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39917261 No.39917261 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]


Topic of today:
>Lances. Do they work or not?

>> No.39917301

My feeble 500 point Space Marine list:
1 Lunar-class Cruiser
1 Gothic-cass Cruiser
4 Sword-class Frigates

>> No.39917537

That's an Imperial Navy list. A space marine 500 point list would be a terrible idea.
Personally, I would switch your gothic cruiser to a second lunar cruiser because I'm a sucker for having pairs of ships, but that's just me.

>> No.39917605
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Y-y-yeah, i totally posted the w-wrong name
How can you fuckers tell these ships apart
But is it a good Navy 500 point list?

>> No.39918198


Lances are great, but some players fetishize them.

Vs eldar, they're blast marker generators / ordnance killers. Don't count on them to do hull damage.

They're great versus head-on Imperials or space marines compared to the WBs you usually get if you try to trade them off. They're even with WBs, more or less, at armor 5+. Vs armor 4+ they're inferior. They're superior at long range, comparatively inferior at short range (same roll, but WBs get a bonus). Obviously they're also superior through blast markers. Well known among players, but worth saying: you almost always fire your lances AFTER any wb fire.

OK so how do you use them? Well long range ones on battlecruisers are good for focus-firing enemies that might not even be in view of your broadsides. If your main target's shields are still up after your broadside WBs, use your lances on a shields-down enemy in view instead.

Short range broadside lances are used like batteries, and IMO are over-rated.

Chaos should use them to punish imperials while closing range. Concentrated fire is really necessary here, but with the long range weapons Chaos gets, this is feasible.

Overall, they're great, but not all-powerful as some players seem to think.

>> No.39918256


Gothics are awesome in big fleets, much less so in very small ones.

It comes back to lances. You'll get a much more reliable amount of damage, vs WBs which could roll very high or very low. The problem is that both will average to about the average shields of an opposing ship of equal size.

So a gothic will do a broadside of about 2 damage. Since that's pretty reliable, you'll be just barely breaking cruiser shields down every fight. WBs will sometimes whiff, but then sometimes break through shields and do damage. Hence the value of ships like the lunar in duels, or escorts to help the gothic punch through.

The gothic will have lots of problems vs Eldar. Holofields will mostly let them dodge the lances and you don't create enough blast markers to be a real hazard to navigation for them.

>> No.39919480


I'd take a second lunar, but what you have will work.

>> No.39919640

Wasn't there some way to play this online?

>> No.39919994


Yeah, with vassal

>> No.39920240

There were only 4 or 5 people playing it a few years ago. I wasn't aware that the numbers had changed.

>> No.39920729

Yeah, two Lunars might be a good idea. Or a Lunar and a Tyrant.

>A space marine 500 point list would be a terrible idea.
Not sure about that - two strike cruisers and five Hunters could do pretty well. Most opponents are not going to be lance-heavy at 500 points.

>> No.39921039

Firestorm, Sword, or Cobras: Which one should I use if I have a Lunar, a Gothic, and two Dauntless cruisers?

>> No.39921387


At those points you're not likely to have attack craft on the opposing side. They'd do well, I think.


What kind of dauntlesses? Lance or torp?

>> No.39921421

Woops, should've specified. They're both Torpedo. But I was thinking maybe I could have tons of torpedoes and additional flanking ability if I took Cobras. Or just go with Vipers from Battlefleet Bakka and have the most torpedoes.

>> No.39921526


Or you could go swords and have some actual Weapon Batteries to throw at things. Your cruisers have the Torpedo game sown up pretty well already.

>> No.39921593

Yeah, but Swords don't have the range that Cobras do. Imagine having four Cobras closing in from one side firing torpedoes, Dauntlesses on the other, and then the cruisers throwing up torpedoes up the middle.

>> No.39921689


Since you have plenty of torpedoes, I'd take a mix of firestorms and swords. The two go very well together. About 2-3 swords per firestorm ought to be right.

Between those and your dauntlesses you have plenty of flanking already, maybe even too much. Keeping a solid base of firepower will be very potent to support that.

Also, don't forget you might face eldar. They'll slip right past your torpedoes, but will be terrified of your weapons batteries.

>> No.39921766


Racing that, whatever fleet I'm playing, I'd AAF into melee with one of those groups and roll them up with concentrated firepower before the others can show up to relieve them. Be very careful about breaking formation of dividing your forces. BFG is very much about concentration of force.

>> No.39921828

Well, that's why I didn't go with Cobras flat-out. I've got a lot of torpedoes, which helps make up the relatively short-range of Imperial WBs. But Swords don't have that range, and maybe Firestorms would be worth it for the more reliable lances.

This might end up being the best option. A mixup of Firestorms and Swords will be more potent when the range closes than having Cobras flitting about on the edges of the fight.

I see. Swords and Firestorms it is then.

Thanks a ton guys.

>> No.39923369

The Firestorm is the only unpopular Imperial escort because the lance is front arc only.

Also, searching "battlefleet" doesn't bring up this thread.

>> No.39923942

That's because this is Batte-Fleet Gothic.

But if you're an Escort then the Firestorm is useful to deal some reliable damage as you close, and can keep up with Swords if you're hitting and running. It should be pretty okay.

>> No.39923987


Exactly, swords and firestorms go great together. Firestorms provide punch and swords give you wide-angle saturation fire.

Glad to help!

>> No.39924164
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Good to know someone besides me thought another thread was a good idea, I was getting tired of being the OP the last few threads.

In regard to the topic, I literally cannot get enough of lances. Honestly, if I pick up more cruiser kits, I might just build a ton of gothics and nothing else.

>> No.39925281

Why does the Orbital Sentinel even exist? A single macrobattery shot could vaporize it. Or at least, a shot from a cruiser.

>> No.39925451
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Muh two lunar sisters

>> No.39925883


If you're just starting out with imperial, I can't say it enough... magnetized your weapon mounts! Then you can try different classes and ideas without commuting to them.

>> No.39925887

Because often enough it'll be dealing wity smaller raids from pirates and such who often enough don't have anything bigger than a frigate.

>> No.39926068

It's like the old Soviet way of finding the enemy: reconnaissance by death.

>> No.39926219

so is there a file floating around with all the BFG pdfs in one download or do i need to download each file separately?

>> No.39926284

Because spaceships are cool

>> No.39926295

There is one with all the BFG PDFs available. Unfortunately, it lacks the Imperial warships and Chaos warships from the boxed set rulebook and substitutes them with the warship stats from the Battlefleet Bakka supplement. This is mostly a minor change, except that a lot of explanatory fluff about these ship classes and the Gothic War is lost.

>> No.39926315

there's a gdrive with most everything running around: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1Nr32u9sF3EYWQxMjcxMmItMGU1MS00NzdlLTk1YTktZWQ2MmIwYjU2ZGUz&authuser=0

>> No.39926322

It's smaller than an American supercarrier. Unless the pirates it's fighting are located in the system, it's screwed even against the smallest frigates and destroyers. Maybe not against the Viper Scout Sloop, but I don't remember how small that one is. But most escorts are at least 1km in length.

>> No.39926552

You need several downloads. There's no compendium, even the one called 2010 compendium.

>> No.39926577

Anyone have the module I can download?

>> No.39926607

thanks mate

>> No.39926634

Also, models can be found at aliexpress .

>> No.39927135

Given it's called an orbital sentinel. Being a system defense ship that probably comes in groups is a reasonable assumption.

>> No.39927311

im guessing they dont sell fighters and bombers or does the ships come with some?

>> No.39927343

I have not ventured to order anything yet but I did see stuff as small as cobras here:

>> No.39927432

either way this will be nice as I can build an expedition fleet for my XVI legion boyz

>> No.39927440

They don't have the GW fighter minis.
Personally I used fighter minis from brigademodels.co.uk cheap and plenty detailed enough for the job.

>> No.39927729

Most of us just use cardboard markers. If you search for them in the Specialist-Arms forum you can find some good ones to print out.

>> No.39928013

my ocd wouldn't allow that but brigademodels has a couple of fighters that match the style so it shouldn't bug me

>> No.39928341

Shapeways is good for that sort of thing too.

>> No.39929788

They're customs inspection vessels, shuttles, guidance tugs, etc. Presumably if combat breaks out they're deployed in swarms.

>> No.39930040

On aliexpress, what's the model that's just called "Resin Models Battlefleet Gothic Free Shipping?" It looks like a Chaos ship, which is the fleet I want to start, but I'm not familiar enough with the ship types to tell.

>> No.39930042

how many broadside slots does a battleship have?

>> No.39930088


>> No.39930201

What's this model on Aliexpress represent in the Chaos fleet?


>> No.39930234

Terminus Est, I think we've been over this in the last... 5 BFG Generals?

>> No.39930262


Damn, must have missed it. Cheers.

>> No.39930528
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To be fair, in previous threads we just said that there was a Terminus Est in that store without linking to it.

It's a Despoiler-class battleship with Nurgley decorations all over it - bones, slime, pustules, more slime... and it doesn't have any 'wing' decorations that go along the sides, nor does it come with extra bits (because the weapons bays were slimy metal pieces so there was no need to include the usual plastic sprues). imo it's ugly compared to the normal Despoiler. However, it can be used a normal Despoiler without a problem.

I do wish there were more Chaos ships there. You'll have to turn to eBay or Shapeways for more. Escorts are reasonably priced on both (GW prices were $20 for 3 frigates or 4 of the smallest escort types). Battleships are very expensive on eBay and Shapeways (GW price: $35). The Repulsive was cheaper ($20-25) but you won't find it for cheap anymore.

The good news is that Chaos fleets made up of standard cruisers work very well.

WAIT A MINUTE! The Blackstone Fortress and Firestorms are new on Irene's store! Stuff is being added!

>> No.39931364
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Can someone explain, in detail, the process of launching attack craft?
cos the rulebook is very brief and non specific...

>> No.39931475

The 2010 FAQ should do a better job than most of us can.

>> No.39931560

So I'm trying to use BFG as the basis for making fluffy fleets in Rogue Trader. But I never really got a good question on just how ships communicate when they're in interstellar space. Like, if you have a convoy of freighters stopping over at a barren star system and they suddenly find themselves under attack by pirates, how could they possibly expect to be saved by a passing patrol unless they somehow evade the enemy for weeks on end?

>> No.39931719

FTL comms is astropaths. Also a patrol is likely only a few dozen light years from some kind of staging point. Such short warpjumps are normally fairly quick just a matter of hours.

>> No.39931766

astropaths. Running ships is expensive cuz they pretty much all have astropaths in addition to navigators.

>> No.39931784

...have you not even read any of your sourcebooks?

>> No.39931827

I know they have astropaths, but doesn't warp communication normally take days if not weeks to reach the intended recipients, if at all?

>> No.39931851

Astropathic communication is normally faster than warp travel over similar distances. Even going across the whole galaxy only takes years. Something really short range like a patrol a few light years out is hours, minutes on a good day.

>> No.39931947


Not a Russian, but their counterargument was that the American approach to "recon" was to send their whole force to blunder into the enemy.

The truth is more complicated. Americans rarely used ACRs for actual recon. It ended up being more like a reserve formation. Recon was done by the air force, which is likely to have superiority.

Russians, meanwhile, designed their recon units to stay back and avoid contact. Each tank battalion's second company could be attached for security. In very rough fighting, that reinforced recon unit (and related units like forward detachments) start looking a lot like an ACR.

Soviets felt that Americans were stupid to put a whole division at risk by not gathering enough recon, while Americans felt that Soviet recon policies were callous.

>> No.39931954


Brigade, gzg, and shapeways have a ton of fighters you can use.

>> No.39931977


Re-read the Rogue Trader fluff on strategic turns. Battles can take many hours or days of maneuver, which the game compresses.

>> No.39932018

>ships are decorated with skulls hundreds of meters wide
Oh Warhammer, you so silly

>> No.39932533

To clarify, this guy is talking about travel times, not communication times. Astropathic communication is instantaneous, regardless of the distance.

>> No.39932589

Astropathic communication isn't instant. It's faster than warp travel but still takes time. An old map from one of the rulebooks (3e i think) puts a message most of the way across the galaxy at a 7 or 8 month delay.

>> No.39932797

ok so if my port launch bays are 2 and my starboard launch bays are 2 then I launch 4 ships straight ahead?

>> No.39932843



In fact, if two or more in the same squadron are in base contact they can launch as one big wave.

Of course, big waves are vulnerable to fighters and long range gunnery. So not necessarily smart, but it IS possible.

>> No.39932955

OK, so, I have a friend who I want to indoctrinate into BFG,
I've got 4 chaos cruisers, 2 imperial cruisers, 3 sword frigates and five cobras.

What would be an even match up to make out of those?

>> No.39933158

Don't know heaps about chaos but maybe
2 lunars with 3 swords for imperials
1 murder with 1 carnage with 4 Iconoclasts (proxy the cobras) Should be an even enough fight.
once you want too play with more ordnance than just torps swap a cruiser on each side too a devestation (plus extra inconclast) and dictator cariers respectively.

>> No.39933611
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Don't use a.Murder and a Carnage; they look the same with slightly different stats and will cause confusion. Carnage and Acheron or Slaughter, imo.

>> No.39934601

So just 2 murders then?

>> No.39935080

Yeah, and for good reason. If it becomes any bigger, it'll become a Murder of Murders.

>> No.39935181
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So what you're saying is, right now we've got an Attempted Murder here?

>> No.39935218


Love the paint job. Well done.

>> No.39935276

I believe thats due to the staffete nature of the thing.

They relay stuff to OTHER astropaths.

Thats why it is so slow, it could be instanteanous but no astropath has unlimited reach.

>> No.39935483
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Sweet, my Ali order should arrive in a few days. Will post pics upon arrival.

>> No.39935722

Did you get an email too, friend?

>> No.39935869
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I did indeed, good sir. Color me excited. Not a large order, just one Battleship, but I wanted to see if it was worth it before I jumped in with both feet.

And yes Captcha, burritos are also sushi.

>> No.39935884

They should bring eldar and orks fore.

I don't even hope for the Dark Eldar ones.

They were far to old.

>> No.39936031
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Yeah, I was never a fan of the official Dark Eldar fleet minis. All the good stuff has been kitbashed from 40k Dark Eldar parts.

>> No.39936090

But its very expensive to build these, isn't it?

On the other hand..if I think about it...som left over splinter rifles or shredders....5 jet bikes in a squad and hellions too....


Seems as if DEldar are a possibility.

>> No.39936150

If you're interested, try posting an ad on Bartertown.com, looking for parts. Lots of folks who are swimming in bits are very happy to sell them at a good price, and the community is friendly as well.

>> No.39936211

Is it predominantly for the us or international?

Reading in just now.

>> No.39936350

The site is US-based, but it depends on the person, really. Some folks will ship internationally, others wont. Really comes down to the seller, in this instance, and if they're willing to ship it internationally (and if you're willing to pay the shipping cost).

>> No.39936368

Thanks, will try to look for something euro based.

Thank you for showing me that site.

>> No.39936484
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No worries, good luck and post pics if/when you get something done.

>> No.39936516

Might do an unboxing thing if I get something delivered.

>> No.39936681

Would you guys like me to post the papercraft templates for BFG ships?

>> No.39936717
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Not these , right?

>> No.39936850
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Yes, those.

>> No.39936945

Has anyone used a Blackstone Fortress? They seem very lackluster.

>> No.39936983

Oh shit Oberon, what are you doing?

>> No.39937010
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Okay, prepare your anus...I believe I have evrything except Dark Eldar.

Looking rad, thats what.

>> No.39937023
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But maybe we can use regular Eldar or that, just put some filters on that thing and it should be ok.

>> No.39937039
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>> No.39937056
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I wish BFG revised would have done orks yet.


>> No.39937091
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>> No.39937110
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>> No.39937114
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If you have the rest covered I will post Deldar, do you have Rogue Trader ships?

>> No.39937139

I've been lurking the specialist arms forums and it seems that this fleet list is all but done and intended to be the 'official' version for BFG:R.
Its status hasn't been updated in over a year, though, so I'm not sure what's up.

Does it seem balanced?

>> No.39937150


Assuming you pay retail, it comes out to:

Escorts: $25 / 5 hellions = 5 escorts = $5 / escort


Cruisers: $39.50 / 3 reavers = 3 cruisers = $13.17 / cruiser

I've had some good experiences on Bartertown, and one or two really bad ones. Local bits boxes ought to be free if you have a half-friend who collects tyrannids he'll have far more bits than he can handle. To get bits to make orcs, go to the corpse of a radioshack or take an 80's era boombox and smash it with a hammer.

>> No.39937181


Yeah, either activated or dormant they're pretty lackluster. However, for a scenario they can be cool. And they really are VERY powerful, just not quite so powerful as the fluff or points value would have you believe.


There was a dark eldar list floating around that made them operate more like regular Eldar, but I can't seem to find it anymore.

>> No.39937244
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Yep, allready posted.

Here the last ones I have, thanks for Deldar, mang.

>> No.39937248

I always see Lunar/Lunar or Lunar/Gothic plus four Swords for 500 point starter lists. Are the other cruisers not as good at that size?

>> No.39937272

No problem, are they only meant to have two types of ship?

And I should find someone to play BFG with then print these off.

>> No.39937313

Hmm, thanks.

Will try to find something....I have a friend who bought some reavers.

Hope he'll part with his for a favourable price, since he never built them.

>> No.39937362

Thanks, but they don't list the grandcruiser of BFG:R.

Will repurpose a regular eldar battleship then.

>> No.39937401

Dark Eldar always move pretty normally. MMS rules (currently 1.9) make Corsair and Craftworld Eldar move pretty normally.

>> No.39937442

Gothics seem to get better in larger games. The Dominator and Tyrant are good, but the old boxed set (2 cruisers) only had four weapons battery bits, so if you built one, your other ship had to be a Gothic.

>> No.39937574


And you can find places that sell GW for much less. I'm just showing that even at retail it isn't terrible since you're really only buying a box or two then you're done.

>> No.39937643


True, but I sort of hate "waste".

What will I do with all these U-legged Eldar?

But true, relatively easy to do.

Thank you.

How so?

No sun-sails for regular eldar?
And I thought DEldar moved normally forever.

>> No.39937745

>What will I do with all these U-legged Eldar?

Boy did you ever come to the right place if you need an answer to that question.

>> No.39938404

>How so?
>No sun-sails for regular eldar?

I didn't say that quite right. They still move with sunsails, but it's move-move-shoot instead of move-shoot-move so it's arguably more fun for your opponent and you need to think a little harder about how you position your ships. The rules come with points and stats adjustments - it's a pretty significant re-write. The idea is that the way Eldar move in the real rules is fluffy and feels right, but isn't as much fun.

You're right about DEldar always moving normally.

>> No.39938445

Damn you people for continuing to have these threads and making me want to play this again.

I just ordered an Apoc BB and a pair of Imperial cruisers (to go with the Ret BB, Mars, Dauntless, triple Firestorms, and Cobras I had left over from 2001-ish) for a game I'm likely to never get to play again.

>> No.39938555

Is the 'standard' chaos 500 point start list Murder class, Murder class and then some Iconoclasts?

>> No.39938790


can you guys tell me if this is a space marine ship ?

Alternatively can you point me to all the space marine ships that are sold on ali

>> No.39938798
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Heh, I know the feeling man. There is absolutely no one around here to play with, and yet I just dropped dosh on a bunch of Mechanicus ships.

Maybe we can pull off a pseudo Field of Dreams here - you know, "If you build it, the games will come."

>> No.39938818

That's the Tau battleship. The space marine ships are titled Battle Barge and Strike Cruiser.

>> No.39938857

be ready to print out flats of other factions so you can get people to try it

>> No.39938870

Looking at the stats it seems chaos ships have both faster engines and more firepower for a similar or lower price. Do torpedoes and the armoured prow really make up for this in play?

>> No.39938959

Well, I just ordered myself a despoiler battleship. I have no idea if I will ever end up playing this game, but at least I'll have a sweet model to paint up. Anyone have any advice on actually finding a game? I live in the SF Bay Area, so there should be SOME kind of group around here.

>> No.39939043

What worked for me and getting folks into games was finding a local store and just putting up a flyer advertising for folks. Hitting up their facebook/twitter works well too, if you can stand using either of those services. Also, setting up a demo game is a good idea too. Folks seem much more likely to give it a shot if they can see it for themselves.

Could try Craigslist too, but considering you're in the Bay Area, you might meet some...speshul people, so be careful. I know the feeling though, I'm down in Monterey and no one around here has heard of BFG. Depressing, but such is life.

>> No.39939193


Best bet is to collect and paint multiple fleets and let people play one of yours against another.

>> No.39939428

Where do you guys find your ships

>> No.39939476


Look upthread and at the last few BFG general threads. There's a ton of good alternatives, plus places to still get the original minis.

Also: cupcakes are ice cream.

>> No.39939504

Ebay, craigslist, bartering sites and recasters. If you're patient you can get a good deal from the latter, but prepare thy anus (and wallet) if you hit up Ebay.

>> No.39939521

Either that, or two Carnages and whatever escorts you want (Infidels or Iconoclasts recommended). The Carnage-class wants to circle the enemy and fire to one side. The Murder wants to behave like an Imperial cruiser and head towards the enemy before turning to fire broadsides (which is riskier due to its 5+ prow armor).

Carnage, Slaughter, and escorts is okay too. The Slaughter and escorts can operate together while the Carnage circles. I like Carnage+Acheron, but it isn’t technically legal.

For larger Chaos fleets, I think Carnages, Devastations, and an Acheron work better than anything involving Murders so I recommend going that route. Slaughters (with escorts or in pairs) don’t stay with the main line, so they work in either kind of fleet.

Yes. More so in higher-points battles.

>> No.39939554

Where can you find the recasters? I'm new to this and i'm not at all versed in the archive system.

>> No.39939721

Other than Aliexpress, most of us here (myself included) don't know of any BFG recasters. There may be Epic recasters - go into that thread to try to get their attention (they'll ask you to leave an email address).

>> No.39939992

If it was two Carnage class cruisers vs the stereotypical two Lunar class would it be best to circle them opposite directions?

>> No.39940035

Not at all! It increases the chances that the Lunars will find themselves close to one of your ships, which they will pummel while the other one is too far away to help. You also run the risk of letting the Lunars fire from both sides - that's the ideal scenario for most ships (for any ship that has Left- and Right-arc weaponry)

>> No.39940221

Ah makes sense. I was thinking in terms of them having to either split themselves up or expose their less armoured sides to one of the cruisers at a range they cannot fire back at.

>> No.39941412

Off topic, is there a good place to play tabletop in Monterey? I enjoy travelling down there, and would love to check out the local scene.

>> No.39941633
File: 1.99 MB, 249x219, 1384457483542.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

We just had a store open up a few months ago called Mythic Games, near downtown. Nice folks, and a few tables devoted specifically to tabletop gaming. Seen just about everything played there, from 40k/fantasy to Dropzone Commander, Firestorm Armada/Planetfall, X-wing/Armada, etc. Only thing missing these days is BFG, heh.

Their prices are high, but that's the norm around here. Owners are cool too, but they know absolutely jack shit about most games (aside from Infinity, which gets a lot of attention).

>> No.39942465

The looping on that gif is impeccable.

>> No.39943907
File: 119 KB, 900x600, ramiliesstarport.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

For anyone wondering how to use the AdMech ships that are suddenly so easily available…

I don’t really recommend the Ark Mechanicus, only because you have to take the expensive admiral and AdMech fleets are always outnumbered as it is. You also don’t need as many attack craft as other fleets do (because of your great turrets) – so I’d go with an Oberon or Retribution. I like the latter because of its armored prow. The 2010 FAQ lets you upgrade light cruisers’ prows to 6+ too, at the expense of turning rates. That lets them participate in your line of well-armored ships bearing down on the enemy. It’s easier to use their light cruisers that way – just treat them as smaller regular cruisers that let you make up for your high point costs.

You do need some attack craft though – a Dictator in a 1500 point fleet is the minimum if you don’t take an Oberon. Probably a Gothic and a pair of Endeavors after that, then Hunters and Swords.

I normally don't like Firestorms, but these do fit the AdMech lance-escort look perfectly...

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