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[ERROR] No.39554929 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Pathfinder Unchained & Heroes of the Wild Pastebin: http://pastebin.com/PyGqDKa6
>Variant Multiclassing requires giving up half your feats (3rd, 7th, 11th, 15th and 19th level feats).

We're doing good, gentlemen. Let's continue!

A couple threads back, a guy claimed he though the Zealot from Path of War: Expanded is going to be the "sleeper OP" class of the book. What do you guys think?
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/1AbNq6NDkQ84JoacxMb-CxbQKwuXVWTEBpX2cIcNB7iA/edit

>> No.39555075

Threadly reminder that Swashbuckler is the best class in Pathfinder

>> No.39555084

What are some good VMC for Rogue?

Witch is useless as hell since you are stuck at using Hex as level 1 Witch until level 15 or something. Slumber for 1 round is so OP loled.

Druid might be cool, but you get Wild Shape pretty late. Being a tiny animal with all dem skills might be hilarious though.

Alchemist is good but you are stuck with Underground Chemist.

>> No.39555128

>>39555075
Why don't you post the copypasta with it, guy?

>>39555084
Barbarian. If you're going to be a shitty class, might as well at least give it some fighting capability.

>> No.39555183

>>39555128
> Rage
> Can't use any of the Unlock skill
Why would you do that?

>> No.39555233

>>39555183
You are aware you don't always need to be raging, right?

How the fuck often are you picking locks in combat?

Rather, how often do you think you're being useful as a Rogue in combat normally?

>> No.39555242

>>39554929
Any idea on how Horticulturist stack with Preservationist?

I think whoever wrote the archetype forgot that preservationist exist because both of them seems to stack..

>> No.39555281

>>39555233
We don't even know what unlock Disable Device do yet. Maybe it's stupid stuff like disarm. Maybe it's useful stuff like dispel magical effect on item.

Skill Unlock are made for you to use that specific skill in combat though (Disguise as standard action for example).

>> No.39555328

>>39555281
I can assure you that it'll be shit.

EVEN IF it allows you to disarm enemies or whatever, it'll still be strictly worse than just murdering them outright.

>> No.39555407

You have 10000 days to come up with a better class than spell sage wizard

>> No.39555461

>>39555407
Razmiran Priest Sorcerer. You doesn't take 8 full-round to cast level 8 Divine spell and you can also cast spell from Paladin, Inquisitor, Shaman list.

>> No.39555471

>>39555407
There are plenty of better classes than any wizard.

Better using the metric of "well-designed" and not "lol magic".

>> No.39555488

>>39555328
> New Barbarian
> With Rogue BAB and stats
> Murdering anyone
Good joke anon. Maybe if they allows you to use Urban Barbarian Rage or something.

>> No.39555556

>>39555084
Wizard VMC is quite good, ironically. 3rd level gives you a familiar, which can be turned into a feint machine with the Figment and Sage archetypes. 7th level gives you school powers: Air school gives at-will feather fall and levitate, upgrading to at-will fly at 10th; Void school grants a slower-scaling Superstition and a better-scaling Evil Eye hex. At 11th you get a cantrip, which is dumb shit, but as a rogue you can at least use the rays for touch-attack snipes.

>> No.39555596

>>39554929
>mutliclassing penalties

That's fucking gay and stupid.
If anything there should be an exp penalty for going straight caster.

>> No.39555628

>>39555556
Interesting. Cantrip things is sad though, especially since the new Minor Magic is already a cantrip in itself.

>> No.39555729

Rogue's Crippling Strike seems pretty good. Why no one build a Sniper with sniper's google shooting tons of arrow and paralyzing people from afar?

Do all Rogue died before they reach that level or something?

>> No.39555757

Is there a list anywhere where I can read up on what the "enemies of the faith" depending on what Inquisitor you have rolled up.

Also, any tips on how to roleplay an Inquisitor?

>> No.39555799

>>39555757
Be as grimderp as humanly possible.

>> No.39555849

>>39555729
It's really not. Even disregarding that the Ninja can do the same thing EIGHT levels earlier with Pressure Points. You have to be sneak attacking to deal Str damage. To deal 10 Str damage, enough to take out a fucking commoner, you'd need to land five sneak attacks. If you've landed five sneak attacks, the enemy should be fucking dead, and if it isn't, it can probably get by with the piddly -5 attack penalty you've dealt.

>> No.39555994

>>39555849
Back to Sap Master Harrow Strike...

>> No.39556123

What is a good 1-shotted adventure for a new DM and players?

Should I tried picking something from PFS scenario?

>> No.39556189

>>39555849
Pressure Points does not stack. Crippling Strike does.

It's a really good ability to DEBUFF. A Rogue doesn't have too much in the way of AC so this can compensate.

I can build you a Rogue that Sneaks Attacks while full attacking every round while maintaining good defense... it's even easier to make with the Unchained Rogue, but it works with the normal one too.

>> No.39556262

>>39555994

>sap master
>harrow strike
>entanglement of blades

PROBLEM?

>> No.39556271

>>39555799
Surely there's another way that doesn't immediately result in grimderp, right? Also is there a list of what the "enemies of the faith" are for each deity?

>> No.39556274

>>39556189
I was thinking about Full-attacking from 1000 feet away via Sniper archetype.

But I welcomes any Rogue build! Please post!

>> No.39556313

>>39556262
Oh man.. That's just mean.

>> No.39556322

>>39556189
>Pressure Points does not stack
That is factually incorrect.

>It's a really good ability to DEBUFF.
It really isn't. 2 Str damage is -1 to attack and -1 to damage. That's worse than the sickened condition on the first hit, and not better until you've hit three times, at which point you should've either killed the thing or set it up for the rest of your party to do so. The 'debuff' isn't benefiting anyone unless they're being attacked. Dexterity damage through Pressure Points can at least lower the enemy's AC, making further attacks more likely to hit.

>> No.39556335

>>39555757
It really depends. It's all about your deity and how you wanna play it.

Can you tell us who you are worshipping?

>> No.39556378

>>39556322
I'd never use any of the DC abilities (such as the sickened one you mention) because I usually go with low INT, Rogues don't need any more than 10. Besides, even if I went with like 18 INT, the DC would still be too low since it targets Fort. You need Studied Target to land one of those things.

Shrug, if you don't like it though, that's your experience. I do need to reread Pressure Points because I believe I missed something, I did believe it stacked.

>> No.39556398

>>39556274
Well, the Unchained Rogue might be what you are looking for, it has some cool abilities to snipe and get back into cover.

>> No.39556477

>>39556335
Kurgess

>> No.39556478

Talking about Rogue. Are there any feats or Rogue talent that let you full-attack during surprise round?

>> No.39556503

>>39556378
>DC abilities
>Studied Target
What are you even on about? The sickened condition was only referenced because it's one of the most basic debuff conditions out there. You can get a no-save 3-round sicken as a splash weapon for 50 gp. The investigator (AKA Actually Good Rogue) can apply sickened with no save every time they hit something starting at 7th level. As for Studied Target, that's a slayer ability.

>> No.39556826

Hi, /tg/. I've got a question for a Pathfinder campaign I'm planning on running over the next few months.

I'm running the Paizo module Tears at Bitter Manor, and I'm wondering what I should have on my "never allowed ever" list. Right now, that list contains:

Gestalt
Mythic
Leadership
Sacred Geometry
Races over 17 RP

What else should I have on here?

>> No.39557041

>>39556826
Single classed Fighter.

>> No.39557088

>>39556826
Charmed Life

>> No.39557140

>>39557088

Whew

>> No.39557166

>>39556826

Dazing Spell, or "at higher levels I'll just stunlock boss monsters to death."

>> No.39557261

>>39557166
and then everyone play Slayer to Daze lock boss with Dirty Trick.

>> No.39557330

Question: does the Increased Size astral suit customization count for increased size or for increased damage step?
>Increased Size
>The astral suit grows in size and the aegis and all of his equipment is treated as one size category larger as if affected by expansion. The aegis must be at least 9th level to select this customization.

>> No.39557334

In the last thread someone mentioned a Sacred Necromancer from a 3PP. I tried looking for it on the SRD but I must be blind or something.

Does anyone have a link for it?

>> No.39557384

>>39557330
Increased size. It's effectively just having unaugmented Expansion cast on you at all times when you're wearing your astral suit.

>> No.39557598

Is a life leech sadist soulthief vitalist the best character idea?

>> No.39557653

>>39557598
It's a legit option that lets you play group healer without focusing only on healing.

>> No.39557801

>>39556477
well, Urgathoa, Droskar, Ghlaunder, Norgorber, and Zyphus all have focuses opposed in some way to your deity.

But as to >>39556271 anyone and everyone actively working against your god's aims are his enemies. It's as simple as that.

>> No.39557887

>>39555556
Can you choose True name as your Arcane Discovery?

Also what happen if you go Vivisectionist VMC Rogue? 14d6 Sneak Attack??

>> No.39557910

>>39557261
At least the slayer needs to hit and set up SAs consistently to do that, not just target the monster's weakest save.

>> No.39557976

Question: Does crafting an item reduce the special material costs too? Also, how efficient is the Cornugon Smash+Intimidating Prowess combination on a high STR high CHA character?

>> No.39558010

>>39557976
>how efficient is the Cornugon Smash+Intimidating Prowess combination on a high STR high CHA character?

Most pally builds I see use this. It is a solid combo.

Special materials add to the cost but this fixes crafting so you are not spending 3 weeks making a crowbar.

>> No.39558059

>>39557653
>>39557598
What makes it so cool/so good?

>> No.39558103

>>39558010
Then, related: How good is a +18 Intimidate modifier at level 7? (7 levels+3class skill+5 STR+3 CHA)

>> No.39558193

What makes something "cheese" in a game like Pathfinder? Do you and/or the rest of your gaming group frown on things like rage cycling as a Barbarian or getting a full attack + one extra attack + one touch spell as a Magus using both Spellstrike and Spell Combat? These sorts of things are entirely legal by the rules, but regarded by some groups as "cheesy" and thus often either heavily discouraged our banned outright.

>> No.39558213

>>39558193
>What makes something "cheese" in a game like Pathfinder?

The group/the GM doesn't like it or thinks its too powerful.

>> No.39558245

>>39558193
>>39558213
Pretty much anything group dont like. Hell my group think Gunslinger is a cheese

>> No.39558546

Tell me your flavor of each of the dirty trick.
Headbutt for Daze? Sand throw for blind? Nuttkick for sicken?

>> No.39558555

How can a party stop a prisoner sorcerer from using magic.

>> No.39558583

>>39558555

Ballgag, blindfold and metal gauntlets.

>> No.39558600

>>39558583

>tfw armoring prisoners to keep you safe from them

>> No.39558624

>>39558600

Fine...ballgag and manacles should be about all that's necessary.

I mean, that's what every bard should have in their pack, right?

>> No.39558636

>>39558193
>ull attack + one extra attack + one touch spell as a Magus using both Spellstrike and Spell Combat?
So...anyone playing a magus?

>> No.39558638

>>39558624

no, fuck that noise

cold iron maidens for spellcasters

>> No.39558659

>>39558636
its really pathetic. There are easier ways to get one extra attack on a full attack, and he doesn't get pounce and he can't use it at range so you have the "pls stand stll pls thx" problem.

>> No.39558678

>>39558555
A guillotine.

>> No.39558748

>>39558678
This is what I thought that my party would do, but for some reason the murderhobos decided to take a prisoner for a change. These guys are so unprepared for taking captives.

>> No.39558759

Still trying to make a Monster Hunter Gunlance guy here.

Should I go with Culverin and use Rough and Ready trait (Gunman) to make melee attack with it?

>> No.39558847

>>39556378
>Rogues dont need Int
Skill Mastery is one of the few really good features a rogue gets.

>> No.39558875

>>39558847
and it got upgrade in Unchained, any skilled you unlock is automatically added into Skill Mastery.

>> No.39558917

>>39558847
I enjoy giving my rogue Master Craftsman Feats and Skill Mastery, and then making magic items better than casters can. I'm looking forward to seeing what I can do with Unchained.

>> No.39558948

>>39558659
Someone's never played a magus. Bladed dash both allows them to move up 30 feet and still full attack. It even gives them an extra attack. The only thing it isn't is another shocking grasp on top of all that.

>> No.39558966

>>39558917
You do realize that under normal circumstances, there's nothing stopping you from taking 10 while crafting magic items, right? The wizard will still be a better crafter than you for half the investment.

>> No.39558999

>>39558948
so 30 feet pounce for burning a 2th level spell? Yea...not to impressed. You are also MAD as fuck if you actually want to do damage. if you want to deal hp damage there are much better ways to do it.

>> No.39559029

>>39558999
There is a reason why most magus is going for Dervish Dance or Slashing Grace build.

They are not the best class in the game but they do fight better than Fighter.

>> No.39559162

>>39558999
>MAD as fuck
>Two stats is MAD
Spells make up for defenses, mobility, and lack of other stats just fine. Some don't even need to buy armor and weapons unless they feel like it. All you need is strength and intelligence.

>> No.39559229

>>39559162
Technically 2 stats are MAD anon. Anything that isn't Single is Multi.

>> No.39559233

>>39559162
>front-liner with light armor until mid-levels
>not needing con and dex

wat

>> No.39559238

>>39558966
No I wasn't, though a wizard who buys skill focus is wasting feats, while it's always useful for rogues. Taking Profession: Stage Magician, Master Craftsman (Stage Magician), and Skill Focus (Stage Magician) and adding Skill Mastery (Stage Magician), and Prodigy (Stage Magician+Perform Acting) doesn't hurt a rogue in any way - it makes him better at tricking people into thinking he's a magician.

That only gets better with some of the VMC things.

>> No.39559273

>>39559229
2 stats isn't "MAD as fuck". Monks and most martials are MAD as fuck.

>>39559233
What are Shield Spell, Mage armor (better than any light armor), Blur, Displacement, Cat's Grace, and Bear's Endurance.

Magus gets all the wizard's protective spells. Or are you saying casters are easily hit? Because that's not what /tg/ has been saying for years.

>> No.39559287

>>39559238
> Taking Profession in anything other than Courtesan
> Not crafting magic items from your natural sluttiness

>> No.39559299

>>39559273
Casters generally aren't in melee, they have more spellslots than magus and it's STILL generally a good idea for them to get good con and decent dex if they can afford to.

>> No.39559300

>>39559287
No no, that's what the Egoist Psychic is for.

>> No.39559327

>>39557801
I ended up making him a Half-Orc Warpriest with the Sacred Fist archetype instead. It's much more fitting to Kurgess' lore than to have an Inquisitor

>> No.39559352

>>39559299
It's a good idea for any class. Casters, including magus can still work around it.

Compared to monk, any martial outside paladin, or rogue a magus is pretty self sufficient on two stats, while they all need three or more just to survive.

>> No.39559366

>>39559273
>Mage armor
>Magus gets all the wizard's protective spells.
Check magus spell list, you'd be surprised.

>> No.39559380

>>39559366

>Mage armor
>+4 to AC
>Chain shirt
>+4 to AC

they don't even need it

>> No.39559398

So.. Rough and Ready with Professional [Soldier] thing actually work?

I can hit people in melee with Bow / Crossbow with no penalty?

>> No.39559406

>>39559366
What is Spell Blending or Use Magic Device for 200, Jack.

>> No.39559498

>>39559406
Resources better spent elsewhere.

>> No.39559791

> Internal Chemist
> Monk VMC

This'll probably be awful but I really want to make this now.

>> No.39559800

>>39559791

Any idea what levels monk VMC gives its shit?

>> No.39559810

Can I use Vital Strike on range weapon?

>> No.39559850

>>39559810
Yes. Question is, why is your ranged weapon not a longbow with manyshot and rapid shot.

>> No.39559856

>>39559800
Not a clue, sorry. I imagine unarmed strike and the scaling damage that comes with it will be the first on the list though, which is what I'm mostly doing this for.

Mutagen + TWF + Unarmed Strike = Profit?

>> No.39559868

>>39559850
Because sometimes more damage from a single shot>multiple shots at penalties.

Sometimes both can be good.

>> No.39560040

>>39559850
Still trying to use Culverin.

>> No.39560088

>>39560040
Planning to go Musket Master/Siege Gunner Gunslinger.

>> No.39560115

Twilight Arcanist. Good class or best class?
You're basically the soul reaver.

>> No.39560149

>>39560115
Arcanist (Occultist) > Arcanist (Twilight Sage)

>> No.39560192

>>39560149

Why is Occultist like a better summoner?

>Paizo in charge of balance
>Ever

>> No.39560293

>>39560192
>tfw Drow Arcanist (Occultist/VMC Summoner) with Blasphemous Covenant

>> No.39560459

>>39560088
>>39560040
I'm new to firearm rule. Can anyone confirmed if I have the right idea?

Culverin can only fire scatter shot.
Culverin is 30' cone AoE (60' cone wih Siege Gunner).
No Vital Strike or Deadly Aim while using Culverin.
Concealment doesn't matter because AoE.
Misfire only happen if all my shot is misfire.

>> No.39560516

>>39560459

Are you talking about the firearm culverin or siege weapon culverin?

>> No.39560517

Who's better one man army, cleric, druid or shaman?

>> No.39560590

>>39556826
Summoners

>> No.39560661

>>39560517

A swashbuckler

>> No.39561104

>>39557887

Unlike with the Oracle, where we know certain Revelations are off the list, we don't know about any limitations with the Wizard VMC.

So it seems that fighters with an Outsider buddy are in. Since you get it at 19th, you can actually bind a 18hd outsider to yourself -- which includes virtually all Heralds of Golarion's various gods. Make Basileus your bitch! (Or, for less hilarious results but more Wishes than you can shake a stick at, an Efreet).

>> No.39561457

Am I the only one hoping that the archetypes which poach mechanics from the Kineticist get put on the Ninja? Fucking Ninja has nothing in the way of Archetypes. At least give them some love. Especially now that Rogue got Unchained.

>> No.39561527

>>39561457
...you are aware that the Ninja is a pretty much a Rogue archetype, right?

>> No.39561634

>>39561457
>>39561527
What is the difference between variant class and archetype?

>> No.39561639

>>39560516
firearm culverin. I didn't knew that there actually a siege weapon version.

>> No.39561654

>>39561634
Very little. If the variant class doesn't replace shit you need to take an archetype, you can take an archetype.

>> No.39561660

>>39561634
Alternate class change more stuff.

>> No.39561873

Can a small character fly using create water as a jet propulsion?

How do I calculate acceleration and Force of create water?

>> No.39561924

>>39560192

>Why is the Arcanist like a better [insert arcane spellcasting class here]?

The Arcanist, or the Arcanest as it was known in its rough draft, was a joke class that got mixed in with the actual hybrid classes, replacing the full-class Arcane Archer replacement that was supposed to be in the ACG. Nobody's had the guts to fess up to Bulmahn that it was never supposed to be a real class after he liked it so much.

>> No.39561964

I keep running more and more to people who just houserule DnD 5th ed stuff into Pathfinder

Paizo should really take note

>> No.39562008

>>39561964
Why don't they just play 5e though

>> No.39562010

>>39561527
It only qualifies for 8 archetypes from the Rogue. And last I heard there was an errata on alternate classes and archetypes so its possible the overlap doesn't work that way anymore.

Either way, assuming overlap works, it would still be nice to get some love considering you aren't getting the Unchained treatment.

>> No.39562040

>>39562008
Because everyone loves Paizo's APs
I love Paizo's AP
APs are the only reason we play Pathfinder

>> No.39562080

>>39559238
Well, there is one thing you're forgetting about. Here's the text for Master Craftsman:

Choose one Craft or Profession skill in which you possess at least 5 ranks. You receive a +2 bonus on your chosen Craft or Profession skill. Ranks in your chosen skill count as your caster level for the purposes of qualifying for the Craft Magic Arms and Armor and Craft Wondrous Item feats. You can create magic items using these feats, substituting your ranks in the chosen skill for your total caster level. You must use the chosen skill for the check to create the item. The DC to create the item still increases for any necessary spell requirements (see the magic item creation rules in Magic Items). You cannot use this feat to create any spell-trigger or spell-activation item.

>You must use the chosen skill for the check to create the item.

You can't use Spellcraft to make magic items, but a wizard can. That's going to automatically make them better, really, because they can craft any item they want while you are limited to the narrow sub-set of wondrous items/magic weapons/magic armor that would be appropriate for your craft or profession skill (which is always going to be less than what you could make with Spellcraft, which covers all magic items). Considering that, in this case, the skill is Prof: Stage Magician... Honestly, I more see things like smokesticks or thunderstones as tools of your trade, ways to add a little pizzazz and flash to your performance, but those are both alchemical items, so you can't craft those through Master Craftsman (you can craft a smokestick with a DC 20 alchemy check though, so you still might consider making some for your performances). As far as actual wondrous items... Depending on how liberal your DM is and how inventive you can get with uses for your items, you might be able to convince your DM a fair number fall under the territory of a stage magician, but I still don't think you'd match a wizard for versatility in crafting.

>> No.39562084

>>39562040

Paizo APs are the only reason Pathfinder exists

>> No.39562111

>>39562084
No, Pathfinder exists because 4th ed was insulting

>> No.39562167

You guys got any fun ideas for adding flavor to a custom character sheet?

Here's what I've got going on so far. This page is going to be sort of a 'vanity' page. I'm going to try and do a reference guide as well, for my feats, special abilities, and spells.

>> No.39562174

>>39562167
Frogot to mention I'm retarded.

>> No.39562192

For VMCs, all Cantrips have a Caster level = Character level, with a Casting stat for DCs based on the casting stat of the class. Otherwise they are At-will SLAs.

VMC Witch:
>1st level = Patron
>3rd level = Familiar (Witch level = Char level)
>7th level = Hex (Slumber only affects creatures with HD equal to or less than Char level, otherwise DC/caster level is witch level = char level)
>11th level = Cantrip
>15th level = Hex (first Hex gains any advancements from 8th level)
>19th level = Major Hex (cannot pick Ice Tomb)
VMC Witch does not qualify for Extra Hex

>> No.39562207

>>39562080
This is why you should use Profession : Courtesan. You can fluff that you craft items by exchanging your service to those lonely Wizard.

>> No.39562221

>>39559352
Honestly, while being dependent on two stats, while technically MAD, is where I think most classes should fall for good balance. Requiring a split between two stats as your primary ability scores prevents you from getting SAD, and also means you can choose to focus your build around one of those two stats more than the other (thus hopefully introducing both choices and variety right out of the box).

The fact that the Magus "needs" DEX and CON (and I'm not even going to chime in on the debate about whether or not they need them) is not really different from anyone else. I'd call those secondary stats for the Magus, as they are useful to have and definitely not dumpable, but probably not worth pumping as high as your aforementioned primary stats.

Whenever I homebrew a class, making them somewhat MAD in line with the way described above is one of the first things I aim for since deciding the uses a class has for different ability scores is one of the early steps of putting things together... That said though, I really like gishes, and between needing STR for the martial half of business and a mental stat for the casting half, almost have a need for two primary ability scores built in to the concept. So I might be kind of bias when I'm talking about gishes in general, but regardless I think "Two primary ability scores" should be on the homebrew checklist for any new class someone is working on. It's a good first step to a balanced class.

>> No.39562257

>>39562192

>cantrip at level 11

such a fucking insult

>> No.39562267

>>39562192
Are you sure Witch level = Character level?
Because that wouldn't make sense with their 15 level upgrade

>> No.39562303

>>39562257
and they think this is better than normal multiclass which gives you cantrip at 1 level dip.

>> No.39562310

>>39562267
Witch level = Character level for DCs and Caster level

That does not mean the Hex abilities increase. For example,

VMC Witch at level 14 has Evil Eye at a DC of 17 + Int Mod for the -2 Penalty.

VMC Witch at level 15 has Evil Eye at a DC of 17 + Int Mod for the -4 Penalty.

Hexes don't advance in abilities along with your level. Flight doesn't gain Fly or Levitate at 5th or 3rd respectively - but at level 15, you get both of those.

>> No.39562327

>>39562310
So at level 7, your slumber will last 7 round?
Scythe slumber coup might be fun to try.

>> No.39562343

Idea: Feat tree that gives 3/4 spellcasting to a character with less than 3/4 casting, feat tree that gives +BAB to character with less than 3/4 their level BAB

>inb4 buffs wizard

if they spend all of their feats on increasing their BAB, sure but I'm just throwing it out there

>> No.39562355

>>39562207
I've always wanted to play a Calistrian temple courtesan, but playing something like that would be a little awkward. Even in the mature group I'm with now, I don't think I'd do it. It's not like I don't have other character ideas and I'm not super-invested in the idea either, so it's not a big deal, but it's a type of character I've never played before and I wouldn't mind doing so one day. Something like that would have to be handled with tact though, so that your character doesn't just end up sleeping with all of his/her party members on a rotating nightly schedule.

>>39562267
Well, Oracle VMCs only get their revelations at character level -6, which sort of shot that option in the foot as far as being something useful is concerned. I wouldn't be surprised if there's something similar going on for other VMCs, like the witch.

>Already figuring out house rules for Unchained in my head, for fucking shame Paizo.

>> No.39562381

>>39562343
For what purpose? I mean it'd make sense in my homebrew (caster level = BAB) but I hand feats out like candy in addition to the other changes.

>> No.39562413

>>39559850
because double barrel is like getting two full attacks for one.

>> No.39562421

>>39562355
>VMC houserules
Me too. 5 feats for class features based on character level is a resonance trade off. It leaves most classes with too few feats to take what they need. I mean the devs cited an archer paladin being "late" to feats but there are more than 5 critical archery feats - pbs, ps, ips, clustered shots, etc

>> No.39562441

>>39562167
>>39562174
What happens when someone have their name, race and class names combined around 5-10 character longer than yours?
Use readable font for text that is supposed to be read, not stared upon. Verdana is a good start.
Center attribute and modifier separately.
Why does it show armor piece stats but not total AC?
Add more space between columns, and between rows too.

>> No.39562460

>>39562441
It's not for other people, just for me, and maybe one other player who wanted to make a sheet with me.

I thought the text was pretty readable. Any problem areas in particular?

First page isn't supposed to be an info dump. It's more to look pretty, and be a simple summary.

I'm adding in AC and other stats like HP, Speed, and Saves right now.

Good call on the spacing.

>> No.39562481

> Has an idea for Sound Striker Bard VMC Paladin of Shelyn
> It gonna suck

Sad..

>> No.39562491

>>39562460
>I thought the text was pretty readable. Any problem areas in particular?
Outlined text, even if really like it is for header(s). In your case, everything on the right from the portrait, and maybe stat values and mods. It's just hard to read if theres a lot of it, like all-caps walls of text.

>> No.39562556

Our party has a paladin of Iomedae, a N cleric of Urgathoa, and a. CN Warpriestess of Gorum in it.

How fucked are we?

>> No.39562633

>>39562556
I hope your not claiming the party would ever work together. Iomedae would never let a paladin work with Urgathoa.

>> No.39562635

>>39562491
Y/n?

>> No.39562654

>>39562633
So we're just totally fucked? That sucks. I made my concept a year ago.

No chance at reconciliation? What if the pally and the cleric are childhood friends or something?

>> No.39562689

>>39562654
It could maybe work with a cleric of Asmodeus, but not a plague bearing CE side of NE deity.

>> No.39562690

>>39562327
Yeah, it lasts 7 rounds.

>> No.39562697

>>39562327
It's not.

>> No.39562698

>>39562689
The Urgathoan is Neutral, m8. I don't know where you got CE. The Gorumite is closer to CE than the cleric.

>> No.39563153

>>39558103
You could get higher then that at level 3 by using firearms and the right traits.

>> No.39563227

I know this isn't a 3.5 general, but does anyone know what a Totemist from MoI is meant to do at first level? You don't really seem to GET any helpful soulmelds, so it just kinda... seems like it just doesn't work.

>> No.39563332

>>39561924
Funny enough, that is believable.

>> No.39563343

>>39563227
You don't need to bind soulmeld to use it.

>> No.39563405

>>39562698
>Urgathoa
Urguthoa is a NE deity that has plenty of Chaotic Evil followers.

I think Iomodae might excuse it if you're out fighting a much, much greater evil.

>> No.39563446

>>39563343
Given that all of them just give you +2 to X where X is usually a skill and not anything combat related, so that you lack natural attacks or any offense... yeah you do.

>> No.39563497

>>39563405
isn't iomedae literally hitler

>> No.39563518

>>39562556
Tell us more about the characters, instead of just their alignment. There's more depth to a character's personality than alignment (or at least, there should be). What tenets of Urgathoa's religion does the TN cleric follow? Not all of them, I assume, or else he'd probably match his deities' alignment. If he worships her as a symbol of disease as a natural and impartial aspect of life but doesn't mirror Urgathoa's beliefs about undeath, for example, then while he might seem weird and creepy as fuck to his party-mates it shouldn't set them off on him.

Your party might still be fucked, but I'm just trying to say that alignment alone isn't very informative. If your characters are only as deep as their alignment, then yeah, they're not going to get along, but people have this false impression that alignment tells you everything about a character when that's really not what it's useful for.

>> No.39563569

>>39555596
I was under the impression you don't actually take levels in the class, the feats are just what you give up for the class features

>> No.39564590

How successful would a blaster qinggong monk be? Maybe get a crossbow on the side?

>> No.39564827

>>39564590
As awesome as the mental image sounds, it probably wouldn't work out.

Use Spheres of Power or some combination of Psonic classes.

Maybe a Blaster Bloodrager(Bloody Knuckle), which would still be a little on the shitty side.

>> No.39564873

>>39564590
>>39564827
I'd recommend Elemental Flux Mystic, but it sucks for ranged blasting.
Maybe some day I'll find resolve to crunch Nanoha wiki into proper ranged blasting discipline. Maybe.

>> No.39564899

>>39554929
>Zealot
>It's just an OP Paladin that's designed to be RP'd the way every asshole (specifically assholes, not everyone) already plays a Paladin

...Why?

>> No.39564948

Is stunning fist even worth picking up with the four winds monk?

>> No.39565009

>>39564899
They already had made the more flexible Paladin with Empyreal Guardian, they were missing the unflexible one.

>> No.39565029

So if I go a polearm Warder with Weapon Finesse/Deadly Agility/Piercing Thunder, the build is effective-ish if a little feat intensive.

However, would I benefit much from a Lore Warden or Phalanx Fighter dip? The former mostly for skill points and an extra feat and maybe free Combat Expertise, and the latter doesn't seem likely because spending 3 levels to one-hand a polearm is costly, but if it opens up a combat avenue I haven't considered, it might be interesting.

>> No.39565183

>>39565029
Well, given that you're investing feats to be worse off than Str, your build is already gonna suck ass. You're also playing a class that attempts to make Int relevant while giving... absolutely fuckall to make it ACTUALLY a good stat for you, so it REALLY won't matter. Also, you basically need all your levels as an Intiator class if you want to be worth a fuck at all, but you've fairly clearly stopped giving a fuck about effectiveness at all and would rather play an abortion, so just multiclass into commoner for 19 levels instead.

>> No.39565734

Does a sacred servant paladin cast with charisma, like an oracle?

>> No.39566035

>>39565734
You mean "like regular Paladin"?

>> No.39566058

>>39566035
Yes. I still want to know if I can cast with charisma with a domain, or if it's restricted to wisdom like a cleric.
I'm half-asleep.

>> No.39566644

If a class feature says to use your class level as your BAB (eg tetori), can you just use your regular BAB if it's higher?

>> No.39566708

>>39566644
It means you use your level from the class + your BAB from levels in other classes as your BAB.

>> No.39566715

>>39566644
Nope

>> No.39567142

>>39563518
Cleric is a big believer in partying hard, because if you don't wrest every ounce of pleasure from this world at every opportunity, you might as well keel over and die tonight. At the same time, he's not actively malicious enough to hit full-Evil, though I think the temptation will be there going forward. He's big on hedonism, but he doesn't necessarily chew on babies unprovoked, you get me?

>> No.39567176

>>39564948
Anyone?

>> No.39567299

>>39567176
Probably not, unless you're going for something that has it as a prereq. It's not even that powerful effect(only stuns for one round), it has a fairly low save(because lol MAD) and it targets fort, which is generally the best save for monsters.

>> No.39567404

>>39564899
Not playing a zealot of Crration
Not spreading your seed everywhere

>> No.39567425

>>39567404
Creation*
Fuck this phone posting

>> No.39567753

>>39567299
I thought so, but I am not sure of any other unarmed feat that would compliment Elemental Fist...could I take elemental fist twice to get two per round?

>> No.39567948

>>39562111
go on

perhaps you could provide a few references to 'wowbabbies' and 'verisimilitude', it's been a little while and my grognard is quite rusty

>> No.39568019

>>39562221
This guy.

This guy knows how to Pathfinder properly.

>> No.39568099

>>39564899
Is it really an OP paladin? The only thing I'm seeing it the class that looks really strong is that both of its new disciplines are STRONK as fuck.

Also Zeal is super cool.

>> No.39568148

>>39565183
>Warder
>not making Int a valid stat
Are you brain damaged?

>Int to Reflex and Init
>Int is your Initiation modifier
>Int to AoOs

It literally replaces everything you'd ever need Dex for except touch AC (which you can replace with Int for a feat if you have shield proficiency). It's better even than Strength for the Warder.

>> No.39568276

>>39568148
Woop-de-fucking-do, you get Init which doesn't matter that much, and Reflex which is the least-needed save by far.

>Int to AoOs being a buff
That should be the better of Int or Dex and you know it
>A stat that barely does anything as your Initiation Mod
Wowit'sfuckingnothing.gif

>It's better than Strength
Yeah, sure thing. I mean, you don't need damage or to-hit at all, or carrying capacity, or CMD, and having zero Str definitely doesn't hurt stuff like Iron Shell.

Oh. Wait. It does.

>> No.39568399

>>39568276
>having more Dex than Int as a Warder
Yeah, you're gonna need to git gud.

If you can't see how amazing Int is for a Warder, you can feel free to dump it. Not that you'd have any clue what you're doing anyway.

>> No.39568561

>>39567948
Man you ask of me too much
4th ed was insulting because of the ad campaigns, I don't have a beef with the system
Well, the fluff was flimsy lot of times too. But on that front, Paizo is no better with its themepark Golarion

>> No.39568907

So, any sign of the unchained pdf yet? I know it's out, but nobody's posting it yet

>> No.39570071

Is a Pistolero dual-wielding revolvers a terrible, or amazing idea?

>> No.39570110

Is a party with a barbarian, paladin, and warpriest set in the early-level-HP-pool department?
We've got two witches, a cleric, a rogue, and a slayer to get spells and skills done.

>> No.39570194

>>39570110
>8 player party
Oh god, why.

>> No.39570489

>>39570194
Lot of friends?

>> No.39570871

>>39570071
Depend. Do you have a way to reload them like third hand or gun twirling?

>> No.39571236

>>39568907
None yet

>> No.39571419

>>39570110
>8 players
That sounds like living hell. I once was in a party that size, it took us 4 hours to get through a single encounter. For the sake of everyone, split the party.

>> No.39571583

>>39571419
It takes that long for us to get through a single encounter... In a party of four.

>> No.39571676

low level combat sucks so much
why cant it be so that everyone can do lot of things without it breaking the game

>> No.39573125

Is the pathfinder soulknife still legendary for its shittiness?

>> No.39573146

>>39573125
No, now it's a solid tier 4.

>> No.39573170

>>39573125
It's much better. DSP managed to work most of the stupid shit out of Psionics.

Also the Metaforge is the best fucking thing.

>> No.39574611

Who gives a shit about the unchained PDF?
Harbinger PDF where?

>> No.39575619

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin/archetypes/paizo---paladin-archetypes/enlightened-paladin-paladin-archetype

So, give it to me straight /tg/. What am I missing here? I imagine it's strictly worse than the regular Paladin, but for a monk-themed archetype it doesn't look too bad.

...which means I must be missing something, right?

>> No.39575686

>>39568276
>Init which doesn't matter that much
Full retard.

Full. Retard.

>> No.39575727

>>39575619
You're unarmed and unarmored. Not going to be much fun.

That said, it's probably a perfect lead in to that Paladin/Monk PrC which is pretty neat but likely mechanically garbage.

>>39575686
Pretty much anyone who thinks the Warder isn't the pinnacle of proper martial class design is full retard. It's effective, it has the ability to do more than just hit nerds, and it's nearly impossible to fuck up.

>> No.39575809

>>39575727
That is true. I don't mind much though, since the whole idea of the character is to have no armour and no weapons, but I'm just wondering if there's anything not obvious that I'm missing.

Champion of Irori? That requires both the Smite Evil and Still Mind class features, neither of which the prestige class has.

>> No.39575881

>>39575809
Ah, you're right, it does replace Smite Evil. That's silly as shit.

Yeah, you're supposed to multiclass Monk/Paladin for CoI. It sounds kind of cool, honestly, but with how retardedly MAD you have to be for that I don't know how anyone could justify it.

Play your naked bareknuckle Paladin. You'll probably be fine.

>> No.39575999

>>39575881
Yeah, it is. Personal Trial, although strictly worse than Smite Evil, isn't a terrible replacement since it functions against anything; not just evil opponents. I imagine I could make up for the shortcomings of unarmed combat with a combination of Divine Bond and Pummelling Style.

And I shall play it with pride!

>> No.39576003

>>39567142
That guy isn't a cleric of Urgathoa then. Urgathoa is the god of excess as in absolute gluttony. The clerics eat human flesh and are necromancers and plague bearers.

Your cleric should look into Cayden or Calistria for party gods.

>> No.39576503

>>39575619
It trades the offensive power of smite for the ability to run your AC and all saves off the same stat. Since your Dex+Cha is still capped by armor, you just dump Dex and put everything into Str/Cha.

It's actually really good in multiclass builds with monk. Monk needs Dex and Wis for AC and ki; 4 levels in Enlightened Paladin switches both of those to run on Charisma, letting you run a pure Str/Con/Cha monk. EP 4/Sohei X can flurry in light armor (meaning Mithral Breastplate + Brawling), get enhancement bonuses out of ki, picks up weapon training at 10th (meaning Gloves of Dueling), and has the highest saves around.

>> No.39577010

>>39576503
>someone's actually looked into this
>they have solid advice
You the real MVP, anon.

>> No.39577048

Soulthief life leech sadist 4
How do I build it to be hilariously fun as?

>> No.39577100

>>39577048
Max Wis
Get some Dex
Pick up blasting spells
Make sure you have Natural Healing and Vigor

I literally don't understand how you could not understand how to build this. It pretty much slaps you in the face with the "how".

>> No.39577139

Question /pfg/:

I want to build a sorcerer. I want to be powerful, as the rest of the party needs some serious arcane support, but I don't ant to do it in a "paragon surge bullshit cheese" way that is obviously powerful.

The rest of the party is a bunch of 7 cha murderhobo martials(ranger, fighter, monk) who can deal decent hp damage because the DM is nice to them but we are getting up there in levels and they are beginning to have a hard time.

>> No.39577175

>>39577139
Razmiran Priest. Always Razmiran Priest.

>> No.39577231

>>39577139
>>39577175
To make a powerful Sorcerer you needs spell, this is why Paragon Surge makes them super strong.

Make sure you are Human / Half-Elf / Half-Orc so you can take Human Racial favored for bonus spell. Arcane Bloodline gives you more spells.

Spend your wealth on (self crafted) Page of Spell Knowledge for more spells.

>> No.39577233

>>39576503
...huh. I might have to look into that. I was thinking of just running pure Paladin, or maybe finding some way to get Master of Many Styles in there somewhere, but this is an interesting idea. I'll play around with it.

Thanks, anon!

>> No.39577294

>>39577231
Yep. Human arcane for extra spells.

Didn't know about page of spell knowledge. basically a nerfed pearl of power but for spontaneous. Thanks.

>> No.39577404

>>39577175
eh. Don't want to do the religious angle. and " you are also divine caster who pays gold for spells known" is up there with "obviously cheese". Thanks for the advice though.

>>39577231
Am a human arcane sorcerer. familliar or bonded object? a imp with a wand of ill omen would be super helpfull, but so would an extra spell.

>> No.39578742

>>39577294
What are you talking about? Page of Spell knowledge is totally different than pearl of power (than spontaneous version of that is called Runestone of power btw).

Page of Spell knowledge doesn't increase your spell per day. It increase your spell known.

>> No.39578769

>>39577404
Familiar is more useful. Especially since they then can be your extra spell with wand / SLA too.

>> No.39579186

I need help /pfg/.

I am currently playing a noble politics game and am attempting to court a noble (my character is a member of another noble family). I have recently acquired the feat craft wondrous items, and would like to put it to use. I am looking for help on what exactly I should craft.

This is what I know about her:
>Family is largely draconic blooded sorcerers, of the white dragon variety
>She is obsessed with the language of flowers
>Is a gossip

I want to keep my budget below 500gp if possible (that's crafting budget, so 1000gp market value wondrous item).

Any ideas?

>> No.39579388

>>39579186
Ugh... you budget is kinda low man...

>> No.39579492

>>39579388
Yeah, I'm level 6 and we're on the low wealth track. I don't exactly have a lot of cash to spare.

And this isn't like a... engagement gift. This is just to show interest. However I worked it out with my DM, we worked out a cantrip equivalent spell to make an activated item for it to act as.

>> No.39579518

>>39579186
Cameo style pendant the shape of a red rose that can once a day conjure a silent image of a field of red, frost rimed roses.


As an aside:
I'm intending to play a Vanguard Captain Warlord as a shanty singing slavic swordsman.

Is there any advice you can offer to make it a smoother process to create?

I'm thinking of going Iron tortoise/Golden Lion/ Primal fury due to the charge support, but Scarlet throne is looking pretty good, too.

What's your take on the archetype?

>> No.39579539

>>39579518
Make that soldier rather than swordsman.

I've contemplated going pole-arm with that feat that lets you one-hand them and I'm open to more weapon options than the usual Arming Sword.

>> No.39579866

How can I use Entangle in dungeon without any plants?

Should I carry a pot plant with me or something?

>> No.39580098

I'm looking at the Warlord archetype 'Steelfist Commando', and noticed it says "He gains the Improved Unarmed Strike feat at 1st level, and he gains the Greater Unarmed Strike feat at 3rd level as bonus feats."
What is Greater Unarmed Strike? I can't seem to find anything on it.

>> No.39580103

>>39579866
Yes, or seeds.

>> No.39580116

>>39568561
this is fair, the 4e marketing and the 4e prebuilt campaign content was bad for pretty much its entire lifespan

>> No.39580175

>>39579866
No plants? What kind of dungeon is it?

>> No.39580205

>>39580175
A Newly Construct Tower? A stone fort?

>> No.39580224

>>39580205
Does entangle work with fungus? Because if it does you can use the Mildew. It's a structure, I doubt it's clean enough to not have at least some mildew or mold. Depends on the climate.

>> No.39580247

>>39580224
It's a dungeon owned by a cleaning obsessed wizard.

>> No.39580261

>>39580247
Then bring plants.

>> No.39580265

>>39580098
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/feats#TOC-Greater-Unarmed-Strike-Combat-

>> No.39580336

>>39580265
Ah, thank you.

>> No.39580414

So /tg/, how do I sell Path of War and Spheres of Power to my group? (am the DM)

>> No.39580438

>>39574611
>Harbinger PDF where?
Int to saves removed, full int to hit at 7 removed. Have fun.

>> No.39580441

>>39580414
>Hey guys, since I am DMing and none of you wanted to we are going to be rolling with PoW and SoP. I gave you all a week or two to read up on it so dont disappoint.

>> No.39580639

Path of War noob here.

When exactly can you use each level of Maneuvers? I don't have the PDF, am only browsing the stuff on PFSRD.

>> No.39580689

>>39580639
Check the systems and use subsection. Also, it's basically your initiator level halved, rounded up.

>> No.39580714

>>39577175
Wait a second... He gets to cast spells from divine scrolls for the cost of spelllevel+1 sorc spell slot, without using up the scroll?

>> No.39580766

>>39567425
Actually I was gonna play one. Half giant blacksmith.

>> No.39580869

>>39580689

Ah I see it now, cheers.

>> No.39580978

>>39576503
>>39577010
>>39577233

>It trades the offensive power of smite for the ability to run your AC and all saves off the same stat.

Not quite. EP doesn't replace DEX with CHA, it adds CHA as a Dodge bonus to AC, capped by level - so that EP 4/Sohei X is only ever going to add 4 to his AC and still needs a smattering of DEX for his mithral breastplate to offer the best protection. For full-on CHA-for-all, you need to dip Oracle to establish CHA as the base for AC and REF, then add EP's CHA-as-Dodge bonus, and THEN add the Sohei's AC bonus from class and/or any WIS bonus you might have. (Get the Kobold Confidence feat for basing your Fort save on CHA or WIS.)

If anything, this makes it a WIS/CHA monk, not a STR/CON/CHA one.

>> No.39581083

>>39580714
Yes. So you are a better Mystic Theurge than actual Mystic Theurge (except for spell per day).

Bonus point because you are in the world where most Arcane spell can be make into Divine spell (Lorekeeper Oracle, Arcane Archivist, Lore Shaman etc.).

Also did you knew that expensive material components are added to the scroll cost when it was made?

That means you can keep casting the same scroll of Resurrection over and over and paying that 10k only once.

>> No.39581113

Since Ray are weapon, that means I can apply Point-Blank Shot and Arcane Strike on it right?

Any others feat that help maximize Ray damage?

>> No.39581143

>>39581113
Point-blank shot and most other archery feats, yes. Arcane strike would require you to actually use a weapon, so I don't think that would work.

>> No.39581144

>>39580978
wait, can you double-dip CHA if it's different bonuses? (As in, Oracle mystery+Smite deflection bonus?)

>> No.39581150

>>39581083
Looks awesome.
Are there downsides of False Focus + Holy symbol (tattoo) compared to Eschew Materials if my DM isn't into burning tattoos off, severing limbs and other guro?

>> No.39581191

>>39581143
What is preventing you from Arcane Striking a ray? Swift Action can be use during other action, so you can imbues Ray with Arcane Strike after you cast it.

>> No.39581204

>>39581191
Because a ray is not a weapon.

>> No.39581212

>>39581150
Your GM might kills you if you are trying to cheat wealth via Masterwork Transformation tools, Fabricate or use any Alchemical Power Component for free.

There is nothing prevent you from just picking up Eschew Materials or Spell Component Pouch though...

>> No.39581242

>>39581204
http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9oag

http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9nef

> Ray: Do rays count as weapons for the purpose of spells and effects that affect weapons?
> Yes.
> For example, a bard's inspire courage says it affects "weapon damage rolls," which is worded that way so don't try to add the bonus to a spell like fireball. However, rays are treated as weapons, whether they're from spells, a monster ability, a class ability, or some other source, so the inspire courage bonus applies to ray attack rolls and ray damage rolls.

>The same rule applies to weapon-like spells such as flame blade, mage's sword, and spiritual weapon--effects that affect weapons work on these spells.

Ray are treats as weapon for all intent as purpose. You can even use Weapon Focus (Ray) or Weapon Specialization (Ray).

>> No.39581280

>>39581150
People say it can be remove it with Erase spell. You can argue that you are a valid target for Erase spell though (Target one scroll or two pages). Other than that, you needs to see your own tattoo to use it as Holy Symbol, so that might becomes problem in some situation.

>> No.39581283

>>39580414
IMAGINE YOU A WIZARD
TOSS OUT THAT DUMB SPELLS PER DAY SHIT
FIREBALL ALL DAY
IMAGINE YOUR A FIGHTER
IMAGINE YOU CAN STOP TIME AT FUCKING WILL
IMAGINE YOU CAN SHOOT A FUCKER SO HARD YOU SEND HIM FLYING OFF A GOD DAMN CLIFF
IMAGINE YOU CAN COPY WISH WHEN A WIZARD TRIES TO FUCK YOU OV
>Also I'm the GM so deal with it bitches.

>> No.39581285

>>39560590

>Banning Summoners
>Not banning Clerics, Druids and Wizards

If it's because of complexity, just tell the player they need to have all their relevant stats ready, just like a normal spellcaster needs to have all their spells ready instead of flipping through the book every time.

If you think they're overpowered, they're worse on control and utility than normal wizards, and Synthesist sacrifices utility and action economy in favor of melee combat power. The fact they make fighters sad doesn't mean they're broken, it just means fighter a shit.

>> No.39581316

>>39581285
Ummm Summoners get some good spells at lower levels then other casters, as well as the summon monster SLA, and the Eldon also can break action economy by basically always having two party members on the field

>> No.39581317

>>39581283
Pathfinder Unchained has rules for that.

You get a limited number of your highest three levels of spells, and then you work off of a pool system for any lower level spell.

It doesn't bug me as much s it would in 3.5 because you need to buff your DC's so high for lower level spells to be effective in PF that it's pretty much insignificant outside of mobs of low CR critters that can't even hurt the party by the time the pool is applicable.

>> No.39581330

>>39581144
Anyone? What about Sidestep Secret+Divine Protection/Divine Grace?

>> No.39581332

>>39581317
I don't think you understand.
I can, at level 1, teleport as a standard action an infinite number of times per day.
It's only 25ft at level 1, but hey

Also you can create statues of party members in various WWE poses and drop them onto enemies.

>> No.39581372

>>39581330
Yes, it replaces your dex bonus to reflex, so it is not a bonus it is a replacement. If it was a bonus to reflex based on your charisma then it would not stack.

>> No.39581373

So what do you think is the sweet spot of Pathfinder level wise?
Before like lvl 5, you don't have enough feats or spells to make interesting things.
Then at like lvl 12 everything breaks down because you get too many choices

>> No.39581483

>>39581373
6. E6 is a thing.

>> No.39581593

>>39581373
Higher levels works for me anon, but I use SoP/PoW

>> No.39581608

>>39581593
While SoP/PoW are nice, they do not mesh well with APs because encounter designs go to hell

>> No.39581875

>>39581608

How so?

>> No.39581987

>>39581875
Because they operate on whole different level

>> No.39581991

> Playing non-human Archer before level 3
This is suffering..

>> No.39582003

Question, using Noble Scion(Scion of War) and Tactician on a character, so already got a +4 to Initiative. Do I prioritize Improved Initiative or Divine Protection?

>> No.39582037

Wait.. Adopted Trait itself change into another racial trait?

So if I start with adopted trait I can have
1) Adopted
2) Racial Trait from adopted
3) Other trait

am I right?

>> No.39582109

>>39582037

Yes.

>> No.39582148

What's the best level one buff accessible to clerics? Is it still Bless?

>> No.39582207

>>39580414
Run a one-shot only allowing those systems as a "playtest" before doing any real campaign with them. If they like them, cool. If not, it was a one-shot, big deal.

>> No.39582213

>>39582003
Additional Question, can I create a +1 Heavy Shield, and additonally put a mwk shield spike on top of it? (Also, do shield spikes count as armor or weapons for crafting purposes?)

>> No.39582251

>>39582148

Protection Against Evil
Moment of Greatness if you've got a bard or barbarian in the party
Divine Favor

>> No.39582292

>>39581285
My biggest issue with the Summoner over any other class personally is the Summon Monster SLA that lets them constantly have summons out.

I played one campaign with someone using the Master Summoner and Shadow Caller archetypes(with DM permission, though the <Master Summoner's the onlt relevant one) where any fight was basically a matter of how long it took for the summoner to flood the field with Shadows to kill everything.

The worst was when we had a large army of bandits incoming with warning ahead of time and time to prepare. Our Summoner spent the whole time summoning masses of Shadows and basically wiped out half the army before the fight even started.

Each of his turns took fucking forever and the game was getting really dull real fast, though part of that was also the Pathfinder system. And I think the Summoner agreed because he basically got is character killed on purpose and rerolled a Warder.

>> No.39582314

>>39582213
Yes. Shield spike count as weapon.

>> No.39582348

>>39582292
That's Master Summoner problem. Why ban the whole class? You could easily just house rule that they can only have 1 minion (Companion,Eidolon,Combat Familiar, Summon Monster) out at all time.

This actually fix the problem. Patch things up by banning summoner means the player will turn toward stuff like Occultist Arcanist, Preservationist Alchemist, Wizard with Acadamae Graduate, Cleric with Sacred Summoning etc.

>> No.39582383

I really wish retraining would had never been made into a thing

>> No.39582403

>>39582383

>implying system mastery is a good thing

>> No.39582421

Can anyone help me build Bard (Sound Strike/Arcane Healer)? I'm playing him as the the former Cleric of Shelyn, who got kicked out because he want to sing all day instead of spreading the religion.

I'm not sure about what feat and stat array (20 Point-Buy) I should take. I'm hanging between Human for Skilled and Faster Feat Progression and Halfling for better DEX and CHA.

Probably going standard archery route with extra channel and selective channel add-in before Cluster Shot.

>> No.39582439

>>39582383
You know that won't happen. Paizo makes money by releasing new books every month. No one is going to buy those books if they can't use shiny new feat in their PFS character.

>> No.39582620

> Want to treat people with unlock Heal skill
> Gotta worship Zon-Kuthon to take Battlefield Surgeon trait.

Why..?

>> No.39582634

>>39582620
>Battlefield Surgeon
What?
>http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/religion-traits/battlefield-surgeon
Why is it even a religon trait?

>> No.39582710

>>39582634
Anon, the pfsrd can't include the fluff of traits. The original source undoubtedly characterized it as the product of a lifetime of spiked chain sex.

>> No.39582762

>>39582710

>> No.39582884

>>39582762
If your GM is reasonable, I would allow anyone to take that trait.

That's like saying you need to fucking worship the god of Cereal to eat cereal after 10 AM. Or something stupid like that. I also remember apparently only Gnomes can take the "zealot" trait, for some fucking reason.

>> No.39582987

>>39582762
Huh. I guess in Golarion the medical profession isn't very advanced, except in the darker circles of the Kuthonite faith.

Talk to your DM, fag. Either get a new setting or man up and worship Zon-Kuthon.

>> No.39583017

>>39582884
>>39582987
I just funny that God that actually has a Healing Domain doesn't grant their worshiper this trait.

>> No.39583181

>>39583017
Why would you need to kit wounds when you can just fart some cure light wounds?

>> No.39583245

>>39582987
>medical profession isn't very advanced
Well fleshcrafting was a thing and the Indians and Egyptians were pretty capable of some pretty cool operations early on.

>> No.39583310

>>39583181
skill unlock Healing is more cost efficient than a wand of CLW. Taking 0 gp and 1 hour to heal half your hp and 12 ability damage.

>> No.39583316

I remember that there is an item that help get rid of low str penalty on bow?

Am I just imagining thing?

>> No.39583321

>>39583310
Yes, but that is on perspective of adventuring and not just general life of a priest

>> No.39583424

>>39583245
Then they must be less advanced than even those primitive savages, Anon.

That's what happens when you waste all your civilization's time on developing more and better spells.

>> No.39583429

Should I bother using bow with 8 STR or should I stick with crossbow until I actually have iterative attacks?

>> No.39583492

>>39583429
Take a non-composite longbow. You won't be dealing much damage, but at least you'll be able to fight.

>> No.39583544

>>39580438
>>Int to saves removed, full int to hit at 7 removed.
Wow, so it went from being SAD to a worthless MAD class?
Time to beg my GM to let me use the superior prototype version.

>> No.39583602

>>39583544
Well, it's no more MAD than other initiators. Still full int to damage at 10, and amazing accuracy with half int to it, and dark focus.
That being said, I like Mystic more now, because it has all the new disciplines I like.

>> No.39583645

>>39583602
And those initiators suck. Harbinger was the SOLE good initiator because it finally had one single stat for pretty much everything relevant.
Honestly, if you ask me, stats should be nothing more than a way to fluff how your character accomplishes a task.
Dex? You hit faster than they can defend.
Wisdom/Intelligence? You hit weak spots.
Charisma? You... have an overwhelming force of personality that literally hurts others.

>> No.39583712

>>39583645
>And those initiators suck. Harbinger was the SOLE good initiator because it finally had one single stat for pretty much everything relevant.

SAD is bad design and a big part of why Paizo sucks.

>> No.39583719

>>39583712
>>SAD is bad design
No, it's good design for HIGH FANTASY. Like I just outlined, it's the best fluff for really fast/really smart/really wise/ridiculously charismatic characters.

>> No.39583721

>>39581608
Encounter design in APs already went to hell, because Paizo expects the AP writers to playtest them on their own time for no extra pay "if they want to". I question how much they even adhere to their own CR system in some APs, but even ignoring that the CR system itself has some pretty gross outliers like ghouls and wooden golems.

Anyway, they can't really design encounters well when they don't even know what the player group will consist of, so to a certain limited extent you can't blame them for it.

>> No.39583734

>>39583712
>a big part of why Paizo sucks.
Are you for real? It's not the multitude of game-ending spells and absurd amounts of flexibility that are the problem, noo, it's the fucking stat allocation?

>> No.39583737

>>39583721
Its pretty funny that they openly admitted they don't bother to playtest APs on the forums.

>> No.39583742

>>39583719
But Pathfinder is not high fantasy adventure third of the levels

>> No.39583756

>>39582383
Why is that, Anon? Do you just find the idea of a high-level sorcerer being able to somehow forget all of his innate magic and even lose his bloodline while training hard to become a high-level Warpriest over a couple weeks/months a little silly?

>> No.39583775

>>39583756
Please Anon no...
no...

>> No.39583778

>>39583742
That's because those levels are supposed to be about the journey to that stage.
I hardly think wanting fluff to match up with mechanics like this is "ONLY SAMURAI CAN BE SAMURAI" tier. If a character is super smart, doesn't it make sense that they can analyze stuff for weaknesses and how to defend themselves to a degree we could only dream of?

>> No.39583836

>>39583778
>If a character is super smart, doesn't it make sense that they can analyze stuff for weaknesses
Investigator

>how to defend themselves to a degree we could only dream of
Combat Expertise

If you are saying that you should be able to put INT modifier to both AC and attack/damage rolls, you devalue actual combat stats.
And if all stats become the same, there is no reason to have them at all.

>> No.39583845

>>39582383
>You've made a grave error. Now either kill your character and reroll or suffer with the bad decision you made forever.

Get fucked, mate.

>> No.39583855

>>39583778
>If a character is super smart, doesn't it make sense that they can analyze stuff for weaknesses and how to defend themselves to a degree we could only dream of?

No.

>> No.39583858

>>39583845
>grave error
This is not a video game
There is no such build in this game that you cannot survive a campaign unless the DM is literally so hitler that he wants to kill his players
I am talking of course that everyone in the party is not playing something bad at the same time

>> No.39583861

>>39580438
Oh by the way, did they fix the hot curse-on-curse-on-curse action?

>>39583836
>And if all stats become the same, there is no reason to have them at all.
Nope. I just told you why there's a reason to have them, it's for fluff.

>>39583855
>No.
Then you're a moron.

>> No.39583872

>>39583645
We've been over this. You have no idea what a well-designed class looks like it, and pre-nerf Harbinger sure as fuck wasn't it.

>> No.39583875

>>39583861
>fluff
Fluff is meaningless without mechanics to back it up.
This is non-negotiable fact.

>> No.39583893

>>39583872
We've been over this, you get pissy about SAD and never have anything better to say.
>>39583875
Yes, which is why I support SAD.

>> No.39583901

How do you guys feel about Investigator?

>> No.39583907

>>39583858
>implying there isn't a HUGE number of trap feats and options in the game that can actively ruin your character with how bad they are.

>>39583893
Doesn't change that your pet class took two to the kneecaps, while the Zealot and Mystic are looking great.

>> No.39583915

>>39583907
Already said I'm going to disregard it and stick with the prototype, mate.

>> No.39583919

>>39583893
No listen.
If you want universal SAD, you remove the mechanic which removes the fluff as well.

>> No.39583932

>>39583919
No, I don't. I simply use options that enable universal SAD.

>> No.39583948

>>39583915
No DM is going to say "oh, you want to use this version that they thought was to strong? Yeah, that's fine."

Harbinger is seriously the worst class DSP had ever designed, pre-nerf, and you are a silly edgelord faggot for trying to abuse that.

>> No.39583949

>>39583861
>Oh by the way, did they fix the hot curse-on-curse-on-curse action?
No idea, I don't have the PDF.

>> No.39583960

>>39583932
>options
You want power creep bloat, that is what you want

>> No.39583965

>>39583949
Then you might be full of shit and they didn't change a thing about its SADness.

>>39583948
Then I'll just steamroll them and their shitty encounters with a wizard.

>> No.39583969

Even old Harbinger wasn't SAD. If you get TWO stats to attack and damage, why won't you increase both? And everyone needs CON, and a bit of DEX.

>> No.39583978

>>39583960
Explain how SAD is power creep bloat, you forthless cretin.

>>39583969
It was SAD enough.

>> No.39583981

>>39583965
>Then you might be full of shit
Or I might read gitp thread where all the developers and sunscribers hang out.

>> No.39583993

>>39583978
Because this is Pathfinder which means you would advocate for feats that let you turn INT into AC or other bonuses

>> No.39583994

>>39583981
Fuck 'em all with a rusty rake.

>> No.39584184

>>39583993
see
>>39583994

I hate the bloated feat tree system. Just... Just fucking make it a thing you do. What's the problem with that?

>> No.39584193

>>39584184
So what is it going to be then?
A trait?
Class ability?
Or redesign the whole fucking game?

>> No.39584228

>>39584193
Three guesses, and the first two don't count.

>> No.39584246

>>39584228
Well Paizo will never leave 3.5 so good luck with that

>> No.39584273

>>39584246
I'll just houserule all of my problems away.

>> No.39584305

Is there anything aside from that one Fighter archetype for using weapons that are too big for you?
I'm trying to have a character that uses a Large blunderbuss as a human.

>> No.39584312

>Make every character need only a single stat to do absolutely everything

Why even have stats

>> No.39584337

>>39584312
I explained it the first time, it's tying in fluff with crunch. It's meatier and more reliable than an outright fate points-esque system, so don't try and tell me I should play a system like that.

>> No.39584378

>>39584337

Why not just play level20

You have one stat, level

Roll 1d20 + your level if you need to see if you suceed at something

>> No.39584395

>>39584378
Not enough.

>> No.39584443

What kind of hoops do I need to jump through to be able to one-hand a Lance at all times instead of when on a mount?
Is there an archetype for this?

>> No.39584576

>>39584443

phalanx fighter or wield a small lance

>> No.39584598

>>39583492
non-composite still has STR penalty.

>> No.39584921

So weapon finesse means I can apply dex instead of str to attack rolls for unarmed strikes.

How do I get that to apply to damage rolls as well?

>> No.39584933

>>39584921
Play Unchained Rogue.

>> No.39584955

>>39584921
Agile Amulet of Mighty Fist.

>> No.39585037

>>39584443
If 3pp allowed, alternatively you can just go Aegis, and grab the extra arms, which basically does the same. (And grab Powerful Build for oversized weapons too)

>> No.39585338

>>39584921
Or if you're allowed access to Path of War then just grab Deadly Agility.

>> No.39585375

>>39583965
>Then I'll just steamroll them and their shitty encounters with a wizard.

That guy detected

>> No.39585429

>>39585375
Hey, don't blame me!

>> No.39585455

>>39585429
You're purposefully trying to break the game and then throwing a fit if the GM doesn't let you. Hell yeah I'm gong to blame you.

>> No.39585640

At what point does one cross the line into Evil Land when it comes to Diseasing people up and eating folks?

>> No.39585662

>>39585640
Elaborate

>> No.39585672

>>39585640
Probably pretty bloody early on.

>> No.39585694

>>39585640
I'm pretty sure cannibalism is one of those "always evil" things, because it'll turn you into a ghoul or even ghast when you die.

>> No.39585740

>>39585662
>>39585672
Goddess says be insatiable and push the taboo envelope all the way when feeding them appetites and urges; Goddess also bathes in pestilence and has a major hard-on for plagues. Goddess is Neutral Evil.

DM says no Evil alignments on characters. Character is cleric. Cleric must by necessity be Neutral. Character is from glorious Taldor (Cassomir,) and was raised by a cook.

Initially, my thinking was some cross between a Travel Channel host and Hannibal Lecter, but I'm curious where most people draw their Evil lines. I don't want to put the DM in a bad spot by eating too many people, you get me?

>> No.39585911

>>39585740
Are you >>39562556?

>> No.39586030

>>39585740
Well
Disease is pretty evil
Undeath is pretty evil
Gluttony is neutral
If you only keep the gluttony part, it kinda works?
Just someone who wants to consume things in excess without actually wanting to harm other people

>> No.39586047

>>39585694
Could be worse. Ghouls only major weakness besides positive energy is a feeding dependency right?

>> No.39586081

>>39586047
Yup. You can even take racial feats to make yourself appear more lifelike.

>> No.39586133

>>39585455
>break the game
Uhhh, even the prototype harbinger has nothing on the wizard.

>> No.39586185

Is Oracle/Sorcerer/Mystic Theurge worth a fuck?

>> No.39586213

>>39586185
Why not just go Sorcerer/Oracle?

>> No.39586263

>tfw you just broke your DM's heart by refusing his favorite waifu ship in a big, undeniable way.

What the hell was I supposed to do? She regained her honor, she had gear and wealth, her former lord and lover was in the kingdom begging forgiveness for her exile, and my character has been doing the absolute minimum to show interest in her mainly because the DM basically shoves them together and says "now, kiss!"

>> No.39586265

>>39586185
You're probably better off going sorcerer false priest(either the PrC or the archetype). Without early entry shenanigans, Mystic Theurge is pretty weak, especially at low levels.

>> No.39586321

>>39586263
Hey, I remember you from a month ago. What's up? Your new campaign been going well aside from romance fumbles? Got another storytime for us?

>> No.39586391

>Kapenia Dancer and Eldritch Scion stack
>Take either Swashbuckler or Daring Champion as a dip to nab Finesse and other goodies
>grab Slashing Grace with Bladed Scarf
>mfw

>> No.39586511

>>39586321
>Your new campaign been going well aside from romance fumbles? Got another storytime for us?

Not really, no, just a bunch of stuff related to drug smuggling and the battle we've been planning for the past two levels; the waifu got a band of ronin as companions along with the lord, and since we've got a long period of peace going on my character finally popped the question of "why are you still here?" To the waifu after the feasting.

The terrible thing is I could hear my DM's voice drop the moment I pointed out I've been grooming a young cohort for my new right hand for a while now, and now that the waifu's gotten everything she wanted she might as well return to her homeland with honor and glory, and then when she mentioned "us" I said she was chasing a shadow, nothing more.

Did I even do the right thing? I mean I never felt like the characters had a connection, but I don't know if that was apparent to everyone else, plus it was kind of spurred for petty reasons after the brand new player is getting romantically involved with our silver dragon ally.

>> No.39586558

>>39586391

>Dipping, as a caster, for a single bonus feat
>Dipping as an eldritch scion when you don't get reliable spell combat until level 8

>> No.39586632

>>39586511
You did the right thing, anon, both in character and out. If I'm going to have a romantic interest in an RPG, I'd make one myself. Like playing the cohort as enamored with the PC or something, and that's only if everybody was fine with it happening. Having the GM pull a fast one on you like that is just begging to be shot down.

That said, maybe you could get a second opinion and tell us what they thought? Did the DM pull any weird stunts like saying "Oh she falls in your arms" or "She stares at you" at any point?

>> No.39586804

>>39586632
>Did the DM pull any weird stunts like saying "Oh she falls in your arms" or "She stares at you" at any point?

Sort of, for the most part we've been very cool and professional to each other, and the times we weren't came across more as good friends than lovers.

The only reason we're assumed to be an item is because she's my cohort, we've banged in the past (every time she was the one initiating, I just went along with it because spotlight pressure) and everyone else has a significant other, and since my cohort's always by my side she's assumed to be it.

>> No.39586853

>>39586804
Uhhh, huh?

Oh. In that case yeah, I can see why your DM's confused. Make your guy have a romantic change of heart and realize who he wanted all along.

>> No.39587096

>>39586804
>We hang out all the time, have the same interests, and fuck, but we're totally not dating

>> No.39587132

>>39586804
This is some high-grade density.

>>
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