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/tg/ - Traditional Games


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42532213 No.42532213 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Monks vs rogues /tg/

Opinions on them? Nothing in particular. Just curious

>> No.42532256
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42532256

I prefer Rogues, assuming we're talking about martial-artsy monks and not the European bible-thumping type.

I dunno, martial-artsy monks always feel out of place in my games. I know every culture in the world had martial traditions, including unarmed combat... but somehow monks always feel like retarded weeaboo anime shit to me.

>> No.42532270

>>42532256
Always the martial arty monks. The cleric friar tuck thing is just not as fun

>> No.42532289

Someone mentioned a western monk concept based around the four humours in place of the balances of ki on here a while back.

Kinda itching to play him as a sorta demicleric, that would be fun as fuck.

But then I'm also thinking of mixing a rogue and a ranger/druid to create a Rat Burglar which would also be fun as fuck.

Basically, any archetype is what you make of it.

>> No.42532309

>>42532289
Sounds like the Diablo 3 monk, which is all martial arts but they are Russian and worship the angels and use holy powers

>> No.42533020

I like them both, I like the utilities of rogues and the shady getup.

Monks I prefer more though because I like to see toned men perform awesome stunts.

No homosex.

>> No.42533242

>>42532213
rogues do TWF better, monks are shit at combat and noncombat, end of story.

>> No.42533285

>>42532270
It's spelled Frere Toque

Just trust me on this one, I speak French as my first language and I'm surprised how that character's name was so bastardized in English, no offense

Frere in French means brother.
Brother Toque if you will

>> No.42533315
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42533315

>>42533020
>toned men practicing martial arts
AWAKEN MY MASTERS!

>> No.42533328
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42533328

>>42532213
Monks as presented don't typically fit the standard D&D realms of Europe but with shitty monster races. I will always have a soft-spot for the brawler who turns aside steel with skill and violence though, but it never really fits into any setting unless the setting is tailored to them. Rogues are great though, but that's because I love traps, locks and actual dungeoneering. Tying ropes and abseiling down a ruined shaft in an underground fort looking for lost riches.

It's all about what you want, and which one isn't going to shaft my verisimilitude.

>> No.42533513

>>42532213
if you're playing western fantasy, eastern monks don't really fit in.
no matter the mechanics or the system, that sort of philosophical study is left to alchemists and wizards in the west.
in an eastern campaign, with a system that rewards expressing yourself thru your fists, they're great, but then rogues (and everybody really) becomes a monk subclass of sorts.

>> No.42533530

Rogue is better in every way than monk.
>Almost always has at least 3 daggers hidden on their person
>is useful in combat
>Is useful out of combat
>Fits the setting.

>> No.42533535
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42533535

A rogue feels like something every party needs, whether they like it or not. The monk on the other hand is the weeb in the corner that wants to cosplay as goku.

Unless it's a wrestle monk. Always choose wrestle monk.

>> No.42533571 [DELETED] 
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>>42533530
Depends on the setting. In certain versions of Dungeons and Derpery, they're essentially inferior wizzards.

Then again, in that game Wizzards could do literally EVERYTHING better than any other class.

>> No.42533602

>>42533571
>Everything better than any other class
Only if hey prepared the correct spells and work off of a 5 minute adventure day.

>> No.42533718

>>42532256
>monks always feel like retarded weeaboo anime shit to me
So don't make them that. You have total control over your own game.

>> No.42533750 [DELETED] 

>>42533285
Kill yourself frenchie. The world needs to be purged of the shit clogging the gene pool aka the French race.

>> No.42533760
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42533760

>>42533718
Except that's literally what the entire concept behind their character is. "Making them something else" is like saying wizards are now a class that uses swords and bows and doesn't have magic at all.

Trying to hard to make something new just comes off as "LOOK HOW UNIQUE AND SPECIAL AND DIFFERENT MY IDEAS ARE! EVEN IF THEY'RE AWFUL!"

>> No.42533783 [SPOILER] 
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>>42533535
>>42533535
>wrestle monk

If you want to wrestle and you play pathfinder, go alchemist.

>ragechemist
>barbarian multiclass
>enlarge person extract
>16 base strength becomes 28
>plus size bonus
>plus whatever feats youre throwing in there
>level 3

Youre also so godamn angry its completely excusable and even encouraged to yell like an autist and quote hulk hogan/macho man

Bonus points for taking intimidating prowess so youre practically guaranteed to make everyone within 30ft of you spontaneously combust from your sheer rage

>mon visage quand

>> No.42533819

>>42533760
>Trying to hard to make something new
You call the monk a pugilist. Done.

>> No.42533832

I'm super biased because the first DnD character I ever made was a monk. In hindsight it kind of sucked, because it didn't fit the actual lore of a monk at all (and the creator, me, was a little kid). But it was so much fun.

It was just a magical session when I got to kill my first imaginary creature with dice. Natural twenty kick to the face. Broke his neck, he stumbled backwards, broke his leg, fell into water, drowned. There's no such thing as overkill.

>> No.42533833

>>42533760
Monk as a class is to Barbarian what Rogue is to fighter. It's a precision fighter against the pure muscle.

>> No.42533865

>>42533783
I support this.

>> No.42533890
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42533890

>>42533783
Bane?

>> No.42533894

>>42532213
I want to like monks. I want to treat them like martial wizards, people who became straight up magical but instead of spellcasting learned to basically metabolize magic and develop supernatural powers in a different manner. I try to house rule them to not suck when they do (I'm looking at you, four elements monk) and promote the idea of them being more like druids in mentality, but focusing on the inner self and the magic of the spirit instead of focusing on nature and the various spirits thereof.

However, every player I've had who ran monk has basically thought they'd be fucking goku or something, tacked on something vaguely asian (usually japanese, big surprise) to their theme and then shuffled about not participating unless there was a fight and then haphazardly trying to punch things while forgetting about half their class abilities.

Meanwhile, I rarely if ever have to houserule thief/rogue classes, the players I have who play them are active, communicate openly and participate out of battle. Maybe it's anecdotal or biased or whatever for me to base my view of the classes by personal experience, but I don't care. It's really thrown me off the idea of monks and my next campaign won't feature any.

>> No.42533930
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42533930

>>42533865
>>42533890
>>42533865
>>42533890
Bonus points, take combine extract and bull strength.

Now its 32 strength.


For reference, at level four you have the same strength as a tyrannosaurus fucking rex.

>> No.42533935

>>42533930
I don't have to sacrifice a sock to become this HUGE, do I?

>> No.42533954

>>42533930
You realize this calls absolutely for a bandana/hat and groovy facial hair?

As well as eating and advertising dried meat and calling people 'brother' or saying "HOOOOOOOH YEEEEEEAAH"

>> No.42534005
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>>42533894
Thief/Rogue classes are awesome, and the people that play them are usually the players that actually WANT to roleplay and enjoy coming up with creative/clever solutions to problems (which the Rogue's skills allow for without being as game-breakingly effortless as magic).

Disguise is fun, stealing things is fun, avoiding fights with some clever words (or starting them with shit-talking) is fun... everything about Rogues is fun, more fun than monks... even IN and Asian-inspired setting.

>> No.42534028
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42534028

>>42533935
Just the fun of anyone else pretending to be a martial around you

then again, this build should be used for grappling so you can let them have their fun

>> No.42534873
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42534873

>>42534005
Agreed. Punching things is cool and all, but finding creative solutions to your problems is more interesting.

>> No.42534917

>>42534873
I know where that image is from >__>

And I also know the artist didn't want it publicly posted yet <__<

>> No.42535151

>>42534873
>implying monks are restricted to punching things
>implying monk can't apply their fuckawesome dex creatively

>> No.42535157
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42535157

>>42534917
It's called an imageboard for a reason fag. Don't degrade yourself with emoticons.

>> No.42535277

>>42532213
Monk, if for no other reason than it's pretty amazing how mad some get when their fantasy kitchen sink has the occasional eastern theme.

>> No.42535333
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42535333

>>42533894
>experience bad players
>blame the class
>recognize this but brush it off

>> No.42535425

>>42533285
>Frere in French means brother.
Actually, it means friar.

>> No.42535535

>>42535277
I play this class whenever I can. Mostly because my sense of fantasy isn't just limited to European, which is not and should not be considered "the default." But in recent years, the vitriol that spills towards anything Asian in a fantasy game makes me feel similar, and I often want to play a monk to see how many people are bold enough to fault me at the table for liking Asian fantasy motifs without shame.

I mean, half my family is Chinese. I think it's not unreasonable for me to like Chinese fantasy. I often wonder whether they're just racist, but I won't assume. That being said, Western pen and papers do pugilist characters terribly, so it's really just me settling for whatever I can take. I play rogue just as often.

>> No.42535564

>>42532256
Not all fantasy is Tolkein.

>> No.42535775

>>42532256

> martial-artsy monks always feel out of place in my games.

I'm playing a monk at the moment, and he fits the forgotten realms setting just fine. That said, the setting was forgotten realms bait-and-switched into planescape. Monks are all but non-existent in his home setting, but planescape dumped a couple of Githzerai into Cormyr, and that's where he got his training from

>> No.42535800

>>42533328
The baitest

>> No.42535837

>Monks don't fit in D&D
Ayyy lmao, it's like neither of you know what D&D is about

Spoiler: Is not European fantasy

>> No.42535859

>>42535425
No, it actually means brother.

>> No.42535868

>>42535775
It's as simple as saying "dude is a foreigner, or trained by foreigners." Yet some people are scandalized by the idea that there's something outside of their pure white fantasy Europe. It's totally reasonable to assume there are other nations and continents with other cultures, assuming it's not a canon D&D setting in which all the continents are accounted for. (And even then there often are monks canonically.)

>> No.42535915

>>42535868
Funny thing, is not even foreigner or trained by foreigners, monk's monasteries are everyfuckingwhere since a fucking long time ago, it's like bitching about pasta and rice being out of place today.

>> No.42535977

>>42535800
What?

>> No.42536016

>>42532213
I love both.

>> No.42536048

had tones of fun as a monk before, but if i'm honest rouge is where my heart is at.
just behind alchemist.

>> No.42536072

>>42535915
There's a distinction between beer-brewing, book-copying Christian monks and the shaolin-inspired kung-fu monks of D&D though.

That said, I'd totally play a badass European-style hard-drinking monk who fights with a quaterstaff, but I do think the other guy's right that in general, players should just make their monk PCs foreign to the setting and problem solved.

>> No.42536103
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42536103

BARBARIAAAAAN

>> No.42536240

>>42536072
That has nothing to do with what I said, dragon punching, ki blasting, quivering palming monk's monasteries are everyfuckingwhere since a fucking long time ago, you're misreading my post on purpose.

In "your" setting this might not be true, sure, but in absolutely every fucking official D&D setting punching unarmored monks are a thing since pretty much forever.

>> No.42536254
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>>42536072
Yeah, and fighters don't exist in D&D

>> No.42536287
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>>42533535

>tfw when you will never play a nihilist-monk-wrestler based on Randy Savage and espousing will to power

NOTHING MEANS NOTHING

NOTHING MEANS NOTHING

UNJUSTIFIABLY NOT IN A POSITION I'D RATHER NOT BE IN

BUT THE CREAM

RISES TO THE TOP OH YEAH

https://youtu.be/1wYoWdprfD0

>> No.42536503
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42536503

>>42536287
Whats stopping you?

>> No.42538322

>>42534917

Because showing people a sketch of an effective clone of Zelda/Sheik is just going to ruin everything for them.

>> No.42538354

>>42535859
>>42533285

It's not French folklore, you putz. It's Friar Tuck.

>> No.42540785

>>42532256
Yeah, and I'm certain the guy shooting out beams of energy out of his hands, riding a giant cat, and using magic to transform- I mean buff himself isn't weaboo at all.

>> No.42540812

>>42532213

Ninja < Ikko Ikki.

>> No.42540867

>>42532213
I enjoy monks better, if only because there's something badass about using the pure power of muscle, in combination with inner power in order to do incredible feats, without the use of magic.

Yeah, yeah weaboo, whatever. It's fun, and it's hardly the weirdest thing considering magic exists.

>> No.42541131

>>42533285
This is technically correct, the word "friar" actually comes from the French word frere.

However, the word "friar" dates back to Middle English you fucking stupid frank

>> No.42541240

>>42541131
>Middle English
You mean that bastardized Anglo-Norman Saxon inspired proto-French?

>> No.42541328
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42541328

>>42532213
Rogue
Thief
Specialist
Padfoot
Acrobat
Bandit
Assassin
Swashbuckler
Burglar
Pickpocket
Acquisitions expert
Freelance Security Analyst

>> No.42541394
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42541394

>>42541240
Neither French nor British, so I'm perfect to contain the buttmad coming from both sides.

Clemenceau's "badly pronounced French" didn't happen until after the Hundred Years War. Prior to it Middle English (ie. the Anglo-Saxon language) and French were strictly separated: the peasants spoke Saxon, the nobility spoke French. Richard the Lionheart for example spoke two separate dialects of medieval French (langue d'oil and langue d'oc) as well as Latin but no Saxon.

The reason why frere and friar are so similar is probably because they have a common root in the latin frater, with the french word sticking closer to the ambiguous latin meaning while friar only adopted its religious connotation without the familial one.

>> No.42541587

>>42541394
I like you.

>> No.42541673

>>42532213
I love both. My biggest problem in D&D is to NOT act like a rogue. I was a bit kleptomaniac before and if I'm thrown in a fantasy world I just can't stop myself I want to be the dickass thief.
I also love monks a lot because I like unarmored figther, transcending limitations by sheer will and all that. And I like mythological heroes or litterature heroes. You can't really play characters that do amazing things with their body in D&D if you don't play monk and that's a shame

>> No.42541930

>>42532213
>not running a taekwando monk in 2.5
What else are you doing wrong, /tg/?

>> No.42543668
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42543668

>>42532213
Depends really. Rogues I feel are pretty cool and they're usually my go-to for when I want to play something different (I usually play Fighters or Paladins).

The main reason I would play a monk is because I like Jedi. The problem is though is that Jedi don't always fit that well with a setting, and honestly you can still get that vibe from a paladin while still meshing much better. As some people have pointed out monks can wind up feeling really out of place in most games.

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