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Pathfinder General /pfg/

If you are asking for build advice, please mention which third-party books are allowed. If you do not say anything, we will assume DSP/SoP is allowed.

Unified /pfg/ link repository:
http://pastebin.com/HwxEjiKW (embed)

Old thread

How long until your next game?

>> No.43909111

we're actually over in >>43907367 sorry
tomorrow evening.

>> No.43910238

What ever happened to that one shot that was advertised on Saturday?

>> No.43911171

Hmm. The existing multiclass rules don't work very well at all, Except for the stuff that stacks from multiple classes.

>> No.43912416

This thread'll probably get some use soon

>> No.43912618

>ITT: that class idea you have that you want to play

>> No.43912676

I really basically want to play a warrior from golden sun but that doesn't really exist in d&d

>> No.43912712

A "caster" STR martial class that can cast from a list of "Deeds", which are like spells.

The deeds and "Acts" (which are their cantrips) are very damage focused, but all of them are melee touch attacks or empower the caster.

The general idea is that they're based off of the crazy shit mythological warroirs like Beowulf and Hercules could do through muscle alone.

>> No.43912715

>Multiclassing between initiators is a step down in general power (need to meet prerequisites for your maneuvers before you dip, only four levels of dip viable before losing initiator levels and delaying the progression) but a massive step up in versatility (get a bunch of lower-level boosts, counters, and strikes for all occasions, as well as the fairly good recovery mechanisms which are abilities in their own right, and even more low-level stances, many of which are powerful in the right situations).

PoW multiclassing is about breadth over depth.

>> No.43912717

TFW I get home in time for new thread to start.

How's tricks, /pfg/?

>> No.43912730

... I did not mean to greentext that. Fuck.

>> No.43912821

This is probably a stupid question but can you make a prestige class your first class?

>> No.43912850


>> No.43912869


>> No.43912878

Prestige classes have entry requirements which must be met. Now, it's possible that a PrC ends up being the first /class level/ you have, because you already have racial hit dice, but this is rare enough to not be assumed or even considered unless specifically invoked.

Either way, to take a first level in a prestige class you must meet all of its requirements.

>> No.43912953

As a half-elf, you can have it count-as, I think.

>> No.43913001

Hmm. And I guess low level maneuvers are now useful to high level initiators than low level spells are useful to high level mages.

>> No.43913007

Prestige classes may never be favored class

>> No.43913028

They really are. Counters and boosts especially, since many of the best counters stay relevant thanks to native scaling ("make a skill check to block an attack" never stops being good, nor does "move as a swift action"), and if you multiclass around, you can trade overall power (high-level maneuvers) for always having a large arsenal of useful abilities.

>> No.43913037

basically patapon

>> No.43913132

A lot of low level spells stay relevant throughout a career. Longstrider, Barkskin, Resist energy, ect.

>> No.43913147

but that had like thirteen classes

>> No.43913192

Not shitty "War Mage" class. Archetypes/Options for specializing in Int,Charisma,Wisdom. Uses blasty shit all day, doesn't really cast spells.

I'm working on a Mystic archetype that's kinda like that, but I'm debating making it it's own class, I've halted work because finals. I might post a draft a bit latter.

>> No.43913239

A class like Warlock from 3.5 , a guy who goes like, limited spellcasting? Whats that?

>> No.43913266


Warlock was shit as blasting, is the issue.

>> No.43913320

Isn't that quite doable with SOP?

>> No.43913344

Real goddamn fun, though.

>> No.43913347

And the drummer, so like a tactician/bard hybrid.

>> No.43913353


Oh, definitely. I enjoy the warlock greatly, especially if playing the Wolverine Claws version.

>> No.43913366

I want to make a spell that quickly and accurately appraises the value of treasure. Considering that it would only eliminate the need to waste time counting coins and bypass (or give a bonus on) appraise checks for determining the value of objects, should it be a 1st or 2nd level spell?

I haven't worked out all the details yet but at the moment I'm thinking it would be a spell with a 1 minute casting time and a rather cheap material focus (probably something like a magnifying glass or jeweler's loupe worth 50 GP) which determines the exact number of individual kinds of coins as well as makes an appraisal check using your caster level as the bonus on all the treasure within a circle you draw before casting the spell.

>> No.43913397

It was pretty much the only class that fit an idea i had for a character, though her being overpowered by design is maybe boring.

>> No.43913400

Here it is, very much a work in progress and probably still very shit.

>> No.43913515

Boy, when you get to be my age, you gotta do double-anal or no-one'll hire ya.

>> No.43913570

>that class idea you have that you want to play

At this point it could be just about anything, I just want an opportunity to play.

The few games that fit my schedule have shitty rules or character creation regulations, and the handful that are both in my schedule and have competent rules are filled up or die after a session.

Why do I even play this game anyway.

>> No.43913588


It sounds like you don't play this game though

>> No.43913700

Tell us your character concepts.

>> No.43913829

So I'd like to play a Changeling for my next character's race. A few of us are doing a "Sons of Katie Elder"/"Four Brothers" thing for our background, and I figured I'd go with the sister "brother" of the group. Can't decide on a class, though.

Was thinking of doing a Shapeshifter Ranger, focusing on the Changelings natural claws they start with and using that with the Nat Attack path with the shapeshifting Ranger. Undead Lord is also something I've considered, as I've always wanted to play one. I figure some kind of Oracle could work as well. I still feel like there's some other class or classes that I'm forgetting that might be even better. Gm doesn't allow any 3rd party stuff. Just all the basic Pathfinder books.

Thoughts and suggestions, guys? Would really love some input on this gal.

>> No.43913847

>a kyton tiefling kyton bloodrager who is obsessed with finding his kyton mother and earning a place in kyton society

>> No.43913871


But I do anon, I do.

>> No.43913894

Grandmother. Remember, Tieflings are quarter or less fiendish.

>> No.43913925

Something decently effective that uses guns. Opportunities are sparse, needless to say.

>> No.43913945

An Alchemist who wants to poison Demon Lords before forcibly converting them to a good alignment.

>> No.43913996

>kyton mother
Tieflings don't work like that

>> No.43914302

So /pfg/, have a premise for a new game; horror and loss underpin the world, set in the modern day, things like ghosts and ghouls and their ilk exist and torture, kill or drive insane members of the general public.
The players work for an organization dedicated to keeping up the ruse of denial, lest they wish to spread untold levels of panic.
Good so far?
Modern guns don't work at all on these creatures but magic does.
The players also hold down a day job and/or are "dead"

>> No.43914315

>Modern guns don't work at all on these creatures but magic does.
I hate you

>> No.43914327

>Modern guns don't work on these creatures

Why not.

>> No.43914394

Ah shit, posted in dead thread. Trying again here

>> No.43914399

Cooking based Bard.

It would replace it's Bardic Performance with the ability to prepare special meals that grant bonuses based on what ingredients you use and how you prepare it. Like for example, Bard wakes up and prepares some Chicken Stew. Since chickens are a semi flying creature, all ranged attacks made that day would have a +1 to hit and +1 damage. Some Beef Sandwiches would give a +2 to fortitude saves. If you use rare or expensive material the better the bonus. Like Fairy Dragon meat would give a +1 luck bonus to all rolls made that day.

>> No.43914414

See the reply given to you in that thread.

>> No.43914476

Loaded with rock salt and other condiments it will.
Magic weapons especially, they get spell resistance

Gun's'll just stun the creatures

>> No.43914494

Do swords just stun the creatures to?

Do you just hate martials?

>> No.43914496

You missed the operative question.


>> No.43914533

No, I saw it. I don't see how that helps any

>> No.43914582

It's how these creatures managed to survive to the present day, and kinda semi-based on x's shit about creatures not even registering shots from a firearm or just getting angrier.

Magic swords will slice through these creatures no problem and martials should generally be pretty strong against them

>> No.43914592

So why wouldn't magic bullets hurt them.

>> No.43914632

Alright, so, explain why, precisely, this works. Explain through what effect they prevent this damage. Is it some kind of magical aura that protects against normal harm but can't deal with magical strikes? Is it a psychic aura that makes it so that people can't attack them without the surety of a magical attack? Is it just really tough skin?

we're asking for an explanation here.

>> No.43914636

Makes sense. Rock salt sawed-off to stun them, and finish 'em off with a magic axe or something sounds like a fun combo

>> No.43914642

They should a la Hellboy

>> No.43914692

Cool ideas, magical aura for some creatures, psychic auras for others and yeah, generally tough skin represented by DR and the like.
The ones with magical and psychic auras also use the same to "hide" and "deceive" the general public

Sweet as

>> No.43914717

Might I suggest just going with fairly high DR/Magic then? It accomplished much the same thing in many instances, and it means that a tank shell to the face is still something a werewolf has to be worried about.

>> No.43914733

As long as you allow people to still use magical guns/bullets if you want then its fine

They're even easy to stat out if you want

>> No.43914741

A lazy, dispassionate Skinwalker Bloodrager who adventures for two reasons - one, because his mother will literally kill him if he doesn't become a hero of some renown in five years' time, and two, his Bloodrages are the only time he feels anything besides disgust at his own abominable genome and lack of real accomplishments.

>> No.43914762

Or possibly regeneration that gets shut off by magic? Bullets will slow the creature down, but it won't kill it without magical help.

>> No.43914779

Excellent, thanks heaps

Also planning on using the mechanics in the Occult Bestiary and monsters in the later bestiaries so the players don't metagame like shit

>> No.43914795

Can't they just be really fucking tough,you know so guns don't immediately make them dead?

>> No.43914806

Yeah, will definitely don't you worry, it's just the regular bullets

>> No.43914841

Cool idea, thanks heaps
Will incorporate

>> No.43914879

Nice, thanks heaps
Will incorporate as well

>> No.43914898

Thanks heaps all :D

>> No.43914977

So, a question that's recently become relevant to my life: how does /pfg/ feel running a quest is and isn't similar to running a Pathfinder campaign? A more narrative system's campaign?

>> No.43915043


>> No.43915061


Say I'm playing a character that has negative energy affinity. He's using a weapon with the Vicious quality on it. Now, Vicious means it does 2d6 extra damage to the person that gets hit, but does 1d6 damage in return. One of the ingredients in making a Vicious weapon is Eveneration, which does negative energy damage. Now, because my character has negative energy affinity, would he in fact be healed by that 1d6 from the Vicious property of the weapon?

>> No.43915081

No, that's stupid. As written it's untyped damage specifically so you can't cheese your way around it.

>> No.43915086

quest threads, and the threads discussing them, are a hideous malignance that should have been tucked away into its own board years ago.

>> No.43915087

Vicious is untyped.

>> No.43915098

Why are half-fiend and half-celestial humanoids rare to the point of nonexistence?
Where do all the aasimars and tieflings come from?

>> No.43915138

Not really similar at all. Running a quest is more like writing fiction, except you give the "players" some meaningless choices along the way to make them feel like they're actually involved.

>> No.43915141

Corruption/blessing of fetuses, mostly.

Also, you underestimate people's ability to be prolific, and planetouched stay planetouched through multiple generations. Half-outsiders are just a one generation deal.

>> No.43915148

A quest is way more narrative, decision-driven and open than a campaign, ANYTHING could happen.

>> No.43915225

Quests are cancer and should have been banned as soon as tgchan became a thing.

>> No.43915233

Any other people able to help with this? The non-combat assigned side would be greatly appreciated, since it looks like this game might involve a dose of things other than combat, and alongside that I'm the only party member with a really good perception check

>> No.43915327

I would play in that

>> No.43915412

Didn't quests kinda, um, originate on /tg/?

Then they spread out, only to be forced back here with "the rest of the D&D" because other boards didn't want them?

Wouldn't that make us the cancer from which the tumor grew?

>> No.43915415

Quests are basically like the fiction you write for your iconics, but combined with the american electoral college (and the people who own it)

In quests you pretend that there's some kind of choice, and get a bunch of naive optimists to 'vote' on it, and then proceed to continue the story EXACTLY as you'd planned with whatever action/decision they "voted" on as the direct result/continuence/reaction-to whatever it was they voted.

They are the pinnacle of "shut up, I'm telling a story" GMing.

>> No.43915421


Still looking for some advice here.

>> No.43915466

>"as soon as tgchan became a thing"
implies they should've been excised from here and sent over there rather than allowed to metastasize.

Anon, before you talk to older relatives, I suggest you learn that when someone or something suffers from a tumor, THEY, THEMSELVES, are not the cancer, they are AFFLICTED with cancer.

Don't go calling your great-aunt the cancer if you want to avoid a very uncomfortable moment.

>> No.43915469

Perhaps guns and modern technology (cell phone cameras, night vision) doesn't work on monsters since they have a magical aura that prevents new inventions from being as effective. Kind of like how magic causes technology to go haywire in some fiction, this extends to mechanical processes like vehicles and guns. They carry the Old World with them and it protects them from the New. It'll take a few decades or hundred years for our level of technology to affect them.

A modern day firearm, fully automatic with armor piercing bullets will just bounce off while a muzzle loaded musket will cause it some injury while a crossbow could be a kill shot. It gives an excuse why they have existed for so long and it makes carrying around a sword or crossbow a necessity.

Magic bullets or blessed ammo might be able to get around this limitation, but most people would prefer to have a holy sword than some bullets blessed by a priest that wouldn't be as effective in the long run.

>> No.43915472

Mostly because I'm guessing few of us if any have heard of your inspiration or know it well enough in any way to help you.

>> No.43915475

I love this.

Gareth, pls

>> No.43915483

>Good so far?

Are there Japanese-American Kitsune and Huldra in Michigan?

>> No.43915489

Basically, what >>43915415 said.
Yes, some quests can actually manage to go beyond and provide some actual twists and plot-changes based on the people taking a part in it, but most "Quest Masters" are just telling a story and the choices aren't really important at all. There's rarely a sense of actually changing how the story goes based on the collective's decisions, and sometimes QMs even outright ignore the majority because they "voted for a joke option" or whatever.

It's honestly not that great of a system unless you have an EXTREMELY competent QM, or someone who doesn't take things too seriously and is willing to go along with open-ended stupidity.

Now, why has it become recently-relevant to you, Gareth?

>> No.43915526

>Huldra in Michigan
God, I hope so.
>you will never meet your waifu on South Manitou Island

>> No.43915555

>Why are half-fiend and half-celestial humanoids rare to the point of nonexistence?

It's hard to get fucked by a demon and live to talk about it.

It's also hard to convince a Ghaele to be your girlfriend and expect her to stick around for the time it takes for a child to appear.

Furthermore, I've got the feeling celestial/fiendish pregnancies are conscious decisions; that Ghaele might get fucked, but she decides if it "sticks", much like the fiend decides the same.

>> No.43915665


I'm more looking for classes that work well with a Changeling than the movies that we're basing the backgrounds of our characters. I plan on focusing on the Changeling starting with 2 claw attacks, so she'd be fighting that way primarily. Was looking for advice on classes and feats that would compliment that way of fighting, like Improved Natural Attack and such.

>> No.43915673

The bestiary entry on solars mentions that they can't get pregnant, so they can only go into a male form and father a child. Obviously doesn't work the same for every outsider, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was fairly common.

>> No.43915682 [SPOILER] 

Because I'm running one, anon, and I got curious as to the perspective on comparisons. Thread's live.

>> No.43915725


>Huldra with adorable Minnesotan accents
>Selkie in Maine
>New York apartments populated by entire colonies of Domovoi

>> No.43915745

>shitting up /tg/ with more quest threads

>> No.43915774


Gareth, we trusted you.

Why would you do this to us?

>> No.43915795

Honestly that's always a cheap copout. There's no reason this wouldn't affect "lesser" technologies too. Why would things work for steel blades and crossbow bolts?

While INITIAL, EARLY encounters could result in weapons that don't work, there would almost immediately be, as a result, a mad fucking rush of *SCIENCE*. No researcher, engineer or technician worth their salt would fail to immediately JUMP into this sudden paradigm shift.

We're looking at anywhere from weeks to months before someone's using drones to draw summoning circles, and while much weaker than a standard Disintegrator Rifle's Burst or Charge modes, even your Iphone 7-Mg has a magic missile function just in case.

Even the standard mage would likely cum all over himself at the chance to get a snazzy new mana-battery set he can just swap out like magazines instead of charging his staff the oldfashioned way.

Why? Because magic has its own rules, and there's people who live to turn those rules into fun stuff. That "ambiant energy" magical entities manipulate would get shown, devices that CAN detect and manipulate it would get built (this doesn't necessarily mean "of course there's electronic sensors that work here", but rather that even crystal balls would get refined and hooked up for greater utility)

If magic is out there, technology will build off that as well. Not because it is lesser or better, but because "Technology" is nothing more or less than the direct application of ANYTHING we realize or discover. 'Modern' stuff just applies methods of knowledge-transmission and production less obscure than "only this one old geezer knows, and all of his secrets die with him". The archiving's a little better.

Magic would not lead to a return to dark ages, nor would it lead (except as a fashion deal with young civvies) to teenagers running around with katanas somehow more useful than fully armed forces.

Magic would lead to an entire new generation of tech, weapons and gadgets.

>> No.43915797

I know you're /tg/'s pet dev and all, but just fucking No, man. Quest threads are a goddamn cancer.

>> No.43915823

I don't care, do what you want.

>> No.43915856


Because I was curious. And because of long association with Hunter Command & Cain Labs. But mostly, honestly, because I have too much urge to write and somehow not enough outlets, so I figured, fuck it, worst thing that can possibly happen is it crashes and burns, best thing that happens is I get to make something fun and engaging with reader participation.

The die is already cast. The first thread has already been ran. The second is now live. Like it or not I'm in for it now.

>> No.43915864

Okay. There is nothing objectively wrong with running a quest. There is, however, a lot wrong with running one on /tg/. Quests are not a traditional game. Quests have nothing to do with traditional games. The kind of people who read quests keep shitting up /tg/ with their bullshit in unrelated threads. /tg/ is a very bad place to run a quest. I strongly suggest you go over here instead.


It was started by people from /tg/ years ago. There's a lot of furries, but it's not 100% furry and it's actually specifically for quests.

>> No.43915895

See >>43915864 if you haven't already. There are alternatives to /tg/ if you want to run quests. They're also fine with text quests, and the posting speed is generally slower if you prefer more time to think of things. There's also this if you'd like.

http://tgchan.org/kusaba/questdis/res/15880.html A thread of advice for quest authors.

>> No.43915929

So I was getting into some discussions with people about Bloodborne weapons, and making them using the weapon design rules. Thoughts? Or is it too much effort for not enough gain?

>> No.43915935

Run a campaign, man.

>> No.43915960

Run an actual campaign

>> No.43915967

Aren't they just weapons with alternative forms? Like a scythe that can become a spear or a gun or something?

>> No.43915989

Yeah, from what I have heard. There's a wheel one too, but I do 't think it transforms

>> No.43916027

Probably not too hard to make, then. Just make a new "trick" quality that lets the weapon swap forms and poach preexisting weapon stats for each form. Do they do anything special other than transform?

>> No.43916060

...Gareth, man, are you bored or something? Do you want to join a game?

>> No.43916151


> Retail scheduling issues lol
> Only player base I currently know is a quarter of a tank of gas away
> They also have retail scheduling lol
> I can't commit to live-time online because SEE ABOVE
> Can't do voice because NO MIC
> Most PbPs that threaten to have an intersting premise are either defiled by assholes, die, or both.

So I ain't got shit. Last game I tried to join originated here and died before it could live.

>> No.43916179

Gareth, what do you think of
>>43915895 ?

>> No.43916207

It's the designer's curse man. Neither of us will get games.

>> No.43916211

I'm not sure. Not the same anon who brought it up, I haven't even played the game. But from what I've been told, that weapon trick feature would do just fine.

>> No.43916223

What if the group in question has a fairly flexibile schedule for when they play, is online, text-based, and can try to accomodate a shifting schedule?

See above.

>> No.43916332

Do this please

>> No.43916552

Mics are literally 5$. I'm sure someone here would just paypal you the money for it.

>> No.43916559

Depends on the story and rules. I'm not playing in a 15 point buy 1st party only game.

>> No.43916570

Hey, I've got a game. And have suffered from Gareth's curse of scheduling before.

>> No.43916617

What? Why would you ever allow higher than 10pb? 10pb, core book only, can't play anything with casters, even SLAs or optional like rogue talents.

>> No.43916679

102 point buy, all books allowed, full CR free template stacking, no race restrictions

>> No.43916701

Jesus Christ man.

>> No.43916721

0 pb, CRB only, human only, NPC classes for the first 5 levels. Muh gritty realism.

>> No.43916730

Oh, I thought we were negotiating. It's important to start from a strong position.

>> No.43916767

Are you planning on running this game on here?

>> No.43916774

I'm not the anon you were responding to.

>> No.43916811

I have no way of knowing that. You gave no indication that was the case.

>> No.43916815

I'm the GM of one of the games he meant, assuming the Skype chat is accurate. Might as well post and see if you're interested. Some guys went down the Mobhad Leigh and got stuck in Sekamina, the second layer of the Darklands. 25 point buy, level 4, no t1 classes, using most 3.p+DSP and other 3pp available at request. Would rather no occult or akashic classes because I'm not familiar with them yet.

I also run a mythic game for the last few years but iirc both of you hate that shit, and frankly at this point so do I.

>> No.43916833

You know, I like the general anonymity of 4chan. but sometimes it can be real fucking annoying.

>> No.43916939

I use 104 PB, just so that my players always feel wasteful for leaving 2 points unspent.

>> No.43916984

You're inhuman.

>> No.43916985

That's hilarious.

>> No.43917025

>How long until your next game?
next saturday

Does anyone have a picture of a ghoran?

>> No.43917034

Okay Gareth I love you, and I love what you do. But quest content doesn't really relate to this thread of us unless your story is going to adhere to the game mechanics for some reason. I mean /tg/ is particular because you could argue anything to be /tg/ by other discussing how game mechanics don't adhere to real life or discussing how to adapt something to a game system.
Of course banning discussion of firearms to /k/ would suck, especially since the majority of the people who don't care about pen and paper system wouldn't want discussions of games in their discussions of how to be tacticool. This gives us a great deal of variety. However, it also made us a "default" board for stories. Awesome story time threads that you might look forward to happening weekly? They were all declared to go here from now on.
So you see some stupid shit on other boards. RWBY, a western production, got a manga adaption. Huge shitfests on whether or not discussion should remain on /co/. Or getting pokemon kicked out of /v/ because /vp/ was created. Story quests have made /tg/ into a containment board of sorts for these things.
There were quests that I followed years ago scattered across the boards. They aren't inherently bad. But there are people who hate them being forced exclusively on this board, when the cultures of other boards were the reason some got popular to begin with. And quest threads aren't pfg material to discuss, not even really tangential related. A bunch of us will follow you there, and you can get feedback in those threads. Otherwise people will attack you, who has a tripcode, for every rule violation that normally gets ignored.

>> No.43917040

Playing tomorrow night, DMing the night after.

>> No.43917084

Type "sylvari" into basically any image search and you get a shitload of usable images. They won't all fit Ghorans, but cribbing GW2's shit is probably the quickest way to get images of plant people.

>> No.43917095

I appreciae the warning, anon. And I won't discuss the matter further. Not even "unless asked".

And thank you for the history lesson. I'm kinda missing that context a lot.

>> No.43917096

Next Sunday so almost a week

>> No.43917120

See >>43915895 it may help you.

>> No.43917172

Gotchu covered

>> No.43917192

For Gareth, Elric, and any other Dreamscarred Press people present:

1. If the official stance on the Trickshot Soul trait is that it is acceptable as a trait because "a +1 trait bonus to all of your attack rolls is merely very good and not an auto-pick," then does that mean a trait that gives all initiators a +1 trait bonus to their own attack rolls would also be fine? Can we expect such a trait in the future?

2. Is there really no word on Collective Defenses at all? "The party must stay within line of sight" is not that great a weakness for a 4th-level peri-blooded tactician who grants the party a +6 insight bonus to AC for four rounds, seven times per day as a swift action, without expending any of the power points from their full manifesting progression.

3. We are not looking at 25,000 gp though. We are looking at several hundreds of thousands of gp, perhaps even the millions. A 12th-level shaper psion with an orange prism ioun stone and the Overchannel feat (just those two, nothing else) can repeatedly manifest 15-point Genesis day after day after day to create a fabulous wonderland (equivalent of regular Create Demiplane) of arbitrary size a level *before* a cleric or a wizard could create a less impressive and much more expensive imitation using Create Lesser Demiplane. If the answer to my previous inquiry regarding timing of ML buffs works a certain way, this psion need only be 11th-level with the Believer's Boon feat in the Psionics domain.

If the point of psionics is to provide a more balanced version of regular spellcasting, it is not doing a good job if a trick such as this is lingering around, and Dreamscarred Press's Genesis does not even have the excuse of "legacy material" that Psychic Reformation has.

>> No.43917217

For Gareth and Elric, if you missed it, one of the games that guy from earlier was talking about is >>43916815

>> No.43917246

Thanks, that plants a lot sexier than I thought it would be. Was truly imagining something along the lines of myconid but with less shroom head and more flower face

>> No.43917248

I actually played a game with 77 point buy once, as well as that armor as DR rule and, most ridiculous of all, the presence of bolt action rifles (treated as simple weapons no less!). I made a necromancer and taught them that there is more to life than damage dealing.

>> No.43917264

I'd tend to her garden, if you know what I mean. I think it would be a cute date to work on it together and then watch the flowers grow over the course of the months.

The belly on this one always reminds me of a watermelon viewed from the side.

>> No.43917266

Sexy plants you say?

>> No.43917289

Maybe her plant type is a watermelon, they have the delicious trait after all

>> No.43917290

25 PB, 3pp allowed, base races only.

>> No.43917313


And another count on Trickshot Soul:

Why is it acceptable for the *psychic armory* to have access to a trait that grants a +1 trait bonus to all attack rolls, but unacceptable for a melee, base soulknife to have its own version that grants a +1 trait bonus to its own attack rolls?

>> No.43917370

20 pt buy, DSP and SoP, bloodforge races.

>> No.43917374

I really wanna play a Shroud Marksman sniper with some source of sneak attack, either gestalt or otherwise.

I just can't see myself in a game anytime soon that would allow that.

>> No.43917394

Lemme make this short and sweet; we'll take things into consideration, but right now psionics is not in active errata, is not close to being in active errata, and is in fact a bit of a bitch to errata in our current position. Things are not stable right now. OA gutted our psionics sales, and guess what was funding all those passion projects people are excited about?

Right now, UltPsi content is what it is. We'll note it in the FAQ file and move on, but for the love of fucking Christ, stop repeating it over and over. Alright? We get it. You care about these subjects. We'll let you know when, and if, we get the chance to revisit them.

Coo'? Coo'. Good talk.

>> No.43917429

I've been invited to join a game with a new DM who's never DM'ed anything before, that already has a barbarian, sorceror, bard, druid and rogue. I'd be the only one with any PF experience in the group, if I joined, though a couple others have played other versions.

What class would you guys pick to complement the group? I'm aware it's already a bit large.

>> No.43917441

the +1 to attack rolls is secondary to the Trick Shot power, which is just plain hilarious in its ability to affect the narrative.

>> No.43917449

Bard or Inquisitor. But those are usually my go to classes for 1st party anyway.

>> No.43917458

Already a bard in the group. Inquisitor, then?

>> No.43917476

>OA gutted sales

How? It's a shitty as fuck book filled with awful options and it isn't anywhere even close to Psionics. Don't you guys and Paizo have some sort of mutual non-fuckery agreement towards eachothers work or something?

>> No.43917477

Didn't see there was already a bard. Go with inquisitor.


>> No.43917478

Bard may or may not have overlap with other bard if it's low-level. Make sure to use a difference performance because you aren't limited to just having the effects of one performance.

>> No.43917485

Aren't you supposed to go higher instead of lower?

>> No.43917502

Incanter can do a good job of being blasty, as a full SOP caster with a buttload of talents and feats, and also has the option of picking your own damn mental stat to cast with.

>> No.43917505

Might as well try one last time. Since you've expressed curiosity as to the game, can I get a solid answer as to whether or not you're interested in this game? >>43916815

Paizo has better publicity and they're not exactly great people if you haven't noticed.

>> No.43917531

Big party there. Alchemist? You can bro it up in melee with the Barbarian or chill in back with the casters and throw bombs while the Barbarian and Rogue chug your spells.

>> No.43917540

Nothing formal but we're polite, yes. But despite Paizo saying repeatedly that OA is not psionics, and going so far as to endorse our psionics in the convention in which they announced OA, that's not how people percieve it. We had a lot of people straight abandon ship for "Paizo psionics" despite protests /from Paizo/ that OA is not psionics. Additionally, OA hits a lot of the same flavor notes with better exposure, leading to people not buying psionics content because they feel the niche is already filled by the 1pp, in addition to the standard bias against 1pp, the assumption that Paizo "fixed" psionics when we "didn't", and all manner of other shit.

TL;DR doesn't matter, still happened.

>> No.43917548

I was working on a Lumen Sage sort of class for a little while, but I haven't had the motivation or inspiration to finish it beyond the fluff and initial mechanics.

>> No.43917564

Well, yes, of course a company ran by degenerate mentally ill people aren't exactly great. That's what happens when you put people with literal mental problems in positions of power, ignore the issues associated with it, and then give them little gold stars for being so progressive and accomplishing so much for a trans person.

>> No.43917570

Against 3pp not 1pp jesus I need coffee.

>> No.43917572

I went lower on PB and higher on races. Because I value race options more than 5 points of PB.

I'm going to pass, although I appreciate the offer. I probably don't have the time for a game on top of Real Life stuff. Thank you though.

>> No.43917577

Being this rustled, why?

>> No.43917601

That's fair, I hope real life goes well for you and you're able to play something soon, even if it's not my game.

>> No.43917629

if pf had a standard bias against 1pp we'd actually be ok :^)

>> No.43917631

I've got my RL game, but every other week is the most I could fit it in. Life's not bad, just busy.

>> No.43917641

Combination of being at the mid-point between the caffeine and alcohol, not having eaten yet, generalized irritation, anger-by-association, thinking this was already handled, knowledge that Genesis was in fact legacy content (I remember this because unlike arcane Genesis, psionic Genesis in 3.5 was Astral in nature) and the fact that honestly, I work retail, I'm entering the holidays, my life has been hell.

...My tone still may have been out of line. I apologize.

>> No.43917654

You know now I'm just going to go buy all the psiconics books.

>> No.43917657

Yeah, but now It'd feel weird because I'd have to up the ante from there.

>> No.43917680

Ah, that's good to hear.

While I'm at it, I don't suppose you'd be interested in an online game?

>> No.43917696

How good is Spheres of Power for "all player characters are caster"?

>> No.43917697

Go look at

>> No.43917704

The one that I've been asking Elric about at the behest of a friend, that is. This one. >>43916815

>> No.43917739

While I appreciate the offer, almost none of the proper nouns here mean anything to me. And...honestly, I'm reluctant to 3.p, both because it runs counter to my as-little-effort-as-possible method of character building and because I need more practice in PF itself to familiarize myself further with the system.

Just might be. But, again, I can only really commit to PbP.

>> No.43917746

Quick question to DSP: I was disappointed to see that Greater Unarmed Strike does not effectively give you monk unarmed damage, which hurts way more for a Large character, who's doing shortsword damage the earliest he gets it. Now, I may be wrong and misremembering monk damage, but does it unbalance Steelfist Commando or Aurora Soul if they just use the monk's damage progression?

>> No.43917778

>as-little-effort-as-possible method of character building
What exactly is this method?

>> No.43917784

All 3.p really means is that it's Pathfinder with the occasional bit of 3.5 content allowed when Paizo or you lot haven't ported it over yet.

>> No.43917789

Nah, don't worry, keep well

Gotta be a better PR guy though

>> No.43917790

That would be me you're quoting the last two out of three times, to clarify. It's a Skype game about surviving in some fairly unfriendly aberration-filled underground lands. I appreciate the answer, hope you find something that suits your needs. ...although I have to admit I'm not sure how you're going to practice PF while avoiding playing it.

>> No.43917800


I apologize for being insistent on psionics.I will admit that I am biased regarding it since I had purchased Ultimate Psionics when it was first released.

Would you prefer feedback on Path of War: Expanded, Steelforge, and Arcforge?

I heard rumors that Riven Hourglass and Shattered Mirror were slated for revision. Is this true? I consider them the two most powerful disciplines in Path of War: Expanded due to the sheer potency of their effects (e.g. Riven Hourglass has swift action attacks and auto-staggers at 1st-level alone, Shattered Mirror can add another Close target to any other strike with a 3rd-level boost). Has anyone else harbored a similar sentiment?

I am still a tad doubtful towards the higher-level progression of the 6th-level initiators. I understand that the design direction dictates that they not have higher-level maneuvers, but their progression at the higher levels is still somewhat barren. They are a bit of a wasteland.

Has Ssalarn given mechs another revision yet? There has been feedback that they are much too powerful at lower levels given hardness and flight, and the dread (eclipse) arbitrarily has to give up *far* less than the psychic warrior (reactor knight) and, to a lesser extent, the tactician (squad leader).

How *do* temporary manifester level boosts work for powers with a manifesting time of more than one standard action work?


Unless you truly put a great deal of work into optimizing an SoP blaster, such a blaster will still be mediocre *even by SoP standards* and fall behind the usual battlefield control by way of Alteration, Creation, Mind, Time, and similar spheres, unless you use Destruction less to blast and more to control with Crystal Blast and Force Blast and similar blast types anyway.

The Destruction sphere does not quite work as advertised ("You can summon pure energy to strike down foes") unless you were looking to literally knock down foes with Force Blast and keep them down with Crystal Blast.

>> No.43917842

Sphere's blasting sucks dick, and honestly SoP seems like "great idea, really,really mediocre execution".

>> No.43917881

Facerolling the keyboard on a class that has a high optimization floor, like the initiators.

>> No.43917893

It makes it so that characters have a heavy amount of niche protection for one; a spellcaster that can conjure up fireballs and call lightning storms is very unlikely to also be any good at summoning monsters or raising the dead unless he actually invests in it.

>> No.43917928


Meiling is cute! CUTE!

>> No.43917990

This, pretty much. Get a concept, find a class that matches concept with high floor, pick options that sound cool for concept using high floor to protect me, move on with my life.

>> No.43918038


I have plenty of feedback waiting for Adam Meyers when he begins to post again.

I could very well write a several-page essay and criticism about Spheres of Power's very chassis (the Low/Mid/High Caster divide is good in concept but *terrible* in execution, and so is spherecaster multiclassing), how entire spheres are either absurdly quadratic (e.g. Conjuration, Weather) or thematically incoherent grab-bags of effects that should not even be spheres to begin with (e.g. Dark, Enhancement, Fate, Light, War), how save-or-lose (e.g. Alteration with Aquan Transformation vs. Fortitude, Creation with encasements vs. Reflex, Mind with many of its effects vs. Will) is still the most efficient method of fighting, how staffs are considerably overpowered by the system's internal standards, how the Paizo sphere archetypes are a rushed job that should be revamped, how the item pricing system is completely useless.

I am sure others can share similar feedback with Mr. Meyers.


I consider Spheres of Power to be *far* less internally balanced than Dreamscarred's psionics and akasha.

There are simply far, far too many balance concerns within it, and that is before someone trots out spheres like Conjuration or heavily-invested Weather. Even lesser-known spheres like Alteration can be brought into play with unintended tricks (e.g. Aquan Transformation) to do things that tier 3s simply should not be able to do on a regular basis at low levels.

>> No.43918261


Oh, Gareth.

Is the effects of the Crimson Countess version of the Harbringer Claiming subject to Damage Reduction? As it's damage is very low and going to get soaked completely by anything with level appropriate damage reduction.

>> No.43918273

You've seen as much of Ssalarn as we have.

The PoW: E discs have had a lot more active review and editing than the PoW 1 discs did. Those two are commonly held to be among the strongest and have had the closest eyes.

Expand re: 6th-level initiators.

PP cap is determined when you start manifesting the power.

>> No.43918315

Nope. The damage is untyped; even if it wasn't, technically (Su) abilities never suffer from DR. Which is stupid but WELCOME TO PATHFINDER HOW MAY I HELP YOU?

>> No.43918319


Most of the save-or-lose I have mentioned (e.g. Alteration Aquan Transformation vs. Fortitude, Creation encasings vs. Reflex, Mind vs. Will) requires spell points, but there are some that can be used at-will.

Take the Light sphere:
>As a standard action, you may cause an object or creature to glow for 1 minute per caster level, outlining it with light as a candle, which may be of any color you wish. This requires a touch attack or ranged touch attack. The object or creature becomes outlined with light, giving it a -20 penalty on Stealth checks and negating all bonuses usually bestowed by invisibility, blink effects, darkness, or similar effects.

Hardly unbalanced for a standard action that costs no SP. With another standard action, you can cause one of your glowing targets to shed bright light, lasting for as long as you concentrate, or, with a spell point, 1 minute per CL.

Some (light) talents augment this glow effect, effectively allowing you to spend a spell point to create a special kind of bright light. For example, Blinding Light lets you spend a spell point to create bright light that blinds everyone within a massive radius, simulating a Glitterdust-like effect.

However, there are outliers that do *not* demand a spell point to create bright light. For instance:
>Bound Light (light)
>You may create bright light that binds the glowing target inside a prison of light. The target is entangled and must pass a Fortitude save each round or be staggered for that round. In addition, the target must pass a magic skill check to use any form of dimensional travel, such as the Dimension Door spell or the teleport ability from the Warp sphere.

Thus, on top of the various save-or-lose options available to a spherecaster that cost spell points, a spherecaster can, at-will, hurl out ranged touch attacks that remove all Stealth and miss chances, automatically entangles, and forces a Fortitude save against staggering each round. For 1 minute per caster level.

>> No.43918325

Really? Shattered Mirror?

I don't get it. I presumed it was 2hufag's autism that made him believe it to be OP, but aside from being able to smooth out the action economy by sharing buffs with an ally or two, what makes it powerful? I know it has a couple gems, but you need that craft glasswork to be able to polish them.

>> No.43918343

>Ohio is Abbadon
>real life Ohio needed to be replaced with Abbadon so things could live there

>> No.43918393

It's not that it's OP, precisely. Most of Mirror is in a great spot and at this point fixes are little matters of wording or missed exploits (like Reflected Blade Style working on full-attack strikes, which...it...needs to not), but the thing about Mirror is that it scales to the optimization level of the campaign, and it scales /all the way to TO-complete/ if used properly and provided opportunity.

This is, in my opinion, an interesting thing and I'm intending on preserving it. But it does make the balance a bit of a bitch.

>> No.43918538


Perhaps debuffing is not your style though. Perhaps you would like to destroy enemies as a gish instead.

Aside from the obvious option of using Alteration to gain things light multiple arms, flight, and pounce (all of which will, sadly, cost spell points each time, unless you are a sphere druid whose Alterations on yourself last for 1 hour per caster level), the Light sphere can also accommodate you.

>Encompassing Light (light)
>You may create bright light that encompasses the glowing creature, allowing it to function as if it were larger than it is. The glowing creature deals damage and gains reach as if it were 1 size category larger than it is. This improves to 2 size categories at 10th caster level, and 3 size categories at 20th caster level.

Yes, for the low, low price of 0 spell points, you can cause your entire party to be treated one to three extra size categories larger for the purposes of damage and reach. (Your Zweihander Sentinel will appreciate this.) Remember that you can have as many glows active as you would like, and that they cost no spell points.

Bound Light and Encompassing Light are on the *exact same page* as this talent that costs 1 spell point, and remember that only one light talent can be applied to a glow at a time:
>Beacon of Hope (light)
>When you place a glow effect on a creature, you may choose to grant that creature a +1 morale bonus on saves against fear. This bonus increases by 1 for every 5 caster levels possessed.
>You may spend a spell point to create bright light that empowers those within it. All creatures within the area of bright light gain a +1 morale bonus on saves against fear, +1 per 5 caster levels.

Spheres of Power cannot maintain its internal balance even within a single page.

And that is a shame, because I sincerely do like Spheres of Power as a book and wish it could succeed.

>> No.43918551

I just wish it was more ranged-attack friendly. I know ranged attacks are already really potent but it's disappointing to be really interested in the fluff and design of the discipline as a Gunsmoke Mystic and then look into maybe even diving into the Tradition and then looking at the actual strikes and just not having good options

>> No.43918661

Well, "better war mage" isn't exactly limited to just blowing things up, and I'll agree that the destruction sphere lacks some luster.

However, using it in addition to time, death, etc. can lead to a very effective "kill the things" caster.

>> No.43918687

Has anyone noticed that the outsider type has increasing drifted in usage from what its name implies? An outsider is supposedly a creature from another plane of existence, but we see it now being used for "native outsiders" like planetouched, prana ghosts, kami, wakandagi and so forth.

Is it time for a rename?

>> No.43918823

Yeah, but the thing is when people say warmage they mean "guy who makes thing go boom real gud" They want nice flash elemental attacks. They want to burn their foes to crisp with fire and lightning , freeze them solid with ice, to pelt them with a myriad of stones, or dissolve their flesh with massive ball of acid.

Fuck that pussy ass, "save or die" nonsense.

>> No.43918838

I...am honestly not sure what to say. Like. I caught this post when you made it, and I've been trying to reply to it, because somehow 'I cannot express my gratitude enough' sounds hollow. So. Thanks, anon. Like I said, things have been rough, and some of that responsibility's mine to shoulder.

No idea, though gut check says 'they don't need it, maneuvers deal quite a bit of damage'. That said I'll kick this at the team real quick.

I do run a PF game, once a week if I can, but it's expensive to get to for me so a lot of times I gotta skip.

Sadly this is one of the weaknesses I built into it, along with Cursed Razor.

>> No.43918847

The name Outsider works fine, it implies something wholly different and alien to us.

Outsiders have no seperation between soul and body, they have never been creatures of "extraplanar" origin. Lots of non-Outsiders have always existed on other planes, like elemental versions of animals, various magical beasts, dragons and other things that AREN'T Outsiders in fact make up the majority of life in the outer planes.

Though we don't necessarily summon them (we get planar energy and shit) Celestial animals are more common in heaven than good outsiders.

>> No.43918865

Because anything exceptional or beyond the mundane must OBVIOUSLY be from another dimension or magical.

This is my biggest fucking problem with 90% of D&D monsters to be honest.

>> No.43918894

The thing with native outsiders, though is that they do have the normal separation between soul and body, hence you can still use Raise Dead on your tiefling party member. Which rather blurs distinction of what outsiders are supposed to be.

>> No.43918968

>Expand re: 6th-level initiators.

A 7th-level half-initiator finally receives 3rd-level maneuvers. The character has 7 manuevers known, 4 maneuvers readied, and 2 stances.
A 13th-level half-initiator finally receives 6th-level maneuvers. The character has 10 manuevers known, 5 maneuvers readied, and 3 stances.
Therefore, in the stretch from 7th level to 13th level, such a half-initiator gains +3 maneuvers known, +1 maneuver readied, +1 stance, and, most importantly, +3 levels of maneuvers.

This is reasonable compared to a warder, the Path of War 1 class with the least maneuvers:
A 7th-level warder finally receives 4th-level maneuvers. The character has 9 maneuvers known, 5 maneuvers readied, and 3 stances.
A 13th-level warder finally receives 7th-level maneuvers. The character has 12 maneuvers known, 7 maneuvers readied, and 5 stances.
Thus, in that stretch from 7th level to 13th level, the warder acquires +3 maneuvers known (same as the half-initiator), +2 maneuvers readied, +2 stances, and once again most importantly, +3 levels of maneuvers (same as the half-initiator).


Now, let us see what a 17th-level half-initiator has: 12 maneuvers known, 6 maneuvers readied, 4 stances, and 6th-level maneuvers.
From 13th level to 17th level, the half-initiator has gained +2 maneuvers known, +1 maneuver readied, +1 stance, and, damningly, +0 levels of maneuvers.

What about the warder? A 17th-level warder has 14 maneuvers known, 9 maneuvers readied, 6 stances, and 9th-level maneuvers.
This means that the warder has gained +2 maneuvers known (same as the half-initiator here), +2 maneuvers readied, +1 stance (also the same as the half-initiator)... and, most crucially, +2 levels of maneuvers.


The progression from 7th to 13th level is comparable between half-initiators and warders, so why does a half-initiator's progression suddenly become much worse in comparison in the stretch from 13th to 17th level?

You have addressed Mirror; what of Riven Hourglass?

>> No.43918984

Why are power points so much better than vancian casting.

>> No.43918987

Psyarm war soul with EF it is.

>> No.43919019

It's sensible, intuitive and you don't have to deal with
>Man, I don't have enough energy to cast magical missile. I better resort to Meteor Swarm.

>> No.43919022


I finally have something to say and be useful about here. Yay.

>Riven Hourglass
Riven Hourglass has recieved nerfs between the version in the Mystic PDF and the version that will be in the final release of Path of War Expanded. Among other things, its saveless effects got saves, some of its general damage is reduced, and some of its other things have been tweaked. Minute Hand has been nerfed a bit.

>Shattered Mirror
Has recieved some tweaks and a couple nerfs. That boost specifically has been nerfed to not allow copying full attack maneuvers, and a couple other maneuvers have been altered a bit. We think it's in a good place.

We've gotten a lot of feedback from the playtests on multiple forums, and while the documents in those threads are no longer living documents updated as we go, you can rest assured that /every/ discipline in Path of War Expanded has gone through final edits and tweaks to brought where we want them to be.

>Higher-level progression of 6th-level initiators
The current progression has been slightly altered to be nicer for stances (giving them at the levels stances show up until 6th level maneuvers, and upping their number of stances by one to allow for it). They are getting slightly more maneuvers at higher levels to help lessen the emptiness of later levels. PrCing out is always an option, but we want it to be an option because the initiator wants the PrC, not because the class stopped supporting their concept.

He's been busy; that's all I can say without infringing on his privacy He is aware of the feedback that's been given, though.

>Manifester level
When you start manifesting, as >>43918273 noted.

>> No.43919033

Because Vancian casting has only ever made sense for wizards and a few interpretations of cleric. Everything else makes more sense as a stamina system.

>> No.43919038

Bound Light got errata'd into requiring a Spell Point for use, so that's not quite accurate to call it at-will.

>> No.43919084



I laughed way, way too hard at that. Thank you.

>> No.43919117

Gareth, what's your opinion on the Piercing Thunder Issue? That is, that too many of its maneuvers are either weak, are just straight "the same maneuver but improved by 3 higher levels", or redundant with each other or various options; the biggest example being how the Style Feat, the Martial Tradition, feat, AND a level 1 stance all do the same basic effect of "one-hand a spear or polearm" with very little permutation between them.

>> No.43919143

It may have issues, but I will love Piercing Thunder forever, because I have long wanted to play some sort of spearfighter and reach weapons are just not all they're cracked up to be with normal classes.

>> No.43919175

Yeah, it's just troubling that it hangs out in the Gunsmoke's discipline list when they don't have the proper tools to use it

For what it's worth the Tradition is real cool, both me and one of my players are really intrigued by the possibilities of the Knight, especially in the context of the Pathfinder-in-Space game I've been planning.

>> No.43919181


This is reassuring to know about Riven Hourglass, Shattered Mirror, and 6th-level initiators.

What about Path of War: Expanded is *not* set in stone and *could* use feedback, then?


That is interesting to know. Retract my complaint regarding Bound Light, then.

My complaint regarding Encompassing Light (on the same page as Bound Light) still stands, since that is a size increase with none of the drawbacks for the entire party, at-will. If Adam Meyers is still viewing these threads, I hope he can see it.

>> No.43919183

I actually like that there's several options to get that basic effect, each with their own unique stuff. I see piercing thunder as the discipline you go to when you want to be an awesome, reliable spear guy. There's multiple ways to do your thing, giving you versatility in that one focus (if you go for the feat, you have better stance access. If you use the stance, other style feats. Etc).

>> No.43919199

Oh no doubt about it, I love the idea behind the discipline too. It's just that, I could use Scarlet Throne with Discipline Adapation (Polearm or Spear) and be equal, if not outright better, with the idea of "lance and stab through my foes". I feel like Piercing Thunder needs to have more support for mounted characters, for spear-throwers, and for Final Fantasy-style dragoons.

>> No.43919213

Does an Oni-Spawns Surperior Clutch trait also eliminate the disadvantages of a larger sized weapon?

>> No.43919235

I just want an initiating Daevic

Because dear god a Dominion Daevic with Piercing Thunder is the Lancer I've always wanted

>> No.43919244

Unless it says that it eliminates the penalty, no.

And looking at the trait, it does not mention it.

>> No.43919247

No, it just rewards them for using a sub-optimal option. If they choose or get lucky enough to replace their Alter Self SLA with the option to wield Large-scale weapons at no penalty, however, it is a great ability to have.

>> No.43919265


Wonder if it would break Gunsmoke if they could use melee-only strikes at Point Blank Range (Aka 5ft)

>> No.43919289

can someone give me a quick rundown of the akashic/daevic stuff going on of late?

what's their general shtick/mechanics?

i saw that you can get huge size increases from somethign or other added by them, but that's it.

>> No.43919290


Scarlet Throne already HAS Spears as a form weapon.

>> No.43919291

Piercing Thunder Style [Combat, Style]
You can use the natural reach of a spear or polearm with greater effectiveness.
Prerequisites: 1 or more Piercing Thunder stances, Acrobatics 3 ranks.
Benefit: While this style is active and you are wielding a weapon with the reach property, enemies provoke attacks of opportunity for moving into your threatened area. If an enemy would also provoke an attack of opportunity for moving out of your threatened area (such as an increased threatened area from being large size), they still only provoke one attack of opportunity from you.

What was that about the style feat again?

Allegiance Benefit: In addition to access to the Piercing Thunder discipline (exchanging a discipline of their choice), Reverents of the Lance threaten adjacent creatures while using a weapon from the spear or polearm weapon groups that has reach. Furthermore, they are always aware of the exact position of any outsiders with the chaotic and/or evil subtypes within 60 ft. of themselves and may not be surprised by such beings (such outsiders still benefit from concealment, if they have it).

And the Martial Tradition?

>> No.43919307

You post this shit in like every single thread.
Just house rule it in your nonexistant group.

>> No.43919342

I'm not really understanding how the Mystic's recovery works.

Can someone please explain it?

>> No.43919365

Basically Akashics get a laundry list of pseudo-magic-items called 'Veils', which fit into special slots similar to magic item slots (head, belt, etc). Their basic effects are decent if not exceptional, but they all get nice big buffs if you devote Essence (a pool they get sort of like spell points or power points but much smaller) to them, and you can shift around where your Essence is spent over the course of the day. So they're really flexible classes. As you level up, you also open up different Bind slots - each Veil usually fits into a couple of different slots, and Bind effects are unique effects that you ONLY get if it's in that slot and you're high enough level. So, you might have one Veil that has a Belt and Head option, and another that can be Belt or Boots, and each of those will have a bonus effect in the Belt slot once you unlock the Belt chakra.

>> No.43919372

>class idea you have that you want to play

A geomancer class whose entire shtick is modifying the battlefield into a playground for the party and a deathtrap for his enemies.

Incidentally, I'd also hope for a gunslinger+alchemist hybrid that use INT and DEX as his primary stats and can deliver healing potions, poisons, bombs, and infusions through a special alche-gun that can be upgraded with special attachments by level

>> No.43919400


I am not too great a fan of the daevic because it simply does not receive enough flexibility with its veils to be on the same level as the guru and the vizier (I actually *do* agree with the small handful who write /pfg/'s tier list about its tier 4 placement), and because each daevic's passion shoehorns it into a combat role too much: a Desire daevic is strongly pushed into being a thrower, a Dominion daevic a shield-basher, a Wrath daevic a bull rusher, and so on. Yes, such combat styles can be ignored, but that would be willfully sacrificing what the class gains free benefits for.

I would have preferred it if the daevic combat styles were divorced from the passions, so that one could have, for instance, a Desire daevic shield-user, two-hander, or two-weapon fighter who is actually vindicated in their choices. The three passions (and their subpassions) would still be distinct with their extra class skills, passion veils, and other bonuses.


>A geomancer class whose entire shtick is modifying the battlefield into a playground for the party and a deathtrap for his enemies.

That would be a standard arcane full caster who casts spells like Grease, Glitterdust, and Create Pit.

>> No.43919402

You pick two maneuvers at the start of the fight

Every time you would get an extra readied maneuver (either because you have more than 2 readied maneuvers at the start of a fight, or at the end of every turn) you randomly get one of your remaining known maneuvers granted.

>> No.43919409

are the veils exclusive to a slot (as in if you put on a belt one, can you not put on any other belt ones?)

>> No.43919422

you ready a set of maneuvers, and choose two you have set up for use.

At the (I can't remember which,can't check right now) start or end of your turn, you roll a die equal to the number of maneuvers you have left readied, but don't have access to. That maneuver becomes available.

If you try to make a new maneuver available and there aren't any left to be made available, reset. you get to choose a different two maneuvers available and you go back to the start of things. rinse and repeat.

>> No.43919424

By RAW, those bright light effects are just fluff and do not create the same bright light effect as mentioned within the glow rules, those have to be activated individually and have the points spent as normal according to the glow rules. You fucking autist language nazi.

You seemed to have missed how Alteration works, its mostly tooled around giving those goodies to other people, unless you go with the Lycanthropic drawback, and basically turning your allies into hulking monstrosities, but you do get free traits based on CL. Also, despite your grievances about the separation of CL progression and Spell pool (which we have explained to you about three months ago was a stupid complaint and that you're a faggot) works in favor of the low Casters since you can still apply thier extended alterations so themselves as often as the full casters. And honestly what low Caster isn't going to grab Lycanthropic?

I'm not saying Spheres doesn't have balancing issues, afterall, Incanter exists, however a lot of your complaints that you make I've noticed are based on misunderstanding rules as written, or just ignoring parts, like how according to RAW you cannot actually double-dip a single Sphere Specialization, and the fact that the main thing that hamstrings weather for the early levels isnthe fact that you have no protection from your own weather affects, so your boiling rain is going to turn your squishy ass to soup easily if you don't hold back, plus's moving a single weather condition up one effect innone catagory is a standard to full round action, so chances are once someone sees your nerd ass waving hands and making mist they will try to geek the mage.

The separation of High/Mid/Low Casters are fine, though I suggest a few of them have thier talent distribution fixed, and Counterspelling is now easier than ever, plus the idea of being able to multiclass your CL helps with many character concepts that were previously hamstringed by the Vancian system

>> No.43919440

Hey Elric, I really hate to be That Guy because I know you guys are actually busy. But did you get an answer on the Marksman having two class features granting competence bonuses to ranged attack rolls?

>> No.43919441


Ok. Take all your manuvers and write them on cards.

Put two of them down face up, then shuffle the deck.

Every turn, draw a new card. That's the maneuver you have access to.

When you run out of cards to draw, put 2 cards face up and shuffle all the other cards back into the deck. Time to start over.

>> No.43919443

Think of it this way--the mystic has some amount of maneuvers readied. That's their "deck." At any given time out of combat, they have two cards from the deck set aside for use at any time. At the start of an encounter, they draw a "hand" from the deck of those two cards and their other immediately granted maneuvers, then at the end of each of their turns, they draw another card.

When you run out of cards in your deck, you shuffle your hand and discard pile together and draw new cards.

>> No.43919446

Path of War question: A gunsmoke mystic treats firearms as associated weapons for all of its disciplines. Does that include disciplines that it accesses through unorthodox style or martial traditions?

>> No.43919451

Let me link you some guides.


Akasha uses veils, which are persistent effects that get stronger the more Essence (a special resource you get) you invest in them. Each veil has two discrete effects. A Shape, which you always have, and a bind, which you can only have a limited number of. Their effects last all day and get stronger the more Essence goes into them.

At the start of combat, the Mystic gets X (depending on level) random maneuvers from it's readied maneuvers. You pick two of those maneuvers, the rest are chosen randomly. Every turn, at the end of your turn, one of the maneuvers you DIDN'T get is given to you (randomly determined). Once you no longer have any more maneuvers to be returned to you, you start the cycle over again, getting X random maneuvers (pick two, they don't have to be the same as last time).


>> No.43919455

Generally speaking, yeah. There are a couple ways to get the ability to double-bind to a single slot, but no more than two (and each slot tends to have four or so Veils to choose from)

You also only know so many Veils (you gain new ones known per level)

Late game Akashics get pretty wild, just because you've got a nice wide variety of effects and you can retool if your current build isn't working for the challenge in front of you.

>> No.43919469

I will admit the Sphere Archetypes for the Paizo classes were retarded and cheap, but that's why I've been homebrewing myself some replacements personally.

tldr, your a faggot, you've been a huge faggot for months now, and you need to learn to stop drinking cum on a daily basis and get yourself some counseling for what seems to be a very real and legitimate case of aspergers you have.

Also I think the reason Adam hasn't come back is because your pedantic, overbearing, and accusatory way of typing and communication might have driven him off, especially since people tend to have thier eyes glaze over in response to your monster walls of text.


>> No.43919478

As-written, they both gain non-stacking competence bonuses. Having talked to one of the writers, it's possible that one of them was meant to be a circumstance bonus, but we need to get up with the other writer to get the full RAI. We'll get back to you on that.

>> No.43919480

Yep, asked this before. Trait/Tradition swaps are considered 'class disciplines', so if you swap for a disc, you get to count Firearms as a weapon for that disc. Only exception is the Combat Training feats since those aren't associated with your class.

>> No.43919483

y'ever see homestuck? basically vriska's power: your power are determined by chance and thumbing the scales a bit (you get a few that you always have ready, but the rest are granted randomly on a turn-by-turn basis).

for example: say you know maneuvers A, B, C, D, and E. at the start of the day, you can select to have A and B always on-tap if shit gets dangerous, but C, D, and E are granted randomly, one at a time each turn (and refresh automatically when all your options are rolled through). it's really interesting.

>> No.43919495

Thank you!

>> No.43919508

So it's like the ToB Crusader.

>> No.43919521

No problem. Yes, we got an answer. Wind reader probably supposed to be a circumstance bonus, but don't expect errata any time soon. RAW they just don't stack, and you ought to go on the RAW until you hear us say otherwise.

It counts for ALL disciplines, no matter what those disciplines you have are.

>> No.43919540

Understood, thank you for taking the time to check.

>> No.43919543

>That would be a standard arcane full caster
How about something that can borrow some class features from the Druid like 'plant speech' and ranger's favored terrain?
That and maybe medium BAB.

>> No.43919544

Why are there so many Traits that refit skills to Intelligence? Fucking why Paizo?

>> No.43919548

Almost exactly like Crusader, yes. The only difference is the two maneuvers that you pick.

>> No.43919562


Pretty much. Save in this case it's 'Surges of barely controlled magic' rather than 'Divine Inspiration'

>> No.43919565

Why not? There are plenty that refit to Wisdom and Charisma?

>> No.43919570

Is there a way for a bloodrager to get good natural weapons?

>> No.43919574


Alright. So, if you expend a maneuver, what happens to it? How do you get it back?

>> No.43919596

Do they get Rage Powers? Because Beast Totem/Fiend Totem.

>> No.43919597

you wait until you get to the Reset, at which point it gets shuffled back into the pool of maneuvers you either have chosen to make available, or are rolling to try and make available.

>> No.43919604

You wait, it'll come back on its own. Or you use Mystic's Blade Meditation (usually full round, Standard action with a feat) to reset your maneuver cycle and pick the maneuver as one of your two freebies.

>> No.43919609


Have a discard pile. When you run out of maneuvers in your deck, both hand and discard pile go back into deck.

>> No.43919619

Because enlightened nerds are superior to smelly jocks, pretty popular kids, and polite and reserved religious students.

cheg ur prif-ledge

>> No.43919650

All Akashic characters know all the veils from their class list. Some archetypes might work differently, but the three core classes all know all of their stuff and swap them each morning.

>> No.43919652


Because Nerds.

Same reason hardiness doesn't apply vs spells any more.

>> No.43919714

I actually agree with that, and I'm honestly fine with Int based skill swaps, assuming Wisdom based stuff gets the same treatment. Why shouldn't a fireball/bolt of magma be able to blast through a wall?

Charisma is kinda the red headed step child when it comes to mental stat swapping. I never understood /pfgs/ Int based hate boner.

>> No.43919729

Ah yeah, that's right

I haven't gotten to actually play one yet sadly

>> No.43919750

The thing with that is meant to demonstrate that they clearly have significant non-humanoid heritage (to the point where humanoid magic doesn't work on them) but have become... tainted? with humanity and their souls have split off.

>> No.43919777

well you can always cast a 1st level spell in a 9th level slot if you're a sorcerer or oracle. it's just the prepared casters that have to deal with that bullshit. sad that most of the good casters are prepared casters.

>> No.43919780

>they have never been creatures of "extraplanar" origin.
This is demonstrably wrong from the POV of the WotC and Paizo writers.

>3.0 SRD: "An outsider is a nonelemental creature that comes from another dimension, reality, or plane."
> PRD: "An outsider is at least partially composed of the essence (but not necessarily the material) of some plane other than the Material Plane."
>Shadow creature template (akin to celestial or fiendish): ""Shadow creature" is an inherited template that can be added to any living creature, referred to hereafter as the base creature...The base creature's type changes to outsider, and it gains the augmented subtype. "

>Lots of non-Outsiders have always existed on other planes, like elemental versions of animals, various magical beasts, dragons and other things that AREN'T Outsiders in fact make up the majority of life in the outer planes.
I would normally agree, but Paizo tried to retcon that in Bestiary 3. The shadow template (see above) originally didn't change type when it appeared in the ARG. Now it changes the type to outsider. So Paizo at least wants to advance the idea that outsider is more or less synonymous with extraplanar.

Yeah, that's an artifact of the extraplanar subtype being separated from the outsider type in 3.5 without changing the existing monsters to reflect that.

It does make little sense when things like chimeras and tarrasques are considered "natural."

>> No.43919784


It was never really walls that it was a problem with.

It was Animated Objects and Robots. It makes martials even more ineffectual against robots as spellcasters get to do full damage to them.

>> No.43919793

It's because the various options over the years have made it obvious that Paizo hates Wisdom and Charisma unless class abilities core to the class (such as spellcasting) HAVE to run on them. It's because there's no real equivalent to trading a skill or effect from INT to CHA or WIS; why can't I make Spellcraft checks based on my Charisma if I'm a sorcerer or a summoner? How come I can't use Wisdom for Combat Expertise?

>> No.43919808


>those bright light effects are just fluff and do not create the same bright light effect as mentioned within the glow rules

That is correct.

You have to spend a spell point to activate the bright light from Beacon of Hope, but *not* the bright light from Encompassing Light.

That is why Bound Light was issued errata: it did not cost a spell point when it really should have. I see no reason why Encompassing Light should not be held to the same standard.

>You seemed to have missed how Alteration works, its mostly tooled around giving those goodies to other people

As written, Alteration specifically and explicitly allows you to use it on other creatures. That is why Aquan Transformation can completely cripple many an enemy.

>works in favor of the low Casters since you can still apply thier extended alterations
Spheres like Alteration are *not* balanced in favor of low casters in the slightest.

A 5th-level full caster with Alteration (e.g. thaumaturgist, druid, or shifter) can apply an Alteration to themselves for 5 minutes and apply 2 traits to themselves.
A 5th-level low caster with Alteration to themselves for 2 minutes and apply 1 trait to themselves.
Rather than being balanced around "just as powerful effects, but much less uses per day" as psionic half- and third-manifesters, low casters are saddled with the completely backwards "just as many times per day, but much less powerful effects." Why is this the case?

>what low Caster isn't going to grab Lycanthropic?
Lycanthropic still means that the 5th-level low caster is still stuck with CL 2nd for Alteration.

>based on misunderstanding rules as written
Could you please cite cases wherein I have misunderstood rules without acknowledging such immediately afterwards?

>double-dip a single Sphere Specialization
I have never once claimed that you could do such a thing. I have, on the other hand, claimed that you could stack a sphere specialization and a sorcerer focus sphere, which *do* stack.

>> No.43919841 [SPOILER] 

Oh. Well, Druids work for that, and Changelings get a WIS bonus.

Other ideas are to use their CHA bonus to go Sorcerer, or even Mesmerist.

After all, heterochromia makes your eyes more noticeable - and you want them to look into your eyes, don't you?

>> No.43919844


>why can't I make Spellcraft checks based on my Charisma if I'm a sorcerer or a summoner

Honestly, Spellcraft wouldn't be bad if it was Spellcraft(Casting Stat). With non-casters picking a mental stat.

>> No.43919846

Didn't someone last thread say that you CL and whatnot in SoP stacked when you multiclass?

SoP p161.
>If a player or GM wishes a player to follow two traditions (similar to creating a wizard/cleric in traditional Pathfinder), they may do so. When gaining a level in a casting class beyond their 1st, the caster may apply that casting level to a new tradition.
>They gain an entirely separate set of spheres, talents, caster lev el, spell points, drawbacks, and boons, which are determined similarly to but completely separate from the first set. >When creating a magical effect, they must choose which of these traditions (and its associated spheres, talents, spell points, etc.) they will use; they cannot use aspects of one tradition to em power the other.
>Whenever the caster gains a level in a casting class, they must decide which of their traditions that casting class level will be applied to for gaining spell points, casting level, and talents.

>> No.43919869

Races you wished were playable?

Harpies and Intelligent Undead for me please.

>> No.43919909

Because spell-craft is based on the knowledge of the spells you have in general.

I know that TG likes to get on the "fuckin' nerds lel" but Wisdom is a perfectly fine stat, that has Wisdom-in-the-Flesh and deals with making a DEX or STR skill check WIS based.

So chill your pills man. I'd say that Wisdom is the best mental stat anyways. Who cares about skills that aren't Spellcraft or Perception anwyays or Knowledge Arcana, Religion, Nature, Dungeoneering and The Planes?

>> No.43919913


They get a big-ass roll table that gives them four or so racial traits.

>> No.43919948

Well...Bloodforge sort of has you covered, in the form of the Kestrel.

Could a kind anon (re)post their pages and/or artwork?

>> No.43919951

A man picks locks recreationally.

>> No.43919961


Really, why can't we have an alternate playable drow race that happen to have drider traits like wall-climbing and web?

>> No.43919964

>>based on misunderstanding rules as written
>Could you please cite cases wherein I have misunderstood rules without acknowledging such immediately afterwards?
>>double-dip a single Sphere Specialization
>I have never once claimed that you could do such a thing. I have, on the other hand, claimed that you could stack a sphere specialization and a sorcerer focus sphere, which *do* stack.
Wrong, you've clearly said otherwise. Go, look up the archive fornwhen you were talking to parrot about Weather Sphere and you were doubledipping Spherespec from both Incanter and Sphere Wizard.

Honestly, you are the reason people keep getting scared away from Spheres, and why Adam isn't coming back.

>> No.43919965

Demons & Devils.

Also, Gnolls and Minotaurs.

>> No.43919969

Again, Charisma is red a red headed step child in this instance.

You can have a gut feeling about a magical effect or simply use process of elimination/common sense(Wisdom). That makes sense

Using good common sense/intuition to know what chemicals to mix during a Craft(Alchemy) check also makes sense.

How does good leadership, sense of self, eloquence, and presence allow you to understand a spell effect, mixing potions, or actually knowing your shit?

>> No.43919976


>> No.43919985

Thank you, based anon.

>> No.43919994

You mean tieflings?
Also, minotaurs are playable in the pfsrd.

>> No.43920000

That's fine. But I'm solely talking about the essentials. Intelligence is okay if you want to snag some skills, but it can be a safe dump stat if you don't rely on it too much. Spell-craft is necessary for the obvious reasons.

>> No.43920003

An ooze race, and a medium sized construct race.
Also a large sized giant race.

>> No.43920014

>Demons & Devils
Tieflings, they actually have agency not dependant of Deific meddling like Fiends do.
Back pages of the ARG
You got me there.

>> No.43920022

>medium sized construct race.
>Also a large sized giant race.
Jotunborns and Half-Giants

>> No.43920028

I do not. I mean actual fiends. Succubi, Bearded Devils, Imps, and the like.

>> No.43920032

Ditto, I want this. Just a big ol' chart full of options that are equal to one-another in each subsection, so that each one is technically-balanced with each other but plays completely differently.

>> No.43920040

>the fact that the main thing that hamstrings weather for the early levels is
Weather is a quadratic sphere, as I explicitly stated in >>43918038. It begins *very* weak, but can reach absurd heights with enough talent investment, much more so than any other sphere. It is akin to Conjuration in that regard, except that Conjuration is already quite strong out-of-the-box.

I have never once claimed that Weather is overpowered right from the start. That simply is not the case. It is one of the weakest out-of-the-box.

>the fact that you have no protection from your own weather affects
My point exactly: Cold, Heat, Rain, and Wind Lord explicitly creates "eyes of the storm," which add to the quadratic effect.

>plus's moving a single weather condition up one effect innone catagory is a standard to full round action, so chances are once someone sees your nerd ass
Weather is *not* a tactical-usage sphere. Much like Teleport or Commune, it is a strategic-usage, "noncombat" sphere that can influence adventures and the world to a powerful extent, but not necessarily combat.

I think you have been misunderstanding what I have been saying regarding the Weather sphere all this time.

>The separation of High/Mid/Low Casters are fine
Psionics shows us that "just as powerful effects, less uses per day" is the way to go for partial "casters," particularly since it means that the times each day they do use their "spells" are important events. Such characters can use their non-"casting" class features and plain combat otherwise.

Spheres does it the entirely backwards way by having it be "just as many times per day, but much weaker effects." This simply need not be the case at all, and yet it is built into the chassis of Spheres and the design of many classes, such as the mageknight. It is a shame.

>Counterspelling is now easier than ever
It also takes a fair while to acquire for a Low Caster. A mageknight must wait until 10th-level to be able to take the Counterspell feat.

>> No.43920055

Actually, as one of the handbook writers, Adam Meyers isn't coming back because he doesn't understand how to use the system 4chan has in-place AT ALL. Like, it was painful trying to walk him through it.

>> No.43920058

Androids aren't constructs, they look and function like humans. They're honestly closer to homunculi fluff wise. I think he means something like Warforged.

>> No.43920065

A big bonus to INT or Wis with penalties to all physical traits, like reverse Trox.

>> No.43920103

Androids don't have near to the full set of construct immunities.

>> No.43920115

>races I wish were playable

I am not a creative anon.

>> No.43920120

And I think they have CON scores.

>> No.43920122

Maybe a succubi or a lesser imp. Actual devils and demons are pretty powerful, man.

>> No.43920137

Warforged weren't true constructs either; while they had metal plating, their innards were mostly made of livewood fibers simulating muscualture. Warforged were cyborg trees.

>> No.43920144

>Wrong, you've clearly said otherwise. Go, look up the archive fornwhen you were talking to parrot about Weather Sphere and you were doubledipping Spherespec from both Incanter and Sphere Wizard.

This is incorrect.


The build in question was druid (menhir savant, sphere) 2/incanter (full specialization, weather) 1/sorcerer (weather sphere) 1/four other spherecasting levels.

At no point did the build ever try to stack sphere wizard and incanter specializations.

In another thread, I *did* mention incanter levels and sphere wizard levels going together, but that was for a Destruction build (trying to make blaster viable) that did *not* place two sphere specializations in the same sphere.

You may have been misunderstanding what I was attempting to convey.

>> No.43920153

>each outsider clan gets a player race
>they are literal members of that race
>the only benefits they get are the full powers of their subtype

>> No.43920165

I wish that rilkans, from Magic of Incarnum, got updated for PF. But I know they exist outside the OGL so a direct copy is not gonna happen.

>> No.43920192


>> No.43920193

i miss EO3. i hope they make an untold version once they get 5 finished.

robots fighting eldritch abominations, fuck yeah

>> No.43920206

I said I wanted to play them; not that it wouldn't take some doing to make them playable.

I've made them playable for players in the past without issue, but it takes a slightly different approach, they're too beefy to just dump it all in the racial features and hope for the best.

You need like a Racial Paragon Class Template, or Racial Paragon Feats, or a Racial Paragon PrC with the only Prereq being membership of the race.

And then the PC invests in the race if they want the additional power.

>> No.43920221 [SPOILER] 


>> No.43920237

You mean like "Race: Devil"?

That could work okay.

The specific racial abilities could be acquired through ACFs/Class Templates/PrCs/Feats.

>> No.43920244

Literally Soul Knives

>> No.43920245


>> No.43920286

I meant more like "Devil: Dadrakhana" or something.
They are literal members of that clan, just like a glabrazu is a demon.

>> No.43920295

i think he means race of (shapeshifting) magical girls tied to a stone that houses their actual life force--the body is just a construct.

also topical; madoka was a great adventure for a party of lich witches

>> No.43920318


Gotcha covered senpai.

>> No.43920324

Hey, I know you guys hate the kingdom building rules and all, but do you suppose someone could help me out a bit and answer a question for me?

I'm in a Kingmaker campaign and we just finished the fourth book. The DM has warned us in and out of character that we need to be prepare our nation in case of war or attack. We've decided to just dedicate a few months in-game to expanding our borders, collecting resources, and building up our defenses.

So, in regards to that, we've been looking at some buildings we haven't considered for a while, like barracks and watchtowers. They boost our cities' defense modifier, but I'm not sure what that number is used for. I mean, what it's used for is obvious, so I should phrase that differently- how is it used? I know each city has its own defense modifier, but when is it rolled? What are the DCs, and the penalties for failing? Most of all, do they interact at all with the rules for mass combat? Those rules were used once in book four, but the DM mentioned that they'll be seeing more use in book five.

>> No.43920326

All I can imagine right now is a party of skeletal, rotting, and all around undead liches decked out in evil looking wizarding gear adventuring yet inexplicably speaking in anime voices (in japanes, I may add).

>> No.43920327

One of them was a lich paladin

>> No.43920329

If I drop Vancian Casting, and am using Psionics and Spheres, and I want some kind of soul-gem magic (a la elder scrolls or the magic jar spell), I'd have to homebrew something, right?

Is there any kind of contingency effect in spheres? (a quick look through the book didn't turn it up for me, but I'm not super familiar with it)

>> No.43920336

Don't hate.

The protoss would make an awesome psionic race.
Khalai would be good tacticians
Nezarim as stealthy soulknives
Taldarim as blasty psions

>> No.43920346

so basically Overlord.

>> No.43920358

We've been over this.
Harpies actually have a CHA bonus and a captivating song as features.

Strix have that human racial hatred and are said to be ugly as hell

>> No.43920360

Same answer as the last time this question was asked. Kobolds.

>> No.43920390

Then just swap the racial hatred out with your stupid song SU or something, jesus.

>> No.43920395

To be honest I think you'd be better off just reading the mass combat rules yourself to familiarize yourself with them.

>> No.43920430

Can do, I just wasn't sure if the statistic was used by the mass combat rules since they're mentioned in the kingdom building rules and I'd figure that they'd be mentioned in the system that they're used for. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

>> No.43920523

Kestrels are fun to play. Wish there was more material for them.

>> No.43920561


The best birdpeople.

>> No.43920597

They are indeed used exclusively in Mass Combat.

Also, they are trivially easy to break and exploit, so try and have a little fun with your armies and such. In my game the party invested pretty much everything into an elite special forces unit who just tore apart enemy forces through guerilla tactics

>> No.43920608

I've always wanted an artificial human or a homunculus as a playable race.

They'd be created and discarded or exiled by a mad wizard or some shit.
They'd have certain 'mutations' in their bodies to suit purposes they were created for.

laborers would have larger muscular arms for heavy lifting and tougher skeletal frames, but lack any formal education (+2 STR, +2 CON, -2 INT)

soldiers would have tough hides but look less humanoid as a result ( +2 STR, nat armor, -2 CHA)

sentries would have darkvision and scent as well as a more honed hunting instinct, but their lithe frames makes them less sturdier (+2 DEX, +2 WIS, -2 STR)

And then there are homunculi that just have random mutations like extra limbs, a third eye, etc.

>> No.43920637

Falconer Archetype

Is a hunter-equivalent animal companion even worth losing wild empathy over? Can't I just teach my eagle companion the Swooping Charge trick normally? I usually build for flavor but geez

>> No.43920687

Okay /pfg/.

Can someone sum up the value/cool factor of Akashic Mysteries for me?

What does it bring to the table over the other "magic" systems / why might I want to include it?

>> No.43920694


>but that's why I've been homebrewing myself some replacements personally.
I think that it would be best to create more support for the eleven new classes that Spheres of Power presented, rather than try to shoehorn preexisting classes into a paradigm that they were simply never built for.

The Advanced Class Guide is full of archetypes that take class features from APG and ACG classes and transplant them over to other classes; the same could be done to create new options for Sphere classes. There could be a mageknight archetype that gains magus abilities, a thaumaturge archetype that makes it more like a warpriest, a hedgewitch tradition that simulates oracle revelations, and so on.

>get yourself some counseling for what seems to be a very real and legitimate case of aspergers you have
My next scheduled appointment is several months from now. The local health care system is not very convenient at all, and the 1.5-hour-long appointments are spaced several months apart.

>pedantic, overbearing, and accusatory way
Could you please expound on this? I use neither profanity nor ad hominem once and am strict to keep to polite, quasi-formal wording. Logically, this should present a reasonable air.

>monster walls of text
One would think that covering a topic comprehensively in a single post is preferable to addressing a topic over the course of several disjointed posts.


>and you ought to go on the RAW until you hear us say otherwise.
Does treating Wind Reader as a circumstance bonus create any balance issues with the plain marksman? What about the decidedly more powerful marksman (disciple of the third eye)?


Then that would be something akin to a cleric or a druid.

>> No.43920698

Not worth it. Go for Hunter instead.
You lose out on swooping charge, but you get something better like teamwork feats.

And if you're using a small-medium creature like a falcon for direct confrontations, you're doing it wrong.

Wanna know how to do 20d6 + 6d6 damage with a hawk?

>> No.43920713

>mfw I will never get to play a true Azlanti
>mfw I will never be heralded as the second coming of Aroden

>> No.43920743


>> No.43920755

Reconfigurable hard-magic constructs that give you superpowers and angel wings and shit.

>> No.43920764

>Does treating Wind Reader as a circumstance bonus create any balance issues with the plain marksman? What about the decidedly more powerful marksman (disciple of the third eye)?

Does it matter if it does or not? The answer is "They are both Competence Bonuses until you hear otherwise." That's really all there is to it.

>> No.43920828


Intelligence currently has the metaphorical lion's share of powerful "use X ability modifier in place of Y ability modifier for Z skill" traits and feats.


- Clever Wordplay is a social trait that lets you use Intelligence in place of Charisma for any one Charisma-based skill.

- Student of Philosophy is a social trait that lets you use Intelligence in place of Charisma for Bluff when lying and Diplomacy when persuading people.

- Cunning Liar is a regional trait that lets you use Intelligence in place of Charisma for Bluff.

- Orator is a feat that lets you make a Linguistics check in place of the social uses of Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate, and remember that a wizard can have a +3 Linguistics familiar on top of Skill Focus (Linguistics) and a Linguistics-raising trait.

>> No.43920834

Give your falcon an intelligence of 4.
Teach it the bombardment trick.
Buy it a haversack filled with feather token: tree
Instruct it to drop trees over enemies.

Max fall damage is 20d6.
Large falling object damage is 6d6

as per rules: Dropping an object on a creature requires a ranged touch attack. Such attacks generally have a range increment of 20 feet. If an object falls on a creature (instead of being thrown), that creature can make a DC 15 Reflex save to halve the damage if he is aware of the object.

Take note of the "If he is aware of the object"
Deny them the awareness using a dirty trick, a companion trick, or really, anything you can think of cos you're a goddamn hunter with a druid spell list!

>> No.43920860

that's is so cheesy, I like it.

>> No.43920901

Here's the hilarious kicker.
Feather Token Trees are 10ft x 30ft.

Capitalize on that fact.

>> No.43920954

or feather token anchor

>> No.43920966

>Things are not stable right now. OA gutted our psionics sales, and guess what was funding all those passion projects people are excited about?

Have you guys considered IndieGoGo/Kickstarter/Crowdsourcing?

Why don't you guys have some kind of Patreon set up for a steady monthly income provided by people who like your work?

You've got a proven track record, either of these options should be fairly reliable.


>> No.43921023

No. There's a reason why I said feather token: tree:

1) falling damage is based off size and not material composition. A tree is considered huge (6d6) while the anchor is only medium (2d6)

2) the tree token has the dimensions 10ft wide by 30ft high. which can affect large swaths of enemies and can even be used to make impromptu roadblocks. anchors are only 5ftx5ft

>> No.43921030

Did anyone played the "Shatterd Star" Adventure Path, and if yes, who was it?

>> No.43921034


That is an optional rule that a player can invoke. By default, caster level stacks in Spheres of Power, as per the introductory chapter:
>A multi-classed caster determines his total caster levels by adding together his caster levels from all his classes. A caster level of 0 is treated as if it were 1 when determining a caster's capabilities.


>Who cares about skills that aren't Spellcraft or Perception anwyays or Knowledge Arcana, Religion, Nature, Dungeoneering and The Planes?

If the campaign is anything but a series of dungeon crawls (which, let us face it, many of Paizo's adventure paths actually are, most notably the original Rise of the Runelords), then Intelligence becomes quite useful for skill points and various knowledges.

If the campaign *is* a series of linked dungeon crawls, then you are correct and Wisdom is likely the better statistic. Wisdom can be used for Stealth thanks to the Wisdom in the Flesh religion trait, and for Bluff with the Cunning Liar regional trait.

Although it takes some work (Skill Focus and worship of an evil deity, perhaps as part of pantheon worship), Wisdom can even be used for Diplomacy given the Diabolical Negotiator trait.


I have spoken to you on Skype personally. Could you perhaps ask Adam Meyers if you yourself could personally serve as an official PR liaison from Drop Dead Studios to /tg/, relaying word from Adam Meyers as necessary?

>> No.43921204

What is yo skype anyways

>> No.43921470

What's the best class I can take for going on a rampage and just punching things to death? Just a non-stop roaring rampage of punching.
I can use PoW and Paizo material.

>> No.43921483


>> No.43921500

What kind of punching are you talking here? Punching a lot of times? Punching for a lot of damage? Little of both? Things besides punching?

>> No.43921516

>mfw I will never be heralded as the second coming of Aroden

Anon... There's an easy way to do this, and that is to follow his steps.

Just start as a Human with significant investment in blacksmithing, particularly weapons.

>> No.43921553

>Just a non-stop roaring rampage of punching.

Barbarian/Brawler gestalt.

Or just Barbarian.

>> No.43921570

Aroden was basically PF Elminster, it's doable but very hard.

>> No.43921588

How do you Guts? High-optimization Gestalt game.

>> No.43921604

1pp or 3pp?

>> No.43921614

>High-optimization Gestalt game.


>> No.43921618

Punching for a lot of damage. Things beside punching are nice, but are not necessary.

>> No.43921661

All content. 3.5 and PF and 3pp.

>> No.43921755

Power Attack, dip a level or two of MoMS UMonk to get both Dragon Style and Pummeling Style, then pick up Dragon Ferocity as a feat at some point. Grab all the TWF feats as well as Double Slice.

Now, for the rest of it I suggest Alchemist because it's the class that can reach the highest possible Strength score, and once you hit Alchemist 16 (which would be level 18) you'd get Transformation, making you a full-BAB character.

If you want to do something dumber and your DM allows Dragon Style to apply to Dex, URogue with Circling Mongoose could also be good.

>> No.43921879

Probably Titan Mauler/Zweihander or maybe Titan Fighter. Greatsword's easy, just get a heap of raw iron too big to be called a sword. For the cannon arm, use the weapon design rules to create a one-handed exotic firearm (8 DP total) with the Attached (1 DP), Concealed (1 DP), and Shield (1 DP) qualities with Improved Damage increased to 1d10 (4 DP) and you can get additional DP to pick up Improved Critical multiplier (3 DP).

>> No.43921891

Thanks for the advice, this should work pretty nicely.

>> No.43921931

I hate how the Pathfinder's Path of War pages are all set up. It would be preferable to have all the maneuvers listed from a level to level basis. Instead of from their names. Considering that CTRL + F exists, there should be no reason to list the maneuvers in alphabetical order.

>> No.43921973

Also, get an AoMF with Sharding, Quaking, and Leveraging when you can afford it in addition to a permanent +5 magic fang on your fists. You might have to get that redone a few times if it gets dispelled. It's dumb, but punching people from 50 feet away and punching the ground to trip people is too fun.

>> No.43921975

Mobile site exists, so no, I'd disagree, having used it. That said, there should be a table of contents that sorts them by level.

>> No.43922065

So, anyone have Agents of Evil early that can give a quickie review of the parts of it?

>> No.43922235


>Also, get an AoMF with Sharding, Quaking, and Leveraging

Where are those from?

>> No.43922246

About how many Disciplines are good to invest in?

I'm making a Crimson Countess Harbinger and I'm looking at:

Cursed Razor
Veiled Moon
Scarlet Throne (Via Scarlet Sentinels)

Is three too many to try investing in? Any experience with any of those styles/harbringers?

Houserules of note: Finesse weapons just flat use dex for to hit/damage, I can swap the Harbinger to Cha rather than Int based if I want (And I'm tempted to because this really feels like a charming, seductive sort of character idea with this much damn vampire).

>> No.43922251

Weapon Master's Handbook. This is what they do.

>> No.43922305

You only have the maneuvers to invest in about 2.5, generally. One main one, one secondary, and then maybe a smattering of other stuff. Three is fine, as long as you're not trying to go "all-in" in all three of them.

>> No.43922322

Does falling damage bypass DR?

>> No.43922342

>"The wielder of a sharding weapon can make a special ranged attack with the weapon in place of any melee attack."
>in place of any melee attack
>not in place of an attack action

Aww yiss, ranged normally-melee Strikes.

>> No.43922346


Quick, hide Gareth

>> No.43922410

Why is /pfg/ so hostile and name-calling to anyone who criticizes DSP on anything?

>> No.43922440

I don't know. Half of /pfg/ is shilling them a lot of the time, I guess.

>> No.43922442

We are? It's generally universally agreed that PoW damage is too high until level 4 or 5 and that full-manifesting psionics are still capable of breaking the game.

>> No.43922459


I was looking at going All In on Scarlet Throne (I plan to use a Rapier) and Veiled Moon and just sorta picking up fragments of other stuff. That seem reasonable?

Honestly, Cursed Razor is kinda just there and I'd be happy to swap it out if I could figure out what for that fits the theme and works with a dip. Maybe something with a good save replace as Veiled Moon has some AC replacers?


He not a fan?

>> No.43922463


>> No.43922485

Yeah, sounds about right. All of those discs are good.

>> No.43922494

Nah, he feels that it doesn't fit/isn't needed enough to justify the resources needed, and for a long time people wouldn't stop asking even after repeated explanations of why he wouldn't.

>> No.43922572


Ah, I wasn't about for that.

I'll admit I'm 100% going Cha because it's the Crimson Countess variant. I'm a vampiric noble fencer. There was no way I wasn't going to shit Cha everywhere.

My original idea had actually been a Riven Hourglass focused Magus which is still on the cards...but I'll admit I was a bit iffy about it's level 2 counter. As you need to pass the attacks DC AND manage to make the 5ft step to avoid it. Lot more hoops than other similar counters.

Still, that character is still on the cards too because there are so few games one can play a Chronomancer.


Cool. Any thoughts on Cursed Razor/What would be a good replacement?

>> No.43922620

Cursed Razor itself is very strong, with some amazing debuffs. Shattered Mirror is one of the better disciplines, with huge amounts of utility, one of the best defensive abilities in the game (Infinity Mirror Stance, iirc. The one at 3rd level), and is overall just neat. Parts of Piercing Thunder overlap nicely with Scarlet Throne and fencing, and Mithral Current, thanks to the fact that "sheathing" for its purposes is synonymous with "any position that isn't obviously in an attack position/it's just an action cost and a flag for improved maneuvers", is REALLY fucking cool for fencers. Quick feinting (but not Feinting) attacks, sword beams, the works.

I'd recommend Cursed Razor, Shattered Mirror, or Mithral Current.

Sleeping Goddess as an honorable mention because it's just so anime. It gives enough pp by itself to be decent.

>> No.43922639

>to act as an accomplice of a hawker, gambler, or swindler who acts as an enthusiastic customer to entice or encourage others.
So half of /pfg/ is plants for a company that can't even afford new art for the iconic zealot?

>> No.43922677

I don't know. I don't see what all the fuss is about; PoW is cool, but I haven't had a chance to try it in a game. It seems like it at some points, though.

>> No.43922769


Mithril Current sounds right up my alleyway, honestly. Now just to work out how to get it on a Harbringer. Maybe the GM will allow it if I ask nicely.

>> No.43922782

Oh yeah. Mithral current also has a bunch of counters that block an attack, then riposte. It's great for fencers.

>> No.43922785


Anon(s), for all the nothing-at-all my word is worth, I wouldn't /want/ anyone to hawk my shit without awareness of its flaws and the ability to express them to others. Part of the reason we come here to /pfg/ is because the community here provides swift, detailed, and fearless feedback. It's not like that in a lot of places; /tg/ has torn mechanics apart that our other fanbases /didn't even notice/, let alone provide data for.

We can't grow as designers without people willing to cut us down. I'm glad to have that here in a venue where I can get people to explain shit rather than, for instance, do the Facebook thing where they talk shit at you in a different way without actually addressing your points.

I like to think that /pfg/ likes us/me because we've repaid their loyalty with our own, but honestly I spend most of my time in a vague mix of affection and terror for the community here so I ain't gonna push the issue. If you've got somethin' you feel the need to express, express it. I'm here to listen. It is, literally, my job.

And nice t'meet'cha. I look forward to working with you.

>> No.43922808

Heart-Piercing Heavy Repeating Crossbow

Aww yiss

>> No.43922809

>/tg/ has torn mechanics apart that our other fanbases /didn't even notice/, let alone provide data for.

Anything in-particular come to mind?

>> No.43922849


Would the following work for a makeshift Charisma-based harbinger? Intelligence is already substantially superior to Charisma in many regards even without skill points being taken into account (see: various traits), so I imagine that there would be plenty of leeway when homebrewing a makeshift Charisma harbinger.

Extroverted Empress (Harbinger Archetype)
Some harbingers' well of strength is not their understanding of their own emotions, but their ability to sway the sentiments of others.
Learn from Others (Ex): An extroverted empress acquires skills primarily by interacting with others and learning from them. She uses her Charisma modifier in place of her Intelligence modifier to determine her skill points per level for all harbinger class levels.
The Heart's Craft (Ex): The extroverted empress's initiation modifier is Charisma, and any class features which key off of Intelligence now key off of Charisma instead. In addition, she can use her Charisma modifier in place of her Intelligence modifier when making Craft and Spellcraft checks.

I do not think such an archetype would have to replace anything. Would it?

>> No.43922874

Why Craft checks? How do you Charisma to crafting? Same for Spellcraft, since Spellcraft is basically a knowledge skill.

Someone who crafts with their emotions seems more up the mystic's alley.

>> No.43922890

do you know what the expression "made with love" means?

>> No.43922908

Since it's 1:30 in the morning and I'm awake only on my undying hatred? No, but if shoddy memory serves it was in the region of archetypes & Disciplines. Definitely with Knight-Chandler.

Pic related.

>> No.43922919

Oh. That actually makes some amount of sense. Spellcraft I guuuuuesss could work kinda-sorta like UMD.

Also, fuck the "use Cha as Int and also it's all the good stuff of Int." If you want another stat, use the other stat. Each has good parts and bad parts, and the difference isn't a big enough thing to warrant getting extra goodies for a fluff change.

>> No.43922937


Eh, I think you are right in that Charisma IS worse than Int but I'd rather not play with it too much.

Not like the Harbinger does't have a heap of good social skills in it's skill list.

>> No.43922958


Cursed Razor and Shattered Mirror are both harbinger-native disciplines (and indeed, they are harbinger-signature disciplines, as they were presented along with the harbinger in its PDF).

Cursed Razor uses Spellcraft, while Shattered Mirror uses Craft.

There are already completely (Ex) abilities that allow the use of Charisma in place of Intelligence for knowledge-related skills, namely the oracle's Lore Keeper revelation and the Planar Savant trait. I see no reason why there could not be a similar (Ex) class feature for Craft and Spellcraft.


Charisma is nowhere as useful in-system as Intelligence, particularly given certain traits (and perhaps even a feat, Orator, should one wish to raise their social skills very high).

>> No.43923007


So take a slight step down in usefulness and buff them in other ways. An archetype that swaps a stat should have fluff and mechanical stuff attached, because stats themselves have fluff and mechanical baggage attached. A simple stat swap would just be something I'd attach to a trait, or for free as a houserule.

>Discussing outwardly emotional harbinger

>> No.43923039

The problem is that your way of handling it is clunky and inelegant. It's a stupidly obvious "this is a patch because Cha doesn't get skill points, hurr" and is overall just shit design, similar to how those traits and feat are.

>> No.43923056

>Definitely with Knight-Chandler.
Something to do with the little Light bit that floated around doing something squirrely with you being your own ally or whatever.

>> No.43923075 [SPOILER] 

Why do you hate CHArbinger, Gareth-sama?

.gif might be related.

>> No.43923104

I...have no idea what this is.

>> No.43923107

For sorcerers magic is intuitive and inate. Wizards learn through study, and use int. For sorcery, magic is achieved through force of personality as magic is a part of their being, rather than an outside force internalized. Spellcraft working because it feels right when attached to CHA makes sense. Any skill replacing int with CHA doesn't feel good to me, but a bardic knowledge equivalent that allows you to take ten or twenty at different points feels balanced. An EE with five ranks in an int based skill can use CHA in place of INT modifier might be nice as well? You use int to get ranks into more skills so it's not useless, but get good enough and then your knack at it takes over and you begin to excel.

>> No.43923129

It's friendship!and magical girls.

>> No.43923154

Prisma Ilya, it's actually pretty decent all things considered. It helps to know about the rest of the Nasuverse (Fate/Stay Night, Fate/Zero, Fate/Hollow Ataraxia, Tsukihime, Kara no Kyoukai, etc) though. I'd suggest watching or reading about some of the things listed, then go watch Prisma Ilya.

>> No.43923202


Those traits and feat still exist, and a harbinger is very much free to dump Charisma and take them.

If skill points are not a good thing to allow a Charisma-based harbinger to gain an X-stat-to-Y-bonus to, then what would be more ideal? Something noncombat-utility-oriented? Something defensive? Something mobility-related? The harbinger has enough offense and control as it currently stands, so those should not be X-stat-to-Y-bonus-ed further.

Perhaps adding Charisma modifier to Sense Motive checks and Charisma modifier - 2 (minimum +1 total) again to Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate checks would be sensible? The alchemist (mindchemist) can already do something similar with Knowledge skills.

>> No.43923205

try loli (dot) dance
It's the fate stay night spinoff that took an adult character and made her a 13 year old magical girl in an alternate universe timeline.

The series has its ups and downs, but I remember years ago when everyone collectively shit their pants at EMIYA ILYA. If EMIYA doesn't mean anything to you, maybe you should read the visual novel.

>> No.43923258

You won't get that lucky.

E-rank luck.

>> No.43923273

Yeah, gonna admit that I still have not the faintest clue aside from vaguely recognizing the "Fate/thing" title format and getting conflicting data on if I should watch it.

Honestly, anon, I am too tired and too fucked up from my day to address this with the courtesy your question deserves. And it is not a question that makes me happy to begin with, because it's one of the few things /pfg/ has ever done to make me unreasonably, unendingly angry.

>> No.43923312

Yes you can.

>Shattered Star book 2
>lady's light
>purposely fail the save for the trap
>reincarnated into Sorshen body
>drink elixir of sex shift

Male Azlanti. Done. Well, Thassilonian, technically, but basically the same.

Or you could just ask your GM to let you play as a stasis-locked Azlanti survivor or whatever. Let the rest of the group get a slightly higher PB than you (the stat boosts don't matter past about level 6-8 anyway), and be forced to take Linguistics or similar to speak Common.

>> No.43923325


As the person who brought that to this thread recently: I'm terribly sorry I guess?

I didn't know it made people angry. I mentioned it purely because it would be relevant for people helping with Maneuvers to know my good stat was not Int.

>> No.43923352

You didn't do anything wrong, anon.

>> No.43923363

What are the best field control and terrain reshaping Sphere effects?

Offhandedly, some of Dark and Protection's Barrier/Greater Barrier seem nice, but ultimately I want to maximize my area denial and ability to create barricades and the like. Preference for things that don't need more than one spell point at a time to use.

>> No.43923366

The Fate/series and the nasuverse in general is fairly decent, in my opinion. It's also not something you watch, but more along the lines of a visual novel - basically a book with attached illustrations and music and junk.

It does get slightly pornographic at times, but never creepily so.

There are some anime adaptations and some AU manga or sidestories (Such as Prisma Ilya, which is the subject posted >>43923075 and >>43923205) about a magic artificially enhanced magic child. In the original series she dies depending on the choices you make. Prisma Ilya is a light hearted re-imagining with magical girls and kick-ass fight sequences.

I think its worth your time, but >opinions

>> No.43923460

Fate Stay Night is not exceptionally high tier, but still decent tier. Plot synopsis is magic organization has developed magical ritual piting seven people in a death match alongside heroes summoned through time, so that the winner may obtain the holy grail and have any wish granted. After completing the first branch of the story, you unlock the option to go down a second, then third storyline with vastly different implications on the storyline. The cute dancing blond girl attempted to viciously murder you in the first route. In the second route you may cry for her.

It's primarily an action series with a decent background universe. The original works had sections that are just straight up porn, but the story was strong enough that the expanded series with the porn removed is going strong after ten years. I recommend the voice acted PSP release instead of watching the anime, but I'll attempt to convince you later if you don't mind.

>> No.43923463

Some guy was asking about having White Phyrexians in pathfinder so I whipped this up. Hope somebody likes it.


>> No.43923560

Bullshit. Bestiary 3 was released ages ago and every other template of similar design including ones released since DONT turn things into outsiders. Fiery, Cthonic, Celestial etc. These things all say "these are the denizens of X plane" but none of them turn things into outsiders. The fact the shadow plane turns things into outsiders is totally separate from how the other denizens work, especially since the Shadow Plane (unlike other planes) is KNOWN for suffusing the beings that dwell there and altering their very essence, whilst long term exposure to the plane of fire just makes you sweaty.

>> No.43923700

Aw goddamn it.

There aren't any new good weapon enhancements to add to a mindblade.

>> No.43923764

New Thread?

>> No.43923893

Jesus fucking Christ the Downtime guide in the OP pastebin is just plainly full of shit. You don't even get through the first bit without things that are just flat out made the fuck up - nowhere is it stated that Gardens become more efficient if you use Plant Growth on them, and even if they did, a Cleric 1 of the Earth Domain can't cast Plant Growth at all, and even if they could, Downtime explicitly explains that spellcasters you hire as Teams still have to be paid normally for spells they cast on your behalf, just like hiring any other spellcaster to cast a spell.

The whole fucking thing just goes on and on with things that have little to flatly no rules basis at all, RAW or RAI, and it acts the entire time like it does.

>> No.43923940

dtg btfo tbqh

>> No.43923947

>Enrichment: This effect targets plants within a range of a half-mile, raising their potential productivity over the course of the next year to one-third above normal.

Plant growth does it. A garden or greenhouse becomes 1/3 more efficient in the area of the spell.

>> No.43923961

Are the rules for making a kingdom from ultimate campagin any good?

Could they be modified to involve making a tribe/nomadic society?

>> No.43923969

Also, it says it in the guide. A ceremony from a level 1 Earth cleric: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/ceremony

>Earth: Festival of Soil. The subject can cast plant growth (enrichment) once.

Try looking up the referenced stuff before calling it out.

>> No.43923974

Is Osyluth Guile any good if you are super charisma focused?

>> No.43923979

I'm surprised it took this long for someone to figure this out. I had always suspected no one here actually read any of the rules at all.

>> No.43923997

>spending a feat to gain the privelage to spend your entire turn to make the enemies turn less efficient IF they decide to spend it attacking your AC
I don't know, you tell me?

>> No.43924001

more like no one here actually read the downtime guide at all ohhhhhhhhhhh

>> No.43924010

It still can't be cast by a 1st level Earth Cleric.

It still can't be cast by a Cleric you hire as a Team, you have to pay for each Ceremony casting individually, and it's worded so shittily that the fact that it was even referencing a spell at all wasn't at all obvious.

>> No.43924012

The kingdom building rules are only capable of representing an agricultural society, you might find better luck by taking the caravan rules/feats and refluffing them to work as a nomadic community

>> No.43924017

That could work too. Honestly its a case of "well these rules are really simple and here is a way to abuse the fuck out of them. Or you could just cast blood money/false focus and fabricate."

We get it, some of the game's subsystems are shit. They weren't designed to actually be "optimized" at all.

>> No.43924024


I was thinking of using it when Fighting Defensively, rather than using full defense.

>> No.43924027

>taking the caravan rules/feats and refluffing them to work as a nomadic community
Huh. Didn't know about those. Will look into them. Thanks.

>> No.43924035

Unfortunately they're not very good, but neither are the Kingdom building rules; whichever you pick, you may want to do some tweaking to taste

>> No.43924036

>Are the rules for making a kingdom from ultimate campagin any good?
Have you played Shadowrun? You know how Deckers have their own whole little sub - game they play while everyone else is playing the actual game at hand? Yeah, they're like that. It's great for spreadsheet enthusiasts and isn't at all worth involving at the table itself unless you're ALL spreadsheet enthusiasts.

>Could they be modified to involve making a tribe/nomadic society?
Seeing as they center entirely around the concept of land ownership, in extremely large quantities, and permanent settlements are the entirety of the ruleset, no.

>> No.43924068

Yea I just skimmed them. They really don't seem good at all. It seems like someone went for word count and page count instead of "do these mechanics actually do anything interesting". Ill read some more.

yea I might have to make my own. I have a group of players who want to play a CE orc tribe.

>> No.43924086

Pathfinder, as a branch of D&D, was never really intended to be an economy simulator at any significant level, and most successful games just leave that to the GM and make it fluff rather than crunch. As written, everything you can ever buy is available at any Settlement of a given size if you wait long enough for it, regardless of where you are or what the citizens of that settlement are like, unless GM fiat decides otherwise, so.

At that point, unless your group finds EVE Online fun and engaging, it's best to leave it to the GM to handle.

>> No.43924105

>blood money
>false focus
>wall of stone
>teleportation circle
>traps of create water
>traps of fabricate
Its almost like magic allows you to live in a post-scarcity society if you actually try to.

>> No.43924131

>going full Tippy
If you say so, anon. I like my adventurers to actually have something to meaningfully contribute to the world in some way, since it's entirely possible that everything hasn't already been done before they show up in worlds less than ten thousand years old like Golarion.

>> No.43924136

I'm less concerned about economy and more concerned about governance

>> No.43924165


I agree that the downtime rules are more suited for games wherein the entire group is strongly invested in the downtime subsystem and actively wishes to participate in it and, just like the rest of the game, agrees on a level of optimization for it.

In a Pathfinder game I was once to GM for some members of /pfg/ itself (I had to switch to another system because I could not stand Pathfinder from a GMing perspective), one of the major conflicts between the players and me was that one of the players wanted to heavily utilize the downtime subsystem to fund the party. For whatever reason, the entire group balked when I proposed that everyone received a bonus feat and that that feat could be spent to access the downtime subsystem (much like how one would normally spend a feat to finance the group with Craft Wondrous Item).

I must have handled that situation the wrong way, because there were plenty of hurt feelings as a result of that, and there was no clear solution.

>> No.43924171

That is exaclty my point. While theoretically possible, the tippyverse is boring as fuck and really hard to actually play in.

>> No.43924187

Ok, so the ultimate campaing rules suck and the caravan rules suck. Time to make my own rules so my players can actually have a tribe of ___ that is interesting to rule over. How did actual tribal societys exist? What did they do?

>> No.43924188

Modern production techniques allow us to greatly outproduce what we consume. Less than 15% of our population is necessary to create our food, clothes, shelter, energy etc.

But we all still work because its a good way of keeping us in line and keeping things the way they are.

Wizards don't want people to stop being servile, so of course they wont end scarcity. Clerics want people to turn to the gods and that won't happen if people have their needs adequately provided for and fulfilling lives. Nobody wants to put an end to feudalism because it works great the same way today nobody wants to move on from capitalism. Room for improvement? Don't be silly! Things are great for the people at the top right now!

>> No.43924196

New thread:

>> No.43924199

Well i would imagine there was more than one way to run a small society that lacked advanced technology or ideas.

Some were nomads, many were agricultural and some were hunter gatherers. Its really more about where you are than who you are.

>> No.43924232

>agrees on a level of optimization for it.
It works fantastically if you don't let them use it to break WBL in half or force them to invest profits back into their business. I'm in a game now where I'm a Wizard that does nothing but play with the subsystem and craft stuff for the party (I can only play by post rather than jump into roll20 for scheduling reasons), with some divination and Knowledge skills mostly for plot convenience purposes. I'm not going full autism with it (Horns of Plenty, etc) and we haven't gone too far yet but I make magic items for the party at half market price - the same cost to them, who engage in combat, as they would if one of them burnt the feat on it instead of me - and they only cost me a quarter of market price to make. The other quarter goes into the business, which serves mostly as a home base for the party.

Right now it's little more than a crafting and storage area, but I did hire some simple Soldiers to watch over it and keep common rabble from being a problem while I make stuff, and I plan to make it a mighty fortress and command center from which the party will plan and recover from their adventures in relative safety.

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