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38846360 No.38846360 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

What happens if a Paladin with an oath of chastity is asked by his patron goddess to sleep with her?

>> No.38846382

It's obviously a test, so he says no.

>> No.38846394

>>38846360
If she asks, he says no. If she demands, he fucks her with all his pent up holy rage.

>> No.38846403

>>38846360
wait thats a thing now fuck

i thought we left that bullshit behind when we all agreed to ignore half the book of exalted deeds

THE CHASTITY SHIT WAS ON THE HALF THAT YOUR MEANT TO IGNORE

>> No.38846424

>>38846382
Yadda, yadda, goddess needs a child for handwave reasons, yadda, yadda chose Paladin as the sperm donor. Or maybe she just fell in love with her most faithful servant. Things happen.

>> No.38846429

>>38846403
you might be able to swing a vow of chastity as lawful but its got nothing to do with good

>> No.38846430

The recipient of an oath is allowed to release the oathmaker from the sworn oath.

He swore the oath to his goddess. She can release him from his oath of chastity.

>> No.38846436
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38846436

>>38846424
>GM makes up bullshit reasons to force you into his magical realm

>> No.38846437

>>38846424

How do you know that explanation isn't just part of the test?

>> No.38846438

I punch the DM.
Also, please refrain from asking such stupid questions in the future.

>> No.38846439

Lel he falls because I'm clearly such a clever DM and why are you playing a moralfag noncaster in muh game m8.

>> No.38846442

>>38846424

Yadda yadda yadda magical realm yadda yadda throat punch th dm yadda yadda

You sound like fucking matthew mcconahey

>> No.38846462

>>38846430
well problem solved i guess

of course what happens next depends on if the palidan wants to sleep with her a good god cant demand sex like that it has to be consensual

>> No.38846471

>>38846360
An oath of chastity is often worded as being married to your god, so I'd say just fuck away. It could be part of your back story. "Well, you are a very tempting succubus, but I had sex once twelve years ago and nothing's going to top that."

>> No.38846485

>>38846471
i like it

the marrige to your god idea will always be tainted for me by how much of an arsehole the unicorn god was about it but i still like it

>> No.38846487

>>38846360
It's either a Test, in which case fuck that god, or a reward, and in that case... well... fuck that god.

>> No.38846488

>>38846471
>I had fun once
>it was awful
>never again

Your paladins goddess is that bad of a lay that he's put off sex forever.

>> No.38846504

>>38846488
i like this also

>> No.38846505

>>38846488
I think it is more that sex with his goddess is so good that sex that mortals and demons offer can't compare.

>> No.38846518

>>38846462
The reason I ask is because it happened to me a few years back and I refused cause my Paladin argued that while she was free to free him of his oath he considered the oath part of his being and thus would not act on it. She was a bit pissed as Greek style gods usually are when puny humans dare to rebel (she was an Athena equivalent), but in the end she just let him be, no falling or anything.

>> No.38846529

He doesn't fall for having sex with the goddess, however he DOES fall if he uses a condom or allows her to abort the baby, because those are evil acts.

>> No.38846537

>>38846518
sounds fun

>>38846529
how the fuck is a condom evil

abortion sure thats an instant fall to evil for anybody but a condom no

>> No.38846547

>>38846505
Even when she's drunk and looks like a pumpkin. Ilias

>>38846529
How are those evil?

>> No.38846561

>>38846537
Well if the point of her asking you to sleep with her is to get her pregnant using a condom is obviously deceit.
Though I think the anon in question is just trying to bait.

>> No.38846571

>>38846537
>>38846547

Interfering with or perverting the natural process of procreation for pleasure is evil, and causes a paladin to fall.

>> No.38846572

Stop it goddess

>> No.38846573

>inb4 300+ posts

/tg/, I'm ashamed of you.

>> No.38846585

>>38846561
you are probably right

you know i remember a thread once asking weather abortion was a lawful evil or chaotic evil act i said it had no effect on the law chaos axis but a bunch of fagots tried to turn it into a good evil argument

a good thread brought low

>> No.38846589

>>38846571
>Lawful good is the no fun ever alignment: The Post

>> No.38846597

>>38846585
>Discussing abortion
>on the internet
You see where that thread went wrong?

>> No.38846598

>>38846571
what if your a paladin of the sex god

hell plenty of animals fuck outside breeding season

you know for all its mistakes the book of exalted deeds did a good job on the god of sex

>> No.38846612

>>38846597
i know i know but i thought we could manage it

i wanted to believe

although the fagots insisting that op was trying to start an argument were the worst

>> No.38846613

>>38846598
While I don't agree with the anon in question, animals are immoral (or amoral? sorry English is my second language) beings so that argument does not really work.

>> No.38846619

>>38846613
you are right anon

and yeah i think its amoral

>> No.38846626

>>38846619
on the other hand he did talk about nature so its hard to argue avoiding procreation is unnatural

>> No.38846655

Wait, so if you impregnate your goddess does being lawful good obligate you to be part of the child's upbringing? Or does your oath of obedience to your goddess force you to be a deadbeat dad? She is a goddess of good so she would naturally care well enough for the kid one way or the other.

>> No.38846659

>>38846571

Disregarding the bait, this actually gave me a somewhat interesting idea for a campaign.

What if every time you did something against the normal laws of reality (for example, rezzing a paladin) you got slapped down a level?

So everything you do has to be somehow plausible. Like Paradox in an Aberrant game.

If nothing else, it would be a good for a low magic campaign.

>> No.38846676

>>38846429
Silence sodomite.

>> No.38846688

>>38846424
Then why not Divine impregnation on the Paladin, by proxy?
It worked for Yewah and Mario, to birth Jesus.

>> No.38846692

>>38846571
No, it's not really evil by societal rules of most generic fantasy worlds (even prostitution, while considered immodest or immoral by certain parties, is not evil and in most of those worlds no one gets an ire of any divine being for sleeping around without will to procreate, unless it's combined with cheating, breaking vows etc).

Please don't go /pol/ on us.

>> No.38846701

>>38846659
It sounds pretty low magic to me. In one "gods have abandoned us" setting I played once all magic was bound to the forces of chaos and oblivion hence it being always connected to high as fuck risk. Being a post apocalyptic hellhole one warlord king ended up nuking an entire city to bring back his son only for the son to turn out to be mad as shit and went on to kill his father and burn and rape his way across the realms becoming Genkis Khan on steroids.

>> No.38846715

>>38846692
to be fair prostitution is technicly illegial acording to the book of exalted deeds but fuck following that that has got to be one of the most ignored things in any sourcebook

>> No.38846719

>>38846573
Give it a hour, 4 people can only write so fast.

>> No.38846731

>>38846655
good question

>>38846715
i mean technically evil

>> No.38846738

>>38846429
Same as arguing "being friends with insects" is evil -- its obviously not (and no, Verminfriend does not involve becoming an erotic termite fancier).

Vile/exalted feats, although poorly thought out and dumb all around, aim to give evil and good chars, as supernatural blessings from their respective patrons, peripheral considerations.

You don't have to be chaste to be good, just as you on't have to fuck liches to be evil.

>> No.38846743

>>38846692

How is prostitution not evil? I refuse to believe that something so disgusting and undignified could be morally good or neutral.

>> No.38846774
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38846774

>>38846743
yeah, good one

try better next time

>> No.38846784

>>38846743
If prostitution were morally evil how could you then justify how present wenching is with bards and rogues who tend to be chaotic good?

>> No.38846813

>>38846360

Paladins don't have patron deity.

>> No.38846814

Anyways, going back to the OP, would the situation change if the pala in question were female and the god male?
I mean now you gotta run around with a god baby for several months and your god pretty much asks you to retire from adventuring for four-five months leading up to birth if not more. Also depending on the setting you may die in childbirth.
Inb4 tumblr SJWs.

>> No.38846816

>>38846774

I'm serious. Prostitution in a normal fantasy setting is a public health menace. How is spreading herp and the clap not at least mildly evil-aligned?

>> No.38846821

>>38846715
>>38846743
>>38846692

Neutral and evil are different alignments. Obviously, paladins shouldn't use prostitutes, and good chars in general aren't going to use prostitutes, but neutrals can. Its fine behavior for a shade of grey antihero and it doesn't necessitate a smiting.

Basically, ask yourelf what Riker would do -- he fucks humans and aliens alike with relentless aplomb, but he carefully makes sure its consensual and not mercantile first.

Only exception was when he was the one being coerced into sex, and Vow of Chastity makes an exception for unwilling sex too.

>> No.38846833

>>38846784
Sound more like chaotic neutral.

Of course, AD&D CG and 3.x CG are a bit different.

>> No.38846854

>>38846816
The same way breathing isn't evil despite the fact that if you breath you could potentially spread random disease.

>> No.38846858

>>38846424
Paladins do not derive their powers from their gods. The gods are ideals that inspire Paladins. A Paladin's power and virtue comes from their own conviction, they are the mortal spark awakening into its own divinity.

Fuck the police.

>> No.38846865

>>38846814

That could be entertaining, but you wouldn't necessarily get pregnant.

>you may die in childbirth

Oh come on, you know there's no way in hell that's going to happen.

>> No.38846868

>>38846814
I'd really hope that, in the kind of setting that features paladins and tangibly potent gods, divine healing magic can eliminate the possibility of the death in childbirth thing for those with such access.

>> No.38846869

>>38846833
Keyword "tend to be"

>> No.38846871

>>38846816
by that logic every filthily peasant should be put to the sword because of his potential threat

>> No.38846887

>>38846858
>>38846424
The Exalted feat in question is what is given by a patron, which can, in fact, be a god.

Thus it would be revoked according to the judgment of the god.

Bam.

>> No.38846906

>>38846865
Could someone with a better knowledge of Demigod moms tell me if there are examples of them dying in childbirth? Cause I can't come up with one.
Though I would say that holy sperm is 100% fertile.

>> No.38846912

>>38846854

So let's say a girl goes on a date with a guy, and then later finds out she contracted herpes from him. She calls him up about it an he reveals that he knew all along he had herpes but he didn't tell her because he was afraid she would reject him. Are you saying the guy in this situation is not performing a morally wrong act? How is it an better if it's a prostitute spreading herpes? And don't tell me "oh well maybe she doesn't know" because anyone with common sense will know that if you whore around enough you'll eventually catch the herp.

>> No.38846913
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38846913

>>38846743
An obvious bait but doesn't really oppose anon's logic. Even if you're completely against such things and you see it as disgusting and undignified, neither trait makes it evil. Many diseases, piles of manure etc are disgusting and undignified as well, but they aren't evil. They simply are.

Plus, good point raised, it's not only prositution that's not about procreation - youths sneaking out at night to spend with their loved ones. Adventurers flirt with wenches, bards break hearts and hymens of damsels, regular youths sneak out at night to sleep with their lovers, without wanting to actually have children - one would need to be kind of extremist to call all of it 'evil'

>> No.38846916

>>38846869
Oh sure, but a CG rogue or bard's MO would probably be more to charm someone, not throw cash at them.

Again, assuming post AD&D alignments. AD&D alignments include objectivist/ancaps as CG, and "ends justify the means" villains as LG, so nearly any behavior would work for a good char in AD&D, if justified.

>> No.38846936

>>38846814

Is the Paladin ok with it?

Then there is no problem.

Is the Paladin not ok with it?

There is still no problem, since a Good god wouldn't force people

>>38846816

D&D is way cleaner and less disease-filled than the real world.

>> No.38846947

>>38846906
The sperm is 100% fertile, the woman isn't necessarily going to alter her ovulation cycles unless he so chooses. So that would imply a flat 25% likelihood of pregnancy or thereabouts.

As far as death in childbirth I also have to question how a gal with divine health, divine grace, and laying on of hands is likely to die during it -- just strikes me as plain improbable. Even if he didn't throw her a bone.

All speculation of course.

>> No.38846951
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38846951

>>38846916
This is how I CN merchant class.

>> No.38846953

>>38846871

If a peasant catches plague doing normal, necessary peasant things that is morally different from a prostitute catching plague performing an uncessesary job that does little to edict society and does a lot to spread disease. If you endanger the public's health for profit as opposed to doing it by accident the you are committing an evil act.

>> No.38846958

>>38846912
The morally wrong act isn't the guy wanting to have sex with his lover, but him not being honest about his condition and putting lover's health at risk for the sake of realization of his selfish desire.

It's exactly the fact that he knew and spread herpes because he was horny that made the act evil, not the sex itself. The situation after all could take place even if the guy would also want to impregnate the girl at the same time - and it wouldn't make it any more moral or 'good'.

>> No.38846969

>>38846912

You're talking about a disease that can be cured at every temple. And Good temples wouldn't let people suffer from herpes

>> No.38846973

>>38846913
Probably not evil, but users of people certainly don't deserve to be called good.

>> No.38846975

>>38846814
>9 month boost to divine spellcasting due to bearing godchild

>> No.38846985

>>38846912
First never underestimate human stupidity, woman have been know to give birth and not know that they where pregnant.

Secondly that hardly has anything to do with prostitution since it's a more of a everyday life issue that happens with or with out prostitution.

Thirdly if prostitution where legal then those cases would be dramatically reduce because it's in the prostitute interest to sell a quality product and not something that will scare way here customers. Economics 101.

>> No.38846988

>>38846936
>>38846969
I think these two really ended the argument. In a setting where there is healing magic prostitution is pretty much a mostly clean job (assuming organized brothel women houses, street prostitution may be different).

>> No.38846990

>>38846958

Yeah, OK, maybe in a world with no diseases prostitution isn't evil per se but in practical terms being a prostitute in most pre-modern contexts meant making yourself a vector for disease, which is bad. It's hard to seperate the two because catching herpes eventually becomes a statistical certainty.

>> No.38846991
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38846991

My solution to the whole "Code of Conduct" shit was to disallow the Paladin PC class and say that historically there were only 9 paladins about 700 years ago who crusaded, each one was a legendary hero who reformed the land, but all had mortal failings save for the the First and Foremost guy.

Five of the major noble houses are direct descendants of these paladins so obviously they weren't chaste, heck some of them weren't even Good. Just like how in real history most rulers were just military conquerors who justified their actions by Might-Makes-Right.

Running a game based on real anthropology salvages a lot of the arbitrary hasbro-tier philosophy that cripples bog-standard D&D.

>> No.38847000

>>38846953
If a prostitute spreads the plague wilingly without worry for her clients, it's evil. If she does it for survival with absolutely no alternatives and she's not happy because of how it affects others - it's still actually shitty but many systems would label her 'neutral'. If she's not aware of her condition and her clients use her services no matter aware of the risks of spreading any conditions or not, but they're unaware of having it themselves - all parties involved are neutral. If they have sex with her to spread the bug around, they're on a highway to become succesful Nurgle followers (evil).

>> No.38847003

>>38846973

What if it's a mutual business relationship ?

Paying someone for sex is not using them if they voluntarily choose this profession.

>> No.38847008

>>38846360
Nothing. Because paladins are not bound by oaths or gods.

>> No.38847015
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38847015

>>38846953
heh uncessesary heh

if that job wasn't unnecessary then it wouldn't we the oldest fucking profession on the planet.

even fucking chimpanzees are know to have prostitution in their social structure

>> No.38847028

>>38846360

Frankly, I'm more uncomfortable with that Prestige Class that allowed a girl to be the purest waifu ever (Complete with unicorn companion) as long as she remained a virgin. Like, what would happened if she was raped? Does she seriously lose ALL her prestige class levels from that?

>> No.38847029

>>38846947
>So that would imply a flat 25% likelihood of pregnancy or thereabouts.

Higher than that if god-sperm can survive for her whole cycle, just waiting until an egg ripens.

>> No.38847033

>>38846436
>ancient tumblr memes

>> No.38847036

>>38846991
I once ran a low fantasy setting where the founding myth was pretty much a Song of Roland with magic. The PCs claimed that a medieval society would never have such cliche characters.
>Mfw I study history and they are a bunch of IT and physics students.

>> No.38847037

>>38846988

Thanks!

>>38847000

D&D settings have ways to heal pretty much any disease, available in most small towns and in everything bigger.

>> No.38847047

>>38846969
>>38846988

It really depends I the setting. Not every setting is DnD 3.5 where healers exist in every temple and every lord has a court wizard. In some settings it's a lot rarer.

>>38846985

Of course, I forgot all about the invisible hand! This must be why prostitution has always historically been free from disease, because economics! Never mind that in the real world prostitutes are often prime vectors for disease, they must have never read the Wealth of Nations!

>> No.38847057

>>38847028
I think Beloved of Valerian PrC specified willing intercourse.

>> No.38847066

>>38847047

I thought it was mostly gay people who were vectors for STDs.

>> No.38847070

>>38846906
Look at ancient Western cultures and I'll think you'll find more. Also, the oldest story written has epic heros with dead moms.

>> No.38847071

>>38846688
>And Mario
Hail Mario, full of WA-HOO.
Miyamoto is with thee.
Blessed art thou among plumbers,
and blessed is the power up of thy womb,
Jesus.
Holy Mario, Mother of God,
pray for us Goombas,
now and at the hour of our stomp.
Amen.

>> No.38847072

>>38847047
I said IF IT WHERE A LEGAL ACCEPTED PROFESSION then the prostitutes would be able to take better care

>> No.38847083

>>38847028
Was that the unicorn one? Yeah, she lost everything if she was raped, or slept with her true love or anything. I think there was even something about how the unicorn god might even choose one to sleep with, and she was disqualified from the class after that.

>> No.38847093

>>38847066
No. Gay men are the primary vector for AIDS, and that margin is slim. Men in general are the AIDS bearers. Basically everyone has the herp, and spread it to each other through things like childbirth and kissing in bars. You'd have to be completely ignorant to think that prostitution was an overall major vector for STI.

>> No.38847094

>>38847072

They would still get herpes because a condom doesn't protect you from herpes and they could contact it from someone who is not having a visible breakout but is still contagious. How do you defend against that?

>> No.38847103

>>38846360
we all know that Jesus was born from a virgin even though maria slept with God,
from that we can determine that having sex with a god(dess) doesn't count.

>> No.38847106
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38847106

>>38846360
Three ways to look at it, really. One, a goddess wouldn't ask a paladin of hers who's taken that oath to sleep with her. Is she an evil god or something? Two, if she's a goddess can the divines not release a paladin from their oath? Three, is it really breaking your oath? Are they breaking it if its with their patron. Is the patron doing this as a reward for their service? Are they just doing it for procreation, leaving there to be no indulgence in the process? There's lots of things to consider.

>> No.38847107

>>38847094
In a fantasy setting? Remove Disease. Every temple should have someone that can cast it.

>> No.38847115

>>38847003
The "dignity" clause in the good alignment is just as important and lets not pretend voluntary prostitutes are able to keep their dignity. This, of course, assumes you are insane and want to salvage all the 3.x perspectives on good, including BoED.

I would not personally believe someone was good if they use prostitutes or were a prostitute, though. It shows a willingness to sell your own dignity, in exchange to not have to get into a real job or a real relationship.

Ethical prostitutes and ethical johns are pretty much what the Chaotic Neutral alignment is there for -- someone who won't do evil, but still has issues with basic levels of treating people as people, instead of ATMs or sex toys.

And again, all of this goes out the door when you're talking about AD&D -- freedom at all costs, economic and otherwise, fits AD&D cg types perfectly. Afterall, there you have a system where you really don't want to ever change alignment, so that way, you don't hem people in.

>> No.38847123

>>38847083
>the unicorn god might even choose one to sleep with

One hopes he at least tells her whats going to happen.

Or does she just wake up one night with the unicorn god standing over her with his horse dick in her face?

>> No.38847135

>>38847094
Magic bruh, magic!

if there isn't magic the conventions methods,
you should know civilizations like Romans where fairly good at combating that sort of thing

>> No.38847137

>>38846906
>>38847070

The Demigods' mom almost never died from childbirth. They sometime died because of other circumstences , like "asking their divine lover to show their true form".

>> No.38847140

>>38847029
Well... yes.

If you wanted to be extra silly, you could calculate how many times Zeus fucked people vs how many times he got them pregnant. Not a very rigorous test, of course.

Yeah it does seem semi stupid to think divine sperm wouldn't greatly outlast mortal sperm, but super divine fertility times immortal demigods implies lots of demigods.

>> No.38847155

>>38847137
Being Dionysus is suffering. No wonder he has drinking problems.

>> No.38847165

>>38847135

The Romans made do with what they could, but sticking a lemon peel up your vagina to act as a diaphragm is a far cry from responsible safe sex and will not protect you from most forms of VD.

>> No.38847173

>>38847106
Well we have given two possible reasons for why she wants it.
1) she needs a child for reasons
2) she fell in love with her servant
Both cases are not evil reasons thus she is not evil.

>> No.38847176
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38847176

>>38847028
Reverse consensual position is specifically okay. Being a solo female adventurer, or joining the military, is a good way to get your vitamin D while on the vow of chastity.

>> No.38847182

>>38847036
I know right, Medieval stories are the archetypical plotlines we take completely for granted today. Modern sensibilities are so used to plot twists and cynicism that people can't even handle "Marry the princess" as a reward.
I've tried to stress how a Medieval society would be so banal and dreary that risking your life on an "adventure " would be a welcome respite.

>> No.38847188

>>38846743
>>38846816
>>38846953

This is somewhat relevant and interesting article
https://theumlaut.com/2013/07/02/the-economics-of-slut-shaming/

>> No.38847189

>>38847173
>>38847106
Well, since exalted feats are supernatural gifts withdrawn by the patron if they fuck up, presumably the goddess would grant him lenience.

>> No.38847193

>>38846360
>''Good night Paladin''
>Good night Goddess.''
>zzZZZzzzZZZzzz

I don't see the problem here...?

>> No.38847219
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38847219

>>38847123
I think they know going into the class. Possibly even hope for, since it proves favor, but yeah, expected to retire after that, probably take care of a little unicorn satyr looking kid or something.

>> No.38847243

>>38847115

Prostitution is selling sex, not dignity. It doesn't have to be an humiliating experience.

>> No.38847247
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38847247

>>38847083

>> No.38847251

>>38847165
it is quite a common misconception that if some society lacks technology that it can not combat problems like that, they had their ways and they where less effective in most cases but the weren't ineffective

but anyway your argument is mute since you know MAGIC

>> No.38847252

>>38847219
I am tempted to run this as a straight special snowflake char in a one shot campaign. My DM is often cool if we do this kind of shit and includes it quite well.

>> No.38847254

>>38846951
>Giving to others
Even if you're not going out of your way to check what they do with it, once you start throwing it to everyone you're close to CG anon.

>> No.38847266

>>38847155

Nah, he took it pretty well.

>> No.38847279

>>38847247
I remember that doujin!

>> No.38847288
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38847288

>>38847188
Brilliant article. Women definitely seem to have the most aggressive reaction to "sluts" (til I moved in with my wife I never heard that word, now calling women sluts on TV and such makes my wife laugh every time) and it makes sense.

I can't say I've ever known groups of guys to ever complain at the idea of promiscuous women. I'm sure it happens, but my mind's eye always conjures up images of buckle hats.

>> No.38847289

>>38846743
bah its the attempt to suppress prostitution that is disgusting, undignified and evil, its breeds human trafficking, forced labor, forced chemical dependency and assault. legalize, regulate, tax.

>> No.38847292

>>38847254

Well he is also presumably employs slave labour and exploits his own people (and women), not really "good" traits.

>>38847266

yeah, I think he was comparatively faithful to Ariadne too, right?

>> No.38847295

>>38847103
I think you're misinterpreting "The Holy Spirit will come upon you."

>> No.38847300

>>38846598
If you're a paladin of the sex god, you wouldn't have taken a vow of chastity. Paladins aren't lawful stupid, they're lawful awesome.

>> No.38847313
File: 110 KB, 556x347, mustnot.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38847313

Better question here is:
What if you have a daughter who wants you and your goddessfu wants you to cum inside of her?
What then?

>> No.38847314
File: 54 KB, 315x320, lewd.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38847314

>>38847247

>> No.38847318

>>38847300
>Wait, so you are a paladin of a sex god, yet chaste?
>Yeah, should have read the small print. It's all about immeasurable rewards in the afterlife, but I have to stay chaste in this life.

>> No.38847323

>>38847251

First of all it's moot, not mute. And second of all effectiveness is everything when dealing with public health threats. There's a reason it's considered irresponsible to rely on pulling out versus condoms to combat STI and that's because one is 98% effective and one is less than 98% effective. I never said using a lemon peel was ineffective just that it's really not effective enough to be considered a responsible measure. And again, there are settings, or even societies within normal DnD settings, where healers are not readily available.

>> No.38847330

>>38847313
Okay, NOW we have entered magical realm territory.

>> No.38847338

>>38846360
>asked

Which means he's free to refuse. A good-aligned goddess would not rape one of her paladins, so she will respect his decision if he says no.

>> No.38847344

>>38846360
Well if said god put forth the chastity thing it's either a test or it's all right for dem to fug.

>> No.38847345

Even if a Paladin does worship a deity, the primary allegiance of any paladin order is to the very essences of Law and Goodness, and it is in the name of these that they sworn their oath. If he breaks his oath, he falls. It doesn't matter if the goddess is the one who enticed him to break his oath because his goddess wasn't the one he swore the oath to.

Even a Paladin acting under magical duress will fall upon breaking the oath. In this case, they can go on a arduous and complicated quest for redemption, but they still fall.

>> No.38847346

>>38847313
Isn't incest traditionally considered Evil or Chaotic or something? I have my doubts a paladin's goddess would ever want that and that a paladin can even do it.

>> No.38847347

>>38846360
1. If a deity did not believe sex to be immoral, then their Paladins would not take an Oath of Chastity
2. Baring that, the reason monks etc remain chast is so they can devote all their attention to their deity.
3. A (good) god/goddess wouldn't be fucking stupid enough to try to sleep with a devout follower who was chast for any other reason other than the one listed in 2.

>> No.38847348

>>38847243
Selling your sex is inherently dignity, hence why the majority of willing (habitual) prostitutes are mentally disturbed homeless people. Turns out acting like a bad person tends to make you become one.

>> No.38847349

>>38846360
Unless she releases you from your oath then no, it's a test

>> No.38847358

>>38847318
>Well, we also got this whole book of things that "doesn't count". Pretty clever stuff and everything is complete with pictures. Wanna try some?
>You mean reading it?
>I know what I said.

>> No.38847362
File: 34 KB, 336x512, blackguard.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38847362

>>38847346
>later
"Huh? What do you mean, I'm not a real paladin? Then where'd I get this here death sword, KNAVE?"

>> No.38847364

>>38846360
Generally oaths like this are less 'no fucking' than 'no woman shall distract me from service to my deity'. The important thing isn't that you're not having sex, it's that worldly desires are not leading you astray from your devoted path.

So, fucking should commence.

>> No.38847379

>>38846462
>Gorgeous divine goddess wants your D
>Think about saying no
GODDAMN dude! Divine intervention is saving you from being a kissless, ever-virgin faggot and you think about refusing???

>> No.38847400

Is it me or is everyone assuming that chastity is the same thing as celibacy?

Isn't chastity the virtue of not being a sexual maniac and saving yourself for your future wife/husband?

>> No.38847401

>>38847379
He wants to change his class from paladin to wizard once he turn 30.

>> No.38847408

>>38847348
It's more likely to go the other way - as in mentally disturbed homeless people start to sell sex because they have nothing else to offer. So by the time they get to it, there isn't much dignity left to begin with.

>> No.38847426

>>38847252
Do it and tell us about it later

>> No.38847432

>>38847348

I don't see what's so undignified into selling sex.

>> No.38847445

>>38847348
>>38847408
>>38847243
>>38847003
Shouldn't it be more degrading to never get paid for your services? If you fuck people without getting paid for it, that shows how much you value yourself.

>> No.38847446

>>38847401
Well then he could be a cleric instead.

>> No.38847455

>>38847408
I dunno, most of the hobos in town are pretty old, whereas all of the prostitutes in town I've seen looked at least two decades younger.

Its also pretty easy to see why a person short on morality and self respect is going to go for the free lunch of a job that's a hell of a lot easier than, say, flipping burgers or being a waitress. All you have to give up is your dignity.

>> No.38847461

>>38846814
i would be more worried about the child dying in birth thats an epic levl encounter created right there

>> No.38847478

>>38847432
How many prostitutes have you met?

>> No.38847480

>>38847400

No, both are near-completly synonymous if they're taken as oath. Celibacy just include the "can't marry" condition.

>> No.38847482

>>38847432
It's the basic human need for intimacy but done in a way that doesn't prompt fulfilling relationships.

>> No.38847505

>>38847432
Depends on the conditions? I can see where being a pimped out crack-whore has no dignity, but there are also high class sorts with a lot of say in who their clients are, what they will or won't do and how/when to meet. Some Johns aren't even hiring them because they need to pay to get laid, they pay because it's a business arrangement and they trust the hooker to not get emotionally attached.

>> No.38847513

>>38847323
You are aware that things like condoms where actually a thing 2000+ years ago

Also your argument that prostitution is inherently EVIL because it is marginally greater public health risk makes no sense. Even if people did die as a consequences of this their deaths are localized and to low to count as any statistical indicator. You are basically declaring that a bathtub is evil because some slipped and broke his neck.

No major epidemic was a STD in human history and they simply don't offer that level of a threat to the society.

>> No.38847525

>>38847028
i dont think rape counts

still unicorn god is a possessive arsehole

>> No.38847532

>>38847480
So what's the point of marrying if chastity is the same as celibacy as a vow?

Seriously, I've never heard that a vow of chastity means "no sex ever". Just a lot less sex than average.

>> No.38847534

>>38847505
After some amount of $ per hour a hooker stops being a hooker and starts being a night lady.

>> No.38847555

>>38847445
Well, fucking is often exchanged on barter basis, fuck for fuck, if you will. So not getting money involved at all is actually pretty common. Obviously there are some misunderstandings where one side expects barter while the other monetary comensation, but that's what you get with poorly defined market rules and no written contract.

As for your question in general - yeah, that's pretty low blow, but it happens. I wouldn't really call it degrading unless it becomes a trend. Even seemingly reliable employer can crash nad burn in bankrupcy along with your last salary.

>> No.38847563

>>38847534
Still the same concept. And there are legal brothels some places, where the woman have a lot more rights than what might be assumed about them.

>> No.38847564

>>38847193
oh god my sides

thanks anon i needed that

>> No.38847577

>>38847513

You don't have to spread a mortal disease for it to be an evil act. Giving someone an annoying disease like herpes or mono because you were dishonest counts as evil, IMO. Also, AIDS is a major epidemic and it's an STD, so you're wrong .

>> No.38847607

>>38846360

He must castrate himself and then sleep with her.

Or alternatively: It doesn't count if it's in the butt.

>> No.38847610

>>38847577
>Also, AIDS is a major epidemic and it's an STD, so you're wrong .

Uh, no. Free market, bitch.

>> No.38847613

>>38847455
>I dunno, most of the hobos in town are pretty old, whereas all of the prostitutes in town I've seen looked at least two decades younger.
It's called make-up, most women do it to some extent. My boss (I'm office clerk) is nearly twice my age and she looks younger than my.

>Its also pretty easy to see why a person short on morality and self respect is going to go for the free lunch of a job that's a hell of a lot easier than, say, flipping burgers or being a waitress. All you have to give up is your dignity.
Yeah, basically this.

>> No.38847614

>>38847577
AIDS is not an epidemic and it does not threaten our civilization!!

>> No.38847619

>>38847610

How does the free market negate the fact that AIDS is a serious epidemic?

>> No.38847630

>>38847619
because more people die from Aspirin yearly than from AIDS

>> No.38847635

>>38847614

>"HIV/ AIDS is a global pandemic."
-Wikipedia

>> No.38847636

>>38847613
>It's called make-up, most women do it to some extent. My boss (I'm office clerk) is nearly twice my age and she looks younger than my.

Okay, fair enough. I suppose male hobos also have to worry about backpacking around choice personal belongings, just like prostitutes.

>> No.38847637

>>38847577
aids is probably the worst example to use its one of the most common stds that is also spread other ways

you know fucking needles and shit

>> No.38847643

>>38847619
and today the disease it self is successfully combated

>> No.38847648

>>38847630
i dont know anti prostitute anon is a fagot but that sounds a bit farfetched to me

>> No.38847652

>>38847630
That doesn't make it not an epidemic. I'm pretty sure it's referred to as such by many global health organizations including the WHO, aspirin deaths notwithstanding.

>> No.38847655

>>38847635
wow, everything there must be true

>> No.38847656

But my paladin is in love with some snake goddess does this means he have to marry them both one day

>> No.38847657

>>38846743
Bravo anon. Somehow such low quality bait derailed this thread.

>> No.38847669

>>38847655
wikipedia is a pretty reliable source and they are very careful at providing evidence for there statements

>> No.38847671

>>38847432
In a society like ours where the basic structure of public morality is derived from a Jewish/Christian foundation, prostitution is inherently undignified because it is a sin.

A prostitute is consciously sinning in order to make money, and so is degrading her social and moral status in the eyes of the community.

>> No.38847673

>>38847619
But its not a serious problem. I'll break it down for you since you can't understand economics:

1. People are willing to pay more for prostitutes that will not cause them to die or get life threatening complications.

If 1=T, then the amount of prostitutes who have diseases will gradually be winnowed away because nobody pays for them, eventually there are no more diseased prostitutes because the others have been winnowed away for lack of demand and other prostitutes realize "Hey, I should avoid getting STDs!"

If 1=F, then eventually everyone who employs the AIDS hookers, and the hookers themselves, die. But 1 is far more likely, because, again, the free market works.

Either way, its inevitable that there will be no more AIDS prostitutes anymore.

>> No.38847685

>>38847673
makes sense

>> No.38847687

>>38847671

What are you talking about man? Jesus was pretty okay with whores.

>> No.38847689

>>38847643

It's still a global pandemic with uncontrolled growth in several countries.

>>38847637
Sex is the main form of transmission, and I don't really see how the fact that needles can spread AIDS obviates the fact that it's a global pandemic that has had serious effects on society.

>> No.38847699

>>38847379
Honestly you're the one who seems desperate.

>> No.38847703

>>38847689
yeah but your a fagot

>> No.38847708

>>38847673

The free market only works if consumers and sellers have adequate information; people don't always know they have HIV.

>> No.38847720

>>38847708
Then they should get tested. I don't see why I have to explain this shit.

>> No.38847725

>>38847657

It was a lousy thread from the start.

>> No.38847739

>>38847720

In a perfect world everyone would get tested and your model would work, and I I had wheels I'd be a wagon.

>> No.38847741
File: 104 KB, 600x450, ce ne est pas lutter à pizza.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38847741

>>38846424
Then he jerks off into a cup for her, much like any DM that tries to force this situation will be jerking off to it as soon as everyone's left. Or maybe he won't even wait that long.

>> No.38847744

>>38847689
>a global pandemic with uncontrolled growth in several countries.
At this point it's only truly uncontrolled in countires nobody cares for anyway (aka most of Africa)

>> No.38847750

>>38847648
>>38847669
fuck, aspirin yearly kills half a million while for 2014 aids killed 1.2 million so I guess a am wrong

still this can't be compared with a disease that kills 1/3 of a population

>> No.38847777

>>38847739
That's all I'm saying.

>> No.38847786

>>38847750

Nobody said it was the bubonic plague, just that it was a major epidemic, which it is according to several sources.

>> No.38847793
File: 153 KB, 595x504, reaction image all fags.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38847793

>>38847247
This comic was significantly weirder than I expected

>> No.38847803

>>38847793
It was terrible for not having the unitaur impregnate her.

>> No.38847819
File: 51 KB, 753x473, 1392844505145.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38847819

The prohibition on hookers is bad as same way war on drugs is bad, sooner we legalize it the sooner we'll be better of

Freedom for hookers!! oh and for hooker-dudes ofc, no reason to be gender insensitive!

>> No.38847825

>>38847744
That you do not care for them doesn't mean nobody does. It got out of the African continent before and it will again unless we stomp it out.

>> No.38847847

>>38847786
let me be skeptical about that, I don't trust no one when it comes to epidemic since they declared N1H1 an epidemic

>> No.38847872

>>38847825
>It got out of the African continent before and it will again unless we stomp it out.
True, that's a real danger. But we don't need to cure it there, just isolating it will do. It worked for malaria, plague, and couple others nasty stuff.

>> No.38847896

>>38847872
and all those priest telling people that condoms are evil aren't really helping....

>> No.38847902

>>38846360
a stupid magical realm is born.

>> No.38847917

>>38847896

But it's the truth.

>> No.38847935

>>38847917
yeah they are evil little STD blockers and that's why I use them

>> No.38847970

>>38847896
If we're talking Africa, I don't think they really make difference. Even if african people believed in benefits of condoms, they wouldn't use them all the time, simply because they cannont be bothered or there's not enough supply. So the diseased would still spread, people would just take week to get infected instead of single day.
This is more of an issue in strongly religious 1st and 2nd world countries, where it can make the difference.

African solution needs more complex and wide-scale approach. Any initiative of single group with only local or selective impact will be change nothing in grand scale of things.

>> No.38848028

>>38846360
Interesting. This hypothetical is quite similar of what happened to Cassandra, daughter of Priamus, priestess of Apollo.

All priestesses of Apollo where supposed to keep their chastity, but the god himself felt lust for his follower and demanded to lay in bed with her. When she repelled him, keeping faith to her oath, Apollo cursed her with the hability of seeing clearly into the future but never being able to convince people around her of its truth.

In this case, the god Apollo is tipically greek, in the sense that he is jealous and has no remorse. If we change him for a deity that is good in the christian sense, i. e. would not do something "unfair", which is expected of a deity that has paladin followers, the outcome can be completely different.

The deity would need a fair reason to ask this, and it would be the devout's obligation to do so. If he did, the oath is broken and he can't be a paladin anymore: it would be unfair for the goddess to return him to his condition of paladin, since she was accomplice of the violation. He would continue to be a devout follower, but not a paladin anymore. She could choose to promote him to semi-god because of that.

If he did not, the unobedience to the goddess would also make him punishable, but of expulsion from the faith. Hence he would be not a paladin anymore either.

There is no win-win situation, and that's what is fun about it.

>> No.38848077

>>38846912
>So let's say a girl goes on a date with a guy, and then later finds out she contracted herpes from him
Then she had it coming for having sex on the first date like a tramp

>> No.38848078

>>38848028

>Apollo cursed her with the hability of seeing clearly into the future but never being able to convince people around her of its truth.

More like A/pol/lo, right ?

>> No.38848118

>>38848028

>There is no win-win situation
And that is why That GM's take these sort of situations to fuck with the poor guy who just wants to play a paladin for once without this shit.

>>38848078
heheh good one

>> No.38848230

>>38848028

Either way he'd still be a paladin, as "disobeying your god" isn't against his code of conduct anymore than it is against the druid's code of conduct: what would be debatably lost is the vow of celibacy. The priestess thing sounds more like the Geas/Quest effect.

>> No.38848249

>>38848118

It's funny that even with those sort of GM's that it's easier to get away with playing a paladin by just being a Lawful Good cleric built for melee and acting in all instances the way you'd act if you had actually written the word paladin there instead. I've always wondered what it is about that specific class that seems to set them off.

>> No.38848297

Remind her of your oath. If she gives you permission regardless, then serve her loyally and with the fervor of true righteousness.

>> No.38848329

>>38847455
>All you have to give up is your dignity
But you have to do that anyway if you want to flip burgers or serve drinks or scan clothes. The service industry is hell.

>> No.38848367

>>38848329
It costs you your patience, but it doesn't make you become a colder, more superficial person. That's what the loss of dignity from becoming a prostitute means.

>> No.38848411

>>38848118
Personally, I think these kind of problems are what makes RPGs interesting. I don't see the point of playing a Paladin if you don't have to make hard choices.

>> No.38848430

>>38846529
Gr8 b8 m8

though you do have me interested in the moral implications of a goddess aborting a baby when that goddess is one of the benchmarks of good in that world to begin with.

>> No.38848434

>>38848411
A paladins life should be about "do I save the girl or do I save the village" or "My life or the life of a dozen people I don't know", not some shitty sexercise riddle

>> No.38848480

>>38848434
I think any of these situations work if the DM can narrate and the players can play. It seems now to me that you simply got yourself a shitty DM...

"An idea is not responsible for the people who hold it" - John Cleese

>> No.38848513

>>38846912
>implying every fantasy world has "the herp"

>> No.38848523

>>38848230
a) I don't know if you are discussing the hypothetical of him doing it or not doing it

b) Why the lost of the vow yould be debatable?

>> No.38848531

>>38848480
john cleese isalso an insufferable cunt nobody would want to play a campaign with. So what?
And nothing in that sentence says anything about my DM, or even if i have one.

Stop projecting and go enjoy a healthy lunch with your family.

>> No.38848535

>>38846360

He says no.

That's what an oath is.

>> No.38848571

>>38848531
u mad

>> No.38848584

>>38848480
"Being at risk because you have a deity bullying you despite you not having class features depending on a deity" isn't an idea that sucks only if you have a shitty DM, its a generally sucky idea.

Gods going out of their way to be dicks to their own followers who get nothing but grief in exchange for being stupid enough to follow them really is not a poor, mistreated idea that needs the right storyteller to flourish, but more of an exercise in shitdark storytelling.

>> No.38848616

>>38846518
>The reason I ask is because it happened to me a few years back and I refused cause my Paladin argued that while she was free to free him of his oath he considered the oath part of his being and thus would not act on it. She was a bit pissed as Greek style gods usually are when puny humans dare to rebel (she was an Athena equivalent), but in the end she just let him be, no falling or anything.
This is why you shouldn't mix classical polytheism and not-medieval settings together.

>> No.38848621

>>38846360
So, Pallybro pledged an oath of chasity to the Goddess that is now asking for sex?
There is no way in hell this is not a test.
She is testing the faith of her strongest champion.
I mean, why would a god demand an oath if they do not want the person to follow it?
And if it is not her, than a succubus or equally as evil seductress is using his faith against him.

So deny her three times, then cast smite evil. If it is her, she will be unharmed and you will pass the test.
If she is in fact a succubus, then she'll burn in holy fire.

>> No.38848654
File: 63 KB, 1876x206, the one thing the free market has fixed.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38848654

>>38846743
easy, it allows the price of pussy to be set to a currency and thus forces normal women to behave like humans in order to attract a male, because they can't rely on the fact that they have a vagina anymore.

>> No.38848674

>>38848367
Have you ever been to toys r us?

>> No.38848690

>>38846571
Procreation is supposed to be pleasurable, jackass.
The whole point of sex, from the perspective of benefitting society, is to make babbies within an environment that allows them to grow up into wholesome people, AND grow bonds between the parents.
Seriously, what makes you feel closer to a woman than having extremely good sex and the emotionally fulfilling relationship that leads up to it?
I'd like to know.
Het-only perspective, admittedly, and I' not willing to stand the shitstorm that religions have on the matter, even thought I am in fact religious.

>> No.38848696

>>38848523

1. The paladin isn't a guy dependent on fucking/not fucking people for power, any more than the wizard is. Yes, a god could possibly drain his powers away out of pure insane Olympian spite, but it has nothing to do with any fallworthy conditions.
2. It depends on the spirit the vow was sworn in, whether its willing and whether the deity chooses to revoke it. Being threatened into sex by a godlike being is not consensual sex, and you would not lose the vow of celibacy for doing so.

In D&D terms what you're thinking of is a geas/quest, or mark of justice, or what not, an effect that, without giving anything in return, punishes you if you break a possibly literalistic set of behavior.

>> No.38848714

>>38848621
It may be a test, or it may be something that she needs (e. g. she needs a son to combat a maleficent child-deity that was born in hell).
Also, she may have asked for the oath before needing a child. In polytheist theology deities have no control over destiny, so she may not know it inb4

>> No.38848763

>>38848714
So maybe she does need a child.
I still stick to my plan.
As a smite evil will do her no harm, and she will understand and explain her dilemma.
With prelimaries out of the way, I will happily oblige my goddess.

>> No.38848779

Clearly the Paladin goes to /tg/ and shitposts.

>> No.38848790

>>38848674
No, but I've worked some gross/tedious jobs. None caused me to have my personality degraded, since doing gross and tedious toil is not something wholesome that is being cheapened, but something that is normally done for labor to be done for labor.

>> No.38848807

>>38848763
Striking a goddess probably isn't going to make her feel good.

>> No.38848897

She clearly wants him to give her head. Doesn't break his oath, but still lets her enjoy the pleasures of her loyal champion. So, what kind of Paladin are you? Get down there and eat her like its a sacrament, because it actually is.

>> No.38848914

>>38848897
L...Lewd.
But I approve.

>> No.38848989

>>38847295
misinterpreting holy scripture for your own gain sounds like religion to me

>> No.38849158

>>38846360
Well, he's fucked either way.

>> No.38849466

There's something about religious celibacy that may help us laborate this situation.

The relation between purity and holyness is as ancient as any patriarchal religion. The hebrews, for example, started to think about purity in their rituals concearning the tabernacle and the holy items in it that needed to be preserved. People needed to cleanse themselves before entering the tent/touching the items, but the idea of purity started to get more and more refined and abstract, leading to a different understanding of the relations within the tribe. Men would not touch meat or women in their period when in preparation to entering the tabernacle. This way they would avoid staining the holy place with blood. Places where a woman in her period have sit were also considered impure and had to be ritually purified (cf. Leviticus 15). Progressively menstruation itself became associated with evil. And as men don't menstruate, they may very well be considered better than women: this helps to justify the exclusivity of male priests and reinforce the creed. (cont)

>> No.38849516

>>38846360
Chastity is distinct from Celibacy, so he's fine.

>> No.38849523

>>38849466
A similar process happened in roman and greek societies (cf. NIETZSCHE, Genealogy of Morals, chapter 1) and in medieval christianity, which is a mixture of the tree. Many monastic orders of knighthood prohibited knights not only of laying in bed with women, but of touching them at all (even female animals in some cases). The psychological (unconscious) supposition behind it is that if a man that hasn't touched blood is prepared to enter a holy place (and is therefore pious), a man that has no sexuality at all in his live is even more pious and saint.

Of course the chivalry novels have a different version of the story: in them, knights (or paladins, if you wish) where pious men dedicated to their celibacy who would always fall in love with an (also pious) virgin and put his faith to test. It must be understood that the very point of such novels is to tell stories of knights that broke their vows; they are the use of the genre "history of saints" as a way of justifying pornographical and violent narratives, that were forbidden.

>> No.38849600

>>38849466
>>38849523
That's one possible interpretation.

Another is that celibate priesthoods arose because then priests leave their stuff to the temple/church, not to their nonexistent descendents.

Those religious denominations tend to thrive to some degree because they have more resources allocated to them.

>> No.38849618

>>38849516
The paladin will have to marry the goddess, though, I assume? That could still be a problem if he had other plans regarding romance. Hometown sweetheart or courtly love or whatever.

>> No.38849635

>>38849600
To me it seems like an a posteriori explanation. Celibacy is much older than organized religion.

>> No.38849643

>>38849618
Marriage to a goddess is a significantly better option than being said goddess' boytoy, so go for it.

Besides, if he's a paladin then ostensibly he's already at least as devoted to his goddess than a husband would be to his wife.

>> No.38849654

One thing is still unclear to me: why HIM of all people?

>> No.38849679

>>38846360
She's obviously a demon and you should slay the shit out of her ass.

>> No.38850000

>>38849635
I should say "survived" rather than "arose." I find most theories of celibacy, especially those of the guy I was responded to, to be specious.

>Celibacy is much older than organized religion.

Yes, but unfortunately, there is the whole absurdity of trying to equate catholic celibacy (which was the textbook definition of organized religion) to OT anti-menstruation rules (when they sure didn't believe in celibacy) under some basis of "girls suck" when most examples of older vows of celibacy feature in belief systems that do indeed have female divine beings (for example, the whole priestesses of Apollo thing is part of a belief system teeming with goddesses).

tl;dr The Christians sure didn't have widespread belief in menstruation being the sign of evil, and the OT Israelites didn't practice celibacy..

>> No.38850062

>>38847028
Which one was that?

>> No.38850074

>>38850000
it seems to me that the argument is that, over time, celibacy became influenced by purity laws, not that they are all the same. If you try to see religion as a historical process you may understand.

>> No.38850108

>>38850062
>The beloved of Valarian (also called Valarian’s beloved) are women who have foresworn the love of mortals to dedicate
themselves entirely to the unicorn deity Valarian, thus fostering a close bond
with unicorns.

>> No.38850220

>>38850074
>If you try to see religion as a historical process you may understand.

I understand fully, but as soon as someone brings up "patriarchal religion" and tries to equate male celibacy to viewing women as inferior, while silently sneaking past female celibacy without comment, it seems more a case of beginning with the explanation ("patriarchal religion") and then lumping together as much stuff to justify it.

Understanding does not imply agreement.

>> No.38850427

>>38850220
So it seems to me that the word "patriarchal" derailed your understanding of the issue and started the whole anti-sjw rage; well, that's unfortunate. The abrahamic religions are (of course) patriarchal, in the sense that the positions of power were and are held by man. That's simply a fact. Suppose that such a fact have no consequence on the organization of society, and more specifically of sexuality, is absurd. What I did was try to elocubrate what such a consequence would be.

The supposition that because I haven't mentioned female celibacy my theoretical approach can't handle the question is also unfortunate. There were no reason for me to write about female celibacy if the question I was trying to debate concearned male celibacy only. You supposed something that is not in front of you doesn't exist: I think that alone disqualify you from debating religion.

>> No.38850518

>>38847071
Amen.

>> No.38850624

>>38850220
one thing that you did twice that gets to my nerves is that whole acusation of "equating" thing. There's no equation in historical understanding, period. If you think people are equating things you have not understood what they meant.

>> No.38851559

>>38846518
>Greek style gods
you've already lost. it literally doesn't matter what your response is, you've already lost

>> No.38852331

>>38846814
Wouldn't make a difference to me. If you swear an oath of obedience to your god, and said god appears before you and says, "Let's fuck" the only appropriate response is "How Long?". A Chaotic character could maybe get away with an "I'm not in the mood", but if you're a paladin, you should be willing to murder a baby should your God/dess command it. You should damn well be willing to help make one.

>> No.38852380

>>38846858
Wouldn't it cause the paladin in question's image of his god to be shattered then if it turned out she needed him to fuck her, causing him to lose power?

>> No.38852891

>>38847313
If it were my character?.. I'd fall. Unless incest is totally okay in that culture and my daughter were ok with it, I'd tell my god I'm not cut out to be their paladin.

>> No.38852915

>>38852891
>your goddessfu wants you to cum inside of her
Don't worry, you'll be fine.

>> No.38852931

>>38847455
>Prostitution
>Free lunch of a job

It's like you've never bought a talk job.

>> No.38853049

>>38848367
Could it be that the prostitutes you met were colder, more superficial people because they were at work?

>> No.38853093

>>38848531
"Go enjoy a healthy lunch with your family" is my new "fuck off". Thank you Anon.

>> No.38853178

>>38848621
If I was a god with female paladins, I'd give them the option of vowing chastity, "wives of the Emperor" style. I'd still expect them to fuck me if I decided I fancied one, and I would want her to not fall from the experience. Now why should it be different if it was a Goddess creating her own magical realm out of her church?

I mean, I agree with the whole "smite evil to check for succubi" thing, that's just common sense. But if your oath is not worded in such a way that fucking your god is acceptable, it was probably mistranslated when it went from Celestial to Common. Unless it's a virgin god/dess, in which case you know it's an imposter anyway.

>> No.38853278

>>38846360
A vow of chastity is a vow against extramarital sex (a vow of celibacy would be no sex). She/He asks the Goddess to marry him/her, which is like a Paladin's ultimate dream. Easiest solution ever.

>> No.38853335

>>38849466
This is probably religion reacting to nature, actually. Celibacy alters the male endocrine system, among other things increasing testosterone (it does the opposite for women, which is probably why male-dominated religions are more into celibacy). A man who's been celibate for a while can pray for days without getting distracted and not care about 'earthly' matters all that much - Celibate nuns, by contrast, seemingly never lose the urge to fuck.

>> No.38853338

>>38853178
>implying god/ddesses have to be non-virgins

>> No.38853364

>>38853338
How is he implying that? He has a clause there at the end specifically for the ones that are virgins.

>> No.38853385

>>38853364
I misread what he wrote, I guess.

>> No.38853456
File: 108 KB, 1280x720, KnightJimProfit.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38853456

>>38846360
Why would a goddess that would even play with the idea than even have paladins of chastity?

Sounds like an obvious ploy by daemons. Try harder heretic.

In fact, why would a paladin even give a damn about the churches moral exteriors? He's a fucking paladin. He just has to be lawful good. Whatever the fuck that means.

Or you know... not be an autist using alignments as anything more than a generic way to describe their attitude.

You wouldn't ask a monk or druid these sorts of stupid questions despite their connections to the divine.

>> No.38853464

What's with all the "Paladin does x with his goddess/deity threads" nowadays?

>> No.38853580

>>38853049
makes sense

>> No.38854070

>>38853464
im guessing with the paladin changes in 5e falling is becoming less and less a matter on peoples minds as people start to (unfortunately) switch to it

>> No.38854092

>>38846360
If the Vow of Chastity is pledging their virginity to their god, their virginity is their god's to do as it will. If asked by the goddess to have sex with them, they can do so with no repercussions, and in fact their faith and power would be changed and stronger, such a divine experience will fundamentally shift the one who experiences it.

>> No.38854202

>>38846598
>what if your a paladin of the sex god
In that case taking an oath of chastity in the first place would probably have made you fall. Unless it's some kind of mormon procreation or harem lifestyle sex god.

>> No.38854233

>>38847313
Keep the purity of the divine blood, obviously.

>> No.38854368

>>38847687
Yeah, but in order to help them and turn them away from their lives.
Remember the story of casting the first stone? Everyone forgets that Jesus then told her, "and sin no more," afterwards.

>> No.38854430

>>38850427
Not the guy you replied to, but the word "Patriarchal" causes me to rage as well, and once a week I have to explain why. That theory treats all men as a single, organized, monolithic and malevolent group. You'd never put it in such terms of course, but that is always the form conclusions drawn from this theory take. Any shitty situation throughout history can be blamed on an organization of men, because for most of recorded history, organizations headed by men have implemented the majority of decisions. Nobody disputes that. The only addition Patriarchy theory seems to add is, "Women could do better but have been prevented from doing so". I'll grant you that many women could indeed do better, but the idea that men would choose to have other men in charge over women, if women campaigned as hard for the top jobs, is laughable. Patriarchy theory paints men as domineering aggressors who have done literally everything significant ever, and women as pure, morally perfect beings who have no responsibility for any current problem because they have never shaped our current state of affairs in any sway. You bet it makes me rage, but enough about your worldview.

To speak to a couple of the points you talked about, the early Israelites got most of their purity taboos from the Egyptians, who were matrilineal and often matriarchal as well. It seems far more likely that these taboos came from early medicine rather than spirituality (religion at the time of course often encompassed both). It's not like people particularly enjoy menstruation nowadays after all, and we have a clearer understanding of why it happens and specialized hygiene products. Women seem just as grossed out as men, though of course they're confronted with it more, so I fail to see how that is an example of institutionalized sexism

It also seems very strange to say that a system ruled by men would encourage celibacy among men, except perhaps in an "everything's taboo so everything's sexy" context.

>> No.38854942

>>38854430
Is this some kind of joke? There were hordes of men who had "women should have limited rights and be the property of men" at the center of their ideology. Fuck dude it was one of the reasons people though liberalism in the 17-19th century was bullshit because all those damn liberals talking about individual rights still treated women like subhuman trash. There were literal riots during the many french revolutions about this exact shit.

So yeah there were organizations of men who were domineering aggressors.

Egypt wasn't Matrilineal, atleast not for the vast majority of its history that we've come upon. There were very rare instances of Women coming to power (like Hatshepsut) but it was always because the only male heir was like 5 or something. Egyptians did value the mother's bloodline higher than most ancient peoples, admittedly (like how some pharoahs would marry royal or noble women to get a leg up on their equally high bloodline brothers so they could argue for being the next pharoah) but they didn't outright pass power down through women.

Your last point I don't really have anything against other than that patriarchal society doesn't mean the men still didn't vie for control over each other, too. The men in power would frequently set rules to weaken those below them and then flagrantly break the rules because who's gonna stop em?

>> No.38855142

>>38854430
If you are raging because of a word, maybe the problem is with your attitude, I'm sorry to say. The word "patriarchal" has nothing to do with it. I used it as a description of one atribute of said society, nothing more.

It is relevant to take in question that these societies are patriarchal because their approach to sex have a male gaze in position of hegemony. Men tend to identify easierly with male characters than with female ones, for example. We also tend to reach for cathegories when dealing with females (e. g. mother, wife, virgin, etc.) and, of course, the same happens with women the other way around. These are assertions about tendencies; to recognize their existence should not be perceived as overall attribution (of fault, in this case). Again, it is a matter of method: abandon the mechanicism of "if you are criticizing patriarchy you are attacking me" for a more clear and nuanced position.

>> No.38855172

>>38854942
one internet for you, sir/madam

>> No.38855300

>>38846360
>goddess chooses a virgin virile man to plow her
>he panicks
>he nuts all over her thigh
>well that ruins the ceremony

>> No.38855424
File: 131 KB, 428x271, stop it psion.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38855424

>>38846572

>> No.38855502
File: 20 KB, 436x333, pfffhahahaha.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38855502

>>38847115
Sorry, but I have to chime in to laugh at this.

>> No.38855527

>>38855300
Considering how these sorts of deities traditionally have the power to heal wounds and cure diseases and such, it seems likely she'd have sufficient power over mortal bodies to make him harden again with a touch, or somesuch trifling blessing. Goddesses are good at that.

>> No.38856184

>>38847115
This is all ridiculous. Sex has nothing to do with dignity. It often does but doesn't need to have anything to do with relationships. Paying for sex doesn't mean anyone is being dehumanized.

>> No.38856237
File: 712 KB, 240x2044, Guess Who Learned to Read.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38856237

Hey, guys!
What's going on in this thread?
Palutena told me about this site, and I've just learned to read, so I searched 'goddess' and found this...
...
...
...Never mind.
I... Uh...
Wow, look at the time.
(Sometimes I wish I COULD forget stuff like this.)

>> No.38856613
File: 572 KB, 768x1024, ad5370c4395f225bd127d22f6c48d322.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38856613

>not fucking a goddess

>> No.38858107

>>38846360
>What happens if a Paladin with an oath of chastity is asked by his patron goddess to sleep with her?
Obviously he needs to ask her permission

>> No.38858155

>>38846430
>She can release him from his oath of chastity.
What if she give permission for sex but forbids him to cum?

>> No.38859350

>>38858155
that's not a god that's a devil

>> No.38859495

>>38859350
>Your goddess orders you to sleep with her
>Punishes you for breaking your vow of chastity by cursing you to be unable to cum
>The next night she orders you to sleep with her again....

>> No.38859679

>>38859495
I sure wish more deities we giving their champions trials like this. But no, it's always go there and kill that.

>> No.38861073

I think this would actually be a very common occurrence for most gods, especially Ishatr.

>> No.38861317

>>38861073
I'd expect that most deities who would be in the habit of getting it on with favored followers wouldn't be the kind who ask celibacy of said followers. But then I'm not the most versed in mythology so maybe that's actually supposed to be common or something.

>> No.38865925

>>38846951
Who is this semen demon?

>> No.38866068
File: 211 KB, 298x349, This Post.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38866068

>>38847254
>ignoring intent
>thinking doing "good" makes one [Good]
Your consideration of the alignment system is meager.

>> No.38866496

>>38846360
Depends which sort of vow of chastity it is.

If it's a vow to remain untouched by worldly pleasures and temptations, then she's obviously a succubus here to corrupt me. The real goddess wouldn't try to put impure thoughts into my head.

If it's a vow to remain completely devoted to my patron goddess above all others, she's just elevating a symbolic relationship into an actual one. The purity of my holy oath will be unblemished.

tl;dr If I'm an ascetic holy man, no hanky panky. If I'm a guy-nun, it's all okay if the goddess says so.

>> No.38866755

>>38846360
Sleep next to her in your armor, you will be there to protect her if anything tries to get at her during the night.

>> No.38866765

>>38847036
Goddamn STEM majors.

>> No.38866823

>>38846360
The same patron goddess who allowed a vow of chastity in the first place?

I'm going to need a waiver signed in triplicate and notarized in at least 3 churches dedicated to said god.

>> No.38868627

>>38846424
>>38846360

This is one of the big reasons why people hate paladins. The DM just always has to be a fuckin' dick and throw these absurdly contrived and retarded situations at him, and the game stops as we now have to begin theology debate club: starring neckbeards.

Can't you just leave the goddamn holy warrior to smite evil in peace without having to give him stupid lol-u-fall situations??

>> No.38868628

>>38846360
Go ask Cu Chulainn

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