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[ERROR] No.43268808 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Do the good armies in your setting pillage and plunder and rape when they capture a city? If they don't, how does their leader keep up morale and pay them enough?

>> No.43268895

The term you're looking for is "liberate." You'll kindly remember that next time, or we'll demonstrate with your daughter before your very eyes.

>> No.43268939

There's no such thing as a 'good" army.

One army fights for ancient degenerate mage lords who warp their political prisoners into gross monsters and send them back home, but otherwise keep to themselves.

One army is ruled by trolls who treat humans as second class citizens but have a declaration if rights for home owning male human adults.

You pick who you choose.

>> No.43268947

Not much need for rape when you've got mixed gender troops.

A bubbly conditioned ass like in your pic will always beat some droopy peasant.

>> No.43269004

Ample camp followers and other distractions, paid and maintained.

>> No.43269013

>>43268895
I sure as shit would "liberate" that ladyknight.

>> No.43269046

>>43268808
>Do the good armies in your setting pillage and plunder and rape when they capture a city?

Yes, but some plattoons/legions commanders don't not encourage this behauviour.

Keeping them feed, a wealthy amount of "exemples" in case they disobey, it helps to allow some families, like the wifes of the peasants soldiers to join the march, in the way the family member works on the armies camp. Also those who don't commit the act are quickly promoted, but only if, they're efficient.

>> No.43269066

>>43268808
Naw, the army get's it's jollies out beating the degenerate population into compliance and showing them the error of their evil ways.

Nothing like a good old fashioned revenge beating when you find the father who threw acid in his daughters face for not following the evil overlord.

>> No.43269085

>>43268808
People have been doing that for as long as there has been war, and haven't stopped today in 2015.

Any setting where armies don't rape and wreck shit is a setting that's either retarded, or where the evil side consists of a people that's completely sexually incompatible with humans.

And I'm talking like "They have spikes instead of orifices" levels of incompatible, not "they're ugly" or whatever.

>> No.43269094

>>43269066

This. If they're Good in the D&D sense (which is the only way you can unironically describe an army as "good" as opposed to "on your side"), then morale is already up for as long as they're fighting Evil and winning, and pay isn't as much of a factor.

>> No.43269115

One of my players overcame this problem by hiring a large contingent of whores to accompany the army on their travels, and paying his soldiers well enough that plundering was not worth it. Turns out that real life armies have done this, too.

>> No.43269141

>>43269085
Nothing like socially acceptable murder to get people hyped up for sex. Sex with literally anything, when you've been living in a dirty hole fearing for your life for weeks/months, you are going to take ANY possible comfort you can get.

>> No.43269155

>>43269094
Well they still have to be fed, clothed, armed, armored, mounted, shipped, insured, and then twice that amount to support their dependents back home.
Unless of course they're landed professional warrior caste in which case half the reason they're on campaign in the first place is plunder, and the other half is personal glory in combat against a 'worthy' enemy

>> No.43269164

>>43268947
>Mixed gender troops stops rape.

The real world examples we have of mixed gender military personnel include stuff like the US army, where 25% of military women have been sexually assaulted and 80% or so has been sexually harassed.

If you're a chick in the army you're more likely to get raped by fellow soldiers than KIA.

>> No.43269214

That depends entirely on how the commanding officers punish their soldiers for immoral acts like that, and whether or not there are camp followers and attendants. Also if there's some religious zealotry against pleasures of the flesh.

Also a nice execution is a good way of setting an example for other troops who might feel the need to get grabby with the locals.

>> No.43269221

>>43269164
These are fantasy worlds though, where women are literally equal to men in all ways, including physically.

So of course it's not realistic.

>> No.43269226

>>43269155
All those things are secondary to saving the world.

If you're fighting a BBEG with any world domination/destruction plot everyone better be fucking fighting for literally nothing or else they're as dumb as a sack of hammers.

But >>43269066 also raises a good point. Who's going to care if a couple of soldiers take liberties with the Dark Elf POWs who were just days before happily whipping slaves and torturing soldiers or rough up an orc they find trying to rape one of their camp hands.

>> No.43269347

>>43269141
Yep.
>>43268808
Morals kind of go out the window in war, and medieval style war is worse.

If you've say, been laying siege to some castle or city and just broken through, you're fucking miserable.

You've had liquid shits for days. You've been tear-jerkingly close to random death several times. People you know, your friends, have died in horrible, unfair ways, from having hot sand poured on them to dying from a random roof tile thrown by some peasant who didn't have the good sense to surrender.

You've had rocks dropped on you, been sniped at by crossbowmen, watched people dying painfully in fever and infection. You might have starved or eaten things you don't want to talk about for the last weeks.

When you finally knock down a wall or bust open a gate, and you've been running like an idiot fearing for your life every second and expecting an archer in every window or line of spears behind every corner, but somehow survived, and you finally got the fuckers, there's going to be hell to pay.

People don't get to surrender AFTER a siege, not after all the shit the besieging army has to go through to take the castle/city etc.

So when you're sitting there in the middle of the screaming and the fires, and watch your friends take turn raping some merchant's wife who's screaming about the rest of her family still inside her now burning house, you don't really give a fuck. She didn't have the good sense to open the gates, and she's probably been chucking rocks at you the entire time, you don't really care. What's happening to her is not worse than what you went through in order to get past the walls, and it's easy to tell yourself they had it coming, because they could have fucking surrendered, that's how sieges work. Surrender, or no quarter.

It's not about being evil or amoral, it's about how it's really fucking hard to care after having been through hell for 3 weeks and watching your friends die awful and meaningless deaths.

>> No.43269391

>>43269221
Tell me one fantasy world where that's true for anyone except player characters.

MOST fantasy settings, including Tumblrs & Dragons, still have more male soldiers and laborers and female housewives and maids than the other way around.

>> No.43269438

>>43268808

Why is she not wearing any pants?

>> No.43269465

>>43269391
>MOST fantasy settings, including Tumblrs & Dragons, still have more male soldiers and laborers and female housewives and maids than the other way around.

That is certainly true, but that doesn't mean that the men and women aren't equal, just underrepresented in certain areas like the military. A lvl 1 commoner or a peasant woman is equally as capable/dangerous as a man. In this case it's less reasonable for women to have their hand held or receive special treatment, when they out the starting gate are equal to men in every way, and can very possibly become superior to them with training.

>> No.43269486

>>43269438
Same reason she's wearing a metal bra and not a proper chestplate.

She's not actually a knight, she's a knight-themed stripper brought in for the festivities when the boys wanted to have some fun after all that hard work killing Onyxia again (head in background)

>> No.43269551

>>43269438
She's getting ready for some rape. Just look at her.

Their army just conquered the city and there's a victory celebration on. She just spied some local guy fearfully trying to get food for his family, and is going to sidle up to him and with her arm lead him to an inn or force him into a back alley if he doesn't cooperate. The guy in full-plate talking with her knows what's up and is like "You're eyeing HIM? Well, whatever floats your boat, just be back in time for the general's speech... and maybe give the poor guy a few coin after you're done with him, he's got kids to feed."

>> No.43269583

>>43269465
Gender equality isn't due to physical strength retard (certainly hasn't helped though)

It's primarily because throughout our entire history of forming societies, men have been a better investment when it comes to everything from inheritable possessions to inheritable authority positions, because they don't keep dying in childbirth. That's it. Guys can knock up a brazillion women and keep the succession going without it affecting their capacity to perform their jobs.

A woman getting knocked up has a Roughly 1 in 6 chance of suffering some kind of complication or health issue that's potentially lethal without modern medicine, which is why they've been considered less reliable and valuable.

But that's besides the point, player characters are exceptional, and the choice to make women and men mechanically equal is not a statement about the setting, a lvl 1 peasant has very little to do with a lvl 1 player character.
It's a statement that the games designers don't want to give female characters any disadvantages, not some kind of clue about how biology works in the game world.

>> No.43269672

>>43269583
>It's primarily because throughout our entire history of forming societies, men have been a better investment when it comes to everything from inheritable possessions to inheritable authority positions, because they don't keep dying in childbirth. That's it. Guys can knock up a brazillion women and keep the succession going without it affecting their capacity to perform their jobs.
>A woman getting knocked up has a Roughly 1 in 6 chance of suffering some kind of complication or health issue that's potentially lethal without modern medicine, which is why they've been considered less reliable and valuable.

Literally none of this is true in typical fantasy settings. With regular easy access to magic and simple healing/fertility rites be it through potions, arcane castes, spirit shamans, etc... only a willful refusal makes reproduction dangerous.

And that's completely ignoring the detail of total equivalence including physical. Women with the same STR, DEX, CON, etc as their male counterparts don't have to worry about pregnancy and birth, unless the setting specifically goes into detail about penalties of them, and a lot of them do not.

>> No.43269741

>>43269583
I always figured that gender equality in RPGs was due to the fact that, for example, both this guy and this girl are level 1 fighters.

That means that, regardless of how much training was required or how long it took, both of them have achieved a level of experience and physical ability equal to that of a textbook level 1 fighter.

It doesn't mean that everyone is equal from birth, but that, by becoming a level 1 anything, you have reached the bare minimum of what that level entails. You've both achieved and equal state of being.

>> No.43269755

>>43269672
>Well, sure the setting has mainly male authority figures, male fighters and male physical labourers and it's easy to tell men and women apart because they're usually different sizes and builds, but hey, since the character creation rules don't have specific penalties for women, I'll use that as an argument for how the entire setting is gender neutral, because clearly the character creation rules are more convincing than just looking at the fucking setting.

Try harder autist.

>> No.43269776

>>43268808
>Do the good armies in your setting pillage and plunder
Yup.
>and rape
Generally, no. At least not in the part of the world that I've actually fleshed out for use in my current campaign, the far border of a federation of generally decent nations, this nation prides itself on being the rampart between the free folk and the many Evils in the East. They tend to be an uncouth, but honest and reliable people. Rape isn't much a thing in their militaries for a couple of reasons. The leadership strongly discourage it as it tends to piss off the Good-aligned gods whose blessing helps them hold the enemies at bay. Meanwhile, one of said goddesses (my players have taken to calling her "The Party Goddess" due to her domains including healing, sex, wine, and song) has an entire group of quite skilled sacred prostitutes in her service who there's ALWAYS at least a dozen of following even a small army on the march. Normally, you make a small donation and you get to have mind-blowingly good sex that (since it is a sacred rite for her) gives her more power and magically refreshes you, body and soul. Sometimes they'll even perform the rite for free (usually for those who received magical healing and need the energy to be back on their feet). The donation is mostly a formality to keep the girls from being overwhelmed with too many worshipers, or one guy from trying to game the system just going over and over again keeping them from helping other worshipers.

>> No.43269792

>>43269755
Most settings today are completely equalized because of SJW concerns.

Besides, any setting with magic completely negates normal social expectations, when a little girl can decimate an army with magic.

>> No.43269814

>>43269438
All paladins are sluts, don't believe what Pelinal Whitestrake says.

>> No.43269819

>>43269741
But level is not something that's an issue outside of the rules. People aren't walking around with their class and level in bright shining letters above their head, people in the setting don't know about any freaking character creation rules.

You can still argue that the female fighter had to spend more effort and make more sacrifices to become a level 1 fighter than the male did, which would make her inferior in other ways than class skills.

Still completely besides the point though since character creation rules are an abstraction for creating exceptional individuals, and generally not something that's normative for every intelligent being in the setting.

>> No.43269871

>>43269792
>Most settings
Not even by a long shot. It's not even true for D&D, never mind pretty much every other setting not meant for little kids.

>Completely negates social expectation
So why are soldiers still mostly male and bar wenches still mostly female? Maybe because the player characters are not the norm, retard.

>> No.43269877

>>43269741
I like you.

>> No.43269888

preemptively requesting that /pol/ go and stay go.

>> No.43269928

>>43269755
>Muh realism.
You're the autist.

>> No.43270446

>>43269226
>world domination
Why would the common man care? Welcome the new boss, same as the old boss, never shows up unless he wants your hard earned farm or taxes.

Then he beats you if you talk back.

>> No.43270487

>>43269672
>With regular easy access to magic and simple healing/fertility rites
Typical fantasy settings don't have those. D&D doesn't even have those, even the cheapest of magical shit is extremely expensive for a commoner.

>> No.43270524

>>43268808
>If they don't, how does their leader keep up morale and pay them enough?
Same way they did historically, executions for disobeying orders.

>> No.43270548

>>43270446
Cause their farm probably got fucked over in the war when a bunch of nutsacks swept across his fields fucking everything up.

>> No.43270552

>>43270446
>Current boss beats you and demands taxes you find unreasonable but generally leaves you alone for the majority of the time

>New boss is an evil lich with an army of orcs who plans on burning down your farm, your house, and everything you know to build a new empire out of it and you'll probably end up a slave or worse.

That's the kind of evil empire we're talking about, not some bog standard human conqueror. If that were the case, why would the OP have specifically used the phrase "good armies"?

>> No.43270563

>>43270446
>Why would the common man care?
We're not talking about common men, you illiterate retard. The OP specifies "good" armies, ie not the 80% of NPCs who are neutral

>> No.43270602 [SPOILER] 

>>43269551
>implying implications
She's looking at the "camera" out of the corner of her eye.
She's looking at the viewer.
And I'm single.
>be poor street kid growing up in the slums
>one day this foreign army rolls in and storms the city, takes it in less than a week
>the old ruler was a fucking dickhead so everybody is excited to see him gone
>be slinking around the crowd at a celebration looking for fat Noble purses to cut
>see one of the foreign knights with the outermost layer of her armor off
>she's beautiful
>tall, well built, and I've never seen hair that color before, like polished copper
>stop and stare
>she sees me
>I freeze
>afraid she's going to kill me for staring at her, it's what the old city guard women liked to do
>she slams me up against the wall and asks me if I have a girlfriend
>her accent is thick, and her pronunciation terrible, but her voice is thick with her intentions
>too scared to lie, tell her I don't
>she kisses me roughly, hungrily, then drags me off to a classy inn, the kind of place I'd never be able to get within a hundred yards of myself
>tosses the innkeeper three gold coins the size of playing cards, tells him to bring us glasses, and three bottles of his finest wine
>once we're in the room, she shoves me down onto the bed

>> No.43270624

>>43268808
There is no "good" army in my pseudo European ca. 17th century setting.

The mercenary armies of the southern part of the continent does not engage in plunder and rape though, they don't need to or have the capacity.
They basically stage mock fights for trade routes between city states wearing archaic armor and weapons, whoever hires the best mercenaries gets the trade routes/goods/inheritance. They rarely lay siege to any place that's actually inhabited (Bad for business for the people who hire them), looting would most likely be from their own paymasters (Which is bad for business), and the mercenaries share guilds and associations across armies (And so kill as few as possible), and

Why yes they're basically just exaggerated condottiere.
No, no one has noticed.

>> No.43270750

>>43269583
> That's it.
No.

>> No.43270842

>>43269814
indeed

>> No.43270881

The all female double soldier regiment gets paid triple for services

>> No.43270905

If they can get away with it. Some individual commanders don't like it, some are fine. It varies based on the exact scenario.

>> No.43270925

>>43270602

Found a new fantasy to fap too. Thankyou anon.

>> No.43270976

>>43269115
This is pretty much how its been done since professional Armies became a thing. You pay the soldiers and they get to fuck prostitute's and such. Pillaging and rape will still happen, but you can actually try to control and punish it then.

If its an unprofessional army, all bets are off.

>> No.43271117

>>43270602
>General's speech to troops after taking the city

"Now remember, we're supposed to be the good guys. A little looting is fine, but lets avoid raping and pillaging if we can. We're supposed to be conquering these people, not butchering them, so we want to put on a nice face. Therefore, after the big parade and during the big celebration, I want each and every one of you to find a local and show them a good time, a courtesy of ours from back home, and pay them for it too. Winning their hearts is half of the battle."

>> No.43271147

>>43269347
>It's not about being evil or amoral, it's about how it's really fucking hard to care after having been through hell for 3 weeks and watching your friends die awful and meaningless deaths.

It's still evil though. Period.
(besides, it's not like those peasants had the ability to surrender the whole city)

>> No.43271166

>>43271147
Well, they could have deserted.

>> No.43271237

>>43271166
Maybe. If it's a walled city, probably not.

The soldiers could have deserted too, they made a choice to be a part in this. They're evil.

>> No.43271392

>>43269115
>>43270976

>> No.43271499

>>43269819
can we not even pretend in fantasyland that women can be good at stuff too?

>> No.43271537

Just pointing out that one of the reasons the 7th century Islamic expansion went so well is because for the first few generations, everyone took Mohammad's injunction against hurting civilians really seriously. The corrupt corrupt Byzantine or Sassanid garrison commander WAS raping your mom and sister every weekend for being the wrong kind of Christian, and taxing your dad into the poor house. Arab sympathizers tell you and your friends on the sly that an army following some kind of heretical Christianity is on its way. They don't hurt women and children or even male civilians after taking a city, because God directly told them it's a Hell-worthy offense. Their prophet, a former banker, with his dying wish told them all to be excellent to each other and to remember that humanity is a unified brotherhood. So when your imperial garrison rides out to fight these Muslims, you lock the gate behind them and decide to take your chances with the Arabs.

Of course, there are exceptions to this policy, there are travesties among all wars and periods. But the Arabs had a reputation for being pretty humane at a time when the Eastern Romans were still committing religious-motivated genocide in their own territories. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_Iconoclasm)

tl;dr: Don't tell /pol/, but the Arabs were basically an army of paladin liberators for a while. This makes ISIS a lot more sick and tragic, really.

>> No.43271539

>>43271499
Of course.

It's just that it's maddening when people pretend real life is like that.

>> No.43271575

>>43271499
But if he can't pretend that he'd be this pretty awesome fighter just on account of being male, how will he then escape his own inherent worthlessness?

>> No.43271605

>>43269347
>unfair ways
You go to a country to fuck it/part of it/its people up. For money. Yes, your friends will be sad and horrified, but there's nothing really unfair about it.

>> No.43271620

>>43271117
>be happily married barmaid
>suddenly dragged off by burly knight while husband watches painfully
>he suddenly stops, sees plain ring on finger and husband
>checks to see we're married, then grabs him too and drags us upstairs
>both confused and terrified as he throws us on the bed and tells us we're going to have a real good time

>rest of the night he gives tips and encouragement and catcalls as he watches

>> No.43271625

>>43269792
>muh boogie-woogie man

>> No.43271638

>>43271539
I don't think anyone was doing that here, but okay. anyway I don't get why everyone makes such a big deal out of it. I'm a pretty average guy, and I can't do any of the stuff that the biggest and best and strongest men can do, and it's not like I can't still distinguish myself, and it's not like I couldn't still be a hero if I was in the right place at the right time. being "superior" doesn't mean shit compared to the chaos of the universe.

>> No.43271641

>>43268808
>Good

No such thing. While humans and the goblins are completely objectively better than their Fey enemies, the humans are still lying sacks of shit stuck in a civil war power vacuum similar to the Shipwreck or Italy during the entire Middle Ages.

If the enemy is besieging your city, it doesn't matter who is knockin' on your door. Get the fuck out.

>> No.43271656

>>43271539
It is indeed maddening to know real people like you exist.

>> No.43271666

>>43271539
I find it far more maddening when people pretend the fantasy world I'm trying to discuss has to conform to real life.

>> No.43271672

>>43271605
Most people go to war because they're obligated to, or because it's their job, not out of any sense of spite or because they're brimming over with evil.

The only real examples I can think of where it's for fun and evil is basically those fucks who go on vacations to be jihadists and rape jazidi girls and posing on facebook, despite living in secular orderly countries themselves.

>> No.43271682

>>43271537
>The Islamic conquest of the middle east was successful because they spared civillians

This is like seven kinds of bullshit.

We know it's bullshit, because it's not even true in the Quran.
The Quran literally features a passage in which people are told to hunt down civilians.

>Their prophet, a former banker,

Come on man.
How the fuck do you even fuck that up?
No, he was not a banker.
Because firstly off we have no records of any banks in Arabia in that period. The closest we have is Greek and Roman banking, which he wouldn't have participated in.
Secondly, we know that he was a trader.
Thirdly, if he had been a banker he hated his fucking job, because that shit is turbo banned in the Quran, and most interpretations of the Sunnah don't even allow for any kind of note keeping vis a vis debt.

Islamic banking is like super new, (Like 20th century new.) and is only allowed through one of the most insane interpretations of the Sunnah I have ever seen. (It's on the level of the orthodox Jews who tie a string around their neighborhood so they never cross into another domain)

>with his dying wish told them all to be excellent to each other and to remember that humanity is a unified brotherhood.

OH COME THE FUCK ON.
HOW DO YOU FUCK THIS UP MAN?
The Isra is Muhammad ascending to heaven, while telling everyone that god is totes for realsies.

So A: That wasn't what he said.
B: He didn't fucking die.

There is literally not a single sentence you have said that has been correct.
Not fucking one.

>> No.43271687

>>43268808
Yeah, I let them eat their food, drink their drink, shit in their toilets, and sleep in their beds. But that's all.

>> No.43271705

>>43271672
>because it's their job
How is that an excuse? Just choose another job!

Being conscripted sucks, I agree.

>> No.43271714

>>43268808
>Do the good armies in your setting pillage and plunder and rape when they capture a city? If they don't, how does their leader keep up morale and pay them enough?
That depends. The setting is somewhat inspired by a mix of early Rome, pre-hellenic Greece and warring states China with highly formalized warfare and a strong "Us" and "Them" feeling.

You take a city as part of an ongoing scuffle between lords of the realm? Keep it together or the lord will end you before rumour of the atrocities you committed brings down everyone else on his head.

Conquering the barbarians outside? Well, they're literally not people so who cares?
>>43268947
This doesn't apply in my setting. In the cases where they do see the battlefield women tend to be what would in modern times be called a CO so usually they'll start with a higher rank than the enlisted troops, plus it's haram to sire offspring while in the field.

You have camp followers for that.

>> No.43271720

>>43271499
Of course we can. I'm not opposed to the notion of doing that. I'm simply explaining that most settings are not like that, and pretending like they are by using bullshit arguments like muh character creation rules doesn't change that.

I'm totally in favour of settings with different norms, standards and cultures than history, but just saying "girls don't get a str penalty=Equality!" is not really tackling the issue.

Bog standard medieval fantasy "but everyone is nice and openminded!" is not exactly brilliant worldbuilding and reduces complex social issues to whether or not people decide to be meanies.

>> No.43271723

>>43271720
>Bog standard medieval fantasy "but everyone is nice and openminded!" is not exactly brilliant worldbuilding and reduces complex social issues to whether or not people decide to be meanies.
Take it up with the devs then not us.

>> No.43271725

>>43268808

1) As history says, all steel-age armies rape and plunder when they capture enemy cities.
2) As history says, all steel-age armies have been human
3) An army that rapes and pillages cannot be Good in alignment by definition
4) Therefore, humans cannot be Good in alignment.

>> No.43271728

>>43271705
>Just choose another job.

Okay I'll just let my family starve because my country is fucked over from civil war and there aren't really any other opportunities for landless men, and the lack of modern communications makes relocating and jobhunting a bitch.

You are
>Why don't they just eat cake?
levels of dumb.

>> No.43271732

>>43271723
>In a thread discussing tropes inherent in the fantasy genre.

>Criticizes a trope

>"Take it up with the devs not us"

Are you actually retarded?

>> No.43271733

>>43271720
>complex social issues
That most people don't care about.

>> No.43271744

>>43271723
I'm not taking it up with you moron, as I was pointing out, I was arguing that most standards ARE NOT equal just because there are no stat penalties for gender, and people sperged out and tried to make it look like I was promoting gender inequality or hated the notion of it.

Make whatever settings you like, but don't tell me there's no gender difference in D&D just because it's not on the character sheet, when the settings show that the genders are clearly not the same or equal.

>> No.43271750

>>43271725
That assumes all armies capture enemy cities, rapes and plunders.

Which is a might false assumption.

It also assumes every nation or state had an army, equally false.

>> No.43271758

>>43271682

Dude, he probably was typing that with a knife against his throat.

>> No.43271763

>>43268808

Pillage and plunder is encouraged, but it's done in an orderly manner. Rape is punished, but not because rape is bad: It's because we don't want you to pollute your body with subhumans. Hence, harsh punishment.

But looting? As long as you make sure that civilians aren't in the buildings before you set them on fire, it's all good.

>> No.43271766

>>43271733
Which is irrelevant when the people in this fucking thread are clearly arguing about them.

Every fucking thread on /tg/ is about something most people don't care about, do you always drop in to point that out or just when you're out of arguments, you piece of shit?

>> No.43271772

>>43271744
>>43271732
Okay then.

>> No.43271774

>>43271744
>it's not on the character sheet
What sort of shit character sheet are you using that doesn't have a space for gender?

>> No.43271776

>>43271725
>All Zs are Xs
>Therefore all Xs are Zs

Come on man.
This is literally kindergarten logic.

>> No.43271782

>>43269551
>Manage a farm outside of town with your new husband, very happy together and might try for a baby soon
>Enemy kingdom attacks and defeats your own, and while not outright evil, you've heard rumors of occasional rape and pillage
>While managing the farm one day, a local runner informs you a group of female soldiers are coming
>FOREIGN SOLDIERS
>Try to hide your husband for his own good, but the soldiers arrive and after searching for goods manage to find him
>You try to stop them, bargain with them, even plead with them as they drag him out but they just beat you down and restrain you
>These women in uniform force you to watch as they take turns raping your husband on the kitchen table while he struggles and sobs in a futile effort to preserve his dignity for the both of you
>They laugh and make terrible comments about his looks and features, before taking what goods they want and leaving
>Your husband is inconsolable at having been defiled before you, and all you can do is try to pick up the pieces of your lives
>Within the year one of the soldiers even returns to leave you with a bastard child, product of the rape
>Stuck forever raising this physical reminder of that painful experience, and things are never truly the same between you

War is hell.

>> No.43271786

>>43271774
HAHAHAHA

(in case you're just retarded, he mean that there aren't any GENDER DIFFERENCES like stat penalties)

>> No.43271789

A typical D&D fantasy-setting army is festooned with divinely empowered clerics who can heal the wounded, cure the sick, purify your food and water and (if they're so inclined) fuck shit up in open combat. Being a soldier in an army in most D&D settings is a significantly less horrible experience than being a soldier in the real-world medieval ages. Also, depending on the setting, the gods are many, demonstrably real, and often actively involved in the world, so the prospect of upsetting your deities by doing some evil shit is much more real than it would otherwise be. It's not too hard to justify why a good-aligned army in particular is not going to act like some destructive rapist animal.

>> No.43271794

>>43270842
Bikini warriors is super interesting!

>> No.43271796

>>43271782
Traumatizing/10

>> No.43271802

There are I'm fairly hesitant to identify any of the factions within my world as "good". Raping and pillaging happens, whenever it's encouraged or disencouraged depends on the particular culture - the Chazaria, being a largely theocratic state disencourages such stuff as it contradicts some of their religious beliefs, while say the Nomadic Empire of Carras feels hardly any remorse about such things. Either way, the core economic factor in my world is slavery, so when a civilian settlement is captured in war, the prime interest of all the soldiers is to round up as many people as they can and put them in shackles.

>>43269583
>That's it
That is actually pretty much the exact opposite of what it really is. Damn, never been to school?

>> No.43271803

>>43271720
like most internet arguments it's probably a case of mistaken intent. he probably just meant that it doesn't make sense to penalize two players playing the same class for something meant to be merely descriptive
the problem people have finding agreements on this topic isn't that the situation is complex, it's that it's really simple.
we're all just playing pretend, it can be whatever you want. it's more fun to ground the setting in real life tropes, but specifically so that you can defy them.

>> No.43271814

>>43271782
>>43269551
>>43270602

Femdom fetishists are just terrible.

>> No.43271817

>>43271789
The fact that mortal armies exist at all clearly shows that the gods are in fact incapable of micromanaging everything.

Also what you described is not at all the norm, because entire armies kitted out with healers and clerics like some 9000 man strong adventurer party would invalidate the whole premise behind D&D style role-playing.

>> No.43271834

>>43268808
>Good armies
Other than a couple of ignorant young misfits and some Lawful Stupid bands of Paladins, either the population is assimilated by some cultures or the standard pillaging commences. The God of revenge, murder and pillage is considered a just God in many cultures.

>> No.43271838

>>43271814
The only reason why we're terrible is because this does not exist IRL, because women are completely incapable of being anything other than parasites.

>> No.43271839

>>43271814
>"MOMMY! THEY'RE DOING IT AGAIN! THAT THING I DON'T LIKE!"

>> No.43271846

>>43271839

No, no. The shame you feel is entirely your own. Live with it.

>> No.43271868

>>43271838
the only problem I have with this mindset is that they forget to also include every male who is not currently in power over all other men
only conquerors have earned the right to live

>> No.43271910

>>43271817
I could swear I saw example population distributions by level somewhere in an official 3/3.5 piece but remember that there is an NPC class with healing spells. In a sufficiently large army you would expect a reasonable number of adepts-or-equivalents which are of course nowhere near as capable as a PC cleric but nonetheless provide healing capability and food safety which makes the whole experience much easier.

>> No.43271913

>>43271814

Who are you trying to convince, bruh?

Does the thought of a girl tying you up and paddling your ass make your dick hard? You don't have to hate yourself, you just have to be honest with yourself.

>> No.43271947

>>43268808
Depends on the armies. The Tree Pillars (human kingdom, dwarven kingdom, and even kingdom) have been at peace with one another for thousands of years. Back in their early years of war this may have happened but such barbaric behavior has since been harshly outlawed. However, the orc armies of the north regularly partake in such lifestyles, kidnapping, raiding, and rapping villages and their citizens. Also, the rival nation across the ocean would also perform such evil acts while pillaging and conquering if they were to ever invade the kingdoms of the Three Pillars.

>> No.43271950

>>43271913

It's really more than I find it effeminate. Not especially bad, on the rung of things, but it's a bit queasy. Sort of like the lower rung of fetishes, or like how enjoying D&D is an acceptable rung of nerdom while being autistic over shows like Steven Universe or MLP is really, really fucking creepy.

Sorry, it's complicated. I just find it a little weird ('unnatural') that's all.

>> No.43272041

>>43271950
"Woman having physical or other sorts of power over men is unnatural", got it.

Don't worry, brah, we get you.

>> No.43272102

>>43271913
>Does the thought of a girl tying you up and paddling your ass make your dick hard?
>paddling
>using a wooden object for the sole purpose of inflicting pain
>not having her slap your ass when you walk past her instead

>> No.43272113

>>43271950

I don't really have a dog in this fight, I'm just curious. Because if someone tried to shame me for liking spanked or stripped women, I'd probably feel pretty shitty. If a guy likes taking off the burden of masculinity in his private life, don't blame him.

And make no mistake, being in control, confident, powerful, jocular, and strong at all times is a burden and responsibility no one asked to be born into. It's hard to be a man. If a dude likes being subjugated by men, that's his business, too.

Only people who bring it up in real life at weird times are truly worthy of scorn. /tg/ is entirely about people with unusual hobbies playing pretend, to various extents. It's no surprise that it tends to come out in conversation. I try not to judge, except fucking bronies.

>> No.43272116

>>43271950
I have a non TG/ question but it has to do with what you just mentioned. I adore Steven Universe and if I am alone at home when I watch a new episode I get more outwardly excited than I would like to be. Is this more of an autistic thing or just me getting excited? Btw I don't buy any merchandise for the show or anything, I just watch the show, but Damn I think it's a good show.

>> No.43272180

Wars in my setting are mostly fought out in the vast ruined wilderness, mostly over the ruins of the magical superculture that existed before. The ruins are important because they contain the magitech stuff that made the culture so great, and different nations want that shit because they want to be like that superculture was. I.E incredibly powerful. These "wars" are mostly skirmishes and small-scale engagements between troops that encounter each other.

Nations are usually far apart and have no real need to fight over resources or space. Monsters and nonhuman races that threaten the borders keep the edge off any needless ideological bickering. Or most of it, anyway. This has made wars this kind of weird, almost neutral affair, where people back home very seldom actually internalize the fact that their soldiers are killing some other nation's soldiers out there somewhere, and getting killed in turn. It's a weirdly detached affair.

So no, probably no looting and raping, since there's just not much war in that manner. The victor gets to loot the ruins though, so that's a thing.

Except in Hern and the surrounding lands. Fuck that powderkeg of a shitpile.

>> No.43272189

>>43268808
>good armies
Why yes, yes they do.

>no no I meant morally upstanding armies
You whatnow? That's not even a thing.

>> No.43272225

>>43272102

I love the sound of a paddle or a switch on a woman's ass. Especially some Gallic whore who was throwing rocks at me from their bullshit wooden mott. Why would I not assume some dude likes to hear the same thing as Centuria Tertia goes to town on his ass? These damn


>>43272116

I say "Fuck yeah, new Rick and Morty!" when that shit comes on. Don't feel bad. Maybe you just are having a rough time and you get a shot of dopamine from the show, man. I might suggest finding other things that make you happy like that and filling your life with them. If your brain gets too used to one limited thing for its dopamine, you become obsessed/addicted. See also: Dudes who can only jerk it to gundams having sex.

>> No.43272239

>>43272116
If you have to ask if being as excited as you are about something you like is normal, it's probably autism. Also, just for liking that shit you're probably autistic, so it's redundant.

>> No.43272242

>>43272225

These damn Gauls need to learn respect before we ship them South.

>> No.43272338

>>43272225
>Paddling a ferocious Gaul female warrior
You'd better do that to discipline her into becomeing your loyal mindbroken bodyguard who will defend you until death.

>> No.43272395

>>43271682
>Quran tells people to hunt civvies

What massage please? Dont tell me you just sprouting /pol/ shit

And yes he was wrong, Mohammed was actually a former merchant

>> No.43272409

>>43272225
Oh I'm having a rough time alright. Roommate literally is draining me of all my money by not giving me rent money. Luckily I got the lease cut but I still have two more payments. He will owe me over 1000 dollars by the time I get to cut his dumb ass loose. Hell if he did not fuck me out of so much I could have gotten the new DnD 5e book.

As for other things to do, I play DnD weekly, and I may be getting a date this week. Hopefully it goes well :)

>> No.43272439

>>43272239
I ask because I want others opinions. So thanks for your opinion. However, I don't think liking a show is automatic grounds for being labeled autistic. Though tbh, if I am autistic then idc because I have a great security job and have been maintaining an apartment almost completely by myself, because God forbid roommates help out with chores or hold down a job for longer than 6 months.

>> No.43272451

>>43272395

Not him (not even sure that guy is still around since that post is like 2 hours old), but yes the Quran says that killing civilians is perfectly fine as long as they are not believers in Islam. After Mohammed left to Medina the shit he wrote (or more specifically had written for him) was..lets just say it was a lot more balls to the wall insane.

The writings from Mecca, his first writings, are all about peace, tolerance and love. Medina? not so much. Hell the Medina period of Mohammeds life began with him allowing his followers to raid trade caravans for supplies and food because nobody liked him and his followers. This allowance of caravan raiding ended up getting him a lot of followers from Arab tribes who survived from the practice, thus giving Mohammed a sizable army of raiders and followers.

>> No.43272498

>>43268808
>Do the good armies in your setting pillage and plunder and rape when they capture a city?
no.
>how does their leader keep up morale
well helps that the army only recruits mentally and emotionally stable people. And trains them to be disciplined.

Fact that a good army is usually built to fight an evil one means that the ever looming fact that if they lose everyone they care about would be raped and murdered by the evil army makes for great motivation.
>and pay them enough?
I would assume they budgeted for that before building the army. seriously what kind of idiot builds armies with no plan on how to pay them, even U.S. diverts a fuckton of tax money to keep its armies paid.

>> No.43272514

>>43272395
>What massage please? Dont tell me you just sprouting /pol/ shit

Surah 9.
When muslims are told to hunt them down, ambush them, besiege them, and so on, what exactly do you think he meant?
Giving them a hug?

>> No.43272531

>>43272451
To be fair, the caravan raids are not directly described in the Quran. We can infer that they are what is being talked about because of the timing and because of secondary sources like the Sunnah and the biographies.

>> No.43272556

>>43272409

TELL HIM. YOU WILL. KICK. HIS. ASS. OUT.

Don't take shit from no one. Change the locks, dump his shit in the hall, send the new key to your landlord, and AirBnB that fucker's room.

And finally, who the fuck cares if you're on the autism spectrum? So was Einstein, probably. He changed the course of human history and got tons of trim while he was doing it. Get pussy, and spread your autism over the face of the Earth.

If I ever besiege someone, anon. I'm gonna invite you to the ensuing party when we finally get those gates open.

>>43272338

Roman, please. Of course I am keeping any slaves I personally capture during a siege. If she ever gives me lip, I swear I will let the other serva gang ban her with strap-ons again.

>> No.43272606

>>43272498
>I would assume they budgeted for that before building the army. seriously what kind of idiot builds armies with no plan on how to pay them, even U.S. diverts a fuckton of tax money to keep its armies paid.
Almost every warlord ever before the modern times
yes, there are few exceptions

>> No.43272616

>>43272451
It's also worth contributing the justification given though. The medieval mindset was that killing civilians in visible, brutal ways ends wars more quickly as it breaks the enemies will to fight. A war that ends quickly ultimately saves more civilian lives than a drawn out war. From a strictly utilitarian standpoint, this IS how a good army would operate... which is likely a problem for utilitarian philosophy more than anything.

>> No.43272631

>>43272556
Rofl thanks for the support anon. And I would of kicked him out but since he was signed on the lease (a horrible mistake on my part) he has just as much right to live there as me despite not paying rent. At least I can force him to pay me for any moving out costs. Also I have besieged before but if besiege this girl I'll let you know :)

>> No.43272632

>>43272498
>well helps that the army only recruits mentally and emotionally stable people.
Yes, I'm sure armies have time for that, not to mention the tools needed to do a psych eval in YE OLD MEDIEVAL TIMES

>> No.43272650

>>43272632
Who said my setting was set in Medieval times?

>> No.43272653

>>43272498

If you are curious how pre-20th century armies were paid, check out the first half of DEBT: The First 5,000 Years.

http://www.amazon.com/Debt-The-First-000-Years/dp/1612191290

Basically makes the argument that currency, debt, and the nation state grew around the need to pay dudes with spears to go out and kill other people to take their stuff. Greber argues that Empires are what happens when you have more guys with arms than you can pay, so the ruling class has to find new conquerable lands all the time, just to pay the existing army.

>> No.43272659

>>43272650
because for over a hundred posts, people have been talking about a medieval armies?

>> No.43272674

>>43272659
well, that's their settings, not mine.

>> No.43272708

>>43272674
Should have specified that, but fair enough.

>> No.43272709

>>43272616

Pretty much, people tend to forget, or try to ignore, just how fucking violent it was back in the day.

I mean hell even Kingdom of Heaven toned it down a lot.

>> No.43272782

>>43268808
>Do the good armies in your setting pillage and plunder and rape when they capture a city?

I'd image that somebody would have to roll a critical success in D&D for them to not kill everything as everything in D&D is wont to...

Other rulesets probaby suggest laws governing the siege and rituals that can de-escalate the situation away from rape&plunder even after the siege has begun.

>> No.43272831

>>43268808
>Do the good armies in your setting pillage and plunder and rape when they capture a city? If they don't, how does their leader keep up morale and pay them enough?

If it's a human army taking a human city from another faction? Absolutely not. We're all in this together.

But if humans take a city that's predominantly elves or orcs? Maybe even dwarves? Some of it is going to happen, despite standard orders not to.

>> No.43272889

>>43272451
Nah, that caravan raid never implemented in quran, since its haram to unreasonably killing innocent people even they are not a muslim. A raid are just prominent practice of medieval age that most people cant get it over, not because the god are telling them to

>> No.43272949

>>43271839
Well the problem I have with it is that it would never work in almost any setting except a magical realm one just because men are stronger.

>> No.43272952

>>43272889

"Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." - quran 2: 216

This verse was transcribed during Mohammeds time in Medina when he was authorizing these raids. I never said that Mohammed specifically wrote that raiding was okay in the quran, I said that he was allowing it, and he allowed it through verses like this.

>> No.43273007

"only conquerors have earned the right to live."

So basically everyone on /tg/ including the person that said this doesn't have a right to live, then.

Have people here played RPGs so long they think they're as badass as their characters? Is the autism this strong?

>> No.43273051

>>43268808
>>Implying we need an army to capture a city

>> No.43273212

>>43273007
I'm slightly more perturbed by all the people saying RAPE AND LOOTING IS INEVITABLE AND REALISTIC, OF COURSE I MAKE SURE IT HAPPENS IN MY SETTING.

Like you literally control the fictional world and you still choose to make it as terrible a place as middle ages IRL. I'll never understand the mindset of people who feel the need to make everything as negative as possible even when it's in their power not to.

>> No.43273260

>>43273212
That's also something that bugs me, anon.

I'm sorry that you can't rape without being punished anymore, guys, but acting like you're complete badasses when you're a neckbeard is... incompatible.

You post on 4chan. You'd be the people getting butchered, not the other way around.

Remember when /tg/ wore the badge of neckbeard with pride? What happened to us?

>> No.43273305

>>43273212
I can't speak for others but personally I don't make my world as dark as the middle ages, but you still have to have evil in your world for your adventurers to contend against. A world without evil is sorta boring to adventure through. And with that evil comes orcs who will plunder your gold and your butthole in the most violent way possible. Though tbh they are much more likely to kill or enslave you than rape you.

>> No.43273311

>>43268808
my armies are nice people though :(

>> No.43273382

The only race with a structured army at this point are Dwarves, and they for the most part use it to fight between clans. Plunder is a thing, but to harm civilians is dishonorable and would lead to other clans to be justified in retributive attacks against them.

>> No.43273636

>>43271682
So much stupidity in one post. Maybe you should leave your momma's basement once in a while.

>> No.43273656

>>43268808
In our setting, you become an almost unstoppable killing machine if you follow the God of Chivalry (as he turns you into one), but he is quick to denounce you (he also strips all your powers in the process) and order your unstoppable killing machine ex-comrades to burn you on a stake for your sins.

So no pillage and plunder, and definitely no rape (no sex at all, not even consensual). There is a lot of heretic/sinner/witch burning though.

>> No.43273776

>>43271725
I dunno how 100% of humanity has yet to have a perfect understanding of psychopathy by now, but most people are okay (read: neutral), but the psychopaths and near-psychopaths out there are responsible for the vast majority of evil (practically all of it, if you consider that their actions lead to regular people doing evil).

>> No.43273796

>>43273212
It's a matter of opinion obviously, but gritty settings are fun because it gives characters more opportunity to struggle.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the occasional unambiguous good guys defeat unambiguous evil threat as much as the next guy every now & then, but it's not the default for me.

>> No.43273892

Never send an army off on a holy crusade without a contingent of elderly nuns to glare at the soldiers whenever they think about sinning. Its a mixture of moral superiority, faith in the grace of god, and pavlovian conditioning to fear old women in habits.

>> No.43273930

>>43269164
To be fair the numbers for sexual harassment are probably similar with male to male as well, but their usually done with a joking intent. Women just report it more.

>> No.43273947

>>43273796
>>43273305
I guess, I just don't see the point if everyone's evil or close to it. What is there to fight for? Why would you fight alongside anyone if they're gonna behave that way? There's no-one to actually root for or support, it's just the party against a world they don't have the resources or the time needed to actually fix properly.

Iunno, I get worked up easily, kind of too emotionally sensitive for tabletop for the most part. I barely like it when unambiguous villains go into that level of dog-kicking, much less people who are supposed to be theoretically around the setting average for ethics, or even relatable/'allies'. I'd probably be a terrible GM, there wouldn't be enough work for adventurers.

>> No.43273988

>>43268808
If by "good" you mean "elite", then no. Because the commander brings a group of whores and pays them well enough to keep the peace with the civvies.

If by "good" you mean "good aligned", there may be some cases in which the temptation is too strong for someone.

>> No.43273994

>>43268808

>good armies

>> No.43274003

>>43268808
There are no "Good armies". Every nation has among its people those we'd call Good or Evil. The nature of their conquest is usually determined by the commanders, by the leaders back home, and by the culture of the nation.

For instance, the Republican Roman soldier before Marius' Reforms was a Roman citizen. In normal circumstances, he could not kill. But as a soldier, he took an oath. And according to this oath, he became a tool, and he followed the orders of his commander, whichever they may be. The Roman employed terror tactics, murdering the shit out of opposing towns and happily looting them. Not for the individual advantage of the soldier, but as a general policy. The individual soldier was the pinnacle of civilisation. He did not enjoy killing, but he had enough self control to put himself to it in service of his people.

>> No.43274044

>>43272952
The verse you mention not to encourage people to raid and plunder, but its mean that you fight because you must. The verse was descended around period of Bhadar/Uhud war, in the state of urgency because the people of medina in that time dont want to wage war in holy month.
The raid you mentionis is to cut enemy supply line, not random pirate raid.

>> No.43274057

>>43273947
>I just don't see the point if everyone's evil or close to it
If people are just doing what is considered normal, everyday behavior, they aren't evil.It sounds like you let your own morals inform you when it should be your character's morals informing you. Its ok, you seem, like you said, a little sensitive, which is cool. Some people enjoy pretending to be something alien to themselves, or at least find it easy to isolate their character from their own sense of morals.

>There's no-one to actually root for or support
There's yourself. It can be noble, desperate, enraged and violent, or a sad acceptance that the world might never change. There are stories to be told there.

Although, when the setting is all gritty and grim, you can always go full noble on it. Trying to be the pillar of light in a dark world is a difficult path, and RPing it can be a hell of a good experience.

>> No.43274061

Go full Sacred Band of Thebes.

Every barracks wakes up one morning to find an unmarked box full of fliers offering advice on same-sex relations and intimacy and pointing out the benefits for recreation, stress relief and team-building.

If the soldiery has their urges sated with regular activity then it cuts down on the use of cheap whores, which can cause disease, and the motivation for the troops to rape someone as part of their victory celebrations when they can be having consensual relations with their comrades at the victory party.

As for pillaging, maybe a bonus in their paycheck taken from the coffers of the enemy, but not any direct looting.

>> No.43274118

>>43274061
>As for pillaging, maybe a bonus in their paycheck taken from the coffers of the enemy, but not any direct looting.
"And no looting! If I hear anyone has done any looting, everyone misses out on their end-of-siege bonus, do you hear me? All it takes is one inconsiderate person to ruin it for everyone!"

>> No.43274133

>>43274061
Well, sodomy's certainly a way to avoid rape... I guess.

>> No.43274168

No, the closest thing to a good army hires thousands of whores to be banged twice a day per soldier (assuming they want to) and the armies reach hundreds of thousands, so the officers get the first go each day.

>> No.43274193

>>43274133
If they can get their requisite humping done in a safe and consensual way on a regular basis then they won't be as desperate to engage in reprehensible ways to engage in said humping.

Seems logical to me.

Besides helps cut down on disease if their sex partners are other soldiers who've all passed their medical exams rather than any random piece of peasant ass they happen to stumble across.

>> No.43274198

>>43273892
>and all the nuns died of marching thousands over miles over land and sea through strange lands, malnourished, diseased and exhausted

>> No.43274213

>>43274168
Forgot to add: 3rd of the money the whores make go back to the king through taxes and as for plundering the army is allowed to take only coins, the king then decides afterwards what to do with the rest of the valuables.

>> No.43274215

>>43274198
>thinking old nuns can die

>> No.43274216

>>43274193
It helps if you find men who are into other men...

With your way of doing things, we'd have to worry about our soldiers raping each other too...

>> No.43274250

>>43274216
Both valid points. Of course if I have free reign to invent a fantasy setting then I'd say that there was never any stigma against same-sex relations in this culture and sexuality isn't considered as huge a deal.

As in you wouldn't have people who identify as 100% straight all day every day and if they so much as see an erect dick they feel unclean or tainted in some way, or might at the very least consider doing something intimate to relieve their urges.

That and have serious punishments in place for hurting or assaulting another soldier in any situation.

Wouldn't be universal probably, but if this is a truly different culture that grew up in a different setting it could work. After all the Sacred Band of Thebes really did exist and essentially the entire force was composed of male lovers.

Not every culture in the real world has the same spectrum of sexuality as the modern west, I see no reason why fantasy cultures couldn't have a similarly foreign system.

>> No.43274283

>>43274250
Of course you can do that if you're the GM.

You sound like a reasonable enough guy: I hope you have fun with your games, anon!

>> No.43274314

>>43274283
Thanks, I guess.

I was mostly joking, but it could be used as an interesting bit of flavor or a way to begin introducing players to a different culture by hearing about one of their military expedition's practices that the locals find strange.

Really I just like exploring different fantasy cultures and exploring things with historical inspiration beyond the usual medieval europe with the serial numbers filed off.

>> No.43274322

>>43274057
>If people are just doing what is considered normal, everyday behavior, they aren't evil.

We're talking about murder, rape and pillage here, though - that ISN'T normal by any stretch of the imagination and only the evil would consider it tolerable, much less acceptable or 'normal'. This isn't exactly a topic that lends itself to moral relativism - shit's pretty unambiguously evil and the only ones who would disagree are the same.

>> No.43274366

>>43274314
>Really I just like exploring different fantasy cultures and exploring things with historical inspiration beyond the usual medieval europe with the serial numbers filed off.

Then we have something in common. Although I am currently in a modern-day environment game, maybe one day I'll play a mob/mafia inspired game or somesuch... we'll see.

>> No.43274394

>>43274322
>This isn't exactly a topic that lends itself to moral relativism - shit's pretty unambiguously evil and the only ones who would disagree are the same
Except i'm not unambiguously evil and I am arguing? You think that stuff is evil because the values of the society in which you were raised dictate as such, there is no underlying moral objectivity to it, just the need for a society to punish rape as it makes the control and trade of women's reproductive capacity that much more difficult if allowed to go unchecked. If that's your idea of the definition of evil, then sure. Otherwise, as uncomfortable as it makes you, moral relativism it is.

>> No.43274491

>>43269465
Mechanics aren't physics, dude. This is as retarded as "lol housecats"

>> No.43274494

> pillage and plunder

Yes

> rape

Actually banned,but it does happen occasionally. Men are more likely victims than women.

>> No.43274498

>>43271237
Deserting an army in ancient times would be a summary death sentence at best, and that's if you're caught. If you do get away you can't go home or you'll just be executed there (plus embarrassing your family for producing a deserter). Anywhere else in the world you will subject to ostracism for being a foreigner AND a deserter. If you are particularly unlucky you may even be excommunicated from your place of worship for being such an unfaithful servant of god (because the person who runs the army is buddies with god, obvs).

The societies of ancient times expect and demand absolute fealty to your lords. When you are called upon to take part in an army you go, or you face either death or banishment.

>> No.43274528

>>43271910
Then you run up against the problem that in combat those healers are automatically a major priority target for the enemy army.

Remember kids, shoot the medic first.

>> No.43274531

>>43274394
>Except I'm not unambiguously evil
You're arguing that things every single society on earth has had taboos against in some form or another and that no-one good would ever even consider aren't evil.

Like what do I say to that. What do you say to someone who thinks murder and rape are okay, and that they have a leg to stand on arguing they're not wrong?
This is why I avoid /tg/ these days, y'all got some hella creepy folks campin' out.

>> No.43274574

>>43274494
>men are more likely victims than women.
Why?

>> No.43274615

>>43274574

Women are taller and stronger than men.

>> No.43274619

>>43274531
>You're arguing that things every single society on earth has had taboos against in some form or another and that no-one good would ever even consider aren't evil.
And I explained the reason why, at least in the case I stopped to examine, these taboos exist.

I have a degree in anthropology from an excellent university, its extremely likely I understand what I'm talking about better than you do here, but its also 20 to 2 in the morning and I can't be arsed arguing with you. Thanks for calling me evil I guess.

You're just under the impression that certain societal values you hold are not, in fact, societal values, but human default settings. Its ok, like, 99.99% of humans do that. It doesn't make you any less wrong, but it doesn't make you weird.

>> No.43274670

>>43274574
not that guy but probably just numbers game at this point.
>10 dudes
>1 chick
>the chick dies in a few days
>10 primo bussies for fun

also the easiest way to keep an army from raping and pillaging is to instill an ethos into them during their training that is enforced by not only their direct command but also through shaming from contemporaries. As for morale give them a reason to fight beyond money like for country or better yet for their battle brothers.

>> No.43274704

>>43268808
My setting has detailed history going back over 5000 years and the way defeated cities are dealt with varies over time. There are also differences between the different species involved.

I use the term "species" because unlike traditional fantasy settings, none of the different sentient groups in the setting are capable of interbreeding. Being so different allows an "us Vs them" mindset so powerful that slaughtering 90% of an enemy populace is completely fine but rape is repugnant. This repugnance comes not only from the concept of rape being wrong but also because of the idea that having sex with another species is disgusting (and most likely worthy of execution). It was odd when they made first contact with humanity and were quickly greeted with proposals from millions of lonely basement dwellers.

>>43271763
So basically like this guy said.

As far as plundering goes it depends more heavily on the species doing so. Some pillage and burn without any regulation in order to blow off some steam. Others have a very mechanical mindset and actually enjoy sitting down and carefully stripping valuables to be divided up later. After the chaos of battle, perhaps some regularity and order is what everyone needs.

>> No.43274756

>>43273260
Demographics flow, people migrate, new people is younger and younger, young people it's iliterate, unexperienced and unaware of inner jokes, board memes and pastas.

>> No.43274778

>>43274619
Oh, no, I do acknowledge what you're saying, but it's still pointless intellectualism that focuses more on the philosophy than the reality. Moral absolutism is generally a pretty dumb thing, but it takes a special kind of asshole to genuinely argue going out of your way to harm innocents en masse isn't a clearly shitty thing to do.

Like we're outta the realm of morality into common fucking sense here. The fact you're more concerned about explanations and definitions of words and semantics than the reality of 'yes, most people anywhere in the world would avoid you and acknowledge you as a fuckin' douchebag for doing all of the above' is kind of disconcerting. Like, caring more about semantics than other people.

As I said. Y'all kinda creepy folks sometimes, /teeg/.....

>> No.43274792

>>43268808
You say "army" as if they're not just government sanctioned whalers who keep running into enemy warships. These girls just wanna get their whales, m9.

>> No.43274808

>>43274778
The point was that in a setting wherein doing something is normal, a character in said setting isn't evil from an internal veiwpoint, and when roleplaying in this setting your own definition of evil is not relevant to the characters.

>> No.43274809

In my setting, it depends on the nation-state in question, and whether or not 'good' is an objective term here. In my setting, it isn't.

Battlefield salvage is considered a high priority as standard procedure for everyone because foraging on the enemy for equipment, food, and supplies is just sensible wartime strategy, but civilian settlements under occupation warrant a totally different approach for anyone professional or civilized.

Some barbarian hordes will do it as they are wont to do and find it totally acceptable, but the more professional armies are all over the place on this topic. Some will rape and pillage, others won't do it at all, and in plenty of cases it's a hanging offense or something really vile that just happens to slip the net because the army has a few psychos and bad eggs in it.

In a lot of cases, there's little incentive because camp followers are a thing. In other cases, not so much.

This is a really situational thing, but the important part is that even in the 'neutral' or 'evil' armies, it's generally not considered acceptable even if it happens.

>> No.43274844

>implying "rape, pillage, plunder" was standard modus operandi for any army other than viking warbands, mongols, and early modern mercenary troops
>implying an army that HAS to pillage because your pay is shit will remain loyal to you

laughing_romans.jpg

>> No.43274889

>>43274844
It was actually standard operating procedure for medieval armies in Europe if they didn't have a large baggage train.

Most armies opted not to carry an extensive baggage train because it slowed them significantly, and could only last so long. Instead, they went for a "live off the land" approach, plundering the local settlements for food (and other valuables) so as to feed themselves and reduce the enemy's economic capacity (if they happened to be in enemy territory).

And this doesn't even cover city takeovers.

>> No.43274919

>>43274844
>occupy it and tax it instead
What is the difference?

>> No.43274951

>>43274528
Camp followers don't go into battle, anon.

>> No.43274980

>>43274951
They don't need to.

Send some commandos or spies in, start killing the medics, and quietly leave. Adequate use of a suicide squad forced into the task under duress, if your army rolls that way.

>> No.43275000

>>43274808
No, but I can think of very few settings where such a thing would be considered normal to the point where PCs would be expected to simply deal with it as a reality of the setting - most developers aren't stupid enough to come up with something that endorses that kind of normalisation of brutality. It doesn't sell, and all it does is attract unwanted controversy while alienating a majority of players, who enjoy /tg/ material to be heroic figures or charming rogues who perform minor misdeeds for ultimately more grand and positive designs. Even from an internal viewpoint, harming people doesn't suddenly become not-harming them just because one or two villains thinks it's a good way to pass time.

Besides, why is a character's internal-to-the-setting-viewpoint relevant when the crux of the discussion in the OP assumes some level of defined morality, and my own initial comment was related to the external/metaconsiderations aspect of gaming it up? Obviously there's been some kind of miscommunication along the way which I'm sorry about, but we seem to be having different arguments here...

>> No.43275004

>>43274980
Which is why no army in the history of ever had medical personnel among their numbers, right?

>> No.43275020

>>43268808
Seeing as their two main enemies are a species of giant insects and a machine army, not so much.

Though there's been more than a few cases of a good ol fashioned bug boil when rations run out. Soldiers try not to talk about it much, but there's no official sanction against it since any enemy of their nation is not considered a person and less than cattle.

They taste vaguely like crawfish with hints of beef.

>> No.43275036

>>43268947
>peasants
>droopy
They spend all day working their back, arms, and glutes you soft, precious little noble.

>> No.43275044

>>43274844
>laughing_romans.jpg
You mean the guys who founded their nation with a mass rape of a nearby village?

>> No.43275045

>>43268808

> Commissars.

That's how.

>> No.43275088

>>43275004
I DID say above that the healers are a priority target by default.

So basically no matter what, kill the healer first. If it's a camp follower, do it with a suicide squad or artillery with good info on where to direct the catapults.

Really, there's no reason you wouldn't. The army loses its healers and medics, they're fucked. Just focus on killing them as a priority target of opportunity.

>> No.43275092

>>43275044
"But muh classic civilization. bastion of civility and culture, of fine arts and peace across the continent" is how i would imagine the guys would reply

>> No.43275097

>>43269164
Does anyone know what it's like with Israel considering they probably have the most even mixed gender ratio?

>> No.43275100

>>43268808
Depends on the background of the war.

>> No.43275103

>>43274919
People take the whole "pay taxes and you'll be part of our empire" thing better than "hey, we just killed and/or enslaved all your buddies a village over and took all their shit."

>> No.43275123

This thread has made me wonder a few things.

Would a mixed gender army still require camp followers? Would an all female army require camp followers? Would either of those still rape, and would it matter if they were professional or militia?

Would elves rape and pillage, or just pillage and act like they are too good to touch humans?

If a normal army won a victory against the first one, would they even need to rape villagers or would they just rape the fallen? Or say fuck it and do both?

Did armies ever kidnap women from villages just to rape for the rest of the march and then sell them into slavery later or something?

If you were invading a nation of undead or a demon occupied area that had no food/women to pillage, would you just pack extra rations and double the pay for whores to convince them to follow you into the wasteland? Would it be better to operate in smaller groups that are just a dozen times better equipped and trained or could you just have like a logistics wizard for making food?

Would a logistics wizard be able to summon whores to keep an army going and how hard would it be to convince a succubus to do that for like a month straight?

>> No.43275134

>>43275103
At first sure.

I was mostly just taking the piss anyway.

>> No.43275150

>>43269164
Our definition of sexual assault includes most things people consider harassment elsewhere, not to mention most of the figures are estimates based in the idea that only about 10% of incidents are reported, so take those numbers with a grain of salt.

>> No.43275159

>>43268808
By being well paid and getting Hooker Tickets.

>> No.43275179

>>43275123
>If you were invading a nation of undead or a demon occupied area that had no food/women to pillage
They have undead women and demon girls, boy!

>> No.43275219

>>43275123
>Would a mixed gender army still require camp followers?
Yes. Not all camp followers were hookers, though it IS often used as a euphemism for such. And yes, a mixed gender army would still need the hookers, both male and female, because not everybody is going to hook up with other soldiers.
>Would an all female army require camp followers?
Yes. Women get keyed up and horny too, anon.
>Would either of those still rape
Yes.
>Would a logistics wizard be able to summon whores to keep an army going
Probably.
>how hard would it be to convince a succubus to do that for like a month straight?
Probably not very, but a bad idea. Unless you LIKE the idea of all your soldiers losing their souls to the demoncunt you decided to summon instead of some nice, mortal hoes.

>> No.43275241

>>43275123
>Would a mixed gender army still require camp followers?
Yes. People who will fix and wash your uniforms and do various other services are always going to be in demand.
>Would either of those still rape, and would it matter if they were professional or militia?
Depends on how professional and disaplined a force they are. Likely to happen? Sure, there's always going to be some bad apples, it's just a question of whether it's isolated or widespread.

>> No.43275242

>>43275123
>If you were invading a nation of undead or a demon occupied area that had no food/women to pillage, would you just pack extra rations and double the pay for whores to convince them to follow you into the wasteland? Would it be better to operate in smaller groups that are just a dozen times better equipped and trained or could you just have like a logistics wizard for making food?
this is part of the reason that undead armies do a toll on soldier morale.

>> No.43275283

>>43268808
>good
No such thing.

>pillage
Absolutely not. We intend to use this farm later on, damn it.
>plunder
Yes. After the city has been conquered, they of course exact a tithe in order to ensure all losses are recouped and they can be paid. All plunder is delivered to the reigning general's quartermaster, and then divided. Any plunder kept from the quartermaster is stolen both from the city and, far more importantly, the army and so the Incarnate himself.
>rape
Absolutely not. That is a symbol of utmost decadence and lack of restraint. However, many of the population I am sure will be convinced to become concubines.
>keep up morale
Extreme discipline, religious indoctrination (believed by the generals too- it's not calculated to be indoctrination, it's a legit religion) and very good prospects for reaching above your station if you act honourably enough- think the hidalgos in the tercios, only with commoners.
>pay them enough
Taxes and plunder, which is really just another tax.

>> No.43275380

>>43268808
Plunder, sure I guess, good adventurers seem to get away with it so I don't see why others shouldn't. Rape, no, solely because personally I don't want to deal with that kind of thing. I guess they must rely on the mixed-gender nature of most armies and also camp followers to stay satisfied.

>> No.43275427

>>43275044
kidnapping and holding someone captive isn't rape though. "rapere" just means "to steal". maybe if y'all had learned some Latin instead of muh standardized tests, you'd know that.

>> No.43275451

>>43271499
Oh come the fuck on. Nobody is saying women can't be good at stuff, holy shit it's just that they're arguing wheter or not player levels mean ALL women and men have equal biological capacities within the setting
Way to miss the point to play victim, faggot

>> No.43275455

>>43275427
They're both equally totally useless.

>> No.43275458

>>43268947
>Not much need for rape when you've got mixed gender troops.

Hi there, 15 year old virgin.

>> No.43275492

>>43275283
This.
Or you could have a large amount of whores to fuck the soldiers. Either way, I like to do this.

>> No.43275498

>>43269115
whores accompanied armies since the beginning of time. Rape still happened and will always happen.

>> No.43275544

>>43275123

Why should an all Female or,mixed gender army not rape?

>> No.43275551

>>43275498
Yep. In a lot of cases, captured women get forced into prostitution for armies and thus raped.

>> No.43275565

>>43275551
>capture a woman
>force her to fuck
>pay her for her troubles

Something seems a bit off here.

>> No.43275596

>>43275565
People can force other people to do dirty things like prostitution.

>> No.43275604

>>43275565
Have you never heard of a pimp?

>> No.43275605

>>43275544
Well the idea was that a mixed army would just fuck each other, and an all female army would have a harder time raping due to being female and possibly look down on the act more.

>> No.43275659

>>43275605
>all female army would have a harder time raping due to being female and possibly look down on the act more.
In what way does that make sense at all.

Why would it be harder? They're an army. I'm assuming if they have the opportunity to rape they've won, so...why would it be harder?

And why would they look down on it more? To my knowledge, there's nothing biological that says "are you male? if so, rape. If not, don't".

>> No.43275666

>>43275565
because the prisoner whore can keep the money... how naive are you?

>> No.43275699

>>43275666
Nah, let her keep some of it, just tax the rest, that way, you're getting back some of the money you pay your soldiers in wages.

Also, she has to pay a whore licensing fee.

>> No.43275715

>>43275605
Rape is not only done to satisfy your sexual desires. Actually, in most cases rape happened to humiliate the broken enemy.
Your soldier from your mixed gender army can totally fuck his gf/bf at the morning, then go to conquer a city and then rape some captured enemy soldiers just to humiliate them even more. Those pics from that prison in iraq would be a perfect example for that even women can do such things.

>> No.43275720

>>43273212
Because playing fluffy fantasyland or purity and rainbows doesn't relate to reality at all.
And if I'm going for an even minimally realistic setting...

Plus, why would I remove something because it's evil, I do include murder and war, why should I remove Rape? Is it because it hurts your feelings? Sod off.
Sure I'll warn players if I'm going for a setting like that, but there's nothing that screams "Doooon't ever include this in campaigns".
>inb4 but muh rape
No this is about getting to do things without people complaining others' settings don't cater to them.

>> No.43275756

>>43275605
>an all female army would have a harder time raping due to being female and possibly look down on the act more.
In a CDC study in 2010, men reported being forced to penetrate at the same rate that women reported rape.

>> No.43275772

>>43275756
>being forced to penetrate women
Well that's an interesting way to put it if I've ever seen one.

>> No.43275777

>>43275659
>Why would it be harder?

Because it is easier to force your dick into someone's hole than force someone's dick into your hole. You also need to keep them up in the second instance.

Unless you are a lesbian in which case it would be easy to get the victim off but hard to get them to get you off.

>And why would they look down on it more?

Because women are generally the ones getting raped, so they tend to be a bit more empathetic to victims of it.

>> No.43275795

>>43275777
>Because it is easier to force your dick into someone's hole than force someone's dick into your hole. You also need to keep them up in the second instance.
It's not that much harder. Just hold them down, then fuck them. Pretty similar, honestly.

>Because women are generally the ones getting raped, so they tend to be a bit more empathetic to victims of it.
That is not how people work.

>> No.43275803

>>43275756
>being forced to penetrate

Why did they not just say rape?

Are there instances where you could be forced to penetrate a woman by the woman that would not be rape?

>> No.43275808

To be honest I just can't imagine going heavily into this stuff while playing a game with friends.

>> No.43275809

>>43275772
I'm under the impression that in much of yankland due to how the definition of rape is worded legally (something about placing bits in places), a woman blackmailing you in to sex or holding a gun to your head is not rape where the same act with sexes swapped is. But then, I could have been mislead.

>> No.43275816

>>43275777
>rape can be lots of things. It hasn't to be "dick into hole". Don't you think a female soldier can think of some other ways to humiliate a captured victim (not necessarily a man btw) besides forcing him to fuck her?

>> No.43275822

>>43275803
Not legally rape in the US IIRC.

>> No.43275829

>>43275777
>Because women are generally the ones getting raped

The rape of male captives was extremely common in Rome.

>> No.43275831

>>43275816
Rape is a "I want to get off" thing, not a "I want to humiliate people" thing. Most people aren't into that so much as they're into fucking. Sadly.

>> No.43275838

>>43275829
By women, or men?

Because you know, Rome.

>> No.43275849

>>43275772
The fucked up part is that the CDC didn't classify it as rape, simply as "other sexual violence".
>>43275803
Welcome to the culture of "men can't be raped".
Rape is something that happens to women. If it happens to a man it's just sexual assault.

>> No.43275850

>>43275816

> Reminds me of a fanfiction where a woman rape a man with a knife.

>> No.43275853

>>43275831
Wrong.

>> No.43275872

>>43275808
You don't really need to. In fact the less detail you go into the better, avoids fetishists.

>> No.43275892

>>43275795
>That is not how people work.

That's exactly how people work.

Any time something happens to a person or people, people who belong to the same groups as those people are more likely to care and become angry about it.

Nation, religion, gender, state, school, community, even if they don't know the people involved they empathize with them more.

>> No.43275893

>>43275838
By roman soldiers. But also the other way around, done to roman soldiers. Women were property back then anyway, so there was no such thing as rape in their case.

>> No.43275900

>>43268808
Plunder? Yeah; that's the spoils.
Pillage/Rape? Not so much.

Taking a place over n' killing everything that moves don't have to be the same thing.

Make your soldiers marry locals to reinforce morale on both sides.

That's how Persia did it, and short of the spartans everyone loved their ass.

>> No.43275904

>>43275831
It can be one or the either, or both.

Soldiers raping villagers would most likely be the "I want to get off" kind.

>> No.43275908

>>43275892
Your core premise that it's more difficult for women to commit rape is pure bullshit, though.

>> No.43275911

>>43275831
In most cases rape is about power and humiliation and not about "i want to get off". Especially in wartime when your victim happens to be your beaten enemy (or his wife/daugther)

>> No.43275916

>>43275849
Well look, when an older relative forced my sister to kiss him it was rape and he was punished. When an older relative forcibly masturbated me it was nothing, since I never even told any one, due to the risk of having it taken against me.

>> No.43275924

>>43268808
We used to be unable to control them once they entered a city or town, but since developing mechanised necromancy, our hungry hordes simply eat the dead and enforce the law with no excessive violence. Plus, dead men don't need gold.

>> No.43275949

>>43268808
>how does their leader keep up morale and pay them enough

A pyramid scheme of wizards casting 'charm person' and other illusion spells

>> No.43276022

If the city surrenders early on the looting and rape would be minimal. Even the mongols put their dicks pack into their leather pants when their foes paid tribute and submitted.

Its usually the case that when a city resists it gets butt blasted if it loses.

>> No.43276121

>>43275908
I admit it is apparently much more common and easier than I thought, but I still think it would be more difficult.

Like a man can just shove a woman against a wall and fuck her, but a woman has to get the man hard and manage to pin him down (probably with the help of others) and fuck him. Unless they just threaten him and he does it partially of his own will which is probably not that hard to pull off when you have a knife at their throat and a squad behind your back.

Men typically being stronger than women could be an issue, though obviously not in a fantasy world and especially not when it is male commoner and female soldier.

If we mention gays it becomes more difficult for women, a gay dude can also just shove someone up against a wall and fuck them, but I imagine a lesbian would have to use threats to force someone to act how they want them to, though again probably not too hard with a weapon and numbers. Or they could just get off on getting the victim off which is... actually a thing that happens fairly often.

>> No.43276135

>>43275949
>'charm person' and other illusion spells
But charm person is enchantments, not illusion.

>> No.43276222

>>43272113
100% right on point anon

>> No.43276382

>>43275853
>>43275911
Surveys showed most people (this was in India IIRC, might have been Phillipines) only raped because that was how they got sex; given consensual sex alternatives, they went for the consensual sex.

Like >>43275904 said.

>>43275911 specifically sounds fairly ritual; some people did that, but those are the kinds of people we'd call "warriors", not soldiers.

>> No.43276484

>>43276382
>(this was in India IIRC, might have been Phillipines)

Then we are talking about societies with extremely prudish views on sex where its literally impossible to fuck a girl outside of a marriage.
Where do you think that stereotype of the horny indian comes from? For indian men the only way to get pussy is to marry, and you can only marry a pretty girl if you have a good job. If not, no sex for that guy.
You can't translate those to rl middle ages and expecially not to some fictional fantasy world.

>> No.43276521

>>43276382
>given consensual sex alternatives, they went for the consensual sex.

And that is what would happen in your fantasy setting. People wouldn't be restricted in their desires, but they would still rape after a battle or a siege, just because they can and not because they are 28-yo virgins.

>> No.43276542

>>43269085
Ahh the "there are no good guys" argument

>> No.43276700

>>43272116
Stop questioning and enjoy, don't let Shame hold you down

>> No.43276751

>>43275123
Now I'm imagining paladins raping their goodness into evil beings and creatures, that succubus is going to be hit so hard she'll cum into a seraphim

>> No.43276786

>>43268947
>not double teaming an innocent young peasant girl with a bro-tier lesbian comrade in arms
Do you even commit wartime atrocities, anon?

>> No.43276817

>>43276751
I'm pretty sure that was actually a thing with templars at one point. Not with demons of course but close enough.

>> No.43276919

>>43276484
You can absolutely if you've got armies who are without contact of large enough numbers of women and more to the point have just been fighting. People get drunk, they get plundering, they're upset because they've been having a fairly shit time campaigning, and they want to have a fuck.

>>43276521
Are you sure you're talking to the right person, anon.

>> No.43276938

>>43276542
..Is that it?

>> No.43277132

>>43268808
Wait so if their is women in the army, do they engage in raping and pillaging too?

>> No.43277198

>>43277132
No, you silly, women warriors are always saints and would never do something so evil. Also they can't rape, only men can rape.

What sort of idiot are you supposed to be?

>> No.43277259

>>43276786

>> No.43277266

>>43277198
That sounds like the kind of thing a tumblrkin would say, I mean just because it's harder to rape a man, doesn't mean it's impossible.

>> No.43277270

>>43277198

>> No.43277298

>>43277270
He's not baiting, he's making fun of the guy who is.

>> No.43277301

>>43268808
>Do the good armies in your setting pillage and plunder and rape when they capture a city? If they don't, how does their leader keep up morale and pay them enough?
Yes, but mostly because looser organization stops the baddies in said good army from doing bad things.

Oddly, the "evil" army does not do much raping because the tyrant that's ruling it is very serious about enforcing rules and getting your balls and both hands cut off because you can't tug one out instead of having your way with a civilian deters that kind of behavior. There are brothels for a reason. You are paid enough to visit them. You are part of the legion to enforce glorious order that will spread across the world, not to take foreign women as fuck-trophies.

Also, humans used to try doing that with elves before either the kingdoms or empire arose. Bands of elves would then find the families of the perpetrators and butcher them. If there were no families, they would butcher the perpetrator themselves and hang them up somewhere very clear and open to say "rape our women and you end up like Mr. No-skin here".

>> No.43277304

>>43277266

>> No.43277315

>>43277301
Holy shit, that's a whole lot of edge for just one setting.

>> No.43277321

>>43268808
Make sure the soldiers wives work alongside them as nurses, occupation-inspectors and general service workers.

>> No.43277370

>>43277321
Landsknechts voran!

Still, I'm fairly certain landsknechts raped despite their families following them.

>> No.43277423

>>43271838
It's time to go back to reddit.

>> No.43277442

>>43268808
Ideally I think they would need a shitton of discipline in order to keep them from doing that. Essentially execute anyone who rapes, pillages and burn.

>> No.43277529

>>43277315
Eh.
It's actually a valid observation.
Tyranny is VERY effective at enforcing the laws it has, because it doesn't give a shit about your "due process" or your "civil rights".
Where an organization where due process IS a thing can have a harder time weeding out bad eggs because you need those pesky things like "proof", then you have to have one of those darn "fair legal trials".

>> No.43277575

>>43268808
No. Morale is kept up by knowing that a city has been liberated and evil has been cast down. Any carnal pleasure is given by the local women thanking their heroes

>> No.43277598

>>43268808
It's Warhammer Fantasy, so you don't want to pillage or rape orcs or chaos.

>> No.43277611

>>43277575
>Liberated
World Police pls go

>> No.43277628

>>43277529
That's only half the edgy.

>> No.43277629

>>43269115
Of course, if you don't care about the citizens of the enemy city, letting the soldiers rape and rob them is great for saving money.

>> No.43277732

>>43277628
The elf thing?
Gonna have to side with Gygax on this one.
"The Anglo-Saxon punishment for rape and/or murder of a woman was as follows: tearing off of the scalp, cutting off of the ears and nose, blinding, chopping off of the feet and hands, and leaving the criminal beside the road for all bypassers to see. I don't know if they cauterized the limb stumps or not before doing that. It was said that a woman and child could walk the length and breadth of England without fear of molestation then"

>> No.43277748

>>43277611
>Evil Dark Lord takes sovereign city for himself and steals from and experiments on the populace frequently and arbitrarily
>Not liberating it and freeing those innocent people from cruelty.

ISHYGDDT

>> No.43277798

>>43277732
Nigga just 'cause something existed IRL doesn't mean its existence in your setting isn't edgy. Sure, lingchi was a real thing, but you go into detail telling me how in your setting people slowly cut bits off of criminals until they die as a common method of execution, I'm going to call your setting edgy.

It's how you present it, not what's in it.

>> No.43277819

>>43277748
>Evil Dark Lord
stopped reading right there

>> No.43277841

>>43275123
>Did armies ever kidnap women from villages just to rape for the rest of the march and then sell them into slavery later or something?
Japan literally did this everytime they invaded Korea. Part of why Korea still hates them.

>> No.43277843

>>43277748
>Satan attains 20% of God's power, which is infinite
>Satan has infinite power
>Satan is now as powerful as God
I'm assuming that's God speaking.

>> No.43277857

>>43277843
I think it's saying god will use 20 percent of his maximum power.

>> No.43277860

>>43277841
The other part being the fact that they refuse to apologise or recognise those acts as having happened.

>> No.43277875

>>43277819
>Good Army
>Attacking anything other than blatantly evil tyrants

What the fuck is the point of this thread then?

>> No.43277882

>>43277798
>in your setting
Not my setting bro.
Just pointing out that it's a thing.
>you go into detail telling me how in your setting people slowly cut bits off of criminals until they die as a common method of execution, I'm going to call your setting edgy
Just because backstory exists doesn't mean the GM is gonna give you all the details at the table. It's probably just that one paragraph somewhere in his notes, so that he has something to pull out if a player decides to go full edgelord and rape an elf.

>> No.43277886

>>43277841
>Believing this actually happened
heh

>> No.43277909

>>43277882
>Not my setting bro.
Oh, I'm so sorry. In *one's* setting, you pedantic fuck.

>> No.43277912

>>43277875
To point out that if the "good guys" don't act like you'd expect a human to, you're not considering the "good guys" human at all.

>> No.43277931

>>43277886
nothin personnel...kid

>> No.43277956

>>43277912
What? I'd expect a group of good people to overthrow an evil tyrant.

>> No.43277971

>>43275850

This is not rape.

>> No.43278058

I am rather amused that people think that being forced to have sex by a woman isn't rape in America

>> No.43278114

>>43270548
Maybe. Potatoes are a peasant's best friend in times of war. Plant the visible crops the Lord requires so they can be stripped by the next army to come through, but have enough potatoes planted in odd corners that you can come out of hiding after the army passes and still eat.

>> No.43278195

>>43275565
>Grab woman
>Rape her
>But you're not a brute
>"Here take this money and clean yourself up you big crybaby."
>It's not even money, just used teabags.

>>43276121
>but a woman has to get the man hard and manage to pin him down (probably with the help of others) and fuck him
Most RPB rape and such tends to be group affairs, like a party. Additionally, getting hard is a physiological reaction. Rub it enough and it gets hard. Threats are also pretty much a given of the "Do it or I/my men kill you/your family"

Lesbians do the same things to girls guys do, except replace "dick in throat" with "face full of muff"

>> No.43278207

>>43275892
he's right you know

>> No.43278212

>>43278114
You know all those soldiers are probably farmers when they're not soldiering right? They'd know to look in the dirt for your root vegetables.

>> No.43278222

>>43268808
Most cases they do, unless very certain circumstances.

>General arranges deal with city's ruler
>Let them, royal family go, and their garrison in exchange for some gold from the treasury.
>Promise no harm will come to them from the other generals around the city
>Once he agrees, promises gold to the army IF and ONLY IF, they agree not to pillage or rape or any of that.
>Also once we take the city, we let in other allied armies, a little at a time to make sure no soldiers are unaccounted for

>> No.43278249

>>43275892
>Any time something happens to a person or people, people who belong to the same groups as those people are more likely to care and become angry about it.
Yes, exactly. That IS how people work. But that's not what was said.

>> No.43278391

>>43268808
I'm guessing that the chick in the pic is the rapist because her clothes are designed to be easily taken off to start stuffing her muff with people's faces.

>> No.43278428

>>43275150
>t only about 10% of incidents are reported
250% OF FEMALES IN THE ARMY HAVE BEEN RAPED.

>> No.43278451

>>43277611
No.

Say that again, and I'll liberate the fuck out of you.

>> No.43278481

>>43268808
Not when they are knee deep in enemy territory.
Then they try to keep the city and its infrastructure as intact as possible. You're going to be using it to repel the enemy when they take it back, so make sure those hastily abandoned defenses weren't sabotaged...

>> No.43278504

>>43278428
Or 2.5% have...

>> No.43278530

>>43278481
>He thinks people are rational
>He thinks war-weary dysentery-ridden half-starved soldiers are rational

>> No.43278541

>>43278530
They'll be more rational when they are tossed over the wall if they disobey.

>> No.43278558

>>43278530
That's why you have officers with them.

>> No.43278561

>>43277370
Of course they did. Why wouldn't they?

>> No.43278589

>>43278561
Could you rape while your grandma is watching?

>> No.43278607

>>43278530
Screw raping the women.
I want them to make me a meal- sit down and watch them cook to make sure there aren't any tricks before eating it all in front of them.
I'm fucking starved, and I'm not taking a woman who can't cook as a wife or whore, because if she can't cook, there's a damn good chance she can't plow.

>> No.43278612

>>43276542
A good guys army is likely to include not so good guys. Unless, like the other anon said, the setting is retarded.

>> No.43278613

>>43278589
What if it's Grandma encouraging it in order to have grandchildren?

>> No.43278619

>>43278530
The trick is to keep them from being half starved by having a steady supply line through the siege.

>> No.43278656

>>43271682
Hi, my name is Saladin.

I am a Muslim, and I was the leader of the Muslim armies back when war was fucking brutal and savage, and rape, pillage, and destruction were the norm.

I was just kinda chillin around, having multiple wives and worshipping my moon god and shit, when all of the sudden all these motherfuckers with plus signs on their chest show up in the most holy places of my religion and start killing my dudes. This wasnt really surprising because this wasn't the first time this happened.

So obviously me and my armies kick the shit out of them cuz they're starving and tired and their leaders are fucking idiots.

Now obviously the first thing I did was kill all of them, including their camp followers and shit or whatever else, right?

Haha no. Turns out, the place they wanted was really important to their religion too. I can respect that man, though killing my people isn't ok. So I sent them back home, and told them I would allow their religious pilgrims to come down whenever to worship their gods in the land I owned.

Except one guy who kept insulting Allah to my face and being a huge prick. The rest though. All the dirt farmers with pikes, up to the nobles and generals that I could have ransomed for fat stacks.

Later they liked me so much they said I was "The greatest leader in the Islamic world." and (This richard dude was pretty cool himself). And one of the Christian Emperors even gave me a really swanky marble sarcophagus.

But no, all Muslims are evil baby eaters, right, اخي?

>> No.43278659

>>43278613
>BBEGrandma sends out hordes of her grandchildren to continue her lineage
This deserves a module.

>> No.43278680

>>43278613
I don't think any grandma wants to raise rape-babies.

>> No.43278697

>>43277321
But what happens when your soldiears have no gf?

>> No.43278717

>>43278607
>Reasonable pillagers
>Break open door to inn.
>Innkeeper is hiding his daughter an wife behind him. Charges with weapon
>Disarm him easily and push him back.
>He's begging soldiers to spare his family
>Soldiers reach for their packs and toss several coins at him, grab a jug of ale, crowd around a table and start drinking.
>One goes to the pantry and gets some food for his unit. Soldiers collapse like someone cut their strings and they start sucking down alcohol like it was water.
>Innkeeper is not sure what to do.

>> No.43278733

>>43278589
Why woul she be watching instead of waiting safely in the campsite? If you're evil enough to bring your poor nan to the bloody sack of the city you don't care anymore about raping in front of her.

>> No.43278774

>>43278680
There are a few
>Don't you dare come back till I get grandchildren!
>I don't care where they're from, I want grandchildren you lazy fuck! Now drop your pants and find a hole to put your dongle in! Just make sure a baby pops out of that hole when yer done!

>> No.43278865

>>43275605
A female army would have a differently complicated time of it, because the local guys wouldn't be unwilling, but the ratio is also different. At least as long as you specifically consider it, standard penetrative sex rape, so the soldiers can get off after battle and assumedly for the most part are hetero.

Ten guys can rape one woman in one sitting, ten women cannot rape one guy in one sitting. Just the physicality of it, your average guy can't perform to be able to fuck ten women in a whole day, but a woman can fuck several tens in a day without much a problem since she doesn't need to perform to do it. So just from a logistics standpoint, a group of ten guys can be satisfied by one captured woman, but the same is not true for ten women and one captured guy.

On the other hand though, you actually need to go and find, capture and hold women for the task. If you're a conquering female army though, you should generally be able to just go into the village/town and approach guys for sex. Speaking generally of course here, but as a male you don't have the same kind of risk as a female, to just randomly fuck strangers, what with pregnancy, possibly injury, and preservation of dignity depending on the time period. A stable girl has a lot more reasons to want to refuse an enemy soldier man who just wants to fuck and move on, than a stable boy has to refuse an enemy soldier woman who wants the same thing. And speaking to the previous point, one guy might not be able to fuck ten women in one sitting, but he could probably get a few off in a few hours. So when the army of women soldiers come into town, it wouldn't be hard to just roll out the local young men, willing to fuck a few soldiers each that day.

If you consider the humiliation side and purpose of rape though, all bets are off. For the most part, a female army probably wouldn't have trouble just raping and humiliating defeated and captured enemy soldiers who usually will be mostly or exclusively male.

>> No.43278894

>>43277886

>> No.43278978

>>43277841
Ancient armies did that constantly and to some degree it was "expected".

What was wrong was the japanese doing it in the 20th century, and the fact that they were kinda the "civilized asian country" for the west made it more shocking for them.

>> No.43279239

>>43268808
In my setting the good guys are some kind of mix of "the Empire" and "the Horde" who used to go around laying sieges with their armies. It was literally a standard issue threat in their military handbooks and is used to force compliance or get people to turn in rebels.
There has been a noted tendency for female officers to order a "code 14" on a populous more than men though because women hate other women.

>> No.43279393

>>43278865
Do you live in Sweden or something? Because if 100 American women came up to me asking for sex, the chances are only 1 of them would be someone I'd want to fuck. The majority of women I know are ugly or overweight or just foul. Being in an army doesn't suddenly make someone smoking.

Hell, imagine if it was an army of British women.

>> No.43279427

Interesting question... And one I'm uncertain how to answer. Currently, my setting's 'good guys' haven't fought a war in generations thanks to superiority in regards to weapons and magic, and have also no real military superpower to match their own. Not!Arabia/Africa comes close to being as economically powerful, but they have no standing army and buy off invaders and defending mercenaries/slaves alike. Said good guys are currently suffering under the reign of a mad king to top all mad kings whilst vampires and other vile undead rise from their nighted tombs, sinister cults conjure demonic entities onto our plain, the curse of lycanthropy spreads, wicked sorcerers weave deadly intrigues, vainglorious nobles plot coups to forward their own agendas, the standing armies are forced against their own people on the Mad King's orders, and the Wyld races of the forests have been growing more and more savage.

Shit's fucked and nobody is thinking about foreign wars.

>> No.43279445

>>43279393
This tbh. Specially considering they're in a pre-modern army, most of them probably look like shit.

>> No.43279519

>>43275427
>thinking knowing basic Latin is at all unique or impressive
Quit being so dumb
>all they did was kidnap them!
First off, kidnapping their women still falls under that whole "rape and pillage" thing and thus goes against your claim that Romans were "too civilized" for raiding parties.

Secondly, I suppose you think the Romans just took their kidnapping victims on picnics until the stork brought them those babies they needed?

Of course not you fucking moron. Both versions of the word apply to what the Romans did to those women.

>> No.43279558

>>43268808
>>43278978
Go google the rape of nanking

>> No.43279711

>>43279393
You can go willing, or you can go raped.

Also while they could be varying degrees of ugly, they're not going to be out of shape, they're professional soldiers in an army.

>> No.43279766

>>43272514
The surah is about trust between muslim and non muslim. The people that allowed to be ambushed and killed are the one who break the treaties, i.e. defectors. Hell, it even tell you that a muslim must honor the non muslim that are honoring the treaties.
Of course they are allowed to be killed, are you gonna hug people who stab your back?
Or, are you even read the surah first?

>> No.43280119

>>43279711
>>43279711
>She might be ugly, she might be carrying as much surplus fat as she can to survive the marches, she might be encrusted in sweat,blood and shit, and she might be carrying the diseases of the last 3 campaigns this year, but hey, at least she has a physique that marches for 8 hours carrying lice ridden kit!

Take a step outside of the teenage fantasy bible, and also out of the idea that people just jump to the feet of any woman to have sex with them.

>> No.43281016

>>43278717
>You are now aware that this is what caused the American Revolution

>> No.43281110

>>43268808
They don't pillage because they are too busy fighting off counter attacks and setting up fortifications.

>> No.43281143

>>43269583
Not to mention that until the victorian era, women had not been that oppressed. They were free to do whatever profession they chose outside of violence, and their husband was the one legally liable for them.

>> No.43281153

>>43268939
Tell me more of your degenerate mage lords.

>> No.43281204

>>43271537
If you really want to piss off an Arab, remind them that Saladin was a Kurd.

>> No.43281225

>>43281143
>Not to mention that until the victorian era, women had not been that oppressed
depends on your definition of oppressed

>> No.43281488

>>43281225
They could own property, they could run enterprise, they had legal rights and were also able to do Hue and Cry

>>
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