Quantcast
[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / g / ic / jp / lit / sci / tg / vr ] [ index / top / reports / report a bug ] [ 4plebs / archived.moe / rbt ]

If you can see this message, the SSL certificate expiration has been fixed.
Become a Patron!

/tg/ - Traditional Games


View post   

[ Toggle deleted replies ]
File: 166 KB, 1196x668, guard_by_wlop-d9kmnxu.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49037803 No.49037803 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Are all that benefit from a corrupt system guilty? Should the princess pay for the sins of the king?

>> No.49037847

Where were you when you realized that you would never join the royal guard?
Or be a princess

>> No.49037893

>>49037803
No.

>> No.49037896

>>49037803
Is the princess exploiting the system herself or is she disapproving of what her father does without being able to change anything?

In the first case, she is guilty as well. In the second case she is not.

If she doesn't know how corrupt the system is because she isn't allowed to learn anything about it, she is innocent as well until she gets educated about the corrupted system. Then one of the first two cases is the case.

>> No.49037913

>>49037847
You can always join the Grenadier guard. Or the swiss guard if you're a Catholic

>> No.49037917

>>49037803
Yes.

>t. Robespierre

>> No.49037966
File: 51 KB, 500x714, Vb7udEC.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49037966

>>49037803
>Should the princess pay for the sins of the king?
Whether the offspring is culpable matters not.
It's in your best interest to eradicate all possible heirs to the dynasty with extreme prejudice if you don't want a loyalist coup decade down the line.

>> No.49038021

>>49037913
There are no qt3.14 princesses left in the world to guard.

Damn republicans.

>> No.49038044

>>49037896
How can a member of the nobility be born without exploiting the system? By definition, they've earned all they have through blood and without merit.

>> No.49038087

>By now the whole story was known. Herod's curse seemed to rest on all Jews alike: they were utterly unmanned. The Greeks were elated beyond measure. The regiments re-armed by Helcias at Herod's orders behaved in the most shameless and revolting way. They attacked the palace and seized Cypros and her daughters, intending to lead them in mockery through the streets of Caesarea. Cypros snatched a sword from a soldier and killed herself, but her daughters were forced to put on their embroidered dresses and accompany their captors, and even to join in the hymns of thanksgiving sung for their father's death. When the procession ended they were taken to the regimental brothels and subjected there, on the roof-tops, to the grossest outrages and indecencies. And not only in Caesarea but in the Greek city of Samaria too, public banquets were spread in the squares and the Greeks, with garlands on their heads, and sweet-smelling ointments, ate and drank to their hearts' content, toasting each other and pouring libations to the Ferryman. The Jews did not raise a hand or voice in protest. 'Whom God has cursed, is it lawful to succour?' For God's curse was held to descend to a man's children. These princesses were aged only six and ten years when they were so mistreated.

>> No.49038233

>>49038087
Who does this refer to? I know it's from Claudius the God, but I don't know if this particular bit is rooted in history.

>> No.49038259

>>49038233
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herod_Agrippa#Reign_and_death

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drusilla_(daughter_of_Herod_Agrippa)

Graves makes it worse than it actually was. They took the statues of his wife and daughters, not the daughters themselves.

>> No.49038261

>>49037803
They should be stripped of those corrupt benefits, and given the opportunity to better themselves and earn back what they can through honest toil. How they behave before, during, and after this process will be the judge of them.

>> No.49038319

>>49038259
... they fucked the statues?

>> No.49038337

>>49038044
Let me clarify that.
Exploiting as I understand it means knowingly taking advantage of someone or something for personal gain without any regard for the thing they are taking advantage of. A princess that is born into the corrupt royal family did not choose to be in this situation, therefore she isn't automatically guilty. Otherwise it would be alike to the original sin which I call bullshit. Children are not responsible for what their parents and grand parents did and should not suffer for it.

Now about nobility not exploiting the system. Originally, nobility served as leaders and protectors for their country, just that they weren't elected but born to the previous leaders.
That comes from the tribal times when the strongest and smartest people were the tribe leaders, only over time it changed that the leader made sure his son would become the next leader. In medieval times the lords were charged with protecting the people. If there were bandits nearby it was the lords job to drive off or kill the bandits, just as it was the bakers job to make bread.

In short: a wise and beloved noble who cared about the future of his people and his line wouldn't exploit the system. That there are always greedy people that abuse the power their position gives them is true, but if that alone determines that leaders should be punished, every single person in politics nowadays would have to be punished. And also everyone who will ever decide to become a politician. Even the kindhearted soul that wants to change the corrupt system from the inside would have to be punished the moment he decides to join it, simply because he is in a position that enables him to exploit it.

>> No.49038339

>>49038319
I think they came on them, pissed on them, fucked people on them, rubbed whores on them, rubbed their dicks on them, etc, etc. I don't believe the sculptor accommodated them for fucking though.

>> No.49038352

>>49037803
No, but those who seek to perpetuate it when an alternative appears are.

>>49037966
Also this.

>> No.49038364 [SPOILER] 
File: 20 KB, 182x217, 1472385003702.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49038364

>>49037803
Who cares? Just take it all over and make the princess your wife.

>> No.49038390

>>49038337
So you create and enforce checks and balances to politician's power, and you impress upon the common man the importance of holding the great and powerful to account for their actions.

The law should apply to all equally, not just to the weak and the poor.

Of course, by the time you've pushed all those reforms through, you're not talking about a monarchy anymore. You're talking about a republic.

>> No.49038398

>>49038259
I thought that was strange. I recalled Herod's family still having political power. Having his daughters become rape fodder would have surprised me.

>> No.49038417

>>49037803
>inherited sin
>2016
sigh

>> No.49038423

>>49038398
Yeah, they married into Roman power or into other client states. Though the eldest daughter never married successfully and supposedly had an incestuous relationship with her brother (maybe just a rumor spread as she was Titus Caesar's mistress).

>> No.49038566

>>49037917
/thread

>> No.49038612

>>49037803
Burn the royals
Class war now

>> No.49038635
File: 54 KB, 640x400, Kolinda-Grabar-Kitarovic7.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49038635

>>49038021
You could try guarding qt 3.14 presidents instead.

>> No.49038653

>>49038390
a monarchy has the defining trait of a noble family that rules the country with an heritary title. a republic elects its ruler periodically.
so no, it wouldn't be a republic as long as the rule of the country is a family business.

in medival times, god was supposed to be the higher power that holds the rulers responsible for their actions. in d&d terms it would be the force of good and its executives, aka paladins.

speaking in this manner, if you have a LG ruler you don't need to control or keep him in check as much as a LE ruler.

>> No.49038665

>>49038635
She's married though.

>> No.49038729

>>49038665
worth trying anyways, m8

After all, you might me a qt 3.14 secretary and hit it off while guarding the qt 3.14 president

>> No.49038967

>>49037803
No, but when it comes to politics the morality of killing or not killing a single person hardly matters. The princess could die or she could live, either way she'll be irrelevant to the new system. Her living or dying will have no effect on the people of the nation.

>> No.49039008
File: 15 KB, 480x712, 3e2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49039008

>>49038967
>either way she'll be irrelevant to the new system. Her living or dying will have no effect on the people of the nation.

This is bullshit.
refer to
>>49037966

>> No.49039053

>>49037803
Not per se, some are simply too ignorant of the corruption they benefit from. If we take the French Revolution as an example then I'd say the deaths of Louis XVI and Marie-Antoinette were entirely justified (inb4 some contrarian reactionary edgelord), but the death of Louis XVII was an atrocity. He was a child, way too young to even realize to what extent the French bourgeois was oppressed by the Ancien Régime. For such a child a more fitting "punishment" would've been to exile him. Take the throne away, but keep him safe abroad.

A prince(ss) that's old enough to understand the flaws of the system and does nothing to change it, however, shares the sins of her parents.

An example of of a prince turning against the sins of his predecessors would be Philippe Égalité. Early Philippe Égalité, the one who voted for the death of Louis XVI. Not the later one, who indirectly got involved in a pro-Royalist plot and was killed after his butt buddy fled to England.

>> No.49039079

>>49038967
> The usurper has made a coup and taken the throne by force!
> You must help the legitimate heir to take back his throne!
> While the two sides battle, people get fed up and create a Republic.
> Both sides are now perfectly irrelevant.

By the way, why is the "true heir must reclaim his throne" trope so frequent? Sometime I feel like we do believe in divine right...

>> No.49039092

>>49037847
> princess
I'm like one hundred people removed but according to my family tree I am related to some long dead European royalty.
So if half of Europe was to die out, I very well could be a princess.

>> No.49039123
File: 85 KB, 840x623, 1459862739725.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49039123

>>49039079
>By the way, why is the "true heir must reclaim his throne" trope so frequent?
It creates a simple and easy to digest political conflict. "This guy is the rightful heir (who is also a good person overall) and that guy the ursurper (who is also a shit person overall)" is much easier to digest than "there's a republic with this faction and that faction, and both are at war with eachother".

It also helps that most people associate the middle ages with KANGZ 'n QUEENZ, mostly due to ignorance of the many Italian republics.

>> No.49039141

>>49039092
Don't worry, you stand a pretty good chance of inheriting the title after Trump and Putin double-team Europe in WWIII.

Just steer clear of the major US west coast cities until China's out of the picture.

>> No.49039302

>>49039092
Tangentially related:
Apparently i'm like 5 gens from french royalty and owner of some land that technically defaulted to the government some time ago.
Main issue is some idiot awhile back ran away from home and came back with a pregnant wife only to have 2 more pregnant women show up one year after the other piggyback with kids claiming they were his and some snafu happened where he went and took the mainbitch to canada. Even have a town with our name on it somewhere up north with like 300 people directly related to the guy.
Now if either family wants to claim the title they gotta disprove the other 2's claim or some shit. Only reason they haven't is:
A. The other 2 technically illegitimate families live in europe and don't communicate amongst themselves let alone to us here in america
B. The land is no longer ours as previously mentioned
C. The name doesn't confer anything really as it was won in a contest of skill and bestowed and if we attempt to make any claim beyond have a coat of arms on our fireplace mantle they'd just denounce us
D. the main family in majority has no idea this is a thing and the rest of us don't give a shit
E. We have all records to prove we're the legitimate line and the other 2 know it
So we just let it lie.
Hell i'm only like 1/32th french if the family trees to be believed.
I guess what i'm saying is i'll be your knight if you'll be my princess.

>> No.49039374

>>49039123
I guess. What I am saying is that we have no reason to assume the prince/princess is more legitimate than whatever vizir or duke unless we do believe in the legitimacy of bloodline.
I suppose the prince/princess being young help getting sympathy points against middle aged vizir with a goatee...
It may also come with the "return to status quo" ideal, if everything is at "its place" (= the king on his throne) everything is ok.

Though it seems that each regime has their caricatural themes they cannot escape : Kingdoms have succession issues, Empires are tyrannical, Democracies are ALWAYS corrupted...

>> No.49039434

>>49037803
How is this /tg/? This is clearly just fucking /pol/.

>> No.49039446

>>49039434
Is this an attempt at a false flag?

>> No.49039487

>>49039079
>>49039374
I must point out, I've seen more and more attempts at subverting this. In Arslan Senki the crown prince and protagonist is not in fact the king's legitimate son and the villain is the former king's trueborn heir who was left for dead and went into exile, but people would prefer to see the protagonist on the throne instead of the current king or the legitimate heir because the latter are assholes.

>> No.49039499

>>49039434
Quit false flag signalling. It's sad and will ruin a perfectly good thread.

>> No.49039509

>>49039446
>hey /tg/ let me ask you this political/moral question with absolutely no connection to traditional gaming
This is fucking /pol/ and does not belong here.

>> No.49039545

>>49039008
I suppose so, but my point that her life is just a drop in the bucket on this scale still stands. If the coup is successful enough you could stick her in a castle somewhere with the option to live a slightly shittier upper class lifestyle or to fucking die if she tries to get uppity.

>> No.49039546

>>49039509
>I don't like this thread so NO ONE should like this thread as such it shouldn't exist
>WAAAHH!

>> No.49039596

>>49039546
Board police, as always, are here and trying to shitpost until all /tg/ related discussion is gone.

>> No.49039597

>>49039509
So to me you're like, trying to make this a thing to legitimize other threads that actually are /pol/? Is that right? This thread is a far cry from "how do we get rid of all the niggers, sorry, I mean "goblins"".

This thread is fine.

>> No.49039659
File: 63 KB, 499x294, mia-vampire-academy.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49039659

>>49037847
>tfw you'll never be a lady like princess, with a legion of chivalrious knight to protect you

It hurts, /tg/

>> No.49039674

>>49039374
In medieval politics, one becomes a "legitimate" ruler by murdering anyone who argues otherwise.

>> No.49039744

>>49039597
I don't know what kind of nonsense is making you think that "This /pol/ thread doesn't belong on /tg/ because it's literally completely unrelated to traditional gaming" actually means "I really want people to make more /pol/ threads on /tg/" but I am completely earnest in my absolute hatred of shitposting like this clogging up the board.

This topic has /nothing/ to do with traditional games. It is literally just a political and moral question. There's not even any pretense that this is related to some specific situation that happened in a game, it's just /pol/ openly shitposted on the board.

>> No.49039803

>>49039744
>Clogging up MY board
>MY board
Yeah, okay there little guy.

>> No.49039845

>>49039803
>but I am completely earnest in my absolute hatred of shitposting like this clogging up the board.
I did not even say that you fucking retard.

>> No.49039851

>>49037803
In general - yes.
If you lead a revolution, you don't half-ass it. A heir can be easily used by counter-revolutionaries as a symbol. Of course, you can always kill off all those that could potentially lead a counter-revolution, in this case allies of the current royal family, but then why would you not kill the only remaining member of the royal family itself?

>> No.49039981

>>49038390
Problem: the view looks different from the top than it does from the bottom.

The people might not have the full picture, they can usually only see what is around them, while the ruler sees most of or the entire country, and foreign matters too. That leads to two entirely different decision making processes.

So it ends up being a case where what the people think is right is not actually right, and may in fact be completely wrong.

>> No.49040074

>>49039744
Fuck off to /b/ with your offtopic shitposts.

>> No.49041859
File: 959 KB, 480x270, hello darkness my old friend, I've come to talk with you again.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
49041859

>>49038417
Do the theologians not say that we are all born sinners?

How is this any different?

>> No.49041936

>>49041859
That's just a way of expressing man's inherent ability to do evil. It's not the same as being guilty of something your dad did.

>> No.49041937

>>49038044

Being born into a system doesn't make you responsible for its creation.

>> No.49042006

>>49038665
nice adherence to the code of chivalric love there mate, you would make a terrible member of a royal guard.

>> No.49042032

>>49039744
questions about the functions and ideology of a medieval and fantasy societies are generally accepted on /tg/
These questions often emerge from the situations that players and game masters find themselves in during games.

>> No.49042055

>>49041937
If I have eaten every day food stolen from another man's table, and I was aware of this fact, I owe that man restitution.

>>
Name (leave empty)
Comment (leave empty)
Name
E-mail
Subject
Comment
Password [?]Password used for file deletion.
Captcha
Action