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[ERROR] No.41258688 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

What do you do to stop your players from just magicking away all their problems? Any system.

>> No.41258709

>>41258688
if Magick isn't a three-edged sword, you're not doing it right.

>> No.41258718

something something not playing D&D

>> No.41258719

>>41258688
>What do you do to stop your players from just magicking away all their problems? Any system.
Magic always has to have a cost.

>> No.41258720

I play systems where that isn't possible.

i.e., basically anything that isn't D&D, with 3.PF being the worst offender.

>> No.41258721

>>41258688
I play Riddle of Steel, magic in there will greatly shorten your lifespan if you use it by aging you months at a time. You can totally nuke things, but it would probably knock a year off your life in the process.

>> No.41258734

>> No.41258736

>>41258688
I cheat on the fly. There's no way I can account for all of the magical bullshit a player might pull, so I let them have their goal if they were clever and deny it when magicking around the problem wouldn't require any brainpower on their part.

>> No.41258740

>>41258718

>> No.41258762

BRP Call of Chthulhu, Nigga.

Magic gon' fuck you up son.

And only a scant handful of characters will ever roll the stats to use it effectively if you roll as the book suggests.

Spells can be fairly powerful, but almost always comes with a chance of permanent sanity loss for a human caster.

>> No.41258780

>>41258718
>>41258720
>>41258734
>>41258740

>> No.41258790

>>41258688
Paradox

>> No.41258792

>>41258718
>>41258734
>>41258740
What about games like Anima where magic is still kinda overpowered.

>> No.41258801

>>41258780
Fedora tipping has lost all meaning.

>> No.41258808

>>41258688
Using magic = No reward. That's the price you pay.

>> No.41258811

Assuming you're stuck with a system where this a problem, you're just going to have to study up on the magic system yourself and figure out how to use it make challenging antagonists.

>> No.41258815

>>41258780

What do you even mean to imply by this?

>> No.41258848

>>41258688

What do you mean by "magicking away all their problems" ?

If it can be magicked away, it isn't a big problem

>> No.41258990

>>41258792
Magic's problem in Anima is that it's kind of a broad solution. Psionics, Ki and Elans are narrower solutions but generally get the job done faster and easier (don't get me started on Summoning).

>> No.41259006

>>41258688
so far I've been able to trust my players...
honestly, I don't get why you guys put wizards in such high regard, have you actually played a caster? ever? because I have, and they are not that great... they are fun to be sure, but not exactly as broken as /tg/ often likes to go on and on about.

especially once you run out of relevant spells for an encounter, which is not an unreasonable situation to find yourself in espicially if you weren't expecting a fight, you can run out of prepared spells pretty quickly and it takes at least 15 minutes to memorize new spells (assuming you have an open spell slot) so you won't be doing that mid-battle. and wands are expensive, even to craft, so you not likely to have one, let alone one of the spell you want.

just saying.

>> No.41259023

>>41258688
This sort of sentiment is expressed whenever the DM doesn't have 100% narrative control over the plot, and actually has to think on their feet instead of railroading players.

Fuck you.

>> No.41259048

>>41258688
Why is /tg/ so fucking autistic about magic?
Just have everything run on magic. Or have magic be extremely difficult to use. Or have magic not really do much. Or have something that hard counters magic. Or just use a setting without magic.
Do literally anything but bitch about magic 24/7.

>> No.41259083

>>41259006

You aren't playing an optimized spellcaster in 3.PF. If you do, it's trivially easy to have enough spells that outright end encounters or solve problems that nothing you describe is an issue.

Of course, you can avoid that. You can purposefully play a spellcaster of a weaker sort, or even just not optimize at all, and the other players will likely enjoy the game more.

But the fact that remains possible to do within the mechanics of the system, and is actually pretty damn easy to pull off, is a mechanical flaw that can rightfully be criticized.

>> No.41259111

>>41259023
No, fuck you.

Players want to be challenged. It is difficult to challenge characters with access to extremely powerful utility magic. Asking for help to improve a game is okay.

>> No.41259123

>>41259083
>You aren't playing an optimized spellcaster in 3.PF.
or you are just talking out of your ass. because again, scrolls and wands are expensive and you won't have a lot of them.

>> No.41259135

>>41259111

3.5 is not supposed to be a challenge.

>> No.41259144

There are plenty of problems you can't just magic away in 3.PF if you take out 2-3 hyper offending spells.

>> No.41259159

>>41259144
Which spells would that be?

>> No.41259160

>>41259123

Yeah, no. I'm not super at charop, and even I managed to make a Level 1 Gnomish Wizard in PF with four casts of a DC boosted Colour Spray per day. That's four uses of 'neuter an entire combat encounter' before I even need to think about using any other spells.

And, as mentioned, I am not good at charop. That is likely on the low end of the fullcaster power scale.

>> No.41259176

>>41259159
Off the top of my head Similarcrum, Commune, and Contact Other Plane.

>> No.41259206

>>41259160
>Level 1 Gnomish Wizard in PF
it wasn't an illusionist was it?
with rainbow-colored hair?

just curious.

>> No.41259222

>>41258688
>Any system

Pendragon.

Done.

>> No.41259228

>>41259160
At level one there isn't much character optimization to do. A spell focused color spray and 20 int is all you're getting unless you are a human. And combat only really gets neutered if you DM is stupid enough to have the enemies arrange themselves in neat cones for you.

The enemy should know color spray exists, and act accordingly.

>> No.41259229

>>41259206

Bob?

No seriously fuck off with this try to out people on 4chan shit. If you want to ask someone if they are an anon, just ask them on facebook or something

>> No.41259232

>>41258688
>Any system
EotE/AoR

done.

>> No.41259243

>>41259135
>any system
>D&D

>> No.41259263

>>41259206

Illusionist yes, rainbow hair no.

>> No.41259299

>>41259263
oh, sorry, just...
... um, never mind...

anyway what >>41259228 said color spray can easily be neutered by just not having the enemies arrange themselves into neat little cones in front of the wizard...

>> No.41259316

>>41259228

That's only if they have the possiblity to manoeuvre. They could be taken by surprise, not realize the guy is a spellcaster, or just don't have the room to escape the effect.

>> No.41259318

>>41259243
Let's be honest, 3.5 is the one he is really asking about.

>> No.41259338

>>41259299
so, no fights on narrow surfaces, ever?

>> No.41259356

>>41259316
If you're ambushing them then you should expect an easy victory. As for their arrangement, they don't have to realize that he is a caster, just that casters exist and that they generally need line of effect and the commonality of color spray (also that the man out of armor not carrying a weapon is either not a threat or a huge one, so arrange accordingly).

As for space to manuvere, why would any sane group of enemies do this?

If you're fighting animals then sure, your points are more valid, but anything with an int above 8 can plan strategically.

>> No.41259369

>>41259232
Star Wars? How does that fix magic?

>> No.41259374

>>41259338
If your enemies are sane they won't stuff themselves into one. They players shouldn't either in case the enemy has colorsprayer. ( or even a man with a colorspray wand/potion)

>> No.41259379

>>41259356

If a GM had every random mob of goblins or orcs purposefully adopt precise formations to avoid spell templates, I'd call bullshit. Trained guards or soldiers, maybe, but most D&D fights aren't against that kind of opponent.

>> No.41259386

3e. Monsters generally have nonvisual means of locating foes, focus heavily on will, good balance skill, have mediocre fort defenses against mundane effects, mediocre hp. As they increase in level dungeon sighting and footing gets more obstructed with basic mobility skills being required (making animated dead/golems/etc generally useless except for guarding your home base) until eventually you only see enemies when you blunder into them, and scent overtakes sight. Mind control and summons and the like tend to become quickly useless as well. I more have to worry about keeping wizard types from being obsolete than too powerful. Also, repeating and intelligently used traps are a serious concern, can't just flood them with summons.
4e. You took ritual casting? Go ahead.
OSR: DUNGEON CRAWL CLASSICS CASTING YO

>> No.41259398

>>41259379
Really? Are these orcs and goblins just unaware of one of the most common spells in the game? Spells are common knowledge, one of the goblins has seen it before, or they have a caster of their own that told them.

>> No.41259404

>>41259369
Yes, anon, it's Star Wars.
Now what games are those in particular?
Hint: no jedi

>> No.41259406

>>41259356
>Phalanxes and ranked groups of attackers aren't a thing
>20x20 rooms to fight Orcs aren't a thing
Color spray is deadly because it kills standard formations and it's insane in the dungeon, which is a big part of the game.

>> No.41259411

>>41259379

Why not? Mages are extremely common and "not in a cone" isn't exactly rocket science.

>> No.41259417

>>41258815
Probably that they're being smug cunts, as per use.

"Well, explcitly stated any system, and like, three other guys already said these... But I didn't get a chance to assure my place amongst the cool, nonmainstream RPG players! Off goes the macro."

Yes, we get it. DnD is terrible. But your hateboner for it is even worse, you hipster bastards.

>> No.41259427

>>41259417

I'd agree with you if the thread wasn't full of people who obviously failed to get the memo.

>> No.41259440

>>41259379
Its reasonable for orcs to have an anti magical focus. They tend to hate elves above all else and fixate on one upping them, and their wizardly power is likely the thing they dread the most.
Before there were orc fighter NPCs, there were orc vandals, even more antimagic focused barbarians.

All imo but I like to portray orcs as being out to fuck over wizards at all costs.

>> No.41259461

>>41259417
>Not expecting people to dump on D&D in a thread specifically about one its worst flaws

>> No.41259462

>>41259406
>>41259406
>phalanxes
Not when expecting spellcasters
>20x20 rooms to fight orcs
Sounds like plenty of room to manuvere.

Standard formations are standard in real life where there is no magic. If you use them in table top games then you're mad. Wars would not be fought as their are in a mundane world.

>> No.41259465

>>41259417
The only game where magic being superior to all approaches to the point in silliness is D&D.
There are few other systems where OP actually applies at all, so people listed the primary offender.

>> No.41259472

Play 3.PF with E6 rules.

>> No.41259476

>>41259404
>Yes, anon, it's Star Wars.
>Now what games are those in particular?
>Hint: no jedi
even if there was a jedi (really closest you can get is force-sensitive) they can still get their asses pounded just as easily as anyone else.

>> No.41259485

>>41259417

>calling people hipsters in 2015

Seriously?

“Hipster” is a term co-opted for use as a meaningless pejorative in order to vaguely call someone else’s authenticity into question and, by extension, claim authenticity for yourself.

It serves no conversational function and imparts no information, save for indicating the opinions and preferences of the speaker.

Meanwhile, a market myth has sprung up around the term, as well as a cultural bogeyman consisting of elusive white 20-somethings who wear certain clothes (but no one will agree on what), listen to certain music (no one can agree on this either), and act a certain way (you’ve probably sensed the pattern on your own).

You can’t define what “that kind of behavior or fashion or lifestyle” actually is, nor will you ever be able to. That’s because you don’t use “hipster” to describe an actual group of people, but to describe a fictional stereotype that is an outlet for literally anything that annoys you.

The twist, of course, is that if it weren’t for your own insecurities, nothing that a “hipster” could do or wear would ever affect you emotionally. But you are insecure about your own authenticity - “Do I wear what I wear because I want to? Do I listen to my music because I truly like it? I’m certainly not like those filthy hipsters!” - so you project those feelings.

Suffice it to say, no one self-identifies as a hipster; the term is always applied to an Other, to separate the authentic Us from the inauthentic, “ironic” Them.

>> No.41259497

>>41259465
>There are few other systems where OP actually applies at all
Mage is really the only one I can think of.

>> No.41259528

>>41258688
Playing a system where that doesn't solve all their problems, or by changing that system to ensure it doesn't.

>> No.41259564

>>41259497
Mage, Ars Magica

Games where "magic is crazy" is basically the whole point and the entire system is wrapped around making that fun.

>> No.41259604

>>41258792
You don't have infinite Zeon, buddy. Magic's good, danm good, but you can't afford to throw it at every problem or you'll just run dry. Plus, you're not going to know all the magic in the game. It's more likely that you'll be good at a couple paths plus some free access spells. You won't always have a spell that cleanly solves the situation. Especially if you're picking up Metamagic advantages - and you want Metamagic.

And if you're using the default setting, magic is something you want to keep on the down low, lest you end up with Happy Inquisiton Funtimes.

>> No.41259612

>>41259461
You're one of your mother's worst flaws, but no one brings her up every time you post.

>> No.41259655

>>41259485
Amazing. Now we know you're autistic, given that the widely accepted definition of Hipster is "People who dislike things that are popular merely on the distinction that the things are popular".

Which means 3.5 haters are still not hipsters because it's one of the most objectively shitty editions of any RPG ever.

>> No.41259656

>>41259485
This is really good copypasta. I might have to keep this around for later.

>> No.41259664

>>41259485
>It serves no conversational function and imparts no information, save for indicating the opinions and preferences of the speaker.
Whatever, you autistic special snowflake Mary Sue MRA SJW memester hipster cuck.
Did I forget any?

>> No.41259675

My DM just doesn't give us any money for anything and rarely lets the wizard cast spells. It's a super fun experience that hasn't made me want to stab anyone in the neck.

>> No.41259690

>>41259664
3aboo and 4rry

>> No.41259694

>>41258792
>Anima
>Magic is overpowered
>Finite zeon
>MASSIVE taboo
>Zeon is finite
>ML isn't infinite
>Generally bad-ish damage output unless made for that(And then you lack utility)
>Most of the world is very not okay with magic
>Literally you're a gifted among millions, people will want your bits.
>Extremely limited resource regain
>Won't have permanent buffs like ki nor 24h sustains like psy
>Nor a pretty spamable highly damaging ability like ki
>Extremely hard to balance out with something else as it requires a large point investment in secondaries too (mag. App. since you're one of the few classes that gets it 1:1)

While yes, you can go creation and generate a new party, most DMs will slap you for that or you get taken away. It's like the tao-zan-dan tourney they did in barcelona where a guy brought a wizard and an inquisitor told him "Follow me" he was never heard of again.

>inb4 someone posts high or divine magic

>>41258990
Summoning is bullshit if left time.
Summoning is also dogshit if it doesn't have time.

>> No.41259704

>>41259675
How does he forbid the wizard from casting spells? No rests?

>> No.41259723

>>41258688
Throw problems at them that they can't just magic past, or that it would be too costly to do so.

>> No.41259744

>>41259704
Pretty much. Any time he comes up with a somewhat interesting or imaginative use for a spell he is instantly shot down for it because it's not in muh rules or stop having fun it isn't allowed.

>> No.41259759

>>41259744
wat?
Sounds like a shit GM

>> No.41259793

>>41259694
>>Won't have permanent buffs like ki nor 24h sustains like psy
Hey, daily maintenance spells are a thing. They just eat into your already limited Zeon regeneration.

>> No.41259794

>>41259485
I hate you so fucking much.

>> No.41259800

>>41259759
He's my friend otherwise, but I just don't know how to bring it up without saying "this is pure suffering and all it has brought is an unending desire to hit you"

>> No.41259853

>>41259800
So just tell him that. If he's a friend he'll understand it as hyperbole (even if it isn't). And if he doesn't understand, then hit him and then explain it in detail.

>> No.41259879

>>41259793
I've only seen use 5:

Animal things like flying (obvious so it's mostly ignored)
See truly (Basically worse see supernatural)
Obfuscate (I want to be a shitty stealth character!)
Cuirass(?) (The earth one that gives armor vs non-energy, this one is GOAT.)
Regenerate (Best daily sustain)
Create being(s) all the versions.

All of these except regenerate are pretty step on their price and int.

And the rest are really very, very, VERY specific, like the pen or life sacrifice (which is also very pricey).

Another example is how warlocks get to hit energy(if not paying the 60MK), via enchanted weapon, an ability that can be dispelled and requires zeon (plus a weapon), ki users just pay their 60MKs (they get plenty) and have +10 damage and hit all kinds of energy, even while naked.

>> No.41259941

>>41258688

Gee I dunno, give the bad guys magic?

>> No.41260153

>>41259497
Even in Mage, there are ways to shut it down outright, there is peril to using it inherently via mechanics and lore, and using magic to solve all problems will make you go insane in time
>>41259853
This.
Your friend should understand if you pull him aside and be like dude, this isn't FUN, and that is what we are here for, right?

>> No.41260219

Shit I wish a player would.
Magicking away their problems would at least be them:
a) recognizing that something is a problem
b) deciding to take action against a problem
c) coming up with a solution to that problem

I'm stuck holding their hand, yes, it is an issue, yes you can/should do something about it, maybe you should use some abilities? Maybe do anything. Just, one time tonight, complete the sentence "My character decides to *Blank*" and put something in there that isn't a dick joke?

>> No.41260267

>>41259879
I'm pretty sure there are a few more you're not counting, like the one that adds to all resistances in Creation (and extra resistances are always good). Or the damage barrier. Yeah, you're not going to be using a ton of dailies, but they are there and some of them can get pretty good.

I'd personally say Soul Barrier out of Essence is fucking great too, cheap to maintain and it shrugs off a ton of stuff that would otherwise fuck you over. If you can maintain it as Advanced you just outright ignore anything under 200 MR, for the ultra low cost of 10 Zeon a day. Though I'm slightly biased because of how many MR checks my latest GM likes to throw at the group.

>Another example is how warlocks get to hit energy(if not paying the 60MK), via enchanted weapon, an ability that can be dispelled and requires zeon (plus a weapon), ki users just pay their 60MKs (they get plenty) and have +10 damage and hit all kinds of energy, even while naked.
Yes, any smart Warlock is just going to pick up the associated Ki abilities instead.

>> No.41260285

>>41260267
Actually never mind on the Soul Barrier. I'm an idiot and I misremembered how it works, it's just a shield. Which makes it kind of meh instead.

>> No.41260318

>>41260267
>Yes, any smart Warlock is just going to pick up the associated Ki abilities instead.
Sometimes he doesn't want to wait for 3 levels or pay CP or DP.


>>41260285
It's fine, I forgot the BESTO daily being +res myself so there is that. Also damage barrier is kinda crappy since it's very easy to ignore.

Also soul barrier is explained pretty weirdly too, if you can defend the actual attack (meaning it doesn't deal enough % of damage to hit you with the effect) a normal shield is better, but again the only 24/7 shield is perfect shield.

>> No.41260409

>>41259374

What if you fight in a tunnel, a corridor or on a boat, for exemple?

>> No.41260431

>>41259356
>As for space to manuvere, why would any sane group of enemies do this?

You're implying only insane people fight in restricted space?

>> No.41260476

>>41258688
I try not to exploit the rules, as a player. Not ruin shit just because "lol, technicality" - but at the same time, it bothers me if a magical solution is really obvious, in a magic-setting, and the DM decides that that will NOT WORK, because plot.

Recently:
>Party needs magical lantern artifact
>Just hit lvl 6 w/ muh cleric, gained "everburning flame" or whatever.
>Lantern Artifact belongs in a lighthouse owned by local nobles, where it provides everlasting light.
>It's been stolen
>"We'll get it back" - Quest received, yay.
>Obvious conflict of interest, nobles need it back, we need it.
>My Cleric offers to spend a few days casting loads of "everlasting flame" spells in their lighthouse, so that they can make do without the artifact for as long as we need it.
>Noble leader is arrogantly pissed and implies Im an idiot for thinking that could work
>"We obviously tried that already"
>DM think its the most farfetched shit ever.
>Excuse me for not knowing every noble apparently had lvl 6+ clerics standing ready
>Their is never any rational reason given for exactly why it can't work.

That annoyed me. My character has a capability that should help render a conflict of interest completely obsolete, but apparenly we are plot-locked on eventually coming to blows with these people, and I should just shut up.

>> No.41260559

>>41259123
>scrolls and wands are expensive and you won't have a lot of them.
You're obviously not very familiar with this system.

>> No.41260569

>>41258688
pathfinder.
my dm has a mages guild and enemies that are not chump change that will die to your shitty save or sucks.

>> No.41260573

>>41260318
>Sometimes he doesn't want to wait for 3 levels or pay CP or DP.
I suppose it's a decent enough stopgap for level 1-2 if you really want to avoid MM for whatever reason. There are few things more CP:DP efficient than MM though, and a lot of good Ki powers for a warlock.

>Also damage barrier is kinda crappy since it's very easy to ignore.
Is there a way to ignore it other than just having high enough base damage? And yeah it's not that great, but it can shrug off a knife or arrow in your back. Can be useful in some circumstances.

>> No.41260578

>>41260409
>>41260431
Not if they can avoid it.

>> No.41260587

>>41260573
>Is there a way to ignore it other than just having high enough base damage?
Touching energy.

>> No.41260614

>>41260587
Do you know what page that rule is on?

>> No.41260839

>>41260614
236 core exxet (normal english book should be near, where the damage barrier is explained).
313 explains it again "This capacity doesn't work vs damage able to touch energy", core exxet under "Damage barrier".


Damage barrier is simply put immunity to non-superhuman mooks, and damaging energy is pretty are by default, 99% of anima guards won't be able to damage you. And if you've played anima you know getting damage is a bad idea, even if it's a mook.

>> No.41261212

>>41260839
Oh, it's buried in Chapter 14. Explains why I don't remember it. Yeah, basically mook immunity then. Not useless, but definitely situational.

>> No.41261369

>>41260569
>I can houserule away the problem, so that means there is no problem!

>> No.41261400

HARD MODE:

You're playing OWOD Mage.

>> No.41261407

>>41261369
yeah, and?

>> No.41261415

>>41261369

What houserules?

>> No.41261442

>>41261400

Use the Omniscient Observer version of Paradox.

Sticking your hand into a bag to conjure a gun? Paradox! Using a teleport spell to move between two closed but unlocked safes with nobody around? Paradox! Using magic to do literally anything but manipulate the probability of two possible outcomes? Paradox!!!

>> No.41261771

>>41261442
That'd get you a punch in the face, and definitely not an increase in the probability of you fucking that cute alternative chick you're playing.

>> No.41261809

>>41261771

I'm not saying Omniscient Observer Paradox is fun or interesting, but it is the shortest path to stopping your players from magicking away all their problems willy-nilly.

>> No.41261978

>>41261809
It also breaks large parts of the setting and isn't the gameworld that the (highly inconsistent) rulebooks present.

That's "stop playing dnd" tier advice which, while technically accurate, isn't actually useful.

>> No.41262511

Reminds me of a 5e horror game I was playing in.
The paladin of the group had the Alert feat, and then asked to DM if he could purchase the weapon of warning. Being a new DM he didn't know what this uncommon item did. For those of you who haven't played 5e the Alert feat allows you to get a +5 on initiative, and you can't be surprised.. The weapon of warning warns you about danger nearby, and gives the same ability of not being surprised to any ally in thirty feet of the weapon wielder. Needless to say everyone in our group would have spider-sense in a horror game. Monsters there, trap there, can't jump out and get us because the Paladin done magicked it away.

>> No.41262534

>>41262511
>letting players buy magical items without making them work for it in 5e
Shit DM.

>> No.41262704

>>41262511

>Alarm spell in a horror game
>Not an open invitation to have the fucking thing blaring constantly without anything ever happening

Shit DM for not realizing it

>> No.41262815

>>41259485
Nothing wrong with this post.

>> No.41263043

>>41261212
Hey, being able to ignore the whole town guard until they fire a canon at your face is good, specially since that can be the bane of anyone, because it pops your shield or because it makes you defend at -90

>> No.41263129

>>41259379
>If a GM had every random mob of goblins or orcs purposefully adopt precise formations to avoid spell templates, I'd call bullshit. Trained guards or soldiers, maybe, but most D&D fights aren't against that kind of opponent.

Or Kobolds
Simple little critters, sneaky as hell, and great at traps. Not too smart, but not retarded.

You think they'll all group up and charge the PC's? Or will they hide in their lair, setting up small ambushes and fleeing. Making the PC's burn up their spells and forcing them to wade through traps and follow.

>> No.41263286

>>41262534
>Shit DM.

Agreed.

To answer OP, one thing our DM does, is make magic users spend time gathering components. You don't have to RP it out, but you have to allot time for it. Each spell bag holds (x) uses of (x) spell. When you run out, it's time to refill them.

Also, mages guard their spells. They don't sell them. They sometimes trade them, but they don't normally sell them. Scrolls and such are found, not paid for and bought.

>> No.41263418

>>41263129
>Making the PC's burn up their spells and forcing them to wade through traps and follow
you can't do that because- it'll ruin my power fantasy!!!!

No wait, I was supposed to keep that to myself...

>> No.41263441

>>41258688
Play a system where magic isn't the solution to every fucking problem?

Bonus: play a system where magic is actually the cause of more problems than it solves, and most people are suspicious of spellcasters at best.

>> No.41263482

>>41258848
So, death and starvation and logistics...not big problems, then?

>> No.41263485

>>41263418
>you can't do that because- it'll ruin my power fantasy!!!!

I think you're 100% correct on that. A lot of DM's don't play the monsters out well. That's why you read /tg/ threads where the PC's talk about killing dragons at lv 5 by stabbing in the eyeball or something.

Low level mages (if you have a good dm), live in constant worry about dying. A couple spells fail, and they're gonna get their shit pushed in.

I think so many players now, want to be the 'bad-assed mage', that the dm's let them turn armies into ash, so now they think that's how it's meant to be played.

>> No.41263520

>>41263418
>>41263129
>Making the PC's burn up their spells and forcing them to wade through traps and follow
This stops being a problem around level 2-3.

>> No.41263574

>>41263520
>This stops being a problem around level 2-3.
no it doesn't you still have a finite number of spells each day and the GM doesn't have a finite number of monsters and traps he can use to burn up your spells. I think you are either delusional or have had a pushover GM for too long.

>> No.41263599

Start implementing anti-magic. An invisible force, maybe some hidden cult or other group, has noticed the PCs and starts working in the shadows against them.

>> No.41263607

>>41261978
Are you kidding?

"Stop laying DnD" is literally the best system advice that can be given to anyone still playing that shitty game.

>> No.41263746

>>41263520
>This stops being a problem around level 2-3.

Only if your DM is a giver.

>> No.41263802

They don't abuse what little they have to start with, either because they don't know how or just don't want to, and quit the game before their characters are strong enough to have anything that is unavoidably problematic.

>> No.41263872

>>41263607
>Stop laying DnD
But she's so easy

>> No.41263908

>>41263607
>"Stop laying DnD" is literally the best system advice that can be given to anyone still playing that shitty game.

What if we're still having fun?

>> No.41263931

>>41263872

She's also so disease rotten she'll make your cock rot

>> No.41263944

>>41263908
>What if we're still having fun?

You aren't allowed to have fun with it, because the rule-lawyers and the anime junkies have declared it totally broken (which it is when played in the manner they play it)

>> No.41263994

>>41263872
I imagine 3.x would be a yandere. Like you'd have really wild, crazy sex, but then she'd try cutting the cover off every other game you so much as look at.

>> No.41264227

>>41263944
A game shouldn't be so imbalanced that the combat rules fall apart just because the fighter specced for grappling and the wizard thought 'color spray seems useful.'

You can break damn near any game if you really try to, that's inevitable. Nothing is perfectly balanced. But a game that falls apart just from playing it -as intended- is just ridiculously bad.

Of course, you can still have fun with it. But 'fun' does not mean 'not broken.' It's an important distinction. You can have one while still having the other. You can also have neither, of course.

>> No.41264347

>>41264227
The thing is, 3.x was designed to be a pushover. The encounter building guidelines recommend you fight mostly groups of things of an ECL below you. You're supposed to EZ mode the game, not play it as a challenge.

>> No.41264567

>>41263482

Not if they can be magicked away. Big problems are defined by not being easily solvable. A problem that can be magicked away is, by definition, easily solvable.

>> No.41264893

Eh, Dresden Files RPG.

>> No.41265024

>>41258792
The fact that the world's strongest factions will burn you alive for wielding it.

>> No.41265092

>>41263908
Congrats? I mean, I wouldn't brag about it on the internet. It's like bragging how much fun you have by smearing your own shit across your face and into your mouth. If that's what floats your wagon, though...

>> No.41265126

>>41264567
Then nothing is a big problem, because everything can be magicked away.

Congrats, you have completely destroyed any reason to play.

>> No.41265168

>>41259694

I have fond memories of playing a pure combat mage in Anima. She didn't have a heap of utility but she was fun as hell for just going 'Yep, time to throw out fuckoff lasers'.

Ofuda for half-cast spells really helped the cast time. Mind you, she also spent like half the battles just sustaining shields rather than fighting but the multi-target shield + triple strength shields led to some tanky teammates.

>> No.41265215

>>41265168
>Not playing a pacifism wiz/ment
>Not just sustaining cuirass plus regen plus +resist and keeping a mental nework on everyone of your party while you sleep in your sanctury because you're a blind doomed man to get enough DPs

>> No.41265274

>>41265215

Nah, she was Light/Nobility, Nature/Peace iirc?

She was a combat wombat with extra social, not really a multi-purpose mage.

>> No.41265300

>>41265274
Anon, whenever someone talks about anima we have to talk about the millions of characters that like Becquer poems will be just sad dreams instead of happy endings.


Lazer oda nobanuga eh?

>> No.41265343

>>41265300

Yep, that was her.

>> No.41265644

>>41261400
source?

>> No.41267185

>>41258688
If you cast fireball you must sacrifice a finger, an ear an eye or something,Larger spells require more bits.It does't have to be yours but the power of the spell is proportionate to the creature.For example even the weakest spell can do pretty good damage if you sacrifice a dragon thumb.You could still nuke a city and create a new race but the spell would require like 500 dragon dicks or 12 billion kobold balls or 150 million human arms or something ridiculous and retarded

>> No.41267618

>>41265126
>Congrats, you have completely destroyed any reason to play d&d.

Well, that's d&d for you.

How about we play a nice game of Burning Wheel, REIGN, or TRIGGER WARNING Dungeon World instead?

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