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Monk Edition

>All official WotC content here

>Homebrew, tools for 5e, other stuff

>Extra Life SCAG previews
Preface: http://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/SCAG_Preface_3ms9.pdf
Table of Contents: http://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/SCAG_ToC_2k33.pdf
Greenflame Blade cantrip: https://twitter.com/Gregtito/status/650166308290498560
Urban Bounty Hunter background: http://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/SCAG_UrbanBountyHunter_2a5k.pdf
Mastermind Rogue: http://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/SCAG_RoguishArchetype_m39d.pdf

>Rune Magic Prestige Class UA

>New WotC Survey

How do we un-fuck Wot4e /5eg/?

>> No.43033920

Daily reminder that monks don't belong to a standard fantasy setting like D&D

>> No.43033932

Daily reminder to ban badwrongfun from the table.

>> No.43033934

>How do we un-fuck Wot4e /5eg/?
Use one of the five billion homebrew solutions out there.

>pic related

>> No.43033939


I don't think Way of the Four Elements is all that bad. I'm playing one now, and it's not completely crippled like the Beastmaster. I do typical Monk shit, and every so often I get to shoot a Hadoken. Sure, I'm not going to be blasting mooks like full casters, but neither is the EK or the Arcane Trickster.

That being said, it could really use some more options. ESPECIALLY from the Elemental Evil spell list.

>> No.43033944

Monks are OP as fuck, they are the martials that deal more damage, after fighter, barbarian, paladin, ranger and rogues.

>> No.43033963

But anon, if you have to houserule it it's a bad system and you shouldn't be playing it!

Fucking hypocrites, the lot of you.

>> No.43033966

Daily reminder that monks were there from the beginning.

>> No.43033970

I actually really like monks - they can be refluffed easily to fit any primarily weaponless or martial-arts-like character. They feel fun, too. A good mix of utility and damage.

>> No.43033974

I'd like to see a rewrite in light of EE getting released. Especially one that made their ki starvation less absurd.

>> No.43033976

no it works, see a fist can only do best dagger damage, it works fine, small build up damage but in most part very versatile.
Don't you want to be jackie chan, a ninja or the avatar?

>> No.43033988

>Standard fantasy setting
For the 1001th time, no, it never were.

>> No.43033998

Tomorrow is our third session. We just fought some drow and there are two left over who laid down their weapons.

So, I don't want to kill them, but I think that is what is going to happen. I might cut off their thumbs and tie them up instead, but I doubt we'll be able to get them out of the dungeon and even if we did, I don't know what we could do with them.

My party veto'd going public with the evil cult gladiatorial arena beneath the city, because they figured since the Prince is in on it, we'd get framed. I personally could see the DM doing that, but it doesn't make much sense to me, there's no plausibility to that story.

>> No.43034006

Is there a class or feat opportunity attack for shoving or grabbing?

>> No.43034009

Who has ever said this.

I like the idea of the Four Elements monk as a Rune Mage kind of thing, much more than I like the idea of prestige classes coming back.

>> No.43034031

Lock them away somewhere, but sometimes the smarter thing to do is let evil die. Mercy is mostly never appreciated, but who knows, maybe the DM will actually reward you for not killing everything.

>> No.43034032

If you cut their thumbs off and leave them they'll just be killed by the females for failing, and in a more horrific manner than you could ever pull on them.

You can shove or grapple whenever you make an attack, so you can do it with an opportunity attack anyway surely.

>> No.43034044

>You can shove or grapple whenever you make an attack, so you can do it with an opportunity attack anyway surely.
I recommend you to reread the manual

>> No.43034060

Is this a good place to gloat about how awesome our PCs are?

>> No.43034065

It isn't and we shouldn't but my fucking group just had to fuck everything up and switch

>> No.43034089

Oh, well I know one of my players who's going to be disappointed. Which is good because he's constantly starting arguments over what he can and can't do while grappling somebody.

>> No.43034098

You can shove or grapple whenever you make an attack action, not an attack; there is an important difference between the two. 5e does not handle terminology well

>> No.43034107

Not if they're Monks.

>> No.43034132

Ha! He's an Eldritch Knight from Calimshan and a Knight Errant of the archmage of Almraiven. Much better than my last PC, which was a Northlander Champion who did nothing but hit shit with an axe. At least this guy can cast useful spells while still fucking shit up with a sword.

>> No.43034137

>People thinking you get disadvantage to climb if you wear heavy armor

>> No.43034152

Your character sucks and EKs suck

>> No.43034192

>People thinking you should get disadvantage to haul yourself and everything you're carrying up a surface with only your upper body strength while wearing plate armour and carrying weapons

Seems reasonable tbh fam

>> No.43034217


>tbh fam

Can someone explain to me why mimicking ghetto negro speak is now a meme?

>> No.43034225

>Have enought str to lift yoursefl and everything you're carrying up indifinitely with one hand even
>Getting disadvantage
I give disadvantage due bullshit reasons to my players too, so fun when they get mad because I literally ignore the manual and just fuck up with them to have fun

>> No.43034244

>To make the opportunity attack, you use your reaction to make one melee atlack against the provoking...
Yea anyone else know if there's an actual grab/shove OA? If someone gets free of my grab and runs, I want another shot at him or must I wait till my turn comes to go catch him?

>> No.43034248

No, there isn't.

>> No.43034249

you literally can do everything as long as he has another hand free, also half speed.

>> No.43034254

If you get Sentinel your OAs drop the target's speed to 0 on a hit.

>> No.43034295

5e doesn't like grappling. Just give it up and get a greatsword

>> No.43034320

That's not quite what I mean, he's constantly whining that me telling him it takes his full action to throw somebody across a room is "boring" and that it should be a bonus action, that he wants to use a creature the same size as he is as an improvised weapon, then if I do allow that he whines that the damage dice is too low etc.

He wants to do stupid wacky shit, which is fine and fun, but he also wants to be stronger than the dude totting a massive axe or hitting people with his magic fists and I'm glad one of his annoying things ("Oh he escaped my grapple? Well as he runs I do it again!") is gone.

>> No.43034330

So, grapple talk: If you grapple someone and then shove them, what happens? Do you move with them without costing any of your own movement?

>> No.43034352

It moves five feet away from you. Thus ending your grapple.

>> No.43034355

If you shove them out of your reach, the grapple ends.

If you shove them prone, they are both grappled and prone, which means it has disadvantage on attacks, others have advantage to hit it within 5 feet, and it can't get up unless it manages to escape (which eats its action).

>> No.43034361

Appreciate getting a few more perspectives.

I'm psyched for tomorrow, though, not a lot going on until then. I am low on spell slots. Hope we don't have more combat.

>> No.43034393

just kill him he isn't worth copensating also point to him in the rules that improvised weapons and any action that takes effort needs to be an action, bonus are real quick things like a second thought.
Tell him when he reaches level 10 then maybe if he can find a rule that says he can. Grappling is never about damage, its about lockdown, where everyone gets a punching bag.
He isn't wrong about the shield thing, cept about it being an actual shield. Yes I understand that an arrow passing a guy he put in front of him is weird, don't know if you want to give him lee way by saying line of sight.

>> No.43034412

>Hope we don't have more combat.
good mentality imo

>> No.43034431

I would rule throwing a guy is one attack, assuming he passes a STR check. Using the printed rules for improvised weapon damage is pretty shit; 1d4 is garbage, and it doesn't make much sense throwing a mug does the same damage as throwing a person. I'd give him the same damage as the guy wielding the axe, I just wouldn't add proficiency to hit, maybe add disadvantage as well if it's really ridiculous. But if he's got tavern brawler, well he wasted an ASI on it so might as well let him have his fun

>> No.43034473

1d4 is pretty garbage, that's why I normally go with 1d6 on the grounds that it's like using a club, a struggling, uncooperative club that's twisting away from what you're hitting with it.

He hasn't taken Tavern Brawler yet, and apparently doesn't plan to.

>> No.43034610

White assholes from flyover states have always done that. "Fam" in particular only picked up a couple months ago. It's odd, though. In my majority black city no one, white or black, actually uses that particular term.

>> No.43034630 [DELETED] 

It'd be closer to a greatclub. A 100+ pound greatclub. 1d6, even 1d8 seems small.
>a struggling, uncooperative club that's twisting away from what you're hitting with it.
No proficiency then, maybe disadvantage too if you're feeling mean. If he doesn't get Tavern Brawler then he's gotta deal with it.

>> No.43034698

It'd be closer to a greatclub. A 100+ pound greatclub. 1d6, even 1d8 seems small.
>a struggling, uncooperative club that's twisting away from what you're hitting with it.
No proficiency then, maybe disadvantage if you're feeling mean. Toss in a bunch of STR checks too just to hold on to the damn thing. If he doesn't get Tavern Brawler then he's gotta deal with it.
Personally, I believe if a player wants to do some outlandish shit, it should never be impossible, but instead exceedly difficult but with a worthwhile payoff.

>> No.43034735

Ranger Beast Master variant linked. Not playtested yet. I tried to keep the changes simple and minimal. Comments welcome.

This latest version mostly changes the flying beast special attack.

>Beast companion now has:
>Telepathic bond
>Attack on bonus action
>More potential HP
>Ranger's saving throw proficiencies
>Ability score increases
>Banished to astral on death, can be re-summoned
>Standardized stats
>Land beast has pounce and relentless
>Flying beast has flyby and distract

Flying beast is weaker in many circumstances but I wanted the option to be there for those who wanted it.

>> No.43034751

>How do we un-fuck Wot4e /5eg/?

Bonus action collect Ki: reduces the Ki cost of your next action that costs Ki by 1. Doesn't stack with itself.


>> No.43034789

Couldn't you just...lower the ki cost of their abilities by one?

>> No.43034881

That sounds stupid, no.

Make that ability cost 1 ki, like dash, dodge, etc, that way would feel more like monk features.

>> No.43034894

Kinda, but this way it's 1. flavorful 2. can combo with FoB 3. interesting choice between bursting and conserving resources.

>> No.43034908

You don't have the balls or the willpower to make it a daily reminder you pussy.
You'll post it just once and then do it every other week at BEST.

>> No.43034928

>Make that ability cost 1 ki

I can't tell if you are making an elaborate joke or missing the point. So... nice work.

>> No.43034938

>can combo with FoB
How? to use FoB you need to take the action attack.

>> No.43034980

It carries over to the next turn.

>> No.43035096

If I could FoB for free every other turn why wouldn't I just FoB every other turn instead of using my elemental powers?

>> No.43035180

>Mind flayers
>Standard fantasy

Pick one.

Also, Marco Polo and other Italians schlepped across Asia to China in the 1300s and 1400s. You mean to tell me that some Son Wukong looking motherfucker couldn't make a similar journey in reverse? Perhaps some kind of Journey to the West?

>> No.43035199

Wot4e monk should have bonus action decent spells just like Paladins and Rangers.

>> No.43035201

Hey, /5eg/! long-time lurker here. I've recently learned that I'm incredibly uncreative. How? I've killed two unrelated raksashas in two unrelated campaigns the same exact way one day after the other. The move was a multiattack stab and upward pull, and I think it's my signature move now.

Anyway, how do you guys rule on paladin Divine Smites used on creatures with limited magic resistance like raksashas and tiamat? One DM allowed the smite to go through and the other believed that the trait negated it. I would rule with the first DM, being that Divine Smite is a class feature and not actually a spell, but what do you think?

>> No.43035214

every spell they can cast now counts as an "attack", meaning they get their bonus action attack or FoB as well.

Also, a ki-point cost reduction on all Wot4e spells.

Their main two problems are 1. taking too many ki points to do too little and 2. having to choose between spells and attacks.

>> No.43035239

Worst thing is that monk (the punchy and martial artsy ones) monasteries are all over the planes in every plane since a fucking long time, but people still act like martial arts and monks are a new thing. That would be like getting mad at calculators for being eastern, that shit has been with us for generations.

>> No.43035256

>every spell they can cast now counts as an "attack"

>> No.43035265


>I'll take Middle School History for $300

This long-ass highway carted reverse Marco Polo motherfuckers from Asia to the Mediterranean and beyond for seriously fucking centuries and centuries and centuries

>> No.43035280

*buzz* What is route 66?

>> No.43035302

>set my next game in a middle eastern and far eastern part of the game world
>make a few countries to represent Chinese, Japanese, and Korean inspired areas
>suddenly, monks fit in perfectly and the rules don't actually require any adjusting, just some minor changes in flavour

Westaboos sicken me

>> No.43035312

Next time you, weebs, will tell me there were samurai in the Spanish King's court.

>> No.43035324

Marco Polo made the much more reasonable journey to Persia and then learned all about China from locals, who had traveled the eminently shorter distance from their homes in Persia to China.

For proper western there-and-back journeys to China you have to wait till well into the age of sail, which is well beyond the time D&D kinda hovers around in history.

Journey to the West itself is about a monk going to India to get some holy books so he could return to China.

Can't we all just accept that Monks make about as much sense as magic does and that as a goal "realism" is kinda bunk? It's all in good fun. If you want a believable world you don't get it by banning a class, you get it by having the characters in that world act like ordinary people would in a world where magic exists and dudes can channel inner energy via great discipline to punch people's skulls inside out.

>> No.43035370

Question about paladin Dueling - does this add +2 to attack rolls with 1h weapons, or to damage rolls, or both?

>> No.43035379

We could accept that, or we could just try to re-story our monks to more easily fit into the world we already have. I believe therw was a thread a few months ago about making monks work more easily in a European style setting.

>> No.43035382

Damage rolls only.

>> No.43035384

Because your elemental powers do other things than damage. And at other ranges than attack.

>> No.43035385

you add +2 to damage to an attack made with 1h weapons, ONCE per attack, not per die.

>> No.43035432

It says DAMAGE ROLLS, so it applies to DAMAGE ROLLS and not ATTACK ROLLS, which it does not specify.

/5eg/: Learn to Read Edition

>> No.43035439

Why are people talking about real world geography being applied to a fictional setting where the geography is completely different from the real world? Why would anyone give this much shit? It's a fantasy world with magic, monks don't need to be far eastern, far western, far northern or far southern or fucking anything, and even if they were, a wizard could easily have teleported them or their ancestors to bum fuck anywhere. Holy shit, get over yourselves.

>> No.43035464

Whatever. The point is that there's no reason why a not!Europe setting couldn't have D&D-style monks floating around in it.

>> No.43035495

On roll20's 5.0 character sheets, how do i put in passive effects like Fighter +2 Hit with Archery?

>> No.43035501


I was supporting that argument a la the Silk Road

>> No.43035603

>How do we un-fuck Wot4e /5eg/?
Well, I was working on this fix a while ago. Just needed 17th-level disciplines to be complete, but the campaign it was relevant to didn't reach 17th level before concluding, so there wasn't a lot of impetus to finish it off.

>> No.43035604

a few people from east asia ended up in europe during the medieval era, they call it the mongol conquest.

in fact, there is a part of european russia that is buddhist to this day.

>> No.43035692

>For proper western there-and-back journeys to China you have to wait till well into the age of sail, which is well beyond the time D&D kinda hovers around in history.

Except that Marco Polo's father and his uncle, Niccolò and Maffeo respectively, reached Dadu (Beijing) in the mid-1200s (and then made a second trip in the 1280s, which is the one Marco went on). Earlier Giovanni da Pian del Carpine had established an embassy in Karkorum, Mongolia. The Radhanites were medieval Jewish merchants who traveled to T'ang China between 500 and 1000 AD, dominating European trade with China in that time. Before that Roman merchants and sailors reached Siam, Cambodia, Sumatra, and Java.

The Italians also had a small colony in Zaytun (modern Quanzhou) in at least the early 1300s, and John of Montecorvino receive a letter from a Venetian living in China in 1305. In 1951 a tombstone for Catherine de Villioni was found in Yangzhou; the tombstone is dated to June 1342. The existence of the tombstone suggests a thriving Italian merchant community.

The trip was by no means easy, but it was certainly possible.

>> No.43035700

Quite, and your point is? I agree it's not entirely unreasonable to suppose contact between east and west but my ultimate point is there's no need, Monks exist because it's fun and if that requires the perfect and realistic fantasy world (that would be so awesome if it weren't for those stupid players wanting to do things) accommodating them then that's what it should do.

>> No.43035702

note: that picture is actually from the wrong part of russia but it's basically the same thing.

>> No.43035739


Hang on lil' buddy ;_;

>> No.43035757

Way of the Shadow > Punch Gooder > Element Shit

Pass without a Trace is 2good.

>> No.43035791

I dunno, I like Punch Gooder and a lot of what Way of The Shadows does can be done by a Nigger Elf playing as a Sneakybastard.

>> No.43035794

Honestly, I kind of like monks being an "unusual" and "exotic" class. Sure, the player characters can be them, but the same way they can be tieflings, not universally known.

I feel like having a Shaolin style monastery in every cosmopolitan city takes away from some of their charm.

>> No.43035821

Way of the Shadow has a problem, you need dim light or else you're fucked.

>> No.43035824


Being David Carradine from Kung Fu is a lot more awesome than just being one of the monks from the monastery over there.

>> No.43035842

I'm moving towards the Theatre of the Mind style of gameplay for my sessions, but I have a few questions.

How do you handle positioning when it hasn't be previously mentioned?

How do you handle showing your players maps? Do you show them the whole dungeon map or uncovering it as they progress? Or should I make them draw their own map as I describe the one I'm playing from?

>> No.43035853

I think it's cool, but it also has the same issues as most Beastmaster Fixes. There's too much potential for the beast to be far too powerful or completely ignored.

If the DM treats the beast like a combatant (as they should) then your party effectively has a permanent underleveled Rogue/Fighter. While that's strong, it's going to eat shit over the course of a couple rounds and make sure the Ranger lacks a specialization for 7 days.

If the GM treats it like a class feature and opts to ignore it to focus on your party, you have a permanent source of advantage 1/round and an otherwise lackluster combat NPC. It's merits outside of combat still hold true.

In any case, you could just pump Con into it and make the beast your permanent Help bitch and a very durable scout.

I like the rework, but bad calls on the GM's part still make the specialization iffy. DnD/PF has always been bad about permanent pet classes, so don't sweat it.

Same man, I work in Hollywood FL and haven't heard anyone say fam. Maybe it's a West-Coast thing?

>> No.43035861

I wonder if it would be entertaining to be a Judeo-Christian style monk while playing the player class monk? Doing flying kicks while quoting Psalms and talking of one god above all.

>> No.43035896

I handle it by dividing the battlefield into zones defined by their terrain.

There's the Center Road, the Ditch, the Overturned Wagon, the Landmark Rock, etc. and then like "The bandit archer is crouched on top of the wagon, the leader is standing on top of the big rock, and three bandits are blocking the center of the road. There's a dead merchant in the ditch."

>> No.43035919


>> No.43035936

Very nice. Thank you

>> No.43035950

Fights don't last that long in 5e. you'll get maybe three turns until it's all over. You'd be better served by just spending the ki to end it sooner and rest before encountering another fight. Tactics that have you wait multiple turns to see a payoff aren't great in short combat games

>> No.43035960

When combat starts you declare positioning. First ask the players their marching order, then where they are. Then tell them where the enemies are. Do this AFTER the initiative roll because otherwise you always get that one Rogue who tries to bullshit a stealth roll after he's been merrily skipping through the woods singing with the rest of the party.

>> No.43035973


Some people take playing pretend more seriously then others. It's fine to have a particular taste for things but, as you said, in a world of make believe it doesn't have to mirror the real world 100% and in anycase most people cherry pick what they want and say that's how it is anyways.

>> No.43035996

You're welcome! I find it much easier than keeping track of x,y coordinates or whatever. You can also build zones as grids or lines and just say each adjacent zone is 20-40 feet away, requiring one move to transition. It invalidates minor benefits of +5 or +10 foot stuff, but I always thought those were dumb anyway.

For a line-shaped battlefield, say you've got a fight taking place in a narrow city street. Just name them like: Dead End, Butcher Shop Storefront, Woodcarver's Stall, Moneylender's Building, Boarded-Up House, then the Intersection. It takes one move to get from the Dead End to the Butcher Shop, then one move from the Butcher Shop to the Woodcarver's Stall, and so on. Anyone in a particular zone is considered to be within movement range of anyone else in that zone.

>> No.43035999

My group draws maps as we go, though sometimes the DM's description is too shit to get a clear picture. As for combat, I suspect he just freeballs it as his descriptions are vague until we actually question the specifics

>> No.43036026

Well he is a rogue. Disappearing on queue is kinda his thing

>> No.43036039

I use parchment paper to trace the map room by room as they advance through dungeons. It's a bit of a hassle and visibility isn't always great, but I don't think I could sufficiently describe everything with pure theater of the mind and I can't think of anything better.
On some occasions I might hand them a complete map, like if it's an open area where you could see the general layout anyway.

>> No.43036072

Why jump through hoops to achieve something that could be done by just using a map?

>> No.43036087

I am working on reworking monks as a class entirely along with some others "casters" like EK, Paladin, Cleric, Ranger, Druid etc.

What i intend to do is divide them by source of magic and their casting stat.

Internal source:
Wis as a casting stat = fluff is that they have the necessary perception to use magic power from within.
Cha as casting stat = they are naturaly gifted and don't actually percieve their magic power but can use their power to impose their magic on the world
Int as casting stat = long study has revealed internal magic power that can be used with further research

External magic is divided in that "Granted by a patron Deity or higher being" and gathered from the outside world:

Wis is the casting stat for those who gather it from the natural world (Rangers and druids along with some mages)

Int is for those who who again studied external sources of magic such as alchemy etc. (the traditional d&d wizard)

Cha is for those who gained power from a pact where their patron grants them power (so yes Clerics are now mostly a preaching Cha class like they should be)

>> No.43036123

Slows down gameplay and I don't want them to know the complete layout.

I might use sticky notes to uncover the map as a quick solution.

>> No.43036151

Don't draw the complete layout, just what they can see

>> No.43036169

I use a map, and then a din A2 that covers that map and has a spall circle cut that is the visible area. As players move I move the din A2

>> No.43036191

I'm talking more "Okay so what's the marching order? The terrain looks like X" and making it obvious out of game that I'm setting up for a combat. To which his character responds by gaining precognition and breaking off the happy marching song to crawl under a bush.

>> No.43036239

that's pretty clever. but it doesn't work if they decide to split up and might spoil secret doors and corridors they couldn't normally see.

>> No.43036268

>I literally ignore the manual
Sure, you're ignoring the manual--aside from the rules saying that it's up to the DM to decide if something gives advantage or disadvantage if not otherwise specified, and the rules about how it's the DM's job to decide how rules function in context, and the rules saying that the DM specifically has authority over the game as written and as intended.

But, aside from all of that, yeah, ignoring the rules.

>> No.43036271


Bait aside, has there been any class (maybe in a previous sourcebook or in Pathfinder) that deals specifically with Western-inspired monks?

I'm thinking something like a cleric, but with less armour and more of a knowledge/magic focus.

>> No.43036418

Monks, the martial artsy ones, have been in D&D since like day 2, way older than rangers, for example.

>> No.43036437

Tfw I was thinking of making a Ninja prestige class, but every feature I could think of (beyond a few spells) is already a part of either shadow monk or rogue.

>> No.43036450

Yeah, I give my players disadvantage at every roll for being PCs, and the NPCs get advantage at every roll for being NPCs, cool, right? They get mad over reasons, dunno why, it's not like the game was meant for us as a group, it's actually for me to have fun at their expense.

>> No.43036455

Well first of they should be a Charisma class focused on phylosophy, holy scripture and holy arts like healing and any other craft in line with their patron.

So a cleric of a smithing god focuses on healing and forging and a phylosophy of a simple and honest life.

>> No.43036504

Clerics have had builds that sway that direction. At the very least 4e did with their laser clerics
There were also Invokers who ran around shouting the will of their god with words of holy power.

>> No.43036507


Yeah, I'm not against them or anything. They can easily fit into most campaign settings. But think of a setting like the Forgotten Realms, where you have Oriental-inspired areas with samurai and kung-fu monks, but you also have Western-medieval-inspired areas with cloistered monks (e.g. Candlekeep).

I'm just wondering if they've ever played off this archetype. Maybe some kind of divine wizard? No weapons, no armour, just a prayer book and divine spells.

>> No.43036521

Newbie question here, are there any quick and easy ways to get better at finding traps? Rolling for stats meant our rogue doesn't have good int or wis, and no one else in the party is particularly good at investigation. I'm starting to get tired of finding a secret door just meaning there's going to be a trap nobody finds when we roll, which regularly means something blows up part of the treasure in the room before we get to it or triggers an alarm.

>> No.43036540

That's supported by the game. Any DM could choose to do that, just like a player could choose to throw literal shit at every NPC they come across.

It also means you're a bad DM, just like that player's a bad player.

>> No.43036560

Yes, just touch the crotch area, if you sense a bulge it's a trap.

>> No.43036635

Try things that might not even involve ability checks.

"I prod the ground with my ten-foot pole."

"I pour some water from my waterskin over the floor, to see if it runs into any cracks."

That kind of thing. Even if your DM isn't used to thinking this way, it should be obvious what the result is (depending on the trap).

>> No.43036736

All monk spells should be cast as bonus actions in lieu of Flurry of Blows.

>> No.43036785

Give Ninjas basic spellcasting

>> No.43036836

So...don't make it? It the idea is already satisfactory handled elsewhere, why are you even trying to make the prestige class?

>> No.43036923

>Adventuring XP per Day
>6th level should get ~4000
>total session xp: 1800

Either my group is slow or I am a bad DM.

>> No.43036975

Shadow Monk is just a straight-up ninja. That's literally not figuratively exactly what it is.

>> No.43037011

I'm guessing that assumes a particularly "adventurous" day, or there wouldn't be downtime rules.

I'm running Hoard of the Dragon Queen and there's a lot of travel, so sometimes weeks go by without any adventuring at all. Then suddenly, a band of hobgoblins!

Should be a "deadly" encounter, but barely any resources expended, ~300 XP each, and then another week or two of nothing but long rests.

>> No.43037042

Milestone XP son, milestone XP.

>> No.43037043

Y no Out of the Abyss?

>> No.43037082

There shouldn't be sessions where nothing happens. Even if they're not killing goblins, their exploits in bars and whorehouses or just braving rugged terrain should be interesting enough to net them some kind of xp

>> No.43037122

>Want to play a transmutation focused wizard that focuses on buffs and terrain control
>Transmutation subclass does NOTHING for your transmutation spells
>Rather it gives you pointless abilities that have no connection to your spellcasting
This shit is why Transmuters are just not fun in 5e. Hell enchantment spells at least get a buff from being an enchanter (even if most of them still suck ass because charmed is a shitty condition in 5e).

>> No.43037180

They all seem the same to me?

You get gold and time to copy spells halved, you get some situational magical powers that fit your spell school.

You can turn wood into gold at 2nd-level. Sure it's temporary, but that's better than being able to stun a creature right next to you once per day (if they fail a save).

>> No.43037186

Is there a overview of all classes/alternative class features, races/subraces somewhere?

>> No.43037198

It's called the PHB.

>> No.43037200

>Literally a money wizard
>Not useful

>> No.43037216

And it has all official races/classes/subclasses ect. released until now?

>> No.43037284

Official ones?

You pretty much have the Player's Handbook, a few in the Dungeon Master's Guide, and then the Elemental Evil Player's Companion. The Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide is out next month.

There's also Unearthed Arcana if you're comfortable using those, but they're few enough that you can easily read through them.

If you want ones, check the Pastebin in the OP.

>> No.43037303

>If you want ones, check the Pastebin in the OP.

If you want homebrew ones, even.

>> No.43037334

Each other subclass gets at least one effect that improves their spells (at least in part) in some way
Improved Abjuration

Focused conjuration
Durable Summons

Expert Divination

Split Enchant
Alter Memories

Every ability in this subclass

Every ability but Illusionary self

Grim Harvest
Undead Thralls

Literally nothing that effects your spell casting directly. All the features are seemingly randomly tossed in there.

>> No.43037361

>replace 'ki' with 'vis vitalis'
>refluff Wot4e as something about the four humors
>replace orange buddhist monk robes with something a bit more European looking

That's literally all you need to do to make them congruent with a pseudo-European setting without saying they're a foreigner or removing the actual monk bit from the class.

>> No.43037377

Mainly just looking for the official ones yeah.

I just remember the time of 3.5 and 4 where every single source-book and adventure had some squirrelled away in the footnotes or whatnot.

>> No.43037388

If a prestige class gives ki, should it be 1/lvl?

>> No.43037406

It should give none, as it should not exist.

>> No.43037416

It's already too late.

>> No.43037460


>> No.43037488

Many of the dnd monks abilities have biblical parallels.

>> No.43037492


>> No.43037493

The addition of prestige classes is actually the the opposite of change; it's just repeating everything 3.5 did

>> No.43037497

>so fun when they get mad because I literally ignore the manual

Remember that your players could do the same shit, unless you go full nazi-DM-mode on them.

>"Yeah, I totally had absorb elements prepared to take half damage from the fireball"
>"Of course I know Clairvoyance; I totally took that last level"
>"Good thing I had that extra 2000 gold saved up from when I didn't bullshit it onto my sheet"
>"DM's not tracking my remaining spell slots, so I'll only run out when I think it'll be suspicious not to"
>"DM doesn't know my hp total, so I totally survived that crit"
and so on. They can get away with it if they're subtle, clever, and can quit before it gets too suspicious.

You cheating bastard. I hope your players read this and start shitting up your game.

>> No.43037573

It's not about winning, rule 0: it's about telling a story and giving players an experience, for that goal anything is fair game and the book is just a guideline.

>> No.43037577

>>"Yeah, I totally had absorb elements prepared to take half damage from the fireball"
Not him, but I don't really care about that kind of thing. Spell preparation is a relic from when people actually cared about how vancian casting was supposed to work

>> No.43037617

>anything is fair game and the book is just a guideline
But what happens when players adopt this attitude with regards to rule-constructs pertaining to their PCs?

>> No.43037657

Guys, who do we make Barbs more entertaining? I know they're ok, but they are kinda boring with all those passive abilities an almost no active ones, it's like a fucking autopilot.

>> No.43037682

Primal magic

>> No.43037714

>it's just repeating everything 3.5 did
With the way the optional faction rules, backgrounds, archetypes, and proficiencies and the proficiency bonus work in 5e it's already avoided much of the bullshit about 3.5's use of prestige classes, not to mention the explicit narrative requirements (as opposed to 3.5's implicit requirements).

As long as they don't make a bunch of redundant and conceptually wishy-washy prestige classes, it has a chance of being constructive and a worthwhile addition.
Time will tell, but I'm cautiously optimistic.

>> No.43037717


take your pick

>> No.43037720

Scream and be dumb.

>> No.43037722

If they want to decide the rules, they can GM, until then, they will eat what's served and go to bed when told to.

>> No.43037770

I feel an archetype focused on choosing invocation-like abilities at appropriate levels would be pretty cool.
You can basically just crib them from >>43037717, too.

Spitballing: they'll have a minor 'eh' sort of thing normally, with an additional augmentation while raging.

>> No.43037807

>they are kinda boring with all those passive abilities an almost no active ones

Play a war game or a computer game instead of a role-playing game.

>> No.43037811

But a player can also break the rules to further his goals.

It's a little like how a GM can break the rules, be it for furthering of a narrative, fun, "the lulz", or simply bullying his players.

>> No.43037848

>rage powers
lookin' suspiciously like 4e there

>> No.43037853

Just stop.

If players do it, it's cheating because it's to further his goals.
GM do it it's narrative to further the game for all involved.

Nothing more nothing less.

>> No.43037904

There was a priest class in a PF splat book

it was overpowered if I remembered correctly

>> No.43037927

>Resource managing is WoW

>> No.43037934

>GM do it it's narrative to further the game for all involved.

See >>43034225

>> No.43037941


Tier A: Bard, Druid
Tier B: Cleric, Monk, Paladin, Wizard
Tier C+: Barbarian, Rogue, Warlock
Tier C: Fighter, Sorcerer
Tier D: Ranger

>> No.43037963

How do I druid of the land?

I am trying to play a caster for the first time ever in my DnD career.. I like it so far. I turned into a giant lizard and bit a kobold. However, the problem I am having is that I feel like all the good druid spells are fucking concentration. Also, I hate being so squishy. Previously I played sword and board paladin and had so many options for mitigating damage. Now.. a fucking kobold spearmen is threatening.. My ac is 14.. FOURTEEN when it use to be 20 minimum on the paladin.

How do I druid? Did I fuck up by choosing druid of the land? We are level 4 right now. I just don't know which spells to take or what the druids role in a group is. Is it to heal? Blow shit up?? I don't understand what I am supposed to do.

Also, is the "magic stone" cantrip any good? What about the cantrips such as mold earth? I am having trouble figuring out how to use those out of combat. The mold earth spell at least.

>> No.43037967

>Same tier as Clerics and Wizards
Dude, the fuck are you smoking?

>> No.43037970

>fighter below monk and warlock

>> No.43037978

So what?

He is a worthless shit, same as any player that try the same.

>> No.43037979


Useless without backup


Sure, until you hit level 6. Then not till level 18. Even at level 18 a good Power Word Kill instakills you.

I find your Tier A's to be lacking.

>> No.43037986


>> No.43037988

That's bait.

>> No.43037994

Hey, does this feat do anything terrible to the game?

>Prerequisite: Ability to cast spells.
>You have learned to cast spells differently from the norm for your class. Choose one class that grants you the ability to cast spells. Your spellcasting ability for that class changes from whatever it currently is to your choice of Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma. For example, a Warlock might decide to cast spells using Wisdom rather than Charisma; or a Way of the Four Elements monk might change her spellcasting ability from Wisdom to Intelligence.

>> No.43038020

Way of the Four Elements don't have spellcasting ability same as battlemaster doesn't have spellcasting ability.

>> No.43038038


Moon druid is better early on
Land catches up eventually

>> No.43038049

When GMs break the rules for abusive purposes as often as they do, and yet their right to do so is unopposed, how can one argue that players don't have similar rights?

>> No.43038051

You fucked up by picking Druid of the Land, yes. You need to wait until level 5 to make Druid of the Land make any sense at all allowing you to cast Conjure Animals an additional time per short rest.

>> No.43038068


What is a druids role in a group typically? I like the earth spells mostly. My character is a earth genasi but all the earth spells are concentration.. Also, what is the point of the spell "Earthbind"? It basically takes away a creatures flying speed I think but that seems relatively pointless? It doesn't even restrict the creature from moving.

This is why I kind of disliked playing casters, I somehow have to guess which spells to memorize for the day. You could memorize earth bind and not encounter a single flying creature. Earthbind is in the elemental evil book.

>> No.43038070

Land druid are considered to be inferior to moon druids. Wildshape is central to a druid's effectiveness and land druids get the gimped version without substantial compensation.

AC 14 is low, you need better dex/armor.

Everyone sucks at level 4.

Druid spells are intended for support and battlfield control, which is of questionable value with 5e's short combats/weak tactical elements. Just avoid focusing of dealing damage, because you cannot.

>> No.43038074

Hmm, perhaps a wording issue that I should resolve. They do cast spells - says so in the kit description - they just don't do it the same way other spellcasting classes do. The feat was worded with the intent of ONLY changing the spellcasting stat for the Wot4E monk and not the monk's Ki abilities in general.

>> No.43038076


Damn dude, your land druid story is EXACTLY like mine. I was a sword and board pally with 20 AC too, now I'm playing a land druid.

I like Magic Stone. It's essentially a ranged Shillelagh. It's going to be my primary source of damage until I can start conjuring animals.

>> No.43038083


I really wish they worked harder on sub classes.. how would a new player know that their sub class is ass?

>> No.43038084

Lotta acknowledgement of rule 0 here, but remember rule -1: The DM can't force you to play.

I couldn't find a proper wording of that, but I have seen it written before as a corollary to rule 0.

>> No.43038088

You do this every thread.

Post your whole character sheet. Tell us your whole group.

>> No.43038101

Players don't have rule 0 written in the PHB, the DM has it in the DMG.

Don't like it, play a different game OR DON'T PLAY WITH SHITTY GM's.

Fucks sake.

"My arm hurts when I do this"
Then don't fucking do it.

>> No.43038112

my brother played a moon druid

he used spells for control
and then wildshaped into a bear and waded into melee

>> No.43038114

By playing it and finding out they suck. It's a learning process

>> No.43038116

Barkskin helps with the AC issue, tote a shield and you'll have 18 AC. Trouble is it's concentration.

You'll find that you're pretty bad until you get to higher levels and get better spells. And yeah a lot of your list is concentration.

Personally your best bet is to cast something like Entangle or Faerie Fire and then relax, throw some Produce Flame into the mix. Keep Shillelagh handy at all times (just tell your DM you cast it all day every day whenever it runs out) so that anyone who gets close gets a magical beatstick.

Your role in the party is a little weird, Druid was pretty clearly constructed with the main focus being on Moon Druid. Basically you can do a little blasting, but not much, and a little healing, but not much, and once you get to 5th level summon hordes of animals to help you.

Magic Stone is great if you're toting a sling or something, otherwise eh. Mold Earth is mostly for fun, use it to make yourself a seat when you camp out or make it toss a stick in the air to play fetch with a dog etc.

>> No.43038140

It's because it's in a different rulebook, the community sourced "how to be a human and not an autistic caricature"

>> No.43038144

>Barkskin helps with the AC issue, tote a shield and you'll have 18 AC.
Re-read Barkskin.

>> No.43038145

But that's wrong. Rule -1 is that even when they aren't, your players are always intentionally trying to destroy your game and campaign world. Or, worded in a less hostile way, Rule -1 is that the DM is a player too. If he's not having fun then it's just as bad as if the players aren't, and if the players are the source of that it's just as bad as when the players have to deal with That DM.

Rule -2 is that even when you think you are, you are never challenging your players enough. There's around four of them and just one of you. They will always be able to out-think you simply because they have more collective brain power than you, probably. So go on, toss another Rancor into that pit.

Serves the fuckers right for destroying your game and campaign world.

>> No.43038148

>Tier A
Bard, Druid(moon)
>Tier B
Cleric, Sorcerer (Favored Soul), Fighter, Wizard
>Tier C
Barbarian, rogue, monk, paladin, Sorcerer
>Tier D
Warlock, Rogue (mastermind)
>Tier F
Ranger, Monk(Wot4e)

>> No.43038152

>This is why I kind of disliked playing casters, I somehow have to guess which spells to memorize for the day. You could memorize earth bind and not encounter a single flying creature. Earthbind is in the elemental evil book.

Shhhh, I'mma tell you a secret:

Work out how many spells you COULD prepare per day

and then

when the time comes

and you need a particular spell

claim you did.

>> No.43038170

>F Tier
Level 3 flying is not F tier.

>> No.43038174

moon druids are tanks/damasge dealers, land druids are support/battlfield control.

Earthbind is meant to knock down flying opponents. A flying creature with no fly speed can't snipe you from 100 feet in the air, safe from your melee attackers

Spell preparation is a stupid mechanic that should be restricted to fluff.

>> No.43038179

I feel it's worth highlighting here that even if this tier list is correct, the differences between Tier A and Tier F remain not nearly as profound as in 3rd Edition.

>> No.43038189

2nd-level transmutation
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Components: V, 5, M (a handful of oak bark)
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 hour
You touch a willing creature. Until the spell ends, the
target's skin has a rough, bark-like appearance, and the
target's AC can't be less than 16, regardless of what kind
of armor it is wearing.

I'm not seeing the issue. It can't be less than 16 and 18 > 16.

>> No.43038193

Tier A: What you want to play
Tier B: What you don't want to play
Tier F: Beast Master Ranger, Four Elements Monk

>> No.43038197

>Rogue (mastermind)
Wait, what the FUCK? When was this released?

>> No.43038205


I am wearing hide.. druids can't wear metal armor right?

>> No.43038208

Aarakocra mean that level 1 flying is a thing.

>> No.43038220

Regular armor AC: 14
Armor + shield: 16
Barkskin: 16
Barkskin + shield: 16

>> No.43038221

Look ye to OP. It was a preview for Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide.

>> No.43038238

Your shield will not add to the barkskin's 16 AC effect, it will add to whatever your non barkskin AC is. Barkskin is separate from all other AC calculations. It is a shit spell.

>> No.43038242

They cannot. Get better Dex or ask your DM if you can get a suit of wooden armor that acts like a higher-level medium amor.

>> No.43038252


but anon... thats cheating?

>> No.43038253


Nope, no metal armor. Hide's the best we get. Though I'm gonna ask my DM if I can go hunt down a giant turtle or something and wear its shell as armor.

>> No.43038267

Really shouldn't have an A-F. Should just be A-C. With A being a level 17 wizard or Bard or level 5 moon druid, and C being the elemental monk and beastmaster ranger.

>> No.43038278


Why is that limitation even on druids? Why can't they wear metal armor? It doesn't even say why in the book, it just says they can't.

>> No.43038279

I'm not getting it. Maybe my DM runs it differently but if what you're saying is true when why the fuck is that even a spell?

Either way Druid Anon should be carrying a shield regardless.

>> No.43038290

but anon... the GM is cheating too

>> No.43038296


one of the things I like about 5e is that it isn't really that clear and players tend to feel that their characters are pretty effective in their groups. Most players seem to feel that they are pretty powerful at some point during an adventure.

>> No.43038303

Only if you get caught, which will only be if anybody cares, which will be never.

Because the hippy nature dude doesn't want to wear things that aren't natural. Go figure.

>> No.43038305

Nostalgia. If you're a DM you should feel free to remove it. If you're a player you should feel free to explain that it doesn't exist for balance.

>> No.43038310

Something something civilization something something technology something something DAHRK SIEYYYD something something COMPLEET.

>> No.43038317

You can't fucking be serious and think monk, any monk > Fighter, for fucking real, dude. Or even worse, monk=wizard

>> No.43038318

Low tier medium armor is worse than high tier light armor with good dex. you should had at least 16 dex and be wearing studded leather.

Alternatively, you can ask your dm for scale/half plate made from non-metal fantasy materials, like dragon scales or umberhulk carapace.
Refined metal is unnatural blah blah blah. It's a relic from earlier editions. Any questionably senseless mechanic you see is a relic of earlier editions

>> No.43038325


How is metal not natural? Where the fuck do people think iron comes from?

>> No.43038335

I wonder how far back your rulebook goes before it's just Rule X: REEEEEEEEEE

>> No.43038342

Encourage the use of the action options from the DMG that anyone can try but only characters with good Strength and training in Athletics and advantage from Raging is going to be able to perform effectively.

>> No.43038345

Well, it's a bit meh. I'd at least allow the Misdirection to target any creature within 5 feet of you and a melee attacker, cause now it's pretty much just for ranged attacks.

>> No.43038347

As the Anon that made it I agree. Tier F is reserved for ranger and Wot4e monk because the ranger is poorly designed and the Wot4E monk is a subclass that doesn't play well with the core class.

All in all most groups that are low-mid tier optimization will never see the difference.

If your DM allows it. Mounts have to be trained for riding as per the PHB (or possibly the DMG) and that means that you need DM approval to ride your animal companion.

If there were more magic items in the DMG for monks I would consider placing them in tier B on my chart alongside clerics and wizards. The 5e monk is versatile, mobile, and quite hard to kill. Stunning attack and Quivering palm both are extremely powerful abilities that can be done fairly often for a small(ish) investment.

>> No.43038350

>Refined metal is unnatural blah blah blah
Yet they can use some weapons amde of refined metal

>Natural treehugger dude starts with armor made of animals and shield made of trees
>Angry Mclovingwar starts naked
The fuck?

>> No.43038357

>supporting strip mining that will destroy the landscape forever
Hand in your sprig of mistletoe.

>> No.43038369

The extraction and refinement processs creates a lot of pollutants. The ore is natural, but refinement is not, and depending on the process outright destructive.
D&D is not a very deep game.

>> No.43038374

>Quivering palm
Simulacrum >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Quivering Palm

>> No.43038379

Metal is natural. Worked metal requires at least some industry, though: mining, forges, merchants, ironmongers, etc. You can find some stuff on the surface or in crashed meteors, but it's going to be really rare and/or shitty.

Conversely, it's relatively easy to tan a hide or cut down a tree, or even just find a tree that fell on its own.

Mind, this whole theory breaks down when druids can use scimitars; that, I never understood.

>> No.43038386

Yeah, but how is concrete not natural? It all came out of the ground.

Oil is made out of plants, which makes plastic natural no?

Forest fires happen all the time, which means it's perfectly natural for the Druid to burn down this sacred grove right?

It's a flavour thing.

>> No.43038395


Do you know what page those actions are on?

>> No.43038419

Yeah, and leather armor, wooden shields and scimitars don't require some industry? Druids are fucking hypocrites.

>> No.43038422

Page 271.

>> No.43038423

Haven't you seen Mononoke, cunt?

>> No.43038427

Druid of the land player here.. Could I multiclass into warlock and still be decent?

>> No.43038433

Flavor becomes a problem when it fucks up the mechanics.

>> No.43038437

Simulacrum is great but it requires a heavy investment with each casting of it. Simulacrum wish manipulation is 100% abusing the system however and would result in DM punishment if you even tried.

However that monk gets the ability to outright kill shit with very little investment.

>> No.43038439

No, that's actually a bad idea.

>> No.43038440

Daily reminder that holy shit all these people taking the bait.

>> No.43038447

>Druids are fucking hypocrites.
But that's the best part.

>> No.43038459

>Quivering palm
Something something talking about capstones

>> No.43038463

Post your sheet and tell us what your party is.

>> No.43038478

It's inconsistent flavour that's never clarified to have a fluff reason for existing in the first place. Druids can't wear metal, but the book never says why. Worse yet they let you wield metal weapons, so it's even less clear.

It's just a shit mechanic that should've not been dragged over, but it was because this is legacy edition.

>> No.43038491

Damn, nobody got an opinion on this? I know its the monk edition thread, but damn.

>> No.43038497

Where did you even get that idea? Conjure spells are some of, if not the best spells in the game particularly at their level. The only solution to them is your DM making you summon 8 CR 0 seahorses instead of what you really want.

>> No.43038503

Again, I can't speak as to what's up with scimitars. But no, it's entirely possible to make a wooden shield by yourself with just rocks and some tree you found. Similarly it's entirely possible for one dude using nothing but stuff he himself acquired to make some primitive, but functional-enough-for-rules-purposes, leather armor. Sure, there are industrial ways to do it that create a lot of pollutants and stuff; or easier ways to do it with metal saws and the like; but at the end of the day you don't NEED those things, they just make it easier.

Conversely, good luck making a longsword entirely by yourself, including all the tools and materials needed to make the sword.

>> No.43038508

Druid weapon proficiency reflects that each weapon on the list imitates a natural weapon, such as stingers or claws.

>> No.43038526

I don't see the problem.

Real-life religions forbid wearing certain things or eating specific foods, despite advances in technology that make the underlying reasons obsolete.

Just see it as "a druid tradition", and leave it at that, if that's what you want.

>> No.43038551

>Simulacrum is great but it requires a heavy investment with each casting of it.

this is true, but it's worth noting that since simualcrum is indefinite you don't necessarily have to cast it very often. you might create a simulacrum of yourself and have it hanging around for many days as basically a repository of spare spells. very handy.

>> No.43038562

And that'd be well and good if the book ever said that's what it was, and was consistent in it. As it is it's a mechanical restriction no new player will actually understand the reasoning behind.

>> No.43038585


This guy looks as though he'd be the best pal.

>> No.43038587

So you seriously think nobody has had fun playing a monk? Nobody playing a monk ever had a moment where they thought 'wow, I rock'.

>> No.43038588

What actions can a familiar take? I am thinking about taking the find familar spell via a feat on my druid. Could I have a monkey familar and have it throw the magic stones I create using the magic stone cantrip!?!?

What exactly can familars do? Why would you not ever take a bird?

>> No.43038590

So, are rangers still shackled to Faggolas combat styles or can they use a real hunter's weapons now?

>> No.43038591

Divine Smite isn't a spell. The DM doesn't care about the rules.

>> No.43038602

Tiers aren't subjetive shit, anon, just because you're having fun doesn't mean you're tier 2, I had fun playing monks and samurai in 3.5, that doesn't fucking mean they're tier 2.

>> No.43038605

It's limited, and only mentions spells as immune, and for 'other magical effects' that require saving throws.
There is no interaction with Divine Smite.
I mean it's not like this is difficult to interpret RAW.

>> No.43038622

Nice strawman

>> No.43038630

It can be done though. It has been done.

>> No.43038637


What would be the best way to post my sheet? I have it in a excel spread sheet.

Our group is a:

Dragonborn Fighter
Dragonborn paladin
Elf Bard
Genasi Druid

My stats are

STR 14
CON: 17
INT: 9
WIS: 18
CHA: 11

We are level 4 right now. Debating if I should take a feet or increase wisdom to 20.

>> No.43038654

Post a pdf of it

>> No.43038655

Get to the conjure spells, then think about something like a level in Life Cleric for better Goodberry.

>> No.43038657


Simulacrum strikes me as one of those theory crafting problems. Something that comes up in forums, but a DM will shoot down in play.

>> No.43038661

>Cha 11
>Wants to multiclass into Warlock

>> No.43038678

Of course a DM will shoot down as soon it comes up, is OP as fuck if you have half a brain.

>> No.43038685

Well I will agree that's one of the criticisms I have of 5E.

I forgot exactly what I was thinking this about, but something else came up and I thought, "If I was a new DM or player, completely new to this game, playing it for the first time without any prior knowledge, I would have no clue why that's there."

The game seems to assume some kind of prior (or at least popular culture) knowledge of D&D. It doesn't even teach you how to actually play, although the play example is the best one I've seen (remember that /tg/ thread about the skeletons one?).

>> No.43038698


Fuck, for some reason I thought lock was wisdom prereq. WOOPS.

Well there goes that idea...

>> No.43038700

They can, they suck just as badly though.

>> No.43038714

My second session of 5e was yesterday, and I'm not sure anyone really knows what they're doing anymore.

Party is
>Bard/Sorc - Kind of a dickass in character, but chill OOC. I know some things OOC about his guy too, but haven't let it slip that I know.
>Dragon? Sorcerer - OK damage dealer, good RPer from what I've seen, pretty chill guy. No complaints.
>Thief Rogue - New guy #1 to gaming in general, let alone 5e. A slightly out-of-place character in-game, he's taking to it like a fish to water.
>Moon Druid - New guy #2. Literally can't even tell the difference between dice, doesn't understand what HP are or how to mark them down, and holy fucking CHRIST stop interrupting the DM YET AGAIN trying to get him to make you a werebear.
>Barbarian - Gork, son of Mork. Seriously. Can pull his weight in-game, unlike Druid, so not all bad.
>Archfey Warlock/Vengeance Paladin - Me. Went for a Simon Belmont kinda feel, what with the "holy warrior with weird powers and a whip" schtick. Actually pretending to be her dead brother, to avoid hostile takeovers of the local council.

>end of last session DM says no rests despite houseruling short rests to 5-10 minutes, and long to ~1 hour
>get jumped by 2 Azers, 4 Magmins, and 4 Magma Mephits
>I'm below half health going in with no spell slots or Lay on Hands (already used after previous battle)
>when first magmin drops, 10' AoE of fire, catches everyone
>of course, I fail my save, and go super low
>2 mephits use fire cones, and even if I had saved against both, still would've went down
>barbarian manages to kill two more magmins next round
>two auto-fails on my death save, fuck AoE death explosions
>fantastically whiff the third with a 3 on my turn
>everybody falls ass-over-teakettle to figure out a way I can live
>DM: Nah, you just get up next round.
>two other characters drop
>DM: It was an easy encounter, why'd half of you almost die?

>> No.43038719

So they are still shackled with bow and double hand-jobbing?

>> No.43038727

Pump Wis for maximum Shillelagh shenanigans. Then Dex. Also that level in Cleric dude, think about it.

>> No.43038729

>The game seems to assume some kind of prior (or at least popular culture) knowledge of D&D.
Because it is legacy edition. It's not interested in being a sound game in it's own right, but instead interested in appeasing the old fans they lost

>> No.43038742

Like I said its a great spell. That price tag and its inability to regain spell slots does balance it.

It is. In game you will see it used by wizards for great tricks like making a simulacrum and using greater invisibility on themselves to trick people into going after the simulacrum (who will be dropping every spell it has as fast as possible). Or using it so it can take care of your keep/tower/whatever while you are gone.

Hell I have seen a player use one to quicken the production of magic items.

>> No.43038743

No, they get some different options. You can be a sword + board Ranger. It's just that the class as a whole sucks major dick. You're better off being a Fighter with the right background and skills.

>> No.43038747

The description of warlock does make it sound like it's a wis/int caster

>> No.43038754

Is dust devil any good as a spell? it seems like garbage because it doesn't do anything until the enemy ends its turn within 5 feet of it right?

>> No.43038792


Isn't it dangerous to be in melee if you are a caster druid?

>> No.43038801

even taken at face value, it's a spell that basically doubles your power, doubles the number of spells you have (both the number you have prepared and the number of actual spell slots), and doubles the number of actions you can take at a time. it's surprising that it's only 7th level.

>> No.43038803

Post beneficial cursed items

Shield of Arrow Attraction
You gain resistance to ranged weapon attacks, but any ranged weapon attack made against a target within 10 feet of you is instead made against you.

>> No.43038812


Sometimes, the fight comes to you. When it does, you speak softly and carry a magic stick.

>> No.43038825

>DM: Nah, you just get up next round.


>> No.43038833

Run up a wall, jump through the air, and punch a dragon in the kidney hard enough to knock it down to earth while I gently float down because I broke a bunch bricks with my fist a long time ago

Monk logic

>> No.43038858

That's sort of what I did with my group's Eldirtch Knight. He wanted to use CHA instead of INT so I made him use the Sorcerer spell list.

>> No.43038871

Run through fire, swim through acid, charge through its slavering jaws into a Dragon's mouth, hack its tongue out while it tries to bite me and leave almost totally unscathed because I have anger management issues from when my father used to beat me.

Barbarian logic.

>> No.43038875

All we really need are the stats and your circle.

You have two frontliners, and your party has three healers. You don't need to do much healing, and you don't need to be in melee. Avoid Shillelagh, use Thorn Whip if you want to pull enemies into your buddies melee range. Poison Spray if you don't.

Your AC shouldn't be 14. You should pick up a shield to get 16. This is the same AC as Barkskin.

Spells wise, the Paladin and the Figher are going to be putting out great damage, so focus on supporting them (Which the Bard should also be doing) and crowd-control.

Flaming Sphere, Spike Growth, and Moonbeam all allow you to effect the terrain of the battlefield, which, when coupled with Thorn Whip and some beefy melee buds, means you get to decide who fights where.

It is, this guy is spouting bullshit.

His party has a paladin and bard. (And a Fighter, so self-healing.) He doesn't need to good berry.

>> No.43038877

I don't know either, mang.

However, considering there's supposed to be a traitor in the midst of the party (OOC knowledge), this is definitely motivation to turn on them when the time is right. I'm not even supposed to be the traitor either, but fuck if this isn't a damn good opportunity to start down that road and out-evil the actual traitor.

>> No.43038880

>jump through the air
Literally how? monks don't have enough Str, and doubling their jump distance will only give them like 20 ft long jumps, that's fucking nothing.

>> No.43038894

Has anyone ever used the create or destroy water spell to any meaningful effect? I feel like its so useless. Why would I waste time memorizing it?

>> No.43038902

You carry a fighter, a paladin, and spike growth.

>> No.43038908

They are literally powered by magic, called ki.

>> No.43038916

step of the wind

>> No.43038960

Again, doubling your long jumps won't make you jump more than 20ft, that's literally nothing.

>> No.43038961

>Jump off my flying carpet that is hovering at low earth orbit
>Turn invisible and land inside the courtyard of the wizards tower taking no damage
>Run up the side of the tower and and go in through a window on the upper floor
>Ignore the spells as you make the saves with your proficiency in all saves
>Punch the wizard twice. Stunning him with the first and setting off a series of lethal vibrations in his body with the second
>Punch him two more times for good measure
>The force of which throws him out the window you came in through
>He is stunned so he cant react to the fall
>Takes Xd6 falling damage
>If makes the save he takes an additional 10d10 necrotic damage
>If he fails he dies

THAT is monk logic

>> No.43039016



>> No.43039019

>you attacked a simulacrum

>> No.43039032

>It is, this guy is spouting bullshit.

Hey it pays to be prepared, when the DM sneaks a pack of kobolds behind him he'll be happy of the magic stick.

>> No.43039072

But that's more of a problem with simulacrum being too good, not a problem with monks being bad.

>> No.43039095

>DM: Nah, you just get up next round.
A free revive in exchange for a short rest sounds like an okay trade.
>DM: It was an easy encounter, why'd half of you almost die?
You guys aren't level 10 yet, right?

>> No.43039113

EXACTLY! That is why wizards are fun! If you aren't paranoid your ass is dead. The wizard now has one turn to stop the invisible monk with high saves and resistance to everything but force damage. Can he do it?

No that is a totally legit use of Simulacrum. In fact I think that is a far more legitimate use of one than I have seen in these threads for a while.

>> No.43039185

>At 18th level monks gain resistance to all damage but Force that doesn't work on concentration
>Wot4E monk get stoneskin at 17th level and of course it works on concentration

>> No.43039201

Nah man, level 5.

>> No.43039210

Mearls gave up on design at that point exactly.

>> No.43039230

Because Wot4E is so fucking counter intuitive it is one of the the only things in 5e that actually makes a class weaker for taking it.

Eternal mountain defense (actually you get this at level 11) costs more ki points to cast than this Empty Body and Empty body makes you INVISIBLE as well.

>> No.43039256

>actually you get this at level 11
Wrong, you get it at 17th level, read the fucking errata.

Why people don't read shit? come on, guys, step up your game, you're embarrasing yourselves.

>> No.43039258

If "high saves" somehow got you past all the Guards and Wards, Symbols, the wizard's divinations, Mazings, Geas, Wierds and whatever else have you, he simply wishes you were a worm, then steps on you. And if it STILL all fails, he's got Contingencies and Clones.

>> No.43039263

>That is why wizards are fun!
One of the issues that Wizards have always had is that they are the archetypal bad guy. The problem with RPG's that have mages in them is that they try to marry the powers the great wizard bad guy has to have for 'plot' with capabilities in the class.

Trouble follows.

>> No.43039299

Why is the druidcraft cantrip so fucking WHACK compared to presdigitation? Un fucking real...

Who the fuck cares about OPENING SEED PODS?! WOTC PLEASE!!!!!!

>> No.43039306

Other RPGs have the sense enough differentiate a balanced class from and overbearing theatrical archetype. D&D does not.

>> No.43039408

How exactly do you use tool profs? For example, I have an alchemist tool set. How do I use it? or is that like fluff stuff?

>> No.43039413

Ahh I just checked the PHB sorry. I don't really pay that much attention to the waste of paper that is Wot4E monk or any errata for it.

The absolute lowest save will be at a +5 to the roll (assuming an 8 in said stat). The guards wards, and symbols will most likely be dex or wis saves which the monk will be rocking a +11 to or con saves which he will probably have a +8. Also because of evasion he saves for no damage if he would be dealt damage. Those that would do him damage have to get past his resistance to all non-force damage.

Should he be able to know where you are even though you are invisible (not unlikely by any stretch) why would he use wish in that way (which could make him lose his ability to cast wish ever again...or it just causes it to cast polymorph that the monk would probably save against ).

Far more likely would be time stop+force cage+what the fuck ever else to deal with him.

Be more creative than "lel wish" you putz.

Any wizard that does not become paranoid that SOMEONE is going to take him out and setting up contingencies from all sides is doing it wrong.

>> No.43039437

>Who the fuck cares about OPENING SEED PODS?


>> No.43039450

Nobody is forcing you to pick it, moron. Why you guys always create non existant problems?

>> No.43039458

>Ranger F

So you have no idea how a Hunter performs alongside other characters at all?

Because two-weapons ranger gets the most dps in the early game. Alongside solid AC and options.

Of course Ranger nosedives by level 8 or earlier and you want to multiclass by then, but that doesn't mean the class is bad. It means the class is bad at level 20.

>> No.43039462

>Free 24 hour weather prediction
>Minor accelerated miracle growth of a plant
>Minor sensory effect that can be visual, audible, or even felt or smelled
>Fire lighter or outer

While Druid has gimped spellcasting in other ways, I think the problem is actually nonexistent here.

>> No.43039469

Weather prediction can be incredibly useful in practical living. D&D doesn't give two shits about practical living, but still

>> No.43039484

BTW, I can understand why we were having difficulty with the monsters. Going by the book, we had 5 XP Thresholds to deal with at that point (the Rogue was sick, and didn't show).

Determining the party's total XP Threshold, we get 1250/2500/3750/5500, for Easy/Medium/Hard/Deadly.

The monsters' XP comes to 1700, with 2 Azers (450 each), 4 Magmins (100 each) and 4 Magma Mephits (100 each). Falls right between Easy and Medium, right?

Where I think my DM fucked up was by not multiplying by the number of monsters. And sure, there is a mention of not including monsters with drastically lower Challenge Ratings, UNLESS they significantly contribute to the encounter difficulty. Fire-based AoEs with a bunch of other fire-immune monsters falls into that exception.

As such, with 10 monsters the monsters' XP is multiplied by 2.5, bringing it to 4250, not quite Deadly, but definitely over that Hard threshold. Combined with the fact we were a little low on resources, and yeah, completely understand why we got our shit wrecked.

Looking over the system they have set up, I think I might have to say 5e might've fixed the CR system to be not entirely terrible.

>> No.43039497

The point of wishing it is to avoid casting something the monk can save against

>> No.43039519


>> No.43039587

And have a 33% chance to forever lose access to wish? Or he could just cast forcecage and have 1 hour to prepare to kill the monk in a billion other ways.

Im sorry are you unfamiliar with the "Just wait over there and I will get to you when I am ready" spell?

F o r c e c a g e
7th-level evocation
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 100 feet
Components: V, S, M (ruby dust worth 1,500 gp)
Duration: 1 hour
An immobile, invisible, cube-shaped prison composed of magical force springs into existence around an area you choose within range. The prison can be a cage or a solid
box, as you choose. A prison in the shape o f a cage can be up to 20 feet on a side and is made from 1/2-inch diameter bars spaced
1/2 inch apart. A prison in the shape o f a box can be up to 10 feet on a side, creating a solid barrier that prevents any matter from passing through it and blocking any spells cast into
or out from the area. When you cast the spell, any creature that is completely inside the cage's area is trapped. Creatures only partially within the area, or those too large to fit inside the area, are pushed away from the center o f the area until they are completely outside the area. A creature inside the cage can’t leave it by nonmagical means. If the creature tries to use teleportation or interplanar travel to leave the cage, it must first make a Charisma saving throw. On a success, the creature can use that magic to exit the cage. On a failure, the creature can't exit the cage and wastes the use o f the spell or effect. The cage also extends into the Ethereal Plane, blocking ethereal travel.
This spell can’t be dispelled by dispel magic.

>> No.43039614


How does druid have gimped casting? Is it because of all the concentration shit?

>> No.43039631

Spell selection is kinda shit until higher levels. That is why I always suggest people play a moon druid that gets a lot more casty when he is high level.

>> No.43039654

Entangle alone is fucking ridiculous.

>> No.43039664

Yeah he wasn't multiplying encounter size. Make him read the DMG next time, at least the section on creating encounters

>> No.43039666

>And have a 33% chance to forever lose access to wish? Or he could just cast forcecage and have 1 hour to prepare to kill the monk in a billion other ways.
It's a guaranteed win as a last resort
a shadow monk can continuously try to teleport out until he succeeds

>> No.43039684

CR still isn't great, because it doesn't really account for anything other than damage and HP, so there are some weird cases like the Intellect Devourer being CR 2 despite having a fairly accurate one hit kill on frontliners.

It is definitely better than 3.5, though.

>> No.43039699

Just put some lights near the forcecage and the shadow monk is fucked.

>> No.43039715

Sorry Satan, his contrived scenario established he was a Open Hand monk.

>> No.43039721

The shadow monk could just hold up his cloak in front of himself and teleport out of the light

>> No.43039808

Still needs an area of shadow he can see to teleport to.

>> No.43039818

you need dim light or darkness, not shadows, anon.

>> No.43039833

you know your proficiency? double that plus your skill related to the action, so at level 1, a thief with thief tool prof will get 2x2 + stealth skill. alchemist tool set is probably arcane.

>> No.43039845

Shadows aren't darkness?

>> No.43039851

Wish is just lazy though. If you have to resort to wish to win a fight you don't deserve to win it.

>> No.43039862


no they aren't.

>> No.43039897

>Stealth skill

Nah son, says as much under tools that using them just uses the relevant attribute (decided by the DM) and then if you're proficient add your proficiency. It's like being proficient with a weapon.

>> No.43039925

Thanks for giving me your thoughts, guys. I understand why he did it, but I was pretty steamed at the time.

>> No.43039973

oh I guess that makes sense since prof would already be in your skills total.

>> No.43040027

>Russian Budhists

I kinda want to move there.
At least so i get to remove kebab with kung-fu.

>> No.43040062


In terms of power and usability:
1.Open hand - the most powerfull single target ability in the game
2. Shadow - Great in stealth and great for the party but need dim light
3. 4 elements - shitty version of an evoker, really needs an upgrade like focusing on a single or 2 elements lowers their ki-cost at the expense of raising the ki-cost of the other 2 elements.

>> No.43040083

Sadly the most powerful single target ability is pretty much a capstone that you'll never see.

>> No.43040134

>remember that /tg/ thread about the skeletons one?

No please elaborate

>> No.43040189

So they are just lightless anomalies in space that simulate darkness but aren't really because reasons?

>> No.43040213

Don't bother, wizards are like theists, 3 int and thinks spouting circular logic hides the fact.

>> No.43040237


>> No.43040271

Darkness and Dim light are very defined keywords in 5e, you can ignore rules whenever you want, just don't expect all people do the same as you though.

>> No.43040289

Can't find it on sup/tg/, but this might be it:


I feel like there were more.

>> No.43040302


Shadows are dim light. It's explicitly stated in the description of dim light.

>> No.43040338

I'm quite serious, every wizard fanboy I know constantly uses the "well I've prepared a counter for that" no matter the circumstance, it's like 4 year olds and "invincible shields", just a load of "nuh-uh" and "Yuh-huh".

>> No.43040377

Y'know why they use that?

Because as a Wizard, they normally fucking have. Trust me, there's a spell for everything and everything has a spell.

>> No.43040440

Thanks for the link, these are pretty entertaining to read

>> No.43040445

And straight of level 1 they have every single spell learned and memorized and all of them constantly currently active and yet retains all their casting slots too and never sleeps, blinks, eats or drinks breathes without protection from poison and never take a step without detect traps right?

>> No.43040506

We were talking about high level characters earlier. Everyone's shit at level 1.

Show me on the doll where the bad wizard touched you anon.

>> No.43040555

Nowhere, because he didn't come adventure, he stayed at home in his tower all day so we told him to stay at home until his character came out.

>> No.43040579

So my friends and I are pretty new to D&D and I have somehow become the DM for this first adventure. Been using the Princes of Apocalypse as the story but I wanted to make a lot more side treks between fighting the elemental cults that I can hopefully use to guide the players a little.

My question, how feasible is it to fight an enemy team made of PC classes? As in stat a paladin, druid and ranger as a group of 3 enemies my 3 friends must fight. Just wondering what I should keep in mind when making an encounter like this.

>> No.43040621

Same level and same number means your group has a 50% of die.

>> No.43040641

If we need to fix the monks then we need to fix the casting system in the whole game as well.

Spell slots? Really?
Why not reintroduce the good old mana pool?

Something like Casting Stat/2 + modifier for the number on the mana pool.
Have the spell levels instead show the cost of spells.
Spell leve+1.5=mana cost
Also many classes need to change a lot.
How are paladins and clerics for example different from warlocks?
They both draw external powers from pacts, contracts and oaths.

Also magic fluff wise and game design wise is a total clusterfuck with too much imbalance.

The schools of magic that should exist:

Evocation - creating something through magic power and manipulating it (elementalists fall under this).

Transmutation - Transformation and manipulation of existing matter (from alchemy to healing magic to wild-shape to blood mage etc.)

Spatial magic - Summoning , teleportation etc.

Mental magic - Illusions, divination, fate magic etc. should be under this... You can call it perception or soul magic if you will.

That's it. You don't need more than those 4.
Abjuration can fall under all 4 of these, example:
Elementalist creates a veil of water to guard him self against a fireball.
Transmuter changes the composition air infront of him to create a wall.
Spatial mage creates a spatial tear that swalows the fireball or teleports.
Perception mage dodges it or even better makes the enemy caster cast it at him self.

>> No.43040661

meant Spell level*1.5=mana cost of spell

>> No.43040687

It can be a lot of fun. Consider using the Oathbreaker Paladin and having the Druid turn into Undead or Aberrations instead of Beasts. Make them obviously evil. Be sure to play them with foibles as well, things the players can exploit for an advantage.

It's more bookkeeping than a regular monster, so do be prepared depending on their level to manage a lot. But a nega-party is a lot of fun if done right.

>> No.43040711


>> No.43040772

So how big of a trope is the butler/servant cqc expert in fantasy settings? Or is this just exclusive to video games?

>> No.43040809

>exclusive to video games
Literally in every manga and anime too

>> No.43040822

Stick to your Chinese Cartoons.

>> No.43040832

paladin should clearly by tier 1.

>> No.43040900

Is it normal for games to not see a single fight, exp point, or even a roll until the third session in?
I'm new and literally all that's happened in our game so far is dialogue. I just want to reach 2nd level so I can stop feeling like upset toddlers could kill me with a rattle.

>> No.43040991

That's not normal at all.

>> No.43041196

So how should I encourage my players to roleplay accurately to their flaws and ideals and shit besides extra exp? I'm considering giving them little things like finding a health potion or a bottle of alch fire.

>> No.43041217

Inspiration is intended for that.

>> No.43041221


I've used it but it was more of a coincidental thing.

One of the players got IC buttmad from getting his shit jackhammered in 1v1 when the butler thought he was a cat burglar.

Now I realize that I fucked up with the advantage/disadvantage rules in that particular fight, the rogue would've gotten trounced even worse.

>> No.43041327

VtM and some other games give XP for when a character's flaws prove to be a real hindrance. So that's one possible way of doing it, but one would have to set a reward that makes sense at each level.

>> No.43041352

how long are the sessions? cause this game is about roleplaying, interacting, and rolling dies.
if your dm has been talking for 3 hours straight then you're in for a bad time.

>> No.43041360

Let them know that you want them to roleplay before the game starts. If they want to play Diablo and you want to play 5 person improv then there's a problem.

Other than that putting them in a faction that fits their character works for making them stay consistent. If the Wizard needs to adhere to the preservation of knowledge then his college won't provide him with that fancy ring for 30 years of service if he decides to burn down the library full of bandits. The Barbarian can't be seen retreating in public or his tribe will shame him and won't respect his attempt to become tribe chieftain. You get the point.

>> No.43041371

Seconding this. Inspiration is a DM-cookie literally intended to reward fun or interesting roleplay.

>> No.43041391

a scholarly gentleman taking out the trash? sounds about right.

>> No.43041613

Sessions last for many hours and it's not just the dm talking. The other players talk with the npcs. We're using the text chat on Roll20 so speech is probably a lot more in-character than usual.

>> No.43041808

My dual wielding Eldritch Knight fighter decided he would like to begin using a shield, but asked me if I could handwave a Spiked Shield into existance so that he can carry over some bonuses from TWF and still attack.I allowed it with the following stats:

>Spiked Shield
>1d6 piercing damage

Thoughts and opinions?

>> No.43041832

Denying him the ability to cast is enough advantage, giving him more would be unfair for the rest of players.

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