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41112499 No.41112499 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

> Party flees as town burns
> Cleric looks back
> Petrified
> No save allowed

YHWH for that GM.

>> No.41112646

My favorite part of the Bible is when Jesus curses the fig tree for not bearing fruit all year round.
If Jesus is YHWH, then he designed the tree, he knows it's only following its nature, and he can easily change it.
But he chooses to punish the tree instead.
Really sums up the whole religion, doesn't it?
A picture of a hat is not an argument.

>> No.41112666

>If Jesus is YHWH
But he isn't, he's Jesus.

>> No.41112780

Nice trips. But even admitting that he isn't (I'm no theologian), he DOES know that God designed the tree.

>> No.41113313


Lot's wife isn't really a cleric. I don't know why you would think she was.

>> No.41113337

satan pls

>> No.41113403

Jesus is often interpreted as either the son of God or an avatar of Him, sometimes being both at the same time, and there's been debate on that.

If Jesus doesn't have full access to the knowledge of God or has a separate personality from the YHWH version thereof, he could easily be doing this because Jesus doesn't always agree with YHWH, and being the half-deity offspring and/or other personality of the same being basically lets him get away with that.

Which when you consider the fact that Jesus was a heretic in terms of Jewish practices of the time and his own revised religions popped up as a result of his teachings, that makes a lot of sense. A lot of the rules and traditions of the OT stopped being relevant or were asinine in his time, so instead of blindly following them, he took the core aspects of belief in YHWH, removed all the horse-shit, and tried to get people to realize just because someone told you these are the rules doesn't mean you can't say "these rules suck, let's just not be shitty to one another instead".

Kind of ironic when you look at Christianity after it got more organized, but what we know of Jesus the man makes sense.

>> No.41113405

Lucifer is best angel.
In canon that is. Best fanfic angel is Anthony Crowley.

>> No.41113471


No, what's ironic is that in light of Deteronomy chapter 13, God is pretty explicit that you shouldn't be doing exactly what Jesus is doing, and that you shouldn't be listening to him just because he can work miracles.

>> No.41113560

The angels specifically told Lot's family not to look back. It's not God's fault Lot's wife didn't have two brain cells to rub together.

The interpretation I have of that scene is that the tree represents people who could very well accept Christ (bear him fruit), but don't, which leads to the death of the tree, representing the second death we have if we don't accept Christ.

>> No.41113641

Wait... how the bloody nether do you know that Lot's wife didn't have a save?

Did you see the dice fall? Maybe she didn't pass her save, is all I'm sayin.

>> No.41113673


>> No.41114055


Personal interpretations are worthless in determining the author's intent.

The driver on the bus says move on back, move on back.

Obviously a metaphor for racial segregation in public transit prior to and during the civil rights movement. Such a racist song.

>> No.41114067

> It's not God's fault Lot's wife didn't have two brain cells to rub together.
He made an imperfect creation and punished it for being imperfect.

>> No.41114091
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But anon, God does not play with dice.

>> No.41114112
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Slow the fuck down there Lucy, that's just semantics.

>> No.41114133


It's Yahweh or the Highway.

>> No.41114168
File: 142 KB, 1138x1024, trinity.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Jesus is God as much as any other personality of God is God.

What Jesus isn't is the Holy Spirit and the Father.

>> No.41114210

But "God" is just a capitalized improper noun referencing an all-powerful being. If all three are God, but not each other, then that must mean...


>> No.41114221
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Sure he does.
And the dice are loaded.

>> No.41114254
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>> No.41114306


>> No.41114362


You're not very good at math, are you?

>> No.41114423

Think of God like an actor who plays several different characters.

For instance, Christopher Lee is Saruman, Count Dooku, and Dracula. However, Saruman isn't Count Dooku, Count Dooku isn't Dracula, and Dracula isn't Saruman.

>> No.41114452

Bavarian Abitur with 15 points in Mathematik Grundkurs.
I'm good.

>> No.41114455


You mean he was.

>> No.41114497


Do they not have the Transitive Property of Equality in Bavaria?

>> No.41114544

We do. But we've also practiced text problems and as an aspiring translator I am aware of the inaccuracies of language.

>> No.41114547


>Not Castiel

And on a Thursday too!

>> No.41114573


No, fuck you.

He's just gone undercover to hunt down Old One Cults.

>> No.41114586

Sorry, never watched Supernatural.
Has he also killed a fellow demon with a Holy Water prank setup?

>> No.41114592

>If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, 13:2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; 13:3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams
>whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods
>other gods

>> No.41114693

>other gods
False idols. Jews in the Old Testament could not go five steps without carving out some statue and worshipping it.

>> No.41114750


Oh, you've got one of those funny parsings. 13:1 is sometimes dropped back to the end of 12. The part where it says "All of these things that I command you, that you shall observe to do,, do not add to them, and do not take away from them".

Then it launches into the "prophet or dreamer".

And I would further point out that the OT conception of God is, you know' "one". Deuteronomy 6:4. יְהוָה אֶחָד, not אֶחָד, יְהוָה

I.E. a triune God is an "other god".

>> No.41114756

What I wanted to imply was, that Deuteronomy 13 does not necessarily mean what >>41113471 said, since Jesus wasn't collecting jewelery to make a new golden veal and install that as a new god for the jews, but tried to update their old one.
On the other hand, this might be ruleslawyering the bible...

>> No.41114768

You think he isn't up there right now, finally reunited with the rest of cast of the old Dracula movies, with Vlad himself directing a remake?

>> No.41114780

>up there

>> No.41114788

Okay, "do not add to them, and do not take away from them" clears it up I think.

>> No.41114819

So Thomas Aquinas, St. Augustine and the thousands of years of interpretations of the bible by thousands of theologians are worthless? Good to know.

He made a creation with free will and gave her the choice.

>> No.41114837

>just because someone told you these are the rules doesn't mean you can't say "these rules suck, let's just not be shitty to one another instead".

The only records left of him are from other Christians writing after the fact, so we can't know for sure. Or from Romans or Jews writing years later about what Christians have told them. So far as I know, the only "heresy" he was spouting was his claim that he was the messiah. He wasn't saying anything new that I can think of. The Golden Rule was invented by Hillel a century before, for example.

And he did NOT end the observance of traditional jewish practice. That was ended by Paul after he took over, and over the opposition of most of Jesus's other followers. There was a strong religious debate within very early proto-christianity about whether they were a sect of judaism (and therefore subject to the law) or whether the old rules no longer applied.

Paul was a hellenized Jew-- the equivalent of a Reform jew today. He didn't follow the religious laws and mostly was into greek and roman art, culture, and philosophy. Jesus was an Essene, the equivalent of the Hassidic jews of today. They were a separatist fringe group that had their own practices and were weird but highly orthodox.

Paul's changes were so successful because it meant that they could take belief in Jesus to the vast number of non-jews who were familiar with greek philosophy but not jewish legalism, bypassing the jews who were used to people making messianic claims. It also meant that they didn't have to circumcize or follow jewish dietary laws. So a bigger pool of potential converts and an easier faith to follow. The new recruits eventually swamped the more jewish strains with sheer numbers.

>> No.41114856

He executed 20,000+ Ottoman Muslim invaders after defeating their army. He gets in.

>> No.41114892


+5 underrated

Also, she got a choice. She didn't have to look back. One time when a DM can acceptably autokill a player is if they make an affirmative choice to do something knowing it's an autokill.

Finally, she wasn't "killed" now that I think of it. She was transmuted. So if this were a game it would be a plot hook for players to march off and find a way to transmute her back. Say her player was going on a vacation for a few months and would miss some games. Their character is on ice until their return, unless they decide not to come back, in which case they're just in limbo like that forever. It means other players or events can't screw with their character while they're gone.

>> No.41114909


If you're going to accept Christian theology that there is a heaven and hell, then why not also accept their legendry about how you get in?

>> No.41114931

>Hey, we can totally go on a quest to get a cleric to cast salt-to-flesh on mom.
>Nah, let's just ERP and rape dad.

Lot's kids were That Girl.

>> No.41114945

I'm pretty sure killing Ottomans get's you some credit.

>> No.41114954


Forgot that bit. Eww, you're right. No wonder Lot's wife's player quit.

>> No.41114982

Wtf is YHWH?

>> No.41115007

The Judeo-Christian God. I Am Who I Am in Hebrew.

>> No.41115027

Oh right, forgot about the whole only consonants thing

>> No.41115035

YHWH is the Tetragrammaton, a 4-letter shorthand for Yahweh, the God of Abraham. OP is making a false equivalency argument between shitty GM behavior and an act of God in the old testament.

Lurk moar or learn to Google. Preferably both.

>> No.41115185


And then go full magical realmy even after that. The older kid born out of that incest was "Moav". Which is literally Hebrew for "From father"


It's a (bad) anglecization of יְהוָה. Probably a better pronunciation would be "Yoh-wah" but with a very faint "W", almost a blend between "W" and "V"


It isn't actually "I am that I am", even though God does say that in Exodus at the burning bush.

יְהוָה is formed by melding הָיָה, הִוָּה, and יהיה, "Was", "Is/be" and "Will be", and implies transcendance over time. Pretty much all the times you get God talking out of tense is when it's יְהוָה, not אֱלֹהִים or any of the other names.

>> No.41115234


One of my teachers in High School taught us about some kind of additive thing that Hebrew has. Like Father is "1", Mother is "1" and Child will be "2" and this is reflected in the words themselves since you can "add" them. Either of you know anything about that?

>> No.41115341
File: 14 KB, 873x565, Hebrew Alphabet.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


Closest thing I can think of is Gematryia.

Hebrew uses its alphabet as a numbering system. starting with Aleph being 1 and then going on in a semi-stacatto manner (It goes, starting from the top, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 20, 30, 40 etc. If you wanted to say 14, you would do יד, adding them together.)

That being said, those particular numbers you gave don't add up, "Father" אַבָּא would be 4, "Mother", אִמָּא would be 52, and "child" would be יֶלֶד, which comes out to 44.

But you do get some biblical commentary based around this stuff. I've never really thought much of the technique myself though.

>> No.41115559


He showed us a clip from this movie. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi_(film)Specifically, where the Jewish guy teaches the MC about Gematria. The example he gave involved parents but I don't remember the specifics as it was a long time ago.

Any other interesting bits in Gematria?

>> No.41116053


Not offhand. I remember studying a bit about it in Hebrew School, but I was never really enamored by the technique. It seemed to me to be one of those things where you see what you're looking for.

That, and one of the teachers was fascinated by this one biblical commentator who used it a lot. And often got his sums wrong. And was unamused at my explanation that he was simply bad at arithmetic.

>> No.41117316

I don't think that you know Hebrew symbology, otherwise that fig tree would make far more sense. Fig trees were one of the plants in the Promised land, and also represent the coming of the Messiah. Jesus expected the fruit to be beared out of season, signifying that this is not the season for the Messiah. When he returned along the path, the tree gave fruit, symbolising that it was time. The Bible is an interprative text, looking at the literal is the worst idea possible.

>> No.41117342


Not him, but I'm not aware of any Hebrew symbolism connecting the fig tree with the Messiah.

It's more commonly associated with the Tree of Knowledge, given that Adam and Eve make clothes out of fig leaves right after eating the forbidden fruit.

>> No.41117417

To be honest, symbols are so numerous that The Bible can be used as an allegory for anything. It mostly depends on what you are looking for. Hence it not being a literal story, since there isn't much evidence that parts of it happened.

>> No.41117467
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>> No.41117479

Well, the jews in the bronze age sure loved their incense.

And by incense I mean DMT and cannabis.

Leave it to fucking stoners to come up with stupid symbolic shit that can apply to everything.

>> No.41117544

Having grown up in a unitarian denomination, have never understood the difference between the father and the holy ghost. I understand that the son is supposed to be Jesus, but the other two just seem like the same thing to me.

>> No.41117555

It also symbolised the end of days, God's Kingdom and Genesis. Like I said, fucking everything's a symbol. That fucking bird, symbol. I saw somebody reference the biblical implications of a sandwich once, and it was relatively well cited. That said, whatever anybody wants to believe is fine, but taking anything but the symbolism and lessons from The Bible sort of defeats the purpose

>> No.41117586


The first book of memes.

>> No.41117601

Does this mean God is the first and greatest of trolls?

>> No.41117625

God is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end of all Trolls.

>> No.41117641

I would have thought Satan would know more about his former master.

>> No.41117655

Knew it.
>I would have thought Satan would know more about his former master.
He didn't know all of the personal details.

>> No.41117690
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Castiel isn't even the best angel in his own show.
He is a pretty loving top for Dean, though.

>> No.41117764


Current master, if the Book of Job is any indication.

>> No.41117863

>transitive property of equality
>you can see clearly in >>41114306 that X, Y, and Z are distinct elements of the same set A
0/10, see me after class

>> No.41119450

>Like Father is "1", Mother is "1"
Well Father is "Avot" and Mother is "Imahot" iirc. No way the letters in either of those add up to just one.

>> No.41120324

True, she IS a commoner.
Can't have a very good fort save.

>> No.41120337


Technically, those are both plurals. Avot is fathers, Imahot is mothers.

>> No.41120377

Frogs are reptiles.
Snakes are reptiles.
Frogs are not snakes.

>> No.41120405

>Personal interpretations are worthless in determining the author's intent.

Anon have you missed literary theory class for the last fifty+ years?

>> No.41120427

Frog are amphibians, dumbass.

>> No.41120436

The point still stands.

>> No.41120806

All this mental gymnastics to justify the Trinity. Why not do like Islam. Jesus, moses, noah, abraham, etc are just humans elevated to prophethood. They are God's agents of change on Earth. They are born, grow up, eat, drink, shit, have sex, and can die.

>> No.41120840

>He made a creation with free will and gave her the choice.

An omniscient being would have known that shit was certain to happen.

>> No.41120895


Because if you don't claim Jesus is divine, you have trouble coming up with any reason whatsoever to abrogate the old Mosiatic Law.

This way, they only have to come up with a reason why God changed His mind, not with the question of "Hey, you can't actually do that".

>> No.41121144

There's also the whole 'sacrifice to end all sacrifices' thing. Would be a little silly if we only had to sacrifice one dude to save all humanity.

>> No.41121185

I've actually heard that the fruit from the tree of knowledge was supposed to be a pomegranate, instead of an apple or a fig. Not sure why, but it's just something I've heard.

>> No.41121218

Literally cancer

>> No.41121372


Immigrationstest für Bayern, schnell

>> No.41121485


>> No.41121580

That he did. The fact that he knew she was an idiot that would disobey the command is not a reason to be okay with disobeying a command. On the contrary, events are set up to use our shitty choices to further God's plan. The exodus from Egypt, for example, the well known story of Jonah, and even the story of Jesus's life. They all exemplify the fact that God uses the failings of people to do good works, but they do not give justification for the shitty choices that were made by the people involved.

We have free will, but God has set things up so that when he wants to do something, it will usually be done through the actions of people actively trying to prevent it. This doesn't offer credit to the people used, it's just a way to further exemplify his own abilities. Claiming that someone doesn't deserve to be punished for disobeying God because God knew before hand is like saying the player doesn't deserve to fall into the pit trap placed in the room he just sprinted into while blindfolded because the DM knew he would fall, except at the bottom of the pit trap is a Rube Goldberg machine that ends up helping the players.

>> No.41121729

>except at the bottom of the pit trap is a Rube Goldberg machine that ends up helping the players.
I'm using this

>> No.41122094

So we have free will, but the only meaning our choices have is how many points for the afterlife we get?

>> No.41122138


Serbians detected.

>> No.41122170

God is a Killer DM, tho.

If he knows for a fact you will fail and sets the trap anyway, he isn't actually being sporty, you know?

>> No.41122183

The only thing I wanna know is why anyone would leave the big red button near someone who's incapable of comprehending that they're being lied to.

>> No.41122521

He places the trap there knowing you will fail it, but he also knows that you fail it because of your choice. Knowing your choice before you do does not mean there is a lack of choice, nor does it place any of the consequences or responsibility for that choice anywhere but on the person that made it. Removing the trap would be a removal of choice. Instead, he makes the results of that trap bring about good deeds. The sins of the Pharisees were used to bring about the world's salvation, but they still nailed the Messiah to a stick. Killing a good thing for the loot isn't any less evil just because you gave some of the loot to an orphan.

You don't get points at all. None of the things you have done is enough to get on his good side, and you are currently sinning, as we speak. Just now, you did it again, and again.

Getting to heaven doesn't involve a score, it's a Yes/No situation. Have you accepted Jesus as your savior?
Yes: Go to Heaven
No: Stop, do not pass go, do not collect your harp, go directly to the Hell

Thing is, Hell is never described as a flaming place of endless torment and torture. It's never really described at all (by anyone with any real authority on the matter, that is, catholic sources be damned). There is the Lake of Fire, but that's a different place built to hold Satan and may or may not be related. Best guess for what Hell actually is is that it is simply a place where God does not touch. It's literally "under the rug", a place where he purposefully does not look or interact with, and is reserved for those who choose, at their own detriment, to refuse him.

In what way?

>> No.41122780

He gave the same patch of dirt to three different people's and told them they were his chosen.
what do you think?

>> No.41122791

If he already knows the outcome, then how can I make a choice?

>> No.41122849
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>> No.41122914

By choosing. I'm not sure why this is difficult to understand.

Do you want to get into Heaven Y/N?
Choose. He will abide by that choice no matter what it is, even if it is to your own detriment.

>> No.41123076

Why does the concept of sin exist?
Why is the existence of sin a necessary by-product of free will?
Why wasn't reality designed in such a way that it's possible to make choices without sinning?

>> No.41123215

Sin is the absence or defiance of God's will. In order to have free will, we must have the option to make bad choices. Accepting God doesn't mean much when there isn't another option.

>Why wasn't reality designed in such a way that it's possible to make choices without sinning?
That would be Heaven. You can choose to go there if you want.

>> No.41123220

>Do you want to get into Heaven Y/N?
Somehow I doubt that's the only requirement.

>> No.41123308

If you accept Jesus as your savior and let him into your heart, you get in.
That simple.

>> No.41123366

>Sin is the absence or defiance of God's will.
So, sin wouldn't exist if god had no will?

>In order to have free will, we must have the option to make bad choices.
Why? Why can't we be given a choice between two good options?

>Accepting God doesn't mean much when there isn't another option.
Why does accepting god need to carry meaning?

>That would be Heaven. You can choose to go there if you want.
Does this imply that there is no such thing as free will in heaven?

>> No.41123427

so that means I could kill half the world population, destroy our natural habitat and be as much of an ass as I want as long as I accept him into my heart at the end?
And If I would foster understanding, save millions and try to be as good as I can but I reject Jesus I wouldn't?

>> No.41123501


>Does this imply that there is no such thing as free will in heaven?

The rest of your post is meaningless bullshit and troll but this part is right though, from what we know you will literally be stoned as hell and singing God's glory 24/24 7/7.

>> No.41123527


If you are a protestant the answer are yes and no. If you are a catholic no or half an eternity in purgatory and yes. In short, all protestant heretics should be burn at stakes.

>> No.41123628
File: 479 KB, 640x432, 1434475732015.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>In short, all protestant heretics should be burn at stakes.
>yfw you're a Protestant

>> No.41123684

The choice that you have been given is if you want to accept God or not. That is the choice. There are not two or more gods, so the choice is not between them, it is if you want to accept the one that created you or not. You can dance around that with theoretical what if questions, but they won't result in anything happening.

What else would you propose the choice be between that is also "good"?

Heaven is where you have already made the choice, and are now reaping the benefits.

We were literally built to do that. We go through life desperately looking for things to worship. Most people settle on money and Hollywood actors and end up miserable.

Technically yes, but if you are gaming the system then the choice hasn't really been made wholeheartedly. Part of the process is repenting for your sins, which is a personal thing between you and God, and has little to nothing to do with any people you may have wronged in the past. If your plan is to go kill people and be an asshole with the intention of being sorry later, you're not actually sorry. Repentance is painful, the kind of thing that makes you a blubbering mass of tears and mucus.

Likewise, no work is good enough to get into heaven, which is why Jesus died in the first place. You literally cannot be good enough. If you plan on being judged by your works, you have no chance. The works flow from salvation, they do not lead to it. A saved man helps others because he loves them and wants to help them, not because he's trying to earn his way into heaven. Likewise, I'm telling you this because I want you to get into the club, not because I have a quota like some kind of pyramid scheme.

>> No.41123763

Because doing good works has nothing to do with it, of course.
I mean, that's ridiculous, why should I be rewarded by an omnipotent being for being a good person if I didn't believe that his son was his son.

You're not describing a benevolent god here.

>> No.41123802
File: 126 KB, 480x608, Will you fight.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

You do realize that in his youth, Jesus was an angry little shit, right? He used to explode snakes and curse people to harried by birds for days on end or other such crazy bullshit until his step-dad got him to a temple where they chilled him the fuck out.
>Really sums up the whole religion, doesn't it?
Yeah, I prefer the ones that preach about how you should kill thy neighbor and forcibly marry his eight year old daughter. It's so peaceful and tolerant~
You worship the idea of no worship so fervently it is a religion unto itself. It is in fact worse than a religion since it is a community bound only by hate that defines itself only by what it is not.

If religious folks are the equivalent of bronies (zealous, weird rituals and terminology, evangelical conversionists, and love mass communion with bronies), then you atheistards are like those anti-brony faggots who watch My Little Pony just as religiously as the bronies and won't shut the fuck up about how much you hate it when 99% of the world just doesn't give a fuck.

You are the foulest, basest form of hypocrite.

>> No.41123895

Because you're not a good person, I think we've been over this already. You're a sinner that is sinning all the time. Nothing you can do could dig you out of that hole.

There was one person good enough to get in through works, and that was Jesus. He's holding the door open for you now, because otherwise you can't get in.

There's a reason that book was left out. No good source on who wrote it.
In fact, people at the time wrote a lot of stuff about Jesus as a kid. It was like the Light Novel fad of the time. It's about as legitimate of a source as the Divine Comedy.

>> No.41123914

Not gonna lie.
I kinda wish that there was a way to define the difference between a rational atheist (live and let live) and an irrational atheist (There is no god, and I'm gonna prove it to you [primarily through yelling])

I hate being grouped with those fucktards.

>> No.41123983

Oh, I've already made my choice. I just can't shake the feeling that this is all a ploy set up by God to extort worship from us. Especially after reading about The Tao, who figured out how to have no will, and thus be worshipped by all actions, and offended by none.

I realize that this doesn't actually change anything.

>> No.41123989

Seeing as you're attention whoring and wanting some ebin reddit upboats over what you don't even believe in, I'd place you firmly in the latter.

>> No.41123998

>There are not two or more gods


Exodus, words of the big man himself. Acknowledges He's not alone.

>> No.41124003

Can't argue if you don't understand...

>> No.41124021

I believe it was mentioned earlier that it's very self-serving to game the system, which is what you're suggesting doing.
"If you believe this you'll be let into heaven" isn't going to make people believe. It's going to make people lie to everyone (including themselves) and say they believe.

No offense meant to you, of course. It was a concept created by the church back in the dark ages to bolster numbers (and therefore donations), and has become so ingrained into the religion that people don't even realize the fallacy in it.

>> No.41124059

Wasn't that only a thing with Arianism?

>> No.41124062

>atheists are religious too
I don't know why religious people always say this.
I mean, can you just not imagine what it is like to not be religious?

>> No.41124094

Believe it or not there are religious people that feel the exact same fucking way about extremists in their super group.

>> No.41124111

Atheist is the former, antitheist is the latter.

>> No.41124119

What I'm saying is that there's a marked difference between "there is no god" atheism and "fuck you, there is no god" atheism.

The latter could technically be considered a religion because of how fervently they argue.
They also place all atheists into a negative light. To the point where it's practically a slur.

>> No.41124138

I'm not even religious and pretty apathetic to the whole debate, but you'll notice I didn't call them religious.

I called them worse than religious.

I said they are so zealous of crusaders in their antireligious cause, that it has created a cult of nonbelief that just as aggressively seeks out converts as any religion. It even has its own symbology, terminology, and various popes and prophets whose word is akin to that of any god's

>> No.41124144

Literally every religion but the one a person practices is practically a slur.
Even "I don't have a religion".

I mean, just look at catholics and protestants.

>> No.41124160

Oh, I believe it.
But they have the difference of [blank] vs [blank] extremist.
While it's true that ignorant people group the two together, that's always gonna happen, because there's always going to be ignorant people.

This is a good point, which I hadn't thought of.

>> No.41124161

>I'm not religious, but not religious people are ZEALOUS CRUSADERS
You should stop being a zealous crusader, then. I know I'm not zealously crusading.
Just chiming in when someone claims I'm being a zealous crusader when in actuality I'm eating some cheetos.

>> No.41124169

Atheists follow a dogma of hating god. That simple. Their devotion and unwillingness to learn truth is only showing of their absolute twisted version of faith.

>> No.41124180

The fact that you thing atheism needs to be a collective entity rather than a state of being places you firmly in the latter camp.

>> No.41124182

That's -antitheists- anon.
Atheists don't hate god, as they don't believe in it.

>> No.41124192

There's also apatheist for those who really honestly don't give a fuck either way.

>> No.41124207

>not religious people are ZEALOUS CRUSADERS
No, anon. Not all areligious people are evangelicals. Just YOU and PEOPLE LIKE YOU.

tl;dr: You are being the very stereotype you tried to inb4 people accusing you of being.

>> No.41124208

No. Binary solution set.

>> No.41124211

You are trying to argue the semantics of a statement that has been translated through multiple languages.

People worship things like gods all the time. They invent gods to worship. He's telling you to stop that shit and not do it.

Ironically, the Israelites were worshiping a big golden calf statue just as that rule was being made.

You should probably use a different word, like agnostic, or maybe make your own, like apatheistic to indicate that you don't actively refuse the existence of God, you just don't care.

They can lie about it all they want. It won't work. The only way in is to accept Jesus as your lord and savior. It says so numerous times, and is made abundantly clear.

And yes, the catholic church is a den of corruption far worse then the money changers that sat outside the temple. You know, the ones Jesus table-flipped over and chased out, because yes, it is using the promise of salvation in a self serving way and yes, that is bad.

I don't plan on converting people here and now, but hey, maybe someone will give it a look. It's in the book.

>> No.41124214

I don't think that.
But I'm aware that that's how people are going to view it, and have accepted that fact.

>> No.41124242

To many religious people not believing in their god or particular version of faith is the same as hating their god/faith.

>> No.41124250

I don't think you know what evangelicizing is, anon.
As it implies I came to you with this. Wheras in this scenario, you came to me claiming everyone like me evangelizing that everyone like me was a zealous crusader.

Wheras all I'm claiming is that I'm eating some cheetos.

Why don't you quit zealously crusading, anon? Eat a snack or something that makes you happy.

>> No.41124313

Well, that's quite the misunderstanding.
I don't hate things I don't believe in. That would really slow my day to day life down.

The closest I come to that is hating inanimate objects, because goddamnit that rock fell on my toe and I'm angry.

>> No.41124335

You know, I like you.
You present a wall of text, but you're very calm about it.

My personal interpretation of "accept Jesus into your heart" is to follow his lead, and accept his teachings.
After all, if there were only the one way of getting into heaven he wouldn't have gone to the trouble of teaching good will as fervently as he did.

That is, of course, my interpretation, and it varies religion to religion as well as person to person.

>> No.41124349

>Moses: "Goddamn it I can't take you people anywhere without you stopping and worshipping the first rock you pass or melting down all your gold just to make a shiner rock."
God: "Good idea, 40 years of laps around the desert for all of you."

>> No.41124381

>I don't think you know what evangelicizing is, anon.
I'll admit I'm using the colloquial degradation of the word, but that's no excuse for being a pedant.
>As it implies I came to you with this.
Ah but you did. You were the one who just randomly goes "hurr durr Christianity is all about being a hypocrite who blames everyone else for their problems" while you were, ironically enough, blaming Christianity for all of your life's problems.
>Wheras all I'm claiming is that I'm eating some cheetos.
But you're not. You're loudly proclaiming how awful religion is at the drop of a fucking brimmed hat.

>> No.41124382

There is no differnce, quite or not they are ignorant people who vale themselves in a cult of reason they don't even understand. When asked they repeat the same things, the same rejections and in the end their disbelieving is just purely faith. It's religious plain and simple.

>> No.41124395

>I didn't call them religious.
Yes you did. Why do you lie when we can all scroll up and see it?
>You worship the idea of no worship so fervently it is a religion unto itself.
>it is a religion

>> No.41124411

>Everyone: OOH, lookit that rock!

>> No.41124432

Being the Antagonist is still participating in religion.

>> No.41124434

>"hurr durr Christianity is all about being a hypocrite who blames everyone else for their problems"
the fuck?
All I asked is why religious people constantly claim atheism is a religion.

Now I'm asking why you are freaking out so very hard and demanding everyone follow your beliefs.

Chill out, guy, you seem to have a serious case of "I got in an argument once and am holding onto it for all further people I talk to about this point".

>> No.41124444

It happens most often in countries where faith can be manipulated as a political tool, because they're raised to think that way by those who have been brainwashed before them.

IE: The U.S.

>> No.41124447

>Yes you did.
You had to read literally one more sentence, you poor, illiterate monkey.

I don't know if the problem lies in poor eyesight or poor intellect, but I'll say it a third time just for you: atheists like you are not like a religion, they are worse than one.

>> No.41124456

But you did call them religious, and then said you didn't. Why?

>> No.41124461


>> No.41124469

>there's no difference
Ah, but there is a difference. You see, in the english language we have a thing called "words", and we use different words to talk about different concepts.

An anti-theist is someone who hates gods.

An Atheist is someone who doesn't believe in gods.

As you can see, it's silly to confuse one for another, as people don't tend to hate things they don't believe in.

>> No.41124470

>the fuck?
see >>41112646
That's the post I was responding to and the post you were defending, even if it wasn't you.

After all, only a blithering moron wouldn't read the reply chain to get full context

>> No.41124493

Webster's dictionary:
1 a :the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion>
b (1) :the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) :commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2 :a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices

1 :relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality or deity <a religious person> <religious attitudes>
2 :of, relating to, or devoted to religious beliefs or observances <joined a religious order>

>> No.41124497

Yet antitheists label themselves atheists. It would be more sensible to just call them radical atheists since they belong to the same collective.

>> No.41124500

Well, there are the people as you describe, but there are also people who simply didn't grow up in a religious household and as much as they would like to believe that god exists, they can't bring themselves to believe because they don't see enough evidence.

>> No.41124512

The words
>it is a religion
appeared in your post whether there were more words after them or not.

>> No.41124524

>only an idiot would have a problem with me talking out of my ass!
Look, anon, even in-context you're being a huge crusading dick about it.

All I want to know is why you people consistently say that it's impossible to not be religious.

>> No.41124540

Anon, you are literally doing everything you chastised the people you were against for doing.
Be calm and reasonable about things, don't chimp out because you are caught in your passions.

>> No.41124549

The teachings flow from the acceptance, which is why many of his teachings used the examples of seeds and fruit. His life is indeed an example to follow, but it is impossible to fulfill. Being nice does not bring about the holy spirit, but the spirit does result in being nice. Preachers that shout slurs and hate people are even worse then anti-theists. Judgment of sin is not for us to do. It's not our jurisdiction and we have no right to denounce people for living a life of sin, because we are all sinners.

That's something very few people seem to remember. When people try to shove the word of God down someone's throat, they choke on it and spit it up. It must be given, like a free sample at the store, but the salvation itself is a personal thing between you and God. Nobody else can claim you are or are not saved, and nobody has the right or authority to offer salvation or forgiveness, despite what the Pope may say.

>> No.41124566

Again, you resort to pedantry. Do you have anything at all of worth to say or are you just going to dance around strawmen?
I never said it was impossible to be religious, I said your type of person is acting like a cult that's just as bad as any religious one.

>> No.41124574

>All I want to know is why you people consistently say that it's impossible to not be religious.

Honest answer? Because they were never taught that there was an alternative, and more often than not taught that there IS NO alternative.

>> No.41124577
File: 11 KB, 558x618, 1433552706481.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I am surprised how civil this thread has been.

>> No.41124578

Oooooooh, sick pope burn!

>> No.41124599

>I never said it was impossible to be religious
You worship the idea of no worship so fervently it is a religion unto itself"

you literally said anyone who identifies as someone who does not believe in religious figures is in a religion.

You might not have meant it because you were speaking in anger, but it's quite reasonable to point out you are in the wrong here.

>> No.41124610

Even given the recent uprising of salt, Ad Hominems are rare and far between.

>> No.41124669

I'm just hoping it stays civil.

>> No.41124680

Basically protestant beliefs are the reason why a good chunk of people in the US are dick bags.

>> No.41124693

>of, relating to, or devoted to religious beliefs or observances
religious beliefs being there is no god and there is no way to change that belief. Really do you like painting yourself into a corner, just accept your religion so we can discuss it like rational people and not a child throwing a fit of not getting their way.

>> No.41124714

This thread hasn't a fucking thing to do with /tg/.

>> No.41124715


Sorry, I had to. It felt like I had stumbled into the wrong website.

>> No.41124744
File: 10 KB, 320x304, 1433523378530.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I get it, Anon.

>> No.41124756

Damnation of your immortal soul is a reflection of everything you do anon.

>> No.41124757

>and there is no way to change that belief
Hold the fuck up.
Atheists are fully willing to change that belief.
If you show them solid proof of god.

Whether this proof has to be certified testable evidence or god literally descending and giving a family sit down talk varies from atheist to atheist. But, if you CAN prove god in a testable scientific way, there's a million dollar prize waiting for you -and- my belief in whatever religion you prove.


In short, atheists don't need faith to not believe in god, they just need to look around them and see no god.

>> No.41124760

A religious observance is something that you think of actively and commonly.
I don't find myself sitting thinking "gee, there sure isn't a god"
I mostly think "what am I gonna make for dinner"

>> No.41124794

>I never said it was impossible to be religious
Of course you didn't. You said basically the opposite: that identifying as no religion is a religion. Read it again.
>You worship the idea of no worship so fervently it is a religion unto itself.
>You worship
>it is a religion
Just admit you changed your mind.
I don't worship anything. I admire, but worship is unconditional.

>> No.41124800

Whoops, missed a piece of the second one.

3 a :scrupulously and conscientiously faithful
b :fervent, zealous

>> No.41124863

By this idiot's logic, the absence of traditional games is a traditional game in itself.

>> No.41124868
File: 76 KB, 1024x683, Anglican Communion Flag.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


I'm getting distinct Lutheran vibes from Mr. Civil Walls of Jesus and Text. At the very least some kind of Protestant. Perhaps a variation on Calvinism? Or perhaps a member of the Anglican Communion

>> No.41124886

Protestant here. Yeah, I'm getting those vibes too.

>> No.41124938

Why don't we just build a space elevator?
If the bible is true, god will come and scatter our languages again, cause there is no way they could have built the tower of babel that high, which while would be shitty, would prove the existence of god.
And if it isn't, we have a space elevator for use in colonizing the moon or l4/5, and that would be pretty sweet. I don't think god would show up and do that again even if the story of babel is literally true, but I do want a space elevator to be a thing that exists

>> No.41124953

If you can believe it, I'm actually Baptist.
Southern too.

>> No.41124980
File: 23 KB, 425x340, A common tg answer.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Because scientists would find it a waste of time.

>> No.41124981

What do you mean?
Arguing about religion is the OLDEST traditional game.

>> No.41124983

Also, the last two links were of a different anon, the others you linked are me though.

>> No.41125024

Not gonna lie, pretty sure even the failed Apollo missions went higher than the Tower of Babel

>> No.41125058 [SPOILER] 
File: 28 KB, 300x748, 1436496084535.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Neat! While you aren't of the same sect as me, your denomination is still hetrodox to mine Episcopal dying race ;_;, following the Nicean Creed.

Unlike those Jehovah's Witnesses who deny the Holy Ghost,
or the Latter Day Saints who are Christians only in name

>> No.41125076

>Motherfucking space elevator
>Making all sorts of space-based research so much easier
>A waste of time
Fuck scientists

>> No.41125102
File: 1.11 MB, 305x239, 1401397792288.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>there are people on /tg/ right now who have never read Good Omens

>> No.41125124
File: 34 KB, 430x290, 1432252446807.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>Fuck scientists
I don't think they know what awesome things are.

>> No.41125176

look, it's FUCKING HARD to make a space elevator, okay?
What, you think I haven't been trying? You think I haven't been trying to get grants? To make materials that can withstand the rigors?

The best shit I have right now is not only impossible on those scales, it causes all the lung cancer and would fuck the planet's magnetosphere.

>> No.41125203

We don't even need that much effort.
Are you a Christian? Then literally move a mountain with your mind. Just do it and I'll join you.
Note how it doesn't say "if it's God's will" anywhere. You have faith, you pray, and it happens. No excuses.

>> No.41125206

just whip up some vibranium, nerd

>> No.41125211

The story of Babel and why God got angry at them was not because they ever had a chance of accomplishing it, but because they had the audacity to actually attempt it.

But yes, the story could be a symbol for what it looks like to God when you try to get into Heaven through works, or it could be a literal event, it's too far into the past to be sure and honestly, it doesn't really matter. In fact, while it may sound heretical, a lot of the things in the bible don't rely on being literal to be meaningful, especially in the first few books. The symbolism and lessons they hold are just as valuable regardless of if they actually happened or are just analogies and symbolism. People get too hung up on that I think.

Rip Episcopals.
Honestly though, I really don't like Calvanism. It's far too aggressive and emotional, relying way too much on converting people under the threat of fire and brimstone. One of the local pastors actually was an atheist for a while when he was a teen because he was just that sick and tired of Calvanists responding to his questions with something that would not sound out of place being yelled by an Ultramarine. Romans is a good book to go through for those kinds of questions regarding free will and what God wants of us and why.

>> No.41125217
File: 35 KB, 300x300, 1428859306616.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>look, it's FUCKING HARD to make a space elevator, okay?
>What, you think I haven't been trying? You think I haven't been trying to get grants? To make materials that can withstand the rigors?
>The best shit I have right now is not only impossible on those scales, it causes all the lung cancer and would fuck the planet's magnetosphere.
Okay, scientists do know what awesome things are, but can't make them due to technical problems.

>> No.41125248

>Scientists could be making giant spaceborne Magnetic Cancer Cannons to rule the world in a funny costume with, but instead they're too busy working on boring shit like space elevators
No, scientists don't know what awesome things are.

>> No.41125257

>And doubt not
Sorry bro, agnostic theist here, gotta find someone better to move that mountain for you.

>> No.41125270
File: 19 KB, 580x431, Bruised and battered, Elmo kept laughing and laughing, this horror was no nightmare... it was reality.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Shoot. This proves it. Scientists are not humans.

>> No.41125281
File: 47 KB, 460x360, babel_tower.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

but anon, I could get DOZENS more orbital weapon platforms into place with a space elevator than without it.

And, on a personal note, FUCK YOU for implying the mech fights on babel tower aren't worth it.

>> No.41125287

Like with many things, it's all the fucking Romefags fault.

In Greece and Rome, if you became enough of a bigshot or raised enough of a ruckus, people would start stating you have divine heritage. If not making you a god yourself.

It's possible that Constantine and the gang applied this sort of thinking towards Jesus to make him more palatable to the Roman citizenry. Though, I'm no theologian here.

>> No.41125347
File: 12 KB, 469x463, 1413275041051.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>if I let everyone know how butthurt the fedora meme makes me maybe they'll stop

>> No.41125379

>Scientists rule the world with orbital weapon platforms and settle disputes with mecha battles

>> No.41125492


Really this is the first guy to fedora that post

>> No.41125523

My favorite local coffee shop is affiliated with some Russian Orthodox churches or something. There are Orthodox priests and nuns there sometimes and they do some sort of mission thing.

Anyway last week there was this euphoric little cunt there wearing a shirt with "fiction" spelled out with religious symbols, sitting there on his laptop, probably posting on reddit, and just waiting for someone to give him a stern talking to.

>> No.41125557

I wish we could all give up on religious/anti-religious argument and unite around a unified boogieman again.

Like communism.
Remember russia?
They were fun rivals.

>> No.41125699

>implying the unified bogeyman of the modern age isn't terrorists

>> No.41125736

But I'm not boogied by terrorists.
And they have nowhere NEAR the propaganda engine the commies had.
And we've got NOWHERE NEAR the amount of anti-propaganda we used to.

I mean, when's the last time you saw a "he's WATCHING you!" poster?

>> No.41125770


In the U.K but it was a the government is watching poster

>> No.41125784

oh, well, I suppose the UK gets to enjoy having a boogieman then.

I'll just be over here in america, waving my flag and having nothing to really care about.

>> No.41125803

I want to know something here Christians, and don't just tell me "You're going to burn in hell." Like the street preachers that bother me here.

My situation, I'm completely non religious, and non spiritual. I went to a creationist school when I was young (four onwards for a few years) but never had a shred of faith. I remember sitting in assembly at four failing to see how any of what I was being taught was true. Anyway, long story short I've grown up amid Christians but believe nothing. I don't believe in god, infact doubt such a being's existence, but don't disbelieve in the posibility of one or more existing. After all I don't have to tools to measure or understand magic. It can't be tested, so I can't know.

However, I feel compelled to help others, and always have. Since before I was preached to. I just feel the need, and when I get some money and time under my belt I'd like to change the lives of those unfortunate enough to be born into a world not conducive to living well, via charity work, myself and directly. Even now, when I struggle to afford food for every day (luckily I get free Internet from my kind landlord) I will still give change or food to others to help them get better and I have no material possessions other than my clothes, my bike and this tablet.

Knowing this, I'm just wondering because I'm no theologian, am I hypothetically heaven material?

I'm not sure of the full criteria required for heaven. Not particularly worried either way.

I'm just curious to know.

>> No.41125833

Oh shit before I get banned again let me tie this in to /tg/

Life as an rpg system, what if we're the PCs, and we have stats and xp. Cool thought.

>> No.41125884


Basic human empathy and compassion. Mankind got to where it is today because we worked together to make civilizations. Though if you're still giving while starving, I'd suggest you reign it in.

>> No.41125906

>Knowing this, I'm just wondering because I'm no theologian, am I hypothetically heaven material?
>I'm not sure of the full criteria required for heaven. Not particularly worried either way.
If good deeds were what got you in yes. But you have to accept Christ as your savior to get in.
Why do you keep getting banned?
What this Anon said,

>> No.41125916

Man, I like christfags on average more than atheists just because atheists always fucking start shit, and I am one.
Can't we just get along? Despite all the bitching and moaning about MUH GAYS Religion and the Catholic Church have always bettered society and been the largest sources and supporters of scientific advancement.

Some atheists are cunts. Some christfags are cunts. By and large it has more to due with people being cunts than it does with religion.

>> No.41125951

>Can't we just get along?
Because some people like stirring up trouble and keeping us divided.

>> No.41125952
File: 37 KB, 479x720, FeDORARARARARA.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>A picture of a hat is not an argument.
>Don't call me out for the edgelord that I am pls

>> No.41125970

Off topic, I presume, my mind wanders far and often.

I would but like I said I feel compelled, my subconscious tells me that I'm tougher than the average human so I should protect others.

It's pretty innate for me to put myself in harms way for others.

>> No.41125983

As I mentioned above, you get to Heaven by accepting Jesus into your heart. Hell is not a punishment, it is a choice you are freely allowed to make. Your place in Heaven is not granted through works or deeds or intentions, it is by accepting Christ and having him forgive you of your sins.

Jesus says this several times. Heaven and hell are not good/bad reward/punishment, it is a choice between God and no God. Do you wish to live with God, or live alone and without him? That is the decision, and most people will choose to refuse him.

You seem like a good person, but the question of if you are going to Heaven or Hell depends on the question of if you are saved or not, and that requires you to accept Jesus. Such an act is a personal thing that only you can do, and no one can tell you if you are or not saved, as there is no way for anyone but you to know. It is a condition of you heart which blossoms into works, but is not reliant or created by works.

>> No.41126003

>Off topic, I presume, my mind wanders far and often.
Mods don't usually do that when a thread gets derailed. I guess a mod has it out for you.
>I would but like I said I feel compelled, my subconscious tells me that I'm tougher than the average human so I should protect others.
>It's pretty innate for me to put myself in harms way for others.
Sounds like you may either want to be a hero and or need to see some one. Not that is a bad thing though.

>> No.41126010

Why do you think the mythology of one culture, and a culture of shitskinned, camel-fucking towel-headed sand niggers at that, is like, the one true nature of reality and the universe? Don't you see how stupid that is?

>> No.41126018

It's like in The Ellemist Chronicles.

Toomin wanted to take a break from his godlike powers, so he created a physical body in the form of a local life form on a nearby planet, and downloaded the parts of himself that he considered most important (morals, particularly important memories, etc.) into that body, and lived a lifetime on the planet.

>> No.41126033

What if I live my life doing good deeds, helping others, etc, but on my deathbed I don't believe in god because I haven't been given evidence enough to convince me, but the second I see that Heaven and god are actually real I accept them as my savior? Is that mentioned in the bible?

>> No.41126056

How could I accept something I can't know? I'm also not sure what you mean by "into my heart."

I've wondered often if I'm missing out on something when it comes to being spiritual. I just don't know how to be honestly. The statistics say I should be believing in something, but I don't know how too.

I really ought to bust out that giant leather bound, gilt, 150ish year old king James bible I have and give it a good going over.

Had a crack at it before but all I get from it is concepts I already know.

>> No.41126069

I can't remember but I think that depends.

>> No.41126074


>> No.41126099
File: 261 KB, 600x400, 1434160699017.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Well if that isn't the most fedora tipping, reddit and /pol/ tier thing I have read today I don't know what is. Maybe bait, maybe not. Trying to derail the thread? Maybe.

>> No.41126103


no but he did temp banish angels by carving a sigil into his chest like a boss.

>> No.41126121

You're fine, dude. Different people use different tools to create the best version of themselves. Religion and spirituality is a popular and valid choice and I'm not gonna tell anyone they're wrong if it's the thing that has helped them become the best person they can be, and in fact I can see how religion and spirituality are an effective means to that end.

But if you're being the best person you can be and you're doing it in a manner different than by viewing the moral philosophies as laid down by popular faiths, that's fine. Don't sweat it.

We all good.

>> No.41126141

Dude, reddit is le social justice central.

This is /pol/. And I want it to go and stay go.

>> No.41126162

Haha, perhaps.

Yes it even goes against my own logic, but it doesn't feel wrong when I do it.

Tank syndrome I guess. I've even thought about those hypotheticals in which you picture you self in a situation where you have to choose between yourself and another being killed. If they have more life left to me or some other judged value more than me I automatically think "I'll die in their place, it only makes sense to preserve the one who can bring more than me." while another part of my brain screams "Oh shit anon, what the fuck are you doing?!"

I am seeing a couple of shrinks haha, might bring it it up again with them in more detail. Nothing else other than it being an admirable trait has been mentioned. Perhaps there is more too it.

>> No.41126172

It is mentioned, in a way, but you probably won't like it.

Romans 1: 20 "For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse."

It's simple, ask Jesus into your heart, with all your heart. While this may seem like the last place to do it, if you want I can pray with you.

It's not about statistics or what you should do because of what other people do, it's about you, you and YOUR relationship with God.

>> No.41126199
File: 53 KB, 1024x951, 1435806208138.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Gotcha, Anon.
It might just be an admirable trait. Or what you said. Who knows? Only God knows.

>> No.41126201

Ah, alright, thanks for letting me know.
Well, that's a long way off anyway so I guess we'll cross that bridge when we come to it, eh?

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