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[ERROR] No.42694792 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Pathfinder General /pfg/

Lini a Cute Edition

REMINDER: If you are asking for character build advice, make sure to mention whether or not any third party is available!

>PATHFINDER TIER LISTS: http://pastebin.com/hJM3FUiN
>PATHFINDER TIER CHART: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OG15EBUB1n4IEHl5GhzpV10hYqPkgtbfj4PIxZFh0E0/edit#gid=0
>Downtime Guide (First Draft): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qO_xb3s3X_w18Pa2z2uf3fvmXYf9CJC8z2hi1TSbl3g/pub
>Path of War - Expanded links: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?423981-Dreamscarred-Press-Path-of-War-Expanded!-%28Discussion-Thread-VI%29
>Steelforge Playtest: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?430138-Dreamscarred-Press-Announces-Steelforge-Playtest

Old Thread: >>42676646

>> No.42694850


> Tierlist anon here, gonna be updating the pastebin soon.

Proposed Changes
>Medium to Tier 4
>Medium (Spirit Dancer) to Tier 3

Topics for discussion:
>Sorceror (Psychic Bloodline) to Tier 1 entry
>Bloodrage (Urban Bloodrager) to Tier 3
>Alchemist (Preservationist/Promethean Alchemist + Planar Preservationist) to Tier 2?
>Spiritualist (Fractured Mind) - does the replaced SLA options mitigate the power discrepancy between it and Summoner?

>> No.42694879

In regards to familiars...

There are a few feats specifically meant for familiars, so it would be strange if they never got feats.

>> No.42694886

For those who might have missed it near the end of the last thread, Mourners updated: http://dreamscarred.com/mourners-by-royal-decree/

As always, taking feedback and critique.

>> No.42694958

It's meant that you would trade out the feats they normally come with for the feats specifically labeled for familiars (although if the DM will let me, I like to trade one out for the Cosmopolitan feat).

>> No.42694960

Alchemist to tier 2 with the note that it has to be both of those archetypes combined. Promethean by itself is terrible, while Preservationist actually carries enough weight to possibly tier 2 by itself.

The SLA options for Spiritualist are pretty weak. You get 4 uses of the first two SLAs, 3 uses of the third, and 2 uses of the fourth while trading out a defensive stat. Great if you're making DIO as a vampire spiritualist since he can stack Cha and get HP, not so great for non-undead.

>> No.42695001

From previous thread:

I'm brainstorming ways to get a Dweomercat or its cub as a companion.

So far, I know I can get a Dweomercat Cub as an improved familiar, but since Familiars can't learn feats and don't progress in stats as fast as an animal companion, they're not that great as a frontliner compared to a big cat companion of similar level.

What do, /pfg/?

>> No.42695053

In your particular example no action would be required. A staff (and most 2H other weapons) can be held with only one hand and can be assumed to have a hand free when not currently performing actions with it that require both hands (such as making an attack), so no action is required to let go of or re-grasp a held item with your second hand. Dropping a weapon/object is a free action, and if you wanted to do something more involved like straddle a scythe like a pretend horse it'd be a move action.

>> No.42695121

Gentlemen, you are in charge of making an Unchained Fighter to fix the poor martial class.
How would you proceed?

>> No.42695136

What if I had Snapping Turtle Style as a feat? Could I one-hand the staff when opponents are attacking me, then switch back when they're about to provoke attacks of opportunity?

>> No.42695155

Path of War?

>> No.42695158

The Fighter can use any weapon in his possession as part of an attack, regardless of whether or not he actually has it drawn.

Fuck it, let's get stupid.

>> No.42695177

Make feats meaningful, to counter how relatively few many characters get, and provide more gain relative to non-fighters/non-psywars.

>> No.42695194

Either give them a pool of choosable abilities, or give them some power to bypass prerequisites.

Seriously, the Woodsman can bypass prereqs, but the Master of Arms can't?

>> No.42695208

At least in regards to how I'd interpret the rules at my table, it's a no-brainer yes. You wouldn't even need to specify that you're letting go and re-grasping with your offhand from a rules standpoint (though you may want to occasionally just as a roleplay thing)

>> No.42695211


Gets to make full attacks as a standard action

Gets an extra standard action at levels 6, 11, 16

Gets to freely exchange standard -> move -> immediate/swift actions

Gets to counter/dispel magic as an immediate action

>> No.42695214

The Fighter is not "just a guy with a sword" but a person trained in the conceptual and metaphorical art of fighting. He can attack concepts, ideas, and spells to destroy them using his over-powering strength of will or hot-bloodedness.

>> No.42695228

The fighter can trade a bonus feat for a non-caster class feature from another martial class per level but the prerequisites must be the level the same class can gain that same feature.

This means a fighter can get Rage, Flurry of Blows, etc as long as he has the feats to spare.


>> No.42695233

As the Fighter gets more levels, if his Int/Cha/Wis are not at a certain level (like 15 or whatever), they count as such for the purposes of acquiring combat feats.

>> No.42695238

That solves none of the problems but makes rocket tag come in fast and hard.

>> No.42695249

It would be an interesting passive, I believe, but he's still just taking class features from other martials, instead of having anything that defines him as his own.

>> No.42695251


nice meme

>> No.42695272

Besides monsters that are immune to fear/mind-affecting effects because of their type (undead, constructs, vermin, oozes), how frequent is immunity to such effects at higher levels? If the campaign rarely has undead, constructs, vermin, or oozes, will I still be running into a lot of enemies I can't intimidate just because Paizo staples immunity to fear onto a bunch high-CR monsters?

>> No.42695278

More skillpoints.

All fighters get all the weapon focus and weapon spec feats for free, and improved critical on top of that. Heck, lets throw in a couple of combat maneuver feats too while we're at it. This helps free up their feat slots for utility crap.

Add combat feats that contribute utility, such as a brawn over brain style - 'may apply STR instead of CHA to UMD' or some such dumb shit. Also: add feats that do what existing good feats do, but better, like some kind of Improved/Greater Dodge which grants evasion or something.

Their shtick should be 'you have enough feats to afford the shit that people wouldn't normally take, so take advantage of it.'

>> No.42695288

What if his fighter level can be used instead of the stats required to meet the prerequisites for feats?

>> No.42695302

Exactly as-is that'd be clunky and easily broken, but giving Fighters a modular Ex/Sp/Su ability progression similar to Rogue Talents or Rage Powers that includes bonus feats as an option would go a long way toward improving the class. Some static or style abilities filling some of the early dead levels would be a fantastic addition as well.

>> No.42695308

That's kinda useless. Combat Expertise requires 13 int, meaning he would need to be level 13.

Hell, even if it was "double your Fighter- level" he'd still have to be level 7 to take that feat.

>> No.42695316

These are kinda good and fits with the fighter's "I'm a warrior with multiple talents and disciplines."

>> No.42695329

How about he can add his fighter level to his stats for the purposes of meeting prerequisites for feats?

>> No.42695350

Nice try, Paizo dev. We expect to be paid for some of our inputs.

>> No.42695374


How about he ignores them

How about the feats don't even have those dumb prerequisites?

Combat Expertise doesn't even exist anymore because of Dirty Fighting anyway

>> No.42695383

Fear becomes pretty crap against most things that aren't humanoids pretty early, but general mind-affecting wrecks the shit out of plenty of stuff.

>> No.42695392

>Fighter with Rage, Sneak Attack and Flurry of Blows

>> No.42695393

Why Unchain it at? Why keep it at all? Fighter is a very bland class with about as much flavor as the Warrior NPC class. The only reason to use the Fighter class is mechanical reason- you want the bonus feats most likely, or the proficiency with all the different weapons and armors. It also suggests nothing about your character, unlike a dip in something like Barbarian or Monk does (so you'll never hear someone say something like, "Well I would dip Fighter, but that seems so out of character for ___."). That's why Fighter is so dippable. But what character concepts are there that only the Fighter is suitable flavor-wise to build for, especially now that we have classes like the Brawler, Swashbuckler, and Slayer?

I have a better challenge than trying to make an Unchained Fighter. Present a character concept for a Fighter that could not be adequately done with a different class.

>> No.42695409


I know someone who refused, absolutely REFUSED to give Legend RPG a try because there was no Fighter class, only paladin, barbarian, ranger, monk, etc.

>> No.42695435

This guy?

>> No.42695437

That's pretty dumb. Fighter in legend is literally just Ranger, maybe with a track swap.

>> No.42695441

Demoralizing with intimidate is both mind-affecting and a fear-effect, correct? So do intimidation-based builds just fall apart around the mid-levels unless you're an Antipaladin or something else with a way to negate those immunities?

>> No.42695445


Fighter has all the class flavor that you as a roleplayer can manage to convey. It's definitely a challenge but it's really fun once you get it worked out.

>> No.42695446

>mfw the DM revealed to me that hags in her setting come in both evil *and* good varieties
>mfw I would've liked to know this sooner before writing about my character's backstory dalliance with a hag

>> No.42695454


>> No.42695470


Why keep other classes? Ranger/Paladin/Barbarian/Monk/Rogue/etc should all be Fighter subclasses/archetypes

>> No.42695477

Where did the Gandasa come from, and why is it the best 1 handed weapon?

Actually scratch that first question, I can google that. Why did they make a better 1-handed weapon?

>> No.42695483

I am normally on the side of the people who think Fighter shouldn't exist as a class, but there's something to be said of the blank slate "you can fight" class.

Everyone can fight, but this one is a build-your-own-warrior class. The fact that it failed at implementing that satisfactorily is another issue entirely, but stuff like the barbarian, brawler, swashbuckler... They all come with default fluff attached that a lot of people don't feel like they're allowed to remove.

>> No.42695550

Classes are number systems. That is it. It is up to the player to decide how it all works fluff wise, and it is up to the GM to determine if that particular way it works fits the setting.

>> No.42695595



>> No.42695681

Some classes are number systems, and some classes have fluff tied in. Personally, I think that the classes themselves ought to be number systems, and then the fluff packages and abilities ought to be something similar to 5e's backgrounds (which are an ability, some extra gear, two skills, and some other proficiencies).

Have a class that's "Focused Warrior" with a state they can enter to become stronger and tougher, abilities they can get to augment that state, and general combat stuff. "Skirmisher", a class that gets positioning abilities and bonus damage if you're line up right with your allies, as well as some mobility things and skills. "Artillery Mage", a magic caster focused on blasting. "Mind Mage". "Full Magic Healer." "Martial Healer." "Martial Mage." "Teamwork Mage."

And then you get the background packages with have fluff abilities. Cleric/Paladin/Ranger/Druid/Wizard/Sorcerer/Psion/etc would all have their own additional things people can get, and then rules for making up your own by modifying existing ones as needed.

Sadly, this sort of system would get an outcry against it by a significant part of D&D/PF's fanbase.

>> No.42695687

That's really not true at all.

Barbarian means something. Paladin means something. Monk means something.

You can't strip the fluff away from them without taking away the very identity of the class.

>> No.42695695 [DELETED] 

It's from Liber Influxus Communis

>> No.42695722


The Metamorph is from Liber Influxus Communis.

>> No.42695733

Barbarian means a melee-focused fighty guy who has a super mode. Monk means a guy focused on punching things, and has the ability to get superpowers. Paladin is different; its abilities are heavily tied into its fluff, but even if you remove the fluff, you get "guy with an eclectic mix of supernatural powers that help himself and allies and lets him murder a specific group he hates better."

It definitely removes the fluff identity of the class, but I can refluff any of those as needed without killing the mechanical identity. Except paladin. Because its fluff /is/ mechanics, aggravatingly.

>> No.42695764


Barbarian means someone who speaks a different language

Paladin means a member of Charlemange's round table

Monk means a member of a monastic order

Those are all backgrounds, not identifiers of personal ability (although the paladin probably has some combat skill to suit his station)

>> No.42695765


I once played an Armored Hulk Barbarian as a shock trooper who went into battle trances.

Same mechanics, drastically different feel.

>> No.42695767


>Alchemist (Preservationist/Promethean Alchemist + Planar Preservationist)

What's the trick behind this one?

>> No.42695835


Notably, paladin is one of the /only/ classes like this. Clerics don't need gods, so if you take them without fluff, you can replace it with whatever. "This person has some thematic abilities, gotten because he got bitten by a radioactive dragon."

Druids? You're someone with a pet, some magic, and some shapeshifting. Metal armor interferes with your stuff, but if you never wear any, it will never come up. You might be a psychic shapeshifter whose "animal companion" is an extension of yourself with a dumber proto-mind. Might be a wizard with an especially powerful familiar, casting "polymorph" when you wild shape, and having a massive "spellbook" that you study, but don't actually need in a pinch. Sorcerer? See cleric. Wizard? Fluff the book as something else and you're good. Rogue? Fuck, the class has no fluff on its own anyway. Summoner? You're not summoning an eidolon, it's the work of an enemy stand. Synthesist is you going Super Saiyan; the eidolon is the golden flames and your piles of natural attacks are fluff for punching really fast.

>> No.42695839


"Classes" are good, but should be based on packages of "Can do X all day long" or "Can perform X a certain times per day"

Then you pick a background/tradition that tells you how you do X; A "wizard" goes invisible 1/day by using Arcane Magic. A rogue goes invisible 1/day by careful planning and using his contacts, etc.

>> No.42695843

What? No. Only Paladin and Antipaladin have mechanical effects based on fluff, and even then, there's a lot of wiggle room, based both on the setting and the divine source that paladin has. Hell, Paladins don't even have to be divine; 'Divine spellcasting' is just a mechanical system for spells that differs slightly from Arcane magic. It doesn't necessarily have to be divine at all, especially when you consider Clerics can cherry pick domains by following a philosophy. A Dwarf Paladin could obtain his power from his ancestors, but he'd have his paladin code of honor to follow, and if he falls, he falls because he dishonored himself and his ancestors, and they forsake him because of that.

Barbarians just get mad, and hit stuff. Except, they don't actually have to be angry; Rage is just a STR/CON Morale bonus that has some restrictions on what you can do during it. Maybe it's a burst of reckless courage, or maybe it's just a heightened adrenaline rush, or maybe it's any number of things because classes don't fucking have mandatory fluff.

If you think a Monk needs to be an Asian Kung Fu master and can't be anything else, I pity you and your thoroughly lacking imagination.

>> No.42695853

Martial Master is the default for all Fighters on top of still having Weapon Training would be a good place to start. A pool of Schrodinger's Feats makes sense for a class like that.

>> No.42695883

Fucking roasted.

>> No.42695916

You can install spell-like abilities in homonculi. Such as, you know, Summon Monster 9.

>> No.42695933


A wizard is 'someone who casts spells'

A paladin is 'A divine knight'

The code and other fluff is just as superfluous as your other examples, especially the cleric.

The fact that other editions of DnD have successfully divorced paladin from LG fluff shows it is realistically possible to do so.

inb4 no true scotsman fallacy

>> No.42695940

Don't SLAs ignore material components?
Fuck SM IX, gimme fucking Gate.

>> No.42695950

How's this for a dhampir spooky zwei sentinel?
No idea as to disciplines I'll replace when I can but here anyway

Get Fear the Reaper, Black Seraph Style and Intimidating Prowess at 3

Get Skill Focus (intimidate) at 5, Taunting Laugh, and Black Seraph Battle Stance

Get Black Seraph's Malevolence and Bilious Strike at level 7

Get Walk in the Dark, Discipline Focus Black Seraph (?) or maybe Guard's Glare at 9

Get Black Seraph Annihilation, Mithral Tortoise Stance, and Abyssal Drive/Charge of Dismay at 11

Get Armageddon Lance at 13

Haven't really planned ahead from there; I'll be surprised if we get to level 10 even

>> No.42695952

And what is that? I've never heard of it before, and my google-fu isn't turning up anything.

>> No.42695955

Pretty much. Legend's Ranger is pretty much Ranger-esque mechanics (sans an animal companion) with the Fighter's "trained warrior" fluff. I remember some fan-made stuff for running Eberron in Legend suggested using the Ranger with the Knight track.

Likewise, d20 Rebirth split the Fighter into three classes. The Fencer is a finesse-focused, DPR fighter, the Dreadnought is a tanky fighter, and the Warlord is a mix of the two with some Bard elements.

Plus, >>42695483 makes a valid point, and you know what my suggestion would be?

Make the Unchained Fighter a martial counterpart to the Incanter.

The Incanter is a build-a-mage class. As-is, it just has Spheres casting and bonus feats. It's about as generic of a spheres caster as the Fighter is a generic martials. However, you can take features from other classes (You can get a bonus to a single Sphere, like the Spheres wizard, a Cleric domain sans spells, a Cleric's channel energy, and/or a Sorcerer domain sans spells and Sorcerer arcana).

Make the Fighter a build-a-martial. Let players exchange their bonus feats for stuff from Barbarian, Pally, Ranger, Rogue, Gunslinger, etc.

Hell, Spheres of Power, and the Incanter in particular, comes pretty close to what >>42695681 is going for.

>> No.42695969


Alchemists can get extracts of Summon Monster 9, they can't get extracts of Gate

>> No.42695981



>> No.42696030


But doesn't that require you to use up potions of the spell? Meaning only spells up to SL3 would be applicable?

>> No.42696064

To be fair, I don't think a Monk needs to be an Asian Kung Fu master, but the rest of my group does. I can't speak for other, but do you folks all play in groups where everyone just disregards the implied fluff of the classes to make up their own? It's one thing to refluff a Barbarian's Rage as a bust of reckless courage, but it's another thing to completely change the fluff of a huge aspect of a class, like if I wanted to change a Cleric's divine magic to be something entirely internal, like psychic powers manifesting from how smug my PC with a god-complex is.

I'm not really disagreeing with you, I'm just pointing out that people can only get away with a certain amount of refluffing depending on their group, which could vary from none at all to completely redoing a class. Would you leave an otherwise decent group just because they think that "Barbarian, the Class" means you should be an actual barbarian and not an opera-singer lady who gets really into her battle-opera songs?

>> No.42696068

True, but Warlord has very similar fluff to Fighter. The only real difference is that Warlord embraces the larger-than-life nature of PCs, while Fighter tries to be mundane.

>> No.42696109

Someone did that a while back with a new version of the fighter that was described as a "feat wizard". Carried around a book of epic tales and seemed pretty cool.

>> No.42696112

>it's another thing to completely change the fluff of a huge aspect of a class, like if I wanted to change a Cleric's divine magic to be something entirely internal, like psychic powers manifesting from how smug my PC with a god-complex is

You do realize that this is /literally/ an option with the cleric, right? That's what a cleric of an ideal is (well, can be). It's a blank check to use the cleric for superpowers of all sorts.

>> No.42696128

>Would you leave an otherwise decent group just because they think that "Barbarian, the Class" means you should be an actual barbarian and not an opera-singer lady who gets really into her battle-opera songs?
Yes, because that's a Skald.

>> No.42696140

Ike was a leader and the Fighter is in no way a leader. Ike is not a combat mongrel with no social skills.

>> No.42696158

>Extracts are the most varied of the three. In many ways, they behave like spells in potion form, and as such their effects can be dispelled by effects like dispel magic using the alchemist's level as the caster level. Unlike potions, though, extracts can have powerful effects and duplicate spells that a potion normally could not.
Extracts are technically potions.

>> No.42696170

Oh, it had to be an extract. Huh. I haven't read it yet, so excuse my whatevering. Still, SM IX is strong.

Let's talk about Astral Construct for a bit, folks. It's a strong power, in the same way SM is a strong power - but as far as I can tell, there's no reason to play a Shaper focused on Astral Construct when you could play a Master Summoner focused on the Summon Monster SLAs.

For one thing, I don't know of any inexpensive way to get a full power Astral Construct without paying the 1 round manifesting time; Hustle Power works, but costs 4pp (3 if you take Adopted to take the Blue racial trait that reduces the cost of metapsionics by 1 for one power), which is a full power level behind.

Plus, the Summoner can take Augment Summoning and Superior Summoning and get 1d3+1 monsters from a list lower, and if he takes a Suzerain Scepter, takes Adopted to gain Deep Guardian, and takes Versatile Summoning to grab Cthonic, all his summoned animals and Earth elementals gain +2 on all attacks as well.

Astral Construct wins out for single monster smack downs, though - Boost Construct and the Shaper 2nd level discipline ability grant two more menu options, and if you Talented Overchannel with the Psionic trait to improve the ML of a power by 1, and wear a Torc of Power Preservation, you're looking at a construct that is up to 5PP higher than your ML, which is almost guaranteed to be able to take on just about any CR=APL monster on its own.

>> No.42696213

This was the third result in my google search, the first result was the kickstarter.


Book has many classes, some feats, haunts, and travel hazards

A small explanation of each class (part 1/2) from my review Battlelord: An officer of a chosen discipline who is a true leader of men. Full BAB combatant who is capable of buffing his comrades without using magic. If you want to make Leonidas, this is your class.

Conduit:This class literally eats/absorbs magic and uses it to power his butt whuppin. Can channel absorbed energy into a variety of roles, but without magic will not do much.
Demiurge: First page has a literal warning of how complicated it is. The Demiurge basically creates and destroys automatons that he commands to do various specific tasks.

Medium: An opportunity to play two classes in one. Primary mechanic is that the Medium has a spirit companion with separate class levels, but shares the same base stats, that you can ask for assistance from or trade bodily control.

Metamorph: Have you ever wanted to use the evolution point system on a character without running an OP Synthesist? Yeah this class is for you. There are a lot of choices in theme and even in stat selection! You get to pick your mental stat for the class abilities for example.

>> No.42696227


I don't know, that seems a bit sketchy. "In many ways, they behave like spells in potion form" is not the same as "treat extracts as potions".

>> No.42696247


Mnemonic: The mental martial artist? Kind of hard to describe in a short summary, but this guy is a martial artist that can punch away spells/feats/skill ranks, copy EX abilities that he witnesses, and eventual even gains telepathic powers.

Momenta: The helper. This support class basically helps with everything. Some support spells here, some conditional bonuses for the allies there, tossing them a temporary bonus feat, throwing someone a sneak attack die, and various other fun abilities. If you want to play a slightly magical Samwise THIS IS YOUR CLASS.

Mystic: Admittedly my favorite class. You get a large Ki pool, pick an element, pick talents related to your element, and pick Ki Techniques (most are SLAs). May sound similar to the Kineticist, but this class plays significantly more like a martial artist. You get to pick from the standard Earth, Fire, Wind, and Water plus the Force element which is secretly Jedi, complete with Mind Tricks.

Survivor: Tough and self-sufficient. Almost every class feature is focused on self-preservation or the mantra of “what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger.” The survivor has full BAB and d12 HD and will be a brick.

Synergist: Builds off the positive vibes of success to create a tidal wave of pwnage through ally buffs. Another support class that is very effective at its job. D8 hit die and capable of assisting competently in combat.

Umbra: Born with a planar connection these guys draw upon the energy of that plane to do crazy stuff like overload an enemy’s muscles with positive energy, giving them a buff, but then having them take a serious debilitating stat condition. The powers provide some pretty different ways to combat your foes.

Warloghe: 1/6th caster with a lot of little abilities and fun flavor. Forms a symbiotic link with a minor evil spirit. Capable of inflicting various status effects and negative energy damage to all that oppose! Though notably squishy and requiring protection.

>> No.42696330

>1/6 caster.

So... If a 3/4 caster gets a 0-6 progression, and a 1/2 caster gets a 1-4 progression, what does that even get? 1-2?

>> No.42696352


For disclosure I was a backer and playtester for this book. In addition its upcoming expansion has an archetype, 2 magic items, and several talents written by me.

The two magic items are
1. A bag that you can link with an allies bag of holding to facilitate item based teamwork within a limited, but generous, range.
2. A Focus item that may be enchanted as if it were a weapon to give enhancement bonuses to unarmed strikes, but not natural attacks. Costs same as a normal weapon.

>> No.42696363

Glitterdust as a capstone!

>> No.42696384

>Not being able to throw glitter parties until Level 18-20

w h y

>> No.42696388

My bad that was meant to be a 1-6 caster, or 3/4th caster.

>> No.42696403


>> No.42696413

Hey /pfg/. I'm in a game that allows all Paizo content, and also allows all Psionic content, but not Path of War. I introduced my GM to Psionics, and he's still reading everything about them so he's basically only letting me use them. I'm purposely not wanting to be stupid overpowered (No 30d6+60 Split Psionic Ray Empowered Energy Rays from 8th level Chaotic Wilders, please), but I'm looking for some advice.

Between our usual weekly games (that have no Psionics) and the solo pbp games, the GM runs arena matches of various types. They're usually against NPCs, though it's somewhat common for infighting to occur over the grand end prize. The next scenario we'll be facing in the arena is as follows

We've got a large forest clearing. There's a big ruined temple in the clearing, and it has a 10' tall foundation. We are inside the temple, though it lacks a roof. The temple is about 50' wide and 100' long (I only saw the map briefly), and the back portion houses a large statue, that we must protect from waves of incoming monsters. About 1/3 of the floor on the other side of the temple is broken and ruined, covered in debris and whatnot, making it difficult terrain (an advantage for us, since it will block enemy charges). There are four or six small towers, two in each wall, that go up another twenty feet, and the walls of the temple are ten feet tall (foundation 10', walls 20', towers 30', from the forest floor).

I haven't the slightest idea of what the party will be, or even how big it is, because these arena matches are dropin style.

I've got 25 point buy, 8th level, with 8th level WBL to work with. I want to build something that will be extremely effective at point defense; it can't be a nova build, because there will be an unknown amount of time between waves of enemies (I don't expect round/level buffs to last more than one wave, and minute/level buffs probably won't last the whole encounter).

What ideas do you guys have formulas this?

>> No.42696425

Note that the level 8 Mystic talent effortless Strikes makes your Elemental Strikes and Blast cost 0 ki points.

>> No.42696455

>formulas this
Phone please.

>> No.42696457

So no role discussion?

In that case I suggest creating an All Comers style Psychic Warrior. Can fit into a lot of groups pretty easily as a form of beef and support.

>> No.42696481

I gotta go shower, so this is the last preview page for now. If you still want them then say so and I'll put up last 2 pages when I get out.

>> No.42696523

I did put together a Master Summoner, focused on Evil monsters (Good might end up being better at this level, though Summon Evil Monster's Schir and Aghash are very potent for the level). 14 SM IVs should be sufficient for this, right? At an 8 minute duration, they should last long enough to go for most of the fight if I space the summons out between waves. Might swap out the two Evolved Summoned Monster's I took for two Extra Summons so I can pull off 18/day, though, depending on what the GM says tomorrow.

>> No.42696535

Oh, right. What's an All Comers style Psywar? Forgot to ask in my last post.

>> No.42696625

How do I build a good Blaster Wizard? I don't mind if I'm not so great at other things, but I'd much prefer to be a wizard than a sorcerer.

>> No.42696647

Minmax for [mind-affecting], force NPC casters to blast for you

>> No.42696658

Alchemist that's been optimized to-the-teeth for bombs seems like it would be a good place to start for a defensive-focused build. Archery Ranger could also do it well if you get the Favored Terrain and if the enemy types aren't too differing as it goes on (not anything like Demons one wave and Zombies the next wave, for instance).

>> No.42696676

>Best magus/monk multiclass build needs hexcrafter magus
>Make unarmed magus archetype
>It can't be hexcrafter

o-okay paizo

>> No.42696696

Anyone playing a Fighter gets the Combat Stamina shit automatically.
Fighters get 4+Int Skill and an ability at level 1 that grants 2 skill points per level which must be spent in Str/Dex based skills.
Any Fighter can pick any two Fighter archetypes and just gain all that shit for free, not sacrificing anything.

And then you make a big fat list of 'Fighter Exploits' that they can take every other level as a replacement for one of their Bonus Feats that explicitly give them Ex or Su abilities tailored to countering a Fighter's weaknesses, i.e. shit like Slippery Mind, Aerial Assault, temporary Blindsight, etc.

If you do all that, you're still probably not succeeding in solving the power gap, but at least the Fighter is decidedly, provably Supernatural and Extraordinary, and more fun and engaging, even if you don't do as well as any Tier 1-2.

>> No.42696724

A Psywar able to deal with multiple kinds of enemies and obstacles.

Basically pick Powers that are applicable in many situations, at least one blast, some buffs, Lions Charge. If you dont think campaign will go above 12 then definitely pick Pathmaster archetype.

Also I guarantee your Master Summoner is stronger than anything you'll find in Ult Psionics.

>> No.42696752

Dip one level in Dual-Blooded Sorcerer and grab Orc and Draconic to gain +2 damage per die, and be sure your school is Evocation with the Admixture sub-school thing.

Take Magical Knack (Wizard) to retain your CL in spite of the Sorcerer dip.

Grab Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus, both Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration, Varisian/Mage's Tattoo, and Spell Specialization (Later, Spell Perfection).
Your first two should be Spell Focus and Spell Specialization though - ask your GM if you can take the PFS substitution to dump Scribe Scroll for Spell Focus, though, because if you're Human (and you should be) you'll get Varisian/Mage's tattoo as well.

At 1st level, you'll be shitting out 4d4 Burning Hands, which is nothing to scoff at. 2nd level is your Sorcerer dip, and then you're up to 5d4+10 on Burning Hands. At 4th-level, upgrade to Scorching Ray, at 6th go to Fireball, and continue upward every two levels, picking a new spell to specialize in each time.

>> No.42696792

1-level dip in crossblooded sorcerer (orc/draconic). Varisian sorcerer archetype is also helpful to convert your terrible bloodline power into a useful one (familiar) and to drop the eternally worthless Eschew Materials, but by the most strict rules you can't stack them.

Admixture wizard to 5 to provide a way to bypass elemental resistances. Take Thassilonian Wizard if you feel like being a worthless piece of shit like the Barbarian, but you should probably skip it if you want to actually be a Wizard.

Bloatmage for


spells, which you will need with your funky spell slot progression.

Enjoy failing all your saves.

>> No.42696815

Ah. Well, I'll probably only bring the master summoner if we end up with just me or a couple of people. I'm good, but even I will slow shit down with that many summons.

I also considered a Brown-Fur Transmuter, though it's lacking the one level (9th) that would make it excellent. I might bring it in anyway, though an Oracle or Bard/Skald might be a better buffer.

If we end up with a whole bunch of people, I'll probably just go with Vitalist and abuse Network Power plus that one Blue racial trait via Adopted to shit out buffs onto the party en masse.

Can Vitalists redirect temporary HP, or does collective healing only work on normal curing (Natural Healing, but not Vigor)?

>> No.42696854


Fighter fails to adequately fulfill Ike's fluff - in-game he is a leader of men and sound tactician. A fighter is neither of these things.

>> No.42696888

A Fighter could fulfill that. Take the Tactician archetype and put some points into Cha.

>> No.42696904

Or just go Warlord or Cavalier and not suck?

>> No.42696944



Drill Sergeant


RIP 4e warlord

>> No.42696946

Speaking of warlord, anyone have any suggestions for making an iron tortoise not suck ass?

>> No.42696980

>RIP 4e warlord
Seriously, grognards crying about "HOW DOES HE SHOUT HANDS BACK ON??" was an humiliating demonstration of how little imagination most neckbeards actually have while playing their elf simulators.

>> No.42697017

The usual answer is by using Black Seraph alongside Iron Tortoise.

>> No.42697087

Just pickup the relatively good maneuvers and then take Invulnerable Shell at 17. Iron Tortoise's main problem is that other disciplines both handle protecting others and protecting oneself better.

>> No.42697154

Might be fun

Still mildly disappointed, when i first read it i thought for sure i could make dual wield shield work

>> No.42697198

You can, it works, it's just not amazing like anything else would be.

>> No.42697221

I would actually suggest A Mindblade specializing in deadly mindshields and Sleeping Goddess disciplines.

Your shields have weapon enchantments and sleeping goddess buffs them even higher, boosting both AC, accuracy and damage.

>> No.42697316

Ill jot that down for later, my DM in his own words is running a "very lethal" campaign so i just wanted to have a backup character ready on the fly

>> No.42697378

>very lethal campaign

Pathfinder is already hilariously lethal once your enemies start lobbing spells with a level higher than 4 or so, I'm already suspicious of your GM being one of Those Guys

>> No.42697408

Its possible, the "theme" of the campaign is darkest dungeon so its likely going to be more traps, diseases and negative modifiers than big mean assholes

well, probably.

>> No.42697440

>gritty-ass shithole simulator with resource management, mapping, and short, brutal combat

PF is literally 0 for 3 on all of these things, why doesn't he use Torchbearer or DCC instead if he wants to run that kind of game

Well, whatever, good luck, just remember that overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer

>> No.42697462

I realized something a moment ago. It's a nifty trick, I think.

Vitalists can double the efficiency of healing powers by Sharing them with their Psicrystal. Effectively, every pp spent becomes 6hp instead of 3. Not bad, but not crazy, either. But if they dip a level into an Arcane Mind Psion and get a Familiar, that Familiar gains Share Powers, and counts as a Psicrystal.

However, you can still take Psicrystal Affinity (and taking Containment gives you three Foci, but that's not my point here), and you can then Share your powers with both of them. This means 1PP spent on Natural Healing is 9HP cured. Much more efficient.

Here's the better part. Vitalists, via Spirit of Many, gain the ability to Augment any Network power they manifest to affect 1 more target per PP. This can actually be better than augmenting certain powers normally; and, with the Network Power feat, you can share other powers (Energy Adaptation is a good one) too.

For every party member in your Collective, your total healing goes up when manifesting Natural Healing. If you manifest it so that it affects a number of targets equal to one half the PP spent, you optimize your output.

For example, let's say Rashet is a Vitalist 7/Arcane Mind Psion 1. He has Psicrystal Affinity and a Weasel familiar. He has Psionic Knack to boost his Vitalist ML back to 8. He has 5 party members, meaning his total number of collective participants currently is 6, since it includes him. He manifests Natural Healing, and augments it to 4PP, for 12hp healed per recipient. He manifests it on himself (1), his crystal (1), his familiar (1), and augments it four more times, using the Spirit of Many Augment option (4). He heals a total of 7 x 12 = 96 hit points, which is significantly more than the 24 x 3 = 72 he'd get if he just augmented Natural Healing to 8pp normally and shared it with himself and his crystal and familiar. The higher your ML, the better this works, too; at ML 16 you get 264 instead of 144.

>> No.42697505

Curious question. Can Vitalists redirect temporary HP? They can move actual healing and ability damage healing.

>> No.42697553

Also, couldn't a Vitalist use Steal Health on his Psicrystal, and since the crystal has hardness, immediately heal the damage it took and the 8 left over can go to other collective members?

>> No.42697568

Hardness and DR doesn't apply to hit points.

>> No.42697594

>This ability may only be used on creatures with a Constitution score and may not be used against creatures in the vitalist's collective.
Never mind, I'm a retard.
Hardness applies to all forms of damage unless specifically applied by that form of damage, like Sonic and Fire for specific types of objects.

>> No.42697706

Right as I retrained my Vitalist as a Shaman because I felt I wasn't getting enough bang for my buck.

Though speaking of, as a quick question for another campaign: which would gel better with Mystic as a gestalt class, Empyreal Sorcerer or Vitalist. I'm looking at the pros and cons of each one.

>Pro: Similar fluff
>Pro: Good for emphasizing blastiness
>Con: Not sure how well it would be for party support
>Con: Arcane spell failure

>Pro: No ACF to worry about
>Pro: Good for emphasizing group hug party support
>Con: Fluff doesn't match up as well
>Con: Lost blastiness potential

3.5 content that doesn't have a PF counterpart is also allowed, so I'm also contemplating making a Warlord//Warmage or Harbinger//Warmage.

>> No.42697853

You're misunderstanding some things here. A) steal health, being a magic attack with no named damage type, doesn't suffer from hardness or hit points. B) even if it did, the hardness would reduce the hit points that the vitalist could redistribute (like how you can't make two same-size chocolate bars from just the one).

>> No.42697862

sorry, I said "hit points" like that other boneheaded mistake, but I meant that Steal Health doesn't suffer from hardness or DR.

>> No.42697873

Need input with my dread 6 / antipaladin 4
I managed to reach 34 intimidate
10 ranks + 5 CHA + 6 STR + 3 Class Feature + 2 Demoralizing Presence + 2 Steel Skin + 3 Fearsome Insight + 2 Racial Feature + 1 War Paint Mask

Because Aura of Cowardice and Aura of Fear stacks, the enemy lose their immunity to fear and suffer -8 penalty to saves.

I don't have any means to enlarge myself and I'm out of wealth.

Any other suggestions to increase intimidate any higher?

My tactic is pretty simple.
>Teleport (boots) as a move action, Channel Negative Energy to Sicken
>Dazzling Display to Shaken, Disheartening Display to Panic.
>Use a combination of devastating touches and touch of corruptions to pile on more penalties
>Enemies suffering dazed, sickened, shakened, frightened and panicked running around battlefield not being a threat to the party

>> No.42697906

Vitalist, if only for the greatness that is Share Pain to a Psicrystal. It's hour/level so do it in the morning and forget about it. Hardness applies to the shared damage, and if you buff up with Vigor before or in the first round of any fight (which you should), you'll make HP damage obsolete.

In a particularly defensive fight, pick Immovability, and let your Psicrystal concentrate on it for you with Solicit Psicrystal. Now you have DR 15/-, and if you share it with your crystal, so does your crystal. That means any damage you take is either reduced by 15 and then halved, the other half being reduced by 23 (since Hardness and DR stack, as far as I know) to your Psicrystal. Plus you can still manifest freely, and you're practically immune to anything that would move you. If you want to be even more sedentary, throw on Energy Adaptation too.

Okay, you're plainly wrong. DR and Hardness are not the same thing.
DR applies to weapon damage.
Hardness applies to all damage.
Certain types of damage overcome certain types of hardness, like DR, but if all magic damage ignored all Hardness, then Fireball and Lightning Bolt would chew through stone walls more efficiently than Sonic damage does.

>> No.42697928

If you're going to Daze people, and that Daze effect works on all creature types, don't bother with anything else because Daze is second only to Stun in terms of how bad the condition is to be in.

>> No.42697934

Oh almost forgot - due to Plague Bringer, I'm also transmitting Cackle Fever with every breath I take.

I have to put on a gasmask in public or when next to allies.

>> No.42697966

I said UNTYPED magic damage, son.

>> No.42697986

Doesn't matter. Hardness applies to all damage unless otherwise specified.

>> No.42698088

Also, a Psicrystal Staff (1000gp) and a Companion Stone of Far Sight (7500gp) combined are one of the only ways to get a bonus to ranged touch attack rolls. It's a competence bonus, a +2, on all ranged attacks. Very nice to have around.

>> No.42698106

I can't spam it. I can only deliver daze maybe 5 times in a single encounter per day.

And no, there are still creatures immune to daze.

>> No.42698113

So it does. Fair enough.

Still doesn't counter the fact that you can't spontaneously generate hit points with the ability if not all the damage goes through (if we're taking the line about not being able to siphon more hit points than the creature had as a suggestion of intent).

>> No.42698125

If only there was a spell that increases size, strength and charisma all at once.

>> No.42698171

Actually, the name 'Steal Health' is a misnomer. You aren't actually stealing anything; you deal damage, and heal an amount equal to that.

>As a touch attack, the vitalist may deal a number of hit points in damage to the target equal to his vitalist level + his Wisdom modifier and heal an equal amount of damage.

The damage to the target and the healing to you happen in the same action, and happen to be the same number, but you're not actually stealing shit. If the healing was reduced by DR, Hardness, etc., it would say so. Rules are always permissive and inclusive; unless it is stated that something occurs, it doesn't occur.

I'll admit that it probably isn't RAI, though you can actually deal more damage than the target has hit points - but you can't heal more than that, which only illustrates the distinction between the damage and the healing further.

>> No.42698184

In fact, if you were to write the class feature text in the most verbose manner possible, it would be
>As a touch attack, the vitalist may deal a number of hit points in damage to the target equal to his vitalist level + his Wisdom modifier and heal a number of hit points of damage equal to his vitalist level + his Wisdom modifier.

>> No.42698204

If we're going to get even more technical here, damage does not reduce your hit points, necessarily; it's more that the amount of damage points you can sustain without dying is limited by your hit point total.

>> No.42698216

>The most common way that your character gets hurt is to take lethal damage and lose hit points.
CRB 189

>> No.42698410

So, I'm coming up on a new Rise of the Runelords game (anniversary version, if it matters) and I'm trying to figure out what to play as at the moment. Currently, we have:

>Sorcerer, played by a newbie to the game. He wanted power but low logistical stuff to keep track of, so the sorcerer seemed like the perfect option for him.
>Warder, He'll be playing the hell out of a very tanky character. This is a guy who knows the game and decided to choose a defensively focused character to let the others shine.
>Undecided, but wanting something similar to a Ranger or Hunter but without an animal companion. Curious to see what he'll decide on, but regardless seems like he wants a lightly armored warrior-type.

Trying to figure out what I should play. the only other Rise of the Runelords got to the point where we were local heroes before the GM had to stop running, so I don't know what we're in for or what bases should be covered. If it helps, my stat rolls are 9, 11, 13, 14, 16, and 18.

>> No.42698424

How about a divine caster?

>> No.42698447

How would you run/convert Dawn of Defiance in Golarion (or otherwise genericish fantasy setting), /pfg/?

>> No.42698459

I've always been the sort to, uh, kind of strongly dislike religious types. It hasn't lent well to me roleplaying them in any capacity, despite attempts in the past.

If you're implying the team lacks support, though, yeah, I can see that - Golden Lion buffs don't cover everything. Are there any "serious buff" classes that don't necessarily worship a deity?

>> No.42698489

Oracle, straight away.

>> No.42698491

Quick PoW question, when it says you know X amount of maneuvers and Y amount of stances, are these separate amounts or do I have to count my stances in those X maneuvers?

>> No.42698503

Stances are not maneuvers, and generally if something means both stances and maneuvers, it'll make mention of each.

>> No.42698509

... You know, I straight up forgot that class existed. Never seen anybody play it.

Thanks man, it's appreciated.

>> No.42698530

I want to marry a Monk!

Tournaments! Tell me about tournaments, /PFG/! I've always wanted to run a martial arts tourny for my players whenever I've had one or more Monks in the party, but how do I handle something like that when obviously the other players who aren't Monks (or even martials) aren't really able to compete? What do I have them do?

>> No.42698730

So what do we know about the Vigilante?

>> No.42698732


It's shit
It's made by Paizo
See above

>> No.42698783

You must be a hit at parties.

>> No.42698878

Have a look at the Feral Hunter archetype for Hunters. They swap out getting a companion for Wild Shape. S'pretty good, or at least it looks it.

>> No.42698896


>Hunter Errata
>Still no Solo Tactics

It sux

>> No.42698931

>martial training 2 opens up level 2 manuevers
>martial knowledge 5 required

am i reading this right? A level three black seraph warlord could get access to multiple 4d6 attacks?

>> No.42698937


>> No.42698949

Remember your skill ranks can't be higher than your level unless you have something special going on, so no, you don't have Martial Training II.

>> No.42698965

martial training is a class skill though, wouldnt he get the +3?

>> No.42698970

Martial knowledge'

>> No.42698971

'ranks in' is the ranks you've put into it. Skill points only, no bonuses count.

>> No.42698973


modifier is not ranks
ranks is not modifier

>> No.42698982

Not for the purpose of prerequisites. Only for actually making skill checks. It changed from D&D 3.5.

>> No.42698993

Anon why do you keep ignoring all the comments to move Aegis to Tier 3 ;_;

If you disagree we can talk it out, but it's been said loads of times with no acknowledgement

>> No.42698999

Makes sense, it seemed a little silly

>> No.42699064

That wasn't me posting. I also agree with the sentiment. At the moment I am waiting for other suggestions to discuss before I update it.

>> No.42699161

Zealot/Warlock are Tier 3
Avenger/Stalker are Tier 4
Zealot has access to either Druid or Inquisitor casting

Most interesting build is probably a Vigilante (Zealot - Fey) with Shade of Uskwood, Channel Energy, and Empower Symbol etc. for a 6th level casting necromancer

>> No.42699466

If it's anything like the last playtest almost everything it can do can be done better with a chained Rogue.

>> No.42699474

Does anyone have the PDF for the Vigilante/UI playtest? I missed it.

>> No.42699748


>> No.42699764

I gotchu bae

>> No.42699792

Thanks fam.
Already using the first one, TBH (to be honest) but thanks.

>> No.42700054

If I'm playing a monk and I'm wielding a reach weapon, do I threaten both squares adjacent to me (with my deadly monk feet) as well as squares 10 feet away (with my weapon)?

>> No.42700056

You know, while the fluff is incredibly shitty, i like the modular approach of the class.

>> No.42700070

That's a pretty good question. RAW/RAI probably 'no' but as a GM I'd probably let you do it after level 6 or 7 because Monks need more nice things.
(I saw 6 or 7 because those are the levels zweihander sentinel and Aegis get a flat +5ft reach)

>Explaining the acronym

>> No.42700071

In 3.5 yes, in PF, I believe not, because you need to decide on your turn if you are freeing a hand.

>> No.42700082

I don't mind the fluff, honestly, but I do feel like something is off about the implementation.
Honestly, if they're going to go for revolutionary type characters, I want the option to play as a mob of commoners. Rabble rabble!

>Explaining the acronym
>Not knowing /tv/s dankest memes

>> No.42700132

The fluff is the best thing about it.

I even kind of wish that the different variants played off the dual-identity thing more rather than just being 'to supplement the poor mechanical framework you start with, you can become an okay version of one of the more traditional classes'

>> No.42700139

But Monks don't need a free hand to make unarmed strikes.

>> No.42700169

But you need to have 2 hands on your weapon to use a reach weapon, unless it's one of the very few one handed reach weapons, and while freeing a hand is a free action, as such, it can only be on your turn.
Like I said, in 3.5, it's not a problem. In PF, I do believe they dropped the hammer on that specifically.

>> No.42700198

Right, sorry, I'm just not following. Can I not simply hold onto my weapon with both hands, and then kick anyone who's next to me? Why do I need a free hand?

>> No.42700204

RAW monks threaten with unarmed strikes and can make unarmed strikes with any part of their body.

So you could be holding a weapon in two hands and kick people (it even specifies elbows, head, knees and feet as valid choices for hitting people with).

>> No.42700242




>> No.42700356

Like I said, man, I literally remember there being errata that said you could not do just that. I am admittedly working from memory, tho.
Can't do that, either. See Magus errata.

>> No.42700381

I couldn't find any errata to that effect, the closest I'm aware of is Armor Spikes +Glaive FAQ, but that was specifically non-monk. If you can find it, I'd like to see it though so I can immediately houserule it away for being stupid.

>> No.42700463

A question about paladin codes of conduct:
Do the different Oaths replace entirely the standard CoC, or add to it?

>> No.42700483

>Armor Spikes +Glaive FAQ
What armor spikes + glaive faq? It seems that my google fu is weak, today.

>> No.42700506


My bad, it was TWF with Armor Spikes and a Two Handed weapon.

>> No.42700523

Ty. This said, i find the faq somewhat stupid. I mean, you could, for example, kick the enemy with your spiked boot.

>> No.42700534

Not unless you're a monk. Paizo believes that unless you're a magical asian, you can't kick for shit.

>> No.42700570

>can't kick for shit
>tfw you can't coup DE grace with a curbstomp
>tfw you can't kick fuckers from horseback
>tfw you can't drop kick bitches in the surprise round and end them in the same action
>tfw captcha thinks pizza is a pancake

Why does Paizo hate fun guys?

>> No.42700605


Pizza is a pancake with tomato syrup, anon.

>> No.42700645

Pancake =/= bread

A pancake with tomato sauce is still a pancake and actually pretty decent if you add cheese/mushrooms/other pizza stuff, but still isn't a pizza

>> No.42700655

>Two characters die last session, class party 200xp from level 6
>"make new ones, halfway to level 6, 6k starting"
>one player builds an archer
>first combat rolls a 1, DM uses some weird crit fumble chart
>"your weapon is now a bee"
>"my +1 adaptive composite longbow is a bee?"
>cue DM evil laughter

This DM, man. He really has an aggressive "Me vs the Players" mentality in combat and it's starting to get nofunallowed, especially since our group doesn't even roleplay. He skips half the descriptions of places as "blahblahblah"

>> No.42700722

>crit fumble chart
This should've been your cue to leave.

>> No.42700781

>using pancake as a platform for pizza toppings and sauce.

>> No.42700801


Bring up the problem and either leave or see it fixed.

Better than complaining about it on a Somalian asylum visa forging sweatshop.

>> No.42701038

It's just nice to vent.
The game is at my place...most of the time it's funny and whatnot, I generally like the group, but taking a player's only decent weapon, throwing stuff that deals ability damage and negative levels, stuff with DR that we can't deal with because there are no vendors in serpent's skull, shattering component pouches, repeated color spray at low levels, shit loot...some of it he's shaping up on (here's a random vendor, here's decent loot), but I think he's used to a powergaming hardcore playstyle and is taking a while to adjust his DMing.

>> No.42701399

Obligatory does anyone have Spheres of Power and expanded options?

>> No.42701474

Ask for the pictureless or drow editions otherwise you're in for an eye sore

>> No.42701580

Are there any Ranger archetypes on par with the Wildshape Ranger from 3.5?

>> No.42701596

>>Not knowing /tv/s dankest memes

anon you should know pathfinder hates multiclassing.

>> No.42701837

Is it okay if I multiclass /pfg/ and /pol/ since they both key off the INT stat

>> No.42701994

So I just looked at the Double Hackbut and saw it's 2d12, capacity 2, range 50ft with the catch it must be set up before use. Or wielded as a large weapon with heavy penalties. However when a half giant (our DM usually allows sensible third party stuff) wields it they only take the inappropriately sized weapon malus.

How viable do you guys think a half giant gunslinger that used this would be? At level 1 BAB is 1 and masterwork reduces the malus to a -1 so a regular shot would be just a d20, or double barrels 4d12 at a -4 to hit.

>> No.42702495

Say I want to remove alignment from my game. How should I adjust things like Smite or spells that are dependent upon alignment? Should I alter them to work on specific types of enemies that will be relevant in the campaign?

>> No.42702551

Is endure pain applicable to kineticist burn?

>> No.42702570

I'd just make them smite enemies. The paladin and the like are balanced around the idea that most of their enemies will be smitable /anyway/, so it shouldn't really break anything.

I'd just kill the holy word line of spells, though. Or roll them into one spell, "Denounce," that hits all enemies.

>> No.42702629

Smite Evil becomes "Smite Opposition to Organization or Ideals that I Represent". A Paladin who hates undead in particular would smite undead, necromancers, and others affiliated with the foul practice. A Paladin of Erastil would smite enemies of his church, likely those who threaten the safety of peaceful communities or who lack proper respect for nature. A Paladin who is on a holy crusade to restore Arazni would smite anyone who stands between him and his goal. Etc, etc.

Just take that idea and apply it to everything else, too.

>> No.42702966

Smite infidel is a common way to say it

>> No.42702998



Neutral Evil is the alignment that can best please a woman, thank you.

>> No.42703046

How do you all parse out loot after a profitable crawl?
In the game I'm in, one of the players had put forth that we all sign a contract signifying we all accept that everyone involved receives equal shares of the loot.
Now that the shit is on the table, that idea seems to have gone out the window, with several players clamoring for a lion's share since they can "use it better".

>> No.42703072

They literallly signed a contract, shits binding yo

>> No.42703082

Equal shares within reason for my group.

If there are five of us and a holy avenger makes up 33% of the total worth of the loot, then fair enough, it's going to the paladin because he can actually use that shit. We'll make do. And next time, when we're divvying up the loot and there's a +6 headband of intellect or something making up a larger than normal portion, the wizard will get it because he uses it better.

You're a bunch of grown fucking men, it should not be hard to compromise.

>> No.42703093

My half-orc Warlord is the leader of the mercenary band in one of the campaigns I'm playing in. We basically go-Loot that people can use gets assigned to who makes best use of it. Anything else, gets sold and split equally amongst everyone.

>> No.42703102


>Not Smite Heretic.

>> No.42703160

That's an inquisitor's job more than a paladin's

>> No.42703180

Well, example.
There is a warlock sceptor, a spellbook, headband of int, darkvision goggles, and cloak of resistance in the loot.
Warlock gets the sceptor, no prob.
Wizard gets the spellbook, no prob.
Then the wizard says he should get the headband, too. Not really an issue.
Then he says he should get the goggles, too. Er, what, dude?
And he should get the cloak, because his saves are shitty. Dude, u wot?
This is a party of 6 right now, and the loot is mostly knickknack magic items and potions. The wizard is making a grab for a considerable percentage of the total value of the loot, maybe 45%, and he isn't the only one.

>> No.42703199

Tell him no? If there's 5 of you and 1 of him the odds aren't in his favor. If he insist, part ways and refuse to work with him again.

>> No.42703211


Smite Heathen?

>> No.42703239

Seriously, which of you mary sue fucks is this?

>> No.42703241

I prefer Smite Nonbeliever.

>> No.42703249


>> No.42703278


>I have this player who is playing a part umbral dragon, spider, daemon, construct who worships Urgothoa and is her child. He is now a lich and a cult where his followers sacrifice powerful souls to his phylactery of the void so the player can gain power.

>> No.42703294

To wit, he has a reasonable claim.
He does have some of the worst overall saves in the group, and is the only one without darkvision.
However, there is the point that he is pushing for the most valuable gear, in a game that so far has been very sparse with equipment.
How would you resolve it in a constructive, peacable way? I'm thinking we vote on whether he gets the gear, but I also worry who is gonna be left out on their ass.

>> No.42703298

God, i tried watching hellsing

dont know how anyone whos not a teenager could

>> No.42703312

Don't take it so seriously?
Realize the star of the show is the police girl and her acclimating to her new unlife, and that Alucard is a force of nature, not a character, and how the world he is in warps whenever he is around?

>> No.42703325

Draw lots, and then go in order of the lots taking turns picking one item at a time until there's none left. After that, people can try and trade around on their own time.

>> No.42703338

Have him take up crafting and make gear for the rest of the team?

>> No.42703347

Hell, "Alucard 2 stronk, nerf now" is treated as a /plot point/, a rather driving plot point, which is a lot better than a lot of Hellsing's peers in anime treat that kinda thing.

>> No.42703366

He's using a prestige class called "war weaver" or something, and is level 9. Crafting is too little too late.
Besides, the 2 artificers didn't make it, one quit, the other got booted.

>> No.42703375

Usually what I do when I'm a player is suggest we give the items to whoever needs the item the most, or whoever could make the most use out of it, with need being a priority.

If it just so happens that one character has the worst saves overall, no dark vision, and an extremely low HP, and we find a treasure chest with a Cloak of Resistance, Goggles of Darkvision, and an item that increases your HP, I'd vote to give those items to that player. Only if there's another player in the group that could make better use of any of those items would I consider them for the items as well.

It feels like your DM is throwing the player a bone.

>> No.42703390

Then ask your DM to hand out gear that is more useful to the rest of the party. Not because optimization, but because it seems the DM is giving everything to the wizard.

>> No.42703398

This character just showed up, mid field.
The player was rolling a warlord before who died en route, and this wizard was his new character who finished the crawl.
That said, we have 2 guys in the group who have NO magic gear at all, and my guy has been given the magic plate because it was a storyline item.

>> No.42703412

I believed he rolled somewhat randomly for the gear, because some of the knick knacks NO ONE can really use, like a Robe of Bones.

>> No.42703449

So yeah, it feels like this bit of loot is intended for the Wizard by DM.

Take a step back for a bit, because I'm gonna say something I don't agree with under any circumstances except optimizing. This Wizard dude has issues that need to be dealt with, particularly his low saves and lack of Darkvision. I understand that the others don't have magic items, but their lack of magic items isn't as important as the Wizard's lack of passive stuff. If he wants his saves and vision to match up with the rest of the party, he has to burn spells, which means he has less to use to help out the party when the times comes.

>> No.42703467

Eh, those breasts are about two cup sizes too small.

>> No.42703536

No, anon, I do understand where you are coming from, because honestly, I do feel similarly.
This is a group, and keeping one guy down over greed means that a weak link has been forged.
I just dislike that what should have been an orderly distribution is so one sided because the new guy needs to be brought up to snuff, seemingly with a glut of items ready made for him, while other characters go without because reasons and luck of the draw.
Nay, anon, they CAN be 2 larger, but are alright just the way they are.

>> No.42703548

Anyone have a full PDF of the Dirty Tactics Toolbox? Looking for Feats and Talents to make my Unchained Rogue fluffier.

>> No.42703567

I really feel that your DM is handing out stuff specifically for this guy to, like you said, bring him up to the party standard. Did he not get starting gold based on his level or something?

>> No.42703588

Why is there a snow leopard in the desert?

>> No.42703614

I dunno, but 2 other party members are both lower level martial characters with no magic gear. I am at lvl 11, and my kit consists of a magic sword and my newfound magic armor.
A prestige'd lvl 9 wizard with shit like polymorph and enervation, I think, is FAR better off the rest of us sods.

>> No.42703626

Because gnomes. But look, it's not staying a desert for much longer, also thanks to gnomes.

>> No.42703663

Oh dear god, you're all different levels? Abandon hope.

>> No.42703680

Why wouldn't you just adjust the alignment compass?

>> No.42703683

Which skill unlocks are worthwhile, besides Heal? I'm looking at Diplomacy in particular and wondering if it would be worth it to take Signature Skill (Diplomacy).

>> No.42703720

Anon, this game has been going on since December.
Stop thinking everything is gloom because of a few sparse details.
Would it amaze you to hear that until the wizard, we had an entirely martial focused party made of initiators and 1/2 gishes?

>> No.42703777

Unequal exp is an awful idea pretty much no matter what.

>> No.42703787

So I want to play a character descended from a gold dragon who he believes is Mengkare and thinks he's perfect despite having obvious flaws. What bloodline using class is best for being a smug asshole?

>> No.42703799


>> No.42703829

A Ranger with Eldritch Heritage, obviously.

>> No.42703831

Considering that the new guys went from level 1 to 7 within a month playing time and the game is 65% roleplay, it's actually not a problem at all, and had not been at any point.
This is what I meant when I said screaming doom and gloom with a dearth of detail.

>> No.42704139

Yeah, was definitely considering it. Was also thinking bloodrager and going into dragon disciple. Might work for sorcerer too.

Wasn't thinking of this, seems interesting.

>> No.42704323

If the game is 66% roleplay and your DM is giving you horribly easy encounters (which he is, if the lower level players aren't having problems), why are the players complaining about who gets the magic items? It doesn't matter who gets them since everything is so braindead easy.

>> No.42704325

It's kinda that coupled with the complaints of party disparity I think.

>> No.42704343

Hey I need some help. I'm starting a campaign with some friends and I wanted to play cleric. Now my problem is that I reroller my stats like 5 times, and every damn time I got 1 score in the 5-7 range. Now I'm stuck with:

How the fuck do I deal with that 5 score? Which stat do I put it on so I gimp myself the least amount possible?

>> No.42704350

Question, does the Quick Snap counter require the initiator to take damage, or only to be hit by an attack? (Situation-enemy delivers non-damaging spell, in this case Sands of Time through touch attack)

>> No.42704355

Does a warlord have to choose a discipline or can he uses strikes stances and boosts from any of them so long as he learns them and readies them?

>> No.42704358


>> No.42704367

He can use learn maneuvers from any discipline he has access to, and readies them as he likes.

>> No.42704380

But then I can't use the "channel energy" at all? Or did I misinterpret this?

>> No.42704396

Does anyone have taken a look at the Inner Sea Races? I know that the early pdfs for subscribers are already out and I'd like to know if there are some new archetypes and feats, especially for planetouched races

>> No.42704424

Hey /pfg/, I had a DSP question.

I saw a ruling that said Zweihander Sentinel's count as having a shield for the purpose of receiving a 50% increase from Martial Power.

My question is: was this an isolated exception, or could similar logic be applied elsewhere? Specifically, do you think that the Zweihander Sentinel counts as using a shield for the purpose of the Shield Bearer trait? If not, do you think it would be a reasonable thing to ask a GM to houserule?

Here is a link to the Martial Power ruling: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=17749541&postcount=1062

And here is a link to Shield Bearer: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/race-traits/shield-bearer

>> No.42704524

>your DM is giving you horribly easy encounters
>lvl 11 warlord died in a crawl that 2 lvl 7 characters survived
Thanks for your assumptions, but that isn't the case. We've gotten by via smart play, good use of gear and forcing battles on our terms.
Except there was no complaint about either of those, just about magic gear and who should get what.

>> No.42704553

>Does anyone have taken a look at the Inner Sea Races?

There were two generals worth of content posted here about a week back, Schneider and the Young Blood of Paizo are consistently pumping out quality.

And some of the names we've seen there are working on Hell's Vengeance, which is entirely "new" guys with nary a JJ or Crystal to bother it.

>> No.42704576

It says nothing about interrupting the attack from completing, so yes, you would be hit and take the damage, then counterattack.

>> No.42704581

>lvl 11 warlord died in a crawl that 2 lvl 7 characters survived
All you're doing is reinforcing my point. Maybe the fights aren't easy, but you can tell that the DM is either going easy on the lower level characters or said Warlord fucked up bad.

Smart play only gets you so far anon. At the point where you are 4 levels behind, you are literally holding the rest of the party back. You DM is one of the most lenient I've heard of.

>> No.42704597

A lot of tables let you keep your 3 highest and reroll the others.

>> No.42704606

Abilities that are x+stat do not suffer from negative modifiers.
You would just have 3.

>> No.42704659

>Bloodrager into Dragon Disciple

Mah nigga, what combat style? You going for 2-handed weapons or are you going to embrace the dragon and go full RIP AND TEAR with natural weapons?

>> No.42704684

But doesn't this table mean that I cannot use Channel Energy since it is tied to Charisma which would be 5?

>> No.42704695

Channel Energy is not a spell.

>> No.42704716

>Smart play only gets you so far anon
It actually got use very far, in fact.
Use of concealment for miss chances, the lower level characters not rushing out to get swarmed, a shitton of alchemical items, support maneuvers/stances/etc and the fact that most of our greater foes were undead of some sort meant the paladin could wreck face, sometimes carrying the entire team against shit like giant skeleton nagas and colossal+ size centipedes.
An example of what we were facing?
The end roll of the crawl, we faced 4 boneclaws
2 large zombie dragons, 3 unidentified tentacle monsters, led by a human cleric necromancer.
Before that, some 20 ghouls with boneclaws mixed in.
If you feel that is an example of the DM "taking it easy on us", well, what is your example of him not?

>> No.42704723

Ahhhhh, okay. Thank you for clearing it up for me.

>> No.42704732

Incorrect. If the ability is "3 + Charisma bonus" then you take no penalty for having negative Charisma. Channel is "3 + Charisma modifier". If your modifier is negative, you'll have less than three uses. A 5 in Cha would indeed make you unable to channel at all.

>> No.42704754

>non Pathfinder enemies
Throw everything out the window, there's no way to properly quantify that.

>> No.42704765

>having new guys start at level 1 when everyone else is at mid-levels
>not a problem

I mean sure, if you never fight anything more dangerous than a housecat, but if the GM was actually trying to CHALLENGE the party, you'd be pretty much guaranteed to end up with dead PCs.

>> No.42704771


This. Channel is utterly hopeless if you have 5 CHA.

>> No.42704806

Is a cleric without the Channel Energy ability basically useless?

>> No.42704811

does gm reinforce carrying capacity?
if no, strength

>> No.42704827

Not at all. It just means you don't have area heals and undead damage until you get cure mass.

>> No.42704838

>ever useless

You could have all stats except wisdom below 10 and you STILL wouldn't be useless.

>> No.42704841

Because PF and 3.5 are so different in enemy design, right?
Thus far, there has been a mix of both.
>if you never fight
Anon, we went 2 real life MONTHS of playing with no combat. I can't seem to stress the roleplay part enough. I know that most people are used to crawl after crawl, but in this game, they are the exception, not the norm. I'd say a fifth of the game has been combat, with the rest the party dealing with politics in the city we are in, and assisting local forces in policing the town.

>> No.42704844

Honestly, nobody gives a shit. Healing while in combat is a bad idea regardless, and wands of Cure Light Wounds are cheap and easy substitutes for all forms of healing.

>> No.42704854


No, channel can certainly be a nice boon though at times. It helps to heal the party in an aoe, and if you're against undead it can be very nice as well. But if you're not fighting any undead, then it serves little purpose beyond an aoe heal after combat.

>> No.42704877

>no combat

Then what are you doing playing Pathfinder? There are numerous better RP based systems to use.

>> No.42704883

It's not optimal but you are far from useless, considering your 18 in WIS

>> No.42704898

That's correct. Pathfinder is not 3.5. If you introduce a 3.5 enemy into Pathfinder, you have a general idea of how strong that enemy might be, but you have no real way to know for certain.

>> No.42704902

Thank you guys for the honest answers. I think I'll try to go with 5 in charisma then.

>> No.42704959


What you should really do is ask your DM to let you reroll that 5, because that is simply not good at all. You are going to further have to basically play your character off as either A, absolutely hideous or B, a complete social retard and asshole. The kind of person to casually say something extremely offensive and then go "what'd I do?"

>> No.42704986

>The kind of person to casually say something extremely offensive and then go "what'd I do?"
Granted, that sounds like a pretty good idea if it wouldn't be guaranteed to get the party in trouble all the time.

>> No.42705000

you can also roleplay it as an autist
or your typical 4chan shitposter

>> No.42705019

Uh, because we are playing pathfinder?
This game is proof in pudding that the system does not make the roleplay, unless you mean having a built in social combat system.
I mean, I spent weeks in game stumping for money from the city council to build houses outside the city walls to capitalize on local farmer and first response capacity.
The paladin went out and singlehandedly reformed and expanded the police force.
We have an orc whose life goal is to reform the orc race and make them respectable, and has spent his time strongarming every orc and half orc he can find under their banner, and making them do work for the city, such as building the aforementioned houses, or sparring with the police recruits.
I'd give you credit if the CR ratings in BOTH systems wasn't fucked beyond repair. What do I know about the boneclaws? They have 20-30' of reach, swing twice, hit like like trucks on top of multiple AoOs, and can take a serious beating before going down.
Also, are intelligent. In practical terms, if you can't see something's numbers/abilities and figure out how dangerous it is, I don't know you expect to run a game. The only thing my DM hasn't really done is throw creatures with a lot of magic at us, and ghosts, even tho I was expecting a ghost for a while now, and bought ghost salt just in case, or when I figured we were gonna fight a shitton of ghouls and bought shard gel, carrion bait and marbles.
>that smart thinking again

>> No.42705027

Bitch, if you go for rolling in the first place(AND get multiple rerolls!) you have no right to complain about a single low ability score. If you want no scores below 10, just abstain from games where you can't use point-buy.

>> No.42705041

I want to marry a Ghoran

>> No.42705053

I rerolled the ability scores so many times already, and got that sweet sweet 18 score once that I decided with my DM that it would be unfair to keep rerolling the stat over and over.
>or your typical 4chan shitposter
That's the plan.

>> No.42705075

Re-fucking-minder that Distant Shores is coming with a Frasier-written matriarchal South Garundi nation, populated by a Frasier-designed race, and with a Frasier-made deity to give the strong black womyn rulers a literal Mandate of Heaven.

>> No.42705101


Good thing it's in South Garund and thus irrelevant to absolutely everyone.

>> No.42705108

Are you mad about pretend countries in a pretend setting to be used in a game of pretend?
You care about a single country in an entire world of countries because it's pretend existence offends your real life sensibilities?

>> No.42705148


>South Garund

People still go there?

>> No.42705172

>ghost salt
Dude, Weapon Blanch isn't practical in terms of use. You have to heat it over a fire for a full round, and even then, it only lasts until the first successful attack.
>shard gel
Literally worthless. 1d4 damage and caltrops in the squares around it.
DC10 or fall prone. Honestly wouldn't be bad if a single bag didn't only cover a single square, but the DC is still too low to be meaningful against anything close to the party's power
>carrion bait
That's not a thing that exists in Pathfinder, from what I can tell, but it doesn't matter anyway, since ghouls are very smart for undead.
Ghouls are CR1, man. They are literally just trash. The party would be better off just fighting normally rather than setting up your cute little tricks around the battlefield which are unlikely to work anyway.
>smart thinking
You're not smart, you're actually quite stupid. Don't pat yourself on the back for being smart because your DM is incompetent.

>> No.42705288

You've just proven you know little of Pathfinder, fuccboi, so let me educate you.
>Weapon Blanch can be applied to 15 arrows per use, and remains until used
>Shard gel covers 6 squares in a single use, and any hit from a caltrop IMMEDIATELY stops a charging creature
>marbles come into play whenever creature moves or attacks in the square they are in, multiple attacks equal multiple chances to fall prone
>doesn't know what carrion bait is
Learn something, anon, shit exists in the books besides magic gear.
>Ghouls are CR1
>ghouls paralyze on hit, on top of ghoul fever
>can take a player out of the battle in a single blow
>also were advanced HD, having 27 hp each, rather than the standard 13
Keep talking, anon, when you've outed yourself for not actually playing the game, just talking about it on /tg/.

>> No.42705376

>The only thing my DM hasn't really done is throw creatures with a lot of magic at us, and ghosts
Then you're not actually playing up to the standard for CR, since the game assumes you're using magical enemies against the party.
>ghouls paralyze on hit, on top of ghoul fever
>can take a player out of the battle in a single blow
>also were advanced HD, having 27 hp each, rather than the standard 13
Was this still at level 7 or above? You have to be literally incompetent if you're having trouble with ghouls at that point. Shadows and Ghosts? Yeah, those are dangerous undead to go against. But Ghouls?

You can try arguing anon, but either your party is VERY bad, or your GM is VERY willing to pull punches.

>> No.42705809

So /pfg/, I want to have a backup plan if my druid dies and I was thinking of a gladiator. Now, I know that there is a specific class, but I want my gladiator to use a trident and a net so I'm thinking of going human warrior and take the profinciecy for nets at first level.

I was thinking:

1st level feats:
two weapon fighting
net proficiency
weapon focus trident

2nd level
intimidating prowess

3rd level
dazzling display

4rd level:
weapon specialization trident

and then other stuff.

I am not really sure about dazzling display tho. Is a mass intimidate check worth a full-round action?

>> No.42705816


>Kirito 2 stronk, unnerfable
>Ah, well, let's keep fighting him one-on-one in the video games he's honed an autistic level of perfection in, SOMETHING will work. Maybe. Eventually.

>Ichigo 2 stronk, nerfs don't stick to him
>A one on one swordfight against him? Great idea! I'll even forget to use my omnipotent game-breaking faggot power for this fight and this fight only!

>Alucard 2 stronk, nerf now
>Can't get nerfed?
>Fuck it, I'm going to dedicate the next few decades of my life to unlocking the science of vampirism, advanced robotics, and schrodinger's cat, slaughter the population of London, and buttfuck reality with a ritual suicide JUST to show that fucker's still mortal.
>This is my duty as a human.

>> No.42706132

Not him, but you are not even right...
>Weapon Blanch can be applied to 15 arrows per use, and remains until used
10 arrows, is annoyingly expensive, and only useful for ranged attacks. Since you have to focus on a single combat style to be effective you must all be archers. Which is fine since the game is basically Bows & Magic.
>Shard gel covers 6 squares in a single use, and any hit from a caltrop IMMEDIATELY stops a charging creature
9 squares, and caltrops never hit anything (BAB +0 vs creature AC+2). It's a waste of an action that prolongs combat without actually saving you from anything. They (and shard gel) are worse than basically any other action you can take.
>marbles come into play whenever creature moves or attacks in the square they are in, multiple attacks equal multiple chances to fall prone
That's not how marbles work at all, it's a one time reflex save or fall entering the square. Moving slowly prevents the need for a reflex save at all.
>doesn't know what carrion bait is
Basically only effective on CR1 creatures.
>Learn something, anon, shit exists in the books besides magic gear.
The vast majority or all equipment in pathfinder is useless.

>Ghouls are CR1
>ghouls paralyze on hit, on top of ghoul fever
>can take a player out of the battle in a single blow
>also were advanced HD, having 27 hp each, rather than the standard 13
They might as well be minions. They have to roll like a 7 to hit you, and then you have to roll under a 6 to be affected at level 7.

>> No.42706159

Who's Kirito?

>> No.42706175

that's a lot of feats for something not especially powerful, but cool flavour nonetheless

>> No.42706192

Anyone got any good gunslinger art?

>> No.42706208

Motherfuckers, I have had more played killed in low level games by Ghouls than anything else!

>> No.42706223

>Level 7 and 11 players
>Low level
Stay mad.

>> No.42706287


Sword Art Online's protagonist, and the poster child for OP plz nerf main characters everywhere.

>> No.42706302


Ghouls fuck shit up. I always run ghouls as compulsive coup-de-gracers, because literally their only motive is to eat - and if you're helpless in front of them, they'll rip your throat out.

>> No.42706353

Not sure although either is fine.

>> No.42706376

Aren't ghouls rape machines at low levels.

>> No.42706391


They can get pretty nasty if you don't have a divine character on hand to fuck 'em up.

Even for characters of about level 6 or so, a big group of ghouls could get troubling at times because while it was pretty easy to down them with a serious attack they have three attacks and they only need to hit you once to have a chance at paralyzing you.

>> No.42706408

yeah I am not looking for min maxing, but I still don't want to feel useless.
My party, assuming my druid departure, is made of a monk, a badly built cleric and a sorcerer. I figured that I can still be as good as the monk, if not better.

>> No.42707498

New thread where?

>> No.42707511

Never, we finally finished /pfg/.

>> No.42707546


>> No.42707555

How do swarms work
I've always been confused by them

>> No.42707615

>swarm moves into enemy space
>automatically deals damage
That's literally it.

>> No.42707651

Hey, say I have this religious order in a civilization that despises Magic but loves Psionics. What mixture of classes would be best for the clergy of this civilization?

And, if you must know, the religion is based loosely off of Hindu/Almsivi.

>> No.42707656

New thread:

>> No.42707749

How do you hurt them

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