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39941898 No.39941898 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Do any sci-fi games have good stories?

>> No.39941951

>>39941898
>Note: kerrigan died on the way back to her home planet
And nothing of value was lost.

>> No.39941974

>>39941898

No, Syfy is a trash genre for overweight manchildren.

>> No.39941999

>>39941974
Thank you for your contibution, /lit/.

>> No.39942078

>>39941999
Lit is just mad that every book that people read these days is science fiction or fantasy.

>> No.39942079
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39942079

>>39941999

>implying I'm not from an even worse board

>> No.39942092

>>39941951
>Legacy of the void revels the past 2 games were just dreams

Do it Blizzard.

>> No.39942106

>>39941898
What do you mean "stories"? Good narrative? Stories based on individual games? Something else?

>> No.39942137

>>39942106

He means waifuable characters, that's all a story needs these days for people to love it.

For proof, see Frozen.

>> No.39942145

>>39941898
Like metaplots? What the fuck are you talking about

>> No.39942162

>>39942137
If "good story" means "waifuable characters" tons of sci-fi games have good story. Hell, the entire point of Mass Effect is how good the story is.

>> No.39942163

>>39942145

He's talking about video games, we don't even need other boards ;^)

>> No.39942911
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39942911

>>39942078
>Not being able to quote the entirety of human literature at will
>/lit/'s face when

>> No.39944853

>>39942092
>the past two games were actually an autistic child playing with a snowglobe

>> No.39944937

>>39944853
I'd believe it

>> No.39945237
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39945237

>>39944853
No, that was Wrath of the Lich King.

>> No.39945590

>>39941898
>Do any sci-fi games have good stories?

I'll take sarcasm for 200, OP.

>what is Xenoblade Chronicles?
>what is Resistance: Fall of Man?
>what is Halo (1-3)?
>what is Xcom?
>what is FTL?
>what is Mass Effect?
>what is Metro 2033?

Oh, and for final Jeopardy, I'll answer 'Traditional Tabletop Games'.

>what is Rogue Trader?
>what is CthulhuTech?
>what is Starwars: the RPG?

>> No.39946163

AT-43

>> No.39946248

>>39941898
Wait, when did Kerrigan die?

>> No.39946286
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39946286

>>39946248

It's a reference.

>> No.39946311

>Alpha Centauri/Alien Crossfire
>Fallout 1-2
>Tachyon: The Fringe
>Descent Freespace
>Homeworld 1-2
>Star Control 2
>Mechwarrior 2 Mercenaries
>Star Siege
>Half-Life
>Dark Forces 1-2
>Jedi Knight
>Dune II
>Deus Ex
>System Shock 1-2
>Psychonaughts
>Blade Runner
>Beneath A Steel Sky
>Dreamfall: The Longest Journey
>Papo And Yo
>The Dig

I'm sure I forgot some.

>> No.39948385
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39948385

>>39941898

Homeworld.

>> No.39948743
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39948743

>>39945237

Careful now, you might upset the Wrath-babies. Shitheads think they have seniority and that their opinion matters now.

>> No.39949004

>>39941898
Deus ex is really all that comes to my mind. Most video games in general have pretty shit story's compared to other genres

>> No.39949204 [SPOILER] 
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39949204

>>39941898
Mass effect 3

>> No.39949256

>>39949204
To be fair, the first ME was exceptionally decent.

>>39949004
is right though. Deus Ex or nothing for good sci-fi stories.
Unless you count, like, Dune's story.

>> No.39949298

>>39949256
the series was fine until the end. but that was the lead writers fault. They lost the guy who wrote the stuff about reapers in the first game. the whole "we are beyond your understanding"they used to be dark gods from another galaxy. Now they are just malfunctioning robots.

>> No.39950237

>>39949298
>They lost the guy who wrote the stuff about reapers in the first game
They didn't lose just that guy, they lost most of the original staff because the company went full retard and everyone with a pair of functioning brain cells ran the fuck away.

>> No.39950352

>>39950237
The gameplay was quite good though.
They just had to make it "deep"

>> No.39950429

>>39950352
>The gameplay was quite good though.
In comparison to what? Daikatana?

>> No.39950518

>>39950429
First two games?
ME1 was functioning enough but not all that great. Needed honing and balancing.
ME2 had dumbed down dead boring covershooting and the only decent way to play was vanguard.
3 at least improved that even if writing fell apart even more from the second.

>> No.39950543

>>39950518
1 in the first 2 hours -> well, this is enjoyable
1 past the 2 hour mark -> wait, that's it? Whatever.
2 -> this is just like one, except without the infinite bullets. Gay.
3 -> same as two.

A shitty heat clip mechanic does not quality resource management make.

>> No.39950682

>>39945590
>Halo
>CthulhuTech

you kidding me bro
at least say Eclipse Phase or something
and Alpha Centauri for video games

>> No.39950690

As awful as both SC2 campaigns were, I thought the original Starcraft and Brood War were pretty good. Pity SC2 is ruining it.

The original Mass Effect was decent, as well.

For older games, try System Shock 2 and Star Control 2.

>> No.39950721

>>39941898
Space Quest, Dune 2000, Fallout series (well, I didn't particularly like the story in 3 and tactics just had a bad story but the other games are good.), Wing commander series, Starwars KOTOH, Half life series, The Dig, Archimedean dynasty and Aquanox (but not Aquanox 2.)

>> No.39950739

>>39945590
FTL is a great game, but honestly the story ain't so great.

We see glimpses of the setting and it isn't that bad but all we know about the actual story is "The rebels are winning the war and the last hope of the Federation is to destroy their mothership."

>> No.39950755

Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 2 is okay, despite the awful ending.

>> No.39950781

>>39950690
What exactly is wrong with SC2's campaigns? They're the best part of the games so far, in my opinion.

>> No.39950826

>>39950781

The gameplay for the campaigns is fun, sure, although HotS is way too easy and doesn't have the length or branching paths WoL had, but the storyline is pretty awful, especially compared to the original and Brood War. It even destroys a lot of continuity from the original.

>> No.39950879

>>39950826
I don't agree. I feel it filled in a lot of plotholes regarding the Overmind's inexplicable behavior, at least.

>> No.39950916

>>39950826
WoL was ok. The writers knew what they wanted to do and they stuck to their idea.

HoTS was terrible. The writers had some idea as to what they want to do, tried to stick with it, but they couldn't be bothered to put effort into it, so they just bulldozed their way through the story, established character personalities and common sense.
The result was everyone acting retarded and Kerrigan doing things for the evulz.

>> No.39950945

>>39950916
>The result was everyone acting retarded and Kerrigan doing things for the evulz.
I didn't experience anything like that either.
Could you give examples? Only action she took out of generic spite seems to be killing Warfield.

>> No.39951029

>>39941898
Bad question
Real question: how do game masters create good SF stories

>> No.39951062

>>39950945
How about that entire segment where she goes fucking with the Protoss colony for no particular reason, pissing off everyone in the process.
And the part where she reinfests herself in order to gain fucking nothing.
Or the part where Horner does as she says AGAIN despite knowing exactly what happened the last time they went along with her ideas. That ended well in the end, but it doesn't make it any less dumb.
Then there's Warfield himself who acts like a retard to facilitate gameplay.

>> No.39951089

>>39942911
> Kane looks dissaproving in death

>> No.39951090

>>39950916
>WoL was ok.

>Raynor suddenly in wuv with Kerrigan
>saves her through the power of friendship
>jamaican ghosts, man
>Overmind wasn't evil, just misunderstood
>the hybrid burning legion is comming

>> No.39951119

>>39942078
I'm actually going through Les Miserables thanks to the manga adaptation.

>> No.39951131

>>39951090
>Raynor suddenly in wuv with Kerrigan

>It may not be today, it may not be tomorrow, but rest assured darling, I'm the man who's gonna kill you.

Then suddenly in SC2, he's all must save my waifu and emo about her instead of angry she betrayed and killed Fenix, who was a total bro to him. I'm still so mad about that.

>> No.39951285

>>39949256
>Deus Ex
what made is special is that the game is flexible enough to change parts of its main plot based on all of your actions like it was ran by a GM instead of just branching paths for you to take. The story was pretty much just a big evil conspiracy involving the illuminati told like in some B-Movie scifi if it was played straight. The prequel was like that too without the blatant cheeziness of the original.

A good sci-fi story i could think of is the first StarCraft. not the best but the campaign was good enough to keep me going unlike most RTS

>> No.39951365

>>39948385

Kharak.....is burning.

>> No.39951395

>>39951131
Apart from that bit the story was good.

Seriously, just leave out the love and have Raynor decide to spare her grudginly because he realizes that they need her alive to fight the thing Zeratul is trying to warn them about.

Sappy and nonsensical romance replaced by more tension as Raynor and everyone around him wonder if they are doing the smart thing and still hurl insults at Kerrigan, with their fingers on the trigger as they still don't trust her and haven't forgiven her either.

>> No.39951403
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39951403

>raynor didn't kill kerrigan

I still mad.

Fuck you Blizzard. Fuck you Metzen.

RAYNOR SWORE REEEVEEENGE!

>> No.39951409

>>39951062
>How about that entire segment where she goes fucking with the Protoss colony for no particular reason
How about that they were going to kill her off first? Justified self defense, pretty much.
>And the part where she reinfests herself in order to gain fucking nothing.
Except phenomenal psychic powers and uncontested dominion over arguably the most powerful alien race.
>Or the part where Horner does as she says AGAIN despite knowing exactly what happened the last time they went along with her ideas. That ended well in the end, but it doesn't make it any less dumb.
Horner rightfully determined she's a little less insane this time around.
>Then there's Warfield himself who acts like a retard to facilitate gameplay.
Granted, but he's on Mengsk's side, so he had to lose no matter what.
>>39951090 + >>39951131
>Raynor suddenly in wuv with Kerrigan
>saves her through the power of friendship
Because he was just talking through anger, he's had years to stew over his failures and emotions. He was in love with Kerrigan to begin with, if you remember.
And I don't think magic space macguffins are friendship.
>jamaican ghosts, man
How is that even problematic? We had an indeterminate african ghost in Brood War.
>Overmind wasn't evil, just misunderstood
This actually makes a lot of sense because if the Overmind was evil in SC, the Overmind was also a colossal idiot who did a lot of pointless, blatantly suicidal actions for no reason.
>the hybrid burning legion is comming
Already confirmed in Brood War.

>> No.39951447

>>39951403
And had three years of getting drunk to forget. A traumatized war veteran drunkard being confused about his emotions is bad writing?

>> No.39951483

>>39951447
You don't forget swearing revenge FOR YOUR BEST MOTHERFUCKING FRIEND DYING BECAUSE YOUR EX BETRAYED YOU!

>> No.39951494

>>39951483
It's a bit of a stretch to call Fenix "Raynor's best friend". They knew each other for, like, a week.

>> No.39951512

>>39951494

They've been fighting together during the timeskip between SC original and Brood War, if I remember correctly and were pretty close. The campaign spans a decent time period. Definitely longer than a week, not even counting the time between campaigns.

I'm sure Fenix is turning in his grave somewhere.

>> No.39951520

>Starcraft is now a traditional game.
I'm surprisingly OK with this.

>> No.39951536

>>39951494
Eh, Raynor and Fenix had been fighting together since... errr... that one mission where Raynor helps the Protoss fight the Zerg in Starcraft 1? Not even Broodwar?

>> No.39951544
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39951544

>>39948385
Mah kushan

>> No.39951626

>>39951409
Durand was obviously supposed to be French North African. I guess people just aren't fermilier enough France's old stomping grounds in Africa to pick up on this.

>> No.39951767

>>39950755
if it had been the full game that had been planed, I think it would have been a top tier game. sadly cuts (significant cuts) were made.

>> No.39951842

>>39951403
>>39951395
>>39951131
>>39951090


Actually, to me what was even more annoying in WoL, even moreso than Raynor's about face, is what the fuck happened to Mengsk.


It's 4 years since Broodwar. 4.5 years tops, since Mengsk launched his revolution, got his shit pushed in by the Dominion, had to use the Zerg to beat it up to win, tried to turn around and fight the zerg, got crushed horribly, and then only survived because Kerrigan pissed off to Char to brood.


But apparently 4 years of media blitzing after he re-establishes himself on Korhal for the second time (the same Korhal he only re-took by riding on Kerrigan's zerg) and suddenly everyone has forgotten recent history, and thinks that he's the only thing that can stand against the Zerg, and that his dominion is stronger than it is, and that he's all goodness and light and the shining shield protecting them from the ravenous xeno.


And didn't SC1 establish that the Zerg wiped out 9 of the 13 worlds of the Terran Dominion? Where the fuck are all these humans COMING from? The Korprulu sector humans should be basically wiped out by now.

>> No.39951875

>>39951842

"I made you a monster"

What the hell was with that line? Seriously, who would ever say that and why would he even say that under the circumstances? The writing was so damn awful. I guess it's pointless trying to make sense out of a lot of SC2.

>> No.39951905
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39951905

>>39948385
I like the way you think.

>> No.39951907

>>39951842
>And didn't SC1 establish that the Zerg wiped out 9 of the 13 worlds of the Terran Dominion? Where the fuck are all these humans COMING from? The Korprulu sector humans should be basically wiped out by now.
The Terran Dominion is only one of four human factions active in the Koprulu sector, the others being the Umojan Protectorate, the Kel-Morian Combine, and the (admittedly few) remnants of the United Earth Directorate. To say nothing of evacuees and survivors of said destruction and space pirates/mercenaries who owe no allegiances.
Also four planets is still a very good amount of planet.

>> No.39951913
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39951913

>>39941898

Zeratul: JIIIMMMM RAAAAYNOOOR! EVERYTHING IS ACCORDING PROPHECY. Everything that's happened so far and is going to happen was foretold! You must fulfill your fate!

Raynor: HOLY CRAP ZERATUL! Why is the writing so bad?

Zeratul: 'Cause we didn't have time to finish it, and its written by committee, sorry.

>> No.39951947

>>39945237
>not all of WoW
Nice try Carlos.

>> No.39952011

>>39951907

And they're also by far the biggest and most thickly populated. I have a hard time believing those 9 worlds overrun (Including Tarsonis, don't forget) weren't at least half of the sector's population.

>> No.39952035

>>39952011
Half of a lot remains a lot, but I got the feeling that by Heart of the Swarm that humans are indeed dwindling as a force, with only Raynor's Raiders remaining an active powerful faction. The true UED excluded, of course.

>> No.39952072

I think the Tiberium series had a pretty good story. Not a marvel of writing, but decent enough. Shame the final game was utter bullshit.

Then there's Deus Ex.

>> No.39952139

>>39952072
The Tiberian games kind of got gimped when EA bought them and decided that Red Alert should be cut free from the Tiberian universe and should be less alternative history with a black humour twist, and more military comedy with an alternative history twist.

Red Alert 2 should have been about the Allies fighting some kind of communist uprising in such a horrible and pyrrhic way that the UN would disband the Allies and utilize GDI in the following conflict with Nod. Which would mean that Red Alert 2 by WestWood's design would probably take a lot of inspiration of Vietnam and I guess the bushwars in South-America.

There's also the thing with the disappearance of chronotechnology, my guess is that I don't fucking know, the chronosphere went haywire and did something like teleport fucking Hanoi people included like 1km deep into the Mariana trench.

>> No.39952179

>>39942092
I actually enjoyed the wings of liberty campaign.

>> No.39952210

>>39951842
Yeah, the Terrans should just be motherfucking extinct by now.

Just Zerg, Protoss and UED.

>bu-bu-but muh good guys!

Shut up Metzen, choke on a pile of coke.

>> No.39952214

>>39952139
Which ending then leads to Command and Conquer? I find it hard that a Soviet won campaign would lead the world anywhere near a GDI, who obviously have the Soviets on board with mammies.

I really don't mind the two being seperated because it felt like a massive clusterfuck. Then RA3 happens and Red Alert is a clusterfuck anyway.

>> No.39952249

>>39951090
>>Raynor suddenly in wuv with Kerrigan
He always loved Kerrigan, which is why he deserted on Mengsk and part of why he was so determined to kill her in the first game.

Then SC2 fucked it all up.

>> No.39952251

>>39941898
Alpha Centuri.

>> No.39952285

>>39952214
The Allied ending would lead to Command & Conquer of course.

Russia being a part of the UN/GDI. Most of the third world ABSOLUTELY hating the Allies/UN.

Most anti-Western groups being driven underground. So they can easily be integrated into the Brotherhood of Nod.

>> No.39952326

>>39951913
>and its written by committee
But it's not, these are all Metzen's ideas and he's just that terrible anymore. He's basically pulled a George Lucas where he despises all of his old work and is obsessed with gushy romantic redemption stories now. It's why Warcraft, Starcraft, and Diablo alike all lost their moody atmospheres in favor of cartoony bullshit.

>> No.39952386

>>39952285
I always loved the Tiberian Dawn fluff in that regard, lovws the surprisingly detailed description of Nod influence on local terror groups as the third world geopolitics. Why I didn't mind the militia in 3, because it fit well with Nod's previous memo.

>> No.39952402

>>39951907
>tfw no UED

>> No.39952456

>>39952326
What's the explanation for the handling of the Scarlet Crusade and the Argent Crusade's campaign? Not a whole lot of redemption or romance.

Only way for it to make sense for is is that it's all one big Apocalypse Now reference. Scarlet Crusade is Kurtz, Argent Crusade is the US military, undeath is communism, the jousting arena is the playboy show and there are multiple halfway overrun shit Argent camps across Northrend to act as Do Lung Bridge. The players are of course Willard.

>> No.39952483

>>39952456
I was referring to SC2. I don't even know what the fuck WoW is up to these days. Or ever. I stopped at FT.

>> No.39952571

Blizzard is going down the shitter
I blame activision and metzen

>> No.39952591

>>39952571
I for one think people are overblowing it, SC2 was average, not bad.
A lot of it feels like "I kinda didn't like this! 0/10 worst game ever!" knee-jerk reactions to me.

>> No.39952600

>>39950518
>>39950543
Actually, you guys forgot about globalized cooldowns, which basically meant you wouldn't use 90% of your skillset and just spam the strongest ability the entire fight

ME2 and ME3 just looked flashier. They were really just shitty

>captcha literally thinks a table is a burrito
Well okay

>> No.39952640

>>39952591

It's also got a fix of Ultima 8 syndrome.

If SC2 was a totally independent game being released for the first time by an unknown studio it would be considered pretty decent tier for story, not great, but decent.


But coming from a company where people expected more, where it was THE return to starcraft after a decade, it not only had to compete with the industry standard, but with the old (much better) plot and peoples inflated expectations.

>> No.39952671

>>39952600
>>39950543
>>39950518
>ME1: EE MOO NEE TEE
>ME2: Fortification and sometimes Slowmo

>> No.39952696

>>39952640
>but with the old (much better) plot
SC1 was near nonsensical without SC2's explanations. The entire Zerg and Protoss chapters were bafflingly illogical.
Brood War had some weirdness too, like the UED expeditionary force having basically no custom equipment from earth beyond Valkyries and having to steal literally everything (including battlecruisers) from local foundries.
But the nostalgia goggles are strong in some, I suppose.

>> No.39952717

>>39952696
What SC1 and especially Brood War did so amazingly right was atmosphere. Dem Terran cinematics.

>> No.39952740

>>39952696

How were they nonsensical and bafflingly illogical? It made more sense than most of SC2 to me in terms of character and plot decisions, anyway.

>> No.39952783

>>39952740

Overmind spends massive amounts of time and resources creating "the greatest of his agents" learns that protoss can wield a power capable of disabling and potentially even killing him. Immediately decides to embark to the protoss homeworld and incarnate himself in a most vulnerable physical form on their most sacred and hallowed ground, offending collectively their entire race. Leaves said "greatest agent" behind on Char, only brings along two no-name cerebrates for 'protection' (also leaves behind Daggoth, the eldest and most combat-capable cerebrate).
Why did he even make Kerrigan? In StarCraft 1, she accomplishes absolutely nothing, yet half the Zerg campaign was protecting her and building her up.

>> No.39952791

>>39952696

What's nonsensical about it? Did you not read the manual?

Humans in the Koprulu sector are kicking around, mostly fighting each other for their own reasons. The Protoss are aware of them but not really doing much. The Zerg become aware of them and are interested because they want to incorporate a psionic strain before going full war with the 'Toss. So they attack humanity, trying to gobble up some psionic genetic material.


In the process, capture Kerrigan, turn her into infested Kerrigan: As an aftereffect, The Sons of Korhal overthrow the Dominion.

The Zerg are in waiting mode, camped out near Char waiting for their generation of psis to develop. Ohshit, Zeratul got Zasz.

1) They can't keep waiting there indefinitely, they're vulnerable in a way they never realized they were before.

2) Time to put Kerrigan to work hunting down the new #1 priority threat.

3) I now know where Aiur is, and can end this right now.


Zerg invade Aiur, things go well for them, Protoss pull a rabbit from the hat and manage to get the DT back in time to do some assassinations and turn the war around.


What part of this was hard to follow?

>> No.39952824

>>39952783
SC2 establishes that the Overmind was enslaved to the Xel'Naga and created her to escape them.

He was basically stuck on a fixed route of development, with Kerrigan being a helpful loophole he could exploit.

>> No.39952834

>>39952791
Why did the Overmind incarnate himself into a vulnerable physical form that can be annihilated? He seemed to be working perfectly fine as a metaphysical entity. Why did he have to sit his fat ass down on the exact spot that will enrage every single protoss? Some sort of symbolism?

>>39952824
Yes, I know. People complain that this is some sort of retcon, but it actually explains the Overmind's completely suicidal behavior.

>> No.39952885

>>39952696
Nothing beats magical dezergification bullshitmachine and tassadar becoming magical space Jesus just because. Pulling shit like this makes the everything completely meaningless. Kerrigan should have become a pile of goop and medulla, Tassadar should have stayed fucking dead.

>> No.39952895

>>39952885

Magic space Xel'Naga stuff can do anything was already an established part of the lore. Remember the temple in Brood War that magically deleted all the Zerg from Shakuras, harming absolutely nobody else?

>> No.39952919

>>39952834

He was always incarnated. What on earth makes you think he was a "metaphysical entity"? He's basically a bigger, smarter Cerebrate.


And he popped his ass down on Aiur because usually, the safest place to be is in the middle of your main army. And it's not like the Protoss weren't going to destroy him the second he had the ability; showing up at the Xel'Naga temple isn't any better or worse than anywhere else on the planet. Plus, with the way he absorbs and seems to half run on Khaydarin crystals (remember, it was absorbing them from the Xel'Naga that pumped the Swarm up by an order of magnitude in things like intelligence), going to a mega-crystal probably did all sorts of cool shit for his own personal abilities.
'

>> No.39952922

>>39952895
Wow I forgot that was how they saved Shakuras.

Also, I want to take a moment to appreciate how wholly ridiculous the army-production is scaled in-game, and then when you look at how it took 4.5 years for Mengsk to end up where he is, it suddenly seems that a <5min Battlecruiser is sorta canon.

>> No.39952939

>Diablo 3 was ok
>HoTS is ok
>SC2 is ok
>Overwatch looks ok
>Never played WoW
I'm still a Blizzard fan. They've hit a few missteps but there are much worse games and developers deserving of my dislike.

>> No.39952943

>>39951913
>'Cause we didn't have time to finish it,

You only took twenty fucking years!

>> No.39952954

>>39952919
>He was always incarnated
No he wasn't, he had no physical body, nothing that could be attacked, until he decided to make one on Aiur. He explicitly says in the tenth zerg mission that he can only be made manifest upon the Xel'Naga holy ground on Aiur, but declines to explain why or what purpose this will serve.

>> No.39952967

>>39952895
Was Kerrigan on that rock and did she magically get turned back into a human?
Some kind of directed magical space laser that kills anything with a specific type of DNA, sure, why not.
A magical McGuffin that kills every Zerg in the area but turns one into a human? Not back, mind you, she isn't fucking human in the first place. That thing isn't a fucking suit, she is a full blown fucking Zerg.

>> No.39952976

>>39952783

Kerrigan wiped out most of Tassadar's forces and stayed behind to mop them up, since they were the priority threat trying to deal with them while the rest of the Protoss were busy not caring at the time. It's been awhile since I've played it, but I clearly remember the mission for that, so I assume you forgot.

And the Overmind tried to strike when he saw the opportunity and nearly succeeded. As a Hive Mind, his presence bolsters their power, I thought. If he wants to maximise their chances, why wouldn't he go? I thought he brought most of them except Daggoth, who was left behind with Kerrigan on clean up duty. Basically protecting their rear.

>> No.39952995

>>39952456
>What's the explanation for the handling of the Scarlet Crusade and the Argent Crusade's campaign?

Well the Scarlet Crusade were bigots, so they're all gone now. Wiped out by Loves2spooge and his many allies on either side of the fence. The Argent Crusade tried to redempt Arthas (who was totally good, you guys! He was holding back the Scourge!) And now they're just hugging bunnies and deer in the Plaguelands while Sylvanas goes around becoming the Lich Queen. But it's probably not her fault, you guys!

>> No.39953006

>>39952954

>No he wasn't, he had no physical body, nothing that could be attacked, until he decided to make one on Aiur.

Yes he did. Remember that "new" overmind they make on Char in Brood war? That's not a metaphysical force.

Plus, look at the cinematic from post Zerg 9

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2U6TOTwl3Vo

Overmind crashes in an asteroid like thing onto the surface, he doesn't just spring up out of nowhere once they plant the crystal.

He had a fucking body, he mentions the rigors of warp travel in Zerg 2 (or was it 3? It's been a while), and how he's moved from place to place, again implying corporeality.

>> No.39953015

>>39952386
>>39952386
Consider for a moment that Command & Conquer Tiberian Dawn predicted the War on Terror, the destruction of (a) World Trade Center, and the US government getting embarrassed by weapon shipments to terrorist organisations that they're supposed to fight.

>> No.39953016

>>39952967
Heart of the Swarm further explains that the Xel'Naga artifact was specifically designed to drain energy away, not really kill things. It probably isn't even meant to kill zerg, that's just a function Narud stapled on so that Raynor would be sure to use it.
>>39952976
So he made a great and powerful agent, spending ungodly amounts of resources (he created a goddamn cerebrate for her) just to have.. a janitor? Why couldn't another cerebrate do this? Considering they made the landing and created a staging ground with just a single cerebrate's influence, he shouldn't need his presence at all, much less on the most heinous and sacrilegious location imaginable that would offend the only force that he JUST LEARNED can cause him actual lasting damaging.

>> No.39953027

>>39952696
Wings of Liberty doesn't even make sense unless you disregard Brood War. Everything in it, Raynor's change, Mengsk being on top, etc, doesn't make sense when Brood War is acknowledged. It also added the Overmind not being such a bad guy, and Protoss religiously worshiping a race that they slaughtered. WoL is the thing that made Zerg and Protoss bafflingly illogical.

>> No.39953029

>>39952954

Just because he says he's going to make himself manifest doesn't immediately imply he has no physical body, you know. I recall no instance of him or anybody saying he or it has no physical body.

Then there's the mission where they try to grow a new Overmind and it's physical as well, so the evidence points otherwise.

>> No.39953052
File: 662 KB, 768x960, KotOR_Cover.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
39953052

>>39941898
how can anyone forget KOTOR OP ?
That is like fogetting who is your father...

>> No.39953061

>>39952696
>SC1 was near nonsensical without SC2's explanations
This has to be b8

>> No.39953062

>>39950682
Halo is a reasonaby good popcorn space opera plot. Its not like its pretending to be something more, it knows what it is and does it pretty well

>> No.39953076

>>39952895
>Remember the temple in Brood War that magically deleted all the Zerg from Shakuras, harming absolutely nobody else?

Yeah, I remember when they did that in Stargate SG-1 as well.

>> No.39953078

>>39953006
Cited directly from Zerg 10, StarCraft:
"The temple must be cleared, and the Khaydarin Crystal set in its place. Only then shall the way be made ready. For it is upon that ground alone that I may be manifest."
If he was already manifest, this sentence is completely nonsensical. What landed is only the beginning of his manifestation, on the holy ground. He had nothing before that was generated.
>>39953029
Equally nothing implies he ever had flesh until that moment.
The second Overmind isn't the real Overmind, it's just an uber-Cerebrate made of multiple cerebrates.

>>39953027
And SC1 doesn't make sense without SC2, so Brood War is the ill-fitting one, it seems.

>> No.39953084

>>39948385
music was top notch in that game, wish i could find more like it

>> No.39953092

>>39952939
When the HotS servers were down, I had to play LoL to get my daily fix.

Never again.

>> No.39953094

>>39953016

And didn't you notice how the second Kerrigan is fully "adult" in her reborn form, they suddenly know about the DT on Char, which had been hiding, right under their noses, for most of Kerrigan's developmental cycle?


Think that might be a bit useful? The Overmind is scared of the protoss, or at least wary, especially because they have powers he can't even perceive, let alone measure. Kerrigan's primary purpose is to gather enough information to even make a strategic calculation.

>> No.39953099

>>39953062
It feels like it should be a 90s action movie staring kurt russel

>> No.39953102

>>39952939
I bet you weren't even born when Blizzard dropped Warcraft.

>> No.39953104

>>39953094
If he's scared of the protoss, why does he immediately incarnate himself in a mortal body the second he learns they can harm him, for fuck's sake? Why not send Kerrigan to spearhead the attack onto protoss ground, instead of leaving her behind on Char during the most crucial and dangerous operation he would ever undertake?

>> No.39953107

>>39949298
>implying they weren't always retarded cuttlefish with delusions of grandeur

>> No.39953114

>>39953052
I can't forget something I never even played.

>> No.39953116

>>39953092
I'm sorry.

>>39953102
Born in '88, nice projecting though :)

>> No.39953119

>>39953078

Manifest on the fucking planet you fucking retard.

See the video. The one I already linked to. He crashes into the surface from orbit or deep space. He had a body.


You're drawing this completely ridiculous assumption, that he had no body, when NOTHING else in the Zerg swarm functions like that, from ONE statement that is clearly metaphorical. And then your interpretation is contradicted by video evidence from that same exact mission.

>> No.39953129

>>39942078
>implying there are no profound sci-fi books

>> No.39953133

>>39952783
>>39952834
>doesn't know shit about SC lore
>tries to argue it anyway
christ

>> No.39953135

>>39953104
Because Metzen is a hack and no one on the Blizzard dev team has the balls to call Metzen out on his bullshit from the tops of Mt. Cocainum.

>> No.39953137

>>39953104

>If he's scared of the protoss, why does he immediately incarnate himself in a mortal body the second he learns they can harm him, for fuck's sake

He always had a body.

>Why not send Kerrigan to spearhead the attack onto protoss ground, instead of leaving her behind on Char during the most crucial and dangerous operation he would ever undertake?

Because the DT are a confirmed threat to his existence. The rest of the 'toss are only a potential one. Killing the Dark Templar is the higher priority.

>> No.39953141

>>39953016

Because he thought Tassadar ans his forces were the primary threat? And he was right, since him and Zeratul were the ones with the active army trying to defeat him and discovered the only power that is apparently able to kill him. Why not have your strongest cerebrate and strongest creation deal with that while you go conquer their planet with the ones who don't have said power or said army?

Him leaving and then going to their planet without Kerrigan noticing or following is the real question you should be asking. I don't remember how or why that happened. I guess he just fled stealthily or something.

And he's there to conquer them. His influence is going to be much better than anyone else's. Why wouldn't you go for their most holy site? It's a show of force. It's an all out war here, not a covert operation at that point.

Again, the protoss can't do anything to him. It's Tassadar's splinter group, who as far as he knew, were being dealt with by Kerrigan and Daggoth on some other planet. The rest of the Protoss had no idea what to do until Tassadar arrived.

I always just thought it meant he put too much faith in Kerrigan to eliminate Tassadar, so assumed he would be safe and she would kill him or at least keep him occupied back there while he took care of business. Or that Kerrigan purposefully let Tassadar escape and head back home to kill him because she wanted to take control of the Zerg in full for herself.

>> No.39953156

I think that what we can gather from this is that the Overmind didn't do, or say, anything that made a lot of sense, and according to SC2 this is because he was 2scared4voids and maybe autistic. Kerrigan was his perfect waifu made to protect him from the scary Protoss and Fallen One.

>> No.39953162

>>39953078
>And SC1 doesn't make sense without SC2
Maybe if you're a mongoloid retard

>> No.39953163
File: 82 KB, 1024x575, Grey_goo_war_is_evolving.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
39953163

I liked Grey Goo...

>> No.39953167

>>39953133
>implying there's any SC lore left after Metzen decided to retcon fucking everything with StarCrap 2: Wings of My Fanfic

>> No.39953168

>>39953141

Or possibly even that he wanted to be far away from the one thing he knew could kill him.

>> No.39953171

>>39953078

You're taking manifest out of context. He means manifest himself on the planet. I don't know why you would think otherwise.

What proof do you have that the second Overmind is any different, other than your assumption?

>> No.39953179

>>39953167
What's sad is the autist ITT defending SC2 as being somehow better written and not crammed full of shitty retcons.

>hurr the overmind never had a body before
It's like this underage kiddie never read the manual.

>> No.39953193

>>39949204
All three MEs were pretty neat. Only 3´s ending was weird

>> No.39953214

>>39953078
SC2 does a great job of making sense of things. I liked the completely understandable part where Kerrigan goes to the feral Zerg homeworld and starts absorbing dragon souls to become the chosen one. That certainly supported nothing from previous games, except maybe validating the new religious side of the Protoss. You know, where they venerate the alien race they themselves united to destroy.

>> No.39953225

>>39953119
Even granting if he had an original body, there is no given reason he needs to sit it down in the most heretical manner offending all protoss. And again, that video doesn't say it was his manifestation at all, and I already postulated that it could be the very beginning of his manifestation since it was only then that the way was made clear.
"Clearly metaphorical" my ass. Your video proves nothing.

>>39953137
>>39953141
So he again puts himself in a most vulnerable position in the deepest enemy territory possible.. why?
I for one think the explanation "he was literally trying to die" seems much more consistent than "um he makes the other zerg stronger and it's a show of force I guess, the protoss will totally back down if I vomit my horrible spew over their most sacred land".

>>39953133
>>39953162
Yeah that's a good argument.

>>39953171
That doesn't follow. Why would he "manifest" himself on a planet and not just, fucking land on it?

>> No.39953227

>>39953168

Exactly. The ones who could kill him were right there, so he leaves behind his great creation, who isn't so vulnerable to them, to deal with them and he himself fucks off lightyears away to fuck over their homeplanet that is full of the Protoss that CAN'T harm him. It made sense and was pretty easy to follow.

The real question is how they got away from Kerrigan and followed him anyway. Is it because Kerrigan is either incompetent or a traitor. It's been awhile since I played it, but was that ever explained or hinted at more?

>> No.39953228

>>39953179
If the Overmind had no physical body, why did SC1's campaign show a picture of him?
Checkmate Protoss

>> No.39953236

>>39951512
You remembered wrong and you are an idiot.

Fenix and Raynor only met in mission homeworld, which goes straight to over mind fight then immediately into broodwar.

So yes they only knew each other for a few weeks.

>> No.39953243

>>39953225
>in the most heretical manner
>Xel'Naga temple

Just shut up, idiot. SC2 has filled your head so full of shit that you don't even understand stuff blatantly spelled out to you.

>> No.39953251

>>39953236
And became BFFs in that time.

>> No.39953252

>>39953225
>Yeah that's a good argument.
Definitely on par with yours.

You're either incredibly dumb or a really good troll.

>> No.39953260

>>39950755
I liked the first one better

>> No.39953264

>>39953227
And yet it was already made clear at that point that khalai protoss can wield dark templar energy (Tassadar was already taking lessons), so that's just not true. The protoss of Aiur could still harm him, far as he knew.
Also, it was because Kerrigan was incompetent, Tassadar outmaneuvered her at every step. But even still, the Overmind made no move to bring Kerrigan to him, despite being an oh-so-great agent.

>>39953243
The Overmind himself literally says it's their most sacred ground in SC1, so that's bullshit.

>> No.39953270

>>39953225
>Why would he "manifest" himself on a planet and not just, fucking land on it?

Because he's a fucking alien hivemind retard who speaks in flowery purple prose like every bad guy? He's so shit he needed to make cerebrates because he couldn't even micro all the Zerg by himself, of course he's going to use faggy metaphors and create a gross infested waifu because he's too afraid to go against champs like Tassadar and Zeratul by himself.

>> No.39953282

>>39953225
>offending all protoss
Even assuming that it would "offend all Protoss", why the fuck should he give half a shit? They stomped the Protoss' collective teeth in. They were already at all-out fucking war with them. They had already taken Aiur. If you conquer somebody's homeland and fuck everything up bigtime, then they'll be only marginally more offended when you shit in their church.

>> No.39953283

>>39953225

He's not vulnerable because he thinks none of them can hurt him. Are you even reading the posts? He had Kerrigan dealing with the real threat, and thought she was either competent or loyal enough to deal with them. The Protoss on Auir had neither the knowledge or ability Tassadar and Zeratul had.

And of course he's going to try and offend the Protoss. He's there to conquer them. If it's their most sacred place, it's probably one of the best positions of strength. Destroying and conquering not only shows your superior strength, but also gives you said position of strength to strike out from.

As for the manifest comment. The writing, particularly for the Overmind, is trying hard to sound mysterious and clever, which succeeds sometimes, comes across poorly others. I recall a few other lines with words you wouldn't normally use for the situation that don't always sound right. He's supposed to sound alien and mysterious. "Imma fuckin' land on this planet" just doesn't cut it.

>> No.39953285

>>39953270
See, that just makes his character into an idiot. I actually prefer the suicidal superbiocomputer raging against its programming in a long and complicated endeavor to die.

>> No.39953302

>>39953052

KotOR1 was pretty mediocre as a story. The only memorable moment was the shock factor of the Revan twist. Outside of that, 2 is superior in every way, even unfinished.

>> No.39953306

>>39953264
What's bullshit? The Overmind doesn't need to care that its sacred, there's a purpose to choosing a Xel'Naga site (i.e. the species that created the Zerg. Do you remember that or did SC2 retcon it?).

You've been proven wrong at every turn with things from the game and yet your persist in spouting non-nonsensical drivel.
>"W-why did the creature with a body have a body later? hurr why did he go to the planet that he'd guided the entire zerg race towards since they first took to space?"
goddamn you're dumb

>> No.39953314

>>39953285
It should, because he is an idiot. He was fighting the Protoss, all you need to do is spam hydras to win. You don't even need to micro that shit. Any cerebrate knows this!

>> No.39953324

>>39953282
He himself says it would be such an act, its his own words from SC1. He hadn't "taken Aiur" by that point at all, he was saying this as the attack on Aiur began, the temple itself was going to be their staging ground onto the rest of the planet.

>>39953283
And yet he probably learned from Zeratul's mind that Tassadar was capable of using dark templar energy and capable of harming him, so all Khalai protoss are theoretically able to. "A show of superior strength" is laughably pointless to the zerg, who seek to subjugate and infest, not eradicate.

>>39953306
There's no given purpose at all, which is the entire point I'm raising it. And again, nothing implies he has a body before the end of Zerg 9, and showing that he gets a body at the end of Zerg 9 is just.. completely missing the point.

>> No.39953327

>>39953214

Don't forget that it directly contradicts the manual for SC1

>Travelling thousands of light years into the
burning core of the galaxy, the Xel’Naga
eventually settled upon the volatile ash-world
of Zerus

I don't remember any volcanoes or ash when we went there in HoTS.

>>39953225

>Even granting if he had an original body, there is no given reason he needs to sit it down in the most heretical manner offending all protoss.

What does he give a crap about offending the protoss? You really think that if he DIDN'T land on the Xel'Naga contact point, the Protoss wouldn't kill him given a chance?

>"Clearly metaphorical" my ass. Your video proves nothing.

Yeah, that big pulsing crashing thing and then a cutscene of a new crater with the overmind rising up from it is just there for no reason.

>So he again puts himself in a most vulnerable position in the deepest enemy territory possible.. why?

To get away from Char which is even more vulnerable. To be in the middle of his main force, which is honestly the safest place for him, and not somewhere where a DT kill-team might slip in almost unnoticed. Surrounding himself with billions of zerg is a pretty good safety strategy.

>That doesn't follow. Why would he "manifest" himself on a planet and not just, fucking land on it?

Why does he speak in an archaic, almost biblical sense most of the time? Why does he talk about his "covenant" with his cerebrates when it's not an agreement dealing with land and instead just a pact for him protecting Cerebrates who serve him?

>> No.39953341

>>39953327
>I don't remember any volcanoes or ash when we went there in HoTS.

Clearly Zerg druids covered the planet in lush!

>> No.39953342

>>39953324
>nothing implies he has a body before
>"I never read the manual!"
underage kiddies pls leave

>> No.39953354

>>39953264

He was there teaching them, but the Overmind doesn't necessarily know of this until the end. It's not like he has a zerg spy he can dress up as a protoss and go to their strategy meetings to see who is there.

As for why he didn't know, it's not really established that he has long range communication with Kerrigan, or even if she would tell him considering her questionable loyalty. And when he does find Tassadar and co. on the battlefield, it's not like he can just go "oh shit, bitch failed me" and magically teleport her right there instantly.

>> No.39953369

>>39953324
>There's no given purpose at all,
>Xel'Naga temples and artifacts are demonstrably shown to still have power
Are you actually retarded or just pretending?

>> No.39953371

>>39953114
you have no life...

>> No.39953373

>>39953354
>it's not like he can just go "oh shit, bitch failed me" and magically teleport her right there instantly.

Should have infested an arbiter.

>> No.39953378

>>39953341
I can actually imagine Metzen write something like this.

Fuck, now I feel bad wasting so much time on Blizzshit games that I could have spend on I dunno Warzone 2100 and Gothic.

>> No.39953385

>>39953227

I don't think so. It's been a while for me too, but there's that mission where the DT are cornered and you have to save them with Tassadar and a few surviving terrans, and then the next thing you know you're on Aiur. Then again, it's implied through the mission before, where you have to raise a huge force and land Tass and 2 zealots at the beacon, that all of this is happening while a much bigger battle is raging outside.

Maybe she just lost track of them in all the confusion?

>> No.39953386

>>39953264

When Tassadar was taking lessons, he wasn't on Auir, I'm pretty sure. He was with Zeratul and that's when they went a cerebrate hunting elsewhere, before Kerrigan went ahuntin' them in return as the Overmind went to Auir.

>> No.39953395

>>39952591
Sounds every other game release ever.

Gaming community is the worst bunch of raging brats

>> No.39953407

>>39953327
>What does he give a crap about offending the protoss? You really think that if he DIDN'T land on the Xel'Naga contact point, the Protoss wouldn't kill him given a chance?
Instead, he makes them all want to kill him, even the dark templar, and gives them a massive chance to by making himself mortal.
>Yeah, that big pulsing crashing thing and then a cutscene of a new crater with the overmind rising up from it is just there for no reason.
Oh so he gets a body at the exact moment when he says he can finally get a body. This clearly means he always had a body before this moment! Bullshit.
>To get away from Char which is even more vulnerable. To be in the middle of his main force, which is honestly the safest place for him, and not somewhere where a DT kill-team might slip in almost unnoticed. Surrounding himself with billions of zerg is a pretty good safety strategy.
Why bother with personally going to Aiur at all? Retreat to some fortress world as the invasion is underway. Send Daggoth.
>Why does he speak in an archaic, almost biblical sense most of the time? Why does he talk about his "covenant" with his cerebrates when it's not an agreement dealing with land and instead just a pact for him protecting Cerebrates who serve him?
Because he's covering up what he actually means by pretending there's some higher purpose, which there isn't, which is consistent with SC2's "revelations"?

>>39953354
>He was there teaching them, but the Overmind doesn't necessarily know of this until the end. It's not like he has a zerg spy he can dress up as a protoss and go to their strategy meetings to see who is there.
He literally saw into Zeratul's mind and learned everything Zeratul knew. Zeratul, who was the dark templar teaching Tassadar dark templar powers.

>it's not really established that he has long range communication with Kerrigan
He has long range communication with ALL Zerg! He is the goddamned Overmind!

>> No.39953421

>>39953407
>He has long range communication with ALL Zerg! He is the goddamned Overmind!
Then why did he even need Cerebrates?

>> No.39953433
File: 28 KB, 402x720, 1387867880905.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
39953433

>>39953285
This is MUCH closer to canon than whatever the fuck is being argued about in this thread.

Kerrigan was left behind because, when he died and was no longer sending the Zerg to be the army of some crazed fucking alien not!Reapers to have sex with, she would save the species and all that jazz.

The Overmind legitimately just wanted his beloved Zerg to not go extinct. Considering he's their god who was programmed to get them all killed (and was painfully aware of it as Zeratul's Plot-Device revealed), things kind of make sense.

>> No.39953435

>>39953386
And yet they were able to withdraw with apparent ease, considering.. all the time the entire Protoss campaign takes up and Kerrigan never being called down to Aiur.

>> No.39953439

>>39953324

The Xel'naga temple, as shown in the end of the Protoss brood war campaign, is shown to have the ability to wipe out all infestation upon the entire planet with the crystals.

Explain to me why it makes sense to not target this tower with the ability to cleanse an entire planet of zerg as an immediate priority?

Nothing implies that he doesn't have a body either. Your only argument for this is one word in a sentence that you're simply misinterpreting due to admittedly iffy dialogue. That's it.

>> No.39953458

>>39953433
>implying SC2 is canon

Metzen's cocaine fever hallucinations funded by Acti-jew-sion shekels don't count as canon.

>> No.39953459

>>39953421
They were there so that he could free up valuable processing power strategizing and creating new Zerg strains, iirc.

Imagine comm-beacons that also were able to take over when Overmind needed to do something else, so he didn't have to hold everyone's hand.

>> No.39953465

>>39953433
It's a complete retcon and clash of actual canon, but whatever you need to tell yourself.

>> No.39953471

>>39953421
Cerebrates are his nodes for direct communication. Kerrigan had a cerebrate with her at all times, he made a cerebrate for that explicit purpose.

>>39953369
>>39953439
Nobody said Xel'Naga temples are created equal, they run on spacemagic. Many more xel'naga temples with differing levels of effects are seen in the novels and such.
>Nothing implies that he doesn't have a body either. Your only argument for this is one word in a sentence that you're simply misinterpreting due to admittedly iffy dialogue.
Nothing implies he does have a body either.

>> No.39953476

>>39953015
But there had already been the first World Trade Center bombing, and the US getting embarrassed by arming terrorists/paramilitaries/fascists/dictators etc was also old news. See Iran-Contra, for example.

>> No.39953478
File: 11 KB, 296x183, 11140402_491250467695803_2595830939376178026_n.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
39953478

>>39953458
>i don't like it so it isn't canon!

>> No.39953497

>>39953465
It's better writing than the overmind being a douche taking suicidal actions for no reason.

>> No.39953498

>>39953471
>>39953459
So he had direct communication with ALL Zerg... if they were near a cerebrate.

>> No.39953503

>>39953435

The Protoss are shown to have access to teleportation technology, though, so that makes sense. The Zerg's technology in that regard is never shown to be on par. There's a reason they want to assimilate them, after all

>>39953407

He learns of this from zeratul, and the location of Auir, when they are NOT ON AUIR.

Which is yet another reason why he leaves Kerrigan there to deal with them and goes to Auir, and leaving the people who could harm him, Tassadar and Zeratul, behind on another planet.

And Kerrigan is a special case when it comes to Zerg. We see her operating independently and even without much concern for the Overmind.

>> No.39953515

>>39953498
Which Kerrigan always was.

>>39953503
And yet when Tassadar and Zeratul leave Char not very long afterwards (see: the entire duration of the Protoss campaign), Kerrigan isn't retrieved and reallocated.

>> No.39953524
File: 179 KB, 505x799, Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-S33882,_Adolf_Hitler_retouched.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
39953524

>>39953497
Yeah, who ever heard of a leader doing that?

>> No.39953552

I hate how everybody just thinks good writing = coherent plot. The latter is only a (small) part of the former.

>> No.39953553

>>39953471
>Nothing implies he does have a body either.

>even though the manual directly references his physical form being protected by an elite brood
Seriously, just fuck off with your retcons

>> No.39953557

>>39953524
It's just lame. I find a powerful biocomputer taking a long and twisted path on the road to suicide to be better writing than that.

>> No.39953558

>>39953407

>Instead, he makes them all want to kill him, even the dark templar, and gives them a massive chance to by making himself mortal.

They kind of all wanted to kill him before. Remember Chau Sara?

>Oh so he gets a body at the exact moment when he says he can finally get a body. This clearly means he always had a body before this moment! Bullshit.

Clearly, the Zerg taking the temple allowed his body to crash in from space and hit that exact spot [/sarcasm]

>Why bother with personally going to Aiur at all? Retreat to some fortress world as the invasion is underway. Send Daggoth.

Splitting your forces, especially when your enemies can detect you over long distances, and slip into things relatively easily, is a bad tactical move. Staying within the heart of your own power is generally safest, and has been noted since at least Machiavelli, and probably earlier.


>Because he's covering up what he actually means by pretending there's some higher purpose, which there isn't, which is consistent with SC2's "revelations"?

Missed the point, retard. A "Covenant", is, in modern English anyway, is an incidental promise contained within a deed to real estate. Clearly, the Overmind wasn't selling swamp property on Zerus to the player's cerebrate. He speaks very figuratively, and with a lot of archaism. Deal with it.

>> No.39953576

>>39953557
Well, if you take over a decade you can probably use a sequel to fix(retcon) any bad writing you have.

>> No.39953578

>>39953497
>crushing Aiur and following his centuries-old plan to assimilate the Protoss
>"it's suicide because he couldn't anticipate Tassadar and Raynor getting lucky enough to get near him!"
0/10

>>39953557
>being suicidal for a different, edgier reason is better
christ

>> No.39953585

>>39953471

> Kerrigan had a cerebrate with her at all times, he made a cerebrate for that explicit purpose.

Uhm, wrong. The same cerebrate who watches over Kerrigan is the one who YOU play in Zerg 9 and 10, i.e. leading the vanguard of the Zerg in the attack on Aiur. You're not with her at all times.

>> No.39953600

>>39953578
He shouldn't have been so suicidal, otherwise he would have predicted that other guy's literal suicide attack on him!

>> No.39953604

>>39953214
Where are the Protoss worshipping the Zerg? Or do you mean the Xel'Naga, who were always venerated (and against whom the Protoss neither united nor destroyed)?

>> No.39953605

>>39953558
>They kind of all wanted to kill him before. Remember Chau Sara?
And he has to give them an obvious location.. why? Even if he had a body before, and he wanted to be safe from the protoss, why sit down on Aiur at all?
>Clearly, the Zerg taking the temple allowed his body to crash in from space and hit that exact spot [/sarcasm]
Doesn't seem at all nonsensical to me. Completely follows all the other spacemagic of the setting.
>Splitting your forces, especially when your enemies can detect you over long distances, and slip into things relatively easily, is a bad tactical move. Staying within the heart of your own power is generally safest, and has been noted since at least Machiavelli, and probably earlier.
So keep his ass in orbit and not launch it down into the heart of the protoss civilization. Fuck.
>Missed the point, retard. A "Covenant", is, in modern English anyway, is an incidental promise contained within a deed to real estate. Clearly, the Overmind wasn't selling swamp property on Zerus to the player's cerebrate. He speaks very figuratively, and with a lot of archaism. Deal with it.
There's no point here to be had at all. He speaks flowery, therefore we can ignore one meaning of one sentence and must take everything else at obvious value? He's lying through his teeth at the cerebrate the whole way.

>> No.39953621

>>39953578
Boo to yourself. He's supposed to be highly intelligent and unfathomably psychic, which allows precognition, so yes, he should be anticipating fucking everything.

>> No.39953633

>>39953585
There are other cerebrates. Unless he left her all alone on Char, which is even more nonsensical.

>> No.39953647

>>39941974
Aw man. I'm triggered :( my dad used to read me science fiction as a child. My love for reading stemmed from War of the Worlds, Twenty Thousand Leauges Under the Sea, The Left Hand of Darkness, and Dune.

I'm gonna go get fat and continue reading science fiction.

Jerk.

>> No.39953655

>>39953604
Did I misread the part in the Starcraft manual about the Protoss tribes uniting and driving the Xel'Naga off of Aiur?

>> No.39953656

>>39953621
>he should be invincible unless he's suicidal
quality SC2 writing

>> No.39953660

>>39953605

>And he has to give them an obvious location.. why? Even if he had a body before, and he wanted to be safe from the protoss, why sit down on Aiur at all?

Because he's in the middle of his own force, and on the one planet that the Protoss probably wouldn't go all death star on.
Why did Octavian stay with his army despite not being a battlefield commander during the civil war? It could be dangerous on the front lines, sure, but it's also safest to remain at the point of your greatest strength. Which is on Aiur for the erg.

>Doesn't seem at all nonsensical to me. Completely follows all the other spacemagic of the setting.

You mean the spacemagic that gets made up in SC2? He's got a body, it's referenced in the manual, you see it flying through space. You are seriously in denial.

>So keep his ass in orbit and not launch it down into the heart of the protoss civilization. Fuck.

Yeah, the Protoss totally don't have spaceships or anything.

>He speaks flowery, therefore we can ignore one meaning of one sentence and must take everything else at obvious value?

He speaks flowery, therefore "manifest" might not mean the incredibly narrow and stupid meaning you give it, especially when it's obviously contradicted in other places.

He might, you know, be speaking to habit, and being flowery yet again.

>> No.39953662

>>39942078

>Every book people read these days are science fiction and fantasy

What the hell is widespread sci-fi and fantasy aside from Game of Thrones, Harry Potter and some third thing?

Did these become non-niche when I wasn't looking?

>> No.39953664

>>39953621
Then why did the Zerg lose SC1 and did the Protoss win?

>> No.39953669

>>39953515

They're not there for the entire protoss campaign. It's about the midway point.

The Overmind is pretty powerful, but just because they've arrived, doesn't mean he knows they are there until they reveal themselves. Remember, it was made a plot point that he had trouble detecting them. They also have advanced stealth technology and teleportation technology.

Again, Kerrigan is a unique case, we don't know if he's able to contact her so easily, or even if she would care considering I still think she wanted him to die so she could assume full control of the Zerg. And even if she was going to, they don't have the teleporting technology that the Protoss have, so she is unable to arrive at the same time.

He left here there to deal with them because she was his most prized creation and they were the only threat to him. He was vulnerable to them, she wasn't. She deals with them, he deals with Auir away from the threat that can kill him.

She fucks it up, either because of arrogance or betrayal, somewhat ironically because of her independence compared to the rest of the Zerg that he valued, or just sheer incompetence. Zeratul and Tassadar come over to Auir with advanced Protoss teleportation technology and wreck him before the less technologically advanced Zerg can relocate either himself or Kerrigan.

His undoing was because he placed too much faith in his new super creation, either her competence or loyalty. It was a pretty classic villain failing and easy to follow during the story, I thought.

>> No.39953671

>>39953656
Quality Blizzard writing.

>> No.39953678

>>39953633

You have the same color idiot. It's Araq and Jormungand brood for the entire campaign.

>> No.39953679

>>39953515
Kerrigan was capable of being the equivalent of a Cerebrate after a set amount of time. There was more to it, but the Cerebrates serve as a regulator to the Zerg.

Kerrigan doesn't stop using Cerebrates until that proto-Overmind is formed that is all "yea fuck Kerrigan we have a job to do lol" and shits on everything in the wrong ways. Unless I'm mistaken, that was Brood War where she allied with the other factions to kill the new Overmind because it threatened to take her back over.

And, in SC2:HotS, she uses Queens because they're less likely to do what the Cerebrates did. You can't "hurr Metzen cocaine joke" that shit out.

>> No.39953683

>>39953671
well yeah, Blizzard has gone to shit in the last few years. SC2 is a great example of ruining the lore from a decent game.

>> No.39953699

>>39953683
It's like, they can design some cool monsters and go about half-way with a setting, and then they shit the bed when it comes to plot writing.

>> No.39953723

>>39953656
That's not bad writing at all, fuck. Things you don't like is not synonymous with bad.
>>39953664
It makes perfect sense to say "the Overmind wanted that to happen", yes.

>>39953660
>Because he's in the middle of his own force, and on the one planet that the Protoss probably wouldn't go all death star on.
Surely it's safer in orbit than in the middle of their heavily defended territories?
>You mean the spacemagic that gets made up in SC2? He's got a body, it's referenced in the manual, you see it flying through space. You are seriously in denial.
You see it exactly once, exactly when he said he can finally get a body. That proves fucking nothing.
>Yeah, the Protoss totally don't have spaceships or anything.
So engage them, he already proved he can do that. Considering he had to go through them to get to the surface of the planet.
>He speaks flowery, therefore "manifest" might not mean the incredibly narrow and stupid meaning you give it, especially when it's obviously contradicted in other places.
It's not obviously contradicted. Beyond that, even granting it as "flowery", the sentence makes NO SENSE WHATSOVER. How can he "be made manifest upon that ground alone" if he was already manifest elsewhere? He's not manifesting, and that ground alone serves no obvious purpose, so the sentence isn't flowery, it's an outright LIE.

>> No.39953742

>>39953723
>That's not bad writing at all
Says the guy that doesn't know shit about the original SC lore. You never even read the manual.

>> No.39953747

>>39953633

He left her to deal with them because they were a threat to him and all cerebrates, as was previously demonstrated.

Why would he leave himself and cerebrates there with the enemy that has just demonstrated can kill them there to get killed?

Zeratul and Tassadar discovering that ability and killing a cerebrate made him realise he could no longer be patient. Why would he stay behind and slowly watch his cerebrates get slaughtered against this undetectable foe that is a perfect counter to his cerebrates and even possibly himself, when he has a perfect supersoldier that counters them (possibly he even forsaw this and that's the reason Kerrigan was created and why the invasion didn't take place until that time) when he could have her deal with it and take himself and the Cerebrates to what he thinks is safety and kill the rest of the Protoss hopefully before they discover this ability as well? You could even argue Zeratul and Tassadar made him desperate and realise he had to strike now before that happened.

The temple thing makes perfect sense. I see the argument above saying maybe this one isn't so bad. What kind of retarded gamble strategy is that? "Oh, my creators, who I know to be supremely powerful and have made towers that are capable of instantly cleansing entire planets of my influence and troops have a temple there? Nah, maybe I won't land there and take control of it and instead land some other place and hope it's not so bad. What could possibly go wrong?!" Now that would be stupid.

>> No.39953748

>>39953669
>They're not there for the entire protoss campaign. It's about the midway point.
So what's Kerrigan doing for the other half?
>they don't have the teleporting technology that the Protoss have
They have long range warp travel that doesn't take any amount of time to utilize.

>He left here there to deal with them because she was his most prized creation
Why? Why was she a prized creation when she accomplished absolutely nothing for him? What makes her special in the context of SC1 alone?

>> No.39953749

>>39953723
>Surely it's safer in orbit than in the middle of their heavily defended territories?

In orbit you can be attacked from literally every direction.

>> No.39953753
File: 142 KB, 775x514, Complete Mongoloid.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
39953753

>>39953723
>it's not bad writing
>"i lost on purpose, you see ;))))"
blizzard shill pls leave

>> No.39953759

>>39953683
>recent years
>SC2
>Not starting with the shitstorm that was WoW and to an extent WC3

>> No.39953764

>>39953699
To be honest, replaying SC1 as an adult without nostalgia glasses (by which I mean a glass of scotch) I noticed that SC1 hardly has a plot.

You just have HUMANS vs XENOMORPHS vs GREYS and you gotta blow up the enemy base and also once every three missions, you get an FMV that more often than not has NOTHING to do with the missions you performed, or even better shows you warmachines or monsters that aren't even in the game. And when it shows you warmachines or soldiers that ARE in the game, they have abilities that you never see in the fucking game.

Remember that one time the Terrans had a fucking three-wheeled vehicle with a big cannon on top?

>> No.39953776

>>39953621

HE did somewhat anticipate things, but the Dark Templar aren't easy for him to anticipate. That's a major plot point. He can't detect them and their powers can hurt him and the cerebrates, so they're dangerous. Even then, that could even be the reason why Kerrigan was created. To deal with them. They are the other children of the Xel'naga and just as advanced, if not moreso. This is the reason he wants to conquer and assimilate them above all others.

>> No.39953777

>>39953723

>Surely it's safer in orbit than in the middle of their heavily defended territories?

I don't see what basis you have to assume that. Surely orbit and the spacelanes are also heavily defended.

>You see it exactly once, exactly when he said he can finally get a body. That proves fucking nothing.

Excepthedoesn'tsaythatyoufuckingretardandthemanualclearlysayshehadabodybefore.

>So engage them, he already proved he can do that. Considering he had to go through them to get to the surface of the planet.

You have played the game, right? You've seen how the 'toss can build more ships and deploy them despite the Zerg presence? You might have won those last few Protoss missions with a big carrier ball?

> How can he "be made manifest upon that ground alone" if he was already manifest elsewhere? He's not manifesting, and that ground alone serves no obvious purpose, so the sentence isn't flowery, it's an outright LIE.

>I am LITERALLY autistic and don't understand what "flowery" language is.

Here. Very simple. It means

>I won't land anywhere else. I like it on this ground most holy.


And it does serve a purpose that's obvious to the rest of us who aren't retards. Big Xel'Naga temple. Giant khaydarin crystals. Both proven to have beneficial effects on the Overmind before. Might be nice to have.

>> No.39953784

>>39953723
>Surely it's safer in orbit than in the middle of their heavily defended territories?
So you conceded you were wrong and the Overmind did have the physical form we all told you it had?

>this fuckin' guy

>> No.39953795

You miss the point anon.

The problem with SCII isn't the violation of the SCI Canon. Its the blatant rip-off of all the plot points of Warcraft, including making the Xel'naga good guys with a fallen bad guy (a.k.a titans) making the zerg a primitive race with honor and individuality but corrupted (a.k.a the orcs).

Also making all the wings of liberty campaing useless in a single mission in Heart of the Swarm.

>> No.39953798

>>39953748

She's either being a traitor and hoping the Overmind dies so she can assume full control, not knowing about the situation because she is unique among Zerg and has individuality and there were no cerebrates left behind with her because they either all fled or Zeratul and Tass got them first or she's simply unable to get there in time because the Zerg lack the Protoss' advanced teleportation technology.

>> No.39953801

>>39953742
Your insistence about the manual is nonsensical, I read it ages ago and some details may have blurred, for fuck's sake. If the lore's not clear in the game, it's bad writing anyway, meaning SC1 has the same goddamn flaws as SC2.

>>39953747
>He left her to deal with them because they were a threat to him and all cerebrates, as was previously demonstrated.
And why not bring her back after they left, leaving a huge gap in time where Kerrigan does.. literally nothing? She never comes up in the whole of the Protoss campaign.
>when he could have her deal with it and take himself and the Cerebrates to what he thinks is safety and kill the rest of the Protoss hopefully before they discover this ability as well?
This is the closest argument to making any sense at all, and I still find it less plausible than he was actively suicidal. It makes some sense, but it's not clearly indicated in story, he was given no sense of urgency or desperation.
>Why would he leave himself and cerebrates there with the enemy that has just demonstrated can kill them there to get killed?
Because there are no other places to mobilize than the heart of your enemy's domain?

>The temple thing makes perfect sense. I see the argument above saying maybe this one isn't so bad. What kind of retarded gamble strategy is that? "Oh, my creators, who I know to be supremely powerful and have made towers that are capable of instantly cleansing entire planets of my influence and troops have a temple there? Nah, maybe I won't land there and take control of it and instead land some other place and hope it's not so bad. What could possibly go wrong?!" Now that would be stupid.
That information only comes from Brood War anyway. Nothing indicates the temples could possibly do that in SC1.

>> No.39953808

>>39953776
>assimilate mankind into the zerg, a mighty species with intelligence and the use of technology
>use them as ISIS suicide bombers

THE PINNACLE OF XEL NAGA ENGINEERING!

>> No.39953816

>>39941898
Dead Space had a pretty damn good story up until the whole moons thing in DS3, and Mass Effect's story was god-tier until they jumped the shark with the fucking cosmic eight year old and the three color choices ending in 3.

Basically, sci-fi games shouldn't get a third game in the series, because that's when they fuck it up.

>> No.39953839

>>39953748

Did you miss the part where she's the only one able to easily detect and slaughter Tassadar, Zeratul and the Dark Templar, while the cerebrates and the Overmind himself are almost hopefully vulnerable to them?

And they have some warp travel, but it never shown to be on the level of the Protoss. "Not taking any amount of time" isn't what I took from that movie, which is what I assume you're referencing. That movie was the Overmind himself mobilizing the entire host to move out. It's not like Kerrigan can just pull that out so quickly or even at all. Not at the time of SC1 when she isnt' in control of the Zerg, anyway. And they certainly don't have their stealth technology.

>> No.39953844

>>39953816
>he never saw the original leaked script for ME3 before it came out
It was going to be fucking awesome. It was going to bring balance to trilogies.
But then...god fucking damn EA had to be their fucking selves.

>> No.39953848

>>39953777
>I don't see what basis you have to assume that. Surely orbit and the spacelanes are also heavily defended.
Yet the zerg brushed right on through to the surface?
>Excepthedoesn'tsaythatyoufuckingretardandthemanualclearlysayshehadabodybefore.
Again, it means he's not even being flowery but saying things that make no sense whatsoever in his statement on manifestation.
>You have played the game, right? You've seen how the 'toss can build more ships and deploy them despite the Zerg presence? You might have won those last few Protoss missions with a big carrier ball?
This helps your argument how? It just proves going down to the surface is even more suicidal, because they can rally their forces while being overwhelmed.
>Here. Very simple. It means
>I won't land anywhere else. I like it on this ground most holy.
Weak as shit, there is no reason to say 'upon that ground alone', no given reason, and if you're saying it's just because he's a blowhard then I'm saying that's fucking shit writing.
>>39953784
Conceding purely for the sake of argument, saying that even if he did, going directly to Aiur makes no sense.

>> No.39953849

>>39953801
>Your insistence about the manual is nonsensical,
Only because you're mad at being wrong.

>I read it ages ago
You never read it.

>If the lore's not clear in the game,
It was clear in the game too. The fucking cinematics show you, but you probably didn't watch those.

>meaning SC1 has the same goddamn flaws as SC2.
maybe in your retcon-riddled mind

Important thing is, you're wrong and you know it now. Good job arguing a point so fervently like a moron.

>> No.39953863

>>39953848
>going directly to Aiur makes no sense
>even though it's the thing he's been talking about and planning to do as soon as possible since forever
At this point I doubt you ever played SC1. Wings of Liberty was probably babby's first SC and you're getting anything else by skimming wiki articles.
lol

>> No.39953864

>>39953801

The manual is just as much a part of the game as the game itself. This was a game from the 90s, so you have no excuse. If you didn't read the manual, it was your own damn fault. RTFM applied strongly back then to games, so no, it's not a sign of bad writing, but negligence on your behalf.

>> No.39953868

>>39953801

>And why not bring her back after they left, leaving a huge gap in time where Kerrigan does.. literally nothing? She never comes up in the whole of the Protoss campaign.

They leave at the end of Protoss mission 6.

It's like 5 days from the end of that till mission 10. Maybe she just didn't get back by then.

>> No.39953871

>>39953849

I've flipped through the manual dozens of times... fifteen years ago, man.

>It was clear in the game too. The fucking cinematics show you, but you probably didn't watch those.

One cinematic, exactly after he said he's ready to manifest. Fucking bullshit.

>> No.39953881

>>39953808

Well, he did create Kerrigan as a prototype for what he really intended to do with the good ones, to be fair.

Those were just the trash of humanity. He did have bigger plans for the better ones.

>> No.39953890

>>39953863
How convincing!

>>39953864
That is indeed a sign of bad writing, man. Reading the manual is for gameplay purposes, not plot purposes. All you really said is it is usual for games to have poor writing in 1998, which is fair.

>> No.39953894

>>39953871
>I've flipped through the manual dozens of times
lol and your dad works for Nintendo too, right?

>One cinematic, exactly after he said he's ready to manifest.
So he manifested himself in space despite saying he was going to do it on Aiur? Or maybe you don't know what manifest means, what he meant, and you didn't read the manual that says he has a physical form? :^D
Hmmm...

>> No.39953895

>>39953655
Maybe? That's definitely not how I remembered it, anyway. IIRC, the Xel'Naga got disgusted with the Protoss' infighting and left.
OTOH, Wikia says the Protoss started drifting away from their makers who were living with them, so the Xel'Naga decided to leave and were then attacked by some Protoss who felt betrayed.... either way, what follows is the Eon of Strife, which ends with the introduction of the Khala, and not incidentally veneration of the Xel'Naga.

>> No.39953910

>>39953890
>How convincing!
Indeed your posts have been most convincing that you never played the first game, since you're confused about something the Overmind talked about and planned to do since day 1.

You're the pro at convincing here.

Hell, you're probably confused why the Protoss don't have mouths.

>> No.39953916

>>39953894
>lol and your dad works for Nintendo too, right?

Is it truly that hard to believe a man can't remember every string of data from a booklet he read fifteen years ago? Is that just not possible in your world?

>So he manifested himself in space despite saying he was going to do it on Aiur? Or maybe you don't know what manifest means, what he meant, and you didn't read the manual that says he has a physical form?

Or maybe he was manifesting, you know, on that point, and the planetfall itself was the act of manifestation he was talking about, god damn.

>> No.39953922

>>39953848

>Yet the zerg brushed right on through to the surface?

The gameplay clearly shows rapid construction and remaining Protoss spacecraft capability. Hell, so does the story, remember how the Executor fucks off to Char and the Koprulu in the middle of the invasion without anyone saying "Hey, we can't get out, the Zerg control all the space around here?" Remember how you get back in?

>Again, it means he's not even being flowery but saying things that make no sense whatsoever in his statement on manifestation.

No it doesn't. It just says that he won't manifest anywhere else on Aiur.

>This helps your argument how? It just proves going down to the surface is even more suicidal, because they can rally their forces while being overwhelmed.

because it means that the orbit is at least as dangerous as the surface. Probably moreso, given the Zerg relative excellence in ground based combat.

> there is no reason to say 'upon that ground alone',

Except, you know, the reasons I gave in that very same fucking post.

You're a troll. You're not even pretending to be an idiot anymore.

>> No.39953923

>>39953864
I miss the days of reading the manual for lore.
Much better than Destiny's dumbfuckery of "YO! GO READ THIS SHIT ONLINE AFTER YOU COLLECT ITEMS IN THE GAME YO! IT WILL REMIND YOU OF 90's AND READING MANUALS!"

>> No.39953926

>>39953864
This.

The manual explained the origins of every faction and where they were at at the beginning of each faction campaign.

>> No.39953931

>>39953890

Anon, you can't be this young or stupid.

Some games back then ONLY had their plot in the manual because it saved room. Technology wasn't so great back then. So yes, until recently, major points being in the manual was considered not only okay, but the norm. Hell, sometimes, the plot was only in the manual due to technology limitations. It was standard practice back then.

You're either too young or too stupid at this point. Or this is really bland and uninspired bait.

>> No.39953935

>>39953890
>i didn't read it and i was wrong about what i was arguing, so that means it's bad writing
lol how elegant in defeat you are

>> No.39953963

>>39953916
>Is it truly that hard to believe
Only if you insist on arguing the lore like you think you know it. Hell, the least you could do is skim it first if you're going to try and debate it.
All you ended up doing was making yourself look like a Grade A dumbass.

>Or maybe
He was already canonically stated to have a physical form.

Really you have nothing to stand on at this point. You're flat wrong, you know it and I know it. Got anything else?

>> No.39953964
File: 77 KB, 325x400, 565250.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
39953964

>>39953890
>That is indeed a sign of bad writing, man. Reading the manual is for gameplay purposes, not plot purposes. All you really said is it is usual for games to have poor writing in 1998, which is fair.

I'm coming for your booty, because there's no way you're past the age of consent.

>> No.39953971

>>39953931
He's probably just reaching 20 man. He wasn't old enough to play games before the days of 1 page manuals.

>> No.39953984

>>39953922
>The gameplay clearly shows rapid construction and remaining Protoss spacecraft capability. Hell, so does the story, remember how the Executor fucks off to Char and the Koprulu in the middle of the invasion without anyone saying "Hey, we can't get out, the Zerg control all the space around here?" Remember how you get back in?
.. what the fuck does that have to do with anything?
>No it doesn't. It just says that he won't manifest anywhere else on Aiur.
It says only there. Not that he won't, but dialogue implies cannot.
>because it means that the orbit is at least as dangerous as the surface. Probably moreso, given the Zerg relative excellence in ground based combat.
And again, the zerg just brushed right on through to make planetfall. So I doubt that.
>Except, you know, the reasons I gave in that very same fucking post.
The idea that he's just being grandiose and mucking up his dialogue for it is literally shit writing. As in that means the authors wrote the wrong fucking text.

>>39953931
Saying everyone did it doesn't make it good writing.

>> No.39954002

>>39953747
Also, the Overmind didn't know where Aiur was until Zeratul killed a Cerebrate. The Overmind began the attack immediately when he knew where to go, everything before that had been build up in preparation of that attack and search for clues on Aiur's location.

>> No.39954015

>>39953984
>Saying everyone did it doesn't make it good writing.
Saying it's bad writing because of the technological limitations of its presentation doesn't make it bad writing.
The writing itself is solid. You're simply too young to understand.

Really this puts all your comments in perspective as youthful ignorance.

>> No.39954022

There are people in this very thread who apparently don't realise some of old Dungeons and Dragons CRPG games or Ultima games had their entire plot in the manual, both the set up story and even in the in game dialogue, with page numbers on the screen for what is happening to look up.

It depresses me that such people exist.

>> No.39954032

>>39953816

Is it bad that I kind of like the idea of the Blood Moons in DS3 in that it sets up a full circle scenario where Isaac kills a Blood Moon with a remade Ishimura?

>> No.39954037

>>39954022
Manuals are bad writing! >:(

>> No.39954050

>>39954015
It's okay anon, he's just jealous. He didn't get to know the glory of reading all the lore while you waited for the game to install. He didn't get to feel the confusion of trying to call customer service or return the first game without a thick manual because it was all in-game.

>> No.39954064

>>39953984

It doesn't make it bad writing either. It makes it an accepted practice based on technology limitations for the entire medium.

Games had always had a setup story in manuals until recently. If you didn't RTFM, for either story or gameplay purposes, it's your own fault.

>> No.39954067

>>39953895
I guess it just annoys me that they go from "veneration" to SC2's outright worship of them as gods. They're supposed to be highly developed and also they fought these guys. But we needed a reason for Jimmy to fight some Protoss so there you go!

>> No.39954088

>>39953963
>He was already canonically stated to have a physical form.
I decided to actually flip through the manual just for this occasion, and guess what, nothing in it says the overmind has a body. In fact the closest line of dialogue is this.

"The Overmind coalesced into a semi-sentient
being that represented the primary drives
and instincts of all of the Zerg strains. As
time passed, the Overmind developed the
rudiments of personality and advanced
intellect.
Although the Overmind directed the
actions of every creature within the swarm,
it did so through the use of secondary
agents."

Closest is that it "coalesced into a being" and acts through secondary agents.

>> No.39954094
File: 353 KB, 800x800, 1422008118640.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
39954094

>>39953864
>>39953926
>>39953931
>>39953935
>>39953963
>>39953964
>>39953971
>>39954015
>>39954022
>>39954050
>>39954064
>mfw /tg/ collectively spanks an underageb& kid and corrects him

>> No.39954113

>>39953748
>Why? Why was she a prized creation when she accomplished absolutely nothing for him? What makes her special in the context of SC1 alone?
Her psionic abilities. If you read the manual for SC1, you'll find that the Overmind was aware of the existence of the Protoss, wanted to assimilate them into the Swarm, and had realised that they were powerful psionics. The last point was of great concern since the Zerg had no counter to it.
Humanity had just begun to develop psionic abilities, and when the Overmind encountered them the Zerg could finally obtain a counter to the Protoss psionic abilities.

Since humanity had been watched by the Protoss for a long time, however, they quickly realised that the Zerg had arrived, and that they were a threat. Hence: war. The Protoss blow up a fucking planet in the intro because it has been infested by the Zerg.

The Overmind had spent centuries traveling through the galaxy towards the Protoss and only found the blueprints for the best weapon against them as the war against them was beginning. The Overmind would probably have preferred to spend 6 generations or more developing a new strain of psionic Zerg to battle the Protoss with, but there was no time for that. War had already started, so when it got hold of a human with exceptionally strong psionic abilities (Kerrigan, in case you're wondering) it did something else, and remade this human as a Zerg, keeping the psionic ability intact, but with that also allowing her to retain many memories and much of her potential for independent action.

>> No.39954114

>>39954015
>>39954064
A flawed presentation is itself bad writing. Being forced to work around the technical limitations does not enhance a work in any way.

>> No.39954115
File: 164 KB, 638x827, 654812.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
39954115

>>39954094
We'll eat manthings tonight!

>> No.39954116

>>39953890
What's it like being born after the twin towers fell?

>> No.39954134

>>39954114
>flawed
Maybe if you're illiterate.

>Being forced to work around the technical limitations does not enhance a work in any way.
And it doesn't detract from it either, which is your entire argument.

God, do you kids even take debate in school anymore?

>> No.39954141

>>39954134
It does detract from it, it means the work isn't whole unto itself.

>> No.39954154

>>39946311
Fuck yeah, the Dig!

>> No.39954156

>>39954134
They fumble and bumble through a Speech class.

>>39954141
The manual is a part of the work.

>> No.39954160

>>39954113
All that leading up to.. absolutely fucking nothing. Now we're adding bad direction, as well, hooray.

>> No.39954165

>>39954113

That's a nice summary. I don't understand how this other anon could fail to comprehend the answer to his own questions if he really played it. It was easily presented and spelled out, for the most part.

He chose that moment to attack because he had the 2 things he believed he lacked until that point. A psionic counter to the Dark Templar and the location, both of which he acquired.

>> No.39954172

>>39953808
I refer you to my other post >>39954113 The Overmind would in all likelihood have preferred to assimilate humanity and spend 6 or so generations developing a new strain of zerg. THEN go to war against the Protoss. But there was no time for that, so instead we get a bunch of cheap suicide bombers and the single most powerful combatant in the game.

>> No.39954174

>>39950755
I like the ending.

>> No.39954195

>>39954156
>The manual is a part of the work.

Uh, no. That's definitively, objectively false. It's a separate item, placed alongside the work. That's like saying popcorn is part of a movie.

>> No.39954197

>>39954172
So the Overmind learned of human history, and decided that the best course of action was that of nazi-germany.

>what we need isn't good millions of good soldiers
>what we need is ONE wunderwaffen

No wonder the Zerg lost the war.

>> No.39954205

>>39954141
>It does detract from it
Maybe if you're illiterate.

>it means the work isn't whole unto itself.
It's part of the work.

>> No.39954214

>>39954195
>Uh, no. That's definitively, objectively false. It's a separate item, placed alongside the work. That's like saying popcorn is part of a movie.

The manual is shipped with the game.

If they shipped popcorn with the movie, it'd be part of the movie. Just like with Avatar, the 3D glasses were part of the movie.

>> No.39954227

>>39954195
>Uh, no. That's definitively, objectively false
lol

We got us a real retard here.

>> No.39954235

>>39954214
No, if they shipped popcorn with the movie, it would be part of the package that you purchase. It is still separate from the movie. In your example, the 3D glasses are definitely not part of the movie, you could not watch the 3D glasses.

>> No.39954237

>>39951090

Jamaican Ghosts were always a thing in the comics.

>> No.39954253

>>39954235
I can watch 3D glasses. I can observe them.

>> No.39954264

>>39954235
>In your example, the 3D glasses are definitely not part of the movie, you could not watch the 3D glasses.

The 3D glasses ARE DEFINATELY a part of the movie. Without the 3D glasses, you're just looking at a blurry screen. You don't go out much, do you?

>> No.39954273

>>39954264
Well it seems like he skipped school today.

>> No.39954276

>>39954253
But is that part of the movie's runtime? Will everyone who watches that movie see the glasses too? It may be a part of the "experience", but it's not part of "the movie".
>>39954264
There's non 3D runnings and you can watch a blurry screen for what it's worth.

>> No.39954295

>>39954160

How is it bad direction or leading up to nothing? Again, it's a pretty common storytelling technique if you understood what was happening or if not, have read the posts in this thread. He developed a counter and it worked. Remember, Kerrigan was slaughtering Tassadar's forces. Kerrigan LET them go. If she hadn't, they would have never returned to Auir and been able to use the powers they had learned to damage the Overmind or his cerebrates on Auir and nobody on Auir would have ever learned of this.

It's a pretty classic and solid villain foil. The villain finally obtains the powerful weapon he needs to defeat the enemy (Kerrigan), but her great power comes at a price (in this case, her independent thought and action) and that ends up being his foil.

Kerrigan could have performed her role perfectly. She did to an extent. She had them beat. Everything was perfect. But then she let them go, because of her independence. That was what went wrong here.

His creation was both his greatest triumph and yet his foil, because what was required to create this new weapon (independence) is something he had no experience dealing with. All his other creations and troops were basically slaves to his own mind. Kerrigan wasn't. That was the price for her abilities. You could claim it was an oversight, but he had spent an eternity with troops that were free of independent thought. Why would Kerrigan let them go in such a foolish move? He knew what he had to do in order to create this weapon, but he never expected arrogance to have it let them go because he had no experience with such.

I thought it was pretty good. Again, it's a pretty classic storytelling mechanic for a villain's downfall. Not terribly unique, admittedly, but it worked.

>> No.39954304

>>39954276
>Will everyone who watches that movie see the glasses too?

Yes, constantly, because they will be wearing them in order to properly view the movie.

>> No.39954328

>>39954295
>Remember, Kerrigan was slaughtering Tassadar's forces. Kerrigan LET them go.
That's not how it happened, Tassadar's forces outmaneuvered her and withdrew entirely. Their forces were "decimated" in the text, but Tassadar was back on Aiur by Protoss mission 2.

>Kerrigan could have performed her role perfectly. She did to an extent. She had them beat. Everything was perfect. But then she let them go, because of her independence. That was what went wrong here.
That.. never happened at all. The hell did this come from? Your fanfiction is baseless. This does not describe any part of SC1's plot.

>> No.39954399

>primal zerg

>not-the-hyperion zerg ship monster

>narud being some shapeshifting psyker zel'naga bitch

>mensk having the artifact and not using it to save korhal.

>> No.39954417

The thing I hate most about SC2 is the new big bad basically being Sargeras and the Burning Legion.

And yeah, you could argue that it was established in SC1, but they were never presented like they were in 2, where they just come across as Warcraft's Burning Legion crossing over into SC2.

>> No.39954437

>>39954328

Oops, I think you're right. I was thinking of the Zeratul moment in Brood War. My bad. It has been awhile.

It was my interpretation of how I saw the direction they were trying to take, but it is still similar if it's just her incompetence or arrogance in her abilities and his down foil is still his faith in his new creation.

>> No.39954450

>>39945590
Did this fine gentleman assert that X-Com had a good story? What did I miss? That's like calling 4e D&D a storytelling system.

>> No.39954458

>>39954437
I don't feel that the overmind being an incompetent blowhard overestimating himself and his forces at every turn is any better writing than him running a long-term attempt at suicide.

>> No.39954460
File: 324 KB, 1920x1080, eve.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
39954460

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHrpMtv1NhU

>> No.39954486

>>39954399
The middle 2 I was ok with, personally. The others are screwy.

>> No.39954500

>>39954458

What does a blowhard have to do with anything and where did that come from? He almost never boasts and not to his enemies. It doesn't make him incredibly incompetent. He just overestimated Kerrigan because he doesn't fully understand her and her independence because he's not experienced with such. Everything else was pretty well planned, given his time constraints and resources he had to deal with once the Dark Templar arrived and Protoss started nuking planets to eliminate humans and Zerg alike.

>> No.39954509

>>39954328
Kerrigan "let" them go because she was arrogant and walked into Tassadar's trap. Tassadar challenged her to a duel and used it to buy time to escape.

>>39954399
>mensk having the artifact and not using it to save korhal.

He used the anti-Zerg nullifier thingy. You need to use the primal zerg to get past it. The Xel Naga device only works for a short time and is a pulse rather than constant force, so the other nullifier is actually better but Mengsk didn't know that Kerrigan would have forces that are immune to it.

And Mengsk keeping the Xel Naga device in his office to protect himself as a last line of defense fits his personality. AND that would have worked as well if there hadn't been a human allied with Kerrigan (and you can't really blame him for not guessing that Raynor would team up with Kerrigan.)

Oh and:
>not-the-hyperion zerg ship monster
Those were mentioned in SC1 already. The Zerg used them for interstellar travel.

I don't even mind the Narud bit, but I admit that the Primal Zerg were a bit weird.

>> No.39954524

>>39941974
Not everyone reads Cosmo like you, ass.

>> No.39954533

>>39954509
>Kerrigan "let" them go because she was arrogant and walked into Tassadar's trap. Tassadar challenged her to a duel and used it to buy time to escape.

It's a fair point. If her arrogance had no gotten the better of her at that moment, she probably would have succeeded. And the Overmind is not used to his troops being susceptible to such.

>> No.39954535

>>39954417
No, if anything the Old Gods would be the Xel'naga. Or possibly their creations; C'Thun has a lot in common with the Overmind.

Sargeras and Amon are equivalent in that they are "the Big Bad kept offscreen for mystique;" but Amon is actually the source of the problems in SC, whereas Sargeras is just the most powerful victim of the Old Gods in WC.

Presumably Anu was a Titan and Tathamet was an Old God.

>> No.39954544

>>39950237
With special thanks to EA, for their continued efforts to murder every series under the sun.

>> No.39954568

>>39954509

>psi disrruptor under attack by weird zerg

>not charging the artifact immediately for an emergency cleanup

Come on.

Its stupid no matter how you put it.

>> No.39954631

>>39954568

But he wanted to wait for Kerrigan to come to him so that he could gloat with, "I made you a monster" which is still one of the worst lines I've seen in a story.

>> No.39954652

>>39953749
>literally every direction
Including from within? Christ, space is scary.

>> No.39954656

>>39942078
Actually /lit/ is just full of insecure fucktards who spend all day talking about philosophy they pretend to understand so that everyone will think they're smart. Even though they're not.

>> No.39954678
File: 190 KB, 800x800, eldaretard.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
39954678

>>39945590
>implying XCOM has a story
>implying FTL has a story
>implying Mass Effect had a good story
>implying Halo's story wasn't ripped off from at least three different sources then inexpertly cobbled together

>> No.39954696

>>39954568
>>39954631

>Artifact takes a whole three seconds to pop up and activate

>Kerrigan just stares instead of impaling Mengsk right away.

It's fractally stupid. The longer you look at it, the stupider it gets.

>> No.39954711

>>39953679
Celebrates were active till the emdbof brood war, you played as 2 in there, remember?

(1 for sc 1 for sc2)

>> No.39954735

>>39951947
Wrath was a snowglobe, the other expansions (plus vanilla) are different toys/baubles.

>> No.39954763

>>39954711
Apparently Kerrigan got rid of the Cerebrates sometime between the Brood war and SC2 as part of her evolving the Zerg. Most of the Cerebrates were dead by that point anyway. Many had opposed her (and had been fused to make the "new Overmind.") and she had no way to replace them.

The Zerg Queens were created to do the same job.

>> No.39954837
File: 631 KB, 681x681, RRRREEEEEEEEE.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
39954837

>>39941898
>Everything about Hearthstone
>Everything about Sc2
>Everything about D3 EVEN POST FIX

>> No.39954943

>>39954711
>>39954763
When they formed together to create the proto-Overmind she shit on them because they were all "well we're better than you Kerrigan because CEREBRATES AND CHOSEN BY THE OVERMIND HAHA FUCK YOU"

She had enough of their shit, allied with Dark Templars to kill them, and then created Queens to fill their spot. Heart of the Swarm explains that the Queens were less ambitious and prone to try killing her, save the one queen she explicitly told to do that.

Kerrigan only had the one Cerebrate (the player of SC1's Zerg campaign) she liked, but it died before BW. She created a new one for Brood War, and talked to it explicitly iirc.

In HotS you played as Kerrigan, straight up, there were no Cerebrates by that point in the story.

>> No.39954980

Should I play the original Starcraft?

>> No.39955006

>>39954980
it's a pretty fun game, despite the shitposting of people going "I didn't like it so it isn't canon!" that you see here

Definitely a solid RTS if you can bear with the fact it was a straight-faced product of the 90s

>> No.39955013

>>39954763
>>39954943
Actually, the SC1 manual states that the queens were used by the cerebrates to keep their broods generally coordinated. The Overlords are wartime units that allow micromanagement. So Kerrigan using Queens to coordinate the Zerg is just her using a strain for what it was made for.

>> No.39955072

>>39955013
Ah, well it seems like she just took the Cerebrates out of the equation then. Either way, she still crapped on the Cerebrates and did them in for getting too big for their britches.

>> No.39955189

>>39955072
Understandably so. With the Overmind gone there was nothing left that could control her. Several cerebrates fusing into a new one would've put an end to her newfound freedom. Eliminating the competition by setting her enemies against each other additionally gave her time to refine her psionic abilities and assume control over what was left of the Swarm.

That girl was pretty clever.

>> No.39955229

>>39954980
Yes.
Why haven't you done this already?

>> No.39955288

>>39954535
>Sargeras is just the most powerful victim of the Old Gods in WC.

I thought he was corrupted by the Nathrezim and the Ered--okay just the Nathrezim? Did they retcon it again into Old Gods?

>> No.39955323

>>39954980
It has the original "Survive for X amount of time until your rescue arrives" mission.

>> No.39955334

>>39955323
That blew me away as a kid.

>> No.39955434

>>39955323
That one taught me a lot about RTS games. First time I played it I got to watch as my defenders were slaughtered, my buildings destroyed and my workers massacred.

Then I bunkered down and massacred the attackers right back.

Later I went back and struck first.

Those were some good times.

>> No.39955510

>>39955434
>Later I went back and struck first.

I feel like everyone does this eventually, as a sign that you have grown as a player and a way to get revenge on those raiding bastards.

>> No.39955591

>>39955510

It does make it a bit weird though, when the 4 dropships show up and "Hey guys, we're here to rescue you" and you've got 150 marines on the board teabagging the zerg corpses.

>> No.39955635

>>39955510
In WoL you even get an achievement for it! You have to kill their hatcheries on hard difficulty, if I'm remembering right.
I'm such a whore for those things, I know.

>> No.39955769

>>39946311
Someone else remembers Beneath a Steel Sky. You have excellent taste.

>> No.39955926

>>39949004
There are others
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=t7SQ2Wu6PvI

>> No.39956498

>>39954678
>I did not play any of these games at all.
FTL has a story, it's the events you go through.
So does Xcom, you just need to learn more about your threat as you go on dipshit. What do you think capturing the xenos made from pure energy did, jackshit?

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