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[ERROR] No.48655247 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

What does /tg/ think of the new 40k starter set?

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NO/Warhammer-40000-Death-Masque-ENG

>> No.48655290

>>48655247
That kit seems to be blatantly favoring the marines in terms of power.

>> No.48655330

>>48655290

They always do. Little Timmy likes Marines. Little Timmy likes to win. GW want to train Little Timmy to think in terms of winning by having a better army than the other player. That will make Little Timmy want to buy more models.

>> No.48655655

>>48655247
Most tempting starter set I've ever seen, if only for the fact that it has spess elves in it. I would have preferred vanilla spess elves, though.

>> No.48655675

>>48655247
For whats meant to be a starter set those models seem a whole lot more difficult to paint than the Black reach ones.

>> No.48655762

>>48655675
Little Timmy isn't expected to paint all those models. Just buy more expensive models until Timmy gets bored and moves on to vidya games or some other hobby.

>> No.48655770

>>48655247
I'm tempted to get it just for the new Eldrad model.
Brings me hope that GW will upgrade other old as fuck Eldar models. Shit like aspect warriors, and especially phoenix lords, desperately need new sprues.

>> No.48655783

>>48655247
Not a starter set, but it still looks pretty great - it's a [email protected] style box-with-a-"game" that's really just a bundle, rather than an actual starter, Dark Vengence still has its own section.

Shame on you for trying to pretend otherwise

>> No.48655802

>>48655675

Primer + three colours is all that GW ask.

>> No.48655810

>>48655762
Holy fuck you need to get a grip

>> No.48655859

>>48655810

Shill harder, blackshirt.

>> No.48655917

>>48655247
I don't really like Deathwatch and I'm not too much into Harlequins at this time.

>> No.48656019

>>48655247
I like Deathwatch so I'm pretty excited about everything at the moment. Haven't painted Harlequins before so I'm looking forward to giving that a bash.

>> No.48656030

never understood why people like space marines so much.
I find them generic and bland

>> No.48656038

>>48655810
As long as he doesn't get a grip on little Timmy if you know what I mean.

By which I of course mean doesn't get him hooked on the plastic crack.

>> No.48656044

>>48656030
People like generic and bland things because they are easy to get.

>> No.48656112

>>48656030

Marysnow Sueflake detected.

>> No.48656139

>>48656112
every other race in 40k interesting than space marines.
I find orks the most interesting though

>> No.48656167

>>48656030
>>48656044
0/10
Really, try harder.

>> No.48656220

>>48656139
>I find orks the most interesting though
>literally just mordor in space
All of the races in 40k are bland.

>> No.48656235

>>48655247
So anyway, Death Masque. Please talk me out of buying it, because I think I want it, but I already have way more figs than I'll ever paint.

>> No.48656246

>>48656235
Plastic Eldrad

>> No.48656262

>>48656235
What is drawing you towards buying it?

>> No.48656285

>>48656220
This.
40k isn't a deep setting with intricate politics and Hugo winning stories. It's a fun, shallow, entertaining setting for a game. And I like it, but I know what it is, and it's not less for that.

>> No.48656353

>>48656285
>all races are bland
>it's a fun and entertaining setting
Do you even logic, brah?

>> No.48656357

>>48656262
More than anything, it's the thought of assembling a bunch of figures. Seriously. I love picking the pieces I want for a fig, then carefully posing them with bluetac until I get exactly what I want. I feel like the deathwatch sprues are going to have tons of bits to choose from.

>> No.48656454

>>48656357
Then I cant really talk you down as the sprues do look like they have a few choices on them.

>> No.48656532

>>48655783
>...it's a [email protected] style box-with-a-"game" that's really just a bundle...

That looks like a 40k mini-rulebook to me.

Also, am I the only one that played Betrayal at Calth and thought it was an excellent game in it's own right?

>> No.48656591

>>48656030
This is the best flavor of space marines though. Sure, theyre very single minded in the sense that they are "fuck aliens" the faction, but its a mix of tactics and other traits that set them aside from other space marines. Also, this is less of a starter set, and more of a "start collecting" set for two armies, with a paperback rulebook included.

>> No.48656608

>>48656532
No, its quite fun, if a little underused. If they expanded the rules and sold expansion boards it'd be amazing.

>> No.48656841

>>48656030
That's an extremely common sentiment.

>> No.48656869

>>48655290

Ho do you figure that? I don't know what the rules for the deathwatch are, but that looks like nearly 500 points of harlequins plus a nearly 200 point character.

Assuming the DW character is on a par with Eldrad, you would need the dread to be about 200 points and the DW troops to average 30 points each before they were worth more than the eldar. I guess you could give them all power weapons, storm shields and jump packs, but that doesn't seem like a good build against harlequins.

>> No.48656910

>>48656030
>I don't like things

Okay.

>> No.48656983

>>48656353
Do you? It is entertaining to look at, has nice video games, and has a feeling of you being over the top that's quite fun. Shit doesn't have to be complex or a master work to be fun.

>> No.48657029

But now now folks aren't we all forgetting the best thing all this Deathwatch promotion has brought us. These sexy ass dice, who feels me?

>> No.48657049

>>48656983
This. I mostly like 40k because it's a silly setting mashed up with lots of old popular sci-fi at every corner. I don't like it because it's thoughtful, because it's not very thoughtful.

>> No.48657053

I'm getting back into 40k, but holy shit, the codex is $50? I left back in fourth, and they were $20 then. Do people buy this shit or use pirated pdf?

inb4 just dont play

>> No.48657058

>>48655783
>In the Death Masque boxed game, you’ll find two forces of Citadel Miniatures with which to re-create the tense battles set upon Port Demesnus. The included booklet contains 3 Echoes of War missions which allow you to play through the story, with full background explaining each battle. Full rules for all the miniatures are included, with an exclusive formaton for both forces. Also included is a 208-page softback copy of Warhammer 40,000: The Rules with an exclusive Watch Captain Artemis cover.

Wronga-mundo buddy. Its just 40k.

>> No.48657066

>>48657029
Those looks pretty ugly, tbqh.

>> No.48657084

>>48656869

If I wasn't a retard, I would have checked the 40k rules for the Overkill guys before posting. Looks like the shooty squad is 175 points (35 points each, on average) and the jump pack guys are 35 points each. If the rest of the deathwatch are similar to them, then the dread only needs to be 150 points to 'break even'.

>> No.48657118

>>48657066
Each to their own I guess. 16mm also, moist as fuck.

>> No.48657151

>>48657084
Also, holy shit, frag cannons are pure rape. A heavy flamer that has rending and shoots twice and turns into a short-ranged autocannon when needed?

>> No.48657158

>>48657058
Hurry.

Someone buy it and tell us the story NOW!

>> No.48657163

>>48656220
>>literally just mordor in space

Wow. Honestly, you must be only pretending to be retarded. No-one is legit this stupid.

>> No.48657180

Could have atleast gave us another version of the death jester model.

>> No.48657185

>>48657029
>symbols on the one instead of the six

>> No.48657443

>>48655770

>New Aspects and PLs

I both want this more than anything and hope to god it doesn't happen. I'd be financially crippled.

>> No.48657548

>>48655247
I was hoping for IG and Tyranids to be honest.

>> No.48657616

It's only "good value" for gw.

>> No.48657624

>>48657053
if you not into tourneyfaggotry, you pirate.

>> No.48657637

>>48657548
GW is not likely to ever make a 40k starter set without Space Marines. They are just too damned popular.

>> No.48657723

>>48657163
>both speak in cockney accents
>both follow the bigger orcs until they get killed then they tend to fall into disarray and either scatter or get butchered
>not very smart but cunning
>like to fight
The only major differences are 40k orks are bigger, green and their reason for creation.

>> No.48657805

>>48657637
But can make one of these board games just fine.

>> No.48657806

>>48655330
>>48655762
>>48655859
This is just sad

>> No.48657827

>>48655247
>What does /tg/ think of the new 40k starter set?
I think it's going to be amusing because it will herald the death of slaanesh and the times of ending for 40k

>> No.48657839

>>48657827

>> No.48657852

>>48657839

>> No.48657864

>>48657852

>> No.48657884

>>48657864

>> No.48657898

>>48657884

>> No.48659993

>>48657029
Those are shit dice.
The ones that came with the wee servitor holders in the lasgun tins? Those were sexy.

>> No.48660035

>>48659993
shame theyre oop.

>> No.48660054

>>48656591
>This is the best flavor of space marines though.

It's the worst, rather than having strong themes running through them they're just every flavour blended together which results in shit flavoured.
Deathwatch inevitably boils down to "these Marines don't get along and don't appreciate each other, but they'll have to learn to get along and appreciate each other, can they do it? Yes, yes they can."
This combined with the fact that Deathwatch effectively serves no purpose - why exactly do you need specialist alien killers when the job of the typical Space Marine primarily boils down to killing aliens? - means that Deathwatch as a concept is probably the weakest of all Marines.

>> No.48660167

>>48660054
Most marine chapters are not dedicated to fighting aliens m8.
You might just as well argue that why you need Grey Knights because all marines fight against deamons too.

>> No.48660192

>>48657151
if the leaked rules are correct, their slug shots become S9 if within half-range

>> No.48660197

>>48657151
>thinks Frag cannons are rape
>He doesnt know about impact (2x S9 ap2 within 12")
>He doesnt know Death watch troops can take drop pods and 0-4 heavy weapons
>He doesnt know frag cannons are 25pts each
They are the most OP ranged weapon in the game.

>> No.48660231

>>48660167
>Most marine chapters are not dedicated to fighting aliens m8.

They fight aliens all the time.

>You might just as well argue that why you need Grey Knights because all marines fight against deamons too.

Daemons are weird esoteric hell-beasts who don't play by the rules of the physical universe.
You can see why the Grey Knights would be needed as they have the weird esoteric tool kit to fight such an enemy.
The Deathwatch meanwhile fights the same flesh and blood shit in the same way as regular Marines.

>> No.48660269

Holyeeeeeeeee shit they all have mk 8 armor with that kickass neck guard

Muh dik

>> No.48660273

>>48660231
Deathwatch are the shock and awe special forces of the space marines.

>> No.48660296

>>48660054
Deathwatch are alien hunters yeah, but you forget the whole Inquisitorial Watchdog aspect of them.

Plus Deathwatch are usually deployed where one of the thousand Chapters aren't

>> No.48660299

>>48660273
Yes, as I said they're superfluous.

>> No.48660310

>>48660231
Yes, but they are not dedicated to that role you dipshit.

Deathwatch is for hunting down Eldar Farseers, disrupting Tyranid Hivefleets, figuring out Dark Eldar raiding patterns and fucking em up the next time they show up, destroying tomb worlds etc. The sort of alien hunting shit most Chapters are ill equipped, or ill prepared to dedicate their time 100% to.

Also
>as if some of the alien races of 40k cannot fuck with the rules of the universe just like Chaos can.

>> No.48660400

>>48660296
>the whole Inquisitorial Watchdog aspect of them.

That isn't an aspect of them though.
They don't keeps tabs on the Inquisition, they don't keep tabs on the chapters, they're just trope repeated ad nauseum.

>>48660310
>Yes, but they are not dedicated to that role you dipshit.

They may as well be. Most of the time they will be fighting aliens, just like the Deathwatch.

>Deathwatch is for hunting down Eldar Farseers, disrupting Tyranid Hivefleets, figuring out Dark Eldar raiding patterns and fucking em up the next time they show up, destroying tomb worlds etc.

Space Marines in general do all that. They wreck the alien super weapon, slay the alien leader, destroy the alien horde, ambush the alien ambushers.

>as if some of the alien races of 40k cannot fuck with the rules of the universe just like Chaos can.

They can, but it's by no means the rule as with daemons, and Deathwatch Marines are not better equipped to deal with it than other Marines given they are just regular Marines in black armour and not space jesuses like Grey Knights.

>> No.48660432

>>48660400
Death Watch marines may not be spesh jesuses but they are picked by their experience of dealing with the esoteric alien races of 40k.

Other Space marine chapters are generalists, who fight against insurgent human worlds, chaos, and aliens equally. Deathwatch are specialists who have the experience and gear to deal with xenos 100% of their time.

>> No.48660438

I don't get this guy's autism against the Deathwatch. Think of them as the Grey Knights of Alien threats.

They keep tabs on big alien threats

They hunt big alien threats

They kill big alien threats better than any other astartes

and they clean up for their Inquisitorial handlers the whole way

>> No.48660501

>>48655247
Is there a compilation of the leaked rules.

>> No.48660524

I don't find DW all that interesting and prefer edgy space elves. It would be great to have sets like this for non-SM factions. I know that there has to marines starter set but diffrent variant realesed alongside would be great.

>> No.48660543

>>48660438
>I don't get this guy's autism against the Deathwatch
this is probably the first time he's heard about them

>>48660400
>and Deathwatch Marines are not better equipped to deal with it than other Marines
They're an army of space marine veterans armed with the best technology the inquisition can give them.

Where the grey knights get by with psychic powers, the deathwatch just use raw experience. Even their new recruits are dudes who are worthy of joining (or had already joined) the first companies in their parent chapters.

>> No.48660545

>>48660432
>Death Watch marines may not be spesh jesuses but they are picked by their experience of dealing with the esoteric alien races of 40k.

Right, they're Space Marines past the rank of scout.

>Other Space marine chapters are generalists, who fight against insurgent human worlds, chaos, and aliens equally. Deathwatch are specialists who have the experience and gear to deal with xenos 100% of their time.

That's not even true, Deathwatch fights more than aliens, they get plenty action against Chaos.

>>48660438
>I don't get this guy's autism against the Deathwatch. Think of them as the Grey Knights of Alien threats.

That doesn't make any sense. Grey Knights make sense in that they essentially fight magic with magic, something most other Space Marines cannot do.
Deathwatch meanwhile fights "normal" shit with "normal" shit. Something that any Space Marine can and is expected to do.

>There's a Hive Tyrant over there boys! Better call in the Deathwatch!
>- No Space Marine ever

>> No.48660564

>>48660400

>They may as well be. Most of the time they will be fighting aliens, just like the Deathwatch.

99% of the times the aliens a Marine chapter is fighting are orks.

Take DoW 2 as an example. The BR are fighting orks as a routine, but then tyranids attack and is the Deathwatch veteran that identifies them and knows the most about how to fight them.

>> No.48660585

>>48660545
You are just flat out wrong, and clearly unaware of Deathwatch lore.
Just shut the fuck up.

>> No.48660628

Is the codex epub/pdf available for download if I were the buy it now ?

>> No.48660636

>>48657898
It's not the end of times anon, GW only ended fantasy for bad sales, which definitely isn't the case with 40k. This is just GW trying to draw in Eldar players by tricking them to get marine related material, in which the Eldar will get the shit kicked out of them by Deathwatch.

>> No.48660659

>>48660545
>That's not even true, Deathwatch fights more than aliens, they get plenty action against Chaos.

As much as the GK fight xenos. It could happen, usually when the threats overlap, but it's not the norm.

>> No.48660723

>>48660543
>this is probably the first time he's heard about them

Don't be so presumptuous. Just because I recognise a shit concept doesn't mean I'm new to it.

>They're an army of space marine veterans armed with the best technology the inquisition can give them.

As I said, superfluous. Marines are already supposed to be the ancient veterans armed with the most powerful arms and armour the Imperium can provide.

>B-but they're even mooooooore elite!

Superfluous. As if the first company veterans and terminators are not enough. What's next?
The Super Deathwatch? And then the Super Duper Deathwatch? How many layers of super soldier who kills aliens is necessary here?

>>48660564
>99% of the times the aliens a Marine chapter is fighting are orks.

Orks are common, but other aliens are hardly rare. An alien menace who ravaged the Eastern Fringe into Ultramar should hardly be little known. Even the likes of Necrons have tacticae written about then and distributed to Chapter Masters.

>>48660585
>You are just flat out wrong, and clearly unaware of Deathwatch lore.
>Just shut the fuck up.

Again, just because I know it;s shit doesn't mean I don't know it.

>>48660659
Right and Space Marines usually fight xenos to.

>> No.48660859

>>48660054
Deathwatch also has a tacticool, operator operating operationally feel to them. Small squads, focus on quick, surgical attacks, and usually don's field together en masse unless some uppity eldar wants to awaken Ynnead, or tau want to full-scale invade a forge world, etc.

>> No.48660867

>>48660723
You over-estimate the amount of knowledge the average marine has about the various alien factions of 40k.
Knowledge of xenos is not something even the marines are given liberal access to m8.
Deathwatch are valued, because they are all marines who have hands on experience of killing xenos that aren't just orks. They can recognize a Dark Eldar raid having occurred, the first signs of Tyranid or genestlear infestation, the typical traits of Hrud presence, etc, which an average Marine would be blind to.

>> No.48660880

>>48660723
>nuh uh
what a compelling argument

>Marines are already supposed to be the ancient veterans
except chapters run the full gamut, from novice to veteran

>armed with the most powerful arms and armour the Imperium can provide.
aside from the fact that chapters are independent entities, responsible for manufacturing and maintaining their own arms and armor

Deathwatch are the militant arm of the ordo xenos. Inquisitors need marines that actually take their orders as more than just suggestions. They also need proven veterans because they're not going on fucking picnics.

>> No.48660888

Are these guys all snap-fit like the DV guys? Nice to see a cheap source of clowns.

>> No.48660960

>Putting the hardest to paint Space Elf faction in a starter box, and giving them the most detailed Eldrad model so far as well

Yeah I can see this going real fucking well.

The primary reason I haven't tried getting into Harlequins so far (aside from the whole "they fucking suck" thing) is that they're too hard to paint well enough to do justice to the fluff. Now there are going to be 1000 shittily-painted clown car armies running around at every FLGS. Oh well...

>> No.48661025

>>48660867
>You over-estimate the amount of knowledge the average marine has about the various alien factions of 40k.

You underestimate it, Marines talk all the time about their campaign on whogivesafuck against any enemy under the sun.
Just read through any Space marine codex even and see the variety of enemies they clash with.

>>48660880
>what a compelling argument

That wasn't an argument, not sure how you can expect me to argue with your pre conceived notion of my experience with the fluff.

>except chapters run the full gamut, from novice to veteran

What's your point? The majority are still Veterans, and the ones who are actually called Veterans are supremely skilled. Also Deathwatch does this too, not like there's never been novice Marines there.

>aside from the fact that chapters are independent entities, responsible for manufacturing and maintaining their own arms and armor

This isn't true in most cases, even the Grey Knights use a Forgeworld for most of their stuff.

>Deathwatch are the militant arm of the ordo xenos. Inquisitors need marines that actually take their orders as more than just suggestions.

Yet the Marines there are mere charity for the Inquisition. Totally superfluous. In a universe with no Deathwatch instead the Inquisition just calls in the nearest Marine chapter and asks for a squad.

>> No.48661041

>>48660723
>Again, just because I know it;s shit doesn't mean I don't know it.

What means you don't know anything is the fact that basically everything you say show that your knowledge of the setting is basically at the level of "I read a summary on wikipedia".

Not all Space Marine chapters are the Ultramarine. And even for the them creating the Tyrannic war veterans was a big deal. While an average chapter can know that exist a xenos species that eat worlds named tyranids having actual veterans of fights against them that can say "these are hormagaunts, that means tyranids" instead of "hey, this planets has a strange and aggressive fauna" is actually a rare thing.

When the Ultramarines, the best of the best, liberated Damnos it was still a Deathwatch kill team that infiltrated the Tomb complex to assassinate the Overlord. Because even in a first foundation chapter like the Ultra the number of veterans with experience in search and destroy missions inside tomb worlds was basically zero.

You are talking as the SM knows they are in a tabletop so of course half of the menaces are going to be Eldar, Necrons or Tyranids because they are the major factions, so better google some info on them! The percentage of chapters that fought Tyranids or Necrons is very low.

>Even the likes of Necrons have tacticae written about then and distributed to Chapter Masters.

I want a source about this.

>> No.48661042

>>48660054
Also, the fuck you mean the worst? Look, i dont know what youre smoking, but it must be some strong shit. Let me tell you why you're wrong:

>ultrasmurfs:
Literally just good at being by the book, and that causes them to win for no reason. Also too full of themselves.

>Imperial Fists
Full on wall fetishists, with a tendency to get smacked the fuck down. Also most autistic primarch besides Dark Angels

>Dark angels:
Knights of the round potato, to sum them up.

>Black templars
Best fist champion made a bunch of zealous crusaders, okay but not great.

>blood angels
Only reason their geneseed is even used is because of the fact that sanguinius saved the emperor. If they suffered from their mutations before emps died they would be the third missing legion.

>Salamanders
The niggest with a flame fetish.

>Space Wolves
Once proud vikings turned furries.

>Raven guard
From the operator legion to assault marines the chapter, a significant downgrade.

>white scars
Interesting but bland. Mongolian biker gang the chapter.

>iron hands
We could have one tank themed chapter, but no, got to be all about augmentation. Seriously wasted potential.

>Grey knights
The only sin Matt Ward commited was making these guys TOO snowflakey.

Deathwatch, when done right, takes all of these chapters' best alien killers, sits them together, and tells them, "kill every fucking xenos wherever we send you," and most of the time they succede spectacularly.

>> No.48661045

>>48660888
>Are these guys all snap-fit like the DV guys?

No.

>> No.48661118

>>48661025
>Marines talk all the time about their campaign on whogivesafuck against any enemy under the sun.

This is so retarded I can't even know what to say. Do you have actually ever read something about marines?

>> No.48661218

>>48661041
>What means you don't know anything is the fact that basically everything you say show that your knowledge of the setting is basically at the level of "I read a summary on wikipedia".

Stop being so presumptuous. Just because you love the Deathwatch doesn't mean they're not a shitty contrivance.

>Not all Space Marine chapters are the Ultramarine. And even for the them creating the Tyrannic war veterans was a big deal.

Creating the Tyranid war veterans was a big deal because it was a change in the organisational structure laid down by the codex, not because WOAH ALIENS.

>While an average chapter can know that exist a xenos species that eat worlds named tyranids having actual veterans of fights against them that can say "these are hormagaunts, that means tyranids" instead of "hey, this planets has a strange and aggressive fauna" is actually a rare thing.

I doubt that, Tyranids are one of the more pervasive species. And Space marines communicate and share with each other and the Imperium. The only reason Space Marines wouldn't know about Tyranids would be if they were out of communications for a long time.

>When the Ultramarines, the best of the best, liberated Damnos it was still a Deathwatch kill team that infiltrated the Tomb complex to assassinate the Overlord.

Did it need to be Deathwatch though? No.
Did they do anything impossible for a Space Marine? No.
The more impressive stuff was actually being done by the Ultramarines, the Deathwatch just followed the Overlord into his tomb.

>You are talking as the SM knows they are in a tabletop

No, just that Space Marines will know about some of mankind's biggest enemies, and could easily, easily be briefed if they somehow were not.

>I want a source about this.

You've read about Damnos, correct? Well, even I, guy who only reads wikipedia summaries knows more about that book than you do.

>>48661118
>Do you have actually ever read something about marines?

Have you? Marines revel in their glory

>> No.48661229

>>48661025
I am not under-estimating it one bit.
First off, Marines boasting about fighting against aliens does not mean that they have actual concrete understanding of the way those aliens operate, and how to best to beat them (which is the whole modus operandi of Deathwatch).
Secondly, the orks are the only xenos species that wast majority of marines have ever fought against in any significant number of engagements, due to both the fact of how numerous the Orks and how few of there are Marines comparatively.
Just because posterboy marines like Ultrasmurfs get to fight against every alien under the sun, doesn't mean that applies to every chapter.

Eldar for example, are considered a rare opponent even by Marines, mostly because the Eldar rarely engage in fights directly, and even less likely in ones where they face a significant chance of losing. They also tend to strike fast and fade away, giving Marines very little chance to strike at the eldar, unless they happen to be on the very world the Eldar are attacking. Most fights between Eldar and Marines happen during large extended wars, which the Eldar engage in very rarely.
Simply put, in most situations where the Eldar strike at the imperium, they do it so fast, and unexpectedly that Marine forces are simply not able to respond to such attacks in time, thus, the marines with actual experience at fighting Eldar, are comparatively rare.

>> No.48661283

>all these posts knowing fuck all about marine fluff

>> No.48661313

>>48661229
>First off, Marines boasting about fighting against aliens does not mean that they have actual concrete understanding of the way those aliens operate

Yeah, because Space Marines just half ass it right? They wouldn't pass on their findings or hard won experience or anything.

>Secondly, the orks are the only xenos species that wast majority of marines have ever fought against in any significant number of engagements, due to both the fact of how numerous the Orks and how few of there are Marines comparatively.

Got any source for this? Even aliens like the Eldar, barely clinging to life, are well know. Tyranids are a galactic scourge pushing in from most sides, and were involved with the famous Ultramarines.
Even Tau have been heard about in the Halls of Terra, and they're a comparatively minor race on the edge of the galaxy.

>Simply put, in most situations where the Eldar strike at the imperium, they do it so fast, and unexpectedly that Marine forces are simply not able to respond to such attacks in time

Marines are the fast responce teams of the Imperium, if anyone responds in time it's them.
And that's assuming the Eldar don't pick a fight with the Marines directly, which is not strange.

>> No.48661378

>>48661218

>Stop being so presumptuous

Stop being wrong.

>Creating the Tyranid war veterans was a big deal because it was a change in the organisational structure laid down by the codex, not because WOAH ALIENS.

And of course the Ultramarines are going to change their structure just because a run of the mill alien. It's not like actually having veterans of the fight against those aliens were such a big deals the ultramairines changed their own codex. Good job missing the point.

>I doubt that, Tyranids are one of the more pervasive species. And Space marines communicate and share with each other and the Imperium. The only reason Space Marines wouldn't know about Tyranids would be if they were out of communications for a long time.

Citation needed.

>Did it need to be Deathwatch though?
Yes you idiot. Otherwise the Ultra would have done it.

>Did they do anything impossible for a Space Marine?
Not impossible, just extremely hard. Helbretch killed a Daemon Prince with a combat knife when he was an intiate. It doesn't mean that the GK are useless because you can just send initiates with combat knives to fight Daemon princes.

>The more impressive stuff was actually being done by the Ultramarines, the Deathwatch just followed the Overlord into his tomb.

They didn't follow the Overlord into his tomb. They infiltrated it while the ultramarine fought and destroyed the Reanimation mechanism. The actually important part.

>No, just that Space Marines will know about some of mankind's biggest enemies, and could easily, easily be briefed if they somehow were not.

Yeah, of course being briefed about an alien race is just the same as having fought them for decades. How silly for me to think otherwise!

>You've read about Damnos, correct? Well, even I, guy who only reads wikipedia summaries knows more about that book than you do.

I still don't see any sources about the fact that tacticae about necrons are distribuited to chapter masters.

>> No.48661395

>>48661313
>Yeah, because Space Marines just half ass it right? They wouldn't pass on their findings or hard won experience or anything.
They won't half ass it, but they are ideologically predisposed to dismiss and despise xenos to the degree that they may as well be blind to objectively everything there is to see about

>Even aliens like the Eldar, barely clinging to life, are well know.
They are well known because they have been enemies of mankind for tens of thousands of years, and even still, Imperials barely know anything about them and their ways beyond their existence, outside of very small select circles of Inquisitors.

>Tyranids are a galactic scourge pushing in from most sides, and were involved with the famous Ultramarines.
They are a very recent threat, and the Imperium has only woken to the magnitude of their threat very recently. And again, Marines knowing of their existence does not translate to them being able know how to best fight them, how to recognize their various combat forms, or the first signs of an infestation.

>Marines are the fast responce teams of the Imperium, if anyone responds in time it's them.
You do not understand how fast the Eldar are able to move on galactic scale. Even if Marines are the fast response team, it still takes them weeks, even months to travel between worlds. Eldar can do the same in the matter of hours and days via webway. They can fucking walk to another world via webway gates. The only way Eldar and Marines are fighting is if the Eldar want that fight to happen or have no choice but to fight due to their goals. Forcing the Eldar to fight in a situation where they have no reason to, is basically impossible, unless you locate their craftworld.

>> No.48661596

>>48661378
>Stop being wrong.

You're the only one who's wrong, wrong about my experience with the fluff. What I'm saying is not right or wrong, it's an opinion in reply to an opinion.

>And of course the Ultramarines are going to change their structure just because a run of the mill alien.

Nope, it is a big deal. But only because they're going against something they essentially consider holy writ.

>It's not like actually having veterans of the fight against those aliens were such a big deals the ultramairines changed their own codex.

The Tyranids were considered an enemy perhaps worth adapting the codex to face, they did not decide to change the codex because they had veterans used to fighting aliens.

>Citation needed.

Tyranid path maps, they've invaded from multiple vectors and deep into the galaxy.

>Yes you idiot. Otherwise the Ultra would have done it.

i believe you're missing the point what I'm saying is would the narrative have been any different if instead of Deathwatch, it was a squad of Ultramarines or hell, any other Chapter? Would they be incapable of physically entering a tomb any more than Deathwatch Marines? No. Deathwatch Marines have no magic powers to separate them ala Grey Knights.

>They didn't follow the Overlord into his tomb. They infiltrated it while the ultramarine fought and destroyed the Reanimation mechanism.

Right they waited at his respawn point and blew him up when arrived after he got squashed by the C'tan.

>Yeah, of course being briefed about an alien race is just the same as having fought them for decades. How silly for me to think otherwise!

Marines have fought aliens for decades, even centuries. The only point a veteran Marine would be missing against a Deathwatch agent would by the Inquisition's intel.

>I still don't see any sources about the fact that tacticae about necrons are distribuited to chapter masters.

Really? Check page 24, subheadin:, Damnos Reclaimed, paragraph two.

>> No.48661611

>>48661313
Keep in mind the imperium by and large still doesn't know the difference between dark eldar and craftworld eldar. Their are Deathwatch veterans that would know either one of those very intimately. A marine like that under the direct command of an inqusitor is very potent.

>> No.48661685

>>48661395
>They won't half ass it, but they are ideologically predisposed to dismiss and despise xenos

Despise yes, dismiss no. They're not the Imperial Guard who're taught that Orks are weak and Eldar are primitive. They're warriors who're expected to actually be able to combat these species efficiently.

>even still, Imperials barely know anything about them and their ways beyond their existence

They know about their combat ability. That's what Space Marines need.

>They are a very recent threat

Not that recent. Certainly not recent enough that information can't have been spread across most of the Imperium.

>And again, Marines knowing of their existence does not translate to them being able know how to best fight them,

But Marines pass on their experience. So when they interact with Marines, Guardsmen, Navymen, Inquisitors who do know they'll learn.

>You do not understand how fast the Eldar are able to move on galactic scale.

Please stop assuming things about me. The webway is very fast, but that doesn't mean Marines can't be in range or even forewarned themselves.

>> No.48661687

>>48661596
I suppose you are also against the existence of the first company, or the veterans squads. After all they don't have magic powers, so why would they exist? Just send a tactical squad instead.

>> No.48661746

>>48661687
>I suppose you are also against the existence of the first company, or the veterans squads

No, they're a natural progression.
Deathwatch are not, they're a shitty gimmick.
The unlikely band of brothers story told again and again and again.
Anything the Deathwatch would be easily replaced by an Ordo Xenos loyal Chapter to take their place or by Inquisitors requisitioning a squad from Marine chapters as needs demand.

>> No.48661781

>>48661746
No it wouldn't. Deathwatch is special because the ENTIRE Chapter is equivalent to the first company. Everybody in the Chapter is essentially either a Sternguard or Vanguard Marine that would outshoot or outchop most of his brothers. They're the elite of the elite of the elite.

>> No.48661842

>>48661685
>Despise yes, dismiss no. They're not the Imperial Guard who're taught that Orks are weak and Eldar are primitive. They're warriors who're expected to actually be able to combat these species efficiently.

The Marines regularly dismiss the strengths and capabilities of xenos due to their ideology m8.

>They know about their combat ability. That's what Space Marines need.
They overall, know extremely little of eldar combat capabilities.

>
Not that recent. Certainly not recent enough that information can't have been spread across most of the Imperium.

It is a very recent threat by Imperial standards. The first encounter happened only a few centuries ago. And again, just because the knowledge of such a race being there can spread, does not mean that the information about the extend of the capabilities of Tyranids, their true threat, and how to beat them, has spread around. Knowing imperium it fucking hasn't spread around at all. The Admech codex has an example of them basically filing away and forgetting an extremely efficient way of beating nids.


>But Marines pass on their experience. So when they interact with Marines, Guardsmen, Navymen, Inquisitors who do know they'll learn.
Yes and?
That doesn't make the amount of veterans with hands on experience at fighting against various xenos threats any larger.

>The webway is very fast, but that doesn't mean Marines can't be in range or even forewarned themselves.
I keep assuming things, because you keep showcasing clear lack of understanding of the setting.
The webway allows Eldar to move between multiple starsystems in the span of hours, so the only way Marines would able to respond to such threat is if they are in the very location at the time, which is rather unlikely, both because there are so few marines in the galaxy, and because the eldar can see the fucking future, and know when to attack.

>> No.48661845

>>48661781
>No it wouldn't. Deathwatch is special because the ENTIRE Chapter is equivalent to the first company.

They don't even operate as a chapter. They function primarily in kill teams. SO yeah, they could be replaced by Veteran Squads borrowed from Marine chapters on a per need basis. Or simply by a dedicated chapter

>They're the elite of the elite of the elite.

Yes, yes, I know, but as I said it's superfluous.
Where's the elite of the elite of the elite of the elite? And after them the elite of the elite of the elite of the elite of the elite?

It's unnecessary, you do not need that many layers of alien killing super soldiers. It's a shitty gimmick.

>> No.48661864

>>48661845
Somebody should tell that to reality, because we too have elites of elites of elites focused on killing our enemies.

>tfw reality is a gimmick too

>> No.48661916

>>48661845
Just because you don't like it doesn't make it a shitty gimmick.
Deathwatch being alien hunter veterans who serve the inquisiton is no more of a gimmick than Space Wolves having wolf theme, or Grey Knights being deamon hunters.

Also, the reason why a single chapter dedicated to the Inquisition wouldn't work as well is because the scope of perspectives and experiences would be far, far more limited. By drawing the veterans from multitude of chapters across the Imperium, Deathwatch gets far greater quantity of experiences, ways of murdering the aliens, and perspectives, than they could ever hope to get, if they were just a standard chapter serving the ordo xenos.

>> No.48661990

>>48661916
Most likely, Xenos are not the big problem for the Imperium, chaos cults, plain rebellions clerical errors are perhaps bigger things. Space Marines mainly encounter Xenos when they are on an individual campaign, like the Badab War.

Xenos are also most likely specialized against more elusive races, like the elfdar.

>> No.48662014

>>48661842
>The Marines regularly dismiss the strengths and capabilities of xenos due to their ideology m8.

No they won't. They'll call them weak or foolish maybe but that doesn't mean the average marine will assume he can dismantle a wraithlord in one on one combat. They're not stupid.

>They overall, know extremely little of eldar combat capabilities.

That's not true, they're quite adept at fighting Eldar. Marines have destroyed Craftworlds and invaded Commoragh, they've seen plenty of the Eldar's sickest toys.

>It is a very recent threat by Imperial standards. The first encounter happened only a few centuries ago.

Centuries is plenty time for information to disseminate. The Tau are already know at least all the way to Terra. You think the Tyranids, who are far more common place in the galaxy at large, will have many Marines scratching their heads?

>Yes and?

So they will know about fighting xenos.

>The webway allows Eldar to move between multiple starsystems in the span of hours, so the only way Marines would able to respond to such threat is if they are in the very location at the time

Or if the Eldar advance stalls. Not everything goes their way all the time.

>>48661864
>Somebody should tell that to reality, because we too have elites of elites of elites focused on killing our enemies.

No we don't. We have different types of forces for different operating areas but you won't find the triple Mega SAS.

>>48661916
>Just because you don't like it doesn't make it a shitty gimmick.

It does in my view.

>Deathwatch being alien hunter veterans who serve the inquisiton is no more of a gimmick than

No, the gimmick I don't like is the different Marines having to come together and overcome their differences to find themselves and make out.

Them being speshul alium hunters I consider superfluous. Since that's really the job of a space marine already.

>> No.48662078

>>48662014
>No we don't. We have different types of forces for different operating areas but you won't find the triple Mega SAS.
You'll find that in the American military. A lot.

>> No.48662081

>>48655247

Looks nice but seems barebones for the price tag.

>> No.48662091

>They'll call them weak or foolish maybe but that doesn't mean the average marine will assume he can dismantle a wraithlord in one on one combat.
Calling them weak and foolish is precisely what I was talking about, when those things are far from true. A flat out disregard of the capabilities of their enemies, due to dogma.
A marine may not think he will be able to beat a wraithlord in melee, but marines often completely dismiss the psychic capabilities of the Eldar for example, or even just Ork cunning or the technology of the Tau.

>Marines have destroyed Craftworlds and invaded Commoragh, they've seen plenty of the Eldar's sickest toys.

After the Horus heresy, there is like a single instance of marines destroying a craftworld, and that chapter was basically completely annihilated in retaliation by the Eldar. Whatever knowledge those fucks gained, was killed with them.
Also, the Commoragh invasion was engineered completely by Vect. The marines were his unwilling puppets in that scheme. The only reason why they got in, and got out, was because Vect allowed it.

>Centuries is plenty time for information to disseminate.
Not in the Imperium. Do you know anything about the lore of the Imperium? Those fucks lose records of planets and forget their existence regularly due to clerical errors. Free flow of information is not something that happens in the imperium.

>It does in my view.
And your view is fucking retarded, as made evident by your posts in this thread.

>> No.48662102

>>48662091
Meant to quote this>>48662014

>> No.48662184

>>48655247

It's not a starter kit, you'd think people would have learned this by now considering they did something similar with both SW vs Orks and BA vs Tyranids. The only difference is that this features an entirely new army in the DW and instead of a generic HQ for the Harlequins you get Eldrad. The fact that Harlequins are one of the factions further points to this not being a starter set.

>>48655290

You're not supposed to just smash the armies together, the box comes with three missions that if they're anything like what I mentioned above will limit what models you can take.

>>48655770

Eldrad will likely get released separately in a couple months, happened with the Wolf Lord, Warboss, BA Terminator Captain, and Broodlord.

In a way I'm kind of disappointed that I purchased the older Eldrad model last week since they look so similar.

>>48656030

They look cool
They're like knights with their heraldry and nothing stop you from adding additional effects
They're one of the armies with the most lore detail
There is enough information available that you can usually paint your army to being close to the lore
You can take any culture from human history, slap it on, and have it work.

>> No.48662215

>>48662091
>Calling them weak and foolish is precisely what I was talking about, when those things are far from true. A flat out disregard of the capabilities of their enemies, due to dogma.

That's not them disregarding their enemies capabilities. It's insulting them. If the call aliens weak or foolish that odesn't mean they think they're going to be able to beat an Ork Warboss at arm wrestling. It means they're going to be happy when it dies.

>After the Horus heresy, there is like a single instance of marines destroying a craftworld

That we know of, and the Sons of Orar had the chance.

>The only reason why they got in, and got out, was because Vect allowed it.

And yet the still, only being a tiny amount of Space Marines held the attention of High Commoragh and wreaked havoc. My point is they've been at the heart of the Eldar's bastions, they've seen pretty much the worst that the Eldar can throw at them. They are not near totally ignorant of Eldar capabilities.

>Not in the Imperium.

Yes the Imperium. Again, news of the Tau travelled through to Terra. News of the Ultras being defeated at Damnos spread through the segmentum. Orders from the Imperium to muster against the 13th Black Crusade reached all over the Imperium. All swiftly.
Some things are lost in communication for many years, and information travels at varying speeds depending on the warp, but in general hundreds of years is more than enough time to tell people about something massive like the Tyranids.

>And your view is fucking retarded

The only thing retarded is people thinking Deathwatch is a good idea.

>> No.48662302

>>48656030

Because you are low test

>> No.48662420

>>48662302
>Because you are low test

You sure memed him, friendo.

>> No.48662504

>>48656030
>generic and bland
you only think that because they are so prolific and the table top doesn't really do justice to space marines lore, the models being too small and the rules making them far less spooky than they ought to be.

Space marines have room for an obscene level of variation, and "genetically modified and slightly unstable reculsive orders of super men space knights" isn't exactly a common trope in scifi.

>> No.48663911

>>48656030
People like superhero comics too.

>> No.48664021

>>48657637
I guess.

I just think it'd fit the Alien theme better, y'know?

And I need an excuse to buy Tyranids and I'm pissed that they didn't release a Valkryie versus the Tyranid Flyer box.

>> No.48664672

itt: idiots who fell for the bait

>> No.48665788

I was getting ready to make an Imperial Fists successor chapter but now I am thinking I may go Deathwatch all because I have an affinity for shotguns, and they have a bolter shotgun.

>> No.48665821

>>48656285

I think 40k has some neat concepts and even stuff that could provoke discussion. Granted there is a pretty good chance that those things are not unique to the setting and were picked up from somewhere else.

>>48656608

They did put out some new missions via WD. One even involved the use of daemons.

>>48657029

I do like that they used multiple different Chapter symbols instead of just the symbol for the DW.

>>48659993

They are nice. I think my only complaint about is that since they're so big they don't really suit certain units or even armies well. I couldn't see using them when shooting or attacking with a unit of Boyz for example.

>> No.48665976

>>48657723
>orks aren't literally pure evil
>orks aren't enslaved by a semi-divine overlord with pseudo immortality
>orks don't have a singular goal in which they are trying to achieve
>orks have magic
>orks don't have a crazy evil gothic architecture with black iron and spikes everywhere
>orks aren't corrupted elves or have any semblance of corruption
>orks are just goofy green orks in space with ramshackle technology who like fighting
Try harder kid

>> No.48666049

is this a good way to start harlequins?

>> No.48666187

>>48666049

It's what I'm picking the set up for so I hope so. I can't see how it could be a bad way to get into them. The individual sets come to around £113 ( without Eldrad) and this is £95, buying from a store that offers a discount and hopefully selling of the Death Watch should make it a even better deal.

>> No.48666342

What happened to that Ultramarines vs. Orks box set they were coming out with?

>> No.48667153

>>48666187
We should organize a trade thread next weekend. I've got it preordered but I don't want the harlies.

>> No.48667286

>>48666187
Fellow britfag here, I'm getting masque for the deathwatch. Interested in trading?

>> No.48667347

>>48662184
>not a starter set
It contains a full rulebook so it is a starter set.

>> No.48667404

>>48661042
Stop speaking in 1d4chan memes you autistic faggot.

>> No.48667547

>>48666342

That was only for certain stores. Plus it was just repackaged AoBR.

>>48667347

Except it's not because starter sets remain on sale until a new edition comes out. This will likely follow the pattern of the previous box sets I mentioned which after a while stopped being sold. They all came with rulebooks too.

The mini rulebook is just gimmick for existing players who didn't pick up the 6E or 7E versions of Dark Vengeance. They make it further enticing by giving you an exclusive cover. Deathstorm had a BA on the cover of the rules book instead of a DA and this rules book has Artemis on it.

>> No.48667695

>>48667547
>Except it's not because starter sets remain on sale until a new edition comes out.
He says, pulling a definition out of his ass.

Two small armies + rulebook = starter set

>> No.48667799

>>48655290
Like that hasn't been the case since AoBR

>> No.48667821

>>48656030
Because they're generic and bland so you can tailor them to be your own thing
>knight Templar IN SPESS
>local gay club IN SPESS
>vampires IN SPESS
>Vikings IN SPESS
>Romans IN SPESS
>Mongols IN SPESS

>> No.48668003

>>48667821
>warriors in armour
>warriors in chaps
>warriors with fangs
>warriors in boats
>warriors in formation
>warriors on horses

>> No.48668159

>>48667695

Yeah, because AoBR was replaced before 6E and DV before 7E.

Seriously it's just a campaign box, the fact that there have been two of them before and they're no longer sold should clue you in.

Not to mention that Harlequins are a pretty piss poor starter army and you won't be able to take Eldrad with them outside of the formation that comes with the box.

>> No.48668407

>>48667286

Sounds like a good idea. I'll wait till I've got the set before agreeing to anything though, just in case I change my mind on the Deathwatch after getting the sprues in my hands. I wouldn't want to mess anyone around.

>> No.48668416

>All of this marine wank

>> No.48668445

>>48655247
I think your a CHILL!

Go sell your shit elswere

>> No.48668476

>>48668445
Sure, OP is a cool dude.

>> No.48668497

>>48668476
Yep, definitely chill.

>> No.48668620

>>48655247
>What does /tg/ think of the new 40k starter set?
Harlequins is a poor fucking choice for people just starting out painting

>> No.48669064

>>48661685
>They know about their combat ability.

Not really. A big deal is made about just how little Imperials actually understand Eldar modus operandi. They're defined by their mystery and exoticism as a seemingly inexplicably force in the universe that strikes suddenly at random. Marines sure as shit can't predict and intercept Eldar without spades of plot armour.

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