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47803869 No.47803869 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Why are Amazons almost always portrayed as tribal and low-tech, or even barbaric? Any reasons Amazons couldn't advance like humans or any fantasy race? What are some more interesting and diverse examples of Amazons in games or fiction?

>> No.47803896

>>>/pol/
Get this bait out of here.

>> No.47803923

Because Scythians were a tribal and low-tech herding society, considered barbaric by the people that wrote about them. Stories involving them tend to emphasize this, especially in period. See the story of a Scythian queen wrecking Persia when it gets too high and mighty.

>> No.47803960

>>47803869
>because women can't into technology and invention

>> No.47804044

>>47803896

Not bait. Just interested in Amazons and wondering what different types might be out there that I haven't seen yet. And have excuse to post my Hordes of the Things Steampunk Amazons army

>>47803923

Amazon Queen cutting head off Persian King is pretty badass. But I don't think Amazons should have to be excluded from setting where humans or other races have industry or magitech just because the real Amazons were from ancient times.

>> No.47804213

>>47804044
Can you give any examples of settings where this is the case? Wasn't aware this was a thing.

>> No.47804262

>>47804213

In Lord of the Rings orcs have gunpowder and in Guild Wars 2 the Charr are industrializing and the Asura have magictech. And humans have everything from Conan to scifi stuff. But Amazons are never anything but tribal/barbarian types.

>> No.47804292

The entire appeal of amazon is the feral wild women who do manly shit.

Civil amazons are basically book club members and no one wants book club members.

>> No.47804330

because otherwise how the fuck would humans compete if you have
>humans, but much, much stronger
also
angel pls come back to your home thread, and pls make a new cyoa. I haven't roleplayed a build since Pretty Pink Princess CYOA. I needs it.

>> No.47804377

>>47804262

>LotR orcs have gunpowder

Only in the movie.

>Amazons

I don't see how they could become a technological society except by appropriating it from other civilizations. Cliche Amazons are a race or society entirely composed of female warriors, hate men, and their only interactions with them are to fight them, or rape them so they can reproduce (aside from stealing female babies and raising them as their own).

Sometimes there's magic involved.

Ultimately, you need to make a couple of decisions:

- How do Amazons produce food? Are they farmer/citizen/warriors in their gynotopia, or do they have slaves?

- How do Amazons acquire goods? Are some of them artisans, craftswomen, blacksmiths, carpenters, sculptors, painters, etc.? Or do they get them entirely through raiding and conquest?

- What motivates Amazons to improve technologically? Do they have excellent medical knowledge because having babies is difficult and dangerous, or do they have only a basic understanding of it because they never birth children, and instead steal them?

- Do the Amazons have magic which makes certain technological developments pointless?

>> No.47804392
File: 593 KB, 480x480, snu snu.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
47804392

>>47803869

Because Amazons are literally fap-bait material from the classical age; advanced cultures would imply increased clothing or apparel, which ain't as appealing as semi-nude women wearing tigerskins and loincloths.

>> No.47804393

>>47803869
>Why are Amazons almost always portrayed as tribal and low-tech, or even barbaric?
Because it gets my dick hard

>> No.47804398

>>47803869
Shouldn't you be busy making CYOA builds?

>> No.47804400
File: 144 KB, 565x900, Dahomey_amazon1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
47804400

>>47803869
Pic related were a real life group of female warriors. They used guns whenever they could get their hands on them. I see no reason you couldn't have a culture similar to the Dahomey with a corps of female troops advance into a Steampunk period, particularly in a world with magic.

>> No.47804401

>>47803869
Amazons are subspiecies of barbarians and the same reason why there are no high-tech barbarians, there are non of amazons

>> No.47804489

>>47803869
Because an STR bonus needs to be balanced against something, like an INT penalty.

>> No.47804529

>>47804292

Why couldn't Amazons in space work? Especially in a pulpy setting?

>>47804330

Amazons don't have to be stronger than humans. And even if they are, that won't matter as much in a setting with high magic or lasers.

I still post there, but without trip cuz people bully.

>>47804377

If we start with traditionala Amazons, then something could happen where a more advanced group gets tired of the annoying Amazon raids and attacks them. Then maybe the Amazons become refugees and flee to start a Queendom somewhere else and they're forced to invent new technology or research more magic so they don't get wiped out by neighbors who don't like them and their habit of kidnapping female babies.

>>47804400

Yeah, that's the kind of thing I'm thinking of. Very cool that they did this irl and not just in fantasy.

>>47804401

Aren't chaos in 40k high tech barbarians?

>> No.47804556

>>47804529
>And even if they are, that won't matter as much in a setting with high magic or lasers.
It does, because you have humans with high magic or lasers, and humans but better with high magic or lasers. It's not balanced. The only way it COULD be is if Amazons are the only humans.

>> No.47804586

>>47804529
>40k high tech barbarians
>40k
>world where bio-monsters are high-tech
40k is super high tech world, anything that can't build spaceships is dead on arrival, of course they can't have chaos running around in fur pants and stone axes. And no, chaos in 40k is on lower end of tech level in their respective universe.

>> No.47804593

>>47803869
Because Amazons are part of Greek mythology, rather than the "more advanced" medieval settings that dominate fantasy.

>> No.47804603

>>47804556
Or you make all the human factions be humans but better!

>> No.47804619

>>47803869
This question is pretty dump Amazons are savage, giant and muscular women.
It's like having civilised Orcs.

>> No.47804626

>>47803869
Because Amazon's are usually included in order to have sexy /fit/ girls who run around in skimpy outfits. They're also inspired from older myth, which tends to leave them in the Bronze age at best.

Its the same reason Minotaurs tend to be tribal savages, or a bronze age kingdom at best. Nothing really inherent about capabilities, just the theme they have.

Technologically advanced Amazons could easily be a thing in a setting

>> No.47804643

>>47804529
>Amazons don't have to be stronger than humans
then how are they different from brown humans?

Angel pls make new CYOA.
Pls roleplay with me. Don't make me grovel and beg.

>> No.47804840

>>47804556

A setting where Amazons are the only humans could be cool.

>>47804586

Ok. I don't know a whole lot about 40k. Just stuff I see here.

>>47804619

I was in a game once where one of the players RPed a gentleman orc. It was pretty fun. Amazons could be sophisticated to.

>>47804626

In a more technological setting, what would you do to make Amazons stand out from humans, since being big and strong wouldn't be quite as important?

>>47804643

They could have a unique culture. Like humans could have a Empire with a powerful Emperor and be focused on conquest and subjecting other races, while Amazons could have come from tribes that each settled and made their own city and finally made alliance of independent cities and are focused more on freedom. Maybe Amazons worship mother Goddess who grants them holy magic of protection and healing, while humans worship God of war who teaches certain chosen humans destructive magic. Then maybe there's a outside threat that forces humans and Amazons to not always fight each other.

I might make another cyoa sometime, but not real soon. We can RP sometime if one gets started in cyoa thread or something. I'm in cyoa threads quite a bit.

>> No.47804847

>>47803869
>Why are Amazons almost always portrayed as tribal and low-tech, or even barbaric?
Because it is a reference to a myth from another time and by being close to it you have a stronger and immediate association; also fapbait.
>Any reasons Amazons couldn't advance like humans or any fantasy race?
They are usually a warlike people and their mean of reproduction would end up with them having little population and little interest in something that isn't war; no actual reason to not change this if you want developed amazons though.
>What are some more interesting and diverse examples of Amazons in games or fiction?
I don't know many, warhammer's have them being chosen of the elder race, have access to some of their magitech amd there's an implication that their all-female population is kept up by reporpused cloning pools; DC comics have developed their own advanced amazons, futurama has another kind.

The amazon theme in sci-fi settings can be a good way to build an alien race at times, while I don't have examples at hand, I'm pretty sure someone did it.

>> No.47804868

Same reason all-male societies are similarly depicted as tribal, low-tech, and barbaric.

The different genders civilize one another.

>> No.47804892

>>47804840
>would you do to make Amazons stand out from humans
make them less technological like every time in any setting. If you have gainz you lose INT and it will never change, else you have dis-balance

>> No.47804923

>>47804868
>all-male societies
Are there such things?

>> No.47804974 [SPOILER] 
File: 177 KB, 640x360, 1466103363320.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
47804974

>>47804840
>I might make another cyoa
>We can RP sometime

>> No.47805008

>>47804923
All human factions of Warhammer Fantasy, to begin with.

>> No.47805050

Because their myth describes them as fucking barbarians (to the Greek) and that's what people whent with when they wrote the Pulp Fantasy stories that spawned their popularity.

Of course you could to highly advanced Amazons, but at that point they aren't really Amazons anymore. Names are descriptors meant to invoke a picture. If you make barbarians highly sophisticated and advanced, then they aren't barbarians anymore.
Except when you are Greek or Roman and you are using the word with its original meaning.

>> No.47805072

>>47804840
>A setting where Amazons are the only humans could be cool.
It would marginalize male players.

>> No.47805094

>>47805072
>It would marginalize male players.

They deserve it.

>> No.47805097

>>47805008
>Damsels

>> No.47805112

>>47804840
>In a more technological setting, what would you do to make Amazons stand out from humans, since being big and strong wouldn't be quite as important?
They're all female.

>> No.47805128

>>47805094
>Men deserve to be punished for being born.

>> No.47805135

>>47803869
>women
>inventing technology

Pick one.

>> No.47805140

>>47805135
Hedy Lamarr...?

>> No.47805176
File: 93 KB, 609x420, 1z4h7p0.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
47805176

DC Amazons have all kinds of magic bullshit

>> No.47805219

>>47805176
They also rape and kill sailors and send their boys off to be slaves.

>> No.47805261
File: 29 KB, 277x310, Capture.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
47805261

>>47805176
Right up Angel's alley.

>> No.47805273

>>47804847

Didn't know about the Warhammer ones. They sound pretty neat.

>>47804892

They're strength would really have to be superhuman if it's supposed to be enough to make them competitive with races who have advanced technology. Maybe magically enhanced or something.

>>47805050

Just because original ones were barbarians doesn't mean they have to be in all settings all the time!

>>47805112

It'd be more interesting if there was a bit more than that to it.

>>47805176

Wow, that looks pretty psychedelic.

>> No.47805295

>>47805273
You can have a female race of hyper advanced warriors, sure. But that makes them not Amazons.

>> No.47805321

>>47803869

Women can't build civilization. Watch any of those survival shows with women, they get fucking nothing done.

>> No.47805378

>>47805094

Edgy. Back to tumblr you go!

>> No.47805432

>>47805273
Hey, you little slut. Why aren't you using CYOA General for your attention needs? We miss you.

>> No.47805496

>>47803869
Because they're a gimmick, a one-off joke on a character's masculinity, an excuse to show muscular women in bikinis or some guy's femdom fetish. They never evolve because they're not a complete culture, you've got people calling them another race in this thread, for fuck's sake.

The association of "savage warrior woman" is so strong that more fleshed out matriarchal cultures don't even think of using the name.

If you want something different, you'd have to see this culture from different aspects than just the battlefield. Like >>47804377 pointed out, there are other needs for a society than hitting people with sticks. There need to be Amazon farmers, blacksmiths, bakers, beaurocrats and tailors. There will be women more busy with childcare than warfare and the guys will contribute to society because you can't afford to throw out 50% of your population once you left the tribal era.

In short, they won't be Amazons to most people. At best you have a caste of women warriors sporting traditonal atire, but the smart ones will go with the times. Maybe they're like the late samurai; a class loosing it's importance as modernity begins, clinging to ideals created in a world they never were part of.

>> No.47805519

>>47804840
They're still all female and rather warlike. Play off that

>> No.47805556

>>47805496
>The guys will contribute
In a typical Amazon depiction they're pretty much wunderkin, the only thing they could use their males for would be unskilled labor, and only because of numbers.

>> No.47805578
File: 159 KB, 698x392, WTF is Sheryl reading.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
47805578

>>47805176
>Wonder Woman, who can fly on her own and has an invisible jet, needs a fuckhuge flying 'roo to carry a bunch of people

>girl wants to eat MORE of the "lovely glass candy the NYMPHS gave her"

>> No.47805641

>>47803869
Holy fuck I must know where to get these models. Anyone know which company makes them?

>> No.47805679

>>47805556
>In a typical Amazon depiction they're pretty much wunderkin
And that's the bullshit. If you want a culture to evolve and diversify, it needs to face challenges.

If "warrior chick in fur bikini" can just brute force through every problem, that's all these people ever will be, and their evolutionary course is set for anglerfish.

>> No.47805708

>>47805641

http://hinterlandminiatures.weebly.com/

>>47805519

Yeah, that could be used for a start, and then add stuff like >>47804377 said.

>>47805432

I just posted there a minute ago. I've been around, but not with trip cuz it seems like people don't like it. I thought it was ok for a thread though.

>> No.47805735

>>47805679
Which is why matriarchies in fiction never make any sense.

>> No.47805781

>>47805708
Thanks so much for the link!!

>> No.47805805

>>47805679
Anglerfish?

>> No.47805821
File: 117 KB, 540x380, 1446933447211.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
47805821

>>47805072
The men can still be competent. Just picture a race where every man is Steve Trevor with his own personal Diana.

>> No.47805822

>>47805805
Their males are small parasites that attach to the females then dissolve until they're just a pair of testicles.

>> No.47805843

>>47805821
>Competent
>Extremely inferior to the women in every way, so they do manual labor jobs you don't need a woman for
That's not being competent.

>> No.47805900

>>47804392
This. It's fantasy, no one gonna explain shit

>> No.47805925

>>47805735
It's rather because most writers are unable to portray nuance. There never was a society as simple as "men rule, women obey" and it doesn't work the other way around.

The closest thing you could get is extreme fundamentalist Islam and even those guys have rules how to interact with other people.

>>47805805
Once the male finds a female it attaches itself to it's bloodstream and looses nearly all organs, becomming nothing but a sperm producing organ.

>> No.47805933

>>47805008
Then how do they reproduce?

>> No.47805963

>>47805933
Like the Orkz. Fuckers just pop from the ground and wreck shit.

>> No.47805992

>>47805963
Then they aren't male, but asexual

>> No.47806513

>>47803869
In my games the Amazons are the Not!Greeks, complete with an Alexandra the Great.

>> No.47806583

>>47805933

You know, with their dicks.

>> No.47806673

>>47806513

>Alexandra the Great

Awesome! I like that.

>>47805781

No problem! They're very nice.

>>47805261

Yep.

>> No.47806761

>>47804044
Someone else who plays hordes of the things? Wow!

>> No.47807099
File: 167 KB, 625x411, 694694184561914.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
47807099

One time me and my friends ran a cheesy 80s campaign where we were Ninja Commandos in the jungle and one of our main missions was to stop mercenary amazons from taking over a country. GM did some shit where the amazons were really connected with nature that they gain special powers from being barefoot or just being near plants.


What I am trying to convey is that amazons seem better if they are more nature oriented than technological but this cant stop them from using guns or helicopters.

>> No.47807126

>>47806761

I've been RPing for awhile, but I'm new to wargaming. Friend said Hordes of the Things is good to try it out because not lots of figures and very simple rules. Not sure if I'll stick with the wargaming thing, but I like painting so it's ok either way.

>> No.47807147

>>47807099

I see! That's very creative idea! Might have to try something like that in the future if I get the chance.

>> No.47807366

>>47805295
This, desu senpai

>> No.47808993

How come we dont see alot of amazons in todays media? I can only think of Futurerama but snoo snoo doesnt seem like enough.

>> No.47810367

>>47808993
Because tumblr.

>> No.47810508

>>47805578
Marston-era Wonder Woman is a hell of a drug.

>> No.47810720

>>47803869
Daily reminder that the "Amazons" of antiquity were traps. The romans who wrote the history books either confused them for women or were mocking them for their long hair and feminine builds.

>> No.47810765

Well you can do something like this, you'd have to change a few things like their greek/scythian roots. Anyway you could make them an industrial higher tech fantasy race, however for balance you should make them basically human(they are almost already, but they are still called a different race) basically remove their racial super strength. They can still be slightly stronger than normal men but not barbarian level like they normally are. Anyway basically have them assume the role that men did in the 1800's or so. For the most part they are in charge, and they fight, and they own the business. There are men, however they are mostly used for making kids, raising them, and other domestic duties. The woman is the breadwinner, and brings home the bacon, while the man cooks it. Also maybe modernize their government a bit and make it no longer a traditional absolute monarchy like it normally is but have it be a constitutional monarchy with checks against the queen, all female citizens can vote etc. men can't vote, but there is a male suffragist movement. There are a few other things you can add in. Try making Victorian England but swap the genders.

>> No.47813311

>>47810720
>citation needed

>> No.47813329

>>47803869

Amazons don't exist. Their myths were based on a tribe which was primitive relative to their romans who came up with said myths

>> No.47813436

>>47810720
not so much traps as their priestly caste was really fem and probally "twospirited" or trans in modern speak,and would often drink the piss of pregnant mares(loaded full of near human estrogen) and constantly chew the root of licorice plants (loaded with a natural testerone blocker) it made them really girly feeding the myth that all sythians were woman

>> No.47813457

>>47813436

Gender dysphoria has an occurrence on the order of one in 20 thousand. That seems a little low for a priest caste. Dressing like a woman doesn't make you trans.

>> No.47814467

>>47813457
And even then not all cases of gender morphia are the same.

>> No.47814482

>>47813436
Amazons were made up by Greek writers, the fuck are you on about?

>> No.47814512

>>47814482
They were loosely based on the Scythians

>> No.47814538

>>47813329

Most of the shit on this board doesn't exist. Knight-errants, studded leather armor, functional Communism... None of this shit ever existed. We're talking portrayal in fantasy, not how real life works, because pretty much everything in /tg/ is a fantasy. Even games that take place in modern or historical settings are complete farces because they deal in people who never existed doing shit that never happened.

>> No.47814602
File: 198 KB, 793x4000, History_of_Marxism.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
47814602

>>47814538
>no such thing as functional Communism
Well, that is where you are wrong, comrade.

>> No.47814859

>>47813436
Bet they'd make good boysluts.

>> No.47815913
File: 25 KB, 195x195, 1389280441985.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
47815913

>>47803960
This.

>> No.47816686

>>47808993
Because they're boring. Amazons are tribal, martial, jungle women. Most media isn't conducive to their inclusion.

>> No.47816720

>>47814602
>post talks about communism
>image talks about socialism
>image named "History of Marxism"
Either all those terms are interchangeable and therefore meaningless, or you're a moron.

>> No.47816730

>>47813436
>and would often drink the piss of pregnant mares(loaded full of near human estrogen) and constantly chew the root of licorice plants (loaded with a natural testerone blocker)

>doubt.jpg
Reads like something modern trans supportive groups would made up to justify themselves through appeal to precedences.

>> No.47817013

>>47803869
If all you need for a group to qualify as Amazons is matriarchy then there is no reason they couldn't be more advance.
Sufficiently advanced technology or magic could do away with the need for men completely.

The Amazons of Greek myth did without men in their society completely in some versions disposing of the male children one way or another. In other version their men were slaves.

The depiction of Amazons as technologically inferior seems to be a invention of modern times (probably from a desire to cloth them in furs like a female Conan) as you can see in this 1696 picture is almost impossible to distinguish the Amazon queen from the Greek soldiers.

Barbarian is word we use somewhat differently today from the way if was used by the Greeks. For them it was a catch-all term for outsiders which naturally would include some pretty backward hillbilly types but also included the Persians who were just as civilised as the Greeks.

The defining qualities of the Amazons were that they were female and they were warriors. In a non-historical setting this could be any type of society you fancy that make their way in the world by beating up their neighbours.

>> No.47817025
File: 272 KB, 800x650, 800px-Thalestris,_Queen_of_the_Amazons,_visits_Alexander_(1696).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
47817025

>>47817013
>Herodotus reported that the Sarmatians were descendants of Amazons and Scythians, and that their wives observed their ancient maternal customs, "frequently hunting on horseback with their husbands; in war taking the field; and wearing the very same dress as the men". Moreover, said Herodotus, "No girl shall wed till she has killed a man in battle".

>> No.47817040

>>47803869
Because by definition, Amazons were all women barbarians.

If they stop being barbarians then they stop being amazons and instead are just referred to as Amazonian to recognise the higher emphasis on war and matriarchy.

>> No.47817200

>>47803960
Seeing this thread I was wondering how many replies it would take for this exact post. I am shocked to find the number as high as three.

>> No.47817202

>>47803869
Because everytime women get into power the society around them collapses.
Besides, every human technological advancement has been invented by men and loathed by women.

>> No.47818642

>>47804377
>Only in the movie.

Not true.

>> No.47819013

>>47818642

An interpretation. It could be gunpowder, or it could be magic. Whichever you choose to believe is fine, but don't act as though it's the only way to interpret those passages.

>> No.47819130

>>47804262
... Are there amazons in LOTR and GW2?

>> No.47819166

>>47803896
>"Mah safe space"
>I-I can't accept facts that not every race/group of people are as technology and culturally advanced as others.

>> No.47819254

>>47817013
Tossing out half your population is foolhardy, especially when you're a technological society and that other half is at least as mentally capable as the other.

>> No.47821598

>>47819254
Maybe why we no longer keep slaves?

>> No.47821657

>>47821598
if by "we" you mean United States
>other half is at least as mentally capable

>> No.47821672

>>47821598
We don't keep slaves because we're not an agrarian society that gets most of its money out of cheap farmwork you need uneducated bodies for. We also learned that it was cheaper just to pay someone just barely enough to survive instead of having to keep a slave healthy.

>> No.47823099

>>47821672
>We also learned that it was cheaper just to pay someone just barely enough to survive instead of having to keep a slave healthy.
Actually still cheaper to use slaves especially in western countries, what with labour laws and taxes that can be avoided, the fact you can keep half dozen slaves in a single room, and they can be fed less than is really needed.

>>47821657
>if by "we" you mean United States
lol no. Rounding up the least desirable of a primitive culture and then selectively breeding them for submission and dependence was a terrible idea. I'm sure cultures where the children of slaves were born free didn't have this problem so bad.

>> No.47823126

>>47804377
I love how no one actually knows the original Amazon myths, only the cardboard cutout version.
They were a fully developed society, men did exist in it.
They just couldn't hold any position of power in any way shape or form.

>> No.47823216

>>47805321
>Watch these completely fictional shows where everyone is hired to be useless, whiny shits and then told specifically to be even more useless and whiny.
> They perfectly mirror reality.

>> No.47823239 [SPOILER] 
File: 101 KB, 600x399, 1466195205858.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
47823239

>>47803869
I prefer my Amazons a little different.

>> No.47823301

>>47814602
>communism
>socialism
>no finland or sweden

>> No.47823776

Why does this still life?!

>> No.47823863
File: 97 KB, 550x661, Improved LotR Love Story.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
47823863

>>47823776

Maybe /tg/ likes Amazons? Or maybe they just like qts in their games even if they're not Amazons?

>> No.47824580

>>47823863
Well it certainly explains why /cyoag/ likes you

>> No.47825978

>>47824580

Don't! You'll make me blush anon!

>> No.47826174
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47826174

>>47810367

If anything I would think tumblr would love the idea of amazons

>> No.47826280

>>47804392
Sause?

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