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45958712 No.45958712 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Voodoo edition

Discuss the Warcraft universe and its viability in a tabletop game.

Last thread:
>>45945227

>> No.45958772
File: 114 KB, 374x384, 1457492294766.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45958772

First for best friends

>> No.45958792

>>45958712
DE AMANI NEVA GIVE UP

WE NEVA FORGET

WE NEVA DIE

>> No.45958830

>>45958792
And then they were reduced to a mount farm raid.

>> No.45958854

>>45958830

So has the Scourge, Burning Legion, etc.

>> No.45958870

>>45958772
I tried to hover over that image to see what the translations were.

>> No.45958920
File: 108 KB, 689x434, Zul'AmanLOC.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45958920

>>45958792
Trolls best race.
Amani best trolls.

>> No.45958923

>>45958712
It would be pretty cool, lots of room for expansions different races factions etc, It being inspired by Warhammer helps make it a lot more familiar

>> No.45959069

>>45958712
Did the guy with the metzen-free-azeroth wikia update the URL yet? Where can I find it?

Also who here will get the Warcraft Chronicles comicbook?

>> No.45959134

>>45958712
Did the guy with the metzen-free-azeroth wikia update the URL yet? Where can I find it?

Also who here will get the Warcraft Chronicles comicbook?

>> No.45959477

>>45959069
http://metxen-free-azeroth.wikia.com/wiki/Alternate_Azeroth_Wikia

>> No.45959772

>>45958792
I like the Revantusk tribe

Too bad for some fucking reason forest trolls, wildhammer dwarves and broken draenei still aren't playable

>> No.45960193

>>45958792
SO IF YOU WANNA STAY

YOU STAY FO EVA

WE GONNA BURY YOU HERE

>> No.45960267

>>45958491
>Take more heavily from humanity's Vrykul heritage, add Frost humans or something.
I actually like this idea a lot but it would to require someone at Blizzard to realize that there could be other populations of degenerate Vrykul besides those that settled in the Eastern Kingdoms.

While this is entirely possible, their handling of the Wastewander lore shows that they don't seem to even consider that possibility. The funny thing is that making them stranded pirates creates more plotholes than having them be a different population of humans, since we've got human Ancestral Guardians in Uldum.

>> No.45960502

Did that guy who was posting fluffy stuff from the RPG books ever come back?

The tauren stuff was pretty cool, I'd love to see what the RPG books said about the other races

>> No.45960560

>>45960502
I was simply posting what I remember about it.
It was a long time ago.

>> No.45960609
File: 465 KB, 1113x856, ALI.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45960609

>>45958870
The Drink is labeled Frost Wyrm Flavored

I wonder if someone translated all his work yet.

>> No.45960702
File: 136 KB, 1191x670, garrosh_by_hipnosworld-d6gvty1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45960702

;_;

>> No.45960739

Is it common headcanon or actual canon that the biggest war ever fought on Azeroth was between trolls and the qiraji/nerubians before elves or any of that shit existed?

I love that idea, but seen no official support for it

>> No.45960779

>>45960739
the Troll-Aqir War was definitely the largest war geographically, but you could argue that the War of the Ancients, Third War and the Burning Crusade were larger in scope, but those were all won pretty quickly

>> No.45960798

>>45960779
The largest geographically and in terms of length of time.

Didn't it last for generations?

>> No.45960943

>>45960739
Prett sure War of the Anciesnts is the biggest. A full-blown Legion invasion that resulted in death of several demigods and only ended with the destruction of the Well of Eternity, imploding half of Azeroth's landmass in the process.

>>45960609
Clockwise from top left: Neltharion, Ysarne, Malygos, Nozromu? With Alextraza in the center, obviously.

>> No.45960974

>>45960609
Ysera best Dragonfu

>> No.45961007

Whatever happened to dark trolls?

I remember them back in WC3, but they just don't exist in WoW

>> No.45961025

>>45961007
there was a single tribe left in WoW (represented by Darkspear models) that couldn't be reached by foot but were visible from flight paths. They all died in the Shattering

>> No.45961041

>>45961025
Is there ANYTHING nice about Warcraft that Cataclysm didn't ruin?

>> No.45961043

>>45960943
bot right is Nozromu and bot left is Malygos.

>>45960974
But you have to kill her now.

>> No.45961062

>>45960193
>>45958792

NO BUDDEHS BADDUH DEN ME!

GOT ME SOME NEW TRICKS NOW, LIKE ME BRADDUH BEAR!

SAY HELLO TO ME NEW BRADDUHS, FANG... AND CLAW!!

DERE BE NO HIDING FROM DA EAGLE!

YA DON'T HAVE TO LOOK TO DA SKIES..TO SEE.. DA DRAGON HAWK!!

FIRE KILL YOU.... JUST AS QUICK

YA TOO SLOW, ME TOO STRONG!

>> No.45961134

>>45960739
Elemental vs Elemental, Elemental vs Old God, Old God vs Titan and War of the Anceints were all likely bigger.

>> No.45961162

>>45960702
NEVER FORGET

;_;7

>> No.45961166

The warcraft timeline is weird as shit. Even ignoring crap like the ludicrous age of some characters.

>> No.45961427
File: 855 KB, 1000x895, Setesh.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45961427

>>45961041
Not really. There were a few bits that looked like they had potential but the story was gutted by the time.

I want to see the story they had originally planned for Uldum. Their creation of Setesh as a construct empowered by Chaos and Void seems like a story that could have had potential, especially with the new lore pertaining to the Titans' relationship to the creatures of the Void. Unfortunately, Chronicles completely ignores the issue.

I wish they might have actually borrowed some actual Egyptian mythology there. They could have just taken Set's story and shoved some paint over it. Fighting to protect the sun from the unkillable god of evil who sought to devour it, but later being regarded as the god of evil himself. Given power over Void and Chaos to better combat a being of Void and Chaos.

>> No.45961703

>Magtheridon calls himself the Lord of Outland
>barely even controls Hellfire Peninsula
>all of his dimensional gateways moved to other parts of Outland afterwards
the disconnect in how Draenor is portrayed from BtDP to TFT to BC is weird

>> No.45961762

One of the things that I found weird about WoW was the obsession with putting mountains everywhere, and the reluctance to give a lot of coastal regions for the world.

While part of me is annoyed for geographical reasons, I also though it was rather annoying from a lore perspective. Why does noone live on the east coast of the eastern Kingdoms? What about the Northern and southern Kalimdor coasts?

If I was in charge of the world design for WoW (heh) I'd probably have cut off significant regions of the Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor to start with, and made all the maps as a whole much bigger. You've got more room to do stuff with the world and you can convey expansion content without immediately heading off to Outland.

>> No.45961832

>>45961762
A lot of those mountains are just region borders, because in Vanilla, the game world loaded bit by bit and neaded specific gateways in order to handle different zones, and they just left them in for ever expansion, canonically they shouldn't be there.

>> No.45961854

>>45961762
It actually have a reason in lore

Legend says when Neltharion went insane he raised many mountains to split the resources apart, forcing the inhabitants to fight for them.
Which is why there's mountain everywhere.

>> No.45961861

Ok. So.
I am slightly upset.
You see, I watched the Thrall vs. Garrosh cinematic again last night, and I noticed something extremely annoying.

Gorehowl. Doesn't. Fucking. Shriek.

I mean, Jesus Christ, Blizzard. The legendary weapon of the Warsong clans leader doesn't do the thing the whole clan is named after. Fucking hell. Argh.

>> No.45961874

>>45961832
I know, it's annoying. They found a way to use rivers for some zones, so why couldn't they use more of them? It's more realistic and it wouldn't have looked anywhere near as stupid when flying mounts came out (not that they should have came out, since they helped screw up WoW).

God, this just makes me want to make a topographic map of my "ideal" Azeroth I'd use for my "Ideal" WoW.

>> No.45961910

>>45961762
>Why does noone live on the east coast of the eastern Kingdoms?
because Khaz Modan is all mountains, the Swamp of Sorrows and Blasted Lands are shitholes and Tyr's Hand is controlled by the Scarlet Crusade
>What about the Northern and southern Kalimdor coasts?
Darkshore and Tanaris are inhabited and so is Uldum, it's just Silithus and Winterspring that are mountainous

>> No.45961914

>>45961762
>Why does noone live on the east coast of the eastern Kingdoms?
Then people would ask why nobody has tried to explore the oceans to the east.

>What about the Northern and southern Kalimdor coasts?
Aren't there settlements along the northern side of Kalimdor? Stuff like Darkshore? And as for southern Kalimdor, most of that side of the continent is mountains. Uldum's southern end has the Tol'vir city, the Cursed Landing, Neferset, and other settled/built-up areas, however.

>> No.45961921

>>45961874
Please do so, I'm trying to make a Warcraft RPG based off of DnD 4e and the Log Horizon RPG and would love to have that as a a reference

>> No.45961950
File: 95 KB, 774x599, 774px-Dark_troll_concept_art.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45961950

>>45961007
they might still be alive inside the subterranean cave systems beneath mount hyjal. since the night elves have likely hunted them close to extinction throughout the millenia they've had to eke out an existance in the darkest tunnels and pits, growing in hatred and cunning.

>> No.45961968

>>45959477
>>45959069
>>45960267
>>45960502
Are we going to acutally add onto that later or are we still fiddling about with waht to actually use or debating on what is cannon or noncannon exactly? It would be nice to have some consistant if not creative twists of lore to see what would happen.

>> No.45961979

>>45961910
Tyr's Hand is a plagued ruin now.

>> No.45961990

>>45961979
even less reason to live there

I also forgot the Dragonmaw and Wildhammer settlements in the area around Grim Batol

>> No.45962059

>>45961968
The difficulty is that one of the rules is no headcanon.

Removing headcanon while keeping WoW elements and making the lore make sense instead of being stupid as hell is next to impossible. You have to pick two

>> No.45962133

>>45961910
Well, pre-Cata the coast from the southeastern edge of Tanaris all the way around to Southern Feralas was mountainous. Also, Moonglade was mountainous.

Even in mountainous regions, it's annoying that there's so many areas where really steep mountains just drop straight down onto the coast. Even in areas on Earth with mountains next to the sea, there's usually a coast. And yes, I know Azeroth doesn't have to be realistic. I just think it'd be cool.

>>45961914
Except explaining why no-one has explored the oceans to the east is easy; everyone who tries dies. Not to say there's nothing there, just that no-one has ever returned.

About mountains; exactly. I'm sick to death of fucking mountains. Do something different!

>> No.45962164
File: 134 KB, 430x329, Original WC3 Map.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45962164

>>45961921

It'd take longer than this thread would last, I'm afraid, but I could make a start. Hell, maybe I could use the original WC3 concept for Kalimdor in pic related, or mash the two designs together.

>> No.45962209

>>45961950
There is no indication of Night elves actually hunting the trolls.
Else there shouldn't be any left by the time of WC3.

Just consider dark troll as something bz forget to address.

>> No.45962271

>>45957904
A VA asked for so much money they got cut?

Who had that degree of celebrity in 2002?

>> No.45962412

>>45962164
Man, Kalimdor used to be a lot smaller. It's missing the entire southern part. Is the lighter coloured area next to it supposed to be the part that got sunken during the Sundering?

>> No.45962496

>>45962209
Dark trolls were recluse and isolationist, also smaller in population.
They never built big empires like the amani and gurubashi

>> No.45962655

>>45962412
I assume so. I like the WoW idea that it was all originally one big continent. that got sunk, with the maelstrom in the middle.

I'm inclined to make Kalimdor bigger, actually, and move it pretty far south. Say that sunken land is actually above ground, combine that with the WoW style Kalimdor. Move it south so that the desert regions (Durotar, the Barrens etc) are of a level with STV; except STV is now not a jungle at all, but a desert. That way the climatic bands make sense.

As for why most of Kalimdor is uninhabited, I'll go with the original Well of Eternity was so strong it made all of ancient Kalimdor habitable. The new one was weaker, so it couldn't stop the natural climatic forces that make regions 30 degrees north extremely arid. Since it already made the forests of Ashenvale etc extraordinarily lush, why would the Night Elves bother trying to colonise the southern parts of Kalimdor?

I really like the idea of Southern Kalimdor being this wild and untamed land full of ancient mysteries, with the WoW-era Alliance aiming to secure a foothold to prevent Horde expansion, the Horde aiming to exploit the land to provide for themselves, the goblins using Horde and Alliance military might to get a hold on trade, and the Trolls, Silithid and a few others local threats.

Hell, you could move Stranglethorn Vale down to the southern tip of Kalimdor, The place where the Alliance foothold is strongest (call it a trade wind factor making travel there easier) but with the Gurubashi trolls having a significant empire there already.

>> No.45962731

>>45962655
>Move it south so that the desert regions (Durotar, the Barrens etc) are of a level with STV; except STV is now not a jungle at all, but a desert. That way the climatic bands make sense.
STV could still be a jungle. More things affect the climate than just latitude. The Amazon rainforest and the Atacama desert (ie. on of the wettest and the driest place in the world, respectively) are located not only on the same latitude, but right next to each other. Both are even next to the ocean. The reason why one gets nearly non-stop rain and the other hasn't had rain since the time when dinosaurs were still a thing is because of the prelevant wind direction, position of oceanic currents and the presence of mountains.

>> No.45963032

>>45962731
Firstly, they're not. The mouth of the Amazon is 0 degrees 59' south. The Atacama desert in northern Chile is 24 degrees south, much close to the horse latitudes than the equator.

Secondly, the Hadley cells are still really important because they define the bands of high and low pressure. These are disrupted by land-sea pressure differences, but land has a much more significant effect when it is quite bulky and E-W oriented. The N-S oriented EK and Kalimdor will have less of an effect.

The Atacama, the kalahari and Australia's deserts are all on roughly the same latitude. So are the deserts of the american southwest, the Sahara, Arabian and Thar deserts. It's only really Asia's size that allows it to disrupt this with the monsoon cycle so SE asia isn't a desert but central asia is.

I'm not going to have the climates be drawn by straight lines across the map, but considering the sheer amount of arid regions in southern Kalimdor (Durotar, Barrens, Tanaris, Silithus, Uldum) It really needs to be further south than the temperate lands of Azeroth and Lordaeron (I'd say Lordaeron is more England/southern Norway climate and the Kingdom of Azeroth is more Mediterranean).

>> No.45963117

>>45962655
Most of the kalimdor ARE inhabitaed.
You got Furbolgs in Winterspring
Night elves used to live in Silithus before war of shifting sand.

There's literally no place in kalimdor where you can't find native humanoid inhabitants.

>> No.45963138
File: 320 KB, 500x362, FUCK.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45963138

>>45963032
Then there's Un'Goro Crater, but that's strictly noted to be an anomaly.

THERE'S A DEVILSAUR RIGHT BEHIND YOU

>> No.45963547

>can never ask people to post Trolls without a wave of shitposting

>> No.45963561

>>45963117
By that I meant what humanoids (trolloids?) that do live there dont tend to be part of large organised polities. Uninhabited by nightelves horde and alliance, basically.

>>45963138
Yeah I'm not sure what exactly to do with that. Maybe it feeds the river that runs through Uldum, kinda like Ethiopia and the Nile? Stays lush through Titan technology? I don't know.

>> No.45963655

>>45963561
I think Chronicles implies that it and Sholazar Basin are the result of Titan blood bleeding to the surface.

>> No.45963877

>>45963561
The only place in Kalimdor that still live in triblism are Barren, winterspring and Desolace.
Its a really really small range.

>> No.45963922

>>45963655
Even before that it was implied that the pylons in Un'goro had something to do with it being a jungle surrounded by deserts, and Scholazar was stated in WotLK to be that was because of Titans (and Un'goro was implied to be another Titan experiment site).

>> No.45964046

>>45963561
The fatc that I'm signifcantly redrawing the map should clue you in to the idea that I'm taking WoW as a guideline more than as concrete.

Besides, Horde and Alliance outposts =/= they control the territory. Feralas, Desolace, Tanaris and Un'Goro are all mostly feral, leaving aside the Silithid.

I'd actually say the Barrens would be more inhabited in this alt-Azeroth, with several large towns (not that there won't be threats, particularly from quilboar).

>>45963655
That is a part of Warcraft Lore I am more than happy to ignore.

>> No.45964069

>Survival horror game in Silithus
Y/N

>> No.45964127

>>45964069
Implying this isn't just a reference from starship troopers.

>> No.45964152

>>45964069
Survival horror doesn't really fit the Warcraft aesthetic.

>>45964127
And a bit of Dune.

>> No.45964183

>>45964152
>And a bit of Dune.
that's in the Bone Wastes

>> No.45964194

>>45964152
But there's plenty of creepy shit throughout.

>> No.45964226

>>45964183
>Sandgnomes.jpeg

>> No.45964363

>>45962164
Apparently they originally wanted to keep the map something like this for WoW, but the technical limitations of using a heavily modded WC3 engine meant that using continents that weren't roughly square in shape caused issues.

>> No.45964553 [DELETED] 

>>45964046
Feralas has a literally night elf village plundged right in the middle of it.

Tanaris was habited by Sand Trolls and their city.
Up until Murderhobo adventures reduced their number dramaticly.

Desolace is Swarming with Centaurs.

The only non-habitable area is un'goro crator since there's enough Titan defence system to keep even Qirajis at bay.

>> No.45964593

>>45964046
Feralas has a literally night elf city right in the middle of it.

Tanaris was habited by Sand Trolls and their city.
Up until Murderhobo adventures reduced their number dramaticly.

Desolace is Swarming with Centaur tribes

The only non-habitable area is un'goro crator since there's enough Titan defence system there keeping even Qirajis at bay.

>> No.45964784

>>45964593
It was a Highborne city, but it's unclear if the Night Elves have inhabited it since the Sundering.

Increasing the prominence of the Sand trolls would happen in this; they'd be the dominant faction in Tanaris, not stuck up in one corner of it. They'd still not be "big" like the Horde or Alliance.

Again, Desolace is tribal. Now that the Horde is united, the Tauren are going to be pressing them hard.

I'm not saying that southenr Kalimdor will be empty, I'm saying it will not have any polities capable of standing up to the Alliance/Horde, both of whom are looking to expand in that direction.

>>45964363
Early WoW sounds very slapdash.

>> No.45964830
File: 107 KB, 650x390, tourists.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45964830

So, what's the state of the Lore in general at the moment? Haven't played since WotLK, could you give a tl:dr of it, or is it to much of a clusterfuck?

I kinda like the Lore, played Warcraft3, and played till about the end of Lich King, when i realised that it wasn't that great to spend hours grinding each day so you can run a few Raids with the Guild.

But i would like to return to Azeroth, but as a "Tourist", with a ~20hr+ game that has a solid story, not a 100hr grind just to get to the entertaining Gameplay

>> No.45964934

>>45964784
Unclear? there's still Night elf highbornes in there when you go in.
They were attacked by Ogres and were forced to retreat into the west wing
Tell you you did the entire Dire maul.

They WERE the Dominant Faction of Tanaris.
Their power just greatly diminished after the goblins settle in and start hiring Murderhobos to kill them.

But Taurens don't need that much land, they already hold the entire Mulgore and that's a much better place to live.
The reason why desolace stays tribal is because it sucked and people don't want to live there in the first place.

We already have Tol'var and Qiraji in south Kalimdor. You really don't need a 3rd big thing.

>> No.45965016

>>45962059
Ok well we already did some head cannon to patch the holes in dreanai eredar problems of them both bring the same, so as long as it's not cancer we could use it?

>> No.45965142

>>45964934
Highborne =/= Night Elves. For all we know, the Night Elves stayed in the north of the continent and the Highborne wannabes stayed in Dire Maul and became inbred. I never got the impression they were part of the greater Night Elf civilisation that had lasted 10k years since the Sundering.

Still not going to be able to stand up to the Horde or Alliance. Maybe "uninhabited" was the wrong word to use, but I like the idea of Southern Kalimdor being ferla and mostly unexplored.

I've already said I'm removing most of the fucking mountains, including those between Desolace and Mulgore. The tauren and centaur have been at war for a long time, it's just now with the Horde on their side the Tauren have the upper hand.

Like I said, guidelines.

>>45965016
You need some original content, but that doesn't mean it can't be a logical follow up to the Warcraft games instead of a retcon, or that it can't make more sense than actual WoW lore.

>> No.45965229

>>45965016
The no head cannon thing i think means no shipping and shit.

I think the page directly days to fill holes where you remove ret cons

Btw link changed
http://alternate-azeroth-ptoject.wikia.com/wiki/Alternate_Azeroth_Wikia

>> No.45965844

>>45962164
So Azeroth is a name of a continent or of the planet/world?

>> No.45965955

>>45965844
its name of human kingdom (present sw), continent and planet. talk about creativity

>> No.45965982

>>45965142
Highborne was a caste among the night elves, they are biologically identical.
They have a social structure and everything.

They lived from WoTA till the present time, the Highbornes were also immortal, mind you.

>> No.45966375

>>45965844
>>45965955
it did make sense if you look at it from the perspective of only the orcs, but then Blizzard doubled down on it and made everyone call it Azeroth while having Stormwind also be called Azeroth

>> No.45966470

>>45965955
So Stormwind is a city which is a capital of a kingdom called Stormwind which is also called Azeroth, just like a continent and a planet?

>> No.45966774

>>45958712
>tfw __male Troll Brewmaster Monk

A feelin so special, mon

>> No.45966803

>>45966470
Yes, but no one uses "Azeroth" for Stormwind or the continent anymore.

>> No.45966823

>>45966803
It's just the Easter Kingdoms now, right?

>> No.45966875

>>45966823
Yeah, it's just taken as one whole continent instead of two continents, although I think Lordaeron is still referred to as a sub-continent.

The Eastern Kingdoms is just what the continent goes by, much like Kalimdor and the other continents all go by one name.

>> No.45966904

>>45966823
>>45966875
the Eastern Kingdoms are made up of 3 continents: Lordaeron, Khaz Modan, and whatever Azeroth is now

>> No.45966957

>>45965142
Yeah ok that makes sens, what things need help then as I thought the draenai story was fixed somewhat with the light loving ones being a cult that hid in secret and later dominated Argus as the eredar got their shit pushed in by sargi and then later when sargi came back the draemail were already light lovers and Velen buggered off. However to make the simple and crude things work with the warcraft 3 depiction then we had the Nauru being unable to teach the dreanai all the tech they used on their ship and the dreanai own settlements away from the ship depicted this

>> No.45967285

>>45965016
Honestly, I'd rather keep the original Draenei and any variety of Eredar as separate races. However, that runs the risk of causing a massive divergence from WoW's current lore.
>>45965229
>I think the page directly days to fill holes where you remove ret cons
Do we treat plotholes or contradictions the same way?

>> No.45967402

>>45961043
Fuck you explain killing Ysera. Why does Blizz have such a boner for wanting to kill/corrupt perfectly fine characters?

>> No.45967415

>>45967402
Because corruption is Metzen's magical realm, why else?

>> No.45967438

>>45967415
Can we corrupt Thrall?

>> No.45967498

>>45967438
No, you can't corrupt Metzen's not-quite self insert. What kind of stupid question is that?

>> No.45967646

>Alliance Campaign
>Noble, awesome, go-getter blonde protagonist who used to fuck Jaina has the deck ludicrously, comically stacked against him until he turns puppy-kickingly evil until Blizzard's writing team turns everything good about his original homeland to dust in favour of Horde nonsense.

Who am I talking about, /tg/?

>> No.45967668

>>45967646
... Tyrande?

>> No.45967687

>>45967646
Jaina
>Used to fuck Jaina
Them wizards are kinky with their mirror image.

>> No.45967692

>>45967646
Anduin Lothar

>> No.45967700

>>45967646
Illidan?

>> No.45967716

>>45967646
Thrall.

>> No.45967773

>>45967498
Thrall is the hero I'd like to see corrupted.

>> No.45967809

>>45967646
No, but seriously. Every single interesting blonde hero has gone bad and then had their homeland fucked to oblivion, or that in a reverse order.

>> No.45967813

>>45967773
I mean, he already is corrupt.

He betrayed the traditions of Mak'Gora, and now the Doomhammer is heavy in his hand.

>> No.45967841

>>45967646
It's Kael'thas, you dopes.
>Implying Kael'thas fucked Jaina

>> No.45967842

>>45967809
>Every single interesting blonde hero has gone bad and then had their homeland fucked to oblivion, or that in a reverse order.
It's like a metaphor, ain't it?

>> No.45967867

>>45967809
Including Sylvanas and Jaina! Who both used to fuck Jaina.

>> No.45967877

>>45967809
>and then had their homeland fucked to oblivion
Kul Tiras is still ok, probably

>> No.45967879
File: 257 KB, 640x960, Jaina 1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45967879

>>45967773
I think we should stop with the corruption. Good God is it overplayed.

I'm worried about Jaina, though. I have a fear she'll be the next sacrifice to the writing team's love of corrupting characters for raid bosses.

>> No.45967893

>>45967668
>Noble, awesome, go-getter blonde protagonist
>Tyrande

Go to bed, Shandris. She's a moron and a murderer who should've been thrown in a cage with her fellow fuck-up, Illidian.

>> No.45967911

>>45967402
>Fuck you explain killing Ysera.
It's part of the transition to the era of Warcraft. They're done with Dragon Aspects and their role as benign protectors of Azeroth, so they're clearing the slate by killing off all of the old dragons.

Just look at it. The colored Dragonflights are all sterile now, with the possible exception of the Blacks who didn't do any sacrifice with the Dragon Soul, and Alexstrasza is the only original Aspect who we haven't killed yet. On the other hand, they still seem to be introducing new forms of more bestial dragons in Legion.

The Dragonflights have been discarded, destined for nothing more than inevitable irrelevance. They'll be nothing more than a footnote in history should another game ever be released.

>> No.45967989

>>45967879
That's a nice image of Jaina. I didn't know she came in cute.

>> No.45968016
File: 518 KB, 500x648, 1382573645598.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45968016

>>45967911
Which is a damn shame, as the Dragon Aspects are one of my favorite features of the setting. Divine-appointed dragon guardians of various aspects of life? I can dig it.

>>45967989
Where the fuck have you been? Early Jaina was obscenely cute.
>Shhh...I'm trying to think.

>> No.45968039

They should just have killed off dragons and elemental lords in cata, because no one cares about them
One of main mistakes from cata was "literally who" main villain

>> No.45968047

>>45968016
>Early Jaina was obscenely cute.
But she was always tainted by her shades of "condescending pretentious bitch".

>> No.45968072
File: 90 KB, 736x982, Jaina 2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45968072

>>45967989
Just found it a day or two ago while searching DeviantArt, was pleased with it.

>> No.45968181

>>45968039
It's both "Literally who" to people not aware of previous lore, and a butchered character to those who knew who Deathwing was-He was supposed to be craftier and devious, not functionally a kaiju.

>> No.45968244

>>45968039
>One of main mistakes from cata was "literally who" main villain
I'm sure he'd have been better if Blizzard hadn't gotten the wrong idea about people saying that Arthas showed up too often and then proceeded to go off in the opposite extreme.

The only problem with Arthas was that he was like a cartoon villain, saying he'd get you next time or that you weren't important enough for him to bother with.
>>45968016
>Which is a damn shame, as the Dragon Aspects are one of my favorite features of the setting. Divine-appointed dragon guardians of various aspects of life? I can dig it.
Oh, I don't disagree. However, it seems like they've been killing off most of their ancient godlike powers.

Titans, Old Gods, Dragon Aspects, and Elemental Lords. Name a higher power and it's either dead or probably going to be dead soon. Hell, the whole thing going on with the Emerald Nightmare corrupting Cenarius probably means a lot of the Wild Gods will be dead too.

>> No.45968269

>>45967841
Jaina pretty much said he is too old and creepy to date her
Then few years later he got beat up by her ex-boyfriend.

> story of his life.

>> No.45968410

>>45968181
>>45968244
Deathwing has only small earlier role in war2.
And compared to villains llike Arthas, Illidan or Kael no character developement or personality.
Dragons as whole are pretty non-interesting compared to dynamic mortal races, being generic better than good ancient dragons.
Onde of reasons for drop in subs was his generic evil, mad something dragon compared to much more interesting and tragic lich king.

>> No.45969030
File: 120 KB, 550x645, Hellscream vs. Bloodhoof.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45969030

>>45967813
>He betrayed the traditions of Mak'Gora

Not really. They weren't fighting over leadership. It was a duel to the death. Neither of them stripped down to a loincloth, either.

Garrosh challenged Thrall to a mak'gora during the pre-WotLK event. They both went in fully-armored and Thrall was tossing around Shaman magic like nobody's business. In Garrosh's very own short story "Heart of War," he looks back on that mak'gora and considers himself fortunate it was interrupted. Not once did he say that Thrall "cheated." Even in their final mak'gora, Garrosh derides Thrall for "not having the strength of a true warrior," but he doesn't say "you cheated."

In the graphic novel, Bloodsword, a female orc shaman (who's pretty sexy) is challenged to a mak'gora by a blood elf paladin. She whoops his ass using Shaman magic. It's never considered cheating.

All the evidence points to Shaman magic being legal in the confines of a mak'gora.

>> No.45969059

>>45969030
>In the graphic novel, Bloodsword

Bloodsworn*

>> No.45969542
File: 160 KB, 750x1000, for_the_horde.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45969542

>>45969030
Thank you.

I'm tired of so many Garrosh fanboys getting their collective panties bunched because of the nature of his death. You think Garrosh went into that fight thinking he was getting out alive? No, he knew he was going to die, but as he put it in SoO,
>We are the orcish Horde, the true Horde. We die bloody and thrashing on the field of battle, like true orcs should.

Backing down from mak'gora would have made him like Thrall or a human- and would have disgraced his father's name, so he would not abide by it. He would die, clinging to what little honor he had left.

Thrall has superpowers compared to Garrosh, who is very good at killing things with his axe. But that doesn't quite measure up to summoning hurricanes, lightning storms, sundering the earth, and drenching foes in magma.

>> No.45969721

>>45969030
>>45969542
it's not that magic is disallowed, it's that you're only allowed 1 weapon. Thrall chose the Doomhammer as his weapon and then ganked Garrosh with surprise magic

>> No.45970215
File: 190 KB, 766x992, orc_deathknight_armcandy.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45970215

>>45969721
Yet he was doing the same in the first, interrupted bout and no one cried foul.

The only caveat to mak'gora is that the rules are agreed upon by the combatants.
i.e. If they agree to the "fight in your underpants, 1 weapon each, shaman blesses it, gotta have a witness", those are the rules.
If they agree to "the two of us fighting to the death with whatever we've got", those are the rules.

Thrall isn't going emo in Legion because of how he killed Garrosh, it's because Garrosh was right- he guided him onto that bloodsoaked path and did very poorly to deter him from it. He spoke of the honor and glory of Grommash Hellscream, he spoke of old heroes and true orcish ways. Maybe the blood of Hellscream is just too strong. Either way, Thrall blames himself for all the bloodshed and division that Garrosh caused.

>captcha: Select all the food
>select tarantula
>Please select all the appropriate images
Fuck you, you don't know my life

>> No.45970297

>>45964830
I'll say this. The endgame wasn't really the highlight for me before I stopped playing (played up through the original WoD content). The metaplot wasmt either. The smaller stories for the zones are, in my opinion, much more satisfying.

>> No.45970433

>>45970297
Unless it's a post-Cata Alliance zone.

Enjoy pop-culture references and everyone you love dying!

>> No.45970446
File: 84 KB, 486x613, yotsubasorrow.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45970446

>mfw I finish reading the story about Sunwalker Dezco
>all he wanted to do was save his family
>not the baby moo
>please no

>> No.45970604
File: 669 KB, 666x1024, garad'kra.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45970604

>>45969721

As I mentioned earlier, Thrall used magic in their first mak'gora in Orgrimmar. Garrosh, when reflecting on this duel in his short story Heart of War, did not even mention the magic. He was simply grateful that the fight didn't play out until its conclusion, knowing he would've lost.

Again, in the Bloodsworn graphic novel, Ashra the blood elf paladin challenges Shagara the orc shaman to a mak'gora. Shagara goes in wearing a loincloth and rag to cover her breasts. Ashra goes in wearing a tank top and some baggy pants. Ashra wields a big 2h sword and Shagara has an axe, shield, and a totem pendant around her neck. She beats Ashra using Shaman magic and nobody says she cheated.

>> No.45970744
File: 1.55 MB, 400x286, 1441246375987.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45970744

>>45970446
>look it up

JUST USE LAY ON HANDS YOU COWADIN

DON'T LET YOUR KID DIE

>> No.45970760

>>45970604
Just because people cheated in past mak'gora doesn't mean Thrall should get away with it.

>> No.45970768

>>45970215
Thrall did 2 dumb shit that put Garrosh on his path

1. He picked him when he explitedly stated he isn't ready, that he knows nothing of governing a nation (and he is right), yet Thrall forced him on the spot.

2. Thrall's idea was to leave 3 advisor for Garrosh, yet Carine immediately turned on Garrosh the moment they don't see eye to eye.
Making the point of the advisors moot.

And honestly, after Cata he should leave the healing world shit to other shamans and immediately head back to clean up the mess, he didn't.
He would rather play kissy kissy at maelstorm.

>> No.45970998

>>45964830
A lot of shit happened. I haven't played since early BC but I caught the one or the other lore bit.

And frankly, yes, everything is a clusterfuck of poorly written status quo MMO-tivation, except for small quests more or less unrelated to the major storylines.

>Cataclysm
Deathwing came back, and he came out of another plane of existence that was still somehow just underground Azeroth and because he came out like a huge explosion, he basically shattered the earth's crust, which led to the whole world being severly torn up. Thrall gets called to heal the world and calm the elemental spirits who're also fuckangry because the world got fucked upside-down and declares Garrosh his successor as warchief. Garrosh is super expansionist and makes a lot of enemies by being a dick. The Dragon Aspects unite once again and somehow acquire a new Dragonsoul with which they kick Deathwing's shit in. Deathwing dies, the Dragonaspects lose their godlike powers.

>Pandaria
The players get what they wanted since TFT: Pandas. Horde/Alliance finally manage to arrive in Pandaria and bring their whole war with them. Garrosh becomes and even bigger dick, alienates all the other Horde races and exploits some forbidden evil power that was buried in Pandaria. The other Horde races ally with the Alliance, kick down the gates to Orgrimmar and then Garrosh's teeth in. Garrosh is set up for a war trial, but escapes through off-screen time travel shenanigans.

[Cont.]

>> No.45971084

>>45970998
>Cataclysm
>the elemental spirits who're also fuckangry because the world got fucked upside-down
Addendum: Ragnaros came back for his comeback tour, but now he's dead for real since he died in the elemental plane of fire.

>> No.45971121

>>45971084
Also, Malfurion woke up.

>> No.45971187

>>45970998
Cue
>Warlords
Garrosh uses time-travel and stargate shenanigans to connect an alternate timeline Draenor with our timeline Azeroth through the Dark Portal, where he prevented the alternate timeline Orcs from drinking demonblood and industrialises them and unites them under alt-timeline Grom Hellscream as the "Iron Horde" and invades our Azeroth.
He gets his shit kicked in a final time, while alternate timeline Gul'Dan still manages to corrupt Orcs to drink demonblood and summon Archimonde to Draenor, even though we were told that demons have no alternate selves and exist in all timelines as a single entity. I don't actually know if alternate timeline Draenor gets canonically separated from our Azeroth again or not.

Now we're anxiously waiting for
>Legion
Gul'Dan is somehow still alive after a dying Archimonde made him go POOF! out of random theatralic anger and he comes to our Azeroth to find the Tomb of Sargeras. Illidan (not from an alternate timeline afaik) gets resurrected, as well, and introduces his elite corps of Demon Hunters. Everybody flocks to the Lost Isles where the Tomb of Sargeras lies and wants to prevent the Legion from arriving in full number. In an initial assault, a lot of faction leaders are supposed to die or go MIA, including Varian Wrynn and Thrall. Vol'Jin became new Warchief after Pandaria for a brief time, but now also went missing and for some reason, Sylvanas became new warchief of the Horde.

>> No.45971280

>>45970760
>Just because people cheated in past mak'gora

You're missing the point. It's never considered cheating. By Garrosh or anyone else.

>> No.45971324

>>45971187
Archimonde's final shot was to send Goa'dan through the Dark portal , not Poof him.

Archimonde is a demon of intergrity with a great sense of responsibility, upholding his job till his last breath.

>> No.45971325

>>45971187
Sylvanas is the new warchief now? But she's already like, 60% corrupted!

>> No.45971327

>>45971280
>1 on 1
>Gets the elements to fight for him

It's cheating bro.

>> No.45971355

>>45971325
But she is Dave Kosak's waifu

All if forgiven.

>> No.45971378

>>45971187
>Tomb of Sargeras
Speaking of which, did Maiev ever let the rest of the Night Elves know about that? Or did the Night Elves in general already know of the tomb's location? It seems like something that would be important enough to bring up in conversation.

>> No.45971419

>>45971327

>not reading everything posted ITT about this exact issue

Yeah, I'm just gonna write you off as a fucking retard.

>> No.45971485

Looking at how furiously people would love to see Lor'Themar Theron as Warchief, I'm reminded of so much stereotypical fantasy where Orcs and other brutish creatures/Monster races are the rank-and-file footsoldiers led by the cunning of a "nega-Elf" of sorts, but this time the evil Elf isn't an edgy colourswap but a genuine elf who likes to wear red and has seen so much bloody war he's become a monster on the inside, instead, instead of the outside.

Speaking of blood elves: I really think they shouldn't have restored the Sunwell. The drivenness and predatorial need to consume magic made the blood elves a truly unique take on elves I had never seen before. Due to increased Fel exposure we could have had beautifully terrible elfkin and their lore could have shown them slowly adapting to their new situation, evolving away from crackaddicts looking for their next shot towards magical vampires who understand their need to feed but do not give in to their bestial frenzy.

>> No.45971537

>>45971419
I read it all, all it proves is that shaman like to cheat in mak'gora.

>> No.45971764

>>45971537
Shut the fuck up about Mak'gora!

Mak'gora is a concept that only works if we removed about 90% of all spellcasters and didn't treat those spellcasters like an RPG-class. It's based entirely around the tradition of a society where Shamans were basically nothing else but shroom-eating, drum-banging, herbal fumes inhaling weirdos claiming to commune with invisible creatures that somehow embody nature. A society where being capable to fight is a mandatory requirement to be deemed an adult and where fighting is carried out by two guys who know jack-shit about mumbling moonspeak and waving their hands like at a rave.

But because this is WoW, where spellcasters are a profession just like insurance salesmen and everything is primarly a game, the concept is distorted and completely useless because both the writers and the players seem unable to separate lore from gamemechanics.

>> No.45971781

>>45971485
i liked the crack addict feel to the belfs, cities covered in crystallized demons and no one planning ahead to what this path might lead too, for now the belfs can act like a addict that won the lottery and built a mansion out of crystal meth and hookers.

>> No.45971827

>>45971485
Overexposed elves become Wretched.
Its very clearly mentioned in the early BE quests.

Unless you enjoy a nation of Wretched that simply doesn't work.

>> No.45971908

>>45971827
That's true. The Wretched are what happens when elves either go maximum methhead and/or are fully deprived of any source of magic.

>> No.45971955

>>45971827
Wasn't the Wretched because of "lack" of a source of magical/spiritual energy? That's what I got out of those quests. I also get that overexposure from Fel leads to mutation (Greenskin Orcs, Satyr night elves, several demon footsoldier races originally being mortal but becoming 'demonized'), but I was actually counting on that for a slight shift in the blood elves' design, but maintaining that they must enact self-restraint in order to not go fully mutant elf.

>> No.45972314

>>45971955
No, wretched are blood elves that "drank to deep" in arcane and fell energies and lost themselves to the sensation.

So, you know, crack elves

>> No.45972983

>>45966904
I think the lower portion of the Easterb Kingdoms is still called Azeroth. So it's Lordaeron, Khaz Modan and Azeroth for the three continents.

>> No.45973000

>>45972314

Also important to note that in theory anyone can become wretched. Orc wretched bands exist in Draenor 2. It could be argued that the Kaldorei are an unnatural mutation of Trolls through the same principal.

>> No.45973018

>>45971908
Bc file called them crackelfs

>> No.45973067

>>45972314
There were some high elves that became wretched in some lodge

>> No.45973152

>>45973000
>Orc wretched bands exist in Draenor 2.
lol what, where? I never played WoD

>> No.45973267

>>45973000
Uh, no.

Pale Orcs are corrupted by the dark powers Cho'gall serves, citing maddening whispers in the dark as the reason for their descent. Void creatures, presumably.

>> No.45973271 [DELETED] 

>>45973152

In caves in Shadowmoon Valley. The backstory was they were Shadowmoon Clan warlocks who OD'd on demonic energies and became wretched. They were subsequently banished to caves to die. Their in-game models are also crack elves.

>> No.45973303

>>45971908
no you can go without magic.

Its like a drug addiction.
High elves fought it with meditation.

>>45973067
after uncovering a artifact of incredible arcane energy that got everyone hooked up.

>> No.45973330
File: 1.52 MB, 6000x2778, 1457636228460.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45973330

>Origins
Dwarves, Human, Gnomes. Gotcha
Orc and (sorta) Draenei from Draenor
Elves are from Trolls. Right, right.

From where did Ogres, Goblins, Pandaren and Original Trolls decedent from?

And I totally forget where Tauren/Centaurs came from, but I'm sure it's mentioned.

>I know the chart is wrong its just the pic I had.

>> No.45973361
File: 3.49 MB, 3840x2160, 1453433646265.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45973361

I wish WoW were a bit more grimdark or mysterious. Cartoony is just not really their thing, even if they push it so much.

My favorite zones are spooky ones like Deadwind Pass, Duskwood, and the Plaguelands. Storm Peaks for its mystery as well.

Which is why I hate the Goblin zones so much, they are annoying as hell.

>> No.45973378

>>45973303

Its funny how after all these years, not once have (Alliance) High Elves tried to switch to the Night Elves' moonwells.

>> No.45973379

>>45973330
>Ogres,
Draenor
>Goblins, Pandaren and Original Trolls
natural evolution

>> No.45973448

>>45973000

>The Wretched are elves (usually blood elves) that failed to control their innate addiction to magic, overindulging in arcane sources to the point of deformity and, often, insanity. Obsessed with obtaining and devouring magic, they are a danger to both themselves and others, and are usually too violent to surrender.
>source: Blood of the Highborne

>>45973330
This image is completely unofficial and the idea of mutating dwarves into salamanders is really, really speculative. Not to mention that "Azotha" wasn't even a thing beyond a tribe of humans.
Earthen were never transformed into Iron Dwarves- the Iron Dwarves, Iron Giants, and Iron Vrykul were simply made that way as per Loken's orders.
Earthen is misspelled. And the plural of vrykul is vrykul.

>> No.45973455

>>45973330
Ogres are also from draenor. Goblins were cave-dwelling slaves of trolls in the lost isles until they were mutated by kajamite and got "smart". Pandaren are descended from the same stock as furbolgs, where that stock came from I have no idea.

Don't know where trolls first came from, just that they're the oldest race on Azeroth. Originally they were on Azeroth before titans found Azeroth and started doing experiments and shit on it, but I think that's been retconned away

>> No.45973499

>>45967285
I think it means contradictions go with what ever came first and you fill in plot holes with logical shit.

It could be clearer on the rules couldn't it?

>> No.45973597
File: 179 KB, 747x1024, 1353450219464.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45973597

>>45973361
>Worgen: Spooky werewolf theme, cool music, interesting Gilnean architecture that was human but a departure from the same-old Stormwind "Ye Olde Castle" theme
>Never see it again after finishing intro questline
>Nevermind, they have some tents in Duskwood
>Waffle around on models, females look like werechihuahuas on crack with shitty breast implants

>Goblins: WACKY WACKY WACKY. Drive your car around, make money! HONK HONK. Crazy capitalism! Explosions! Abundant pollution! WOO WOO
>They get an entire zone for themselves and their CrAzY aNtiCs
>are part of almost every worthwhile Horde engagement
>Superior models all around

Gee, I wonder where Blizz spent all their time in the race development in Cata.

>> No.45973607

>>45973303
The withdrawal killed off the weak and old high elves

>> No.45973707

>>45973455
>Don't know where trolls first came from, just that they're the oldest race on Azeroth. Originally they were on Azeroth before titans found Azeroth and started doing experiments and shit on it, but I think that's been retconned away

That's neat. I hope not.

>> No.45973728

>>45973378
High elves in allerian stronghold used draenei artifacts with raw energi stores in them to not fall to fel consumption

>> No.45973731
File: 184 KB, 471x354, GWN1QV6.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45973731

>>45973607
see
>>45973448

Odds are that, rather than making a pilgrimage to the reignited Sunwell, the ones in that lodge said "sounds fishy, let's keep meditating" and then eventually were all like
>pic related
and went ham on every source of mana they could get their hands on.

Either that, or nearby blood elves deliberately sabotaged them to get them to succumb to the Wretched state.

>> No.45973907

>>45973597
Goblins got fucked over too

Not as hard as the worgens, obviously, but the entire goblin starting quest line is there to make you hate Gallywix, who then gets to remain the leader of Bilgewater cartel scot free and isn't even in the game so you can't switch to an alliance character and kill him.

A large amount of the story from Cata onwards feels like it was designed to infuriate, rather than be enjoyable

>> No.45973926

>>45967285
Getting back on track for fixing the lore would it make better sense to keep the duo of Eredar and Draenai the same race with some bending of the lore to reflect that or show them as two different races?

Way I see it I liked the idea of them starting out evil, turned good then were corrupted once more to the fel. Would make a hell of a lot more sense than these supposedly goody too hooved creatures fleeing for god knows how many years and then when a few take the drink you get whole cities worth of Draenai that want to go fel.

The Sargie would have a precedence towards it as it was what they originally used to do and would have a in lore reason for falling instead of, lel i want the power gimme.

>> No.45973933

>>45973597
I really wish that femWorgen looked more monstrous instead of being fur bait

>> No.45974039

>>45973933
They were, originally

They had these rather nice looking monster-ish models that looked far more in-line with the male models

Then furries kicked up a shit-fest about how ugly they were and Blizzard changed them to the retarded furbait models we have now

>> No.45974045

>>45973907
>A large amount of the story from Cata onwards feels like it was designed to infuriate, rather than be enjoyable
like people keep saying "the Alliance is always right, but the Horde always wins, that way everyone loses but Kosak"

>> No.45974046

>>45973731
Why should i see that? It has been stated that the old and weak high elves died bit the young could handle the withdrawal and simply meditated to relieve it

>> No.45974185

>>45973707
Pretty sure that was retconned into Only elementals were on azeroth before titans came.
At this point i just want everyone to die and from the rubbles of a smoldering world you see trolls dust themselves off and go right back to usual troll life

>> No.45974284

>>45973607
No its just like a drug addiction, nothing more.
Farstriders were relatively unaffected since they rely on magic less and more on martial.

>> No.45974343
File: 62 KB, 720x720, fish.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45974343

>>45974185
It may or may not have been the original wording was vague on that
>Along their journey they happened upon a small world that its inhabitants would later name Azeroth. As the Titans made their way across the primordial landscape, they encountered a number of hostile elemental beings. These elementals, who worshipped a race of unfathomably evil beings known only as the Old Gods, vowed to drive the Titans back and keep their world inviolate from the invaders' metallic touch.
I don't see anything that says trolls couldn't have existed.

>> No.45974411
File: 23 KB, 364x328, Illidan.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45974411

How powerful are Illidan's eyes?

I mean, they are gift directly from Sargeras. They must be some serious shit.

>> No.45974502

>>45973499
>I think it means contradictions go with what ever came first and you fill in plot holes with logical shit.
Well, sometimes there wasn't really anything in the first place, but what was added later made no sense with what little we did know.

>> No.45974636

>>45973926
The Sargerai make perfect sense as far as I'm concerned. They're tired of running and their Prophet proved to be unreliable.

Now, my opinion for the Draenei is quite simple. Eredar and Draenei cannot be the same race without essentially erasing the original Draenei. I don't mind there being Light-worshiping Eredar out there but I don't like the Draenei being descended from them.

>> No.45974708

>>45974343
I think it was a dev retcon.
>>45974284
I Knowles but farstriders are usually very healthy elves and blizz released an article that was a world of Warcraft encyclopedia on elves that stated that the magical withdrawal killed old and weak high elves

>> No.45974737
File: 269 KB, 1286x1140, oldnewposes.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45974737

>>45974039
Actually, their original models looked more like furbait, but they looked like a playable, sentient race rather than the hurrdurr beasts we got going on now, which combine a permasnarl with some ugly teeth, googly eyes, and giant boobs.

Here's a pic of the alpha models with the beta models (which are very similar to the live models). Tell me which ones you like more.

>> No.45974826

>>45974737
I hate all of them pretty equally

They all have stupid hair and stand too upright. I'd rather they just be leaner versions of the male worgen

>> No.45974831
File: 184 KB, 860x571, scaryworgen2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45974831

>>45974737
Oh, and they also had actual expressions rather than just opening and closing their mouths.
i.e. a female worgen only bared her teeth and furrowed her brows during combat or exclamations, not snarling 100% of the time

>> No.45974908
File: 827 KB, 1624x879, ford focus.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45974908

>>45974502
I... I can't even. I totally understand the feels but, want examples. Cuz there are so many great examples of WoW breaking cannon or doing stupid shit to make PvP happen.

Ate you taking about
>Magically Dark Irons are now perfectly friendly w/alliance
>Draenei crash land, look just like sytars, immediately on Alliance
>Goblins a historic neutral race horde only
>Bloodelves wiped out to 1% of population by undead, have huge numbers in Outland and repopulate 1/2 silvermoon

I can think of more, yah your right. That does need to be fixed... at least some of it.

>>45974708
Fuk dem dev retcons. Lets make our own warcraft with blackjack and hookers.

(Pic only kinda related)

>> No.45974967

>>45974737

worgens are furry-bait and should have never been made

sorry but furries kind of ruined this game

>> No.45974984

>>45974908
Blood elves didn't repopulate half of silvermoon, have you been to silvermoon? It's mostly empty, and empty on purpose

>> No.45975063

>>45974967
Only kind of, it was ruined by other things as well

Also, worgen aren't even as bad as pandaren

>> No.45975113

>>45974636
I suppose, but you are wanting to make the two become different races? Then that removes the whole point of their being a cult of Light out there when the big crash happened.

That being said, what are the original Draenei exactly?

>> No.45975177
File: 316 KB, 670x487, fucko.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45975177

>>45975063
Pandaren are the least played race on WoW. They're not as big a plague as some people seem to think.

Also
>western fantasy
>complaining about anthropomorphic animals
Go play LotR Online if you can't deal with furries, because they're in everything.

>> No.45975303
File: 94 KB, 836x900, 1328182846793.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45975303

>>45975177
>>45975063
>>45974967

A.L.T.N.C.G.

At Least They're Not Cat Girls

>> No.45975338

>>45975177
Hear hear.

>> No.45975408

>>45974636
>>45973926

I say add another possible story while staying in the spirit of it. Honestly i liked my WC3 ugly draenei

>> No.45975444

>>45975303
I don't really see why that's worse

>> No.45975519

Btw Nazgrim Will be one of the four horsemen probably

>> No.45975550 [SPOILER] 
File: 367 KB, 1194x801, 1457843172274.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45975550

>>45975519


Confirmed. Nazgrim and Thoras Trollbane are two of the four.

>> No.45975554

>>45975408
Well could we have it set up that Draenei are the light gurus that fled from their Eredar cousins, then the Broken used to be something simlair to Draenei while the legion comes by and corrupts them into the broken we see now?

>> No.45975577

>>45975113
>That being said, what are the original Draenei exactly?
The ones from Warcraft 3. They shouldn't have anything to do with the Eredar.
>>45974908
Oh, I'm just talking about some minor trivia in CDEV answers that were probably written by interns.

>> No.45975600

>>45975519
>>45975550
>tfw Kel'thuzad comes back to bro it up with Bolvar because he just loves being undead and doesn't really care who the Lich King is

>> No.45975604

>>45975408
So which ones end up on Azeroth? Light eredar or draenei?

>> No.45975729

>>45975604
That's the problem with unretconning shit. How far back do you intend to go and how far are you willing to let the story diverge? Those retcons are a large part of how the story has gone.

>> No.45975839

>>45975550
>>45975600
Oh well I like Nazgrim, his only real flaw was that he too loyal

>> No.45976267

>trolls adapt to their environment
>elves adapt to the magic they use
Any other examples like this?

Not just from Warcraft.

>> No.45976359

>>45975729
>>45975604
>>45975577
See that's the reason why I don't like the whole splitting them up thing. Too much tracking of different bits that may or may not even show up later.

That's why I wanted to have them be the same race, but they had ups and downs in their civilization. Starts out evil, gets their shit pushed in and the few that had practiced the cult of light were allowed to live. They flourish for a bit, then after Sargi goes dark he comes back to recruit. Velen flees with the Naaru who had been the ones to found that cult of light thing so long ago as I think that book about the meeting between Velen and the Naaru had went along the lines of the Naaru saying they had helped and met with the Draenai a long time ago that they had forgotten them.

At that point they flee into the spaceship powered by the Naaru, but since the shit was too advance for the Draenai they only learned how to do the basic stuff, like making toast, going to bed and other things of that route.

Later when they crash they have to make due with what they had and started to use their own building methods as far as I know the Naaru went into a coma to preserve their energy and not go dark themselves. Hence the simple and crude structures they built in warcraft 3.

Anymore questions or concerns?

>> No.45976528

>>45976267
Earthen were supposed to adapt to the type of rock they lived in I think

>> No.45976890

>>45970215
>Thrall isn't going emo in Legion because of how he killed Garrosh, it's because Garrosh was right- he guided him onto that bloodsoaked path and did very poorly to deter him from it. He spoke of the honor and glory of Grommash Hellscream, he spoke of old heroes and true orcish ways. Maybe the blood of Hellscream is just too strong. Either way, Thrall blames himself for all the bloodshed and division that Garrosh caused.

No, actually it's because of how he killed Garrosh. The Elements have stopped talking to him since the duel because he behaved dishonourably. Whether we agree or not, in universe there are apparently objective rules to these things and Thrall broke them.

>> No.45977139

>>45976890

Its so bullshit. The elemental lords of planetary bodies should be separate and distinct with their own policies and mores. He shouldn't have been able to turn Garrosh into fried frog in the first place, and the fact that the elements of Draenor gave him almighty power was tacit approval of his actions.

For his fucking hammer - a weapon which has been nigh useless since before the end of WC3 - to taddletale on him to Azeroth's elemental lords who then inform Thrall that he is now banned from shamanism because he was an inglorious faggot for killing an inglorious faggot is plain fucking stupid. And why would you want to own a moody hammer in the first place?

>> No.45977159

>>45960943
Ysera.

Ysarne sounds like Ysanne Isard the Rogue Squadron antagonist.

>>45961007
Brann mentions that they vanished, possibly driven underground during the Twilight Hammer Ragnaros assault on Hyjal.
>>45961025
No, the Dancing Trolls were from the Shaterspear tribe and they were jungle troll outcasts similar to the Darkspear, Garrosh installed a group of brutal puppet leaders that forced their tribe into a short and very nasty torture-filled war with the Nightelves.

Dark Trolls were cut from Cata for time reasons.

>>45967911
It's still a stupid decision. They could have easily protected the world alongside us.

>> No.45977231

>>45977139
It does make far more sense that Thrall has lost power due to his own self-doubt and guilt. Rather than some outside force judging him unworthy

>> No.45977262

>>45977159
Brann exposition is best exposition

>> No.45977334

>>45968410
>Onde of reasons for drop in subs was his generic evil, mad something dragon compared to much more interesting and tragic lich king.
Not really, I think a lot of people were unhappy with story changes, class changes, and at end of it all an absolutely fucking awful final raid, deathwing was also just not used well.

>>45969721
No, there are different KINDS of Mak'Gora. There's the formalized "One weapon, No armor, Final Destination Fox only." duel between Garrosh and Cairne.

>>45976890
It's never once stated WHY he lost them, just that since he killed Garrosh he's been far less powerful. (But not entirely powerless, he does help in the fight to reclaim the doomhammer after he's disarmed and it falls into Deepholm by... I guess blasting the corrupt earthspikes the boss summons so they don't cover the whole arena? I'm not in the Alpha so I am only guessing at the mechanics for the fight from videos on youtube.

>>45977262
I was almost willing to sub to that short lived Warcraft Magazine just for the Brann articles.

THe one where the most abstract of the Wild Gods Anveena or whatever gets asked if she created the Grell and just gives a cheeky "Maybe" made me smile.

>> No.45977394

>>45977139
>For his fucking hammer - a weapon which has been nigh useless since before the end of WC3 - to taddletale on him to Azeroth's elemental lords who then inform Thrall that he is now banned from shamanism because he was an inglorious faggot for killing an inglorious faggot is plain fucking stupid. And why would you want to own a moody hammer in the first place?

He should fish the WoD Doomhammer out from the ocean and switch to that to make Doomhammer Prime jealous. After seeing him having fun again with a newer, younger hammer, the old bitch will be begging to have him back.

>> No.45977397

>>45962209
>>45962496

Night Elves never expanded outside their forests (otherwise they would have regular contact with the Tauren). The invasion of Silithus was a WoW retcon - and a really stupid one. Similarly, nobody could penetrate the forests because they had the whole Ewok strategy going on.

>> No.45977459
File: 663 KB, 1400x864, 1457575075795.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45977459

>>45974411
All they do is let him see magically since he's blind otherwise. Oh, and they glow. Seems pretty shit-tier for Sargeras' eyes.

>> No.45977474

>>45977459

Don't they give him Predator vision to all demonic entities?

>> No.45977495

>>45977459
>>45977474
in Legion demon hunters get spectral sight that lets them see all invisible and stealthed creatures. Presumably Illidan has the same

>> No.45977563

Were the non-Illidan demon hunters in WCIII non-canon? It seems like using demon magic is a gigantic fucking taboo to the lesser elves, so why is it implied that there are other demon hunters?

>> No.45977565
File: 90 KB, 476x476, 1452836528404.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45977565

>>45977495
>lets them see all invisible and stealthed creatures
Even in PvP? Especially in PvP?

>> No.45977649

>>45977474
I remember it saying that in WC3, yeah. Iirc it implied that he could ONLY see demonic/magic entities and really was blind otherwise, but practically he seems to have no issues seeing, so I just assume that part got forgotten about.

>> No.45977864

god damn cronicle ruins the lore parts i like

>> No.45978200
File: 555 KB, 1920x1080, 484489.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45978200

>>45977565
Yes.

Rogues getting BTFO and incredibly analpained about it. The best part?
It has unlimited duration. It's just a toggled ability with a 5 second cooldown, last I heard.

It's fucking glorious.

>>45977563
Yes. Some of them end up becoming NPCs in Burning Crusade and Legion.

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Feronas_Sindweller

>> No.45978285

>>45978200
Demon hunters do sort of feel like replacement rogues in a lot of ways. More so than death knights were replacement warriors, especially since warriors got the most fun passive, titans grip, in that expansion

>> No.45978389

>>45978200
the demon hunters in BC weren't from WC3, they were Kael'thas' blood elves being trained by Illidan to be new demon hunters

>> No.45978396

>>45978200
Complete stealth has always been the worst mmorpg mechanic so fuck rogues

>> No.45978415

>>45977474
More than that in Illidan's case. He can literally see all sorts of magic and the patterns of it, even the really subtle sort.

>> No.45978444
File: 168 KB, 375x375, 1395096961733.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45978444

>>45978200
>unlimited duration
Fuck yes. That more than makes up for the removal of the human stealth detector racial.

>> No.45978450

>>45977563
That was already implied in the manual

But apparently Illidan trained a bunch of them and not all of them followed him around.
There was one in Azsahra/blasted land and one in felwood.

>> No.45978629

>>45978200
I wonder if they can farm the Unseen at raven hill for twink items.

I hated the removal of greater see invisibility.

Though it sucks that ONLY demonhunters will have it now.

>> No.45978786
File: 1.23 MB, 1920x1440, goddess_warchief.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45978786

Who /horde/ here??

Are you already saluting your new mistress?? Or are you another filthy traitor?!

>> No.45978819

>>45978786
I'm /horde/, been /horde/ since vanilla

Fuck sylvanas, she's been insane since Cataclysm and needs to be offed so the forsaken can have good leadership

>> No.45978832

>>45978786
I'd join her. But only because at this rate she'll kill everyone else before they even try to fight back.

>> No.45978839

>>45978786
I for one welcome our new batshit banshee overlord

In all seriousness though, is there any actual evidence to the official-ness of Sylvanas being warchief? The only proof I've seen is a wiki article

>> No.45978989
File: 105 KB, 400x600, gallywix.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45978989

>>45978786

I'd rather see a Gallywix led Horde. During the cata opening they made him a real cunt but the short stories turned him into a pretty damn cunning leader.

Of course having his best friend as one of the main characters helped that a bit.

>> No.45978993

>>45978786
>blizz makes attractive art of a fictional character
>"uuhhh, you like dead chicks or something? haha weirdo"
>implying finding anything that isnt an actual human attractive isn't weird
sylvanas haters need to try harder

>> No.45979054

>>45978989
>heya pal! Warchief Gallywix here!
I like it

>> No.45979089

>>45979054

>replaces the warchiefs fortress with his pleasure palace

>> No.45979097
File: 16 KB, 480x360, 1409414935896.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45979097

>>45978285

>play warrior in vanilla and TBC
>become Death Knight for Wrath, including temporarily deleting my old character to keep my original name
>Death knight loses its power quickly and becomes very meh

I'm a bit of an rp fag in WoW but it feels poetic for me to miss that life and consider what I could've been if I had stayed a warrior.

>> No.45979106

>>45978993
I'd fuck sylvanas but god damn she is a cunt muffin

>> No.45979117

>>45978989

>MAKE THE HORDE GREAT AGAIN
>GALLYWIX 2016

>> No.45979146

>>45979054
>>45979089

I'd imagine Goblin capitalists would have an easy time arranging global trade deals with Alliance entrepreneurs, create new jobs, suppress dissent with massive numbers of adventurer mercenaries, and create the first great soda franchise in the galaxy - the Moon-Cola.

>> No.45979151

>>45979117

I'd vote for them

>> No.45979163

>>45979089
>stops war by making "donations" to important nobles in Stormwind
>every time the Horde accidentally pisses off a bunch of natives in [new expansion continent] you just pay them off or put a head of the mount of their choice in their bed

>> No.45979188

>>45979146

I always thought Goblins were the best race to take care of domestic issues in the Horde. Infrastructure, transport, etc.

>> No.45979205

>>45978989
>>45979054
>>45979089
Fuck that, Sassy Hardwrench/Boss Mida would be a better Goblin leader.

They just didn't want to let us kill Gallywix AND imprison Garrosh in the same raid, which is why they made up Blackfuse on the spot and wrote the Blank Scroll to retcon Gally into less of a dick.

>>45979097
I would have just paid for two namechanges instead of deleting.

>> No.45979238

>>45979188
they were already a major part of the Horde as outside contractors, Cataclysm just solidified it

>> No.45979281

>>45979117
>What's his platform?
>He's not a roid-raging psychopath like the last guy.

>> No.45979316

>>45970433
Dun Morogh was good. Dwarf stuff went downhill substantially after that. But the underwater zone from Cata, a lot of the MoP zones, and about half the WoD ones had great mini-arcs.

>> No.45979360
File: 46 KB, 603x759, Dark Iron Dwarf leathers and Handaxe.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45979360

>>45979316
I liked Loch Modan and Wetlands personally.

>> No.45979435
File: 19 KB, 500x367, carlos.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45979435

>>45979316
>Dwarf stuff went downhill

>> No.45979549

>>45979205
>Fuck that, Sassy Hardwrench/Boss Mida would be a better Goblin leader.

Fuck off. Sassy is nothing but a yes girl and Boss Mida is a fan insert with no personality or history.

Gallywix proved in his leader story and the blank scroll that he's a fucking damn good Trade Prince. The player character was the only one who could match him and we'll never be Trade Prince.

>> No.45979556

>>45978839
There's alpha leak image of Sylvanas with Warchief title.

Same for Anduin as king of stormwind.

>> No.45979603

>>45979549
Sassy led you around as much as you led her around.

And Boss Mida could just be a cover identity Sassy uses.

>>45979556
It ain't even a leak.

That Alpha shit isn't Confidential, they gave keys and such to a lot of the big name youtubers like Nobbel.

>> No.45979618

>>45979603
>Sassy led you around as much as you led her around.

That still doesnt make her a match for Gallywix. He'd wreck her shit.

>> No.45979724
File: 240 KB, 1162x850, deus vult.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45979724

>>45979556
>image of Sylvanas with Warchief title
Please let this be the prelude to the game's first cross-faction raid. I want to see that bitch taken down by the combined might of an entire world that is fed up with undead bullshit. Undercity Siege 2, baby. Let's do this.

>> No.45979787

>>45979724

They'll never let you kill her, they already killed most of their interesting characters so they have to hold onto the ones they have left.

RIP Kael'thas

>> No.45979814

>>45979787
>so they have to hold onto the ones they have left
Good thing Sylvanas stopped being interesting ages ago.

>> No.45979843

>>45979814

No you misunderstand me. They killed off most of the interesting characters now they need to hold onto who they have left, whether they're interesting or not.

>> No.45980159
File: 1.11 MB, 1633x2282, sanguinius.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45980159

Who is the sanguinius of warcraft?

>> No.45980160

>yfw sylvanas gets killed, but then comes back as the new queen of the shadowlands

>> No.45980198

>>45980159
I'd say probably Anduin.

>> No.45980271

>>45980159
>Died a hero
>Mostly uncorrupted despite the shit going on around him
>Beloved by all, even in death
>Slain by a traitor prince he once considered family
Uther, probably.

>> No.45980471
File: 114 KB, 1024x1384, 1457582525430.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45980471

Looking to run a campaign for my friends. Any preferred system? One friend suggested 5e, just cause the guys he likes to listen to are playing it. I bought the humble bundle for Pathfinder and need to get reading those.

Most people seem pretty positive over all for both, but I don't know. We played FATE before and that could definitely work well for less class conversion/limits and more play your character.

The idea is quick adventures, probably chunks of dungeons or quests. Just sit down and run a small module, The hunt for King Wrynn around Theramore, The assault on the Dark portal, pretty much any of the Caverns of Time dungeons, etc.

>> No.45980633

>>45980471
There are many jokes about 4e being WoW edition

4e can actually handle WoW very well though, the multitude of powers for martial characters works well with what warriors can accomplish in the setting

>> No.45980737

>>45980271
uther died like a bitch though.
and he never had the "believe in me that believes in you" moment.

>> No.45980783

>>45980633
We've actually played 4th a bit. They didn't seem keen too it (3.5 was what we've played the most), but then again, they really just likes to mini-roleplay and shoves peoples shit in.

>> No.45980862

>>45980783
Well, if you're going to use pathfinder, just use the WoW rpg instead

It uses OGL and mostly just shifts a bunch of names around without really changing anything from 3.5, but it does have its own rules for all the races

>> No.45980902

>>45980737
>uther died like a bitch though.
Not really. I recall Arthas getting his ass kicked, looking at Uther as if he was the embodiment of the lights vengeance, and honestly thinking he was going to die. He ended up winning of course, but it was still a cool moment for Uther.

>> No.45981065

>>45980902
is this from the golden books?

>> No.45981120
File: 334 KB, 510x770, ArthasCover.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45981120

>>45981065
Yes.

>> No.45981142

>>45981120
Great book. Lot's of cool little thing sI didn't know.

Here's hoping the beginning of the second Warcraft movie is Lothar and Varian meeting Terenas and Arthas

>> No.45981157

>>45981142

>great book
>Christie Golden

but what the hell do I know, I think all of the books are awful

>> No.45981188

>>45981157
Some of Golden's books (Lord of the CFLans and Arthas at least, Rise of the Horde was okayish) are pretty decent.

And considering only The Last Guardian is outright better and Tides of War is about on par she's still one of the best writers Warcraft has for novel-length stories (A *LOT* of short stories and mini-comics are better than pretty much all the novels bar Last Guardian)

>> No.45981191

>>45981142
>>45981120
she changed minor things that grind my gear.
Like the wc3 manual stated that jaina and arthas go their separate ways because she wants to study and he wants to make babbies.
Golden does the opposite.

Also>>45981157

>> No.45981229

>>45981157
Well I picked up Arthas and Stormrage the same day. I started with Stormrage, got through the prologue, then shotgunned Arthas. I still haven't picked up Stormrage again.

I know some people don't really like her, but the book is pretty damn good. It added a lot more to him that made his whole life as prince to student to unwilling servant into the lich king make sense.When he's getting his anointed as a paladin, and the light isn't manifesting for him?

It also helped show the jealousy he had and his constant comparing of himself to others. He envied Varian for his combat prowess early on, then that he had a family established. All while his sister was set to be married off and his father hadn't really pushed him toward any marriage, even though Jaina was constantly around and Arthas planned a whole trip to Dalaran to visit.

>> No.45981286
File: 214 KB, 1014x787, Satyr Bluebeard warcraft___vylokx_by_genzoman-d4ra911.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45981286

>>45981229
Stormrage and Wolfheart are *REALLY* abysmal, even for Knaakbooks.

I could even stomach Night of the Dragon, his next-worst work, but I didn't even get through a page of Stormrage.

>> No.45981348

>>45981286
The only good thing that came from Stormrage was Tyrande fending off a satyr army by herself. And I only liked that because it's the only useful thing she's done in a long time.

>> No.45981430

>>45977397
your proof for that night elves could never have gone to silithus eight thousand years ago is because they didn't bother talking to some nomadic cowmen?

>> No.45981599

>>45981286
Are there any good warcraft novels?

>> No.45981680
File: 352 KB, 1439x811, 1446873871906.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45981680

>>45980271

>> No.45981692

>>45981599
No

>> No.45981770

>>45981692
thought not

Hoped there would be one or two, but that would be a long shot considering who writes those things

>> No.45982556

>>45981680
Varian got old, holy shit.

>> No.45982624

>>45981599
The Last Guardian is legitimately good, Golden's books are pretty decent too.

>>45977397
>>45981430
Nighte Elves in Feralas. They live on the Islands mostly and didn't travel between Ashenvale and Feralas overland, so they never had to interact with the Tauren and did have troops near Silithus/
>>45982556
The models in that cinematic were a little too wrinkly/pudgy/gaunt at times.

>> No.45982640
File: 663 KB, 704x553, Pads_of_the_Dread_Wolf_TCG.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45982640

Damn these are my favorite boots, though making the bottoms of a pair of rogue boots metal was an error in the TCG art

>> No.45982663

I think the best thing to come out of Warcraft post-Cata was the Mists of Pandaria cinematic.

>> No.45982689

>>45982663
Oh god that was orgasmically good.

I did like a lot of Pandaria for the laid back exploration feeling it gave us.

>> No.45982698

>>45973926
>>45974636
Personally I'd keep the basic concept of the post-TBC lore since at this point those Draenei have become pretty well-established (they're an actual playable race in WoW, while the original Draenei had a pretty minor role in the strategy games), making removing them entirely feel a bit off.
Basically, what I'd do would be to alter the lore a little to go somethign like this:
>Sargeras shows up on Draenei/Eredar/Whatever we call them homeworld and gets them to join his Legion in exchange for power
>Prophet Velen gets a vision from the Naaru (assuming those are still kept in the lore) that this would be a shitty idea, and gathers other like-minded Draenei/Eredari/Whatever and flee in a hurry using the "space ship" Naaru provided, with Sargeras and the remainder of their race trying to stop them from escaping
>"Space ship" teleports to Draenor and crashes, becoming the big crystal mountain in Nagrand. Surviving Draenei set off to rebuild their society. Meanwhile those of them that didn't listen to Velen and took up Sargeras's offer become the demonic Eredari we know and love

Essentially Draenei retain most of the same fluff, but came to Draenor immediately after fleeing their homeworld, rather than being chased by the Legion across the universe, and don't have advanced crystal space-tech (the "space ship" was created by the Naaru so the Draenei never knew how to build one, and was pretty badly damaged in the crash anyway. Thus they're relatively low-tech as described in pre-TBC lore.

Still leaves the Sargeras corruption retcon, but to be honest I've always preferred the more vaque "he spent so long fighting evil that he came to see universe being inherently flawed" over the "he got corrupted by these two specific races of demons", so having the Eredari be corrupted by Sargeras rather than the other way around isn't really a huge problem for me.

>> No.45982713

>>45982698

I still dont get why autismos are so mad about a tiny retcon that changed a single line in the WC3 when the rest of the lore is crashing and burning all around them.There were like half a dozen bigger retcons in BC alone.

>> No.45982733

>>45982713
True, there are bigger things that need fixing.

Like mag'har existing

>> No.45982752

>>45974908
>Goblins a historic neutral race horde only
Most Goblins are still neutral. Only one of their cartels joined the Horde (much like only one particular Troll tribe is part of the Horde and the others are hostile to both factions). Besides, there's been a pretty large amount of Horde-aligned Goblins since Vanilla (Orgrimmar has always had some Goblin NPCs, and in WotLK the Horde base in Borean Tundra has Goblins wearing Horde soldiers uniforms among the Orcs and other Horde race NPCs).

>> No.45982858

>>45982752
>only one particular Troll tribe is part of the Horde and the others are hostile to both factions
>Revantusk
>Shatterspear

>> No.45982894

>>45982713
I think it was largely because it wasn't a concious decision by Blizzard, but them forgetting about it and not bothering to check their own previously written lore about the Eredar when making the Draenei. To a lot of people that showed that they were lazy and didn't really give a damn.

Of course, since then there's been far bigger and dumber retcons, so it seems very quaint now.

>> No.45982915

>>45982858
True about the Revantusk, but I like to pretend Cata's treatment of the Dancing Troll tribe is noncanon.

They were a bunch of cool people I always dreamed of having the skill to reach, but when they finally open the area up they fill it with torturing sadists propped up by Garrosh?

>> No.45982923

>>45982858
OK, so there's also one small tribe of Forest Trolls living in a single village in the ass-end of the Hinterlands, and the "Dancing Troll Village" Trolls that became Horde-aligned in Cataclysm.
Most Horde Trolls, including all PC ones, are still Darkspear, and most other Jungle Trolls (let alone the other kinds of Trolls) are still hostile to Horde and Alliance.

>> No.45983026

>>45982923
The Revantusk are actually on the upswing as of Cata, but they are unfortunately stuck under the Banshee Queen's sphere of influence which can be dangerous for a fringe faction of the Horde.

>> No.45983120
File: 114 KB, 640x480, 23916-warcraft-ii-battle-net-edition-windows-screenshot-rescuing.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45983120

Always wanted to play as a forest troll. They are my favorite since Warcraft 2 where Axe Throwers were my favorite unit.

>> No.45983178

>>45976359
What you said is exactly why the page is currently written the way it is. If you start undoing the beginning it will change the end, by a lot. I will be sure to add the rest to the http://alternate-azeroth-ptoject.wikia.com/wiki/Draenei_Retcon page.

>> No.45983386

the alternate azeroth wiki said that older lore is better so I'm providing some links

http://www.scribd.com/doc/3914674/Warcraft-Orcs-Humans-Manual#scribd

http://ftp.blizzard.com/pub/misc/Warcraft%202%20Battlenet%20edition.PDF

http://www.abandonia.com/files/extras/30998_Warcraft_II_-_Beyond_the_Dark_Portal_-_Manual.pdf

these are manuals for the origional games.they have a bit of lore in them.

https://cableplugger.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/world-of-warcraft-2007-tides-of-darkness-aaron-rosenberg.pdf

this is a novelisation of the second game.

>> No.45983398

>>45983386
http://public.ds003.info/wcbooks/novels/

here are several online warcraft novels

>> No.45983481

>>45983386
>>45983398
This is great I will being pouring over the game books immediately.

>> No.45983535

>>45983120
Ugh yes. And it's completely undoable within WoW.
Closest you get is being a hunter which isn't the same at all.

Sorry. I love most things Warcraft, but that specifically is one of my pet-peeves.

>> No.45983540

>>45982689
I legitimately think that the only people that disliked Mists were the edgy teenaged faglords that complained about "hurr Koongfoo Pandurr" and "0/10 not gritty and edgy enough this is warcraft not peacecraft".

It had its problems, of course:
>Factions gated behind reputation with other factions
>Profession recipes and raid gear gated behind those gated factions
>5.3 was only interesting for the first month or so
>Siege of Orgrimmar (keeping with what now is Blizzard's tradition of dragging the final patch for too damn long) lasted for fourteen bloody months

And, at least from the top of my head, I can't remember anything else blatantly wrong. WoD, on the other hand, managed to fuck up everything but art/music (which have always been a Blizzard forte, so it's somewhat of an hors concours point), raiding and leveling (for the first two or three times).

>> No.45983560
File: 74 KB, 736x766, lorthemar.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45983560

>>45978786
>zombie elf hitler is the Warchief
>not the actual best candidate

JUST

WAR CRIME

MY

HORDE

UP

>> No.45983591
File: 93 KB, 469x653, Zul'jinWallpaperCrop1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45983591

>horde ruled by elves
It didn't have to be dis way
Why didcha listen, mon
WHAT WOULD ORGRIM SAY
I SPIT ON YA HO'DE

>> No.45983606

>>45983540
MoP was great. Story, quests, zones, atmosphere.... I like the journey, endgame is usually shit, just farming same stuff over and over again until you get more stuff to farm different stuff.

>> No.45983702

>>45983591
I like Zul'jin, but I also like Lor'Themar

>> No.45983712

>>45983702
I was talking about Sylvanas.

>> No.45983734

>>45983712
Oh

Right, fuck Sylvanas, she was cool back in vanilla and in WC3, but now she's the worst character in WoW.

>> No.45983770

>>45983712
does she even count as an elf anymore

>> No.45983786
File: 1.27 MB, 1280x797, godfret.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45983786

>>45983734
I never liked her tbqh.
Lord Ben Garrison is much more appealing desu.

>> No.45984297
File: 201 KB, 800x500, f80f15e4a3c30702267a548d3f24b35b555b6ed8.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45984297

>>45983540
A lot of WoD's zones had good stories. It was just that it went to shit by the time you capped.
>Nagrand, the Garrosh bait and switch.
>Tanaan, the mindless grind with zero-effort "garrison quests", like Reshad not being able to figure shit out after the first fucking clue.
Arak is my favorite zone of the expansion.

I still maintain that the Garrosh'ar quest could have been at least salvageable if they didn't pull the last minute switch. Instead of telling the player to go kill Garrosh, then having Thrall step in, have the quest be to escort big green.

Thrall's powerful, but can't take on an army by himself. He dukes it out with Garrosh while the player and their army punches through all the mooks.

It still wouldn't be GOOD, but it at least wouldn't be shit.

>> No.45984384 [SPOILER] 
File: 36 KB, 500x273, 1457880965674.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45984384

>>45980159
You know exactly who.

Srsly tho I think it's either Uther like >>45980271 said or Anduin Lothar.

>> No.45984490
File: 27 KB, 400x300, 2878769188_small_1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45984490

>>45973361
I know I'm going to repeat something stated thousands of times over, but cartoony/illustrated look doesn't necessarily mean it cannot have a serious tone. Sure, there's a point where it just comes across as indecisive design and really just seems out of touch, but I believe there's a fine line where grimdark and cartoon-look can create wonderfully nightmarish and grimdark scenarios.

pic related, though it doesn't come across as well in that particular illustration.

>> No.45984740

>>45983591
>Vol'jin literally allied himself with 2 elves to overthrow the true warchief of the Horde
worst fucking troll ever

>> No.45984773

>>45984740
Jungle trolls never fought elves.

They did fight orcs though

>> No.45984815

>>45984490
All of the nightmare inducing parasitic plant abd fungus growth was pretty fucking unnerving and it worked fine with the cartoon style.

>> No.45985132

>>45984740
There's a reason the Darkspear tribe was almost wiped out, mon.

>> No.45985283

>>45985132
reminds me of the quest in vanilla where a darkspear troll in stranglethorn asks you to travel to the hinterlands, collect twenty forest troll heads, impale them on a pike and leave it in one of their villages as "punishment" for "betraying Thrall" after the second war.

>> No.45985284
File: 29 KB, 364x330, check your privilege.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45985284

>>45984773
>Jungle trolls never fought elves.
>They did fight orcs though

I don't doubt but I don't remember when.

Also we all need to stop referring to these races as a single group. It breeds ignorant race based politics.

There are many spear chucking jungle trolls that gladly kill each other. Honestly in the jungle trolls mind I imagine they have more hate for other tribes then other races.

>> No.45985421

>>45985284
just like the darkspears then? of course the darkspear is so far the only tribe that has actually killed members of every type of troll there is. no wonder the dark trolls went into hiding.

>> No.45985469

>>45978786
Can't possibly be worse than Vol'jin.

>> No.45985486

>>45982713
>>45982698
Eh I suppose that would be fine, be less of a head cannon fill in than the other idea

>>45982713
>>45982733
OK so you don't like the brown orcs still being around then? Is that due to overexposure to the fel turning alll the orcs green even the ones that weren't practising the fel magic?

>> No.45985735

>>45979724
Fuck off Alliance shit. You already got to raid one Horde city.

>> No.45985806

>>45982663
>>45982689

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jon4GV1u3uM

>> No.45985856

>>45982698
>>45982713
>>45985486
Meh I do want to cover all the retcons just 1 at a time. Try to build community support, get better idea by talking to idiots on here (I'm supprised but some people here have good ideas) and make a resource for all DMs week wana run a warcraft campaign to use.

On that not what should be the next major retcon to handle?

>> No.45985950

>>45985856
Works for me, as for the next recon to note, would having Illidan be dead be athing after the frozen throne or should we leave it as is?

I don't know that many recons to be honest, but I'm willing to work through them if you tell me where to start with it.

>> No.45985962
File: 37 KB, 546x512, 1454782042535.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
45985962

>>45985735
>implying the only people who hate the Bitch Queen are Alliance
>Implying the orcs and tauren aren't appalled at Sylvanas' crimes against nature
>Implying the trolls aren't pissed about Vol'jin losing the title
>Implying the Forsaken old guard from the vanilla days aren't horrified that their boss is becoming the very monster they sought to destroy in the first place

Garrosh was an asshole but even he drew the line at necromancy.

>> No.45986108

>>45985950
I might be alone in my opinion however, I find the story mechanic madness to be weak and tropy unless the madness was made be another larger darker force.

Why did Illidan die
>Illidan "went mad" and betrayed the draenei (oh whom he was their savior)
>Kael "went mad" cuz illidan refused to fex his people of the addiction (in WC3 illidan tells him there is no way around the addiction)
>insert random hord of adventures (not to be confused with random hord adventures)
>no BE support
>adventures + akama = dead illidan
Very not a well don't story tropes and plot holes, removes one of the largest lore players cuz expansion.

Your right the question is how to move forward?

>> No.45986146

>>45985856

The draenei retcon took away literally nothing, not a single thing and added shit tons of content and backstory. There is literally zero reason for changing anything.

If you want to tackle shit

>where is warsong island
>illidan took 7 vials from the well of eternity, used 3 or 4, kael and vashj had one each, wheres the remainder?
>whats with the arakkoa summoning an old god
>where the tempest keep came from, holy shit that thing is an interstellar mobile fortress, its satellites are city sized and contain factories and laboratories, who built them and why the naaru arent in a hurry to get them back
>whats with the fucking maghar, why are they are so bellingerent for no reason, I thought orcs are dindus
>the black citadel from TFT got split into hellfire citadel and black temple and absolutely NO ONE brings it up
>illidan died in TFT yet lives here
>his forces also got wiped out in northrend but they are back in outland
>the entire backstory of the nether dragon creeps from TFT are retconned in
>the "red world" mushroom hell draenor completley retconned in looks


I'm sure I could come up with more but you get the idea.

>> No.45986167

>>45986108
>Akama willingly joins Illidan knowing that he consorts with demons
>5 years later gets mad that he's consorting with demons and has random people (including warlocks) kill him

>> No.45986232

>>45986146
>>45986108
Cool well that opens up somethings i also found this that might be of note to help work things out as well...
http://www.winnow.veeshanvault.org/files/noncomic/World%20of%20Warcraft%202nd%20Edition.pdf

>> No.45986241

>>45985469
You talking shit about Vol'jin?

>> No.45986319

>>45986146
Illidan used 1 vial at the final battle of WoTA
3 vial to create the new well of eternity
2 vial to Vashj and kael
So he prob kept the last one for himself.

>> No.45986404

>>45986146
I don't know where warding island would be at, is it something like the clan home for that tribe if so I imagine it's somewhere close to durotar and or azshura simple beacuse of their constant skirmishes between them and the night elves.

>> No.45986454

>>45986146
The vials I'm not sure on what we could even do with that as we have no idea on what illidan wants to do with it maybe the legion expansion will give some insight on that

Arakkoa could be trying to summon that set fella that was the God of evil from WoD that had such a huge presence in their religion not sure or it could be related to the whole snafu that went down between the hero king of the birds and his fall

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