 4 Firearm + 4 Enhancing Modifications + 2 Magatama Bangle + 4 Tactical Holster
• MD: 1 half Intellect rounded up
• Initiative: 14 = 6 Agility + 5 base + 7 Arc Slayer - 2 Firearm - 2 Resist Jacket
• HP: 46 = 7 Strength + 1 Will + 3 thrice level + 35 Arc Slayer
• Armor: None
• Barrier: 3 Resist Jacket

For [5] at the start of combat, this character enters Crystal Transformation for +1 Rank to all attacks.

For [E] and [O], not that trivial a cost, they can activate Precise Adjustment, Yang Style, and Mysteries of Battle. This gives +1 Accuracy, +1 Rank, and +10 damage.

In other words, this character can, on a regular basis, target three enemies within 8 squares at a total of Accuracy +9, Rank +2, and PD +28. I still like to think that this is a monstrously strong build.

>> No.51356231

>>51354476
What exactly is your problem?

>> No.51356391

Summarizing Talents turns out to be quite a slog, because I keep stumbling over ambiguous or questionable parts.

>> No.51357388

>>51356391
Maybe post what you got here along with questionable parts so we can try to clear them up.

>> No.51357487

RAWs when?

>> No.51357682

Are there any rules for making your own monokes?

Also which splat has the [God Hand] style that's mentioned in the brief write-up for 47 in the npc list?

>> No.51359316

Bump

>> No.51361995

>>51357682
Expansion books.

>> No.51365640

>>51357487
When people with actual books get a hold of a decent scanner. There are no official PDFs from what the translator in the last thread said.

>> No.51366170

Anyone got a site where one can buy these books?

>> No.51368944

>>51365640
Where is the official FAQ?

>> No.51368976

Looking this over, this has been a rarity where I see a ton of REALLY DIFFERENT builds and character concepts that I want to play.

>> No.51369141

Oh, uh, hi guys. I don't check /tg/ every day, and I sort of thought it would be presumptuous of me to keep a thread going. But if people have questions, please let me know! I'm sure there's many...

One thing I've already determined I'd do is make up a Kamigakari PDF 2.0, where I correct a bunch of errors. For instance, the 'Melee Range' defaults being listed twice (one is supposed to be Magical Range, the latter one), and Crystal Transformation saying it 'does' spend your Start when... no, it doesn't.

>>51368944
FAQ and Errata can both be found here: http://r-r.arclight.co.jp/rpg/kamigakari/support-kamigakari

>> No.51369301

>>51369141
Thanks again for translating this! It's new to me and I find what you said about it in the last thread very interesting.

Keep up the good work!

>> No.51369302

>>51369141
bless u for translating this. Thanks anon

>> No.51369310

You guys convinced me, also. Seems Kami is more popular than I would've realized! So...

I'm going to release ALL of my translations up to this point. PLEASE KEEP IN MIND: these are very rough, possibly incorrect, unedited, and all in raw as heck text files. None of this is complete or ready. But if you really want it, you got it.

http://pastebin.com/u/RoyalTeaRed

Basically I have about half of the first expansion done, and then from the other two I mostly translated the races and styles. There's very little else at the moment, but I suspect races/styles are most important right now. Items will come, but slowly. They're next on my list.

Also, since you'll get there soon, here's the Sanctum Sheet, for use with the stuff in Requiem. It is untranslated. http://r-r.arclight.co.jp/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/kgk_dungeon1.pdf

>> No.51369417

>>51369141

I may as well ask a few questions, then.

1. How do automatic success talents actually work? Consider the following maneuvers:

Unlocking
Check: {Agility}
Restrict: None
Time: 10 Minute (60 Rounds)
Effect: The PC removes locks securing treasure chests or doors (including electronic locks), or
removes man-made traps. For this [Maneuver], the higher the [Result], the more complex lock
or trap that can be dealt with. In the case of a trap, failing at [Unlocking] will cause the trap to
spring.

Lore
Check: {Intellect}
Restrict: None
Time: 10 Minute (60 Rounds)
Effect: Recalling general knowledge or folklore. The higher the [Result] of the {Intellect} check
for [Lore], the more detail that can be gained.

If I roll incredibly low and use an automatic success talent on [Unlocking], does that mean I can still fail to pick a lock or disarm a trap anyway, because the [Result] is what matters and not success/failure against the [Difficulty]?

If I roll quite low and use an automatic success talent on [Lore], does that mean I gain an extremely tiny, unhelpful amount of information, because the information is based on the [Result] and not success/failure against the [Difficulty]?

2. Is there really anything stopping someone from ignoring starting equipment restrictions by using the G to purchase items during [Session Prep]?

3. Can a talent like Shadow Double or Quick Spell, either of which treats a [Cost] as having already paid, let you use a talent even though its [Cost] is not in your [Spirit] pool?

4. What does [Shadow Wind] actually do? It is a copy of the default [Shadow Gate] with ever so slightly greater range.

5. Is the millionaire [Cover] really supposed to grant bonuses to [Actions]?

6. The book is deeply unclear on how [Special Attacks] actually work. Is it that a [Physical Attack] or a [Magical Attack] can also become a [Special Attack], above and beyond its physical/magical status?

>> No.51369421

>>51338776
>>51338822
Also, wow, thank you so much for those fillable sheets, and for supporting Rikizou!

I intend to translate literally everything for Kamigakari, though it'll take some time, naturally. There's six expansion books currently! That's a lot to do, plus there's some minor data stuff in the replay, and it gets at least some items and Mononoke in Role & Roll Magazine every month. I don't even own those! But I appreciate the enthusiasm.

>> No.51369558

>>51369310
Oh wow... took a look at the Requiem stuff... that's exciting! You're doing amazing work with these translations, anon

>> No.51369561

>>51352473
Whoa. Okay, I'm not sure how that happened. The one on page 128 should be Element Blast. Noting this one down for 2.0

>>51350946
Thanks for pointing this out! Shadow Wind should have the following effect: Unique Effect. The target gains a +1d6 modifier to {Initiative}. This Talent does not spend [Start]. If used [Out of Combat] on a target performing [Acrobatics], they succeed at the check regardless of the outcome of the [Roll] (treat as [Result: 20].)

I'll add this to 2.0 as well.

>>51351723
Yup! Magical Attack. Already been noted for 2.0. Thank you though!

>>51357682
There are no rules, unfortunately. I suppose they needed something to keep printing to make money. As for the other question, please see my post >>51369310

>> No.51369729

>>51369561
We have a JRPG discord, with other translators. They like the game. Want to join?

https://discord.gg/fdQHCb3

>> No.51369838

>>51369417
1. That's a good question. Let me poke around on the FAQ and errata and stuff and see if I can't come up with anything. I sort of answered it in the previous thread, but not very satisfyingly, I admit. I'll get back to you on it!

2. Other than the GM, nope.

3. I'd have to dive into the FAQ to know for sure (if it's even brought up there), but my assumption is yes. It just seems too weird otherwise.

4. See >>51369561 ! Also I'm thinking an errata document on my pastebin would be a good idea, so I'll be putting it up there.

5. Nope, it gives bonuses to two [Maneuvers]. [Actions] was a hold over term when I was translating and I completely forgot Millionaire referenced it.

6. So Special Attacks are essentially exactly the same in all ways as what the Item or Talent says it is. The only difference is, the target has to roll Insight, as opposed to Evasion or Resist. This usually but not always means it'll be a crap defense. (For Mononoke, use the CHK column.)

>> No.51369944

While we're at it: Godhunter NPCs.
Are you really supposed to add 8 to get the fixed values? The average of 2d6 is 7.

>> No.51369992

>>51369310

Legion A has this:

※ Focused Assault
Timing : Attack
Range : Item
Target : 1#
Cost : [5, 5]
Utilizing special combat techniques, you make an unparalleled focused assault.
Use On Active Check. The user performs two [Weapon Attacks] against the [Target]. While the user may apply Talents that have an effect on [Attack Actions] to this Talent, if making a [Ranged Attack] or [Magical Attack] with this Talent, it cannot be used after a [Combat Move]. This Talent may be used once per round.

Does this synergize with Arc Slayer A's Mysteries of Battle as well as I think it does? That would be two attacks each with +10 damage.

Would I have to use a separate Yang Style for each of the two attacks, or would a single Yang Style cover for both attacks?

>> No.51370067

Do [Target: Area] and [Target: Combat Zone] attacks cause friendly fire?

I can find no such rule stating that allies are exempt. Have I missed such a rule?

>> No.51370309

And you haven't answered >>51272878 yet

>> No.51370381

>>51369944
Yup! Or that's what it says in the book. I assume they're *supposed* to be a little tougher, because a lot of their other stuff is pretty strong too.

>>51369417
So I couldn't find a specific answer to your #1 (the FAQ is very big, 2000+ lines). But here's what I got to thinking while pondering on it. I re-checked the phrasing of those Maneuvers in question, and all they say is that "the higher your Result, the better you do." This means to me that there is no "failure" state for this roll. It's not like, say, Climbing, where you need to roll something specific to succeed, and if you don't, you fail.

Moreover, the Talents themselves all say "regardless of the Roll" and also the rules in Reading a Talent say to treat use the roll as-is to figure out who wins in the case of two people using auto-success Talents in an Opposed Check. This leads me to think that in the case of Maneuvers like Lore and Unlocking, you would also just use the result as-is.

Therefore, it's my assumption the automatic success Talents DO NOT work on those types of maneuvers. But that's just my assumption. Does that make sense? I hope it does.;

>>51370067
As far as I'm aware, there is no friendly fire, and no line of sight in Kamigakari. Area effects say they can freely target within the Area, as per the diagram on page 245.

>>51369992
So here's a weird thing. Mysteries of Battle actually wants to be used on "Use On Active Check." The Japanese for that is as follows:

能動判定時に使用。

Meanwhile, Focused Assault is as follows:
能動時に使用。

This second one is used a lot, and usually on attacks. The former is used on Yang Style. So I think I done fucked up on that particular translation, and will be working to resolve it.

As for the second part of the question, I found in the FAQ that if you use an effect that raises one of the Weapon Attacks, it only affects ~that one~, not both. It was referring to Additional Effects, but I assume it extends to Talents, too.

>> No.51370462

>>51370309
Sorry about that! Otherworldly Gaze allows you to make an Assess maneuver, and use its result as though it were the result of Identify.

Bonus time: I found that I accidentally skipped some errata for Otherworldly Gaze. You ignore both the Time and Restrict on Assess when making this. So even a non-Martial Scion can use it without receiving a penalty.

>> No.51370504

>>51370381

So does this mean that, for example, the cyborg's Retractable Armaments and the dragon lord's Dragonpulse Destruction do *not* actually work in conjunction with Mysteries of Battle?

Which talents absolutely, positively, undoubtedly work with Mysteries of Battle? It is an extremely strong talent that is the crux of many high-offense builds, so knowing what it is actually compatible with will be helpful.

>> No.51370728

>>51370504
Looking through the books, here is what it WILL work with. Please assume not listed here is wrongly translated, and will be fixed for 2.0.

Arc Slayer's Yang Style
God Hand's Swift Art
Contractor's Spirit Tracking

...And that's it.

>> No.51370793

>>51370504
>>51370728
Shit, I'm bad at this. What I mean to say is, I was looking for Use On Active Check. Swift Art and Spirit Tracking were the only two I saw with that wording.

Everything else is Use While Active. So Retractable Armaments and Dragonpulse Destruction would ~not~ work.

Basically if it's something that gives a bonus to an accuracy, conjure, or active check, it works. If it's an attack, it does not work.

>> No.51370802

>>51370728

That is a surprisingly short list.

What of the Divine Talker's Holy Word Strike?

Holy Word Strike
Timing : Unique
Range : User
Target : User
Cost : [O]
Using a special word, you enhance your own spirit energy.
Use On {Conjure} Check. The target gains a +1 modifier to the result of the {Conjure} check. This Talent may be used once per round.

>> No.51370832

>>51370802
Yup, that would work! Sorry, I got a little flustered by my mistake so I was hurrying to fix it...

>> No.51370894

>>51370381
>So I couldn't find a specific answer to your #1 (the FAQ is very big, 2000+ lines). But here's what I got to thinking while pondering on it. I re-checked the phrasing of those Maneuvers in question, and all they say is that "the higher your Result, the better you do." This means to me that there is no "failure" state for this roll. It's not like, say, Climbing, where you need to roll something specific to succeed, and if you don't, you fail.

>Moreover, the Talents themselves all say "regardless of the Roll" and also the rules in Reading a Talent say to treat use the roll as-is to figure out who wins in the case of two people using auto-success Talents in an Opposed Check. This leads me to think that in the case of Maneuvers like Lore and Unlocking, you would also just use the result as-is.

>Therefore, it's my assumption the automatic success Talents DO NOT work on those types of maneuvers. But that's just my assumption. Does that make sense? I hope it does.;

Now, this confuses me, because all of the Will maneuvers are [Result]-dependent.

Does this not mean that the scion's Sacramental Majesty would only ever work on Will-based [Mend] checks?

Also, your explanation for «Combo Skill» is highly obtuse and unintuitive, although that could be the original writer's fault. Could you please break it down step by step?

>> No.51371036

>>51370894
Hawa, well, to my thinking basically... is there a [Difficulty]? If yes, automatic success works on it, but it only just meets the difficulty. If there is not and you're rolling just to see how high you roll, then they do not work on it, because there's no success or fail state, it's just reading how high you go.

Does that help?

Combo Skill I translated just today in fact, so I'm not surprised it isn't very clear. But one portion that is lacking is that it's actually a High Talent, level 5.

«Combo Skill»
Timing: Unique
Range: User
Target: User
Cost: None
You unleash a powerful combination attack you devised yourself.
Unique Effect. Use when the target declares an [Effect Class: Physical Attack] Talent. The target may use and stack the effects of another [Effect Class: Physical Attack] Talent that they already have acquired (each Talent's [Cost] must be paid individually). This Talent may be used once per round.

So as per the examples given, let's say you use God Hand's Smiting Wave. You pay for it as per normal, and it'll give you a Main Stat to your damage. But then you declare Combo Skill, and stack Heroic Spirit's Heroic Strike. You must use the Physical Attack portion of this, so it gives you both the Main Stat, and +1 Rank, so long as you can also pay its cost.

They both have Target: 1#, so you just need to decide whether you want Charge 4 Sq., or 7 Sq. as your Range.

However, it seems like, as per the second example, if Smiting Wave happened to be Target: Area, you would *have* to use its Range and Target. You couldn't pick, say, Heroic Strike's Range, and Smiting Wave's Target.

>> No.51371161

>>51371036

I suppose Sacramental Majesty really does work only on Will-based [Mend] checks. That is rather narrow.

«Combo Skill» does not seem especially effective for a level 5 talent, but that is the writer's call, I suppose.

>> No.51371256

As for the automatic successes working on Lore etc. I think you have it wrong. Nothing in the game before ever implies that there is a degree of succes mechanic in place. If anything, It is always referring to set Difficulties and even explicitly states that if the maneuver doesn't provide Difficulties in its description then the GM should set one. I think that things like Lore should be just normal rolls to get a piece of information and their description is just stating the obvious "rolling higher means you can beat higher Difficulties."

Anyway, thanks for releasing those other initial translations! Will have a look at them.

>> No.51371301

>>51371161
It is a little narrow. If it helps, I haven't translated the GM section of Requiem yet, which has a long list of Events to populate Sanctums with. Some of them call for Will checks.

Also, it occurs to me that even though there's no guideline for Difficulty listed, it's very much within the GM's call to make there be one. How hard is it to charm the bodyguard into leaving her post? Depending on your approach, it might be "an expert could do it" so you use the appropriate difficulty.

Or, as >>51371256 put it, while I was writing!

Combo Skill might be useful if you have Talents that can reduce the cost of attacks, or have a very helpful Digital Sorcerer around.

>> No.51371348

>>51371301

Time Wizard B has this:

Kairos Bleed
Timing : Prep/Attack
Range : 5 Sq.
Target : 1#
Cost : [1]
Using a special spatio-temporal spell, you launch countless bullets of light that tear down space itself.
Magical Attack. The user makes a [Magical Attack] by spending one [Timing] of either [Prep (OR) Attack], then inflicts [Rank: 1] [Magical Damage] on the target (resist [Halves].) This Talent may be used once per round (or scene).

The translation is confusing. How exactly does this work? Is the [Rank: 1] [Magical Damage] on top of whatever attack you make?

>> No.51371418

>>51371348
Nope, it means it itself is an Attack. You simply can use it with either Prep or Attack Timing, and it inflicts Rank 1 Magical Damage.

>> No.51371473

>>51371301

>Also, it occurs to me that even though there's no guideline for Difficulty listed, it's very much within the GM's call to make there be one.

Does "the higher the result, the better..." actually refer to [Difficulties], then, rather than open-ended margins of success?

>> No.51371509

>>51371473
It never mentions Difficulty at all. But the beginning of the Maneuver section does state that if there's no specific guideline for Difficulty, the GM should set one.

>> No.51371671

>>51371509

So how would a maneuver like Lore actually work with an automatic success talent like Ancient Memories? What would the process from the GM be, before and after the Ancient Memories?

Also, could you please break down how the level-based upgrades of Godforged Regalia work? I am not sure I quite understand what it means to gain "Acquire 1 [Godforged Power: Weapon, Common] Each" at level 1.

>> No.51371729

>>51371671

As well, how do nonhostile "attacks" such as the Elder Mage A's High Cure actually work? Does the target simply not make a [Reactive Check]?

>> No.51371760

>>51371671
Basically, like any other game. I will probably end up rewriting that line for Maneuvers with it, honestly. But...

GM goes 'okay, so you want to know about the old clocktower. It's pretty obscure and no one has really done anything with it since Purgatory Night, so it'll be a 16 difficulty.'

Or, he could go, "there's been a lot of talk about restoring the clocktower recently, so there's a lot of easily available information on it. Difficulty 10."

Essentially, it's not saying "it's an open-ended check" but "more difficult things require a higher result." So... that's why I will probably rewrite it, because it doesn't make sense otherwise. I just never thought about it until now.

There are actual Godforged Powers to pick, I just haven't translated them yet. So like you'd pick the one that makes the weapon deal +20 damage against non-Boss Mononoke, or something. It's like an Additional Effect, only specific to Godforged.

>>51371729
I looked this up a bit ago, in fact! The target does not HAVE to make a check, so in that case they just treat it as they fail (so that means they get healed, in this case). However, they can, if they want to, make the check. This allows them to [Influence], if they want. But if they succeed... they resist and negate the healing.

>> No.51372238

God Hand A offers this:

Storm Smite
Timing : Attack
Range : Item
Target : 1#
Cost : [6]
You rapidly enhance your power by unleashing an attack that places tremendous strain on your weapons.
Physical Attack. The user gains +2 [Rank] at [Damage Calculation]. All [Weapons] used for «Storm Smite», after [Timing: End], are unable to be [Equipped] until [Combat End].

Would this not mean that a God Hand-user loses their ability to use unarmed attacks until the combat ends?

>> No.51372276

>a good game gets tainted with 2hufag

Well, shit.

>> No.51372357

>>51372238
Whatever [Weapon] they have equipped effectively gets destroyed, or well, "strained." [Unarmed] is not technically a weapon, so it wouldn't get destroyed. That Talent is pretty clearly meant to be used with Spirit Armament though.

>>51372276
Everyone's welcome here! We should all have fun.

>> No.51372663

>>51372357

>[Form: Hammer / Range: Engaged / Target: 1#]. Bare-handed brawling that incorporates spirit energy.
>While not [Equipped] with a [Weapon], you are automatically [Equipped] with this [Weapon].

Unarmed does, in fact, seem to be a [Weapon].

>> No.51372740

>>51372663
Huh. That's kind of silly.

Q:[素手]のみを[装備]している状態で《旋風神撃》を宣言した場合、その[素手]が[装備]不可となりますが、直後、別の[素手]を装備しなおすことは可能でしょうか?

A:[素手]は1キャラクターに1つしか[所有・装備]できないものとしてください。

Q: "If Storm Smite is declared while [Equipped] with only [Unarmed], although that [Unarmed] becomes unable to be [Equipped], is it possible to equip a different [Unarmed]?"

A: Every character has only 1 [Unarmed].

So, yeah, I guess you're right. I just assumed.

>> No.51372753

>>51355975

After analyzing Arc Slayer A + Dragon Carrier A and comparing it to Arc Slayer A + Legion A, it seems that the former is still the superior build for consistently demolishing enemy after enemy throughout an entire encounter. Crystal Transformation for [5] is highly cost-effective. [E] and [O] for Precise Adjustment, Yang Style, and Mysteries of Battle are all cost-effective too.

Focused Assault is quite nice, but [5, 5] is too unreliable a cost, and it does not play well with Precise Adjustment.

Kamigakari Anon, would you happen to see any way to improve this triple-target death build?

>>51372740

I assume that you are working on translating the FAQ in time?

>> No.51372781

>>51372753
Nope. It's like a 2000+ line document. Every moment I spend translating that is spent not translating game stuff, and while the FAQ would be nice to have, I just don't have the time to do everything.

>> No.51372784

>>51371161
Dispersal, Body Morph, Shadowrunning Proficiency and the bit on Shift:Hidden all set the appropriate Results to 20, so you could make a similar case for Sacramental Majesty.

>> No.51372790

>>51372753
Do the optimization yourself, faggot.

>> No.51372813

>>51372790
They did and now are asking for an opinion.

>> No.51372826

>>51372813
They're asking how to improve the build, which is something they should do on their own instead of relying on others like a fag.

>> No.51372857

>>51372813
That's not our problem and it's not on topic.

>> No.51372944

>>51372781

Does a [Simple Move] expend a Timing or not? The section on Timings and the section on Move Actions appear to contradict themselves.

How do [Simple Moves] actually work?

Also, I am interested in seeing any new equipment for Time Wizards. Could you please translate and show them?

>> No.51372961

>>51372944
You can only make one [Move Action] during a round. Simple Move doesn't spend any Timings, so you'd keep your Prep, but you can only move 1 square. That's basically it. It's a 5-foot step.

I'll translate them eventually.~

>> No.51372984

I tried to download the PDF from the link in one of the comments, but Mediafire is always a bitch to download from for some reason. It only loads ads or refreshes the page when I click to download. Any other download options?

>> No.51373025

>>51372984
Here you go!

https://mega.nz/#!p5ElQDKD!OXAYObeH5Mj5A2gDO7iWXCwtdLVl3i2V0MLDB1bB-qA

Hopefully that works.

And I'm now off to sleep! If the thread's still up in the morning, I'll answer any questions I see. Thanks for the interest, everyone! I hope you all have fun.

>> No.51373049

>>51373025
Worked like a charm! Thanks Kamigakari Anon!

>> No.51374082

>>51369310

The marebito race has this:

«Otherworldly Magecraft»
Timing : Attack
Range : 7 Sq.
Target : 1#
Cost : [Steps]
Utilizing powerful spells acquired in another world, you crush your opponent with terrifying magic.

What does this actually do?

>> No.51375273

>>51372961

I would also be interested in seeing the divine talker-exclusive weapons, along with the time wizard-exclusive weapons.

>> No.51375353

God hand style translation when?

I want to dragon kick people's asses into the milky way

>> No.51375616

>>51374082
Magical Attack. Deal [Rank: 3] [Magical Damage] to the target (Resist [Halves]).

>>51375353
Hi! Please check out >>51369310 for all your cool expansion book race and style option needs. (God Hand is in Requiem.)

>> No.51375663

>>51375353
>>51375616

As far as I can tell, any God Hand-user is strictly better off taking this talent:

Extension of Self
Timing : Constant
Range : User
Target : User
Cost : None
Through supernatural power or training, any Regalia in your hands is just an extension of your fist.
Passive Effect. Once the target has acquired «Extension of Self», they may use [Style: God Hand / Type: A] Style Talents regardless of what [Weapon] they have [Equipped]. Also, they may change each [Style: God Hand / Type: A / Timing: Attack] Style Talent's [Range] to be [Item].

Rather than bothering with actual unarmed attacks.

What am I missing here?

>> No.51375780

>>51375663
There's also weapons like Guard, which count as unarmed. There's quite a few more of them in later books, even, so it's not so bad. There's even a Godforged Regalia that can count as unarmed.

Otherwise, I'm not 100% sure why one would use the actual unarmed weapon. Even if they made a point of also using Spirit Armament, because they couldn't use either Material Synthesis or the Arm System, it seems like they'd be missing out on a lot.

There are Talents that deal 'specifically with Unarmed' and don't apply to weapons that 'count as Unarmed' later on, and I'm not super familiar with them yet, but it seems to me kind of a bad deal.

>> No.51375980

>>51375780
Op would you be willing to provide a translation of these meikyuu kingdom supplemental rules found at the end of a replay?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gi50ruzq8jd5pq7/mayokin%20apocalypse%20maiden%20replay.7z?dl=0

I'm really interested in all of the rules, but for the sake of length what the hell do the marriage rules say at 220-7

>> No.51376356

>>51375780
So what you're saying is that we need to have the supplemental materials to be able to have it work well?

>> No.51376409

>>51375980
I don't really know anything about Meikyuu, and I'm actually not terribly good with Japanese as a whole. Kamigakari is more a product of dedication than it is a product of "I can understand this perfectly," because I generally sure can't. It takes me roughly an hour to do a full page. So... I'm gonna have to pass, I'm sorry!

>>51376356
Possibly! There's at least one common talent in Requiem that gives +5 at Damage Calculation when attacking with [Unarmed], but even then it's hard to say it's worth it. Talent slots are at a premium, so I'm not of the mind that playing catch-up with them, when a weapon that counts as unarmed like Guard is just better in... most ways, anyway.

>> No.51378293

Is it just me, or is the Contractor B flagrantly overpowered?

※ «Contract Summon»
Timing : Constant
Range : User
Target : User
Cost : None
Instantly summon and control a divinity you've formed a contract with.
Passive Effect. When the target acquires «Contract Summon», they select one from [Beast・Insectoid・Plant・Mechanical]. By spending 3 {Crest} and 1x [Start], the target may cause a single [Mononoke] with [LV = target's World Influence LV] and [Class = one Class the user selected], and freely control it (this [Mononoke] is referred to as [Bound Primal]). See the Rules Section of this book for more details.

3 {Crest} is not that much considering the amount of {Crest} that can be regained from defeating enemies. This talent is free, and it costs nothing from your spirit pool.

The earlier rules for a [Bound Primal] make it explicit that the Primal receives its own set of timings, which means you are splitting the action economy in half. You have another unit on the field, taking actions, harming and debuffing enemies, and buffing allies.

You can summon stronger and stronger Primals as you gain levels, just with Contractor B's baseline ability. If you thought that your Primal at level 1 was impressive, wait until you reach level 5 and can summon terrifying monsters (with +5 to all active checks and +15 damage if you took Amplify Attacks and Empathic Growth).

What am I missing here?

>> No.51378311

>>51334235
Go back to /pfg/

>> No.51378583

>>51378293
Aren't Mononoke vulnerable to things targeting specific Classes and Mononoke in general? Demon Eyed even have Talent that has almost 70% chance to outright kill Mononoke that aren't bosses.

>> No.51378595

>>51378293
Well, on the flip side, if it dies, you lose basically half of your Talents for the rest of the fight. In my experience, Mononoke generally are high damage but somewhat flimsy, as are characters in general. It was a game of evasion, basically, and if you got hit, nearly half of your HP was knocked off in one swing.

You can of course be careful with it, but there's still the danger of losing it, which is especially bad if you invest heavily in your Primal.

>> No.51378715 [DELETED] 

>>51378583

Most of your enemies will be mononoke who lack anti-mononoke abilities, and even anti-mononoke abilities are not *that* common amongst Godhunters.

>>51378595

I am not so sure the mononoke are that fragile compared to PCs. A level 1 magus Elder Mage probably has 37 hit points. That is not much worse than the hit points of level 1 mononoke.

By the time you reach the level 5 mononoke, one would be hard-pressed to say that the [Bound Primal] is frailer than the PC, even without spending any talents on it.

Also, attacks that are going towards your [Bound Primal] are attacks that are not going towards you and your friends, a classic benefit of having a summon around.

>> No.51378749

>>51378583

Most of your enemies will be mononoke who lack anti-mononoke abilities, and even anti-mononoke abilities are not *that* common amongst Godhunters.

>>51378595

I am not so sure the mononoke are that fragile compared to PCs. A level 1 magus Elder Mage probably has 37 hit points. That is not much better than the hit points of level 1 mononoke.

By the time you reach the level 5 mononoke, one would be hard-pressed to say that the [Bound Primal] is frailer than the PC, even without spending any talents on it.

Also, attacks that are going towards your [Bound Primal] are attacks that are not going towards you and your friends, a classic benefit of having a summon around. I would gladly have the [Bound Primal] soak up attacks. The only time this will be an issue is if enemies are using area- or combat zone-wide attacks.

>> No.51378857

>>51378595

You are correct about the game's math being flimsy in various areas, however.

The game overvalues Initiative, Armor, and Barrier, and to a lesser extent, PD and MD. What you really have to worry about are your main attack statistic (Accuracy or Conjuration, perhaps both given the right gish build), Evasion, and Resist, because base damage numbers from both PCs and monsters are so high that a single hit can turn the tide of battle.

I have not been bringing it up in this thread so far because I was unsure of it, but your testimony vindicates my assessment.

>> No.51378997

>>51378857
I'm not sure I agree per se. I did say it became an evasion game, but with the [Influence] mechanic, it's not the same as other games. Instead, if you ID an enemy, you know exactly which number you need to beat to dodge, every time you're made to dodge. Therefore, when you [Influence], you can make informed decisions on how to swap dice. But sometimes the dice you need to swap aren't there, or you roll badly, or you need dice for Talents. This is where, in my opinion, the game shines, and is the reason it "undervalues" accuracy and evasion and resist. Because it knows even +1 accuracy is a good deal.

High damage numbers make it so you can't take evasion lightly. And even if you do because you have a super armored Dragon Carrier B in your group, it has [Halve] mechanics to reduce armor, too.

>> No.51378998

>>51378749
>anti-mononoke abilities are not *that* common amongst Godhunters.
Additional Abilities for Regalia often give you bonus Rank against specific Classes of Mononoke. Those aren't expensive at all.

>> No.51379142

>>51378997

The higher your Accuracy/Conjuration, Evasion, and Resist, however, the more leeway you have in using [Influence] to get the dice you want in your pool.

With a high Evasion/Resist, you can afford to remove some 5s and 6s from your Reactive Checks to place them in your Spirit pool. With a low Evasion/Resist, you lack such a luxury, which means you have a worse ability to manage your resources, no?

>>51378998

The cheapest such effect possible is from the axe's Engraved Blade, and that applies only to one of eight classes of mononoke. It is hardly cost-effective, and I would never purchase it when I could be upgrading damage or targets directly instead.

It would seem awfully convenient if you were a Beast-focused Contractor B, and your "monsters of the week" just so happened to frequently include NPC Godhunters armed with Beast-slaying regalia.

>> No.51379222

Let us update this >>51355975 build again, then.

Basics:
• World Influence Level: 1
• Race: Cyborg (Cyberdive, Precise Adjustment)
• Stat Type: Martial
• Main Stats: Strength 7, Agility 6, Intellect 1, Will 1, Luck 1
• Main Style: Arc Slayer A (Secrets of the Destroyer, Yang Style, Mysteries of Battle)
• Secondary Style: Contractor B (Contract Summon [Beast])

Items:
• Weapon: Form: Ranged: Firearm, 1300G, plus free Enhancing Modifications, plus Multi-Target for 1500G
• Accessory: Hand: Magatama Bangle, 500G
• Accessory: Lower: Tactical Holster, 1000G
• Accessory: Upper: Jacket, 100G
• Remaining: 600G
• Session Prep: Gain 200G, then buy Protector: Suit: Resist Jacket, 800G

Derived Statistics:
• Accuracy: 8 = 7 Strength + 1 Arc Slayer
• Evasion: 7 = 6 Agility + 2 Arc Slayer - 1 Resist Jacket
• Conjuration: 1 Intellect
• Resistance: 1 Will
• Insight: 1 Luck
• PD: 18 = 4 Arc Slayer + 4 Firearm + 4 Enhancing Modifications + 2 Magatama Bangle + 4 Tactical Holster
• MD: 1 half Intellect rounded up
• Initiative: 14 = 6 Agility + 5 base + 7 Arc Slayer - 2 Firearm - 2 Resist Jacket
• HP: 46 = 7 Strength + 1 Will + 3 thrice level + 35 Arc Slayer
• Armor: None
• Barrier: 3 Resist Jacket

For [E] and [O], the character can activate Precise Adjustment, Yang Style, and Mysteries of Battle. This gives +1 Accuracy, +1 Rank, and +10 damage.

In other words, this character can, on a regular basis, target three enemies within 8 squares at a total of Accuracy +9, Rank +1, and PD +28.

On top of all this, they are doing battle alongside a level 1 Beast mononoke of their choice. As they gain levels, they gain access to stronger and stronger Beast mononoke as well.

Tally ho.

>> No.51379284

>>51379142
>It would seem awfully convenient if you were a Beast-focused Contractor B, and your "monsters of the week" just so happened to frequently include NPC Godhunters armed with Beast-slaying regalia.
I would say that your enemies actually researching you and preparing to deal with your huge killer pet isn't highly improbable. On the contrary, it is expected if you are dealing with competent opposition.

>It is hardly cost-effective, and I would never purchase it when I could be upgrading damage or targets directly instead.
This is PC perspective. NPCs operate in different way.

Also, I am not sure about your point. Yes, rising defensive stats mean you are safer. That's their purpose. The same can be said about accuracy. Every RPG that has variable attack and defense scores requires you to get attack bonuses to be reliable.

>> No.51379339

>>51379222
One thing I'll point out is that you can only equip two Accessories, no matter what slot they are. They just cannot also be the same slot.

>> No.51379407

>>51379284

If the GM has to resort to highly specific counters to a certain build, then it is a clear sign that the build stretches the balance points of the game.

As far as I can tell, the Contractor B disrupts the action economy of the game heavily in the player's favor.

>Also, I am not sure about your point.
The point is that the game overvalues Initiative, Armor, and Barrier, and to a lesser extent, PD and MD. Accuracy/Conjuration, Evasion, and Resist (and sometimes Insight) are the statistics that will carry you through battle.

>> No.51379441

>>51379339

Put on the Jacket outside of battle.

>> No.51379951

>>51379407
You are probably right that having a semi-permament summon with his own actions and very good stats is mighty strong if there are no specific downsides. I am just saying that it still has weak point, mainly that it can be slain invalidating half of your abilities (so really, that is killing one-and-a-half party member) and it has vulnerabilities that can be exploited.

>> No.51380175

>>51369310
Godly. Do you know if they're still releasing more expansions and whatnot?

>> No.51381263 [DELETED] 

>>51376409
Well that's somewhat disappointing.

>> No.51381357

>>51380175
I do not know. The last release, even, was a strange one. It was a Cthulhu-inspired book, which was mostly a replay and had some Cthulhu-related items (like having a Necronomicon in Form: Magic weapons) as well as Cthulhu-related Mononoke (indeed, Cthulhu itself has stats!). It was unusual compared to the other expansions.

However in True Regalia of Chronos, there are NPC characters that possess Styles that as of yet have no stats or anything related to them data-wise. There are: Treasure Hunter, Aura Breaker, Mastery, Soul Eater, Last Creator, and Enigmatic.

If they intend on releasing new books to cover these Styles, and they stick to 3 a book, that means two more books are coming. The prospects for that seem fairly decent, as the core book and the first three expansions just within the past month or two got a reprint, which means R&R/Arclight is still supporting the line.

>> No.51381619

>>51376409
Well that's disappointing but eh.

Keep up the good work hopefully the fisting style makes more sense with more materials.

>> No.51381730

>>51381619
God Hand works great, if you use weapons like Guard! It's just like equipping brass knuckles or gloves or the like.

>> No.51381759

>>51381730
But muh pure unarmed gimmick

>> No.51384323

>>51381759
It is a pretty strong and popular image, though. After all, martial aritsts using pure skill and training to win swordfights with only fists is a very anime thing.

>>51381730
Kamigakari Anon, what are your favourite Styles or builds? Does anyone else have any fun ideas for characters?

>> No.51384634

>>51384323
Hmm... I like everything, really. I think I probably wouldn't make an Arc Slayer A character, because it just isn't interesting to me. Other than that, though, I like just about everything in some way.

I have already made a few test characters. One was a Dragon Lord that had Legacy User A / Dark Hunter A. She was from a family in Italy who worked for the Vatican as Templars, and being a Dragon Lord, her ancestor was actually St. George's Dragon. Mysteriously, when she was brought before Ascalon, the sword that supposedly slew her ancestor, it resonated with her, and she Awakened.

- Dragonpulse Shift
- Power of the Elemental Dragons (Element: Toxin)
- Shadowstrike
- Regalia of Ruin

She hit fairly hard, particularly since her Godforged Regalia dealt an additional +10 damage against non-Boss Mononoke, but I just liked the image of her being from a family typically viewed as "negative" due to their association with St. George's Dragon, then having things be reversed. If she had been in a campaign, eventually I would've taken Matched Pair and got her a throwing Godforged and named it The Dragon's Tooth or something.

>> No.51386375

You do good work, and get a bump for justice.

>> No.51387042

>>51384323
Godhand and dragon carrier, dragon lord

Godhand, godhand, dragonlord,

Godhand, chronos

God hand, elder mage

>> No.51387089

>>51379951

>I am just saying that it still has weak point, mainly that it can be slain invalidating half of your abilities (so really, that is killing one-and-a-half party member)
This is not a downside. A [Bound Primal] is as durable as, if not more durable, than you. Whatever will kill a [Bound Primal] is liable to kill you outright, and it is better to have a summon dead than you dead. If you are ranged while your mononoke is melee, you do not even have to be caught in the same area attacks.

>it has vulnerabilities that can be exploited.
Again, this requires specific, hard counters from the GM.

>>51384634

Analyzing the strengths of Godforged Regalia builds compared to "make another attack"-spam builds, Mysteries of Battle-spam builds, or Contractor B builds would be easier if we had access to the Godforged Regalia options, obviously.

How well would you say your build fared compared to a non-Godforged Regalia striker, such as >>51355975 or >>51379222?

>> No.51387234

>>51381730
I decided to have some fun with this...

Basics:
• World Influence Level: 1
• Race: Human (Spirit Control, Close Combat Proficency)
• Stat Type: Martial
• Main Stats: Strength 5, Agility 5, Intellect 1, Will 3, Luck 2
• Main Style: God Hand A (Enlightenment, Smiting Wave)
• Secondary Style: Arc Slayer A (Secrets of the Destroyer, Yang Style )
• Cover: Normal Student (+2 Str, +1 Will checks)

Sub-stats
PD 3
MD 1
Initiative 10
HP 11

Items:
• Weapon: Hammer, Guard. 1300G, plus free Briar of Rivets, plus Pulverize Trigger for 1500G (2800/5000)
• Protector (Suit) Reinforced Formalware 300G (3100/5000)
• Accessory (Hand): Magatama Bangle, 500G (3600/5000)
• Accessory (Feet): High-tech Shoes, 1000G (4600/5000)
• Remaining: 400G

Derived Statistics:
• Accuracy: 8 = 5 Strength + 2 God Hand + 1 CC Prof
• Evasion: 6 = 5 Agility + 1 God Hand - 1 Suit
• Conjuration: 1 Intellect
• Resistance: 3 Will
• Insight: 2 Luck
• PD: 18 = 3 Str + 4 God Hand + 2 CC Prof + 5 Guard + 2 Briar + 2 Magatama
• MD: 1 Int
• Initiative: 14 = 6 Agility + 5 base + 6 God Hand + 2 Shoes - 4 Guard - 1 Suit
• HP: 49 = 5 Strength + 3 Will + 3 thrice level + 38 God Hand
• Armor: 2 Suit
• Barrier: (Nope)

Foes who fail evasion lose 2 hp


Seems reasonable, actually. Not the kind of raw damage powerhouse as >>51379222 (which I used as a quick template) but you've got spirit pool manipulation thanks to being human, which makes the heavy use of evens a little more tolerable. Nonzero chance to strike at +3 Rank and knockback foes. And that pulverize trigger to smash obstacles.

Seems fun.

>> No.51388010

>>51372857
>it's not on topic.
In what strange world could that be true?

>> No.51388161

>>51387234
Init should be 13 and evasion 5 because I was dumb about double checking things.

As a side note... creating a character was FAST. I'm used to D&D, and I've met both slower and quicker character creations, but Kami here really didn't take very long for being a full-fledged (not "light") RPG.

>> No.51388227

>>51387234
>>51388161
aaaaaand I missed "Must have an A and a B" rule.

It's probably a good thing I'm not actually playing right now or anything, I make a ton of mistakes.

>> No.51388250

>>51388227
Aaaaaand you missed that you only need to have A and B if you're picking the same style twice.

>> No.51388277

>>51372753

I'm having fun with Dragon Carrier/Elemental Adept, as you can Transform and then get 3 ranks for a mere [E] by adding Strike/Overlap, with options for more if you have a doubles available.

It all comes out as your origin element too, which means sometimes you'll be doing even more damage.

>> No.51388379

>>51388227
As >>51388250 noted, you need only pick A/B if it's the same Style (Arc Slayer A / Arc Slayer B). If you have two different Styles, you're fine, they can be both A's or B's or mixed!

>> No.51388650

>>51388379
Not that anon, and don't get me wrong because I really love what you've got going here, but personally I did find the chargen a little hard to follow. Would it be terribly out of line to suggest making a quick guide or cheat sheet for chargen?

>> No.51388671

Elemental adept's ultimate "Element Master" doesn't apply to weapon attacks apparrently. Going into this with a physical leaning I was like "Okay, must be for mages" but they use weapons too, right?

Does this only work with unarmed, or what?

>> No.51388695

>>51388650
I'll see what I can do!

>>51388671
It means it only applies to Talents (regardless of whether that's physical or magical), rather than making a 'basic attack' with just your weapon.

So if you use Strike from Elemental Adept, it applies. Or similar other things.

>> No.51388700

>>51381759
>>51384323

Presumably, you could use the reflavoring rules to reflavor a Guard into a simple ring or bracelet, or something along such lines.

>>51387234

One issue I see here is your build is woefully lacking in multitarget capacities. All four of the sample encounters in the GMing section include anywhere from four to *seven* distinct enemy units, depending on the number of players, so being able to target multiple enemies is a crucial skill.

Humans are also a bit shabby as martials, since starting with only Strength 5 at most is a little inconvenient.

If I *had* to build a single-target-focused God Hand A + Arc Slayer A, I would have the character be a Strength 7 cyborg with Precise Adjustment, Swift Art, and Mysteries of Battle. Precise Adjustment would be [O] for +1 Rank, and Swift Art and Mysteries of Battle are [E] for +1 Accuracy and +10 damage.

At level 1, this would simply be an inferior version of the builds in >>51355975 and >>51379222. At level 2, the single-target build vindicates itself by picking up Yang Style for another +1 Accuracy and +10 damage for another [E], although it is still a single-target schmuck who cannot deal with multiple foes.

>> No.51388715

>>51388695

Ah, excellent. Does that mean that weapon statistics don't apply to talents?

I was looking at the combat section and it seemed it referred to all forms of attack actions as 'weapon attacks', and was kind of confusing.

So if there's a distinction between weapon attacks and talent attacks, you know where I'm going?

>> No.51388729

>>51388715
They use your weapon for stats. It's literally just the difference between swinging your sword, and swinging your sword while it's on fire. The first is a [Weapon Attack]. The second is a Talent. Both use the same data, except the Talent will generally be better.

>> No.51388732

>>51388695
>I'll see what I can do!

Thank you!

>> No.51388803

>>51388729

Awesome, thanks.

>> No.51388859

>>51388715
As a bit more embellishment, because I'm now recalling I got kind of confused by that as well...

The reason the separation exists is because a lot of Talents grant you an extra [Weapon Attack], which is generally going to be inferior to a Talent. It's actually fairly liberal with handing out extra or even multiple Weapon Attacks (such as Legion A's Focused Attack), so the system keeps "basic attacks" like that separated out so they don't get too crazy. ...Is my thinking anyway. (I admit the term could be better, anyway.)

>> No.51389003

>>51388277

This is a probably a good counterpart build to >>51355975. Let us see what can be done with it.

Basics:
• World Influence Level: 1
• Race: Cyborg (Cyberdive, Precise Adjustment)
• Stat Type: Martial
• Main Stats: Strength 7, Agility 6, Intellect 1, Will 1, Luck 1
• Main Style: Dragon Carrier A (Crystal Transformation)
• Secondary Style: Elemental Adept A (Elemental Burst, Strike, Overlap)

Items:
• Weapon: Form: Spear: Spear, 800G, plus free Sacrament Spearhead, plus Whirlwind Spear for 1500G
• Protector: Suit: Defense Vest, 2000G
• Accessory: Hand: Magatama Bangle, 500G
• Accessory: Upper: Jacket, 100G
• Remaining: 100G
• Session Prep: Gain 200G, then buy Accessory: Head: Kevlar Head, 300G

Derived Statistics:
• Accuracy: 9 = 7 Strength + 1 Dragon Carrier + 1 Spear
• Evasion: 8 = 6 Agility + 1 Dragon Carrier + 1 Defense Vest
• Conjuration: 2 = 1 Intellect + 1 Dragon Carrier
• Resistance: 1 Will
• Insight: 1 Luck
• PD: 14 = 4 half Strength rounded up + 2 Dragon Carrier + 4 Spear + 2 Sacramental Spearhead + 2 Magatama Bangle
• MD: 3 = 1 half Intellect rounded up + 2 Dragon Carrier
• Initiative: 11 = 6 Agility + 5 base + 5 Dragon Carrier - 2 Spear - 3 Defense Vest
• HP: 46 = 7 Strength + 1 Will + 3 thrice level + 41 Dragon Carrier
• Armor: None
• Barrier: 4 = 3 Defense Vest + 1 Kevlar Head

Just like my original build, this can spend [5] at the start of combat for +1 Rank for the whole fight, and [O] on any given attack for another +1 Rank. Both builds also target three enemies at a time.

Whereas my build spends [E] for +1 Accuracy and +10 damage, your build spends [E] for +2 Rank and an element.

I would say that our builds are roughly equal, with my build having ever so slightly more offense, with yours having more defense.

These builds are probably among Kamigakari's top-tier pure offense builds. Obviously, however, this build could be improved even more by swapping out Dragon Carrier A for Contractor B.

>> No.51389004

>>51388732
I'm actually pretty sleepy tonight, so I don't think I can do anything too crazy. So here's a quick summary...

Step 1: Determine World Influence LV. Unless your GM wants you to start higher, this is basically going to be 1.

Step 2: Pick your race. Now that you've done that, look at their three listed Stat Types, Martial, Utility, and Arcane. Pick one of those, then add 1 point to any of the stats. Record them on your sheet.

Step 3: Calculate your sub stats as shown.

Step 4: Pick two Styles, and a Type for each. If you pick the same Style (like Arc Slayer / Arc Slayer), they have to be a different Type (A / B). If your Styles are not the same, then you can be A / A or B / B or whatever you want.

Step 5: One of these Styles will be your Main. List that one first. Then, take that one's Combat Modifiers, and add them to your Main Stats obtained from your Race pick, and your Sub Stats. This gives you your not quite final "Combat Stats" which will be further modified by equipment.

Step 6: You get your Styles' ※ marked Talents for free (there's one each). Then you pick two Talents from your Race. Then you pick two Talents (total, not each) from your Styles. At the end, you'll have six Talents.

Step 7: Buy stuff. You have 5000G to spend. When you buy a weapon, you get a ◇ marked Additional Effect from its Form for free. You can buy protectors and accessories, too, but not gear/consumables. Instead, pick a Hunter Set.

Step 8: Pick a Cover.

Step 9: Do the random roll tables at the end of the Player Section.

Step 10: Have fun!

Does that help?

>> No.51389292

>>51389004

>Then you pick two Talents (total, not each) from your Styles.
Can these not also be from your race, or from common talents?

>Step 7: Buy stuff. You have 5000G to spend.
Is it not technically 5200G, for all intents and purposes, given that purchases can be made during [Session Prep]?

Also, I am unclear on your translation of "When you first acquire this talent..." talents such as Element Burst, Element Garb, and Contract Summon. Is a character allowed to reselect their choices upon leveling up, as per the PC advancement rules, or is that impossible due to the talents in question being ※?

>> No.51389473

>>51389292

> Can these not also be from your race, or from common talents?
You can, but 1) sleepy 2) quick typing

> Is it not technically 5200G, for all intents and purposes, given that purchases can be made during [Session Prep]?
I suppose, but PC creation itself is during [Session Prep], where you are also buying things for your PC. It feels a little weird to have rules like "you get 200G after creation" and "you can't buy Additional Effects other than those marked with a ◇ until after creation" unless it's going to prohibit you from buying more things until the session starts.

> Also, I am unclear on your translation of "When you first acquire this talent..."
You cannot change talents with a ※ when advancing, so they're effectively locked in. However I guess if you use a Kushimitama to do Origin Awakening (as per Requiem expansion) twice, you could redo the choice.

>> No.51389582

>>51389003

Any particular reason why the spear preference? Multitarget and accuracy is nice, but the lower PD is annoying.

I'm more of a swords person myself.

>> No.51389721

>>51389473

>It feels a little weird to have rules like "you get 200G after creation" and "you can't buy Additional Effects other than those marked with a ◇ until after creation" unless it's going to prohibit you from buying more things until the session starts.
You did say in >>51369838 that there was nothing stopping this. Indeed, it is necessary for PCs starting at a higher level, such that they can purchase non-◇ additional effects.

>>51389582

>Multitarget
This is the key. If you have a look at the four sample encounters in the GMing section, you will see that, depending on the number of players, every battle is supposed to have anywhere from four to seven distinct enemy units.

With this in mind, tell me, would you rather target three enemies at a time with your massive PD, massive Rank attacks, or target only one enemy with marginally higher PD?

>> No.51389783

So, in Requiem, there are mentions of a [Cover 2] list, and a [Cover 3] list, but they don't seem to be in the pastebin. Are they not translated yet?

>> No.51389815

>>51389004
>Does that help?

It does, thank you.

>> No.51389840

>>51389721
I did say that. But also the FAQ says the following

Q:「2:[武装システム]の確認」に「[初期作成]時は、◇の[追加効果]しか選択できません」とありますが、これは「[初期作成]時に自動取得する[追加効果]は◇しか選択できないが、[G]や[素材]を消費して購入する[追加効果]は自由に選択できる」のか、「[初期作成]時は自動取得・[G]や[素材]を消費しての購入、どちらにおいても◇の[追加効果]しか選択できない」のか、どちらでしょうか?
A:後者です。例え[世界干渉LV(LV):10]のキャラクターであっても、[初期作成]時は◇の[追加効果]しか取得できません。ただし、[武装システム]は[戦闘外]ならいつでも適用できるので、[G]を余らせた状態で[シナリオ導入]を迎え、即座に◇以外の[追加効果]を適用することに関しては問題ありません。

In summation, "even if you're starting at level 10, you still can only buy ◇ marked Additional Effects", though it goes on to say you can buy things while out of combat once you begin episode introductions.

So, they at least stick their guns on this rule.

>>51389815
I'm glad! I wish you many Step 10s.

>> No.51389875

>>51389840

In other words, the moment episode introductions start, everyone goes on a shopping spree.

>> No.51389980

>>51389721

Depends on enemy spacing, number of AoE talents, #/Mononoke Extermination abilities, and the disposition of targets.

Since rank multiplies 'maginal' increases in PD, I donno. I'm hearing 'AoE damage gets people killed' in the back of my head from playing Darkest Dungeon recently.

>> No.51390050

>>51389980

>Depends on enemy spacing, number of AoE talents
>disposition of targets
The builds in >>51355975, >>51379222, and >>51389003 all target 3 enemies within 7 squares, essentially at-will. This means that each build is able to target many enemies on a regular basis.

>#/Mononoke Extermination abilities
Since these work only once per combat, you want to capitalize on them by targeting as many enemies as possible. Suppose there are three mouki ×10 and four ratatosks on the field. By targeting the three mouki with such an extermination ability, you can take all of them out instantaneously.

>Since rank multiplies 'maginal' increases in PD
You seem to be mistaken. Rank does not actually increase flat modifiers to PD. This is why Target # is far more important to high-offense builds than marginal increases to PD.

>> No.51390264

>>51389980
Rank has nothing to do with PD bonuses.
1 Rank is equal to 6 damage at most on a normal hit and 10 damage on a critical hit.

>> No.51390512

>>51389840
Could I get an answer for >>51389783 this?

>> No.51390544

>>51390050
>>51390264

Ah well then. Spears are unequivocally the best melee weapons then. Huh.

>> No.51390589

>>51390544

Kamigakari has the single most fascinating resource management subsystem I have ever seen in an RPG, but it has many balance flaws that subtract from the game's integrity.

For instance, Target # is the single most important weapon statistic, which means that spears and firearms reign supreme for physical weapons (notice how hammers are awfully lackluster). Likewise, the game's "tanking" mechanics are few and unreliable, support abilities cost more than equivalent self-buffing abilities, and debuffs are marginal at best... so in almost all cases, the best builds for actually accomplishing things in combat are pure-offense striker builds.

It is a bit of a shame.

>> No.51391074

>>51390589
>which means that spears and firearms reign supreme for physical weapons

Never thought a japanese game would be so realistic.

On a related note, is there a way to fix the balance problems?

>> No.51391107

>>51391074

I am not so certain. I would have to get back to you on such a thing after proper testing.

I am absolutely certain that the game's balance is weighed heavily in favor of high-offense, multitargeting PCs, but solutions to shift the metagame away from this will be tricky.

>> No.51391161

Kamigakari Anon, what is the purpose of the Arc Slayer A's Dark Killing Arts, if Murder Method already kills mononoke in numbered mobs anyway?

>> No.51391233

>>51391107
Ok, so I couldn't play the game yet but on paper it does look like #Target is a cheap way of multiplicating your damage. I think that giving some kind of penalty for every additional target could help this. Accuracy, defense checks, damage, initiative... I am not sure. Talents widening your range already cost something. Dunno about rising armor/HP values, that could slow combat down too much.

>> No.51391303

>>51391161
he's the translater, not the playtester or designer

>> No.51391354

>>51391303

I am aware of this. I wonder if there was a mistranslation or some hidden function that failed to have been translated, as in the case of Shadow Wind.

>> No.51391437

>>51390589
That painfully reminds me of another RPG set in a modern world with empowered characters fighting similarly empowered enemies while relying on their bonds to resist the corrupting influence of the source of their powers, which also fell victim to the SRS curse.

>> No.51391537

>>51372238
>>51372663
>>51372740
So to put this simply, its like deku from boku no hero academia. You cripple yourself to do massive damage

>> No.51391624

>>51391437
Shards empowering Godhunters aren't exactly corrupting. They make you worse if you already have been evil, at best. That said, are you talking about Double Cross? Does it have similar problems?

>> No.51391644

Moving along to higher-level builds, let us have a look at a level 2 multitarget striker. I think it goes to show how dominant such builds are when this character has God Hand for a main style, yet is best off with a firearm.

Basics:
• World Influence Level: 2
• Race: Human (Adaptive Capability [Strength and Will], Hidden Talent)
• Stat Type: Martial
• Main Stats: Strength 7, Agility 5, Intellect 1, Will 5, Luck 2
• Main Style: God Hand A (Enlightenment, Extension of Self, Swift Art)
• Secondary Style: Arc Slayer A (Secrets of the Destroyer, Mysteries of Battle, Yang Style)

Items:
• Weapon: Form: Ranged: Firearm, 1300G, plus free Enhancing Modifications, plus Multi-Target for 1500G
• Protector: Suit: Resist Jacket, 2000G
• Accessory: Hand: Magatama Bangle, 500G
• Accessory: Lower: Tactical Holster, 1000G
• Accessory: Upper: Jacket, 100G
• Remaining: 100G
• Session Prep: Gain 200G

Derived Statistics:
• Accuracy: 9 = 7 Strength + 2 God Hand
• Evasion: 7 = 5 Agility + 1 God Hand + 1 Defense Vest
• Conjuration: 1 Intellect
• Resistance: 5 Will
• Insight: 2 Luck
• PD: 18 = 4 God Hand + 4 Firearm + 4 Enhancing Modifications + 2 Magatama Bangle + 4 Tactical Holster
• MD: 1 = 1 half Intellect rounded up
• Initiative: 11 = 5 Agility + 5 base + 6 God Hand - 2 Firearm - 3 Defense Vest
• HP: 56 = 7 Strength + 5 Will + 6 thrice level + 38 God Hand
• Armor: None
• Barrier: 3 Defense Vest

This character can pay [E] and [E] to activate Swift Art and Yang Style to boost their Accuracy to +11, and deal a total of PD +38 damage. If they can spare [6], they can add +1 Rank with Enlightenment; with a [4, 4] instead, they can add +2 Ranks with Secrets of the Destroyer.

Still, I am not so sure how well this build performs compared to the level 2 versions of the cyborgs in >>51355975, >>51379222, and >>51389003.

>>51391437

Could you please elucidate your point?

>> No.51391776

>>51391644

It is clear that Kamigakari's metagame is heavily slanted towards multitarget, high-offense PCs. Spears and firearms are not the only way to accomplish this; a Shadow Hunter A can use Shadow Double to lead into Elder Mage A's Grand Spell Invocation (better with Concept Materialization) or Time Wizard B's Kairos Disaster.

By higher levels, things get *truly* stupid with a multitarget striker combined with Contractor B, Amplify Attacks, Empathic Growth, and Spirit Sunder.

Consider a level 5 Contractor B. Look at the level 5 yato-no-kami, annelidist, yamabiko (yahoooo~), or tank. These creatures are absolutely ludicrous on their own. Amplify Attacks gives them +15 damage, Empathic Growth grants a +5 bonus to all Active Checks, and Spirit Sunder lets them add their highest combat statistic to any ally's damage calculation.

On top of this, the PC is probably taking high-damage, multitarget potshots with their own actions. The PC has spent zero slots on level 3+ talents or high talents, so they will probably use those slots to supercharge themselves.

How is this remotely fair? This is absolutely outrageous.

>> No.51391778

>>51391624
>>51391644
Well, Encroachment and Crest are similar in that if they are too high/low at the end of the session, you lose your character and bonds basically extend the limit.

Double Cross also suffers from poorly conceived mechanics.
Its powers were designed around the assumption that HP are meaningful. But a Double Cross PC can keep reviving as long as its Encroachment remains below 100 or as long as it has Loises to burn.
Due to the recommended/intended session length, this means that the only way you can lose your character is by accumulating too much Encroachment.
Now, defensive powers cost only marginally less Encroachment than an average Resurrection, and do not even reliably keep the enemies in the pre-made scenarios from one-shotting you, providing essentially no benefit while reducing your capacity for meaningful actions, because you get so few powers in the beginning that you have to focus all of them in a single action to make it useful.
This leaves two viable playstyles:
- full-on glass cannon, focusing solely on making the biggest attacks possible or
- supporter, giving the glass cannon the extra dice and reduced Critical Value needed to one-shot enemies.

>> No.51391878

Now, one might point out that against aramitama and bosses, multitarget builds are somewhat less effective. By the time the small fry are dead, the extra targets will be wasted, because only the aramitama/boss is left.

However, this is not that great an issue, because multitarget builds are only marginally worse at single-target damage than even a dedicated sword- or axe-user. Adding to Target # is simply that cost-effective for spears and firearms.

Also, Kamigakari Anon, the wight in the bestiary is missing its statistics.

>> No.51392085

>>51391878
So, essentially:

>Lowering the cost of support and defensive/tanking abilities
>Increasing cos of abilities that add # of targets
>Alternatively, giving "single-target" weapons boosts to damage or alternate ways to increase the Target#

>> No.51392093

>>51392085
If some weapons have target multipliers, weapons without them may as well have damage multipliers.

>> No.51392297

>>51392093
That would be just excessive. It is better to make multiattacks not as cheap and reliable

>> No.51392332

>>51392085

It really irks me how self-buffs are significantly cheaper and/or more effective than ally-buffs. Compare the Dragon Carrier A's Crystal Transformation to the Elemental Adept A's default talent.

The Contractor B also needs to be given its own, distinct, sanely-statted [Bound Primal], with a progression from levels 1 to 20. Perhaps it could be customized with various options. The Contractor B is the single most broken style in the entire system otherwise.

>> No.51392729

>>51391776
Git gud you casual faggot.

>> No.51392921

>>51392093
add a pinch, not a pound. Otherwise, you run the risk of ruining everything.

Systems are extremely susceptible to butterfly effects, and any "Simple" change is pretty likely to cause one.

>> No.51392976

Hey, kamigakari anon, do you plan to put whatever changes and re-translations made into an updated translation PDF?

I'm really interested in the system, but i'd rather wait until we have a really solid version to actually get into using it.

>> No.51393144

>>51392729
>casual
>2hu

>> No.51393181

>>51393144
>Implying 2hufag isn't a turbocasual
>Implying he isn't also a secondary

>> No.51393243

>>51393181
pic related

>>51392921
Some system are. I personally think that making defensive Talents stronger (bigger bonuses, smaller cost) and making multitarget attacks less reliable and more expensive (penalties to accuracy or damage or initiative or whatever or additional Timings spend or something) would be a better idea than just cranking up damage even more.

That's just whiteroom theorycrafting, though. I am actually curious if you can be a competent damage dealer with just one offensive style and the second focused on defense.

>> No.51393350

Is it just me, or does the "once per combat" (rather than once per round) restriction on Kairos Coffin (Time Wizard B) seem kind of... lame? Unless it lasts more than the round it was cast in, of course.

>> No.51393380

>>51393243
Yeah. Personally, i don't think there should be such a clear cut winner either.

Lowering the self reliance across the board is probably the starting point. Small shifts, at first. Multitarget needs nerfed, buffing others needs buffed and self buffs nerfed. Unless they stack, at which point just even em out that way the totals don't change, but they aren't wholly self reliant. Contractors probably need altered wholesale, but there are some small changes like nerfing their summons that could work short term. Defensive stuff needs to actually do something comparatively to the damage numbers, but severely hamper your ability to actually deal damage. If you can hard tank and still deal large amounts of damage in kind, there needs to be a cost there somewhere as well.

But before all that, we need to get this as clearly translated as possible. Its entirely possible we're missing some part to the picture. Perhaps something in errata, perhaps something in the core rules.

>> No.51393510

>>51393243
C A S U A L

>> No.51393536

>>51393510
Is there a point to you flinging shit at him, or is it solely to appease your ego?

People are trying to discuss this seriously, and 2hu is actually contributing a fair amount.

Keep the /pfg/ meme's over there. This is a comfy community so far and we don't need that toxicity.

>> No.51393578

>>51393536
>toxicity

gb2 reddit

>> No.51394413 [DELETED] 

Not trying for the system stress power builds, just something I think would be fun

Basics:
• World Influence Level: 1
• Race: Magus (Attack Magic, Flight Medium)
• Stat Type: Arcane
• Main Stats: Strength 1, Agility 1, Intellect 7, Will 4, Luck 3 (+1 Any)
• Main Style: Elder Mage A (Grand Spell Invocation, Detonate Spell)
• Secondary Style: Time Wizard B (Kairos Coffin, Kairos Bleed)
• Cover: Honors Student (+1 Agility/Intellect/Luck Checks)

Sub-stats
PD 1
MD 4
Initiative 6
HP 8

Items:
• Weapon: Form: Magic, Focus. 2000G. Free Automatic Chant, Glowing Spirit for 1500g (3500/5000)
• Protector (Suit): Reinforced Formal Wear. 300G (3800/5000)
• Accessory (Hand): Stylish Watch. 300G (4100/5000)
• Accessory (Head/Upper/Lower): Charm. 500G (4600/5000)
• Remaining: 400G

Derived Statistics:
• Accuracy: 1 Str
• Evasion: 1 = 1 Agi + 1 Elder Mage - 1 Suit
• Conjuration: 8 = 7 Int + 1 Elder Mage
• Resistance: 6 = 4 Will + 2 Elder Mage
• Insight: 4 = 3 Luck + 1 Elder Mage
• PD: 1 base
• MD: 15 = 4 base + 4 Elder Mage + 7 Weapon
• Initiative: 12 = 6 base + 7 Elder Mage - 1 Weapon - 1 Suit + 1 Watch
• HP: 37 = 8 base + 29 Elder Mage
• Armor: 3 = 2 Suit + 1 Charm
• Barrier: 1 Charm

1/combat +1 Rank to magical attack

a "Black Mage" caster with a lot of nova options. Technical highlights include using flight to show up places and manipulate spirit, Instant Ritual into Kairos Bleed (6,1 to attack 3 targets for Rank 1 MD) or Attack Magic (6,[doubles] to hit 4 targets with rank 2) for some multitarget spread and... yeah if Grand Spell Invocation ever fires off it's going to be hilarious, but that's any Elder Mage A. I really like that the build wants both 6's and 1's as well as miscellaneous giving a lot of interesting choices for influence. (I have a feeling I'm going to like Time Wizard in general for tinkering since it actually hungers for 1's).

Next I'll probably see what I come up with for the support flipside...

>> No.51394473

Fooling around with character creation a little more, not trying to make max power builds, but seeing if something with reasonable force flows naturally.

Basics:
• World Influence Level: 1
• Race: Magus (Attack Magic, Flight Medium)
• Stat Type: Arcane
• Main Stats: Strength 1, Agility 1, Intellect 7, Will 4, Luck 3 (+1 Any)
• Main Style: Elder Mage A (Grand Spell Invocation, Instant Ritual)
• Secondary Style: Time Wizard B (Kairos Coffin, Kairos Bleed)
• Cover: Honors Student (+1 Agility/Intellect/Luck Checks)

Sub-stats
PD 1
MD 4
Initiative 6
HP 8

Items:
• Weapon: Form: Magic, Focus. 2000G. Free Automatic Chant, Glowing Spirit for 1500g (3500/5000)
• Protector (Suit): Reinforced Formal Wear. 300G (3800/5000)
• Accessory (Hand): Stylish Watch. 300G (4100/5000)
• Accessory (Head/Upper/Lower): Charm. 500G (4600/5000)
• Remaining: 400G

Derived Statistics:
• Accuracy: 1 Str
• Evasion: 1 = 1 Agi + 1 Elder Mage - 1 Suit
• Conjuration: 8 = 7 Int + 1 Elder Mage
• Resistance: 6 = 4 Will + 2 Elder Mage
• Insight: 4 = 3 Luck + 1 Elder Mage
• PD: 1 base
• MD: 15 = 4 base + 4 Elder Mage + 7 Weapon
• Initiative: 12 = 6 base + 7 Elder Mage - 1 Weapon - 1 Suit + 1 Watch
• HP: 37 = 8 base + 29 Elder Mage
• Armor: 3 = 2 Suit + 1 Charm
• Barrier: 1 Charm

1/combat +1 Rank to magical attack

I think I'm going to like futzing around with Time Wizard: The ability to sink 1's into talents seems pretty great for having the freedom to influence bad rolls. And Instant Ritual + Kairos Bleed... fun times Helps Attack Magic too. And of course pulling off a Grand Spell Invocation seems awesome but literally any Elder Mage A does that.

I think I'll probably mess with an Elder Mage B/Time Wizard healer/support next.

>> No.51394794

>>51392976
This sorta got lost in the tide, but if anyone can answer it, i'd be appreciative.

Whether kamigakari anon is the one that compiles the new translations and changes into an updated PDF or not, does anyone plan to once the wrinkles in the translation are figured out?

>> No.51395094

>>51390512
Oh, sorry! Yeah, if you don't see something, it's not translated yet. Everything on the pastebin is in progress.

>>51391161
Numbered mobs might not be the only thing you target. If there's a Mouki x10 and a Yato-no-Gami next to it, the Mouki x10 will be murdered, and the Yato will take +10 damage.

>>51392976
I'm intending on releasing a 2.0 at some point, sure. Until then there's an errata document on the pastebin that I'm adding to as people bring up issues.

>> No.51395368

I haven't really been engaging in any discussions on Kamigakari's supposed lack of balance, but it seems to me that the approach taken is... a bit silly, at best.

The builds I've seen (like >>51389003
and so on) are determined to make the most highly efficient, maximum optimized builds possible, and once they "break the system" the cry of unbalanced goes up. This strikes me a bit like trying to balance a pipe on your finger, but choosing to set the point where you balance it at the extreme edge of the pipe, rather than in the middle.

Furthermore, any attempts at suggesting balances from the enemy side (an NPC Godhunter who has anti-Beast Mononoke Talents to counter a summoned Contractor B Primal, for example) has so far been met with "but if the GM has to resort to specific builds, the system is broken!" This seems completely unfair. If a PC's build is deliberately, expressly trying to make a highly specific build to break the system, why should the GM not respond in kind? Assuming that's what makes it fun for both players, then I would absolutely do my best to topple such a build, and in my opinion, GMs always win arms races.

I woke up to a tide of posting about how the "metagame" in Kami is so very broken, and it disappoints me. I'll try to stick around for questions, but I'm staying out of the other side for now.

>> No.51395369

Scheming: Shadow Double. This seems like a fairly powerful ability provided you can pair it with a devastating attack you'd like to ignore the cost of. (since 2,2 seems like the kind of garbage it would be fairly easy to get via influencing rolls in your favor). Grand Spell Invocation seems like a good choice for that since its [E,6,6] cost is brutal, but so is striking area for Rank 4...

In short, having a ton of fun just poking at what's been provided so far. Thanks, Kamigakari Anon!

>> No.51395416

>>51395094
Sweet. Thanks for the reply kamigakari anon.

>> No.51395736

>>51395368
Dont be to discouraged, most systems suffer from that balancing problem when a pc tries to break a build. I dont see anything wrong with how Kamigakari does it.

>> No.51396017

>>51395416
You're welcome!

>>51395736
It's true. I just get annoyed with "there's only one way to play" type of thinking. Kamigakari does fine without multi-targeting, I think, or even just without slavish devotion to it.

Anyway, I'll be around to answer questions.

>> No.51396077

>>51396017
Question can I make girl Mephistopheles into a real woman and mty waifu with some lawful hot dickings?

>> No.51396200

>>51396017
>>51395368
It's just theorycrafting. On paper multitargeting is an almost free way to multiplicate your damage by 3 without losing much on single target damage. You are not "required" to do it but if you want to be "the best" then you have to include it in some way.

Incidentally, that's how 2hu (anon with Touhou images) works. Always 100% efficiency and only the most optimal way to play.

I am not sure what do I think about Contractor B. I generally dislike pet classes and think that giving someone a powerful pet with its own set of actions is just about a worst way you could do it though.

>> No.51396240

Basics:
• World Influence Level: 1
• Race: Human (Spirit Control, Moment of Hope)
• Stat Type: Arcane
• Main Stats: 2 Strength, 1 Agility, 6 Intellect, 4 Will, 3 Luck
• Main Style: Dark Hunter A (Shadow Breach, Shadowstrike, Shadow Double)
• Secondary Style: Elder Mage A (Grand Spell Invocation)
• Cover: Teacher (+1 to Agility/Intellect/Will checks)

Items:
• Weapon: Magic (Magical Jewel) 1500G, plus free Glowing Spirit (1500/5000)
• Protector (Suit): Caster Suit 1500G (3000/5000)
• Accessory (Head): Mask 1000G (4000/5000)
• Accessory (Lower): Under Armor 1000G (5000/5000)
• Remaining: 0G

Derived Statistics:
• Accuracy: 3 = 2 Strength + 1 Dark Hunter
• Evasion: 2 = 1 Agility + 1 Dark Hunter
• Conjuration: 7 = 6 Intellect + 1 Dark Hunter
• Resistance: 4 Will
• Insight: 3 Luck
• PD: 2 = 1 base + 1 Dark Hunter
• MD: 10 = 3 base + 1 Dark Hunter + 6 Weapon
• Initiative: 14 = 6 base + 10 Dark Hunter - 2 Suit
• HP: 41 = 9 Base + 32 Dark Hunter
• Armor: 5 = 2 Suit + 3 Mask
• Barrier: 5 = 2 Suit + 3 Under Armor

1/round +1# Target on Magical Attack

I know everyone's probably getting tired of 'just for fun character hour' so I'll stop sharing these after this one (or at least wait a while) with the shadowy spellcaster. Honestly, this feels like a decent all-around character, with good potential damage output due to magic-chanting shadows invoking destruction, decent Init, and a surprising durability -- Armor and Barrier may be "overvalued" compared to Evasion and Resistance but shaving 5 points off every attack doesn't seem shabby. And really, who doesn't want to be an uptight, formal schoolteacher who spends off-hours as a masked vigilante hunting down monsters? (the ones who want to cover as a Millionaire to be Batman, that's who.)

>> No.51396338

>>51396017
>I just get annoyed with "there's only one way to play" type of thinking

It's unfortunately common around here.

>> No.51396436

Target:Combat Zone allows you to affect every enemy in Combat Zone simultaneously if I get it right but how does Target:Area actually work? It is rather nebulously explained.

>> No.51396612

>>51396200
Even if you are not going for most optimal play or whatever, basically tripling your damage output by picking the right weapon is ridiculous. If I want to make swordmaster type character, my spear wielding bro shouldn't be killing enemies 3 times as fast just because he picked a different weapon.

Basically, while I agree that balance is not the be all end all, any crunch-heavy game where you can be multiple times stronger than another player just by changing a single option probably needs some tinkering. It feels shit (to me) when you are outperformed so heavily.

>> No.51396905

>>51396077
If you believe hard enough, surely...!

>>51396200
Theorycrafting's fine, and even exciting in some ways!

>>51396436
It is explained a little nebulously. Area works by targeting "an Engagement" and then you can target anything within that Engagement as you wish (meaning, no friendly fire). Additionally, even if people in the Engagement would normally be out of your range, you can still target them, because they are in the Engagement.

However, the above doesn't allow you to extend x# Target abilities. If you have a Range: 5 Sq. / Target: 1# attack, even if you target someone in an Engagement, if that person is 7 Sq. away, they cannot be targeted.

Think of it like this. Range: 5 Sq. / Target: Area is like tossing a grenade. If you toss it at one person in a melee, you're hitting more than just them. Meanwhile Range: 5 Sq. / Target: 1# is like firing an arrow. Even if your target is in a melee, if they're further away than the maximum range of your launched arrow, it doesn't matter, you still can't hit them.

>>51396612
I can see that point of view, at least!

>> No.51397541

>>51341123
>Hell, there are even Heroic Spirits in the expansions.
Which expansion will I need to run the true Fate game of my dreams?

>> No.51397655

>>51397541
Heroic Spirits are in Requiem for the God Soul and have been translated Kamigakari Anon's Pastebin, though I believe the expansion is unfinished so there might be even more that synergizes with them.

>> No.51397805

>>51397655
Oh crap, I must have skimmed over it by accident.
Thanks dear, anon.

>> No.51397933

>>51338776
>>51338822
Sorry that this is a little off-topic, but what do you use to make form-fillable forms?

>> No.51398328

>>51395368

>choosing to set the point where you balance it at the extreme edge of the pipe, rather than in the middle.
If there is a type of combat style that outshines others, then if you choose another combat style, you will always be living in the shadow of the more effective style.

>(an NPC Godhunter who has anti-Beast Mononoke Talents to counter a summoned Contractor B Primal, for example) has so far been met with "but if the GM has to resort to specific builds, the system is broken!"

A build being "balanced" only if the GM works in highly specific counters into battles is a sign that it is not, in fact, balanced.

Contractor B's [Bound Primal] starts off questionably balanced, and it becomes completely game-breaking at the tipping point of level 5 when the stronger monsters open up.

>>51395369

I have proposed an Elder Mage A + Dark Hunter A build using Shadow Double here >>51351630. It falls into the same category of builds spamming multitarget attacks to ruthlessly kill enemies.

While the "payload" is stronger, the [2, 2] for Shadow Double is more difficult to finance than a simple [E] for Yang Style or [E] for Strike.

>> No.51399772

More a japanese rpg in general question.
While in the west the likes of Gary Gygax and dave arneson [DnD] Marc W. Miller [traveller] and Mike Pondsmith [cyberpunk rpg] were major influences on RPGS as we know them
Who were the japanese rpg's equivelant?

>> No.51400113

>>51399772

D&D by way of Sword World. Sword World was a game the Japanese translators of D&D came up with when they got sick of TSR's shit.

TORG was influential in the '90s and most games including Kami still use derivatives of its Act/Scene structure.

Shadowrun as is obvious if you read the Tokyo Nova translation.

Call of Cthulhu has been the most popular tabletop game in Japan for the past couple of years and Kami even has a supplement that tries to cash in on it by letting you fight eldritch horrors.

>> No.51400235

>>51396077
I'd let you if you were my player.

>> No.51400666

>>51396240

This is very similar to the build I had proposed in >>51351630.

Magus is probably better for this build than human.

I would take Elder Mage A for a main style, since that would give you +4 MD, not just +1.

I would purchase a Bodysuit rather than a Caster Suit. That +1 Evasion is extremely useful, since it helps you avoid attacks in the first place.

>> No.51401514

>>51400666
Yeah, the extra MD from Elder Mage would be pretty good, my brain just rebelled for a moment at taking both free to pick talents from the secondary style. Magus gets more ideal stats, but human allows that juicy Spirit Control (and to a lesser extent, Moment of Hope) to make that [2,2] to deliver the Grand Spell Invocation more doable

>> No.51401884

>>51401514

The magus receives another +1 Intelligence for improving the Conjure and MD of those Grand Spell Invocations, and Familiar and Noble Magic for raw numbers on said Grand Spell Invocations.

Time Wizard B could be a good replacement for Elder Mage A, since Kairos Disaster hits the entire Combat Zone.

>> No.51402227

>>51396905
Thanks, I got to Engagements and it became clear.

Also, Withdraw definition on page 247 suddenly references Full Move instead. Is that a leftover from translating it?

>> No.51404233

>>51401884
I guess the question is how much the spirit manipulation works in actual play rather than theorycraft and whether you prefer more powerful Grand Spells or more of them

>> No.51404394

>>51402227
That's weird... I'm not sure why it's like that. A copy-paste error, or maybe I was tired. Anyway, that section should read like this:

A [Move Action] that leaves an [Engagement] and gains distance is called a [Withdraw]. A [Withdraw] can only be performed as the first of its [Timings] during a turn, and then after performing it, all the rest of that [Timing] is spent. Because it is an intensely complex movement to disengage from an enemy, the character takes penalties after moving.

It's essentially the same anyway, but I'll put it in the errata for fixing. Thanks for pointing it out!

>> No.51405698

>>51404233
We do probably need some more actual plays, yeah.

>> No.51406160

Aside from everything I have already covered in this thread, two things that greatly irk me about Kamigakari are:

1. Race and class talents have little variety to them. There are many talents that are an [E] or [O] attack that can be physical for +1 Rank or magical for Rank 2 and Resist half. There are many racial talents that modify Innocents' memories, and many racial talents that give some kind of automatic success on certain rolls. Even beyond these, many talents simply do the same thing overall, just with a slightly different process behind it.

When one compares Kamigakari's talents to those of, say, D&D 4e or Strike!, Kamigakari's talents turn out to be far more same-y.

2. A character's raw statistics are obviously quite important, but I can see no rhyme or reason whatsoever to most races' statistic spreads. "Hanyou have high Luck," "magi have high Intellect," and "cyborgs are either completely lopsided or perfectly well-balanced" are the only themes I can see. Every other race's statistics are totally arbitrary for no good reason.

Kamigakari would have been better off with a standard array for all characters to be distributed as desired.

>>51404233
>>51405698

I imagine that one thing that could be done to tone down the supremacy of high-offense multitarget builds is to emphasize battles against fewer amounts of powerful enemies. Disregard the sample encounters in the book and try encounters with, say, one strong aramitama and two minions.

>> No.51406667

>>51406160
>When one compares Kamigakari's talents to those of, say, D&D 4e or Strike!, Kamigakari's talents turn out to be far more same-y.

This seems to be something of a running theme with SRS(-inspired) games in general.
Kamigakari, Double Cross 3e and Night Wizard 3e all focus on combat, with non-combat ending up as an afterthought (Simple Powers in DX, memory manipulation and auto-successes in Kamigakari) or being left out entirely (NW).
But in spite of this focus, they then forget to make combat interesting on its own. Which is necessary, because there is little in these systems to contextualize combat. They even have a video game-style Fight Whoosh to completely decouple combat from everything else (Warding in DX, Spirit Barriers in Kamigakari and Lunar Caskets in NW).
Since the combat systems aren't really fleshed out, there is little for powers/talents to meaningfully interact with, so they end up pretty same-y.

>> No.51406933

>>51406160
>I imagine that one thing that could be done to tone down the supremacy of high-offense multitarget builds is to emphasize battles against fewer amounts of powerful enemies. Disregard the sample encounters in the book and try encounters with, say, one strong aramitama and two minions.

This'd probably be what I'd try; I'm already used to eyeballing my encounter design based on what the party is capable of in...basically every other RPG I've ever run.

>> No.51408603

>>51406667
I sort of have to wonder if that's just a thing that Japanese tabletop RPers prefer. I wonder if over there the hobby is a bit more shaped by video game tropes overall.

>> No.51408816

>>51406160
>Race and class talents have little variety to them.
I would say this is not as egregious, because Races have some unique things to them, like Darkstalkers emphasizing mobility and getting starting trasnformations, Hanyou getting flight, rerolls and bufffs applying to everyone nearby, Divine Souls being very support-focused etc. There are just some Talents that are included in many races over and over, like memory manipulation, automatic successes and "make a Physical/Magical attack". It is to a point where I think they should be common Talents avaialble for everyone. Mosty Styles also have some theme and at least one unique thing , like blowing up Obstacles or focusing on given Timing or endowing with Elements or Installing enemies/allies.

>> No.51408893

>>51408816

If the game was to pare down race and style talents to those that are actually unique and that are *not* just differently-dressed up ways of accomplishing the same thing, then each race and style would be exposed as having far less unique talents than they would initially seem to have.

As well, I have to say that I can see no real design niches to most of the races. Even races with a supposedly strong theme like the hanyou have a bevy of unrelated nonsequitur talents, and darkstalkers are not even that mobility/transformation-focused.

The entire race subsystem of Kamigakari would be better off discarded entirely. Let players assign an array for their statistics, and turn all talents that were once racial talents into common talents instead.

>> No.51409033

>>51408893
Darkstalkers get 4 Talents improving mobility, 2 Talents giving them starting transformation into a werewolf/vampire, 4 Talents improving endurance, and 2 Talents for being tricky. I think that fits the theme of being descendant from dark beings because you can pick talents to be a mobile vampire, hardy wolf-girl or bewitching succubus.

Hanyou are all about luck. They have quite a few talents influencing rolls, turning them into Fumbles etc. They also can grant bonus to Luck to everyone else and find bonus Gold. They also have 2 talents for being tricky, thanks to shapeshifting and their own dimension door.

>> No.51409113

>>51409033

Have a look at the non-advanced talents of the darkstalker, and a murkier picture is painted. 2 transformation talents, 2 mobility talents, 1 mobility/endurance talent, 1 generic magical attack, 1 generic memory modification. That is a rather disjointed set of options, both thematically and mechanically.

Hanyou can fly, make special attacks, find gold, "talk to animals" (actually an automatic success), teleport, manipulate rolls, improve luck, and shapeshift with their starting talents. That is even more thematically and mechanically nonsensical.

I see absolutely no reason to have these talents be arbitrarily segregated into "races" with the flimsiest of justifications, rather than the system giving players a free selection of statistics and racial talents.

>> No.51409194

>>51409113
I was looking at the full Talent spread, because really, I see no reason for focusing only on starting Talents. You are probably going to pick just two racial Talents from those starting ones anyway so you can pick manipulate rolls/finding Gold for a luck Theme (just "finding" resources is lucky) or transformation/mobility for lightning-fast vampire theme. Or transformation/memory manipulation for hypnotyzing vampire.

You brough up another point which I think is more valid. Talents like Animal Communication give you a discrete capability...but only in fluff. It's the same with Magus' Familiar. Those are the things that are interesting and probably useful out of combat but they exist only in the fluff descriptio of a given Talent. It is said that ifmechanics and fluff come into conflict, mechanics always win so I guess it depends of your GM if they allow you to actually be able to talk to animals with that Talent. I guess if you just want to use it for flavor then it works for free but if you want to use if for something then it costs [O] and always succeeds. And if there are no animal nearby you can still use it but fluff it differently.

>> No.51409408

>>51408603

Likely, but the 'battles take place in barriers' thing is entirely from anime, manga and other fiction though. It's mostly prevalent in modern urban settings. Think of it something like the superhero identity trope in superhero comics that allows someone with superpowers to do superhero things while keeping his ordinary life intact.

These spatial barriers and wards allow large-scale battles to happen in secret to the general public and often allow then them avoid damage to the real world. Oftentimes they are part of a narrative where the supernatural elements of the world had been waging war with each other since forever completely hidden from the general public.

>> No.51409587

>>51409194

>I see no reason for focusing only on starting Talents

They are the foundation upon which a character is built. That foundation should have a solid theme and a solid mechanical niche.

>pick manipulate rolls/finding Gold for a luck Theme (just "finding" resources is lucky) or transformation/mobility for lightning-fast vampire theme
You can limit yourself to thematic talents, yes. This would still be possible in a "pick whatever you like" subsystem with all racial talents turned into common talents, and with players being given an array to distribute as they pleased.

>> No.51410120

>>51409587
An array and common Talents would be nice, yes. Plus maybe some special, powerful Talents that you can get one or two only in character creation, explicitly tied to a specific lineage? Anyway, what I am saying is that this is not as bad a picture as you are painting, at least for me. It is not ideal, far from it, but perfectly workable.

>> No.51412344

>>51408603
It's not the tropes or their use that is the problem.
What I'm saying is that if you cordon off combat to its own separate world and base most, if not all of character customization on said out-of-context combat, it had better be some pretty damn good combat. Because if it isn't interesting enough to stand on its own, there is nothing else to pick up the slack.

>>51410120
>It is not ideal, far from it, but perfectly workable.
That applies to so many systems I have no desire to play, such as Dungeon World.
"Workable" is not enough when there is "good" to be had.
"Workable" is not enough when you were excited about something.
"Workable" is better than nothing but not good enough.

>> No.51412726

>>51412344
>"Workable" is better than nothing but not good enough.
Sure, geez. I have yet to play this game and no previous experience with SRS games so whatever. I will stay my judgement until I get some actual play experience. I just meant that it is not bad. Could be better but things rarely couldn't get an improement in some way.

Besides that, question time. Can I change my Talent in addition to obtaining new ones or instead of it? Also, when I get LV 5, 10 etc. are High Talents just available for being picked with that one new Talent I always get on level up or in addition to it (and one free Racial Talent)?

>> No.51414811

>>51412344
>It's not the tropes or their use that is the problem.

I'm aware, it's just your comment made me think.

>> No.51416294

>>51412726
You can change one Talent in addition to gaining one new Talent every level up, as per page 286 of the PDF! Also, at the 5's, you only get the opportunity to pick a High Talent, not "an extra pick." If you look at the character sheet, the right hand page is in fact basically telling you exactly how many Talents you get, and when you get them.

You'll note at 10 and 20 you actually get 3 Talents. One of them is an auto-acquire, one is your typical pick, and one is a Racial. 10's is explained in the PDF. 20 is a super special capstone ability. I will keep it a mystery. Spooky.

>> No.51418148

>>51416294
Thanks! I completely forgot about those sheets.

>>51416294
>20 is a super special capstone ability. I will keep it a mystery. Spooky.
Is this something expansions introduce?

>> No.51418672

>>51418148
Yup! It's in True Regalia of Chronos. I haven't translated that yet, nor any additional High Talents, but they exist.

>> No.51420001

Basics:
• World Influence Level: 1
• Race: Divine Soul (Divine Revival, Scatter Disease)
• Stat Type: Arcane
• Main Stats: Strength 1, Agility 3, Intellect 4, Will 5, Luck 3
• Main Style: Digital Sorcerer A (Zohar Method, Extend Code)
• Secondary Style: Elder Mage B (High Cure, Spirit Flux)
• Cover: ??? (Special list not yet translated)

Items:
• Weapon: Magic Jewel 1500G + free Automatic Chant (1500/5000)
• Protector (Suit): Bodysuit 1500G (3000/5000)
• Accessory (Feet): Tactical Boots 1500G (4500/5000)
• Accessory (Hand): Stylish Watch 300G (4800/5000)
• Remaining: 200G

Derived Statistics:
• Accuracy: 1 Strength
• Evasion: 5 = 3 Agility + 1 Style + 1 Suit
• Conjuration: 6 = 4 Intellect + 2 Style
• Resistance: 6 = 5 Will + 1 Style
• Insight: 3 Luck
• PD: 2 = 1 Base + 1 Style
• MD: 9 = 2 Base + 3 Style + 4 Weapon
• Initiative: 21 = 8 Base + 8 Style + 2 Weapon - 1 Suit + 3 Boots + 1 Watch
• HP: 38 = 9 Base + 29 Style
• Armor: 1 Suit
• Barrier: (nada)

An attempt at a full-on support character. Not everyone is a fan of healbots, but given Kami's system this one can still output a (potentially two-target because of jewel) decent basic attack -- nothing next to dedicated DPS builds, of course, but hardly useless. Evasion and Resistance are both pretty high, while sporting the ability to revive the downed, heal, and manipulate spirit while doing so. I was considering using Harvest God instead of Extend Code to have multiple different heal options, but I guess that waits for level 2. A tiny god fascinated with technology and putting things together.

>> No.51421948

>>51418672
Looking forward.

>> No.51425728

>>51418672
That's a fairly exciting addition.

>> No.51426772

Just a quick question, but is it possible to do multiple talents with the same timing, so long as the cost is payed?

>> No.51427001

>>51426772
If I understand it right, you get one Timing each unless some ability or other exception gives you more. So no, you can use only one Talent for each Timing unless the Talent in question states that it doesn't expend a Timing. Timing:Unique is different because you basically gain and expend it at the same time, mainly when you are using Talent requiring it. Most Timing:Unique Talents can be used only once per round, though.

>> No.51427872

>>51426772
Does that man have a gun pompadour? that is fucking amazing

>> No.51427883

>>51418672
This is why i told people earlier to quit picking apart the game quite so heavily with gripes and issues. We don't have the full picture yet.

Who knows, maybe one or more of those errata fix some of those issues and we're just jumping the gun.

>> No.51428771

I wonder if a Godhand built around Spirit Armament could somehow be viable? The idea of fighting your enemies with whatever you find on hand sounds very cool.

>> No.51428904

>>51428771

>> No.51429000

So which build lets me make a supersand?

>> No.51429542

>>51426772
Basically >>51427001 has it right, but I'll add emphasis. Start, End, Attack, Prep, and Defense, you basically only get one of, as per their actual timing (as in, the 'when' of it, like Start at the beginning of the round and End at the end). Some Talents will not spend a Timing, just need to be done 'at' that Timing (like Crystal Transformation/Install), and some Talents will give you more of a Timing (like the High Talent L5 that gives you more Attack timings).

Unique is Unique in that you basically have an infinite number of them, but Talents with that Timing can only be used 1/round. But you can use multiple Uniques at the same time so long as you can pay the cost.

>> No.51432090

So, has anyone messed around with Dragon Carrier (even full A/B Dragon Carrier)? How does it feel?

>> No.51432854

>>51427883

It seems deeply unlikely that a supplementary rulebook would patch a core rulebook issue. Such a fix would come in Kamigakari's actual errata document rather than in a sourcebook.

>>51432090

Dragon Carrier A is probably one of the best pure offense styles in the whole game. Since pure offense seems to be the ideal metagame, it is thus one of the best styles in the game.

Crystal Transformation is a single [5] for +1 Rank for the entire battle, which is amazingly cost-effective in terms of both spirit pool and timings. I have used it in the builds here >>51355975 and here >>51389003.

>> No.51432929

>>51432854
>It seems deeply unlikely that a supplementary rulebook would patch a core rulebook issue

Yeah. I've seen it happen before (in some White Wolf games) but usually this sort of fix is done in a dedicated errata doc.

>> No.51435452

>>51432854
>Crystal Transformation is a single [5] for +1 Rank for the entire battle, which is amazingly cost-effective in terms of both spirit pool and timings.
That is ture and I am always sad looking at Darkstalkers' two transformation talents. Bestial Transfomration gives only one kind of Rank, costs doubles, consumes your start AND changes your type so you are now more vulnerable against class-targeting weapons. It stacks with Dragon Carrier, I guess, but is much worse otherwise.

>> No.51436711

>>51435452
Is it actually easier to pay a specific number than doubles? Mathematically you are guaranteed to have either doubles or steps in a full spirit pool.

Also, seems like if you get Supernatural War and Close Combat Resilience as well, the former is nearly equivalent to another +1 rank (or better if you get unlucky with damage rolls) and the latter is a decent defensive talent, and neither costs anything extra.

>> No.51436828

>>51436711

Supernatural War and Close Combat Resilience are ● talents, which are supposed to be more powerful. You want to prioritize taking ◎ talents, which are even stronger.

The build in >>51355975 is probably taking Invincible Manslayer and Spirit Void at levels 3 and 4 to destroy enemies even more ruthlessly, for example.

>> No.51436981

>>51436711
Either one, but you are probably taking one transfomration for the start. Also, it takes out two dice from your Spirit pool rather than just one.

That said, how does even using both of those work? Do you change your Class depending on the order they were activated?

>> No.51440046

Bump.

>> No.51443045

I've been trying my hand and finding some fun combos. I like the premise of God Hand so I've focused on that for now. So far I have:

God Hand A/Divine Talker A
World Influence Lelve: 4
Talents: Thunderous Tremor, Hundred Strikes Art, Inner Heaven, Continuous Words of Power, Spirit Mudra.

It goes like this:
Thunderous Tremor (6) -> Enlightement (E) -> Continuous Words of Power (3) -> Thunderous Tremor (free) -> Hundred Strikes Art (6)

That is 9 rank with bonus PD equal to your Strength spread between two attacks. It costs (E, 3, 6, 6) and does not benefit from weapons with additional #Target unless you pick Extension of Self. You are probably going to get Spirit Mudra and Hundred Strikes Art at LV1, Continuous Words of Power at LV2, Inner Heaven at LV3 and Thunderous Tremor at LV4.

Going with this probably requires some kind of support dedicated to giving you Overflow or Spirit Dice, or maybe just being Human. I am not sure if Spirit Mudra is enough to get you right Spirit dice but it is probably nice if you are a Darkstalker for another +1Rank for the entire fight. You can get Explosive Breath but that is another Talent required.

>> No.51443191

What combo would be best for emulating DFO's vagabond?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsQula0w2tI

>> No.51443290

>>51443045
Now that I look at it, Swift Art could replace Hundred Strikes Art, changing the overall cost to (E, E, 3, 6). A bit less damage but better accuracy on the second attack.

>>51443191
I am not sure what I've just saw. If you want to be good with the sword and deal lots of raw damage then probably something with Arc Slayer or God Hand (Extension of Self) or maybe Dragon Carrier.

>> No.51443721

>>51443290
she's an incredibly flashy anime jedi more or less.

She gets to dual wield and in her offhand she forms with her chi a variety of weapons that go from short sword, katana, bludegon, zanbato, and lightsaber which add certain effects to the attack.

She does a lot of flashy sword based attacks but also some projectile stuff that I think is like her chi/force powers like doing TK Push/pulls, a small aoe attack that's her manipulating gravity to increase so as to crush enemies.

>> No.51443813 [DELETED] 

>>51443045
I guess I should add a note somewhere, but Continuous Words of Power allows you to use [Cost: X], which is to say, something like [Cost: 5] or [Cost: E]. As Thunderous Tremor is [Cost: 5, 5] this actually doesn't qualify.

It's basically saying "you can use something that costs one die for free". Meanwhile if you see something that says it'll let you use [Cost: X, X] for free, then Thunderous Tremor qualifies.

>> No.51443864 [DELETED] 

>>51443045
I guess I should add a note somewhere, but Continuous Words of Power allows you to use [Cost: X], which is to say, something like [Cost: 5] or [Cost: E]. As Thunderous Tremor is [Cost: 6, 6] this actually doesn't qualify.

It's basically saying "you can use something that costs one die for free". Meanwhile if you see something that says it'll let you use [Cost: X, X] for free, then Thunderous Tremor qualifies.

>>
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