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[ERROR] No.42827604 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Pathfinder General, AKA /pfg/

Planewalking Edition: Do your campaign settings connect to other spheres, and are spheres still a thing?

REMINDER: If you are asking for character build advice, make sure to mention whether or not any third party is available!

>PATHFINDER TIER LISTS: http://pastebin.com/5ekDL471 [Embed]
>PATHFINDER TIER CHART: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OG15EBUB1n4IEHl5GhzpV10hYqPkgtbfj4PIxZFh0E0/edit#gid=0
>Downtime Guide (First Draft): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qO_xb3s3X_w18Pa2z2uf3fvmXYf9CJC8z2hi1TSbl3g/pub
>Path of War - Expanded links: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?444869-Dreamscarred-Press-Path-of-War-Expanded!-(Thread-VII)
>Steelforge Playtest: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?430138-Dreamscarred-Press-Announces-Steelforge-Playtest

Old Thread: >>42815442

>> No.42827647

Party hats, get 'em while they're good lads.

>> No.42827652

>Planewalking Edition
Well, not spheres I guess. I'm doing a norse mythology campaign right now, so the only way to reliably travel between planes is to climb the big fucking tree in the center of the world.

>> No.42827660

Why would you ever use Golarion's cosmology when you can use Planescape instead?

>> No.42827688

Just noticed the rule in the top, so asking again with more information.

Given the allowance of third party, which makes for better times in a highly-social low-combat campaign, investigator or alchemist? Which archetypes, talents and discoveries work best for it (infusion aside, since it's practically the level 2 class feature)?

>> No.42827697

where are the pathfinder games /tg/?

>> No.42827711

Planescape books are out of print.

Also, a dictionary for Cagestruck berks like myself:


Walking might be the safest option sometimes.

>> No.42827724

High social, low combat?

I love the investigator. The only way it would be better is if you took the sleepless detective prc and turned it into a base class.

For investigator, empiricist is considered by many to be flat out better than normal investigator, and I tend to agree. There's so many skills that just stop using their original modifier and now use intelligence.

>> No.42827805

Why the hell is there a party hat?

>> No.42827821

Because Planescape doesn't have based Desna.

>> No.42827853

ITT we come up with an adventure path set in post-apocalyptic Golarion

>> No.42827900

>Planescape books are out of print.

http://www.canonfire.com/cf/index.php (their search sucks, best to google and add 'canonfire' to the search)
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?418709-afroakuma-s-Planar-And-Other-Oddities-Questions-Thread-VI (probably about the third-best source on Planescape fluff on the internet, including the writers of planescape)

Also, you can google the books and people have hosted them online to read in most cases.

>> No.42827917


I haven't taken much of a look into Empiricist until recently, and I gotta say I'm rather entertained with it. The L.20 capstone ability is quite neat.

>> No.42827925

>Do your campaign settings connect to other spheres, and are spheres still a thing?
Yes and yes.

Golarion's outer plane configuration is crap and full of demon wanking, so I just throw them out and say that the berks don't know shit about how the multiverse works.

>> No.42827939

It's not hard to add her, anon.

She's just another Power.

>not making a setting where all the APs failed

>> No.42827941

>razmiran falls
Isn't razmir like really powerful though?

>> No.42827953

What's the advantage of having both the Draconic Bloodrager bloodline and the Sorceror Draconic bloodline? Wouldn't it just be a pile of overlap?

>> No.42827983

Level 19 wizard, so yes. He'd have to get off his ass and seriously minmax his shit to solo a demon invasion, though. Don't get me wrong, he could absolutely DO it, especially since he has the wealth of a nation backing him up, and even if he loses his country he can just fuck off to another plane of existence or whatever.

>> No.42827985

Which gods are still alive?

>> No.42827995

also, say baba yaga comes back while the demons invade irrisen, or tar baphon wakes up in the middle of the demon horde
how fucked are they?

>> No.42828018


Baba Yaga would fuck off to another dimension, she seriously doesn't have any sort of investment in Golarion worth fighting for.

>> No.42828020

Baba Yaga can casually defeat the demons, but wont.
Tar-Baphon would have to try pretty fucking hard, but could likely do it.
Yes but he probably doesn't consider it worth it to try and save Razmiran.

>> No.42828050

I thought baba yaga and tar-baphon are like the same powerlevel? says they're witch/necromancer 20 archmage 10

>> No.42828066

Tar-Baphon does not have an army at the moment and would have to make one.
Baba Yaga has like realities filled with servants and a collection of epic level servants.

>> No.42828074

oh, right
but mano-e-mano they're around the same powerlevel?

>> No.42828085

Demons are fucked. Well and truly fucked. In the ass, bent over a table, while crying.

Razmir is one thing. Baba Yaga exists on a completely different playing field. The mastermind of the Worldwound is Deskari, a CR 29 Demon Lord. Baba Yaga is a CR 30 Archmage-Witch with EVERY ARCANE SPELL EVER and literally has a rule that says "she has or can make whatever item she wants" (and is completely unkillable unless you first find her Death and put that back into her... which she has to ALLOW you to do).

Deskari treats other demon lords as his enemies or rarely "allies" of a sort. Baba Yaga converses with gods, gods do not want to cross her, and if she wanted to be a goddess she could (she just doesn't because fuck those spell-begging assholes who keep asking for free shit). Her statblock makes Deskari her bitch, and if she felt like it she could just unleash her own armies (fey primarily, but she also has plenty of dealings with other demons - who may be enemies to Deskari and would like to see him fall - as well as devils, daemons, the rest of the lower planes, and even higher planes like angels and such).

Rule #1 is that you do not fuck with Dear Grandmother.

Thing with her is that she also gives absolutely no fucks. So why would she care? Unless Deskari made the colossal mistake of fucking with her shit, she won't lift a finger. And Deskari knows better than to try it.

Tar-Baphon is CR 26, Baba Yaga is CR 30. Tar-Baphon also has a very crap build (Arazni or Jatembe would annihilate him). Baba Yaga's is noticeably better even before you add in all her extra toys.

>> No.42828109

Baba Yaga is a level 20 MR 10 witch.
She is more than capable of bodying an invasion like that.

Tar Baphon is a mythic lich with no undead control limit.
Give him a few days and he'd drown the invasion in animate corpses.

Golarion is so full of evil, sleeping horrors that the invasion will eventually wake up a bigger fish.

Woe betide the demon lord who wakes up Xhamen'Dor.
A great old one who's a giant, planet spanning fungus that warps reality.

Suddenly the demons have to deal with a Lovecraftian "Last of us" situation.

Mhar the world thunder is also on Golarion, sleeping beneath Mhar Massif in Varisia, the world's largest mountain.
You wake him up and it's explicitly the end of the world.
He literally kills the entire material plane and essentially turns it into the elemental chaos.

>> No.42828141


>demons get to Gormuz
>Deskari accidentally the Dead Vault

>> No.42828182

So it's a "For Those Who Must Follow" mythic adventure.

>The PCs are heroes in the days before a coming apocalypse at the hands of a dark divine or even extraterrestrial power. Unlike a campaign where the PCs must stop a cataclysm, in this trial they have no hope of averting the impending disaster. Instead, they must draw on mythic power to lay a foundation for future heroes to save the world. Their adventures will lead them to create secret repositories containing knowledge and small slivers of their own mythic power. While doing this they also attempt to form deep alliances with disparate groups the world over, laying the groundwork for the heroes that will one day rise and change the fate of a world that they themselves had not time enough to save.

It doesn't sound like a lot of people will survive the battle.

>> No.42828195

So why does "mythic" mean "take off all of your clothes, even if you're the fighter"?

>> No.42828201

So basically Demons will sooner or later piss off something that will really ruin their day.

>> No.42828224


Keep in mind part of the scenario is the chosen heroes of Iomedae get fucking sick of her shit and get transformed to CE because of it

The gods themselves have to deal with the ramifications of Iomedae's actions violating the laws of noninterference

>> No.42828232

Not always

>> No.42828235

Fighter is TWFing. Those are likely bracers of Armor, that outright beat light armor with any decent DEX modifier at high levels.

>> No.42828240

Well, to put into context.

Mhar is essentially another Rovagug, possibly far stronger.

He's just one of about a dozen different horrors dotted around Golarion.

Deskari is so low down on the food-chain of evil that it's hilarious.

He's weak for a demon lord.

The major risk is not Deskari's horde but the shit they'd wake up in the process of their invasion.

>> No.42828247

เŦ ๏ภє ๏Ŧ ץ๏ย ﻮยץร ς๏ยl๔ ђєlק ๓є ﻮєt ๏ยt ๏Ŧ ﻮคll๏ฬรקเгє, เ ςคภ гєคllץ รђ๏ฬ ץ๏ย ђ๏ฬ ק๏ฬєгŦยl เ ค๓.

>> No.42828263

Did somebody said Iomedae?

>> No.42828274

Sure, friend, one moment

>> No.42828335


I mean, have a look at these (and this isn't all of them):

>Immortal (Su): Baba Yaga has hidden her death to make herself even more difficult to kill. This functions as the base mythic ability (Mythic Adventures 13), but Baba Yaga always returns to life 24 hours later, regardless of how she is killed. In order to permanently kill Baba Yaga, her death must be found and released back into her body, at which point she can be killed with a coup de grace or critical hit made with an artifact.

Doesn't matter how you do it. Throw her into a Sphere of Annihilation? She comes back. Nuke? She comes back. Drop a second Starstone on her? She comes back. And she has to allow you to put her Death back in her.

>Queen of Witches (Ex): As Queen of Witches, Baba Yaga knows all witch spells, as well as all sorcerer/wizard spells. Baba Yaga also has knowledge of many other spells that she has researched. Many of these are arcane versions of divine spells. In addition, Baba Yaga can create artifacts, and has done so to great extent, the greatest of which is the Dancing Hut of Baba Yaga.

She has all the spells and can make whatever she wants including artifacts.

>Hut Familiar (Ex): Baba Yaga built her Dancing Hut using a combination of the witch’s hut hex and the sanctum mythic path ability, and over time expanded the artifact’s powers to its present state. The Dancing Hut of Baba Yaga serves as Baba Yaga’s familiar, and replaces the normal witch’s familiar ability. Baba Yaga’s life is forever intertwined with her Dancing Hut and parts of her essence reside within it. As long as the hut exists, this special connection grants her 300 bonus hit points, DR 10/epic and good, and regeneration 20.

Regeneration 20. Nothing suppresses it. So she cannot die as long as it is functioning, only be knocked out. Meaning you have to kill her Hut. Which can't be done without the components for the right spell. Which only she knows. One component is her left eye.

>> No.42828351

Is there anything more OP?

>> No.42828357

Actual gods. Their statblock for 99.99% of cases are 'you lose'

>> No.42828365

Nothing I can think of, at least out of what has a statblock. But once you step into god-territory and outside statblocks, looking at Baba Yaga, outside her statblock it's mentioned that gods avoid crossing her. So yeah.

>> No.42828366

Gee willickers, yet another instance of a super duper unkillable enemy like the deathlords or tarrasque. How skury.

>> No.42828370

>http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?418709-afroakuma-s-Planar-And-Other-Oddities-Questions-Thread-VI (probably about the third-best source on Planescape fluff on the internet, including the writers of planescape)

Eh, afroakuma has some highly skewed views on the planes and gets SUPER salty when someone calls him out on being wrong (with citations).

>> No.42828382

There is nearly nothing on the witch list that isn't on the wizard list.

The tl;dr is that she's more or less the same as a level 20 wizard lich. Actually, way easier to deal with than a lich, as liches can't be hit by nonlethal damage (afaik).

She's just more flavorful.

>> No.42828384

She's actually immune to ability damage and drain.

As far as I can tell, Paizo very deliberately went out of their way to make her as impossible to kill as they could manage while still giving her a statblock. None of their other CR 30 stuff even comes close (Oliphaunt, Pazuzu, Nocticula, Cthulhu).

>> No.42828397

>She's actually immune to ability damage and drain.

I only posted the comic for the "shovel dirt into her lungs" bit. Like the deathlords and tarrasque, she suffers from the issue that you don't need to actually kill people to disable them for all eternity. The tarrasque thing of ability drain is only necessary due to the specific way their regen works.

>> No.42828406

Sounds like a good start for an adventure path.

Is there a guide for writing them? I've played in a couple as a PC, but I don't know what goes in them as a GM except for campaign traits, the plot hook, and waifus.

>> No.42828409

>There is nearly nothing on the witch list that isn't on the wizard list.
All those cure and revival spells are pretty nice. Also Ill Omen.

Also she's mythic.

>> No.42828423

What's a good familiar archetype? Having trouble figuring which ones will be the most useful/fun.

>> No.42828428

I've seen this argument a couple times. Tarrasques are immune to ability damage. Maybe there's a way to inflict ability drain instead for a similar effect, but an Allip just isn't going to cut it.

>> No.42828432

What's mythic mean?

>> No.42828439

The argument is an old, /old/ meme from 3.5, where allips did ability drain.

>> No.42828447

>Mythic: With abilities seemingly beyond the those of ordinary mortals, a mythic character or mythic monster becomes part of a story that plays out on a greater scale than ordinary people can understand. An attack, spell, or other effect is considered mythic if it originates from a mythic source, such as a character or creature with a mythic tier or rank.

>> No.42828461

Gives her a whole pile of things that make her even more retardedly powerful than a regular level 20 caster would be.


>> No.42828466

like what? anything I should watch out for thats obviosuyl wrong?

>> No.42828474

Sage + Figment = creature of your imagination that represents your subconscious and your innate knowledge that speaks to you in case you've forgotten something

>> No.42828475

I'm a fan of the Figment archetype, at least on paper (I haven't played it before). Killing it does nothing-- you could even fluff it as an antagonistic, dickish force that your character is trying to get rid of. Or just a dream monster that's grown fond of you.

Plus you can tack on summoner evolutions onto it, and change them from day to day, which is neato.

>> No.42828482

So can half-elves take human racial feats?

>> No.42828485

>immune to ability damage

Yes... that would be why you summon a creature that uses ability drain...

...like an allip.

Hence the picture of an allip.


Though PF changed and greatly nerfed the allip, thank God.

>> No.42828501

Even disabling her is difficult with her mythic stuff. Unstoppable, Mythic Saving Throws, and so on. That's before you put in spells, too. The easiest way to disable her would be to knock her out, but she's still, under all those extra abilities, a 20th level spellcaster. So getting her to that point is far easier said than done.

>> No.42828523


Witch spell. Grants Ferocity, so she doesn't fall unconscious. She'll take a slight hit to her spellcasting while she's using it via intelligence damage, but she also has the spells to just restore it that same round with a quickened restoration.

Knocking her out is a no go.

>> No.42828547

Afroakuma has a highly skewed hardon for the Far Realm, really hates vestiges, boils down Outer Planes into one-note themes that aren't even that accurate, etc. etc.

>> No.42828560

Haven't really seen any of that in his threads, honestly. From talking to him, I always got the impression that the Outer Planes are incredibly /complex/ within their themes.

>> No.42828566

Who's the god of money? Abadar?

>> No.42828572

The unarmed Fighter lets me take a "style feat" without meeting the prerequisites.
Could i use this to take Dragon Ferocity, or is only the first part of the chain a "style" feat? I want Dragon Ferocity and Dragon Style but i don't really want Stunning Fist.

>> No.42828575

>Using Planescape cosmology
>Not using your own


>> No.42828588

Every year on 4chan's birthday each thread OP gets a party hat.

>> No.42828605


Arcadia is not quite perfectionist, Pandemonium is more madness and less fear, Baator is a mix of themes and not just coercion (mainly tyranny), etc. etc.

>> No.42828613

You just pulverize her. She's a wizard. She's CR 30 or whatever, but not really that much different from the level 17 wizards you've probably had to have faced -- and don't get me wrong, a level 17 wizard, but her being a hell of a lot more robust doesn't change things much.

Its basically the difference between, say, a 4e NPC wizard and a 4e solo wizard. yeah, the latter's tough, but its not like they have radically different abilities.

>Do not deduct the nonlethal damage number from your current hit points.

Ferocity doesn't do anything to nonlethal damage at all. Nonlethal damage in 3.PF is unbelievably weird, so I don't begrudge people for not being familiar with it, but it doesn't interact with the rules for ferocity.

>> No.42828637

>Tar-Baphon does not have an army at the moment and would have to make one.

Or just call all of the good ones back to him. Disayne, Erum-Hel, Soccaro...

>> No.42828639

The #1 problem with fighting Baba Yaga is that she doesn't give a shit about fighting. If you actually pose a threat to her, she'll probably just teleport away and ignore you for several centuries as she goes on crazy interplanar time adventures.

>> No.42828643

In my games I alternate between custom cosmologies and official ones. I'm a huge Great Wheel nerd because of reading the fluff for years, but most of my games end up being stuff made up on my own or by the group.

In the game I'm currently DMing, the world only has two planes. There's the world (which isn't very explored, because most of the known world is covered in electrically-charged rock that blocks both divinations and teleportation, necessitating expeditions across it to explore it), and there's the ethereal plane/afterlife/place of reincarnation cycle. All the outsiders, elementals, and other normally-extraplanar creatures are either some sort of animistic spirit formed from the belief of people or spontaneously occurring because the world is weird as a result of a cosmic retcon by a pair of warring ancient civilizations that turned the High Fantasy dial /way/ up.

>> No.42828662

As with many (NPC) wizards, yeah.

Anyway we were just discussing a dickwaving contest, and my point is that she's not unstoppable.

But as you say, like in most settings that feature her, she's unlikely to fight.

>> No.42828665

>Golarion is so full of evil, sleeping horrors that the invasion will eventually wake up a bigger fish.

This is the crux of the "What if the PCs fail?" portion of Giantslayer, too. The Storm Tyrant just isn't baller enough to handle what he's after and someone (Tar-Baphon is specifically exampled) will take his toys and make shit worse.

>> No.42828682

So... Short descriptions don't give the full story, more news at 11? It lines up with most of the fluff I've read in older books and newer ones, and these descriptions are a decent synthesis of some of the more important concepts. Fully explaining the planes would take an essay or more each, so I don't really see the issue there.

>> No.42828683

My cosmology has an infinite number of planes in theory, though there may be a finite number nobody has ever explored them all so as far as even the gods know its infinite.

However apparently a character i didn't make up and who has never appeared or been mentioned in the campaign is my "mary sue DMPC" and my players assure me he has explored them all, even if they are infinite.

Honestly one day if they don't quit this shit I'm going to make him show up for reals. They made him up, they can deal with him. Lugh the long fucking handed. I think he's based on some irish bullshit.

>> No.42828686

Those look like just quick n'dirty summaries cause that guy was asking about lots of planes at once. Pretty sure I've seen him go more in detph across lots of threads now

>> No.42828711

Yes, but some of the ideas are just flat-out wrong.

There's nothing in the original 2e Planescape books that suggests that Arcadia's theme is perfection, and Pandemonium is less about fear and more madness overall.

>> No.42828712

>she's not unstoppable
>tfw she is
>Defensive Abilities hard to kill, mythic saving throws, unstoppable

Yeah, in a straight fight, she might be beatable. But that's sort of the thing with wizards. If she decides not to fight right then and there, she can just leave, and the attackers can't really do anything. If she does decide to fight, it'll be at a place and time of her choosing.

>> No.42828714

Have all of the September releases been uploaded yet?

>> No.42828723

And yes, it's mostly just a dickwaving contest. Because wizard.

>> No.42828735

Well of course she's not completely unstoppable, she has a statblock.

>> No.42828751

No, but there's plenty in newer books. Planescape is not just a 2e thing. 3.5's default setting was Planescape with a foreground of a detail-scrubbed Greyhawk.

Arcadia is described as having excessive amounts of order; orchards in perfect lines, nature in complex mathematical patterns, and the like. "Everything on Arcadia works towards the common good and a flawless form of existence."

No idea about Pandaemonium, myself. It sounds like you're the one missing some info here, though, given that you're apparently working off only some of the books.

>> No.42828763


>Half-elves and half-orcs may select racial favored class options, archetypes, traits, and so on, as if they were a full member of both races (a half-elf can select elf and human rules elements, a half-orc can select human and orc rules elements).

>> No.42828775

Ah, thank you. That's pretty damn strong.
I'm just going to assume yes to this >>42828572 and go with crazy Dragon Style using half-elf dragon disciple with feral combat training/martial versatility to get 1.5 str on all natural attacks.

Are there any items or spells i should be mindful of to score extra attacks like hooves, gores, tentacles, extra claw arms etc?

>> No.42828787

Hey /tg/, I'm going to be joining a campaign soon and I've decided to play an Oracle. The problem is, the party is level 8 by now, and I'm having trouble figuring out how a blind girl living in the slums is somehow a level 8 divine spellcaster, and why she hasn't moved out of her little hovel yet. Does anyone have any ideas on how I can justify my introduction to the party?

>> No.42828792

When the Oracle power hit, she was instantly boosted to 8th level because she got a larger dose of it than others might.


>> No.42828801

>3.5's default setting was Planescape

Strictly false. The -1e cosmology- is the default for Planescape and 3.5, but said cosmology does not borrow from Planescape, its the other way around.

>> No.42828839

She runs the shrine or temple in the slums.
Whoever she gets power from told her to wait there for the party.
There are more sick people in the slums to heal.

>> No.42828864


The 3.0 Manual of the Planes details planescape fluff such as Sigil and its portals. The 3.5 Planar Handbook has details for Sigil, PrCs for Sigil factions, and other planescape information. The 3.5 DMG also has some touches of planescape in its planes section. There are various monsters in the monster manuals that only exist within planescape fluff.

So no, not "strictly false." I could see it being argued that the 1e cosmology and everything in it/added to it is the default setting of 3.5, and that planescape merely happens to exist alongside it, but at some point you need to look at it and realize that if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably an interplanar space penguin pimp because we're playing in planescape.

>> No.42828876

guess i will read tehm myself and see how I feel about it

should i start at the first thread?

>> No.42828912

>tfw Timesplitters 4 will never be released

>> No.42829085

What decent dirty trickster classes/archetypes are there? To qualify, a class has to get significant boosts to dirty trick CMBs and/or make normal attacks on top of dirty trick maneuvers

Examples include Bounty Hunter Slayer, Skulking Slayer Rogue, Vexing Dodger Rogue, Barbarians/Bloodragers... Anything else?

>> No.42829109

Helm of the Mammath Lord gives a Gore attack. The Wyvern Cloak grants a sting attack.

>> No.42829112

I'm rolling a Witch Hunter (Inquisitor Archetype) in my next game, and curious as to which of Golarion's gods would tolerate their devout hunting witches like animals. I'm thinking a sort of extreme 'cleanse the world of the witch filth' splinter of a church, any ideas?

>> No.42829115

Quick question if anyone has an answer, I'm playing kind of a weird reach char where I'm basically hitting from 3 squares away at all times. Me and my dm were hitting off munchkin ideas and we came to the idea of attacks of opportunity. To my knowledge in pathfinder there is no feat that causes attacks of opportunity to stop the targets movement but my dm says that there is and that in a previous campaign his stegosaurus animal companion had it but he can't remember the name of the feat. I was curious if anyone here knew what it was?

>> No.42829118

Cad, Fighter Archetype.

>> No.42829122

Kotschitchie (or however he's spelled). Baba Yaga is his archnemesis, after all!

Technically not a god (Demon Lord), but still.

>> No.42829191

Sooo.. I know the DSP dick sucking line goes out the door and around the block and I'm a big fan too but I just looked at Paizo's Mesmerist today and I haven't seen it talked about. It is ridiculously fun looking. Just the thematic spell list and all of the features set you up to be an extremely effective scoundrel. The Shadow Splinter Trick is almost too good for words. Any thoughts on builds regarding the Mesmerist? Right now I'm an LE human Lore Oracle 1, Mesmerist 1 with plans to do Noble Scion on level 5.

>> No.42829204


Thought you were talking about Koschie the Deathless at first.

Anyways, Kotschitchie also desires the downfall of mankind in general, so unless he's going to expand "filth" to include everyone, that may be out.

>> No.42829221

Wasn't kosti a human originally? Why is he the god of giants now? Didn't he hate giants with a passion?

>> No.42829228

Ironic curses, son.

It's also why he hates Baba Yaga.

>> No.42829238

He was a human warlord who wished (read: demanded) for incredible power from Baba Yaga. So she turned him into a hideous demon.

>> No.42829272

Golarion has plenty of drugs, poisons, potions, and medicines, but do any of these act as antidepressants?

>> No.42829279

Could I get a citation on that? I believe it, but I'm curious as to where you're quoting from.

>> No.42829344

I really like Hunters, skills, spontaneous divine spells, animal buddy and fighting ability. I especially like the Sacred one that gives a Domain.

But I guess there is an Inquisitor archetype option that trades Judgment for animal companion.

This makes them look quite simillar to me. Is one superior in a non obvious way?

>> No.42829352


>> No.42829380

Hunter got Martial Proficiency and better stronger companion.

Inquisitor got Bane and Wis to Intiative. They also doesn't have a clause preventing them from taking Animal Domain for double companion power.

>> No.42829480

In your opinion, what has Paizo done right?
Let's ignore the fuckery here

>> No.42829487

Thoughts on Slayer 16/Alchemist 4, using Savage Critical and Deep Toxin?

>> No.42829524

Critical Hit deck
Critical Fumble deck
GM Screen
Initiative Tracker
NPC Codex

That's off the top of my head.

>> No.42829565

>Initiative Tracker

Thanks for the laugh.

>> No.42829578

NPC codex would've been better if they included classes from outside core

>> No.42829592

Hey, /pfg/, has anyone tried to convert the mech system and mechanics from Dragonmech to Pathfinder?

If so, how'd it go?

If not, how would you do it?

>Steam-powered robots from Alkenstar take to battle against dragons
>Ancient magically-powered Thassilonian constructs piloted by the Runelords' favored servants
>hobgoblin mechs powered by slave labor

I'd do it. Fuck yeah, I'd do it.

>> No.42829604

>Gundam-esque battle between the pilots of Gebian and Hexian arcane constructs

>> No.42829608

The official term is the "Pathfinder Combat Pad." I got a lot of use out of it since the PCs are usually outnumbered.

It's better than what was in the back of the Gamemastery Guide.

I forgot to mention the Condition cards, Buff deck, and the Pathfinder maps.

>> No.42829636

>Hellknights piloting mechs activated by the infernal powers of Hell itself

>> No.42829777

Stand Still i think.

>> No.42829801

> Implying PURE SCIENCE won't triumph against those anyway


This is the guy who can chant a physic equation to get the same power up that an Ancient Evil God grants him via mystic mumbojumbo (After he killed the said god)

>> No.42829818

>gif related, casters pilot mecha with special systems to let their spells scale up to mech size

>> No.42829828

Stat me.

But really, what would be the best way to play Kiryu? Class combo, magic items, etc?

>> No.42829870

This guy doesn't live in the remains of a spawn of Rovagug he alone murdered?

>> No.42829904

He was a powerful warlord who thought he deserved immortality. Baba Yaga happened to be in the area, minding her own business and conducting some experiments in her hut.

He marched up to her front door with his army, opened it, was particularly rude, and demanded that she make him immortal or he would punish her.

So she ripped out his soul, stuck it in a torc, and fast-tracked what was left of him through the Abyss. He became a demon lord, hates being a demon lord, hates Baba Yaga for making him a demon lord, desires revenge on her, and is immortal.

He got what he asked for.

>> No.42829916


Good taste, anon.

They also did Adowyn right.

>> No.42829968

Is the paladin's Aura of Courage a dispellable effect? That it ceases to function when the paladin loses consciousness makes me think it might be.

>> No.42829981

Brawler. Uses lots of weird weapons and obscure techniques. Possibly Exemplar so you can take off your shirt and show your tattoo to power up your team.

>> No.42830002

Exemplar is a straight upgrade anyway. You get affected by your own buffs, and you don't give up anything noteworthy. You even keep melee weapon mastery, and unarmed is a melee weapon, so all you are really giving up is 4 levels of unarmed damage progression...

>> No.42830026

So touch spells don't apply strength damage right?
So touch isn't a weapon? I can't take weapon focus touch?

>> No.42830040

>gives up Unarmed Strike


>> No.42830085

so how happy are the daemons that demons basically do their job for them for free?

>> No.42830106


Aura of Courage is a supernatural effect. From the rules on supernatural abilities:

>These can't be disrupted in combat and generally don't provoke attacks of opportunity. They aren't subject to spell resistance, counterspells, or dispel magic, and don't function in antimagic areas.

You can suppress it via antimagic, but it is explicitly not subject to dispel magic or related effects.

>> No.42830114

Demons aren't doing their job.

Daemons want the extinction of all mortal life and the eradication of everything. Demons are just turning souls into more demons.

>> No.42830119

So, if an ability says it "dispels" the immunity to fear, it doesn't work on the paladin. But if it says it "if a creature has immunity to fear, that immunity is temporarily suppressed", it work.

>> No.42830202

Right. Unless you deliver the spell through natural attack or unarmed strike.

No you can't.

>> No.42830217

I think you can take Weapon Focus Touch Attacks

I mean, you can take Weapon Focus: Ray if you wanted.

>> No.42830226

Do you guys think the Banshee is too strong for it's listed CR?


A touch attack at +26 for 14d6 damage and a Wail that's basically a save or die at DC 23 Fortitude.

>> No.42830228

Ray is a special case of ranged touch attack, though. Analogously Weapon Focus: touch attack would be like WeaponFocus: ranged weapons.

>> No.42830261

Eh, I guess it comes down to point of view.

Although this exchange made me look up the specifics of Weapon Focus, and you can apparently choose Grapple.

So that's kinda neat.

>> No.42830323

14d6 is only about 50 damage and as written, the banshee apparently can't full attack with it. The Wail is nasty(as it should be!), but the banshee doesn't really have other special abilities of note. And by the time you're fighting CR 13 enemies, Deathward should be readily available.

Sure, if your party has no defences against the undead, a banshee is a nasty fight. But it's CR 13. It SHOULD be nasty if you're ill-prepared. On the other hand, if the party is equipped with a wand of Death Ward, maybe one or two of them will have to make a saving throw(with a +4 bonus) and then they have a full minute where the Banshee can do jackshit because they're all immune to negative energy damage. If anything, the CR is too HIGH assuming the party has taken proper precautions - or any appropriate precautions at all.

>> No.42830341

Well it's likely the party won't know they're going up against a banshee. They might know they'll be fighting some undead, but likely no specifics. If the Banshee gets the drop on them in some catacombs (which it will, it has sense heartbeat 60 /and/ it's incorporeal), it could very easily TPK the entire party in a single action.

Also, consider that I probably likely won't be throwing the banshee at them by itself. They're higher level than 13, so I was thinking of quite a few lower CR creatures to harass the party and the banshee would be the main opponent.

>> No.42830361

>between the moving gears on the plane of mechanus

>> No.42830379

I'd imagine that the gears themselves actually move pretty darn slowly, and in jolts rather than smoothly. So you can have a bridge extend out or lower down or whatever for like, an hour or so before the next 'tick' happens and the gears shift.

So you have like 'Oh damn, I missed the bridge, the next one won't be fore three hours.'

>> No.42830501

>no way to hit incorporeal
It's a creature with DR/epic, which means it's natural weapons count as epic, and epic weapons count as magical by rote.
There is a lot of "I didn't read the rules on this so I am clever" here.

>> No.42830529

They count as Epic FOR THE PURPOSES OF BYPASSING DAMAGE REDUCTION. They DON'T count as epic for any other purpose, such as the ability to hit incorporeal creatures.

>> No.42830538

A single item makes up for that.

>> No.42830543

Look at the Anti-paladin block, anon.

>> No.42830551

A single item gives you Improved Unarmed Strike, the ability to apply your full Strength modifier to unarmed damage rolls, lets you count your unarmed attacks as both manufactured and natural, /and/ gives you scaling unarmed damage based on level?

Cause all of that is listed under the Brawler's Unarmed Strike. And all of that is replaced by Exemplar.

>> No.42830580

Well you already get your full strength modifier to unarmed damage rolls, incidentally.

>> No.42830587

>A brawler applies her full Strength modifier (not half ) on damage rolls for all her unarmed strikes.
Odd that that text would be there. Is that a mistake?

>> No.42830605

>There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed. A monk may thus apply his full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all his unarmed strikes.
Seems like that's in relation to the Flurry.

Exemplar gets rid of Unarmed Strike, but doesn't get rid of Flurry, so it seems even worse than before.

>> No.42830618


Do you know where it says that you only apply half your strength to unarmed attacks?


Oh. Wait no. I see it now. That text is there for off-hand attacks, on which you only apply half strength to damage. It's just saying that when flurrying/twf-ing/whatever, you keep your full strength on your 'off hand' unarmed attacks.

>> No.42830629

Hold on, though.

Unarmed Strike says this:
>A brawler applies her full Strength modifier (not half ) on damage rolls for all her unarmed strikes.

Brawler's Flurry says this:
>A brawler applies her full Strength modifier to her damage rolls for all attacks made with brawler's flurry, whether the attacks are made with an off-hand weapon or a weapon wielded in both hands.
Is the only reason the text is repeated is in case the Brawler decides to use TWF /instead/ of your Flurry? That seems extremely needless.

>> No.42830641

It could be there for archetypes that trade away Flurry but not unarmed strike.

>> No.42830648

Or the other way around, as is for Exemplar.

But the same wording is there for the Monk as well.

>> No.42830655

>Play Lawful Evil
>Party complains because I'm not going full murderhobo
>Meanwhile the Chaotic Good Barbarian has literally murdered every NPC we've come across
>Try to actually do something villainy evil by grave robbing a fuckton of skeletons from a cemetery

>> No.42830670

Well do we have anything elsewhere saying that you only use half strength for unarmed? So far it just looks like double redundancy.

>> No.42830701

I can't find anything else, which is weird, because you can look up any somewhat vague rule for Pathfinder and find people discussing it.

Like I said above, the wording is used for both the Flurry and Unarmed Strike for both monk and brawler. I know Paizo is Paizo, but that seems bloated.

>> No.42830703

Guess they did a lot wrong

>> No.42830718

"Unarmed Strike Damage: An unarmed strike from a Medium character deals 1d3 points of bludgeoning damage (plus your Strength modifier, as normal)."

It's just double-redundancy.

>> No.42830722

How would you stat me bros?

>> No.42830726

I don't have any frame of reference for who this is, but snap decision?

Symbiotic Knight.

>> No.42830740

You always use half your strength bonus for your off-hand when you use TWF, that's all that particular line applies to.

>> No.42830750

Man, that game is fucking great.

Kasatha Alchemist/Barbarian maximizing Strength and taking MWF

>> No.42830831

You're playing with retards.

Remove yourself for your own sake.

>> No.42830989

> Alchemists
> done right
> "hey, instead of making them scale with academical items and/or be good inventors lets just make them sixth-level casters and pretend their spells are potions"

I like playing alchemists in PF, but that doesn't mean they are well designed to capture their intended concept.

>> No.42831257

How to kill baba yaga with level 7 shaper: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-powers/q/quintessence

>> No.42831316

Alchemists are probably the only class where a Vancian system actually makes sense though.

>> No.42831323

I don't think that does what you think it does. Unless you're implying that a 7th level shaper can somehow manage to immerse Baba Yaga entirely in the quintessence.

>> No.42831345

>you can't brew more potions than arbitrary number we give you because they will lose they power
>you can't brew more than one mutagen
>you can only make so many bombs in a day

>makes sense

>> No.42831351

What? The Vancian system makes sense on every class.

>> No.42831513

Aegis/synth summoner

>> No.42831544

Primal Fury/Broken Blade Initiating Aegis/Barbarian gestalt.

>> No.42831966


Those are some fat pecs for an Elven alchemist.

And since they don't wanna show the nipples I think this means Damiel being FtM confirmed.

>> No.42832072

well, he's a mythic alchemist. he could decide to change his gender as often as he changes clothes (we ivankov now).

>> No.42832092


(mostly) 'armless.

>> No.42832099


Adowyn is so well-rounded and "normal" as a character that she kind of goes under everyone's radar.

She's a cute girl-next-door type redhead with a wolf companion and rustic sensibilities, that's pretty much it.

>> No.42832421

Has anyone read the new Spheres book, Worlds of Power? It says it has new alternate classes and some new rule systems.

Also was there ever an update to the Spheres of Power book? The PDF I have has those two chapters missing at the end.

>> No.42832623

Don't forget the cool Tomb Raider Survivalist backstory.

Overall she is a strong female character while still having good sensibilities, characterization, and not being overbearing and hamfisted.

>> No.42832664

>mfw i was the one to suggest "lawful good because i said so"

>> No.42832839

Has anyone stolen Mystic pdf yet? It's not on 7 or 8 chan and moe search is dead.

>> No.42832898

Much like the hunter in other respects as well, nobody talks a lot about it because while it's a paragon of balance, there's nothing you can specifically point out as awesome or a flaw. It's just there and it's just good.

Weird how that turned out.

>> No.42832922


The least she could get is mentioned in the occasional waifu arguments /pfg/ rubs out from time to time.

>> No.42832966

Personally, my favorite parts of the class are Animal Focus and the fact that Divine Hunter allows you to effectively be a mini Druid without having to be Nuetral. Perfect for Erastileans.

> implying I don't mention her when I get into the occasional waifu discussion

>> No.42832981

quick /pfg/, i need business names! taverns, inns, shops and sundries, anything will do!

>> No.42832986

What is the best race to pick if I'm making the primary antagonists of a setting a non-human race that conquered their world, exterminated the humans of their world, and now make it a sport to hunt humans from other planets by traveling the mystic pathways of the icy void between worlds?

They aren't even interested in conquest, it's more or less a lucrative sport to them now.

>> No.42833008

Ivan's Lightly Used Farming Supplies And Torches

>> No.42833019



>> No.42833026


The Sleeping Giant (inn)

The Harvest Moon (inn and tavern)

The Rosemary and Thyme (tavern)

A Hint of Sage (tavern)

As Good as Gold (bank and loans)

>> No.42833031

Yeah. I also like that it's essentially "badass animal companions: The class" for people who actually like to do a petmaster style of gameplay. My GM let me take an Allosaurus into Mammoth Rider a while back because it was our main damage dealer and I wanted to make it better. Ten levels of Hunter and ten levels of Mammoth Rider make for a really impressive companion that you can buff the shit out of.

>> No.42833068


That is literally the Aen Elle from The Witcher, who are Elves.

Custom-built Elves, I'd argue, since they're a touch beefier than your typical Elf.

>> No.42833092

I'm having trouble understanding why Magician Bards are tier 2, wands of cure light wounds?

>> No.42833093

Fancy we're talking about the Alchemist in this general, because there's something I want to bring up. Why is Master Chymist so shit? It IS shit, right? At least compared to just going straight Alchemist. I mean, I guess it'll give you more damage with a lot of natural attacks and a higher HD (the HD being more than cancelled out in my mind by the 2 fewer skill ranks and loss of favored class bonus) but you get pretty much nothing else as far as I can tell and- now here's the kicker- YOU LOSE THREE LEVELS' WORTH OF ALCHEMY PROGRESSION. If I sound angry, it's only because I think the flavor of this class is cool, it's literally perfect for wanting to do the Jekyll n' Hyde shtick even down to sometimes transforming you against your will. It just seems like you give up an awful lot to not actually get that much in return. I'm still going to use this prestige class for my next character and have fun with it too, but I'll probably be thinking in the back of my mind that it feels lacking somehow.

>> No.42833104

Most Archetypes aren't playtested fam.

>> No.42833204

Perhaps some kind of Fey species instead.

>> No.42833207

That's a PrC, but you're correct anyway.

>> No.42833312

much appreciated!

>> No.42833330

sohei monk is also hilarious for making your mount a scary motherfucker in it's own right.

>> No.42833337


You can have Elves that aren't really Elves, such as Elves and Eladrin.

Are there really any Fae that would be militaristic enough to conquer a planet and go on inter dimensional hunts for fun?

>> No.42833350



Not any specific type of fairy, but a bunch of them.

>> No.42833392

I'm not even really talking about play-testing it, but I guess you're still right. Can't count on Paizo to know what they're doing most of the time. I just feel like it could use to have some unique feature about it besides the alternate form your mutagen gives you- that's really flavorful, but it's not especially useful. Alternatively, they could have made it so you only lose one level of alchemy coming into the class, instead of three total throughout your progression.

>> No.42833434

its the same as the play testing doc, just use that for now

>> No.42833579

How would I play a character like him?
He can assume peoples forms up to 80% power.

>> No.42833689

well first, you're going to have to stop saluting. please. I'm begging you.

>> No.42833753

Wenn es meines Gottes Wille ist.

>> No.42833805

Doesn't look like saluting, looks like he's tipping
*tips commander hat* Mien Fraulein

>> No.42833829

I don't know who or what that is, but it vaguely reminds me of General Guy from Paper Mario.

>> No.42833838

Is that German.
Please. Stop that too. Not in front of me.

>> No.42833863

He's indoors he shouldn't be saluting at all!

>> No.42833872

It's an NPC (literally) in Overlord. The only NPC that was created by the main character (out of many many others his guildies staffed their HQ with), and a harsh reminder that sometimes, what you think is really cool becomes depressingly embarassing as you get older.

Still likes the uniforms though.

>> No.42833905

>what you think is really cool becomes depressingly embarassing as you get older.

Like Harbinger training!
Why are you adventuring halfway across the continent?
Because your parents have a whole album just of you. With your apprenticeship and all.

And if you ever meet again, they'll show it to your friends.

>> No.42834116

>I want to play a kineticist
>nah man, looks too overpowered
>alright then I'll be an arcanist
>oh that's a cool class
>so if you allow the arcanist, why aren't you allowing the kineticist
>because the arcanist doesn't have infinite spells
I *could* try to use this as an opportunity to prove he understands exactly jack and shit about class balance, but I get the feeling he wouldn't even care if I practically soloed his campaign because "I can only cast so many spells a day".

It's my biggest pet peeve as a player when I try to play a T3 or below class in a campaign with T1/T2 casters in it, and yet I'm the one who has to skip over classes out of balance concerns.

>> No.42834136

>But but but, that was the entire story arc! Hell it's half of the campaign! You can't just
>don't worry, I only have 4 more slots of that level, and 3 of the one above that, for today.

Divination makes things cry.

>> No.42834178

See if you can slip Sacred Geometry in, too.

>> No.42834247

Sacred Geometry is singlehandedly the most idiotic thing I've ever read about Pathfinder, and consider that I did a quadruple-take on Burn to make sure it wasn't actually as retarded as it looked like. I was considering proving a point, not literally ruining the entire campaign with a near cosmic level of faggotry.

>> No.42834332

That is kinda proving the point, though. However, it may reaffirm his position on kineticist. Because, if something with limited spells ruins the game this bad, surely something with unlimited spells would be worse!

>> No.42834357

Anon there comes a point where something is too stupid even for the average PF player to think, and I'm pretty sure that's the line.

>> No.42834401

I just read up on Sacred Geometry.

How, why, who the fuck even? This should not exist. This sort of mechanic should not be a part of this sort of tabletop RPG.

Is it just me or does the 'Occult' series of books contain some absolutely horrifying shit?

>> No.42834435

It's not just you. The Occult books are like condensed versions of all the shit Paizo does.

>> No.42834488

>because the arcanist doesn't have infinite spells

>> No.42834528

I wonder, are there any genuinely good things in any of the Occult books? Not just "meh, okay compared to the other crap" but genuinely good. Any of the Occult books. What do you guys think, have any suggestions?

>> No.42834588

The Kineticist was the closest thing they had to a good thing and they fucking ruined it. Tons of people told them during the playtest that Burn was a horrid abortion, and in response they made burn even worse.

The class is absolutely a miserable fucking wreck, and I'm not sure who deserves the blame for it. I feel like Seifer didn't want the class to end up as it did, and he's just trying to defend it to save face.

>> No.42834589

Promethean Disciple, the alchemist discovery.

that's all I got.

>> No.42834594

So...not directly related to PF, and please feel free to tell me to fuck off and die, but if the artist who did the pictures for the Bag of Kittens And You article (http://dreamscarred.com/the-bag-of-kittens-and-you/) were doing a webcomic, would folks want to know?

>> No.42834641

I like Occultist, but when compared to, say, Alchemist or Skald, I dunno if I'd call it GENUINELY good.

>> No.42834697


Nope, they need to learn to draw faces.

>> No.42834700

So, newest and greatest update on James Jacobs being a fucking retard.

Anyone else noticed how Senshen is being put on the cover of Vol 100.
As in, the Megavolume that's going to have ULTIMATE SEKRETS OF THE GOD OF HUMANITIES in it, as well as the turn of the rebellion.
He really can't resist the urge to masturbate himself catatonic over his old PC can he?

>> No.42834902

Your MOTHER needs to...

Eh, nah, it's a fair point.

How's your afternoon going, /pfg/?

>> No.42835034

On one hand, someone just drank my milk so no milk and cereal for me tonight. On the other, my Warder/Aegis reminded a witch why polymorphing him into a sheep is not enough (Circle of Razor Feathers+Walk in the Dark fear-lock).

>> No.42835135

Your parents? Bro, your /master/.

"And then I told him the eyeliner would help him get in touch with his inner darkness."

"And he fucking believed it?"


>> No.42835253

bretty gudd, I'm working on a new campaign for my players, but we're going to replace That Guy because he dragged the last attempt I made at running a game into the bleak void of nothingness.

It's gonna have hags!

>> No.42835308

NOW we're talkin!

>Wait wait wait. So the whole 'bearer of bad news' stuff?
>Well we needed a more ... anything name than "US Postal Style"
>Holy shit... And that's when he started writing poetry?
>I could barely keep a straight face for six months straight

>> No.42835393

Doing some shit while I wait to see if an application for a roll20 group gets accepted. If it doesn't, I'll just have to be active about finding a group instead of hoping one pops up.

I also realized that my Dex/Int magus is going to be almost fucking worthless until level 3, because between bladebound and kensai I am nothing more then a dazebot with a shank and a single use of color spray/shocking touch... Which honestly fits the idea of an incompetent wandering elf that's almost dead weight until he awakens his talking sword.

>> No.42835398

Now that I think about it... A Fantasy World Postal Service game would be fucking badass.

"Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night nor random encounter or BBEG machination stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed rounds."

>> No.42835411

I'd play in it.

>> No.42835461

What about Mrs. Cake?

>> No.42835475

That sounds like the perfect setup for an all bard party.

>> No.42835514

Is there any setup that isn't perfect for an all bard party? I'm assuming Skalds get to get in on the fun too.

>> No.42835526

There's a new book out? Where?

>> No.42835579

>Planescape beyond 2e's books.
Yay, not the only one like some new stuff!

Yes alot of "expanded universe" exists beyond 2e. 3.5e had a lot of reintroduction, but mostly just new creatures to fill up your bestiary. 4e expanded a damn decent amount behind their Pay-wall Magazines. Detailing more events on the mercykillers&co, Xaositecs, and Doomguard. Plus a ton of new interesting places.

You may love or hate the Astral Plane being a literal sky-sea (I'm not a fan). But it's worth a read through to spruce up the colourless sea. I like the board island ideas. Waiting to see what 5th adds.

>Pathfinder thread
Keeping in tone with Pathfinder I often hint to my players that PF's Outter spheres were once the great wheel before some vague unexplained event.

>> No.42835586

Didn't they also do your previous avatar on GitP? The pink-haired person?

>> No.42835663

You can still Spellstrike Arcane Mark all day long for double attacks though, can'tcha?

>> No.42835664

Yep. Endeca, of Gregarious Gravity Slime fame.

>> No.42835676

THAT was Endeca? The little pink-haired chick with the crazy-ass outfit, that's the one who created it?
How long have you been sitting on that picture, waiting to reveal her identity? Was the Gravity Slime even a THING when you got that avatar?

>> No.42835724

What the fuck is a Changeling and why does one of the devs have a boner for them?

Also what's this stuff about Kobolds?

>> No.42835738


I really dislike the 4e changes to the Great Wheel, but think it (being Points of Light) is very neat as a stand-alone setting. The Astral Sea is neat, but 4e had some needless changes to a lot of settings' fluff that /weren't/ FR/affected by the spellplague.

Dark Sun got brutalized, Eberron lost a lot of its core fluff concepts, Greyhawk got further scrubbed from existence... It's a shame. Mostly I can't forgive them for what they did to Eberron and the Wheel's structure, since the fluff for the latter isn't at all similar, while the fluff for the former is like an uncanny valley version of Eberron.

>> No.42835755

>What the fuck is a Changeling
They're basically tieflings.

>and why does one of the devs have a boner for them?
Because they spent to much time on /d/ and their futa succubus threads.

>> No.42835768


Changelings are the all-female offspring of Hags and humanoid men, often humans, and are noted for their otherworldly beauty as much as their otherworldly strangeness.

Crystal Frasier wanted to make Changelings, already a rare race, to have a significant percentage of them be Intersex (that is, having both male and female genitalia) because... Frankly, she didn't give a reason, she just demanded it be done because it would stroke her ego.

Wesley Schneider ignored Crystal's demand, keeping Changelings unmolested, and instead made Kobolds the race with a notable percentage of intersex members. This is seen as not only acceptable, but kind of cool by many, as Kobolds were never big on the sex organs (being lizards) and the intersex members of their race also express various draconic qualities, which makes them revered.

>> No.42835776

Odd question, but I'm a bit stuck.

Playing Curse of the Crimson Throne, book 1. My players are currently post-riot and running errands for Devargo in order to infiltrate his organization and learn that it's the Arkona family that is backing him and helping him spread his drug trade across the city.

This session they're going to be pulling a cart full of barrels of Shiver across the bridge from Old Korvosa, and have been told to figure out a way to get it across undetected.

I need to come up with a Korvosa-themed event to basically turn the entire scene on it's head. I can't come up with something good.

>> No.42835786

>What the fuck is a Changeling
All-female race born of hags raping men, otherworldly beautiful girls that eventually hear their mother's call to wander out into the woods where the hag catches them and turns them into an ugly hag

>why does one of the devs have a boner for them?

SJW stuff, wanting to make them intersex because... because. Never mind that she could have said there were a lot of transsexual changelings and that would have made a decent amount of sense.

>Also what's this stuff about Kobolds?
An anonymous editor removed the bit about changelings frequently being intersex from Inner Sea Races, but he had to keep it in the book somewhere. He stuck it on kobolds, justifying it as kobolds being genetic freaks anyway that are already commonly born with mutations.

>> No.42835789



>> No.42835820

>kobolds being genetic freaks


>> No.42835866

This just makes me want a picture of a kobold wearing a chainmail headdress like Scott Steiner.

>> No.42835881

Technically yes, but spellstrike is level 2. So for the first level he'll be a dazebot, second level he can shank a guy twice, third level he can actually use his scimitar and now miss every swing. Honestly a fair trade for what I could potentially be doing in the mid-late levels.

>> No.42835894

Based Schneider. I bet this was a huge slap in Crystal's face, too.

>> No.42835902


Who even cares about the sex organs of a kobold, anyway? Absolutely everyone running into a kobold outside of an ERP campaign running the ISR rules will just notice a couple kobolds in the warren with dragon-wings or maybe a breath attack.

It's not like Changelings where you'll run into one and the PC wooing her notices a very feminine penis.

Based editor threw the intersex distinction onto a race where sexual identity doesn't fucking matter at all, and I can't see Crystal demanding a change without showing off (at least, more than already) just how crazy she is.

>> No.42835903

If you hung out with the people I do and delved the paizo boards as masochisticly as I have, you'd know there's no bottom to the idiocy rabbit hole.

>> No.42835929

P. good

Just kicking it with my ladylove and picking out maneuvers for my Gunsmoke Mystic.

What do you think is the better call at level 3 Discipline Focus for the +2 damage and DC to make my Flux rider effects even nastier, or Advanced Study so I can pick up three level 2 maneuvers (or a level 2 stance) right off?

>> No.42835958


...Weird, I had a character of the exact same name, who was also a pink haired girl

Well, more light red.

Are you me Gareth

I feel like you might be me

You know Dorian and you love Rubato

>> No.42835970


Look, every RPG author has that one character they fell in love with ages ago. Endeca's mine. She was my first 3.0 character, ages ago, back during my horrible edgelord days. She's been reincarnated a few times since then (including once as the villain of an epic level campaign). There's still some of my fic of her floating on Giantitp, if you care to hurt yourself reading it.

The Gravity Slime got written as part of my early employment, when Bossman: Piracy Edition wanted to see my chops. We'd been discussing some of the common problems facing martials, and flight came up. The slime started as its originating spell (which is in turn inspired by /earthbind/, from late in 3.5's run and featured as an ability of the Gadacro in MMV). When I wanted to make it into an item I was feeling a bit whimsical and still trying to excise my urge to do ALL THE WEIRD SHIT EVER (this was during Shattered Mirror's development), so the item went from being a grenade or special arrow to being a regenerating slime that you dip your weapons in.

Who else was I going to credit for something like that, other than my pocket cheerful-as-hell crazy wizard? You'll also note that she's risen from the ashes into my current fic, Pathfinderized and still exuberant, but definitely flirting more firmly on this side of sanity.

Pic related; it was drawn of her during aforementioned horrible edgelord days. Certain details are different in the modern incarnation, but to be frank it's still mostly accurate. She's a wizard, she doesn't have to explain shit. And yes, that's an intellect devourer.

>> No.42835979

The only thing we really gripe about now is that they say the intersex kobolds are celebrated when born, right after they detailed that kobolds barely fucking care about sex and sexual bits, because intersex kobolds frequently displace draconic traits. It would have made more sense to say draconic kobolds are celebrated and just note that intersex kobolds commonly also bare draconic mutations.

Eh, but I guess it's close enough. I hope no one tries to push some NPC intersex half-dragon kobold (which they mentioned to be a rare but badass thing they didn't stat) who is the CG exception to his/her kind and has converted the rest of his/her warren to CG under her rule after leading a rebellion against the chief when a copper dragon spoke to her.

Sorry, but you're apparently as genetically malleable as a dragon. Or a human. The former should make you feel better.

Ah, that's right.

>Who even cares about the sex organs of a kobold, anyway?

Not kobolds, but apparently a kobold with both sets of junk hatching is reason to celebrate. That's the only thing that bugs me about it, but like I said before, based editor saved us from a worse fate and the kobolds made an honorable sacrifice for the good of the rest of the book.

>> No.42836008

There aren't any level 2 stances. But level 2 maneuvers are really good for ranged strikes, it's were TG starts getting into the Combat Maneuver shenanigans, Solar Wind starts getting multihit stuff, and EF starts picking up on damage.

Discipline focus is a great feat, but you shouldn't get it for Elemental Flux because guns aren't a discipline weapon for EF, so you won't get the +2 damage and save DC unless you take Weapon Group Adaptation (Firearms) first. Discipline Focus Tempest Gale will give you similar levels of control and will actually buff your damage without needing Weapon Group Adaptation.

>> No.42836027

Gunsmoke Mystic considers guns a discipline weapon for all of its innate styles, I thought?

"In addition, she always considers firearms to be a discipline weapon for these disciplines."

>> No.42836039

That outfit hurts my eyes.

>> No.42836043

So, hypothetically speaking, the BBEG of my next campaign will be a wizard turned lich. The said lich, due to PrCs(and some houserules relating to PrCs), has access to about a dozen spells from other spell lists(half of which must be necromancy spells). What spells would the lich choose if he was trying to convince people that he's actually a cleric?

>> No.42836054

The worst bit is that the hood is a /hat of disguise/. She looks like that on purpose. She doesn't have to.

>> No.42836061

>That's the only thing that bugs me about it

Not trying to say your opinion is wrong, but what's so bad about kobolds celebrating one of their hatchlings having dual sex organs? It's canon that intersex kobolds come with all sorts of draconic features, so if the little slimy bugger coming out of their egg has both an innie and outie, you'd know it's going to grow up into a representation of the beings you practically worship as gods.

Not to mention sex has never been a thing reptile races do for pleasure in pretty much every fantasy setting out there, sex organs don't hold the same significance to a kobold or lizardfolk as they do to a human or elf which means the stigma of being intersex shouldn't be there.

>> No.42836064

I don't have Gunsmoke mystic available to check, so I was only speaking in general terms. If that text is in there, go for it.

>> No.42836083

2e's was particularly flavorful, and there's no beating the feel and atmosphere the art gave it.

That shit was godly

>> No.42836156

It doesn't even make fucking sense that 'intersex' kobolds would be more draconic: Dragons have fucking genders.

Really, the fucking race gives no fucking fucks about fucking 'gender identity'. To anyone who's actually ever had issues or struggles with 'gender identity' that would be a wonderful race to deal with.

Only to those who only care about making everyone else "check privileges" does something like that bullshit need to be added. Because a race that doesn't care about gender isn't a race they can shame and put their name all over a rewrite "that made them no longer the patriarchal oppression of privilege" or some other stupid shit.

It's an attention stunt by the writer, who as always believes anything except they right now can't possibly matter or be valid "BECAUZ PRIVILEDGE TRIGGERS", and kobolds are the unfortunate victim this time around.

>> No.42836167

>apparently a kobold with both sets of junk hatching is reason to celebrate
I think you are suffering from a meta eye view of it.
The kobolds honor dragons, and their own who are emblematic of them.
They discover that intersex kobolds are more likely to resemble their dragon overlords.
Thus, they celebrate intersex kobold birth, because to them, it means (true or not), one of their own is elevated.
From the text and the fluff, draconic traits manifest with age, not at birth, so it makes sense when you are not looking for a reason to be mad, anon.
That is where, to me, all this discussion breaks down, because you have people putting in their 2 cent when they are determined to be outraged, not because of what is written, but because they can twist whatever is there to suit the boogeyman of their choice.
I don't see anything particularly foul about the npc half orc/transexual couple, sure it's a little bumpy in it's writing, but it's a standard "love wins over all" story with a twist. I wager I have no truck with it because I'm not looking for a "agenda" or have a bone to pick with the devs. It makes a world of difference in perception when you color everything thru the lens of your choice.

>> No.42836186

Yeah. Just trying to decide whether two extra maneuvers is worth more than Discipline Focus. Both seem really solid. I'm leaning towards the extra maneuvers though, since I've already run into situations where I've wanted more maneuvers in a particular niche

It's just tough since I don't have bonus feats to rely on.

>> No.42836209

>It doesn't even make fucking sense that 'intersex' kobolds would be more draconic: Dragons have fucking genders
>applying real world ideas to a fantasy setting where weirder shit happens, like changlings as a whole
This is exactly what I was talking about with "looking for something to be outraged about".
The changling deal made little sense because it retconned origins that had remained steady for years. The kobold change is something added that changes nothing about who they are collectively, only adds another fold to their culture.

>> No.42836220

Because earlier in the same book, they pretty plainly say that kobolds don't care about what sex you are and treat reproduction as more of a chore than anything else. It doesn't make sense that they'd throw up the banners and get out the confetti when an intersex kobold hatches. If that intersex kobold has draconic features, then yes, sure, they would celebrate (although it's also a little hard to imagine them celebrating with as dreary an impression of kobold life as the book gave us). But it would also makes sense that they'd celebrate a non-intersex kobold that has draconic features, and not celebrate an intersex kobold if it doesn't have draconic features. Sure, I can accept that the two might frequently occur together, but in a nutshell what bugs me is that the book basically says "they celebrate intersex kobolds because they usually have draconic features" instead of saying "they celebrate kobolds with draconic features, which are usually also intersex".

It's not about there being stigma about intersex or any other sex, I don't think that would be an issue for kobolds either. It's about the fact that they unnecessarily wedged in an interest in intersex where it really doesn't make sense for there to be one- the kobolds should care about the draconic features, not the sex organs- especially because earlier in the book (on the same page even, if I remember) they explain that kobolds don't care about your sex one way or the other. Am I making sense, or do I just sound like a crazy loonie?

>> No.42836224

You can live without discipline focus. I wouldn't consider it as necessary as getting the maneuvers you need when you need them. Better to get your ranged attack feats set, then worry about improving them, or getting the maneuvers you need.

>> No.42836257


That's the thing, Crystal wanted to make Changelings intersex because they *would* give a fuck about their gender identity and it would mean there's that much more suffering in their setting on account of what's between your legs.

The editors chose kobolds precisely because it wouldn't fucking matter what's between their legs.

In a sense Crystal is truly monstrous with her insistence on giving Changelings a large percentage of intersex members because Changelings are ALREADY the "my instincts tell me life shouldn't be this terrible" race, and slapping a penis on it will only make things worse.

Like why the fuck did she want to make Changelings intersex? Why? What will that fucking accomplish? It's not short-sighted, it's not some theme they're going with, it's nothing but a developer wanting an entire race to suffer EVEN MORE than they already do for absolutely *no reason at all.*

>> No.42836275

the whole "penises make everything worse" worldview shoehorned all over is rather irritating too.

>> No.42836291

She's jealous of the ease with which we pee standing up.

>> No.42836299


I understand what you're saying but the reason "they celebrate intersex kobolds because they usually have draconic features" over "they celebrate kobolds with draconic features, which are usually also intersex" is because the draconic features probably take time to manifest, whereas it's pretty obvious to someone trained in medicine whether or not a hatchling is intersex.

It's celebrating something because it will lead to something else.

>> No.42836304

Wait, I thought she was trying to make Changelings transgender, not intersex? That's different, isn't it?

Crystal has a penis, that's her issue. She hates herself, and assumes so does everyone else with one.

>> No.42836332

No, she was trying to make them intersex. That's what pissed everybody off - nobody would care if they were trans because for an all-female race that actually makes a degree of sense.

>> No.42836344

>Wait, I thought she was trying to make Changelings transgender, not intersex? That's different, isn't it?

Nope, she wanted to make Changelings intersex.

Transgender is "I have a female body but I feel like a man" or "I have a male body but I feel like a woman."

Intersex is (often) "I feel like a man/woman but I have the sex organs of both."

Kaine from NieR is Intersex, she sees herself as a woman and has all the womanly parts, but she *also* has a penis.

Crystal wanted to make the all-female race of Changelings have a large percentage of Changelings that also have dicks or testicles.

>> No.42836351


Okay, just got done reading Sacred Geometry. What in the actual fuck was anyone thinking? The learning curve for casuals already is intimidating and then we have shit like this?

>> No.42836356

>If that intersex kobold has draconic features
Well, for a start, what are "draconic features"?
Are they something that comes from birth, something that comes up as they age, something that spontaneously pops up one day?
There is a lot of talk going on when the underpinnings of it that the discussion needs to have relevance aren't present.
If draconic features are present and identifiable from birth, your argument has some weight.
If not, then your entire argument means nothing.
Further, it ignores the social phenomenon of ascribing Y to Z, rather than X to Y to Z.
>kobolds love dem draconic features
>notice intersex kobolds have them more often than any
>yeah, these niggas got the dragon touch!
>intersex kobold is born, warren gets hype because good odds that the dragon shit is there
>Like why the fuck did she want to make Changelings intersex?
Has anyone asked and got a serious response? I'd like to see it.

>> No.42836372

See, I wouldn't mind if she wanted Changelings to have a fairly-large portion of Transgender individuals; it makes sense in an all-female race that steadfastly tries their hardest to avoid becoming a hag like dear old mom that some would come to identify as male, either from stress, comfort, or attempting to resist The Call more easily.

>> No.42836380

I'm not looking for something to be outraged about, and I don't think I'd even say I'm feeling outraged. A little annoyed is more like it. I'm less upset than I would be if they had slapped the intersex thing on changelings like they originally were going to. But I just find this inconsistency to be kind of grating.

Well, I don't agree with that, which is probably why we're disagreeing over it. A breath weapon, sure, that might not be immediately apparent. But something like dragon horns or a dragon's maw, or especially dragon wings? That sort of thing is going to be immediately visible from birth, especially to someone trained to recognize it (like any kobold egg-tender would probably be). Even for features that do only manifest later on, I imagine kobolds would wait until the actual draconic traits show up before they start celebrating, because again, they don't really care about the intersex part.

>> No.42836389

>Kaine from NieR is Intersex, she sees herself as a woman and has all the womanly parts, but she *also* has a penis.
We call that futa, anon. Makes good porn.
System mastery, anon. That literally is the explanation for it. It's not about casuals, it's about people that have been playing the game for years and know how to do it "right".

>> No.42836398

That's exactly what I remember reading, though. In fact, /pfg/ got angry that she suggested that trans changelings should get a bonus to resisting the Call.

>> No.42836412

>Has anyone asked and got a serious response? I'd like to see it.

I actually think I saw her give a reason once, granted this is all probably hearsay and should be taken with a grain of salt, but the rationale she had for making Changelings intersex was Hags are cruel and the addition of a penis on an otherwise healthy baby girl would make her growing up that much more painful, leading to increased suffering and isolation from the community.

That's it, that's the reason, Crystal wanted to make Changelings intersex because it would make them SUFFER.

>> No.42836425

Unless you go LE, then it's Mammon.

I would like to see the two of them start an international banking consortium on Golarion along with the Prophecies of Kalistrade.

>> No.42836439

>A little annoyed is more like it
A little annoyed people usually see something, gripe a bit, then move on with their life. You are actively fighting for your point, which suggests far more than annoyed.
>But something like dragon horns or a dragon's maw, or especially dragon wings? That sort of thing is going to be immediately visible from birth, especially to someone trained to recognize it
According to who? Again, this depends on knowledge we don't have. You are basing an argument on something an unknown, and it undermines your entire position.
Gimme the post, as I've learned better than to accept hearsay as truth on 4chan, especially when it comes to a maligned figure.

>> No.42836569

Another riot?
Grey Maiden inspection?
Arial brawl between Imps and Pseudodragons that gets out of hand?
Cerealian Society learns about it and wants their share of the cut?

>> No.42836572

that demilich looks distressed

>> No.42836594

>Relying on gods of money to protect your investments
>Not securing your treasures with the financial services of Tiamat, Tiamat, Tiamat, Tiamat, Tiamat, & Co.

>> No.42836603


>> No.42836610

>they team up
>able to completely annihilate chaos by sheer power of money

>> No.42836637

I'm only actively fighting for it because the subject was brought up. Call me out on it if I bring the subject up out of nowhere just to complain, not if I try to explain what I think is a problem when someone else asks about the subject.

Anyway, according to what I think is common sense. I mean, you're arguing based on the unknown just as much as I am, because the text also doesn't explicitly say that the draconic traits AREN'T immediately visible. When you read it, you have to make the assumption about whether the kobolds are born with draconic features visible or not, and I think it makes sense that most draconic features would be visible at first.

But, also, there are the kobold's alternate racial traits:

Some kobolds are hatched with scales of such vivid color that their connection to a particular sort of chromatic dragon seems undeniable.

>Gliding Wings
Some kobolds are born with wings that, while too weak for actual flying, do allow them to fall at a very slow and safe pace.

So, at least some traits are immediately visible from birth. Something like a breath weapon might not manifest until later on, but I feel like kobolds would generally wait until they actually see proof of draconic heritage before they start partying. They might get excited and whatnot about this hatchling that looks likely to have draconic traits, but why waste time and resources partying it up for a kobold that "might" have draconic traits? Party for the ones that you KNOW have draconic traits, and then get back to work, there are traps to build and adventurers to kill.

>> No.42836895

>they waken Karzoug
>Golarion is drowned in a wave of gold and dosh
>Lawful-Capitalist becomes the most powerful force in Golarion
>Commission more Ward Stones, Worldwound secured
>Build ironclad boats able to withstand hurricanes, Eye of Ebendego solved
>Pump EVEN MORE MONEY into Taldor, regime stabilized region prosperous
>Begin loaning money to Galt, make them dependent on outside funds
>Pour money into Lastwall, fund them until the Orcs are wiped out
>Golarion is saved by the power of money

>> No.42836952

>fill the pit of Gormuz with billions upon billions of gold, sealing off rovagug forever

>> No.42837042

Gold wasn't enough to stop Smaug, why would it stop Rovagug?

>> No.42837055

so let's say I'm an investigator in a low-combat high-social game. what is my best use of downtime that comes up? crafting? am I even allowed to use Brew Potion or is that a special trait of the alchemist?

>> No.42837074

>Golarion is drowned in a wave of gold and dosh

>> No.42837079

I think you are underestimating just how much fucking gold we're talking about here.
These fuckers are so rich, they're gonna repossess Baba Yaga's hut and leave Grandma out in the snow for Christmas.

>> No.42837082

They didnt use enough gold.

>> No.42837109

What about when she won't vacate Anon? She'll just sit on her porch with a loaded shotg... with a loaded bundle of wands in her lap, waiting for the tax god to come and try to take her chicken leg hut. Dagnabit.

>> No.42837130

I feel like she'll just act like a passive-aggressive babushka and just shame away anyone who tries to evict her.

"Don't mind me, dear, I'll just freeze to death in the snow."

>> No.42837150

What are good rogue talents? Unchained and Normal.

>> No.42837199

Don't worry, we'll give her a loan, yes!
At premium interest, of course.

>> No.42837223

She's going to pay it all in copper pennies, Anon. From the Russia.

>> No.42837227

I'm sure she'll accept once she sees our perfectly reasonable refinance rates. The hut could use some home repair and she can finally move into that nice condo in a pleasant gated community.
Built by Mammon Housing Inc. of course
Turn your magical artifacts into cash now!

>Abadar, you don't fool me! I remember when you were just a boy yay high to my leg counting your pennies and burying them in the back yard! You don't fool me, with your fancy talk and your city ways! You think you're so special with your money and pricey words, I remember when you were sucking on your momma's teat!

>> No.42837398

Rather than breaking down those scenes into why none of them strike me, I'll share what I decided on doing;

A while back, actually with the finding of the Queen's Brooch, I introduced a famous and extremely arrogant Inquisitor who had taken the case of finding the Brooch way back when it was originally lost, but ended up failing miserably and the public shame of it caused him to break down and flee from the spotlight.

In the background, he's been going mad and becoming a villain intent on regaining his fame and making the city regret humiliating him.

Fast forward: When the players finish their planning, their prep, and actually get underway with the cart full of drugs, they're going to find the bridge is jammed up on the other side, the cause being what appears to be upturned prison wagons, and Korvosan Guard and Hellknights brawling in the streets with Goblins, Hobgoblins, and an Ettin. The fight itself, however, was a distraction so that 6 prisoners (I may cut this down since my party has only 4 people) could escape custody.

The lead prisoner was given a key to escape by the Inquistor in secret, so he could free the prisoners and bring them on to be his henchmen/tools with while he will later enact his plans of revenge on the city.

Except the players won't really know any of that. To them it's a strange event that completely throws off their plans and keeps them off-balance.

>> No.42837541

Hey Gareth or someone else from DSP, question for you.

I miiiight have just gotten picked-up to work on something called Spheres of Power Expanded, which will include new options for every Sphere. My question to you all is, how likely or possible would it be to marry the mechanics of the two companies with certain options? A Mystic with access to the Time and Warp Spheres for the ultimate in weeaboo teleportan magick, for instance, or a Harbinger that's very stylized after 1800's/Gothic Stories and is just as cheesy as the original ("It Was a Dark & Stormy Night..." for instance).

Thank you in advance for your reply.

>> No.42837546

Honestly you can't really. Maybe a Synth Summoner with paragon surge, or playing a factotum 11/Chameleon 9 or Artificer from 3.5 would be your best bet. Race would be 3.5 changeling or PF Kitsune.

>> No.42837586

The DSP Steelforge playtest has content for Spheres of Power.

>> No.42837603

It's a bit on a different scale than writing up a welding of subsystems together though, especially when DSP is trying to get them balanced within their own stuff.

I'd personally love to see a PrC theurge between initiating and spherecasting, myself.

>> No.42837608

You ask your masters and I'll ask mine. If the mutual bossmen are happy, I'd love to see it happen.

>> No.42837611

Occultist is probably the best class to come out of it. I think Kineticist is better then everyone gives it crap for, and performs fine in most campaigns, it just has a low optimization ceiling. I think I find Medium to be the worst class in the book, though I really haven't looked at Psychic I just kind of went well that's a lot of pages for some bullshit.

Tin foil cap is best magic item though.

>> No.42837642

Kineticist gets crap because its intended role is "blaster" and it's /shit/ at that. I'd say it's a low tier 4/high tier 5. It has decent enough utility, UMD, and passable (but not good) damage.

The /problem/ is that it's written as a blaster class. 90% of its class features support it being a blaster class. It takes a lot to look at the class and go "I'm gonna ignore all that because the only way to make it workable is as a utility caster."

>> No.42837661

You forgot about the Medium.

>> No.42837695

I was the one who made the Korvosan suggestions.
Looks like someone other than me really enjoyed 'Chimes at Midnight'.

It works perfect in Korvosa, I regret I never got the chance to use it in my game.

Don't forget to use the sequel, Quoth The Raven from issue #150.

>> No.42837699

Alternative racial trait, human: adoptive parentage. Can I take weapon focus without meeting the 1 bab prerequisite?
>Adoptive Parentage Humans are sometimes orphaned and adopted by other races. Choose one humanoid race without the human subtype. You start play with that race's languages and gain that race's weapon familiarity racial trait (if any). If the race does not have weapon familiarity, you gain either Skill Focus or Weapon Focus as a bonus feat that is appropriate for that race instead. This racial trait replaces the bonus feat trait.

>> No.42837704

Already asked, waiting for a reply. Here's hoping.

>> No.42837753

Now I kinda want to make a human who was raised by a vampire or a lich.

>> No.42837842

I've done that. the lich in question was a Big Bad for the campaign setting a few centuries back and when he survived the alliance that dismantled his army, he said "fuck it" and went into seclusion. Picked up a good book and just whiled away the time, as it were.

My character was raised by this lich because he was getting lonely and she was this surprisingly convenient orphan whose trader parents just got run down by some bandits, and she escaped into the woods near his tomb. He took her in and just started talking to her about things. Over time, she developed an interest in magic that he fostered, and he ended up basically being her father after a while.

It was a pretty interesting story point when the team finally got to meet him, as he was this jovial old guy who doted on his adoptive daughter without coddling her.

>> No.42837877

Friendly skeletons make me happy.

>> No.42837925


Meh, I like to look at them as great switch hitters, that are highly mobile (without having to rely on items or caster to buff them) with much better utility than any tier 5, and arguably better utility than any tier 4 class. If you want straight damage then you go Elemental anihilator.

I'm not going to argue that the class has issues or that the Elementalist from spheres of power does it better in general, but people really freak out over the damage, which is weird since the general motto of Optimization is damage isn't the important part, and over burn which isn't a good mechanic, but is significantly more manageable then people make it appear.

>> No.42837937

>Looks like someone other than me really enjoyed 'Chimes at Midnight'.

I wasn't sure if just name-dropping it would explain.

I pilfer from modules extensively, and Chimes just had such an awesome villain I couldn't not use it. I may try and squeeze Raven into the second book, but I don't know. I'll have to look into it.

>> No.42838122

Also related to the build Shatter defenses, With a nonlethal weapon and enforcer I get an intimidate check when I deal damage, is this enough to activate shatter defenses, or do I need to hit him again once he is already demoralized?
>Any shaken, frightened, or panicked opponent hit by you this round is flat-footed to your attacks until the end of your next turn. This includes any additional attacks you make this round.

>> No.42838162

New thread?

>> No.42838170

> with much better utility than any tier 5
>and arguably better utility than any tier 4 class
lets not exaggerate. It's high T5 or bottom T4 at best.

>but people really freak out over the damage, which is weird since the general motto of Optimization is damage isn't the important part, and over burn which isn't a good mechanic, but is significantly more manageable then people make it appear.
Burn is an absolutely awful mechanic. At its very best its something you just *tolerate* as a consequence of the class. I think this is the only time I've found a class mechanic that explicitly punishes you for using it, which is incredibly strange because it also has things to encourage you to take burn.

The problem isn't that the Kineticist has bad damage and utility, its power level is more than sufficient to keep it competitive among T3 and below classes. The issue is that the class isn't remotely close to strong and versatile enough to justify the heavy penalties burn applies to you. And your definition of not that bad is strange, because utilizing your maximum burn potential will eat through the overwhelming majority of your health for the rest of the day, even if you manage high rolls on your hit die most of the time.

I could write an entire essay on the issues with the kineticist, but the tl;dr of it is that the class is highly schizophrenic, has too many limiting mechanics balance out its relatively weak class features, and is so ridiculously easy to shut down that an unaware DM could do it COMPLETELY by accident.

>> No.42838227

>DM targets "con tank" Kineticist because player keeps boasting about massive HP pool
>character drops unconscious instantly

>> No.42838260

They're only demoralized after they take the damage, so you'd have to hit them again.

>> No.42838452

The only tier 4's that might have more utility are Paladin, Bloodrager and Adept. Honestly I'd say Kineticist are pretty on par for adept in utility depending on the spec (aka any but fire). Compared to the adept it has better with better saves, better defenses, more hp, and more damage.

This isn't the best example but at max level assuming you max out your overflow with 7 burn you will have roughly 40 con (18 base +5 levels +5 inherent + 6 enchant + 6 size) so you will have roughly 274 hp, which is pretty good. I'm not gonna argue that burn is good, but if you just get to your over flow max you should be fine at most levels.

>> No.42838613

Any signs of the Heroes of the Street PDF?

>> No.42838652

I'm willing to drop it if an actual PDF isn't around.

>> No.42838687

If PF releases a 2nd edition, what innovations should it borrow from 5e?

>> No.42838712

I saw it while browsing drivethrurpg.

>> No.42838732

That koala is freaking the fuck out.

>> No.42838745

Drow version when

>> No.42838748

>I'm not gonna argue that burn is good, but if you just get to your over flow max you should be fine at most levels.
But see, it's that exact thinking that makes the kineticist a miserable class to play in my opinion. If you aren't taking burn you have all this potential sitting around with its thumb up its ass because you don't want to be on the cusp of death for the entire day.

99% of the kineticists abilities do not justify a daily limit, and the ones that do could have EASILY been rebalanced accordingly rather fucking the entire class with Burn and Gather Power.

>> No.42838813

New thread:

>> No.42838915

Ohh Kineticist. Why must you be so terrible? I've recently hopped into a side game on the weekends with a group I usually don't get to hang out with very often. The group was convinced that KIineticist was "OP as hell and Burn was the perfect nerf". I tried explaining how and why the Kineticist was awful, but they refused to listen to anything I ever said; that was, however, until the game actually started and I had to re-read the rules on how Burn, Gather Power, and Blast infusions worked. Needless to say their opinions on Kineticist went south rather quick.

It was also rather sad that I needed to use the Rogue to show how abysmal the Kineticist's Blast was since Sneak Attack was another damage mechanic that was an additional +1d6/2 levels that also offered more crap on top; Rogue talents that caused bleed damage per die, picking up the Pressure Points Ninja Talent to deal a point of Str or Dex damage per Sneak Attack hit, Debilitating Blow, etc. What exemplified that all the more was a Rogue with Two Weapon Fighting, dealing Kineticist Blast damage in spades and doing more to hinder the target than any save-or-suck infusion could ever offer.

>> No.42838930

They wouldn't, being 3.5e compatible the only reason people buy their shit.

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