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/tg/ - Traditional Games


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>> No.42160888

>>42160824
What's the context of this, anyway?

>> No.42160924

>>42160888
Two gnomish brothers facing off against one another!

>> No.42160932

>>42160888
I have to answer trips.
It's a psychic duel. The iconic mesmer and bard are currently in a psychic duel instigated by the mesmer who has changed the mindscape to have his laughing image all over the place. In real life they're just staring blankly at each other.

>> No.42160947

>>42160888
The one on the left represents JJ.
The one on the right represents the new guy at pazio.

>> No.42160953

>>42160824
Post the elf version of this.

>> No.42160966

>>42160924
>>42160888
>>42160824
>not posting the superior version

>> No.42160982

>>42160932
>The iconic mesmer and bard are currently in a psychic duel...

Poor, poor Bard. No psychic character is going to start a psychic duel unless they have all the stuff that guarantees they'll win it.

>> No.42160997

>>42160966
That's more like it.

>> No.42161020

>Aroden was a wizard when he was mortal
>Iomedae gained her powers from Aroden as a paladin
>takes Starstone test using Aroden-gifted powers
>got sponsored by Aroden to become mythic, not her own power
>becomes Aroden's buttslut-herald and gains further powers from him
>Aroden dies
>steals his worshipers
>steals his church
>Empyreal Lords invest her with the power to become a full deity
>Iomedae has never achieved anything of her own accord

Reminder that Iomedae got her job because she spent her time on her back and knees for a wizard.

>> No.42161048

>>42161020
Reminder that Norgorber needs to go and stay go.

>> No.42161092

>>42161020

You say this as if any of the D&D deities were any where close to good or interesting

>> No.42161097

NE cleric oinodaemon worshiper from last thread
what race/name do I give the fucker

>> No.42161114

>I will never get to play a Psychic Armory Gifted Blade Soulknife/Knight Chandler Mystic gestalt
Let me sleep forevermore.

>> No.42161304

>>42161114
>I will never get to play.
>If I do get to play, I'll never get to play an young noble Artisan kitsune who funds the party via Downtime shenanigans.

>> No.42161327

>>42160982
When was the last time you read a Marvel comic?

>> No.42161343

>>42161097
Obviously you should play as a Tiefling with the Daemon ancestry.

Name?

Sylas Balthazar.

>> No.42161368

>>42161327
God, Doom wanking is the absolute worst

>> No.42161410

Okay, word from the skype group for the Gestalt Godling campaign.

Currently we've 3 groups filling out.

Team Order
Team Switzerland
Team Chaos

At present Chaos may absorb Switzerland and become one larger group.

I am slated to run all 3 on different days, but I would greatly appreciate anyone who can DM for one of the groups.
We've a comprehensive houserule guide and pretty much everything is on the cards.

If I get more DMs I may be able to run at different times.

I may also move one group to earlier in the day for all you GMT types.

So currently one group is at 1am GMT, another may be on 8pm GMT.

https://app.roll20.net/lfg/listing/30707/face-the-truth

This should be the game listing, post in the thread to get into the chat.

I don't even know anymore, Roll20's UI is so bad.

I'm just lucky that the groups are more or less organising themselves.

My own hubris is becoming my downfall...

Pic related: It's what I wish I had to soothe my nerves.

>> No.42161438

>>42161327
The X-Men clearly don't read any char-op boards.

>> No.42161443

>>42160924
> gnomish

>> No.42161472

If you have Initiator's Soul and an Initiator Class, do you have to separate what's readied where and the max levels currently available to each 'side'?

>> No.42161491 [DELETED] 

>>42160888
Mesmerist just like to troll around. Like throwing possessing antipaladin and throw him at other evil guy.

>> No.42161514

>>42161472
Yes.

>> No.42161525

>>42160888
I'm more curious about the context of this picture. Why is he posessing Antipaladin? Did he just throw antipaladin into the den of greater evil?

>> No.42161541

>>42161491
>Vampire
>Aboleth
>Glabrezu
>Antipaladin

What the fuck is going on here?

What is this? The fucking Injustice league?

>> No.42161557

>>42161525
The real question here is, how the heck did Antipaladin botch that roll? Antipaladins' one evil claim to fame is their fantastic saves.

>> No.42161565

Where would an antipaladin rank on the tiers?

>> No.42161585

>>42161557
He rolled a 1.

>> No.42161596

>>42161585
Serves him right for forcing the paladin to fall... When it wasn't even his castle!

>> No.42161642

Reminder that Hell's Vengeance features forcing a faggy Bard to tears in the first book.

>> No.42161724

How does a natural weapon barbarian stack up to a normal 2-hander barbarian?
Is the damage worth investing in rage powers and an amulet of mighty fists?
Is the damage even better to begin with?
For all intents and purpose let's pretend greater beast totem doesn't exist either, since the barbarian in question probably won't make it to a high enough level to take it.

>> No.42161787

>>42161443
Shit, Lemme is a Halfling.
The hat on his evil brother is like the hat on the Summoner, I got all kerfuffled.

>> No.42161801

>>42161525
>MEANWHILE... AT THE LEGION OF DOOM!

>> No.42161805

>>42161724
Why not a natural weapon and 2-hander barbarian?

>> No.42161828

>>42161525
turns out the aboleth is possessing all of them

>> No.42161843

>>42161514
Understood. However, Initiator's soul uses your initiator level, not class level, so it will have access to the higher grade disciplines for its (albeit limited) stock, up to 6th, correct?

>> No.42161858

>>42161805
Because beast totem gives you claws, and there's no way i'll buy a magical weapon AND an amulet of mighty fists just to get an extra bite at -5.

>> No.42162056

>just read the Downtime guide for the first time

Holy shit, I think it's time to revive an old planescape character of mine and become the multiverse's Scarface.

>> No.42162134

Okay /pfg/, so: I have the group together for The Emerald Spire. Mostly.

To note: modifications have been made to the module. Fort Inevitable has been renamed to Crossroad Glen; it's being characterized as a frontier town founded to help solidify a trade route. Unfortunately, the route is infested with bandits, savage humanoids, and wretched abominations from the Spire itself. As a result, the parent kingdom has, in its desperation to keep the route secure, enlisted the Black Thorn Knights to hold it. This hasn't worked out well either - the Knights are under-manned and dealing with elements in Crossroad Glen that object to their diabolism. They're not trying to take over the city, but given their large military presence and writ of law enforcement, literally the only thing keeping them from doing so is the fact that their commander refuses to. Her underlings do not necessarily agree, and she's aware that there are plots against her.

Our intrepid heroes are:

- A peri-blooded Aasimar Warder who is N-aligned because unfortunately he inherited the FIRE, FIRE EVERYWHERE genes instead of the JUSTIIIICE ones. Kicked out of his home town militia (and eventually the town) for vigilante activities, he's come to Crossroad Glen looking for mercenary work.

- A Blue Psion (Nomad); his tribe has an uneasy truce with Crossroad Glen that is based entirely around the phrase "LOOK WE'RE NOT ACTUALLY GOBLINS". The son of the tribe's diplomat, he wants to bring order to the region so that the Black Thorns can be encouraged to leave.

- Mystery. Third player does not have a concept.

Any suggestions on what to guide the new player towards? Healbot needed or suggested? Should also note that I'm stripping and replacing:

- Level 4
- Level 5
- Levels 6 & 7
- Level 15
- Level 16
- The entire fucking plot progression, jesus god damn christ.

>> No.42162155

So...any 1pp bard PrCs any good or do I need to go 3pp?

>> No.42162163

>>42161642
>faggy bard
What does his sexual preference have to do with anything?

>> No.42162183

>>42162163
Welcome to Paizo products.

>> No.42162202

>>42162163
Come on, anon. You didn't think Paizo was going to write an evil AP without having a gay man being victimized, did you?

>> No.42162212

>>42162163
>What does his sexual preference have to do with anything?
I ask that myself every time an NPC whose entire background is their sexual preference shows up.

>> No.42162215

>>42162134
>Level 4
Nerd, everyone needs a water level. Put that shit back.

>> No.42162217

I asked about this last thread, but people responded before I could post the second part. That was my fault. Let me try again with a quicker follow-up.

I have joined a Dreamscarred + Drop Dead Studios gestalt game with a very daunting and long list of character creation guidelines and house rules. The GM did not type this up. I had to manually interview the GM and note down everything. Pathfinder, even with DSP + DDS, is not appropriate at all for the kind of campaign and setting this GM wants to run, but the GM really likes DSP + DDS and cannot be convinced to use another system.

What interesting gestalt builds could I play with these? The other player is undecided on their own build.

>two players (including me), one GM
>game takes place in a homebrew world's largest city, a city-state of millions
>world's tech-level is mid-Victorian and has mid-Victorian aesthetic, but firearms technology lags enough behind that the rule is only "Emerging Guns" (changed since last time I asked)
>game is going to be about politics in high society (you have to play a noble or high-ranking retainer), cloak and dagger intrigue, and badass fights
>only creatures in the world are humans, aasimar (seven aasimar types = seven gods' bloodlines), and tieflings (eleven tiefling types = eleven gods' bloodlines), animals, Conjuration talent companions, and anything from class features, nothing else
>aasimar and tieflings use elf aging tables, vast majority are nobility or royalty, and vast majority of nobility and royalty are aasimar and tieflings
>aasimar and tiefling random ability tables are not used

>all Paizo + all Drop Dead Studios (especially Spheres of Power) + Dreamscarred Akashic Mysteries + Dreamscarred Path of War + Dreamscarred Psionics
>level 3 gestalt, but might make it to level 20 if the game goes long enough, maybe even mythic
>track magic talents, caster level, and spell points for each gestalt side separately
>PCs are the only gestalt characters in the world

(Cont.)

>> No.42162234

>>42162217

>30 point buy
>2 traits
>Craft and Profession are not skills and are instead purely fiated without stats or rolls, but you still need to take Craft for Shattered Mirror
>Unchained classes and Unchained rules for removing alignment (loyalties and subjective morality)

>automatic bonus progression, only non-artifact magic items in the world are Bags of Holding
>mundane items (even masterwork) are basically free, but no alchemical items beyond the core rulebook, Advanced Player's Guide, and Ultimate Equipment
>no classes with a d6 for HD exist in this world (experts instead of commoners), armorists and soulknives do not exist either because of automatic bonus progression
>HP per level: d8 HD = 8, d10 HD = 9, d12 HD = 10

>anyone with at least 3 levels in PC classes gets fast healing 1 out of combat as a supernatural ability
>can convert any initiator class/archetype into Charisma-based, go ahead and play Charbinger
>Death sphere must have Necromantic Limit (Ghost Strike only) drawback
>must convert any spellcasting into Spheres of Power casting
>must trade in Favored Enemy and Favored Terrain with archetypes because of limited creature types and terrain types
>aegis trades in bonus to Craftsman and Master Craftsman with bonus feat (any) at 3rd level
>no masterwork tools other than the ones listed

>tl;dr = Basically every fight is against tier 3 builds

The first thing that comes to mind is a fey adept (Seelie Disciple + Unseelie disciple, yes, they are compatible)|Unchained rogue (Charlatan + Hidden Blade + True Professional). That gets me Dex attacks, Sneak Attack, maneuvers, and High Casting.

I think I can hit 35 with Rumormonger and Versatile Performance (sing) too:

15 Magnum Opus
+4 Charisma modifier
+3 ranks
+3 class skill
+2 trait
+3 Skill Focus
+2 racial (azata-blooded)
+2 Prodigy
+1 True Professional
Total: 35

Then I can take Persuasive Performer so I can use Perform (sing) for Bluff, Diplomacy, AND Sense Motive, as if I was some lovable idol.

>> No.42162261

>>42162134
>Getting rid of Level 4
Fuck that, let them sink-or-swim Gareth.
And as for guiding, I'd say that you should show them the Vitalist or the Druid, since both are fairly easy to understand overall. If you want to let the new guy play with power, show him the Arcanist with the White Mage archetype for the ultimate in "fuck you, I cast all the spells".

>> No.42162265

>>42162234
>The first thing that comes to mind
Shit
Here are some better ones.

>Fighter/Cavalier
>Fighter/Gunslinger
>Fighter/Monk
>Fighter/Ninja
>Fighter/Rogue
>Fighter/Samurai
There you go.

>> No.42162267

>>42160966
>not posting the classic version

>> No.42162352

>>42162202
I assumed they'd have enough brains to realise that the gender you like to stick it in (or get stuck by) has nothing to do with alignment.

>> No.42162389

>>42162352
Oh, my sweet, innocent summer child. You know nothing of Paizo.

>> No.42162391

>>42162352
Fun Paizo facts:
Most humans on Golarion is Bisexual.
The Goddess of Lesbians is CG.
Any form of (Sexual) Bigotry is EVIL.

>> No.42162439

>>42161114
Too bad Armory isn't compatible with Discipline Blade Shapes because Chris hates fun.

>> No.42162457

>>42162391
....there's a specific goddess of lesbians?

>> No.42162465

>>42162352
Oh wow, you must not read much from Paizo outside the core book, do you?

Yeah, it's a proven fact that no one in Golarion who is gay/bi/trans is Evil, they're all Good with a capitol G and always always Chaotic.

But be careful, if you hold any view about sexuality beyond open acceptance that makes you Evil and a monster.

>>42162391
Which goddess is the goddess of lesbians? Aren't all of them gay? Like, every goddess they've created is a lesbian?

Even if they weren't, if your not even open to the idea of banging your own gender, that would make you Evil according to Paizo.

>> No.42162469

>>42162457
Milani, a.k.a. JJ's waifu.

>tfw they even shoehorned her into Kurgess' divine relationships

>> No.42162487

>>42162469
How'd they manage that?
>Milani, an obscure, minor goddess of freedom
>Features in APs more often than Cayden Calian, a core, major god of freedom

>> No.42162494

>>42162265
What does fighter have to do with anything?

>> No.42162496

>>42161843
Initiator's soul IL is aegis levels plus half other levels. As you can change maneuvers with reconfigure (ie not levelups), aegis4/something2 can get third level maneuvers, if that's what you are asking.
Also check out new Sleeping Goddess, it got a bit better. Particularly Soul Blade got much better IMO.

>> No.42162501

>>42162465
>Which goddess is the goddess of lesbians
See >>42162469

>> No.42162508

Just gonna point out that sexuality until fairly recently was all about who was top and who was bottom and fairly little to do with who was fucking who.

Without abrahamic influence it would have stayed thus.

There is no reason for all Paizo's queerbaiting other than ignorance.

>> No.42162531

>>42162487
>Less well known is that he finds common cause with the goddess Milani, who shares his rural origins and desire to protect those in need.

Apparently a quote from Gods and Magic on the wiki.

>> No.42162533

>>42162134
Beware of vitalist. Level 20 vitalist in a party of 4 is fast healing 1200, divided among the party as he sees fit, for ~20 rounds per day.

>> No.42162537

>>42162501
So every goddess in the core pantheon is either gay or a total whore except Iomedea and we all know that Paizo hates her.

This is why Brigh is the best goddess.
Also Casandalee.

>> No.42162545

>>42162537
>worshipping a toaster

>> No.42162549

>>42162537
Erastil is not gay.

When he sees another male Elk he protects his harem.

>> No.42162568

>>42162549
>Erastil
>a goddess

>> No.42162572

Fellow GMs, how in-depth do you get when putting in humanoid bad guys, do you build them just like you would a character or do you pull stats out of thin air? Also, I'm mainly talking about minor threats, not the big bad of the dungeon.

>> No.42162578

>>42162568
Reading is not important to the clergy of Erastil.

>> No.42162581

>>42162537
>Iomedae
>Not a total whore

Pick one.

>> No.42162585

>>42162549
I said Goddess.
We all know Erestil is an upstanding model of masculinity and male virility, that's why Paizo hates him and symbolically emasculated him in print.
>Erastil
>A Goddess
>Ara~arastil returns.

>>42162578
They don't hold with 'book-learning'.

>> No.42162588

>>42162572
Use the examples in the back of the Gamemastery guide or NPC Codex.

Pic not related, since he doesn't have official stats yet.

>> No.42162590

>>42162568
>Not worshipping Ara~ara-stil

>> No.42162592

>>42162261
Guys, level five is the water. And it's boring as fuck.

>> No.42162593

>>42162537
>>42162549
>>42162568
All Good Pantheon are require to be pansexual :3c

>> No.42162599

>>42162592
>Not a slippin-slide with angry water elementals.
Brah.

>> No.42162609

>>42162572
I get basic stats though I generally glaze over equipment and magic items unless there's something specific.

On the other hand, big bosses and main villains get everything, right down to favored class bonuses and traits.

>> No.42162620

>>42162593
>>42162590
>>42162585
>Ara~Arastil
What is this and is it sexy?

>> No.42162651

>>42162620
Don't go down the rabbit hole, anon.

>> No.42162653

>>42162620
Erastil's MILFy wife. Believes in family values, keeping a good home and supporting her husband. The most godly of all housewives.

Her clergy act as matchmakers and often take it upon themselves to remove some of the mystery and anxiety young men may have about sex. They even marry some of those men if they seem hesitant to settle down and turn them into dutiful husbands.

And of course, since she's married to Erastil, she's also got a big rack.

>> No.42162658

>>42162572
>>42162588
I guess I have gotten a bit more involved since I bought PoW.

I sometimes get a player who's memorized the Bestiary or NPC Codex, so I have to make adjustments. Before I moved, they knew that wouldn't work when I started adding converted wereshark templates to giant octopi.

File related. It's still CR 4, so a 7th level Paladin shouldn't have a problem with two of these.

>> No.42162661

>only human in the party
>blew my two Level 1 feats on Alertness and Iron Will
>Brawler
>haven't reached Level 3 yet

I screwed up, didn't I?

>> No.42162662

>>42162593
Erastil is straight as an arrow.

>> No.42162664

>>42162620

>> No.42162673

>>42162653
>MILF clergy you can fuck

YES SIGN ME UP

>> No.42162701

>>42161525
Is it actually possession? Looks to me like the gnome / halfling / whatever the fuck the shortstack is is invisible and hanging on anti-paladin's back.

>> No.42162744

>>42162673
You better out a ring on it first or you're not getting anything.

Ara-arastil
LG Goddess of Housekeeping, Wives, Families and Femininity
Domains: Charm, Community, Good, Law, Protection
Subdomains: Archon, Family, Home, Love, Loyalty, Purity
Favored Weapon: Longbow

>> No.42162760

>>42162744
Oh God, could you imagine the shitstorm if this got traction on the Paizo forums?

>> No.42162769

>>42162760
It won't. It's the Paizo forums, after all.

>> No.42162770

>>42161410
Honestly, from my perspective as a fellow GM, I think you're in over your head when you volunteered to run one game on a whim and now have ended up running three.

If nobody else steps up, I think you should consider dropping two of the games so you don't become overwhelmed.

For the other two, just make one of the players in each group run it, and have the character they rolled up be a DMPC.

>> No.42162781

>>42162496
That's half of other levels in non-initiator classes. Anon was asking about Initiator Soul and an initiator class. These, as well as most if not all of the archetype initiators, cleanly state that they are full initiator levels.

>> No.42162785

>>42162744
>You better out a ring on it first or you're not getting anything.

What if I just want to make a donation?

>> No.42162797

Alright, question:

I'm looking at the mastermind archetype for Investigators, and I'm liking their Impregnable Mind ability (immunity to any divination effect that allows a save, as well as any thought reading attempts unless the originator of that ability speaks ALL of the investigator's languages).

What's the most obscure, off the wall language I could learn to abuse that ability? Bonus points if it has a written form so I can encode the paperwork of my criminal enterprise.

>> No.42162798

>>42162581
Oh come now.
People have to want to have sex with it for it to be a whore.

That's just a bunch of trumpets.

>> No.42162834

>>42162785
You're going to have to find a lone priestess or maybe a fringe follower. The ladies of Ara~arastil's clergy are very particular and always look out for husband material for one of the single ladies/young widows they take in.

Of course, I'm sure you'd be able to find a wandering Cleric who would take it upon herself to make sure you'll be fully prepared to fulfill your masculine duties to your future wife. She'll want to make sure you're well-versed in a woman's body, it is her sacred duty after all.

>> No.42162837

>>42162744
>favored weapon: longbow
Screw that. Seriously. Fuck that.

She protects the home.
Favored Weapon: Bombards

>> No.42162843

>>42162837
She's got big cannonballs.

>> No.42162847

>>42162744
>Longbow
I feel like as a housewife, she should have something more similar to a broom or frying pan. A halberd or an axe, maybe?

>> No.42162851

>>42162843
Teach the children teamwork: rain down iron thunder on those who would assault your husband's home today!

>> No.42162855

>>42162834
But those two details don't reconcile. How can a church of women be obligated to teach men about sex, but only engage with it after marriage.

I mean, I guess they could lecture?

But seriously, Christmas Caek cleric to go on adventures with and cuddle after a long day of dungeon crawling is top-tier.

>> No.42162857

>>42162744
>>42162834
Her clerics sometimes multiclass as diviners or rogues to acquire information on potential husbands.

>> No.42162863

>>42162496
>>42161843

>As you can change maneuvers with reconfigure (ie not levelups), aegis4/something2 can get third level maneuvers, if that's what you are asking.

Is there any solid word on this?
I saw the question in the dreamscarred FAQ but it never got answered; I've talked to my GM about it but I don't think he'll be convinced unless there's official word.

>> No.42162870

>>42162857
The fact that her legs cut off at the knee bothers me, and I hope it bothers you now.

>> No.42162882

>>42162870
It bothers me now.

>> No.42162894

>>42162857
>>42162870
>>42162882
Or the brown isn't the inside of her coat and those aren't her legs but part of the robe's outer layer.

>> No.42162902

>>42162894
Shadows.

>> No.42162927

>>42162870
>>42162882

>> No.42162935

>>42162701
The image is from the spells section. considering all the other image are x character performing x action of the spell... It's either Posession, Psychic Asylum or Psychic Crush.

>> No.42162937

>>42162847
A versatile polearm such as a halbarde or glaive (naginata) would certainly be best suited to protecting the home... after they get past the rocket springdals

>>42162855
This does bear thinking over a little.

How about this:
The information gatherers and advice givers/matchmakers are acolytes or young clerics. They don't do the sex stuff, and they mostly counsel young people to turn things like young crushes, puppy-love, etc into a long-lasting relationship.

They're also the ones who get married - the Era/Ara god couple obviously wants no less from their own clergy after all. NTR is utterly taboo, but there's always young widowers, abandoned lovers, villages with a disparity in genders like say when orc raids hit a place while the men were sent to war,etc...

These young clerics will find someone, and are more than capable of turning the right one into a good and holy spouse.

It's the older clergy with tons of experience who do marital counseling, midwife work or 'teach and tame' the young (for those older clerics who've lost their husbands, etc).

>> No.42162950

>>42162863
The threads it was discussed on with the writers was more or less directly confirmed/explained-by-them at the time that yes, an aegis could do exactly that.

GITP thread: path of war expanded VI page 15 has a direct such conversation

>> No.42162951

>>42162937
>NTR is utterly taboo

And yet it's the main reason I visit.

>> No.42162962

Anyone got any good Magus builds? I'm thinking of doing Dervish Dancer with Bladebounds Archetype, but I'm looking at Hexcrafter and it seems tempting. Also I need to be the party face, and have built a guy with two feats dedicated to turning Linguistics into the Social checks.

>> No.42162980

>>42162234
>The first thing that comes to mind is a fey adept (Seelie Disciple + Unseelie disciple, yes, they are compatible)|Unchained rogue (Charlatan + Hidden Blade + True Professional). That gets me Dex attacks, Sneak Attack, maneuvers, and High Casting.

I think I have settled on this for a build.

I am stuck on disciplines and spheres though. Does anyone have any suggestions for disciplines for a Hidden Blade rogue and spheres for a fey adept at level 3?

>> No.42162982

>>42162962
Bladebound Hexcrafter with Dervish Dancer is a very good combination. Make sure you take Magical Lineage (Shocking Grasp).

Also, you're a Int/Dex class. Tell someone else to suck it up and play the party face, you're a borderline autistic sword savant.

>> No.42163015

>>42162950

Oh, no, I don't mean the ability to reconfigure maneuvers on the fly, I mean the fact that Aegis follows the 'highest level known' restriction of a full initiator rather than a partial one.
More specifically, this claim:
>aegis4/something2 can get third level maneuvers

>> No.42163065

>>42162982
You can only choose Blade Bound or Hexcrafter. Can you choose both? I mean, I'd like to not be the party face but we've already got an autistic kineticist, a Giblii Dr00id (He's pretty chill, riding a snail and shit), a Half Orc Pissant who died last session and myself who died last session. We're starting at 5. The Half Orc wants to become either another Kineticist or a Fighter.

>> No.42163169

>>42160966

>> No.42163195

>>42163015
Aegis does not use the "archetypes maneuver" progression table.
They ONLY state that max maneuvers learned this way are 6th (7th+ requires advanced learning).

This means both that you get 6th at what, level 11 or 12, and that, though you need the feat to get higher level, you learn them the way full initiators do.

>> No.42163212

>>42163065
Hexcrafter expands your choices for Magus Arcana. Bladebound takes away your first one to give you a Black Blade. I think they're compatible, but ask your DM.

Tell your Half-Orc to take a look at the Warlord class. It's like Fighter+, with many Cha-based abilities making it a servicable face. A Magus just doesn't have the resources to be a party face.

>> No.42163228

>>42163195
That's what I figured, but when I noticed that myself as a player, I assumed it was a wording oversight and not RAI, so it might be a bit hard to convince my GM.

>> No.42163239

>>42162620

>> No.42163264

>>42163228
Everywhere else states they use the archetype table instead.
Aegis isn't even an archetype anyways.
And it does not get to learn additional maneuvers in scaling fashion.

It can BUY more, but that's it.

>> No.42163268

>>42162653
>Her clergy act as matchmakers and often take it upon themselves to remove some of the mystery and anxiety young men may have about sex.

Coming of Age
Transmutation
Level: Qed 3
Components: V, S, XP (see text)
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: Touch
Target: One creature
Duration: Permanent
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
One of the most important roles of qedeshot and qedeshem is to provide an introduction to sexual experience prior to marriage, helping young people into their adult roles. Coming of age requires the target to be a virgin, a condition that will not be true at the spell’s conclusion.
When the qedeshot successfully completes the spell, the spell’s subject receives a permanent +1 bonus to one ability score of his choice.
XP Cost: Casting this spell costs the subject, not the caster, 500 XP.

>> No.42163361

>>42163268

>Casting Time: 10 minutes
Only 10 minutes of sex?

>Duration: Permanent
Dispellable, and can never be reapplied because the target is no longer a virgin?

Even for a +1 bonus to an ability score, no thanks.

>> No.42163390

Paizo, do this instead

>> No.42163428

>>42162962
Have you considered playing a skald instead?

>> No.42163434

>>42163212
Any advice as to what Hexes I should roll with as the Hexcrafter?

>> No.42163476

>>42163428
It's a tempting offer, but I don't know. We already have a dr00id doing a bit of buffing and nuking. It seems metal as fuck but I'm a bit apprehensive about playing buffers, as I've played them far too much before.

>> No.42163493

>>42163361
So house rule it as instantaneous, on the grounds that "Third Party designers and playtesters don't have the same level of system mastery"

>> No.42163502

>>42161410
Where IS the damn skype group?
I can't find who's hosting it anywhere!

>> No.42163506

>>42163212
Warlord isn't an option, because the DM doesn't allow 3rd party in his campaign. Though it would be nice.

>> No.42163519

>>42163502
You posted in the thread on the LFG listing?
I should be able to add you if you've put your skype down.

>> No.42163649

>>42162781
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/systems-and-use#TOC-Initiator-Level
>For example, a 7th-level stalker/5th-level warlord has an initiator level of 9th for determining the highest- level maneuvers he can take as a stalker. Subsequently, he can take 5th level stalker maneuvers. As a warlord, his initiator level would be 8th, allowing for 4th-level warlord maneuvers. These maneuvers are readied and performed separately.

>> No.42163779

>>42162217
>>42162234
>>42162980

Any ideas, anyone?

>> No.42163797

>>42163390
What in the actual fuck?

>> No.42163879

How would one go about recreating the Order of No Quarter in Pathfinder? I was thinking of using them as henchies for the BBEG of my upcoming campaign.
Plague Knight is obviously an Alchemist (or Alchemist/Cavalier if we want to keep the Knight part) but what about the rest?

>> No.42163896

>>42163779
I don't know spheres, but for disciplines I think Veiled Moon is a great fit for rogues and the flavor of the campaign.
Stick with either Mithral Current or Thrashing dragon for your main wrecking discipline in combat.
Thrashing dragon+thrashing dragon style feat guarantees you two attacks per standard action to maximise sneak attack, but for a rogue Mithral Current Style's ability to swift action feint might also be cool.

For the third discipline... not that sure.
Sleeping Goddess gives some cool utility (That mind reading strike sounds especially useful in a campaign like this, though you could just pick it up with advanced study since it has no prereqs), if all your enemies will be humanoid maybe tempest gale for all the ranged disarm attempts.
Golden Lion would help a rogue but it scales in usefulness with the number of party members you have, so since it's just two of you I'd be more in favor of giving it a pass.

>> No.42163898

>>42162744

As much as I love Ara~arastil, Old Deadeye has canonically been involved with Fandarra (http://www.pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Fandarra). Stone Giants and Dire Bears are their children. Make of that what you will.

>> No.42163903

Anyone got any images of Grey Gardeners, I need one for Hells Rebels.
Or just guys wearing face masks and hats.

>> No.42163916

>>42163879
I think each of them being a gestalt/multiclassed Cavalier/Something would work, then each can also have a more specific Order.

... Or y'know. They could just have their order be the Order of No Quarter...

What would the Cavalier Order of No Quarter look like?

>> No.42163963

>>42163903
Got you, fam.

>> No.42163968

>>42163963
10/10 You my nigga man.

>> No.42163987

>>42163896
How useful will Scarlet Throne be, if I Heirloom Weapon and finesse an estoc?

>> No.42164027

>>42163896
>>42163987

Actually, yes, I just realized that I do essentially have Sense Motive +20, so maybe Scarlet Throne and Zenith strikes should destroy enemies?

>> No.42164094

>>42163903
Do you have the AP already? Mind sharing?

>> No.42164133

>>42164027
That's a feasible option, but keep in mind that Zenith Strike doesn't multiply sneak attack, as far as I know.

If your GM says it does, then your sneak attacks can officially blow people up.

>> No.42164147

>>42163493
>house rule house rules

>> No.42164187

Has anyone found/made a Pathfinder conversion for the old 3.5 based Warcraft RPGs? The earlier parts of Warcraft had some cool lore to it so I wouldn't mind running a game in Vanilla/Burning Crusade era or even earlier.

>> No.42164217

>>42164133
Multiplied damage never affects Sneak Attack.

>> No.42164224

>>42164094
Can't yet, since I don't know how to scrub a pdf and they'd probably ban me from getting the rest.
But I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that Bazzy Thrune is hilariously fucking insane.
Spoiler, MASSIVE spoiler: He wants to become Cheliax, no, not as in the king, he Literally wants to become the land of Cheliax, so he's got Mephostophilise help to turn him into the land
They couldn't even let him just be normal evil inquisitor dude who is just nefariously doing his job. Jesus fuck

>> No.42164229

>>42163268
What's this from?

>> No.42164242

>>42164224
A FUCKING FISHER KING PLOT?! ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?

>> No.42164296

>>42163797
He wanted to be a dragon since he was little. That's why he kidnapped a princess doll and attract to gold and jewelry.

>> No.42164339

>>42164242
>>42164224
You realise what this means, right?

It means that the rebellion in Kintargo, and the conclusion that will send it into its own dimension? It's not even saving people in Cheliax. It's not rebellion against Cheliax (though we knew that already), it's literally a bunch of liberal arts students taking their toys and running the fuck away.

The entire rebellion is just so you can RUN AWAY.

>> No.42164344

>>42164224
Paizo now has its very first Otherkin, a Nation-kin at that.

>> No.42164345

>>42164242
To be fair its the opposite He wants to become Cheliax because it avoids either giving up his ties to the Asmodian church or Thrune, instead becoming the thing they both serve, in his mind. He's in the city because its secretly got an ancient temple to one of the whore queens in it, which contains a way to damage the river of souls.
You heart me, he wants to destroy the wheel of life itself, so he can become a Kingdom, somehow. Why does it always come down to saving the fucking world?
Also, I guess the Corrupted source of life in the area, where the wheel of all that is natural has broken explains all the San Fransisco Faggots about the place.

>> No.42164395

>>42164229
Testament, a D20 book by Green Ronin about biblical era mesopotamia. It's a spell for the Qedeshot class, who are temple dancers and sacred prostitutes.

>> No.42164400

>>42164224
What in the flying fuck? No, seriously wat

>> No.42164403

But yeah, Baztard Thrune is basically the most shamelessly unrealistic villain they've made so far.
He's like if Caligula had a kid with Judge Doom from Who Framed Roger Rabbit and that kid was raised from birth by Gobbles.
It's fucking shameless, Rovagug is a more well textured and complex villain and it would make no sense for this guy to survive in the ruthless, dog-eat-dog world of Chelish politics because he is fucking mental.

>> No.42164404

>>42164395
I knew what Qedeshot were, historically, but yeah, didn't know that book. Thanks.

>> No.42164414

>>42164339
It's literally Burning Man.

>> No.42164472

>>42164414
>Burning Man
He wanted to become Burn but managed only Kineticist?

>> No.42164505

>>42164345
Is he trying to become a Genius Loci?

>> No.42164516

>>42164472
No, I mean the whole "Lets just, like, make our OWN city, out in the desert/astral plane, and you can do anything you feel like!"

You could also compare it to Galt's Gulch, or Rapture, but I'm guessing Paizo hasn't put in either Glorious Captains of Industry or Greedy Exploitative Merchants in the AP.

>> No.42164527

Also, reading the FtM shit on Tim Curry NPC is just...fucking painful.
>Raised for years as a fiery and exuberant young lady thanks to the circumstances of his birth, Rexus discovered his future was far more moldable than he ever realized after meeting a Shelynite tutor who migrated between sexes as other people might migrate between nations. This insight led Rexus to a way of growing up he’d always coveted but never imagined possible. But while his parents embraced their newly revealed son, the news scandalized their stodgy social circles. With his old friends gone and even his physical safety threatened on occasion, Rexus formed new social circles from eclectic sources: musicians, servants, tutors, and even street urchins. He shuddered to see his new friends enduring on a daily basis the same insecurities to which he had only recently been exposed.

>>42164505
Pretty much.
Best part is, Abrogail sent him to the north because he's literally too weird for Thrune, at some point during the constant bacchanal that is being a Thrune she looked up from the Halfling she was currently pegging at the guy and went 'man, he is kinda creeping me out.' Before getting back to drinking 40,000 year old wine out of a devils dick.

>> No.42164545

>>42164403
>it would make no sense for this guy to survive in the ruthless, dog-eat-dog world of Chelish politics
I'm guessing he survived because it's bad policy to let people hurt a Thrune, but he's still enough of an embarrassment to his family that they shipped him off to that weird hippy commune so nobody has to deal with him.

>> No.42164563

Our minds can only handle so much bullshit though

>> No.42164567

>>42164344
>he doesn't identify as a principality

Come on DTG, what are you, Evil? Check your geosexual privilege.

>> No.42164578

Oh Lawd.
Lawdy-lawdy-LAWD.
Massive spoiler once more. Here's how they got around the fact that fighting Thrune is basically asking for your little revolution and pretty little city to get burned the fuck to the ground by Satan and his Satan-Soldiers.
In a city infested with secrets, one of Kintargo’s hidden truths stands above the rest, and its uncovering in the fourth adventure of Hell’s Rebels paves the way for the city’s freedom from Chelish rule. This secret, known only to Barzillai Thrune and a few of his closest allies at the onset of the Adventure Path, is this: Kintargo— and, indeed, all of the archduchy of Ravounel—was never officially part of the nation of Cheliax. Due to a clerical error that was never corrected when Taldor founded Cheliax, the archduchy of Ravounel remained an unofficial holding of the nation up until Cheliax plunged into chaos after Aroden’s death. Thrune redactors worked diligently to rewrite Cheliax’s history to serve the family’s needs, and in the case of Kintargo’s official status under Chelish rule, they did their job a little too well. When Queen Abrogail forged her agreement with Asmodeus regarding the rule of Cheliax, the contract was inherently flawed due to the unofficial nature of Ravounel under the Chelish flag. The nature of these flaws could allow those of keen intellects to leverage control of the entire archduchy of Ravounel away from Cheliax. This secret, destined to be discovered by the PCs at the end of “A Song of Silver,” plays a key role in the fifth adventure in this campaign, so until then, you should keep this truth hidden from your players.

Fucking, whoops, of course, no devil nor anyone who constantly deals with devils would ever double check this kind of thing or be very, very careful about the smallprint rite, because Lawful isa herpderp.
BUREAUCRACY SAVES THE DAY!

>> No.42164608

>>42164578
>Here's how they got around the fact that fighting Thrune is basically asking for your little revolution and pretty little city to get burned the fuck to the ground by Satan and his Satan-Soldiers.
Without allying with the Reclaimers, because Lawful people would kill your buzz. Also because, even though they keep pointing out that Adventure Paths don't change the canon world, they never use them to alter the status quo.

>> No.42164667

>>42164527
>FtM shit
Snickering transmuters and egoists. Laughing changelings.

>> No.42164692

>>42163434
Flight, Misfortune, Evil Eye seem like viable options. You probably don't want cackle because it takes up your full round attack.

>> No.42164724

What the fuck is happening? If the dude wants to become the land why won't he just bury himself? Certainly sounds vastly more efficient than unhinging the balances of the world.

>> No.42164777

>>42164578
This makes no fucking sense. They go to lengths to change history... but don't just fix the clerical error. Fucking. Retarded.

>> No.42164869

>> No.42164959 [SPOILER] 

>>42164724
This method makes him epic level.

>> No.42164992 [SPOILER] 

>>42164959

Well when you put it that way

>> No.42165010

>>42164959
>Bazzy Thrune merges himself with a mountain and comes to kick over the entire city as part of the last book
See, that'd be retarded, but it'd be an awesome kind of retarded, so they won't go there.

>> No.42165025 [SPOILER] 

>>42164992
>>42165010
Whether its male, female, humanoid, or landmass, power is beautiful.

>> No.42165045

>>42164527

>> No.42165059

>>42164869
That was a little horrifying.

But carrot-niggers can go to hell anyway.

>> No.42165264

>>42163065
Going to go out on a limb and assume you meant a Grippli druid

>> No.42165278

>>42164959
>rushmore golem
This is possibly the best fucking thing I've ever seen

>> No.42165312

>>42164578
Wait wait wait. Is this meaning that Kintargo technically still belongs to TALDOR? Because if so, fuck everything else, imperial reclamation agent campaign ahoy.

>> No.42165320

>>42165312
>Not Galt, the campaign
ERRYTHING IS SHIT.
Also, Book 5 has Cheliax actually aknowledge your claim by the look of it, from the summary.
That's the most intensely retarded part.

>> No.42165326

I remember hearing that Paizo's official stance on item creation feats is that an item you craft for yourself should factor into your WBL as its crafting price, not its base price. I want to show it to my DM, but I'm having trouble finding it. Can someone post it again?

>> No.42165397

>>42165320
I mean, I imagine Asmodeus just doesn't give a shit, and views this as their just rewards for being shit at contract-drafting. He most certainly saw it coming since before the ink dried.

If I ran this, I'd definitely have Kaltessa Iyis (the 20th-level cleric/diabolist of Mammon, from post-game Council of Thieves) show up in the neighborhood, terrifying every Thrunie by her mere presence because they know she outranks their whole empire.

And then she doesn't do anything. Just watches and takes notes on a brimstone-smelling clipboard. And when Bazzy dies, she just puts a big check mark on something and bamfs off back to Isger.

>> No.42165405

>>42165326
>you craft an item
>if you use it yourself, half its price in gold disappears from your pocket
Is this what your DM claims?

>> No.42165407

>>42165326
In the magic item section, it specifically says that if you have magic item crafting feats, you shoulder get 25%-50% extra WBL for things you can craft yourself, depending on how much in the way of feats you've burned for cash.

>> No.42165432

>>42165397
Fun fact.
Bazzy is actually working at the behest of one of the Dukes.
Mephistopheles, after all, he was created FROM the stuff of hell itself, Baz just asks him if they can work out the opposite ritual...and Mephistopheles who canonically hates all humanity and has nothing but contempt for them gave him that shit
It's like JJ is just lightly rubbing the tip of his cock against the face of canon, every time he makes a choice in this AP.

>> No.42165433

>>42165397
>Kaltessa Iyis (the 20th-level cleric/diabolist of Mammon, from post-game Council of Thieves)

[citation needed

>> No.42165455

>>42165405
No, he just wants to take a census of our character wealth because he thinks we're probably below what we should be, and I'm making a list of the value of all my items. If I'm going to list some of them at half-price, I'd like to have the source stating that is the correct way to do the calculation, so that he knows it's legit and not just me trying to make my character wealth look lower than it should be.

>>42165407
That wasn't the one I had in mind, but thanks. I actually found the specific FAQ entry I was looking for, and I might as well post it too, in case anyone else might want to see it.

>> No.42165497

>>42165407
Last paragraph and example sound retarded. Why would I pay for other PC's gear from my pocket when I already spent a feat and I'm happy to craft gear for them? Do they seriously think that if they put it into a book people will suddenly start taking more than one instance of crafting feat per party?

>> No.42165503

>>42163519
Actually I did as well but the only one I ever got a response from was adam.

>> No.42165508

>>42165433
[citation provided]

She's the most powerful Asmodean on canon Golarion, to my knowledge, and she doesn't hold a position in the Chelish church at all. She keeps a palace in Isger, and from there runs every cult of Mammon on the entire planet.

Crunch-wise, diabolist is one of the best choices for prestige class she could've made. Paizo's shit at building characters, but you don't need much optimization when you can call and bind any <18HD devil in one round.

>> No.42165564

>>42165508
>Strength 8
>Venerable age with no penalties
>Gate and Miracle prepared
Kaltessa is surprisingly well optimized for a canon character.

>> No.42165608

>>42165497
Since this is a team game anyways, wouldn't a far more reasonable way to do all this shit is like this:

>When initially creating a party of characters, for every item creation feat a single magic item of the appropriate may be obtained by each party-member at a 25% reduction in GP cost.

Clean and clear: you don't get 50% off all your shit at character creation, but every feat gets EVERYONE one item at 25% off.

This way you don't get someone with +2s everywhere while everyone else has +1s even though it cost him a single feat he's going to be retraining.

>> No.42165624

>>42165508
The Diabolist is kinda wasted on a cleric compared to a wizard though.

>> No.42165639

when making a magic item, can you use something that already exists, or does it have to be brand new?

Like, say you've got adamantine plate. That's probably all your money for a while. But can you later get it enchanted or did I just screw my wallet to an untimely demise?

>> No.42165659

>>42165639
you have to have an item (of masterwork quality, note) before you can enchant it. You can also add enchantments to already existing magical items, but that starts getting exorbitantly costly.

>> No.42165671

>>42165659
Masterwork not a problem, but as long as I can enchant it even if it's been through a few dungeons, it'll be alright.

>> No.42165700

>>42165671
then yes, you're fine.

that said, Adamantine plate armor is kind of a really bad investment. Extremely costly for very little benefit. you're better off just getting enchantments right off the bat.

An adamantine weapon, on the other hand? since that can go through stone like a knife through hot cliche, that's an excellent investment.

>> No.42165717

>>42165624
Eh, planar ally's only a bad option because PCs are so self-absorbed. Kaltessa'd be getting the half-off for "task strongly aligned with creature ethos" on pretty much anything she did, and her absurd Charisma check bonuses mean she'll always nab the Infernal Bargain price reduction as well. That drops the cost of binding an Apostate or Immolator devil for 20 days to 4500 gp, which she can literally fish out of her pockets at any given moment.

>> No.42165718

>>42165659
>but that starts getting exorbitantly costly

No moreso than what it would have cost to just get the fully enchanted version in the first place.

>> No.42165874

>>42161327

Was she in the middle of taking off her supersuit or something? What's with those useless flaps of cloth coming outta her bust?

>> No.42165890

>>42161525

That aboleth looks like it really wants to be somewhere else right now.

>> No.42165919

>>42161048

>Implying the God of Edge isn't the coolest cat you ever did see

>> No.42165934

>>42162935
That really makes no fucking sense, then.

If he'd been hanging off the Anti like friendly Elementals off your Assault, I could understand...

Either that or the antipaladin had picked up a few levels of Aegis and is using the Passenger system.

>> No.42165954

>>42161304

Anon, why aren't you applying for Downtime God's godling campaign? You know, the one with gestalt, downtime rules and *every* race and class on the table?

Play as the son of Daikitsu and talk it over with Downtime on what boon you get from your divine Kitsune mom: http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Daikitsu

>> No.42165976

>>42162798

The God of Dragons fucked her.

>> No.42165977

>>42165919
I can just imagine the pantheon minutes from now
>Guys. GUYS DID YOU SEE THAT?. GUYS!!! GUYS DID YOU SEE THAT? I GOT HIM FROM BEHIND LIKE, SLASH, AND LIKE SPLORCH AND SHIT! GUYS! SERIOUSLY GUYS, IT WAS FUCKING COOL! HE COULDN'T EVEN SEE MY FACE, I GOT IN THERE ALL MYSTERIOUS 'N STUFF. FEARSOME!

>tryhard
>why can't he just orbital-bless-cannon his followers like everybody else
>did he seriously commission a scarf that matches his swordhilt?

>> No.42165995

>>42165976
... And?

>> No.42166007

>>42165954
because it seems the few that initially made the skype chat for it have decided not to let anyone else in.

>>42165976
Oh come now, dragons will fuck anything, let alone 'anyone'. No one wanted to have sex with it, the dragon was just like, "lah dee dah, I'm flyin, flyin flyin... hey why am I approaching orgasm? WTF ARE YOU? .... Well no use wasting a good erection keep squeezin kay?"

>> No.42166101

>>42164224

Fucking Barney Thrune fucking everything up for the rest of us.

>> No.42166115

>>42164527

>Abrogail will never drink wine out of your dick

We better get the chance to waifu that crazy little shit in Hell's Vengeance.

>> No.42166117

>>42165954
Not him, but I only need one reason.
>Godling
Not happening.

>> No.42166190

>>42165995

Oh, I was just countering anon's claim that no one would fuck Iomedae when Apsu probably did.

>> No.42166230

>>42166190
While no one at paizo would ever agree with this; its entirely possible that Iomedae, being a motherfucking GOD, forced herself onto the dragon. You know, rape. Because yes, women CAN and DO rape men, and YES, it IS still rape.

>> No.42166289

Sorry to disrupt the flow of traffic here, but can one of you fine individuals direct me to the latest Pathfinder compilation torrent? I wish to update and check out this Hell's Rebels campaign.

>> No.42166299

Occult Bestiary and Horror Adventures: when?

>> No.42166348

>>42166289
Hell's Rebels isn't out yet, the only thing available is the player's guide which is free anyway.

>>42166299
Occult bestiary on september 2nd, horror adventures probably next year when strange aeons comes out.

>> No.42166424

I presume the Believer's Boon cannot be used to gain an Inquisition, right?

>> No.42166432

>>42166348
Thank you kindly.

>> No.42166565

>>42166348
Ah, I misread the release date. Would it be possible that someone could still direct me to the latest Pathfinder compilation torrent?

>> No.42166635

Does anybody have that crafting-based alchemist archetype? The one that can make wondrous items.

>> No.42166638

>>42166230

Apsu is potentially the original progenitor god, there is no way Iomedae could force herself onto him.

It was probably just a mutual exchange of ideas and fluids.

>> No.42166746

When crafting wondrous items, you can ignore most prerequisites except for the necessary crafting feat. Spells, being a certain race, being a certain class... But what about feat requirements besides the required crafting feat, like if an item requires a metamagic feat to craft?

>> No.42166765

>>42166746
Then they can be ignored too. you only need the magic item crafting feats points out.

>> No.42166882

>>42166765
Worth noting that this is not true for spell-completion, spell-trigger, and potions

>> No.42166979

I imagine shield bash is out, but when the Hand Cannon veil states you cannot attack with it in a round you've used other weapons in... Does this include Unarmed?

As in, can you still kick and punch if something got too close?

>> No.42167051

>>42164403
I'm trying to think of how to run this without needing a bottle of whiskey next to me every session. You could probably spin it to be about why monarchy/aristocracy is a bad form of government, since if you end up with someone bat-shit crazy like Caligula and Barzilai there's no way to legally remove them from power (depending on your system of government, of course).

>> No.42167054

Can a familiar retrain feats like a PC?

>> No.42167201

Someone needs to play Hell's Rebels on the Paizo fourms, subtly undermine the party so that Barney Thrune does indeed become a plot of land - then dig a hole in the new land, drop trousers, stick their dick in the hole, cast earthquake and yell out bout fucking Barney in the ass.

if questioned why, its your character's most prized fetish/fantasy - and he figured this was the only time he'd
get to fulfill it.

You'd get banned/have posts deleted but the devs/forumgoers responses that do leak through should be enough of a glimpse into the abject horror they are experiencing when subjected to someone else's magical realm than their own.

>> No.42167209

>>42167051
>And this, kids, is why royals only marrying other royals when they're already all related is really really bad, m'kaaay?

>> No.42167227

Related;
>For the purpose of effects related to number of Hit Dice, use the master’s total level in psionic classes.

Does this include effects such as gaining feats, or is the crystal doomed to never actually be capable of shooting anything by level 7 when it can?

>> No.42167243

>>42167209
spain.jpg

>> No.42167259

>>42164339
>it's literally a bunch of liberal arts students taking their toys and running the fuck away.

How long does the people of Kintargo actually expect to survive purely on subsistence agriculture and the nonexistent trade that comes with being in their own pocket dimension?

Are they even going to be in a pocket dimension? Was that confirmed in the leak? Because seriously imagine the poor people of the countryside working double-time in the fields because the preppy liberals in the city need more food.

>> No.42167266

>>42167201
nonononononono
You're close, but not quite there.

If questioned why, they need to check their privilege because this is your and your character's entire identity (also gender identity but paizo doesn't really get that there's more to personality than what they wish was in their pants which is never and can never be what they were born with)

>> No.42167291

>>42167243
Most of europe, honestly.
It was on a level nowadays only seen in buttfuck-nowhere Kansas where they try to "keep the blood pure" from all dem nigger, kook and redskin infested quadroons runnin around pretendin they real folk

>> No.42167306

>>42164545

>Kintargo is canonically a weird hippie commune in the middle of fucking nowhere, so much so that not even House Thrune particularly cares for it

The fact Kintargo isn't a big deal by any stretch of the imagination makes the rebellion less insulting, personally. At least it lets me know Paizo isn't trying to hype up San Francisco as some ultimate super-duchy that would be a severe blow to the evil hell-patriarchy should it leave.

On the flipside, I can't fucking wait for Hell's Vengeance, not only do you sound like Antipaladin-tier villains but it sounds like the crisis is serious enough that you're going to become big dick Heroes of the Empire by the end of it.

>> No.42167350

>>42167227
Nope, familiars don't gain feats from using their master's HD. Sorry, friend.

>>42167306
>thinking Hell's Vengeance won't end with the book suggesting the DM TPK the party in the final fight, because the good guys are always suppose to win

>> No.42167351

>>42167201
>>42167266

>Hell's Vengeance comes out
>Half the campaigns of it running on the Paizo forums are attempts at making it for good or neutral characters
>Also tries to subvert as many of the evil acts as possible
>Because they're problematic

I really can't wait to see the shitstorm that will erupt from Paizo releasing an official campaign for raw evil characters. Those people hugbox their safe spaces something fierce and I worry a proper ultra-evil campaign is the thing that might trigger them.

>> No.42167368

>>42167306
Would be a great time to test out a fiendbound marauder on a CG character.

>You have FAILED me for the last time, Admiral JayJay

>> No.42167384

>>42167306
>>42167351

To be honest, the Antipaladin's face gave me a thought:

I don't really want to play an adventure of Lawful Evil NO FUN ALLOWED dudes having a very serious war with the acceptable target Lawful Good crusaders as opposed to those precious Chaotic Good scamps from last time.

I want an evil AP about being chaotic evil saturday morning cartoon villains. This isn't about rape and torture or any of that stuff, it's about being a hilarious no-goodnik dicking over do-gooders in increasingly elaborate, fun ways.

>> No.42167409

>>42167351
If only it triggered them in the "high explosives, bits everywhere" way and not the tumbltard way.

>IT OFFENDS! I TRIGGER NOW! MUH AUTISMIMS! MUH AUTISMIMS! TRIGGERRRRRRRRE~ *BOOM*

>> No.42167412

>>42167384
>This isn't about rape and torture or any of that stuff, it's about being a hilarious no-goodnik dicking over do-gooders in increasingly elaborate, fun ways.

That is what Hell's Vengeance is, you literally make a gay bard cry and kick a dog in the first book.

>> No.42167414

>>42167351
Nah, the only evils that really triggers them are sexual violence and gender/race/sexuality issues. Paizo has already stated there will be no sexual violence, obvious or implied, in the AP.

>> No.42167439

>>42167384
>Isn't anybody going to ask why tying that damsel to the tracks - and yes it has to be a damsel, tying a guy or a dickgirl or a fake girl that was actually a guy and still is if you think about it - allows them to find this chest with some loot and that treasure map. What if they're not even interested in digging up?

>It's a volcano lair, Mark. The kineticists will be ALL OVER this here shit

>Uh, yeah about that. Speaking of kineticists and shit...

>> No.42167462

>>42167384
Now I want that too. Just ultra campy, CE villains fighting CG heroes. No bullshit, no politics, no legalities. Just fucking around.

>> No.42167465

>>42167414
ALL beg to differ.

(seriously though I half expect them to put guys getting pegged and raped in various ways in there and then claim we're being misogynists about 'mere dungeon dressing' when we point out that's no less horrible)

>> No.42167497

There's a second chapter of dungeon meshi out and it's amazing

>> No.42167502

>>42162572
Sometimes I cheat, like for a boss fight I had a sorceress that needed one more level to be able to shapeshift into a huge snake, but I let her do it because I thought it would be a cooler fight.

I say, if it makes the fight better and it wont kill the party do it.

>> No.42167529

Help

I can't stop seeing my character as a stat block. I want to play Halflings but the small weapon damage really gets on my nerves. I don't want to play races unless their stat bonuses match up or I just end up going human for the free bonus feat. I want to play cool sounding archetypes like a Spellslinger. I want to play Prestige classes but they're all horrible choices.

Is there some sort of middle ground of fun and relatively optimal?

>> No.42167562

>>42167462

It'd be fun, right? As the levels ramp up, you go from low-powered slapfights with scrappy well-meaning peasant lads to full on looney tunes-style escalating wars with bugs bunny-type heroes, all while getting bonus points for being a hilariously over-the-top super-villain and fucking around with people in creative ways.

>> No.42167577

>>42162572

I like to build the character so it feels like I'm playing a PC.

>> No.42167588

>>42167529
Two things. One, I find that many DMs are more than happy to let you take a +2 to any stat instead of the usual racial stats, because while races have stereotypes, they ARE varied, and sometimes a halfling is strong, or sometimes an elf is tough, and mechanics should NEVER impede flavour.

Second, this mindset often gives rise to being simply better at mechanics than the rest of your party, which runs the risk of outstripping them. Mitigate this by making it a challenge. Sure, maybe small weapon damage is terrible. So the challenge is to be the best small weapon damage dealer you can be.

>> No.42167622

>>42167351
You're not setting your expectations low enough
>They carry over their hells Rebel characters (Restarting at first of course since MUH APZ and MUH NEW CAMPAIGN, or starting at 20th and blasting through everything)
>They subvert every evil encounter
>They redeem the Queen (Bard bangs her)
>And JJ posts in the thread to approve.

>> No.42167637

>>42167414
>Paizo has already stated there will be no sexual violence, obvious or implied, in the AP.

Do you think that will stop them from putting a big fat disclaimer at the start of their campaign about what is and isn't appropriate for an evil campaign?

I'm fine with sexual violence being a no-go for the AP, anyway. You'd have to forcefully jam it in there and it'll feel all dry and unsatisfying.

>> No.42167646

>>42167622
Oh and the bard'll probably get pegged, since you know, she's evil and evil is in charge, him letting her do it proves to her that sometimes there can be love even in bad things, or something; PROGRESSIVE.

>> No.42167685

>>42167637
I still suspect it'll be there, in a form they consider "totally can't be sexual violence, men can't be violated" or the like.

>> No.42167694

Is Scribe Scroll a good choice for a Magus, assuming the party has no Wizard to do scroll shenanigans better but does have ample time for crafting items?

>> No.42167698

So.. Katana Expertise, from the PoW:E playtest, requires "Katana Proficiency". You can be proficient with a katana as a two-handed martial weapon, or as a one-handed exotic weapon. Is proficiency with all martial weapons enough to take Katana Expertise, or does that requirement mean I have to have the exotic proficiency?

>> No.42167699

Do Broken Blade Discipline weapons get +2 damage while in the stance, or only on strikes, or on strikes and boosts?

>> No.42167734

>>42167622
>And JJ posts in the thread to approve.

Anon, you can make aliases for yourself on the Paizo forums to use as characters for easier in-game conversation for their on-site campaigns.

JJ wouldn't post in the thread to approve, JJ would make an alias of Milani herself and post in the thread to approve.

>>42167698

Katana is an exotic weapon so I imagine you need to burn a feat for Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Katana)

>>42167699

+2 to all unarmed attacks, DSP recognized one of the big issues with unarmed is poor damage so they looked to boost it whenever they could, which includes a flat +2 bonus whenever you're fighting fisticuffs.

>> No.42167738

>>42167698
sounds like the latter.

>> No.42167747

>>42167698
>>42167699
DSP isn't Paizo, you can ask them questions and get answers earlier than half a year.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?420178-Pathfinder-Dreamscarred-Press-FAQ
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?423981-Dreamscarred-Press-Path-of-War-Expanded!-(Discussion-Thread-VI)

>> No.42167751

>>42167588

>One, I find that many DMs are more than happy to let you take a +2 to any stat instead of the usual racial stats, because while races have stereotypes, they ARE varied, and sometimes a halfling is strong, or sometimes an elf is tough, and mechanics should NEVER impede flavour.

+2 to any stat is a pretty fair trade off. I never thought about that.

>Mitigate this by making it a challenge. Sure, maybe small weapon damage is terrible. So the challenge is to be the best small weapon damage dealer you can be.

That actually sounds really fun when you put it that way. This actually opens up a lot of doors for me. Thanks for the advice!

>> No.42167757

>>42167698
Yes, it is. This was iirc answered in their faq. You cant use it one handed with the feat without EWP though

>> No.42167774

>>42167751
Lateral thinking to the rescue!

Sometimes you just need a different perspective.

>> No.42167785

>>42167694
Unless you have another crafter in the party, I'd almost always go for Craft Wondrous first. But Scribe Scroll isn't a bad choice, especially if you often find yourself wishing you had prepared some fairly situational spell.

>> No.42167795

>>42167751
>+2 to any stat is a pretty fair trade off. I never thought about that.

I mean, that's why humans and half-humans have that, to represent the fact that there's no real "baseline" human, they're all incredibly varied. So giving it to a non-human is basically just saying "I don't fit the stereotype of my race". In the RP system (flawed as it is), +2 to any stat, or +2 to two set stats and -2 to one set stat, cost the same, so it's more or less equal.

>> No.42167808

Folks, the reason I'm removing the water temple level is the puzzles are badly designed, it has three copies (literally) of the same boss fight, and frankly the plot involved is...boring. It's easier to replace than fix.

>> No.42167833

>>42167757
This was my understanding as well.

>> No.42167868

>>42167808
but but but hookshot
... okay FINE, but you gotta let'em have the Grappling Beam in Norfair, got it?

>> No.42167869

>>42167698
You need proficiency in the katana in some form or fashion (either martial or exotic) to be able to use it, basically. Yes, all martial weapons qualifies you so long as you're using the katana two-handed.

>>42167699
You get the damage bonus whenever you doing anything Broken Blade related. So if you're in a Broken Blade stance, or when using a Broken Blade maneuver.

>> No.42167878

>>42167785
I already have Craft Wondrous Item, actually. I'm trying to evaluate the Magus spell list for how many spells it has that are worth stuffing in scrolls though, which is the main thing that leaves me unsure about whether I should take it. We're getting into the higher levels and I'm starting to feel a little inadequate compared to the party's Oracle and Druid. It doesn't really feel like there's much that my character can do that someone else in the party couldn't do (aside from crafting items for everyone, I guess).

>> No.42167891

>>42167869
Right.
Time to hook the unarmed smashy discipline to my frickin armcannon

>> No.42167900

So I just found this. I think by RAW it lets you steal eidolons from other players or enemy summoners.

Am I right on that? because this seems like a great way to counter-betray the That Guy in my team who betrays us every game and is going to be playing a summoner this game.

>> No.42167909

>>42167637
>not wanting sexual violence of the BDSM variety with Abrogail
>not having her scream at you to leave her presence after you disagree, and be told the next day by the guards that she was screaming your name and expletives all night long in her private rooms

>> No.42167933

>>42167900
>that guy
>betrays us every game
>plays a summoner
I feel like I've played with the exact same asshole before, because he did the EXACT same thing all the time.

>> No.42167946

>>42167795

Yeah, I've always thought it was a little unfair that humans were one of the few races that were allowed to be varied while every other race had to be a walking stereotype.

>> No.42167964

>>42167909
>Not losing interest upon realizing every single one of her guards was also in her private rooms all night.

>> No.42167975

>>42167900
I see nothing in the Summoner's description that says you can't. The Eidolon is treated as a summoned creature except for it's interaction with Protection from X spells, Dispel Magic, and the fact that it goes to negative HP before being sent back.

>> No.42168001

>>42167933
Does he have this ridiculous belly laugh, a not-quite-mullet, and live in Calgary?

>>42167975
Thanks for the confirmation. I dislike being a nongood character, but this is too good to pass up.

>> No.42168028

>>42167891
Happy to help!

>> No.42168052

>>42167909
>Not getting in an argument mid-bondage session over the tightness of the ropes and how things are too vanilla, as she forces you onwards
>Not refusing to undo the knots as you teach her the value of raw teasing and sensual love as she curses you throughout her unwilling orgasms, threatening to do terrible things once you untie her.
>Not then shrugging and leaving her tied up for the maid to find in the morning, if she's not going to be open to something she's never tried before.
>The maid was never seen again outside your shared sex dungeon

>> No.42168075

>>42167964
>implying the lawful-as-fuck, uptight monarch will be whoring around like some chaotic-reincarnated-drow-bard slut
>not wanting to tsunderely hold hands with Abrogail as you execute the leaders of the Glorious Reclamation
>not wanting to be named Prince Consort, Duke of Cheliax, Para-Count, and Commander of the Armies of the Realm
>not being her darkest knight and greatest champion
What are you, anon? Some sort of Andoran faggot?

>> No.42168095

>>42167964
>Not personally ass fucking every one of her personal eunuch guard to establish dominance.

>> No.42168108

>>42167869
>Yes, all martial weapons qualifies you so long as you're using the katana two-handed.

Nice. I've got a young first-time player looking to play the Bleachiest character he can, and so far I've got an Aegis specializing in Mithral Current, but he wasn't happy having to use strength because "they're always so fast", so getting him Finesse on Katanas should assuage his concerns.

(Side note, what was the DSP dex-to-damage feat again?)

>> No.42168121

>>42168001
Nope, which actually makes it worse because that means there are more of them.

>> No.42168123

>>42168108
Deadly Agility.

>> No.42168150

>>42168075
>Implying she wouldn't get a shameless childish crush on you reach about level 8
>Implying she won't force you to spend time with her while basically revealing there's an actual 14 year old girl (Is she still 14 or was that retconned?) under all the EVIL
>Implying she won't then have you dragged to her room so she can mount you like a stallion.

>> No.42168157

>>42168028
I had literally no choice but to grab it weapon group adaptation anyways, since even Solar Wind isn't so much "discipline weapons" as utterly locked out: "Solar Wind maneuvers may only be performed with a weapon in the bow, crossbow or thrown weapon groups"

>> No.42168190

>>42168150

She's 16, so by Paizo standards she's legal.

I can never not see Abrogail as a Chelish Azula now, including the hilarious attempts at being flirty or sexy.

>> No.42168197

What do discipline weapons actually do, anyway? I see some maneuvers can only be done with discipline weapons, but others don't seem to care at all what you actually use.

>> No.42168242

>>42168150
>(Is she still 14 or was that retconned?)

She was I think 12 in 4607 and the dates do march onwards (though whether APs happen or not is left up in the air) with each year in real time, so she'd be 19-20 now.

>> No.42168247

>>42168123
Cute. Undercut mythic abilities much?

>> No.42168251

>>42168197
They're mostly for things like Discipline Focus (+2 to save DCs of one discipline, +2 to damage with discipline weapons).

>> No.42168269

>>42168247
It's something that should be included in fucking weapon proficiency. Not weapon finesse, proficiency.

5e was right.

>> No.42168283

>>42168197
If performing a maneuver with a save DC it's increased by +2 when doing it with a discipline weapon. If you have discipline focus, mores the better. Some disciplines have restrictions on some maneuvers or methods of combat due to it being impractical to use it other ways.

>> No.42168285

>>42168197
In most cases (solar wind need critical errata it looks like to actually work like it should?) you can do maneuvers with anything. However:

Some maneuvers can only be done with discipline weapons, and the discipline focus is a solid boost if using a discipline weapon: +2 damage on the weapon AND +2 DC to your maneuvers.

Not much use for some disciplines as there's many instances where you don't even give a save just a big fuck you (gods I love that) but incredible for others.

>> No.42168300

>>42168247
Just because it has the word mythic in it don't mean it ain't a shitty martial tax feat.

See: "Mythic Vital Strike"

>> No.42168317

>>42168269
Yes, because dex isn't already a god stat.

>> No.42168331

>>42168123
No real point to that being a Mythic ability honestly - Mythic Weapon Finesse should just be normal Weapon Finesse or as the anon in >>42168269 said, in the proficiency. I can't fix stupid, unfortunately. I can bandaid it at best. I think finesse weapons should always have it and that taking Weapon Finesse as a feat and applying it to a specific weapon, you could finesse whatever weapon you took it in. I allow that in my personal games and its never caused a problem with someone with a finessed scythe.

>> No.42168333

>>42168242
>>42168190
>>42168150

She's anywhere from 16-20 and has 16 levels in Sorcerer (2 in Aristocrat.)

To put this in perspective, the ancient Elven Queen Telandia Edasseril is a Wizard 13/Archmage 2, and Stavian III (Emperor of Taldor) is Aristocrat 8/Wizard 4.

Abrogail is young, ruthless, exceptionally powerful, and has a childish streak of petulance as wide as the Arch of Aroden. She has no lovers confirmed or implied, and her closest advisers are suggested to be mildly incompetent (except her Erinyes teacher, who was handpicked by Asmodeus himself to teach Abrogail.)

If Hell's Vengeance features her as an NPC in later levels, you can guarantee she might fancy one of the PCs.

>> No.42168413

>>42168283
>>42168331

Okay at this point I gotta ask, any chance of errata for solar wind?

In one place it includes firearms, and later on it says its bow/crossbow/thrown exclusive.

Furthermore the example given in Adaptation becomes erroneous: Even if you could make ranged attacks with a heavy blade, it would remain incompatible even with the feat, as the maneuvers are not allowed, flat out, as Solar Wind does not state "with discipline weapons" but flatly "bows, crossbows or thrown group"

Is there a reason it was written so differently from other disciplines on the same page, in terms of how it is allowed to operate or is restricted?

>> No.42168429

>>42168331
My issue is that you now have absolutely no reason to ever make a strength based character ever again. Why bother? Dex now gives damage, AC, initiative, and save benefits with a single feat.

the PF version exists as it does because there is Mythic Weapon Finesse - it buypasses thre other feats as a prerequisite.

>> No.42168436

>>42168247

Having played with a number of dex-to-damage characters at my table, I really don't get the people that go "ooooooooooh, you're not using strength! WTFBROKEN". Unchained rogues do it for free, and, uh, not really seeing why it has to be a fucking three-feat chain that can only apply to one specific weapon IF YOU HOLD NOTHING IN YOUR OTHER HAND for everyone else unless you have access to godly powers.

Deadly Agility's a much more elegantly designed feat than any of Paizo's stabs at it. Those guys love to tax unimportant bullshit and seem to think everyone has feats coming out of their ears.

And that the fighter, who DOES have feats coming out of his ears, somehow appreciates being punished for that by being forced to waste so many of them on stupid bullshit.

>> No.42168460

If we can just take a feat to get Dex to damage, where's my feats for Con to AC and Str to HP?

>> No.42168476

>>42168460
Actually, Con to natural armour is an interesting idea. I might take a look at that.

>> No.42168486

>>42168429

>2015
>Making big meaty brutes
>When you could be making superior lithe anime protagonists

>> No.42168488

>>42168429
It's amazing how quickly carrying capacity becomes an issue to people who dump strength unless the GM is retarded.

Even a mithral, magical armor is still gonna be 20-30lbs, your weapons easily 3-5 each... Even a handy haversack's a good 5.

>> No.42168494

>>42168460

I hear this all the time.

>If there's dex to damage, where's str to AC?

It's called Heavy Armor Proficiency, last I checked.

Con as a natural armor bonus might be interesting, though, and more STR-based skills than two that nobody uses would be nice.

>> No.42168499

>>42161020
Pretty sure Arazni was the buttslut. Iomedae's more of a trumpet blower.

>> No.42168505

>>42168488
what are muleback cords? What is the time scaling on Ant's Haul?

>> No.42168510

>>42168460
There's actually a Wis or Cha to HP in bloodforge. Now your Druid can truly be one stat!

>>42168494
Quite wrong, as Heavy Armor fucks your dex bonus to AC, making you MORE vulnerable at higher levels due to touch attacks and the like.

>> No.42168512

>>42168494
But but heavy armour doesn't add to touch!

>> No.42168525

>>42168488
>It's amazing how quickly carrying capacity becomes an issue to people who dump strength unless the GM is retarded.

>Oh no I dumped Strength, now surely I shall bear the brunt of my hubris to bump up Dex to 18
>Oh wait, I'll just buy a 1k magical item called "Muleback Cords" that bumps my Strength up to an effective 18

Using Carrying Capacity as a reason to have high strength is bad enough, but it's a moot argument to begin with since there are multiple VERY cheap ways to get around it anyway.

There is literally zero reason to have Strength now.

>> No.42168530

>>42162572
I usualy just give them a small stat block myself if they are a crunchy npc. AKA just there to be a combatant. They get saves, stats, any feats they need, ab, hp, ac and a weapon. You should be able to fit it on a notecard and just use multiple of the same creature, if they all use the same stats you can also just swap weapons on them.
I usually balance it around my players and what I feel is appropriate for them.

>> No.42168533

>>42168436
Really, I think DSP shouldn't bother claiming they're helping PF at all and just make their own OGL version from scratch at this point.

>> No.42168538

>>42162653
But Erastil's family is dead, Anon-sama. That's why he's so serious and alone.

>> No.42168548

>>42168525
Except for saving on Feats and better Power Attack damage.

>> No.42168550

>>42168510
The fact that heavy armour is shit at high levels is just as much a failing of the system as the fact that Dex can be a SAD stat. The platemailed knight, a core fantasy staple, is fucked and shat on.

>> No.42168552

>>42168505
>What is losing the cloak of you need this for your saves to a fucking item for carrying capacity

>> No.42168554

>>42168413
Stuff didn't get posted right. Firearms are fine with Solar Wind. Firearms, bows, thrown, and crossbow types. Siege weapons can die.

It was written differently because the ranged combat style's ricochets and volleys didn't translate well into melee combat when I was testing it myself. Thus I locked the restriction on it.

>>42168429 -> Check this anon >>42168436, they've got the right idea.

>> No.42168569

>>42168510
Just means everyone buys mithril breastplates now. More AC than heavy armor can provide and it doesn't slow you down, and dex to AC means it's actually better than full plate in every single way.

>> No.42168577

>>42168548
Yeah, but Pirhana Strike.

>>42168533
I can't tell you how into this I'd be, but they'd need to start releasing adventure modules first I think, to get a really solid takeoff.

>> No.42168578

>>42168525

Hi, shadows. And everything else that deals strength damage to morons who dumped their strength and gave up Cloaks of Resistance to carry their shit.

>> No.42168596

>>42168577
Piranha Strike sucks compared to Power Attack

>> No.42168602

>>42162653
>>42168538

Am I the only one who thinks Erastil would have been drastically improved if he had a wife? Like, they're both deities of nature but they focus on different aspects, with Erastil representing the Father and Ara~Ara~stil representing the Mother?

Shit, then you could have your cake and eat it too; Erastil is all about manly man things and being a proper husband, while his wife is all about being a proper woman.

>> No.42168608

>>42162760
Naw Paizo would probably just edit it from being Erestils wife to, it is Erestil in drag letting out his deep desire to cross dress and get bummed secretly.

>> No.42168615

>>42168533
Tempting but there is a lot of competition in the market place. Its definitely something we've talked about privately but I dunno if we're ever going to actually do it or not. That's... a huge investment and potential risk.

>> No.42168638

>>42168190
>She's 16
>Aristocrat 2 / Sorcerer 16
Sounds legit.

>> No.42168644

>>42168554
That still leaves your example off: What's wrong with a ricochet if you threw the zweihander? It's a supernatural discipline anyways, why can't there be more blade the way there is more shot in a volley?

Actually, siege weapons aside (easier to just state an exclusion against them) wouldn't mindbolts, ranged veils, Heavy Weapons ("SLOW" firing murders them at levels you can afford'em at, they deserve that boost or ricochet!) and I'm probably forgetting two or three categories of things that don't fit in?

>> No.42168664

>>42168602
You are the only one.

>> No.42168672

>>42168554
Sure, except as I said, it removes class abilities from two classes and removes any need for any strength based character. Urban Barbarian is the only useful barbarian build now, since you can use it to increase dex, you've made any kind of heavy armor obsolete because mithril breastplates are better than any heavy armor can be, dex increases everything across the board, and carrying capacity means nothing.

Might as well just remove strength as a stat altogether and make dex and con your only two physical stats.

I'm sure DSP will publish a feat that grants power attack bonuses with dex - if it isn't a martial path power you can spend a single feat on to learn now anyways.

>> No.42168678

>>42168578
>>42168552

>You'll lose your cloak, they say
>You'll have shitty saves, they say

You do realize most DMs would, without really thinking about it, allow a character to "modify" their Cloak so it takes up a slot they don't need? Or a Cloak of Resistance ain't even that useful when a Dex-build already covers Reflex saves and your others will be high enough (and supplemented by casters) to make that extra +2/+3 kind of useless?

Oh but sure, a Shade or something that saps strength can hurt you... Again, Muleback Cords give +8 to Strength, the enemy will have to sap you down to 3-4 Strength before you really feel those encumberance rules and really, by that time you're either dead anyway or the other guys are mopping up the threat.

It's a meaningless disadvantage, the problems with a Dex-build in this situation are absolutely trivial to overcome.

>> No.42168690

>>42168638
That would imply she's had a serious case of power-levelling in LESS than one year, because starting age for level 1 would minimum be 16.

So in between her 16th birthday and now when she's still 16, she's gained 17 character levels.

>> No.42168699

>>42168615
Considerign PF threads are now DSP worship threads, I doubt there's any risk at all.

>> No.42168702

STR build supremacy, now and forever.

>> No.42168707

>>42168577
Pirhana Strike only works with light weapons, not all finesseable weapons. Best you can do with it is a short sword.

>> No.42168725

>>42168602

Either that or we introduce an Ara~Ara goddess of a more classy, refined sort of civilization who is about happy communities but has different ideas than Erastil.

Old Deadeye respects the old girl immensely, but they have a long-standing argument about what is best in a community that gets in the way of their mutual desire to fuck each others' brains out and have a lot of kids.

>> No.42168730

>>42168690
>So in between her 16th birthday and now when she's still 16, she's gained 17 character levels.

Abrogail is serious business, she's either got god-tier genetics or her instructor is the best shit ever.

>> No.42168749

>>42168672
You're missing the point on something here though - there is no investment required to be effective at Strength. You get this automatically. You always get Strength to hit and damage, more if you two-hand. Dex requires feat investment to be base-line effective as Strength. If you're willing to buy into Weapon Finesse and Deadly Agility to be as baseline effective as Strength, then by all means do so. I don't consider this broken at all, actually.

>> No.42168753

>>42168578
Any stat draining monster is a threat because almost all of the real nasty monsters attack one or another stats through poison, magical attacks, or other power. That's like saying aboleths are a threat to barbarians because of the con damage they can inflict.

>> No.42168767

>>42168753

The difference is that every class has as much CON as they can afford.

People dump strength all the time and get fucking slaughtered by shadows and things that entangle because of it.

>> No.42168789

>>42168602
I said it before but I'll say it again.
I always imagine that Erastil did have a wife at some point but something got her, Rovagug or some other disaster of the gods.

And basically if you ever talk to Erastil, its like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJemDZcgIZE

>> No.42168799

>>42168749
Deadly Agility isn't as effective as STR. It doesn't 1.5x for Elven Curve Blade, or anything that gets two-handed (Katanas and spears/polearms through polearm dancer)

>> No.42168805

>>42165977
>>why can't he just orbital-bless-cannon his followers like everybody else

When will Iomedae become the True Sun Goddess and convert Daytime into Evil Destruction Time?

>> No.42168811

Help with no/extremely low magic settings? A friend and I are currently working on a homebrew setting after the last campaign was.. well someone rolled an Arcanist and that was that.

>game is pathfinder

Basically what we have is that the laylines were eaten by the BBEG and now there is next to no magic left in the world. Trying to balance this we're leaving:
>Occult
>Witch using Occult rules
>Bard w/ PoW maneuvers, better saves, and more skills instead of casting
>Alchemists & Investigators

Additionally, the plane is cut off from the multiverse and we're saying no divine magic, just straight up none.

Can anyone see problems with this so far?

>> No.42168821

>>42168749
It's not that it's broken, it's that it removes the ability from classes which have it as a class ability and renders most marital builds not based on dex pointless. It's giving minmaxers more to work with and taking away stuff from players who don't minmax.

You might not see that as a bad thing, but personally, I see it as trying to turn dex into the martial god-stat that int is for casters.

>> No.42168839

>>42168811

How do you heal? Everyone chugs potions?

>> No.42168850

>>42168429
>My issue is that you now have absolutely no reason to ever make a strength based character ever again.
How about x1.5 STR to damage and x1.5 power attack? Or two feats you could spend on something else?

>> No.42168853

>>42168767
>People dump strength all the time and get fucking slaughtered by shadows and things that entangle because of it.

I think the answer to this is simple.

Introduce a feat that adds your dex to Combat Maneuver checks.

>Implying DMs use Shadows "all the time."
>Implying Entangle isn't always a bitch to get out of, since that +4 to Strength checks isn't actually that useful against most DCs
>Implying a Dex-based fighter facing problems with Strength-sapping enemies isn't completely analogous to a Str-based fighter facing problems with Dexterity-sapping enemies, making you bringing that up completely useless since the situations are the same.
>Implying the situations are the same when there are more spells and enemies that fuck with Dexterity then there are strength, and since you've got an easy +8 from the Muleback Cords you got a buffer the Str-based does not.

>> No.42168856

>>42167414
That seems stupid since other aps straight up have sexual violence in npcs backstories.

>> No.42168865

>>42168811
The automatic bonus progression table can be used with no magic campaign to bolster the effectiveness of characters so you don't have to be as careful with the encounters you put them up against.

Witches and bards have healing, so you should be fine generally speaking.

>> No.42168868

>>42160824

Anyone has the Advanced Bestiary? I was wondering if its worth the money.

>> No.42168874

>>42167637
>You'd have to forcefully jam it in there and it'll feel all dry and unsatisfying.

>> No.42168889

>>42168725

>Either that or we introduce an Ara~Ara goddess of a more classy, refined sort of civilization who is about happy communities but has different ideas than Erastil.

You mean like Daikitsu?

>Fluffy tail and stag go at it.

>> No.42168890

>>42168850
Or you spend those two feats you saved and take two weapon fighting twice, and now do more damage than the power attacking fighter can.

>> No.42168914

>>42168052
God dammit some of you need to get laid.

>> No.42168931

>>42168853
>Introduce a feat that adds your dex to Combat Maneuver checks.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/agile-maneuvers-combat

They've already got one.

Therefore the only reason you would even want Strength is better Strength-based checks, which *never* happen in a campaign, or at least happen enough to matter.

>> No.42168937

>>42168602
Nope, he's definitely better alone. It makes him seem older. His wife died when humans still lived in caves, Anon.

>> No.42168940

>>42168914
This is a saturday afternoon in the end of summer.

There is not a single person currently on 4chan who does not need to get laid.

>> No.42168950

>>42166115
>Wanting Abrogail as a waifu
>Not Asmodeus
I want to make him re-think his position on mortals!

>> No.42168954

>>42168730
Clearly she went on a whirlwind AP.

>> No.42168957

>>42168853
That feat already exists (Agile Moves).

Also, under Performing Combat Manuvers:
>When you attempt to perform a combat maneuver, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus. Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects. These bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to perform the maneuver. The DC of this maneuver is your target's Combat Maneuver Defense. Combat maneuvers are attack rolls, so you must roll for concealment and take any other penalties that would normally apply to an attack roll.

>> No.42168961

>>42168940
I'm here because I got laid last night and she's still asleep. Otherwise we'd be at the lake.

>> No.42168971

>>42168678
Having low strength will expose you to sodomy by your stronger peers, Anon.

Do you want to get your bum plowed?

>> No.42168976

>>42168931

Well, that and "you know, I'm going to do more damage two-handed power attacking with this falchion without spending a buttload of feats on being able to use a rapier properly."

>> No.42169003

>>42168108
If he really wants to play the bleachiest of bleachiest characters I would suggest he take one level of titan fighter, and for a -2 to attack rolls he can now wield a large katana on top of all the other stuff and have fun with that.

>> No.42169010

>>42168821
Bro, I honestly have to say that you're being paranoid.

Dex is a nice stat, yes. But Deadly Agility doesn't exist to obviate Strength; indeed, the two-feat cost is still pretty fucking painful. It's there to enable classic archetypes that are otherwise wholly unsupported by Pathfinder.

It takes precisely no investment to make Strength work, and then the resources you put in (Power attack, rage, etc) make it even better. You have to buy in two feats to make Dex work /less/ efficiently than Strength, and then you finally start seeing a return on additional resources.

D. Agi has been out for more than a year, and we still haven't seen Strength builds vanish or Dex builds breaking the bounds of acceptability. If you think you've found something the community's missed, then please, come forward with it. We're always listening. But as far as I can tell, D.Agi does what it's meant to do - let you play a finesse warrior without eating a dick and dying - without pushing anything the wrong way.

>> No.42169036

>>42168749
>If you're willing to buy into Weapon Finesse and Deadly Agility to be as baseline effective as Strength, then by all means do so. I don't consider this broken at all, actually.

So what you're saying is that Dexterity gives you a whole bunch of bonuses related to Initiative, Reflex, AC and most worthwhile skills, but you have to invest *two whole feats* to make it every bit as good as Strength for combat?

Wowzers! That completely negates the benefits of going Dex!

Lightning Reflexes gives you a +2 to Reflex. Improved Initiative gives you a +4 to Initiative. These are considered important, if not vital, feats for a Strength-based character.

Those are two feats, two feats a Dex-based fighter does not have to invest in.

Meanwhile they get an extra +2 to Reflexes, a +4 to Dex-based skills and a +4 to AC.

>> No.42169037

>>42168811
>low-magic setting
>Pathfinder

Well, the FIRST thing you should do when considering a low-magic game is toss pathfinder into the trashbin. Seriously, Pathfinder does NOT work well at all for any kind of game that significantly deviates from the standard assumptions.

>> No.42169044

>>42168821
Different strokes for different folks then, friend. I don't look at it as minmaxing, I look at it as enabling character options. The only class that gets it native is a variant class (Unchained Rogue) so I am not really sure what you're implying otherwise.

>>42168799
And there's a great example of it not being as effective. It's slightly more effective in two-weapon fighting but less effective with two-handed finesse weapons. Balanced enough to me. :)

>> No.42169060

>>42168976
>without spending a buttload of feats on being able to use a rapier properly

How many feats is a boatload?

How many feats does a Strength-based fighter need to spend so they can shore up a poor Dex score?

>> No.42169081

>>42169003
He's an Aegis. He has powerful build and augmented weapon. He's already wielding a Large katana that counts as Huge.

>> No.42169097

>>42169060
>AC not from dex, but heavy armor
>Initiative doesn't really matter.
>Str gets you laid more, while you have to spend two feats into Dex for that.
STR still wins out, mate.

>> No.42169101

Thanks /pfg/, now I want hatesex between Abrogail and Bellinda of Talingarde. I mean, what can be better than young powerleveled marysue sorceress princess? TWO such princesses!
>>42168890
>Or you spend those two feats you saved and take two weapon fighting twice, and now do more damage than the power attacking fighter can.
U wot m8?

>> No.42169103

>>42169036
Feats are a limited resource and by spending 20% of your net gain on level advancement featwise (bonuses not withstanding) to have a stat mirror the effectiveness of Strength about 75% of what Strength does for you, I don't see a problem. If you do, then it's a difference of opinion. You're free to disagree with me, and I'm not going to be offended there. I stand by it, and you can choose to either allow or disallow such shenanigans.

>> No.42169145

>mfw that godling game is stuffed to the gills with magical anime characters

>> No.42169159

>>42168512
>>42168510
Dex doesn't help your flat footed, Heavy armor does. So if you are fighting something that is making you flat footed that heavy armor can save your life, if you are fighting blaster wizard using single target touch attacks, then the dex will help you more.

>> No.42169164

So everyone knows Gunslingers are bad, and with the new errata changes, not even dual wielding double-barrel pistols can help them.

But how is the Bolt Ace?

>> No.42169184

>>42169164
Bolt ace is still pretty dang nifty. I see a lot of mentions of Gunsmoke Mystics and the sometimes mentioned Desperado as well.

>> No.42169188

>>42169159
>So if you are fighting something that is making you flat footed that heavy armor can save your life, if you are fighting blaster wizard using single target touch attacks, then the dex will help you more.

Aren't people going to run into touch-based attacks far more often than people catching you flat-footed?

>> No.42169191

>>42169101
>Not being an evil king from across the seas, who marries Abrogail for alliance with her lands, then offers Bellinda her land back via marriage, then plays them off against each other to stop them from killing you, while having wild satanic threesomes with them both
>Not ruling two kingdoms and being covered in bitches
It's like you don't even evil bard.

>> No.42169199

>>42169164

Pretty much the only reason to ever pick up a crossbow.

They're not great, but I prefer them to gunslingers.

>>42169188

Depends on the GM, mostly.

>> No.42169208

>>42169145
You act like that was a surprise somehow

>> No.42169225

>>42169199
>>42169184

Does Gunsmoke Mystic solve the inherent flaw of guns though?

>> No.42169227

>>42169208

I'm just surprised at how consistently averse /pfg/ is towards proper martial smash-kill classes.

>> No.42169258

>>42169145
That's the way a lot of roleplay goes these days. The stylistic line has gotten pretty thin on illustrated characters, and there's boatloads of them floating around to the point that near any magical idea falls right into it.

>> No.42169272

>>42169227

Typically the prevailing mood here seems to be in favor of the big badass barbarian. I'm surprised to hear otherwise.

>> No.42169306

>>42169225
Most of them, yes.
(I would know cause I helped the guy write it, and that was the one point I hammered into him)

>> No.42169311

>>42169227
Smashy doesn't insulate you from anime.

>> No.42169322

>>42169103

The problem there is a high dex score is a hidden bonus in and of itself, it means you don't have to spend feats (as you said, a limited resource) on fixing a mangled Reflex save or a poor Initiative score, or you can grab that mithril full plate and experience the best of both worlds (high flat and high touch).

But what does a strength-based class get that a dex-based couldn't? Two feats does not matter in the scheme of things, and you're suggesting time and time again that Strength-based martials get these awesome little feats that improve their class that a Dex based simply doesn't have access to.

>> No.42169346

>>42169225
That they're poorly implemented? No, but it helps alot. Give it a look over - check the OP there is a link to PoW:E up there.

>> No.42169354

>>42169184
>Gunsmoke Mystic
Did you fix Piercing Shot in the master doc?

>> No.42169365

>>42169272

/pfg/ likes the *concept* of a big burly barbarian, but when it comes down to making a character they aim for the most powerful build possible, and that always results in magic and anime.

>> No.42169368

>>42169272
I want to be an arcanist or a spheres caster!

>> No.42169369

>>42168890
Umm...no? Barbarian is full pa ask the time.

>> No.42169373

>>42169322

1.5x damage, 1.5x power attack, power attack in general, and not being pidgeonholed out of using most of the cool weapons seem like pretty good upsides to me.

>> No.42169398

>>42169199
What's the best type of crossbow for that sort of thing?
Hand? Light?

>> No.42169409

>>42169188
Really depends on the gm, some will throw invisible things and you, if you don't have the counter for it well prepare to be flat footed, first round of combat? Flat footed, there are also maneuvers if you are using dsp materiel to make attacks flat footed or touch
So really this puts the mithril breast plate forward as being the best option even more because it can utilize a good dex score well giving you a good base ac.
Basically you need to shore up both of them to be ready in every situation, if you can't well it's going to suck one way or the other most times.

>> No.42169417

>>42169365

I keep hearing "anime" used as an adjective. I wish to know why.

>>42169398

Light is probably your best bet. It's got Longbow damage dice and can free-action reload easily. Hand crossbows are piddly and for some reason you're not naturally proficient with them last I checked.

>> No.42169418

>>42169398
Minotaur Double
There's literally no other answer that isn't a trap.

>> No.42169421

>1/3rd of thread it PoW masturbation / rules discussion
>1/3rd of thread is AP discussion
>1/3rd of thread is thirsty fat gongords fapping.

How about we make this a 1/2, 1/2, 0 ratio? Seriously... You guys are fucking creepy sometimes.

>> No.42169428

>>42169010
Hey Gareth! I know that with Unquiet Grave being someone's leftovers, you're not too keen on messing too much with it - But is there any chance that you'll ever be writing style feats for it?

>> No.42169443

>>42169417
to imply that whatever fiction you're looking at is animated as opposed to static?

>> No.42169451

>>42169418
NO, that is still a trap. The only viable crossbow build is bolt ace gunslinger due to dex to damage, and even then you are just bad.

>> No.42169459

Alright, I'm terrible at figuring out magic item math. Could some kind soul tell me how to price a magic item that lets the wearer use Unseen Servant would be if it was 1/day, 3/day, or at will? Would it cost more as a ring, or as some sort of slotless trinket? Would it cost more, or less, if the servant was visible?

>> No.42169474

>>42169443
Japanese anime is full of thin, lithe protagonists doing precision strikes with katanas at mach speeds, and doing wuxia-style supernatural feats simply by being really good at martial arts or just having enough fighting spirit.

To some, this is bad. To others, this is good. Just a matter of taste.

>> No.42169487

>>42169417
>>42169474
Wrong post.

>> No.42169493

>>42169474

To be fair, this is a ridiculously high-magic game world by default.

Martial arts should be epic hero/wuxia shenanigans, not "I clonk it with a stick four times while the guy in pajamas uses the laws of physics as a yo-yo."

>> No.42169502

>>42169010
>>42169184

Gareth, ErrantX, what dark pacts do I have to make to bring into existence a Charisma-based archetype for an aegis that makes a fighty magical girl princess?

What about a Charisma-based cryptic archetype for playing a magical girl who fires lasers of love-patterns?

>> No.42169510

>>42169322
>reflex saves
Who cares about these? all they do is damage anyways. Will is where it is. Also: most martial characters don't benefit from going first exactly.

>> No.42169524

>>42169227
And magical girls absolutely can't smash-kill?

>> No.42169530

>>42169502
In general: why aren't tehre more archetypes that are like: wizard, but with wisdon as primary casting stat? also ban one school.

I think having classes where you get to move your primary attributes around is interesting.

>> No.42169536

>>42169493
Oh, I fully agree, I'm just trying to give a balanced explaination. My perfect campaign has no paizo classes, just psionics, initiators, and spherecasters, as sort of a "mind, body, and soul" theme of classes. I've never used akasha, maybe it can come too.

>> No.42169541

>>42169428
It's not leftovers, strictly speaking. I designed it top to bottom - with of course the help of editors/minions/my co-author - but I didn't particularly want it to happen mechanically because of some of the precise problems with it that /pfg/ has noted.

I'm not against an Unquiet Grave Style, but it's going in 3 if it happens (Grave would likely be reprinted in that event); space issues in Expanded prevent both the feat chain and the discipline from being included, to say nothing of wanting playtesting on the feats.

TL;DR I knew some of Grave's problems weren't avoidable but I'm not going to abandon it.

>> No.42169550

>>42169191
Wait, I just realized Abrogail doesn't have her own name and country in way of the wicked because they are not OGL.

>> No.42169557

>>42169502
Your suggestion that magical girls are CHA based offends magical viking.

>> No.42169575

>>42169541
If you were going to do such a thing, hypothetically, what vein would the style feats go in, assuming someone wanted to have a semi-plausible homebrew to toss up?

>> No.42169576

>>42169557
Well they're sure not Int-based.

>> No.42169589

New thread:
>>42169582
>>42169582
>>42169582
>>42169582
>>42169582

>> No.42169595

>>42169369
Ah,. but now you have dex to damage, so an urban barbarian with two weapons is better than barbarian, because his AC, saves, initiative AND damage are all based on one stat.

>>42169103
You are also forgetting the number of better than martial classes that require one-weapon-only builds such as War Priest, Magus, Bard, Clerics, and non-beastshape Druids. You're reducing their MAD even further.

>> No.42169603

>>42169459
See: Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items
>Unseen Servant:
>Spell level 1, caster level 1 = 1x1
>Continuous use, so 1x1x2000
>1 hour/level duration, so cost is not modified that way
>Maximum price is 2000gp
>If you want charges per day, then divide price by (5 divided by charges per day)
>It's just 400gp if 1/day
>1200gp for 3/day

By RAW, making it visible means you need to add in Silent Image, but it's a limited use silent image rather than 'whatever you want it to look like at the time' so I think you can bring the extra cost way down, but it's up to GM judgement.
Invisible is cheaper.

>> No.42169607

>>42169502
Not sure. Cryptic I'm not sure would even fit, thematically. But I'll make a note for when we hit that kind of content later.

>>42169575
Either letting the neg energy work on immune things (seriously, one spell shuts off all your bonus damage, god forbid you fight undead) or making the combatant more empowered by neg energy.

>> No.42169620

>>42169493
>Martial arts should be epic hero/wuxia shenanigans

There is a difference between someone using a high-tier Scarlet Throne maneuver and someone using their Aegis to grow an extra pair of arms and get a huge-sized weapon.

One feels like the heroic figures of old while the other is high-octane anime fightan magic.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with them, but anon is pointing out there is a distinct trend towards the former with the Godling game, with little in the way of just people who are *really really good* at what they do.

>> No.42169645

>>42169603
Ah, thanks mate!

>> No.42169665

>>42169510
There are lots of utility reflex saves actualy
Create pit.
Web
Being on fire
Alchemical Coal blindness
Grease
Tangle Foot bags

Most people just think of direct damage spells but there are lots of disables that key off reflex granted targeting will is still the superior option in almost every case.

>> No.42169727

>>42169665
And all Reflex Saves can be conveniently swapped to a Sense Motive Check, Craft Check, or Perform (Dance) check with little investment with what PoW provides.

>> No.42169813

>>42169474
Boy we do NOT watch the same stuff.

>> No.42170019

I really don't like that one guy. The one who shitposts with monmusu images here, whines endlessly about Paizo's stupid lore and is now on a warpath against DSP for some asinine reason.

>> No.42170086

>>42169620
Here, have an authentic hero of legend.
>[HERO] surpassed all of them at those feats for quickness and deftness. The women of Ulster loved [HERO] greatly for his quickness at the feats, for the nimbleness of his leap, for the excellency of his wisdom; for the sweetness of his speech, for the beauty of his face, for the loveliness of his look. For there were seven pupils in his kingly eyes, four of them in his one eye, and three of them in the other. He had seven fingers on either hand, and seven toes on either of his two feet. Many were his gifts. First, his gift of prudence until his warrior's flame appeared, the gift of feats, the gift of buanfach,6 the gift of draught-playing, the gift of calculating, the gift of sooth-saying, the gift of sense, the gift of beauty. But three faults had [HERO] —that he was too young (for his moustache had not grown, and all the more would unknown youths deride him), that he was too daring, that he was too beautiful.

Did I mention that he had gradient hair?

Can you tell who it is?
Keep in mind that that's just one legendary hero.

>> No.42170125

>>42170086
That's either Cuchulainn or Diarmud, but I can't tell which one. I'm pretty sure it's the former because he was "too young".

>> No.42170179

>>42170125
Yep, it's Cu'chulainn, oireland's greatest hero.

Whining about "anime" makes you a tool, and I sincerely hope that you cease posting and just... Go away or something. I wouldn't be glad if you died, but I would be glad to never have to deal with you or your kind again.

>> No.42170403

>>42170179
>Whining about "anime" makes you a tool
Masterwork whining tool?

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