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/tg/ - Traditional Games


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42816348 No.42816348 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Assuming dragons were both sapient and of comparable intelligence and physical stature to humans (i.e., not gigantic overlords of treasure and death), how might the two species develop a mutually beneficial society? How would the fundamental fields of industry, agriculture, warfare, and politics be affected? Could such a society even reasonably exist?

[spoilers]Hard mode: no discussion of interspecies procreation.[/spoiler]

>> No.42816490

>>42816348
Just use Ctrl + S

With flight, I'd see Dragons tending to live in Cliffs and hard to reach mountains. They'd push for hotels and skyscrapers early on.

>> No.42816549
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42816549

Hmm. I'd say cattle farmers would be the first to strike a contract with the dragons. Something like "You keep wolves, bears, and lions from the flock and you can keep X sheep per season along with regular meals." Also I'd imagine flying dragons would be able to protect a fuck load more sheep than the average shepherd so it'd be more profitable to hire dragon shepherds than regular ones.

>> No.42816585

>>42816348

Imagine giant cats with thick armor plating, the ability to fly and fire-breathing.

Now imagine them with the ability to think.

They don't need to be huge, they're still deadly and the stuff of nightmares.

>> No.42816623

>>42816348
>no discussion of interspecies procreation
Recreational sex then?

>> No.42816684

There would be chaos as you have a bunch of human sized lizards that can:
>fly
>Breath fire
>Maul someone to death easily
>Eats meat

>> No.42816728

>>42816623

One would assume that, if there is the possibility for intellectual attraction by virtue of sapience, yes, there'd certainly be the possibility.

>> No.42816802

>>42816684
Humans are pretty good at killing each other and also eat meat, and yet we fairly consistently managed to create order without especially-rampant murder and cannibalism most of the time.

>> No.42816828

>>42816348
spoiler, not spoilers

Also gigantic doom lizard is best dragon

But in the subject of your question, flight would be a major game changer even discounting what else dragons can bring
Though I do wonder what advantage humanity would have here, it would be very easy for this to end with dragonic overlords here

>>42816623
That could be something humanity could offer though

>> No.42816845

>>42816684
Change "breathing fire" to "has a gun" and you have a redneck with a glider.

>> No.42816869

>>42816828
Humans have the big advantage of having hands with fine manual dexterity and opposable thumbs.

>> No.42816875

>>42816348
Humans enslave everything non-human.

All the time, forever.

>> No.42816991

>>42816869
No idea about his setting but in D&D all true dragons have a stat mod of +0 dex too (regardless of size, the average dragon always has dex 10) so their hands are just as dexterous as a human's

>> No.42817100

>>42816348
>how might the two species develop a mutually beneficial society?
If both species are undeveloped then murder to reduce competition
If one is more advanced then enslavement
If both are somewhat advanced, look at ye olde Europe and relations with ye olde china.

>> No.42817166

>>42816991
Dogs have a dexterity of 17. Does that mean they have more dexterous hands than humans?

>> No.42817173

>>42816991
Plenty of animals have good Dexterity and no thumbs, and so can't really do a whole lot with their feet. Do dragons have thumbs? Because it doesn't seem like they'd need them, since dragons don't need tools just to survive effectively like we do.

>> No.42817704

A creature like OP describes is going to have a very different mindset than a human due to physiological differences, and as such will probably have a different set of ideas in regards to morals, philosophy, and worldview.

>> No.42817761

>>42817704
Then I suppose the question is how so, and how might the differences be resolved between the two groups?

>> No.42817860

>>42816875
If history is anything to go by, you don't have to be non-human for humans to enslave and/or attempt to genocide you, just slightly different from the other humans.

Mixing in an actual fully different species? Wow, the prejudice, enslaving, genocide, and wars would go off the charts. (Seriously, there would be so much of it that nobody would even bother keeping track anymore. It would just be "tuesday".)

>> No.42817882

>>42817166
My dog used to undo the lock on his crate, pretty damn dexterous for someone with no fingers.

>> No.42817929

>>42817860
You don't even have to be slightly different, you just have to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

>> No.42818033
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42818033

>>42817860
>>42817929

So, there would have to be some sort of unifying event for the two to start coexisting; some mutual hardship like calamity or war that would lead to cooperation and eventually camaraderie.

>> No.42818051

>>42816348
>not gigantic overlords
>not having a society based entirely around servicing the needs of a mountain-sized dragoness

>> No.42818074

>>42816348

Most thought experiments like this one assumes that sapience has universal characteristics. In the most likely case, the alien mind evolved in a complete different environment would be completely different. Emotions and behaviours evolve as strategies to maximize the spread of genes. A species that have followed a completely different path towards sapience is likely to have incompatible physiological characteristics in thoughts and emotions.

A primary reptilian mind might display dogged aggressiveness and unyielding single-mindedness of purpose, and create societies having massive impenetrable hierarchical bureaucracies with individual actions heavily dictated by ritual gestures, elaborate ceremonies and dances, "turf" rules and highly stereotyped, emotionally cold behaviours.

Imagine for example, a species possessing an emotional state that responds to bad weather and compels them to burrow underground. Or that it is programmed to actively furiously seek a sexual partner only during a a particular time of the year while the rest both sexes are sterile. Are they warm-blooded or cold blooded? They might behave differently depending on that. The same when you consider the diet.

As for competition? When important resources are distributed uniformly in space and time then is little opportunity for monopolization, and territoriality tends to occur. When important resources are highly clumped, a small proportion of the population can monopolize most of the available reward, giving rise to dominance chains or 'pecking orders.

>> No.42818136

>>42818033
Like maybe a insectoid race that kills every other sentient race on sight?

>> No.42818199

>>42818136
Too predictable.

>> No.42818210

>>42818136

Or some natural disaster like a plague or climate change or something that leads to a few small groups cooperating which then snowballs into something bigger.

>> No.42818240
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42818240

Most works of fiction don't attempt to create completely alien creatures. What they do, is to use them as vehicle to represent a particular mindset or race and say something useful about ourselves.

>> No.42818287

Can they fly? Make them traders and couriers from a distant and isolated land with mountains or something. Say that some regular and predictable winds allow them to trade with the main continent.

>> No.42819183

>>42818210
Most of the time a natural disaster or plague or climate change would result in them genociding each other even harder if they're at a primitive/medieval level of civilization, as they'd start blaming each other for "displeasing the gods and bringing their wrath down on us all". Heck, US politicians are doing that even now, and they're supposedly members of a modern civilization.

>>42818199
> >>42818136
> >Like maybe a insectoid race that kills every other sentient race on sight?
>Too predictable.

Sometimes the predictable solution is because it's the most workable solution.

>> No.42819316

It would never really work out. It all depends on who develops sapience first and destroys the other before they can create any kind of society or technology. If it's humans, then the dragons are wiped out. If it's dragons, then the humans are.

>> No.42819458
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42819458

>>42819316
Domestication could happen if the circumstances were right.

>> No.42819587

>>42819316
What if both groups are already similarly sapient and societal at first contact? Perhaps they were geographically isolated, or divinely created as such.

>> No.42819719

>>42819587
Well, if they were divinely created as such, then they'll get along exactly as well as their priests tell them to. Hopefully their priests aren't hate-mongering warlords like most of human civilizations in the real world have had.

>> No.42821157

>>42816845
>Redneck breathing fire
They would find a way

>> No.42822586

>>42816728
sapience is optional in some cases.

So is compatible equipment.

>> No.42822609

>>42821157
Moonshine and a cigar.

>> No.42822707
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42822707

>>42822586

>> No.42826056

>>42816623
What about recreational sex that ends in babies?

>> No.42826571

>>42826056
At that point it does become interspecies procreation.

>> No.42826600

>>42816348
This Thread is just for more Dragonporn, isn't it?

>> No.42826837

>>42826600
But OP wants the bad kind, same sized dragon porn

>> No.42826892
File: 2.79 MB, 640x360, exterminatus.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42826892

>>42816348
genocide

>> No.42826893

>>42826837
What's wrong with that?

>> No.42826942

Dreamworks have made two movies and television series about this very idea.

>> No.42827006
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42827006

>>42826942
gay porn is still porn

>> No.42827041

>>42826893
The dragons are too small

>> No.42827049

>>42826942
..you know that's true, op is essentially describing httyd

>> No.42828648

>>42826892
What is that webm from?

>> No.42829012

>>42826893
No litteral dick ridding or spelunking

>> No.42829046

>>42816845
Not armored. Don't have claws.

>> No.42831350

Bump

>> No.42831392

>>42821157
>Rednecks, uh, find a way

>> No.42831422
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42831422

>>42816802

>we fairly consistently managed to create order without especially-rampant murder and cannibalism most of the time.

I've got some bad news for you anon.

>> No.42831447

>>42828648

I second that. I want me some kebab removal from SPAAAAAACE.

>> No.42831456

>>42828648
Space Battleship Yamato 2199

>> No.42831503

>>42816348
>comparable intelligence and physical stature

then they aren't proper dragons, dragons are MEANT to be better than humans, smarter, bigger, more powerful. Dragons represent apotheosis, their super intellect is usually included in fantasy representations to tie them to us, they represent our moral spectrum amplified.

Big black evil dragons? the worst of human nature
Majestic gold? our best

to downscale that is heresy

>> No.42833050

>>42826056
Well Donkey, looks like you'll have to get a job...

>> No.42835017

>>42826571
Even if it's accidental?

>> No.42835048
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42835048

>>42816348
Procreation wouldn't happen between them anyway. Their genes would be to different.

Although I can definitely see brothels and other such prostitution rings prop up by dragons.

But those would only happen in "mix race" citys. For the most part I see separate societys living next to each other, or within major citys. Kinda like Chinatowns in the USA.

>B-b-but MAGIC
Obviously this thread is about a realistic setting with no magic shit involved.

>> No.42835418

>>42835017
Its still procreation even if its not intentional

I wonder if dragons would prefer missionary or something else
The anatomy in the op looks more suited to it than the fully quadrupedal build, but its probably still not fully upright and the wings might make it uncomfortable to lie on your back

>> No.42837455

>>42835418
Missionary looks the most likely

>> No.42837984
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42837984

Is this the thread where we post DRAGONS?

>> No.42838007
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42838007

>> No.42838022
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42838022

>> No.42838044
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>> No.42838064
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>> No.42838087
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42838087

>> No.42838239

>>42837984
Yes
Now post sexy ones

>> No.42838281
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42838281

>>42838239
But anon, big and powerful is sexy for dragons

>> No.42838297
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>> No.42838311
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>> No.42838328
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>> No.42838338
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>> No.42838363
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>> No.42838380
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>> No.42838396
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>> No.42838416
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>> No.42838837

>>42838281
Exactly

>> No.42839054

>>42838396
That little buggers smile really warms my heart

>> No.42839309

>>42838087
>>42838087
You just know that's going to lead to trouble when it grows up.

>> No.42840605
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42840605

>>42835048
"...and... then... he... thrusts... his... fiery... sword... towards... the... reptile's... flooding... cloaca..."

>> No.42840881
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42840881

>> No.42840971

>>42831422
What, that murder rates has fallen down in the modern world since it's less needed to get by/being profitable and that cannibalism is mostly forgotten about around the globe?

Don't believe the mediamans half-truths. The world is getting mighty peaceful.

>> No.42841012

>>42839309
I dunno, It seems to enjoy itself.

You don't go "Oh my god you locked me in a cagebed and never let me go on my own as a baby, you are monsters mom and dad I feel no remorse or guilt for murdering you now!"

>> No.42841220

>>42816549
feels like that would be somewhat below them.

>> No.42841240

>>42840971
PARTS of the world are getting mighty peaceful. The bits that aren't doing so well, they're something of a different story.

>> No.42841319

The interspecies tensions would be off the fucking chain though. We can't even deal with different colors of people and OP wants to introduce dragons? Holy shit, all will burn.

>> No.42842017

I always loved the concept of dragon riders, something like Eragon but better or Legend of Dragoon but with living dragons

>> No.42842341
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42842341

>>42816348
I was actually thinking of this recently for my own fantasy setting.

Living under a dragon is basically like living under Victor Von Doom: You will pull your weight and than some in their societies and as long as you give your 120%, you will live pretty decently and have the protection and leadership of physical demi-gods with surprisingly good planning skills and impeccable aesthetic tastes.

Also, you're day will be absolutely wrecked if your "Glorious Leader's" superiority is ever put into any shade of doubt. Usually by some other asshole dragon.

>> No.42843952
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42843952

>> No.42844557

>>42841220
You don't think there's low class dragons that need to make bank too?

>> No.42845229
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42845229

>>42844557

>> No.42845700

>>42840605

They've become more human than we initially expected

>> No.42845849

>>42845700
I now imagine dragons hoarding god-like amounts of smut.

I talking jaw dropping amounts of literature on every act of pure, unadulterated, undulating, carnal pleasure.

>> No.42845894

>>42845229
I wish he did more female dragon stuff, he draws them real nice

>> No.42846228

>>42841220

These dragons aren't cursed with the arrogance of D&D dragons: they're about human size and human intelligence. Now though, a human referring to them as animals would probably grind their gears like mad.

>> No.42846235

>>42842341

>Super hero free
>Implying Doom is not Latveria's super hero

>> No.42846876

>>42846235
This guy knows what's what.

Though to be fair, he was more closer to a badass, ill tempered, anti-hero than a straight up hero.
For obvious reasons.

>> No.42848795

>>42846876
Eh, depends

>> No.42849077

Reptiles tend to be less social animals than mammals. Seeing as how we kind of expect intelligence as we understand it to be based on being a social animal (communication, complex social hierarchies, etc) dragons would be less social than humans (smaller group sizes, probably).

If they're still long lived, they might associate themselves more with an area or group than with individuals; they might be quite detached from individual humans but closely attached to settlements, places etc. This might also be an echo of old territorality.

They're probably stronger than humans, but with less endurance and reproducing slower. They'll have greater individual importance but be outnumbered.

If they're really long-lived, they might be scholars and intellectuals, gathering knowledge over large timeframes, yet at the same time adjust poorly to new ideas.

Integration might have frictions, but it's not impossible either. They'll obviously be a lot of variety between how they treat each other across the world.

>> No.42849168 [DELETED] 
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42849168

>>42816348
There is no correct answer without a lot more information to work with.
You can define a dragon as a butterfly with the power to transmute air into wood at will, and no one can say that's wrong because dragons don't exist.
Also, this thread is not a traditional game, it is off topic. Dragons appear in some traditional games, but not all, and in other media, and didn't originate in traditional games.

>> No.42849325 [DELETED] 
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42849325

>>42849168

>calling a thread "off topic" after over 100 replies

Wow, the autism is real.

>> No.42849438

>>42845229

And THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is why the tiller at most stores doesn't actually lock if you scan more than the express number of items. I actually asked the manager of my local megamart about this. He told me that, essentially, so many idiots/trolls had shown up with one or two more items than the express limit that they'd removed the lock and just encouraged people to do it. The express lanes (at least in my city) now function entirely on the honor system.

It does seem to work, though.

>> No.42849455 [DELETED] 
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42849455

>>42849168

>> No.42849805

>>42829046
Do rednecks not make armor out of beer cans and claws out of kitchen knives where you live?

>> No.42849842 [DELETED] 
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42849842

>>42849325
>>42849455
99% of threads on /a/ that aren't deleted on sight are directly and explicitly related to anime or manga right in the OP, not "you could theoretically make an anime or manga about this", but SPECIFIC PUBLISHED WORKS.
99% of threads on /v/ that aren't deleted on sight are directly and explicitly related to video games right in the OP, not "you could theoretically make a video game about this", but SPECIFIC PUBLISHED WORKS.
How can you not understand this when they do? Off topic is off topic. It was against the rules then and it's against the rules now. The mod's incompetence does not change what is written for all to see.
By the way, global rule 3 says image macros outside of /b/ are bannable.

>> No.42850054 [DELETED] 
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42850054

>>42849842

>The mod's incompetence

Insulting the mods is a bannable offense, too, you know. Reported.

>> No.42850308

>>42849168
>>42849842
What about this isn't /tg/ related?
It's a fucking world building question

>>42850054
>Insulting the mods is a bannable offense, too, you know. Reported.
So is saying you reported

>> No.42850333

>>42816348
By ensuring anime is never used, discussed, or created.

>> No.42850347

>>42850333
Why do dragons hate anime?

>> No.42850353
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42850353

>>42816348
Mothering.

>> No.42850410

>>42850308
>What about this isn't /tg/ related?
>It's a fucking world building question
Worldbuilding is part of all fiction, it is not inherently a traditional game out of context.
Surely it can't be that hard to specify in the OP that your civilized dragon setting is meant to be used in a traditional game that people will actually play.
Do you post ~worldbuilding inspiration~ threads on /a/ or /v/ with the excuse that human/dragon marriage can theoretically, in the infinite realm of possibility, occur in an anime or manga or video game? That is tertiary discussion and it is deleted from other media-focused boards.

>> No.42850444

>>42849842
We're just talking about half of Dungeons & Dragons.
Your meta posts are the only rulebreaking here.

>> No.42850465

>>42850410
Worldbuilding is the primary compinent of all roleplaying games, all of which are tabletop games.

This is like discussing the concept of crafting systems on /v/. It is a discussion of part of vidya, thus is vidya.

Ya cwaaaaazy.

>> No.42850479

>>42850410
Looks like mods agree this is /tg/ related and your questioning if it isn't

>> No.42850489

>>42850410
Have you really missed the thousands of "imouto wat do" and similar threads?
/tg/ talks about random fantasy shit, /a/ has loli threads and trap threads and and christmas cake threads and meta threads and meme threads.

And why do you think /tg/ is a media focused board?

>> No.42850508
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42850508

>>42850410

By posting it on /tg/, it can reasonably be assumed that the OP intends to use whatever results from the thread for a "traditional game that people will actually play." This is why they posted it on /tg/.

So sorry you need to have everything explicitly laid out for you, but most functioning adults are capable of reading context clues and adapting accordingly instead of throwing a tantrum at the details.

>> No.42850525

>>42816348
I like the idea of a dragon considering a small population his hoard.

Like a little village that raised him from a hatchling or something stupidly sentimental like that.

>> No.42850750
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42850750

>>42850353
I'm so glad this kind of thing is becoming more popular
Still more often monstergirl than full dragon, but its progress in the right direction

>> No.42851438

>>42850750
I prefer them slightly monstergirl like, something between >>42850353 and >>42845229 but built more quadrupedal is about what I prefer

>> No.42851748

>>42816348

To the people who say Genocide I say not right away.

Consider where Dragons would like to live and compare it to where humans do.

Dragons would be comfortable in rocky, high altitude, areas humans wouldn't be. So reduced competition.

Dragons are also smaller than average in OP's post, so they wouldn't be as big of a plague on herders as traditional dragons.

Speaking of herding, dragons would do that. Mountain goats are fucking ridiculous in their ability to climb.

Anyways, because of above reasons there is a chance of humans and dragons not hating each other right off. From there they could learn to get along as they found uses for each other. Humans could be making art, and do medicinal type stuff (pulling thorns out, sewing wounds), dragons scouts, mail, transportation.

Crippled dragons might settle together with humans and pull their own plows.

Any human society that is friendly with a dragon would have a massive advantage over dragon unfriendly societies. (though a large enough human empire could crush a smaller dragon friendly one.)

A human unfriendly dragon empire would not be as medically advanced or have as good medicine because of the hand issue (We were doing cataract surgery as early as Rome, so yeah), and would rely heavily on child labour for things (smaller claws are better for planting, and harvesting and stuff). Which means they would need to reproduce often and it might lead to expansion.

The first 'flying machines' would be earlier and for dragons. They would be more to componsate for smaller wings (injuries and birth defects), and possibly to allow a dragon to rest a bit while in flight.

>> No.42852503
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42852503

>>42850750

That looks interesting.

>> No.42852649
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42852649

>>42852503
It was in the filename, bro
But I'm feeling generous anyway
http://bato.to/comic/_/comics/kobayashi-san-chi-no-maid-dragon-r15514/

>> No.42854375

>>42852649
Thanks

>> No.42854886
File: 547 KB, 675x726, dun du dun.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42854886

>>42854375
While I'm linking foreign dragon comics
http://mangafox.me/manga/the_dragon_next_door/

>> No.42855086

>>42816348
People are far to xenophobic for a mutually beneficial society.
We can't even share a border with each-other without resorting to war and/or slavery/genocide.

>> No.42855515
File: 2.45 MB, 540x300, cute terrible terror dragon.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42855515

>>42852649
That pic is fucking adorable.

>> No.42855777

>>42855086

Again, I say that in the early days it wouldn't be so. I mean seriously, "Oh noes, the dragons are taking our high impassable cliffs where we can't farm!" and "Those crawling humans are taking our fields where it's fucking impossible to catch an updraft."

It's not quite as bad as going "Those fucking sentient dolphins are taking up our oceans where we can't build houses," but it's close.

>> No.42856321
File: 443 KB, 677x919, 277995.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42856321

>> No.42858085

>>42816348
>>42851748

To continue

>How would the fundamental fields of industry, agriculture, warfare, and politics

How advanced Industry are we talking? I think Dragon Chimny Sweeps yes, construction, yes (if they fall they won't die), early factories maybe not. Humans and dragons will out compete each other in those fields

Agriculture, dragon plow? Climbing vine 'farms' that the dragons could tend. Things that would climb up the cliff face and produce noms. Wild carrots are toxic but we bred em to be food. So possibly Ivy could be bred in the same way. Grapes are go, ditto morning glories.

There would be an earlier start on 'hanging gardens' and soil enrichment (bring some horse shit up the mountain to make soil, plant something and let it tumble down the side)

Forestry is going to be important. Dragons of simular size and weight (if not lighter) to humans, small dragons, hard to take off from ground level. So I'm imagining them climbing up a tall tree and taking off from there if they have to go to the low lands, because flapping their wings to get height--and they don't have birdy airfoils? Yuck. Exhausting.

>> No.42862837
File: 111 KB, 600x424, 600px-DragonBreedSizes.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42862837

check out Naomi Novik's series of novels for a take on history with dragons.

>> No.42864103

I'm writing a pilot to a show with a kind of similar premise. The one major difference, I suppose, would be that there's a bunch of other fantasy races as well—and that humans are actually a very small portion of the population. Still, the general dynamics of society would, I think, be similar.

Dragons most often work in the financial services sector, managing banks or mutual funds. They are also very active in the military and politics, although people generally have a fair amount of distrust for the race.

Of course, this is also set in a modern era with thousands of years of social development. I imagine that they societies would remain almost completely segregated for some period of time.

>> No.42864635
File: 666 KB, 400x400, 1408998672122.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42864635

>>42864103
>humans are actually a very small portion of the population.

>> No.42864699

>>42864103
This had better be something that is real and greenlit
If it's low budget animation I'm gonna come back to this post and berate you for it.

>> No.42865875

>>42816348
See: D&D Dragonborn

>> No.42865889

>>42816348
>Assuming dragons were both sapient and of comparable intelligence and physical stature to humans (i.e., not gigantic overlords of treasure and death), how might the two species develop a mutually beneficial society? How would the fundamental fields of industry, agriculture, warfare, and politics be affected? Could such a society even reasonably exist?
I find it way more interesting when dragons, even if they're Sapient and of comparable intelligence, are fundamentally incompatible with human society due to being a wildly different species with wildly different priorities and means of socialization.

>> No.42867235

>>42864635
I can't tell what emotion you're trying to convey.

Humans are so rare because their genes are highly recessive. In fact, most humans in the modern day are born from parents of a different species who happened to have a human somewhere in their bloodline.

The protagonist doesn't know it, but he's one of the last pureblooded humans in existence.

>>42864699
Things don't get greenlit without a pilot script.

Technically I'm writing a full treatment, which is pilot + episode outlines + other stuff. Hopefully I can get it into production.

>> No.42867814

>>42867235
>I can't tell what emotion you're trying to convey.

Agreement. I had no better pic

>> No.42868077

>>42867235
>Character wins genetic lottery
>Not keeping it vague
Maybe, just maybe, if you can push the HARD WORK and DETERMINATION angle, I'll watch it

>> No.42869164

>>42867814
Awesome.

But yeah, I felt like I might as well put a twist on the role of humans. In basically every fantasy world they breed like rabbits and are otherwise not really special, so in this one they're kind of the opposite.

>>42868077
The show is primarily a comedy. The protagonist, a human wizard, has already graduated college and is just entering the workforce.

Currently I have him characterized as absurdly good with magic, but kind of submissive and bad at interacting with people. I think I need to tweak his character a bit, but I'm not sure how yet.

>> No.42869522

>>42869164
I think you need to put some power cap on him. Come up with a reason he can't hocus pocus his way out of everything.

Examples:
>Casting time
Every spell requires a whole song and dance. It would be annoying to have to dance a Can-Can to cast fireball.

>Component Cost
It costs a buck to make a lighter, but you have to sacrifice a Buck to cast a healing spell

>Bureaucracy
He has to submit a form for each and every magic spell used.


What also matters is the supporting cast. Do they bounce off the MC well? Do friends and family like them when they review your stuff, or do they skip certain sections with certain people?

Remember, smart aleck is not a character! Sarcasm is not a trait!

>> No.42869649

>>42869522
I'm putting him in situations where magic is mostly useless in order to give him a power cap. My supporting cast is decent but definitely needs to be more fleshed out, every character except his boss and the dragon are kind of just shells at the moment.

Characterization is probably the hardest part of writing, so it's taking me longer than almost everything else.

>> No.42869937

>>42869649
>Characterization is probably the hardest part of writing

As someone with some experience in this field, I've found that one method of informing both the audience and yourself about a character is to focus on their establishing moment. What's the first situation we see them in and how do they behave in it? What's the first thing out of their mouths? At least in my case, I find this leads to questions concerning their behavior, which eventually become explanations, which eventually snowball into full personalities.

>> No.42870330

>>42869937
The first situation we meet the protagonist in is on the subway. He sees an attractive elf woman and attempts to use his wizard status to chat her up.

Unfortunately, there's a dwarf nearby who buts into the conversation to start asking him about a magical STD specialist, and he lets the conversation spiral out of control almost instantly.

The other characters definitely need better establishing moments, and I'm working on them now.

>> No.42871328

>>42816348
>Assuming dragons were both sapient and of comparable intelligence and physical stature to humans (i.e., not gigantic overlords of treasure and death), how might the two species develop a mutually beneficial society?
Via genocide.

>> No.42872360
File: 1.12 MB, 2480x1748, hangin out.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42872360

>>42816348
Everyone assumes gas the drakes, species war now, but I could see there being a decent chance we actually get along better with them than other races.
The "we can't even handle living near people of other skin colors" argument doesn't really hold water, because its not really the fact that they're different from us that causes racial hatred, but the fact that they're different and in competition.
It is evolutionarily advantageous to promote your own race/community and destroy others, because the guys on the other side of that border/ocean/territory have stuff that you could be using to grow and prosper, and you they.
Dragons in a lot of settings don't tend towards the same kinds of conceptions of value as humans though. They choose to live in inhospitable places that wouldn't be useful for farming, they don't really make use of limited resources like lumber or metal deposits, they don't produce anything to compete with us and if they're intelligent they can choose not to prey on livestock.
There would be eventual conflict over human expansion depleting their available territory and prey stocks, but if they had been developing alongside humans for thousands of years already I would say the outcome would be something closer to the american indians than hitler against the jews. Probably a lot smoother actually, since it would happen gradually over dozens of generations instead of the rapid colonization, and its likely that there would be a more even power balance between medieval era fantasy humanity and large magical firebreathing winged lizards.

>> No.42873130

>>42872360
>It is evolutionarily advantageous to promote your own race/community and destroy others, because the guys on the other side of that border/ocean/territory have stuff that you could be using to grow and prosper, and you they.

Thank god we have modern economics, because that's actually not true in most cases!

I agree with your overall point. No reason for us to kill them.

>> No.42873893

I kind of want to see what happens if they show up in modern day Erf. How would Canada deal with a chunknof their population being dragons, or Mexico? Would they be welcome in the Caribbean?

>> No.42875754

>>42873893
Modern day Erf?

I would say it would be a bloodbath, but honestly it would be a sexual fluid bath.

>> No.42878449
File: 91 KB, 879x650, 1365895347657.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42878449

>>42873893

It depends on a huge number of factors, obviously.
Lets say they're intelligent, and able and willing to fit into society, and don't have any sort of magic or esoteric knowledge that would shake up society even more than their arrival in the first place, and that its a global event and their numbers are fairly small, maybe a few thousand per continent.

Most first world governments take them into custody, as politely as possible but still insistent. A few get killed by rednecks and cops in the initial disturbance. Diplomacy is carried out, huge media circus, its multiple years minimum before they're allowed anywhere without government supervision. Probably transported around via military convoy to secure locations for things like press interviews and an absurd amount of testing. Everything for their own protection as much as anything, you'll have various religious groups calling them satan and probably multiple assassination attempts.

Third world shitholes people will massacre them en masse regardless of governmental stance. Governments will attempt to round them up, some of them handing them off to nations more insistent about their welfare and some of them either keeping them as prisoners or executing them. Its likely that there are serious conflicts over this, maybe some fighting to extricate them. Are you a bad enough dude to rescue the dragons from Kim Jong-il?

>> No.42878473
File: 1.56 MB, 1050x891, dragon roommate and or pet.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42878473

>>42878449

Eventually the more more socially progressive nations would start integration, allowing public interaction in controlled circumstances. Mostly press rallies in the beginning, eventually scalingheh into an actual campaign with dragon representatives doing meet and greets in various cities. Still a ton of controversy, a few of them probably get bombed and it'll be rocky for a while, but in a decade or so public opinion will have shifted in their favor, at least as far as most people will concede them "people" status. They still generally won't be accepted into society at large, but some individual communities probably accommodate a dragon or two, and get a lot of media attention both positive and negative. They're still subject to government protection/control, but efforts are starting to be made to integrate them into regular life. Things like government supplied housing in carefully chosen areas, with a lot of security and on site personnel, and education and employment in fashionable fields like veterinary medicine or teaching that make for good news articles. Maybe some kind of homestay for young dragons, if they don't have familial units, or a penpal type program where you can apply to get assigned a dragon and volunteer your time to help them acclimate.

After a generation or so, you start to get larger portions of the adult population who have grown up with the knowledge of their existence. There will have always been people pushing to grant them various rights, from the basic stuff like freedom to dragon affirmative action, but regardless of what bills get passed on paper it will take at least thirty or forty years for any degree of independent existence to even be thinkable. Assimilation will probably be easier in places that have positive cultural ideas of dragons, like japan, but there will probably be less political drive to fully integrate them than in western civilization.

>> No.42878592
File: 11 KB, 264x282, 1350787229891.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42878592

>>42878449
>Are you a bad enough dude to rescue the dragons from Kim Jong-il?

I think I just found the concept for my next campaign.

>> No.42880658

>>42878473
>>42878449
So if a friendly but terrified dragon were to just appear in my dorm right now, what should I do?

>> No.42880747

>>42880658

Same as with any unknown animal: keep it in your sight while you acquire defensive armament, then guard your life while doing nothing to antagonize it.

>> No.42880795

>>42880747
Well, if it's talking I have a bigger problem.

Let's say it's babbling about how "they actually did it" and begging me not to kill it. Is that the point where I pack up my car and disappear in a woods, or should I call the news immediately so the government can't cover it up?

I mean, fuck, maybe it would be advantageous to just start a twitch stream of the thing while I talk to it.

>> No.42880852
File: 1.99 MB, 350x300, 1419345244581.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42880852

>>42880747
He did specify friendly anon.

After all, could you really point a gun at this face?

>> No.42880858

>>42880795

I believe this is a classic example of the "80's kid" conundrum: something alien arrives or occurs, but do we let anyone know about it?

In my liberal anarchic mind, you ought to let as many people know about that shit as possible. Video of it would go viral faster than the plague.

>> No.42880889

>>42880795
>Contact with an alien civilization will be streamed
That is probably the easiest and safest thing to do. Get re-streamed and updated to numerous YouTube accounts. Government can't make you disappear and just has to handle the situation. It'll suck if it's a lone alium, but being watched by CNN is probably safer than being watched by the NSA and CIA.

Though for some reason, I figure one of the European countries or Canada would be best if it happened.

>> No.42880964 [DELETED] 

>>42880889
>>42880858
Shit, this actually has story potential.

>> No.42881001

>>42880889
>I figure one of the European countries or Canada would be best if it happened.

That's probably a "grass is greener" sentiment, really. And in all honesty, the NSA and CIA probably wouldn't even stumble across the video until it had already gone viral; both organizations are set up to trawl for specific markers rather than something as unexpected or indeed unknowable as first contact.

>> No.42881012

>>42880964
>>42880858
I am hit with the sudden, powerful urge to make this into a story.

...Fuck it, let's go. If this thread is still alive tomorrow I'll post a link to it.

>> No.42881082
File: 97 KB, 650x488, 1291535104651.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42881082

>>42881012

Well, this here's my last bump to this thread before turning in for the night. Here's looking forward to seeing what comes of this, mate.

>> No.42881554

>>42881082
I started writing this in first-person present-tense.

I really hope it comes out not shit, because I fucking hate doing this and I have no idea why I picked it.

>> No.42881812

Would they also be Elemental Breathers? Being able to breathe the Ice, Fire, Poison, etc.

>> No.42882250
File: 938 KB, 885x1308, Nacionalismo.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42882250

>tfw I'm writing a novel of this.

Dude, Avoid monoculture species. Fuck species-wide "Hoarder" stereotypes not backed by biological reasons.

I made four Dragon Cultures (Widra, Okdra, Tradra and Hfadra) and they are all different as fuck. (Check r/createthisworld, to see the fuckers. We played a Lore-based RP game.)

Take some time to play with politics, make some dragons have an aristorcratical tribal makeup or a greek democracy one. or both.

Dragons are fucking gold to work with.

Their Flight forced me to introduce squadron tactiques into an iron age setting. Bombing runs with alcohol bottles and risky Dive bombing.

Epic Three-side holy war between "totallynotislam" dragons and Nature loving Jungle Dragons and Communistoid revolutionary dragons.

I'll thank you for this thread dude. Every helpful post here was Fucking awesome and made me decide to make a CYOA of my "Dra-miri" Nation.

>> No.42882330
File: 444 KB, 724x812, img301.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42882330

Also, How to get dragons to be best buddies with humans 101:

- Get them to be close enough for each to know the other but not as to get them fighting for resources.

- Conveniently place a gold mine half way to both settlements.

-Throw Stupid ass army at them.

The dragons wil get best buddies with humans and drive outh the fucking army. Boom, instant god tier nation.

>> No.42883600

>>42829012
Oh, I like the sound of both of those activities.

>> No.42883628

>>42838044
>dead dude is the necklace

Also salivating profusedly. Heh.

>> No.42884690

>>42880889
>Government can't make you disappear
Why do we assume a single dragon and not mirrions of them all over the world?

>> No.42885993

>>42883628
What

>> No.42886288

>>42872360
>>42873130

This is EXACTLY what I've been saying:

>>42851748
>>42858085

>> No.42886569

>>42884690
I was going off the having some random dragon person appearing in your room while playing vidya. You don't know about the millions of other ones and youbgotta watch out for yourself.

>> No.42886888

In any setting before telegraph, Dragon couriers would Absolutely fucking revoutionize warfare and trade and life by being ultra fast communications.

>> No.42887934

>>42881082
Here's what I have so far:

http://pastebin.com/uSv8wTjW

Sort of stuck trying to figure out what the fuck the characters would do next.

>> No.42888253

>>42869164
>The show is primarily a comedy. The protagonist, a human wizard, has already graduated college and is just entering the workforce.

And this is for a cartoon? Won't sell, unless you're in Japan. America is still "toons are for kids" in a lot of ways, remember.

You need a child side kick focus character for the kids to ID with. *points at all annoying ones in TF Prime.*

>>42870330
>STD specialist

Yeah no, won't fly.

>> No.42888366

>>42887934
This is good, keep going.

>> No.42888795

>>42888253
It's a cartoon comedy in the same vein as Rick and Morty or The Simpsons.

The raunchy nature of the first joke exists mostly to establish that.

>> No.42888989

>>42888366
I can't think of what happens next.

I know I need something to spark the protagonist to start streaming, but that can't just come from nowhere.

>> No.42889904

>>42886888
Why would they be so fast?

>> No.42891204

>>42888989
Why not someone walking in on them and startling them.

>> No.42891336

>>42891204
That might work, but I kind of want to keep it to just the two characters for a while. One on one interaction will let me develop their characters more quickly.

>> No.42891426

>>42889904
Flight, being able to travel as the crow flies would be a huge advantage

>> No.42891628

>>42891336
The dragon could cough or something.

>> No.42892198

>>42891628
That actually gives me an idea.

Thanks!

>> No.42892688

>>42891426

And signal flares!

Smoke Signals, Gondor Calling for aide--That shit is visible for miles around.

But with someone that can fly? You can put it flat or hidden in a valley and the dragon can look down and see it but no one else would unless they also had a dragon.

OH shit, map making.

>> No.42892903

>>42892198
>>42891628
So here's a question: What would twitch chat be like?

>> No.42893839
File: 765 KB, 1080x810, t.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42893839

I expanded my little story about this:

http://pastebin.com/gAjrDrFc

Has it progressed logically? Does the Twitch chat make sense?

>> No.42894270

>>42893839
I think you're doing good so far. I would like to read more.

>> No.42895429
File: 782 KB, 1200x780, 1386827586715.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42895429

>>42893839
Seems fine, I'd read more happily. The escalation seems reasonable and the writing is satisfactory.

Why can the dragon read english?

>> No.42895466

>>42895429
Well, he can speak English, so...

>> No.42895584

>>42895429
If attention gets called to it (which it might be a good idea, since it's a good reason why people would call bullshit) then the dragon has some kind of magical translation gimmick going on. Maybe part of the exile package was a language spell or amulet that lets him read and speak the native language of wherever he ends up.

Or it's an enormous cosmic coincidence that the language he knows just happens to be /really/ similar to english. Depends where you want the focus of the story to be.

>> No.42896459

>>42895429
>>42895584
I'm going to be honest, I have no idea what to do to explain that. I think I'm just going to go with the extremely hand-wavy "Magic did it."

I guess my major problem right now (besides trying to write believable twitch chat) is to figure out where the fuck to post this after this thread dies. I think it has potential, so I want to keep writing, but I don't really know where to share it.

>> No.42896532

>>42896459
Wait for the next dragon-centric thread? They're not especially rare.

>> No.42896770

>>42896459
If you intend to keep using pastebin you should make an account. Its easier to bookmark someone's account page than hope to find a thread

>> No.42896848

>>42896770
http://pastebin.com/u/TwiceScaled

Fair enough.

>>42896532
I can also post there, I suppose.

>> No.42898485

>>42896848
Make the paste public. Can't see sit, cap'n.

>> No.42898893

>>42898485
I don't have anything uploaded yet.

Here, I'll chuck up a new draft before I go to bed.
http://pastebin.com/f51idABC

>> No.42899130

>>42898893
Suggestion: get the dude to find some guns or other stuff.

The dragon might start asking about the world, let him use the computer.

>> No.42899323

>>42899130
Why would he find some guns?

For that matter, how? It's late at night and he's already being watched by half a thousand people. It's too late to be sneaky at this point.

>> No.42899893

>>42899323

Guns for defense and illustration of human murdertech to the dragon. Have a fellow 4chan /k/ dude appear on the chat and offer defense against "muh conspiracy"

>> No.42899978

>>42899893
They'd need to be pretty close to the guy, and I think showing a new inhabitant of your dimension murdertech right off the bat is probably a bad idea.

>> No.42900352

>>42892688
Map making would honestly be the biggest effect. Map making was an enormous pain in the ass and extremely valuable military asset for the longest time. Something like a dragon would be a HUGE fucking help. Back then there were birds used for carrying messages(granted they weren't very smart but still). Not to mention dragon couriers could get taken out of the sky by hostile dragons during wartime.

Also aerial combat including bombing runs would be an enormous pain the ass. Especially fire bombing fleets, fields, and cities would be a goddamn nightmare to deal with. That sorta stuff can still kicks our shit in even with modernish countermeasures.

>> No.42901904

>>42892688
>>42900352
>Maps
I'm kinda ashamed I didn't think of that

>> No.42903702
File: 338 KB, 683x456, 1353704644013.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42903702

>>42816348
>Industry, acgriculture
Assuming similar scale to the pic, dragons would be excellent for heavy labour that doesn't require the kind of fine manual dexterity provided by human hands. Let's also assume no magic or firebreath since that'd just complicate matters further.
Early cooperative tribes/civilisations would be able to benefit hugely- with a couple of dragons on your side you can hunt much larger game and carry more back to your tribe.

However, creatures that large would have have higher energy requirements and so would need more food. To make this sustainable, we can't really just plonk dragons into an earth-like environment and expect the ecosystem to work if the dragons are primarily meat-eaters (at least, not without an increase in the amount of available game, which requires more abundant resources overall, which would require the ecosystem to capture more of the sun's energy which, I imagine, would have further knock-on effects that would butterfly outwards beyond the scope of what I feel confident speculating about).

As far as feeding a somewhat-larger-than-human-size dragon goes, let's say they develop as omnivores since that lets them take advantage of a shitton more energy sources. Any dragon society worth its scales would have a well-developed understanding of agriculture, to the point where I'd imagine it would be a major part of their culture. That's not to say meat wouldn't be a factor; in fact they'd probably have a good handle on animal husbandry and farming as well, it's just that you can't beat staple crops for energy density and ease of farming.

This would probably result in dragons being the first to develop early civilisations as we might recognise them, since they'd need the organisation in order to support the agriculture necessary to feed a larger population.
So far, so similar to human development, which begs the question: where do us puny humies fit into things?

>(cont.)

>> No.42903712

>>42903702
Similar scale to the OP pic, that should be.

>> No.42904310

>>42900352
>Map making was an enormous pain in the ass and extremely valuable military asset for the longest time.

>Not to mention dragon couriers could get taken out of the sky by hostile dragons during wartime.

Yep, these two facts basically make tassured that dragon-friendly (or possibly dragon-enslaving) cultures would become the world powers early on, and thus no genocide and things being adapted for cohabitation.

>>42903712
>Similar scale to the OP pic

Not the OP: Mentally, I was making them much smaller, so you'd need a few of them to carry one human. To cut down on the cliche dragon rider bullshit, which even a dragon in OP's pic could manage.

(Was vaguely imagining large Lab sized PF blue, with lots of neck and wing)

Still, quadruped, so they'd have better hauling power than humans, so what you say on them helping humans in agriculture still stands to a degree.

I'm going to reiterate what I said here >>42851748 and here >>42858085

Fucking mountain goats man. Dragons can effectively herd them on mountains and cliff faces, so there would an effective increase in food producing land.

Growing things like grapes DOWN or up cliff faces instead up up trelises. Things like that.

>> No.42906094

Bump

>> No.42907527

>>42904310
Modern technology completely nullifies most of those advantages, though.

>> No.42907777

>>42904310
>To cut down on the cliche dragon rider bullshit
That's one way to work things, but if anything I think dragon riders would simply foster more cooperation if they were a thing at all (and could either be a result of cooperation or an initial impetus for it). For that kind of unit to be effective both parties must work in tandem; something that requires a good deal of understanding when they are both individuals of comparable intelligence, if not temperament.
If you piss off a horse, it'll throw you off. If you piss off a dragon it'll either throw you off, or pull you off, before punching you somewhere tender and going to look/ask for a new rider.

>> No.42907896

>>42816549
>dragon shepherds
That's massive overkill. Imagine a fucking dragon herding sheep around.
>GET OVER THERE YOU DUMB CREATURES!
OH, YOU'RE ACTING UP? HERE, GRAB A FLAME BREATH, SEE IF YOU STILL FEEL LIKE GOING THAT WAY YOU DUMB PIECE OF SHIT

>> No.42908141

>>42907896
>Human janitors
That's massive overkill. Imagine a fucking creature with a brain comparable to the worlds most powerful super computers, whose race has literally travelled to the moon and planted a fucking flag, having to clean up shit for a living.
Goddamnit it's 5AM I haven't slept and somehow you implying that fictional dragons being "above" a job rustled my jimmies ever so slightly. It's time for me to sleep.

>> No.42908305

>>42907527
>Modern technology completely nullifies most of those advantages, though.

Amazingly, you have to go through pre-modern times to get to modern times.

>>42907777
>if anything I think dragon riders would simply foster more cooperation if they were a thing at all (and could either be a result of cooperation or an initial impetus for it).

True true, and yet the OP didn't mention dragon riding, which is so obvious.

We can actually have it both ways. Recall how young children tend to be treated in pre modern times: they had to pull their weight earlier.

So, children riders, running errands and map making and stuff.

Adult riders would be like modern day jockeys, small. Dragons that carried them would be the equivalent of 6 foot + people who also body build.

Annnd now I'm imagining the African Pygmy Empire--super friendly, dragons everywhere, you're fucked.

>> No.42908351

>>42908141

...the fuck? Dude he said janitors no where in there.

I think I might have mentioned it earlier upthread, but I also mentioned dragon chimney sweeps

>> No.42908403

>>42908351
No the first two sentences are mirrored.
>>Dragon sheperds
>>Human janitors
>That's massive overkill. etc
Janitors were just mentioned to make a point.

>> No.42908529

>implying this thread isn't for posting images of dragons you would fugg

>> No.42908901

>>42903702 cont'd.
Consider that the dragons, while physically powerful in comparison to the average human, lack the same level of fine manual dexterity. They can do pretty much all the same things we can with our hands (let's give them opposable thumbs on their hands/foreclaws, to be nice, because opposable thumbs are awesome) but even the daintiest dragon's hands are a bit fat-fingered compared to a human's.
A dragon's claws/hands will be good for just about everything, but a human will likely be able to do whatever they can with smaller/less materials and greater finesse on average.

This means better fabrics, stronger rope and fishing nets for the coastal and river/lakeside settlements, finer metalwork, whatever goods or serivces you fancy. "Humans are good with their hands" will be perhaps the biggest reasons for the two species to start helping each other out.

Similarly, dragons in this scenario will be handy for humans due to their greater average strength, making it easier to transport goods for cheaper, and their ability to fly. Flight is an enormous boon when applied properly, as a lot of people have pointed out already.

In theory, this all translates into faster societal development since, while there's more people to support and they have higher economic requirements, there's also more people (both humans and dragons) around who can work to provide for those needs. A community of dragons and humans working together in a resource-rich area would be able to dominate any monospecies community in terms of economic output, which leads to the positive reinforcement loop that allows a society to develop culturally and intellectually happening all the faster.

Of course, this ignores the whole warfare aspect, which is where the biggest strides would be made, but this post is long enough already; I'm out of steam and am not sure how much sense this is all making.

>> No.42908962
File: 825 KB, 2040x2907, 1353276501332.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42908962

>>42908529
The thread's contents seems to show otherwise.

Not that we can't also have it, since any situation where dragons and humans end up living together is going to have people on both sides experimenting or just doing it for fun or because as says >>42908901 says, humans are good with their hands, but OP wanted us to at least try to leave it out.

>> No.42908993

>>42908529
This is fine, but there seems to be a lack of that in this thread
I wish there was more

>> No.42909279
File: 427 KB, 800x722, 1432932986620.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42909279

>>42908901
If only such a world existed.

If only.

>> No.42909397

>>42841240
>PARTS of the world are getting mighty peaceful.
Most of the world. Even the places that are still violent as shit aren't NEARLY as violent as they were in ages past.

Sure, weapons today kill more people, but the number of people killed daily has actually grown FAR slower than the population has. In most cases, it has started decreasing even.

>> No.42909421

How taboo would Dragon/Human relationships be?

>> No.42909464

>>42846876
Honestly, Doom isn't much of an anti-hero, or even villain, unless the Fantastic Four is around. As long as you willfully ignore the evil sorcery shit he dabbles into.

>> No.42909478

>>42909397
That's about to change rapidly considering the situation in Syria but hey.

>> No.42909499

>>42907896

Seriously, I'd just feel sorry for the dragons. Sheep are the stupidest fucking animals on the planet.

>> No.42909545

>>42909478
Kebabs gonna kebab.

>> No.42909616

>>42909545
But now there's vodka

>> No.42909725
File: 214 KB, 900x1004, page5.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42909725

>>42909616
Good

>> No.42910601

How the fuck has this thread not descended into dragonfucking discussion already

>> No.42910733

>>42910601
Small dragons are not sexy
Unless they're hammerspace dragons

>> No.42910790

>>42910733
Smaller dragons always seemed a lot more convenient for sexy times to me, but then I'm not into vore so apparently I'm weird.

>> No.42910936

>>42910733
>>42910790
Big dragons and small dragons are equally sexy.

>> No.42911276
File: 164 KB, 1048x700, dragon reclining seductively.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42911276

Have I just been missing it or have lewd dragon threads been rare lately
Maybe the mods have been more aggressive about it

>> No.42911316

>>42816348

>Assuming dragons were both sapient and of comparable intelligence and physical stature to humans (i.e., not gigantic overlords of treasure and death), how might the two species develop a mutually beneficial society?

They wouldn't. Humans would wage the Final War to purge the earth of the demons.

>> No.42911397

>>42911276

>Maybe the mods have been more aggressive about it

hopefully

>> No.42911639

>>42911276
>Maybe the mods have been more aggressive about it
I don't think so, there's been a lack of them in Moe

>> No.42911664

>>42910790
Human sized dragons are boring

>> No.42911756

>>42911664
I don't see it that way. I mean, you've still got the thoroughly nonhuman anatomy on a creature with a human-level or better mind, which is the appealing part for my specific array of degenerate fetishes.

>> No.42911817
File: 113 KB, 692x1155, dunkelzahn_by_broke_pegasus-d7h878b.png.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42911817

>>42908901
So, we're looking at a society of magic-less Dunkelzahns mingling with humans?

>> No.42911920

>>42911664
>>42911756
Best option is objectively magically resizing dragons.

>> No.42912243

>>42911817
>Datajack
>On a great dragon
Not that I disagree with the image's sentiment, but come on.

And I'm not sure, I was under the impression the average SR dragon, nevermind the average great, was way larger than the typical human. The kind of size I'm thinking of, in Shadowrun terms, is probably that of the common drake in dragon form, two to three times the average body mass of a human.
Personality-wise, that would be the ideal. The Big D was bro as hell for a great dragon and a society populated by similarly optimistic and forward-thinking dragons sounds like a great place to live.

>> No.42912784

Imagine if Dragons, even if they were roughly human sized, armor plated, fire breathing, moderately intelligent muscle lizards, shared the human condition of morality?

Humans could absolutely destroy any and every species on this planet with ease, but we don't go out and do it just because we can. What if instead of considering humans a threat they considered with the same regard that we consider monkeys? The problem with everyone's logic that ends in dragon overlords, is that they assume:
>All dragons would work together
>All dragons want to enslave humans

What if dragons had murderers and thieves in their own society that were tried and executed in the same way human murderers are? Essentially the dragons would be better than us, but if they weren't too far superior it would work out rather well. Of course there would be dragons who hate humans and humans who hate dragons but we already have that in our society and we function halfway decently.

>> No.42913204

>>42903702
>As far as feeding a somewhat-larger-than-human-size dragon goes, let's say they develop as omnivores since that lets them take advantage of a shitton more energy sources.
Large flyers will be carnivorous out of necessity, nothing else is both energy dense enough and perpetually available enough. Plant matter that isn't tree nuts or fruit requires too much mass in digestive process for a heavy flyer (which, due to the square cube rule has to be a mass efficient flyer).

Biggest IRL carnivorous flyers have been as heavy as 2-300 kilograms, biggest IRL omnivorous flyers weighed somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 kilograms.

>> No.42913233

>>42913204
What if dragons have tiny nuclear forges inside them and just need to eat Uranium?

>> No.42913290

>>42913233
How do they get the uranium? They don't seem at all well-suited to mining.

>> No.42913352

>>42904310
>To cut down on the cliche dragon rider bullshit, which even a dragon in OP's pic could manage.
Why bother? Quetzalcoatlus northropi was big enough and had enough spare wing loading that he could probably carry a rider unless he was heavy with not yet digested food.

Some say they would still be able to get of the ground with a hundred kilos of rider and saddle. Just wouldn't have that great of flight endurance unless the rider had supplemental O2 to let the Quetzalcoatlus to ride mountain waves to high altitude.

>> No.42913409

>>42913204
Welp. Just goes to show what happens when someone with no real education on the matter tries to spitball things.

>> No.42913426

>>42913290
In some places it's relatively close to the surface, but you're right.

The problem is that they realistically can't exist if they just digest glucose like humans do. They need to extract energy from some other source.

>> No.42913566

>>42913426
Glucose isn't a problem except in terms of its availability in a natural setting or even just a pre modern setting. It's amylum and other larger polysaccharides that a dragon won't be able to carry around a gut large enough to effectively digest.

Give them fat and oil and flesh, and they'll be happy.

>> No.42913624
File: 144 KB, 600x600, 1377310509466.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42913624

>>42913290
That's why dragons have historically been very few and far between. Naturally accessible uranium deposits are incredibly rare.
Once they started trading with humans they went through an extreme population boom, which caused some internal and external tensions.
After a short, difficult period where the two species nearly came to blows, an agreement was eventually reached that allows both sides to exist happily

>> No.42913675

>>42816348
Looking at you picture dragons have thumbs, so they have no reason to enter into a contract with something as weak as your average human.

10,000 year race war begins almost immediately.

>> No.42913688

>>42912784
>Humans could absolutely destroy any and every species on this planet with ease, but we don't go out and do it just because we can.
This is very modern and very western. Humans traditionally exploit a resource until it is destroyed.

The Native Americans, Australian aboriginals, and pre-Maori New Zealanders all caused mass extinction of entire genera.

To say nothing of what the European colonialists and interior aisiatics did.

>> No.42913716

>>42831503
>dragons are MEANT to be better than humans
In Asia.

>> No.42914064

>>42911316
>Herp, I'm a Derpass who can't think and didn't read the thread

>>42911276
>Maybe the mods have been more aggressive about it

Praise!
(I don't mind sexy dragons, it just denergates into Vore and shit like that. Put it on the NSFW threads guys)

>>42912784
Having trouble imagining a flying human sized/massed lizard being incredibly armored

But yes, dragon criminals.

>> No.42914113

>>42913352
>Why bother? Quetzalcoatlus northropi was big enough and had enough spare wing loading that he could probably carry a rider unless he was heavy with not yet digested food.

Because the OP specified HUMAN sized and not Giraffe sized?

>>42913675
>I'm another retard who doesn't think and didn't read

>> No.42914359

>>42913566
I still don't think that's going to be enough energy unless they look substantially different from the traditional dragon.

>> No.42914555
File: 54 KB, 800x475, Hell_Creek_dinosaurs_and_pterosaurs_by_durbed.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42914555

>>42914359
The tall one is a real life carnivorous membrane wing flyer. Sure, it's a tetrapod, not a hexapod, but this is IRL biology, and O2 concentrations are not an issue, because it could fly up into the death zone of the troposphere.

If your dragons don't need to weigh more than 300 kilos, you've got a real life analog you can use.

People think it could probably achieve takeoff with up to 100 kilos of payload too.

>> No.42914588

>>42914113
Quetzalcoatlus northropi wasn't much bigger than a man in his torso, he just has a long neck, a long beak, and a 11 meter wingspan.

>> No.42914606
File: 537 KB, 800x608, Life_restoration_of_a_group_of_giant_azhdarchids,_Quetzalcoatlus_northropi,_foraging_on_a_Cretaceous_fern_prairie.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42914606

>>42914555
They were also terrestrial predators.

>> No.42914751

>>42914555
Sure, but wouldn't they have to b proportioned very differently than how we typically think of them?

>> No.42914777

>>42911276
Don't make me dump my dragon folder

>> No.42914950

>>42914751
It needs a lot of wing and direct, strong attachment to hefty chest musculature, but a hexapod with gracile manipulator forelimbs is still possible, so long as the wing limbs get priority for mass, followed by the rear limbs (it needs to be able to accelerate quickly to a strong gallop for takeoff purposes).

The heavy crocodile tail is the biggest hindrance in the western dragon platform, a thin tail capable of being held stiffly and used as a rudder is acceptable, but kind of unnecessary, and therefore maladaptive

A Wyvern with a short tail would be down right reasonable, biologically.

>> No.42914970

>>42908403

It's a really shitty point, because janitors handle only slightly more difficult than normal cleaning, while dragons are to wolves and lions what a fucking tank is to a gnat.

>> No.42915019

>>42818033
I actually have a plot line where a conquering kingdom approaches from the north into an enclosed valley where both species reside.

The valley has copious amounts of gold.

The enemy army has full intention of conquering, raping and plundering everything, and make the survivors mine the gold.

Then a dergon foregin to the wole situation arrives and learns of the situation. He is a veteran of a Human-dragon conflict.

He starts giving advice to the native dragons when he gets told of the humans living in the valley.

>Flashback to crimes of war

He decides to train the humans in decent warfare, and kickstarts relations between populations.

Long story short, a nation begins as the union between dragons and humans start reclaiming territory taken by the conquerors, and lots of dissents of the conquerors (who btw were a dying empire) go to the new union-kingdom. (1/2)

>> No.42915169

>>42914777
do it

>> No.42915572
File: 199 KB, 1191x555, 1398308583667.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42915572

>>42915169
I don't actually have a dragon folder, just a fuckhuge one labeled Pics From 4chan
I'm too lazy to seek out most of the but have a few

>> No.42915602
File: 614 KB, 825x1075, 1403799276634.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42915602

>>42915572

>> No.42915618

>>42915019
Continue.

>> No.42915715
File: 188 KB, 932x857, 1423630517896.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42915715

>>42915602
I have a lot more Homestuck and vore pics in this folder than I ever thought, also a lot less SFW pics

>> No.42915716

>>42900352
>Bombing runs

Having fire bombing and dive bombing in an early setting is enough to radically change the way tech progresses. Looking for something to fire upwards might make guns/rockets develop faster/earlier.

Iron age aerial warfare... that is a fucking good concept to play with!

>> No.42915735
File: 18 KB, 900x540, 1437794861109.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42915735

>>42915715
Other people are talking so I think I'll stop dumping after the next one

>> No.42915753
File: 212 KB, 1632x1173, Dragon bondage mouthplay.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42915753

>>42915735

>> No.42916134

>>42915618
Nation starts to consolidate as the population increases and the Northern kingdom gets fucked by the combined draconic/human forces.

The dragon becomes popular by his management of the situation and his former military rank. (The dragon is well versed and smart; coming from a dragon only land and having been the first on the partition of lands taken by the dragons on that former war; he got a sizeable amount of wealth; that he spent on the campaign of war. essentially owning the army of the new nation.)

The people start demanding an organization and laws (due to population density) so the dragons "borrow" some law code of other cultures and the general-dragon puts a militaristic flavor to them, in what comes to pass as the first legislation.

Later he gets called to be the ruler of the draconic tribe by a duel with the previous tribe chief; that he wins due to previous experience in combat. After that the dragons and the humans suggest establishing a kingdom over the ashes of the old one; and the general gets chosen as the king. They control most of the old kingdom plus the valley and some sea. Trade starts with the dragon only nation with accepts cheerfully the communications due to the ruler being a dragon and the current regent of the dragons (dragons have an aristocratic tribal rule; but have a "duchess" as a figure head) the duchess having a teen crush on the general.

The first "chapter" ends after the country writes a chart of union where dragons and humans "unite" as to ensure the continued survival of both species.

Next chapter is supposed to contain lots of political goodies.

>> No.42916142

>>42916134
(2/2)

>> No.42916149 [SPOILER] 
File: 1.28 MB, 320x240, 1444098843136.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42916149

>>42816348
lay the dragon son

>> No.42916415

>>42915716
Scorpions and other bolt throwing weapons can easily be adapted for vertical fire, the question is how resilient the dragons are, I suspect that in a no magic setting, you might find that smaller, denser, more numerous bolts are favored over large single spears, basically using a basket of all metal darts instead of a single larger projectile.

I don't think polybolos would be as effective as one might first assume, the gravity assisted feed device probably doesn't like high angle operation.

>> No.42916437

>>42888253

Not true, Adventure Time worked just fine for a while.

>> No.42916505

>>42916437
No fucking way the show works when it's directed at kids.

>> No.42916535

If dragons were not dragons, why call them dragons?

>> No.42916637

>>42916535
What does a creature need to be called a dragon in your opinion?

>> No.42916690
File: 212 KB, 1074x765, 115487652.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42916690

>> No.42916694

>>42916535
What is a dragon? Is it a giant poison breathing water dwelling snake? Is it a man's greed made flesh, a giant cave dwelling acid blooded tetrapod? Is it a giant flying hexapod, breathing brimstone and hellfire? Is it an 11 horned, 9 headed, 7 winged manifestation of Satan in the final battle of the end of Creation? Is it a gigantic and wise ferret able to fly on the north wind, controlling the weather?

>> No.42916723

I wish I had a dragon roommate. I think that would probably be pretty interesting.

I bet a dragon would be a good roommmate. Neat and tidy, scary enough that nobody would rob me, probably appealing to the ladies. I mean, if he was an asshole, obviously it wouldn't work, but if we'd otherwise get along a dragon roommate is ideal.

>> No.42916732

>>42914588

Which makes it bigger than a human.

>>42914950
>It needs a lot of wing and direct, strong attachment to hefty chest musculature, but a hexapod with gracile manipulator forelimbs is still possible, so long as the wing limbs get priority for mass, followed by the rear limbs (it needs to be able to accelerate quickly to a strong gallop for takeoff purposes).

A thing I have been contemplating a bit though it would look weird: What if the mid limbs were the gracile manipulators?

A whip tail could also be another manipulator?/another means to anchor themselves to the rocks, especially when younger

>> No.42917408

>>42916732
Well, being mid limbs would seriously reduce the usefulness of manipulator limbs, and while I lack flyer shoulders, it seems to me that the top-of-shoulder muscles that the mid limbs will have less space for aren't as useful for flying motions as they are for manipulator motions.

They are useful for the galloping launch motion, but perhaps a hexapod gallop instead of manipulators held away from ground in launch gallop could make up for this...

The other aspect is that the long neck is there mostly to move the center of gravity in flight forward, and if your manipulators are behind the wing, that necessitates more neck, instead of less neck, and I guess I dunno how much storm neck you can tolerate.

>> No.42917421

>>42917408
>storm
Stork

>> No.42917546

>>42916732
>>42914113
OP said comparable in size to a human. Quetzalcoatlus northropi is in the same order of magnitude as a human in everything except for forelimbs span.

I'd say that's comparable enough.

>> No.42917566
File: 1.56 MB, 1600x1000, dragon hips.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42917566

>>42914950
>followed by the rear limbs (it needs to be able to accelerate quickly to a strong gallop for takeoff purposes
So what I'm getting from this is that dragons would have hella hips

>> No.42917619

>>42917566
>TFW you will never breed a dragon

>> No.42917627

>>42917566
The hips will be strong for bodyweight, but nothing like the pectorals.

>> No.42917765
File: 187 KB, 1286x585, Bus stop dragon ride.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42917765

>>42916637
>>42916694
Giant, magical intelligent, winged, fire (or other element) breathing doom lizard, that is inexplicably sexy

>>42917566
>So what I'm getting from this is that dragons would have hella hips
The best set of hips

>>42917627
>but nothing like the pectorals.
Also dat chest

>> No.42918056
File: 139 KB, 411x742, Perched Silver Dragon II.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42918056

>> No.42918065 [SPOILER] 
File: 282 KB, 637x800, 1444107316581.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42918065

>>42911276
>He thinks that's lewd
I'll show you lewd

>> No.42918119

>>42918065
That dragon's face reminded me of a rathalos too much. I am overwhelmed by the desire to murder the shit out of it with a giant oversized sword, then wear it's scales as armour.

>> No.42918136

>>42918065
If he could do it without killing me, I'd let him fuck me.

>> No.42918149

>>42918065
Go on...

>> No.42918166
File: 145 KB, 640x400, humansizeddragon?.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42918166

>>42917408

Could use the wing forelimbs like a Quetzalcoatlus. Of course, could do that in a hexaped gait as well.

Mostly I was thinking of being in the fore would give the wings better attachments and they could be used as a quadroped gait, but (longish) mid manipulators could be, idk, like a prawn's mid limbs from District 8, only better.

>>42917546

>>42816348
>Assuming dragons were both sapient and of comparable intelligence and physical stature to humans

>physical stature

Stature:
noun
1.
the height of a human or animal body.
2.
the height of any object.

>> No.42918171
File: 68 KB, 500x822, Fucking perfect_dragon.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42918171

>> No.42918210

>>42918166

I've been imagining something like that, smaller mouth, shorter neck, longer tail.

Incidentally, something that WOULD be a good reason to maintain a tail:

Being attacked from behind, especially in the air.

>> No.42918265 [SPOILER] 
File: 602 KB, 1024x1600, 1444108185927.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42918265

>> No.42918299

>>42918265
Climb in you idiots.

>> No.42918461

>>42918166
The smaller one is far lighter than a man, though.

>> No.42918548 [SPOILER] 
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42918548

>> No.42918619
File: 105 KB, 614x366, quetzalcoatlus-size2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42918619

>>42918461

Stature:
noun
1.
the height of a human or animal body.
2.
the height of any object.

>height

It's not as if the full sized one is actually comparable to a man, anyways.

Also, massing less would be, yanno, REALLY GOOD FOR FLYING.

>> No.42918627
File: 648 KB, 1000x607, Red Dragon's Hoard.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42918627

>>42918149
Were you not satisfied with just that? I shall provide you and only you with more.

>> No.42918652

>>42918627
This reminds me of fucking Ronaldo, the Spanish Lover Bard.

Never do a level 20 "You must be intoxicated" campaign. Jesus Christ.

>> No.42918658
File: 173 KB, 640x800, 1428386604886.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42918658

I've always had trouble with the constant "roll for seduction" attempts on dragons, especially when I have a massive sheet of sub-species and offshoots that can change drastically from sapient high dragon, to animal instinct drakes n such. My players dont get the hint up until I shout in their faces, feel like im the one to blame though

>no its not swooning for you, its rearing back to blow fire!
>no its not being standoffish and quiet, it cant speak!
>no its not going in for a kiss, it gonna friggin eat your face!

FOLLOW THE GOLDEN SAPIENT RACE RULES!

>> No.42918692

>>42918265
>>42918299
>Everyone grab a limb, we're gonna use the bard as a battering ram

>> No.42918708 [SPOILER] 
File: 1.18 MB, 1600x1067, 1444110091968.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42918708

>>42918149
To think that you would carry such lust for the red-scaled. How curious... to think a man would be so passionate for the deadliest, greediest, most furious of all the chromatics.

>> No.42918767 [DELETED] 

>>42918658
Well, in that kind of situation where a party keeps assuming something about the setting different than what the DM had planned, I'd advise rolling with the punches so to speak, in this case making dragons sapient, unless it would horribly break the setting
If the party thinks it's fun to try to seduce the dragon, I say let them
Maybe use it as a way to give them a quest to prove to their beloved they're worthy, or maybe have them end up caught in dragonic or really any type of politics

>>42918692
>Dragoness is a lot loser than they thought
>They end up DEEP in her
>New dungeon, escape from the dragoness's womb

>>42918708
Power is sexy, and I can't think of much more powerful than a dragon

>> No.42918804

>>42918708
I find the idea of being some sort of ultimate pervert who can seduce a powerful dragon and make him his bitch to be highly alluring.

>> No.42918834

>>42918658
Well, in that kind of situation where a party keeps assuming something about the setting different than what the DM had planned, I'd advise rolling with the punches so to speak, in this case making dragons sapient, unless it would horribly break the setting
If the party thinks it's fun to try to seduce the dragon, I say let them
Maybe use it as a way to give them a quest to prove to their beloved they're worthy, or maybe have them end up caught in dragonic or really any type of politics

>>42918692
>Dragoness is a lot looser than they thought
>They end up DEEP in her
>New dungeon, escape from the dragoness's womb

>>42918708
Power is sexy, and I can't think of much more powerful than a dragon

>>42918804
I wrote this long ago, I think you would like it
http://pastebin.com/BbFLxkVR

>> No.42918880

You'd probably wind up with lots of coordinated areas. It's not hard to imagine Not!Asia and not!Mayans worshipping them/ living with them.

>> No.42919107

>>42918834
That pastebin was very, VERY fucking relevant to my interests.

I wish it was longer.

>> No.42919228

>>42919107
I've kinda been thinking about going back over my old greentexts saved in that pastbin and turn them into proper stories, I got three new stories I plan to do already, but I think I may turn that one into a proper story after that (or if I get bored writing the other three)
Keep an eye on the weekend scifi/fantasy smut threads on /d/ and maybe the writefag threads on /aco/ if that pans out and a longer version may pop up in a month or three

>> No.42919286

>>42918658
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ON-7v4qnHP8

>> No.42919569

>>42919286
>Dragons measure the worthiness of their mates by sexual prowess
>Go to fantasyland
>Use modern economic principals and technology to become incredibly, impossibly wealthy
>Dragon poon all night long

Problem is, if I did that, I wouldn't be able to stop myself from singing Loadsamoney at least once a day. Could get annoying.

>> No.42919637

>>42919569
Eh, worst is a member of your dragon harem gets annoyed enough to eat you
Just make sure to have a few rings of elemental immunity handy
Should be pocket change at that point

>> No.42919785

>>42918619
If he'd just said stature, I'd agree with you, Autismo, but when you add the descriptor physical to the phrase, it becomes more of an all traits combined total physical measure, IMO, and to me,
>gigantic overlords of treasure and death
are not 5 meter lanklets outmassed by known exceptional human specimens.

They might not fit in your shitty hatchback, but they are a monster on a more human scale than your typical monster manual adult dragon, which can vary from 3 to 5 times larger, and doesn't even represent a fully grown specimen because D&D dragons are indeterminate growers, unlike a pterosaur.

Indeterminate growth, by the way, is retarded in realistic flyers, because of the square cube law.

>> No.42919834

>>42919785
Never mind that a 25 meter adult red dragon is supposed to weigh almost 100,000 kilos instead of 250.

>> No.42920597

>>42914970
But its not a shitty point, saying shepherding is below a dragon, and suggesting it wouldn't happen is like saying a human wouldn't be a janitor.

>> No.42921792

>>42896848
I do hope this is still being worked on.

>> No.42921843

What would dragons do in a WWI kind of setting?

What role would dragons have against Stukas and IL-2's in WW2?

>> No.42922043

>>42921843
>Dragons in world wars
Jesus christ the percentage of dragons dying in those wars would be even higher than humans, because muh flying murdermonsters.
>Dragons in WW2
Now that sent some ideas through my mind.
The welsh dragon riders would probably protect the English channel from the air as well as the british navy protected the sea, and England would be as tough to take as it was in regular WW2.
Australian ohgodwhydoesithavesomanypoisonousspikesandrainbows giant snake dragons would mean that anzac was even more uneven towards the Turks than it was in regular WW2. Seriously, how do you lose so many men when you're on the defence, fucking strayan murdermen.
Japanese Dragons would probably kick some serious ass compared to America's heathen Aztec Quetzalcoatl. Though America would probably have a mix between them and European dragon immigrants who are closer in power to the Jap dragons. America will have an even harder time fighting the Nips, though the outcome will probably end up the same. America is winning and realises that continuing down the same path won't really be winning if the japs force them to kill 'em all. The nips get bombed so hard they become kawaii. One dragon barely survives being in range of both nukes when they hit and internet shitposting about how stronk jap scale is starts 60 years in the future.

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