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[ERROR] No.39870830 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

>The king has been assassinated!
>So now the crown is out some gold for a rez spell

>> No.39870847

>>39870830
Try not playing D&D.

>> No.39870852

Unless the church of whatever doesn't have a priest with a high enough level to cast that spell.

>> No.39870854

>>39870830
once a member of nobility dies, they lose the ability to hold that title again. they are still of the upper class, but if they wish to have political power again, they must gain it through marriage, the church, or a knighthood

>> No.39870892

>Idiot Mode: Playing in a world where resurrection exists
>Full Retard Mode: Playing in a world where resurrections not only exist but are simply a matter of money and not an epic quest like finding the 7 magic wish macguffins.

>> No.39870899

Not if the assassin finds a way to take or destroy his soul.

>> No.39870914

As monarchy is derived from warrior culture, death is a sign of failure or inability to carry out ones duties. Thus kings, who must be the greatest warriors, are not permitted ressurection

>> No.39870938

>>39870854
Kind of like how it works in Girl Genius. Which is how Klaus has so many of the Europan nobility in his pocket, because he knows which of them have been resurrected, either because his spies found out, or because he's the one that performed the procedure.

>> No.39870946

>>39870938
literally what I got the idea from

>> No.39870969

>>39870946
>>39870938
You two should probably keep quiet about your bad taste.

>> No.39870987

>>39870847
This entire board should have an auto reply to every thread going "Try not playing D&D" - Or maybe have it be part of the sticky.

These kinds of shitty things only happen because people keep playing a trainwreck of a setting, that was not even intended to be an actual roleplaying game, but more of a "game game". It was never intended to be used for actual settings and worlds, but the makers decided to go full retard and do it anyway.

No one important can logically be killed properly. They'd always just be revived, however many times you'd need to.

The absolute only justifications of removing a king through killing him, is pathetic excuses like >>39870914 or >>39870854

Ressurection is a horrible thing to put in a setting. The only time it works even slightly, is shit where performing the ressurection is tough as fuck, and not something you can feasibly do because someone, even a king, died.

>> No.39870988

>>39870830
If he died in a cutscene, the Phoenix Down won't work anymore.

Also that >>39870892
Even though it's blatant trollbait, it's not wrong.

>> No.39871213

>>39870847

Okay I'll try that...

...

Holy Shit this game has some way to bring the dead back to life too!

Damn it's almost like resurrection is a common aspect of many games and not something specific to D&D or something.

>> No.39871251

>>39870938
You beat me to it. I love the way that series handles bringing people back to life.

>> No.39871300

>>39870830

>paying someone to commit regicide
>not paying a bit extra for a scroll of Soul Trap or something to keep the king from getting brought back.

Your money grubbing ass deserves what's coming to you for being cheap.

>> No.39871310

>>39871213
Ressurection spells exist because roleplayers are coddled casuals nowadays and the thought of something permanently happening to hurt their characters or even kill them is scury to them. It's not like the videogames they're used to, where everything makes them feel super badass and if they die they can just reload the last checkpoint and go through the entire game not feeling a single emotion except "LOL LOOK AT ME WRECK REKTING THESE BITCHES!"

The game companies want to push games. If their customers have to think up actual stories, make actual decisions, or feel the tension of actual decisions, they'll just go back to the cellphones or boot up the Xbox and play Skyrim instead, where they can be swaddled in a comforting embrace of generic mediocrity.

>> No.39871355

>>39871310
>there a games without perma death/limited lives

>> No.39871401

>>39871213
Try actually looking. Iron Kingdoms has no way to bring back the dead. Your character can survive an absurd amount of damage but once he's dead, he's dead.

>> No.39871459

>>39871213
>>39871401
Or, you know. You could just find a group that can actually do world-building and house-rule those kinds of things out of their settings.


Nevermind. I've given you an impossible task. 99.9% of homebrew settings are retarded magical-real fetish shit.

>> No.39871480

>>39871355
People bully me because I don't reset when my units die in Fire Emblem...

>> No.39871578

>>39871310
>Ressurection spells exist because roleplayers are coddled casuals nowadays

but RPGs have had Resurrection mechanics since forever, unless by nowadays you mean since the 70's

>> No.39871581

>>39871480
My fiends laughed at me when I told them I started xcom on Hard Honorman and got my ass kicked.

>But that's because I didn't know how to play the game yet
>Lol, y dindu jus reload till everyone survived?


I ended up save scumming a lot on my third run through because holy shit, how can i park five guys next to a thin man spawn, have them all miss overwatch, and all miss their attacks? Fucking hell why did I think second wave options would be fun. Why did I enable red fog, why training roulette, why flanking, why did I do that to myself.

>> No.39871621

>>39871459
No you've just shifted the goal posts from "D&D is shit because it has a common feature of many Table Top RPGs" to "Just house rule them away like a sensible person"

>> No.39871659

"D&D is shit, go play something else."
Never mentions a fantasy alternative worth a damn.

>> No.39871676

>>39870830
>The king has been assassinated!
>So now the crown is out some gold for a rez spell
>Wait the rez spell isn't working
>The king doesn't want to leave the plane of NotHeaven to come back to a country embroiled in a civil war! How strange!

>> No.39871684

>>39871581
Try XCOM Long War.
Maybe then you'll have permission to complain

>> No.39871691

>The king is assassinated
>The king is resurrected
>The king immediately starts making insane edicts
>Appoints total strangers to positions of authority
>Declares war on neighbor for no real reason
>Help help we're being repressed
>Turns out the assassin found a way to trap the true king's soul and switch it for another.

>> No.39871735

>>39871659
You noticed that too? They always say "hurr durr D&D bad, you am bad" but never suggest alternatives.

I would actually really like it if they suggested alternatives because I've been wanting to try something different, but I've still got a hankering for knights and wizards.

>> No.39871766

>>39871735
I've always heard Dungeon World thrown around, but I've never played the system so idklol.

>> No.39871770

>>39871691
And this is why you don't trust strange wizards who just show up out of nowhere and promise miracles for your country.

>> No.39871808

>>39871735

Do you want crunchy and unforgiving? Or do you want rules light and cinematic?

>> No.39871845

>>39871770
Man I don't know who these guys are, but they look professional, and legit. You know what? I'm gonna fire all my advisors, and hire these guys. Can they babysit for my heirs as well? I mean, damn their dress is so well coordinated. I was born at night but it wasn't last night, know what I mean? I know trustworthy people when I see them.

>> No.39871894

>>39871808
At this point I'm open to anything except Fate.

>> No.39871895

>>39871766
I used to hear that, but now Dungeon World is apparently the current flavor of the month to shit on so I dunno.

>> No.39871922

>>39871735
Mostly what I notice they do it for things that dozens of other games do as well so even if you did stop playing D&D you'd still run into the same problem

>> No.39871969

>>39870899
Yeah.
Low level kingdom means no res and cheap assassins.
High level kingdom means res is easily available, but one hires expensive soul-snatching assassins instead.

>> No.39871998

>>39871969
What about a bargain bucket kingdom that uses Reincarnate instead?

>> No.39872050

>>39871922
Good thing there are more than a dozen other systems you dumb fucker

>> No.39872053

>>39870987
What if the monarch was decided by group consensus based on who seemed fittest to rule?

Dying in a stupid way would force a by-election.

>> No.39872086

>>39871894

My suggestion for rules heavy and unforgiving is Torchbearer. It uses the same system as Mouseguard... or as my group calls it "Starving to Death Tabletop Adventures". Torchbearer is a game in which running out of torches or lamp oil is a pretty much guaranteed tpk. It's very dark, it's very serious, you WILL die, and by the time it happens it'll be a relief.

My suggestion for rules light and cinematic is Jaws of the Six Serpents. It's based on PDQ which is a roleplaying system that literally hands players plot device tokens in exchange for making up cool shit. The default setting is basically Conan with the serial numbers filed off, so there isn't a shitload of magic and most of it is evil, but it's also a really easy system to tinker and homebrew in. It's a game where you take "psychological damage" for being humiliated, and then repair that damage with ale and whores. The kind of game where your character can ONLY die if you agree it's a really really cool death.

If you want a game about accumulating treasure and getting more powerful for its own sake... I honestly haven't seen anything much better than DnD or Pathfinder. Sorry.

>> No.39872088

>>39871998
Well in that case it depends on the roll I suppose.

Long Live King Badger!

>> No.39872127

>>39871581
>>My fiends
Evil wizard detected

>> No.39872161

>>39871735
Hackmaster

>> No.39872190

>>39870830
>Unknown party, presumably proxy of his successor (but no prooving connection can be made) offers large sum of money to make sure resurrection doesn't happen or goes awfully wrong.

>> No.39872192

>>39870830
>The Goddess of Death only allows someone to be resurrected if they have some greater purpose yet to fulfill
There you go.

>> No.39872225

>>39872050
and all will do at least one of the things people say "have you not tried playing D&D?" about because people say that over every damn thing.

>> No.39872316

>King is killed and resurrected
>Again
>and again
>and AGAIN
>For fuck sake, are you people ruled by Krillin?
>Pharasma has had enough of your shit
>Maruts. Maruts EVERYWHERE.
>This was the BBEG's plan all along.

>> No.39872389

>>39870969
>fgt pls go

>> No.39872415

>>39871621
>shifting the goal posts

Only idiots use that phrase.

>> No.39872434

>>39871213
>Damn it's almost like resurrection is a common aspect of many games and not something specific to D&D or something.

It's not. But faggots like you think it's common because it's featured in games like Pathfinder and World of Warcraft as well, as if those aren't basic derivatives of D&D.

Try not being a total cock-mongling faggot and look through fantasy systems that aren't basically the inbred cousins of D&D, or is that too hard for you?

>> No.39872437

>>39871310
>Rain of Salt

>> No.39872469

>>39870938
Is this a Taiwanese Theater performance? It sounds intriguing.

>> No.39872489

>>39872415
Just jumping into this thread to tell you that you're dumb as fuck, moving the goal posts is a common fallacy in arguments and pointing it out is something everyone should do.

Next you'll be saying that pointing out Strawmen is bad because then all your methods of argumentation goes out the window.

>> No.39872501

>>39871676
>Suicide is a sin
>So king hired an assassin through one of his brothers to kill him.

>> No.39872516

>>39871310
It would be really unfortunate if there was any truth to your statement, like the presence of Raise Dead more than 40 years ago on page 33.

>> No.39872746

>>39872086
Thanks! This is what I wish people would do instead of just "muh duh D&D bad"

>> No.39872904

>>39871684
Oh for sure, I can't complain to good players, but my fiends are fucking shitters at this shit and think they're good that they managed to have everyone survive a normal mission after three reloads.

>> No.39873018

>>39872904
>not just accepting death as it comes, learning from your mistakes, and mourning the dead
Disgusting.

>> No.39873055

>>39872469
Webcomic. Try it, you might like it.
http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20021104
Worth a warning, though; from volume 8 onwards the story slows to a crawl. Probably because of too many viewpoint characters. I was hoping volume 14 would address that as the main character ditches most of their entourage, but they all catch right up again. Still, if you're archive crawling that doesn't matter until you catch up.

>> No.39873113

>>39873055
awful

>> No.39873136

>>39872088
Now I want to create a setting in which Resurrection doesn't exist but Reincarnate does. Perhaps it's not even all that rare.

>> No.39873170

>>39870892

For some reason this comment has inspired me to put the dragon balls into my game world. Not even thinly disguised dragon balls. You just gather them all up and Shenron pops out.

>> No.39873266

>>39873113
I said "might". Personally, I like the aesthetic and the comedy works for me, but both of those are a matter of taste. If you don't find the idea of that gun or the sound that gun makes funny, then more power to you.

>> No.39873305

>>39873136

Or maybe it just always happens when you die?

Like, there have always been the same number of people in this world, there is no procreation, and every single time you die, you automatically reincarnate. Maybe a different race, maybe a different gender, but always with your memory intact. With death having a completely different meaning, murder is a slap-on-the-wrist crime. A world full of people thousands of years old desperately searching for something ANYTHING to give their existence meaning.

Probably a better tv show or novel than an RPG setting. Though I guess it could be an interesting world to have outsider characters plane shift into...

>> No.39873346

>>39873055
Oh it's steampunky, ok, this might be nifty. Thanks m80

>> No.39873385

>>39873266

Personally, I have the same problem with GG that I do with Goblins. The art style of the faces just BOTHERS me. Everything I've ever heard about the comic, I like. It sounds witty and clever and charming and lots of other good words, but holy shit what is wrong with his FAAAACE

>> No.39873437

>>39870987
It could also be like the Deldar. Fully destroying the body or leaving the body alone for too long causes true death. Maybe some arcane weapon or spell or poisom destroyed/stole/damaged the king's soul. I don't know, I'm just spitballing here.

>> No.39873443

>>39873055
>girl genius
Ugh

>> No.39873477

>>39873385
Foglio is what's wrong with his face. He couldn't draw 20 years ago and he certainly can't draw now.

Also, "witty"? Really?

>> No.39873583

>>39873477

Keep in mind this is what I've heard from friends trying to get me to read it, of course they cherry pick the least shitty bits and present them in the best possible light.

>> No.39873626

>>39871684
>Long War
Maybe not the latest version unless if you want a face full of magnificent design and bugged nodes on bomb missions. Latest I'd recommend would be 15b.

>> No.39873671

>>39873583
If you want good webcomics, check out Paranatural, Stand still stay silent and Kill Six Billion Demons.

I'm not gonna quote shit because these webcomics don't need someone to sell them on you to be good.

>> No.39873755

>>39873671
Am I retarded, or is Kill Six Billion Demons really really fucking short right now? It only goes till she's back in her apartment and not sure if it all really happened?

>> No.39873833

>>39873755
If by short you mean updates sparsely then yes.

From beginning to where we are now it's not really that short.

>> No.39873847

>>39873305
>A world full of people thousands of years old desperately searching for something ANYTHING to give their existence meaning.
You assume that they would feel that way and not just build the raddest model train sets in the multiverse.

>> No.39873867

>>39873833
am I up to date? Because it felt short. She like, literally just got the command to kill 6billionDemons

>> No.39873920

>>39873847

I have to assume that would get old after a few millenia.

But then, anything anyone says about what it's like to live forever is a guess for now.

>> No.39873933

>>39872516
There is also permanent limit to being raised equal to your INITIALconstitution score

>> No.39873938

>>39870830

You sound like you have a problem with it. Maybe you should try to elaborate what exactly it is.

>> No.39873999

>>39873867
If you're here you're up to date.

Updates have been picking up recently though and the comic hasn't been going for honestly all that long, so keep calm and trust in Yisun.

>> No.39874015

>>39873999
eh, here: http://killsixbilliondemons.com/comic/wielder-of-names-1-2/

>> No.39874111

>>39874015
>http://killsixbilliondemons.com/comic/wielder-of-names-1-2/
oh neat, i am behind.

>> No.39874174

>>39873266
>I like the aesthetic
>and the comedy works for me
Anon, please. What did I tell you about your shit taste?

>> No.39874191

>>39870847
Or you can just not play with a bunch of casuals. Resurrection isn't specific to any format or game, but rather the players themselves.

>> No.39874239

>>39873170
>not making them "energy balls" and having Kenneth Lay pop out

>> No.39874241

>>39874174

>> No.39874243

>>39871581
Gah, I remember thinking I was pretty good because I did my first Classic run and only lost five men.
Then I did Classic Ironman and won the seventeenth attempt after losing forty-two of them, along with Africa, most of Asia, and my desire to see the rest of my men survive.
But holy shit, those survivors. And I got An Army Of Four, too, which felt good.

>> No.39874315

>>39873867
it's not a command, her name is literally 'Kill Six Billion Demons'.

on topic - when rez is a thing that you can do, and magic is a thing that happens, you don't have the king assassinated in the pedestrian, real-world manner. that's just being intentionally ignorant of the realities of your game world and then claiming that somehow rez magic is a problem. and even if you do just treat it as a real-world problem with a magic solution that is somehow not factored into the plans of the nefarious assassin or his employer, there are other circumstances that would prevent resurrection.

in DnD, unless you have access to serious magic, your rezzing is limited by time and the state of the corpse anyway. Even if you have the equivalent of the pope living in your kingdom, it still requires significant resources - which may not be possible to muster depending on the immediate aftermath of said assassination anyway - coup, civil war, the dual assassination of the king and said pope, etc. the bad guys could abscond with the body, or burn it up, or otherwise destroy it so only serious rez magic could work - magic most people frankly don't have access to.

this is leaving out things that trap the soul or exotic means of killing a person - try killing the regent with green slime, for instance - you now have green slime and no body. try turning them into ice and freezing them. try magic jar, trap the soul, turning them into an inanimate object or small animal and running off with them in a cage. better yet, turn them into a fix, carry them out, and dump them into the ocean. good luck finding said king without serious magical aid - and by then they've been deposed/replaced with a successor and civil war erupts on their return.

the fact is that while death isn't a permanent thing in DnD, it's not the actual death that is the issue - it's the direct aftermath of the death and the resulting actions that really matter to the game.

>> No.39874336

>>39871213
what game it is then? it is actually pretty rare.

>> No.39874369

>>39873671
I'd also recommend Lackadaisy, Nedroid, and Homestuck if you're not already reading them. That last one is controversial, but it has a lot in it for people who enjoy worldbuilding and read only for themselves and not a larger community. There's plenty about it that you only Get if you're capable of literary analysis, too.

>> No.39874399

>>39874241
>I like thing
Ok. And? How is that more glorified and proper and deserving of board space? Foglio is artistically incompetent, sexually disturbing, and thinks broken puns and self-reference are the heights of humor.

>> No.39874489

>>39871735
its because fantasy is the #1 genre in the entire RPG scene, and even in the majority of videogames, so saying "play something else" is literally so full of option that entire threads will be derailed by them.

>> No.39874621

>>39870830
>Kings rule by Divine Right, and death is God's way of saying "You're done"
>The next in line for the throne says gg no r-e-z
>the assassin took the time and prepped for this, trapping or destroying the King's soul
I've never understood these threads. Do you think you're being clever? Do you think that something being different from real life is stupid? Do you think that the fact that you've declared something stupid makes it stupid?
It's like saying
>I hate PB&Js
>This setting only offers sandwiches, how dumb
You close off all other possibilities just to prove your point, but it just makes you look dumb.

>> No.39874894

>>39872050
not him, but he said dozenS so that implies a minimum of 24.

>> No.39875143

>>39872434
>"Yo guys before we start my game won't have easy access to Resurrection spells so that death is more than just a somewhat expensive inconvenience"

One sentence and the problem is averted before it even comes up, or is that too hard for you?

>> No.39875203

>>39873933
Actually you lose a level, only lose Con when you're 1st level.

>> No.39875239

>>39875203
That's only in later editions, which weren't being talked about.

>> No.39875284

>>39874621
Well, it could be a 'what if' scenario for settings where resurrection is available to the wealthy. It's not necessarily a problem, just a different sort of setting.

>> No.39875293

>>39875143
How does that relate to whether player-guided resurrection is available in many systems or not? Because that's what my post was about.

>> No.39875316

>>39871691
>Or just being dead changes a man.

>> No.39875396

>>39872501

>> No.39875618

>>39870847
>>39870987
>>39871310
>>39871401
>>39872434
>>39875293
>Anything that's in the rule book has to be used
>Anything that doesn't have explicitly laid out mechanics can't happen
Congratulations on being one of the main reasons it's nearly impossible to have an honest discussion about the relative merits of different RPG system on /tg/

>> No.39875731

>>39872316
if I went that way, instead of pharasma throwing a fit it would be the Inveitables ( or what ever the planar Judges in the setting would be.) They get pissed, and they seek out and destroy ALL forms of magic on the in the setting.

Thus, the BBEG, a Fighter , get his revenge on every magic user in the setting EVER.

>> No.39875847

>>39875731

Maruts are what pathfinder calls inevitables of death...

>> No.39875885

>>39874399
>artistically incompetent, sexually disturbing, and thinks broken puns and self-reference are the heights of humor
I'm not even the same guy, but you know you just described /tg/, right? No offense intended to the better drawfags, mind. Hell, a google search for "thri-kreen erotica" will get you everything but the pun.

>> No.39875902

>>39874894
Still works. There are more than 24 fantasy RPGs better than D&D.

>> No.39875929

>>39875618
Wait, you actually expect people to discuss what you can handwave into a system? Because you can handwave ANYTHING into ANY system. If you don't realize this, you're probably the dumbest person I've met this month and that's saying a lot.

Systems have to be discussed RAW, or there's exactly zero point in discussing them.

>> No.39876097

>>39875929
>Systems have to be discussed RAW, or there's exactly zero point in discussing them.
So what you're saying is that an otherwise great system with one or two broken but easily fixable mechanics has to be considered horrible and broken and something we're never ever allowed to recommend to anyone, ever. Got it.

>> No.39876235

>>39876097
>insert post along lines of "talking about dnd not another system with one or two broken thing"

>> No.39876294

>>39876097
No, but each flaw in the system, no matter how easily fixable, has to be taken into consideration and accepted as just that, a flaw. The exact same system without that flaw is objectively better.

Because if you can use "Eh, you can handwave it" as a fix to a certain problem, you can use it as a fix to any problem, and at that point talking about a system becomes entirely meaningless.

>> No.39876518

Its not that hard to block rezzing in 3.5, the assassins just need money or spellcasters.

>soul binding spells
>turn him into a zombie and hide it
>thinaun weapons
>use a demiplane to age him
>just make him so depressed he rejects the spell

>> No.39876558

>>39876294
>Because if you can use "Eh, you can handwave it" as a fix to a certain problem, you can use it as a fix to any problem, and at that point talking about a system becomes entirely meaningless.
That's fucking retarded. Some things are easier to fix than others. 3.5e's balance problems go well beyond handwaving. With the amount of things you'd need to change to fix the problem, you might as well just homebrew your own system. Meanwhile, it's easy to take out or add in resurrection. Literally all the GM has to do is say, "Oh, and by the way, you're allowed/not allowed to revive your character if you die."

>> No.39876588

>>39876518
Cant gods also block a resurrect spell? Say he was a just and righteous king and he reforms him into a guardian of the plane or an angle, the god could just wave the spell away.

That or another god could interfere.

Really, if you wanted to "assassinate" the king, just cast imprisonment and never let the king out. As long as you do not get caught and it looked like the king was kidnapped, know one would know to cast Freedom to save him.

>> No.39877618

>>39872086
For the last one, Fantasycraft. It does "being DnD" a whole hell of a lot better than 3.5 did. Or, well, it does 3.5 better than 3.5 did.

>> No.39878003

>>39877618
As much as I love Fantasycraft, it's a different beast entirely, even if they share a similar bone structure. Both it and 3.5 are about having loads and loads of character options, but D&D is mainly about murderhoboing around. You can definitely murderhobo in FC, but if that's all you use it for then a lot of the content is kind of wasted. Fantasycraft is what you should use if you want the PCs to do a little bit of everything- stealth, intrigue, diplomacy, exploration- along with the killing and stealing.

>> No.39878064

>>39870830
True Death.

Or steal the body.

>> No.39878235

Anyone willing to go to the effort to assassinate a king would presumably put in that bit of extra effort required to make it stick.

>> No.39878515

>>39876097
nice slippery slop.

there needs to be argument to fix those same issues in respect of how different playgroups want to play it, and there are systems that just dont work for certain playgroups, if resurrection doesnt work for you but there entire adventures, books and expected playstyles that take it for granted then maybe that system is not for you.

>> No.39878553

>>39878515
>slipper slope
>Systems have to be discussed RAW, or there's exactly zero point in discussing them.
Dear Pot,
You are black.
Sincerely, Kettle

>> No.39878666

>>39878515
How is that a slippery slope, or any other fallacy you mistakenly believe to understand the definition of? It is literally what you said.

>> No.39879041

>>39878553
That's not a slippery slope, it's a fucking tautology. If you accept that any system can be hacked apart to be fixed, that eliminates any ability to discuss a system as is.

>>39878666
Not even remotely, you human-shaped turd pile.

>> No.39879144

>>39875618
Congratulations on being the actual reason it's impossible to have an honest discussion about the relative merits of different systems on /tg/. Protip, you can't talk about the merits of a system by ignoring the literal features of the literal system. Your homebrew is wholly irrelevant.

>> No.39879231

>>39879041
No, it doesn't, because not all fixes are equally difficult to implement or equally serious. Further, since most people homebrew most systems to at least some degree, limiting your discussion to RAW is what's pointless since it makes everything entirely academic rather than practically useful. There's no reason to talk about a style of play that no one uses.

It's true that if you take it to an extreme degree then too much fixing has the same problem because no one would bother to play that way, but the notion that you shouldn't acknowledge any fixes at all is complete nonsense.

>> No.39879590

>>39870892
there not technicly a matter of money there a matter of diamonds you can have all the money in the world but if the diamond mines dry up your fucked

>> No.39879989

>>39871676
oh i like this

maybe go on a quest to the outer planes to try and convince him to come back

and even if he refuses to come back you still had a great time reaching him

>> No.39880434

>>39876518
So basically OP's problem doesn;'t exist. If enough money can just buy a res then enough money can just buy an anti-res system. And if you are assassinating people with the money to buy reses will-nilly you should really be in the same league.

>> No.39883484

>>39871213
>Holy Shit this game has some way to bring the dead back to life too!
I have the solution to all of your problems.

It will even fix the fact you never got past third grade and you're monolingual! Do you enjoy verbal times?

>> No.39884323

>>39879590
Hah, time to open a massive can of worms: Economics!

It requires a diamond of a certain value. Go full De Beers and you'll have all the needlessly expensive diamonds you want.

Even better, make diamonds absolute contraband, possession punishable by lots of unpleasant things. The price to get your hands on even a tiny diamond would be astronomical. Diamonds the size of a grain of sand would be adequate for resurrection purposes.

On the other hand, make a setting where diamonds dirt cheap. If no one wants to pay that price for a diamond, you can't cast the spell.

>> No.39884396

>>39870847
>>39870830
>>39870892
Actually... I kinda want to run a campaign with this as a concept.

> Paladin/Cleric of Hieroneous or something commits a murder.
> Cleric is tried and put to death.
> His church resurrects him afterwards. The families of those he's killed are furious and vow revenge.
> This devolves into bloody feud that overtakes the city.

>> No.39884530

>>39879231
You have not made a logical case for your position, only repeated it. There can be no discussion of systems without sticking to the actual systems in the discussion. You have not shown why it would be otherwise, and it's a tall claim that requires tall proof.

You may modify and fix any system. With the right care and enough editing, any system may provide enjoyment for any group. So to talk about "well, you can just change the rules," is so pointless as to be insulting to the community. The only way to actually compare two games is to stick with what the two games literally are.

Let me try to explain it to you in a metaphor. There are two lawn-mowers. A bunch of mechanics get together and start talking about which of the two they would consider for their yards. Some chucklefuck pipes in, "yeah, the engine is not so good, which means it will crap out on a big yard, and the blade doesn't actually cut grass, but you can always just replace them." Then everyone stares at him like he's an idiot, because he fucking is, because the point is the lawn-mowers in front of them and not what they could rig up in their shops.

Just because you are capable of making the changes does not mean the changes are relevant to the discussion.

>> No.39884730

>>39871401

Actually, being destroyed in the IKRPG doesn't make you not incapacitated.

Heal cures the last injury (Like death) on the injury table this encounter.

So you can rez someone, very briefly, after death. If you've got 1/2 classes in the entire game with a 4 cost spell.

>> No.39884793

>>39870854
would be so cool to play a resurrected character that is out to perform mighty deeds and reclaim their title and lands

>> No.39884811

>>39884730

Also on that topic: The IKRPG is a setting where multiple people have come the fuck back from death. It's kinda a plot point.

>> No.39887812

>>39876097
>>39875929

>So what you're saying is that an otherwise great system with one or two broken but easily fixable mechanics has to be considered horrible and broken and something we're never ever allowed to recommend to anyone, ever. Got it.

>> No.39888620

>>39870892
>>39871578
>>39872190
>>39871213
>resurrection
We're talking about the spell where you only have a 5% chance of coming back as the same SPECIES and gender right?

I don't think the king would have the same right to rule if they were now a female goblin.

>> No.39888640

>>39870830
Why would the assassin not also trap his soul? That defends against this.

>> No.39888656

>>39870830

>> No.39888657

>>39888620
that's reincarnation m8

>> No.39888717

I have to wonder if anyone actually plays DnD or any roleplaying game for that matter on this fucking board because anyone who has knows that the DM can say "No resurrection in this campaign" and boom all of the problems are solved. This is as dumb as the fucking "dur a level 5 wizard with levitate can kill the Tarrasque because it can't hit something in the air problem." Any not retarded group or DM would throw this shit right out.

>> No.39888767

>>39888717
What's worse is that people pretend this is specific to D&D. The problem is that these problems are in every rules heavy roleplaying game. The only way you don't have problem mechanics is with stuff like FATE or other rules light systems. It's isn't about D&D, it's about the majority of the hobby.

>> No.39888860

>>39871808
Can I have rules light and unforgiving?

>> No.39888909

>>39888767
>The problem is that these problems are in every rules heavy roleplaying game

Not every rules heavy game has ressurection.
Or a supposedly strongest monster in the book that can be solved with a level 5 character.

>> No.39888975

>>39888909
Yes, there are examples of two ways one game is bad. I can break every rules heavy system in half given half an hour with their books. Please try and suggest one that I can't. It won't be identical examples, but there are certainly others, everything from psychics who can notice a bullet was shot at them before turning around and outrunning it to being able to hit an infinite number of times with a melee weapon in a single turn.

If you can't wrap your head around what my post was trying to say please consider seeing a doctor, you may actually be mentally deficient.

>> No.39889029

These guys have never played these unpopular systems that they love and claim work so well because they looked at the rule books and decided it was better than DnD probably just to parrot all the other cool guys on here. They base their view of DnD on RAW and their other systems on RAW without having any in-game experience.

>> No.39889034

>>39888975
Please give a detailed answer on your method of breaking FATAL.

>> No.39889038

>>39884530
>With the right care and enough editing, any system may provide enjoyment for any group
I... disagree? And I suspect the person you're at odds with also disagrees?

There are some lawnmowers that work well. There are some lawnmowers that are missing blades. There are some lawnmowers whose blades would work with a little elbow grease. There are some lawnmowers that just need refueling, there are some lawnmowers where the engine is shot and probably not worth repairing, there are some lawnmowers where there is no engine no blades and it's basically just a weird plastic box. These are all different situations. It is profoundly disingenuous to lump them all together.

>Just because you are capable of making the changes
There are some changes I'm incapable of making. There are some changes most people would be incapable of making. There are some changes that nobody has demonstrated themselves to be capable of making. "Fixing" resurrection is not one of them.

>> No.39889042

>>39888975
>Yes, there are examples of two ways one game is bad

Only two out of many, yes. Those two are not problems that are present in every rules heavy roleplaying game, as you claimed.

> I can break every rules heavy system in half given half an hour with their books

Congratulations?

>Please try and suggest one that I can't

I'll go ahead and believe your previous claim since it has nothing to do with anything. I don't think anyone believes there are no rules heavy systems that can't be broken.

What we do believe is that there are plenty of rules heavy systems that aren't completely broken out of the box, like DnD is. (3.X in particular.)

>
If you can't wrap your head around what my post was trying to say please consider seeing a doctor, you may actually be mentally deficient.

If you can't avoid being a defensive, aggressive wanker when your favorite system is criticized you may want to find a different board.

>> No.39889055

>>39870830
>Assassin keeps killing the King
>His real plan was to bankrupt the crown
>He was hired by the local Cleric

>> No.39889072

>>39887812
If you aren't eating your steak bloody you are a literal monster.

>> No.39889089

>>39889034
The vampiric factory trick.

>>39889042
>I don't think anyone believes there are no rules heavy systems that can't be broken.
Yes, than find one.

>What we do believe is that there are plenty of rules heavy systems that aren't completely broken out of the box, like DnD is. (3.X in particular.)
Of course, problem being the two problems you gave aren't even problems. Having resurrection isn't really a problem (even the example OP given can be easily fixed internally). As well 3.5 tarrasque does have a ranged option, the 5e one doesn't. You're mixing different versions of DnD and contributing all the problems into one large pile.

>> No.39889098

>>39889089
>The vampiric factory trick.
I said detailed, faggot.

>> No.39889105

>>39889029
You're so fucking stupid that there can be literally nothing said against you. I can only say "read the thread," but you clearly skip posts you don't like the look of, so I'm actually just wasting my time. Aren't I? There's a reason those games persist, and it isn't because literally no one has ever played them, you fecund assbandit.

>> No.39889118

>>39888860

I've not really seen that as an option. Obviously a rules light game can be whatever your DM wants it to be, but most of them by default have death be a thing that happens at a dramatic moment as a satisfying conclusion, rather than having it be that thing that happens when you roll a 1 at the wrong moment and die an ignominious death for no real reason other than that you missed a pretty short jump and fell in lava like a dumb ass.

I suspect the reason for that is because in a rules light game, it's generally not up to the rules to forgive you or not, it's up to the DM... and DMs are a lot easier to punch.

It's easy to say "we're running a dark and serious game where death stalks you at all times and the slightest misstep will spell your dooooom", but when a character who your best friend worked really hard on, and who you have come to love over weeks of play, finds that they have tripped and fallen on their ass at the wrong moment and are now at the business end of a charging demon that is literally made out of lava and hate... it's kinda hard to say "Sorry. He died". But it's a lot easier when you can say "Man, I'd love to help you, but y'see this chart? Says here you took 237 damage. How many hit points do you have left? 3? Man, that sucks, it appears that you have been vaporized. Sorry man, rules are rules..."

>> No.39889123

>>39889105
literally no one plays those games or claims to play them outside of TG you rancid rapscallion.

>> No.39889140

>>39889038
And each of those landmowers are, in their current states, with problems. By the lawnmower itself, and with no assumption of labor, you can compare a lawnmower with blunted blades to a lawnmower that works well and call one a better fucking lawnmower than the other. It does not matter what the end states could be. As they are, there are differences.

It's the same with game systems. The end state, with all the group's eccentricities and house rules and quirks, is totally irrelevant to the discussion about the relative quality of the games. A game can ONLY be judges on what it ACTUALLY has, not what it could have.

>> No.39889142

>>39889098
I don't have the copy pasta or a copy of FATAL to reference to recreate it. It's on the archives in a thread from december a few years ago. I know I saw it around christmas, but am unsure which christmas.

>> No.39889143

>>39889089
>Yes, than find one.
Try reading what you quoted again.

>Of course, problem being the two problems you gave aren't even problems

In your opinion, death being something solved with sufficient gold is not a problem. In mine, it is. This is obviously a problem that's subjective.

>As well 3.5 tarrasque does have a ranged option, the 5e one doesn't. You're mixing different versions of DnD and contributing all the problems into one large pile.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/tarrasque.htm

M8, Fly gives you a 60 foot fly speed and the Tarrasque isn't trained in jump. I'm mixing nothing, the Tarrasque doesn't have a ranged option. Though now that you mention it, the 5e Tarrasque doesn't have the tools to deal with flyers either, which is odd considering that the 4e one did.

>> No.39889153

>>39889123
You're delusional, m8. They didn't generate in a vacuum on this board.

>> No.39889164

>>39889153
It's not his fault. DnD causes brain damage.

>> No.39889205

>>39889164
I never played DnD, it gives a nigga braindamage.

>> No.39889210

>>39889143
>http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/tarrasque.htm
Ah, I was thinking of the pathfinder stat block. Another issue is the fact that it is not by any means the strongest creature, by a fairly wide margin. Possibly the strongest in the book it was originally printed in.

Also, how would the level 5 caster get through its Carapace? Sure, they won't be hit, but only for as long as they have fly.

>> No.39889244

>>39873920
I would take a science fiction angle on it rather than a fantasy one. A fantasy world could accept endless reincarnation and give it some kind of religious explanation, but scientists world go bonkers: What happens when you die? Where do you GO? Why do you sometimes come back as a badger?

(Come to think of it, the remembering-past-lives bit might be distorted by the fact that you sometimes have to cram a thousands of years of experience into a mustelid skull.)

(Also, having children would be the weirdest thing ever. You wouldn't be giving birth to any sort of blank slate, you'd be giving birth to god-only-knows-who: "Ah, yes, the principal thought we should know-- it appears that our daughter has the memories of Adolf Hitler.")

Robert Sheckley wrote a novel, "Immortality, Inc." which was founded on the scientific confirmation that an afterlife existed, at least for some people, these being the source of "supernatural" phenomena like ghosts. The technology to guarantee that someone would experience life after death was swiftly developed, and the book explored the social ramifications of the capacity to buy yourself a spot in the afterlife.

>> No.39889247

>>39876558
Except it's a widely used and accepted part of the setting. When you say "Let's play DnD," people have certain expectations based on their own knowledge and experience of the setting and system. Yes, you can houserule out things you don't like, but it's much easier to just play a system that isn't a fucking trainwreck to begin with.

>> No.39889263

>>39872088
>kingdom has reincarnated the same king for 1,000s of years
>they have had men, women, slaves, fish, and even rocks sit the throne
>the king as cole was thought to be one of his best lives for his ground breaking work in negotiations.

>> No.39889287

>>39889210
>Another issue is the fact that it is not by any means the strongest creature, by a fairly wide margin. Possibly the strongest in the book it was originally printed in.

I should have said 'marketed as the strongest creature', that was my mistake. 3.5 certainly had stronger creatures, such as the beholder mage.

>Also, how would the level 5 caster get through its Carapace? Sure, they won't be hit, but only for as long as they have fly.

Acid Splash. A few wands of Acid Splash, to be precise. Ignores SR, isn't a ray, magic missle, line, or cone.

Of course, this wouldn't kill it, because Regeneration 40, but it would have no way of hurting the wizard.

The various Orbs of X spells work the same way, if I remember correctly, but it's been a long fucking time since I played a wizard, so I could be wrong.

>> No.39889295

>>39871213
Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay.
Shadowrun.
Iron Kingdoms.
Paranoia.

Actually, I have a harder time thinking of systems outside of DnD that DO make use of resurrection, or have it as anything more than some huge and rare event that happens once a millennia instead of being, y'know, "Aw shit he died again, someone go get the diamonds."

>> No.39889314

>>39889263

Yeah, but we all know that most of the real work was done by the fiddlers three while he was busy with his pipe and his bowl, getting high as fuck.

>> No.39889318

>>39889287
>Of course, this wouldn't kill it, because Regeneration 40, but it would have no way of hurting the wizard.
But the wizard runs out of fly, falls, and gets killed.

>The various Orbs of X spells work the same way, if I remember correctly, but it's been a long fucking time since I played a wizard, so I could be wrong.
Same for 3.5. Level 5 it would be essentially impossible because you would at minimum have to be doing 40 per round, and even if the tarrasque can't hit back it can mostly just wait for the flying to run out unless you're doing more than 40.

>> No.39889323

>>39889210
>Possibly the strongest in the book it was originally printed in.

The Tarrasque is CR 20. The highest CR creature in the MMI is a Gold Dragon of the highest age category (Great Wyrm), with a CR of 26.

>> No.39889333

>>39889295

Excuse me but isn't paranoia the game that kills you over and over in hilarious ways until you run out of extra lives?

Clones are just Sci-fi for resurrection.

>> No.39889352

>>39871659
>>39871735

WHFRP 2e is an awesome alternative. Good solid setting (or used to be, currently in the process of getting fistfucked, hence 2e) and simple percentile mechanics. Combat is harsh as fuck, but fate pints gives you a little leeway in terms of back luck.

Shadowrun works well for taking your fantasy and plopping it right the fuck into the middle of cyberpunk.

>> No.39889380

>>39889318
>>Of course, this wouldn't kill it, because Regeneration 40, but it would have no way of hurting the wizard.
>But the wizard runs out of fly, falls, and gets killed.

Scrolls of Fly.
Flies up a cliff or mountain it can't reach. He's got 30 rounds per Fly cast and at least 2 spell slots worth of Fly if he's got any reasonable intelligence.

>Same for 3.5. Level 5 it would be essentially impossible because you would at minimum have to be doing 40 per round, and even if the tarrasque can't hit back it can mostly just wait for the flying to run out unless you're doing more than 40.

Only possible if you had a group of wizards, yeah. A level 5 wizard couldn't kill the tarrasque, but the tarrasque couldn't do anything unless they were on a flat field that stretched every for 60 rounds worth of flight at 60 feet per turn

>> No.39889382

>>39871735
Riddle of Steel. World of fucking Darkness, even. There are a fuckton of systems out there beyond shitty fucking DnD if you take a half second to LOOK.

>> No.39889404

>>39889323
>>39889210

The Tarrasque isn't really anything special. It's pretty much the epic level equivalent of a troll: not especially dangerous but super annoying to kill for keeps.

Somehow, it has become the go-to "fuck you the DM is tired of this campaign" monster to jokingly threaten the players with even though it's not that great. It's the Frieza of DnD monsters.

>> No.39889419

>>39889380
Sorry, miscalculated, 50 rounds per Fly cast. Not 30.

>> No.39889427

>>39889380
How do they afford all those fly scrolls? I still doubt it would give enough time. You'd need enough wizards to do more than 40 damage per round and a great many fly scrolls.

Also, it'd have to be a high cliff, the tarrasque has a 70 foot vertical reach (50 tall and 20 reach).

>> No.39889494

>>39889427
>How do they afford all those fly scrolls?

Making a scroll of Fly, using the feat they get for free, costs 375 gp per scroll, which is chump change at level 5.

>Also, it'd have to be a high cliff

Or the ocean. Or over a wide canyon. Or pretty much any terrain that involves the land not being level.

The chances of there being nothing like that given 50 rounds of flight per cast of Fly in the surrounding area are pretty low unless the level 5 PC encounters the Tarrasque in a desert or a tundra.

>> No.39889505

>>39878003

So basically, it's a good, well-rounded system that isn't built for a style of play better suited for video games?

>> No.39889569

>>39889287
>>39889318
>>39889380

Regeneration
"Creatures with this extraordinary ability recover from wounds quickly and can even regrow or reattach severed body parts. Damage dealt to the creature is treated as nonlethal damage, and the creature automatically cures itself of nonlethal damage at a fixed rate per round, as given in the creature’s entry.

Certain attack forms, typically fire and acid, deal damage to the creature normally; that sort of damage doesn’t convert to nonlethal damage and so doesn’t go away. The creature’s description includes the details. A regenerating creature that has been rendered unconscious through nonlethal damage can be killed with a coup de grace. The attack cannot be of a type that automatically converts to nonlethal damage."

Interestingly enough, Acid Splash deals acid damage and therefore would be considered lethal damage to the Tarrasque.

>> No.39889593

>>39889569
There you go, a cabal of wizards with a shit ton of fly scrolls could down a tarrasque.

>> No.39889602

>>39889123
Yes, I do not play WHFRP or Shadowrun. Everyone here just plays DnD because we all know it's the best.


Shhhh. Shhhh. Dream now.

>> No.39889612

>>39889569
I'm pretty sure "typically" doesn't mean "anytime there's not statement to the contrary"

>> No.39889648

>>39889569
The tarrasque's regeneration isn't bypassed by anything. It's special.

>> No.39889667

>>39889612
>>39889648
"No form of attack deals lethal damage to the tarrasque" You guys are correct, I'm a bit too tired to be making conjecture.

>> No.39889683

>>39889380
You just summon an allip mane. That's the whole "level 5 wizard beats local tarrasque" thing.

>> No.39889690

>>39889569

>>39889287 here
You're misreading that, friend.
It says 'typically' fire and acid. The Tarrasque's entry specifically states that nothing does lethal damage to it. So the wizards couldn't kill it, but they could bypass its carapace and they could avoid being hurt by it.

>> No.39889696

>>39889140

The thing is, imagine you're comparing two lawnmowers. One has blunted blades that can't cut for shit, the other has shitty inspection sticker placement over an external exhaust that prevents the thing from starting up.

To fix the first problem, you have to sharpen the blades, which takes some time because you have to remove them and then reinstall them. To fix the second problem, you take five seconds to rip the stupid sticker off and you're good to go.

Strictly speaking, the first lawnmower is in "better shape" to start with, as it will at least start up, blunted blades or no. However, after a five second fix, the second lawnmower is running AND has sharp blades.

You HAVE to consider how easy it is to fix a problem as well as the severity. A critical problem that is a five second fix is not as bad as a less critical problem that takes hour and hours to fix. You DO have to consider "what can be," or you're a complete moron.

>> No.39889700

>>39870847
In D&D there are ways to make someone stay dead, if you're going to assassinate a king, can't see why would wouldn't go the whole make and make sure he stays dead.

>> No.39889736

>>39889123
>> this amount of denial

do you really think that all those gurps suplements are paid by dreams and people that just have a hateboner for D&D?

>> No.39889739

>>39889352
Shadowrun is fucking horrible.

>> No.39889752

>>39889333
>Clones are just Sci-fi for resurrection.

You get six. Generally speaking, it's a miracle if you haven't gone through them all by the end of the session. They clones are also...less than perfect. The GM is encouraged to make each clone less and less capable, and you weren't that capable to begin with.

So yeah, not the same as "perfect unlimited resurrection" if you have the dosh.

>> No.39889755

>>39873055
>Girl Genius
Oh, oxymorons, i get it!

>> No.39889778

>>39878553
>>39878666
its a slipery slope because the first anon said "things need to be discussed in base of the same parameters to know the worth of the game out of the box" and you went "OH SO YOU SAY THAT THEY ARE HORRIBLE AND BROKEN AND YOU CANT RECOMEND IT?" its the basic fucking definition.

>> No.39889787

>>39889739
Post 3rd? I'll drink to that. Then again, that's kind of because of what's happening to cyberpunk these days.

3rd had shitty mechanics for matrix and rigging, but The magic and combat systems were fun as fuck, and the setting was at its peak.

>> No.39889844

>>39889752

If you're allowed to have perfect unlimited resurrection in DnD, your DM is doing it wrong. We generally start attracting inevitables after way less than 6 deaths.

>> No.39889850

>>39889739
when I dont agree, it is a prett bad option to recomend someone that wants fantasy, hell is almost a meme how some players dont get the game because they only play D&D and attack random guards and think that they can take down dragons, its one of the most "His own thing" rpgs around.

>> No.39889925

Steal Mogworld's setting.
>Everybody respawns at the last church they visited.
>No death is permanent.
>Nobody ages.
>Nobody is born.
>tfw you're an NPC in an MMO

>> No.39889945

The better question is who the hell has the resources to assassinate a King of notable station in D&D. I mean unless that court wizard he hired was a complete sham, it would take one hard-core organization to pop the inbred bastard.

Especially if he's a witch king himself.

>> No.39889981

>>39870892
>Full Retard Mode: Playing in a world where resurrections not only exist but are simply a matter of money

No, anon, you are the retard.

>> No.39890016

>>39888717
>DM can say "No resurrection in this campaign" and boom all of the problems are solved.

Primarily, the problem of people playing with that DM. "No resurrection" is one of the clearest red flags for any self-respecting DnD player.

>> No.39890135

>>39889981
EP doesn't have resurrection. Backuping your mind in a different body(with possibility of losing memories) isn't the same as returning your body to life without any consequences.

>> No.39890165

>>39890135
Oh, and in EP theres also cheap backuping. Sure, you get a shitty clunky robot body and stuck in indenture, but hey, youre alive!

>> No.39890189

>>39889981
Yeah, EP is shit.

>> No.39890261

>>39888717
Don't you have to make a wish or miracle spell to kill the Tarrasque after you manage to overkill it?

>> No.39890327

>>39873055

>Folio

>> No.39890392

>>39871735
Try Runequest if you want fantasy.

Glorantha might not be everyone's favourite setting but the current edition has rules for "generic fantasy" as well.

The Warhammer 40k rpgs are quite good as well and the different games work quite well at giving several unique ways to play in the same setting. Traveller and 2300AD are good scifi rpgs as well.

There are a lot of good rpgs and it's just that

a) "Have you tried not playing DnD is a meme so people spam it as such
b) People have different tastes. I would suggest trying Twilight 2013 as a game but I know that a lot of people hate the combat for being too complicated and don't like how hard it is to learn skills (and the fact that your character is likely to have his equipment degrade as the game goes on. Even his skills and abilities can suffer as there is no magical healing so being injured can be devastating.) So even though each of us can suggest several rpgs worth trying it is hard to know what some particular anon would like. After all, all we know is that they have a problem with some aspect of DnD.

>> No.39890437

>>39889787
I did indeed mean post third, but kind of assumed people here had only played 4th and 5th.

>> No.39890450

>>39888860
Traveller

>> No.39890505

>>39871213
Fortunately in this game you've got a seven day time limit and it's an incredibly dangerous magical ritual with a good chance of killing the participants! In fact historically success REQUIRED killing at least one participant until someone figured out a way to cheat.

Though if you're lucky and they're sufficiently badass they might just escape from the underworld, but that's something like, a couple dozen people have done EVER.

>> No.39890566

>>39870830
>See: Girl Genius.
In a world where resurrection is possible, the rules of nobility become *very* clear with regards to only maintaining your title during your *first* life. As such, if the Storm King's vitals all come to a crashing halt because of an assassin's poison making him go into technicolor meltdown, his title would pass to the next in succession... Which might start a war on it's own, because murdering relatives is what that family does.

>> No.39890616

>>39890566
That's a dumb rule, in general when someone comes back to life and wants their title back the various powers that be PROBABLY are going to back them unless they're a massive asshole because they've already proven their skill unlike this new guy. And of course if they ARE a massive asshole, people probably won't resurrect them in the first place.

There are probably kings with lands totally forgotten by history still INSISTING on hanging out in heaven's waiting room because they're ABSOLUTELY SURE their faithful subjects are right about to resurrect them.

>> No.39890808

>The king has been assassinated!
>So now the crown is out some gold for a rez spell
> But resurrection takes time. The High Priest must be summoned, the spell prepared, the spell components gathered.
> So in fact the king is out of commission for several hours. Maybe as much as a day. Maybe longer, if the High Priest is away on business.
>Meanwhile, the guards are hunting the assassin.
>The magical wards around the throne room, the vault and the royal archives have failed without the mortal king to anchor them.
>The servants are being interrogated.
>The guard are being yelled at.
>The slums are being searched.
>Fingers are being pointed.
>Such times are when a man of resource and intelligence can step up and prove his worth to the crown.
>Because for just a little while, what reigns this kingdom is no mortal man, but chaos.
>And chaos... well.
>You know the rest.

>> No.39891041

>>39890808

>The king has been assassinated!
>So now the crown is out some gold for a rez spell
>But the coffers are empty!
>The tax collectors are corrupt
>Our armies are large and cumbersome
>Our roads are expensive
>Our war in the far East has drained our funds dry
>The crown is penniless: we cannot afford the resurrection.
>And the prince regent is just a little boy.
>The assassin's timing was perfect.

>> No.39891187

>>39871213
shadowrun
iron kingdoms
anima

hunter the vigil has it but it makes you insane

>> No.39892727

>>39878003
Well that's exactly why I recommend it. 3.5 isn't just supposed to be for murderhoboing, and for clarities sake I'll only be discussing 3.5 because I don't have enough experience with earlier editions to be flapping my gums.

3.5 TRIES to make out-of-combat matter. It gives you diplomacy, intimidate, knowledge, etc, as skills, but integrates them so poorly as to make them both weak, too simple, and unfulfilling to specialize in. I absolutely could show up to a game with the mistaken assumption that I have made a useful character who fills niches the party needs with my Skill Focus: Diplomacy and general skill-monkeyness.

You've still got the Rogues setup, where he blows everloving chunks in an actual fight, sneak attack or no, but makes up for it by having enough ~skill points~ to be useful out of combat and in sneaking around (We know this to not be true).

That's why I say Fantasycraft does 3.5 better. Because 3.5 is half-heartedly trying to pretend that it makes out of combat matter mechanically, while Fantasycraft just up and says "Alright, here's the Courtier. He's really, really good at diplomacy, socializing, maintaining contacts, and manipulating money. He will be one of the most useful members of your team. Here's the Explorer. He's good at knowing stuff! YOU WILL LOVE HIM FOR THAT. Here's the Soldier. He's the best at fighting. He is the actual most terrifying member of your team. He probably collects dragon vertebrae to turn into cock-rings." and then actually backs it up.

>> No.39893713

>>39890327
>>39873443
>>39873113

It's not THAT bad.

>> No.39894340

>>39870830
Reclassify res spells as only working on bodies that still contain their souls, and that souls leave the body after 1 standard hour.

This provides necromancers a working time frame and clerics a degree of pressure to be present more. Assassins can be effective via murdering someone and making sure they're not found out until much later.

Last but not least this solves the age old question of "enter a tomb full of zombies, why not just cast rez on the fallen heroes?" problem we see so often. The only legitimate response to magical flesh robot zombies should be "kill" and not "wallow in this maze of moral relativism because destroying the bones of a hero is objectively evil".

>> No.39895028

>>39889844


And how many times do you expect players to die every session?

Clones aren't resurrection in Paranoia. They're hitpoints.

>> No.39895049

>>39890437
Reasonable assumption, we're a dying breed. Though the success of the old-school flavor in Shadowrun Returns does give me hope.

>> No.39895090

>>39891187

I'd include any setting where resurrection exists but is incredibly rare (like, once in a 1000 years kind of rare) and/or is associated with such hideous drawbacks that PCs would rather reroll than subject themselves to it.

>> No.39895211

>entire thread
>no one mentions that modern D&D ressurection spells don't work on those of "weak spirit" (or some other similar reason) which essentially means whoever the DM doesn't want them to work on, thus neatly solving the problem
>also not everyone even wants to be ressurrected and they can just say no.

it's like even though you guys only play D&D you don't actually play D&D

>> No.39895330

>>39889602

>> No.39895557

>>39871310
>All this mad

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