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/tg/ - Traditional Games

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>> No.43652415

First for sad thumb

>> No.43652492

Mont'ka soon, Gue'la.



>> No.43652538



>> No.43652584


>> No.43652605

So I just realized something as I fielded Heldrakes in my army: why are those of us who are complaining about how weak Chaos is, not fielding Heldrakes? Go field as many Heldrakes as possible!

>> No.43652667

Heldrakes aren't god-tier anymore.
Plus SOME people don't like that you have to spam one unit to keep an army afloat

>> No.43652751

IMO all it would take to make the orkanauts viable is pic related and making them superheavys. having a melee one and a dakka one would make so much more sense, orks don't do jack of all trades well and thats how it feels the nauts are built like... im not asking for much :(

>> No.43652764

Yes.. Yes... More heldrakes

>> No.43652787

One strong unit does not a strong codex make.

Chaos players would rather have a variety of decently strong stuff to choose from than having just 1 really strong unit they then have to spam.

One day, they might get that wish.

who am I kidding of course they won't, jobber Chaos gotta job

>> No.43652802

The weird thing is they're clearly intended to be something akin to an Imperial Knight (only shitter and cheaper because Orks), they even had an Orkanaught v Imperial Knight battle in the WD in which the Orkanaughts were released.

I can't remember too accurately, but I'm pretty sure the Orkanaughts got their asses handed to them.

>> No.43652863

Someone doesn't like Heldrakes.

Players shouldn't be forced to buy minis they don't want just because that's the only almost good unit they have.

Also, they are not that good anymore, and they are extremely predictable (being the only good thing in the codex), so enemy players will counter it hard.

>> No.43652873

Has the imperium ever used skimmer tanks?

>> No.43652891

In the past, yes.

>> No.43652913

The rumours indicate that Chaos will be getting a complete overhaul and will probably be made strong as fuck.

That and every single update post Necrons has been strong as fuck.

Yes despite all this you keep up the "Chaos a always shit hurr" thing even though you are probably going to get a badass update.

I dunno man, I'm starting to think that if Chaos get a good update loads of people will drop the faction since they can't whinge anymore.

>> No.43652943

CSM players don't want to be OP at all cost.
They want to have fluffy options and some solid choices.

CSM players won't be satisfied by being the stronger race in the game if they still don't have access to things like Legion differentiation, a good amount of choices and good units to choose from.
You know, like any other faction.

>> No.43652990

Dude if everything is really strong then it's piss easy to field fluffy armies.

I agree with you on the legion stuff.

And no, at this point I would say that CSM players would be perfectly happy with being able to field an army that isnt just shot off the board in a couple of turns. Everything else is secondary at that point.

>> No.43653003

reposting from last thread

so with brotherhood of psykers/zoanthrope broods, are there units that have both mastery and BoP?
my friend has a squad of 3 zoanthropes, and he says a squad ( of one) has a mastery level of two, and adding additional zoans increases it's mastery level. so is BoP a sum total of the individual units mastery levels or is it a flat amount for a squad regardless of model count?

a concerned warp blast target

>> No.43653034

What is the general consensus about using forge-world rules for "normal stuff" e.g. Leman Russ Annihilator - twin linked lascannon turret.

Would most people be ok with this? Want to test the water before I buy all the bits.

>> No.43653039

People choose Chaos for the lore.

It just feel terrible to read and love a Legion like Night Lords or Iron Warriors but being just a different colour scheme on the field.
Or playing a Cult Legion like Death Guard, forcning yourself to play with only one mark, and feeling that is only a self inflicted punishment while other faction have tactics and detachment to express that (like Space Marines) or very thematic formations (like Eldar) to support your preference.

CSM will always feel like a race GW doesn't care if they threat it like nothing they care about doesn't matter.
There are other weak factions, like Orks and Dark Eldars, but those just feel weak. Like they just need an update to the codex and that's it.

CSM just feel wrong.

>> No.43653084

given how the major focus of 40k is just imperium vs chaos and everyone else is kind of a side show, this is a bit of a shit go on GW's part

>> No.43653085

Jokes on you, I don't even play Chaos!


>> No.43653090

Brotherhood of psykers have a preset mastery level, usually 1, zoanthropes have 2 though; no unit increase their mastery level depending on number of members, maybe just pink horrors but I don't remember exactly, sure as hell zoanthropes, as other normal BoPs, don't.

Increasing the number of zoanthropes in a brood only increases the number of total warp blast shots cast by the unit each time the power passes: 1 warp blast for every zoanthrope.

>> No.43653111

ahh, thankyou. one last question- after manifesting warp blast, the zoanthrope still has to fire with it's BS to hit, right?

>> No.43653113

>The rumours indicate that Chaos will be getting a complete overhaul

>> No.43653120

I assume it's a witchfire power so yes.

>> No.43653135

Yes, it's a witchfire after all.

>> No.43653155

Looking at starting a heavily fluffy Nurgle CSM army. Not wanting to pull anything cheesy or bend rules and stuff, and certainly not that obsessed with winning.

I've been pissing around with a list on Battlescribe and it's unfinished, was hoping someone could tell me what to do, what not to do with it

+++ Nurgle (1483pts) +++

+ HQ (405pts) +

Chaos Lord (140pts) [Burning Brand of Skalanthrax (30pts), Mark of Nurgle (15pts), Power Armour, Sigil of corruption (25pts), Veterans of the Long War (5pts), Warlord]

Daemon Prince (265pts) [Nurgle (15pts), Power Armour (20pts), The Black Mace (45pts), Wings (40pts)]

+ Troops (850pts) +

Plague Marines (270pts) [Chaos Rhino (35pts), 2x Flamer (10pts), 7x Plague Marine (168pts), Veteran of the long war (8pts)] (this one hangs about with the Chaos Lord, hence flamers)

Plague Marines (290pts) [Chaos Rhino (35pts), 7x Plague Marine (168pts), 2x Plasma Gun (30pts), Veteran of the long war (8pts)]

Plague Marines (290pts) [Chaos Rhino (35pts), 7x Plague Marine (168pts), 2x Plasma Gun (30pts), Veteran of the long war (8pts)]

+ Heavy Support (228pts) +

Obliterators (228pts) [Mark of Nurgle (18pts), 3x Obliterator (210pts)]

Sorry about the formatting, and don't forget it's a serious work in progress and unfinished! Cheers /tg/

>> No.43653197

forgot something

>> No.43653275

Whoever did the op has an old version of the reference sheet. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/blog/597998.page

>> No.43653304


Remember the days when T5 Obliterators were the worst thing people had to worry about in 40k?

>> No.43653352

>Protip Zoanthrope aren't good, don't take 3

>> No.43653376


>> No.43653383


Where were all of you when Imperium was kill?

>> No.43653492

same with the Land Raider. They all say how crappy the LR is... it is the worst unit ever, it cost so many points, it is sooooooo shitty, the Loyalists have SOOOO much better LRs like some effing magnitudes of better and Chaos has a bad Dex and thus everything is shitty and never field a LR...
But it still has the best armour values, it has fucking twin linked Lascannons and the enemy has to DEAL with it somehow - while being zoomed by a Heldrake and scattered by Havocs.
These players expect CSM to be Space Marine comparable but they aren't.
I will also field many, many CSM as troops and guess what: mimimi they are sooo expensive and they are shitty and they have no ATSKNF and the close combat weapon costs whopping 2 points and mimimi

>> No.43653580

Is that still legal?
It wasn't present in the last Apocalypse book.

>> No.43653671

>Has to deal with it somehow

Yeah, by drop pod assaulting grav centurions/devastators next to it and shooting it off the board turn one.

>> No.43653702

>not posting better version

>> No.43653722

My opponent mopes when I use Heldrakes.

>> No.43653739

i think it's in valedor or the other apoc type book. it does bring up a point since there's a few superheavies that never got updated like the silver tower of tzeentch

>> No.43653774


If there's anything worse than the whiny chaos players, its the deluded ones

>> No.43653778

Heldrakes just aren't that great. They're good, but not nearly enough to carry the book, nor good enough (to my mind) to justify filling Fast Attack with them. Anything with Skyfire will pop them fast, not to mention that if they jink they can't shoot usefully.

>> No.43653796

What a horrible way of dealing with a bloody land raider.

Just drop pod sternguard if you want anti tank on demand.

>> No.43653824

The point is that it's unlikely that Land Raider's gonna live to see turn two.

>> No.43653839

Now is your chance! 30k is the best representation of the legions you could hope for! Night Lords are very well represented! Chocolate bunnies everywhere! Purge them!

>> No.43653919

The model looks god awful. Looks like a fucking transformer toy. And FW has some better shit with better rules and better models anyway.

>> No.43653923

>The rumours indicate that Chaos will be getting a complete overhaul
>and will probably be made strong as fuck.
I don't know which of these claims is funnier. Chaos is Daemonkin now. Best the core book can hope for is a quick update with some formations and an FOC

>> No.43653935

>That and every single update post Necrons has been strong as fuck.
Khorne Daemonkin were post Necrons and they suck balls and none of the skub-tier units were updated. Infact, no units at all were updated apart from new Bloodthirster variants.

>> No.43653970

>Or playing a Cult Legion like Death Guard, forcning yourself to play with only one mark
desu, barring Khorne cult, lists can be fairly strong.

and if you want to be fluffy with a legion list than modelling marks on units becomes tricky

>> No.43653984

I love me a mechanised army. Thoughts?

Imperial Guard 1000 points

(Warlord) Commissar Yarrick (145 points

Veterans (120 points)
- (X3) Plasma gun
- Carapace armour

Veterans (120 points)
- (X3) Plasma gun
- Carapace armour

Veterans (105 points)
- (X2) Meltagun
- Heavy Flamer
- Carapace armour

Veterans (105 points)
- (X2) Meltagun
- Heavy Flamer
- Carapace armour

Chimera (65 points)
- Multilaser
- Heavy Flamer

Leman Russ Eradicator (145 points)
- Dozer blade
- Heavy Bolter sponsons

>> No.43653995

>Chaos is Daemonkin now
Since when, a shitty cash-grab?

>> No.43654028

More likely that Daemonkin was a way to give rules for new 'Thirsters, and test-play what they're thinking about doing with the new chaos codices when they come out.

>> No.43654038

>chaos is daemonkind

get this loyalist out of here

aren't they based on some ancient myth? ziz as the heldrake, leviathan as maulerfiend, and the forgefiend as behemoth

>> No.43654041

Anyone to help Papa Nurgle?

>> No.43654066

Khorne Daemonkin are fine, they didn't get updated units, but the formations are solid. Khorne Daemonkin was winning more than Tau before their 7th, if that provides any context.

>> No.43654079

That fucking glorious feel...

>Suffer Not the Unclean to Live
>Uphold the Honour of the Emperor
>Abhor the Witch. Destroy the Witch
>Accept Any Challenge, No Matter the Odds

>> No.43654105

>With CSM

for what purpose

>> No.43654112

I'd drop all the crap-ass armor and exchange yarrick for a tank commander. d3 rerollable chance of getting the outflanking trait is bretty gud.

>> No.43654117


>that feel when I have to put up with your chinga ass crying about the fact that BT don't have their own codex in this thread very soon

>> No.43654124

the heldrake is cool as shit, but it would have been much better with a tail.

>> No.43654129


I'll settle for chapter tactics... for now.

>> No.43654148

i just... what? chaos does better at assault then shooting or psychic powers

>> No.43654195

The the armour on the melta squads.
Only two special weapons per chimera.
If you're going to use an eradicator give it a stubber and heavy bolter sponsons.
Maybe use the spare points for a divination psyker.

>> No.43654212 [SPOILER] 

>aren't they based on some ancient myth? ziz as the heldrake, leviathan as maulerfiend, and the forgefiend as behemothot quite...

>> No.43654222

*drop the armour the on melta squad
Maybe just use a normal commissar.
If you want to expand on that Bullgryns for their cover bonus, camo on the vehicles and a tank commander in a melt-down tank.

>> No.43654244

>More likely that Daemonkin was a way to give rules for new 'Thirsters
WD published rules for the new Thirsters that can be used as part of the Daemon codex

>but the Gorepack is solid.

>> No.43654261

>Chaos is daemonkin now

Literally who the fuck believes this?

>> No.43654299

>Tau: Here have this awesome formation that probably gets free markerlight hits and uses three of the best units in your codex
>IG: Here have an infantry platoon with sentinels

All smiles

>> No.43654308

Imagine if the other half of Mont'ka was a Tau styled update to Imperial Guard.

>> No.43654324


No, vets can have 3 special if they don't take the HF
And the commissar can't be the mandatory HQ, and don't synergise with the vets, while Yarrick can give orders and is nearly decent in assault.

Fuck no, bullgryns won't give that much cover, and are way to much overpriced.

>> No.43654329

That'd be swell.
It's not going to happen though

>> No.43654360

No, I remember when an unkillable Baharroth would get into combat with one side of my battleline and then consolidate into each of my units, gaining attacks as they went though.

It was sad times.

>> No.43654379

Heh heh heh

>> No.43654380

Baharroth was good once?

He's the only Phoenix Lord I wouldn't ever consider taking even in a fluffy game.

>> No.43654389

Just go with a tank commander for your hq. A vet squad with yarrick will get rekt by anything remotely tailored for cc, unlike a 40+ man platoon with priest(s) which is where he wants to be.

>> No.43654391

How come? I'm not aware of GW's plans but wouldn't it be possible that they intend to update the IG codex?

>> No.43654396


That's a big eye.

>> No.43654402

If I took it off, would he die?

>> No.43654407


It would be extremely painful...

>> No.43654419

They are going to update the IG codex. Its going to have some new art. Thats it.

>> No.43654428


I'm not the one who posted the list, i wasn't saying yarrick was better than a tank commander in this list, just that putting a simple commissar would be even more worthless. Of course you should nearly always avoid CC with vets.

>> No.43654451

Why would they change any existing rules? For what purpose?

>> No.43654477

i guess gw is either getting lazy or they're feeling the books are decent enough but their actual changes belong to formations

>> No.43654560

>or they're feeling the books are decent enough
You wish, they are going to re-print the Tyranids with the Leviathan Detachment and the already existing formations, I feel it in me bones...

>> No.43654578

For you

>> No.43654629

No, I mean why would you assault with base CSM? Even if you kit them out for melee with MoK, Icon of Wrath, etc, they're less effective berserkers, and berserkers aren't all that great either.

>> No.43654700

4 u

>> No.43654740


>> No.43654753

formations in a new book, plastic enginseer

it's enough to start getting worried

>> No.43654754

He said they were going to update it, he never said when. Obviously they are going to update it at some point.

>> No.43654891

Tbh. IG don't need massive changes.

But, until it happens, calm your tits.

IG do need formations, this is a fact. Do they need a massive change? I don't think so. Only things needing a change in my eyes are Penal Platoons.

>> No.43654910


>> No.43654924


They need auto-pass orders in some formations or something, give it a meme name that you meme loving fucks enjoy like 'Tactical Genius' formation' or something.

>> No.43654968

Nah it'll be something like "The Emperor's Hindsight" or something.

>> No.43655010

Any Tau players know if the Forgeworld battlesuits or drones are any good?

>> No.43655028

>I have no sentinels to take advantage of that dank new formation that we don't know what it does yet.
>Those vulnerable as fuck heavy weapon squads.

>> No.43655038

Ig needs better stats for their tanks. The weapons are fine but russes die so quickly. You get a shot off or two with your MBC and then get wrecked by the massive amount of Ignore cover, reduce armour, and shooting at rear fuckery that exists. Making them MCs would balance them

>> No.43655055


>play IG
>don't have any sentinels

>> No.43655061


Remora is the best Tau flyer available right now.

>> No.43655082

what about another hull point and additional rear armor? Maybe giving it an armor save.

I'm a piece of shit who runs 2 vendettas and a vulture.

>> No.43655093


Y'Vahra and R'varna are pretty cheese.

>> No.43655104

>a vulture.

do you at least use the too cool for school dual punisher setup?

>> No.43655116

I always thought russes should have more HP then all these skimmers flying around. They dont have to keep the weight down on a russ so their hull integrity should be stronger. Much like the landraider.

>> No.43655126


Worth the money in you guys opinions?

>> No.43655128

you fuckin know it.

I agree, or at least give them an armor save, seeing as they're pretty well armored.

>> No.43655142

China man it.

Buddy got a very good cast of a Nirvana for something like $25 usd

>> No.43655152


Based, Which is the better suit Y'Vahra or R'varna I only want one for my army

>> No.43655161

Rule question: Can Assault Squads charge on the same turn as they disembark from a Drop Pod?

>> No.43655188


There's a formation to allow them to do it though.

>> No.43655203

1848 points


Farseer - 160 points
-Shard of Anaris
-Singing Spear
-Skyrunner Eldar Jetbike

Warlock Conclave - 50 points
-Skyrunner Eldar Jetbike


6 Windriders - 162 points
-Scatter Lasers

5 Windriders - 135 points
-Scatter Lasers

3 Windriders - 81 points
-Scatter Lasers

---Fast Attack---

Vyper Squadron - 50 points
-Two Shuriken Cannons

---Lords of War---

2x Wraithknights - 295 x 2 = 590 points
-Ghostglaives and Scattershields

2x Wraithknights - 310 x 2 = 620 points
-Scatter Lasers
This list is the most dangerous list having gone undefeated in tournaments. Today lets have some fun; lets figure out how to specifically beat this list. We try doing different factions everyday for the next few days. Mutli-CADs and Allied Detachments all allowed as long as they stay within the rules. Starting today with...Chaos Space Marines.

Now I know that Chaos Space Marines aren't all that powerful in this edition. But they have some cool things. How would the Slaaneshi Chaos Lord + Slaaneshi Chaos Bikes fair against the Eldar Jetbikes? How effective are sonic weapons on Jetbikes/Wraithknights? Yeah the Heldrakes were nerfed, but what about the cheaper point cost-wise but stronger Hell Talons? What about other Forge World stuff like the Dreadnoughts, heavy tanks, and artillery?

>> No.43655207

Got a Chapter Traits question;
For Red Scorpions, the only thing you get is Vet. Sergeants are now Apothecaries, right?
I couldn't find any other stuff for them on the web, does this stay the same if I wanted to run them in 7th edition?

>> No.43655216

Depends what do you want. The R'varna is slow but can fire 2-4 Large Blasts at high strength, the size of the models hit by them determine how many hits they take (MC for example take 3 hits form the blast)

Y'vahra is fast, but it has to get close to the enemy but it really fucks up vehicles

>> No.43655246

>why would you assault with base CSM?

Because CSM are actually not bad at assaulting non-melee units and tying them up for a few turns, preventing them from moving away or shooting your more important things, and can still do this when called upon while also shooting reasonably well and holding an objective before this is necessary. They can also charge a unit, soak up the Overwatch, and then allow a better CC unit to charge them without having to worry about getting shot to pieces.

They're a multi-role trooper that does okay at everything, but doesn't excel at anything, which is why they "suck" according to the internet.

>berserkers aren't all that great either.

They're pretty damned good assault troops. The problem is getting them from Point A to Point B.

>> No.43655247

>Infact, no units at all were updated apart from new Bloodthirster variants.
GW kind of wanted you to buy the new Bloodthirster models.

>> No.43655251

This is my meta of current active players

>Slaanesh Demons / Ad-Mech
>Dark Eldar
>Militarum Tempestus / Guard
>Dark Angels
>Grey Knight
>Khorne Daemonkin / Raven Guard
>Raven Guard
>Iron Hands
>Nids / Dark Eldar (Never Show Up though)


>> No.43655282

>They're pretty damned good assault troops. The problem is getting them from Point A to Point B
Why not use a metal box to shove the bezerkers in while blobs of cultists protect the metal box?

>> No.43655318

My meta consists of

>Space Wolves
>Orks x3
>Dark Angels
>Iron Hands/Eldar
>Tau empire x3
>Dark Eldar

It's funny because no one in my meta plays Necrons or Tyranids.

>> No.43655345

>No Nids
The Tau players scared them off most likely. No need for the Hive Mind to fool around with Ghostkeels, and Stormsurges. Still don't know how the Ghostkeel jams iron sights and daemons' thermal vision for souls.

>> No.43655346

Hey guys I play Space Wolves and Orks ( there on hold for the mean time) and I've been looking at the Skitarii/Cult mechanicus, how do they differ from each other in play style?

>> No.43655352


Cheers mane

>> No.43655363

So what do you think of the formations in Kauyon ?

>> No.43655383

Haha probably but I think nobody plays them because they are on the slightly expensive side, plus the tau and Eldar/ork players are fucking killing each other for the past week now.

>> No.43655384

>2 LoW
u wot m80

>> No.43655392

>Doesn't know you can field multiple WKs due to retarded rules
Nigga what are you doing?

>> No.43655405

Could anyone recommend an army with:

>Less than 50 models at 1000 pts
>Mostly shooty
>Not extremely transport reliant (I dont want 6 rhinos)

So far I am looking at Necrons and Ultramarines.

Spacewolves look cool but I am not sure how reliant they are on transport.

Tau look fun but seem pretty unpopular for matches.

The mechanicus and skitarri or whatever look amazing but I hear books like them are only supported for an edition or too.

Which army fits ~75% of my request? What is the best way to start that army?

>> No.43655438

>not mentioning you were using that detachment type

i mean, i should have guessed, i just don't play against eldar, because they dont exist in my meta.

fucking space elves man

>> No.43655452


Necrons or Iron Hands with Thunderfire cannons

Necrons you can run Warrior Blobs or 10 man squads in ghost arcs and basicly A-Move forward.

Iron Hands are SMs with 6+ FNP and Thunderfire cannons are 60 in str6 barrage 4 guns

>> No.43655464


>no Tau
>no CW Eldar

>> No.43655467


Looks like Decurion w/ Scat Pack core and 2 WK aux

>> No.43655510

>Eldar and Tau mudering each other

>> No.43655538


Did babby lose to csm? Or you actually play csm and win with LR and csm troops? You must be playing some sad sad meta dude

>> No.43655545


My playgroup has:

Dark Angels (Ravenwing)
KDK Gorepack

We are hoping to get our ork friend to start playing again too.

Last night I got to borrow some marine bikes and proxy an interrogator champion to play a 500 point game.

Interrogator-Chaplain (160pts)
Mace of Redemption, Space Marine Bike

Ravenwing Command Squad (120pts)
3x Black Knight

Fast Attack (220pts)

Ravenwing Bike Squad (105pts)
2x Meltagun
Ravenwing Sergeant

Ravenwing Bike Squad (115)
2x Grav Gun
Ravenwing Sergeant

TOTAL: 500

It went pretty well, I tabled 500 points of tyranids but got my butt kicked by Necrons.

Then we played Maelstrom a 1500 game and I brought the 500 pt list with the Ultramarines 1000 pt list against 1500 pts of Necrons and won by two Victory Points.

>> No.43655624

Don't talk like this, this is /tg/, not /pol/ or /v/ or /int/.

We might have fallen far since 2010, but this is still /tg/ and I demand we act like officers.

>> No.43655652

>no Blood Angels

Not having Tau or Eldar means nothing if BA, Nids and Ork players don't exist.

It still shows power level faggotry.

>> No.43655666

>Maybe giving it an armor save.
giving tanks saves would help a lot

I'm not sure why they didn't do add it in at the same time they gave them wound-points

>> No.43655669

Every single online resource and chaos space marine player disagrees with you.

Even with the drop pod assault formation where they assault on deep strike, they still fucking suck.

And their is a reason nobody brings base CSM. It's because they suck. Plague marines get brought for their sturdiness, cultists are brought for their cheap cost. Nobody brings shit-tier CSM because the options blow, they're expensive, and they bring nothing that cant be accomplished by cultists or plague marines.
Also, to anyone who believes the new codex is going to be anything but another remarkably disappointing mess of reprinted text, you're fucking stupid.

I've seen plaid with less of a holding pattern then uninspired chaos codexes. Seriously, how many more times are we going to be suckered into another edition of daemon prince, plague marine, obliterator, and the fast attack choice of the edition(heldrake now, bikes last time).

>> No.43655675

What would happen if Blood Angels became good on the TT?

>> No.43655695

they become FotM

The fast vindicators and troop assault marines were one of the better armies at the time.

>> No.43655697

Minus the decurion necron and we might have a game worth playing!

>> No.43655701


>Tfw Space Marines, Elder, Chaos and Tau are muscling everyone else out of the game in my local scene

>> No.43655745

>no eldars
>no tau
Boring ppls.

>> No.43655865

well, good that Eldar on Bikes with a witch don't have Grav Centurions in drop pods

>> No.43655870

Faction of the month?

>> No.43655924

So literally anyone can go and win? Great.

>> No.43655927


>> No.43656023

Tactical squad sergeants are the only ones who can be an apothecary, if that's what you are asking.

>> No.43656024

>Inquisitors report 271-A. Berserkers spotted in this so called "Daemonkind" resurgence have been known to run with their arms behind their back. It is currently unknown why they do this but I believe that it is either due to an influence by orks to run faster or homage to an ancient god Sanic Hejjihoggu. It is also believed that other chaos marines see this as "uncool" but unlikely that other chaos members would call them on this as the individual berserker would react rather badly.

>> No.43656063

Are the "new" Tau codex floating around anywhere?

>> No.43656067

I was close.

>> No.43656070


>Ignores that quarter of the place is Marines

So only your top army is allowed?

>> No.43656091

My sides, Anon.

>> No.43656097

piggybacking off of that one, I'm also thinking of going Red Scorpions: do I give the tactical squads meltas/combi-meltas or plasmas/combi-plasmas? Assuming they'll either be footslogging or using rhinos because I fucking hate drop pod spam.

>> No.43656110

There are multiple DE players there.

Just because it doesn't have the three absolute shit tier factions doesn't mean it's competitive you sperg.

>> No.43656112

>Every single online resource and chaos space marine player disagrees with you

No they don't. While they're by no means a great choice, they're not absolute garbage. It's absolutely true that Cult troops are better for specific roles (and Noise Marines > Plague Marines at least 3/4 of the time) and Cultists are cheap, Marines are more flexible than Cultists at taking on MEQ, especially since, unlike loyalists, they can get a CCW for dirt cheap and marks/icons can make even a basic squad quite effective in combat.

That said, I run Noise Marines as troops, but I have had not-shitty results with Marines themselves. They're okay, they're just not miracle workers by any definition, and good at presenting enough of a credible threat to most targets to merit having fire focused on them instead of more valuable targets, and those who ignore them for the more valuable targets can find them to still pack more of a punch than they expect them to.

They could really, really use a buff, and most Cult choices are better (Cultists are only better if you're simply trying to fill out the troop requirements, as they get deleted pretty goddamn fast by anything with a blast template) but they are still usable if you don't expect miracles from them.

>> No.43656131

It depends. What do you want to counter? What's prevalent in your meta?

>> No.43656169

Has anyone ever found an artefact or a piece of technology made by the Old Ones?

>> No.43656185

Yeah, I did. But I moved and I don't know where it is anymore. :/

>> No.43656214


>> No.43656219

Well, how would this work against the Scatbike host + Wraith Constructs cheese list?

1850 points


Daemon Prince - 340 points
-Daemon of Nurgle
-Psyker Mastery Level 3
-The Black Mace
-Power Armor


13 Chaos Cultists with 1 Cultist Champion - 66 points

12 Chaos Cultists with 1 Cultist Champion - 62 points

---Fast Attack---

3x Hell Talons - 190 x 3 = 570 points
-Helstorm Autocannon
-Warp-Pulse Bombs


Mutilator - 61 points
-Mark of Nurgle

Mutilator - 61 points
-Mark of Nurgle

---Heavy Support---

3x Chaos Fire Raptor Gunships - 230 x 3 = 690 points
-Reaper Autocannon Batteries
-Armoured Ceramite
So what I realized is that the Eldar cheese lacks true anti-air. So we got ourselves a flying Daemon Prince for an HQ, bombers for fast attack, and gunships for heavy support. The Mutilators are there because the only way to really hit the scatbikes hard is something that surprises, so in other words deep-striked units. Scatbikes are still made of paper ultimately, and if powerful melee like the Mutilators are deep-striked it may be able to do enough Scatbike damage so the flying units will hopefully be done with Wraithknights and eventually help out with Scatbikes. Cultists there cuz mandatory troop choices and they still make for great meat shields.

>> No.43656238

Imperium and Eldar have. Blackstone Fortresses.

>> No.43656257

Also maybe Farsight's sword. But people have like... opinions about that and shit.

>> No.43656281

I'm gonna be allying with my Grey Knights so I guess what my army needs is AP2 and AP1. Dreadknights pretty much handle anything with a 4+ save, and all the force weapons help with MEQ. But I'm not sure whether melta is a good idea since I won't be unloading out of drop pods right next to tanks...

>> No.43656283

I can't find any online resource to back your claim that nilla marines in the chaos dex are anything other than a pointsink.
Sure the cultists aren't going to be battering down the door of a MEQ squad, but you've got 100+ points to throw around in comparison to the cost of the ten man tac squad. An obliterator would do nicely in removing the tacs once they get through the cultist speedbump. Whereas nillas would just get ground into the dust. Look at it from a point per point perspective, yes they are a point or so cheaper and can trade the bolter for CC or buy one to be equivalent, but they still lack the formations loyalist marines have(Which makes them worth taking, free transports go a long way), they lack any form of synergy or buffing from allies, and lastly, most importantly, one bad combat and they're all dead.

If a flyrant crashlands into a tac squad, they have good odds of holding it down indefinitely or bailing and shooting it. If it charges a nilla squad, they're fucking toast.

Noizboiz are super fun though. 3/4 of the time though? Nah bruh. Five man objective holders with double specials is where it's at. Don't use the entire drawer of ignore cover guns with i5 when you can have five smelly assholes cover it.

>> No.43656284


I thought those were of Necron origin.

>> No.43656296

What do you have against drop pods?

>> No.43656311

I think the mutilator strategy will be hard to pull off. The bikes will just move, shoot you, move again before your next turn comes around for you to charge.

>> No.43656312

Old Ones. They were anti-C'tan weapons, but most are destroyed and or in Abaddon's motor pull.

>> No.43656325

Blackstone Fortresses are of Eldar origin, at least in legend.

It's stated that Vaul created them as weapons against the Ctan, specifically the Void Dragon.

Trazyn staff is rumored to contain reverse engineered Old Ones technology.

>> No.43656327


Does FailAddon even know how it works?

>> No.43656335

Cultists are cheap, but for a same price a squad of guardsmen can do better, and the support guardsmen have access to is a lot better and cheaper than what cultists can get. Guard also have access to transports, as where cultists either have to hijack a rhino or else buy a heavy support landraider (why would anyone do this?). Cultists have potential to do a lot, but it is very hard to harness that potential, so their only real reliable use is a cheap scoring unit.

Berserkers are way overpriced for what they do.

Noise marines are good sometimes if you need access to both FNP and Fearless, or if you want the Slaaneshi weapons.

Plague Marines are as you say, often worse than Noise Marines

Thousand Sons are the sort weird one as they've always been.

Regular CSM are kind of mediocre unless you start giving them upgrades. Then they can get as expensive as the Cult Troops.

Possessed and Chosen are underrated I think, but that is still a ton of points for a single wound MEQ. Both of them are kind of glass cannon-y and usually get taken out really fast because the enemy knows they are expensive. If their only use is as a speedbump, there are cheaper, faster, and more durable speedbumps in the form of Chaos Spawn.

>> No.43656349



>> No.43656372

He's used one before, and probably used parts of the destroyed ones for Planet Killer.

>> No.43656375

Well, that's where the chaos cultists hopefully do there job as meatshield charging their enemy. Will still probably be tough to pull off though this is where math-hammer ends and real in game tactics begin.

He's been retconned to not be a failure anymore guys. I know, he's still my least favorite Sons of Horus/Black Legion and Mournival character, but he ain't technically Failbaddon anymore.

>> No.43656381

>all vehicles get a 4+ armour save against weapons that are not ap 1 or 2
Will this fix people taking weapons to glace stuff to death or just make missile launcher even more useless?

>> No.43656428

wouldn't just increasing hull points weaken glancing, and encourage use of penetrating?

>> No.43656439

you apparently dont play Orks very often, your tanks are fine

>> No.43656455


>> No.43656463

I'd probably just remove hull-points. I don't really understand why it was necesary.

>> No.43656472

But the strategic table in the rulebook gives 3 units outflank instead of d3..

>> No.43656482

>He's been retconned to not be a failure anymore guys

There was never a retcon, polly. People just didn't know how to read and thought that the crusades were about taking Cadia/Terra which was never true in old or new fluff.

He used them to destroy planets and a star.

>> No.43656495

I don't know. I just don't want to end up like the other SM player at my store who has had to buy, build, and paint 6 of them for his army. I just don't find spam/redundancy appealing. Same reason I'm waiting for a codex update on Dark Eldar because I don't want to buy/build/paint 6+ Venoms. I'd prefer to footslog marines but people keep telling me that's instant death even if they're in 10-man squads, and hey at least I have two rhinos from a long time ago.

>> No.43656514

No rhinos, so chimeras it is....

+++ Templars + Guard (800pts) +++

++ Space Marines: Codex (2015) (Combined Arms Detachment) (420pts) ++

+ (No Category) +

Chapter Tactics * [Black Templars]

+ HQ (140pts) +

The Emperor's Champion (140pts)

+ Troops (217pts) +

Crusader Squad (128pts)
····Initiate [Chainsword]
····Initiate [Chainsword]
····Initiate [Chainsword]
····Initiate [Chainsword]
····Initiate [Chainsword]
····Initiate with Special Weapon [Boltgun, Flamer]
····Sword Brother [Bolt Pistol, Power Axe]

Crusader Squad (89pts)
····Initiate [Chainsword]
····Initiate [Chainsword]
····Initiate [Chainsword]
····Initiate [Chainsword]
····Initiate [Chainsword]
····Initiate with Special Weapon [Boltgun, Flamer]

+ Fast Attack (63pts) +

Bike Squad (63pts)
····Biker Sergeant [Bolt Pistol]
····Space Marine Biker [Bolt Pistol]
····Space Marine Biker [Bolt Pistol]

++ Astra Militarum: Codex (2014) (Allied Detachment) (380pts) ++

+ HQ (75pts) +

Company Command Squad (75pts) [Flak Armour, Veteran w/ Lasgun]
····Company Commander [Close Combat Weapon, Flak Armour, Laspistol, Orders]
····Veteran Autocannon Team [Lasgun]
····Veteran w/ Vox-caster [Lasgun]

+ Troops (305pts) +

Infantry Platoon (305pts)
····Infantry Squad [Autocannon Team, 5x Guardsman, Guardsman w/ Grenade Launcher, Guardsman w/ Vox-caster]
········Chimera [Dozer Blade, Heavy Bolter, Multi-laser]
········Sergeant [Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol]
····Infantry Squad [Autocannon Team, 6x Guardsman, Guardsman w/ Grenade Launcher]
········Chimera [Dozer Blade, Heavy Bolter, Multi-laser]
········Sergeant [Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol]
····Platoon Command Squad [4x Guardsman w/ Lasgun]
········Platoon Commander [Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol, Orders]

>> No.43656520

>I can't find any online resource to back your claim that nilla marines in the chaos dex are anything other than a pointsink

That is because the internet takes memes to the extreme. If something isn't really good, it's "absolute garbage," and most lists are tailored around a very specific threat and/or a very specific strategy, and bring appropriate forces to match them (I personally spam Noise Marines, because 4 6-man squads with a Blastmaster and Doom Siren each is fucking brutal to goddamn anything under AV13), therefore they go either Cultists or Cults, and Cultists are only chosen to meet minimum troops requirements or as a giant tarpit (though this can backfire in high-template metas).

Marines can be taken with moderate upgrades (When I run them, I run 2 Melta/Flamer, MoS, VotLW) and be relatively cheap (because everything is overpriced in this codex, even Cultists) while not immediately folding over when something more powerful than a Lasgun is pointed in their direction.

>Five man objective holders with double specials is where it's at.

Not really, no. Sonic Weapons > Specials, and Plague Marines can't fire Overwatch and have a low Initiative, so anything assaulting them that's even moderately decked for CC will usually get at least a few of them down before they are able to hit back. They're also largely immobile, so good luck trying to redeploy them more than 6" away (NM aren't much better at that, but they can at least run). You can bring Rhinos, but then they're not objective holders anymore.

Plague Marines are really good at standing around and soaking up ranged attacks >S6, but not much else. Noise Marines are infinitely more versatile and tactically flexible.

>> No.43656523

Yo' /Tg/uys

Is there anywhere cheaper to buy 40k than from GW because they're a bunch of money grabbing jews?

>> No.43656541

I have
20 Firewarrios (old)
10 Breachers
16 Kroot
10 Pathfinders
2 Riptides
6 Crisis
6 Stealth Battlesuits
7 Broadsides
1 Devilfish
3 Phirannas
1 Hammerhead
1 Hammerhead/Skyray
1 Sunshark Bomber
1 Ghostkeel
1 Commander (Finecast)
1 Stormsurge
Tons of Drones.

What would you recommend to buy next?

>> No.43656558

Manta gunship

>> No.43656597

probably more ghostkeels and depending on what you're planning to play either more crisis or hammerheads

>> No.43656656

3 more crisis suits, another commander

they're the best units in the book, might as well make the most of them

>> No.43656676

The fact you don't know this makes me believe you're here to shitpost with

>le jew meme

and start some shit over nothing. Fuck off.

>> No.43656689


>> No.43656703

Eldar legends of the War in Heaven are pretty different from the actual events, so the Eldar account might not be very reliable.

Old Ones are completely absent in the Eldar mythic version of the War in Heaven, and the conflict is primarily fought between the Eldaer Gods, namely Khaine and Vaul. Necrons (or Yngir as they're called in the legends, but they're described as big skeletal beings made from metal, so there isn't much doubt over who they could be) appear in the stories but mostly play a side role, with the Eldar gods occasionally fight against them and sometimes even allying with them. The C'tan are mentioned in a few legends, such as one about Asyryan battling Kaelis-Ra (Nightbringer), but again don't really have a huge role in the overall narrative which is mostly Khaine vs Vaul.

>> No.43656755


I'm actually not here to shitpost, I am actually curious.

I'm considering venturing back into this hobby and I have a group together but my money doesn't quite stretch far enough to cover the considerable investment.

I have just wondering if there were any cheaper options.

>> No.43656763

There are.

>> No.43656779


I was also hoping someone could inform me of some, such as their websites or some such

>> No.43656836

>Old Ones are completely absent in the Eldar mythic version of the War in Heaven

Not really.

In the Xenology we see an Eldar tablet with depictions of the Old Ones and the Necrons.

>appear in the stories but mostly play a side role

Again, not really. Even in the Eldar legends the C'tan were the motivation behind what happens between Eldar Gods. For example, the issue between Khaine and Vaul was caused by the 100 swords that Khaine demanded from Vaul as payment to free Isha and her husband. Vaul created 99 godly swords and ran out of time so he threw in a mundane mortal sword in to complete the hundred. During the battle between the Nightbringer and Khaine, Vaul's treachery was revealed and the battles outcome further stoked Khaine's hatred for the Eldar and Vaul.

Furthermore, Asuryan who abstained from the Eldar War in Heaven was struck down by his cold blades of his enemies during THE War in Heaven.

>> No.43656847

Wayland Games, Firestorm, Element Games

There you go anon

>> No.43656849

Heldrakes can cook the bikes no problem, but CSM has literally no answerto 1 wraithknight, let alone 4. Allied Daemons with a Slaanesh-heavy focus could do some damage through mass rending. 20 seekers with Belakor to provide Invisibility could do significant damage, possibly even killing one before they get anihilated by stomps.

>> No.43656857

Dont reply to assfaggots

here you go

>> No.43656906


Thank you Anons, I was just asking a simple question.

Look forward to actually talking about 40K on this board sometime

>> No.43656926

The hell were you planning with sixteen kroot?

>> No.43656957


All came in the same box.

>> No.43656963 [SPOILER] 


>> No.43656967

You came across badly. That's why people acted like that.

That, and the second sentence you wrote there, kind of give the impression that you are a bit of a dick honestly.

>> No.43656971

Well, you're in the wrong place then - anons here are shitty.

It's all win at all costs and cheesehammer here

You'll mostly just find general threads bitching about every aspect of the game, and the same for every other thread. /tg/ is a great board, but there are some fucking aspie fags on here.

>> No.43656982


Sonic marines are decent meq. Plague are hardier but no other strengths.
This is not news, but it certainly doesnt win any games unless in very casual nid\de\ba\orks games.
If you think csm are strong using meq youre delusional. Chosen, posessed, havocs? You use those super elites as well? Fotslogging\rhinos?
So how do you kill a TWC star? Riptides, WK, or even orikan star? Your meta has no fliers at all or you back up with 3 heldrakes?
Nah man not happening

>> No.43656998


Thanks for the advice. Should I get an ethereal or perhaps Infiltration Cadre Burning Dawn?

>> No.43657007


Huh, I thought the impression of GW here was that they're money grabbing.

The archive has lied to me

>> No.43657028

Do you actually enjoy casual and non-optimal list making and playing?

I try to run kroot, vespid, non-formation stealth teams, etc as much as i can, and you can make ok-lists from basically anyone in the codex

>> No.43657029

They are, but starting out by parroting a Jew meme probably didn't do you many favours.

We aren't all bad here. Most are ok.

>> No.43657031 [SPOILER] 

>Should I get an ethereal or perhaps Infiltration Cadre Burning Dawn?

More Riptides.

>> No.43657044


I'll keep that in mind

Clearly I've spent much too much time on /b/

>> No.43657060

No bothers.

Out of curiosity, what army do you play?

>> No.43657061

>next chaos marines update
>mutilators are mandatory
>40 points each, max unit size of 10
>do you speak to the weapons spirit? once per game the unit can render cqc weapons as regular ccw

would this make them OP? charge a unit of paladins and smash them to bits with chainfists as they find their forceweapons are useless. though you could also charge a knight and suddenly that chainsword of D isn't so hot

>> No.43657083

/tg/ is the opposite of WAAC. It's 90% complaining that 7.5e codices are OP and that their low tier army is impossible to have fun with. Any time a tournament-level list gets posted it gets shat on for being no fun allowed.

>> No.43657087

Literally all Mutilators need to be fielded is Fearless.

>> No.43657104


I'm thinking of starting a Dark Eldar army...Dont really know why

Played IG for a bit before they turned into the Astra Militarum

>> No.43657113


They need to be swept under the rug and forgotten about. The person responsible for their creation should be thrown from a rooftop and dragged through the street.

>> No.43657114

Would this work, then? The Hell Talons are much better than the Heldrakes especially post-nerf, and the Fire Raptor Gunship is a heavy support flying badass. Nurgle Daemon Prince does a pretty good job, too at downing bikes/damaging Wraithknights. Cultists/Nurglings are required troops which are basically meat shields.

1850 points


Daemon Prince - 340 points
-Daemon of Nurgle
-Psyker Mastery Level 3
-The Black Mace
-Power Armor


9 Chaos Cultists with 1 Cultist Champion - 50 points

9 Chaos Cultists with 1 Cultist Champion - 50 points

---Fast Attack---

3x Hell Talons - 190 x 3 = 570 points
-Helstorm Autocannon
-Warp-Pulse Bombs

---Heavy Support---

Chaos Fire Raptor Gunship - 200 points

+++Allied Detachment+++


Be'Lakor - 350 points


3 Nurglings - 45 points


20 Seekers of Slaanesh - 245 points
-Heartseeker upgrade

>> No.43657119

Looking at them as a non Chaos player, I am telling you now that they need WAY more than that.

>> No.43657151

Better, but i would still take at least 1 heldrake, the bikes cant take a retarded jink save against a ap3 torrent template.

>> No.43657163

DE have beautiful models but are in a bad place on TT right now, if that bothers you.

IG are the same really apart from their name change.

>> No.43657200

i think they need a bit more then that, they're suppose to be versatile assault terminators

i do like the idea of them and it branches out more daemon/marines hybrids and collecting weapon spirits.

>> No.43657210


I'm gonna be playing a kinda small group, is it bad enough that a relative newcomer will get stomped?

Anything else to recommend?

>> No.43657245

You are lacking in objective holding dudes. And pretty low model count. But waacish enough, im sure youd win stuff.
Nurgle dp dissapears as soon as theres anything ignores cover\enough dakka to fail 2+\auspex\dflamers so dont count on him doing much.

>> No.43657273

Aight. 1 Heldrake, use the 20 remaining points leftover as a result for Armored Ceramite for Gunship.

>> No.43657316

Generally, what do you think it is essential in a well-rounded list?

>> No.43657349

Should I build my Betrayal at Calth set as a 40k Red Scorpions list or should I just give in to the HH overlords and build it as a 30k list? (nobody at my store plays 30k so I'd be playing against 40k armies)

>> No.43657376

For which army, IG?

>> No.43657391

>Nurgle dp dissapears as soon as theres anything ignores cover\enough dakka to fail 2+\auspex\dflamers so dont count on him doing much.
Even with invisibility plus additional MoN defense increase?

>> No.43657397

Depends. Haven't played 30k myself but I hear it's fairly underpowered until you hit 2000pts.

>> No.43657400



Like, will I just get ultra rekt?

>> No.43657425

>the 100 swords that Khaine demanded from Vaul
You know that little bit of text. It always made me think of Farsight's Dawnblade because in the legend those swords make their wielder pretty much tireless (ie immortal maybe). Which would explain why Farsight hasn't croaked yet.
So how many people are in this party of thinking here?

>> No.43657438

Fuck off. "Le Jew" is fucking bullshit and you know it. He could have left that shit out.

They're no more Jew than any other profit oriented company.

The fact you can't be bothered to type "Discount 40k" into Google came across as you being a meme spouting prick.

And seeing as we have cunts in /tg/ 24/7 now, forgive my reaction to one of the oldest shitposts on /tg/ being negative.

Never buy direct from GW. Even Canada and Australia have access to 3rd party sites. Ebay is even cheaper than them.

That's another reason, it's useless if you don't tell us where you're from.

>> No.43657467

You know how everything in the game has ignores cover nowadays? Well you have 5+ armor saves and AV 10 open-topped vehicles. When DE isn't jinking or hiding, they're dying.

>> No.43657473

Depends. Casually it will be fine. Tau are your complete hard counter though and will wreck you without even trying so be wary of that.

Just ask your opponent not to cheese out. Against pre necron stuff you should be ok. Necron stuff onwards you may have to work harder.

>> No.43657491

gj on that sweet ass deal anon

>> No.43657514


I was more trying to ask someone who actually know stuff about 40K, I was just looking for someone who knew more than me.

I'm sorry, yes I'm a meme spouting prick. I apologise.

>> No.43657517

Yeah that's what I heard as well. I could always buy more plastic HH stuff on eBay by the squad I guess...

>> No.43657538


Hmm, perhaps I should find a better army to field, I know for a fact I'll be fighting IG and Space Marines...

So maybe another army would be best...

>> No.43657600

Oh i read screamers not seekers so thought youd invis those every turn. Yea if hes invis he would survive most things, just dont get stuck in anything or fail that daemon weapon ;)

>> No.43657607

Well, that's one of the possible origins usually mentioned (taht or it being the legendary sword of Eldar mythology: Anearis, or Sword of Dawnlight). Other is it being Necron or Chaos relic.

Personally, I think that based on the stuff we learned in the Farsight supplment, I don't think it's any of those. It was held by one of a group of statues which were all holding anti-Daemon amulets, so whoever made it was probably not a Chaos-worshipper (those statues seem to have been built to contain any Daemons coming from the Chaos temple where Farsight accidentally causes a daemonic incursion by killing some Orks inside the place). Necrons aren't all that likely to erect a bunch of statues on random planets and give them fancy swords, either. Eldar maybe, but the statues seemed to be more of an Imperial style (hooded and robed figures, which show up a lot in Imperial architecture).
I'm quessing the blade was put there by the Orde Malleus. But of course it might have been built by somebody else.

>> No.43657611

It's cool. So, what country? If you're American or British, you're OK. If you're Australian or Canadian, you need specific websites.

I was just being a prick, sorry, /tg/ has been shit lately.

>> No.43657626

Hey at anything near 500, below where formations, special detachment buffs, and heavy hitters can come into play, Dark Eldar rock out against most targets. They fall shorter and shorter the larger the points go.

>> No.43657655


I'm British yeah, it's cool. I've come to like /tg/, the stories here are actually good compared to other boards.

See if this was /b/, there would be no understanding between us

>> No.43657658

so it turns out everyone at the nearest game store plays tau and they don't like terrain

I don't want my chaos marines to be tabled on turn 1 please help

>> No.43657688


Okay, I'll start building my army with the links you've given me.

Thanks guys

>> No.43657748


Plan A)
Talk to them and try to make them realize if they don't allow heavy cover you will be effortlessly tabled and that isn't fun for either player.

Plan B)
Call them faggots and storm out.
Play at the second nearest store.

>> No.43657763

Wargear loadouts for Command Squads?

It seems like if I go for Reclusiam I want stuff that will help in CCW, but the Apothecary makes me want to sit back and camp an objective and rely on FNP/cover to just slug through it, and shoot at people with Plasma or Grav.

>> No.43657781

- Armourbane / Haywire
- Template weapons
- AP1 / AP2

>Good to have
- Transports
- Psykers
- Long range MBTs
- Infiltrators

>> No.43657786

Continuing this - or do I just go barebones for upgrades?

>> No.43657792


What's the fun in playing without terrain?

>> No.43657815

Save up more money for gas? Seriously, if the atmosphere isn't fun, either voice your concerns like a reasonable adult, or drive to a different store.

No one should stop you from having a good time.
except yourself, apparently.

>> No.43657816

the nearest store already takes an hour and a half for me to get to

there used to be a closer store, quite close in fact, but it went out of business.

I have no choice but to try talking to them, but I am not very good at that.

I have no idea. Maybe they like rolling dice.

>> No.43657819

Reclusiam command squad is shit. It's a melee squad that is forced to go on a Razorback.

If you want a melee Command squad give them bikes, they bring their own cover around and T5 make fnp better.

>> No.43657866

Then you're sorted. It's just... /tg/ has got so bad recently....

>heavy cover
>mattering to Tau

>> No.43657879


Hello! I am here to help you the best I can. Dark Eldar are not at the top of the list of powerful factions, but they are not at the bottom either. They are still in a better way than Chaos, Orks, Nids and Guard, or at least equal.

Min/Max units in transports and ALWAYS jink. Get the upgrade for everything that makes your jink's 3+.

Warriors in Open Topped Transports DON'T snap shoot when their transport jinks - so if you maximize Dark Lances, Blasters, Splinter Cannons, etc in the squads within your transports, you will be effectively zipping them all over the board with a 3-Wound, 3+ Cover Save without any penalty to shooting.

You can also have a squad of nasty melee units assault out of open-topped transports, which is good. Go with Grotesques or whatever are the bigger, multi-would, high toughness units available nowadays. Stay away from Wyches and Incubi.

It's very feasible to run 5-6 Venom's and 5-6 Raiders, all with 5 man squads with special weapons. The Venom's can pour out 12 shots each. Good luck

>> No.43657910

Keep'em cheap, I guess, then?

I'm cobbling this together out of bitz for fun so I don't have to worry about having spent additional money on something that sucks.

>> No.43657948

If it falls through, just an if, there is the Eldar Guardian Battleforce.

Yes I am recommending Eldar. Bear with me.

This formation is not OP, is very versatile due to the varied load outs of the units you can bring, and plays like a hit and run, glass cannon army.

Everything is flimsy as fuck, but can be very fast even on foot and has very good psyker support. The guardian squads can buy a psyker sergeant that can confer shrouded with their abilities.

The vehicles are all 10/10/10 2HP in the formation but are extremely fast, cheap and covered in heavy weaponry. With the exception of the artillery, but that is also cheap.

Just a suggestion, in case you want to field a glass cannon army and DE aren't doing it for you.

>> No.43657966

>complaining about tanks
>have the best anti-tank in the game that doesn't care about armour values
Fuck off.

>> No.43657975

Get some cardboard and start putting together a cityscape. Make it all like nice streets and tall to short buildings. Make sure you can pull them apart to allow units to be put on the different levels easily. Make that all look cool and interesting. Go to FLGS and ask if anyone wants to play in a cool cityscape game with all your nice terrain. I'm sure there will be at least a few players willing to go against you hopefully.

>> No.43657991


>those old ass vypers

GW plz

>> No.43658002

Vyper models are old but sexy. I love them. I don't think they need changing.

>> No.43658024

He was taking a jab at Eldar you dingus.

>> No.43658032

Oh, that change things. Either way Command Squads are used competitively in two ways:

1) Cheap sucide squad with special weapons in drop pods

2) Bike Command Squads.

Still, if you aren't playing competitively a Command squad is good for making a bodyguard for a melee character on foot. You put it in a drop pod, and the turn you drop you use the ranged special weapons. Then you have them act as a retinue for the character to give him fnp. Even better if IH because of 4+ fnp.

>> No.43658167

Plus, holy shit, I would trade the venom for a vyper in a heartbeat. It doesn't have a transport capacity but fuck me it spits out a horrendous amount of firepower for a cheap as fuck cost. Plus it's fragile as hell.

I think it does DE better than actual DE.

>> No.43658235

>go on /v/
>do filename thread
>get Janitor Warning for "offtopic, not vidya"
>thread suddenly dies

Arggg. This just compounds the death throws of /tg/ even more.

>Suicide Command Squads are the only way to get Grav Weapons for BA's

It's a real shame.

>> No.43658267

The secret of the sword will be revealed in the upcoming Mont'ka book.

you better start placing your bets guys.

>> No.43658278

Also bear in mind, for whatever dumb reason, this box doesn't seem to come with an Warlocks, which you NEED in an Eldar Citizen Army

You'll want one for at least each guardian squad, if not more.

>> No.43658314

This is very true, though I would recommend the Farseer and Warlocks bundle for anyone interested.

It's a very good deal, and although its in finecast, the models themselves are good looking and give you three warlocks and a Farseer, which fill out a few requirements in one go.

>> No.43658814

>The secret of the sword will be revealed in the upcoming Mont'ka book.

>> No.43658976

>banned from /v/ due to off-topic filename
>filename was vidya related
>leave porn links up

Fucking mods really fucking suck. And of course, no way to contact anybody about this horseshit. All because somebody doesn't know who The Pain is from MGS.

Does my fucking head in, all I ever get banned for is shit like that. It's doing my nut.

Would Seer Council fit an Ulthwé army? I hate not having Black Guardian bonuses these days. Also, what's the name of the Matriarch Craftworld?

>> No.43659039

>Seer council

God yeah. You can have Eldrad in it and everything.

The Craftworld's name is Iybraesil.

>> No.43659121

Awesome. Shame there is no R34 of that particular Craftworld....

I want +1WS/+1BS bonuses back for Black Guardians thou.

Fucking mods... no way to contact them either ;_; oh well

>> No.43659217

Well they have a really high amounts of Banshees, more than any other Craftworld, and there is loads of R34 of them so...

And BS 5 guardians would probably be a bit overkill. 40 shots with rending against anything with a toughness value at BS 5 would be utterly terrifying for anything to face.

Mind you the 12" range on the guns balances it out. I rarely get to shoot anything with their catapults, until the end of the game where I finally close in.

>> No.43659222

Also, should point out I'm not the guy you originally spoke too. I was just butting in. Shame I won't play 40k for awhile.

>> No.43659306

>models like this will never come back

>> No.43659331


Is... that a good thing or a bad thing?

>> No.43659350

Is that... a wych?

>> No.43659378

It's a 3rd ed Dark Eldar special character with the bodysuit painted flesh tones.

>> No.43659400


Bad, man. Bad.

No more cheeky cheesecake models by GW. You have to go and find 3rd party for that. Even for models that it makes sense, like Repentia, Penitent Engines, Lilieath, Morathi and so on.

>> No.43659431

>She is usually referred to as Kruellagh the Vile although she is known by many other aliases, such as "The Mistress of Skulls", "The Emasculator", "Da Skinna" (by the Orks), and "Mistress Hell Fury".

>The elite warriors she personally commands within the Kabal are known as "The Emasculators", known for lightning-fast precision assaults.

>"The Emasculators"

>> No.43659456

>No more cheeky cheesecake models by GW.
>implying that's a bad thing
not everyone want their models to be weird soft porn pieces. if you want that, go 3rd party, and leave the rest of us alone

>> No.43659511

If you're such a baddie that you are relying on grav or dont know how to bubble wrap your shit, please tell me where you live. I need an easy opponent.

>> No.43659579

Kruellagh the Vile?

What the fuck were they thinking with that name?

>> No.43659629

>The elite warriors she personally commands within the Kabal are known as "The Emasculators", known for lightning-fast precision assaults.

To the balls, apparently.

>> No.43659695


Cruella de Vil reference, I imagine.

>> No.43659702

Apparently she had a bit of equipment that would drain her opponents of their vital fluids and inject them into her, making her faster and stronger.

As opposed to making her fat and giving her AIDS.

>> No.43659716

Oh I got that part. I just want to know why??? Were they high at the time?

Probably. Jesus.

>> No.43659808

Those eyes look odd.

>> No.43659827

Do you seriously not know about the countless pop culture references in 40k/WHFB?

>> No.43659874

Of course I do. This one isn't subtle at all and is frankly retarded.

Thank god I got into DE after fifth edition.

>> No.43659895


DE? How do you a recommend starting an army? I only need a small one, below 1000 points.

>> No.43659902

I think there is a fundamental flaw in your understanding of these events there are 2 events known as the War in Heaven in 40k one is the Eldar war fought between Vaul and Khaine and the other is the galaxy spanning war of the Necrons and Old Ones they are not 1 event but 2 completely separate events with the same name

>> No.43660002

>banned for shitposting
>get mad about it

>> No.43660006

Stock up on venoms with splinter cannons filled with blasterborn (trueborn with blisters). Deep strike them if you are feeling ballsy, I once took out a shitload of my roommates marines by deepstriking mine into his deployment zone.

Scourges are probably your best source of anti tank.

A rule of thumb I used was raiders for assaulting, venoms for shooting. This worked well for me.

Reaver jet bikes are amazing. I never left home without them.

I would do you up a list but frankly I'm not arsed. For troops I stuck kabalites in venoms. Lots of venoms. Good luck.

>> No.43660048

Something has been bothering me on Chaos. The Gods get their power from emotions, but how does it work? Is it like exp or something? How much power is Khorne going to get from an average joe getting slightly mad about getting stuck in traffic? I know it's a generational thing, but I always wanted to know how much power the Chaos Gods get from one day on average.

Another thing. Events in the material world have caused the Chaos Gods to be what they are, so some people would probably think that if things changed in the material world for the better the Chaos Gods would change for the better. The real question isn't "can they change?", it's "do they want to change?" The Chaos Gods may not have true free will like we do, but they have some form of will. They manipulate events to suit their needs, and for only three purposes. Domination over all of creation, destruction of reality, and entertainment. The Emperor knew that emotions fueled the Chaos Gods, and planned on humanity to reign in its emotions. The Chaos Gods didn't want this to happen, and we knew what they did to make sure the modern 40k could happen so that they could get more emotions to fuel them. They don't want anyone to mess with their fuel supply, and I doubt they'll react positively to anyone trying to "change them to benevolent, caring gods". Maybe emotions are like chicken noodle soup, and negative emotions are chicken noodle soup with crackers.

>> No.43660070


I assume Wyches suck? Like not recommended to run them?

>> No.43660100


Fuck off. There is like, 5 models which could be considered "cheesecake" and only 2 of them still exist.

You forget that GW didn't use to care and made models for neckbeards like myself. Then it got popular and censored itself, rightly, to get more money.

So, the fact you were making an army or faced an army of just these 5 or so models (2 of which are WHFB), shows your problem, not mine.

She basically sucks their "body fluid" out to "energize" herself as well. It's a metaphor.

Sex metaphor, I think.

It's not as bad as Clousseau, Obiwan Sherlock. Or Commissar Barbie.

I didn't shitpost. I posted a video game related filename in a video game filename thread.

>> No.43660118

Absolutely terrible, I ran math on them a few times. If ten of them charged a marine squad (ten fits in a raider) they have a high chance of getting pummelled themselves and losing the combat. Never use them.

>> No.43660120

i dont think u read what he said desu.

unless you thought he also posted porn links, which i don't think he did mean.

but when you're probably this guy

>> No.43660133

>Commissar Barbie
You're joking.

>> No.43660156

new player here, question about moving and shooting with vehicles-

a hellhound can move 6" and shoot one weapon at full BS, and if it moves 12" it can only fire snapshots? so if i had an inferno cannon and hull flamer and went c12" i couldnt shoot, right?

also, can vehicles "run" in the shooting phase?

>> No.43660209

>a hellhound can move 6" and shoot one weapon at full BS

Thats only for non-fast vehicles, hellhounds are fast vehicles and can move 12'' and fire one weapon at full BS or move 6'' and fire two.

>> No.43660259

Which army looks best in MK4 armor? I want to paint the coolest looking dudes.

>> No.43660279

Emperors Children.

>> No.43660296

Popularity contest.

Two things power the Chaos Gods.

1. Things linked to their speciality
2. Souls

For example, cause the setting is "THERE IS ONLY WHURRR", then Khorne is always on top. This means that more people are likely to also worship him in exchange for the chance of power. When plague ravages the galaxy, Nurgle shoots to the top and eclipses all. He gains more power when dying/infected/soon-to-be-infected sell their souls to him for immunity to the plague(s). But when it dies down, he shoots back down to the bottom. Essentially, he has the highest potential, but it's fleeting. Slaanesh gets power from excess, this doesn't mean regular sex or reproducing, it means Gilles de Rai (real person btw, look him up) level shit. He/she/it then gets more when people sell their souls to him for more pleasure/pain/sensation. Tzeentch is about change, politicking, backstabbing and rusing and shit. So that guy who becomes 2nd in Command and gains support of his underlings, then kills the leader and takes his place? That powers him. So does change in itself. Big changes give more (so, entire system becoming Daemon Worlds for example). He gains power when people sell their souls for power/station and shit like that.

As for the Emperor. He knew he couldn't do the emotions things, he wanted to stamp out the idea there was anybody or anything to turn too. Everything Emperor did was to weaken the Chaos Gods. Humanity has no enemies to fight? Less war. Humanity has technology mastered? No plagues. Humanity is nicely ordered? Little chance of major change. Humanity is policed and monitored? Less chance of extreme excess due to nobody standing over you, watching.

The fact Chaos Gods would actually "reply" to mortals praying was another reason. Remove the idea that by going "Give be the strength to beat my enemies in battle" would actually result in some Khorne Brand Buff and you stop people asking for it.

Eventually Chaos would become defeatable.

>> No.43660304

>This one isn't subtle at all
none of them are fucking subtle

"Sly" Marbo?

>> No.43660333

I am. Sorry. Wasn't specifically called that, but the model looked similar iirc. Either way, 40k has lots of silly stuff in it, so does WHFB.

>> No.43660386

And he isn't canon any more either.

Actually glad they are getting rid of all the stupid shit.

>> No.43660387

>Sonic marines are decent meq
>Access to arguably the best man-portable weapon in the game
>Access to AP3 Flamer
>All attacks ignore cover

They're not a one-size-fits-all solution, but they have consistently earned back their points in every game I've played them, and they hit shockingly well against Eldar (Not enough to mop the floor with them, but enough to catch them off guard and throw their plans for a loop when all their infantry start running off the board, which is usually more than enough to secure a win).

> Chosen, posessed, havocs

Autocannon havocs are fucking great for their points cost, especially if plugged into an Aegis Defense Line or a similar Fortification. They're a threat to pretty much anything not AV13, and the AV13 is dealt with by Melta squads or Vindicators.

Chosen are nowhere near as bad as everybody makes them out to be, you just have to keep them as cheap as possible while kitting them out for a very specific purpose. There are better options usually, but sometimes you just need to throw down 5 Templates at once or hurl a bunch of plasma from cover. Combine with Infiltrate from the Warlord Traits and they can wreck all sorts of havoc first-turn.

Possessed do suck. Honestly, just making them W2 would alleviate a lot of their problems.

>TWC star
>orikan star

Have not played it yet.


Blastmasters for days. Few things can survive 4 S8 AP3 Blast Ignores Cover shots when they're shot halfway across the board.

>Your meta has no fliers at all

Autocannon Havocs in a Defense Line w/ Quad Gun.

I have one heldrake, but I don't use it all that often.

Nobody is saying CSM's are top-tier, because they sure as hell aren't, but they're not nearly as awful as people like to bitch and moan about.

>> No.43660403

>As for the Emperor. He knew he couldn't do the emotions things, he wanted to stamp out the idea there was anybody or anything to turn too.
I thought he wanted to fill the Warp with HFY.
> Remove the idea that by going "Give be the strength to beat my enemies in battle" would actually result in some Khorne Brand Buff and you stop people asking for it.
I'm sure Fabius has probably tried that.

>> No.43660428


40k isn't 40k without stupid shit.

You're almost as bad as the whiners who think Space Wolves should dial back the Wolfwolves.

>> No.43660437

To be honest? I don't even want to be that powerful when playing Chaos. I just want to have a well balanced codex that doesn't force me to field gimpy unit combinations just to be on par with the current codex creep.

I don't want to be more powerful than what already exists, but I also don't want to feel like my codex just doesn't have the tools required to compete with the other books. I shouldn't -have- to pull allies from other books just to fill in for where the CSM codex does not.

I wouldn't even care if they did reworked the codex to the point where winning with them was still a challenge, but you weren't just absolutely blown out of the water by the opposition.

I just want a balanced codex so I can feel great when I play Chaos, and to not get stomped on by the loyalist lapdogs. But I don't want to be blatantly more powerful than them.


>> No.43660444

They should.

Who doesn't think that?

>> No.43660452

>You're almost as bad as the whiners who think Space Wolves should dial back the Wolfwolves.
How is that a bad thing? What is wrong with wanting less wolf this wolf this wolf to the max?

>> No.43660514

I was under the impression he wanted the Chaos Gods weakened enough so he could go and defeat them for good. His last piece of the puzzle was removing the need for Warp travel. With the webway, they could move instantly without the Warp. If he had gone and killed Chaos Gods before that, then humanity would be forever stuck, isolated. So he had to do that first. He NEEDED the Warp, but he still wanted Chaos weakened so he could march in there and remove them.

Didn't happen thou. I still hope and pray the Sisters of Silence and Custodes are fighting in the Webway, clearing it of Daemons. It got breached by them when Magnus PM'd Emprah. They got pushed back trying to repair it. So, I hope they went in and have been slowly clearing and repairing it for 10k years.

But probably not, not grimdark enough. Gotta have those Daemons banging on the gate.

The Dark Eldar also have this problem, though it's a direct Warp Rift, not the Webway.

>> No.43660521


Congratulations! You've both managed to miss the entire sledgehammer unsubtle reason the setting even exists!

If you want non-self aware, not intentionally goofy grimdark, the worst comic books of the 90's are over there for you.

>> No.43660581

You honest to god just sound like a self important retard.

The Space Wolves didn't have any of that bullshit associated with them until the fifth edition codex (I think I have it right). Before that they just had a Viking thing going.

That change is recent enough, and is pretty universally accepted to have been a stupid change. Especially by Space Wolf players.

Christ, I'm a xeno fucker and even I know how fucking retarded a change it was.

>> No.43660583

>. I still hope and pray the Sisters of Silence and Custodes are fighting
The Sisters probably are still fighting.
I know things are goofy, but when the word wolf has been slapped on everything when will the line be crossed?

>> No.43660710

a question on allocating wounds from barrage blasts-

I can only allocate wounds to units directly under the markers, right? if everything under the marker is dead the wounds arent given to the next closest unit?

also in melee, can wounds be allocated to models more then two inches away?

>> No.43661142

No to both of your questions, all though opponents will try to do it, either because they're trying to be sneaky beaky cheaters or because they're legitimately forgetting the rule (this is especially true of the 2" rule).

>> No.43661227

Hey /tg/!

I was thinking about you guys complaining about how melee is bad and you need to be fast and deep strike and I was thinking.
Passengers fight from inside chariots in CC, right? Why are there not riderless chariot assult transports then! Moving 12" a turn with a 4+ jink, improved hammer of wrath and your assult troops don't even need to disembark!

Come on, good idea or not?!

>> No.43661320

Because fast transports (such as wave serpents) already do that.

A raider that the DE have is basically that but without the HOW stuff.

Fast open topped transports mate.

>> No.43661325

Sisters aren't mentioned after the HH. I assume they're on the Black Ships. I did email White Dwarf "Ask Grombindal" thing but didn't get a reply. I assumed it was cause they don't give individual replies...

Dunno what to do really, they're never mentioned, just like the Custodians, in 40k.

I mean, we know 300 Companions defend the Emperor, based on 300 (which is on historical events) and that's why they're next to naked. But there were at least 700 more, what are they doing?

I want to be able to use a Custodian Army in 40k fights when they're released by Forge World. I also want to do SoS armies.

>> No.43661387

actually there is a riderless chariot, it's called the skullcannon

maybe they got too many killed when they fought the 1k sons with the space wolves? that's the only mention i know of

>> No.43661520

The Emperor's Pillar Men are still around. They're guarding the Big E still.

>> No.43661681

can you source the rules for your interpretations? i know my friend will argue it and i'll need to quote the rules.
in melee it says 'a unit can be allocated wounds in melee even if theyre not engaged'

>> No.43661851

Nope. After Burning of Prospero, they returned with the Custodians and started guarding the Tech Priests reparing the Webway and making it usable by humans. Then Magnus sent a PM, broke the wards and make hundreds of breaches, in which Daemons flooded through. They tried to hold them off while repairs were made, but eventually were pushed back. One SoS solo'd a Bloodthirster (she died due to the effort).

Then they were used during the Siege of Terra. But SoS weren't really mentioned, but obviously would have helped against the Daemons and shit. Custodians held the Emperors Garden or some shit, but they were pushed back due to sheer numbers.

I know there are 300 specifically guarding Big E. But during HH there was at least 1,000 and the number was always "unknown". But they had transports (even anti-grav Rhinos) and Dreadnoughts and Jetbikes and shit. So I assume they're still there. I highly doubt it's just 300 dudes now. There MUST be more. They're essentially Spartans to the Space Marines Romans.

They must be doing something. Since no fluff mentions them during 40k, I headcanon the idea they go on missions on order of the Emperor in small groups to help other forces. Essentially like they did during Burning of Prospero. So a Elite Elite Force to help out. To boost morale to show the Emperor is watching or some shit.

>> No.43661947

>They're essentially Spartans to the Space Marines Romans
So they practice buttfacking instead of purging alien babes?

>> No.43661978

For the second question, yes, or else you would have dedicated melee only killing a set number of guys in every melee.

For your first question, you keep allocating wounds until your wound pool empties or the unit is killed.

>> No.43662014

wait, i thought magnus sent the message before the burning of prospero. that's kinda the whole reason the wolves and sisters went there

>> No.43662063

for my ongoing wound allocation with barrage question, see picture attached.
black circles are units, red are barrage blasts. (wyvern v hormagants) with eight hits, once the wound pool is tallied can they be allocated to the units outside the blast markers?

>> No.43662083

If they are a part of the unit, yes.

>> No.43662152

Though remember with barrage you work from the centre of the blast outwards for wound allocation.

>> No.43662239


Fairly sure Melee doesn't have a range when attacking into the enemy, just that attackers need to be in b2b or 2 inches from someone in b2b. this ain't AoS

Either way almost nobody ever follows these ideas to the letter. It's the kind of thing where you -should- roll every single shot on it's own but no one does, even the Rulebook encourages fast-dice and wasting as little time as possible.

>> No.43662358

thanks guys, it's been a point of hot contention and we're still not a hundred percent sure. I think i was thinking of templates, which say you cant allocate wounds to anything outside it, but my understanding now is:

anything under a blast counts a Hit
in the event of a wyvern or something with multiple barrages, you can count up say, 20 hits against 4 models in a 10 model squad

and once wounds are generated you can then allocate wounds to the entire squad, starting of course from the unit closest to the firer/blast

>> No.43662515

It's only from the centre of the blast if it's barrage, but yeah.

>> No.43662603

Yup, but not all of them. Many were in the webway and Emperor tried to repair it.

This info is in Visions of Heresy btw, if you want to read it.

1. Emperor is repairing Webway
2. Magnus sends message
3. Seals/Wards broken, Custodes and SoS become overwhelmed and are pushed back
4. Manage to seal some rents but many get bigger
5. Emperor orders the guys to go get Magnus, sends Custodes to show it's serious shit and SoS for the 1k guys
6. Webway is eventually sealed off and the gate is maintained by Emperor
7. Malcador switches for the Emperor when Emperor goes to fight Horus
8. Emperor comes back, Malcador is dead, but saved some energy to give it to Emperor in order for the Emperor to speak
9. Emperor says some shit like "Be vigilant" and stuff.

>> No.43662780

I have a thought, /tg/. I want to try and write a breakdown of the weapon strengths of 40k, and how they break down vs enemy toughness. This might help players understand how much weapon strength is necessary for a given purpose, and how much is too much, or not enough.

>S1 & S2
I'm not even sure this exists. Wouldn't even wound Guardsmen reliably. MEQ ignores it completely.
A lasgun. Wounds Guardsmen on 4's, MEQ on 5's, and MC's almost never. Easily doubled out by higher-end beatstick units and does nothing at all to vehicles. Only really useful in large numbers.
A boltgun. Reliably wounds Guardsmen, gives some trouble to MEQ; not so good against MC's. Still useless against vehicles.
A heavy bolter. Starting to hurt things now. Will roll 2's vs Guardsmen and 3's vs MEQ. Performs decently against MC's but nothing to write home about. You CAN hurt light vehicles with this, but it doesn't mean you should.
A krak grenade. Pulps Guardsmen with Instant Death, and gives MEQ serious trouble. Performs decently against MC's, but not as great against vehicles.
An autocannon. Now we're talking. Sometimes called the 'golden number', this is enough to ID GEQs and rolls 2's vs almost everything else with a toughness score. Can give light vehicles of AV 10 and 11 a bad time; 12 and 13 are TECHNICALLY vulnerable, but you shouldn't count on it.
A krak missile. ID's MEQs and Necrons. This is the lowest strength you need to damage ANYTHING, and is really only functionally useless against heavy and super-heavy vehicles.
A battle cannon. Mulches everything with a toughness score and can beat light, medium, and (with luck) heavy vehicles into submission. Sadly only appears on expensive units and vehicles.
A demolisher cannon. The big daddy. This isas strong as you can get with sheer power; any infantry, even some MC's fear instant death from this. You'll have to drop some serious points to get this kind of power; be sure it goes to good use.

>> No.43662820

>I'm not even sure this exists. Wouldn't even wound Guardsmen reliably
Lots of poison weapons are S2

>> No.43662854

Useful, but AP is the key stat on a weapon, in my eyes. People see "Oo Strength 10", but let's just say it has AP6 or -. It's going to be saved by armour.

AP2 is the golden number. AP3 will do well against most things. AP1 is on rare weapons and unfortunately, glances > penetration. It's easier to glance something to death than it is to penetrate and one hit it. Which is a real shame.

>> No.43662945


Ah, you got me. I was more working from the principle of weapons without special powers that affect their to-wound roll.

Entirely true. A plasma gun has the same strength as an autocannon, but performs far better against everything thanks to it's improved AP. I was just trying to cover strength. Should I write a table for AP?

>> No.43662949

Battle cannons are S8. Earthshakers are 9

>> No.43662961

does the standard IG codex have access to anything with Instant Death?

>> No.43663016

Yeah, do one for AP.

Also >>43662949

Don't think so.

>> No.43663021


No, for the most part they just make do with high-strength Ordnance weapons. The Armored Battlegroup list can take Instant Death shells for Leman Russ Vanquishers, though. The same tank can also take the Ryza-pattern turret with coaxial machine gun, which can twin-link the main gun, natch.

>> No.43663114

>Blastmasters for days.

Uh... What?
>2+ armor
>72" range gun
>5 wounds

How are 4 Ignores Cover krak missiles going to take that down? If they were even in range, what with the Riptide outranging them by half, 4 shots isn't nearly enough to make it start failing its save. It'd take most of a game for them to bring down even one.

Aside from wounding on 2s, the Blastmaster has literally nothing on Riptides. Shit, it'd do better against Wraithknight, which rarely has a cover save to begin with.

If you're a lucky motherfucker you'll pin it, but don't bet on killing it.

>> No.43663177

You can't pin monstrous creatures.

>> No.43663238

Well, shit. Forgot 7th changed that, so thanks I guess. Even so, that's even less they can do, then.

>> No.43663256

Fast can shoot 2 at cruising and all at combat

>> No.43663313


DAMN! Well, I feel dumb. Anyway...

A frag grenade, the weakest AP there is. Works against guants, and not much else. Better than nothing.
A boltgun. Good for Guardsmen and most blob units. Get this on your blast and high-ROF weapons for superior mulching power.
A heavy bolter. Good for Tempestus Scions and Necron Warriors. A good mid-range AP. Not excellent, and not terrible.
A krak missile. Now we're talking. This will punch through the ceramite plates of a Space Marine. Doesn't show up often (unless you're Militarum Tempestus, in which case it's EVERYWHERE), but very nice when it does. High-RoF weapons with this, such as the Avenger Bolt Cannon and Vulcan Mega-Bolter, are some of the most-feared weapons on the table.
A plasma gun. This is what it takes to punch through Terminator armor, and as a bonus offers additional penetrating damage against vehicles; this is the kind of AP you need to make a vehicle actually explode. As far as beating saves goes, this is the top of the range. There IS better, but against everything except vehicles, you won't need it.
A meltagun. This is the kind of weapon that straight up doesn't care. A foot of ceramite? Nope, don't care. C'Tan reality-warping powe-NO I DON'T THINK YOU HEARD ME, I HAVE A MELTAGUN. Penetrate a vehicle with this and you have a one-in-three chance of it exploding.

>> No.43663352

>A heavy bolter. Good for Tempestus Scions and Necron Warriors. A good mid-range AP. Not excellent, and not terrible.

Necron warriors are 3+ I believe.

>> No.43663392

They're 4+ since Ward update

>> No.43663395


No, that's Immortals. Warriors are 4+.

>> No.43663423

Dayum, my bad.

>> No.43663470

What the fuck with the names on everything in that image?

>> No.43663527

Old playtest versions from back in 5e. I have no fucking clue why he has them now.

>> No.43663577


WHOOPS, wrong image. Well, immortals ARE 4+.

>> No.43663597

Nope they are 3+.

>> No.43663599

>Well, immortals ARE 4+.
Immortals have literally never been 4+. Even when Warriors were a 3+, back in 3e, Immortals were also 3+.

>> No.43663611


Oh good LORD I need to go to bed. I meant WARRIORS are 4+, IMMORTALS are 3+.

>> No.43663631

get your rest, anon. We'll be here tomorrow.

>> No.43663932

What are your guys thoughts on these third party jump packs? Was thinking of buying some for my Betrayal at Calth dudes but wanted something more interesting than the standard Assault Marine ones. Apparently its like 7 pounds for 5.

>> No.43664008

Looks techy but cool. More sleek than the GW packs. Sauce? I'd like to see them painted.

>> No.43664054


>> No.43664598

Thanks anon. May invest in a few of these myself to make up a swagged out Vanguard squad for those tasty Shadowstrike rules.

>> No.43664709

Looks cool but very Halo-ish/AAA futuristic FPS video game with those angles everywhere so it might look out of place if the rest of your army is smooth power armor plates everywhere, idk. Sometimes third party stuff sticks out like a sore thumb, sometimes not, I'd really just need to see it in its intended context.

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