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49584889 No.49584889 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

ITT: Times when things got too wierd with your party/GM

>> No.49585385

>>49584889
Explain to me how these guys don't get shot to death?

>> No.49585528

>>49585385
PF Iconics are fucking Mary Sues

>> No.49585934

>>49584889
>DM is my roommate
>me playing female character
>party is trying to expose a "respectable businessman" as the scoundrel pirate that he will is
>party's brilliant plan to have me pose as a wealthy stupid merchant and get him to try to mug me
>me hitting on my roommate
>NPC accosts and tries to romance my character
>my character almost gets raped
It was really fucking uncomfortable.

>> No.49586365

>Playing D&D with some buds.
>DM is giving us the worst kind of railroad. Instead of just pushing us along the way he wants, he just keeps coming up with bullshit reasons that we can't do things until we stumble on to a hook.
>Every npc we meet is either a jerk or an idiot.
>Every quest we're given is an overly complicated fetch-quest.
>Over the course of one campaign, we go from bright eyed, enthusiastic heroes, trying to make the world a better place...
>To marauding mercenaries and rapists who are just getting the job done and getting the fuck out.

It's all your fault, Mike. If you just new how to go with the flow as a game master, instead of trying to passive aggressively force us to do MACGUFFINQUEST 2, we wouldn't have become a bunch of savages.

>> No.49586471

>>49584889
>>49585385
>>49585528
What's even going on here? Why are official PF characters in what appear to be WWI Russian trenches?

Seriously, I'm genuinely confused.

>> No.49586570

>>49586365
>now, now you are ready to game in the real world.

>> No.49586681

>>49586471
Baba Yaga (Slavic folk story) attacked Golarion once or twice in the past, the PCs follow her through a world, then they land in Russia, 1918.Also, fuck you, Rasputin is her son.

http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Reign_of_Winter

>> No.49586701

It's happening right now, and I need some assistance:

>Deadlands
>party is in a hostile town, 3/6 are jailed
>looking like 1 or 2 characters may die, have to roll new sheets
>I'm hosting
>had a shitty week
>GM's had a shitty week, BUT I'M LESS FORGIVING
>no issues with the game being entertaining prior

So. What is the best case scenario for me?

>> No.49586715

>>49586701
>for me

Clarification:
I don't want any butthurt from any deaths, or just a buzzkill session in general.

>> No.49586716

>>49586570
Oh fuck. If I thought that our GM had written such a shitfest intentionally, then I'd have to say he was a genius.

We turned a simple romp through D&D into Medieval Blood Meridian. We don't mention that campaign anymore.

>> No.49586905

>>49585934

This is the problem with rape in D&D nobody ever brings up. You want to think you're doing things realistically, with all the grittiness and danger pursuant to it.

Then you find yourself having to get into character as having been fucked against your will. That's a fun time. Especially everyone else around you, your compatriots, trying to respond appropriately to you , as a thing that got fucked against it's will. That's a real fun get together, that session.

Unless, worst case scenario, you are playing with the kind of angst-hole who actually gets into hardcore poor- me victim-playing... I think I'd find that to be the most irritating scenario of all

>> No.49587057

>Maid RPG
>Groups first time trying anything this anime
>One of the other Maids(players) kept getting really creepy around me
>Eventually followed me into a room and locked the door, then tried to rape me
>It took the GM Fiat of our Master kicking the door down to get him to stop

We kicked him out about a week later, because this was not the first offense of him throwing weird or asinine bullshit at me

There was another game going on at the same time, of Pathfinder, where I was playing an Arcanist, and having to put in WAY TOO MUCH EFFORT to try and make a homunculus. Meanwhile, another player joined and immediately found the shadow dragon egg he'd written into his backstory as something his character was searching for. And I couldn't even get the town's alchemist to let me borrow his shit without going on a multi-day long fetch quest for stupid bullshit.(We were in a colony on the coast of an unexplored continent, I didn't bring an alchemist kit with me, and the only alchemist in town hated me, but he was just fine doing shit for anybody else.)

>> No.49587066

>>49586905
I'm saving this post. It seems like it could be handy later on.

>> No.49587226 [DELETED] 

>>49586365
Wow. That sounds soul-drainingly terrible. Like, "it hurt to read those last two sentences" terrible. I empathize with you; if your group were my PCs:

>you'd be shown a hook, designed to at least interest one party member, but that's it; autonomy of the group must be preserved i.e. you chose to follow or not
>NPCs would, at minimum, have some kind of personality applicable for who they are, not just angry "fuck yous" from a railroading prick
>quests are generated by the PCs and their own goals in life. sure i'll throw something here and there, or reintroduce the forgotten main hook, but say the fighter wants to go find "the perfect blacksmithing anvil" or whatever, boom! there's the quest
>you could remain the bright eyed heroes you wanted to be, not the twisted murderhobo that lurks within us all made manifest

Seriously, GMs who cannot get their heads out of their asses about plot lines and PCs derailing them are my biggest pet peeve. So what if the PCs want to ignore what I present? Let them go do something that they'll enjoy while the world keeps turning. Life goes on without them (but would be better served by them being there). I mean, what's the worse that could happen other than [/spoiler]nothing really, unless they pulled the whole "i wanna campaign for social reform while the lich builds his undead army" bit. Then they deserve every last skellington jammed down their progressively large pie holes.[/spoiler]

>> No.49587244

>>49586365
Wow. That sounds soul-drainingly terrible. Like, "it hurt to read those last two sentences" terrible. I empathize with you; if your group were my PCs:

>you'd be shown a hook, designed to at least interest one party member, but that's it; autonomy of the group must be preserved i.e. you chose to follow or not
>NPCs would, at minimum, have some kind of personality applicable for who they are, not just angry "fuck yous" from a railroading prick
>quests are generated by the PCs and their own goals in life. sure i'll throw something here and there, or reintroduce the forgotten main hook, but say the fighter wants to go find "the perfect blacksmithing anvil" or whatever, boom! there's the quest
>you could remain the bright eyed heroes you wanted to be, not the twisted murderhobo that lurks within us all made manifest

Seriously, GMs who cannot get their heads out of their asses about plot lines and PCs derailing them are my biggest pet peeve. So what if the PCs want to ignore what I present? Let them go do something that they'll enjoy while the world keeps turning. Life goes on without them (but would be better served by them being there). I mean, what's the worse that could happen other than nothing really, unless they pulled the whole "i wanna campaign for social reform while the lich builds his undead army" bit. Then they deserve every last skellington jammed down their progressively large pie holes.

>> No.49587257

>>49587244
> unless they pulled the whole "i wanna campaign for social reform while the lich builds his undead army" bit. Then they deserve every last skellington jammed down their progressively large pie holes.
Why?

>> No.49587319

>>49587257
I suppose at that stage I just can't tolerate blatant ignorance like that. I mean, there'd be SIGNS and PORTENTS and SKELETONS BURSTING FROM THE GROUND as tip-offs that shit is getting worse. If they keep ignoring it...well...it's on them? At best, they'd get one final chance to find the MacGuffin and try to fix it all.

The example itself is pulled from an image macro that floats around every so often. Maybe another Anon has it. It's a decent story for a laugh.

>> No.49587324

>>49586681
That sounds like the kind of retarded homebrew module you'd find non some dead blog.

>> No.49587355

>>49587319
But if the players want to play a campaign where they campaign for change in the kingdom, why can't they? Its not as if the lich is actually real. The GM can alter the campaign for them.

>> No.49587397

>>49587355
If you're particularly lazy, you could even say the lich is just a notorious gaybasher.

>> No.49587436

>The example itself is pulled from an image macro that floats around every so often. Maybe another Anon has it. It's a decent story for a laugh.


Lol I just dug through about 3gigs of saved photos on my SD card before giving up the search. Someone else get it. It's good.

>> No.49587472

>>49587066
This should be printed on the inside cover of the DMG, imho

>> No.49587517

>>49587355
>>49587397
I have to concede defeat here and admit you both have excellent points.

The only thing stopping me from doing either of those ideas is my own stubborness and contrarianism (pelor damnit guys i told you bha'nelruk the everdying was coming back at 6th level when that madman stood outside your inn all night screaming and again at 15th with THE SAME MADMAN).

If I set up such a blatant hook that will EASILY be seen as vital to the existence of the world (and would have probably gotten the PCs approval before the start through asking if they're ok with a save-the-world plot), then they deserve it. Plain and simple, they deserve their skellington dickings.

>> No.49587547

>5e game, party has flown their airship to limbo, is attempting to infiltrate a Githzerai monastery.
>Monastery is surrounded by a cloud of psionic energy.
>Eventually the party decides fuck it and flies into the cloud.
>I ask them all for a wisdom save.
>The rogue fails.
>He gets hit with the phantasmal killer spell.
>"Hey rogue, what's your character's greatest fear."
>He goes quiet for a good minute.
>Finally he says "A pile of shoelaces".
>We all stare at him for a moment.
>"Okay then, shoelaces start to pour out of your mouth, take 28 psionic damage. "

He always was a weird one.

>> No.49587554

>>49587355
They should have stated, out of character, that they really were not interested in the plothook.

They should have asked if they could just focus on this social reform thing to let the DM know that this is what they wanted.

If players do not mention it in the slightest beyond some small talk, and a lich killing kingdoms WILL get some small talk between the players, then it is like they are waiting for it to get personal or get bigger.

>> No.49587646
File: 223 KB, 1139x291, Progress.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49587646

>>49587436

>> No.49587658

>>49587646
so much <3 for you

>> No.49587695
File: 90 KB, 550x700, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49587695

>>49587646
Amazing

>> No.49587846

>>49586905
A friend of mine was playing a bard and started hitting on the barmaid, trying to take her back to his room by serenading her in front of everyone at the bar. That night there was a knock at his door and when he opened, the 6'4" 250lb swarthy barkeep pushed his way in. Two failed persuasion checks later and his character was getting split open like a coconut. I only slightly described the unspeakable acts but it became very consensual very quickly and the whole table had plenty of laughs from the descriptions.

Rapey scenes can be funny if your table is cool. They can be appropriate for plot bullding but should probably not be described in detail. I'm not sure two of my players would be able to take their character being raped seriously, and the two that would, I would never foist that on them. It's unnecessary.

>> No.49587957

>>49584889

Well, to start it off, I just want to say that our DM warned us he had a weird idea he wanted to run with, and we said sure, let's try it (We had had some great campaigns prior, so we were willing to give him a chance, even when he said we might not enjoy this one, but he wanted to experiment with DMing)

We start off as essentially the equivalent of level 1 NPC classes, real weak. And we're part of this country, Neretar, that's at war. We're reservists in the military that got called up, issued some basic equipment and a bit of training. We get asigned to this elite fort, the sort of place where any one of the regular soldiers training there could probably beat our party of six.

After a bit of trundling around the fort trying to find out what's going on, we learn that it's essentially a shell game. Neretar has some very important noble families, despite being mostly parasites, and one of them managed to request an "elite half squad from fort [name] to guard their manor. We're sent through just long enough so they don't have to send a real elite unit, and we get sent to this manor.

Once we're there, we meet the man we're supposed to be body-guarding, who is in his sitting room, talking with another aristo. Both of them remark how we very much resemble the assistants of another noble of their mutual acquaintance, and our GM takes away our character sheets, hands us much higher leveled ones, and says these will be what we're using for now. We're pitched into the middle of a dungeon (and no indication of how we got in) and told that we have to stop the demon summoning before it's too late!

1/2

>> No.49587978

>>49587957
>>49584889

2/2

Well, long story short, we have a VERY railroady, story/adventure, where we get clues narrated to us by the two NPCs on the basis of what really happened to these other guys we resemble. That's actually how we find out many of the secret things that we're supposed to have known and are key to our successes. At one point, during an ambush, the two of them are arguing over whether the band of brave heroes were attacked by lizardmen or troglodytes, and our GM keeps switching out the models and their combat stats, every 2-3 rounds or so. We also had this one bizarre dream sequence which addressed stuff going on in our current timeline, and at the very end, get our first glimpse of an NPC who would come to be a major recurring character, but that's another story entirely.

>> No.49588271

>>49587244
The worst part about it, though? The GM took offense any time we tried to make suggestions. After the first session, I gave him a bunch of resources to read and even bookmarked some articles that could help him out.

He didn't touch any of it and got upset because I was "patronizing" him. This is after his first session where he asked for open criticism.

>> No.49590900
File: 185 KB, 1139x291, gay mariage dnd.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49590900

>>49587319
Got you up pal

>> No.49590930

>>49587978
>>49587957
Huh

That's kind of the artsy/experimentalism kind of thing it seems like a forever gm could easily fall into after one too many generic dungeon crawls.

>> No.49590943

>>49590900
see >>49587646

>> No.49591149

>>49584889
>DM is my gf's sister
>playing a fairly classic sort of Paladin archetype hero
>she starts pushing a political aspect to the game, okay, sure, whatever, we were getting too big for dungeon crawls anyway
>Paladin is nobility because of old noble bloodline but minor house in present day
>NPC princess takes a shine to Paladin, becomes patron, he becomes knightly champion at king's behest, apparently she's a bit impetuous and flighty but "just needs someone to keep her on a straight path"
>gf laughs it off when discussing game, says not to worry
>keeps trying to corner me at court and stay close by, always close by whenever party is in town
>asks me to shift rooms closer to hers in case she's attacked during the night (technically true, there was an assassination plot), seems disappointed when I move entire party and refuse the room with a door that adjoins her suite of rooms
>feels like she wants to ERP
>wound up leaving the group eventually, but mostly because of work getting hectic and no longer having time for game night

Sometimes I wonder. But I've known that girl since she was 10. Was a bit creepy, she's practically a surrogate sister.

>> No.49591344

>>49591149
It could have been a feeler attempt to see if you liked her, and considering your gf's attitude they might have been playing the long game to get you into a threesome.

>> No.49591448

I remember a series of screencaps/threads about a group whose games routinely devolved to sex. Masturbation for each other, blowjobs, a couple penetrative acts.

Not sure if true, but it was both weird and hot.

>> No.49591483

>>49586701
The only way to get out of prison is to suck dick. It's the only reasonable answer anon.

>> No.49591543

>>49585385
>>49585528
Since when does PF have Nazi Commies?

>> No.49591569

>>49591344
Possibly, though it could also have been a strictly in game fantasy play on her part just for the satisfaction of having it happen in play as opposed to reading about it.

I would not be particularly surprised if you were correct though.

>> No.49591600
File: 43 KB, 292x379, FingersMagee.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49591600

The gang got molested by a Chadra Fan.

>> No.49591604

>>49584889
That looks pathfindery to me but I know of no pathfinder books for WW1 / 2 / Cold War stuff.

>> No.49591762

>>49591604
During one of the last parts of the Reign of Winter path adventure, PGs are sent to WW1 russia to find Rasputin for Baba Yaga.

>> No.49591801

>>49591762
Please tell me they have all kinds of stat blocks and shit because I would LOVE some fucking WW1 rules for pathfinder.

>> No.49591945
File: 360 KB, 817x1628, TheRoman1.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49591945

>> No.49591953
File: 613 KB, 695x2930, TheRoman2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49591953

Not actually my group, I've just saved the screencap.

>> No.49591974

>>49590930


Well, he was definitely our forever GM, but we only had one real "dungeon crawl", most of his campaigns (brilliant ones, I might add) were either a lot of investigation and intrigue, or some sort of hard choice we had to make that involved huge repurcussions everywhere. I mean there was fighting, to be sure, but most of the time it was relatively open and interlaced with a lot of friendly NPC interaction. The one we had immediately before that, I'm pretty sure we spent more time exploring and trying to figure out where we were, and interacting with friendly NPCs than we did in combat, it really didn't have all that much.


But yes, he did say he was experimenting, and I'm not sure what were the impulses behind it. Guy was a genius though, so I don't want to try to chart out his thought processes too much.

>> No.49591982

>>49587355
Because that's not the campaign they signed up for. They signed up for a campaign that's about defeating a lich. Want a different campaign? Talk with the GM like fucking adults or find someone else to GM for you.

>> No.49591996

>>49585385
Hit Points

>> No.49592013

>>49591974
>>49590930


Actually, I just want to amend that statement slightly. He wasn't ForeverGM in the sense that he was always the GM at our table. He usually alternated with another guy, Adam.

The thing is, when Adam was running something, he wouldn't play, he would be planning out his next campaign, and he would put a lot of work into these things; so every time he interacted with us he would be GMing. Not quite surei f that counts as foreverGM or not.

>> No.49592761

>>49587355
When you agree to play a game with a GM, you agree to play within the context of the story he wants to run. Do whatever you want within the context of his game, but actually play the story he agreed to run.

>> No.49592782

>>49584889
My character turned into a female centaur to let the barbarian chieftess have a ride, since mounts were scarce in our setting. She started fondling my character's chest while riding around the courtyard. I didn't much care since that was the whole point, keikaku doori but the rest of the group barring the GM were understandably a little weirded out.

>> No.49592821

>>49591600
Were you playing It's Always Sunny on Yavin 4?

>> No.49592889
File: 184 KB, 839x1083, How to avoid Magical realms.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49592889

>>49584889

>> No.49593272

>>49586681
I'm honestly impressed by the fact that the soldiers have period accurate gas masks.
Guns aren't, but that's akready a nice effort.

>> No.49593277
File: 1.20 MB, 260x197, level 20 archer.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49593277

>>49585385

>> No.49593429

>>49586905
Good old "fade to black".
And for aftermath and having to role play victim, well your PC can also be a victim of worse torture or mutilation ending in being cripple, also unpleasant.

To maintain grittiness you don't have to go into detail of horrible acts, saying that something happens may be as good.

>> No.49593579

>>49592821
Essentially, yes.

>> No.49593660
File: 3.20 MB, 1000x776, 1474084611113.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49593660

>>49591448
Noice.

>> No.49593974

One time I was fucking a prostitute in our campaign and my friends (chaotic evil) were just like "Fuck it, lets rob this bar!" and they got fucking destroyed by the Half-Orc bouncer, so one of them had to crawl over and break down the door to my room with his warhammer, and I had to fight a 8 foot tall half-orc with my cock flopping about.

>> No.49594125

Had a character get dosed with an aphrodisiac in what was otherwise a vanilla game.

>> No.49594714

>>49591945
>>49591953
Good story.

>> No.49596395

>>49587517
Glad you aren't my GM. You sound like a complete fucktard.

>> No.49596534

>>49591344
This.
>>49591149
Don't be a faggot. If she's hot now, get that threesome.

>> No.49596612

>>49591448
Wasn't that the one of that one cuck who started dating some slut at an ERP game and then watch his friend fuck her in the ass.

>> No.49596682

>>49596395
And I'm glad you're not my PC. You sound like an ingrate.

>> No.49596744

>>49587957
>>49587978
This sounds like a whizbang campaign. You are a very lucky person.

>> No.49596756

>>49586905
Rape isn't fun

>> No.49596787

>>49593272
For some reason I thought the filters were canteens filled with vodka

>> No.49596822

>>49586471
5th book in Winter Witch AP, Rasputin Must Die where you travel to earth 1918 to, well, kill Rasputin.

>> No.49596836

>>49591543
Never heard of Paizo before?

>> No.49597152

>>49596744

Oh, I know. And it was neat, as hell, and had some great mechanical balance, although I think it was one of his weaker campaigns. Not that there was anything wrong with it, but he came up with some absolutely fucking amazing stuff, and "whizbang" comes in below average for him.

>> No.49599200

>>49596682
>making a plot so that you can go on /the/ and talk about how you "totally owned some sjws" or something
>"i-it's what muh setting would do..."

>> No.49599328

tried playing RIFTS when I was 9
no idea what was going on

<span class="pu-lbl"><span class="pu-img">[/spoiler]4chan Pass user since October 2016.[/spoiler]

>> No.49599928

>>49591448
W-what would I search for to find them?

>> No.49599943

>>49599928
Catan

>> No.49600189

>>49599200
It's the Game Master's game. He's choosing not to play to enable you guys to play his game. If he likes where the players are going, he will permit it. If he doesn't, he had every right to say "I am not running a game where you guys run a kobold brothel" right when you started down that path, and he still holds that right when he sends paladins after you. Sure there's being an asshole railroading GM, but there's also being a doormat, and a good GM should be neither.

>> No.49600206

>>49591801
Yes, absolutely.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/firearms/modern-firearms

>> No.49601075

>>49587319
>I suppose at that stage I just can't tolerate blatant ignorance like that. I mean, there'd be SIGNS and PORTENTS and SKELETONS BURSTING FROM THE GROUND as tip-offs that shit is getting worse. If they keep ignoring it...well...it's on them?
A reasonable GM would just scrap his plot or maybe have it be something like.
>Gay marriage and shit
>Oh no skeletons
>Now you have to help defend the new republic you founded from the lich
The whole post just makes it seem like the DM was butthurt that they didn't want to follow his genetic kill the lich quest.

Ultimately however, a game is a cooperative action between each individual player, the GM, and each other individual player. If the players want to do something different that the GM doesn't want than the players should either bite the bullet or find a different game. Likewise if the players want to play a campaign you don't want to run the GM is well within their rights to say "No, I'm not running that campaign." If the DM really hated the campaign idea he should have forced the players back onto the rails or told them to find a new DM. However the post implies that everyone, the DM included enjoyed the campaign but the DM just decided to be a dick and give everyone a big fuck you for no real reason.

>> No.49602490
File: 287 KB, 705x1049, 1453191280860.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49602490

>>49596395
Because the party needs to be free to start a halfling harem and topple a royal family to seize the power to establish said harem at the expense of the DM's story, when they asked if you were interested in playing a game where you need to stop the Fabled Dread Dragon from destroying the kingdom.

As the flames of her maw cover the land in fire, you stand among scantily clad tiny women and wave your arms in the air, inarticulately screeching with rage.

Because you won't come out to your DM with what you want to do, just agree with what they say about the story and then ignore it. You are the worst kind of player. I'd rather a minmaxing asshole than you; someone who ruins every combat encounter with OP moves or builds, because then at least the party would end up fulfilling the story they agreed that they wanted to play, and there would still be NPC interaction and puzzles and skill checks for the rest.

>> No.49602862

>>49586905
There was this time when I made a character that was a wizard/fighter and was based on the Red Mage class from final fantasy. He tried to master as many schools of magic as he could, as well as the sword. We also had a female elven ranger, that was often hitting on male npcs to try to weasel out of doing things she was supposed to. She tried that once with a bard npc, and he actually tried to rape her, but it was in a super humorous way. It basically wound up with him, nude, chasing her benny hill style through the castle we were staying in. My character was studying at the time and heard a frantic knock at the door. The ranger explained everything and my character was all "All right, I'll take care of this" and stood in the doorway with arms crossed. Guy comes running down the hallway dick in hand, and stops in front of me. I said something like "Alright, guy. If you mess with her, you mess with me. And you don't want to mess with me."
His response was "OHHH. You want in too?" with a giant fucking grin.
My character slammed the door shut, eyes wide open, and started pushing furniture to block the door.

>> No.49602979

>>49600189
GM in that green text story didn't say "I don't like this idea, I'm not going to do it", he went along with it until the very end so that he could say "lol gay marriage got OWNED by zombies".

>>49602490
Hey, guess what, the players in that story seem to have clearly indicated that they had other thoughts about what kind of story they would like, and the GM still seems to have wanted to give them a last minute bit of bullshit because he wanted a gotcha! moment, even though it was all by his arbitrary fiat.

>mu-muh setting...

>> No.49603158

>>49601075
>give everyone a big fuck you for no real reason.
I'm pretty sure the reason they got fucked by the lich is because they ignored the lich. there's consequences to letting evil go unchecked.

>> No.49603168

>>49603158
>muh setting

>> No.49603228
File: 161 KB, 480x360, 1392236690161.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49603228

>>49602979
>Hey guys, want to play a game of D&D
>Sure!
>Yeah, sounds good.
>I'm in.
>Alright, well I was thinking of you saving the kingdom from a great evil. A powerful lich lies behind his army of the undead, summoning a dark power to raise all the dead and wipe the land clean of mortal life. So... what do you think?

Regular players:
>Cool! Sounds fun!
>We are actually genuinely interested
>Plays the campaign, defeats the Lich

Those players:
>Cool! Sounds fun!
>We're agreeing but only because we don't actually care about any of that, we just want to sandbox
>Completely ignores main plot in favour of doing their own thing

You:
>I have other thoughts about what kind of story I'd like. Insert your bullshit you want instead.
>GM: I don't like this idea, I'm not going to do it.
>You're on /tg/ because no one likes to play with someone like you who loves to take the game off the rails so you can play at something else entirely

Maybe try a game with this DM.

>> No.49603260

>>49603168
>things already established should be retconned

A dragon doesn't won't be any less willing to eat you just because you want to ignore it's existence. A lich isn't going to sit back and wait for you to finish what you want to do before trying to enact his plan. A vampire isn't going to stop drinking people's blood just because you aren't around to oppose him. If you walk into a room with a beholder, it's not going to vanish because you'd rather check every brick on the walls for secret levers first.

Go step on some d4s.

>> No.49603269

>>49603228
Look at how the DM didn't object at all and actually went along with it so that they could have their arbitrary fiat gotcha moment. It's the equivalent of saying "rocks fall, everybody dies" and thinking you're really clever.

>> No.49603311

>>49596612
I think, but he was fucking her too and it was a libertine arrangement, so no cucking technically happened.
>>49599928
Anon, I wish I remembered.

>> No.49603314
File: 15 KB, 583x474, 1372477486956.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49603314

>>49603168
Okay, listen. You're playing a game with a party of people. You're off trying to seduce a noble so you can marry into power, so your next character in the campaign can be the son of a noble, lol.
You joined this game because you heard it was going to be about stopping the Demon Lord, a new threat to the world. The DM started the campaign about a month ago, and you've had four sessions so far. In game, it's been about a week. Two sessions ago you heard about Orgoz the Eater, a demon that appeared in the town of Smalton. You brush it off, because whatever, demon, pfft. Got nothing to do with that Demon Lord or whatever. Besides, the party is all into making heir babies too, or whatever.

Now, should the DM just throw out all the preparation for the Demon Lord campaign and redo everything for Medieval Baby Maker RPG? Should the DM gently nudge the party back onto the rails with an urgent plea for help to the Noble being wooed, requesting aid against Orgoz the Eater, since he finished eating Smalton and is headed for Biggerton? Or should the DM try to throw you forcibly onto the rails by having Orgoz show up and eat the target of your affections? Or maybe they should talk to everyone out of character, before the next session, and ask whether they want to continue with MBMRPG or their Demon Lord Campaign?

The answer?
>muh setting

Because you're mentally incapable of discussing this topic. You just want to make a snide joke and feel better about yourself.

>> No.49603341

>>49603269
Except they knew from the very beginning that the rocks would be falling. They had plenty of time to avoid the rocks, but decided to stand right under them jacking off instead.

You must be one of the special snowflakes from said game, I don't see why else you would be so ass blasted about it. If you stand on the railroad tracks and decide to turn away from the train coming right for you, you're still going to get run over, and it would be no one's fault but your own.

>> No.49603360

>>49603314
inb4 his only reply is
>muh setting
again. because settings are over-rated and unneeded in rpgs or something /sarcasm

>> No.49603401
File: 4 KB, 256x197, images.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49603401

I've played a game of Triune Legacy with some shit players, including my own brother, whose character concept was murderous college student with weeabo knives bought on eBay, and a guy who literally played an illuminati/lizard person(they're a race that has controlled the entire world since they made humans of clay) whose society standing was a hobo, job was a magical inquisitor, and magic that was based in shadow.

We were on the trail of missing persons. We had discovered very early on, several warehouses linked to the kidnappings. Hitting them, we learned where we could find a cult base. From the cult base, we learned where the captives where taken from there, a mansion.

Now, as a PI character, I kept telling the party, the longer a person is missing, the less likely they'll be found alive. When the game started it was a week to the full moon. But after every warehouse, four of the five which we hit, we would take a full 24 hours to rest. I suggested we maybe blitz the warehouses, since the opposition had been so light, and I reminded them, time was a factor. "Nah, the important thing won't happen until we get to it" I was assured. It won't matter, they said.
We hit the cultist base on the fifth day, after we had messed around with the first four warehouses. We helped one of the captives escape, one of the illumizard people, and they helped us fight our way out with the information of where the mansion was. "Let's go now, before the full moon!" The character whose job it was to find missing persons before they took this job to find missing persons. "Nah, we got time!"

On the sixth day, we went to a nightclub, had a bizarre sequence, and then went home, instead of carrying on from there to the Mansion. So on the night of the full moon, we met to plan outside the mansion.
1/2

>> No.49603480

>>49603314
Look at all these made-up details! By the reckoning of the story, they had only just started. Why do you assume everyone was really gung-ho about the lich thing until the derailing detail came up; since the story indicates that the first questions asked were about the setting, it could be that everyone rolled up characters up to session 1, upon which time the DM started working out details with the party and they decided they wanted to do something else with the setting.

Now, if there was anything to indicate that the DM was opposed to this turn of events, point it out, because the DM indicated that he was all along for the ride, probably just so he can get in his gotcha moment. If there was anything indicating that the DM was trying to get them back in track at any time other than the very first, point it out, because it looks like the DM wanted to build up to this gotcha moment with his "clever" line.

In building up to this clever moment, the DM gave them no chance to deal with this new consequence, with many possibly paths to explore. How does the new democracy handle this existential crisis? How will it conduct war when the traditional war-making caste is gone? Perhaps the gay couples, invested in a new way in the nation, enlist en masse in a new fighting unit. But, alas, the DM's clever gotcha moment was more important. Consider , for example, the anger that people feel when the DM goes after characters in the players' backstories to "create drama" with no way for the players to prevent it when it is mebtioned, but the DM justifies it by saying "well, you knew that the BBEG knew who you are, you should have taken steps to protect your loved ones!" Or even more simply, consider when the DM puts you in a no-save, just die situation of any kind.

It is
>m-muh setting

Because you think having a backstory or even just DM fiat gives you the wherewithal to be an ass at the table, like how the edgy player at the table uses their backstory to be an ass.

>> No.49603492
File: 2 KB, 119x160, images2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49603492

>>49603401
We wasted the first two hours of the session in argument over tactics and strategy. I was all for anything to get into the place and get going, but no one wanted to just go for it, they wanted to discuss how best to do it, and we wound up with a split party of myself, the illumizards(one of which was a illuminati cop who was actually being serious, wielding two shields as weapons and shields, their magic manifested as shields and bubbles, and could adjust what they let in and out accordingly), and the only other character who could use a firearm.

Team melee went in for the front gate, and managed to spook their guards into fleeing the mansion with Ring-like psychic horror from the murderous college student. We took the backyard, and after a total shitshow the shadow caster literally made the shadows bleed and the ground wound up unhallowed and cursed. But that's another story.

So rushing upstairs, searching for the missing people, we arrive in the top floor ballroom, converted into some fucked up magic circle/torture chamber/ritual sacrifice. Using a blood red diamond for a focus, the villain triumphantly cast his spell, set in motion the seeds of an apocalypse, and killed anyone who was mortal and hooked into his circle.

We saved the missing persons we needed, since they were illumizards, but all the rest died. In a room of 66 people, 6 survived because they were the necessary lizard people needed to serve as focuses.

Because we wasted two days on un-needed warehouse searching, because we didn't press on when we were mostly unscathed, because they didn't think the DM would really enforce a time-limit on a time specific ritual sacrifice, these people died. The DM sadly told me I recognized several faces; As a private eye in a bad part of town, I knew a waitress, a burglar, three hobos, a hooker, and a junkie.

The campaign largely fizzled after the next session because a player and the DM had a serious falling out unrelated to the game.

>> No.49603494

>>49603480 (cont.)
But because you want the "clever" DM gotcha moment against the sjws so much, you're willing to ignore what it is: DM fiat at its very worst.

>> No.49603534

>>49603401
>>49603492
This is obviously a different case, because not only was the DM giving hints about a time limit regularly, a player was going with it as well, and the players are given chances all throughout and after to prevent or mitigate the effects of thr setting. Whereas the green text story has it so the rocks fall, everyone dies moment occurs juuust when the law that so offended the DM is signed, as if to make a point, and the campaign ends there without a chance for the players to try and stop what is occurring from continuing. Gotcha!

>> No.49603625
File: 39 KB, 377x283, 1452673254395.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49603625

>>49603480
That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

I didn't propose or question anything about the story itself, I simply made an example of your reaction based on your opinions, and how I'd get you to get back to the main quest. That yes, the campaign starts with the evil Demon lord, and his evil plan, and you need to stop him, and what happens when you ignore it. You in this case could take a number of options I listed, from reacting to the news of Orgoz the Eater, to talking to your DM about campaign direction, since you'd want to retcon Orgoz and the Demon Lord since you prefer your special stories.

Instead, you go on a tangent about new consequences for dealing with, gee, what appears to have been an evil ritual for ultimate power. Generally you need to stop the BBEG before he wipes life off the world, not after. I mean, right there, an age of eternal darkness and an unsleeping undead army. I mean, if the lich had been planning on blowing up the sun and annihilating the planet, then you couldn't argue "Where from here?" once the dead of the world have risen to snuff em all out, because the world would have just been gone. You're tiredly arguing semantics when I'm asking, what could the DM have done to reassert the campaign?

Straight up, everyone dying because they ignored the threat was kind of funny, in a dick way. But as a DM, my options would have been:
>Lure them back into action with Orgoz
>Have the Noble request they deal with Orgoz, so that the player goal is advanced by the story goal
>Have a demon named Orgoz the Eater show up and eat the Noble, making it a revenge thing
>Talk to the players out of the game and arrange things to their satisfaction
A) By retconning it into their vision
B) By nerfing Orgoz and the Demon Lord and having them as a side quest to advance their primary motivation
C) Telling the ungrateful fucks to get out of my house and keep their feet off the coffee table, the animals

Six options

>> No.49603658

>>49603534
>and the campaign ends there without a chance for the players to try and stop what is occurring from continuing.
You mean besides all the chances they had during the sessions leading up to it? If they were told what was going to happen in the very beginning, he doesn't need to keep reminding them. They should know that a clock doesn't stop ticking just because they aren't looking at it. You're getting awfully butthurt over this.

>> No.49603675
File: 83 KB, 310x349, 1392236683764.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49603675

>>49603534
>DM never told us about a time limit
>DM never had questgivers give us a time limit, other than as soon as possible
>DM only pulled back the "Veil" (magic) in our second session, our second day
>DM only had an NPC bring up ritual magic when asked about why someone would need people to cast a spell
>DM only told us about the full moon when we asked about it in game
>DM had an NPC tell us that full moons are the best for ritual magic only specifically after my character asked about the significance of the full moon

As to the whole mitigate the effect idea, we got a new player, and she only joined us in game after her character had visions of rains of blood, fire from the sky, and a great demon rising. We had no clues or leads on any possible solutions before the game ended permanently.

You're too in love with yourself, dude.

>> No.49603683

>>49603625
That pic is so old it shows his original pendant. It was retconned into a die.

>> No.49603696
File: 737 KB, 1279x1535, 1372130538700.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49603696

>>49603658
Yes, thank you.
When a hard-bitten, street smart PI deduces the full moon means a lot of missing people are going to die on the full moon, but the party is willfully ignoring their time restriction, it doesn't mean that the villain is going to wait for a non-optimal night to do their evil ritual, or put it off to the next full moon. If you got what you need, you're gonna use it.

>> No.49603713

>>49596395
>what are actions
>what are consequences
>b-but muh caracter w-would do that
Screw you, you signed up for one thing and change in the middle of the game. It's like meeting with the others to play rugby and at a certain point IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GAME you switch to football/soccer and then complain about being fucking tackled.

Screw you with a cactus sideways!

>> No.49603727
File: 193 KB, 640x400, 1453360994587.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49603727

>>49603683
It was DM's choice, and your refusal to choose one of the options I presented makes me feel like I should have made that an option, because I guarantee you, if I was running this Demon Lord campaign, and that's the attitude you as my player took, I'd sure as fuck have the Demon Lord rise, and have Orgoz the Eater eat your party members, your Noble wife, and your baby son, right in front of you. Then he'd give a classic demon laugh and tell you you're joining them, and then he'd eat you too. From the boots up, too.

>> No.49603764

>>49602862
Cancer

>> No.49603775

>>49586681
That's fucking retarded.

>> No.49603817

>>49603625
>That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
Right back at you. Especially at the whole "ritual of unstoppable power" thing; nothing indicates that, the undead are not invincible. And in my opinion, though this is not an argument, having it be really unstoppable without a way to continue the story seems awful, all for--what? So the the GM can "win" against his players or something? I suppose the DM in the greentext story probably does think along those lines.

But since you want to use this tangent with all these extra details to bulwark your original opinion, I'll bite: the DM should talk to his players OOC that the original story is still ongoing and also nudge them IC, preferably not in a way that the party can't react to.

>>49603658
Considering that two, three, or even more people seem to need to respond to my every post, I think the anal pain lies elsewhere. And, no, no chance was given to the players to fight off this undead army; also, if the DM was really intent on their original story continuing, they ought to have had in-game hints that got progressively more obvious as the story went on. I hardly think some super evil ritual would have no visible consequences on the world before completion.

Say a novelist writes a story about a group of heroes who are victorious in their quest, but then writes "lol plague millions die, all their efforts were for naught because other things happen too, guess they should have been doctors!" at the very end. That's about analogous to what occurred here. And if you want to argue that time should continue on in the setting, I'll ask: then why, in this setting full of things happening all the time, was it that the party was the only plucky band of heroes around to stop the lich, especially if, were there player character deaths, those players would roll for new characters who presumably were IC part of the setting beforehand?

>> No.49603836

>>49586905
I was contemplating in the shower this morning about reasons why society (and myself included) have a natural revulsion to rape to a degree more so than murder and I think I might have cracked it

It's actually sort of two-fold, but for starters it's a manifestation or maybe an extension of torture. No culture anywhere actually celebrates needless and sadistic torture. It's why people beg to be killed than to be tortured. So right off the bat, there is the universal revulsion humans have toward torture and sadism.

But also because sex, even in many repressed places, is viewed as an extremely sacred act. Christians even believe it is a divine gift from God (between heterosexuals that is). So the idea of someone corrupting and perverting something so intimate also attacks our sensibilities of right and wrong. In consensual sex you are opening yourself up to another person while during rape you are being forcibly invaded so to speak. In fact, I've read in the news, rape victims using that exact kind of vocabulary to describe their experience. They use words like "violated" and "invaded".

Is this right?

Regardless, I honestly hate rape, even as a joke. I only have two rules when I DM and its 1. No talking over each other and 2. No rape shit

>> No.49603850

>>49603675
Then maybe your GM was a dick too, if less of one because there were in-game hints. You even point out here >>49603696 that the full moon aspect was known IC. Perhaps you were too in love with your "hard-bitten PI" that you want to be vindictive when others disagreed. It doesn't make you wrong about what happened in your game, but it does make you a smug ass.

>> No.49603869

>>49603713
It's more like a group of friends decides to play assoc. football instead of American, except for one guy, who then insists on judging everyone playing football by American football rules because he's the ref.

>> No.49603899

>>49585385
Jack churchill went into WWII using a bag pipe, a longbow, and a sword and lived to tell about it. He did get captured at some point as was pretty upset that the war was over by the time he managed to get home. Not sure if he was ever in that situation though.

>> No.49603903

>>49603899
He also had a gun too and he only killed 1 guy with his longbow

>> No.49603915

>>49603817
>But since you want to use this tangent with all these extra details to bulwark your original opinion, I'll bite: the DM should talk to his players OOC that the original story is still ongoing and also nudge them IC, preferably not in a way that the party can't react to.

See, now that's an entirely reasonable reaction. Those are solid choices. Either the DM resolves it out of game, or drops an Orgoz at the gates that needs some good ol' fashioned Combat Round.

>But in regards to multiple people responding to your posts, could it be that you're just that guy?

And assuming the DM must have at least tried to hint them back onto the path, it still stood that the Evil Lich had an evil ritual, to occur at evil time. In game or out, the star of Goliath of the Comet of Dave will still happen. For an excellent example of time pressure, check out that there Avatar: The Last Airbender. When the comet comes, bad times.

>> No.49603935

>>49603899
>>49603903

Literally the IRL meme character and any mention of him is a sign of a Hollywood historian retard
Go read up on Baron Nishi or something

>> No.49603985

>>49603915
>assuming the DM must have at least tried to hint them back onto the path
Sure are assuming things not in evidence.

>> No.49603996

>>49603850
Vindictive about saving missing persons from a ritual sacrifice? Or in my dealings with them? I was primarily a support character, and when we got magic stuff, I was gifted with Chi, so I could sense auras, etc. I spent my characters money on supporting the group, and set up my character's side business(Bar) as a party HQ. I used my characters vehicle to transport half the party. I even paid for dinners in game, despite the illumizard walking around with a literal briefcase of stolen money.

Nah, you're just desperate to make a time limit in a game seem like a great burden only imposed by bad DMs. It's kind of sad to see you grasping at straws and trying to make any argument you can to avoid admitting that ignoring your campaign for something else entirely shouldn't have consequences.

>> No.49604043
File: 5 KB, 279x165, doubt.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49604043

>>49603985
>"I told you full well that you had to kill that lich before he completes the ritual and ushers in an age of eternal darkness."

>Especially at the whole "ritual of unstoppable power" thing; nothing indicates that, the undead are not invincible.
>Age of eternal darkness
>nothing indicates
>eternal darkness
>doubt

>> No.49604044

>>49603996
You're vindictive because you were ignored at the table, were proven right, and, as indicated by this post, want to gloat about it to complete strangers about how good of a player you were and how everyone else was a shitcunt.

Note that, despite everyone saying that there should be retcons or no consequences, I have consistently argued that it should be the case that you need to allow players to respond to consequences, that if great doom is about to befall the players that they should be warned IC, and that pulling a bait-and-switch gotcha moment while failing to do the above is not clever or entertaining.

>> No.49604061

>>49604043
How many ages of eternal darkness or rituals of almighty power have been overcome in fiction, I wonder.

>> No.49604081
File: 72 KB, 353x439, 1451802126795.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49604081

>>49604044
>Perhaps you were too in love with your "hard-bitten PI" that you want to be vindictive when others disagreed
>Proven right at second to last session
>Am suddenly vindictive because was right all along
>Must have been vindictiveness that made the party hostile to trying to find people before the time limit
>Clearly because I was right in the second to last session, it influenced the previous sessions

>> No.49604104
File: 156 KB, 576x540, 126546305.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49604104

>>49602862
>"OHHH. You want in too?"

>> No.49604129

>>49604081
I'm sorry you lack reading comprehension.

>> No.49604162
File: 416 KB, 1000x1000, 1372141309183.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49604162

>>49604061
Usually that happens before the ritual completes. Consider, Legend(1985), Skyrim, and uh, whatever, Legend of Zelda, how about Ocarina of time.

Legend: Villain defeated before ritual completes, deprived of mcguffin, no age of darkness.
Skyrim: I didn't finish the game, I guess the dragon will eat the world? Dragon killed, world saved and uneaten.
Ocarina of time: I think it was at least seven years of darkness over the land, and it involved time travel shenanigans too.

Conclusion: Campaign could have kept going, but probably only with time travel shenanigans, and assuming the characters were the seven-years-in-the-future counterparts.

>> No.49604245
File: 492 KB, 700x990, 1372159878013.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49604245

>>49604129
Well, I did read enough to know that you're describing my sometimes-asshole brother and my five friends as, apparently to me, shitcunts.

Let me clarify; my character, nor I, were being "vindictive"(maybe look into word choice?) when we pointed out the time limit. Nor was there any vindictiveness in trying to convince the party of the time limit, anymore than someone would be vindictive as a rogue for telling a party member that there's a trap ahead. Clearly, you'd push past that vindictive bastard, and it would be all his fault when you fell into a pit and onto rusty spikes.
>I told you there was a trap!
>You vindictive prick!
>I told you the Baron's men arrest spellcasters, why would you cast a spell in broad daylight in the center of town, in front of the guardhouse?
>You're just a vindictive DM, you didn't expressly warn me about that!
>Maybe don't try to pick the lock with your dick.
>Nat 20!
>Your dick gets stuck in the keyhole, take a d6 of damage.
>WTF! I ROLLED A 20, SHIT DM

You must not get to play very often.

Here's how they could have defeated the Lich and gone back to doing what they were doing.

>> No.49604345

>>49604162
There are just as many examples in all sorts of media and for various audiences. Consider the Disney Alladin movie, in which the villain Jaffar possesses the genie lamp and still loses because of the pluck and wit of Allison; the Myth series of games, in which the villains already have an army of darkness and are beaten in hard-fought battles and desperate gambits; and even the example you say, the Legend of Zelda games. In those entries where Ganon or Ganondorf appears, he obtains part or all of the Triforce, and effectively has already gotten nigh-unstoppable before Link can even get to the scene. In OoT in particular, Ganondorf gains the Triforce of Power while Link is locked in sleep for seven years, taking over the land. While Link can travel back in time, is it usually only to unlock dungeons, and what he does in the past cannot defeat Ganondorf; he is defeated, at the height of his power, by the adult Link.

>> No.49604384

>>49587057
Seems to me that rape is one of the few things that could add interest to a Maid RPG. Am I interpreting this game correctly? What did you want to do?
>I roll to dust the chandeliers
>My skill in winding clocks is +5

>> No.49604388

>>49604245
You're vindictive now, dumbass. You were ignored at the table and, to get back at them for doing so when you were proven right, you gloat to strangers about your poor "hard-bitten PI" about how you were right all along and this is why DM Fiat is good because it proved me right even though the situations are not analogous.

>> No.49604471

>>49603341
I feel like the DM could have peppered the campaign with random undead encounters and a few one-off sessions where the Gay Pride Corps had to focus on repelling an undead army, to remind the players that the evil threat still exits. It could even have been the Big Evil that forces humanity to join together, gay or not, to fend off.

Nothing stops me from killing off all my players at the end of a session with an ancient red dragon and justifying it with "you didn't notice the clues about the dragon's awakening over the course of these sessions" - except that it wouldn't be fun - it would be fucking lame.

>> No.49604511

>>49604162
>probably only with time travel shenanigans
>because I only know how to steal tired tropes from videogames

>> No.49604552

>>49604345
*cough*
>Aladdin: There was a sequel because they didn't defeat Jafar so much as make him a powerful djinn and chuck him into the desert. But on that point, the mcguffin being Genie and his lamp, meant the hero could use the mcguffin against the villain. Not really able to use eternal darkness against a lich.
>Myth: That's their campaign setting, that's the story, dumbass. That's exactly how that story is meant to presented. Are you arguing that their DM should have just set the campaign in Myth?
Ocarina of Time: There were still seven years of Darkness then, by that reckoning. It won't be like it will retroactively un-kill the Deku tree and erase seven years of Ganondorf's rule.

>>49604388
You're just, sad. That's all I can think of. You just don't believe that anything more than spite motivates the world.

I brought up that story as an example of time limits in games, but you're never going to be convinced that this was anything further than a GM being a dick, that they shouldn't care when their story gets stomped on and derailed for someone else to play in the remains and make themselves a castle of bullshit.

Laying it out for you, the party in this game, instead of pursuing their stated campaign of fighting the Lich, instead went off the rails, started a civil war, overthrew and killed the monarchy, instituted themselves a democracy and ensured through any means their ascendance to Presidency(fascism). So there's the blood of the royal family on their hands, the blood of the common people who died in the war, and it was all done despite the DM having read out the campaign blurb about there being a big bad lich going to plunge the world into darkness. And you're going to say that the lich they totally ignored, the main villain, was just going to either go away by DM fiat, be retconned by DM fiat, or nerfed so that the game wouldn't end, by DM fiat.

1/2

>> No.49604558
File: 89 KB, 600x450, 1446793932280.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49604558

>>49604388

2/2

And this was the result you were looking for, to prove that DM Fiat is bad when the only thing that would have saved the game would have been DM Fiat? Do you even know what you're arguing for or against here?

>> No.49604576

>>49587547
got laugh outta that, nice

>> No.49604586

>>49604471
You probably didn't start your session describing how the Red Dragon was gaining power, and planning on destroying X kingdom for X reason. You probably end your campaign when the party completes the grand objective. Not when they succeed in creating the grandest market in all the lands, visited by all the nations of the world. Or when they steal the largest gem in the world, despite the campaign being about defeating the Kraken.

>> No.49604595
File: 81 KB, 465x699, 1452616473420.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49604595

>>49604511
>muh setting

>> No.49604640

>>49604552
What are you arguing about? I presented examples where, even when the villains seemed as if they were on the cusp of victory because of what seemed like unstoppable power, the heroes still won, as reasoning as to why a ritual of "eternal darkness" need not be the end of everything forever. Yes, as the story goes in those examples, the heroes bloody won, because that's the point I'm making: a campaign can go on, as long as a DM doesn't just want their gotcha moment, by giving the players a chance to fight back. If you want DMs to play like they're trying to "win" against their players by making it so some terrible consequences befall the players by fiat, with no chance to continue on, instead of trying to create a mutually enjoyable story, I don't know what to tell you.

>> No.49604696
File: 3.08 MB, 506x285, 126546310.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49604696

>>49604640
Not him, but it seems like you just can't handle that the group loses sometimes.

Why is it that people have this mentality that "the group should always win no matter what"?

>> No.49604791

>>49604696
>the group loses

Anyone ever tell you that it's not a competition between the DM and the players? If the group fails because the DM just says so by making something unbeatable, who is that supposed to be entertaining for? Frankly, that kind of DM should just gather everyone around the table and declare that the DM wins; no need to even bother with pretense.

>> No.49604806
File: 1.66 MB, 1280x937, 1448457518957.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49604806

>>49604640
So you're saying that if the Gelflings in the Dark crystal just ignored those Skeksis, and ignored the Wizards, and escaped the Garthim, and went to a secluded forest and rekindled the Gelfling race, then it would be unfair of the three suns to align with the Dark Crystal unwhole, allowing the Skeksis to rule forever?

Or how about if the Hobbits went off and found a tavern and just got blitzed on pipeweed and mead, ale and cider, and just spent the last of the realm of man's dying days bringing the revolution of footwear to the Shire?

It need not be the end of everything, you cry, as you decide that the story of the Lich who would plunge the world into darkness is only that way so the DM can be a dick, not because he wrote his story that way.

I'd love to see you as He-Man in a Masters of the Universe game. Just, walking away from Castle Greyskull to pursue your craft brewing and oh no Skeletor just captured Castle Greyskull, and is awaiting you there. But you're too busy with the intricacies of micro-brewing, so you ignore him, until he becomes all powerful and just straight up squashes you like a bug.

>> No.49604823
File: 111 KB, 497x640, 1565498148.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49604823

>>49604791
>actions shouldn't have consequences: the post

>> No.49604850
File: 17 KB, 300x100, 175.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49604850

>>49604791

>> No.49605043

>>49604806
Notice how those examples are from non-interactive media. When you're GMing, you should be trying to create a story with your players.

>>49604823
>>49604850
I bet you think you're very clever when you force players to fall in no-save, just die traps.
>"I warned you it would be a very dangerous campaign."

>> No.49605048
File: 335 KB, 1350x900, josh rolls nat 1 on romance.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49605048

Just yesterday one of my party members went to hit on a local half-elf girl, me playing the half-elf of course.

He succeeds some for fun checks and ends up winning her affection and then we all had a good chuckle at his shitty pickup lines that end up working, but then..

He looks me in the eye and says "okay now I want to fuck her, haha."

>Uh what?

"yeah let's have sex! haha. I close the door and start to unbutton her shirt"

>what is happening? why are you doing this?

"hey! I won the check so let's do this"


Then he proceeded to sweet talk me with everyone else nervously laughing

then we fucked irl


this is entirely a true story.

>> No.49605070
File: 228 KB, 640x486, 1453024263786.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49605070

>>49605043

>> No.49605082

>>49605070
you are an ass hat

>> No.49605085
File: 2.92 MB, 315x200, 1470979465568.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49605085

>>49605043
>You

>> No.49605093
File: 91 KB, 600x450, StrawMan1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49605093

>>49605043
>Players gather information, they are still low-level
>Hear of a raiding party of orcs coming toward the village from a couple of lumberjacks, who warn them about the orcs
>Players go in gung-ho, without bothering to buy potions or any useful item and without preparing any ambushes, nothing
>the 16 orcs proceed to knock them out and capture them when they are attacked
>players bitch and cry

I'm glad that I don't have players like you in my groups. The entitlement is strong with your type.

>> No.49605195

>Oh no, paladin, but for failing to explicitly tell me that you secured your belongings, and thus it is your fault for being neglectful, a flask of acid that NPC gave you but moments ago has slipped from your sack and burned a large hole in the dam below! You must either push that NPC, a portulent man, to his death to block the hole in the dam, and only the portulent man will do, or flood a small village!
>You fall no matter what you do.
>Actions have consequences!

>> No.49605333

>>49605093
Should your players have known that it was an encounter that they could not handle in straight combat, with indications that it would not be like the previous encounters you gave them that presumably did not require extensive prep i.e. did they know that a certain number of orcs would be very dangerous to the party and that the raid was probably near or above that? Were you always planning to have just 16 orcs, or were you going to make it so that it would always be more than they could handle?

If you give the players the information they need and make the challenge reasonably beatable, then it's fine. Otherwise, you're a cunt DM.

Your pic is a fine representation of your post.

>> No.49605351

>>49605043

>>49604806
>>49604850
These are me.
>>49604823
He's not me.

Just an FYI

>Anyways
>Non-interactive media
>But also inspired much of D&D
>Maybe not Masters of the Universe so much
>But I mean, Barbarian and Lich amirite?

Anyways, I have never used a trap without a save, and none that just instantly kill you. You seem to be confusing being a shitty player yourself with what a competent DM would do. Must be hard for you to find games if you're willing to argue so long over the right to never let bad things happen to characters. I'm not going to go out of my way to target a character's family, or even target them if convenient. I make clever villains, not dime store Snidely Whiplash or a thick-skulled Dan Backslide.

Advice: Design your Villainous structure from the top down.

Example: Make a god a villain, and then work your way down subordinate-wise. High Priest, his Council, their Ecclesiastical subordinates, their special case antagonists, the minor foes, and of course, the minions.

This gives you lots of opportunities and lots of enemies you can throw at your players for them to get stronger.

>> No.49605362
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49605362

>>49605195

>> No.49605371
File: 40 KB, 941x454, 1360457923435.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49605371

>>49605333

>> No.49605382
File: 180 KB, 445x290, ASSuming.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49605382

>>49605333
>assuming all the bad things

>> No.49605395

>>49605382
You, I like.

>> No.49605402
File: 367 KB, 319x155, 126546309.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49605402

>>49605395

>> No.49605408

>>49605333
>If you give the players the information they need
>give
Fuck off with that, they have to actually go looking for their information.

>> No.49605424

>>49605408
Don't bother trying to explain shit to him, anon. That guy has one of the biggest cases of player entitlement I have seen.

>> No.49605446

>>49605424
>player entitlement

nice meme, bra

>> No.49605469
File: 26 KB, 600x375, 1448550767586.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49605469

>>49605446
Nice counterarguments m8

>> No.49605488
File: 22 KB, 480x360, ThatsInteresting.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49605488

>>49605446
>I'm so glad I'm not you
>I'd be so sad all the time
>Because no one would like me

>> No.49605555

>>49603935
Fuck off weeaboo

>> No.49605582

>>49596787
All the more accurate

>> No.49605618

>>49596787
>>49605582
Water?
Never touch the stuff.
Fish piss in it.

>> No.49605707 [SPOILER] 
File: 1.24 MB, 2560x1536, 1475420697694.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49605707

For the record:
In that story where they decided to legalize gay marriage instead of preventing the evil lich from rising?
Literally the only thing the GM did wrong was the fiat ending.
He absolutely should have had the Lich, empowered by the darkness, face the weakened kingdom and the PCS in a nearly hopeless battle.
But even a glimmer of a chance is hope. And even if they tried to protect their new kingdom and failed, it would have been the players doing rather than the GM.
But in the end he didn't do that.
He said, "Lich falls, everyone dies."
And he did it because he thought it would be funny.
And it is.
But it makes him an ass.

If you ignore spiders around your house because you have more important things to do, don't be surprised when they start coming inside the house.

>> No.49605806

>>49605351
>>>But also inspired much of D&D
Who cares? The difference is in how one experiences it; when playing DnD, you expect to play a part in making the story, not just observe it.

>Must be hard for you to find games if you're willing to argue so long over the right to never let bad things happen to characters.
The strawmen are numerous. I have never said that bad things should not happen, only that DMs should not contrive situations that are ultimately unbeatable. For example, a boss fight that the players are expected to lose? Fine, as long as that is not the end and the players have a chance to lick their wounds and continue. Even an absolutely unbeatable boss or situation is fine as long as it is made clear to your players that you are going to use that narrative device and that it is used as a way to advance the story, not to get one over on your players, and that it's not the very end of the story. I cannot fathom how it is that you and others seem to think that writing
>and then zombies came and ate everyone. The end.
is an entertaining way to end a campaign and not just a gotcha moment the DM made so that they could feel clever.

>>49605408
>Fuck off with that, they have to actually go looking for their information.
Did you make it clear that this is the kind of campaign you're trying to run, that every encounter is very dangerous and that things need to be extensively prepared for with traps and such, and had run it that way before then? Or did you set them up with a bunch of bog-standard encounters and then hit them out of left field? If the latter, then of course your players will complain; you set them up to fail so that you could look clever.

>> No.49605837
File: 295 KB, 472x455, This one.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49605837

>>49605707
Words of wisdom right there

>> No.49605849

>>49605707
I agree; it's the thing I was arguing for from the very start.

>> No.49606001

>>49605707
Unless he was pretty well finished with those players for one reason or another, and decided to throw their off-the-rails hijinks back in their faces, since they never actually gave any attention to the original game they'd agreed on.

I'd say let it fall as bad players hijacking a campaign for sandbox goofball and a DM ending it by letting the world end. When you get right down to it, it's the DM's world, and they decide how their world ends. So the DM decided they were done with this campaign since no one actually gave a single shit, let alone two fucks, and ended it in Lich Darkness.

Granted, letting them face the Lich and die would also have worked, but I think it would have just pissed the players off worse. Especially if it was just a glimmer of hope that was then dashed by the Lich's cold dead hands. Either way, hopeless fight or Undead Army OHKO, the players are going to be upset, and it's their own fault for derailing entirely.

Once those spiders are in, you gotta deal with them one way or another.

>> No.49606006

>>49605806
Not the guy you are arguing with but
>The strawmen are numerous. I have never said that bad things should not happen, only that DMs should not contrive situations that are ultimately unbeatable.
Can you tell me where anyone said that should happen unironically?

>I cannot fathom
Personally I was arguing for the very important rule "Actions have consequences".
Taking the example of the zombies and the lich killing everyone in the Gay Kingdom: personally, I wouldn't have done that. I wouldn't have said "Lich falls, everyone dies"
I would've said
>As you're signing the law, the clouds gather and you see from the horizon a massive army of skeletons march toward you, slaughtering anyone they find before them.
And then I would've let them roll for initiative and fight a Lich who is prepared for them, with a massive army of undead.
Of course, the probability that they survive would probably be about 0,000000390625% give or take, but they could potentially make it.

>Did you make it clear that this is the kind of campaign you're trying to run, that every encounter is very dangerous and that things need to be extensively prepared for with traps and such, and had run it that way before then?
>Assuming that GMs don't do that.
I am a bit rustled now, because it seems that you're selectively ignoring what has been written. There already have been anons that argued that they make it clear with the party that there is an ancient evil and that they want the players to be damn big heroes. Why would they omit telling the players about the grittiness of their setting? Can't you give your fellow GMs the benefit of the doubt, for once?

>> No.49606104

>>49606006
>Can you tell me where anyone said that should happen unironically?
Everyone who thought it was a good idea for the DM to decide that the lich just ups and wins.

>>I am a bit rustled now, because it seems that you're selectively ignoring what has been written. There already have been anons that argued that they make it clear with the party that there is an ancient evil and that they want the players to be damn big heroes. Why would they omit telling the players about the grittiness of their setting? Can't you give your fellow GMs the benefit of the doubt, for once?
Perhaps they could do me the courtesy first of not strawmanning me by claiming I said that there should be retcons or that actions should not have consequences. Regardless, I have always phrased it as "if you do this, then it's fine" and not simply assumed the worst.

>> No.49606189

>>49605806
>when playing DnD, you expect to play a part in making the story, not just observe it.
And there's a difference between playing a part in making a story, and seizing the story in both hands and refusing to share.

>I have never said that bad things should not happen, only that DMs should not contrive situations that are ultimately unbeatable.

Oh boy, never played any Call of Cthulu eh? "If it's statted, we should be able to fight/kill it!"
Listen, sometimes your players are going to go ahead and stick their heads into a Lion's maw. You can't just expect that things will work out alright if you try to jump headfirst into a fight with an enemy, especially one much more powerful.

>is an entertaining way to end a campaign and not just a gotcha moment the DM made so that they could feel clever.
It is when your campaign was supposed to end with the heroes triumphant, having prevented the blood circle from being made and cast under the light of the moon aligning with Jupiter. Not when Darkness Falls across the land. You're such a moron that you think the DM suddenly went, aha! I know what'll end those dastardly players! I'll use my powers of fiat to make the Lich kill everyone! Instead of how it went, where the Lich kidnapped orphans, murdered them, and used their blood and souls to summon eternal night. As part of his plan. That was in place from the start. You don't just stop doing what needs to be done because you don't want to. How about if Frodo went, "nah, too hard/timeconsuming." And gave the ring to that guy in the woods. And then went to become a chef, until Sauron wiped everything off the face of the world. It wasn't a last minute change or addition; that was going to be the worst case scenario where the party did not actually succeed. And they did not.

>> No.49606195

>>49606104
I'm fairly sure that if you ask those people if they would give the players a fighting chance, even if they would have to survive unbeatable odds, they would tell you that they would.

I also agree that players should have a shot at saving themselves. Not a reasonable one, since they fucked up everything for everyone ever, but one last strike to make things right.

>> No.49606202

>>49587646
I just realized what bothered me about this greentext.

It implies that the only guys who even can stop the lich are the players. Especially if they are low-level adventurers, that doesn't make a lot of sense. Why would some low-levels be the ones that save the kingdom from undead menace, not some veteran adventurers with magic +2 gear?

The DM should have taken that into account and make some more specific problem that arises from their action, rather than inaction.

>> No.49606233
File: 35 KB, 600x525, 1565498145.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49606233

>>49606202
Pray tell, where does it say that the characters are low level?

>> No.49606255

>>49606189
>>And there's a difference between playing a part in making a story, and seizing the story in both hands and refusing to share.
The DM of that greentext story went along with it, without any indication that he either talked to the party that he disagreed with what they were doing or that he hinted that the original story was ongoing at all, quite possibly because he wanted to set up his gotcha moment.

>Oh boy, never played any Call of Cthulu eh?
The expectations are clear from the start, then, that some things are unbeatable.

>> No.49606294

>>49606233
>Start campaign
>One of the players ask if gay marriage is legal in the kingdom

It very much implies they just started out. And unless they started at level 7 or something right off the bat.

>>49606202
Taking this point further, a good GM/DM should only rarely punish inaction, because campaigns are long and players might forget things while they're playing.

Giving actions consequences is much better than giving inaction consequences, because even though inaction is just as important in the real world, in game of fantasyland it's kind of petty. GM makes all the choices what they can do apparent, so inaction can then mean that the GM did their job about explaining the action badly.

>> No.49606351
File: 619 KB, 820x1625, 1374971770449.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49606351

>>49606104
Sometimes bad guys win; get over it.

>if you do this, then it's fine
You clearly showed in your suggestions that it should have just been happily ever after, or the DM would have to nerf and re-do everything specifically to ensure that the party that ignored the main BBEG, the primary antagonist(come on!), would have a chance against them AFTER the Lich and his UNCHALLENGED SKELETON ARMY plunged the world into ETERNAL DARKNESS and attacked a kingdom heavily weakened through a straight up CIVIL WAR.
You're just, you're not understanding progression. You're assuming that the DM would have just "done that" and it would have been fine. But you're ignoring player choice at that point, so it would no longer matter. Whatever the DM did to prevent the party from facing the consequences of letting a Lich cause at least ten years of darkness, would ultimately have stripped it of any value in the first place.
I mean, clearly you either improv your whole campaign start to finish, or you just don't DM, in which case you're an entitled little prick player.

>> No.49606357
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49606357

>>49606294
>unless they started at level 7
That's not as rare as you think it is.

>Taking this point further, a good GM/DM should only rarely punish inaction, because campaigns are long and players might forget things while they're playing.
If the premise of the campaign is to be big damn heroes and the GM hits it off with someone tasking your group to go and kill a lich before he becomes too powerful to be stopped, then the consequence of not stopping the lich would, logically, be that it finally ammasses an army of skellies and goes on to take over the world/kill everyone/whatever.

>can then mean that the GM did their job about explaining the action badly.
>assuming that the GM explained the thing badly
I think we talked about this already? Assuming?

In my opinion, both action and inaction should have consequences dependant on their importance. You don't care about the bandits on the road and insist on going with the caravan anyway, unprepared and with shitty gear?
You better believe that there's going to be rolls regarding a random encounter with that very same group of bandits.

>> No.49606460

>>49605395
>>49605402
oh yeah fuck me harder

>> No.49606515
File: 506 KB, 1280x1024, 1378376823042.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49606515

>>49606255
He found the players for the game, and he told them in the beginning. Generally the first things the DM says to describe your setting/world/etc. are very important and should have attention paid to. I've had players who will completely ignore that first bit while I do it, and then look up from their phones confused, and even my players will call each other out on not paying attention. One really bad time, back in high school, no one, and I mean no one, could remember in the second session who the main bad guy was, who the party had agreed to work for, or even the town they were in. Attention is important, and maybe all it would have taken was a player to wonder aloud: "Hey, whatever happened with that Lich guy?"

As for this:
>The expectations are clear from the start, then, that some things are unbeatable.
What exactly would you classify a Tarrasque as? What kind of power would a Lich have if they gained bonuses from Darkness and had just ushered in minimum one year of 24 hour darkness? How about an Ancient Wyrm(or whatever the vernacular is for most powerful dragon these days)? Face it, when you blow your shot, you blow your shot.

>> No.49606549

>>49606351
>the only way to respect player choice is to make the Koch kill everyone without player input!

Ha. Hahahah. HahahshahahshshshshshshzhzhzhdjxjI'm literally seizing at how much I'm laughing.

>> No.49606567

>>49606460
When I reply to this post, does it show which ones are me? Or do I have to click both like this:
>>49605402
>>49605395
In order for it show which one is me?

>> No.49606589
File: 25 KB, 600x471, koch_brothers.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49606589

>>49606549
>Greeting from the Koch
>Both of them

>> No.49606702
File: 1.77 MB, 450x253, 1413758543245.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49606702

>One of the PCs swallowed an NPC whole
>Not even magically, she literally grabbed the poor girl and stuffed her down her throat

WEEEW

>> No.49606709

>>49606357
>I think we talked about this already? Assuming?
I think it has been talked about on various cases, but this is generalization. Either the GM has not explained their thing interestingly enough (people are not paying attention) or the GM needs to call them to pay attention. Of course, not paying attention is seriously a dickhole thing to do, but it should be addressed immediately instead of punishing for it multiple sessions later.

But that's just semantics and etiquette.

>In my opinion, both action and inaction should have consequences dependant on their importance. You don't care about the bandits on the road and insist on going with the caravan anyway, unprepared and with shitty gear?
You better believe that there's going to be rolls regarding a random encounter with that very same group of bandits.

That really depends though. Usually players are not as bright as GM thinks them to be, and even if they pay attention, they might still miss some "obvious" choice the GM puts in front of them.

And with the bandit example, it's a little different, due to it being inaction toward a reaction of their previous action.

From what I understood:

>They sign up for a caravan
>They hear that there's a group of bandits on the road
>Still go with the caravan and don't re-equip themselves even if they could

The warning about the bandits comes in accordance to their choice to go on a caravan, not just floating in the air.

In the lich scenario:

>Characters are thrown into a scenario
>Along the scenario they hear about a lich
>They get extremely sidetracked, forget lich's existence
>Lich falls everyone dies

Of course, that's still assuming, but that's what the greentext gave me. The lich was actually a wholly separate thread in the game that they were playing, players needing to go out of their way to go fight them. It wasn't an immediate threat, just some rumor that culminated several sessions later as an instakill.

>> No.49606719
File: 71 KB, 927x380, 1453019841958.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49606719

>>49606549
As a longterm DM, I speak from knowledge when I point out that you have all the classic symptoms of being a bitch. You see, when someone fucks up, that's what known as a mistake. Usually little mistakes are fine. But big mistakes can be costly. Why, just look at this player who created a Drow Sorceror character for a Forgotten Realms campaign. I mentioned that the Spellplague drives casters insane, or kills them outright, so good luck with that! Or this friend here, who, despite knowing that the game would take place in a land of Gnomes, has made a Kobold rogue. Enjoy being lynched and murdered for being a racially despised creature.

So when you're trying to argue that the DM having a Lich kill everyone because they did nothing to try to stop his evil ascending, what more can they do against impossible odds? Oh yes, they can change everything just for you, you special little snowflake. Enjoy beating up the Lich lite, a foe specially weakened just for players like you.

Because when you're incapable of functioning as a player, you can always rely on your DM to wipe your nose, wipe your ass, and softball goblins for you.

>> No.49606803

>>49606709
Hiya, this was all in regards to this greentext story here:
>>49590900
In which the GM told the players about the Lich who was gonna perform some ritual and usher in eternal darkness.

>Thus began the self shitting assumptions that the DM specifically set out to be a "dick" and "ruin" a derailed session
>This achieved by the Lich they were told about in the very beginning being soundly and roundly ignored
>Resulting in OHKO Auto-TPK
>Now strangers are crusading for those poor, traumatized players
>The ones who died because the DM is just a big mean ol' bully
>Not because Liches aren't bitches

>> No.49606838
File: 557 KB, 1014x3387, 10TGCommandmandmentsForGMS.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49606838

>>49606709
Alright, let me address it this way: I like how STORYTIEM puts it, very aptly.

Stupidity begets stupidity.
Actions have consequences.
Stupid actions also have consequences.

Let's have another example:
>campaign starts with characters low-mid level (5-6 something)
>the king asks for their help in dealing with an enemy duke who is ammassing an army to conquer the kingdom
>players are fucking idiots and start going on about sjw shit like gay marriage
>the game goes on like in the other greentext
>the day they finally make a democracy and legalize gay marriage the evil duke comes over with his army, several months earlier because he doesn't need a lot of men, since, you know, the kingdom is already weakened because of the shitty infighting
>the players are slaughtered in the ensuing fight
>yadda yadda

This is how I would play it because I want the players to make their own decisions: they are big enough, they can do what they want. Occasionally I will throw them a reminder of the situation with the duke (an NPC asking them what they should do regarding him and his ambitions to conquer the kingdom) but if the players are FUCKING IDIOTS then they are going to get what's coming for them.

>> No.49606839

>>49606104

>Everyone who thought it was a good idea for the DM to decide that the lich just ups and wins.

>Just ups and wins

>Just

If I make a campaign where the enemy is quite clearly one with a long term plan and not horribly retarded then having it NOT win when the PC's play bullshit crusades would be even more logic breaking.

He's either powerful enough that, given enough time, he will fuck something up (world, town, PC's waifu) thus warranting the attentions of aspiring murderhobo's in the first place.

Or he's so fucking inept that the PC's still have a chance of beating him even when they've literally given him free reign for 'insert x period of time here'. In which case he was never really that credible a threat to begin with.

>> No.49607427

>>49606803
>>49606838
My point was that it was a dick move to let the players forget the lich and out of pettiness kill them all several sessions later; for all they know, some other group of adventurers could have killed the lich (due to the "What the fuck DM?!" reaction of one of the players. It implies that they never heard of the lich again before they got OHKO'd).

As I said in my post, not paying attention and ignoring plothooks should be resolved BEFORE the CULMINATION OF THE ONGOING CAMPAIGN. Like, I'm not saying the DM was a straight-up bully, I just say that his method of dealing with derailing play was immature and petty at best. Killing all of the player characters due to them ignoring a single plot thread in the first session that never came up again is a disproportionate and sudden punishment for a relatively minor thing (You have to take into account that they really got into the intrigue and the campaign in general apparently, the passing mention of the lich was probably less than 1% of the ongoing game). I don't care if he planned 70 pages of backstory for Gigabad Skellyfucker if the actions of the BBEG never took form before everyone is killed.

The DM should have advised the players to take care of the threat, like in the duke example, have them get some problems from a rising amount of undead in the kingdom's premises or something that explicitly implies that there is some Skellyfucker on the loose.

>> No.49607477

Oh boy have I got a story for you.

>Cyberpunk 2020
>One of our friends was playing a mad scientist, he's kind of fucked up in real life so we thought it would work
>We were either right, or very, very wrong.
>He decides to start up a science experiment, didn't really tell us what it was. Asks the party to bring him a pregnant woman.
>I didn't like where this was going, so I decided to stay out of it. He was offering up a lot of money though, so most of us went along with it.
>So they bring her the woman, she has no idea what's going on, and they're all just standing in the middle of the street.
>Mad scientist looks over at her and says "Hello!" before forcefully ripping her fetus out of her with his cyberlimbs, killing her in the process.
>Says "Goodbye!" and walks out of the room.
>The room is dead quiet, mad scientist just smiling like an idiot. We sit there in silence for a full minute.
>He starts talking about what experiment he was doing, and it was pretty much straight up Evangelion.
>DM has to take a break after that. The first time I had seen this man actually be disturbed by what has happened in a game.
>We eventually continued the game until the mad scientist tried to open up the world's most efficient abortion clinic. Never played again after that.

We no longer encourage him to play insane characters.

>> No.49607536

>>49606719
The campaign continues another way: the city has a desperate holding action while the party searches for an artifact to reverse the ritual, or something like that. Or, hey, why not drop the whole lich thing because clearly no one but the DM gave two shits about it and let the players enjoy that they played a more social-minded and political campaign.

>>49606838
>sjw shit
And this is really what it's all about, isn't it.

>>49606839
See the first part of the post.

>> No.49608109
File: 475 KB, 580x646, 1465259428052.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49608109

Every character was fucking every other character in my online game. They'd flirt when our characters were traveling, and make a point to pair off into rooms. The cavalier was fucking the bard. The gunslinger was fucking the ranged fighter.

Meanwhile, I'm the wizard with a ring of sustenance, so I spend all my nights at a private table in the inn, planning things and putting together scrolls, taking a quick two hour nap on the table, then getting coffee together for the group to come down in the morning, all talking about how the bard was sore and whatnot.

Apparently, they were erping in private chat, and the GM had them roll a few things, and eventually half the party got pregnant. The game fell apart for irl work reasons. Now, we're playing a new game, and the other players are all playing children of the previous party. I'm playing a new character cause I think my wizard might have died a virgin.

>> No.49608129

>>49603836
most incidents aren't between strangers, and occur behind closed doors

Imagine someone the victim knows and trusts, maybe even someone the victim loves, betraying that trust in the most horrific way imaginable, reducing the victim to a mere thing to satiate themselves. The attacker put the victim on the same level as a sex toy and made the victim feel totally powerless.

And if the victim becomes pregnant as a result of it things become much, much worse. When a woman becomes pregnant, her body and hormone chemistry change forever. Moreover, she will also have to choose between terminating the pregnancy and keeping in. In the US, there is so much extra crap burdened around this that it is painful even in non-rape situations, and in some states it is illegal to perform an abortion even in the case of a miscarriage or if the mother's life is in jeopardy.

And what if the victim tells others? It happened behind closed doors; it will be the victim's word against their attacker's. Evidence might exist of the entry, but what of the lack of consent? What evidence exists for that? The attacker will argue in a court of law in front of a jury, the families, and others that the victim "wanted" this to happen to them. As if it were even possible to want such a thing. The worst part? It works a lot of the time. History gets re-written in the courtroom and the victim is told that they did in fact want it. It is a terrifying prospect isn't it?

While men cannot become pregnant, they have their own special issues around it. Male rape victims are seen as a joke by society. The victim feels shame in addition to everything that they were robbed of their masculinity, and if the attacker was female, male victims can almost never convince anyone that it was actually an attack, and are often laughed off.

>> No.49608658

>>49603899
A. English longbow which he sucked at but still managed a kill
B. It was a fucking claymore
C. ANOTHER dude with the exact same set up stormed the beach on D-day and lived to tell about it with kills and medals

I'd have to find them and i'm currently busy but WWII had TONS of these kinda of bastards right down to a german soldier who held of a few hundred soldiers by cobbling together a makeshift checkpoint from random debris and forest materials and then patrolled around making it seem busy as fuck. I can't remember who was trying to sneak past without tripping alarms but they apparently only saw the dude outside of buildings at night so know one knew his "rifle" was actually just a shovel cause his bro's fucking stole his supplies and rifle before leaving him outside in winter.

>> No.49609613

>>49606202
Because that's how it always works.
What is the point of having the characters work against the big bad when they aren't necessary?

>> No.49609639

>>49609613

Not any of them, but I had a campaign once where we lost because another adventuring group defeated the BBEG before we got around to it.

>> No.49610315

>>49609639

What the fuck kind of shit GM would do something that shitastic?

>> No.49610520

>>49610315
As has been pretty much explained in this thread, the shittiness of the GM in that scenario is inversely related to the amount of clues, warnings, and awareness the PCs had.

If they knew it was time sensitive and dicked around anyway, they deserve it.
Also, it could be used to set up the rival team as antagonists.

>> No.49610624 [SPOILER] 
File: 758 KB, 2560x1920, 1475445320294.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49610624

>>49605837
>>49605849
Thanks

>>49606001
>Once those spiders are in, you gotta deal with them one way or another.
By then, it's far too late.
Pic related

>> No.49610702

>>49610315
Don't talk about Adam that way. He's a damn fine GM

>>49610520


He actually gave us a lot of clues, pretty much every time we went back to a town or village, we got some sort of story as to what one of the major hero groups (or ourselves) were up to.

The problem is, at least where I personally was sitting, is that it was so against the grain of something that a DM would do that I honestly never realized he would go there. Yeah, I mean, I knew that other bands were fighting against the same cult that we were, but I thought that at the kill, it would be us, because narrativium.

So while we weren't endlessly dicking around, we did stall and over prepare far more so than we actually needed to beat the BBEG, and we let destiny slip between our fingers.

>> No.49610864
File: 990 KB, 500x376, afraid.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49610864

>>49610624
What am I looking at here?

>> No.49611011

>>49610864
Spider bite on an ankle.
Many resources state there are no brown recluses in Western NY.
They are wrong.

>> No.49611370
File: 14 KB, 744x628, sla 1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49611370

>>49590943
I didn't read the whole thread before i posted (sorry)

>> No.49611442

>>49611011
Many sources say brown recluses aren't in a lot of places like your boots or bed or that one area you're hand or toes currently inhabit. These are also wrong.

>> No.49612153

>>49611011
Ew

>> No.49613063

>>49596756
Only 50% of people find rape fun.

>> No.49613123

>>49613063
Less than 50% of people are human.

>> No.49613594

>>49613063
Well, studies find arousal happens in females during rape in almost all cases and of those that can't claim this they can claim unconciousness.
So its probably higher than 50% and I don't know off the top of my head the exact stat of penetration on male rape but minus that and you should get the stat of how many people actually enjoy rape.

>> No.49614118

>>49613594
>the stat of how many people actually enjoy rape
Well, going by the information, studies, and reports of 4chan, it would be approximately 110%.

>> No.49614167

>>49614118
It IS the biggest by far female fetish statistically speaking.

>> No.49614581

>>49587324
>>49603775
You know, thinking about it, Reign of Winter might mark exactly where Pathfinder's Adventure Paths jumped the shark.

>> No.49614763
File: 1.03 MB, 2184x2339, 1367843223659.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49614763

>>49603311
This is the story you guys are talking about?

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