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/tg/ - Traditional Games


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42194289 No.42194289 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

>Once drawn into a blade, the steel is heated to a cherry red glow and quenched, or lowered into a liquid to rapidly cool it, establishing martensite crystals within it, giving it hardness so it can take an edge.

Would the type liquid the blade is quenched in affect the end product? Maybe special liquids impart special properties to the blade?

>> No.42194383

>>42194289
>Maybe special liquids impart special properties to the blade?

If you dip the sword in sprite to quench it, it will only taste like sprite before you clean the thing proper.

>> No.42194435

I know some use oil, though not why.

I have this itching in my brain I can't rightly recall, something about Greeks quenching with different stuff to do something.

>> No.42194437

Quench the blade in the blood of your enemies to give it an unending thirst for murder.

>> No.42194446

In the real world? Probably not.
In a fantasy world, with magic liquids or the blood of dragons or something? Totally, sounds like a cool idea.

>> No.42194494

>>42194435
Could be how fast heat is transferred form the metal into the liquid.

>> No.42194510

>The blacksmith's daughter accidentally quenches the blade with her piss

wat happen

>> No.42194607

>>42194289
Oil and water do have (very minor) diferences in the end result.

Now if it was fantasy, then fuck yeah. Quenching in fire oil could be an integral part of forging a +1 Flaming Blade, or the shed blood of angels for a +2 Unholy Dagger.

>> No.42194619

>>42194510
We kick you from the group.

>> No.42194621

>>42194289
I can't speak to any special properties, given that I've never worked with magic blades, but the liquid you use for a quench absolutely affects the end product. Different liquids have different thermal properties, changing how the steel cools. Fresh water makes for an inconsistent quench, since bubble formation as the water heats up interferes with heat transfer, leading to soft spots. Salt water doesn't have this problem, but you have to be careful about metal corrosion. Oil cools the steel slowly, making for a softer but less brittle blade. Glycol polymers can get really fine control over the tempering by adjusting the solution, but require constant attention. I know some cutlers have tried tempering with things like wine or lamb's blood or whatever, but I've never worked with those.

>> No.42194625 [DELETED] 

>>42194289
>>42194446
The different liquids harden the steel at different rates. Oil will harden the steel slower than water, and clay is slower still. Brine and water are the fastest.
The liquid you use to quench it depends on what kind of steel your using, and what you want it to do.

>> No.42194665

>>42194510
How does one -accidentally- just quench a blade with their piss?

>> No.42194686

>>42194621
Don't you sometimes also quench the edge separately from the rest of a blade?
I also read about some using clay to quench.

>> No.42194687

>>42194665

She lowered the blade into the wrong receptacle.

>> No.42194701
File: 1.03 MB, 2087x1500, ALTRA86_Steel_slab_mill_Pic1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42194701

>>42194383
>Would the type liquid the blade is quenched in affect the end product?

Yes.

Quenchants have various speeds - amounts of thermal reduction per second. they're not always obvious.

liquid nitrogen, for instance, is quite capable of freezing something far, far below the freezing point of water - but its actually really shit for quenching, as it boils, forming a jacket of gas around the metal - so it cools the metal very slowly.

Water cools rapidly, salt-water (brine) cools a little slower. Oil cools slower still.

Technically, molten, liquid lead can be used for a quench, though I've never seen it done. Apparently it was used by Wilkinson in the 19th C.

a lot of the mythology of swordmaking revolves around the heat-treat and quench. One manuscript on the subject calls for the urine of a red-headed virgin boy. Another calls for the urine of a goat that's caged and fed fennel for 7 days before its piss is collected.

Historically, whale oil was used.

Metallurgically, a faster quench is more likely to create a hard steel, but it risks it breaking the blade - thermal shock can cause cracks to propagate through the metal.

>> No.42194710

>>42194665
Ever gotten really, REALLY drunk in a forge before?

>> No.42194711

>>42194665
Really had to go chamber pot too small so use unused barrel.
repeat a few times.
sword dunked in barrel of piss
everyone feels dirty afterwards

>> No.42194727

>>42194665
You took a piss while you were working, and couldn't leave the blades unattended, and when you're about to move one to quench it, you drop it into your piss puddle.
(Ideally you already had a small hole so that the urine didn't get EVERYwhere.

>> No.42194737

>>42194710
Once. Never again.

>> No.42194745

>>42194665
When she was quenching the blade she by accident used the piss bucket to do it.

>> No.42194747

>>42194686
clay is simply an insulation layer, so that the covered area is cooled slower. the same thing can be done in a few ways.

>> No.42194759
File: 106 KB, 601x676, 2-Isothermal-–-Transformation-Diagram-for-a-1080-Eutectoid-Steel.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42194759

>>42194435
>I know some use oil, though not why.
Oils allows for a faster cooling rates of the metal since oils can reach higher temperatures before boiling. Brine solutions are also sometimes used for similar reasons. The rate at which the metal is cooled partly determines the microstructure of the metal. Rapid cooling is needed for the austinite to martensite transformation to occur. See pic for the time-temperature transformation plot of 1080 steel.

An a side note, EXTREMELY fast cooling of some metals allow for amorphous phases which have some enhanced properties such as higher hardness and elasticity than typically possible with metals. The downsides include low temperature stability, lower toughness (the energy required to fracture), and the parts typically having to be of certain shapes to allow of the rapid cooling rates. For example the first amorphous metals were formed by pouring the metal onto spinning metal cooling drums to form ribbons of the amorphous metal.

>> No.42194790

piss, particularly women's piss, was collected for use as a mordant in dying of fabrics from prehistory. its not entirely impossible to say that it was quenched in the wrong barrel.

>> No.42194795

the quenching liquid just determines the speed at which the blade cools, while it is true that quenching in oil will add some carbon to the blade, the most this could penetrate is about 1mm, and it's not a sufficient amount of carbon to really effect hardness. 95% of the work done to make a blade is done well before you quench.

>> No.42194805

>>42194621
>Oils cools the steel slowly

>>42194759
>Oils allows for a faster cooling rates

So which one is it? I'm confused.

>> No.42194834

>>42194701
>Technically, molten, liquid lead can be used for a quench, though I've never seen it done. Apparently it was used by Wilkinson in the 19th C.
Must know more about this.

>> No.42194887

>>42194494

This, kinda, a bit more complex than that, but in the most basic sense, this.

Oh KM, we beseech you, explain the mystery of quenching!

>> No.42194892

>>42194621
>lamb's blood

Sounds like something an evil warlord would do.

>> No.42194930

>>42194805
Im >>42194759 and it appears I remembered the quenching rates backwards. Oil is slower than brine is slower than water.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quenching

For more information.

>> No.42194958

>>42194892
More like a cleric or druid. Evil warlord use baby blood.

>> No.42195026

>>42194834
I would assume it allows for a fast quench but limits the minimum temperature of the quench to the temperature of the molten lead it kept at which can be anywhere from 327C to 1749C.

>> No.42195043

>>42194701
Different anon here, expanding upon this;

Which liquid is most suitable for quenching depends on the type of steel.

Steel gains higher strenght from higher concentrations of carbon and other such impurities in the metal lattice. These foreign elements interfere with the way the metal atoms can slide around the lattice, thereby making it stronger and harder. Carbon is the most common of such introduced impurities.

In short, low-carbon steels can be quenched in water, medium carbon steels in various oils and some of the highest carbon steels can even be quenched by blowing cool air over it, if the part isn't too thick.

Generally, parts that need to be hardened are medium carbon steels, so oil is most commonly used. Some precision tools can be made of very hard high carbon steel to prevent both wear and simple elasticity from influencing measurements and processes. These tools are to be treated with care because the harder a steel is, the more fragile to shock it becomes (you can break some steel parts and tools of this sort simply by dropping them).

>> No.42195093

>>42194510
So that's what that smells like.

>> No.42195120

>>42194958
Good point.

>> No.42195246

>>42194701
>>42194834
>liquid lead can be used for a quench
The only somewhat recent appliance I know for this method was to very tightly control the quenching process for armor-piercing caps and shell bodies for big naval guns.

They were quenched in steps, and with differnt cooling methods for different parts.

>> No.42195391

>>42194958
Nah, an evil god says just kidding as you nearly quench the blade in your son.

>> No.42195601
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42195601

>>42195246
that's one use of lead quenchant

Wilkinson Sword did it in the 19th and early 20th C, from what I've read, using a bessmer-processed steel, but as I say, I've seen very little data about it. I know a scary percentage of the world's best smiths, and I've never heard of anyone even trying to replicate the process. sadly, that's really the limit of what I know on the subject. I might ask one or two of them about it, but it'll be next time we all meet up. sorry I cant offer more than that.

>> No.42195805
File: 320 KB, 800x1031, bessmer.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42195805

>>42194747
>clay is simply an insulation layer, so that the covered area is cooled slower. the same thing can be done in a few ways.

The clay works in two ways.

The rough surface of it increase heat transfer to the water, IIRC by helping keep the steam bubbles (which insulate) small and quick to bugger off.

The body of the clay on the other hand insulates.

So a thin clay layer increases the effect of the quench, while a thick one insulates to keep things unhardened. With traditional Japanese sword making the edge gets a very thin coat, and the body a thick one.

>>42194759
>For example the first amorphous metals were formed by pouring the metal onto spinning metal cooling drums to form ribbons of the amorphous metal.
I did that once. It eventually turned out that the magnetic properties of amorphous metals can make those shoplifting alarms go off.

As for cooling rate, in addition to the transformation to martensite in general a rapid cooling will tend to produce a finer grain structure, which is almost always a very good thing. The downside is that the quicker the quench the greater the risk of thermal stress ripping the blade to pieces.

>>42194834
Molten lead is far too hot to turn "basic" steels to martensite, ie normal hardening, but going by the TTT diagram in >>42194759 it would allow you to make a bainitic steel. 19th century sounds a bit early though. Maybe it was just for tempering or normalisation and someone got it mixed up with the quench.

>> No.42195849

I remember reading something about the sword being quenched in the body of a slaughtered calf/cow? Does this ring anyone's bells?

>> No.42196102

>>42195849
I mean, you can stick a hot sword into a bunch of different things. Most of them are probably not technologically significant, but I guess a lot of weapons-like objects get made more for ceremonial than functional uses, which also something I wish more people would keep in mind when reading weird shit or looking at some retarded weapons.

>> No.42196106

>>42195849
Some Germans in the 19th century made some shit up about quenching blades in slave's blood (and then immediately decapitating said slave with the freshly quenched blade) as the reason for Damascus Steel's quality and it's been reprinted and spread a lot since.

http://www.tf.uni-kiel.de/matwis/amat/iss/kap_8/advanced/t8_4_1.html

>> No.42196123
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42196123

>>42195043
Well...

Using iron, carbon and steel as the example, if we start adding an alloying element to a metal it, at least generally, makes it harder. If the added atoms are in a solid solution then we call it solution hardening. if the added stuff forms small particles within the metal, either on their own or of a mix of the alloying element and the base metal, then, hm, I think precipitation hardening was the technical term, so we'll sue it for now. In either case, the individual atoms or the particles present obstacles as "dislocations" try to move around in the metal, and dislocation movement is a major mechanism when a metal deforms, so it gets harder.

As we add carbon to iron, only a very minor amount will dissolve in it, while the rest forms iron carbide particles. So precipitation hardening is dominant.

Now quench hardening of steel works in a slightly different way. Now the base iron has the atoms stacked in a certain way. The smaller carbon atoms that are dissolved into it slip into the empty spaces left over. Iron carbide also has the atoms stacked a certain way, this time with the carbon atoms given proper places too. What we do when we quench harden is that we force the steel into an entirely different stacking of the atoms, which ends up being a stretched-out form of the one pure iron has, with the carbon jammed in here and there. This new stacking variant is a lot stronger than what we had before. While adding 0.8% of carbon to iron can increase the hardness from 146 Brinell to 174, quench hardening of that steel can then push it past 700. While one could consider that hardness increase to be at least in part due to solution hardening since all the carbon is now dissolved, the stretched out BCC stacking style certainly carries part of the blame as well here, and the role of the carbon is in many ways enabling that stacking much mroe than it is there to provide solution&precipitation hardening.

>> No.42196149

>>42194289
Really, only in the temper. Water works really well, but cools the metal just a bit more rapidly than is ideal. Oil is marginally better, and is theatric. Which was important to some smiths, before they were more common than one per five or ten towns. They turned rocks into swords and tools, shit was magical. They'll put your ancestor's bones into the crucible, so the great warrior spirit of your grandfather can aid you in battle. Then bind it to you alone by mixing your blood into the oils used to quench the blade and holy shit your new sword is on fire how cool is that?

>> No.42196188

>>42194701
This may be a stupid-ass question, but could one quench a blade in room-temperature mercury? What would this accomplish?

>> No.42196213

>>42196188

Lots of mercury fumes in the air as it boils is what I'm guessing.

>> No.42196219

>>42196188
Mercury poisoning probably.

>> No.42196281

>>42196188
1D20 SAN loss.

>> No.42196286

>>42196188
>This may be a stupid-ass question, but could one quench a blade in room-temperature mercury?
Sure could.

>What would this accomplish?
It's a good way to kill blacksmiths.

>> No.42196338
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42196338

>>42196188
My guess is that the mercury in contact with the sword would quickly boil way, and the boiling point of mercury is the temperature that the steel would be quenched to. This being 357°C, most steels won't turn martensitic.

If you're really lucky, and have a lot of mercury, then the mercury would be able to conduct away the heat quick enough that it won't boil, and the temperature the steel is quenched to end sup being a bit above room temp. This could allow for some very hard steel, but would also be an extremely harsh quench if it happened, and thus very likely to destroy the object.

>> No.42196547
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42196547

Okay, so instead of say a basin of whatever, what would happen if someone used like, a sizable block of ice?

>> No.42196615

>>42196547
My (uneducated) guess would be that the end result is similar to water quenching. Assuming you stab/plunge the entirety of the blade in an instant, you'd get a layer of water forming between the metal and the ice and then you're back to water quenching again.

>> No.42196625

>>42196547
Just stab the ice? WHAT COULD GO WRONG?

>> No.42196651

>>42196547
Your sword would be hard and brittle. May actually break during the quench. Never tried it that wrong, but throwing a fire pit rock in a cold creek makes the rock explode.

>> No.42196681

>>42196547
It would explode, killing you in a way that would mystify investigators for years.

>man found lying dead in a pool of water from apparent shrapnel wounds
>no shrapnel in his body
>broken sword lying next to him

>> No.42196693

>>42196651
On top of that, you're asking for shrinkage pipes due to uneven cooling. I'd be surprised if the blade didn't crack.

>> No.42196701

Unless the ice chunk has a perfectly blade-shaped slot in it then you're not going to manage much contact between blade and coolant. What little do touch might get a kinda severe quench (but if it's too little heat heat in the blade around might stop even that) while the rest just air-cools.

Now if you do have a suitable slot the blade will probably quickly melt away the ice in contact, and then boil off the water. That leaves our blade out of contact with the ice, dropping the cooling rate to "not enough". One great advantage of liquid water here is that it automatically replaces the water that boils off, ice can't do that.

Now if we somehow managed to keep pressing the blade into the ice to supply it with fresh coolant, or maybe if we just managed to supercool liquid water and quench in that, then the result will be an extremely harsh quench, likely to shatter most steel grades. With very specific shapes to quench, extremely good quality, and so on you might manage to make a very hard steel (with just decent percentage shattering), but tempering that down to being less brittle than window glass will remove most of that.

>> No.42196775

>>42194289
Supposing you're an evil cultist, could you quench a blade by thrusting it into the heart of a sacrificial victim restrained on your blasphemous altar?

>> No.42196797

>>42196775
It would have to be either a really big heart or a really small blade.

>> No.42196803

>>42196775
The steel at that point just isn't hard enough to pierce the body cleanly.

>> No.42196815

>>42196775
it'd warp as it goes in, especially if it hits bone

>> No.42196854

>>42196775
Bodily fluids are approximately salt water. But compared to quenching in a tub of that the bodily tissues prevent the free flow of liquid and steam, so the cooling rate would quickly drop as the locally available liquid boils off, leaving you with at best a blade which only has the outermost skin quenched. And as you must do final grinding after quenching, you'll probably end up grinding off that bit.

>> No.42196900

>>42196854
> so the cooling rate would quickly drop as the locally available liquid boils off

That's why you quench it in the heart of a still living victim, just keep pumping fresh liquid all over it.

>> No.42196935

>>42196803
I think molten steel would burn through someone. Though at that point, it'd probably not make for a very good edge and more a series of cursed lumps

>> No.42196937

>>42196775

You couldn't do a proper stab with an untempered blade

That's why you do your evil quenching in a cistern of blood

>> No.42196949
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42196949

Thank you for this unusually high-quality thread.

>> No.42196953

>>42196775
This is origin of loads of evil swords in fiction.

>> No.42196975

>>42196900
Wouldn't it just cauterize the wound?

Disclaimer: I don't know anything about medicine, just the first thought that popped in my head.

>> No.42196996
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42196996

>>42196937
A lot of old sword blades where unhardened. Others where merely slack quenched (resulting in fine grin pearlite instead of martensite, not nearly as hard or strong but far less risk of complete fuckups). Proper quenching might have become standard in Europe somewhere around the end of the middle ages IIRC.

>> No.42197027

>>42196935
It might, but it won't look like a sword afterwards.

>> No.42197030
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42197030

>>42196975
Well, that and having a one thousand degrees hot blade thrust into it might interfere with normal heart function.

>> No.42197127

>>42194289
Speaking of magic swords:

There are 50mg of iron in every milliliter of blood. The body makes 50ml of blood a day. The average sword weighs 1.5kg.

In about 2 years, you could extract enough iron from your own blood to forge the steel for a sword. Now if that doesn't yield some sort of supernatural result, I don't know what would.

>> No.42197187

>>42196996

>A lot of old sword blades where unhardened

Yes, and a lot of old sword blades were shit.

But I should have clarified, a blade heated to critical temperature before quenching is unlikely to do a proper stab, at least all the way through a person to the hilt, as would be required for such a "quench"

>> No.42197213

>>42197127

You are utterly mundane, what possible magic would your blood impart to a blade?

Now, the blood of some sort of creature which was already super natural...

>> No.42197219

>>42194759
But can jet fuel quench steel blades?

>> No.42197226

I can't wait until I'm skilled enough to call myself a Bladesmith. I've made a few "practice" blades, out of mild steel. Currently planning my first "real" blade, just a little 2.5-3 in Saex style blade from O-1 tool steel for a small utility knife for my dad, which I'll start on once I get my new forge set up.

Glad to read through such an informative thread.

>> No.42197244

>>42197213
And now you can make a good industry. Though being located in the Planes would increase possibilities of materials.

>> No.42197256

>>42197127
One can assume the Khorne equivalent in the setting would view the ritualistic extraction of blood for the purpose of crafting a weapon as the supreme act of devotional worship of him, and would bless you in some way.

>> No.42197268

>>42197213
Blood is inherently magical. Just like doors and crossroads.

It doesn't matter that I'm not magical, the blood is. The difficult part is making use of the magic in the blood. Making your blood into a sword seems like a fairly effectively way for a mundane to extract some of that latent magic.

>> No.42197289

>>42197213
After doing that for 2 years, you would get at least a mild autism effect from the blade.

>> No.42197364
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42197364

>>42194701
I might be a suicidal retard, but what would happen if I'd quench a blade in one of these?

My guess is brittle steel or deadly sharpnel everywhere.

>> No.42197366
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42197366

>>42197127
>The average sword weighs 1.5kg.
You loose some material along the way though, maybe half or so. There's a lot of metallic dust on the floor before you have a finished blade. And on top of that there's the loses extracting the iron from the blood.

>>42197213
>You are utterly mundane, what possible magic would your blood impart to a blade?
Sounds like a powerful magic-negating one.

>> No.42197384

>>42197127
I mean, presumably you wouldn't draw out all the blood you produce a day, or you would die of anemia.

>> No.42197390

>>42197364
dust

>> No.42197399

>>42197364
Already answered in this post >>42194701

>> No.42197408

>>42197364

It wouldn't work. the boiling nitrogen would form a sheathe of gas around the blade and cause it to lose heat slower than if you had just dipped it in a normal room temperature liquid.

>> No.42197409

>>42197384
That's why you use the blood of an enemy to do it.

>> No.42197430

>>42194289
IRL what matters is how fast it cools.
And that depends on density, themral capcaity and evaporations.

I think you could try quenching it in liquid nitrogen for cool effects but I doubt it will not shatter th eblade.

In fantasy quenching in enemy blood usualy gives it magic powers.

>> No.42197453

>Ctrl + f
>"piss"
>6 posts into the thread
>Ctrl + f
>"semen"
>0 matches

Okay, /tg/, I'm proud of you, you're getting better, showing some maturity, but it's still a long way to go

>> No.42197478

>>42194437
this

>> No.42197483

>>42196338
So in theory, assuming ideal conditions (proper ventilation, blacksmith wearing a hazmat-like suit, etc.) and the blade didn't get wrecked upon being quenched by mercury, would this be one of the hardest steel swords made in modern times?

And is there any real benefit to having such a hard blade, both in practical and combat purposes?

>> No.42197491

>>42194435
I think that water whn in contact evaporates and create a cuscion that doesn't conduct heat.
With oil havign a higher evaporation temprature the blade remaisn always in contact with the liquid.

This is called Leidemfrost effect, it is the reason drops of liquid nitrogen moves without drag on surfaces and why you can imerge your hand in liquid nitrogen and avoid injury (people say you if you immerge a wet hand in liquid lead the same effects applies) .

>> No.42197495

>>42197453

The "piss"es were from a post about actual mythological ideas about magical quenching

>> No.42197508

>>42197483

Not really. Hardness is necessary, but there's a tipping point where your blade is so rigid that it will explode the first time it strikes anything at combat force.

>> No.42197554

>>42194686
I think japanesse partialy cover the blade with clay to temper differentialy different parts of the blade (hard edge, soft back)

This is the reason of the wavy pattern on katana called hamon

>> No.42197562

>>42196338
You could quench a blade in the core of a mercury-vortex device, like Die Glocke or one of the attempts to reproduce its mechanism, as the magnetic forces passed through the mercury circulate it at incredible speeds.

>you will never wield an infinitely strong sword imbued with Nazi magic

>> No.42197571

>>42197554
then Most of thing I learned is from yotube videso sauch as this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNuEDtnVdeM

A required channel for this thread.

>> No.42197586

>>42197364
As cold as it is, it might not be a very effective cooling media.

Water has a relatively high heat capacity, so it takes a lot of energy to heat it from room temperature to boiling. And it has a very high heat of vaporisation, ie it take s a huge amount of energy to go from 100 degrees hot liquid to 100 degrees hot steam. This allows water to very quickly remove a lot of heat from something.

Nitrogen on the other hand doesn't consume nearly as much energy as it boils, and the nitrogen gas that's produced isn't going to absorb significant amounts of energy.

So the cooling in nitrogen might be to slow for anything of note to happen, even though it'll eventually get the steel extremely cold.

On a tangent, I once (very briefly) dipped my fingertips in liquid nitrogen. It felt pretty odd.

>> No.42197629
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42197629

>>42194710
So what if you quench you balde in poor vodka?

The steel turns red and the spirit of Comunism awakens inside it?

+1 against nobility and merchants?

>> No.42197643

OK, so what other unusual quenching fluids could be used? Someone mentioned lead, what about quenching in silver, gold, bronze, platinum, or various other metals that have a lower melting point than steel?

>> No.42197647

>>42197571
I lost any respect I had for that guy after that horribly flimsy and embarrassing Captain America shield. The pieces didn't even stick together, and it would've folded if you'd thrown a softball at it.

>> No.42197664

>>42197647
there are new guys now.

>> No.42197667

>>42197629
>Kitanaxe

I can't decide if that thing is hideous or gorgeous.

>> No.42197679

>>42197483
Unless you temper away most of that hardness, the lade would be unusably brittle. The hardness also isn't going to go infinitely high, the atoms can only be pushed so far no matter what.

And for high hardness and so, IIRC we already have cryo-treatments and highly alloyed stuff.

>>42197562
For an infinitely strong blade I'm afraid you're going to have to start working on shaped singularities.

>> No.42197745

>>42197491
here is the Leidenfrost effects explained
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTOCAd2QhGg

>> No.42197786

>>42197219
It would burn andmelt the steel, possibly putting it into a very un-blade like shape.

>> No.42197817

>>42196681

Sounds like a plot hook.

>For which game

>> No.42197852

>>42194289

I did this with my 5e campaign. If you wanted to make a magic elemental weapon you had to 'quench' it in a place of significance to the element. You wanted a Flamue Tongue, go quench it in a pool of lava at the heart of a volcano. You want an Ice Brand, go quench it in a glacier from before recorded time. It was either that or capturing an elemental of the right type and negotiating an agreement for it to lend you its power.

>> No.42197877

>>42197667

It's hideous

>> No.42197901

>>42197852
>quench in lava

What.

>>42197877
Hideous and stupid in an oddly charming way.

>> No.42197942

>>42197667
Well I like it quite a bit. I might have bad taste, though.

>> No.42197948

>>42197508
That and including the risk of the blade literally exploding in the prosess due to the tension when the inner layer of metal cant keep up with the outer hardening. Seen it happen once. Dangerous shit.

Anyway. Generally speaking the process of hardening depends lot from the quality of the steel, thickness and the overall quality of the smithing (number of times reheated mostly). Preheated oil is the most commonly used by professionals, but some tend to do their own mixes of liquid (i have heard of some using ingredients such as: Honey, coffee, tea, urine, feces, cooking oil, egg white, river water, alcohol and numerous of other things) Some of such recipes can be generations old and still be used even if they dont have proper evidence in their claimed superiority. It is rather interesting really but as said somewhere i read once: effects of suggestion can alter the way the tool is used and that way make it better than others equally well made items.

>> No.42197973

>>42197901
Maybe the blade is forged out of a meteorite and it's ninety percent iridium. Sure it doesn't make engineering sense but a sword like that has got to have some magic in it.

>> No.42197978

>>42197817

probably real life

the party is a group of forensic investigators

>> No.42197993
File: 24 KB, 200x203, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42197993

>>42195391

>> No.42198006

What about quenching in honey?
What real life and what magical proprieties will it assume?

>> No.42198035

>>42198006
It would probably turn the honey into burnt sugar, basically.

>> No.42198049

>>42198006
>magical properties

A sword that makes

>> No.42198070

>>42198049
*makes live bees appear in the wound.

It cut me off.

>> No.42198179

>>42196547
I think you can quench swords in snow...
Or maybe it is just a legend passed from the Conan movie.

>> No.42198242

>>42197643
The function of the quench during swordsmithing is to convert austenite to martinsite. Just making the steel hot then cold isn't the only part that is important. The starting temperature is important since the steel needs to be austenite, the rate of cooling is important since the austenite to martinsite transition has to be diffusionless, and the ending temperature is important since the steel needs to be too cold for any diffusion to occur following the quench to maintain the martinsite microstructure.

So, in theory, only liquids that can cool a sword to below about 400C can be used. Anything hotter than about 400C will cause diffusion in the steel forming pearlite which is much softer than martinsite.

>> No.42198263

>>42197629
>So what if you quench you balde in poor vodka?
Fire.

>> No.42198276

>>42197127
>50mg of iron in every milliliter of blood
last time i reaserched this (It was a discussion about a Naruto fanfiction...) It resulted I had to kill 100 people to form a blade.

Are you sure about that 50mg per ml?

>> No.42198368

>>42197127
people already use blood to make sculptures
http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2009/sep/10/marc-quinn-frozen-blood-sculpture

http://www.marcquinn.com/work/list/tag/self+%28blood+head%29/

How can I extract Iron from the blood?

>> No.42198385

>>42198368
Magnets?

>> No.42198417

>>42194510 makes stupid comment, everyone blasts him for it then >>42194701 comes along and tells us that piss actually WAS used for forging.

What the fuck man I don't even know what's /d/ anymore.

>> No.42198487

>>42198417
The past is a terrifying place, anon.

>> No.42198616

>>42198368
I'm sure that there are more efficient chemical ways to do this, but if you're doing it on the cheap your best bet is to use certain types of bacteria. "Bog iron" is a type of low-quality iron ore found in swamps as a byproduct of bacteria that metabolize iron compounds. It's not too high quality, but it has the advantage of being easily extracted. Anyway, you're going to want to let the blood decompose to free up the iron in it, then once you've done that introduce ferrophilic bacteria into the culture. It will be a slow process, but it will work. As a plus side, the residual silicates will make the blood sword resistant to rusting.

>> No.42198654

>>42198417
Remember, human nature rarely changes, ever since people learnt of quenching people have wondered "what would happen if I used x" and as such people tried weird things.

>> No.42198679
File: 157 KB, 1280x720, original.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42198679

>>42198368
just burn it untill you have ore.

and then use usual ore porcessing methods (which is burn it again)

>> No.42198714

>>42198654
People have also always wanted to find new, mystical uses for any bodily fluids they could think of. This is literally older than human civilization, and people will probably still do it forever.

>> No.42198784

What would be some good ways to spice up smithing in a fantasy setting that's believable and still exotic and "Fantasy"-like?

Ideas like strange quenching methods, special alloys and anything like that are welcome.

>> No.42198825

>>42198654
Plus some materials will have been better than others, so when the sword quenched in rain water loses to the sword quenched in goat's milk in a battle the smith may claim that their choice of quenching material was better, regardless of if it was or not.

>> No.42198857
File: 38 KB, 620x685, 620px-Heme_b.svg.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42198857

>>42198368
Presumably, it would require a lot of energy. And a lot of people.

An average, well fed male contains approximately 4 grams of iron. Total. Thus, assuming you could extract every single molecule of that and collect it, you'd need about 500 people to produce 2 kg iron, which is on the very low end of what you need for a sword.

Next, consider the iron bound in molecules. In a heme b group, the single iron is bound between four nitrogen atoms. Both iron and nitrogen is known to produce strong bonds, so it's not completely out of the picture that breaking these bonds would require quite a bit of energy. Mind you, I don't know how much of this particular molecule there is in blood, nor anything else for that matter, it was just an example I found.

Also a disclaimer; I'm not a chemist in any way. I just read some chemistry recently, and it's still pretty fresh in memory.

>> No.42198990
File: 103 KB, 1000x1000, s13.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42198990

>>42194289
>Would the type liquid the blade is quenched in affect the end product?
not in the grand scheme of things... It sounds like whether or not you use water or oil may impart some small change to it's properties but not likely enough to affect its stats in most gaming systems.

I think you would get far more interesting properties by changing the material used than how it's cooled afterwards.

Like a sword forged from Tungsten-carbide, Aluminum, Iridium, or hell go crazy and have a sword forged from Uranium. these metals probably would give the sword unusual properties.

>> No.42199075

>>42198368
Let the blood air-dry, then put the giant scab into a furnace. The organic components will burn away, and the iron will remain, probably with about the right amount of residual carbon for steel.

>> No.42199113

>>42199075
Won't work, the iron will also be burned away.

Also, the iron is mainly in red blood cells, so blood would be more efficient.

>> No.42199242

>>42198990
>Uranium
being so dense having a hammer made of Uranium would probably be a good idea.

>> No.42199252

>>42198070
>It cut me off.
Your post is now BEES!!

>> No.42199321

>>42197127
I remember a thread about tree dwelling elves whose blacksmiths lived on the ground and made swords from the blood of dead kin. Was pretty interesting.

>> No.42199390

>>42199242
Thing is at that weight you would need quite a bit of time to ready it, so you might only be good for one strike (one hell of a doozy though). Plus weight only helps on down swings, most weapons are only improved by weight if the weight adds rigidity.

>> No.42199426
File: 23 KB, 800x597, 1418360253303.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42199426

>>42197366
>blood-iron magical blades made to negate magic, used by witch-hunters and vampire slayers

I like this a lot, particularly with the irony of a blood-made blade killing a vampire.

>> No.42199474

>>42199426
During the quench in poisoned blood the sword absorbs it, and when hitting a vampire realease the venom.

>> No.42199478

>>42199242
>>42199390
true, though depending on how depleted it is, it may have some inherent poisoning effects on the target...

note, lead sheath may be necessary.

>> No.42199513

>>42199474
Nah, it's cooler if it's just plain human blood, and that still ironically makes the blade good against magical creatures like vampires.

>> No.42199636

>>42199474
Poisoned blood is kind of weird, especially since poison wouldn't really carry over to the metal, and vampires aren't especially weak against poison as far as I know.

The magical negating effect of blood-metal is the really important part - if you wanted a specifically anti-vampire blade, you could quench it in holy water.

>> No.42199827
File: 52 KB, 504x445, FeC.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42199827

>>42196123
Look I just gave a basic explanation for the layman. I didnt go into work hardeing, since this was about quenching. I too did the course, seen the diagrams and am stuck with the books nobody wants to buy used because there's a new print. I just didnt think the details were really necessary for the purposes of this thread and the people in it, but yeah.

>> No.42199879

Huh, a forging thread.

There's something I've been pondering for quite some time now; would it be possible to make a blade out of iron carbide with 4-6% carbon? Can you even forge a steel with that much carbon in it, or would it just shatter?

Ignoring that, if you managed to get a flat piece of iron carbide would it even be possible to sharpen it or would it break apart?

>> No.42200039

>>42198006
actualy i think it would go pretty well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awuaBAH8wXo


Fuck now I will be trying to convince the guys on Man at Arms (4chan forbids me to link to the FB discussion) to quench a swod in honey or lead.
Any ideas for a bee/honey/haxgon themed weapon that SHOULD be quenched in honey?

>> No.42200351

>>42198857
In theory, hemoglobin burns like every other non-bone organic compound. All the carbon, hydrogen, and nitrogen should burn off leaving only the iron.

No idea how much heat you'd need and there's a good chance the iron would be lost in the fire.

Really, the bones are more valuable. All that calcium can be turned into quick lime in a good furnace.

>> No.42200407

>>42200039
Some dirk like weapon to be coated in poison and stabbed into people. Maybe the blade could be a hexagonal pyramid or the grip a hexagonal prism.

>> No.42200548

>>42197647

Yeah, Tony, the fat prop making hack, is gone. It's a new Smithy, Baltimore Knife and Sword, and these guys give a damn. That particular video that was linked is a very traditional forgibg of a Katana, starting with Bloom Steel, all the way to a finished sword. It's actually a great video and they make an excellent blade.

>> No.42200675

>>42200039

Bee themed Viking sword quenched in mead.

>> No.42200693

Here's a question.
If you used strict atmosphere control (Chemical air conditioning and fans with speeds that can be changed by small increments), would it be possible to create a "perfect" quench by micromanaging airflow around the item?

>> No.42200697
File: 1013 KB, 2327x2980, Caspar_David_Friedrich_-_Wanderer_above_the_sea_of_fog.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42200697

>>42197127
dunno where you got 50mg to a ml from but the normal estimate is 250mg to a pint (way way less). plus the blood doner people say that you should wait 16 weeks between pint donations, and given that the bit with the iron is the bit that takes the longest to replenish and given that anyone trying this would be keeping up the transfers for a long long time you probably wouldn't wanna undercut the safety guidelines by more then a week at most. in 2 years you would have more like 1.7g of iron not 1.5 kg.
However... as>>42197366 says you probably loose about half of the iron you can collect from blood in the forging process. and given the tiny amounts of metal you'd be working with in extraction loosing about a fifth of whats actually in the blood to one thing or another before forging doesn't seem unreasonable. If an immortal were to start collecting there blood at this rate at the very dawn of the iron age (call it 1200BC) they would have enough iron to forge a 1.1kg sword right about now.
TLDR: no you can't make a sword from your own blood. But the immortal Anatolian blood witch BBEG of your next campaign can and should.

>> No.42200776

>>42200697
Hey now. You *can* make a sword from your own blood. It would just take, like, years to collect the iron.

>> No.42200858

>>42200776
It's more on the order of centuries, but yes, it would take years to collect the iron.

>> No.42200998

This thread is solid fucking gold.

>> No.42201025

>>42200858
that or go horizontal instead of length ways. why have one guy bleed 11000ish pints when the entire clan can donate over a few years. as long as its the same blood line its probablly fine.

>> No.42201056

>>42201025
Or go full Hitler-mode and extract all of the blood of thousands of people at once.

>> No.42201125
File: 4 KB, 125x125, best thread on tg.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42201125

Learning stuff I didn't even know I needed to know, good thread.

>> No.42201168

>>42201056
once I wanted to make a Vampire campaign where it was discovered that 6 milions jews were used to collect their bloods for a mega ritual.

And the current CERN was the launching pad for that project.

>> No.42201272

http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/1998-05/891633988.An.r.html
>According to the American Red Cross, one pint of blood contains about 250 milligrams of iron. Since the average human has about 10 - 12 pints of blood total, and this accounts for half of the iron in the body, that comes out to between 5 and 6 grams of iron per adult human body. That's just enough iron to make a medium- sized nail.

A thousand people, each giving a pint of blood, with 90% of the iron being recovered, would produce about 220g of iron.
Assuming you need 2kg of iron to forge a sword, you need 9091 people to give blood.

>> No.42201338
File: 1.00 MB, 1906x798, 1387375768093.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42201338

>>42201056
or full paladin.
>city besieged by daemons on all fronts no way out.
>entire population donates about a pint each the strong a little more the young and weak a little less.
>thousands of pints gathered and burned away leaving only the iron.
>Sword forged from the literal heart and life force of the city, carrying their last hope and immense magical power.
>given to their last great hero to wield in an all or nothing charge from the main gate.

>> No.42201746

>>42200858
Does taking a healing potion refuel your blood (for lack of a better term)? If so, you could manage it with a good amount of healing pots on hand. If you could completely regenerate all lost blood with a healing potion, how many would you need to get enough iron for a sword, if going nonstop?

>> No.42201813

>>42201338
>My sword is not just the will of the People. My sword IS the People!

>> No.42201820

>>42198784
I think blacksmithing in general, along with similar sorts of specialized skills, were once regarded as being a type of magic in and of themselves.

>> No.42201923

Does /k/ talk about blacksmithing at all?

Because this shit is fascinating.

>> No.42201952

>>42201746
Why not try quenching the sword in healing potion?

>> No.42201973

>>42201923
/k/ doesn't care about things that aren't guns or modern knives.

>> No.42202038

>>42201952
You'd get a Merciful weapon. Or a straight yo healing one.

>> No.42202049

>>42198179
Snow would certainly work better than a solid block of ice.

>> No.42202123

>>42201923
>>>/diy/862712

>> No.42202133

>>42201813
>The Peoples Sword is a city's most treasured possession.
>individual swords usually carry the name of the city and the same inscription.
>" In time of greatest need any soul who calls London/Stalingrad/(city name here) home may wield my might"

>> No.42202223

>mfw my college has a blacksmithing club
Based.

>> No.42202331
File: 53 KB, 469x469, catholic2bpriest.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42202331

>>42194289
So the fact we can quench it in water means we can quench it in holy water which means a priesthood that forges holy weapons is totally happening in my next games

>> No.42202477

>>42197127
You've misplaced your decimal point a couple places. It's 0.5 mg of iron per 1.0 mL of blood, not 50.

So that's more like 200 years. More the domain of cultist doing mass sacrifice (thereby obtaining the blood in parallel), or perhaps the lifetime's work of a very long-lived legendary blacksmith or blacksmith-based god or demigod.

>> No.42202490

>>42201746
A few thousand.
>>42201272
pointed out you need around 8,000 pints of blood before accounting for loss from forging, if you could extract all your blood without dying from exsanguination, you could get it down to 800, but most people die upon losing about half, and lets say you lose about half from wastage (from both forging and extraction you will lose quite a bit), it would therefore take about 3200 to make your sword.
If I may mathfag some more, if we assume the bottles are about 4'x4'x8' or 10x10x20 cm the total volume you would need would be about 237 cubic feet, 8.7 cubic yards or 6.4 cubic metres, to put that into further perspective, you would need a loaded pallet with potions a little taller than you are in all three dimensions

>> No.42202497

>>42202331
1.ritualistically bless mountain
2.miners are members of priesthood only
3.wood from a particularly holy building/cross/something
4.Smith is high ranking priest.
5.Use only coal and iron from blessed mountains.
6.Embed the bones of saints in the handle/use them in the production of the forge/use them in the production of charcoal/grind them up and put them in holy water.
7.quench the blade in the belly of a heretic.
8.Ritualistically bless the final product.

Now go purge evil.

>> No.42202535

>>42202477
>find orphans
>harvest blood
>make orphan blood dagger
>use it to kill more orphans

And that's how to summon a demon.

>> No.42202607

>>42201272
>According to the American Red Cross, one pint of blood contains about 250 milligrams of iron

Alas, this is a massive overestimate. It's not 250 mg of iron, it's 250 mg of *ferritin*, which is merely an iron-containing molecule.

The actual number is ~0.5 mg/L, or ~2.4 mg/pint

>> No.42202657

>>42201272
>Taste the steel of the Knights of the Red Cross, made from the blood of ten thousand slaves. Safely extracted and properly cared for of course.

>> No.42202704

>>42202607
So we need to jack up our estimates by a factor of ten.
>This is not merely the sword of my people! This sword is my people! One hundred thousand men and women, their blood bound in metal!

>> No.42202764

>>42202607
>The actual number is ~0.5 mg/L, or ~2.4 mg/pint

Oh, god damnit. I misread the study I was looking at. It's 0.5 mg per MILLILITER, which comes to just about 250 mg/pint.

I'm dumb!

>> No.42202833

>>42202490
That was fun... may as well do the math for the volume of blood.
First when drawing blood they take a little less than an American pint of blood, this is important as there are various "pints", to be exact a pint of blood is 450 ml.
Next I will be using >>42201272 for the amount of iron needed, if we assume we can extract all the iron we need about 8000 pints, doing some basic multiplication we get 3600 litres, which is 3.6 cubic metres (which would need a vessel of a bit above a metre and a half, 1.533m to be more precise).
Random fact: if we have an efficiency rate of 56.25 percent we would need as much space to store the necessary blood as we would healing potion.

>> No.42202906

>>42201923
We actually have semi-regular forging/smithing threads, but it really depends on who exactly is browsing the board when you make the thread. You might get 300 replies, or your thread may be pruned without a response.

>> No.42202989

>>42202906
Why would it be pruned? /k/ is "Weapons", not "Firearms".

>> No.42203071

>>42202989
Ah, I mean falling off the last page, not moderation deletion.

>> No.42203091

>>42201813
>>42202657
>>42202704
>a full suit of plate armor is 30-50 kg the sword was 1.1kg
do you think once cities got way bigger, like high hundreds of thousands cities would start forging whole suits to make the 1 champion damn near indestructible in times of need or start churning out a a couple of dozen swords and having a full on retinue.
>ser Martin wielder of the heart of the dockside
>ser Renault wielder of the heart of the west end
>ser William wielder of the heart of East-gate
>ser Roland weilder of the heart of tanners lane and the narrows.

>> No.42203094

>>42202989
It's probably because real interest for non-gunpowder weapons is still on /tg/, where we like fantasy stuff. More people who like guns go over to /k/, since there's not much guntalk here.

>> No.42203109

>>42202764
Anyway, using the correct number, this comes to about 650 person-years per sword assuming 1 pint of blood per person per 4 weeks (the Red Cross minimum safe limit) and a 2-kg sword.

So, not counting forging losses or the losses involved in alchemically extracting the iron from the blood, a fairly large medieval city (10,000 people) could make it in just 24 days.

Or you could just exsanguinate 800 people, ideally with a wicked obsidian dagger on top of a rune-carved altar, probably while wearing hooded robes.

>> No.42203200

>>42202764
with this new information I'd need to readjust my calculations:
>>42202490
the pallet would instead be a 4mx4mx4m cube, or about you, with your hands fully extended above your head, twice over.
>>42202833
36 cubic meters would be closer to you standing on your own shoulders, in each direction.
Another random fact: a cubic metre of water is a metric tonne, with blood being only 2.5% heavier, so the weight of my results is equal to the the volume, except replace "cubic metre" with tonne.

>> No.42203204

>>42202477
Or an elf swordsman.

>> No.42203389
File: 288 KB, 2060x1892, Osmium_cluster.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42203389

How well would a blade of osmium fare?

>> No.42203468

>>42203389

It would be extremely heavy_.

>> No.42203527

>>42203389
Heavy, brittle, and hard.

>> No.42203563

>>42203389
Wikipedia says it's hard, but brittle. So you'd have to add a softer metal into the mix to keep it from shattering. You might - might - be able to try Osmiridium.

However, it also has one of the highest melting points of all elements, so you might be able to try and forge it into a shield or armor meant to be especially resistant to fire.

>> No.42203621

>>42194686
When "drawing out" an edge yes.
I always use bacon fat... for the mudslimes of course

>> No.42203650

>>42203621
>Sword of Bacon
>+1 against Islam
>"Absolutely Haram"

>> No.42203658

>>42196338
>>42195246
What about quenching in 2-3 steps?
>low temp liquid metal or some other material to ~350C
>mercury
Will the mercury still boil?

>> No.42203666

>>42203563
It would also need very low ability to conduct heat.

>> No.42203687

>>42203650

>The Pork Sword

>> No.42203720

>>42203658

It would be extremely hazardous. Mercury releases toxic gasses already, and I can only imagine it's be exacerbated by the inclusion of a red-hot piece of metal.

>> No.42203748

>>42196547
The temperature differential is too great. The sword would shatter instantly, or become too brittle to use.

>> No.42203820

>>42203720
You mean gasses other than vaporous mercury? Hmmm. Maybe a layer of oil/water floating on top of it, say 10-15% of the depth? I'm not asking what EXACTLY would happen, just spitballing semi-plausible convoluted recipes.

>> No.42203877
File: 9 KB, 511x137, 505-produktinfo.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42203877

This thread seams like a good place to ask I'm looking for an axe like the Gränsfors Bruk four-lugged chopping axe. But there ancient axes are out of production. Anyone know a similar alternative?

http://www.gransforsbruk.com/en/products/gransfors-ancient-axes/gransfors-four-lugged-chopping-axe/

>> No.42203887

So how would liquid cement fare? Would it have different properties if the cement was washed off with water or wiped off with a rag? I assume the cement would find and stick to any imperfections in the blade if it was wiped off.

>> No.42204991

>>42203887
I'm no expert but you might get minerals in the cement into small imperfections in the blade.

>> No.42206639

>>42203820
>You mean gasses other than vaporous mercury?

No.

>>42203887
Instead of a hardened blade you have get a cement-caked one.

>> No.42206869

>>42206639
>No.
....so what did you mean? The point was to cool the blade below the boiling point of mercury and THEN put it in mercury.

>> No.42207277
File: 22 KB, 350x350, no regrets.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42207277

>>42197127
Making a sword out of blood sounds pretty metal.

>> No.42207319

>>42207277
What took so long, Carlos?

>> No.42207460

>>42197256

I could see this. Some Khorne worshipper enslaves a planet and collects all the blood in a vat to extract the iron used to make a blade which is then blessed so it's as strong as any adamantine blade because it's also a Daemon weapon

>> No.42207516

>>42194289

The blade is sharpened only along one edge and at the tip, but it is sharpened to a razor's edge. It is forged with a special technique known only in the east, where layers of steel and iron are sandwiched, heated, folded, stretched, re-folded, stretched, re-folded, on and on until the blade consists of microscopically thin layers of alternating metals, providing strength, resilience, and the ability to hold a remarkable edge.

>> No.42207847

>>42207516
Katanafags pls go.

>> No.42207927
File: 54 KB, 750x600, NFriends.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42207927

>>42203200
I just wish to point something out. Using human blood to reduce to iron, and then smelt to steel, to forge a blade, using your numbers of 8000 pints of blood, is equal to approximately 4 TONS (short tons, 3.62874 metric tons) of blood. Just blood, not including containers of any kind.
Gathering that much in one place would be problematic enough, but this is literally 4+ PALLETS of liquid human essence(plus containers) and that shit is going to be a bitch to reduce and smelt.
I'm betting that the reduction process will garner a loss rate of AT LEAST 50% using non-magical, non-modern methods (and then probably electroplating or otherwise bonding the iron in a solution, for best results). Then you have really shitty iron to try smelt in to some not shitty steel. 15%+ loss just from the shit iron to steel (again, unless using a magical or modern process). Then you have all the little things during the actual forging and polishing and sharpening. You'll be lucky to get 50% blood to blade. It's always safer to have extra than not enough, might want to get a few more pallets of liquid people brought in.

>> No.42207939

>Quenching a weapon in this morning's dew allows animals to use it entirely on instinct
>Dousing metal in alcohol, while extremely dangerous, gives anything cut or eaten from it a slight taste of alcohol, making it common for silversmiths to use for kitchenware, cutlery, and eating utensils for parties
>Quenching a blade in tree sap turns all blood spilled from wounds into sap

>> No.42208006

>>42207927
But the sheer magical POWER of such a process is worth even MORE blood being spilled!

Do you even BBEG?!

>> No.42208326

>>42194289
actually... since this is a good thread to ask this...
I was thinking of adding some unusual materials to my PF setting and had some Ideas, tell me what you think:

>Dogwood:
weapons made primarily out of dogwood are treated as holy for purposes of overcoming damage reduction

>Aluminum
weapons and armor made from this dull grey metal are treated as master-crafted and weigh 1/2 their weight, also any spell targeting an item made of aluminum or a person wearing aluminum armor automatically fails.

>Iridium
Shinier than polished mithril, and as expensive as platinum, Items made of Iridium always count as master-crafted and are impervious to all forms of corrosion, even by magic.

>Tungsten-carbide
this black-colored metal has nearly the same profile as adamantium, which doesn't exist in the setting.

>Uranium
an odd brownish-colored metal weapons made from Uranium are heavier but if an opponent is struck by the weapon become poisoned, if the weapon is not carried in a lead sheath, then the wielder will also be poisoned after 24 hours.

>Selenium
weapons made from this unusual metal gain the fragile quality, but in the light of a full moon are treated as master-crafted

that's what I got so far, thoughts?

>> No.42208363

>>42208326
Not sure what the point of the aluminum magic immunity is.

>> No.42208416

>>42207516
>>42207847
Technically partially correct, but regardless of how sharp it is, its construction does lead to a single glaring flaw:

It requires technique to use. You have to draw it, fluidly, along the cut, or the impact will wreak havoc on it.

If you wield it like your standard European sharpened steel stick one of two things will happen. It will either fold forward unnaturally, or the layers of metal inside it will separate from the impact and it will break.

Because of how it's folded to remove impurities in the metal, it likely can't be reforged, because it will need to be folded again, and doing that too many times will wear down its durability and make it brittle, because of just how much it's being worked every time it is worked.

>> No.42208428

>>42208326
>uranium
>poisonous
Make it a flaming weapon, uranium is pyrophoric.

>> No.42208527

>>42208363
>Not sure what the point of the aluminum magic immunity is.
screw-ball logic, In every movie depiction of War of the Worlds, the Tripods are depicted as having force-fields protecting them, in the original book they didn't have force-fields of any sort, but from one excerpt it implies that the Tripods are made of Aluminum. So I went halfway and decided that Aluminum has some weird property that makes it behave like its encased in a permanent anti-magic field. Obviously it's screw-ball logic, but then magic is generally based on screw-ball logic anyway so I figured it'd fit right in.

>> No.42208543
File: 22 KB, 400x235, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42208543

>>42203687
>The Porking of Islam

>> No.42208630

>>42207927
I mean, you can always reduce the blood into iron as you get it, which would cut down on the logistical problem of storing all that blood to begin with.

>> No.42208944

I have a j question regarding chrome vanadium steel. I saw it listed on KultofAthena's website as the material for several 'high-quality' swords coming out of Italy. From some basic research it seems that the steel is mostly used for making tools. Could somebody explain to be what qualities chrome vanadium steel has over just plain carbon steel or something like T10?

>> No.42209115

>>42208944
Probably resistance to corrosion or rusting. Some types of it are also referred to as high speed steels, and are good at resisting the pressures of moving at high speeds, such as what you might see with saw blades or drill bits.

>> No.42209160
File: 342 KB, 1024x1024, 1392925972063.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42209160

>>42197571
That's like watching porn, or someone giving birth.

>> No.42209805

>>42206869
mercury releases vapor at room temperature, using it as a quench would release a fuckload more.

>> No.42209899

I was actually wondering about metallurgy earlier this morning, particularly cobalt. I realize Iron and Steel are used for a reason and the reason is they hold edge, bend but don't break, and so on, but how would a situation dictate the use of other materials? If not entirely made of this other material, then perhaps alloyed with it. For example, Cobalt is very water and heat resistant, so I was thinking it would be used on the seas, in swamps, or something.

>> No.42209911

>>42209805
oh, okay. Does having a liquid on top interfere with that, or does it just diffuse into said liquid and into the air at a slower rate?

>> No.42209939

>>42209911
Bubbles exist, anon.

>> No.42209944

>>42197629
Top kek

>> No.42210058

>>42196547
I have actually tried this, on a very low scale. I heated a basic mild steel rod to the point it was yellow, just before turning white and then becoming liquid.

I placed the rod upon a small block of ice, about 5" cubed. The sound was a hiss like when you stir water in a pan and the hot metal touches cooler water. There was no explosion, but from rapid expansion the ice did crack down the centre.

The metal rod became very hard, to the point that a simple bend test shattered the piece with about 150lbs of pressure.

>> No.42210227

>>42194805
Also depends on the oil. Different oils have different boiling/ignition points and other important properties

>> No.42210291

>>42210227

I've heard Peanut Oil makes a decent quenchent for blades. True?

>> No.42210553

>>42194289
Quenching sets the grain structure of the iron crystals making the piece hard (good at holding an edge) but brittle. You can snap a piece of hardened steel over your knee like a branch. Then you temper it by heating it up to a relatively low temperature (400-450 degrees is a good knife temp) to trade some of that hardness for flexibility so your sword doesn't snap the first time it hits a shield. Different quenching agents cause the steel to cool at different speeds. Oil is preferred to water by a lot of modern smiths because it cools slower and leads to fewer stress fractures. Not all steels need to be oil quenched (or quenched at all, air "quench" steels exist).

In my opinion as an amateur blacksmith too much mysticism is put in the quench. It looks cool but there are better places to put in the magic. If I was making up a magic sword I would either have making the bloom (hunk of iron after processing ore) or the temper be the magic bit. Seriously cracking a Bloomery is amazing you shovel rocks in the top for 6 hours, then pull still glowing steel out of the thing.

>> No.42210680

>>42194665
For whatever reason, the house's chamber pot sat near the quenching vat.

>> No.42211123

>>42197366
I'm sure what you're saying is really interesting, but what ever. Is that a club made out of chainsaw chains?

>> No.42211159

>>42194289
Swords with divine enchantments must be quenched in holy water.
Dragonsbane swords must be quenched in the blood of a dragon the smith killed
Unholy swords must be quenched in babies.

>> No.42211305

>>42198006
You'd end up with a worthless blade covered in caramel.

Well, I guess it isn't that worthless. You can lure young maidens into your carriage with the promise of candy.

>> No.42211358
File: 1.60 MB, 288x229, BlackMagic.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42211358

>>42200039
>That fucking video
>There are also another hundred RHNB videos
>Some dude just sits around all day wondering what else he can drop a red hot nickle ball on next and posting the results on youtube

This is the most pointless shit ever but I'll watch each and every one of these videos. Fucking internet, man. Fucking internet.

>> No.42211648

>>42199242
Probably an axe head with uranium core and tungsten blade would be a really hard hitting axe

>> No.42211688

I vaguely remember somebody (KM?) posting a while back describing when they processed iron out of sand, but I can't seem to find it in the archives. Does anyone have a link?

>> No.42211693

>>42211159
>the smith killed
Complete bullshit, where the blood come from do not matter.
You, too, can get your very own dragon* blood, for the small sum of ninety-nine gold coins !


*or dragonoid

>> No.42211790

>>42201952
you get a weapon that instnaly close the wound to prevent bloodloss after cutting you.

Usualy peole call such weapons lightsabers

>> No.42211896

If you add radioactive shit to your steel can you make your balde glow?

How can I make my blade glow IRL?

>> No.42211917

>>42211896
radium powder

>> No.42211958

>>42198990
>tungsten carbide
Yeah, the special property is that it explodes the first time it hits anything remotely hard

>> No.42211983

>>42199113
>Won't work, the iron will also be burned away.

Cool the smoke before releasing it - only those components that are lighter than air will actually leave, the iron will deposit as rust in the cooling chamber.

>> No.42212027

>>42211896
Wrapping sweet red LEDs around it.

>> No.42212389

>>42211896
>If you add radioactive shit to your steel can you make your balde glow?

TECHNICALLY yes. However: Anything that is radioactive enough to release cherenkov light in air is radioactive enough to kill you if you look at it.

>> No.42212415

>>42198616
That's some interesting shit

>> No.42212492

>>42198784
Make a sintered sword out of the pulverized form of the hardest material available bound with the toughest one, then have it magically sharpened. Literally the best weapon ever in your setting

>> No.42212588

>>42197127
>There are 50mg of iron in every milliliter of blood.

That would mean the blood in average human would weight about 200 kg.

>> No.42212684

>>42200693
You'd probably need something much denser than just air to cool the metal quickly enough - that or hurricane speed airflow.

>> No.42212727

>>42208326
>Uranium sword

Unless it's made entirely from U-235, it's only a weak alpha-emitter in which no lead sheath would be necessary. I'd wash my hands before eating anything, though.

>> No.42212753

>>42208527
>not describing it as tin foil logic

>> No.42212767

>>42195391
Fedora fag detected.

>> No.42212806

>>42194289
Quench it in an elf
What do /tg/?

>> No.42212825

>>42212588
>50g per liter
>multiply by 5 at the most
>get 250g
Wrong

>> No.42212896

>>42197364
liquid nitrogen is used in the heat treatment of some steels (mainly stainless steels) but not for quenching

>> No.42212927

>>42201952
The ultimate torture device>>42201973

>> No.42212951

>>42200693
some steels are air quenching

>> No.42213221

>>42194665
She's also a fuller by trade, and the water bucket was empty.

>> No.42213231

>>42202497
Is this how Holy Avengers are made?

>> No.42213684 [SPOILER] 
File: 186 KB, 480x360, 1441023891157.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42213684

>> No.42213729

>>42202331
>>42202497
Actually, Monks (Cisterns, specifically) were moving forward the steel producing technology.

>> No.42214204

>>42213684
This would be a danger to humanity.

>> No.42214635

>>42212727
>it's only a weak alpha-emitter in which no lead sheath would be necessary.
you know that's not true, in the four corners region there was a uranium mine and a LOT of the miners who worked there ended up dying of radiation poisoning. uranium is dangerous stuff, even naturally occurring Uranium needs to be treated with caution.

>> No.42214678

>>42214635
Yes, in a mine you inhale that shit. Alpha is really dangerous if it comes into contact with anything vital, but it's stopped by a thin sheet of paper, not to mention skin, which is highly radiation resistant.

Just ask Alexander Litvinenko.

>> No.42214901

>>42203389
>pen nibs are made of an alloy made with osmium
I must go now, to forge a sword made from over ten thousand pens

>> No.42215018

>>42214901
The pen is the mightiest sword?

>> No.42215120

>>42214635
That's because the miners inhaled uranium dust. Alpha emitters are perfectly safe, because your skin protects you ... but if it ends up in your lungs, with no skin to shield it, you're in trouble.

Also uranium is just hella toxic, like most heavy metals.

>> No.42215190

>>42202535

Man, we had a knife of killing Women and Children turn up in a game at one point. Inevitably, this led to such lines as "Wait, Do I think that Deathknight was female when it was alive? Fuck yes, bonus damage"

Still waiting on the knife of killing dudes and the old.

>> No.42215250

>>42212806
> Quench it in an elf
> At night, elves come and take you hostage
> They transport you towards the borders of the Soviet Russia

>> No.42215656

>>42213684
Motherfucker I was gonna do that

>> No.42215997

>>42213684
What's the joke?

>> No.42216116

>>42215997
The pictured character is notorious for her vaginal fluids.

>> No.42217148

SO wait
In this thread you say that salt water is better for tempering due to the way boiling bubbles form.
And that blood is praticaly salt water.

So quenching in blood IS better then normal water (for a certain set of steels) ?

>> No.42217643

>>42217148
plus microscopic amounts of iron. Bonus?

>> No.42218426
File: 293 KB, 1024x1024, 1437409454884.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42218426

>>42217148
>blood is practically salt water

>> No.42218499

So we take our Blood Sword, quench it in blood, hammer it out with a Blood Hammer, while eating nothing but blood for the entire duration of making the sword.

Hows that for magic inducing effects.

>> No.42218584

>>42218499
Almost enough blood for it to become a weapon in Bloodborne.
Probably needs the word blood in its description a few more times before it's appropriate though.

>> No.42218688

>>42218584
Bloodied bloodforged bloodblade of bleeding

Also, a guy with a selfie stick isnt a tricycle, captcha, im drunk and even i know this.

>> No.42218699

>>42197571
I need to find links to more of traditional forging techniques, (and not just Japanese) this was fascinating to watch! anyone have more links to similar stuff?

>> No.42219060

>>42208326
>weapons and armor made from this dull grey metal are treated as master-crafted and weigh 1/2 their weight, also any spell targeting an item made of aluminum or a person wearing aluminum armor automatically fails.
You'll have to make a reason why everyone with enough money isn't wearing light aluminum armor. Magic Immunity is fucking powerful and every king, noble and priest would want it.
World wars would be fought over aluminum mines and sundering aluminum armor would be a capital crime. Aluminum would be considered, in setting, the best metal above even platinum, gold, adamantine and mithril.
Think about how it affects the setting before designing stuff, specially something like special materials.

>> No.42219197

>>42219060
>You'll have to make a reason why everyone with enough money isn't wearing light aluminum armor.
part of that is simply few know how to pull the metal from the clay. Just getting an aluminum bloom is an art requiring a powerful wizard apply constant lightning-based spells to a solution to draw it out, a technique that makes each ingot of aluminum more valuable than gold, and its an art that is all but lost. what few examples of aluminum armor and weapons that remains are relics from those days before the process was lost.

>> No.42219668

>>42219060
I don't think it would necessarily be that valuable. If it imparted immortality THEN it would be that sought after but people wouldn't go world war crazy for it. Plus it may make you immune to magic but it doesn't make you immune to having a boulder magically dropped on your head.

>> No.42219735

>>42219668
also it has the glaring downside that positive spells like bulls strength or even Cure moderate wounds would require the person remove the aluminum armor before these could be cast on them, a rather precarious situation in heated combat.

>> No.42219821

>>42219735
It would also probably just lead to all magic users to becoming saavy to it and just opening up with work-around magics instead of trying to cast hexes or anything of that sort. Use magic to make a hole under them then bury them, light whatever building they are in on fire (you can block the fireball but you can't block the heat), drop a tree on them, shoot them into the air with a gust of wind...

>> No.42219931

>>42201168
Oh yeah, we did that too. The six-million jews were powering a blood ritual to blot out the sun forever.

>> No.42220348

>>42201338
>>42201813
>>42202133
>>42203091

And now I have a plot hook for both my D&D group and my WoD group.

>Mysterious swords that lasted the test of time and the sole representatives of the lives, hopes, and dreams of their long-dead iron donors whose culture has vanished into antiquity.

Captcha loves cabbage today.
>Quench blade into cabbage, wat happens?

>> No.42220374

>>42215997
>>42216116

Notorious for masturbating in combat due to thoughts of combat.

>> No.42222230

>>42198417
Well try to imagine what was the guy who discovered that cow milk can be used for human consumption was thinking when he discovered that.

>> No.42222797
File: 161 KB, 480x360, wizzard.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
42222797

>>42194510

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